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The participants of the auction sale will have a uniquea U= S attack aircraft in a friendly fire incident in Iraq
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         Privacy Notice © 1995-2008, Amazon.com,    Inc. or its affiliates.
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It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the list (for example, mailman-request@ietf.org) containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to you with instructions. If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner@ietf.org. Thanks! http://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/simple/simple-archive%40megatron.ietf.org From mailman-bounces@core3.amsl.com Fri Feb 1 06:22:59 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FC3C294970 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 06:16:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cJOZN7BvvVwd for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 06:16:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3129F2A2FFB for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 05:48:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@ietf.org To: simple-archive@megatron.ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes Message-ID: Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:06:25 -0800 Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: mailman@core3.amsl.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 List-Id: X-List-Administrivia: yes Sender: mailman-bounces@core3.amsl.com Errors-To: mailman-bounces@core3.amsl.com This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the list (for example, mailman-request@ietf.org) containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to you with instructions. If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner@ietf.org. Thanks! http://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/simple/simple-archive%40megatron.ietf.org From shegg@fcu.edu.tw Fri Feb 1 09:42:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1EF3A687D for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:42:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 53.824 X-Spam-Level: ***************************************************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=53.824 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_EQ_TR=0.935, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 0.9 HELO_EQ_TR HELO_EQ_TR * 1.5 FH_RELAY_NODNS We could not determine your Reverse DNS * 1.4 HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (DHCP) * 0.0 STOX_REPLY_TYPE STOX_REPLY_TYPE * 0.0 NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP URI: Uses a dotted-decimal IP address in URL * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 8 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 20 URIBL_BLACK Contains an URL listed in the URIBL blacklist * [URIs: 24.158.202.186] * 10 URIBL_WS_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the WS SURBL blocklist * [URIs: 24.158.202.186] * 10 URIBL_JP_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the JP SURBL blocklist * [URIs: 24.158.202.186] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [88.226.1.161 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 3.0 RCVD_IN_XBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus XBL * 0.1 RDNS_NONE Delivered to trusted network by a host with no rDNS Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L1KhQ6sG6XkM for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:42:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from dsl88-226-417.ttnet.net.tr (unknown [88.226.1.161]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D0B13A6950 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:41:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 9038 invoked from network); Fri, 1 Feb 2008 19:43:11 +0200 Received: from unknown (HELO xguij) (150.149.104.110) by dsl88-226-417.ttnet.net.tr with SMTP; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 19:43:11 +0200 Message-ID: <001101c864f9$e9fe98b0$6e689596@xguij> From: To: Subject: ***SPAM*** 53.824 (5) Last Night Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 19:43:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Magic Power Of Love http://24.158.202.186/ From carlepiderma891134@yahoo.com Fri Feb 1 09:52:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B17F33A697F; 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Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:52:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from e180179149.adsl.alicedsl.de (e180179149.adsl.alicedsl.de [85.180.179.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 5AB7B3A681A; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:52:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from 7.132.15.100 by 85.180.179.149; Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:46:08 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Gus Murray" Reply-To: "Gus Murray" To: sherri.hilton@ietf.org Subject: ***SPAM*** 246.425 (5) January promo on w4tches Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:54:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Winter is hitting and New Year is coming. Do you need perfect gift? 0rder high qual1ty repl1ca of w4tches, purses & bags from 2008! http://www.ghetsyye.com/ From nelis-esackers@alkhalaf.com Fri Feb 1 10:11:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8547728C1C9 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:11:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 80.731 X-Spam-Level: **************************************************************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=80.731 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HTML_MESSAGE=1, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 0.8 FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D Host starts with d-d-d-d * 1.1 HELO_EQ_DSL HELO_EQ_DSL * 0.9 FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB Host is d-d-d-d * 4.3 HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (HCC) * 4.4 HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2 Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (IP addr * 2) * 1.6 FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D Helo is d-d-d-d * 1.9 TVD_RCVD_IP TVD_RCVD_IP * 0.6 J_CHICKENPOX_13 BODY: 1alpha-pock-3alpha * 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 8 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 4 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 20 URIBL_BLACK Contains an URL listed in the URIBL blacklist * [URIs: mnkorseg.com] * 10 URIBL_WS_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the WS SURBL blocklist * [URIs: mnkorseg.com] * 10 URIBL_JP_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the JP SURBL blocklist * [URIs: mnkorseg.com] * 10 URIBL_OB_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the OB SURBL blocklist * [URIs: mnkorseg.com] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL RBL: SORBS: sent directly from dynamic IP address * [201.223.221.170 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [201.223.221.170 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 2.0 FM_DDDD_TIMES_2 Dual helo + host eq d_d_d_d * 0.1 RDNS_DYNAMIC Delivered to trusted network by host with * dynamic-looking rDNS * 2.8 DOS_OE_TO_MX Delivered direct to MX with OE headers Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x+2oeQu2nYCm for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:11:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from 4-209-223-201.adsl.terra.cl (170-221-223-201.adsl.terra.cl [201.223.221.170]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1265C3A68C6 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:11:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000d01c864fe$1b531680$04d1dfc9@leonardorcg098> From: "nelis Hayre" To: simple-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: ***SPAM*** 80.731 (5) Always wondered how others could have some big d1cks? Here's the answer. Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:13:12 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C864E4.F605DE80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 ----------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C864E4.F605DE80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You can be assured of success by clicking here. ----------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C864E4.F605DE80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You can be assured of success by = clicking=20 here. ----------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C864E4.F605DE80-- From ElizabethcurieOconnell@ftworthfc.com Fri Feb 1 10:32:56 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F8A3A6948; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:32:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 17.024 X-Spam-Level: ***************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=17.024 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.116, INVALID_MSGID=1.9, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, SARE_MLH_Stock1=0.87, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 0.9 SARE_MLH_Stock1 Subject mentions stock or stock related words * 0.0 STOX_REPLY_TYPE STOX_REPLY_TYPE * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 4 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [77.134.49.254 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 1.5 DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX RBL: Envelope sender in * bogusmx.rfc-ignorant.org * 1.9 INVALID_MSGID Message-Id is not valid, according to RFC 2822 * 3.1 FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK Forged mail pretending to be from MS Outlook * 2.8 DOS_OE_TO_MX Delivered direct to MX with OE headers Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xYVaPmihBIqn; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:32:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from pc154.esclspain.local (unknown [84.20.25.218]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E6743A68AE; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:32:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: 86ec901c864ff$ef378390$3afe12ac@PC154 From: "Carol Haas" To: Subject: ***SPAM*** 17.024 (5) Superstar stock report Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 19:25:59 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 No Looking back on G&S minerals Symbol-GSML Up 4 consecutive days for over 40% in profits and record volume Read the PR, the good news keeps coming. Add GSML to your Radar and watch it like a hawk. This company is going to $3. even if it hits half of projected forcast it would be a phenomenal 1000% profit. No other stock can deliver that in times like this Get in on GSML G&S minerals INC. 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http://lulusyap.com/ From simple-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 4 11:03:48 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89A353A7136; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:03:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AKRcR0tDcGE3; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:03:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D10853A7060; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:00:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@ietf.org Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id CD7CA3A7003; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:00:01 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: <20080204190001.CD7CA3A7003@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:00:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: [Simple] I-D Action:draft-ietf-simple-chat-02.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : Multi-party Instant Message (IM) Sessions Using the Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP) Author(s) : A. Niemi, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-simple-chat-02.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2008-02-04 The Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP) defines a mechanism for sending instant messages within a peer-to-peer session, negotiated using the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) and the Session Description Protocol (SDP). This document defines the necessary tools for establishing multi-party instant messaging (IM) sessions, or chat rooms, with MSRP. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-chat-02.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-simple-chat-02.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-chat-02.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-02-04105457.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-chat-02.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-simple-chat-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-02-04105457.I-D\@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --NextPart-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 4 11:04:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46CA83A70A8; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:04:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.67 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.67 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.930, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id riZ2T4Q9Z3i0; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:04:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C0F33A7069; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:03:52 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7280E3A7064 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:03:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vGRZJ1isudTh for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:03:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from oslproxyp1.tandberg.com (oslproxyp1.tandberg.com [194.0.215.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA2B3A707F for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 11:01:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from OSLEXCP11.eu.tandberg.int (oslexcp11.eu.tandberg.int [10.47.136.43]) by oslproxyp1.tandberg.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m14J2Tme021798 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2008 20:02:34 +0100 Received: from oslexcp1.eu.tandberg.int ([10.47.136.29]) by OSLEXCP11.eu.tandberg.int with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 4 Feb 2008 20:02:28 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 19:58:38 +0100 Message-ID: <9F6ACAE02B6DD040A1E259977622CFDB0161EBE4@oslexcp1.eu.tandberg.int> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Multiparty MSRP-02 submitted Thread-Index: AchnX/NlTWkDsBFgRYiZuqiBPncZiQ== From: "Geir Arne Sandbakken" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2008 19:02:28.0221 (UTC) FILETIME=[7C6EB2D0:01C86760] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.62 on 194.0.215.2 Subject: [Simple] Multiparty MSRP-02 submitted X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org The current draft still does not make nicknames mandatory to be backwards compatible with clients not supporting this draft. 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------=_NextPart_000_A14D9_01C867C0.67BF6F40-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 7 05:05:32 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 380EC3A77C5; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 05:05:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7w5IjDJKzsaR; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 05:05:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51D4E3A757E; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 05:05:31 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110E13A6F0B for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 05:05:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dvc57YTtKQdH for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 05:05:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mtagate7.de.ibm.com (mtagate7.de.ibm.com [195.212.29.156]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A143A6F0E for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 05:05:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate7.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m17D6vGJ243046 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 13:06:57 GMT Received: from d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.229]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.7) with ESMTP id m17D6vpw2064412 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 14:06:57 +0100 Received: from d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m17D6vo3005040 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 14:06:57 +0100 Received: from d12mc102.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12mc102.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.114]) by d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m17D6vOH005037 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 14:06:57 +0100 To: simple@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: 06FD1789:829023A6-C22573E8:00480DDA; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.0NP August 02, 2007 From: Avshalom Houri Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 15:06:55 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D12MC102/12/M/IBM(Release 8.0|August 02, 2007) at 07/02/2008 15:06:56, Serialize complete at 07/02/2008 15:06:56 Subject: [Simple] Summary of WGLC: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-03.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0305629916==" Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============0305629916== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 004812EEC22573E8_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 004812EEC22573E8_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi, Very few comments received during WGLC. Changes due to comments: * Number of bytes of NOTIFY message when dialog optimization is applied will increase slightly. * S08 number of bytes will decrease a bit due to error in formula. * Change of reference to 5.2 instead to 4.5 in RFC 4662 * Some other minor clarifications. I will issue a new (04) revision soon with the fixes. I am not sure that the above changes will require a new WGLC. Thanks --Avshalom --=_alternative 004812EEC22573E8_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi,

Very few comments received during WGLC.

Changes due to comments:

* Number of bytes of NOTIFY message when dialog optimization is
applied will increase slightly.

* S08 number of bytes will decrease a bit due to error in formula.

* Change of reference to 5.2 instead to 4.5 in RFC 4662

* Some other minor clarifications.

I will issue a new (04) revision soon with the fixes. I am not
sure that the above changes will require a new WGLC.

Thanks
--Avshalom
 --=_alternative 004812EEC22573E8_=-- --===============0305629916== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============0305629916==-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 7 06:45:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8D443A7970; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 06:45:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MqNLkQ+3GHPW; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 06:45:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 001573A78D1; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 06:45:31 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFED33A76F7; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 06:45:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t59qLmRqwYsK; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 06:45:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from correo.tid.es (tidos.tid.es [193.145.240.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF883A6DCC; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 06:45:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from tid (filvit [192.168.48.202]) by tid.hi.inet (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JVV002S4IEB7Q@tid.hi.inet>; Thu, 07 Feb 2008 15:46:59 +0100 (MET) Received: from [10.95.11.152] (IZAGUIRRE.hi.inet [10.95.11.152]) by tid.hi.inet (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JVV002S1IEB7Q@tid.hi.inet>; Thu, 07 Feb 2008 15:46:59 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 15:46:17 +0100 From: Enrique Izaguirre To: geopriv@ietf.org, simple@ietf.org Message-id: <47AB19B9.1000501@tid.es> MIME-version: 1.0 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) Subject: [Simple] question on presrules X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org Hi, according to RFC5025 there could be scenarios where the transformations within a matching ruled whose action=block may filter the presence document showed to the requestor. E.g. this can happen when there are two matching rules, one that is blocking and the other is allowing, and they have different transformation elements. If RFC4745 is applied, the combined action is "allow" and the combined transformation is a superset of both "transformations". So, is the assumption that clients are smart enough so they will never fall into the above case? or should a presence server prevent clients from not doing such combination of rules? Thanks and regards, Enrique. _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 7 07:57:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73BDA3A7921; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 07:57:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ixydZn6QSYCc; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 07:57:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8024F3A7851; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 07:57:41 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA963A76B2 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 07:57:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ycBz4ZWDmiEf for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 07:57:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from dizzyd.com (dizzyd.com [207.210.219.225]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4DB53A79DC for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 07:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from wrk225.corp.jabber.com (dencfw1.jabber.com [207.182.164.5]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by dizzyd.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B9CD4005D; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:57:42 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <47AB2A75.1020804@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 08:57:41 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Avshalom Houri References: In-Reply-To: Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Simple] Summary of WGLC: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-03.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1441119937==" Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --===============1441119937== Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050302090304090005050800" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050302090304090005050800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Avshalom Houri wrote: > Hi, > > Very few comments received during WGLC. > > Changes due to comments: > > * Number of bytes of NOTIFY message when dialog optimization is > applied will increase slightly. > > * S08 number of bytes will decrease a bit due to error in formula. > > * Change of reference to 5.2 instead to 4.5 in RFC 4662 > > * Some other minor clarifications. I don't think the feedback I provided would result in minor clarifications: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/simple/current/msg07650.html > I will issue a new (04) revision soon with the fixes. Great, thanks. I look forward to -04 and will update the XMPP presence analysis soon thereafter. 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Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============1441119937==-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 7 08:30:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 525353A7887; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:30:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G+pvLagE1oyu; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:30:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BDBD3A768F; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:30:42 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADE5E3A768F for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:30:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fWaIxFGYrhsR for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:30:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mtagate3.de.ibm.com (mtagate3.de.ibm.com [195.212.29.152]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D7F3A682F for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:30:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate3.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m17GW8mR075436 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 16:32:08 GMT Received: from d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.229]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.7) with ESMTP id m17GW7Aj2044112 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:32:07 +0100 Received: from d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m17GW7gM002525 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:32:07 +0100 Received: from d12mc102.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12mc102.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.114]) by d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m17GW7dn002518 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:32:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: <47AB2A75.1020804@stpeter.im> References: <47AB2A75.1020804@stpeter.im> To: Peter Saint-Andre MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: 1A522869:C2C9B3FA-C22573E8:005A61B5; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.0NP August 02, 2007 From: Avshalom Houri Message-ID: Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 18:32:04 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D12MC102/12/M/IBM(Release 8.0|August 02, 2007) at 07/02/2008 18:32:06, Serialize complete at 07/02/2008 18:32:06 Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Simple] Summary of WGLC: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-03.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1605894262==" Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============1605894262== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 005ADAE0C22573E8_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 005ADAE0C22573E8_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Peter, Not sure how I have missed your original message. Sorry. I intended to make clear that I am not trying to compare protocol also due to comment from Joe. I will also address your other comments as well in version 04. Thanks --Avshalom Peter Saint-Andre 07/02/2008 17:57 To Avshalom Houri/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL cc simple@ietf.org Subject Re: [Simple] Summary of WGLC: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-03.txt Avshalom Houri wrote: > Hi, > > Very few comments received during WGLC. > > Changes due to comments: > > * Number of bytes of NOTIFY message when dialog optimization is > applied will increase slightly. > > * S08 number of bytes will decrease a bit due to error in formula. > > * Change of reference to 5.2 instead to 4.5 in RFC 4662 > > * Some other minor clarifications. I don't think the feedback I provided would result in minor clarifications: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/simple/current/msg07650.html > I will issue a new (04) revision soon with the fixes. Great, thanks. I look forward to -04 and will update the XMPP presence analysis soon thereafter. Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ --=_alternative 005ADAE0C22573E8_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Peter,

Not sure how I have missed your original message. Sorry. I intended to make clear that I am not trying to
compare protocol also due to comment from Joe.

I will also address your other comments as well in version 04.

Thanks
--Avshalom


Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>

07/02/2008 17:57

To
Avshalom Houri/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL
cc
simple@ietf.org
Subject
Re: [Simple] Summary of WGLC:        http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-03.txt





Avshalom Houri wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Very few comments received during WGLC.
>
> Changes due to comments:
>
> * Number of bytes of NOTIFY message when dialog optimization is
> applied will increase slightly.
>
> * S08 number of bytes will decrease a bit due to error in formula.
>
> * Change of reference to 5.2 instead to 4.5 in RFC 4662
>
> * Some other minor clarifications.

I don't think the feedback I provided would result in minor clarifications:

http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/simple/current/msg07650.html

> I will issue a new (04) revision soon with the fixes.

Great, thanks. I look forward to -04 and will update the XMPP presence
analysis soon thereafter.

Peter

--
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/
--=_alternative 005ADAE0C22573E8_=-- --===============1605894262== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============1605894262==-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 7 08:37:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E18013A7928; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:37:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oWbIyC3aLJSX; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:37:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEFF33A7821; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:37:33 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7DC73A79AD for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:37:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GrmVG6H5D2Y8 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:37:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from dizzyd.com (dizzyd.com [207.210.219.225]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6ED03A7970 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:36:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from wrk225.corp.jabber.com (dencfw1.jabber.com [207.182.164.5]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by dizzyd.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED887400F7; Thu, 7 Feb 2008 09:37:30 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <47AB33C9.9030002@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 09:37:29 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Avshalom Houri References: <47AB2A75.1020804@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Simple] Summary of WGLC: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-03.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0130215878==" Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --===============0130215878== Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms090700040508030501060106" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090700040508030501060106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Avshalom Houri wrote: > Peter, > > Not sure how I have missed your original message. Sorry. I intended to > make clear that I am not trying to > compare protocol also due to comment from Joe. > > I will also address your other comments as well in version 04. Super, thanks! I'd be happy to work together on syncing the scenarios. 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--===============0130215878==-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 11 18:28:23 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D3C28CB8D; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:28:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.231 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.231 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.394, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JNJpz8I2qV7v; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:28:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 452C528C567; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:28:21 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00AE43A6A63; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:28:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UrFbi-+UIB7z; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:28:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-1.cisco.com (sj-iport-1.cisco.com [171.71.176.70]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05C053A687E; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:28:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Feb 2008 18:29:44 -0800 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m1C2Thnw030683; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:29:43 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id m1C2TZ63014817; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:29:38 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.174]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:29:34 -0800 Received: from [10.32.241.150] ([10.32.241.150]) by xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:29:33 -0800 Message-ID: <47B1047E.1090800@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:29:18 -0500 From: Jonathan Rosenberg User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Enrique Izaguirre References: <47AB19B9.1000501@tid.es> In-Reply-To: <47AB19B9.1000501@tid.es> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Feb 2008 02:29:33.0845 (UTC) FILETIME=[1AA45450:01C86D1F] Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=jdrosen@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); Cc: geopriv@ietf.org, simple@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Simple] [Geopriv] question on presrules X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org Enrique Izaguirre wrote: > Hi, > > according to RFC5025 there could be scenarios where the transformations > within a matching ruled whose action=block may filter the presence > document showed to the requestor. > > E.g. this can happen when there are two matching rules, one that is > blocking and the other is allowing, and they have different > transformation elements. If RFC4745 is applied, the combined action is > "allow" and the combined transformation is a superset of both > "transformations". Right. That is a possibility. > > So, is the assumption that clients are smart enough so they will never > fall into the above case? or should a presence server prevent clients > from not doing such combination of rules? Its a job of the UI on the client to prevent this. Normally its not a problem. The spec has this to say: A consequence of this design is that the results of combining several authorization documents can be non-obvious to end users. For example, if one authorization document grants permission for all users from the example.com domain to see their presence, and another document blocks joe@example.com, the combination of these will still provide presence to joe@example.com. Designers of user interfaces are encouraged to carefully pay attention to the results of combining multiple rules. -Jonathan R. -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 499 Thornall St. Cisco Fellow Edison, NJ 08837 Cisco, Voice Technology Group jdrosen@cisco.com http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (408) 902-3084 http://www.cisco.com _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 22:24:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 394C528C9E2; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:24:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.360, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SHVZ2s3oHCbZ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:24:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3853F3A6FD5; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:24:57 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC8128C80B for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:24:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dfq6O4xeUBoq for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:24:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.177]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD05628C928 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:23:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k40so534172wah.25 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:25:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.115.106.7 with SMTP id i7mr1079706wam.18.1202970320715; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:25:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.76.17 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:25:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <66cd252f0802132225w8c2f779u4d5843036ace7ee6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:25:20 +1100 From: "Hisham Khartabil" To: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Victoria_Beltr=E1n_Mart=EDnez?=" In-Reply-To: <479E0908.9040601@entel.upc.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <479E0908.9040601@entel.upc.es> Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Simple] full-state RLMI documents after resubscriptions (RFC 4662) X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0800917166==" Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org --===============0800917166== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_126_21098050.1202970320706" ------=_Part_126_21098050.1202970320706 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Section 5.2 is indicating that the NOTIFY MUST have "fullState" attribute set to 'true' and the state information must be full state, if the NOTFIY i= s sent. Section 4.5 is talking about sending the actual NOTIFY request. It is a SHOULD, which really means MUST anyway unless you have a really good reason not to do so. Hisham On 29/01/2008, Victoria Beltr=E1n Mart=EDnez wrote= : > > I would be pleased to receive any clarification about an issue > originated in a discussion about the draft > "draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-03": > > In section 4.5 of RFC 4662 the sentence "Immediate notifications > triggered as a result of subsequent SUBSCRIBE messages SHOULD include an > RLMI document in which the full state is indicated" indicates that > sending full-state documents after resubscriptions is only a > recommendation (not a requirement). However, in section 5.2 of the same > RFC the sentence "The first NOTIFY sent in a subscription MUST contain > full state, as must the first NOTIFY sent after receipt of a SUBSCRIBE > request for the subscription" indicates that full-state documents are > required after the receipt of any SUBSCRIBE message (for both the > initial subscription and resubscriptions). I think that these two > sentences are a bit contradictory. Must the Resource List Server send a > full-state RLMI document when it receives a subsequent (not inital) > SUBSCRIBE message? > > Thanks in advance, > > Victoria Beltr=E1n > > > _______________________________________________ > Simple mailing list > Simple@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple > ------=_Part_126_21098050.1202970320706 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Section 5.2 is indicating that the NOTIFY MUST have "fullState&qu= ot; attribute set to 'true' and the state information must be = full state, if the NOTFIY is sent.
 
Section 4.5 is talking about sending the actual NOTIFY request. It is = a SHOULD, which really means MUST anyway unless you have a really good reas= on not to do so.
 
Hisham

 
On 29/01/2008, Victoria Beltr=E1n Mart=EDnez <vbeltran@entel.upc.edu> wrote:
I would be pleased to receive an= y clarification about an issue
originated in a discussion about the draf= t
"draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-03":

In se= ction 4.5 of RFC 4662 the sentence "Immediate notifications
trigger= ed as a result of subsequent SUBSCRIBE messages SHOULD include an
RLMI d= ocument in which the full state is indicated" indicates that
sending full-state documents after resubscriptions is only a
recommendat= ion (not a requirement). However, in section 5.2 of the same
RFC the sen= tence "The first NOTIFY sent in a subscription MUST contain
full st= ate, as must the first NOTIFY sent after receipt of a SUBSCRIBE
request for the subscription" indicates that full-state documents are<= br>required after the receipt of any SUBSCRIBE message (for both the
ini= tial subscription and resubscriptions). I think that these two
sentences= are a bit contradictory. Must the Resource List Server send a
full-state RLMI document when it receives a subsequent (not inital)
SUBS= CRIBE message?

Thanks in advance,

Victoria Beltr=E1n

<= br>_______________________________________________
Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/list= info/simple

------=_Part_126_21098050.1202970320706-- --===============0800917166== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============0800917166==-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 22:32:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9FFF28CBCA; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:32:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.389 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.389 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.174, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tO92aMMo6UnD; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:32:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E57F3A6EEF; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:32:32 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899023A7036 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:32:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SBlmLWWWu+x5 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:32:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.182]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B6813A6EEF for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:32:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k40so537655wah.25 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:33:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.78.1 with SMTP id a1mr1041498wab.102.1202970830516; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:33:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.76.17 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:33:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <66cd252f0802132233g428060ch735d22a77c22a9b1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:33:50 +1100 From: "Hisham Khartabil" To: "Geir Arne Sandbakken" In-Reply-To: <9F6ACAE02B6DD040A1E259977622CFDB0161E1F1@oslexcp1.eu.tandberg.int> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <479E24C3.7090907@stpeter.im> <9F6ACAE02B6DD040A1E259977622CFDB0161E1F1@oslexcp1.eu.tandberg.int> Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Simple] I-D Action:draft-ietf-simple-chat-01.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2066336138==" Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org --===============2066336138== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_148_8246198.1202970830497" ------=_Part_148_8246198.1202970830497 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Geir, I think it would be an overkill if we poll the community for this. Please agree with Peter on the terminology and then suggest those to the mailing list once agreed. Any objections can then be communicated by others. Thanks, Hisham On 30/01/2008, Geir Arne Sandbakken wrote: > > Peter, > > If the community wants to have a specific terminology, I am more than > happy apply any changes to the draft itself. Being new to the simple wg > I feel it's not my call to select it though. > > Thanks, > Geir Arne > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Peter Saint-Andre [mailto:stpeter@stpeter.im] > > > > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > > > > Title : Multi-party Instant Message (IM) Sessions Using > the > > > Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP) > > > Author(s) : A. Niemi, et al. > > > Filename : draft-ietf-simple-chat-01.txt > > > > I think it might be helpful for everyone in the real-time > communications > > space (or at least us IETFers) to settle on terminology for one-to-one > > text chat vs. multi-user text chat. For many years, those of us in the > > Jabber/XMPP community have called multi-user text chat "groupchat" and > > have reserved the word "chat" for one-to-one text chat. Some people in > > the RTC space also call multi-user text chat "text conferencing", on > the > > model of voice chat (one-to-one) vs. voice conferencing or video chat > > vs. video conferencing. > > > > Also, draft-saintandre-sip-xmpp-chat discusses interworking between > SIP > > and XMPP for one-to-one chat (via MSRP), and the authors of that spec > > plan to write draft-saintandre-sip-xmpp-groupchat (interworking for > > multi-user chat). It would be good to have consistent terminology for > > such functionality. > > > > Just a thought. :) > > > > Peter > > > > -- > > Peter Saint-Andre > > https://stpeter.im/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Simple mailing list > Simple@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple > ------=_Part_148_8246198.1202970830497 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Geir,
 
I think it would be an overkill if we poll the community for this. Please agree with Peter on the terminology and then suggest those to the mailing list once agreed. Any objections can then be communicated by others.
 
Thanks,
Hisham

 
On 30/01/2008, Geir Arne Sandbakken <geir.sandbakken@tandberg.com> wrote:
Peter,

If the community wants to have a specific terminology, I am more than
happy apply any changes to the draft itself.  Being new to the simple wg
I feel it's not my call to select it though.

Thanks,
Geir Arne

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Saint-Andre [mailto:stpeter@stpeter.im]
>
> Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:
>
> > Title           : Multi-party Instant Message (IM) Sessions Using
the
> > Message Session Relay Protocol (MSRP)
> >  Author(s)       : A. Niemi, et al.
> > Filename        : draft-ietf-simple-chat-01.txt
>
> I think it might be helpful for everyone in the real-time
communications
> space (or at least us IETFers) to settle on terminology for one-to-one
> text chat vs. multi-user text chat. For many years, those of us in the
> Jabber/XMPP community have called multi-user text chat "groupchat" and
> have reserved the word "chat" for one-to-one text chat. Some people in
> the RTC space also call multi-user text chat "text conferencing", on
the
> model of voice chat (one-to-one) vs. voice conferencing or video chat
> vs. video conferencing.
>
> Also, draft-saintandre-sip-xmpp-chat discusses interworking between
SIP
> and XMPP for one-to-one chat (via MSRP), and the authors of that spec
> plan to write draft-saintandre-sip-xmpp-groupchat (interworking for
> multi-user chat). It would be good to have consistent terminology for
> such functionality.
>
> Just a thought. :)
>
> Peter
>
> --
> Peter Saint-Andre
> https://stpeter.im/



_______________________________________________
Simple mailing list
Simple@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple

------=_Part_148_8246198.1202970830497-- --===============2066336138== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============2066336138==-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 02:11:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F9F28D10A; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:11:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.964 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.964 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.527, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jwXYmWaeNCcZ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:11:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4520B3A6975; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:11:14 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0626F28CEE0 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:11:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iwL+ODQTdOXl for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:11:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-mx03.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [192.100.122.230]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 364C63A63EC for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:09:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh107.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.143]) by mgw-mx03.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id m1FAAtLS017427; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:11:17 +0200 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:11:15 +0200 Received: from esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.53]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:11:15 +0200 Received: from [172.21.40.139] ([172.21.40.139]) by esebe105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:11:15 +0200 Message-ID: <47B56523.1070106@nokia.com> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:10:43 +0200 From: Jari Urpalainen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (X11/20071022) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ext Per Norrman References: <582B939025E978418C0B92DC134ADE9F022B5E94@esealmw106.eemea.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <582B939025E978418C0B92DC134ADE9F022B5E94@esealmw106.eemea.ericsson.se> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Feb 2008 10:11:15.0436 (UTC) FILETIME=[1950EAC0:01C86FBB] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Simple] Restricted XPath in xml-patch-ops X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org ext Per Norrman wrote: > > Hello, > > The xml-patch schema defines the "xpath" and "xpath-add" type as > subsets of an XPath expression. The node types comment, text and > processing-instruction are valid node tests, but not the general > "node" type. Is there a specific reason why the node() construct is > not allowed? > yes, the design rule was to drop anything that can be lived without, so the defined operations are meant to provide the baseline only. The node() function is just overlap to *, text(), comment() and processing-instruction() > > I would argue that the node() construct allows for easier construction > of XPath expressions during the diff process, and for more efficient > node selection in the patch process, since it would not be necessary > to create a namespace binding for the XPath evaluation step. > > /per norrman > if you really want to avoid namespace scoping in selections, the above node-specific selections (*, text() etc..) do _not_ require any namespace mangling. Also node() function would only be reasonable at the last evaluation step, so it is more reasonable to select "*/*[4]/*[3]/text()" than e.g. "*/node()[7]/node()[5]/node()[2]". So node() function is certainly shorter than e.g. the pi ;-) selection, but it still doesn't justify it's usage in the base spec. So simplicity and the fact that it doesn't bring any real benefits were the reasons to omit it. br, Jari _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 17 16:28:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E14D63A6B60; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:28:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.331 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.331 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.247, BAYES_40=-0.185, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, MIME_HTML_MOSTLY=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X2agq5IEBPQc; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:28:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C46613A683E; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:28:38 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E963A6806 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:28:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lha2Yr8TJTaY for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:28:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from neustar.com (ns6.neustar.com [156.154.16.88]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A32C3A67D9 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 16:28:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from ([194.90.41.50]) by stihiron1.va.neustar.com with ESMTP id 5202702.4752120; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:28:08 -0500 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 22:28:07 +0200 Message-ID: <8E5AB0A04458904BB9B079055261033C04355667@mail.followap.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Re: [Simple] [Geopriv] question on presrules Thread-Index: Achxo5sjDXVjUrD8ROq5HeE7HONsJA== From: "Erik Shani" To: Subject: Re: [Simple] [Geopriv] question on presrules X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2117086444==" Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============2117086444== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C871A3.9BB5F846" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C871A3.9BB5F846 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I still feel that the question raised by Enrique exists. Is it the job of the UI to prevent such scenarios? In my opinion this is impossible. Let us take a scenario when two different clients work with the same server.=20 It is impossible to predict what will be the behavior of the other client, hence it is required (in my opinion) that the client "understands" the current document and performs its operations accordingly. Otherwise I see no real chance for full interoperability between clients. =20 Enrique Izaguirre wrote: > Hi, >=20 > according to RFC5025 there could be scenarios where the=20 > transformations within a matching ruled whose action=3Dblock may = filter=20 > the presence document showed to the requestor. >=20 > E.g. this can happen when there are two matching rules, one that is=20 > blocking and the other is allowing, and they have different=20 > transformation elements. If RFC4745 is applied, the combined action is > "allow" and the combined transformation is a superset of both=20 > "transformations". =20 Right. That is a possibility. =20 >=20 > So, is the assumption that clients are smart enough so they will never > fall into the above case? or should a presence server prevent clients=20 > from not doing such combination of rules? =20 Its a job of the UI on the client to prevent this. Normally its not a problem. The spec has this to say: =20 A consequence of this design is that the results of combining several authorization documents can be non-obvious to end users. For example, if one authorization document grants permission for all users from the example.com domain to see their presence, and another document blocks joe@example.com, the combination of these will still provide presence to joe@example.com. Designers of user interfaces are encouraged to carefully pay attention to the results of combining multiple rules. =20 -Jonathan R. --=20 =20 Erik Shani: NeuStar - Next Generation Messaging=20 Presence Platform System engineer [ M ] +972(0)54 252 2034 [ T ] +972(0)4 814 2234 [ F ] +972(0)4 855 0395 [ W ] www.neustar.biz/ngm =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C871A3.9BB5F846 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I still feel that the question raised by Enrique = exists.

Is it the job of the UI to prevent such = scenarios?

In my opinion this is impossible. Let us take a = scenario when two different clients work with the same server. =

It is impossible to predict what will be the behavior = of the other client, hence it is required (in my opinion) that the client = “understands” the current document and performs its operations = accordingly.

Otherwise I see no real chance for full = interoperability between clients.

 

Enrique Izaguirre = wrote:

> = Hi,

> =

> according to = RFC5025 there could be scenarios where the

> = transformations within a matching ruled whose action=3Dblock may filter =

> the presence = document showed to the requestor.

> =

> E.g. this can = happen when there are two matching rules, one that is =

> blocking and = the other is allowing, and they have different

> transformation elements. If RFC4745 is applied, the combined action is =

> = "allow" and the combined transformation is a superset of both =

> "transformations".

 

Right. That is a possibility.

 

> =

> So, is the = assumption that clients are smart enough so they will never =

> fall into the = above case? or should a presence server prevent clients =

> from not doing = such combination of rules?

 

Its a job of the UI = on the client to prevent this. Normally its not a problem. The spec has this to = say:

 

A consequence of = this design is that the results of combining several

    = authorization documents can be non-obvious to end users.  For

    = example, if one authorization document grants permission for = all

    = users from the example.com domain to see their presence, and = another

    = document blocks joe@example.com, the combination of these will = still

    = provide presence to joe@example.com.  Designers of user = interfaces

    = are encouraged to carefully pay attention to the results of = combining

    = multiple rules.

 

-Jonathan = R.

-- =

 

Erik = Shani:  NeuStar - Next Generation = Messaging

Presence Platform System = engineer

[ M ] +972(0)54 252 2034 = [ T ] +972(0)4 814 2234    = [ F ] +972(0)4 855 0395    [ W = ] www.neustar.biz/ngm

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C871A3.9BB5F846-- --===============2117086444== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============2117086444==-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 06:12:21 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E31AD28C312; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 06:12:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.576 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.576 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.139, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ACd9GItIOTwg; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 06:12:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CD2D28C3A0; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 06:12:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3FE728C3AE for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 06:12:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vPMzo+rsXIkX for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 06:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-mx09.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [192.100.105.134]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED5D28C3A0 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 06:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh108.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.145]) by mgw-mx09.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id m1IECqhg024465; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:13:36 -0600 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:11:43 +0200 Received: from esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.177]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:11:43 +0200 Received: from [10.144.23.28] ([10.144.23.28]) by esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:11:43 +0200 Message-ID: <47B9921F.10807@nsn.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:11:43 +0200 From: Miguel Garcia User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SIMPLE mailing list X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2008 14:11:43.0241 (UTC) FILETIME=[30327F90:01C87238] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Cc: "Tschofenig Hannes \(NSN - FI/Espoo\)" , Henning Schulzrinne Subject: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org Hi: We have just submitted a draft that discusses the issue of indirect publication. The first part of the draft focuses on location URIs, so, perhaps it is of not much interest to the SIMPLE WG. Filename: draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-publish Revision: 00 Title: Indirect Presence Publication with the Session Initiation Protocol(SIP) Creation_date: 2008-02-18 WG ID: Independent Submission Number_of_pages: 12 http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-publish-00.txt Comments are welcome. /Miguel -- Miguel A. Garcia tel:+358-50-4804586 Nokia Siemens Networks Espoo, Finland _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 22:41:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F15D13A6AFD; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:41:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.466 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.466 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mDOFFiYp6Khr; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:41:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 275E43A6A2F; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:41:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2D963A6A28 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:41:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OhOI7B1M3X4A for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:41:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga02-in.huawei.com (unknown [61.144.161.54]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D0903A6A22 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:41:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga02-in [172.24.2.6]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JWH005JG3W5ML@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for simple@ietf.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:40:53 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.18]) by szxga02-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JWH00BHW3W499@szxga02-in.huawei.com> for simple@ietf.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:40:53 +0800 (CST) Received: from s32328b ([10.85.203.144]) by szxml03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JWH000GY3W4LG@szxml03-in.huawei.com> for simple@ietf.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:40:52 +0800 (CST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:40:52 +0800 From: Qian Sun In-reply-to: <47B9921F.10807@nsn.com> To: 'Miguel Garcia' , 'SIMPLE mailing list' Message-id: <005601c872c2$5f4553e0$90cb550a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: AchyOE5zimIbN0E+RB6sou5j5EPuPQAiEZbg Cc: "'Tschofenig Hannes \(NSN - FI/Espoo\)'" , 'Henning Schulzrinne' Subject: Re: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Could LCP Server as a presence source directly PUBLISH presentity's location value to Presence Server? Presence Server can compose a merged PIDF document including presence information from different sources. Cheers, Qian -----Original Message----- From: simple-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:simple-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Miguel Garcia Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 10:12 PM To: SIMPLE mailing list Cc: Tschofenig Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo); Henning Schulzrinne Subject: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft Hi: We have just submitted a draft that discusses the issue of indirect publication. The first part of the draft focuses on location URIs, so, perhaps it is of not much interest to the SIMPLE WG. Filename: draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-publish Revision: 00 Title: Indirect Presence Publication with the Session Initiation Protocol(SIP) Creation_date: 2008-02-18 WG ID: Independent Submission Number_of_pages: 12 http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-pu blish-00.txt Comments are welcome. /Miguel -- Miguel A. Garcia tel:+358-50-4804586 Nokia Siemens Networks Espoo, Finland _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 19 05:32:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2A4928C5BF; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:32:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.872 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.872 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.750, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p-SUTOdXfeJ2; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:32:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A4B28C5B2; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:32:46 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A4CC28C5B1 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:32:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ToExrejDkN6F for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:32:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ebru.winwebhosting.com (ebru.winwebhosting.com [74.54.111.226]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2761628C50F for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:32:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from neustargw.va.neustar.com ([209.173.53.233] helo=BROSLT41xp) by ebru.winwebhosting.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JRSaL-0002Mz-N4 for simple@ietf.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 07:32:37 -0600 From: "Brian Rosen" To: Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:32:38 -0500 Message-ID: <059201c872fb$e69e7040$640fa8c0@cis.neustar.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0593_01C872D1.FDC86840" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Achybi3GbaVNaKk7TBu6JAmkrBCiIQAjUClQ X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ebru.winwebhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - brianrosen.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Subject: [Simple] FW: I-D Action:draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0593_01C872D1.FDC86840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please take a look at this draft. The authors would appreciate your comments. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 3:30 PM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action:draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > Title : Optimizing Notifications for Presence Network > Agents > Author(s) : B. Rosen, et al. > Filename : draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt > Pages : 19 > Date : 2008-02-18 > > In large presence systems deployed in multiservice networks, presence > information is often known by the network in addition to, or instead > of the presentity's devices (endpoints). Examples of such > information include location and availability for various kinds of > session establishment. Even if devices know the information, the > network often has more bandwidth and better scale to keep the > presence server up to date. A Presence Network Agent (PNA) can > publish presence information to a Presence Server(PS). When done > large scale, the basic publish operation can be inefficient. When > the network has millions of subscribers, only some of which have > watchers, blind Publish operations are unecessary. WINFO can be used > to determine watchers, but the efficiency of maintaining WINFO per > subscriber, and the size of the messages involved, make that solution > unattractive. The PNA would prefer to have the Presence Server > simply tell it when there was at least one watcher. > > This document describes an XML document stored on the PS by which the > PNA maintains a list of subscribers it can provide presence for as a > SIP event package that tells the PNA when the number of watchers for > a presentity on the list (or a specific presence element for a > presentity) goes from 0 to at least 1 or from 1 to 0. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count- > 00.txt > > To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > the message. > You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > to change your subscription settings. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. ------=_NextPart_000_0593_01C872D1.FDC86840 Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="ATT00941.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT00941.dat" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-02-18121704.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt ------=_NextPart_000_0593_01C872D1.FDC86840 Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-02-18121704.I-D\@ietf.org> ------=_NextPart_000_0593_01C872D1.FDC86840 Content-Type: text/plain; name="ATT00944.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT00944.txt" _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce ------=_NextPart_000_0593_01C872D1.FDC86840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple ------=_NextPart_000_0593_01C872D1.FDC86840-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 20 02:45:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 467C028C6C1; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:45:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id udMFQFq0t6nM; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:45:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7889628C0DE; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:45:21 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@ietf.org Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id C4C7B3A680E; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:45:01 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: <20080220104501.C4C7B3A680E@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:45:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: [Simple] I-D Action:draft-ietf-simple-partial-publish-07.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : Publication of Partial Presence Information Author(s) : A. Niemi, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-simple-partial-publish-07.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2008-02-20 The Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Extension for Event State Publication describes a mechanism with which a presence user agent is able to publish presence information to a presence agent. Using the Presence Information Data Format (PIDF), each presence publication contains full state, regardless of how much of that information has actually changed since the previous update. As a consequence, updating a sizeable presence document with small changes bears a considerable overhead and is therefore inefficient. Especially with low bandwidth and high latency links, this can constitue a considerable burden to the system. This memo defines a solution that aids in reducing the impact of those constraints and increases transport efficiency by introducing a mechanism that allows for publication of partial presence information. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-partial-publish-07.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-simple-partial-publish-07.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-partial-publish-07.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-02-20023338.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-partial-publish-07.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-simple-partial-publish-07.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-02-20023338.I-D\@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --NextPart-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 04:23:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5782428C7B9; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:23:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.416 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.416 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.979, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3B-S7iA67GJZ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4C128C6B3; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:23:32 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2469C3A683B for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:23:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tmmsetXB0c68 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:23:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mtagate4.de.ibm.com (mtagate4.de.ibm.com [195.212.29.153]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64D3728C5C5 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:23:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate4.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1LCNM3q174626 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:23:22 GMT Received: from d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.229]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.7) with ESMTP id m1LCNMct1970262 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:23:22 +0100 Received: from d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m1LCNMjK007760 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:23:22 +0100 Received: from d12mc102.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12mc102.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.114]) by d12av04.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m1LCNL0K007757; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:23:21 +0100 In-Reply-To: <478E90E2.3020802@stpeter.im> References: <478E90E2.3020802@stpeter.im> To: Peter Saint-Andre MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: BA4B42DA:F8BA5526-C22573F6:003DD634; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.0NP August 02, 2007 From: Avshalom Houri Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:23:20 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D12MC102/12/M/IBM(Release 8.0|August 02, 2007) at 21/02/2008 14:23:21, Serialize complete at 21/02/2008 14:23:21 Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Simple] WGLC: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-03.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1999802100==" Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============1999802100== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00440DA5C22573F6_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00440DA5C22573F6_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Working on version 4. Following is some feedback on what I plan to do. Appreciate if you can give me feedback ASAP (deadline for drafts this IETF is Monday 25th). --Avshalom Peter Saint-Andre wrote on 17/01/2008 01:18:58: > Robert Sparks wrote: > > This is a SIMPLE Working Group Last Call for Comments on > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain- > scaling-analysis-03.txt > > > > Please review this draft carefully. Provide comments to the editor > > and/or the list no later than > > Monday 21 January 2008. > > I think this draft needs further work before it is ready for IETF Last > Call. As a point of comparison, I have just updated a similar analysis > for XMPP: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-saintandre-xmpp-presence- > analysis-03.txt > > Herewith some comments. > > 1. As I previously expressed on this list, I think it is not a good idea > to compare two different technologies in such a document. Therefore I > have removed any mention of SIP presence from the XMPP analysis (other > than to point to draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis from my > I-D), and I suggest that the authors of the SIP/SIMPLE analysis do the > same. There are just too many differing assumptions and possible > scenarios to accurately compare two presence technologies in a single > document (let alone more than two technologies). Therefore I strongly > suggest the following: > Will remove explicit references to XMPP in the text. I am not sure about the removal to "other protocols" in the text. I do not want to mean XMPP specifically but want to say that even with all the optimizations that we can of (given SIP base) what should we expect. > 1a. Modify the second paragraph of Section 1 ("Introduction") to remove > references to other presence technologies. > > 1b. Remove Section 2.10 ("Other Protocols"). In particular, the > calculations in this section use SIP terminology, which patently does > not apply to non-SIP systems. I think that it is important. I may need to change the language to make it more eplicit that what we mean here that with all optimizations that we can think of we still get X messages and Y bytes. > > 1c. Remove the fourth bullet-point in Section 7 ("Conclusions"). In > particular, during discussion on this list the claims in this paragraph > were shown to be seriously misleading or false. Agree. Will rephrase and remove XMPP. I probably should not have put it there in the first place. What do you think about adding the following paragraph somewhere in the text: "The calculations here are based on the assumption that all data is carried in bound of the protocol and no optimizations that enable getting the presence information via out bound means are taken into account. These optimizations may improve the number of messages and number of bytes significantly but they are out of scope for this document" > > 1d. In several places the analysis claims to apply not just to > SIP/SIMPLE presence systems but to presence systems built using any > possible presence technology. Extreme care should be taken when making > such statements. OK > > 2. While working on the XMPP presence analysis just now, I attempted to > incorporate the fact that the number of users who are registered with a > presence service is typically much greater than the number of users who > have an active presence session with the service. In my experience > helping to run a fairly large (~300,000 user) consumer-oriented presence > and messaging service, typically at most 5% of the users are "online" at > any one time. The number of online users within an enterprise deployment > is typically higher, on the order or 40% online. To be conservative, in > the XMPP analysis I have assumed that 10% of the users at a service > provider deployment are online at any one time and that 50% of the users > at an enterprise deployment are online at any one time. I do not see > that this factor has been taken into account in the SIP/SIMPLE analysis > (though perhaps I am missing something). I think it is extremely > important to take the registered vs. online factor into account because > this is the usage pattern that presence systems experience in the real > world and those who read these presence analyses will quickly be scared > off if we don't do so (they will just look at the number of users and > assume that is the number of concurrent presence sessions). Having 40K watchers between two domains or 20M watchers between two very big domains does not seem to be that high. Getting official numbers of number of users and rate of usage is almost impossible so we did some educated guesses. Recall also that we are not modeling the usage within a single domain but the numbers between multiple domains. I think that the numbers are reasonable. Are there specific numbers that seem to be too high? > > 3. The real-world numbers in Section 2.2 ("Assumptions") are helpful, > but they are incomplete: > > 3a. What are the numbers of registered users and concurrent users for > the "large consumer network"? > > 3b. Are the 110 users (consumer network) and 200 users (enterprise) in > the watch list total users or federated users? Only the number of > federated users is important for this analysis. > > 3c. Why is the peak number of instant messages mentioned for the > consumer network? This analysis deals only with presence. > > 3d. It is mentioned that about 50% of the enterprise users are online at > any one time. What percentage of the users at the consumer network are > online at any one time? And (as mentioned) is this kind of percentage > factored into the calculations? Numbers here are more for getting the sense of things. I was not able to get the numbers or everythings since some of these numbers are considered confidential. I will try to clarify. > > 4. The inclusion of full vs. partial notifies, dialog optimizations, > NOTIFY optimizations, and so on makes the calculations very involved and > confusing to read (e.g., I have not yet had time to review them all in > detail). Can they be simplified somehow? We need to show the effect of various optimizations in SIP. I am not sure how to simplify this. Will try. > > 5. I think it might help to make the scenarios a bit more realistic, at > least by explaining how a particular scenario might apply in the real > world (e.g., "this scenario is similar to what might be observed in the > context of federation between two large service providers"). I have > tried to do that in version -03 of the XMPP analysis, but we could even > go farther. OK > > 6. When I attempted to address the issue of real-world relevance, I > found that several of the scenarios in the XMPP analysis diverged from > the scenarios in the SIP analysis. I would be happy to work directly > with the authors of draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis to > sync up on the scenarios. Can you elaborate more on this? Maybe we can discuss off-list. > > That's it for now. > > Peter > > -- > Peter Saint-Andre > https://stpeter.im/ > > [attachment "smime.p7s" deleted by Avshalom Houri/Haifa/IBM] > _______________________________________________ > Simple mailing list > Simple@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --=_alternative 00440DA5C22573F6_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Working on version 4. Following is some feedback on what I plan to do.
Appreciate if you can give me feedback ASAP (deadline for drafts this IETF is Monday 25th).

--Avshalom

Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> wrote on 17/01/2008 01:18:58:

> Robert Sparks wrote:
> > This is a SIMPLE Working Group Last Call for Comments on
> > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-
> scaling-analysis-03.txt
> >
> > Please review this draft carefully. Provide comments to the editor
> > and/or the list no later than
> > Monday 21 January 2008.
>
> I think this draft needs further work before it is ready for IETF Last
> Call. As a point of comparison, I have just updated a similar analysis
> for XMPP:
>
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-saintandre-xmpp-presence-
> analysis-03.txt
>
> Herewith some comments.
>
> 1. As I previously expressed on this list, I think it is not a good idea
> to compare two different technologies in such a document. Therefore I
> have removed any mention of SIP presence from the XMPP analysis (other
> than to point to draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis from my
> I-D), and I suggest that the authors of the SIP/SIMPLE analysis do the
> same. There are just too many differing assumptions and possible
> scenarios to accurately compare two presence technologies in a single
> document (let alone more than two technologies). Therefore I strongly
> suggest the following:
>

Will remove explicit references to XMPP in the text.

I am not sure about the removal to "other protocols" in the text.
I do not want to mean XMPP specifically but want to say that even with
all the optimizations that we can of (given SIP base) what should we expect.

> 1a. Modify the second paragraph of Section 1 ("Introduction") to remove
> references to other presence technologies.
>
> 1b. Remove Section 2.10 ("Other Protocols"). In particular, the
> calculations in this section use SIP terminology, which patently does
> not apply to non-SIP systems.

I think that it is important. I may need to change the language to make
it more eplicit that what we mean here that with all optimizations that
we can think of we still get X messages and Y bytes.

>
> 1c. Remove the fourth bullet-point in Section 7 ("Conclusions"). In
> particular, during discussion on this list the claims in this paragraph
> were shown to be seriously misleading or false.
Agree. Will rephrase and remove XMPP. I probably should not have put it there in the
first place.

What do you think about adding the following paragraph somewhere in the text:

"The calculations here are based on the assumption that all data is carried in bound of the
protocol and no optimizations that enable getting the presence information via out bound means
are taken into account. These optimizations may improve the number of messages and number of bytes
significantly but they are out of scope for this document"

>
> 1d. In several places the analysis claims to apply not just to
> SIP/SIMPLE presence systems but to presence systems built using any
> possible presence technology. Extreme care should be taken when making
> such statements.
OK

>
> 2. While working on the XMPP presence analysis just now, I attempted to
> incorporate the fact that the number of users who are registered with a
> presence service is typically much greater than the number of users who
> have an active presence session with the service. In my experience
> helping to run a fairly large (~300,000 user) consumer-oriented presence
> and messaging service, typically at most 5% of the users are "online" at
> any one time. The number of online users within an enterprise deployment
> is typically higher, on the order or 40% online. To be conservative, in
> the XMPP analysis I have assumed that 10% of the users at a service
> provider deployment are online at any one time and that 50% of the users
> at an enterprise deployment are online at any one time. I do not see
> that this factor has been taken into account in the SIP/SIMPLE analysis
> (though perhaps I am missing something). I think it is extremely
> important to take the registered vs. online factor into account because
> this is the usage pattern that presence systems experience in the real
> world and those who read these presence analyses will quickly be scared
> off if we don't do so (they will just look at the number of users and
> assume that is the number of concurrent presence sessions).

Having 40K watchers between two domains or 20M watchers between two
very big domains does not seem to be that high. Getting official
numbers of number of users and rate of usage is almost impossible so
we did some educated guesses. Recall also that we are not modeling the
usage within a single domain but the numbers between multiple domains.
I think that the numbers are reasonable. Are there specific numbers that
seem to be too high?

>
> 3. The real-world numbers in Section 2.2 ("Assumptions") are helpful,
> but they are incomplete:
>
> 3a. What are the numbers of registered users and concurrent users for
> the "large consumer network"?
>
> 3b. Are the 110 users (consumer network) and 200 users (enterprise) in
> the watch list total users or federated users? Only the number of
> federated users is important for this analysis.
>
> 3c. Why is the peak number of instant messages mentioned for the
> consumer network? This analysis deals only with presence.
>
> 3d. It is mentioned that about 50% of the enterprise users are online at
> any one time. What percentage of the users at the consumer network are
> online at any one time? And (as mentioned) is this kind of percentage
> factored into the calculations?
Numbers here are more for getting the sense of things. I was not able to
get the numbers or everythings since some of these numbers are considered
confidential. I will try to clarify.

>
> 4. The inclusion of full vs. partial notifies, dialog optimizations,
> NOTIFY optimizations, and so on makes the calculations very involved and
> confusing to read (e.g., I have not yet had time to review them all in
> detail). Can they be simplified somehow?
We need to show the effect of various optimizations in SIP. I am not sure
how to simplify this. Will try.
>

> 5. I think it might help to make the scenarios a bit more realistic, at
> least by explaining how a particular scenario might apply in the real
> world (e.g., "this scenario is similar to what might be observed in the
> context of federation between two large service providers"). I have
> tried to do that in version -03 of the XMPP analysis, but we could even
> go farther.

OK

>
> 6. When I attempted to address the issue of real-world relevance, I
> found that several of the scenarios in the XMPP analysis diverged from
> the scenarios in the SIP analysis. I would be happy to work directly
> with the authors of draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis to
> sync up on the scenarios.

Can you elaborate more on this? Maybe we can discuss off-list.
>
> That's it for now.
>
> Peter
>
> --
> Peter Saint-Andre
> https://stpeter.im/
>
> [attachment "smime.p7s" deleted by Avshalom Houri/Haifa/IBM]
> _______________________________________________
> Simple mailing list
> Simple@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple
 --=_alternative 00440DA5C22573F6_=-- --===============1999802100== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============1999802100==-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 06:51:19 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AC9528C7D4; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:51:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.196 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.059, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HoiCFHNAkvVJ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:51:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC97628C30E; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:51:18 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FD1728C3B2 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:51:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V5YFABN9lLXu for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:51:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-mx06.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [192.100.122.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D07828C460 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:51:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh108.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.145]) by mgw-mx06.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id m1LEp2WE005910 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:51:09 +0200 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:50:55 +0200 Received: from esdhcp041109.research.nokia.com ([172.21.41.109]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:50:55 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9mi_Denis-Courmont?= Organization: Nokia TP-SP-SWD To: simple@ietf.org Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:50:56 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200802211650.56365.remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2008 14:50:55.0531 (UTC) FILETIME=[2982B7B0:01C87499] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Subject: [Simple] New draft (sort of): COMEDIA for MSRP X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org Hello, This draft tries to allow negociating the MSRP connection direction, avoidi= ng = the need for MSRP relays, if possible (essentially, it's a very simplified = version of Aki's expired MSRP-ICE): http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-denis-simple-msrp-comedia-01.txt Unfortunately, it could not be presented in Vancouver due to timing = constraints. Feedback welcome. -- = R=E9mi Denis-Courmont _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 10:09:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 256B93A6D0A; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:09:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.653 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.653 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.216, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sK0OCSMjn+s8; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:09:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78B9828CB0F; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:09:01 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD14528CAD9 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:08:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id duT1635KS8Y2 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:08:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from dizzyd.com (dizzyd.com [207.210.219.225]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BEF128C73A for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:08:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from roundabout.local (unknown [198.202.202.20]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by dizzyd.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48EB740340; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:08:17 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <47BDBDF6.6090004@stpeter.im> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:07:50 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.8.1.9) Gecko/20071031 Thunderbird/2.0.0.9 Mnenhy/0.7.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Avshalom Houri References: <478E90E2.3020802@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Simple] WGLC: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-03.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0104718093==" Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --===============0104718093== Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms010207030901090806080909" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms010207030901090806080909 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Avshalom Houri wrote: > Working on version 4. Following is some feedback on what I plan to do. > Appreciate if you can give me feedback ASAP (deadline for drafts this IETF > is Monday 25th). I'm boarding a plane soon so I have only a few minutes to reply... > Peter Saint-Andre wrote on 17/01/2008 01:18:58: > >> Robert Sparks wrote: >>> This is a SIMPLE Working Group Last Call for Comments on >>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain- >> scaling-analysis-03.txt >>> Please review this draft carefully. Provide comments to the editor >>> and/or the list no later than >>> Monday 21 January 2008. >> I think this draft needs further work before it is ready for IETF Last >> Call. As a point of comparison, I have just updated a similar analysis >> for XMPP: >> >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-saintandre-xmpp-presence- >> analysis-03.txt >> >> Herewith some comments. >> >> 1. As I previously expressed on this list, I think it is not a good idea > >> to compare two different technologies in such a document. Therefore I >> have removed any mention of SIP presence from the XMPP analysis (other >> than to point to draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis from my >> I-D), and I suggest that the authors of the SIP/SIMPLE analysis do the >> same. There are just too many differing assumptions and possible >> scenarios to accurately compare two presence technologies in a single >> document (let alone more than two technologies). Therefore I strongly >> suggest the following: >> > > Will remove explicit references to XMPP in the text. > > I am not sure about the removal to "other protocols" in the text. > I do not want to mean XMPP specifically but want to say that even with > all the optimizations that we can of (given SIP base) what should we > expect. So IMHO that is best expressed as "here is how a fully optimized SIP presence technology would perform", not as "here is how some other unmentioned technology would perform". Let the developers of each presence technology try to specify how their technology meets the presence scalability challenge. I think it muddies the waters to address that in this document. >> 1a. Modify the second paragraph of Section 1 ("Introduction") to remove >> references to other presence technologies. >> >> 1b. Remove Section 2.10 ("Other Protocols"). In particular, the >> calculations in this section use SIP terminology, which patently does >> not apply to non-SIP systems. > > I think that it is important. I may need to change the language to make > it more eplicit that what we mean here that with all optimizations that > we can think of we still get X messages and Y bytes. Right. So let's describe this as "fully optimized SIP presence with all the improvements we currently envision", not as the performance of any other given presence technology no matter how that technology is defined. I agree that there are probably general issues that apply to any presence technology (since presence is a matter of pushing out fairly frequent updates to a relatively large number of interested parties), but I think those issues should be abstracted from the treatment of each presence technology. >> 1c. Remove the fourth bullet-point in Section 7 ("Conclusions"). In >> particular, during discussion on this list the claims in this paragraph >> were shown to be seriously misleading or false. > > Agree. Will rephrase and remove XMPP. I probably should not have put it > there in the > first place. Well I made the same mistake in version -01 of the XMPP analysis, so don't worry about "should not have". > What do you think about adding the following paragraph somewhere in the > text: > > "The calculations here are based on the assumption that all data is > carried in bound of the > protocol and no optimizations that enable getting the presence information > via out bound means > are taken into account. These optimizations may improve the number of > messages and number of bytes > significantly but they are out of scope for this document" That seems reasonable. >> 1d. In several places the analysis claims to apply not just to >> SIP/SIMPLE presence systems but to presence systems built using any >> possible presence technology. Extreme care should be taken when making >> such statements. > > OK I think I expressed this concern more clearly above. It's a matter of abstracting from many instances of presence technologies (SIP/SIMPLE, XMPP, IMPS, all the IM services out there, etc.), not assuming that what applies to one of those technologies applies to all. And note that many people with significant experience with presence technologies don't even pay attention to this list (or at least I never see posts from folks at Skype, Yahoo!, MSN, AIM, etc.), so generalizing too quickly might not be a good idea. :) >> 2. While working on the XMPP presence analysis just now, I attempted to >> incorporate the fact that the number of users who are registered with a >> presence service is typically much greater than the number of users who >> have an active presence session with the service. In my experience >> helping to run a fairly large (~300,000 user) consumer-oriented presence >> and messaging service, typically at most 5% of the users are "online" at >> any one time. The number of online users within an enterprise deployment >> is typically higher, on the order or 40% online. To be conservative, in >> the XMPP analysis I have assumed that 10% of the users at a service >> provider deployment are online at any one time and that 50% of the users >> at an enterprise deployment are online at any one time. I do not see >> that this factor has been taken into account in the SIP/SIMPLE analysis >> (though perhaps I am missing something). I think it is extremely >> important to take the registered vs. online factor into account because >> this is the usage pattern that presence systems experience in the real >> world and those who read these presence analyses will quickly be scared >> off if we don't do so (they will just look at the number of users and >> assume that is the number of concurrent presence sessions). > > Having 40K watchers between two domains or 20M watchers between two > very big domains does not seem to be that high. Getting official > numbers of number of users and rate of usage is almost impossible so > we did some educated guesses. Recall also that we are not modeling the > usage within a single domain but the numbers between multiple domains. > I think that the numbers are reasonable. Are there specific numbers that > seem to be too high? My concern is that we need to address the fact that only a certain percentage of the users are online at any one time. If someone who is not deeply familiar with the terminology of watchers etc. looks at these documents, they may think "oh I suppose a watcher is a registered user instead of a connected users". So I think we want to make that a bit clearer. Basically I'm just trying to forestall potential confusion. >> 3. The real-world numbers in Section 2.2 ("Assumptions") are helpful, >> but they are incomplete: >> >> 3a. What are the numbers of registered users and concurrent users for >> the "large consumer network"? >> >> 3b. Are the 110 users (consumer network) and 200 users (enterprise) in >> the watch list total users or federated users? Only the number of >> federated users is important for this analysis. >> >> 3c. Why is the peak number of instant messages mentioned for the >> consumer network? This analysis deals only with presence. >> >> 3d. It is mentioned that about 50% of the enterprise users are online at >> any one time. What percentage of the users at the consumer network are >> online at any one time? And (as mentioned) is this kind of percentage >> factored into the calculations? > > Numbers here are more for getting the sense of things. I was not able to > get the numbers or everythings since some of these numbers are considered > confidential. I will try to clarify. Well, the numbers don't have to be exactly what a given service sees, only realistic numbers for that type of service. >> 4. The inclusion of full vs. partial notifies, dialog optimizations, >> NOTIFY optimizations, and so on makes the calculations very involved and >> confusing to read (e.g., I have not yet had time to review them all in >> detail). Can they be simplified somehow? > > We need to show the effect of various optimizations in SIP. I am not sure > how to simplify this. Will try. Yes, it's difficult. I'm sorry that I don't have more helpful suggestions. >> 5. I think it might help to make the scenarios a bit more realistic, at >> least by explaining how a particular scenario might apply in the real >> world (e.g., "this scenario is similar to what might be observed in the >> context of federation between two large service providers"). I have >> tried to do that in version -03 of the XMPP analysis, but we could even >> go farther. > > OK > >> 6. When I attempted to address the issue of real-world relevance, I >> found that several of the scenarios in the XMPP analysis diverged from >> the scenarios in the SIP analysis. I would be happy to work directly >> with the authors of draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis to >> sync up on the scenarios. > > Can you elaborate more on this? Maybe we can discuss off-list. Please see the most recent version of the XMPP analysis I performed. Unfortunately I am out of time so elaborate more fully, I'll try to do that on-list or off-list soon. 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Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============0104718093==-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 24 00:42:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28AB33A6860; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:42:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.467 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.467 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b+-hnG6RNf9C; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:42:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 454B03A6879; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:42:35 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AB9E3A6860 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:42:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lSOiYAB9Tz+B for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-mx03.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [192.100.122.230]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AC103A63CB for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:42:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh106.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.213]) by mgw-mx03.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id m1O8g8K4006441; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 10:42:13 +0200 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh106.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 24 Feb 2008 10:42:11 +0200 Received: from esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.177]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 24 Feb 2008 10:42:11 +0200 Received: from [10.162.90.18] ([10.162.90.18]) by esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 24 Feb 2008 10:42:10 +0200 Message-ID: <47C12DE2.8040008@nsn.com> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 10:42:10 +0200 From: Miguel Garcia User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Qian Sun References: <005601c872c2$5f4553e0$90cb550a@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <005601c872c2$5f4553e0$90cb550a@china.huawei.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Feb 2008 08:42:10.0952 (UTC) FILETIME=[25792080:01C876C1] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Cc: "'Tschofenig Hannes \(NSN - FI/Espoo\)'" , 'SIMPLE mailing list' , 'Henning Schulzrinne' Subject: Re: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org Hi Qian: Yes, an LCP server can publish the presentity's PIDF-LO to the presence server. The problem here is that, under normal circumstances, the presence server will not merge this PIDF-LO with the current presentity's PIDF, because the presentity didn't publish location information in the first place, so presumably it doesn't even have presence authorization rules, etc. /Miguel Qian Sun wrote: > Hi, > > Could LCP Server as a presence source directly PUBLISH presentity's > location value to Presence Server? Presence Server can compose a merged > PIDF document including presence information from different sources. > > Cheers, > Qian > > -----Original Message----- > From: simple-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:simple-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Miguel Garcia > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 10:12 PM > To: SIMPLE mailing list > Cc: Tschofenig Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo); Henning Schulzrinne > Subject: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft > > Hi: > > We have just submitted a draft that discusses the issue of indirect > publication. The first part of the draft focuses on location URIs, so, > perhaps it is of not much interest to the SIMPLE WG. > > Filename: draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-publish > Revision: 00 > Title: Indirect Presence Publication with the Session Initiation > Protocol(SIP) > Creation_date: 2008-02-18 > WG ID: Independent Submission > Number_of_pages: 12 > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-pu > blish-00.txt > > Comments are welcome. > > /Miguel -- Miguel A. Garcia tel:+358-50-4804586 Nokia Siemens Networks Espoo, Finland _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 24 08:07:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14F483A6A97; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:07:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.564, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x5xm3WmGuF+D; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:07:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 291063A6A3A; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:07:38 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F09113A6A3A for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:07:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dhI3fjdTD0Jb for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:07:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com (rtp-iport-2.cisco.com [64.102.122.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13B643A6A97 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:07:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Feb 2008 11:07:26 -0500 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m1OG7Rm1029767 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:07:27 -0500 Received: from xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-201.cisco.com [64.102.31.12]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id m1OG7QJR022837 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:07:26 GMT Received: from xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.21]) by xbh-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:07:26 -0500 Received: from [10.82.240.196] ([10.82.240.196]) by xfe-rtp-202.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:07:26 -0500 Message-ID: <47C19634.7070901@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:07:16 -0500 From: Jonathan Rosenberg User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Simple WG X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Feb 2008 16:07:26.0646 (UTC) FILETIME=[59448560:01C876FF] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1012; t=1203869247; x=1204733247; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jdrosen@cisco.com; z=From:=20Jonathan=20Rosenberg=20 |Subject:=20Updated=20SIMPLE=20made=20simple=20draft |Sender:=20 |To:=20Simple=20WG=20; bh=mNYAFe3BuUWgyLsJjLB5+SxpU/ue1PAxGfI8U9AxwfY=; b=QgxkxfFn6+IvMuS4wnwEWm2KTezfZcTIkIV5MinUo+DgVZDiV5Z3sNvMak 5Llx/XPkRSKuHcTSnXXTroWWI6V7KXHupKNLfB9Pyw32WOY9iC//MFPxnwLL bwlfI+dP5M; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=jdrosen@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); Subject: [Simple] Updated SIMPLE made simple draft X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org Available at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-simple-02.txt Changes: * updated reference style to match SIP hitchhikers * draft-ietf-simple-presence-rules -> RFC5025 * replaced draft-ietf-sip-xcap-config with draft-ietf-sip-xcapevent * draft-garcia-simple-presence-dictionary -> RFC 5112 * added new section on federation, and to it, added: draft-ietf-speermint-consolidated-presence-im-usecases draft-ietf-simple-presence-scaling-analysis draft-rosenberg-simple-intradomain-federation draft-rosenberg-simple-view-sharing (the latter two have SIMPLE WG -00s coming but those got delayed due to manual posting from the secretariat) Thanks, Jonathan R. -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 499 Thornall St. Cisco Fellow Edison, NJ 08837 Cisco, Voice Technology Group jdrosen@cisco.com http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (408) 902-3084 http://www.cisco.com _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 24 08:15:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB2A028C33A; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:15:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.584 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.584 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TRbUcvJZ-sen; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:15:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2460A28C179; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:15:04 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@ietf.org Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 7F93028C154; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:15:01 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: <20080224161501.7F93028C154@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:15:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: [Simple] I-D Action:draft-ietf-simple-simple-02.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : SIMPLE made Simple: An Overview of the IETF Specifications for Instant Messaging and Presence using the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Author(s) : J. Rosenberg Filename : draft-ietf-simple-simple-02.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2008-02-24 The IETF has produced many specifications related to Presence and Instant Messaging with the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP). Collectively, these specifications are known as SIMPLE - SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions. This document serves as a guide to the SIMPLE suite of specifications. It breaks them up into categories and explains what each is for and how they relate to each other. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-simple-02.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-simple-simple-02.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-simple-02.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-02-24080623.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-simple-02.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-simple-simple-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-02-24080623.I-D\@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --NextPart-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 24 22:15:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C261228C519; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:15:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.58 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.58 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id di-HoIQwpfur; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:15:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0956B28C275; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:15:04 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@ietf.org Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 8EBC33A6C0B; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:15:01 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: <20080225061501.8EBC33A6C0B@core3.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:15:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: [Simple] I-D Action:draft-ietf-simple-xcap-diff-08.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : An Extensible Markup Language (XML) Document Format for Indicating A Change in XML Configuration Access Protocol (XCAP) Resources Author(s) : J. Rosenberg, J. Urpalainen Filename : draft-ietf-simple-xcap-diff-08.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2008-02-24 This specification defines a document format that can be used to indicate that a change has occurred in a document managed by the Extensible Markup Language (XML) Configuration Access Protocol (XCAP). This format indicates the document that has changed and its former and new entity tags. It also can indicate the specific change that was made in the document, using an XML patch format. This format allows also indications of element and attribute content of an XML document. XCAP diff documents can be delivered to clients using a number of means, including a Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) event package. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-xcap-diff-08.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-simple-xcap-diff-08.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-xcap-diff-08.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-02-24220942.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-xcap-diff-08.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-simple-xcap-diff-08.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-02-24220942.I-D\@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --NextPart-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 25 08:15:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EB6B28C41B; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:15:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.232 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.232 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.795, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qyzR6bLLJdfB; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:15:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66E913A6B4B; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:14:23 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50DFF3A68ED for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:14:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wTRkBAa73zhW for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:14:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mtagate5.de.ibm.com (mtagate5.de.ibm.com [195.212.29.154]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6292B3A6CF6 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:13:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate5.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id m1PGDI1C076102 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:13:18 GMT Received: from d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.228]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.7) with ESMTP id m1PGDIZI2277394 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:13:18 +0100 Received: from d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m1PGDISD017337 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:13:18 GMT Received: from d12mc102.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12mc102.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.114]) by d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m1PGDIJn017333 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:13:18 GMT In-Reply-To: References: <478C9D33.8070304@entel.upc.es> <47BDBE04.7000303@entel.upc.es> <47C2D364.5060404@entel.upc.es> To: simple mailing list MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: DDE757C8:C4349198-C22573FA:0058D8F6; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 8.0NP August 02, 2007 From: Avshalom Houri Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:13:16 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D12MC102/12/M/IBM(Release 8.0|August 02, 2007) at 25/02/2008 18:13:17, Serialize complete at 25/02/2008 18:13:17 Subject: [Simple] Submissions of: draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-04.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1085288595==" Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============1085288595== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0059185DC22573FA_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0059185DC22573FA_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-04.txt Changes in version 04 o Fixed mistake in the formula of I07 and S08 (RLMI was not included). Affect on total number of bytes was very small. o Fixed mistake in the text of the calculation of number of bytes for S08 for non dialog optimization. No actual change in number of bytes since the excel file calculations were done correctly. o Removed general references throughout the text to "other protocols". This was done in order to avoid the impression that the document tries to compare SIP protocol with any other presence base protocol. o Several other editorial and clarification changes --Avshalom --=_alternative 0059185DC22573FA_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-04.txt

 Changes in version 04

   o  Fixed mistake in the formula of I07 and S08 (RLMI was not
      included).  Affect on total number of bytes was very small.
   o  Fixed mistake in the text of the calculation of number of bytes
      for S08 for non dialog optimization.  No actual change in number
      of bytes since the excel file calculations were done correctly.
   o  Removed general references throughout the text to "other
      protocols".  This was done in order to avoid the impression that
      the document tries to compare SIP protocol with any other presence
      base protocol.
   o  Several other editorial and clarification changes

--Avshalom




 --=_alternative 0059185DC22573FA_=-- --===============1085288595== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============1085288595==-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 25 08:16:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C51DC28C37C; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:16:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.584 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.584 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gbjWZtBFrBYQ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:16:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFCDD28C4D0; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:15:02 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@ietf.org Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 76DBA28C4B2; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:15:01 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: <20080225161501.76DBA28C4B2@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:15:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: [Simple] I-D Action:draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-04.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : Presence Interdomain Scaling Analysis for SIP/SIMPLE Author(s) : A. Houri, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-04.txt Pages : 60 Date : 2008-02-25 The document analyzes the traffic that is generated due to presence subscriptions between domains. It is shown that the amount of traffic can be extremely big. In addition to the very large traffic the document also analyzes the affects of a large presence system on the memory footprint and the CPU load. Current approved and in work optimizations to the SIP protocol are analyzed with the possible impact on the load. Separate documents contain the requirements for optimizations and suggestions for new optimizations. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-04.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-02-25080743.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-simple-interdomain-scaling-analysis-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-02-25080743.I-D\@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --NextPart-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 26 08:23:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4521028C319; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:23:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.147 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.147 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.416, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UPOz2Ozp0Hba; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:23:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65A0C3A6CC9; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:23:41 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF9DC28C3D9 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:23:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UJu+orZUrNjm for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:23:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE81728C319 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:23:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.3.232] (vicuna-alt.estacado.net [75.53.54.121]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1QGNQgs019571 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:23:28 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) To: simple mailing list Message-Id: <8B237788-2128-4D9D-A6AA-D079C07CD23D@nostrum.com> From: Robert Sparks Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:23:26 -0600 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753) Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 75.53.54.121 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6003/Tue Feb 26 05:34:31 2008 on shaman.nostrum.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: simple-ads@tools.ietf.org, Simple Chairs Subject: [Simple] Strawman agenda: SIMPLE@IETF71 X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0046358446==" Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org --===============0046358446== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-13-250023186 --Apple-Mail-13-250023186 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Here's a first cut at an agenda for Philidelphia. If I've missed anything obvious please let me know ASAP. I haven't put the scaling analysis work on the agenda - that conversation seems to be winding up fine using the list. Let me know if you disagree. SIMPLE - Tuesday 17:40-18:40 (60 minutes) 5m Administrivia chairs 20m Chat Geir draft-ietf-simple-chat-02 10m View Sharing Jonathan draft-ietf-simple-view-sharing-00 10m Intradomain Federation Jonathan draft-ietf-simple-intradomain-federation-00 10m Text transmission Gunnar draft-hellstrom-simple-text-transmission-00 --Apple-Mail-13-250023186 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Here's a first cut at an agenda = for Philidelphia.
If I've missed anything obvious please let me know = ASAP.

I = haven't put the scaling analysis work on the agenda - that conversation = seems to be winding up fine using the list.
Let me know if you = disagree.

SIMPLE - Tuesday 17:40-18:40 (60 = minutes) =
5m = Administrivia chairs
20m Chat Geir
= draft-ietf-simple-chat-02
10m View Sharing = Jonathan
= draft-ietf-simple-view-sharing-00
10m Intradomain Federation = Jonathan
= draft-ietf-simple-intradomain-federation-00 =
10m Text = transmission = Gunnar
= draft-hellstrom-simple-text-transmission-00 =

= --Apple-Mail-13-250023186-- --===============0046358446== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============0046358446==-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 26 09:45:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B145F3A6C51; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:45:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YCpWBgPV9FsT; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:45:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C37533A6C79; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:45:04 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@ietf.org Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id A314D28C17E; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:45:01 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: <20080226174501.A314D28C17E@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:45:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: [Simple] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-simple-view-sharing-00.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : Optimizing Federated Presence with View Sharing Author(s) : J. Rosenberg, S. Donovan, K. McMurry Filename : draft-ietf-simple-view-sharing-00.txt Pages : 30 Date : 2008-2-21 Presence federation refers to the exchange of presence information between systems. One of the primary challenges in presence federation is scale. With a large number of watchers in one domain obtaining presence for many presentities in another, the amount of notification traffic is large. This document describes an extension to the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) event framework, called view sharing. View sharing can substantially reduce the amount of traffic, but requires a certain level of trust between domains. View sharing allows the amount of presence traffic between domains to achieve the theoretical lower bound on information exchange in any presence system. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-view-sharing-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-simple-view-sharing-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 26 09:45:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD7928C766; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:45:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.587 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.587 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qXSHtqM3RUhr; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:45:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 182DE28C728; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:45:16 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@ietf.org Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id B646C28C1D4; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:45:01 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: <20080226174501.B646C28C1D4@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:45:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: [Simple] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-simple-intradomain-federation-00.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions Working Group of the IETF. Title : Models for Intra-Domain Presence Federation Author(s) : J. Rosenberg, A. Houri Filename : draft-ietf-simple-intradomain-federation-00.txt Pages : 38 Date : 2008-2-21 Presence federation involves the sharing of presence information across multiple presence systems. Most often, presence federation is assumed to be between different organizations, such as between two enterprises or between and enterprise and a service provider. However, federation can occur within a single organization or domain. This can be the result of a multi-vendor network, or a consequence of a large organization that requires partitioning. This document examines different use cases and models for intra-domain federation. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-simple-intradomain-federation-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-simple-intradomain-federation-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 26 10:21:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D70C23A6DAC; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:21:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.482 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.482 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.045, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4eUu6DdtepOC; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:21:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD3A73A6D4B; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:21:30 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69A053A6CC8 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:21:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AlRWPG6YYN-r for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:21:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143A33A6D92 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:21:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.3.232] (vicuna-alt.estacado.net [75.53.54.121]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1QILFYx026544 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:21:15 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) Message-Id: <97FE6BB0-0769-4A8D-80B1-A99BF2E6690A@nostrum.com> From: Robert Sparks Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:21:14 -0600 To: simple mailing list X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753) Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 75.53.54.121 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6003/Tue Feb 26 05:34:31 2008 on shaman.nostrum.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Cc: simple-ads@tools.ietf.org, Avshalom Houri Subject: [Simple] next steps on scaling analysis X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org Folks - You've hopefully seen the tweaks to the scaling document Avshalom's made in response to last call comments. He and I are of the opinion that the changes aren't of the nature that require a re-last call and are planning to request publication soon. If you don't believe that's the right thing to do, please send us a note now. RjS _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 26 23:54:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB16D28C49B; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:54:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.743 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.743 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.306, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mRvVOzYgHACF; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:54:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C4C28C10E; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:54:09 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB99728C10E for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:54:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H5m9pCExWjOs for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:54:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (mailgw3.ericsson.se [193.180.251.60]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E293D3A67F9 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 305A821330; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:48:45 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-ae0bbbb000007e19-06-47c515dd1cf0 Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.124]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 1364E21325; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:48:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.171]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:26:23 +0100 Received: from mail.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.50]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:26:22 +0100 Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.33.3]) by mail.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6F1C2461; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:26:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97B544DC65; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:26:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110A64DC64; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:26:22 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <47C5109D.4020107@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:26:21 +0200 From: Salvatore Loreto User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (X11/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Miguel Garcia References: <005601c872c2$5f4553e0$90cb550a@china.huawei.com> <47C12DE2.8040008@nsn.com> In-Reply-To: <47C12DE2.8040008@nsn.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2008 07:26:23.0014 (UTC) FILETIME=[0DEE1C60:01C87912] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Cc: 'Henning Schulzrinne' , "'Tschofenig Hannes \(NSN - FI/Espoo\)'" , 'SIMPLE mailing list' Subject: Re: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org Hi Miguel, surely I am missing something, but if it is only a presence authorization rules problem, then the presentity should in some way authorize the presence server to receive information, better location information, from a specific LCP server and then let the LCP server directly PUBLISH presentity's location value to Presence Server. /Sal Miguel Garcia wrote: > Hi Qian: > > Yes, an LCP server can publish the presentity's PIDF-LO to the presence > server. The problem here is that, under normal circumstances, the > presence server will not merge this PIDF-LO with the current > presentity's PIDF, because the presentity didn't publish location > information in the first place, so presumably it doesn't even have > presence authorization rules, etc. > > /Miguel > > > Qian Sun wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Could LCP Server as a presence source directly PUBLISH presentity's >> location value to Presence Server? Presence Server can compose a merged >> PIDF document including presence information from different sources. >> >> Cheers, >> Qian >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: simple-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:simple-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >> Miguel Garcia >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 10:12 PM >> To: SIMPLE mailing list >> Cc: Tschofenig Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo); Henning Schulzrinne >> Subject: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft >> >> Hi: >> >> We have just submitted a draft that discusses the issue of indirect >> publication. The first part of the draft focuses on location URIs, so, >> perhaps it is of not much interest to the SIMPLE WG. >> >> Filename: draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-publish >> Revision: 00 >> Title: Indirect Presence Publication with the Session Initiation >> Protocol(SIP) >> Creation_date: 2008-02-18 >> WG ID: Independent Submission >> Number_of_pages: 12 >> >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-pu >> blish-00.txt >> >> Comments are welcome. >> >> /Miguel >> > > _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 27 00:08:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2721B3A6DCB; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:08:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.058, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VzpbKnf9dH3R; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:08:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3720728C0E9; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:08:49 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F7028C0E9 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:08:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M35GaMWrAWCJ for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:08:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-mx09.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [192.100.105.134]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E0D33A6D80 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:08:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh107.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.143]) by mgw-mx09.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id m1R89ugo030793; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 02:09:57 -0600 Received: from esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.33]) by esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:08:14 +0200 Received: from esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.177]) by esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:08:14 +0200 Received: from [10.144.23.25] ([10.144.23.25]) by esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:08:14 +0200 Message-ID: <47C51A6E.8000208@nsn.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:08:14 +0200 From: Miguel Garcia User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Salvatore Loreto References: <005601c872c2$5f4553e0$90cb550a@china.huawei.com> <47C12DE2.8040008@nsn.com> <47C5109D.4020107@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <47C5109D.4020107@ericsson.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2008 08:08:14.0270 (UTC) FILETIME=[E6C15DE0:01C87917] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Cc: 'Henning Schulzrinne' , "'Tschofenig Hannes \(NSN - FI/Espoo\)'" , 'SIMPLE mailing list' Subject: Re: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org To make this work like you said, you will need: - A mechanism for authorizing external parties to do publications on your behalf. I am not sure if we have such mechanism in place. - A mechanism for instructing the presence server to switch on/off your location information towards watchers. We do have this mechanism, and it is presence authorization rules. So, if in my device I have some UI entry that indicates "toggle location information", when I act upon it, the device will change the presence authorization rules. What I am proposing is that the "toggle location information" in the UI will trigger a new (partial) PUBLISH from the presentity. I think it matches better with the general architecture of the presentity providing his location. /Miguel Salvatore Loreto wrote: > Hi Miguel, > > surely I am missing something, > but if it is only a presence authorization rules problem, then the > presentity should in some way authorize the > presence server to receive information, better location information, > from a specific LCP server > and then let the LCP server directly PUBLISH presentity's location value > to Presence Server. > > /Sal > > Miguel Garcia wrote: >> Hi Qian: >> >> Yes, an LCP server can publish the presentity's PIDF-LO to the >> presence server. The problem here is that, under normal circumstances, >> the presence server will not merge this PIDF-LO with the current >> presentity's PIDF, because the presentity didn't publish location >> information in the first place, so presumably it doesn't even have >> presence authorization rules, etc. >> >> /Miguel >> >> >> Qian Sun wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Could LCP Server as a presence source directly PUBLISH presentity's >>> location value to Presence Server? Presence Server can compose a merged >>> PIDF document including presence information from different sources. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Qian >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: simple-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:simple-bounces@ietf.org] On >>> Behalf Of >>> Miguel Garcia >>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 10:12 PM >>> To: SIMPLE mailing list >>> Cc: Tschofenig Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo); Henning Schulzrinne >>> Subject: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft >>> >>> Hi: >>> >>> We have just submitted a draft that discusses the issue of indirect >>> publication. The first part of the draft focuses on location URIs, so, >>> perhaps it is of not much interest to the SIMPLE WG. >>> >>> Filename: draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-publish >>> Revision: 00 >>> Title: Indirect Presence Publication with the Session >>> Initiation Protocol(SIP) >>> Creation_date: 2008-02-18 >>> WG ID: Independent Submission >>> Number_of_pages: 12 >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-pu >>> >>> blish-00.txt >>> >>> Comments are welcome. >>> >>> /Miguel >>> >> >> > -- Miguel A. Garcia tel:+358-50-4804586 Nokia Siemens Networks Espoo, Finland _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 27 02:29:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53E6C28C4F0; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 02:29:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.508 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.508 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.071, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lqAXlEOQlD2g; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 02:29:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 459353A69FE; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 02:29:39 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBBB63A69FE for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 02:29:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mqYt2Lw6OWsW for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 02:29:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (mailgw3.ericsson.se [193.180.251.60]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C2323A6887 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 02:29:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id D1C30207EA; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:11:40 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-b00bfbb000007e19-3b-47c5375cb404 Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.121]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id AAB4F21950; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:11:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.170]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:11:39 +0100 Received: from mail.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.50]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:11:39 +0100 Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.33.3]) by mail.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3E2926FC; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:11:39 +0200 (EET) Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5142F4DC65; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:11:39 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD8834DC64; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:11:38 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <47C5375A.5000806@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:11:38 +0200 From: Salvatore Loreto User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Sparks References: <8B237788-2128-4D9D-A6AA-D079C07CD23D@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <8B237788-2128-4D9D-A6AA-D079C07CD23D@nostrum.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2008 10:11:40.0037 (UTC) FILETIME=[24EFBB50:01C87929] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Cc: simple-ads@tools.ietf.org, Simple Chairs , simple mailing list Subject: Re: [Simple] Strawman agenda: SIMPLE@IETF71 X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0582263005==" Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0582263005== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090007030504020808000905" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090007030504020808000905 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Robert, last month I submitted the following draft: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/simple/draft-loreto-simple-im-srv-label-00.txt It only registers with the IANA a new Instant Messaging SRV Protocol Label registry for SIP/SIMPLE protocols, in order to solve the fact discussed within this mailing list a couple of months ago that only XMPP is recorded in the IANA registries for IM Protocol and Presence Protocols, but SIP/SIMPLE is not. I don't think it is controversial and needs to be discussed during the f2f meeting, however I think it should be presented as a single slide within the WG chair deck. regards Sal Robert Sparks wrote: > Here's a first cut at an agenda for Philidelphia. > If I've missed anything obvious please let me know ASAP. > > I haven't put the scaling analysis work on the agenda - that > conversation seems to be winding up fine using the list. > Let me know if you disagree. > > SIMPLE - Tuesday 17:40-18:40 (60 minutes) > 5m Administrivia chairs > 20m Chat Geir > draft-ietf-simple-chat-02 > 10m View Sharing Jonathan > draft-ietf-simple-view-sharing-00 > 10m Intradomain Federation Jonathan > draft-ietf-simple-intradomain-federation-00 > 10m Text transmission Gunnar > draft-hellstrom-simple-text-transmission-00 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Simple mailing list > Simple@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple > --------------090007030504020808000905 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Robert,

last month I submitted the following draft:
http://tools.ietf.org/wg/simple/draft-loreto-simple-im-srv-label-00.txt

It only registers with the IANA a new Instant Messaging SRV Protocol Label registry
for SIP/SIMPLE protocols, in order to solve the fact discussed within this mailing list a couple of months ago
that only XMPP is recorded in the IANA registries for IM Protocol and Presence Protocols, but SIP/SIMPLE is not.

I don't think it is controversial and needs to be discussed during the f2f meeting,
however I think it should be presented as a single slide within the WG chair deck.

regards
Sal


Robert Sparks wrote:
Here's a first cut at an agenda for Philidelphia.
If I've missed anything obvious please let me know ASAP.

I haven't put the scaling analysis work on the agenda - that conversation seems to be winding up fine using the list.
Let me know if you disagree.

SIMPLE - Tuesday 17:40-18:40 (60 minutes)
5m Administrivia chairs
20m Chat Geir
draft-ietf-simple-chat-02
10m View Sharing Jonathan
draft-ietf-simple-view-sharing-00
10m Intradomain Federation Jonathan
draft-ietf-simple-intradomain-federation-00
10m Text transmission Gunnar
draft-hellstrom-simple-text-transmission-00 


_______________________________________________
Simple mailing list
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--------------090007030504020808000905-- --===============0582263005== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============0582263005==-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 27 03:17:14 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB01E28C3A0; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:17:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.913 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.913 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.476, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t7FmRGbiuwsa; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:17:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22B33A68BB; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:17:12 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 621173A6870 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:17:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DDgyN3ao3fZo for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:17:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (mailgw3.ericsson.se [193.180.251.60]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEA3E3A6C52 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:17:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id DDBEA224B3; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:55:20 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-af8bebb000007e19-8e-47c54198662f Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.121]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id AC091224A9; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:55:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.170]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:55:20 +0100 Received: from mail.lmf.ericsson.se ([131.160.11.50]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:55:19 +0100 Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.33.3]) by mail.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AD5D2714; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:55:19 +0200 (EET) Received: from nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 309244DC65; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:55:19 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by nomadiclab.lmf.ericsson.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9CCC4DC64; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:55:18 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <47C54196.6040006@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:55:18 +0200 From: Salvatore Loreto User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.12 (X11/20080213) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Miguel Garcia References: <005601c872c2$5f4553e0$90cb550a@china.huawei.com> <47C12DE2.8040008@nsn.com> <47C5109D.4020107@ericsson.com> <47C51A6E.8000208@nsn.com> In-Reply-To: <47C51A6E.8000208@nsn.com> X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2008 10:55:19.0913 (UTC) FILETIME=[3E811590:01C8792F] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Cc: 'Henning Schulzrinne' , "'Tschofenig Hannes \(NSN - FI/Espoo\)'" , 'SIMPLE mailing list' Subject: Re: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org Hi, in line /Sal Miguel Garcia wrote: > To make this work like you said, you will need: > > - A mechanism for authorizing external parties to do publications on > your behalf. I am not sure if we have such mechanism in place. [Sal] I am not sure we have such mechanism, too. However, as other standardization bodies (3GGP and OMA) are thinking to insert a PNA (Presence Network Agent) maybe we should start to think of a mechanism like this. see also this draft: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/simple/draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt > > - A mechanism for instructing the presence server to switch on/off > your location information towards watchers. We do have this mechanism, > and it is presence authorization rules. So, if in my device I have > some UI entry that indicates "toggle location information", when I act > upon it, the device will change the presence authorization rules. > > What I am proposing is that the "toggle location information" in the > UI will trigger a new (partial) PUBLISH from the presentity. I think > it matches better with the general architecture of the presentity > providing his location. [Sal] Of course what I am suggesting would require some form of authorization mechanism, and people could start to argue about the complexity of the delegation mechanism. However also in your proposal, you want to change in some way the Presence Server behavior and let it to change/update the presence information not only when it receives a PUBLISH, but also via the de-reference mechanism. > > /Miguel > > Salvatore Loreto wrote: >> Hi Miguel, >> >> surely I am missing something, >> but if it is only a presence authorization rules problem, then the >> presentity should in some way authorize the >> presence server to receive information, better location information, >> from a specific LCP server >> and then let the LCP server directly PUBLISH presentity's location >> value to Presence Server. >> >> /Sal >> >> Miguel Garcia wrote: >>> Hi Qian: >>> >>> Yes, an LCP server can publish the presentity's PIDF-LO to the >>> presence server. The problem here is that, under normal >>> circumstances, the presence server will not merge this PIDF-LO with >>> the current presentity's PIDF, because the presentity didn't publish >>> location information in the first place, so presumably it doesn't >>> even have presence authorization rules, etc. >>> >>> /Miguel >>> >>> >>> Qian Sun wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Could LCP Server as a presence source directly PUBLISH presentity's >>>> location value to Presence Server? Presence Server can compose a >>>> merged >>>> PIDF document including presence information from different sources. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Qian >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: simple-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:simple-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>> Behalf Of >>>> Miguel Garcia >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 10:12 PM >>>> To: SIMPLE mailing list >>>> Cc: Tschofenig Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo); Henning Schulzrinne >>>> Subject: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft >>>> >>>> Hi: >>>> >>>> We have just submitted a draft that discusses the issue of indirect >>>> publication. The first part of the draft focuses on location URIs, so, >>>> perhaps it is of not much interest to the SIMPLE WG. >>>> >>>> Filename: draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-publish >>>> Revision: 00 >>>> Title: Indirect Presence Publication with the Session >>>> Initiation Protocol(SIP) >>>> Creation_date: 2008-02-18 >>>> WG ID: Independent Submission >>>> Number_of_pages: 12 >>>> >>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-pu >>>> >>>> blish-00.txt >>>> >>>> Comments are welcome. >>>> >>>> /Miguel >>>> >>> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 27 06:46:38 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E165B28C291; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:46:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.293 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.293 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.270, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yuD-qjqhME0z; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:46:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BECD93A69E3; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:46:37 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63EC03A69E3 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:46:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ou5oBz9QAXdB for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:46:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (nostrum-pt.tunnel.tserv2.fmt.ipv6.he.net [IPv6:2001:470:1f03:267::2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6420C3A6810 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.235] (pool-71-164-169-219.dllstx.fios.verizon.net [71.164.169.219]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m1REkLAu092644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:46:22 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from rjsparks@nostrum.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753) To: simple mailing list Message-Id: References: <200802211650.56365.remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com> From: Robert Sparks Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:46:22 -0600 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753) Received-SPF: pass (nostrum.com: 71.164.169.219 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.92.1/6010/Wed Feb 27 06:54:14 2008 on shaman.nostrum.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Subject: [Simple] Fwd: New draft (sort of): COMEDIA for MSRP X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0726415313==" Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org --===============0726415313== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-23-330599278 --Apple-Mail-23-330599278 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Folks - I currently don't have this draft on the agenda for Philadelphia - =20 there hasn't been any on-list discussion. Please look this draft over and comment. R=E9mi =20= also sent a presentation to the list back around the Vancouver meeting you can =20 find in the archives. RjS Begin forwarded message: > From: R=E9mi Denis-Courmont > Date: February 21, 2008 8:50:56 AM CST > To: simple@ietf.org > Subject: [Simple] New draft (sort of): COMEDIA for MSRP > > Hello, > > This draft tries to allow negociating the MSRP connection =20 > direction, avoiding > the need for MSRP relays, if possible (essentially, it's a very =20 > simplified > version of Aki's expired MSRP-ICE): > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-denis-simple-msrp-=20 > comedia-01.txt > > Unfortunately, it could not be presented in Vancouver due to timing > constraints. Feedback welcome. > > --=20 > R=E9mi Denis-Courmont > _______________________________________________ > Simple mailing list > Simple@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --Apple-Mail-23-330599278 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Folks -

I = currently don't have this draft on the agenda for Philadelphia - there = hasn't been
any on-list discussion. Please look this draft = over and comment.=A0R=E9mi also sent a
presentation to the = list back around the Vancouver meeting you can find in the = archives.

RjS

Begin forwarded = message:

From: R=E9mi Denis-Courmont <remi.denis-courmont@nokia.co= m>
Date: February 21, 2008 8:50:56 AM = CST
Subject: = [Simple] New draft (sort of): COMEDIA for = MSRP

=
Hello,

This = draft tries to allow negociating the MSRP connection direction, = avoiding=A0
the need for MSRP relays, if possible (essentially, = it's a very simplified=A0
version = of Aki's expired MSRP-ICE):


Unfortunately, it could not be presented in = Vancouver due to timing=A0

--=A0
R=E9mi = Denis-Courmont
Simple mailing list
=

= --Apple-Mail-23-330599278-- --===============0726415313== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============0726415313==-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 27 19:24:44 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3104A28C535; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:24:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.966 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.966 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.844, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BFUqjAbWZuYw; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:24:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB4DC28C50B; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:24:42 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74A4928C50B for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:24:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d9t4yV4RrUsy for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:24:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com (sj-iport-5.cisco.com [171.68.10.87]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12BA528C465 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:24:40 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.25,417,1199692800"; d="scan'208";a="15073767" Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Feb 2008 19:24:33 -0800 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com (sj-core-4.cisco.com [171.68.223.138]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m1S3OX9S006316; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:24:33 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id m1S3ONkk005650; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 03:24:23 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.187]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:24:23 -0800 Received: from [10.32.241.150] ([10.32.241.150]) by xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 27 Feb 2008 19:24:22 -0800 Message-ID: <47C6295B.4030004@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:24:11 -0500 From: Jonathan Rosenberg User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Rosen References: <059201c872fb$e69e7040$640fa8c0@cis.neustar.com> In-Reply-To: <059201c872fb$e69e7040$640fa8c0@cis.neustar.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Feb 2008 03:24:22.0734 (UTC) FILETIME=[6994F6E0:01C879B9] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=6670; t=1204169073; x=1205033073; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim1004; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jdrosen@cisco.com; z=From:=20Jonathan=20Rosenberg=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Simple]=20FW=3A=20I-D=20Action=3Adraft -rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt |Sender:=20; bh=zMHv6+dLTyMpG0IFjO9fJjC2zhZHRTkeHe4Xe0JFNH0=; b=sYEAQmF4779XCG2g4U9r/kLnx+Ra6FpEMMkQIXW3hVdhxbA+O6ECbZXw1X xvrshLVSuB4S3/wE4GoLmOMjSuD7WIp8vw9+Kq/q3DAI7ThoEHx9IFp5XV8C JWQtQpg+Yg25QKLoYRswMq0PkAAUEpsreqKVPy0s3u6LPxcxCUGuA=; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=jdrosen@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim1004 verified; ); Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Simple] FW: I-D Action:draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org If I understand this correctly, there are two problems you are trying to address, and there are two pretty separate mechanisms in here: 1. how does the PNA know which presentities to publish for, and this is solved by having the PNA subscribe to the new event package, and 2. how does the PS know which presentities are served by a particular PNA, and that is what the xcap usage is for is that right? It seems to me that an alternative way to handle #1 is a subscription. When the number if watchers for a presentity on the PS goes above zero, the PS SUBSCRIBEs to the PNA for that presentity (basically a back-end subscription). When it goes back to zero, it unsubscribes. To avoid having N subscriptions, one for each active presentity, it'd be ideal to have a single subscription with something like Uri-list services. In other words, there is one subscription and one dialog, and the list of URI to subscribe to is provided in the body of the SUBSCRIBE. We have specs for that today (draft-ietf-sip-uri-list-subscribe). The only problem is that spec doesn't allow you to change the list over time. We need that here. Including a delta in SUBSCRIBE refreshes is an easy solution, and hinted at in that spec. There are a LOT of cases where one server is interested in the state of a whole lot of URIs, the set of which changes over time. Having an optimized way to do this with a single subscription usng uri-list-subscribe is, I think, a more general solution that would be really valuable. The second problem is really a ROUTING problem. How do I find the server in my domain that has information on a particular event package for a particular user? There are lots of variations on this problem that all look the same. See draft-ietf-simple-intradomain-federation for another case - how do I find the one (of many) presence servers in my domain that serve the presence event package for a particular user? All of the mechanisms defined in that document for routing could be used here too - its the same problem. Your xcap proposal is basically using a central DB and writing it with xcap. I think it'd be worth exploring this problem space more generally. -Jonathan R. Brian Rosen wrote: > Please take a look at this draft. The authors would appreciate your > comments. > > Brian > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] >> On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 3:30 PM >> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> Subject: I-D Action:draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> >> Title : Optimizing Notifications for Presence Network >> Agents >> Author(s) : B. Rosen, et al. >> Filename : draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt >> Pages : 19 >> Date : 2008-02-18 >> >> In large presence systems deployed in multiservice networks, presence >> information is often known by the network in addition to, or instead >> of the presentity's devices (endpoints). Examples of such >> information include location and availability for various kinds of >> session establishment. Even if devices know the information, the >> network often has more bandwidth and better scale to keep the >> presence server up to date. A Presence Network Agent (PNA) can >> publish presence information to a Presence Server(PS). When done >> large scale, the basic publish operation can be inefficient. When >> the network has millions of subscribers, only some of which have >> watchers, blind Publish operations are unecessary. WINFO can be used >> to determine watchers, but the efficiency of maintaining WINFO per >> subscriber, and the size of the messages involved, make that solution >> unattractive. The PNA would prefer to have the Presence Server >> simply tell it when there was at least one watcher. >> >> This document describes an XML document stored on the PS by which the >> PNA maintains a list of subscribers it can provide presence for as a >> SIP event package that tells the PNA when the number of watchers for >> a presentity on the list (or a specific presence element for a >> presentity) goes from 0 to at least 1 or from 1 to 0. >> >> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count- >> 00.txt >> >> To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to >> i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of >> the message. >> You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce >> to change your subscription settings. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the >> username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After >> logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then >> "get draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt". >> >> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >> >> Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >> >> Send a message to: >> mailserv@ietf.org. >> In the body type: >> "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt". >> >> NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in >> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this >> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" >> command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or >> a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers >> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with >> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split >> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on >> how to manipulate these messages. >> >> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> Internet-Draft. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Simple mailing list >> Simple@ietf.org >> http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 499 Thornall St. Cisco Fellow Edison, NJ 08837 Cisco, Voice Technology Group jdrosen@cisco.com http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (408) 902-3084 http://www.cisco.com _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 28 09:11:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE7A828C8E9; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:11:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.115 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.115 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.678, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hCTVD3hwryXn; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:11:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BE728C897; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:11:34 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FB3B28C884 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:11:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V1edCGaGfzOt for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:11:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgate.siemenscomms.co.uk (mailgate.siemenscomms.co.uk [195.171.110.225]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8CDA28C843 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:11:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from GBNTHT12009MSX.gb002.siemens.net ([137.223.219.236]) by siemenscomms.co.uk (PMDF V6.3-x14 #31430) with ESMTP id <0JWY00L0NKX9KQ@siemenscomms.co.uk> for simple@ietf.org; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:09:27 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:08:00 +0000 From: "Elwell, John" In-reply-to: To: Robert Sparks , simple mailing list Message-id: <0D5F89FAC29E2C41B98A6A762007F5D070BC58@GBNTHT12009MSX.gb002.siemens.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Thread-Topic: [Simple] Fwd: New draft (sort of): COMEDIA for MSRP Thread-Index: Ach5T7Nkwf8aQX4JTqaJRZk+/Y/W8gA3AqXQ Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: References: <200802211650.56365.remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com> Subject: Re: [Simple] Fwd: New draft (sort of): COMEDIA for MSRP X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2138519069==" Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============2138519069== Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C87A2C.7B67739A" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C87A2C.7B67739A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What is not clear to me is how many situations this would really be = useful. How many devices know for certain they are behind or not behind = a NAT and whether, for a particular session, the remote UA is on the = other side of that NAT. This was part of the problem space ICE is = supposed to address. I would have liked to see some discussion about use = of ICE. =20 John ________________________________ From: simple-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:simple-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Robert Sparks Sent: 27 February 2008 14:46 To: simple mailing list Subject: [Simple] Fwd: New draft (sort of): COMEDIA for MSRP =09 =09 Folks -=20 I currently don't have this draft on the agenda for Philadelphia - = there hasn't been any on-list discussion. Please look this draft over and comment. R=E9mi = also sent a presentation to the list back around the Vancouver meeting you can find = in the archives. RjS Begin forwarded message: From: R=E9mi Denis-Courmont Date: February 21, 2008 8:50:56 AM CST To: simple@ietf.org Subject: [Simple] New draft (sort of): COMEDIA for MSRP Hello, This draft tries to allow negociating the MSRP connection direction, = avoiding=20 the need for MSRP relays, if possible (essentially, it's a very = simplified=20 version of Aki's expired MSRP-ICE): = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-denis-simple-msrp-comedia-01.tx= t Unfortunately, it could not be presented in Vancouver due to timing=20 constraints. Feedback welcome. --=20 R=E9mi Denis-Courmont _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple ------_=_NextPart_001_01C87A2C.7B67739A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What is not clear to me is how many situations = this would=20 really be useful. How many devices know for certain they are behind or = not=20 behind a NAT and whether, for a particular session, the remote UA is on = the=20 other side of that NAT. This was part of the problem space ICE is = supposed to=20 address. I would have liked to see some discussion about use of=20 ICE.
 
John

From: simple-bounces@ietf.org=20 [mailto:simple-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert=20 Sparks
Sent: 27 February 2008 14:46
To: simple = mailing=20 list
Subject: [Simple] Fwd: New draft (sort of): COMEDIA for = MSRP

Folks -

I currently don't have this draft on the agenda for Philadelphia = - there=20 hasn't been
any on-list discussion. Please look this draft over and=20 comment. R=E9mi also sent a
presentation to the list back around the Vancouver meeting you = can find=20 in the archives.

RjS

Begin forwarded message:

From: R=E9mi = Denis-Courmont=20 <remi.denis-courmont@nokia.c= om>
Date: February = 21, 2008 8:50:56=20 AM CST
To: simple@ietf.org
Subject: = [Simple] = New draft=20 (sort of): COMEDIA for MSRP

Hello,

This draft tries to allow negociating the = MSRP=20 connection direction, avoiding 
the need for MSRP relays, if possible = (essentially,=20 it's a very simplified 
version of Aki's expired MSRP-ICE):

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-denis-simple-msrp-co= media-01.txt

Unfortunately, it could not be presented = in=20 Vancouver due to timing 
constraints. Feedback welcome.

-- 
R=E9mi Denis-Courmont
_______________________________________________
Simple mailing list
Simple@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/simple

------_=_NextPart_001_01C87A2C.7B67739A-- --===============2138519069== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============2138519069==-- From simple-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 28 18:10:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 981A228C897; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:10:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.751 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.751 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.629, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iI143MklTi7L; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:10:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977FD28C3E0; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:10:28 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE2B3A6B4E for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:10:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zqd9XyaB99EL for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:10:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ebru.winwebhosting.com (ebru.winwebhosting.com [74.54.111.226]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37C773A6AF4 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:10:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from neustargw.va.neustar.com ([209.173.53.233] helo=BROSLT41xp) by ebru.winwebhosting.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JUuhJ-0000s8-JY; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:10:06 -0600 From: "Brian Rosen" To: "'Jonathan Rosenberg'" References: <059201c872fb$e69e7040$640fa8c0@cis.neustar.com> <47C6295B.4030004@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:10:10 -0500 Message-ID: <012801c87a78$38119640$640fa8c0@cis.neustar.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: Ach5uXF9JGHbOOvRT5mgCp8wECsa4gAvQgOw In-Reply-To: <47C6295B.4030004@cisco.com> X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - ebru.winwebhosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - brianrosen.net X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Simple] FW: I-D Action:draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org The authors have discussed having the list in the subscribe, and the delta problem was the reason we left it as an XCAP managed document. I think we'd be amenable to exploring a more general solution. I'm generally am in favor of more general purpose mechanisms, and I agree that the general problem of knowing changing state of a set of URIs is a general problem. Of course, you never know for any particular problem if a focused point solution really is better than a more general solution. The authors presented a point solution as a conversation starter, but I think again we would be amenable to a more general purpose mechanism if that was the consensus in the WG. It probably generalizes beyond SIMPLE, but I suspect we can keep the discussion going here for the time being. We would like to keep the property that all it takes is one transaction for the PS to tell the PNA about any changes that have happened (as opposed to transaction per presentity), but I think we're pretty open on the semantics of what the operation was doing. I should also mention that we would even like to generalize the mechanism we have proposed in a different dimension: a PNA may publish a number of elements and would actually like to know if there are watchers for a particular element rather than just the over-all watcher count. The more general the basic mechanism, the more realistic that kind of extension should be. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Rosenberg [mailto:jdrosen@cisco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 10:24 PM > To: Brian Rosen > Cc: simple@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Simple] FW: I-D Action:draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count- > 00.txt > > If I understand this correctly, there are two problems you are trying to > address, and there are two pretty separate mechanisms in here: > > 1. how does the PNA know which presentities to publish for, and this is > solved by having the PNA subscribe to the new event package, and > > 2. how does the PS know which presentities are served by a particular > PNA, and that is what the xcap usage is for > > > is that right? > > It seems to me that an alternative way to handle #1 is a subscription. > When the number if watchers for a presentity on the PS goes above zero, > the PS SUBSCRIBEs to the PNA for that presentity (basically a back-end > subscription). When it goes back to zero, it unsubscribes. To avoid > having N subscriptions, one for each active presentity, it'd be ideal to > have a single subscription with something like Uri-list services. In > other words, there is one subscription and one dialog, and the list of > URI to subscribe to is provided in the body of the SUBSCRIBE. We have > specs for that today (draft-ietf-sip-uri-list-subscribe). The only > problem is that spec doesn't allow you to change the list over time. We > need that here. Including a delta in SUBSCRIBE refreshes is an easy > solution, and hinted at in that spec. > > There are a LOT of cases where one server is interested in the state of > a whole lot of URIs, the set of which changes over time. Having an > optimized way to do this with a single subscription usng > uri-list-subscribe is, I think, a more general solution that would be > really valuable. > > The second problem is really a ROUTING problem. How do I find the server > in my domain that has information on a particular event package for a > particular user? There are lots of variations on this problem that all > look the same. See draft-ietf-simple-intradomain-federation for another > case - how do I find the one (of many) presence servers in my domain > that serve the presence event package for a particular user? All of the > mechanisms defined in that document for routing could be used here too - > its the same problem. Your xcap proposal is basically using a central DB > and writing it with xcap. I think it'd be worth exploring this problem > space more generally. > > -Jonathan R. > > > > > Brian Rosen wrote: > > Please take a look at this draft. The authors would appreciate your > > comments. > > > > Brian > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:i-d-announce- > bounces@ietf.org] > >> On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > >> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 3:30 PM > >> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > >> Subject: I-D Action:draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt > >> > >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > >> directories. > >> > >> Title : Optimizing Notifications for Presence Network > >> Agents > >> Author(s) : B. Rosen, et al. > >> Filename : draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt > >> Pages : 19 > >> Date : 2008-02-18 > >> > >> In large presence systems deployed in multiservice networks, presence > >> information is often known by the network in addition to, or instead > >> of the presentity's devices (endpoints). Examples of such > >> information include location and availability for various kinds of > >> session establishment. Even if devices know the information, the > >> network often has more bandwidth and better scale to keep the > >> presence server up to date. A Presence Network Agent (PNA) can > >> publish presence information to a Presence Server(PS). When done > >> large scale, the basic publish operation can be inefficient. When > >> the network has millions of subscribers, only some of which have > >> watchers, blind Publish operations are unecessary. WINFO can be used > >> to determine watchers, but the efficiency of maintaining WINFO per > >> subscriber, and the size of the messages involved, make that solution > >> unattractive. The PNA would prefer to have the Presence Server > >> simply tell it when there was at least one watcher. > >> > >> This document describes an XML document stored on the PS by which the > >> PNA maintains a list of subscribers it can provide presence for as a > >> SIP event package that tells the PNA when the number of watchers for > >> a presentity on the list (or a specific presence element for a > >> presentity) goes from 0 to at least 1 or from 1 to 0. > >> > >> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count- > >> 00.txt > >> > >> To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to > >> i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of > >> the message. > >> You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce > >> to change your subscription settings. > >> > >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the > >> username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After > >> logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then > >> "get draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt". > >> > >> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > >> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > >> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > >> > >> Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > >> > >> Send a message to: > >> mailserv@ietf.org. > >> In the body type: > >> "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt". > >> > >> NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > >> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > >> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > >> command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > >> a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > >> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > >> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > >> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > >> how to manipulate these messages. > >> > >> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > >> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > >> Internet-Draft. > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Simple mailing list > >> Simple@ietf.org > >> http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple > > -- > Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 499 Thornall St. > Cisco Fellow Edison, NJ 08837 > Cisco, Voice Technology Group > jdrosen@cisco.com > http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (408) 902-3084 > http://www.cisco.com _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 28 19:09:19 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E09928C78C; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:09:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.444 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.444 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5gimnJOyFFvz; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:09:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FD6128C427; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:09:18 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA56828C427 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:09:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eT-W2qmuHKPs for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:09:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (unknown [61.144.161.53]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED0728C541 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:09:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com (szxga01-in [172.24.2.3]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JWZ005VICQWL8@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for simple@ietf.org; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:08:56 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.1.18]) by szxga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0JWZ003LMCQVOU@szxga01-in.huawei.com> for simple@ietf.org; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:08:56 +0800 (CST) Received: from s32328b ([10.85.203.144]) by szxml03-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0JWZ00LADCQVCK@szxml03-in.huawei.com> for simple@ietf.org; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:08:55 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:08:54 +0800 From: Qian Sun In-reply-to: <47C54196.6040006@ericsson.com> To: 'Salvatore Loreto' , 'Miguel Garcia' Message-id: <00aa01c87a80$6b1b1a40$90cb550a@china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: Ach5MkVqX8TAyJeIQTWPV/fbg3qEQwBTMmiw Cc: "'Tschofenig Hannes \(NSN - FI/Espoo\)'" , 'SIMPLE mailing list' , 'Henning Schulzrinne' Subject: Re: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Maybe we do not need the mechanism for authorizing external parties to do publications on your behalf, if the Presence Server trusts the PNA (or other AS). In OMA, the IM server may directly publish the on/off status of presentity to the Presence Server without the authorization mechanism. Qian -----Original Message----- From: Salvatore Loreto [mailto:salvatore.loreto@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 6:55 PM To: Miguel Garcia Cc: Qian Sun; 'Tschofenig Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)'; 'SIMPLE mailing list'; 'Henning Schulzrinne' Subject: Re: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft Hi, in line /Sal Miguel Garcia wrote: > To make this work like you said, you will need: > > - A mechanism for authorizing external parties to do publications on > your behalf. I am not sure if we have such mechanism in place. [Sal] I am not sure we have such mechanism, too. However, as other standardization bodies (3GGP and OMA) are thinking to insert a PNA (Presence Network Agent) maybe we should start to think of a mechanism like this. see also this draft: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/simple/draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt > > - A mechanism for instructing the presence server to switch on/off > your location information towards watchers. We do have this mechanism, > and it is presence authorization rules. So, if in my device I have > some UI entry that indicates "toggle location information", when I act > upon it, the device will change the presence authorization rules. > > What I am proposing is that the "toggle location information" in the > UI will trigger a new (partial) PUBLISH from the presentity. I think > it matches better with the general architecture of the presentity > providing his location. [Sal] Of course what I am suggesting would require some form of authorization mechanism, and people could start to argue about the complexity of the delegation mechanism. However also in your proposal, you want to change in some way the Presence Server behavior and let it to change/update the presence information not only when it receives a PUBLISH, but also via the de-reference mechanism. > > /Miguel > > Salvatore Loreto wrote: >> Hi Miguel, >> >> surely I am missing something, >> but if it is only a presence authorization rules problem, then the >> presentity should in some way authorize the >> presence server to receive information, better location information, >> from a specific LCP server >> and then let the LCP server directly PUBLISH presentity's location >> value to Presence Server. >> >> /Sal >> >> Miguel Garcia wrote: >>> Hi Qian: >>> >>> Yes, an LCP server can publish the presentity's PIDF-LO to the >>> presence server. The problem here is that, under normal >>> circumstances, the presence server will not merge this PIDF-LO with >>> the current presentity's PIDF, because the presentity didn't publish >>> location information in the first place, so presumably it doesn't >>> even have presence authorization rules, etc. >>> >>> /Miguel >>> >>> >>> Qian Sun wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Could LCP Server as a presence source directly PUBLISH presentity's >>>> location value to Presence Server? Presence Server can compose a >>>> merged >>>> PIDF document including presence information from different sources. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Qian >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: simple-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:simple-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>> Behalf Of >>>> Miguel Garcia >>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 10:12 PM >>>> To: SIMPLE mailing list >>>> Cc: Tschofenig Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo); Henning Schulzrinne >>>> Subject: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft >>>> >>>> Hi: >>>> >>>> We have just submitted a draft that discusses the issue of indirect >>>> publication. The first part of the draft focuses on location URIs, so, >>>> perhaps it is of not much interest to the SIMPLE WG. >>>> >>>> Filename: draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-publish >>>> Revision: 00 >>>> Title: Indirect Presence Publication with the Session >>>> Initiation Protocol(SIP) >>>> Creation_date: 2008-02-18 >>>> WG ID: Independent Submission >>>> Number_of_pages: 12 >>>> >>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-pu >>>> >>>> blish-00.txt >>>> >>>> Comments are welcome. >>>> >>>> /Miguel >>>> >>> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 29 02:28:19 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0F3028C21F; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 02:28:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.526 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.526 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.089, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G+wdHuMXp16J; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 02:28:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3D2528C15D; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 02:28:18 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 528673A6BD0 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 02:28:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9BPMLDukKZIl for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 02:28:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mgw-mx09.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [192.100.105.134]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30BB73A6838 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 02:28:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-mx09.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id m1TASmQC006117; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 04:29:26 -0600 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:27:19 +0200 Received: from esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.177]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:27:18 +0200 Received: from [10.144.23.25] ([10.144.23.25]) by esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:27:18 +0200 Message-ID: <47C7DE06.2000204@nsn.com> Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:27:18 +0200 From: Miguel Garcia User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Qian Sun References: <00aa01c87a80$6b1b1a40$90cb550a@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <00aa01c87a80$6b1b1a40$90cb550a@china.huawei.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Feb 2008 10:27:18.0960 (UTC) FILETIME=[A9678300:01C87ABD] X-Nokia-AV: Clean Cc: "'Tschofenig Hannes \(NSN - FI/Espoo\)'" , 'SIMPLE mailing list' , 'Henning Schulzrinne' Subject: Re: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org If we going to do third party publications, for sure we need a mechanism for controlling authorization. Honestly, no matter whether you are in a controlled environment (such as the OMA architecture) or not. I wouldn't like that my operator suddenly starts disclosing my location information without my permission, just because this information is coming from a trusted source. Furthermore. We have discussed the issue of how we will need a mechanism for the end user to provide publication authorization rules. This will control the rules, but at the end of the day, if the LCP server does not want to provide the location information to the presence server, then such information won't be present in the PIDF. In other words. We need a mechanism at the user's disposal for controlling when and how these indirect publications are done. The proposal to use third party publication is lame, IMHO, for privacy reasons. /Miguel Qian Sun wrote: > Hi, > > Maybe we do not need the mechanism for authorizing external parties to do publications on your behalf, if the Presence Server trusts the PNA (or other AS). > In OMA, the IM server may directly publish the on/off status of presentity to the Presence Server without the authorization mechanism. > > Qian > > -----Original Message----- > From: Salvatore Loreto [mailto:salvatore.loreto@ericsson.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 6:55 PM > To: Miguel Garcia > Cc: Qian Sun; 'Tschofenig Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)'; 'SIMPLE mailing list'; 'Henning Schulzrinne' > Subject: Re: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft > > Hi, > > in line > > /Sal > > Miguel Garcia wrote: >> To make this work like you said, you will need: >> >> - A mechanism for authorizing external parties to do publications on >> your behalf. I am not sure if we have such mechanism in place. > [Sal] I am not sure we have such mechanism, too. > However, as other standardization bodies (3GGP and OMA) are thinking to > insert a PNA (Presence Network Agent) maybe we should start to think of > a mechanism like this. > > see also this draft: > http://tools.ietf.org/wg/simple/draft-rosen-simple-watcher-count-00.txt > > >> - A mechanism for instructing the presence server to switch on/off >> your location information towards watchers. We do have this mechanism, >> and it is presence authorization rules. So, if in my device I have >> some UI entry that indicates "toggle location information", when I act >> upon it, the device will change the presence authorization rules. >> >> What I am proposing is that the "toggle location information" in the >> UI will trigger a new (partial) PUBLISH from the presentity. I think >> it matches better with the general architecture of the presentity >> providing his location. > [Sal] Of course what I am suggesting would require some form of > authorization mechanism, and people could start to argue about the > complexity of the delegation mechanism. > However also in your proposal, you want to change in some way the > Presence Server behavior and let it to change/update the presence > information not only when it receives a PUBLISH, but also via the > de-reference mechanism. > > >> /Miguel >> >> Salvatore Loreto wrote: >>> Hi Miguel, >>> >>> surely I am missing something, >>> but if it is only a presence authorization rules problem, then the >>> presentity should in some way authorize the >>> presence server to receive information, better location information, >>> from a specific LCP server >>> and then let the LCP server directly PUBLISH presentity's location >>> value to Presence Server. >>> >>> /Sal >>> >>> Miguel Garcia wrote: >>>> Hi Qian: >>>> >>>> Yes, an LCP server can publish the presentity's PIDF-LO to the >>>> presence server. The problem here is that, under normal >>>> circumstances, the presence server will not merge this PIDF-LO with >>>> the current presentity's PIDF, because the presentity didn't publish >>>> location information in the first place, so presumably it doesn't >>>> even have presence authorization rules, etc. >>>> >>>> /Miguel >>>> >>>> >>>> Qian Sun wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Could LCP Server as a presence source directly PUBLISH presentity's >>>>> location value to Presence Server? Presence Server can compose a >>>>> merged >>>>> PIDF document including presence information from different sources. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Qian >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: simple-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:simple-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>>> Behalf Of >>>>> Miguel Garcia >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 10:12 PM >>>>> To: SIMPLE mailing list >>>>> Cc: Tschofenig Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo); Henning Schulzrinne >>>>> Subject: [Simple] New Indirect publication draft >>>>> >>>>> Hi: >>>>> >>>>> We have just submitted a draft that discusses the issue of indirect >>>>> publication. The first part of the draft focuses on location URIs, so, >>>>> perhaps it is of not much interest to the SIMPLE WG. >>>>> >>>>> Filename: draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-publish >>>>> Revision: 00 >>>>> Title: Indirect Presence Publication with the Session >>>>> Initiation Protocol(SIP) >>>>> Creation_date: 2008-02-18 >>>>> WG ID: Independent Submission >>>>> Number_of_pages: 12 >>>>> >>>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-garcia-simple-indirect-presence-pu >>>>> >>>>> blish-00.txt >>>>> >>>>> Comments are welcome. >>>>> >>>>> /Miguel >>>>> >>>> > -- Miguel A. Garcia tel:+358-50-4804586 Nokia Siemens Networks Espoo, Finland _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 29 07:34:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E12028C448; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:34:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.208 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.208 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.771, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uyy3laywBCuW; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:34:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3C5028C3DA; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:34:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66AE428C406 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:34:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZK+4ZDRDVv63 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from oslproxyp1.tandberg.com (oslproxyp1.tandberg.com [194.0.215.2]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A3528C386 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 07:32:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from OSLEXCP11.eu.tandberg.int (oslexcp11.eu.tandberg.int [10.47.136.43]) by oslproxyp1.tandberg.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m1TFWAbU015186 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:32:14 +0100 Received: from oslexcp1.eu.tandberg.int ([10.47.136.29]) by OSLEXCP11.eu.tandberg.int with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:32:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:31:58 +0100 Message-ID: <9F6ACAE02B6DD040A1E259977622CFDB01C364EC@oslexcp1.eu.tandberg.int> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Comfortable with the current nickname text? Thread-Index: Ach66DigsYvHR5IrSh6aJ1CtTC2f7g== From: "Geir Arne Sandbakken" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Feb 2008 15:32:00.0264 (UTC) FILETIME=[39E92080:01C87AE8] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.62 on 194.0.215.2 Subject: [Simple] Comfortable with the current nickname text? X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org Experts, May I query if you are comfortable with the current text about nicknames? http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-simple-chat-02 Thanks, Geir Arne _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple From simple-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 29 13:49:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-simple-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 816383A6F47; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:49:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.093 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.093 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.656, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eVsuYPfmFFS8; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:49:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 958963A6EA7; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:49:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: simple@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C70083A6DBD for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:49:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LAmTMvm-sISu for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:49:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com (sj-iport-5.cisco.com [171.68.10.87]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD5C3A6D5A for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:49:27 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.25,429,1199692800"; d="scan'208";a="15422714" Received: from sj-dkim-3.cisco.com ([171.71.179.195]) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 29 Feb 2008 13:49:19 -0800 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-3.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m1TLnJTY001813; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:49:19 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id m1TLnJcD010312; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:49:19 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.174]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:49:19 -0800 Received: from [10.32.241.150] ([10.32.241.150]) by xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:49:19 -0800 Message-ID: <47C87DD4.4060706@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:49:08 -0500 From: Jonathan Rosenberg User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erik Shani References: <8E5AB0A04458904BB9B079055261033C04355667@mail.followap.com> In-Reply-To: <8E5AB0A04458904BB9B079055261033C04355667@mail.followap.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Feb 2008 21:49:19.0172 (UTC) FILETIME=[EFC05840:01C87B1C] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1025; t=1204321759; x=1205185759; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=jdrosen@cisco.com; z=From:=20Jonathan=20Rosenberg=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Simple]=20[Geopriv]=20question=20on=20 presrules |Sender:=20; bh=Hoh2BecquupNohoNBel96WIa31YUPjwxtJqEM4vbJK4=; b=Def/Yxm7Sg0SXM0Ei8uBsCsabKzpdQhZb2YmfCCKIDlMe7O656i90ZP5rd ZV6Le4iz36il5LEAO0xUMqFUJmzpr7tZVf4LtMpaMgrWXTMkpRIyag+/r8PX LcAYyYpt83; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-3; header.From=jdrosen@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); Cc: simple@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Simple] [Geopriv] question on presrules X-BeenThere: simple@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: SIP for Instant Messaging and Presence Leveraging Extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: simple-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: simple-bounces@ietf.org Erik Shani wrote: > I still feel that the question raised by Enrique exists. > = > Is it the job of the UI to prevent such scenarios? > = > In my opinion this is impossible. Let us take a scenario when two = > different clients work with the same server. > = > It is impossible to predict what will be the behavior of the other = > client, hence it is required (in my opinion) that the client = > =93understands=94 the current document and performs its operations accord= ingly. Right, this is what I was saying. The client has to retrieve the current = documents and present the user with a correct representation of what = will happen, and then translate the desired user experience into the = right set of documents. -Jonathan R> -- = Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 499 Thornall St. Cisco Fellow Edison, NJ 08837 Cisco, Voice Technology Group jdrosen@cisco.com http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (408) 902-3084 http://www.cisco.com _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list Simple@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple