From nobody Sun Jul 3 07:19:54 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipbrandy@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B44FC12D743; Fri, 1 Jul 2016 08:36:52 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.25.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160701153652.24636.24007.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2016 08:36:52 -0700 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 03 Jul 2016 07:19:53 -0700 Cc: sipbrandy@ietf.org, sipbrandy-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG Subject: [Sipbrandy] WG Action: Formed SIP Best-practice Recommendations Against Network Dangers to privacY (sipbrandy) X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2016 15:36:53 -0000 A new IETF WG has been formed in the Applications and Real-Time Area. For additional information, please contact the Area Directors or the WG Chair. SIP Best-practice Recommendations Against Network Dangers to privacY (sipbrandy) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Current status: Proposed WG Chairs: Gonzalo Camarillo Assigned Area Director: Ben Campbell Applications and Real-Time Area Directors: Ben Campbell Alissa Cooper Alexey Melnikov Mailing list: Address: sipbrandy@ietf.org To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipbrandy Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/sipbrandy/ Charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-sipbrandy/ SIP with the SDP Offer/Answer model, along with RTP are widely used in modern communications networks. But while secure RTP (SRTP) is available to provide integrity and privacy protection to such communication, it is rarely used end-to-end. This lack is due to several factors, notably the pervasive use of signaling and media intermediaries in such networks and the difficulties involved in deployment of strong identity mechanisms for SIP. These factors are complicated by the fact that there are several incompatible approaches to SRTP key exchange. The current situation is unacceptable in the face of pervasive monitoring, which RFC 7258 describes as "an attack on privacy". In addition, the STIR working group is, at the time of this writing, revising RFC 4744 to make strong identity attestations for SIP easier to deploy. This gives the IETF an opportunity to define best practices to improve privacy protections for users of SIP based communication, in ways that improve upon the status-quo. Objectives: The SIPBRANDY working group will define best practices for establishing two-party, SIP-signaled SRTP sessions with end-to-end security associations, including a single, preferred SRTP key exchange mechanism. These practices are expected to be deployable across typical SIP networks, without the sharing of SRTP keying material with intermediaries or third parties. These practices should protect against man-in-the-middle attacks. While confidentiality is the first priority of the working group, it may work on aligning these practices with WebRTC, for example by defining best practices for ensuring recipients of media flows have indicated the desire to receive them, in order to prevent or mitigate the denial-of- service attack described in RFC 5245, section 18.5.1. Likewise, the WG may consider compatibility with aspects of PERC. The working group will additionally coordinate with the MMUSIC working group to define opportunistic security [RFC 7435] for SIP-signaled media sessions for situations where strong protections are not necessary or not feasible. Non-Goals: The working group is not expected to define practices for multi-party session topologies, especially those involving media distribution devices. The working group is not expected to define new protocols or modify existing ones; rather it will define practices for using existing protocols. If the working group discovers gaps that require creation or modification protocols, it will forward those gaps to the appropriate working groups. Inputs and Collaboration: The WG will consider draft-peterson-dispatch-rtpsec and draft-johnston-dispatch-osrtp as input to the work. The WG is expected to collaborate closely with SIPCORE, AVTCORE, STIR, MMUSIC, RTCWEB, PERC, and possibly DISPATCH. Milestones: Aug 2016 - Draft Adoption - Best Practices for end-to-end SRTP Nov 2016 - Draft Adoption - Best Practices for Opportunistic SRTP Mar 2017 - Submit End-to-End SRTP draft to the IESG for consideration as BGP Mar 2017 - Inform MMUSIC or other appropriate WGs of any changes needed to support Opportunistic SRTP (Not expected to be published as an RFC) Nov 2017 - Submit Opportunistic SRTP draft to IESG for consideration as BGP From nobody Sun Jul 3 07:19:59 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipbrandy@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8740A12D09F for ; Fri, 1 Jul 2016 22:01:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.25.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160702050153.24690.65190.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2016 22:01:53 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 03 Jul 2016 07:19:53 -0700 Subject: [Sipbrandy] Milestones changed for sipbrandy WG X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2016 05:01:53 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit End-to-End SRTP draft to the IESG for consideration as BGP", set description to "Submit End-to-End SRTP draft to the IESG for consideration as BCP". Changed milestone "Submit Opportunistic SRTP draft to IESG for consideration as BGP", set description to "Submit Opportunistic SRTP draft to IESG for consideration as BCP". URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/sipbrandy/charter/ From nobody Fri Jul 8 16:25:55 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4953D12B01F for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2016 16:25:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O1RAspTiuWv9 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2016 16:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com (mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A06212D529 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2016 16:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0078668.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com (8.16.0.17/8.16.0.17) with SMTP id u68Mh7Hq011338 for ; Fri, 8 Jul 2016 18:51:48 -0400 Received: from stntexhc12.cis.neustar.com ([156.154.17.216]) by mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2425d323mu-1 (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 18:51:47 -0400 Received: from STNTEXMB10.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.5.94]) by stntexhc12.cis.neustar.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0279.002; Fri, 8 Jul 2016 18:51:46 -0400 From: "Peterson, Jon" To: "sipbrandy@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: hello world (was re: New Version Notification for draft-peterson-sipbrandy-rtpsec-00.txt) Thread-Index: AQHR2WtO33zy4QO7hk6gSo1LDURjng== Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 22:51:46 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.3.160329 x-originating-ip: [10.96.12.104] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D3A57C911A583Fjonpetersonneustarbiz_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-07-08_13:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1604210000 definitions=main-1607080223 Archived-At: Subject: [Sipbrandy] hello world (was re: New Version Notification for draft-peterson-sipbrandy-rtpsec-00.txt) X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 23:25:54 -0000 --_000_D3A57C911A583Fjonpetersonneustarbiz_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just posted a new version of the RTPSEC draft, now branded for the brand-= new SIPBRANDY working group. For those just joining us, this specification = is intended to define best practices for SIP user agents to keep media conf= idential, with special concern for the threat of pervasive monitoring. As s= uch, this is mostly an umbrella draft collecting existing work and explaini= ng how these pieces come together to provide the needed properties. You can= find the draft here: https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-peterson-= sipbrandy-rtpsec-00.txt Notable changes from the previous (dispatch) version include the following: - As we heard some interest in making sure this played well with conferenci= ng, there's now a mandate for perc-double, though not much supporting text = yet. - There's now a mandate for ICE, and moreover for STUN consent freshness, a= s we heard some concern about voice hammering and related attacks. - The draft now permits the use of self-signed keys to sign rfc4474bis with= in a "STIR profile for media confidentiality", which also requires that UAs= implement the authentication and verification service roles of STIR. That = entailed a number of related behaviors. - There's some tentative text about the interaction between rfc4916 connect= ed identity, ICE, and rfc4474bis, though this clearly requires some more th= inking. For now I'm happy to just have some preliminary text there. - Perhaps most notably, the draft mandates support for DTLS-SRTP, and makes= support for other confidentiality mechanisms optional. At this stage, I want to make sure we've captured the requirements space, a= nd that we're not missing anything in terms of behavior we need to incorpor= ate. But certainly we'd be happy to hear any other comments about the draft= . Jon Peterson Neustar, Inc. --_000_D3A57C911A583Fjonpetersonneustarbiz_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I just posted a new version of the RTPSEC draft, now branded for the b= rand-new SIPBRANDY working group. For those just joining us, this specifica= tion is intended to define best practices for SIP user agents to keep media= confidential, with special concern for the threat of pervasive monitoring. As such, this is mostly an umbrell= a draft collecting existing work and explaining how these pieces come toget= her to provide the needed properties. You can find the draft here:

https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-peterson-sipbrandy-= rtpsec-00.txt

Notable changes from the previous (dispatch) version include the follo= wing:

- As we heard some interest in making sure this played well with confe= rencing, there's now a mandate for perc-double, though not much supporting = text yet.

- There's now a mandate for ICE, and moreover for STUN consent freshne= ss, as we heard some concern about voice hammering and related attacks.

- The draft now permits the use of self-signed keys to sign rfc4474bis= within a "STIR profile for media confidentiality", which also re= quires that UAs implement the authentication and verification service roles= of STIR. That entailed a number of related behaviors.

- There's some tentative text about the interaction between rfc4916 co= nnected identity, ICE, and rfc4474bis, though this clearly requires some mo= re thinking. For now I'm happy to just have some preliminary text there.

- Perhaps most notably, the draft mandates support for DTLS-SRTP, and = makes support for other confidentiality mechanisms optional.

At this stage, I want to make sure we've captured the requirements spa= ce, and that we're not missing anything in terms of behavior we need to inc= orporate. But certainly we'd be happy to hear any other comments about the = draft.

Jon Peterson
Neustar, Inc.
--_000_D3A57C911A583Fjonpetersonneustarbiz_-- From nobody Sat Jul 9 00:11:37 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA5C12D0E1 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 00:11:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h3egSwxfsK84 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 00:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E885012B020 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 00:11:32 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f79f26d00000327e-16-5780a3a2b56b Received: from ESESSHC012.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.54]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 88.95.12926.2A3A0875; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 09:11:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [131.160.126.84] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.294.0; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 09:11:30 +0200 To: "Peterson, Jon" , "sipbrandy@ietf.org" References: From: Gonzalo Camarillo Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 10:11:30 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7me7ixQ3hBiufs1ucabC0WLHuFJMD k8eSJT+ZPHY0PGcOYIrisklJzcksSy3St0vgyrj++y5jwQftit4lT1gbGG9odTFyckgImEhs bnrKBmGLSVy4tx7I5uIQEjjCKPFp4iRWCGc1o8SvgzsZQaqEBUokHtw6AGRzcIgIREvMfGMC EhYSMJP48GM5M4jNJmAhseXWfRYQm1fAXmJ1xx2wOIuAisT+9rNMILaoQIxE4+3D7BA1ghIn Zz4Bq+cUMJfoO9gDdhCzgIHEkUVzWCFsRYkp3Q/ZIXZpSyx/1sIygVFgFpL2WUhaZiFpWcDI vIpRtDi1OCk33chYL7UoM7m4OD9PLy+1ZBMjMCgPbvmtuoPx8hvHQ4wCHIxKPLwKr+rDhVgT y4orcw8xSnAwK4nw/p3XEC7Em5JYWZValB9fVJqTWnyIUZqDRUmc1/+lYriQQHpiSWp2ampB ahFMlomDU6qBUeqvh4sho+Q3tqKnjtdr3dcdWXrMkGH7pf1Vl034Tshfv9f+80zSttkHjq1q U7SwYEnuu9fru+H36cD9TGmC+z9fu+Tzo2fnOQn19/lbPVm4+fp/SGjq2KwLjzNi3Mu+Ptr0 ku7TcyczZuWvmpr0sP8v5y3ZJTv4nNm9pmbFJRziLp59l9dkvxJLcUaioRZzUXEiAIBolEBG AgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sipbrandy] hello world (was re: New Version Notification for draft-peterson-sipbrandy-rtpsec-00.txt) X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4767B12B02E for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 10:52:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ec6QD2MsIPtp for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 10:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-0018ba01.pphosted.com (mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2FB7127077 for ; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 10:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0078666.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com (8.16.0.17/8.16.0.17) with SMTP id u69Hh1tl028573; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 13:52:34 -0400 Received: from stntexhc10.cis.neustar.com ([156.154.17.216]) by mx0a-0018ba01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 242wcq0kkp-1 (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sat, 09 Jul 2016 13:52:34 -0400 Received: from STNTEXMB10.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.5.94]) by stntexhc10.cis.neustar.com ([169.254.4.225]) with mapi id 14.03.0279.002; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 13:52:33 -0400 From: "Peterson, Jon" To: Gonzalo Camarillo Thread-Topic: [Sipbrandy] hello world (was re: New Version Notification for draft-peterson-sipbrandy-rtpsec-00.txt) Thread-Index: AQHR2WtO33zy4QO7hk6gSo1LDURjnqAP8nIAgACx7gA= Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 17:52:32 +0000 Message-ID: <91D07AA1-1A76-4BC8-AA2C-02E5576EA45F@neustar.biz> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <5DFDC3423CFEF54DA723296E36CABCE6@neustar.biz> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-07-09_10:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1604210000 definitions=main-1607090194 Archived-At: Cc: "sipbrandy@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Sipbrandy] hello world (was re: New Version Notification for draft-peterson-sipbrandy-rtpsec-00.txt) X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2016 17:52:39 -0000 Yes, do plan on having a presentation from me in Berlin, please. And I will= have a bit of tutorial material for those who missed the previous DISPATCH= discussion.=20 Thanks! Jon Peterson Neustar, Inc. Sent from my iPad > On Jul 9, 2016, at 12:11 AM, Gonzalo Camarillo wrote: >=20 > Hi Jon, >=20 > thanks for revising the draft. As you know, we will have a session in > the upcoming IETF meeting in Berlin: >=20 > 18:30-19:30 Thursday Afternoon session III >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/96/agenda.html >=20 > Would you or one of your co-authors be able to discuss this draft in > that session? While I expect presentations to focus on open issues, as > usual, this one could include more introductory material (motivation, > rational, goals, etc.) since we are just starting this WG and we want > everyone to be on the same page regarding what we are trying to do... >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Gonzalo >=20 >> On 09/07/2016 1:51 AM, Peterson, Jon wrote: >>=20 >> I just posted a new version of the RTPSEC draft, now branded for the >> brand-new SIPBRANDY working group. For those just joining us, this >> specification is intended to define best practices for SIP user agents >> to keep media confidential, with special concern for the threat of >> pervasive monitoring. As such, this is mostly an umbrella draft >> collecting existing work and explaining how these pieces come together >> to provide the needed properties. You can find the draft here: >>=20 >> <= https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-peterson-sipbrandy-rtpsec-00.txt>https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-peters= on-sipbrandy-rtpsec-00.txt >>=20 >> Notable changes from the previous (dispatch) version include the followi= ng: >>=20 >> - As we heard some interest in making sure this played well with >> conferencing, there's now a mandate for perc-double, though not much >> supporting text yet. >>=20 >> - There's now a mandate for ICE, and moreover for STUN consent >> freshness, as we heard some concern about voice hammering and related >> attacks. >>=20 >> - The draft now permits the use of self-signed keys to sign rfc4474bis >> within a "STIR profile for media confidentiality", which also requires >> that UAs implement the authentication and verification service roles of >> STIR. That entailed a number of related behaviors. >>=20 >> - There's some tentative text about the interaction between rfc4916 >> connected identity, ICE, and rfc4474bis, though this clearly requires >> some more thinking. For now I'm happy to just have some preliminary text >> there. >>=20 >> - Perhaps most notably, the draft mandates support for DTLS-SRTP, and >> makes support for other confidentiality mechanisms optional. >>=20 >> At this stage, I want to make sure we've captured the requirements >> space, and that we're not missing anything in terms of behavior we need >> to incorporate. But certainly we'd be happy to hear any other comments >> about the draft. >>=20 >> Jon Peterson >> Neustar, Inc. From nobody Sun Jul 10 01:13:42 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74CE012B01A for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2016 01:13:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kop3OzKvQ3IQ for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2016 01:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0947B12B00F for ; Sun, 10 Jul 2016 01:13:37 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f79f26d00000327e-3e-578203af56d5 Received: from ESESSHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.24]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 83.40.12926.FA302875; Sun, 10 Jul 2016 10:13:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [131.160.126.84] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.294.0; Sun, 10 Jul 2016 10:13:34 +0200 To: "Peterson, Jon" References: <91D07AA1-1A76-4BC8-AA2C-02E5576EA45F@neustar.biz> From: Gonzalo Camarillo Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 11:13:34 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <91D07AA1-1A76-4BC8-AA2C-02E5576EA45F@neustar.biz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7hO565qZwg63N2hZnGiwtVqw7xeTA 5LFkyU8mjx0Nz5kDmKK4bFJSczLLUov07RK4Ml5vXcVe8MC44vHvRpYGxjVGXYycHBICJhLP pn5ihrDFJC7cW8/WxcjFISRwhFFi58oDjBDOGkaJR1dbWUGqhAVKJB7cAklwcogI6El8+z6D CaJoIaPEnL5f7CAJZgFdiSMfZ4A1sAlYSGy5dZ8FxOYVsJd4e3ApWA2LgKrEyqcz2UBsUYEY icbbh9khagQlTs58AlTPwcEJVL/xShLESAOJI4vmsELYihJTuh+ClQsJaEssf9bCMoFRcBaS 7llIWmYhaVnAyLyKUbQ4tTgpN93IWC+1KDO5uDg/Ty8vtWQTIzBcD275rbqD8fIbx0OMAhyM Sjy8D4obw4VYE8uKK3MPMUpwMCuJ8LozNIUL8aYkVlalFuXHF5XmpBYfYpTmYFES5/V/qRgu JJCeWJKanZpakFoEk2Xi4JRqYJz81zzqqK5TV4vQuRsGWX1l+hM2MrMk5QZMeF96ZJLJv7OL XF6GCT39Hz1zDVuzU/QlVvvORjcjzzPzCrW9u1/1K17ILVEQaairfsy3n8HWKX/yit0Rdwqn Sjql2P17t3vZt0Vz53uHv30+sUB5h/yHijCfuNMTVyp53v5lusest+BMyu3LH5VYijMSDbWY i4oTAWuKr5NTAgAA Archived-At: Cc: "sipbrandy@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Sipbrandy] hello world (was re: New Version Notification for draft-peterson-sipbrandy-rtpsec-00.txt) X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: 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sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F71612B01B for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2016 01:55:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EOnNKiB6zNOV for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2016 01:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x22b.google.com (mail-qk0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 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b=fm/KuLpDNehA6tYpjQAnSSiC9jK8rT6ftcPlaqY466q51Xu+OgzmoutovsnL21Q0Hh y26job8UEGBXb1cr1BqZZsCVeMjNB7RT2JIq6vrhKdhYvpPJjQdY4eNBWAjh5IzMiqLI BsAOuuNwMSzr2HCrhGLXG8twlrjjhbPJU+Q1fg003z/bj2cUi5RpIdY0NYItn+yNVCUE jPLzpkQjngKeFaKPBh9yUVxs11E1M77nTEu0398ljhhR8NgiMBHnczEkV8hSyY9mPT4O +XElJr5TneI4xt0BbtheIztDNY+y4FcEkY1GBWd6I/O+10vrDFHxfURaMA4xSmGdTO98 1RQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tJm44JlI+cChUjkwJlju0Ch61nY//jXnhrAQdKgfSuaJknfmUjBkME0BC2fWClo/DdsVJaxqVGj0A73gA== X-Received: by 10.55.26.11 with SMTP id a11mr35309468qka.205.1468745717320; Sun, 17 Jul 2016 01:55:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.55.3.138 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Jul 2016 01:55:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Johnston Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 01:55:16 -0700 Message-ID: To: sipbrandy@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1147195cbf18530537d102a6 Archived-At: Subject: [Sipbrandy] Comments on draft-peterson-sipbrandy-rtpsec-00 X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 08:55:20 -0000 --001a1147195cbf18530537d102a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 All, I've reviewed draft-peterson-sipbrandy-rtpsec-00 and have a few comments. Overall, the content seems OK, although I'm surprised at the number of open issues and Internet-Drafts referenced. It is hard to believe that this is our situation after 15 years of SIP (RFC 3261) and 12 years of SRTP (RFC 3711)... Section 3.2 begins with: Work is already underway on defining approaches to opportunistic media security for SIP in [I-D.johnston-dispatch-osrtp], which builds on the prior efforts of [I-D.kaplan-mmusic-best-effort-srtp]. Instead of a reference to the Kaplan draft, which is already referenced and credited in the OSRTP draft, perhaps it would be better to say: Work is already underway on defining approaches to opportunistic media security for SIP in [I-D.johnston-dispatch-osrtp], which reflects common industry implementations. In Section 5, this statement: Both DTLS-SRTP and ZRTP instead provide hashes which are carried in SDP, and thus require only integrity protection rather than confidentiality. isn't quite accurate, since it implies that ZRTP requires integrity protected signaling. It would be better to say: DTLS-SRTP provides a hash which is carried in SDP, and thus requires only integrity protection rather than confidentiality. ZRTP can also provide a hash to make use of integrity protected signaling, however, it does not rely on it. One nit: The short title seems to be "RTP Security" - probably this should mention SIP as well. - Alan - --001a1147195cbf18530537d102a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
All,

I've reviewed draft-peter= son-sipbrandy-rtpsec-00 and have a few comments.

O= verall, the content seems OK, although I'm surprised at the number of o= pen issues and Internet-Drafts referenced.=C2=A0 It is hard to believe that= this is our situation after 15 years of SIP (RFC 3261) and 12 years of SRT= P (RFC 3711)...

Section 3.2 begins with:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Work is already underway on defining approache= s to opportunistic
=C2=A0 =C2=A0media security for SIP in [I-D.jo= hnston-dispatch-osrtp], which builds
=C2=A0 =C2=A0on the prior ef= forts of [I-D.kaplan-mmusic-best-effort-srtp].

Ins= tead of a reference to the Kaplan draft, which is already referenced and cr= edited in the OSRTP draft, perhaps it would be better to say:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Work is already underway on defining approaches to= opportunistic
=C2=A0 =C2=A0media security for SIP in [I-D.johnst= on-dispatch-osrtp], which reflects
=C2=A0 =C2=A0common industry i= mplementations.

In Section 5, this statement:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Both DTLS-SRTP and ZRTP instead provide h= ashes which are carried in SDP, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0thus require onl= y integrity protection rather than confidentiality.

isn't quite accurate, since it implies that ZRTP requires integrity p= rotected signaling.=C2=A0 It would be better to say:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0DTLS-SRTP provides a hash which is carried in SDP, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0thus requires only integrity protection rather than conf= identiality.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0ZRTP can also provide a hash to make us= e of integrity protected signaling,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0however, it does= not rely on it.

One nit: The short title seems to= be "RTP Security" - probably this should mention SIP as well.

- Alan -
--001a1147195cbf18530537d102a6-- From nobody Sun Jul 17 03:49:09 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 314F112D516 for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2016 03:49:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QB-BaonXZ_-h for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2016 03:49:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14AD312D0B1 for ; Sun, 17 Jul 2016 03:49:05 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f79f26d00000327e-d5-578b62a02023 Received: from ESESSHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.39]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 68.F6.12926.0A26B875; Sun, 17 Jul 2016 12:49:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [131.160.126.84] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.41) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.294.0; Sun, 17 Jul 2016 12:49:03 +0200 To: Alan Johnston , References: From: Gonzalo Camarillo Message-ID: Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 12:49:03 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7uu6CpO5wgxON0hYzW1tZLFasO8Xk wOSxc9Zddo8lS34yBTBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGWc2L2ErWCXQMXyI5OYGxj/83QxcnJICJhI TN49kRXCFpO4cG89WxcjF4eQwBFGiTWfpzOBJIQE1jBKHJpaCmILC7hL3NtynxHEFhFwlti1 aTs7RE2AxObLX5hBbDYBC4ktt+6zgNi8AvYSv55/BatnEVCV6F/wDijOwSEqECOxvi8BokRQ 4uTMJ2DlnAKBEhMOLgYbySxgIHFk0RxWCFteYvvbOcwQq7Qllj9rYZnAKDALSfssJC2zkLQs YGRexShanFqclJtuZKyXWpSZXFycn6eXl1qyiREYlAe3/FbdwXj5jeMhRgEORiUe3oR1XeFC rIllxZW5hxglOJiVRHiTErvDhXhTEiurUovy44tKc1KLDzFKc7AoifP6v1QMFxJITyxJzU5N LUgtgskycXBKNTB6yiwIzXvIJPQqvXWC7x//Fw4Vc1K5dWWO/TMyubo9qq1vctbqXcsrAlb2 bl9utGIb8wWdjN/+ajc1mP0n21aobivZf2zS4wLerXf2zNA2OF0195jSXda11zU4/l7R357E qTHnoFfUjG+c4r0JD7u+933dZMhQUbV8vx3DFNaD8s/iz2tumbdciaU4I9FQi7moOBEAplrj KEYCAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sipbrandy] Comments on draft-peterson-sipbrandy-rtpsec-00 X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2016 10:49:08 -0000 Thanks Alan for getting the discussion started. The mailing list has been very quiet so far. All, it would be useful to start the conversations we need to have by email in preparation for our face-to-face session this week. Cheers, Gonzalo On 17/07/2016 10:55 AM, Alan Johnston wrote: > All, > > I've reviewed draft-peterson-sipbrandy-rtpsec-00 and have a few comments. > > Overall, the content seems OK, although I'm surprised at the number of > open issues and Internet-Drafts referenced. It is hard to believe that > this is our situation after 15 years of SIP (RFC 3261) and 12 years of > SRTP (RFC 3711)... > > Section 3.2 begins with: > > Work is already underway on defining approaches to opportunistic > media security for SIP in [I-D.johnston-dispatch-osrtp], which builds > on the prior efforts of [I-D.kaplan-mmusic-best-effort-srtp]. > > Instead of a reference to the Kaplan draft, which is already referenced > and credited in the OSRTP draft, perhaps it would be better to say: > > Work is already underway on defining approaches to opportunistic > media security for SIP in [I-D.johnston-dispatch-osrtp], which reflects > common industry implementations. > > In Section 5, this statement: > > Both DTLS-SRTP and ZRTP instead provide hashes which are carried in > SDP, and > thus require only integrity protection rather than confidentiality. > > isn't quite accurate, since it implies that ZRTP requires integrity > protected signaling. It would be better to say: > > DTLS-SRTP provides a hash which is carried in SDP, and > thus requires only integrity protection rather than confidentiality. > ZRTP can also provide a hash to make use of integrity protected > signaling, > however, it does not rely on it. > > One nit: The short title seems to be "RTP Security" - probably this > should mention SIP as well. > > - Alan - > > > _______________________________________________ > Sipbrandy mailing list > Sipbrandy@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipbrandy > From nobody Thu Jul 21 08:21:42 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 232A812D741 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2016 08:21:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Tue, 26 Jul 2016 20:10:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [131.160.126.84] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.80) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 20:10:12 +0200 To: From: Gonzalo Camarillo Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 21:10:11 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmphluLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbHdT7d1+fRwg2N/1CxWrDvF5MDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujKOzlzAXLGGsWPprIlMDYztjFyMnh4SAicTr+/+BbC4OIYH1 jBL3LkxngXDWMEpsPjybDaRKREBC4sPvSywgNpuAhcSWW/fBbGEBY4k9c4+xgti8AvYSN48e ZgKxWQRUJQ7cfwhUw8EhKhAjsb4vAaJEUOLkzCdgYWYBTYn1u/RBwswC8hLb385hBrGFBLQl lj9rYZnAyDsLSccshI5ZSDoWMDKvYhQtTi0uzk03MtJLLcpMLi7Oz9PLSy3ZxAgMm4Nbflvt YDz43PEQowAHoxIP74LgaeFCrIllxZW5hxglOJiVRHjVl0wPF+JNSaysSi3Kjy8qzUktPsQo zcGiJM7r/1IxXEggPbEkNTs1tSC1CCbLxMEp1cDIpLppp/Wv7R9Pzyooe7RUaO3JIpPpx6Oi Fead6WO0EX6y0j1GvO3zR50S+SyPyCO7jFn/7xbP2rF51zMuiUsyrW8C1U8UNdbZTTjLHj9L Xn62phzbw9rbjE3PMt35Fzpab7z2U0hC9nZBxf8PPx6ofivI5HPws5BZ++uE5LOsM+ddOJfe Vz+rxFKckWioxVxUnAgARj29IRcCAAA= Archived-At: Subject: [Sipbrandy] Minutes of the SIPBRANDY session in Berlin X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 18:10:17 -0000 Folks, I have just posted the draft minutes of our session in Berlin: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/96/minutes/minutes-96-sipbrandy Cheers, Gonzalo