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From ssm-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Oct 12 19:39:39 2004
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Consider a network operating in SSM and a dual homed multicast src
device.  Is there a standard way to setup the forwarding between the
routers and the src device to get the SSM trees built properly?  Seems
as if the device needs to eiter participate in routing and announce the
src IP or run something like HSRP.  Issues with these approaches?
Other options?

Thanks
Brian

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From ssm-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Oct 12 20:24:50 2004
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Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:11:07 -0400
From: Marshall Eubanks <marshall.eubanks@gmail.com>
To: "Field, Brian" <brian_field@cable.comcast.com>
Subject: Re: [ssm] Dual homed multicast src and SSM
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Dear Brian;

Routers set up trees, not edge devices (such as sources).

Generally, by "dual homed" you mean "part of an Autonomous System /
PIM domain with connections to two or more other AS / PIM Domains."
This is done by routers, so if your source is _directly_ connected
to interfaces leading to other domains, it will have to act like a
router and send and receive
PIM control traffic.

However, generally sources are not directly attached to other domains, and
sources and receivers do not participate in PIM and MBGP control
traffic. The internal multicast routing
protocol takes care of the tree creation inside the domain, and PIM
and MBGP take care of the
tree creation between domains.

So, this does not seem like a problem to me - SSM introduces nothing
new to multicast routing. If am
am missing something, please let me know.

Regards
Marshall Eubanks


On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:19:04 -0600, Field, Brian
<brian_field@cable.comcast.com> wrote:
> 
> Consider a network operating in SSM and a dual homed multicast src
> device.  Is there a standard way to setup the forwarding between the
> routers and the src device to get the SSM trees built properly?  Seems
> as if the device needs to eiter participate in routing and announce the
> src IP or run something like HSRP.  Issues with these approaches?
> Other options?
> 
> Thanks
> Brian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ssm mailing list
> ssm@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm
>

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From ssm-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Oct 13 14:33:47 2004
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From: Beau Williamson <bwilliam@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [ssm] Dual homed multicast src and SSM
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Brian,

There is nothing specific to SSM that would prevent the trees from being 
setup between one AS and another.  The fact that the source domain is 
dual-homed only means that there are two paths form where Joins can arrive 
(from other domains).  This is of course controlled with normal BGP metrics 
and is no different from hosts in other AS's wishing to "send" unicast 
traffic to the source host.

Beau
At 10/12/2004 06:19 PM, Field, Brian wrote:

>Consider a network operating in SSM and a dual homed multicast src
>device.  Is there a standard way to setup the forwarding between the
>routers and the src device to get the SSM trees built properly?  Seems
>as if the device needs to eiter participate in routing and announce the
>src IP or run something like HSRP.  Issues with these approaches?
>Other options?
>
>Thanks
>Brian
>
>_______________________________________________
>ssm mailing list
>ssm@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm


_______________________________________________
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm


From ssm-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Oct 13 15:14:39 2004
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From: "Field, Brian" <Brian_Field@cable.comcast.com>
To: Beau Williamson <bwilliam@cisco.com>, ssm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [ssm] Dual homed multicast src and SSM
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:55:17 -0600
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Sorry for the confusion.

By dual homed I mean a device which originates m-cast content and which is
connected to two routers.  All devices are in the same ASN.  In an SSM
environment, the S in the 
(S,G) would be an IP associated with this device.

So think of a unix box with two GEs connected to two different routers and
srcing traffic to an SSM channel.  

Since the device has two GEs, I'd like the unix box to be able to continue
to src content to (S,G) even when one of the GE Links fails (or we do maint
on one of the routers, etc.).  Think this means then that the S can't be
associated with a GE physical link IP but more like a loopback like IP
associated with the unix box.  So the question becomes, how do the directly
connected routers Construct the right state on their GE interfaces to accept
the Traffic being src'd by unix box.   

For this to work, does my unix box need to run PIM-SSM?  Or do I need to run
HSRP to 
have the unix box appear to be an interface on both routers?  Or ... ?

Thanks
Brian

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Beau Williamson [mailto:bwilliam@cisco.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 12:21 PM
> To: Field, Brian; ssm@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [ssm] Dual homed multicast src and SSM
> 
> Brian,
> 
> There is nothing specific to SSM that would prevent the trees 
> from being setup between one AS and another.  The fact that 
> the source domain is dual-homed only means that there are two 
> paths form where Joins can arrive (from other domains).  This 
> is of course controlled with normal BGP metrics and is no 
> different from hosts in other AS's wishing to "send" unicast 
> traffic to the source host.
> 
> Beau
> At 10/12/2004 06:19 PM, Field, Brian wrote:
> 
> >Consider a network operating in SSM and a dual homed multicast src
> >device.  Is there a standard way to setup the forwarding between the
> >routers and the src device to get the SSM trees built 
> properly?  Seems
> >as if the device needs to eiter participate in routing and 
> announce the
> >src IP or run something like HSRP.  Issues with these approaches?
> >Other options?
> >
> >Thanks
> >Brian
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >ssm mailing list
> >ssm@ietf.org
> >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm
> 

_______________________________________________
ssm mailing list
ssm@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm


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But what if the unix box fails??  Wouldn't it be better to have another box 
ready to take over the task?  This is anycast sources and would probably be 
a better solution.  The idea is that you have two sources in the network at 
different locations but using the same IP address.  The routers connected 
to these two sources each advertise routes to the source.  Each half of the 
network joins the SPT to nearest source based on the unicast routing 
information.  (Basic Anycasting).  Now if the GE link to the first source 
fails or the source itself fails then the only remaining route to the 
source is to the second source (which is using the same IP address).  Thus, 
in a perfect world, all the receivers in the network simple join to (S,G) 
via IGMPv3 and SSM. In a not so perfect world, we can accomplish the same 
thing with ASM.  We just have to have some RP's to bootstrap the flow via 
the Shared Tree and then just let the normal switch to the SPT do its thing.

If you still want to stick to the way you suggested (and ignore what 
happens if the source unix workstation fails) then you would have to write 
some code in the unix box to have it bring up the other GE interface when 
the first one fails.  Much harder to accomplish than the Anycast Sources I 
mentioned above.

Beau
At 10/13/2004 01:55 PM, Field, Brian wrote:

>Sorry for the confusion.
>
>By dual homed I mean a device which originates m-cast content and which is
>connected to two routers.  All devices are in the same ASN.  In an SSM
>environment, the S in the
>(S,G) would be an IP associated with this device.
>
>So think of a unix box with two GEs connected to two different routers and
>srcing traffic to an SSM channel.
>
>Since the device has two GEs, I'd like the unix box to be able to continue
>to src content to (S,G) even when one of the GE Links fails (or we do maint
>on one of the routers, etc.).  Think this means then that the S can't be
>associated with a GE physical link IP but more like a loopback like IP
>associated with the unix box.  So the question becomes, how do the directly
>connected routers Construct the right state on their GE interfaces to accept
>the Traffic being src'd by unix box.
>
>For this to work, does my unix box need to run PIM-SSM?  Or do I need to run
>HSRP to
>have the unix box appear to be an interface on both routers?  Or ... ?
>
>Thanks
>Brian
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Beau Williamson [mailto:bwilliam@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 12:21 PM
> > To: Field, Brian; ssm@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [ssm] Dual homed multicast src and SSM
> >
> > Brian,
> >
> > There is nothing specific to SSM that would prevent the trees
> > from being setup between one AS and another.  The fact that
> > the source domain is dual-homed only means that there are two
> > paths form where Joins can arrive (from other domains).  This
> > is of course controlled with normal BGP metrics and is no
> > different from hosts in other AS's wishing to "send" unicast
> > traffic to the source host.
> >
> > Beau
> > At 10/12/2004 06:19 PM, Field, Brian wrote:
> >
> > >Consider a network operating in SSM and a dual homed multicast src
> > >device.  Is there a standard way to setup the forwarding between the
> > >routers and the src device to get the SSM trees built
> > properly?  Seems
> > >as if the device needs to eiter participate in routing and
> > announce the
> > >src IP or run something like HSRP.  Issues with these approaches?
> > >Other options?
> > >
> > >Thanks
> > >Brian
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >ssm mailing list
> > >ssm@ietf.org
> > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm
> >

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<html>
<body>
But what if the unix box fails??&nbsp; Wouldn't it be better to have
another box ready to take over the task?&nbsp; This is anycast sources
and would probably be a better solution.&nbsp; The idea is that you have
two sources in the network at different locations but using the same IP
address.&nbsp; The routers connected to these two sources each advertise
routes to the source.&nbsp; Each half of the network joins the SPT to
nearest source based on the unicast routing information.&nbsp; (Basic
Anycasting).&nbsp; Now if the GE link to the first source fails <i>or the
source itself fails </i>then the only remaining route to the source is to
the second source (which is using the same IP address).&nbsp; Thus, in a
perfect world, all the receivers in the network simple join to (S,G) via
IGMPv3 and SSM. In a not so perfect world, we can accomplish the same
thing with ASM.&nbsp; We just have to have some RP's to bootstrap the
flow via the Shared Tree and then just let the normal switch to the SPT
do its thing.<br><br>
If you still want to stick to the way you suggested (and ignore what
happens if the source unix workstation fails) then you would have to
write some code in the unix box to have it bring up the other GE
interface when the first one fails.&nbsp; Much harder to accomplish than
the Anycast Sources I mentioned above.<br><br>
Beau<br>
At 10/13/2004 01:55 PM, Field, Brian wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite>Sorry for the confusion.<br><br>
By dual homed I mean a device which originates m-cast content and which
is<br>
connected to two routers.&nbsp; All devices are in the same ASN.&nbsp; In
an SSM<br>
environment, the S in the <br>
(S,G) would be an IP associated with this device.<br><br>
So think of a unix box with two GEs connected to two different routers
and<br>
srcing traffic to an SSM channel.&nbsp; <br><br>
Since the device has two GEs, I'd like the unix box to be able to
continue<br>
to src content to (S,G) even when one of the GE Links fails (or we do
maint<br>
on one of the routers, etc.).&nbsp; Think this means then that the S
can't be<br>
associated with a GE physical link IP but more like a loopback like
IP<br>
associated with the unix box.&nbsp; So the question becomes, how do the
directly<br>
connected routers Construct the right state on their GE interfaces to
accept<br>
the Traffic being src'd by unix box.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br><br>
For this to work, does my unix box need to run PIM-SSM?&nbsp; Or do I
need to run<br>
HSRP to <br>
have the unix box appear to be an interface on both routers?&nbsp; Or ...
?<br><br>
Thanks<br>
Brian<br><br>
&nbsp;<br><br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Beau Williamson
[<a href=3D"mailto:bwilliam@cisco.com" eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:bwilliam@ci=
sco.com</a>]
<br>
&gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 12:21 PM<br>
&gt; To: Field, Brian; ssm@ietf.org<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [ssm] Dual homed multicast src and SSM<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Brian,<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; There is nothing specific to SSM that would prevent the trees <br>
&gt; from being setup between one AS and another.&nbsp; The fact that
<br>
&gt; the source domain is dual-homed only means that there are two <br>
&gt; paths form where Joins can arrive (from other domains).&nbsp; This
<br>
&gt; is of course controlled with normal BGP metrics and is no <br>
&gt; different from hosts in other AS's wishing to &quot;send&quot;
unicast <br>
&gt; traffic to the source host.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Beau<br>
&gt; At 10/12/2004 06:19 PM, Field, Brian wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;Consider a network operating in SSM and a dual homed multicast
src<br>
&gt; &gt;device.&nbsp; Is there a standard way to setup the forwarding
between the<br>
&gt; &gt;routers and the src device to get the SSM trees built <br>
&gt; properly?&nbsp; Seems<br>
&gt; &gt;as if the device needs to eiter participate in routing and=20
<br>
&gt; announce the<br>
&gt; &gt;src IP or run something like HSRP.&nbsp; Issues with these
approaches?<br>
&gt; &gt;Other options?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;Thanks<br>
&gt; &gt;Brian<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;_______________________________________________<br>
&gt; &gt;ssm mailing list<br>
&gt; &gt;ssm@ietf.org<br>
&gt;
&gt;<a href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm"=
 eudora=3D"autourl">https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ssm</a><br>
&gt; </blockquote></body>
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