From nobody Tue May 1 14:18:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipbrandy@ietf.org Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52AF012EA95; Tue, 1 May 2018 14:18:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.79.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152520950330.24788.3224072542221684209@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 01 May 2018 14:18:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Sipbrandy] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sipbrandy-rtpsec-04.txt X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 May 2018 21:18:23 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the SIP Best-practice Recommendations Against Network Dangers to privacY WG of the IETF. Title : Best Practices for Securing RTP Media Signaled with SIP Authors : Jon Peterson Eric Rescorla Richard Barnes Russ Housley Filename : draft-ietf-sipbrandy-rtpsec-04.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2018-05-01 Abstract: Although the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) includes a suite of security services that has been expanded by numerous specifications over the years, there is no single place that explains how to use SIP to establish confidential media sessions. Additionally, existing mechanisms have some feature gaps that need to be identified and resolved in order for them to address the pervasive monitoring threat model. This specification describes best practices for negotiating confidential media with SIP, including both comprehensive protection solutions which bind the media to SIP-layer identities as well as opportunistic security solutions. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sipbrandy-rtpsec/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipbrandy-rtpsec-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sipbrandy-rtpsec-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sipbrandy-rtpsec-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu May 24 04:22:30 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42C6212DA2B for ; Thu, 24 May 2018 04:22:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hfmjkWBF2Uz4 for ; Thu, 24 May 2018 04:22:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x230.google.com (mail-vk0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E273712DA28 for ; Thu, 24 May 2018 04:22:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk0-x230.google.com with SMTP id i185-v6so748542vkg.3 for ; Thu, 24 May 2018 04:22:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=B6+UqSpqf6B4tMzdsuZ9WbnpjXLORIM0zYBEuRFIDqU=; b=s0jWi9j0zUy+ogPjt+psPg/Zfa3YQE7iH7l4SNHUbKdkdJ9PJIUa0WgcOMZWnaM4ZE YdrJTIXaJSZh2t9AYGQvqOIUZ+STVN4RSLr6baVndr1AXzqP+2EA3jth/BLUFPk8NgV6 +8ZyxoTNNbzXG5gwx+4lgNuRntkZsWdcbaF+R7tvsX+T+qQduFiRMGG2tFqSEHGez0eN gcnK2ywE2yL8gDxjMpFb4pHgI53V8bruBAGedV+277bTin0LQfQzMluV3VNcjWp7Ps8W NjKdEv2Th5oaPVld3C9c9Np1bf8fYmeZzet1ljVdHma00XldUQ6ciXXlJ382s26X5/GS US8w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=B6+UqSpqf6B4tMzdsuZ9WbnpjXLORIM0zYBEuRFIDqU=; b=kCD2iz5PjznGurtJtCN9QgDZFFLLTqKMtVjUWVmzXjqbStBnrJoA0cjOduosAARH7j wIHL/uU3BnhmW8Ih7u4W9Wun86tF7N2NKsc3FKugvXqWee3bJSnMY34WOU8eAe67viTm MXeaPEqmAOiOi3JO2rihh/7lx6BxMt8r9oQhtrn3HNBs/js0CMZEMCHSvkbZc7cL+P+t AU+2cHuiYPKKlLi6FDomsChIh9IQMx+uSltDIhTk77h1Hiphzr2iiDhFu+onuLtHBZyM 5hHfdLgvD0vaKnumSm/eaSLKv6oInkrIypT5A+QHXiEPXlyIddsIuwOEORn4Z2GEBED2 ucFg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwcWuS7SCYj2/DDv/ZHrPMekTsM7McBV/iqv34vyrqGYOWjdB1vo CdCmhS2nQAxQqNh/Qo9ERVB8xoqo9rA8GeCsnAQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZpxo0BH4DawjgKgGAsUmi6ZgsRfjTWJLPsShL44eS/Bs+3jxdoZ+DnjSxsW8Byg11QXf2xlg+fVGLFcZnvKUuM= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:990a:: with SMTP id b10-v6mr4288323vke.56.1527160943838; Thu, 24 May 2018 04:22:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a1f:9744:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 24 May 2018 04:22:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Andy Hutton Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 12:22:23 +0100 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "sipbrandy@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sipbrandy] WGLC: draft-ietf-sipbrandy-osrtp-04 - Christer's review X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 11:22:27 -0000 See below my responses to Christer's comments and sorry for the late respon= se. Andy On 20 April 2018 at 08:58, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > Hi, > > Below is my WGLC review. > > I base my review based on the assumption that the associated MMUSIC draft > is not going to be progressed, and that draft-ietf-sipbrandy-osrtp is the > ONLY deliverable related to OSRTP and SDP O/A. > > Also, some of my comments is repeating what I have said previously, but I > include them in my review in order to have everything in one place. > > > GENERAL: > -------- > > QG_1: The draft will be published as an Informational RFC (I know the > reason, so no need to discuss that). Because of that, many SDOs will not > be able to normatively reference it. So, if such SDO wants to adopt SDP > O/A procedures of OSRTP (I know there are SDOs, or at least SDO members, > interested in OSRTP), they would have to =C2=B3re-define=C2=B2 the proced= ures > themselves. > > I wonder whether it would be useful to include some text/guidance > regarding that in the document, i.e., recommending that such procedures > are based on the procedures in the draft, for interoperability purpose et= c? > [Andy H] - Personally I don't see the need for this but if you want this and want to provide text I would not object. > > QG_2: There are no BUNDLE considerations. Even though it may seem obvious= , > I think it would be useful to indicate that the same security selection > needs to be applied to all RTP-based m- sections within a BUNDLE group. > > [AndyH] - Good idea. > Section 1: > ---------- > > > Q1_1: Shall we really reference individual drafts that will not progress? > Couldn=C2=B9t we simply talk about =C2=B3based on previous work and studi= es done by > Hadriel Kaplan" > [AndyH] - I would prefer to keep the reference to the individual draft given that this draft is informational I think it is good information to have and the kaplan draft referenced is well known. > > Section 3: > ---------- > > Q3_1: I don=C2=B9t understand the title of the section. Shouldn=C2=B9t it= be =C2=B3SDP > Offer/Answer Procedures=C2=B2? [AndyH] - I agrree that would be a better title for the section. > > Q3_2: Eventhough the document is Informational, since Section 3 does > contain O/A text I think it should be done properly, describing how the > offer is generated, how the answer is generated etc. > [AndyH - I believe the text has all the relevant information but it could rewritten in the traditional form of "Generating the Initial SDP Offer" and "Generating the SDP Answer" I don't have a strong opinion on this but just want to get this done so whatever allows it to get done gets my vote. > > Q3_3: There is no text on subsequent offers. If security has been > negotiated in a previous O/A exchange, what profile values etc do I > include in subsequent offers? > [AndyH] - I don't see any special procedures for subsequent offers it is the same as the initial offer if we have to update the document it may be worth pointing this out. > > Section 4: > ---------- > > Q4_1: Doesn=C2=B9t the last paragraph belong in the Applicability section= ? [AndyH] - It is I think good to say when not to use these procedures in the security considerations but it could also be considered part of the applicability section. I think as long as it is stated in the document we are okay. > > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > > > > > On 19/04/18 14:21, "Sipbrandy on behalf of Gonzalo Camarillo" > > wrote: > >>Folks, >> >>I would like to start a WGLC on the following draft. This WGLC will >>end on May 10th: >> >>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sipbrandy-osrtp-04 >> >>Thanks, >> >>Gonzalo >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sipbrandy mailing list >>Sipbrandy@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipbrandy > > _______________________________________________ > Sipbrandy mailing list > Sipbrandy@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipbrandy From nobody Thu May 24 04:53:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1367126CD6 for ; Thu, 24 May 2018 04:53:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] 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List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xLcSPxQOnOJ12FNAv4rrP88FGosT6B5+6kkQj7z1G1s=; b=e/N9LON86F0OEwOBgOajEx5yO5QyAs7Qcw5MFiN664dvB8N/F6sZxjqplTuU4+3G fTVcgLOW5wzvywEPBcprsxGnr6B7if4CVMLW8+Or9p5SKmwrZOsCEJil+eXp6LVD UXrs/DnMCoSaXBsGnr9Mb8djjJaA9Rnvt3w4knrtDFs=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-932519c0000065fb-c4-5b06a7b83496 Received: from ESESSHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.21]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 0B.BC.26107.8B7A60B5; Thu, 24 May 2018 13:53:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB109.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.29]) by ESESSHC001.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.21]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Thu, 24 May 2018 13:53:26 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Andy Hutton CC: "sipbrandy@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Sipbrandy] WGLC: draft-ietf-sipbrandy-osrtp-04 - Christer's review Thread-Index: AQHT2H1MtettfGxkckGZ8W9pjatITaQ+0HeAgAAnchA= Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 11:53:25 +0000 Message-ID: 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b=uBbwoYM57KgQgTqnFYnogvrmLePK2PoFX4+SX1VPzb2MqZ5syiFAXzLM3q6oEZOISp MIFYwO8WJGICiDXXvcvFbIG5vp3Xhs7+yRpBnbEx/cHZ79+JU5q7jIe7E9XXMrzu6pDm +MRGPvM5uzx09D3jai3EdhApCO3o0sLsXSwD0yrmYFxfYz1uoh9LL7Jh5AWGf9gAUbwY hdY7Z0Ey5mHLLnYmDs5umu5OQ8JX3WZRbg2NrZ9oCFlHuh8msp2PiJkP8tkIdbUD7OY4 X27ajitqdbrALkIWIeCGfrzqHTMXI4Jv6Q/2ZD9aCJ9m7PxDUJk2wq40Ux5O59BcuJKg aKMg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwe7glLJ3Gg7tYpE0Ei7VWVpnNlV/uy2qr3X8+yrGFN+GiTuxZJz P/0Qa9DlktHUpVOIeCpX13BI+2dhjQizIEnLzzk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZrYkN/ScKjrvEq4FiT8aypM54h7kZUBoOkpAQ3Yt9ko+uZg8PErGYmxT9Wrs1YLpB3WJp+G6SAIOXroyUnC/ys= X-Received: by 2002:a9f:3271:: with SMTP id y46-v6mr4765879uad.122.1527164772686; Thu, 24 May 2018 05:26:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a1f:9744:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 24 May 2018 05:26:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72F05085@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72F05085@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> From: Andy Hutton Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 13:26:12 +0100 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "sipbrandy@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sipbrandy] WGLC: draft-ietf-sipbrandy-osrtp-04 - Christer's review X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 12:26:16 -0000 On 24 May 2018 at 12:53, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > Has there been discussions on whether the subsequent offer really is the same? Not sure whether this has been discussed explicitly with regard to this draft. > > For example, if the initial O/A has resulted in SAVP, would you still use AVP in a subsequent offer? > Yes the recommendation would be to use AVP in a subsequent offer otherwise things can go wrong when you consider things like 3PCC etc. > Whatever the outcome, it needs to be documented. > > From nobody Thu May 24 05:43:54 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0762E12DA4D for ; Thu, 24 May 2018 05:43:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tfr7FoPv1fyp for ; Thu, 24 May 2018 05:43:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51F09126D45 for ; Thu, 24 May 2018 05:43:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1527165828; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=0KoDx9pgR0es6EXdmIDFcR5q50ptyCpam+PreRI5Xw4=; b=fpN8H/Yu0IDteyZWmZY8tSiAuTqfF2o76+tFhn8BVseC+V1dAOaPZcbwQ2VFfMIM SkiLt8GXrUvsRooQOJe8S1mboF0oJplkZLSEO5aAvFjNWEDzfqlUzXtw6juKoJqR xrFjYA49wKp2URKEDmijDIZ3Qhh7VwovkPJ9fNAvNW4=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-5a1ff700000044b2-d0-5b06b3848560 Received: from ESESSHC011.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.51]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 37.2B.17586.483B60B5; Thu, 24 May 2018 14:43:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB109.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.29]) by ESESSHC011.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.51]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Thu, 24 May 2018 14:43:47 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Andy Hutton CC: "sipbrandy@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Sipbrandy] WGLC: draft-ietf-sipbrandy-osrtp-04 - Christer's review Thread-Index: AQHT2H1MtettfGxkckGZ8W9pjatITaQ+0HeAgAAnchD//+piAIAAJVKA Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 12:43:47 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72F05308@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72F05085@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.165] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Thu, 24 May 2018 05:51:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a1f:9744:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 24 May 2018 05:51:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72F05308@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72F05085@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72F05308@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> From: Andy Hutton Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 13:51:48 +0100 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "sipbrandy@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sipbrandy] WGLC: draft-ietf-sipbrandy-osrtp-04 - Christer's review X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 12:51:53 -0000 On 24 May 2018 at 13:43, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>> Has there been discussions on whether the subsequent offer really is the same? >> >> Not sure whether this has been discussed explicitly with regard to this draft. > > Where has it been discussed? The MMUSIC draft doesn't say anything about subsequent offers either. > >>> For example, if the initial O/A has resulted in SAVP, would you still use AVP in a subsequent offer? >> >> Yes the recommendation would be to use AVP in a subsequent offer otherwise things can go wrong when you consider things like 3PCC etc. > > What if the answerer, who included SAVP in the initial answer, sends a subsequent offer? Will it keep SAVP in that offer, or will it switch to AVP? > This really depends on the preferences of the answerer as to whether it requires SRTP or is willing to try OSRTP it is the same considerations as made when sending the initial offer. > Regards, > > Christer From nobody Thu May 24 06:12:16 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55B2212E895 for ; Thu, 24 May 2018 06:12:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M2jHJAnrCA0i for ; Thu, 24 May 2018 06:12:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4991B12EAA5 for ; Thu, 24 May 2018 06:12:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1527167525; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=cYisoW9njFbu56qlCu3L1uQyP6bmpFYHQkDhLTieZL0=; b=dJ5xSAxKXuvD1OQFmS3DdqoqdqqugG5x9Lmbu6b3KdwsD8dsjTMpHp5RrS3/Be8L mI+5g4KUbo161RozXWVBsG6+sQH5i61e2rAW1EUHLuv/jfYHYvVUknXpeV4RhBbI YJtnacB8y7UXYUdGJeKK52Obsuv3OdWsrjCytSH5oHg=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-77c239c00000451c-37-5b06ba25aa45 Received: from ESESSHC009.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.45]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 79.8F.17692.52AB60B5; Thu, 24 May 2018 15:12:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB109.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.29]) by ESESSHC009.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.45]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Thu, 24 May 2018 15:11:41 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Andy Hutton CC: "sipbrandy@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Sipbrandy] WGLC: draft-ietf-sipbrandy-osrtp-04 - Christer's review Thread-Index: AQHT2H1MtettfGxkckGZ8W9pjatITaQ+0HeAgAAnchD//+piAIAAJVKA///h1QCAADjngA== Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 13:11:40 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72F05085@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72F05308@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.7.170905 x-originating-ip: [131.160.50.130] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <9EDA3E89ED005946A5F6A9DC5CC1AD13@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprHIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2K7rq7qLrZog/Or1C0urdvKZLFi3Skm ByaPnbPusnssWfKTKYApissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugStj5/Z29oKH3BXv5m5naWBcy9nFyMkhIWAi MenoM8YuRi4OIYEjjBLP1/5lhnAWM0pc/LyDrYuRg4NNwEKi+582SIOIgLbEuyk7WEFsZgFd iSMfZ4DZwgJBEj1TdrNB1ARLPOo7yQJhh0l8/N0IVsMioCrx6fYXJpCRvALWEi0PqyFWzWCW OPD/IFicUyBQouFkBEg5o4CYxPdTa5ggVolL3HoynwniZgGJJXvOM0PYohIvH/8DGy8qoCex 4cRtdpAxEgJKErc3OEG06kncmDqFDcK2lvjWsYwFwtaWWLbwNdgYXgFBiZMzn7BMYBSfhWTb LCTts5C0z0LSPgtJ+wJG1lWMosWpxcW56UZGeqlFmcnFxfl5enmpJZsYgbF2cMtvqx2MB587 HmIU4GBU4uF9tYMtWog1say4MvcQowQHs5II74IkoBBvSmJlVWpRfnxRaU5q8SFGaQ4WJXFe pzSLKCGB9MSS1OzU1ILUIpgsEwenVAMj54Z61oAXdy7e/7H97c015nEHHL99uZU4Z76z9N9D z4rfp9gHaP/6FJ28SFUlfcGk0LMrbZ8+Ms/4s+VYlPZqsXkF0Wefmfmmq+nZVPoLymt1fnpz L7z6jb/QlOpZWR8alj9iXeB7eOsf05paJ/uL93cFGHctlvq06c8uK4EDnbem7pqWGfNBSYml OCPRUIu5qDgRAP06c2CxAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sipbrandy] WGLC: draft-ietf-sipbrandy-osrtp-04 - Christer's review X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 13:12:15 -0000 Hi, >>>>Has there been discussions on whether the subsequent offer really is >>>>the same? >>> >>> Not sure whether this has been discussed explicitly with regard to >>>this draft. >> >> Where has it been discussed? The MMUSIC draft doesn't say anything >>about subsequent offers either. >> >>>> For example, if the initial O/A has resulted in SAVP, would you still >>>>use AVP in a subsequent offer? >>> >>> Yes the recommendation would be to use AVP in a subsequent offer >>>otherwise things can go wrong when you consider things like 3PCC etc. >> >> What if the answerer, who included SAVP in the initial answer, sends a >>subsequent offer? Will it keep SAVP in that offer, or will it switch to >>AVP? >> > >This really depends on the preferences of the answerer as to whether >it requires SRTP or is willing to try OSRTP it is the same >considerations as made when sending the initial offer. So, that endpoint is allowed to require SRTP, but the endpoint that sent the initial offer must try OSRTP if it sends a subsequent offer??? I think the rules for subsequent offers shall be the same for both endpoints, i.e., either shall both endpoints be allowed to =B3require=B2 SR= TP in a subsequent offer, OR both endpoints must try OSRTP in a subsequent offer. In addition, if security was NOT negotiated in the in the initial o/a exchange, then I guess each endpoint can choose whether to use OSRTP or not in subsequent offers? Regards, Christer =09 From nobody Fri May 25 04:06:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B7D124F57 for ; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:06:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BH-JWdWYSbZB for ; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:06:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x229.google.com (mail-ua0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 827C4124D68 for ; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:06:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x229.google.com with SMTP id i3-v6so3196132uad.4 for ; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:06:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xPKDMEXgoV/Ka/ZROFiLUiX2y5Lf6x654mbfKcuJUec=; b=BsKTy3zHR1QVKkTMVmOolc6PuAhSj/rG3vVKExgfu2cloTTOpJpZa45Gz2ed+XqNUc CFG6WJ+M0c26zJpv90l8OUzVDGWf4vM6o+tiLcuKhNkt314Uu0oTDJuqcVfHpXz4ixza X5DVHQ83hpsx6UpSIBZPLk7lr8BXhYxUiU8KPW15rIQ7u4zqETaKyoF2nkC15XWZP47q K+Gy/k6IEZpLmQ9VY9C2FlEe6BNijFUu4VbDK5KhGP/TKQJLAZ2nztEkguXuyVwfyTzu L38HD+YsySz04NQ9jZxWInBGDYbLxxX//rbe6q2dFMOD1V6Ft90CdASQ8RvyXpA75k33 sewA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xPKDMEXgoV/Ka/ZROFiLUiX2y5Lf6x654mbfKcuJUec=; b=tVEdzeK0/AQeSNeg231zxnBc4p36+95IA226Tvtak2LL8aEILEVF4dvTPoBcrgm3oP NRcvt5T1C32E5AVBte7sJDzkbGCAjVhoDuqqIp7Rg4FxcXjcKirdlPytGlyk5W/tsZ/s aknTd40sf/XYS6n3he1yS4ePnNTfBPKOwksi8MKHsr+mt+bjIVPo1K0tCI0ofpn/xEEm HKYReNViFcqfuXRr7Mws8ZKUoVaBLQLp21zvgUNvCVaczME+tMlL3Kmgu9tCHXVfpJG7 KA2XzjzNjLwC8cuoJTSwQVXdb+wH2PKKJ+0Xv07RwGiBcGcfX84oHCMM/9CqLmM7QCsL pHsQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwfjNGHmKLYU4XxsTwqy+1c2G9kRscnAqykx52ZPHENbBDiGIcTs 7s7UFv2ECZE1rq449rBTadCp7aH8+2IjKhzgQ5c= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLuUaIiWkjCqo5UN/SM4ox6eahq3N/bl+jiDtKBAIxHls87w0wzGswNz9nIaehjP3d96EFYsodF/FHjK70YLRY= X-Received: by 2002:a9f:3d6b:: with SMTP id m43-v6mr1080767uai.129.1527246368527; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:06:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a1f:9744:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 25 May 2018 04:06:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72F05085@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B72F05308@ESESSMB109.ericsson.se> From: Andy Hutton Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 12:06:08 +0100 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: "sipbrandy@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Sipbrandy] WGLC: draft-ietf-sipbrandy-osrtp-04 - Christer's review X-BeenThere: sipbrandy@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: SIPBRANDY working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 11:06:11 -0000 On 24 May 2018 at 14:11, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > >>>>>Has there been discussions on whether the subsequent offer really is >>>>>the same? >>>> >>>> Not sure whether this has been discussed explicitly with regard to >>>>this draft. >>> >>> Where has it been discussed? The MMUSIC draft doesn't say anything >>>about subsequent offers either. >>> >>>>> For example, if the initial O/A has resulted in SAVP, would you still >>>>>use AVP in a subsequent offer? >>>> >>>> Yes the recommendation would be to use AVP in a subsequent offer >>>>otherwise things can go wrong when you consider things like 3PCC etc. >>> >>> What if the answerer, who included SAVP in the initial answer, sends a >>>subsequent offer? Will it keep SAVP in that offer, or will it switch to >>>AVP? >>> >> >>This really depends on the preferences of the answerer as to whether >>it requires SRTP or is willing to try OSRTP it is the same >>considerations as made when sending the initial offer. > > > So, that endpoint is allowed to require SRTP, but the endpoint that sent > the initial offer must try OSRTP if it sends a subsequent offer??? > The rules or probably more accurately the recommendations for both endpoints are exactly the same in that when creating an offer the decision on whether to try OSRTP or not depends on their own preferences. This is true for both the initial offer and any subsequent offers. > I think the rules for subsequent offers shall be the same for both > endpoints, i.e., either shall both endpoints be allowed to =C2=B3require= =C2=B2 SRTP > in a subsequent offer, OR both endpoints must try OSRTP in a subsequent > offer. > As above the rules/recommendations for both endpoints are the same and are dependent on their own preferences. If the endpoint is willing to try OSRTP then it should do so in the subsequent offer for maximum chance of interoperability but if its requires SRTP then it would not make an OSRTP offer. > In addition, if security was NOT negotiated in the in the initial o/a > exchange, then I guess each endpoint can choose whether to use OSRTP or > not in subsequent offers? > Absolutely yes. > Regards, > > Christer > > From nobody Fri May 25 06:16:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sipbrandy@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F317128954 for ; Fri, 25 May 2018 06:16:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham 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List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=F1bLDW+wDw8+rRPuL1rJ/x+37z9HExsUXuJ/p5vu7KM=; b=OwDaG22fbd2tjECrYCdXewO+rI17WFaHw9Y1qdjCl3vbkM+4LkEJ9O582Lds5Q1/ UnP/NJ/IE9EevWMqL385VWh6F9Zgfbt9/vHQN2OruVlPofvcMI6/Ys2pSpAb8OOB VxKKO/v6LFiI31XRTveG8upeJKolY7XVRWvi6PNChmw=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-77c239c00000451c-1b-5b080c925cb1 Received: from ESESSHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.39]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 59.C6.17692.29C080B5; Fri, 25 May 2018 15:16:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB109.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.29]) by ESESSHC007.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Fri, 25 May 2018 15:15:45 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Andy Hutton CC: "sipbrandy@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Sipbrandy] WGLC: draft-ietf-sipbrandy-osrtp-04 - Christer's review Thread-Index: AQHT2H1MtettfGxkckGZ8W9pjatITaQ+0HeAgAAnchD//+piAIAAJVKA///h1QCAADjngIABO+gAgABFIAA= Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 13:15:44 +0000 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