From extest-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Sun Apr 1 05:05:25 2001 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id FAA15760 for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 05:05:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D14C7444FA for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 05:04:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: lists.bell-labs.com mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@lists.bell-labs.com To: spirits-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes X-Ack: no Sender: extest-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: extest-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: extest@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta6 Precedence: bulk Message-Id: <20010401090427.D14C7444FA@lists.bell-labs.com> Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 05:04:27 -0400 (EDT) This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your lists.bell-labs.com mailing list memberships. 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Passwords for spirits-archive@lists.ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- spirits@lists.bell-labs.com QMKP http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/options/spirits/spirits-archive%40lists.ietf.org From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Sun Apr 1 20:02:02 2001 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA29056 for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 20:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DAF1443A0; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 20:02:01 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com Received: from chmls20.mediaone.net (chmls20.mediaone.net [24.147.1.156]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D16B44344 for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 20:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from snowshore.com (h00e02940fd8d.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.147.175]) by chmls20.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3201ta05528 for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 20:01:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3AC7C186.2EF3A480@snowshore.com> From: Joe Benoit Organization: Snowshore Networks, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [SPIRITS] unsubscribe jbenoit@snowshore.com Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta6 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: IETF SPIRITS Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: http://lists.bell-labs.com/pipermail/spirits/ Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 20:02:15 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit unsubscribe jbenoit@snowshore.com -- Joseph Benoit Principal Software Engineer Snowshore Networks Inc 285 Billerica Road Chelmsford, MA 01824 Tel: (978)367-8423 Fax: (978)367-8499 Email: jbenoit@snowshore.com Url: www.snowshore.com _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Sun Apr 1 20:06:03 2001 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA29231 for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 20:06:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12A2C443AD; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 20:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com Received: from chmls20.mediaone.net (chmls20.mediaone.net [24.147.1.156]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 842A6443A0 for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 20:05:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from snowshore.com (h00e02940fd8d.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.147.175]) by chmls20.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f3205Aa08335 for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 20:05:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3AC7C249.1B98F0A4@snowshore.com> From: Joe Benoit Organization: Snowshore Networks, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [SPIRITS] Apologies Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta6 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: IETF SPIRITS Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: http://lists.bell-labs.com/pipermail/spirits/ Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 20:05:29 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry about that last email... I always laugh when other people do that ... : ( -- Joseph Benoit Principal Software Engineer Snowshore Networks Inc 285 Billerica Road Chelmsford, MA 01824 Tel: (978)367-8423 Fax: (978)367-8499 Email: jbenoit@snowshore.com Url: www.snowshore.com _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Tue Apr 3 19:35:03 2001 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id TAA20308 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 19:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B677F44375; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 19:35:01 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@share.research.bell-labs.com Received: from crufty.research.bell-labs.com (crufty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.49]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E2DBC44337 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 19:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by crufty; Tue Apr 3 19:30:41 EDT 2001 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id D82B844380; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 19:19:39 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com Received: from hotair.hobl.lucent.com (hotair.hobl.lucent.com [199.118.135.2]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A64094437D for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 19:19:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bell-labs.com by hotair.hobl.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.5 sol2) id TAA02743; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 19:19:39 -0400 Message-ID: <3ACA5A89.A0715E58@bell-labs.com> From: Igor Faynberg Reply-To: faynberg@lucent.com Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-CCK-MCD EMS-1.4 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com Cc: sob@harvard.edu Subject: Why SIP? (Was Re: [SPIRITS] Some Thoughts On Protocol Requirements) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: IETF SPIRITS Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: http://lists.bell-labs.com/pipermail/spirits/ Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 19:19:37 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ladies and Gentlemen: I have just returned after being away from e-mail for two weeks, and found this thread, to which--granted--I have given a much higher priority than the rest of 2,768 messages, which are still waiting. First, in response to Bruce Chapman, whose message started this exchange, I say that I would be happy consider any request to update the requirements got quite a few comments and plan to start this job sometime next week. I was surprised that no one presented a SIMPLE answer to Bruce's query regarding the current choice of SIP for SPIRITS: RFC 2995 has listed a number of pre-SPIRITS implementations for Internet Call Waiting (and other services), which have ALL been implemented using SIP! (Conversely, no non-SIP implementation has been reported or even discussed.) With PINT, the situation was totally different: RFC 2458 has listed several implementations, of which NONE used SIP. Still, based on the review of the problems with these implementations, SIP was presented in RFC 2458 and recommended for a number of reasons, all of which, incidentally, hold for SPIRITS. I have been watching the discussion of using HTTP, but I feel uneasy about even discussing it because there have been no prototyping known to us, except, of course, for Lawrence Conroy's Call Center report, which is now part of RFC 2458, and which explicitly lists the shortcomings of using HTTP. I disagree with the argument that SIP INVITE and SUBSCRIBE/NOTIFY are incidental--they are precisely what SPIRITS needs. Of course, a new protocol could be relatively easily designed, or HTTP could be twisted and turned to do the job, but... why bother!? SIP has been invented from the beginning to do for IP telephony what Q.931/ISUP/INAP have been doing for the PSTN. We have already successfully demonstrated that SIP can perfectly interwork with the PSTN in support of services. (Incidentally, this is a thing on which both the IETF and ITU-T agree, not to mention the wide industry support--cf. proceedings of VON conferences, IEEE IN workshops in the past two years, IEEE ICIN 2000, and many others.) I am not quite sure what is meant by "vagrant servers," and why what was good for PINT may not be good for SPIRITS. I would really like to see some specifics before I understand. On other points of the discussion: 1) Binary- vs. text-encoded protocols. I have been on the record for years stating my preference for binary-encoded protocols for a variety of reasons (absence of CPU-hogging parsing and clear definition of semantics among the first two of them); however, I do believe in RUNNING CODE. SIP is there, and the issue is moot. SIP has proved it can do the job, and we have no time for academic exercises. 2) ASN.1 (I am just answering the point, although this list item is clearly redundant in light of the previous one). In general, ASN.1 works very efficiently if PER (not BER) encoding scheme is used. Using PER, however, is problematic--to say the least--in the Internet environment, because any change in the specification would require an update to all hosts. 3) XML. In addition to what Kumar has allured said quite eloquently, I add that we discussed that issue at length in an ad-hoc corridor conversations at the last two IETF meetings. Henning confirmed that SIP can carry XMLed parameters right now, so I believe we should research this option further and try to implement it ASAP. 4) INAP parameters. SPIRITS is not merely the means of transport of INAP parameters--it does much more than that. A list of INAP parameters to be chosen will depend on specific proposals and the discussion (please see the "methodology" section of the requirements). I think Frans Haerens has made an excellent point when he suggested that we take a look at Parlay specifications as a starting point. People who have designed an API clearly had many services in mind, and we ought to build on their experience. (Incidentally, the SPIRITS protocol's support the Parlay API would be an excellent by-product of the effort, especially important to wireless services--to which Jorge alerted us--as 3GPP accepted PARLAY API.) I love to have an odd number of items in a list, but I cannot think of the fifth item. (Whoever throws the first stone at me, may suggest it.) Having said all that, I am making a proposal: let us consider using any other than SIP protocol in SPIRITS only after someone has implemented it, at least for the base SPIRITS services. If we go into the business of discussing new protocols solely on theoretical basis, this group will never meet its milestones... Respectfully, Igor _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Wed Apr 4 07:00:04 2001 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id HAA13298 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B9844393; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:00:02 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com Received: from kt.co.kr (mail.kt.co.kr [147.6.112.223]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2D8F44337 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 06:59:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by kt.co.kr (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00601 for spirits@lists.bell-labs.com.procmail; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:55:49 +0900 (KST) Received: from kt.co.kr ([147.6.11.139]) by kt.co.kr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21902 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:55:49 +0900 (KST) Message-ID: <3ACAFF3E.816674BD@kt.co.kr> From: =?EUC-KR?B?yLLB+LDm?= Reply-To: jkhwang@kt.co.kr Organization: =?EUC-KR?B?x9GxucXrvcU=?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-MAIL-AUTHOR: jkhwang@kt.co.kr X-MAIL-MESSAGEID: dniishqewswspirits Subject: Re: [SPIRITS] Some Thoughts On Protocol Requirements References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------182A5F28ACDC5A13CD3DBB18" Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: IETF SPIRITS Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: http://lists.bell-labs.com/pipermail/spirits/ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 20:02:22 +0900 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------182A5F28ACDC5A13CD3DBB18 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=EUC-KR Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have read the draft you sent to SPIRITS mailing group.(SOAP) It's very interesting to me for now, because I am concerning about service architecture in NGN like packet network, especially for telephony services. The issue would be focused to the service triggering framework(mechanism) between application control and call control. In my first insight, your reference can be one of the candidates for it. I hope to confirm then, Do you think 'the SIP extension'(SERVICE mechanism) can provide the triggering architecture for value-added telephony service (such as call forwarding on no-answer, free-phone, time-dependent routing, etc) in the SIP-based (NGN) networks ? Any response or forwarding or reference would be very appreciated. Thank you- Jinkyung Hwang Korea Telecom "Roy, Radhika R, ALCOO" wrote: > Folks: > > It might be interesting to see the enclosed draft. > > Radhika R. Roy > > Technology Consultant > AT&T > Room 3D-2C09 > 200 S. Laurel Avenue > Middletown, NJ 07748 > +1 732 420 1580 > rrroy@att.com > _______________________________________________ > SPIRITS mailing list > SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com > http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: draft-deason-sip-soap-00.txt > draft-deason-sip-soap-00.txt Type: Plain Text (text/plain) > Encoding: quoted-printable --------------182A5F28ACDC5A13CD3DBB18 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=EUC-KR; name="jkhwang.vcf" Content-Description: Card for ȲÁø°æ Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="jkhwang.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit begin:vcard n:;Ms. Jinkyung Hwang tel;fax:+82-2-526-5262 tel;work:+82-2-526-6830 x-mozilla-html:TRUE org:Korea Telecom;Intelligent Network Team version:2.1 email;internet:jkhwang@kt.co.kr title:Technical Staff adr;quoted-printable:;;17 Woomyun-dong Seocho-gu=0D=0ASeoul Korea;;;; x-mozilla-cpt:;-9888 fn:Ms. Jinkyung Hwang end:vcard --------------182A5F28ACDC5A13CD3DBB18-- _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits