From cabo@tzi.org Sat Nov 3 12:40:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D58321F9CC3 for ; Sat, 3 Nov 2012 12:40:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gGA7z0dQOqnF for ; Sat, 3 Nov 2012 12:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B717821F9CAF for ; Sat, 3 Nov 2012 12:40:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qA3JeF7p003214 for ; Sat, 3 Nov 2012 20:40:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-4161.meeting.ietf.org (unknown [130.129.65.97]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B6A3552A; Sat, 3 Nov 2012 20:40:14 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A640455E992@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 15:40:03 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20120917172028.27525.47640.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com><42D37B91-2042-4F8E-AFC7-2581C67A5022@tzi.org> <927C66C0775CCA43B88EB1E3006614B3BDE58C12@eu1rdcrdc1wx032.exi.nxp.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A640455E992@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> To: "solace@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Subject: Re: [solace] New Version Notificationfor draft-sarikaya-solace-setup-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2012 19:40:23 -0000 I think there are now enough people available at Sunday for a first = impromptu meeting. I would expect that to be at a brainstorming level, not a structured = formal meeting. I still have to find out about the room situation, but I'd like to fix a = time: -- Sunday, 2012-11-04 15:00 (eastern standard time!) somewhere in the = Hilton, room to be announced. (If all else fails, we can always hijack a table in the terminal room, = but I'd prefer a more socially acceptable place.) If we get done in an hour, great (so I can move on to the meet and = greet), but if we have more to discuss, we can do so until 17:00+ (when = the reception starts). -- Monday, 2012-11-05 11:45 (EST) I'd like to get some people together = for a lunch, again probably in/close to the hotel. So those of you who can't make the Sunday don't feel left out. And, yes, there will be more hallway discussions this week. E.g., I have maybe an hour after CoRE on Friday (flight leaves at = 17:30). Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From ulrich@herberg.name Sat Nov 3 19:45:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A163B21F955F for ; Sat, 3 Nov 2012 19:45:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qaZmPh6k0Uzq for ; Sat, 3 Nov 2012 19:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gh0-f172.google.com (mail-gh0-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02C8421F8785 for ; Sat, 3 Nov 2012 19:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-gh0-f172.google.com with SMTP id g10so880619ghb.31 for ; Sat, 03 Nov 2012 19:45:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herberg.name; s=dkim; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date :to; bh=ysfBQtyCwYvGxyWpMxqH192me1ZPTcx+yb534GL3oZg=; b=aEORFf5bCM/O6K42qmIExR+BqgY23DUxC2eudXVSbOGBRDlodHckG4lDFXtGSOMK7v cxfMeFk9l7wxcj1EXK02XroIPW/yK9nOQiFrQhZhJD/0RNu5bB1oQ28fHiQtJt0YmQri klCao/AiriaOvAobbwOJYKKG67hrQOcyvFPiI= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date :to:x-gm-message-state; bh=ysfBQtyCwYvGxyWpMxqH192me1ZPTcx+yb534GL3oZg=; b=UXqvwy163vDWvQYyAxTyIjjMMIAfGQuNlEtzu3AQUt1udJ+CKwCVMRsF9gSdc/vog5 b0moTnlAjfRJG4j6KhPpO5xdwagv4H/zqsPZOzCYZVajS1x0/iKQO0vNjgyMRh61wGbg tDwvQhJm0JsmYiUCkO2vUS1ZqRrci0D//pAhajm6HzArG0F/+D4/1d21VG8W+zSAkOw3 4WJL5PSFwBcfVyuiPcESBHGwzir7wAQUcQD/Y33PziRmusFGK4nqXdwnZzSttDw8B8RF RNTtYwD/DFt9c158bNznznNjx02yoAWmxMG3d+uPpOFXp75/hZcmG3rZL5xFJGHDQC5k 7M5A== Received: by 10.236.76.42 with SMTP id a30mr5751805yhe.50.1351997149466; Sat, 03 Nov 2012 19:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.28.175.207] ([12.43.43.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s21sm13920303yhb.5.2012.11.03.19.45.48 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 03 Nov 2012 19:45:49 -0700 (PDT) References: <20120917172028.27525.47640.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <42D37B91-2042-4F8E-AFC7-2581C67A5022@tzi.org> <927C66C0775CCA43B88EB1E3006614B3BDE58C12@eu1rdcrdc1wx032.exi.nxp.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A640455E992@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6C10CBCE-B6CE-4C6D-AF1C-B9BBFB87BB91@herberg.name> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10A403) From: Ulrich Herberg Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 22:45:49 -0400 To: Carsten Bormann X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlxl6l/39CF09nP4lg0eK6+gPoouUDkQCXGV2jJ1uWwy+y6rVeqNOsvIiv5cJNRb8KLqJ9/ Cc: "solace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [solace] New Version Notificationfor draft-sarikaya-solace-setup-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 02:45:50 -0000 Thanks for organizing this! Ulrich On Nov 3, 2012, at 15:40, Carsten Bormann wrote: > I think there are now enough people available at Sunday for a first improm= ptu meeting. > I would expect that to be at a brainstorming level, not a structured forma= l meeting. > I still have to find out about the room situation, but I'd like to fix a t= ime: >=20 > -- Sunday, 2012-11-04 15:00 (eastern standard time!) somewhere in the Hilt= on, room to be announced. > (If all else fails, we can always hijack a table in the terminal room, but= I'd prefer a more socially acceptable place.) > If we get done in an hour, great (so I can move on to the meet and greet),= but if we have more to discuss, we can do so until 17:00+ (when the recepti= on starts). >=20 > -- Monday, 2012-11-05 11:45 (EST) I'd like to get some people together for= a lunch, again probably in/close to the hotel. > So those of you who can't make the Sunday don't feel left out. >=20 > And, yes, there will be more hallway discussions this week. > E.g., I have maybe an hour after CoRE on Friday (flight leaves at 17:30). >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > _______________________________________________ > solace mailing list > solace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace From cabo@tzi.org Sun Nov 4 08:19:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD30E21F845E for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 08:19:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5VfiZFqVwB3i for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 08:19:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F049521F8590 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 08:19:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qA4GJ3WT003463 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 17:19:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-4161.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-4161.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.65.97]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9617D641; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 17:19:02 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 11:18:54 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <31103AB7-D23A-4E8E-B834-6EAF3C4F11B3@tzi.org> References: <20120917172028.27525.47640.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com><42D37B91-2042-4F8E-AFC7-2581C67A5022@tzi.org> <927C66C0775CCA43B88EB1E3006614B3BDE58C12@eu1rdcrdc1wx032.exi.nxp.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A640455E992@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> To: "solace@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Subject: Re: [solace] New Version Notificationfor draft-sarikaya-solace-setup-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 16:19:10 -0000 On Nov 3, 2012, at 15:40, Carsten Bormann wrote: > I still have to find out about the room situation, but I'd like to fix = a time: >=20 > -- Sunday, 2012-11-04 15:00 (eastern standard time!) somewhere in the = Hilton, room to be announced. > [...] > If we get done in an hour, great (so I can move on to the meet and = greet), but if we have more to discuss, we can do so until 17:00+ (when = the reception starts). We are meeting in Salon E (this is a bit big, but we will hunker down in = a corner). See you soon... Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From ulrich@herberg.name Sun Nov 4 12:08:27 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED60C21F87ED for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 12:08:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lu-OWr1RTCns for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 12:08:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pa0-f44.google.com (mail-pa0-f44.google.com [209.85.220.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36DCA21F87EA for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 12:08:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id fb11so3441596pad.31 for ; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 12:08:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herberg.name; s=dkim; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date :to; bh=IW9u0us1Ib5GVVI0OzcZCnR/Rfw+YQZuHqFO1gzZstM=; b=x45EjHmzrhgSTZZUPO4t0vz39Fla8hEeiKrURpIUB2Z75zYCW+PeeYPHsONB/86teW 9u4/Gfv2Eq5FgtiQq5mxlODgiNMocWQzwFLbcdutCvgzQnMhigIwuV314XJ2AOYquTAS RKkn2FxhJe0OaTQwUxzHKxxS9+xLk0j9qGN3Q= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date :to:x-gm-message-state; bh=IW9u0us1Ib5GVVI0OzcZCnR/Rfw+YQZuHqFO1gzZstM=; b=YK/rlLpWKj77xnP97GhMhHr77dBjTVPPHY1wLOKcBKizL/WieXq5ujtTbHsA+cgkNy wJpwlmaTgu+wIK9sENPBmwJ+MTo4qEMeqvbIrG4oYtjSf7d733Inx9uwhba3zzYnsOIM Rd9DkQVzref5hTSMCeaQ9f+c+gi8fp0KmAf7oU3Glk2QgemKNz/ws1s6oiLb1AT7CNq1 /C1z+yoq0dG9QAI+PZO0mtxYyjW+a0QupNLfAtgWLw9OXt2LtVCW4bVDMQRS+YoD+DBA D9qU7T7H7TUNBeZU8brUz6fJzugqEIVbOWxrLk342shm7Sqq+mjgYAqgoAKdIdJx/iee naNg== Received: by 10.66.73.34 with SMTP id i2mr22913550pav.28.1352059704214; Sun, 04 Nov 2012 12:08:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [130.129.19.44] (dhcp-132c.meeting.ietf.org. [130.129.19.44]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j9sm9361895pav.15.2012.11.04.12.08.22 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 04 Nov 2012 12:08:23 -0800 (PST) References: <20120917172028.27525.47640.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <42D37B91-2042-4F8E-AFC7-2581C67A5022@tzi.org> <927C66C0775CCA43B88EB1E3006614B3BDE58C12@eu1rdcrdc1wx032.exi.nxp.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A640455E992@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <07D7CE5C-5C6A-400E-BA47-902E9D888C18@herberg.name> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10A403) From: Ulrich Herberg Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 15:08:21 -0500 To: Carsten Bormann X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkuGYN4smZsfroS+xKUbFmGbjag5flbUo6pnOqrDkdpmvl6zJj1pLd6cNz+iWzKMFSBERdH Cc: "solace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [solace] New Version Notificationfor draft-sarikaya-solace-setup-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:08:28 -0000 Hi, in which room is the meeting? Thanks Ulrich On Nov 3, 2012, at 15:40, Carsten Bormann wrote: > I think there are now enough people available at Sunday for a first improm= ptu meeting. > I would expect that to be at a brainstorming level, not a structured forma= l meeting. > I still have to find out about the room situation, but I'd like to fix a t= ime: >=20 > -- Sunday, 2012-11-04 15:00 (eastern standard time!) somewhere in the Hilt= on, room to be announced. > (If all else fails, we can always hijack a table in the terminal room, but= I'd prefer a more socially acceptable place.) > If we get done in an hour, great (so I can move on to the meet and greet),= but if we have more to discuss, we can do so until 17:00+ (when the recepti= on starts). >=20 > -- Monday, 2012-11-05 11:45 (EST) I'd like to get some people together for= a lunch, again probably in/close to the hotel. > So those of you who can't make the Sunday don't feel left out. >=20 > And, yes, there will be more hallway discussions this week. > E.g., I have maybe an hour after CoRE on Friday (flight leaves at 17:30). >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > _______________________________________________ > solace mailing list > solace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace From cabo@tzi.org Sun Nov 4 12:09:40 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AEA421F87F5 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 12:09:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dtI868ZBkbuL for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 12:09:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 899DB21F87EA for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 12:09:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qA4K9UEX001059; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 21:09:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.11.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 311336B5; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 21:09:30 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <07D7CE5C-5C6A-400E-BA47-902E9D888C18@herberg.name> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 15:09:29 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1A1D3ED4-26A7-4D42-AF13-58A0B7C37641@tzi.org> References: <20120917172028.27525.47640.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <42D37B91-2042-4F8E-AFC7-2581C67A5022@tzi.org> <927C66C0775CCA43B88EB1E3006614B3BDE58C12@eu1rdcrdc1wx032.exi.nxp.com> <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A640455E992@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> <07D7CE5C-5C6A-400E-BA47-902E9D888C18@herberg.name> To: Ulrich Herberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "solace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [solace] New Version Notificationfor draft-sarikaya-solace-setup-framework-00.txt X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:09:40 -0000 On Nov 4, 2012, at 15:08, Ulrich Herberg wrote: > in which room is the meeting? Salon E From cabo@tzi.org Sun Nov 4 13:52:16 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E9D21F8667 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 13:52:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cw4oW2irnj-O for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 13:52:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF24421F85FD for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 13:52:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qA4Lq6Nf009837 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 22:52:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.11.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BAF5D6E4; Sun, 4 Nov 2012 22:52:05 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 16:52:04 -0500 To: "solace@ietf.org" Message-Id: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Subject: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 21:52:16 -0000 Sunday 2012-11-04 15:10-16:10 Salon E Attendance: Behcet Sarikaya Carsten Bormann J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lder Kerry Lynn Mehmet Ersue Paul Chilton Ulrich Herberg Yoshihiro Ohba This was an informal meeting that was intended to move forward our common understanding of what the SOLACE activity is going to be. Carsten went quickly through the slides from the Vancouver IETF (http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-roll-11.pdf). He stressed that the near term focus of SOLACE is soliciting contributions that provide a fleshed out view of the lifecycle, the players/roles and the security objectives of a specific scenario, together with the security protocols that can be used between specific roles to achieve these objectives. We then mainly discussed two topics: 1) What is the best home for SOLACE? One approach is to find a home in IRTF. Several participants agreed: -- this spans a couple of areas -- IRTF can work in a relatively "sheltered" way -- there may less of a need to go through an excruciating chartering process before we really understand the specific shape of the result that we can achieve Other participants pointed out: -- an IETF activity may be more focused on directly usable results -- there are specific gaps such as the OLSRv2 security model that need input soon -- there might even be a new M2M area in the IETF Clearly, there wasn't consensus yet, but some more people leaned towards the IRTF approach. This requires further discussion. Ulrich, Yoshihiro, and Carsten volunteered for working on a potential charter for a new group. 2) What are the specific questions we want to ask for the contributions? Questions that we would like to see covered in the contributions (in no particular order): -- What are the specific roles in this scenario? Groups of nodes may differ in their trust relationships, in their role in running the lifecycle, in their security domain, in their constrainedness, ... (e.g., in SEP2 a "meter" appears to be a very special role, having a trusted relationship to the backend, ...) -- what is the topology between these roles? (This may include both a security-focused point of view and a view based on physical, link-layer or network layer topology) -- What is the trust model? Specifically, what is the chain of trust needed for the system to operate, how do the different roles relate to the trust model; are there classes of trust based on some specific property (such as "inside"/"outside" something)? -- Is there anything done to secure group communications = (multicast/broadcast)? -- What are the elements of your lifecycle? Do you handle events like an entire building changing hands? -- How does your security really work, which security protocols are being used? -- What gaps are there? Where do we need additional specifications? -- Constrainedness? What are the resource requirements on the specific roles? What groups of nodes are there? We should try to obtain contributions at least from the following groups/for the following scenarios: -- SEP2 (may need to be fleshed out wrt key management) -- A simple home scenario that can be realized with PSKs -- Cullen's Mothership scenario -- ETSI M2M, maybe related to the EAP/PANA I-D and ETSI GBA -- MANET scenarios such as that addressed by OLSRv2 -- AMI networking Besides the I-Ds already identified, Kerry also has co-authored an interesting NIST paper that he will provide a reference to. At the SAAG meeting Thu 1510-1710, we have a short presentation slot. We should try to narrow down the set of choices so we can present something coherent to SAAG. The intention is providing a heads-up of the activity, and make it clear that this activity is not trying to threaten any specific security area work but tries to benefit as much as possible from existing results. Please send corrections and additions to these notes to the list. Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From sye.loong.keoh@philips.com Mon Nov 5 05:53:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A05E421F84F0 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 05:53:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7aQE+1PA5-da for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 05:53:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from tx2outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (tx2ehsobe004.messaging.microsoft.com [65.55.88.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A43721F84B8 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 05:53:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail7-tx2-R.bigfish.com (10.9.14.236) by TX2EHSOBE013.bigfish.com (10.9.40.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:53:56 +0000 Received: from mail7-tx2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail7-tx2-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D333320162; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:53:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.55.7.222; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:mail.philips.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -38 X-BigFish: VPS-38(zz217bI15d6O9251Jc89bh936eI168aJ542Mzz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzz1033IL17326ah8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839hd25hf0ah1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh1155h) Received: from mail7-tx2 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail7-tx2 (MessageSwitch) id 1352123635356535_32080; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:53:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from TX2EHSMHS033.bigfish.com (unknown [10.9.14.242]) by mail7-tx2.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A1291A0054; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:53:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.philips.com (157.55.7.222) by TX2EHSMHS033.bigfish.com (10.9.99.133) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:53:53 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MMR1-015.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.99) by 011-DB3MMR1-008.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.318.3; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:53:24 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MPN1-032.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([169.254.2.110]) by 011-DB3MMR1-015.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([10.128.28.99]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.003; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:53:23 +0000 From: "Keoh, Sye Loong" To: Carsten Bormann , "solace@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 Thread-Index: AQHNutaqghyWIMRs0kuA5Io23fGbUpfbRBuA Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 13:53:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.129.17.131] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 13:53:58 -0000 Dear all, Sorry that I couldn't make it to the informal SOLACE meeting yesterday. Carsten, I would also like to volunteer myself to work on a potential chart= er for a new group. Regarding the potential scenarios where we can derive requirements, I think= Building Automation System and BaCNET can be interesting for us too. Looking forward to discussing further with you all this week. Cheers Sye Loong -----Original Message----- From: solace-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:solace-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Carsten Bormann Sent: zondag 4 november 2012 22:52 To: solace@ietf.org Subject: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 Sunday 2012-11-04 15:10-16:10 Salon E Attendance: Behcet Sarikaya Carsten Bormann J=FCrgen Sch=F6nw=E4lder Kerry Lynn Mehmet Ersue Paul Chilton Ulrich Herberg Yoshihiro Ohba This was an informal meeting that was intended to move forward our common u= nderstanding of what the SOLACE activity is going to be. Carsten went quickly through the slides from the Vancouver IETF (http://www= .ietf.org/proceedings/84/slides/slides-84-roll-11.pdf). He stressed that the near term focus of SOLACE is soliciting contributions = that provide a fleshed out view of the lifecycle, the players/roles and the= security objectives of a specific scenario, together with the security pro= tocols that can be used between specific roles to achieve these objectives. We then mainly discussed two topics: 1) What is the best home for SOLACE? One approach is to find a home in IRTF. Several participants agreed: -- this spans a couple of areas -- IRTF can work in a relatively "sheltered" way -- there may less of a need to go through an excruciating chartering process before we really understand the specific shape of the result that we can achieve Other participants pointed out: -- an IETF activity may be more focused on directly usable results -- there are specific gaps such as the OLSRv2 security model that need input soon -- there might even be a new M2M area in the IETF Clearly, there wasn't consensus yet, but some more people leaned towards th= e IRTF approach. This requires further discussion. Ulrich, Yoshihiro, and Carsten volunteered for working on a potential chart= er for a new group. 2) What are the specific questions we want to ask for the contributions? Questions that we would like to see covered in the contributions (in no par= ticular order): -- What are the specific roles in this scenario? Groups of nodes may differ in their trust relationships, in their role in running the lifecycle, in their security domain, in their constrainedness, ... (e.g., in SEP2 a "meter" appears to be a very special role, having a trusted relationship to the backend, ...) -- what is the topology between these roles? (This may include both a security-focused point of view and a view based on physical, link-layer or network layer topology) -- What is the trust model? Specifically, what is the chain of trust needed for the system to operate, how do the different roles relate to the trust model; are there classes of trust based on some specific property (such as "inside"/"outside" something)? -- Is there anything done to secure group communications (multicast/broadca= st)? -- What are the elements of your lifecycle? Do you handle events like an entire building changing hands? -- How does your security really work, which security protocols are being used? -- What gaps are there? Where do we need additional specifications? -- Constrainedness? What are the resource requirements on the specific roles? What groups of nodes are there? We should try to obtain contributions at least from the following groups/fo= r the following scenarios: -- SEP2 (may need to be fleshed out wrt key management) -- A simple home scenario that can be realized with PSKs -- Cullen's Mothership scenario -- ETSI M2M, maybe related to the EAP/PANA I-D and ETSI GBA -- MANET scenarios such as that addressed by OLSRv2 -- AMI networking Besides the I-Ds already identified, Kerry also has co-authored an interest= ing NIST paper that he will provide a reference to. At the SAAG meeting Thu 1510-1710, we have a short presentation slot. We should try to narrow down the set of choices so we can present something= coherent to SAAG. The intention is providing a heads-up of the activity, = and make it clear that this activity is not trying to threaten any specific= security area work but tries to benefit as much as possible from existing = results. Please send corrections and additions to these notes to the list. Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten _______________________________________________ solace mailing list solace@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace ________________________________ The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p= rotected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addre= ssee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha= t any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is st= rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipien= t, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the= original message. From cabo@tzi.org Mon Nov 5 05:58:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F16121F8491 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 05:58:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3dAvH2dzetfr for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 05:58:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F29221F881E for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 05:58:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qA5DwTCL016362; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:58:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.11.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7BBA7F5; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:58:28 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:58:27 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <929D5C1C-5EF9-4827-B247-8F1F040F0F43@tzi.org> References: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> To: "Keoh, Sye Loong" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "solace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 13:58:37 -0000 On Nov 5, 2012, at 08:53, "Keoh, Sye Loong" = wrote: > Looking forward to discussing further with you all this week. So should we go forward with the lunch today? Or should we try to find some other time? Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Mon Nov 5 06:14:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CE9E21F8545 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 06:14:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.248, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b6KN3qow7feK for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 06:14:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3FCF21F8532 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 06:14:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3FAB20CA9; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:14:02 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YQHt5IblMjdq; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:14:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4382C20DA2; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:14:02 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8CCA422A50FD; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:14:03 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:14:03 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Carsten Bormann Message-ID: <20121105141403.GB69418@elstar.local> References: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> <929D5C1C-5EF9-4827-B247-8F1F040F0F43@tzi.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <929D5C1C-5EF9-4827-B247-8F1F040F0F43@tzi.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: "Keoh, Sye Loong" , "solace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:14:04 -0000 On Mon, Nov 05, 2012 at 08:58:27AM -0500, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Nov 5, 2012, at 08:53, "Keoh, Sye Loong" wrote: > > > Looking forward to discussing further with you all this week. > > So should we go forward with the lunch today? > Or should we try to find some other time? > My lunch slots are booked already for Mon-Wed. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From ulrich@herberg.name Mon Nov 5 06:39:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02B4B21F8661 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 06:39:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.641 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.641 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.335, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hXWuZ0TA1k4m for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 06:39:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vb0-f44.google.com (mail-vb0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 921A121F85B8 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 06:39:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vb0-f44.google.com with SMTP id fc26so6652077vbb.31 for ; Mon, 05 Nov 2012 06:39:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herberg.name; s=dkim; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=2lrQeZNgPVrLAvfxporC0gGd5oRnND5gd5FRDBsxXdg=; b=xqyTM8hWPvhuH2e8A1fW78OvRm9KMd6SRqHct9YgVcqkC6qaO0UXpcYlEt4Psaaxtc jzmmPuzjRj+Tj2hgHUXUmDLJqknkN52qYvYp+hw2or7xkhlVlZvtFUt8xB0e2jM2fewh wR0UpELKGEp5Y7o2z+QBQFCG8ntn/DhiCzcQo= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=2lrQeZNgPVrLAvfxporC0gGd5oRnND5gd5FRDBsxXdg=; b=bSu6D3WT5/qMuKnfftB6g/cwm3+WoAaynFRTgk6/atnWJwTTjkLLie3Omuco22Tb/E oAarf+CHCo9R/CdEsB6tRXa8GvxlBlk7YGbrtUBrMEeYk8PnTB8RLiesuGcn6aK5ohzN qxP4yn/aiVJJ26gXzd+Rpnd9J5OhnCRaWSSN1geqZrmNFhgHBoOUf91hLsa2kqgAz3nW l7CH2zmm30ziKLVCTILDi0V/+Iz2J1IyQEbMS9GuiatZjROvrDVPyeDCqp2w5xkLmQ6L tOXLZbEKa1KcFlEfr4LFanfCu7H3GCQ6PTSJbXapip1Qzj1i0z96drXVVvMIpBp0R9mk xn7w== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.150.82 with SMTP id x18mr9491853vcv.73.1352126367003; Mon, 05 Nov 2012 06:39:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.94.103 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 06:39:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20121105141403.GB69418@elstar.local> References: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> <929D5C1C-5EF9-4827-B247-8F1F040F0F43@tzi.org> <20121105141403.GB69418@elstar.local> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 06:39:26 -0800 Message-ID: From: Ulrich Herberg To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043c7c1ecbf3c404cdc073bf X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnhGSJvfyuHjOvotyBYINiduYOwaNzT+dGtM14PPTjayzeKzYCS/yfp/nXCQ8dxveOrcsY0 Cc: Carsten Bormann , "Keoh, Sye Loong" , "solace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:39:39 -0000 --f46d043c7c1ecbf3c404cdc073bf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Lunch will be difficult for me today. Ulrich On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 6:14 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Mon, Nov 05, 2012 at 08:58:27AM -0500, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > On Nov 5, 2012, at 08:53, "Keoh, Sye Loong" > wrote: > > > > > Looking forward to discussing further with you all this week. > > > > So should we go forward with the lunch today? > > Or should we try to find some other time? > > > > My lunch slots are booked already for Mon-Wed. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > _______________________________________________ > solace mailing list > solace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace > --f46d043c7c1ecbf3c404cdc073bf Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lunch will be difficult for me today.

Ulrich

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 6:14 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelde= r <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> = wrote:
On Mon, Nov 05, 2012 at 08= :58:27AM -0500, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> On Nov 5, 2012, at 08:53, "Keoh, Sye Loong" <sye.loong.keoh@philips.com> wrote:=
>
> > Looking forward to discussing further with you all this week.
>
> So should we go forward with the lunch today?
> Or should we try to find some other time?
>

My lunch slots are booked already for Mon-Wed.

/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49= 421 200 3587 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax: =A0 += 49 421 200 3103 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
_____________________= __________________________
solace mailing list
solace@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace

--f46d043c7c1ecbf3c404cdc073bf-- From cabo@tzi.org Mon Nov 5 06:42:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC0A921F85B8 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 06:42:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2pwl4pB5Xtcb for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 06:42:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F14A21F8728 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 06:41:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qA5EfpV8017528; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:41:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.11.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4AC0B15A; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:41:50 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20121105141403.GB69418@elstar.local> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 09:41:49 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> <929D5C1C-5EF9-4827-B247-8F1F040F0F43@tzi.org> <20121105141403.GB69418@elstar.local> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "Keoh, Sye Loong" , "solace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:42:06 -0000 On Nov 5, 2012, at 09:14, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >> So should we go forward with the lunch today? >> Or should we try to find some other time? >>=20 >=20 > My lunch slots are booked already for Mon-Wed. Given that so many people came yesterday, I was not expecting that = everybody who was present would come today. So this would be mainly for the benefit of the people who came in late = yesterday. We'll also have another sync point in the SAAG meeting. Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From sye.loong.keoh@philips.com Mon Nov 5 06:49:16 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9940521F8766 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 06:49:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.501, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aWofaQ-06Ey6 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 06:49:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from co1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (co1ehsobe004.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.180.187]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F149A21F875D for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 06:49:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail177-co1-R.bigfish.com (10.243.78.232) by CO1EHSOBE005.bigfish.com (10.243.66.68) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:49:15 +0000 Received: from mail177-co1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail177-co1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2095298017E; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:49:15 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.55.7.222; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:mail.philips.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -37 X-BigFish: VPS-37(zz217bI98dI15d6O9251Jc89bhd6eah542Mc85dh1432Izz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzz1033IL8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839hd25hf0ah1288h12a5h12bdh137ah1441h1504h1537h153bh1155h) Received: from mail177-co1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail177-co1 (MessageSwitch) id 1352126922787529_20894; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:48:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO1EHSMHS010.bigfish.com (unknown [10.243.78.254]) by mail177-co1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECF119000B7; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:48:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.philips.com (157.55.7.222) by CO1EHSMHS010.bigfish.com (10.243.66.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:48:40 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MMR1-022.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.105) by 011-DB3MMR1-007.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.57) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.318.3; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:48:22 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MPN1-032.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([169.254.2.110]) by 011-DB3MMR1-022.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([fe80::1113:17d7:70dc:6faa%11]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.003; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:48:20 +0000 From: "Keoh, Sye Loong" To: Carsten Bormann , Juergen Schoenwaelder Thread-Topic: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 Thread-Index: AQHNutaqghyWIMRs0kuA5Io23fGbUpfbRBuAgAABeYCAAARcgIAAB8KAgAABQpA= Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:48:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> <929D5C1C-5EF9-4827-B247-8F1F040F0F43@tzi.org> <20121105141403.GB69418@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.129.17.131] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_EAE29B174013F643B5245BA11953A1BE22303F84011DB3MPN1032MG_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com Cc: "solace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:49:16 -0000 --_000_EAE29B174013F643B5245BA11953A1BE22303F84011DB3MPN1032MG_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Carsten, Would be great if I can join you for lunch today to know more about the dis= cussion yesterday. Cheers Sye Loong -----Original Message----- From: Carsten Bormann [mailto:cabo@tzi.org] Sent: maandag 5 november 2012 15:42 To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Cc: Keoh, Sye Loong; solace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 On Nov 5, 2012, at 09:14, Juergen Schoenwaelder > wrote: >> So should we go forward with the lunch today? >> Or should we try to find some other time? >> > > My lunch slots are booked already for Mon-Wed. Given that so many people came yesterday, I was not expecting that everybod= y who was present would come today. So this would be mainly for the benefit of the people who came in late yest= erday. We'll also have another sync point in the SAAG meeting. Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten ________________________________ The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p= rotected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addre= ssee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha= t any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is st= rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipien= t, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the= original message. --_000_EAE29B174013F643B5245BA11953A1BE22303F84011DB3MPN1032MG_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Carsten,

 

Would be great i= f I can join you for lunch today to know more about the discussion yesterda= y.

 

Cheers

Sye Loong=

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Carsten Bormann [mailto:cabo@tzi.org]
Sent: maandag 5 november 2012 15:42
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder
Cc: Keoh, Sye Loong; solace@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85

 

On Nov 5, 2012, at 09:14, Juergen Schoenwaelder &= lt;j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de= > wrote:

 

>> So should we go forward with the lunch t= oday?

>> Or should we try to find some other time= ?

>>

>

> My lunch slots are booked already for Mon-We= d.

 

Given that so many people came yesterday, I was n= ot expecting that everybody who was present would come today.

So this would be mainly for the benefit of the pe= ople who came in late yesterday.

 

We'll also have another sync point in the SAAG me= eting.

 

Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten

 


The information contained in= this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable la= w. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the = intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message i= s strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended reci= pient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of= the original message.
 --_000_EAE29B174013F643B5245BA11953A1BE22303F84011DB3MPN1032MG_-- From mcr@sandelman.ca Mon Nov 5 07:17:41 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F6621F8711 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:17:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.954 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.954 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q9pA7EjQ453n for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.sandelman.ca (relay.cooperix.net [67.23.6.41]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AF4821F86AA for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (dhcp-1280.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.18.128]) by relay.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CA9C81AA for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:09:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (quigon.sandelman.ca [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BF05CA0BC for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:17:39 -0500 (EST) To: "solace@ietf.org" In-reply-to: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> References: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> Comments: In-reply-to Carsten Bormann message dated "Sun, 04 Nov 2012 16:52:04 -0500." X-Mailer: MH-E 8.3; nmh 1.3; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 22) Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 10:17:39 -0500 Message-ID: <24237.1352128659@sandelman.ca> From: Michael Richardson X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 07:19:18 -0800 Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:17:41 -0000 Carsten Bormann wrote: CB> -- Is there anything done to secure group communications CB> (multicast/broadcast)? I think that any specific session keying is out of scope. This is about building trust between objects and network controllers. -- Michael Richardson -on the road- From lars@netapp.com Mon Nov 5 07:26:16 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F9CD21F88A9 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:26:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.492 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.492 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.107, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZxWqcYSDPW-X for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:26:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.netapp.com (mx2.netapp.com [216.240.18.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C671921F8848 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:26:15 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.80,715,1344236400"; d="p7s'?scan'208";a="707141528" Received: from smtp1.corp.netapp.com ([10.57.156.124]) by mx2-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 05 Nov 2012 07:26:15 -0800 Received: from vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com (exchsmtp.hq.netapp.com [10.106.76.239]) by smtp1.corp.netapp.com (8.13.1/8.13.1/NTAP-1.6) with ESMTP id qA5FQEpf018672; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:26:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from SACEXCMBX01-PRD.hq.netapp.com ([169.254.2.216]) by vmwexceht01-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.106.76.239]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:26:14 -0800 From: "Eggert, Lars" To: Carsten Bormann Thread-Topic: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 Thread-Index: AQHNutarhs45Au1HOEGyiLH1vKfP75fb5DaA Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 15:25:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.104.60.116] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EA8844F3-7A2F-41A5-8EA9-30AAF411B619"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "solace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:26:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EA8844F3-7A2F-41A5-8EA9-30AAF411B619 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, just for the record, I'd be very supportive of seeing this under the = IRTF. But it's in the end obviously the call of the folks who will do = the work. Lars On Nov 4, 2012, at 16:52, Carsten Bormann wrote: > 1) What is the best home for SOLACE? >=20 > One approach is to find a home in IRTF. > Several participants agreed:=20 > -- this spans a couple of areas > -- IRTF can work in a relatively "sheltered" way > -- there may less of a need to go through an excruciating chartering > process before we really understand the specific shape of the > result that we can achieve >=20 > Other participants pointed out: > -- an IETF activity may be more focused on directly usable results > -- there are specific gaps such as the OLSRv2 security model that need > input soon > -- there might even be a new M2M area in the IETF >=20 > Clearly, there wasn't consensus yet, but some more people leaned > towards the IRTF approach. This requires further discussion. > Ulrich, Yoshihiro, and Carsten volunteered for working on a potential > charter for a new group. --Apple-Mail=_EA8844F3-7A2F-41A5-8EA9-30AAF411B619 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIMQDCCBUow ggQyoAMCAQICEFcfSRTG0jNknqb9LV9GuFkwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgd0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVT MRcwFQYDVQQKEw5WZXJpU2lnbiwgSW5jLjEfMB0GA1UECxMWVmVyaVNpZ24gVHJ1c3QgTmV0d29y azE7MDkGA1UECxMyVGVybXMgb2YgdXNlIGF0IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LnZlcmlzaWduLmNvbS9ycGEg KGMpMDkxHjAcBgNVBAsTFVBlcnNvbmEgTm90IFZhbGlkYXRlZDE3MDUGA1UEAxMuVmVyaVNpZ24g Q2xhc3MgMSBJbmRpdmlkdWFsIFN1YnNjcmliZXIgQ0EgLSBHMzAeFw0xMTEyMTAwMDAwMDBaFw0x MjEyMDkyMzU5NTlaMIIBDTEXMBUGA1UEChMOVmVyaVNpZ24sIEluYy4xHzAdBgNVBAsTFlZlcmlT aWduIFRydXN0IE5ldHdvcmsxRjBEBgNVBAsTPXd3dy52ZXJpc2lnbi5jb20vcmVwb3NpdG9yeS9S 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Nov 2012 07:30:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0390F21F8BE0 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:30:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qA5FUWL7013123 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:30:32 +0100 Received: from demuexc022.nsn-intra.net (demuexc022.nsn-intra.net [10.150.128.35]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qA5FUVdx013485; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:30:32 +0100 Received: from DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.128.18]) by demuexc022.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:30:20 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:29:45 +0100 Message-ID: <80A0822C5E9A4440A5117C2F4CD36A640460797C@DEMUEXC006.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <20121105141403.GB69418@elstar.local> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 Thread-Index: Ac27X9d2k3Ruo7WGRaqadu4oMRx/gwACoEGA References: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org><929D5C1C-5EF9-4827-B247-8F1F040F0F43@tzi.org> <20121105141403.GB69418@elstar.local> From: "Ersue, Mehmet (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" , "Carsten Bormann" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2012 15:30:20.0725 (UTC) FILETIME=[775EEE50:01CDBB6A] X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 1161 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1352129432-00006DFC-49D26C14/0-0/0-0 Cc: "Keoh, Sye Loong" , solace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:30:35 -0000 We have the OPS area directorate lunch on Monday. Cheers,=20 Mehmet=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: solace-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:solace-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext > Juergen Schoenwaelder > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 3:14 PM > To: Carsten Bormann > Cc: Keoh, Sye Loong; solace@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 >=20 > On Mon, Nov 05, 2012 at 08:58:27AM -0500, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > On Nov 5, 2012, at 08:53, "Keoh, Sye Loong" wrote: > > > > > Looking forward to discussing further with you all this week. > > > > So should we go forward with the lunch today? > > Or should we try to find some other time? > > >=20 > My lunch slots are booked already for Mon-Wed. >=20 > /js >=20 > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > _______________________________________________ > solace mailing list > solace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace From cabo@tzi.org Mon Nov 5 07:36:14 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9AA721F881E for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:36:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OqaOo9lyUBy1 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5BBB21F9035 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 07:35:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qA5FZUDq021684; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:35:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.11.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ED3861E1; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:35:29 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:35:27 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> <929D5C1C-5EF9-4827-B247-8F1F040F0F43@tzi.org> <20121105141403.GB69418@elstar.local> To: "Keoh, Sye Loong" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: solace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:36:15 -0000 On Nov 5, 2012, at 09:48, "Keoh, Sye Loong" = wrote: > Hi Carsten, > =20 > Would be great if I can join you for lunch today to know more about = the discussion yesterday. OK, let's meet up at the end of the apparea meeting (1 h from now) at = the front. Of course, everybody else who missed yesterday's discussion or just = wants to continue the chat is welcome. Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From cabo@tzi.org Mon Nov 5 08:19:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 415B021F87E0 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:19:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JXsQLvbWfgkl for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:19:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17ED021F87CF for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 08:19:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qA5GJNul015930; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 17:19:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.11.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 15F27275; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 17:19:22 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <24237.1352128659@sandelman.ca> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:19:19 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> <24237.1352128659@sandelman.ca> To: Michael Richardson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "solace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 16:19:31 -0000 On Nov 5, 2012, at 10:17, Michael Richardson wrote: >=20 > Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > CB> -- Is there anything done to secure group communications > CB> (multicast/broadcast)? =20 >=20 > I think that any specific session keying is out of scope. Good thing we don't have a scope yet :-) Good point, though. But I have a slightly different view of how we should be running this = first phase. > This is about building trust between objects and network controllers. (I don't know what a network controller is (we still need to define this = kind of term) -- that would be one probably of the "roles" that we find = out more about.) I see the objective of soliciting the contributions as follows: to = understand the lifecycle management in a number of solutions for = specific scenarios down to a level of technical detail that we can learn = from that and start to draw technical conclusions about them. For the soutions, it is certainly interesting to hear whether they can = manage trust relationships that make use of groups, and, if yes, how = they do that. So I would encourage the submitter to highlight this in their = contributions. Indeed, I would like to know how the solutions do the session keying, = and/or how flexible they are with respect to the protocols they use for = that. Now I agree that the specific ways to do session keying are likely to be = out of scope for any architecture we develop out of these contributions, = but without an existence proof I would feel uneasy about any solution = that claims to be able to manage lifecycles involving groups. Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From cabo@tzi.org Mon Nov 5 11:34:57 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5676A21F85B6 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:34:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FVhi6SWX0lr0 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:34:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744F621F85AD for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 11:34:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qA5JYnpO029151 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 20:34:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.11.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 15ACE37D; Mon, 5 Nov 2012 20:34:48 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:34:47 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <798E93FA-D981-4CD7-ABB7-8D9B696682E7@tzi.org> References: <105963F3-4106-43D4-8F63-5478B617BE36@tzi.org> <929D5C1C-5EF9-4827-B247-8F1F040F0F43@tzi.org> <20121105141403.GB69418@elstar.local> To: "solace@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Subject: Re: [solace] Notes from the SOLACE ad-hoc at IETF85 X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 19:34:57 -0000 On Nov 5, 2012, at 10:35, Carsten Bormann wrote: > OK, let's meet up at the end of the apparea meeting (1 h from now) at = the front. > Of course, everybody else who missed yesterday's discussion or just = wants to continue the chat is welcome. So we had a ~ one-hour lunchtime discussion today, too. Akbar Rahman Carsten Bormann *) Oscar Garcia-Morchon Stephen Chasko Sye Loong Keoh Yoshihiro Ohba *) *) =3D were present yesterday, too I din't take notes quite as diligently as yesterday. We went through the work ahead as it seems to materialize for a phase 1: -- come up with a call for contributions (which specifically lists the questions we ask) -> (November) -- solicit the contributions (Internet-Drafts) -> (maybe till January) -- sort and structure, define a common terminology (have a first Webex call maybe in January) -- maybe get some of the contributions to rev based on the emerging = terminology -- summarize and define work for phase 2 (Orlando IETF) We also discussed that we want to de-emphasize greenfield "architecture" work and make this more of a phenomenology of existing and emerging solutions. It is important that the solutions are actually described in the contributions in sufficient detail that we can do meaningful comparisons and derive architecture by detecting patterns. On the "how do we do this" side of things, I explained a bit how previous IRTF RGs have worked and how different they were. E.g., some of these actually went so far to produce their own protocol specifications. This is very likely not something we want to do. Next steps: 1) Go to the SAAG meeting on Thursday. 2) See list above. Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From cabo@tzi.org Wed Nov 7 09:46:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B4F021F8B76 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 09:46:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.178 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.178 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.071, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oVo3LLpvcH6l for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 09:46:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03F7F21F8B6C for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 09:46:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qA7Hk0k6000917 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:46:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.11.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3A3F980A; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:46:00 +0100 (CET) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 12:45:57 -0500 To: "solace@ietf.org" Message-Id: <17F77EDC-3726-4AF2-9848-1C98E3F98B7E@tzi.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Subject: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 17:46:12 -0000 The slides for my short report at tomorrow's SAAG meeting are up: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/85/slides/slides-85-saag-3.pdf (Disclaimer: These are presentation slides, not a presentation by = itself. So they make sense primarily in combination with what I'm going to say.) Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net Wed Nov 7 09:52:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 194CE21F8792 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 09:52:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4QwtPS9Sbwuv for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 09:52:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D59AE21F8A7F for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 09:52:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 07 Nov 2012 17:52:28 -0000 Received: from dhcp-12e2.meeting.ietf.org (EHLO [130.129.18.226]) [130.129.18.226] by mail.gmx.net (mp028) with SMTP; 07 Nov 2012 18:52:28 +0100 X-Authenticated: #29516787 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18opDJra74oQKlYwUV99uTaa0+dYpSwux1KjDCv9V M/iykTRus1Ooj7 Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 19:52:25 +0200 Message-ID: From: Hannes Tschofenig To: Carsten Bormann MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: solace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 17:52:35 -0000 SSBhbSB3b25kZXJpbmcgd2hldGhlciB5b3Ugd2FudCB0byBhZGQgYSBsaW5rIHRvIHRoZSBzbWFy dCBvYmplY3Qgc2VjdXJpdHkgd29ya3Nob3AuIEl0IGFsc28gdG91Y2hlcyBvbiBzb21lIG9mIHRo ZSBhc3BlY3RzIGFuZCBpbmZvcm1pbmcgdGhlIFNBQUcgYWJvdXQgdGhlIGV4aXN0ZW5jZSBvZiB0 aGUgcmVwb3J0IG1pZ2h0IGxlYWQgdG8gYSBmZXcgYWRkaXRpb25hbCByZXZpZXcgY29tbWVudHMu CgpJIGhhdmUgYSBmZXcgY29tbWVudHMgb24gdGhlIHNsaWRlLiBDb3VsZCB5b3UgZGlzdHJpYnV0 ZSB0aGUgUFBUIHZlcnNpb24uCgpDaWFvCkhhbm5lcwoKU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IEFTVVMgUGFkCgpD YXJzdGVuIEJvcm1hbm4gPGNhYm9AdHppLm9yZz4gd3JvdGU6Cgo+VGhlIHNsaWRlcyBmb3IgbXkg c2hvcnQgcmVwb3J0IGF0IHRvbW9ycm93J3MgU0FBRyBtZWV0aW5nIGFyZSB1cDoKPgo+aHR0cDov L3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9wcm9jZWVkaW5ncy84NS9zbGlkZXMvc2xpZGVzLTg1LXNhYWctMy5wZGYK Pgo+KERpc2NsYWltZXI6IFRoZXNlIGFyZSBwcmVzZW50YXRpb24gc2xpZGVzLCBub3QgYSBwcmVz ZW50YXRpb24gYnkgaXRzZWxmLgo+U28gdGhleSBtYWtlIHNlbnNlIHByaW1hcmlseSBpbiBjb21i aW5hdGlvbiB3aXRoIHdoYXQgSSdtIGdvaW5nIHRvIHNheS4pCj4KPkdyw7zDn2UsIENhcnN0ZW4K Pgo+X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KPnNvbGFj ZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKPnNvbGFjZUBpZXRmLm9yZwo+aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFp bG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zb2xhY2UK From rstruik.ext@gmail.com Wed Nov 7 12:33:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23ECF21F8B6E; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 12:33:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lAqZgtOxW5uT; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 12:33:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-f172.google.com (mail-ie0-f172.google.com [209.85.223.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F08D21F8A26; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 12:33:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f172.google.com with SMTP id 9so3422550iec.31 for ; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 12:33:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=YqX6XnR1cvI7f0nfzmAI2RsUyy/ha6+o+ky8N7Cy1nk=; b=k00zT4TpyzyyfH7g5qE+7saNCzdydDwFf6D/AojzrR5L3MRxspQCHciaZO7SWMzLiF NOoBK8S56OBjvrgEK7VfrXzqEr7+7Y5NPslRQLe0/7KxJ53/d6C63KTFVOqao84Dcr9S 6tN0qMwLzw18laB1EdUKARgAMyoctofmd3EqewFzLZjA8GQA78M1+1yGsz8ys16ls0Jw 3JqazgewdfQjmeYt4h/V8z+pdhde7TVR7Gu6g+h8MPWD+FnKQz9rDcpKCKqeKoGluatt LphO8JtcxOjaR3hpiUgOEZXVaMytLNTIGlULiF/7/sjc3XmmJgAWkg7XYqIKY3h2cLBG OIuw== Received: by 10.50.7.232 with SMTP id m8mr5810439iga.48.1352320382644; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 12:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (CPE0013100e2c51-CM001cea35caa6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.4.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gs6sm2902405igc.11.2012.11.07.12.33.01 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 07 Nov 2012 12:33:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <509AC579.3090301@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 15:32:57 -0500 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carsten Bormann References: <17F77EDC-3726-4AF2-9848-1C98E3F98B7E@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <17F77EDC-3726-4AF2-9848-1C98E3F98B7E@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "saag@ietf.org" , "solace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 20:33:04 -0000 Hi Carsten: Great to discuss some of these topics with SAAG. I believe it would have merit to take this on a more fundamental ITRF level, so as to prevent people throwing a single protocol at the topic area: all context needs to be defined here in a unified way. More importantly, though, this should become an effort aimed at wide-scale usability (the 50billion devices everyone seems to point to in presentations from time to time) Some brief comments: a) Deployment scenarios. I believe it would be a mistake to limit oneself to a single use case scenario. The proverbial light switch-lamp use case comes to mind, which would suffer from the often made assumption that one has a single, homogeneous trust domain (rather than a heterogeneous trust domain setting, where device roles etc are dynamic) and from small network size (after all, if internet of things will have 50 billion devices in 2020, then the avg network size *must* be large). This was the original approach within ZigBee all the way back in 2003, which - in my mind - set back the whole life-cycle management topic for years. By now (2012), there have been lots of studies into more realistic use cases with large-scale deployment by user groups, which do assume one can procure devices from mutually untrusted vendors, have many transitions in the supply-chain, may buy/sell/dispose of subsystems, etc. This all points towards heterogeneous trust models and very dynamic device behavior, without requiring centralized control flows involving a manufacturer (the latter is also undesirable from a survivability perspective). b) Trust life-cycle management. Please note that trust lifecycle management requires both crypto and security protocols (mechanical constructs) and constructs that take care of authorization decisions (initial authorization, changes to device role mapping, device replacement, etc.). The latter seems under-emphasized on the slides. This should include questions as to how to initialize 50 billion devices for virtually $0 apiece. c) Security objectives. An objective such as "not subject to a mass scale attack" would be hard to quantify in terms of required cryptographic assurances. Moreover, it seems to miss the point that some of these highly constrained networks are suppose to safeguard critical infrastructure (municipal water supply, hurricane prediction systems, etc.). In my mind, it would be a mistake to make this an exercise in toning down normal security requirements (under the pretext that this is only for "non-serious applications" (lamp-switch scenario again)). If one wants to get mass scale deployment of the 50 billion devices mark, one cannot aim for "crappy, but good enough" solutions, since no one in a position of accountability would sign off on these (lifes and jobs on the line if something goes wrong, so to speak). The good news is that most high-quality crypto that is also efficient and does not leave a huge implementation footprint is fast becoming a commodity (or is getting there). The bad news is that integration of individual crypto and security constructs *and* security policies that allow these to be woven into a unified, standardizable framework architecture is still far off from sufficient understanding, let alone support via standards (and often simply ruled out of scope, since a "convenient" way to lock out product from other vendors). == Weblink to NIST Cryptography for Emerging Technologies and Applications Workshop, Gaithersburg, MD, November 7-8, 2011 http://www.nist.gov/itl/csd/ct/ceta-workshop.cfm A very old IETF draft of potential interest - with requirements, spelling out crypto + policy requirements, etc. (true: 3yrs old draft [Nov 2009], but referring to needing a home with IETF in concluding section): http://tools.ietf.org/pdf/draft-struik-6lowapp-security-considerations-00.pdf On 11/7/2012 12:45 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > The slides for my short report at tomorrow's SAAG meeting are up: > > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/85/slides/slides-85-saag-3.pdf > > (Disclaimer: These are presentation slides, not a presentation by itself. > So they make sense primarily in combination with what I'm going to say.) > > Grüße, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > solace mailing list > solace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 From cabo@tzi.org Wed Nov 7 13:39:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB12D21F8C3E; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 13:39:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.181 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.181 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.068, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IgA0Dr6iCsc7; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 13:39:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E690321F8AD3; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 13:39:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qA7LcvPB015924; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 22:38:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.11.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 597108D5; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 22:38:56 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <509AC579.3090301@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 16:38:54 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <30433E6B-C9B9-4EDC-B2D5-1D042F8199AD@tzi.org> References: <17F77EDC-3726-4AF2-9848-1C98E3F98B7E@tzi.org> <509AC579.3090301@gmail.com> To: Rene Struik X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "saag@ietf.org" , "solace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 21:39:13 -0000 Hi Rene, good to hear from you. Clearly, we cannot stop at exactly one usage scenario. But I strongly believe we need to start with exactly one. When we have the contributions for that, we can probably ask much better = questions for the next round, where we will add scenarios. The slides are indeed more for SAAG and less for people who would focus = on the logistics of rolling out 50000000000 devices. SOLACE clearly goes beyond security, or we could do it right there in = the security area. The security objectives slides are divided into one for the specific = ones for a scenario and one for the general ones (one could say = "motherhood and apple pie" if they were better understood). Even if the = specific ones can be toned down, we still have the general ones, and = that includes avoiding susceptibility to mass attacks. (This is one of = the points that were made at the March SoS workshop.) And that is, very = much, the reason why compromising on security always leads to security = compromises. Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From robert.cragie@gridmerge.com Wed Nov 7 14:29:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E2121F8477 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 14:29:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.666 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.666 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.933, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5cgkE7TN03Hr for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 14:29:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail78.extendcp.co.uk (mail78.extendcp.co.uk [79.170.40.78]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB2C921F85C5 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 14:09:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from client-86-29-206-117.glfd-bam-2.adsl.virginmedia.com ([86.29.206.117] helo=[192.168.0.2]) by mail78.extendcp.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) id 1TWDoa-0002rD-2g for solace@ietf.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 22:09:43 +0000 Message-ID: <509ADC64.2040902@gridmerge.com> Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 22:10:44 +0000 From: Robert Cragie Organization: Gridmerge Ltd. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: solace@ietf.org References: <17F77EDC-3726-4AF2-9848-1C98E3F98B7E@tzi.org> <509AC579.3090301@gmail.com> <30433E6B-C9B9-4EDC-B2D5-1D042F8199AD@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <30433E6B-C9B9-4EDC-B2D5-1D042F8199AD@tzi.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030407070604080408000804" X-Authenticated-As: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 22:29:44 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030407070604080408000804 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 07/11/2012 9:38 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > Hi Rene, > > good to hear from you. > > Clearly, we cannot stop at exactly one usage scenario. > But I strongly believe we need to start with exactly one. > When we have the contributions for that, we can probably ask much bette= r questions for the next round, where we will add scenarios. +1. The premise for an effective usage scenario is that it is fully or=20 at least well understood otherwise it is not a usage scenario. It is all = very well theorising on a multitude of usage scenarios and saying they=20 are all important but unless they are proven to be relevant and the=20 particular issues are understodd, they lose their relevance as a usage=20 scenario. > > The slides are indeed more for SAAG and less for people who would focus= on the logistics of rolling out 50000000000 devices. > SOLACE clearly goes beyond security, or we could do it right there in t= he security area. +1. > > The security objectives slides are divided into one for the specific on= es for a scenario and one for the general ones (one could say "motherhood= and apple pie" if they were better understood). Even if the specific on= es can be toned down, we still have the general ones, and that includes a= voiding susceptibility to mass attacks. (This is one of the points that = were made at the March SoS workshop.) And that is, very much, the reason= why compromising on security always leads to security compromises. > > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > solace mailing list > solace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace > --------------ms030407070604080408000804 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIILUDCC BRowggQCoAMCAQICEG0Z6qcZT2ozIuYiMnqqcd4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwga4xCzAJBgNV BAYTAlVTMQswCQYDVQQIEwJVVDEXMBUGA1UEBxMOU2FsdCBMYWtlIENpdHkxHjAcBgNVBAoT FVRoZSBVU0VSVFJVU1QgTmV0d29yazEhMB8GA1UECxMYaHR0cDovL3d3dy51c2VydHJ1c3Qu Y29tMTYwNAYDVQQDEy1VVE4tVVNFUkZpcnN0LUNsaWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQg RW1haWwwHhcNMTEwNDI4MDAwMDAwWhcNMjAwNTMwMTA0ODM4WjCBkzELMAkGA1UEBhMCR0Ix 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Received: from mail-vc0-f172.google.com (mail-vc0-f172.google.com [209.85.220.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B984321F844A for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 14:35:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vc0-f172.google.com with SMTP id fl11so2268267vcb.31 for ; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 14:35:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herberg.name; s=dkim; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=xlhSX9Km5rH1B/H8wFpF3Y7p5l4CBP1LTKMdx1a+47s=; b=T6j+sOXJThdjzzGz0W+zVoAIm5QNJWVdKuM/DaqSwKoKT3TZnseMQR6jpQ2BZgXz73 y0elAzb1jjHXEapQBDQm8SMfZFAHDk2g0hRME6AkYHh4Ggn2SoAHAHcmqfGdP2HqB5Qc N4me93eItrVhmyWBQ0ggORCfk9TxAS3wagSBc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=xlhSX9Km5rH1B/H8wFpF3Y7p5l4CBP1LTKMdx1a+47s=; b=ZDaNJN5VN2Y2XJSRuZm1zqaHj7XefcCDskqFW4Bpv7lPZPih1nSvEYpCXT1ydwbY40 jty4m3XUdL7UP5aE+woUsupVnE0VWN6062xlymlv37wlaFdAM87VAgZnAzZFanQz300T tvMGM+KsZz9wiADB5WegorQv1Lwykn7r6fHe5BkNAw8rqXnvnmoSkvU/qbqMmpv1ZDLY fLqk+ZgTzx2SOsBQ04NeXbq6SC3jXb3WBJyPeTSdPOVIvywYoPf4feIJQzbcgN2EGlO5 9pdz0+xGlsHY9uAUvvd6nB3quJh4swO6KGuUokLbnT73JqjfcH8cUZ41w+VoRJX+5Vyi eY6w== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.89.146 with SMTP id bo18mr4735491vdb.33.1352327711118; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 14:35:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.94.103 with HTTP; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 14:35:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 17:35:11 -0500 Message-ID: From: Ulrich Herberg To: Hannes Tschofenig Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec50162b5d7564404cdef54e4 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk8Ksl7VCIWhVjZ9Yl1VYdcxYr9FBzUszRzzZ7D99/ZZQXgqXB+Ocvoznez9Ph8CboG567i Cc: Carsten Bormann , solace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 22:35:12 -0000 --bcaec50162b5d7564404cdef54e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the slides, Carsten. I agree, mentioning the security workshop is a good idea. Best Ulrich On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Hannes Tschofenig < hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote: > I am wondering whether you want to add a link to the smart object securit= y > workshop. It also touches on some of the aspects and informing the SAAG > about the existence of the report might lead to a few additional review > comments. > > I have a few comments on the slide. Could you distribute the PPT version. > > Ciao > Hannes > > Sent from my ASUS Pad > > Carsten Bormann wrote: > > >The slides for my short report at tomorrow's SAAG meeting are up: > > > >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/85/slides/slides-85-saag-3.pdf > > > >(Disclaimer: These are presentation slides, not a presentation by itself= . > >So they make sense primarily in combination with what I'm going to say.) > > > >Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten > > > >_______________________________________________ > >solace mailing list > >solace@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace > _______________________________________________ > solace mailing list > solace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace > --bcaec50162b5d7564404cdef54e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the slides, Carsten.

I agree, mentioning the = security workshop is a good idea.

Best
U= lrich

On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Ha= nnes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net> wrote:
I am wondering whether you want to add a lin= k to the smart object security workshop. It also touches on some of the asp= ects and informing the SAAG about the existence of the report might lead to= a few additional review comments.

I have a few comments on the slide. Could you distribute the PPT version.
Ciao
Hannes

Sent from my ASUS Pad

Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wr= ote:

>The slides for my short report at tomorrow's SAAG meeting are up: >
>http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/85/slides/slides-85-s= aag-3.pdf
>
>(Disclaimer: These are presentation slides, not a presentation by itsel= f.
>So they make sense primarily in combination with what I'm going to = say.)
>
>Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten
>
>_______________________________________________
>solace mailing list
>solace@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace
_______________________________________________
solace mailing list
solace@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace

--bcaec50162b5d7564404cdef54e4-- From rstruik.ext@gmail.com Wed Nov 7 15:29:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC2FF21F8B7E for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:29:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lumf3Yv6VjKA for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:29:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ia0-f172.google.com (mail-ia0-f172.google.com [209.85.210.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C34EA21F8B82 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:29:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ia0-f172.google.com with SMTP id x24so1697730iak.31 for ; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 15:29:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=hPhQ7EVkRkiobGqAxwLPg38hjHntidnpYQWsdRUzO6U=; b=ekaWeWyMcElQvhiWSf+KdQJK6feASDLC5ItumNiREhxn5zBpKi94FTkr4Mbs+sSuTH XC0HpksdYXTPK3ytBRlNxjq5MFN9fU4jAtYf7uYEFt6iTqEjLPNLPy6hQSB/k4Svt2Us ye/6ZOX9VO7jNKY9E16asaS1MK+4MD/FSU9wbBTsTOLBcmQiE2ROatirrt4S9oHiU4Oc IVA02oRBE4+Mwm59FlJjyeiqlTzU21txtyG69xpX5d53mNoWIXeRL69zVypyhPT0YLvz R/clCd3pQ3U3g813Qz8ltSe7GwqYk/zql1egj5zcNQ5jJfi/kXK205hnPRR0y5Yz5sWU +7nQ== Received: by 10.42.68.203 with SMTP id y11mr5623507ici.26.1352330984436; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 15:29:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (CPE0013100e2c51-CM001cea35caa6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.4.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id az4sm3300430igb.2.2012.11.07.15.29.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 07 Nov 2012 15:29:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <509AEEE2.6000102@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 18:29:38 -0500 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com References: <17F77EDC-3726-4AF2-9848-1C98E3F98B7E@tzi.org> <509AC579.3090301@gmail.com> <30433E6B-C9B9-4EDC-B2D5-1D042F8199AD@tzi.org> <509ADC64.2040902@gridmerge.com> In-Reply-To: <509ADC64.2040902@gridmerge.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080801040206020306010901" Cc: solace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 23:29:48 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080801040206020306010901 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit _Dear colleagues: _ _ _ _What about starting with the following use case scenario, which was one of the scenarios brought up by user community (Shell, in this case) in industrial control network setting? _ _ _ _Scenario 1:_ ·Plant X wants to install a wireless sensor network to measure 5 pressure and 5 temperature points. One gateway. That gateway to connect to the legacy wired infrastructure. Plant X now has a DCS system with an Ethernet L2 network. Plant X likes to buy pressure instruments from vendor A, and temperature instruments from B. Gateways for G. ·Plant X uses contractor C for installation and commissioning. Scenario 1b would now include realization that contractor C turns out not to be that trust worthy and threatens to throw installation info on the street, unless a $1m amount is being paid to an offshore account. I believe this should not be "too theoretical" (??). Rene On 11/7/2012 5:10 PM, Robert Cragie wrote: > > On 07/11/2012 9:38 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> Hi Rene, >> >> good to hear from you. >> >> Clearly, we cannot stop at exactly one usage scenario. >> But I strongly believe we need to start with exactly one. >> When we have the contributions for that, we can probably ask much >> better questions for the next round, where we will add scenarios. > +1. The premise for an effective usage scenario is that it is fully or > at least well understood otherwise it is not a usage scenario. It is > all very well theorising on a multitude of usage scenarios and saying > they are all important but unless they are proven to be relevant and > the particular issues are understodd, they lose their relevance as a > usage scenario. >> >> The slides are indeed more for SAAG and less for people who would >> focus on the logistics of rolling out 50000000000 devices. >> SOLACE clearly goes beyond security, or we could do it right there in >> the security area. > +1. >> >> The security objectives slides are divided into one for the specific >> ones for a scenario and one for the general ones (one could say >> "motherhood and apple pie" if they were better understood). Even if >> the specific ones can be toned down, we still have the general ones, >> and that includes avoiding susceptibility to mass attacks. (This is >> one of the points that were made at the March SoS workshop.) And >> that is, very much, the reason why compromising on security always >> leads to security compromises. >> >> Grüße, Carsten >> >> _______________________________________________ >> solace mailing list >> solace@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > solace mailing list > solace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 --------------080801040206020306010901 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear colleagues:


What about starting with the following use case scenario, which was one of the scenarios brought up by user community (Shell, in this case) in industrial control network setting?


Scenario 1:

·         Plant X wants to install a wireless sensor network to measure 5 pressure and 5 temperature points. One gateway. That gateway to connect to the legacy wired infrastructure. Plant X now has a DCS system with an Ethernet L2 network. Plant X likes to buy pressure instruments from vendor A, and temperature instruments from B. Gateways for G.

·         Plant X uses contractor C for installation and commissioning.

 

Scenario 1b would now include realization that contractor C turns out not to be that trust worthy and threatens to throw installation info on the street, unless a $1m amount is being paid to an offshore account.



I believe this should not be "too theoretical" (??).


Rene

On 11/7/2012 5:10 PM, Robert Cragie wrote:

On 07/11/2012 9:38 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote:
Hi Rene,

good to hear from you.

Clearly, we cannot stop at exactly one usage scenario.
But I strongly believe we need to start with exactly one.
When we have the contributions for that, we can probably ask much better questions for the next round, where we will add scenarios.
+1. The premise for an effective usage scenario is that it is fully or at least well understood otherwise it is not a usage scenario. It is all very well theorising on a multitude of usage scenarios and saying they are all important but unless they are proven to be relevant and the particular issues are understodd, they lose their relevance as a usage scenario.

The slides are indeed more for SAAG and less for people who would focus on the logistics of rolling out 50000000000 devices.
SOLACE clearly goes beyond security, or we could do it right there in the security area.
+1.

The security objectives slides are divided into one for the specific ones for a scenario and one for the general ones (one could say "motherhood and apple pie" if they were better understood).  Even if the specific ones can be toned down, we still have the general ones, and that includes avoiding susceptibility to mass attacks.  (This is one of the points that were made at the March SoS workshop.)  And that is, very much, the reason why compromising on security always leads to security compromises.

Grüße, Carsten

_______________________________________________
solace mailing list
solace@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace 





_______________________________________________
solace mailing list
solace@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace



-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363
--------------080801040206020306010901-- From cabo@tzi.org Wed Nov 7 15:36:40 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E1021F8B6E for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:36:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.187 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.187 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.062, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WzJ2d5+V-m0P for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:36:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FDD121F8B69 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 15:36:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qA7NaTLO003648; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 00:36:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9336.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.11.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 41C6790C; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 00:36:28 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <509AEEE2.6000102@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:36:26 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1706388E-C26A-4665-B9EF-E502CC71B6CF@tzi.org> References: <17F77EDC-3726-4AF2-9848-1C98E3F98B7E@tzi.org> <509AC579.3090301@gmail.com> <30433E6B-C9B9-4EDC-B2D5-1D042F8199AD@tzi.org> <509ADC64.2040902@gridmerge.com> <509AEEE2.6000102@gmail.com> To: Rene Struik X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com, solace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 23:36:41 -0000 On Nov 7, 2012, at 18:29, Rene Struik wrote: > industrial control Too easy. This is usually a highly controlled environment, where there already are = defined business relationships. Try a home occupied with a family with a 13-year old son, where the = lifecycle later involves, say, a divorce and a foreclosure. (I like the industrial scenario, but I think we should do that later.) Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten From rstruik.ext@gmail.com Wed Nov 7 16:20:57 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 356EE21F8BF0 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 16:20:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gtr6kcJTXSjV for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 16:20:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-f172.google.com (mail-ie0-f172.google.com [209.85.223.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDE7121F8BDA for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 16:20:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f172.google.com with SMTP id 9so3749405iec.31 for ; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 16:20:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=A18FB6G/mePEzg1RZYVjvKi0oqW3TQTo0uBvBtHVMzo=; b=dukeZx7ukrj6tkkg7Mk8wIOlpkM8upPmDIPenw04ma6t82jAuw/j8kraIFwTYpTsFF deLfEuSL1gIkY4GVwcOJujsbYuZNvbJmkwcMapqRSiLGxVDL2CkPh6KJaCRS/Jy/dGvz DeRGw2yd1ksoZ3CUEXXBRMubQ4RwtwBkKUrEotuuMZMPumFFF4rsfzm/0ZZMh0Jlly6W rmrR2Dc7CVdzPokTRWY4DZL1bEA4uw8vygFR8+CG5qSqsumQ3HyGrLBnh/POEMedfLFM DHzr0BITB3lv+TUafwRwTO2my15WhLcPgVaGJhvv9DQ4+LO0ciqGy1JmwTaHfW1g/oJD UEaA== Received: by 10.50.157.162 with SMTP id wn2mr6599641igb.27.1352334055578; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 16:20:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (CPE0013100e2c51-CM001cea35caa6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.4.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id xn10sm3202155igb.4.2012.11.07.16.20.53 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 07 Nov 2012 16:20:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <509AFAE1.1040707@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 19:20:49 -0500 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com References: <17F77EDC-3726-4AF2-9848-1C98E3F98B7E@tzi.org> <509AC579.3090301@gmail.com> <30433E6B-C9B9-4EDC-B2D5-1D042F8199AD@tzi.org> <509ADC64.2040902@gridmerge.com> <509AEEE2.6000102@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <509AEEE2.6000102@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070608020706070908020401" Cc: solace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 00:20:57 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070608020706070908020401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Carsten: If this sounds too easy, just because I put the word "industrial control" in the title, please abstract this a little bit and apply other nomenclature. If it is still too easy, then just provide a good description and a proposed approach and collect your price money. Then, we can move on to what you believe would be more difficult. I do claim that the scenario I described captures lots of aspects that are necessary to get to anything meaningful for internet of things scenarios. Not everything is a home scenario (plus: if all networks are home-size with debt-laden households, one never gets to the 50billion device numbers. Moreover, we also do not harness the power of wireless to assist in addressing huge societal problems). What scenario do you suggest yourself: more than hub-and-spoke, all shrink-wrapped, I hope? Rene ------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:36:26 -0500 From: Carsten Bormann To: Rene Struik CC: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com, solace@ietf.org On Nov 7, 2012, at 18:29, Rene Struik wrote: > industrial control Too easy. This is usually a highly controlled environment, where there already are defined business relationships. Try a home occupied with a family with a 13-year old son, where the lifecycle later involves, say, a divorce and a foreclosure. (I like the industrial scenario, but I think we should do that later.) Grüße, Carsten On 11/7/2012 6:29 PM, Rene Struik wrote: > > _Dear colleagues: > _ > > _ > _ > > _What about starting with the following use case scenario, which was > one of the scenarios brought up by user community (Shell, in this > case) in industrial control network setting? > _ > > _ > _ > > _Scenario 1:_ > > ·Plant X wants to install a wireless sensor network to measure 5 > pressure and 5 temperature points. One gateway. That gateway to > connect to the legacy wired infrastructure. Plant X now has a DCS > system with an Ethernet L2 network. Plant X likes to buy pressure > instruments from vendor A, and temperature instruments from B. > Gateways for G. > > ·Plant X uses contractor C for installation and commissioning. > > Scenario 1b would now include realization that contractor C turns out > not to be that trust worthy and threatens to throw installation info > on the street, unless a $1m amount is being paid to an offshore account. > > > > I believe this should not be "too theoretical" (??). > > > Rene > > On 11/7/2012 5:10 PM, Robert Cragie wrote: >> >> On 07/11/2012 9:38 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >>> Hi Rene, >>> >>> good to hear from you. >>> >>> Clearly, we cannot stop at exactly one usage scenario. >>> But I strongly believe we need to start with exactly one. >>> When we have the contributions for that, we can probably ask much >>> better questions for the next round, where we will add scenarios. >> +1. The premise for an effective usage scenario is that it is fully >> or at least well understood otherwise it is not a usage scenario. It >> is all very well theorising on a multitude of usage scenarios and >> saying they are all important but unless they are proven to be >> relevant and the particular issues are understodd, they lose their >> relevance as a usage scenario. >>> >>> The slides are indeed more for SAAG and less for people who would >>> focus on the logistics of rolling out 50000000000 devices. >>> SOLACE clearly goes beyond security, or we could do it right there >>> in the security area. >> +1. >>> >>> The security objectives slides are divided into one for the specific >>> ones for a scenario and one for the general ones (one could say >>> "motherhood and apple pie" if they were better understood). Even if >>> the specific ones can be toned down, we still have the general ones, >>> and that includes avoiding susceptibility to mass attacks. (This is >>> one of the points that were made at the March SoS workshop.) And >>> that is, very much, the reason why compromising on security always >>> leads to security compromises. >>> >>> Grüße, Carsten >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> solace mailing list >>> solace@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> solace mailing list >> solace@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace > > > -- > email:rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik > cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 --------------070608020706070908020401 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Carsten:

If this sounds too easy, just because I put the word "industrial control" in the title, please abstract this a little bit and apply other nomenclature. If it is still too easy, then just provide a good description and a proposed approach and collect your price money. Then, we can move on to what you believe would be more difficult. I do claim that the scenario I described captures lots of aspects that are necessary to get to anything meaningful for internet of things scenarios. Not everything is a home scenario (plus: if all networks are home-size with debt-laden households, one never gets to the 50billion device numbers. Moreover, we also do not harness the power of wireless to assist in addressing huge societal problems).

What scenario do you suggest yourself: more than hub-and-spoke, all shrink-wrapped, I hope?

Rene

------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:36:26 -0500
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
To: Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com>
CC: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com, solace@ietf.org 


On Nov 7, 2012, at 18:29, Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com> wrote:

> industrial control

Too easy.

This is usually a highly controlled environment, where there already are defined business relationships.

Try a home occupied with a family with a 13-year old son, where the lifecycle later involves, say, a divorce and a foreclosure.

(I like the industrial scenario, but I think we should do that later.)

Grüße, Carsten


On 11/7/2012 6:29 PM, Rene Struik wrote:

Dear colleagues:


What about starting with the following use case scenario, which was one of the scenarios brought up by user community (Shell, in this case) in industrial control network setting?


Scenario 1:

·         Plant X wants to install a wireless sensor network to measure 5 pressure and 5 temperature points. One gateway. That gateway to connect to the legacy wired infrastructure. Plant X now has a DCS system with an Ethernet L2 network. Plant X likes to buy pressure instruments from vendor A, and temperature instruments from B. Gateways for G.

·         Plant X uses contractor C for installation and commissioning.

 

Scenario 1b would now include realization that contractor C turns out not to be that trust worthy and threatens to throw installation info on the street, unless a $1m amount is being paid to an offshore account.



I believe this should not be "too theoretical" (??).


Rene

On 11/7/2012 5:10 PM, Robert Cragie wrote:

On 07/11/2012 9:38 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote:
Hi Rene,

good to hear from you.

Clearly, we cannot stop at exactly one usage scenario.
But I strongly believe we need to start with exactly one.
When we have the contributions for that, we can probably ask much better questions for the next round, where we will add scenarios.
+1. The premise for an effective usage scenario is that it is fully or at least well understood otherwise it is not a usage scenario. It is all very well theorising on a multitude of usage scenarios and saying they are all important but unless they are proven to be relevant and the particular issues are understodd, they lose their relevance as a usage scenario.

The slides are indeed more for SAAG and less for people who would focus on the logistics of rolling out 50000000000 devices.
SOLACE clearly goes beyond security, or we could do it right there in the security area.
+1.

The security objectives slides are divided into one for the specific ones for a scenario and one for the general ones (one could say "motherhood and apple pie" if they were better understood).  Even if the specific ones can be toned down, we still have the general ones, and that includes avoiding susceptibility to mass attacks.  (This is one of the points that were made at the March SoS workshop.)  And that is, very much, the reason why compromising on security always leads to security compromises.

Grüße, Carsten

_______________________________________________
solace mailing list
solace@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace 





_______________________________________________
solace mailing list
solace@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace



-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363


-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363
--------------070608020706070908020401-- From robert.cragie@gridmerge.com Wed Nov 7 16:33:04 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C1F921F8AE7 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 16:33:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.621, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EOrIo9IAodTd for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 16:33:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail78.extendcp.co.uk (mail78.extendcp.co.uk [79.170.40.78]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2102321F8ADD for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 16:33:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from client-86-29-206-117.glfd-bam-2.adsl.virginmedia.com ([86.29.206.117] helo=[192.168.0.2]) by mail78.extendcp.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) id 1TWG3I-0003ES-GY for solace@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 00:33:01 +0000 Message-ID: <509AFDFF.5030505@gridmerge.com> Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 00:34:07 +0000 From: Robert Cragie Organization: Gridmerge Ltd. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: solace@ietf.org References: <17F77EDC-3726-4AF2-9848-1C98E3F98B7E@tzi.org> <509AC579.3090301@gmail.com> <30433E6B-C9B9-4EDC-B2D5-1D042F8199AD@tzi.org> <509ADC64.2040902@gridmerge.com> <509AEEE2.6000102@gmail.com> <1706388E-C26A-4665-B9EF-E502CC71B6CF@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <1706388E-C26A-4665-B9EF-E502CC71B6CF@tzi.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms060905020502020200070307" X-Authenticated-As: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 00:33:04 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms060905020502020200070307 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060407040901040101000509" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060407040901040101000509 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think the point is you could choose any number of scenarios and=20 providing they are well-researched and understood, any of them would=20 serve as a starting point. Where it starts to go wrong IMHO is trying to = start with a number of disparate scenarios and in the first analysis=20 phase trying to distil some common understanding and architecture from=20 all of them. I think it makes more sense to start with one and I think=20 that Carsten's suggestion is more representative of the challenges=20 facing device lifecycle and is therefore a good starting point. I would then move forward in an incremental fashion whereby at each=20 increment we: 1. Introduce a new scenarios 2. Aim to describe it using the architectural concepts developed for the previous scenarios 3. Refine the architectural concepts Robert On 07/11/2012 11:36 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On Nov 7, 2012, at 18:29, Rene Struik wrote: > >> industrial control > Too easy. > > This is usually a highly controlled environment, where there already ar= e defined business relationships. > > Try a home occupied with a family with a 13-year old son, where the lif= ecycle later involves, say, a divorce and a foreclosure. > > (I like the industrial scenario, but I think we should do that later.) > > Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > solace mailing list > solace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace > --------------060407040901040101000509 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think the point is you could choose any number of scenarios and providing they are well-researched and understood, any of them would serve as a starting point. Where it starts to go wrong IMHO is trying to start with a number of disparate scenarios and in the first analysis phase trying to distil some common understanding and architecture from all of them. I think it makes more sense to start with one and I think that Carsten's suggestion is more representative of the challenges facing device lifecycle and is therefore a good starting point.

I would then move forward in an incremental fashion whereby at each increment we:

  1. Introduce a new scenarios
  2. Aim to describe it using the architectural concepts developed for the previous scenarios
  3. Refine the architectural concepts
Robert

On 07/11/2012 11:36 PM, Carsten Borman= n wrote:
On Nov 7, 2012, at 18:29, Rene Struik <rstruik.ex=
t@gmail.com> wrote:


industrial control

Too easy.

This is usually a highly controlled environment, where there already are =
defined business relationships.

Try a home occupied with a family with a 13-year old son, where the lifec=
ycle later involves, say, a divorce and a foreclosure.

(I like the industrial scenario, but I think we should do that later.)

Grüße, Carsten

_______________________________________________
solace mailing list
sol=
ace@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace

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--------------ms060905020502020200070307-- From sye.loong.keoh@philips.com Wed Nov 7 18:35:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF6F21F8A7E for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:35:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.348 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.348 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.750, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0y0TArE0cCYS for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:35:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from co1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (co1ehsobe003.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.180.186]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C4121F8A78 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:35:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail67-co1-R.bigfish.com (10.243.78.227) by CO1EHSOBE008.bigfish.com (10.243.66.71) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 02:35:33 +0000 Received: from mail67-co1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail67-co1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DBEB801D7 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 02:35:33 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.55.7.222; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:mail.philips.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -30 X-BigFish: VPS-30(zzbb2dI217bI98dI15d6O9371I9251Jc89bhc85dh1418Izz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzz1033IL8275bh8275dhz2dh2a8h668h839hd25hf0ah1288h12a5h12bdh137ah1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0l1155h) Received: from mail67-co1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail67-co1 (MessageSwitch) id 1352342131822916_11907; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 02:35:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO1EHSMHS005.bigfish.com (unknown [10.243.78.230]) by mail67-co1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD89280005D for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 02:35:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.philips.com (157.55.7.222) by CO1EHSMHS005.bigfish.com (10.243.66.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 02:35:31 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MMR1-015.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.99) by 011-DB3MMR1-005.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com (10.128.28.55) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.318.3; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 02:35:25 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MPN1-032.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([169.254.2.110]) by 011-DB3MMR1-015.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([10.128.28.99]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.003; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 02:35:21 +0000 From: "Keoh, Sye Loong" To: "solace@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up Thread-Index: AQHNvQ/Ls8VpsIxeDEOdmSbm18t0JZfe1ASAgAASbQCAAAjlAIAAFgwAgAAB5gCAABAegIAAIPAg Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 02:35:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <17F77EDC-3726-4AF2-9848-1C98E3F98B7E@tzi.org> <509AC579.3090301@gmail.com> <30433E6B-C9B9-4EDC-B2D5-1D042F8199AD@tzi.org> <509ADC64.2040902@gridmerge.com> <509AEEE2.6000102@gmail.com> <1706388E-C26A-4665-B9EF-E502CC71B6CF@tzi.org> <509AFDFF.5030505@gridmerge.com> In-Reply-To: <509AFDFF.5030505@gridmerge.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.129.69.29] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_EAE29B174013F643B5245BA11953A1BE223043FC011DB3MPN1032MG_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 02:35:35 -0000 --_000_EAE29B174013F643B5245BA11953A1BE223043FC011DB3MPN1032MG_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rob's suggestion sounds good to me. We need a starting point and then we ca= n build on it later on. Cheers Sye Loong From: solace-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:solace-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Robert Cragie Sent: donderdag 8 november 2012 1:34 To: solace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up I think the point is you could choose any number of scenarios and providing= they are well-researched and understood, any of them would serve as a star= ting point. Where it starts to go wrong IMHO is trying to start with a numb= er of disparate scenarios and in the first analysis phase trying to distil = some common understanding and architecture from all of them. I think it mak= es more sense to start with one and I think that Carsten's suggestion is mo= re representative of the challenges facing device lifecycle and is therefor= e a good starting point. I would then move forward in an incremental fashion whereby at each increme= nt we: 1. Introduce a new scenarios 2. Aim to describe it using the architectural concepts developed for the= previous scenarios 3. Refine the architectural concepts Robert On 07/11/2012 11:36 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: On Nov 7, 2012, at 18:29, Rene Struik wrote: industrial control Too easy. This is usually a highly controlled environment, where there already are de= fined business relationships. Try a home occupied with a family with a 13-year old son, where the lifecyc= le later involves, say, a divorce and a foreclosure. (I like the industrial scenario, but I think we should do that later.) Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten _______________________________________________ solace mailing list solace@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace ________________________________ The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p= rotected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addre= ssee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha= t any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is st= rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipien= t, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the= original message. --_000_EAE29B174013F643B5245BA11953A1BE223043FC011DB3MPN1032MG_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Rob’s suggestion = sounds good to me. We need a starting point and then we can build on it lat= er on.

 

Cheers

Sye Loong

 

From: solace-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:solace-bounce= s@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Cragie
Sent: donderdag 8 november 2012 1:34
To: solace@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up

 

I think the point is = you could choose any number of scenarios and providing they are well-resear= ched and understood, any of them would serve as a starting point. Where it = starts to go wrong IMHO is trying to start with a number of disparate scenarios and in the first analysis phase= trying to distil some common understanding and architecture from all of th= em. I think it makes more sense to start with one and I think that Carsten'= s suggestion is more representative of the challenges facing device lifecycle and is therefore a good starting= point.

I would then move forward in an incremental fashion whereby at each increme= nt we:

  1. Introduce a new scenarios
  2. Aim to describe it using the architectural concep= ts developed for the previous scenarios
  3. Refine the architectural concepts

Robert

On 07/11/2012 11:36 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote:

On Nov 7, 2012, at 18:29, Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com> wrote:
 
industrial control
 
Too easy.
 
This is usually a highly controlled environment, where there already a=
re defined business relationships.
 
Try a home occupied with a family with a 13-year old son, where the li=
fecycle later involves, say, a divorce and a foreclosure.
 
(I like the industrial scenario, but I think we should do that later.)=

 
Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten
 
_______________________________________________
solace mailing list
solace@ietf.org
https://www.i=
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace
 

 


The information contained in= this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable la= w. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the = intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message i= s strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended reci= pient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of= the original message.
 --_000_EAE29B174013F643B5245BA11953A1BE223043FC011DB3MPN1032MG_-- From rstruik.ext@gmail.com Wed Nov 7 18:47:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8D8221F8A8F for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:47:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O6JqnvzfyV+Q for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-f172.google.com (mail-ie0-f172.google.com [209.85.223.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F2B21F8A84 for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f172.google.com with SMTP id 9so3901171iec.31 for ; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 18:47:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=sz26RvI0Ukb/gHfAKAcx5XJeZjy6iA0Jz70J3oKRkCI=; b=FOt6vIG0pc6fMwb9B1haH0TqrLDvggDDqzTnCea6dktdgsnk3Voxm+L8Cn+yPKh15t 7QvKuJRjOHAxXm6KJeKPJhXOrJfyyfil7X5gahcJ3aIM4Oyl77BYjbm192B8ISNupz9b 1LH1T9OGtlS7nxg8gZOld7cv30CYS9JSDPxeYoS+N5yMikZiYMlQUhCKwEGbHCua6qGP BaERwnxfmliHToDRbk1ZMb9sGgayuxhgRzGNxc/EEsxrolL4x2fk4GXKSaAucW8SgLgk v+W/YS4GH/c4ip9J86sPc0+rz53LGTFn9k7cSbdQ5EDEMgBRvPorqLpLxewQb1Q6bmS+ CFPg== Received: by 10.50.156.232 with SMTP id wh8mr6760957igb.56.1352342861382; Wed, 07 Nov 2012 18:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.100] (CPE0013100e2c51-CM001cea35caa6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com. [99.231.4.27]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b13sm3705960igp.7.2012.11.07.18.47.39 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 07 Nov 2012 18:47:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <509B1D47.6020901@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2012 21:47:35 -0500 From: Rene Struik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121026 Thunderbird/16.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com References: <17F77EDC-3726-4AF2-9848-1C98E3F98B7E@tzi.org> <509AC579.3090301@gmail.com> <30433E6B-C9B9-4EDC-B2D5-1D042F8199AD@tzi.org> <509ADC64.2040902@gridmerge.com> <509AEEE2.6000102@gmail.com> <1706388E-C26A-4665-B9EF-E502CC71B6CF@tzi.org> <509AFDFF.5030505@gridmerge.com> In-Reply-To: <509AFDFF.5030505@gridmerge.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040601050403040501040007" Cc: solace@ietf.org Subject: Re: [solace] Slides posted for SAAG heads-up X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 02:47:42 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040601050403040501040007 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all: I was just commenting on discussion points to be presented with saag tomorrow and not trying to get into position-based arguing techniques on which scenario is "right" or "wrong". I presented a scenario that has proved highly relevant to a community with deep pockets (oil and gas industry, fast-moving consumer goods) and that is actionable (sufficiently concrete description to plot potential ways to accommodate this). I do not want to get into any discussion whether someone else's foreclosed home property with divorced parents (out of this world, in Asian context, me thinks) scenario would be more appropriate. To address security needs for internet of things scenarios, one simply has to distill the technical triggers on devices and network elements and see how to accommodate any state transition appropriately (not that hard, in my own experience). I would be happy if, after years, the topic area of trust lifecycle management for highly constrained networks would find a good home *and* would address the predominant technical topics required to lay a solid foundation towards this. If this would be the outcome, I would be happy to contribute. Hence, my note. Have a good meeting. Rene On 11/7/2012 7:34 PM, Robert Cragie wrote: > I think the point is you could choose any number of scenarios and > providing they are well-researched and understood, any of them would > serve as a starting point. Where it starts to go wrong IMHO is trying > to start with a number of disparate scenarios and in the first > analysis phase trying to distil some common understanding and > architecture from all of them. I think it makes more sense to start > with one and I think that Carsten's suggestion is more representative > of the challenges facing device lifecycle and is therefore a good > starting point. > > I would then move forward in an incremental fashion whereby at each > increment we: > > 1. Introduce a new scenarios > 2. Aim to describe it using the architectural concepts developed for > the previous scenarios > 3. Refine the architectural concepts > > Robert > > On 07/11/2012 11:36 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >> On Nov 7, 2012, at 18:29, Rene Struik wrote: >> >>> industrial control >> Too easy. >> >> This is usually a highly controlled environment, where there already are defined business relationships. >> >> Try a home occupied with a family with a 13-year old son, where the lifecycle later involves, say, a divorce and a foreclosure. >> >> (I like the industrial scenario, but I think we should do that later.) >> >> Grüße, Carsten >> >> _______________________________________________ >> solace mailing list >> solace@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > solace mailing list > solace@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace -- email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363 --------------040601050403040501040007 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi all:

I was just commenting on discussion points to be presented with saag tomorrow and not trying to get into position-based arguing techniques on which scenario is "right" or "wrong". I presented a scenario that has proved highly relevant to a community with deep pockets (oil and gas industry, fast-moving consumer goods) and that is actionable (sufficiently concrete description to plot potential ways to accommodate this).

I do not want to get into any discussion whether someone else's foreclosed home property with divorced parents (out of this world, in Asian context, me thinks) scenario would be more appropriate. To address security needs for internet of things scenarios, one simply has to distill the technical triggers on devices and network elements and see how to accommodate any state transition appropriately (not that hard, in my own experience).

I would be happy if, after years, the topic area of trust lifecycle management for highly constrained networks would find a good home *and* would address the predominant technical topics required to lay a solid foundation towards this. If this would be the outcome, I would be happy to contribute. Hence, my note.

Have a good meeting.

Rene


On 11/7/2012 7:34 PM, Robert Cragie wrote:
I think the point is you could choose any number of scenarios and providing they are well-researched and understood, any of them would serve as a starting point. Where it starts to go wrong IMHO is trying to start with a number of disparate scenarios and in the first analysis phase trying to distil some common understanding and architecture from all of them. I think it makes more sense to start with one and I think that Carsten's suggestion is more representative of the challenges facing device lifecycle and is therefore a good starting point.

I would then move forward in an incremental fashion whereby at each increment we:

  1. Introduce a new scenarios
  2. Aim to describe it using the architectural concepts developed for the previous scenarios
  3. Refine the architectural concepts
Robert

On 07/11/2012 11:36 PM, Carsten Bormann wrote:
On Nov 7, 2012, at 18:29, Rene Struik <rstruik.ext@gmail.com> wrote:


industrial control

Too easy.

This is usually a highly controlled environment, where there already are defined business relationships.

Try a home occupied with a family with a 13-year old son, where the lifecycle later involves, say, a divorce and a foreclosure.

(I like the industrial scenario, but I think we should do that later.)

Grüße, Carsten

_______________________________________________
solace mailing list
solace@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace





_______________________________________________
solace mailing list
solace@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/solace



-- 
email: rstruik.ext@gmail.com | Skype: rstruik
cell: +1 (647) 867-5658 | US: +1 (415) 690-7363
--------------040601050403040501040007-- From sye.loong.keoh@philips.com Tue Nov 27 01:53:55 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32CFB21F850C for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 01:53:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ue9JbTtQ8z-t for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 01:53:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (ch1ehsobe006.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.181.186]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA66921F8507 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 01:53:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail9-ch1-R.bigfish.com (10.43.68.245) by CH1EHSOBE011.bigfish.com (10.43.70.61) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:53:53 +0000 Received: from mail9-ch1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail9-ch1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA33E3401A2 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:53:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.55.7.222; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:mail.philips.com; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -4 X-BigFish: VPS-4(z40ffnz217bI15d6O9251Je6eLc85fhzz1de0h1202h1d1ah1d2ahzz18c673hz2dh2a8h668h839hd25hf0ah1288h12a5h12bdh137ah1441h1504h1537h153bh162dh1631h15d0l1155h) Received: from mail9-ch1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail9-ch1 (MessageSwitch) id 1354010030869198_739; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:53:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CH1EHSMHS002.bigfish.com (snatpool1.int.messaging.microsoft.com [10.43.68.252]) by mail9-ch1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8867240062 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:53:50 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.philips.com (157.55.7.222) by CH1EHSMHS002.bigfish.com (10.43.70.2) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:53:50 +0000 Received: from 011-DB3MPN1-032.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([169.254.2.176]) by 011-DB3MMR1-009.MGDPHG.emi.philips.com ([10.128.28.48]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.003; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:53:49 +0000 From: "Keoh, Sye Loong" To: "solace@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: progress Thread-Index: Ac3MhQZ96pcOHzdZRd6o4GrqPtKqgQ== Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:53:49 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [194.171.252.104] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_EAE29B174013F643B5245BA11953A1BE2230F9DE011DB3MPN1032MG_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: philips.com Subject: [solace] progress X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:53:55 -0000 --_000_EAE29B174013F643B5245BA11953A1BE2230F9DE011DB3MPN1032MG_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, I was reading the notes from Carsten and it seems that we have a first 'del= iverable' due this month ;) I was wondering how are we progressing with the call for contributions? Carsten, do you have any updates and do you need any help from us? Cheers Sye Loong Notes from Carsten in IETF85: -- come up with a call for contributions (which specifically lists the questions we ask) -> (November) -- solicit the contributions (Internet-Drafts) -> (maybe till January) -- sort and structure, define a common terminology (have a first Webex call maybe in January) -- maybe get some of the contributions to rev based on the emerging termino= logy -- summarize and define work for phase 2 (Orlando IETF) ________________________________ The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally p= rotected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addre= ssee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified tha= t any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is st= rictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipien= t, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the= original message. --_000_EAE29B174013F643B5245BA11953A1BE2230F9DE011DB3MPN1032MG_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear all,

 

I was reading the notes from Carsten and it seems th= at we have a first ‘deliverable’ due this month ;)

I was wondering how are we progressing with the call= for contributions?

Carsten, do you have any updates and do you need any= help from us?

 

Cheers

Sye Loong

 

Notes from Carsten in IETF85:

-- come up with a call for contributions (which specifica= lly lists the

   questions we ask) -> (November)

-- solicit the contributions (Internet-Drafts) -> (may= be till January)

-- sort and structure, define a common terminology=

   (have a first Webex call maybe in January)

-- maybe get some of the contributions to rev based on th= e emerging terminology

-- summarize and define work for phase 2

   (Orlando IETF)

 


The information contained in= this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable la= w. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the = intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message i= s strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended reci= pient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of= the original message.
 --_000_EAE29B174013F643B5245BA11953A1BE2230F9DE011DB3MPN1032MG_-- From cabo@tzi.org Tue Nov 27 01:57:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: solace@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0977021F8529 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 01:57:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.63 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.63 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HnQycWWnbxZ0 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 01:57:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from informatik.uni-bremen.de (mailhost.informatik.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:30c9::12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 474F021F8526 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 01:57:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at informatik.uni-bremen.de Received: from smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.120]) by informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id qAR9vBex004654; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 10:57:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from [172.16.2.54] (unknown [217.13.59.190]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp-fb3.informatik.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9356B36C; Tue, 27 Nov 2012 10:57:11 +0100 (CET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 10:57:10 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8B91B97A-FF9F-4CEB-9A41-EB75D54851B5@tzi.org> References: To: "Keoh, Sye Loong" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "solace@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [solace] progress X-BeenThere: solace@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: "\"Smart Object Lifecycle Architecture for Constrained Environments\" discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:57:21 -0000 On Nov 27, 2012, at 10:53, "Keoh, Sye Loong" = wrote: > Carsten, do you have any updates and do you need any help from us? I'm stuck in the CoAP interop event this week. I still *hope* to have a = draft out by the end of this week. By then, I'll need a lot of help to bang this into shape... Gr=FC=DFe, Carsten