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From: Gonzalo Salgueiro <gsalguei@cisco.com>
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Subject: [sip-clf] Open issues for the SIP CLF representation draft
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Folks -

In preparation for the -00 draft of the WG implementation draft, I need =
to close on a few unresolved issues that we agreed during the Virtual =
Interim Meeting to take to the list for further discussion. Please =
provide timely feedback so we minimize the number of open issues to =
discuss in Prague.

1. Shall we use a TAB or a SPACE (or any LWS) as field delimiters?
=00
Considerations and points raised:

- TABs don=92t survive Telnet or web pages very well, especially when =
copy/pasting.
- spaces can appear inside fields (as can most other delimiters we =
choose)
- how do TAB and SPACE delimiters interact with shell tools (rep, cut, =
awk)

2. Do we need to update the syntax of the optionally logged fields from =
the current well known (though possibly more cryptic) TLV =
representation?

<mandatory fields>	01,07,foo.bar	02,0b,hello world     =20

to something more easily readable (like tag=3D"value")?

<mandatory fields> 1=3D"foo.bar" 2=3D"hello world=94
=00

Considerations and points raised:

- some concern about adding quotes around values (since some fields will =
contain quotes)
- this issue exists for almost any delimiter
- essentially a matter of "taste"


Warm Regards,

--Gonzalo




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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Calibri; font-style: normal; font-variant: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: =
normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Calibri; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Calibri; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#0009C6"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"4"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 15px; ">Folks =
-<br><br></span></font></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#0009C6"><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"4"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 15px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">In =
preparation for the -00 draft of the WG implementation draft, I need to =
close on a few unresolved issues that we agreed during the Virtual =
Interim Meeting to take to the list for further discussion. Please =
provide timely feedback so we minimize the number of open issues to =
discuss in Prague.</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">1. Shall we use a TAB or =
a SPACE (or any LWS) as field delimiters?</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; ">=00</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">Considerations and points raised:</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- =
TABs don=92t survive Telnet or web pages very well, especially when =
copy/pasting.</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- =
spaces can appear inside fields (as can most other delimiters we =
choose)</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- how do TAB and SPACE =
delimiters interact with shell tools (rep, cut, awk)</div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">2. Do we need to update the =
syntax of the optionally logged fields from the current well known =
(though possibly more cryptic) TLV representation?</div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">&lt;mandatory fields&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>01,07,foo.bar<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>02,0b,hello world &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">to something more easily =
readable (like tag=3D"value")?</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">&lt;mandatory fields&gt; =
1=3D"foo.bar" 2=3D"hello world=94</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; ">=00</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Considerations and =
points raised:</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- some concern about =
adding quotes around values (since some fields will contain =
quotes)</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- this issue exists for =
almost any delimiter</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- =
essentially a matter of "taste"</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#0009C6"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"4"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 15px; =
"><br></span></font></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#0009C6"><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"4"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 15px; "><br></span></font></font></div>Warm =
Regards,<br><br>--Gonzalo</span></font></font><br><br><br></div></span></d=
iv></span></div></span></span>
</div>
<br></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-83--961500508--

From peter.musgrave@magorcorp.com  Sun Feb 13 05:07:25 2011
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From: Peter Musgrave <peter.musgrave@magorcorp.com>
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To: Gonzalo Salgueiro <gsalguei@cisco.com>
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Cc: "sip-clf@ietf.org Mailing" <sip-clf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [sip-clf] Open issues for the SIP CLF representation draft
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Hi,=20

1. I guess I favour tabs (since I expect a lot of spaces in fields) =
despite their drawbacks in e.g. Telnet.=20

2. I would avoid the equals and quotes since this introduces two =
elements which could be in the data whereas the TLV introduces only one =
(comma)

Peter Musgrave
(as individual)

On 2011-02-10, at 1:52 AM, Gonzalo Salgueiro wrote:

> Folks -
>=20
> In preparation for the -00 draft of the WG implementation draft, I =
need to close on a few unresolved issues that we agreed during the =
Virtual Interim Meeting to take to the list for further discussion. =
Please provide timely feedback so we minimize the number of open issues =
to discuss in Prague.
>=20
> 1. Shall we use a TAB or a SPACE (or any LWS) as field delimiters?
> Considerations and points raised:
>=20
> - TABs don=92t survive Telnet or web pages very well, especially when =
copy/pasting.
> - spaces can appear inside fields (as can most other delimiters we =
choose)
> - how do TAB and SPACE delimiters interact with shell tools (rep, cut, =
awk)
>=20
> 2. Do we need to update the syntax of the optionally logged fields =
from the current well known (though possibly more cryptic) TLV =
representation?
>=20
> <mandatory fields>	01,07,foo.bar	02,0b,hello world     =20
>=20
> to something more easily readable (like tag=3D"value")?
>=20
> <mandatory fields> 1=3D"foo.bar" 2=3D"hello world=94
>=20
> Considerations and points raised:
>=20
> - some concern about adding quotes around values (since some fields =
will contain quotes)
> - this issue exists for almost any delimiter
> - essentially a matter of "taste"
>=20
>=20
> Warm Regards,
>=20
> --Gonzalo
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sip-clf mailing list
> sip-clf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip-clf


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<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">Hi,&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>1. I guess I favour tabs (since I expect =
a lot of spaces in fields) despite their drawbacks in e.g. =
Telnet.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>2. I would avoid the equals and =
quotes since this introduces two elements which could be in the data =
whereas the TLV introduces only one =
(comma)</div><div><br></div><div>Peter Musgrave</div><div>(as =
individual)</div><div><br><div><div>On 2011-02-10, at 1:52 AM, Gonzalo =
Salgueiro wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Calibri; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Calibri; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-family: Calibri; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-family: Calibri; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#0009C6"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"4"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 15px; ">Folks =
-<br><br></span></font></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#0009C6"><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"4"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 15px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">In =
preparation for the -00 draft of the WG implementation draft, I need to =
close on a few unresolved issues that we agreed during the Virtual =
Interim Meeting to take to the list for further discussion. Please =
provide timely feedback so we minimize the number of open issues to =
discuss in Prague.</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">1. Shall we use a TAB or =
a SPACE (or any LWS) as field delimiters?</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">Considerations and points raised:</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- =
TABs don=92t survive Telnet or web pages very well, especially when =
copy/pasting.</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- =
spaces can appear inside fields (as can most other delimiters we =
choose)</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- how do TAB and SPACE =
delimiters interact with shell tools (rep, cut, awk)</div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">2. Do we need to update the =
syntax of the optionally logged fields from the current well known =
(though possibly more cryptic) TLV representation?</div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">&lt;mandatory fields&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>01,07,foo.bar<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>02,0b,hello world &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">to something more easily =
readable (like tag=3D"value")?</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">&lt;mandatory fields&gt; =
1=3D"foo.bar" 2=3D"hello world=94</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Considerations and =
points raised:</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- some concern about =
adding quotes around values (since some fields will contain =
quotes)</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- this issue exists for =
almost any delimiter</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- =
essentially a matter of "taste"</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#0009C6"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"4"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 15px; =
"><br></span></font></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#0009C6"><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"4"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 15px; "><br></span></font></font></div>Warm =
Regards,<br><br>--Gonzalo</span></font></font><br><br><br></div></span></d=
iv></span></div></span></span>
</div>
<br></div>_______________________________________________<br>sip-clf =
mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:sip-clf@ietf.org">sip-clf@ietf.org</a><br>https://www.ietf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/sip-clf<br></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html=
>=

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From jeroen@unfix.org  Wed Feb 16 04:53:58 2011
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Cc: cee@mitre.org, syslog@ietf.org, "Heinbockel, Bill" <heinbockel@mitre.org>, sip-clf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sip-clf] [Syslog] draft-cloud-log-00 / CEE - why not IPFIX?
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On 2011-02-16 12:34, Rainer Gerhards wrote:
[..]
> The question is if such an effort must be bound restricted to a single
> protocol. My PoV is that this is counter-productive.

I might be missing the parsing here, but can you explain what part is
counter-productive to have a single protocol and having to write only a
single parser versus having a lot of different protocols who require
parsers which can resolve ambiguity?

> You definitely have a point in that IPFIX may be superior than syslog in many
> regards. I do not intend to argue against this. But often a simpler solution
> is able to draw more attention, and thus deployments, than a (potentially or
> actually) technical superior one (shouldn't we all use the OSI stack by now,
> just as one example...). 

I wonder what the "E" in IETF stands for if I see the above statement.
Why not simply use CSV or hey just pack it in XML! :)

Please note that IPFIX has gathered quite some attention already.

As for the OSI stack argument, the world is not ready for IPv6 either.

I like to also quote:
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sip-clf/current/msg00430.html

8<-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Shall we use a TAB or a SPACE (or any LWS) as field delimiters?
Considerations and points raised:

- TABs don’t survive Telnet or web pages very well, especially when
copy/pasting.
- spaces can appear inside fields (as can most other delimiters we choose)
- how do TAB and SPACE delimiters interact with shell tools (rep, cut, awk)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------->8

The moment you have to worry about a delimiter, you have big
problems.... that is why char format is not a good idea. Yes, you can
use all the standard unix command tools to process them, but are you
really going to do this on the big scale? I certainly hope not.

The same with Apache logs, very useful to have to parse the IP address
again to get the information you want. Especially with IPv6 where the
address can have quite a number of formats based on how the address is
represented, not even going talking about the point.

Oh and those unix tools, they do not support UTF-8 in a lot of cases,
thus they are suddenly quite useless.

> I don't think it is useful to include IPFIX in syslog. But it may be an
> option that IPFIX makes syslog obsolete. I think you should take that later
> route.

If there is going to be new effort for syslog, is that then not the
route it should be taking? Structured data is so much more useful than
unstructured data, and that is the big problem that

> But as I said -- I do not intend to spawn another iteration of this lengthy
> discussion. It has occurred sooo often in the past years.

Is there a summary of this discussion with a clear listing of pro/cons?
Would be good to have that in a draft, is there one? If there isn't
please write one with those arguments so that it can referred to instead
of stating 'we did this before, EOD'...

Greets,
 Jeroen

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--Apple-Mail-228-558319230
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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	charset=windows-1252

Thanks Peter. Does anyone else care to weigh in with some opinions on =
this prior to the -00 deadline?

Regards,

Gonzalo
On Feb 13, 2011, at 8:07 AM, Peter Musgrave wrote:

> Hi,=20
>=20
> 1. I guess I favour tabs (since I expect a lot of spaces in fields) =
despite their drawbacks in e.g. Telnet.=20
>=20
> 2. I would avoid the equals and quotes since this introduces two =
elements which could be in the data whereas the TLV introduces only one =
(comma)
>=20
> Peter Musgrave
> (as individual)
>=20
> On 2011-02-10, at 1:52 AM, Gonzalo Salgueiro wrote:
>=20
>> Folks -
>>=20
>> In preparation for the -00 draft of the WG implementation draft, I =
need to close on a few unresolved issues that we agreed during the =
Virtual Interim Meeting to take to the list for further discussion. =
Please provide timely feedback so we minimize the number of open issues =
to discuss in Prague.
>>=20
>> 1. Shall we use a TAB or a SPACE (or any LWS) as field delimiters?
>> Considerations and points raised:
>>=20
>> - TABs don=92t survive Telnet or web pages very well, especially when =
copy/pasting.
>> - spaces can appear inside fields (as can most other delimiters we =
choose)
>> - how do TAB and SPACE delimiters interact with shell tools (rep, =
cut, awk)
>>=20
>> 2. Do we need to update the syntax of the optionally logged fields =
from the current well known (though possibly more cryptic) TLV =
representation?
>>=20
>> <mandatory fields>	01,07,foo.bar	02,0b,hello world     =20
>>=20
>> to something more easily readable (like tag=3D"value")?
>>=20
>> <mandatory fields> 1=3D"foo.bar" 2=3D"hello world=94
>>=20
>> Considerations and points raised:
>>=20
>> - some concern about adding quotes around values (since some fields =
will contain quotes)
>> - this issue exists for almost any delimiter
>> - essentially a matter of "taste"
>>=20
>>=20
>> Warm Regards,
>>=20
>> --Gonzalo
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> sip-clf mailing list
>> sip-clf@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip-clf
>=20


--Apple-Mail-228-558319230
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	charset=windows-1252

<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">Thanks Peter. Does anyone else care to weigh in with some opinions on =
this prior to the -00 =
deadline?<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Gonzalo<br>=
<div><div>On Feb 13, 2011, at 8:07 AM, Peter Musgrave wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi,&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>1. =
I guess I favour tabs (since I expect a lot of spaces in fields) despite =
their drawbacks in e.g. Telnet.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>2. I =
would avoid the equals and quotes since this introduces two elements =
which could be in the data whereas the TLV introduces only one =
(comma)</div><div><br></div><div>Peter Musgrave</div><div>(as =
individual)</div><div><br><div><div>On 2011-02-10, at 1:52 AM, Gonzalo =
Salgueiro wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Calibri; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
font-family: Calibri; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-family: Calibri; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; font-family: Calibri; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#0009C6"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"4"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 15px; ">Folks =
-<br><br></span></font></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#0009C6"><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"4"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 15px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">In =
preparation for the -00 draft of the WG implementation draft, I need to =
close on a few unresolved issues that we agreed during the Virtual =
Interim Meeting to take to the list for further discussion. Please =
provide timely feedback so we minimize the number of open issues to =
discuss in Prague.</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">1. Shall we use a TAB or =
a SPACE (or any LWS) as field delimiters?</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
">Considerations and points raised:</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- =
TABs don=92t survive Telnet or web pages very well, especially when =
copy/pasting.</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- =
spaces can appear inside fields (as can most other delimiters we =
choose)</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- how do TAB and SPACE =
delimiters interact with shell tools (rep, cut, awk)</div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">2. Do we need to update the =
syntax of the optionally logged fields from the current well known =
(though possibly more cryptic) TLV representation?</div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">&lt;mandatory fields&gt;<span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>01,07,foo.bar<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>02,0b,hello world &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">to something more easily =
readable (like tag=3D"value")?</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">&lt;mandatory fields&gt; =
1=3D"foo.bar" 2=3D"hello world=94</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Considerations and =
points raised:</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- some concern about =
adding quotes around values (since some fields will contain =
quotes)</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- this issue exists for =
almost any delimiter</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">- =
essentially a matter of "taste"</div><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#0009C6"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"4"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 15px; =
"><br></span></font></font></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#0009C6"><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"4"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 15px; "><br></span></font></font></div>Warm =
Regards,<br><br>--Gonzalo</span></font></font><br><br><br></div></span></d=
iv></span></div></span></span>
</div>
<br></div>_______________________________________________<br>sip-clf =
mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:sip-clf@ietf.org">sip-clf@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip-clf">https://www.ietf.or=
g/mailman/listinfo/sip-clf</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blo=
ckquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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From peter.musgrave@magorcorp.com  Mon Feb 28 08:33:54 2011
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From: Peter Musgrave <peter.musgrave@magorcorp.com>
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Subject: [sip-clf] Fwd: SIPCLF - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 80
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Hi all,=20

Agenda thus far will be the problem statement and text format doc.=20

Any additions?

Regards,=20

Peter Musgrave

Begin forwarded message:

> From: IETF Secretariat <agenda@ietf.org>
> Date: February 24, 2011 6:36:47 PM EST
> To: Peter.Musgrave@magorcorp.com
> Cc: gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com, rjsparks@nostrum.com, =
session-request@ietf.org
> Subject: SIPCLF - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 80=20
>=20
> Dear Peter Musgrave,
>=20
> The sessions that you have requested have been scheduled.
> Below is the scheduled session information followed by=20
> the information of sessions that you have requested.
>=20
> SIPCLF Session 1 (1 hour)
> Friday, Afternoon Session I 1300-1400
> Room Name: Karlin II & III
> ----------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Requested Information:
>=20
>=20
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Working Group Name: sipclf
> Area Name: Real-time Applications and Infrastructure Area
> Session Requester: Peter Musgrave
>=20
> Number of Sessions: 1
> Length of Session(s):  1 hour
>=20
>=20
> Number of Attendees: 50
> Conflicts to Avoid:
>  First Priority: ipfix opsarea opsawg eman  sipcore siprec avt =
dispatch alto soc cuss clue
>=20
> Special Requests:
>=20
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20


--Apple-Mail-37-628627744
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	charset=us-ascii

<html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi =
all,&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Agenda thus far will be the problem =
statement and text format doc.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Any =
additions?</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><di=
v>Peter Musgrave<br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>From: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">IETF Secretariat =
&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:agenda@ietf.org">agenda@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br></span></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Date: </b></span><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">February 24, 2011 =
6:36:47 PM EST<br></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, =
1);"><b>To: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium;"><a =
href=3D"mailto:Peter.Musgrave@magorcorp.com">Peter.Musgrave@magorcorp.com<=
/a><br></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, =
1);"><b>Cc: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium;"><a =
href=3D"mailto:gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com">gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.=
com</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:rjsparks@nostrum.com">rjsparks@nostrum.com</a>,=
 <a =
href=3D"mailto:session-request@ietf.org">session-request@ietf.org</a><br><=
/span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, =
1);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
font-size:medium;"><b>SIPCLF - Requested session has been scheduled for =
IETF 80 </b><br></span></div><br><div>Dear Peter Musgrave,<br><br>The =
sessions that you have requested have been scheduled.<br>Below is the =
scheduled session information followed by <br>the information of =
sessions that you have requested.<br><br>SIPCLF Session 1 (1 =
hour)<br>Friday, Afternoon Session I 1300-1400<br>Room Name: Karlin II =
&amp; =
III<br>----------------------------------------------<br><br><br><br>Reque=
sted =
Information:<br><br><br>--------------------------------------------------=
-------<br>Working Group Name: sipclf<br>Area Name: Real-time =
Applications and Infrastructure Area<br>Session Requester: Peter =
Musgrave<br><br>Number of Sessions: 1<br>Length of Session(s): &nbsp;1 =
hour<br><br><br>Number of Attendees: 50<br>Conflicts to Avoid:<br> =
&nbsp;First Priority: ipfix opsarea opsawg eman &nbsp;sipcore siprec avt =
dispatch alto soc cuss clue<br><br>Special =
Requests:<br><br>---------------------------------------------------------=
<br><br><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-37-628627744--
