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marines detained by Iranian forces on= March 23, 2007=2Eoperating under a UN mandate in Iraqi waters=2E Blair ------=_NextPart_3683_0ECD_01C864B0.39922580-- From jr@fdf.dk Fri Feb 1 03:30:32 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB0213A692D for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:30:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 106.52 X-Spam-Level: **************************************************************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=106.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.034, BAYES_99=3.5, FB_PENIS=1.66, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_BIG_REASON=10.357, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, FRT_PENIS1=3.592, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20=1.546, HTML_MESSAGE=1, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, MANGLED_ENLARG=2.3, MANGLED_ENLGMN=5, MANGLED_PENIS=2.3, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_FORGED_WROTE=2.523, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_ADLTOBFU=0.68, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 0.8 FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D Host starts with d-d-d-d * 2.4 HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (IP addr * 1) * 1.6 FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D Helo is d-d-d-d * 2.5 RCVD_FORGED_WROTE Forged 'Received' header found ('wrote:' spam) * 2.3 MANGLED_PENIS BODY: mangled - Penis * 0.7 SARE_ADLTOBFU BODY: Contains OBFU adult material * 3.6 FRT_PENIS1 BODY: ReplaceTags: Penis * 5.0 MANGLED_ENLGMN BODY: mangled enlargement * 1.7 FB_PENIS BODY: FB_PENIS * 2.3 MANGLED_ENLARG BODY: mangled enlarge(r|s) * 0.6 J_CHICKENPOX_31 BODY: 3alpha-pock-1alpha * 0.0 NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP URI: Uses a dotted-decimal IP address in URL * 1.5 HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20 BODY: HTML: images with 1600-2000 bytes of words * 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * 0.7 SARE_HTML_A_BODY FULL: Message body has very strange HTML sequence * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 8 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 4 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 20 URIBL_BLACK Contains an URL listed in the URIBL blacklist * [URIs: domizu.com] * 10 URIBL_WS_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the WS SURBL blocklist * [URIs: domizu.com] * 10 URIBL_JP_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the JP SURBL blocklist * [URIs: domizu.com] * 10 URIBL_OB_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the OB SURBL blocklist * [URIs: domizu.com] * 10 URIBL_SC_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the SC SURBL blocklist * [URIs: domizu.com] * 1.1 URIBL_RHS_DOB Contains an URI of a new domain (Day Old Bread) * [URIs: domizu.com] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [86.143.89.45 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL RBL: SORBS: sent directly from dynamic IP address * [86.143.89.45 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] * 2.0 FM_DDDD_TIMES_2 Dual helo + host eq d_d_d_d * 0.0 HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_3 HTML is very short with a linked image * 10 FM_BIG_REASON Lot's of CAP words, BIG, REASON, BEST * 0.1 RDNS_DYNAMIC Delivered to trusted network by host with * dynamic-looking rDNS * -3.0 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dhxdPTtqLhvW for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:30:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from host86-143-89-45.range86-143.btcentralplus.com (host86-143-89-45.range86-143.btcentralplus.com [86.143.89.45]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F5B13A68E1 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:30:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from 80.89.23.38 (HELO fdfmx.solutio.dk) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp (JCSCOUPHBVNT SDVGKA) id UttyO-VlcNau-kj for smime-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:33:24 +0000 Message-ID: <263b01c864c6$41c34e80$2d598f56@Erich> From: "Erich Roach" To: "Lanny Church" Subject: ***SPAM*** 106.52 (5) Do wilder things with your new big phallus! 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rise as a large number of buildings were destroyed and1950= - The Soviet Union issued a statement denying that
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death toll may rise as a large number of buildings= wereIt is thought that, at some point in the last 20 years,
in Pittsb= urgh could not be reached=2E The offer fromTwo earthquakes, measuring 6=2E= 3 and 6=2E0 on the Richter ------=_NextPart_9785_26A3_01C864C6.41C34E80-- From jetvacfoxej@vacfo.com Fri Feb 1 04:02:48 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 242E53A694E; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 04:02:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 89.902 X-Spam-Level: **************************************************************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=89.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_ALMOST_IP=5.417, FH_HOST_ALMOST_IP=1.889, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, INVALID_DATE=1.245, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 0.3 HELO_EQ_FR HELO_EQ_FR * 1.9 FH_HOST_ALMOST_IP The host almost looks like an IP addr. * 1.4 HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE * 5.4 FH_HELO_ALMOST_IP Helo is almost an IP addr. * 0.8 HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE * 1.2 INVALID_DATE Invalid Date: header (not RFC 2822) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 8 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 10 URIBL_AB_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the AB SURBL blocklist * [URIs: foreignw0men.info] * 10 URIBL_WS_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the WS SURBL blocklist * [URIs: foreignw0men.info] * 10 URIBL_JP_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the JP SURBL blocklist * [URIs: foreignw0men.info] * 10 URIBL_OB_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the OB SURBL blocklist * [URIs: foreignw0men.info] * 10 URIBL_SC_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the SC SURBL blocklist * [URIs: foreignw0men.info] * 1.1 URIBL_RHS_DOB Contains an URI of a new domain (Day Old Bread) * [URIs: foreignw0men.info] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL RBL: SORBS: sent directly from dynamic IP address * [81.220.47.153 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] * 20 URIBL_BLACK Contains an URL listed in the URIBL blacklist * [URIs: foreignw0men.info] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [81.220.47.153 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5B7SSrJgcmkg; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 04:02:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ip-153.net-81-220-47.lyon.rev.numericable.fr (ip-153.net-81-220-47.lyon.rev.numericable.fr [81.220.47.153]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B188C3A693B; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 04:02:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [81.220.47.153] by mx1.myoutlookonline.com; Fri, 32 Jan 2008 13:15:45 +0100 Date: Fri, 32 Jan 2008 13:15:45 +0100 From: "Judson Goss" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.12.00) Personal Reply-To: jetvacfoxej@vacfo.com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <278738246.55176351149338@vacfo.com> To: rsvp-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: ***SPAM*** 89.902 (5) Need your help! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, my name is Tanya. I'm of 21 & I'm from Russia. Please vote for my profile at site: http://foreignw0men.info/?idAff=35 Thank You a lot!!! Tanya From cceptere2006@akimat.info Fri Feb 1 04:04:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61FB3A680E for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 04:04:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 50.266 X-Spam-Level: ************************************************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=50.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_DSBL=0.961, RCVD_IN_NJABL_PROXY=1.643, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_NONE=0.1, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 1.1 HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR HELO using IP Address (not private) * 1.5 FH_RELAY_NODNS We could not determine your Reverse DNS * 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 8 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 4 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 20 URIBL_BLACK Contains an URL listed in the URIBL blacklist * [URIs: rghpseopga.com] * 10 URIBL_JP_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the JP SURBL blocklist * [URIs: rghpseopga.com] * 1.6 RCVD_IN_NJABL_PROXY RBL: NJABL: sender is an open proxy * [81.193.82.135 listed in combined.njabl.org] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL RBL: SORBS: sent directly from dynamic IP address * [81.193.82.135 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] * 2.0 RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET RBL: Received via a relay in bl.spamcop.net * [Blocked - see ] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [81.193.82.135 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 1.0 RCVD_IN_DSBL RBL: Received via a relay in list.dsbl.org * [] * 0.1 RDNS_NONE Delivered to trusted network by a host with no rDNS * 2.8 DOS_OE_TO_MX Delivered direct to MX with OE headers Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5xhnWNJXPYzQ for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 04:04:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [213.13.202.164] (unknown [81.193.82.135]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B83F3A67EE for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 04:04:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000c01c864ca$db052ce0$3655c151@ruivx43> From: "Tarciso Duke" To: smime-archive@ietf.org Subject: ***SPAM*** 50.266 (5) Chicks will be AMAZED by your legendary PROWESS. Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 12:06:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C864CA.DB052CE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 ----------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C864CA.DB052CE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There will be no stopping you after this. Your powers are soon to be = unleashed. ----------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C864CA.DB052CE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There will be no stopping you = after this.=20 Your powers are soon to be unleashed. ----------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C864CA.DB052CE0-- From nenilusr1973@ElliottDavis.com Fri Feb 1 04:19:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B54E3A6935 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 04:19:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 49.818 X-Spam-Level: ************************************************* X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=49.818 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 1.1 HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR HELO using IP Address (not private) * 1.5 FH_RELAY_NODNS We could not determine your Reverse DNS * 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 8 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 4 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 20 URIBL_BLACK Contains an URL listed in the URIBL blacklist * [URIs: otieumu.com] * 10 URIBL_JP_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the JP SURBL blocklist * [URIs: otieumu.com] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [78.172.141.85 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 3.0 RCVD_IN_XBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus XBL * 2.0 RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET RBL: Received via a relay in bl.spamcop.net * [Blocked - see ] * 0.1 RDNS_NONE Delivered to trusted network by a host with no rDNS * 2.8 DOS_OE_TO_MX Delivered direct to MX with OE headers Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9w5beme6lcv7 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 04:19:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [78.172.141.85] (unknown [78.172.141.85]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08B03A68FD for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 04:19:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000f01c864cc$fa4e7190$558dac4e@tatoglu7rrlxl8> From: "raffaele Lintula" To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: ***SPAM*** 49.818 (5) Chicks will be AMAZED by your legendary PROWESS. Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 14:21:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C864DD.BDD74190" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 ----------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C864DD.BDD74190 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A well hung SCHLONG will get you places you've never been before. ----------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C864DD.BDD74190 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A well hung SCHLONG will get you = places you've=20 never been before. ----------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C864DD.BDD74190-- From jill@wsj.com Fri Feb 1 04:20:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1CC23A6935 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 04:20:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 93.632 X-Spam-Level: **************************************************************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=93.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, DRUGS_ERECTILE=1, DRUGS_ERECTILE_OBFU=1.5, FB_CIALIS_LEO3=3.899, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, FUZZY_CPILL=0.001, FUZZY_MEDICATION=2.717, GB_PHARMACY=1, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_MESSAGE=1, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, MANGLED_CIALIS=2.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_OBFU_PART_CIA=1.666, SARE_OBFU_PART_IAL=1.666, SARE_SPEC_LEO_MEDS=1.666, SUBJECT_DRUG_GAP_C=0.003, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 0.8 FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D Host starts with d-d-d-d * 1.1 HELO_EQ_DSL HELO_EQ_DSL * 0.9 FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB Host is d-d-d-d * 4.3 HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (HCC) * 4.4 HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2 Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (IP addr * 2) * 1.3 HOST_EQ_BR HOST_EQ_BR * 1.0 HELO_EQ_BR HELO_EQ_BR * 1.6 FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D Helo is d-d-d-d * 0.0 SUBJECT_DRUG_GAP_C Subject contains a gappy version of 'cialis' * 1.9 TVD_RCVD_IP TVD_RCVD_IP * 2.5 MANGLED_CIALIS BODY: mangled Cialis * 3.9 FB_CIALIS_LEO3 BODY: Uses a mis-spelled version of cialis. * 1.7 SARE_OBFU_PART_IAL BODY: obfusciation of word containing ial * 0.6 J_CHICKENPOX_14 BODY: 1alpha-pock-4alpha * 2.7 FUZZY_MEDICATION BODY: Attempt to obfuscate words in spam * 0.0 FUZZY_CPILL BODY: Attempt to obfuscate words in spam * 1.0 GB_PHARMACY BODY: I smoke two joints at night. * 1.7 SARE_SPEC_LEO_MEDS BODY: obfuscated subject body * 1.7 SARE_OBFU_PART_CIA BODY: obfusciation of word containing cia * 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 8 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 4 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 56] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 20 URIBL_BLACK Contains an URL listed in the URIBL blacklist * [URIs: nounout.com] * 10 URIBL_JP_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the JP SURBL blocklist * [URIs: nounout.com] * 10 URIBL_OB_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the OB SURBL blocklist * [URIs: nounout.com] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [201.15.64.200 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 3.0 RCVD_IN_XBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus XBL * 0.9 RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL RBL: SORBS: sent directly from dynamic IP address * [201.15.64.200 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] * 2.0 FM_DDDD_TIMES_2 Dual helo + host eq d_d_d_d * 1.5 DRUGS_ERECTILE_OBFU Obfuscated reference to an erectile drug * 1.0 DRUGS_ERECTILE Refers to an erectile drug * 0.1 RDNS_DYNAMIC Delivered to trusted network by host with * dynamic-looking rDNS * 2.8 DOS_OE_TO_MX Delivered direct to MX with OE headers Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hyvTtPlHPXS6 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 04:20:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from 201-15-64-200.cbace702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br (201-15-64-200.cbace702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [201.15.64.200]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE573A6841 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 04:20:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000901c864cd$01677af1$94deaf98@sijvs> From: "aguie twila" To: Subject: ***SPAM*** 93.632 (5) CIALLIS. Huge Discount Today! Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:35:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C864CD.0161F9D1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C864CD.0161F9D1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable an allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of the throat; = swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives); C1ALIS - From a pharmacy that believes in providing excellent services = and the cheapest pri_ces cheaapest meedications ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C864CD.0161F9D1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

an allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of the throat; = swelling of the lips, tongue, or face; or hives);

C1ALIS - From a = pharmacy that believes in providing excellent services and the cheapest = pri_ces cheaapest meedications

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C864CD.0161F9D1-- From norpete@ccc.ae Fri Feb 1 05:53:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E778E296101 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 05:50:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 35.669 X-Spam-Level: *********************************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=35.669 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 1.5 FH_RELAY_NODNS We could not determine your Reverse DNS * 0.0 NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP URI: Uses a dotted-decimal IP address in URL * 2.2 TVD_SPACE_RATIO BODY: TVD_SPACE_RATIO * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 8 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 2.0 RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET RBL: Received via a relay in bl.spamcop.net * [Blocked - see ] * 10 URIBL_WS_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the WS SURBL blocklist * [URIs: 87.252.185.48] * 10 URIBL_JP_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the JP SURBL blocklist * [URIs: 87.252.185.48] * 3.0 RCVD_IN_XBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus XBL * [122.163.177.163 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * 0.1 RDNS_NONE Delivered to trusted network by a host with no rDNS Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AZUzUQKG+BBj for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 05:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ABTS-NCR-Dynamic-163.177.163.122.airtelbroadband.in (unknown [122.163.177.163]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D7A3628E497 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 05:25:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ifaev ([35.98.83.215]) by ABTS-NCR-Dynamic-163.177.163.122.airtelbroadband.in (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id m11DTEYm034738; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:59:14 +0530 Message-ID: <47A31E11.5010406@ccc.ae> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:56:41 +0530 From: User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.13 (Windows/20070809) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: ***SPAM*** 35.669 (5) YourHealth provided here Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit More inches of enjoyment! 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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Size truly does matter! http://86.124.176.67/mejq/ From MackamnesiaEstrada@bogan.ca Fri Feb 1 05:56:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B5072964FB for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 05:55:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 17.024 X-Spam-Level: ***************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=17.024 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.116, INVALID_MSGID=1.9, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, SARE_MLH_Stock1=0.87, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 0.9 SARE_MLH_Stock1 Subject mentions stock or stock related words * 0.0 STOX_REPLY_TYPE STOX_REPLY_TYPE * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 4 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [77.134.49.254 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 1.5 DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX RBL: Envelope sender in * bogusmx.rfc-ignorant.org * 1.9 INVALID_MSGID Message-Id is not valid, according to RFC 2822 * 3.1 FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK Forged mail pretending to be from MS Outlook * 2.8 DOS_OE_TO_MX Delivered direct to MX with OE headers Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lcQzDY5PQJig for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 05:55:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from botte.residential.fw (213-156-52-104.fastres.net [213.156.52.104]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 25FCC293983 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 05:31:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: 3c5101c864d6$ed095590$1262f40b@botte From: "Clark Osborne" To: Subject: ***SPAM*** 17.024 (5) Market investor alert Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 14:32:23 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 No Looking back on G&S minerals Symbol-GSML Up 4 consecutive days for over 40% in profits and record volume Read the PR, the good news keeps coming. Add GSML to your Radar and watch it like a hawk. This company is going to $3. even if it hits half of projected forcast it would be a phenomenal 1000% profit. No other stock can deliver that in times like this Get in on GSML G&S minerals INC. 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Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:18:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from aerodirlog06ww.aeromensajeria.local (unknown [200.71.58.60]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4514128C1DC for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 07:59:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: 8d9c01c864ec$7fd787b0$8300a8c0@AERODIRLOG06WW From: "Beau Pugh" To: , " X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0CD83A68D7 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:37:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 94.912 X-Spam-Level: **************************************************************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=94.912 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 0.8 FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D Host starts with d-d-d-d * 2.4 HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (IP addr * 1) * 1.6 FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D Helo is d-d-d-d * 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 8 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 4 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 20 URIBL_BLACK Contains an URL listed in the URIBL blacklist * [URIs: otieumu.com] * 10 URIBL_AB_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the AB SURBL blocklist * [URIs: otieumu.com] * 10 URIBL_WS_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the WS SURBL blocklist * [URIs: otieumu.com] * 10 URIBL_JP_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the JP SURBL blocklist * [URIs: otieumu.com] * 10 URIBL_OB_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the OB SURBL blocklist * [URIs: otieumu.com] * 10 URIBL_SC_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the SC SURBL blocklist * [URIs: otieumu.com] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL RBL: SORBS: sent directly from dynamic IP address * [200.104.102.82 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [200.104.102.82 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 3.0 RCVD_IN_XBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus XBL * 2.0 RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET RBL: Received via a relay in bl.spamcop.net * [Blocked - see ] * 2.0 FM_DDDD_TIMES_2 Dual helo + host eq d_d_d_d * 0.1 RDNS_DYNAMIC Delivered to trusted network by host with * dynamic-looking rDNS * 2.8 DOS_OE_TO_MX Delivered direct to MX with OE headers Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MM2dTNeA93U6 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:37:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from pc-82-102-104-200.cm.vtr.net (pc-82-102-104-200.cm.vtr.net [200.104.102.82]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F7773A6888 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:37:14 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000701c864f0$ea570800$526668c8@angelicalpc> From: "rud Chowdhary" To: smime-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: ***SPAM*** 94.912 (5) Get a new huge colossal rod by clicking here. Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:38:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C864BE.9FBC9800" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 ----------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C864BE.9FBC9800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There will be no stopping you after this. Your powers are soon to be = unleashed. ----------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C864BE.9FBC9800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There will be no stopping you after = this. Your=20 powers are soon to be unleashed. ----------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C864BE.9FBC9800-- From guthrie@webworker.com Fri Feb 1 08:42:37 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 635003A699D for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:42:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 15.138 X-Spam-Level: *************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=15.138 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482, DNS_FROM_RFC_DSN=1.495, DOS_OE_TO_MX_IMAGE=3, EXTRA_MPART_TYPE=1, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, PART_CID_STOCK=1.635, PART_CID_STOCK_LESS=0.384, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, T_TVD_FW_GRAPHIC_ID1=0.01] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 0.3 HELO_EQ_DE HELO_EQ_DE * 1.0 EXTRA_MPART_TYPE Header has extraneous Content-type:...type= entry * -2.0 GB_I_LETTER BODY: We love to write letters! * 0.0 T_TVD_FW_GRAPHIC_ID1 BODY: T_TVD_FW_GRAPHIC_ID1 * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 4 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL RBL: SORBS: sent directly from dynamic IP address * [80.139.132.41 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [80.139.132.41 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 1.5 DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX RBL: Envelope sender in * bogusmx.rfc-ignorant.org * 1.5 DNS_FROM_RFC_DSN RBL: Envelope sender in dsn.rfc-ignorant.org * 1.6 PART_CID_STOCK Has a spammy image attachment (by Content-ID) * 0.4 PART_CID_STOCK_LESS Has a spammy image attachment (by Content-ID, * more specific) * 3.0 DOS_OE_TO_MX_IMAGE Direct to MX with OE headers and an image Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RAQVbJKzGcM3 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:42:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from p508B8429.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (p508B8429.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.139.132.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 482A53A683D for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:41:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000c01c864f1$03e93692$1b9a6b82@sfcvjcii> From: "kendrick chia-yin" To: Subject: ***SPAM*** 15.138 (5) It will be very pleasant for me to receive your answer! Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:55:55 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C864F1.03E75D0B" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C864F1.03E75D0B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello the man, not familiar for me! I understand, that you are very much surprised to see my letter now. But I ask, that you spent 10 minutes of time and read it. There is a probability that your and my life can change. First I wish to be presented to you. My name is Julya and I ask to name me so. To me of 29 years, I live in Russia in the city of Kirov. I am single and never married. I am finished school also have gone to study in school of beauty. . My life goes smoothly and in regular intervals, but unique lack during my life at me is not present the man which could make me happy. For all my life I could not meet the man which is necessary for me, but very much I want. Once in the evening I watched TV and there spoke, that in Russia 15000000 women who live without the man and that birth rate of women in Russia in 1,5 times more, than men. It is sad, but it is the fact. Also on the TV have told, that now many women use "Marriage agencies" which help to find suitable the man in any point our globe. I have found such agency here in my city and have addressed to them for this help. They have told to me, that their help paid and costs 1500 roubles. First I thought, that it is expensive for me, but then I have decided to not be greedy and have decided, that money not the most important for me during this life. During this life I want happiness, I want love, I want relations and happy family. Money cannot give to me of it and I have paid to them. They have suggested me to get acquainted with the man from other country. For me it was the big surprise and it is a little terrible, but nevertheless I have not refused. I have thought. Why to not try to get acquainted with the man from other country if I could not find my special man here in Russia. Probably my destiny. To be with the man from other country? I do not know. They to me gave yours e-mail the address also have told, that you also search the woman for your life. I have taken all data and have gone to the Internet of cafe as I can not use a computer well. I have asked the manager the Internet of cafe to create to me a letter box. I write now this letter to you and I hope, that you will answer me. Also here in my letter you should receive 2 my photos and at once can see my appearance. I think, that it is much more pleasant to receive the letter from the person and at once to see, how this person looks. Certainly appearance not the most important in the person as the private world of the person is much more interesting and it is most important, nevertheless my photos. Now you have learned a little about me and also can see, how I look also I ask to think. We can try to create serious relations or probably simply to be friends. If is not present, simply tell to me about it and I shall understand. And still I wished to speak to you. Very big request Also would like if you nevertheless are interested in me that write to me about yours e-mail where we with you could speak and a little good photos you have gone to me. Here like and all that I wished to speak with you and now I only needed to wait from you for the answer and I hope that you will write that to me if I was not pleasant to you or serious relations are not necessary to you let to me know. The lonely woman from Russia Julya! 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X-Spam-Level: **************************************************************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=69.783 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BLUEYON=1.4, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 1.4 HELO_EQ_BLUEYON HELO_EQ_BLUEYON * 1.4 HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE * 0.8 FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D Host starts with d-d-d-d * 0.8 HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE * 0.9 FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB Host is d-d-d-d * 4.3 HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (HCC) * 4.4 HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2 Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (IP addr * 2) * 1.6 FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D Helo is d-d-d-d * 0.0 STOX_REPLY_TYPE STOX_REPLY_TYPE * 1.9 TVD_RCVD_IP TVD_RCVD_IP * 0.0 NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP URI: Uses a dotted-decimal IP address in URL * 20 URIBL_BLACK Contains an URL listed in the URIBL blacklist * [URIs: 68.37.81.3] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL RBL: SORBS: sent directly from dynamic IP address * [82.34.77.47 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [82.34.77.47 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 3.0 RCVD_IN_XBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus XBL * 2.0 RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET RBL: Received via a relay in bl.spamcop.net * [Blocked - see ] * 10 URIBL_WS_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the WS SURBL blocklist * [URIs: 68.37.81.3] * 10 URIBL_JP_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the JP SURBL blocklist * [URIs: 68.37.81.3] * 2.0 FM_DDDD_TIMES_2 Dual helo + host eq d_d_d_d * 0.1 RDNS_DYNAMIC Delivered to trusted network by host with * dynamic-looking rDNS Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UmOYdjtT+Q+i for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:21:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from 82-34-77-47.cable.ubr03.gill.blueyonder.co.uk (82-34-77-47.cable.ubr03.gill.blueyonder.co.uk [82.34.77.47]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B42FF28C1A4 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:21:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from qfez ([168.39.100.55]) by 82-34-77-47.cable.ubr03.gill.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:23:32 +0000 Message-ID: <001301c864ff$8cd27520$376427a8@qfez> From: To: Subject: ***SPAM*** 69.783 (5) The Miracle of Love Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:23:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Dream of You http://68.37.81.3/ From ElizabethcurieOconnell@ftworthfc.com Fri Feb 1 10:32:56 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9F8A3A6948; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:32:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 17.024 X-Spam-Level: ***************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=17.024 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.116, INVALID_MSGID=1.9, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, SARE_MLH_Stock1=0.87, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 0.9 SARE_MLH_Stock1 Subject mentions stock or stock related words * 0.0 STOX_REPLY_TYPE STOX_REPLY_TYPE * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 4 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [77.134.49.254 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 1.5 DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX RBL: Envelope sender in * bogusmx.rfc-ignorant.org * 1.9 INVALID_MSGID Message-Id is not valid, according to RFC 2822 * 3.1 FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK Forged mail pretending to be from MS Outlook * 2.8 DOS_OE_TO_MX Delivered direct to MX with OE headers Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xYVaPmihBIqn; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:32:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from pc154.esclspain.local (unknown [84.20.25.218]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E6743A68AE; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:32:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: 86ec901c864ff$ef378390$3afe12ac@PC154 From: "Carol Haas" To: Subject: ***SPAM*** 17.024 (5) Superstar stock report Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 19:25:59 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 No Looking back on G&S minerals Symbol-GSML Up 4 consecutive days for over 40% in profits and record volume Read the PR, the good news keeps coming. Add GSML to your Radar and watch it like a hawk. This company is going to $3. even if it hits half of projected forcast it would be a phenomenal 1000% profit. No other stock can deliver that in times like this Get in on GSML G&S minerals INC. From MichellealecDougherty@declinemagazine.com Fri Feb 1 10:37:01 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 309A628C2F0 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:37:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 17.024 X-Spam-Level: ***************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=17.024 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK=3.116, INVALID_MSGID=1.9, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, SARE_MLH_Stock1=0.87, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 0.9 SARE_MLH_Stock1 Subject mentions stock or stock related words * 0.0 STOX_REPLY_TYPE STOX_REPLY_TYPE * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 4 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [77.134.49.254 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 1.5 DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX RBL: Envelope sender in * bogusmx.rfc-ignorant.org * 1.9 INVALID_MSGID Message-Id is not valid, according to RFC 2822 * 3.1 FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK Forged mail pretending to be from MS Outlook * 2.8 DOS_OE_TO_MX Delivered direct to MX with OE headers Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3GY5gtdmFKSZ for ; 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Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:38:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from computer.myhome.westell.com (pool-151-205-205-59.cap.east.verizon.net [151.205.205.59]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 65EDB28C52B; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:38:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: 1534e01c86502$19a0d5d0$2f01a8c0@computer From: "Deborah Wang" To: Cc: , " X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9014328C52B for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:40:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 79.818 X-Spam-Level: **************************************************************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=79.818 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 1.1 HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR HELO using IP Address (not private) * 1.5 FH_RELAY_NODNS We could not determine your Reverse DNS * 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 8 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 4 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 20 URIBL_BLACK Contains an URL listed in the URIBL blacklist * [URIs: cutheyts.com] * 10 URIBL_WS_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the WS SURBL blocklist * [URIs: cutheyts.com] * 10 URIBL_JP_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the JP SURBL blocklist * [URIs: cutheyts.com] * 10 URIBL_OB_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the OB SURBL blocklist * [URIs: cutheyts.com] * 10 URIBL_SC_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the SC SURBL blocklist * [URIs: cutheyts.com] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [41.251.67.71 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 3.0 RCVD_IN_XBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus XBL * 2.0 RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET RBL: Received via a relay in bl.spamcop.net * [Blocked - see ] * 0.1 RDNS_NONE Delivered to trusted network by a host with no rDNS * 2.8 DOS_OE_TO_MX Delivered direct to MX with OE headers Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0hyUf1DN2NPR for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:40:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [41.251.67.233] (unknown [41.251.67.71]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 204B528C53F for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:38:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000e01c86501$e6c25fd0$e943fb29@STATISTIQUES> From: "jeffory Arth" <_tiasiat@NEMS.ORG> To: smime-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: ***SPAM*** 79.818 (5) Give the girls what they want with your long and hard instrument. Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 18:40:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C86501.E6C25FD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 ----------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C86501.E6C25FD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A well hung SCHLONG will get you places you've never been before. ----------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C86501.E6C25FD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A well hung SCHLONG will get you = places=20 you've never been before. ----------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C86501.E6C25FD0-- From PamelawonderlandGalvan@faqs.org Fri Feb 1 10:43:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9791728C56F; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:43:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 18.649 X-Spam-Level: ****************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=18.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DATE_IN_PAST_06_12=1.069, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_LH_HOME=3.714, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_MLH_Stock7=1.66] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 3.7 HELO_LH_HOME HELO_LH_HOME * 1.5 FH_RELAY_NODNS We could not determine your Reverse DNS * 1.7 SARE_MLH_Stock7 Various common stock subjects * 1.1 DATE_IN_PAST_06_12 Date: is 6 to 12 hours before Received: date * 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 4 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [190.128.99.252 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 0.1 RDNS_NONE Delivered to trusted network by a host with no rDNS * 2.8 DOS_OE_TO_MX Delivered direct to MX with OE headers Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FBZcqAE2M1wE; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:43:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from lili.lan (unknown [190.128.99.252]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D4F9B28C577; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:41:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c0301c86502$3f008dc0$4001a8c0@lili> From: "Shirley Mora" To: , " =20
We told you to keep = watching, G &=20 S Minerals... Symol : GSML

Gold is reaching = record of $1000/=20 oz ... GSML is the undiscovered gem you should be invested=20 in.

Up 4 straight days with = record=20 volume

If you missed the move = from .13 to .17=20 dont dispair they have not even scratched the surfact.

This company is going to=20 $3.00

So grab yourself = some GSML and=20 earn easy 10 bagger

------=_NextPart_000_4BFF_01C86502.3F008DC0-- From Shandon-gross-ma@akprinting.co.uk Fri Feb 1 11:07:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6703028C2EE for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:07:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Score: 97.354 X-Spam-Level: **************************************************************** X-Spam-Status: Yes, score=97.354 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FRT_ERECTION=3.642, FUZZY_ERECT=0.804, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_MESSAGE=1, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_52=0.6, MANGLED_ERECTN=2.3, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_DSBL=0.961, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_OBFU_PART_ION=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10] X-Spam-Report: * 3.5 BAYES_99 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 99 to 100% * [score: 1.0000] * 1.4 HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE * 0.8 FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D Host starts with d-d-d-d * 3.5 HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (Split * IP) * 1.1 HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR HELO using IP Address (not private) * 0.8 HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE * 0.9 FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB Host is d-d-d-d * 4.3 HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (HCC) * 4.4 HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2 Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (IP addr * 2) * 1.9 TVD_RCVD_IP TVD_RCVD_IP * 2.1 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO * 3.6 FRT_ERECTION BODY: ReplaceTags: Erection * 2.3 MANGLED_ERECTN BODY: mangled erection(s) * 0.6 J_CHICKENPOX_33 BODY: 3alpha-pock-3alpha * 1.7 SARE_OBFU_PART_ION BODY: obfusciation of word containing ion * 0.8 FUZZY_ERECT BODY: Attempt to obfuscate words in spam * 0.6 J_CHICKENPOX_52 BODY: 5alpha-pock-2alpha * 0.6 J_CHICKENPOX_13 BODY: 1alpha-pock-3alpha * 1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 8 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CHECK Listed in Razor2 (http://razor.sf.net/) * 1.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100 Razor2 gives engine 4 confidence level * above 50% * [cf: 100] * 0.5 RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100 Razor2 gives confidence level above 50% * [cf: 100] * 10 URIBL_WS_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the WS SURBL blocklist * [URIs: wemsus.com] * 10 URIBL_JP_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the JP SURBL blocklist * [URIs: wemsus.com] * 10 URIBL_OB_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the OB SURBL blocklist * [URIs: wemsus.com] * 20 URIBL_BLACK Contains an URL listed in the URIBL blacklist * [URIs: wemsus.com] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL RBL: SORBS: sent directly from dynamic IP address * [84.94.102.218 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] * 2.0 RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET RBL: Received via a relay in bl.spamcop.net * [Blocked - see ] * 0.9 RCVD_IN_PBL RBL: Received via a relay in Spamhaus PBL * [84.94.102.218 listed in zen.spamhaus.org] * 1.0 RCVD_IN_DSBL RBL: Received via a relay in list.dsbl.org * [] * 0.1 RDNS_DYNAMIC Delivered to trusted network by host with * dynamic-looking rDNS * 2.8 DOS_OE_TO_MX Delivered direct to MX with OE headers Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s5MpksvNYh3e for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:07:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from 84.94.102.218.cable.012.net.il (84.94.102.218.cable.012.net.il [84.94.102.218]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 668C928C359 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:58:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001001c86505$3ac092c0$770f5e54@p4> From: "Shandon Gunko" To: smime-archive@megatron.ietf.org Subject: ***SPAM*** 97.354 (5) Always wondered how others could have some big d1cks? Here's the answer. Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:04:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C86515.FE4962C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 ----------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C86515.FE4962C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tired of losing your erect1on in 15 minutes, or a small sch1ong? Here is = the solution. ----------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C86515.FE4962C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tired of losing your erect1on in 15 = minutes, or=20 a small sch1ong? 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To: Subject: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:34:59 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: AchzFV52ULPznMhlTPS8l/PllUrofg== Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty clear to me that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other key sizes are MAY. I'm suggesting the following text: Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes larger than 2048 MAY be supported. Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes smaller than 1024? I also removed the ECDSA text so the key sizes only refer to RSA/DSA keys. spt From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 19 10:57:46 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC80F28C4F7 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:57:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.557 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.557 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rAJgh26uTEFa for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:57:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C58B128C68B for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:57:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1JIgW7S091444 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:42:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1JIgWRn091443; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:42:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from [10.20.30.152] (dsl-63-249-108-169.cruzio.com [63.249.108.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1JIgKP8091410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:42:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from phoffman@imc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> References: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:42:17 -0800 To: "Turner, Sean P." , From: Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty clear to me that >key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other key sizes are MAY. >I'm suggesting the following text: > >Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes larger >than 2048 MAY be supported. Sure. >Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes smaller than 1024? MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Tue Feb 19 14:34:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E7E83A6996 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:34:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.289 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.289 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.046, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0WWsNkHw+nTn for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:34:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B20D3A67E2 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 14:34:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1JMKwNK015375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:20:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1JMKwhB015374; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:20:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [8.8.40.152]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1JMKu5B015366 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:20:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Message-Id: <200802192220.m1JMKu5B015366@balder-227.proper.com> Received: (qmail 2324 invoked by uid 0); 19 Feb 2008 22:20:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (72.83.129.167) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2008 22:20:48 -0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:08:30 -0500 To: "Turner, Sean P." , From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 In-Reply-To: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> References: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Sean: > From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty clear to me that >key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other key sizes are MAY. >I'm suggesting the following text: > >Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes larger >than 2048 MAY be supported. s/buts/bits/ >Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes smaller than 1024? I think we ought to be forgiving on receive. Thus, I suggest: Message originators SHOULD NOT use key sizes smaller than 1024 bits for private key operations. Russ From mahlon4bertie64@fujitsu.com Tue Feb 19 17:17:46 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 978B728C392 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:17:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.904 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.904 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FB_REPLICA_ROLEX=3.157, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, FS_REPLICA=0.994, GB_ROLEX=5, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, REPLICA_WATCH=3.396, SARE_SPEC_REPLICA_OBFU=1.812, SARE_SPEC_ROLEX=1.666, SARE_SPEC_ROLEX_REP=1.666, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e+Bhmnr0MrTA for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:17:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from c-76-110-12-8.hsd1.fl.comcast.net (c-76-110-12-8.hsd1.fl.comcast.net [76.110.12.8]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0108C28C46E for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:17:22 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000701c8735e$0315fa73$6b0f2bbf@wuhrj> From: "johnathan minerva" To: "Kathryn Stern" Subject: exclusive replica rolex Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:29:51 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 The finest of luxury timepieces at the LOWEST prices!! http://brawnpublicskunk.com/ From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 20 02:43:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDCCA3A69C4 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:43:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.33 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.33 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.411, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_BAD_ID=2.837] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KRW8TA2M35SB for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CDA03A6974 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KAPAo9081530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:25:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KAPAKT081529; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:25:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KAP71E081520 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:25:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-mcl1.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.20]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14046 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:34:17 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2008022011244362:51263 ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:24:43 +0100 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:24:35 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 20/02/2008 11:24:43, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 20/02/2008 11:25:04, Serialize complete at 20/02/2008 11:25:04 Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: >Sean: > >> From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty clear to me that >>key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other key sizes are MAY. >>I'm suggesting the following text: >> >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes larger >>than 2048 MAY be supported. > >s/buts/bits/ > >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes smaller than 1024? > >I think we ought to be forgiving on receive. Thus, I suggest: >Message originators SHOULD NOT use key sizes smaller than 1024 bits >for private key operations. Recommendations for key sizes depend on the usage of the key. If the private key is to be used to sign data in the context of an authentication service or a non repudiation service, then the private key shall resist during the validity period of the certificate (usually one to three years). If the key size has been chosen too small, there is no security breach: it is only needed to revoke the certificate. If the private key is to be used to decrypt data, than the key should resist as long as the encrypted data should be kept confidential. RFC 3161 is using S-MIME. If the key is to be used for a Time Stamping Unit (TSU), it had better to resist quite longer and 2048 bits would be recommended. These kinds o recommendations should be included in the security considerations section. As far as interoperability is concerned the current text is: "A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 768 bits". This key size is still safe for authentication and non repudiation and thus there is no reason to raise this value. >Russ Denis From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 20 04:40:19 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04DC328C184 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:40:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.891 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.891 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.155, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OcyaCeZqEvXQ for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:40:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21BBC28C7B8 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 04:40:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KCOQox093699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:24:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KCOQx2093698; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:24:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.52.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KCOO4A093670 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:24:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 6800 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2008 12:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@71.191.14.100 with login) by smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 12:24:09 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 1hL5Z9wVM1kFJ64B7l_.lPKezxtOUsQAbiTfPNOfAY2XehaLKCOAnAMC2q_YCy.wq3B8CiNAJCl4JD.kNe4tM80T9UuFCo5HnBaJXAiNWDaHrTqaYBLpH8gKRKX8Omv_fe_Wx2v4uq1IV5s- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Turner, Sean P." To: References: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:17:07 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AchzKUBRPjORgh9DSkSTfmoeChzg5AAj9W9g Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: I should have been clearer. RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. Suggesting it be replaced with: Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then the S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or function SHOULD generate RSA key pairs using the following guidelines. A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 was 768 ^^^^ bits. A user agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 bits long. Creating keys longer than ^^^ was 512 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to not be able to verify signatures, but gives better security and is therefore valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify signatures with keys of any size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United ^^^ was 512 States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get more advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are considered by many to be cryptographically insecure. Implementers SHOULD be aware that multiple (active) key pairs can be associated with a single individual. For example, one key pair can be used to support confidentiality, while a different key pair can be used for authentication. Thoughts? spt >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > > >At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >clear to me >>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >key sizes are MAY. >>I'm suggesting the following text: >> >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes >>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. > >Sure. > >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >smaller than 1024? > >MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? > From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 20 05:12:48 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B26D328C17C for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:12:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.323 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.323 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.277, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UixBJMz2tfTe for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:12:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59FF228C7E4 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:11:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KCvNj2096749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:57:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KCvN6N096748; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:57:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.52.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KCvMJp096739 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:57:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 24817 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2008 12:57:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@96.231.128.115 with login) by smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 12:57:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 1YWwOkYVM1nIbDoep21eV31oMam40jEJNMXcuqhaY_y7w62t X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Turner, Sean P." To: References: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:50:20 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <019c01c873bf$26f8b380$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> Thread-Index: AchzKUBRPjORgh9DSkSTfmoeChzg5AAj9W9gAAFi5EA= Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Turner, Sean P. >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:17 AM >To: ietf-smime@imc.org >Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > > >I should have been clearer. > >RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): > > Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >Suggesting it be replaced with: > > Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): > > If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then >the S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or >function SHOULD generate RSA key pairs using the following >guidelines. A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a >minimum key size of 1024 bits. > was 768 ^^^^ >A user agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 > was 512 ^^^ >bits long. Creating keys longer than > 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to >not be able to verify signatures, but gives better security >and is therefore valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able >to verify signatures with keys of any size over 768 bits. > was 512 ^^^ >Some agents created in the United > States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get >more advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are >considered by many to be cryptographically insecure. >Implementers SHOULD be aware that multiple > (active) key pairs can be associated with a single >individual. For example, one key pair can be used to support >confidentiality, while a different key pair can be used for >authentication. > >Thoughts? > >spt > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >>[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >>Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >>To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >>Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >> >> >>At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >>> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >>clear to me >>>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >>key sizes are MAY. >>>I'm suggesting the following text: >>> >>>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes >>>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. >> >>Sure. >> >>>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >>smaller than 1024? >> >>MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? >> > From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 20 05:16:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899A028C11A for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:16:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.651 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.651 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.395, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YfWwtg8Qvvpp for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:16:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E06628C17F for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:16:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KD00n8097080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:00:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KD00op097079; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:00:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (yxa.extundo.com [83.241.177.38]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KCxtFL097068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:59:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from simon@josefsson.org) Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [83.241.177.38]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id m1KCxdxR018089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:59:41 +0100 From: Simon Josefsson To: "Turner\, Sean P." Cc: Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 References: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:080220:ietf-smime@imc.org::98GkO61g+XO0Lwua:HTVW X-Hashcash: 1:22:080220:turners@ieca.com::4h26LYwMBjXToJZe:eM70 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:59:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> (Sean P. Turner's message of "Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:17:07 -0500") Message-ID: <878x1fokas.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110007 (No Gnus v0.7) Emacs/22.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: "Turner, Sean P." writes: > I should have been clearer. > > RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): > > Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > > Suggesting it be replaced with: > > Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > > Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): > > If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, > then the S/MIME agent or some related administrative > utility or function SHOULD generate RSA key pairs > using the following guidelines. A user agent SHOULD > generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 > was 768 ^^^^ > bits. A user agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs > less than 768 bits long. Creating keys longer than > ^^^ was 512 > 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents > to not be able to verify signatures, but gives better > security and is therefore valuable. A receiving agent > SHOULD be able to verify signatures with keys of any > size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United > ^^^ was 512 I agree with your proposed change except for the last one -- is there any motivation to drop the SHOULD regarding verification of signatures done with 512 bit keys? I don't think there is one. Alerting the user that the key is insecure, or other user interface considerations, is orthogonal to the actual verification. /Simon > States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to > get more advantageous export licenses. However, 512 > bit keys are considered by many to be cryptographically > insecure. Implementers SHOULD be aware that multiple > (active) key pairs can be associated with a single > individual. For example, one key pair can be used > to support confidentiality, while a different key pair > can be used for authentication. > > Thoughts? > > spt > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >>[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >>Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >>To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >>Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >> >> >>At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >>> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >>clear to me >>>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >>key sizes are MAY. >>>I'm suggesting the following text: >>> >>>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes >>>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. >> >>Sure. >> >>>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >>smaller than 1024? >> >>MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? >> From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 20 06:25:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3708928C21A for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:25:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.281 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.281 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JgGtcxKPD+Iw for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:25:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDFD628C1B8 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:25:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KE9YUx004549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:09:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KE9YhU004548; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:09:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [8.8.40.152]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KE9XfC004534 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:09:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Message-Id: <200802201409.m1KE9XfC004534@balder-227.proper.com> Received: (qmail 20806 invoked by uid 0); 20 Feb 2008 14:09:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (72.83.129.167) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 14:09:30 -0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:09:29 -0500 To: "Denis Pinkas" From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Denis: >As far as interoperability is concerned the current text is: >"A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of >768 bits". This statement is in conflict with the consensus call that the WG Chair made at the beginning of the thread. Sean said: >> From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty clear to me that >>key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other key sizes are MAY. Russ From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 20 06:46:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E7C28C187 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:46:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.267 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.267 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ohbJyl7yXR4L for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 066B83A695C for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:46:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KEWut8007573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:32:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KEWuWj007572; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:32:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [8.8.40.152]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KEWt54007565 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Message-Id: <200802201432.m1KEWt54007565@balder-227.proper.com> Received: (qmail 27627 invoked by uid 0); 20 Feb 2008 14:32:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (72.83.129.167) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 14:32:53 -0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:16:02 -0500 To: "Turner, Sean P." From: Russ Housley Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org In-Reply-To: <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> References: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Sean: Given the proposed text, it sounds like you really want to say that key sizes from 768 to 2048 bits must be supported, even though you are recommending 1024 bits as the minimum for newly generated keys. Russ At 07:17 AM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >I should have been clearer. > >RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): > > Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >Suggesting it be replaced with: > > Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): > > If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, > then the S/MIME agent or some related administrative > utility or function SHOULD generate RSA key pairs > using the following guidelines. A user agent SHOULD > generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 > was 768 ^^^^ > bits. A user agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs > less than 768 bits long. Creating keys longer than > ^^^ was 512 > 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents > to not be able to verify signatures, but gives better > security and is therefore valuable. A receiving agent > SHOULD be able to verify signatures with keys of any > size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United > ^^^ was 512 > States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to > get more advantageous export licenses. However, 512 > bit keys are considered by many to be cryptographically > insecure. Implementers SHOULD be aware that multiple > (active) key pairs can be associated with a single > individual. For example, one key pair can be used > to support confidentiality, while a different key pair > can be used for authentication. > >Thoughts? > >spt > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org > >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman > >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM > >To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org > >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > > > > > >At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty > >clear to me > >>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other > >key sizes are MAY. > >>I'm suggesting the following text: > >> > >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes > >>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. > > > >Sure. > > > >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes > >smaller than 1024? > > > >MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? > > From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 20 08:13:35 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1E03A6E65 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:13:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.248 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.107, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_BAD_ID=2.837] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 47BbIOSWKSAH for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:13:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F61D3A6E57 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:13:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KFnUVd016291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:49:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KFnU1L016290; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:49:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KFnSDR016271 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:49:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31232 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:58:34 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2008022016491013:60885 ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:49:10 +0100 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:49:07 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 20/02/2008 16:49:10, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 20/02/2008 16:49:23, Serialize complete at 20/02/2008 16:49:23 Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Sean, I like the proposed text, with two exceptions: A - " A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify signatures with keys of any size over 768 bits". 1 - The upper limit is unlimited, so I would not like that sentence to be interpreted so that we SHOULD support 4096 bits keys :-( 2 - With that sentence, there is no MUST for a receiving agent. We should have sentences like: A receiving agent SHALL ... A receiving agent SHOULD ... The following is a try: A receiving agent SHALL be able to verify signatures with keys of any size between 768 bits and 2048 bits. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify signatures with keys of any size between 512 bits and 767 bits, for backwards compatibility. OR A receiving agent SHALL be able to verify signatures with keys of any size between 1024 bits and 2048 bits. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify signatures with keys of any size between 512 bits and 1023 bits. B - Then the following text should be improved and moved in the security considerations section: " Implementers SHOULD be aware that multiple (active) key pairs can be associated with a single individual. For example, one key pair can be used to support confidentiality, while a different key pair can be used for authentication". I suggest to use the material sent in my earlier e-mail. Denis =============================================================== >I should have been clearer. > >RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): > > Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >Suggesting it be replaced with: > > Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): > > If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, > then the S/MIME agent or some related administrative > utility or function SHOULD generate RSA key pairs > using the following guidelines. A user agent SHOULD > generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 > was 768 ^^^^ > bits. A user agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs > less than 768 bits long. Creating keys longer than > ^^^ was 512 > 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents > to not be able to verify signatures, but gives better > security and is therefore valuable. A receiving agent > SHOULD be able to verify signatures with keys of any > size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United > ^^^ was 512 > States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to > get more advantageous export licenses. However, 512 > bit keys are considered by many to be cryptographically > insecure. Implementers SHOULD be aware that multiple > (active) key pairs can be associated with a single > individual. For example, one key pair can be used > to support confidentiality, while a different key pair > can be used for authentication. > >Thoughts? > >spt > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >>[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >>Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >>To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >>Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >> >> >>At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >>> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >>clear to me >>>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >>key sizes are MAY. >>>I'm suggesting the following text: >>> >>>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes >>>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. >> >>Sure. >> >>>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >>smaller than 1024? >> >>MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? >> > > Regards, Denis Pinkas From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 20 08:24:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F326F3A6E35 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:24:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.63 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.63 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.416, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r9pYC-jGGNra for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:24:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10E183A6950 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:24:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KGCCMG019313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:12:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KGCCr4019312; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:12:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp108.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp108.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.52.47]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KGC8OH019304 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:12:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 47974 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2008 16:12:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@96.231.128.115 with login) by smtp108.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 16:12:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Turner, Sean P." To: "'Russ Housley'" Cc: References: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:05:00 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <021001c873da$58a51de0$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AchzzX1vcMVj16GpTQCNiGr/lVDVmwADGGCA Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: How about for 3851bis: A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 bits. A user agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 1024 bits long. I'll move the 768 back to 512 as suggested by Simon. spt >-----Original Message----- >From: Russ Housley [mailto:housley@vigilsec.com] >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:16 AM >To: Turner, Sean P. >Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org >Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > >Sean: > >Given the proposed text, it sounds like you really want to say >that key sizes from 768 to 2048 bits must be supported, even >though you are recommending 1024 bits as the minimum for newly >generated keys. > >Russ > >At 07:17 AM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >>I should have been clearer. >> >>RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): >> >> Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >> >>Suggesting it be replaced with: >> >> Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >> >>Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): >> >> If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then the >> S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or function >> SHOULD generate RSA key pairs using the following >guidelines. A user >> agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 >> was 768 ^^^^ bits. A user >> agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 bits long. >> Creating keys longer than >> ^^^ was 512 >> 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to not be >> able to verify signatures, but gives better security and is >therefore >> valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify >signatures with >> keys of any size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United >> ^^^ was 512 >> States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get more >> advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are considered >> by many to be cryptographically insecure. Implementers SHOULD be >> aware that multiple >> (active) key pairs can be associated with a single >individual. For >> example, one key pair can be used to support >confidentiality, while a >> different key pair can be used for authentication. >> >>Thoughts? >> >>spt >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >> >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >> >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >> >To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >> >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >> > >> > >> >At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >> >> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >> >clear to me >> >>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >> >key sizes are MAY. >> >>I'm suggesting the following text: >> >> >> >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. >Keys sizes >> >>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. >> > >> >Sure. >> > >> >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >> >smaller than 1024? >> > >> >MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? >> > > From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 20 08:49:59 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C4CD28C7A5 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:49:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.234 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.234 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.093, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_BAD_ID=2.837] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Tm8aUbVa0PI for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:49:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D244328C800 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KGYIdJ021555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:34:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KGYIhs021554; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:34:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KGYFM8021539 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:34:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05762 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:43:26 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2008022017340595:62333 ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:34:05 +0100 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:34:03 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 20/02/2008 17:34:05, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 20/02/2008 17:34:15, Serialize complete at 20/02/2008 17:34:15 Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: >How about for 3851bis: A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a >minimum key size of 1024 bits. A user agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs >less than 1024 bits long. With these two sentences there is no more room for key sizes less than 1024 bits. 768 bits is still fully adequate, even we can recommend to use 1024 bits as the minimum. Denis >I'll move the 768 back to 512 as suggested by Simon. > >spt >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Russ Housley [mailto:housley@vigilsec.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:16 AM >>To: Turner, Sean P. >>Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org >>Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >> >>Sean: >> >>Given the proposed text, it sounds like you really want to say >>that key sizes from 768 to 2048 bits must be supported, even >>though you are recommending 1024 bits as the minimum for newly >>generated keys. >> >>Russ >> >>At 07:17 AM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >> >>>I should have been clearer. >>> >>>RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): >>> >>> Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >>> >>>Suggesting it be replaced with: >>> >>> Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >>> >>>Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): >>> >>> If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then the >>> S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or function >>> SHOULD generate RSA key pairs using the following >>guidelines. A user >>> agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 >>> was 768 ^^^^ bits. A user >>> agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 bits long. >>> Creating keys longer than >>> ^^^ was 512 >>> 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to not be >>> able to verify signatures, but gives better security and is >>therefore >>> valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify >>signatures with >>> keys of any size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United >>> ^^^ was 512 >>> States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get more >>> advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are considered >>> by many to be cryptographically insecure. Implementers SHOULD be >>> aware that multiple >>> (active) key pairs can be associated with a single >>individual. For >>> example, one key pair can be used to support >>confidentiality, while a >>> different key pair can be used for authentication. >>> >>>Thoughts? >>> >>>spt >>> >>> >-----Original Message----- >>> >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >>> >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >>> >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >>> >To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >>> >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >>> > >>> > >>> >At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >>> >> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >>> >clear to me >>> >>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >>> >key sizes are MAY. >>> >>I'm suggesting the following text: >>> >> >>> >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. >>Keys sizes >>> >>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. >>> > >>> >Sure. >>> > >>> >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >>> >smaller than 1024? >>> > >>> >MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? >>> > >> > > Regards, Denis Pinkas From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 20 09:03:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1575E28C8C3 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:03:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.734 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.734 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.312, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HC5y6rTVRtvK for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:03:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C12528C241 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:02:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KGmVoH023942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:48:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KGmVSh023941; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:48:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp110.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp110.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.53.9]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KGmUKf023933 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:48:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 91561 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2008 16:48:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@96.231.128.115 with login) by smtp110.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 16:48:29 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: aYM5uH0VM1m5qn.Tqa2q86q4nzZxr3TueDL6G9MWRzX3nMu8vzfGzSM2eERpEMULBuxP381GSA-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Turner, Sean P." To: "'Denis Pinkas'" , References: Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:41:27 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <023401c873df$706752e0$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Achz24eYkcBuw5ktTJ2uE2MqLrGpfgAACc/A Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Denis, Comments inline... spt >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:49 AM >To: ietf-smime@imc.org >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > > >Sean, > >I like the proposed text, with two exceptions: > >A - " A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify signatures >with keys of any size over 768 bits". > >1 - The upper limit is unlimited, so I would not like that sentence > to be interpreted so that we SHOULD support 4096 bits keys :-( In December we talked about keys large than 2048 and most people felt that they should be a MAY. >2 - With that sentence, there is no MUST for a receiving agent. > >We should have sentences like: > >A receiving agent SHALL ... >A receiving agent SHOULD ... > >The following is a try: > >A receiving agent SHALL be able to verify signatures with keys >of any size between 768 bits and 2048 bits. > >A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify signatures with >keys of any size between 512 bits and 767 bits, for backwards >compatibility. > >OR > >A receiving agent SHALL be able to verify signatures with keys >of any size between 1024 bits and 2048 bits. > >A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify signatures with >keys of any size between 512 bits and 1023 bits. The reason I think it's a SHOULD as opposed to SHALL is that they didn't want to limit the upper bounds. If we change this to a SHALL then we have to decide where the upper bounds is. I actually prefer to leave this as SHOULD verify signatures with keys any size over 512 bits. >B - Then the following text should be improved and moved in >the security considerations section: > >" Implementers SHOULD be aware that multiple >(active) key pairs can be associated with a single individual. > For example, one key pair can be used to support >confidentiality, while a different key pair can be used for >authentication". We can move the text. >I suggest to use the material sent in my earlier e-mail. > >Denis > >=============================================================== > >>I should have been clearer. >> >>RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): >> >> Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >> >>Suggesting it be replaced with: >> >> Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >> >>Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): >> >> If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then >the S/MIME >> agent or some related administrative utility or function SHOULD >> generate RSA key pairs using the following guidelines. A user agent >> SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 >> was 768 ^^^^ bits. A user >> agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 bits long. >> Creating keys longer than >> ^^^ was 512 >> 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to >not be able >> to verify signatures, but gives better security and is therefore >> valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify >signatures with >> keys of any size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United >> ^^^ was 512 >> States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get more >> advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are >considered by >> many to be cryptographically insecure. Implementers SHOULD be aware >> that multiple >> (active) key pairs can be associated with a single individual. For >> example, one key pair can be used to support >confidentiality, while a >> different key pair can be used for authentication. >> >>Thoughts? >> >>spt >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >>>[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >>>Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >>>To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >>>Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >>> >>> >>>At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >>>> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >>>clear to me >>>>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >>>key sizes are MAY. >>>>I'm suggesting the following text: >>>> >>>>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes >>>>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. >>> >>>Sure. >>> >>>>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >>>smaller than 1024? >>> >>>MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? >>> >> >> > >Regards, > >Denis Pinkas > > > From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 20 09:30:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7694E28C657 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:30:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.797 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.797 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.249, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KWMGm8UMgl53 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:30:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5743928C61D for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:30:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KHHm1W027352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:17:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KHHmQE027351; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:17:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.52.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KHHlxf027343 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:17:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 67666 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2008 17:17:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@96.231.128.115 with login) by smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 17:17:46 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: HzaxvK0VM1nYUlTLHok1REp4S9cE5x5ugWw14uw3wt4DnNyE29PzubYUP.NMnLDkTdyB5E4NLaoFGMa8IZsu2wvfthExlZtLuSBSjzrEMiiT44PuEVzjN1.ZskR2XTor1pznD6407BslVXk- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Turner, Sean P." To: "'Denis Pinkas'" , References: Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:10:44 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <024b01c873e3$87acfa50$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Achz4JnIXKI+V90zR3qhwmRZ9EMiBwAAR2uA Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: As I dig around, I find that 1024 is pretty much the minimum that is recommended. Both NIST (SP 800-78) and RSA (http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2004) recommend at least 1024 now. Also, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a 768-bit key in a certificate - all I've seen for years now is 1024. spt >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:34 AM >To: ietf-smime@imc.org >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > > > > >>How about for 3851bis: A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key >pairs at a >>minimum key size of 1024 bits. A user agent MUST NOT >generate RSA key >>pairs less than 1024 bits long. > >With these two sentences there is no more room for key sizes >less than 1024 bits. >768 bits is still fully adequate, even we can recommend to use >1024 bits as the minimum. > >Denis > >>I'll move the 768 back to 512 as suggested by Simon. >> >>spt >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Russ Housley [mailto:housley@vigilsec.com] >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:16 AM >>>To: Turner, Sean P. >>>Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org >>>Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >>> >>>Sean: >>> >>>Given the proposed text, it sounds like you really want to say that >>>key sizes from 768 to 2048 bits must be supported, even >though you are >>>recommending 1024 bits as the minimum for newly generated keys. >>> >>>Russ >>> >>>At 07:17 AM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >>> >>>>I should have been clearer. >>>> >>>>RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): >>>> >>>> Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >>>> >>>>Suggesting it be replaced with: >>>> >>>> Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >>>> >>>>Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): >>>> >>>> If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then the >>>> S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or function >>>> SHOULD generate RSA key pairs using the following >>>guidelines. A user >>>> agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 >>>> was 768 ^^^^ >bits. A user >>>> agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 bits long. >>>> Creating keys longer than >>>> ^^^ was 512 >>>> 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to not be >>>> able to verify signatures, but gives better security and is >>>therefore >>>> valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify >>>signatures with >>>> keys of any size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United >>>> ^^^ was 512 >>>> States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get more >>>> advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are >considered >>>> by many to be cryptographically insecure. Implementers SHOULD be >>>> aware that multiple >>>> (active) key pairs can be associated with a single >>>individual. For >>>> example, one key pair can be used to support >>>confidentiality, while a >>>> different key pair can be used for authentication. >>>> >>>>Thoughts? >>>> >>>>spt >>>> >>>> >-----Original Message----- >>>> >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >>>> >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >>>> >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >>>> >To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >>>> >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >>>> >> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >>>> >clear to me >>>> >>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >>>> >key sizes are MAY. >>>> >>I'm suggesting the following text: >>>> >> >>>> >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. >>>Keys sizes >>>> >>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. >>>> > >>>> >Sure. >>>> > >>>> >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >>>> >smaller than 1024? >>>> > >>>> >MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? >>>> > >>> >> >> > >Regards, > >Denis Pinkas > > > From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 20 11:06:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B491528CA2B for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:06:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.25 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.25 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OSEENQ3Xztby for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:06:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC70128C94B for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:04:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KIl7Rd038103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:47:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KIl7eX038102; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:47:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [8.8.40.152]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KIl6WG038094 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:47:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Message-Id: <200802201847.m1KIl6WG038094@balder-227.proper.com> Received: (qmail 19906 invoked by uid 0); 20 Feb 2008 18:46:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (72.83.129.167) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 18:46:58 -0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:38:54 -0500 To: "Turner, Sean P." , "'Denis Pinkas'" , From: Russ Housley Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 In-Reply-To: <024b01c873e3$87acfa50$0301a8c0@Wylie> References: <024b01c873e3$87acfa50$0301a8c0@Wylie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: The point is that we should be able to validate a signature that was generated by a key pair that was generated under the previous recommendations. Russ At 12:10 PM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >As I dig around, I find that 1024 is pretty much the minimum that is >recommended. Both NIST (SP 800-78) and RSA >(http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2004) recommend at least 1024 now. >Also, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a 768-bit key in a certificate - >all I've seen for years now is 1024. > >spt > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org > >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas > >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:34 AM > >To: ietf-smime@imc.org > >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > > > > > > > > > >>How about for 3851bis: A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key > >pairs at a > >>minimum key size of 1024 bits. A user agent MUST NOT > >generate RSA key > >>pairs less than 1024 bits long. > > > >With these two sentences there is no more room for key sizes > >less than 1024 bits. > >768 bits is still fully adequate, even we can recommend to use > >1024 bits as the minimum. > > > >Denis > > > >>I'll move the 768 back to 512 as suggested by Simon. > >> > >>spt > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: Russ Housley [mailto:housley@vigilsec.com] > >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:16 AM > >>>To: Turner, Sean P. > >>>Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org > >>>Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > >>> > >>>Sean: > >>> > >>>Given the proposed text, it sounds like you really want to say that > >>>key sizes from 768 to 2048 bits must be supported, even > >though you are > >>>recommending 1024 bits as the minimum for newly generated keys. > >>> > >>>Russ > >>> > >>>At 07:17 AM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >>> > >>>>I should have been clearer. > >>>> > >>>>RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): > >>>> > >>>> Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >>>> > >>>>Suggesting it be replaced with: > >>>> > >>>> Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >>>> > >>>>Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): > >>>> > >>>> If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then the > >>>> S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or function > >>>> SHOULD generate RSA key pairs using the following > >>>guidelines. A user > >>>> agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 > >>>> was 768 ^^^^ > >bits. A user > >>>> agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 bits long. > >>>> Creating keys longer than > >>>> ^^^ was 512 > >>>> 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to not be > >>>> able to verify signatures, but gives better security and is > >>>therefore > >>>> valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify > >>>signatures with > >>>> keys of any size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United > >>>> ^^^ was 512 > >>>> States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get more > >>>> advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are > >considered > >>>> by many to be cryptographically insecure. Implementers SHOULD be > >>>> aware that multiple > >>>> (active) key pairs can be associated with a single > >>>individual. For > >>>> example, one key pair can be used to support > >>>confidentiality, while a > >>>> different key pair can be used for authentication. > >>>> > >>>>Thoughts? > >>>> > >>>>spt > >>>> > >>>> >-----Original Message----- > >>>> >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org > >>>> >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman > >>>> >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM > >>>> >To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org > >>>> >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> >At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >>>> >> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty > >>>> >clear to me > >>>> >>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other > >>>> >key sizes are MAY. > >>>> >>I'm suggesting the following text: > >>>> >> > >>>> >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. > >>>Keys sizes > >>>> >>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. > >>>> > > >>>> >Sure. > >>>> > > >>>> >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes > >>>> >smaller than 1024? > >>>> > > >>>> >MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? > >>>> > > >>> > >> > >> > > > >Regards, > > > >Denis Pinkas > > > > > > From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 21 04:16:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 635D628C439 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:16:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.397, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0PB-bRVrAXOX for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:16:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44DCF3A6D2D for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:16:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1LBwpg3032316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:58:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1LBwpFA032315; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:58:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com (scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com [65.242.48.253]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1LBwlMC032303 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:58:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CWallace@cygnacom.com) Received: (qmail 26009 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2008 11:51:13 -0000 Received: from CWallace@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4;21 Feb 2008 11:51:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygexch1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.8) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2008 11:51:13 -0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:58:46 -0500 Message-ID: in-reply-to: <200802201847.m1KIl6WG038094@balder-227.proper.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Thread-Index: Achz8lIAurPIgAqFQnmQA66joCW9dQAjntrg References: <024b01c873e3$87acfa50$0301a8c0@Wylie> <200802201847.m1KIl6WG038094@balder-227.proper.com> From: "Carl Wallace" To: "Russ Housley" , "Turner, Sean P." , "Denis Pinkas" , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id m1LBwmMC032307 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Maybe the DSSC draft could be of use here: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ltans-dssc-01. -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Russ Housley Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:39 PM To: Turner, Sean P.; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 The point is that we should be able to validate a signature that was generated by a key pair that was generated under the previous recommendations. Russ At 12:10 PM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >As I dig around, I find that 1024 is pretty much the minimum that is >recommended. Both NIST (SP 800-78) and RSA >(http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2004) recommend at least 1024 now. >Also, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a 768-bit key in a >certificate - all I've seen for years now is 1024. > >spt > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org > >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas > >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:34 AM > >To: ietf-smime@imc.org > >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > > > > > > > > > >>How about for 3851bis: A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key > >pairs at a > >>minimum key size of 1024 bits. A user agent MUST NOT > >generate RSA key > >>pairs less than 1024 bits long. > > > >With these two sentences there is no more room for key sizes less > >than 1024 bits. > >768 bits is still fully adequate, even we can recommend to use > >1024 bits as the minimum. > > > >Denis > > > >>I'll move the 768 back to 512 as suggested by Simon. > >> > >>spt > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: Russ Housley [mailto:housley@vigilsec.com] > >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:16 AM > >>>To: Turner, Sean P. > >>>Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org > >>>Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > >>> > >>>Sean: > >>> > >>>Given the proposed text, it sounds like you really want to say that > >>>key sizes from 768 to 2048 bits must be supported, even > >though you are > >>>recommending 1024 bits as the minimum for newly generated keys. > >>> > >>>Russ > >>> > >>>At 07:17 AM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >>> > >>>>I should have been clearer. > >>>> > >>>>RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): > >>>> > >>>> Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >>>> > >>>>Suggesting it be replaced with: > >>>> > >>>> Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >>>> > >>>>Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): > >>>> > >>>> If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then the > >>>> S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or function > >>>> SHOULD generate RSA key pairs using the following > >>>guidelines. A user > >>>> agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 > >>>> was 768 ^^^^ > >bits. A user > >>>> agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 bits long. > >>>> Creating keys longer than > >>>> ^^^ was 512 > >>>> 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to not > >>>> be able to verify signatures, but gives better security and is > >>>therefore > >>>> valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify > >>>signatures with > >>>> keys of any size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United > >>>> ^^^ was 512 > >>>> States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get more > >>>> advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are > >considered > >>>> by many to be cryptographically insecure. Implementers SHOULD be > >>>> aware that multiple > >>>> (active) key pairs can be associated with a single > >>>individual. For > >>>> example, one key pair can be used to support > >>>confidentiality, while a > >>>> different key pair can be used for authentication. > >>>> > >>>>Thoughts? > >>>> > >>>>spt > >>>> > >>>> >-----Original Message----- > >>>> >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org > >>>> >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman > >>>> >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM > >>>> >To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org > >>>> >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> >At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >>>> >> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty > >>>> >clear to me > >>>> >>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other > >>>> >key sizes are MAY. > >>>> >>I'm suggesting the following text: > >>>> >> > >>>> >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. > >>>Keys sizes > >>>> >>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. > >>>> > > >>>> >Sure. > >>>> > > >>>> >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes > >>>> >smaller than 1024? > >>>> > > >>>> >MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? > >>>> > > >>> > >> > >> > > > >Regards, > > > >Denis Pinkas > > > > > > From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Thu Feb 21 12:30:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6828F28C528 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:30:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.276 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.276 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.230, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LqyyhHtc5kwl for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:29:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EAA028C293 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:29:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1LKFA2N088628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:15:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1LKFAU7088626; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:15:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [64.170.98.32]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1LKFA8q088614 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:15:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from root@core3.amsl.com) Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 14A7C28CB46; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:15:01 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-3850bis-01.txt Message-Id: <20080221201502.14A7C28CB46@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:15:02 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the S/MIME Mail Security Working Group of the IETF. Title : Secure/Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (S/MIME) Version 3.2 Certificate Handling Author(s) : S. Turner, B. Ramsdell Filename : draft-ietf-smime-3850bis-01.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2008-2-21 This document specifies conventions for X.509 certificate usage by Secure/Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (S/MIME) agents. S/MIME provides a method to send and receive secure MIME messages, and certificates are an integral part of S/MIME agent processing. S/MIME agents validate certificates as described in RFC 3280bis, the Internet X.509 Public Key Infrastructure Certificate and CRL Profile. S/MIME agents must meet the certificate processing requirements in this document as well as those in RFC 3280bis. This document obsoletes RFC 3850. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-3850bis-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-smime-3850bis-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 22 14:46:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC0F63A6D4A for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:46:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.115 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.115 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.069, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1tqOrDUS--jl for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:46:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB6EA3A6D4C for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:46:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1MMSe9e038061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:28:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1MMSejR038060; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:28:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [64.170.98.32]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1MMSd1N038052 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:28:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wwwrun@core3.amsl.com) Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id 6465A3A6D39; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:28:43 -0800 (PST) X-idtracker: yes To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-multisig (Multiple Signatures in S/MIME) to Proposed Standard Reply-to: ietf@ietf.org CC: Message-Id: <20080222222843.6465A3A6D39@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:28:43 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: The IESG has received a request from the S/MIME Mail Security WG (smime) to consider the following document: - 'Multiple Signatures in S/MIME ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2008-03-07. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-multisig-04.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=15544&rfc_flag=0 From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 22 15:21:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D9B828CB8A for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:21:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.323 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.323 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.277, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FD1CO3xw4N8J for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:21:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8B6628C348 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:16:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1MMxwMw040565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:59:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1MMxw6w040564; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:59:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [64.170.98.32]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1MMxwZY040558 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:59:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from root@core3.amsl.com) Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id AEC783A6D33; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:00:01 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-rfc3278-update-00.txt Message-Id: <20080222230001.AEC783A6D33@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:00:01 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the S/MIME Mail Security Working Group of the IETF. Title : Update to Use of Elliptic Curve Cryptography (ECC) Algorithms in Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) Author(s) : S. Turner Filename : draft-ietf-smime-rfc3278-update-00.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2008-2-12 RFC 3278 describes how to use Elliptic Curve Cryptography (ECC) public-key algorithms in the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS). This document updates RFC 3278 to add support for the SHA2 family of hash algorithms. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-rfc3278-update-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-smime-rfc3278-update-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 22 15:49:19 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16B428C309 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:49:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.114 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.114 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.068, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0vH8qVWhDieJ for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:49:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E5973A6DA4 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:47:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1MMTPLG038124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:29:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1MMTPUX038123; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:29:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [64.170.98.32]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1MMTPgI038117 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:29:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wwwrun@core3.amsl.com) Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id 71A9F28C58A; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:29:21 -0800 (PST) X-idtracker: yes To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-sha2 (Using SHA2 Algorithms with Cryptographic Message Syntax) to Proposed Standard Reply-to: ietf@ietf.org CC: Message-Id: <20080222222921.71A9F28C58A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:29:21 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: The IESG has received a request from the S/MIME Mail Security WG (smime) to consider the following document: - 'Using SHA2 Algorithms with Cryptographic Message Syntax ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2008-03-07. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-sha2-03.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=16033&rfc_flag=0 From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Wed Feb 27 06:39:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB84728C2E4 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:39:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.21 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.069, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RCVD_BAD_ID=2.837] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id afKWacHb2BhD for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:39:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 293B028C465 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 06:39:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1REBqpt087354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:11:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1REBqlC087353; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:11:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1REBnwh087341 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:11:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09766; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:21:02 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2008022714585498:260710 ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:58:54 +0100 Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:58:51 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf@ietf.org" Cc: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-sha2 (Using SHA2 Algorithms withCryptographic Message Syntax) to Proposed Standard X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 27/02/2008 14:58:54, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 27/02/2008 15:11:46, Serialize complete at 27/02/2008 15:11:46 Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: There are obvious errors (intentionnaly left by the editor in order to know how many people read the document). On page 1: The message digest algorithms are defined in and [SHS]. ^^^ Also in section 2.4: 2.4. SHA-512 The SHA-256 message digest algorithm is defined in [SHS]. whereas it should be: 2.4. SHA-512 The SHA-512 message digest algorithm is defined in [SHS]. It would be valuable to explain why DSA cannot be used with SHA-384 and SHA-512. In addition, it is not acceptable to reference in the *normative* references "work in progess", i.e.[ECCADD]. The same applies for [SHS]. The text states: NOTE [to be removed upon publication as an RFC]: NIST has not yet finalized FIPS 186-3 and there is a chance that the draft may be changed. This may result in differences between what is documented in the current version of this document and what is in the FIPS. It is intended to synchronize the final version of this draft with the FIPS before publication as an RFC. There is a more substantive comment on the first paragraph of section 1. The text states: If an implementation chooses to support one of the algorithms discussed in this document, then the implementation MUST do so as described in this document. I believe the text should be: If an implementation chooses to support one of the algorithms discussed in this document, then the implementation MUST do so as described in [SHS]. A small discussion in the security considerations section on the advantages (in particular in terms of performances versus security) of using one or another function from the SHA2 family would be helpful. While I welcome this draft, everybody should take into consideration that, if the SHA2 family happens to be broken then we will be at risk. This should be mentioned into the security considerations section. The NESSIE program has evaluated with succces the WHIRLPOOL algorithm. WHIRLPOOL would be a good substitute to SHA-512 and I would encourage that "someone" drafts an RFC to specify OIDs for using WHIRLPOOL with CMS. Denis >The IESG has received a request from the S/MIME Mail Security WG (smime) >to consider the following document: > >- 'Using SHA2 Algorithms with Cryptographic Message Syntax ' > as a Proposed Standard > >The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits >final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the >ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2008-03-07. Exceptionally, >comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please >retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. > >The file can be obtained via >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-sha2-03.txt > > >IESG discussion can be tracked via >https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=16033&rfc_flag=0 > > Regards, Denis Pinkas From rosa2havivah@fujitsu.com Thu Feb 28 06:58:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0CD028C62E for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:58:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.029 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.029 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DOS_OE_TO_MX=2.75, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, GB_ROLEX=5, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, LOW_PRICE=0.001, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_SPEC_ROLEX=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wvq3+EAQRTQm for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:58:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from adsl-ull-92-121.49-151.net24.it (adsl-ull-92-121.49-151.net24.it [151.49.121.92]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82E173A6EA3 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:58:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000601c87a1a$07e133ea$1ab7e59f@fmwjx> From: "garrard julius" To: "Melvin Hagan" Subject: perfectly crafted exclusive watches rolex Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:10:48 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Discover Our Range of Luxury Rolex Watches for Men and Women... Incredibly Low Prices! http://swamifeeuta.com/ From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 29 13:32:13 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86ABF28C714 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:32:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.254 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.254 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.792, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IyNmKs4DBoSj for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:32:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED5E328C5E0 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:32:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1TLEQga097517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:14:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1TLEQt8097516; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:14:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp110.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp110.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.53.9]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1TLEMvi097503 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:14:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 97739 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2008 21:14:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@71.191.7.127 with login) by smtp110.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Feb 2008 21:14:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: QZqip0IVM1khfw6Ui5wt8gIBQEguRmuyDrOliajrntinQUVhKY0.WKh2SrKpvXdclaz3Atg.bwdquAHeHcPMvjYDEzB_nTtb4fKCqyG87gio5KPLG0Y- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Turner, Sean P." To: "'Denis Pinkas'" , Cc: References: Subject: RE: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-sha2 (Using SHA2 Algorithms withCryptographic Message Syntax) to Proposed Standard Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:06:59 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <007a01c87b17$066d26a0$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 thread-index: Ach5TooEtcd6Cv5zQdyGm88wvxDrAwBxSU6g In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Denis, Thanks for taking the time to review this ID. Responses are inline. spt >-----Original Message----- > >There are obvious errors (intentionnaly left by the editor in >order to know how many people read the document). If I was going to leave something intentionally in the document to see if you'd read it, then it would have been a lot better ... something like (note this isn't an actual offer) "if you mention this sentence to me I'll buy you a beer". This ID is way too short to sneak in this kind of phrase. >On page 1: > >The message digest algorithms are defined in and [SHS]. > ^^^ Also in section 2.4: Will remove the "and". >2.4. SHA-512 > > The SHA-256 message digest algorithm is defined in [SHS]. > >whereas it should be: > >2.4. SHA-512 > > The SHA-512 message digest algorithm is defined in [SHS]. Will replace SHA-256 with SHA-512 in 2.4. >It would be valuable to explain why DSA cannot be used with >SHA-384 and SHA-512. I'll add some text. >In addition, it is not acceptable to reference in the >*normative* references "work in progess", i.e.[ECCADD]. I'm pretty sure this is done all the time. There are 17 IDs in the RFC editor queue with works-in-progress in normative references. >The same applies for [SHS]. The text states: > > NOTE [to be removed upon publication as an RFC]: NIST has not yet > finalized FIPS 186-3 and there is a chance that the draft may be > changed. This may result in differences between what is documented > in the current version of this document and what is in the >FIPS. It > is intended to synchronize the final version of this draft with the > FIPS before publication as an RFC. The FIPS PUB 186-3 part that this ID needs has very little chance of changing. The WG wanted this note to be safe. >There is a more substantive comment on the first paragraph of >section 1. >The text states: > > If an implementation chooses to support one of the algorithms > discussed in this document, then the implementation MUST do so as > described in this document. > >I believe the text should be: > > If an implementation chooses to support one of the algorithms > discussed in this document, then the implementation MUST do so as > described in [SHS]. The algorithms aren't defined in this document only the OIDs and where they go in CMS ... so I still think it's actually "as described in this document". But, Spencer suggests removing the sentences because they're not needed and I tend to agree with him. >A small discussion in the security considerations section on >the advantages (in particular in terms of performances versus >security) of using one or another function from the SHA2 >family would be helpful. I'll see if I can't get something from NIST (or at least point to it). >While I welcome this draft, everybody should take into >consideration that, if the SHA2 family happens to be broken >then we will be at risk. >This should be mentioned into the security considerations section. If an algorithm is cracked then isn't it obvious that we're in trouble? No other algorithm document I could find says something like this so I'm inclined to not include this in the security considerations section. >The NESSIE program has evaluated with succces the WHIRLPOOL algorithm. >WHIRLPOOL would be a good substitute to SHA-512 and I would >encourage that "someone" drafts an RFC to specify OIDs for >using WHIRLPOOL with CMS. > >Denis > >>The IESG has received a request from the S/MIME Mail Security WG >>(smime) to consider the following document: >> >>- 'Using SHA2 Algorithms with Cryptographic Message Syntax ' >> as a Proposed Standard >> >>The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits >>final comments on this action. Please send substantive >comments to the >>ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2008-03-07. Exceptionally, >comments may >>be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the >>beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. >> >>The file can be obtained via >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-sha2-03.txt >> >> >>IESG discussion can be tracked via >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=vie w_id&dTag >>=16033&rfc_flag=0 >> >> > >Regards, > >Denis Pinkas > > > From owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Fri Feb 29 14:43:23 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-smime-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFF963A6F2B for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:43:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D6aRGB9O83F4 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:43:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (Balder-227.Proper.COM [192.245.12.227]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8BA73A6F42 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:43:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1TMUhre003460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:30:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1TMUhGc003459; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:30:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from [10.20.30.162] (adsl-66-125-125-65.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [66.125.125.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1TMU452003411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:30:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from phoffman@imc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <007a01c87b17$066d26a0$0301a8c0@Wylie> References: <007a01c87b17$066d26a0$0301a8c0@Wylie> Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:30:02 -0800 To: "Turner, Sean P." , "'Denis Pinkas'" , From: Paul Hoffman Subject: RE: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-sha2 (Using SHA2 Algorithms withCryptographic Message Syntax) to Proposed Standard Cc: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: At 4:06 PM -0500 2/29/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >In addition, it is not acceptable to reference in the >>*normative* references "work in progess", i.e.[ECCADD]. > >I'm pretty sure this is done all the time. There are 17 IDs in the RFC >editor queue with works-in-progress in normative references. Sean is correct. This will cause the draft to be stuck in the RFC Editor publication queue until the other document becomes an RFC, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with this in a last-call draft. > >The same applies for [SHS]. The text states: >> >> NOTE [to be removed upon publication as an RFC]: NIST has not yet >> finalized FIPS 186-3 and there is a chance that the draft may be >> changed. This may result in differences between what is documented >> in the current version of this document and what is in the >>FIPS. It >> is intended to synchronize the final version of this draft with the >> FIPS before publication as an RFC. > >The FIPS PUB 186-3 part that this ID needs has very little chance of >changing. The WG wanted this note to be safe. Again, Sean is right. It is quite common to have comments like "This section to be removed upon publication" in documents going into the RFC Editor queue. > >There is a more substantive comment on the first paragraph of >>section 1. >>The text states: >> >> If an implementation chooses to support one of the algorithms >> discussed in this document, then the implementation MUST do so as >> described in this document. >> >>I believe the text should be: >> >> If an implementation chooses to support one of the algorithms >> discussed in this document, then the implementation MUST do so as >> described in [SHS]. > >The algorithms aren't defined in this document only the OIDs and where they >go in CMS ... so I still think it's actually "as described in this >document". But, Spencer suggests removing the sentences because they're not >needed and I tend to agree with him. Spencer wins on this one. The sentence doesn't make much sense in a standards-track document. > >A small discussion in the security considerations section on >>the advantages (in particular in terms of performances versus >>security) of using one or another function from the SHA2 >>family would be helpful. > >I'll see if I can't get something from NIST (or at least point to it). I'll disagree with this. These are not security considerations; they are performance considerations. And pretty obvious ones at that. > >While I welcome this draft, everybody should take into >>consideration that, if the SHA2 family happens to be broken >>then we will be at risk. >>This should be mentioned into the security considerations section. > >If an algorithm is cracked then isn't it obvious that we're in trouble? No >other algorithm document I could find says something like this so I'm >inclined to not include this in the security considerations section. ... or anywhere else. If any algorithm (hash, encryption, signing, ...) is broken, it is broken. Sean's right here. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1TMUhre003460 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:30:44 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1TMUhGc003459; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:30:43 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from [10.20.30.162] (adsl-66-125-125-65.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [66.125.125.65]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1TMU452003411 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:30:05 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from phoffman@imc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <007a01c87b17$066d26a0$0301a8c0@Wylie> References: <007a01c87b17$066d26a0$0301a8c0@Wylie> Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:30:02 -0800 To: "Turner, Sean P." , "'Denis Pinkas'" , From: Paul Hoffman Subject: RE: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-sha2 (Using SHA2 Algorithms withCryptographic Message Syntax) to Proposed Standard Cc: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: At 4:06 PM -0500 2/29/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >In addition, it is not acceptable to reference in the >>*normative* references "work in progess", i.e.[ECCADD]. > >I'm pretty sure this is done all the time. There are 17 IDs in the RFC >editor queue with works-in-progress in normative references. Sean is correct. This will cause the draft to be stuck in the RFC Editor publication queue until the other document becomes an RFC, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with this in a last-call draft. > >The same applies for [SHS]. The text states: >> >> NOTE [to be removed upon publication as an RFC]: NIST has not yet >> finalized FIPS 186-3 and there is a chance that the draft may be >> changed. This may result in differences between what is documented >> in the current version of this document and what is in the >>FIPS. It >> is intended to synchronize the final version of this draft with the >> FIPS before publication as an RFC. > >The FIPS PUB 186-3 part that this ID needs has very little chance of >changing. The WG wanted this note to be safe. Again, Sean is right. It is quite common to have comments like "This section to be removed upon publication" in documents going into the RFC Editor queue. > >There is a more substantive comment on the first paragraph of >>section 1. >>The text states: >> >> If an implementation chooses to support one of the algorithms >> discussed in this document, then the implementation MUST do so as >> described in this document. >> >>I believe the text should be: >> >> If an implementation chooses to support one of the algorithms >> discussed in this document, then the implementation MUST do so as >> described in [SHS]. > >The algorithms aren't defined in this document only the OIDs and where they >go in CMS ... so I still think it's actually "as described in this >document". But, Spencer suggests removing the sentences because they're not >needed and I tend to agree with him. Spencer wins on this one. The sentence doesn't make much sense in a standards-track document. > >A small discussion in the security considerations section on >>the advantages (in particular in terms of performances versus >>security) of using one or another function from the SHA2 >>family would be helpful. > >I'll see if I can't get something from NIST (or at least point to it). I'll disagree with this. These are not security considerations; they are performance considerations. And pretty obvious ones at that. > >While I welcome this draft, everybody should take into >>consideration that, if the SHA2 family happens to be broken >>then we will be at risk. >>This should be mentioned into the security considerations section. > >If an algorithm is cracked then isn't it obvious that we're in trouble? No >other algorithm document I could find says something like this so I'm >inclined to not include this in the security considerations section. ... or anywhere else. If any algorithm (hash, encryption, signing, ...) is broken, it is broken. Sean's right here. Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1TLEQga097517 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:14:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1TLEQt8097516; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:14:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp110.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp110.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.53.9]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1TLEMvi097503 for ; Fri, 29 Feb 2008 14:14:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 97739 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2008 21:14:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@71.191.7.127 with login) by smtp110.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Feb 2008 21:14:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: QZqip0IVM1khfw6Ui5wt8gIBQEguRmuyDrOliajrntinQUVhKY0.WKh2SrKpvXdclaz3Atg.bwdquAHeHcPMvjYDEzB_nTtb4fKCqyG87gio5KPLG0Y- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Turner, Sean P." To: "'Denis Pinkas'" , Cc: References: Subject: RE: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-sha2 (Using SHA2 Algorithms withCryptographic Message Syntax) to Proposed Standard Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:06:59 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <007a01c87b17$066d26a0$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 thread-index: Ach5TooEtcd6Cv5zQdyGm88wvxDrAwBxSU6g In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Denis, Thanks for taking the time to review this ID. Responses are inline. spt >-----Original Message----- > >There are obvious errors (intentionnaly left by the editor in >order to know how many people read the document). If I was going to leave something intentionally in the document to see if you'd read it, then it would have been a lot better ... something like (note this isn't an actual offer) "if you mention this sentence to me I'll buy you a beer". This ID is way too short to sneak in this kind of phrase. >On page 1: > >The message digest algorithms are defined in and [SHS]. > ^^^ Also in section 2.4: Will remove the "and". >2.4. SHA-512 > > The SHA-256 message digest algorithm is defined in [SHS]. > >whereas it should be: > >2.4. SHA-512 > > The SHA-512 message digest algorithm is defined in [SHS]. Will replace SHA-256 with SHA-512 in 2.4. >It would be valuable to explain why DSA cannot be used with >SHA-384 and SHA-512. I'll add some text. >In addition, it is not acceptable to reference in the >*normative* references "work in progess", i.e.[ECCADD]. I'm pretty sure this is done all the time. There are 17 IDs in the RFC editor queue with works-in-progress in normative references. >The same applies for [SHS]. The text states: > > NOTE [to be removed upon publication as an RFC]: NIST has not yet > finalized FIPS 186-3 and there is a chance that the draft may be > changed. This may result in differences between what is documented > in the current version of this document and what is in the >FIPS. It > is intended to synchronize the final version of this draft with the > FIPS before publication as an RFC. The FIPS PUB 186-3 part that this ID needs has very little chance of changing. The WG wanted this note to be safe. >There is a more substantive comment on the first paragraph of >section 1. >The text states: > > If an implementation chooses to support one of the algorithms > discussed in this document, then the implementation MUST do so as > described in this document. > >I believe the text should be: > > If an implementation chooses to support one of the algorithms > discussed in this document, then the implementation MUST do so as > described in [SHS]. The algorithms aren't defined in this document only the OIDs and where they go in CMS ... so I still think it's actually "as described in this document". But, Spencer suggests removing the sentences because they're not needed and I tend to agree with him. >A small discussion in the security considerations section on >the advantages (in particular in terms of performances versus >security) of using one or another function from the SHA2 >family would be helpful. I'll see if I can't get something from NIST (or at least point to it). >While I welcome this draft, everybody should take into >consideration that, if the SHA2 family happens to be broken >then we will be at risk. >This should be mentioned into the security considerations section. If an algorithm is cracked then isn't it obvious that we're in trouble? No other algorithm document I could find says something like this so I'm inclined to not include this in the security considerations section. >The NESSIE program has evaluated with succces the WHIRLPOOL algorithm. >WHIRLPOOL would be a good substitute to SHA-512 and I would >encourage that "someone" drafts an RFC to specify OIDs for >using WHIRLPOOL with CMS. > >Denis > >>The IESG has received a request from the S/MIME Mail Security WG >>(smime) to consider the following document: >> >>- 'Using SHA2 Algorithms with Cryptographic Message Syntax ' >> as a Proposed Standard >> >>The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits >>final comments on this action. Please send substantive >comments to the >>ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2008-03-07. Exceptionally, >comments may >>be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the >>beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. >> >>The file can be obtained via >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-sha2-03.txt >> >> >>IESG discussion can be tracked via >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=vie w_id&dTag >>=16033&rfc_flag=0 >> >> > >Regards, > >Denis Pinkas > > > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1REBqpt087354 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:11:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1REBqlC087353; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:11:52 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1REBnwh087341 for ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:11:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09766; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:21:02 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2008022714585498:260710 ; Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:58:54 +0100 Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:58:51 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf@ietf.org" Cc: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-sha2 (Using SHA2 Algorithms withCryptographic Message Syntax) to Proposed Standard X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 27/02/2008 14:58:54, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 27/02/2008 15:11:46, Serialize complete at 27/02/2008 15:11:46 Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: There are obvious errors (intentionnaly left by the editor in order to know how many people read the document). On page 1: The message digest algorithms are defined in and [SHS]. ^^^ Also in section 2.4: 2.4. SHA-512 The SHA-256 message digest algorithm is defined in [SHS]. whereas it should be: 2.4. SHA-512 The SHA-512 message digest algorithm is defined in [SHS]. It would be valuable to explain why DSA cannot be used with SHA-384 and SHA-512. In addition, it is not acceptable to reference in the *normative* references "work in progess", i.e.[ECCADD]. The same applies for [SHS]. The text states: NOTE [to be removed upon publication as an RFC]: NIST has not yet finalized FIPS 186-3 and there is a chance that the draft may be changed. This may result in differences between what is documented in the current version of this document and what is in the FIPS. It is intended to synchronize the final version of this draft with the FIPS before publication as an RFC. There is a more substantive comment on the first paragraph of section 1. The text states: If an implementation chooses to support one of the algorithms discussed in this document, then the implementation MUST do so as described in this document. I believe the text should be: If an implementation chooses to support one of the algorithms discussed in this document, then the implementation MUST do so as described in [SHS]. A small discussion in the security considerations section on the advantages (in particular in terms of performances versus security) of using one or another function from the SHA2 family would be helpful. While I welcome this draft, everybody should take into consideration that, if the SHA2 family happens to be broken then we will be at risk. This should be mentioned into the security considerations section. The NESSIE program has evaluated with succces the WHIRLPOOL algorithm. WHIRLPOOL would be a good substitute to SHA-512 and I would encourage that "someone" drafts an RFC to specify OIDs for using WHIRLPOOL with CMS. Denis >The IESG has received a request from the S/MIME Mail Security WG (smime) >to consider the following document: > >- 'Using SHA2 Algorithms with Cryptographic Message Syntax ' > as a Proposed Standard > >The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits >final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the >ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2008-03-07. Exceptionally, >comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please >retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. > >The file can be obtained via >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-sha2-03.txt > > >IESG discussion can be tracked via >https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=16033&rfc_flag=0 > > Regards, Denis Pinkas Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1MMxwMw040565 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:59:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1MMxw6w040564; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:59:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [64.170.98.32]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1MMxwZY040558 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:59:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from root@core3.amsl.com) Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id AEC783A6D33; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:00:01 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-rfc3278-update-00.txt Message-Id: <20080222230001.AEC783A6D33@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:00:01 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the S/MIME Mail Security Working Group of the IETF. Title : Update to Use of Elliptic Curve Cryptography (ECC) Algorithms in Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) Author(s) : S. Turner Filename : draft-ietf-smime-rfc3278-update-00.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2008-2-12 RFC 3278 describes how to use Elliptic Curve Cryptography (ECC) public-key algorithms in the Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS). This document updates RFC 3278 to add support for the SHA2 family of hash algorithms. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-rfc3278-update-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-smime-rfc3278-update-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt --NextPart-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1MMTPLG038124 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:29:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1MMTPUX038123; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:29:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [64.170.98.32]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1MMTPgI038117 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:29:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wwwrun@core3.amsl.com) Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id 71A9F28C58A; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:29:21 -0800 (PST) X-idtracker: yes To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-sha2 (Using SHA2 Algorithms with Cryptographic Message Syntax) to Proposed Standard Reply-to: ietf@ietf.org CC: Message-Id: <20080222222921.71A9F28C58A@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:29:21 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: The IESG has received a request from the S/MIME Mail Security WG (smime) to consider the following document: - 'Using SHA2 Algorithms with Cryptographic Message Syntax ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2008-03-07. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-sha2-03.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=16033&rfc_flag=0 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1MMSe9e038061 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:28:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1MMSejR038060; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:28:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [64.170.98.32]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1MMSd1N038052 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:28:40 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from wwwrun@core3.amsl.com) Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 30) id 6465A3A6D39; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:28:43 -0800 (PST) X-idtracker: yes To: IETF-Announce From: The IESG Subject: Last Call: draft-ietf-smime-multisig (Multiple Signatures in S/MIME) to Proposed Standard Reply-to: ietf@ietf.org CC: Message-Id: <20080222222843.6465A3A6D39@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:28:43 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: The IESG has received a request from the S/MIME Mail Security WG (smime) to consider the following document: - 'Multiple Signatures in S/MIME ' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2008-03-07. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. The file can be obtained via http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-multisig-04.txt IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=15544&rfc_flag=0 Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1LKFA2N088628 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:15:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1LKFAU7088626; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:15:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from mail.ietf.org (mail.ietf.org [64.170.98.32]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1LKFA8q088614 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:15:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from root@core3.amsl.com) Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 14A7C28CB46; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:15:01 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-smime-3850bis-01.txt Message-Id: <20080221201502.14A7C28CB46@core3.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:15:02 -0800 (PST) Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the S/MIME Mail Security Working Group of the IETF. Title : Secure/Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (S/MIME) Version 3.2 Certificate Handling Author(s) : S. Turner, B. Ramsdell Filename : draft-ietf-smime-3850bis-01.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2008-2-21 This document specifies conventions for X.509 certificate usage by Secure/Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions (S/MIME) agents. S/MIME provides a method to send and receive secure MIME messages, and certificates are an integral part of S/MIME agent processing. S/MIME agents validate certificates as described in RFC 3280bis, the Internet X.509 Public Key Infrastructure Certificate and CRL Profile. S/MIME agents must meet the certificate processing requirements in this document as well as those in RFC 3280bis. This document obsoletes RFC 3850. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-smime-3850bis-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-smime-3850bis-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt --NextPart-- Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1LBwpg3032316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:58:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1LBwpFA032315; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:58:51 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com (scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com [65.242.48.253]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1LBwlMC032303 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:58:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from CWallace@cygnacom.com) Received: (qmail 26009 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2008 11:51:13 -0000 Received: from CWallace@cygnacom.com by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with EntrustECS-Server-7.4;21 Feb 2008 11:51:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scygexch1.cygnacom.com) (10.60.50.8) by scygmxsecs1.cygnacom.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2008 11:51:13 -0000 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:58:46 -0500 Message-ID: in-reply-to: <200802201847.m1KIl6WG038094@balder-227.proper.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Thread-Index: Achz8lIAurPIgAqFQnmQA66joCW9dQAjntrg References: <024b01c873e3$87acfa50$0301a8c0@Wylie> <200802201847.m1KIl6WG038094@balder-227.proper.com> From: "Carl Wallace" To: "Russ Housley" , "Turner, Sean P." , "Denis Pinkas" , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by balder-227.proper.com id m1LBwmMC032307 Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Maybe the DSSC draft could be of use here: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ltans-dssc-01. -----Original Message----- From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org [mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Russ Housley Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 1:39 PM To: Turner, Sean P.; 'Denis Pinkas'; ietf-smime@imc.org Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 The point is that we should be able to validate a signature that was generated by a key pair that was generated under the previous recommendations. Russ At 12:10 PM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >As I dig around, I find that 1024 is pretty much the minimum that is >recommended. Both NIST (SP 800-78) and RSA >(http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2004) recommend at least 1024 now. >Also, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a 768-bit key in a >certificate - all I've seen for years now is 1024. > >spt > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org > >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas > >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:34 AM > >To: ietf-smime@imc.org > >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > > > > > > > > > >>How about for 3851bis: A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key > >pairs at a > >>minimum key size of 1024 bits. A user agent MUST NOT > >generate RSA key > >>pairs less than 1024 bits long. > > > >With these two sentences there is no more room for key sizes less > >than 1024 bits. > >768 bits is still fully adequate, even we can recommend to use > >1024 bits as the minimum. > > > >Denis > > > >>I'll move the 768 back to 512 as suggested by Simon. > >> > >>spt > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: Russ Housley [mailto:housley@vigilsec.com] > >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:16 AM > >>>To: Turner, Sean P. > >>>Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org > >>>Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > >>> > >>>Sean: > >>> > >>>Given the proposed text, it sounds like you really want to say that > >>>key sizes from 768 to 2048 bits must be supported, even > >though you are > >>>recommending 1024 bits as the minimum for newly generated keys. > >>> > >>>Russ > >>> > >>>At 07:17 AM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >>> > >>>>I should have been clearer. > >>>> > >>>>RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): > >>>> > >>>> Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >>>> > >>>>Suggesting it be replaced with: > >>>> > >>>> Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >>>> > >>>>Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): > >>>> > >>>> If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then the > >>>> S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or function > >>>> SHOULD generate RSA key pairs using the following > >>>guidelines. A user > >>>> agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 > >>>> was 768 ^^^^ > >bits. A user > >>>> agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 bits long. > >>>> Creating keys longer than > >>>> ^^^ was 512 > >>>> 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to not > >>>> be able to verify signatures, but gives better security and is > >>>therefore > >>>> valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify > >>>signatures with > >>>> keys of any size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United > >>>> ^^^ was 512 > >>>> States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get more > >>>> advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are > >considered > >>>> by many to be cryptographically insecure. Implementers SHOULD be > >>>> aware that multiple > >>>> (active) key pairs can be associated with a single > >>>individual. For > >>>> example, one key pair can be used to support > >>>confidentiality, while a > >>>> different key pair can be used for authentication. > >>>> > >>>>Thoughts? > >>>> > >>>>spt > >>>> > >>>> >-----Original Message----- > >>>> >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org > >>>> >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman > >>>> >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM > >>>> >To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org > >>>> >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> >At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >>>> >> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty > >>>> >clear to me > >>>> >>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other > >>>> >key sizes are MAY. > >>>> >>I'm suggesting the following text: > >>>> >> > >>>> >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. > >>>Keys sizes > >>>> >>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. > >>>> > > >>>> >Sure. > >>>> > > >>>> >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes > >>>> >smaller than 1024? > >>>> > > >>>> >MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? > >>>> > > >>> > >> > >> > > > >Regards, > > > >Denis Pinkas > > > > > > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KIl7Rd038103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:47:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KIl7eX038102; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:47:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [8.8.40.152]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KIl6WG038094 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:47:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Message-Id: <200802201847.m1KIl6WG038094@balder-227.proper.com> Received: (qmail 19906 invoked by uid 0); 20 Feb 2008 18:46:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (72.83.129.167) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 18:46:58 -0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:38:54 -0500 To: "Turner, Sean P." , "'Denis Pinkas'" , From: Russ Housley Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 In-Reply-To: <024b01c873e3$87acfa50$0301a8c0@Wylie> References: <024b01c873e3$87acfa50$0301a8c0@Wylie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: The point is that we should be able to validate a signature that was generated by a key pair that was generated under the previous recommendations. Russ At 12:10 PM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >As I dig around, I find that 1024 is pretty much the minimum that is >recommended. Both NIST (SP 800-78) and RSA >(http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2004) recommend at least 1024 now. >Also, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a 768-bit key in a certificate - >all I've seen for years now is 1024. > >spt > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org > >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas > >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:34 AM > >To: ietf-smime@imc.org > >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > > > > > > > > > >>How about for 3851bis: A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key > >pairs at a > >>minimum key size of 1024 bits. A user agent MUST NOT > >generate RSA key > >>pairs less than 1024 bits long. > > > >With these two sentences there is no more room for key sizes > >less than 1024 bits. > >768 bits is still fully adequate, even we can recommend to use > >1024 bits as the minimum. > > > >Denis > > > >>I'll move the 768 back to 512 as suggested by Simon. > >> > >>spt > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: Russ Housley [mailto:housley@vigilsec.com] > >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:16 AM > >>>To: Turner, Sean P. > >>>Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org > >>>Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > >>> > >>>Sean: > >>> > >>>Given the proposed text, it sounds like you really want to say that > >>>key sizes from 768 to 2048 bits must be supported, even > >though you are > >>>recommending 1024 bits as the minimum for newly generated keys. > >>> > >>>Russ > >>> > >>>At 07:17 AM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >>> > >>>>I should have been clearer. > >>>> > >>>>RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): > >>>> > >>>> Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >>>> > >>>>Suggesting it be replaced with: > >>>> > >>>> Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >>>> > >>>>Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): > >>>> > >>>> If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then the > >>>> S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or function > >>>> SHOULD generate RSA key pairs using the following > >>>guidelines. A user > >>>> agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 > >>>> was 768 ^^^^ > >bits. A user > >>>> agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 bits long. > >>>> Creating keys longer than > >>>> ^^^ was 512 > >>>> 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to not be > >>>> able to verify signatures, but gives better security and is > >>>therefore > >>>> valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify > >>>signatures with > >>>> keys of any size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United > >>>> ^^^ was 512 > >>>> States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get more > >>>> advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are > >considered > >>>> by many to be cryptographically insecure. Implementers SHOULD be > >>>> aware that multiple > >>>> (active) key pairs can be associated with a single > >>>individual. For > >>>> example, one key pair can be used to support > >>>confidentiality, while a > >>>> different key pair can be used for authentication. > >>>> > >>>>Thoughts? > >>>> > >>>>spt > >>>> > >>>> >-----Original Message----- > >>>> >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org > >>>> >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman > >>>> >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM > >>>> >To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org > >>>> >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> >At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >>>> >> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty > >>>> >clear to me > >>>> >>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other > >>>> >key sizes are MAY. > >>>> >>I'm suggesting the following text: > >>>> >> > >>>> >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. > >>>Keys sizes > >>>> >>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. > >>>> > > >>>> >Sure. > >>>> > > >>>> >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes > >>>> >smaller than 1024? > >>>> > > >>>> >MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? > >>>> > > >>> > >> > >> > > > >Regards, > > > >Denis Pinkas > > > > > > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KHHm1W027352 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:17:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KHHmQE027351; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:17:48 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.52.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KHHlxf027343 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:17:47 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 67666 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2008 17:17:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@96.231.128.115 with login) by smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 17:17:46 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: HzaxvK0VM1nYUlTLHok1REp4S9cE5x5ugWw14uw3wt4DnNyE29PzubYUP.NMnLDkTdyB5E4NLaoFGMa8IZsu2wvfthExlZtLuSBSjzrEMiiT44PuEVzjN1.ZskR2XTor1pznD6407BslVXk- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Turner, Sean P." To: "'Denis Pinkas'" , References: Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:10:44 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <024b01c873e3$87acfa50$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Achz4JnIXKI+V90zR3qhwmRZ9EMiBwAAR2uA Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: As I dig around, I find that 1024 is pretty much the minimum that is recommended. Both NIST (SP 800-78) and RSA (http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2004) recommend at least 1024 now. Also, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen a 768-bit key in a certificate - all I've seen for years now is 1024. spt >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:34 AM >To: ietf-smime@imc.org >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > > > > >>How about for 3851bis: A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key >pairs at a >>minimum key size of 1024 bits. A user agent MUST NOT >generate RSA key >>pairs less than 1024 bits long. > >With these two sentences there is no more room for key sizes >less than 1024 bits. >768 bits is still fully adequate, even we can recommend to use >1024 bits as the minimum. > >Denis > >>I'll move the 768 back to 512 as suggested by Simon. >> >>spt >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Russ Housley [mailto:housley@vigilsec.com] >>>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:16 AM >>>To: Turner, Sean P. >>>Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org >>>Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >>> >>>Sean: >>> >>>Given the proposed text, it sounds like you really want to say that >>>key sizes from 768 to 2048 bits must be supported, even >though you are >>>recommending 1024 bits as the minimum for newly generated keys. >>> >>>Russ >>> >>>At 07:17 AM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >>> >>>>I should have been clearer. >>>> >>>>RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): >>>> >>>> Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >>>> >>>>Suggesting it be replaced with: >>>> >>>> Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >>>> >>>>Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): >>>> >>>> If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then the >>>> S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or function >>>> SHOULD generate RSA key pairs using the following >>>guidelines. A user >>>> agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 >>>> was 768 ^^^^ >bits. A user >>>> agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 bits long. >>>> Creating keys longer than >>>> ^^^ was 512 >>>> 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to not be >>>> able to verify signatures, but gives better security and is >>>therefore >>>> valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify >>>signatures with >>>> keys of any size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United >>>> ^^^ was 512 >>>> States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get more >>>> advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are >considered >>>> by many to be cryptographically insecure. Implementers SHOULD be >>>> aware that multiple >>>> (active) key pairs can be associated with a single >>>individual. For >>>> example, one key pair can be used to support >>>confidentiality, while a >>>> different key pair can be used for authentication. >>>> >>>>Thoughts? >>>> >>>>spt >>>> >>>> >-----Original Message----- >>>> >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >>>> >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >>>> >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >>>> >To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >>>> >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >>>> >> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >>>> >clear to me >>>> >>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >>>> >key sizes are MAY. >>>> >>I'm suggesting the following text: >>>> >> >>>> >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. >>>Keys sizes >>>> >>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. >>>> > >>>> >Sure. >>>> > >>>> >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >>>> >smaller than 1024? >>>> > >>>> >MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? >>>> > >>> >> >> > >Regards, > >Denis Pinkas > > > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KGmVoH023942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:48:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KGmVSh023941; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:48:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp110.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp110.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.53.9]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KGmUKf023933 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:48:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 91561 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2008 16:48:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@96.231.128.115 with login) by smtp110.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 16:48:29 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: aYM5uH0VM1m5qn.Tqa2q86q4nzZxr3TueDL6G9MWRzX3nMu8vzfGzSM2eERpEMULBuxP381GSA-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Turner, Sean P." To: "'Denis Pinkas'" , References: Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:41:27 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <023401c873df$706752e0$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Achz24eYkcBuw5ktTJ2uE2MqLrGpfgAACc/A Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Denis, Comments inline... spt >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Denis Pinkas >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:49 AM >To: ietf-smime@imc.org >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > > >Sean, > >I like the proposed text, with two exceptions: > >A - " A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify signatures >with keys of any size over 768 bits". > >1 - The upper limit is unlimited, so I would not like that sentence > to be interpreted so that we SHOULD support 4096 bits keys :-( In December we talked about keys large than 2048 and most people felt that they should be a MAY. >2 - With that sentence, there is no MUST for a receiving agent. > >We should have sentences like: > >A receiving agent SHALL ... >A receiving agent SHOULD ... > >The following is a try: > >A receiving agent SHALL be able to verify signatures with keys >of any size between 768 bits and 2048 bits. > >A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify signatures with >keys of any size between 512 bits and 767 bits, for backwards >compatibility. > >OR > >A receiving agent SHALL be able to verify signatures with keys >of any size between 1024 bits and 2048 bits. > >A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify signatures with >keys of any size between 512 bits and 1023 bits. The reason I think it's a SHOULD as opposed to SHALL is that they didn't want to limit the upper bounds. If we change this to a SHALL then we have to decide where the upper bounds is. I actually prefer to leave this as SHOULD verify signatures with keys any size over 512 bits. >B - Then the following text should be improved and moved in >the security considerations section: > >" Implementers SHOULD be aware that multiple >(active) key pairs can be associated with a single individual. > For example, one key pair can be used to support >confidentiality, while a different key pair can be used for >authentication". We can move the text. >I suggest to use the material sent in my earlier e-mail. > >Denis > >=============================================================== > >>I should have been clearer. >> >>RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): >> >> Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >> >>Suggesting it be replaced with: >> >> Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >> >>Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): >> >> If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then >the S/MIME >> agent or some related administrative utility or function SHOULD >> generate RSA key pairs using the following guidelines. A user agent >> SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 >> was 768 ^^^^ bits. A user >> agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 bits long. >> Creating keys longer than >> ^^^ was 512 >> 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to >not be able >> to verify signatures, but gives better security and is therefore >> valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify >signatures with >> keys of any size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United >> ^^^ was 512 >> States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get more >> advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are >considered by >> many to be cryptographically insecure. Implementers SHOULD be aware >> that multiple >> (active) key pairs can be associated with a single individual. For >> example, one key pair can be used to support >confidentiality, while a >> different key pair can be used for authentication. >> >>Thoughts? >> >>spt >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >>>[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >>>Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >>>To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >>>Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >>> >>> >>>At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >>>> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >>>clear to me >>>>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >>>key sizes are MAY. >>>>I'm suggesting the following text: >>>> >>>>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes >>>>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. >>> >>>Sure. >>> >>>>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >>>smaller than 1024? >>> >>>MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? >>> >> >> > >Regards, > >Denis Pinkas > > > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KGYIdJ021555 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:34:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KGYIhs021554; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:34:18 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KGYFM8021539 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:34:17 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05762 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:43:26 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2008022017340595:62333 ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:34:05 +0100 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:34:03 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 20/02/2008 17:34:05, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 20/02/2008 17:34:15, Serialize complete at 20/02/2008 17:34:15 Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: >How about for 3851bis: A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a >minimum key size of 1024 bits. A user agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs >less than 1024 bits long. With these two sentences there is no more room for key sizes less than 1024 bits. 768 bits is still fully adequate, even we can recommend to use 1024 bits as the minimum. Denis >I'll move the 768 back to 512 as suggested by Simon. > >spt >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Russ Housley [mailto:housley@vigilsec.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:16 AM >>To: Turner, Sean P. >>Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org >>Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >> >>Sean: >> >>Given the proposed text, it sounds like you really want to say >>that key sizes from 768 to 2048 bits must be supported, even >>though you are recommending 1024 bits as the minimum for newly >>generated keys. >> >>Russ >> >>At 07:17 AM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >> >>>I should have been clearer. >>> >>>RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): >>> >>> Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >>> >>>Suggesting it be replaced with: >>> >>> Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >>> >>>Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): >>> >>> If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then the >>> S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or function >>> SHOULD generate RSA key pairs using the following >>guidelines. A user >>> agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 >>> was 768 ^^^^ bits. A user >>> agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 bits long. >>> Creating keys longer than >>> ^^^ was 512 >>> 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to not be >>> able to verify signatures, but gives better security and is >>therefore >>> valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify >>signatures with >>> keys of any size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United >>> ^^^ was 512 >>> States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get more >>> advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are considered >>> by many to be cryptographically insecure. Implementers SHOULD be >>> aware that multiple >>> (active) key pairs can be associated with a single >>individual. For >>> example, one key pair can be used to support >>confidentiality, while a >>> different key pair can be used for authentication. >>> >>>Thoughts? >>> >>>spt >>> >>> >-----Original Message----- >>> >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >>> >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >>> >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >>> >To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >>> >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >>> > >>> > >>> >At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >>> >> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >>> >clear to me >>> >>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >>> >key sizes are MAY. >>> >>I'm suggesting the following text: >>> >> >>> >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. >>Keys sizes >>> >>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. >>> > >>> >Sure. >>> > >>> >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >>> >smaller than 1024? >>> > >>> >MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? >>> > >> > > Regards, Denis Pinkas Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KGCCMG019313 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:12:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KGCCr4019312; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:12:12 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp108.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp108.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.52.47]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KGC8OH019304 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:12:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 47974 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2008 16:12:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@96.231.128.115 with login) by smtp108.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 16:12:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Turner, Sean P." To: "'Russ Housley'" Cc: References: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:05:00 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <021001c873da$58a51de0$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AchzzX1vcMVj16GpTQCNiGr/lVDVmwADGGCA Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: How about for 3851bis: A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 bits. A user agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 1024 bits long. I'll move the 768 back to 512 as suggested by Simon. spt >-----Original Message----- >From: Russ Housley [mailto:housley@vigilsec.com] >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 9:16 AM >To: Turner, Sean P. >Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org >Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > >Sean: > >Given the proposed text, it sounds like you really want to say >that key sizes from 768 to 2048 bits must be supported, even >though you are recommending 1024 bits as the minimum for newly >generated keys. > >Russ > >At 07:17 AM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >>I should have been clearer. >> >>RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): >> >> Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >> >>Suggesting it be replaced with: >> >> Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. >> >>Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): >> >> If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then the >> S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or function >> SHOULD generate RSA key pairs using the following >guidelines. A user >> agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 >> was 768 ^^^^ bits. A user >> agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 bits long. >> Creating keys longer than >> ^^^ was 512 >> 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to not be >> able to verify signatures, but gives better security and is >therefore >> valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify >signatures with >> keys of any size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United >> ^^^ was 512 >> States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get more >> advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are considered >> by many to be cryptographically insecure. Implementers SHOULD be >> aware that multiple >> (active) key pairs can be associated with a single >individual. For >> example, one key pair can be used to support >confidentiality, while a >> different key pair can be used for authentication. >> >>Thoughts? >> >>spt >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >> >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >> >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >> >To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >> >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >> > >> > >> >At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >> >> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >> >clear to me >> >>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >> >key sizes are MAY. >> >>I'm suggesting the following text: >> >> >> >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. >Keys sizes >> >>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. >> > >> >Sure. >> > >> >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >> >smaller than 1024? >> > >> >MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? >> > > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KFnUVd016291 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:49:31 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KFnU1L016290; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:49:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KFnSDR016271 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:49:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-001.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.31]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31232 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:58:34 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2008022016491013:60885 ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:49:10 +0100 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:49:07 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 20/02/2008 16:49:10, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 20/02/2008 16:49:23, Serialize complete at 20/02/2008 16:49:23 Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Sean, I like the proposed text, with two exceptions: A - " A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify signatures with keys of any size over 768 bits". 1 - The upper limit is unlimited, so I would not like that sentence to be interpreted so that we SHOULD support 4096 bits keys :-( 2 - With that sentence, there is no MUST for a receiving agent. We should have sentences like: A receiving agent SHALL ... A receiving agent SHOULD ... The following is a try: A receiving agent SHALL be able to verify signatures with keys of any size between 768 bits and 2048 bits. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify signatures with keys of any size between 512 bits and 767 bits, for backwards compatibility. OR A receiving agent SHALL be able to verify signatures with keys of any size between 1024 bits and 2048 bits. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify signatures with keys of any size between 512 bits and 1023 bits. B - Then the following text should be improved and moved in the security considerations section: " Implementers SHOULD be aware that multiple (active) key pairs can be associated with a single individual. For example, one key pair can be used to support confidentiality, while a different key pair can be used for authentication". I suggest to use the material sent in my earlier e-mail. Denis =============================================================== >I should have been clearer. > >RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): > > Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >Suggesting it be replaced with: > > Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): > > If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, > then the S/MIME agent or some related administrative > utility or function SHOULD generate RSA key pairs > using the following guidelines. A user agent SHOULD > generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 > was 768 ^^^^ > bits. A user agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs > less than 768 bits long. Creating keys longer than > ^^^ was 512 > 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents > to not be able to verify signatures, but gives better > security and is therefore valuable. A receiving agent > SHOULD be able to verify signatures with keys of any > size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United > ^^^ was 512 > States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to > get more advantageous export licenses. However, 512 > bit keys are considered by many to be cryptographically > insecure. Implementers SHOULD be aware that multiple > (active) key pairs can be associated with a single > individual. For example, one key pair can be used > to support confidentiality, while a different key pair > can be used for authentication. > >Thoughts? > >spt > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >>[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >>Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >>To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >>Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >> >> >>At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >>> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >>clear to me >>>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >>key sizes are MAY. >>>I'm suggesting the following text: >>> >>>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes >>>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. >> >>Sure. >> >>>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >>smaller than 1024? >> >>MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? >> > > Regards, Denis Pinkas Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KEWut8007573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:32:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KEWuWj007572; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:32:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [8.8.40.152]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KEWt54007565 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:32:55 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Message-Id: <200802201432.m1KEWt54007565@balder-227.proper.com> Received: (qmail 27627 invoked by uid 0); 20 Feb 2008 14:32:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (72.83.129.167) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 14:32:53 -0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:16:02 -0500 To: "Turner, Sean P." From: Russ Housley Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org In-Reply-To: <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> References: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Sean: Given the proposed text, it sounds like you really want to say that key sizes from 768 to 2048 bits must be supported, even though you are recommending 1024 bits as the minimum for newly generated keys. Russ At 07:17 AM 2/20/2008, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >I should have been clearer. > >RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): > > Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >Suggesting it be replaced with: > > Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): > > If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, > then the S/MIME agent or some related administrative > utility or function SHOULD generate RSA key pairs > using the following guidelines. A user agent SHOULD > generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 > was 768 ^^^^ > bits. A user agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs > less than 768 bits long. Creating keys longer than > ^^^ was 512 > 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents > to not be able to verify signatures, but gives better > security and is therefore valuable. A receiving agent > SHOULD be able to verify signatures with keys of any > size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United > ^^^ was 512 > States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to > get more advantageous export licenses. However, 512 > bit keys are considered by many to be cryptographically > insecure. Implementers SHOULD be aware that multiple > (active) key pairs can be associated with a single > individual. For example, one key pair can be used > to support confidentiality, while a different key pair > can be used for authentication. > >Thoughts? > >spt > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org > >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman > >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM > >To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org > >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > > > > > >At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty > >clear to me > >>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other > >key sizes are MAY. > >>I'm suggesting the following text: > >> > >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes > >>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. > > > >Sure. > > > >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes > >smaller than 1024? > > > >MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? > > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KE9YUx004549 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:09:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KE9YhU004548; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:09:34 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [8.8.40.152]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KE9XfC004534 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:09:33 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Message-Id: <200802201409.m1KE9XfC004534@balder-227.proper.com> Received: (qmail 20806 invoked by uid 0); 20 Feb 2008 14:09:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (72.83.129.167) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 14:09:30 -0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:09:29 -0500 To: "Denis Pinkas" From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Cc: ietf-smime@imc.org In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Denis: >As far as interoperability is concerned the current text is: >"A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of >768 bits". This statement is in conflict with the consensus call that the WG Chair made at the beginning of the thread. Sean said: >> From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty clear to me that >>key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other key sizes are MAY. Russ Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KD00n8097080 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:00:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KD00op097079; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:00:00 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from yxa.extundo.com (yxa.extundo.com [83.241.177.38]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KCxtFL097068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:59:59 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from simon@josefsson.org) Received: from mocca.josefsson.org (yxa.extundo.com [83.241.177.38]) (authenticated bits=0) by yxa.extundo.com (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id m1KCxdxR018089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:59:41 +0100 From: Simon Josefsson To: "Turner\, Sean P." Cc: Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 References: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> OpenPGP: id=B565716F; url=http://josefsson.org/key.txt X-Hashcash: 1:22:080220:ietf-smime@imc.org::98GkO61g+XO0Lwua:HTVW X-Hashcash: 1:22:080220:turners@ieca.com::4h26LYwMBjXToJZe:eM70 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:59:39 +0100 In-Reply-To: <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> (Sean P. Turner's message of "Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:17:07 -0500") Message-ID: <878x1fokas.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110007 (No Gnus v0.7) Emacs/22.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=4.0 tests=SPF_PASS autolearn=disabled version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on yxa-iv X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.2, clamav-milter version 0.88.2 on yxa.extundo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: "Turner, Sean P." writes: > I should have been clearer. > > RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): > > Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > > Suggesting it be replaced with: > > Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > > Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): > > If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, > then the S/MIME agent or some related administrative > utility or function SHOULD generate RSA key pairs > using the following guidelines. A user agent SHOULD > generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 > was 768 ^^^^ > bits. A user agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs > less than 768 bits long. Creating keys longer than > ^^^ was 512 > 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents > to not be able to verify signatures, but gives better > security and is therefore valuable. A receiving agent > SHOULD be able to verify signatures with keys of any > size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United > ^^^ was 512 I agree with your proposed change except for the last one -- is there any motivation to drop the SHOULD regarding verification of signatures done with 512 bit keys? I don't think there is one. Alerting the user that the key is insecure, or other user interface considerations, is orthogonal to the actual verification. /Simon > States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to > get more advantageous export licenses. However, 512 > bit keys are considered by many to be cryptographically > insecure. Implementers SHOULD be aware that multiple > (active) key pairs can be associated with a single > individual. For example, one key pair can be used > to support confidentiality, while a different key pair > can be used for authentication. > > Thoughts? > > spt > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >>[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >>Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >>To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >>Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >> >> >>At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >>> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >>clear to me >>>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >>key sizes are MAY. >>>I'm suggesting the following text: >>> >>>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes >>>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. >> >>Sure. >> >>>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >>smaller than 1024? >> >>MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? >> Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KCvNj2096749 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:57:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KCvN6N096748; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:57:23 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.52.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KCvMJp096739 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:57:22 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 24817 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2008 12:57:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@96.231.128.115 with login) by smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 12:57:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 1YWwOkYVM1nIbDoep21eV31oMam40jEJNMXcuqhaY_y7w62t X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Turner, Sean P." To: References: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:50:20 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <019c01c873bf$26f8b380$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> Thread-Index: AchzKUBRPjORgh9DSkSTfmoeChzg5AAj9W9gAAFi5EA= Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Turner, Sean P. >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:17 AM >To: ietf-smime@imc.org >Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > > >I should have been clearer. > >RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): > > Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >Suggesting it be replaced with: > > Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. > >Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): > > If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then >the S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or >function SHOULD generate RSA key pairs using the following >guidelines. A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a >minimum key size of 1024 bits. > was 768 ^^^^ >A user agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 > was 512 ^^^ >bits long. Creating keys longer than > 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to >not be able to verify signatures, but gives better security >and is therefore valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able >to verify signatures with keys of any size over 768 bits. > was 512 ^^^ >Some agents created in the United > States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get >more advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are >considered by many to be cryptographically insecure. >Implementers SHOULD be aware that multiple > (active) key pairs can be associated with a single >individual. For example, one key pair can be used to support >confidentiality, while a different key pair can be used for >authentication. > >Thoughts? > >spt > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >>[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >>Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >>To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >>Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 >> >> >>At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >>> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >>clear to me >>>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >>key sizes are MAY. >>>I'm suggesting the following text: >>> >>>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes >>>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. >> >>Sure. >> >>>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >>smaller than 1024? >> >>MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? >> > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KCOQox093699 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:24:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KCOQx2093698; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:24:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.52.173]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1KCOO4A093670 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 05:24:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 6800 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2008 12:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@71.191.14.100 with login) by smtp104.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2008 12:24:09 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 1hL5Z9wVM1kFJ64B7l_.lPKezxtOUsQAbiTfPNOfAY2XehaLKCOAnAMC2q_YCy.wq3B8CiNAJCl4JD.kNe4tM80T9UuFCo5HnBaJXAiNWDaHrTqaYBLpH8gKRKX8Omv_fe_Wx2v4uq1IV5s- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Turner, Sean P." To: References: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> Subject: RE: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:17:07 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <019b01c873ba$8337e990$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AchzKUBRPjORgh9DSkSTfmoeChzg5AAj9W9g Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: I should have been clearer. RFC 3850 current says (sec 4.3): Key sizes from 512 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. Suggesting it be replaced with: Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 bits MUST be supported. Here are the suggested changes RFC 3851 (sec 4.1): If an S/MIME agent needs to generate an RSA key pair, then the S/MIME agent or some related administrative utility or function SHOULD generate RSA key pairs using the following guidelines. A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 1024 was 768 ^^^^ bits. A user agent MUST NOT generate RSA key pairs less than 768 bits long. Creating keys longer than ^^^ was 512 1024 bits can cause some older S/MIME receiving agents to not be able to verify signatures, but gives better security and is therefore valuable. A receiving agent SHOULD be able to verify signatures with keys of any size over 768 bits. Some agents created in the United ^^^ was 512 States have chosen to create 512 bit keys in order to get more advantageous export licenses. However, 512 bit keys are considered by many to be cryptographically insecure. Implementers SHOULD be aware that multiple (active) key pairs can be associated with a single individual. For example, one key pair can be used to support confidentiality, while a different key pair can be used for authentication. Thoughts? spt >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org >[mailto:owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org] On Behalf Of Paul Hoffman >Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 1:42 PM >To: Turner, Sean P.; ietf-smime@imc.org >Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 > > >At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: >> >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty >clear to me >>that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other >key sizes are MAY. >>I'm suggesting the following text: >> >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes >>larger than 2048 MAY be supported. > >Sure. > >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes >smaller than 1024? > >MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? > Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KAPAo9081530 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:25:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1KAPAKT081529; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:25:10 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from odin2.bull.net (odin2.bull.net [129.184.85.11]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1KAP71E081520 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 03:25:08 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from denis.pinkas@bull.net) Received: from MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (msga-mcl1.frcl.bull.fr [129.184.87.20]) by odin2.bull.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14046 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:34:17 +0100 Received: from frcls4013 ([129.182.108.120]) by MSGA-001.frcl.bull.fr (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.11) with SMTP id 2008022011244362:51263 ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:24:43 +0100 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:24:35 +0100 From: "Denis Pinkas" To: "ietf-smime@imc.org" Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [-fr-] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 20/02/2008 11:24:43, Serialize by Router on MSGA-001/FR/BULL(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 20/02/2008 11:25:04, Serialize complete at 20/02/2008 11:25:04 Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: >Sean: > >> From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty clear to me that >>key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other key sizes are MAY. >>I'm suggesting the following text: >> >>Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes larger >>than 2048 MAY be supported. > >s/buts/bits/ > >>Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes smaller than 1024? > >I think we ought to be forgiving on receive. Thus, I suggest: >Message originators SHOULD NOT use key sizes smaller than 1024 bits >for private key operations. Recommendations for key sizes depend on the usage of the key. If the private key is to be used to sign data in the context of an authentication service or a non repudiation service, then the private key shall resist during the validity period of the certificate (usually one to three years). If the key size has been chosen too small, there is no security breach: it is only needed to revoke the certificate. If the private key is to be used to decrypt data, than the key should resist as long as the encrypted data should be kept confidential. RFC 3161 is using S-MIME. If the key is to be used for a Time Stamping Unit (TSU), it had better to resist quite longer and 2048 bits would be recommended. These kinds o recommendations should be included in the security considerations section. As far as interoperability is concerned the current text is: "A user agent SHOULD generate RSA key pairs at a minimum key size of 768 bits". This key size is still safe for authentication and non repudiation and thus there is no reason to raise this value. >Russ Denis Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1JMKwNK015375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:20:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1JMKwhB015374; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:20:58 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from woodstock.binhost.com (woodstock.binhost.com [8.8.40.152]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1JMKu5B015366 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:20:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from housley@vigilsec.com) Message-Id: <200802192220.m1JMKu5B015366@balder-227.proper.com> Received: (qmail 2324 invoked by uid 0); 19 Feb 2008 22:20:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO THINKPADR52.vigilsec.com) (72.83.129.167) by woodstock.binhost.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2008 22:20:48 -0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:08:30 -0500 To: "Turner, Sean P." , From: Russ Housley Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 In-Reply-To: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> References: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Sean: > From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty clear to me that >key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other key sizes are MAY. >I'm suggesting the following text: > >Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes larger >than 2048 MAY be supported. s/buts/bits/ >Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes smaller than 1024? I think we ought to be forgiving on receive. Thus, I suggest: Message originators SHOULD NOT use key sizes smaller than 1024 bits for private key operations. Russ Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1JIgW7S091444 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:42:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1JIgWRn091443; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:42:32 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from [10.20.30.152] (dsl-63-249-108-169.cruzio.com [63.249.108.169]) (authenticated bits=0) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1JIgKP8091410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:42:28 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from phoffman@imc.org) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> References: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 10:42:17 -0800 To: "Turner, Sean P." , From: Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: At 11:34 AM -0500 2/19/08, Turner, Sean P. wrote: > >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty clear to me that >key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other key sizes are MAY. >I'm suggesting the following text: > >Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes larger >than 2048 MAY be supported. Sure. >Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes smaller than 1024? MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT *what*? Generate, or validate? Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1JGgQ3q075897 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:42:27 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1JGgQhE075896; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:42:26 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp103.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp103.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [68.142.229.217]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1JGgPFv075889 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 09:42:25 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 3901 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2008 16:42:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@71.191.2.51 with login) by smtp103.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2008 16:42:00 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: KMfB6y8VM1lqnN.oAiGwJLdxc8zraau0Rcgm21z2wiGVVpDpkViunOGO4ruHfg7oVabkQVaf8EECL6D7xVmTtLzWUBdgqSs3nY2gIGxCZMLesVPKgm4kEQ1Kk9rjKoAM0DNyf0hKuKgAABs- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Turner, Sean P." To: Subject: Key Sizes in S/MIME v3.2 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 11:34:59 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <000001c87315$5ef4fb40$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: AchzFV52ULPznMhlTPS8l/PllUrofg== Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: >From the mail discussion we had in December, it's pretty clear to me that key sizes from 1024-2048 ought to be the MUST and other key sizes are MAY. I'm suggesting the following text: Key sizes from 1024 bits to 2048 buts MUST be supported. Keys sizes larger than 2048 MAY be supported. Should we put a MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT in for key sizes smaller than 1024? I also removed the ECDSA text so the key sizes only refer to RSA/DSA keys. spt Received: from balder-227.proper.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id m1EHYbUf027371 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:34:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5/Submit) id m1EHYbE8027370; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:34:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org) X-Authentication-Warning: balder-227.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org using -f Received: from smtp107.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com (smtp107.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com [206.190.52.176]) by balder-227.proper.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id m1EHYYVr027363 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 10:34:36 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from turners@ieca.com) Received: (qmail 20058 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2008 17:34:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Wylie) (turners@ieca.com@71.191.5.25 with login) by smtp107.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 14 Feb 2008 17:34:23 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: wPawPPkVM1kyJI7EBCnEvNFZjY1If1ktW2JQ8zKxOSWg1tsDWsDa2lFmaMHRODrji49IC.Rg6CuefwYBEeOYhTZ_spyNvIcKGgXJpQVb4oQJ5A-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Turner, Sean P." To: Subject: SMIME Agenda Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:27:38 -0500 Organization: IECA, Inc. Message-ID: <013301c86f2e$e56bb8c0$0301a8c0@Wylie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0134_01C86F04.FC95B0C0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: AchvLuT+L+7CUk0/QyiUOkiaXYVj9Q== Sender: owner-ietf-smime@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0134_01C86F04.FC95B0C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anyone would like a slot on the SMIME agenda please let me know. spt ------=_NextPart_000_0134_01C86F04.FC95B0C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SMIME Agenda

    If anyone would like a slot on the = SMIME agenda please let me know.

    spt

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