From nobody Mon Feb 1 15:02:45 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smime@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: smime@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EB171B3864 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2016 15:02:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rSAHFFK6x3Mj for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2016 15:02:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x235.google.com (mail-qk0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF4171B385E for ; Mon, 1 Feb 2016 15:02:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x235.google.com with SMTP id s5so58443345qkd.0 for ; Mon, 01 Feb 2016 15:02:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sn3rd.com; s=google; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=tcnN+GGMLRo75Zjp2m5j/7HWZB87ElWPIqtZ0f1pUNM=; b=fToR5jBXC0nVkg1fVCcPoorK+azXdFkxPyLiWDgqZLQp6TcsBfw1N5wKxP/gQEPrfQ j1tpnakHkVf3g6dZiyWkk4dYNvcEkPKTgJ0A40Z1vjlibqIgWpac5WRbpk4hU/e46STz zCZTlBYH/6hjNSr4DKGDtnmVGMWqTyZ4ISBI4= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=tcnN+GGMLRo75Zjp2m5j/7HWZB87ElWPIqtZ0f1pUNM=; b=LSd+use8f1srFopnBbBEdfkw7vTues/G/FOFesD1vuIsDx4mNLp1FW5FRgd1eFKIEK jNiDjepV+xisVjSrdN8eH3Ll9bilGMw06XuyBZmNbNeDISWBNZ0d/9FMFGDKhkx8PjmG iioIhPYlwMnMESgapxmtdpqHqbFKqOc1P7bKLPZ0onK5/dw5io9byzJWW7yy2HYkgLl8 dn8uDCCCmt4AIfanwgmn0VzSC7RYi52gV4C2yhHIc7twEgC33DyHC+LqCa/iDQGPgJFw hfifkx7zBN22WRp/BAfdg54bjnF62kxS61Q+TwfMFN9yRg/2y8krNEQM7PqOv2eKZ6Sa KD+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOSnmDNJybLIKkDp+4LmmdsSBsGkH3vQGSrY1klCTcyaGBPJ3itxv1AMU2tn2a6izg== X-Received: by 10.55.56.134 with SMTP id f128mr31384383qka.92.1454367760180; Mon, 01 Feb 2016 15:02:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.0.112] ([96.231.217.211]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r76sm6975826qkl.32.2016.02.01.15.02.39 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 01 Feb 2016 15:02:39 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: Sean Turner In-Reply-To: <05a801d159ea$51ae6ce0$f50b46a0$@augustcellars.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 18:02:38 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <05a801d159ea$51ae6ce0$f50b46a0$@augustcellars.com> To: IETF SMIME X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [smime] Message takeover attacks against S/MIME X-BeenThere: smime@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: SMIME Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2016 23:02:43 -0000 I=E2=80=99m willing to help too, but it would be really great if we = could identity some folks who work on [insert your favorite mail app = with built-in S/MIME support] to also be involved. spt > On Jan 28, 2016, at 11:38, Jim Schaad wrote: >=20 > I am more than willing to help with this. I don't know if there will = be any > industry pickup but I think it does need to be done. >=20 > Jim >=20 >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: smime [mailto:smime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Russ Housley >> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 7:47 AM >> To: IETF SMIME >> Subject: Re: [smime] Message takeover attacks against S/MIME >>=20 >> I do not know of any user agents that can be configured to accept = only > intern >> message/rfc822 type, or even flag the difference to the user. Most = users > would >> not understand the flag if it was there. >>=20 >> I would like to know if there is enough energy to work on a = re-charter for > the >> SMIME working group and then produce an updated specification. If = there > is >> enough interest, Stephen Farrell is willing to sponsor the charter. >>=20 >> I am willing to work on it. >>=20 >> Russ >>=20 >>=20 >> On Jan 28, 2016, at 5:02 AM, Lijun Liao wrote: >>=20 >>> Indeed there are much simple ways to get the encrypted messages by > adding >> some header fields like Reply-To, Sender, To, CC, etc. Since these = header > fields >> are not cryptographically protected by the signature and encryption, = the >> recipient mail client is not able to detect the modification. If she > answers the >> email, a copy will be delivered to the attacker. >>>=20 >>> Sure the aforementioned attack can be HINDERED by the inline message > type >> message/rfc822 introducted in S/MIME v3.1. I use here the word HINDER >> instead of PREVENT due to the fact that the specification does not = prevent > the >> recipient client from using the outer header fields which are not > protected. By >> the way, not all of email clients (indeed I know none) can be = configured > to >> accept only intern message/rfc822 type. >>>=20 >>> Lijun Liao >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> smime mailing list >> smime@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smime >=20 > _______________________________________________ > smime mailing list > smime@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/smime From nobody Tue Feb 9 07:09:18 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: smime@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: smime@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55BA41A9109 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 07:09:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k23bbv3TGSvA for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 07:09:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org [192.52.194.136]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2E41A9118 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 07:09:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 58B796C04B6; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 10:09:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from imshyb01.MITRE.ORG (imshyb01.mitre.org [129.83.29.2]) by smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AA526C06E0; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 10:09:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from imshyb02.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.3) by imshyb01.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.2) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1130.7; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 10:09:12 -0500 Received: from gcc01-dm2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (10.140.19.249) by imshyb02.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.3) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1130.7 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 10:09:12 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mitre.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-mitre-org; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=EsYP5f5HQibsAU6z2JO2+9jib62vE/waHVMwzm9lYAc=; b=e5JRsC8MrncRvEuGVbrOChOjIFDFo1ZLJ4n3jtnD+ceYo3GhECa0BaB/fup9tC1OYc/ng1LCWT5WsH33y4KYlyTE4lpnqbVwMGnwZZkPAY9Hlslh6LDU2IN1Knx0gpIFto3V6Wn299aDqBuqYEWzrU9mmqzGisHdgPu8ntaEYt0= Received: from BY1PR09MB0920.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.162.144.157) by BY1PR09MB0917.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.162.144.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.403.16; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 15:09:11 +0000 Received: from BY1PR09MB0920.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.162.144.157]) by BY1PR09MB0920.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.162.144.157]) with mapi id 15.01.0403.017; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 15:09:11 +0000 From: "Miller, Timothy J." To: Wei Chuang , Eliot Lear Thread-Topic: [pkix] Is it time for a pkix extensions (or similar) wg? Thread-Index: AQHRYAxIK5WKIQlFM0OgvJf7FkckTJ8eCiUAgAE6g4CAAY6IgIABXMIwgAGVjgCAAA3NAIAAAOTA Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 15:09:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <56B48DED.5080202@cs.tcd.ie> <56B9F1F0.4010501@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: google.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;google.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=mitre.org; x-originating-ip: [192.160.51.86] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BY1PR09MB0917; 5:PwJh9etXpXa4qA8dWXUCJmygAzveznwHRMG16lixSt/r6PaaiYUXV7XlSkR9RMfVU7JkCRunQ/9gBEF9Yr+ohWFBhXzBPxgveYlMbOVuc1iqb9SHBhhvNYhlpLZZ2l2XMn2o6gpCaMQ4wpaErjW2nQ==; 24:Nj2hpBpP2v8p3WTHiP2RJr+yslMAx1Jhduwlzn1MPCBSXBCln04dSbKWiihvZ1EXe25w2wj/HQELwJ7I3wqM3Y3uytI8Qoaz6VU9zt8cMTU= x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BY1PR09MB0917; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c1dda946-bc3d-4908-869b-08d33162f77b x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(3002001)(10201501046); SRVR:BY1PR09MB0917; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BY1PR09MB0917; x-forefront-prvs: 08476BC6EF x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(5003600100002)(586003)(66066001)(5001960100002)(2906002)(6116002)(102836003)(1220700001)(40100003)(5008740100001)(122556002)(10400500002)(76576001)(11100500001)(3846002)(86362001)(1096002)(33656002)(54356999)(50986999)(74316001)(2900100001)(5004730100002)(189998001)(2950100001)(76176999)(87936001)(5002640100001)(106116001)(77096005)(3280700002)(92566002)(5001770100001)(3660700001)(99286002)(4326007)(93886004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BY1PR09MB0917; H:BY1PR09MB0920.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Feb 2016 15:09:11.5495 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: c620dc48-1d50-4952-8b39-df4d54d74d82 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY1PR09MB0917 X-OriginatorOrg: mitre.org Archived-At: Cc: Peter Bowen , IETF SMIME Subject: Re: [smime] [pkix] Is it time for a pkix extensions (or similar) wg? X-BeenThere: smime@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: SMIME Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 15:09:16 -0000 TW92ZWQgdG8gUy9NSU1FLg0KDQo+IEEgc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbiBhbGxvd3MgYSBzdGFydGluZyBw b2ludCBmb3IgYSBjb252ZXJzYXRpb24gYW1vbmdzdCB0aGUNCj4gaW1wbGVtZW50ZXJzLCBhbmQg YmV0d2VlbiB0aGUgaW1wbGVtZW50ZXJzIGFuZCB0aGUgQ0FzLiBXaXRob3V0IG9uZSwNCj4gd2Vs bCBhcyBpdHMgYmVlbiBwb2ludGVkIG91dCwgYWRvcHRpb24gb2YgUy9NSU1FIGhhcyBiZWVuIHBv b3IuICANCg0KQWRvcHRpb24gb2YgUy9NSU1FIGhhcyBiZWVuIHBvb3IgZm9yIGEgbnVtYmVyIG9m IHJlYXNvbnMsIG1haW5seSBiZWNhdXNlIChhKSBQS0kgY29uY2VwdHMgYXJlIGp1c3QgaGFyZCB0 byBncm9rLCBhbmQgKGIpIGl0J3MgYSBzb2x1dGlvbiBsb29raW5nIGZvciBhIHByb2JsZW0uDQoN Cj4JCQkJCQkJSW4gYW5vdGhlcg0KPiB0aHJlYWQgb24gdGhlIElFVEYgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0LCBm b2xrcyBhcmUgbGFtZW50aW5nIHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgaGFzbid0IGJlZW4NCj4gbXVjaCBwcm9ncmVz cyB3aXRoIGVtYWlsIGVuY3J5cHRpb24uICBXZWxsIGlzc3VlcyBsaWtlIHRoaXMgbGFjayBvZg0K PiBzcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9uIHdoaWNoIGxlYWRzIHRvIHBvb3IgdXNlciBleHBlcmllbmNlIHdpdGgg ZW5jcnlwdGVkIGVtYWlscyBhcmUNCj4gc29tZSBvZiB0aGUgcm9vdCBjYXVzZXMuDQoNCkVtYWls IGVuY3J5cHRpb24gaXMgZmFyIGZhciBGQVIgbW9yZSBoaW5kZXJlZCBieSB0aGUga2V5IGRpc2Nv dmVyeSwga2V5IG1hbmFnZW1lbnQsIGFuZCBncm91cCBrZXlpbmcgcHJvYmxlbXMgdGhhbiBieSB0 aGUgbmFtZSBtYXRjaGluZyBwcm9ibGVtLg0KDQotLSBUIA0K