
From turners@ieca.com  Mon Oct  5 11:00:49 2009
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Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:02:21 -0400
From: Sean Turner <turners@ieca.com>
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Subject: [smime] Possible Work Item: draft-turner-additional-cms-ri-choices-00.txt
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Russ and I have posted the following individual draft.  I would like the 
working group to consider adopting it as a WG item.

spt

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.


	Title		: Additional CMS Revocation Information Choices
	Author(s)	: R. Housley, S. Turner
	Filename	: draft-turner-additional-cms-ri-choices-00.txt
	Pages		: 8
	Date		: 2009-10-5
	
The Cryptographic Message Syntax (CMS) allows revocation information 
   to be conveyed as part of the SignedData, EnvelopedData, 
   AuthenticatedData, and AuthEnvelopedData content types.  The 
   preferred format for revocation information is the Certificate 
   Revocation List (CRL), but an extension mechanism supports other 
   revocation information choices.  This document defines two additional 
   revocation information formats for Online Certificate Status Protocol 
   (OCSP) responses and Server-Based Certificate Validation Protocol 
   (SCVP). 

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http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-turner-additional-cms-ri-choices-00.txt

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From Nick.Pope@thales-esecurity.com  Tue Oct  6 03:36:53 2009
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From: "Pope, Nick" <Nick.Pope@thales-esecurity.com>
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Subject: [smime] Feedback on visible signatures in PDF
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All,

Within ETSI STF 364 on PDF Advanced Electronic Signatures we are reviewing
requirements relating to visible representation of signatures within PDF and
would very much welcome feedback on the questions raised in the attached
document to assist in setting the direction of our work.    Response is
requested by 12 November so that these can be discussed at our next face to
face meeting.  You can send responses to me by email at:

 nick.pope@thales-esecurity.com

Regards

Nick Pope
Co-Lead STF 364

Consider the environment before printing this mail.
"Thales e-Security Limited is incorporated in England and Wales with company
registration number 2518805. Its registered office is located at 2 Dashwood
Lang Road, The Bourne Business Park, Addlestone, Nr. Weybridge, Surrey KT15
2NX.
The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It may also be
privileged. It is only intended for the stated addressee(s) and access to it
by any other person is unauthorised. If you are not an addressee or the
intended addressee, you must not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other
way use or rely on the information contained in this e-mail. Such
unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error
please delete it (and all copies) from your system, please also inform us
immediately on +44 (0)1844 201800 or email postmaster@thales-esecurity.com.
Commercial matters detailed or referred to in this e-mail are subject to a
written contract signed for and on behalf of Thales e-Security Limited". 


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From A.Hoenes@TR-Sys.de  Wed Oct  7 14:25:35 2009
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Subject: [smime] [rt.amsl.com #19953] Resolved: Spam on moved WG lists archives (fwd)
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Many thanks to the IETF Secretariat IT staff for installing the
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> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:38:32 -0700
> Subject: [rt.amsl.com #19953] Resolved: Spam on moved WG lists archives 
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Many=20thanks=20to=20the=20IETF=20Secretariat=20IT=20staff=20for=20install=
ing=20the
spam=20protection=20measures=20(that=20already=20had=20been=20in=20force=20=
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moved
to=20"at=20ietf.org"=20as=20well,=20and=20for=20cleaning=20up=20the=20move=
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archives!

=20=20Alfred.


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From A.Hoenes@TR-Sys.de  Fri Oct  9 06:02:27 2009
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Subject: [smime] draft-turner-additional-cms-ri-choices-00
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Hello,
following Sean's kind invitation, I have taken a closer look at
    draft-turner-additional-cms-ri-choices-00.

It has been observed that CRLs in many deployments are increasing
in size to an extent making their use unmanageable in various
messaging scenarios.  The IETF has standardized two protocols
providing certificate verification information.
To make responses obtained via these protocols available for
inclusion in CMS messages in an interoperable manner, standardized
conventions are needed, and this draft aims at providing these.

As such, this is a useful addition to the CMS framework.
I support adopting this straightforward document, which should not
need much discussion, and it should b possible to ship it quickly
 to the IESG for publication as a Standards Track RFC.


Editorials:


(1)  Section 4 -- a typo, and an enhancement request

(1a)
Typo in the 1st line:    s/unprotect/unprotected/

(1b)
Because of the commonality and the related flaw later on in the draft,
I suggest to add to the text in Section 4 a clause like:

|  SCVP responses use the type CVResponse, identified by the OID
|  id-ct-scvp-certValResponse, which both are defined in [SCVP].

After this addition, some subsequent text might be shortened.
(This is a MAY !)


(2)  Section 4.2 and Appendix A.1 -- inconsistency

Apparently, there has been a shift in the design; now the idea is
to assign new OIDs all under the id-ri branch, and not to 'recycle'
id-ct-scvp-certValResponse immediately for Unprotected SCVP Responses.

However, this shift has not been completed consistently in the draft
text; the next detail most likely is a result of this incomplete
change.

In Section 4.2, the first paragraph and the subsequent definition
do not match and this inconsistency leads to an inappropriate
citation:

   To carry an unprotected SCVP response, the otherRevInfoFormat is set
|  to id-ct-scvp-certValResponse, which has the following ASN.1
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|  definition [SCVP]:
             ^^^^^^^
!  id-ri-unprotected-scvp-response OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { id-ri TBD }
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Following the naming style in 4.1.*, this should perhaps read:

   To carry an unprotected SCVP response, the otherRevInfoFormat is set
|  to id-ri-unprotected-scvp-response, which has the following ASN.1
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|  definition:

   id-ri-unprotected-scvp-response OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { id-ri TBD }

Note:
  It would indeed have made some sense to keep
  id-ct-scvp-certValResponse for this purpose,
  but the uniform use of id-ri would be lost this way.

Even worse, the last OID definition in A.1 does not match
Section 4.2 either, introducing yet another name, which does
not appear anywhere else in the draft:

|  id-ri-scvp-certValResponse OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { id-ri TBD }
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I strongly propose to use  id-ri-unprotected-scvp-response   as well.

Note:
 A.2 indeed uses, consistent with the definition in 4.2 (but not
 the prose, as shown above):

|  id-ri-unprotected-scvp-response OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { id-ri TBD }
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Please ensure consistency of the OID names.


(3)  Appendix A -- comment

The draft says:

   Appendix A.1 provides the normative ASN.1 definitions for the
   structures described in this specification using ASN.1 as defined in
   [X.680] for compilers that support the 1988 ASN.1.

   Appendix A.2 provides informative ASN.1 definitions for the
   structures described in this specification using ASN.1 as defined in
   [X.680], [X.681], [X.682], and [X.683] for compilers that support the
   2002 ASN.1. This appendix contains the same information as Appendix
   A.1 in a more recent (and precise) ASN.1 notation, however Appendix
   A.1 takes precedence in case of conflict.

That's a really nice description.
Should the WG adopt this text as boilerplate for future documents --
as long as we still hesitate to fully shift to the 'new' ASN.1 ?


Kind regards,
  Alfred HÎnes.

-- 

+------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
| TR-Sys Alfred Hoenes   |  Alfred Hoenes   Dipl.-Math., Dipl.-Phys.  |
| Gerlinger Strasse 12   |  Phone: (+49)7156/9635-0, Fax: -18         |
| D-71254  Ditzingen     |  E-Mail:  ah@TR-Sys.de                     |
+------------------------+--------------------------------------------+


From turners@ieca.com  Fri Oct  9 07:29:16 2009
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Subject: Re: [smime] draft-turner-additional-cms-ri-choices-00
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Alfred,

Thanks again for the review.

spt

Alfred ï¿½ wrote:
> Hello,
> following Sean's kind invitation, I have taken a closer look at
>     draft-turner-additional-cms-ri-choices-00.
> 
> It has been observed that CRLs in many deployments are increasing
> in size to an extent making their use unmanageable in various
> messaging scenarios.  The IETF has standardized two protocols
> providing certificate verification information.
> To make responses obtained via these protocols available for
> inclusion in CMS messages in an interoperable manner, standardized
> conventions are needed, and this draft aims at providing these.
> 
> As such, this is a useful addition to the CMS framework.
> I support adopting this straightforward document, which should not
> need much discussion, and it should b possible to ship it quickly
>  to the IESG for publication as a Standards Track RFC.
> 
> 
> Editorials:
> 
> 
> (1)  Section 4 -- a typo, and an enhancement request
> 
> (1a)
> Typo in the 1st line:    s/unprotect/unprotected/

Fixed.

> (1b)
> Because of the commonality and the related flaw later on in the draft,
> I suggest to add to the text in Section 4 a clause like:
> 
> |  SCVP responses use the type CVResponse, identified by the OID
> |  id-ct-scvp-certValResponse, which both are defined in [SCVP].
> 
> After this addition, some subsequent text might be shortened.
> (This is a MAY !)

I can see what you're driving at, but I have to admit that I like that
all the text for authenticated, unauthenticated, and unprotected are in
their own sections.  This way if somebody just jumps to that section
it's all there.

> (2)  Section 4.2 and Appendix A.1 -- inconsistency
> 
> Apparently, there has been a shift in the design; now the idea is
> to assign new OIDs all under the id-ri branch, and not to 'recycle'
> id-ct-scvp-certValResponse immediately for Unprotected SCVP Responses.
> 
> However, this shift has not been completed consistently in the draft
> text; the next detail most likely is a result of this incomplete
> change.
> 
> In Section 4.2, the first paragraph and the subsequent definition
> do not match and this inconsistency leads to an inappropriate
> citation:
> 
>    To carry an unprotected SCVP response, the otherRevInfoFormat is set
> |  to id-ct-scvp-certValResponse, which has the following ASN.1
>          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> |  definition [SCVP]:
>              ^^^^^^^
> !  id-ri-unprotected-scvp-response OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { id-ri TBD }
>       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Following the naming style in 4.1.*, this should perhaps read:
> 
>    To carry an unprotected SCVP response, the otherRevInfoFormat is set
> |  to id-ri-unprotected-scvp-response, which has the following ASN.1
>          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> |  definition:
> 
>    id-ri-unprotected-scvp-response OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { id-ri TBD }

Yes it should.  Fixed.

> Note:
>   It would indeed have made some sense to keep
>   id-ct-scvp-certValResponse for this purpose,
>   but the uniform use of id-ri would be lost this way.
> 
> Even worse, the last OID definition in A.1 does not match
> Section 4.2 either, introducing yet another name, which does
> not appear anywhere else in the draft:
> 
> |  id-ri-scvp-certValResponse OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { id-ri TBD }
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> I strongly propose to use  id-ri-unprotected-scvp-response   as well.

Fixed.

> Note:
>  A.2 indeed uses, consistent with the definition in 4.2 (but not
>  the prose, as shown above):
> 
> |  id-ri-unprotected-scvp-response OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { id-ri TBD }
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Please ensure consistency of the OID names.

All aligned.

> (3)  Appendix A -- comment
> 
> The draft says:
> 
>    Appendix A.1 provides the normative ASN.1 definitions for the
>    structures described in this specification using ASN.1 as defined in
>    [X.680] for compilers that support the 1988 ASN.1.
> 
>    Appendix A.2 provides informative ASN.1 definitions for the
>    structures described in this specification using ASN.1 as defined in
>    [X.680], [X.681], [X.682], and [X.683] for compilers that support the
>    2002 ASN.1. This appendix contains the same information as Appendix
>    A.1 in a more recent (and precise) ASN.1 notation, however Appendix
>    A.1 takes precedence in case of conflict.
> 
> That's a really nice description.
> Should the WG adopt this text as boilerplate for future documents --
> as long as we still hesitate to fully shift to the 'new' ASN.1 ?

Technically, the WG hasn't adopted this as a WG item.  I do think that
until the new ASN.1 IDs are published that we have to have this
boilerplate.  I've copied it from other IDs in this WG and others that
have both ASN.1 versions.


From rybar@nbusr.sk  Wed Oct 21 03:09:44 2009
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From: "Peter Rybar" <rybar@nbusr.sk>
To: smime@ietf.org
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:10:21 +0200
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Subject: [smime] FW: [pkix] I-D Action:draft-ietf-pkix-rfc3161-update-07.txt
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From: Peter Rybar [mailto:rybar@nbusr.sk]=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:41 AM
To: 'pkix@ietf.org'
Cc: 'ietf-smime@ietf.org'; 'ESI@list.etsi.org'; 'peterryb@gmail.com'
Subject: RE: [pkix] I-D Action:draft-ietf-pkix-rfc3161-update-07.txt

=20

Dear all,

The pkix-bounces@ietf.org timestamp discussion about allowing to use =
ESSCertIDv2 (defined in RFC 5035) together with presently used mandatory =
ESSCertID(SHA1) in timestamp causes a confusion.

=20

For example at one important meeting, an expert from one EU country =
presented that he was incorrectly informed that the usage of ESSCertID =
or ESSCertIDv2 is useful only for solving of the hypothetical attack =
which is not possible in reality and mentioned that it was the opinion =
of IETF and ETSI experts.

=20

According to such incorrect information from unknown UK IETF or ETSI =
expert, the one national decision of the usage of ESSCertID or =
ESSCertIDv2 presented ESSCertID or ESSCertIDv2 as not useful as =
mandatory to be included in Qualified Electronic Signatures or AdES =
based on Qualified Certificates.=20

=20

For that reason I would like to remind that at least two easy realizable =
attacks are possible:

Anybody can use any editor tools for substitution attack e.g. =
http://lipingshare.com/Asn1Editor/ which is really smart.

=20

1. Attacker (timestamp or electronic document signer) asks two trusted =
CA for issuing of two certificates with the same key.

2. Attacker asks one CA for revocation of one certificate.

3. If ESSCertID or ESSCertIDv2 is not used, the attacker is able to =
substitute the signer certificate in timestamp (or signature).

4. The electronic signature is therefore not useable as trusted evidence =
in some actions.

=20

1. Attacker (timestamp or electronic document signer) asks two trusted =
CA for issuing of two certificates with the same key but the second =
certificate is asked and issued after the expiration of the first =
certificate issued for the same key.

2. If ESSCertID or ESSCertIDv2 is not used, the attacker is able to =
substitute the signer certificate in timestamp (or signature).

3. The electronic signature is therefore not useable as trusted evidence =
in some actions.

=20

If a certificate is used only as a carrier of public key and the =
certificate validity is not important, then also ESSCertID or =
ESSCertIDv2 is not important but in any other situation when the =
validity has a significant impact on some actions, ESSCertID or =
ESSCertIDv2 must be used.=20

Another possibility for solving such attacks is to have mandatory rules =
for CA and registration authorities:

The CA must issue a certificate only for the key which was newly =
generated by CA or registration operators before the certificate =
creation.=20

=20

Regards,=20

Peter Rybar

=20

tel.: +421 2 6869 2163

mob.: +421 902 891 155

fax:  +421 2 6869 1701

e-mail: peter.rybar@nbusr.sk

e-mail: peterryb@gmail.com

=20

=20

=20

  _____ =20

From: pkix-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pkix-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
Stefan Santesson
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 10:10 AM
To: denis.pinkas@bull.net; pkix
Subject: Re: [pkix] I-D Action:draft-ietf-pkix-rfc3161-update-07.txt

=20

=20


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<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
<st1:PersonName
ProductID=3D"Peter Rybar" w:st=3D"on">Peter Rybar</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:rybar@nbusr.sk] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October =
21, 2009
11:41 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'pkix@ietf.org'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> =
'ietf-smime@ietf.org';
'ESI@list.etsi.org'; 'peterryb@gmail.com'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [pkix] I-D
Action:draft-ietf-pkix-rfc3161-update-07.txt</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>=


</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Dear =
all,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>The =
</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>pkix-bounces@ietf.org
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>timestamp =
discussion about
allowing to use ESSCertIDv2 (defined in RFC 5035) together with =
presently used
mandatory ESSCertID(SHA1) in timestamp causes a =
confusion.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>For example at one =
important
meeting, an expert from one EU country presented that he was incorrectly
informed that the usage of ESSCertID or ESSCertIDv2 is useful only for =
solving
of the hypothetical attack which is not possible in reality and =
mentioned that
it was the opinion of IETF and ETSI =
experts.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>According to such =
incorrect
information from unknown UK IETF or ETSI expert, the one national =
decision of
the usage of ESSCertID or ESSCertIDv2 presented ESSCertID or ESSCertIDv2 =
as not
useful as mandatory to be included in Qualified Electronic Signatures or =
AdES
based on Qualified Certificates. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>For that reason I =
would like
to remind that at least two easy realizable attacks are =
possible:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Anybody can use any =
editor
tools for substitution attack e.g. <a =
href=3D"http://lipingshare.com/Asn1Editor/">http://lipingshare.com/Asn1Ed=
itor/</a><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'> which is really =
smart.</span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>1. Attacker =
(timestamp or
electronic document signer) asks two trusted CA for issuing of two =
certificates
with the same key.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>2. Attacker asks =
one CA for
revocation of one certificate.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>3. If ESSCertID or
ESSCertIDv2 is not used, the attacker is able to substitute the signer
certificate in timestamp (or signature).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>4. The electronic =
signature
is therefore not useable as trusted evidence in some =
actions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>1. Attacker =
(timestamp or
electronic document signer) asks two trusted CA for issuing of two =
certificates
with the same key but the second certificate is asked and issued after =
the
expiration of the first certificate issued for the same =
key.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>2. If ESSCertID or
ESSCertIDv2 is not used, the attacker is able to substitute the signer
certificate in timestamp (or signature).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>3. The electronic =
signature
is therefore not useable as trusted evidence in some =
actions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>If a certificate is =
used
only as a carrier of public key and the certificate validity is not =
important,
then also ESSCertID or ESSCertIDv2 is not important but in any other =
situation
when the validity has a significant impact on some actions, ESSCertID or
ESSCertIDv2 must be used. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Another possibility =
for
solving such attacks is to have mandatory rules for CA and registration
authorities:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>The CA must issue a
certificate only for the key which was newly generated by CA or =
registration
operators before the certificate creation. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Regards, =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:PersonName ProductID=3D"Peter Rybar" =
w:st=3D"on"><font
 size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
 "Courier New"'>Peter Rybar</span></font></st1:PersonName><font size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>tel.:
+421 2 6869 2163<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>mob.:
+421 902 891 155<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>fax:&nbsp;
+421 2 6869 1701</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>e-mail:
<a href=3D"mailto:peter.rybar@nbusr.sk" =
title=3D"mailto:peter.rybar@nbusr.sk">peter.rybar@nbusr.sk</a><o:p></o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText style=3D'margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font =
size=3D2
face=3D"Courier New"><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>e-mail:
<a href=3D"mailto:peterryb@gmail.com" =
title=3D"mailto:peterryb@gmail.com">peterryb@gmail.com</a></span></font><=
span
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</spa=
n></font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
pkix-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pkix-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Stefan Santesson<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October =
20, 2009
10:10 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
denis.pinkas@bull.net; pkix<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [pkix] I-D
Action:draft-ietf-pkix-rfc3161-update-07.txt</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

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From rybar@nbusr.sk  Thu Oct 22 03:15:03 2009
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From: "Peter Rybar" <rybar@nbusr.sk>
To: pkix@ietf.org
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:15:35 +0200
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Cc: peterryb@gmail.com, ESI@list.etsi.org, smime@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [smime] [pkix] I-D Action:draft-ietf-pkix-rfc3161-update-07.txt
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Stefan,

>Secondly, the issue is not whether to use ESSCertID or not.=20
>The Issue discussed in PKIX is the security considerations for using a =
hash stronger than SHA-1.

Yes, exactly I agree that discussion is about the impact of upgrade from =
ESSCertID to ESSCertIDv2. And for that reason this specific issue must =
be described carefully not to confuse people that the whole usage of =
ESSCertID/v2 is unimportant.

CMS signature (RFC 5652) when the ESSCertID/v2 is not used is open for =
many substitution attacks which are realizable with and also without a =
Malicious trusted CA.

Generally speaking if ESSCertID/v2 is not used in CMS, then the right =
public key for verification of signature must be selected according to =
test if the digital signature is correctly verified.

Without ESSCertID/v2 the connection of signer=E2=80=99s attributes with =
the public key is not protected and for that reason any kind of public =
key carries can be used e.g. certificates X509 v1...v5, PGP... Such =
unprotected connection of the signer=E2=80=99s attributes with the =
signer=E2=80=99s public key by CMS signer signature could cause many =
attacks. Two attacks which I have described are realized by trusted CA =
which is not Malicious. The number of possible attacks if the connection =
is not protected is endless. I have not mentioned e.g. the attack on =
identity in certificates where the certificates may be issued for =
different purposes with different identity values for the same public =
key. Another attack could be if the relying system accepts more than one =
CA and the attribute certificate connected with certificate issued in =
one CA can be accepted also if issued in the second CA, then by =
substitution attack you can achieve a granted access to some systems.

When the qualified certificates are used, then you can simply break the =
nonrepudiation of QES. If you have sent the same signature with the =
different certificate issued for the same public key to different =
organization, the legal action can be realized in a different way. If =
those organizations are not able to compare the QES signature, then =
nobody can detect such attack.
=20
I agree that the registration process could be a big hole if the =
registration person under some pressure/whish of external powerful group =
issues a qualified certificate with the identity of someone else for =
people from the powerful group, then the effect of QES acceptance in =
legal actions like selling the house could be catastrophic, but it must =
be solved pursuant to rules of the registration authority.

	Regards,=20
	Peter Rybar
	=20
	tel.: +421 2 6869 2163
	fax: +421 2 6869 1701
	e-mail: peter.rybar@nbusr.sk=20
	e-mail: peterryb@gmail.com
	http://elpi2.szm.com/


