From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 1 08:50:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10530 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4gQp-0006Ar-Jk for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:50:16 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h91CoF7r023727 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:50:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4gQp-0006Ac-G2 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:50:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10515 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:50:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4gQn-0006ZE-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:50:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4gQn-0006ZB-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:50:13 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4gQc-00069H-TP; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:50:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4gPy-00068r-RK for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:49:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10508 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4gPx-0006Z7-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:49:21 -0400 Received: from imr2.ericy.com ([198.24.6.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4gPw-0006Z3-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 08:49:20 -0400 Received: from eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se (eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.133.51]) by imr2.ericy.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h91CmbO8022494; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:48:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ericsson.com (EFO9N000L5C7100.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.31.158]) by eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2656.59) id S8VA0YKF; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:48:15 -0500 Message-ID: <3F7ACD24.1010103@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:48:36 +0300 X-Sybari-Trust: 199196fd 406a040f c001c63b 00000138 From: Gonzalo Camarillo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Volker Hilt CC: sipping , Jonathan Rosenberg Subject: Re: [Sipping] draft-hilt-sipping-session-policy-00 References: <3F79865E.1080609@bell-labs.com> In-Reply-To: <3F79865E.1080609@bell-labs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Volker, I had submitted another draft on a related issue. http://standards.ericsson.net/gonzalo/papers/draft-camarillo-sipping-policy-package-00.txt This draft addresses what your draft calls static policies (although they do not need to be static). Some background about this. Some time ago we had a 3GPP-IETF workshop in San Francisco, and I presented some concerns the IETF had related to protocol profiling. We agreed that the IETF was going to provide a means to express the policy of a network regarding the things that user agents attaching to a network were allowed to do. We will need to see how both solutions fit together, since there is some overlap between both drafts. Gonzalo Volker Hilt wrote: > We have submitted the draft-hilt-sipping-session-policy-00. Until it is > available in the I-D archive, you can download it from: > > http://drafts.mhof.com/draft-hilt-sipping-session-policy-00.txt > > Thanks, > > Volker > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 08:14:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15408 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A52LU-0002tO-JD for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:14:13 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92CECLB011114 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:14:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A52LU-0002tB-G0 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:14:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15401 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:14:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A52LT-0007OG-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:14:11 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A52LS-0007O8-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:14:10 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A52LJ-0002s1-Nt; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:14:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A52L9-0002rX-Pa for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:13:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15384 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A52L8-0007Ns-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:13:50 -0400 Received: from smtp.dataconnection.com ([192.91.191.4] helo=coltrane.dataconnection.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A52L8-0007NK-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 08:13:50 -0400 Received: by coltrane.datcon.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:13:04 +0100 Message-ID: <53F74F5A7B94D511841C00B0D0AB16F80261F9E6@baker.datcon.co.uk> From: "Paul D.Smith" To: "'alan.johnston@mci.com'" Cc: "'sipping@ietf.org'" Subject: RE: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-service-examples-05.t xt Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:13:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Alan, At the recent SIPit, we observed an issue with regard to handling a challenge to an _initial_ INVITE. Given that your draft will soon become an RFC, I wanted to draw your attention to this issue. Assuming that the mailing list agrees with my understanding of the issue, and that both of the options that I document below are in fact valid, I would like to ask that you slightly modify either of your "407 challege" examples so that your draft encompasses both behaviours. The problem is the generation of an authorized INVITE after an _initial_ INVITE has been challenged by either a 401 or a 407. There seem to be two options here. _Option 1 - An initial INVITE is treated very similarly to a reINVITE_ The second, authorized, INVITE is sent with the same Call-Id, From (including same tags) as the original INVITE and the CSeq incremented. Both of your examples exhibit this behaviour. _Option 2 - The initial INVITE failed so no dialog or call was created_ The second, authorized, INVITE is sent with a new Call-Id, From with new tag and a new randomly selected CSeq. We have observed both behaviours in different implementations. Implementations that behave in one way, must interoperate with implementations that behave in the other way. Therefore I believe it would be helpful if your draft documented both behaviours, to raise awareness with implementors that they need to take both behaviours into account. Thanks, Paul DS. Paul D.Smith Network Protocols Group Data Connection Ltd (DCL) Tel: +44 20 8366 1177 Email: paul.d.smith@dataconnection.com Fax: +44 20 8363 1039 Web: http://www.dataconnection.com -----Original Message----- From: Alan Johnston [mailto:alan.johnston@mci.com] Sent: 02 September 2003 19:06 To: sipping@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-service-examples-05.txt All, Here are the changes to this draft: - Added Transfer using Instant Messaging call flow. - Added discussion to Single Line Extension to talk about implicit dialog subscriptions. - Added focus behavior to mixing examples. - Added optional 181 Call is Being Forwarded response to call forwarding scenarios. - Fixed branch IDs - Added early-only tag to Replaces in Call Pickup example to avoid race condition. - Added remote-target tag in Call Pickup flow NOTIFY body so that the Contact URI is known. - Added call flow showing user agent using Error-Info header field to retrieve an announcement. I think the draft is essentially complete. I would propose getting volunteers to do a detailed review of sections of the document, perhaps at the same time as WGLC. Thanks, Alan Johnston MCI At 12:59 PM 9/2/2003 -0400, Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. >This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Proposal Investigation >Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Session Initiation Protocol Service Examples > Author(s) : A. Johnston, R. Sparks > Filename : draft-ietf-sipping-service-examples-05.txt > Pages : 166 > Date : 2003-9-2 > >This document gives examples of Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) >services. This covers most features offered in so-called IP Centrex >offerings from local exchange carriers and PBX (Private Branch >Exchange) features. Most of the services shown in this document are >implemented in the SIP User Agents, although some require the >assistance of a SIP Proxy. Some require some extensions to SIP >including the REFER, SUBSCRIBE, and NOTIFY methods and the Replaces >and Join headers. These features are not intended to be an exhaustive >set, but rather show implementations of common features likely to be >implemented on SIP IP telephones in a business environment. > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-service-examples-05. txt > >To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to >ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username >"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, >type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-sipping-service-examples-05.txt". > >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > >Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > >Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. >In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-service-examples-05.txt". > >NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > >Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >Internet-Draft. >Content-Type: text/plain >Content-ID: <2003-9-2100342.I-D@ietf.org> > >ENCODING mime >FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-service-examples-05.txt > > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 11:20:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25935 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A55FZ-0005qI-DM for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:20:18 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92FKGRY022446 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:20:16 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A55FW-0005pt-12 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:20:14 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25844 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:20:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A55EL-0005kI-RJ; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:19:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A55DY-0005fP-7W for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:18:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25587 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:18:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A55DX-00022j-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:18:11 -0400 Received: from mail1.mediatrix.com ([66.129.134.15]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A55DU-00021x-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:18:10 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:15:46 -0400 Message-ID: <2702075D4DE2B043BF5EB82E9CFAD45B09736A@webmail.mediatrix.com> Thread-Topic: Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation Thread-Index: AcOI+A28WtNaVQArTR+q9HIIwvyqDA== From: "Joel Payeur" To: "Sipping (E-mail)" , "Jean-Francois Mule (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, i've been browsing the implementors and sipping lists and can't find any = reference to my actual problems, so here goes. Has anyone had problems with the fact that in both = draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax-01.txt (now expired) and ITU T.38 = 03/2002, there is no strong statement about who should be doing the = reinviting upon fax detection. In realtimefax, Section 4.1 Two possible ways exist for an Internet telephony gateway to detect=20 a facsimile communication:=20 =20 1. On the emitting gateway (the one sending the facsimile document),=20 the T.30 calling tone (CNG) is detected. The CNG tone is however an=20 optional signal [7];=20 2. On the receiving gateway, the V.21 Preamble flag sequence is=20 detected. The Preamble is always present and follows the called=20 station identification tone (CED) when CED is present.=20 Note that even though the CED tone may be detected on the receiving=20 gateway, since the fax CED tone is similar to V.25 ANS modem tones,=20 it SHOULD NOT be used to trigger the fax switchover.=20 =20 In conclusion, several conditions can trigger fax detection.=20 Internet telephony gateways supporting T.38 real-time facsimile MUST=20 support the detection of fax transmission on the V.21 Preamble flag=20 sequence; Internet telephony gateways MAY support the detection of=20 fax on CNG tone. The authors recommend that a facsimile=20 transmission SHOULD be detected on the receiving Internet telephony=20 gateway. Interoperating with your own software is always pretty easy. You decide = on a strategy that best suits your DSP/SIP capabilities, and implement = that. The problem is that each gateway vendor has different hardware = limitations, and uses its own strategy. I've even seen gateways that = actually reInvite for PCM for a second before reInviting for T38. Trial and error have led us to use a "sender INVITEs only", then = "receiver INVITEs only" and finally "anyone that detects the fax = INVITEs" strategies. Each had its problems that we encountered when = doing interop testing with other vendors. We've seen that most vendors use the "anyone INVITEs" strategy. That's = cool, but there is a lingering problem with this strategy. Someties a = certain timing can be achieved in which both endpoints will detect the = fax at about the same time, and both will INVITE the other. The = crossing INVITEs will of course yield back crossing "486 Busy" 's and = the renogotiation fails. I was wondering how T38 implementors have dealt with this particular = issue. I was thinking of either: 1- When getting a 486 response, find a good scheme for retrying, for = example "sender only retries after x seconds". 2- Since the remote's detection of the fax happens because the RTP path = is still open while negotiation takes place, perhaps i should stop = sending RTP while renegotiating. 3- In a next update of the draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax, make it = mandatory for one of the two (sender, receiver) to do the reInviting. = This way we wouldn't need to support every possible combination. Of course, for method 1 there is the drawback that we don't know the = remote's strategy, and it could yield a flurry of crossing reinvites. Method 2 may also break because sometimes a part of the fax noise will = creep in the RTP path before the fax is actually detected by the DSP, = which may be just enough so the remote detects it. Any thoughts? BTW, what's the status on draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax, can we expect = a new revision soon? Jo=EBl _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 17:49:00 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA27043 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:49:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5BJN-0004rf-AS for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:48:40 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92LmbaZ018695 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:48:37 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5BJN-0004rS-72 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:48:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA27025 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5BJK-0007CW-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:48:34 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5BJK-0007CT-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:48:34 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5BIn-0004jq-Lh; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:48:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5BI6-0004do-GP for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:47:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA26996 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5BI3-0007Bn-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:47:15 -0400 Received: from zrc2s0jx.nortelnetworks.com ([47.103.122.112]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5BI3-0007BR-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:47:15 -0400 Received: from zsc3c028.us.nortel.com (zsc3c028.us.nortel.com [47.81.138.28]) by zrc2s0jx.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h92Lkf028724; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:46:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: by zsc3c028.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:46:42 -0700 Message-ID: <2F1FC1DEA077D5119FAD00508BCFD6D20B4E6E68@zsc3c030.us.nortel.com> From: "Francois Audet" To: "'Joel Payeur'" , "'Sipping (E-mail)'" , "'Jean-Francois Mule (E-mail)'" Subject: RE: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:46:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C3892E.A8CB3DFE" Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3892E.A8CB3DFE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by zrc2s0jx.nortelnetworks.com id h92Lkf028724 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My experience is that the fax receiver should be the one doing the re-invite, as the inband IP stream for the tones (especially with non-G.711 codec) is not accurate enough. I would strongly recommend the approach where it is always the receiver o= f the fax that does=20 the re-inviting.=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel Payeur [mailto:jpayeur@mediatrix.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 08:16 > To: Sipping (E-mail); Jean-Francois Mule (E-mail) > Subject: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation >=20 >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > i've been browsing the implementors and sipping lists and=20 > can't find any reference to my actual problems, so here goes. >=20 > Has anyone had problems with the fact that in both=20 > draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax-01.txt (now expired) and ITU=20 > T.38 03/2002, there is no strong statement about who should=20 > be doing the reinviting upon fax detection. >=20 > In realtimefax, Section 4.1 >=20 > Two possible ways exist for an Internet telephony gateway=20 > to detect=20 > a facsimile communication:=20 > =20 > 1. On the emitting gateway (the one sending the facsimile=20 > document),=20 > the T.30 calling tone (CNG) is detected. The CNG tone is=20 > however an=20 > optional signal [7];=20 > 2. On the receiving gateway, the V.21 Preamble flag sequence is=20 > detected. The Preamble is always present and follows the called=20 > station identification tone (CED) when CED is present.=20 > Note that even though the CED tone may be detected on the=20 > receiving=20 > gateway, since the fax CED tone is similar to V.25 ANS=20 > modem tones,=20 > it SHOULD NOT be used to trigger the fax switchover.=20 > =20 > In conclusion, several conditions can trigger fax detection.=20 > Internet telephony gateways supporting T.38 real-time=20 > facsimile MUST=20 > support the detection of fax transmission on the V.21=20 > Preamble flag=20 > sequence; Internet telephony gateways MAY support the detection of=20 > fax on CNG tone. The authors recommend that a facsimile=20 > transmission SHOULD be detected on the receiving Internet=20 > telephony=20 > gateway. >=20 >=20 > Interoperating with your own software is always pretty easy. =20 > You decide on a strategy that best suits your DSP/SIP=20 > capabilities, and implement that. >=20 > The problem is that each gateway vendor has different=20 > hardware limitations, and uses its own strategy. I've even=20 > seen gateways that actually reInvite for PCM for a second=20 > before reInviting for T38. >=20 > Trial and error have led us to use a "sender INVITEs only",=20 > then "receiver INVITEs only" and finally "anyone that detects=20 > the fax INVITEs" strategies. Each had its problems that we=20 > encountered when doing interop testing with other vendors. >=20 > We've seen that most vendors use the "anyone INVITEs"=20 > strategy. That's cool, but there is a lingering problem with=20 > this strategy. Someties a certain timing can be achieved in=20 > which both endpoints will detect the fax at about the same=20 > time, and both will INVITE the other. The crossing INVITEs=20 > will of course yield back crossing "486 Busy" 's and the=20 > renogotiation fails. >=20 > I was wondering how T38 implementors have dealt with this=20 > particular issue. I was thinking of either: >=20 > 1- When getting a 486 response, find a good scheme for=20 > retrying, for example "sender only retries after x seconds". >=20 > 2- Since the remote's detection of the fax happens because=20 > the RTP path is still open while negotiation takes place,=20 > perhaps i should stop sending RTP while renegotiating. >=20 > 3- In a next update of the draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax,=20 > make it mandatory for one of the two (sender, receiver) to do=20 > the reInviting. This way we wouldn't need to support every=20 > possible combination. >=20 > Of course, for method 1 there is the drawback that we don't=20 > know the remote's strategy, and it could yield a flurry of=20 > crossing reinvites. Method 2 may also break because sometimes=20 > a part of the fax noise will creep in the RTP path before the=20 > fax is actually detected by the DSP, which may be just enough=20 > so the remote detects it. >=20 > Any thoughts? >=20 >=20 > BTW, what's the status on draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax, can=20 > we expect a new revision soon? >=20 > Jo=EBl >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current=20 > sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP >=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3892E.A8CB3DFE Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by zrc2s0jx.nortelnetworks.com id h92Lkf028724 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation

My experience is that the fax receiver should be the on= e doing the re-invite, as the inband IP
stream for the tones (especially with non-G.711 codec)= is not accurate enough.

I would strongly recommend the approach where it is alw= ays the receiver of the fax that does
the re-inviting.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel Payeur [mailto:jpayeur@mediatrix.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 08:16
> To: Sipping (E-mail); Jean-Francois Mule (E-mail)=
> Subject: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegot= iation
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> i've been browsing the implementors and sipping l= ists and
> can't find any reference to my actual problems, s= o here goes.
>
> Has anyone had problems with the fact that in bot= h
> draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax-01.txt (now expire= d) and ITU
> T.38 03/2002, there is no strong statement about = who should
> be doing the reinviting upon fax detection.
>
> In realtimefax, Section 4.1
>
>    Two possible ways exist for an = Internet telephony gateway
> to detect
>    a facsimile communication:
>    
>    1. On the emitting gateway (the= one sending the facsimile
> document),
>    the T.30 calling tone (CNG) is = detected.  The CNG tone is
> however an
>    optional signal [7];
>    2. On the receiving gateway, th= e V.21 Preamble flag sequence is
>    detected.  The Preamble is= always present and follows the called
>    station identification tone (CE= D) when CED is present.
>    Note that even though the CED t= one may be detected on the
> receiving
>    gateway, since the fax CED tone= is similar to V.25 ANS
> modem tones,
>    it SHOULD NOT be used to trigge= r the fax switchover.
>    
>    In conclusion, several conditio= ns can trigger fax detection.
>    Internet telephony gateways sup= porting T.38 real-time
> facsimile MUST
>    support the detection of fax tr= ansmission on the V.21
> Preamble flag
>    sequence; Internet telephony ga= teways MAY support the detection of
>    fax on CNG tone.  The auth= ors recommend that a facsimile
>    transmission SHOULD be detected= on the receiving Internet
> telephony
>    gateway.
>
>
> Interoperating with your own software is always p= retty easy. 
> You decide on a strategy that best suits your DSP= /SIP
> capabilities, and implement that.
>
> The problem is that each gateway vendor has diffe= rent
> hardware limitations, and uses its own strategy. = I've even
> seen gateways that actually reInvite for PCM for = a second
> before reInviting for T38.
>
> Trial and error have led us to use a "sender= INVITEs only",
> then "receiver INVITEs only" and finall= y "anyone that detects
> the fax INVITEs" strategies.  Each had = its problems that we
> encountered when doing interop testing with other= vendors.
>
> We've seen that most vendors use the "anyone= INVITEs"
> strategy.  That's cool, but there is a linge= ring problem with
> this strategy.  Someties a certain timing ca= n be achieved in
> which both endpoints will detect the fax at about= the same
> time, and both will INVITE the other.  The c= rossing INVITEs
> will of course yield back crossing "486 Busy= " 's and the
> renogotiation fails.
>
> I was wondering how T38 implementors have dealt w= ith this
> particular issue.  I was thinking of either:=
>
> 1- When getting a 486 response, find a good schem= e for
> retrying, for example "sender only retries a= fter x seconds".
>
> 2- Since the remote's detection of the fax happen= s because
> the RTP path is still open while negotiation take= s place,
> perhaps i should stop sending RTP while renegotia= ting.
>
> 3- In a next update of the draft-ietf-sipping-rea= ltimefax,
> make it mandatory for one of the two (sender, rec= eiver) to do
> the reInviting.  This way we wouldn't need t= o support every
> possible combination.
>
> Of course, for method 1 there is the drawback tha= t we don't
> know the remote's strategy, and it could yield a = flurry of
> crossing reinvites. Method 2 may also break becau= se sometimes
> a part of the fax noise will creep in the RTP pat= h before the
> fax is actually detected by the DSP, which may be= just enough
> so the remote detects it.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
> BTW, what's the status on draft-ietf-sipping-real= timefax, can
> we expect a new revision soon?
>
> Jo=EBl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/sipping
> This list is for NEW development of the applicati= on of SIP
> Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for question= s on current
> sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core= SIP
>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3892E.A8CB3DFE-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 11:05:53 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05716 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tP2-0005kn-3Y for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:33 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97F5Wrp022113 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:05:32 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tP0-0005kU-5t for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05635 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:05:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tOx-0006eY-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:27 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tOw-0006eT-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:26 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tOa-0005aN-2h; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tOP-0005YV-ML for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:04:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05568 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tOL-0006dP-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:04:49 -0400 Received: from zcars04f.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.57]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tOK-0006cg-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:04:48 -0400 Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69]) by zcars04f.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h97F41B29441 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:04:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zcard0kc.ca.nortel.com ([47.129.242.164]) by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id T9H23KMY; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:04:02 -0400 Received: from nortelnetworks.com (acart1bq.ca.nortel.com [47.129.129.33]) by zcard0kc.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id SZW5NBTG; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:04:01 -0400 Message-ID: <3F82D5E0.7050105@nortelnetworks.com> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:04:00 -0400 X-Sybari-Space: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-ca, en-us, en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sipping@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt] Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a long-overdue action, interrupted in the preparation by vacation and other urgent matters. You might want to look it over to see if there are actions for SIPPING other than my suggested location header field (which I believe Jon Peterson has already started to define). I missed Dick Knight in my acknowledgements. My apologies to him: he helped to obtain information on the provision of emergency services in the UK. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 07:35:46 -0400 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: IETF-Announce: ; A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : SIP Emergency Assistance Scenarios Author(s) : T. Taylor Filename : draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2003-10-1 This document examines the scenarios within which SIP phones may be used to contact emergency call centres. Beginning with an overview of the high level system requirements for contacting emergency call centres in the PSTN, the scenarios involving stationary or nomadic SIP phones are described and then alternative strategies for supporting the information flows for the scenarios needed to meet these requirements are examined. The major finding from the point of view of SIP standardization is it would be helpful in a number of scenarios if a location header field could be added either by the SIP phone or by a proxy to indicate the location of the phone in a machine-readable way. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt ... _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 11:43:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08821 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tzU-00082v-W8 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:43:13 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97FhCjd030926 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:43:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tzU-00082j-MM for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:43:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08810 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tzT-0007cq-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:43:11 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tzT-0007cn-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:43:11 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tzJ-00081c-PP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:43:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tyO-0007y7-Uz for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:42:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08723 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:41:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tyN-0007aK-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:42:03 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tyN-0007ZW-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:42:03 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Oct 2003 08:42:17 -0700 Received: from wells.cisco.com (wells.cisco.com [171.71.177.223]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h97FfQcZ023994; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jmpolk-w2k01.diablo.cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by wells.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id IAA01691; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20031007104003.025eb4f8@localhost> X-Sender: jmpolk@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:41:23 -0500 To: Tom Taylor , sipping@ietf.org From: "James M. Polk" Subject: Re: [Sipping] [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt] In-Reply-To: <3F82D5E0.7050105@nortelnetworks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 11:04 AM 10/7/2003 -0400, Tom Taylor wrote: >This is a long-overdue action, interrupted in the preparation by vacation >and other urgent matters. You might want to look it over to see if there >are actions for SIPPING other than my suggested location header field >(which I believe Jon Peterson has already started to define). Tom Have you seen: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-location-requirements-00.txt which defines a location header already? >I missed Dick Knight in my acknowledgements. My >apologies to him: he helped to obtain information on the provision of >emergency services in the UK. > >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt >Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 07:35:46 -0400 >From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >Reply-To: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >To: IETF-Announce: ; > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. > > > Title : SIP Emergency Assistance Scenarios > Author(s) : T. Taylor > Filename : draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt > Pages : 22 > Date : 2003-10-1 > >This document examines the scenarios within which SIP phones may be >used to contact emergency call centres. Beginning with an overview >of the high level system requirements for contacting emergency call >centres in the PSTN, the scenarios involving stationary or nomadic >SIP phones are described and then alternative strategies for >supporting the information flows for the scenarios needed to meet >these requirements are examined. The major finding from the point >of view of SIP standardization is it would be helpful in a number of >scenarios if a location header field could be added either by the >SIP phone or by a proxy to indicate the location of the phone in a >machine-readable way. > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt > >To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to >ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username >"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, >type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt". > >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > >... > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping >This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP >Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip >Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP cheers, James ******************* Truth is not to be argued... it is to be presented _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 8 08:45:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12080 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7Dgl-00039z-N0 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:45:13 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h98CjBJs012143 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:45:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7Dgl-00039m-JU for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:45:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12071 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7Dgk-0004MB-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:45:10 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7Dgj-0004M8-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:45:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7Dgb-00038f-Pw; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:45:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DgK-00037S-2W for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:44:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12064 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DgI-0004Lr-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:44:42 -0400 Received: from mail1.mediatrix.com ([66.129.134.15]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DgH-0004La-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:44:42 -0400 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:42:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C38D99.9CAD1CDF" Message-ID: <2702075D4DE2B043BF5EB82E9CFAD45B09736C@webmail.mediatrix.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Thread-Topic: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation Thread-Index: AcOJLnKrENrs2D0NS42K3GIt0++wjQEaijoA From: "Joel Payeur" To: "Francois Audet" , "Sipping (E-mail)" , "Jean-Francois Mule (E-mail)" Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C38D99.9CAD1CDF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Francois, =20 The reason why we stopped using the receiver approach is that in = some scenarios where we were the fax sender, the third party remote = reInvited us twice in about 1 second, once in PCM, then in T38. =20 This behavior was strange, and it did not fit well with our DSP code. = We were not in a position to argue with the other vendor, so we changed = our code so that the sender reInvites before the receiver has time to = confuse our DSP code. This was ugly, but it got the work done. =20 Thanks for your reply! =20 Joel =20 -----Original Message----- From: Francois Audet [mailto:audet@nortelnetworks.com] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 17:47 To: Joel Payeur; 'Sipping (E-mail)'; 'Jean-Francois Mule (E-mail)' Subject: RE: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation My experience is that the fax receiver should be the one doing the = re-invite, as the inband IP=20 stream for the tones (especially with non-G.711 codec) is not accurate = enough.=20 I would strongly recommend the approach where it is always the receiver = of the fax that does=20 the re-inviting.=20 > -----Original Message-----=20 > From: Joel Payeur [ mailto:jpayeur@mediatrix.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 08:16=20 > To: Sipping (E-mail); Jean-Francois Mule (E-mail)=20 > Subject: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi all,=20 >=20 > i've been browsing the implementors and sipping lists and=20 > can't find any reference to my actual problems, so here goes.=20 >=20 > Has anyone had problems with the fact that in both=20 > draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax-01.txt (now expired) and ITU=20 > T.38 03/2002, there is no strong statement about who should=20 > be doing the reinviting upon fax detection.=20 >=20 > In realtimefax, Section 4.1=20 >=20 > Two possible ways exist for an Internet telephony gateway=20 > to detect=20 > a facsimile communication:=20 > =20 > 1. On the emitting gateway (the one sending the facsimile=20 > document),=20 > the T.30 calling tone (CNG) is detected. The CNG tone is=20 > however an=20 > optional signal [7];=20 > 2. On the receiving gateway, the V.21 Preamble flag sequence is=20 > detected. The Preamble is always present and follows the called=20 > station identification tone (CED) when CED is present.=20 > Note that even though the CED tone may be detected on the=20 > receiving=20 > gateway, since the fax CED tone is similar to V.25 ANS=20 > modem tones,=20 > it SHOULD NOT be used to trigger the fax switchover.=20 > =20 > In conclusion, several conditions can trigger fax detection.=20 > Internet telephony gateways supporting T.38 real-time=20 > facsimile MUST=20 > support the detection of fax transmission on the V.21=20 > Preamble flag=20 > sequence; Internet telephony gateways MAY support the detection of=20 > fax on CNG tone. The authors recommend that a facsimile=20 > transmission SHOULD be detected on the receiving Internet=20 > telephony=20 > gateway.=20 >=20 >=20 > Interoperating with your own software is always pretty easy. =20 > You decide on a strategy that best suits your DSP/SIP=20 > capabilities, and implement that.=20 >=20 > The problem is that each gateway vendor has different=20 > hardware limitations, and uses its own strategy. I've even=20 > seen gateways that actually reInvite for PCM for a second=20 > before reInviting for T38.=20 >=20 > Trial and error have led us to use a "sender INVITEs only",=20 > then "receiver INVITEs only" and finally "anyone that detects=20 > the fax INVITEs" strategies. Each had its problems that we=20 > encountered when doing interop testing with other vendors.=20 >=20 > We've seen that most vendors use the "anyone INVITEs"=20 > strategy. That's cool, but there is a lingering problem with=20 > this strategy. Someties a certain timing can be achieved in=20 > which both endpoints will detect the fax at about the same=20 > time, and both will INVITE the other. The crossing INVITEs=20 > will of course yield back crossing "486 Busy" 's and the=20 > renogotiation fails.=20 >=20 > I was wondering how T38 implementors have dealt with this=20 > particular issue. I was thinking of either:=20 >=20 > 1- When getting a 486 response, find a good scheme for=20 > retrying, for example "sender only retries after x seconds".=20 >=20 > 2- Since the remote's detection of the fax happens because=20 > the RTP path is still open while negotiation takes place,=20 > perhaps i should stop sending RTP while renegotiating.=20 >=20 > 3- In a next update of the draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax,=20 > make it mandatory for one of the two (sender, receiver) to do=20 > the reInviting. This way we wouldn't need to support every=20 > possible combination.=20 >=20 > Of course, for method 1 there is the drawback that we don't=20 > know the remote's strategy, and it could yield a flurry of=20 > crossing reinvites. Method 2 may also break because sometimes=20 > a part of the fax noise will creep in the RTP path before the=20 > fax is actually detected by the DSP, which may be just enough=20 > so the remote detects it.=20 >=20 > Any thoughts?=20 >=20 >=20 > BTW, what's the status on draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax, can=20 > we expect a new revision soon?=20 >=20 > Jo=EBl=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________=20 > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping=20 > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP=20 > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current=20 > sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP=20 >=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C38D99.9CAD1CDF Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation
Francois,
 
    The reason why we stopped using the receiver = approach is=20 that in some scenarios where we were the fax sender, the third party = remote=20 reInvited us twice in about 1 second, once in PCM, then in=20 T38.
 
This=20 behavior was strange,  and it did not fit well with our DSP = code.  We=20 were not in a position to argue with the other vendor, so we changed our = code so=20 that the sender reInvites before the receiver has time to confuse our = DSP=20 code.  This was ugly, but it got the work done.
 
Thanks for your = reply!
 
Joel
 

 -----Original=20 Message-----
From: Francois Audet=20 [mailto:audet@nortelnetworks.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 02, = 2003=20 17:47
To: Joel Payeur; 'Sipping (E-mail)'; 'Jean-Francois Mule = (E-mail)'
Subject: RE: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38)=20 renegotiation

My experience is that the fax receiver should be the = one doing=20 the re-invite, as the inband IP
stream for = the tones=20 (especially with non-G.711 codec) is not accurate enough.

I would strongly recommend the approach where it is = always the=20 receiver of the fax that does
the = re-inviting.=20

> -----Original Message-----
>=20 From: Joel Payeur [mailto:jpayeur@mediatrix.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 = 08:16=20
> To: Sipping (E-mail); Jean-Francois Mule = (E-mail)=20
> Subject: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38)=20 renegotiation
>
>=20
> Hi all,
>=20
> i've been browsing the implementors and = sipping=20 lists and
> can't find any reference to = my actual=20 problems, so here goes.
> =
> Has anyone had problems with the fact that in both=20
> draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax-01.txt = (now=20 expired) and ITU
> T.38 03/2002, there is = no strong=20 statement about who should
> be doing the = reinviting upon fax detection.
> =
> In realtimefax, Section 4.1
>=20
>    Two possible ways = exist for an=20 Internet telephony gateway
> to detect=20
>    a facsimile = communication:=20
>     =
>    1. On the emitting gateway (the one = sending the=20 facsimile
> document),
>    the T.30 calling tone (CNG) is = detected. =20 The CNG tone is
> however an =
>    optional signal [7];
>    2. On the receiving gateway, the V.21 = Preamble=20 flag sequence is
>   =20 detected.  The Preamble is always present and follows the called=20
>    station = identification tone=20 (CED) when CED is present.
>    Note=20 that even though the CED tone may be detected on the
> receiving
>    gateway,=20 since the fax CED tone is similar to V.25 ANS
>=20 modem tones,
>    it = SHOULD NOT be=20 used to trigger the fax switchover.
>    
>    In conclusion, several conditions can = trigger=20 fax detection.
>    = Internet=20 telephony gateways supporting T.38 real-time
>=20 facsimile MUST
>    = support the=20 detection of fax transmission on the V.21
>=20 Preamble flag
>    = sequence;=20 Internet telephony gateways MAY support the detection of =
>    fax on CNG tone.  The authors = recommend=20 that a facsimile
>    = transmission=20 SHOULD be detected on the receiving Internet
>=20 telephony
>    = gateway.=20
>
> =
> Interoperating with your own software is always pretty = easy. =20
> You decide on a strategy that best = suits your=20 DSP/SIP
> capabilities, and implement = that.=20
>
> The problem is = that each=20 gateway vendor has different
> hardware=20 limitations, and uses its own strategy. I've even
>=20 seen gateways that actually reInvite for PCM for a second =
> before reInviting for T38.
>=20
> Trial and error have led us to use a = "sender=20 INVITEs only",
> then "receiver INVITEs = only" and=20 finally "anyone that detects
> the fax = INVITEs"=20 strategies.  Each had its problems that we
>=20 encountered when doing interop testing with other vendors. =
>
> We've seen that most = vendors use the=20 "anyone INVITEs"
> strategy.  That's = cool, but=20 there is a lingering problem with
> this=20 strategy.  Someties a certain timing can be achieved in =
> which both endpoints will detect the fax at about the = same=20
> time, and both will INVITE the = other.  The=20 crossing INVITEs
> will of course yield = back=20 crossing "486 Busy" 's and the
> = renogotiation=20 fails.
>
> I = was=20 wondering how T38 implementors have dealt with this
> particular issue.  I was thinking of either: =
>
> 1- When getting a 486 = response, find=20 a good scheme for
> retrying, for example = "sender=20 only retries after x seconds".
> =
> 2- Since the remote's detection of the fax happens = because=20
> the RTP path is still open while = negotiation=20 takes place,
> perhaps i should stop = sending RTP=20 while renegotiating.
>
>=20 3- In a next update of the draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax, =
> make it mandatory for one of the two (sender, receiver) = to do=20
> the reInviting.  This way we = wouldn't need=20 to support every
> possible = combination.=20
>
> Of course, for = method 1=20 there is the drawback that we don't
> = know the=20 remote's strategy, and it could yield a flurry of
>=20 crossing reinvites. Method 2 may also break because sometimes =
> a part of the fax noise will creep in the RTP path = before the=20
> fax is actually detected by the DSP, = which may be=20 just enough
> so the remote detects = it.=20
>
> Any = thoughts?=20
>
> =
> BTW, what's the status on = draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax, can=20
> we expect a new revision soon? =
>
> Jo=EBl
>=20
>=20 _______________________________________________
>=20 Sipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping= =20
> This list is for NEW development of the = application of=20 SIP
> Use = sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for=20 questions on current
> sip Use = sip@ietf.org for new=20 developments of core SIP
>=20

------_=_NextPart_001_01C38D99.9CAD1CDF-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 8 08:49:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12222 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DkV-0003U2-Gc for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:49:03 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h98Cn3mr013384 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:49:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DkV-0003Tn-DI for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:49:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12208 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:48:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DkT-0004Os-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:49:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DkT-0004Op-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:49:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DkT-0003Sm-N7; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:49:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DjX-0003RY-DI for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:48:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12196 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:47:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DjW-0004OY-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:48:02 -0400 Received: from mail1.mediatrix.com ([66.129.134.15]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DjV-0004OP-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:48:01 -0400 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:45:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <2702075D4DE2B043BF5EB82E9CFAD45BA49A45@webmail.mediatrix.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Thread-Topic: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation Thread-Index: AcOL5JMFClBOP04gT2S6rUycNjdJFgBtQtow From: "Joel Payeur" To: Cc: "Sipping (E-mail)" , "Jean-Francois Mule (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sharath, Thanks for the tip, but sadly, since my goal is interop, and i really = can't know what each vendor will do in any given situation, i don't = think any of us can come up with a solution in the current state of the = fax renegotiation practice. I believe that the answer may lie in = standardizing this. I'll start another thread, maybe shorten my question, i was hoping for = the authors to answer. Thanks! Joel > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharath.Kumar@utstar.com [mailto:Sharath.Kumar@utstar.com] > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 4:35 > To: Joel Payeur > Cc: Sipping (E-mail); Jean-Francois Mule (E-mail) > Subject: Re: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hi Joel, > Like you said most implementations use the "anyone=20 > INVITEs" strategy, > and because of timing issues you might end up with a=20 > glare case. > Take a look at sections 14.1/14.2 of Rfc 3261, It talks=20 > about using > the > "491 request pending" or a "500 Internal server error"=20 > to handle such > cases, > In case of 491 it makes use of a retrying scheme,something > similar to what you proposed. >=20 > thanks > -Sharath >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > "Joel Payeur" @ietf.org on 10/02/2003=20 > 09:45:46 PM >=20 > Sent by: sipping-admin@ietf.org >=20 >=20 > To: "Sipping (E-mail)" , "Jean-Francois=20 > Mule (E-mail)" > > cc: > Subject: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation >=20 >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > i've been browsing the implementors and sipping lists and=20 > can't find any > reference to my actual problems, so here goes. >=20 > Has anyone had problems with the fact that in both > draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax-01.txt (now expired) and ITU=20 > T.38 03/2002, > there is no strong statement about who should be doing the=20 > reinviting upon > fax detection. >=20 > In realtimefax, Section 4.1 >=20 > Two possible ways exist for an Internet telephony gateway to detect > a facsimile communication: >=20 > 1. On the emitting gateway (the one sending the facsimile=20 > document), > the T.30 calling tone (CNG) is detected. The CNG tone is=20 > however an > optional signal [7]; > 2. On the receiving gateway, the V.21 Preamble flag sequence is > detected. The Preamble is always present and follows the called > station identification tone (CED) when CED is present. > Note that even though the CED tone may be detected on the receiving > gateway, since the fax CED tone is similar to V.25 ANS modem tones, > it SHOULD NOT be used to trigger the fax switchover. >=20 > In conclusion, several conditions can trigger fax detection. > Internet telephony gateways supporting T.38 real-time=20 > facsimile MUST > support the detection of fax transmission on the V.21 Preamble flag > sequence; Internet telephony gateways MAY support the detection of > fax on CNG tone. The authors recommend that a facsimile > transmission SHOULD be detected on the receiving Internet telephony > gateway. >=20 >=20 > Interoperating with your own software is always pretty easy. =20 > You decide on > a strategy that best suits your DSP/SIP capabilities, and=20 > implement that. >=20 > The problem is that each gateway vendor has different=20 > hardware limitations, > and uses its own strategy. I've even seen gateways that=20 > actually reInvite > for PCM for a second before reInviting for T38. >=20 > Trial and error have led us to use a "sender INVITEs only",=20 > then "receiver > INVITEs only" and finally "anyone that detects the fax=20 > INVITEs" strategies. > Each had its problems that we encountered when doing interop=20 > testing with > other vendors. >=20 > We've seen that most vendors use the "anyone INVITEs"=20 > strategy. That's > cool, but there is a lingering problem with this strategy. Someties a > certain timing can be achieved in which both endpoints will=20 > detect the fax > at about the same time, and both will INVITE the other. The crossing > INVITEs will of course yield back crossing "486 Busy" 's and the > renogotiation fails. >=20 > I was wondering how T38 implementors have dealt with this=20 > particular issue. > I was thinking of either: >=20 > 1- When getting a 486 response, find a good scheme for retrying, for > example "sender only retries after x seconds". >=20 > 2- Since the remote's detection of the fax happens because=20 > the RTP path is > still open while negotiation takes place, perhaps i should=20 > stop sending RTP > while renegotiating. >=20 > 3- In a next update of the draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax, make it > mandatory for one of the two (sender, receiver) to do the=20 > reInviting. This > way we wouldn't need to support every possible combination. >=20 > Of course, for method 1 there is the drawback that we don't know the > remote's strategy, and it could yield a flurry of crossing reinvites. > Method 2 may also break because sometimes a part of the fax noise will > creep in the RTP path before the fax is actually detected by=20 > the DSP, which > may be just enough so the remote detects it. >=20 > Any thoughts? >=20 >=20 > BTW, what's the status on draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax, can=20 > we expect a > new revision soon? >=20 > Jo=EBl >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 8 09:00:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA12783 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:00:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DvH-00046U-JA for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:00:12 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h98D0Bdv015766 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:00:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DvG-000469-Vb for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:00:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA12759 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:00:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DvF-0004YY-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:00:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DvE-0004YV-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:00:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DvA-00040v-2x; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 09:00:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7DuX-0003zW-8l for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:59:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12694 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:59:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DuV-0004Xk-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:59:23 -0400 Received: from mail1.mediatrix.com ([66.129.134.15]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7DuV-0004XT-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:59:23 -0400 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:57:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <2702075D4DE2B043BF5EB82E9CFAD45B09736D@webmail.mediatrix.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Thread-Topic: Where's our standard for fax negotiation? Thread-Index: AcONm61zGhDgMfmsRmmWTNhbi/myMQ== From: "Joel Payeur" To: "Sipping (E-mail)" , "Jean-Francois Mule (E-mail)" , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Sipping] Where's our standard for fax negotiation? Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, In the last few years we have been playing around with SIP fax = implementations of all kinds. Everyone has different DSP limitations, = and I believe that current fax BCP draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax-01.txt = has issued from some limitations (for example DSPs that can't switch = dynamically). I was wondering: 1- Why is this draft a best current practice. Can't we process it as a = RFC like all the rest? It's kinda hard to press people to change their = code when you rely on best current practices. 2- Is there still work being done on the subject? If so, where can i see = what's going on, how can I help? 3- For clear channel fax, not knowing whether the reinvite is clear = channel or normal PCM causes us problems, can we do something about = that, a new attribute a=3Dfax perhaps? As more and more customer sites are installed, the need to have a = standard way of doing SIP fax renegotiation will become a must. Since = interoperability is often required, we must rely on a strong RFC to = which we can refer. I thank the authors for the efforts that have been = made up to now, which have been of great help. Joel _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 8 13:56:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29685 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:56:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7IXn-0006eF-PO for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:56:16 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h98HuFUY025551 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:56:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7IXn-0006e2-MJ for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:56:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29652 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7IXk-0001rm-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:56:12 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7IXk-0001rd-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:56:12 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7IXZ-0006c1-Dk; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:56:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7IXL-0006bP-GZ for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:55:47 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29633 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:55:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7IXJ-0001r6-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:55:45 -0400 Received: from mail1.mediatrix.com ([66.129.134.15]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7IXI-0001qp-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:55:44 -0400 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:53:28 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Message-ID: <2702075D4DE2B043BF5EB82E9CFAD45B09736E@webmail.mediatrix.com> Thread-Topic: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation Thread-Index: AcONuk4cFAiOidb8Q9GKfIE4JDPl3AABa5Tg From: "Joel Payeur" To: "Lyons, Terry" Cc: "Sipping (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks. 491 does seem to be the answer to my current problem. However i = still feel that the BCP does not guide implementors well enough. Funny that you should say that you prefer anyone INVITEs. In an earlier mail Francois Audet said that=20 "I would strongly recommend the approach where it is always the receiver = of the fax that does=20 the re-inviting." Maybe we should take the time to improve the BCP, (in fact maybe stop = calling it BCP), and give a clear indication on which strategy MUST be = used, complete with WHY. I've also noticed that there is no T38 design team on the sipping web = page http://www.softarmor.com/sipping/teams/index.html Anybody know why? Joel > -----Original Message----- > From: Lyons, Terry [mailto:TLyons@sonusnet.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:38 > To: Joel Payeur > Subject: RE: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation >=20 >=20 > Seem to me this is a misreading of RFC 3261: >=20 > The crossing INVITEs will of course yield back > crossing "486 Busy" 's and the renogotiation fails. >=20 > You should respond 491 instead. > Then there's a procedure to resolve the glare. >=20 > Anyone INVITEs is the preferred solution. >=20 > - tlyons@sonusnet.com +1 732 625-3003 x212 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel Payeur [mailto:jpayeur@mediatrix.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:16 AM > To: Sipping (E-mail); Jean-Francois Mule (E-mail) > Subject: [Sipping] Questions on fax (T38) renegotiation >=20 >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > i've been browsing the implementors and sipping lists and=20 > can't find any > reference to my actual problems, so here goes. >=20 > Has anyone had problems with the fact that in both > draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax-01.txt (now expired) and ITU=20 > T.38 03/2002, > there is no strong statement about who should be doing the=20 > reinviting upon > fax detection. >=20 > In realtimefax, Section 4.1 >=20 > Two possible ways exist for an Internet telephony gateway=20 > to detect=20 > a facsimile communication:=20 > =20 > 1. On the emitting gateway (the one sending the facsimile=20 > document),=20 > the T.30 calling tone (CNG) is detected. The CNG tone is=20 > however an=20 > optional signal [7];=20 > 2. On the receiving gateway, the V.21 Preamble flag sequence is=20 > detected. The Preamble is always present and follows the called=20 > station identification tone (CED) when CED is present.=20 > Note that even though the CED tone may be detected on the=20 > receiving=20 > gateway, since the fax CED tone is similar to V.25 ANS=20 > modem tones,=20 > it SHOULD NOT be used to trigger the fax switchover.=20 > =20 > In conclusion, several conditions can trigger fax detection.=20 > Internet telephony gateways supporting T.38 real-time=20 > facsimile MUST=20 > support the detection of fax transmission on the V.21=20 > Preamble flag=20 > sequence; Internet telephony gateways MAY support the detection of=20 > fax on CNG tone. The authors recommend that a facsimile=20 > transmission SHOULD be detected on the receiving Internet=20 > telephony=20 > gateway. >=20 >=20 > Interoperating with your own software is always pretty easy. =20 > You decide on > a strategy that best suits your DSP/SIP capabilities, and=20 > implement that. >=20 > The problem is that each gateway vendor has different=20 > hardware limitations, > and uses its own strategy. I've even seen gateways that=20 > actually reInvite > for PCM for a second before reInviting for T38. >=20 > Trial and error have led us to use a "sender INVITEs only",=20 > then "receiver > INVITEs only" and finally "anyone that detects the fax=20 > INVITEs" strategies. > Each had its problems that we encountered when doing interop=20 > testing with > other vendors. >=20 > We've seen that most vendors use the "anyone INVITEs"=20 > strategy. That's > cool, but there is a lingering problem with this strategy. Someties a > certain timing can be achieved in which both endpoints will=20 > detect the fax > at about the same time, and both will INVITE the other. The crossing > INVITEs will of course yield back crossing "486 Busy" 's and the > renogotiation fails. >=20 > I was wondering how T38 implementors have dealt with this=20 > particular issue. > I was thinking of either: >=20 > 1- When getting a 486 response, find a good scheme for=20 > retrying, for example > "sender only retries after x seconds". >=20 > 2- Since the remote's detection of the fax happens because=20 > the RTP path is > still open while negotiation takes place, perhaps i should=20 > stop sending RTP > while renegotiating. >=20 > 3- In a next update of the draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax,=20 > make it mandatory > for one of the two (sender, receiver) to do the reInviting. =20 > This way we > wouldn't need to support every possible combination. >=20 > Of course, for method 1 there is the drawback that we don't know the > remote's strategy, and it could yield a flurry of crossing reinvites. > Method 2 may also break because sometimes a part of the fax=20 > noise will creep > in the RTP path before the fax is actually detected by the=20 > DSP, which may be > just enough so the remote detects it. >=20 > Any thoughts? >=20 >=20 > BTW, what's the status on draft-ietf-sipping-realtimefax, can=20 > we expect a > new revision soon? >=20 > Jo=EBl >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 9 12:52:58 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28863 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7e1k-000879-W8 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:52:37 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h99Gqao6031187 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:52:36 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7e1k-00086w-OM for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:52:36 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28851 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7e1B-0007xY-6I; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:52:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7e16-0007xL-BC for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:51:56 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28801 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7e14-0001Cy-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:51:54 -0400 Received: from machine77.level3.com ([209.244.4.106] helo=cc26-01.idc1.level3.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7e14-0001CV-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 12:51:54 -0400 Received: from cc26-01.idc1.level3.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.level3.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D24E1A1851; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:45:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from idc1exc0001.corp.global.level3.com (idc1exc0001.corp.global.level3.com [10.1.7.194]) by cc26-01.idc1.level3.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F3DDA184E; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 16:45:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from idc1exc0004.corp.global.level3.com ([10.1.8.20]) by idc1exc0001.corp.global.level3.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:45:55 -0600 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6470.0 Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:45:55 -0600 Message-ID: <3F75233A2E57CC468B35F3B1FAF71EC013AA34@idc1exc0004.corp.global.level3.com> Thread-Topic: Is realtimefax draft dead? Thread-Index: AcOC7FiDwIFNn8gDSgyIwiOkuUBW4gLl0nXQ From: "Hearty, John" To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Oct 2003 16:45:55.0444 (UTC) FILETIME=[CEE4E340:01C38E84] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I posted this message a couple of weeks ago with no reply. Since then there have been other messages related to this draft, but no answers regarding getting updates to the draft. I have seen no response from the authors, and Jieying Li's email address bounced. I feel this is an important document to get updated, as there is very little else available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something more and more customers are asking for. John Hearty Level3 > -----Original Message----- > From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Hearty, John > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 4:37 PM > To: sipping@ietf.org; jieying@voxnetworks.com; jfm@cablelabs.com > Subject: [Sipping] realtimefax draft >=20 > I see that this draft is expired. Is a new one due out? Also, I see > that it implies how the negotiation of t38 attributes is done, but there > is nowhere in this or any other document I am aware of that clearly > describes the offer/answer model for t38 attribute negotiation. Can > this be added to this draft? >=20 > John Hearty > Level3 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 9 14:48:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA03359 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:48:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7fpX-0007b1-KE for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:48:08 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h99Im7ef029193 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:48:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7fpX-0007am-GM for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:48:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA03343 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:47:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7fpU-0002dd-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:48:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7fpU-0002dZ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:48:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7fpS-0007Zh-56; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:48:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7fol-0007XX-GX for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:47:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA03331 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:47:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7foi-0002dN-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:47:16 -0400 Received: from pmesmtp02.wcom.com ([199.249.20.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7foi-0002cw-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:47:16 -0400 Received: from dgismtp06.wcomnet.com ([166.38.58.89]) by firewall.wcom.com (Iplanet MTA 5.2) with ESMTP id <0HMI008D76TU7Y@firewall.wcom.com> for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 18:46:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dgismtp06.wcomnet.com by dgismtp06.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with SMTP id <0HMI00D016TOV0@dgismtp06.wcomnet.com>; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 18:46:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from hsinnreich2 ([166.35.136.79]) by dgismtp06.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HMI007H26TI8R@dgismtp06.wcomnet.com>; Thu, 09 Oct 2003 18:46:40 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 13:46:30 -0500 From: Henry Sinnreich Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? In-reply-to: <3F75233A2E57CC468B35F3B1FAF71EC013AA34@idc1exc0004.corp.global.level3.com> To: "'Hearty, John'" , sipping@ietf.org, jfm@cablelabs.com Message-id: <0HMI007HD6TQ8R@dgismtp06.wcomnet.com> Organization: WorldCom, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5329 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thread-index: AcOC7FiDwIFNn8gDSgyIwiOkuUBW4gLl0nXQAAOkmRA= Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >. I feel this is an >important document to get updated, as there is very little else >available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something more and more >customers are asking for. I agree and hope someone will find the time to write it. Thanks, Henry Henry Sinnreich MCI 400 International Parkway Richardson, Texas 75081 USA Office: 972-729-4983 (SIP) VNET: 772-4983 (SIP) Have you disconnected the PBX? -----Original Message----- From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Hearty, John Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:46 AM To: sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com Subject: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? I posted this message a couple of weeks ago with no reply. Since then there have been other messages related to this draft, but no answers regarding getting updates to the draft. I have seen no response from the authors, and Jieying Li's email address bounced. I feel this is an important document to get updated, as there is very little else available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something more and more customers are asking for. John Hearty Level3 > -----Original Message----- > From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Hearty, John > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 4:37 PM > To: sipping@ietf.org; jieying@voxnetworks.com; jfm@cablelabs.com > Subject: [Sipping] realtimefax draft > > I see that this draft is expired. Is a new one due out? Also, I see > that it implies how the negotiation of t38 attributes is done, but there > is nowhere in this or any other document I am aware of that clearly > describes the offer/answer model for t38 attribute negotiation. Can > this be added to this draft? > > John Hearty > Level3 > > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 10 03:11:50 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA11447 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:11:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7rQv-0002hi-6q for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:11:29 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9A7BTd6010386 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:11:29 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7rQs-0002hQ-W1 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:11:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA11429 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7rQo-0002yM-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:11:22 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7rQo-0002yJ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:11:22 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7rQV-0002gB-4u; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:11:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7rPp-0002f5-9I for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:10:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA11409 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7rPl-0002xu-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:10:17 -0400 Received: from harjus.tutpro.com ([192.98.100.3] ident=mail) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7rPk-0002xr-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:10:16 -0400 Received: from jh by harjus.tutpro.com with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A7rPj-00009f-00 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:10:15 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16262.23383.806774.842061@harjus.tutpro.com> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:10:15 +0300 To: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under Emacs 21.2.1 From: Juha Heinanen Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] ack request uri in Basic Call Flow Examples Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in example 3.1 alice invites bob with contact Contact: when bob acks the invite, it uses the following request uri: ACK sip:bob@biloxi.example.com SIP/2.0 shoudn't request uri contain the remote target uri from the contact? at least it is so in the bye: BYE sip:alice@client.atlanta.example.com SIP/2.0 sent by bob and and also in ack of example 3.2: ACK sip:bob@client.biloxi.example.com -- juha _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 10 08:45:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA25471 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:45:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7wdo-0000Fr-EH for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:45:10 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9ACj8R6000967 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:45:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7wdo-0000FW-AM for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:45:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA25438 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:45:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7wdm-0002oS-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:45:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7wdm-0002oP-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:45:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7wdi-0000EC-In; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:45:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7wda-0000DK-Of for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:44:55 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA25422 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7wdZ-0002nz-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:44:53 -0400 Received: from mail1.mediatrix.com ([66.129.134.15]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7wdY-0002nF-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:44:52 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:42:28 -0400 Message-ID: <2702075D4DE2B043BF5EB82E9CFAD45BA49A55@webmail.mediatrix.com> Thread-Topic: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? Thread-Index: AcOC7FiDwIFNn8gDSgyIwiOkuUBW4gLl0nXQAAOkmRAAJmePAA== From: "Joel Payeur" To: "Henry Sinnreich" , "Hearty, John" , , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is it official then that no one is currently working on these issues? = As John said, we would also beneficiate from better implementation = guidelines and documentation. Joel > -----Original Message----- > From: sipping-admin@ietf.org=20 > [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of > Henry Sinnreich > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 14:47 > To: 'Hearty, John'; sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com > Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? >=20 >=20 > >. I feel this is an > >important document to get updated, as there is very little else > >available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something more and more > >customers are asking for. >=20 > I agree and hope someone will find the time to write it. >=20 > Thanks, Henry >=20 > Henry Sinnreich >=20 > MCI > 400 International Parkway > Richardson, Texas 75081 > USA >=20 > Office: 972-729-4983 (SIP) > VNET: 772-4983 (SIP) >=20 > Have you disconnected the PBX? >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org]=20 > On Behalf Of > Hearty, John > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:46 AM > To: sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com > Subject: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? >=20 > I posted this message a couple of weeks ago with no reply. Since then > there have been other messages related to this draft, but no answers > regarding getting updates to the draft. I have seen no response from > the authors, and Jieying Li's email address bounced. I feel=20 > this is an > important document to get updated, as there is very little else > available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something more and more > customers are asking for. >=20 > John Hearty > Level3 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sipping-admin@ietf.org=20 [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Hearty, John > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 4:37 PM > To: sipping@ietf.org; jieying@voxnetworks.com; jfm@cablelabs.com > Subject: [Sipping] realtimefax draft >=20 > I see that this draft is expired. Is a new one due out? Also, I see > that it implies how the negotiation of t38 attributes is done, but there > is nowhere in this or any other document I am aware of that clearly > describes the offer/answer model for t38 attribute negotiation. Can > this be added to this draft? >=20 > John Hearty > Level3 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 10 10:58:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02042 for ; 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Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:58:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7yiP-0000Du-UM; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:58:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7yhy-0000DQ-EP for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:57:34 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA01980 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:57:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7yhv-0004bR-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:57:31 -0400 Received: from sark.cc.gatech.edu ([130.207.7.23]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7yhv-0004bN-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:57:31 -0400 Received: from tokyo.cc.gatech.edu (tokyo.cc.gatech.edu [130.207.114.15]) by sark.cc.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9AEubTs022603; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:56:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (srikanth@localhost) by tokyo.cc.gatech.edu (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9AEtENe012383; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:55:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Srikanth Sundaragopalan To: Juha Heinanen cc: sipping@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Sipping] ack request uri in Basic Call Flow Examples In-Reply-To: <16262.23383.806774.842061@harjus.tutpro.com> Message-ID: References: <16262.23383.806774.842061@harjus.tutpro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply Inline Srikanth Sundaragopalan Graduate Student College of Computing Georgia Tech On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Juha Heinanen wrote: > in example 3.1 alice invites bob with contact > > Contact: > > when bob acks the invite, it uses the following request uri: > > ACK sip:bob@biloxi.example.com SIP/2.0 ACK is not sent by bob.It is sent by Alice and hence the R-URI is perfect. > > shoudn't request uri contain the remote target uri from the contact? > > at least it is so in the bye: > > BYE sip:alice@client.atlanta.example.com SIP/2.0 BYE is sent by bob,hence it has alice contact. > > sent by bob and and also in ack of example 3.2: > > ACK sip:bob@client.biloxi.example.com Same here.. > > -- juha > > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 10 11:32:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA03646 for ; 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Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:32:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7zFJ-0002XX-MP; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:32:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7zEz-0002X1-G9 for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:31:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA03607 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7zEy-00057g-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:31:40 -0400 Received: from harjus.tutpro.com ([192.98.100.3] ident=mail) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7zEx-00057c-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:31:40 -0400 Received: from jh by harjus.tutpro.com with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A7zEu-0003Yf-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:31:36 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16262.53464.13683.23147@harjus.tutpro.com> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:31:36 +0300 To: Srikanth Sundaragopalan Cc: sipping@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Sipping] ack request uri in Basic Call Flow Examples In-Reply-To: References: <16262.23383.806774.842061@harjus.tutpro.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under Emacs 21.2.1 From: Juha Heinanen Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Srikanth Sundaragopalan writes: > ACK is not sent by bob.It is sent by Alice and hence the R-URI is > perfect. yes, ack is sent by alice. my typo. however, i still think that request uri in the ack is incorrect. when alice receives ok from bob to her invite, remote target uri of the dialog at alice (uac) is set to contact uri: 12.1.2 UAC Behavior The remote target MUST be set to the URI from the Contact header field of the response. in the example this is: sip:bob@client.biloxi.example.com now alice goes on and sends ack, which in the example has this request uri: ACK sip:bob@biloxi.example.com SIP/2.0 since there was no rr'ing proxy on the path between alice and bob, route set at alice is empty and this applies: 12.2.1 UAC Behavior If the route set is empty, the UAC MUST place the remote target URI into the Request-URI. thus i still think that the ruri in the ack is incorrect. -- juha _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 10 12:56:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07101 for ; 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Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:55:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:55:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Srikanth Sundaragopalan To: Juha Heinanen cc: sipping@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Sipping] ack request uri in Basic Call Flow Examples In-Reply-To: <16262.53464.13683.23147@harjus.tutpro.com> Message-ID: References: <16262.23383.806774.842061@harjus.tutpro.com> <16262.53464.13683.23147@harjus.tutpro.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Yes,you are right.It should have been sip:bob@client.biloxi.example.com. Dint notice "clinet" in the contact address. regds Srikanth Sundaragopalan Graduate Student College of Computing Georgia Tech On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Juha Heinanen wrote: > Srikanth Sundaragopalan writes: > > > ACK is not sent by bob.It is sent by Alice and hence the R-URI is > > perfect. > > yes, ack is sent by alice. my typo. however, i still think that > request uri in the ack is incorrect. when alice receives ok from bob to > her invite, remote target uri of the dialog at alice (uac) is set to > contact uri: > > 12.1.2 UAC Behavior > > The remote target MUST be set to the URI from the Contact header field > of the response. > > in the example this is: > > sip:bob@client.biloxi.example.com > > now alice goes on and sends ack, which in the example has this request > uri: > > ACK sip:bob@biloxi.example.com SIP/2.0 > > since there was no rr'ing proxy on the path between alice and bob, route > set at alice is empty and this applies: > > 12.2.1 UAC Behavior > > If the route set is empty, the UAC MUST place the remote target URI into > the Request-URI. > > thus i still think that the ruri in the ack is incorrect. > > -- juha > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 10 12:59:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07257 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A80bX-0001V9-PT for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:59:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9AGx3o0005765 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:59:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A80bX-0001Uu-M8 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:59:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07218 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:58:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A80bV-0006Ey-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:59:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A80bV-0006Ev-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:59:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A80bU-0001SV-VR; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:59:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A80ag-0001Pf-LW for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:58:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA07154 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:58:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A80ae-0006D8-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:58:08 -0400 Received: from dgesmtp02.wcom.com ([199.249.16.17]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A80ad-0006Cv-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:58:07 -0400 Received: from pmismtp01.wcomnet.com ([166.38.62.36]) by firewall.wcom.com (Iplanet MTA 5.2) with ESMTP id <0HMJ0096XWDATH@firewall.wcom.com> for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:55:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pmismtp01.wcomnet.com by pmismtp01.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with SMTP id <0HMJ00A01WD8E9@pmismtp01.wcomnet.com>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:55:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from xs578v3521.mci.com ([166.50.113.48]) by pmismtp01.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HMJ00781WD7S9@pmismtp01.wcomnet.com>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:55:57 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:55:55 -0500 From: Alan Johnston Subject: Re: [Sipping] ack request uri in Basic Call Flow Examples In-reply-to: <16262.53464.13683.23147@harjus.tutpro.com> X-Sender: Alan.Johnston@pop.mcit.com To: Juha Heinanen , Srikanth Sundaragopalan Cc: sipping@ietf.org Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031010115424.02e18e60@pop.mcit.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed References: <16262.23383.806774.842061@harjus.tutpro.com> Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 06:31 PM 10/10/2003 +0300, Juha Heinanen wrote: >Srikanth Sundaragopalan writes: > > > ACK is not sent by bob.It is sent by Alice and hence the R-URI is > > perfect. > >yes, ack is sent by alice. my typo. however, i still think that >request uri in the ack is incorrect. when alice receives ok from bob to >her invite, remote target uri of the dialog at alice (uac) is set to >contact uri: > >12.1.2 UAC Behavior > >The remote target MUST be set to the URI from the Contact header field >of the response. > >in the example this is: > >sip:bob@client.biloxi.example.com > >now alice goes on and sends ack, which in the example has this request >uri: > >ACK sip:bob@biloxi.example.com SIP/2.0 > >since there was no rr'ing proxy on the path between alice and bob, route >set at alice is empty and this applies: > >12.2.1 UAC Behavior > >If the route set is empty, the UAC MUST place the remote target URI into >the Request-URI. > >thus i still think that the ruri in the ack is incorrect. Juha, You are correct - the Request-URI for this ACK should be sip:bob@client.biloxi.example.com. I will fix this in the authors 48 hours. I think the rest of the ACKs in the document have the correct Request-URIs. Thanks, Alan. >-- juha > >_______________________________________________ >Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping >This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP >Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip >Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 10 15:39:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA15895 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A836b-0005b7-S1 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:17 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9AJdHV9021511 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:17 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A836b-0005as-O6 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA15818 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A836Z-0000X4-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:16 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A836Z-0000X0-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:15 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A836M-0005Zh-3P; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:39:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A835a-0005Z4-DP for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:38:14 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA15630; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:38:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310101938.PAA15630@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: sipping@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:38:05 -0400 Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Extending the Session Initiation Protocol Reason Header to account for Preemption Events Author(s) : J. Polk Filename : draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2003-10-10 This document proposes an extension to the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Reason Header [1] to include in a BYE Method Request [2] as a result of a session preemption event either at a user agent (UA), or somewhere in the network using RSVP [3]. This document does not attempt to address routers failing in the packet path; but a deliberate event of tearing down a flow between UAs. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-10143107.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-10143107.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 13 02:50:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA24987 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8wX1-0001Cy-4S for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:50:16 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9D6oExV004641 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:50:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8wX0-0001Ck-7o for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:50:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA24965 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8wWw-0007XZ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:50:10 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8wWv-0007XV-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:50:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8wWo-0001Bd-V0; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:50:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8wVr-0001A9-92 for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:49:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA24950 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:48:53 -0400 (EDT) From: hisham.khartabil@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8wVn-0007X2-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:48:59 -0400 Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com ([131.228.20.21]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8wVb-0007Wb-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:48:48 -0400 Received: from esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir01nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.33]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id h9D6mKZ23795 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:48:20 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:48:19 +0300 Received: from esebe019.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.58]) by esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:48:20 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Sipping] ack request uri in Basic Call Flow Examples Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:48:19 +0300 Message-ID: <2038BCC78B1AD641891A0D1AE133DBB701797243@esebe019.ntc.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: [Sipping] ack request uri in Basic Call Flow Examples Thread-Index: AcOPT+tO7OFJ0r5gS6mOrVPN4ujL3ACBf6JA To: , , Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2003 06:48:20.0029 (UTC) FILETIME=[FD0DBED0:01C39155] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Should the transport=3Dtcp be also reflected in the request-URI? /Hisham > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Alan Johnston [mailto:alan.johnston@mci.com] > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 7:56 PM > To: Juha Heinanen; Srikanth Sundaragopalan > Cc: sipping@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Sipping] ack request uri in Basic Call Flow Examples >=20 >=20 > At 06:31 PM 10/10/2003 +0300, Juha Heinanen wrote: > >Srikanth Sundaragopalan writes: > > > > > ACK is not sent by bob.It is sent by Alice and hence the R-URI is > > > perfect. > > > >yes, ack is sent by alice. my typo. however, i still think that > >request uri in the ack is incorrect. when alice receives ok=20 > from bob to > >her invite, remote target uri of the dialog at alice (uac) is set to > >contact uri: > > > >12.1.2 UAC Behavior > > > >The remote target MUST be set to the URI from the Contact=20 > header field > >of the response. > > > >in the example this is: > > > >sip:bob@client.biloxi.example.com > > > >now alice goes on and sends ack, which in the example has=20 > this request > >uri: > > > >ACK sip:bob@biloxi.example.com SIP/2.0 > > > >since there was no rr'ing proxy on the path between alice=20 > and bob, route > >set at alice is empty and this applies: > > > >12.2.1 UAC Behavior > > > >If the route set is empty, the UAC MUST place the remote=20 > target URI into > >the Request-URI. > > > >thus i still think that the ruri in the ack is incorrect. >=20 > Juha, >=20 > You are correct - the Request-URI for this ACK should be=20 > sip:bob@client.biloxi.example.com. I will fix this in the authors 48=20 > hours. I think the rest of the ACKs in the document have the correct=20 > Request-URIs. >=20 > Thanks, > Alan. >=20 > >-- juha > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > >This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > >Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > >Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP >=20 _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 13 05:50:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA28450 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 05:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8zLC-0008Fd-0O for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 05:50:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9D9oDA4031711 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 05:50:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8zLB-0008FO-Ki for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 05:50:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA28441 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 05:50:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8zL7-0000vd-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 05:50:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8zL7-0000va-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 05:50:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8zL0-0008E6-Hf; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 05:50:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A8zKW-0008D8-UZ for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 05:49:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA28427 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 05:49:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8zKT-0000vG-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 05:49:29 -0400 Received: from mta0.huawei.com ([61.144.161.41] helo=huawei.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A8zKS-0000ua-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 05:49:28 -0400 Received: from p70008 (huawei.com [172.17.1.62]) by mta0.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 0.8 (built Jul 12 2002)) with ESMTPA id <0HMO00D7HWJ0P0@mta0.huawei.com> for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:47:30 +0800 (CST) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:48:35 +0800 From: Prasanna Venkatesh To: sipping@ietf.org, eric_zimmerer@yahoo.com, Aparna.Vemuri@Qwest.com, jon.peterson@neustar.com, mjh@icir.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: [Sipping] Query on example in RFC-3204 Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi, I have a doubt if the examples provided in RFC-3204 section 4 are correct. In the following extract from the example in section 4.1 m=audio 9092 RTP/AVP 0 3 4 --unique-boundary-1 Content-Type: application/ISUP; version=nxv3; base=etsi121 there is only one CRLF between the "m" line of the SDP and the boundary. As per RFC-2046 (MIME), the CRLF preceeding the boundary belongs to the boundary. In which case last "m" line of the sdp is not terminated by a CRLF which is a violation of the SDP standards. Though I understand these examples are just provided for clarifying the semantics, still I would prefer to get a clarification, if there is any special case in which this violation of either RFC-2046 or draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-new-13 (and hence RFC-2327) is allowed. Thanks in advance for the clarification. Regards, Prasanna _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 13 12:24:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13857 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A95UO-0002b4-5D for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:24:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9DGO8ha009976 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:24:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A95UN-0002ap-S7 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:24:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13849 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:23:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A95UM-00051M-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:24:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A95UL-00051J-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:24:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A95UH-0002Zj-VG; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:24:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A95UA-0002ZQ-5D for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:23:56 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13839 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:23:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A95U8-000510-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:23:52 -0400 Received: from machine77.level3.com ([209.244.4.106] helo=cc26-01.idc1.level3.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A95U7-00050q-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:23:52 -0400 Received: from cc26-01.idc1.level3.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0CA087013; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:23:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from idc1exc0001.corp.global.level3.com (idc1exc0001.corp.global.level3.com [10.1.7.194]) by cc26-01.idc1.level3.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 77E0F8597D; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:23:15 +0000 (GMT) Received: from idc1exc0004.corp.global.level3.com ([10.1.8.20]) by idc1exc0001.corp.global.level3.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:23:15 -0600 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6470.0 Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:23:14 -0600 Message-ID: <3F75233A2E57CC468B35F3B1FAF71EC013AA3F@idc1exc0004.corp.global.level3.com> Thread-Topic: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? Thread-Index: AcOC7FiDwIFNn8gDSgyIwiOkuUBW4gLl0nXQAAOkmRAAJmePAACeD/QA From: "Hearty, John" To: "Gonzalo Camarillo" , "Dean Willis" , "Rohan Mahy" Cc: "Joel Payeur" , "Henry Sinnreich" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Oct 2003 16:23:15.0331 (UTC) FILETIME=[4DDB1D30:01C391A6] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have still heard no comment from the authors of this draft. I see that the following was listed under Goals and Milestones in the SIPPING charter which has apparently been missed: Jun 03 Submit Internet-Draft on T.38 Fax Call Flows to IESG for consideration as a BCP I turn now to the SIPPING chairs for direction on the future of this draft. Personally, I am looking for some standardization that covers the offer/answer model for T.38. I'm not sure if this is something that should be included in this draft, or a separate effort in the MMUSIC working group. If it is agreeable this information should be included in this draft, I am willing to volunteer to pick up updates to this draft with one other co-author if that is what it will take to get this moving again. Please advise. Thanks. John Hearty Level3 > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel Payeur [mailto:jpayeur@mediatrix.com] > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 6:42 AM > To: Henry Sinnreich; Hearty, John; sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com > Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? >=20 > Is it official then that no one is currently working on these issues? As > John said, we would also beneficiate from better implementation guidelines > and documentation. >=20 > Joel >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sipping-admin@ietf.org > > [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of > > Henry Sinnreich > > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 14:47 > > To: 'Hearty, John'; sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com > > Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? > > > > > > >. I feel this is an > > >important document to get updated, as there is very little else > > >available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something more and more > > >customers are asking for. > > > > I agree and hope someone will find the time to write it. > > > > Thanks, Henry > > > > Henry Sinnreich > > > > MCI > > 400 International Parkway > > Richardson, Texas 75081 > > USA > > > > Office: 972-729-4983 (SIP) > > VNET: 772-4983 (SIP) > > > > Have you disconnected the PBX? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] > > On Behalf Of > > Hearty, John > > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:46 AM > > To: sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com > > Subject: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? > > > > I posted this message a couple of weeks ago with no reply. Since then > > there have been other messages related to this draft, but no answers > > regarding getting updates to the draft. I have seen no response from > > the authors, and Jieying Li's email address bounced. I feel > > this is an > > important document to get updated, as there is very little else > > available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something more and more > > customers are asking for. > > > > John Hearty > > Level3 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: sipping-admin@ietf.org > [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of > > Hearty, John > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 4:37 PM > > To: sipping@ietf.org; jieying@voxnetworks.com; jfm@cablelabs.com > > Subject: [Sipping] realtimefax draft > > > > I see that this draft is expired. Is a new one due out? Also, I see > > that it implies how the negotiation of t38 attributes is done, but > there > > is nowhere in this or any other document I am aware of that clearly > > describes the offer/answer model for t38 attribute negotiation. Can > > this be added to this draft? > > > > John Hearty > > Level3 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 13 13:44:45 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16899 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A96k1-0006Bh-L9 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:44:24 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9DHiLSP023785 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:44:21 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A96k1-0006BY-FL for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:44:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16886 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A96jz-0005yK-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:44:19 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A96jy-0005yH-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:44:18 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A96jh-0006AK-Po; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:44:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A96iy-00069B-1o for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:43:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16860 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:43:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A96iv-0005xN-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:43:13 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A96iv-0005wb-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:43:13 -0400 Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9DHgdeH029121; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id AML78241; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:47:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Cc: "Gonzalo Camarillo" , "Dean Willis" , "Joel Payeur" , "Henry Sinnreich" , , To: "Hearty, John" From: Rohan Mahy In-Reply-To: <3F75233A2E57CC468B35F3B1FAF71EC013AA3F@idc1exc0004.corp.global.level3.com> Message-Id: <431CFE0A-FDA5-11D7-8F17-0003938AF740@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Both realtime fax and the ICE mechanism are moving to MMUSIC, as they contain mostly SDP extensions. I believe Jean-Francois was planning to submit a new version of realtime-fax to MMUSIC before the IETF 58 draft deadline. thanks, -rohan On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 09:23 AM, Hearty, John wrote: > I have still heard no comment from the authors of this draft. I see > that the following was listed under Goals and Milestones in the SIPPING > charter which has apparently been missed: > > Jun 03 Submit Internet-Draft on T.38 Fax Call Flows to IESG for > consideration as a BCP > > I turn now to the SIPPING chairs for direction on the future of this > draft. Personally, I am looking for some standardization that covers > the offer/answer model for T.38. I'm not sure if this is something > that > should be included in this draft, or a separate effort in the MMUSIC > working group. If it is agreeable this information should be included > in this draft, I am willing to volunteer to pick up updates to this > draft with one other co-author if that is what it will take to get this > moving again. Please advise. Thanks. > > John Hearty > Level3 > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joel Payeur [mailto:jpayeur@mediatrix.com] >> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 6:42 AM >> To: Henry Sinnreich; Hearty, John; sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com >> Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? >> >> Is it official then that no one is currently working on these issues? > As >> John said, we would also beneficiate from better implementation > guidelines >> and documentation. >> >> Joel >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: sipping-admin@ietf.org >>> [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of >>> Henry Sinnreich >>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 14:47 >>> To: 'Hearty, John'; sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com >>> Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? >>> >>> >>>> . I feel this is an >>>> important document to get updated, as there is very little else >>>> available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something more and more >>>> customers are asking for. >>> >>> I agree and hope someone will find the time to write it. >>> >>> Thanks, Henry >>> >>> Henry Sinnreich >>> >>> MCI >>> 400 International Parkway >>> Richardson, Texas 75081 >>> USA >>> >>> Office: 972-729-4983 (SIP) >>> VNET: 772-4983 (SIP) >>> >>> Have you disconnected the PBX? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] >>> On Behalf Of >>> Hearty, John >>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:46 AM >>> To: sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com >>> Subject: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? >>> >>> I posted this message a couple of weeks ago with no reply. Since > then >>> there have been other messages related to this draft, but no answers >>> regarding getting updates to the draft. I have seen no response > from >>> the authors, and Jieying Li's email address bounced. I feel >>> this is an >>> important document to get updated, as there is very little else >>> available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something more and more >>> customers are asking for. >>> >>> John Hearty >>> Level3 >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: sipping-admin@ietf.org >> [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf >> Of >>> Hearty, John >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 4:37 PM >>> To: sipping@ietf.org; jieying@voxnetworks.com; jfm@cablelabs.com >>> Subject: [Sipping] realtimefax draft >>> >>> I see that this draft is expired. Is a new one due out? Also, I > see >>> that it implies how the negotiation of t38 attributes is done, but >> there >>> is nowhere in this or any other document I am aware of that clearly >>> describes the offer/answer model for t38 attribute negotiation. Can >>> this be added to this draft? >>> >>> John Hearty >>> Level3 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping >>> This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP >>> Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip >>> Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping >> This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP >> Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip >> Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping >> This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP >> Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip >> Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 14 09:09:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07858 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:09:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9OvM-0004rr-Eb for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:09:18 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9ED9G9W018707 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:09:16 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9OvM-0004re-5q for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:09:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07840 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:09:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9OvK-0002GT-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:09:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9OvK-0002GP-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:09:14 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9Ov8-0004oK-0a; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:09:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9Ou8-0004hr-Ey for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:08:01 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07752 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:07:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9Ou6-0002EE-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:07:58 -0400 Received: from ondar.cablelabs.com ([192.160.73.61]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9Ou5-0002DC-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:07:58 -0400 Received: from srvxchg.cablelabs.com (srvxchg.cablelabs.com [10.5.0.20]) by ondar.cablelabs.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ED7D10022805; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:07:14 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:07:13 -0600 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? Thread-Index: AcORsWlk8ry6I0CQT7CwnLZFKETzJAAohFvQ From: "Jean-Francois Mule" To: "Rohan Mahy" , "Hearty, John" Cc: "Gonzalo Camarillo" , "Dean Willis" , "Joel Payeur" , "Henry Sinnreich" , X-Approved: ondar Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Sorry for my lack of follow-up and the delayed response. I still plan on submitting an updated draft for IETF#58 (with minimal = updates). Any technical comments on the draft (I've been parsing the archive and = addressing or logging comments as I go through them)? Jean-Fran=E7ois > -----Original Message----- > From: Rohan Mahy [mailto:rohan@cisco.com]=20 > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 11:47 AM > To: Hearty, John > Cc: Gonzalo Camarillo; Dean Willis; Joel Payeur; Henry=20 > Sinnreich; sipping@ietf.org; Jean-Francois Mule > Subject: Re: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? >=20 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Both realtime fax and the ICE mechanism are moving to MMUSIC, as they=20 > contain mostly SDP extensions. >=20 > I believe Jean-Francois was planning to submit a new version of=20 > realtime-fax to MMUSIC before the IETF 58 draft deadline. >=20 > thanks, > -rohan >=20 > On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 09:23 AM, Hearty, John wrote: >=20 > > I have still heard no comment from the authors of this=20 > draft. I see=20 > > that the following was listed under Goals and Milestones in the=20 > > SIPPING charter which has apparently been missed: > > > > Jun 03 Submit Internet-Draft on T.38 Fax Call Flows to IESG for > > consideration as a BCP > > > > I turn now to the SIPPING chairs for direction on the=20 > future of this=20 > > draft. Personally, I am looking for some standardization=20 > that covers=20 > > the offer/answer model for T.38. I'm not sure if this is something=20 > > that should be included in this draft, or a separate effort in the=20 > > MMUSIC working group. If it is agreeable this information=20 > should be=20 > > included in this draft, I am willing to volunteer to pick=20 > up updates=20 > > to this draft with one other co-author if that is what it=20 > will take to=20 > > get this moving again. Please advise. Thanks. > > > > John Hearty > > Level3 > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Joel Payeur [mailto:jpayeur@mediatrix.com] > >> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 6:42 AM > >> To: Henry Sinnreich; Hearty, John; sipping@ietf.org;=20 > >> jfm@cablelabs.com > >> Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? > >> > >> Is it official then that no one is currently working on=20 > these issues? > > As > >> John said, we would also beneficiate from better implementation > > guidelines > >> and documentation. > >> > >> Joel > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org]On=20 > >>> Behalf Of Henry Sinnreich > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 14:47 > >>> To: 'Hearty, John'; sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com > >>> Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? > >>> > >>> > >>>> . I feel this is an > >>>> important document to get updated, as there is very little else=20 > >>>> available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something=20 > more and more=20 > >>>> customers are asking for. > >>> > >>> I agree and hope someone will find the time to write it. > >>> > >>> Thanks, Henry > >>> > >>> Henry Sinnreich > >>> > >>> MCI > >>> 400 International Parkway > >>> Richardson, Texas 75081 > >>> USA > >>> > >>> Office: 972-729-4983 (SIP) > >>> VNET: 772-4983 (SIP) > >>> > >>> Have you disconnected the PBX? > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On=20 > >>> Behalf Of Hearty, John > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:46 AM > >>> To: sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com > >>> Subject: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? > >>> > >>> I posted this message a couple of weeks ago with no reply. Since > > then > >>> there have been other messages related to this draft, but=20 > no answers=20 > >>> regarding getting updates to the draft. I have seen no response > > from > >>> the authors, and Jieying Li's email address bounced. I=20 > feel this is=20 > >>> an important document to get updated, as there is very little else > >>> available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something=20 > more and more > >>> customers are asking for. > >>> > >>> John Hearty > >>> Level3 > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: sipping-admin@ietf.org > >> [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf > >> Of > >>> Hearty, John > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 4:37 PM > >>> To: sipping@ietf.org; jieying@voxnetworks.com; jfm@cablelabs.com > >>> Subject: [Sipping] realtimefax draft > >>> > >>> I see that this draft is expired. Is a new one due out? Also, I > > see > >>> that it implies how the negotiation of t38 attributes is done, but > >> there > >>> is nowhere in this or any other document I am aware of=20 > that clearly=20 > >>> describes the offer/answer model for t38 attribute=20 > negotiation. Can=20 > >>> this be added to this draft? > >>> > >>> John Hearty > >>> Level3 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sipping mailing list =20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > >>> This list=20 > is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use=20 > >>> sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use=20 > >>> sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sipping mailing list =20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > >> This list=20 > is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use=20 > >> sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use=20 > >> sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sipping mailing list =20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > >> This list=20 > is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use=20 > >> sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use=20 > >> sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > > >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 14 09:36:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA08869 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:36:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9PLL-000679-7z for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:36:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9EDa7Aj023499 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:36:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9PLL-00066w-4Z for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:36:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA08852 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:35:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9PLJ-0002cP-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:36:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9PLI-0002cM-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:36:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9PLG-000653-9a; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:36:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9PKa-00063M-5Y for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:35:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA08803 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9PKY-0002bJ-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:35:18 -0400 Received: from mail1.mediatrix.com ([66.129.134.15]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9PKX-0002ae-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:35:17 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:32:53 -0400 Message-ID: <2702075D4DE2B043BF5EB82E9CFAD45B097376@webmail.mediatrix.com> Thread-Topic: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? Thread-Index: AcORsWlk8ry6I0CQT7CwnLZFKETzJAAohFvQAADLo7A= From: "Joel Payeur" To: "Jean-Francois Mule" , "Rohan Mahy" , "Hearty, John" Cc: "Gonzalo Camarillo" , "Dean Willis" , "Henry Sinnreich" , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Glad you're still on the case Jean-Francois. For my part, i think it's = time that we (my company) take steps to help the developping T38/SIP = standard. Two things that come to mind are: 1- Should we enforce a one-way negotiation scheme? (perhaps we can keep = the "anyone" strategy, and add a short comment on using 491 to resolve = glares in the draft) 2- For clear channel, can we add something in the SDP that will tell = whether it's a clear channel or voice renegotiation? Say, = a=3Dclearchannelfax media level attribute. Joel > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean-Francois Mule [mailto:jf.mule@cablelabs.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:07 > To: Rohan Mahy; Hearty, John > Cc: Gonzalo Camarillo; Dean Willis; Joel Payeur; Henry Sinnreich; > sipping@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? >=20 >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > Sorry for my lack of follow-up and the delayed response. > I still plan on submitting an updated draft for IETF#58 (with=20 > minimal updates). >=20 > Any technical comments on the draft (I've been parsing the=20 > archive and addressing or logging comments as I go through them)? >=20 > Jean-Fran=E7ois >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rohan Mahy [mailto:rohan@cisco.com]=20 > > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 11:47 AM > > To: Hearty, John > > Cc: Gonzalo Camarillo; Dean Willis; Joel Payeur; Henry=20 > > Sinnreich; sipping@ietf.org; Jean-Francois Mule > > Subject: Re: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? > >=20 > >=20 > > Hi, > >=20 > > Both realtime fax and the ICE mechanism are moving to=20 > MMUSIC, as they=20 > > contain mostly SDP extensions. > >=20 > > I believe Jean-Francois was planning to submit a new version of=20 > > realtime-fax to MMUSIC before the IETF 58 draft deadline. > >=20 > > thanks, > > -rohan > >=20 > > On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 09:23 AM, Hearty, John wrote: > >=20 > > > I have still heard no comment from the authors of this=20 > > draft. I see=20 > > > that the following was listed under Goals and Milestones in the=20 > > > SIPPING charter which has apparently been missed: > > > > > > Jun 03 Submit Internet-Draft on T.38 Fax Call Flows to IESG for > > > consideration as a BCP > > > > > > I turn now to the SIPPING chairs for direction on the=20 > > future of this=20 > > > draft. Personally, I am looking for some standardization=20 > > that covers=20 > > > the offer/answer model for T.38. I'm not sure if this is=20 > something=20 > > > that should be included in this draft, or a separate=20 > effort in the=20 > > > MMUSIC working group. If it is agreeable this information=20 > > should be=20 > > > included in this draft, I am willing to volunteer to pick=20 > > up updates=20 > > > to this draft with one other co-author if that is what it=20 > > will take to=20 > > > get this moving again. Please advise. Thanks. > > > > > > John Hearty > > > Level3 > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Joel Payeur [mailto:jpayeur@mediatrix.com] > > >> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 6:42 AM > > >> To: Henry Sinnreich; Hearty, John; sipping@ietf.org;=20 > > >> jfm@cablelabs.com > > >> Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? > > >> > > >> Is it official then that no one is currently working on=20 > > these issues? > > > As > > >> John said, we would also beneficiate from better implementation > > > guidelines > > >> and documentation. > > >> > > >> Joel > > >> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org]On=20 > > >>> Behalf Of Henry Sinnreich > > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 14:47 > > >>> To: 'Hearty, John'; sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com > > >>> Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> . I feel this is an > > >>>> important document to get updated, as there is very=20 > little else=20 > > >>>> available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something=20 > > more and more=20 > > >>>> customers are asking for. > > >>> > > >>> I agree and hope someone will find the time to write it. > > >>> > > >>> Thanks, Henry > > >>> > > >>> Henry Sinnreich > > >>> > > >>> MCI > > >>> 400 International Parkway > > >>> Richardson, Texas 75081 > > >>> USA > > >>> > > >>> Office: 972-729-4983 (SIP) > > >>> VNET: 772-4983 (SIP) > > >>> > > >>> Have you disconnected the PBX? > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On=20 > > >>> Behalf Of Hearty, John > > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:46 AM > > >>> To: sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com > > >>> Subject: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? > > >>> > > >>> I posted this message a couple of weeks ago with no=20 > reply. Since > > > then > > >>> there have been other messages related to this draft, but=20 > > no answers=20 > > >>> regarding getting updates to the draft. I have seen no response > > > from > > >>> the authors, and Jieying Li's email address bounced. I=20 > > feel this is=20 > > >>> an important document to get updated, as there is very=20 > little else > > >>> available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something=20 > > more and more > > >>> customers are asking for. > > >>> > > >>> John Hearty > > >>> Level3 > > >>> > > >>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>> From: sipping-admin@ietf.org > > >> [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf > > >> Of > > >>> Hearty, John > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 4:37 PM > > >>> To: sipping@ietf.org; jieying@voxnetworks.com; jfm@cablelabs.com > > >>> Subject: [Sipping] realtimefax draft > > >>> > > >>> I see that this draft is expired. Is a new one due=20 > out? Also, I > > > see > > >>> that it implies how the negotiation of t38 attributes=20 > is done, but > > >> there > > >>> is nowhere in this or any other document I am aware of=20 > > that clearly=20 > > >>> describes the offer/answer model for t38 attribute=20 > > negotiation. Can=20 > > >>> this be added to this draft? > > >>> > > >>> John Hearty > > >>> Level3 > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Sipping mailing list =20 > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > > >>> This list=20 > > is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use=20 > > >>> sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on=20 > current sip Use=20 > > >>> sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Sipping mailing list =20 > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > > >> This list=20 > > is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use=20 > > >> sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on=20 > current sip Use=20 > > >> sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Sipping mailing list =20 > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > > >> This list=20 > > is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use=20 > > >> sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on=20 > current sip Use=20 > > >> sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > > > > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 14 11:04:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA13763 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9QiY-0003zT-OP for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:04:10 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9EF4AEZ015335 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:04:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9QiY-0003zG-LZ for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:04:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA13749 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9QiV-0003rg-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:04:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9QiV-0003rd-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:04:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9QiP-0003xu-0P; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:04:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9QiM-0003xe-UO for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:03:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA13741 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9QiK-0003rV-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:03:56 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9QiJ-0003qy-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:03:55 -0400 Received: from wells.cisco.com (wells.cisco.com [171.71.177.223]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9EF3LSw001948 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jmpolk-w2k01.diablo.cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by wells.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id IAA16125 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:03:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20031014095503.0767fdd8@localhost> X-Sender: jmpolk@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:03:25 -0500 To: sipping@ietf.org From: "James M. Polk" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [Sipping] New ID on Reader Header for Preemption Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , I've just posted this new ID that I believe some on this list will find of interest This document proposes an extension to the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Reason Header to include in a BYE Method Request as a result of a session preemption event either at a user agent (UA), or somewhere in the network using RSVP. This document does not attempt to address routers failing in the packet path; but a deliberate event of tearing down a flow between UAs. > Title : Extending the Session Initiation Protocol Reason > Header to account for Preemption Events > Author(s) : J. Polk > Filename : > draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt > Pages : 14 > Date : 2003-10-10 > > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt > > cheers, James ******************* Truth is not to be argued... it is to be presented _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 14 16:47:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01787 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9W4V-0000LV-DK for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:47:13 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9EKlBH9001325 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:47:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9W4V-0000LH-6Y for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:47:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01755 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:47:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9W4T-0000oX-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:47:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9W4S-0000oU-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:47:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9W4L-0000K6-OL; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:47:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9W3M-0000IF-OW for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:46:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01716 for ; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9W3K-0000nH-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:45:58 -0400 Received: from machine77.level3.com ([209.244.4.106] helo=cc26-01.idc1.level3.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9W3J-0000mo-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:45:58 -0400 Received: from cc26-01.idc1.level3.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ABEE83D49; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:45:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from idc1exc0001.corp.global.level3.com (idc1exc0001.corp.global.level3.com [10.1.7.194]) by cc26-01.idc1.level3.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0C17C83E09; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 20:45:27 +0000 (GMT) Received: from idc1exc0004.corp.global.level3.com ([10.1.8.20]) by idc1exc0001.corp.global.level3.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:45:26 -0600 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6470.0 Subject: [Sipping] realtimefax draft comments Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:45:26 -0600 Message-ID: <3F75233A2E57CC468B35F3B1FAF71EC013AA4C@idc1exc0004.corp.global.level3.com> Thread-Topic: [Sipping] realtimefax draft comments Thread-Index: AcORsWlk8ry6I0CQT7CwnLZFKETzJAAohFvQAADLo7AADNIOoA== From: "Hearty, John" To: "Jean-Francois Mule" Cc: "Henry Sinnreich" , , "Joel Payeur" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2003 20:45:26.0775 (UTC) FILETIME=[18F0B870:01C39294] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jean-Fran=E7ois, As mentioned, if there is enough time, I'd like to see a section = detailing offer/answer negotiation for each of the T38 attributes. The = only one that is currently well covered (in section 4.2) is = T38MaxBitRate. For example, if a receiving gateway re-Invites upon fax = detection with a=3DT38FaxMaxBuffer:72, but the emitting gateway's buffer = capability is only 32, does it respond with a 200 OK with = a=3DT38FaxMaxBuffer:32 and the T38 setup proceeds? This document should probably incorporate examples for the MIME sub-type = audio/t38 where T.38 is transported in RTP. I'm a bit uncomfortable with Joel's second comment advocating a = clearchannelfax attribute. I'm not sure why we need to signal what = specific application might be running over a particular codec. If = something like that is needed, it might be better to use = draft-ietf-avt-rtp-clearmode-03.txt. Other comments are below. I only reviewed the SIP in section 5.2.2 in = detail, but noticed similar issues in other sections, I'll leave those = for you to correct (let me know if you need them all explicitly = identified). You might consider ignoring all my comments below and only showing the = SDP in the MMUSIC version of this draft, since SIP flows shouldn't = really be in an MMUSIC draft. This may make your job easier by = eliminating the SIP message scrubbing work, and make the draft much = simpler. 1. The Record-Route usage is not quite RFC 2543 compliant, nor RFC 3261 = compliant. I suggest re-vamping everything to show loose routing usage = as defined in RFC 3261. 2. F11 through F22 need to have the URIs in the To and From headers = swapped, as these requests originated from the other UA. 3. For F11 through F16, choose some other CSeq value, as each UA = maintains these values independently. The IFTGW UA should have chosen a = new CSeq, not increased by one from the last one chosen by the IFT UA. = Then, F17 through F22 should be increased by one from that chosen in = F11. Finally, the CSeq for F23 through F26 should be 18, an increase of = 1 from that last used by the IFT UA. 4. F23 through F26 is missing a branch parm on the first Via. The = Branch parm on the proxy's Via in F25 doesn't match that in F24. 5. Sections 6.1.1, 6.1.2, 6.2.1 and 6.2.2 are missing two ACKs after = F14. John Hearty Level3 > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel Payeur [mailto:jpayeur@mediatrix.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 7:33 AM > To: Jean-Francois Mule; Rohan Mahy; Hearty, John > Cc: Gonzalo Camarillo; Dean Willis; Henry Sinnreich; sipping@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? >=20 > Glad you're still on the case Jean-Francois. For my part, i think = it's > time that we (my company) take steps to help the developping T38/SIP > standard. >=20 > Two things that come to mind are: >=20 > 1- Should we enforce a one-way negotiation scheme? (perhaps we can = keep > the "anyone" strategy, and add a short comment on using 491 to resolve > glares in the draft) >=20 > 2- For clear channel, can we add something in the SDP that will tell > whether it's a clear channel or voice renegotiation? Say, > a=3Dclearchannelfax media level attribute. >=20 > Joel >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jean-Francois Mule [mailto:jf.mule@cablelabs.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:07 > > To: Rohan Mahy; Hearty, John > > Cc: Gonzalo Camarillo; Dean Willis; Joel Payeur; Henry Sinnreich; > > sipping@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > Sorry for my lack of follow-up and the delayed response. > > I still plan on submitting an updated draft for IETF#58 (with > > minimal updates). > > > > Any technical comments on the draft (I've been parsing the > > archive and addressing or logging comments as I go through them)? > > > > Jean-Fran=E7ois > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Rohan Mahy [mailto:rohan@cisco.com] > > > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 11:47 AM > > > To: Hearty, John > > > Cc: Gonzalo Camarillo; Dean Willis; Joel Payeur; Henry > > > Sinnreich; sipping@ietf.org; Jean-Francois Mule > > > Subject: Re: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Both realtime fax and the ICE mechanism are moving to > > MMUSIC, as they > > > contain mostly SDP extensions. > > > > > > I believe Jean-Francois was planning to submit a new version of > > > realtime-fax to MMUSIC before the IETF 58 draft deadline. > > > > > > thanks, > > > -rohan > > > > > > On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 09:23 AM, Hearty, John wrote: > > > > > > > I have still heard no comment from the authors of this > > > draft. I see > > > > that the following was listed under Goals and Milestones in the > > > > SIPPING charter which has apparently been missed: > > > > > > > > Jun 03 Submit Internet-Draft on T.38 Fax Call Flows to IESG = for > > > > consideration as a BCP > > > > > > > > I turn now to the SIPPING chairs for direction on the > > > future of this > > > > draft. Personally, I am looking for some standardization > > > that covers > > > > the offer/answer model for T.38. I'm not sure if this is > > something > > > > that should be included in this draft, or a separate > > effort in the > > > > MMUSIC working group. If it is agreeable this information > > > should be > > > > included in this draft, I am willing to volunteer to pick > > > up updates > > > > to this draft with one other co-author if that is what it > > > will take to > > > > get this moving again. Please advise. Thanks. > > > > > > > > John Hearty > > > > Level3 > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: Joel Payeur [mailto:jpayeur@mediatrix.com] > > > >> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 6:42 AM > > > >> To: Henry Sinnreich; Hearty, John; sipping@ietf.org; > > > >> jfm@cablelabs.com > > > >> Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? > > > >> > > > >> Is it official then that no one is currently working on > > > these issues? > > > > As > > > >> John said, we would also beneficiate from better implementation > > > > guidelines > > > >> and documentation. > > > >> > > > >> Joel > > > >> > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>> From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org]On > > > >>> Behalf Of Henry Sinnreich > > > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 14:47 > > > >>> To: 'Hearty, John'; sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com > > > >>> Subject: RE: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>> . I feel this is an > > > >>>> important document to get updated, as there is very > > little else > > > >>>> available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something > > > more and more > > > >>>> customers are asking for. > > > >>> > > > >>> I agree and hope someone will find the time to write it. > > > >>> > > > >>> Thanks, Henry > > > >>> > > > >>> Henry Sinnreich > > > >>> > > > >>> MCI > > > >>> 400 International Parkway > > > >>> Richardson, Texas 75081 > > > >>> USA > > > >>> > > > >>> Office: 972-729-4983 (SIP) > > > >>> VNET: 772-4983 (SIP) > > > >>> > > > >>> Have you disconnected the PBX? > > > >>> > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>> From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] = On > > > >>> Behalf Of Hearty, John > > > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:46 AM > > > >>> To: sipping@ietf.org; jfm@cablelabs.com > > > >>> Subject: [Sipping] Is realtimefax draft dead? > > > >>> > > > >>> I posted this message a couple of weeks ago with no > > reply. Since > > > > then > > > >>> there have been other messages related to this draft, but > > > no answers > > > >>> regarding getting updates to the draft. I have seen no = response > > > > from > > > >>> the authors, and Jieying Li's email address bounced. I > > > feel this is > > > >>> an important document to get updated, as there is very > > little else > > > >>> available describing T.38 interop with SIP, something > > > more and more > > > >>> customers are asking for. > > > >>> > > > >>> John Hearty > > > >>> Level3 > > > >>> > > > >>>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>>> From: sipping-admin@ietf.org > > > >> [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf > > > >> Of > > > >>> Hearty, John > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 4:37 PM > > > >>> To: sipping@ietf.org; jieying@voxnetworks.com; = jfm@cablelabs.com > > > >>> Subject: [Sipping] realtimefax draft > > > >>> > > > >>> I see that this draft is expired. Is a new one due > > out? Also, I > > > > see > > > >>> that it implies how the negotiation of t38 attributes > > is done, but > > > >> there > > > >>> is nowhere in this or any other document I am aware of > > > that clearly > > > >>> describes the offer/answer model for t38 attribute > > > negotiation. Can > > > >>> this be added to this draft? > > > >>> > > > >>> John Hearty > > > >>> Level3 > > > >>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> Sipping mailing list > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > > > >>> This list > > > is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use > > > >>> sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on > > current sip Use > > > >>> sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Sipping mailing list > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > > > >> This list > > > is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use > > > >> sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on > > current sip Use > > > >> sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Sipping mailing list > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > > > >> This list > > > is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use > > > >> sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on > > current sip Use > > > >> sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 15 07:01:44 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA24653 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9jPA-00061K-Ha for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:01:24 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9FB1OEb023136 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:01:24 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9jPA-000615-9z for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:01:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA24641 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:01:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9jP5-0002ts-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:01:19 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9jP5-0002tp-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:01:19 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9jOp-0005zV-F0; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:01:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9jOQ-0005yD-Fj for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:00:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA24627 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:00:27 -0400 (EDT) From: hisham.khartabil@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9jOM-0002tR-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:00:34 -0400 Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com ([131.228.20.21]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9jOL-0002tI-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:00:33 -0400 Received: from esvir05nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir05nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.37]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id h9FB0Xd00838 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:00:33 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from esebh003.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir05nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:00:32 +0300 Received: from esebe019.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.58]) by esebh003.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:00:31 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:00:31 +0300 Message-ID: <2038BCC78B1AD641891A0D1AE133DBB701797282@esebe019.ntc.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: Via branch in draft-ietf-sipping-basic-call-flows-02.txt Thread-Index: AcOTC4zxjkPepkmWQNO/q9MaufUftg== To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2003 11:00:32.0121 (UTC) FILETIME=[8D4F3E90:01C3930B] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Sipping] Via branch in draft-ietf-sipping-basic-call-flows-02.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the examples, whenever there is a 401 response to a REGISTER, the = second REGISTER responding to the challenge contains a via-branch = parameter equal to that of the original REGISTER. This is a mistake, the = branch should be unique for every transaction. Regards, Hisham _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 15 11:33:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04984 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:33:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9neF-0005do-4a for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:33:15 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9FFXF2M021678 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:33:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9neF-0005dZ-17 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:33:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04960 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9neD-00060w-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:33:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9neD-00060s-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:33:13 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9ne1-0005cJ-RH; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:33:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9ndN-0005c0-Oa for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:32:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04953 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9ndM-00060l-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:32:20 -0400 Received: from pmesmtp01.wcom.com ([199.249.20.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9ndL-00060O-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:32:19 -0400 Received: from pmismtp01.wcomnet.com ([166.38.62.36]) by firewall.wcom.com (Iplanet MTA 5.2) with ESMTP id <0HMT00D5L1RX32@firewall.wcom.com> for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:31:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pmismtp01.wcomnet.com by pmismtp01.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with SMTP id <0HMT00H011PGS4@pmismtp01.wcomnet.com>; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:31:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from xs578v3521.mci.com ([166.50.112.227]) by pmismtp01.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HMT00GHR1QSZ0@pmismtp01.wcomnet.com>; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:30:29 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:30:28 -0500 From: Alan Johnston Subject: Re: [Sipping] Via branch in draft-ietf-sipping-basic-call-flows-02.txt In-reply-to: <2038BCC78B1AD641891A0D1AE133DBB701797282@esebe019.ntc.noki a.com> X-Sender: Alan.Johnston@pop.mcit.com To: hisham.khartabil@nokia.com, sipping@ietf.org Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031015102247.02cd0e38@pop.mcit.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hirsham, You are correct - this will be fixed in flows 2.1 and 2.5. The rest should be correct. Thanks, Alan Johnston MCI sip:alan@sipstation.com At 02:00 PM 10/15/2003 +0300, hisham.khartabil@nokia.com wrote: >In the examples, whenever there is a 401 response to a REGISTER, the >second REGISTER responding to the challenge contains a via-branch >parameter equal to that of the original REGISTER. This is a mistake, the >branch should be unique for every transaction. > >Regards, >Hisham > >_______________________________________________ >Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping >This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP >Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip >Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 15 11:47:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05657 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9nrh-0007Mp-9X for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9FFl9kZ028313 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9nrh-0007Ma-5p for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05629 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9nrf-0006Fh-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9nrf-0006Fe-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9nra-0007Is-Lp; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:47:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9nr2-0007Dm-LK for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:46:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05531 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:46:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9nr0-0006EC-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:46:26 -0400 Received: from mgw-x4.nokia.com ([131.228.20.27]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A9nqz-0006Db-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:46:25 -0400 Received: from esvir03nok.nokia.com (esvir03nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.35]) by mgw-x4.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id h9FFjtX25074 for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:45:55 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir03nok.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:45:55 +0300 Received: from bsebe001.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.19.160.13]) by daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:45:17 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:45:16 -0400 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" Thread-Index: AcOTM1eR2UuXmSz8T+61ApLtfMfZnw== To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2003 15:45:17.0887 (UTC) FILETIME=[55383CF0:01C39333] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, you can find a new I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP Event = Subscriptions" at=20 http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-trossen-sipping-ondemand-00.txt= =20 The I-D describes the problem and possible solution space for a = so-called 'on-demand access authorization for SIP event subscriptions'. = The objective of this document is to properly describe the particular = problem, define requirements for solutions to this problem, and outline = possible solutions. With this, the document intends to drive the = standardization of one method forward in order to provide a common = solution to the presented problem.=20 Please feel free to comment on the I-D. Regards, Dirk _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 09:31:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA02494 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA8Dn-0002O6-Fy for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:19 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GDVJsn009168 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:19 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA8Dn-0002Nh-5C for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA02446 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA8Dl-0004sE-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA8Dk-0004sA-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA8DX-0002Du-Qk; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A93pl-0005S3-QA for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:38:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA08347; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:37:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A93pj-0003UX-00; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:38:03 -0400 Received: from mail4.telekom.de ([195.243.210.197]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A93pi-0003TR-00; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:38:02 -0400 Received: from g8pbr.blf01.telekom.de by mail2.dmz.telekom.de with ESMTP; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:37:14 +0200 Received: by G8PBR.blf01.telekom.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <4ZRHWLV6>; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:37:22 +0200 Message-Id: <953B9B08F98DD61183F8000347AE660102862C5B@G8PPV.blf01.telekom.de> From: "Jesske, R" To: sip@ietf.org, sipping@ietf.org Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:37:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Sipping] WG: draft-mahy-iptel-cpc-00 Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello In Absense of any oppinion within the IPTEL WG I would like to ask the = SIP/SIPPING Group if there is any oppinion about this issue? Best Regards Roland -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jesske, Roland=20 Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Oktober 2003 13:31 An: iptel@ietf.org Cc: Alexeitsev, Denis; P=F6tzl, Joachim; Tolksdorf, Christian; = Sch=FCtte, Wolfgang; Pinker, Gerold; Benz, Robert Betreff: draft-mahy-iptel-cpc-00=20 Dear all, With regard to the draft draft-mahy-iptel-cpc-00 are there any = activities to extend the tel URI with the cpc parameter? If yes where I can find more information? If no what is needed to put = this forward as an issue. I'm also looking on interworking the Closed User Group PSTN/ISDN = Supplementary Service with SIP. To make this service also available = within SIP a extension with the regarding ISUP indications (Closed user = group interlock code and Closed user group call indicator) are needed. As they have the same character as the CPC I'm wondering if some body = had some thoughts on an extension of the tel URI with such kind of = parameters to make the CUG Service also in SIP available. Best Regards Roland Jesske Deutsche Telekom AG T Com Zentrale Roland Jesske, T38-12 Section T38; Signalling, Gateways and Switching Systems=20 Am Kavalleriesand 3, 64295 Darmstadt, Germany Phone: +49 6151 83-5940=20 Fax: +49 6151 83-4577=20 email: r.jesske@t-com.net _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 09:31:41 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA02509 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA8Dn-0002Nu-8x for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:19 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GDVJIK009154 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:19 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA8Dn-0002NZ-0R for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA02443 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA8Dl-0004sH-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA8Dk-0004sB-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA8Da-0002La-9P; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:31:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA2q3-0005j1-LA for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:46:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA23598; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA2q0-0001mZ-00; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:46:24 -0400 Received: from mail4.telekom.de ([195.243.210.197]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA2q0-0001mJ-00; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:46:24 -0400 Received: from g8pbr.blf01.telekom.de by mail2.dmz.telekom.de with ESMTP; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:45:52 +0200 Received: by G8PBR.blf01.telekom.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <4ZRH6GBK>; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:45:52 +0200 Message-Id: <953B9B08F98DD61183F8000347AE660102862C6C@G8PPV.blf01.telekom.de> From: "Jesske, R" To: sip@ietf.org, sipping@ietf.org Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:45:52 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Sipping] WG: draft-mahy-iptel-cpc-00 Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In absence of opinions within the IPTEL group I would like to ask if = the SIP/SIPPING group has any? Best Regards Roland -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jesske, Roland=20 Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Oktober 2003 13:31 An: iptel@ietf.org Cc: Alexeitsev, Denis; P=F6tzl, Joachim; Tolksdorf, Christian; = Sch=FCtte, Wolfgang; Pinker, Gerold; Benz, Robert Betreff: draft-mahy-iptel-cpc-00=20 Dear all, With regard to the draft draft-mahy-iptel-cpc-00 are there any = activities to extend the tel URI with the cpc parameter? If yes where I can find more information? If no what is needed to put = this forward as an issue. I'm also looking on interworking the Closed User Group PSTN/ISDN = Supplementary Service with SIP. To make this service also available = within SIP a extension with the regarding ISUP indications (Closed user = group interlock code and Closed user group call indicator) are needed. As they have the same character as the CPC I'm wondering if some body = had some thoughts on an extension of the tel URI with such kind of = parameters to make the CUG Service also in SIP available. Best Regards Roland Jesske Deutsche Telekom AG T Com Zentrale Roland Jesske, T38-12 Section T38; Signalling, Gateways and Switching Systems=20 Am Kavalleriesand 3, 64295 Darmstadt, Germany Phone: +49 6151 83-5940=20 Fax: +49 6151 83-4577=20 email: r.jesske@t-com.net _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 10:35:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05437 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:35:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9Dj-0005BG-VJ for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:35:20 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GEZJqo019913 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:35:19 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9Dj-0005B6-Rb for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:35:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05426 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:35:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9Dg-0005Sv-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:35:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9Dg-0005Ss-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:35:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9DS-00059W-12; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:35:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9Cj-00058R-HH for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:34:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05411 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:34:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9Ch-0005Sf-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:34:15 -0400 Received: from pmesmtp01.wcom.com ([199.249.20.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9Cg-0005Rj-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:34:14 -0400 Received: from dgismtp04.wcomnet.com ([166.38.58.144]) by firewall.wcom.com (Iplanet MTA 5.2) with ESMTP id <0HMU00ACRTP4DB@firewall.wcom.com> for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:31:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dgismtp04.wcomnet.com by dgismtp04.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with SMTP id <0HMU00A01TOS2A@dgismtp04.wcomnet.com>; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:31:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from hsinnreich2 ([166.50.96.27]) by dgismtp04.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HMU007O0TMZCQ@dgismtp04.wcomnet.com>; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:30:36 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:30:36 -0500 From: Henry Sinnreich Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" In-reply-to: To: Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com, sipping@ietf.org Message-id: <0HMU007O1TN0CQ@dgismtp04.wcomnet.com> Organization: WorldCom, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5329 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thread-index: AcOTM1eR2UuXmSz8T+61ApLtfMfZnwAvU4rg Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder if the term "on demand" may be commercially protected, since there are quite a few trade marked products out there. See for example http://www.ibm.com/us/ and how many "on demand" product names will be revealed by a search. Or is there no naming conflict here? Thanks, Henry Henry Sinnreich MCI 400 International Parkway Richardson, Texas 75081 USA Have you disconnected the PBX? -----Original Message----- From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 10:45 AM To: sipping@ietf.org Subject: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" Hi all, you can find a new I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP Event Subscriptions" at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-trossen-sipping-ondemand-00.txt The I-D describes the problem and possible solution space for a so-called 'on-demand access authorization for SIP event subscriptions'. The objective of this document is to properly describe the particular problem, define requirements for solutions to this problem, and outline possible solutions. With this, the document intends to drive the standardization of one method forward in order to provide a common solution to the presented problem. Please feel free to comment on the I-D. Regards, Dirk _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 10:42:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05667 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9KG-0005oH-3E for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:42:04 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GEg4kx022330 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:42:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9KF-0005o5-SA for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:42:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05642 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:41:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9KD-0005WB-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:42:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9KD-0005W8-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:42:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9KD-0005mN-P2; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:42:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9Jp-0005l7-9d for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:41:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05635 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:41:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9Jm-0005Vt-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:41:34 -0400 Received: from mgw-x4.nokia.com ([131.228.20.27]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9Jl-0005Vq-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:41:34 -0400 Received: from esvir03nok.nokia.com (esvir03nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.35]) by mgw-x4.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id h9GEfTX15394 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:41:29 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir03nok.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:41:29 +0300 Received: from bsebe001.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.19.160.13]) by daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:41:15 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:41:12 -0400 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" Thread-Index: AcOTM1eR2UuXmSz8T+61ApLtfMfZnwAvU4rgAACytIA= To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2003 14:41:15.0941 (UTC) FILETIME=[8DA78D50:01C393F3] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Henry, would it comply IETF policy to add "(TM)" to the title? Thanks, Dirk >-----Original Message----- >From: ext Henry Sinnreich [mailto:Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com] >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 10:31 AM >To: Trossen Dirk (NRC/Boston); sipping@ietf.org >Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for >SIP EVent Subscriptions" > > >I wonder if the term "on demand" may be commercially=20 >protected, since there >are quite a few trade marked products out there. See for example >http://www.ibm.com/us/ and how many "on demand" product names will be >revealed by a search. Or is there no naming conflict here? > >Thanks, Henry > >Henry Sinnreich > >MCI >400 International Parkway >Richardson, Texas 75081 >USA > >Have you disconnected the PBX? > >-----Original Message----- >From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org]=20 >On Behalf Of >Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com >Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 10:45 AM >To: sipping@ietf.org >Subject: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization=20 >for SIP EVent >Subscriptions" > >Hi all, > >you can find a new I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP Event >Subscriptions" at=20 >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-trossen-sipping-ondem and-00.txt=20 The I-D describes the problem and possible solution space for a = so-called 'on-demand access authorization for SIP event subscriptions'. The = objective of this document is to properly describe the particular problem, define requirements for solutions to this problem, and outline possible = solutions. With this, the document intends to drive the standardization of one = method forward in order to provide a common solution to the presented problem.=20 Please feel free to comment on the I-D. Regards, Dirk _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 11:30:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07068 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:30:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAA4q-000874-8P for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:30:12 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GFUCok031183 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:30:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAA4p-00086s-Sr for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:30:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07051 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA4p-0005xH-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:30:11 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA4o-0005xE-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:30:10 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAA4g-00085Q-Ap; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:30:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAA48-00084b-86 for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:29:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07027 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA47-0005wk-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:29:27 -0400 Received: from pmesmtp01.wcom.com ([199.249.20.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA46-0005wV-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:29:26 -0400 Received: from dgismtp04.wcomnet.com ([166.38.58.144]) by firewall.wcom.com (Iplanet MTA 5.2) with ESMTP id <0HMU00455W7N1K@firewall.wcom.com> for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:26:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dgismtp04.wcomnet.com by dgismtp04.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with SMTP id <0HMU00J01W7LRQ@dgismtp04.wcomnet.com>; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:26:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from hsinnreich2 ([166.50.96.27]) by dgismtp04.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HMU00IC8W7KQS@dgismtp04.wcomnet.com>; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:26:09 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:26:08 -0500 From: Henry Sinnreich Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" In-reply-to: To: Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com, Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com, sipping@ietf.org Message-id: <0HMU00ICBW7LQS@dgismtp04.wcomnet.com> Organization: WorldCom, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5329 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thread-index: AcOTM1eR2UuXmSz8T+61ApLtfMfZnwAvU4rgAACytIAAAYVUgA== Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We need here some legal advice from the IESG, I believe. Henry -----Original Message----- From: Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com [mailto:Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com] Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:41 AM To: Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com; sipping@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" Hi Henry, would it comply IETF policy to add "(TM)" to the title? Thanks, Dirk >-----Original Message----- >From: ext Henry Sinnreich [mailto:Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com] >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 10:31 AM >To: Trossen Dirk (NRC/Boston); sipping@ietf.org >Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for >SIP EVent Subscriptions" > > >I wonder if the term "on demand" may be commercially >protected, since there >are quite a few trade marked products out there. See for example >http://www.ibm.com/us/ and how many "on demand" product names will be >revealed by a search. Or is there no naming conflict here? > >Thanks, Henry > >Henry Sinnreich > >MCI >400 International Parkway >Richardson, Texas 75081 >USA > >Have you disconnected the PBX? > >-----Original Message----- >From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] >On Behalf Of >Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com >Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 10:45 AM >To: sipping@ietf.org >Subject: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization >for SIP EVent >Subscriptions" > >Hi all, > >you can find a new I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP Event >Subscriptions" at >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-trossen-sipping-ondem and-00.txt The I-D describes the problem and possible solution space for a so-called 'on-demand access authorization for SIP event subscriptions'. The objective of this document is to properly describe the particular problem, define requirements for solutions to this problem, and outline possible solutions. With this, the document intends to drive the standardization of one method forward in order to provide a common solution to the presented problem. Please feel free to comment on the I-D. Regards, Dirk _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 11:36:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07392 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:36:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAAAh-0000KQ-Vh for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:36:15 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GFaF3B001256 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:36:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAAAh-0000KB-Se for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:36:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07363 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:36:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAAAg-00061n-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:36:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAAAg-00061j-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:36:14 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAAAT-0000Gl-DC; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:36:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAA9t-0000FI-A0 for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:35:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07333 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:35:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA9s-000614-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:35:24 -0400 Received: from mgw-x4.nokia.com ([131.228.20.27]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAA9r-000610-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:35:23 -0400 Received: from esvir03nok.nokia.com (esvir03nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.35]) by mgw-x4.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id h9GFZMX15711 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:35:22 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir03nok.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:35:22 +0300 Received: from bsebe001.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.19.160.13]) by daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:35:19 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:35:17 -0400 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" Thread-Index: AcOTM1eR2UuXmSz8T+61ApLtfMfZnwAvU4rgAACytIAAAYVUgAAAWhdg To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2003 15:35:19.0221 (UTC) FILETIME=[1ACCCE50:01C393FB] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm fine with changing the title to "Spontaneous", if that would solve = it. Dirk >-----Original Message----- >From: ext Henry Sinnreich [mailto:Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com] >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 11:26 AM >To: Trossen Dirk (NRC/Boston); Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com;=20 >sipping@ietf.org >Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for >SIP EVent Subscriptions" > > >We need here some legal advice from the IESG, I believe. > >Henry > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com [mailto:Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com]=20 >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:41 AM >To: Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com; sipping@ietf.org >Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access=20 >Authorization for SIP >EVent Subscriptions" > >Hi Henry, > >would it comply IETF policy to add "(TM)" to the title? > >Thanks, > >Dirk > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: ext Henry Sinnreich [mailto:Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com] >>Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 10:31 AM >>To: Trossen Dirk (NRC/Boston); sipping@ietf.org >>Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for >>SIP EVent Subscriptions" >> >> >>I wonder if the term "on demand" may be commercially=20 >>protected, since there >>are quite a few trade marked products out there. See for example >>http://www.ibm.com/us/ and how many "on demand" product names will be >>revealed by a search. Or is there no naming conflict here? >> >>Thanks, Henry >> >>Henry Sinnreich >> >>MCI >>400 International Parkway >>Richardson, Texas 75081 >>USA >> >>Have you disconnected the PBX? >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org]=20 >>On Behalf Of >>Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com >>Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 10:45 AM >>To: sipping@ietf.org >>Subject: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization=20 >>for SIP EVent >>Subscriptions" >> >>Hi all, >> >>you can find a new I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for=20 >SIP Event >>Subscriptions" at=20 >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-trossen-sipping-ondem >and-00.txt=20 > >The I-D describes the problem and possible solution space for=20 >a so-called >'on-demand access authorization for SIP event subscriptions'.=20 >The objective >of this document is to properly describe the particular problem, define >requirements for solutions to this problem, and outline=20 >possible solutions. >With this, the document intends to drive the standardization=20 >of one method >forward in order to provide a common solution to the presented=20 >problem.=20 > >Please feel free to comment on the I-D. > >Regards, > >Dirk > >_______________________________________________ >Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping >This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP >Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip >Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 11:43:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07578 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAAHK-0000x0-9z for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:43:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GFh6Dd003648 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:43:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAAHK-0000wl-5d for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:43:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07557 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:42:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAAHJ-00064k-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:43:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAAHI-00064h-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:43:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAAHE-0000ut-MP; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:43:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAAGZ-0000tw-2W for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:42:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07518 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:42:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAAGX-00064A-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:42:17 -0400 Received: from opus.cs.columbia.edu ([128.59.20.100]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAAGW-000642-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:42:16 -0400 Received: from cs.columbia.edu (path.cs.columbia.edu [128.59.19.143]) (authenticated bits=0) by opus.cs.columbia.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GFgBAL027105 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F8EBC53.7090607@cs.columbia.edu> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:42:11 -0400 From: Henning Schulzrinne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030924 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henry Sinnreich CC: Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com, sipping@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" References: <0HMU00ICBW7LQS@dgismtp04.wcomnet.com> In-Reply-To: <0HMU00ICBW7LQS@dgismtp04.wcomnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henry Sinnreich wrote: > We need here some legal advice from the IESG, I believe. > Before we busy lawyers, it might be worthwhile to discuss whether this is really a term we want to use (let alone whether somebody could trademark a term that's been in common English usage for centuries.) _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 12:16:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08610 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:16:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAAnK-0003Ac-6h for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:16:12 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GGGAWG012180 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:16:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAAnK-0003AN-2q for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:16:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08587 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:15:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAAnI-0006Lg-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:16:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAAnI-0006Ld-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:16:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAAnB-00037k-29; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:16:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAAmb-00036P-Cj for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:15:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08556 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:15:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAAma-0006Kv-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:15:24 -0400 Received: from hoemail1.lucent.com ([192.11.226.161] helo=hoemail1.firewall.lucent.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAAmZ-0006KI-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:15:23 -0400 Received: from uk0006exch001h.wins.lucent.com (h135-86-145-57.lucent.com [135.86.145.57]) by hoemail1.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h9GGEj405623 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:14:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: by uk0006exch001h.uk.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id <4M3WPC33>; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:14:44 +0100 Message-ID: <475FF955A05DD411980D00508B6D5FB00439EEAE@en0033exch001u.uk.lucent.com> From: "Drage, Keith (Keith)" To: "'Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com'" , Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com, sipping@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:14:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , It doesn't mean the same thing. Are we now talking about a "push" type service rather than one the user invokes. Let's just leave it as it is, unless someone can talk to a specific issue, rather than some rather general comments that bar half the language (Do we allow any authors to be called "Macdonald") regards Keith > -----Original Message----- > From: Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com [mailto:Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com] > Sent: 16 October 2003 16:35 > To: Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com; sipping@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for > SIP EVent Subscriptions" > > > I'm fine with changing the title to "Spontaneous", if that > would solve it. > > Dirk > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: ext Henry Sinnreich [mailto:Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com] > >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 11:26 AM > >To: Trossen Dirk (NRC/Boston); Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com; > >sipping@ietf.org > >Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for > >SIP EVent Subscriptions" > > > > > >We need here some legal advice from the IESG, I believe. > > > >Henry > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com [mailto:Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com] > >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:41 AM > >To: Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com; sipping@ietf.org > >Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access > >Authorization for SIP > >EVent Subscriptions" > > > >Hi Henry, > > > >would it comply IETF policy to add "(TM)" to the title? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Dirk > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: ext Henry Sinnreich [mailto:Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com] > >>Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 10:31 AM > >>To: Trossen Dirk (NRC/Boston); sipping@ietf.org > >>Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access > Authorization for > >>SIP EVent Subscriptions" > >> > >> > >>I wonder if the term "on demand" may be commercially > >>protected, since there > >>are quite a few trade marked products out there. See for example > >>http://www.ibm.com/us/ and how many "on demand" product > names will be > >>revealed by a search. Or is there no naming conflict here? > >> > >>Thanks, Henry > >> > >>Henry Sinnreich > >> > >>MCI > >>400 International Parkway > >>Richardson, Texas 75081 > >>USA > >> > >>Have you disconnected the PBX? > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] > >>On Behalf Of > >>Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com > >>Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 10:45 AM > >>To: sipping@ietf.org > >>Subject: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization > >>for SIP EVent > >>Subscriptions" > >> > >>Hi all, > >> > >>you can find a new I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for > >SIP Event > >>Subscriptions" at > >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-trossen-sipping-ondem > >and-00.txt > > > >The I-D describes the problem and possible solution space for > >a so-called > >'on-demand access authorization for SIP event subscriptions'. > >The objective > >of this document is to properly describe the particular > problem, define > >requirements for solutions to this problem, and outline > >possible solutions. > >With this, the document intends to drive the standardization > >of one method > >forward in order to provide a common solution to the presented > >problem. > > > >Please feel free to comment on the I-D. > > > >Regards, > > > >Dirk > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > >This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > >Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > >Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 12:35:03 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10051 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAB5C-0004GY-VL for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:34:43 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GGYcV9016392 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:34:38 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAB5C-0004GJ-Nz for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:34:38 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10036 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:34:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAB4b-00046p-6r; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:34:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAB4Y-00046c-Gq for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:33:59 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10023 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:33:47 -0400 (EDT) From: aki.niemi@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAB4X-0006lG-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:33:57 -0400 Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com ([131.228.20.21]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAB4W-0006l6-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:33:56 -0400 Received: from esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir01nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.33]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id h9GGXsd13518 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:33:54 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from esebh004.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:33:54 +0300 Received: from esebe013.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.52]) by esebh004.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6139); Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:33:53 +0300 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:33:52 +0300 Message-ID: <98C7D2E5BCD2374C9AAE0BCD2E9C1DD9027D9092@esebe013.ntc.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" Thread-Index: AcOUAQ4p/nMha9Y/Q729jkMwe/FDIgAAYxtg To: , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2003 16:33:53.0388 (UTC) FILETIME=[496822C0:01C39403] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Isn't this basically the same concept as reactive authorization?=20 if it is, then it should probably use the same term to avoid confusion. Regards, Aki > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Drage, Keith (Keith) [mailto:drage@lucent.com] > Sent: 16 October, 2003 19:15 > To: Trossen Dirk (NRC/Boston); Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com;=20 > sipping@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for > SIP EVent Subscriptions" >=20 >=20 > It doesn't mean the same thing. Are we now talking about a=20 > "push" type service rather than one the user invokes. >=20 > Let's just leave it as it is, unless someone can talk to a=20 > specific issue, rather than some rather general comments=20 > that bar half the language (Do we allow any authors to be=20 > called "Macdonald") >=20 > regards >=20 > Keith >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com [mailto:Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com] > > Sent: 16 October 2003 16:35 > > To: Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com; sipping@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access=20 > Authorization for > > SIP EVent Subscriptions" > >=20 > >=20 > > I'm fine with changing the title to "Spontaneous", if that=20 > > would solve it. > >=20 > > Dirk > >=20 > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: ext Henry Sinnreich [mailto:Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com] > > >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 11:26 AM > > >To: Trossen Dirk (NRC/Boston); Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com;=20 > > >sipping@ietf.org > > >Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access=20 > Authorization for > > >SIP EVent Subscriptions" > > > > > > > > >We need here some legal advice from the IESG, I believe. > > > > > >Henry > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com [mailto:Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com]=20 > > >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:41 AM > > >To: Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com; sipping@ietf.org > > >Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access=20 > > >Authorization for SIP > > >EVent Subscriptions" > > > > > >Hi Henry, > > > > > >would it comply IETF policy to add "(TM)" to the title? > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Dirk > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > > >>From: ext Henry Sinnreich [mailto:Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com] > > >>Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 10:31 AM > > >>To: Trossen Dirk (NRC/Boston); sipping@ietf.org > > >>Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access=20 > > Authorization for > > >>SIP EVent Subscriptions" > > >> > > >> > > >>I wonder if the term "on demand" may be commercially=20 > > >>protected, since there > > >>are quite a few trade marked products out there. See for example > > >>http://www.ibm.com/us/ and how many "on demand" product=20 > > names will be > > >>revealed by a search. Or is there no naming conflict here? > > >> > > >>Thanks, Henry > > >> > > >>Henry Sinnreich > > >> > > >>MCI > > >>400 International Parkway > > >>Richardson, Texas 75081 > > >>USA > > >> > > >>Have you disconnected the PBX? > > >> > > >>-----Original Message----- > > >>From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org]=20 > > >>On Behalf Of > > >>Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com > > >>Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 10:45 AM > > >>To: sipping@ietf.org > > >>Subject: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization=20 > > >>for SIP EVent > > >>Subscriptions" > > >> > > >>Hi all, > > >> > > >>you can find a new I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for=20 > > >SIP Event > > >>Subscriptions" at=20 > > >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-trossen-sipping-ondem > > >and-00.txt=20 > > > > > >The I-D describes the problem and possible solution space for=20 > > >a so-called > > >'on-demand access authorization for SIP event subscriptions'.=20 > > >The objective > > >of this document is to properly describe the particular=20 > > problem, define > > >requirements for solutions to this problem, and outline=20 > > >possible solutions. > > >With this, the document intends to drive the standardization=20 > > >of one method > > >forward in order to provide a common solution to the presented=20 > > >problem.=20 > > > > > >Please feel free to comment on the I-D. > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > >Dirk > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Sipping mailing list =20 https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > >This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > >Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > >Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > > > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP >=20 _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 12:47:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10497 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AABHN-0004so-TI for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:47:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GGlDQn018767 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:47:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AABHN-0004sc-Nb for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:47:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10472 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AABHM-0006uZ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:47:12 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AABHL-0006uW-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:47:11 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AABHC-0004rF-Jf; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:47:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AABGV-0004qW-PB for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:46:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10451 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:46:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AABGU-0006tn-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:46:18 -0400 Received: from willow.neustar.com ([209.173.53.84]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AABGT-0006tD-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:46:17 -0400 Received: from chiimc01.npac.com (chiimc01.il.neustar.com [10.32.90.4]) by willow.neustar.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9GGjhW03749; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:45:43 GMT Received: by CHIIMC01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <4RGYK1YF>; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:46:33 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Peterson, Jon" To: "'Henry Sinnreich'" , Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com, sipping@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for SIP EVent Subscriptions" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:46:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , See, for example, title of RFC2645 and RFC3561. Jon Peterson NeuStar, Inc. > -----Original Message----- > From: Henry Sinnreich [mailto:Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:26 AM > To: Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com; Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com; sipping@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for > SIP EVent Subscriptions" > > > We need here some legal advice from the IESG, I believe. > > Henry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com [mailto:Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 9:41 AM > To: Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com; sipping@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access > Authorization for SIP > EVent Subscriptions" > > Hi Henry, > > would it comply IETF policy to add "(TM)" to the title? > > Thanks, > > Dirk > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: ext Henry Sinnreich [mailto:Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com] > >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 10:31 AM > >To: Trossen Dirk (NRC/Boston); sipping@ietf.org > >Subject: RE: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization for > >SIP EVent Subscriptions" > > > > > >I wonder if the term "on demand" may be commercially > >protected, since there > >are quite a few trade marked products out there. See for example > >http://www.ibm.com/us/ and how many "on demand" product > names will be > >revealed by a search. Or is there no naming conflict here? > > > >Thanks, Henry > > > >Henry Sinnreich > > > >MCI > >400 International Parkway > >Richardson, Texas 75081 > >USA > > > >Have you disconnected the PBX? > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] > >On Behalf Of > >Dirk.Trossen@nokia.com > >Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 10:45 AM > >To: sipping@ietf.org > >Subject: [Sipping] New I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization > >for SIP EVent > >Subscriptions" > > > >Hi all, > > > >you can find a new I-D on "On-Demand Access Authorization > for SIP Event > >Subscriptions" at > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-trossen-sipping-ondem > and-00.txt > > The I-D describes the problem and possible solution space for > a so-called > 'on-demand access authorization for SIP event subscriptions'. > The objective > of this document is to properly describe the particular > problem, define > requirements for solutions to this problem, and outline > possible solutions. > With this, the document intends to drive the standardization > of one method > forward in order to provide a common solution to the > presented problem. > > Please feel free to comment on the I-D. > > Regards, > > Dirk > > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > > > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 15:32:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19363 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AADr7-0005R7-7R for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:32:17 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GJWHUk020891 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:32:17 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AADr7-0005Qs-2a for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:32:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19294 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AADr5-000157-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:32:15 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AADr5-000154-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:32:15 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AADqs-0005OL-2Z; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:32:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AADpy-0005L4-27 for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:31:06 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19176; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:30:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310161930.PAA19176@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: sipping@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:30:55 -0400 Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-qsig2sip-03.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Proposal Investigation Working Group of the IETF. Title : Interworking between SIP and QSIG Author(s) : J. Elwell, et. al. Filename : draft-ietf-sipping-qsig2sip-03.txt Pages : 59 Date : 2003-10-16 This document specifies interworking between the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) and QSIG within corporate telecommunication networks (also known as enterprise networks). SIP is an Internet application- layer control (signalling) protocol for creating, modifying, and terminating sessions with one or more participants. These sessions include, in particular, telephone calls. QSIG is a signalling protocol for creating, modifying and terminating circuit-switched calls, in particular telephone calls, within Private Integrated Services Networks (PISNs). QSIG is specified in a number of ECMA Standards and published also as ISO/IEC standards. network and a participant in the QSIG network. Such calls are supported by gateways that perform interworking between SIP and QSIG. This document is a product of the authors' activities in ECMA (www.ecma-international.org) on interoperability of QSIG with IP networks. An earlier version is published as Standard ECMA-339. ECMA has made this work available to the IETF as the basis for publishing an RFC. As the support of telephony within corporate networks evolves from circuit-switched technology to Internet technology, the two technologies will co-exist in many networks for a period, perhaps several years. Therefore there is a need to be able to establish, modify and terminate sessions involving a participant in the SIP A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-qsig2sip-03.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sipping-qsig2sip-03.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-qsig2sip-03.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-16143816.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-qsig2sip-03.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-sipping-qsig2sip-03.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-16143816.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 16 15:45:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19760 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:45:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAE3b-0006WK-39 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:45:13 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9GJjBZB025061 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:45:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAE3a-0006W8-SH for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:45:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19721 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:45:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAE3Z-0001Cg-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:45:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAE3Y-0001Cd-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:45:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAE3S-0006V4-KX; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:45:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAE37-0006Ue-Nu for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:44:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19702 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:44:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAE36-0001CJ-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:44:40 -0400 Received: from imr2.ericy.com ([198.24.6.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAE35-0001CF-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:44:39 -0400 Received: from eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se (eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.133.51]) by imr2.ericy.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9GJhoO8017691; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:43:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ericsson.com (EFO9N000L5C7100 [153.88.94.6]) by eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2656.59) id S8VDCZZP; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:43:07 -0500 Message-ID: <3F8EF4E9.6020806@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:43:37 +0300 X-Sybari-Trust: f10ebf1c 406a040f c001c63b 00000138 From: Gonzalo Camarillo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lueken Joachim CC: "'jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com'" , "'hgs@cs.columbia.edu'" , "'Jon.Peterson@Level3.com'" , "'sipping@ietf.org'" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] Re: PRACK vs. UPDATE in 3Pcc Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The answer is in page 10 of RFC 3262: "If the UAC receives a reliable provisional response with an offer (this would occur if the UAC sent an INVITE without an offer, in which case the first reliable provisional response will contain the offer), it MUST generate an answer in the PRACK." Gonzalo Lueken Joachim wrote: > Hi, > > In several flows of the 3PCC draft the sending of PRACK for one leg of the call depends on the reception of a message on the other leg of the call, e.g. in figure 8 the PRACK is sent to B once the 200 w/ answer2 is received from A. > > Why did you not consider to use UPDATE here. Thus PRACK is no longer of end-to-end relevance and acknowledges reception of responses related to only one SIP call leg. I thought this was the intention behind PRACK. Although we introduce two additional message it looks much cleaner to me. > > The flow in figure 8 would then look like this: > > A Controller B > | | | > |(1) INVITE offer1 | | > |no media | | > |<---------------------| | > | | | > | | | > | | | > | | | > | | | > |(2) 200 answer1 | | > |no media | | > |--------------------->| | > |(3) ACK | | > |<---------------------| | > | |(4) INVITE no SDP | > | |--------------------->| > | | | > | |(5) 183 offer2 | > | |<---------------------| > |(6) INVITE offer2' |(6a) PRACK | > |<---------------------|--------------------->| > |(7) 200 answer2' |(6c) 200 PRACK | > |--------------------->|<---------------------| > |(8) ACK | | > |<---------------------| | > | |(9) UPDATE answer2 | > | |--------------------->| > | |(10) 200 UPDATE | > | |<---------------------| > |(11) RTP | | > |.............................................| > | | | > | |(12) 200 OK | > | |<---------------------| > | |(13) ACK | > | |--------------------->| > > > Best regards / Mit freundlichen Gruessen > Joachim Lueken > > ---------------------------------------- > SIEMENS > Dept. ICN CP D NC B > Hofmannstr. 51, 81359 Munich, Germany > Tel: +49 89 722-63251 > Fax: +49 89 722-28770 > eMail: joachim.lueken@siemens.com > ---------------------------------------- > > > -- Gonzalo Camarillo Phone : +358 9 299 33 71 Oy L M Ericsson Ab Mobile: +358 40 702 35 35 Telecom R&D Fax : +358 9 299 30 52 FIN-02420 Jorvas Email : Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com Finland http://www.hut.fi/~gonzalo _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 03:06:49 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA21750 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAOgv-0003Ob-3V for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:06:29 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9H76Tkv013054 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:06:29 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAOgu-0003OT-HP for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:06:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA21747 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAOgq-0007Zt-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:06:24 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAOgp-0007Zq-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:06:23 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAOgV-0003Ma-F0; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:06:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAOgE-0003LH-3t for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:05:46 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA21712 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:05:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAOg9-0007ZE-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:05:41 -0400 Received: from imr2.ericy.com ([198.24.6.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAOg9-0007Yo-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:05:41 -0400 Received: from eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se (eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.133.51]) by imr2.ericy.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9H754O8027218; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:05:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ericsson.com (EFO9N000L5C7100.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.31.119]) by eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2656.59) id S8VD13KM; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:04:20 -0500 Message-ID: <3F8F949E.8060506@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:05:02 +0300 X-Sybari-Trust: 1f1f3f73 406a040f c001c63b 00000138 From: Gonzalo Camarillo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jmpolk@cisco.com CC: sipping@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt References: <200310101938.PAA15630@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <200310101938.PAA15630@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James, I guess the general issue here is creating a new name space (protocol element for Reason) for preemption stuff. *If* we do that, I would rather create a general name space and have numeric codes for things like network preemption or user agent preemption. So, rather than this syntax: Reason : preempted_Network Reason : preempted_UA I would use this one: Reason: preemption ;cause=1 ;text="Network Preemption" Reason: preemption ;cause=2 ;text="UA Preemption" We could even choose a more general name space than "preemption" and include things like loss of radio converage, for instance. Gonzalo Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : Extending the Session Initiation Protocol Reason > Header to account for Preemption Events > Author(s) : J. Polk > Filename : draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt > Pages : 14 > Date : 2003-10-10 > > This document proposes an extension to the Session Initiation > Protocol (SIP) Reason Header [1] to include in a BYE Method Request > [2] as a result of a session preemption event either at a user > agent (UA), or somewhere in the network using RSVP [3]. This > document does not attempt to address routers failing in the packet > path; but a deliberate event of tearing down a flow between UAs. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt > > To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to > ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username > "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, > type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > -- Gonzalo Camarillo Phone : +358 9 299 33 71 Oy L M Ericsson Ab Mobile: +358 40 702 35 35 Telecom R&D Fax : +358 9 299 30 52 FIN-02420 Jorvas Email : Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com Finland http://www.hut.fi/~gonzalo _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 06:52:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA27034 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AASDO-00057O-Nn for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:16 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9HAqEoQ019659 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AASDO-00056w-G1 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA27018 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AASDI-00020x-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AASDI-00020t-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AASDB-00054b-OX; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9lk-0007Mr-CJ for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:10:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06570 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9lh-0005mf-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:10:25 -0400 Received: from goliath.siemens.de ([192.35.17.28]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9lg-0005mZ-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:10:25 -0400 Received: from mail3.siemens.de (mail3.siemens.de [139.25.208.14]) by goliath.siemens.de (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id h9GFADh22198; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:10:14 +0200 (MEST) Received: from blues.mchh.siemens.de (blues.mchh.siemens.de [139.21.204.206]) by mail3.siemens.de (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id h9GFACT25063; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:10:12 +0200 (MEST) Received: from mchh275e.mchh.siemens.de (mchh275e.mchh.siemens.de [139.21.200.61]) by blues.mchh.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA25822; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:08:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by mchh275e.mchh.siemens.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <45NV4AN0>; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:09:19 +0200 Message-ID: From: Lueken Joachim To: "'jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com'" , "'Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com'" , "'hgs@cs.columbia.edu'" , "'Jon.Peterson@Level3.com'" Cc: "'sipping@ietf.org'" Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:09:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Subject: [Sipping] PRACK vs. UPDATE in 3Pcc Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi, In several flows of the 3PCC draft the sending of PRACK for one leg of the call depends on the reception of a message on the other leg of the call, e.g. in figure 8 the PRACK is sent to B once the 200 w/ answer2 is received from A. Why did you not consider to use UPDATE here. Thus PRACK is no longer of end-to-end relevance and acknowledges reception of responses related to only one SIP call leg. I thought this was the intention behind PRACK. Although we introduce two additional message it looks much cleaner to me. The flow in figure 8 would then look like this: A Controller B | | | |(1) INVITE offer1 | | |no media | | |<---------------------| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |(2) 200 answer1 | | |no media | | |--------------------->| | |(3) ACK | | |<---------------------| | | |(4) INVITE no SDP | | |--------------------->| | | | | |(5) 183 offer2 | | |<---------------------| |(6) INVITE offer2' |(6a) PRACK | |<---------------------|--------------------->| |(7) 200 answer2' |(6c) 200 PRACK | |--------------------->|<---------------------| |(8) ACK | | |<---------------------| | | |(9) UPDATE answer2 | | |--------------------->| | |(10) 200 UPDATE | | |<---------------------| |(11) RTP | | |.............................................| | | | | |(12) 200 OK | | |<---------------------| | |(13) ACK | | |--------------------->| Best regards / Mit freundlichen Gruessen Joachim Lueken ---------------------------------------- SIEMENS Dept. ICN CP D NC B Hofmannstr. 51, 81359 Munich, Germany Tel: +49 89 722-63251 Fax: +49 89 722-28770 eMail: joachim.lueken@siemens.com ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 07:42:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA27035 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AASDO-00057N-NN for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:16 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9HAqEpP019660 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AASDO-00056v-Ec for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA27016 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AASDI-000210-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AASDI-00020u-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AASDC-00054l-RK; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:52:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AA9zf-0007wa-PL for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:24:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06892 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9ze-0005t6-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:24:51 -0400 Received: from thoth.sbs.de ([192.35.17.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AA9ze-0005sf-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:24:50 -0400 Received: from mail2.siemens.de (mail2.siemens.de [139.25.208.11]) by thoth.sbs.de (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id h9GFOR705307; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:24:27 +0200 (MEST) Received: from moody.mchh.siemens.de (moody.mchh.siemens.de [139.21.205.85]) by mail2.siemens.de (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id h9GFOQZ25904; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:24:26 +0200 (MEST) Received: from mchh274e.mchh.siemens.de (mchh274e.mchh.siemens.de [139.21.200.84]) by moody.mchh.siemens.de (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA05903; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:24:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by mchh274e.mchh.siemens.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id <45N13HYN>; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:23:33 +0200 Message-ID: From: Lueken Joachim To: "'jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com'" , "'Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com'" , "'hgs@cs.columbia.edu'" , "'jon.peterson@neustar.biz'" Cc: "'sipping@ietf.org'" Subject: [Sipping] PRACK vs. UPDATE in 3PCC Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:23:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi, In several flows of the 3PCC draft the sending of PRACK for one leg of the call depends on the reception of a message on the other leg of the call, e.g. in figure 8 the PRACK is sent to B once the 200 w/ answer2 is received from A. Why did you not consider to use UPDATE here. Thus PRACK is no longer of end-to-end relevance and acknowledges reception of responses related to only one SIP call leg. I thought this was the intention behind PRACK. Although we introduce two additional message it looks much cleaner to me. The flow in figure 8 would then look like this: A Controller B | | | |(1) INVITE offer1 | | |no media | | |<---------------------| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |(2) 200 answer1 | | |no media | | |--------------------->| | |(3) ACK | | |<---------------------| | | |(4) INVITE no SDP | | |--------------------->| | | | | |(5) 183 offer2 | | |<---------------------| |(6) INVITE offer2' |(6a) PRACK | |<---------------------|--------------------->| |(7) 200 answer2' |(6c) 200 PRACK | |--------------------->|<---------------------| |(8) ACK | | |<---------------------| | | |(9) UPDATE answer2 | | |--------------------->| | |(10) 200 UPDATE | | |<---------------------| |(11) RTP | | |.............................................| | | | | |(12) 200 OK | | |<---------------------| | |(13) ACK | | |--------------------->| Best regards / Mit freundlichen Gruessen Joachim Lueken ---------------------------------------- SIEMENS Dept. ICN CP D NC B Hofmannstr. 51, 81359 Munich, Germany Tel: +49 89 722-63251 Fax: +49 89 722-28770 eMail: joachim.lueken@siemens.com ---------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 07:55:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA28792 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:55:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AATCK-000067-TF for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:55:12 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9HBtCOU000369 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:55:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AATCJ-00005q-C5 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:55:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA28787 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:55:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AATCI-0002d8-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:55:10 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AATCI-0002d5-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:55:10 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AATCA-0008Vd-It; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:55:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AATBG-0008Q1-PR for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:54:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA28705 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AATBF-0002c5-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:54:05 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AATBF-0002bY-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:54:05 -0400 Received: from [10.32.245.146] (stealth-10-32-245-146.cisco.com [10.32.245.146]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h9HBrUeu017585; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 04:53:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:53:29 -0400 From: "David R. Oran" To: Gonzalo Camarillo , jmpolk@cisco.com cc: sipping@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt Message-ID: <2432421.1066377209@[10.32.245.146]> In-Reply-To: <3F8F949E.8060506@ericsson.com> References: <200310101938.PAA15630@ietf.org> <3F8F949E.8060506@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.0b8 (Win32) X-PGP-Info: on X-public-key: on X-PGP-Version: PGP-8.02 X-PGP-Fingerprint: C156 C82D 0890 9EFD DB81 9824 8D66 84B6 54DD 2AE6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="==========916E13FC9BB1B6D87AF7==========" Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --==========916E13FC9BB1B6D87AF7========== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --On Friday, October 17, 2003 10:05 AM +0300 Gonzalo Camarillo=20 wrote: > James, > > I guess the general issue here is creating a new name space (protocol > element for Reason) for preemption stuff. *If* we do that, I would rather > create a general name space and have numeric codes for things like > network preemption or user agent preemption. > > So, rather than this syntax: > > Reason : preempted_Network > Reason : preempted_UA > > I would use this one: > > Reason: preemption ;cause=3D1 ;text=3D"Network Preemption" > Reason: preemption ;cause=3D2 ;text=3D"UA Preemption" > This does seem more flexible and extensible. > We could even choose a more general name space than "preemption" and > include things like loss of radio converage, for instance. > I'm not sure I buy into this example - loss of radio coverage is a whole=20 different class of reason - your call was not preempted by something else=20 in this case, unless in fact you know you're not getting signal because the = frequency/timeslot/codepoint was re-assigned out from under you. Dave. > Gonzalo > > > > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> >> >> Title : Extending the Session Initiation Protocol Reason >> Header to account for Preemption Events >> Author(s) : J. Polk >> Filename : draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt >> Pages : 14 >> Date : 2003-10-10 >> >> This document proposes an extension to the Session Initiation >> Protocol (SIP) Reason Header [1] to include in a BYE Method Request >> [2] as a result of a session preemption event either at a user >> agent (UA), or somewhere in the network using RSVP [3]. This >> document does not attempt to address routers failing in the packet >> path; but a deliberate event of tearing down a flow between UAs. >> >> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for >> -preemption-00.txt >> >> To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to >> ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the >> message. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the >> username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After >> logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then >> "get draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt". >> >> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >> >> >> Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >> >> Send a message to: >> mailserv@ietf.org. >> In the body type: >> "FILE >> /internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt >> ". >> >> NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in >> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this >> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" >> command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or >> a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers >> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with >> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split >> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on >> how to manipulate these messages. >> >> >> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> Internet-Draft. ------------------------ David R. Oran Cisco Systems 7 Ladyslipper Lane Acton, MA 01720 Office: +1 978 264 2048 VoIP: +1 408 571 4576 Email: oran@cisco.com --==========916E13FC9BB1B6D87AF7========== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: Mulberry PGP Plugin v3.0 Comment: processed by Mulberry PGP Plugin iQA/AwUBP4/YOo1mhLZU3SrmEQIcHwCcDq8zLasvq413qMMyHBOdUGJbcHwAniGr cjHnoFNTs42iH+qf5LW29mLa =h0Mq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==========916E13FC9BB1B6D87AF7==========-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 08:16:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA29374 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:16:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AATWc-0001AO-2p for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:16:12 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9HCGATn004478 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:16:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AATWb-0001A9-VI for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:16:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA29355 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:16:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AATWa-0002oK-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:16:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AATWa-0002oH-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:16:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AATWV-000191-M3; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:16:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AATWD-00017f-Em for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:15:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA29339 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:15:36 -0400 (EDT) From: dick.rr.knight@bt.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AATWC-0002o0-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:15:44 -0400 Received: from [217.32.164.139] (helo=i2kc05-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AATWB-0002no-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:15:43 -0400 Received: from i2km98-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net ([193.113.197.85]) by i2kc05-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:15:12 +0100 Received: from i2km35-ukdy.domain1.systemhost.net ([193.113.30.26]) by i2km98-ukbr.domain1.systemhost.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:15:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Sipping] [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt] Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:15:12 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Re: [Sipping] [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt] Thread-Index: AcOUqHHRzfQQIAB/EdiEcQBHQzMEOA== To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Oct 2003 12:15:12.0775 (UTC) FILETIME=[50D04970:01C394A8] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Comments on draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt, based on the = information sent to Tom about the UK emergency service (999). 1. Abstract: rather than "would be helpful" in the major finding, it = would be better to say: " The major finding from the point of view of = SIP standardization is it is essential in a number of scenarios (and = helpful for all) if a location header field could be added either by the = SIP phone or by a proxy to indicate the location of the phone in a = machine-readable way." The UK uses automated location information at a = call centre to determine the "local" emergency service, and the = emergency service uses the information to dispatch the emergency = response. 2. In section 2 (definitions), the definition provided of an ECC is USA = specific. Please add, after "(police, fire department, medical aid) the = words "either directly or by connection to a separate centre" - this = will cover both cases. 3. In Section 3.1, System Components, the UK is described as having a = system similar to the USA. It is not, it is radically different and more = similar to the Australian system. Please modify, by deleting "and = Britain" after ". In other places, such as North America ", and = insert "and the UK" after " such as Australia " a couple of lines = higher. 4. Section 3.2 "System Requirements" under "(2) Call processing = entities" add to the end of the parenthesised sentence " directly = or by further onward connection to a service-specific despatching centre = " - so that it reads "(i.e., one which can dispatch emergency service = resources to the caller's location)."=20 5. Again in Section 3.2, under (=A3) and (4), the document reads as = though it is placing requirements on the PSTN, rather than defining = requirements for SIP. The PSTN is unlikely to change! This part needs = rewording as follows: (3) The telephone network should be supplied-with, or enabled to = supply, a calling party number or other unique geographic indicator, = that can serve as a key to the mapping database.=20 (4) The caller's location needs to be supplied during call set-up, or = by being keyed by calling party number or other unique identifier, is = available in the mapping database. In this document this is assumed to = happen as a configuration step in advance of the call.=20 6. in (5) it states: (5) At least in some jurisdictions, it is required that the ECC=20 call taker can stay in touch with the caller, even though the=20 telephone set goes on hook for an intervening period. = Alternatively=20 the ECC call taker must be given a callback number -- one which = can=20 be dialled to reach the original caller.=20 The second sentence is a different requirement. Consider the scenario = where someone is attacked, manages to reach a phone and dial the = emergency number, it is answered, but before being able to pass any = information other than 'I am being attacked', the attacker causes the = phone to go on hook for long enough to clear the call. As the attacker = continues the phone goes off hook again - thus effectively preventing = any call back. A callback number is more usually used when the emergency = services response is unable to find the location of the incident and = needs to contact the original reporter in order to get directions. I = suggest a separate point (e.g. (8), saying: (8) The telephone network should be supplied-with, or enabled to supply, = a number which enables the ECC to callback the SIP phone that made the = original emergency call. 7. In (7) of the system requirements, you do not really place any real = requirements on SIP. The caller should be accountable, but how? Suggest = you add to the existing text of (7): "In particular callers should not be able to withold calling number or = location information when using emergency codes and have call records = stored for at least initial and final steps in call path within public = call processing entities." 8. Section 3.3: Legacy system operation. The first paragraph would = benefit from some additional clarification on how the system (at least = in the UK) operates. I suggest the following addition as the last = sentence of the first paragraph of 3.3: "This is presented to the emergency call taker to speed-up call handling = and response times on all calls, and to be of especially important = assistance in cases where the caller is unable to provide the = information. (This is now part of the regulatory regime for emergency = calls in the US and European Community)." 9. The second paragraph of 3.3 appears to be a description of the UK = system, and I suggest the following as that paragraph: A special arrangement at the switch serving the ECC may allow the = emergency call taker to hold open the voice path back to the caller as = long as necessary, even if the caller goes on-hook to help establish if = the call is genuine. Note that this functionality is not supported for = ISDN.=20 10. The third paragraph, beginning "where this arrangement does not = apply", delete "where this arrangement does not apply" and replace with = "For further checks after call connection, and when it is not possible = to hold the line" (a better description). 11. The last paragraph of 3.3 would be more helpful if we describe the = configuration data the PSTN uses in their switches, and why: "In the legacy network, PSTN service providers are responsible for = maintaining the ECC mapping database and, of course, the routing = information and Calling Party Number information by configuration of = data in their switches based on knowing call's originating location. = Updates are required every time the relationship between incoming = circuit, the calling number assigned to that circuit, and the location = of the terminal at the other end of that circuit changes. It can = typically take a day to put through a change in the ECC mapping = database, meaning that advance coordination is required to ensure = consistency between configuration and reality." 12. Section 4.2.1, penultimate paragraph: rather than PSTN having "to = know what number to use", it would be better to say what SIP needs to = do: "the PSTN gateway also needs to be provided with a callback number = to use 13. In 4.3.2, last bullet, beginning "The PSTN gateway is responsible = for ...", you seem to be placing requirements on the PSTN gateway. The = PSTN gateway can only act on the information it receives... Suggest = adding "(based on information from the SIP network)" after "a called = party number on the PSTN side". 14. In the conclusion, I suggest that "The ability to signal that = location in SIP would be helpful" is strengthened by adding "in all = cases and essential in a number of scenarios." 15. In 5. Conclusions, before the paragraph beginning "Finally ...", I = suggest a new paragraph that states: "There is now an urgency to arrive at emergency call standards with use = of VoIP growing and the potential for existing implementations to result = in problems and delays in organising responses for ECCs." 16. In 6. Security Considerations, it may be helpful to add to the first = bullet as follows: abuse of the service (i.e., use to make non-emergency calls); this is of = critical importance with hoax, false and accidental calls being more = than half the emergency calls received in some countries; I hope that these comments will help to progress this draft and assist = in the development of SIP for this life-saving sevice. Dick Knight _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 13:30:48 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA11673 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:30:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAYQk-0000ED-9O for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:30:27 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9HHUQuG000869 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:30:26 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAYQj-0000Di-VH for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:30:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA11620 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAYPl-0005zo-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:29:25 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAYPa-0005zc-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:29:14 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAYPN-0008RQ-M3; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:29:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAYOh-0008Qf-Ld for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:28:19 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA11539 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAYOf-0005ym-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:28:17 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAYOf-0005yT-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:28:17 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Oct 2003 10:27:58 -0700 Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9HHRj1d015660; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id AMP99410; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:27:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:27:44 -0700 Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Cc: brian.rosen@marconi.com (Brian Rosen) To: "'sipping@ietf.org'" From: Rohan Mahy Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <381964E0-00C7-11D8-96A9-0003938AF740@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] user=phone discussion Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Folks, I just submitted an I-D summarizing my proposal wrt user=phone. Until it appears in the archive, you can find it on softarmor: http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-mahy-sipping-user-equals- phone-00.txt http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-mahy-sipping-user-equals- phone-00.html many thanks, -rohan _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 16:37:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23353 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:37:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAbLU-00018A-F6 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:37:12 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9HKbCar004340 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:37:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAbLU-00017v-6I for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:37:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23319 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:37:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAbLS-0001Bk-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:37:10 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAbLR-0001Bg-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:37:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAbLK-00014G-HF; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:37:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAbKh-00013U-0z for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:36:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23273 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:36:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAbKf-0001Az-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:36:21 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAbKe-0001Ab-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:36:20 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.68.223.137) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Oct 2003 13:36:05 -0700 Received: from wells.cisco.com (wells.cisco.com [171.71.177.223]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9HKZmeu001854; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jmpolk-w2k01.diablo.cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by wells.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id NAA10140; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20031017152242.0260e428@localhost> X-Sender: jmpolk@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:35:51 -0500 To: Gonzalo Camarillo From: "James M. Polk" Subject: Re: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt Cc: sipping@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <3F8F949E.8060506@ericsson.com> References: <200310101938.PAA15630@ietf.org> <200310101938.PAA15630@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Thank you for your comments Mine are in-line below At 10:05 AM 10/17/2003 +0300, Gonzalo Camarillo wrote: >James, > >I guess the general issue here is creating a new name space (protocol >element for Reason) for preemption stuff. *If* we do that, I would rather >create a general name space and have numeric codes for things like network >preemption or user agent preemption. > >So, rather than this syntax: > >Reason : preempted_Network >Reason : preempted_UA > >I would use this one: > >Reason: preemption ;cause=1 ;text="Network Preemption" >Reason: preemption ;cause=2 ;text="UA Preemption" The way I read 3326, your suggested syntax wasn't really possible - but since you're the chair of the group, I am happy to agree to this suggestion (and will change the next rev of the doc). >We could even choose a more general name space than "preemption" and >include things like loss of radio converage, for instance. I am hesitant to make a more general name space than "preemption" due to the document's stated requirement of logging 'the *purposeful* action of preemption of a session either at the UA or in the network'. The loss of radio coverage is (I think) not purposeful - so it would not meet the requirement. That doesn't mean there can't be another name space for inadvertent or unintended session loss. I have no problem with this - but is does mean something different enough from preemption that I feel the two are independent. If you believe this other name space should still be created, should this be in this ID or another? I'm leaning towards the latter at the moment (which states this is not for cases that support the preemption namespace). Comments? >Gonzalo > > > >Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > >>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>directories. >> >> Title : Extending the Session Initiation Protocol >> Reason Header to account for Preemption Events >> Author(s) : J. Polk >> Filename : >> draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt >> Pages : 14 >> Date : 2003-10-10 >> >>This document proposes an extension to the Session Initiation Protocol >>(SIP) Reason Header [1] to include in a BYE Method Request [2] as a >>result of a session preemption event either at a user agent (UA), or >>somewhere in the network using RSVP [3]. This document does not attempt >>to address routers failing in the packet path; but a deliberate event of >>tearing down a flow between UAs. >>A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt >>To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to >>ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. >>Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username >>"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, >>type "cd internet-drafts" and then >> "get draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt". >>A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >>http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >> >>Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >>Send a message to: >> mailserv@ietf.org. >>In the body type: >> "FILE >> /internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt". >> >>NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in >> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this >> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" >> command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or >> a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers >> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with >> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split >> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on >> how to manipulate these messages. >> >> >>Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >>implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >>Internet-Draft. > >-- >Gonzalo Camarillo Phone : +358 9 299 33 71 >Oy L M Ericsson Ab Mobile: +358 40 702 35 35 >Telecom R&D Fax : +358 9 299 30 52 >FIN-02420 Jorvas Email : Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com >Finland http://www.hut.fi/~gonzalo > cheers, James ******************* Truth is not to be argued... it is to be presented _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 16:43:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23510 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAbRA-0001cI-2S for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:43:04 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9HKh4YC006215 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:43:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAbR9-0001cA-Su for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:43:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23502 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:42:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAbR7-0001Ea-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:43:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAbR7-0001EX-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:43:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAbR7-0001b6-Na; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:43:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAbQr-0001aa-0F for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:42:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23493 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAbQp-0001EQ-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:42:43 -0400 Received: from dgesmtp01.wcom.com ([199.249.16.16]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAbQo-0001EG-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:42:42 -0400 Received: from dgismtp06.wcomnet.com ([166.38.58.89]) by firewall.wcom.com (Iplanet MTA 5.2) with ESMTP id <0HMX004FL5F9SN@firewall.wcom.com> for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:40:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dgismtp06.wcomnet.com by dgismtp06.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with SMTP id <0HMX005015F970@dgismtp06.wcomnet.com> for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:40:21 +0000 (GMT) Received: from hsinnreich2 ([166.50.130.135]) by dgismtp06.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HMX0045U5F4TB@dgismtp06.wcomnet.com>; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:40:21 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:40:16 -0500 From: Henry Sinnreich In-reply-to: <4E4F4B7EF2A53842971777670C0E513C04719A8E@DGEXCH05.mcilink.com> To: "'Brierre, Jean Joseph'" , sipping@ietf.org, "'Sinnreich, Heinrich '" Message-id: <0HMX0045V5F8TB@dgismtp06.wcomnet.com> Organization: WorldCom, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5329 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thread-index: AcOU7Zjn0or5ZTH1SmqotLwOM8GpAwAASR4g Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] RE: I-D ACTION:draft-sinnreich-sipdev-req-02.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > On page 10 of the draft you reference FXS port; > wouldn't that actually be FXO port to support FXS devices? Good catch. Thanks and we will edit. Henry -----Original Message----- From: Brierre, Jean Joseph [mailto:Jean.Joseph.Brierre@mci.com] Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 3:31 PM To: 'sipping@ietf.org'; Sinnreich, Heinrich Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-sinnreich-sipdev-req-02.txt Henry, Would it be preferential if SIP requirement 7 says mwi from message store application versus just voicemail since you are also asking for simple support from client? On page 10 of the draft you reference FXS port; wouldn't that actually be FXO port to support FXS devices? -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-announce@ietf.org [mailto:owner-ietf-announce@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 2:30 PM Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-sinnreich-sipdev-req-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : SIP Telephony Device Requirements, Configuration and Data Filename : draft-sinnreich-sipdev-req-02.txt Pages : 40 Date : 2003-10-16 This informational I-D describes the requirements for SIP Telephony devices, based on the deployment experience of large numbers of SIP phones and PC clients using different implementations. The document reviews the generic requirements for SIP telephony devices, the automatic device configuration process, the device configuration data and examples for XML configuration data formats. SIP telephony devices are highly complex IP endpoints that speak many Internet protocols, have text, audio and visual interfaces, various input modes, and require functionality targeted at several constituencies: (1) End users, (2) service providers and network administrators and (3) manufacturers and system integrators. The objectives of the requirements are a minimum set of interoperability and multi-vendor supported core features, so as to enable similar ease of purchase, installation and operation as found for standard PCs, analog feature phones or mobile phones. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sinnreich-sipdev-req-02.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-sinnreich-sipdev-req-02.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-sinnreich-sipdev-req-02.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 17 20:35:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA01527 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:35:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAf3o-0003d8-Eg for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:35:13 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9I0ZCTh013951 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:35:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAf3o-0003cw-6f for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:35:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA01521 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAf3l-0003ZZ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:35:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAf3l-0003ZW-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:35:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAf3d-0003bn-Ti; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:35:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAf34-0003bT-GT for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:34:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA01443 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAf32-0003YY-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:34:24 -0400 Received: from h65s138a81n47.user.nortelnetworks.com ([47.81.138.65] helo=zsc3s004.nortelnetworks.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAf31-0003Xh-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:34:23 -0400 Received: from zsc3c028.us.nortel.com (zsc3c028.us.nortel.com [47.81.138.28]) by zsc3s004.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h9I0Xi405257; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zsc3c028.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:33:45 -0700 Message-ID: <2F1FC1DEA077D5119FAD00508BCFD6D20BA29E97@zsc3c030.us.nortel.com> From: "Francois Audet" To: "'Rohan Mahy'" , "'sipping@ietf.org'" Cc: "'brian.rosen@marconi.com'" Subject: RE: [Sipping] user=phone discussion Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:33:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C3950F.7CB96EE2" Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3950F.7CB96EE2 Content-Type: text/plain Excellent. Minor typos: - In section 2, replace "Illegally formatted URIs?" with "Illegally formatted URIs:" - In section 9, replace "Francios" with "Francois" (everybody does this: don't know why...) - In the References section, update reference [4] to draft-ietf-iptel-rfc2806bis-02 (not bis-00: your date is OK however) Minor Comments: - Section 5: I can't find anywhere the convention that E is used to represent "*" and F is used to represent "#". Can you explain where this comes from? In every single source I see (including Q.23), the characters are written as is. In any case, 2806-bis already states that the characters '*' and '#' can be used as is in a local-number tel URI (see phonedigit-hex in ABNF), so there is no need for the E/F convention in the first place. In orther words, tel:*1234#;phone-context=alice.example.com and sip:@1234#;phone-context=atlanta.example.com@sip.example.com;user=phone are already legal. - Section 3: FYI, another more obvious example of conflict beyond the Compuserve example is that 505-2345678@foo.com could mean either a phone number in New Mexico (US Area Code 505) or a phone number in Nicaragua (Country code 505). They both use a 7-digit number after the (505) so it wouldn't be resolvable with the length of the number as people often try to do. This is a real example, not a speculation. - Section 4: and are independent and don't need to share the same domain name. All the examples use .example.com for both. But it would be perfectly valid to have sip:1234;phone-context=atlanta.mystartup.com@sip.isp.net;user=phone. This is obvious to most of us, but perhaps not to everybody. > -----Original Message----- > From: Rohan Mahy [mailto:rohan@cisco.com] > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 10:28 > To: 'sipping@ietf.org' > Cc: brian.rosen@marconi.com > Subject: [Sipping] user=phone discussion > > > Hi Folks, > > I just submitted an I-D summarizing my proposal wrt > user=phone. Until > it appears in the archive, you can find it on softarmor: > http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-mahy-sipping-user-equals- phone-00.txt http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-mahy-sipping-user-equals- phone-00.html many thanks, -rohan _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3950F.7CB96EE2 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [Sipping] user=3Dphone discussion

Excellent.

Minor typos:

- In section 2, replace "Illegally formatted = URIs?" with "Illegally formatted URIs:"

- In section 9, replace "Francios" with = "Francois" (everybody does this: don't know why...)

- In the References section, update reference [4] to = draft-ietf-iptel-rfc2806bis-02 (not
  bis-00: your date is OK however)


Minor Comments:

- Section 5: I can't find anywhere the convention = that E is used to represent "*" and
  F is used to represent "#". Can you = explain where this comes from? In every single
  source I see (including Q.23), the characters = are written as is. In any case, 2806-bis
  already states that the characters '*' and = '#' can be used as is in a local-number tel
  URI (see phonedigit-hex in ABNF), so there is = no need for the E/F convention in the first
  place. In orther words, = tel:*1234#;phone-context=3Dalice.example.com and
  = sip:@1234#;phone-context=3Datlanta.example.com@sip.example.com;user=3Dph= one are already
  legal.

- Section 3: FYI, another more obvious example of = conflict beyond the Compuserve example
  is that 505-2345678@foo.com could mean either = a phone number in New Mexico (US Area
  Code 505) or a phone number in Nicaragua = (Country code 505). They both use a
  7-digit number after the (505) so it wouldn't = be resolvable with the length of the
  number as people often try to do. This is a = real example, not a speculation.

- Section 4: <context> and <sipserver> = are independent and don't need to share the
  same domain name. All the examples use = .example.com for both. But it would be perfectly
  valid to have = sip:1234;phone-context=3Datlanta.mystartup.com@sip.isp.net;user=3Dphone.= This
  is obvious to most of us, but perhaps not to = everybody.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rohan Mahy [mailto:rohan@cisco.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 10:28
> To: 'sipping@ietf.org'
> Cc: brian.rosen@marconi.com
> Subject: [Sipping] user=3Dphone = discussion
>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> I just submitted an I-D summarizing my proposal = wrt
> user=3Dphone.  Until 
> it appears in the archive, you can find it on = softarmor:
>
http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-mahy-sipping-= user-equals-
phone-00.txt
http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-mahy-sipping-= user-equals-
phone-00.html

many thanks,
-rohan


_______________________________________________
Sipping mailing list  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping
This list is for NEW development of the application = of SIP
Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions = on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3950F.7CB96EE2-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Oct 18 01:56:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA08574 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:56:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAk4Q-0000QG-9Q for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:56:10 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9I5uAoH001621 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:56:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAk4Q-0000Q4-2X for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:56:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA08564 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:56:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAk4M-00067K-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:56:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAk4M-00067H-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:56:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAk4I-0000Og-5Q; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:56:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAk47-0000O7-O4 for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:55:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA08546 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:55:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAk43-00066o-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:55:47 -0400 Received: from imr2.ericy.com ([198.24.6.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAk43-00066V-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:55:47 -0400 Received: from eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se (eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.133.51]) by imr2.ericy.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9I5tAO8017047; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:55:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ericsson.com (EFO9N000L5C7100 [153.88.94.1]) by eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2656.59) id S8VD2HH8; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:54:25 -0500 Message-ID: <3F90D5B3.6040307@ericsson.com> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:54:59 +0300 X-Sybari-Trust: 5747c941 406a040f c001c63b 00000138 From: Gonzalo Camarillo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "James M. Polk" CC: sipping@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt References: <200310101938.PAA15630@ietf.org> <200310101938.PAA15630@ietf.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20031017152242.0260e428@localhost> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20031017152242.0260e428@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James, my point was that the name space needs to be as general as possible. In your original draft you were using two names spaces for preemption, while one, as suggested, was be enough... still, I was wondering if there was an even more general name space than preemption. But if you cannot think of a more general name space, it is fine with me. I only wanted you to give it a thought, since you know exactl best the types of applications you have in mind. Gonzalo James M. Polk wrote: > Thank you for your comments > > Mine are in-line below > > At 10:05 AM 10/17/2003 +0300, Gonzalo Camarillo wrote: > >> James, >> >> I guess the general issue here is creating a new name space (protocol >> element for Reason) for preemption stuff. *If* we do that, I would >> rather create a general name space and have numeric codes for things >> like network preemption or user agent preemption. >> >> So, rather than this syntax: >> >> Reason : preempted_Network >> Reason : preempted_UA >> >> I would use this one: >> >> Reason: preemption ;cause=1 ;text="Network Preemption" >> Reason: preemption ;cause=2 ;text="UA Preemption" > > > The way I read 3326, your suggested syntax wasn't really possible - but > since you're the chair of the group, I am happy to agree to this > suggestion (and will change the next rev of the doc). > > >> We could even choose a more general name space than "preemption" and >> include things like loss of radio converage, for instance. > > > I am hesitant to make a more general name space than "preemption" due to > the document's stated requirement of logging 'the *purposeful* action of > preemption of a session either at the UA or in the network'. The loss of > radio coverage is (I think) not purposeful - so it would not meet the > requirement. > > That doesn't mean there can't be another name space for inadvertent or > unintended session loss. I have no problem with this - but is does mean > something different enough from preemption that I feel the two are > independent. > > If you believe this other name space should still be created, should > this be in this ID or another? I'm leaning towards the latter at the > moment (which states this is not for cases that support the preemption > namespace). > > Comments? > > >> Gonzalo >> >> >> >> Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: >> >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>> directories. >>> >>> Title : Extending the Session Initiation Protocol >>> Reason Header to account for Preemption Events >>> Author(s) : J. Polk >>> Filename : >>> draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt >>> Pages : 14 >>> Date : 2003-10-10 >>> >>> This document proposes an extension to the Session Initiation >>> Protocol (SIP) Reason Header [1] to include in a BYE Method Request >>> [2] as a result of a session preemption event either at a user agent >>> (UA), or somewhere in the network using RSVP [3]. This document does >>> not attempt to address routers failing in the packet path; but a >>> deliberate event of tearing down a flow between UAs. >>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt >>> >>> To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to >>> ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the >>> message. >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the >>> username >>> "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, >>> type "cd internet-drafts" and then >>> "get draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt". >>> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >>> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >>> >>> Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >>> Send a message to: >>> mailserv@ietf.org. >>> In the body type: >>> "FILE >>> /internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-reason-header-for-preemption-00.txt". >>> >>> >>> NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in >>> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this >>> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" >>> command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or >>> a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail >>> readers >>> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with >>> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split >>> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on >>> how to manipulate these messages. >>> >>> >>> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >>> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >>> Internet-Draft. >> >> >> -- >> Gonzalo Camarillo Phone : +358 9 299 33 71 >> Oy L M Ericsson Ab Mobile: +358 40 702 35 35 >> Telecom R&D Fax : +358 9 299 30 52 >> FIN-02420 Jorvas Email : Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com >> Finland http://www.hut.fi/~gonzalo >> > > > cheers, > James > > ******************* > Truth is not to be argued... it is to be presented -- Gonzalo Camarillo Phone : +358 9 299 33 71 Oy L M Ericsson Ab Mobile: +358 40 702 35 35 Telecom R&D Fax : +358 9 299 30 52 FIN-02420 Jorvas Email : Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com Finland http://www.hut.fi/~gonzalo _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Oct 18 12:20:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01989 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAtoM-0002x9-F5 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:20:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9IGKEZJ011347 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:20:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAtoM-0002ww-8n for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:20:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01982 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:20:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAtoK-0002bF-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:20:12 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAtoK-0002bC-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:20:12 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAtoB-0002u8-3O; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:20:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAtnF-0002cy-Qr for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:19:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01958 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAtnE-0002ar-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:19:04 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAtnD-0002ah-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:19:04 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Oct 2003 09:18:44 -0700 Received: from mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com [171.71.163.15]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9IGIUQa011926; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.100] (sjc-vpn3-717.cisco.com [10.21.66.205]) by mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id AJD21459; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:18:29 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:15:21 -0700 From: Cullen Jennings To: "'sipping'" CC: Cullen Jennings , David Bryan Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] Describing dial tone and such using MIDI Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Bryan and I have submitted a draft on describing PSTN tones such as dialtone using MIDI - until it shows up in the drafts directory, you can find it at: http://www.employees.org/~fluffy/ietf/draft-bryan-sipping-midi-00.txt http://www.employees.org/~fluffy/ietf/draft-bryan-sipping-midi-00.html Cullen _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 19 00:54:02 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA18125 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:54:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AB5ZX-0002kQ-EY for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:53:43 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9J4rhS4010555 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:53:43 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AB5ZX-0002kA-2k for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:53:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA18110 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:53:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AB5ZU-0002Nj-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:53:40 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AB5ZT-0002Nf-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:53:39 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AB5Yr-0002P3-R1; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:53:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AB5Y7-00027G-DS for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:52:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA18095 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:52:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AB5Y4-0002NF-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:52:12 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AB5Y4-0002N0-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:52:12 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Oct 2003 21:51:12 -0700 Received: from mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com [171.71.163.15]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9J4orQY000754; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.100] (sjc-vpn1-416.cisco.com [10.21.97.160]) by mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id AJD35310; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:50:53 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 21:50:52 -0700 From: Cullen Jennings To: "James M. Polk" , Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20031014095503.0767fdd8@localhost> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] Reason Header for Preemption - Why? Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IP phone A is in a call and it gets presented - the call will get torn down. Does A do something different because the call was torn down because of preemption? Is it just so we can tell the user of phone A something useful about why their call ended? Cullen _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 19 09:13:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07257 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:13:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABDMt-0003Ua-LX for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:13:11 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9JDDBc6013419 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:13:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABDMt-0003UL-Ft for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:13:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07242 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABDMr-0005Dr-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:13:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABDMr-0005Do-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:13:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABDMk-0003RP-1W; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:13:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABDLt-000384-RX for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:12:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07226 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABDLs-0005DK-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:12:08 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABDLr-0005D2-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:12:07 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Oct 2003 15:09:41 +0200 Received: from mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com [171.71.163.15]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9JDBXiw000842; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 06:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.32.245.146] (stealth-10-32-245-146.cisco.com [10.32.245.146]) by mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with SMTP id AJD41377; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 06:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:11:30 -0400 From: "David R. Oran" To: Cullen Jennings , "James M. Polk" , sipping@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Sipping] Reason Header for Preemption - Why? Message-ID: <149677484.1066554690@[10.32.245.146]> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.0b8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --On Saturday, October 18, 2003 9:50 PM -0700 Cullen Jennings wrote: > > IP phone A is in a call and it gets presented - the call will get torn > down. Does A do something different because the call was torn down > because of preemption? > Possibly run a longer retry timer if the phone is programmed to try to reestablish calls automatically. > Is it just so we can tell the user of phone A something useful about why > their call ended? > Mostly. It may also have use in statistics so that these calls don't get lumped in with stats used to compute MTBF and MTTR. > Cullen > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP ------------------------ David R. Oran Cisco Systems 7 Ladyslipper Lane Acton, MA 01720 Office: +1 978 264 2048 VoIP: +1 408 571 4576 Email: oran@cisco.com _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 19 14:00:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA13909 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABHqk-00022D-J0 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:00:18 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9JI0Ikw007815 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:00:18 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABHqk-00021y-EI for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:00:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA13901 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:00:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABHqi-00074q-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:00:16 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABHqh-00074n-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:00:15 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABHqV-0001sv-8L; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 14:00:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABHpc-0001QH-GK for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:59:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13871 for ; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:58:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABHpa-00074Q-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:59:06 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABHpZ-00073p-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:59:05 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Oct 2003 19:56:40 +0200 Received: from wells.cisco.com (wells.cisco.com [171.71.177.223]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9JHwWiw005161; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:58:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jmpolk-w2k01.diablo.cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by wells.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id KAA25560; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 10:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20031019124749.02488f40@localhost> X-Sender: jmpolk@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 12:58:25 -0500 To: "David R. Oran" , Cullen Jennings , sipping@ietf.org From: "James M. Polk" Subject: Re: [Sipping] Reason Header for Preemption - Why? In-Reply-To: <149677484.1066554690@[10.32.245.146]> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 09:11 AM 10/19/2003 -0400, David R. Oran wrote: >--On Saturday, October 18, 2003 9:50 PM -0700 Cullen Jennings > wrote: > >> >>IP phone A is in a call and it gets presented - the call will get torn >>down. Does A do something different because the call was torn down >>because of preemption? >Possibly run a longer retry timer if the phone is programmed to try to >reestablish calls automatically. > >>Is it just so we can tell the user of phone A something useful about why >>their call ended? >Mostly. It may also have use in statistics so that these calls don't get >lumped in with stats used to compute MTBF and MTTR. SIP element synchronization (including Servers) of a specific event is one aspect that is important (this would be just as Dave stated - for statistics or accounting). One other one is that UAs that receive this BYE with this Reason value will (in some networks) need to play either a specific tone or announcement to that user which is appropriate to that event. If A_B are in a session when C signals to B to preempt any session it is currently on, *something* has to tell A it is no longer in the session, a BYE is appropriate. But, this is not a normal end of session event, it is preemption. If that event needs to cause UA A to play a unique preemption tone (or play an announcement), it needs some indication in the BYE to do such an action. My proposal for a new Reason value is this indication. Is this not the general concept behind the Reason Header (to provide more information)? comments >>Cullen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping >>This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP >>Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip >>Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > > > >------------------------ >David R. Oran >Cisco Systems >7 Ladyslipper Lane >Acton, MA 01720 >Office: +1 978 264 2048 >VoIP: +1 408 571 4576 >Email: oran@cisco.com cheers, James ******************* Truth is not to be argued... it is to be presented _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 00:26:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA29512 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:26:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABRcK-0002WT-Nj for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:26:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9K4Q4hN009605 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:26:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABRcK-0002UT-B0 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:26:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA29493 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:25:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABRcH-0003g7-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:26:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABRcH-0003g4-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:26:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABRcH-0002S2-9w; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:26:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABRbU-0002BM-DU for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:25:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA29433 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABRbR-0003fL-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:25:09 -0400 Received: from ondar.cablelabs.com ([192.160.73.61]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABRbR-0003el-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:25:09 -0400 Received: from srvxchg.cablelabs.com (srvxchg.cablelabs.com [10.5.0.20]) by ondar.cablelabs.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K4OW10008410; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:24:33 -0600 (MDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:24:32 -0600 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: quick update on sipping -> mmusic realtimefax draft Thread-Index: AcORsWlk8ry6I0CQT7CwnLZFKETzJAAohFvQAADLo7AADNIOoAENK/0Q From: "Jean-Francois Mule" To: , "Hearty, John" , "Joel Payeur" Cc: "Henry Sinnreich" X-Approved: ondar Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Sipping] quick update on sipping -> mmusic realtimefax draft Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, I've been trying to hit the deadline for the mmusic draft-00 for = IETF#58 (10/20), and after more considerations, I won't be releasing an = official I-D for the next meeting.=20 The new draft has a different scope (sdp and use offer/answer for = capability indication and t.38 negotiation rather than sipping call = flows). It's been reworked quite significantly but it's not ready. I'd = rather close some issues on the sipping/mmusic lists than release the = mmusic draft as-is. Jean-Fran=E7ois=20 _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 04:03:50 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA16946 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABV0i-0002bK-9S for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:03:29 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9K83S5P009998 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:03:28 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABV0h-0002bB-St for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:03:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA16932 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABV0f-0005Ua-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:03:25 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABV0e-0005UW-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:03:24 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABV0H-0002RM-1f; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:03:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABUzh-0002Ku-NG for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:02:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA16912 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:02:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABUze-0005U4-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:02:23 -0400 Received: from imr2.ericy.com ([198.24.6.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABUze-0005Tl-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:02:22 -0400 Received: from eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se (eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.133.51]) by imr2.ericy.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9K81TO8028969; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:01:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ericsson.com (EFO9N000L5C7100.lmf.ericsson.se [131.160.31.110]) by eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2656.59) id S8VD36G8; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:00:41 -0500 Message-ID: <3F939657.6050801@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:01:27 +0300 X-Sybari-Trust: 9d6c9e32 406a040f c001c63b 00000138 From: Gonzalo Camarillo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sipping CC: Rohan Mahy , Dean Willis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] Agenda requests Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, I will be taking care of registering agenda requests for the Minneapolis meeting at: http://www.softarmor.com/sipping/meets/ietf58/requests.html Send your requests to me including: o Your name o Topic you would like to present o Lenght of the slot o List of related drafts that people should read If you use the following template to send me your request, you would make this task much easier for me: Gonzalo Camarillo Exploder requirements
5
draft-camarillo-sipping-exploders-00.txt Thanks, Gonzalo _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 09:33:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA25558 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABa9k-0003MF-O7 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:33:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KDX8iZ012900 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:33:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABa9k-0003Lz-Jp for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:33:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA25545 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABa9i-0000Dg-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:33:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABa9i-0000Dd-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:33:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABa9c-0003H6-S9; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:33:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAbKb-00013O-Cr for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:36:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23270 for ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:36:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAbKZ-0001At-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:36:15 -0400 Received: from dgesmtp02.wcom.com ([199.249.16.17]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAbKZ-0001Aa-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:36:15 -0400 Received: from pmismtp05.wcomnet.com ([166.38.62.53]) by firewall.wcom.com (Iplanet MTA 5.2) with ESMTP id <0HMX00M6N4ZXZM@firewall.wcom.com> for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:31:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pmismtp05.wcomnet.com by pmismtp05.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with SMTP id <0HMX004014Y760@pmismtp05.wcomnet.com> for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:31:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dgexch50.wcomnet.com ([166.38.58.238]) by pmismtp05.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HMX003P54ZR03@pmismtp05.wcomnet.com> for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:31:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: by DGEXCH50.mcilink.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:31:03 +0000 Content-return: allowed Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:30:56 +0000 From: "Brierre, Jean Joseph" To: "'sipping@ietf.org'" , "Sinnreich, Heinrich " Message-id: <4E4F4B7EF2A53842971777670C0E513C04719A8E@DGEXCH05.mcilink.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=us-ascii Subject: [Sipping] RE: I-D ACTION:draft-sinnreich-sipdev-req-02.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Henry, Would it be preferential if SIP requirement 7 says mwi from message store application versus just voicemail since you are also asking for simple support from client? On page 10 of the draft you reference FXS port; wouldn't that actually be FXO port to support FXS devices? -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-announce@ietf.org [mailto:owner-ietf-announce@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 2:30 PM Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-sinnreich-sipdev-req-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : SIP Telephony Device Requirements, Configuration and Data Filename : draft-sinnreich-sipdev-req-02.txt Pages : 40 Date : 2003-10-16 This informational I-D describes the requirements for SIP Telephony devices, based on the deployment experience of large numbers of SIP phones and PC clients using different implementations. The document reviews the generic requirements for SIP telephony devices, the automatic device configuration process, the device configuration data and examples for XML configuration data formats. SIP telephony devices are highly complex IP endpoints that speak many Internet protocols, have text, audio and visual interfaces, various input modes, and require functionality targeted at several constituencies: (1) End users, (2) service providers and network administrators and (3) manufacturers and system integrators. The objectives of the requirements are a minimum set of interoperability and multi-vendor supported core features, so as to enable similar ease of purchase, installation and operation as found for standard PCs, analog feature phones or mobile phones. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sinnreich-sipdev-req-02.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-sinnreich-sipdev-req-02.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-sinnreich-sipdev-req-02.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 10:47:59 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29352 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABbJr-0006Hl-Ot for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:47:40 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KEldD8024158 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:47:39 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABbJr-0006HZ-Bv for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:47:39 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29312 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:47:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABbJF-000648-2m; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:47:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABbIy-00060E-DT for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:46:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA29306 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:46:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABbIv-0000zY-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:46:42 -0400 Received: from mailgate.pit.comms.marconi.com ([169.144.68.6]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABbIv-0000z0-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:46:41 -0400 Received: from mailman.pit.comms.marconi.com (mailman.pit.comms.marconi.com [169.144.2.12]) by mailgate.pit.comms.marconi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19618 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:46:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uspitsmsgrtr01.pit.comms.marconi.com (uspitsmsgrtr01.pit.comms.marconi.com [169.144.2.221]) by mailman.pit.comms.marconi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11567 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by uspitsmsgrtr01.pit.comms.marconi.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:45:42 -0400 Message-ID: <313680C9A886D511A06000204840E1CF070B5FF5@whq-msgusr-02.pit.comms.marconi.com> From: "Rosen, Brian" To: "'sipping@ietf.org'" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 10:45:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Sipping] Brian's Comments on draft-mahy-sipping-user-equals- Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This document is a start, but in my opinion not enough. The introduction must define dial strings, and differentiate them from local phone numbers. It should introduce the idea that a proxy in the listed domain of a dial string must translate to a global or local number, and that some phones will do this translation themselves while others will not. Section 5 inadequately deals with dial strings. Dial strings are not local numbers, and must be translated to local numbers. One must disambiguate dial strings from local numbers because it is possible that they collide. Such a differentiation is also useful to know when translation has been completed. It has been proposed to use separate contexts for dial strings and local numbers. I generally don't like this idea, but it can be made to work. It would be best if there was some kind of naming convention to differentiate, but this is not strictly necessary. What is necessary is text in a document: 1. Saying that dial strings aren't local numbers 2. Permitting dial strings in a sip uri, with a dial string context. Note: if you wish to permit a dial string in a tel uri, then the language in 2806bis must be modified, IMO. 3. Explicitly defining the use of E/F 4. Illustrating the use of separate contexts for dial strings 5. Discussing the provisioning implications of having two local contexts, one for phones with translation and another for phones without translation It would be much more satisfactory, in my opinion, to simply define user=dialstring, or something similar, to denote that the user part is a dial string. Note that sip phones that presently put dial strings in a sip uri without a context must change anyway. We also should define a way to express a dial string with pauses and waits. They are pretty useful. They are dialable in many gateways. We need a way to send such a string. Again, we need text, and again, we could use a separate context for such strings. I do agree with the draft's concepts that user=phone indicates a local or global number as defined by 2806bis user=phone without a context on a local number is deprecated As before, I will write text when we agree we want text to cover. Thanks to Rohan for this good start. Brian _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 12:04:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01886 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABcVy-0000My-WE for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:04:15 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KG4EDl001417 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:04:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABcVy-0000Mm-O6 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:04:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01861 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:04:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABcVx-0001k0-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:04:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABcVw-0001jv-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:04:12 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABcVl-0000I6-AI; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:04:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABcVW-0000El-1u for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:03:46 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01835 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:03:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABcVU-0001jL-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:03:44 -0400 Received: from ns2.research.bell-labs.com ([204.178.16.49] helo=crufty.research.bell-labs.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABcVT-0001jI-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:03:44 -0400 Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com (H-135-104-2-9.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.9]) by crufty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KG3bnl041908; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com [135.180.160.8]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KG3VJl013527; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:03:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bell-labs.com (volker-hopc [135.180.240.186]) by bronx.dnrc.bell-labs.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9KG3TFU023430; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F940736.40700@bell-labs.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:03:02 -0400 From: Volker Hilt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: de-de, de, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sipping CC: Jonathan Rosenberg , Gonzalo Camarillo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] draft-hilt-sipping-session-policy-00 Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have submitted the drafts draft-hilt-sipping-session-spec-policy-00 and draft-hilt-sipping-session-indep-policy-00. Until they are available in the I-D archive, you can download them from: http://drafts.mhof.com/draft-hilt-sipping-session-indep-policy-00.txt http://drafts.mhof.com/draft-hilt-sipping-session-spec-policy-00.txt Thanks, Volker ----------- Session Initiation Proposal V. Hilt Investigation Working Group Bell Labs/Lucent Technologies Internet-Draft J. Rosenberg Expires: April 18, 2004 dynamicsoft October 19, 2003 A Framework for Session-Specific Intermediary Session Policies in SIP draft-hilt-sipping-session-spec-policy-00 Abstract Proxy servers play a central role as an intermediary in the establishment of sessions in the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP). In that role, they define and impact policies on call routing, rendezvous, and other call features. However, there is currently no standard means by which network elements can have any influence on session policies, such as the codecs that are to be used. In this document, we propose a complete and standards-based framework that enables intermediaries to request the use of policies in a SIP session. ----------- Session Initiation Proposal V. Hilt Investigation Working Group Bell Labs/Lucent Technologies Internet-Draft G. Camarillo Expires: April 18, 2004 Ericsson J. Rosenberg dynamicsoft October 19, 2003 A Framework for Session-Independent Intermediary Session Policies in SIP draft-hilt-sipping-session-indep-policy-00 Abstract Domains may have policies in place that impact the way sessions are established by user agents. Some of these policies are independent of a specific session and need to be considered for a certain period of time. It is therefore desirable to convey these policies to user agents once they become active instead of requesting them for every session. In this document, we propose a framework that enables user agents to subscribe to session policies. _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 15:43:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA21499 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:43:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABfvp-00011T-Dc for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:43:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KJh9xh003927 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:43:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABfvp-00010t-9Y for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:43:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA21333 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABfvn-0005Kw-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:43:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABfvn-0005Kt-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:43:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABfvh-0000vr-Hd; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:43:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABfvF-0000n8-Ny for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:42:33 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA21118; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:42:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310201942.PAA21118@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: sipping@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:42:23 -0400 Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-mahy-sipping-user-equals-phone-00.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Proposed Clarification of Encoding of Telephone Numbers in SIP URis Author(s) : R. Mahy Filename : draft-mahy-sipping-user-equals-phone-00.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2003-10-20 There is much confusion about how to represent telephone numbers and other related strings of digits in SIP URIs and tel: URIs, especailly when those digit strings are of purely local significance. This matter is complicated by the underspecification of the 'user' SIP URI parameter in RFC3261 and the phone-context parameter in RFC2806.This document proposes specific semantics for the user=phone parameter and describes several ways to encode digits strings and phone numbers in a manner consistent with that proposal. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mahy-sipping-user-equals-phone-00.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-mahy-sipping-user-equals-phone-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-mahy-sipping-user-equals-phone-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-20144907.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-mahy-sipping-user-equals-phone-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-mahy-sipping-user-equals-phone-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-20144907.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 15:47:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA22783 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:47:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABfze-0002Jo-60 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:47:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KJl6OZ008909 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:47:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABfzd-0002Jc-Vr for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:47:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA22670 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:46:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABfzc-0005VZ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:47:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABfzb-0005VV-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:47:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABfzZ-0002EF-Jd; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:47:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABfyh-00020k-67 for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:46:07 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA22407; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:45:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310201945.PAA22407@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: sipping@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:45:57 -0400 Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-early-media-00.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Proposal Investigation Working Group of the IETF. Title : Early Media and Ringing Tone Generation in the Session Initiation Protocol Author(s) : G. Camarillo, H. Schulzrinne Filename : draft-ietf-sipping-early-media-00.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2003-10-20 This document describes how to manage early media in SIP using two models; the gateway model and the application server model. It also describes the inputs one needs to consider to define local policies for ringing tone generation. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-early-media-00.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sipping-early-media-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-early-media-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-20145351.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-early-media-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-sipping-early-media-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-20145351.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 16:58:43 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04605 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABh6a-00023b-N7 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:58:22 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KKwKhG007901 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:58:20 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABh6a-00023M-Ja for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:58:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04589 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABh6Y-0000KP-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:58:18 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABh6X-0000KM-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:58:17 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABh6I-0001xG-3h; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:58:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABh62-0001tr-GH for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:57:46 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04567 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABh60-0000Jw-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:57:44 -0400 Received: from bdsl.66.12.12.130.gte.net ([66.12.12.130] helo=bdsl.greycouncil.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABh5z-0000JX-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:57:43 -0400 Received: from txdwillis (bdsl.66.12.12.254.gte.net [66.12.12.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by bdsl.greycouncil.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9KKvCBe004802 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:57:13 -0500 From: "Dean Willis" To: "'sipping'" Cc: "'Bernard Aboba'" Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:57:00 -0500 Message-ID: <002501c3974c$b55c2750$e1036e3f@txdwillis> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let's revisit where we are on the SIP-AAA work. Or at least where I = THINK we are, so please help me get this right. 1) We have a requirements draft. http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-ietf-sipping-aaa-req-03.txt 2) We have a RADIUS draft that is VERY expired, but=20 variations are widely implemented: http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt 3) There's a DIAMETER draft: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-aaa-diameter-sip-app-00.tx= t Actually, there are a lot of DIAMETER-related drafts dealing with SIP. 4) There's a RADIUS Accounting draft from Henning et al, which I seem to have misplaced the text of. We seem to have a consensus to do at least some work in standardizing = RADIUS usage. It appears that the likeliest way forward is to conclude on the Sterman draft. We also seem to have an interest (if not consensus yet) = in doing something to help with accounting for SIP operations using RADIUS. Bernard Aboba, chairing the RADIUSEXT work, would like to know what if anything we would like RADIUSEXT to include on their agenda for the = November meeting. It looks like they MIGHT be meeting Friday morning (agendas do change). I'm thinking: 1) The Sterman-AAA draft: Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in RADIUSEXT? I believe we have a consensus to proceed with this draft in SIPPING of RADIUSEXT doesn't want to take the lead. I would propose that the work = be jointly reviewed. 2) The RADIUS Accounting draft: Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in RADIUSEXT? = Thanks. -- Dean _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 17:45:42 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA07287 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:45:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABhq6-0007aJ-2d for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:45:23 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KLjMn3029149 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:45:22 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABhq5-0007a4-Sf for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:45:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA07233 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABhq2-0001H8-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:45:18 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABhq2-0001H5-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:45:18 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABhpm-0007WP-PO; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:45:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABhpA-0007Pz-TE for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:44:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA07124 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:44:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABhow-0001EF-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:44:10 -0400 Received: from dgesmtp01.wcom.com ([199.249.16.16]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABhoq-0001Cg-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:44:09 -0400 Received: from dgismtp01.wcomnet.com ([166.38.58.141]) by firewall.wcom.com (Iplanet MTA 5.2) with ESMTP id <0HN2005BIS6RXX@firewall.wcom.com> for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:40:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dgismtp01.wcomnet.com by dgismtp01.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with SMTP id <0HN200A01S6QUA@dgismtp01.wcomnet.com>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:40:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from hsinnreich2 ([166.50.136.52]) by dgismtp01.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HN200A2BS6PK8@dgismtp01.wcomnet.com>; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:40:02 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:40:02 -0500 From: Henry Sinnreich Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting In-reply-to: <002501c3974c$b55c2750$e1036e3f@txdwillis> To: "'Dean Willis'" Cc: "'Bernard Aboba'" , "'sipping'" Message-id: <0HN200A2CS6QK8@dgismtp01.wcomnet.com> Organization: WorldCom, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5329 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thread-index: AcOXTP1UUHbUbn22TDOJa5q8L0BtjQAAcwWA Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am afraid I may get ruled out of scope, but maybe we could also extend an invitation to the authors of numerous Wi-Fi - RADIUS authors and implementers, since it appears we may have a power combo in SIP-RADIUS and 802.1x, please see for example http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802/download/802.1X-2001.pdf Just to have a more complete background information about the synergies here and the consistent approach this promises. At least we should be aware of the synergy here in some of the proposed SIP-RADIUS I-Ds and the common AAA infrastructure with Wi-Fi Internet access. Out of scope? Sure... Thanks, Henry Henry Sinnreich MCI 400 International Parkway Richardson, Texas 75081 USA Have you disconnected the PBX? -----Original Message----- From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Dean Willis Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 3:57 PM To: 'sipping' Cc: 'Bernard Aboba' Subject: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting Let's revisit where we are on the SIP-AAA work. Or at least where I THINK we are, so please help me get this right. 1) We have a requirements draft. http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-ietf-sipping-aaa-req-03.txt 2) We have a RADIUS draft that is VERY expired, but variations are widely implemented: http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt 3) There's a DIAMETER draft: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-aaa-diameter-sip-app-00.txt Actually, there are a lot of DIAMETER-related drafts dealing with SIP. 4) There's a RADIUS Accounting draft from Henning et al, which I seem to have misplaced the text of. We seem to have a consensus to do at least some work in standardizing RADIUS usage. It appears that the likeliest way forward is to conclude on the Sterman draft. We also seem to have an interest (if not consensus yet) in doing something to help with accounting for SIP operations using RADIUS. Bernard Aboba, chairing the RADIUSEXT work, would like to know what if anything we would like RADIUSEXT to include on their agenda for the November meeting. It looks like they MIGHT be meeting Friday morning (agendas do change). I'm thinking: 1) The Sterman-AAA draft: Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in RADIUSEXT? I believe we have a consensus to proceed with this draft in SIPPING of RADIUSEXT doesn't want to take the lead. I would propose that the work be jointly reviewed. 2) The RADIUS Accounting draft: Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in RADIUSEXT? Thanks. -- Dean _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 06:22:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12160 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABteX-0001kO-7N for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:22:13 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LAMDI2006707 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:22:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABteW-0001k6-Ia for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:22:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12148 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABteS-0001rI-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:22:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABteS-0001rE-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:22:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABteL-0001gH-QN; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:22:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABtdy-0001Vd-Hp for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:21:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12137 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:21:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABtdu-0001r0-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:21:34 -0400 Received: from goalie.snowshore.com ([216.57.133.4] helo=webshield.office.snowshore.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABtdt-0001qp-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:21:34 -0400 Received: from zoe.office.snowshore.com(192.168.1.172) by webshield.office.snowshore.com via csmap id 29046; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:29:17 -0400 (EDT) content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Sipping] Describing dial tone and such using MIDI X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 06:21:11 -0400 Message-ID: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F681A@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Thread-Topic: [Sipping] Describing dial tone and such using MIDI Thread-Index: AcOVk+xP7RgP7zLOTpWsbRp0nmq5BwCKMxEw From: "Eric Burger" To: "Cullen Jennings" , "sipping" Cc: "David Bryan" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looks good. However, I question saying that the MIDI body is a cid:. = Why not just say it's a URI reference, which could be a cid:? By the way -- the country reference is (a) invaluable and (b) a lot of = work. Excellent job! > -----Original Message----- > From: Cullen Jennings [mailto:fluffy@cisco.com] > Sent: Sat, October 18, 2003 12:15 PM > To: 'sipping' > Cc: Cullen Jennings; David Bryan > Subject: [Sipping] Describing dial tone and such using MIDI >=20 >=20 >=20 > David Bryan and I have submitted a draft on describing PSTN=20 > tones such as > dialtone using MIDI - until it shows up in the drafts=20 > directory, you can > find it at: >=20 > http://www.employees.org/~fluffy/ietf/draft-bryan-sipping-midi-00.txt >=20 > http://www.employees.org/~fluffy/ietf/draft-bryan-sipping-midi-00.html >=20 > Cullen >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 16:41:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07479 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC3JJ-00034l-RX for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:40:57 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LKevgk011819 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:40:57 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC3JJ-00034Y-OS for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:40:57 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07412 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC3IR-0002lk-VE; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:40:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC3IF-0002h4-4K for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:39:51 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07011; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:39:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310212039.QAA07011@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: sipping@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:39:38 -0400 Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : SIP Transfer Issues Author(s) : D. Petrie Filename : draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2003-10-20 Transfer features in SIP have been enabled via the REFER method and Replaces header. These constructs have been around for a while now with stable definitions for how they work. However, there appear to be a small set of edge cases and requirements that are not yet satisfied. This draft attempts to define some of those cases and requirements. This is intended to spark discussion to whether these are legitimate requirements on which further standards work is appropriate. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-21164032.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-21164032.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 21:02:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA22074 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:02:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC7O7-0001wE-FN for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:02:11 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9M12B0I007444 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:02:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC7O7-0001vz-Bp for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:02:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA22040 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC7O4-0005uO-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:02:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC7O4-0005uL-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:02:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC7Ny-0001sV-IG; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:02:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AC7N9-0001gw-M3 for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:01:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA22017 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:01:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC7N7-0005ty-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:01:09 -0400 Received: from rwcrmhc11.comcast.net ([204.127.198.35]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AC7N6-0005tt-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:01:08 -0400 Received: from pingtel.com (h00d01e004cd0.ne.client2.attbi.com[66.30.203.15]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc11) with SMTP id <2003102201003201300mbqg9e> (Authid: dgpetrie); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:00:33 +0000 Message-ID: <3F95D6C6.66406C4D@pingtel.com> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:00:54 -0400 From: "Daniel G. Petrie" Organization: Pingtel Corp. http://www.pingtel.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sipping@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : SIP Transfer Issues Author(s) : D. Petrie Filename : draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2003-10-20 Transfer features in SIP have been enabled via the REFER method and Replaces header. These constructs have been around for a while now with stable definitions for how they work. However, there appear to be a small set of edge cases and requirements that are not yet satisfied. This draft attempts to define some of those cases and requirements. This is intended to spark discussion to whether these are legitimate requirements on which further standards work is appropriate. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 22 03:26:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA27508 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACDNj-0003hn-5h for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:26:12 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9M7QBWF014242 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:26:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACDNi-0003hd-Ow for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:26:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA27459 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:26:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACDNg-0001Sa-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:26:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACDNf-0001SX-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:26:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACDNa-0003cE-AX; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:26:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACDMd-0003M9-PB for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:25:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA27443 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:24:53 -0400 (EDT) From: john.loughney@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACDMb-0001Ru-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:25:01 -0400 Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com ([131.228.20.21]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACDMa-0001Rr-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 03:25:00 -0400 Received: from esvir05nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir05nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.37]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id h9M7P0w02408 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:25:00 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from esebh002.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir05nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:24:59 +0300 Received: from esebe015.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.54]) by esebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:24:59 +0300 Received: from esebe023.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.115]) by esebe015.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:24:58 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:24:58 +0300 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting Thread-Index: AcOXTPb57eSZOdycSjGD45yqpqGzugBIB6sw To: , Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Oct 2003 07:24:58.0905 (UTC) FILETIME=[99675890:01C3986D] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dean, Some very quick comments: > Let's revisit where we are on the SIP-AAA work. Or at least where I = THINK we > are, so please help me get this right. >=20 > 1) We have a requirements draft. > http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-ietf-sipping-aaa-req-03.txt >=20 > 2) We have a RADIUS draft that is VERY expired, but variations are = widely implemented: > http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt >=20 > 3) There's a DIAMETER draft: > = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-aaa-diameter-sip-app-00.tx= t The Diameter work has some constituency (at least 3GPP) and is chartered in the AAA. Work is well underway. We are happy to get input from the SIP community on this draft. However, I think RADIUS extensions for SIP is a different issue than this. > 4) There's a RADIUS Accounting draft from Henning et al, which I seem = to > have misplaced the text of. >=20 > We seem to have a consensus to do at least some work in standardizing = RADIUS > usage. It appears that the likeliest way forward is to conclude on the > Sterman draft. We also seem to have an interest (if not consensus yet) = in > doing something to help with accounting for SIP operations using = RADIUS. >=20 > Bernard Aboba, chairing the RADIUSEXT work, would like to know what if > anything we would like RADIUSEXT to include on their agenda for the = November > meeting. It looks like they MIGHT be meeting Friday morning (agendas = do > change). >=20 > I'm thinking: >=20 > 1) The Sterman-AAA draft: > Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in = RADIUSEXT? >=20 > I believe we have a consensus to proceed with this draft in SIPPING of > RADIUSEXT doesn't want to take the lead. I would propose that the work = be > jointly reviewed. >=20 > 2) The RADIUS Accounting draft: > Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in=20 > RADIUSEXT?=20 I think what is more important for the RADIUS work is to find some folks who are willing to get the work done. Wishing & hoping that the work is done (by someone else) is not a good solution. thanks, John _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 22 04:31:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA28817 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACEOm-0002wG-Id for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:31:20 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9M8VKAc011295 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:31:20 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACEOm-0002w6-FC for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:31:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA28807 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACEOj-00020a-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:31:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACEOj-00020X-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:31:17 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACEOV-0002qw-5p; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:31:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACENy-0002i6-Pl for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:30:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA28774 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACENv-0001zk-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:30:27 -0400 Received: from [63.113.44.69] (helo=mail3.dynamicsoft.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACENu-0001yl-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:30:26 -0400 Received: from dynamicsoft.com ([63.113.46.14]) by mail3.dynamicsoft.com (8.12.8/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h9M8U1ca003581 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3F964004.4010409@dynamicsoft.com> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 04:29:56 -0400 From: Jonathan Rosenberg Organization: dynamicsoft User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sipping@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] app interaction framework: path forward? Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, I've submitted an update to the app interaction framework. Until it appears in the archives, you can pick it up as: http://www.jdrosen.net/papers/draft-ietf-sipping-app-interaction-framework-00.txt This represents a pretty substantial change since the last version. Based on list discussions and input from a number of people, the draft proposes a compromise position around carrying DTMF which I am hoping we can move forward with. The essence of the proposal is that it explicitly recogznies two different models - presentation capable user interfaces, such as html/wml/voicexml that have a presentation component, and presentation free user interfaces, such as kpml, that don't. For the latter, the idea is that the application will issue a SUBSCRIBE request, on a new dialog, towards the UA (using the GRUU). The body of the SUBSCRIBE contains the KPML. the NOTIFY messages contain information on what keys were pressed. For presentation aware URI, the application will send the UA a REFER request, sent on a separate dialog, to the GRUU for the user. The Refer-To header field contains an HTTP URI pointing to the markup to fetch. Once fetched, its normal HTTP operations of posting data and getting a new document. As a consequence of this, there is no longer an App-Info header field. I think thats a good thing. It allows for an application to push UI components to the UA at any time, without needing to piggyback ontop of messages in the context of the original dialog. The document is a bit rough around the edges, but it conveys this proposal in some detail. Once we have consensus around it, I can fill in the missing details in the draft (examples and the sip event package). Thanks, Jonathan R. -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 600 Lanidex Plaza Chief Technology Officer Parsippany, NJ 07054-2711 dynamicsoft jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (973) 952-5050 http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (973) 952-5000 http://www.dynamicsoft.com _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 22 10:30:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA11864 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:30:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACK0A-0005Gy-2G for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:30:18 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9MEUHuJ020262 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:30:17 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACK09-0005Gj-RX for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:30:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA11808 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACK07-0005zK-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:30:15 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACK06-0005zG-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:30:15 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACJzx-0005Ay-Rw; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:30:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACJzj-000561-8o for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:29:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA11783 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACJzg-0005ye-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:29:48 -0400 Received: from [63.110.3.64] (helo=dyn-tx-arch-crash.dfw.dynamicsoft.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACJzf-0005xr-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:29:47 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by dyn-tx-arch-crash.dfw.dynamicsoft.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9METGd16207 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:29:16 -0500 From: Robert Sparks To: sipping@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-kWCkslnj1rUVnzREj52D" Message-Id: <1066832955.937.27.camel@RjS.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:29:15 -0500 Subject: [Sipping] [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-sparks-sipping-load-00.txt] Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --=-kWCkslnj1rUVnzREj52D Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Forwarded Message----- > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-sparks-sipping-load-00.txt > Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:43:37 -0400 > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : SIP Load Management > Author(s) : R. Sparks > Filename : draft-sparks-sipping-load-00.txt > Pages : 8 > Date : 2003-10-20 > > As deployments of services based on the Session Initiation Protocol > increase in scope, managing load across the systems providing their > services becomes increasingly important. This document looks at > generic load management requirements and the tools to address them > currently available in the protocol. Potential new tools to better > meet the requirements are proposed. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sparks-sipping-load-00.txt > > To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to > ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username > "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, > type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-sparks-sipping-load-00.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-sparks-sipping-load-00.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > --=-kWCkslnj1rUVnzREj52D Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-20145042.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-sparks-sipping-load-00.txt --=-kWCkslnj1rUVnzREj52D Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-sparks-sipping-load-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --=-kWCkslnj1rUVnzREj52D-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 22 13:07:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA18000 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:07:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACMS1-0004YZ-0L for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:07:13 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9MH7Ctf017501 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:07:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACMS0-0004YC-EI for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:07:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA17957 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACMRy-000036-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:07:10 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACMRy-000033-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:07:10 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACMRq-0004Tp-6f; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:07:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACMR7-0004Ok-1T for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:06:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA17915 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACMR5-00002J-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:06:15 -0400 Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net ([204.127.202.56]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACMR4-00001j-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:06:14 -0400 Received: from pingtel.com (user2.pingtel.com[65.220.123.2]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003102217054301200cf76de> (Authid: dgpetrie); Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:05:43 +0000 Message-ID: <3F96B8FE.A424811C@pingtel.com> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:06:06 -0400 From: "Daniel G. Petrie" Organization: Pingtel Corp. http://www.pingtel.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.8 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "David R. Oran" CC: sipping@ietf.org References: <404733140.1066809745@[10.32.245.146]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] Re: Queries about draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Dave for these really great comments. My comments are below. Dan "David R. Oran" wrote: > Some initial comments and queries on > draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt. In most cases I think there are > easier fixes than the ones you suggest in the document. > > 1. Isn't your "Consultative Transfer to Lost Target" exactly the sort of > problem GRUU fixes? If TT' returns a GRUU in the 200OK contact of the > Invite, the TC just puts this GRUU in the Refer-with-replaces to the TE, > and the TE->TT' Invite is guaranteed to go to the right place. > Yes. Alhough it perhaps was not explicit or clear that is what is intended as the approach proposed in section 3.6 Use a Target URI > > 2. For "Consultative Call Prompting" and other similar advisory notices > about the purpose of a call, just like for email, isn't the "Subject:" > header exactly what's called for? Yes. I unfortunately missed this before I submitted the draft. This helps for prompting, however there is still a need for a symantic purpose which probably does not make sense in the Subject header as the syntax is freeform text. > > > 3. For "Consultative Turned Blind Double Ring" I think we could easily give > the right hint by putting a "Reason: replacement dialog coming" in the > reason header of the CANCEL. This is exactly the sort of thing the reason > header was created for. > Yes. This is an excellent solution to the approach indicated in section 3.2. Adding an extension to the Reason header to contain the associated dialog information would be useful as well. > > 4. "Coerce Gateway Hairpins" is the first of these scenarios for which > reasonably obvious use of existing protocol features doesn't seem to hold a > solution. I have a suggestion though, which might have wider applicability, > and now that we have GRUUs may be just the ticket. Define a new header > field called "Dialog Affinity: ". The semantics would be for the > proxy in the destination user's domain to attempt if possible to route the > request to the same UA (in this case gateway) as is indicated by the > corresponding Contact: address of the referenced GRUU. Finer granularity to > the trunk level could be achieved if the subject gateway manufactured GRUUs > which contained grid values identifying the appropriate trunk. > This is a little different from how GRUUs are to be used elsewhere. Effectively the dialog affinity GRUU is more of a routing URI as it is not the final distination. The transfer target is URI (e.g. dialed digits part of the URI initicating the transfer target). So just to explore this a little further and make sure I understand what you mean: The gateway provides a dialog affinity GRUU for every call in or out of the gateway. Should the other end of the dialog decide to do a transfer it copies the dialog affinity GRUU into the consultative INVITE. The URI cannot change from what is done today as the URI contains the transfer target which the dialog affinity GRUU could not have contained. The proxy(s)/location server(s) do a kind of loose route with the dialog affinity GRUU (or perhaps the transferor does the loose route?)? This avoids the normal routing decisions made by the proxy(s)/location server(s) which might send it to a different gateway. I think that the proxy(s)/location servers need to be aware of the dialog affinity GRUU as the location server(s) may still need to perform transformations on the target URI (e.g. add/remove digit prefixes, etc.). I am not sure the loose route can work as it is not clear when or which location server (where there are multiple that transform the URI) should insert the loose route. > > 5. For "Consultative Turned Blind Gateway Glare" I don't see how we could > ever fix that, given the inherent glare scenarios present on the PSTN due > to the single TDM channel mapping property of calls. The entire SIP > architecture exploits the ability to have parallel and overlapping dialogs > to the same destination. I think that you can fix it if the gateway disallows consultative transfer. In the blind transfer case, there are no overlapping dialogs unless someone is play more than one of the three roles in transfer (e.g. transferee is the transfer target). In that case it is reasonable for the transfer to fail or to land on a different target. If there were multuple targets e.g. boss/admin or user/voicemail, this is probably desirable anyway. I think it may be possible to fix the consultative case if the gateway requires that it stay pure consultative. The gateway can probably not put the tranfer on to the non-SIP side. However it could handle the overlapping dialogs for the consultation and target dialogs to the transfer target and associate the two IP media streams to a single call leg out the non-SIP side. > > > Dave. > > ------------------------ > David R. Oran > Cisco Systems > 7 Ladyslipper Lane > Acton, MA 01720 > Office: +1 978 264 2048 > VoIP: +1 408 571 4576 > Email: oran@cisco.com _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 22 21:36:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA12574 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACUOa-00021o-Et for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9N1aCqK007782 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACUOa-00021N-69 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA12559 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACUOX-0006Wh-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACUOW-0006Wd-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACUOQ-0001wc-0G; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACUNg-0001da-4L for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:35:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA12529 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:35:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACUNd-0006W4-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:35:13 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACUNc-0006Vl-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:35:12 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Oct 2003 18:35:44 -0700 Received: from mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com [171.71.163.15]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9N1YfQY009577; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (sjc-vpn3-725.cisco.com [10.21.66.213]) by mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id AJG57946; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:34:39 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:53:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [Sipping] Describing dial tone and such using MIDI From: Cullen Jennings To: Eric Burger , sipping CC: David Bryan Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F681A@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 10/21/03 3:21 AM, "Eric Burger" wrote: > Looks good. However, I question saying that the MIDI body is a cid:. Why not > just say it's a URI reference, which could be a cid:? Oops - my mess up - that's what I meant to do. > > By the way -- the country reference is (a) invaluable and (b) a lot of work. > Excellent job! Thanks - I hoped that if nothing else came out of this draft that would provide useful in a machine passable form. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Cullen Jennings [mailto:fluffy@cisco.com] >> Sent: Sat, October 18, 2003 12:15 PM >> To: 'sipping' >> Cc: Cullen Jennings; David Bryan >> Subject: [Sipping] Describing dial tone and such using MIDI >> >> >> >> David Bryan and I have submitted a draft on describing PSTN >> tones such as >> dialtone using MIDI - until it shows up in the drafts >> directory, you can >> find it at: >> >> http://www.employees.org/~fluffy/ietf/draft-bryan-sipping-midi-00.txt >> >> http://www.employees.org/~fluffy/ietf/draft-bryan-sipping-midi-00.html >> >> Cullen >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping >> This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP >> Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip >> Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 22 21:36:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA12575 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACUOa-00021n-EM for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9N1aCMC007785 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACUOa-00021M-5g for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA12561 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACUOX-0006Wk-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACUOW-0006We-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACUOQ-0001wm-Qx; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:36:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACUNi-0001ep-GM for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:35:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA12532 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:35:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACUNf-0006WA-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:35:15 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACUNd-0006Vm-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:35:15 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Oct 2003 18:32:03 -0700 Received: from mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com [171.71.163.15]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9N1YgQY009587; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:34:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (sjc-vpn3-725.cisco.com [10.21.66.213]) by mira-sjc5-e.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id AJG57948; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:34:40 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.1.2418 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:55:18 -0700 Subject: Re: [Sipping] Describing dial tone and such using MIDI From: Cullen Jennings To: Eric Burger , sipping CC: David Bryan Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F681A@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 10/21/03 3:21 AM, "Eric Burger" wrote: > Looks good. However, I question saying that the MIDI body is a cid:. Why not > just say it's a URI reference, which could be a cid:? Oops - good point - will fix. > > By the way -- the country reference is (a) invaluable and (b) a lot of work. > Excellent job! > Thank you. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Cullen Jennings [mailto:fluffy@cisco.com] >> Sent: Sat, October 18, 2003 12:15 PM >> To: 'sipping' >> Cc: Cullen Jennings; David Bryan >> Subject: [Sipping] Describing dial tone and such using MIDI >> >> >> >> David Bryan and I have submitted a draft on describing PSTN >> tones such as >> dialtone using MIDI - until it shows up in the drafts >> directory, you can >> find it at: >> >> http://www.employees.org/~fluffy/ietf/draft-bryan-sipping-midi-00.txt >> >> http://www.employees.org/~fluffy/ietf/draft-bryan-sipping-midi-00.html >> >> Cullen >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping >> This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP >> Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip >> Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 09:10:42 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17137 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:10:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfEG-0005ke-67 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:10:22 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NDAGq3022102 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:10:16 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfEG-0005kP-2C for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:10:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17102 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:10:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfEE-0006ws-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:10:14 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfEE-0006wo-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:10:14 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfE2-0005iC-OU; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:10:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfDf-0005fh-MW for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:09:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17063 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfDe-0006wJ-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:09:38 -0400 Received: from dgesmtp01.wcom.com ([199.249.16.16]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfDd-0006vm-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:09:37 -0400 Received: from pmismtp05.wcomnet.com ([166.38.62.53]) by firewall.wcom.com (Iplanet MTA 5.2) with ESMTP id <0HN700265OEMP1@firewall.wcom.com> for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:06:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pmismtp05.wcomnet.com by pmismtp05.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with SMTP id <0HN700401OEIA2@pmismtp05.wcomnet.com>; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:06:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from hsinnreich2 ([166.35.136.79]) by pmismtp05.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HN70038HOEAE6@pmismtp05.wcomnet.com>; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:06:21 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:06:11 -0500 From: Henry Sinnreich Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting In-reply-to: To: john.loughney@nokia.com, dean.willis@softarmor.com, sipping@ietf.org Cc: aboba@internaut.com Message-id: <0HN70038XOEKE6@pmismtp05.wcomnet.com> Organization: WorldCom, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5329 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thread-index: AcOXTPb57eSZOdycSjGD45yqpqGzugBIB6swAB9AxrA= Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is true and regrettable that though practically all deployed and soon to deploy mobile services use RADIUS, there is a lack of volunteers to write the required documents for AAA-SIP. This is however orthogonal to the merits of RADIUS vs. DIAMETER that has been discussed to saturation on this list. Service providers have clearly stated their desire for SIP-RADIUS to be properly documented. Maybe the existing specs are just good enough - as attested by reported deployments - so people are just using -sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt and keep working on their the day jobs? Thanks, Henry -----Original Message----- From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of john.loughney@nokia.com Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:25 AM To: dean.willis@softarmor.com; sipping@ietf.org Cc: aboba@internaut.com Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting Hi Dean, Some very quick comments: > Let's revisit where we are on the SIP-AAA work. Or at least where I THINK we > are, so please help me get this right. > > 1) We have a requirements draft. > http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-ietf-sipping-aaa-req-03.txt > > 2) We have a RADIUS draft that is VERY expired, but variations are widely implemented: > http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt > > 3) There's a DIAMETER draft: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-aaa-diameter-sip-app-00.txt The Diameter work has some constituency (at least 3GPP) and is chartered in the AAA. Work is well underway. We are happy to get input from the SIP community on this draft. However, I think RADIUS extensions for SIP is a different issue than this. > 4) There's a RADIUS Accounting draft from Henning et al, which I seem to > have misplaced the text of. > > We seem to have a consensus to do at least some work in standardizing RADIUS > usage. It appears that the likeliest way forward is to conclude on the > Sterman draft. We also seem to have an interest (if not consensus yet) in > doing something to help with accounting for SIP operations using RADIUS. > > Bernard Aboba, chairing the RADIUSEXT work, would like to know what if > anything we would like RADIUSEXT to include on their agenda for the November > meeting. It looks like they MIGHT be meeting Friday morning (agendas do > change). > > I'm thinking: > > 1) The Sterman-AAA draft: > Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in RADIUSEXT? > > I believe we have a consensus to proceed with this draft in SIPPING of > RADIUSEXT doesn't want to take the lead. I would propose that the work be > jointly reviewed. > > 2) The RADIUS Accounting draft: > Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in > RADIUSEXT? I think what is more important for the RADIUS work is to find some folks who are willing to get the work done. Wishing & hoping that the work is done (by someone else) is not a good solution. thanks, John _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 09:19:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17713 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfMm-0007bH-Ex for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:19:04 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NDJ40M029209 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:19:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfMm-0007b0-9E for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:19:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17658 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfMk-00076k-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:19:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfMj-00076h-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:19:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfMk-0007Zl-D4; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:19:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfM6-0007Vo-9X for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:18:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17629 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfM4-00076B-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:18:20 -0400 Received: from harjus.tutpro.com ([192.98.100.3] ident=mail) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfM4-000768-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:18:20 -0400 Received: from jh by harjus.tutpro.com with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ACfLt-0003QO-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:18:09 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16279.54545.633351.991716@harjus.tutpro.com> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:18:09 +0300 To: Henry Sinnreich Cc: john.loughney@nokia.com, dean.willis@softarmor.com, sipping@ietf.org, aboba@internaut.com Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting In-Reply-To: <0HN70038XOEKE6@pmismtp05.wcomnet.com> References: <0HN70038XOEKE6@pmismtp05.wcomnet.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under Emacs 21.2.1 From: Juha Heinanen Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henry Sinnreich writes: > Maybe the > existing specs are just good enough - as attested by reported deployments - > so people are just using -sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt and keep working on their > the day jobs? i believe that that is largely the case. i rather write new code than re-document existing one. one note about radius accounting draft. i don't remember if it included accounting of forwarded calls (where, by whom and why). if not, then those should be added if the document ever gets progressed. -- juha _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 09:23:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18133 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:23:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfQp-0000Q8-QX for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:23:19 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NDNFtf001610 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:23:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfQp-0000Pt-Lf for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:23:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18047 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:23:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfQn-0007CQ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:23:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfQb-0007CH-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:23:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfQb-0000FS-9y; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:23:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfQF-00009o-IK for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:22:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18020 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfQD-0007Bp-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:22:37 -0400 Received: from mta4.wss.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.85.35]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfQD-0007BZ-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:22:37 -0400 Received: from BARUCHLAPTOP (212.179.242.23) by mta4.wss.scd.yahoo.com (7.0.016) (authenticated as baruch@tekhelet.com) id 3F61639E01132BA8; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:21:58 -0700 From: "Baruch Sterman" To: Cc: Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:21:43 +0200 Message-ID: <002001c39968$9cebe660$6a01a8c0@BARUCHLAPTOP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <0HN70038XOEKE6@pmismtp05.wcomnet.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I won't be able to make the meeting, but please let me know what I can do to push this forward. -----Original Message----- From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Henry Sinnreich Sent: 23 October 2003 15:06 To: john.loughney@nokia.com; dean.willis@softarmor.com; sipping@ietf.org Cc: aboba@internaut.com Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting It is true and regrettable that though practically all deployed and soon to deploy mobile services use RADIUS, there is a lack of volunteers to write the required documents for AAA-SIP. This is however orthogonal to the merits of RADIUS vs. DIAMETER that has been discussed to saturation on this list. Service providers have clearly stated their desire for SIP-RADIUS to be properly documented. Maybe the existing specs are just good enough - as attested by reported deployments - so people are just using -sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt and keep working on their the day jobs? Thanks, Henry -----Original Message----- From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of john.loughney@nokia.com Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:25 AM To: dean.willis@softarmor.com; sipping@ietf.org Cc: aboba@internaut.com Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting Hi Dean, Some very quick comments: > Let's revisit where we are on the SIP-AAA work. Or at least where I > THINK we > are, so please help me get this right. > > 1) We have a requirements draft. > http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-ietf-sipping-aaa-req-03.txt > > 2) We have a RADIUS draft that is VERY expired, but variations are > widely implemented: > http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt > > 3) There's a DIAMETER draft: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-aaa-diameter-sip-app-00 > .txt The Diameter work has some constituency (at least 3GPP) and is chartered in the AAA. Work is well underway. We are happy to get input from the SIP community on this draft. However, I think RADIUS extensions for SIP is a different issue than this. > 4) There's a RADIUS Accounting draft from Henning et al, which I seem > to have misplaced the text of. > > We seem to have a consensus to do at least some work in standardizing RADIUS > usage. It appears that the likeliest way forward is to conclude on the > Sterman draft. We also seem to have an interest (if not consensus yet) > in doing something to help with accounting for SIP operations using > RADIUS. > > Bernard Aboba, chairing the RADIUSEXT work, would like to know what if > anything we would like RADIUSEXT to include on their agenda for the November > meeting. It looks like they MIGHT be meeting Friday morning (agendas > do change). > > I'm thinking: > > 1) The Sterman-AAA draft: > Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in > RADIUSEXT? > > I believe we have a consensus to proceed with this draft in SIPPING of > RADIUSEXT doesn't want to take the lead. I would propose that the work > be jointly reviewed. > > 2) The RADIUS Accounting draft: > Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in > RADIUSEXT? I think what is more important for the RADIUS work is to find some folks who are willing to get the work done. Wishing & hoping that the work is done (by someone else) is not a good solution. thanks, John _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 09:32:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18823 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfZN-00026g-B9 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:32:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NDW5wt008092 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:32:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfZL-00024v-OP for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:32:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18758 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfZJ-0007Jc-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:32:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfZJ-0007JZ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:32:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfZJ-00021U-An; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:32:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfYk-0001vX-IC for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:31:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18690 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:31:15 -0400 (EDT) From: john.loughney@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfYi-0007IR-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:31:24 -0400 Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com ([131.228.20.21]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfYC-0007H5-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:31:24 -0400 Received: from esvir05nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir05nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.37]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id h9NDUBI23377 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:30:12 +0300 (EET DST) Received: from esebh002.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir05nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:30:10 +0300 Received: from esebe012.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.51]) by esebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:30:09 +0300 Received: from esebe023.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.115]) by esebe012.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:30:08 +0300 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:30:08 +0300 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting Thread-Index: AcOXTPb57eSZOdycSjGD45yqpqGzugBIB6swAB9AxrAAH8IacA== To: , , Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Oct 2003 13:30:08.0644 (UTC) FILETIME=[C709F440:01C39969] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Henry, > It is true and regrettable that though practically all deployed and = soon to > deploy mobile services use RADIUS, there is a lack of volunteers to = write > the required documents for AAA-SIP. If vendors or carriers feel this is an important, they should provide resources to get it standardized. > This is however orthogonal to the merits of RADIUS vs. DIAMETER that = has > been discussed to saturation on this list. Service providers have = clearly > stated their desire for SIP-RADIUS to be properly documented. Maybe = the > existing specs are just good enough - as attested by reported = deployments - > so people are just using -sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt and keep working on = their > the day jobs? Then the IETF doesn't need to do anything, I guess. If this is really=20 important to service providers, they'd demand their vendors provide an interoperable spec. If vendors were motivated, I am sure they could allocate someone to get it done. If noone wants to put any effort to get it done, I sure don't want to waste my time. I don't think that the IETF has spare resources ... John _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 09:51:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21198 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfrw-0005O9-D5 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:51:17 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NDpGZg020711 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:51:16 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfrw-0005Ny-7h for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:51:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21123 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:51:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfru-0000Cp-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:51:14 -0400 Received: from sausage.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfrr-0000Cf-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:51:13 -0400 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ACfqA-0000HI-6e for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:49:30 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfpl-0004yQ-I1; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:49:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfpC-0004tv-QP for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:48:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20779 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfpA-00004u-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:48:24 -0400 Received: from dgesmtp01.wcom.com ([199.249.16.16]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfp9-00003l-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:48:24 -0400 Received: from pmismtp06.wcomnet.com ([166.38.62.54]) by firewall.wcom.com (Iplanet MTA 5.2) with ESMTP id <0HN700EDMQ8C8B@firewall.wcom.com> for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:45:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pmismtp06.wcomnet.com by pmismtp06.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with SMTP id <0HN700G01Q89BQ@pmismtp06.wcomnet.com>; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:45:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from hsinnreich2 ([166.35.136.79]) by pmismtp06.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HN700F5YQ87GL@pmismtp06.wcomnet.com>; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:45:46 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:45:44 -0500 From: Henry Sinnreich Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting In-reply-to: <002001c39968$9cebe660$6a01a8c0@BARUCHLAPTOP> To: "'Baruch Sterman'" Cc: aboba@internaut.com, sipping@ietf.org Message-id: <0HN700F64Q8AGL@pmismtp06.wcomnet.com> Organization: WorldCom, Inc. MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5329 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thread-index: AcOZaNjV4owQDNNoR+SJYBa14Z0XoAAAWKiw Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I won't be able to make the meeting, >but please let me know what I can do to push this forward. Baruch, Your contribution would be really appreciated! Could you review your I-D and resubmit with updates as required as version .01? Incidentally, I see the new 802.x ISP settlement projects are based on RADIUS and imply SIP as well. The discussions on the list do not require your presence and those of us interested in this work and present can vote in the next meeting. Will this work? Thanks, Henry Henry Sinnreich MCI 400 International Parkway Richardson, Texas 75081 USA Have you disconnected the PBX? -----Original Message----- From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Baruch Sterman Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 8:22 AM To: sipping@ietf.org Cc: aboba@internaut.com Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting I won't be able to make the meeting, but please let me know what I can do to push this forward. -----Original Message----- From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Henry Sinnreich Sent: 23 October 2003 15:06 To: john.loughney@nokia.com; dean.willis@softarmor.com; sipping@ietf.org Cc: aboba@internaut.com Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting It is true and regrettable that though practically all deployed and soon to deploy mobile services use RADIUS, there is a lack of volunteers to write the required documents for AAA-SIP. This is however orthogonal to the merits of RADIUS vs. DIAMETER that has been discussed to saturation on this list. Service providers have clearly stated their desire for SIP-RADIUS to be properly documented. Maybe the existing specs are just good enough - as attested by reported deployments - so people are just using -sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt and keep working on their the day jobs? Thanks, Henry -----Original Message----- From: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of john.loughney@nokia.com Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:25 AM To: dean.willis@softarmor.com; sipping@ietf.org Cc: aboba@internaut.com Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting Hi Dean, Some very quick comments: > Let's revisit where we are on the SIP-AAA work. Or at least where I > THINK we > are, so please help me get this right. > > 1) We have a requirements draft. > http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-ietf-sipping-aaa-req-03.txt > > 2) We have a RADIUS draft that is VERY expired, but variations are > widely implemented: > http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt > > 3) There's a DIAMETER draft: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-aaa-diameter-sip-app-00 > .txt The Diameter work has some constituency (at least 3GPP) and is chartered in the AAA. Work is well underway. We are happy to get input from the SIP community on this draft. However, I think RADIUS extensions for SIP is a different issue than this. > 4) There's a RADIUS Accounting draft from Henning et al, which I seem > to have misplaced the text of. > > We seem to have a consensus to do at least some work in standardizing RADIUS > usage. It appears that the likeliest way forward is to conclude on the > Sterman draft. We also seem to have an interest (if not consensus yet) > in doing something to help with accounting for SIP operations using > RADIUS. > > Bernard Aboba, chairing the RADIUSEXT work, would like to know what if > anything we would like RADIUSEXT to include on their agenda for the November > meeting. It looks like they MIGHT be meeting Friday morning (agendas > do change). > > I'm thinking: > > 1) The Sterman-AAA draft: > Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in > RADIUSEXT? > > I believe we have a consensus to proceed with this draft in SIPPING of > RADIUSEXT doesn't want to take the lead. I would propose that the work > be jointly reviewed. > > 2) The RADIUS Accounting draft: > Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in > RADIUSEXT? I think what is more important for the RADIUS work is to find some folks who are willing to get the work done. Wishing & hoping that the work is done (by someone else) is not a good solution. thanks, John _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 09:54:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21483 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfuf-0005ow-8U for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:54:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NDs5HF022363 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:54:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfuf-0005oS-4c for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:54:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21467 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:53:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfud-0000Ib-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:54:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfuc-0000IV-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:54:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfuc-0005mZ-Ux; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:54:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfu2-0005h8-R6 for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:53:26 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21444; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:53:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310231353.JAA21444@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: sipping@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:53:15 -0400 Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-e2m-sec-reqs-00.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Proposal Investigation Working Group of the IETF. Title : Requirements for End-to-middle Security for the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Author(s) : K. Ono, S. Tachimoto Filename : draft-ietf-sipping-e2m-sec-reqs-00.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2003-10-23 A SIP UA does not always trust all proxy servers in a request path to decide whether to inspect the message bodies and/or headers contained in a message. The UA might want to protect the message bodies and/or headers from proxy servers excluding the particular proxy that provides some features based on reading them. This situation requires a mechanism for securing information passed between the UA and an intermediary proxy, also called A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-e2m-sec-reqs-00.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sipping-e2m-sec-reqs-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-e2m-sec-reqs-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-23101511.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-e2m-sec-reqs-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-sipping-e2m-sec-reqs-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-23101511.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 09:54:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21482 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:54:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfuf-0005oc-5E for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:54:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NDs5mw022346 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:54:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfuf-0005oL-0c for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:54:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21464 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfuc-0000IZ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:54:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfuc-0000IU-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:54:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfuc-0005m6-1U; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:54:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACftt-0005g2-4n for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:53:17 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21428; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:53:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310231353.JAA21428@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: sipping@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:53:05 -0400 Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-app-interaction-framework-00.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Proposal Investigation Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Framework for Application Interaction in the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Author(s) : J. Rosenberg Filename : draft-ietf-sipping-app-interaction-framework-00.txt Pages : 30 Date : 2003-10-22 This document describes a framework and requirements for the interaction between users and Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) based applications. By interacting with applications, users can guide the way in which they operate. The focus of this framework is stimulus signaling, which allows a user agent to interact with an application without knowledge of the semantics of that application. Stimulus signaling can occur to a user interface running locally with the client, or to a remote user interface, through media streams. Stimulus signaling encompasses a wide range of mechanisms, ranging from clicking on hyperlinks, to pressing buttons, to traditional Dual Tone Multi Frequency (DTMF) input. In all cases, stimulus signaling is supported through the use of markup languages, which play a key role in this framework. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-app-interaction-framework-00.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sipping-app-interaction-framework-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-app-interaction-framework-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-23101341.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-app-interaction-framework-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-sipping-app-interaction-framework-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-23101341.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 11:33:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29566 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:33:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AChSX-0007yR-3Z for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:33:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NFX9rY030639 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:33:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AChSW-0007y5-GH for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:33:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29503 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AChSV-0002US-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:33:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AChSU-0002UP-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:33:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AChSQ-0007vW-Cx; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:33:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AChRo-0007pI-MX for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:32:24 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29424; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:32:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310231532.LAA29424@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: sipping@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:32:13 -0400 Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-manyfolks-sipping-toip-00.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Framework of requirements for real-time text conversation using SIP Author(s) : G. Hellstrom, R. Roy Filename : draft-manyfolks-sipping-toip-00.txt Pages : 33 Date : 2003-10-23 This document provides the framework of requirements for text conversation with real time character-by-character interactive flow over the IP network using the Session Initiation Protocol. The requirements for general real-time text-over-IP telephony, point-to- point and conference calls, transcoding, relay services, user mobility, interworking between text-over-IP telephony and existing text-telephony, and some special features including instant messaging have been described. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-manyfolks-sipping-toip-00.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-manyfolks-sipping-toip-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-manyfolks-sipping-toip-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-23110639.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-manyfolks-sipping-toip-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-manyfolks-sipping-toip-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-23110639.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 11:38:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA00112 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:38:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AChXM-00017c-QT for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:38:17 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NFc8c0004258 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:38:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AChXL-00016E-UM for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:38:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA00022 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:37:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AChXK-0002c6-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:38:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AChXK-0002c3-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:38:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AChXG-0000wJ-Rv; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:38:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AChWj-0000kc-S8 for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:37:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29954 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:37:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AChWi-0002av-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:37:28 -0400 Received: from mail4.telekom.de ([195.243.210.197]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AChWh-0002a8-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:37:28 -0400 Received: from g8pbr.blf01.telekom.de by mail2.dmz.telekom.de with ESMTP; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:36:47 +0200 Received: by G8PBR.blf01.telekom.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:36:51 +0200 Message-Id: <43240544763FB8479F1529372F6197CF053CCA24@G8PQC.blf01.telekom.de> From: "Liess, Laura" To: john.loughney@nokia.com, aboba@internaut.com, dean.willis@softarmor.com, baruch@tekhelet.com, Henry.Sinnreich@mci.com Cc: sipping@ietf.org Subject: AW: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:36:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , John, >If vendors or carriers feel this is an important, they should provide >resources to get it standardized. It's my opinion, too. We feel this is important for carriers, so we will provide the ressources to get it standardized. We will also attend the meeting. (We currently had a side e-mail discussion with Dean on this issue.) We just have to clarify what is to be done. Laura Deutsche Telekom/T-Systems > >> This is however orthogonal to the merits of RADIUS vs. >DIAMETER that has >> been discussed to saturation on this list. Service providers >have clearly >> stated their desire for SIP-RADIUS to be properly >documented. Maybe the >> existing specs are just good enough - as attested by >reported deployments - >> so people are just using -sterman-aaa-sip-00.txt and keep >working on their >> the day jobs? > >Then the IETF doesn't need to do anything, I guess. If this is really >important to service providers, they'd demand their vendors provide >an interoperable spec. If vendors were motivated, I am sure they >could allocate someone to get it done. If noone wants to put >any effort >to get it done, I sure don't want to waste my time. I don't think that >the IETF has spare resources ... > >John > >_______________________________________________ >Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping >This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP >Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip >Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 13:36:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA08516 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:36:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACjNi-0007HH-Pf for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:36:19 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NHaIIu027971 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:36:18 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACjNi-0007H4-Ky for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:36:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA08496 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACjNd-0005KR-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:36:13 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACjNc-0005KO-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:36:12 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACjNR-0007Br-JD; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:36:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACjNP-0007B5-4U for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:35:59 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA08493 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:35:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACjNM-0005KB-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:35:56 -0400 Received: from h65s138a81n47.user.nortelnetworks.com ([47.81.138.65] helo=zsc3s004.nortelnetworks.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACjNL-0005JW-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:35:56 -0400 Received: from zsc3c028.us.nortel.com (zsc3c028.us.nortel.com [47.81.138.28]) by zsc3s004.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h9NHYls17757; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by zsc3c028.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:34:48 -0700 Message-ID: <2F1FC1DEA077D5119FAD00508BCFD6D20BBD8306@zsc3c030.us.nortel.com> From: "Francois Audet" To: "'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'" , "'Gonzalo Camarillo'" , "'sipping@ietf.org'" Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:34:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C3998B.F3DB817E" Subject: [Sipping] draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-02.tx t Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3998B.F3DB817E Content-Type: text/plain Jonathan, Is there any plan to update the ICE draft with the changes made by Gonzallo and yourself to the draft-camarill-mmusic-alt-02? In particular: 1 - In ICE, do you intend to keep the address priority based on the qvalue (similar to alt-01), or do you intend to go with the simple prioritized list approach as per alt-02? In both cases, I'm assuming you are keeping the alt parameter. 2 - Is the intent that IPv6 addresses in SDP be expressed in ICE using the IPV format, or does it follow the IPv4 format as per the current example in ICE? Section 5.3 of ICE talks briefly about IPv6 addresses, but there is no example on how it would be expressed. I believe that the intent is to use the IPV format in ICE for IPv6 addresses. Is this accurate? 3 - References: ICE should refer to alt-2 not alt-1 in the reference. 4 - Is the intent that STUN requests in ICE be receivable only on IPv4 addresses? This would assume that IPv6 addresses are always reachable. I believe this is the intent. In other words, to take the example A's offer in ICE section 9.1.1 (Figure 5), if there was also an IPv6 address, which of the following SDP (A, B or C) would be correct: A: Using IPV, but keeping the qvalue for IPv4 v=0 o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com s= t=0 0 a=group:IPV 1 2 m=audio 6886 RTP/AVP 0 c=IN IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24 a=mid:1 m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0 c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10 a=alt:1 1.0 : user 9kksj== 10.0.1.1 1010 a=alt:2 0.8 : user1 9kksk== 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990 a=alt:3 0.4 : user2 9kksl== 192.0.2.10 8076 a=mid:2 B: Using IPV, using simple ordered list instead of qvalue for IPv4 v=0 o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com s= t=0 0 a=group:IPV 1 2 m=audio 6886 RTP/AVP 0 c=IN IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24 a=mid:1 m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0 c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10 a=alt:1 user 9kksj== 10.0.1.1 1010 a=alt:2 user1 9kksk== 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990 a=alt:3 user2 9kksl== 192.0.2.10 8076 a=mid:2 C: As per current ICE draft. This implies that we would be running a STUN server on the IPv6 address as well to check for connectivity. v=0 o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com s= c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10 t=0 0 m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0 a=alt:1 1.0 : user 9kksi = IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24 (note that I've added a=alt:1 0.9 : user0 9kksj== IP 4 10.0.1.1 1010 an IP6 and IP4) a=alt:2 0.8 : user1 9kksk== IP4 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990 a=alt:3 0.4 : user2 9kksl== IP4 192.0.2.10 8076 I think the intent is either A or B. Can you clarify? ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3998B.F3DB817E Content-Type: text/html draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-02.txt

Jonathan,

Is there any plan to update the ICE draft with the changes made by Gonzallo and
yourself to the draft-camarill-mmusic-alt-02?

In particular:

1 - In ICE, do you intend to keep the address priority based on the qvalue (similar
    to alt-01), or do you intend to go with the simple prioritized list approach
    as per alt-02? In both cases, I'm assuming you are keeping the alt parameter.

2 - Is the intent that IPv6 addresses in SDP be expressed in ICE using the IPV
    format, or does it follow the IPv4 format as per the current example in ICE?
    Section 5.3 of ICE talks briefly about IPv6 addresses, but there is no example
    on how it would be expressed. I believe that the intent is to use the IPV format
    in ICE for IPv6 addresses. Is this accurate?

3 - References: ICE should refer to alt-2 not alt-1 in the reference.

4 - Is the intent that STUN requests in ICE be receivable only on IPv4 addresses?
    This would assume that IPv6 addresses are always reachable. I believe this is
    the intent.

In other words, to take the example A's offer in ICE section 9.1.1 (Figure 5),
if there was also an IPv6 address, which of the following SDP (A, B or C) would be
correct:


A: Using IPV, but keeping the qvalue for IPv4

   v=0
   o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com
   s=
   t=0 0
   a=group:IPV 1 2
   m=audio 6886 RTP/AVP 0
   c=IN IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24
   a=mid:1
   m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0
   c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10
   a=alt:1 1.0 : user 9kksj== 10.0.1.1 1010
   a=alt:2 0.8 : user1 9kksk== 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990
   a=alt:3 0.4 : user2 9kksl== 192.0.2.10 8076
   a=mid:2

B: Using IPV, using simple ordered list instead of qvalue for IPv4

   v=0
   o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com
   s=
   t=0 0
   a=group:IPV 1 2
   m=audio 6886 RTP/AVP 0
   c=IN IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24
   a=mid:1
   m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0
   c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10
   a=alt:1 user 9kksj== 10.0.1.1 1010
   a=alt:2 user1 9kksk== 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990
   a=alt:3 user2 9kksl== 192.0.2.10 8076
   a=mid:2

C: As per current ICE draft. This implies that we would be running a STUN server
   on the IPv6 address as well to check for connectivity.

   v=0
   o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com
   s=
   c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10
   t=0 0
   m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0
   a=alt:1 1.0 : user 9kksi = IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24  (note that I've added
   a=alt:1 0.9 : user0 9kksj== IP 4 10.0.1.1 1010             an IP6 and IP4)
   a=alt:2 0.8 : user1 9kksk== IP4 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990
   a=alt:3 0.4 : user2 9kksl== IP4 192.0.2.10 8076

I think the intent is either A or B. Can you clarify?

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3998B.F3DB817E-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 14:02:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA09613 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACjmo-0003zd-Se for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:02:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NI2EsO015343 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:02:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACjmo-0003zO-OX for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:02:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA09563 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACjmm-0005eH-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:02:12 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACjmm-0005eE-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:02:12 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACjmd-0003tk-0B; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:02:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACjlg-0003hl-QZ for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:01:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA09448; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:00:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACjle-0005dC-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:01:02 -0400 Received: from magus.nostrum.com ([208.21.192.130] ident=root) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACjld-0005cv-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:01:01 -0400 Received: from dynamicsoft.com (ben@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by magus.nostrum.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9NI0gF8055971; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:00:51 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from bcampbell@dynamicsoft.com) Message-ID: <3F981735.8050605@dynamicsoft.com> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:00:21 -0500 From: Ben Campbell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sip@ietf.org, "'sipping@ietf.org'" , "'xcon@ietf.org'" , simple@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] Softarmor Site Down Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dean asked me to forward this on to the various lists: Softarmor.com is down due to a hardware failure. Dean is rushing to fix the problem as I write this. This will affect HTTP and email. _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 15:13:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA13918 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACktO-0008I3-9M for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:13:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NJD6tV031861 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:13:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACktO-0008Ho-3i for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:13:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA13819 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACktM-0006ie-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:13:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACktM-0006iY-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:13:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACktJ-0008Cd-Gx; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:13:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACkso-0008A5-CI for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:12:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA13739; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:12:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACksm-0006iC-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:12:28 -0400 Received: from bdsl.66.12.12.130.gte.net ([66.12.12.130] helo=bdsl.greycouncil.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACksm-0006hU-00; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:12:28 -0400 Received: from bdsl.greycouncil.com (bdsl.greycouncil.com [127.0.0.1]) by bdsl.greycouncil.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9NJBew6001569 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:11:40 -0500 Received: (from dwillis@localhost) by bdsl.greycouncil.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NJBe6Q001567; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:11:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: bdsl.greycouncil.com: dwillis set sender to dean.willis@softarmor.com using -f From: Dean Willis To: Ben Campbell Cc: sip@ietf.org, "'sipping@ietf.org'" , "'xcon@ietf.org'" , simple@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <3F981735.8050605@dynamicsoft.com> References: <3F981735.8050605@dynamicsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1066936299.1538.2.camel@bdsl.greycouncil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:11:39 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] Re: [Sip] Softarmor Site Down Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK, we seem to be back up. Apparently, power supplies have an MTBF of exactly 1 day longer than their warranty, with a very narrow standard deviation around that mean. The new one has 3 fans -- I don't know if that means it will last three times as long, or is three times more likely to fail. -- Dean _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 15:47:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16485 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:47:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AClQK-0006Ms-M1 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:47:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NJl8tO024468 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:47:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AClQK-0006MZ-Hs for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:47:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16464 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AClQI-0007UJ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:47:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AClQI-0007UG-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:47:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AClQD-0006Jv-WB; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:47:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AClPU-0006AE-Oq for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:46:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16458 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AClPT-0007U3-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:46:15 -0400 Received: from bdsl.66.12.12.130.gte.net ([66.12.12.130] helo=bdsl.greycouncil.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AClPS-0007To-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 15:46:14 -0400 Received: from bdsl.greycouncil.com (bdsl.greycouncil.com [127.0.0.1]) by bdsl.greycouncil.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9NJjiw6001972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:45:44 -0500 Received: (from dwillis@localhost) by bdsl.greycouncil.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NJjiWq001970; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:45:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: bdsl.greycouncil.com: dwillis set sender to dean.willis@softarmor.com using -f Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting From: Dean Willis To: Henry Sinnreich Cc: "'Baruch Sterman'" , aboba@internaut.com, sipping@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <0HN700F64Q8AGL@pmismtp06.wcomnet.com> References: <0HN700F64Q8AGL@pmismtp06.wcomnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1066938343.1527.38.camel@bdsl.greycouncil.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:45:44 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 08:45, Henry Sinnreich wrote: > > I won't be able to make the meeting, > >but please let me know what I can do to push this forward. > > Baruch, > > Your contribution would be really appreciated! Could you review your I-D and > resubmit with updates as required as version .01? > > Incidentally, I see the new 802.x ISP settlement projects are based on > RADIUS and imply SIP as well. > > The discussions on the list do not require your presence and those of us > interested in this work and present can vote in the next meeting. > > Will this work? It's a good suggestion, but 1) We've missed the cutoff date for IETF 58, and 2) We haven't given Baruch any feedback about updating the draft, at least not any recently. 3) We don't really vote in meetings anyhow -- consensus can readily be determined "on the list". I propose to chat privately with Baruch and others and come back with a proposal for moving forward. -- Dean _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 24 01:12:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA03565 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACuF7-0000LO-TS for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:12:13 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9O5C94c001318 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:12:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACuF7-0000LB-NC for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:12:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA03553 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACuF4-0005US-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:12:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACuF4-0005UP-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:12:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACuEz-0000J6-MG; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:12:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACuE8-00007L-RV for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:11:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA03545 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACuE5-0005UI-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:11:05 -0400 Received: from imr2.ericy.com ([198.24.6.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACuE5-0005Tm-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:11:05 -0400 Received: from eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se (eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.133.51]) by imr2.ericy.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9O5AMO8021500; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:10:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ericsson.com (EFO9N000L5C7100 [153.88.94.28]) by eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id VNP9N8W2; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:09:27 -0500 Message-ID: <3F98B432.8030505@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:10:10 +0300 X-Sybari-Trust: 2047a822 406a040f c001c63b 00000138 From: Gonzalo Camarillo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francois Audet CC: "'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'" , "'Gonzalo Camarillo'" , "'sipping@ietf.org'" References: <2F1FC1DEA077D5119FAD00508BCFD6D20BBD8306@zsc3c030.us.nortel.com> In-Reply-To: <2F1FC1DEA077D5119FAD00508BCFD6D20BBD8306@zsc3c030.us.nortel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] Re: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-02.tx t Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Francois, > 1 - In ICE, do you intend to keep the address priority based on the > qvalue (similar > to alt-01), or do you intend to go with the simple prioritized list > approach > as per alt-02? In both cases, I'm assuming you are keeping the alt > parameter. Within an m line, we intend to use the alt lines defined in ICE using qvalues. > 2 - Is the intent that IPv6 addresses in SDP be expressed in ICE using > the IPV > format, or does it follow the IPv4 format as per the current example > in ICE? The IPv6 addresses will use the IPV format. > Section 5.3 of ICE talks briefly about IPv6 addresses, but there is > no example > on how it would be expressed. I believe that the intent is to use > the IPV format > in ICE for IPv6 addresses. Is this accurate? Yes. > 3 - References: ICE should refer to alt-2 not alt-1 in the reference. > > 4 - Is the intent that STUN requests in ICE be receivable only on IPv4 > addresses? > This would assume that IPv6 addresses are always reachable. I > believe this is > the intent. If you added alt lines to an IPv6 line, you could run STUN on it... the idea is presenting user agents with an IPv6 and an IPv4 address for a stream. Once the UA picks up a media line (corresponding to an address), it does whatever that media line tells it to do (e.g, running STUN). > In other words, to take the example A's offer in ICE section 9.1.1 > (Figure 5), > if there was also an IPv6 address, which of the following SDP (A, B or > C) would be > correct: Option A would be correct (use IPV and alt lines with qvalues). We actually have a draft that contains a similar example (I believe Jonathan submitted before the cut-off...). This is an SDP taken from that draft: v=0 o=bob 280744730 28977631 IN IP6 host.example.com s= t=0 0 a=group:IPV 1 2 m=audio 6886 RTP/AVP 0 c=IN IP6 2001:056D::112E:144A:1E24 a=mid:1 m=audio 22334 RTP/AVP 0 c=IN IP4 192.0.0.1 a=mid:2 a=alt:1 1.0 : user 9kksj== 192.0.0.1 22334 Thanks, Gonzalo > A: Using IPV, but keeping the qvalue for IPv4 > > v=0 > o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com > s= > t=0 0 > a=group:IPV 1 2 > m=audio 6886 RTP/AVP 0 > c=IN IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24 > a=mid:1 > m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0 > c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10 > a=alt:1 1.0 : user 9kksj== 10.0.1.1 1010 > a=alt:2 0.8 : user1 9kksk== 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990 > a=alt:3 0.4 : user2 9kksl== 192.0.2.10 8076 > a=mid:2 > > B: Using IPV, using simple ordered list instead of qvalue for IPv4 > > v=0 > o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com > s= > t=0 0 > a=group:IPV 1 2 > m=audio 6886 RTP/AVP 0 > c=IN IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24 > a=mid:1 > m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0 > c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10 > a=alt:1 user 9kksj== 10.0.1.1 1010 > a=alt:2 user1 9kksk== 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990 > a=alt:3 user2 9kksl== 192.0.2.10 8076 > a=mid:2 > > C: As per current ICE draft. This implies that we would be running a > STUN server > on the IPv6 address as well to check for connectivity. > > v=0 > o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com > s= > c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10 > t=0 0 > m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0 > a=alt:1 1.0 : user 9kksi = IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24 (note that > I've added > a=alt:1 0.9 : user0 9kksj== IP 4 10.0.1.1 1010 an IP6 and > IP4) > a=alt:2 0.8 : user1 9kksk== IP4 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990 > a=alt:3 0.4 : user2 9kksl== IP4 192.0.2.10 8076 > > I think the intent is either A or B. Can you clarify? > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 24 06:50:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24908 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzWK-0002SY-12 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:18 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9OAoE49009341 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzWH-0002Og-7H for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24871 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:49:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzWB-0001N2-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzWB-0001Mv-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzWA-0002Gk-KX; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfp9-0004tL-Bg for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:48:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20768 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfp7-00004h-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:48:21 -0400 Received: from h-66-167-171-107.sttnwaho.covad.net ([66.167.171.107] helo=internaut.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfp6-00004M-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:48:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h9NDBn507219; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:11:49 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:11:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Bernard Aboba To: Baruch Sterman cc: sipping@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting In-Reply-To: <002001c39968$9cebe660$6a01a8c0@BARUCHLAPTOP> Message-ID: References: <002001c39968$9cebe660$6a01a8c0@BARUCHLAPTOP> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > I won't be able to make the meeting, but please let me know what I can > do to push this forward. The most obvious things would be: a. To volunteer to edit the draft (in SIPPING or RADEXT) b. To find someone to present the draft (at this and other meetings) _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 24 06:50:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24927 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzWK-0002SX-1D for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:20 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9OAoEsr009382 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzWG-0002Nq-SZ for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24874 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:49:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzWC-0001N5-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzWB-0001N0-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzWE-0002I7-Bg; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACfsK-0005Rc-CB for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:51:40 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21179 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:51:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfsI-0000E4-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:51:38 -0400 Received: from h-66-167-171-107.sttnwaho.covad.net ([66.167.171.107] helo=internaut.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACfsH-0000Dx-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:51:38 -0400 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h9NDFE107512; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:15:15 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:15:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Bernard Aboba To: john.loughney@nokia.com cc: sipping@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Sipping] SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > Then the IETF doesn't need to do anything, I guess. If this is really > important to service providers, they'd demand their vendors provide > an interoperable spec. If vendors were motivated, I am sure they > could allocate someone to get it done. If noone wants to put any effort > to get it done, I sure don't want to waste my time. I don't think that > the IETF has spare resources ... Agreed. If individuals can't be identified who are qualified and committed to the work, there's no point in discussing whether it should be a WG work item or not. Without a champion, drafts tend to become a "ward of the state" and personally, I've got all the "draft orphans" I can handle. _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 24 06:50:47 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24984 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzWK-0002SW-18 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:21 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9OAoERT009320 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzWG-0002NE-K4 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24869 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:49:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzWB-0001Mz-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:08 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACzWB-0001Mu-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACzW9-0002GU-97; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 06:50:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABpyI-0003QM-7q for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:26:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA07805 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABpyE-00002k-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:26:18 -0400 Received: from h-66-167-171-107.sttnwaho.covad.net ([66.167.171.107] helo=internaut.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABpyD-00002h-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:26:17 -0400 Received: from localhost (aboba@localhost) by internaut.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h9L5o9J08974; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:50:09 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:50:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Bernard Aboba To: Dean Willis cc: "'sipping'" In-Reply-To: <002501c3974c$b55c2750$e1036e3f@txdwillis> Message-ID: References: <002501c3974c$b55c2750$e1036e3f@txdwillis> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Sipping] Re: SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > 4) There's a RADIUS Accounting draft from Henning et al, which I seem to > have misplaced the text of. I believe it is: http://www.watersprings.org/pub/id/draft-schulzrinne-sipping-radius-accounting-00.txt > I'm thinking: > > 1) The Sterman-AAA draft: > Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in RADIUSEXT? > > 2) The RADIUS Accounting draft: > Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in RADIUSEXT? Volunteers should send me email so I can put you on the agenda. _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 24 10:05:13 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA00974 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD2Yg-00022z-0E for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:04:54 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9OE4rWK007863 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:04:53 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD2Yf-00022k-RR for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:04:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA00916 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD2Yd-0003dZ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:04:51 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD2Yd-0003dV-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:04:51 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD2Xp-0001lX-34; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:04:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD2XO-0001jW-DN for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:03:34 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA00761 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD2XM-0003bm-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:03:32 -0400 Received: from mail1.telekom.de ([62.225.183.202]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD2XL-0003bC-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:03:31 -0400 Received: from g9jbr.mgb01.telekom.de by G8SBV.dmz.telekom.de with ESMTP; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:58:28 +0200 Received: by G9JBR.mgb01.telekom.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:58:26 +0200 Message-Id: From: "Beck01, Wolfgang" To: aboba@internaut.com, dean.willis@softarmor.com, "Liess, Laura" , baruch@tekhelet.com Cc: sipping@ietf.org Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:58:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Sipping] Re: SIP and AAA open questions and RADIUSEXT meeting Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Bernard, You wrote: > I'm thinking: > > 1) The Sterman-AAA draft: > Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in RADIUSEXT? I can do it. > 2) The RADIUS Accounting draft: > Any volunteers to present and lead the discussion for this in RADIUSEXT? If Henning is not available, I volunteer for this task, too. Wolfgang Beck Deutsche Telekom/T-Systems _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 24 12:51:44 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA16969 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:51:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD59m-0002yn-Vo for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:51:25 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9OGpM25011449 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:51:22 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD59m-0002ya-QH for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:51:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA16954 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD59k-0000YX-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:51:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD59k-0000YU-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:51:20 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD59S-0002uY-AU; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:51:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD58w-0002pR-GI for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:50:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA16930 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:50:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD58t-0000Xl-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:50:27 -0400 Received: from h65s138a81n47.user.nortelnetworks.com ([47.81.138.65] helo=zsc3s004.nortelnetworks.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD58r-0000XS-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:50:25 -0400 Received: from zrc2s0jx.nortelnetworks.com (zrc2s0jx.nortelnetworks.com [47.103.122.112]) by zsc3s004.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h9OGnoN12130; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zsc3c028.us.nortel.com (zsc3c028.us.nortel.com [47.81.138.28]) by zrc2s0jx.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h9OGnmr28349; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:49:48 -0500 (CDT) Received: by zsc3c028.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:49:48 -0700 Message-ID: <2F1FC1DEA077D5119FAD00508BCFD6D20BC3539A@zsc3c030.us.nortel.com> From: "Francois Audet" To: "'Gonzalo Camarillo'" Cc: "'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'" , "'Gonzalo Camarillo'" , "'sipping@ietf.org'" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:49:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C39A4E.D5B6EC4C" Subject: [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A4E.D5B6EC4C Content-Type: text/plain Thanks. That's what I tought. Excellent. Minor comment is that if we do allow for STUN on IPv6 addresses, we should probably have an "IP6" or "IP4" indicator in the alt line to indicate the IP address type (like a c line). > -----Original Message----- > From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 22:10 > To: Audet, Francois [SC100:4K02:EXCH] > Cc: 'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'; 'Gonzalo > Camarillo'; 'sipping@ietf.org' > Subject: Re: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & > draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-02.tx t > > > Francois, > > > 1 - In ICE, do you intend to keep the address priority based on the > > qvalue (similar > > to alt-01), or do you intend to go with the simple > prioritized list > > approach > > as per alt-02? In both cases, I'm assuming you are > keeping the alt > > parameter. > > Within an m line, we intend to use the alt lines defined in ICE using > qvalues. > > > 2 - Is the intent that IPv6 addresses in SDP be expressed > in ICE using > > the IPV > > format, or does it follow the IPv4 format as per the > current example > > in ICE? > > The IPv6 addresses will use the IPV format. > > > Section 5.3 of ICE talks briefly about IPv6 addresses, > but there > > is > > no example > > on how it would be expressed. I believe that the intent > is to use > > the IPV format > > in ICE for IPv6 addresses. Is this accurate? > > Yes. > > > 3 - References: ICE should refer to alt-2 not alt-1 in the > reference. > > > > 4 - Is the intent that STUN requests in ICE be receivable > only on IPv4 > > addresses? > > This would assume that IPv6 addresses are always reachable. I > > believe this is > > the intent. > > If you added alt lines to an IPv6 line, you could run STUN on > it... the > idea is presenting user agents with an IPv6 and an IPv4 address for a > stream. Once the UA picks up a media line (corresponding to > an address), > it does whatever that media line tells it to do (e.g, running STUN). > > > In other words, to take the example A's offer in ICE section 9.1.1 > > (Figure 5), > > if there was also an IPv6 address, which of the following > SDP (A, B or > > C) would be > > correct: > > Option A would be correct (use IPV and alt lines with qvalues). We > actually have a draft that contains a similar example (I believe > Jonathan submitted before the cut-off...). This is an SDP taken from > that draft: > > v=0 > o=bob 280744730 28977631 IN IP6 host.example.com > s= > t=0 0 > a=group:IPV 1 2 > m=audio 6886 RTP/AVP 0 > c=IN IP6 2001:056D::112E:144A:1E24 > a=mid:1 > m=audio 22334 RTP/AVP 0 > c=IN IP4 192.0.0.1 > a=mid:2 > a=alt:1 1.0 : user 9kksj== 192.0.0.1 22334 > > Thanks, > > Gonzalo > > > > > A: Using IPV, but keeping the qvalue for IPv4 > > > > v=0 > > o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com > > s= > > t=0 0 > > a=group:IPV 1 2 > > m=audio 6886 RTP/AVP 0 > > c=IN IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24 > > a=mid:1 > > m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0 > > c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10 > > a=alt:1 1.0 : user 9kksj== 10.0.1.1 1010 > > a=alt:2 0.8 : user1 9kksk== 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990 > > a=alt:3 0.4 : user2 9kksl== 192.0.2.10 8076 > > a=mid:2 > > > > B: Using IPV, using simple ordered list instead of qvalue for IPv4 > > > > v=0 > > o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com > > s= > > t=0 0 > > a=group:IPV 1 2 > > m=audio 6886 RTP/AVP 0 > > c=IN IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24 > > a=mid:1 > > m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0 > > c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10 > > a=alt:1 user 9kksj== 10.0.1.1 1010 > > a=alt:2 user1 9kksk== 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990 > > a=alt:3 user2 9kksl== 192.0.2.10 8076 > > a=mid:2 > > > > C: As per current ICE draft. This implies that we would be running a > > STUN server > > on the IPv6 address as well to check for connectivity. > > > > v=0 > > o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com > > s= > > c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10 > > t=0 0 > > m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0 > > a=alt:1 1.0 : user 9kksi = IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24 (note > > that > > I've added > > a=alt:1 0.9 : user0 9kksj== IP 4 10.0.1.1 1010 > an IP6 and > > IP4) > > a=alt:2 0.8 : user1 9kksk== IP4 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990 > > a=alt:3 0.4 : user2 9kksl== IP4 192.0.2.10 8076 > > > > I think the intent is either A or B. Can you clarify? > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A4E.D5B6EC4C Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & = draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-02.tx t

Thanks. That's what I tought. Excellent.

Minor comment is that if we do allow for STUN on IPv6 = addresses, we should
probably have an "IP6" or "IP4" = indicator in the alt line to indicate
the IP address type (like a c line).

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@= ericsson.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 22:10
> To: Audet, Francois [SC100:4K02:EXCH]
> Cc: 'Jonathan ROSENBERG = (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'; 'Gonzalo
> Camarillo'; 'sipping@ietf.org'
> Subject: Re: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 = &
> draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-02.tx t
>
>
> Francois,
>
> > 1 - In ICE, do you intend to keep the = address priority based on the
> > qvalue (similar
> >     to alt-01), or do = you intend to go with the simple
> prioritized list
> > approach
> >     as per alt-02? In = both cases, I'm assuming you are
> keeping the alt
> > parameter.
>
> Within an m line, we intend to use the alt = lines defined in ICE using
> qvalues.
>
> > 2 - Is the intent that IPv6 addresses in = SDP be expressed
> in ICE using
> > the IPV
> >     format, or does it = follow the IPv4 format as per the
> current example
> > in ICE?
>
> The IPv6 addresses will use the IPV = format.
>
> >     Section 5.3 of ICE = talks briefly about IPv6 addresses,
> but there
> > is
> > no example
> >     on how it would be = expressed. I believe that the intent
> is to use
> > the IPV format
> >     in ICE for IPv6 = addresses. Is this accurate?
>
> Yes.
>
> > 3 - References: ICE should refer to alt-2 = not alt-1 in the
> reference.
> >
> > 4 - Is the intent that STUN requests in = ICE be receivable
> only on IPv4
> > addresses?
> >     This would assume = that IPv6 addresses are always reachable. I
> > believe this is
> >     the intent.
>
> If you added alt lines to an IPv6 line, you = could run STUN on
> it... the
> idea is presenting user agents with an IPv6 and = an IPv4 address for a
> stream. Once the UA picks up a media line = (corresponding to
> an address),
> it does whatever that media line tells it to do = (e.g, running STUN).
>
> > In other words, to take the example A's = offer in ICE section 9.1.1
> > (Figure 5),
> > if there was also an IPv6 address, which = of the following
> SDP (A, B or
> > C) would be
> > correct:
>
> Option A would be correct (use IPV and alt = lines with qvalues). We
> actually have a draft that contains a similar = example (I believe
> Jonathan submitted before the cut-off...). This = is an SDP taken from
> that draft:
>
>      v=3D0
>      o=3Dbob 280744730 = 28977631 IN IP6 host.example.com
>      s=3D
>      t=3D0 0
>      a=3Dgroup:IPV 1 = 2
>      m=3Daudio 6886 = RTP/AVP 0
>      c=3DIN IP6 = 2001:056D::112E:144A:1E24
>      a=3Dmid:1
>      m=3Daudio 22334 = RTP/AVP 0
>      c=3DIN IP4 = 192.0.0.1
>      a=3Dmid:2
>      a=3Dalt:1 1.0 : = user 9kksj=3D=3D 192.0.0.1 22334
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gonzalo
>
>
>
> > A: Using IPV, but keeping the qvalue for = IPv4
> >
> >    v=3D0
> >    o=3Dalice 2890844730 = 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com
> >    s=3D
> >    t=3D0 0
> >    a=3Dgroup:IPV 1 2
> >    m=3Daudio 6886 RTP/AVP = 0
> >    c=3DIN IP6 = 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24
> >    a=3Dmid:1
> >    m=3Daudio 8076 RTP/AVP = 0
> >    c=3DIN IP4 = 192.0.2.10
> >    a=3Dalt:1 1.0 : user = 9kksj=3D=3D 10.0.1.1 1010
> >    a=3Dalt:2 0.8 : user1 = 9kksk=3D=3D 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990
> >    a=3Dalt:3 0.4 : user2 = 9kksl=3D=3D 192.0.2.10 8076
> >    a=3Dmid:2
> >
> > B: Using IPV, using simple ordered list = instead of qvalue for IPv4
> >
> >    v=3D0
> >    o=3Dalice 2890844730 = 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com
> >    s=3D
> >    t=3D0 0
> >    a=3Dgroup:IPV 1 2
> >    m=3Daudio 6886 RTP/AVP = 0
> >    c=3DIN IP6 = 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24
> >    a=3Dmid:1
> >    m=3Daudio 8076 RTP/AVP = 0
> >    c=3DIN IP4 = 192.0.2.10
> >    a=3Dalt:1 user = 9kksj=3D=3D 10.0.1.1 1010
> >    a=3Dalt:2 user1 = 9kksk=3D=3D 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990
> >    a=3Dalt:3 user2 = 9kksl=3D=3D 192.0.2.10 8076
> >    a=3Dmid:2
> >
> > C: As per current ICE draft. This implies = that we would be running a
> > STUN server
> >    on the IPv6 address as = well to check for connectivity.
> >
> >    v=3D0
> >    o=3Dalice 2890844730 = 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com
> >    s=3D
> >    c=3DIN IP4 = 192.0.2.10
> >    t=3D0 0
> >    m=3Daudio 8076 RTP/AVP = 0
> >    a=3Dalt:1 1.0 : user = 9kksi =3D IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24  (note
> > that
> > I've added
> >    a=3Dalt:1 0.9 : user0 = 9kksj=3D=3D IP 4 10.0.1.1 = 1010           =
>   an IP6 and
> > IP4)
> >    a=3Dalt:2 0.8 : user1 = 9kksk=3D=3D IP4 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990
> >    a=3Dalt:3 0.4 : user2 = 9kksl=3D=3D IP4 192.0.2.10 8076
> >
> > I think the intent is either A or B. Can = you clarify?
> >
>
>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C39A4E.D5B6EC4C-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Oct 25 06:36:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA01834 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:36:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADLmC-0008Ql-NQ for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:36:10 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9PAa8gE032403 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:36:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADLmC-0008QY-Jr for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:36:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA01824 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:35:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADLm8-0003hF-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:36:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADLm8-0003hC-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:36:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADLm5-0008PC-OA; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:36:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADLlO-0008Mq-Ei for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:35:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA01808 for ; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADLlK-0003gw-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:35:14 -0400 Received: from imr2.ericy.com ([198.24.6.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADLlJ-0003gn-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 06:35:13 -0400 Received: from eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se (eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.133.51]) by imr2.ericy.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9PAYcO8024841; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 05:34:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ericsson.com (EFO9N000L5C7100 [153.88.94.64]) by eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id VNP9TNQW; Sat, 25 Oct 2003 05:33:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3F9A51B6.7040502@ericsson.com> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:34:30 +0300 X-Sybari-Trust: e1f4ed85 406a040f c001c63b 00000138 From: Gonzalo Camarillo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francois Audet CC: "'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'" , "'Gonzalo Camarillo'" , "'sipping@ietf.org'" Subject: Re: [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t References: <2F1FC1DEA077D5119FAD00508BCFD6D20BC3539A@zsc3c030.us.nortel.com> In-Reply-To: <2F1FC1DEA077D5119FAD00508BCFD6D20BC3539A@zsc3c030.us.nortel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Francois, such indicator is not necessary because all the alt lines contain addresses of the same type as the main address for the m line (in a c line that may be at the session level or at the m line level). Gonzalo Francois Audet wrote: > Thanks. That's what I tought. Excellent. > > Minor comment is that if we do allow for STUN on IPv6 addresses, we should > probably have an "IP6" or "IP4" indicator in the alt line to indicate > the IP address type (like a c line). > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com] > > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 22:10 > > To: Audet, Francois [SC100:4K02:EXCH] > > Cc: 'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'; 'Gonzalo > > Camarillo'; 'sipping@ietf.org' > > Subject: Re: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & > > draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-02.tx t > > > > > > Francois, > > > > > 1 - In ICE, do you intend to keep the address priority based on the > > > qvalue (similar > > > to alt-01), or do you intend to go with the simple > > prioritized list > > > approach > > > as per alt-02? In both cases, I'm assuming you are > > keeping the alt > > > parameter. > > > > Within an m line, we intend to use the alt lines defined in ICE using > > qvalues. > > > > > 2 - Is the intent that IPv6 addresses in SDP be expressed > > in ICE using > > > the IPV > > > format, or does it follow the IPv4 format as per the > > current example > > > in ICE? > > > > The IPv6 addresses will use the IPV format. > > > > > Section 5.3 of ICE talks briefly about IPv6 addresses, > > but there > > > is > > > no example > > > on how it would be expressed. I believe that the intent > > is to use > > > the IPV format > > > in ICE for IPv6 addresses. Is this accurate? > > > > Yes. > > > > > 3 - References: ICE should refer to alt-2 not alt-1 in the > > reference. > > > > > > 4 - Is the intent that STUN requests in ICE be receivable > > only on IPv4 > > > addresses? > > > This would assume that IPv6 addresses are always reachable. I > > > believe this is > > > the intent. > > > > If you added alt lines to an IPv6 line, you could run STUN on > > it... the > > idea is presenting user agents with an IPv6 and an IPv4 address for a > > stream. Once the UA picks up a media line (corresponding to > > an address), > > it does whatever that media line tells it to do (e.g, running STUN). > > > > > In other words, to take the example A's offer in ICE section 9.1.1 > > > (Figure 5), > > > if there was also an IPv6 address, which of the following > > SDP (A, B or > > > C) would be > > > correct: > > > > Option A would be correct (use IPV and alt lines with qvalues). We > > actually have a draft that contains a similar example (I believe > > Jonathan submitted before the cut-off...). This is an SDP taken from > > that draft: > > > > v=0 > > o=bob 280744730 28977631 IN IP6 host.example.com > > s= > > t=0 0 > > a=group:IPV 1 2 > > m=audio 6886 RTP/AVP 0 > > c=IN IP6 2001:056D::112E:144A:1E24 > > a=mid:1 > > m=audio 22334 RTP/AVP 0 > > c=IN IP4 192.0.0.1 > > a=mid:2 > > a=alt:1 1.0 : user 9kksj== 192.0.0.1 22334 > > > > Thanks, > > > > Gonzalo > > > > > > > > > A: Using IPV, but keeping the qvalue for IPv4 > > > > > > v=0 > > > o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com > > > s= > > > t=0 0 > > > a=group:IPV 1 2 > > > m=audio 6886 RTP/AVP 0 > > > c=IN IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24 > > > a=mid:1 > > > m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0 > > > c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10 > > > a=alt:1 1.0 : user 9kksj== 10.0.1.1 1010 > > > a=alt:2 0.8 : user1 9kksk== 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990 > > > a=alt:3 0.4 : user2 9kksl== 192.0.2.10 8076 > > > a=mid:2 > > > > > > B: Using IPV, using simple ordered list instead of qvalue for IPv4 > > > > > > v=0 > > > o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com > > > s= > > > t=0 0 > > > a=group:IPV 1 2 > > > m=audio 6886 RTP/AVP 0 > > > c=IN IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24 > > > a=mid:1 > > > m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0 > > > c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10 > > > a=alt:1 user 9kksj== 10.0.1.1 1010 > > > a=alt:2 user1 9kksk== 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990 > > > a=alt:3 user2 9kksl== 192.0.2.10 8076 > > > a=mid:2 > > > > > > C: As per current ICE draft. This implies that we would be running a > > > STUN server > > > on the IPv6 address as well to check for connectivity. > > > > > > v=0 > > > o=alice 2890844730 2890844731 IN IP4 host.example.com > > > s= > > > c=IN IP4 192.0.2.10 > > > t=0 0 > > > m=audio 8076 RTP/AVP 0 > > > a=alt:1 1.0 : user 9kksi = IP6 2201:056D::112E:144A:1E24 (note > > > that > > > I've added > > > a=alt:1 0.9 : user0 9kksj== IP 4 10.0.1.1 1010 > > an IP6 and > > > IP4) > > > a=alt:2 0.8 : user1 9kksk== IP4 192.0.2.1 9988 192.0.2.1 9990 > > > a=alt:3 0.4 : user2 9kksl== IP4 192.0.2.10 8076 > > > > > > I think the intent is either A or B. Can you clarify? > > > > > > > > -- Gonzalo Camarillo Phone : +358 9 299 33 71 Oy L M Ericsson Ab Mobile: +358 40 702 35 35 Telecom R&D Fax : +358 9 299 30 52 FIN-02420 Jorvas Email : Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com Finland http://www.hut.fi/~gonzalo _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 26 12:23:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22138 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:23:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADobd-0004Ph-1T for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:23:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9QHN9lJ016961 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:23:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADobc-0004PU-RU for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:23:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22130 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:22:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADobb-0006bN-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:23:07 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADoba-0006bJ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:23:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADobV-0004O8-LQ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:23:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADoay-0004ME-HD for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:22:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22116 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:22:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADoax-0006b1-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:22:27 -0500 Received: from h65s138a81n47.user.nortelnetworks.com ([47.81.138.65] helo=zsc3s004.nortelnetworks.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADoaw-0006ag-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:22:26 -0500 Received: from zrc2s0jx.nortelnetworks.com (zrc2s0jx.nortelnetworks.com [47.103.122.112]) by zsc3s004.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h9QHLcX04855; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:21:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from zsc3c028.us.nortel.com (zsc3c028.us.nortel.com [47.81.138.28]) by zrc2s0jx.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h9QHLa217838; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:21:36 -0600 (CST) Received: by zsc3c028.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:21:36 -0800 Message-ID: <2F1FC1DEA077D5119FAD00508BCFD6D20BC8D7F6@zsc3c030.us.nortel.com> From: "Francois Audet" To: "'Gonzalo Camarillo'" Cc: "'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'" , "'Gonzalo Camarillo'" , "'sipping@ietf.org'" Subject: RE: [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & draft-camarill o-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:21:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C39BE5.996F38C8" Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39BE5.996F38C8 Content-Type: text/plain Good point. Thanks. However, reading through STUN carefully, it seems to me that it only allows for IPv4 addresses in the STUN messages themselves. For example, the MAPPED-ADDRESS only allows for IPv4 addresses at this point. Unless of course we extend it. (It currently only has a 0x01 Family corresponding to IPv4). So, unless I'm missing something, ICE today will not allow the use of STUN to verify connectivity to IPv6 addresses. We'd have to assume that IPv6 addresses always work. We should probably explain this in ICE, or expand STUN itself to allow for IPv6 addresses as well. I'm wondering if STUN/ICE running only on IPv4 addresses wouldn't put IPv6 at a disadvantage over IPv4 addresses (they'd be less reliable). When STUN was defined, it didn't make much sense to allow for IPv6 addresses, because the purpose was to derive NATed addresses and discover the presence of NATs. However, ICE change the applicability of STUN to also be a mechanism to verify reachability. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 03:34 > To: Audet, Francois [SC100:4K02:EXCH] > Cc: 'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'; 'Gonzalo > Camarillo'; 'sipping@ietf.org' > Subject: Re: [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & > draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t > > > Francois, > > such indicator is not necessary because all the alt lines contain > addresses of the same type as the main address for the m line (in a c > line that may be at the session level or at the m line level). > > Gonzalo ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39BE5.996F38C8 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & = draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t

Good point. Thanks.

However, reading through STUN carefully, it seems to = me that it only
allows for IPv4 addresses in the STUN messages = themselves. For
example, the MAPPED-ADDRESS only allows for IPv4 = addresses at this point.
Unless of course we extend it. (It currently only = has a 0x01 Family
corresponding to IPv4).

So, unless I'm missing something, ICE today will not = allow the use of STUN
to verify connectivity to IPv6 addresses. We'd = have
to assume that IPv6 addresses always work. We should = probably explain
this in ICE, or expand STUN itself to allow for IPv6 = addresses as well.
I'm wondering if STUN/ICE running only on IPv4 = addresses wouldn't put IPv6
at a disadvantage over IPv4 addresses (they'd be = less reliable).

When STUN was defined, it didn't make much sense to = allow for IPv6 addresses,
because the purpose was to derive NATed addresses = and discover the presence of
NATs. However, ICE change the applicability of STUN = to also be a mechanism to
verify reachability.




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@= ericsson.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 03:34
> To: Audet, Francois [SC100:4K02:EXCH]
> Cc: 'Jonathan ROSENBERG = (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'; 'Gonzalo
> Camarillo'; 'sipping@ietf.org'
> Subject: Re: [Sipping] RE: = draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 &
> draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t
>
>
> Francois,
>
> such indicator is not necessary because all the = alt lines contain
> addresses of the same type as the main address = for the m line (in a c
> line that may be at the session level or at the = m line level).
>
> Gonzalo

------_=_NextPart_001_01C39BE5.996F38C8-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 26 12:42:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22561 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:42:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADotw-0006cP-CE for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:42:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9QHg475025435 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:42:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADotw-0006cA-8v for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:42:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22544 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:41:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADotu-0006lA-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:42:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADotu-0006l7-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:42:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADott-0006b6-Dy; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:42:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADotC-0006Yo-W2 for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:41:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22541 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:41:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADotB-0006l3-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:41:17 -0500 Received: from imr2.ericy.com ([198.24.6.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADotA-0006ko-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:41:16 -0500 Received: from eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se (eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.133.51]) by imr2.ericy.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QHeeO8023788; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:40:40 -0600 (CST) Received: from ericsson.com (EFO9N000L5C7100 [153.88.94.17]) by eamrcnt750.exu.ericsson.se with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id VNP9XNR2; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:39:44 -0600 Message-ID: <3F9C0711.5040308@ericsson.com> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:40:33 +0200 X-Sybari-Trust: 3fabfbd6 406a040f c001c63b 00000138 From: Gonzalo Camarillo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francois Audet CC: "'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'" , "'Gonzalo Camarillo'" , "'sipping@ietf.org'" Subject: Re: [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & draft-camarill o-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t References: <2F1FC1DEA077D5119FAD00508BCFD6D20BC8D7F6@zsc3c030.us.nortel.com> In-Reply-To: <2F1FC1DEA077D5119FAD00508BCFD6D20BC8D7F6@zsc3c030.us.nortel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Francois, if STUN is used only for NAT traversal, it may make sense to define only IPv4 addresses. Nevertheless, if we start using STUN to perform return routability tests to prevent DoS attacks (Jonathan has a draft about it), it will make sense to define IPv6 addresses as well. To me, it makes sense to use the same mechanism for both things. This way, implementors are encouraged to implement it so that they can communicate with more people, and we kill two birds with the same stone. Otherwise, I do not know how much priority a specific mechanism for DoS prevention would get... people tend to ignore this type of thing until a big attack hits them. Gonzalo Francois Audet wrote: > Good point. Thanks. > > However, reading through STUN carefully, it seems to me that it only > allows for IPv4 addresses in the STUN messages themselves. For > example, the MAPPED-ADDRESS only allows for IPv4 addresses at this point. > Unless of course we extend it. (It currently only has a 0x01 Family > corresponding to IPv4). > > So, unless I'm missing something, ICE today will not allow the use of STUN > to verify connectivity to IPv6 addresses. We'd have > to assume that IPv6 addresses always work. We should probably explain > this in ICE, or expand STUN itself to allow for IPv6 addresses as well. > I'm wondering if STUN/ICE running only on IPv4 addresses wouldn't put IPv6 > at a disadvantage over IPv4 addresses (they'd be less reliable). > > When STUN was defined, it didn't make much sense to allow for IPv6 > addresses, > because the purpose was to derive NATed addresses and discover the > presence of > NATs. However, ICE change the applicability of STUN to also be a > mechanism to > verify reachability. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com] > > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 03:34 > > To: Audet, Francois [SC100:4K02:EXCH] > > Cc: 'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'; 'Gonzalo > > Camarillo'; 'sipping@ietf.org' > > Subject: Re: [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & > > draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t > > > > > > Francois, > > > > such indicator is not necessary because all the alt lines contain > > addresses of the same type as the main address for the m line (in a c > > line that may be at the session level or at the m line level). > > > > Gonzalo > -- Gonzalo Camarillo Phone : +358 9 299 33 71 Oy L M Ericsson Ab Mobile: +358 40 702 35 35 Telecom R&D Fax : +358 9 299 30 52 FIN-02420 Jorvas Email : Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com Finland http://www.hut.fi/~gonzalo _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 26 12:51:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22754 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:51:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADp2g-0007Py-DW for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:51:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9QHp68c028508 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:51:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADp2e-0007NQ-Qy for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:51:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22732 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:50:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADp2d-0006rQ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:51:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADp2c-0006rN-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:51:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADp2d-0007M5-7G; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:51:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADp2W-0007LL-EP for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:50:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22726 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:50:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADp2U-0006rE-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:50:54 -0500 Received: from natsmtp01.rzone.de ([81.169.145.166]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADp2U-0006r7-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:50:54 -0500 Received: from sip (pD9E6BBA5.dip.t-dialin.net [217.230.187.165]) by post.webmailer.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9QHolE4015901; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:50:47 +0100 (MET) From: "Christian Stredicke" To: "'Francois Audet'" , "'Gonzalo Camarillo'" Cc: "'Jonathan ROSENBERG'" , "'Gonzalo Camarillo'" , Subject: AW: [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:51:34 +0100 Message-ID: <01e901c39be9$ccacd570$0a02a8c0@sip> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01EA_01C39BF2.2E713D70" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <2F1FC1DEA077D5119FAD00508BCFD6D20BC8D7F6@zsc3c030.us.nortel.com> Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01EA_01C39BF2.2E713D70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1) IPv4/IPv6 =20 There will definitively be firewalls in IPv6. So we should include IPv6 right from the beginning. =20 Maybe it is possible to determine IPv4/IPv6 by the =93look=94. Address =93123.123.123.123=94 looks different than =931080::8:800:200C:417A=94. =20 2) Expected Source Address =20 There is a trick to go though symmetrical NAT from everywhere: The sender of the packets forges the source address with the expected source address (writing on raw sockets). This makes the firewall think the packet is coming from the expected source and let it pass through. = It=92s a dirty trick but it works in many cases. =20 It would be nice if we have a description for the expected source address. =20 CS =20 -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von Francois Audet Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. Oktober 2003 18:22 An: 'Gonzalo Camarillo' Cc: 'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'; 'Gonzalo Camarillo'; 'sipping@ietf.org' Betreff: RE: [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t =20 Good point. Thanks.=20 However, reading through STUN carefully, it seems to me that it only=20 allows for IPv4 addresses in the STUN messages themselves. For=20 example, the MAPPED-ADDRESS only allows for IPv4 addresses at this point.=20 Unless of course we extend it. (It currently only has a 0x01 Family=20 corresponding to IPv4).=20 So, unless I'm missing something, ICE today will not allow the use of STUN=20 to verify connectivity to IPv6 addresses. We'd have=20 to assume that IPv6 addresses always work. We should probably explain=20 this in ICE, or expand STUN itself to allow for IPv6 addresses as well.=20 I'm wondering if STUN/ICE running only on IPv4 addresses wouldn't put IPv6=20 at a disadvantage over IPv4 addresses (they'd be less reliable).=20 When STUN was defined, it didn't make much sense to allow for IPv6 addresses,=20 because the purpose was to derive NATed addresses and discover the presence of=20 NATs. However, ICE change the applicability of STUN to also be a mechanism to=20 verify reachability.=20 > -----Original Message-----=20 > From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com]=20 > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 03:34=20 > To: Audet, Francois [SC100:4K02:EXCH]=20 > Cc: 'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'; 'Gonzalo=20 > Camarillo'; 'sipping@ietf.org'=20 > Subject: Re: [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 &=20 > draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t=20 >=20 >=20 > Francois,=20 >=20 > such indicator is not necessary because all the alt lines contain=20 > addresses of the same type as the main address for the m line (in a c=20 > line that may be at the session level or at the m line level).=20 >=20 > Gonzalo=20 ------=_NextPart_000_01EA_01C39BF2.2E713D70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t

1) = IPv4/IPv6

 

There will = definitively be firewalls in IPv6. So we should include IPv6 right from the = beginning.

 

Maybe it is = possible to determine IPv4/IPv6 by the “look”. Address = “123.123.123.123” looks different than = “1080::8:800:200C:417A”.

 

2) Expected = Source Address

 

There is a = trick to go though symmetrical NAT from everywhere: The sender of the packets forges = the source address with the expected source address (writing on raw = sockets). This makes the firewall think the packet is coming from the expected source and let = it pass through. It’s a dirty trick but it works in many = cases.

 

It would be = nice if we have a description for the expected source address.

 

CS

 

-----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
Von: = sipping-admin@ietf.org [mailto:sipping-admin@ietf.org] Im = Auftrag von Francois Audet
Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. = Oktober 2003 18:22
An: 'Gonzalo = Camarillo'
Cc: 'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'; 'Gonzalo Camarillo'; 'sipping@ietf.org'
Betreff: RE: [Sipping] = RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx = t

 

Good point. Thanks.

However, reading through STUN carefully, it seems to me that it = only
allows for IPv4 = addresses in the STUN messages themselves. For
example, the = MAPPED-ADDRESS only allows for IPv4 addresses at this point.
Unless of course we = extend it. (It currently only has a 0x01 Family
corresponding to = IPv4).

So, unless I'm missing something, ICE today will not allow the use of STUN =
to verify connectivity = to IPv6 addresses. We'd have
to assume that IPv6 = addresses always work. We should probably explain
this in ICE, or expand = STUN itself to allow for IPv6 addresses as well.
I'm wondering if = STUN/ICE running only on IPv4 addresses wouldn't put IPv6
at a disadvantage over = IPv4 addresses (they'd be less reliable).

When STUN was defined, it didn't make much sense to allow for IPv6 = addresses,
because the purpose was = to derive NATed addresses and discover the presence of
NATs. However, ICE = change the applicability of STUN to also be a mechanism to
verify reachability. =



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gonzalo = Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@e= ricsson.com]
> Sent: Saturday, = October 25, 2003 03:34
> To: Audet, Francois [SC100:4K02:EXCH]
> Cc: 'Jonathan = ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'; 'Gonzalo
> Camarillo'; = 'sipping@ietf.org'
> Subject: Re: = [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 &
> = draft-camarillo-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t
>
>
> = Francois,
>
> such indicator is = not necessary because all the alt lines contain
> addresses of the = same type as the main address for the m line (in a c
> line that may be at = the session level or at the m line level).
>
> = Gonzalo

------=_NextPart_000_01EA_01C39BF2.2E713D70-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 26 12:55:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22901 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:55:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADp6Y-0007rf-6D for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:55:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9QHt6ti030225 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:55:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADp6Y-0007rQ-2P for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:55:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22867 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:54:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADp6W-0006ui-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:55:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADp6V-0006ub-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:55:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADp6U-0007nr-P9; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:55:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADp6M-0007mr-BM for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:54:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA22850 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:54:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADp6K-0006u8-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:54:52 -0500 Received: from h65s138a81n47.user.nortelnetworks.com ([47.81.138.65] helo=zsc3s004.nortelnetworks.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADp6J-0006u1-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:54:51 -0500 Received: from zrc2s0jx.nortelnetworks.com (zrc2s0jx.nortelnetworks.com [47.103.122.112]) by zsc3s004.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h9QHsJX06416; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:54:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from zsc3c028.us.nortel.com (zsc3c028.us.nortel.com [47.81.138.28]) by zrc2s0jx.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h9QHsG218164; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:54:17 -0600 (CST) Received: by zsc3c028.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:54:17 -0800 Message-ID: <2F1FC1DEA077D5119FAD00508BCFD6D20BC8D800@zsc3c030.us.nortel.com> From: "Francois Audet" To: "'Gonzalo Camarillo'" Cc: "'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'" , "'Gonzalo Camarillo'" , "'sipping@ietf.org'" Subject: RE: [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & draft-camarill o-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:54:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C39BEA.26684108" Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39BEA.26684108 Content-Type: text/plain We are in agreement. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com] > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 09:41 > To: Audet, Francois [SC100:4K02:EXCH] > Cc: 'Jonathan ROSENBERG (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'; 'Gonzalo > Camarillo'; 'sipping@ietf.org' > Subject: Re: [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & > draft-camarill o-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t > > > Francois, > > if STUN is used only for NAT traversal, it may make sense to > define only > IPv4 addresses. Nevertheless, if we start using STUN to > perform return > routability tests to prevent DoS attacks (Jonathan has a draft about > it), it will make sense to define IPv6 addresses as well. > > To me, it makes sense to use the same mechanism for both things. This > way, implementors are encouraged to implement it so that they can > communicate with more people, and we kill two birds with the > same stone. > Otherwise, I do not know how much priority a specific > mechanism for DoS > prevention would get... people tend to ignore this type of > thing until a > big attack hits them. > > Gonzalo ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39BEA.26684108 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [Sipping] RE: draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 & = draft-camarill o-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t

We are in agreement.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:Gonzalo.Camarillo@= ericsson.com]
> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 09:41
> To: Audet, Francois [SC100:4K02:EXCH]
> Cc: 'Jonathan ROSENBERG = (jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com)'; 'Gonzalo
> Camarillo'; 'sipping@ietf.org'
> Subject: Re: [Sipping] RE: = draft-rosenberg-sipping-ice-01 &
> draft-camarill o-mmusic-alt-0 2.tx t
>
>
> Francois,
>
> if STUN is used only for NAT traversal, it may = make sense to
> define only
> IPv4 addresses. Nevertheless, if we start using = STUN to
> perform return
> routability tests to prevent DoS attacks = (Jonathan has a draft about
> it), it will make sense to define IPv6 = addresses as well.
>
> To me, it makes sense to use the same mechanism = for both things. This
> way, implementors are encouraged to implement = it so that they can
> communicate with more people, and we kill two = birds with the
> same stone.
> Otherwise, I do not know how much priority a = specific
> mechanism for DoS
> prevention would get... people tend to ignore = this type of
> thing until a
> big attack hits them.
>
> Gonzalo

------_=_NextPart_001_01C39BEA.26684108-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 26 21:28:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA08569 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:28:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADx73-00048W-JK for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:28:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9R2S9JE015897 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:28:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADx73-00048K-D9 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:28:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA08556 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:27:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADx70-0004kz-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:28:06 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADx70-0004kw-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:28:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADx6v-00046y-BE; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:28:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADx6Q-00045g-4X for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:27:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA08551 for ; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:27:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADx6N-0004kq-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:27:27 -0500 Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.157]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADx6M-0004kk-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:27:26 -0500 Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69]) by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h9R2QsY11446; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:26:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from zcard0kc.ca.nortel.com ([47.129.242.164]) by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id VRTPB1RM; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:26:55 -0500 Received: from nortelnetworks.com (acart1fr.ca.nortel.com [47.129.129.166]) by zcard0kc.ca.nortel.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id SZW5NH2H; Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:26:53 -0500 Message-ID: <3F9C826D.2070907@nortelnetworks.com> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:26:53 -0500 X-Sybari-Space: 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dick.rr.knight@bt.com CC: sipping@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Sipping] [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com id h9R2QsY11446 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for your comments, Dick. I've just submitted a new version=20 incorporating your comments, generally verbatim. I have a couple of=20 counter-comments below. I made sure to add you to the acknowledgements section this time around := -) dick.rr.knight@bt.com wrote: >=20 > Comments on draft-taylor-sipping-emerg-scen-00.txt, based on the > information sent to Tom about the UK emergency service (999). >=20 ... >=20 > 5. Again in Section 3.2, under (=A3) and (4), the document reads as > though it is placing requirements on the PSTN, rather than defining > requirements for SIP. The PSTN is unlikely to change! This part needs > rewording as follows: (3) The telephone network should be > supplied-with, or enabled to supply, a calling party number or other > unique geographic indicator, that can serve as a key to the mapping > database. (4) The caller's location needs to be supplied during > call set-up, or by being keyed by calling party number or other > unique identifier, is available in the mapping database. In this > document this is assumed to happen as a configuration step in advance > of the call. [PTT] I accepted your rewording. Just a word of explanation for how it=20 was: this section in my mind presented the premises upon which the=20 emergency call system is built. You took it to be the requirements=20 specifically on the SIP network. That's a better slant, and more to the=20 point of this document. ... >=20 > 12. Section 4.2.1, penultimate paragraph: rather than PSTN having "to > know what number to use", it would be better to say what SIP needs to > do: "the PSTN gateway also needs to be provided with a callback > number to use >=20 > 13. In 4.3.2, last bullet, beginning "The PSTN gateway is responsible > for ...", you seem to be placing requirements on the PSTN gateway. > The PSTN gateway can only act on the information it receives... > Suggest adding "(based on information from the SIP network)" after "a > called party number on the PSTN side". [PTT] I viewed the PSTN gateway primarily as a SIP entity. I accepted=20 your rewording, but with some uneasiness: a PSTN gateway which is part=20 of the same network as the SIP phone (both in the same company network,=20 for example) can have access to information which is not provided=20 directly by preceding SIP entities in the call path. Your wording=20 applies if the PSTN gateway is in a different administrative domain from=20 the SIP phone. >=20 ... >=20 > 15. In 5. Conclusions, before the paragraph beginning "Finally ...", > I suggest a new paragraph that states: "There is now an urgency to > arrive at emergency call standards with use of VoIP growing and the > potential for existing implementations to result in problems and > delays in organising responses for ECCs." >=20 [PTT] I'm not sure this follows from the preceding part of the document.=20 I see it as a motivation rather than a conclusion, so I stuck it at=20 the beginning of the introduction. _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 00:03:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA12332 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:03:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADzX3-0001YB-VK for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:03:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9R539BX005953 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:03:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADzX3-0001Xw-S8 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:03:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA12321 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:02:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADzX1-0006Go-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:03:07 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADzX1-0006Gl-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:03:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADzWv-0001WT-Ei; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:03:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ADzWT-0001Tm-QP for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:02:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA12306 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:02:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADzWR-0006GS-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:02:31 -0500 Received: from [63.113.44.69] (helo=mail3.dynamicsoft.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ADzWQ-0006Fw-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:02:31 -0500 Received: from dynamicsoft.com ([63.113.46.29]) by mail3.dynamicsoft.com (8.12.8/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h9R51sca005720; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:01:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3F9CA6BE.3040806@dynamicsoft.com> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:01:50 -0500 From: Jonathan Rosenberg Organization: dynamicsoft User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Daniel G. Petrie" CC: "David R. Oran" , sipping@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Sipping] Re: Queries about draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt References: <404733140.1066809745@[10.32.245.146]> <3F96B8FE.A424811C@pingtel.com> In-Reply-To: <3F96B8FE.A424811C@pingtel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some thoughts inline. Daniel G. Petrie wrote: > >>2. For "Consultative Call Prompting" and other similar advisory notices >>about the purpose of a call, just like for email, isn't the "Subject:" >>header exactly what's called for? > > > Yes. I unfortunately missed this before I submitted the draft. This > helps for prompting, however there is still a need for a symantic > purpose which probably does not make sense in the Subject header > as the syntax is freeform text. One idea here is to have a registry of well-known subjects, which can always be rendered and are meaningful in that way, but for which an automata can look out for, and do something different with, if it sees it. > >>4. "Coerce Gateway Hairpins" is the first of these scenarios for which >>reasonably obvious use of existing protocol features doesn't seem to hold a >>solution. I have a suggestion though, which might have wider applicability, >>and now that we have GRUUs may be just the ticket. Define a new header >>field called "Dialog Affinity: ". The semantics would be for the >>proxy in the destination user's domain to attempt if possible to route the >>request to the same UA (in this case gateway) as is indicated by the >>corresponding Contact: address of the referenced GRUU. Finer granularity to >>the trunk level could be achieved if the subject gateway manufactured GRUUs >>which contained grid values identifying the appropriate trunk. >> Yet another reason, btw, why unique gruus are a good idea. > > > This is a little different from how GRUUs are to be used elsewhere. > Effectively the dialog affinity GRUU is more of a routing URI as > it is not the final distination. The transfer target is URI (e.g. > dialed digits part of the URI initicating the transfer target). > > So just to explore this a little further and make sure I understand > what you mean: > The gateway provides a dialog affinity GRUU for every call in or > out of the gateway. Should the other end of the dialog decide to > do a transfer it copies the dialog affinity GRUU into the consultative > INVITE. The URI cannot change from what is done today as the > URI contains the transfer target which the dialog affinity GRUU > could not have contained. The proxy(s)/location server(s) do a kind > of loose route with the dialog affinity GRUU (or perhaps the > transferor does the loose route?)? This avoids the normal routing > decisions made by the proxy(s)/location server(s) which might send > it to a different gateway. This is what I was thinking as well. In particular, I didnt see a need for a separate header at all. The transferor would verify that its peer in the original call (the gateway) supports gruus (based on Supported: gruu in INVITE/200). Then, to initiate the consultative INVITE, it would literally use loose routing: INVITE sip:transfer-target@domain.com SIP/2.0 Route: sip:gateway-gruu@gateway-domain.com Where the Route header contains the gruu. This causes the consultative transfer to always hairpin through the transferee. We would probably need an additional Supported header field value that allows the transferee to say "I support routing of consultative transfers through me", so that the transferor would know whether it could construct an INVITE as above. > > I think that the proxy(s)/location servers need to be aware of the > dialog affinity GRUU as the location server(s) may still need to > perform transformations on the target URI (e.g. add/remove digit > prefixes, etc.). I am not sure the loose route can work as it is not > clear when or which location server (where there are multiple that > transform the URI) should insert the loose route. I think the transferor inserts it. It will get the call routed to the gateway. If the target of the call requires some kind of digit analysis from there, the gateway should take care of that, or contact a location server to do it. In the latter case, it can use an INVITE with a Request-Disposition that forces a redirect. As an additional issue, the behavior of a proxy on seeing a Route header with an AOR or gruu in it, is far from clear. I believe the appropriate behavior is to actually perform the location lookup on the Route header, and take the results and push those into another Route header. Basically, instead of normal proxy processing which transforms the R-URI, it would transform the Route header. That allows for some very interesting call routing behaviors. -Jonathan R. -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 600 Lanidex Plaza Chief Technology Officer Parsippany, NJ 07054-2711 dynamicsoft jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (973) 952-5050 http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (973) 952-5000 http://www.dynamicsoft.com _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 09:19:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA14801 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:19:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE8DE-0006Ly-VW for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:19:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9REJG51024418 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:19:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE8DE-0006Ll-SN for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:19:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA14637 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:19:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE8DD-0005Wo-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:19:15 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AE8DC-0005Wl-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:19:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE8D1-0006GT-OG; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:19:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AE8Cw-0006EW-Nn for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:18:58 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA14551; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:18:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200310271418.JAA14551@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: sipping@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:18:46 -0500 Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests-01.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Proposal Investigation Working Group of the IETF. Title : Session Initiation Protocol Torture Test Messages Author(s) : A. Johnston Filename : draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests-01.txt Pages : 52 Date : 2003-10-24 This informational document gives examples of Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) test messages designed to exercise and 'torture' a parser. They were developed as part of the SIPit SIP interoperability testing events. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests-01.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-24161017.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-24161017.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 17:15:54 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA20667 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:15:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEFeA-0000TA-PT for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:15:34 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9RMFYu6001805 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:15:34 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEFeA-0000T2-Eh for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:15:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA20403 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:15:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEFe7-0007Mh-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:15:31 -0500 Received: from sausage.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEFe6-0007Lw-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:15:31 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AEFbz-0002J7-CF for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:13:29 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEFap-00084t-3h; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:12:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEFa8-0007o0-2G for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:11:24 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA19578; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:11:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200310272211.RAA19578@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: sipping@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:11:10 -0500 Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests-01.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Proposal Investigation Working Group of the IETF. Title : Session Initiation Protocol Torture Test Messages Author(s) : A. Johnston Filename : draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests-01.txt Pages : 52 Date : 2003-10-24 This informational document gives examples of Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) test messages designed to exercise and 'torture' a parser. They were developed as part of the SIPit SIP interoperability testing events. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests-01.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-27171539.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-sipping-torture-tests-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-27171539.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 27 19:25:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA00492 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:25:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEHfl-0005Bd-MP for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:25:22 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9S0PL1K019923 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:25:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEHfl-0005BB-58 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:25:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA00470 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:25:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEHfj-0002hN-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:25:19 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEHfY-0002hF-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:25:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEHfS-00056U-MP; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:25:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEHf7-00054I-8x for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:24:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA00455 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:24:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEHf5-0002gv-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:24:39 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEHf5-0002gl-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:24:39 -0500 Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9S0O5ew020319; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:24:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id AMY00244; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:22:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:24:20 -0800 Subject: Re: [Sipping] Brian's Comments on draft-mahy-sipping-user-equals- Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Cc: "'sipping@ietf.org'" To: "Rosen, Brian" From: Rohan Mahy In-Reply-To: <313680C9A886D511A06000204840E1CF070B5FF5@whq-msgusr-02.pit.comms.marconi.com> Message-Id: <131A5376-08DD-11D8-B895-0003938AF740@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Monday, October 20, 2003, at 07:45 AM, Rosen, Brian wrote: > This document is a start, but in my opinion not enough. > > The introduction must define dial strings, and differentiate them > from local phone numbers. I think this is the crux of the disagreement. I don't think it is possible to give a rigorous definition of what is a dial string and what is a local number. I invite you to describe an algorithm you can use to determine which is which. If you can then I'll incorporate it in the draft, but I am skeptical that such a distinction is testable any more than the distinction between "erotic art" and "pornography". > It should introduce the idea that a > proxy in the listed domain of a dial string must translate to a global > or local number, and that some phones will do this translation > themselves while others will not. > > Section 5 inadequately deals with dial strings. Dial strings are not > local numbers, and must be translated to local numbers. One must > disambiguate dial strings from local numbers because it is possible > that > they collide. Such a differentiation is also useful to know when > translation has been completed. i don't think they can collide because they are in different contexts > It has been proposed to use separate contexts for dial strings and > local numbers. I generally don't like this idea, but it can be made > to work. It would be best if there was some kind of naming convention > to differentiate, but this is not strictly necessary. > > What is necessary is text in a document: > 1. Saying that dial strings aren't local numbers > 2. Permitting dial strings in a sip uri, with a dial string context. > Note: if you wish to permit a dial string in a tel uri, then > the language in 2806bis must be modified, IMO. > 3. Explicitly defining the use of E/F > 4. Illustrating the use of separate contexts for dial strings > 5. Discussing the provisioning implications of having two > local contexts, one for phones with translation and > another for phones without translation I thought I covered this last one a bit in the draft. A phone that doesn't know its context can just use *itself* as the context. That requires no configuration. A phone that has a digit map obviously needs to be configured with it, so explicitly setting the target context or domain (or both) should be no problem IMO. > It would be much more satisfactory, in my opinion, to simply define > user=dialstring, or something similar, to denote that the user part is > a dial string. Note that sip phones that presently put dial strings in > a sip uri without a context must change anyway. > > We also should define a way to express a dial string with pauses and > waits. > They are pretty useful. They are dialable in many gateways. We need > a way to send such a string. Again, we need text, and again, we could > use a separate context for such strings. > > I do agree with the draft's concepts that > user=phone indicates a local or global number as defined by 2806bis > user=phone without a context on a local number is deprecated cool. I'm very happy about that. > As before, I will write text when we agree we want text to cover. > Thanks to Rohan for this good start. thanks for your comments. take care, -rohan > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 02:28:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA03406 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:28:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEOH1-0008HS-71 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:28:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9S7SF2S031831 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:28:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEOH0-0008HK-Jj for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:28:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA03369 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:28:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEOGw-0002vC-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:28:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEOGw-0002v9-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:28:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEOGo-0008FX-89; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:28:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEOGL-0008EK-Vb for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:27:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA03340 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:27:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEOGI-0002uj-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:27:30 -0500 Received: from [206.176.144.210] (helo=kevlar.softarmor.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEOGH-0002tf-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:27:29 -0500 Received: from kevlar.softarmor.com (kevlar.softarmor.com [127.0.0.1]) by kevlar.softarmor.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9S7R6gJ021846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 28 Oct 2003 01:27:06 -0600 Received: (from dwillis@localhost) by kevlar.softarmor.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9S7R5rZ021844; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 01:27:05 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: kevlar.softarmor.com: dwillis set sender to dean.willis@softarmor.com using -f From: Dean Willis To: sipping@ietf.org Cc: Joe Zebarth Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1067326025.21662.14.camel@kevlar.softarmor.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 01:27:05 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] Please Read Committee T1 Draft on DTMF Notification Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While we were arguing about how to handle keypresses, somebody went out and wrote a draft for an event package for DTMF events. Please review the draft: http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-zebarth-sipping-dtmfad-00.txt As I understand it, the mechanism that this draft is meant to support is defined in Committee T1 Technical Report T1.TR.82-2003. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find said document on the T1 site, but that could just be me -- perhaps the author can give us a link? Questions to consider: Does this approach complement or conflict with the KPML work? Is there danger of fragmenting, or is this work clearly seperate? Would the world (or at least the Internet) be a better place with, or without, this event package? Please copy the author, as well as the list, on any responses. I expect that discussion on this topic will come up during the Minneapolis meeting. Thanks, -- Dean Willis SIPPING co-chair _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 03:54:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA09830 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:54:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEPcD-0007P3-Vm for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:54:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9S8sDeY028451 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:54:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEPcD-0007On-4m for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:54:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA09794 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:54:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEPcA-0005YY-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:54:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEPcA-0005YV-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:54:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEPc2-0007MW-5D; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:54:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEPbb-0007K0-0F for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:53:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA09749 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:53:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEPbY-0005Xm-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:53:32 -0500 Received: from mailgate.siemenscomms.co.uk ([194.129.217.115]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEPbX-0005XV-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 03:53:32 -0500 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.siemenscomms.co.uk by siemenscomms.co.uk (PMDF V6.0-24 #40642) id <0HNG00G01LYDCO@siemenscomms.co.uk> for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:51:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from beex10.siemenscomms.co.uk ([137.223.246.252]) by siemenscomms.co.uk (PMDF V6.0-24 #40642) with ESMTP id <0HNG00GCNLYCA0@siemenscomms.co.uk>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:51:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: by BEEX10 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:52:20 +0000 Content-return: allowed Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:46:20 +0000 From: "Elwell, John" Subject: RE: [Sipping] Re: draft-petrie-sipping-xfer-issues-00.txt To: "'Daniel G. Petrie'" Cc: sipping@ietf.org Message-id: <50B1CBA96870A34799A506B2313F266761FE34@ntht201e> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dan, This paper raises some interesting issues. I think the problem of routing the consultation call via the same gateway (if the potential transfer target is in the same legacy network as the transferee) would be a useful problem to solve. On the other hand, care should be taken to ensure that the consultation call doesn't egress via the wrong gateway because of this. For example, the first call has come in via a QSIG gateway. The consultation call is to an address in the legacy domain but which is best reached via an ISUP gateway. If the call gets routed back to the QSIG gateway, it depends on routing intelligence in the QSIG gateway to ensure that it is onward routed in the SIP network (to an appropriate ISUP gateway) rather than going back into the QSIG network and perhaps taking a non-optimal route to the ISUP destination (perhaps even coming back into the SIP network first). In fact the gateway would be required to act as proxy. I also have concerns about carrying anything in the INVITE request that indicates too strongly that the call is a consultation call linked to a particular existing call / transferee with an intention to transfer. Does the transferor UA necessarily know this? The user interface may not allow the transferor to indicate this. The transferor may not even know at this stage - he may just wish to consult with somebody and then, after talking, decide to do transfer rather than revert to the original call or form an ad hoc conference. So indicating this to the callee (e.g, by the Subject header), unless the caller has explicitly indicated that transfer will follow, is somewhat dangerous. If the transferor has two or more held calls, which one does the consultation call relate to? I guess UAs will tend to have their own rules about which one is applicable if transfer is invoked, in which case that could be used for ensuring routing via the same gateway. However, if other manipulations occur between establishment of the consultation call and the eventual transfer, this "guess" could be wrong. It should work in the majority of cases, so it is probably still worth doing. Finally I am concerned about the transition from consultation to blind transfer. Although maintaining ringing for an extra few seconds after CANCEL would help to solve problems, particularly at a gateway, I can imagine there would be a lot of cases where the callee answers and finds nobody there because the blind transfer does not in fact occur. This might be because the caller has given up and decides to revert to the original call, because a proxy has invoked call forwarding no reply, or because a proxy has used parallel forking and another UAS has answered. I question why Replaces to replace an early dialog will not work. The transferor should not normally try to invoke transfer until a 180 has been received on the consultation call, which means that the consultation call is relatively stable, so there is a good chance that it will be allowed to alert for several seconds and therefore a good chance that REFER with Replaces will work in this situation. Yes, there will be times when, due to forking actions of the proxy, this will not work, but I don't think the alternatives work either. John Elwell (john.elwell@siemens.com) _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 04:18:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA11209 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:18:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEPzN-00021n-M6 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:18:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9S9I9Cu007789 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:18:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEPzM-0001yw-Hc for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:18:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA11177 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:17:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEPzJ-00065C-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:18:05 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEPzJ-000659-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:18:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEPzH-0001vS-2c; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:18:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEPyi-0001q0-Ir for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:17:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA11141 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:17:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEPyf-00064U-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:17:25 -0500 Received: from [207.150.192.11] (helo=furina.request.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEPyf-00064L-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:17:25 -0500 Received: from mailvision.com ([212.143.127.195]) by furina.request.net with ESMTP id <157696727-14870440>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:16:41 -0500 Message-ID: <3F9E4246.3010308@mailvision.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:17:42 +0200 From: Diego B User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dean Willis CC: sipping@ietf.org, Joe Zebarth , rohan@cisco.com Subject: Re: [Sipping] Please Read Committee T1 Draft on DTMF Notification References: <1067326025.21662.14.camel@kevlar.softarmor.com> In-Reply-To: <1067326025.21662.14.camel@kevlar.softarmor.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi; I found this draft very similar to: draft-mahy-sip-signaled-digits-xx The differences I found are: 1- The name of the Event Package 2- The Notification MIME content-type 3- How each draft encode an RFC 2833 ( AVT-Tones ) Packet 4- ( I think both drafts define the same set of parameters in the Event header) By the way, what is the status of draft-mahy-sip-signaled-digits? Thanks Diego Besprosvan MailVision Ltd. Haganim 10/a German Colony, Haifa Israel e-mail: diegob@mailvision.com www.mailvision.com Dean Willis wrote: > While we were arguing about how to handle keypresses, somebody went out > and wrote a draft for an event package for DTMF events. > > Please review the draft: > > http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-zebarth-sipping-dtmfad-00.txt > > As I understand it, the mechanism that this draft is meant to support is > defined in Committee T1 Technical Report T1.TR.82-2003. Unfortunately, I > wasn't able to find said document on the T1 site, but that could just be > me -- perhaps the author can give us a link? > > Questions to consider: Does this approach complement or conflict with > the KPML work? Is there danger of fragmenting, or is this work clearly > seperate? Would the world (or at least the Internet) be a better place > with, or without, this event package? > > Please copy the author, as well as the list, on any responses. I expect > that discussion on this topic will come up during the Minneapolis > meeting. > > Thanks, > > -- > Dean Willis > SIPPING co-chair > > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 09:40:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24939 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEV13-0004zn-JA for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9SEeCEI019188 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEV10-0004zI-Io for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24888 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:39:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEV0y-0004D9-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:08 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEV0y-0004D6-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEV0t-0004wi-DV; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEV0i-0004v0-BA for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:39:52 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24846; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:39:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200310281439.JAA24846@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: sipping@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:39:39 -0500 Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-cc-framework-03.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Proposal Investigation Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Call Control and Multi-party usage framework for the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Author(s) : R. Mahy Filename : draft-ietf-sipping-cc-framework-03.txt Pages : 43 Date : 2003-10-27 This document defines a framework and requirements for multi-party usage of SIP. To enable discussion of multi-party features and applications we define an abstract call model for describing the media relationships required by many of these. The model and actions described here are specifically chosen to be independent of the SIP signaling and/or mixing approach chosen to actually setup the media relationships. In addition to its dialog manipulation aspect, this framework includes requirements for communicating related information and events such as conference and session state, and session history. This framework also describes other goals which embody the spirit of SIP applications as used on the Internet. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-cc-framework-03.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sipping-cc-framework-03.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-cc-framework-03.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-28095732.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-cc-framework-03.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-sipping-cc-framework-03.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-28095732.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 09:40:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24954 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEV14-0004zq-5I for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9SEeCCl019198 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEV11-0004zL-8N for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24891 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:39:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEV0z-0004DH-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:09 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEV0z-0004DE-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEV0v-0004xD-O7; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEV0q-0004vi-5M for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:40:00 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24860; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:39:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200310281439.JAA24860@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: sipping@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:39:47 -0500 Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-config-framework-01.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Proposal Investigation Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Framework for SIP User Agent Configuration Author(s) : D. Petrie Filename : draft-ietf-sipping-config-framework-01.txt Pages : 22 Date : 2003-10-27 This document defines the application of a set of protocols for configuring a SIP user agent. The SIP user agent must discover how and from where to retrieve its initial configuration and be notified of changes and updates which impact its configuration. The objective is to define a means for automatically configuring a user agent such that it can be functional without user or administrative intervention. The framework for discovery, delivery, notification and updates of user agent configuration is defined here. This framework is also intended to ease ongoing administration, configuration and upgrading of large scale deployments of SIP user agents. The contents and format of the configuration data to be defined is outside the scope of this document. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-config-framework-01.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sipping-config-framework-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-config-framework-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-28095746.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-config-framework-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-sipping-config-framework-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-28095746.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 12:10:17 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08808 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:10:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEXLw-0005w5-Q0 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:09:59 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9SH9uTb022814 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:09:56 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEXLw-0005vt-LB for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:09:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08661 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:09:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEXLv-0001RC-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:09:55 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEXLu-0001R9-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:09:54 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEXL3-0005nq-M3; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:09:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEXKv-0005n5-68 for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:08:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08633 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:08:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEXKt-0001Pv-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:08:51 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEXKq-0001Ox-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:08:51 -0500 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Oct 2003 09:06:57 -0800 Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9SH8FjP023269; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:08:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id AMY56451; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:06:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <3F9E4246.3010308@mailvision.com> References: <1067326025.21662.14.camel@kevlar.softarmor.com> <3F9E4246.3010308@mailvision.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <581AB0DA-0969-11D8-98E9-0003938AF740@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: sipping@ietf.org, Dean Willis , Joe Zebarth From: Rohan Mahy Subject: Re: [Sipping] Please Read Committee T1 Draft on DTMF Notification Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:08:26 -0800 To: Diego B X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Oct 28, 2003, at 2:17, Diego B wrote: > hi; > I found this draft very similar to: draft-mahy-sip-signaled-digits-xx > > The differences I found are: > 1- The name of the Event Package > 2- The Notification MIME content-type > 3- How each draft encode an RFC 2833 ( AVT-Tones ) Packet > 4- ( I think both drafts define the same set of parameters in the > Event header) > > By the way, what is the status of draft-mahy-sip-signaled-digits? I abandoned this work in favor of the app-interaction/kpml work. thanks, -rohan mahy > Thanks > > Diego Besprosvan > > MailVision Ltd. > Haganim 10/a > German Colony, Haifa > Israel > e-mail: diegob@mailvision.com > www.mailvision.com > > > > > Dean Willis wrote: >> While we were arguing about how to handle keypresses, somebody went >> out >> and wrote a draft for an event package for DTMF events. >> Please review the draft: >> http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-zebarth-sipping-dtmfad-00.txt >> As I understand it, the mechanism that this draft is meant to support >> is >> defined in Committee T1 Technical Report T1.TR.82-2003. >> Unfortunately, I >> wasn't able to find said document on the T1 site, but that could just >> be >> me -- perhaps the author can give us a link? >> Questions to consider: Does this approach complement or conflict with >> the KPML work? Is there danger of fragmenting, or is this work clearly >> seperate? Would the world (or at least the Internet) be a better place >> with, or without, this event package? >> Please copy the author, as well as the list, on any responses. I >> expect >> that discussion on this topic will come up during the Minneapolis >> meeting. >> Thanks, >> -- >> Dean Willis >> SIPPING co-chair >> _______________________________________________ >> Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping >> This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP >> Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip >> Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 12:17:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09669 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:17:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEXSs-0006k4-K5 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:17:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9SHH6r7025910 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:17:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEXSs-0006jp-FW for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:17:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09652 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:16:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEXSq-0001mK-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:17:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEXSq-0001mH-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:17:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEXSn-0006iH-Hn; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:17:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEXSe-0006hV-F4 for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:16:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09644 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:16:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEXSc-0001m6-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:16:50 -0500 Received: from [207.150.192.11] (helo=furina.request.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEXSb-0001lg-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:16:50 -0500 Received: from mailvision.com ([212.143.127.193]) by furina.request.net with ESMTP id <157845973-14504490>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:15:45 -0500 Message-ID: <3F9EB279.7000403@mailvision.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:16:25 +0200 From: Diego B User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sipping@ietf.org CC: rohan@cisco.com, schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu, jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com Subject: Re: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package-03.txt References: <200310281440.JAA24994@ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <200310281440.JAA24994@ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi; This is right? " Automatic Callback: In this basic Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) application, user A calls user B. User B is busy. User A would like to get a callback when user B hangs up. When B hangs up, user A's phone rings. When A picks it up, they here ringing, and are being connected to B. To implement this with SIP, a mechanism is required for B to receive a notification when the ^ dialogs at A are complete. ^ " In this example, 'A' may receive notifications on the state of 'B' dialog. Tnx Diego Besprosvan MailVision Ltd. Haganim 10/a German Colony, Haifa Israel e-mail: diegob@mailvision.com www.mailvision.com Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Proposal Investigation Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : An INVITE Inititiated Dialog Event Package for the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) > Author(s) : J. Rosenberg, H. Schulzrinne > Filename : draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package-03.txt > Pages : 30 > Date : 2003-10-27 > > This document defines a dialog event package for the SIP Events > architecture, along with a data format used in notifications for this > package. The dialog package allows users to subscribe to another > user, an receive notifications about the changes in state of INVITE > initiated dialogs that the user is involved in. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package-03.txt > > To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to > ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username > "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, > type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package-03.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package-03.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 12:53:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12631 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:53:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEY1n-0002JY-3w for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:53:11 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9SHrBJU008896 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:53:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEY1n-0002JP-0y for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:53:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12567 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:52:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEY1l-0002pg-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:53:09 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEY1k-0002pd-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:53:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEY1d-0002I5-7f; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:53:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEY1A-0002E3-6M for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:52:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12429 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:52:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEY18-0002ms-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:52:30 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEY17-0002mV-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:52:29 -0500 Received: from cisco.com (171.68.223.137) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Oct 2003 09:52:19 -0800 Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9SHpqeu020630; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:51:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id AMY61883; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:49:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <3F9EB279.7000403@mailvision.com> References: <200310281440.JAA24994@ietf.org> <3F9EB279.7000403@mailvision.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <6F381702-096F-11D8-98E9-0003938AF740@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu, sipping@ietf.org, jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com From: Rohan Mahy Subject: Re: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package-03.txt Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:52:01 -0800 To: Diego B X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good catch. The roles are backwards in the last sentence. thanks, -rohan On Oct 28, 2003, at 10:16, Diego B wrote: > Hi; > This is right? > > " > Automatic Callback: In this basic Public Switched Telephone Network > (PSTN) application, user A calls user B. User B is busy. User A > would like to get a callback when user B hangs up. When B hangs > up, user A's phone rings. When A picks it up, they here ringing, > and are being connected to B. To implement this with SIP, a > mechanism is required for B to receive a notification when the > ^ > dialogs at A are complete. > ^ > " > In this example, 'A' may receive notifications on the state of 'B' > dialog. > > > Tnx > > Diego Besprosvan > > MailVision Ltd. > Haganim 10/a > German Colony, Haifa > Israel > e-mail: diegob@mailvision.com > www.mailvision.com > > > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: > >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Proposal >> Investigation Working Group of the IETF. >> Title : An INVITE Inititiated Dialog Event Package for the Session >> Initiation Protocol (SIP) >> Author(s) : J. Rosenberg, H. Schulzrinne >> Filename : draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package-03.txt >> Pages : 30 >> Date : 2003-10-27 >> >> This document defines a dialog event package for the SIP Events >> architecture, along with a data format used in notifications for this >> package. The dialog package allows users to subscribe to another >> user, an receive notifications about the changes in state of INVITE >> initiated dialogs that the user is involved in. >> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-dialog- >> package-03.txt >> To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to >> ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the >> message. >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the >> username >> "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, >> type "cd internet-drafts" and then >> "get draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package-03.txt". >> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >> Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >> Send a message to: >> mailserv@ietf.org. >> In the body type: >> "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package-03.txt". >> >> NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in >> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this >> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" >> command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or >> a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers >> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with >> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split >> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on >> how to manipulate these messages. >> >> >> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >> Internet-Draft. > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 13:47:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16069 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:47:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEYs5-00007t-MZ for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:47:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9SIlDU3000479 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:47:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEYs5-00007e-JA for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:47:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16061 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:47:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEYs3-0004Gt-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:47:11 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEYs2-0004Gq-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:47:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEYru-00005X-3i; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:47:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEYrX-0008VB-MH for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:46:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16040 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:46:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEYrV-0004GG-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:46:37 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEYrU-0004Fp-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:46:37 -0500 Received: from cisco.com (64.102.124.12) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Oct 2003 10:46:26 -0800 Received: from fruitpie.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@fruitpie.cisco.com [64.102.16.27]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9SIk2FH024889; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:46:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from mhammer-w2k03.cisco.com (dhcp-hrn-64-100-229-166.cisco.com [64.100.229.166]) by fruitpie.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id ASB97855; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:46:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20031028134212.00b2b578@cia.cisco.com> X-Sender: mhammer@cia.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:46:00 -0500 To: Rohan Mahy From: Michael Hammer Subject: Re: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package-03.txt Cc: Diego B , schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu, sipping@ietf.org, jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com In-Reply-To: <6F381702-096F-11D8-98E9-0003938AF740@cisco.com> References: <3F9EB279.7000403@mailvision.com> <200310281440.JAA24994@ietf.org> <3F9EB279.7000403@mailvision.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Also known as Completion of Calls to Busy Subscriber (CCBS), I.253.3? Mike At 09:52 AM 10/28/2003 -0800, Rohan Mahy wrote: >Good catch. The roles are backwards in the last sentence. > >thanks, >-rohan > > >On Oct 28, 2003, at 10:16, Diego B wrote: > >>Hi; >>This is right? >> >>" >> Automatic Callback: In this basic Public Switched Telephone Network >> (PSTN) application, user A calls user B. User B is busy. User A >> would like to get a callback when user B hangs up. When B hangs >> up, user A's phone rings. When A picks it up, they here ringing, >> and are being connected to B. To implement this with SIP, a >> mechanism is required for B to receive a notification when the >> ^ >> dialogs at A are complete. >> ^ >>" >>In this example, 'A' may receive notifications on the state of 'B' >>dialog. >> >> >>Tnx >> >>Diego Besprosvan >> >>MailVision Ltd. >>Haganim 10/a >>German Colony, Haifa >>Israel >>e-mail: diegob@mailvision.com >>www.mailvision.com >> >> >>Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote: >> >>>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>directories. >>>This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Proposal >>>Investigation Working Group of the IETF. >>> Title : An INVITE Inititiated Dialog Event Package >>> for the Session >>>Initiation Protocol (SIP) >>> Author(s) : J. Rosenberg, H. Schulzrinne >>> Filename : draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package-03.txt >>> Pages : 30 >>> Date : 2003-10-27 >>> >>>This document defines a dialog event package for the SIP Events >>>architecture, along with a data format used in notifications for this >>>package. The dialog package allows users to subscribe to another >>>user, an receive notifications about the changes in state of INVITE >>>initiated dialogs that the user is involved in. >>>A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >>>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-dialog- >>>package-03.txt >>>To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to >>>ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the >>>message. >>>Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the >>>username >>>"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, >>>type "cd internet-drafts" and then >>> "get draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package-03.txt". >>>A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >>>http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or >>>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >>>Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. >>>Send a message to: >>> mailserv@ietf.org. >>>In the body type: >>> "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-dialog-package-03.txt". >>> >>>NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in >>> MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this >>> feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" >>> command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or >>> a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail >>> readers >>> exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with >>> "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split >>> up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on >>> how to manipulate these messages. >>> >>> >>>Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >>>implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >>>Internet-Draft. > > >_______________________________________________ >Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping >This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP >Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip >Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 13:51:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16349 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:51:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEYvn-0000ld-T5 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:51:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9SIp3tH002943 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:51:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEYvn-0000lO-Pb for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:51:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16293 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:50:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEYvl-0004KU-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:51:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEYvl-0004KQ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:51:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEYvm-0000ho-C7; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:51:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEYvG-0000eK-Mw for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:50:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16235 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:50:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEYvE-0004Jk-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:50:28 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEYvD-0004J7-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:50:27 -0500 Received: from flask.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@flask.cisco.com [161.44.122.62]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9SInqjR022881 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 10:49:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from cisco.com ([161.44.79.51]) by flask.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id ADN31279; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:49:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3F9EBA4F.4010600@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:49:51 -0500 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sipping@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] Re: draft-ietf-sipping-app-interaction-framework-00 Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jonathan, I have a couple of comments about this version, below. Paul Section 5.2: To authenticate themselves, it is RECOMMENDED that applications use the SIP identity mechanism [11] in the REFER or SUBSCRIBE requests they generate. A UA will need to authorize these subscriptions and refers. To do this, a UA SHOULD accept any REFER or SUBSCRIBE sent to the GRUU it used for that dialog. This would imply that only elements privy to the INVITE requests and responses could send a REFER or SUBSCRIBE to the UA. The usage of the sips URI scheme provides cryptographic assurances that only elements on the call setup path could see such information. Therefore, it is RECOMMENDED that UAs compliant to this specification use sips whenever possible. A client SHOULD use grid parameters with sufficient randomness to eliminate the possibility of an attacker guessing the GRUU. This seems a bit loose. It isn't always going to be practical to use sips. (The callee may not support it.) Without it there is danger. What is the recommendation in that case? Section 5.4: A client can remove a UI component at any time. For presentation aware UI, this is analagous to the user dismissing the web form window. There is no mechanism provided for reporting this kind of event to the application. The initial refer created an implicit subscription. It is possible, but not required by the event mechanism, for event generation to continue for the life of the resulting interface component. If so, a suitable event could signal the termination of the interface component. _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 13:52:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16420 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:52:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEYwm-00017Y-J8 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:52:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9SIq419004299 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:52:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEYwm-00017G-El for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:52:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16380 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:51:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEYwj-0004M8-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:52:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEYwj-0004M5-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:52:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEYwk-00011c-Ue; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:52:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEYwJ-0000yS-5J for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:51:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16365; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:51:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEYwG-0004Ld-00; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:51:32 -0500 Received: from d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com ([194.196.100.234]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEYwG-0004KR-00; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:51:32 -0500 Received: from d12relay01.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12relay01.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.180]) by d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9SIp0fw045604; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:51:00 +0100 Received: from d10ml001.telaviv.ibm.com (d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.228]) by d12relay01.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.9/NCO/VER6.6) with ESMTP id h9SIoxGg276264; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:50:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: To: sipping@ietf.org, MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build V65_07292003 July 29, 2003 Message-ID: From: Avshalom Houri Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:50:42 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D10ML001/10/M/IBM(Release 6.0.2CF2|July 23, 2003) at 28/10/2003 20:50:59, Serialize complete at 28/10/2003 20:50:59 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 006783EEC2256DCD_=" Subject: [Sipping] New conferencing drafts Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 006783EEC2256DCD_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Following conferencing drafts appeared. I wonder what should be now the relationship between the work in SIPPING and XCON regarding conferencing. I had the impression that the work is moving to XCON. Was it a false impression? http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-conference-package-02.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-cc-conferencing-02.txt Thanks Avshalom --=_alternative 006783EEC2256DCD_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Following conferencing drafts appeared. I wonder what should be now the relationship between
the work in SIPPING  and XCON regarding conferencing.
I had the impression that the work is moving to XCON. Was it a false impression?

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-conference-package-02.txt
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-cc-conferencing-02.txt

Thanks
Avshalom
--=_alternative 006783EEC2256DCD_=-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 15:08:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20642 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:08:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEa8Q-00030C-Sd for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:08:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9SK8AHI011528 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:08:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEa8Q-0002zp-9f for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:08:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20589 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:07:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEa8M-0005jj-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:08:06 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEa8M-0005jg-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:08:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEa8K-0002wi-NS; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:08:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEa7x-0002qg-94 for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:07:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20530 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:07:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEa7t-0005iq-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:07:37 -0500 Received: from mailgate.pit.comms.marconi.com ([169.144.68.6]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEa7t-0005i7-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:07:37 -0500 Received: from mailman.pit.comms.marconi.com (mailman.pit.comms.marconi.com [169.144.2.12]) by mailgate.pit.comms.marconi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14295; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:07:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from uspitsmsgrtr01.pit.comms.marconi.com (uspitsmsgrtr01.pit.comms.marconi.com [169.144.2.221]) by mailman.pit.comms.marconi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07523; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:07:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by uspitsmsgrtr01.pit.comms.marconi.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:07:06 -0500 Message-ID: <313680C9A886D511A06000204840E1CF070B6046@whq-msgusr-02.pit.comms.marconi.com> From: "Rosen, Brian" To: "'Rohan Mahy'" Cc: "'sipping@ietf.org'" Subject: RE: [Sipping] Brian's Comments on draft-mahy-sipping-user-equals- Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:07:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > > The introduction must define dial strings, and differentiate them > > from local phone numbers. > > I think this is the crux of the disagreement. I don't think it is > possible to give a rigorous definition of what is a dial string and > what is a local number. I invite you to describe an > algorithm you can > use to determine which is which. If you can then I'll incorporate it > in the draft, but I am skeptical that such a distinction is testable > any more than the distinction between "erotic art" and "pornography". A dial string is a series of digits, and */# characters entered directly or indirectly by a user. They are interpreted in a local dial plan, to a local or global number, or a service invocation. A local number is an address of an endpoint in a locally defined numbering scheme. It is often the case that a local number is the same series of digits in that domain's dial plan, but it is rarely true that there is a one to one correspondence, and many dialing strings may be translated to global numbers, while others may be translated to local numbers, or they may not be addresses of endpoints at all -- they can be service invocation indicators. > > > It should introduce the idea that a > > proxy in the listed domain of a dial string must translate > to a global > > or local number, and that some phones will do this translation > > themselves while others will not. > > > > Section 5 inadequately deals with dial strings. Dial > strings are not > > local numbers, and must be translated to local numbers. One must > > disambiguate dial strings from local numbers because it is possible > > that > > they collide. Such a differentiation is also useful to know when > > translation has been completed. > > i don't think they can collide because they are in different contexts Only if you define them separately, and explicitly deal with establishing separate contexts, as has been proposed. The text is not explicit about that. > > > It has been proposed to use separate contexts for dial strings and > > local numbers. I generally don't like this idea, but it can be made > > to work. It would be best if there was some kind of naming > convention > > to differentiate, but this is not strictly necessary. > > > > What is necessary is text in a document: > > 1. Saying that dial strings aren't local numbers > > 2. Permitting dial strings in a sip uri, with a dial > string context. > > Note: if you wish to permit a dial string in a > tel uri, then > > the language in 2806bis must be modified, IMO. > > 3. Explicitly defining the use of E/F > > 4. Illustrating the use of separate contexts for dial strings > > 5. Discussing the provisioning implications of having two > > local contexts, one for phones with translation and > > another for phones without translation > > I thought I covered this last one a bit in the draft. A phone that > doesn't know its context can just use *itself* as the context. That > requires no configuration. A phone that has a digit map obviously > needs to be configured with it, so explicitly setting the target > context or domain (or both) should be no problem IMO. While I can imagine that many systems would work with "self" It's not going to work in the general case, because the interpreter of the digits may be handling multiple domains. Also, do you think we should leave it ambiguous whether a phone with a digitmap translates dialstrings to local numbers (ie tel uris) or to user@domain, where domain might be numeric? I didn't like the "context or domain (or both)" part of the statement above. Too many options, too many chances for proxy servers to assume something a UA doesn't assume. ....snip.... > > We also should define a way to express a dial string with > pauses and > > waits. > > They are pretty useful. They are dialable in many gateways. We need > > a way to send such a string. Again, we need text, and > again, we could > > use a separate context for such strings. No comment here? We need something, somewhere about this. _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 15:31:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA23718 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:31:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEaUf-0006oo-96 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:31:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9SKV9IY026202 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:31:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEaUf-0006oX-51 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:31:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA23631 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:30:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEaUd-0006Jx-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:31:07 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEaUd-0006Ju-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:31:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEaUZ-0006j7-7x; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:31:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEaUI-0006h8-FY for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:30:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA23608; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:30:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEaUH-0006JK-00; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:30:45 -0500 Received: from dgesmtp02.wcom.com ([199.249.16.17]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEaUG-0006IM-00; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:30:44 -0500 Received: from pmismtp01.wcomnet.com ([166.38.62.36]) by firewall.wcom.com (Iplanet MTA 5.2) with ESMTP id <0HNH005MJI08ZG@firewall.wcom.com>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:24:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pmismtp01.wcomnet.com by pmismtp01.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with SMTP id <0HNH00701I07XQ@pmismtp01.wcomnet.com>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:24:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from xs578v3521.mci.com ([166.50.110.23]) by pmismtp01.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HNH007D2I057A@pmismtp01.wcomnet.com>; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:24:07 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 14:24:05 -0600 From: Alan Johnston X-Sender: Alan.Johnston@pop.mcit.com To: Avshalom Houri , sipping@ietf.org, xcon@ietf.org Message-id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031028142114.02b4dbb0@pop.mcit.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed References: Subject: [Sipping] Re: [XCON] New conferencing drafts Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi Avshalom, Your impression was false. The SIP-specific conferencing work will remain in the SIP and SIPPING WGs - this includes the listed drafts plus the framework document and the definition of the "isfocus" feature tag. All the policy work (media and conference) plus floor control is what will be covered in XCON. Thanks, Alan Johnston XCON co-chair At 08:50 PM 10/28/2003 +0200, Avshalom Houri wrote: >Following conferencing drafts appeared. I wonder what should be now the >relationship between >the work in SIPPING and XCON regarding conferencing. >I had the impression that the work is moving to XCON. Was it a false >impression? > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-conference-package-02.txt > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-cc-conferencing-02.txt > >Thanks >Avshalom _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 15:46:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25841 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEajB-0001hL-Vk for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9SKk9eS006515 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEajB-0001gz-Pu for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25765 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:45:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEajA-0006mP-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:08 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEaj9-0006mJ-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEaj4-0001ae-UC; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEaiP-0001OK-Tz for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:45:21 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25571; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:45:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200310282045.PAA25571@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: sipping@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:45:10 -0500 Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-conferencing-framework-01.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Proposal Investigation Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Framework for Conferencing with the Session Initiation Protocol Author(s) : J. Rosenberg Filename : draft-ietf-sipping-conferencing-framework-01.txt Pages : 45 Date : 2003-10-28 The Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) supports the initiation, modification, and termination of media sessions between user agents. These sessions are managed by SIP dialogs, which represent a SIP relationship between a pair of user agents. Because dialogs are between pairs of user agents, SIP's usage for two-party communications (such as a phone call), is obvious. Communications sessions with multiple participants, generally known as conferencing, are more complicated. This document defines a framework for how such conferencing can occur. This framework describes the overall architecture, terminology, and protocol components needed for multi- party conferencing. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-conferencing-framework-01.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sipping-conferencing-framework-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-conferencing-framework-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-28155947.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-conferencing-framework-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-sipping-conferencing-framework-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-28155947.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 16:34:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25842 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEajC-0001hV-1W for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9SKk9oS006529 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEajB-0001h0-RG for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25767 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:45:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEajA-0006mM-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:08 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEaj9-0006mI-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEaj5-0001bI-Vv; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEaiY-0001R2-2D for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:45:30 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25613; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:45:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200310282045.PAA25613@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: sipping@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:45:18 -0500 Subject: [Sipping] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-sipping-3pcc-05.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Session Initiation Proposal Investigation Working Group of the IETF. Title : Best Current Practices for Third Party Call Control in the Session Initiation Protocol Author(s) : J. Rosenberg, J. Peterson, H. Schulzrinne, G. Camarillo Filename : draft-ietf-sipping-3pcc-05.txt Pages : 31 Date : 2003-10-28 Third party call control refers to the ability of one entity to create a call in which communications is actually between other parties. Third party call control is possible using the mechanisms specified within the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP). However, there are several possible approaches, each with different benefits and drawbacks. This document discusses best current practices for the usage of the SIP for third party call control. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-3pcc-05.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-sipping-3pcc-05.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-3pcc-05.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-28160022.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-3pcc-05.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-sipping-3pcc-05.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-28160022.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 29 01:43:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA27709 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:43:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEk2w-0002Km-Eo for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:43:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9T6hA8H008968 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:43:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEk2w-0002KZ-7j for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:43:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA27700 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:42:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEk2s-0002an-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:43:06 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEk2s-0002aj-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:43:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEk2n-0002Il-1W; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEk1o-0002F0-Qd for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:42:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA27680 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:41:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEk1l-0002Zy-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:41:57 -0500 Received: from [61.51.141.6] (helo=mail.udtech.com.cn) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEk1f-0002Zm-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 01:41:54 -0500 Received: from zwx (dns.udtech.com.cn [192.168.0.254]) (authenticated (0 bits)) by mail.udtech.com.cn (8.12.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id h9T6cmDp004277 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:38:48 +0800 Message-ID: <019a01c39de7$a5e684e0$b400a8c0@zwx> From: "wendy" To: Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:41:14 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] about digest authentication Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I meet a trouble when developping a b2bua as a SIP ALG to traverse NAT. The network topology is like this: private UA --- SIP ALG --- SIP Server (public) When the private UA registers to the SIP Server, the SIP ALG can forward authentication CHALLENGE from the SIP Server to the private UA, and forward authentication RESPONSE from the private UA to the SIP Server. In some cases, e.g. the public IP address of the SIP ALG is changed, I hope the SIP ALG can initiate a registration as a substitute of the private UA. Thus, the private UA does not need to care the SIP ALG's changes. But how can the SIP ALG be authenticated successfully, if the administrator of the SIP ALG does not want to configure manually the usernames/passwords of all private users? Thanks a lot! regards, Wendy _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 29 02:17:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA12806 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:17:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEkZm-0007oZ-FX for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:17:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9T7H6wr030033 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:17:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEkZm-0007oB-8r for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:17:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA12383 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:16:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEkZh-000348-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:17:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEkZh-000343-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:17:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEkZh-0007mA-MQ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:17:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEkZN-0007j7-WB for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:16:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA12035; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:16:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEkZK-00033c-00; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:16:38 -0500 Received: from [63.113.44.69] (helo=mail3.dynamicsoft.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEkZJ-00033J-00; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:16:37 -0500 Received: from dynamicsoft.com ([63.113.46.68]) by mail3.dynamicsoft.com (8.12.8/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h9T7G6ca007491; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:16:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3F9F6933.3010508@dynamicsoft.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:16:03 -0500 From: Jonathan Rosenberg Organization: dynamicsoft User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mmusic@ietf.org, sipping Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] Updated ICE specification Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, I have submitted an update to ICE. Based on agreement at the last ietf, it is now a work item of MMUSIC. Until the I-D appears in the archives, you can pick up a copy at: http://www.jdrosen.net/papers/draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-00.txt http://www.jdrosen.net/papers/draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-00.html There were many changes since the last revision: * The draft is now SIP and offer/answer independent. The way I achieved this was to describe ICE as an abstract protocol, and then define mappings from that abstract protocol to concrete ones. A mapping is included for SIP, using the SDP alt parameter extension and Gonzalo's new IPV group semantic. * The spec now mandates that a client, in addition to be configured with one or more relay servers (i.e., turn), needs to know which of those are on the public internet. This would be through configuration. This information is needed only for backwards compatibility with non-ice clients. * In an update to TURN, I added a Send mechanism which allows relay of outbound requests. ICE now includes usage of this mechanism. Its needed for inter-enterprise calls where the media needs to pass through two relays, one in each domain. * I added some text on backwads compatibility processing when the caller realizes that the callee doesnt support ICE. * peer derived transport addresses learned by Sending (using the TURN Send primitive) a STUN request through a TURN relay have the same priority as turn derived transport addresses. Thanks, Jonathan R. -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 600 Lanidex Plaza Chief Technology Officer Parsippany, NJ 07054-2711 dynamicsoft jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (973) 952-5050 http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (973) 952-5000 http://www.dynamicsoft.com _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 29 02:24:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA19817 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:24:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEkgY-0000T6-UU for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:24:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9T7O6Yp001798 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:24:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEkgY-0000Sv-7m for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:24:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA19331 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:23:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEkgU-0003BS-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:24:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEkgT-0003BP-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:24:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEkgV-0000Ra-Tv; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:24:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEkgP-0000R9-OV for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:23:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA19178 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:23:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEkgL-0003B5-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:23:53 -0500 Received: from [63.113.44.69] (helo=mail3.dynamicsoft.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEkgL-0003AV-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:23:53 -0500 Received: from dynamicsoft.com ([63.113.46.68]) by mail3.dynamicsoft.com (8.12.8/8.12.1) with ESMTP id h9T7NNca007495 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:23:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3F9F6AE9.7000306@dynamicsoft.com> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:23:21 -0500 From: Jonathan Rosenberg Organization: dynamicsoft User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sipping Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] Updated NAT scenarios document Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, I've submitted an update to the NAT scenarios specification. This change represents a total rewrite to be based entirely on ICE, rather than presenting the hodge-podge of solutions that were in the previous version. Due to the scope of this change, I submitted as an individual I-D. It should appear in the archives shortly. Until it does, you can pick up a copy at: http://www.jdrosen.net/papers/draft-rosenberg-sipping-nat-scenarios-01.txt http://www.jdrosen.net/papers/draft-rosenberg-sipping-nat-scenarios-01.html Much of the content in this document comes from the back of the previous ICE specification, which included many example flows. The call flows for the enterprise cases have been updated. In particular, an inter-enterprise case is now shown, where two relays are involved - one in each enterprise. This is accomplished through a new feature I added into TURN, which is a Send primitive for relaying a packet through a TURN server. The examples also show a network topology for an "advanced enterprise" which makes use of two relays - one inside, and one outside, of the nat/firewall. Such a configuration has some security benefits and avoids the need for any configuration on the nat/fw. Call flows have yet to be added for this case though. Gonzalo also contributed some examples on how ICE facilitates v4/v6 transition, and those are included as well. Comments and questions welcome. Thanks, Jonathan R. -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. 600 Lanidex Plaza Chief Technology Officer Parsippany, NJ 07054-2711 dynamicsoft jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com FAX: (973) 952-5050 http://www.jdrosen.net PHONE: (973) 952-5000 http://www.dynamicsoft.com _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 29 08:11:47 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA06230 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:11:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEq6f-0001mh-0j for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:11:26 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9TDBONP006853 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:11:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEq6e-0001mS-TM for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:11:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA06165 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:11:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEq6d-0000NG-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:11:23 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEq6d-0000ND-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:11:23 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEq6H-0001a4-Vi; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:11:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEq5e-0001Oe-Lo for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:10:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA06077 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:10:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEq5d-0000Lz-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:10:21 -0500 Received: from [65.220.123.3] (helo=mail.pingtel.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEq5c-0000Lw-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:10:21 -0500 Received: from kathmandu.pingtel.com (kathmandu.pingtel.com [10.1.1.252]) by mail.pingtel.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h9TDAJ326553; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:10:19 -0500 To: "wendy" Cc: Reply-To: sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu References: <019a01c39de7$a5e684e0$b400a8c0@zwx> Organization: Pingtel Corp. http://www.pingtel.com/ From: Scott Lawrence Mail-Followup-To: sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:10:18 -0500 In-Reply-To: <019a01c39de7$a5e684e0$b400a8c0@zwx> (xyxie@udtech.com.cn's message of "Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:41:14 +0800") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1001 (Gnus v5.10.1) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Sipping] Re: about digest authentication Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , "wendy" writes: > I meet a trouble when developping a b2bua as a SIP ALG to traverse NAT. This question would be more appropriately asked on sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu (questions on current sip) > The network topology is like this: > > private UA --- SIP ALG --- SIP Server (public) > > When the private UA registers to the SIP Server, > the SIP ALG can forward authentication CHALLENGE from the SIP Server to the > private UA, > and forward authentication RESPONSE from the private UA to the SIP Server. > > In some cases, e.g. the public IP address of the SIP ALG is changed, > I hope the SIP ALG can initiate a registration as a substitute of the > private UA. > Thus, the private UA does not need to care the SIP ALG's changes. > But how can the SIP ALG be authenticated successfully, > if the administrator of the SIP ALG does not want to configure manually the > usernames/passwords of all private users? What changes do you want to make in the ALG that would invalidate the authentication parameters? -- Scott Lawrence Pingtel Corp. _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 29 11:57:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18963 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:57:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEtd3-0008TR-B5 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:57:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9TGv567032524 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:57:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEtd3-0008SK-1w for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:57:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18923 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:56:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEtd1-0004uU-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:57:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEtd1-0004uR-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:57:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEtd0-0008Q4-5h; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:57:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEtci-0008OG-TX for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:56:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18895 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:56:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEtch-0004th-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:56:43 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEtcf-0004sj-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:56:43 -0500 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 29 Oct 2003 17:53:55 +0100 Received: from wells.cisco.com (wells.cisco.com [171.71.177.223]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h9TGtxiw028128 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:56:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from jmpolk-w2k01.diablo.cisco.com (ssh-sjc-1.cisco.com [171.68.225.134]) by wells.cisco.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/CISCO.SERVER.1.2) with ESMTP id IAA17257 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:55:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20031029104738.02114ed8@localhost> X-Sender: jmpolk@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:55:58 -0500 To: sipping@ietf.org From: "James M. Polk" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [Sipping] New Location Conveyance ID posted Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , All Brian Rosen and I have updated the Location Conveyance ID. It can be found at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-sipping-location-requirements-01.txt The Abstract is as follows: This document presents the framework and requirements for an extension to the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) for conveyance of user location information from a Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) user agent to another SIP entity. We consider cases where location information is conveyed from end to end, as well as cases where message routing by intermediaries is influenced by the location of the session initiator. There are a number of open issues listed near the end of the document that need to be addressed Comments are appreciated cheers, James ******************* Truth is not to be argued... it is to be presented _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 29 22:05:13 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA22002 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:05:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AF37B-0004mi-CK for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:04:54 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9U34nCW018386 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:04:49 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AF37B-0004mT-8j for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:04:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA21990 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:04:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AF378-0003Jz-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:04:46 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AF377-0003Jw-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:04:45 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AF36P-0004V2-Jy; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:04:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AF35a-0004Qm-OJ for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:03:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA21937 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:02:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AF35X-0003JC-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:03:07 -0500 Received: from goalie.snowshore.com ([216.57.133.4] helo=webshield.office.snowshore.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AF35X-0003Iq-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:03:07 -0500 Received: from zoe.office.snowshore.com(192.168.1.172) by webshield.office.snowshore.com via csmap id 19989; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:10:17 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Sipping] Please Read Committee T1 Draft on DTMF Notification Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:02:37 -0500 Message-ID: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F68C8@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Thread-Topic: [Sipping] Please Read Committee T1 Draft on DTMF Notification Thread-Index: AcOdJSXIkmtPPfzbSHeVRouwnJerkgBaW6/Q From: "Eric Burger" To: "Dean Willis" , Cc: "Joe Zebarth" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The KPML update is in the archives; I just haven't seen the = announcement: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-sipping-kpml-01.txt Things I like in dtmfad: 1. Explicit maxrate (but see below) 2. "Handshook" throttling (although isn't that normal SIP: no = overlapping transactions?) 3. Very simple and compact 4. Described forking and state agent behavior (I forgot!) Things I don't like: 1. The model is worse than MGCP. An event for every key press? If you = are interested in such low-level control, use H.248. 2. The model only works for a B2BUA or machine end point. The far end = is the only entity that can request digit monitoring. OK for a = "softswitch", but not necessarily desirable in an Applications and = Services Infrastructure. 3. Duration: On the one hand, it is handy to be able to define what = "long" is. However, this is a disaster. What if I set "duration=3D50" = and I hold the octothorpe key down for 6 seconds? I will get 120 NOTIFY = messages in that time. That isn't helpful for traffic shaping. What = does the application do with all of those messages? The model is taken = directly from RFC2833 (keep emitting tone and mark the end-of-tone) -- = why not just use RFC2833 and be done with it? Eating a low-rate RTP = stream has GOT to be easier than implementing a RFC3261 stack! 4. Hex codes don't really fit into the SIP gestalt. Why not encode the = information in a straightforward manner? One cannot argue for = compactness -- if one is going to live with 600+ bytes of SIP headers = (see the example in the document), one can have a 35-byte text message = that means something instead of a 12-byte "binary" message that is = indecipherable. Things I am open to: 1. Volume: Does anyone need this? What for? How would you know? What = would you do with it? Not for falsing detection: that is what the = detection device should be doing. If there is a good use case, I could = see implementing it. Then again, what do you do for RFC2833 digit = detection (no volume)? 2. Maxrate: I'm leaning towards not liking it, but I'm open to it. First, the SUBSCRIBER here only specifies its own ability to process = NOTIFY requests. Using this as a network-saving device isn't going to = work: how does the subscriber have any idea what to set this to?=20 Second, the default maxrate is one message every 16ms, or faster than = G.711. What could this be possibly useful for? Third (and the big one), the whole point of transporting digits in the = signaling path is because the digits *are* signaling. Said differently, = the application needs reliable delivery of signaling (digits). If the = use case for this package allows unreliable delivery, then I would be = very interested in understanding why one is not using RFC2833, which has = EVERYTHING discussed in this draft, available today? > -----Original Message----- > From: Dean Willis [mailto:dean.willis@softarmor.com] > Sent: Tue, October 28, 2003 2:27 AM > To: sipping@ietf.org > Cc: Joe Zebarth > Subject: [Sipping] Please Read Committee T1 Draft on DTMF Notification >=20 >=20 > While we were arguing about how to handle keypresses,=20 > somebody went out > and wrote a draft for an event package for DTMF events. >=20 > Please review the draft: >=20 > http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-zebarth-sipping-dtmfad-00.txt >=20 > As I understand it, the mechanism that this draft is meant to=20 > support is > defined in Committee T1 Technical Report T1.TR.82-2003.=20 > Unfortunately, I > wasn't able to find said document on the T1 site, but that=20 > could just be > me -- perhaps the author can give us a link? >=20 > Questions to consider: Does this approach complement or conflict with > the KPML work? Is there danger of fragmenting, or is this work clearly > seperate? Would the world (or at least the Internet) be a better place > with, or without, this event package? >=20 > Please copy the author, as well as the list, on any=20 > responses. I expect > that discussion on this topic will come up during the Minneapolis > meeting. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > -- > Dean Willis > SIPPING co-chair >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping > This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 30 04:06:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA14503 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 04:06:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AF8kr-0001sb-Kl for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 04:06:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9U969B8007219 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 04:06:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AF8kr-0001sM-76 for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 04:06:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA14490 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 04:05:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AF8kn-0007lu-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 04:06:05 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AF8kn-0007lq-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 04:06:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AF8km-0001qy-Cg; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 04:06:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEUTv-0007hj-Uv for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:06:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20761 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:05:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEUTu-00038y-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:05:58 -0500 Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.157]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEUTt-00038U-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:05:57 -0500 Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69]) by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h9SE5KX27165; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:05:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:05:21 -0500 Message-ID: <0D7FC1D8D861D511AEA70002A52CE5E608102CDE@zcard0ke.ca.nortel.com> From: "Joe Zebarth" To: sipping@ietf.org Cc: Dean Willis Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:05:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C39D5C.863BC744" Subject: [Sipping] RE: Please Read Committee T1 Draft on DTMF Notification Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39D5C.863BC744 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Colleagues The T1 prepublished document can be found at: http://www.t1.org/filemgr/filesearch.taf?_function=detail&T1_Files_uid1=3S17 0632 Note that the zip file is 251 k and the uncompressed is 1.4 M Kindest regards, Joe Zebarth Dept. 1A12 ATI Strategic Standards Nortel Networks (Canada) Phone: +1 613 765 8481 ESN: 6+395 8481 Fax: +1 613 763 2697 ESN: 6+393 2697 http://www.nortelnetworks.com -----Original Message----- From: Dean Willis [mailto:dean.willis@softarmor.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 2:27 AM To: sipping@ietf.org Cc: Zebarth, Joe [CAR:1A12:EXCH] Subject: Please Read Committee T1 Draft on DTMF Notification While we were arguing about how to handle keypresses, somebody went out and wrote a draft for an event package for DTMF events. Please review the draft: http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-zebarth-sipping-dtmfad-00.txt As I understand it, the mechanism that this draft is meant to support is defined in Committee T1 Technical Report T1.TR.82-2003. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find said document on the T1 site, but that could just be me -- perhaps the author can give us a link? Questions to consider: Does this approach complement or conflict with the KPML work? Is there danger of fragmenting, or is this work clearly seperate? Would the world (or at least the Internet) be a better place with, or without, this event package? Please copy the author, as well as the list, on any responses. I expect that discussion on this topic will come up during the Minneapolis meeting. Thanks, -- Dean Willis SIPPING co-chair ------_=_NextPart_001_01C39D5C.863BC744 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Please Read Committee T1 Draft on DTMF Notification

Colleagues

The T1 prepublished document can be found at:

http://www.t1.org/filemgr/filesearch.taf?_function=3Dd= etail&T1_Files_uid1=3D3S170632

Note that the zip file is 251 k and the uncompressed = is 1.4 M

Kindest regards,

Joe Zebarth
Dept. 1A12
ATI Strategic Standards
Nortel Networks (Canada)
Phone: +1 613 765 8481
ESN:    6+395 8481
Fax:     +1 613 763 2697
ESN:    6+393 2697
http://www.nortelnetworks.com
 



-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Willis [mailto:dean.willis@softarmor.c= om]
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 2:27 AM
To: sipping@ietf.org
Cc: Zebarth, Joe [CAR:1A12:EXCH]
Subject: Please Read Committee T1 Draft on DTMF = Notification


While we were arguing about how to handle keypresses, = somebody went out
and wrote a draft for an event package for DTMF = events.

Please review the draft:

http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-zebarth-sippi= ng-dtmfad-00.txt

As I understand it, the mechanism that this draft is = meant to support is
defined in Committee T1 Technical Report = T1.TR.82-2003. Unfortunately, I
wasn't able to find said document on the T1 site, = but that could just be
me -- perhaps the author can give us a link?

Questions to consider: Does this approach complement = or conflict with
the KPML work? Is there danger of fragmenting, or is = this work clearly
seperate? Would the world (or at least the Internet) = be a better place
with, or without, this event package?

Please copy the author, as well as the list, on any = responses. I expect
that discussion on this topic will come up during = the Minneapolis
meeting.

Thanks,

--
Dean Willis
SIPPING co-chair

------_=_NextPart_001_01C39D5C.863BC744-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 30 09:47:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA23809 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:47:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFE4u-00041o-NQ for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:47:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9UElCtJ015480 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:47:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFE4u-00041b-JD for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:47:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA23745 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:47:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFE4s-0004G5-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:47:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFE4s-0004G1-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:47:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFE4k-0003yh-Oz; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:47:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFE47-0003vR-Ga for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:46:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA23688 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:46:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFE45-0004Ep-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:46:21 -0500 Received: from mailgate.pit.comms.marconi.com ([169.144.68.6]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFE45-0004EF-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:46:21 -0500 Received: from mailman.pit.comms.marconi.com (mailman.pit.comms.marconi.com [169.144.2.12]) by mailgate.pit.comms.marconi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11185; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:45:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from uspitsmsgrtr01.pit.comms.marconi.com (uspitsmsgrtr01.pit.comms.marconi.com [169.144.2.221]) by mailman.pit.comms.marconi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11729; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:45:42 -0500 (EST) Received: by uspitsmsgrtr01.pit.comms.marconi.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:45:40 -0500 Message-ID: <313680C9A886D511A06000204840E1CF070B605A@whq-msgusr-02.pit.comms.marconi.com> From: "Rosen, Brian" To: "'Rupert Kruger (RC)'" , "'sipping@ietf.org'" Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:45:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Sipping] RE: [Sip] Basic question Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Please have a look at http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-ietf-sipping-conferencing-framework -01.txt http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-ietf-sipping-cc-conferencing-02.txt and http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-ietf-sipping-conference-package-02. txt In general, the sip conferencing model currently being specified encompasses mixing in the end devices as well as centralized mixing. From a signalling standpoint, both of these mechanisms look the same - each participant will have a simple 1on1 call between itself and a "focus". The focus will arrange the media streams to be sent to the mixer. Thus, the focus appears to be a coordinated set of sip User Agents, one for each participant. This is somewhat similar to an H.323 MCU, but there are model differences. The conference is referenced by a conference URI. This URI may be registered in one way or another with a Registrar so that a call to that URI reaches the focus, which is one way to join a conference. Please also note that there is a new work group, xcon, which is working on the policy and media aspects of this work. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: Rupert Kruger (RC) [mailto:Krugerrc@telkom.co.za] > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 5:02 AM > To: sip@ietf.org > Subject: [Sip] Basic question > > > Hi, > > I'm fairly new to SIP, and need help: For multipoint video > conferencing, in H.323, one had the MCU that registers with the > gatekeeper. But for SIP, there are only three basic servers: Proxy, > Redirect, and Registrar - so I cannot see where a SIP "MCU" would come > in. Will it be some sort of server, or a UA that has multiple > connections? What does the architecture look like for a conference > with 3 or more SIP end-users? > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Rupert Kruger > > _______________________________________________ > Sip mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip > This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol > Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip > Use sipping@ietf.org for new developments on the application of sip > _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 30 11:14:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28821 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:14:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFFR3-0007Cf-Ar for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:14:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9UGE9DJ027685 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:14:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFFR3-0007CS-5m for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:14:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28795 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:13:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFFR2-0005fd-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:14:08 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFFR2-0005fa-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:14:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFFQv-00079y-I8; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:14:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFFQn-000791-6l for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:13:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28784 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:13:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFFQm-0005fH-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:13:52 -0500 Received: from mailgate.siemenscomms.co.uk ([194.129.217.115]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFFQl-0005f4-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:13:51 -0500 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.siemenscomms.co.uk by siemenscomms.co.uk (PMDF V6.0-24 #40642) id <0HNK00E01VMDS6@siemenscomms.co.uk> for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:11:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from beex10.siemenscomms.co.uk ([137.223.246.252]) by siemenscomms.co.uk (PMDF V6.0-24 #40642) with ESMTP id <0HNK00EB6VJAR7@siemenscomms.co.uk> for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:09:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: by BEEX10 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:09:41 +0000 Content-return: allowed Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:03:39 +0000 From: "Elwell, John" To: sipping@ietf.org Message-id: <50B1CBA96870A34799A506B2313F266761FE54@ntht201e> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_2SIYmRIwpjRyRuLBuWz3BQ)" Subject: [Sipping] draft-elwell-sipping-qsig-tunnel-01.txt Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --Boundary_(ID_2SIYmRIwpjRyRuLBuWz3BQ) Content-type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This file now appears in the archives but I have not seen an announcement. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-elwell-sipping-qsig-tunnel-01.txt Abstract: This document specifies tunnelling of "QSIG" over the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP). This enables calls between "islands" of circuit switched networks that use QSIG signalling to be interconnected by an IP network that uses SIP signalling without loss of QSIG functionality. Compared with version 00 it uses a different technique for ensuring that the egress UA supports QSIG tunnelling. Instead of defining a new option tag it makes use of the MIME Content-Disposition header containing "handling-required" for this purpose. This means that no new protocol is defined. John (john.elwell@siemens.com) --Boundary_(ID_2SIYmRIwpjRyRuLBuWz3BQ) Content-type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT draft-elwell-sipping-qsig-tunnel-01.txt

This file now appears in the archives but I have not seen an announcement.

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-elwell-sipping-qsig-tunnel-01.txt

Abstract: This document specifies tunnelling of "QSIG" over the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP). This enables calls between "islands" of circuit switched networks that use QSIG signalling to be interconnected by an IP network that uses SIP signalling without loss of QSIG functionality.

Compared with version 00 it uses a different technique for ensuring that the egress UA supports QSIG tunnelling. Instead of defining a new option tag it makes use of the MIME Content-Disposition header containing "handling-required" for this purpose. This means that no new protocol is defined.

John (john.elwell@siemens.com)

--Boundary_(ID_2SIYmRIwpjRyRuLBuWz3BQ)-- _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 30 14:24:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05619 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:24:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFIOy-0008BQ-Af for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:24:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9UJOCw6031449 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:24:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFIOy-0008BA-4u for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:24:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05594 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:24:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFIOv-0000Tf-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:24:09 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFIOv-0000Tc-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:24:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFIOn-00084a-KK; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:24:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFIOj-00083U-VK for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:23:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05567; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:23:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFIOh-0000T2-00; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:23:55 -0500 Received: from bdsl.66.12.12.130.gte.net ([66.12.12.130] helo=bdsl.greycouncil.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFIOg-0000Si-00; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:23:54 -0500 Received: from txdwillis (bdsl.66.12.12.254.gte.net [66.12.12.254]) (authenticated bits=0) by bdsl.greycouncil.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9UJNNw5022641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:23:23 -0600 From: "Dean Willis" To: , , , , Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:23:04 -0600 Message-ID: <002201c39f1b$3dc54e20$e1036e3f@txdwillis> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] Maintenance on softarmor web site Thursday 30Oct2003 Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1:30 PM USCST The main server (www.softarmor.com) will be down for the next few hours while I replace the OS. In the interim, if you need web content, it's available at http://kevlar.softarmor.com/ Anybody using the main box as a relay for email will also be affected. Cheers, -- Dean _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 30 22:36:48 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA27099 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:36:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFQ5N-0006Fu-MM for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:36:30 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9V3aTGD024042 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:36:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFQ5N-0006Fh-Hn for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:36:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA27086 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:36:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFQ5K-0007nY-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:36:26 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFQ5J-0007nV-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:36:25 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFQ4w-0006DI-RW; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:36:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFQ3y-00064C-Ee for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:35:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA27057 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:34:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFQ3v-0007mS-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:34:59 -0500 Received: from goalie.snowshore.com ([216.57.133.4] helo=webshield.office.snowshore.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFQ3u-0007mH-00 for sipping@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:34:58 -0500 Received: from zoe.office.snowshore.com(192.168.1.172) by webshield.office.snowshore.com via csmap id 4607; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:42:05 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Sipping] RE: Please Read Committee T1 Draft on DTMF Notification Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:34:28 -0500 Message-ID: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F68D4@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Thread-Topic: [Sipping] RE: Please Read Committee T1 Draft on DTMF Notification Thread-Index: AcOexRjyxyHGE9PbQZyOY6QrtksheQAmPFeg From: "Eric Burger" To: "Joe Zebarth" Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the posting. Reviewing the document, I think the T1 community may be better served by = KPML. It handles the long # issue, as well as directly handles the #9# = example given. Moreover, it is a general solution, while the T1 = suggestion does not really work even for the pre-paid scenario (the = NOTIFY flooding and ignoring expires on SUBSCRIBE). -----Original Message----- From: Joe Zebarth [mailto:zebarth@nortelnetworks.com] Sent: Tue, October 28, 2003 9:05 AM To: sipping@ietf.org Cc: Dean Willis Subject: [Sipping] RE: Please Read Committee T1 Draft on DTMF = Notification Colleagues=20 The T1 prepublished document can be found at:=20 http://www.t1.org/filemgr/filesearch.taf?_function=3Ddetail&T1_Files_uid1= =3D3S170632=20 Note that the zip file is 251 k and the uncompressed is 1.4 M=20 Kindest regards,=20 Joe Zebarth=20 Dept. 1A12=20 ATI Strategic Standards=20 Nortel Networks (Canada)=20 Phone: +1 613 765 8481=20 ESN: 6+395 8481=20 Fax: +1 613 763 2697=20 ESN: 6+393 2697=20 http://www.nortelnetworks.com=20 =20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: Dean Willis [mailto:dean.willis@softarmor.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 2:27 AM=20 To: sipping@ietf.org=20 Cc: Zebarth, Joe [CAR:1A12:EXCH]=20 Subject: Please Read Committee T1 Draft on DTMF Notification=20 While we were arguing about how to handle keypresses, somebody went out=20 and wrote a draft for an event package for DTMF events.=20 Please review the draft:=20 http://www.softarmor.com/wgdb/docs/draft-zebarth-sipping-dtmfad-00.txt=20 As I understand it, the mechanism that this draft is meant to support is = defined in Committee T1 Technical Report T1.TR.82-2003. Unfortunately, I = wasn't able to find said document on the T1 site, but that could just be = me -- perhaps the author can give us a link?=20 Questions to consider: Does this approach complement or conflict with=20 the KPML work? Is there danger of fragmenting, or is this work clearly=20 seperate? Would the world (or at least the Internet) be a better place=20 with, or without, this event package?=20 Please copy the author, as well as the list, on any responses. I expect=20 that discussion on this topic will come up during the Minneapolis=20 meeting.=20 Thanks,=20 --=20 Dean Willis=20 SIPPING co-chair=20 _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 31 01:00:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA00439 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:00:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFSKW-0002n4-5g for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:00:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9V60G9W010720 for sipping-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:00:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFSKW-0002mp-0w for sipping-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:00:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA00399 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:00:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFSKT-0001Wz-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:00:13 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFSKS-0001Ww-00 for sipping-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:00:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFSKM-0002jG-3D; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:00:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFSJS-0002cU-7B for sipping@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:59:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA00358; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:58:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFSJO-0001Uo-00; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:59:06 -0500 Received: from bdsl.66.12.12.130.gte.net ([66.12.12.130] helo=bdsl.greycouncil.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFSJO-0001Ul-00; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 00:59:06 -0500 Received: from softarmor.com (c-24-1-178-197.client.comcast.net [24.1.178.197]) (authenticated bits=0) by bdsl.greycouncil.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9V5x2v4007287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:59:03 -0600 Message-ID: <3FA1FA2A.6040003@softarmor.com> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:59:06 -0600 From: Dean Willis User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20030925 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sip@ietf.org, sipping@ietf.org, simple@ietf.org, xcon@ietf.org, iptel@ietf.org References: <002201c39f1b$3dc54e20$e1036e3f@txdwillis> In-Reply-To: <002201c39f1b$3dc54e20$e1036e3f@txdwillis> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Sipping] Re: [Sip] Maintenance on softarmor web site Thursday 30Oct2003 Sender: sipping-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: sipping-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: sipping@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: SIPPING Working Group (applications of SIP) List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dean Willis wrote: > 1:30 PM USCST > > The main server (www.softarmor.com) will be down for the next few hours > while I replace the OS. > > In the interim, if you need web content, it's available at > http://kevlar.softarmor.com/ > > Anybody using the main box as a relay for email will also be affected. > > Cheers, > > -- > Dean Everything should be back in working order, I think. Maybe. Note that everything has been rekeyed. -- Dean _______________________________________________ Sipping mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sipping This list is for NEW development of the application of SIP Use sip-implementors@cs.columbia.edu for questions on current sip Use sip@ietf.org for new developments of core SIP