From owner-ietf-mta-filters Wed Dec 6 20:57:55 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23415 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 20:57:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from bsd.gymparnr.sk (bsd.gymparnr.sk [195.168.176.67]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA23378 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 20:57:50 -0800 (PST) From: hjghjgjh@yahoo.com Received: (qmail 16771 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2000 00:18:20 -0000 Received: from 1cust62.tnt1.los-angeles.ca.da.uu.net (HELO ng1e7BrZ3?) (63.57.183.62) by bsd.gymparnr.sk with SMTP; 6 Dec 2000 00:18:20 -0000 DATE: 05 Dec 00 4:37:56 PM Message-ID: SUBJECT: 1+1=2 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: The Internet's Finest and Most Reliable Bulk Email Provider! Since 1996, Tech Data Technologies has provided bulk email service to thousands of well-satisfied customers. 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From owner-ietf-mta-filters Tue Dec 12 07:57:21 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA24055 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 07:57:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from c000.snv.cp.net (c000-h001.c000.snv.cp.net [209.228.32.65]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA24048 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 07:57:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (cpmta 19519 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2000 07:59:26 -0800 Received: from commercial.ucs.ed.ac.uk (HELO nige) (129.215.200.115) by smtp.swinson.com (209.228.32.65) with SMTP; 12 Dec 2000 07:59:26 -0800 X-Sent: 12 Dec 2000 15:59:26 GMT Message-ID: <025d01c06454$5b2166c0$73c8d781@nige> From: "Nigel Swinson" To: Subject: Questions about the Require Command. Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:58:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_025A_01C06454.5A60D5E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_025A_01C06454.5A60D5E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2 Questions. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- 2.10.5 Extensions and Optional Features If an extension is not enabled with "require", implementations MUST treat it as if they did not support it at all. By this do we mean that if a script uses a fileinto action, but didn't = declare it with require, then we should produce an "unsupported = extension" error when we reach the fileinto token even if we support = fileinto? i.e. take the following script. require "regex" if (header :regex "Cc"=20 "Some regular expression or other") { fileinto "FolderName"; } If we support both fileinto and regex are we meant to produce an error = here? I could see how you could interpret section 2.10.5 this way but = surely if we are being conservative with what we produce, and liberal = with what we receive we should accept this script and accept the = fileinto command? Could someone clear this up for me? I'd suggest a re-wording of the = section to make the intention clearer/more spelt out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- 3.2 Control Structure Require The require command, if present, MUST be used before anything other than a require can be used. An error occurs if a require appears after a command other than require. Could we improve the wording here too? It took me quite a while to get = my head round what you were getting at (even though I could have = guessed). I am assuming that this means that you may only have = comments, whitespace and require commands before a require command. It = could read: Require commands, if present, MUST occur before all other types of = command in the script. An error occurs if a require appears after a = command other than require. So therefore this would be ok: /* This is the main require extension command that declares the = extensions that we are about to use */ require ["regex","fileinto"] # This is an auxilliary require command added by a user. require "x_some_other_extentsion" if (header :regex "Cc"=20 "Some regular expression or other") { fileinto "FolderName"; } but not require "regex" if (header :regex "Cc"=20 "Some regular expression or other") { keep; stop; } require "fileinto" -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Could I also just say that THE ONLY avenue though which this mail = account is getting any junk mail at all, is through being on this = mailing list. Kinda ironic isn't it? Cheers, Nigel ------=_NextPart_000_025A_01C06454.5A60D5E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2 Questions.
2.10.5 Extensions and Optional=20 Features
 
<snip>
 
If an extension is not enabled with = "require",=20 implementations MUST
treat it as if they did not support it at=20 all.
By this do we mean that if a script = uses a fileinto=20 action, but didn't declare it with require, then we should produce an=20 "unsupported extension" error when we reach the fileinto token even if = we=20 support fileinto?
 
i.e. take the following = script.
require "regex"
 
if (header :regex "Cc" =
    "Some regular = expression or=20 other") {
    fileinto=20 "FolderName";
}
If we support both fileinto and regex = are we meant=20 to produce an error here?  I could see how you could interpret = section=20 2.10.5 this way but surely if we are being conservative with what we = produce,=20 and liberal with what we receive we should accept this script and accept = the=20 fileinto command?
 
Could someone clear this up for = me?  I'd=20 suggest a re-wording of the section to make the intention clearer/more = spelt=20 out.
 
3.2 Control Structure = Require
 
<snip>

The require command, if present, MUST be used before = anything=20 other
than a require can be used. An error occurs if a require=20 appears
after a command other than require.

Could we improve the wording here too?  It took = me quite a=20 while to get my head round what you were getting at (even though I could = have=20 guessed).  I am assuming that this means that you may only have = comments,=20 whitespace and require commands before a require command.  It = could=20 read:

Require commands, if present, MUST occur before = all other=20 types of command in the script.  An error occurs if a require = appears=20 after a command other than require.

So therefore this would be ok:

/* This is the main require extension command that = declares=20 the extensions that we are about to use */
require ["regex","fileinto"]
 
# This is an auxilliary require command added by a = user.
require "x_some_other_extentsion"
 
if (header :regex "Cc"
    "Some regular expression or = other")=20 {
    fileinto = "FolderName";
}
but not
require = "regex"
if (header :regex "Cc"
    "Some regular = expression or=20 other") {
    keep;
    stop;
}
 
require=20 "fileinto"

Could I also just say that THE ONLY avenue though = which this=20 mail account is getting any junk mail at all, is through being on this = mailing=20 list.  Kinda ironic isn't it?

Cheers,

Nigel

 ------=_NextPart_000_025A_01C06454.5A60D5E0-- From owner-ietf-mta-filters Tue Dec 12 13:58:03 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17573 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:58:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (mauve.mrochek.com [209.55.107.55]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17569 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:58:02 -0800 (PST) From: ned.freed@innosoft.com Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01JXM80OZRUO0009PW@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 14:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Questions about the Require Command. In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:58:22 +0000" <025d01c06454$5b2166c0$73c8d781@nige> To: Nigel Swinson Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01JXMB2FZO6C0009PW@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: > 2 Questions. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 2.10.5 Extensions and Optional Features > > If an extension is not enabled with "require", implementations MUST > treat it as if they did not support it at all. > By this do we mean that if a script uses a fileinto action, but didn't > declare it with require, then we should produce an "unsupported extension" > error when we reach the fileinto token even if we support fileinto? The important thing is that an error is produced. I don't think it is critical that the specific error be "unsupported extension". After all, we don't even have a precise error return model in this work. > i.e. take the following script. > require "regex" > if (header :regex "Cc" > "Some regular expression or other") { > fileinto "FolderName"; > } > If we support both fileinto and regex are we meant to produce an error here? I believe you should produce an error in this case. > I could see how you could interpret section 2.10.5 this way but surely if we > are being conservative with what we produce, and liberal with what we receive > we should accept this script and accept the fileinto command? IMO this isn't a good place to apply this principle. > Could someone clear this up for me? I'd suggest a re-wording of the section > to make the intention clearer/more spelt out. I have to say I see nothing unclear here. If you don't have a require clause for a particular extension it isn't legal to use it. Requiring an unrelated extension doesn't change this. > 3.2 Control Structure Require > > The require command, if present, MUST be used before anything other > than a require can be used. An error occurs if a require appears > after a command other than require. > Could we improve the wording here too? It took me quite a while to get my > head round what you were getting at (even though I could have guessed). I am > assuming that this means that you may only have comments, whitespace and > require commands before a require command. It could read: > Require commands, if present, MUST occur before all other types of command > in the script. An error occurs if a require appears after a command other than > require. I have no problem with this. > So therefore this would be ok: > /* This is the main require extension command that declares the extensions that we are about to use */ > require ["regex","fileinto"] > # This is an auxilliary require command added by a user. > require "x_some_other_extentsion" > if (header :regex "Cc" > "Some regular expression or other") { > fileinto "FolderName"; > } > but not > require "regex" > if (header :regex "Cc" > "Some regular expression or other") { > keep; > stop; > } > require "fileinto" Yes, exactly. Ned From owner-ietf-mta-filters Wed Dec 13 06:10:59 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA19637 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 06:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from c000.snv.cp.net (c000-h008.c000.snv.cp.net [209.228.32.72]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA19628 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 06:10:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (cpmta 1100 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2000 06:13:03 -0800 Received: from commercial.ucs.ed.ac.uk (HELO nige) (129.215.200.115) by smtp.swinson.com (209.228.32.72) with SMTP; 13 Dec 2000 06:13:03 -0800 X-Sent: 13 Dec 2000 14:13:03 GMT Message-ID: <02cd01c0650e$a86ae860$73c8d781@nige> From: "Nigel Swinson" To: References: <01JXMB2FZO6C0009PW@mauve.mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Questions about the Require Command. Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:11:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns.secondary.com id GAA19631 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: > > i.e. take the following script. > > require "regex" > > > if (header :regex "Cc" > > "Some regular expression or other") { > > fileinto "FolderName"; > > } > > > If we support both fileinto and regex are we meant to produce an error here? > > Could someone clear this up for me? I'd suggest a re-wording of the section > > to make the intention clearer/more spelt out. > > I have to say I see nothing unclear here. If you don't have a require clause > for a particular extension it isn't legal to use it. Requiring an unrelated > extension doesn't change this. Well I seem to have interpreted it correctly, so from that point of view I guess it is clear, but I just don't understand why we want to operate this way. Why should it only be legal to use an extension if it was previously declared with a require command? What does this gain us? I agree that it is naughty to use a command without "require"-ing it beforehand. GUIs/users should make every effort to make sure this list is upto date. But it seems a bit harsh to fail a script when it uses an extension that we know about, where it wasn't "require"d at the top of the script. It certainly makes things more complicated in our Sieve engines as we need to have a list of available extensions that is added to by means of the require command. Then whenever we find an extension we have to check its presence in our list. Do we want the require command to "enable" extensions because a script should really be thought of as a whole, and if we can't do part of it then we shouldn't do any of it? If this is the case then surely a just-in-time parser is a really bad idea, as it will pass some scripts that a full-parse-then-execute implementation will fail. Do we want the require command to "enable" extensions because future extensions may have much further reaching structural consequences so if we don't understand the extension the can't guarantee that we can use any of the script correctly? Again this is yet another reason why just-in-time parser are really going to be a rubbish solution. But then a just-in-time parser solution is a great idea, dramatically saving on execution time on a busy server. Is it because we want to force scripts to have upto date require lists? I don't see how we can say that the require command "enables" the use of the extension for the current script, and that therefore the use on an extension without corresponding require command is an error, but then also say that it's alright to have a just-in-time implementation. On a related point about section 2.10.6 I'd say that implementations SHOULD "go so far as to ensure that execution is atomic (either all actions are executed or none are executed).", not "might even". I probably just need to hear the arguments. If someone could explain then that would be great. Something more than just an "IMO" please. Cheers. Nigel From owner-ietf-mta-filters Wed Dec 13 08:27:29 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03244 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:27:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (mauve.mrochek.com [209.55.107.55]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03233 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:27:27 -0800 (PST) From: ned.freed@innosoft.com Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01JXNCJA3ZCG000B3T@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Questions about the Require Command. In-reply-to: "Your message dated Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:11:58 +0000" <02cd01c0650e$a86ae860$73c8d781@nige> To: Nigel Swinson Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01JXNDTCCLVU000B3T@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <01JXMB2FZO6C0009PW@mauve.mrochek.com> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: > > I have to say I see nothing unclear here. If you don't have a require clause > > for a particular extension it isn't legal to use it. Requiring an unrelated > > extension doesn't change this. > Well I seem to have interpreted it correctly, so from that point of view I > guess it is clear, but I just don't understand why we want to operate this way. Well, I wasn't a strong proponent of this scheme, so I'm probably not the one to explain it. Nevertheless, it is my understanding that there was a strong desire to be able to determine authoritatively the extensions a given script uses based on a cursory examination of the initial part of the script. One of the reasons why this is useful is because in general it may not be possible to determine exactly what extensions a given script uses. For one thing, the names of the commands or paramters or whatever involved in an extension may not correlate with the extension name. And in fact it is possible that dependence on an extension isn't even derivable from an inspection of the script content. > It certainly makes things more complicated in our Sieve engines as we need to > have a list of available extensions that is added to by means of the require > command. Then whenever we find an extension we have to check its presence in > our list. Well, once there's a consensus that such a list should be part of all scripts, it is obvious that the only way to insure the presence of such a list in every script is to make things fail when it isn't present. We have way too much experience with optional declarative mechanisms to believe otherwise. And a declarative scheme like this that is used only occasionally is worthless. > Do we want the require command to "enable" extensions because a script should > really be thought of as a whole, and if we can't do part of it then we > shouldn't do any of it? If this is the case then surely a just-in-time parser > is a really bad idea, as it will pass some scripts that a > full-parse-then-execute implementation will fail. You're looking at it backwards. The use of require makes it possible to use just-in-time schemes. Without it things get messy -- you have scripts that succeed sometimes and fail other times, and that violates the least astonishment principle big time. > Do we want the require command to "enable" extensions because future > extensions may have much further reaching structural consequences so if we > don't understand the extension the can't guarantee that we can use any of the > script correctly? Again this is yet another reason why just-in-time parser are > really going to be a rubbish solution. Again, you're looking at it backwards. > But then a just-in-time parser solution is a great idea, dramatically saving > on execution time on a busy server. Sure. > Is it because we want to force scripts to have upto date require lists? We want this too. > I don't see how we can say that the require command "enables" the use of the > extension for the current script, and that therefore the use on an extension > without corresponding require command is an error, but then also say that it's > alright to have a just-in-time implementation. On a related point about > section 2.10.6 I'd say that implementations SHOULD "go so far as to ensure that > execution is atomic (either all actions are executed or none are executed).", > not "might even". Given that in many implementations some actions may be deferred or even passed off to an entirely different agent to implement, I don't think this is practical. Ned From owner-ietf-mta-filters Wed Dec 13 08:46:53 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04496 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:46:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from c000.snv.cp.net (c000-h007.c000.snv.cp.net [209.228.32.71]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA04492 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:46:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (cpmta 2084 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2000 08:49:02 -0800 Received: from commercial.ucs.ed.ac.uk (HELO nige) (129.215.200.115) by smtp.swinson.com (209.228.32.71) with SMTP; 13 Dec 2000 08:49:02 -0800 X-Sent: 13 Dec 2000 16:49:02 GMT Message-ID: <030901c06524$72a5cb30$73c8d781@nige> From: "Nigel Swinson" To: Cc: References: <01JXMB2FZO6C0009PW@mauve.mrochek.com> <01JXNDTCCLVU000B3T@mauve.mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Questions about the Require Command. Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:47:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns.secondary.com id IAA04493 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: So in essense we want to force wherever we can that the require list is up-to-date so that we can use just-in-time parsing. The way we force all scripts to keep their require commands up-to-date is by using the require command as an "enable extension" mechanism, so if the user wants to use an extension they have to "require" it. Those scripts that do not properly declare their extensions with the require command will possibly pass a just-in-time parse, but we should make every effort we can to ensure that this does not happen by warning the users in the gui or at run time. Ok I think I get it now. Thanks for your time. Nigel From owner-ietf-mta-filters Thu Dec 14 00:17:19 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA28109 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:17:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from libra.jftaiwan.com.tw (libra.jftaiwan.com.tw [203.74.116.5]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27751; Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:16:12 -0800 (PST) From: dave@china.com Received: from [204.181.201.213] by libra.jftaiwan.com.tw (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAA3B4B; Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:17:34 +0800 Received: from ns.ispinc.net by n213.OnlineToday.Com with ESMTP; Thu, 14 Dec 2000 01:17:15 -0800 Message-ID: <000048b43d14$00005825$0000065f@ns.ispinc.net> To: Undisclosed.Recipients@libra.jftaiwan.com.tw Subject: Don't miss this $700 Give Away 1631 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 01:17:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: The answer is.... 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Call 1-877-397-6731 and Mention Code: 122 Live Operators are standing by to take your order 24/7! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To UNSUBSCRIBE, Click Here From owner-ietf-mta-filters Sun Dec 17 04:48:13 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA09522 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 04:48:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from bjcmhl.int.cm.com ([202.108.40.38]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09449; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 04:47:37 -0800 (PST) From: will@cyprus.com Received: from n230.OnlineToday.Com_[204.181.201.230] [204.181.201.230] by bjcmhl.int.cm.com (SMTPD32-5.08) id A4E09B00D2; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:38:56 +0800 Received: from ns.opentec.com.mx by n230.OnlineToday.Com with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 05:42:14 -0800 Message-ID: <0000416401a4$00000137$00003ade@ns.opentec.com.mx> To: Subject: Dont miss this $700 Give away!! 15070 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 05:42:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Subject: Don't miss this $700 Give Away!! 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Call 1-877-397-6731 and Mention Code: 122 Live Operators are standing by to take your order 24/7! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To UNSUBSCRIBE, Click Here From owner-ietf-mta-filters Sun Dec 17 04:58:53 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA10483 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 04:58:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from job21st.com ([202.105.55.177]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10449; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 04:58:48 -0800 (PST) From: will@cyprus.com Received: from n230.OnlineToday.Com_[204.181.201.230] [204.181.201.230] by job21st.com (SMTPD32-6.05 EVAL) id A4F119701DA; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:43:29 +0800 Received: from ns.opentec.com.mx by n230.OnlineToday.Com with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 05:43:57 -0800 Message-ID: <0000416401a4$00000137$00003ade@ns.opentec.com.mx> To: Subject: Dont miss this $700 Give away!! 15070 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 05:43:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Subject: Don't miss this $700 Give Away!! Looking for that special gift for the person who has everything? The answer is.... Free Satellite TV System, Free Installation and Free Vacation! Imagine surfing thru 500 channels of News, Weather, Sports, Learning, Family, Movies, and Pay Per View Channels. 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Call 1-877-397-6731 and Mention Code: 122 Live Operators are standing by to take your order 24/7! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To UNSUBSCRIBE, Click Here From owner-ietf-mta-filters Mon Dec 18 03:25:17 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA11404 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:25:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from fw.tinysw.cz ([212.65.230.2]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA11398 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from 192.168.1.223 ([192.168.1.223]) by fw.tinysw.cz (WinRoute Pro 5.0 beta 1) for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:53:55 +0100 X-Envelope-To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-ID: <3A3DECC3.DFAE2E2B@tinysoftware.com> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:53:55 +0100 From: Jaroslav Snajdr X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: GUI editors for Sieve scripts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Hello, is anybody aware of any existing GUI editors for Sieve scripts? I'm just trying to develop a Web based one and I have serious problems to make it use all of Sieve's power and yet to remain simple and comprehensible. So, I'm just seeking for some inspiration... -jns From owner-ietf-mta-filters Mon Dec 18 03:39:58 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA12525 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:39:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from coltrane.dataconnection.com (smtp.dataconnection.com [192.91.191.4]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12517 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:39:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by smtp.datcon.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:42:10 -0000 Message-ID: From: Edward Hibbert To: "'Jaroslav Snajdr'" , ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: RE: GUI editors for Sieve scripts Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:40:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: You might like to look at Microsoft Exchange's Inbox Assistant (a.k.a. Outlook's Rules Wizard) for an approach to similar function to SIEVE. Regards, Edward Hibbert Internet Applications Group Data Connection Ltd Tel: +44 131 662 1212 Fax: +44 131 662 1345 Email: eh@dataconnection.com Web: http://www.dataconnection.com -----Original Message----- From: Jaroslav Snajdr [mailto:jarda@tinysoftware.com] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 10:54 AM To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: GUI editors for Sieve scripts Hello, is anybody aware of any existing GUI editors for Sieve scripts? I'm just trying to develop a Web based one and I have serious problems to make it use all of Sieve's power and yet to remain simple and comprehensible. So, I'm just seeking for some inspiration... -jns From owner-ietf-mta-filters Mon Dec 18 07:25:17 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03555 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:25:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.194]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03543 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:25:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from socrates.cyrusoft.com (tigris.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.211]) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21406; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:26:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:28:11 -0500 From: Cyrus Daboo To: Jaroslav Snajdr , ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: GUI editors for Sieve scripts Message-ID: <2632606.977135291@socrates.cyrusoft.com> In-Reply-To: <3A3DECC3.DFAE2E2B@tinysoftware.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.1.0a1 (Mac OS/PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --On Monday, December 18, 2000 11:53 AM +0100 Jaroslav Snajdr wrote: > Hello, > > is anybody aware of any existing GUI editors for Sieve scripts? I'm just > trying to develop a Web based one and I have serious problems to make it > use all of Sieve's power and yet to remain simple and comprehensible. > So, I'm just seeking for some inspiration... > > -jns > The new publically available v2.1a1 release of Mulberry features a GUI SIEVE script generator. It allows you to create script 'elements' which you can then put together into a script and write out to disk as a file. We'll be adding support for upload to the SIEVE script repository via CMU's sieved protocol at a later date. As regards being able to provide the full power of a SIEVE script via a GUI, we came to the conclusion that its just not feasible to do complex scripts in a GUI that's simple to use. Our approach was to provide an option to edit a 'raw' script element instead of use the GUI constructor. This seemed like the best trade-off. -- Cyrus Daboo From owner-ietf-mta-filters Thu Dec 21 07:37:43 2000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA01758 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 07:37:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from c000.snv.cp.net (c000-h002.c000.snv.cp.net [209.228.32.66]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA01749 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 07:37:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (cpmta 20796 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2000 07:40:30 -0800 Received: from commercial.ucs.ed.ac.uk (HELO nige) (129.215.200.115) by smtp.swinson.com (209.228.32.66) with SMTP; 21 Dec 2000 07:40:30 -0800 X-Sent: 21 Dec 2000 15:40:30 GMT Message-ID: <07e701c06b64$21302980$73c8d781@nige> From: "Nigel Swinson" To: Subject: multiline quoted strings Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 15:38:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07E4_01C06B64.20605660" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_07E4_01C06B64.20605660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2.4.2. Strings Non-printing characters such as tabs, CR and LF, and control = characters are permitted in strings. NUL ASCII 0) is not allowed in = strings. Does this mean that you are allowed to have quoted strings that span = more than one line (ie contain CRLF)? I think that the spec says that = you can, but it almost hints that you can't. (If you see what I mean... = ) While I'm here and on ths subject in the same section it says: Note that a hashed comment or whitespace may occur in between the = "text:" and the CRLF, but not within the string itself. Bracketed = comments are not allowed here. Does this mean that you can't have a /**/ after "text:" and before the = CRLF? It would seem a little strange to allow only one commenting style = here. I know that allowing only #ed comments makes it much easier to = parse, but then is it not just confusing to allow one commenting style = and not the other here? Why not just allow both or neither? =20 Cheers Nigel ------=_NextPart_000_07E4_01C06B64.20605660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2.4.2. Strings

<snip>

Non-printing characters such as tabs, CR and LF, and control = characters are=20 permitted in strings. NUL ASCII 0) is not allowed in=20 strings.

Does this mean that you are allowed to = have quoted=20 strings that span more than one line (ie contain CRLF)?  I think = that the=20 spec says that you can, but it almost hints that you can't.  (If = you see=20 what I mean... )
 
While I'm here and on ths subject in = the same=20 section it says:
Note that a hashed comment or = whitespace may=20 occur in between the "text:" and the CRLF, but not within the string = itself.=20 Bracketed comments are not allowed here.
Does this mean that you can't have a = /**/ after=20 "text:" and before the CRLF?  It would seem a little strange to = allow only=20 one commenting style here.  I know that allowing only #ed comments = makes it=20 much easier to parse, but then is it not just confusing to allow one = commenting=20 style and not the other here?  Why not just allow both or = neither? =20
 
Cheers
 
Nigel
 
------=_NextPart_000_07E4_01C06B64.20605660-- From owner-ietf-mta-filters Thu Dec 21 08:04:18 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04337 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:04:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from c000.snv.cp.net (c000-h002.c000.snv.cp.net [209.228.32.66]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA04333 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (cpmta 12778 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2000 08:07:09 -0800 Received: from commercial.ucs.ed.ac.uk (HELO nige) (129.215.200.115) by smtp.swinson.com (209.228.32.66) with SMTP; 21 Dec 2000 08:07:09 -0800 X-Sent: 21 Dec 2000 16:07:09 GMT Message-ID: <07f501c06b67$da334310$73c8d781@nige> From: "Nigel Swinson" To: References: <07e701c06b64$21302980$73c8d781@nige> Subject: Re: multiline quoted strings Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:05:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07F2_01C06B67.D9880EF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_07F2_01C06B67.D9880EF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I finally found my answer in the grammer section but given that we have = called the strings "quoted strings" and "multiline strings" I think it = should be made more explicit in section 2.4.2 that a "quoted string" may = be multiline. ? ------=_NextPart_000_07F2_01C06B67.D9880EF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I finally found my answer in the = grammer section=20 but given that we have called the strings "quoted strings" and = "multiline=20 strings" I think it should be made more explicit in section 2.4.2 that a = "quoted=20 string" may be multiline.
 
?
------=_NextPart_000_07F2_01C06B67.D9880EF0-- From owner-ietf-mta-filters Thu Dec 21 12:52:06 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23134 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:52:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.mirapoint.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mail.mirapoint.com [208.48.74.2]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23130 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:52:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from tim-bsd.mirapoint.com (tim-bsd.mirapoint.com [192.168.0.117]) by mail.mirapoint.com (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ABB50025; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:55:16 -0800 (PST) X-Spook: Ft. Knox cracking Watergate class struggle Area 51 ECHELON colonel To: "Nigel Swinson" Cc: Subject: Re: multiline quoted strings References: <07e701c06b64$21302980$73c8d781@nige> <07f501c06b67$da334310$73c8d781@nige> From: Tim Showalter Date: 21 Dec 2000 12:56:43 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Nigel Swinson"'s message of "Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:05:34 -0000" Message-ID: <7d3dfhpk6s.fsf@tim-bsd.mirapoint.com> Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) XEmacs/21.1 (Canyonlands) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: "Nigel Swinson" writes: > I finally found my answer in the grammer section but given that we > have called the strings "quoted strings" and "multiline strings" I > think it should be made more explicit in section 2.4.2 that a "quoted > string" may be multiline. I'll see what I can do. The document is past last call, but this is a minor editorial change. Tim From owner-ietf-mta-filters Thu Dec 21 13:33:43 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25216 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:33:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (mauve.mrochek.com [209.55.107.55]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25211 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:33:42 -0800 (PST) From: ned.freed@innosoft.com Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01JXYO6KFLXC00008H@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: multiline quoted strings In-reply-to: "Your message dated Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:56:43 -0800" <7d3dfhpk6s.fsf@tim-bsd.mirapoint.com> To: Tim Showalter Cc: Nigel Swinson , ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01JXYUVDJKLC00008H@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <07e701c06b64$21302980$73c8d781@nige> <07f501c06b67$da334310$73c8d781@nige> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: > "Nigel Swinson" writes: > > I finally found my answer in the grammer section but given that we > > have called the strings "quoted strings" and "multiline strings" I > > think it should be made more explicit in section 2.4.2 that a "quoted > > string" may be multiline. > I'll see what I can do. The document is past last call, but this is a > minor editorial change. I see no problem with doing this during the final 48 hour review prior to RFC publication. So if you make the change as author at that point as AD I'll approve it. Ned From owner-ietf-mta-filters Thu Dec 21 14:32:41 2000 Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28985 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:32:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.sassy.com.sg ([203.127.18.98]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA28819; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:32:03 -0800 (PST) From: dave@china.com Received: from 1Cust85.tnt64.dfw5.da.uu.net_[63.38.184.85] ([63.38.184.85]) by mail.sassy.com.sg (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) with SMTP id 482569BC.00255B89; Mon, 21 Dec 1970 14:48:08 +0800 Received: from nova.sylvest.co by 1Cust85.tnt64.dfw5.da.uu.net with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:50:30 -0800 Message-ID: <0000731127b7$00003bc8$00006849@nova.sylvest.co> To: Subject: Free Satellite System and Free Installation 26697 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:50:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Reply-To: dave@china.com Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe:
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Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA25409 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:30:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.ait.com.cn ([211.96.97.16]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25386; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:30:49 -0800 (PST) From: dave@china.com Received: from 3Cust198.tnt12.dfw5.da.uu.net_[63.44.238.198] [63.44.238.198] by www.ait.com.cn (SMTPD32-6.04 EVAL) id A0F017200C4; Sat, 23 Dec 2000 09:33:36 +0800 Received: from ns0.emc.com by 3Cust198.tnt12.dfw5.da.uu.net with ESMTP; Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:32:45 -0800 Message-ID: <000024f126b7$000047b1$00001161@ns0.emc.com> To: Subject: Free Satellite System and Free Installation 4449 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:32:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Reply-To: dave@china.com Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: FREE SATELLITE T.V. SYSTEM

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Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28985 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:32:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.sassy.com.sg ([203.127.18.98]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA28819; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:32:03 -0800 (PST) From: dave@china.com Received: from 1Cust85.tnt64.dfw5.da.uu.net_[63.38.184.85] ([63.38.184.85]) by mail.sassy.com.sg (Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) with SMTP id 482569BC.00255B89; Mon, 21 Dec 1970 14:48:08 +0800 Received: from nova.sylvest.co by 1Cust85.tnt64.dfw5.da.uu.net with ESMTP; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:50:30 -0800 Message-ID: <0000731127b7$00003bc8$00006849@nova.sylvest.co> To: Subject: Free Satellite System and Free Installation 26697 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:50:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Reply-To: dave@china.com Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe:
Watch over 500 channels of Digital Broadcast quality television on your ow= n FREE satellite television system. These new Digital satellite
systems use the new 20 inch satellite dish antenna.

For a limited time we'll give you this top of the line Digital Satellite S= ystem for FREE! We'll even include Free installation and 3 FREE months of = all the movie channels!

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CD sound and infrared remote. Normal cost for all these items is over $500= but we're giving it away for FREE!

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want to receive. Satellite television offers over 500 channels of all
digital broadcast video quality, movies, sports, specials, network , cable= s
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For your Free Satellite System call 888-607-9617 24 hours a day.


Authorized DishNetwork dealer









FREE SATELLITE= T.V. SYSTEM

Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25216 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:33:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (mauve.mrochek.com [209.55.107.55]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25211 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:33:42 -0800 (PST) From: ned.freed@innosoft.com Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01JXYO6KFLXC00008H@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: multiline quoted strings In-reply-to: "Your message dated Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:56:43 -0800" <7d3dfhpk6s.fsf@tim-bsd.mirapoint.com> To: Tim Showalter Cc: Nigel Swinson , ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01JXYUVDJKLC00008H@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <07e701c06b64$21302980$73c8d781@nige> <07f501c06b67$da334310$73c8d781@nige> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: > "Nigel Swinson" writes: > > I finally found my answer in the grammer section but given that we > > have called the strings "quoted strings" and "multiline strings" I > > think it should be made more explicit in section 2.4.2 that a "quoted > > string" may be multiline. > I'll see what I can do. The document is past last call, but this is a > minor editorial change. I see no problem with doing this during the final 48 hour review prior to RFC publication. So if you make the change as author at that point as AD I'll approve it. Ned Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23134 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:52:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.mirapoint.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mail.mirapoint.com [208.48.74.2]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23130 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:52:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from tim-bsd.mirapoint.com (tim-bsd.mirapoint.com [192.168.0.117]) by mail.mirapoint.com (Mirapoint) with SMTP id ABB50025; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:55:16 -0800 (PST) X-Spook: Ft. Knox cracking Watergate class struggle Area 51 ECHELON colonel To: "Nigel Swinson" Cc: Subject: Re: multiline quoted strings References: <07e701c06b64$21302980$73c8d781@nige> <07f501c06b67$da334310$73c8d781@nige> From: Tim Showalter Date: 21 Dec 2000 12:56:43 -0800 In-Reply-To: "Nigel Swinson"'s message of "Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:05:34 -0000" Message-ID: <7d3dfhpk6s.fsf@tim-bsd.mirapoint.com> Lines: 11 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) XEmacs/21.1 (Canyonlands) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: "Nigel Swinson" writes: > I finally found my answer in the grammer section but given that we > have called the strings "quoted strings" and "multiline strings" I > think it should be made more explicit in section 2.4.2 that a "quoted > string" may be multiline. I'll see what I can do. The document is past last call, but this is a minor editorial change. Tim Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04337 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:04:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from c000.snv.cp.net (c000-h002.c000.snv.cp.net [209.228.32.66]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA04333 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (cpmta 12778 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2000 08:07:09 -0800 Received: from commercial.ucs.ed.ac.uk (HELO nige) (129.215.200.115) by smtp.swinson.com (209.228.32.66) with SMTP; 21 Dec 2000 08:07:09 -0800 X-Sent: 21 Dec 2000 16:07:09 GMT Message-ID: <07f501c06b67$da334310$73c8d781@nige> From: "Nigel Swinson" To: References: <07e701c06b64$21302980$73c8d781@nige> Subject: Re: multiline quoted strings Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 16:05:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07F2_01C06B67.D9880EF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_07F2_01C06B67.D9880EF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I finally found my answer in the grammer section but given that we have = called the strings "quoted strings" and "multiline strings" I think it = should be made more explicit in section 2.4.2 that a "quoted string" may = be multiline. ? ------=_NextPart_000_07F2_01C06B67.D9880EF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I finally found my answer in the = grammer section=20 but given that we have called the strings "quoted strings" and = "multiline=20 strings" I think it should be made more explicit in section 2.4.2 that a = "quoted=20 string" may be multiline.
 
?
------=_NextPart_000_07F2_01C06B67.D9880EF0-- Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA01758 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 07:37:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from c000.snv.cp.net (c000-h002.c000.snv.cp.net [209.228.32.66]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA01749 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2000 07:37:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (cpmta 20796 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2000 07:40:30 -0800 Received: from commercial.ucs.ed.ac.uk (HELO nige) (129.215.200.115) by smtp.swinson.com (209.228.32.66) with SMTP; 21 Dec 2000 07:40:30 -0800 X-Sent: 21 Dec 2000 15:40:30 GMT Message-ID: <07e701c06b64$21302980$73c8d781@nige> From: "Nigel Swinson" To: Subject: multiline quoted strings Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 15:38:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07E4_01C06B64.20605660" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_07E4_01C06B64.20605660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2.4.2. Strings Non-printing characters such as tabs, CR and LF, and control = characters are permitted in strings. NUL ASCII 0) is not allowed in = strings. Does this mean that you are allowed to have quoted strings that span = more than one line (ie contain CRLF)? I think that the spec says that = you can, but it almost hints that you can't. (If you see what I mean... = ) While I'm here and on ths subject in the same section it says: Note that a hashed comment or whitespace may occur in between the = "text:" and the CRLF, but not within the string itself. Bracketed = comments are not allowed here. Does this mean that you can't have a /**/ after "text:" and before the = CRLF? It would seem a little strange to allow only one commenting style = here. I know that allowing only #ed comments makes it much easier to = parse, but then is it not just confusing to allow one commenting style = and not the other here? Why not just allow both or neither? =20 Cheers Nigel ------=_NextPart_000_07E4_01C06B64.20605660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2.4.2. Strings

<snip>

Non-printing characters such as tabs, CR and LF, and control = characters are=20 permitted in strings. NUL ASCII 0) is not allowed in=20 strings.

Does this mean that you are allowed to = have quoted=20 strings that span more than one line (ie contain CRLF)?  I think = that the=20 spec says that you can, but it almost hints that you can't.  (If = you see=20 what I mean... )
 
While I'm here and on ths subject in = the same=20 section it says:
Note that a hashed comment or = whitespace may=20 occur in between the "text:" and the CRLF, but not within the string = itself.=20 Bracketed comments are not allowed here.
Does this mean that you can't have a = /**/ after=20 "text:" and before the CRLF?  It would seem a little strange to = allow only=20 one commenting style here.  I know that allowing only #ed comments = makes it=20 much easier to parse, but then is it not just confusing to allow one = commenting=20 style and not the other here?  Why not just allow both or = neither? =20
 
Cheers
 
Nigel
 
------=_NextPart_000_07E4_01C06B64.20605660-- Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03555 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:25:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.194]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03543 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:25:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from socrates.cyrusoft.com (tigris.cyrusoft.com [206.31.218.211]) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21406; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:26:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:28:11 -0500 From: Cyrus Daboo To: Jaroslav Snajdr , ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: Re: GUI editors for Sieve scripts Message-ID: <2632606.977135291@socrates.cyrusoft.com> In-Reply-To: <3A3DECC3.DFAE2E2B@tinysoftware.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.1.0a1 (Mac OS/PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --On Monday, December 18, 2000 11:53 AM +0100 Jaroslav Snajdr wrote: > Hello, > > is anybody aware of any existing GUI editors for Sieve scripts? I'm just > trying to develop a Web based one and I have serious problems to make it > use all of Sieve's power and yet to remain simple and comprehensible. > So, I'm just seeking for some inspiration... > > -jns > The new publically available v2.1a1 release of Mulberry features a GUI SIEVE script generator. It allows you to create script 'elements' which you can then put together into a script and write out to disk as a file. We'll be adding support for upload to the SIEVE script repository via CMU's sieved protocol at a later date. As regards being able to provide the full power of a SIEVE script via a GUI, we came to the conclusion that its just not feasible to do complex scripts in a GUI that's simple to use. Our approach was to provide an option to edit a 'raw' script element instead of use the GUI constructor. This seemed like the best trade-off. -- Cyrus Daboo Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA12525 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:39:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from coltrane.dataconnection.com (smtp.dataconnection.com [192.91.191.4]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12517 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:39:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by smtp.datcon.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:42:10 -0000 Message-ID: From: Edward Hibbert To: "'Jaroslav Snajdr'" , ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: RE: GUI editors for Sieve scripts Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:40:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: You might like to look at Microsoft Exchange's Inbox Assistant (a.k.a. Outlook's Rules Wizard) for an approach to similar function to SIEVE. Regards, Edward Hibbert Internet Applications Group Data Connection Ltd Tel: +44 131 662 1212 Fax: +44 131 662 1345 Email: eh@dataconnection.com Web: http://www.dataconnection.com -----Original Message----- From: Jaroslav Snajdr [mailto:jarda@tinysoftware.com] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 10:54 AM To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: GUI editors for Sieve scripts Hello, is anybody aware of any existing GUI editors for Sieve scripts? I'm just trying to develop a Web based one and I have serious problems to make it use all of Sieve's power and yet to remain simple and comprehensible. So, I'm just seeking for some inspiration... -jns Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA11404 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:25:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from fw.tinysw.cz ([212.65.230.2]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA11398 for ; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from 192.168.1.223 ([192.168.1.223]) by fw.tinysw.cz (WinRoute Pro 5.0 beta 1) for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:53:55 +0100 X-Envelope-To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-ID: <3A3DECC3.DFAE2E2B@tinysoftware.com> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:53:55 +0100 From: Jaroslav Snajdr X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Subject: GUI editors for Sieve scripts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Hello, is anybody aware of any existing GUI editors for Sieve scripts? I'm just trying to develop a Web based one and I have serious problems to make it use all of Sieve's power and yet to remain simple and comprehensible. So, I'm just seeking for some inspiration... -jns Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA10483 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 04:58:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from job21st.com ([202.105.55.177]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10449; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 04:58:48 -0800 (PST) From: will@cyprus.com Received: from n230.OnlineToday.Com_[204.181.201.230] [204.181.201.230] by job21st.com (SMTPD32-6.05 EVAL) id A4F119701DA; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:43:29 +0800 Received: from ns.opentec.com.mx by n230.OnlineToday.Com with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Dec 2000 05:43:57 -0800 Message-ID: <0000416401a4$00000137$00003ade@ns.opentec.com.mx> To: Subject: Dont miss this $700 Give away!! 15070 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 05:43:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Subject: Don't miss this $700 Give Away!! 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Looking for that special gift for the person who has everything? Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04496 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:46:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from c000.snv.cp.net (c000-h007.c000.snv.cp.net [209.228.32.71]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA04492 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:46:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (cpmta 2084 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2000 08:49:02 -0800 Received: from commercial.ucs.ed.ac.uk (HELO nige) (129.215.200.115) by smtp.swinson.com (209.228.32.71) with SMTP; 13 Dec 2000 08:49:02 -0800 X-Sent: 13 Dec 2000 16:49:02 GMT Message-ID: <030901c06524$72a5cb30$73c8d781@nige> From: "Nigel Swinson" To: Cc: References: <01JXMB2FZO6C0009PW@mauve.mrochek.com> <01JXNDTCCLVU000B3T@mauve.mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Questions about the Require Command. Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:47:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns.secondary.com id IAA04493 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: So in essense we want to force wherever we can that the require list is up-to-date so that we can use just-in-time parsing. The way we force all scripts to keep their require commands up-to-date is by using the require command as an "enable extension" mechanism, so if the user wants to use an extension they have to "require" it. Those scripts that do not properly declare their extensions with the require command will possibly pass a just-in-time parse, but we should make every effort we can to ensure that this does not happen by warning the users in the gui or at run time. Ok I think I get it now. Thanks for your time. Nigel Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03244 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:27:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (mauve.mrochek.com [209.55.107.55]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03233 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:27:27 -0800 (PST) From: ned.freed@innosoft.com Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01JXNCJA3ZCG000B3T@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Questions about the Require Command. In-reply-to: "Your message dated Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:11:58 +0000" <02cd01c0650e$a86ae860$73c8d781@nige> To: Nigel Swinson Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01JXNDTCCLVU000B3T@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <01JXMB2FZO6C0009PW@mauve.mrochek.com> Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: > > I have to say I see nothing unclear here. If you don't have a require clause > > for a particular extension it isn't legal to use it. Requiring an unrelated > > extension doesn't change this. > Well I seem to have interpreted it correctly, so from that point of view I > guess it is clear, but I just don't understand why we want to operate this way. Well, I wasn't a strong proponent of this scheme, so I'm probably not the one to explain it. Nevertheless, it is my understanding that there was a strong desire to be able to determine authoritatively the extensions a given script uses based on a cursory examination of the initial part of the script. One of the reasons why this is useful is because in general it may not be possible to determine exactly what extensions a given script uses. For one thing, the names of the commands or paramters or whatever involved in an extension may not correlate with the extension name. And in fact it is possible that dependence on an extension isn't even derivable from an inspection of the script content. > It certainly makes things more complicated in our Sieve engines as we need to > have a list of available extensions that is added to by means of the require > command. Then whenever we find an extension we have to check its presence in > our list. Well, once there's a consensus that such a list should be part of all scripts, it is obvious that the only way to insure the presence of such a list in every script is to make things fail when it isn't present. We have way too much experience with optional declarative mechanisms to believe otherwise. And a declarative scheme like this that is used only occasionally is worthless. > Do we want the require command to "enable" extensions because a script should > really be thought of as a whole, and if we can't do part of it then we > shouldn't do any of it? If this is the case then surely a just-in-time parser > is a really bad idea, as it will pass some scripts that a > full-parse-then-execute implementation will fail. You're looking at it backwards. The use of require makes it possible to use just-in-time schemes. Without it things get messy -- you have scripts that succeed sometimes and fail other times, and that violates the least astonishment principle big time. > Do we want the require command to "enable" extensions because future > extensions may have much further reaching structural consequences so if we > don't understand the extension the can't guarantee that we can use any of the > script correctly? Again this is yet another reason why just-in-time parser are > really going to be a rubbish solution. Again, you're looking at it backwards. > But then a just-in-time parser solution is a great idea, dramatically saving > on execution time on a busy server. Sure. > Is it because we want to force scripts to have upto date require lists? We want this too. > I don't see how we can say that the require command "enables" the use of the > extension for the current script, and that therefore the use on an extension > without corresponding require command is an error, but then also say that it's > alright to have a just-in-time implementation. On a related point about > section 2.10.6 I'd say that implementations SHOULD "go so far as to ensure that > execution is atomic (either all actions are executed or none are executed).", > not "might even". Given that in many implementations some actions may be deferred or even passed off to an entirely different agent to implement, I don't think this is practical. Ned Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA19637 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 06:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from c000.snv.cp.net (c000-h008.c000.snv.cp.net [209.228.32.72]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA19628 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 06:10:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (cpmta 1100 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2000 06:13:03 -0800 Received: from commercial.ucs.ed.ac.uk (HELO nige) (129.215.200.115) by smtp.swinson.com (209.228.32.72) with SMTP; 13 Dec 2000 06:13:03 -0800 X-Sent: 13 Dec 2000 14:13:03 GMT Message-ID: <02cd01c0650e$a86ae860$73c8d781@nige> From: "Nigel Swinson" To: References: <01JXMB2FZO6C0009PW@mauve.mrochek.com> Subject: Re: Questions about the Require Command. Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:11:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by ns.secondary.com id GAA19631 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: > > i.e. take the following script. > > require "regex" > > > if (header :regex "Cc" > > "Some regular expression or other") { > > fileinto "FolderName"; > > } > > > If we support both fileinto and regex are we meant to produce an error here? > > Could someone clear this up for me? I'd suggest a re-wording of the section > > to make the intention clearer/more spelt out. > > I have to say I see nothing unclear here. If you don't have a require clause > for a particular extension it isn't legal to use it. Requiring an unrelated > extension doesn't change this. Well I seem to have interpreted it correctly, so from that point of view I guess it is clear, but I just don't understand why we want to operate this way. Why should it only be legal to use an extension if it was previously declared with a require command? What does this gain us? I agree that it is naughty to use a command without "require"-ing it beforehand. GUIs/users should make every effort to make sure this list is upto date. But it seems a bit harsh to fail a script when it uses an extension that we know about, where it wasn't "require"d at the top of the script. It certainly makes things more complicated in our Sieve engines as we need to have a list of available extensions that is added to by means of the require command. Then whenever we find an extension we have to check its presence in our list. Do we want the require command to "enable" extensions because a script should really be thought of as a whole, and if we can't do part of it then we shouldn't do any of it? If this is the case then surely a just-in-time parser is a really bad idea, as it will pass some scripts that a full-parse-then-execute implementation will fail. Do we want the require command to "enable" extensions because future extensions may have much further reaching structural consequences so if we don't understand the extension the can't guarantee that we can use any of the script correctly? Again this is yet another reason why just-in-time parser are really going to be a rubbish solution. But then a just-in-time parser solution is a great idea, dramatically saving on execution time on a busy server. Is it because we want to force scripts to have upto date require lists? I don't see how we can say that the require command "enables" the use of the extension for the current script, and that therefore the use on an extension without corresponding require command is an error, but then also say that it's alright to have a just-in-time implementation. On a related point about section 2.10.6 I'd say that implementations SHOULD "go so far as to ensure that execution is atomic (either all actions are executed or none are executed).", not "might even". I probably just need to hear the arguments. If someone could explain then that would be great. Something more than just an "IMO" please. Cheers. Nigel Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17573 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:58:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mauve.mrochek.com (mauve.mrochek.com [209.55.107.55]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17569 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:58:02 -0800 (PST) From: ned.freed@innosoft.com Received: from mauve.mrochek.com by mauve.mrochek.com (PMDF V6.1-1 #35243) id <01JXM80OZRUO0009PW@mauve.mrochek.com> for ietf-mta-filters@imc.org; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 14:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:15:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Questions about the Require Command. In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:58:22 +0000" <025d01c06454$5b2166c0$73c8d781@nige> To: Nigel Swinson Cc: ietf-mta-filters@imc.org Message-id: <01JXMB2FZO6C0009PW@mauve.mrochek.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: > 2 Questions. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 2.10.5 Extensions and Optional Features > > If an extension is not enabled with "require", implementations MUST > treat it as if they did not support it at all. > By this do we mean that if a script uses a fileinto action, but didn't > declare it with require, then we should produce an "unsupported extension" > error when we reach the fileinto token even if we support fileinto? The important thing is that an error is produced. I don't think it is critical that the specific error be "unsupported extension". After all, we don't even have a precise error return model in this work. > i.e. take the following script. > require "regex" > if (header :regex "Cc" > "Some regular expression or other") { > fileinto "FolderName"; > } > If we support both fileinto and regex are we meant to produce an error here? I believe you should produce an error in this case. > I could see how you could interpret section 2.10.5 this way but surely if we > are being conservative with what we produce, and liberal with what we receive > we should accept this script and accept the fileinto command? IMO this isn't a good place to apply this principle. > Could someone clear this up for me? I'd suggest a re-wording of the section > to make the intention clearer/more spelt out. I have to say I see nothing unclear here. If you don't have a require clause for a particular extension it isn't legal to use it. Requiring an unrelated extension doesn't change this. > 3.2 Control Structure Require > > The require command, if present, MUST be used before anything other > than a require can be used. An error occurs if a require appears > after a command other than require. > Could we improve the wording here too? It took me quite a while to get my > head round what you were getting at (even though I could have guessed). I am > assuming that this means that you may only have comments, whitespace and > require commands before a require command. It could read: > Require commands, if present, MUST occur before all other types of command > in the script. An error occurs if a require appears after a command other than > require. I have no problem with this. > So therefore this would be ok: > /* This is the main require extension command that declares the extensions that we are about to use */ > require ["regex","fileinto"] > # This is an auxilliary require command added by a user. > require "x_some_other_extentsion" > if (header :regex "Cc" > "Some regular expression or other") { > fileinto "FolderName"; > } > but not > require "regex" > if (header :regex "Cc" > "Some regular expression or other") { > keep; > stop; > } > require "fileinto" Yes, exactly. Ned Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA24055 for ietf-mta-filters-bks; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 07:57:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from c000.snv.cp.net (c000-h001.c000.snv.cp.net [209.228.32.65]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA24048 for ; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 07:57:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (cpmta 19519 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2000 07:59:26 -0800 Received: from commercial.ucs.ed.ac.uk (HELO nige) (129.215.200.115) by smtp.swinson.com (209.228.32.65) with SMTP; 12 Dec 2000 07:59:26 -0800 X-Sent: 12 Dec 2000 15:59:26 GMT Message-ID: <025d01c06454$5b2166c0$73c8d781@nige> From: "Nigel Swinson" To: Subject: Questions about the Require Command. Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:58:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_025A_01C06454.5A60D5E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-ietf-mta-filters@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_025A_01C06454.5A60D5E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2 Questions. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- 2.10.5 Extensions and Optional Features If an extension is not enabled with "require", implementations MUST treat it as if they did not support it at all. By this do we mean that if a script uses a fileinto action, but didn't = declare it with require, then we should produce an "unsupported = extension" error when we reach the fileinto token even if we support = fileinto? i.e. take the following script. require "regex" if (header :regex "Cc"=20 "Some regular expression or other") { fileinto "FolderName"; } If we support both fileinto and regex are we meant to produce an error = here? I could see how you could interpret section 2.10.5 this way but = surely if we are being conservative with what we produce, and liberal = with what we receive we should accept this script and accept the = fileinto command? Could someone clear this up for me? I'd suggest a re-wording of the = section to make the intention clearer/more spelt out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- 3.2 Control Structure Require The require command, if present, MUST be used before anything other than a require can be used. An error occurs if a require appears after a command other than require. Could we improve the wording here too? It took me quite a while to get = my head round what you were getting at (even though I could have = guessed). I am assuming that this means that you may only have = comments, whitespace and require commands before a require command. It = could read: Require commands, if present, MUST occur before all other types of = command in the script. An error occurs if a require appears after a = command other than require. So therefore this would be ok: /* This is the main require extension command that declares the = extensions that we are about to use */ require ["regex","fileinto"] # This is an auxilliary require command added by a user. require "x_some_other_extentsion" if (header :regex "Cc"=20 "Some regular expression or other") { fileinto "FolderName"; } but not require "regex" if (header :regex "Cc"=20 "Some regular expression or other") { keep; stop; } require "fileinto" -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Could I also just say that THE ONLY avenue though which this mail = account is getting any junk mail at all, is through being on this = mailing list. Kinda ironic isn't it? Cheers, Nigel ------=_NextPart_000_025A_01C06454.5A60D5E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2 Questions.
2.10.5 Extensions and Optional=20 Features
 
<snip>
 
If an extension is not enabled with = "require",=20 implementations MUST
treat it as if they did not support it at=20 all.
By this do we mean that if a script = uses a fileinto=20 action, but didn't declare it with require, then we should produce an=20 "unsupported extension" error when we reach the fileinto token even if = we=20 support fileinto?
 
i.e. take the following = script.
require "regex"
 
if (header :regex "Cc" =
    "Some regular = expression or=20 other") {
    fileinto=20 "FolderName";
}
If we support both fileinto and regex = are we meant=20 to produce an error here?  I could see how you could interpret = section=20 2.10.5 this way but surely if we are being conservative with what we = produce,=20 and liberal with what we receive we should accept this script and accept = the=20 fileinto command?
 
Could someone clear this up for = me?  I'd=20 suggest a re-wording of the section to make the intention clearer/more = spelt=20 out.
 
3.2 Control Structure = Require
 
<snip>

The require command, if present, MUST be used before = anything=20 other
than a require can be used. An error occurs if a require=20 appears
after a command other than require.

Could we improve the wording here too?  It took = me quite a=20 while to get my head round what you were getting at (even though I could = have=20 guessed).  I am assuming that this means that you may only have = comments,=20 whitespace and require commands before a require command.  It = could=20 read:

Require commands, if present, MUST occur before = all other=20 types of command in the script.  An error occurs if a require = appears=20 after a command other than require.

So therefore this would be ok:

/* This is the main require extension command that = declares=20 the extensions that we are about to use */
require ["regex","fileinto"]
 
# This is an auxilliary require command added by a = user.
require "x_some_other_extentsion"
 
if (header :regex "Cc"
    "Some regular expression or = other")=20 {
    fileinto = "FolderName";
}
but not
require = "regex"
if (header :regex "Cc"
    "Some regular = expression or=20 other") {
    keep;
    stop;
}
 
require=20 "fileinto"

Could I also just say that THE ONLY avenue though = which this=20 mail account is getting any junk mail at all, is through being on this = mailing=20 list.  Kinda ironic isn't it?

Cheers,

Nigel

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