From cabo@tzi.org Tue Mar 29 22:34:31 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B36C3A6AA0; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:34:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XIPeSyet2NIG; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 786E53A6A35; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:34:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p2U5Zl53022599; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.31.1.93] (unknown [212.4.138.34]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1A0233B7; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:35:47 +0200 (CEST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1082) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:35:45 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7B550DC8-16A1-4DBD-BEDF-2C7B99703C9C@tzi.org> References: To: Fred Baker X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1082) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 02:47:41 -0700 Cc: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, eman-chairs@tools.ietf.org, iot-workshop-prep@lists.i1b.org, IAB IAB , 6lowpan-chairs@tools.ietf.org, The IESG , roll-chairs@tools.ietf.org, smartpower-interest@ietf.org, IETF SmartPower Directorate Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] [Iot-workshop-prep] Report on the Smart Grid work in the IETF X-BeenThere: smartpower-interest@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Smart Power Interest List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 05:34:31 -0000 On Mar 30, 2011, at 07:20, Fred Baker wrote: >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5548.txt > 5548 Routing Requirements for Urban Low-Power and Lossy Networks. M. > Dohler, Ed., T. Watteyne, Ed., T. Winter, Ed., D. Barthel, Ed.. = May > 2009. (Format: TXT=3D47759 bytes) (Status: INFORMATIONAL) >=20 > The first was generated by 6lowpan, Actually, that is a ROLL document. (The entire set of ROLL requirements = RFCs is a great body of reference, by the way.) Note also that the full title of last week's IAB workshop is = "Interconnecting Smart Objects with the Internet" (this is noteworthy as = there is some debate around the term "Internet of Things"). JFYI. Gruesse, Carsten From fred@cisco.com Tue Mar 29 22:47:15 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151F23A6AA0; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:47:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.535 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.535 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.064, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id inLruXYMvwQ4; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7220B3A6A87; Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:46:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=fred@cisco.com; l=962; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1301464113; x=1302673713; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id: references:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nKFAD3hsU4IcWra9fz5KBzbLt4+E4KebIMEYbAwlfj4=; b=AefpkGrs/FZ6hLAj1AcKHcD+G+r4Ml2bihTPhBE3L8H4FMneA0eDuXz8 BrCkFVmrnBXv0hKp8ci36iKzPdrxEj8QVsO1h1SHtTELlS2F4gdHOSNAK PWOeBwWAfAImG00BsTmh2h8fCvjmP/9hJdcEzNe8BLthDUJCCRg0VfQhF 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Aq8EAHvDkk2Q/khLgWdsb2JhbAClUhQBARYmJYh5ljycVIVqBI0Fg1U X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.63,266,1299456000"; d="scan'208";a="23728607" Received: from ams-core-2.cisco.com ([144.254.72.75]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 30 Mar 2011 05:48:28 +0000 Received: from dhcp-4213.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-10-55-83-145.cisco.com [10.55.83.145]) by ams-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p2U5mMPB001067; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 05:48:27 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] by dhcp-4213.meeting.ietf.org (PGP Universal service); Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:48:27 +0200 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by dhcp-4213.meeting.ietf.org on Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:48:28 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) From: Fred Baker In-Reply-To: <7B550DC8-16A1-4DBD-BEDF-2C7B99703C9C@tzi.org> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 07:48:12 +0200 Message-Id: <558D2682-5137-4FB7-8D83-CA84495F3100@cisco.com> References: <7B550DC8-16A1-4DBD-BEDF-2C7B99703C9C@tzi.org> To: Carsten Bormann X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 02:47:41 -0700 Cc: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, eman-chairs@tools.ietf.org, iot-workshop-prep@lists.i1b.org, IAB IAB , 6lowpan-chairs@tools.ietf.org, The IESG , roll-chairs@tools.ietf.org, smartpower-interest@ietf.org, IETF SmartPower Directorate Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] [Iot-workshop-prep] Report on the Smart Grid work in the IETF X-BeenThere: smartpower-interest@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Smart Power Interest List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 05:47:15 -0000 Thanks. Yes, I think of "IoT" as a marketing term, which is to say something = someone came up with to find out how people would define it. :-) On Mar 30, 2011, at 7:35 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Mar 30, 2011, at 07:20, Fred Baker wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5548.txt >> 5548 Routing Requirements for Urban Low-Power and Lossy Networks. M. >> Dohler, Ed., T. Watteyne, Ed., T. Winter, Ed., D. Barthel, Ed.. = May >> 2009. (Format: TXT=3D47759 bytes) (Status: INFORMATIONAL) >>=20 >> The first was generated by 6lowpan, >=20 > Actually, that is a ROLL document. (The entire set of ROLL = requirements RFCs is a great body of reference, by the way.) >=20 > Note also that the full title of last week's IAB workshop is = "Interconnecting Smart Objects with the Internet" (this is noteworthy as = there is some debate around the term "Internet of Things"). >=20 > JFYI. >=20 > Gruesse, Carsten >=20 From mehmet.ersue@nsn.com Wed Mar 30 02:07:23 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B233A6B29; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 02:07:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.564 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.564 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.035, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RkSJbMgJpLsB; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 02:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.32]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 968C23A6B34; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 02:07:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p2U98tER024466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:08:55 +0200 Received: from demuexc022.nsn-intra.net (demuexc022.nsn-intra.net [10.150.128.35]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p2U98hJF021711; Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:08:52 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.103]) by demuexc022.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:08:49 +0200 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:08:48 +0200 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A6401DDB0DE@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [smartpower-interest] Report on the Smart Grid work in the IETF Thread-Index: Acvumk1IE50bP2qsSGW/Avv6tkVP5AAHurHA References: From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext Fred Baker" , "IAB IAB" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2011 09:08:49.0451 (UTC) FILETIME=[150A37B0:01CBEEBA] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 02:47:41 -0700 Cc: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, eman-chairs@tools.ietf.org, iot-workshop-prep@lists.i1b.org, 6lowpan-chairs@tools.ietf.org, The IESG , roll-chairs@tools.ietf.org, smartpower-interest@ietf.org, IETF SmartPower Directorate Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] Report on the Smart Grid work in the IETF X-BeenThere: smartpower-interest@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Smart Power Interest List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:07:23 -0000 May be we should add 'draft-ietf-opsawg-management-stds' to the list,=20 which has been mainly triggered by NIST SGIP and aims to complement=20 draft-baker-ietf-core. The draft is going to be discussed in SGIP IP Suite (IPSWG) and=20 Cyber Security (CSWG) Working Groups. Cheers,=20 Mehmet =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:smartpower-interest- > bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Fred Baker > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:21 AM > To: IAB IAB > Cc: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org; eman-chairs@tools.ietf.org; iot- > workshop-prep@lists.i1b.org; 6lowpan-chairs@tools.ietf.org; The IESG; > roll-chairs@tools.ietf.org; smartpower-interest@ietf.org; IETF > SmartPower Directorate > Subject: [smartpower-interest] Report on the Smart Grid work in the > IETF >=20 > Ross asked me to put together a report on Smart Grid-related work in > the IETF. >=20 > In short, we have two RFCs and 18 Internet Drafts at this moment that > explicitly mention the Smart Grid. The two RFCs are: >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5548.txt > 5548 Routing Requirements for Urban Low-Power and Lossy Networks. M. > Dohler, Ed., T. Watteyne, Ed., T. Winter, Ed., D. Barthel, Ed.. > May > 2009. (Format: TXT=3D47759 bytes) (Status: INFORMATIONAL) >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc6142.txt > 6142 ANSI C12.22, IEEE 1703, and MC12.22 Transport Over IP. A. Moise, > J. Brodkin. March 2011. (Format: TXT=3D58320 bytes) (Status: > INFORMATIONAL) >=20 > The first was generated by 6lowpan, I believe, and tells us something > about what ROLL should produce; the second was an individual submission > by one of the co-authors of ANSI C12.22, which is a specification for > the protocols by which one reads an electrical meter. >=20 > The internet drafts include: >=20 > - draft-arkko-ipv6-transition-guidelines, which mentions the grid in > passing, and is on the RFC Editor's queue. > - draft-baker-ietf-core, which was requested by NIST/SGIP, and is in > discussion with the IESG and waiting for text regarding PKIX, Kerberos, > and SSH per a "discuss" from Tim Polk > - draft-campagna-suitee, which describes a cryptographic suite of > algorithms intended for constrained embedded systems. > - several drafts in EMAN, which is looking at measuring energy usage > in Internet equipment. > - draft-ietf-roll-terminology, which is a terminology draft in ROLL. > - draft-lee-iot-problem-statement, which identifies the Smart Grid as > containing a class of embedded systems. > - draft-mrw-nat66, which mentions it in passing. > - draft-oflynn-core-bootstrapping and draft-sarikaya-core- > sbootstrappingfs, which reference NIST 7628, which is a security > analysis of the US power grid and by extension a requirements document > for security solutions in the Smart Grid. > - draft-oreirdan-mody-bot-remediation, which mentions "smart home" and > "smart grid" devices in passing. >=20 > More generally, work in the IETF is primarily concentrated in 6LowPAN, > ROLL, CORE, and EMAN, with the odd supporting effort such as a 6man > discussion related to the RPL protocol. As you know, 6lowpan has > developed a compression algorithm and compressed IPv6 header for IEEE > 802.15.4 networks, which is being looked at by the IEEE for possible > use in power-line communications. Roll has developed a routing protocol > called RPL for 802.15.4 networks, for which the usual analysis, > interoperability testing reports, and management base remain > unavailable, which raises questions about the protocol. Core is working > on a transport for RESTful HTTP, which is proposed as one way for > embedded systems to communicate (although I will note that published > specifications for intersystem communications, such as ANSI C12 and IEC > 14908, use much simpler data formats designed for system-to-system > communication rather than system-to-human display of data content, and > TCP has been shown to be viable i > n an 802.15.4 environment in the Zigbee work). Eman is working on MIBs > and related technology for measurement of energy use in various places. >=20 > Note that, while sensor networks and embedded systems in general are > probably a more appropriate report, I haven't done the analysis to > identify that body of work. I would expect it is a superset of the > above. >=20 > The IAB held a workshop in Prague last week on the "Internet of > Things", which is probably better described as being about the > evolution of Internet Technology in a machine-to-machine embedded > system context. The web pages for that are at > http://www.iab.org/about/workshops/smartobjects/ >=20 > The workshop did in fact occur, and the organizers will eventually > generate a report. It was essentially a research discussion and a set > of tutorials on specific technologies that are relevant. > _______________________________________________ > smartpower-interest mailing list > smartpower-interest@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com Sun Apr 3 07:54:24 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36D2E3A6813; Sun, 3 Apr 2011 07:54:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.286 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.286 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tIwnifwBbIo3; Sun, 3 Apr 2011 07:54:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1-g21.free.fr (smtp1-g21.free.fr [212.27.42.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 101713A682B; Sun, 3 Apr 2011 07:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (unknown [82.239.213.32]) by smtp1-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A456994030E; Sun, 3 Apr 2011 16:55:54 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4D988A77.5040809@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 16:55:51 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; fr; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fred Baker References: <7B550DC8-16A1-4DBD-BEDF-2C7B99703C9C@tzi.org> <558D2682-5137-4FB7-8D83-CA84495F3100@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <558D2682-5137-4FB7-8D83-CA84495F3100@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 110403-0, 03/04/2011), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 16:32:19 -0700 Cc: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, eman-chairs@tools.ietf.org, iot-workshop-prep@lists.i1b.org, IAB IAB , 6lowpan-chairs@tools.ietf.org, The IESG , roll-chairs@tools.ietf.org, smartpower-interest@ietf.org, IETF SmartPower Directorate Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] IoT term (was: Report on the Smart Grid work in the IETF) X-BeenThere: smartpower-interest@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Smart Power Interest List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 14:54:24 -0000 Le 30/03/2011 07:48, Fred Baker a écrit : > Thanks. > > Yes, I think of "IoT" as a marketing term, which is to say something > someone came up with to find out how people would define it. I agree, IoT has a marketing aura to it. IoT term is new, albeit its significance, taken literally, is not new - Internet is made of Routers Hosts since long. IoT is a strong keyword in EU administration when defining projects related to Internet. IoT has some roots in some manufacturers' vision of tracking goods on the Internet with an RFID and Electronic Product Code. IoT and IPv6 is an interesting mix. One may need the other. But only one is defined. IoT lives in the same space as M2M, and smart objects. Alex > > :-) > > On Mar 30, 2011, at 7:35 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > >> On Mar 30, 2011, at 07:20, Fred Baker wrote: >> >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5548.txt 5548 Routing Requirements for >>> Urban Low-Power and Lossy Networks. M. Dohler, Ed., T. Watteyne, >>> Ed., T. Winter, Ed., D. Barthel, Ed.. May 2009. (Format: >>> TXT=47759 bytes) (Status: INFORMATIONAL) >>> >>> The first was generated by 6lowpan, >> >> Actually, that is a ROLL document. (The entire set of ROLL >> requirements RFCs is a great body of reference, by the way.) >> >> Note also that the full title of last week's IAB workshop is >> "Interconnecting Smart Objects with the Internet" (this is >> noteworthy as there is some debate around the term "Internet of >> Things"). >> >> JFYI. >> >> Gruesse, Carsten >> > > _______________________________________________ smartpower-interest > mailing list smartpower-interest@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest > From fred@cisco.com Thu Apr 7 00:38:32 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0DC83A68C2; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 00:38:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MVSTzmUMtdTt; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 00:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7229E3A687A; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 00:38:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=fred@cisco.com; l=322; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1302162016; x=1303371616; h=date:from:message-id:to:subject; bh=IFAO+TpgrwcpjnYifdsZ588Lfpse/WxHjdbNAJJjp0Q=; b=eU9+Q1ad1RU/KWlaLIZ+o7HrQ5NENvLYUOMOQxCKAvnb+NUlOAQr3yje 0LQroCR6IlBvBF9xcJ+pdZzHaxNW2+7i1dfoWFaGaSpqS+XufFTIl1cKL iOdJsKjFyTAmXM6rNyn6m3t+YpMYG/6reh3cV7Qg3D/xtYGeJBYSdQP2p k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EADtpnU2rRDoG/2dsb2JhbACYcwGNDXemAZxthW0EhVA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.63,315,1299456000"; d="scan'208";a="291077979" Received: from mtv-core-1.cisco.com ([171.68.58.6]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2011 07:40:15 +0000 Received: from irp-view13.cisco.com (irp-view13.cisco.com [171.70.120.60]) by mtv-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p377eFfS024090; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 07:40:15 GMT Received: from irp-view13.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by irp-view13.cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p377eFRC029958; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 00:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from fred@localhost) by irp-view13.cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4/Submit) id p377eFDr029926; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 00:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 00:40:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Baker Message-Id: <201104070740.p377eFDr029926@irp-view13.cisco.com> To: smartpower-interest@ietf.org, smartpowerdir@ietf.org Subject: [smartpower-interest] NIST/SGIP Discussion X-BeenThere: smartpower-interest@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Smart Power Interest List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 07:38:32 -0000 Interesting ppt ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/fred/SmartPower/NIST-SGIP_JWG.pptx This is a joint presentation from NIST/SGIP to ETSI proposing and negotiating a joint working group between the US and Europe. Nothing confidential that I see, but a pretty clear discussion of the issues NIST/SGIP think are on the table. From vint@google.com Thu Apr 7 02:52:31 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C29243A69C0 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 02:52:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FOIBsyyDrCvC for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 02:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-out.google.com (smtp-out.google.com [216.239.44.51]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD8AC3A69BE for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 02:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpaq13.eem.corp.google.com (hpaq13.eem.corp.google.com [172.25.149.13]) by smtp-out.google.com with ESMTP id p379hha5009453 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 02:43:43 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=beta; t=1302169424; bh=TNhxdsA8HEiGQSTtbis0Zc1EkK8=; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:References:Date:Message-ID:Subject:From: To:Cc:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=PbkQJ5BysHLS1aaIOPFlUQ0xpsU624XESRoAhm5E6ptB1xo6f0TMDzKMo1QRgcczN /6dFrcNcPQXrNPw95kKRQ== Received: from qwf7 (qwf7.prod.google.com [10.241.194.71]) by hpaq13.eem.corp.google.com with ESMTP id p379hfVx010299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 02:43:42 -0700 Received: by qwf7 with SMTP id 7so1658231qwf.24 for ; Thu, 07 Apr 2011 02:43:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=y1uRWi/68KFeUyD3f6QxjJ5H+jNM19qF+m11gAYf6XE=; b=MnfoVY5MwpOcwSCgmyWcwB5unsp9btqwgx1QLuP64cU5qzfhNlpt5vXSqT8e4O5Gd6 fzgKeOzYiJM59SkA9cJA== DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=google.com; s=beta; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=XtmUZaWEsijvsLv8oIKtqkHm6ax7KMdO5IUT/VfoZJ9PpOwfA+uK2KctEA+IgcBjXM +caKRiDUq1QWmL2N3fxA== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.229.206 with SMTP id jj14mr438920qcb.112.1302169420815; Thu, 07 Apr 2011 02:43:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.253.7 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 02:43:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <558D2682-5137-4FB7-8D83-CA84495F3100@cisco.com> References: <7B550DC8-16A1-4DBD-BEDF-2C7B99703C9C@tzi.org> <558D2682-5137-4FB7-8D83-CA84495F3100@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 05:43:40 -0400 Message-ID: From: Vint Cerf To: Fred Baker Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-System-Of-Record: true X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 04:23:56 -0700 Cc: core-chairs@tools.ietf.org, eman-chairs@tools.ietf.org, iot-workshop-prep@lists.i1b.org, IAB IAB , 6lowpan-chairs@tools.ietf.org, The IESG , roll-chairs@tools.ietf.org, smartpower-interest@ietf.org, IETF SmartPower Directorate Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] [smartpowerdir] [Iot-workshop-prep] Report on the Smart Grid work in the IETF X-BeenThere: smartpower-interest@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Smart Power Interest List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 09:52:31 -0000 i have been using that term (IoT) for a while simply to make the point that every day appliances can become part of the communicating and manageable devices on the Internet, in the billions (including sensor systems). v On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 1:48 AM, Fred Baker wrote: > Thanks. > > Yes, I think of "IoT" as a marketing term, which is to say something some= one came up with to find out how people would define it. > > :-) > > On Mar 30, 2011, at 7:35 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > >> On Mar 30, 2011, at 07:20, Fred Baker wrote: >> >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc5548.txt >>> 5548 Routing Requirements for Urban Low-Power and Lossy Networks. M. >>> =A0 =A0Dohler, Ed., T. Watteyne, Ed., T. Winter, Ed., D. Barthel, Ed.. = May >>> =A0 =A02009. (Format: TXT=3D47759 bytes) (Status: INFORMATIONAL) >>> >>> The first was generated by 6lowpan, >> >> Actually, that is a ROLL document. =A0(The entire set of ROLL requiremen= ts RFCs is a great body of reference, by the way.) >> >> Note also that the full title of last week's IAB workshop is "Interconne= cting Smart Objects with the Internet" (this is noteworthy as there is some= debate around the term "Internet of Things"). >> >> JFYI. >> >> Gruesse, Carsten >> > > From alper.yegin@yegin.org Thu Apr 7 07:26:11 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9731228C122; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 07:26:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.15 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.15 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MSGID_MULTIPLE_AT=1.449, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ol7zG8NlXWlv; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 07:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89C328C105; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 07:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ibm (dsl.static.85-105-43069.ttnet.net.tr [85.105.168.61]) by mrelay.perfora.net (node=mrus4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0LpKCT-1PSkbo1EtJ-00fPVD; Thu, 07 Apr 2011 10:27:53 -0400 From: "Alper Yegin" To: "'Fred Baker'" , , References: <201104070740.p377eFDr029926@irp-view13.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <201104070740.p377eFDr029926@irp-view13.cisco.com> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 17:27:46 +0300 Message-ID: <00bc01cbf52f$fb8d7190$f2a854b0$@yegin@yegin.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acv09wsRvtsGgEtGRuKnvwJ9vD5q0wAOLuDQ Content-Language: en-us X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:1FXv+ikMf/lhpDthEGWq2W5LUx7NtPFb/3lCg80Kvwf 7F5flT/2oxFh+cZNJn0EMbO/R5cc2ps2rXmC4Pbh0kYahwxeqj wy1WVMt0tBGeFoLWCdZUECOQBL2y9s4BG86G9gpFl965083w1j 5LZTyBPnoMoLAu234/x51gyGqwCz5H05I3Rm2HI1jTC+xjRicC Rfmzu13oFHZ4pYeWd7vnY0W03o2oZcGawF/MMLhEBY= Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] NIST/SGIP Discussion X-BeenThere: smartpower-interest@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Smart Power Interest List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 14:26:11 -0000 Hi Fred, I didn't see ETSI mentioned in this PPT. Is there a document that refers to the type of joint work being considered? Thank you. Alper > -----Original Message----- > From: smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:smartpower-interest- > bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fred Baker > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 10:40 AM > To: smartpower-interest@ietf.org; smartpowerdir@ietf.org > Subject: [smartpower-interest] NIST/SGIP Discussion > > Interesting ppt > ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/fred/SmartPower/NIST-SGIP_JWG.pptx > This is a joint presentation from NIST/SGIP to ETSI proposing and > negotiating a joint working group between the US and Europe. Nothing > confidential that I see, but a pretty clear discussion of the issues > NIST/SGIP think are on the table. > _______________________________________________ > smartpower-interest mailing list > smartpower-interest@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest From juergen.heiles@nsn.com Thu Apr 7 08:05:10 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4606828C10C; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 08:05:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MF+2IvqiVBMO; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 08:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23A5228C0E1; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 08:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p37F6bex029551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 7 Apr 2011 17:06:39 +0200 Received: from demuexc024.nsn-intra.net (demuexc024.nsn-intra.net [10.159.32.11]) by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p37F6atL014926; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 17:06:37 +0200 Received: from DEMUEXC014.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.25]) by demuexc024.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 7 Apr 2011 17:06:25 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 17:06:24 +0200 Message-ID: <077E41CFFD002C4CAB7DFA4386A5326403A25EEF@DEMUEXC014.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <00bc01cbf52f$fb8d7190$f2a854b0$@yegin@yegin.org> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [smartpower-interest] NIST/SGIP Discussion Thread-Index: Acv09wsRvtsGgEtGRuKnvwJ9vD5q0wAOLuDQAAFLHPA= References: <201104070740.p377eFDr029926@irp-view13.cisco.com> <00bc01cbf52f$fb8d7190$f2a854b0$@yegin@yegin.org> From: "Heiles, Juergen (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "ext Alper Yegin" , "Fred Baker" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Apr 2011 15:06:25.0731 (UTC) FILETIME=[5D48B930:01CBF535] Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] NIST/SGIP Discussion X-BeenThere: smartpower-interest@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Smart Power Interest List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 15:05:10 -0000 NIST/SGIP and the CEN/CENELEC/ETSI JWG Smart Grid have a discussion today about possible cooperation. Regards Juergen > -----Original Message----- > From: smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:smartpower-interest- > bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Alper Yegin > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 4:28 PM > To: 'Fred Baker'; smartpower-interest@ietf.org; smartpowerdir@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] NIST/SGIP Discussion >=20 > Hi Fred, >=20 > I didn't see ETSI mentioned in this PPT. > Is there a document that refers to the type of joint work being > considered? >=20 > Thank you. >=20 > Alper >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:smartpower- > interest- > > bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fred Baker > > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 10:40 AM > > To: smartpower-interest@ietf.org; smartpowerdir@ietf.org > > Subject: [smartpower-interest] NIST/SGIP Discussion > > > > Interesting ppt > > ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/fred/SmartPower/NIST-SGIP_JWG.pptx > > This is a joint presentation from NIST/SGIP to ETSI proposing and > > negotiating a joint working group between the US and Europe. Nothing > > confidential that I see, but a pretty clear discussion of the issues > > NIST/SGIP think are on the table. > > _______________________________________________ > > smartpower-interest mailing list > > smartpower-interest@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest >=20 > _______________________________________________ > smartpower-interest mailing list > smartpower-interest@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest From richard@shockey.us Thu Apr 7 09:51:11 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9249728C160 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 09:51:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.167 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.167 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.098, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OJQ-Qda7sjLa for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 09:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cpoproxy2-pub.bluehost.com (cpoproxy2-pub.bluehost.com [67.222.39.38]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DD68028C157 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 09:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 19902 invoked by uid 0); 7 Apr 2011 16:52:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box462.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.62) by cpoproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 7 Apr 2011 16:52:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=shockey.us; h=Received:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:Content-Language:X-Identified-User; b=CNVwCyjP9bzCUl16WExsgSWk93flvqN7eLnN5fZoT0J32bD4xfQdGyHFFswC4176nVz5uEeiuC1TZmDPEvma0vr5JY5JPCnT2dFppgBDY6xvucDeHonQQqETVeYqLqQf; Received: from pool-71-178-24-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([71.178.24.118] helo=RSHOCKEYPC) by box462.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Q7sRy-0003Sq-3w; Thu, 07 Apr 2011 10:52:54 -0600 From: "Richard Shockey" To: "'Heiles, Juergen \(NSN - DE/Munich\)'" , "'ext Alper Yegin'" , "'Fred Baker'" , , References: <201104070740.p377eFDr029926@irp-view13.cisco.com> <00bc01cbf52f$fb8d7190$f2a854b0$@yegin@yegin.org> <077E41CFFD002C4CAB7DFA4386A5326403A25EEF@DEMUEXC014.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <077E41CFFD002C4CAB7DFA4386A5326403A25EEF@DEMUEXC014.nsn-intra.net> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 12:52:53 -0400 Message-ID: <00c501cbf544$3d6e6f60$b84b4e20$@us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: Acv09wsRvtsGgEtGRuKnvwJ9vD5q0wAOLuDQAAFLHPAAA7kg0A== Content-Language: en-us X-Identified-User: {3286:box462.bluehost.com:shockeyu:shockey.us} {sentby:smtp auth 71.178.24.118 authed with richard@shockey.us} Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] NIST/SGIP Discussion X-BeenThere: smartpower-interest@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Smart Power Interest List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 16:51:11 -0000 What about IEC? I assume IEC 61850 is a core component here. -----Original Message----- From: smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Heiles, Juergen (NSN - DE/Munich) Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 11:06 AM To: ext Alper Yegin; Fred Baker; smartpower-interest@ietf.org; smartpowerdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] NIST/SGIP Discussion NIST/SGIP and the CEN/CENELEC/ETSI JWG Smart Grid have a discussion today about possible cooperation. Regards Juergen > -----Original Message----- > From: smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:smartpower-interest- > bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Alper Yegin > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 4:28 PM > To: 'Fred Baker'; smartpower-interest@ietf.org; smartpowerdir@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] NIST/SGIP Discussion > > Hi Fred, > > I didn't see ETSI mentioned in this PPT. > Is there a document that refers to the type of joint work being > considered? > > Thank you. > > Alper > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:smartpower- > interest- > > bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fred Baker > > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 10:40 AM > > To: smartpower-interest@ietf.org; smartpowerdir@ietf.org > > Subject: [smartpower-interest] NIST/SGIP Discussion > > > > Interesting ppt > > ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/fred/SmartPower/NIST-SGIP_JWG.pptx > > This is a joint presentation from NIST/SGIP to ETSI proposing and > > negotiating a joint working group between the US and Europe. Nothing > > confidential that I see, but a pretty clear discussion of the issues > > NIST/SGIP think are on the table. > > _______________________________________________ > > smartpower-interest mailing list > > smartpower-interest@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest > > _______________________________________________ > smartpower-interest mailing list > smartpower-interest@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest _______________________________________________ smartpower-interest mailing list smartpower-interest@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest From fred@cisco.com Thu Apr 7 11:54:05 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: smartpower-interest@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 258943A6A1D; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 11:54:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.47 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.47 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.129, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IOou2AxUGbFA; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 11:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com (ams-iport-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.140]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C533A6A14; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 11:54:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=fred@cisco.com; l=1122; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1302202548; x=1303412148; h=subject:mime-version:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id: references:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZCrMV8ApjocywW1H/8o8wi7pt/hIVn4aiwwVCOR3HdA=; b=KN70pMXI61gIfEQAjCCI/ga7fLVGIiTXie1t5qTiMw8vpJWpQv8ybKwE Xkdt2tGCyQ/Pi1bppcfoQmazp5DKbV9BH4Fw1JAc+yAw74S+7WmUWfvpI XZWHQWvOJIKql1tAQ0jRdwC3Mt/a+PFKMbOrtoV+DgESQjrpaDxVYAcep s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AtsAAGUInk2Q/khLgWdsb2JhbACYNo1SFAEBFiYliHmcRpxahW0EjUWDaA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.63,317,1299456000"; d="scan'208";a="82668011" Received: from ams-core-2.cisco.com ([144.254.72.75]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2011 18:55:47 +0000 Received: from ip212-238-54-97.hotspotsvankpn.com (ams3-vpn-dhcp6414.cisco.com [10.61.89.13]) by ams-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p37ItgWf019871; Thu, 7 Apr 2011 18:55:47 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] by ip212-238-54-97.hotspotsvankpn.com (PGP Universal service); Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:55:47 +0200 X-PGP-Universal: processed; by ip212-238-54-97.hotspotsvankpn.com on Thu, 07 Apr 2011 20:55:47 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) From: Fred Baker In-Reply-To: <00bc01cbf52f$fb8d7190$f2a854b0$@yegin@yegin.org> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 20:55:32 +0200 Message-Id: <15F9FE0C-54F4-443E-83CF-C9CDA9CC2D9B@cisco.com> References: <201104070740.p377eFDr029926@irp-view13.cisco.com> <00bc01cbf52f$fb8d7190$f2a854b0$@yegin@yegin.org> To: Alper Yegin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: smartpower-interest@ietf.org, smartpowerdir@ietf.org Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] NIST/SGIP Discussion X-BeenThere: smartpower-interest@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Smart Power Interest List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 18:54:05 -0000 It was a presentation *to* ETSI. On Apr 7, 2011, at 4:27 PM, Alper Yegin wrote: > Hi Fred, > > I didn't see ETSI mentioned in this PPT. > Is there a document that refers to the type of joint work being considered? > > Thank you. > > Alper > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:smartpower-interest- >> bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fred Baker >> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 10:40 AM >> To: smartpower-interest@ietf.org; smartpowerdir@ietf.org >> Subject: [smartpower-interest] NIST/SGIP Discussion >> >> Interesting ppt >> ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/fred/SmartPower/NIST-SGIP_JWG.pptx >> This is a joint presentation from NIST/SGIP to ETSI proposing and >> negotiating a joint working group between the US and Europe. Nothing >> confidential that I see, but a pretty clear discussion of the issues >> NIST/SGIP think are on the table. >> _______________________________________________ >> smartpower-interest mailing list >> smartpower-interest@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest > From prvs=089545140=bora@pnnl.gov Mon Apr 25 09:17:51 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smartpower-interest@ietfc.amsl.com Delivered-To: smartpower-interest@ietfc.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfc.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB5AEE075C for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 09:17:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([208.66.40.236]) by localhost (ietfc.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5gMVWTkqWHKX for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 09:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emailgw03.pnl.gov (emailgw03.pnl.gov [192.101.109.31]) by ietfc.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7689E0765 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 09:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from emailhub02.pnl.gov ([130.20.251.62]) by emailgw03.pnl.gov with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 25 Apr 2011 09:17:49 -0700 Received: from Email05.pnl.gov ([130.20.251.69]) by emailhub02.pnl.gov ([130.20.251.62]) with mapi; Mon, 25 Apr 2011 09:17:03 -0700 From: "Akyol, Bora A" To: "smartpower-interest@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 09:17:46 -0700 Thread-Topic: Looking for references/pointers to security research on wireless ad-hoc networks Thread-Index: AcwDZFF5lgmZ72uSQ8ekBt+cYYwlIQ== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.10.0.110310 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 12:33:12 -0700 Subject: [smartpower-interest] Looking for references/pointers to security research on wireless ad-hoc networks X-BeenThere: smartpower-interest@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Smart Power Interest List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 16:19:13 -0000 Hi everyone. After doing the mandatory literature searches on IEEE, ACM and Google Schol= ar, I am looking to see if I have missed any ongoing work at IETF regarding authorization and authentication of devi= ces or software in wireless ad-hoc networks where a centralized entity may not exist. Note that I am not looking for work on = routing in MANET or encryption technologies. This is related to ongoing smart grid work that I am doing. Thank you very much for your help, -- Bora Akyol, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory +1 509 371 6682, bora@pnnl.gov, www.pnnl.gov From gdaley@au.logicalis.com Tue Apr 26 23:24:54 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smartpower-interest@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: smartpower-interest@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A823E06AF for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:24:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.605 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.605 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RELAY_IS_203=0.994] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OCE33HBC4grZ for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.syd.netstarnetworks.com (mail.syd.netstarnetworks.com [203.8.7.220]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 751B6E06AD for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sdcexchht.netstarnetworks.com ([10.18.193.63]) by mail.syd.netstarnetworks.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id p3R6OkHm005709 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:24:49 +1000 Received: from SDCEXCHMS.netstarnetworks.com ([fe80::38ec:ea79:f4c9:acd6]) by sdcexchht.netstarnetworks.com ([::1]) with mapi; Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:24:31 +1000 From: Greg Daley To: "Akyol, Bora A" , "smartpower-interest@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:24:25 +1000 Thread-Topic: [smartpower-interest] Looking for references/pointers to security research on wireless ad-hoc networks Thread-Index: AcwDZFF5lgmZ72uSQ8ekBt+cYYwlIQBPP+Eg Message-ID: <8155FD1BB2ABCD40AC6F8149BBE997E0D783212430@sdcexchms.netstarnetworks.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-AU Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-AU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 08:28:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] Looking for references/pointers to security research on wireless ad-hoc networks X-BeenThere: smartpower-interest@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Smart Power Interest List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 06:25:57 -0000 Hi Akyol,=20 This sort of issue associated with authorization without a central authorit= y is similar to other works on peer-to-peer networking, without centralized authentication service. The question is whether trust has been established previously (and we are r= ecovering based on known=20 relationships) or trust has never been present. In the second case, it may be impossible to establish trust because of the = low cost associated with creation of fake identities on the wireless medium (Even with some sort of = agreement protocol, it may be possible to overwhelm the network using the unfortunately named Sybil at= tack). In the first case, it may be possible to establish the identity of a peer b= y establishing common trust using common trust relationships (back to a known source, perhaps using Certifica= tes).=20 Albeit this may be subject to attacks where the certified identity is compr= omised, and the existing connectivity to a CRL or online Certificate validity server (using for example OCSP) is = overwhelmed. Another approach is to provide authentication via existing connected nodes = back to the centralized site, but using protections back to the central server. I believe this may be covere= d by an independent submission that is still being discussed on the (concluded) PANA Working group mailin= g list. http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pana/current/maillist.html Sincerely, Greg Daley Consultant Logicalis Australia Pty Ltd =20 E: gdaley@au.logicalis.com M: +61 401 772 770 P: +61 3 8532 4042 F: +61 3 8532 4032 =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org=20 > [mailto:smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=20 > Akyol, Bora A > Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2011 2:18 AM > To: smartpower-interest@ietf.org > Subject: [smartpower-interest] Looking for=20 > references/pointers to security research on wireless ad-hoc networks >=20 >=20 > Hi everyone. >=20 > After doing the mandatory literature searches on IEEE, ACM=20 > and Google Scholar, I am looking to see if I have missed > any ongoing work at IETF regarding authorization and=20 > authentication of devices or software in wireless ad-hoc=20 > networks where > a centralized entity may not exist. Note that I am not=20 > looking for work on routing in MANET or encryption technologies. >=20 > This is related to ongoing smart grid work that I am doing. >=20 > Thank you very much for your help, >=20 > -- > Bora Akyol, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory > +1 509 371 6682, bora@pnnl.gov, www.pnnl.gov > _______________________________________________ > smartpower-interest mailing list > smartpower-interest@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest > = From sant9442@gmail.com Fri Apr 29 10:18:10 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smartpower-interest@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: smartpower-interest@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F14F8E06A1 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:18:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id phx9W3hwkEM3 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gy0-f172.google.com (mail-gy0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11A0EE069F for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gyf3 with SMTP id 3so1686599gyf.31 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:18:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=cR7K5bq+DfzHxDjim0RJ6dzmkKJ+O6QuthI8VPbKuKs=; b=eC/cA82otYQaMT/WkAMvoMASltEoWEm7C6hobbCaT7qY9/rAE+/CIa9OS33XyWuAIm EW3RwxtIgzXBTkUKq3dOtHzIRDmr67LdDN72ApDzy8EB1nI9zpJJuKmrp/LH8dQiVSst o0Lnw1xzz1q61AOQpspnHkwvoaFpbiugNpn8c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=nLTb3wFlRpRbaCiJ5wK55DPcRXCmh7qkHp9bygzw2lrxBverlUzfwbmAANVjSL9ptO 8i6g4CFGB5gw+TK+GzYpncCIGdQIEeWXJsHZ2KIFHc5n8U97mpK4eaCM6NTVvmUBtN/V KTdPUf4toPLaUUP09h5yRIucswkRDsdp4+oGM= Received: by 10.150.183.18 with SMTP id g18mr4250333ybf.396.1304097484016; Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:18:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from adsl-215-50-126.mia.bellsouth.net (99-3-147-93.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net [99.3.147.93]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w19sm282312ybe.25.2011.04.29.10.18.02 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 29 Apr 2011 10:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4DBAF2F2.5040302@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:18:42 -0400 From: Hector User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (Windows/20100228) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Daley References: <8155FD1BB2ABCD40AC6F8149BBE997E0D783212430@sdcexchms.netstarnetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <8155FD1BB2ABCD40AC6F8149BBE997E0D783212430@sdcexchms.netstarnetworks.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "smartpower-interest@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [smartpower-interest] Looking for references/pointers to security research on wireless ad-hoc networks X-BeenThere: smartpower-interest@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Smart Power Interest List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 17:18:11 -0000 Depending on what packet mechanism he can settle with, a RFC5322-based payload using self-signed DKIM signatures with ADSP exclusive self-signed policy declarations will work by first addressing fault detection (policy violations) requirement. What remains is valid authenticated payloads. The trust is another matter as you pointed out. Strict DKIM has been remodeled for a minimum layered single identity trustconcept, abeit 3rd party certification. That's been the long central contentious issue in DKIM working group - POLICY vs TRUST. My position is that you need both. Filter the violations first and that includes policies to exclude 3rd party signers or authorize them. Extensions for ADSP has been written to support authorized signers. Without having a central entity is some what more difficult (i.e. DNS, public key location, etc) requiring some P2P networking knowledge. "Something" has to be shared. I can imagine if this is private network of devices, the vendor will be the central trust identity. DomainKeys Identified Mail (DKIM) Signatures RFC4871 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4871 DKIM Author Domain Signing Practices (ADSP) RFC5617 http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc5617/ DKIM Authorized Third-Party Signers (ADSP extension I-D) http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kucherawy-dkim-atps/ We are going to be using DKIM to assist in private mail networks first, external networking second with strong support for the deterministic nature of ADSP secured DKIM payloads. This was outlined in my I-D: DKIM Signature Authorization Protocol (DSAP) http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-santos-dkim-dsap-00 -- Hector Santos, CTO http://www.santronics.com Greg Daley wrote: > Hi Akyol, > > This sort of issue associated with authorization without a central authority is similar to other works > on peer-to-peer networking, without centralized authentication service. > > The question is whether trust has been established previously (and we are recovering based on known > relationships) or trust has never been present. > > In the second case, it may be impossible to establish trust because of the low cost associated with > creation of fake identities on the wireless medium (Even with some sort of agreement protocol, it may > be possible to overwhelm the network using the unfortunately named Sybil attack). > > In the first case, it may be possible to establish the identity of a peer by establishing common trust using > common trust relationships (back to a known source, perhaps using Certificates). > > Albeit this may be subject to attacks where the certified identity is compromised, and the existing connectivity > to a CRL or online Certificate validity server (using for example OCSP) is overwhelmed. > > Another approach is to provide authentication via existing connected nodes back to the centralized site, but > using protections back to the central server. I believe this may be covered by an independent submission > that is still being discussed on the (concluded) PANA Working group mailing list. > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pana/current/maillist.html > > Sincerely, > > Greg Daley > Consultant > Logicalis Australia Pty Ltd > > E: gdaley@au.logicalis.com > M: +61 401 772 770 > P: +61 3 8532 4042 > F: +61 3 8532 4032 > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:smartpower-interest-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >> Akyol, Bora A >> Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2011 2:18 AM >> To: smartpower-interest@ietf.org >> Subject: [smartpower-interest] Looking for >> references/pointers to security research on wireless ad-hoc networks >> >> >> Hi everyone. >> >> After doing the mandatory literature searches on IEEE, ACM >> and Google Scholar, I am looking to see if I have missed >> any ongoing work at IETF regarding authorization and >> authentication of devices or software in wireless ad-hoc >> networks where >> a centralized entity may not exist. Note that I am not >> looking for work on routing in MANET or encryption technologies. >> >> This is related to ongoing smart grid work that I am doing. >> >> Thank you very much for your help, >> >> -- >> Bora Akyol, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory >> +1 509 371 6682, bora@pnnl.gov, www.pnnl.gov >> _______________________________________________ >> smartpower-interest mailing list >> smartpower-interest@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest >> > _______________________________________________ > smartpower-interest mailing list > smartpower-interest@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smartpower-interest