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From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
To: "suit@ietf.org" <suit@ietf.org>, teep <teep@ietf.org>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
CC: Matthias Waehlisch <m.waehlisch@fu-berlin.de>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/suit/9E_tGZ9tfA9X-8Cq3kYE5LeFSyk>
Subject: [Suit] Tutorial & Hackathon
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Hi all,

Based on feedback and room availability we have setup a Doodle poll with tw=
o dates for the combined tutorial/hackathon event in February 2020 covering=
 topics of SUIT, TEEP and RATS.

As mentioned earlier, the venue is in Berlin (Wilhelmstra=DFe 67, to be mor=
e precisely).

Here is the poll:
https://doodle.com/poll/2sbd6v6h3wzah39u

Please respond as soon as possible.

Ciao
Hannes & Matthias

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid=
ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p=
lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any=
 other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in =
any medium. Thank you.

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Based on feedback and room availability we have setu=
p a Doodle poll with two dates for the combined tutorial/hackathon event in=
 February 2020 covering topics of SUIT, TEEP and RATS.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">As mentioned earlier, the venue is in Berlin (Wil=
helmstra=DFe 67, to be more precisely).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Here is the poll: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://doodle.com/poll/2sbd6v6h3wzah39u"=
>https://doodle.com/poll/2sbd6v6h3wzah39u</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please respond as soon as possible. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ciao<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hannes &amp; Matthias<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid=
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lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any=
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 or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
</body>
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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2019 19:14:48 -0400
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Subject: [Suit] SUIT Architecture document review
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Hello,

I know I am late with a review, but since it has not gone to IETF last call
yet, I'd like to submit these comments.  I know another version is expected
soon, so some of these comments/nits may have been addressed already.

The document as a whole reads very well, thanks for all your work on it.  I
do hope it enjoys wide adoption.

Abstract:
I thought one of the goals was to update firmware for IoT, but also to
scale up to larger systems as well.  The abstract seems very specific to
constrained devices.  Should the language be adjusted or has the focus
changed?

Introduction:
If the scope does include larger devices, then this is a problem for them
as well for both security and inconsistency across platforms.  It's harder
than it needs to be and that's amplified when you think about IoT.

Section 2:
For the Firmware definition, is the last sentence referring to both
"firmware" and "image" as interchangeable or something else?  I think
adjusting the last couple of sentences may be helpful to some readers.

Section 3.2:
If not link, network, or transport layer security, what does this rely
upon?  If it is object-level security and I am assuming it is, please
state that explicitly possibly referring to where confidentiality
protection is specified.

Section 3.3:

Current text:
"The use of post-quantum secure signature mechanisms, such as hash-
   based signatures, should be explored."
Since this is the architecture document, if they are defined elsewhere, the
document should point to that rather than saying "should be explored".

Some other well received architecture documents provided pointers to the
related documents that filled out stated components of the architecture.
If the WG were to hold this to be published until other document were
complete, this could provide the same mapping between the requirements,
architecture, and implementation of the architecture with the various
specifications.

Section 3.6
I think this is the first time "fw" is used.  Maybe just spell out firmware
with a search and replace?

Section 3.11:
Typo in the following sentence:
   "TEEs may obtain TAs from different authors and those TAs may
   require personalization data, such as payment information, to be
   securely be conveyed to the TEE."
s/to be securely be conveyed/to be securely conveyed/

Section 4;
Typo in the following sentence:
   "The credential used to must be directly or indirectly
   related to the trust anchor installed at the device by the Trust
   Provisioning Authority."
s/The credential used to must/The credential used must/

Section 8
This says downloads can be large, so I think that's to accommodate more
than IoT, is that right and the abstract/intro can be updated?

The following sentence is readable, but super long:
   If the application image contains the firmware consumer
   functionality, as described above, then it is necessary that a
   working image is left on the device to ensure that the bootloader can
   roll back to a working firmware image to re-do the firmware download
   since the bootloader itself does not have enough functionality to
   fetch a firmware image plus manifest from a firmware server over the
   Internet.
Perhaps break it up?

Security considerations:
Should this mention the end-to-end encryption?  Is it provided at the
object level?

Also, if the intent is to scale above constrained devices, the text should
state that as this section also specifies IoT.

Thank you for all of your work on the document.  It's easy to read and
comprehensive.

Best regards,
Kathleen

--000000000000d6fbfa05946e577c
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello,<div><br></div><div>I know I am late with a review, =
but since it has not gone to IETF last call yet, I&#39;d like to submit the=
se comments.=C2=A0 I know another version is expected soon, so some of thes=
e comments/nits may have been addressed already.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br>=
</div><div>The document as a whole reads very well, thanks for all your wor=
k on it.=C2=A0 I do hope it enjoys wide adoption.</div><div><br></div><div>=
Abstract:</div><div>I thought one of the goals was to update firmware for I=
oT, but also to scale up to larger systems as well.=C2=A0 The abstract seem=
s very specific to constrained devices.=C2=A0 Should the language be adjust=
ed or has the focus changed?<br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div><div>Introduct=
ion:</div><div>If the scope does include larger devices, then this is a pro=
blem for them as well for both security and inconsistency across platforms.=
=C2=A0 It&#39;s harder than it needs to be and that&#39;s amplified when yo=
u think about IoT.</div><div><br></div><div>Section 2:</div><div>For the Fi=
rmware definition, is the last sentence referring=C2=A0to both &quot;firmwa=
re&quot; and &quot;image&quot; as interchangeable or something else?=C2=A0 =
I think adjusting the last couple of sentences may be helpful to some reade=
rs.</div><div><br></div><div>Section 3.2:</div><div>If not link, network, o=
r transport layer security, what does this rely upon?=C2=A0 If it is object=
-level security and I am assuming it is, please state=C2=A0that explicitly =
possibly referring to where confidentiality protection is specified.</div><=
div><br></div><div>Section 3.3:</div><div><br></div><div>Current text:</div=
><div>&quot;The use of post-quantum secure signature mechanisms, such as ha=
sh-</div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0based signatures, should be explored.&quot;</div><div=
>Since this is the architecture document, if they are defined elsewhere, th=
e document should point to that rather than saying &quot;should be explored=
&quot;.</div><div><br></div><div>Some other well received architecture docu=
ments provided pointers to the related documents that filled out stated com=
ponents of the architecture.=C2=A0 If the WG were to hold this to be publis=
hed until other document were complete, this could provide the same mapping=
 between the requirements, architecture, and implementation of the architec=
ture with the various specifications.</div><div><br></div><div>Section 3.6<=
/div><div>I think this is the first time &quot;fw&quot; is used.=C2=A0 Mayb=
e just spell out firmware with a search and replace?</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>Section 3.11:</div><div>Typo in the following sentence:</div><div>=C2=A0=
 =C2=A0&quot;TEEs may obtain TAs from different authors and those TAs may<b=
r>=C2=A0 =C2=A0require personalization data, such as payment information, t=
o be<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0securely be conveyed to the TEE.&quot;</div><div>s/to =
be securely be conveyed/to be securely conveyed/</div><div><br></div><div>S=
ection 4;</div><div>Typo in the following sentence:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
&quot;The credential used to must be directly or indirectly<br>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0related to the trust anchor installed at the device by the Trust<br>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0Provisioning Authority.&quot;</div><div>s/The credential used to =
must/The credential used must/</div><div><br></div><div>Section 8</div><div=
>This says downloads can be large, so I think that&#39;s to accommodate mor=
e than IoT, is that right and the abstract/intro can be updated?</div><div>=
<br></div><div>The following sentence is readable, but super long:</div><di=
v>=C2=A0 =C2=A0If the application image contains the firmware consumer<br>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0functionality, as described above, then it is necessary that a=
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0working image is left on the device to ensure that the boo=
tloader can<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0roll back to a working firmware image to re-do =
the firmware download<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0since the bootloader itself does not =
have enough functionality to<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0fetch a firmware image plus ma=
nifest from a firmware server over the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Internet.=C2=A0</div=
><div>Perhaps break it up?</div><div><br></div><div>Security considerations=
:</div><div>Should this mention the end-to-end encryption?=C2=A0 Is it prov=
ided at the object level?</div><div><br></div><div>Also, if the intent is t=
o scale above constrained devices, the text should state that as this secti=
on also specifies IoT.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for all of your w=
ork on the document.=C2=A0 It&#39;s easy to read and comprehensive.<br><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div>Best regards,</div><div>Kathleen</div></div></div>=
</div></div>

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From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
To: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, "suit@ietf.org" <suit@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Suit] SUIT Architecture document review
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From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
To: "suit@ietf.org" <suit@ietf.org>, teep <teep@ietf.org>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
CC: Matthias Waehlisch <m.waehlisch@fu-berlin.de>
Thread-Topic: Tutorial & Hackathon: 17th, 18th and 19th Feb. 2020
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/suit/S6dW2Kh8OdOZsUdA6wOXu84wO78>
Subject: [Suit] Tutorial & Hackathon: 17th, 18th and 19th Feb. 2020
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--_000_VI1PR08MB53607436087B7AACA1928ECBFA900VI1PR08MB5360eurp_
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Based on your feedback in the Doodle poll we have selected the 17th, 18th a=
nd 19th Feb. 2020.
Matthias made a room reservation and we will have to do some planning. Plea=
se put this date in your calendar.

Ciao
Hannes

From: Hannes Tschofenig
Sent: Donnerstag, 3. Oktober 2019 12:35
To: suit@ietf.org; teep <teep@ietf.org>; rats@ietf.org
Cc: Matthias Waehlisch <m.waehlisch@fu-berlin.de>
Subject: Tutorial & Hackathon

Hi all,

Based on feedback and room availability we have setup a Doodle poll with tw=
o dates for the combined tutorial/hackathon event in February 2020 covering=
 topics of SUIT, TEEP and RATS.

As mentioned earlier, the venue is in Berlin (Wilhelmstra=DFe 67, to be mor=
e precisely).

Here is the poll:
https://doodle.com/poll/2sbd6v6h3wzah39u

Please respond as soon as possible.

Ciao
Hannes & Matthias

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid=
ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p=
lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any=
 other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in =
any medium. Thank you.

--_000_VI1PR08MB53607436087B7AACA1928ECBFA900VI1PR08MB5360eurp_
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"vertical-align:baseline">Based on your feed=
back in the Doodle poll we have selected the 17th, 18th and 19th Feb. 2020.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"vertical-align:baseline">Matthias made a ro=
om reservation and we will have to do some planning. Please put this date i=
n your calendar.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ciao<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hannes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"DE">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"D=
E"> Hannes Tschofenig
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Donnerstag, 3. </span><span lang=3D"EN-US">Oktober 2019 12:35<=
br>
<b>To:</b> suit@ietf.org; teep &lt;teep@ietf.org&gt;; rats@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Matthias Waehlisch &lt;m.waehlisch@fu-berlin.de&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Tutorial &amp; Hackathon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Based on feedback and room availability we have setu=
p a Doodle poll with two dates for the combined tutorial/hackathon event in=
 February 2020 covering topics of SUIT, TEEP and RATS.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">As mentioned earlier, the venue is in Berlin (Wil=
helmstra=DFe 67, to be more precisely).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Here is the poll: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://doodle.com/poll/2sbd6v6h3wzah39u"=
>https://doodle.com/poll/2sbd6v6h3wzah39u</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please respond as soon as possible. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ciao<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hannes &amp; Matthias<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid=
ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p=
lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any=
 other person, use it for any purpose,
 or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
</body>
</html>

--_000_VI1PR08MB53607436087B7AACA1928ECBFA900VI1PR08MB5360eurp_--


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Subject: Re: [Suit] SUIT Architecture document review
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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 07:28:58 -0400
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To: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
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Subject: Re: [Suit] SUIT Architecture document review
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Hi Hannes,

Sent from my mobile device

> On Oct 16, 2019, at 5:14 AM, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>=
 wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Hi Kathleen,
> =20
> Thanks for the review.
> A few remarks below:
> =20
> Abstract:
> I thought one of the goals was to update firmware for IoT, but also to sca=
le up to larger systems as well.  The abstract seems very specific to constr=
ained devices.  Should the language be adjusted or has the focus changed?
> [Hannes] When you say =E2=80=9Clarger systems=E2=80=9D what do you mean? T=
here are Windows, Linux and mobile devices out there that already have a per=
fectly fine software update mechanism and we are not trying to replace it wi=
th this work. For those devices that run regular operating systems the light=
weight design of the software update mechanism is apparently less of a conce=
rn compared to the design of a firmware update mechanism for low end IoT dev=
ices, as you have witnessed in the discussions on this list. When you say =E2=
=80=9Clarge system=E2=80=9D are you then referring to a system that runs Win=
dows, Linux or something similar or do you have some other system in mind?

Yes, bios or other firmware updates across numerous platforms that may have m=
ethods that are secure, but not consistent could be interesting.  This is fo=
r larger than IoT, but not OS or software to your point as this is difficult=
 for enterprises that have to manage the diverse sets of systems using diffe=
rent processes.  It might include devices, appliances, servers, desktops, an=
d storage.

> =20
> Introduction:
> If the scope does include larger devices, then this is a problem for them a=
s well for both security and inconsistency across platforms.  It's harder th=
an it needs to be and that's amplified when you think about IoT.
> =20
> [Hannes] See above.
> =20
> Section 2:
> For the Firmware definition, is the last sentence referring to both "firmw=
are" and "image" as interchangeable or something else?  I think adjusting th=
e last couple of sentences may be helpful to some readers.
> =20
> [Hannes] Corrected the definition to refer to firmware image, firmware, an=
d image.
> =20
Thank you.

> Section 3.2:
> If not link, network, or transport layer security, what does this rely upo=
n?  If it is object-level security and I am assuming it is, please state tha=
t explicitly possibly referring to where confidentiality protection is speci=
fied.
> =20
> [Hannes] Clarified that we are talking about protecting the manifest and f=
irmware rather than the underling transport of them. Here is the new text I c=
ame up with:
> =20
> ------
> =20
> ## Friendly to broadcast delivery
> =20
> This architecture does not specify any specific broadcast protocol.
> However, given that broadcast may be desirable for some networks,
> updates must cause the least disruption possible both in metadata
> and firmware transmission.
> =20
> For an update to be broadcast friendly, it cannot rely on link
> layer, network layer, or transport layer security. A solution has
> to rely on security protection applied to the manifest and firmware image
> instead. In addition,
> the same manifest must be deliverable to many devices, both those
> to which it applies and those to which it does not, without a
> chance that the wrong device will accept the update. Considerations
> that apply to network broadcasts apply equally to the use of
> third-party content distribution networks for payload distribution.
> =20

That=E2=80=99s a little better, thank you.
> ------
> =20
> =20
> Section 3.3:
> =20
> Current text:
> "The use of post-quantum secure signature mechanisms, such as hash-
>    based signatures, should be explored."
> Since this is the architecture document, if they are defined elsewhere, th=
e document should point to that rather than saying "should be explored".
> =20
> [Hannes] I changed the text in the following way:
> =20
> ------
> =20
> ## Use state-of-the-art security mechanisms
> =20
> End-to-end security between the author and the device is shown in
> {{architecture}}.
> =20
> Authentication ensures that the device can cryptographically identify
> the author(s) creating firmware images and manifests. Authenticated
> identities may be used as input to the authorization process.
> =20
> Integrity protection ensures that no third party can modify the manifest
> or the firmware image.
> =20
> For confidentiality protection of the firmware image, it must be done in s=
uch a
> way that every intended recipient can decrypt it. The information
> that is encrypted individually for each device must maintain
> friendliness to Content Distribution Networks, bulk storage, and
> broadcast protocols.
> =20
> A manifest specification must support different cryptographic algorithms
> and algorithm extensibility. Because of the nature of
> unchangeable code in ROM for use with bootloaders the use of
> post-quantum secure signature mechanisms, such as hash-based
> signatures {{I-D.ietf-cose-hash-sig}}, are attractive because they
> maintain security in presence of quantum computers.
> =20
> A mandatory-to-implement set of algorithms has to be defined offering
> a key length of 112-bit symmetric key or security or more, as outlined
> in Section 20 of RFC 7925 {{RFC7925}}. This corresponds to a 233 bit
> ECC key or a 2048 bit RSA key.
> ------
Great, thank you.
> =20
> Some other well received architecture documents provided pointers to the r=
elated documents that filled out stated components of the architecture.  If t=
he WG were to hold this to be published until other document were complete, t=
his could provide the same mapping between the requirements, architecture, a=
nd implementation of the architecture with the various specifications.
> =20
> =20
> Section 3.6
> I think this is the first time "fw" is used.  Maybe just spell out firmwar=
e with a search and replace?
> =20
> [Hannes] Changed the figure where I abbreviated =E2=80=9CFirmware Consumer=
=E2=80=9D with =E2=80=9Cfw consumer=E2=80=9D.
Thank you.
> =20
> Section 3.11:
> Typo in the following sentence:
>    "TEEs may obtain TAs from different authors and those TAs may
>    require personalization data, such as payment information, to be
>    securely be conveyed to the TEE."
> s/to be securely be conveyed/to be securely conveyed/
> =20
> [Hannes] Fixed.
> =20
> Section 4;
> Typo in the following sentence:
>    "The credential used to must be directly or indirectly
>    related to the trust anchor installed at the device by the Trust
>    Provisioning Authority."
> s/The credential used to must/The credential used must/
> =20
> [Hannes] Fixed.
> =20
> Section 8
> This says downloads can be large, so I think that's to accommodate more th=
an IoT, is that right and the abstract/intro can be updated?
> =20
> [Hannes] I replaced the term =E2=80=9Clarge=E2=80=9D with the following ex=
planatory text:
> =20
> =E2=80=9C
> (*) Because firmware images are often multiple kilobytes, sometimes
> exceeding one hundred kilobytes, in size for low end IoT devices and even
> several megabytes large for IoT devices running full-fletched operating sy=
stems
> like Linux the protocol mechanism for retrieving these images needs
> to offer features like congestion control, flow control, fragmentation
> and reassembly, and mechanisms to resume interrupted or corrupted transfer=
s.
>  =E2=80=9C
> =20
> The point I was trying to get across is that you actually need to implemen=
t a number of
> transport protocol features to transfer a firmware image.

The explanation does improve that point, thank you.
> =20
> The following sentence is readable, but super long:
>    If the application image contains the firmware consumer
>    functionality, as described above, then it is necessary that a
>    working image is left on the device to ensure that the bootloader can
>    roll back to a working firmware image to re-do the firmware download
>    since the bootloader itself does not have enough functionality to
>    fetch a firmware image plus manifest from a firmware server over the
>    Internet.=20
> Perhaps break it up?
> =20
> [Hannes] Here is a try:
> =20
> =E2=80=9C
> If the application image contains the firmware consumer
> functionality, as described above, then it is necessary that a
> working image is left on the device. This allows the bootloader to
> roll back to a working firmware image to execute a firmware download
> if the bootloader itself does not have enough functionality to
> fetch a firmware image plus manifest from a firmware server over the
> Internet.  A multi-stage bootloader may soften this requirement at
> the expense of a more sophisticated boot process.
> =E2=80=9C

That=E2=80=99s better, thanks.
> =20
> =20
> Security considerations:
> Should this mention the end-to-end encryption?  Is it provided at the obje=
ct level?
> =20
> [Hannes] Encryption is now discussed in the requirements section, as expla=
ined in one of my earlier comments.
> =20

Thank you,=20
Kathleen=20
> Also, if the intent is to scale above constrained devices, the text should=
 state that as this section also specifies IoT.
> =20
> =20
> Thank you for all of your work on the document.  It's easy to read and com=
prehensive.
> =20
> Best regards,
> Kathleen
> =20
> =20
> Ciao
> Hannes
> =20
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confi=
dential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p=
lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any o=
ther person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any=
 medium. Thank you.

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Hi Hannes,<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr">Sent fro=
m my mobile device</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Oc=
t 16, 2019, at 5:14 AM, Hannes Tschofenig &lt;Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com&gt; w=
rote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=
=BB=BF

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Kathleen, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks for the review. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A few remarks below:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I thought one of the goals was to update firmware for=
 IoT, but also to scale up to larger systems as well.&nbsp; The abstract see=
ms very specific to constrained devices.&nbsp; Should the language be adjust=
ed or has the focus changed?<br clear=3D"all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Hannes] When you say =E2=80=9Clarger systems=E2=80=9D=
 what do you mean? There are Windows, Linux and mobile devices out there tha=
t already have a perfectly fine software update mechanism and we are not try=
ing to replace it with this work. For those devices
 that run regular operating systems the lightweight design of the software u=
pdate mechanism is apparently less of a concern compared to the design of a f=
irmware update mechanism for low end IoT devices, as you have witnessed in t=
he discussions on this list.
 When you say =E2=80=9Clarge system=E2=80=9D are you then referring to a sys=
tem that runs Windows, Linux or something similar or do you have some other s=
ystem in mind?
</p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Yes, bios or o=
ther firmware updates across numerous platforms that may have methods that a=
re secure, but not consistent could be interesting. &nbsp;This is for larger=
 than IoT, but not OS or software to your point as this is difficult for ent=
erprises that have to manage the diverse sets of systems using different pro=
cesses. &nbsp;It might include devices, appliances, servers, desktops, and s=
torage.<div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"Wor=
dSection1"><div><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Introduction:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If the scope does include larger devices, then this i=
s a problem for them as well for both security and inconsistency across plat=
forms.&nbsp; It's harder than it needs to be and that's amplified when you t=
hink about IoT.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Hannes] See above. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Section 2:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For the Firmware definition, is the last sentence ref=
erring&nbsp;to both "firmware" and "image" as interchangeable or something e=
lse?&nbsp; I think adjusting the last couple of sentences may be helpful to s=
ome readers.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Hannes] Corrected the definition to refer to firmwar=
e image, firmware, and image.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></=
blockquote>Thank you.</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><div><div><div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Section 3.2:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If not link, network, or transport layer security, wh=
at does this rely upon?&nbsp; If it is object-level security and I am assumi=
ng it is, please state&nbsp;that explicitly possibly referring to where conf=
identiality protection is specified.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Hannes] Clarified that we are talking about protecti=
ng the manifest and firmware rather than the underling transport of them. He=
re is the new text I came up with:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">## Friendly to broadcast delivery<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This architecture does not specify any specific broad=
cast protocol.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">However, given that broadcast may be desirable for so=
me networks,
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">updates must cause the least disruption possible both=
 in metadata
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and firmware transmission.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For an update to be broadcast friendly, it cannot rel=
y on link
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">layer, network layer, or transport layer security. A s=
olution has
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">to rely on security protection applied to the manifes=
t and firmware image
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">instead. In addition, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">the same manifest must be deliverable to many devices=
, both those
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">to which it applies and those to which it does not, w=
ithout a
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">chance that the wrong device will accept the update. C=
onsiderations
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">that apply to network broadcasts apply equally to the=
 use of
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">third-party content distribution networks for payload=
 distribution.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></=
blockquote><div><br></div>That=E2=80=99s a little better, thank you.<br><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><div><div=
><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Section 3.3:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Current text:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">"The use of post-quantum secure signature mechanisms,=
 such as hash-<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp;based signatures, should be explored."<o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since this is the architecture document, if they are d=
efined elsewhere, the document should point to that rather than saying "shou=
ld be explored".<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Hannes] I changed the text in the following way:<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">## Use state-of-the-art security mechanisms<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">End-to-end security between the author and the device=
 is shown in
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">{{architecture}}. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Authentication ensures that the device can cryptograp=
hically identify
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">the author(s) creating firmware images and manifests.=
 Authenticated
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">identities may be used as input to the authorization p=
rocess.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Integrity protection ensures that no third party can m=
odify the manifest
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">or the firmware image.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For confidentiality protection of the firmware image,=
 it must be done in such a
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">way that every intended recipient can decrypt it. The=
 information
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">that is encrypted individually for each device must m=
aintain
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">friendliness to Content Distribution Networks, bulk s=
torage, and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">broadcast protocols. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A manifest specification must support different crypt=
ographic algorithms<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and algorithm extensibility. Because of the nature of=
 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">unchangeable code in ROM for use with bootloaders the=
 use of
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">post-quantum secure signature mechanisms, such as has=
h-based<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">signatures {{I-D.ietf-cose-hash-sig}}, are attractive=
 because they
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">maintain security in presence of quantum computers. <=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A mandatory-to-implement set of algorithms has to be d=
efined offering
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">a key length of 112-bit symmetric key or security or m=
ore, as outlined
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">in Section 20 of RFC 7925 {{RFC7925}}. This correspon=
ds to a 233 bit
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">ECC key or a 2048 bit RSA key.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">------</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote>Great,=
 thank you.<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"Word=
Section1"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Some other well received architecture documents provi=
ded pointers to the related documents that filled out stated components of t=
he architecture.&nbsp; If the WG were to hold this to be published until oth=
er document were complete, this could
 provide the same mapping between the requirements, architecture, and implem=
entation of the architecture with the various specifications.<o:p></o:p></p>=

</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Section 3.6<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I think this is the first time "fw" is used.&nbsp; Ma=
ybe just spell out firmware with a search and replace?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Hannes] Changed the figure where I abbreviated =E2=80=
=9CFirmware Consumer=E2=80=9D with =E2=80=9Cfw consumer=E2=80=9D.</p></div><=
/div></div></div></blockquote>Thank you.<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Section 3.11:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Typo in the following sentence:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp;"TEEs may obtain TAs from different auth=
ors and those TAs may<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;require personalization data, such as payment information, to b=
e<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;securely be conveyed to the TEE."<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">s/to be securely be conveyed/to be securely conveyed/=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Hannes] Fixed. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Section 4;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Typo in the following sentence:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp;"The credential used to must be directly=
 or indirectly<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;related to the trust anchor installed at the device by the Trus=
t<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Provisioning Authority."<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">s/The credential used to must/The credential used mus=
t/<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Hannes] Fixed. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Section 8<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This says downloads can be large, so I think that's t=
o accommodate more than IoT, is that right and the abstract/intro can be upd=
ated?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Hannes] I replaced the term =E2=80=9Clarge=E2=80=9D w=
ith the following explanatory text:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=9C<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">(*) Because firmware images are often multiple kiloby=
tes, sometimes
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">exceeding one hundred kilobytes, in size for low end I=
oT devices and even
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">several megabytes large for IoT devices running full-=
fletched operating systems
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">like Linux the protocol mechanism for retrieving thes=
e images needs
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">to offer features like congestion control, flow contr=
ol, fragmentation
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and reassembly, and mechanisms to resume interrupted o=
r corrupted transfers.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;=E2=80=9C<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The point I was trying to get across is that you actu=
ally need to implement a number of
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">transport protocol features to transfer a firmware im=
age. <o:p>
</o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>The explanatio=
n does improve that point, thank you.<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><div><div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The following sentence is readable, but super long:<o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp;If the application image contains the fi=
rmware consumer<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;functionality, as described above, then it is necessary that a<=
br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;working image is left on the device to ensure that the bootload=
er can<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;roll back to a working firmware image to re-do the firmware dow=
nload<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;since the bootloader itself does not have enough functionality t=
o<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;fetch a firmware image plus manifest from a firmware server ove=
r the<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Internet.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Perhaps break it up?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Hannes] Here is a try:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=9C<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If the application image contains the firmware consum=
er<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">functionality, as described above, then it is necessa=
ry that a<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">working image is left on the device. This allows the b=
ootloader to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">roll back to a working firmware image to execute a fi=
rmware download<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">if the bootloader itself does not have enough functio=
nality to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">fetch a firmware image plus manifest from a firmware s=
erver over the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Internet.&nbsp; A multi-stage bootloader may soften t=
his requirement at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">the expense of a more sophisticated boot process.<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=9C</p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><di=
v><br></div>That=E2=80=99s better, thanks.<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Security considerations:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Should this mention the end-to-end encryption?&nbsp; I=
s it provided at the object level?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Hannes] Encryption is now discussed in the requireme=
nts section, as explained in one of my earlier comments.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockq=
uote><div><br></div>Thank you,&nbsp;</div><div>Kathleen&nbsp;</div><div><blo=
ckquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"WordSection1"><div><div=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Also, if the intent is to scale above constrained dev=
ices, the text should state that as this section also specifies IoT.<o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thank you for all of your work on the document.&nbsp;=
 It's easy to read and comprehensive.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Kathleen<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ciao<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hannes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
To: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: "suit@ietf.org" <suit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Suit] SUIT Architecture document review
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Subject: Re: [Suit] SUIT Architecture document review
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
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Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> wrote:
    > [Hannes] When you say =E2=80=9Clarger systems=E2=80=9D what do you me=
an? There are
    > Windows, Linux and mobile devices out there that already have a
    > perfectly fine software update mechanism and we are not trying to
    > replace it with this work. For those devices that run regular operati=
ng
    > systems the lightweight design of the software update mechanism is
    > apparently less of a concern compared to the design of a firmware
    > update mechanism for low end IoT devices, as you have witnessed in the
    > discussions on this list. When you say =E2=80=9Clarge system=E2=80=9D=
 are you then
    > referring to a system that runs Windows, Linux or something similar or
    > do you have some other system in mind?

I believe that it would be applicable to Things based upon things that look
the RPI, running Android IoT or OpenWRT.  While there are package systems, a
random assortment of packages is undesireable, and can not easily be attest=
ed
to.

This is what I think that Kathleen is talking about.


=2D-
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-




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From nobody Wed Oct 16 07:41:25 2019
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From: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
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Hi Micheal,
hi thread,

at Kathleen's keynote address in TCG, the "not new" notion that SUIT 
refers to (S)oftware was raised, which - to the audience - seemed to be 
in contradiction with the content being produced.

That said, in theory the SUIT manifest could be used to update basically 
things of any size - not only constrained nodes. But I agree with your 
point that this is just a "title" problem. There are solutions, such as 
package systems,  in place that would require a quite more complex and 
elaborate attestation infrastructure and that is not the scope SUIT is 
targeting, I think.

m2c: wrt to number of secrets and endorsements that would have to be 
maintained per device we also want to be as minimalist as we can be 
while remaining feasible, I think.

Viele Grüße,

Henk

On 16.10.19 16:04, Michael Richardson wrote:
> 
> Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> wrote:
>      > [Hannes] When you say “larger systems” what do you mean? There are
>      > Windows, Linux and mobile devices out there that already have a
>      > perfectly fine software update mechanism and we are not trying to
>      > replace it with this work. For those devices that run regular operating
>      > systems the lightweight design of the software update mechanism is
>      > apparently less of a concern compared to the design of a firmware
>      > update mechanism for low end IoT devices, as you have witnessed in the
>      > discussions on this list. When you say “large system” are you then
>      > referring to a system that runs Windows, Linux or something similar or
>      > do you have some other system in mind?
> 
> I believe that it would be applicable to Things based upon things that look
> the RPI, running Android IoT or OpenWRT.  While there are package systems, a
> random assortment of packages is undesireable, and can not easily be attested
> to.
> 
> This is what I think that Kathleen is talking about.
> 
> 
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
>   -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Suit mailing list
> Suit@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit
> 


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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 11:07:09 -0400
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To: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>,  "suit@ietf.org" <suit@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Suit] SUIT Architecture document review
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On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 10:41 AM Henk Birkholz <
henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de> wrote:

> Hi Micheal,
> hi thread,
>
> at Kathleen's keynote address in TCG, the "not new" notion that SUIT
> refers to (S)oftware was raised, which - to the audience - seemed to be
> in contradiction with the content being produced.
>

Yes, but just to be clear, I did say the group was focused on firmware, but
FUIT didn't sound good.

>
> That said, in theory the SUIT manifest could be used to update basically
> things of any size - not only constrained nodes. But I agree with your
> point that this is just a "title" problem. There are solutions, such as
> package systems,  in place that would require a quite more complex and
> elaborate attestation infrastructure and that is not the scope SUIT is
> targeting, I think.
>

Agreed, I am not asking for all types of updates.  Having consistency for
firmware and maybe bios updates for larger systems would be helpful to the
customer.  The same principles for secure updates are applied similarly
anyway across solutions.  The architecture document is a framing one, which
is why I made the comment.

Best regards,
Kathleen


> m2c: wrt to number of secrets and endorsements that would have to be
> maintained per device we also want to be as minimalist as we can be
> while remaining feasible, I think.
>
> Viele Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe,
>
> Henk
>
> On 16.10.19 16:04, Michael Richardson wrote:
> >
> > Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> wrote:
> >      > [Hannes] When you say =E2=80=9Clarger systems=E2=80=9D what do y=
ou mean? There are
> >      > Windows, Linux and mobile devices out there that already have a
> >      > perfectly fine software update mechanism and we are not trying t=
o
> >      > replace it with this work. For those devices that run regular
> operating
> >      > systems the lightweight design of the software update mechanism =
is
> >      > apparently less of a concern compared to the design of a firmwar=
e
> >      > update mechanism for low end IoT devices, as you have witnessed
> in the
> >      > discussions on this list. When you say =E2=80=9Clarge system=E2=
=80=9D are you then
> >      > referring to a system that runs Windows, Linux or something
> similar or
> >      > do you have some other system in mind?
> >
> > I believe that it would be applicable to Things based upon things that
> look
> > the RPI, running Android IoT or OpenWRT.  While there are package
> systems, a
> > random assortment of packages is undesireable, and can not easily be
> attested
> > to.
> >
> > This is what I think that Kathleen is talking about.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
> >   -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Suit mailing list
> > Suit@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit
> >
>


--=20

Best regards,
Kathleen

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 10:41 AM Henk=
 Birkholz &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de">henk.birkh=
olz@sit.fraunhofer.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex">Hi Micheal,<br>
hi thread,<br>
<br>
at Kathleen&#39;s keynote address in TCG, the &quot;not new&quot; notion th=
at SUIT <br>
refers to (S)oftware was raised, which - to the audience - seemed to be <br=
>
in contradiction with the content being produced.<br></blockquote><div><br>=
</div><div>Yes, but just to be clear, I did say the group was focused on fi=
rmware, but FUIT didn&#39;t sound good.=C2=A0 =C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
That said, in theory the SUIT manifest could be used to update basically <b=
r>
things of any size - not only constrained nodes. But I agree with your <br>
point that this is just a &quot;title&quot; problem. There are solutions, s=
uch as <br>
package systems,=C2=A0 in place that would require a quite more complex and=
 <br>
elaborate attestation infrastructure and that is not the scope SUIT is <br>
targeting, I think.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Agreed, I am not as=
king for all types of updates.=C2=A0 Having consistency for firmware and ma=
ybe bios updates for larger systems would be helpful to the customer.=C2=A0=
 The same principles for secure updates are applied similarly anyway across=
 solutions.=C2=A0 The architecture document is a framing one, which is why =
I made the comment.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div=
><div>Kathleen</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">
<br>
m2c: wrt to number of secrets and endorsements that would have to be <br>
maintained per device we also want to be as minimalist as we can be <br>
while remaining feasible, I think.<br>
<br>
Viele Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe,<br>
<br>
Henk<br>
<br>
On 16.10.19 16:04, Michael Richardson wrote:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Hannes Tschofenig &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com" tar=
get=3D"_blank">Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; [Hannes] When you say =E2=80=9Clarger systems=
=E2=80=9D what do you mean? There are<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Windows, Linux and mobile devices out there t=
hat already have a<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; perfectly fine software update mechanism and =
we are not trying to<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; replace it with this work. For those devices =
that run regular operating<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; systems the lightweight design of the softwar=
e update mechanism is<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; apparently less of a concern compared to the =
design of a firmware<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; update mechanism for low end IoT devices, as =
you have witnessed in the<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; discussions on this list. When you say =E2=80=
=9Clarge system=E2=80=9D are you then<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; referring to a system that runs Windows, Linu=
x or something similar or<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; do you have some other system in mind?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I believe that it would be applicable to Things based upon things that=
 look<br>
&gt; the RPI, running Android IoT or OpenWRT.=C2=A0 While there are package=
 systems, a<br>
&gt; random assortment of packages is undesireable, and can not easily be a=
ttested<br>
&gt; to.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; This is what I think that Kathleen is talking about.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Michael Richardson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mcr%2BIETF@sandelman.ca" targ=
et=3D"_blank">mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca</a>&gt;, Sandelman Software Works<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0-=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Suit mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Suit@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Suit@ietf.org</a><b=
r>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit</a><br>
&gt; <br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div>Best regards,</div><di=
v>Kathleen</div></div></div></div>

--0000000000009d0eef0595087600--


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Comments: In-reply-to Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de> message dated "Wed, 16 Oct 2019 16:41:04 +0200."
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain


Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de> wrote:
    > That said, in theory the SUIT manifest could be used to update basically
    > things of any size - not only constrained nodes. But I agree with your point
    > that this is just a "title" problem. There are solutions, such as package
    > systems,  in place that would require a quite more complex and elaborate
    > attestation infrastructure and that is not the scope SUIT is targeting, I
    > think.

An Android IoT device is effectively an RPI running Android code.
Yes, it has a Linux kernel and file system, and yes, it can load "apps", but
in practice, one would always want to replace the entire system as a unit.

A Mozilla IoT device is also an RPI running Raspbian, with nodejs running
the application code.  It has apt for packaging, etc. and that's useful
during development, but shipping that would be dumb.  Ship a signed file
system image.

Just remember that RPIs are as big and powerful as the laptop you had ten
years ago.

    > m2c: wrt to number of secrets and endorsements that would have to be
    > maintained per device we also want to be as minimalist as we can be while
    > remaining feasible, I think.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-

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From nobody Wed Oct 16 08:58:10 2019
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From: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
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Subject: Re: [Suit] SUIT Architecture document review
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Hi Michael,
hi list,

if you treat a complex composite, such as an OS utilizing a package 
system, as a binary blob, the manifest can be used to update that. That 
is correct :-)

Viele Grüße,

Henk

On 16.10.19 17:48, Michael Richardson wrote:
> 
> Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de> wrote:
>      > That said, in theory the SUIT manifest could be used to update basically
>      > things of any size - not only constrained nodes. But I agree with your point
>      > that this is just a "title" problem. There are solutions, such as package
>      > systems,  in place that would require a quite more complex and elaborate
>      > attestation infrastructure and that is not the scope SUIT is targeting, I
>      > think.
> 
> An Android IoT device is effectively an RPI running Android code.
> Yes, it has a Linux kernel and file system, and yes, it can load "apps", but
> in practice, one would always want to replace the entire system as a unit.
> 
> A Mozilla IoT device is also an RPI running Raspbian, with nodejs running
> the application code.  It has apt for packaging, etc. and that's useful
> during development, but shipping that would be dumb.  Ship a signed file
> system image.
> 
> Just remember that RPIs are as big and powerful as the laptop you had ten
> years ago.
> 
>      > m2c: wrt to number of secrets and endorsements that would have to be
>      > maintained per device we also want to be as minimalist as we can be while
>      > remaining feasible, I think.
> 
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
>   -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-
> 


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Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2019 11:47:49 +0200
To: suit <suit@ietf.org>, teep@ietf.org, din@irtf.org, rats@ietf.org, lake@ietf.org
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Subject: [Suit] [Cbor] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF106: DRAFT AGENDA
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Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the DRAFT AGENDA
for IETF106.  Remember that there is still quite some potential for
changes.

Conflicts that meet the eye:
LAKE/SUIT (already noted by Russ), BOF on top (thing security): TMRID.
ACE/RATS are also both security technologies that impact IoT.
COSE is a technology that might be relevant for WPACK.

All times are SGT (Singapore Time) =3D=3D UTC + 8 hours (=3D=3D China =
time).
Singapore doesn't obey the daylight savings myth.
(Pure UTC times at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc are
useful for those who want to listen from remote.)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

FRIDAY, November 15, 2019
-- T2TRG/W3C WoT Workshop @ NUSS (https://is.gd/XWSfi8)

SATURDAY, November 16, 2019
0830-2200  IETF Hackathon - Moor/Morrison

SUNDAY, November 17, 2019
0830-1600  IETF Hackathon - Moor/Morrison
1700-1900  Welcome Reception - Fairmont Ballroom Foyer
1800-2000  Hot RFC Lightning Talks -- Padang

MONDAY, November 18, 2019

1000-1200  Morning Session I
Collyer 	ART	dispatch	Dispatch WG - Joint with ARTAREA
Sophia  	IRTF	icnrg	Information-Centric Networking
VIP A   	SEC ***	rats	Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG

1330-1530  Afternoon Session I
VIP A   	INT	dnssd	Extensions for Scalable DNS Service =
Discovery WG - Joint with HOMENET
VIP A   	INT	homenet	Home Networking WG - Joint with DNSSD
Hullet  	INT ***	lpwan	IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks =
WG
Olivia  	IRTF***	dinrg	Decentralized Internet Infrastructure
Canning 	IRTF	pearg	Privacy Enhancements and Assessments =
Research Group
Padang  	SEC	txauth	Transactional Authorization and =
Delegation BOF
Sophia  	TSV	tsvwg	Transport Area Working Group WG

1550-1750  Afternoon Session II
Collyer 	ART	abcd	Application Behavior Considering DNS BOF
Padang  	IRTF	irtfopen	IRTF Open Meeting
Sophia  	OPS	v6ops	IPv6 Operations WG
Orchard 	RTG ***	roll	Routing Over Low power and Lossy =
networks WG
Canning 	SEC	mls	Messaging Layer Security WG

1810-1910  Afternoon Session III
Canning 	INT ***	lwig	Light-Weight Implementation Guidance WG
Olivia  	TSV	rmcat	RTP Media Congestion Avoidance =
Techniques WG

TUESDAY, November 19, 2019

1000-1200  Morning Session I
Hullet  	RTG ***	roll	Routing Over Low power and Lossy =
networks WG
Olivia  	SEC ***	teep	Trusted Execution Environment =
Provisioning WG
Padang  	TSV	quic	QUIC WG

1330-1500  Afternoon Session I
VIP A   	INT	tmrid	Trustworthy Multipurpose Remote ID BOF
Padang  	IRTF	maprg	Measurement and Analysis for Protocols
Canning 	SEC ***	lake	Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange =
WG
Olivia  	SEC ***	suit	Software Updates for Internet of Things =
WG

1520-1650  Afternoon Session II
Canning 	INT	intarea	Internet Area Working Group WG
Olivia  	SEC ***	ace	Authentication and Authorization for =
Constrained Environments WG
VIP A   	SEC ***	rats	Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG
Hullet  	TSV	taps	Transport Services WG

1710-1840  Afternoon Session III
Hullet  	IRTF	qirg	Quantum Internet Proposed Research Group
Sophia  	OPS	anima	Autonomic Networking Integrated Model =
and Approach WG
Orchard 	RTG	babel	Babel routing protocol WG
Padang  	SEC	secdispatch	Security Dispatch WG

WEDNESDAY, November 20, 2019

1000-1200  Morning Session I
Collyer 	RTG	raw	Reliable and Available Wireless BOF
Sophia  	SEC ***	teep	Trusted Execution Environment =
Provisioning WG
Padang  	TSV	quic	QUIC WG

1330-1500  Afternoon Session I
Canning 	ART	webtrans	WebTransport BOF
Sophia  	INT ***	6lo	IPv6 over Networks of =
Resource-constrained Nodes WG
Collyer 	IRTF	cfrg	Crypto Forum
Olivia  	SEC	oauth	Web Authorization Protocol WG

1520-1650  Afternoon Session II
Orchard 	ART ***	core	Constrained RESTful Environments WG
Hullet  	OPS	anima	Autonomic Networking Integrated Model =
and Approach WG
Collyer 	SEC	tls	Transport Layer Security WG
Sophia  	TSV	tsvarea	Transport Area Open Meeting

THURSDAY, November 21, 2019

1000-1200  Morning Session I
Sophia  	IRTF***	t2trg	Thing-to-Thing
VIP A   	RTG	bier	Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG
Padang  	SEC	tls	Transport Layer Security WG
Collyer 	TSV	tsvwg	Transport Area Working Group WG

1330-1530  Afternoon Session I
Collyer 	ART	httpbis	Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG
Sophia  	INT	6man	IPv6 Maintenance WG
Olivia  	RTG	rift	Routing In Fat Trees WG
Canning 	SEC	saag	Security Area Open Meeting

1550-1720  Afternoon Session II
Padang  	ART	wpack	Web Packaging BOF
Canning 	RTG	detnet	Deterministic Networking WG
Sophia  	SEC ***	cose	CBOR Object Signing and Encryption WG
Hullet  	SEC	oauth	Web Authorization Protocol WG

1740-1840  Afternoon Session III
Olivia  	ART ***	cbor	Concise Binary Object Representation =
Maintenance and Extensions WG
Sophia  	GEN	git	GitHub Integration and Tooling WG
Padang  	INT	6man	IPv6 Maintenance WG
Canning 	RTG	detnet	Deterministic Networking WG

FRIDAY, November 22, 2019

1000-1200  Morning Session I
Collyer 	ART	httpbis	Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG
Hullet  	INT ***	6tisch	IPv6 over the TSCH mode of IEEE =
802.15.4e WG
Sophia  	IRTF	coinrg	Computing in the Network Proposed =
Research Group
Olivia  	SEC	mathmesh	MatheMatical Mesh BOF

1220-1350  Morning Session II
Hullet  	ART ***	core	Constrained RESTful Environments WG
Sophia  	IRTF	panrg	Path Aware Networking RG
Olivia  	SEC	acme	Automated Certificate Management =
Environment WG

_______________________________________________
CBOR mailing list
CBOR@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor


From nobody Mon Oct 21 00:13:15 2019
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Subject: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-architecture-07.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Software Updates for Internet of Things WG of the IETF.

        Title           : A Firmware Update Architecture for Internet of Things Devices
        Authors         : Brendan Moran
                          Milosch Meriac
                          Hannes Tschofenig
                          David Brown
	Filename        : draft-ietf-suit-architecture-07.txt
	Pages           : 28
	Date            : 2019-10-20

Abstract:
   Vulnerabilities with Internet of Things (IoT) devices have raised the
   need for a solid and secure firmware update mechanism that is also
   suitable for constrained devices.  Incorporating such update
   mechanism to fix vulnerabilities, to update configuration settings as
   well as adding new functionality is recommended by security experts.

   This document lists requirements and describes an architecture for a
   firmware update mechanism suitable for IoT devices.  The architecture
   is agnostic to the transport of the firmware images and associated
   meta-data.

   This version of the document assumes asymmetric cryptography and a
   public key infrastructure.  Future versions may also describe a
   symmetric key approach for very constrained devices.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-architecture/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-architecture-07
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-suit-architecture-07

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-suit-architecture-07


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Brendan Moran <Brendan.Moran@arm.com>
To: Dave Thaler <dthaler=40microsoft.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
CC: suit <suit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Suit] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-suit-information-model-03
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Subject: Re: [Suit] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-suit-information-model-03
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From nobody Mon Oct 21 09:06:54 2019
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Subject: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Software Updates for Internet of Things WG of the IETF.

        Title           : SUIT CBOR manifest serialisation format
        Authors         : Brendan Moran
                          Hannes Tschofenig
                          Henk Birkholz
	Filename        : draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00.txt
	Pages           : 68
	Date            : 2019-10-21

Abstract:
   This specification describes the format of a manifest.  A manifest is
   a bundle of metadata about the firmware for an IoT device, where to
   find the firmware, the devices to which it applies, and cryptographic
   information protecting the manifest.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-manifest/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Fri Oct 25 02:32:28 2019
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From: Brendan Moran <Brendan.Moran@arm.com>
To: suit <suit@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Suit] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-suit-information-model-03
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Subject: Re: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00.txt
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-----Original Message-----
From: Suit <suit-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 18:07
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: suit@ietf.org
Subject: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
This draft is a work item of the Software Updates for Internet of Things WG=
 of the IETF.

        Title           : SUIT CBOR manifest serialisation format
        Authors         : Brendan Moran
                          Hannes Tschofenig
                          Henk Birkholz
	Filename        : draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00.txt
	Pages           : 68
	Date            : 2019-10-21

Abstract:
   This specification describes the format of a manifest.  A manifest is
   a bundle of metadata about the firmware for an IoT device, where to
   find the firmware, the devices to which it applies, and cryptographic
   information protecting the manifest.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-manifest/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit


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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/suit/VQott4PhPVfbAJPxg3E6OQV6iwU>
Subject: Re: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00.txt
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draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00 seems to be based on draft-moran-suit-manifest-=
04, not the latest draft-moran-suit-manifest-05.

Sorry about the double post.

=D8yvind

-----Original Message-----
From: Suit <suit-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of R=F8nningstad, =D8yvind
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2019 13:16
To: suit@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00.txt



-----Original Message-----
From: Suit <suit-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2019 18:07
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: suit@ietf.org
Subject: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
This draft is a work item of the Software Updates for Internet of Things WG=
 of the IETF.

        Title           : SUIT CBOR manifest serialisation format
        Authors         : Brendan Moran
                          Hannes Tschofenig
                          Henk Birkholz
	Filename        : draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00.txt
	Pages           : 68
	Date            : 2019-10-21

Abstract:
   This specification describes the format of a manifest.  A manifest is
   a bundle of metadata about the firmware for an IoT device, where to
   find the firmware, the devices to which it applies, and cryptographic
   information protecting the manifest.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-manifest/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit

_______________________________________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit


From nobody Fri Oct 25 14:14:38 2019
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Subject: [Suit] suit - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 106
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Dear Russ Housley,

The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled.
Below is the scheduled session information followed by
the original request. 


    suit Session 1 (1:30 requested)
    Tuesday, 19 November 2019, Afternoon Session I 1330-1500
    Room Name: Sophia size: 200
    ---------------------------------------------


iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/sessions/suit.ics

Request Information:


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Software Updates for Internet of Things
Area Name: Security Area
Session Requester: Russ Housley

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  1.5 Hours
Number of Attendees: 80
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 Chair Conflict: ipwave lamps stir teep ipsecme mile rats

 Key Participant Conflict: oauth secdispatch saag sipbrandy tls mls acme cfrg sacm


People who must be present:
  Russ Housley
  Dave Thaler
  Roman Danyliw
  Hannes Tschofenig
  David Waltermire
  Henk Birkholz
  Brendan Moran
  Milosch Meriac
  David Brown

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------


From nobody Fri Oct 25 14:47:27 2019
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To: suit@ietf.org, teep@ietf.org, din@irtf.org, rats@ietf.org, lake@ietf.org
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Subject: [Suit] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF106: FINAL AGENDA
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Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the FINAL AGENDA
for IETF106.  Remember that, occasionally, futher agenda changes do
happen.

Quite a bit has been moved around from the draft agenda.
LAKE no longer conflicts with SUIT, TMRID is now on top of ROLL and
TEEP which is maybe a bit less of a problem for most.
ACE/RATS still conflict (and the other RATS meeting has moved from
Monday to Friday on top of COINRG, but you can do this RATS thing
without me, can you?).
WPACK no longer conflicts with COSE (but now does with LAKE, which
again probably just is a personal problem), LAKE/ANIMA is a technology
and a potential user again.

All times are SGT (Singapore Time) =3D=3D UTC + 8 hours (=3D=3D China =
time).
Singapore doesn't obey the daylight savings myth.
(Pure UTC times at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc are
useful for those who want to listen from remote.)

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

FRIDAY, November 15, 2019
-- T2TRG/W3C WoT Workshop @ NUSS (https://is.gd/XWSfi8)

SATURDAY, November 16, 2019
0830-2200  IETF Hackathon - Moor/Morrison

SUNDAY, November 17, 2019
0830-1600  IETF Hackathon - Moor/Morrison
1700-1900  Welcome Reception - Fairmont Ballroom Foyer
1800-2000  Hot RFC Lightning Talks -- Padang

MONDAY, November 18, 2019

1000-1200  Morning Session I
Sophia  	ART	dispatch	Dispatch WG - Joint with ARTAREA
Olivia  	IRTF	icnrg	Information-Centric Networking
Collyer 	SEC	mathmesh	MatheMatical Mesh BOF

1330-1530  Afternoon Session I
VIP A   	INT	dnssd	Extensions for Scalable DNS Service =
Discovery WG - Joint with HOMENET
VIP A   	INT	homenet	Home Networking WG - Joint with DNSSD
Olivia  	IRTF***	dinrg	Decentralized Internet Infrastructure
Canning 	IRTF	pearg	Privacy Enhancements and Assessments =
Research Group
Padang  	SEC	txauth	Transactional Authorization and =
Delegation BOF
Sophia  	TSV	tsvwg	Transport Area Working Group WG

1550-1750  Afternoon Session II
Canning 	ART	httpbis	Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG
Padang  	IRTF	irtfopen	IRTF Open Meeting
Collyer 	OPS	v6ops	IPv6 Operations WG
Orchard 	RTG ***	roll	Routing Over Low power and Lossy =
networks WG

1810-1910  Afternoon Session III
Olivia  	INT ***	lwig	Light-Weight Implementation Guidance WG
Padang  	IRTF	maprg	Measurement and Analysis for Protocols

TUESDAY, November 19, 2019

1000-1200  Morning Session I
VIP A   	INT	tmrid	Trustworthy Multipurpose Remote ID BOF
Olivia  	RTG ***	roll	Routing Over Low power and Lossy =
networks WG
Sophia  	SEC ***	teep	Trusted Execution Environment =
Provisioning WG
Padang  	TSV	quic	QUIC WG

1330-1500  Afternoon Session I
Padang  	ART	abcd	Application Behavior Considering DNS BOF
VIP A   	RTG	babel	Babel routing protocol WG
Sophia  	SEC ***	suit	Software Updates for Internet of Things =
WG
Hullet  	TSV	rmcat	RTP Media Congestion Avoidance =
Techniques WG

1520-1650  Afternoon Session II
Sophia  	GEN	git	GitHub Integration and Tooling WG
Collyer 	INT ***	lpwan	IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks =
WG
Olivia  	SEC ***	ace	Authentication and Authorization for =
Constrained Environments WG
VIP A   	SEC ***	rats	Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG
Hullet  	TSV	taps	Transport Services WG

1710-1840  Afternoon Session III
Hullet  	IRTF	qirg	Quantum Internet Proposed Research Group
Sophia  	OPS	anima	Autonomic Networking Integrated Model =
and Approach WG
Padang  	SEC	secdispatch	Security Dispatch WG

WEDNESDAY, November 20, 2019

1000-1200  Morning Session I
Sophia  	ART ***	core	Constrained RESTful Environments WG
Canning 	RTG	raw	Reliable and Available Wireless BOF
Olivia  	SEC ***	teep	Trusted Execution Environment =
Provisioning WG
Padang  	TSV	quic	QUIC WG

1330-1500  Afternoon Session I
Collyer 	ART	webtrans	WebTransport BOF
Sophia  	INT ***	6lo	IPv6 over Networks of =
Resource-constrained Nodes WG
Canning 	IRTF	cfrg	Crypto Forum
Olivia  	SEC	oauth	Web Authorization Protocol WG

1520-1650  Afternoon Session II
Collyer 	ART	wpack	Web Packaging BOF
Hullet  	OPS	anima	Autonomic Networking Integrated Model =
and Approach WG
Sophia  	SEC ***	lake	Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange =
WG

1710-1940  IETF Plenary - Canning/Padang

THURSDAY, November 21, 2019

1000-1200  Morning Session I
Sophia  	IRTF***	t2trg	Thing-to-Thing
Orchard 	RTG	bier	Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG
Padang  	SEC	tls	Transport Layer Security WG
Canning 	TSV	tsvwg	Transport Area Working Group WG

1330-1530  Afternoon Session I
Collyer 	ART	httpbis	Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG
Sophia  	INT	6man	IPv6 Maintenance WG
Olivia  	RTG	rift	Routing In Fat Trees WG
Canning 	SEC	saag	Security Area Open Meeting

1550-1720  Afternoon Session II
Padang  	INT	intarea	Internet Area Working Group WG
Collyer 	RTG	detnet	Deterministic Networking WG
Sophia  	SEC ***	cose	CBOR Object Signing and Encryption WG
Hullet  	SEC	oauth	Web Authorization Protocol WG

1740-1840  Afternoon Session III
Hullet  	ART ***	cbor	Concise Binary Object Representation =
Maintenance and Extensions WG
Sophia  	INT	6man	IPv6 Maintenance WG
Collyer 	RTG	detnet	Deterministic Networking WG
Canning 	SEC	tls	Transport Layer Security WG
Padang  	TSV	tsvarea	Transport Area Open Meeting

FRIDAY, November 22, 2019

1000-1200  Morning Session I
Hullet  	INT ***	6tisch	IPv6 over the TSCH mode of IEEE =
802.15.4e WG
Sophia  	IRTF	coinrg	Computing in the Network Proposed =
Research Group
Canning 	SEC	mls	Messaging Layer Security WG
Orchard 	SEC ***	rats	Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG

1220-1350  Morning Session II
Hullet  	ART ***	core	Constrained RESTful Environments WG
Sophia  	IRTF	panrg	Path Aware Networking RG
Olivia  	SEC	acme	Automated Certificate Management =
Environment WG


_______________________________________________
CBOR mailing list
CBOR@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cbor


From nobody Mon Oct 28 06:22:00 2019
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Subject: Re: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00.txt
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Thread-Topic: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00.txt
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/suit/GuinK0Wg91fWYLX8RJmknKphie0>
Subject: Re: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00.txt
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Thread-Topic: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-00.txt
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From: Brendan Moran <Brendan.Moran@arm.com>
To: "suit@ietf.org" <suit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-01 now in GitHub.
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2019 09:31:04 +0000
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Subject: [Suit] draft-ietf-suit-manifest-01 now in GitHub.
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From nobody Tue Oct 29 06:03:29 2019
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Subject: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Software Updates for Internet of Things WG of the IETF.

        Title           : SUIT CBOR manifest serialisation format
        Authors         : Brendan Moran
                          Hannes Tschofenig
                          Henk Birkholz
	Filename        : draft-ietf-suit-manifest-01.txt
	Pages           : 76
	Date            : 2019-10-28

Abstract:
   This specification describes the format of a manifest.  A manifest is
   a bundle of metadata about the firmware for an IoT device, where to
   find the firmware, the devices to which it applies, and cryptographic
   information protecting the manifest.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-manifest/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-suit-manifest-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Wed Oct 30 06:39:11 2019
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Subject: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-information-model-04.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Software Updates for Internet of Things WG of the IETF.

        Title           : An Information Model for Firmware Updates in IoT Devices
        Authors         : Brendan Moran
                          Hannes Tschofenig
                          Henk Birkholz
	Filename        : draft-ietf-suit-information-model-04.txt
	Pages           : 39
	Date            : 2019-10-30

Abstract:
   Vulnerabilities with Internet of Things (IoT) devices have raised the
   need for a solid and secure firmware update mechanism that is also
   suitable for constrained devices.  Ensuring that devices function and
   remain secure over their service life requires such an update
   mechanism to fix vulnerabilities, to update configuration settings,
   as well as adding new functionality

   One component of such a firmware update is a concise and machine-
   processable meta-data document, or manifest, that describes the
   firmware image(s) and offers appropriate protection.  This document
   describes the information that must be present in the manifest.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-information-model/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-information-model-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-suit-information-model-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-suit-information-model-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Thu Oct 31 07:16:41 2019
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From: Brendan Moran <Brendan.Moran@arm.com>
To: suit <suit@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Proposal for changes to draft-ietf-suit-manifest
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Subject: [Suit] Proposal for changes to draft-ietf-suit-manifest
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