From Sandy.Murphy@sparta.com Mon Mar 2 03:17:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20EF83A6858 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 03:17:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AoYw6RT5jdy1 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 03:17:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from M4.sparta.com (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DC943A6A5D for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 03:17:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id n22BHnjD007764; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 05:17:49 -0600 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n22BHm8F031544; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 05:17:48 -0600 Received: from SANDYM-LT.columbia.ads.sparta.com ([192.168.1.102]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 2 Mar 2009 06:17:21 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 06:17:21 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: Sandra Murphy To: Danny McPherson In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20090227040001.8E86F3A68AB@core3.amsl.com> X-X-Sender: sandy@nemo.columbia.sparta.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Mar 2009 11:17:21.0566 (UTC) FILETIME=[74B313E0:01C99B28] Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2009 11:17:28 -0000 You are right that there was no discussion about this. I decided that the discussion about trust anchors demonstrated that we still had issues to work out in that area, and so moving that discussion to a different document made sense. Since the working group had already accepted doing the work, the document devoted exclusively to that discussion was still an accepted working group work item. And so should be a working group document. --Sandy On Fri, 27 Feb 2009, Danny McPherson wrote: > > Can someone please point me to the discussion that led > to this being posted as a WG document, I can't seem to > find it? > > Thanks! > > -danny > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >> Date: February 26, 2009 9:00:01 PM MST >> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> Cc: sidr@ietf.org >> Subject: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> This draft is a work item of the Secure Inter-Domain Routing Working Group >> of the IETF. >> >> >> Title : A Profile for Trust Anchor Material for the >> Resource Certificate PKI >> Author(s) : G. Michaelson, et al. >> Filename : draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt >> Pages : 17 >> Date : 2009-02-26 >> >> This document defines a standard profile for the publication of Trust >> Anchor material for the Resource Certificate Public Key >> Infrastructure. >> >> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> Internet-Draft. From terry.mndrsn@gmail.com Mon Mar 2 21:23:13 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE74F3A6A01 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:23:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.379 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.379 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.220, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25DEKfyod+dl for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.237]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 777053A6808 for ; Mon, 2 Mar 2009 21:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id l9so2390130rvb.49 for ; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:23:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=pv9kFXWnNo2Gxz33Xdcxk3nCjP0xa/tT9BvEcIdUjYk=; b=gNQdbIqF6BiLPq6OJG6s9oB0WtQQvAIOAXpdNE2Ag0cEP2snIQ6SGXcrI4fjcSCN/G vcaDtQzky4LFL9md2oGLxZ+nznxzpd8MixnhPXzyNxY+YFVgq0nz8lfi4xwdlAYygi7V rfqlAJA9zGDzlL9jBRj5UP1raaF4/e2NGahP4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=QJFcwZWDalqyZVx0vf1ZP7pl3wpwuORD4hGXF6rRjbFH6JYiqGawBlYXdhfPD7V2mM ukTMqnW12HnWyFvfuxOv3pMeS7WIqFMZD3K9hsRGXY3dpcaBu0Wk2GI/tKk5Go90dziZ CNZYi9ToGHZydrS77c1TPUf6PA9T5d6LpqXCE= Received: by 10.141.15.19 with SMTP id s19mr3295700rvi.259.1236057819100; Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:23:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.1.102? (c58-108-241-187.fitzg1.qld.optusnet.com.au [58.108.241.187]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l31sm1683526rvb.5.2009.03.02.21.23.37 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:23:38 -0800 (PST) Sender: Terry Manderson Message-Id: <47F247DF-2A73-4B6D-9261-A5C688D86855@terrym.net> From: Terry Manderson To: sidr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20090227040001.8E86F3A68AB@core3.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 15:23:34 +1000 References: <20090227040001.8E86F3A68AB@core3.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:23:13 -0000 After a read through of the draft, I have some points to raise. Section 1, Last paragraph "locally manage trust anchors in a fashion that preserves the resource subset constraints imposed by the use the RFC 3779 extensions." I think you mean "locally manage trust anchors in a fashion that preserves the resource subset constraints imposed by the use of RFC 3779 extensions. Further from section 1. Is the structure really designed to enable RPs to self manage TAs? Section 2: Para 1 "This does not nominate any organizations as default trust anchors for the RPKI." Perhaps "This document does not nominate any organizations as default Relying Party (RP) trust anchors for the RPKI." Section 2: Para 2 "cannot be modified (undetectably) by other than the" i think you mean "cannot be modified (un-detectably) by anyone other than the" Section 2 para 9 Do you mean for the sentence "The format used to represent the ETA is based on ongoing IETF PKIX WG activities to define a format for trust anchor material." to be there? Or should it be in para 8? It just seems disjointed to me. And with that, do you have a draft reference to guide the implementer? at the end of section 2 a diagram would be very helpful: eg ETA ---> CRL \----> EE ----> CMS [ payload: RTA (with 3779), signed attr ETA- EE ] Section 3, para 1 "This suggests that the structure of certificates in the RPKI that relate to the use of public number resources is a public context" maybe "This suggests that the structure of certificates in the RPKI that relate to the use of public number resources in a public context" Section 3 para 2 Would the authors consider saying that RTAs from two putative public TA organisations must not overlap? Just so we really do try to avoid the state of two organisations claiming to be authoritative for the same information? Section 3 para 5+ I have some questions about the recommended operational maintenance procedure. Early in the document it is suggested that the ETA be an offline CA yeah? Its fine to publish a CRL for the offline ca, however section 3 suggests that the ETA issue a CRL shorter than the validity period for the RTA. This pseudo synchronisation implies the ETA will need to regularly brought back online for CRL issuance which tends to negate the concept of a long lived crl from an off-line CA. Or have I incorrectly interpreted what you are saying? I think the same goes for where a trust anchor re-issues the RTA. The frequency of this implies that both the RTA and ETA will be on-line CAs. or perhaps you can help me understand why a new ETA-EE certificate needs to be created to sign the CMS for the new RTA? I see that you are tying to signify to relying parties that the RTA has changed and they need to fetch the RTA CMS blog, but wouldn't a manifest be of more utility and provide for less cert churn? I agree also with the authors note, a diagram of the SIA, locations, and crl locations would be helpful. Further, can you separate the 'private number' items into their own headings in the documents? Cheers Terry On 27/02/2009, at 2:00 PM, Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Secure Inter-Domain Routing Working > Group of the IETF. > > > Title : A Profile for Trust Anchor Material for the > Resource Certificate PKI > Author(s) : G. Michaelson, et al. > Filename : draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt > Pages : 17 > Date : 2009-02-26 > > This document defines a standard profile for the publication of Trust > Anchor material for the Resource Certificate Public Key > Infrastructure. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > _______________________________________________ > sidr mailing list > sidr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr From Sandy.Murphy@sparta.com Thu Mar 5 11:14:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2319628C4ED for ; Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:14:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7S8DdhVO5jAz for ; Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:14:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from M4.sparta.com (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1294328C40A for ; Thu, 5 Mar 2009 11:14:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id n25JF1Wn005943 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 2009 13:15:02 -0600 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n25JF0Ct021461 for ; Thu, 5 Mar 2009 13:15:01 -0600 Received: from SANDYM-LT.columbia.ads.sparta.com ([157.185.81.151]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:14:35 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:14:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: Sandra Murphy To: sidr@ietf.org Message-ID: X-X-Sender: sandy@nemo.columbia.sparta.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2009 19:14:36.0104 (UTC) FILETIME=[9F741480:01C99DC6] Subject: [sidr] meeting agenda topics X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 19:14:34 -0000 We are a bit more than two weeks to the meeting. We need to set the agenda. Anyone having topics to present, could you please send a message to the list or to the wg chairs? Sooner rather than later would be good. --Sandy From root@core3.amsl.com Fri Mar 6 19:30:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@ietf.org Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 7983E3A68B8; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:30:01 -0800 (PST) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20090307033001.7983E3A68B8@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:30:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-cp-05.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 03:30:01 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Secure Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : Certificate Policy (CP) for the Resource PKI (RPKI) Author(s) : S. Kent, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-sidr-cp-05.txt Pages : 1 Date : 2009-03-06 This document describes the certificate policy for a PKI used to support applications that make use of attestations about Internet resource holdings. The principle application that motivated creation of this PKI is routing security, but other applications that rely on such attestations also may make use of this PKI, e.g., resource transfer. Each organization that allocates IP addresses or Autonomous System (AS) numbers to an organization will, in parallel, issue a certificate reflecting this allocation. These certificates will enable verification that the holder of the associated private key has been allocated the resources indicated in the certificate, and is the current, unique holder of these resources. The PKI in which the certificates issued under this policy are employed, in conjunction with ancillary digitally signed data structures, will provide critical inputs for routing security mechanisms. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sidr-cp-05.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-sidr-cp-05.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-03-06192817.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From roque@lacnic.net Mon Mar 9 09:36:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF53C3A69BD for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:36:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 71+uZUxgXCbZ for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C92E3A6916 for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5000:216:cbff:fe98:665f] (unknown [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:5000:216:cbff:fe98:665f]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96E2430841C for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2009 13:37:06 -0300 (UYT) Message-Id: From: Roque Gagliano To: sidr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-48-611388481" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 13:37:06 -0300 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d55 (v55, Leopard) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: roque@lacnic.net Subject: [sidr] Message Digest calculation and signed objects X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:36:47 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-48-611388481 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-47-611388414 --Apple-Mail-47-611388414 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear All, just some editorial comments for the signed objects specs. a) In all the Signed Objects specification the same text is included when mentioning the MD SignedAttr and how to calculate the MD. The text is: The attrValues for the MessageDigest attribute contains the output of the digest algorithm applied to the content being signed, as specified in Section 11.1 of[RFC3852]. However, section 11.1 only defines the Content Type attribute, I believe the reference should be changed to section "5.4 Message Digest Calculation Process". b) also in the Signed Objects specs., when mentioning the binary- signing-time attribute, the RFC 4049 should be referenced, as this attribute is not defined in RFC 3852. Regards, Roque --Apple-Mail-47-611388414 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear = All,

just some editorial comments = for the signed objects specs. 

a) In all the Signed Objects = specification the same text is included when mentioning the MD = SignedAttr and how to calculate the MD. The text = is:
   The =
attrValues for the MessageDigest attribute contains the output of
   the digest algorithm applied to the content being signed, as
   specified in Section 11.1 of[RFC3852].
However, section 11.1 only =
defines the Content Type attribute, I believe the reference should be =
changed to section "5.4 Message Digest Calculation =
Process".
b) =
also in the Signed Objects specs., when mentioning the =
binary-signing-time attribute, the RFC 4049 should be referenced, as =
this attribute is not defined in RFC 3852.
Regards,
Roque
= = --Apple-Mail-47-611388414-- --Apple-Mail-48-611388481 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkm1RbIACgkQnk+WSgHpbO6kvgCguVly4zKbmHuaY8XeHBjwzJVz VMAAn3qIVwbT4uZ8qXyxId+tyNUok2jH =OFxT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-48-611388481-- From root@core3.amsl.com Mon Mar 9 16:00:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@ietf.org Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id CD8053A6988; Mon, 9 Mar 2009 16:00:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20090309230001.CD8053A6988@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 16:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-05.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:00:01 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Secure Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : An Infrastructure to Support Secure Internet Routing Author(s) : M. Lepinski, S. Kent Filename : draft-ietf-sidr-arch-05.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2009-03-09 This document describes an architecture for an infrastructure to support improved security of Internet routing. The foundation of this architecture is a public key infrastructure (PKI) that represents the allocation hierarchy of IP address space and Autonomous System Numbers; and a distributed repository system for storing and disseminating the data objects that comprise the PKI, as well as other signed objects necessary for improved routing security. As an initial application of this architecture, the document describes how a legitimate holder of IP address space can explicitly and verifiably authorize one or more ASes to originate routes to that address space. Such verifiable authorizations could be used, for example, to more securely construct BGP route filters. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sidr-arch-05.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-sidr-arch-05.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-03-09154846.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From root@core3.amsl.com Mon Mar 9 16:30:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@ietf.org Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 9923C28C225; Mon, 9 Mar 2009 16:30:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 16:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:30:01 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Secure Inter-Domain Routing Working Group of the IETF. Title : An Infrastructure to Support Secure Internet Routing Author(s) : M. Lepinski, S. Kent Filename : draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2009-03-09 This document describes an architecture for an infrastructure to support improved security of Internet routing. The foundation of this architecture is a public key infrastructure (PKI) that represents the allocation hierarchy of IP address space and Autonomous System Numbers; and a distributed repository system for storing and disseminating the data objects that comprise the PKI, as well as other signed objects necessary for improved routing security. As an initial application of this architecture, the document describes how a legitimate holder of IP address space can explicitly and verifiably authorize one or more ASes to originate routes to that address space. Such verifiable authorizations could be used, for example, to more securely construct BGP route filters. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-03-09161914.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From Sandy.Murphy@sparta.com Tue Mar 10 08:03:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11BC53A69A7 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:03:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2-IckJ1-toyL for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from M4.sparta.com (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1D263A65A5 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id n2AF4MP0030685 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:04:22 -0500 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n2AF4Mun004063 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:04:22 -0500 Received: from SANDYM-LT.columbia.ads.sparta.com ([157.185.81.151]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:04:21 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:04:21 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: Sandra Murphy To: sidr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: X-X-Sender: sandy@nemo.columbia.sparta.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2009 15:04:21.0744 (UTC) FILETIME=[7E434F00:01C9A191] Subject: Re: [sidr] meeting agenda topics X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:03:56 -0000 I realize that I sent this message out a bit later than usual. However, the deadline for the draft agenda is tomorrow, Wed, Mar 11. If you have topics to present, please let me know. This is the draft agenda deadline, so there's a chance to revise later. It is still a good thing to let people know what we'll be discussing so reading the drafts can start soon (i.e., before the planes depart for SF). --Sandy On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Sandra Murphy wrote: > We are a bit more than two weeks to the meeting. We need to set the agenda. > > Anyone having topics to present, could you please send a message to the list > or to the wg chairs? > > Sooner rather than later would be good. > > --Sandy > > From Sandy.Murphy@sparta.com Tue Mar 10 08:05:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58E6A3A67ED for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:05:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WMP7fnaTtwDK for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from M4.sparta.com (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E8E83A69A7 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id n2AF5tJI030713 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:05:55 -0500 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n2AF5tKR004175 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:05:55 -0500 Received: from SANDYM-LT.columbia.ads.sparta.com ([157.185.81.151]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:05:55 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:05:55 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: Sandra Murphy To: sidr@ietf.org Message-ID: X-X-Sender: sandy@nemo.columbia.sparta.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2009 15:05:55.0669 (UTC) FILETIME=[B63F2050:01C9A191] Subject: [sidr] remaining important dates for IETF 74 X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:05:25 -0000 Here are the remaining deadlines before the IETF meeting. March 11, 2009 Wednesday - Draft Working Group agendas due by 17:00 PDT (24:00 UTC/GMT) March 13, 2009 Friday - Early-Bird registration and payment cut-off at 17:00 PDT (24:00 UTC/GMT). March 16, 2009 Monday - Revised Working Group agendas due by 17:00 PDT (24:00 UTC/GMT) March 16, 2009 Monday - Registration cancellation cut-off at 17:00 PDT (24:00 UTC/GMT). March 20, 2009 Friday - Final Pre-Registration and Pre-Payment cut-off at 17:00 PDT (24:00 UTC/GMT). --Sandy From terry.mndrsn@gmail.com Tue Mar 10 23:53:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D6E23A6A34 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:53:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.423 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.423 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.176, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K19qNRDlNHt3 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ti-out-0910.google.com (ti-out-0910.google.com [209.85.142.186]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AA5B3A6A1F for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ti-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 11so1686724tim.25 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:54:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=dhgo+ThhWpw830AwaV6+Z43MT9D1OPIKHW+YPXLAUbw=; b=g7uR68N1vVloHw+ZmcRl/LI20lFFMAS4oeuvFWQ2tcM8QdmUVAzhhDsw2g6wJvkWC8 NfVRByk0BrxExBQkqrRHUUg9K1eAQY4Oan69LcDZ/jAzgAm/q5bPV6LZQ0Abs3p8hZVY t+0xdw5y7du0ElDOxkK2joWi1i5PyWEaF5Obo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=qOZqF3PVUYxkj+fXWc00zdsTfA2u4d/Uk9oMZyiCqJvQVnfcuXAi3NmoV4XHoTHtH2 hvfiLXAKhJnzSOtj9/o7KKvnzKz26DBE8D19gZtR/1MgSTQjKHHYCwwle5m6ik9TRpbV Ow+H1h5qMkUOYegpHB8pw0mdEGME4Fveuaq2c= Received: by 10.110.14.12 with SMTP id 12mr12242643tin.22.1236754467935; Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.102? (c58-108-241-187.fitzg1.qld.optusnet.com.au [58.108.241.187]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 22sm3895725tim.24.2009.03.10.23.54.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Terry Manderson Message-Id: From: Terry Manderson To: sidr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:54:22 +1000 References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 06:53:55 -0000 Stephen and Matt, I raise the following after reading sidr-arch-06 in light of the recent rescerts and ta draft versions. Section 2.5 ERX. With the recent change in suggested TA behaviours (the ETA and RTA) I'm not sure I see any reason to have the multiple CAs as represented. The RTA allows the *IR to grow or shrink the resource holdings in the RTA without having to adjust the RP TA (ETA). Wouldn't it be far simpler to make the transfers (ERX and others to come) an administrative function and co-ordination between the TA organisations at that level where resources are listed in the 3779 attributes following the paradigm that no two TA organisations can be authoritative for the same information? (in that model) Also thinking to the future of more transfer arrangements, following recent RIR policy processes. (while not specifically an IETF issue, has flow on effect) Additionally, the structure proposed implies to me that the ERX block would go back to the originated RIR if relinquished (handed back) by the holder. I'm not clear that this is the case. Last time I traversed the policy on this I thought the resource remained with the _current_ RIR for reallocation. (but could be wrong - I couldn't find anything in the ERX faqs @ the RIR websites to confirm/deny) If you do maintain this structure, the description for the diagram (figure 1) says "EXR" not "ERX". Cheers Terry From robert@ripe.net Wed Mar 11 01:17:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CDE13A67E5 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 01:17:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FelAueTJHHSc for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 01:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postgirl.ripe.net (postgirl.ripe.net [193.0.19.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33A673A67A1 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 01:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from herring.ripe.net ([193.0.1.203]) by postgirl.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LhJdG-00075j-EM; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:17:42 +0100 Received: from Kistel-Mac.local (chimp.ripe.net [193.0.1.199]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 677732F583; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:17:42 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <49B773A5.6000604@ripe.net> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 09:17:41 +0100 From: Robert Kisteleki Organization: RIPE NCC User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Macintosh/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Manderson References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 72e00e6d7601fa19264e98abc238a2747e09a051f8038cec030861a3f8ae8904 X-RIPE-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "ibis.ripe.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Terry Manderson wrote: [...] > Additionally, the structure proposed implies to me that the ERX block > would go back to the originated RIR if relinquished (handed back) by the > holder. I'm not clear that this is the case. Last time I traversed the > policy on this I thought the resource remained with the _current_ RIR > for reallocation. (but could be wrong - I couldn't find anything in the > ERX faqs @ the RIR websites to confirm/deny) [...] Content analysis details: (-4.2 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.8 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.2 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 08:17:18 -0000 Terry Manderson wrote: [...] > Additionally, the structure proposed implies to me that the ERX block > would go back to the originated RIR if relinquished (handed back) by the > holder. I'm not clear that this is the case. Last time I traversed the > policy on this I thought the resource remained with the _current_ RIR > for reallocation. (but could be wrong - I couldn't find anything in the > ERX faqs @ the RIR websites to confirm/deny) AFAIK there is no policy for this yet. There may be one soon. Robert From randy@psg.com Wed Mar 11 03:45:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D31A73A6B51 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 03:45:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0wdO-VJqrkAX for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 03:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A3EE3A6B59 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 03:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=rmac.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1LhLwt-0005Vz-Q2; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:46:07 +0000 Received: from rmac.psg.com.psg.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rmac.psg.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D74AE6E227; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 03:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 03:46:06 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Robert Kisteleki In-Reply-To: <49B773A5.6000604@ripe.net> References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B773A5.6000604@ripe.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.5 (Almost Unreal) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.3 (i386-apple-darwin9.6.0) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:45:34 -0000 >> Additionally, the structure proposed implies to me that the ERX block >> would go back to the originated RIR if relinquished (handed back) by the >> holder. I'm not clear that this is the case. Last time I traversed the >> policy on this I thought the resource remained with the _current_ RIR >> for reallocation. (but could be wrong - I couldn't find anything in the >> ERX faqs @ the RIR websites to confirm/deny) > AFAIK there is no policy for this yet. There may be one soon. why should ephemeral political policy be enshrined in the TA structure? randy From terry.mndrsn@gmail.com Wed Mar 11 18:01:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1271B3A6ACE for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:01:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.452 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.452 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.147, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w6IC0FrmWmhb for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.237]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 441B43A69F7 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id l9so250659rvb.49 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:01:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=XLAOXtRh5dtdzoZWct8326gbAkxxG/kj/8PRZXx65lU=; b=ZLDJcOVs5Ow27wJDiyWYc+nixsGS5pu2NexrSSUkBNpEDtPsJKFcY/f0Y68Hc7v4Xn k2vB7mo5UtpcBrTOuyqdzrgjtbvIphyiDRccOFrSS0eFDHJR6zjug1RNPxKOaYdTN9ss 7IuxEdDzVMy8istRW4nTvdNoDpNjeYYfnscLQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=tUSZaCzdlhLsp0P1IPwWYnqXPPj48nzbqVIK5GvACliSycIKusfYZS7i5nVHh7F/sY bhTUnVSYHeIMtDavNpKcEem78EcrzRQcZqk3zFoGiJZ69UHBEOP+QwXxP9KGif8tpCQY veQfHCEOaCPMo2hBbUBao98SEdoCwZEKsXVg8= Received: by 10.140.173.17 with SMTP id v17mr4676003rve.277.1236819696981; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.102? (c58-108-241-187.fitzg1.qld.optusnet.com.au [58.108.241.187]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k2sm250390rvb.4.2009.03.11.18.01.35 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Terry Manderson Message-Id: <71F3BEA4-77DF-4E05-9CE3-6851DB4EA5A0@terrym.net> From: Terry Manderson To: Robert Kisteleki In-Reply-To: <49B773A5.6000604@ripe.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:01:31 +1000 References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B773A5.6000604@ripe.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:01:01 -0000 Hi Robert, On 11/03/2009, at 6:17 PM, Robert Kisteleki wrote: > Terry Manderson wrote: > [...] >> Additionally, the structure proposed implies to me that the ERX >> block would go back to the originated RIR if relinquished (handed >> back) by the holder. I'm not clear that this is the case. Last time >> I traversed the policy on this I thought the resource remained with >> the _current_ RIR for reallocation. (but could be wrong - I >> couldn't find anything in the ERX faqs @ the RIR websites to >> confirm/deny) > > AFAIK there is no policy for this yet. There may be one soon. In which case I would be inclined to treat ERX no differently to other resources. Allowing the RTA to grow and shrink as necessary for ERX or other transfers which makes for less complexity and confusion in the structure - and that I think should pursued. It would then allow all permutations of policy to work without incorrectly asserting what the politics should be. eg RIR 1 retains allocation RIR 1 returns allocation to RIR 2 RIR 2 hands allocation back to the IANA .. and several others. Terry From robertl@apnic.net Wed Mar 11 18:26:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36C7728C180 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:26:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.175 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.175 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, RELAY_IS_203=0.994] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8qJ-D7BBV2W2 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp.apnic.net (oregano.apnic.net [IPv6:2001:dc0:2001:a:4608::60]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20EBC28C169 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:26:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [203.119.42.169] (dynamic169.apnic.net [203.119.42.169]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by asmtp.apnic.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 889C8110066; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:27:26 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:27:26 +1000 From: Robert Loomans Organization: APNIC - http://www.apnic.net/ User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.8.1.18) Gecko/20081105 Lightning/0.9 Thunderbird/2.0.0.18 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Terry Manderson References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7 OpenPGP: id=C6B3AE7E; url=http://robert.loomans.org/0xC6B3AE7E.asc Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwCAMAAABg3Am1AAAAGFBMVEUbGxs1NTVVVVVycnKO jo6tra3MzMzg4OAC8PijAAACVElEQVR42pWVW3bjMAxDKT6U/e94AJBWXLcfHrRJpBhXoKjj2D7Q hqoyI8Jv4vTxTW6b4ZLOcD6do3XzA1g9qEKK0orGmeSuWGIHKCZE1KZkwgtA4oOzwjsMB4DRehID ULFgqc+ls49gwOami0xcwI41ipkfFRzWTWKlqZCi1ZpwRVRGQtHXG6gqRyHtN1tH1X0gMF0x+pPV 5fKs+/pSfh4yrh8AmvD11C9gM8CjQERgv+ds5/TiCWTSwYjKjc7kD8ViCT8AnzOBdppreyOOnSVc iLrkI/j3+g2E9fTItHjbEmVrcAfWmlFRTOhhJgImIUv/Uph57VmAS1+JWTt82brC8gCIHQub0yWl gAXAG5AGABGcBp0NdIs2zxjwXZGBVBIYUwL8DuhUhPEuOGePAAhllAUdAtzSMl0OgMANQAiIPXdZ GV6KKwCxMATBzaVTTOwISQCkDe6wORG91zVJARioOQK6Zzw3ekaV0gHKg0oCImKXr/wFxAMIAgrw rDAYngm9a/sCBbF3jojlDaj8KS8agGmA7jcAr8K1cXWHJmCAbIBT+Um4tekoES6dCgV4KxFBj86S IQcwdbkB/2pVyUQ7pOGpaLpaBI6i6IrZhLJcwCz1TFBEDDHt8gkIXTjAUYV6OgoBE6DsEKDnxgCW Kr7tNE0AgXtbPRrAxRi1p3TDzcEc4MjMco9ZjgTg8h/gKf465/d54GZXESr7DyD4a5vZ/m0vVE3I X/ZGG5oHiL3T/uCPcntPLBX0Hgh2y18DVf3AfQ/sD/U+IUoPKvsPLV/2p/4BtMMZxXNLW/wAAAAA SUVORK5CYII= Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms060805090704000006050105" Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:26:54 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms060805090704000006050105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ... where resources are listed in the 3779 attributes following the > paradigm that no two TA organisations can be authoritative for the > same information? (in that model) I'm not sure that's a valid assumption. I believe that this would preclude make-before-break transfers. Rob -- Robert Loomans email: robertl@apnic.net Senior Software Engineer, APNIC sip: robertl@voip.apnic.net http://www.apnic.net/ phone: +61 7 3858 3100 --------------ms060805090704000006050105 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIK6DCC BXAwggRYoAMCAQICAithMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMIGOMQswCQYDVQQGEwJBVTEOMAwGA1UE ChMFQVBOSUMxGzAZBgNVBAsTElRlY2huaWNhbCBTZXJ2aWNlczEuMCwGA1UEAxMlQVBOSUMg Q2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBBdXRob3JpdHkgTWFuYWdlcjEiMCAGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYTY2FtYW5h Z2VyQGFwbmljLm5ldDAeFw0wODA5MjYwNzQ1MDlaFw0wOTA5MjYwNzQ1MDlaMEkxCzAJBgNV BAYTAkFQMREwDwYDVQQKEwhBUE5JQy1BUDEXMBUGA1UEAxMOUm9iZXJ0IExvb21hbnMxDjAM BgNVBAUTBTExMTA1MIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA3z92063wWTuk PtRv0ZrOumNcHII4mWyKdZqOY2M8TjgTtwuSLfyXz1kJgM4EzeL4Di9VCPHxiIeOpOh5lBLz 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(c58-108-241-187.fitzg1.qld.optusnet.com.au [58.108.241.187]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k2sm364273rvb.4.2009.03.11.18.49.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Terry Manderson Message-Id: <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> From: Terry Manderson To: Robert Loomans In-Reply-To: <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:49:53 +1000 References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:49:22 -0000 On 12/03/2009, at 11:27 AM, Robert Loomans wrote: >> ... where resources are listed in the 3779 attributes following the >> paradigm that no two TA organisations can be authoritative for the >> same information? (in that model) > > I'm not sure that's a valid assumption. I believe that this would > preclude make-before-break transfers. I don't remember seeing the a make-before-break issue raised in any draft, can you point me to a reference? In mooted transfers of resources from one company on one side of the world and under RIR 1 to a company on the other side of the world under RIR 2 I really don't see that a make before break argument applies. And really - we are talking about cert re-issuance times of 24 hours or less. I'd wager that business process would take longer than the cert dance. Terry From sra@hactrn.net Wed Mar 11 21:26:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285D83A691A for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:26:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jaxgPP59wuxh for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cyteen.hactrn.net (cyteen.hactrn.net [IPv6:2002:425c:4242:0:210:5aff:fe86:1f54]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39A3E3A6A41 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thrintun.hactrn.net (thrintun.hactrn.net [IPv6:2002:425c:4242:0:219:d1ff:fe12:5d30]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "thrintun.hactrn.net", Issuer "Grunchweather Associates" (verified OK)) by cyteen.hactrn.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7794F28429 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 04:27:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from thrintun.hactrn.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by thrintun.hactrn.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72B322829 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:27:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:27:28 -0400 From: Rob Austein To: sidr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.14.0 (Africa) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 04:26:54 -0000 At Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:49:53 +1000, Terry Manderson wrote: > > I don't remember seeing the a make-before-break issue raised in any > draft, can you point me to a reference? May not have gotten into any draft, but keeping routing live has certainly been an assumed requirement for some of us. :) > In mooted transfers of resources from one company on one side of the > world and under RIR 1 to a company on the other side of the world > under RIR 2 I really don't see that a make before break argument > applies. And really - we are talking about cert re-issuance times of > 24 hours or less. I'd wager that business process would take longer > than the cert dance. Think about corporate acquisitions for a moment. EngulfAndDevour, headquartered in region A, buys MomAndPopISP, in region B. MomAndPopISP is a going concern whose founders want to retire, grow tomatoes, and deal with no unit of time shorter than a season. EngulfAndDevour has paid heavily for good will of MomAndPopISP's customer base and wants MomAndPopISP's routing to continue to work during transfer of MomAndPopISP's resources from region B to region A. Any downtime at all is unacceptable. Hence make-before-break. From terry.mndrsn@gmail.com Wed Mar 11 22:22:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7ED43A67E9 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:22:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.489 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.489 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 87OsNqwNvhHM for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ti-out-0910.google.com (ti-out-0910.google.com [209.85.142.188]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6F613A67F7 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ti-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 11so169533tim.25 for ; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:23:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=hrDofu3sjN8v2e2TMVClF5SgKzCpAsoge/HzGUAwYRg=; b=eNcIthrWFwb3mgXVq4Dm7jN6EBW9xktfGSNF3hFz71l8VOSC85v6RV9ZgNpa5thx0c VR6I4ZsFLKJHmPA88mc3+LCVf/HT43B/WEqIbMdYcnev1OZ+Hjr2qbF5TXqGiW3GG8KO yBLw6UCoQkuEOg40Jftv94t7xNBoR1SLB5Eas= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=s4uT4Aqx+E8s4Riy13mPqW/qv7ZG/rajtxrFNY4gDj/5ZirYwUs/x8v2UMw3y35Olw n+EygK3feCjX6Sx/fOK0NhYELhssnApMLX6Ba0AOEuXFO9XeVvabPsysIYSc1lwf7tI1 hTdUina/2FPHBsQCVlC23IQnSOUrlQjy/l43M= Received: by 10.110.10.16 with SMTP id 16mr14288415tij.27.1236835414973; Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.102? (c58-108-241-187.fitzg1.qld.optusnet.com.au [58.108.241.187]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id a4sm926333tib.31.2009.03.11.22.23.32 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Terry Manderson Message-Id: <0B16F95A-D8CD-4336-A86C-EAACB5638B7C@terrym.net> From: Terry Manderson To: Rob Austein In-Reply-To: <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:23:29 +1000 References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 05:22:59 -0000 On 12/03/2009, at 2:27 PM, Rob Austein wrote: > At Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:49:53 +1000, Terry Manderson wrote: >> >> I don't remember seeing the a make-before-break issue raised in any >> draft, can you point me to a reference? > > May not have gotten into any draft, but keeping routing live has > certainly been an assumed requirement for some of us. :) Not saying it isn't - just observing that I don't recall reading that clearly fundamental requirement :) >> > Think about corporate acquisitions for a moment. EngulfAndDevour, > headquartered in region A, buys MomAndPopISP, in region B. > MomAndPopISP is a going concern whose founders want to retire, grow > tomatoes, and deal with no unit of time shorter than a season. > EngulfAndDevour has paid heavily for good will of MomAndPopISP's > customer base and wants MomAndPopISP's routing to continue to work > during transfer of MomAndPopISP's resources from region B to region A. > Any downtime at all is unacceptable. Hence make-before-break. As a corporate acquisition, wouldn't EngulfAndDevour using its acquired relationships ask for some strong co-ordination between region A's RIR and region B's RIR? Perhaps requesting that their certificate shift and re-issuance (and ROA move) happen in a near simultaneous fashion at UTC 0100hrs? I would have hoped to count on such organisations to be well coordinated. But wasn't this structure for ERX? Not for general corporate take-overs? Further - and this is probably just me, but if the co-ordination function cannot be counted on - I don't think I would be moving resources from one region to another, when network downtime is unacceptable. (maybe that is too sensible ;) As stated, I would much prefer that the structure be as simple as possible, and the co-ordination function be improved through some inter-RIR brokerage/exhange/transfer protocol. I wonder (just thinking aloud) if there would be dire consequences of a 24hr overlap in information. Clearly a question about RP decision time if the ROAs differ.. but other than that? (maybe a @beers discussion) Terry From heather.schiller@verizonbusiness.com Thu Mar 12 07:43:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E4453A697E for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:43:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 89ihlQ1gwQJH for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ashesmtp03.verizonbusiness.com (ashesmtp03.verizonbusiness.com [198.4.8.167]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C9B73A6868 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omzismtp03.vzbi.com ([165.122.46.170]) by firewall.verizonbusiness.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KGE00G7AE9QB800@firewall.verizonbusiness.com> for sidr@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:44:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from omzismtp03.vzbi.com ([127.0.0.1]) by omzismtp03.vzbi.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KGE00LI0E9QXR00@omzismtp03.vzbi.com> for sidr@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:44:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([131.146.29.131]) by omzismtp03.vzbi.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KGE00LF4E9NSF00@omzismtp03.vzbi.com> for sidr@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:44:14 +0000 (GMT) Message-id: <49B91FBB.8070401@verizonbusiness.com> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:44:11 -0400 From: Heather Schiller User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-version: 1.0 To: Rob Austein References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> In-reply-to: <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:43:44 -0000 Rob Austein wrote: > At Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:49:53 +1000, Terry Manderson wrote: >> I don't remember seeing the a make-before-break issue raised in any >> draft, can you point me to a reference? > > May not have gotten into any draft, but keeping routing live has > certainly been an assumed requirement for some of us. :) > >> In mooted transfers of resources from one company on one side of the >> world and under RIR 1 to a company on the other side of the world >> under RIR 2 I really don't see that a make before break argument >> applies. And really - we are talking about cert re-issuance times of >> 24 hours or less. I'd wager that business process would take longer >> than the cert dance. > > Think about corporate acquisitions for a moment. EngulfAndDevour, > headquartered in region A, buys MomAndPopISP, in region B. > MomAndPopISP is a going concern whose founders want to retire, grow > tomatoes, and deal with no unit of time shorter than a season. > EngulfAndDevour has paid heavily for good will of MomAndPopISP's > customer base and wants MomAndPopISP's routing to continue to work > during transfer of MomAndPopISP's resources from region B to region A. > Any downtime at all is unacceptable. Hence make-before-break. Why would this acquisition result in an inter-RIR transfer of the resource? Wouldn't EngulfAndDevour go to RIR in region B and say "Hi we acquired MomAndPopISP, please update the company name on the record" Isn't that how it is done today? > _______________________________________________ > sidr mailing list > sidr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr > From randy@psg.com Thu Mar 12 07:49:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E88D3A6BAE for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:49:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D2yRoiBhAZ6D for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:49:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C004C3A6B0A for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:49:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=rmac.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1LhmEk-000939-Hv; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:50:18 +0000 Received: from rmac.psg.com.psg.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rmac.psg.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4937DEC4727; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:50:17 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Heather Schiller In-Reply-To: <49B91FBB.8070401@verizonbusiness.com> References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <49B91FBB.8070401@verizonbusiness.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.5 (Almost Unreal) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.3 (i386-apple-darwin9.6.0) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Rob Austein , sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:49:45 -0000 > Why would this acquisition result in an inter-RIR transfer of the > resource? cert validation chain swing From heather.schiller@verizonbusiness.com Thu Mar 12 08:01:47 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43D8F28C0EF for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:01:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QZJhrrqjunAj for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ashesmtp02.verizonbusiness.com (ashesmtp02.verizonbusiness.com [198.4.8.166]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B973E28C0FC for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omzismtp03.vzbi.com ([165.122.46.170]) by firewall.verizonbusiness.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KGE00F26F3UIE00@firewall.verizonbusiness.com> for sidr@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:02:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from omzismtp03.vzbi.com ([127.0.0.1]) by omzismtp03.vzbi.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KGE00M7RF3UVM00@omzismtp03.vzbi.com> for sidr@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:02:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([131.146.29.131]) by omzismtp03.vzbi.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KGE00MFCF3SOA00@omzismtp03.vzbi.com> for sidr@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:02:18 +0000 (GMT) Message-id: <49B923F8.1090504@verizonbusiness.com> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:02:16 -0400 From: Heather Schiller User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-version: 1.0 To: Randy Bush References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <49B91FBB.8070401@verizonbusiness.com> In-reply-to: Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Rob Austein , sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:01:47 -0000 Randy Bush wrote: >> Why would this acquisition result in an inter-RIR transfer of the >> resource? > > cert validation chain swing > Sorry Randy, you were too terse or I'm too dense. I'm still not following. Rob said: "..during transfer of MomAndPopISP's resources from region B to region A." I don't understand *why* the resource would move from region B to region A in the given example? Maybe I misunderstood and the author didn't intend to imply that the resource would move between regions? I do understand that the cert and name on file in region B would have to be updated, and understand that they would want it done quickly and efficiently. I would be interested to know if resources are being transferred between RIR's today as part of corporate acquisition/divestitures. AFAIK, they are not. If that is the case, I don't understand why it would change (given current policies and practices) with the SIDR work, as the work here would not change the policy underwhich a resource could be moved. --heather From randy@psg.com Thu Mar 12 08:40:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A69FB3A6B8B for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:40:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jO9S-xnGeUO8 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:40:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFDE63A6B92 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=rmac.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Lhn29-0009Bh-By; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:41:21 +0000 Received: from rmac.psg.com.psg.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rmac.psg.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE9BEC8EC6; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:41:20 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Heather Schiller In-Reply-To: <49B923F8.1090504@verizonbusiness.com> References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <49B91FBB.8070401@verizonbusiness.com> <49B923F8.1090504@verizonbusiness.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.5 (Almost Unreal) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.3 (i386-apple-darwin9.6.0) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Rob Austein , sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:40:46 -0000 > I don't understand *why* the resource would move from region B to > region A in the given example? the buyer and seller prefer doing business in their 'home' regions. figuring out one rir's bureacrazy is hard enough, and does not contribute to the bottom line. randy From ksriram@nist.gov Thu Mar 12 09:44:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C81A83A68A7 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:44:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YzMygkBIfqL8 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.nist.gov (rimp1.nist.gov [129.6.16.226]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF1E33A6BE7 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (75-140.antd.nist.gov [129.6.140.75]) by smtp.nist.gov (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n2CGjBQZ015644; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:45:11 -0400 Message-ID: <49B93C17.40501@nist.gov> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:45:11 -0400 From: "K. Sriram" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Bush References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <49B91FBB.8070401@verizonbusiness.com> <49B923F8.1090504@verizonbusiness.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070404090308000203020006" X-NIST-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-NIST-MailScanner-From: ksriram@nist.gov Cc: Rob Austein , sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:44:45 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070404090308000203020006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am curious as to what happens if MomAndPopISP's address space has a ROA in region B created by a higher-tier ISP, say BigISP, in region B. Let us say BigISP is an ISP one level higher in the hierarchy above MomAndPopISP. As a result, it appears that EngulfAndDevour in Region A would also need cooperation of BigISP in Region B to first revoke the existing ROA before it can create a new ROA for MomAndPopISP in its own region (Region A)? What incentive will BigISP have to cooperate and help EngulfAndDevour without causing delays? Sriram > Think about corporate acquisitions for a moment. EngulfAndDevour, > headquartered in region A, buys MomAndPopISP, in region B. > MomAndPopISP is a going concern whose founders want to retire, grow > tomatoes, and deal with no unit of time shorter than a season. > EngulfAndDevour has paid heavily for good will of MomAndPopISP's > customer base and wants MomAndPopISP's routing to continue to work > during transfer of MomAndPopISP's resources from region B to region A. > Any downtime at all is unacceptable. Hence make-before-break. Randy Bush wrote: >> I don't understand *why* the resource would move from region B to >> region A in the given example? >> > > the buyer and seller prefer doing business in their 'home' regions. > figuring out one rir's bureacrazy is hard enough, and does not > contribute to the bottom line. > > randy > -- K. Sriram +1 301 975 3973 http://www.antd.nist.gov/~ksriram/ --------------070404090308000203020006 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am curious as to what happens if MomAndPopISP's address space has a ROA in region B
created by a higher-tier ISP, say BigISP, in region B.
Let us say BigISP is an ISP one level higher in the hierarchy above MomAndPopISP.
As a result, it appears that EngulfAndDevour in Region A would also need
cooperation of BigISP in Region B to first revoke the existing ROA before
it can create a new ROA for MomAndPopISP in its own region (Region A)?
What incentive will BigISP have to cooperate and help EngulfAndDevour
without causing delays?

Sriram  

> Think about corporate acquisitions for a moment. EngulfAndDevour,
> headquartered in region A, buys MomAndPopISP, in region B.
> MomAndPopISP is a going concern whose founders want to retire, grow
> tomatoes, and deal with no unit of time shorter than a season.
> EngulfAndDevour has paid heavily for good will of MomAndPopISP's
> customer base and wants MomAndPopISP's routing to continue to work
> during transfer of MomAndPopISP's resources from region B to region A.
> Any downtime at all is unacceptable. Hence make-before-break.

Randy Bush wrote: 
I don't understand *why* the resource would move from region B to 
region A in the given example?
    

the buyer and seller prefer doing business in their 'home' regions.
figuring out one rir's bureacrazy is hard enough, and does not
contribute to the bottom line.

randy
-- 
K. Sriram 
+1 301 975 3973
http://www.antd.nist.gov/~ksriram/
--------------070404090308000203020006-- From heather.schiller@verizonbusiness.com Thu Mar 12 10:03:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A6DF3A6916 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:03:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gjx4VhnPivvk for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ashesmtp02.verizonbusiness.com (ashesmtp02.verizonbusiness.com [198.4.8.166]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B90503A68A7 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omzismtp03.vzbi.com ([165.122.46.170]) by firewall.verizonbusiness.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KGE00K8BKQNJ800@firewall.verizonbusiness.com> for sidr@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:03:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from omzismtp03.vzbi.com ([127.0.0.1]) by omzismtp03.vzbi.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KGE0050SKQNCV00@omzismtp03.vzbi.com> for sidr@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:03:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([131.146.29.131]) by omzismtp03.vzbi.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KGE00529KQKCQ00@omzismtp03.vzbi.com> for sidr@ietf.org; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:03:59 +0000 (GMT) Message-id: <49B9407C.9020106@verizonbusiness.com> Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:03:56 -0400 From: Heather Schiller User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-version: 1.0 To: Randy Bush References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <49B91FBB.8070401@verizonbusiness.com> <49B923F8.1090504@verizonbusiness.com> In-reply-to: Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Cc: Rob Austein , sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:03:23 -0000 Randy Bush wrote: >> I don't understand *why* the resource would move from region B to >> region A in the given example? > > the buyer and seller prefer doing business in their 'home' regions. > figuring out one rir's bureacrazy is hard enough, and does not > contribute to the bottom line. > > randy > Taking off the SIDR hat for a moment.. I don't think there is currently policy/practice that allows this. If there is, I'd really appreciate someone quoting the policy - or providing examples of where this has happened (non-ERX, non-RIR startup examples) If transfers aren't currently permitted - there isn't a problem. If transfers are currently permitted, or might be in the future (see the "Allocation of IPv4 Blocks to Regional Internet Registries" proposal) Then I can understand the fuss. I'd just like to know if there is actually a problem to solve here. From randy@psg.com Thu Mar 12 10:07:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8BC73A67E4 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:07:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 436OoFEuiIdu for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2260B3A6916 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=rmac.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1LhoOR-0009Ot-JD; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:08:27 +0000 Received: from rmac.psg.com.psg.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rmac.psg.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 195F7ED1800; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:08:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:08:26 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Heather Schiller In-Reply-To: <49B9407C.9020106@verizonbusiness.com> References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <49B91FBB.8070401@verizonbusiness.com> <49B923F8.1090504@verizonbusiness.com> <49B9407C.9020106@verizonbusiness.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.5 (Almost Unreal) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.3 (i386-apple-darwin9.6.0) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Rob Austein , sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:07:56 -0000 >> the buyer and seller prefer doing business in their 'home' regions. >> figuring out one rir's bureacrazy is hard enough, and does not >> contribute to the bottom line. > Taking off the SIDR hat for a moment.. I don't think there is currently > policy/practice that allows this. as rir policies seem rather ephmeral, perhaps we should not limit technology to the current ones. randy From Sandy.Murphy@sparta.com Thu Mar 12 11:37:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3033A67E7 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:37:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uOzd89ts1xVE for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from M4.sparta.com (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CCA93A6881 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id n2CIbiLX006668; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:37:44 -0500 Received: from cronus.sandiego.ads.sparta.com ([157.185.24.3]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n2CIbgAZ005509; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:37:43 -0500 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com ([157.185.80.75]) by cronus.sandiego.ads.sparta.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:37:38 -0700 Received: from SANDYM-LT.columbia.ads.sparta.com ([157.185.81.107]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:37:24 -0400 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:37:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: Sandra Murphy To: Heather Schiller In-Reply-To: <49B9407C.9020106@verizonbusiness.com> Message-ID: References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <49B91FBB.8070401@verizonbusiness.com> <49B923F8.1090504@verizonbusiness.com> <49B9407C.9020106@verizonbusiness.com> X-X-Sender: sandy@nemo.columbia.sparta.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2009 18:37:24.0533 (UTC) FILETIME=[96399E50:01C9A341] Cc: Rob Austein , sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:37:11 -0000 On Thu, 12 Mar 2009, Heather Schiller wrote: > > > Randy Bush wrote: >>> I don't understand *why* the resource would move from region B to region A >>> in the given example? >> >> the buyer and seller prefer doing business in their 'home' regions. >> figuring out one rir's bureacrazy is hard enough, and does not >> contribute to the bottom line. >> >> randy >> > > Taking off the SIDR hat for a moment.. I don't think there is currently > policy/practice that allows this. If there is, I'd really appreciate someone > quoting the policy - or providing examples of where this has happened > (non-ERX, non-RIR startup examples) > > If transfers aren't currently permitted - there isn't a problem. If > transfers are currently permitted, or might be in the future (see the > "Allocation of IPv4 Blocks to Regional Internet Registries" proposal) Then I > can understand the fuss. I'd just like to know if there is actually a > problem to solve here. I don't know if this answers your question, but APNIC reached consensus on (and is in last call on) a transfer policy at the last meeting, which says in part: 4.6 Address transfers are permitted between APNIC account holders and other RIR account holders, following the policies of all the respective RIRs. I found this at: http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-050-v004.html And RIPE has a "transfer of allocations" section in their policy manual (http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-449.html#55) that is a bit more complicated. It is clear that only RIPE members can receive a transfer, so transfers to other RIRs are out. The section talks about both "re-allocation" and "transfer", but it looks like those are synonymous. The wording also makes it look like you can only transfer an allocation that was a direct allocation to you, i.e, if your address space is a sub-allocation from a different ISP, you can't transfer it to anyone else. Maybe that's to keep the book-keeping sane. And I might have mistaken your question entirely and be pointing to things that you are well aware of. --Sandy > > _______________________________________________ > sidr mailing list > sidr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr > From terry.mndrsn@gmail.com Thu Mar 12 16:11:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF4A93A6C1D for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:11:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.098, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VvZGlCQLmSoD for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ti-out-0910.google.com (ti-out-0910.google.com [209.85.142.187]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC7A3A696F for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ti-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 11so1199587tim.25 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:11:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=50atr4mwpjXjWlW5KMgHnFjV2qrtBGCSM2L/xvCHmF8=; b=VlUVI2CAdN6+gPaTboK4VRekqAUv7RrCzbIleaY/2IlG0210uODdUxPz96r3uSwoS7 XiUdatFDyWilSDkxdc1EjNpeeEHG+BdL0Q93a9nO2n+8voE5C9lce1HR1xlxD7Le9mea TYTBBYwbp65YmYvd8aD3jl3zKFwQaIFliWHSM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=XZgiAH0cf6SDQ1goRFqYjviGRKX6gJZNrDQOd484Tyx7xZ0+aNDnRsM7mueprms78s VhCIotuFRtkhUGQo1uJwHKTQ6onVnhnNKE2EcVQu9YUlEa/qlbglg4AiI6rlVQn+C0sG fw0W+TrzlGMbhtqrJduHraQNGPphhti4ABp7s= Received: by 10.110.95.11 with SMTP id s11mr897623tib.24.1236899513058; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.102? (c58-108-241-187.fitzg1.qld.optusnet.com.au [58.108.241.187]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d7sm2284380tib.2.2009.03.12.16.11.50 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Terry Manderson Message-Id: <32B58EF0-9F17-46E2-BB70-137A65380FE4@terrym.net> From: Terry Manderson To: sidr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <0B16F95A-D8CD-4336-A86C-EAACB5638B7C@terrym.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 09:11:48 +1000 References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <0B16F95A-D8CD-4336-A86C-EAACB5638B7C@terrym.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Cc: Rob Austein Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:11:17 -0000 On 12/03/2009, at 3:23 PM, Terry Manderson wrote: > > > As stated, I would much prefer that the structure be as simple as > possible, and the co-ordination function be improved through some > inter-RIR brokerage/exhange/transfer protocol. I wonder (just > thinking aloud) if there would be dire consequences of a 24hr > overlap in information. Clearly a question about RP decision time if > the ROAs differ.. but other than that? (maybe a @beers discussion) > Could the following option be valid to maintain structural simplicity, thinking that certificates have both a space function, and a time function? (and noting that this is not a ERX transfer) EngulfAndDevour acquires MomAndPopISP. EngulfAndDevour advises both RIRs of the purchase EngulfAndDevour advises that at 0100hrs UTC on a future date all resources (ROAs et al) are transferred to RIR 1. RIR 1 advises RIR 2 to reissue all of MomAndPopISP resources (ROAs et al) with a validity period that ends at 0059:59hrs UTC on that date RIR 1 issues the old MomAndPopISP resources for EngulfAndDevour with a validity period that begins at 0100hrs UTC on that future date. Through all this, routing will still work, RPs don't have a confusing decision to make (validity time takes care of that), no TAs are making conflicting statements due to the time principle, and the structure of the RPKI is simple such that RIRs aren't maintaining CAs of other RIRs, further (and based on a brief email discussion with on RIR policy staff) the resources transferred to an RIR under would stay at that rir, until another transfer event (ERX included). But as randy says, RIR policy are subject to change - best to design this to avoid codifying that in a standard where possible. Terry From terry.mndrsn@gmail.com Thu Mar 12 17:09:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6915A3A67FA for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:09:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.088, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27sdsJl5mz6b for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ti-out-0910.google.com (ti-out-0910.google.com [209.85.142.184]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 577BB3A657C for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:09:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ti-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 11so1209205tim.25 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:10:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=WyDmp6oWKAV0t8IPPWAqJ4I+6TxeP/8l4SKDGghjlCw=; b=pREvVu8WAGNDvUCKfRhxyWo2+Bn7R2Hf6StwIBMPU0Lptro6dR2YLHEVSVslaQRVRB gOeyUFuOAZQ/ia3NcrHCY+6NpP4xc0dB4AY7sHpElY3xeHQg+pWgTIkdponULHHYxoe9 SVKAc7scW2OfZcQaOfUzKY0g8LBbx6+b9Uolw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=ev099lDEF2b7YRjBWLnsLYQ08nqJHOKrC+XDu/vTHmmk3e8fCFnml47NrNCnBTCvb5 BSk9yoemI+gE/+G2mNYLtFBAzWhzpAKoXFf9qVUxHRQodN8GEItcvbjkRG24Ar2VPrlD /AvyzzTd7x4TTqVou19pCdrlruAPx2MJMBdpU= Received: by 10.110.42.17 with SMTP id p17mr719285tip.14.1236903025434; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.102? (c58-108-241-187.fitzg1.qld.optusnet.com.au [58.108.241.187]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d7sm2365958tib.22.2009.03.12.17.10.23 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:10:24 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Terry Manderson Message-Id: <4E285AA4-DA2F-40E3-A155-66E6999EA439@terrym.net> From: Terry Manderson To: K. Sriram In-Reply-To: <49B93C17.40501@nist.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 10:10:20 +1000 References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <49B91FBB.8070401@verizonbusiness.com> <49B923F8.1090504@verizonbusiness.com> <49B93C17.40501@nist.gov> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 00:09:49 -0000 Sriram, On 13/03/2009, at 2:45 AM, K. Sriram wrote: > I am curious as to what happens if MomAndPopISP's address space has > a ROA in region B > created by a higher-tier ISP, say BigISP, in region B. That means, most likely, that the resources listed in the ROA are allocated to BigISP and I would presume that MomAndPopISP were simply 'renting' the resources from BigISP. Otherwise MomAndPopISP would probably create their own ROA if it were PI space. > > Let us say BigISP is an ISP one level higher in the hierarchy above > MomAndPopISP. > As a result, it appears that EngulfAndDevour in Region A would also > need > cooperation of BigISP in Region B to first revoke the existing ROA > before > it can create a new ROA for MomAndPopISP in its own region (Region A)? In that case MomAndPopISP are irrelevant - the transfer is then from BigISP to EngulfAndDevour. > > What incentive will BigISP have to cooperate and help EngulfAndDevour > without causing delays? > All and none. It depends on the business relationship between the two since the resources sound like they are allocated to BigISP, not MomAndPopISP. Terry From randy@psg.com Thu Mar 12 22:10:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB4A23A6AD1 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:10:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zGDsv3VHaTgZ for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C8313A6AA4 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=rmac.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Lhzg3-000BBT-3F; Fri, 13 Mar 2009 05:11:23 +0000 Received: from rmac.psg.com.psg.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rmac.psg.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA3A7F13753; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:11:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:11:22 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Terry Manderson In-Reply-To: <32B58EF0-9F17-46E2-BB70-137A65380FE4@terrym.net> References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <0B16F95A-D8CD-4336-A86C-EAACB5638B7C@terrym.net> <32B58EF0-9F17-46E2-BB70-137A65380FE4@terrym.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.5 (Almost Unreal) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.3 (i386-apple-darwin9.6.0) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Rob Austein , sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 05:10:49 -0000 > EngulfAndDevour acquires MomAndPopISP. > EngulfAndDevour advises both RIRs of the purchase > EngulfAndDevour advises that at 0100hrs UTC on a future date all > resources (ROAs et al) are transferred to RIR 1. > RIR 1 advises RIR 2 to reissue all of MomAndPopISP resources (ROAs et > al) with a validity period that ends at 0059:59hrs UTC on that date > RIR 1 issues the old MomAndPopISP resources for EngulfAndDevour with a > validity period that begins at 0100hrs UTC on that future date. factor in cert/roa propagation delays of a day or two randy From terry.mndrsn@gmail.com Thu Mar 12 22:32:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C6A528C0D0 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:32:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.519 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.519 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.080, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sGEZQQ9ahUnj for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:32:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.229]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D91893A6891 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:32:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id l9so1433556rvb.49 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:33:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=1ACja1tNS+v4uVhi9c66rRtKEieP8NowJVD22HXgODM=; b=qm1NmTtZ4ykZd6pXbLr+cDWsuSHSKsMYbbk5GVaAl8U5MribUTARKVFYNN3UQJYPUd dOUHDHqRbkblQLJ8Sd/0zOnKNjtBZxhHLcZwlo9PKMsITDsJ0oV5v/8kfOf1LHbrX9ep YsSVi4rFRAxQs583TboJyhItZIPc7JTF/NmyE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=qKYW2TH3nwWovZqF2/j2bNpOh4rMSoN0wa6m85r0zGeTLs/YwBddhr9eSU21kzv7BO UqyQi0AQ30WYR1mZ84KKN66qdzxhCfn2njvBwyrdFOnoZ7GJnLv58pYjbDoqs4q72Yr6 ds9UiataONyHsA51YAudpydsEmrUexfnL1g5M= Received: by 10.140.132.3 with SMTP id f3mr364976rvd.21.1236922416002; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.102? (c58-108-241-187.fitzg1.qld.optusnet.com.au [58.108.241.187]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k2sm4999865rvb.4.2009.03.12.22.33.34 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Terry Manderson Message-Id: <16791CF0-7DBB-4A24-A645-5C38D24F66DF@terrym.net> From: Terry Manderson To: Randy Bush In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:33:31 +1000 References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <0B16F95A-D8CD-4336-A86C-EAACB5638B7C@terrym.net> <32B58EF0-9F17-46E2-BB70-137A65380FE4@terrym.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Cc: Rob Austein , sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 05:32:58 -0000 On 13/03/2009, at 3:11 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> EngulfAndDevour acquires MomAndPopISP. >> EngulfAndDevour advises both RIRs of the purchase >> EngulfAndDevour advises that at 0100hrs UTC on a future date all >> resources (ROAs et al) are transferred to RIR 1. >> RIR 1 advises RIR 2 to reissue all of MomAndPopISP resources (ROAs et >> al) with a validity period that ends at 0059:59hrs UTC on that date >> RIR 1 issues the old MomAndPopISP resources for EngulfAndDevour >> with a >> validity period that begins at 0100hrs UTC on that future date. > > factor in cert/roa propagation delays of a day or two > Right, not a last minute activity.. cert issue events need to happen in advance for propagation. T. From randy@psg.com Thu Mar 12 22:52:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19D8E3A689D for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:52:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rrUIFkG-g68V for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FA813A6807 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=rmac.psg.com) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1Li0K6-000BHK-Th; Fri, 13 Mar 2009 05:52:46 +0000 Received: from rmac.psg.com.psg.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rmac.psg.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC5AFF1785F; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:52:46 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Terry Manderson In-Reply-To: <16791CF0-7DBB-4A24-A645-5C38D24F66DF@terrym.net> References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <0B16F95A-D8CD-4336-A86C-EAACB5638B7C@terrym.net> <32B58EF0-9F17-46E2-BB70-137A65380FE4@terrym.net> <16791CF0-7DBB-4A24-A645-5C38D24F66DF@terrym.net> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.5 (Almost Unreal) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.3 (i386-apple-darwin9.6.0) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: Rob Austein , sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 05:52:11 -0000 > Right, not a last minute activity.. cert issue events need to happen > in advance for propagation. which we have been caling "make before break." but we have assumed a lot of user control so the blame is on them when their routing breaks as opposed to automating and finding we need to apologize to some lawyers that it was optimistic. randy From terry.mndrsn@gmail.com Thu Mar 12 23:02:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C9C13A684E for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:02:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.526 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.526 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.073, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5lfx1z-dZGuX for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.230]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5A5F3A6807 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id l9so1445128rvb.49 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:03:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=yJw/nBTe/3HalHah9xtnBbpswGJyec5NglIZwTxWxU4=; b=TjjDGXy6LG+MOVOAJyplofDBf9Rjon2w4LX2RFqojfrkXWq44MX/k7uZSfV6lMcO86 VlWXHLfpqUdhzKZIpn0TaaXAIXtb2p2icdtcIiR86Ymbw89FwdlMtI3vDJ1Lz92Q2n9Z 9bwxGDif2x1exCZCE7kfWWNLRxiNlLkkEkrwg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=f4MSS5SvtncHzlwtwgslNuMj1dbvJJDIry6AXvhIDM8mT9ADQ7wA8lQO7fJwZMJIUz 0oqoSC7NBTx2R2LwnJ8Se5rsNh1X9pAMZQMywUD9MSR89jpAG/z5yNn+3/d2Hbmk/4lT ATvJ+jkFFkvlFNJQ6Ck6vOYM/7qioAfTy8iHg= Received: by 10.140.207.18 with SMTP id e18mr375301rvg.4.1236924182726; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.1.102? (c58-108-241-187.fitzg1.qld.optusnet.com.au [58.108.241.187]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k2sm5045310rvb.4.2009.03.12.23.03.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Terry Manderson Message-Id: <08D3F289-CF2B-4BB4-8747-257EE2F53E35@terrym.net> From: Terry Manderson To: Randy Bush In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v929.2) Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:02:57 +1000 References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <0B16F95A-D8CD-4336-A86C-EAACB5638B7C@terrym.net> <32B58EF0-9F17-46E2-BB70-137A65380FE4@terrym.net> <16791CF0-7DBB-4A24-A645-5C38D24F66DF@terrym.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.929.2) Cc: Rob Austein , sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 06:02:25 -0000 On 13/03/2009, at 3:52 PM, Randy Bush wrote: >> Right, not a last minute activity.. cert issue events need to happen >> in advance for propagation. > > which we have been caling "make before break." but we have assumed a > lot of user control so the blame is on them when their routing > breaks as > opposed to automating and finding we need to apologize to some lawyers > that it was optimistic. I don't think this negates the idea of still having the RTA grow/ shrink versus multi-subordinate other-RIR CAs under a RIR TA. (ie using timed validity to effect a settlement time) But I'll think on this more - while I accept the role of lawyers in modern society, I would prefer to not have bloat in the structure because of them or other organisational effects. Terry From louise.burness@bt.com Thu Mar 12 08:04:27 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ECE13A6826 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:04:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.479 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.479 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D1iz55RcN3aJ for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.smtp.bt.com (smtp2.smtp.bt.com [217.32.164.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEC493A6768 for ; Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from E03MVB2-UKBR.domain1.systemhost.net ([193.113.197.107]) by smtp2.smtp.bt.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:04:57 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:05:01 -0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <49B923F8.1090504@verizonbusiness.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: unsubscribe Thread-Index: AcmjI7DSTIiA61JWQbKaMb1ZvDOShgAACwWQ From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Mar 2009 15:04:58.0183 (UTC) FILETIME=[E8CEF570:01C9A323] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 08:58:32 -0700 Subject: [sidr] unsubscribe X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:04:27 -0000 =20 unsubscribe From danny@tcb.net Sat Mar 14 07:53:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A8F3A68AF for ; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:53:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.043 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.043 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lCNohImZppgF for ; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sa.aa.arbor.net (unknown [204.181.64.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D573D3A686A for ; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (sa.aa.arbor.net [10.1.0.64]) by sa.aa.arbor.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B9C16F16 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:53:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at arbor.net Received: from [10.2.15.109] (sslvpn-109.ma.arbor.net [10.2.15.109]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sa.aa.arbor.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF29E16F14 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:53:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <8AB4F273-AA98-486B-8F15-825A960DE29D@tcb.net> From: Danny McPherson To: sidr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <16791CF0-7DBB-4A24-A645-5C38D24F66DF@terrym.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:54:29 -0600 References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <0B16F95A-D8CD-4336-A86C-EAACB5638B7C@terrym.net> <32B58EF0-9F17-46E2-BB70-137A65380FE4@terrym.net> <16791CF0-7DBB-4A24-A645-5C38D24F66DF@terrym.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:53:53 -0000 On Mar 12, 2009, at 11:33 PM, Terry Manderson wrote: > > Right, not a last minute activity.. cert issue events need to happen > in advance for propagation. And, of course, accommodate the model where the operator "aborts" for any of an array of reasons. There's a critical operational role for RIRs here, and they'd well better be prepared to act in that capacity. -danny From danny@tcb.net Sat Mar 14 07:56:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629593A6A05 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:56:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.043 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.043 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WevXvhthv3bL for ; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sa.aa.arbor.net (unknown [204.181.64.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADA4C3A69DB for ; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:56:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (sa.aa.arbor.net [10.1.0.64]) by sa.aa.arbor.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE67416F16; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:56:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at arbor.net Received: from [10.2.15.109] (sslvpn-109.ma.arbor.net [10.2.15.109]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sa.aa.arbor.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE0F216F14; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 10:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5CDA437F-8722-4095-88A1-513B939B7655@tcb.net> From: Danny McPherson To: sidr@ietf.org, "K. Sriram" In-Reply-To: <49B93C17.40501@nist.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:56:52 -0600 References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com> <49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net> <369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net> <20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net> <49B91FBB.8070401@verizonbusiness.com> <49B923F8.1090504@verizonbusiness.com> <49B93C17.40501@nist.gov> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:56:16 -0000 On Mar 12, 2009, at 10:45 AM, K. Sriram wrote: > I am curious as to what happens if MomAndPopISP's address space has > a ROA in region B > created by a higher-tier ISP, say BigISP, in region B. > Let us say BigISP is an ISP one level higher in the hierarchy above > MomAndPopISP. > As a result, it appears that EngulfAndDevour in Region A would also > need > cooperation of BigISP in Region B to first revoke the existing ROA > before > it can create a new ROA for MomAndPopISP in its own region (Region A)? > What incentive will BigISP have to cooperate and help EngulfAndDevour > without causing delays? The distinction here is PI v. PA space. You shouldn't see this happening for PA space. -danny From bgreene@senki.org Sat Mar 14 08:37:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 202F43A6996 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:37:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.163 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.163 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YLwJm67TOtjC for ; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:37:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from e-llumine.net (unknown [64.105.139.44]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 749193A67D2 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:37:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bgreeneT61 [66.129.225.151] by e-llumine.net with ESMTP (SMTPD-9.10) id AF4401A0; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:37:40 -0700 From: "Barry Raveendran Greene" To: "'Danny McPherson'" , References: <20090309233001.9923C28C225@core3.amsl.com><49B864FE.1070402@apnic.net><369F8728-2D96-4FA3-9553-B9E984CA5313@terrym.net><20090312042728.D72B322829@thrintun.hactrn.net><0B16F95A-D8CD-4336-A86C-EAACB5638B7C@terrym.net><32B58EF0-9F17-46E2-BB70-137A65380FE4@terrym.net><16791CF0-7DBB-4A24-A645-5C38D24F66DF@terrym.net> <8AB4F273-AA98-486B-8F15-825A960DE29D@tcb.net> Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:37:38 -0700 Message-ID: <272B1190CFF446ABA89F23FE2121E753@jnpr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: AcmktMow3xRcfw/mQrWX+6xLAmzwxQABYPKQ In-Reply-To: <8AB4F273-AA98-486B-8F15-825A960DE29D@tcb.net> Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-arch-06.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:37:02 -0000 > There's a critical > operational role for RIRs here, and they'd well better be > prepared to act in that capacity. We're assuming that the RIRs are going to fund and staff for this operational role. That is assumption that would lead to disappointment and operational impact. Some may view this as a outside party imposing cost. IMHO - we need the RIR's to formally sign up - stating that they are willing to take on this operational role with the proper funding to support long term. From terry.mndrsn@gmail.com Tue Mar 24 13:24:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB3083A69A1 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:24:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TWGbMD5mftBU for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.168]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7CA53A680B for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:24:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so3506886wfg.31 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:25:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=Vq0Lgrt+OV9T/V+bjLfx/Mv722yRRRdEfPet8rCzq7I=; b=iINmUdSoe7AmNbFGbTkKEOcTvqSlwPzrMGnxfiGuCcazHNELBOVmr7oblMPeF8m4C2 Ry2luCEH50E31edJe3WaGlVKoO8Yk3zY8MpnDdzcF4BE3HFE+zqB6gICQqLTrA3T1157 /TdM32C2p0Ssh0BrdAVOudnq1DFO1/5hFDwxY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=SPVYrTQ2o2qHYYcQMR6dYXYHzK+FHFtQF8qdDSIQqELPW+eSsBDlaXjs4aB+tF3dcf g5qJaqyjd/xe/UOyscJVIXxNHLRmLfgotSMo2c1B0UasDxl7128F1+m1RSykutAm05ED LyTyDLkTtzEtn8jreQ7xsBO9KKZNRrxuB7l3c= Received: by 10.142.194.1 with SMTP id r1mr3544918wff.122.1237926334339; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:25:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-13eb.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-13eb.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.19.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 29sm1920530wfg.33.2009.03.24.13.25.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:25:33 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Terry Manderson Message-Id: <567A6520-35E6-4E90-AA90-122F719DD273@terrym.net> From: Terry Manderson To: sidr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <47F247DF-2A73-4B6D-9261-A5C688D86855@terrym.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:25:29 +1000 References: <20090227040001.8E86F3A68AB@core3.amsl.com> <47F247DF-2A73-4B6D-9261-A5C688D86855@terrym.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 20:24:44 -0000 Post Geoff's presentation today I thought I would quickly email regarding one point he mentioned, and no one contested. The authors of the draft believe that there should not be an IANA considerations section as there are no protocol number requirements. While the general interpretation of RFC2434 relates to protocol numbers, I think it is important to note that the descriptor to use is 'a namespace' and, in that RFC, is far more broad. I feel as rpki relates so tightly to a set of known registries that an IANA considerations section can be used with without major issues. (and demonstrated in RFC3152 which directs the IANA to a course of action) While I tend to agree with Dave's on mic comments that there needs to be a binary decision and then a pros/cons section in a (the) draft to discuss _technical_ observations between single and multiple TAs, I feel it does not detract from the authors stance of sitting on the fence to promote the existing "recommendation" regarding IANA being a default TA for public address space to the IANA Considerations section and maintained post RFC publication. I would like to say, in the post glow of the WG meeting, that I really appreciate and commend Geoff for identifying his previous organisational attitude towards previous authored drafts and his efforts to present a view that is distanced from his employer. Thankyou. and slightly askew.. Do I think that process was side-stepped in this draft going straight to WG status and not via an individual submission? Maybe, but I do observe that while there was objection regarding the Co-chairs decision I suspect it would be process alone that would require a token individual submission before becoming a WG item. So its not going to burn me if it stays as a WG item. Equally if it serves the proper and just process to make it a indv. submission I can go there too as a WG participant. Cheers Terry From danny@tcb.net Tue Mar 24 18:30:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EB4428C15C for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:30:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.029 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.029 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.088, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12LuUXw+m-FC for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:30:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dog.tcb.net (dog.tcb.net [64.78.150.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1A3C28C19B for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:30:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dog.tcb.net (Postfix, from userid 0) id B673F26866F; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:31:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sslvpn-109.ma.arbor.net (bedford.lex.arbor.net [204.118.128.2]) (authenticated-user danny) (TLSv1/SSLv3 AES128-SHA 128/128) by dog.tcb.net with SMTP; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:31:05 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from danny@tcb.net) Message-Id: <8FB4D02A-0994-49A3-BAC5-72B51D0B98D9@tcb.net> From: Danny McPherson To: Terry Manderson In-Reply-To: <567A6520-35E6-4E90-AA90-122F719DD273@terrym.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:25:51 -0600 References: <20090227040001.8E86F3A68AB@core3.amsl.com> <47F247DF-2A73-4B6D-9261-A5C688D86855@terrym.net> <567A6520-35E6-4E90-AA90-122F719DD273@terrym.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:30:14 -0000 On Mar 24, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Terry Manderson wrote: > Do I think that process was side-stepped in this draft going > straight to WG status and not via an individual submission? Maybe, > but I do observe that while there was objection regarding the Co- > chairs decision I suspect it would be process alone that would > require a token individual submission before becoming a WG item. So > its not going to burn me if it stays as a WG item. Equally if it > serves the proper and just process to make it a indv. submission I > can go there too as a WG participant. My point was that process was not followed - it had nothing to do with the content of the draft. Given the contentiousness of this topic and the importance and architectural implications therein, I maintain my position that process needs to be followed here. Something that you or the chairs believe is trivial may well be of considerable concern to others more or less informed. -danny From danny@tcb.net Tue Mar 24 18:31:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6082028C1C5 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:31:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.035 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.035 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.082, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CU47KT9b4E9T for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dog.tcb.net (dog.tcb.net [64.78.150.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C449128C0DD for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dog.tcb.net (Postfix, from userid 0) id A8E512684EA; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:32:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sslvpn-109.ma.arbor.net (bedford.lex.arbor.net [204.118.128.2]) (authenticated-user danny) (TLSv1/SSLv3 AES128-SHA 128/128) by dog.tcb.net with SMTP; for sidr@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:32:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from danny@tcb.net) Message-Id: <8D606F08-23E0-4CB8-BF81-C6BE21BBCED4@tcb.net> From: Danny McPherson To: sidr@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <8FB4D02A-0994-49A3-BAC5-72B51D0B98D9@tcb.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 19:32:26 -0600 References: <20090227040001.8E86F3A68AB@core3.amsl.com> <47F247DF-2A73-4B6D-9261-A5C688D86855@terrym.net> <567A6520-35E6-4E90-AA90-122F719DD273@terrym.net> <8FB4D02A-0994-49A3-BAC5-72B51D0B98D9@tcb.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Subject: Re: [sidr] I-D Action:draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:31:59 -0000 > > Given the contentiousness of this topic and the importance > and architectural implications therein, I maintain my position > that process needs to be followed here. Something that you or > the chairs believe is trivial may well be of considerable > concern to others more or less informed. And in fairness and for sake of transparency, to illustrate my point: -danny From Sandy.Murphy@sparta.com Wed Mar 25 19:40:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CFD73A6B49 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:40:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7g57ZSpMR+QE for ; Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from M4.sparta.com (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDB673A6809 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id n2Q2fitl022495 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 2009 21:41:44 -0500 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n2Q2fics016144 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 2009 21:41:45 -0500 Received: from SANDYM-LT.columbia.ads.sparta.com ([130.129.19.250]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:32:19 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:32:16 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Sandra Murphy To: sidr@ietf.org Message-ID: X-X-Sender: sandy@nemo.columbia.sparta.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Mar 2009 02:32:19.0759 (UTC) FILETIME=[1612CBF0:01C9ADBB] Subject: [sidr] request for wg adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 02:40:53 -0000 There were objections yesterday in the sidr meeting to the way that draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt became a wg draft. draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt was an extract of an important topic (trust anchors) from the res certs profile document. As this was work that had already been a working group work item, I suggested that it should be submitted as a wg draft, rather than an individual draft. That decision meant that the wg missed an opportunity to explicitly accept this draft as a working group item. Those who objected said that they thought the missing process step was needed. So I am requesting that the working group members state whether or not they accept draft draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt as a working group draft. Please reply (yes or no, both are important) to the list by Thurs 2 April 2009. (The deadline is Thursday rather than Wednesday because (a) it is late and (b) that would make the deadline 1 April 2009, which would send the wrong message.) --Sandy From mlepinsk@bbn.com Wed Mar 25 23:49:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C2AE3A6DFD for ; Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:49:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fGLnlVbva2zp for ; Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx11.bbn.com (mx11.bbn.com [128.33.0.80]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C33E3A6B30 for ; Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.89.252.24] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mx11.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LmjPi-00029h-EL; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 02:50:06 -0400 Message-ID: <49CB24C5.8090703@bbn.com> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 02:46:29 -0400 From: Matt Lepinski Organization: BBN User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sandra Murphy References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] request for wg adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:49:22 -0000 I support the adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00 as a SIDR working group document. - Matt Lepinski Sandra Murphy wrote: > There were objections yesterday in the sidr meeting to the way that > draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt became a wg draft. > > draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt was an extract of an important topic (trust > anchors) from the res certs profile document. As this was work that > had already been a working group work item, I suggested that it should > be submitted as a wg draft, rather than an individual draft. > > That decision meant that the wg missed an opportunity to explicitly > accept this draft as a working group item. > > Those who objected said that they thought the missing process step was > needed. > > So I am requesting that the working group members state whether or not > they accept draft draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt as a working group draft. > > Please reply (yes or no, both are important) to the list by Thurs 2 > April 2009. > > (The deadline is Thursday rather than Wednesday because (a) it is late > and (b) that would make the deadline 1 April 2009, which would send > the wrong message.) > > --Sandy > > _______________________________________________ > sidr mailing list > sidr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr > From terry.mndrsn@gmail.com Thu Mar 26 01:31:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF0903A6982 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:31:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ibf1OZnklWlF for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:31:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.234]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A06983A6452 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id k40so446699rvb.49 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:31:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=JYZP/BlKftyVoEa3pJM5J8hUJt/AKY/kew6alVfu6Bs=; b=PahG2vIOssHmdF0OIrYNfkb5NcibR7+rNk0rlTer9GjvLNOUauTCYME3BQihgWPDkK uCaNRlg6boeoS/U3Iau9hVQ7ayU86e9lWlXM7nwh20Y8WoVBzF+Sp/95gCykJBl8ZfRT UA/QBHJs1t7YfXFV7p5SjOalYF7mBnCX63kUo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=BCYom5//4iuCUIzGpfcPmsmht1X1gCAVo0GkHhXDBCmHD4px0G/nVtQ2llgZfCkJfP wj9aBBLQNU+z8JYYTzx9UcKrfhuGQe16zDqBspUc90+iPpmlSexsgE7rhOylYzxa9KBc B3EewZ8M+n24Vc8Avj/dgu6K6AlklfIwm3EJU= Received: by 10.142.233.16 with SMTP id f16mr254430wfh.329.1238056318324; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-44f0.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-44f0.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.68.240]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 9sm17749167wfc.40.2009.03.26.01.31.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Terry Manderson Message-Id: <829EBC03-167C-4D12-9831-A0ADD4B43D33@terrym.net> From: Terry Manderson To: Sandra Murphy In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 18:31:55 +1000 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] request for wg adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:31:06 -0000 I support draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00 becoming a work group item. Terry On 26/03/2009, at 12:32 PM, Sandra Murphy wrote: > There were objections yesterday in the sidr meeting to the way that > draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt became a wg draft. > > draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt was an extract of an important topic > (trust anchors) from the res certs profile document. As this was > work that had already been a working group work item, I suggested > that it should be submitted as a wg draft, rather than an individual > draft. > > That decision meant that the wg missed an opportunity to explicitly > accept this draft as a working group item. > > Those who objected said that they thought the missing process step > was needed. > > So I am requesting that the working group members state whether or > not they accept draft draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt as a working group > draft. > > Please reply (yes or no, both are important) to the list by Thurs 2 > April 2009. > > (The deadline is Thursday rather than Wednesday because (a) it is > late and (b) that would make the deadline 1 April 2009, which would > send the wrong message.) > > --Sandy > > _______________________________________________ > sidr mailing list > sidr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr From Sandy.Murphy@sparta.com Thu Mar 26 06:40:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3533A6884 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:40:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.535 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.535 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.064, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UIHO-LWt07Jy for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from M4.sparta.com (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 923983A684B for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 06:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id n2QDfGHb026165 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:41:16 -0500 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n2QDfARO026239 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:41:17 -0500 Received: from SANDYM-LT.columbia.ads.sparta.com ([10.71.0.59]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:38:03 -0400 Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:38:01 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Sandra Murphy To: sidr@ietf.org Message-ID: X-X-Sender: sandy@nemo.columbia.sparta.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Mar 2009 13:38:03.0810 (UTC) FILETIME=[16954820:01C9AE18] Subject: [sidr] use cases to judge validation schemes X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:40:25 -0000 The sidr meeting on Tuesday saw an energetic discussion of different ways of validating BGP routes against the information in ROAs, particularly during the time of partial deployment. At the mike people suggested various cases of allocation, sub-allocation, more and less specific announcements, customers who were or were not able to participate in the RPKI, etc. Russ White suggested at the time that it would be good to have a set of use cases against which to judge the various validation schemes. Russ has volunteered to put together a set of use cases. He says that if anyone would like to join him in creating these use cases, they should eamil him, riw@cisco.com. --Sandy From kent@bbn.com Thu Mar 26 08:51:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13AFD3A6B06 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:51:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.472 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.472 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.127, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wocUdyATClFq for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx3.bbn.com (mx3.bbn.com [128.33.1.81]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 613B53A6AB5 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:51:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dommiel.bbn.com ([192.1.122.15] helo=[130.129.68.195]) by mx3.bbn.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Lmrsf-0001GA-Cr; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:52:34 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:50:23 -0400 To: Sandra Murphy From: Stephen Kent Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] request for wg adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:51:42 -0000 I support adoption of the TA draft as a SIDR WG document. Steve From randy@psg.com Thu Mar 26 09:15:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 401AF3A68BF for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:15:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.556 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.556 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xhgvMfTKILCu for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ran.psg.com (ran.psg.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::36]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 458083A6BAE for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=rmac.psg.om) by ran.psg.com with esmtp (Exim 4.69 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1LmsFt-0002Sk-D9; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:16:33 +0000 Received: from dhcp-17e8.meeting.ietf.org.psg.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rmac.psg.om (Postfix) with ESMTP id 484904A0289; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:16:33 -0700 Message-ID: From: Randy Bush To: Sandra Murphy In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.5 (Almost Unreal) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.9 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Goj=F2?=) APEL/10.7 Emacs/22.3 (i386-apple-darwin9.6.0) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] request for wg adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:15:43 -0000 > So I am requesting that the working group members state whether or not > they accept draft draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt as a working group draft. i am happy to accept the work in the wg if only to chop the hell out of it. i think the document is sorely broken and the complexity is a sick kludge to deal with rir disfunction and machiavellian politics. randy From jcurran@istaff.org Thu Mar 26 09:25:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC09228C0D6 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:25:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KayaAbA2aPu9 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from midgard.seastrom.com (midgard.seastrom.com [IPv6:2610:178:1:1:203:47ff:fefd:df3e]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B2FC3A6AB5 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:25:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [32.157.168.59] (helo=[10.91.23.124]) by midgard.seastrom.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (authenticated id=box0219) id 1LmsPm-0001IB-7I; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:26:47 -0400 References: Message-Id: From: John Curran To: Stephen Kent In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (5H11) Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 5H11) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:26:39 -0700 Cc: "sidr@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sidr] request for wg adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:25:57 -0000 /John On Mar 26, 2009, at 8:50 AM, Stephen Kent wrote: > I support adoption of the TA draft as a SIDR WG document. > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > sidr mailing list > sidr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr From jcurran@istaff.org Thu Mar 26 09:27:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CCB328C160 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:27:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gLfwlM8-cjf6 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from midgard.seastrom.com (midgard.seastrom.com [IPv6:2610:178:1:1:203:47ff:fefd:df3e]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A9ED28C0DE for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [32.157.168.59] (helo=[10.91.23.124]) by midgard.seastrom.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (authenticated id=box0219) id 1LmsQl-0001Ia-Sy; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:27:49 -0400 References: Message-Id: From: John Curran To: Stephen Kent , Sandra Murphy In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (5H11) Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 5H11) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:27:41 -0700 Cc: "sidr@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sidr] request for wg adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:27:00 -0000 I also support the draft as a WG document. /John On Mar 26, 2009, at 8:50 AM, Stephen Kent wrote: > I support adoption of the TA draft as a SIDR WG document. > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > sidr mailing list > sidr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr From danny@tcb.net Thu Mar 26 09:53:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D83C3A6897 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:53:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.04 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.04 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pVJTXMj3k8sz for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dog.tcb.net (dog.tcb.net [64.78.150.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA6003A67DD for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dog.tcb.net (Postfix, from userid 0) id 7B85D2684EA; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 10:54:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sslvpn-109.ma.arbor.net (bedford.lex.arbor.net [204.118.128.2]) (authenticated-user danny) (TLSv1/SSLv3 AES128-SHA 128/128) by dog.tcb.net with SMTP; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 10:54:46 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from danny@tcb.net) Message-Id: <1972C452-E6D0-4BBC-B38C-49115DC961D7@tcb.net> From: Danny McPherson To: Sandra Murphy In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 10:54:29 -0600 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] request for wg adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:53:53 -0000 I support the adoption of sidr-ta as a WG document. -danny On Mar 25, 2009, at 8:32 PM, Sandra Murphy wrote: > There were objections yesterday in the sidr meeting to the way that > draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt became a wg draft. > > draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt was an extract of an important topic > (trust anchors) from the res certs profile document. As this was > work that had already been a working group work item, I suggested > that it should be submitted as a wg draft, rather than an individual > draft. > > That decision meant that the wg missed an opportunity to explicitly > accept this draft as a working group item. > > Those who objected said that they thought the missing process step > was needed. > > So I am requesting that the working group members state whether or > not they accept draft draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt as a working group > draft. > > Please reply (yes or no, both are important) to the list by Thurs 2 > April 2009. > > (The deadline is Thursday rather than Wednesday because (a) it is > late and (b) that would make the deadline 1 April 2009, which would > send the wrong message.) > > --Sandy > > _______________________________________________ > sidr mailing list > sidr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr From housley@vigilsec.com Thu Mar 26 17:59:38 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 769283A688C for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:59:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.512 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.512 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nShwuci8YS7Z for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from odin.smetech.net (mail.smetech.net [208.254.26.82]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD2693A6872 for ; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:59:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [208.254.26.81]) by odin.smetech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F999A471B; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:00:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smetech.net Received: from odin.smetech.net ([208.254.26.82]) by localhost (ronin.smetech.net [208.254.26.81]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u6sxObjrSWdY; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:00:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com (dhcp-11fc.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.17.252]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by odin.smetech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFD09A477A; Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:00:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:00:19 -0400 To: Sandra Murphy ,sidr@ietf.org From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: <20090327010042.BAFD09A477A@odin.smetech.net> Subject: Re: [sidr] request for wg adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 00:59:38 -0000 >I am requesting that the working group members state whether or not >they accept draft draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt as a working group draft. Since the certificate profile was already accepted by the WG, and the subject of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt was previously part of that certificate profile document, it seems completely reasonable for this to go straight to a WG document. Please work on this important topic. Russ From robert@ripe.net Fri Mar 27 02:22:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61BE03A696A for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 02:22:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.227 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.227 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.628, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cYW-Qt+xTlcS for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 02:22:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postlady.ripe.net (postlady.ripe.net [193.0.19.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 892123A68E8 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 02:22:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from herring.ripe.net ([193.0.1.203]) by postlady.ripe.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ln8Hx-0003Ui-Vc for sidr@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:23:49 +0100 Received: from Kistel-Mac.local (chimp.ripe.net [193.0.1.199]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB5032F592 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:23:45 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <49CC9B21.1020105@ripe.net> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 10:23:45 +0100 From: Robert Kisteleki Organization: RIPE NCC User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Macintosh/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sidr@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Spam-Level: ---- X-RIPE-Signature: 72e00e6d7601fa19264e98abc238a274ad89462a43015c4d8e2eef99d59eecaa Subject: Re: [sidr] request for wg adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 09:22:57 -0000 I also support the adoption of this document. Robert Sandra Murphy wrote: > There were objections yesterday in the sidr meeting to the way that > draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt became a wg draft. > > draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt was an extract of an important topic (trust > anchors) from the res certs profile document. As this was work that had > already been a working group work item, I suggested that it should be > submitted as a wg draft, rather than an individual draft. > > That decision meant that the wg missed an opportunity to explicitly > accept this draft as a working group item. > > Those who objected said that they thought the missing process step was > needed. > > So I am requesting that the working group members state whether or not > they accept draft draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt as a working group draft. > > Please reply (yes or no, both are important) to the list by Thurs 2 > April 2009. > > (The deadline is Thursday rather than Wednesday because (a) it is late > and (b) that would make the deadline 1 April 2009, which would send the > wrong message.) > > --Sandy > > _______________________________________________ > sidr mailing list > sidr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr From terry.mndrsn@gmail.com Fri Mar 27 12:59:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 733D73A698E for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:59:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 64iW2UzDiDiQ for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com (rv-out-0506.google.com [209.85.198.228]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4BE03A687C for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id k40so1213859rvb.49 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:00:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:message-id:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date :x-mailer; bh=XvWvhvWWADwJAtiK/AWP8tVYs7kT0+ezIjLdwJDwtbo=; b=MwzKO5PMo/vAZEJcKxgUojFHiDzKtJtdsnhgKekqlU/ZnLmU7j3TYKxUT58TofqYm4 j4Kcrx0kzmWMQtZwNoPOzXND6x3v/UzFD42e3I/5RylGsA/QWKCbJfUryV/DNN6jN2tC cnZ7QqkxxNzAr5mhntVv/EK9B022r8CKNd414= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version:subject:date:x-mailer; b=rbb8iQQPGwguxm2d+m7SggcuoZxEFu9I7MJFszHBmpXh/qIZk/1MXAE0DrKxiaT5Mn DnbXhX4M+NIdCTlPMT7gBLBCxgb3aeesvMKh+J2cTBQ3mK14ddguQRVqy5qQEOrRY4pn MuaJTK1aBd3bI1/ziFzOuxt7/fMua89AXHskE= Received: by 10.142.231.7 with SMTP id d7mr1028467wfh.285.1238184014631; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:00:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-13eb.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-13eb.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.19.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 30sm3650301wfa.18.2009.03.27.13.00.14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:00:14 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Terry Manderson Message-Id: <4341D49F-9D71-4800-9BDE-EE0CA228E5A0@terrym.net> From: Terry Manderson To: sidr@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:00:10 +1000 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Subject: [sidr] informational draft on the interpretations of ROAs by example X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 19:59:20 -0000 All, In the WG meeting, if I heard correctly, it was stated that there needs to be a consistent reference for how to interpret ROAs with examples so that we are consistent in discussion and help newcomers grok this rpki space. I have started cutting some words in this space, however before going to far - is this something that would be of value to the WG and the body of work? (I think yes, but what I think doesn't always represent the larger view ;) Cheers Terry From Sandy.Murphy@sparta.com Fri Mar 27 13:52:04 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F1A3A6CB7 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:52:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fSN-4uXdd1-Z for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from M4.sparta.com (M4.sparta.com [157.185.61.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 061023A6CAC for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Beta5.sparta.com (beta5.sparta.com [157.185.63.21]) by M4.sparta.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id n2RKqwAR018648; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:52:58 -0500 Received: from nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com (nemo.columbia.sparta.com [157.185.80.75]) by Beta5.sparta.com (8.12.11/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n2RKqwSc021639; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:52:58 -0500 Received: from SANDYM-LT.columbia.ads.sparta.com ([130.129.19.250]) by nemo.columbia.ads.sparta.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:52:42 -0400 Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:52:39 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Sandra Murphy To: Terry Manderson In-Reply-To: <4341D49F-9D71-4800-9BDE-EE0CA228E5A0@terrym.net> Message-ID: References: <4341D49F-9D71-4800-9BDE-EE0CA228E5A0@terrym.net> X-X-Sender: sandy@nemo.columbia.sparta.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Mar 2009 20:52:43.0229 (UTC) FILETIME=[F98A90D0:01C9AF1D] Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] informational draft on the interpretations of ROAs by example X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:52:05 -0000 Terry, did you see my message to the list about Russ White's volunteering to try to assemble use cases? He said that anyone wanting to help should email him. Also: the interpretation of ROAs is what we spent a lot of time on in the meeting. So if you write up words in this space, would you be providing one (new?) interpretation or trying to document the various possible interpretations? --Sandy On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Terry Manderson wrote: > All, > > In the WG meeting, if I heard correctly, it was stated that there needs to be > a consistent reference for how to interpret ROAs with examples so that we are > consistent in discussion and help newcomers grok this rpki space. > > I have started cutting some words in this space, however before going to far > - is this something that would be of value to the WG and the body of work? (I > think yes, but what I think doesn't always represent the larger view ;) > > Cheers > Terry > _______________________________________________ > sidr mailing list > sidr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr From robertl@apnic.net Fri Mar 27 13:56:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99DE23A6C89 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:56:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kPSJgHZiFOEm for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:56:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp.apnic.net (oregano.apnic.net [IPv6:2001:dc0:2001:a:4608::60]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9824B3A6A56 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [114.72.2.67] (unknown [114.72.2.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by asmtp.apnic.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFA05110041; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:57:48 +1000 (EST) References: Message-Id: <0166531F-740B-4D5C-9119-823124AD2AA5@apnic.net> From: Robert Loomans To: Sandra Murphy In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (5G77) Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPhone Mail 5G77) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:57:42 +1000 Cc: "sidr@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sidr] request for wg adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 20:56:57 -0000 Yes, please adopt this draft as a WG item. Rob -- Robert Loomans On 26/03/2009, at 12:32, Sandra Murphy wrote: > There were objections yesterday in the sidr meeting to the way that > draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt became a wg draft. > > draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt was an extract of an important topic > (trust anchors) from the res certs profile document. As this was > work that had already been a working group work item, I suggested > that it should be submitted as a wg draft, rather than an individual > draft. > > That decision meant that the wg missed an opportunity to explicitly > accept this draft as a working group item. > > Those who objected said that they thought the missing process step > was needed. > > So I am requesting that the working group members state whether or > not they accept draft draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt as a working group > draft. > > Please reply (yes or no, both are important) to the list by Thurs 2 > April 2009. > > (The deadline is Thursday rather than Wednesday because (a) it is > late and (b) that would make the deadline 1 April 2009, which would > send the wrong message.) > > --Sandy > > _______________________________________________ > sidr mailing list > sidr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr From terry.mndrsn@gmail.com Fri Mar 27 14:07:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D28523A68DE for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c1EaoJmvinF7 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.169]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29A4A3A687C for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 24so1523210wfg.31 for ; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:08:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=MopYuZx0WdNxWG2auQ2c0v6ET4ct+P02JwrGXqllMVE=; b=kUv5nHGGFYfIYWqlzu7Z5fm70kujtxb62vGtTIlKi48+3UdE1kwL3J5+mLC7pXj4rk YJvIHUKVw81RdyL3UHZB6SDvRbOP07cD9WD0GFLnmJX/4w8ptJzxtDCk5LYn8fLNqrV3 0GaNKhn5DZk23w1g52fpGlghFza7ytgQDEyCQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=QQ+A/DjGMTJ2Jin/jGsA9WQxis7Wo15Yoey5VSpEdMc7lM/L+bzcI2M7DD7lwafzDy LTD6kc1yZz23MEqrYp8Tjaj5/qOm2hHbYENrQzNX0l7+90lhCUS7rJAfRCchwBHjTv67 6kWKU/Aa1E/hK5SXBmUwdLWgri/uA19p8Jr7U= Received: by 10.142.214.5 with SMTP id m5mr1053041wfg.266.1238188112258; Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-13eb.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-13eb.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.19.235]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 30sm3777368wfd.55.2009.03.27.14.08.31 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Terry Manderson Message-Id: From: Terry Manderson To: Sandra Murphy In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 07:08:29 +1000 References: <4341D49F-9D71-4800-9BDE-EE0CA228E5A0@terrym.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] informational draft on the interpretations of ROAs by example X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:07:37 -0000 On 28/03/2009, at 6:52 AM, Sandra Murphy wrote: > Terry, did you see my message to the list about Russ White's > volunteering to try to assemble use cases? He said that anyone > wanting to help should email him. No I didn't.. But it is clearly in the archives.. But my maillogs imply i didn't recieve it :-( I'll mail Russ.. apologies. > > > Also: the interpretation of ROAs is what we spent a lot of time on > in the meeting. So if you write up words in this space, would you > be providing one (new?) interpretation or trying to document the > various possible interpretations? > The latter. Terry From roque@lacnic.net Sat Mar 28 17:26:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E537F3A67F4 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:26:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.394 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.394 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.204, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t2q9wkquxiWF for ; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.lacnic.net.uy (mail.lacnic.net.uy [IPv6:2001:13c7:7001:4000::3]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45E9B3A6988 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-110e.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-110e.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.17.14]) by mail.lacnic.net.uy (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7598130845F; Sat, 28 Mar 2009 21:27:13 -0300 (UYT) Message-Id: <1D3211E8-FB6B-465F-B92C-9AAA53264F9D@lacnic.net> From: Roque Gagliano To: sidr@ietf.org, Sandra Murphy In-Reply-To: <0166531F-740B-4D5C-9119-823124AD2AA5@apnic.net> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-22-133700711" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 17:27:01 -0700 References: <0166531F-740B-4D5C-9119-823124AD2AA5@apnic.net> X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail d55 (v55, Leopard) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-LACNIC.uy-MailScanner-From: roque@lacnic.net Subject: Re: [sidr] request for wg adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 00:26:25 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-22-133700711 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-21-133700660 --Apple-Mail-21-133700660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I support this document as WG item. Roque Gagliano LACNIC. > > > > On 26/03/2009, at 12:32, Sandra Murphy wrote: > >> There were objections yesterday in the sidr meeting to the way that >> draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt became a wg draft. >> >> draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt was an extract of an important topic >> (trust anchors) from the res certs profile document. As this was >> work that had already been a working group work item, I suggested >> that it should be submitted as a wg draft, rather than an >> individual draft. >> >> That decision meant that the wg missed an opportunity to explicitly >> accept this draft as a working group item. >> >> Those who objected said that they thought the missing process step >> was needed. >> >> So I am requesting that the working group members state whether or >> not they accept draft draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt as a working group >> draft. >> >> Please reply (yes or no, both are important) to the list by Thurs 2 >> April 2009. >> >> (The deadline is Thursday rather than Wednesday because (a) it is >> late and (b) that would make the deadline 1 April 2009, which would >> send the wrong message.) >> >> --Sandy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sidr mailing list >> sidr@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr > _______________________________________________ > sidr mailing list > sidr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sidr --Apple-Mail-21-133700660 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I support this document as = WG item.

Roque = Gagliano
LACNIC.





On 26/03/2009, at 12:32, Sandra = Murphy <sandy@sparta.com> = wrote:

There were objections yesterday = in the sidr meeting to the way that draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt became a = wg draft.

draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt was an extract of an important = topic (trust anchors) from the res certs profile document.  As this = was work that had already been a working group work item, I suggested = that it should be submitted as a wg draft, rather than an individual = draft.

That decision = meant that the wg missed an opportunity to explicitly accept this draft = as a working group item.

Those who = objected said that they thought the missing process step was = needed.

So I am = requesting that the working group members state whether or not they = accept draft draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt as a working group = draft.

Please reply = (yes or no, both are important) to the list by Thurs 2 April = 2009.

(The deadline = is Thursday rather than Wednesday because (a) it is late and (b) that = would make the deadline 1 April 2009, which would send the wrong = message.)

--Sandy

_______________________________________________
sidr mailing = list
sidr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/sidr
_________________________________= ______________
sidr mailing list
sidr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/sidr

= --Apple-Mail-21-133700660-- --Apple-Mail-22-133700711 content-type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: This is a digitally signed message part content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAknOwFYACgkQnk+WSgHpbO5auQCeM2xjBei0hOexH/+rPWSTN984 yBIAn0tD+jZBKPIYL2/OFglL48cT6c36 =C3ns -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-22-133700711-- From ietf@hardjono.net Mon Mar 30 11:58:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AAD03A69E9 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:58:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.444 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.444 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.109, BAYES_50=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IbDM0DoiFZNP for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:58:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound-mail-103.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-103.bluehost.com [69.89.22.13]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 631453A6D48 for ; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:58:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 6598 invoked by uid 0); 30 Mar 2009 18:59:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box251.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.51) by outboundproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 30 Mar 2009 18:59:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=hardjono.net; h=Received:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:Content-Language:X-Identified-User; b=jbdQj/8WIm5RYOZufRQyl3P4sDRE7OD5ZQtRlfO4zHjg8vHVtW93rVaBZjnXpNX0Z5fvlsTvSmm+7bYu/SzioEN7hILQ2TDotH8IYiHTdn1EBsJyvNByVVKcp1DeYZRQ; Received: from [131.107.204.126] (helo=thomasvnf1ekrv) by box251.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LoMi6-0000cF-V5; Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:59:51 -0600 From: "Thomas Hardjono" To: Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 13:59:56 -0500 Message-ID: <004101c9b169$b8530220$28f90660$@net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcmxabdFAgRnJzo3Qyu1SfxMNYZHdg== Content-Language: en-us X-Identified-User: {727:box251.bluehost.com:hardjono:hardjono.net} {sentby:smtp auth 131.107.204.126 authed with ietf+hardjono.net} Cc: hardjono@mit.edu Subject: Re: [sidr] request for wg adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:58:55 -0000 Yes, please adopt this draft as a WG item. TAs and TA management are important tools/features for next-gen routing security. /thomas/ From aalain@afribone.trstech.net Tue Mar 31 17:41:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: sidr@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 090EF3A6ADB for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:41:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kPaxox2XPTZv for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from afribone.trstech.net (isc.trstech.net [IPv6:2001:4f8:0:1::23:2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F263B3A6B16 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [41.207.162.4] (helo=[192.168.1.12]) by afribone.trstech.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Lonm6-0006hP-5D; Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:53:47 +0000 Message-Id: <5353C250-36E1-487F-8820-9800D289A1FC@trstech.net> From: ALAIN AINA To: Sandra Murphy In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 00:42:08 +0000 References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) Sender: aalain@afribone.trstech.net X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 41.207.162.4 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: aalain@afribone.trstech.net X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:57:52 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on afribone.trstech.net) Cc: sidr@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sidr] request for wg adoption of draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt X-BeenThere: sidr@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Secure Interdomain Routing List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 00:41:28 -0000 On Mar 26, 2009, at 2:32 AM, Sandra Murphy wrote: > There were objections yesterday in the sidr meeting to the way that > draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt became a wg draft. > > draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt was an extract of an important topic > (trust anchors) from the res certs profile document. As this was > work that had already been a working group work item, I suggested > that it should be submitted as a wg draft, rather than an individual > draft. > > That decision meant that the wg missed an opportunity to explicitly > accept this draft as a working group item. > > Those who objected said that they thought the missing process step > was needed. > > So I am requesting that the working group members state whether or > not they accept draft draft-ietf-sidr-ta-00.txt as a working group > draft. > > Please reply (yes or no, both are important) to the list by Thurs 2 > April 2009. > > (The deadline is Thursday rather than Wednesday because (a) it is > late and (b) that would make the deadline 1 April 2009, which would > send the wrong message.) > I also support the draft as WG draft. --alain