From nobody Tue Mar 1 03:37:26 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietf.org Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A0C01A1B24; Tue, 1 Mar 2016 03:37:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen Farrell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.15.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160301113723.19898.24200.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 03:37:23 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@ietf.org, straw@ietf.org, straw-chairs@ietf.org, christer.holmberg@ericsson.com Subject: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-10: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 11:37:23 -0000 Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-10: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my discuss points. You still have a reference to 3.1.1 in section 5.1.2, which I guess should now be a reference to 5.1.1. I didn't check if there are any other similar internal references that need fixing. From nobody Tue Mar 1 04:19:05 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC251B2AFC; Tue, 1 Mar 2016 04:19:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.507 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.507 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.006, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LQCvHAblJD5Q; Tue, 1 Mar 2016 04:19:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B32C21B2AFD; Tue, 1 Mar 2016 04:19:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1830; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1456834741; x=1458044341; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=3fTjMDQ6qOrJKTb4sse4ELJS8fK0GkdP//oB+bW3Rb0=; b=e/HnNuVhS56AJUyG5tbYwMqUkncFBFjNMviiwHw+MlyfRoD/glIywiSC gDNAJATg4SbrwJL6duCAiLDWG0OUCiLJy1CszNQusB4/9F/cfdQFYeIri jUwfMxsVW9Q32KwvdbubT5JkVN5UQanIbcQk0B0FlzuoV5V3dTNTaGX4N 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AUAgC5h9VW/4oNJK1egzpSbQa6JgENg?= =?us-ascii?q?WYXCoVyAoFCOBQBAQEBAQEBZCeEQQEBAQQBAQE3NAsMBAIBCBEDAQIfECcLHQg?= =?us-ascii?q?CBAENBYgfDr9tAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBEQSKTIQFEQFQhAgFh1ePN?= =?us-ascii?q?wGFWIgJgWCERIhSjksBHgEBQoIwgTRqAYcZNH4BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.22,523,1449532800"; d="scan'208";a="81809696" Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 01 Mar 2016 12:19:00 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-018.cisco.com (xch-rcd-018.cisco.com [173.37.102.28]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u21CJ0jd001938 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 1 Mar 2016 12:19:00 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-017.cisco.com (173.37.102.27) by XCH-RCD-018.cisco.com (173.37.102.28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 1 Mar 2016 06:18:59 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-017.cisco.com ([173.37.102.27]) by XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com ([173.37.102.27]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Tue, 1 Mar 2016 06:19:00 -0600 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Stephen Farrell , The IESG Thread-Topic: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-10: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRc7SJE5LWzBoutkm0qVPYpYp2vQ== Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 12:19:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20160301113723.19898.24200.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20160301113723.19898.24200.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.1.160122 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.81.158] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <699DBF60EC9EEB42B45E9C09AD9EE73C@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@ietf.org" , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" , "straw@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-10: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2016 12:19:03 -0000 Thanks Stephen for your review. I will fix the reference in section 5.1.2 which should be 5.1.1 as you pointed out. Regards, Ram -----Original Message----- From: straw on behalf of Stephen Farrell Date: Tuesday, 1 March 2016 at 5:07 PM To: The IESG Cc: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: [straw] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-10: (with COMMENT) >Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for >draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-10: No Objection > >When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >introductory paragraph, however.) > > >Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > >The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp/ > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >COMMENT: >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >Thanks for addressing my discuss points. > >You still have a reference to 3.1.1 in section 5.1.2, which I guess >should now be a reference to 5.1.1. I didn't check if there are any >other similar internal references that need fixing. > > >_______________________________________________ >straw mailing list >straw@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw From nobody Fri Mar 4 06:48:18 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D6351A1A8D for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 06:48:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.402 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.402 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VxK8hhaRMizA for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 06:48:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0797.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:797]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 777AA1A1A6B for ; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 06:48:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=metaswitch.com; s=selector1; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=CuooW3C37NZNLHa6QSpR46BgWpPL8LQxlJVt8ckiFOU=; b=Rp80k1tL7cuMwbYeGFQ34emXddlqHm2dp/aCuiw1AvaZoMvwHOZYQIIPC+hjsjn8J9pQ4Ww14rvZ56eOnLs6sJsbKHX/S1ypZOEwuzlsaudNrKwhfB6134p3L0Lff0MP4y1upUmaRz8NRdgJLL59V/e69JVN3N7SNQ+fnbUf0oE= Received: from BLUPR02MB1185.namprd02.prod.outlook.com (10.163.80.14) by BLUPR02MB1187.namprd02.prod.outlook.com (10.163.80.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.427.16; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 14:47:52 +0000 Received: from BLUPR02MB1185.namprd02.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.80.14]) by BLUPR02MB1185.namprd02.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.80.14]) with mapi id 15.01.0409.024; Fri, 4 Mar 2016 14:47:52 +0000 From: Martin Taylor To: "straw@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: I-D on RTP failover problem Thread-Index: AdF2JENdXrt51yDYQ5GXEGhjKlPX5A== Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2016 14:47:52 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=metaswitch.com; x-originating-ip: [185.82.159.246] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: a9ff6793-20ee-421d-cf30-08d3443bf70e x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BLUPR02MB1187; 5:FhfjAC67QcG4k+zuAZ/bbdImgrCe0vVoxph1S2YBHR+o98/T5sqtXjimTA5jF9ALj8XE2CTFzbkwglvit7Dq92J7yAZbtKIyU8ZizGbBBulL/4IDpDsEq/v7NbU77fuShcjsdsTfoRfjx+GKlXyTKg==; 24:twq3vmTo9tOzhA4d1o8OUX77bP+V0ZzRGMes82YZJZKmsTGRxPq7BrwM7BPpL899MR6kI3QTGmeDnotS/OoKEen7Msn6r9h+L39q6RxvAPg= x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR02MB1187; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(3002001)(10201501046); SRVR:BLUPR02MB1187; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BLUPR02MB1187; x-forefront-prvs: 0871917CDA x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(40100003)(5003600100002)(1096002)(1220700001)(102836003)(122556002)(5002640100001)(6116002)(586003)(3846002)(33656002)(76576001)(11100500001)(19580395003)(5008740100001)(2906002)(2501003)(15975445007)(2900100001)(3280700002)(77096005)(3660700001)(81166005)(54356999)(66066001)(50986999)(2351001)(229853001)(99286002)(74316001)(450100001)(110136002)(189998001)(107886002)(10400500002)(1730700002)(86362001)(92566002)(87936001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR02MB1187; H:BLUPR02MB1185.namprd02.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: metaswitch.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Mar 2016 14:47:52.7449 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 9d9e56eb-f613-4ddb-b27b-bfcdf14b2cdb X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR02MB1187 Archived-At: Subject: [straw] I-D on RTP failover problem X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2016 14:48:17 -0000 I recently posted https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-taylor-mmusic-rtp-failove= r-problem-00.txt This offers a problem statement around RTP failover. The= TL;DR summary: - VoIP networks typically contain network functions that terminate large nu= mbers of RTP streams, such as session border controllers and conference bri= dges. - Service providers typically require that such network functions have no s= ingle points of failure that could cause large numbers of media streams to = be interrupted for more than a second or two. - The usual solution for this is to deploy such network functions as an act= ive / standby pair with a service IP address that can be moved between memb= ers of the pair, for example with the aid of a gratuitous ARP, in a manner = analogous to VRRP. - This solution suffers from a number of drawbacks including inefficient us= e of hardware resources and inability to deploy in environments where it is= impractical to connect active and standby instances to the same L2 segment= . These drawbacks are causing network operators particular concern in netw= ork function virtualization environments. We were planning to propose a solution to this problem that would likely in= volve some extensions to SDP to communicate a connection address for an alt= ernative backup media path, but at this point we are looking for a consensu= s that this is a worthwhile problem to address. So far, this I-D has not generated any reactions on the mmusic or avtcore m= ailing lists. I realize that straw is primarily focused on SIP traversal i= ssues, but it occurs to me that many of the contributors to straw have an i= nterest in real-world issues around session border controllers, and this ce= rtainly falls into that category. Martin From nobody Mon Mar 7 22:11:44 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietf.org Delivered-To: straw@ietfc.amsl.com Received: from ietfc.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfc.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07D9C1CE02B; Mon, 7 Mar 2016 22:11:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.15.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160308061141.22011.20485.idtracker@ietfc.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 22:11:41 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: straw@ietf.org Subject: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-11.txt X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2016 06:11:41 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work of the IETF. Title : DTLS-SRTP Handling in Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) Authors : Ram Mohan Ravindranath Tirumaleswar Reddy Gonzalo Salgueiro Victor Pascual Parthasarathi Ravindran Filename : draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-11.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2016-03-07 Abstract: Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUA) exist on the signaling and media paths between the endpoints. This document describes the behavior of B2BUAs when Secure Real-time Transport (SRTP) security context is set up with the Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS) protocol. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Mar 7 22:13:22 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfc.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfc.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfc.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69FF71CE02D for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2016 22:13:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfc.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.41]) by localhost (ietfc.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qKPCKCFE4Ex1 for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2016 22:13:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfc.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38EA81CE02E for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2016 22:13:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2184; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1457417600; x=1458627200; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=yRqlghmZjf7Io6ImhGVoKSRIH5yzd4lKDv76e/NuGSA=; b=dKy+pUcjT+2O1/Pfy/Vh5XPJ0Qhs7fnpxM6Poytp38IBbTKMPKdzfX6W 6+F12oFR3BBDAXI5rKDz775jrMBo+unrY+Wj0fuquwlm+hPCBnJbtCAsh N9y1QxgqrjMHwfhAhqdWq2HBE7VWaoppBLYMPgqL1MdMuhSG4UI92byFc k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D5AQBWbN5W/5xdJa1cgzpSbQa6QgENg?= =?us-ascii?q?WkXCoVuAoE1OBQBAQEBAQEBZBwLhEEBAQEEAQEBNzQXBAIBCBEDAQIfECcLHQg?= =?us-ascii?q?CBBOIJA6+PQEBAQEBAQEBAgEBAQEBAQEBGIpUiHQFlyoBhWKIC4FjS4N5iFOOV?= =?us-ascii?q?QEeAQFCg2RqiQF+AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.22,555,1449532800"; d="scan'208";a="246781074" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 08 Mar 2016 06:13:18 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-019.cisco.com (xch-rcd-019.cisco.com [173.37.102.29]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u286DI6D008214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 8 Mar 2016 06:13:18 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-017.cisco.com (173.37.102.27) by XCH-RCD-019.cisco.com (173.37.102.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 8 Mar 2016 00:13:17 -0600 Received: from xch-rcd-017.cisco.com ([173.37.102.27]) by XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com ([173.37.102.27]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Tue, 8 Mar 2016 00:13:18 -0600 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: "straw@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-11.txt Thread-Index: AQHReQFqJndPjxFgp0OW4kUwv0pX+p9P1IkA Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 06:13:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20160308061141.22011.20485.idtracker@ietfc.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20160308061141.22011.20485.idtracker@ietfc.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.1.160122 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.196.95.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-11.txt X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2016 06:13:21 -0000 Addresses the nits pointed by Stephen during IESG reviews. Ram -----Original Message----- From: straw on behalf of "internet-drafts@ietf.org" Date: Tuesday, 8 March 2016 at 11:41 AM To: "i-d-announce@ietf.org" Cc: "straw@ietf.org" Subject: [straw] I-D Action: draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-11.txt > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. >This draft is a work item of the Sip Traversal Required for Applications >to Work of the IETF. > > Title : DTLS-SRTP Handling in Session Initiation >Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUAs) > Authors : Ram Mohan Ravindranath > Tirumaleswar Reddy > Gonzalo Salgueiro > Victor Pascual > Parthasarathi Ravindran > Filename : draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-11.txt > Pages : 13 > Date : 2016-03-07 > >Abstract: > Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) Back-to-Back User Agents (B2BUA) > exist on the signaling and media paths between the endpoints. This > document describes the behavior of B2BUAs when Secure Real-time > Transport (SRTP) security context is set up with the Datagram > Transport Layer Security (DTLS) protocol. > > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp/ > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-11 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-11 > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >submission >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > >_______________________________________________ >straw mailing list >straw@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw From nobody Sat Mar 19 05:40:51 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A374912D7A5 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 05:40:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=vK4M/8bX; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=OC6zdwGa Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 41jkO7sAsVI8 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 05:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CAC412D7AD for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 05:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B2D720756 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 08:35:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 19 Mar 2016 08:35:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-sasl-enc :x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=gRqvTGx/PuIqTzqUQWbVQliUxT0=; b=vK4M/8 bX3CkBVQPG82XXTUNf909snkRZw8BCXgqf1B0D5WWlTFEqgwb7PIykCmrawJ2Bjx qGKTYtnbjnmdSUXZMw+JErTfydVveIGngA8QvJEKbu4xeGopCVga7Cwq6aPn+c9q adC2eaKOofS9iFmgK2yeEnGERvTlWv+nADSkI= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=gRqvTGx/PuIqTzq UQWbVQliUxT0=; b=OC6zdwGaJKPq3aDBDK3oDC3uGlEytGmG9VeyHI3JfGvK8R2 C+ej6RnC0mhJwg+WLpQ9iM2HpsivQfVW/oHICJxN4b/JSLhMSsl38sed2qUI0xJh XuFjt11ftuDbvqEa5JjO7FAcNlOc7IUy/GmAfCYueA7aioKhDleYunWDKrbM= X-Sasl-enc: NVxf3CghXA+W164ORD+b1UHV/+pgTuqvNfP5tQ+o7MAs 1458390904 Received: from sjc-alcoop-8813.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.241.190]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 7F882C00014; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 08:35:03 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 05:35:09 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) Archived-At: Cc: Ben Campbell , "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@ietf.org" , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" , IESG , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 12:40:49 -0000 I took a look at the latest version of this document. It has definitely = improved, but I still find it problematic in a few ways. =3D Sec 1.1 and 1.2 =3D The language about the narrow case for which this document=E2=80=99s = guidance is targeted is better. But I think it needs to emphasize just = how much of a corner case this is. RFC 7362 recommends against latching, = and address hiding is more often provided using TURN. Rather than saying = things like "there are certain B2BUAs that are typically deployed for = address hiding or media latching, as described in [RFC7362]=E2=80=9D = without any of that context, I would suggest something like =E2=80=9CB2BUA= s may be deployed for address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], = although TURN is more often used for this purpose and media latching is = not recommended due to its security properties.=E2=80=9D =3D Sec. 1.2 and 7 =3D I still find it odd to say that various flavors of B2BUA are =E2=80=9Couts= ide the scope of this document=E2=80=9D when in fact the document spends = most of its words describing how those B2BUAs would not be expected to = conform to its recommendations. Instead of saying that the specific = types of implementations are =E2=80=9Coutside the scope of this = document,=E2=80=9D I would recommend saying that the recommendations = made in the document are not expected to be applied by those types of = B2BUAs given deployment reality. =3D Sec 4 and 5 =3D I gather that these sections are intended to explain which kinds of = B2BUAs are expected to be able to comply with the recommendations in Sec = 3 and how, which is good. I would recommend making that explicit in the = section headings and the intro to each section. In particular, it=E2=80=99= s not clear to me why the intro to Sec 4 talks about impact on DTLS-SRTP = and the intro to Sec 5 (and the section titles) talk about handling of = DTLS-SRTP. I thought the two sections were supposed to be giving = parallel explanations for the different kinds of B2BUAs. =3D Sec 5.1.1 =3D Per the comment above, this text doesn=E2=80=99t make sense: "A media relay B2BUA, as described in Section 3, forwards the certificate fingerprint and SDP setup attribute it receives from one endpoint unmodified towards the other endpoint and vice-versa.=E2=80=9D= I thought Sec 3 was providing the recommended behavior, and Sec 5 was = talking about how different kinds of B2BUAs have the ability to comply = with those recommendations or not. This makes it sound like Sec 3 = defines the behavior of media relay B2BUAs.=20 Thanks, Alissa > On Jan 17, 2016, at 7:44 PM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) = wrote: >=20 > Hi Ben, >=20 > We will publish a new revision in the next couple of weeks. >=20 > Regards, > Ram >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Campbell > Date: Friday, 15 January 2016 at 4:13 AM > To: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@ietf.org" > > Cc: Cisco Employee , Alissa Cooper = , > "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" > , IESG , = "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" > > Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on > draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> What's the status on an update? >>=20 >> Thanks! >>=20 >> Ben. >>=20 >>=20 >> On 9 Dec 2015, at 14:25, Ben Campbell wrote: >>=20 >>> I had an offline discussion with Alissa and Barry yesterday. I think >>> we have a proposed way forward to deal with the "big-picture" issues >>> from Alissa's discuss. This does not necessarily cover every detail = of >>> her (or Stephen's) discuss and comments, but I think we need to deal >>> with the existential stuff first. >>>=20 >>> The draft needs clarifications to the problem statement, the draft >>> goals and scope, and a clearer separation between normative = statements >>> and non-normative considerations. >>>=20 >>> I think that would be easiest with some reorganization. Here's a >>> proposed outline. (I don't think you need to stick to this outline = in >>> detail, as long as the points are clear) >>>=20 >>> Thanks! >>>=20 >>> Ben. >>> ---------------- >>>=20 >>> Problem: >>>=20 >>> - B2BUAs (especially SBCs) often make e2e dtls-srtp impossible. = There >>> are use cases where they could do their jobs and still allow e2e >>> dtls-srtp. >>> - The dtls-srtp dependency on RFC 4474 makes that hard in many = cases. >>> - What do we mean by e2e DTLS-SRTP? (I _think_ we mean from the >>> perspective of the b2bua, where that b2bua is not a party to the >>> DTLS-SRTP SA, and doesn't have the session key or private keys for >>> DTLS cert(s). >>>=20 >>> Goals and Scope: >>>=20 >>> - Goal is to provide guidance on how b2buas that could possibly do >>> their jobs without breaking e2e dtls-srtp to do so. >>> - B2BUAs exist that will still not allow e2e dtls-srtp for various >>> reasons. These are out-of-scope, and the draft should not attempt to >>> make value judgements about them. >>> - Termination of dtls-srtp at the b2bua is out of scope by = definition >>> (it's not e2e). >>>=20 >>> Normative rules for B2BUAs to allow e2e DTLS-SRTP: >>>=20 >>> - Consider both media signaling layers (including for non-media-path >>> b2buas) >>> - Discuss differences for 4474 and 4474bis, including how a b2bua >>> might tell them apart.(Hopefully 4474 will be obsolete soon, but we >>> should still discuss it, since it has significant impact on things >>> like media-latching since it signs the entire SDP payload.) >>> - Discuss differences if the b2bua acts as a 4474/4474bis >>> authenticator and/or verifier. >>>=20 >>> Implications/considerations for each b2bua type (non-normative): >>>=20 >>> - How do the normative requirements in the previous sections impact >>> the various b2bua types. >>>=20 >>> Normal security and privacy considerations. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 9 Dec 2015, at 12:50, Alissa Cooper wrote: >>>=20 >>>>> On Dec 3, 2015, at 1:12 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 2 Dec 2015, at 23:17, Alissa Cooper wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Could you articulate the reasons why someone would build a B2BUA >>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> follows the recommendations in this draft? >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> B2BUAs used in deployments like the above mentioned scenarios = can >>>>>>> use the >>>>>>> recommendations in this draft. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Ok. What I am still missing is why this draft needs to be = published >>>>>> to make that happen. This is the type of SBC to which the Section >>>>>> 3.1.1 guidance is directed. How does the behavior of existing >>>>>> media-latching SBCs differ from what 3.1.1 tells them to do? And = if >>>>>> this type of SBC implementation is the key target audience, >>>>>> doesn=C2=B9t that make the 3.1.2 guidance essentially no-ops? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Authors: >>>>>=20 >>>>> After discussion on today's telechats, and some side discussions >>>>> with Alissa, I believe this question is the lynch-pin for making = any >>>>> progress. I advise people to work this out first before worrying >>>>> about the rest of the discussion: Can we articulate how we expect >>>>> this draft will change implementer and/or operator behavior? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Obviously B2BUAs that exist for reasons that require modification = of >>>>> RTP/RTCP, or cleartext access to the encrypted bits of SRTP are = not >>>>> going to conform, and are therefore out of scope. The draft = doesn't >>>>> seem to concern itself with b2buas that are not in the media path = at >>>>> all. (Maybe it should, since there are plenty of purely >>>>> signaling-plane ways to break dtls-srtp?). >>>>>=20 >>>>> That leaves the question of b2buas in the media path that do not >>>>> require modification or cleartext access to protected bits in >>>>> srtp--effectively media-relays as described in 3.1.1 Do we believe >>>>> people do not know how to build or use such devices without = breaking >>>>> dtls-srtp? Are people aware of such devices that break dtls-srtp >>>>> when they don't need to? Perhaps by misconfiguration, or because >>>>> they use SBCs designed for more invasive use cases? >>>>=20 >>>> As Ben says, I think this draft would add value if it could >>>> articulate the problem statement, including the kinds of B2BUAs = that >>>> cause the problem, and then articulate a solution that those kinds = of >>>> B2BUAs have a reasonable chance of implementing given what they are >>>> otherwise designed to do. >>>>=20 >>>> Alissa >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks! >>>>>=20 >>>>> Ben. >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> straw mailing list >>> straw@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw >=20 From nobody Sun Mar 20 09:18:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA3A12D789 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 09:18:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -13.122 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by rcdn-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u2KGIAXi019026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 20 Mar 2016 16:18:10 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-017.cisco.com (64.101.220.157) by XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com (64.101.220.160) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:18:09 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) by XCH-RTP-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:18:09 -0400 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Alissa Cooper Thread-Topic: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRgsQXO6rZrCJaUk6hR6VG4IidQA== Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 16:18:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> In-Reply-To: <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.1.160122 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.42.248] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="euc-kr" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Ben Campbell , "straw@ietf.org" , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 16:18:15 -0000 SGkgQWxpc3NhLA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHlvdXIgZmVlZGJhY2suIFBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5saW5l 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id 7DB5E12DAE4 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 12:55:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4ELGcm5ASEea for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 12:55:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5013412DAF6 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 12:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id u2LIcJcZ061255 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 21 Mar 2016 13:38:19 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.10] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Ram Mohan R" Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 13:38:18 -0500 Message-ID: <9F61F2A3-355F-4053-B110-3899CF337A4E@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.4r5234) Archived-At: Cc: Alissa Cooper , "straw@ietf.org" , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 19:55:30 -0000 On 20 Mar 2016, at 11:18, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: [...] > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alissa Cooper [...] >> >> = Sec 1.1 and 1.2 = >> >> The language about the narrow case for which this document’s >> guidance is >> targeted is better. But I think it needs to emphasize just how much >> of a >> corner case this is. RFC 7362 recommends against latching, and >> address >> hiding is more often provided using TURN. Rather than saying things >> like >> "there are certain B2BUAs that are typically deployed for address >> hiding >> or media latching, as described in [RFC7362]” without any of that >> context, I would suggest something like “B2BUAs may be deployed for >> address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], although TURN is more >> often >> used for this purpose and media latching is not recommended due to >> its >> security properties.” > > > Ok. Will add the suggested text: > > EXISTING: > However, there are certain B2BUAs > that are typically deployed for address hiding or media latching, > as > described in [RFC7362], and such B2BUAs are able to perform their > functions without requiring termination of DTLS-SRTP sessions i.e. > these B2BUAs need not act as DTLS proxy and decrypt the RTP > payload. > > > NEW: > B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], > although TURN is more often used for this purpose and media latching > is not > recommended due to its security properties. Such B2BUAs are able to > perform their > functions without requiring termination of DTLS-SRTP sessions i.e. > these B2BUAs need not act as DTLS proxy and decrypt the RTP payload. I think the statement that TURN is more often used for media latching is at least somewhat aspirational. But I'm okay with that aspiration :-) (The reality probably varies by market type and the "purpose" of the latching, but that sort of detail would only be a distraction here.) Ben. From nobody Mon Mar 21 22:16:07 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 943D412D0C9 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 22:16:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w46gfaCYmq7E for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 22:16:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D83F12D094 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 22:16:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1257; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1458623765; x=1459833365; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=MtDqNcwSSeF+7qGuwpOin2iIU15bT0tySmRlLEp82GU=; b=eEO5akr0IiaMOuqk3dqvCF05T1SsaGzOxrXCfRpnq4qi7K5bWUBj4Pnz 1ARQ+6pDVEJZP+Y8NqpIx/mfCbQyACTD/zikqr8Qbr9NC2gW2tWTrKhJZ CdUd9BaNFghQkdYQEGakz0Qdazs7XEjqHm/uPMwu0thQsIT4oOa0AwYIO 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AaAgCr1PBW/5hdJa1egzOBTQa4K4IPA?= =?us-ascii?q?Q2BcIYNAoE3OBQBAQEBAQEBZCeEQQEBAQQ6PwwEAgEIEQMBAh8FCzIdCAIEDgW?= =?us-ascii?q?IJ74TAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGIpiihIBBJdXAY4DjwePBQEeAQFCgjCBN?= =?us-ascii?q?WqJCH4BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.24,375,1454976000"; d="scan'208";a="250605311" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Mar 2016 05:16:04 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-016.cisco.com (xch-rtp-016.cisco.com [64.101.220.156]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u2M5G3Ua004048 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:16:04 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-017.cisco.com (64.101.220.157) by XCH-RTP-016.cisco.com (64.101.220.156) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 01:16:03 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) by XCH-RTP-017.cisco.com ([64.101.220.157]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 01:16:03 -0400 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRg/ntO6rZrCJaUk6hR6VG4IidQA== Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:16:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> <9F61F2A3-355F-4053-B110-3899CF337A4E@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <9F61F2A3-355F-4053-B110-3899CF337A4E@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.1.160122 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.196.92.70] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Alissa Cooper , "straw@ietf.org" , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:16:06 -0000 Hi Ben, -----Original Message----- From: Ben Campbell Date: Tuesday, 22 March 2016 at 12:08 AM To: Cisco Employee Cc: Alissa Cooper , "straw@ietf.org" , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>NEW: >>B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], >>although TURN is more often used for this purpose and media latching >>is not >>recommended due to its security properties. Such B2BUAs are able to >>perform their >>functions without requiring termination of DTLS-SRTP sessions i.e. >>these B2BUAs need not act as DTLS proxy and decrypt the RTP payload. > >I think the statement that TURN is more often used for media latching is >at least somewhat aspirational. But I'm okay with that aspiration :-) :) Agree. There are more B2BUAs out there in field doing latching than people using TURN. But I think there is no harm in saying this way. Ram > >(The reality probably varies by market type and the "purpose" of the >latching, but that sort of detail would only be a distraction here.) From nobody Tue Mar 22 21:00:38 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E26C12D669 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 21:00:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sQOS-PpijC13 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 21:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 027E412D643 for ; 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23 Mar 2016 04:00:32 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-020.cisco.com (xch-rcd-020.cisco.com [173.37.102.30]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u2N40XQA017202 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Mar 2016 04:00:33 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-017.cisco.com (173.37.102.27) by XCH-RCD-020.cisco.com (173.37.102.30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 23:00:32 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-017.cisco.com ([173.37.102.27]) by XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com ([173.37.102.27]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 23:00:32 -0500 From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRMr+3OsGMVtPT80yeJvcykXh0sJ78ORMAgAULK4CAYGGggIAB0KOAgAG5fQCAALIuAIABFVDg Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 04:00:32 +0000 Message-ID: <1de1a6731ca44da6b9276fbbc76c7f7a@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> <9F61F2A3-355F-4053-B110-3899CF337A4E@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.33.178] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Alissa Cooper , "straw@ietf.org" , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 04:00:36 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: straw [mailto:straw-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ram Mohan R > (rmohanr) > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 10:46 AM > To: Ben Campbell > Cc: Alissa Cooper; straw@ietf.org; christer.holmberg@ericsson.com > Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dt= ls- > srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >=20 > Hi Ben, >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Campbell > Date: Tuesday, 22 March 2016 at 12:08 AM > To: Cisco Employee > Cc: Alissa Cooper , "straw@ietf.org" , > "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" > Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on > draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >=20 > >>NEW: > >>B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], > >>although TURN is more often used for this purpose and media latching > >>is not recommended due to its security properties. Such B2BUAs are > >>able to perform their functions without requiring termination of > >>DTLS-SRTP sessions i.e. > >>these B2BUAs need not act as DTLS proxy and decrypt the RTP payload. > > > >I think the statement that TURN is more often used for media latching > >is at least somewhat aspirational. But I'm okay with that aspiration > >:-) >=20 > :) Agree. There are more B2BUAs out there in field doing latching than pe= ople > using TURN. > But I think there is no harm in saying this way. How about the following text ? B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], alth= ough endpoints can use ICE, only advertise the relayed candidate allocated = by the TURN server for address privacy to the remote peer and avoid the sec= urity threats discussed in Section 5 of [RFC7362]. -Tiru >=20 > Ram > > > >(The reality probably varies by market type and the "purpose" of the > >latching, but that sort of detail would only be a distraction here.) >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > straw mailing list > straw@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw From nobody Tue Mar 22 22:44:22 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 524BE12D0C1 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 22:44:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L_qt4Mwt-auy for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 22:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0A4B12D0BD for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 22:44:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id u2N5i8ai032676 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 23 Mar 2016 00:44:08 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.10] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Tirumaleswar Reddy" Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 00:44:08 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1de1a6731ca44da6b9276fbbc76c7f7a@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> <9F61F2A3-355F-4053-B110-3899CF337A4E@nostrum.com> <1de1a6731ca44da6b9276fbbc76c7f7a@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.4r5234) Archived-At: Cc: Ram Mohan R , Alissa Cooper , "straw@ietf.org" , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 05:44:21 -0000 On 22 Mar 2016, at 23:00, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: straw [mailto:straw-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ram Mohan R >> (rmohanr) >> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 10:46 AM >> To: Ben Campbell >> Cc: Alissa Cooper; straw@ietf.org; christer.holmberg@ericsson.com >> Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on >> draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls- >> srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >> >> Hi Ben, >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ben Campbell >> Date: Tuesday, 22 March 2016 at 12:08 AM >> To: Cisco Employee >> Cc: Alissa Cooper , "straw@ietf.org" >> , >> "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" >> Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on >> draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >> >>>> NEW: >>>> B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching >>>> [RFC7362], >>>> although TURN is more often used for this purpose and media >>>> latching >>>> is not recommended due to its security properties. Such B2BUAs are >>>> able to perform their functions without requiring termination of >>>> DTLS-SRTP sessions i.e. >>>> these B2BUAs need not act as DTLS proxy and decrypt the RTP >>>> payload. >>> >>> I think the statement that TURN is more often used for media >>> latching >>> is at least somewhat aspirational. But I'm okay with that aspiration >>> :-) >> >> :) Agree. There are more B2BUAs out there in field doing latching >> than people >> using TURN. >> But I think there is no harm in saying this way. > > How about the following text ? > B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], > although endpoints can use ICE, only advertise the relayed candidate > allocated by the TURN server for address privacy to the remote peer > and avoid the security threats discussed in Section 5 of [RFC7362]. > My preference is the language that Ram and Alissa came up with (aspirational or otherwise.) Aspirational or not, I think we should make it clear that the IETF does not recommend SBC media latching and prefers TURN. Ben. From nobody Wed Mar 23 01:15:17 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D3F12D708 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 01:15:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XG5FeaWdbe-W for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 01:15:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 12D2312D691 for ; 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23 Mar 2016 08:15:14 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-020.cisco.com (xch-aln-020.cisco.com [173.36.7.30]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u2N8FE8T025738 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:15:14 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-017.cisco.com (173.37.102.27) by XCH-ALN-020.cisco.com (173.36.7.30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 03:15:13 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-017.cisco.com ([173.37.102.27]) by XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com ([173.37.102.27]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 03:15:13 -0500 From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" To: Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRMr+3OsGMVtPT80yeJvcykXh0sJ78ORMAgAULK4CAYGGggIAB0KOAgAG5fQCAALIuAIABFVDggACE3wD//8uFYA== Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:15:13 +0000 Message-ID: <77d10995fb2f460e817c18eb630e3a77@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> <9F61F2A3-355F-4053-B110-3899CF337A4E@nostrum.com> <1de1a6731ca44da6b9276fbbc76c7f7a@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.86.149] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Ram Mohan R \(rmohanr\)" , Alissa Cooper , "straw@ietf.org" , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:15:17 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 11:14 AM > To: Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) > Cc: Ram Mohan R (rmohanr); Alissa Cooper; straw@ietf.org; > christer.holmberg@ericsson.com > Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dt= ls- > srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >=20 > On 22 Mar 2016, at 23:00, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: >=20 > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: straw [mailto:straw-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ram Mohan R > >> (rmohanr) > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 10:46 AM > >> To: Ben Campbell > >> Cc: Alissa Cooper; straw@ietf.org; christer.holmberg@ericsson.com > >> Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on > >> draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls- > >> srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > >> > >> Hi Ben, > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ben Campbell > >> Date: Tuesday, 22 March 2016 at 12:08 AM > >> To: Cisco Employee > >> Cc: Alissa Cooper , "straw@ietf.org" > >> , > >> "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" > >> Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on > >> draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > >> > >>>> NEW: > >>>> B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching > >>>> [RFC7362], although TURN is more often used for this purpose and > >>>> media latching is not recommended due to its security properties. > >>>> Such B2BUAs are able to perform their functions without requiring > >>>> termination of DTLS-SRTP sessions i.e. > >>>> these B2BUAs need not act as DTLS proxy and decrypt the RTP > >>>> payload. > >>> > >>> I think the statement that TURN is more often used for media > >>> latching is at least somewhat aspirational. But I'm okay with that > >>> aspiration > >>> :-) > >> > >> :) Agree. There are more B2BUAs out there in field doing latching > >> than people using TURN. > >> But I think there is no harm in saying this way. > > > > How about the following text ? > > B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], > > although endpoints can use ICE, only advertise the relayed candidate > > allocated by the TURN server for address privacy to the remote peer > > and avoid the security threats discussed in Section 5 of [RFC7362]. > > >=20 > My preference is the language that Ram and Alissa came up with > (aspirational or otherwise.) Aspirational or not, I think we should make = it > clear that the IETF does not recommend SBC media latching and prefers > TURN. Got it, but TURN has to be used with ICE. NEW:=20 B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], alth= ough TURN [RFC5766] with ICE [RFC5245] is recommended for this purpose and = media latching is not recommended due to its security properties. >=20 > Ben. From nobody Wed Mar 23 07:23:13 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D3D012D779 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:23:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.935 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.935 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qqKb9Hdlqmau for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:23:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B691012D762 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:12:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.99]) by resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id ZSB71s00129Cfhx01SCnW2; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:12:47 +0000 Received: from Paul-Kyzivats-MacBook-Pro.local ([73.218.51.154]) by resomta-ch2-03v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id ZSCm1s00A3KdFy101SCmZc; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:12:46 +0000 To: straw@ietf.org References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> <9F61F2A3-355F-4053-B110-3899CF337A4E@nostrum.com> <1de1a6731ca44da6b9276fbbc76c7f7a@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> <77d10995fb2f460e817c18eb630e3a77@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <56F2A45E.9060003@alum.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:12:46 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <77d10995fb2f460e817c18eb630e3a77@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1458742367; bh=0r1Mag6IgWOoMmXHUvQlKyU1XC1TDK8oeZQLs3JQyUQ=; h=Received:Received:Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=Z9yU0t/AVByL7FP5V/WfVT3CF+LN+4Zo+zKNw5QV7eodKlnL110VW3tzxu25E33CL P6zJX7tBDRTBMVjHi5FtuPQuMew5RN/poJ03fdNdMB3UVkVnSGrHZumQiLzVb20CgZ oKGaT0LEpkTze7YdSeEkkxtlQxdFmtaeB3t1SqpFZUDq1NvuQFw1NPm5qs5gIL6jeL jRaE3l/YkFn7jUxdsw2zfSBQSDePZrt8ydxWkHAbzMGpZ9LEp+s07XG+IAoEqyX+4j YyOHrIw5EFdipVXEnG1xDz08sc7POIfS1ICT/fDUeq/BW5IKuHHvjtL5WDTq6O7CRr x/dnvXDAPduJA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:23:11 -0000 On 3/23/16 4:15 AM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: >> My preference is the language that Ram and Alissa came up with >> (aspirational or otherwise.) Aspirational or not, I think we should make it >> clear that the IETF does not recommend SBC media latching and prefers >> TURN. > > Got it, but TURN has to be used with ICE. Why? It *can* be used with ICE, but it can also work without ICE. If you have reason to believe that TURN will be needed then you might not bother with ICE. Thanks, Paul From nobody Wed Mar 23 07:40:12 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56EFB12D747 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:40:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rhSfqWfiEP_8 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BDCE12D755 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id u2NEYMxs027208 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:34:22 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.10] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Tirumaleswar Reddy" Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:34:21 -0500 Message-ID: <7CAC8A38-A06C-4D77-BBAA-2A0B1073C4DF@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <77d10995fb2f460e817c18eb630e3a77@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> <9F61F2A3-355F-4053-B110-3899CF337A4E@nostrum.com> <1de1a6731ca44da6b9276fbbc76c7f7a@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> <77d10995fb2f460e817c18eb630e3a77@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.4r5234) Archived-At: Cc: Ram Mohan R , Alissa Cooper , "straw@ietf.org" , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:40:11 -0000 On 23 Mar 2016, at 3:15, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 11:14 AM >> To: Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) >> Cc: Ram Mohan R (rmohanr); Alissa Cooper; straw@ietf.org; >> christer.holmberg@ericsson.com >> Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on >> draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls- >> srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >> >> On 22 Mar 2016, at 23:00, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: straw [mailto:straw-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ram Mohan >>>> R >>>> (rmohanr) >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 10:46 AM >>>> To: Ben Campbell >>>> Cc: Alissa Cooper; straw@ietf.org; christer.holmberg@ericsson.com >>>> Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on >>>> draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls- >>>> srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>>> >>>> Hi Ben, >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Ben Campbell >>>> Date: Tuesday, 22 March 2016 at 12:08 AM >>>> To: Cisco Employee >>>> Cc: Alissa Cooper , "straw@ietf.org" >>>> , >>>> "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" >>>> Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on >>>> draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>>> >>>>>> NEW: >>>>>> B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching >>>>>> [RFC7362], although TURN is more often used for this purpose and >>>>>> media latching is not recommended due to its security properties. >>>>>> Such B2BUAs are able to perform their functions without requiring >>>>>> termination of DTLS-SRTP sessions i.e. >>>>>> these B2BUAs need not act as DTLS proxy and decrypt the RTP >>>>>> payload. >>>>> >>>>> I think the statement that TURN is more often used for media >>>>> latching is at least somewhat aspirational. But I'm okay with that >>>>> aspiration >>>>> :-) >>>> >>>> :) Agree. There are more B2BUAs out there in field doing latching >>>> than people using TURN. >>>> But I think there is no harm in saying this way. >>> >>> How about the following text ? >>> B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching >>> [RFC7362], >>> although endpoints can use ICE, only advertise the relayed candidate >>> allocated by the TURN server for address privacy to the remote peer >>> and avoid the security threats discussed in Section 5 of [RFC7362]. >>> >> >> My preference is the language that Ram and Alissa came up with >> (aspirational or otherwise.) Aspirational or not, I think we should >> make it >> clear that the IETF does not recommend SBC media latching and prefers >> TURN. > > Got it, but TURN has to be used with ICE. Sure, but it's not the point of this draft to teach the details of how to use TURN. > NEW: > B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], > although TURN [RFC5766] with ICE [RFC5245] is recommended for this > purpose and media latching is not recommended due to its security > properties. I am okay with either this wording or Ram's. From nobody Wed Mar 23 07:53:43 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5890B12D14D for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:53:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GcEnCQp6AFks for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FEF212D50B for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 07:52:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1295; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1458744742; x=1459954342; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=TW7jH0qFsuq2jsSiW+RZX6PLmfYS3DjkACLgZWP01JU=; b=PBWNiqCA0baNnYYmF5tbnE7pFThrtR46iciXUV/pipbrjvzzgRXM0ROR 7AIPt8Bk2WS1sKzWX1dLsM2kBFT4lb+rdwy9b4l8ZXOOgtwqEZpk3ykCj eOa6zLGcZvSPQTCDP/zOcuoZ6DQlkUE0pKi51lp+NtHHVZwxNuuvSXwhB 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AfAgC1rPJW/4YNJK1VCQ6DJVN6BrpdA?= =?us-ascii?q?Q2BcBcKhWwCgTw4FAEBAQEBAQFkJ4RBAQEBBAEBATc0FwQCAQgOAwQBAQEeBQQ?= =?us-ascii?q?HJwsUCQgCBAESCIgfDsB4AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBEQSGHoREhBOFf?= =?us-ascii?q?wWXWgGFcIgMjxGPBgEeAQFCgjB6O2qJDX4BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.24,382,1454976000"; d="scan'208";a="85888265" Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 23 Mar 2016 14:52:21 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-016.cisco.com (xch-aln-016.cisco.com [173.36.7.26]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u2NEqLNg031286 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:52:21 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-017.cisco.com (173.37.102.27) by XCH-ALN-016.cisco.com (173.36.7.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:52:20 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-017.cisco.com ([173.37.102.27]) by XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com ([173.37.102.27]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:52:20 -0500 From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" To: Paul Kyzivat , "straw@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRMr+3OsGMVtPT80yeJvcykXh0sJ78ORMAgAULK4CAYGGggIAB0KOAgAG5fQCAALIuAIABFVDggACE3wD//8uFYIAAwpcA//+2DyA= Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:52:20 +0000 Message-ID: <7a12afc7a30e4057964919b97d685c56@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> <9F61F2A3-355F-4053-B110-3899CF337A4E@nostrum.com> <1de1a6731ca44da6b9276fbbc76c7f7a@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> <77d10995fb2f460e817c18eb630e3a77@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> <56F2A45E.9060003@alum.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <56F2A45E.9060003@alum.mit.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.86.149] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:53:41 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: straw [mailto:straw-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Paul Kyzivat > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:43 PM > To: straw@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dt= ls- > srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >=20 > On 3/23/16 4:15 AM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: >=20 > >> My preference is the language that Ram and Alissa came up with > >> (aspirational or otherwise.) Aspirational or not, I think we should > >> make it clear that the IETF does not recommend SBC media latching and > >> prefers TURN. > > > > Got it, but TURN has to be used with ICE. >=20 > Why? It *can* be used with ICE, but it can also work without ICE. If you = have > reason to believe that TURN will be needed then you might not bother with > ICE. Yes, TURN can be used without ICE. But in the context of Security considera= tions discussed in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7362#section-5, ICE is re= quired to prove the identity of the peer before data is sent (though DTLS c= an also be used be used to prove the identity). -Tiru >=20 > Thanks, > Paul >=20 > _______________________________________________ > straw mailing list > straw@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw From nobody Wed Mar 23 08:00:37 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC8612D54C for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:00:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w5RoswZDWHPM for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A722712D160 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id u2NF0Qk8029974 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:00:27 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.10] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Tirumaleswar Reddy" Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:00:25 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <7a12afc7a30e4057964919b97d685c56@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> <9F61F2A3-355F-4053-B110-3899CF337A4E@nostrum.com> <1de1a6731ca44da6b9276fbbc76c7f7a@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> <77d10995fb2f460e817c18eb630e3a77@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> <56F2A45E.9060003@alum.mit.edu> <7a12afc7a30e4057964919b97d685c56@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.4r5234) Archived-At: Cc: "straw@ietf.org" , Paul Kyzivat Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:00:36 -0000 On 23 Mar 2016, at 9:52, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: > Got it, but TURN has to be used with ICE. > >> >> Why? It *can* be used with ICE, but it can also work without ICE. If >> you have >> reason to believe that TURN will be needed then you might not bother >> with >> ICE. > > > Yes, TURN can be used without ICE. But in the context of Security > considerations discussed in > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7362#section-5, ICE is required to > prove the identity of the peer before data is sent (though DTLS can > also be used be used to prove the identity). The draft in question is about dtls-srtp :-) But again, I assert that the point here is not to teach the details of TURN and/or ICE. I don't think the draft needs to talk about when you do or do not need ICE. Ben. From nobody Wed Mar 23 08:01:54 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D7FC12D0BD for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:01:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f7rvBvxJL308 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:01:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44DC812D0C1 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 08:01:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1376; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1458745310; x=1459954910; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=Ewjk3Y01usSkZ1d0stTGfZdyKSYi2Uv7bZTw3LP8rN8=; b=Pzykc5o4Gvi2U9ZYBZOcF7tpDd1DS6M2aLwuMcpjLBVn6KEFrcair1qp l6EyZ9QAe9ejnDbv417LbqwcLtJ3819C6WamUSrUPiiTRgFOdObfTSK2D OXVGTfyz8c59muJ0M84I9NloolxhhqmAXV5AaoU3OfggqTMcm1NOPRIgk E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AfAgAxr/JW/5FdJa1VCYMzU3oGul4BD?= =?us-ascii?q?YFwFwqFbAKBPDgUAQEBAQEBAWQnhEEBAQEDAQEBATc0CwwEAgEIEQQBAQEeBQQ?= =?us-ascii?q?HJwsUCQgCBA4FCIgXCA7AYgEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAREEhh6ERIQTh?= =?us-ascii?q?X8FkwSEVgGFcIgMjxGPBgEeAQFCgjCBNWqJDX4BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.24,382,1454976000"; d="scan'208";a="252929327" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 23 Mar 2016 15:01:49 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-020.cisco.com (xch-rcd-020.cisco.com [173.37.102.30]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u2NF1nsl031496 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:01:49 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-017.cisco.com (173.37.102.27) by XCH-RCD-020.cisco.com (173.37.102.30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:01:48 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-017.cisco.com ([173.37.102.27]) by XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com ([173.37.102.27]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 10:01:48 -0500 From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" To: Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRMr+3OsGMVtPT80yeJvcykXh0sJ78ORMAgAULK4CAYGGggIAB0KOAgAG5fQCAALIuAIABFVDggACE3wD//8uFYIAAwpcA//+2DyCAAFdBgP//rIFg Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:01:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> <9F61F2A3-355F-4053-B110-3899CF337A4E@nostrum.com> <1de1a6731ca44da6b9276fbbc76c7f7a@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> <77d10995fb2f460e817c18eb630e3a77@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> <56F2A45E.9060003@alum.mit.edu> <7a12afc7a30e4057964919b97d685c56@XCH-RCD-017.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.86.149] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "straw@ietf.org" , Paul Kyzivat Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:01:52 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: straw [mailto:straw-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ben Campbell > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 8:30 PM > To: Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) > Cc: straw@ietf.org; Paul Kyzivat > Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dt= ls- > srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >=20 > On 23 Mar 2016, at 9:52, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: >=20 > > Got it, but TURN has to be used with ICE. > > > >> > >> Why? It *can* be used with ICE, but it can also work without ICE. If > >> you have reason to believe that TURN will be needed then you might > >> not bother with ICE. > > > > > > Yes, TURN can be used without ICE. But in the context of Security > > considerations discussed in > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7362#section-5, ICE is required to > > prove the identity of the peer before data is sent (though DTLS can > > also be used be used to prove the identity). >=20 > The draft in question is about dtls-srtp :-) >=20 > But again, I assert that the point here is not to teach the details of TU= RN > and/or ICE. I don't think the draft needs to talk about when you do or do= not > need ICE. Agreed. -Tiru >=20 > Ben. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > straw mailing list > straw@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw From nobody Wed Mar 23 09:04:54 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A09012D704 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:04:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nFXLMUvv7J-n for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28B1212D71B for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id l68so202569263wml.0 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:04:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=UDKGbVqxEBvGOIne2DgPzf3inDsJVbazdlWDD1N4Dzs=; b=KZJHVIfbi++zRwqaca5DGskPSW2i8Z9/sgaYDyaV4QGZjF8DqA7++8U1PYAvhRYCiM SLKGe0Xg42KksiQc9Vy2qWJgL/XuXZT4vVeM/ZvdmOCjkGWSY8wWTDWXRDVmPlrTfjf9 z06UBOyOxiGcA2118UCTWHwQRAYyCWlJxJe/us9FvLbzAYv+nMXwKVlktAchaLofl4dM IwLmiJnReRSGnu+Mi/eGYrFoZlWUwxYMvIXIveGMPf9ba/4h5I+b+te0SReMEWYZLt1L nsokVai37wN7YbVjuxWlrNTLbxmzyJ2rhhWFecbhhe8ZDW8aEvG+k6qwPik5cjIV355k n+CQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=UDKGbVqxEBvGOIne2DgPzf3inDsJVbazdlWDD1N4Dzs=; b=BJrXEOqt6Oo1HfsgpXtaHXJLJucLzr8bxo1uCTiffoFV5BYa/AA9aVDrgaFSCANw9P +KZqY2rjinPBRClEqC/WdUpY1VeDImiJpmQpWrVuGV6RPVYV4m+IU0bGvPrEcxolhqpC CUh7BexOQ3O24lA/AGC3vtMEFSflKzt8VNEXb0A3QOsZbyIjXLPtRLwtkTmIRgjMooRL P/keJH4miOr2hts8czEjRR9p6n47ZfFGcoJ0Uk1N5wn6yip0ZZiq6cFS0SIagkXbkrtw RuSZ46ha9ZGX0FuMX1sEJrGkfpbzw/VcXlQLevlE+aNTPjUoO90EmXDWgkgGIcK65fGj QOBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJsiJ7bI4kbxR/7UCeOK6FZML492wjifibwmxWTZDZsG0p6+ZaQalEIwODRsVOdJv8pP0LWTk3kOAH+/A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.111.229 with SMTP id il5mr4721338wjb.82.1458749069221; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.28.16.67 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:04:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> <9F61F2A3-355F-4053-B110-3899CF337A4E@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 17:04:29 +0100 Message-ID: From: Victor Pascual Avila To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: Ben Campbell , Alissa Cooper , "straw@ietf.org" , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:04:53 -0000 On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) wrote: >>>NEW: >>>B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], >>>although TURN is more often used for this purpose and media latching >>>is not >>>recommended due to its security properties. Such B2BUAs are able to >>>perform their >>>functions without requiring termination of DTLS-SRTP sessions i.e. >>>these B2BUAs need not act as DTLS proxy and decrypt the RTP payload. >> >>I think the statement that TURN is more often used for media latching is >>at least somewhat aspirational. But I'm okay with that aspiration :-) > > :) Agree. There are more B2BUAs out there in field doing latching than > people using TURN. > But I think there is no harm in saying this way. How about something like the following: "B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], although TURN (and ICE) is expected to be used more often for this purpose as it provides better security properties" -Victor From nobody Wed Mar 23 09:45:37 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF25D12D777 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:45:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hwa0DAFAGRBD for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3629112D773 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 09:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.10] (cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.14.9) with ESMTPSA id u2NGjKRZ040223 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 23 Mar 2016 11:45:21 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-70-119-203-4.tx.res.rr.com [70.119.203.4] claimed to be [10.0.1.10] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Victor Pascual Avila" Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 11:45:20 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> <9F61F2A3-355F-4053-B110-3899CF337A4E@nostrum.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.4r5234) Archived-At: Cc: Ram Mohan R , Alissa Cooper , "straw@ietf.org" , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:45:36 -0000 On 23 Mar 2016, at 11:04, Victor Pascual Avila wrote: > On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) > wrote: >>>> NEW: >>>> B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching >>>> [RFC7362], >>>> although TURN is more often used for this purpose and media >>>> latching >>>> is not >>>> recommended due to its security properties. Such B2BUAs are able to >>>> perform their >>>> functions without requiring termination of DTLS-SRTP sessions i.e. >>>> these B2BUAs need not act as DTLS proxy and decrypt the RTP >>>> payload. >>> >>> I think the statement that TURN is more often used for media >>> latching is >>> at least somewhat aspirational. But I'm okay with that aspiration >>> :-) >> >> :) Agree. There are more B2BUAs out there in field doing latching >> than >> people using TURN. >> But I think there is no harm in saying this way. > > How about something like the following: "B2BUAs may be deployed for > address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], although TURN (and ICE) is > expected to be used more often for this purpose as it provides better > security properties" I would personally be happy with that. The more neutral tone might be less off-putting to the target audience. Alissa, would that work for you? Ben. From nobody Wed Mar 23 15:58:35 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9352B12D0B0 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:58:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=IHMQwAOe; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=plonUm/z Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v0W6U8Y6_4Xx for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83B6712D0AA for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBBC32085E for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:58:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-sasl-enc :x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=s9RTT1pxfSq/TaBzCxH2ASBz5cE=; b=IHMQwA Oegm2cIj9Ydqw9Ku9JHN3X21tKJOWdUwjaQP/jfaYxht20/dTBDsUtIGRaKtFtcr sY1Ty4D6lUqaiJ5ZhVzpPiQz0gWxdYrZnNnuBsGGknvCW89AzOPs8eQTYuEZwt1x sQgpVKB/p/KmGadQissZx9rVdHeDPQUwrH7UI= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=s9RTT1pxfSq/TaB zCxH2ASBz5cE=; b=plonUm/zyi+01X/RaYTDKSVy41dQKCJtK/aodC68MnWCbCJ CR5D19+jn4qrTmMY0EmJ2EauuxFISSf4ox/Ren9tUrVqOSMVR7Uk5DL1Wmsskto2 tlaCUmKSSxuylVttBDV5MEuG/5uHna1yMo1YxSPhpc07TIm4C3L6JE2Aq460= X-Sasl-enc: uWvW4h1S82edEGJeVdu3Mr4BqAV5NvS/iZAfP5WYhTOS 1458773909 Received: from dhcp-171-68-122-59.cisco.com (dhcp-171-68-122-59.cisco.com [171.68.122.59]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 000A968022A; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 15:58:48 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> <9F61F2A3-355F-4053-B110-3899CF337A4E@nostrum.com> To: Ben Campbell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) Archived-At: Cc: Ram Mohan R , Victor Pascual Avila , "straw@ietf.org" , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 22:58:33 -0000 > On Mar 23, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Ben Campbell wrote: >=20 > On 23 Mar 2016, at 11:04, Victor Pascual Avila wrote: >=20 >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) >> wrote: >>>>> NEW: >>>>> B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching = [RFC7362], >>>>> although TURN is more often used for this purpose and media = latching >>>>> is not >>>>> recommended due to its security properties. Such B2BUAs are able = to >>>>> perform their >>>>> functions without requiring termination of DTLS-SRTP sessions i.e. >>>>> these B2BUAs need not act as DTLS proxy and decrypt the RTP = payload. >>>>=20 >>>> I think the statement that TURN is more often used for media = latching is >>>> at least somewhat aspirational. But I'm okay with that aspiration = :-) >>>=20 >>> :) Agree. There are more B2BUAs out there in field doing latching = than >>> people using TURN. >>> But I think there is no harm in saying this way. >>=20 >> How about something like the following: "B2BUAs may be deployed for >> address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], although TURN (and ICE) = is >> expected to be used more often for this purpose as it provides better >> security properties" >=20 > I would personally be happy with that. The more neutral tone might be = less off-putting to the target audience. >=20 > Alissa, would that work for you? WFM >=20 > Ben. From nobody Wed Mar 23 16:00:54 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF26012DA2B for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:00:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.721 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.721 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=vxBeu9R7; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=s+z6dbPa Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M0cit9RIPdCP for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9646D12DA25 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0991420DDA for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 19:00:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 23 Mar 2016 19:00:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-sasl-enc :x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=LslND6sSrgodDQrFKdkWGCFxwes=; b=vxBeu9 R7zEhzM0IUqQkZTBw7YIz2BrHOPIVOuGEWlIWubDeDbhKrKEI7WryDd47Fd32np8 3+f3tnnEFurb0jXkLAFxPZl+emIXMqKJltq2rNWwnJpGbwZbtMTowgUjY2V6dEC3 z1Ac64hfeHFJfyDNjwpJseC/iZSHf2qM6smUQ= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=LslND6sSrgodDQr FKdkWGCFxwes=; b=s+z6dbPa1/lQvx/Uvz45h03wvNea5/59tZ2rqZh8t4sCsA5 1JU/uec0F38qK2fEcBVUARRW4/Y4XzkhJxMGNUYcXKJmlFgcMVmja3QoY+6eAKwd MTokQBk7sRJpEij1edXgWn+gX9jqERKBaIrS0k7oCGribh3X5vJV8a05aaNw= X-Sasl-enc: 9jWkwaa+8SEQXxLDaHCoxrhF60Cg5EQU60K+YMQ1nRTA 1458774040 Received: from dhcp-171-68-122-59.cisco.com (dhcp-171-68-122-59.cisco.com [171.68.122.59]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5366C680230; Wed, 23 Mar 2016 19:00:40 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 16:01:00 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8C7E62D2-E8A7-4094-92F4-28C17214A1B5@cooperw.in> References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) Archived-At: Cc: Ben Campbell , "straw@ietf.org" , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: straw@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: "Sip Traversal Required for Applications to Work \(STRAW\) working group discussion list" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:00:53 -0000 Changes look good, thanks. I will clear when you post the rev. Note that I may move to ABSTAIN as I=E2=80=99m still not 100% convinced = of the value of this draft. Not sure yet. But I appreciate the = additional work you put into it. Alissa > On Mar 20, 2016, at 9:18 AM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) = wrote: >=20 > Hi Alissa, >=20 > Thanks for your feedback. Please see inline >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Alissa Cooper > Date: Saturday, 19 March 2016 at 6:05 PM > To: Cisco Employee > Cc: Ben Campbell , > "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@ietf.org" > , "straw-chairs@ietf.org" > , "straw@ietf.org" , IESG > , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" > > Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on > draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >=20 >> I took a look at the latest version of this document. It has = definitely >> improved, but I still find it problematic in a few ways. >>=20 >> =3D Sec 1.1 and 1.2 =3D >>=20 >> The language about the narrow case for which this document=E2=80=99s = guidance is >> targeted is better. But I think it needs to emphasize just how much = of a >> corner case this is. RFC 7362 recommends against latching, and = address >> hiding is more often provided using TURN. Rather than saying things = like >> "there are certain B2BUAs that are typically deployed for address = hiding >> or media latching, as described in [RFC7362]=E2=80=9D without any of = that >> context, I would suggest something like =E2=80=9CB2BUAs may be = deployed for >> address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], although TURN is more = often >> used for this purpose and media latching is not recommended due to = its >> security properties.=E2=80=9D >=20 >=20 > Ok. Will add the suggested text: >=20 > EXISTING: > However, there are certain B2BUAs > that are typically deployed for address hiding or media latching, as > described in [RFC7362], and such B2BUAs are able to perform their > functions without requiring termination of DTLS-SRTP sessions i.e. > these B2BUAs need not act as DTLS proxy and decrypt the RTP payload. >=20 >=20 > NEW: > B2BUAs may be deployed for address hiding or media latching [RFC7362], > although TURN is more often used for this purpose and media latching = is not > recommended due to its security properties. Such B2BUAs are able to > perform their > functions without requiring termination of DTLS-SRTP sessions i.e. > these B2BUAs need not act as DTLS proxy and decrypt the RTP payload. >=20 >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> =3D Sec. 1.2 and 7 =3D >>=20 >> I still find it odd to say that various flavors of B2BUA are = =E2=80=9Coutside the >> scope of this document=E2=80=9D when in fact the document spends most = of its >> words describing how those B2BUAs would not be expected to conform to = its >> recommendations. Instead of saying that the specific types of >> implementations are =E2=80=9Coutside the scope of this document,=E2=80=9D= I would >> recommend saying that the recommendations made in the document are = not >> expected to be applied by those types of B2BUAs given deployment = reality. >=20 > EXISTING: > Those B2BUAs terminating DTLS-SRTP sessions are outside the > scope of this document. >=20 > NEW: > The recommendations made in this document are not expected to be = applied > by B2BUAs terminating DTLS-SRTP sessions given deployment reality. >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> =3D Sec 4 and 5 =3D >>=20 >> I gather that these sections are intended to explain which kinds of >> B2BUAs are expected to be able to comply with the recommendations in = Sec >> 3 and how, which is good. I would recommend making that explicit in = the >> section headings and the intro to each section. In particular, it=E2=80= =99s not >> clear to me why the intro to Sec 4 talks about impact on DTLS-SRTP = and >> the intro to Sec 5 (and the section titles) talk about handling of >> DTLS-SRTP. I thought the two sections were supposed to be giving = parallel >> explanations for the different kinds of B2BUAs. >=20 > I will do the following changes: > Titles for Section 4 - =E2=80=9CBehavior of Signaling Plane B2BUAs=E2=80= =9D >=20 > Title for Section 5 - =E2=80=9C Behavior of Media Plane B2BUAs=E2=80=9D >=20 >=20 > Section 4 intro text: > EXISTING: > Section 3.1 of [RFC7092] describes different categories of signaling > plane B2BUAs. This section explains the impact these B2BUAs can have = on > end-to-end DTLS-SRTP sessions. > NEW: > Section 3.1 of [RFC7092] describes different categories of signaling > plane B2BUAs. This section explains how these B2BUAs are expected to > comply with the recommendations in Section 3 >=20 >=20 > Section 5 intro text: > EXISTING: > This section describes the DTLS-SRTP handling by the different types > of media plane B2BUAs defined in [RFC7092]. > NEW: > This section describes how the different types of media plane B2BUAs > defined in [RFC7092] > are expected to comply with the recommendations in Section 3 >=20 >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> =3D Sec 5.1.1 =3D >>=20 >> Per the comment above, this text doesn=E2=80=99t make sense: >>=20 >> "A media relay B2BUA, as described in Section 3, forwards the >> certificate fingerprint and SDP setup attribute it receives from one >> endpoint unmodified towards the other endpoint and vice-versa.=E2=80=9D= >=20 >=20 > NEW: >=20 > A media relay B2BUA follows the rule 1 mentioned in Section 3 and = forwards > the certificate fingerprint and SDP setup attribute it receives from = one > endpoint unmodified towards the other endpoint and vice-versa. >=20 > Regards, > Ram >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> I thought Sec 3 was providing the recommended behavior, and Sec 5 was >> talking about how different kinds of B2BUAs have the ability to = comply >> with those recommendations or not. This makes it sound like Sec 3 = defines >> the behavior of media relay B2BUAs. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Alissa >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Jan 17, 2016, at 7:44 PM, Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) = >>> wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Ben, >>>=20 >>> We will publish a new revision in the next couple of weeks. >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>> Ram >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ben Campbell >>> Date: Friday, 15 January 2016 at 4:13 AM >>> To: "draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp@ietf.org" >>> >>> Cc: Cisco Employee , Alissa Cooper >>> , >>> "straw-chairs@ietf.org" , "straw@ietf.org" >>> , IESG , = "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on >>> draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >>>=20 >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>> What's the status on an update? >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks! >>>>=20 >>>> Ben. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 9 Dec 2015, at 14:25, Ben Campbell wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> I had an offline discussion with Alissa and Barry yesterday. I = think >>>>> we have a proposed way forward to deal with the "big-picture" = issues >>>>> from Alissa's discuss. This does not necessarily cover every = detail of >>>>> her (or Stephen's) discuss and comments, but I think we need to = deal >>>>> with the existential stuff first. >>>>>=20 >>>>> The draft needs clarifications to the problem statement, the draft >>>>> goals and scope, and a clearer separation between normative = statements >>>>> and non-normative considerations. >>>>>=20 >>>>> I think that would be easiest with some reorganization. Here's a >>>>> proposed outline. (I don't think you need to stick to this outline = in >>>>> detail, as long as the points are clear) >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks! >>>>>=20 >>>>> Ben. >>>>> ---------------- >>>>>=20 >>>>> Problem: >>>>>=20 >>>>> - B2BUAs (especially SBCs) often make e2e dtls-srtp impossible. = There >>>>> are use cases where they could do their jobs and still allow e2e >>>>> dtls-srtp. >>>>> - The dtls-srtp dependency on RFC 4474 makes that hard in many = cases. >>>>> - What do we mean by e2e DTLS-SRTP? (I _think_ we mean from the >>>>> perspective of the b2bua, where that b2bua is not a party to the >>>>> DTLS-SRTP SA, and doesn't have the session key or private keys for >>>>> DTLS cert(s). >>>>>=20 >>>>> Goals and Scope: >>>>>=20 >>>>> - Goal is to provide guidance on how b2buas that could possibly do >>>>> their jobs without breaking e2e dtls-srtp to do so. >>>>> - B2BUAs exist that will still not allow e2e dtls-srtp for various >>>>> reasons. These are out-of-scope, and the draft should not attempt = to >>>>> make value judgements about them. >>>>> - Termination of dtls-srtp at the b2bua is out of scope by = definition >>>>> (it's not e2e). >>>>>=20 >>>>> Normative rules for B2BUAs to allow e2e DTLS-SRTP: >>>>>=20 >>>>> - Consider both media signaling layers (including for = non-media-path >>>>> b2buas) >>>>> - Discuss differences for 4474 and 4474bis, including how a b2bua >>>>> might tell them apart.(Hopefully 4474 will be obsolete soon, but = we >>>>> should still discuss it, since it has significant impact on things >>>>> like media-latching since it signs the entire SDP payload.) >>>>> - Discuss differences if the b2bua acts as a 4474/4474bis >>>>> authenticator and/or verifier. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Implications/considerations for each b2bua type (non-normative): >>>>>=20 >>>>> - How do the normative requirements in the previous sections = impact >>>>> the various b2bua types. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Normal security and privacy considerations. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 9 Dec 2015, at 12:50, Alissa Cooper wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On Dec 3, 2015, at 1:12 PM, Ben Campbell = wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On 2 Dec 2015, at 23:17, Alissa Cooper wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Could you articulate the reasons why someone would build a = B2BUA >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>> follows the recommendations in this draft? >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> B2BUAs used in deployments like the above mentioned scenarios = can >>>>>>>>> use the >>>>>>>>> recommendations in this draft. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Ok. What I am still missing is why this draft needs to be = published >>>>>>>> to make that happen. This is the type of SBC to which the = Section >>>>>>>> 3.1.1 guidance is directed. How does the behavior of existing >>>>>>>> media-latching SBCs differ from what 3.1.1 tells them to do? = And if >>>>>>>> this type of SBC implementation is the key target audience, >>>>>>>> doesn=C2=B9t that make the 3.1.2 guidance essentially no-ops? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Authors: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> After discussion on today's telechats, and some side discussions >>>>>>> with Alissa, I believe this question is the lynch-pin for making = any >>>>>>> progress. I advise people to work this out first before worrying >>>>>>> about the rest of the discussion: Can we articulate how we = expect >>>>>>> this draft will change implementer and/or operator behavior? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Obviously B2BUAs that exist for reasons that require = modification of >>>>>>> RTP/RTCP, or cleartext access to the encrypted bits of SRTP are = not >>>>>>> going to conform, and are therefore out of scope. The draft = doesn't >>>>>>> seem to concern itself with b2buas that are not in the media = path at >>>>>>> all. (Maybe it should, since there are plenty of purely >>>>>>> signaling-plane ways to break dtls-srtp?). >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> That leaves the question of b2buas in the media path that do not >>>>>>> require modification or cleartext access to protected bits in >>>>>>> srtp--effectively media-relays as described in 3.1.1 Do we = believe >>>>>>> people do not know how to build or use such devices without = breaking >>>>>>> dtls-srtp? Are people aware of such devices that break dtls-srtp >>>>>>> when they don't need to? Perhaps by misconfiguration, or because >>>>>>> they use SBCs designed for more invasive use cases? >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> As Ben says, I think this draft would add value if it could >>>>>> articulate the problem statement, including the kinds of B2BUAs = that >>>>>> cause the problem, and then articulate a solution that those = kinds of >>>>>> B2BUAs have a reasonable chance of implementing given what they = are >>>>>> otherwise designed to do. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Alissa >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Ben. >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> straw mailing list >>>>> straw@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/straw >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 From nobody Wed Mar 30 21:57:46 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: straw@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B173E12D95A for ; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 21:57:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: 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Thread-Topic: [straw] Alissa Cooper's Discuss on draft-ietf-straw-b2bua-dtls-srtp-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHRiwnWu8NZ8azPRUyaVygyoZCjaw== Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 04:57:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151201045818.23491.19134.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1D498CDA-C8B6-4215-A718-7C5302B5CF2D@cooperw.in> <01E4CF3B-6C31-4A97-8155-8DC06443A7C2@nostrum.com> <23C852C2-1B96-4739-91ED-8B4C0FF97279@cooperw.in> <8C7E62D2-E8A7-4094-92F4-28C17214A1B5@cooperw.in> In-Reply-To: <8C7E62D2-E8A7-4094-92F4-28C17214A1B5@cooperw.in> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.2.160219 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.196.105.57] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_003_D322AC2A56904rmohanrciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Ben Campbell , "christer.holmberg@ericsson.com" Subject: Re: [straw] Alissa 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