From extest-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Mon Apr 1 05:14:40 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA13490 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 05:14:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g31AEgM31916 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 05:14:42 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 05:14:42 -0500 Message-Id: <200204011014.g31AEgM31916@share.research.bell-labs.com> Subject: lists.bell-labs.com mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@lists.bell-labs.com To: spirits-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes X-Ack: no Sender: extest-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: extest-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: extest@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your lists.bell-labs.com mailing list memberships. 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Passwords for spirits-archive@lists.ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- spirits@lists.bell-labs.com unmora http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/options/spirits/spirits-archive%40lists.ietf.org From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Fri Apr 12 22:16:29 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA09294 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3D2G6M22815; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:16:06 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3D2FYM22797 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:15:34 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Fri Apr 12 22:15:36 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id B4FCB4439E; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.9]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D2794439D for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:15:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dusty.research.bell-labs.com (dusty.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.7]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3D2F8o89602 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.20.85]) by dusty; Fri Apr 12 22:10:45 EDT 2002 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:15:05 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.150.57.150] Reply-To: "Hemant Agrawal" From: "Hemant Agrawal" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Apr 2002 02:15:05.0784 (UTC) FILETIME=[06F37B80:01C1E291] Subject: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:15:03 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, In my understanding, the current focus of SPIRITS group is to provide the existing IN capabilities to SIP network. What about providing SIP services to existing SSPs. or hosting IN services in SIP environment (IP )? For the new implementations, I feel it is much easier to host services in SIP than installing new SCPs. Is their any significant work being done in this direction. Is it wise to do so? One instance I found of such service is the Nortel-Telia implementation in the pre-spirits draft. In that example, the SIP server is being used as a Redirecting Server. However in case of providing support for mid call features, shouldn't a stateful SIP Proxy server is required? Thanks Hemant _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Fri Apr 12 22:18:05 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA09306 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3D2I2M22848; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:18:02 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3D2HYM22826 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:17:34 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Fri Apr 12 22:16:08 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id F21174439E; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:15:42 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.10]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFA9A4439D for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:15:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dusty.research.bell-labs.com (dusty.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.7]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3D2Fek17932 for ; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 22:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.20.118]) by dusty; Fri Apr 12 22:11:18 EDT 2002 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:15:37 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.150.57.150] Reply-To: "Hemant Agrawal" From: "Hemant Agrawal" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Apr 2002 02:15:37.0691 (UTC) FILETIME=[19F81AB0:01C1E291] Subject: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 19:15:36 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, In my understanding, the current focus of SPIRITS group is to provide the existing IN capabilities to SIP network. What about providing SIP services to existing SSPs. or hosting IN services in SIP environment (IP )? For the new implementations, I feel it is much easier to host services in SIP than installing new SCPs. Is their any significant work being done in this direction. Is it wise to do so? One instance I found of such service is the Nortel-Telia implementation in the pre-spirits draft. In that example, the SIP server is being used as a Redirecting Server. However in case of providing support for mid call features, shouldn't a stateful SIP Proxy server is required? Thanks Hemant _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Sat Apr 13 05:26:11 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA23091 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 05:26:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3D9Q2M25267; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 05:26:02 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3D9PYM25254 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 05:25:34 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Sat Apr 13 05:25:13 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id 6B08C4439E; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 05:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.10]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4520F4439D for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 05:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dusty.research.bell-labs.com (dusty.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.7]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3D9Ojk32881 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 05:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obsoft.com ([64.139.4.113]) by dusty; Sat Apr 13 05:20:22 EDT 2002 Received: from obsoft.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by obsoft.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3D9TMt18200; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 02:29:23 -0700 Message-ID: <3CB7FA72.FE5335BF@obsoft.com> From: Bobby Sardana Organization: ObjectSoftware, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.7-10 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hemant Agrawal Cc: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com Subject: Re: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 02:29:22 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Comments inline! Hemant Agrawal wrote: > Hello, > In my understanding, the current focus of SPIRITS group is to provide > the existing IN capabilities to > SIP network. > What about providing SIP services to existing SSPs. The SIP for IN (SIN) is currently looking at IN interface with respect to SIP. The current SIN draft provides existing IN service access mapping. > > or hosting IN services in SIP environment (IP )? This would imply the following: a. Use CPL for new SCP like platform b. Provide a SIP translation for existing SCP infrastructure. For native SIP networks (a) would be useful. For hybrid, near term networks, (b) would be useful. I am sure that the existing SCP vendors would also push for (b). > > > For the new implementations, I feel it is much easier to host services in > SIP than installing new > SCPs. Easier in what manner? Deployment, implementation, management, or cost? > Is their any significant work being done in this direction. The SIP proxy players along with SCP manufacturers will be looking at the services market. So, yes there is work being done in this area. > > Is it wise to do so? Services generate revenue. > > > One instance I found of such service is the Nortel-Telia implementation in > the pre-spirits draft. > In that example, the SIP server is being used as a Redirecting Server. > However in case of providing support for mid call features, shouldn't a > stateful SIP Proxy server is required? Mid-call features are supported by INFO method in SIP. If the INVITE originated through a "Call Stateful Proxy" then yes the INFO will traverse the same route. regards, Bobby Sardana. sardana@obsoft.com > > > Thanks > Hemant > > _______________________________________________ > SPIRITS mailing list > SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com > http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Sat Apr 13 06:32:20 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA23504 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 06:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3DAW1M25587; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 06:32:01 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3DAVXM25574 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 06:31:33 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Sat Apr 13 06:30:37 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id 942324439E; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 06:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.10]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4480E4439D for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 06:30:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dusty.research.bell-labs.com (dusty.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.7]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3DAU8k34671 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 06:30:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hindon.hss.co.in ([202.54.26.202]) by dusty; Sat Apr 13 06:25:45 EDT 2002 Received: from sandesh.hss.hns.com (sandesh [139.85.242.35]) by hindon.hss.co.in (8.10.0/8.10.0) with SMTP id g3DAV9322344; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 16:01:09 +0530 (IST) Received: by sandesh.hss.hns.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (733.2 10-16-1998)) id 65256B9A.00397DD0 ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:57:57 +0530 X-Lotus-FromDomain: HSS From: dmalhotra@hss.hns.com To: "Hemant Agrawal" Cc: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com Message-ID: <65256B9A.00397D1A.00@sandesh.hss.hns.com> Subject: Re: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:57:54 +0530 >Hello, > In my understanding, the current focus of SPIRITS group is to provide >the existing IN capabilities to >SIP network. >What about providing SIP services to existing SSPs. >or hosting IN services in SIP environment (IP )? >For the new implementations, I feel it is much easier to host services in >SIP than installing new >SCPs. Is their any significant work being done in this direction. >Is it wise to do so? The Services provided in SCP are mainly network services providing the number translation or controlling charging for the subscriber who can be reached by anybody in the network. This (Number translation) can be achieved using Redirect Server in SIP too. But there are some services which are not request - response type. They typically require the coordination between various entities in the network like Proxy Server forking the INVITE request etc. Those are difficult to implement using SCP, since it is mainly designed for Req-Resp services where resp is based on data in database. > One instance I found of such service is the Nortel-Telia implementation in >the pre-spirits draft. >In that example, the SIP server is being used as a Redirecting Server. >However in case of providing support for mid call features, shouldn't a >stateful SIP Proxy server is required? Same as above Regards Dhiraj _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Sat Apr 13 14:34:23 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA27999 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3DIY1M27558; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:34:01 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3DIXZM27545 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:33:35 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Sat Apr 13 14:33:34 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id 1A4D04439E; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:33:08 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.9]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E73954439D for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotair.hobl.lucent.com (hotair.hobl.lucent.com [199.118.135.2]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3DIX6o17868 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bell-labs.com by hotair.hobl.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.5 sol2) id OAA26636; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:33:03 -0400 Message-ID: <3CB879D0.887E3B52@bell-labs.com> From: Igor Faynberg Reply-To: faynberg@lucent.com Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD EMS-1.5 (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hemant Agrawal Cc: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com Subject: Re: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:32:48 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hemant, The charter of SPIRITS group is very different from what you describe. SPIRITS deals with delivering the PSTN event notifications to the Internet end-points. The issues of SIP/IN interworking are worked in the SIN design team, which is in the process of creating the first SIN informational RFC. The current draft (Gurbani et al.) will soon be published. You can ask Vijay (gurbani@lucent.com) for the latest draft. If you want to join SIN, please write to Hui-Lan (hui-lan.lu@lucent.com). Igor Hemant Agrawal wrote: > > Hello, > In my understanding, the current focus of SPIRITS group is to provide > the existing IN capabilities to > SIP network. > What about providing SIP services to existing SSPs. > or hosting IN services in SIP environment (IP )? > > For the new implementations, I feel it is much easier to host services in > SIP than installing new > SCPs. Is their any significant work being done in this direction. > Is it wise to do so? > > One instance I found of such service is the Nortel-Telia implementation in > the pre-spirits draft. > In that example, the SIP server is being used as a Redirecting Server. > However in case of providing support for mid call features, shouldn't a > stateful SIP Proxy server is required? > > Thanks > Hemant > > _______________________________________________ > SPIRITS mailing list > SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com > http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits Hemant Agrawal wrote: > > Hello, > In my understanding, the current focus of SPIRITS group is to provide > the existing IN capabilities to > SIP network. > What about providing SIP services to existing SSPs. > or hosting IN services in SIP environment (IP )? > > For the new implementations, I feel it is much easier to host services in > SIP than installing new > SCPs. Is their any significant work being done in this direction. > Is it wise to do so? > > One instance I found of such service is the Nortel-Telia implementation in > the pre-spirits draft. > In that example, the SIP server is being used as a Redirecting Server. > However in case of providing support for mid call features, shouldn't a > stateful SIP Proxy server is required? > > Thanks > Hemant > > _______________________________________________ > SPIRITS mailing list > SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com > http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Sat Apr 13 14:38:15 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA28043 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3DIc1M27616; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:38:01 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3DIbaM27594 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:37:36 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Sat Apr 13 14:37:01 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id 745E54439E; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.9]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48BB24439D for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotair.hobl.lucent.com (hotair.hobl.lucent.com [199.118.135.2]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3DIaWo17966 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bell-labs.com by hotair.hobl.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.5 sol2) id OAA26814; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:36:29 -0400 Message-ID: <3CB87A9E.7BB8BFF2@bell-labs.com> From: Igor Faynberg Reply-To: faynberg@lucent.com Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD EMS-1.5 (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bobby Sardana Cc: Hemant Agrawal , spirits@lists.bell-labs.com Subject: Re: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions References: <3CB7FA72.FE5335BF@obsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:36:14 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If I had seen Bobby's detailed response BEFORE I responded to the same message, I would not have any need to respond. I fully agree with Bobby. Igor Bobby Sardana wrote: > > Comments inline! > > Hemant Agrawal wrote: > > > Hello, > > In my understanding, the current focus of SPIRITS group is to provide > > the existing IN capabilities to > > SIP network. > > What about providing SIP services to existing SSPs. > > The SIP for IN (SIN) is currently looking at IN interface with respect to > SIP. The current SIN draft provides existing IN service access mapping. > > > > > or hosting IN services in SIP environment (IP )? > > This would imply the following: > > a. Use CPL for new SCP like platform > b. Provide a SIP translation for existing SCP infrastructure. > > For native SIP networks (a) would be useful. For hybrid, near term networks, > (b) would be useful. I am sure that the existing SCP vendors would also push > for (b). > > > > > > > For the new implementations, I feel it is much easier to host services in > > SIP than installing new > > SCPs. > > Easier in what manner? Deployment, implementation, management, or cost? > > > Is their any significant work being done in this direction. > > The SIP proxy players along with SCP manufacturers will be looking at the > services market. So, yes there is work being done in this area. > > > > > Is it wise to do so? > > Services generate revenue. > > > > > > > One instance I found of such service is the Nortel-Telia implementation in > > the pre-spirits draft. > > In that example, the SIP server is being used as a Redirecting Server. > > However in case of providing support for mid call features, shouldn't a > > stateful SIP Proxy server is required? > > Mid-call features are supported by INFO method in SIP. If the INVITE > originated through a "Call Stateful Proxy" then yes the INFO will traverse the > same route. > > regards, > > Bobby Sardana. > sardana@obsoft.com > > > > > > > Thanks > > Hemant > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SPIRITS mailing list > > SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com > > http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits > > _______________________________________________ > SPIRITS mailing list > SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com > http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Sat Apr 13 14:42:04 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA28084 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3DIg1M27677; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:42:01 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3DIfYM27664 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:41:34 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Sat Apr 13 14:41:43 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id E3E7F4439E; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.9]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFE44439D for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:41:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotair.hobl.lucent.com (hotair.hobl.lucent.com [199.118.135.2]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3DIfEo18084 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:41:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bell-labs.com by hotair.hobl.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.5 sol2) id OAA26945; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:41:11 -0400 Message-ID: <3CB87BB8.602E1CA5@bell-labs.com> From: Igor Faynberg Reply-To: faynberg@lucent.com Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD EMS-1.5 (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dmalhotra@hss.hns.com Cc: Hemant Agrawal , spirits@lists.bell-labs.com Subject: Re: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions References: <65256B9A.00397D1A.00@sandesh.hss.hns.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 14:40:56 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dmalhotra@hss.hns.com wrote: > >... > The Services provided in SCP are mainly network services providing the > number translation or controlling charging for the subscriber who > can be reached by anybody in the network. This (Number translation) > can be achieved using Redirect Server in SIP too. But there are some > services which are not request - response type. >... Precisely! One example of such a service is network queing of calls (something absolutely essential for the PSTN as it eliminates wasting of circuits--and something that will, at certain point, become essential in MPLS networks, for the same reason). Igor _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Sat Apr 13 22:26:29 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA03079 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3E2Q2M29675; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:26:02 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3E2PYM29662 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:25:34 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Sat Apr 13 22:25:19 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id AFC914439E; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:24:52 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.9]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8426E4439D for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:24:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ih2mail.ih.lucent.com (ih2mail.ih.lucent.com [135.1.241.39]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3E2Opo29853 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucent.com by ih2mail.ih.lucent.com (8.8.8+Sun/EMS-1.5 sol2) id VAA04183; Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:24:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3CB8E873.C0F9C611@lucent.com> From: "Vijay K. Gurbani" Organization: Bell Laboratories/Lucent Technologies, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD EMS-1.5 (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hemant Agrawal Cc: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com Subject: Re: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:24:51 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hemant Agrawal wrote: > > Hello, > In my understanding, the current focus of SPIRITS group is to provide > the existing IN capabilities to > SIP network. > What about providing SIP services to existing SSPs. > or hosting IN services in SIP environment (IP )? Hemant: Hosting IN services in SIP environments is covered by the IETF SIN Design Team (SIN => SIP/IN Interworking). We have gone through the last call for the first I-D, which maps the IN BCSM into SIP protocol state machine. You can access that particular I-D at: http://www.iit.edu/~gurbvij/I-D/draft-gurbani-sin-00.txt I am about to submit it to the SIP/SIPPING/SPIRITS WGs as a final form of last call. So, if you have any comments after your review it, please let me know. There is also an (outdated) implementation I-D that details our implementation experience with what is described in the sin-00.txt I-D. You can obtain the implementation I-D from: http://www.iit.edu/~gurbvij/I-D/sip-in-impl01.txt Best regards, - vijay -- Vijay K. Gurbani vkg@{lucent.com,research.bell-labs.com,acm.org} Internet Software and eServices Group Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs Innovations, 2000 Lucent Lane, Rm 6G-440 Naperville, Illinois 60566 Voice: +1 630 224 0216 Fax: +1 630 713 0184 _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Thu Apr 18 15:46:20 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20832 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:46:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3IJk4N01678; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:46:05 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3IJjYN01665 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:45:34 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Thu Apr 18 15:45:36 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id 5CF454439E; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:45:09 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.9]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBB904439D for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dusty.research.bell-labs.com (dusty.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.7]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3IJj6o20432 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 15:45:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotmail.com ([64.4.20.100]) by dusty; Thu Apr 18 15:40:35 EDT 2002 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:45:00 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [63.150.57.150] Reply-To: "Hemant Agrawal" From: "Hemant Agrawal" To: "Vijay K. Gurbani" Cc: References: <3CB8E873.C0F9C611@lucent.com> Subject: Re: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Apr 2002 19:45:00.0567 (UTC) FILETIME=[86D54A70:01C1E711] Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:01:18 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Thanks for all the responses! I went thru the work of SIN design team. I am still feeling that the focus of this team is more for providing interworking for SIP to access the IN services not the vice versa. I have modified the architecture diagram as in the draft. ************************************ * +-------o------------+ SIP * * |SIP Service Layer | Entity * * +--------------------+ * ************************************ | | SIP * | +---------------+ | SIN | +---o-----------+ | +-----+ INAP | **********|************************** * +-------|-------------------+ * * |+------o------+ SSP | * * || SSF | | * * |+-------------+ | * * || CCF | | * * |+------o------+ SS7 | * * +-------|-------------------+ * * *********************************** The general idea behind this architecture is to create services using SIP as if all communication was based on IP and all clients and servers were SIP enabled. And for the SSF, the SIP server will look like SCF. This system works well in Redirecting SIP mode to support services that execute before the end-to-end media sessions are established. These services include, for example: - call transfer and number portability for redirecting calls - call waiting and call offering for announcing a pending call - call screening and don't disturb for filtering incoming calls - automatic call distribution and 800-services for selecting termination point, etc The SIP Redirect Server receives a SIP INVITE message for each call regardless of which network the call is being set up in. The SIP server MAY apply any kind of service logic in order to decide on how to respond to the invitation. Service logic may interact with the user to allow the user to specify how to handle a call. However provider other sip services to the SSF is still a question as the IN model may not support them. Thanks Hemant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vijay K. Gurbani" To: "Hemant Agrawal" Cc: Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions Hemant Agrawal wrote: > > Hello, > In my understanding, the current focus of SPIRITS group is to provide > the existing IN capabilities to > SIP network. > What about providing SIP services to existing SSPs. > or hosting IN services in SIP environment (IP )? Hemant: Hosting IN services in SIP environments is covered by the IETF SIN Design Team (SIN => SIP/IN Interworking). We have gone through the last call for the first I-D, which maps the IN BCSM into SIP protocol state machine. You can access that particular I-D at: http://www.iit.edu/~gurbvij/I-D/draft-gurbani-sin-00.txt I am about to submit it to the SIP/SIPPING/SPIRITS WGs as a final form of last call. So, if you have any comments after your review it, please let me know. There is also an (outdated) implementation I-D that details our implementation experience with what is described in the sin-00.txt I-D. You can obtain the implementation I-D from: http://www.iit.edu/~gurbvij/I-D/sip-in-impl01.txt Best regards, - vijay -- Vijay K. Gurbani vkg@{lucent.com,research.bell-labs.com,acm.org} Internet Software and eServices Group Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs Innovations, 2000 Lucent Lane, Rm 6G-440 Naperville, Illinois 60566 Voice: +1 630 224 0216 Fax: +1 630 713 0184 _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Fri Apr 19 00:04:11 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA01549 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 00:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3J441N03856; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 00:04:01 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3J43YN03843 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 00:03:34 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Fri Apr 19 00:03:39 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id 4B2B54439E; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 00:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.10]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8C84439D for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 00:03:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dusty.research.bell-labs.com (dusty.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.7]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3J43Ak79271 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 00:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from obsoft.com ([64.139.4.113]) by dusty; Thu Apr 18 23:58:40 EDT 2002 Received: from obsoft.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by obsoft.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3J47et31725; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:07:40 -0700 Message-ID: <3CBF980C.6A58603A@obsoft.com> From: Bobby Sardana Organization: ObjectSoftware, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.7-10 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hemant Agrawal Cc: "Vijay K. Gurbani" , spirits@lists.bell-labs.com Subject: Re: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions References: <3CB8E873.C0F9C611@lucent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:07:40 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The model you describe will work well for services where only a lookup is needed. These are usually 800/888/877 like SCP services. For complicated services where an "adjunct node" may be required along with SCP, e.g., calling card service with prompts, a new framework would have to be designed and then mapped to the INAP interface. The question is why take this route at all! The answer is to modify existing SCP platforms to incorporate CPL processing and provide mapping to SIP interface. CPL based services can now be accessed via SIP interface and new SIP services can be deployed on existing SCP infrastructure. Over time such platforms will mature and will provide native SIP services. Also, the idea is to provide a migration path for SCP evolution so that new SIP based services can be deployed. regards, Bobby Sardana. sardana@obsoft.com Hemant Agrawal wrote: > Hi All, > Thanks for all the responses! > > I went thru the work of SIN design team. I am still feeling that the focus > of this team is more for providing interworking for SIP to access the IN > services not the vice versa. > > I have modified the architecture diagram as in the draft. > > ************************************ > > * +-------o------------+ SIP * > > * |SIP Service Layer | Entity * > > * +--------------------+ * > > ************************************ > > | > > | SIP * > > | > > +---------------+ > > | SIN | > > +---o-----------+ > > | > > +-----+ INAP > > | > > **********|************************** > > * +-------|-------------------+ * > > * |+------o------+ SSP | * > > * || SSF | | * > > * |+-------------+ | * > > * || CCF | | * > > * |+------o------+ SS7 | * > > * +-------|-------------------+ * > > * *********************************** > > The general idea behind this architecture is to create services using SIP as > if all communication was based on IP and all clients and servers were SIP > enabled. And for the SSF, the SIP server will look like SCF. > > This system works well in Redirecting SIP mode to support services that > execute before the end-to-end media sessions are established. These > services include, for example: > > - call transfer and number portability for redirecting calls > > - call waiting and call offering for announcing a pending call > > - call screening and don't disturb for filtering incoming calls > > - automatic call distribution and 800-services for selecting > > termination point, etc > > The SIP Redirect Server receives a SIP INVITE message for each call > regardless of which network the call is being set up in. The SIP server > MAY apply any kind of service logic in order to decide on how to respond to > the invitation. Service logic may interact with the user to allow the user > to specify how to handle a call. > > However provider other sip services to the SSF is still a question as the > IN model may not support them. > > Thanks > Hemant > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vijay K. Gurbani" > To: "Hemant Agrawal" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 7:24 PM > Subject: Re: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions > > Hemant Agrawal wrote: > > > > Hello, > > In my understanding, the current focus of SPIRITS group is to provide > > the existing IN capabilities to > > SIP network. > > What about providing SIP services to existing SSPs. > > or hosting IN services in SIP environment (IP )? > > Hemant: > > Hosting IN services in SIP environments is covered by the IETF SIN > Design Team (SIN => SIP/IN Interworking). We have gone through the > last call for the first I-D, which maps the IN BCSM into SIP protocol > state machine. You can access that particular I-D at: > > http://www.iit.edu/~gurbvij/I-D/draft-gurbani-sin-00.txt > > I am about to submit it to the SIP/SIPPING/SPIRITS WGs as a final > form of last call. So, if you have any comments after your review > it, please let me know. > > There is also an (outdated) implementation I-D that details our > implementation experience with what is described in the sin-00.txt > I-D. You can obtain the implementation I-D from: > > http://www.iit.edu/~gurbvij/I-D/sip-in-impl01.txt > > Best regards, > > - vijay > -- > Vijay K. Gurbani vkg@{lucent.com,research.bell-labs.com,acm.org} > Internet Software and eServices Group > Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs Innovations, 2000 Lucent Lane, Rm 6G-440 > Naperville, Illinois 60566 Voice: +1 630 224 0216 Fax: +1 630 713 0184 > _______________________________________________ > SPIRITS mailing list > SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com > http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits > > _______________________________________________ > SPIRITS mailing list > SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com > http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Fri Apr 19 03:15:12 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA12308 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:15:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3J7F1N04688; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:15:02 -0400 Received: from crufty.research.bell-labs.com (crufty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.49]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3J7ERN04669 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:14:27 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com (H-135-104-27-211.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.27.211]) by crufty.research.bell-labs.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g3J7ERkY006609 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:14:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id 2689A4439E; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:14:22 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.9]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0D74439D for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:14:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dusty.research.bell-labs.com (dusty.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.7]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3J7EKo56208 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 03:14:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m2-pasarela3.airtel.es ([212.166.209.12]) by dusty; Fri Apr 19 03:09:52 EDT 2002 Subject: Re: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions To: "Hemant Agrawal" Cc: "Vijay K. Gurbani" , X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: From: jgato@airtel.es X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on M2-SMTP3/AIRTEL(Release 5.0.5 |September 22, 2000) at 04/19/2002 09:14:18 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 09:14:13 +0200 Dear Hemant, I agree with you in you understanding regarding the scope of SIN (SIN is just about triggering IN services from SIP, specifically from "softswitches"). However, I am not sure to understand your proposal: a) The part between the SIP server and "SIN" is unclear to me. This can not be easilly called SIN node, since a "SIN" node would be a softswicth able to trigger an IN service with an INAP type of protocol). In you picture it looks more like a SIP/INAP gateway. b) The SSF-SIN part looks like more part of the SPIRITS architecture, where the SSF connects to a SPIRITS proxy. I think that if we refer to SIP services triggered from SSFs, the SPIRITS part apply, while for SS7 services from SIP, PINT applies. By the way, in 3GPP standardisation, work is being done for triggering of IN (CAMEL to be specific) services from SIP networks. The principles of SIN are used. The SIP node handles the session to a node called IMS-SSF (like a SIN node) to trigger CAMEL. Please refer to 23.278 (now in draft stage) from www.3gpp.org. Best regards, Jorge Gato Vodafone Spain "Hemant Agrawal" @lists.bell-labs.com con fecha 18/04/2002 21:01:18 Por favor, responda a "Hemant Agrawal" Enviado por: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Asunto: Re: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions Hi All, Thanks for all the responses! I went thru the work of SIN design team. I am still feeling that the focus of this team is more for providing interworking for SIP to access the IN services not the vice versa. I have modified the architecture diagram as in the draft. ************************************ * +-------o------------+ SIP * * |SIP Service Layer | Entity * * +--------------------+ * ************************************ | | SIP * | +---------------+ | SIN | +---o-----------+ | +-----+ INAP | **********|************************** * +-------|-------------------+ * * |+------o------+ SSP | * * || SSF | | * * |+-------------+ | * * || CCF | | * * |+------o------+ SS7 | * * +-------|-------------------+ * * *********************************** The general idea behind this architecture is to create services using SIP as if all communication was based on IP and all clients and servers were SIP enabled. And for the SSF, the SIP server will look like SCF. This system works well in Redirecting SIP mode to support services that execute before the end-to-end media sessions are established. These services include, for example: - call transfer and number portability for redirecting calls - call waiting and call offering for announcing a pending call - call screening and don't disturb for filtering incoming calls - automatic call distribution and 800-services for selecting termination point, etc The SIP Redirect Server receives a SIP INVITE message for each call regardless of which network the call is being set up in. The SIP server MAY apply any kind of service logic in order to decide on how to respond to the invitation. Service logic may interact with the user to allow the user to specify how to handle a call. However provider other sip services to the SSF is still a question as the IN model may not support them. Thanks Hemant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vijay K. Gurbani" To: "Hemant Agrawal" Cc: Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions Hemant Agrawal wrote: > > Hello, > In my understanding, the current focus of SPIRITS group is to provide > the existing IN capabilities to > SIP network. > What about providing SIP services to existing SSPs. > or hosting IN services in SIP environment (IP )? Hemant: Hosting IN services in SIP environments is covered by the IETF SIN Design Team (SIN => SIP/IN Interworking). We have gone through the last call for the first I-D, which maps the IN BCSM into SIP protocol state machine. You can access that particular I-D at: http://www.iit.edu/~gurbvij/I-D/draft-gurbani-sin-00.txt I am about to submit it to the SIP/SIPPING/SPIRITS WGs as a final form of last call. So, if you have any comments after your review it, please let me know. There is also an (outdated) implementation I-D that details our implementation experience with what is described in the sin-00.txt I-D. You can obtain the implementation I-D from: http://www.iit.edu/~gurbvij/I-D/sip-in-impl01.txt Best regards, - vijay -- Vijay K. Gurbani vkg@{lucent.com,research.bell-labs.com,acm.org} Internet Software and eServices Group Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs Innovations, 2000 Lucent Lane, Rm 6G-440 Naperville, Illinois 60566 Voice: +1 630 224 0216 Fax: +1 630 713 0184 _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Fri Apr 19 11:26:08 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23616 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:26:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3JFQ2N07047; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:26:02 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3JFPYN07027 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:25:34 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Fri Apr 19 11:24:56 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id 224D34439F; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:24:29 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.10]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E31004439D; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ih2mail.ih.lucent.com (ih2mail.ih.lucent.com [135.1.241.39]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3JFORk16218; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucent.com by ih2mail.ih.lucent.com (8.8.8+Sun/EMS-1.5 sol2) id KAA07438; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:24:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3CC03681.2060701@lucent.com> From: "Vijay K. Gurbani" Organization: Lucent Technologies, Inc./Bell Laboratories User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SIP LIST , SIPPING LIST , SPIRITS list , pint@lists.bell-labs.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [SPIRITS] SIP support for IN services Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 10:23:45 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: Enclosed is an I-D for review that describes SIP support for IN services. The I-D represents agreement of the IETF SIN (SIP/IN) design team and is intended for publication as an informational RFC. It has been through Last Call in the IETF SIN DT and the comments of the WGs identified in the To list of this email are now being solicited. http://search.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gurbani-sin-00.txt Thanks, - vijay -- Vijay K. Gurbani vkg@{lucent.com,research.bell-labs.com,acm.org} Wireless Networks Group/Internet Software and eServices Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs Innovations, 2000 Lucent Lane, Rm 6G-440 Naperville, Illinois 60566 Voice: +1 630 224 0216 _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Fri Apr 19 12:10:32 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA26267 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:10:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3JGA1N07330; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:10:01 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3JG9YN07308 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:09:34 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Fri Apr 19 12:09:44 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id 4BAEA4439E; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.10]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C594439D for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hotair.hobl.lucent.com (hotair.hobl.lucent.com [199.118.135.2]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3JG9Fk20754 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bell-labs.com by hotair.hobl.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.5 sol2) id MAA19184; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:09:11 -0400 Message-ID: <3CC0411B.AFD47F1D@bell-labs.com> From: Igor Faynberg Reply-To: faynberg@lucent.com Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD EMS-1.5 (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bobby Sardana Cc: Hemant Agrawal , "Vijay K. Gurbani" , spirits@lists.bell-labs.com Subject: Re: [SPIRITS] INAP-SIP Interworking: Basic questions References: <3CB8E873.C0F9C611@lucent.com> <3CBF980C.6A58603A@obsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:08:59 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bobby Sardana wrote: > > The model you describe will work well for services where only a lookup is > needed. These are usually 800/888/877 like SCP services. [...] > ... Oh, no! It is precisely the "freephone" service that needs MUCH more than a lookup. First of all, there is a "prompt and collect" with all the messages passing back and force and many different pieces of service logic that have to run--often concurrently--to service this. Second, an essential part of such services is network queuing, which is really a message-passing semaphore mechanism. Igor _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Thu Apr 25 14:38:24 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA01371 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3PIc6N16477; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:38:06 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3PIbVN16417 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:37:31 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Thu Apr 25 14:36:27 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id 037664439E; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:35:51 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.9]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEB064439D for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ih2mail.ih.lucent.com (ih2mail.ih.lucent.com [135.1.241.39]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3PIZno63389 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucent.com by ih2mail.ih.lucent.com (8.8.8+Sun/EMS-1.5 sol2) id NAA21848; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:35:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3CC84C82.1050702@lucent.com> From: Alec Brusilovsky Organization: Lucent Technologies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en,ru,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SPIRITS list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [SPIRITS] Daniel Moreno's I-D on Mobility Management Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:35:46 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ladies and Gentlemen, Please take a look at the new I-D "Mobility Events Management in SPIRITS" that was posted by Daniel Moreno and is available from: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moreno-mobility-events-00.txt This I-D describes in detail mobility events as per SPIRITS Architecture and SPIRITS Protocol Requirements. Kind regards, Alec _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Fri Apr 26 04:56:08 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA27624 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 04:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3Q8u2N20285; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 04:56:03 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3Q8tUN20272 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 04:55:30 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Fri Apr 26 04:54:15 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id 7EE064439E; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 04:53:45 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from grubby.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.9]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4621C4439D for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 04:53:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nl0006exch001h.wins.lucent.com (nl0006exch001h.nl.lucent.com [135.85.76.62]) by grubby.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3Q8rho11938 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 04:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nl0006exch001h.nl.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <2GN8AY6X>; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:53:42 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Unmehopa, Musa (Musa)" To: "'Alec Brusilovsky'" , SPIRITS list Subject: RE: [SPIRITS] Daniel Moreno's I-D on Mobility Management MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:53:42 +0200 Daniel, Thank you very much for authoring and posting the mobility events I-D. It provided a very interesting read. This is very useful in proceeding towards the completion of the SPIRITS protocol. I went through your document and have a couple of questions. I studied your DTDs and used 3G TS 29.002 as a reference. This specification contains the definition of the NoteMM-Event MAP operation from the VLR to the gsmSCF. I have some questions regarding some of the element definitions in your DTDs: MM_event_notify: ================ Why did you not include the ServiceKey? Wouldn't this be useful to identify the specific application at the SPIRITS Server? For instance, in section B.3.34 ServiceAddressInformation, defining SP_INAP_SAI.DTD, the ServiceKey is included. LocationInformation: ==================== I notice that you did not include VLR-number and MSC-number, althoug these are included in 3G TS 29.002 in the definition of LocationInformation. Was there any specific rationale for omitting these? Are these deemed insufficiently accurate? LSAIdentity: ============ As comment you state that the content is undefined, whreas in your main body of text you list 3G TS 23.073 as a reference. GeodeticInformation: ==================== Why did you specify this as a #PCDATA element? You did decide to detail out the definition of GeographicalInformation. Should these two definitions not be brought in line for consistency? E.g. GeographicalInformation: ======================== The Sign of Latitude bit in 3G TS 29.002 is only defined as part of the ellipsoid point definition. What is the rationale for introducing it at the top level of this element definition? CellIdOrLAI: ============ In 3G TS 29.002 this field is called cellGlobalIdOrServiceAreaIdOrLAI. What was the rationale for just using CellIdOrLAI? Basic_MSISDN: ============= Can the address definition from , section E.4.9 ADDRESS (SPIRITS_ADR.DTD) be used for this definition? This way we can reuse existing data definitions. Thank you and kind regards, Musa > -----Original Message----- > From: Alec Brusilovsky [mailto:abrusilovsky@lucent.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 20:36 > To: SPIRITS list > Subject: [SPIRITS] Daniel Moreno's I-D on Mobility Management > > > Ladies and Gentlemen, > > Please take a look at the new I-D "Mobility Events Management in > SPIRITS" that was posted by Daniel Moreno and is available from: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moreno-mobility-even ts-00.txt This I-D describes in detail mobility events as per SPIRITS Architecture and SPIRITS Protocol Requirements. Kind regards, Alec _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Mon Apr 29 10:46:31 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA14306 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3TEk9N12185; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:46:09 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3TEjVN12172 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:45:31 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Mon Apr 29 10:45:56 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id 850484439E; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.10]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ECDA4439D for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:45:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ih2mail.ih.lucent.com (ih2mail.ih.lucent.com [135.1.241.39]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3TEjNk37124 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:45:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lucent.com by ih2mail.ih.lucent.com (8.8.8+Sun/EMS-1.5 sol2) id JAA17181; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:45:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3CCD5C84.9060904@lucent.com> From: Alec Brusilovsky Organization: Lucent Technologies User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en,ru,uk MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SPIRITS list Cc: Steve Bellovin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [SPIRITS] Protocol and Mobility I-Ds --> WG I-Ds Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:45:24 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ladies and Gentlemen, As you well know, there are two important individual submissions available from the IETF repository: 1. The SPIRITS Protocol http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-gurbani-spirits-protocol-01.txt This I-D is a good attempt to describe and define SPIRITS protocol, according to the architecture in RFC 3136 and requirements in draft-ietf-spirits-reqs-04.txt, Informational RFC (approved by IESG, supposed to be in the RFC Editor queue.) We discussed this I-D in Minneapolis and authors are currently working on the next iteration of it. 2. Mobility Events Management in SPIRITS http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moreno-mobility-events-00.txt This I-D describes in detail mobility events as per SPIRITS Architecture and SPIRITS Protocol Requirements and will provide input to the "IN and Mobility Parameters and their XML Encoding" Informational RFC. Unless there are objections from the Group, I would like to propose to make these two documents WG I-Ds and ask their authors to re-submit the I-Ds as WG documents. Regards, Alec _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits From spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Tue Apr 30 04:20:14 2002 Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (share.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.58]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA10542 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 04:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from share.research.bell-labs.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g3U8K2N16651; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 04:20:02 -0400 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by share.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3U8JUN16629 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 04:19:30 -0400 Received: from lists.bell-labs.com ([135.104.27.211]) by dirty; Tue Apr 30 04:18:20 EDT 2002 Received: by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) id 19A9B4439E; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 04:17:49 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: spirits@sunny.research.bell-labs.com Received: from scummy.research.bell-labs.com (guard.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.10]) by lists.bell-labs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4E434439D for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 04:17:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dusty.research.bell-labs.com (dusty.research.bell-labs.com [135.104.2.7]) by scummy.research.bell-labs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g3U8Hlk04536 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 04:17:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from m2-pasarela3.airtel.es ([212.166.209.12]) by dusty; Tue Apr 30 04:13:10 EDT 2002 Subject: RE: [SPIRITS] Daniel Moreno's I-D on Mobility Management To: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com Cc: jgato@airtel.es X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.8 June 18, 2001 Message-ID: From: dmoreno@airtel.es X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on M2-SMTP3/AIRTEL(Release 5.0.5 |September 22, 2000) at 04/30/2002 10:17:44 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Errors-To: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com X-BeenThere: spirits@lists.bell-labs.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:17:28 +0200 Musa, Thanks for taking some time to read the mobility events I-D. I'll try to answer all your questions/suggestions in the same order you wrote them: MM_event_notify: ================ I didn't consider the inclusion of Service Key parameter because I thought it was more useful in environments where several network nodes can trigger different services in the gsmSCF, even from external network nodes, without much more information about the triggering origin. I thought that SPIRITS server wouldn't require so much complexity, as the SPIRITS server can identify every spirits client that is notifying an event. Anyway, it could be included in the mobility management parameters in order to tie in with , and to prevent possible restrictions in future implementations. LocationInformation: ==================== I think that these two elements wouldn't add any useful information, as they are used for routing to/from other network nodes (even to other external networks), but they don't provide real location information. These parameters are set by each network operator following internal rules for routing, with no information about physical location. What the SPIRITS server would receive in these two elements would be a Global Title parameter or a combination of Destination Point Code + Sub-System Number identifying the VLR/MSC. LSAIdentity: ============ As far as I know, this parameter is coded in different ways by network operators, depending on their service areas distribution. If the SPIRITS server doesn't know each operator's definition this element won't be useful. GeodeticInformation: ==================== You are absolutely right. I was not able to get a complete definition list for each of its parameters, so I decided to leave its DTD definition open. We can use the one you suggested. GeographicalInformation: ======================== I decided not to create too many sub-elements, so that's why I included all the geographical information elements into the same level. But your point of view is OK, so I can change it too. CellIdOrLAI: ============ I chose a shorter name for this parameter, but I'm not restricting the use of Service Area ID. I think it can be used as a valid value too. By the way, in some networks, Service Areas and Location Areas have the same ID values. Basic_MSISDN: ============= Yes. I agree with you that ADDRESS parameter can be reused for this definition. Kind regards, Daniel. jgato 26/04/2002 14:33 Asunto: RE: [SPIRITS] Daniel Moreno's I-D on Mobility Management Daniel, Por si no te ha llegado. Saludos, Jorge ---------------------- Remitido por jgato/AIRTEL con fecha 26/04/2002 14:32 --------------------------- "Unmehopa, Musa (Musa)" @lists.bell-labs.com con fecha 26/04/2002 10:53:42 Enviado por: spirits-admin@lists.bell-labs.com Asunto: RE: [SPIRITS] Daniel Moreno's I-D on Mobility Management Daniel, Thank you very much for authoring and posting the mobility events I-D. It provided a very interesting read. This is very useful in proceeding towards the completion of the SPIRITS protocol. I went through your document and have a couple of questions. I studied your DTDs and used 3G TS 29.002 as a reference. This specification contains the definition of the NoteMM-Event MAP operation from the VLR to the gsmSCF. I have some questions regarding some of the element definitions in your DTDs: MM_event_notify: ================ Why did you not include the ServiceKey? Wouldn't this be useful to identify the specific application at the SPIRITS Server? For instance, in section B.3.34 ServiceAddressInformation, defining SP_INAP_SAI.DTD, the ServiceKey is included. LocationInformation: ==================== I notice that you did not include VLR-number and MSC-number, althoug these are included in 3G TS 29.002 in the definition of LocationInformation. Was there any specific rationale for omitting these? Are these deemed insufficiently accurate? LSAIdentity: ============ As comment you state that the content is undefined, whreas in your main body of text you list 3G TS 23.073 as a reference. GeodeticInformation: ==================== Why did you specify this as a #PCDATA element? You did decide to detail out the definition of GeographicalInformation. Should these two definitions not be brought in line for consistency? E.g. GeographicalInformation: ======================== The Sign of Latitude bit in 3G TS 29.002 is only defined as part of the ellipsoid point definition. What is the rationale for introducing it at the top level of this element definition? CellIdOrLAI: ============ In 3G TS 29.002 this field is called cellGlobalIdOrServiceAreaIdOrLAI. What was the rationale for just using CellIdOrLAI? Basic_MSISDN: ============= Can the address definition from , section E.4.9 ADDRESS (SPIRITS_ADR.DTD) be used for this definition? This way we can reuse existing data definitions. Thank you and kind regards, Musa > -----Original Message----- > From: Alec Brusilovsky [mailto:abrusilovsky@lucent.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 20:36 > To: SPIRITS list > Subject: [SPIRITS] Daniel Moreno's I-D on Mobility Management > > > Ladies and Gentlemen, > > Please take a look at the new I-D "Mobility Events Management in > SPIRITS" that was posted by Daniel Moreno and is available from: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moreno-mobility-even ts-00.txt This I-D describes in detail mobility events as per SPIRITS Architecture and SPIRITS Protocol Requirements. Kind regards, Alec _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits _______________________________________________ SPIRITS mailing list SPIRITS@lists.bell-labs.com http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/spirits