From nobody Sat May 9 15:51:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A2121A1B3C; Sat, 9 May 2015 15:51:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6cNyCHKwctWy; Sat, 9 May 2015 15:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 135EE1A1AA3; Sat, 9 May 2015 15:51:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Barry Leiba" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.2.p2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150509225112.17687.99824.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 09 May 2015 15:51:12 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org, Victor Pascual , draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org, straw-chairs@ietf.org, straw@ietf.org, draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org Subject: [straw] Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 May 2015 22:51:13 -0000 Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a DISCUSS purely because I want to discuss it; whatever the result is, I will be clearing the DISCUSS, and not delaying the document on this point: The end of Section 1 (and other places) seems to say that this document updates 7092 by giving new mandatory behaviour for certain types of B2BUAs. Am I misunderstanding that, or should this document formally "update" 7092? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Section 1 -- For these and other reasons, B2BUAs were already being used by SIP domains for other SIP and media-related purposes began to use proprietary mechanisms to enable SIP devices behind NATs to communicate across the NAT. I can't parse that sentence. The "began" doesn't seem to be the right part of speech, or maybr the second "for" is wrong. Something, anyway. From nobody Sun May 10 21:05:30 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A74771A039A; Sun, 10 May 2015 21:05:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KqVwFlM9RLvu; Sun, 10 May 2015 21:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D2FA1A0398; Sun, 10 May 2015 21:05:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3327; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1431317128; x=1432526728; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=cniW6cCR1XLWSmGAKi44wb/ffbQz6/wKctvaqaDAQtU=; b=cXsSsGnZJbT44NayYkmo8aJ3DG4bIIhJQYVvtAVsCZzMTZwRrmorbBqU n9vw+mwuaS6asdtG+q9PPEvnbdYjxb1sp2Goc0C6oPZC05anXiQPn5alp SBlANq1ICf3VtqdJsXrN4xKvl43qtNhWOMHT0v8ZKfFT6UCbXMeONvhLp s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0BoBQBZKVBV/5BdJa1cDoMBgTIGzEwCgSRMAQEBAQEBgQuEIAEBAQQ6PwwCAgIBCA4DAwECHxAbFx0IAgQBDQWILMZaAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBFwSLNYUFBwaEJwEEhl+LXopjgSSDWo4Eg1Ujgzk+bwGBRIEBAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,404,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="418566624" Received: from rcdn-core-8.cisco.com ([173.37.93.144]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 May 2015 04:05:27 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com [173.37.183.88]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4B45FQb030335 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 May 2015 04:05:16 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.82]) by xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([173.37.183.88]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sun, 10 May 2015 23:05:15 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Nevil Brownlee , "ops-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.all@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05 Thread-Index: AQHQi3xPryGCf+tqRU22v2Ro0UVXc5122KUA Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 04:05:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <554FEEFF.1080307@auckland.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <554FEEFF.1080307@auckland.ac.nz> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [10.65.36.66] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <59107E2E8365A64E95111D05A313C785@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Ben Campbell , "straw@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [straw] Review of draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05 X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 04:05:28 -0000 Hi Nevil, Thanks a lot for your review. Please see inline -----Original Message----- From: Nevil Brownlee Date: Monday, 11 May 2015 5:21 am To: "ops-dir@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.all@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Review of draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05 Resent-From: Resent-To: Resent-Date: Monday, 11 May 2015 5:21 am >Hi all: > >I have performed an Operations Directorate review of > draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05 > > "Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) > are often designed to be on the media path, rather than just > intercepting signaling. This means that B2BUAs often act on the > media path leading to separate media legs that the B2BUA correlates > and bridges together. When acting on the media path, B2BUAs are > likely to receive Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) packets > as part of Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) processing. > > This document defines behavior for a B2BUA performing ICE processing. > The goal of this draft is to ensure that B2BUAs properly handle STUN > messages received as part of the ICE procedures used for NAT and > Firewall traversal of multimedia sessions." > >- - - - > >At first sight this draft this draft contains a lot of SIP-related >acronyms. However, most of them are clearly explained, and the intent >of the draft is clear. In particular, the draft spells out exactly >how Back-to-Back User Agents must behave in the situations outlined >in its abstract (above). I can see that this hasn't been clear in >the past, so this draft will clearly be useful. > >Overall, a good document, ready for publication. > >One question: > >s4.3, first para: /but does not otherwise require it can do/ > I don't think this is clear - do you mean "require it to do" > or "require that it can do"? Can you re-word this to make it > clearer exactly what is intended? OLD: If a B2BUA is willing to be in the media path if needed for NAT traversal, but does not otherwise require it can do the following steps mentioned in this section. NEW: A B2BUA willing to be in the media path only for NAT traversal, but does not otherwise require to be in the media path can do the following steps mentioned in this section. Is this better ? > >A few typos: > >s4.1, para 2: s/behaviour B2BUA's MUST follow/behaviour B2BUAs MUST >follow/ > /(ice-frag and ice-pwd / has no closing parenthesis > >s4.2, third bullet: s/B2BUAs candidates/B2BUA's candidates/ > >p8, 3rd-to-last bullet of s4.2: > s/and have two ICE contexts/and has two ICE contexts/ Thanks. Will incorporate all the typos in the next revision. Regards, Ram > >Cheers, Nevil >Co-chair, EMAN WG >Ex Co-chair, IPFIX WG (now closed) > >--=20 >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department > Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland > FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand From nobody Sun May 10 21:17:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53F0D1A0AC8; Sun, 10 May 2015 21:17:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t643sGECS4U6; Sun, 10 May 2015 21:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61FD91A06E9; Sun, 10 May 2015 21:17:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3041; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1431317842; x=1432527442; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=Lh05JSgy7sNSmBf5umiM9BbaKaMe7IAMidGXKIvtn90=; b=UpqFLcLHC2LxD9j91nJ/TawXqivnKI081uueC6qfa/juk9BeYvSkBI8u 7hCDhQ6pwgv3KYcofM7SBT7iuMf/3n/7ve71QHSPZoJwLuk3LFWTFLUHo dOEcMAD7iOBubIuDHxwMuRHVa2azJ/NTM9nbOyoowPZrLL6me40EuJqiu A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0BqBQAKLFBV/5ldJa1cgw9UXgbGR4YFAoEkTAEBAQEBAYELhCABAQEEOj8MBAIBCBEDAQIfECERHQgCBAENBYgXAxINwTINhRIBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBIs5gk2BVREBUQIFBoQnBYZfi16EHoRwgVWBJINaihJXhnAjYYFZgT1vAYELOYEBAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,404,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="415496885" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 May 2015 04:17:21 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com [173.37.183.87]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4B4HLBq013518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 May 2015 04:17:21 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.82]) by xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com ([173.37.183.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sun, 10 May 2015 23:17:21 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Barry Leiba , The IESG Thread-Topic: Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHQi6FfSUP4Ojuowk+i2Nm/f6lFzg== Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 04:17:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150509225112.17687.99824.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150509225112.17687.99824.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [10.65.36.66] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <09F5A1B0E2FB164A98C9C6D61763164D@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [straw] Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 04:17:24 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: Barry Leiba Date: Sunday, 10 May 2015 4:21 am To: The IESG Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "straw@ietf.org" Subject: Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for >draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: Discuss > >When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >introductory paragraph, however.) > > >Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > >The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >DISCUSS: >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >This is a DISCUSS purely because I want to discuss it; whatever the >result is, I will be clearing the DISCUSS, and not delaying the document >on this point: The end of Section 1 (and other places) seems to say that >this document updates 7092 by giving new mandatory behaviour for certain >types of B2BUAs. Am I misunderstanding that, or should this document >formally "update" 7092? This document does not update RFC 7092. 7092 defines different types of B2BUAs. This document defines STUN messages handles for those types. > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >COMMENT: >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >-- Section 1 -- > > For these > and other reasons, B2BUAs were already being used by SIP domains for > other SIP and media-related purposes began to use proprietary > mechanisms to enable SIP devices behind NATs to communicate across > the NAT. > >I can't parse that sentence. The "began" doesn't seem to be the right >part of speech, or maybr the second "for" is wrong. Something, anyway. I will re-word this to below. Is this better? OLD: For these and other reasons, B2BUAs were already being used by SIP domains for other SIP and media-related purposes began to use proprietary mechanisms to enable SIP devices behind NATs to communicate across the NAT. NEW: For these reasons, B2BUAs were being used by SIP domains for SIP and media-related purposes. These B2BUAs use proprietary mechanisms to enable SIP devices behind NATs to communicate across the NAT. Regards, Ram > > From nobody Sun May 10 22:30:31 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83FF51A1A9A; Sun, 10 May 2015 22:30:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pYrpCwsJzBH5; Sun, 10 May 2015 22:30:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDFFF1A1A8A; Sun, 10 May 2015 22:30:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1436; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1431322227; x=1432531827; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=qkLpjjmhlgQXCP7ZLwFQlx6lSxtSfxF8korvJxoQGUI=; b=l0ms6+ffBKUsy6A0sddWcQkMyGoa9f9he8SasdnuPN/cCOpaNgMlqH4u j+xuuweUkVh6q7aiNQXhEIOT4E+N8Ov5HoQEZYXHTLNpGf2SbNHjNO5VV LEc/IJTKBmsGCnH1t+Gxszi/mlt6swAmRgGKZx7Q1yFxj5rUJo4u9k1G5 g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0CeBACNPVBV/5pdJa1cgw+BMgbEaAmHXQKBJTgUAQEBAQEBAYEKhCABAQEEOj8MBAIBCBEDAQIfECERHQgCBAENBYgXAxLBXg2FEgEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAReLOYJNgjgHBoQnAQSSPYkOgVWBJI1sV4ZwI2GBWYE9bwGBRIEBAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,404,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="148902596" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 May 2015 05:30:26 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com [173.36.12.83]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4B5UQ9D003604 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 11 May 2015 05:30:26 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.82]) by xhc-aln-x09.cisco.com ([173.36.12.83]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 11 May 2015 00:30:26 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Barry Leiba , The IESG Thread-Topic: Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHQi6uVrnVwPkxAfUujNyYXIt2IBA== Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 05:30:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150509225112.17687.99824.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [10.65.47.31] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4DAB4831F84C134BA3FBC0D3C58225E6@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [straw] Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 05:30:29 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: Cisco Employee Date: Monday, 11 May 2015 9:47 am To: Barry Leiba , The IESG Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "straw@ietf.org" Subject: Re: Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>This is a DISCUSS purely because I want to discuss it; whatever the >>result is, I will be clearing the DISCUSS, and not delaying the document >>on this point: The end of Section 1 (and other places) seems to say that >>this document updates 7092 by giving new mandatory behaviour for certain >>types of B2BUAs. Am I misunderstanding that, or should this document >>formally "update" 7092? > >This document does not update RFC 7092. 7092 defines different types of >B2BUAs. This document defines STUN messages handles for those types. Typo in the above sentence. It should be: This document does not update RFC 7092. 7092 defines different types of B2BUAs. This document defines how STUN messages are handled by those B2BUAs. Ram From nobody Mon May 11 08:50:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3D871ACDC0; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:50:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oMVJh23PGEGt; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22d.google.com (mail-wi0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18FB51ACDD1; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wizk4 with SMTP id k4so111211327wiz.1; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:50:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=ifsdakpAsGAfpq5T3y8ECsLB2dYJU6Tw3LZzkHHtb3E=; b=nTs15PTSU8lDiPcaTrhvWe367GjVuQXzfqccGKeeIAU0Odqkmxd0xHir7hB54UkseX ZWnj0ssEJzvd300nYpR40az0YHJi9b+eAUHe4gt9mSgKSR+8fX/8QZUW3lcGTv21CFCt tV2KxBrtCx0nhf5FGrJCaA7+lYrswhh5AVV96aWlFvfNw67s3HwvnbfBqps3GNwnyQyI ROZVF8MgCRwGzrW4PSEkvLbQj8Bkun+sxoYVNQDals1mTNgz3hnF1D3nqGlBeBzBPDdi X/MgaLBzkdSl62pBS5Q3t424EtCj0/1/MRUbsDwUYgjtOOU2CMxouPqAThoIL5v1JPbH yc1A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.107.70 with SMTP id ha6mr20377405wib.20.1431359438863; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com Received: by 10.194.237.234 with HTTP; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:50:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20150509225112.17687.99824.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 16:50:38 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: yEM9qRwfatA8TfzjSqfx7-5WAa8 Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , The IESG Subject: Re: [straw] Barry Leiba's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 15:50:44 -0000 >>This is a DISCUSS purely because I want to discuss it; whatever the >>result is, I will be clearing the DISCUSS, and not delaying the document >>on this point: The end of Section 1 (and other places) seems to say that >>this document updates 7092 by giving new mandatory behaviour for certain >>types of B2BUAs. Am I misunderstanding that, or should this document >>formally "update" 7092? > > This document does not update RFC 7092. 7092 defines different types of > B2BUAs. This document defines STUN messages handles for those types. A bit of a longer answer or a different spin would have helped, but I just gave 7092 a closer read, and I agree with you. The point is that 7092 doesn't *define* the B2BUAs, in the sense of a protocol definition. I would say that 7092 *describes* them, by saying that a B2BUA that does [this] is called [that]. Given that, I think you're right that there's no update here, and I'll clear my discuss forthwith. Thanks for the response. >>-- Section 1 -- >> >> For these >> and other reasons, B2BUAs were already being used by SIP domains for >> other SIP and media-related purposes began to use proprietary >> mechanisms to enable SIP devices behind NATs to communicate across >> the NAT. >> >>I can't parse that sentence. The "began" doesn't seem to be the right >>part of speech, or maybr the second "for" is wrong. Something, anyway. > > I will re-word this to below. Is this better? > > OLD: > For these > and other reasons, B2BUAs were already being used by SIP domains for > other SIP and media-related purposes began to use proprietary > mechanisms to enable SIP devices behind NATs to communicate across > the NAT. > > NEW: > For these reasons, B2BUAs were being used by SIP domains for > SIP and media-related purposes. These B2BUAs use proprietary > mechanisms to enable SIP devices behind NATs to communicate across > the NAT. Ah, yes, I see what you're saying now. Yes, the new sentences are better, and thanks for that too. Barry From nobody Mon May 11 08:52:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE1491A6EFB; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:52:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ByBggvb0w81v; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 895661A1B84; Mon, 11 May 2015 08:52:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Barry Leiba" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.2.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150511155206.22863.5679.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 08:52:06 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org, Victor Pascual , draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org, straw-chairs@ietf.org, straw@ietf.org, draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org Subject: [straw] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 15:52:08 -0000 Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Section 1 -- For these and other reasons, B2BUAs were already being used by SIP domains for other SIP and media-related purposes began to use proprietary mechanisms to enable SIP devices behind NATs to communicate across the NAT. I can't parse that sentence. The "began" doesn't seem to be the right part of speech, or maybr the second "for" is wrong. Something, anyway. Update: the author has provided good replacement text: NEW: For these reasons, B2BUAs were being used by SIP domains for SIP and media-related purposes. These B2BUAs use proprietary mechanisms to enable SIP devices behind NATs to communicate across the NAT. END From nobody Mon May 11 20:35:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E5F1A006B; Mon, 11 May 2015 20:35:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cLIs22iK89kD; Mon, 11 May 2015 20:35:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD82C1A0066; Mon, 11 May 2015 20:35:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Spencer Dawkins" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.2.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150512033532.11689.59087.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 20:35:32 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org, Victor Pascual , draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org, straw-chairs@ietf.org, straw@ietf.org, draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org Subject: [straw] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 03:35:34 -0000 Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- No objection, but a couple of places where the text seemed rough: In this text: For these and other reasons, B2BUAs were already being used by SIP domains for other SIP and media-related purposes began to use proprietary mechanisms to enable SIP devices behind NATs to communicate across the NAT. Does this sentence parse? In this text: The most commonly used approach to solve these issues is "restricted-latching", whereby the B2BUA will not latch to any packets from a source public IP address other than the one the SIP UA uses for SIP signaling. Is the phrase "will not latch to" clear to the intended reader? The sentence is defining a type of latching, but there's not a description of what latching means in the general sense. The following section says terms are defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7092, but I didn't see "latch" in a quick text search over there. Is the reference to https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7362 earlier in the paragraph also to the description of "latching"? In this text: o A B2BUA that acts as a simple media relay effectively unaware of anything that is transported and only modifies the transport header (could be UDP/IP) of the media packets. o A B2BUA that performs a media-aware role. It inspects and potentially modifies RTP or RTP Control Protocol (RTCP) headers; but it does not modify the payload of RTP/RTCP. o A B2BUA that performs a media-termination role and operates at the media payload layer, such as RTP/RTCP payload (e.g., a transcoder). When such a B2BUA operating on a media plane is involved in a session between two endpoints performing ICE, then it MUST follow the behavior described in Section 4. I"m reading "such a B2BUA" as a reference to the third bullet, but it would be clearer to me if both places used the same terms ("operates at the media payload layer" vs. "operating on a media plane"). From nobody Tue May 12 03:08:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E3FF1A879B; Tue, 12 May 2015 03:08:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v2jlKHd8SZ7B; Tue, 12 May 2015 03:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2A441A877A; Tue, 12 May 2015 03:08:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Benoit Claise" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.2.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150512100843.11445.42573.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 03:08:43 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org, Victor Pascual , draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org, straw-chairs@ietf.org, straw@ietf.org, draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org Subject: [straw] Benoit Claise's No Record on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 10:08:45 -0000 Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: No Record When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing Nevil Brownlee's OPS-DIR feedback. Regards, Benoit From nobody Tue May 12 04:46:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A34D1A8AE7; Tue, 12 May 2015 04:46:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pNgBPke0Trhm; Tue, 12 May 2015 04:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8856B1A8AB5; Tue, 12 May 2015 04:45:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Benoit Claise" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.2.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150512114559.18285.72048.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 04:45:59 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org, Victor Pascual , draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org, straw-chairs@ietf.org, straw@ietf.org, draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org Subject: [straw] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 11:46:04 -0000 Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing Nevil Brownlee's OPS-DIR feedback. Regards, Benoit From nobody Tue May 12 05:40:28 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5131F1B2BF8; Tue, 12 May 2015 05:40:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LpikmcLPA4_Q; Tue, 12 May 2015 05:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6EE91ACD11; Tue, 12 May 2015 05:40:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4561; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1431434422; x=1432644022; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=teEVPuxUAbpdGx5yOCenWEvV+GQmDVxVFzVy4QO/VPc=; b=NOFGZsQHYF4642jkPzUaMpBM4td6gvIY9BTIP86AVgKikqw84AXkLwk7 i3Sy/q4O9N9PT9wYo7d4cREFTkVDot1VaXKEp2dtaSfefHJXVaa1bjrxB Xs7EHN0isrDQew1shZL45RFE+JsoKE5Y38H/0Y7IK0TW6HLPtX+gSn2sE U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0BQBAD+81FV/4sNJK1cgw9UXgbFGwmBWIYFAoE8OBQBAQEBAQEBgQqEIAEBAQR5DAQCAQgRAwECLyERHQgCBAENBYgXAxINxBINhREBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBIs5gk2BVREBUQIFBoQnBYZihQuGYIQlhHGBVYEkg16KdIZ0I2GBWYE9bwGBCzmBAQEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,415,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="149346735" Received: from alln-core-6.cisco.com ([173.36.13.139]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 May 2015 12:40:21 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com [173.37.183.87]) by alln-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4CCeKQd017107 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 May 2015 12:40:21 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.121]) by xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com ([173.37.183.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 12 May 2015 07:40:20 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Spencer Dawkins , The IESG , "straw@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHQjLDOxdWivb6+S0eSU4pgABUm2A== Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 12:40:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150512033532.11689.59087.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150512033532.11689.59087.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [10.65.45.241] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual Subject: Re: [straw] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 12:40:24 -0000 Hi Spencer, Please see inline -----Original Message----- From: Spencer Dawkins Date: Tuesday, 12 May 2015 9:05 am To: The IESG Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "straw@ietf.org" Subject: Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) >Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for >draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: No Objection > >When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >introductory paragraph, however.) > > >Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > >The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >COMMENT: >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >No objection, but a couple of places where the text seemed rough: > >In this text: > > For these > and other reasons, B2BUAs were already being used by SIP domains for > other SIP and media-related purposes began to use proprietary > mechanisms to enable SIP devices behind NATs to communicate across > the NAT. > =20 >Does this sentence parse? This comment was already given by Barry and we have proposed a new text as below. Let me know if this sounds better NEW: For these reasons, B2BUAs are being used by SIP domains for SIP and media-related purposes. These B2BUAs use proprietary mechanisms to enable SIP devices behind NATs to communicate across the NAT. > >In this text: > > The most commonly used approach to solve these issues is > "restricted-latching", whereby the B2BUA will not latch to any > packets from a source public IP address other than the one the SIP UA > uses for SIP signaling. > =20 >Is the phrase "will not latch to" clear to the intended reader? The >sentence is defining a type of latching, but there's not a description of >what latching means in the general sense. The following section says >terms are defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7092, but I didn't >see "latch" in a quick text search over there. Is the reference to >https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7362 earlier in the paragraph also to the >description of "latching"? Latching is defined in RFC7362. Will add reference to this RFC in that line. New proposed text is below. Is this better ? NEW: The most commonly used approach to solve these issues is restricted-latching defined in section 5 of [RFC7362], whereby the B2BUA will not latch to any packets from a source public IP address other than the one the SIP UA uses for SIP signalling. > >In this text: > > o A B2BUA that acts as a simple media relay effectively unaware of > anything that is transported and only modifies the transport > header (could be UDP/IP) of the media packets. > > o A B2BUA that performs a media-aware role. It inspects and > potentially modifies RTP or RTP Control Protocol (RTCP) headers; > but it does not modify the payload of RTP/RTCP. > > o A B2BUA that performs a media-termination role and operates at the > media payload layer, such as RTP/RTCP payload (e.g., a > transcoder). > > When such a B2BUA operating on a media plane is involved in a session > between two endpoints performing ICE, then it MUST follow the > behavior described in Section 4. > =20 >I"m reading "such a B2BUA" as a reference to the third bullet, but it >would be clearer to me if both places used the same terms ("operates at >the media payload layer" vs. "operating on a media plane"). Note that the section 4 is applicable for B2BUAs operating on media plane (all three types above). Will fix this to say NEW: "When B2BUAs that operate on media plane (media relay, media-aware or media-termination) is involved in a session........=B2 Is this better ? Regards, Ram > > From nobody Tue May 12 13:46:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 378BD1AD0B8 for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 13:46:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 60EBQWSkL_zz for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 13:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qc0-f178.google.com (mail-qc0-f178.google.com [209.85.216.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D075C1AD09D for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 13:46:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qcvo8 with SMTP id o8so11753818qcv.0 for ; Tue, 12 May 2015 13:46:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TI+SCnLieHz2br3H8D/yY3c9oMDAgE7wDWR8pe7R6Ek=; b=nGNpkdkHFjFtTnF9cJy6LpQG5KPsKuyBo/ZYbbTFn2qnqPxPfyYp0FIGw/0rFo6wV9 SXYga0/85+w4samPWAOeS8Tx/raKo5PwOd3QjXM8ZTllX/YSYi2mCv4T3BjTfenXxvqb 1l8uPUgYjzzvpllMf4wRcsn3e5RCjmreEO0PmFZRfyyiHkFxaDCAHN2EFbVLm2y70NYn xFNwD2pYUTRnpo/nMtJIt9aMKx2IKpesjGHNx9elMbr88R0gymJuX9/bhAX/dSqNgaCb FUR2dI/00FTPvoo2vv6qqgezCxKHaY4Tbero3jp2thZct/VTy1MFj679eR2g9ocnMCLl 2otQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkwS55fVfvlsU+X44xjMlnmbSKKBoU+m8A4A0v+LSSwkZ6g9NBoBJ7q9s1I/uC3hNSY6rrz X-Received: by 10.55.54.6 with SMTP id d6mr35710852qka.77.1431463566115; Tue, 12 May 2015 13:46:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.131] ([24.53.47.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id 20sm14048110qhf.14.2015.05.12.13.46.04 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 12 May 2015 13:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5552668B.1090408@jive.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 16:46:03 -0400 From: Simon Perreault User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: straw@ietf.org, draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@tools.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [straw] Review of draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-00 X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 20:46:08 -0000 Here's my overview of draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-00. This is coming from the point of view of someone having implementation experience with both SRTP and DTLS-SRTP. Overall, the draft does not offer much practical, usable advice. I don't really see what questions this draft is answering. Now, I know the topic pretty well, so maybe I'm not in the target audience. But still, does anyone find this draft useful? It seems to me there's not much meat on the bone... Section "1.1. Overview" contains: > DTLS-SRTP is defined for point-to-point > media sessions, in which there are exactly two participants. Each > DTLS-SRTP session contains a single DTLS association, and either two > SRTP contexts (if media traffic is flowing in both directions on the > same host/port quartet) or one SRTP context (if media traffic is only > flowing in one direction). - Do you have a reference for the term "DTLS-SRTP session"? - "host/port quartet" is more commonly called "5-tuple". - This overview seems to disregard the effects of SIP forking. It might be worth pointing out that a single SIP INVITE may generate N DTLS associations after forking. Simon From nobody Tue May 12 16:54:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8861A1EF1; Tue, 12 May 2015 16:54:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wgmYUgBTNmhZ; Tue, 12 May 2015 16:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 790EB1A1BF3; Tue, 12 May 2015 16:54:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen Farrell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.2.p3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 16:54:38 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org, Victor Pascual , draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org, straw-chairs@ietf.org, straw@ietf.org, draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org Subject: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 23:54:40 -0000 Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - 4.2, but maybe also elsewhere: should such a b2bua be REQUIRED to announce itself as a b2bua that forces itself into the media stream in some manner? Or more broadly, if we are now (for the 1st time?) standardising b2bua behaviours, then ought we mandate that such entities make their prescence or even some flavour of their functionality known in-band? Even if we do not mandate such behaviour, shouldn't we at least define how a b2bua that wants to be visible ought do that? (And if we have done the above already, or discussed and discarded the above already, then great, and that shows how much I know:-) From nobody Wed May 13 02:11:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 490D61AC40F; Wed, 13 May 2015 02:11:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XL4uK_oQfpFM; Wed, 13 May 2015 02:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3601A1AC402; Wed, 13 May 2015 02:11:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4159; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1431508315; x=1432717915; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=0497gr52Z3NjeeY0v9jxI/FCx/MX+0FgYWgFqljyCT8=; b=Ebs/i6Z2CstC5DoyregpvmcQCUfyHXjmMExtgUXC+65i9ueLUuJT6Aj/ xAW1JwZD5VlwItQWi15f2/xp+O/qrRJvYd865yKM+W01TJngDNIGpHmnr pfVRetBLqr10YIBH0A6AqxYem432yKwTFc/2ozSsDD0ZytAJaUwT8hAYF o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AUBQAlFFNV/5NdJa1cDoMBVF4GxmGFN04CgTlMAQEBAQEBgQuEIAEBAQQ6PwwEAgEIEQMBAh8QIREdCAIEAQ0FiBcDEg3CfA2EfAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARMEizqCTYFVEAIBJSsCBQIEhCcFhmKLdIQnhHSBVYElg2OKeIZ2I2GBWX8+bwGBRIEBAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,420,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="419295455" Received: from rcdn-core-11.cisco.com ([173.37.93.147]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 May 2015 09:11:54 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com [173.36.12.85]) by rcdn-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4D9Bs6R028826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 May 2015 09:11:54 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.121]) by xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com ([173.36.12.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 13 May 2015 04:11:54 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Kathleen Moriarty , The IESG , Sam Hartman Thread-Topic: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHQjVza2EvPz51Q5EmSXxBoUPkWGg== Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 09:11:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150511210728.30385.81566.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150511210728.30385.81566.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [173.39.66.94] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [straw] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 09:11:57 -0000 Hi Kathleen, Sam, I am responding to SecDir comments in this thread itself. 1)For the first comment on refining the abstract here the proposed text OLD: Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) are often designed to be on the media path, rather than just intercepting signaling. This means that B2BUAs often act on the media path leading to separate media legs that the B2BUA correlates and bridges together. When acting on the media path, B2BUAs are likely to receive Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) packets as part of Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) processing. This document defines behavior for a B2BUA performing ICE processing. The goal of this draft is to ensure that B2BUAs properly handle STUN messages received as part of the ICE procedures used for NAT and Firewall traversal of multimedia sessions. NEW: Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) are often designed to be on the media path, rather than just intercepting signaling. This means that B2BUAs often act on the media path leading to separate media legs that the B2BUA correlates and bridges together. When acting on the media path, B2BUAs are likely to receive Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) packets as part of Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) processing. This document defines behavior for a B2BUA performing ICE processing. The goal of this draft is to ensure that B2BUAs properly handles SIP Messages that carry ICE semantics in Session Description Protocol(SDP) and STUN messages received as part of the ICE procedures for NAT and Firewall traversal of multimedia sessions. 2)For the second comment on having some text in introduction that talks about the goals of this draft, here is a new paragraph we will add (after 4th para). NEW: This document describes proper behavior of B2BUAs performing ICE processing. This includes defining consistent handling of SIP messages carrying ICE semantics in SDP and STUN messages received as part of the ICE procedures performed on the media path for NAT and Firewall traversal of multimedia sessions. Please let me know if these changes are ok. I will send the diffs to the WG once you agree on these changes. Regards, Ram -----Original Message----- From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Tuesday, 12 May 2015 2:37 am To: The IESG Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "straw@ietf.org" Subject: Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) >Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for >draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: No Objection > >When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >introductory paragraph, however.) > > >Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > >The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >COMMENT: >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >I just finished reading this draft and agree with the SecDir review >assessment that this draft does not add additional security >considerations. The SecDir reviewer had some good points on the abstract >and introduction that I do think would be helpful to improve the >readability of the draft and would like you to consider these updates. > >https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/secdir/current/msg05687.html > > From nobody Wed May 13 05:31:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1ED71A8902; Wed, 13 May 2015 05:31:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XPrDuU2_BUFp; Wed, 13 May 2015 05:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E98DD1A88EB; Wed, 13 May 2015 05:30:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2218; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1431520260; x=1432729860; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=6pxcMjd0M/nwW0kMPASiJZprP1W3tesjHWNH2aftlok=; b=HU1uoxfTi67xUlmqzc0v+7DpvDDc5Vx4itVul0Y7RPhmFLJ2kodjDfv+ wWH8iBBiFpB6po280q0Ky+8XjOXXBo3bDkcUhkPa3SZdcIZj5uVyLqzXt tyzCkv3QxQuWRCNQ7Ou73ybEU3gjQt6chCHeolDdqofFzns4TZmc21zyx Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AUBQDkQlNV/5pdJa1cgw9UXgbGYoYFAoE6TAEBAQEBAYELhCABAQEEOj8MBAIBCBEDAQIfECERHQgCBAENBYgXAxINwnwNhHwBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBIs6gk2BVREBUQIFBoQnBYZii3SEJ4R0gVWBJYNjiniGdiNhgVmBPW8BgQs5gQEBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,420,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="11504854" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 May 2015 12:30:59 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com [173.36.12.87]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4DCUwk9006344 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 May 2015 12:30:58 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.121]) by xhc-aln-x13.cisco.com ([173.36.12.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:30:58 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Stephen Farrell , The IESG Thread-Topic: Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHQjXipxTmPVqyiHEKnvR4bZPePbg== Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 12:30:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [10.65.37.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 12:31:02 -0000 Hi Stephen, See inline -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Farrell Date: Wednesday, 13 May 2015 5:24 am To: The IESG Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "straw@ietf.org" Subject: Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) >Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for >draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: No Objection > >When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >introductory paragraph, however.) > > >Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > >The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >COMMENT: >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >- 4.2, but maybe also elsewhere: should such a b2bua be >REQUIRED to announce itself as a b2bua that forces itself >into the media stream in some manner? Or more broadly, if we >are now (for the 1st time?) standardising b2bua behaviours, >then ought we mandate that such entities make their >prescence or even some flavour of their functionality known >in-band? Even if we do not mandate such behaviour, >shouldn't we at least define how a b2bua that wants to be >visible ought do that? (And if we have done the above >already, or discussed and discarded the above already, then >great, and that shows how much I know:-) RFC 7092 section 3.2.3 already defines media termination B2BUAs. We are just defining how ICE processing is done for such B2BUA. Ram > > From nobody Wed May 13 06:58:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4444C1B2BFA; Wed, 13 May 2015 06:58:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ADPWkIDrPwHu; Wed, 13 May 2015 06:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DDE81B2BF3; Wed, 13 May 2015 06:58:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAD3DBE33; Wed, 13 May 2015 14:58:50 +0100 (IST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DogsjqBKnjs1; Wed, 13 May 2015 14:58:50 +0100 (IST) Received: from [134.226.36.180] (stephen-think.dsg.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.36.180]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 23FA4BE32; Wed, 13 May 2015 14:58:06 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <5553586D.1050309@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 14:58:05 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , The IESG References: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: OpenPGP: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 13:58:53 -0000 On 13/05/15 13:30, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: >> >- 4.2, but maybe also elsewhere: should such a b2bua be >> >REQUIRED to announce itself as a b2bua that forces itself >> >into the media stream in some manner? Or more broadly, if we >> >are now (for the 1st time?) standardising b2bua behaviours, >> >then ought we mandate that such entities make their >> >prescence or even some flavour of their functionality known >> >in-band? Even if we do not mandate such behaviour, >> >shouldn't we at least define how a b2bua that wants to be >> >visible ought do that? (And if we have done the above >> >already, or discussed and discarded the above already, then >> >great, and that shows how much I know:-) > RFC 7092 section 3.2.3 already defines media termination B2BUAs. We are > just defining how ICE > processing is done for such B2BUA. 7092 is an informational taxonomy, which is a fine thing but is not a standard. This draft is aiming to be a PS, so I think my question has yet to be answered. S. From nobody Wed May 13 07:13:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF43C1B2C6F for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:13:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NIfFEY53tWKj for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BDC1E1B2C6D for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.1/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id t4DEDRvg043252 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2015 09:13:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Stephen Farrell" Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 09:13:27 -0500 Message-ID: <934C63CC-811A-4FA1-9A76-BFCF0CD08C5C@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <5553586D.1050309@cs.tcd.ie> References: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5553586D.1050309@cs.tcd.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.1r5084) Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , "Ram Mohan R \(rmohanr\)" , Victor Pascual , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , The IESG Subject: Re: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 14:13:42 -0000 On 13 May 2015, at 8:58, Stephen Farrell wrote: > On 13/05/15 13:30, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: >>>> - 4.2, but maybe also elsewhere: should such a b2bua be >>>> REQUIRED to announce itself as a b2bua that forces itself >>>> into the media stream in some manner? Or more broadly, if we >>>> are now (for the 1st time?) standardising b2bua behaviours, >>>> then ought we mandate that such entities make their >>>> prescence or even some flavour of their functionality known >>>> in-band? Even if we do not mandate such behaviour, >>>> shouldn't we at least define how a b2bua that wants to be >>>> visible ought do that? (And if we have done the above >>>> already, or discussed and discarded the above already, then >>>> great, and that shows how much I know:-) > >> RFC 7092 section 3.2.3 already defines media termination B2BUAs. We >> are >> just defining how ICE >> processing is done for such B2BUA. > > 7092 is an informational taxonomy, which is a fine thing > but is not a standard. This draft is aiming to be a PS, so > I think my question has yet to be answered. > > S. Hi Stephen, You are correct this would be the first PS to specify behavior for media-terminating B2BUAs. But the scope of the draft is strictly about behavior with ICE, not behavior in general. If we required an interception signal here, we would create the odd situation where B2BUAs that handle ICE are required to signal it, but media termination B2BUAs that don't do ICE don't have to. I realize that is not a very satisfying answer. If we could find an author for a draft on privacy considerations for media terminating B2BUAs, I would support it. Ben. From nobody Wed May 13 07:19:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A52401B2CAD; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:19:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YBDoS_jX4Qij; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 281A01B2CB4; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 769EBBDD0; Wed, 13 May 2015 15:19:07 +0100 (IST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ks8rQOsWLrhs; Wed, 13 May 2015 15:19:07 +0100 (IST) Received: from [134.226.36.180] (stephen-think.dsg.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.36.180]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 787D3BE33; Wed, 13 May 2015 15:18:59 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <55535D53.3080708@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 15:18:59 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ben Campbell References: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5553586D.1050309@cs.tcd.ie> <934C63CC-811A-4FA1-9A76-BFCF0CD08C5C@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <934C63CC-811A-4FA1-9A76-BFCF0CD08C5C@nostrum.com> OpenPGP: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , "Ram Mohan R \(rmohanr\)" , Victor Pascual , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , The IESG Subject: Re: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 14:19:14 -0000 Hiya, On 13/05/15 15:13, Ben Campbell wrote: >> > > Hi Stephen, > > You are correct this would be the first PS to specify behavior for > media-terminating B2BUAs. Ok, thanks. > But the scope of the draft is strictly about > behavior with ICE, not behavior in general. That's totally fair. > If we required an > interception signal here, we would create the odd situation where B2BUAs > that handle ICE are required to signal it, but media termination B2BUAs > that don't do ICE don't have to. > > I realize that is not a very satisfying answer. If we could find an > author for a draft on privacy considerations for media terminating > B2BUAs, I would support it. Well, my question isn't (only) about privacy but more about us defining a way for a b2bua that wants to be standards compliant to show the rest of the universe that it's there. I accept that some vendors and some deployments might not do that but isn't there an onus on us to say how one might do that, now that we're "blessing" b2bua's as being a thing worth standardising? If it were done, I agree it probably ought be a standalone document just saying "here's how I, a b2bua, say I'm here" probably with some discussion (if that discussion isn't already all in 7092). Cheers, S. > > Ben. From nobody Wed May 13 07:21:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F9771B2CC6; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:21:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R6im5nwoQ0j4; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E055F1B2CC3; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:20:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2644; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1431526859; x=1432736459; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=eJYOWpGjEzHm6HKjVVlUTcLtDubqKHpd555/Eq0qk+s=; b=VYAcrrtJ2aq/0qEB5QSLZIlykiGPAOC8E9L27di5G813VZmgA//oBmSB EtmTbNBOOoW7/ovewMdHmJuD6tqRQb3V4MtIIq89kiW8VaEGqdu/RrGKl pxxiwNnyn+RLv/cdUyWWIzT8eFlJlQhGP6PeWMup9e9vUQo8lCq7hQ/8k Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0BWBAA2XVNV/4cNJK1cgw9UXgbFAQmBWoYDAoE2OBQBAQEBAQEBgQqEIAEBAQQ6PwwEAgEIEQMBAgEeECERHQgCBAENBYgXAxINwyUNhHwBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBIs6gk2COAcGhCcFklaEJ4R0gVWQAIZ2I2GBWYE9bwGBRIEBAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,421,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="149770279" Received: from alln-core-2.cisco.com ([173.36.13.135]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 May 2015 14:20:58 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com [173.36.12.77]) by alln-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4DEKwsF001068 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 13 May 2015 14:20:58 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.121]) by xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com ([173.36.12.77]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 13 May 2015 09:20:58 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Ben Campbell , Stephen Farrell Thread-Topic: Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHQjYgH1iVQUnBRp06+WnKzDPrwlQ== Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 14:20:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5553586D.1050309@cs.tcd.ie> <934C63CC-811A-4FA1-9A76-BFCF0CD08C5C@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <934C63CC-811A-4FA1-9A76-BFCF0CD08C5C@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [10.65.58.178] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <360EA16E93F3AB468F6870373E79749A@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , The IESG Subject: Re: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 14:21:01 -0000 Hi Ben, Stephen, -----Original Message----- From: Ben Campbell Date: Wednesday, 13 May 2015 7:43 pm To: Stephen Farrell Cc: Cisco Employee , The IESG , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "straw@ietf.org" Subject: Re: Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) >On 13 May 2015, at 8:58, Stephen Farrell wrote: > >> On 13/05/15 13:30, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: >>>>> - 4.2, but maybe also elsewhere: should such a b2bua be >>>>> REQUIRED to announce itself as a b2bua that forces itself >>>>> into the media stream in some manner? Or more broadly, if we >>>>> are now (for the 1st time?) standardising b2bua behaviours, >>>>> then ought we mandate that such entities make their >>>>> prescence or even some flavour of their functionality known >>>>> in-band? Even if we do not mandate such behaviour, >>>>> shouldn't we at least define how a b2bua that wants to be >>>>> visible ought do that? (And if we have done the above >>>>> already, or discussed and discarded the above already, then >>>>> great, and that shows how much I know:-) >> >>> RFC 7092 section 3.2.3 already defines media termination B2BUAs. We >>> are >>> just defining how ICE >>> processing is done for such B2BUA. >> >> 7092 is an informational taxonomy, which is a fine thing >> but is not a standard. This draft is aiming to be a PS, so >> I think my question has yet to be answered. >> >> S. > >Hi Stephen, > >You are correct this would be the first PS to specify behavior for >media-terminating B2BUAs. But the scope of the draft is strictly about >behavior with ICE, not behavior in general. If we required an >interception signal here, we would create the odd situation where B2BUAs >that handle ICE are required to signal it, but media termination B2BUAs >that don't do ICE don't have to. > >I realize that is not a very satisfying answer. If we could find an >author for a draft on privacy considerations for media terminating >B2BUAs, I would support it. The privacy considerations with B2BUAs when handling media are discussed in=20 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-00#section-4 Regards, Ram >Ben. From nobody Wed May 13 07:36:37 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 065BA1A6F03; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:36:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PtO7duVK0a-8; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8B871A6F17; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.1/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id t4DEaBhh045536 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2015 09:36:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 09:36:11 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5553586D.1050309@cs.tcd.ie> <934C63CC-811A-4FA1-9A76-BFCF0CD08C5C@nostrum.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.1r5084) Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , The IESG , Stephen Farrell Subject: Re: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 14:36:30 -0000 On 13 May 2015, at 9:20, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: > Hi Ben, Stephen, > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Campbell > Date: Wednesday, 13 May 2015 7:43 pm > To: Stephen Farrell > Cc: Cisco Employee , The IESG , > "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" > , > "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" > , > "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" > , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" > , Victor Pascual > , > "straw@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: Stephen Farrell's No Objection on > draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) > >> On 13 May 2015, at 8:58, Stephen Farrell wrote: >> >>> On 13/05/15 13:30, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: >>>>>> - 4.2, but maybe also elsewhere: should such a b2bua be >>>>>> REQUIRED to announce itself as a b2bua that forces itself >>>>>> into the media stream in some manner? Or more broadly, if we >>>>>> are now (for the 1st time?) standardising b2bua behaviours, >>>>>> then ought we mandate that such entities make their >>>>>> prescence or even some flavour of their functionality known >>>>>> in-band? Even if we do not mandate such behaviour, >>>>>> shouldn't we at least define how a b2bua that wants to be >>>>>> visible ought do that? (And if we have done the above >>>>>> already, or discussed and discarded the above already, then >>>>>> great, and that shows how much I know:-) >>> >>>> RFC 7092 section 3.2.3 already defines media termination B2BUAs. >>>> We >>>> are >>>> just defining how ICE >>>> processing is done for such B2BUA. >>> >>> 7092 is an informational taxonomy, which is a fine thing >>> but is not a standard. This draft is aiming to be a PS, so >>> I think my question has yet to be answered. >>> >>> S. >> >> Hi Stephen, >> >> You are correct this would be the first PS to specify behavior for >> media-terminating B2BUAs. But the scope of the draft is strictly >> about >> behavior with ICE, not behavior in general. If we required an >> interception signal here, we would create the odd situation where >> B2BUAs >> that handle ICE are required to signal it, but media termination >> B2BUAs >> that don't do ICE don't have to. >> >> I realize that is not a very satisfying answer. If we could find an >> author for a draft on privacy considerations for media terminating >> B2BUAs, I would support it. > > The privacy considerations with B2BUAs when handling media are > discussed > in > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-00#section-4 > Hey, look, another B2BUA PS :-) From Stephen's response to my email, I think "privacy considerations" may not have been the correct term. Nevertheless, this draft might be a better target for Stephen's original comment. (Assuming the value of such an "I'm in your media path" signal for cleartext media is marginal at best.) Ben. From nobody Wed May 13 07:38:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3608C1A87AD; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:38:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vEmRoLSt9Kc5; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4D621A8784; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.23] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.1/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id t4DEcEFU045718 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 13 May 2015 09:38:25 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.23] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Stephen Farrell" Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 09:38:14 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <934C63CC-811A-4FA1-9A76-BFCF0CD08C5C@nostrum.com> References: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5553586D.1050309@cs.tcd.ie> <934C63CC-811A-4FA1-9A76-BFCF0CD08C5C@nostrum.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.1r5084) Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , "Ram Mohan R \(rmohanr\)" , Victor Pascual , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , The IESG Subject: Re: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 14:38:31 -0000 On 13 May 2015, at 9:13, Ben Campbell wrote: > You are correct this would be the first PS to specify behavior for > media-terminating B2BUAs. Oops, I spoke too soon--there is RFC 7332. But that one is way more specialized than this one :-) From nobody Wed May 13 07:39:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AA6F1A86DF; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:39:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RFMDyFJicIjk; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC4D71A86EA; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:39:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4BBFBE3F; Wed, 13 May 2015 15:39:11 +0100 (IST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RC1WkeDz56co; Wed, 13 May 2015 15:39:11 +0100 (IST) Received: from [134.226.36.180] (stephen-think.dsg.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.36.180]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6D2C0BE3E; Wed, 13 May 2015 15:39:11 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <5553620F.4020601@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 15:39:11 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ben Campbell , "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" References: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5553586D.1050309@cs.tcd.ie> <934C63CC-811A-4FA1-9A76-BFCF0CD08C5C@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: OpenPGP: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , Victor Pascual , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , The IESG Subject: Re: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 14:39:17 -0000 Hiya, On 13/05/15 15:36, Ben Campbell wrote: > > From Stephen's response to my email, I think "privacy considerations" > may not have been the correct term. Nevertheless, this draft might be a > better target for Stephen's original comment. (Assuming the value of > such an "I'm in your media path" signal for cleartext media is marginal > at best.) The security and privacy properties of such a signal will be interesting and subtle all right, esp. if it's not universally turned on as we might prefer. But: all's I was asking about now is if we're gonna define the basic signal. (Really, I don't think so far ahead mostly:-) I'm totally happy if you put that definition wherever you think best. S. From nobody Wed May 13 08:23:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AF9F1B2E1E for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 08:23:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.235 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.235 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TTO8NKocESKh for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 08:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 284321B2DF0 for ; Wed, 13 May 2015 08:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-18v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.114]) by resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id TTNp1q0062Udklx01TPmdE; Wed, 13 May 2015 15:23:46 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([50.138.229.151]) by resomta-ch2-18v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id TTPl1q00c3Ge9ey01TPmF8; Wed, 13 May 2015 15:23:46 +0000 Message-ID: <55536C80.5060801@alum.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 11:23:44 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: straw@ietf.org References: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5553586D.1050309@cs.tcd.ie> <934C63CC-811A-4FA1-9A76-BFCF0CD08C5C@nostrum.com> <5553620F.4020601@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: <5553620F.4020601@cs.tcd.ie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1431530626; bh=FESQ9b8BTLVAPe3m2VAHkOk4ssyYaFn/lKsFmJrE6Ss=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=pbrgbJF7ZMwPh6WGWSt7Oal+MAEIVGL7YEHn8mibgkCNk9We+3UtfKnhTpwqeLMAr spE2OmHj4J8F3kd3GjEOlf0+IjpoC5gK5SE/wEGBIJmqyifHwqpu0J4QR8qqE6Nwud PVguYCfLhmqBYnAMUm5siPiBrZAsoJzML0rnyCX19cal0efb2sr4Hdnv8p4pjjrnOv gVcNe06SuPdtVWr8xsXxbJ/E0v8uETFNVx6SdsJzgQ6VJnA2/Rk+evS0mLXW8+ChIS E5DDCfR1x57HIzm6iP404O97IJTtedecu1d/4wxEilwd6a50E+EHFgj2prnxNQAyEd +k7XQvC0SDNOw== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 15:23:48 -0000 On 5/13/15 10:39 AM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > > Hiya, > > On 13/05/15 15:36, Ben Campbell wrote: >> >> From Stephen's response to my email, I think "privacy considerations" >> may not have been the correct term. Nevertheless, this draft might be a >> better target for Stephen's original comment. (Assuming the value of >> such an "I'm in your media path" signal for cleartext media is marginal >> at best.) > > The security and privacy properties of such a signal will be > interesting and subtle all right, esp. if it's not universally > turned on as we might prefer. But: all's I was asking about > now is if we're gonna define the basic signal. (Really, I don't > think so far ahead mostly:-) > > I'm totally happy if you put that definition wherever you think > best. Note that we also have the siprec work, where we *do* have a signal to indicate that there is something in the path messing with media. But that is also specialized. We also have the isFocus indicator that is used in SIP signaling for conference servers - another special case of B2BUA. And note that *some* B2BUAs (SBCs) are in some ways analogous to NATs. Is there any precedent about NATs signaling (or not) their presence that might be applicable to analogous B2BUAs? Thanks, Paul From nobody Wed May 13 14:36:49 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FBFA1B2C70; Wed, 13 May 2015 14:36:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eTAPWomA0NdP; Wed, 13 May 2015 14:36:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA4DE1AD0C7; 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Wed, 13 May 2015 21:36:36 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([169.254.8.220]) by xhc-rcd-x15.cisco.com ([173.37.183.89]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 13 May 2015 16:36:36 -0500 From: "Gonzalo Salgueiro (gsalguei)" To: Stephen Farrell Thread-Topic: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHQjQ8HZzpN+cjX7EOKeaOlhb/P7A== Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 21:36:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <55536C80.5060801@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.150.178.210] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.ad@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun.shepherd@ietf.org" , The IESG Subject: [straw] Fwd: Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 21:36:46 -0000 SGkgU3RlcGhlbiAtIA0KDQpJ4oCZbSBmb3J3YXJkaW5nIHRoaXMgcmVzcG9uc2UgZnJvbSBQYXVs IEt5eml2YXQgdGhhdCBJIGRvbuKAmXQgdGhpbmsgeW91IHdlcmVuJ3QgY29waWVkIG9uLCBidXQg SSBkbyB0aGluayBpcyBwZXJ0aW5lbnQgaW5mbyB0byBjb25zaWRlciBpbiB0aGUgY29udGV4dCBv ZiB0aGUgcmVzcG9uc2UgSSBhbSBhYm91dCB0byBzZW5kIHlvdSBpbiBhbm90aGVyIGVtYWlsLg0K DQpDaGVlcnMsDQoNCkdvbnphbG8NCg0KPiBCZWdpbiBmb3J3YXJkZWQgbWVzc2FnZToNCj4gDQo+ IEZyb206IFBhdWwgS3l6aXZhdCA8cGt5eml2YXRAYWx1bS5taXQuZWR1Pg0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBS ZTogW3N0cmF3XSBTdGVwaGVuIEZhcnJlbGwncyBObyBPYmplY3Rpb24gb24gZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1z dHJhdy1iMmJ1YS1zdHVuLTA1OiAod2l0aCBDT01NRU5UKQ0KPiBEYXRlOiBNYXkgMTMsIDIwMTUg YXQgMTE6MjM6NDQgQU0gRURUDQo+IFRvOiA8c3RyYXdAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+IA0KPiBPbiA1LzEz LzE1IDEwOjM5IEFNLCBTdGVwaGVuIEZhcnJlbGwgd3JvdGU6DQo+PiANCj4+IEhpeWEsDQo+PiAN Cj4+IE9uIDEzLzA1LzE1IDE1OjM2LCBCZW4gQ2FtcGJlbGwgd3JvdGU6DQo+Pj4gDQo+Pj4gRnJv bSBTdGVwaGVuJ3MgcmVzcG9uc2UgdG8gbXkgZW1haWwsIEkgdGhpbmsgInByaXZhY3kgY29uc2lk ZXJhdGlvbnMiDQo+Pj4gbWF5IG5vdCBoYXZlIGJlZW4gdGhlIGNvcnJlY3QgdGVybS4gTmV2ZXJ0 aGVsZXNzLCB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0IG1pZ2h0IGJlIGENCj4+PiBiZXR0ZXIgdGFyZ2V0IGZvciBTdGVw aGVuJ3Mgb3JpZ2luYWwgY29tbWVudC4gKEFzc3VtaW5nIHRoZSB2YWx1ZSBvZg0KPj4+IHN1Y2gg YW4gIkknbSBpbiB5b3VyIG1lZGlhIHBhdGgiIHNpZ25hbCBmb3IgY2xlYXJ0ZXh0IG1lZGlhIGlz IG1hcmdpbmFsDQo+Pj4gYXQgYmVzdC4pDQo+PiANCj4+IFRoZSBzZWN1cml0eSBhbmQgcHJpdmFj eSBwcm9wZXJ0aWVzIG9mIHN1Y2ggYSBzaWduYWwgd2lsbCBiZQ0KPj4gaW50ZXJlc3RpbmcgYW5k IHN1YnRsZSBhbGwgcmlnaHQsIGVzcC4gaWYgaXQncyBub3QgdW5pdmVyc2FsbHkNCj4+IHR1cm5l ZCBvbiBhcyB3ZSBtaWdodCBwcmVmZXIuIEJ1dDogYWxsJ3MgSSB3YXMgYXNraW5nIGFib3V0DQo+ PiBub3cgaXMgaWYgd2UncmUgZ29ubmEgZGVmaW5lIHRoZSBiYXNpYyBzaWduYWwuIChSZWFsbHks IEkgZG9uJ3QNCj4+IHRoaW5rIHNvIGZhciBhaGVhZCBtb3N0bHk6LSkNCj4+IA0KPj4gSSdtIHRv dGFsbHkgaGFwcHkgaWYgeW91IHB1dCB0aGF0IGRlZmluaXRpb24gd2hlcmV2ZXIgeW91IHRoaW5r DQo+PiBiZXN0Lg0KPiANCj4gTm90ZSB0aGF0IHdlIGFsc28gaGF2ZSB0aGUgc2lwcmVjIHdvcmss IHdoZXJlIHdlICpkbyogaGF2ZSBhIHNpZ25hbCB0byBpbmRpY2F0ZSB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIGlzIHNv bWV0aGluZyBpbiB0aGUgcGF0aCBtZXNzaW5nIHdpdGggbWVkaWEuIEJ1dCB0aGF0IGlzIGFsc28g c3BlY2lhbGl6ZWQuDQo+IA0KPiBXZSBhbHNvIGhhdmUgdGhlIGlzRm9jdXMgaW5kaWNhdG9yIHRo YXQgaXMgdXNlZCBpbiBTSVAgc2lnbmFsaW5nIGZvciBjb25mZXJlbmNlIHNlcnZlcnMgLSBhbm90 aGVyIHNwZWNpYWwgY2FzZSBvZiBCMkJVQS4NCj4gDQo+IEFuZCBub3RlIHRoYXQgKnNvbWUqIEIy QlVBcyAoU0JDcykgYXJlIGluIHNvbWUgd2F5cyBhbmFsb2dvdXMgdG8gTkFUcy4gSXMgdGhlcmUg YW55IHByZWNlZGVudCBhYm91dCBOQVRzIHNpZ25hbGluZyAob3Igbm90KSB0aGVpciBwcmVzZW5j ZSB0aGF0IG1pZ2h0IGJlIGFwcGxpY2FibGUgdG8gYW5hbG9nb3VzIEIyQlVBcz8NCj4gDQo+IAlU aGFua3MsDQo+IAlQYXVsDQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBzdHJhdyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gc3RyYXdAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4g aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zdHJhdw0KDQo= From nobody Wed May 13 15:29:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26ED61AD210; 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Wed, 13 May 2015 17:29:14 -0500 From: "Gonzalo Salgueiro (gsalguei)" To: Stephen Farrell Thread-Topic: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHQjQ8HZzpN+cjX7EOKeaOlhb/P7J16KwaAgAAYWICAAARLgIAAAhmAgAAEQYCAAADXgIAAg1iA Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 22:29:13 +0000 Message-ID: <6A76888A-73CF-4C1F-A167-969E95C42B89@cisco.com> References: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5553586D.1050309@cs.tcd.ie> <934C63CC-811A-4FA1-9A76-BFCF0CD08C5C@nostrum.com> <5553620F.4020601@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: <5553620F.4020601@cs.tcd.ie> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.150.178.210] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <45393F8AE90BF844AAD804DA043F44A7@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: The IESG , Ben Campbell , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-05: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 22:29:17 -0000 DQo+IE9uIE1heSAxMywgMjAxNSwgYXQgMTA6MzkgQU0sIFN0ZXBoZW4gRmFycmVsbCA8c3RlcGhl bi5mYXJyZWxsQGNzLnRjZC5pZT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gSGl5YSwNCj4gDQo+IE9uIDEz LzA1LzE1IDE1OjM2LCBCZW4gQ2FtcGJlbGwgd3JvdGU6DQo+PiANCj4+IEZyb20gU3RlcGhlbidz IHJlc3BvbnNlIHRvIG15IGVtYWlsLCBJIHRoaW5rICJwcml2YWN5IGNvbnNpZGVyYXRpb25zIg0K Pj4gbWF5IG5vdCBoYXZlIGJlZW4gdGhlIGNvcnJlY3QgdGVybS4gTmV2ZXJ0aGVsZXNzLCB0aGlz IGRyYWZ0IG1pZ2h0IGJlIGENCj4+IGJldHRlciB0YXJnZXQgZm9yIFN0ZXBoZW4ncyBvcmlnaW5h bCBjb21tZW50LiAoQXNzdW1pbmcgdGhlIHZhbHVlIG9mDQo+PiBzdWNoIGFuICJJJ20gaW4geW91 ciBtZWRpYSBwYXRoIiBzaWduYWwgZm9yIGNsZWFydGV4dCBtZWRpYSBpcyBtYXJnaW5hbA0KPj4g YXQgYmVzdC4pDQo+IA0KPiBUaGUgc2VjdXJpdHkgYW5kIHByaXZhY3kgcHJvcGVydGllcyBvZiBz dWNoIGEgc2lnbmFsIHdpbGwgYmUNCj4gaW50ZXJlc3RpbmcgYW5kIHN1YnRsZSBhbGwgcmlnaHQs IGVzcC4gaWYgaXQncyBub3QgdW5pdmVyc2FsbHkNCj4gdHVybmVkIG9uIGFzIHdlIG1pZ2h0IHBy ZWZlci4gQnV0OiBhbGwncyBJIHdhcyBhc2tpbmcgYWJvdXQNCj4gbm93IGlzIGlmIHdlJ3JlIGdv bm5hIGRlZmluZSB0aGUgYmFzaWMgc2lnbmFsLiAoUmVhbGx5LCBJIGRvbid0DQo+IHRoaW5rIHNv IGZhciBhaGVhZCBtb3N0bHk6LSkNCg0KSeKAmW0gZ2xhZCB5b3UgcmFpc2VkIHRoaXMgcG9pbnQg YXMgSSB0aGluayBpdCBpcyB1c2VmdWwgdG8gY29uc2lkZXIgbW9yZSBicm9hZGx5IGFuIGV4cGxp Y2l0IHNpZ25hbGluZyBtZWNoYW5pc20gZm9yIG9uLXBhdGggQjJCVUEgaW52b2x2ZW1lbnQvaW50 ZXJmZXJlbmNlLiBBcyB5b3UgaGF2ZSBzZWVuIGZyb20gdmFyaW91cyByZXNwb25zZXMgdGhhdCB3 aGF0IGV4aXN0cyB0b2RheSBhcmUgYSB2YXJpZXR5IG9mIHBvaW50IHNvbHV0aW9ucyBmb3IgdmVy eSBzcGVjaWFsaXplZCBCMkJVQSB1c2UtY2FzZXMuIFRodXMsIEkgc3Ryb25nbHkgZmVlbCB0cnlp bmcgdGhhdCBpbnNlcnRpbmcgaXQgaW4gdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBpcyBub3QgYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUg YXMgdGhpcyBoYXBwZW5zIHRvIGJlIHlldCBhbm90aGVyIHZlcnkgc3BlY2lmaWMgY2FzZSAodGhh dCBvZiBCMkJVQSBwZXJmb3JtaW5nIElDRSBwcm9jZXNzaW5nKS4gIA0KDQpUaGF0IHNhaWQsIHdl IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBraWNraW5nIGFyb3VuZCBzb21lIGlkZWFzIG92ZXIgdGhlIHBhc3QgZmV3IG1v bnRocyBhYm91dCBhIG1vcmUgZ2VuZXJpYyBtZWNoYW5pc20gYWtpbiB0byB3aGF0IHlvdSBhcmUg cmVxdWVzdGluZy4gIEF0IGEgaGlnaCBsZXZlbCBpdCBwcm9wb3NlcyB0aGUgQjJCVUEgZXhwbGlj aXRseSByZWdpc3RlciB3aXRoIGEgdGFnIGluZGljYXRpbmcvYWR2ZXJ0aXNpbmcgaXQgaXMgYSBC MkJVQS4gVGhlIGlkZWEgYmVpbmcgdGhhdCBvbmNlIHRoZSBlbmRwb2ludCBrbm93cyBpdCBpcyBr bm93IHRoYXQgaXTigJlzIGEgQjJCVUEgKGFuZCBub3QgdGhlIHRlcm1pbmF0aW5nIGVuZHBvaW50 KSBhIGRlY2lzaW9uIGNhbiBiZSBtYWRlIG9yIHBvbGljeSBhcHBsaWVkLiBUaGUgc3BlY2lmaWNp dHkgb2YgdGhlIHRhZyB3b3VsZCBuZWVkIHRvIGJlIGRlY2lkZWQgYnkgdGhlIFdHIGFzIHRvIHdo ZXRoZXIgaXQgaXMgYSBnZW5lcmljIEIyQlVBIHRhZyBvciBhIG1vcmUgZ3JhbnVsYXIgdGFnIGlu ZGljYXRpbmcgdGhlIHR5cGUgb2YgQjJCVUEgYW5kIGl0cyBsZXZlbCBvZiBvZiBpbnZvbHZlbWVu dCBpbiB0aGUgbWVkaWEgcGF0aCAoaW4gdGhlIGNvbnRleHQgb2YgUkZDIDcwOTIpLiBUaGlzIGlz IGN1cnJlbnRseSBub3QgaW4gc2NvcGUgZm9yIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IG1pbGVzdG9uZXMgaW4gU1RS QVcuIFdlIHdlcmUgcGxhbm5pbmcgdG8gcmFpc2UgdGhpcyB3aXRoIHRoZSBjaGFpcnMgdG8gZ2F1 Z2UgaW50ZXJlc3QgaW4gZ2V0dGluZyB0aGlzIHdvcmsgYWRkZWQuIFRoaXMgd291bGQgYmUgdGhl IG9wdGltYWwgY291cnNlIG9mIGFjdGlvbiBJTU8uDQoNCj4gSSdtIHRvdGFsbHkgaGFwcHkgaWYg eW91IHB1dCB0aGF0IGRlZmluaXRpb24gd2hlcmV2ZXIgeW91IHRoaW5rDQo+IGJlc3QuDQoNCg0K T29vcHMuLi5TZWUgYWJvdmUuDQoNCkNoZWVycywNCg0KR29uemFsbw0KDQo+IFMuDQo+IA0KPiBf X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBzdHJhdyBt YWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gc3RyYXdAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFp bG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zdHJhdw0KDQo= From nobody Thu May 14 09:13:07 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A2021A8831 for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 09:13:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.664 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.664 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ywrHKK0PmO_w for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 09:13:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE0081A8826 for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 09:13:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.106]) by resqmta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id TsCt1q0092JGN3p01sD2bM; Thu, 14 May 2015 16:13:02 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([50.138.229.151]) by resomta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id TsD01q00A3Ge9ey01sD0P6; Thu, 14 May 2015 16:13:02 +0000 Message-ID: <5554C98B.30203@alum.mit.edu> Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 12:12:59 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Gonzalo Salgueiro (gsalguei)" , Stephen Farrell References: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5553586D.1050309@cs.tcd.ie> <934C63CC-811A-4FA1-9A76-BFCF0CD08C5C@nostrum.com> <5553620F.4020601@cs.tcd.ie> <6A76888A-73CF-4C1F-A167-969E95C42B89@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <6A76888A-73CF-4C1F-A167-969E95C42B89@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1431619982; bh=IzWmI41paRumPh07/2bQWRyMb/ovhh0234u9grsvO30=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=d8NgDSEa3eKdXdEO9j9SHcxbuD95IEt237NLR5frkDCopoEGQVEJ90zmfma+IxgD9 uSWdN/azENfA1C8GkcnfwVIPNXoCaWOnqqIfH6LwFGxkHVQK9IMJZCInXNTszrkyUU EBCkT/gakvjjNZkvNu8IVFb1eZ+vhmHw0aAqUy7JJEpqwsY42HdAzm8J1+QKPl4Z0c T1PyTGIgPEymZqxbCNmsLow0tLvxBd3M3y+QhlK1q/1DUKSKTs8xSEJ09xKCByOxUm jeoTzlZ/3W3BJgppEqjZrxII8WLM1zmrC0eZpvjoADbJQG9eYDvjQrGlsEPbzv6YC7 QMfEBxJeeGTpw== Archived-At: Cc: Ben Campbell , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , straw@ietf.org, The IESG Subject: [straw] Signaling the presence of B2BUAs X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 16:13:05 -0000 On 5/13/15 6:29 PM, Gonzalo Salgueiro (gsalguei) wrote: > I’m glad you raised this point as I think it is useful to consider more broadly an explicit signaling mechanism for on-path B2BUA involvement/interference. As you have seen from various responses that what exists today are a variety of point solutions for very specialized B2BUA use-cases. Thus, I strongly feel trying that inserting it in this document is not appropriate as this happens to be yet another very specific case (that of B2BUA performing ICE processing). > > That said, we have been kicking around some ideas over the past few months about a more generic mechanism akin to what you are requesting. At a high level it proposes the B2BUA explicitly register with a tag indicating/advertising it is a B2BUA. The idea being that once the endpoint knows it is know that it’s a B2BUA (and not the terminating endpoint) a decision can be made or policy applied. The specificity of the tag would need to be decided by the WG as to whether it is a generic B2BUA tag or a more granular tag indicating the type of B2BUA and its level of of involvement in the media path (in the context of RFC 7092). This is currently not in scope for the current milestones in STRAW. We were planning to raise this with the chairs to gauge interest in getting this work added. This would be the optimal course of action IMO. ISTM that this is closely related to e2e security. A fundamental fact of life with SIP is that the call establishment mechanism is built to support ambiguity about who the callee will be. Midpoint elements are given discretion about where the call is routed. And identification of who is on the other end isn't provided by default. B2BUAs often capitalize on this. From a signaling perspective, the caller thinks the call is terminated by the first B2BUA in the call path. What happens beyond that point can be totally hidden from the caller. *If* there was mutual authentication between the caller and the callee, and the caller was satisfied that the identified callee was who he wanted to be connected to, then there would be less need for identification of the identity and/or properties of intermediaries involved in setting up the signaling. Even then, there would be no assurance that the call was not being relayed to others by the known callee, but that is unavoidable and there is somebody to blame. Absent that, it isn't evident to me that simply announcing the presence of B2BUAs would add much value. Thanks, Paul From nobody Thu May 14 10:14:09 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C6BB1A8AA9; Thu, 14 May 2015 10:14:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WL4G48DXwKf0; Thu, 14 May 2015 10:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75F961AC3BB; Thu, 14 May 2015 10:14:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 095CBBEAA; Thu, 14 May 2015 18:14:00 +0100 (IST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B-3mAO5Zcp2V; Thu, 14 May 2015 18:13:59 +0100 (IST) Received: from [10.87.48.73] (unknown [86.46.19.109]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BFA06BE9F; Thu, 14 May 2015 18:13:58 +0100 (IST) Message-ID: <5554D7D6.1080408@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 18:13:58 +0100 From: Stephen Farrell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Kyzivat , "Gonzalo Salgueiro (gsalguei)" References: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5553586D.1050309@cs.tcd.ie> <934C63CC-811A-4FA1-9A76-BFCF0CD08C5C@nostrum.com> <5553620F.4020601@cs.tcd.ie> <6A76888A-73CF-4C1F-A167-969E95C42B89@cisco.com> <5554C98B.30203@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <5554C98B.30203@alum.mit.edu> OpenPGP: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Cc: Ben Campbell , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , straw@ietf.org, The IESG Subject: Re: [straw] Signaling the presence of B2BUAs X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 17:14:04 -0000 On 14/05/15 17:12, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >> > > ISTM that this is closely related to e2e security. I've got to say I don't see that myself, if what you meant was that signalling middlebox presence is only worthwhile if one has a working e2e security scheme. (Basing anything related to SIP on a presumption of e2e security seems fairly fraught;-) IIRC, one of the things from RFC3424 that I thought was spot-on was the idea that if midleboxen declare their existence then things are likely to work out better overall. So, I'd argue that defining some way for b2buas to declare themselves would be useful and could find uses. Whether implementers and deployments would bother to support that and turn it on is a separate question, but if they did, then I reckon it'd help in various ways, not all of which we might be able to see today. And it'd at least create the potential to authenticate those middleboxes to user agents and to one another without them having to impersonate anyone. S. From nobody Thu May 14 10:45:15 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 500AE1B2C26 for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 10:45:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.235 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.235 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ghDajsdH7s4q for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 10:45:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0986D1B2BF8 for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 10:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-16v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.112]) by resqmta-ch2-05v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id Ttl81q0022S2Q5R01tl8SE; Thu, 14 May 2015 17:45:08 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([50.138.229.151]) by resomta-ch2-16v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id Ttl61q00D3Ge9ey01tl6JQ; Thu, 14 May 2015 17:45:08 +0000 Message-ID: <5554DF21.4090608@alum.mit.edu> Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 13:45:05 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephen Farrell , "Gonzalo Salgueiro (gsalguei)" References: <20150512235438.30250.37175.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5553586D.1050309@cs.tcd.ie> <934C63CC-811A-4FA1-9A76-BFCF0CD08C5C@nostrum.com> <5553620F.4020601@cs.tcd.ie> <6A76888A-73CF-4C1F-A167-969E95C42B89@cisco.com> <5554C98B.30203@alum.mit.edu> <5554D7D6.1080408@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: <5554D7D6.1080408@cs.tcd.ie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1431625508; bh=hP68ajgBwNSNWbQNkg0XqRclpXah/gKhPSNEPJI+MZw=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=pJUBjgIwEIuggtm7pEVGGPV/AZlziFfziho93tD1JxEgoB68adXfmd8ErYZJG7VTe bmNIv7bAz/WqPJ0rpSVZXddAIAPBiIQ3rQ7Ym/qcntNsVRwugzcN9boyhefd4XlhHB vYDM4uLBG4E6BCTClR4G1PMKQZhTLdSJ9w15c7ysiO1sOCQV4by/pRneZ4MqW1dR6O 6c87xR/MbjHcJm9tVlel+6xNK4JoVJxcD41a66kDkJoLL9XsODly58ID6ZRLwftJiD wMefl7oRqeXNlAQUv9GI3n/A7YMCfjRWIpzS7KHTaTi1cS3N7xVtbvCkzpE2GeQxTW 1OGrE8SaZKplA== Archived-At: Cc: Ben Campbell , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun@ietf.org" , straw@ietf.org, The IESG Subject: Re: [straw] Signaling the presence of B2BUAs X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 17:45:11 -0000 On 5/14/15 1:13 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > > > On 14/05/15 17:12, Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>> >> >> ISTM that this is closely related to e2e security. > > I've got to say I don't see that myself, if what you meant was that > signalling middlebox presence is only worthwhile if one has a working > e2e security scheme. (Basing anything related to SIP on a presumption > of e2e security seems fairly fraught;-) The rest of the message, after that first statement, elaborated on what I meant by that. > IIRC, one of the things from RFC3424 that I thought was spot-on was > the idea that if midleboxen declare their existence then things are > likely to work out better overall. So, I'd argue that defining some > way for b2buas to declare themselves would be useful and could find > uses. Whether implementers and deployments would bother to support > that and turn it on is a separate question, but if they did, then I > reckon it'd help in various ways, not all of which we might be able > to see today. And it'd at least create the potential to authenticate > those middleboxes to user agents and to one another without them > having to impersonate anyone. It is possible that having the indication would be helpful in some way. But other than using it to debug problems I can't imagine what that would be. Note that there would be challenges to announcing it. For one thing, it would probably be necessary to signal the sorts of nuances in B2BUA features described in RFC7092. But beyond that would be getting the description to the interested parties. One of the primary uses of B2BUAs (SBCs) is to hide topology, names, and addresses of intermediaries. So it is likely that any information provided would be stripped out. My main point is that if I knew who I thought I was talking to, and had the path secured to that entity, then it wouldn't matter so much what else is along the path. Right now the caller in some sense "thinks" it is talking to the first B2BUA on the path. But he doesn't know much about who that is, so he doesn't object. Thanks, Paul From nobody Thu May 14 10:57:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F90D1B2CDC; Thu, 14 May 2015 10:57:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P9wy63UkjxEK; Thu, 14 May 2015 10:57:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 589B81B2CD1; Thu, 14 May 2015 10:57:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150514175737.27899.70845.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 10:57:37 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: straw@ietf.org Subject: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-06.txt X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 17:57:38 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work Working Group of the IETF. Title : Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) Message Handling for Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) Authors : Ram Mohan Ravindranath Tirumaleswar Reddy Gonzalo Salgueiro Filename : draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-06.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2015-05-14 Abstract: Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) are often designed to be on the media path, rather than just intercepting signaling. This means that B2BUAs often act on the media path leading to separate media legs that the B2BUA correlates and bridges together. When acting on the media path, B2BUAs are likely to receive Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) packets as part of Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) processing. This document defines behavior for a B2BUA performing ICE processing. The goal of this draft is to ensure that B2BUAs properly handles SIP messages that carry ICE semantics in Session Description Protocol(SDP) and STUN messages received as part of the ICE procedures for NAT and Firewall traversal of multimedia sessions. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu May 14 11:00:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB561B2CD1 for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 11:00:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZYMXGZ7LTTWU for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 11:00:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AEDB1B2CDE for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 11:00:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2608; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1431626416; x=1432836016; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=BYeRXlAaaiN37ilh2c16prLzNDGnAh9R9JyYBCCxhLo=; b=k3QVtH6kM/QzKQuyRPlXUAriBccSPnA8HTp5DhIfmyLG2PgMXTY2uPD+ HK93NO/YuO0+TBIsW/7ieiTybQsben8rTOmUklynZAcmVMWycdGMpbYn2 9q1aVAYni+sAWFpsxHZ7e9iiklQt5eYJEkxmVJ4sQFLST9bk3r5mgbuwb Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AOBQAm4lRV/4UNJK1cgw9UXgbGQQqFdgKBQ0wBAQEBAQGBC4QiAQEBBAEBATc0FwQCAQgRAwECHxAnCx0IAgQTiCwN1QQBAQEBAQEBAQIBAQEBAQEBARqLOoUMBoQnBZJghCiGSoEnPoMmkW4jg3dvgUWBAQEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,430,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="11921365" Received: from alln-core-11.cisco.com ([173.36.13.133]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 May 2015 18:00:15 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x15.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x15.cisco.com [173.37.183.89]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4EI0Fq8031573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 18:00:15 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.121]) by xhc-rcd-x15.cisco.com ([173.37.183.89]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 14 May 2015 13:00:15 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: "straw@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-06.txt Thread-Index: AQHQjm/UDYuH8yq+GE29hBBLD/JOLg== Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 18:00:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150514175737.27899.70845.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150514175737.27899.70845.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [10.65.60.253] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6E3BC8BCF38764448B9830123D6FFEB4@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-06.txt X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 18:00:18 -0000 WG, This addresses comments received during IESG reviews. Regards, Ram -----Original Message----- From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" Date: Thursday, 14 May 2015 11:27 pm To: "i-d-announce@ietf.org" Cc: "straw@ietf.org" Subject: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-06.txt > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. > This draft is a work item of the Sip Traversal Required for Applications >to Work Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) >Message Handling for Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User >Agents (B2BUAs) > Authors : Ram Mohan Ravindranath > Tirumaleswar Reddy > Gonzalo Salgueiro > Filename : draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-06.txt > Pages : 14 > Date : 2015-05-14 > >Abstract: > Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) > are often designed to be on the media path, rather than just > intercepting signaling. This means that B2BUAs often act on the > media path leading to separate media legs that the B2BUA correlates > and bridges together. When acting on the media path, B2BUAs are > likely to receive Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) packets > as part of Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) processing. > > This document defines behavior for a B2BUA performing ICE processing. > The goal of this draft is to ensure that B2BUAs properly handles SIP > messages that carry ICE semantics in Session Description > Protocol(SDP) and STUN messages received as part of the ICE > procedures for NAT and Firewall traversal of multimedia sessions. > > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-06 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-06 > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >submission >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > >_______________________________________________ >straw mailing list >straw@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw From nobody Fri May 15 01:20:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 012481B2D31 for ; 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Fri, 15 May 2015 03:19:53 -0500 From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" To: Simon Perreault , "straw@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [straw] Review of draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-00 Thread-Index: AQHQjPSvwXFgmlTZ4kKuKmfztmHtH518s8Aw Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 08:19:53 +0000 Message-ID: <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A4784512E@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> References: <5552668B.1090408@jive.com> In-Reply-To: <5552668B.1090408@jive.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.65.38.226] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [straw] Review of draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-00 X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 08:20:18 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: straw [mailto:straw-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Perreault > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 2:16 AM > To: straw@ietf.org; draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [straw] Review of draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-00 >=20 > Here's my overview of draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-00. This is coming > from the point of view of someone having implementation experience with > both SRTP and DTLS-SRTP. >=20 > Overall, the draft does not offer much practical, usable advice. I don't = really > see what questions this draft is answering. Now, I know the topic pretty = well, > so maybe I'm not in the target audience. But still, does anyone find this= draft > useful? It seems to me there's not much meat on the bone... The draft was previously discussing B2BUA in media-termination which requir= es SRTP and DTLS-SRTP to be discussed in detail, but that mode was removed = from the draft based on the consensus that B2BUA breaks privacy. The draft = now gives guidance for B2BUA to follow so that good B2BUA actors don't mani= pulate certificate fingerprint in the SDP and break the DTLS session; It al= so discusses if there are bad B2BUA actors breaking into the DTLS session t= hen identity validation procedure can be used to detect MIM attacks. =20 >=20 > Section "1.1. Overview" contains: >=20 > > DTLS-SRTP is defined for point-to-point > > media sessions, in which there are exactly two participants. Each > > DTLS-SRTP session contains a single DTLS association, and either two > > SRTP contexts (if media traffic is flowing in both directions on the > > same host/port quartet) or one SRTP context (if media traffic is onl= y > > flowing in one direction). >=20 > - Do you have a reference for the term "DTLS-SRTP session"? Yes, it is mentioned in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5764 >=20 > - "host/port quartet" is more commonly called "5-tuple". Yup, will change in the next revision.=20 >=20 > - This overview seems to disregard the effects of SIP forking. It might b= e > worth pointing out that a single SIP INVITE may generate N DTLS associati= ons > after forking. Yes, will add SIP forking. Cheers, -Tiru >=20 > Simon >=20 > _______________________________________________ > straw mailing list > straw@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw From nobody Sun May 17 20:45:58 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D8D81A046D; Sun, 17 May 2015 20:45:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mWxi-h6AGZhE; Sun, 17 May 2015 20:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C86C1A03AB; Sun, 17 May 2015 20:45:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150518034553.11603.97270.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 20:45:53 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: straw@ietf.org Subject: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-07.txt X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 03:45:54 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work Working Group of the IETF. Title : Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) Message Handling for Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) Authors : Ram Mohan Ravindranath Tirumaleswar Reddy Gonzalo Salgueiro Filename : draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-07.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2015-05-17 Abstract: Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) are often designed to be on the media path, rather than just intercepting signaling. This means that B2BUAs often act on the media path leading to separate media legs that the B2BUA correlates and bridges together. When acting on the media path, B2BUAs are likely to receive Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) packets as part of Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) processing. This document defines behavior for a B2BUA performing ICE processing. The goal of this draft is to ensure that B2BUAs properly handles SIP messages that carry ICE semantics in Session Description Protocol(SDP) and STUN messages received as part of the ICE procedures for NAT and Firewall traversal of multimedia sessions. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun May 17 20:48:13 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE6E11A0470 for ; Sun, 17 May 2015 20:48:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b4YM4Qz5vEym for ; Sun, 17 May 2015 20:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3949D1A03F9 for ; Sun, 17 May 2015 20:48:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2719; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1431920890; x=1433130490; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=ttACZ7tzG5sNE5mUx1yw4FM67i3DwPJ4xunor53wWvQ=; b=G4lJemqzhjj2iipyuqtR8RIWDqNw8CPlxqT+5kGTpwV8Mxk6AP3f/7W2 YKfypA4usFRew5Khew2NQeupeFbmu6w7NaCS6vAP6/BOUofaGECdlqTWw Sa8loD/TesaT9zNgDzsC1HxDx0tX5kqTgsC+GFPxmlehSZQTTRlg7+qn0 o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0BGBQAxYFlV/5tdJa1cgxBUXgbGLQqFdgKBH0wBAQEBAQGBC4QiAQEBBAEBATc0FwQCAQgQAQMBAh8QJwsdCAIEARKILA3XKgEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEZizqFDAaEJwWSZYQvhkuBJz6DKpF9I4N4b4FFgQEBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,450,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="417358496" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 May 2015 03:48:09 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com [173.36.12.76]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4I3m96W007630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 May 2015 03:48:09 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.231]) by xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com ([173.36.12.76]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sun, 17 May 2015 22:48:08 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: "straw@ietf.org" , Francis Dupont Thread-Topic: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-07.txt Thread-Index: AQHQkR101/eROy6zZEGhDbWY+A/TPw== Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 03:48:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150518034553.11603.97270.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150518034553.11603.97270.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [10.65.59.212] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4E64096EFD22C44389C54511A429B390@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-07.txt X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 03:48:12 -0000 This version addresses few nits received from Francis Dupont as part of Gen-ART review. Diffs is at=20 https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-07 Regards, Ram -----Original Message----- From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" Date: Monday, 18 May 2015 9:15 am To: "i-d-announce@ietf.org" Cc: "straw@ietf.org" Subject: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-07.txt > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. > This draft is a work item of the Sip Traversal Required for Applications >to Work Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) >Message Handling for Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User >Agents (B2BUAs) > Authors : Ram Mohan Ravindranath > Tirumaleswar Reddy > Gonzalo Salgueiro > Filename : draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-07.txt > Pages : 14 > Date : 2015-05-17 > >Abstract: > Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) > are often designed to be on the media path, rather than just > intercepting signaling. This means that B2BUAs often act on the > media path leading to separate media legs that the B2BUA correlates > and bridges together. When acting on the media path, B2BUAs are > likely to receive Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) packets > as part of Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) processing. > > This document defines behavior for a B2BUA performing ICE processing. > The goal of this draft is to ensure that B2BUAs properly handles SIP > messages that carry ICE semantics in Session Description > Protocol(SDP) and STUN messages received as part of the ICE > procedures for NAT and Firewall traversal of multimedia sessions. > > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-07 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-07 > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >submission >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > >_______________________________________________ >straw mailing list >straw@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw From nobody Mon May 18 09:39:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A420B1AD0B7; Mon, 18 May 2015 09:39:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rTMtUYaJh0MK; Mon, 18 May 2015 09:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA461AD09F; Mon, 18 May 2015 09:39:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150518163931.28197.92682.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 09:39:31 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: straw@ietf.org Subject: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-08.txt X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 16:39:32 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work Working Group of the IETF. Title : Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) Message Handling for Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) Authors : Ram Mohan Ravindranath Tirumaleswar Reddy Gonzalo Salgueiro Filename : draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-08.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2015-05-18 Abstract: Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) are often designed to be on the media path, rather than just intercepting signaling. This means that B2BUAs often act on the media path leading to separate media legs that the B2BUA correlates and bridges together. When acting on the media path, B2BUAs are likely to receive Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) packets as part of Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) processing. This document defines behavior for a B2BUA performing ICE processing. The goal of this draft is to ensure that B2BUAs properly handles SIP messages that carry ICE semantics in Session Description Protocol(SDP) and STUN messages received as part of the ICE procedures for NAT and Firewall traversal of multimedia sessions. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon May 18 19:02:34 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC7CD1B2CF7; Mon, 18 May 2015 19:02:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c9Be3ZxoxZoy; Mon, 18 May 2015 19:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85FD1B2CFD; Mon, 18 May 2015 19:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150519020228.3764.85222.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 19:02:28 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: straw chair , straw mailing list , RFC Editor Subject: [straw] Protocol Action: 'Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) Message Handling for Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs)' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-08.txt) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 02:02:32 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) Message Handling for Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs)' (draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun-08.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Ben Campbell and Alissa Cooper. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-stun/ Technical Summary Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) are often designed to be on the media path, rather than just intercepting signaling. This means that B2BUAs often act on the media path leading to separate media legs that the B2BUA correlates and bridges together. When acting on the media path, B2BUAs are likely to receive Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) packets as part of Interactive Connectivity Establishment (ICE) processing. It is critical that B2BUAs handle these STUN messages properly. This document defines behavior for a B2BUA performing ICE processing. The goal of this document is to ensure that ICE used for NAT and Firewall traversal of multimedia sessions works when there are B2BUAs in place and the B2BUAs handle STUN messages properly. Working Group Summary The WG path of this document was reasonably short and efficient. Several technical comments were made during reviews and all were resolved with consensus. There is consensus in the STRAW WG to publish this document. Document Quality The guidelines and procedures in the document is based on input and experience from the implementer community. Personnel Document Shepherd: Victor Pascual Responsible AD: Ben Campbell From nobody Tue May 19 18:21:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA4111B2AD4; Tue, 19 May 2015 18:21:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dwdCNjnOFawB; Tue, 19 May 2015 18:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 769291AD059; Tue, 19 May 2015 18:21:46 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150520012146.10902.9617.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 18:21:46 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: straw@ietf.org Subject: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-01.txt X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 01:21:47 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work Working Group of the IETF. Title : DTLS-SRTP Handling in Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) Authors : Ram Mohan Ravindranath Tirumaleswar Reddy Gonzalo Salgueiro Victor Pascual Parthasarathi Ravindran Filename : draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-01.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2015-05-19 Abstract: Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) often function on the media plane, rather than just on the signaling path. This document describes the behavior B2BUAs should follow when acting on the media plane that use Secure Real-time Transport (SRTP) security context setup with Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS) protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 19 18:25:11 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58B781B2ADE for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 18:25:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 970lTUAWlUcm for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 18:25:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47B921B2ACB for ; Tue, 19 May 2015 18:25:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2150; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1432085100; x=1433294700; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=J6LMxoBvW+HpulhiEgeOZtCj72AxX+1UdxOeEYqRiKY=; b=gFxycnNuuEYqCHSEsoOpClTybB07/RLo4luca9C3Ds8F/GfwnhpxptP0 6Lb0QVvgQNd6Oqr5ZqpeqBWl1Eu0E6NBP0EU17MAm94mR9oNG2rk6HhAP 6azPjsl8izvYZ7chiOTLiBVVZFxzr7G3hKoXIB7SwajlnYAp50JQxlys6 w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DFBAAn4VtV/4cNJK1cgxBUXgbEI2YJgVAKhXYCgUY4FAEBAQEBAQGBCoQiAQEBBAEBATc0FwQCAQgRBAEBCxQJBycLFAcBAQUDAgQTCIgkDcp/AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF4s6hFQ4BoMRgRYFkmyEMYd0PoMrkgAjg3hvgUaBAQEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,461,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="151580136" Received: from alln-core-2.cisco.com ([173.36.13.135]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 May 2015 01:24:59 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com [173.36.12.76]) by alln-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4K1OxVc010685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 20 May 2015 01:24:59 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.15.253]) by xhc-aln-x02.cisco.com ([173.36.12.76]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 19 May 2015 20:24:59 -0500 From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" To: "straw@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHQkptbTHikw2XlME6I04hVPQG7hZ2EEjag Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 01:24:59 +0000 Message-ID: <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A47858847@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> References: <20150520012146.10902.9617.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150520012146.10902.9617.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.65.69.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [straw] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-01.txt X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 01:25:09 -0000 This revision addresses comments from Simon.=20 Cheers, -Tiru -----Original Message----- From: straw [mailto:straw-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ie= tf.org Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 6:52 AM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: straw@ietf.org Subject: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-01.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Sip Traversal Required for Applications t= o Work Working Group of the IETF. Title : DTLS-SRTP Handling in Session Initiation Protocol= (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) Authors : Ram Mohan Ravindranath Tirumaleswar Reddy Gonzalo Salgueiro Victor Pascual Parthasarathi Ravindran Filename : draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-01.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2015-05-19 Abstract: Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) often function on the media plane, rather than just on the signaling path. This document describes the behavior B2BUAs should follow when acting on the media plane that use Secure Real-time Transport (SRTP) security context setup with Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS) protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ straw mailing list straw@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw From nobody Wed May 20 08:58:10 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA2791A88EB for ; Wed, 20 May 2015 08:58:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NAVUBhRtUGLh for ; Wed, 20 May 2015 08:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-f178.google.com (mail-qk0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98DF51A88E8 for ; Wed, 20 May 2015 08:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qkgx75 with SMTP id x75so34691217qkg.1 for ; Wed, 20 May 2015 08:58:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=B5JK30mx9gXxyl0KeC5o+fw1eznuJDIplcgI895LDRM=; b=erN8n0Ej2yueD6+bYH8te1K64+4o8RvHUz6Ov8/6OIrSG0csZOo0MAAOvvoWpE+7ld DzazdTxOq2xKHw16WGSDRwVZqBqSAmlRVQRZ8ZRViX84P1RDVCQTUktN+XQkVh9SF7wc xbNhG76pdjK2zpb2vbBX/7s8K4n9cLYy8E1ej19emmWT96HA9M0fScFO2GmPQAnYnpyL TW+Xmk/krB8xuU5QnAsujPew+3xX/Y6ye9mtE4mrWfKDjhVWIuA6JajqwS/H4p5Fursf 5/91t7+TMxWG3HHyV2eMlw5nR9VRF2fcYvxRzOssm+6DRMWqQhPrQhwKHGwyZefF/7pI R59w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlWN866CE60bMuMlAhsELTQyUCJTrZSyUgTd4QaGy7ajr1bJkE1ihngvtRZjIHf/ZxODDNv X-Received: by 10.55.20.30 with SMTP id e30mr74368099qkh.45.1432137485832; Wed, 20 May 2015 08:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.131] ([24.53.47.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j60sm4750159qge.38.2015.05.20.08.58.04 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 May 2015 08:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <555CAF0B.5030300@jive.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 11:58:03 -0400 From: Simon Perreault User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@tools.ietf.org, straw@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [straw] DTLS-SRTP relay + forking X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 15:58:08 -0000 Thinking a little bit more about forking, there is something important that I think needs to be added to the draft. Topology graph: A ---------------- B2BUA ---------------+---- B | +---- C A call from A is relayed by the B2BUA and then gets forked to B and C. DTLS-SRTP deals with 5-tuples pretty intimately. First, the DTLS connection is on its own 5-tuple. Having multiple DTLS connections on the same 5-tuple will not work. Therefore, when the B2BUA relays DTLS packets from B and C back to A, it must use different 5-tuples. Since the destination, A, will necessarily be the same, this means that different source 3-tuples must be used by the B2BUA for packets relayed from B and packets relayed from C. Second, keying material extracted from a DTLS connection applies to SRTP packets flowing on the same 5-tuple as the DTLS connection. Therefore, different 5-tuples need to be used for SRTP pakets between A and the B2BUA. What this all means is that the B2BUA needs to do some kind of application-layer NAT. It needs to track remote sources (B, C, etc.) and map them to local sources that are used to send packets to A. Makes sense? Simon From nobody Wed May 20 21:39:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B5731AD071 for ; Wed, 20 May 2015 21:39:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qUga5L4kHEwf for ; Wed, 20 May 2015 21:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D96961AD06F for ; Wed, 20 May 2015 21:39:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1958; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1432183190; x=1433392790; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=Ic13t7onnA+JionucC8wpJD1Bf2GuEPsK4IIoGy0yAA=; b=WJim4Fd3kXGteucLm75OPAjYvF2la6KVreHt2xmfhQQ4jA6BoNycKBKF GLGRCIvpt7jGf/O7GkGDwJG9zKfSPJLRLgHh/IKOMjYCgOvpmeVTn6HeD cRBEpcEi+pOdVXJdRSrSw7j5bsBbMgvoL9zKbs4ZYLQ7vSeLTaqRM9p6m M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0D7AwDYYF1V/5tdJa1cgxCBMgbDVwmHUQKBPzgUAQEBAQEBAYEKhCIBAQEEOksEAgEIDgMDAQIfEDIdCAIEARKILM9LAQEBAQEBAQECAQEBAQEBARuLOoUMBoQnAQSGZYwLiwCXFCNhgxdvgUaBAQEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,466,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="151936533" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 May 2015 04:39:50 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com [173.37.183.85]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4L4doif031665 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 May 2015 04:39:50 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.60]) by xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com ([173.37.183.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 20 May 2015 23:39:49 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Simon Perreault , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@tools.ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: DTLS-SRTP relay + forking Thread-Index: AQHQk4Arj0w5ZlAfe0OxSs7x3OBM1Q== Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 04:39:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <555CAF0B.5030300@jive.com> In-Reply-To: <555CAF0B.5030300@jive.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.7.141117 x-originating-ip: [10.65.51.159] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <6F3A22EA002C1545970156860AE4AC02@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [straw] DTLS-SRTP relay + forking X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 04:39:52 -0000 Hi Simon, Thanks for the input. You are right that for forking cases the B2BUA should act like a NAT and create unique binding (on peer leg) for each forked response. Will add some text in the next revision. Regards, Ram -----Original Message----- From: Simon Perreault Date: Wednesday, 20 May 2015 9:28 pm To: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@tools.ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" Subject: DTLS-SRTP relay + forking Resent-From: Resent-To: Resent-Date: Wednesday, 20 May 2015 9:28 pm >Thinking a little bit more about forking, there is something important >that I think needs to be added to the draft. > >Topology graph: > >A ---------------- B2BUA ---------------+---- B > | > +---- C > >A call from A is relayed by the B2BUA and then gets forked to B and C. > >DTLS-SRTP deals with 5-tuples pretty intimately. First, the DTLS >connection is on its own 5-tuple. Having multiple DTLS connections on >the same 5-tuple will not work. Therefore, when the B2BUA relays DTLS >packets from B and C back to A, it must use different 5-tuples. Since >the destination, A, will necessarily be the same, this means that >different source 3-tuples must be used by the B2BUA for packets relayed >from B and packets relayed from C. > >Second, keying material extracted from a DTLS connection applies to SRTP >packets flowing on the same 5-tuple as the DTLS connection. Therefore, >different 5-tuples need to be used for SRTP pakets between A and the >B2BUA. > >What this all means is that the B2BUA needs to do some kind of >application-layer NAT. It needs to track remote sources (B, C, etc.) and >map them to local sources that are used to send packets to A. > >Makes sense? > >Simon From nobody Thu May 21 01:50:23 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 408671A89AF for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 01:50:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GLaEFUKZbOmV for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 01:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E8451A8AE7 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 01:50:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=83426; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1432198219; x=1433407819; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=yO7RScx0/aqBbG/WplDrVLNZW6VmY3phmrF3bYpA+xk=; b=eEhqcJpo8amXIaQbyygLk3E8NtgR/83MmHq2pyINuheo0a2uI8S9TXoG uHO+wciN/iKiMfybtUOMPvtVqPssCn+xFVPiTK/K460xUp4GgZLH8saSB XQox1UyfGqfoBaxt1LWBNP8JLCs38rOGTljelecGGUKIxhSgwmHk8bPKC 8=; X-Files: Diff draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-01.txt - draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt.htm : 58437 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DABACyml1V/4gNJK1cgxBUXgaFIr0PPCoJgTcZAQuFdQKBRDgUAQEBAQEBAYEKhCIBAQEEAQEBJAZBFwQCAQgRAwEBAQsWAQYHAiULFAkIAgQBEggGiB4N0B4BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXizqEVBYKDQsGgxGBFgEEhmY8i1WCEYIihESDOBMrgy2SCiNhfIIbbwGBRYEBAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,467,1427760000"; d="htm'217?scan'217,208,217";a="682814" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 May 2015 08:49:55 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com [173.37.183.84]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4L8nr6a031924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 21 May 2015 08:49:53 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.15.253]) by xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([173.37.183.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 21 May 2015 03:49:52 -0500 From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , Simon Perreault , "straw@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: DTLS-SRTP relay + forking Thread-Index: AQHQkxXMpNauhhDgrUerWN00bsngN52GLf2A///xpaA= Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 08:49:51 +0000 Message-ID: <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A478592CB@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> References: <555CAF0B.5030300@jive.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.65.35.127] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_002_913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A478592CBxmbrcdx10ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [straw] DTLS-SRTP relay + forking X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 08:50:22 -0000 --_002_913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A478592CBxmbrcdx10ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Simon, Attached diff of updated draft to address the comment. Please have a look. Cheers, -Tiru > -----Original Message----- > From: straw [mailto:straw-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ram Mohan R > (rmohanr) > Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 10:10 AM > To: Simon Perreault; draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@tools.ietf.org; > straw@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [straw] DTLS-SRTP relay + forking >=20 > Hi Simon, >=20 > Thanks for the input. You are right that for forking cases the B2BUA shou= ld act > like a NAT and create unique binding (on peer leg) for each forked respon= se. > Will add some text in the next revision. >=20 > Regards, > Ram >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Perreault > Date: Wednesday, 20 May 2015 9:28 pm > To: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@tools.ietf.org" > , "straw@ietf.org" > > Subject: DTLS-SRTP relay + forking > Resent-From: > Resent-To: > Resent-Date: Wednesday, 20 May 2015 9:28 pm >=20 > >Thinking a little bit more about forking, there is something important > >that I think needs to be added to the draft. > > > >Topology graph: > > > >A ---------------- B2BUA ---------------+---- B > > | > > +---- C > > > >A call from A is relayed by the B2BUA and then gets forked to B and C. > > > >DTLS-SRTP deals with 5-tuples pretty intimately. First, the DTLS > >connection is on its own 5-tuple. Having multiple DTLS connections on > >the same 5-tuple will not work. Therefore, when the B2BUA relays DTLS > >packets from B and C back to A, it must use different 5-tuples. Since > >the destination, A, will necessarily be the same, this means that > >different source 3-tuples must be used by the B2BUA for packets relayed > >from B and packets relayed from C. > > > >Second, keying material extracted from a DTLS connection applies to > >SRTP packets flowing on the same 5-tuple as the DTLS connection. > >Therefore, different 5-tuples need to be used for SRTP pakets between A > >and the B2BUA. > > > >What this all means is that the B2BUA needs to do some kind of > >application-layer NAT. It needs to track remote sources (B, C, etc.) > >and map them to local sources that are used to send packets to A. > > > >Makes sense? > > > >Simon >=20 > _______________________________________________ > straw mailing list > straw@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw --_002_913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A478592CBxmbrcdx10ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/html; name="Diff draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-01.txt - draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt.htm" Content-Description: Diff draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-01.txt - draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt.htm Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Diff draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-01.txt - draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt.htm"; size=58437; creation-date="Thu, 21 May 2015 07:13:15 GMT"; modification-date="Thu, 21 May 2015 07:13:15 GMT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIGh0bWwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBYSFRNTCAxLjAgVHJhbnNpdGlvbmFs 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(ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 576A11B2A1F for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 09:15:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z0rkHX2YmX3Q for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 09:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-f178.google.com (mail-qk0-f178.google.com [209.85.220.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB8E81B2A1D for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 09:15:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qkx62 with SMTP id 62so12017120qkx.3 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 09:15:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; 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Message-ID: <555E04B5.60208@jive.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 12:15:49 -0400 From: Simon Perreault User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" , "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , "straw@ietf.org" References: <555CAF0B.5030300@jive.com> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A478592CB@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A478592CB@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [straw] DTLS-SRTP relay + forking X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 16:15:55 -0000 Le 2015-05-21 04:49, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) a écrit : > Attached diff of updated draft to address the comment. Please have a look. Looks good! Thanks for the quick RTT! One comment: "candidate" is ICE terminology. It would be better to use a more generic term, e.g. 5-tuple or transport address. Simon From nobody Thu May 21 23:10:02 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5D111A914A; Thu, 21 May 2015 23:10:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DPhTr_QSTgE1; Thu, 21 May 2015 23:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 860231A007A; Thu, 21 May 2015 23:10:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150522061000.30958.85207.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 23:10:00 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: straw@ietf.org Subject: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 06:10:02 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work Working Group of the IETF. Title : DTLS-SRTP Handling in Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) Authors : Ram Mohan Ravindranath Tirumaleswar Reddy Gonzalo Salgueiro Victor Pascual Parthasarathi Ravindran Filename : draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2015-05-21 Abstract: Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) often function on the media plane, rather than just on the signaling path. This document describes the behavior B2BUAs should follow when acting on the media plane that use Secure Real-time Transport (SRTP) security context setup with Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS) protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu May 21 23:11:16 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F841A9145 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 23:11:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y-wGWx-K36TK for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 23:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79F301A007A for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 23:11:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2151; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1432275073; x=1433484673; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=xFSTc/mmeE8GtgGqji3PMrxSDg+IK20SvhyjkO6jnaM=; b=eVUND4uYxb+QapMALCUw3uDlCQRqdnj1gtn2QcpkZ4nDuvWFCkLfegpA N40ZfOPujbj4qARdUC/7TjqFUJ4EXWrFbxpOr+Y+ejXz3U/2QZ532nMza 586Ls6lqD5bdk/m+3uilQln6ClJIPj5XBN21XJK+Hc7UXnihK6U8qvLJv I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DEBAAVyF5V/5FdJa1cgxBUXgbCLWYJgU8KhXcCgTs4FAEBAQEBAQGBCoQiAQEBBAEBATc0FwQCAQgRBAEBCxQJBycLFAcBAQUDAgQTCIgkDdJlAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF4s6hFQ4BoMRgRYFkn2ENYd/PoMxkg4jg3hvgUaBAQEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.13,474,1427760000"; d="scan'208";a="152403800" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 May 2015 06:11:12 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com [173.36.12.85]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t4M6BCg2022047 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 06:11:12 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.15.253]) by xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com ([173.36.12.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 22 May 2015 01:11:12 -0500 From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" To: "straw@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHQlFX0MLapcIMIQ0Wk9lD7400p/52Hg09Q Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 06:11:11 +0000 Message-ID: <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A4785A18B@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> References: <20150522061000.30958.85207.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20150522061000.30958.85207.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.65.37.83] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [straw] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 06:11:16 -0000 This revision addresses forking related comments from Simon. -Tiru -----Original Message----- From: straw [mailto:straw-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ie= tf.org Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 11:40 AM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: straw@ietf.org Subject: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Sip Traversal Required for Applications t= o Work Working Group of the IETF. Title : DTLS-SRTP Handling in Session Initiation Protocol= (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) Authors : Ram Mohan Ravindranath Tirumaleswar Reddy Gonzalo Salgueiro Victor Pascual Parthasarathi Ravindran Filename : draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2015-05-21 Abstract: Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) often function on the media plane, rather than just on the signaling path. This document describes the behavior B2BUAs should follow when acting on the media plane that use Secure Real-time Transport (SRTP) security context setup with Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS) protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ straw mailing list straw@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw From nobody Fri May 22 07:57:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60C651A1A92 for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 07:57:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.235 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.235 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DL8aLxF7dGeB for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 07:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9A221A1A0B for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 07:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.108]) by resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id X2vZ1q0042LrikM012x2Ho; Fri, 22 May 2015 14:57:02 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([50.138.229.151]) by resomta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id X2x11q00G3Ge9ey012x1pu; Fri, 22 May 2015 14:57:02 +0000 Message-ID: <555F43BC.1020100@alum.mit.edu> Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 10:57:00 -0400 From: Paul Kyzivat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: straw@ietf.org References: <20150522061000.30958.85207.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A4785A18B@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A4785A18B@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1432306622; bh=n5Fe1OSATaxkNXtekbIOKX1lh4yAmIAqIZVceTdmmpM=; h=Received:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject: Content-Type; b=ntTXjiZA1BkVtEMuICK2RhrsK18zp/nmaTbj7xhor7IVyNzy/AFY7wuMxtZgryd3K 8t41vi1nVTWOP4wSwQlE0s84G1pe7hnzXQ98dJLbL222zeLfXZsun70+eSu1UyzfBZ 6D2g0AscYZTUJMxoy6zWJNGMagWDRvqqtIQOjxHnuRLxSeBGwdeGHCdDQ5N9yPUuuo 8g1n8zdLEFxcOitK2zClRz78FfeRcooX0cE9oIkQuzN7spviMPEYo72ycaIgXVjf/R O/E6tarKJi2ACsFSoBH+j0IY9BXMkp5G6H11QWyDgAMhE0pceosjxTjkchaQLVfFA2 cOAC/CGOlIXQQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [straw] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 14:57:04 -0000 A minor issue with this revision: The new text uses an address (192.0.3.1) that falls outside the range reserved for examples (192.0.2.0/24). Thanks, Paul On 5/22/15 2:11 AM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: > This revision addresses forking related comments from Simon. > > -Tiru > > -----Original Message----- > From: straw [mailto:straw-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 11:40 AM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: straw@ietf.org > Subject: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : DTLS-SRTP Handling in Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) > Authors : Ram Mohan Ravindranath > Tirumaleswar Reddy > Gonzalo Salgueiro > Victor Pascual > Parthasarathi Ravindran > Filename : draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt > Pages : 10 > Date : 2015-05-21 > > Abstract: > Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) > often function on the media plane, rather than just on the signaling > path. This document describes the behavior B2BUAs should follow when > acting on the media plane that use Secure Real-time Transport (SRTP) > security context setup with Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS) > protocol. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > straw mailing list > straw@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw > > _______________________________________________ > straw mailing list > straw@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw > From nobody Fri May 22 08:26:52 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 218451A00EA for ; 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Fri, 22 May 2015 10:26:48 -0500 From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" To: Paul Kyzivat , "straw@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [straw] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHQlJ+aT/r2B0alvk2aAOE0WRcIp52IHfcg Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 15:26:48 +0000 Message-ID: <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A4785AC55@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> References: <20150522061000.30958.85207.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A4785A18B@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> <555F43BC.1020100@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <555F43BC.1020100@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.65.37.83] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [straw] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 15:26:51 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: straw [mailto:straw-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 8:27 PM > To: straw@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [straw] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.= txt >=20 > A minor issue with this revision: >=20 > The new text uses an address (192.0.3.1) that falls outside the range res= erved > for examples (192.0.2.0/24). Thanks, fixed in my local copy. -Tiru >=20 > Thanks, > Paul >=20 > On 5/22/15 2:11 AM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: > > This revision addresses forking related comments from Simon. > > > > -Tiru > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: straw [mailto:straw-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > internet-drafts@ietf.org > > Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 11:40 AM > > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > Cc: straw@ietf.org > > Subject: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Sip Traversal Required for Applicati= ons to > Work Working Group of the IETF. > > > > Title : DTLS-SRTP Handling in Session Initiation Pro= tocol (SIP) Back- > to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) > > Authors : Ram Mohan Ravindranath > > Tirumaleswar Reddy > > Gonzalo Salgueiro > > Victor Pascual > > Parthasarathi Ravindran > > Filename : draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02.txt > > Pages : 10 > > Date : 2015-05-21 > > > > Abstract: > > Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) > > often function on the media plane, rather than just on the signalin= g > > path. This document describes the behavior B2BUAs should follow wh= en > > acting on the media plane that use Secure Real-time Transport (SRTP= ) > > security context setup with Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS= ) > > protocol. > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp/ > > > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-02 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.iet= f.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > straw mailing list > > straw@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw > > > > _______________________________________________ > > straw mailing list > > straw@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > straw mailing list > straw@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw