
From nobody Tue Oct  5 11:06:28 2021
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Subject: [sfc] Fwd: Second Call for Nominations
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Please, help the nomcom.
Yours,
Joel


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Second Call for Nominations
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2021 10:50:50 -0700
From: NomCom Chair 2021 <nomcom-chair-2021@ietf.org>
Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org
To: IETF Announcement List <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
CC: ietf@ietf.org

Hello IETF Community!

Only one week to go and we need everyone's HELP with nominations.
If you go to https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2021/nominate/ you will 
notice that:

       -    INT, TSV, OPS, and ART have only ONE accepted nomination so far
       -    Other positions are not that much better: 2 or 3 accepted 
nominations is            not a lot (TRUST, LLC, Routing, Security)
       -    Neither are 10 accepted nominations for 6 open IAB positions

Oh, and nominations close in one week: Monday October 11.

Please take some 10 minutes today (or make it a fun weekend assignment) 
to think about someone who would be a good candidate and nominate them 
using the above link. Of course, self-nominations are encouraged!

For full information, please refer to the previous Call for Nominations 
here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/ann/350147/


Thanks,

Gabriel Montenegro
IETF NomCom Chair 2021-22
nomcom-chair-2021 at ietf dot org

_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
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From nobody Wed Oct  6 20:36:06 2021
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Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-07.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) and Congestion Feedback Using the Network Service Header (NSH) and IPFIX
        Authors         : Donald E. Eastlake
                          Bob Briscoe
                          Yizhou Li
                          Andrew G. Malis
                          Xinpeng Wei
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-07.txt
	Pages           : 33
	Date            : 2021-10-06

Abstract:
   Explicit congestion notification (ECN) allows a forwarding element to
   notify downstream devices of the onset of congestion without having
   to drop packets. Coupled with a means to feed information about
   congestion back to upstream nodes, this can improve network
   efficiency through better congestion control, frequently without
   packet drops. This document specifies ECN and congestion feedback
   support within a Service Function Chaining (SFC) architecture domain
   through use of the Network Service Header (NSH, RFC 8300) and IP Flow
   Information Export (IPFIX, RFC 7011).



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support/

There is also an htmlized version available at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-07

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-07


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



From nobody Fri Oct  8 09:13:43 2021
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Active OAM for Service Function Chaining
        Authors         : Greg Mirsky
                          Wei Meng
                          Ting Ao
                          Kent Leung
                          Gyan Mishra
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
	Pages           : 37
	Date            : 2021-10-08

Abstract:
   A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a network is
   presented in this document.  Based on these requirements, an
   encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to detect
   and localize defects are described.

   This document updates RFC 8300.  Particularly, it updates the
   definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) (RFC
   8300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in the NSH.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/

There is also an HTML version available at:
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.html

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 09:19:05 -0700
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--000000000000a15f4405cdd9bd6b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear All,
following the discussion on the SFC WG mailing list and the direction from
the SFC WG Chairs, we've merged substantive parts
of draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency
and draft-ao-sfc-oam-return-path-specified with this draft where the base
functionality of the SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply is defined. The authors
greatly appreciate and welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions.
We're looking forward to the discussion that will help to progress this
document to the WG LC.

Regards,
Greg (on behalf of the authors).

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:13 AM
Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Cc: <sfc@ietf.org>



A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Active OAM for Service Function Chaining
        Authors         : Greg Mirsky
                          Wei Meng
                          Ting Ao
                          Kent Leung
                          Gyan Mishra
        Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
        Pages           : 37
        Date            : 2021-10-08

Abstract:
   A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a network is
   presented in this document.  Based on these requirements, an
   encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to detect
   and localize defects are described.

   This document updates RFC 8300.  Particularly, it updates the
   definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) (RFC
   8300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in the NSH.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/

There is also an HTML version available at:
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.html

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
sfc@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

--000000000000a15f4405cdd9bd6b
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>following =
the discussion on the SFC WG mailing list and the direction from the SFC WG=
 Chairs, we&#39;ve merged substantive parts of=C2=A0draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-c=
onsistency and=C2=A0draft-ao-sfc-oam-return-path-specified with this draft =
where the base functionality of the SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply is defined. =
The authors greatly appreciate and welcome your comments, questions, and su=
ggestions. We&#39;re looking forward to the discussion that will help to pr=
ogress this document to the WG LC.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><=
div>Greg (on behalf of the authors).<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br=
>From: <span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">i=
nternet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:13 AM=
<br>Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt<br>To:=
  &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a>&gt=
;<br>Cc:  &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br></div=
><br><br><br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.<br>
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.<=
br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 Active OAM for Service Function Chaining<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Greg=
 Mirsky<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wei Meng<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ting Ao<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Kent Leung<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan Mishra<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet=
f-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 37<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=
 2021-10-08<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, an=
d<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a netwo=
rk is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0presented in this document.=C2=A0 Based on these requirements,=
 an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to=
 detect<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and localize defects are described.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document updates RFC 8300.=C2=A0 Particularly, it updates=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) =
(RFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A08300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in t=
he NSH.<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra=
ft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/</a><br>
<br>
There is also an HTML version available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-1=
4.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/archive/i=
d/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.html</a><br>
<br>
A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am-14" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?ur=
l2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
<a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</div></div></div></div></div>

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Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-tlv-09.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Network Service Header Metadata Type 2 Variable-Length Context Headers
        Authors         : Yuehua Wei
                          Uri Elzur
                          Sumandra Majee
                          Carlos Pignataro
                          Donald E. Eastlake
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-tlv-09.txt
	Pages           : 13
	Date            : 2021-10-11

Abstract:
   Service Function Chaining (SFC) uses the Network Service Header (NSH)
   (RFC 8300) to steer and provide context Metadata (MD) with each
   packet.  Such Metadata can be of various Types including MD Type 2
   variable length context headers.  This document specifies several
   such context headers that can be used within a service function path.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-tlv/

There is also an htmlized version available at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-tlv-09

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-tlv-09


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2021 09:06:23 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmXEgt0QUWM1JofDJfDhEx7g8_Hyvq8kGKEhObf11Xt1=Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Med Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Cc: Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/GuuTi7v5zurtLpuEV93cRA2RyAU>
Subject: Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
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Hi Med,
thank you for your review and comments. Please find my notes in-lined below
tagged by GIM>>.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 7:54 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg, all,
>
>
>
> Please find below some quick comments about this version:
>
>
>
> (1)
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CWhile SFC Echo Request always traverses the SFP, it is directed =
to,
>
> the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent over an IP network.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> I=E2=80=99m not sure to get the intent here, especially that an SFP is st=
ill =E2=80=9Cover
> an IP network=E2=80=9D.
>
GIM>> We are pointing out that the Echo Request traverses SFP using NSH
while the Echo Reply is not. Do you think that explicitly referring to the
role of NSH helps to make it clearer:
OLD TEXT:
   While SFC Echo Request always traverses the SFP, it is directed to,
   the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent over an IP network.
NEW TEXT:
   While SFC Echo Request always traverses the SFP, it is directed to,
   using NSH, the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent over an IP
   network without NSH.

>
>
> I have the same concern with this one:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CThere are scenarios when it is beneficial to direct the responde=
r to
>
> use a path other than the IP network=E2=80=9C
>
GIM>> Would the following update make it clearer:
OLD TEXT:
   There are scenarios when it is beneficial to direct the responder to
   use a path other than the IP network.
NEW TEXT:
   In some cases, an operator might choose to direct the responder
   to send the Echo Reply with NSH over a particular SFP.

>
>
> (2) You may want align these two statements to avoid what may be perceive=
d
> as an internal inconsistency (or redundant requirements):
>
>
>
>       The Message Authentication Code (MAC) Context Header that is
> defined
>
>       in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity] MAY be used to protect the SFC
> Echo
>
>       Request's integrity when using the SFC Return Path TLV
>
>
>
> vs.
>
>
>
>       When the integrity protection for SFC active OAM, and SFC Echo
>
>       Request/Reply in particular, is required, it is RECOMMENDED to use
>
>       one of the Context Headers defined in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity].
>
GIM>> Thank you for catching this inconsistency. Would you agree that
s/MAY/SHOULD/ resolves it?

>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Greg Mirsky
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 8 octobre 2021 18:19
> *=C3=80 :* Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>;
> sfc-chairs@ietf.org
> *Objet :* [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> following the discussion on the SFC WG mailing list and the direction fro=
m
> the SFC WG Chairs, we've merged substantive parts
> of draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency
> and draft-ao-sfc-oam-return-path-specified with this draft where the base
> functionality of the SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply is defined. The authors
> greatly appreciate and welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions.
> We're looking forward to the discussion that will help to progress this
> document to the WG LC.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg (on behalf of the authors).
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Date: Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:13 AM
> Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> Cc: <sfc@ietf.org>
>
>
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF=
.
>
>         Title           : Active OAM for Service Function Chaining
>         Authors         : Greg Mirsky
>                           Wei Meng
>                           Ting Ao
>                           Kent Leung
>                           Gyan Mishra
>         Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
>         Pages           : 37
>         Date            : 2021-10-08
>
> Abstract:
>    A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a network is
>    presented in this document.  Based on these requirements, an
>    encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to detect
>    and localize defects are described.
>
>    This document updates RFC 8300.  Particularly, it updates the
>    definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) (RFC
>    8300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in the NSH.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/
>
> There is also an HTML version available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.html
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14
>
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div di=
r=3D"ltr">Hi Med,<div>thank you for your review and comments. Please find m=
y notes in-lined below tagged by GIM&gt;&gt;.</div><div><br></div><div>Rega=
rds,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"l=
tr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 7:54 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-4107359477003762926WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;,serif">Hi Greg, all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">Please find below some quick comments a=
bout this version:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">(1)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">=E2=80=9CWhile SFC Echo Request always =
traverses the SFP, it is directed to,=C2=A0=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">the corresponding Echo Reply usually is=
 sent over an IP network.=E2=80=9D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">I=E2=80=99m not sure to get the intent =
here, especially that an SFP is still =E2=80=9Cover an IP network=E2=80=9D.=
</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; We are pointing out th=
at the Echo Request traverses SFP using NSH while the Echo Reply is not. Do=
 you think that explicitly referring=C2=A0to the role of NSH helps to make =
it clearer:</div><div>OLD TEXT:</div><div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0While SFC Echo =
Request always traverses the SFP, it is directed to,</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent over an IP network.</div></=
div><div>NEW TEXT:</div><div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0While SFC Echo Request alway=
s traverses the SFP, it is directed to,</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0using NSH, t=
he corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent over an IP</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0network without NSH.</div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div class=
=3D"gmail-m_-4107359477003762926WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,=
serif">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">I have the same concern with this one:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">=E2=80=9CThere are scenarios when it is=
 beneficial to direct the responder to=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">use a path other than the IP network=E2=
=80=9C</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Would the follow=
ing update make it clearer:</div><div>OLD TEXT:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Ther=
e are scenarios when it is beneficial to direct the responder to</div><div>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0use a path other than the IP network.=C2=A0</div><div>NEW TEXT=
:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0In some cases, an operator might choose to direct =
the responder</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0to send the Echo Reply with NSH over a=
 particular SFP.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><di=
v lang=3D"FR" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-4=
107359477003762926WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif"><u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">(2) You may want align these two statem=
ents to avoid what may be perceived as an internal inconsistency (or redund=
ant requirements):
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The Mess=
age Authentication Code (MAC) Context Header that is defined=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 in [I-D.=
ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity] MAY be used to protect the SFC Echo=C2=A0=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Request&=
#39;s integrity when using the SFC Return Path TLV<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">vs.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 When the=
 integrity protection for SFC active OAM, and SFC Echo
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Request/=
Reply in particular, is required, it is RECOMMENDED to use
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 one of t=
he Context Headers defined in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity].</span></p></div=
></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you for catching this inconsiste=
ncy. Would you agree that s/MAY/SHOULD/ resolves it?=C2=A0</div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"FR" style=3D"overflow-w=
rap: break-word;"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-4107359477003762926WordSection1"><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;,serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>De la part d=
e</b> Greg Mirsky<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> vendredi 8 octobre 2021 18:19<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> Service Function Chaining IETF list &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto=
:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-chairs@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-1=
4.txt<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear All,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">following the discussion on the SFC WG mailing list =
and the direction from the SFC WG Chairs, we&#39;ve merged substantive part=
s of=C2=A0draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency and=C2=A0draft-ao-sfc-oam-retur=
n-path-specified with this draft where the base
 functionality of the SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply is defined. The authors gr=
eatly appreciate and welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions. We&=
#39;re looking forward to the discussion that will help to progress this do=
cument to the WG LC.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">Greg (on behalf of the =
authors).<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>
From: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">int=
ernet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Date: Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:13 AM<br>
Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt<br>
To: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i-d-anno=
unce@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&=
gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.<br>
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.<=
br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 Active OAM for Service Function Chaining<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Greg=
 Mirsky<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wei Meng<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ting Ao<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Kent Leung<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan Mishra<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet=
f-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 37<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=
 2021-10-08<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, an=
d<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a netwo=
rk is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0presented in this document.=C2=A0 Based on these requirements,=
 an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to=
 detect<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and localize defects are described.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document updates RFC 8300.=C2=A0 Particularly, it updates=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) =
(RFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A08300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in t=
he NSH.<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/=
" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-l=
ayer-oam/</a><br>
<br>
There is also an HTML version available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-1=
4.html" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-mu=
lti-layer-oam-14.html</a><br>
<br>
A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am-14" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc=
-multi-layer-oam-14</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
<a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" target=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp=
.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
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</pre></div>

</blockquote></div></div></div></div></div>

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Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-15.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Active OAM for Service Function Chaining
        Authors         : Greg Mirsky
                          Wei Meng
                          Ting Ao
                          Kent Leung
                          Gyan Mishra
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-15.txt
	Pages           : 37
	Date            : 2021-10-15

Abstract:
   A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a network is
   presented in this document.  Based on these requirements, an
   encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to detect
   and localize defects are described.

   This document updates RFC 8300.  Particularly, it updates the
   definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) (RFC
   8300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in the NSH.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/

There is also an HTML version available at:
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-15.html

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-15


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
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To: Med Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
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--000000000000bd635005ce69d3af
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Hi Med,
thank you for your quick response. I've modified the text according to your
suggestions and uploaded the new version.

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 9:57 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Please see inline.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 15 octobre 2021 18:06
> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> *Cc :* Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>;
> sfc-chairs@ietf.org
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.tx=
t
>
>
>
> Hi Med,
>
> thank you for your review and comments. Please find my notes in-lined
> below tagged by GIM>>.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 7:54 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg, all,
>
>
>
> Please find below some quick comments about this version:
>
>
>
> (1)
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CWhile SFC Echo Request always traverses the SFP, it is directed =
to,
>
> the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent over an IP network.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> I=E2=80=99m not sure to get the intent here, especially that an SFP is st=
ill =E2=80=9Cover
> an IP network=E2=80=9D.
>
> GIM>> We are pointing out that the Echo Request traverses SFP using NSH
> while the Echo Reply is not. Do you think that explicitly referring to th=
e
> role of NSH helps to make it clearer:
>
> OLD TEXT:
>
>    While SFC Echo Request always traverses the SFP, it is directed to,
>
>    the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent over an IP network.
>
> NEW TEXT:
>
>    While SFC Echo Request always traverses the SFP, it is directed to,
>
>    using NSH, the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent over an IP
>
>    network without NSH.
>
>
>
> *[Med] I would just delete =E2=80=9Cover an IP network=E2=80=9D from the =
NEW text. Thanks.
> *
>
>
>
>
>
> I have the same concern with this one:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CThere are scenarios when it is beneficial to direct the responde=
r to
>
> use a path other than the IP network=E2=80=9C
>
> GIM>> Would the following update make it clearer:
>
> OLD TEXT:
>
>    There are scenarios when it is beneficial to direct the responder to
>
>    use a path other than the IP network.
>
> NEW TEXT:
>
>    In some cases, an operator might choose to direct the responder
>
>    to send the Echo Reply with NSH over a particular SFP.
>
>
>
> *[Med] This is better, thanks. *
>
>
>
> (2) You may want align these two statements to avoid what may be perceive=
d
> as an internal inconsistency (or redundant requirements):
>
>
>
>       The Message Authentication Code (MAC) Context Header that is
> defined
>
>       in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity] MAY be used to protect the SFC
> Echo
>
>       Request's integrity when using the SFC Return Path TLV
>
>
>
> vs.
>
>
>
>       When the integrity protection for SFC active OAM, and SFC Echo
>
>       Request/Reply in particular, is required, it is RECOMMENDED to use
>
>       one of the Context Headers defined in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity].
>
> GIM>> Thank you for catching this inconsistency. Would you agree that
> s/MAY/SHOULD/ resolves it?
>
> *[Med] Yes=E2=80=A6 but I would just maintain the one in the Security
> Considerations Section.  *
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Greg Mirsky
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 8 octobre 2021 18:19
> *=C3=80 :* Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>;
> sfc-chairs@ietf.org
> *Objet :* [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> following the discussion on the SFC WG mailing list and the direction fro=
m
> the SFC WG Chairs, we've merged substantive parts
> of draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency
> and draft-ao-sfc-oam-return-path-specified with this draft where the base
> functionality of the SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply is defined. The authors
> greatly appreciate and welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions.
> We're looking forward to the discussion that will help to progress this
> document to the WG LC.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg (on behalf of the authors).
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Date: Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:13 AM
> Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> Cc: <sfc@ietf.org>
>
>
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF=
.
>
>         Title           : Active OAM for Service Function Chaining
>         Authors         : Greg Mirsky
>                           Wei Meng
>                           Ting Ao
>                           Kent Leung
>                           Gyan Mishra
>         Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
>         Pages           : 37
>         Date            : 2021-10-08
>
> Abstract:
>    A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a network is
>    presented in this document.  Based on these requirements, an
>    encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to detect
>    and localize defects are described.
>
>    This document updates RFC 8300.  Particularly, it updates the
>    definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) (RFC
>    8300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in the NSH.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/
>
> There is also an HTML version available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.html
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14
>
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid=
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>
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o=
u falsifie. Merci.
>
>
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i=
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>
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
>
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de=
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>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid=
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> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o=
u falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i=
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> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de=
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--000000000000bd635005ce69d3af
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Med,<div>thank you for your quick response. I&#39;ve mo=
dified the text according to your suggestions and uploaded the new version.=
</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Oct 15, 2021=
 at 9:57 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.bou=
cadair@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_9140948596266701729WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Greg,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Please see inline.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:g=
regimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; <br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> vendredi 15 octobre 2021 18:06<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:moha=
med.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a=
>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> Service Function Chaining IETF list &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc=
-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-chairs@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am-14.txt<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Med,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your review and comments. Please find =
my notes in-lined below tagged by GIM&gt;&gt;.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 7:54 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Greg, all,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Please find below some quick comments about t=
his version:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">(1)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=E2=80=9CWhile SFC Echo Request always traver=
ses the SFP, it is directed to,=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent =
over an IP network.=E2=80=9D</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">I=E2=80=99m not sure to get the intent here, =
especially that an SFP is still =E2=80=9Cover an IP network=E2=80=9D.</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; We are pointing out that the Echo Reques=
t traverses SFP using NSH while the Echo Reply is not. Do you think that ex=
plicitly referring=C2=A0to the role of NSH helps to make it clearer:<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">OLD TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0While SFC Echo Request always traverses=
 the SFP, it is directed to,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0the corresponding Echo Reply usually is=
 sent over an IP network.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NEW TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0While SFC Echo Request always traverses=
 the SFP, it is directed to,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0using NSH, the corresponding Echo Reply=
 usually is sent over an IP<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0network without NSH.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">[Med] I would just delete =E2=80=9Cover=
 an IP network=E2=80=9D from the NEW text. Thanks.
<u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">I have the same concern with this one:
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=E2=80=9CThere are scenarios when it is benef=
icial to direct the responder to=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">use a path other than the IP network=E2=80=9C=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; Would the following update make it clear=
er:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">OLD TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0There are scenarios when it is benefici=
al to direct the responder to<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0use a path other than the IP network.=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NEW TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0In some cases, an operator might choose=
 to direct the responder<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0to send the Echo Reply with NSH over a =
particular SFP.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">[Med] This is better, thanks.
</span></i></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">(2) You may want align these two statements t=
o avoid what may be perceived as an internal inconsistency (or
 redundant requirements): </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The Message Au=
thentication Code (MAC) Context Header that is defined=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 in [I-D.ietf-s=
fc-nsh-integrity] MAY be used to protect the SFC Echo=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Request&#39;s =
integrity when using the SFC Return Path TLV</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">vs.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 When the integ=
rity protection for SFC active OAM, and SFC Echo
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Request/Reply =
in particular, is required, it is RECOMMENDED to use
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 one of the Con=
text Headers defined in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity].</span><u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you for catching this inconsistenc=
y. Would you agree that s/MAY/SHOULD/ resolves it?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">[Med] Yes=E2=80=A6 but I would just mai=
ntain the one in the Security Considerations Section. =C2=A0</span></i></b>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&=
quot;"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Med</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>De la part de</b> Greg Mirsky<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> vendredi 8 octobre 2021 18:19<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> Service Function Chaining IETF list &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-chairs@ietf.or=
g</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-1=
4.txt<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear All,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">following the discussion on the SFC WG mailing list =
and the direction from the SFC WG Chairs, we&#39;ve merged substantive part=
s of=C2=A0draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency and=C2=A0draft-ao-sfc-oam-retur=
n-path-specified
 with this draft where the base functionality of the SFC NSH Echo Request/R=
eply is defined. The authors greatly appreciate and welcome your comments, =
questions, and suggestions. We&#39;re looking forward to the discussion tha=
t will help to progress this document
 to the WG LC.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">Greg (on behalf of the =
authors).<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>
From: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">int=
ernet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Date: Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:13 AM<br>
Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt<br>
To: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i-d-anno=
unce@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&=
gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.<br>
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.<=
br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 Active OAM for Service Function Chaining<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Greg=
 Mirsky<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wei Meng<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ting Ao<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Kent Leung<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan Mishra<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet=
f-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 37<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=
 2021-10-08<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, an=
d<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a netwo=
rk is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0presented in this document.=C2=A0 Based on these requirements,=
 an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to=
 detect<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and localize defects are described.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document updates RFC 8300.=C2=A0 Particularly, it updates=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) =
(RFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A08300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in t=
he NSH.<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/=
" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-l=
ayer-oam/</a><br>
<br>
There is also an HTML version available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-1=
4.html" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-mu=
lti-layer-oam-14.html</a><br>
<br>
A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am-14" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc=
-multi-layer-oam-14</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
<a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" target=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp=
.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les me=
ssages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,<u></u><u></u></pr=
e>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre>
<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Thank you.<u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</pre></div>

</blockquote></div>

--000000000000bd635005ce69d3af--


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 09:15:19 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmVx+-dmhgw+qzbPg54o4wwvrSFrFT3_YdCA8D4h8fd1-g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Med Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Cc: "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>, Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
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Hi Med,
thank you for pointing that out to me. Attached is the diff highlighting
the proposed update. I greatly appreciate your feedback on the proposed
change.

Regards,
Greg

On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 10:26 PM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> There is still one statement that was not removed, though:
>
>
>
> (6.6.1):
>
>
>
>    The initiator of CVReq MAY require the collected information in the
>
>    CVRep be sent in the integrity-protected mode using the MAC Context
>
>    Header, defined in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity].
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Greg Mirsky
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 15 octobre 2021 22:13
> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> *Cc :* sfc-chairs@ietf.org; Service Function Chaining IETF list <
> sfc@ietf.org>
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.tx=
t
>
>
>
> Hi Med,
>
> thank you for your quick response. I've modified the text according to
> your suggestions and uploaded the new version.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 9:57 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Please see inline.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 15 octobre 2021 18:06
> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> *Cc :* Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>;
> sfc-chairs@ietf.org
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.tx=
t
>
>
>
> Hi Med,
>
> thank you for your review and comments. Please find my notes in-lined
> below tagged by GIM>>.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 7:54 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg, all,
>
>
>
> Please find below some quick comments about this version:
>
>
>
> (1)
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CWhile SFC Echo Request always traverses the SFP, it is directed =
to,
>
> the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent over an IP network.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> I=E2=80=99m not sure to get the intent here, especially that an SFP is st=
ill =E2=80=9Cover
> an IP network=E2=80=9D.
>
> GIM>> We are pointing out that the Echo Request traverses SFP using NSH
> while the Echo Reply is not. Do you think that explicitly referring to th=
e
> role of NSH helps to make it clearer:
>
> OLD TEXT:
>
>    While SFC Echo Request always traverses the SFP, it is directed to,
>
>    the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent over an IP network.
>
> NEW TEXT:
>
>    While SFC Echo Request always traverses the SFP, it is directed to,
>
>    using NSH, the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent over an IP
>
>    network without NSH.
>
>
>
> *[Med] I would just delete =E2=80=9Cover an IP network=E2=80=9D from the =
NEW text. Thanks.
> *
>
>
>
>
>
> I have the same concern with this one:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CThere are scenarios when it is beneficial to direct the responde=
r to
>
> use a path other than the IP network=E2=80=9C
>
> GIM>> Would the following update make it clearer:
>
> OLD TEXT:
>
>    There are scenarios when it is beneficial to direct the responder to
>
>    use a path other than the IP network.
>
> NEW TEXT:
>
>    In some cases, an operator might choose to direct the responder
>
>    to send the Echo Reply with NSH over a particular SFP.
>
>
>
> *[Med] This is better, thanks. *
>
>
>
> (2) You may want align these two statements to avoid what may be perceive=
d
> as an internal inconsistency (or redundant requirements):
>
>
>
>       The Message Authentication Code (MAC) Context Header that is
> defined
>
>       in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity] MAY be used to protect the SFC
> Echo
>
>       Request's integrity when using the SFC Return Path TLV
>
>
>
> vs.
>
>
>
>       When the integrity protection for SFC active OAM, and SFC Echo
>
>       Request/Reply in particular, is required, it is RECOMMENDED to use
>
>       one of the Context Headers defined in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity].
>
> GIM>> Thank you for catching this inconsistency. Would you agree that
> s/MAY/SHOULD/ resolves it?
>
> *[Med] Yes=E2=80=A6 but I would just maintain the one in the Security
> Considerations Section.  *
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Greg Mirsky
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 8 octobre 2021 18:19
> *=C3=80 :* Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>;
> sfc-chairs@ietf.org
> *Objet :* [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> following the discussion on the SFC WG mailing list and the direction fro=
m
> the SFC WG Chairs, we've merged substantive parts
> of draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency
> and draft-ao-sfc-oam-return-path-specified with this draft where the base
> functionality of the SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply is defined. The authors
> greatly appreciate and welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions.
> We're looking forward to the discussion that will help to progress this
> document to the WG LC.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg (on behalf of the authors).
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Date: Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:13 AM
> Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> Cc: <sfc@ietf.org>
>
>
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF=
.
>
>         Title           : Active OAM for Service Function Chaining
>         Authors         : Greg Mirsky
>                           Wei Meng
>                           Ting Ao
>                           Kent Leung
>                           Gyan Mishra
>         Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
>         Pages           : 37
>         Date            : 2021-10-08
>
> Abstract:
>    A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a network is
>    presented in this document.  Based on these requirements, an
>    encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to detect
>    and localize defects are described.
>
>    This document updates RFC 8300.  Particularly, it updates the
>    definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) (RFC
>    8300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in the NSH.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/
>
> There is also an HTML version available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.html
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14
>
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
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>
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> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
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>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Med,<div>thank you for pointing that out to me. Attache=
d is the diff highlighting the=C2=A0proposed update. I greatly appreciate y=
our feedback on the proposed change.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div=
><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 10:26 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:moha=
med.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_7589529853677761043WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Thank you.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">There is still one statement that was not rem=
oved, though:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">(6.6.1):<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 The initiator of CVReq MAY requi=
re the collected information in the<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 CVRep be sent in the integrity-p=
rotected mode using the MAC Context<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Header, defined in [I-D.ietf-sfc=
-nsh-integrity].
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>De la part d=
e</b> Greg Mirsky<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> vendredi 15 octobre 2021 22:13<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:moha=
med.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a=
>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
fc-chairs@ietf.org</a>; Service Function Chaining IETF list &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am-14.txt<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Med,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your quick response. I&#39;ve modified=
 the text according to your suggestions and uploaded the new version.<u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 9:57 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Greg,
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Please see inline.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Med</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:g=
regimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> vendredi 15 octobre 2021 18:06<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:moha=
med.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a=
>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> Service Function Chaining IETF list &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-chairs@ietf.or=
g</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am-14.txt<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Med,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your review and comments. Please find =
my notes in-lined below tagged by GIM&gt;&gt;.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 7:54 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Greg, all,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Please find below some quick comments about t=
his version:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">(1)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=E2=80=9CWhile SFC Echo Request always traver=
ses the SFP, it is directed to,=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent =
over an IP network.=E2=80=9D</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">I=E2=80=99m not sure to get the intent here, =
especially that an SFP is still =E2=80=9Cover an IP network=E2=80=9D.</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; We are pointing out that the Echo Reques=
t traverses SFP using NSH while the Echo Reply is not. Do you think that ex=
plicitly referring=C2=A0to the role of NSH helps to make it clearer:<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">OLD TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0While SFC Echo Request always traverses=
 the SFP, it is directed to,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0the corresponding Echo Reply usually is=
 sent over an IP network.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NEW TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0While SFC Echo Request always traverses=
 the SFP, it is directed to,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0using NSH, the corresponding Echo Reply=
 usually is sent over an IP<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0network without NSH.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">[Med] I would just delete =E2=80=9Cover=
 an IP network=E2=80=9D from the NEW text. Thanks.
</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">I have the same concern with this one:
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=E2=80=9CThere are scenarios when it is benef=
icial to direct the responder to=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">use a path other than the IP network=E2=80=9C=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; Would the following update make it clear=
er:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">OLD TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0There are scenarios when it is benefici=
al to direct the responder to<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0use a path other than the IP network.=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NEW TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0In some cases, an operator might choose=
 to direct the responder<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0to send the Echo Reply with NSH over a =
particular SFP.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">[Med] This is better, thanks.
</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">(2) You may want align these two statements t=
o avoid what may be perceived as an internal inconsistency (or
 redundant requirements): </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The Message Au=
thentication Code (MAC) Context Header that is defined=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 in [I-D.ietf-s=
fc-nsh-integrity] MAY be used to protect the SFC Echo=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Request&#39;s =
integrity when using the SFC Return Path TLV</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">vs.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 When the integ=
rity protection for SFC active OAM, and SFC Echo
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Request/Reply =
in particular, is required, it is RECOMMENDED to use
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 one of the Con=
text Headers defined in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity].</span><u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you for catching this inconsistenc=
y. Would you agree that s/MAY/SHOULD/ resolves it?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">[Med] Yes=E2=80=A6 but I would just mai=
ntain the one in the Security Considerations Section. =C2=A0</span></i></b>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Med</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>De la part de</b> Greg Mirsky<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> vendredi 8 octobre 2021 18:19<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> Service Function Chaining IETF list &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-chairs@ietf.or=
g</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-1=
4.txt<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear All,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">following the discussion on the SFC WG mailing list =
and the direction from the SFC WG Chairs, we&#39;ve merged substantive part=
s of=C2=A0draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency and=C2=A0draft-ao-sfc-oam-retur=
n-path-specified
 with this draft where the base functionality of the SFC NSH Echo Request/R=
eply is defined. The authors greatly appreciate and welcome your comments, =
questions, and suggestions. We&#39;re looking forward to the discussion tha=
t will help to progress this document
 to the WG LC.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">Greg (on behalf of the =
authors).<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>
From: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">int=
ernet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Date: Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:13 AM<br>
Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt<br>
To: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i-d-anno=
unce@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&=
gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.<br>
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.<=
br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 Active OAM for Service Function Chaining<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Greg=
 Mirsky<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wei Meng<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ting Ao<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Kent Leung<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan Mishra<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet=
f-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 37<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=
 2021-10-08<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, an=
d<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a netwo=
rk is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0presented in this document.=C2=A0 Based on these requirements,=
 an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to=
 detect<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and localize defects are described.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document updates RFC 8300.=C2=A0 Particularly, it updates=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) =
(RFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A08300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in t=
he NSH.<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/=
" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-l=
ayer-oam/</a><br>
<br>
There is also an HTML version available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-1=
4.html" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-mu=
lti-layer-oam-14.html</a><br>
<br>
A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am-14" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc=
-multi-layer-oam-14</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
<a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" target=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp=
.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les me=
ssages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,<u></u><u></u></pr=
e>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Thank you.<u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les me=
ssages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,<u></u><u></u></pr=
e>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre>
<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Thank you.<u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</pre></div>

</blockquote></div>

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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/reeHpWcCUy9fNIp1TP2gETkSL60>
Subject: Re: [sfc] [Last-Call] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-08
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Joel, I agree with your analysis.

Franck, I don't think it is reasonable to expect the wg to produce 
actionable requirements on the security and/or operational aspects of 
such type of solution. I sadly don't have more useful suggestions than 
to either work with cfrg to come up with a solution which would work in 
domains where sfc is typically used or design a solution based on 
Christian's suggestion, but with possibly a limited scope of applicability.

I suspect that any of these changes will require another round of review 
by the WG.

-m

Le 2021-09-28 à 19:15, Joel M. Halpern a écrit :
> (Keeping the SFC group on copy in hopes they will prove me wrong.)
> 
> I am not sure what to recommend here.  Neither Jim nor I are in a 
> posiition to mediate a dispute about cryptography.
> The document got through WG last call with barely sufficient support. 
> The odds of getting meaningful feadback if we ask the WG about the 
> problem scope are very low.   We have had to push people to get enough 
> response to things on the charter that we commited to.
> 
> If the proposed document does not work as written, then we shouldn't 
> progress it in its current form.  As ntoed, getting meaningful WG 
> discussion of changes seems unlikely.
> 
> Martin, if you have a suggestion, Jim and I (and presumably the WG) are 
> listening.
> 
> Yours,
> Joel
> 
> On 9/28/2021 11:12 AM, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) wrote:
>> Hi Christian,
>>
>> Thanks for the follow up – and the suggestion of an alternate 
>> approach. IMHO – and I checked with other authors, who voiced similar 
>> views – it would be best to follow your guidance and have the working 
>> group crispen up the requirements as well as assumptions for the 
>> operational environment and only then discuss and evaluate solution 
>> approaches.
>>
>> Depending on the target set of requirements and the operational 
>> environment, the WGcanchoose an appropriate approach with guidance 
>> fromCFRG. That could be, per what you suggest below, something much 
>> simpler from a control plane perspective - avoiding the complexities 
>> of SSS  – with a data-plane as simple as what the draft currently 
>> suggests. That could also be another, yet to be determined approach, 
>> such as the approach based on nested encryption that the WG discussed 
>> before, or an SSS based approach with a polynomial per packet, etc. 
>> Hopefully we’ll get it right the next time.
>>
>> Martin, Jim, Joel – any thoughts and guidance from your end, on 
>> whether the document should be handed back to the working group?
>>
>> Thanks again, Frank
>>
>> *From:*Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, 25 September 2021 16:42
>> *To:* Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com>; secdir@ietf.org
>> *Cc:* shwetha.bhandari@gmail.com; last-call@ietf.org; Youell, Stephen 
>> <stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com>; sfc@ietf.org; 
>> draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.all@ietf.org; krishna.sashank@gmail.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [Last-Call] Secdir last call review of 
>> draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-08
>>
>> On 9/25/2021 4:20 AM, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) wrote:
>>
>>     Hi Christian,
>>
>>     Thanks for the follow-up. Please see below.
>>
>>         -----Original Message-----
>>
>>         From: Christian Huitema<huitema@huitema.net>  
>> <mailto:huitema@huitema.net>
>>
>>         Sent: Friday, 24 September 2021 17:16
>>
>>         To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne)<fbrockne@cisco.com>  
>> <mailto:fbrockne@cisco.com>;secdir@ietf.org  <mailto:secdir@ietf.org>
>>
>>         Cc:shwetha.bhandari@gmail.com  
>> <mailto:shwetha.bhandari@gmail.com>;last-call@ietf.org  
>> <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>; Youell, Stephen
>>
>>         <stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com>  
>> <mailto:stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com>;sfc@ietf.org  
>> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-
>>
>>         transit.all@ietf.org  
>> <mailto:transit.all@ietf.org>;krishna.sashank@gmail.com  
>> <mailto:krishna.sashank@gmail.com>
>>
>>         Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Secdir last call review of 
>> draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-
>>
>>         08
>>
>>         On 9/24/2021 1:39 AM, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) wrote:
>>
>>             Hi Christian,
>>
>>             Thanks a lot for the detailed follow-up. Please see inline.
>>
>>                 -----Original Message-----
>>
>>                 From: Christian Huitema<huitema@huitema.net>  
>> <mailto:huitema@huitema.net>
>>
>>                 Sent: Thursday, 23 September 2021 22:13
>>
>>                 To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne)<fbrockne@cisco.com>  
>> <mailto:fbrockne@cisco.com>;secdir@ietf.org  <mailto:secdir@ietf.org>
>>
>>                 Cc:shwetha.bhandari@gmail.com  
>> <mailto:shwetha.bhandari@gmail.com>;last-call@ietf.org  
>> <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>; Youell, Stephen
>>
>>                 <stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com>  
>> <mailto:stephen.youell@jpmorgan.com>;sfc@ietf.org  
>> <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-
>>
>>                 transit.all@ietf.org  <mailto:transit.all@ietf.org>
>>
>>                 Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Secdir last call review of
>>
>>                 draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-
>>
>>                 08
>>
>>                 On 9/23/2021 12:31 PM, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) wrote:
>>
>>                     Hi Christian,
>>
>>                     Thanks a lot for your detailed review. Please see 
>> inline.
>>
>>                         -----Original Message-----
>>
>>                         From: Christian Huitema via 
>> Datatracker<noreply@ietf.org>  <mailto:noreply@ietf.org>
>>
>>                         Sent: Monday, 20 September 2021 05:48
>>
>>                         To:secdir@ietf.org  <mailto:secdir@ietf.org>
>>
>>                         
>> Cc:draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.all@ietf.org  
>> <mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit.all@ietf.org>;
>>
>>                         last-call@ietf.org  
>> <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>;sfc@ietf.org  <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>>
>>                         Subject: Secdir last call review of
>>
>>                         draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-08
>>
>>                         Reviewer: Christian Huitema
>>
>>                         Review result: Serious Issues
>>
>>                         I have reviewed this document as part of the 
>> security directorate's
>>
>>                         ongoing effort to review all IETF documents 
>> being processed by the
>>
>>                         IESG.  These comments were written primarily 
>> for the benefit of the
>>
>>                         security
>>
>>                 area directors.
>>
>>                         Document editors and WG chairs should treat 
>> these comments just
>>
>>                         like any other last call comments.
>>
>>                         This document proposes a security mechanism to 
>> prove that traffic
>>
>>                         transited through all specified nodes in a 
>> path. The mechanism
>>
>>                         works by adding a short option to each packet 
>> for which transit
>>
>>                         shall be verified. The option consists of a 
>> random number set by
>>
>>                         the originator of the packet, and a sum field 
>> to which each transit
>>
>>                         node adds a value depending on public 
>> parameters, on the random
>>
>>                         number and on secrets held by the node. The 
>> destination has access
>>
>>                         to all the secrets held by the nodes on the 
>> path, and can verify
>>
>>                         whether or not the final sum corresponds to 
>> the sum of expected
>>
>>                         values. The proposed size
>>
>>                 of the random number and the sum field is 64 bits.
>>
>>                         In the paragraph above, I described the 
>> mechanism without
>>
>>                         mentioning the algorithm used to compute these 
>> 64 bit numbers. The
>>
>>                         64 bit size is obviously a
>>
>>                         concern: for cryptographic applications, 64 
>> bits is not a large
>>
>>                         number, and that might be a weakness whatever 
>> the proposed algorithm.
>>
>>                         The actual algorithm appears to be a bespoke 
>> derivation of Shamir's
>>
>>                         Secret Sharing algorithm (SSS). In other word, 
>> it is a case of
>>
>>                         "inventing your
>>
>>                 own crypto".
>>
>>                     ...FB: SSS is a well know algorithm and
>>
>>                     draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit does not
>>
>>                 modify it.
>>
>>                     All draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit does is to 
>> operationalize the
>>
>>                     SSS algorithm
>>
>>                 for the proof of transit use case.
>>
>>                     Also note that the draft does not require the use 
>> of 64 bit numbers.
>>
>>                     Nor does draft require a minimum time between 
>> changing the secrets.
>>
>>                     What particular attack are you concerned about 
>> where 64 bit numbers
>>
>>                     are a
>>
>>                 concern?
>>
>>                         SSS relies on the representation of 
>> polynomials as a sum of
>>
>>                         Lagrange Basis Polynomials. Each of the 
>> participating nodes holds a
>>
>>                         share of the secret represented by a point on 
>> the polynomial curve.
>>
>>                         A polynomial of degree K on the field of 
>> integers modulo a prime
>>
>>                         number N can only be revealed if at list K+1 
>> participants reveal
>>
>>                         the value of their point. The safety of the 
>> algorithm relies on the
>>
>>                         size of the number N and on the fact that the 
>> secret shall be revealed only
>>
>>         once.
>>
>>                         But the algorithm does not use SSS directly, 
>> so it deserves its own
>>
>>                         security
>>
>>                 analysis instead of relying simply on Shamir's work.
>>
>>                         The proposed algorithm uses two polynomials of 
>> degree K for a path
>>
>>                         containing
>>
>>                         K+1 nodes, on a field defined by a prime 
>> number N of 64 bits. One
>>
>>                         K+of the
>>
>>                         polynomial, POLY-1, is secret, and only fully 
>> known by the verifying node.
>>
>>                         The other, POLY-2 is public, with the constant 
>> coefficient set at a
>>
>>                         random value RND for each packet.
>>
>>                         For each packet, the goal is compute the value 
>> of POLY-1 plus
>>
>>                         POLY-2 at the point 0 -- that is, the constant 
>> coefficient of
>>
>>                         POLY-3 = POLY-1 + POLY-
>>
>>                 2.
>>
>>                         Without going in too much details, one can 
>> observe that the
>>
>>                         constant coefficient of POLY-3 is equal to the 
>> sum of the constant
>>
>>                         coefficients of POLY-1 and POLY-2, and that 
>> the constant
>>
>>                         coefficient of POLY-2 is the value RND present 
>> in each packet. In
>>
>>                         the example given in section 3.3.2, the 
>> numbers are computed modulo
>>
>>                         53, the constant coefficient of POLY-1 is 10, 
>> and the value RND is
>>
>>                         45. The final sum  CML is indeed
>>
>>                         10 + 45 = 2 mod 53.
>>
>>                         To me, this appears as a serious weakness in 
>> the algorithm. If an
>>
>>                         adversary can observe the value RND and CML 
>> for a first packet, it
>>
>>                         can retrieve the constant coefficient of 
>> POLY-1, and thus can
>>
>>                         predict the value of CML for any other packet. 
>> That does not seem very
>>
>>         secure.
>>
>>                     ...FB: There seems to be a bit of confusion or 
>> misreading of how the
>>
>>                     method
>>
>>                 works. In the above statement you seem to assume that 
>> the verifier
>>
>>                 would not be part of the proof-chain, so that the 
>> final CML value
>>
>>                 would be somehow exposed to an external entity along 
>> with RND. This
>>
>>                 is not the case. The verifier is the last node (k+1) 
>> in the proof-chain.
>>
>>                     At concept level, the method reconstructs the 
>> polynomial hop by hop,
>>
>>                     picking
>>
>>                 up a point on the curve at every hop. Only final node 
>> in the
>>
>>                 proof-chain, which is also the verifier, acts on the 
>> information of
>>
>>                 all the k+1 points and as such is able to reconstruct 
>> the polynomial.
>>
>>                     In section 3.2.1, the draft explicitly states that 
>> the verifier *is*
>>
>>                     part of the
>>
>>                 proof-chain: "Each of the k+1 nodes (including 
>> verifier) are assigned
>>
>>                 a point on the polynomial i.e., shares of the SECRET." 
>> The fact that
>>
>>                 the verifier, i.e., the last node in the proof-chain 
>> ("k+1"),  can
>>
>>                 retrieve the secret, is desired and intentional, 
>> because the verifier
>>
>>                 needs to compare the result of the iterative 
>> construction of the secret with
>>
>>         the secret value it received from the controller.
>>
>>                 This is how the system is designed, and the 
>> calculation of (10+45)
>>
>>                 mod 53 = 2 is part of the verification.
>>
>>                 OK. That's slightly less bad. But it is still very bad 
>> crypto,
>>
>>                 because you are effectively doing a linear combination.
>>
>>                 You are evaluating POLY-3 = POLY-1 + POLY-2
>>
>>                 POLY-2 can be written as POLY-2 = RND + POLY-2-NC, in 
>> which POLY2-NC
>>
>>                 only contains the non constant terms -- that is, 
>> POLY-2-NC(0) = 0
>>
>>                 Then for any point X, we get POLY-3(X) = POLY-1(X) + 
>> POLY2-NC(X) +
>>
>>                 RND For a given value Xj of X, this means we can 
>> express : POLY-3(Xj)
>>
>>                 = Vj + RND In which Vj is a constant term = POLY-1(Xj) 
>> + POLY2-NC(Xj)
>>
>>                 Each node will increment the cumul by the value LPCj * 
>> POLY-3(Xj) =
>>
>>                 LPCj
>>
>>                 * (Vj + RND)
>>
>>                 Suppose that an adversary can observe the value of CML 
>> before and
>>
>>                 after being incremented by node Xj. Suppose that it 
>> could do that
>>
>>                 twice. Then it has the
>>
>>                 values:
>>
>>                 CML1-before-j = C1b
>>
>>                 CML1-after-j = C1a
>>
>>                 D1 = C1a - C1b = LPCj * (Vj + RND1)
>>
>>                 CML1-before-j = C2b
>>
>>                 CML1-after-j = C2a
>>
>>                 D2 = C2a - C2b = LPCj * (Vj + RND2)
>>
>>                 D2-D1 = LPCj*(RND2-RND1)
>>
>>                 LPCj = (RND2-RND1)/(D2-D1)
>>
>>                 Vj = D2/LPCj - RND2
>>
>>                 The inverse of numbers modulo a prime P is easily 
>> computed -- see
>>
>>                 Fermat's little theorem.
>>
>>                 Once the input and output of a node have been observed 
>> twice, it
>>
>>                 becomes easy to update the cumulative sum CML while 
>> bypassing these
>>
>>         nodes.
>>
>>             ...FB: This is great. Thanks for spelling out the 
>> details.  You raise a good point:
>>
>>         For the solution to make sense, we need to ensure that an 
>> attacker cannot
>>
>>         observe the input and output of a node.
>>
>>             To ensure this does not happen, we must require the 
>> communication to/from
>>
>>         the node to be encrypted, e.g., through link layer encryption 
>> of at least the
>>
>>         proof-of-transit data fields.
>>
>>             We'll add this requirement to the draft - and also detail 
>> the threat you describe
>>
>>         above in detail in the security considerations section.
>>
>>         That still will not be sufficient, because you also have to 
>> deal with the nodes
>>
>>         themselves. By definition, they see the intermediate results 
>> of other nodes. For
>>
>>         example, if the function chain is A->B->C->D->E, the node B 
>> sees the output of B
>>
>>         and the node D sees the input of D. If B and D  collude, they 
>> have access to the
>>
>>         input and output of C. They can easily find the secrets of C, 
>> and then execute a
>>
>>         chain A->B---->D->E in which the input of D is "corrected" to 
>> hide the absence of
>>
>>         C from the evaluator E.
>>
>>     Thanks much. You raise another valid point and we will add it to 
>> the security considerations section.
>>
>>     That said, IMHO we'd need to put the scenario you raise into 
>> perspective:
>>
>>     If the nodes B and D would be compromised by an attacker, the 
>> deployment would face a much more serious security issue than what any 
>> proof-of-transit method could protect against.
>>
>>         The linear combination scheme in the draft is not sound 
>> crypto. My
>>
>>         recommendation is to present the problem and the threat model 
>> clearly to the
>>
>>         crypto community, for example by presenting to the CFRG, and 
>> solicit advice on
>>
>>         better algorithms.
>>
>>     There has been quite a bit of discussion on proof of transit in 
>> several WGs, even before the SFC WG picked it up. And the SFC working 
>> group has considered different approaches early on in the solution 
>> specification, including e.g., using nested encryption, which is 
>> probably more in line with your preferences. 
>> Seehttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-01#section-3.5.1  
>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-01#section-3.5.1>. 
>> From my recollection of the discussion - others please chime in - one 
>> main reason of why the current approach was chosen was its 
>> computational simplicity, i.e., hardware platforms which do not 
>> support native encryption capabilities like AES-NI can implement it 
>> without considerable impact on the computational latency. So in other 
>> words, the current method is the result of a trade-off decision.
>>
>> We are discussing mathematics, not opinions. It is not a matter of 
>> preferences, it is a matter of threat model. The draft that I reviewed 
>> does not mention that the scheme should only be used in a benign 
>> environment in which no attacker can see the traffic and all nodes are 
>> fully trusted to not try gaming the system. The proposed scheme uses 
>> crypto vocabulary, with references to SSS and use of terms like 
>> "proof" or "cryptanalysis". Indeed, the header paragraph of the 
>> security considerations says:
>>
>>     POT is a mechanism that is used for verifying the path through which
>>
>>     a packet was forwarded.  The security considerations of IOAM in
>>
>>     general are discussed in [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data].  Specifically, it
>>
>>     is assumed that POT is used in a confined network domain, and
>>
>>     therefore the potential threats that POT is intended to mitigate
>>
>>     should be viewed accordingly.  POT prevents spoofing and tampering;
>>
>>     an attacker cannot maliciously create a bogus POT or modify a
>>
>>     legitimate one.  Furthermore, a legitimate node that takes part in
>>
>>     the POT protocol cannot masquerade as another node along the path.
>>
>>     These considerations are discussed in detail in the rest of this
>>
>>     section.
>>
>> The previous discussions have shown that an attacker CAN  "maliciously 
>> create a bogus POT or modify a legitimate one", provided it is able to 
>> see the traffic, or some of the traffic. The discussions also show 
>> that "a legitimate node that takes part in the POT protocol" CAN 
>> "masquerade as another node along the path". Contrary to statements in 
>> the "cryptanalysis" section, "A passive attacker observing CML values 
>> across nodes (i.e., as the packets entering and leaving)" CAN  
>> "perform differential analysis". The attack cannot "be mitigated using 
>> a good PRNG for generating RND".
>>
>> If the system was only designed for operation in a "benign 
>> environment" and you were only concerned with detecting operation 
>> failures, I am pretty sure that you could come out with something less 
>> complicated. For example you could exploit the analysis that I made to 
>> radically simplify the implementation and describe the scheme as "CML 
>> = Sum (Xj*RNDp)", where Xj is a secret coefficient provisioned to node 
>> j, and RNPp is per packet random number. The verification by the 
>> evaluator will check that "RND == CML + Xe*RND", where "Xe = 1 - Sum 
>> Xj". That would get you an easy-to-implement checksum. But you would 
>> need to be very clear about the domain of application, and the failure 
>> mode if the traffic can be observed or nodes can be compromised, and 
>> the draft should probably drop the references to Shamir's SSS, because 
>> they just obfuscate the analysis.
>>
>> -- Christian Huitema
>>
> 


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 08:39:59 -0700
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To: Med Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
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Hi Med,
thank you for your quick response and helpful suggestion. I'll add the text
on rate-limiting.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 11:43 PM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> This is better, thanks.
>
>
>
> Given that you indicate that a notification MUST be sent, you may conside=
r
> adding a sentence to basically say that the notification SHOULD be
> rate-limited.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Greg Mirsky
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* lundi 18 octobre 2021 18:15
> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> *Cc :* sfc-chairs@ietf.org; Service Function Chaining IETF list <
> sfc@ietf.org>
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.tx=
t
>
>
>
> Hi Med,
>
> thank you for pointing that out to me. Attached is the diff highlighting
> the proposed update. I greatly appreciate your feedback on the proposed
> change.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 10:26 PM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> There is still one statement that was not removed, though:
>
>
>
> (6.6.1):
>
>
>
>    The initiator of CVReq MAY require the collected information in the
>
>    CVRep be sent in the integrity-protected mode using the MAC Context
>
>    Header, defined in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity].
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Greg Mirsky
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 15 octobre 2021 22:13
> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> *Cc :* sfc-chairs@ietf.org; Service Function Chaining IETF list <
> sfc@ietf.org>
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.tx=
t
>
>
>
> Hi Med,
>
> thank you for your quick response. I've modified the text according to
> your suggestions and uploaded the new version.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 9:57 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Please see inline.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 15 octobre 2021 18:06
> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> *Cc :* Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>;
> sfc-chairs@ietf.org
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.tx=
t
>
>
>
> Hi Med,
>
> thank you for your review and comments. Please find my notes in-lined
> below tagged by GIM>>.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 7:54 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg, all,
>
>
>
> Please find below some quick comments about this version:
>
>
>
> (1)
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CWhile SFC Echo Request always traverses the SFP, it is directed =
to,
>
> the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent over an IP network.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> I=E2=80=99m not sure to get the intent here, especially that an SFP is st=
ill =E2=80=9Cover
> an IP network=E2=80=9D.
>
> GIM>> We are pointing out that the Echo Request traverses SFP using NSH
> while the Echo Reply is not. Do you think that explicitly referring to th=
e
> role of NSH helps to make it clearer:
>
> OLD TEXT:
>
>    While SFC Echo Request always traverses the SFP, it is directed to,
>
>    the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent over an IP network.
>
> NEW TEXT:
>
>    While SFC Echo Request always traverses the SFP, it is directed to,
>
>    using NSH, the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent over an IP
>
>    network without NSH.
>
>
>
> *[Med] I would just delete =E2=80=9Cover an IP network=E2=80=9D from the =
NEW text. Thanks.
> *
>
>
>
>
>
> I have the same concern with this one:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CThere are scenarios when it is beneficial to direct the responde=
r to
>
> use a path other than the IP network=E2=80=9C
>
> GIM>> Would the following update make it clearer:
>
> OLD TEXT:
>
>    There are scenarios when it is beneficial to direct the responder to
>
>    use a path other than the IP network.
>
> NEW TEXT:
>
>    In some cases, an operator might choose to direct the responder
>
>    to send the Echo Reply with NSH over a particular SFP.
>
>
>
> *[Med] This is better, thanks. *
>
>
>
> (2) You may want align these two statements to avoid what may be perceive=
d
> as an internal inconsistency (or redundant requirements):
>
>
>
>       The Message Authentication Code (MAC) Context Header that is
> defined
>
>       in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity] MAY be used to protect the SFC
> Echo
>
>       Request's integrity when using the SFC Return Path TLV
>
>
>
> vs.
>
>
>
>       When the integrity protection for SFC active OAM, and SFC Echo
>
>       Request/Reply in particular, is required, it is RECOMMENDED to use
>
>       one of the Context Headers defined in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity].
>
> GIM>> Thank you for catching this inconsistency. Would you agree that
> s/MAY/SHOULD/ resolves it?
>
> *[Med] Yes=E2=80=A6 but I would just maintain the one in the Security
> Considerations Section.  *
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Greg Mirsky
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* vendredi 8 octobre 2021 18:19
> *=C3=80 :* Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>;
> sfc-chairs@ietf.org
> *Objet :* [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> following the discussion on the SFC WG mailing list and the direction fro=
m
> the SFC WG Chairs, we've merged substantive parts
> of draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency
> and draft-ao-sfc-oam-return-path-specified with this draft where the base
> functionality of the SFC NSH Echo Request/Reply is defined. The authors
> greatly appreciate and welcome your comments, questions, and suggestions.
> We're looking forward to the discussion that will help to progress this
> document to the WG LC.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg (on behalf of the authors).
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Date: Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:13 AM
> Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> Cc: <sfc@ietf.org>
>
>
>
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF=
.
>
>         Title           : Active OAM for Service Function Chaining
>         Authors         : Greg Mirsky
>                           Wei Meng
>                           Ting Ao
>                           Kent Leung
>                           Gyan Mishra
>         Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt
>         Pages           : 37
>         Date            : 2021-10-08
>
> Abstract:
>    A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, and
>    Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a network is
>    presented in this document.  Based on these requirements, an
>    encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to detect
>    and localize defects are described.
>
>    This document updates RFC 8300.  Particularly, it updates the
>    definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) (RFC
>    8300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in the NSH.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/
>
> There is also an HTML version available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.html
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14
>
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
>
>
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>
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o=
u falsifie. Merci.
>
>
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i=
nformation that may be protected by law;
>
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
>
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de=
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>
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>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
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> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid=
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> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
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> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
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> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
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> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
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--000000000000155dc205ceb67a83
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Med,<div>thank you for your quick response and helpful =
suggestion. I&#39;ll add the text on rate-limiting.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div di=
r=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 11:43 PM &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_2000156677439001708WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Greg,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">This is better, thanks.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Given that you indicate that a notification M=
UST be sent, you may consider adding a sentence to basically say that the n=
otification SHOULD
 be rate-limited.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>De la part d=
e</b> Greg Mirsky<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> lundi 18 octobre 2021 18:15<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:moha=
med.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a=
>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
fc-chairs@ietf.org</a>; Service Function Chaining IETF list &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am-14.txt<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Med,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for pointing that out to me. Attached is t=
he diff highlighting the=C2=A0proposed update. I greatly appreciate your fe=
edback on the proposed change.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 10:26 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Greg,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Thank you.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">There is still one statement that was not rem=
oved, though:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">(6.6.1):</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 The initiator of CVReq MAY requi=
re the collected information in the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 CVRep be sent in the integrity-p=
rotected mode using the MAC Context</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Header, defined in [I-D.ietf-sfc=
-nsh-integrity].
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Med</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>De la part de</b> Greg Mirsky<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> vendredi 15 octobre 2021 22:13<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:moha=
med.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a=
>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
fc-chairs@ietf.org</a>; Service Function Chaining IETF list &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am-14.txt<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Med,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your quick response. I&#39;ve modified=
 the text according to your suggestions and uploaded the new version.<u></u=
><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 9:57 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Greg,
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Please see inline.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Med</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:g=
regimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> vendredi 15 octobre 2021 18:06<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:moha=
med.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a=
>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> Service Function Chaining IETF list &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-chairs@ietf.or=
g</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am-14.txt<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Med,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your review and comments. Please find =
my notes in-lined below tagged by GIM&gt;&gt;.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 7:54 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.=
com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Greg, all,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Please find below some quick comments about t=
his version:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">(1)</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=E2=80=9CWhile SFC Echo Request always traver=
ses the SFP, it is directed to,=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">the corresponding Echo Reply usually is sent =
over an IP network.=E2=80=9D</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">I=E2=80=99m not sure to get the intent here, =
especially that an SFP is still =E2=80=9Cover an IP network=E2=80=9D.</span=
><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; We are pointing out that the Echo Reques=
t traverses SFP using NSH while the Echo Reply is not. Do you think that ex=
plicitly referring=C2=A0to the role of NSH helps to make it clearer:<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">OLD TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0While SFC Echo Request always traverses=
 the SFP, it is directed to,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0the corresponding Echo Reply usually is=
 sent over an IP network.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NEW TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0While SFC Echo Request always traverses=
 the SFP, it is directed to,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0using NSH, the corresponding Echo Reply=
 usually is sent over an IP<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0network without NSH.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">[Med] I would just delete =E2=80=9Cover=
 an IP network=E2=80=9D from the NEW text. Thanks.
</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">I have the same concern with this one:
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=E2=80=9CThere are scenarios when it is benef=
icial to direct the responder to=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">use a path other than the IP network=E2=80=9C=
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; Would the following update make it clear=
er:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">OLD TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0There are scenarios when it is benefici=
al to direct the responder to<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0use a path other than the IP network.=
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NEW TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0In some cases, an operator might choose=
 to direct the responder<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0to send the Echo Reply with NSH over a =
particular SFP.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">[Med] This is better, thanks.
</span></i></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">(2) You may want align these two statements t=
o avoid what may be perceived as an internal inconsistency (or
 redundant requirements): </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The Message Au=
thentication Code (MAC) Context Header that is defined=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 in [I-D.ietf-s=
fc-nsh-integrity] MAY be used to protect the SFC Echo=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Request&#39;s =
integrity when using the SFC Return Path TLV</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">vs.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 When the integ=
rity protection for SFC active OAM, and SFC Echo
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Request/Reply =
in particular, is required, it is RECOMMENDED to use
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 one of the Con=
text Headers defined in [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity].</span><u></u><u></u><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you for catching this inconsistenc=
y. Would you agree that s/MAY/SHOULD/ resolves it?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">[Med] Yes=E2=80=A6 but I would just mai=
ntain the one in the Security Considerations Section. =C2=A0</span></i></b>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Med</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>De la part de</b> Greg Mirsky<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> vendredi 8 octobre 2021 18:19<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> Service Function Chaining IETF list &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-chairs@ietf.or=
g</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> [sfc] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-1=
4.txt<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear All,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">following the discussion on the SFC WG mailing list =
and the direction from the SFC WG Chairs, we&#39;ve merged substantive part=
s of=C2=A0draft-ao-sfc-oam-path-consistency and=C2=A0draft-ao-sfc-oam-retur=
n-path-specified
 with this draft where the base functionality of the SFC NSH Echo Request/R=
eply is defined. The authors greatly appreciate and welcome your comments, =
questions, and suggestions. We&#39;re looking forward to the discussion tha=
t will help to progress this document
 to the WG LC.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt">Greg (on behalf of the =
authors).<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>
From: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">int=
ernet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Date: Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 9:13 AM<br>
Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt<br>
To: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i-d-anno=
unce@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&=
gt;<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.<br>
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.<=
br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 Active OAM for Service Function Chaining<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Greg=
 Mirsky<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wei Meng<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ting Ao<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Kent Leung<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan Mishra<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet=
f-sfc-multi-layer-oam-14.txt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 37<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=
 2021-10-08<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, an=
d<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a netwo=
rk is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0presented in this document.=C2=A0 Based on these requirements,=
 an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to=
 detect<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and localize defects are described.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document updates RFC 8300.=C2=A0 Particularly, it updates=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) =
(RFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A08300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in t=
he NSH.<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/=
" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-l=
ayer-oam/</a><br>
<br>
There is also an HTML version available at:<br>
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4.html" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-mu=
lti-layer-oam-14.html</a><br>
<br>
A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am-14" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc=
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<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les me=
ssages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,<u></u><u></u></pr=
e>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les me=
ssages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,<u></u><u></u></pr=
e>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Thank you.<u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les me=
ssages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,<u></u><u></u></pr=
e>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre>
<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Thank you.<u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</pre></div>

</blockquote></div>

--000000000000155dc205ceb67a83--


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Active OAM for Service Function Chaining
        Authors         : Greg Mirsky
                          Wei Meng
                          Ting Ao
                          Kent Leung
                          Gyan Mishra
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt
	Pages           : 37
	Date            : 2021-10-19

Abstract:
   A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a network is
   presented in this document.  Based on these requirements, an
   encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to detect
   and localize defects are described.

   This document updates RFC 8300.  Particularly, it updates the
   definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) (RFC
   8300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in the NSH.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/

There is also an HTML version available at:
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.html

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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--000000000000abfdd205ceb74df7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Dear Jim and Joel,
we've completed merging the substantive parts of two SFC OAM drafts. Many
thanks to Med for his thorough reviews, thoughtful comments that helped us
improve the document. The authors believe that the draft is stable and is
ready for the WG LC. We greatly appreciate your consideration of starting
the WG LC and are committed to addressing questions and comments.

Regards,
Greg (on behalf off the authors)

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:33 AM
Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt
To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Cc: <sfc@ietf.org>



A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Active OAM for Service Function Chaining
        Authors         : Greg Mirsky
                          Wei Meng
                          Ting Ao
                          Kent Leung
                          Gyan Mishra
        Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt
        Pages           : 37
        Date            : 2021-10-19

Abstract:
   A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, and
   Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a network is
   presented in this document.  Based on these requirements, an
   encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to detect
   and localize defects are described.

   This document updates RFC 8300.  Particularly, it updates the
   definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) (RFC
   8300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in the NSH.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/

There is also an HTML version available at:
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.html

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


_______________________________________________
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--000000000000abfdd205ceb74df7
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Jim and Joel,<div>we&#39;ve completed merging the sub=
stantive parts of two SFC OAM drafts. Many thanks to Med for his thorough r=
eviews, thoughtful comments that helped us improve the document. The author=
s believe that the draft is stable and is ready for the WG LC. We greatly a=
ppreciate your consideration of starting the WG LC and are committed to add=
ressing questions and comments.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div=
>Greg (on behalf off the authors)<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div di=
r=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>Fr=
om: <span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">inte=
rnet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:33 AM<b=
r>Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt<br>To:  =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a>&gt;<=
br>Cc:  &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br></div><=
br><br><br>
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.<br>
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.<=
br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 Active OAM for Service Function Chaining<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Greg=
 Mirsky<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wei Meng<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ting Ao<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Kent Leung<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan Mishra<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet=
f-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:=
 37<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :=
 2021-10-19<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, an=
d<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a netwo=
rk is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0presented in this document.=C2=A0 Based on these requirements,=
 an<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to=
 detect<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and localize defects are described.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document updates RFC 8300.=C2=A0 Particularly, it updates=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) =
(RFC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A08300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in t=
he NSH.<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra=
ft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/</a><br>
<br>
There is also an HTML version available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-1=
6.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/archive/i=
d/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.html</a><br>
<br>
A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-o=
am-16" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?ur=
l2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
<a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a><br>
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Subject: [sfc] Fwd: IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
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This starts the Working Group last call for 
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam.  Please see the text below that has been 
recorded in the datatracker.

thank you,
Joel


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:09:42 -0700 (PDT)
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james.n.guichard@futurewei.com
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:09:42 -0700
From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org>
To: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam@ietf.org, sfc-chairs@ietf.org


The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam has been changed to "In
WG Last Call" from "WG Document" by Joel Halpern:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/

Comment:
This document has been discussed in the working group extensively.  It was
just revised to include some content from other drafts, and that was
discussed.  Now we are looking to finish this up.  Please speak up if you
consider that it is done and ready for publication as a Proposed 
Standard. Alternatively, if you see difficulties or reasons why it 
should not be
published as a PS, please speak up.  Preferably with an explanation of the
concerns you have.

Thank you.  This call will last until 3-November-2021.

Yours,
Joel and Jim


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Subject: Re: [sfc] Fwd:  I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt
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While we are conducting the last call, and deciding who will shepherd 
this document...
1) If anyone would like to shepherd it, please let me or Jim know.
2) Would the authors and key contributors please confirm to the lsit 
that all known relevant IPR has been disclosed.

Thank you,
Joel

On 10/19/2021 12:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> Dear Jim and Joel,
> we've completed merging the substantive parts of two SFC OAM drafts. 
> Many thanks to Med for his thorough reviews, thoughtful comments that 
> helped us improve the document. The authors believe that the draft is 
> stable and is ready for the WG LC. We greatly appreciate your 
> consideration of starting the WG LC and are committed to addressing 
> questions and comments.
> 
> Regards,
> Greg (on behalf off the authors)
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>>
> Date: Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:33 AM
> Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt
> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org>>
> Cc: <sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
> 
> 
> 
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.
> 
>          Title           : Active OAM for Service Function Chaining
>          Authors         : Greg Mirsky
>                            Wei Meng
>                            Ting Ao
>                            Kent Leung
>                            Gyan Mishra
>          Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt
>          Pages           : 37
>          Date            : 2021-10-19
> 
> Abstract:
>     A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, and
>     Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a network is
>     presented in this document.  Based on these requirements, an
>     encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to detect
>     and localize defects are described.
> 
>     This document updates RFC 8300.  Particularly, it updates the
>     definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) (RFC
>     8300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in the NSH.
> 
> 
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/ 
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/>
> 
> There is also an HTML version available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.html 
> <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.html>
> 
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16 
> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16>
> 
> 
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ <ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc 
> <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>


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Hi Joel, all,

I think the draft is ready for publication.=20

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> De la part de Joel M. Halpern
> Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 19 octobre 2021 19:11
> =C0=A0: sfc@ietf.org
> Objet=A0: [sfc] Fwd: IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-
> oam
>=20
> This starts the Working Group last call for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-
> oam.  Please see the text below that has been recorded in the datatracker.
>=20
> thank you,
> Joel
>=20
>=20
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
> Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:09:42 -0700 (PDT)
> Resent-From: alias-bounces@ietf.org
> Resent-To: jmh@joelhalpern.com, tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com,
> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com
> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:09:42 -0700
> From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org>
> To: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam@ietf.org, sfc-chairs@ietf.org
>=20
>=20
> The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam has been changed to
> "In
> WG Last Call" from "WG Document" by Joel Halpern:
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/
>=20
> Comment:
> This document has been discussed in the working group extensively.  It was
> just revised to include some content from other drafts, and that was
> discussed.  Now we are looking to finish this up.  Please speak up if you
> consider that it is done and ready for publication as a Proposed
> Standard. Alternatively, if you see difficulties or reasons why it
> should not be
> published as a PS, please speak up.  Preferably with an explanation of the
> concerns you have.
>=20
> Thank you.  This call will last until 3-November-2021.
>=20
> Yours,
> Joel and Jim
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

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In-Reply-To: <ce5a89bb-73ef-32c0-c8c1-b9663c669b16@joelhalpern.com>
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 07:19:40 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmUVwRnpAcexX9=92TcVLUJ6FM-BFY8xOW1LJbJjk5oJAQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Cc: "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/DnY4uMwhTNEtmmmASdpDh-gEHE0>
Subject: Re: [sfc] Fwd: IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
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As the co-author, I believe that the draft is ready for publication.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 10:11 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
wrote:

> This starts the Working Group last call for
> draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam.  Please see the text below that has been
> recorded in the datatracker.
>
> thank you,
> Joel
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam
> Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:09:42 -0700 (PDT)
> Resent-From: alias-bounces@ietf.org
> Resent-To: jmh@joelhalpern.com, tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com,
> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com
> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:09:42 -0700
> From: IETF Secretariat <ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org>
> To: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam@ietf.org, sfc-chairs@ietf.org
>
>
> The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam has been changed to "In
> WG Last Call" from "WG Document" by Joel Halpern:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/
>
> Comment:
> This document has been discussed in the working group extensively.  It was
> just revised to include some content from other drafts, and that was
> discussed.  Now we are looking to finish this up.  Please speak up if you
> consider that it is done and ready for publication as a Proposed
> Standard. Alternatively, if you see difficulties or reasons why it
> should not be
> published as a PS, please speak up.  Preferably with an explanation of the
> concerns you have.
>
> Thank you.  This call will last until 3-November-2021.
>
> Yours,
> Joel and Jim
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>

--000000000000acf17305cec978bd
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<div dir=3D"ltr">As the co-author, I believe that the draft is ready for pu=
blication.<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Oct 19, =
2021 at 10:11 AM Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com"=
>jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex">This starts the Working Group last call for <br>
draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam.=C2=A0 Please see the text below that has be=
en <br>
recorded in the datatracker.<br>
<br>
thank you,<br>
Joel<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message --------<br>
Subject: IETF WG state changed for draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam<br>
Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:09:42 -0700 (PDT)<br>
Resent-From: <a href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">al=
ias-bounces@ietf.org</a><br>
Resent-To: <a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com" target=3D"_blank">jmh@joe=
lhalpern.com</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com</a>, <br>
<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">james.n=
.guichard@futurewei.com</a><br>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 10:09:42 -0700<br>
From: IETF Secretariat &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
To: <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam@ietf.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam@ietf.org</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-ch=
airs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-chairs@ietf.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF WG state of draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam has been changed to &qu=
ot;In<br>
WG Last Call&quot; from &quot;WG Document&quot; by Joel Halpern:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra=
ft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/</a><br>
<br>
Comment:<br>
This document has been discussed in the working group extensively.=C2=A0 It=
 was<br>
just revised to include some content from other drafts, and that was<br>
discussed.=C2=A0 Now we are looking to finish this up.=C2=A0 Please speak u=
p if you<br>
consider that it is done and ready for publication as a Proposed <br>
Standard. Alternatively, if you see difficulties or reasons why it <br>
should not be<br>
published as a PS, please speak up.=C2=A0 Preferably with an explanation of=
 the<br>
concerns you have.<br>
<br>
Thank you.=C2=A0 This call will last until 3-November-2021.<br>
<br>
Yours,<br>
Joel and Jim<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000acf17305cec978bd--


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2021 07:23:50 -0700
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To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Cc: Service Function Chaining IETF list <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Fwd:  I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt
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Hi, Joel et al.
as the co-author, I am not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this
draft.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:02 AM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
wrote:

> While we are conducting the last call, and deciding who will shepherd
> this document...
> 1) If anyone would like to shepherd it, please let me or Jim know.
> 2) Would the authors and key contributors please confirm to the lsit
> that all known relevant IPR has been disclosed.
>
> Thank you,
> Joel
>
> On 10/19/2021 12:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> > Dear Jim and Joel,
> > we've completed merging the substantive parts of two SFC OAM drafts.
> > Many thanks to Med for his thorough reviews, thoughtful comments that
> > helped us improve the document. The authors believe that the draft is
> > stable and is ready for the WG LC. We greatly appreciate your
> > consideration of starting the WG LC and are committed to addressing
> > questions and comments.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg (on behalf off the authors)
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>>
> > Date: Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:33 AM
> > Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt
> > To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org>>
> > Cc: <sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
> >
> >
> >
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> > directories.
> > This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the
> IETF.
> >
> >          Title           : Active OAM for Service Function Chaining
> >          Authors         : Greg Mirsky
> >                            Wei Meng
> >                            Ting Ao
> >                            Kent Leung
> >                            Gyan Mishra
> >          Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt
> >          Pages           : 37
> >          Date            : 2021-10-19
> >
> > Abstract:
> >     A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, and
> >     Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a network is
> >     presented in this document.  Based on these requirements, an
> >     encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to detect
> >     and localize defects are described.
> >
> >     This document updates RFC 8300.  Particularly, it updates the
> >     definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) (RFC
> >     8300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in the NSH.
> >
> >
> > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/
> > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/>
> >
> > There is also an HTML version available at:
> > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.html
> > <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.html>
> >
> > A diff from the previous version is available at:
> > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16
> > <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16>
> >
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ <ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi, Joel et al.<div>as the co-author, I am not aware of an=
y undisclosed IPR related to this draft.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,<=
/div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 11:02 AM Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com">jmh@joelhalpern.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">While we are conduc=
ting the last call, and deciding who will shepherd <br>
this document...<br>
1) If anyone would like to shepherd it, please let me or Jim know.<br>
2) Would the authors and key contributors please confirm to the lsit <br>
that all known relevant IPR has been disclosed.<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
Joel<br>
<br>
On 10/19/2021 12:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
&gt; Dear Jim and Joel,<br>
&gt; we&#39;ve completed merging the substantive parts of two SFC OAM draft=
s. <br>
&gt; Many thanks to Med for his thorough reviews, thoughtful comments that =
<br>
&gt; helped us improve the document. The authors believe that the draft is =
<br>
&gt; stable and is ready for the WG LC. We greatly appreciate your <br>
&gt; consideration of starting the WG LC and are committed to addressing <b=
r>
&gt; questions and comments.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; Greg (on behalf off the authors)<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; ---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>
&gt; From: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; Date: Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:33 AM<br>
&gt; Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt<br>
&gt; To: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i-d=
-announce@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org=
</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts <br=
>
&gt; directories.<br>
&gt; This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the I=
ETF.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0: Active OAM for Service Function Chaining<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0: Greg Mirsky<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wei Meng<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ting Ao<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Kent Leung<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan Mishra<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0: 37<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 : 2021-10-19<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Abstract:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A set of requirements for active Operation, Adminis=
tration, and<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs)=
 in a network is<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0presented in this document.=C2=A0 Based on these re=
quirements, an<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a m=
echanism to detect<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and localize defects are described.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This document updates RFC 8300.=C2=A0 Particularly,=
 it updates the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service He=
ader (NSH) (RFC<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A08300) and defines how an active OAM message is iden=
tified in the NSH.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer=
-oam/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/</a> <br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-l=
ayer-oam/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; There is also an HTML version available at:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-=
oam-16.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/arch=
ive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.html</a> <br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-la=
yer-oam-16.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/=
archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.html</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-la=
yer-oam-16" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdi=
ff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16</a> <br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-mult=
i-layer-oam-16" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/r=
fcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a> &lt;<a href=3D"ftp:/=
/ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ftp://=
ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; sfc mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt=
;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>&=
gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a> <br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a>&gt;<=
br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000874bca05cec987b4--


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Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) and Congestion Feedback Using the Network Service Header (NSH) and IPFIX
        Authors         : Donald E. Eastlake
                          Bob Briscoe
                          Yizhou Li
                          Andrew G. Malis
                          Xinpeng Wei
	Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt
	Pages           : 33
	Date            : 2021-10-21

Abstract:
   Explicit congestion notification (ECN) allows a forwarding element to
   notify downstream devices of the onset of congestion without having
   to drop packets. Coupled with a means to feed information about
   congestion back to upstream nodes, this can improve network
   efficiency through better congestion control, frequently without
   packet drops. This document specifies ECN and congestion feedback
   support within a Service Function Chaining (SFC) domain through use
   of the Network Service Header (NSH, RFC 8300) and IP Flow Information
   Export (IPFIX, RFC 7011).



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support/

There is also an htmlized version available at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2021 07:20:46 +0530
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Cc: James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
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Hi Greg,

Sorry for the very late reply. Please find responses to your comments
inline @Shwetha:



On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 3:30 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Authors and All,
> I've read the current version of the draft and have some comments I'd lik=
e
> to share with you. I much appreciate your thoughts on where this work
> should go considering developments in other IETF WGs. Please find my note=
s
> and questions below:
>
>    - It is stated in the Abstract that:
>
>    In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records
>    operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet
>    traverses a path between two points in the network.
>
> But that is the case only for the pre-allocated and incremental trace
> option types. The Direct Export option
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-=
ippm-ioam-direct-export/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeD=
tfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKE0jphubQ$>
> does not write telemetry data into the data packet itself but export
> telemetry information in a specially constructed packet.
> And as we are talking about different IOAM trace options, the question of
> the scope of this document seems appropriate. There is a WGLC on two IOAM
> documents
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/A=
0OcGQ5LlNjnjfRVp_iUTMYMrcs/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7U=
zeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHOndSFRg$>
> active through September 15th at the IPPM WG. I believe that it would be
> beneficial if we had a single document that describes the applicability o=
f
> IOAM in all its functionality defined by documents in IPPM WG. Of course,
> that cannot be a moving target as that would not be helpful. But since th=
e
> IPPM WG discusses the progress of two IOAM documents, it could be a great
> time to address the applicability of the Direct Export trace type
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-=
ippm-ioam-direct-export/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeD=
tfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKE0jphubQ$>
> and Loopback and Active flags defined in draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-=
ippm-ioam-flags/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyeP=
ahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHO7lReVw$>.
> It would be concerning to have more than one SFC document describing the
> applicability of the generic IOAM mechanisms
>
>
Shwetha> This is a fair point. We will revise the  draft with text in the
abstract and Section 3 IOAM-Type to be updated to include the usage of
trace and DEX options.  The encapsulation of IOAM options within NSH itself
in its current form already supports all the IOAM Option Type defined both
from draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data and draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export along
with the flags supported within the options. Hence the IOAM-data-field
definitions in the draft will remain unchanged.

>
>
>
>    - The location of the IOAM header in the SFC NSH-encapsulated packet
>    is defined in Section 3:
>
>    IOAM-Data-Fields are carried in NSH
>    using a next protocol header which follows the NSH MD context
>    headers.
>
> I've checked RFC 8300 but couldn't find it defines the Next Protocol
> header. Also, it appears that NSH Context headers are optional. Hence my
> question. Is the presence of an NSH Context header required when using
> IOAM? Could you clarify which mechanism is used to identify the payload o=
f
> an SFC NSH-encapsulated packet as IOAM?
>
> Shwetha> We will reword it, it is not Next Protocol header but using IOAM
as a Next Protocol as described in Section 4.1 and requested in IANA
section. Following is the proposed text to align with the RFC 8300
reference to context headers following base header and service path header:
"The NSH is defined in [RFC8300].  IOAM-Data-Fields are carried in
NSH using a next protocol to identify IOAM data fields that follows NSH
context headers."

>
>    - If I understand the format of the IOAM header defined in Section 3
>    correctly, the header's length is limited by 1020 octets, while the
>    effective length containing IOAM options and data - 1016 octets. Is th=
at
>    correct? What is the recommended technique of collecting IOAM data tha=
t
>    exceeds that limit?
>
> Shwetha > IOAM options inherently support specifying the size limits at
the node that added the IOAM options. While operationalizing the solution
the data types included and number of nodes expected to be adding the data
should be selected. This is covered in deployment
considerations draft-brockners-opsawg-ioam-deployment.

>
>    - In Section 4.1, I've found the text reflecting the history of the
>    discussion about how to carry the IOAM header using NSH encapsulation.=
 As
>    the text has no normative value, I suggest moving it into an Appendix.
>
> Shwetha > Agreed, revised draft will have this section moved to Appendix.

>
>    - I find the rules of handling the O-bit in NSH listed in Section 4.2
>    inconsistent and confusing. The IOAM header is not part of NSH
>    encapsulation but is a part of the payload. But in one case, when user=
 data
>    follows it, the O-bit must not be set as. If there's no user data afte=
r the
>    IOAM header, then the O-bit must be set. But from the perspective of N=
SH
>    encapsulation, it includes specially constructed data added for the so=
le
>    purpose of collecting OAM/telemetry information. Then, why, in one cas=
e,
>    the O-bit is cleared and in the other set if, in both cases, the
>    NSH-encapsulated packet is used to perform the OAM function?
>
> Shwetha > The reason for not setting the O-bit for packets that contains
actual user data is because RFC 8300 has " SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier
implementations that do not support

      SFC OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set". It
will be undesirable to discard packets with O-bit set that carry user
data as IOAM can be inserted insitu.

For synthetic traffic created for OAM along with IOAM-data-fields in
NSH following the NSH OAM function with 0-bit set is desirable.


Thanks,
Shwetha

> I much appreciate your consideration of my comments and questions and
> looking forward to your feedback.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 5:32 AM James Guichard <
> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear WG:
>>
>>
>>
>> This email starts a 2 week Working Group Last Call for
>> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh [1].
>>
>>
>>
>> Please read this document if you haven=E2=80=99t read the most recent ve=
rsion and
>> send your comments to the SFC WG list no later than September 1st 2021.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated
>> on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this poi=
nt.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lastly, if you are an author or contributor please response to indicate
>> whether you know of any undisclosed IPR related to this document.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim & Joel
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf=
-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePah=
NAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHdTiRE6A$>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc__=
;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4=
C7Z0OJKEKMsIVaA$>
>>
>

--000000000000480e9005cf4bd3c5
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"monospace">Hi Greg,</font><=
div><font face=3D"monospace"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace"=
>Sorry for the very late reply. Please find responses to your comments inli=
ne @Shwetha:</font></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 =
at 3:30 AM Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Authors and All,<div=
>I&#39;ve read the current version of the draft and have some comments I&#3=
9;d like to share with you. I much appreciate your thoughts on where this w=
ork should go considering developments in other IETF WGs. Please find my no=
tes and questions below:</div><div><ul><li>It is stated in the Abstract tha=
t:</li></ul><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;paddin=
g:0px"><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenanc=
e (IOAM) records<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0operational and telemetry information in t=
he packet while the packet<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0traverses a path between two poi=
nts in the network.<br></div></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>But that is the case only for the=
 pre-allocated and incremental trace option=C2=A0types. The <a href=3D"http=
s://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-io=
am-direct-export/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhye=
PahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKE0jphubQ$" target=3D"_blank">Direct Export option=
</a> does not write telemetry=C2=A0data into the data packet itself but exp=
ort telemetry information in a specially constructed packet.=C2=A0</div><di=
v>And as we are talking about different IOAM trace options, the question=C2=
=A0of the scope of this document seems appropriate. There is <a href=3D"htt=
ps://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/A0OcGQ5=
LlNjnjfRVp_iUTMYMrcs/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfP=
NhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHOndSFRg$" target=3D"_blank">a WGLC on two IO=
AM documents</a> active through September 15th at the IPPM WG. I believe th=
at it would be beneficial if we had a single document that describes the ap=
plicability of IOAM in all its functionality defined by documents in IPPM W=
G. Of course, that cannot be a moving target as that would not be helpful. =
But since the IPPM WG discusses the progress of two IOAM documents, it coul=
d be a great time to address the applicability of <a href=3D"https://urldef=
ense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-=
export/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9e=
FdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKE0jphubQ$" target=3D"_blank">the Direct Export trace type</=
a> and Loopback and Active flags defined in=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://urldefe=
nse.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags/__=
;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4=
C7Z0OJKHO7lReVw$" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags</a>. It woul=
d be concerning to have more than one SFC document describing the applicabi=
lity of the generic IOAM mechanisms</div></blockquote></div></div></blockqu=
ote><div><font face=3D"monospace"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"monos=
pace">Shwetha&gt; This is a fair point. We will revise the=C2=A0 draft with=
 text in the abstract and Section 3 I<span style=3D"background-color:rgb(25=
5,253,245);color:rgb(0,0,0)">OAM-Type</span>=C2=A0to be updated to include =
the usage of trace and DEX options.=C2=A0 The encapsulation of IOAM options=
 within NSH itself in its current form already supports all the IOAM Option=
 Type defined both from draft-<span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,253,2=
45);color:rgb(0,0,0)">ietf-ippm-ioam-data and=C2=A0</span>draft-ietf-ippm-i=
oam-direct-</font><span style=3D"font-family:monospace">export along with t=
he flags supported within the options. Hence the IOAM-data-field definition=
s in the draft will remain unchanged.=C2=A0</span><br></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><blockquote style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>=C2=A0</div></blo=
ckquote></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><ul><li>The location of the IOAM header in th=
e SFC NSH-encapsulated=C2=A0packet is defined in Section 3:</li></ul></div>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0IOAM-Data-Fields are carried in NSH</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0usi=
ng a next protocol header which follows the NSH MD context</div><div>=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0headers.</div></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 4=
0px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>I&#39;ve checked RFC 8300 but couldn&#39;=
t find it defines the Next Protocol header. Also, it appears that NSH Conte=
xt headers=C2=A0are optional. Hence my question. Is the presence of an NSH =
Context header required when using IOAM? Could you clarify which mechanism =
is used to identify the payload of an SFC NSH-encapsulated packet as IOAM?<=
/div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><span style=3D"font-family:monosp=
ace">Shwetha&gt; We will reword it, it is not Next Protocol header but usin=
g IOAM as a Next Protocol as described in Section 4.1 and requested in IANA=
 section. Following is the proposed text to align with the RFC 8300 referen=
ce to context headers following base header and service path header:</span>=
</div><div><font face=3D"monospace">&quot;The NSH is defined in [RFC8300].=
=C2=A0 IOAM-Data-Fields are carried in NSH=C2=A0using a next protocol to id=
entify IOAM data fields that follows NSH context headers.&quot;</font></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border=
-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><u=
l><li>If I understand the format of the IOAM header defined in Section 3 co=
rrectly, the header&#39;s length is limited by 1020 octets, while the effec=
tive length containing IOAM options and data - 1016 octets. Is that correct=
? What is the recommended technique of collecting IOAM data that exceeds th=
at limit?</li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div><font face=3D"monospace">S=
hwetha &gt; IOAM options inherently support specifying the size limits at t=
he node that added the IOAM options. While operationalizing the solution th=
e data types included and number of nodes expected to be adding the data sh=
ould be selected. This is covered in deployment considerations=C2=A0draft-b=
rockners-opsawg-ioam-deployment.</font></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><ul><li>In Section 4.1, I&#39;ve =
found the text reflecting the history of the discussion about how to carry =
the IOAM header using NSH encapsulation. As the text has no normative value=
, I suggest moving it into an Appendix.</li></ul></div></div></blockquote><=
div><font face=3D"monospace">Shwetha &gt; Agreed, revised draft will have t=
his section moved to Appendix.=C2=A0</font></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><ul><li>I find the rules of h=
andling the O-bit in NSH listed in Section 4.2 inconsistent and confusing. =
The IOAM header is not part of NSH encapsulation but is a part of the paylo=
ad. But in one case, when user data follows it, the O-bit must not be set a=
s. If there&#39;s no user data after the IOAM header, then the O-bit must b=
e set. But from the perspective of NSH encapsulation, it includes specially=
 constructed data added for the sole purpose of collecting OAM/telemetry in=
formation. Then, why, in one case, the O-bit is cleared and in the other se=
t if, in both cases, the NSH-encapsulated packet is used to perform the OAM=
 function?</li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div><font face=3D"monospace">=
Shwetha &gt; The reason for not setting the O-bit for packets that contains=
 actual user data is because RFC 8300 has &quot;<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,=
0,0)">      SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier implementations that do not support=
</span><br></font></div><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0p=
x;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">      SFC OAM proce=
dures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set&quot;. It will be undesirable t=
o discard packets with O-bit set that carry user data as IOAM can be insert=
ed insitu.</pre><pre class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin=
-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">For synthetic traffic creat=
ed for OAM along with IOAM-data-fields in NSH following the NSH OAM functio=
n with 0-bit set is desirable.  </pre><div><br></div><div><font face=3D"mon=
ospace">Thanks,</font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace">Shwetha</font>=C2=
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div><div>I much appreciate your consideration of my comments and question=
s and looking forward to your feedback.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Rega=
rds,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"l=
tr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 5:32 AM James Guichard &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">james.=
n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear WG:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This email starts a 2 week Working Group Last Call f=
or draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh [1].<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please read this document if you haven=E2=80=99t rea=
d the most recent version and send your comments to the SFC WG list no late=
r than September 1<sup>st</sup> 2021.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)">If you are raisi=
ng a point which you expect will be specifically debated on the mailing lis=
t, consider using a specific email/thread for this point.<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)">Lastly, if you a=
re an author or contributor please response to indicate whether you know of=
 any undisclosed IPR related to this document.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks!<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jim &amp; Joel<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"color:blac=
k">[1] </span>
<span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://=
datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-=
5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHdTiRE6A$" target=
=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a></=
span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/sfc__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFd=
QxxBWM4C7Z0OJKEKMsIVaA$" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.i=
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
</div>

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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2021 07:01:05 -0700
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To: Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>
Cc: James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org,  "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] WGLC for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
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Hi Shwetha,
thank you for the detailed response to my comments. Please feel free to
share any updates you're considering for the next version. I'll be glad to
work together on these.
I have several follow-up notes in-lined below under the GIM>> tag.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 6:51 PM Shwetha Bhandari <
shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
> Sorry for the very late reply. Please find responses to your comments
> inline @Shwetha:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 3:30 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Authors and All,
>> I've read the current version of the draft and have some comments I'd
>> like to share with you. I much appreciate your thoughts on where this wo=
rk
>> should go considering developments in other IETF WGs. Please find my not=
es
>> and questions below:
>>
>>    - It is stated in the Abstract that:
>>
>>    In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records
>>    operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet
>>    traverses a path between two points in the network.
>>
>> But that is the case only for the pre-allocated and incremental trace
>> option types. The Direct Export option
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf=
-ippm-ioam-direct-export/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7Uze=
DtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKE0jphubQ$>
>> does not write telemetry data into the data packet itself but export
>> telemetry information in a specially constructed packet.
>> And as we are talking about different IOAM trace options, the question o=
f
>> the scope of this document seems appropriate. There is a WGLC on two
>> IOAM documents
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/=
A0OcGQ5LlNjnjfRVp_iUTMYMrcs/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7=
UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHOndSFRg$>
>> active through September 15th at the IPPM WG. I believe that it would be
>> beneficial if we had a single document that describes the applicability =
of
>> IOAM in all its functionality defined by documents in IPPM WG. Of course=
,
>> that cannot be a moving target as that would not be helpful. But since t=
he
>> IPPM WG discusses the progress of two IOAM documents, it could be a grea=
t
>> time to address the applicability of the Direct Export trace type
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf=
-ippm-ioam-direct-export/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7Uze=
DtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKE0jphubQ$>
>> and Loopback and Active flags defined in draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf=
-ippm-ioam-flags/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhye=
PahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHO7lReVw$>.
>> It would be concerning to have more than one SFC document describing the
>> applicability of the generic IOAM mechanisms
>>
>>
> Shwetha> This is a fair point. We will revise the  draft with text in the
> abstract and Section 3 IOAM-Type to be updated to include the usage of
> trace and DEX options.  The encapsulation of IOAM options within NSH itse=
lf
> in its current form already supports all the IOAM Option Type defined bot=
h
> from draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data and draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export
> along with the flags supported within the options. Hence the
> IOAM-data-field definitions in the draft will remain unchanged.
>
GIM>> I agree that the definitions of the IOAM data-fields are invariant in
various data plane encapsulations. You likely follow the discussion of the
IAOM Direct Export and IOAM flags on the IPPM WG list. I think that for SFC
NSH, IOAM Direct Export could be as simple as "use the local policy". The
applicability of the Loopback and Active flags seems to require detailed
explanation by SFP actors.

>
>
>>
>>
>>    - The location of the IOAM header in the SFC NSH-encapsulated packet
>>    is defined in Section 3:
>>
>>    IOAM-Data-Fields are carried in NSH
>>    using a next protocol header which follows the NSH MD context
>>    headers.
>>
>> I've checked RFC 8300 but couldn't find it defines the Next Protocol
>> header. Also, it appears that NSH Context headers are optional. Hence my
>> question. Is the presence of an NSH Context header required when using
>> IOAM? Could you clarify which mechanism is used to identify the payload =
of
>> an SFC NSH-encapsulated packet as IOAM?
>>
>> Shwetha> We will reword it, it is not Next Protocol header but using IOA=
M
> as a Next Protocol as described in Section 4.1 and requested in IANA
> section. Following is the proposed text to align with the RFC 8300
> reference to context headers following base header and service path heade=
r:
> "The NSH is defined in [RFC8300].  IOAM-Data-Fields are carried in
> NSH using a next protocol to identify IOAM data fields that follows NSH
> context headers."
>
GIM>> I think that RFC 8300 views data following Context Headers as NSH
payload, not being "in NSH".

>
>>    - If I understand the format of the IOAM header defined in Section 3
>>    correctly, the header's length is limited by 1020 octets, while the
>>    effective length containing IOAM options and data - 1016 octets. Is t=
hat
>>    correct? What is the recommended technique of collecting IOAM data th=
at
>>    exceeds that limit?
>>
>> Shwetha > IOAM options inherently support specifying the size limits at
> the node that added the IOAM options. While operationalizing the solution
> the data types included and number of nodes expected to be adding the dat=
a
> should be selected. This is covered in deployment
> considerations draft-brockners-opsawg-ioam-deployment.
>
>>
>>    - In Section 4.1, I've found the text reflecting the history of the
>>    discussion about how to carry the IOAM header using NSH encapsulation=
. As
>>    the text has no normative value, I suggest moving it into an Appendix=
.
>>
>> Shwetha > Agreed, revised draft will have this section moved to Appendix=
.
>
GIM>> Thank you.

>
>>    - I find the rules of handling the O-bit in NSH listed in Section 4.2
>>    inconsistent and confusing. The IOAM header is not part of NSH
>>    encapsulation but is a part of the payload. But in one case, when use=
r data
>>    follows it, the O-bit must not be set as. If there's no user data aft=
er the
>>    IOAM header, then the O-bit must be set. But from the perspective of =
NSH
>>    encapsulation, it includes specially constructed data added for the s=
ole
>>    purpose of collecting OAM/telemetry information. Then, why, in one ca=
se,
>>    the O-bit is cleared and in the other set if, in both cases, the
>>    NSH-encapsulated packet is used to perform the OAM function?
>>
>> Shwetha > The reason for not setting the O-bit for packets that contains
> actual user data is because RFC 8300 has " SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier
> implementations that do not support
>
>       SFC OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set". It will =
be undesirable to discard packets with O-bit set that carry user data as IO=
AM can be inserted insitu.
>
> For synthetic traffic created for OAM along with IOAM-data-fields in NSH =
following the NSH OAM function with 0-bit set is desirable.
>
>  GIM>> This is an interesting situation. I agree that there could be an
SFC element not supporting "SFC OAM procedures" (not clear what these are).
By the same token, would such SFC element support IOAM, be capable of
processing IOAM without adverse impact to user data? I am not certain and
it seems that it might be better to recommend that NSH packets with IOAM be
dropped by an SFP element if it does not support "SFC OAM". What are your
thoughts?


>
> Thanks,
> Shwetha
>
>> I much appreciate your consideration of my comments and questions and
>> looking forward to your feedback.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 5:32 AM James Guichard <
>> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear WG:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This email starts a 2 week Working Group Last Call for
>>> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh [1].
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please read this document if you haven=E2=80=99t read the most recent v=
ersion
>>> and send your comments to the SFC WG list no later than September 1st
>>> 2021.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debate=
d
>>> on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this po=
int.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lastly, if you are an author or contributor please response to indicate
>>> whether you know of any undisclosed IPR related to this document.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim & Joel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iet=
f-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePa=
hNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHdTiRE6A$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sfc mailing list
>>> sfc@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc_=
_;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM=
4C7Z0OJKEKMsIVaA$>
>>>
>>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Shwetha,<div>thank yo=
u for the detailed response to my comments. Please feel free to share any u=
pdates you&#39;re considering for the next version. I&#39;ll be glad to wor=
k together on these.</div><div>I have several follow-up notes in-lined belo=
w under the GIM&gt;&gt; tag.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Gr=
eg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmai=
l_attr">On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 6:51 PM Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"monospace">Hi Greg,</font><div><=
font face=3D"monospace"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace">Sorr=
y for the very late reply. Please find responses to your comments inline @S=
hwetha:</font></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 3:=
30 AM Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear Authors and All,<div>I&#39=
;ve read the current version of the draft and have some comments I&#39;d li=
ke to share with you. I much appreciate your thoughts on where this work sh=
ould go considering developments in other IETF WGs. Please find my notes an=
d questions below:</div><div><ul><li>It is stated in the Abstract that:</li=
></ul><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"=
><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOA=
M) records<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0operational and telemetry information in the pac=
ket while the packet<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0traverses a path between two points in=
 the network.<br></div></blockquote><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>But that is the case only for the pre-a=
llocated and incremental trace option=C2=A0types. The <a href=3D"https://ur=
ldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-dir=
ect-export/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAY=
Mo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKE0jphubQ$" target=3D"_blank">Direct Export option</a> d=
oes not write telemetry=C2=A0data into the data packet itself but export te=
lemetry information in a specially constructed packet.=C2=A0</div><div>And =
as we are talking about different IOAM trace options, the question=C2=A0of =
the scope of this document seems appropriate. There is <a href=3D"https://u=
rldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/A0OcGQ5LlNjnj=
fRVp_iUTMYMrcs/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePa=
hNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHOndSFRg$" target=3D"_blank">a WGLC on two IOAM doc=
uments</a> active through September 15th at the IPPM WG. I believe that it =
would be beneficial if we had a single document that describes the applicab=
ility of IOAM in all its functionality defined by documents in IPPM WG. Of =
course, that cannot be a moving target as that would not be helpful. But si=
nce the IPPM WG discusses the progress of two IOAM documents, it could be a=
 great time to address the applicability of <a href=3D"https://urldefense.c=
om/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export=
/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxB=
WM4C7Z0OJKE0jphubQ$" target=3D"_blank">the Direct Export trace type</a> and=
 Loopback and Active flags defined in=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://urldefense.co=
m/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags/__;!!MZ3=
Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJ=
KHO7lReVw$" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags</a>. It would be c=
oncerning to have more than one SFC document describing the applicability o=
f the generic IOAM mechanisms</div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv><font face=3D"monospace"><br></font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace">=
Shwetha&gt; This is a fair point. We will revise the=C2=A0 draft with text =
in the abstract and Section 3 I<span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,253,=
245);color:rgb(0,0,0)">OAM-Type</span>=C2=A0to be updated to include the us=
age of trace and DEX options.=C2=A0 The encapsulation of IOAM options withi=
n NSH itself in its current form already supports all the IOAM Option Type =
defined both from draft-<span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,253,245);co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0)">ietf-ippm-ioam-data and=C2=A0</span>draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-di=
rect-</font><span style=3D"font-family:monospace">export along with the fla=
gs supported within the options. Hence the IOAM-data-field definitions in t=
he draft will remain unchanged.=C2=A0</span></div></div></div></blockquote>=
<div>GIM&gt;&gt; I agree that the definitions of the IOAM data-fields are i=
nvariant in various data plane encapsulations. You likely follow the discus=
sion of the IAOM Direct Export and IOAM flags on the IPPM WG list. I think =
that for SFC NSH, IOAM Direct Export could be as simple as &quot;use the lo=
cal policy&quot;. The applicability of the Loopback and Active flags seems =
to require detailed explanation by SFP actors.</div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0p=
x"><div>=C2=A0</div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><ul><li>The location=
 of the IOAM header in the SFC NSH-encapsulated=C2=A0packet is defined in S=
ection 3:</li></ul></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;borde=
r:none;padding:0px"><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0IOAM-Data-Fields are carried in NSH</=
div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0using a next protocol header which follows the NSH MD=
 context</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0headers.</div></blockquote><blockquote styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div>I&#39;ve checked=
 RFC 8300 but couldn&#39;t find it defines the Next Protocol header. Also, =
it appears that NSH Context headers=C2=A0are optional. Hence my question. I=
s the presence of an NSH Context header required when using IOAM? Could you=
 clarify which mechanism is used to identify the payload of an SFC NSH-enca=
psulated packet as IOAM?</div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace">Shwetha&gt; We will reword it, it is not Next=
 Protocol header but using IOAM as a Next Protocol as described in Section =
4.1 and requested in IANA section. Following is the proposed text to align =
with the RFC 8300 reference to context headers following base header and se=
rvice path header:</span></div><div><font face=3D"monospace">&quot;The NSH =
is defined in [RFC8300].=C2=A0 IOAM-Data-Fields are carried in NSH=C2=A0usi=
ng a next protocol to identify IOAM data fields that follows NSH context he=
aders.&quot;</font></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; I think =
that RFC 8300 views data following Context Headers as NSH payload, not bein=
g &quot;in NSH&quot;.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><ul><li>If I understand th=
e format of the IOAM header defined in Section 3 correctly, the header&#39;=
s length is limited by 1020 octets, while the effective length containing I=
OAM options and data - 1016 octets. Is that correct? What is the recommende=
d technique of collecting IOAM data that exceeds that limit?</li></ul></div=
></div></blockquote><div><font face=3D"monospace">Shwetha &gt; IOAM options=
 inherently support specifying the size limits at the node that added the I=
OAM options. While operationalizing the solution the data types included an=
d number of nodes expected to be adding the data should be selected. This i=
s covered in deployment considerations=C2=A0draft-brockners-opsawg-ioam-dep=
loyment.</font></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div><ul><li>In Section 4.1, I&#39;ve found the text reflectin=
g the history of the discussion about how to carry the IOAM header using NS=
H encapsulation. As the text has no normative value, I suggest moving it in=
to an Appendix.</li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div><font face=3D"monosp=
ace">Shwetha &gt; Agreed, revised draft will have this section moved to App=
endix.=C2=A0</font></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Thank yo=
u.=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><ul><li>I find the rules of handling the O-bi=
t in NSH listed in Section 4.2 inconsistent and confusing. The IOAM header =
is not part of NSH encapsulation but is a part of the payload. But in one c=
ase, when user data follows it, the O-bit must not be set as. If there&#39;=
s no user data after the IOAM header, then the O-bit must be set. But from =
the perspective of NSH encapsulation, it includes specially constructed dat=
a added for the sole purpose of collecting OAM/telemetry information. Then,=
 why, in one case, the O-bit is cleared and in the other set if, in both ca=
ses, the NSH-encapsulated packet is used to perform the OAM function?</li><=
/ul></div></div></blockquote><div><font face=3D"monospace">Shwetha &gt; The=
 reason for not setting the O-bit for packets that contains actual user dat=
a is because RFC 8300 has &quot;<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">      SF/S=
FF/SFC Proxy/Classifier implementations that do not support</span><br></fon=
t></div><pre style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0)">      SFC OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit =
set&quot;. It will be undesirable to discard packets with O-bit set that ca=
rry user data as IOAM can be inserted insitu.</pre><pre style=3D"margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)">For synthetic tr=
affic created for OAM along with IOAM-data-fields in NSH following the NSH =
OAM function with 0-bit set is desirable.  </pre></div></div></blockquote><=
div>=C2=A0GIM&gt;&gt; This is an interesting situation. I agree that there =
could be an SFC element not supporting &quot;SFC OAM procedures&quot; (not =
clear what these are). By the same token, would such SFC element support IO=
AM, be capable of processing IOAM without adverse impact to user data? I am=
 not certain and it seems that it might be better to recommend that NSH pac=
kets with IOAM be dropped by an SFP element if it does not support &quot;SF=
C OAM&quot;. What are your thoughts?</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid r=
gb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e"><div><br></div><div><font face=3D"monospace">Thanks,</font></div><div><f=
ont face=3D"monospace">Shwetha</font>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>I much appreciate your c=
onsideration of my comments and questions and looking forward to your feedb=
ack.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Au=
g 18, 2021 at 5:32 AM James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard=
@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wr=
ote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px=
 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear WG:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This email starts a 2 week Working Group Last Call f=
or draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh [1].<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please read this document if you haven=E2=80=99t rea=
d the most recent version and send your comments to the SFC WG list no late=
r than September 1<sup>st</sup> 2021.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)">If you are raisi=
ng a point which you expect will be specifically debated on the mailing lis=
t, consider using a specific email/thread for this point.<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)">Lastly, if you a=
re an author or contributor please response to indicate whether you know of=
 any undisclosed IPR related to this document.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks!<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jim &amp; Joel<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"color:blac=
k">[1] </span>
<span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://=
datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-=
5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHdTiRE6A$" target=
=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a></=
span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinf=
o/sfc__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFd=
QxxBWM4C7Z0OJKEKMsIVaA$" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.i=
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div></div></div>

--0000000000001c783b05cf5607be--


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From: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2021 14:30:56 -0400
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Subject: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
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Hi,

I believe this draft is ready for WG Last Call. The most recent
revisions have been minor editorial improvements and clarifications.

However, the IETF meeting is coming up and I understand there may be a
Transport Area review. So I suggest there should be a WG Last Call
starting in two or three weeks.

Thanks,
Donald
===============================
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA
 d3e3e3@gmail.com

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 9:36 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt

A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt
has been successfully submitted by Donald E. Eastlake and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
Revision:       08
Title:          Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) and Congestion
Feedback Using the Network Service Header (NSH) and IPFIX
Document date:  2021-10-21
Group:          sfc
Pages:          33
URL:
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support/
Htmlized:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
Diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08

Abstract:
   Explicit congestion notification (ECN) allows a forwarding element to
   notify downstream devices of the onset of congestion without having
   to drop packets. Coupled with a means to feed information about
   congestion back to upstream nodes, this can improve network
   efficiency through better congestion control, frequently without
   packet drops. This document specifies ECN and congestion feedback
   support within a Service Function Chaining (SFC) domain through use
   of the Network Service Header (NSH, RFC 8300) and IP Flow Information
   Export (IPFIX, RFC 7011).





The IETF Secretariat


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Dear Stig,
I would like to expand the section of "Security considerations" to the following text:
A misbehaving node from within the SFC-enabled domain may alter the content of the Context Headers, which may lead to service disruption.  Such an attack is not unique to the Context Headers defined in this document. Measures discussed in Section 8 of [RFC8300] describes the general security considerations for protecting NSH.  [I-D.ietf-sfc-nsh-integrity] specifies methods of protecting the integrity of the NSH metadata. If the NSH includes the MAC Context Header, the authentication of the packet MUST be verified before using any data. If the verification fails, the receiver MUST stop processing the variable length context headers and notify an operator.  

Please review if this could resolve your comments.
Thanks!



Best Regards,
Yuehua Wei
M: +86 13851460269 E: wei.yuehua@zte.com.cn
------------------原始邮件------------------
发件人：StigVenaasviaDatatracker
收件人：rtg-dir@ietf.org;
抄送人：last-call@ietf.org;draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-tlv.all@ietf.org;sfc@ietf.org;
日 期 ：2021年09月30日 08:16
主 题 ：[sfc] Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-tlv-08
Reviewer: Stig Venaas
Review result: Has Issues
Summary:
The document is easy to read and in a good shape.
I have some minor concerns about this document that I think should be resolved
before publication.
Comments:
The document is quite good and easy to read. My only concern is the security
considerations that are rather brief.
Major Issues:
No major issues found.
Minor Issues:
The Security considerations might need more details.
Are there any concerns about incorrect metadata? What are the consequences of
metadata being wrong intentionally, or by accident. When should integrity
protection be used?
_______________________________________________
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
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References: <163486660714.20363.14043413735669079496@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAF4+nEG34eT1N1_Qct2C_rt4T6bnRiqZtvSqE89NzVViaa2sBw@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
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Hi Donald,=20

Thank you for your effort to mature the document.=20

FWIW, please find my review of this version:

* pdf: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/mast=
er/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.pdf=20
* doc: https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-ie=
tf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.docx=20

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> De la part de Donald Eastlake
> Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 27 octobre 2021 20:31
> =C0=A0: sfc@ietf.org
> Cc=A0: draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org
> Objet=A0: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I believe this draft is ready for WG Last Call. The most recent revisions
> have been minor editorial improvements and clarifications.
>=20
> However, the IETF meeting is coming up and I understand there may be a
> Transport Area review. So I suggest there should be a WG Last Call
> starting in two or three weeks.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Donald
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>  Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
>  2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA  d3e3e3@gmail.com
>=20
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Date: Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 9:36 PM
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-
> 08.txt
>=20
> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Donald E. Eastlake and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>=20
> Name:           draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
> Revision:       08
> Title:          Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) and Congestion
> Feedback Using the Network Service Header (NSH) and IPFIX Document date:
> 2021-10-21
> Group:          sfc
> Pages:          33
> URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-
> support/
> Htmlized:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
> Diff:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08
>=20
> Abstract:
>    Explicit congestion notification (ECN) allows a forwarding element to
>    notify downstream devices of the onset of congestion without having
>    to drop packets. Coupled with a means to feed information about
>    congestion back to upstream nodes, this can improve network
>    efficiency through better congestion control, frequently without
>    packet drops. This document specifies ECN and congestion feedback
>    support within a Service Function Chaining (SFC) domain through use
>    of the Network Service Header (NSH, RFC 8300) and IP Flow Information
>    Export (IPFIX, RFC 7011).
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
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Mohamed

Thank you for your extensive review.
Glossing over all the places where you would like the wording to be 
different, I detect the following main points of technical significance:


      The scheme is not how you imagine it - deliberately

Draft (§1.1): "The NSH is a natural place, in a domain where traffic is 
NSH encapsulated, to note congestion"
MB: "I would remove this mention as the outer-transport encapsulation 
would be “more” natural, IMO.  If maintained, you may consider 
s/natural/candidate "

I believe you have 'imagined' a different scheme (that wouldn't work). 
Then, from this point on, you edit the document to describe the scheme 
that you imagine.

But I think you've misunderstood. The outer transports /are/ usually 
ECN-capable. However, unless the congestion information propagates 
onward to something that can feed it back, it is just black-holed, and 
useless. This is why the NSH header is arranged to accumulate any ECN 
marking from each outer transport along an SFP. I'm not sure which of 
the following two options you are imagining, but neither work:
1) EITHER: the header encapsulated within the NSH could be used to 
accumulate congestion information across the SFC-enabled domain. Then 
NSH would have to be defined to require that, as SFs and SFFs strip each 
outer transport header, they propagate any ECN markings into the header 
encapsulated within the NSH. But this would only be legal for those 
packets where that inner header indicates that the e2e transport 
supports ECN. That makes this #2 option depend on e2e ECN deployment, 
which has now reached about 20%, but not close enough to 100% to be 
useful for controlling congestion routing within an SFC-enabled domain.
2) OR: the scheme you imagine consists of a sequence of outer transport 
headers, that are disjoint from the ECN point of view. Then whenever 
there was congestion marking of one of these outer transport headers, it 
would get dumped at the terminating SFF, which would then have to find 
somewhere to feed it back to. If each SFF fed it back to the ingress 
classifier, there would be a huge amount of feedback streams all 
converging on each ingress classifier, compared to the scheme as 
described, which accumulates the information forwards, then feeds it 
back in one message per SFP, from the egress.

I think we've confused you by describing the partially deployed ECN case 
first. Instead, perhaps we should describe the case with ECN deployed 
everywhere within the SFC-enabled domain first, then step back and 
describe partial deployment.

In case it helps, I'll describe the scheme with full ECN deployment:
The scheme uses the NSH (the one that remains associated with the 
packets/frames travelling along each SFP) to collect up any ECN marking 
added by each outer transport encapsulation. These all accumulate{Note 
1} in the NSH headers, for delivery to the egress of the SFC-enabled 
domain, which then regularly feeds back summaries of each path's 
congestion to the ingress. The ingress is then continually collecting a 
view of the congestion of all the SFPs it is using through the 
SFC-enabled domain, which it can use to inform routing decisions (or 
pass this info on to where these decisions are made).


In fact, the draft is primarily about partial ECN deployment - in two 
senses:
1) In theory, for packets to have ECN enabled, the two end-points (e2e) 
have to check that they both support ECN first. {Note 2} Nonetheless, if 
an SFC-enabled domain wants to use ECN to manage itself, it doesn't have 
to wait for all Internet endpoints to support ECN. It can fake ECN 
support edge-to-edge: by the ingress of the SFC-enabled domain turning 
on ECN support in the proposed NSH header it adds, then the egress 
forwards on any congestion markings in the header it decapsulates, 
unless ot sees that the decapsulated inner indicates no ECN support. In 
which case the egress converts an incoming congestion mark into a drop, 
which is the only congestion signal that this particular e2e transport 
understands.
2) Also, some of the SFFs or SFs might not support ECN. So the draft has 
to require all SFFs and SFs, as endpoints of an outer transport 
encapsulation, to check they both support ECN, and otherwise disable it 
in the outer between them. One assumes such cases would be rare in an 
SFC-enabled domain set up to use ECN. But, one has to cater for this 
possibility.


{Note 1}: When I say "accumulate", I mean in the same way ECN 
accumulates congestion marking along any path of network elements. For 
instance, if there are two congestion points on a path, the first one 
might mark 0.1% of packets, and the second might mark 1.2% of packets. 
Then roughly 1.3% of packets will be marked. Actually, the idea is that 
it's combinatorial probability, not additive, which happens naturally, 
because probabilistic marking at each congested point gives you
     [1 - (1-0.001)(1-0.012)] = 1.2988% marking.
For instance, if there was much higher congestion, e.g. 60% marking at 
three points, you would get 1-(1-0.6)(1-0.6)(1-0.6) = 93.6% marking, not 
180% which would be impossible.

{Note 2}: There's about 85% server support of ECN now, but only perhaps 
25% client support (don't quote me on that - it's a guess). So 25%*85% = 
21% of connections are ECN-capable.


      Connection end-points within an SFC-enabled domain

MB (re. §3): "Some of the legacy SFs may terminate TCP connections. 
These SFs will still follow the behavior in Section 6.1 of 3168. No? "
MB: (re. §3.2.2): "I’m afraid there is a deviation when the SF 
terminates the connection. The inner packet will thus be processed as 
per RFC5681 "
MB: (re. Figure 2 in §1.3) An SF may terminate the connection. It can be 
considered as a “final rcvr”.

Correct, but these TCP connections are control or management 
connectionsfor network operations, not forwarded connections.{Note 3} In 
these cases, all the layers are decapsulated on the SF all at once, and 
the path does not traverse an egress of the SFC-enabled domain, so the 
only appropriate congestion feedback loop is the outer one (e2e). This 
document is about creating and using an inner (edge-to-edge) loop, to 
gather congestion information to inform the /SFC/ routing decisions. 
Yes, there will be some control and management connections into that 
domain that are not under that control, but they are still congestion 
controlled end-to-end, they just can't contribute to the edge-to-edge 
congestion feedback.


{Note 3}: An SF by definition forwards packets. Both 'service' and 
'function' are ambiguous words, that would describe a web server, or a 
sandwich dispensing machine for that matter. But, put the words 
together, and you get an SF, which provides a /network/ function. It 
doesn't terminate connections, other than for management and control. 
Yes, it might terminate some packets, as in the DDoS scrubbing machine 
you mention. And it might also drop packets due to congestion. But none 
of this acts as a connection termination at the user plane.


      Responses to some specific comments


§2 "the IPv4 or IPv6 header as defined in Section 23.1 {?} of [RFC3168]"
Section 23.1, is the IANA registration of the codepoints, not thier 
definition. Section 5 is the definition.

* §3. Reason for citing RFC6040, not 
draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim: the latter updates one specific 
part of RFC6040, so the convention is to cite the base RFC, unless only 
the update is relevant.

MB: "Why not simply say that these nodes must adhere to the reco in 
RFC6040? "
Because one cannot mandate that the past should not have happened (let 
alone MUST NOT happen!). This draft is all about incremental deployment

MB: "Why not just saying “all SFFs” as the egress node is the last SFF 
of an SFP?"
When ECN for the SFC-enabled domain is in the NSH (as we have 
deliberately defined it, rather than as you have 'imagined' it) decap 
/is/ only needed and supported at the egress of the domain. That's the 
whole point.

Draft: "This approach will inherently support all known variants of ECN, 
including the experimental L4S capability [RFC8311] [ecnL4S]."
MB: "I’m afraid some more elaboration is needed to back this statement "
Agreed. We need to describe this (probably in an appendix, rather like 
the similar draft about ECN support in TRILL).

MB: "If we want a pluggable detection logic, I would not require AQM as 
required, but just as an example. That approach is what is adopted by 
DC-TCP for example (RFC 8257)."
DCTCP uses an AQM that fits the recommendations of RFC7567, which are 
deliberately already generalized. You only have to read the list of 
recommendation headings from the Contents of RFC7567 to see that it is 
very general. The functions within an SFC-enabled domain still have to 
work with e2e congestion control. So I would strongly advise against 
going off into abstract hyperspace by saying some pluggable function is 
possible that does some other magic sort of active queue management.

Draft: "Congestion encountered in the SFF to SF and SF to SFF paths will 
be unmanaged. "
MB: "Why not handling this at the outer transport? "
This is defined as a case where the SF is ECN-unware. So it can't be 
handled in the outer transport either, because it terminates at a node 
that is ECN-unaware.

§3.2.3
Draft: "Other forwarding nodes, that are non-NSH forwarding nodes 
between NSH forwarding nodes, such as IP or label switched routers, 
might also contain potential bottlenecks. If so, they SHOULD implement 
an AQM"
MB: "This is not specific to SFC. Do we have a pointer where such reco 
is provided for routers? "
Answer: RFC7567

§4
"How the egress knows the ingress for a given chain, a given packet, 
flow, etc?"
Using a lookup against the Service Path Identifier?

Draft: "a flow that would preserve the number of packets in the absence 
of congestion"
MB: "How owns this information?"
This is an important open question that the draft raises, but does not 
answer, I believe. But when I was first involved with this draft, I 
imagined that SFs would have to be registered with a requirement to 
provide this information (boolean).

MB: "When a congestion is observed, to what extend these messages will 
further exacerbate the congestion conditions? "
The use IPFIX over partially reliable SCTP is designed to address this 
(the draft doesn't say the following but it should):
* This designs leads to compact congestion summaries sent regularly (so 
congestion control of user traffic will have already yielded the little 
amount of space this control traffic needs.
* IPFIX uses cumulative counters, so any losses can be retransmitted, 
but no need to repeatedly retransmit because the next one will catch up 
the counter.
* SCTP's partial reliability mode allows retransmission to be abandoned 
after a deadline passes.

§5
Draft: "IPFIX template records are exchanged between ingress and egress "
MB: "Which may be between every SFF and a classifier. "
No. This is the scheme you've imagined, not the one described.


Thank you very much for the time you've taken to review this.

Cheers


Bob


On 28/10/2021 12:52, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
> Hi Donald,
>
> Thank you for your effort to mature the document.
>
> FWIW, please find my review of this version:
>
> * pdf: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/master/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.pdf
> * doc: https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.docx
>
> Cheers,
> Med
>
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> De la part de Donald Eastlake
>> Envoyé : mercredi 27 octobre 2021 20:31
>> À : sfc@ietf.org
>> Cc : draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org
>> Objet : [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I believe this draft is ready for WG Last Call. The most recent revisions
>> have been minor editorial improvements and clarifications.
>>
>> However, the IETF meeting is coming up and I understand there may be a
>> Transport Area review. So I suggest there should be a WG Last Call
>> starting in two or three weeks.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Donald
>> ===============================
>>   Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
>>   2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA  d3e3e3@gmail.com
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>> Date: Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 9:36 PM
>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-
>> 08.txt
>>
>> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Donald E. Eastlake and posted to the
>> IETF repository.
>>
>> Name:           draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
>> Revision:       08
>> Title:          Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) and Congestion
>> Feedback Using the Network Service Header (NSH) and IPFIX Document date:
>> 2021-10-21
>> Group:          sfc
>> Pages:          33
>> URL:
>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt
>> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-
>> support/
>> Htmlized:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
>> Diff:
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08
>>
>> Abstract:
>>     Explicit congestion notification (ECN) allows a forwarding element to
>>     notify downstream devices of the onset of congestion without having
>>     to drop packets. Coupled with a means to feed information about
>>     congestion back to upstream nodes, this can improve network
>>     efficiency through better congestion control, frequently without
>>     packet drops. This document specifies ECN and congestion feedback
>>     support within a Service Function Chaining (SFC) domain through use
>>     of the Network Service Header (NSH, RFC 8300) and IP Flow Information
>>     Export (IPFIX, RFC 7011).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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-- 
________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe                               http://bobbriscoe.net/


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    Mohamed<br>
    <br>
    Thank you for your extensive review.<br>
    Glossing over all the places where you would like the wording to be
    different, I detect the following main points of technical
    significance:<br>
    <br>
    <h3>The scheme is not how you imagine it - deliberately <br>
    </h3>
    Draft (§1.1): "The NSH is a natural place, in a domain where traffic
    is NSH encapsulated, to note congestion"<br>
    MB: "I would remove this mention as the outer-transport
    encapsulation would be “more” natural, IMO.  If maintained, you may
    consider s/natural/candidate "<br>
    <br>
    I believe you have 'imagined' a different scheme (that wouldn't
    work). Then, from this point on, you edit the document to describe
    the scheme that you imagine.<br>
    <br>
    But I think you've misunderstood. The outer transports /are/ usually
    ECN-capable. However, unless the congestion information propagates
    onward to something that can feed it back, it is just black-holed,
    and useless. This is why the NSH header is arranged to accumulate
    any ECN marking from each outer transport along an SFP. I'm not sure
    which of the following two options you are imagining, but neither
    work:<br>
    1) EITHER: the header encapsulated within the NSH could be used to
    accumulate congestion information across the SFC-enabled domain.
    Then NSH would have to be defined to require that, as SFs and SFFs
    strip each outer transport header, they propagate any ECN markings
    into the header encapsulated within the NSH. But this would only be
    legal for those packets where that inner header indicates that the
    e2e transport supports ECN. That makes this #2 option depend on e2e
    ECN deployment, which has now reached about 20%, but not close
    enough to 100% to be useful for controlling congestion routing
    within an SFC-enabled domain.<br>
    2) OR: the scheme you imagine consists of a sequence of outer
    transport headers, that are disjoint from the ECN point of view.
    Then whenever there was congestion marking of one of these outer
    transport headers, it would get dumped at the terminating SFF, which
    would then have to find somewhere to feed it back to. If each SFF
    fed it back to the ingress classifier, there would be a huge amount
    of feedback streams all converging on each ingress classifier,
    compared to the scheme as described, which accumulates the
    information forwards, then feeds it back in one message per SFP,
    from the egress.<br>
    <br>
    I think we've confused you by describing the partially deployed ECN
    case first. Instead, perhaps we should describe the case with ECN
    deployed everywhere within the SFC-enabled domain first, then step
    back and describe partial deployment.<br>
    <br>
    In case it helps, I'll describe the scheme with full ECN deployment:<br>
    The scheme uses the NSH (the one that remains associated with the
    packets/frames travelling along each SFP) to collect up any ECN
    marking added by each outer transport encapsulation. These all
    accumulate{Note 1} in the NSH headers, for delivery to the egress of
    the SFC-enabled domain, which then regularly feeds back summaries of
    each path's congestion to the ingress. The ingress is then
    continually collecting a view of the congestion of all the SFPs it
    is using through the SFC-enabled domain, which it can use to inform
    routing decisions (or pass this info on to where these decisions are
    made).<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    In fact, the draft is primarily about partial ECN deployment - in
    two senses:<br>
    1) In theory, for packets to have ECN enabled, the two end-points
    (e2e) have to check that they both support ECN first. {Note 2}
    Nonetheless, if an SFC-enabled domain wants to use ECN to manage
    itself, it doesn't have to wait for all Internet endpoints to
    support ECN. It can fake ECN support edge-to-edge: by the ingress of
    the SFC-enabled domain turning on ECN support in the proposed NSH
    header it adds, then the egress forwards on any congestion markings
    in the header it decapsulates, unless ot sees that the decapsulated
    inner indicates no ECN support. In which case the egress converts an
    incoming congestion mark into a drop, which is the only congestion
    signal that this particular e2e transport understands.<br>
    2) Also, some of the SFFs or SFs might not support ECN. So the draft
    has to require all SFFs and SFs, as endpoints of an outer transport
    encapsulation, to check they both support ECN, and otherwise disable
    it in the outer between them. One assumes such cases would be rare
    in an SFC-enabled domain set up to use ECN. But, one has to cater
    for this possibility.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    {Note 1}: When I say "accumulate", I mean in the same way ECN
    accumulates congestion marking along any path of network elements.
    For instance, if there are two congestion points on a path, the
    first one might mark 0.1% of packets, and the second might mark 1.2%
    of packets. Then roughly 1.3% of packets will be marked. Actually,
    the idea is that it's combinatorial probability, not additive, which
    happens naturally, because probabilistic marking at each congested
    point gives you <br>
        [1 - (1-0.001)(1-0.012)] = 1.2988% marking. <br>
    For instance, if there was much higher congestion, e.g. 60% marking
    at three points, you would get 1-(1-0.6)(1-0.6)(1-0.6) = 93.6%
    marking, not 180% which would be impossible.<br>
    <br>
    {Note 2}: There's about 85% server support of ECN now, but only
    perhaps 25% client support (don't quote me on that - it's a guess).
    So 25%*85% = 21% of connections are ECN-capable.<br>
    <br>
    <h3>Connection end-points within an SFC-enabled domain</h3>
    MB (re. §3): "Some of the legacy SFs may terminate TCP connections.
    These SFs will still follow the behavior in Section 6.1 of 3168. No?
    "<br>
    MB: (re. §3.2.2): "I’m afraid there is a deviation when the SF
    terminates the connection. The inner packet will thus be processed
    as per RFC5681 "<br>
    MB: (re. Figure 2 in §1.3) <span class="markedContent"
      id="page38R_mcid65"><span style="left: 1171.13px; top: 813.907px;
        font-size: 16.128px; font-family: sans-serif; transform:
        scaleX(0.79961);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">An SF may
        termina</span><span style="left: 1294.68px; top: 813.907px;
        font-size: 16.128px; font-family: sans-serif; transform:
        scaleX(0.804677);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">te the </span><span
        style="left: 1337.35px; top: 813.907px; font-size: 16.128px;
        font-family: sans-serif; transform: scaleX(0.828486);"
        role="presentation" dir="ltr">con</span><span style="left:
        1361.26px; top: 813.907px; font-size: 16.128px; font-family:
        sans-serif; transform: scaleX(0.814973);" role="presentation"
        dir="ltr">nection. </span><span style="left: 1013.14px; top:
        833.731px; font-size: 16.128px; font-family: sans-serif;
        transform: scaleX(0.789674);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">It
        can be c</span><span style="left: 1079.95px; top: 833.731px;
        font-size: 16.128px; font-family: sans-serif; transform:
        scaleX(0.799985);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">onsidered as a
      </span><span style="left: 1178.5px; top: 833.731px; font-size:
        16.128px; font-family: sans-serif;" role="presentation"
        dir="ltr">“</span><span style="left: 1185.17px; top: 833.731px;
        font-size: 16.128px; font-family: sans-serif;"
        role="presentation" dir="ltr">f</span><span style="left:
        1190.14px; top: 833.731px; font-size: 16.128px; font-family:
        sans-serif; transform: scaleX(0.799183);" role="presentation"
        dir="ltr">inal </span><span style="left: 1217.5px; top:
        833.731px; font-size: 16.128px; font-family: sans-serif;
        transform: scaleX(0.811719);" role="presentation" dir="ltr">rcvr</span><span
        style="left: 1242.89px; top: 833.731px; font-size: 16.128px;
        font-family: sans-serif;" role="presentation" dir="ltr">”</span><span
        style="left: 1249.63px; top: 833.731px; font-size: 16.128px;
        font-family: sans-serif;" role="presentation" dir="ltr">.</span><span
        style="left: 1253.71px; top: 833.731px; font-size: 16.128px;
        font-family: sans-serif;" role="presentation" dir="ltr"> </span></span><br>
    <br>
    Correct, but these TCP connections are control or management
    connectionsfor network operations, not forwarded connections.{Note
    3} In these cases, all the layers are decapsulated on the SF all at
    once, and the path does not traverse an egress of the SFC-enabled
    domain, so the only appropriate congestion feedback loop is the
    outer one (e2e). This document is about creating and using an inner
    (edge-to-edge) loop, to gather congestion information to inform the
    /SFC/ routing decisions. Yes, there will be some control and
    management connections into that domain that are not under that
    control, but they are still congestion controlled end-to-end, they
    just can't contribute to the edge-to-edge congestion feedback.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    {Note 3}: An SF by definition forwards packets. Both 'service' and
    'function' are ambiguous words, that would describe a web server, or
    a sandwich dispensing machine for that matter. But, put the words
    together, and you get an SF, which provides a /network/ function. It
    doesn't terminate connections, other than for management and
    control. Yes, it might terminate some packets, as in the DDoS
    scrubbing machine you mention. And it might also drop packets due to
    congestion. But none of this acts as a connection termination at the
    user plane. <br>
    <br>
    <h3>Responses to some specific comments</h3>
    <br>
    §2 "the IPv4 or IPv6 header as defined in Section 23.1 {?} of
    [RFC3168]"<span class="markedContent" id="page42R_mcid51"><span
        style="left: 663.504px; top: 1425.59px; font-size: 18.9504px;
        font-family: monospace; transform: scaleX(0.990006);"
        role="presentation" dir="ltr"></span></span><br>
    Section 23.1, is the IANA registration of the codepoints, not thier
    definition. Section 5 is the definition.<br>
    <br>
    * §3. Reason for citing RFC6040, not
    draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim: the latter updates one specific
    part of RFC6040, so the convention is to cite the base RFC, unless
    only the update is relevant.<br>
    <br>
    MB: "Why not simply say that these nodes must adhere to the reco in
    RFC6040? "<br>
    Because one cannot mandate that the past should not have happened
    (let alone MUST NOT happen!). This draft is all about incremental
    deployment<br>
    <br>
    MB: "Why not just saying “all SFFs” as the egress node is the last
    SFF of an SFP?"<br>
    When ECN for the SFC-enabled domain is in the NSH (as we have
    deliberately defined it, rather than as you have 'imagined' it)
    decap /is/ only needed and supported at the egress of the domain.
    That's the whole point.<br>
    <br>
    Draft: "This approach will inherently support all known variants of
    ECN, including the experimental L4S capability [RFC8311] [ecnL4S]."<br>
    MB: "I’m afraid some more elaboration is needed to back this
    statement "<br>
    Agreed. We need to describe this (probably in an appendix, rather
    like the similar draft about ECN support in TRILL).<br>
    <br>
    MB: "If we want a pluggable detection logic, I would not require AQM
    as required, but just as an example. That approach is what is
    adopted by DC-TCP for example (RFC 8257)."<br>
    DCTCP uses an AQM that fits the recommendations of RFC7567, which
    are deliberately already generalized. You only have to read the list
    of recommendation headings from the Contents of RFC7567 to see that
    it is very general. The functions within an SFC-enabled domain still
    have to work with e2e congestion control. So I would strongly advise
    against going off into abstract hyperspace by saying some pluggable
    function is possible that does some other magic sort of active queue
    management. <br>
    <br>
    Draft: "Congestion encountered in the SFF to SF and SF to SFF paths
    will be unmanaged. "<br>
    MB: "Why not handling this at the outer transport? "<br>
    This is defined as a case where the SF is ECN-unware. So it can't be
    handled in the outer transport either, because it terminates at a
    node that is ECN-unaware.<br>
    <br>
    §3.2.3<br>
    Draft: "Other forwarding nodes, that are non-NSH forwarding nodes
    between NSH forwarding nodes, such as IP or label switched routers,
    might also contain potential bottlenecks. If so, they SHOULD
    implement an AQM"<br>
    <div class="moz-forward-container">MB: "This is not specific to SFC.
      Do we have a pointer where such reco is provided for routers? "<br>
      Answer: RFC7567<br>
      <br>
      §4<br>
      "How the egress knows the ingress for a given chain, a given
      packet, flow, etc?"<br>
      Using a lookup against the Service Path Identifier?<br>
      <br>
      Draft: "a flow that would preserve the number of packets in the
      absence of congestion"<br>
      MB: "How owns this information?"<br>
      This is an important open question that the draft raises, but does
      not answer, I believe. But when I was first involved with this
      draft, I imagined that SFs would have to be registered with a
      requirement to provide this information (boolean).<br>
      <br>
      MB: "When a congestion is observed, to what extend these messages
      will further exacerbate the congestion conditions? "<br>
      The use IPFIX over partially reliable SCTP is designed to address
      this (the draft doesn't say the following but it should):<br>
      * This designs leads to compact congestion summaries sent
      regularly (so congestion control of user traffic will have already
      yielded the little amount of space this control traffic needs. <br>
      * IPFIX uses cumulative counters, so any losses can be
      retransmitted, but no need to repeatedly retransmit because the
      next one will catch up the counter.<br>
      * SCTP's partial reliability mode allows retransmission to be
      abandoned after a deadline passes.<br>
      <br>
      §5<br>
      Draft: "IPFIX template records are exchanged between ingress and
      egress "<br>
      MB: "Which may be between every SFF and a classifier. "<br>
      No. This is the scheme you've imagined, not the one described.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Thank you very much for the time you've taken to review this.<br>
      <br>
      Cheers<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      Bob<br>
    </div>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 28/10/2021 12:52,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:15736_1635421941_617A8EF5_15736_14_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035436EA3@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup">
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Hi Donald, 

Thank you for your effort to mature the document. 

FWIW, please find my review of this version:

* pdf: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://raw.githubusercontent.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/master/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.pdf">https://raw.githubusercontent.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/master/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.pdf</a> 
* doc: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.docx">https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.docx</a> 

Cheers,
Med

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">-----Message d'origine-----
De : sfc <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;sfc-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a> De la part de Donald Eastlake
Envoyé : mercredi 27 octobre 2021 20:31
À : <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a>
Cc : <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org">draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org</a>
Objet : [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support

Hi,

I believe this draft is ready for WG Last Call. The most recent revisions
have been minor editorial improvements and clarifications.

However, the IETF meeting is coming up and I understand there may be a
Transport Area review. So I suggest there should be a WG Last Call
starting in two or three weeks.

Thanks,
Donald
===============================
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com">d3e3e3@gmail.com</a>

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">&lt;internet-drafts@ietf.org&gt;</a>
Date: Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 9:36 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-
08.txt

A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt
has been successfully submitted by Donald E. Eastlake and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
Revision:       08
Title:          Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) and Congestion
Feedback Using the Network Service Header (NSH) and IPFIX Document date:
2021-10-21
Group:          sfc
Pages:          33
URL:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt</a>
Status:         <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn</a>-
support/
Htmlized:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support</a>
Diff:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08</a>

Abstract:
   Explicit congestion notification (ECN) allows a forwarding element to
   notify downstream devices of the onset of congestion without having
   to drop packets. Coupled with a means to feed information about
   congestion back to upstream nodes, this can improve network
   efficiency through better congestion control, frequently without
   packet drops. This document specifies ECN and congestion feedback
   support within a Service Function Chaining (SFC) domain through use
   of the Network Service Header (NSH, RFC 8300) and IP Flow Information
   Export (IPFIX, RFC 7011).





The IETF Secretariat

_______________________________________________
sfc mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a>
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</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe                               <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bobbriscoe.net/">http://bobbriscoe.net/</a></pre>
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From nobody Thu Oct 28 14:27:05 2021
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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2021 17:26:43 -0400
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To: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "lisp@ietf.org" <lisp@ietf.org>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: [sfc] Fwd: FW: NomCom 2021-2022 Call for Community Feedback
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It was noted that the nomcom is still very much asking for feedback, so 
per suggestions from other WG chairs, I am re-posting this call for 
feedback.

Please give the nomcom your input,
Joel

﻿On 10/19/21, 10:28 AM, "NomCom Chair 2021" <nomcom-chair-2021@ietf.org> 
wrote:

     Hi IETF,

     The deadline for nominee acceptance and questionnaire submission 
was yesterday,     Oct 18.

     As of today, Oct 19, NomCom is accepting feedback on nominees for 
    IAB, IESG Area Directors, IETF Trust and LLC Board. NomCom is also 
accepting     feedback on other topics (more on this below).

     You can see the list of nominees for the 2021 nomination cycle at 
 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2021/feedback/__;!!GjvTz_vk!D5mgZpIvFooiJRFGiGuo5Gihs7zePpKnX2yRSM7BrSmGlgCcscNOYEmnGaRe$ 
     [If you are a nominee and submitted a questionnaire your name 
should appear on that page,     otherwise, please let me know.]

     You may provide feedback using the web form. Any submitted feedback is
     encrypted with a key I created and gave only to NomCom members. 
   Without this key, your feedback cannot be seen by the secretariat, 
the     tools people, or any of the management.

     Your feedback through the web form is not anonymous when shown to
     NomCom members as you need an IETF login to provide it.
     You may also send feedback directly to the NomCom via nomcom-2021 
at ietf.org

     If you want to give more anonymous feedback, please contact one 
  of the NomCom members that you trust directly, and ask that person to
     relay the feedback anonymously to the NomCom.

     You can also submit feedback via email to nomcom-chair-2021 at 
ietf.org and I will enter it in the datatracker (one email per 
candidate, please). Please indicate if I should share your identity
     with the full NomCom.

     The positions to be filled and the desired expertise are listed at:
 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2021/__;!!GjvTz_vk!D5mgZpIvFooiJRFGiGuo5Gihs7zePpKnX2yRSM7BrSmGlgCcscNOYHUCFqCv$ 

     Some of you may be aware of the "360-degree reviews" of the current 
IESG ADs:
 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-announce/DecFofU9c-svf_yiCPQDi6nLOQg/__;!!GjvTz_vk!D5mgZpIvFooiJRFGiGuo5Gihs7zePpKnX2yRSM7BrSmGlgCcscNOYPk9Wf6i$ 

     I encourage you to provide that feedback as well. I wish to clarify 
that personnel feedback to     NomCom should be limited to nominees 
(some of which may also be IESG incumbents).
     This should clarify the difference of NomCom feedback with the 
"360-degree reviews".

     NomCom also welcomes feedback on topics related to the nomination 
process.
     Please submit via email as suggested above, although some topics 
may start     showing up in the above feedback web form at
 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2021/feedback/__;!!GjvTz_vk!D5mgZpIvFooiJRFGiGuo5Gihs7zePpKnX2yRSM7BrSmGlgCcscNOYEmnGaRe$ 
.


     Thanks in advance for your feedback - we really value it and 
appreciate your time taken to submit it.

     Gabriel

     Gabriel Montenegro
     IETF NomCom Chair 2021-22
     nomcom-chair-2021 at ietf dot org

     _______________________________________________
     IETF-Announce mailing list
     IETF-Announce@ietf.org
 
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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>
CC: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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References: <163486660714.20363.14043413735669079496@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAF4+nEG34eT1N1_Qct2C_rt4T6bnRiqZtvSqE89NzVViaa2sBw@mail.gmail.com> <15736_1635421941_617A8EF5_15736_14_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035436EA3@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <71f84a07-ed18-0a1f-b4da-b6ace7cae597@bobbriscoe.net>
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Cc: Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
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Med,

On 29/10/2021 07:45, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> Thank you much for the follow up.
>
> Please see inline.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
> *De :* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Bob Briscoe
> *Envoyé :* jeudi 28 octobre 2021 19:11
> *À :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> *Cc :* Donald Eastlake <d3e3e3@gmail.com>; 
> draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
>
> Mohamed
>
> Thank you for your extensive review.
> Glossing over all the places where you would like the wording to be 
> different, I detect the following main points of technical significance:
>
>
>       The scheme is not how you imagine it - deliberately
>
> Draft (§1.1): "The NSH is a natural place, in a domain where traffic 
> is NSH encapsulated, to note congestion"
> MB: "I would remove this mention as the outer-transport encapsulation 
> would be “more” natural, IMO. If maintained, you may consider 
> s/natural/candidate "
>
> I believe you have 'imagined' a different scheme (that wouldn't work). 
> Then, from this point on, you edit the document to describe the scheme 
> that you imagine.
> But I think you've misunderstood. The outer transports /are/ usually 
> ECN-capable.
>
> */[Med] They should if they follow the various guidelines there (6020, 
> 6020update)/*
>
> However, unless the congestion information propagates onward to 
> something that can feed it back, it is just black-holed, and useless.
>
> */[Med] Sure, but this is not specific where the notification is 
> carried. /*
>
>  This is why the NSH header is arranged to accumulate any ECN marking 
> from each outer transport along an SFP. I'm not sure which of the 
> following two options you are imagining, but neither work:
> 1) EITHER: the header encapsulated within the NSH could be used to 
> accumulate congestion information across the SFC-enabled domain. Then 
> NSH would have to be defined to require that, as SFs and SFFs strip 
> each outer transport header, they propagate any ECN markings into the 
> header encapsulated within the NSH. But this would only be legal for 
> those packets where that inner header indicates that the e2e transport 
> supports ECN. That makes this #2 option depend on e2e ECN deployment, 
> which has now reached about 20%, but not close enough to 100% to be 
> useful for controlling congestion routing within an SFC-enabled domain.
> 2) OR: the scheme you imagine consists of a sequence of outer 
> transport headers, that are disjoint from the ECN point of view. Then 
> whenever there was congestion marking of one of these outer transport 
> headers, it would get dumped at the terminating SFF, which would then 
> have to find somewhere to feed it back to. If each SFF fed it back to 
> the ingress classifier, there would be a huge amount of feedback 
> streams all converging on each ingress classifier, compared to the 
> scheme as described, which accumulates the information forwards, then 
> feeds it back in one message per SFP, from the egress.
>
> */[Med] What I had in mind as an alternative is:/*
>
> */* uniform SFF capabilities with regards to ECN in an SFC-enabled 
> domain/*
>
> */* a consistent setting of ECN at both outer and inner headers (this 
> allows in particular a terminating SF when present) /*
>
> */* SFFs to glue the ECN during encap/decap along an SFP./*
>
> */* A control plane that monitors the SFC-enabled domain. /*
>
> */As indicated in my comment, I suggest to use a more factual wording 
> instead of indicating this is “natural”. /*
>
> *OLD: *
>
> *The NSH is a*
>
> *natural place, in a domain where traffic is NSH encapsulated, to note*
>
> *congestion, avoiding possible confusion due, for example, to changes*
>
> *in the outer transport header in different parts of the domain.*
>
> **
>
> *NEW:*
>
> *This document discusses how the NSH can be used to note congestion.**//*
>
>
> I think we've confused you by describing the partially deployed ECN 
> case first. Instead, perhaps we should describe the case with ECN 
> deployed everywhere within the SFC-enabled domain first, then step 
> back and describe partial deployment.
>
> In case it helps, I'll describe the scheme with full ECN deployment:
> The scheme uses the NSH (the one that remains associated with the 
> packets/frames travelling along each SFP) to collect up any ECN 
> marking added by each outer transport encapsulation. These all 
> accumulate{Note 1} in the NSH headers, for delivery to the egress of 
> the SFC-enabled domain, which then regularly feeds back summaries of 
> each path's congestion to the ingress. The ingress is then continually 
> collecting a view of the congestion of all the SFPs it is using 
> through the SFC-enabled domain, which it can use to inform routing 
> decisions (or pass this info on to where these decisions are made).
>
> */[Med] This text is better, indeed. The main difference with what I 
> described above is that NSH is the glue rather than relying on a local 
> treatment at SFFs. /*
>

[BB] I find it rather unusual that you talk relative to the scheme you 
describe. Surely you should be reviewing the scheme described in the 
draft, which doesn't need these magic "local treatments"?


> */Still, I don’t see how an egress can know the ingress of an SFP. 
> There is no such thing in the NSH and in the lookup tables. /*
>

[BB] I know my stuff on ECN, and on NFV. But I haven't been involved in 
SFC specifically, so I rely on my co-authors for a response on this 
question.

> */One side question: when NSH-in-NSH (RFC 8459) is used, do you 
> propagate the notification in all NSH levels?/*
>

[BB] Always only propagate into and out of whatever header is the outer.

>
>
> In fact, the draft is primarily about partial ECN deployment - in two 
> senses:
> 1) In theory, for packets to have ECN enabled, the two end-points 
> (e2e) have to check that they both support ECN first. {Note 2} 
> Nonetheless, if an SFC-enabled domain wants to use ECN to manage 
> itself, it doesn't have to wait for all Internet endpoints to support 
> ECN. It can fake ECN support edge-to-edge: by the ingress of the 
> SFC-enabled domain turning on ECN support in the proposed NSH header 
> it adds, then the egress forwards on any congestion markings in the 
> header it decapsulates, unless ot sees that the decapsulated inner 
> indicates no ECN support. In which case the egress converts an 
> incoming congestion mark into a drop, which is the only congestion 
> signal that this particular e2e transport understands.
>
> */[Med] I liked the faked ECN part even if it was “lost” in the text. 
> I hope you will rework the draft to present this better. The “faked 
> ECN” part is actually what motivates my comment about raising the 
> comment about the intended status to consider Experimental track. /*
>

[BB] That's not new. It's how MPLS checks for the ECN capability 
[RFC5129]. There it's called "per-domain ECT checking", so we should 
probably use that term here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5129#section-3

> *//*
>
>
> 2) Also, some of the SFFs or SFs might not support ECN. So the draft 
> has to require all SFFs and SFs, as endpoints of an outer transport 
> encapsulation, to check they both support ECN, and otherwise disable 
> it in the outer between them. One assumes such cases would be rare in 
> an SFC-enabled domain set up to use ECN. But, one has to cater for 
> this possibility.
>
> */[Med] I would assume that uniform capabilities at least for SFFs. /*
>

[BB] Just SFFs is not enough. I was imagining that many SFs would 
already be written, and not necessarily already support ECN.

>
>
> {Note 1}: When I say "accumulate", I mean in the same way ECN 
> accumulates congestion marking along any path of network elements. For 
> instance, if there are two congestion points on a path, the first one 
> might mark 0.1% of packets, and the second might mark 1.2% of packets. 
> Then roughly 1.3% of packets will be marked. Actually, the idea is 
> that it's combinatorial probability, not additive, which happens 
> naturally, because probabilistic marking at each congested point gives 
> you
>     [1 - (1-0.001)(1-0.012)] = 1.2988% marking.
> For instance, if there was much higher congestion, e.g. 60% marking at 
> three points, you would get 1-(1-0.6)(1-0.6)(1-0.6) = 93.6% marking, 
> not 180% which would be impossible.
>
> {Note 2}: There's about 85% server support of ECN now, but only 
> perhaps 25% client support (don't quote me on that - it's a guess). So 
> 25%*85% = 21% of connections are ECN-capable.
>
>
>       Connection end-points within an SFC-enabled domain
>
> MB (re. §3): "Some of the legacy SFs may terminate TCP connections. 
> These SFs will still follow the behavior in Section 6.1 of 3168. No? "
> MB: (re. §3.2.2): "I’m afraid there is a deviation when the SF 
> terminates the connection. The inner packet will thus be processed as 
> per RFC5681 "
> MB: (re. Figure 2 in §1.3) An SF may terminate the connection. It can 
> be considered as a “final rcvr”.
>
> Correct, but these TCP connections are control or management 
> connectionsfor network operations, not forwarded connections.{Note 3} 
> In these cases, all the layers are decapsulated on the SF all at once, 
> and the path does not traverse an egress of the SFC-enabled domain
>
> */[Med] Not sure to get your point as the egress of an SFP is the last 
> SFF of that chain, which is the SFF that services the terminating SF 
> in this case. /*
>
> , so the only appropriate congestion feedback loop is the outer one 
> (e2e). This document is about creating and using an inner 
> (edge-to-edge) loop, to gather congestion information to inform the 
> /SFC/ routing decisions. Yes, there will be some control and 
> management connections into that domain that are not under that 
> control, but they are still congestion controlled end-to-end, they 
> just can't contribute to the edge-to-edge congestion feedback.
>
> */[Med] The edge-to-edge is somehow “virtual” as any SFF in a domain 
> be the terminating SFF of a chain. /*
>

[BB] OK. We would need to use the correct terminology - I'll leave that 
to Donald as editor. But I'm saying that we don't need to include 
'degenerate' points that act as the egress of the domain at the 
/management/ interfaces of the functions within the domain. But we do 
want {Note 4} to include points where traffic exits the SFC-enabled 
domain into an end-point (see discussion about context head-ends later).

It makes effectively no difference to the overall traffic control 
picture whether management interfaces are included or not, except it 
unnecessarily adds loads of extra feedback report loops about tiny 
amounts of traffic.

{Note 4}: 'We want' is not always 'we need'. In theory a congestion 
routing scheme (aka traffic engineering) can work and remain stable even 
if only a fraction of the traffic is under its control (there's a paper 
by Peter Key on that in the context of multipath routing - can't find it 
right now though).


> */At least, the text should call the case of terminating SFs, what 
> happens when ECN conflicts are observed at various levels (outer, 
> inner, nsh), etc. /*
>

[BB] I don't know what you mean here by 'ECN conflicts'.
Guessing what you mean, I can say that ECN has to propagate up and down 
as layers are added and stripped, and the rules in the draft ensure that 
is so. Then everything should work. And if anything doesn't follow the 
rules (bugs etc), drop will still act as the well-understood congestion 
signal of last resort, because a drop at any layer is a drop at all layers.

>
>
> {Note 3}: An SF by definition forwards packets.
>
> */[Med] An SF is not a forwarder from the SFC architecture. /*
>
> Both 'service' and 'function' are ambiguous words, that would describe 
> a web server, or a sandwich dispensing machine for that matter. But, 
> put the words together, and you get an SF, which provides a /network/ 
> function. It doesn't terminate connections, other than for management 
> and control. Yes, it might terminate some packets, as in the DDoS 
> scrubbing machine you mention. And it might also drop packets due to 
> congestion. But none of this acts as a connection termination at the 
> user plane.
>
> */[Med] Hmm, we don’t make any assumption about the nature of SFs 
> deployed in an SFC-enabled domain. But there are plenty SFs that 
> terminates a connection: this can be content head-end, for example. /*
>

[BB] OK, I was assuming SFs were forwarding functions not endpoints. I 
actually checked the SFC architecture when you said this in your review, 
but I couldn't find anything about it, so I (apparently wrongly) assumed 
that the definition must be the same as for NFV, where forwarding is a 
defining feature of a 'network function'. Whatever, this means we will 
need to distinguish forwarding SFs from endpoint SFs. And we will 
want{Note 4} to define a domain egress at the interface to each endpoint 
function.

>
>       Responses to some specific comments
>
>
> §2 "the IPv4 or IPv6 header as defined in Section 23.1 {?} of [RFC3168]"
> Section 23.1, is the IANA registration of the codepoints, not thier 
> definition. Section 5 is the definition.
>
> */[Med] OK. I hesitated when indicated that section; hence the “?” in 
> the comment. I had a preference for 23.1 because it is really direct 
> to point about the position of ECN bits. /*
>

[BB] Fig 1 & Fig 2 in Section 5 of RFC3168 define the codepoints and the 
position of the field, resp.

> *//*
>
>
>
> * §3. Reason for citing RFC6040, not 
> draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim: the latter updates one specific 
> part of RFC6040, so the convention is to cite the base RFC, unless 
> only the update is relevant.
>
> */[Med] The reason for suggesting to cite the update I-D is that it 
> covers many transports that are considered in SFC, especially the 
> following ones:/*
>
> *//*
>
>    o  GRE (Generic Routing Encapsulation) [RFC2784] and NVGRE (Network
>
>       Virtualization using GRE) [RFC7637];
>
>    o  CAPWAP (Control And Provisioning of Wireless Access Points)
>
>       [RFC5415];
>
>    o  LISP (Locator/Identifier Separation Protocol) [RFC6830];
>
>    o  VXLAN (Virtual eXtensible Local Area Network) [RFC7348] and VXLAN-
>
>       GPE [I-D.ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe];
>
>    o  Geneve [RFC8926];
>
> *//*
>
>
> MB: "Why not simply say that these nodes must adhere to the reco in 
> RFC6040? "
> Because one cannot mandate that the past should not have happened (let 
> alone MUST NOT happen!). This draft is all about incremental deployment
>
> */[Med] see next point/*
>
> MB: "Why not just saying “all SFFs” as the egress node is the last SFF 
> of an SFP?"
> When ECN for the SFC-enabled domain is in the NSH (as we have 
> deliberately defined it, rather than as you have 'imagined' it) decap 
> /is/ only needed and supported at the egress of the domain. That's the 
> whole point.
>
> */[Med] I was actually echoing your text when saying “Section 3.3 
> requires that all the egress nodes …”. Knowing that every SFF can in 
> theory terminate a chain, and thus behave as an, egress for that 
> chain, one can conclude that all SFFs must support it! /*
>

[BB] See earlier about forwarding vs endpoint SFs.

> *//*
>
> Draft: "This approach will inherently support all known variants of 
> ECN, including the experimental L4S capability [RFC8311] [ecnL4S]."
> MB: "I’m afraid some more elaboration is needed to back this statement "
> Agreed. We need to describe this (probably in an appendix, rather like 
> the similar draft about ECN support in TRILL).
>
> */[Med] Thanks. /*
>
>
>
> MB: "If we want a pluggable detection logic, I would not require AQM 
> as required, but just as an example. That approach is what is adopted 
> by DC-TCP for example (RFC 8257)."
> DCTCP uses an AQM that fits the recommendations of RFC7567, which are 
> deliberately already generalized. You only have to read the list of 
> recommendation headings from the Contents of RFC7567 to see that it is 
> very general. The functions within an SFC-enabled domain still have to 
> work with e2e congestion control. So I would strongly advise against 
> going off into abstract hyperspace by saying some pluggable function 
> is possible that does some other magic sort of active queue management.
>
> */[Med] OK./*
>
> Draft: "Congestion encountered in the SFF to SF and SF to SFF paths 
> will be unmanaged. "
> MB: "Why not handling this at the outer transport? "
> This is defined as a case where the SF is ECN-unware. So it can't be 
> handled in the outer transport either, because it terminates at a node 
> that is ECN-unaware.
>
> */[Med] You are right, even if I see it unlikely to have an SF that is 
> NSH-aware but ECN-unaware. /*
>
>
>
> §3.2.3
> Draft: "Other forwarding nodes, that are non-NSH forwarding nodes 
> between NSH forwarding nodes, such as IP or label switched routers, 
> might also contain potential bottlenecks. If so, they SHOULD implement 
> an AQM"
>
> MB: "This is not specific to SFC. Do we have a pointer where such reco 
> is provided for routers? "
> Answer: RFC7567
>
> */[Med] I’m aware of BCP197, but I was looking for a profile document 
> for routers such as draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs. But that ones 
> expired and does not include AQM reco. /*
>
>
>
> §4
> "How the egress knows the ingress for a given chain, a given packet, 
> flow, etc?"
> Using a lookup against the Service Path Identifier?
>
> */[Med] We don’t have such feature in NSH. As currently defined, the 
> feedback mechanism is broken. It is for the same reasons that, for 
> example, the OAM work defines a TLV to indicate where to send a reply 
> back. I’m afraid that you need such a TLV 
> (draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16#section-6.3.1). Please note that 
> there might be several classifiers, reclassification happening on 
> path, etc./*
>

[BB] OK.

>
> Draft: "a flow that would preserve the number of packets in the 
> absence of congestion"
> MB: "How owns this information?"
> This is an important open question that the draft raises, but does not 
> answer, I believe. But when I was first involved with this draft, I 
> imagined that SFs would have to be registered with a requirement to 
> provide this information (boolean).
>
> */[Med] This is an important point to leave without elaboration. 
> Although expired, you may refer to 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-control-plane#section-3.3.3 
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-control-plane#section-3.3.3> 
> as a candidate to feed that information. /*
>
>
>
> MB: "When a congestion is observed, to what extend these messages will 
> further exacerbate the congestion conditions? "
> The use IPFIX over partially reliable SCTP is designed to address this 
> (the draft doesn't say the following but it should):
> * This designs leads to compact congestion summaries sent regularly 
> (so congestion control of user traffic will have already yielded the 
> little amount of space this control traffic needs.
> * IPFIX uses cumulative counters, so any losses can be retransmitted, 
> but no need to repeatedly retransmit because the next one will catch 
> up the counter.
> * SCTP's partial reliability mode allows retransmission to be 
> abandoned after a deadline passes.
>
> *//*
>
> */[Med] These are good additions. Looking forward seeing them 
> integrated. /*
>
>
>
> §5
> Draft: "IPFIX template records are exchanged between ingress and egress "
> MB: "Which may be between every SFF and a classifier. "
> No. This is the scheme you've imagined, not the one described.
>
> *//*
>
> */[Med] Hmm. I guess this is because you assume there are few nodes 
> that behave as egress nodes, but in the SFC architecture the SFF that 
> terminates a chain is the egress! /*
>
>

[BB] Need to distinguish forwarding and endpoint SFs, as already discussed.

Thank you for all this. V helpful.



Bob

>
>
> Thank you very much for the time you've taken to review this.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Bob
>
> On 28/10/2021 12:52, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com 
> <mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>
>     Hi Donald,
>
>     Thank you for your effort to mature the document.
>
>     FWIW, please find my review of this version:
>
>     * pdf:https://raw.githubusercontent.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/master/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.pdf  <https://raw.githubusercontent.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/master/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.pdf>  
>
>     * doc:https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.docx  <https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.docx>  
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     Med
>
>         -----Message d'origine-----
>
>         De : sfc<sfc-bounces@ietf.org>  <mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org>  De la part de Donald Eastlake
>
>         Envoyé : mercredi 27 octobre 2021 20:31
>
>         À :sfc@ietf.org  <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>
>         Cc :draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org  <mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org>
>
>         Objet : [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
>
>         Hi,
>
>         I believe this draft is ready for WG Last Call. The most recent revisions
>
>         have been minor editorial improvements and clarifications.
>
>         However, the IETF meeting is coming up and I understand there may be a
>
>         Transport Area review. So I suggest there should be a WG Last Call
>
>         starting in two or three weeks.
>
>         Thanks,
>
>         Donald
>
>         ===============================
>
>           Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
>
>           2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USAd3e3e3@gmail.com  <mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com>
>
>         ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>
>         From:<internet-drafts@ietf.org>  <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>
>         Date: Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 9:36 PM
>
>         Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-
>
>         08.txt
>
>         A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt
>
>         has been successfully submitted by Donald E. Eastlake and posted to the
>
>         IETF repository.
>
>         Name:           draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support
>
>         Revision:       08
>
>         Title:          Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) and Congestion
>
>         Feedback Using the Network Service Header (NSH) and IPFIX Document date:
>
>         2021-10-21
>
>         Group:          sfc
>
>         Pages:          33
>
>         URL:
>
>         https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt  <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt>
>
>         Status:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn  <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn>-
>
>         support/
>
>         Htmlized:
>
>         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support  <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support>
>
>         Diff:
>
>         https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08  <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08>
>
>         Abstract:
>
>             Explicit congestion notification (ECN) allows a forwarding element to
>
>             notify downstream devices of the onset of congestion without having
>
>             to drop packets. Coupled with a means to feed information about
>
>             congestion back to upstream nodes, this can improve network
>
>             efficiency through better congestion control, frequently without
>
>             packet drops. This document specifies ECN and congestion feedback
>
>             support within a Service Function Chaining (SFC) domain through use
>
>             of the Network Service Header (NSH, RFC 8300) and IP Flow Information
>
>             Export (IPFIX, RFC 7011).
>
>         The IETF Secretariat
>
>         _______________________________________________
>
>         sfc mailing list
>
>         sfc@ietf.org  <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
>
>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc  <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>
>     _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
>     Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>
>     pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>
>     a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>
>     Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>
>     This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
>
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>
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>
>     As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
>
>     Thank you.
>
>
>
> -- 
> ________________________________________________________________
> Bob Briscoehttp://bobbriscoe.net/  <http://bobbriscoe.net/>
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.

-- 
________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe                               http://bobbriscoe.net/


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    Med,<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 29/10/2021 07:45,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26060_1635489943_617B9897_26060_2_12_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035437741@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hi Bob,
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Thank you
            much for the follow up.
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Please
            see inline.
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Med<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm
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          <div>
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              <p class="MsoNormal"><b>De :</b> sfc
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org">&lt;sfc-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a> <b>De la part de</b> Bob
                Briscoe<br>
                <b>Envoyé :</b> jeudi 28 octobre 2021 19:11<br>
                <b>À :</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">&lt;mohamed.boucadair@orange.com&gt;</a><br>
                <b>Cc :</b> Donald Eastlake <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com">&lt;d3e3e3@gmail.com&gt;</a>;
                <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org">draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sfc@ietf.org">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
                <b>Objet :</b> Re: [sfc] Status of
                draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Mohamed<br>
            <br>
            Thank you for your extensive review.<br>
            Glossing over all the places where you would like the
            wording to be different, I detect the following main points
            of technical significance:<o:p></o:p></p>
          <h3>The scheme is not how you imagine it - deliberately <o:p></o:p></h3>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
              lang="EN-US">Draft (§1.1): "The NSH is a natural place, in
              a domain where traffic is NSH encapsulated, to note
              congestion"<br>
              MB: "I would remove this mention as the outer-transport
              encapsulation would be “more” natural, IMO. 
            </span>If maintained, you may consider s/natural/candidate "<br>
            <br>
            I believe you have 'imagined' a different scheme (that
            wouldn't work). <span lang="EN-US">
              Then, from this point on, you edit the document to
              describe the scheme that you imagine.<br>
              But I think you've misunderstood. </span>The outer
            transports /are/ usually ECN-capable.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] They should if they
                  follow the various guidelines there (6020, 6020update)<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
              lang="EN-US">However, unless the congestion information
              propagates onward to something that can feed it back, it
              is just black-holed, and useless.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] Sure, but this is not
                  specific where the notification is carried.
                  <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
              lang="EN-US"> This is why the NSH header is arranged to
              accumulate any ECN marking from each outer transport along
              an SFP.
            </span>I'm not sure which of the following two options you
            are imagining, but neither work:<br>
            1) EITHER: the header encapsulated within the NSH could be
            used to accumulate congestion information across the
            SFC-enabled domain. Then NSH would have to be defined to
            require that, as SFs and SFFs strip each outer transport
            header, they propagate any ECN markings into the header
            encapsulated within the NSH. But this would only be legal
            for those packets where that inner header indicates that the
            e2e transport supports ECN. That makes this #2 option depend
            on e2e ECN deployment, which has now reached about 20%, but
            not close enough to 100% to be useful for controlling
            congestion routing within an SFC-enabled domain.<br>
            2) OR: the scheme you imagine consists of a sequence of
            outer transport headers, that are disjoint from the ECN
            point of view. Then whenever there was congestion marking of
            one of these outer transport headers, it would get dumped at
            the terminating SFF, which would then have to find somewhere
            to feed it back to. If each SFF fed it back to the ingress
            classifier, there would be a huge amount of feedback streams
            all converging on each ingress classifier, compared to the
            scheme as described, which accumulates the information
            forwards, then feeds it back in one message per SFP, from
            the egress.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] What I had in mind as an
                  alternative is:<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">* uniform SFF capabilities
                  with regards to ECN in an SFC-enabled domain<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">* a consistent setting of ECN
                  at both outer and inner headers (this allows in
                  particular a terminating SF when present)
                  <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">* SFFs to glue the ECN during
                  encap/decap along an SFP.<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">* A control plane that
                  monitors the SFC-enabled domain.
                  <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">As indicated in my comment, I
                  suggest to use a more factual wording instead of
                  indicating this is “natural”.
                  <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoCommentText"><b><span lang="EN-US">OLD: <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span
                style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;" lang="EN-US">The
                NSH is a<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span
                style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;" lang="EN-US">  
                natural place, in a domain where traffic is NSH
                encapsulated, to note<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span
                style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;" lang="EN-US">  
                congestion, avoiding possible confusion due, for
                example, to changes<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><b><span
                style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;" lang="EN-US">  
                in the outer transport header in different parts of the
                domain.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
          <p class="MsoCommentText"><b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
          <p class="MsoCommentText"><b><span lang="EN-US">NEW:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
                style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;" lang="EN-US">This
                document discusses how the NSH can be used to note
                congestion.</span></b><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
              lang="EN-US"><br>
              I think we've confused you by describing the partially
              deployed ECN case first. </span>
            Instead, perhaps we should describe the case with ECN
            deployed everywhere within the SFC-enabled domain first,
            then step back and describe partial deployment.<br>
            <br>
            In case it helps, I'll describe the scheme with full ECN
            deployment:<br>
            The scheme uses the NSH (the one that remains associated
            with the packets/frames travelling along each SFP) to
            collect up any ECN marking added by each outer transport
            encapsulation. These all accumulate{Note 1} in the NSH
            headers, for delivery to the egress of the SFC-enabled
            domain, which then regularly feeds back summaries of each
            path's congestion to the ingress. The ingress is then
            continually collecting a view of the congestion of all the
            SFPs it is using through the SFC-enabled domain, which it
            can use to inform routing decisions (or pass this info on to
            where these decisions are made).<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] This text is better,
                  indeed. The main difference with what I described
                  above is that NSH is the glue rather than relying on a
                  local treatment at SFFs. </span></i></b></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    [BB] I find it rather unusual that you talk relative to the scheme
    you describe. Surely you should be reviewing the scheme described in
    the draft, which doesn't need these magic "local treatments"? <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26060_1635489943_617B9897_26060_2_12_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035437741@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup">
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          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">Still, I don’t see how an
                  egress can know the ingress of an SFP. There is no
                  such thing in the NSH and in the lookup tables. </span></i></b></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    [BB] I know my stuff on ECN, and on NFV. But I haven't been involved
    in SFC specifically, so I rely on my co-authors for a response on
    this question.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26060_1635489943_617B9897_26060_2_12_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035437741@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup">
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          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">One side question: when
                  NSH-in-NSH (RFC 8459) is used, do you propagate the
                  notification in all NSH levels?</span></i></b><span
              lang="EN-US"><br>
            </span></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    [BB] Always only propagate into and out of whatever header is the
    outer.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26060_1635489943_617B9897_26060_2_12_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035437741@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup">
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          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
              lang="EN-US">
              <br>
              <br>
              In fact, the draft is primarily about partial ECN
              deployment - in two senses:<br>
              1) In theory, for packets to have ECN enabled, the two
              end-points (e2e) have to check that they both support ECN
              first.
            </span>{Note 2} Nonetheless, if an SFC-enabled domain wants
            to use ECN to manage itself, it doesn't have to wait for all
            Internet endpoints to support ECN. It can fake ECN support
            edge-to-edge: by the ingress of the SFC-enabled domain
            turning on ECN support in the proposed NSH header it adds,
            then the egress forwards on any congestion markings in the
            header it decapsulates, unless ot sees that the decapsulated
            inner indicates no ECN support. In which case the egress
            converts an incoming congestion mark into a drop, which is
            the only congestion signal that this particular e2e
            transport understands.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] I liked the faked ECN
                  part even if it was “lost” in the text. I hope you
                  will rework the draft to present this better. The
                  “faked ECN” part is actually what motivates my comment
                  about raising the comment about the intended status to
                  consider Experimental track.
                </span></i></b></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    [BB] That's not new. It's how MPLS checks for the ECN capability
    [RFC5129]. There it's called "per-domain ECT checking", so we should
    probably use that term here:<br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5129#section-3">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc5129#section-3</a><br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26060_1635489943_617B9897_26060_2_12_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035437741@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup">
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          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
              lang="EN-US"><br>
              2) Also, some of the SFFs or SFs might not support ECN. </span>So
            the draft has to require all SFFs and SFs, as endpoints of
            an outer transport encapsulation, to check they both support
            ECN, and otherwise disable it in the outer between them. One
            assumes such cases would be rare in an SFC-enabled domain
            set up to use ECN. But, one has to cater for this
            possibility.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] I would assume that
                  uniform capabilities at least for SFFs.  </span></i></b><span
              lang="EN-US"><br>
            </span></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    [BB] Just SFFs is not enough. I was imagining that many SFs would
    already be written, and not necessarily already support ECN.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26060_1635489943_617B9897_26060_2_12_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035437741@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup">
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          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
              lang="EN-US">
              <br>
              <br>
              {Note 1}: When I say "accumulate", I mean in the same way
              ECN accumulates congestion marking along any path of
              network elements.
            </span>For instance, if there are two congestion points on a
            path, the first one might mark 0.1% of packets, and the
            second might mark 1.2% of packets. Then roughly 1.3% of
            packets will be marked. Actually, the idea is that it's
            combinatorial probability, not additive, which happens
            naturally, because probabilistic marking at each congested
            point gives you
            <br>
                [1 - (1-0.001)(1-0.012)] = 1.2988% marking. <br>
            For instance, if there was much higher congestion, e.g. 60%
            marking at three points, you would get
            1-(1-0.6)(1-0.6)(1-0.6) = 93.6% marking, not 180% which
            would be impossible.<br>
            <br>
            {Note 2}: There's about 85% server support of ECN now, but
            only perhaps 25% client support (don't quote me on that -
            it's a guess). So 25%*85% = 21% of connections are
            ECN-capable.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <h3>Connection end-points within an SFC-enabled domain<o:p></o:p></h3>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">MB (re. §3):
            "Some of the legacy SFs may terminate TCP connections. These
            SFs will still follow the behavior in Section 6.1 of 3168.
            No? "<br>
            MB: (re. §3.2.2): "I’m afraid there is a deviation when the
            SF terminates the connection. The inner packet will thus be
            processed as per RFC5681 "<br>
            MB: (re. Figure 2 in §1.3) <span class="markedcontent"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif">An SF
                may terminate the connection. It can be considered as a
                “final rcvr”.
              </span></span><br>
            <br>
            Correct, but these TCP connections are control or management
            connectionsfor network operations, not forwarded
            connections.{Note 3} In these cases, all the layers are
            decapsulated on the SF all at once, and the path does not
            traverse an egress of the SFC-enabled domain<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] Not sure to get your
                  point as the egress of an SFP is the last SFF of that
                  chain, which is the SFF that services the terminating
                  SF in this case. </span></i></b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
              lang="EN-US">, so the only appropriate congestion feedback
              loop is the outer one (e2e).
            </span>This document is about creating and using an inner
            (edge-to-edge) loop, to gather congestion information to
            inform the /SFC/ routing decisions. Yes, there will be some
            control and management connections into that domain that are
            not under that control, but they are still congestion
            controlled end-to-end, they just can't contribute to the
            edge-to-edge congestion feedback.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] The edge-to-edge is
                  somehow “virtual” as any SFF in a domain be the
                  terminating SFF of a chain. </span></i></b></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    [BB] OK. We would need to use the correct terminology - I'll leave
    that to Donald as editor. But I'm saying that we don't need to
    include 'degenerate' points that act as the egress of the domain at
    the /management/ interfaces of the functions within the domain. But
    we do want {Note 4} to include points where traffic exits the
    SFC-enabled domain into an end-point (see discussion about context
    head-ends later).<br>
    <br>
    It makes effectively no difference to the overall traffic control
    picture whether management interfaces are included or not, except it
    unnecessarily adds loads of extra feedback report loops about tiny
    amounts of traffic. <br>
    <br>
    {Note 4}: 'We want' is not always 'we need'. In theory a congestion
    routing scheme (aka traffic engineering) can work and remain stable
    even if only a fraction of the traffic is under its control (there's
    a paper by Peter Key on that in the context of multipath routing -
    can't find it right now though).<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26060_1635489943_617B9897_26060_2_12_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035437741@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup">
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          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">At least, the text should call
                  the case of terminating SFs, what happens when ECN
                  conflicts are observed at various levels (outer,
                  inner, nsh), etc.  </span></i></b><span lang="EN-US"><br>
            </span></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    [BB] I don't know what you mean here by 'ECN conflicts'. <br>
    Guessing what you mean, I can say that ECN has to propagate up and
    down as layers are added and stripped, and the rules in the draft
    ensure that is so. Then everything should work. And if anything
    doesn't follow the rules (bugs etc), drop will still act as the
    well-understood congestion signal of last resort, because a drop at
    any layer is a drop at all layers.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26060_1635489943_617B9897_26060_2_12_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035437741@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup">
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          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
              lang="EN-US">
              <br>
              <br>
              {Note 3}: An SF by definition forwards packets. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] An SF is not a forwarder
                  from the SFC architecture.
                  <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
              lang="EN-US">Both 'service' and 'function' are ambiguous
              words, that would describe a web server, or a sandwich
              dispensing machine for that matter.
            </span>But, put the words together, and you get an SF, which
            provides a /network/ function. It doesn't terminate
            connections, other than for management and control. Yes, it
            might terminate some packets, as in the DDoS scrubbing
            machine you mention. And it might also drop packets due to
            congestion. But none of this acts as a connection
            termination at the user plane.
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] Hmm, we don’t make any
                  assumption about the nature of SFs deployed in an
                  SFC-enabled domain. But there are plenty SFs that
                  terminates a connection: this can be content head-end,
                  for example. </span></i></b></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    [BB] OK, I was assuming SFs were forwarding functions not endpoints.
    I actually checked the SFC architecture when you said this in your
    review, but I couldn't find anything about it, so I (apparently
    wrongly) assumed that the definition must be the same as for NFV,
    where forwarding is a defining feature of a 'network function'.
    Whatever, this means we will need to distinguish forwarding SFs from
    endpoint SFs. And we will want{Note 4} to define a domain egress at
    the interface to each endpoint function.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26060_1635489943_617B9897_26060_2_12_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035437741@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup">
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          <h3><span lang="EN-US">Responses to some specific comments<o:p></o:p></span></h3>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
            </span>§2 "the IPv4 or IPv6 header as defined in Section
            23.1 {?} of [RFC3168]"<br>
            Section 23.1, is the IANA registration of the codepoints,
            not thier definition. Section 5 is the definition.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] OK. I hesitated when
                  indicated that section; hence the “?” in the comment.
                  I had a preference for 23.1 because it is really
                  direct to point about the position of ECN bits. </span></i></b></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    [BB] Fig 1 &amp; Fig 2 in Section 5 of RFC3168 define the codepoints
    and the position of the field, resp.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26060_1635489943_617B9897_26060_2_12_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035437741@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm
          0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
              <br>
              * §3. Reason for citing RFC6040, not
              draft-ietf-tsvwg-rfc6040update-shim: the latter updates
              one specific part of RFC6040, so the convention is to cite
              the base RFC, unless only the update is relevant.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] The reason for
                  suggesting to cite the update I-D is that it covers
                  many transports that are considered in SFC, especially
                  the following ones:<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;" lang="EN-US">   o  GRE (Generic Routing
              Encapsulation) [RFC2784] and NVGRE (Network<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;" lang="EN-US">      Virtualization using GRE)
              [RFC7637];<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;" lang="EN-US">   o  CAPWAP (Control And
              Provisioning of Wireless Access Points)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;" lang="EN-US">      [RFC5415];<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;" lang="EN-US">   o  LISP (Locator/Identifier
              Separation Protocol) [RFC6830];<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;" lang="EN-US">   o  VXLAN (Virtual eXtensible
              Local Area Network) [RFC7348] and VXLAN-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;" lang="EN-US">      GPE
              [I-D.ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe];<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
              New&quot;" lang="EN-US">   o  Geneve [RFC8926];<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
              MB: "Why not simply say that these nodes must adhere to
              the reco in RFC6040? </span>
            "<br>
            Because one cannot mandate that the past should not have
            happened (let alone MUST NOT happen!). This draft is all
            about incremental deployment<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] see next point</span></i></b><span
              lang="EN-US"><br>
              <br>
              MB: "Why not just saying “all SFFs” as the egress node is
              the last SFF of an SFP?"<br>
            </span>When ECN for the SFC-enabled domain is in the NSH (as
            we have deliberately defined it, rather than as you have
            'imagined' it) decap /is/ only needed and supported at the
            egress of the domain. That's the whole point.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] I was actually echoing
                  your text when saying “Section 3.3 requires that all
                  the egress nodes …”. Knowing that every SFF can in
                  theory terminate a chain, and thus behave as an,
                  egress for that chain, one can conclude that all SFFs
                  must support it! </span></i></b></p>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    [BB] See earlier about forwarding vs endpoint SFs.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26060_1635489943_617B9897_26060_2_12_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035437741@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm
          0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US"> </span></i></b><span
              lang="EN-US"><br>
              <br>
              Draft: "This approach will inherently support all known
              variants of ECN, including the experimental L4S capability
              [RFC8311] [ecnL4S]."<br>
            </span>MB: "I’m afraid some more elaboration is needed to
            back this statement "<br>
            Agreed. We need to describe this (probably in an appendix,
            rather like the similar draft about ECN support in TRILL).<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;">[Med] Thanks.
                  <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
            <br>
            MB: "If we want a pluggable detection logic, I would not
            require AQM as required, but just as an example. That
            approach is what is adopted by DC-TCP for example (RFC
            8257)."<br>
            DCTCP uses an AQM that fits the recommendations of RFC7567,
            which are deliberately already generalized. You only have to
            read the list of recommendation headings from the Contents
            of RFC7567 to see that it is very general. The functions
            within an SFC-enabled domain still have to work with e2e
            congestion control. So I would strongly advise against going
            off into abstract hyperspace by saying some pluggable
            function is possible that does some other magic sort of
            active queue management.
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] OK.</span></i></b><span
              lang="EN-US"><br>
              <br>
              Draft: "Congestion encountered in the SFF to SF and SF to
              SFF paths will be unmanaged.
            </span>"<br>
            MB: "Why not handling this at the outer transport? "<br>
            This is defined as a case where the SF is ECN-unware. So it
            can't be handled in the outer transport either, because it
            terminates at a node that is ECN-unaware.<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                  New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] You are right, even if I
                  see it unlikely to have an SF that is NSH-aware but
                  ECN-unaware.
                  <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
              <br>
              §3.2.3<br>
              Draft: "Other forwarding nodes, that are non-NSH
              forwarding nodes between NSH forwarding nodes, such as IP
              or label switched routers, might also contain potential
              bottlenecks.
            </span>If so, they SHOULD implement an AQM"<o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">MB: "This is not specific to SFC. Do we
              have a pointer where such reco is provided for routers? "<br>
              Answer: RFC7567<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                    New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] I’m aware of BCP197,
                    but I was looking for a profile document for routers
                    such as draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs. But that ones
                    expired and does not include AQM reco. <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <br>
                §4<br>
                "How the egress knows the ingress for a given chain, a
                given packet, flow, etc?"<br>
              </span>Using a lookup against the Service Path Identifier?<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                    New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] We don’t have such
                    feature in NSH. As currently defined, the feedback
                    mechanism is broken. It is for the same reasons
                    that, for example, the OAM work defines a TLV to
                    indicate where to send a reply back. I’m afraid that
                    you need such a TLV
                    (draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16#section-6.3.1).
                    Please note that there might be several classifiers,
                    reclassification happening on path, etc.</span></i></b><span
                lang="EN-US"><br>
              </span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    [BB] OK.<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26060_1635489943_617B9897_26060_2_12_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035437741@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm
          0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">
                <br>
                Draft: "a flow that would preserve the number of packets
                in the absence of congestion"<br>
                MB: "How owns this information?"<br>
              </span>This is an important open question that the draft
              raises, but does not answer, I believe. But when I was
              first involved with this draft, I imagined that SFs would
              have to be registered with a requirement to provide this
              information (boolean).<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                    New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] This is an important
                    point to leave without elaboration. Although
                    expired, you may refer to
                    <a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-control-plane#section-3.3.3"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-control-plane#section-3.3.3</a>
                    as a candidate to feed that information.
                    <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <br>
                MB: "When a congestion is observed, to what extend these
                messages will further exacerbate the congestion
                conditions?
              </span>"<br>
              The use IPFIX over partially reliable SCTP is designed to
              address this (the draft doesn't say the following but it
              should):<br>
              * This designs leads to compact congestion summaries sent
              regularly (so congestion control of user traffic will have
              already yielded the little amount of space this control
              traffic needs.
              <br>
              * IPFIX uses cumulative counters, so any losses can be
              retransmitted, but no need to repeatedly retransmit
              because the next one will catch up the counter.<br>
              * SCTP's partial reliability mode allows retransmission to
              be abandoned after a deadline passes.<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                    New&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                    New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] These are good
                    additions. Looking forward seeing them integrated.
                    <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
                <br>
                §5<br>
                Draft: "IPFIX template records are exchanged between
                ingress and egress "<br>
                MB: "Which may be between every SFF and a classifier. </span>"<br>
              No. This is the scheme you've imagined, not the one
              described.<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                    New&quot;" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier
                    New&quot;" lang="EN-US">[Med] Hmm. I guess this is
                    because you assume there are few nodes that behave
                    as egress nodes, but in the SFC architecture the SFF
                    that terminates a chain is the egress! <o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><br>
              </span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    [BB] Need to distinguish forwarding and endpoint SFs, as already
    discussed.<br>
    <br>
    Thank you for all this. V helpful.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Bob<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:26060_1635489943_617B9897_26060_2_12_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035437741@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm
          0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">
                <br>
                <br>
                Thank you very much for the time you've taken to review
                this.<br>
                <br>
              </span>Cheers<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              Bob<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On 28/10/2021 12:52, <a
                href="mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com"
                moz-do-not-send="true">
                mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <pre>Hi Donald, <o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
            <pre>Thank you for your effort to mature the document. <o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
            <pre>FWIW, please find my review of this version:<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
            <pre>* pdf: <a href="https://raw.githubusercontent.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/master/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.pdf" moz-do-not-send="true">https://raw.githubusercontent.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/master/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.pdf</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre>* doc: <a href="https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.docx" moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08-rev%20Med.docx</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
            <pre>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre>Med<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <pre>-----Message d'origine-----<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>De : sfc <a href="mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;sfc-bounces@ietf.org&gt;</a> De la part de Donald Eastlake<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Envoyé : mercredi 27 octobre 2021 20:31<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>À : <a href="mailto:sfc@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">sfc@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Cc : <a href="mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Objet : [sfc] Status of draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre>Hi,<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre>I believe this draft is ready for WG Last Call. The most recent revisions<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>have been minor editorial improvements and clarifications.<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre>However, the IETF meeting is coming up and I understand there may be a<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Transport Area review. So I suggest there should be a WG Last Call<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>starting in two or three weeks.<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Donald<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>===============================<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre> Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre> 2386 Panoramic Circle, Apopka, FL 32703 USA  <a href="mailto:d3e3e3@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">d3e3e3@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre>---------- Forwarded message ---------<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>From: <a href="mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;internet-drafts@ietf.org&gt;</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Date: Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 9:36 PM<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>08.txt<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre>A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>has been successfully submitted by Donald E. Eastlake and posted to the<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>IETF repository.<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre>Name:           draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Revision:       08<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Title:          Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) and Congestion<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Feedback Using the Network Service Header (NSH) and IPFIX Document date:<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>2021-10-21<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Group:          sfc<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Pages:          33<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>URL:<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><a href="https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08.txt</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Status:         <a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn" moz-do-not-send="true">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn</a>-<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>support/<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Htmlized:<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support" moz-do-not-send="true">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>Diff:<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><a href="https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-nsh-ecn-support-08</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre>Abstract:<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>   Explicit congestion notification (ECN) allows a forwarding element to<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>   notify downstream devices of the onset of congestion without having<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>   to drop packets. Coupled with a means to feed information about<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>   congestion back to upstream nodes, this can improve network<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>   efficiency through better congestion control, frequently without<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>   packet drops. This document specifies ECN and congestion feedback<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>   support within a Service Function Chaining (SFC) domain through use<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>   of the Network Service Header (NSH, RFC 8300) and IP Flow Information<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>   Export (IPFIX, RFC 7011).<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre>The IETF Secretariat<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
              <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre>sfc mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><a href="mailto:sfc@ietf.org" moz-do-not-send="true">sfc@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
              <pre><a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
            </blockquote>
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
            <pre>_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
            <pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre>a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
            <pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre>Thank you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
          </blockquote>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></p>
          <pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre>________________________________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
          <pre>Bob Briscoe                               <a href="http://bobbriscoe.net/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://bobbriscoe.net/</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
        </div>
      </div>
      <pre>_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe                               <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://bobbriscoe.net/">http://bobbriscoe.net/</a></pre>
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2021 19:22:36 -0400
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Dear SFC Chairs

I am not aware of any undisclosed IPR.

Kind Regards

Gyan
On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 2:03 PM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:

> While we are conducting the last call, and deciding who will shepherd
> this document...
> 1) If anyone would like to shepherd it, please let me or Jim know.
> 2) Would the authors and key contributors please confirm to the lsit
> that all known relevant IPR has been disclosed.
>
> Thank you,
> Joel
>
> On 10/19/2021 12:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> > Dear Jim and Joel,
> > we've completed merging the substantive parts of two SFC OAM drafts.
> > Many thanks to Med for his thorough reviews, thoughtful comments that
> > helped us improve the document. The authors believe that the draft is
> > stable and is ready for the WG LC. We greatly appreciate your
> > consideration of starting the WG LC and are committed to addressing
> > questions and comments.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Greg (on behalf off the authors)
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>>
> > Date: Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:33 AM
> > Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt
> > To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org>>
> > Cc: <sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>>
> >
> >
> >
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> > directories.
> > This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the
> IETF.
> >
> >          Title           : Active OAM for Service Function Chaining
> >          Authors         : Greg Mirsky
> >                            Wei Meng
> >                            Ting Ao
> >                            Kent Leung
> >                            Gyan Mishra
> >          Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt
> >          Pages           : 37
> >          Date            : 2021-10-19
> >
> > Abstract:
> >     A set of requirements for active Operation, Administration, and
> >     Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs) in a network is
> >     presented in this document.  Based on these requirements, an
> >     encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a mechanism to detect
> >     and localize defects are described.
> >
> >     This document updates RFC 8300.  Particularly, it updates the
> >     definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service Header (NSH) (RFC
> >     8300) and defines how an active OAM message is identified in the NSH.
> >
> >
> > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/
> > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/>
> >
> > There is also an HTML version available at:
> > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.html
> > <https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.html>
> >
> > A diff from the previous version is available at:
> > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16
> > <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16>
> >
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ <ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sfc mailing list
> > sfc@ietf.org <mailto:sfc@ietf.org>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
> > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc
>
-- 

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *

*Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>*



*M 301 502-1347*

--000000000000dea49205cf861ac1
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Dear SFC Chairs=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"aut=
o"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I am not aware of any undisclosed IPR.</div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Kind Regards=C2=A0</div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at=
 2:03 PM Joel M. Halpern &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com">jmh@joe=
lhalpern.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">While w=
e are conducting the last call, and deciding who will shepherd <br>
this document...<br>
1) If anyone would like to shepherd it, please let me or Jim know.<br>
2) Would the authors and key contributors please confirm to the lsit <br>
that all known relevant IPR has been disclosed.<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
Joel<br>
<br>
On 10/19/2021 12:39 PM, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
&gt; Dear Jim and Joel,<br>
&gt; we&#39;ve completed merging the substantive parts of two SFC OAM draft=
s. <br>
&gt; Many thanks to Med for his thorough reviews, thoughtful comments that =
<br>
&gt; helped us improve the document. The authors believe that the draft is =
<br>
&gt; stable and is ready for the WG LC. We greatly appreciate your <br>
&gt; consideration of starting the WG LC and are committed to addressing <b=
r>
&gt; questions and comments.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; Greg (on behalf off the authors)<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; ---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>
&gt; From: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; Date: Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 9:33 AM<br>
&gt; Subject: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt<br>
&gt; To: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i-d=
-announce@ietf.org</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org" =
target=3D"_blank">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org=
</a> &lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts <br=
>
&gt; directories.<br>
&gt; This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the I=
ETF.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0: Active OAM for Service Function Chaining<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0: Greg Mirsky<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wei Meng<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ting Ao<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Kent Leung<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gyan Mishra<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
: draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.txt<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0: 37<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 : 2021-10-19<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Abstract:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A set of requirements for active Operation, Adminis=
tration, and<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chains (SFCs)=
 in a network is<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0presented in this document.=C2=A0 Based on these re=
quirements, an<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0encapsulation of active OAM messages in SFC and a m=
echanism to detect<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and localize defects are described.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This document updates RFC 8300.=C2=A0 Particularly,=
 it updates the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0definition of O (OAM) bit in the Network Service He=
ader (NSH) (RFC<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A08300) and defines how an active OAM message is iden=
tified in the NSH.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer=
-oam/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/</a> <br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-l=
ayer-oam/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam/</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; There is also an HTML version available at:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-=
oam-16.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/arch=
ive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.html</a> <br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-la=
yer-oam-16.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/=
archive/id/draft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16.html</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; A diff from the previous version is available at:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-la=
yer-oam-16" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdi=
ff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16</a> <br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-mult=
i-layer-oam-16" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/r=
fcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam-16</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a> &lt;<a href=3D"ftp:/=
/ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ftp://=
ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; sfc mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a> &lt=
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gt;<br>
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