From nobody Mon Jun 1 04:26:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9BC03A0F7A; Mon, 1 Jun 2020 04:26:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: suit@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.1.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: suit@ietf.org Message-ID: <159101076380.24492.7208591215453662740@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2020 04:26:03 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-information-model-06.txt X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2020 11:26:04 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Software Updates for Internet of Things WG of the IETF. Title : An Information Model for Firmware Updates in IoT Devices Authors : Brendan Moran Hannes Tschofenig Henk Birkholz Filename : draft-ietf-suit-information-model-06.txt Pages : 40 Date : 2020-06-01 Abstract: Vulnerabilities with Internet of Things (IoT) devices have raised the need for a solid and secure firmware update mechanism that is also suitable for constrained devices. Ensuring that devices function and remain secure over their service life requires such an update mechanism to fix vulnerabilities, to update configuration settings, as well as adding new functionality One component of such a firmware update is a concise and machine- processable meta-data document, or manifest, that describes the firmware image(s) and offers appropriate protection. This document describes the information that must be present in the manifest. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-information-model/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-information-model-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-suit-information-model-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-suit-information-model-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Ip=[63.35.35.123]; Helo=[64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR0802MB2311 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] draft-ietf-suit-information-model-06 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2020 11:34:27 -0000 --_000_AM0PR08MB3716FCEC4C724F82D8485DA4FA8A0AM0PR08MB3716eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I just submitted version -06 of the information model draft based on a shep= herd review by Dave Thaler. The main changes are: * Changed the status of the document to "Informational". This was the i= ntended status for this document and it incorrectly said "Standards Track". * Changed the boilerplate template (because this was also wrong due to = a copy-and-paste mistake). * Minor editorial changes * Removed references to the mailing list Here is the doc: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-information-model-06 Here is the diff: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-suit-information-model-06.= txt Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. --_000_AM0PR08MB3716FCEC4C724F82D8485DA4FA8A0AM0PR08MB3716eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

I just submitted version -06 of the information mode= l draft based on a shepherd review by Dave Thaler.

 

The main changes are:

 

  • Changed the status of the document to “Informational”. This was= the intended status for this document and it incorrectly said “Stand= ards Track”.
  • Changed the boilerplate template (because this was also wrong due to a copy= -and-paste mistake).
  • Minor editorial changes
  • Removed references to the mailing list

 

Here is the doc:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-inform= ation-model-06

 

Here is the diff:

https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2= =3Ddraft-ietf-suit-information-model-06.txt

 

Ciao

Hannes

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. --_000_AM0PR08MB3716FCEC4C724F82D8485DA4FA8A0AM0PR08MB3716eurp_-- From nobody Mon Jun 1 14:47:11 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A0A73A15B6; Mon, 1 Jun 2020 14:47:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: rdd@cert.org, suit@ietf.org, suit-chairs@ietf.org, housley@vigilsec.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.1.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <159104802908.28191.8282598012972393830@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2020 14:47:09 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] suit - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 108 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2020 21:47:09 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Russ Housley, a Chair of the suit working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Software Updates for Internet of Things Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Russ Housley Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 100 Minutes Number of Attendees: 80 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: ipwave lamps stir teep ipsecme mile rats sacm Key Participant Conflict: oauth secdispatch saag tls mls acme cfrg ace People who must be present: Russ Housley Dave Thaler Roman Danyliw Hannes Tschofenig David Waltermire Henk Birkholz Brendan Moran Milosch Meriac David Brown Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Jun 2 02:50:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 086FC3A0366; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 02:50:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: suit@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.1.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: suit@ietf.org Message-ID: <159109140195.24589.15435190664160497578@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2020 02:50:02 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-information-model-07.txt X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2020 09:50:02 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Software Updates for Internet of Things WG of the IETF. Title : An Information Model for Firmware Updates in IoT Devices Authors : Brendan Moran Hannes Tschofenig Henk Birkholz Filename : draft-ietf-suit-information-model-07.txt Pages : 40 Date : 2020-06-02 Abstract: Vulnerabilities with Internet of Things (IoT) devices have raised the need for a solid and secure firmware update mechanism that is also suitable for constrained devices. Ensuring that devices function and remain secure over their service life requires such an update mechanism to fix vulnerabilities, to update configuration settings, as well as adding new functionality. One component of such a firmware update is a concise and machine- processable meta-data document, or manifest, that describes the firmware image(s) and offers appropriate protection. This document describes the information that must be present in the manifest. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-information-model/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-information-model-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-suit-information-model-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-suit-information-model-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 2 02:55:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044093A0781 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 02:55:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zvEUAI3BU77B for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 02:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AC593A0771 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 02:55:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1591091736; bh=MJJSjoQgP/U4slQrKUCCn2Y7vOiJcvI7iRoj9DlNNng=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Subject:Date; b=ZmAX30MT8rsjBVvcWVA6aI77EX+LW85yXJ84sRgF9Nh8fbSDlo9CClffMoejBJSUu UTrrqXTNhOlLBvYm61blwfeZ/2JfdTbbO9H2Eo3dimEWNSr5bQxuN1LjaMA6HRHgAm Pw2EbcA2c2MF1OWnayc9MlAUZcXVhypaQjQMKnnY= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from E119863 ([80.92.121.49]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MhlKy-1j2cDg1fKS-00doOA for ; Tue, 02 Jun 2020 11:55:36 +0200 From: To: Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 11:55:35 +0200 Message-ID: <047601d638c3$f6c62fd0$e4528f70$@gmx.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0477_01D638D4.BA5604B0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 X-CheckRecipientChecked: true Thread-Index: AdY4w0Xe2JpxDUbwRL6Zo2vfxx7w1Q== Content-Language: en-us x-ts-tracking-id: 0cf02f5c-2375-4529-b1ea-e556b3376c6b.0 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:tkyYPReMTOCvSqUNh5Tz0JIA/yzf2NqykU2tg3dZkq2ca0VMdRm om9hebUbGj/RV/H8npK12/1KfkqcFQ4QTEI5XG9m59NvgRtpZrgNpQjbcUC2d04Njj1kZFx FSklIZxfq8u/6qM0LFwxVTpJ82sfnUFQa6ohb+GRo1bRZIRrXbEuH6S+ggSr2KbG21ZsuwS 6+SWXVq0kwp/KbEefSOVA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Xlw+pgTVp3w=:YYbAqSThZYMS9flkF5iPmW Jo9parnX586nAnpK8PjLZu3+Ql6cobJREnO8eXwcU5EWZOEelu2CF23RG8JGKjPWYSSwGRKtk GDBvgZaWB3Rl7JMiXGFZg5pO3/s5QSr+2zUJviCIAo2gdbrJfSzayyBCRuSjR2806Lnu9GAR0 tEcjLt9Xg+NbEqs1A0pAqIFYurG9gpFaDOOLZzzBAdMz8ZoKTsREZi5UJKkUGCmmNs08T86LX 8x2w8G3AiE0BFt51Oadk9cZXWz926lWSIgc5c/PFFtQXrRi16sC+PpcbO8ojE91xThMhWByeK OTvVK4X1EOZifVZrmXMP31mdmPBVxZXPzE/c3OGZwRTOWaiYIAwiLa6l5WCTvgCuqdEUXruSQ k23zo/OyyAI/6WUYWoX8n1nnbyvNBZJJtP9uqWbxgTYlzE+V8DhrHZsmvsrkseO134W4AjU1f 5JlOt5ud19ACY7yEyIe5+Q4In8aGySRyB0h1KJ+REHS2+kK6KtI8eUKYpJmC+h+6WRZkbuG0k Cqutp0TjYgILauQKCLLVarCJuv4lZZDShGWddTiQB34HEKHXPCvJo6J7/HXygWlJ7+xQ2HgpR j+xpBLcTw0HLoyByzy6N5ALwa1bCNeNsbBLZt4pj37IRvNPSf7mkIObmM1+LaSR3AjigJe3sj MmGUuTxZPfaO12+D+pq9ZpphLADhgLWHOxokguubIQwJ5Zuh/sZoKYxieTGdv0UpSVwoR3XyW 1uyNqQgsDIpMb3dZpgqzfVLHyW7N4nQj746hPZv4R6ZSJ3VUd0xd3hqfuCAEUjokk30bJIR1z s3cQZPijRot3K0l04alUO1UTNrtdyXlEdNmlSdY58eC8q3kvc3qKrY25+Rin/P6BGnmV/R+Qp ou++6vz0G0IFTpAI+vM1fvIsf3jUsE2wPiQg5Gw7yjWM8iQi9JBfTVAADMy2LimDjFPQxWgu7 4qI3mOA/Afx6j6/sng8CNgRgbIM4qlhAHHjppiFBIkVJe4evPajUwlactHgqrVbPBweHXjLF4 O3PtIK3p6zhfF7Dy5o8SDhkG+k3YPf3y1ymkjunbqtoDWVtg6Un1X3I0Jm58TYKNRwaqJ6vd+ wydqId3lMRrF+0+YUZkIRMa92ussfMs3aR5JLpHvdCzQRU995X9Cpg5tJ1lVHsBGDfiLcpcOv LVlcIpnONsMDuJhntbTarPzK5Jpg791Ohsa3knbbDEif2O/OT7iMMINhLunfOiOLlNIO1us9d vs0DgqnuK0iil5/K8 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] draft-ietf-suit-information-model-07 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2020 09:55:42 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0477_01D638D4.BA5604B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I have just submitted version -07 of the information model draft with the following changes: * Editorial changes, * RFC 2119 changes in Section 4.5.11 (see below), and * Removal of references to CWT, COSE and CMS (because they are not relevant for this type of the document). None of these changes have an impact on the manifest format. Here is the new version: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-suit-information-model-07 Here is the diff: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-suit-information-model-07= .txt Change in Section 4.5.11: FROM: The manifest must be held immutable between verification and processing (see REQ.SEC.MFST.CONST ( Section 4.3.20)), so a larger manifest will consume more memory with immutability guarantees, for example internal RAM or NVRAM, or external secure memory. . If the manifest exceeds the available immutable memory, then it must be processed modularly, evaluating each of: delegation chains, the security container, and the actual manifest, which includes verifying the integrated payload. TO: The manifest MUST be held immutable between verification and processing (see REQ.SEC.MFST.CONST ( Section 4.3.20)), so a larger manifest will consume more memory with immutability guarantees, for example internal RAM or NVRAM, or external secure memory. . If the manifest exceeds the available immutable memory, then it MUST be processed modularly, evaluating each of: delegation chains, the security container, and the actual manifest, which includes verifying the integrated payload. Ciao Hannes ------=_NextPart_000_0477_01D638D4.BA5604B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

I have just = submitted version -07 of the information model draft with the following = changes:

  • Editorial changes,
  • RFC 2119 changes in = Section 4.5.11 (see below), and =
  • Removal of references = to CWT, COSE and CMS (because they are not relevant for this type of the = document).

 

None of = these changes have an impact on the manifest format.

 

Here is the = new version:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-suit-informat= ion-model-07

 

Here is the = diff:

https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-suit-info= rmation-model-07.txt

 

Change in = Section 4.5.11:

 

FROM: =

 

   The manifest must be held immutable =
between
   verification and processing (see =
REQ.SEC.MFST.CONST
   (Section =
4.3.20)), so a larger manifest will consume more memory =
with
   immutability guarantees, for example =
internal RAM or NVRAM, or
   external secure =
memory.
…

   If the manifest exceeds the = available

   immutable memory, then it must be = processed modularly, evaluating

   each of: delegation chains, the security = container, and the actual

   manifest, which includes verifying the = integrated payload.

 

TO:

 

   The manifest MUST be held immutable =
between
   verification and processing (see =
REQ.SEC.MFST.CONST
   (Section =
4.3.20)), so a larger manifest will consume more memory =
with
   immutability guarantees, for example =
internal RAM or NVRAM, or
   external secure =
memory.
…
   If the manifest exceeds the =
available
   immutable memory, then it MUST be =
processed modularly, evaluating
   each of: delegation chains, the =
security container, and the actual
   manifest, which includes verifying =
the integrated payload.

 

 

Ciao

Hannes

 

------=_NextPart_000_0477_01D638D4.BA5604B0-- From nobody Tue Jun 2 08:11:52 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87C103A09C0 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 08:11:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id orP35YhbtqWZ for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 08:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94B4F3A09F2 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 08:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32266300AAF for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 11:11:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id tRwTbRnJQ6Vj for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 11:11:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-72-66-113-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.113.56]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1B528300A51 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 11:11:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2020 11:11:37 -0400 References: <8B18059D-608B-41AD-B12D-8BB33895B402@vigilsec.com> To: suit In-Reply-To: <8B18059D-608B-41AD-B12D-8BB33895B402@vigilsec.com> Message-Id: <3A876E1C-225F-4667-97E5-506C682A8364@vigilsec.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Doodle pool for SUIT Virtual Hackathon X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2020 15:11:51 -0000 All responders have said that 13 and 14 July 2020 are acceptable dates, = but 13 July 2020 has one less "if need be" response. So, we are going = to start working toward a Virtual Hackathon on13 July 2020. Russ > On May 26, 2020, at 4:52 PM, Russ Housley = wrote: >=20 > We would like to hold a SUIT Virtual Hackathon about a week before = IETF 108, which will also be virtual. A Doodle poll has been set up to = puck the best date. >=20 > https://doodle.com/poll/6scac6wpupyd4vfh >=20 > We expect the Hackathon to start around 13:00 UTC and run for about 8 = hours. We expect to start with the usual tutorial and kick-off = activities, and we expect to wrap up with short summaries of what got = accomplished. We expect people to come and go, but the WebEx will be = available for people to collaborate throughout that time. >=20 > Thanks, > Russ, Dave, Dave >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit From nobody Tue Jun 2 09:20:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D9033A0C7D; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 09:19:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: suit@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.1.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: suit@ietf.org Message-ID: <159111479611.10865.11947400894806568697@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2020 09:19:56 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-06.txt X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2020 16:19:58 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Software Updates for Internet of Things WG of the IETF. Title : A Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR)-based Serialization Format for the Software Updates for Internet of Things (SUIT) Manifest Authors : Brendan Moran Hannes Tschofenig Henk Birkholz Koen Zandberg Filename : draft-ietf-suit-manifest-06.txt Pages : 93 Date : 2020-06-02 Abstract: This specification describes the format of a manifest. A manifest is a bundle of metadata about the firmware for an IoT device, where to find the firmware, the devices to which it applies, and cryptographic information protecting the manifest. Firmware updates and secure boot both tend to use sequences of common operations, so the manifest encodes those sequences of operations, rather than declaring the metadata. The manifest also serves as a building block for secure boot. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-manifest/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-suit-manifest-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 2 09:24:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 697593A0C80 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2020 09:24:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=f4cQESd6; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=f4cQESd6 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b1jvBwUvhL15 for ; 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Ip=[63.35.35.123]; Helo=[64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR08MB4338 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] draft-ietf-suit-manifest-06 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2020 16:24:56 -0000 --_000_AM0PR08MB3716450B3C7EEB4B77801A4FFA8B0AM0PR08MB3716eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all I just submitted -06 of the draft when I realized that I introduced a bug w= ith the section numbering in -05. Have also moved text around a bit in the manifest section in the hope to im= prove readability. It is worth a try. Here is the doc: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-06 The diff is again not very insightful. Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. --_000_AM0PR08MB3716450B3C7EEB4B77801A4FFA8B0AM0PR08MB3716eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all

 

I just submitted -06 of the draft when I realized th= at I introduced a bug with the section numbering in -05.

Have also moved text around a bit in the manifest se= ction in the hope to improve readability. It is worth a try.

 

Here is the doc:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-06=

 

The diff is again not very insightful.

 

Ciao

Hannes

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. --_000_AM0PR08MB3716450B3C7EEB4B77801A4FFA8B0AM0PR08MB3716eurp_-- From nobody Wed Jun 3 02:22:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F82D3A0F67 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2020 02:22:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=G5r1LFuY; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=G5r1LFuY Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kOSmLsSHgz1a for ; 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Wed, 3 Jun 2020 09:22:41 +0000 Received: from AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f5:e4d9:51ff:eae]) by AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f5:e4d9:51ff:eae%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3066.018; Wed, 3 Jun 2020 09:22:41 +0000 From: Hannes Tschofenig To: "suit@ietf.org" CC: Saad EL JAOUHARI Thread-Topic: How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? 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X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2020 09:22:55 -0000 --_000_AM0PR08MB371631B7C1E6B50DCA29049AFA880AM0PR08MB3716eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, in his review of the recent manifest draft Saad (on CC) pointed out that it= is not clear how the firmware version is identified in the manifest. This = is a good question and I thought I bring up to the group. It turns out that= there are different use cases that require identification of different pie= ces of software and here is a list of what I consider relevant: * The manifest needs to point to a location where to obtain the firmware. T= his is accomplished with a URL. Section 7.3 describes an example (look for = the uri parameters directive). * There is the digest of the firmware, which is used for security purposes,= and there is an example in Section 7.3 (look for the image digest paramete= rs directive). * Then, there is also the component id, which indicates where to store the = software / image. We discussed this recently in the context of TEEP where t= he binaries of trusted applications are protected with the manifest and tho= se binaries will typically end up on a file system. In the OP-TEE secure wo= rld OS those binaries are stored with the UUIDs in their file name. In a lo= w end IoT device, like a Cortex M class processor, there is typically no fi= le system and hence the firmware image ends up in a flash memory slot. * There is also the case with a differential update where the manifest need= s to indicate to what firmware images the differential update can be applie= d to. This is accomplished with the image match condition. * Finally, there is also a version condition. This allows to express that a= manifest is applicable to one or multiple versions of the firmware. As des= cribed in the information model draft, this situation occurs when you uploa= d an application that relies on existing software to be present on the devi= ce. (Think of it as an API version.) It is important to note that the manifest is not meant to be used to descri= be the software running on the device. This is the job of other tools, such= as COSWID. The manifest instead provides instructions on how to update fir= mware and to accomplish secure boot. Is this a topic that needs to be better described in the draft? Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. --_000_AM0PR08MB371631B7C1E6B50DCA29049AFA880AM0PR08MB3716eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

in his review of the recent manifest draft Saad (on = CC) pointed out that it is not clear how the firmware version is identified= in the manifest. This is a good question and I thought I bring up to the g= roup. It turns out that there are different use cases that require identification of different pieces of sof= tware and here is a list of what I consider relevant:

 

* The manifest needs to point to a location where to= obtain the firmware. This is accomplished with a URL. Section 7.3 describe= s an example (look for the uri parameters directive).

 

* There is the digest of the firmware, which is used= for security purposes, and there is an example in Section 7.3 (look for th= e image digest parameters directive).

 

* Then, there is also the component id, which indica= tes where to store the software / image. We discussed this recently in the = context of TEEP where the binaries of trusted applications are protected wi= th the manifest and those binaries will typically end up on a file system. In the OP-TEE secure world OS thos= e binaries are stored with the UUIDs in their file name. In a low end IoT d= evice, like a Cortex M class processor, there is typically no file system a= nd hence the firmware image ends up in a flash memory slot.

 

* There is also the case with a differential update = where the manifest needs to indicate to what firmware images the differenti= al update can be applied to. This is accomplished with the image match cond= ition.

 

* Finally, there is also a version condition. This a= llows to express that a manifest is applicable to one or multiple versions = of the firmware. As described in the information model draft, this situatio= n occurs when you upload an application that relies on existing software to be present on the device. (Think of it= as an API version.)

 

It is important to note that the manifest is not mea= nt to be used to describe the software running on the device. This is the j= ob of other tools, such as COSWID. The manifest instead provides instructio= ns on how to update firmware and to accomplish secure boot.

 

Is this a topic that needs to be better described in= the draft?

 

Ciao

Hannes

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. --_000_AM0PR08MB371631B7C1E6B50DCA29049AFA880AM0PR08MB3716eurp_-- From nobody Wed Jun 3 10:57:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D03E63A0C9A for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2020 10:57:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T-v0v-ylhhov for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2020 10:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BEB03A0C85 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 2020 10:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0387B5C011C; Wed, 3 Jun 2020 13:57:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 03 Jun 2020 13:57:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=2lEFa9 JnhfSjUsQ+KsUyUTqwfartuxhpW+wgeW+DI6c=; b=kG4b1p93xffV25RBL6W3VA UmQtR6AR4R7bT13x7q+u9nKYjAkysVVDPvAL+yfSSzXtRNN47DZkVhLltVnpKK3g wUSfz5Lg/7t/6UQ8nJwTaDDb3Eaks3XkfX9A3LxYKtfR9foSUw09U9Eej7ofAwEq s5gdHpKd8Ppb/Z56xmpfWyHhcynyEsz4WQLjhqc2JClq6mUEFVtlAFuLos7LNnm1 hS2T9rKRtW49M9+zAI+m0DeW07MaCKufPpRHeahaV+IAAWMjIQjb0PbqaCQNBCc9 4Idp89TS3VfENckBZo5+0RNXVHl5Py7S90bWVrU6kWQ7GC+XZQzHkhG669f5YxpQ == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudefledgleegucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhephffvfhgjufffohfkgggtofhtsehrtdhgpedvtddvnecuhfhrohhmpedfffhi tghkuceurhhoohhkshdfuceoughitghksehrvghlihgrsghlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlh ihthhitghsrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpefgjeehueefveethfeiffelteev hfekkefhheelgfetffefjefhueeigeeuffeivdenucffohhmrghinheprhgvlhhirggslh gvvghnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomhenucfkphepjeefrddvfeegrddvgedv rdduvdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe guihgtkhesrhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from farpoint (c-73-234-242-12.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [73.234.242.12]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 63A6F3061CB6; Wed, 3 Jun 2020 13:57:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: "'Hannes Tschofenig'" , Cc: "'Saad EL JAOUHARI'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 13:57:01 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_8B6E_01D639AE.DB5127F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQEpJGg3Q76y3b59AZfDOO6eGr7fRKohU+gA Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2020 17:57:06 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_8B6E_01D639AE.DB5127F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_8B6F_01D639AE.DB5127F0" ------=_NextPart_001_8B6F_01D639AE.DB5127F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My Company provides Risk Assessment software to the US Electric Industry to meet NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 software integrity and authenticity and verification standards across the software supply chain; my comments pertain specifically to this use case. See responses inline: DB>> Thanks, Dick Brooks Never trust software, always verify and report! T http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 From: Suit On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2020 5:23 AM To: suit@ietf.org Cc: Saad EL JAOUHARI Subject: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? Hi all, in his review of the recent manifest draft Saad (on CC) pointed out that it is not clear how the firmware version is identified in the manifest. This is a good question and I thought I bring up to the group. It turns out that there are different use cases that require identification of different pieces of software and here is a list of what I consider relevant: DB>> Risk assessments for NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 require corroborating evidence to establish trust in a software object. It's important that the identification marks within a software object be consistent across domains. The data in the installation file must match data in the digital signature and metadata within vulnerability databases so that we can get accurate risk assessments. * The manifest needs to point to a location where to obtain the firmware. This is accomplished with a URL. Section 7.3 describes an example (look for the uri parameters directive). DB>> The "Trusted Source Location URL" where the "real/trusted" software object is available is vitally important for an effective NERC CIP-010-3 risk assessment. This is part of the corroborating evidence that's needed. * There is the digest of the firmware, which is used for security purposes, and there is an example in Section 7.3 (look for the image digest parameters directive). * Then, there is also the component id, which indicates where to store the software / image. We discussed this recently in the context of TEEP where the binaries of trusted applications are protected with the manifest and those binaries will typically end up on a file system. In the OP-TEE secure world OS those binaries are stored with the UUIDs in their file name. In a low end IoT device, like a Cortex M class processor, there is typically no file system and hence the firmware image ends up in a flash memory slot. * There is also the case with a differential update where the manifest needs to indicate to what firmware images the differential update can be applied to. This is accomplished with the image match condition. DB>>Patches/Updates must contain clear metadata that can be correlated with a specific software object that represents the original installation, and other patch dependencies that must be in place for a successful deployment. A "Trusted Source Location URL" is also required, for CIP-010-3 software integrity and authenticity risk assessments. * Finally, there is also a version condition. This allows to express that a manifest is applicable to one or multiple versions of the firmware. As described in the information model draft, this situation occurs when you upload an application that relies on existing software to be present on the device. (Think of it as an API version.) It is important to note that the manifest is not meant to be used to describe the software running on the device. This is the job of other tools, such as COSWID. The manifest instead provides instructions on how to update firmware and to accomplish secure boot. DB>> I'm hoping to use the manifest as a virtual SBOM. Will let you know if I'm successful in this regard. Is this a topic that needs to be better described in the draft? DB>> I believe so. Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. ------=_NextPart_001_8B6F_01D639AE.DB5127F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My Company provides Risk Assessment software to the US = Electric Industry to meet NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 software integrity = and authenticity and verification standards across the software supply = chain; my comments pertain specifically to this use = case.

 

See responses inline: DB>>

 

 

From: Suit = <suit-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Hannes = Tschofenig
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2020 5:23 = AM
To: suit@ietf.org
Cc: Saad EL JAOUHARI = <saadeljaou@gmail.com>
Subject: [Suit] How are firmware = and firmware versions expressed in = manifest?

 

Hi all, =

 

in his review of the recent manifest draft Saad (on = CC) pointed out that it is not clear how the firmware version is = identified in the manifest. This is a good question and I thought I = bring up to the group. It turns out that there are different use cases = that require identification of different pieces of software and here is = a list of what I consider relevant:

 

 

DB>> = Risk assessments for NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 require corroborating = evidence to establish trust in a software object. It’s important = that the identification marks within a software object be consistent = across domains. The data in the installation file must match data in the = digital signature and metadata within vulnerability databases so that we = can get accurate risk assessments.

 

* The = manifest needs to point to a location where to obtain the firmware. This = is accomplished with a URL. Section 7.3 describes an example (look for = the uri parameters directive).

 

 

DB>> = The “Trusted Source Location URL” where the = “real/trusted” software object is available is vitally = important for an effective NERC CIP-010-3 risk assessment. This is part = of the corroborating evidence that’s needed.

 

 

* There is = the digest of the firmware, which is used for security purposes, and = there is an example in Section 7.3 (look for the image digest parameters = directive).

 

* Then, there is also the component id, which = indicates where to store the software / image. We discussed this = recently in the context of TEEP where the binaries of trusted = applications are protected with the manifest and those binaries will = typically end up on a file system. In the OP-TEE secure world OS those = binaries are stored with the UUIDs in their file name. In a low end IoT = device, like a Cortex M class processor, there is typically no file = system and hence the firmware image ends up in a flash memory slot. =

 

* There is also the case with a differential update = where the manifest needs to indicate to what firmware images the = differential update can be applied to. This is accomplished with the = image match condition.

 

DB>>Patches/Updates must contain clear metadata = that can be correlated with a specific software object that represents = the original installation, and other patch dependencies that must be in = place for a successful deployment. A  “Trusted Source = Location URL” is also required, for CIP-010-3 software integrity = and authenticity risk assessments.

 

* Finally, = there is also a version condition. This allows to express that a = manifest is applicable to one or multiple versions of the firmware. As = described in the information model draft, this situation occurs when you = upload an application that relies on existing software to be present on = the device. (Think of it as an API version.)

 

It is = important to note that the manifest is not meant to be used to describe = the software running on the device. This is the job of other tools, such = as COSWID. The manifest instead provides instructions on how to update = firmware and to accomplish secure boot.

 

DB>> = I’m hoping to use the manifest as a virtual SBOM. Will let you = know if I’m successful in this regard.

 

Is this a = topic that needs to be better described in the draft?

 

DB>> I = believe so.

 

Ciao

Hannes

IMPORTANT = NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential = and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, = please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to = any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the = information in any medium. Thank you.

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(2603:10a6:208:106::13) by AM0PR08MB3108.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:208:5c::33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3066.19; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 16:44:44 +0000 Received: from AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f5:e4d9:51ff:eae]) by AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f5:e4d9:51ff:eae%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3066.018; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 16:44:44 +0000 From: Hannes Tschofenig To: Dick Brooks , "suit@ietf.org" CC: 'Saad EL JAOUHARI' Thread-Topic: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? 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X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 16:44:57 -0000 --_000_AM0PR08MB37166AD36B5AA36EA7D7CA9BFA890AM0PR08MB3716eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dick, Thanks for the review comments and for the pointer to NERC CIP-010-3. Please see my comments below: ~~ snip~~ Hi all, in his review of the recent manifest draft Saad (on CC) pointed out that it= is not clear how the firmware version is identified in the manifest. This = is a good question and I thought I bring up to the group. It turns out that= there are different use cases that require identification of different pie= ces of software and here is a list of what I consider relevant: DB>> Risk assessments for NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 require corroborating= evidence to establish trust in a software object. It's important that the = identification marks within a software object be consistent across domains.= The data in the installation file must match data in the digital signature= and metadata within vulnerability databases so that we can get accurate ri= sk assessments. [Hannes] Looking at Part 1.6 I see two requirements, namely: 1.6.1. Verify = the identity of the software source; and 1.6.2. Verify the integrity of the= software obtained from the software source. This is certainly met by the digital signature covering the manifest (provi= ded by the COSE wrapper) and the manifest also includes the digest of the f= irmware/software, which ensures the integrity of it. Part 1.6 then goes on and says: "An example of evidence may include, but is= not limited to a change request record that demonstrates the verification = of identity of the software source and integrity of the software was perfor= med prior to the baseline change or a process which documents the mechanism= s in place that would automatically ensure the identity of the software sou= rce and integrity of the software." I am not sure about this part and whether it there is something needed in a= ddition to what we already have in the previously mentioned security wrappe= r. * The manifest needs to point to a location where to obtain the firmware. T= his is accomplished with a URL. Section 7.3 describes an example (look for = the uri parameters directive). DB>> The "Trusted Source Location URL" where the "real/trusted" software ob= ject is available is vitally important for an effective NERC CIP-010-3 risk= assessment. This is part of the corroborating evidence that's needed. [Hannes] The URL is included in the manifest and, while there is a way to o= verride it (assuming proper authorization). Since the software/firmware is,= as mentioned above, also integrity protected there is another layer of def= ense provided. * There is the digest of the firmware, which is used for security purposes,= and there is an example in Section 7.3 (look for the image digest paramete= rs directive). * Then, there is also the component id, which indicates where to store the = software / image. We discussed this recently in the context of TEEP where t= he binaries of trusted applications are protected with the manifest and tho= se binaries will typically end up on a file system. In the OP-TEE secure wo= rld OS those binaries are stored with the UUIDs in their file name. In a lo= w end IoT device, like a Cortex M class processor, there is typically no fi= le system and hence the firmware image ends up in a flash memory slot. * There is also the case with a differential update where the manifest need= s to indicate to what firmware images the differential update can be applie= d to. This is accomplished with the image match condition. DB>>Patches/Updates must contain clear metadata that can be correlated with= a specific software object that represents the original installation, and = other patch dependencies that must be in place for a successful deployment.= A "Trusted Source Location URL" is also required, for CIP-010-3 software = integrity and authenticity risk assessments. [Hannes] This is indeed provided and I think we are good there. We should p= robably add an example. * Finally, there is also a version condition. This allows to express that a= manifest is applicable to one or multiple versions of the firmware. As des= cribed in the information model draft, this situation occurs when you uploa= d an application that relies on existing software to be present on the devi= ce. (Think of it as an API version.) It is important to note that the manifest is not meant to be used to descri= be the software running on the device. This is the job of other tools, such= as COSWID. The manifest instead provides instructions on how to update fir= mware and to accomplish secure boot. DB>> I'm hoping to use the manifest as a virtual SBOM. Will let you know if= I'm successful in this regard. [Hannes] Thanks, feedback would be highly appreciated. Is this a topic that needs to be better described in the draft? DB>> I believe so. [Hannes] I will give it a try and post text for a new section to the list. Thanks for the feedback. Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. --_000_AM0PR08MB37166AD36B5AA36EA7D7CA9BFA890AM0PR08MB3716eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Dick,

 

Thanks for the review comments and for the pointer t= o NERC CIP-010-3.

 

Please see my comments below:

 

~~ snip~~

 

Hi all,

 

in his review of the recent manifest draft Saad (on = CC) pointed out that it is not clear how the firmware version is identified= in the manifest. This is a good question and I thought I bring up to the g= roup. It turns out that there are different use cases that require identification of different pieces of sof= tware and here is a list of what I consider relevant:

 

 

DB>> Risk assessments for NERC CIP-010-3 R1, P= art 1.6 require corroborating evidence to establish trust in a software obj= ect. It’s important that the identification marks within a software o= bject be consistent across domains. The data in the installation file must match data in the digital signature and metadat= a within vulnerability databases so that we can get accurate risk assessmen= ts.

 

[Hannes] Looking at Part 1.6 I see two requirements,= namely: 1.6.1. Verify the identity of the software source; and 1.6.2. Veri= fy the integrity of the software obtained from the software source.

 

This is certainly met by the digital signature cover= ing the manifest (provided by the COSE wrapper) and the manifest also inclu= des the digest of the firmware/software, which ensures the integrity of it.

 

Part 1.6 then goes on and says: “An example of= evidence may include, but is not limited to a change request record that d= emonstrates the verification of identity of the software source and integri= ty of the software was performed prior to the baseline change or a process which documents the mechanisms in place t= hat would automatically ensure the identity of the software source and inte= grity of the software."

 

I am not sure about this part and whether it there i= s something needed in addition to what we already have in the previously me= ntioned security wrapper.

 

 

 

* The manifest needs to point to a location where to= obtain the firmware. This is accomplished with a URL. Section 7.3 describe= s an example (look for the uri parameters directive).

 

 

DB>> The “Trusted Source Location URL= 221; where the “real/trusted” software object is available is v= itally important for an effective NERC CIP-010-3 risk assessment. This is p= art of the corroborating evidence that’s needed.

 

[Hannes] The URL is included in the manifest and, wh= ile there is a way to override it (assuming proper authorization). Since th= e software/firmware is, as mentioned above, also integrity protected there = is another layer of defense provided.

 

* There is the digest of the firmware, which is used= for security purposes, and there is an example in Section 7.3 (look for th= e image digest parameters directive).

 

* Then, there is also the component id, which indica= tes where to store the software / image. We discussed this recently in the = context of TEEP where the binaries of trusted applications are protected wi= th the manifest and those binaries will typically end up on a file system. In the OP-TEE secure world OS thos= e binaries are stored with the UUIDs in their file name. In a low end IoT d= evice, like a Cortex M class processor, there is typically no file system a= nd hence the firmware image ends up in a flash memory slot.

 

* There is also the case with a differential update = where the manifest needs to indicate to what firmware images the differenti= al update can be applied to. This is accomplished with the image match cond= ition.

 

DB>>Patches/Updates must contain clear metadat= a that can be correlated with a specific software object that represents th= e original installation, and other patch dependencies that must be in place= for a successful deployment. A  “Trusted Source Location URL” is also required, for CIP-010-3 software integr= ity and authenticity risk assessments.

 

[Hannes] This is indeed provided and I think we are = good there. We should probably add an example.

 

 

* Finally, there is also a version condition. This a= llows to express that a manifest is applicable to one or multiple versions = of the firmware. As described in the information model draft, this situatio= n occurs when you upload an application that relies on existing software to be present on the device. (Think of it= as an API version.)

 

It is important to note that the manifest is not mea= nt to be used to describe the software running on the device. This is the j= ob of other tools, such as COSWID. The manifest instead provides instructio= ns on how to update firmware and to accomplish secure boot.

 

DB>> I’m hoping to use the manifest as a= virtual SBOM. Will let you know if I’m successful in this regard.

 

[Hannes] Thanks, feedback would be highly appreciate= d.

 

 

Is this a topic that needs to be better described in= the draft?

 

DB>> I believe so.

 

[Hannes] I will give it a try and post text for a ne= w section to the list.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Ciao

Hannes

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. --_000_AM0PR08MB37166AD36B5AA36EA7D7CA9BFA890AM0PR08MB3716eurp_-- From nobody Thu Jun 4 10:24:18 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C9E53A08CA for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 10:24:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C70vtk1seWuc for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 10:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E79BC3A08B7 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 10:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EAC25C00BA; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 13:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 04 Jun 2020 13:24:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=cqGMvJ fOUabar16rW0Rg12I7jTNDj2r1w2KshemNn0A=; b=DgFZL6NExEKToTt6zD36Y+ YQyAUYqQ+957c9hXR/9vEk0qkkoEqCtJ75MT1K3MZCBXGoNhuszCAvzroXze6Ibp q7PYQyVzWqMLD4yKaGapGSPAOtu0gTNOBgcHd+JLjsFX636Hnt1sX6eXNAmlIiHg 7tWtiIOeuPJ/TOtrtLTVANg/aBJVSKK0DrsQza4f1MqHlOQ35YU9eps2rpXMcB3i IjGJDG+eo6MojOkd+mFCVZizAM/zVq8VsBl7830SKOHBkZbNO0rioZLiCHuRCwI5 TqnY4bh5/lSrzh3RzMhvHiJrsWnHuZKrBnrVwmuyTtu0r/wah36Z7erBCGuC8aew == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudeguddguddtgecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefhvfhfjgfuffhokfggtgfothesrhdtghepvddtvdenucfhrhhomhepfdff ihgtkhcuuehrohhokhhsfdcuoeguihgtkhesrhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrg hlhihtihgtshdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepgfejheeufeevtefhieffleet vefhkeekhfehlefgtefffeejhfeuieegueffiedvnecuffhomhgrihhnpehrvghlihgrsg hlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihthhitghsrdgtohhmnecukfhppedvudeirdduleefrddu gedvrddvvdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhroh hmpeguihgtkhesrhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from farpoint (unknown [216.193.142.22]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9C5133061856; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 13:24:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: "'Hannes Tschofenig'" , Cc: "'Saad EL JAOUHARI'" References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 13:24:10 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_CF6D_01D63A73.6F9ABBF0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQEpJGg3Q76y3b59AZfDOO6eGr7fRAJUo0s2Am+d4lmp/LhecA== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 17:24:16 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_CF6D_01D63A73.6F9ABBF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_CF6E_01D63A73.6F9ABBF0" ------=_NextPart_001_CF6E_01D63A73.6F9ABBF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Hannes - I very much appreciate your thoughts and insights; my responses are shown inline DB2>> Thanks, Dick Brooks Never trust software, always verify and report! T http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 From: Suit On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2020 12:45 PM To: Dick Brooks ; suit@ietf.org Cc: 'Saad EL JAOUHARI' Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? Hi Dick, Thanks for the review comments and for the pointer to NERC CIP-010-3. Please see my comments below: ~~ snip~~ Hi all, in his review of the recent manifest draft Saad (on CC) pointed out that it is not clear how the firmware version is identified in the manifest. This is a good question and I thought I bring up to the group. It turns out that there are different use cases that require identification of different pieces of software and here is a list of what I consider relevant: DB>> Risk assessments for NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 require corroborating evidence to establish trust in a software object. It's important that the identification marks within a software object be consistent across domains. The data in the installation file must match data in the digital signature and metadata within vulnerability databases so that we can get accurate risk assessments. [Hannes] Looking at Part 1.6 I see two requirements, namely: 1.6.1. Verify the identity of the software source; and 1.6.2. Verify the integrity of the software obtained from the software source. This is certainly met by the digital signature covering the manifest (provided by the COSE wrapper) and the manifest also includes the digest of the firmware/software, which ensures the integrity of it. Part 1.6 then goes on and says: "An example of evidence may include, but is not limited to a change request record that demonstrates the verification of identity of the software source and integrity of the software was performed prior to the baseline change or a process which documents the mechanisms in place that would automatically ensure the identity of the software source and integrity of the software." I am not sure about this part and whether it there is something needed in addition to what we already have in the previously mentioned security wrapper. DB2>>You have to look a little deeper to understand what it means to "verify" identity and authenticity (see page 36 of CIP-010-3 technical guidelines for software verification for more detail). A digitally signed object can still carry malware, so it takes more digging to conduct an effective verification than simply relying on a digitally singed object (which could contain a contaminated library in the build process - hopefully not). * The manifest needs to point to a location where to obtain the firmware. This is accomplished with a URL. Section 7.3 describes an example (look for the uri parameters directive). DB>> The "Trusted Source Location URL" where the "real/trusted" software object is available is vitally important for an effective NERC CIP-010-3 risk assessment. This is part of the corroborating evidence that's needed. [Hannes] The URL is included in the manifest and, while there is a way to override it (assuming proper authorization). Since the software/firmware is, as mentioned above, also integrity protected there is another layer of defense provided. DB2>>Does the URL include the path+filename of the actual software object being downloaded? If yes, this would be very useful information. * There is the digest of the firmware, which is used for security purposes, and there is an example in Section 7.3 (look for the image digest parameters directive). * Then, there is also the component id, which indicates where to store the software / image. We discussed this recently in the context of TEEP where the binaries of trusted applications are protected with the manifest and those binaries will typically end up on a file system. In the OP-TEE secure world OS those binaries are stored with the UUIDs in their file name. In a low end IoT device, like a Cortex M class processor, there is typically no file system and hence the firmware image ends up in a flash memory slot. * There is also the case with a differential update where the manifest needs to indicate to what firmware images the differential update can be applied to. This is accomplished with the image match condition. DB>>Patches/Updates must contain clear metadata that can be correlated with a specific software object that represents the original installation, and other patch dependencies that must be in place for a successful deployment. A "Trusted Source Location URL" is also required, for CIP-010-3 software integrity and authenticity risk assessments. [Hannes] This is indeed provided and I think we are good there. We should probably add an example. DB2>>This is very good to know. Thanks for the insights. An example would be very helpful. * Finally, there is also a version condition. This allows to express that a manifest is applicable to one or multiple versions of the firmware. As described in the information model draft, this situation occurs when you upload an application that relies on existing software to be present on the device. (Think of it as an API version.) It is important to note that the manifest is not meant to be used to describe the software running on the device. This is the job of other tools, such as COSWID. The manifest instead provides instructions on how to update firmware and to accomplish secure boot. DB>> I'm hoping to use the manifest as a virtual SBOM. Will let you know if I'm successful in this regard. [Hannes] Thanks, feedback would be highly appreciated. Is this a topic that needs to be better described in the draft? DB>> I believe so. [Hannes] I will give it a try and post text for a new section to the list. DB2>> I'm also curious to know if SUIT will work for FPGA bitstreams - do you know? This one is turning out to be a tough nut to crack - very little info on FPGA bitstreams metadata (i.e. embedded IP could be concerning). I welcome any advice you can offer on this point. Thanks for the feedback. Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. ------=_NextPart_001_CF6E_01D63A73.6F9ABBF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks, Hannes – I very much appreciate your = thoughts and insights; my responses are shown inline = DB2>>

 

 

From: Suit = <suit-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Hannes = Tschofenig
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2020 12:45 = PM
To: Dick Brooks <dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com>; = suit@ietf.org
Cc: 'Saad EL JAOUHARI' = <saadeljaou@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Suit] How are = firmware and firmware versions expressed in = manifest?

 

Hi Dick, =

 

Thanks for the review comments and for the pointer to = NERC CIP-010-3.

 

Please see = my comments below:

 

~~ snip~~

 

Hi all, =

 

in his review of the recent manifest draft Saad (on = CC) pointed out that it is not clear how the firmware version is = identified in the manifest. This is a good question and I thought I = bring up to the group. It turns out that there are different use cases = that require identification of different pieces of software and here is = a list of what I consider relevant:

 

 

DB>> = Risk assessments for NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 require corroborating = evidence to establish trust in a software object. It’s important = that the identification marks within a software object be consistent = across domains. The data in the installation file must match data in the = digital signature and metadata within vulnerability databases so that we = can get accurate risk assessments.

 

[Hannes] = Looking at Part 1.6 I see two requirements, namely: 1.6.1. Verify the = identity of the software source; and 1.6.2. Verify the integrity of the = software obtained from the software source.

 

This is = certainly met by the digital signature covering the manifest (provided = by the COSE wrapper) and the manifest also includes the digest of the = firmware/software, which ensures the integrity of it.

 

Part 1.6 = then goes on and says: “An example of evidence may include, but is = not limited to a change request record that demonstrates the = verification of identity of the software source and integrity of the = software was performed prior to the baseline change or a process which = documents the mechanisms in place that would automatically ensure the = identity of the software source and integrity of the = software."

 

I am not = sure about this part and whether it there is something needed in = addition to what we already have in the previously mentioned security = wrapper.

 

DB2>>You have to look a little deeper to = understand what it means to “verify” identity and = authenticity (see page 36 of CIP-010-3 technical guidelines for software = verification for more detail). A digitally signed object can still carry = malware, so it takes more digging to conduct an effective verification = than simply relying on a digitally singed object (which could contain a = contaminated library in the build process – hopefully = not).

 

 

 

* The = manifest needs to point to a location where to obtain the firmware. This = is accomplished with a URL. Section 7.3 describes an example (look for = the uri parameters directive).

 

 

DB>> = The “Trusted Source Location URL” where the = “real/trusted” software object is available is vitally = important for an effective NERC CIP-010-3 risk assessment. This is part = of the corroborating evidence that’s needed.

 

[Hannes] The = URL is included in the manifest and, while there is a way to override it = (assuming proper authorization). Since the software/firmware is, as = mentioned above, also integrity protected there is another layer of = defense provided.

 

DB2>>Does the URL include the path+filename of = the actual software object being downloaded? If yes, this would be very = useful information.

=

 

* There is the digest of the firmware, which is used = for security purposes, and there is an example in Section 7.3 (look for = the image digest parameters directive).

 

* Then, = there is also the component id, which indicates where to store the = software / image. We discussed this recently in the context of TEEP = where the binaries of trusted applications are protected with the = manifest and those binaries will typically end up on a file system. In = the OP-TEE secure world OS those binaries are stored with the UUIDs in = their file name. In a low end IoT device, like a Cortex M class = processor, there is typically no file system and hence the firmware = image ends up in a flash memory slot.

 

* There is = also the case with a differential update where the manifest needs to = indicate to what firmware images the differential update can be applied = to. This is accomplished with the image match = condition.

 

DB>>Patches/Updates must contain clear metadata = that can be correlated with a specific software object that represents = the original installation, and other patch dependencies that must be in = place for a successful deployment. A  “Trusted Source = Location URL” is also required, for CIP-010-3 software integrity = and authenticity risk assessments.

 

[Hannes] = This is indeed provided and I think we are good there. We should = probably add an example.

 

DB2>>This is very good to know. Thanks for the = insights. An example would be very helpful.

 

 

* Finally, = there is also a version condition. This allows to express that a = manifest is applicable to one or multiple versions of the firmware. As = described in the information model draft, this situation occurs when you = upload an application that relies on existing software to be present on = the device. (Think of it as an API version.)

 

It is = important to note that the manifest is not meant to be used to describe = the software running on the device. This is the job of other tools, such = as COSWID. The manifest instead provides instructions on how to update = firmware and to accomplish secure boot.

 

DB>> = I’m hoping to use the manifest as a virtual SBOM. Will let you = know if I’m successful in this regard.

 

[Hannes] = Thanks, feedback would be highly appreciated.

 

 

Is this a = topic that needs to be better described in the draft?

 

DB>> I = believe so.

 

[Hannes] I will give it a try and post text for a new = section to the list.

 

DB2>> = I’m also curious to know if SUIT will work for FPGA bitstreams = – do you know? This one is turning out to be a tough nut to crack = – very little info on FPGA bitstreams metadata (i.e. embedded IP = could be concerning). I welcome any advice you can offer on this = point.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Ciao

Hannes

 

IMPORTANT = NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential = and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, = please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to = any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the = information in any medium. Thank you.

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Dave Thaler via Datatracker To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.1.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: dthaler@microsoft.com, suit@ietf.org, Dave Thaler , suit-chairs@ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org Message-ID: <159130495753.17100.2762277578582481168@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 14:09:17 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-suit-information-model-07 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 21:09:18 -0000 Dave Thaler has requested publication of draft-ietf-suit-information-model-07 as Informational on behalf of the SUIT working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-information-model/ From nobody Thu Jun 4 17:32:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2DEC3A10CC for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 17:32:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jjdx3ek65F4D for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 17:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C2BC3A10CB for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 17:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4628538A18; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 20:29:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id xLu2tjJC0cEQ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 20:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 805C638A10; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 20:29:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01813D2; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 20:32:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Hannes Tschofenig , Dick Brooks , "suit\@ietf.org" , 'Saad EL JAOUHARI' , Eliot Lear , Henk Birkholz In-Reply-To: References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2020 00:32:15 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > * Finally, there is also a version condition. This allows to express > that a manifest is applicable to one or multiple versions of the > firmware. As described in the information model draft, this situation > occurs when you upload an application that relies on existing software > to be present on the device. (Think of it as an API version.) > It is important to note that the manifest is not meant to be used to > describe the software running on the device. This is the job of other > tools, such as COSWID. The manifest instead provides instructions on > how to update firmware and to accomplish secure boot. There are some efforts to include RFC8520 (MUD) definitions into the Manifest, either by value or reference. (Henk!) There are other efforts to include CoSWID into RFC8520, I think. I may be mistaken as to the direction of the arrows here. DB> I'm hoping to use the manifest as a virtual SBOM. Will let you know DB> if I'm successful in this regard. The manifest could include a reference to a SBOM, but I don't think it is reasonable to to include it by value. I think that the right place to get the SBOM is via an RFC8520 (MUD) object. I think that it would help if SUIT considered how some BCPs and/or Applicability statements that helped to tie some things together. (Specifically, from the charter: This group will not define any new transport or discovery mechanisms, but may describe how to use existing mechanisms within the architecture. ) A lot of Enterprises would like to cache all firmware contents somewhere locally, avoiding external access for devices. There is an overlap here with processes that might report on success updates, caching the new SBOMs into an audit system, etc. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl7ZkokACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUYXQf6AxvOTavdU9RXX0StLoay34wnrMGNC8leh0gJED3i0b5OziRH2VA97InJ hYFKM5p7j+yayWspiMYF68md+g55Sp2FbWuG9KyLnAz3Tpi+CVQ6vbL9p8Oq5Qb/ yRbf+fCLki1vuuo26al6nF/29M/hQjiBuCz0GWrzt+wdb1gVOXksRlOCKcNz4cqu 7CBC/RTsyKlz0I2ach3iMkWp5rzPLumdiPaGVX9vRD5onIX9zPFyKSYj9B56vBfs gdZWiUA66EcyKN/x8k2uu22UREsKKIHQwqBYxC1X286fj+EbT0XtxwnNfumEu01v hUCC6UlTODq8q/apN4038s7UA8DzBg== =0kGE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Jun 5 06:11:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A00F3A0849 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 06:11:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7bxK1RQihuIa for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 06:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28B863A0846 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 06:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADF325C0175; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 09:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 05 Jun 2020 09:11:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=ehVlZA0VnrzB/G8C+UxXWUFFiAbVcPimuE5rX5ZI4 Fw=; b=GpJkBOB0cUTgNULbpYZtYX4w3C/CEBURZ2GdCPK+uFix7U7KvvyOjstpA xmLCOcUboPwTtFrxk60/ijUpqUm784qq0PWzDzHU+pfY4poONje345jurggP/j+N qL3bKGJyLsfsNVeoQfM5UEuaQnAKkH/pMLJhuaXKQjsdQjoyZsN1OiicTF6C5UI4 hCa19L6+5sVUl58XyAMNml0RzF+jtdUZ3X3De66wHH97VUAbzFl0xHUbhY/SPB2Q CQbMC+ysQNndlddAY1THnQrYzyO9qFI2qmz8sYXu1YmWsKNH+gcYX4EzKCQDtAXh Aw8MreAq7TN/i+23LurT0vf/PITBA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudegfedghedvucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhephffvfhgjufffohfkgggtgffothesthejredtvddtvdenucfhrhhomhepfdff ihgtkhcuuehrohhokhhsfdcuoeguihgtkhesrhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrg hlhihtihgtshdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepvdejudeigeehuddtkedvtefh udekkeehleeigefggfdvgfejleekfefgleegfeelnecuffhomhgrihhnpehrvghlihgrsg hlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihthhitghsrdgtohhmnecukfhppedvudeirdduleefrddu gedvrddvvdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhroh hmpeguihgtkhesrhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from farpoint (unknown [216.193.142.22]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D0E6E3060FE7; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 09:11:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: "'Michael Richardson'" , "'Hannes Tschofenig'" , , "'Saad EL JAOUHARI'" , "'Eliot Lear'" , "'Henk Birkholz'" References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> In-Reply-To: <20437.1591317129@localhost> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 09:11:28 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQEpJGg3Q76y3b59AZfDOO6eGr7fRAJUo0s2Am+d4lkB06Pk1Knval0Q Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2020 13:11:37 -0000 Thanks, Michael Richardson. I'm uncertain that MUD has exactly what I'm looking for to meet NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 expectations, after a cursory look at the standard. I don't see where the MUD process would support deep introspection and corroborating evidence within a risk assessment control prior to deployment, which is what I need for NERC CIP-010-3. The base case I'm working with is where a device in the Bulk Electric System (BES) has been acquired and deployed, that contains a firmware component. A patch has been distributed for that firmware and a grid operator wants to perform a risk assessment on the patch before any attempt at deployment. I'm still thinking that SUIT may be more appropriate than MUD for this use case, but I may be missing an important point. Can you provide a distinction between MUD and SUIT that would apply to the use case I describe, to help me understand your assertion that MUD may be more appropriate than SUIT? I genuinely just want to find the best solution to the problem I'm trying to solve, whatever that turns out to be. Wonderful thing about standards, there are so many to choose from! Thanks, Dick Brooks Never trust software, always verify and report! T http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 -----Original Message----- From: Michael Richardson Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2020 8:32 PM To: Hannes Tschofenig ; Dick Brooks ; suit@ietf.org; 'Saad EL JAOUHARI' ; Eliot Lear ; Henk Birkholz Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > * Finally, there is also a version condition. This allows to express > that a manifest is applicable to one or multiple versions of the > firmware. As described in the information model draft, this situation > occurs when you upload an application that relies on existing software > to be present on the device. (Think of it as an API version.) > It is important to note that the manifest is not meant to be used to > describe the software running on the device. This is the job of other > tools, such as COSWID. The manifest instead provides instructions on > how to update firmware and to accomplish secure boot. There are some efforts to include RFC8520 (MUD) definitions into the Manifest, either by value or reference. (Henk!) There are other efforts to include CoSWID into RFC8520, I think. I may be mistaken as to the direction of the arrows here. DB> I'm hoping to use the manifest as a virtual SBOM. Will let you know DB> if I'm successful in this regard. The manifest could include a reference to a SBOM, but I don't think it is reasonable to to include it by value. I think that the right place to get the SBOM is via an RFC8520 (MUD) object. I think that it would help if SUIT considered how some BCPs and/or Applicability statements that helped to tie some things together. (Specifically, from the charter: This group will not define any new transport or discovery mechanisms, but may describe how to use existing mechanisms within the architecture. ) A lot of Enterprises would like to cache all firmware contents somewhere locally, avoiding external access for devices. There is an overlap here with processes that might report on success updates, caching the new SBOMs into an audit system, etc. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- From nobody Fri Jun 5 09:15:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 756A43A07DF for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 09:15:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k6ODn59E1r7U for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 09:15:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20ED33A07DC for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 09:15:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4525; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1591373714; x=1592583314; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=CWyRhuRvDMW557BPKEzUBj1enuyme/Ctqs938+bh8AQ=; b=kJjb1NapjRPO3mGuOjrqLTU7vTgmsQK3bMerQxg3XPAIuX3d/tbKmn07 coLHgFVaPXQB7QnplZUPwww8LWMe2EX//XahM7fdYKoITlRVUHFUnt8DE 0p/ZzbOFkBouHhXqD651WbGJqOQuUwuoQDrUE2ctK6MEoOBDevfwyzWBb w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AEBQB1btpe/xbLJq1jAxwBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?HAQESAQEEBAEBQIFKgxpUASASLIQliQGHYyWJfpAVgWgLAQEBDAEBHxAEAQG?= =?us-ascii?q?BUIJ0AoI1JTgTAgMBAQsBAQUBAQECAQYEbYVbDIVyAQEBAQIBI1YFBwQLEQE?= =?us-ascii?q?DAQEBAgImAgIhKAYIBhMbgwsBgksDDiAPsgV2gTKIVg2CIoEOKoYchiEpggC?= =?us-ascii?q?BEScMEIFPUC4+gh6BewESASEhJoJNM4ItBJFFoW1MgmOCfYp/hiKEYwMdgme?= =?us-ascii?q?Ne41fkmGKbY1vg00CBAYFAhWBaiJmcDMaCBsVOyoBgj4JNRIZDZBMF4NPilg?= =?us-ascii?q?/AzACNQIGAQcBAQMJj0kBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.73,476,1583193600"; d="scan'208";a="26795088" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 05 Jun 2020 16:15:10 +0000 Received: from [10.61.199.107] ([10.61.199.107]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 055GF6Kh026233 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Jun 2020 16:15:07 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Eliot Lear In-Reply-To: <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 18:15:06 +0200 Cc: Michael Richardson , Hannes Tschofenig , suit@ietf.org, Saad EL JAOUHARI , Henk Birkholz Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> To: Dick Brooks X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.199.107, [10.61.199.107] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2020 16:15:16 -0000 Dick, Think of MUD as nothing more than a JSON blob that points at things or = otherwise provides guidance to the deployment about the device. It=E2=80=99= s quite generic. One of the things it can point to is how to retrieve a = software bill of materials. Another thing it can point to is a list of = certifications. If JSON scares you, it wouldn=E2=80=99t be that hard to = serialize into CBOR. Eliot > On 5 Jun 2020, at 15:11, Dick Brooks = wrote: >=20 > Thanks, Michael Richardson. I'm uncertain that MUD has exactly what = I'm > looking for to meet NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 expectations, after a > cursory look at the standard. I don't see where the MUD process would > support deep introspection and corroborating evidence within a risk > assessment control prior to deployment, which is what I need for NERC > CIP-010-3. The base case I'm working with is where a device in the = Bulk > Electric System (BES) has been acquired and deployed, that contains a > firmware component. A patch has been distributed for that firmware and = a > grid operator wants to perform a risk assessment on the patch before = any > attempt at deployment.=20 >=20 > I'm still thinking that SUIT may be more appropriate than MUD for this = use > case, but I may be missing an important point. Can you provide a = distinction > between MUD and SUIT that would apply to the use case I describe, to = help me > understand your assertion that MUD may be more appropriate than SUIT?=20= >=20 > I genuinely just want to find the best solution to the problem I'm = trying to > solve, whatever that turns out to be. >=20 > Wonderful thing about standards, there are so many to choose from! >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Dick Brooks >=20 > Never trust software, always verify and report! T > http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com > Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com > Tel: +1 978-696-1788 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Richardson =20 > Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2020 8:32 PM > To: Hannes Tschofenig ; Dick Brooks > ; suit@ietf.org; 'Saad EL JAOUHARI' > ; Eliot Lear ; Henk Birkholz > > Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed = in > manifest? >=20 >=20 > Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >> * Finally, there is also a version condition. This allows to express >> that a manifest is applicable to one or multiple versions of the >> firmware. As described in the information model draft, this situation >> occurs when you upload an application that relies on existing = software >> to be present on the device. (Think of it as an API version.) >=20 >> It is important to note that the manifest is not meant to be used to >> describe the software running on the device. This is the job of other >> tools, such as COSWID. The manifest instead provides instructions on >> how to update firmware and to accomplish secure boot. >=20 > There are some efforts to include RFC8520 (MUD) definitions into the > Manifest, either by value or reference. (Henk!) >=20 > There are other efforts to include CoSWID into RFC8520, I think. > I may be mistaken as to the direction of the arrows here. >=20 > DB> I'm hoping to use the manifest as a virtual SBOM. Will let you = know > DB> if I'm successful in this regard. >=20 > The manifest could include a reference to a SBOM, but I don't think it = is > reasonable to to include it by value. I think that the right place to = get > the SBOM is via an RFC8520 (MUD) object. >=20 > I think that it would help if SUIT considered how some BCPs and/or > Applicability statements that helped to tie some things together. > (Specifically, from the charter: > This group will not define any new transport or discovery = mechanisms, > but may describe how to use existing mechanisms within the > architecture. > ) > A lot of Enterprises would like to cache all firmware contents = somewhere > locally, avoiding external access for devices. There is an overlap = here > with processes that might report on success updates, caching the new = SBOMs > into an audit system, etc. >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works = -=3D > IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Fri Jun 5 10:22:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BF973A0A36 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 10:22:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TpYQhV3K95ns for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 10:22:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D54873A09F4 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 10:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C1A75C00E0; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 13:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 05 Jun 2020 13:22:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=SVjwiYyRA64vfl+LXFnGWd9HqjnVKKEfln6SBB14T AE=; b=iQHZ9vCzir/ckymZw+i5rvi+jIbBBYb7uQBJMyIpbux19D+TCYs+E9vtA VBFn413Ryx4WbdSnxUHKC6rIl3DS1V4aNzxWwmjJxURZtIEA2X0/fgPj0tdP/v7F 84DXib881hv9VIQWVD6NEnoy1ETKvv/UFgx48XP8vK961pri/ADg2KcelD5aeODS 1p2fWoOnAVovZHoHnws8n7TFbTnPsx6hmo1CZ+BUpBorjCM+54t7C4/KMD4d6ceX 3KJnC9Hphmk1PS4HKKrgiwgDaMmsAP4agbv02w9vkqAZy3nm7RI7QX+USFFVsqIp OIRD84TPcMtiV8ZylFyc3RvwfWMxw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudegfedgleekucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhephffvfhgjufffohfkgggtgffothesthhqredtvddtjeenucfhrhhomhepfdff ihgtkhcuuehrohhokhhsfdcuoeguihgtkhesrhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrg hlhihtihgtshdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepjeetffetfeduieelhfelieef vefgfeevgeetledttefhuefggfffhfehveeluefgnecuffhomhgrihhnpehrvghlihgrsg hlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihthhitghsrdgtohhmnecukfhppedvudeirdduleefrddu gedvrddvvdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhroh hmpeguihgtkhesrhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from farpoint (unknown [216.193.142.22]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 069B5328005E; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 13:22:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: "'Eliot Lear'" Cc: "'Michael Richardson'" , "'Hannes Tschofenig'" , , "'Saad EL JAOUHARI'" , "'Henk Birkholz'" References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 13:22:11 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <11b6b01d63b5d$db8f5790$92ae06b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQEpJGg3Q76y3b59AZfDOO6eGr7fRAJUo0s2Am+d4lkB06Pk1ADWaYOUAhdO83Cp2ERBQA== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2020 17:22:20 -0000 Thanks, Eliot. JSON is a fine medium.=20 Will the MUD/JSON blob exist within the same sphere of provenance as the = actual software object it describes? The chain of trust is key for both = the software/firmware object and it's MUD metadata. Ideally the = integrity and authenticity "lock" covers both objects.=20 Thanks, Dick Brooks Never trust software, always verify and report! =E2=84=A2 http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 -----Original Message----- From: Eliot Lear =20 Sent: Friday, June 05, 2020 12:15 PM To: Dick Brooks Cc: Michael Richardson ; Hannes Tschofenig = ; suit@ietf.org; Saad EL JAOUHARI = ; Henk Birkholz Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in = manifest? Dick, Think of MUD as nothing more than a JSON blob that points at things or = otherwise provides guidance to the deployment about the device. = It=E2=80=99s quite generic. One of the things it can point to is how to = retrieve a software bill of materials. Another thing it can point to is = a list of certifications. If JSON scares you, it wouldn=E2=80=99t be = that hard to serialize into CBOR. Eliot > On 5 Jun 2020, at 15:11, Dick Brooks = wrote: >=20 > Thanks, Michael Richardson. I'm uncertain that MUD has exactly what=20 > I'm looking for to meet NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 expectations,=20 > after a cursory look at the standard. I don't see where the MUD=20 > process would support deep introspection and corroborating evidence=20 > within a risk assessment control prior to deployment, which is what I=20 > need for NERC CIP-010-3. The base case I'm working with is where a=20 > device in the Bulk Electric System (BES) has been acquired and=20 > deployed, that contains a firmware component. A patch has been=20 > distributed for that firmware and a grid operator wants to perform a=20 > risk assessment on the patch before any attempt at deployment. >=20 > I'm still thinking that SUIT may be more appropriate than MUD for this = > use case, but I may be missing an important point. Can you provide a=20 > distinction between MUD and SUIT that would apply to the use case I=20 > describe, to help me understand your assertion that MUD may be more = appropriate than SUIT? >=20 > I genuinely just want to find the best solution to the problem I'm=20 > trying to solve, whatever that turns out to be. >=20 > Wonderful thing about standards, there are so many to choose from! >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Dick Brooks >=20 > Never trust software, always verify and report! T=20 > http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com > Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com > Tel: +1 978-696-1788 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Richardson > Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2020 8:32 PM > To: Hannes Tschofenig ; Dick Brooks=20 > ; suit@ietf.org; 'Saad EL JAOUHARI' > ; Eliot Lear ; Henk Birkholz=20 > > Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed=20 > in manifest? >=20 >=20 > Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >> * Finally, there is also a version condition. This allows to express=20 >> that a manifest is applicable to one or multiple versions of the=20 >> firmware. As described in the information model draft, this situation = >> occurs when you upload an application that relies on existing=20 >> software to be present on the device. (Think of it as an API=20 >> version.) >=20 >> It is important to note that the manifest is not meant to be used to=20 >> describe the software running on the device. This is the job of other = >> tools, such as COSWID. The manifest instead provides instructions on=20 >> how to update firmware and to accomplish secure boot. >=20 > There are some efforts to include RFC8520 (MUD) definitions into the=20 > Manifest, either by value or reference. (Henk!) >=20 > There are other efforts to include CoSWID into RFC8520, I think. > I may be mistaken as to the direction of the arrows here. >=20 > DB> I'm hoping to use the manifest as a virtual SBOM. Will let you = know > DB> if I'm successful in this regard. >=20 > The manifest could include a reference to a SBOM, but I don't think it = > is reasonable to to include it by value. I think that the right place = > to get the SBOM is via an RFC8520 (MUD) object. >=20 > I think that it would help if SUIT considered how some BCPs and/or=20 > Applicability statements that helped to tie some things together. > (Specifically, from the charter: > This group will not define any new transport or discovery = mechanisms, > but may describe how to use existing mechanisms within the=20 > architecture. > ) > A lot of Enterprises would like to cache all firmware contents=20 > somewhere locally, avoiding external access for devices. There is an=20 > overlap here with processes that might report on success updates,=20 > caching the new SBOMs into an audit system, etc. >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works =20 > -=3D > IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Fri Jun 5 10:31:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C922A3A0A79 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 10:31:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=UQFhB5c9; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=UQFhB5c9 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OKCn-Og0BrEr for ; 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dGFjaG1lbnRzIGFyZSBjb25maWRlbnRpYWwgYW5kIG1heSBhbHNvIGJlIHByaXZpbGVnZWQuIElm IHlvdSBhcmUgbm90IHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCByZWNpcGllbnQsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkgdGhlIHNl bmRlciBpbW1lZGlhdGVseSBhbmQgZG8gbm90IGRpc2Nsb3NlIHRoZSBjb250ZW50cyB0byBhbnkg b3RoZXIgcGVyc29uLCB1c2UgaXQgZm9yIGFueSBwdXJwb3NlLCBvciBzdG9yZSBvciBjb3B5IHRo ZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBpbiBhbnkgbWVkaXVtLiBUaGFuayB5b3UuDQo= From nobody Fri Jun 5 10:36:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C38C3A0B1A for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 10:36:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 210VKGtoniS5 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 10:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F401C3A0B14 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 10:36:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92F9A38A26; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 13:34:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id GSexhvItkTIR; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 13:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE98138A18; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 13:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ED942B3; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 13:36:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "Dick Brooks" cc: "'Hannes Tschofenig'" , suit@ietf.org, "'Saad EL JAOUHARI'" , "'Eliot Lear'" , "'Henk Birkholz'" In-Reply-To: <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2020 17:36:33 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Dick Brooks wrote: > Thanks, Michael Richardson. I'm uncertain that MUD has exactly what I'm > looking for to meet NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 expectations, after a > cursory look at the standard. I don't see where the MUD process would > support deep introspection and corroborating evidence within a risk > assessment control prior to deployment, which is what I need for NERC > CIP-010-3. It does not offer any of those things. It offers an attribute/value mechanism signed by the manufacturer, possibly specific to a given firmware revision, in which you can put a pointer to some kind of SBOM that would provide you the right information. We can also do this from the SUIT Manifest, but I suspect that the extra layer of indirection will benefit the ecosystems. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl7agpwACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVNBAf/VfhTL7eSWS796yvU+lyqdv+ieSz2WrTn6moCwt51rKcsVVZ9KFAqzX5n vxqaAUNxC6PnwpYrG9xnK4pxqDIX9DVpQOqkq4PQBBwlO941HHeBYGY2cytkartN mCKUoLFJbgXnBuJ4n2q/tHUJbrBvMa60FXWut25tDomvMglqdsGmyMNUbsffr2KN 4irnWdPQ3sK0vSrQZ73tXQvwOEeiM8yxZWSBtd9RL/EeiagCUXrfcINiGnc/LQQF KtYsIZ3/kNUIob3D03ACnIgHR9sBn+yN17eqYP0GxSK25y7Zp2PzSp+pjIHp0Esv US1B9exa+Svw1bT50RDcgbdi2XHy1A== =stsJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Jun 5 10:41:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 645493A0C63 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 10:41:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KfGhzGNkHQY5 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 10:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6173E3A0C0B for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 10:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C8B5C01EF; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 13:41:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 05 Jun 2020 13:41:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=xHgM2sQjZYPfMhol2hUhjt1xNFnMWbTYVmcZatkqy Os=; b=MV5U2rP8Mf9J4E3X3RRg6QJQ5CazZtJ10rAnv+Udw+Xr2rLMOe/4FdDaT PpEnRg8Nw4BjLD19Axozwsd5InydpQv8r8u9RMqVdoQkSwHF/MBHjm3Vz7s4y9XQ monb32TnLt9n1hsGUNtJ6PI8xUtM/GPMyRQBjcUU5Dsm6Bt5XyC/pLxLRFBiUGSA 0WYss0c260zyzZuldgTJe/WfL0q6wpGTlkB8ZYw5a75pUtuu0bqyqZHbqNv9TYy3 DDY0Y2IVOvcIkPX+UbYEQeYD1VmhKJzl5zHYCD2Ps7Tc+5vvJ8EMvft5vGaAyfrQ 0K29HuKHJgRUi6oAYa12j0w76MqjQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudegfedguddtvdcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefhvfhfjgfuffhokfggtgfgofhtsehtjeertddvtddvnecuhfhrohhmpedf ffhitghkuceurhhoohhkshdfuceoughitghksehrvghlihgrsghlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnh grlhihthhitghsrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpedvjeduieeghedutdekvdet hfdukeekheelieeggffgvdfgjeelkeefgfelgeefleenucffohhmrghinheprhgvlhhirg gslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomhenucfkphepvdduiedrudelfedr udegvddrvddvnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrh homhepughitghksehrvghlihgrsghlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihthhitghsrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Received: from farpoint (unknown [216.193.142.22]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id CA2D93280063; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 13:41:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: "'Michael Richardson'" Cc: "'Hannes Tschofenig'" , , "'Saad EL JAOUHARI'" , "'Eliot Lear'" , "'Henk Birkholz'" References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <11051.1591378588@localhost> In-Reply-To: <11051.1591378588@localhost> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 13:41:18 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <11c4101d63b60$8a2136a0$9e63a3e0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQEpJGg3Q76y3b59AZfDOO6eGr7fRAJUo0s2Am+d4lkB06Pk1ADWaYOUAe4xceOp2ZN+0A== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2020 17:41:38 -0000 Thank you, Michael. I need to think through this a bit more. Thanks to all for your insights. Thanks, Dick Brooks Never trust software, always verify and report! T http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 -----Original Message----- From: Michael Richardson Sent: Friday, June 05, 2020 1:36 PM To: Dick Brooks Cc: 'Hannes Tschofenig' ; suit@ietf.org; 'Saad EL JAOUHARI' ; 'Eliot Lear' ; 'Henk Birkholz' Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? Dick Brooks wrote: > Thanks, Michael Richardson. I'm uncertain that MUD has exactly what I'm > looking for to meet NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 expectations, after a > cursory look at the standard. I don't see where the MUD process would > support deep introspection and corroborating evidence within a risk > assessment control prior to deployment, which is what I need for NERC > CIP-010-3. It does not offer any of those things. It offers an attribute/value mechanism signed by the manufacturer, possibly specific to a given firmware revision, in which you can put a pointer to some kind of SBOM that would provide you the right information. We can also do this from the SUIT Manifest, but I suspect that the extra layer of indirection will benefit the ecosystems. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- From nobody Fri Jun 5 14:38:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9E3D3A0E4C for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 14:37:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8I9sL4Xq64OS for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 14:37:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 094DC3A0E3D for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 14:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FF6538A54; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 17:35:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id rkszCX6hrv4y; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 17:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC8B389FE; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 17:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FFD52B3; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 17:37:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Hannes Tschofenig cc: Eliot Lear , Dick Brooks , "suit\@ietf.org" , Saad EL JAOUHARI , Henk Birkholz In-Reply-To: References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2020 21:38:00 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > FWIW I thought that COSWID would provide information about the software > libraries on a device. No, AFAIK, it just identifies the materials. (i.e. "libcurl 1.0.2") Assembling them into a BOM requires another process: "curl 1.0.2" contains "libcurl 1.0.2", "curl-main", "libssl 1.1.1f", "glibc 2.19", "pcre 1.0.2" I could mis-understand though. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl7auzEACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUvgAf6ApTgdS6SoY+lKiZMuuxgBXjtAPYxWTB1LALWIrrKnD90Y7muhy64wn3M 1TilPXCbZ4i2fIKpib7laBz2tkiCAQZDqbhxfxppBI9tU4e8A5y1oQG/Fp8BISXJ gRAMBy5fJts0jTHn9x0RN5ZcpnwVh0OUjserFsgYB5QKwWxiojdxfvlwwbU+s/uc QHp/vxa9geXpqI3SnFHTRHZlMbFGDJ8uxwawEvMbhClutwrpmm5bMdGyRN0wwuWD xdsuQ8odQnLHhjvPD0T1Lq6x3C5abgi7sV1ZoSlViJYBw//JlvC3eV3L9IL153jF 4u2DMDEeh4qU7DKv+hBe9XpG91IMWg== =WOdd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Jun 5 14:55:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E8123A0EA0 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 14:55:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8J-OnlCZmVzh for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 14:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35D503A0E9B for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 14:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F6765C0095; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 17:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 05 Jun 2020 17:55:20 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=ek5pUS9FGm/BZ5j19Fqjsu0TrL+JmTjW5lXBPXNkf W8=; b=r5ilwtsC6BmuK2pPfEL0kaIk0v1vX7Prk8z+lGAyvYDun1HaKAQIk/t/D HDIQrDq4l7i00hoZCdUgUwNETnIzIxl6mQ8Po6vGB7F5nC5AhHKRm3AnFDcpxa5J YtoIkCN25+EYfePwqUq298WpDt1bfAO9HiExg9/ARirKirRfsY/p7HLiZJwkFxkD NAhR73GvmzT/3oVjnabqcCu2qtINIrobDkMlIeu0j0Y/4qWJ8ezZ0u+f6SAAPz4I wkYWOw1fQyqkDk8jEarGgFMlrF0CH3qHz7cZ0Elhy1fZ91WMj6uDNtNkKryMPGYJ 9LYN7DJZPr1vgSB5Z4nOk8iDwRW4g== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudeggecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurf hrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecuuegr ihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjug hrpefhvfhfjgfuffhokfggtgfgofhtsehtjeertddvtddvnecuhfhrohhmpedfffhitghk uceurhhoohhkshdfuceoughitghksehrvghlihgrsghlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihth hitghsrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeehteevveehueeitefhfeevffekteei uedvjeevveejheffteekieefieffledtheenucffohhmrghinheprhgvlhhirggslhgvvg hnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomhdpshgrnhguvghlmhgrnhdrtggrnecukfhp pedvudeirdduleefrddugedvrddvvdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrh grmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeguihgtkhesrhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrghl hihtihgtshdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from farpoint (unknown [216.193.142.22]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 204F3328005D; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 17:55:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: "'Michael Richardson'" , "'Hannes Tschofenig'" Cc: "'Eliot Lear'" , , "'Saad EL JAOUHARI'" , "'Henk Birkholz'" References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <5820.1591393073@localhost> In-Reply-To: <5820.1591393073@localhost> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 17:55:15 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <12c0e01d63b84$00bff3f0$023fdbd0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQEpJGg3Q76y3b59AZfDOO6eGr7fRAJUo0s2Am+d4lkB06Pk1ADWaYOUAhdO83ACM65vWAF5pebOqbsmO+A= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2020 21:55:23 -0000 Here's an example of a "manufactured" SBOM that my SW creates today as part of a CIP-010-3 risk assessment, which I'm hoping to produce from a firmware object following SUIT/MUD: Performing program introspection for risks... *************** PROPERTIES ******************* ----> Manufacturer : Microsoft ----> ProductCode : {B6B7DDDB-1FF6-47F6-AB32-457052610E19} ----> ProductName : PowerToys (Preview) ----> ProductVersion : 0.15.2 *************** FILES AND COMPONENTS ******************* ----> Executable; FileName: ruguzy_l.exe|PowerToys.exe in module: powertoys_exe ----> Executable; FileName: h-ey7k2x.exe|PowerToysSettings.exe in module: settings_exe ----> Executable; FileName: syxida6a.dll|Notifications.dll in module: notifications_dll ----> Executable; FileName: _6j56zho.dll|shortcut_guide.dll in module: Module_ShortcutGuide ----> Executable; FileName: 3xugv-xs.dll|fancyzones.dll in module: Module_FancyZones ----> Executable; FileName: big0xqbx.dll|PowerRenameExt.dll in module: Module_PowerRename ----> Executable; FileName: bundle.js in module: settings_js_bundle ----> Executable; FileName: mdhcn61j.exe|FancyZonesEditor.exe in module: Module_FancyZones ----> Executable; FileName: 9bdoaowy.dll|ControlzEx.dll in module: Module_FancyZones ----> Executable; FileName: eb2enddq.dll|MahApps.Metro.dll in module: Module_FancyZones ----> Executable; FileName: p_v6yvui.dll|Microsoft.Xaml.Behaviors.dll in module: Module_FancyZones ----> Executable; FileName: jve_oxvy.dll|Microsoft.Bcl.AsyncInterfaces.dll in module: Module_FancyZones ----> Executable; FileName: qmwo-wq3.dll|System.Buffers.dll in module: Module_FancyZones ----> Executable; FileName: cmhozp3b.dll|System.Memory.dll in module: Module_FancyZones ----> Executable; FileName: dfjkhcy2.dll|System.Numerics.Vectors.dll in module: Module_FancyZones ----> Executable; FileName: p781ucha.dll|System.Runtime.CompilerServices.Unsafe.dll in module: Module_FancyZones ----> Executable; FileName: yrific62.dll|System.Text.Encodings.Web.dll in module: Module_FancyZones ----> Executable; FileName: dwnfqiw_.dll|System.Text.Json.dll in module: Module_FancyZones ----> Executable; FileName: fut-sab_.dll|System.Threading.Tasks.Extensions.dll in module: Module_FancyZones ----> Executable; FileName: 6cuycogx.dll|System.ValueTuple.dll in module: Module_FancyZones A trust score of: 86.0 has been calculated for this step. Do you wish to assign a passing grade (Y)/N? Thanks, Dick Brooks Never trust software, always verify and report! T http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 -----Original Message----- From: Michael Richardson Sent: Friday, June 05, 2020 5:38 PM To: Hannes Tschofenig Cc: Eliot Lear ; Dick Brooks ; suit@ietf.org; Saad EL JAOUHARI ; Henk Birkholz Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > FWIW I thought that COSWID would provide information about the software > libraries on a device. No, AFAIK, it just identifies the materials. (i.e. "libcurl 1.0.2") Assembling them into a BOM requires another process: "curl 1.0.2" contains "libcurl 1.0.2", "curl-main", "libssl 1.1.1f", "glibc 2.19", "pcre 1.0.2" I could mis-understand though. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ From nobody Sat Jun 6 01:19:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDBF73A0F48 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 01:19:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Sat, 6 Jun 2020 08:19:37 +0000 Received: from AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f5:e4d9:51ff:eae]) by AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f5:e4d9:51ff:eae%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3066.022; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 08:19:37 +0000 From: Hannes Tschofenig To: Michael Richardson CC: Eliot Lear , Dick Brooks , "suit@ietf.org" , Saad EL JAOUHARI , Henk Birkholz Thread-Topic: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? Thread-Index: AdY5iIX3N33NtGULTtOAukxF+Y4+yAAR9vKAAC3Wx2AAEkCYgAAahNIAAAZpzwAAAp+aoAAIpk6AABYvlVA= Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2020 08:19:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <5820.1591393073@localhost> In-Reply-To: <5820.1591393073@localhost> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ts-tracking-id: c1c1ee65-9aa0-4ab9-adf8-3b705455a6ee.0 x-checkrecipientchecked: true Authentication-Results-Original: sandelman.ca; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; sandelman.ca; dmarc=none action=none header.from=arm.com; x-originating-ip: [156.67.194.193] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-HT: Tenant X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: f18e0529-aa40-4172-bf5b-08d809f25e85 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR08MB3684:|VI1PR0802MB2304: X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: x-checkrecipientrouted: true nodisclaimer: true x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6430;OLM:8273; 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Ip=[63.35.35.123]; Helo=[64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR0802MB2304 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2020 08:19:51 -0000 I think the BOM terminology is misleading because hardware is not software.= The bill of material to produce an IoT product typically does not change (= unless you desolder parts) while the software and configuration will regula= rly change. Leaving that aside, I believe someone active in COSWID needs to clarify wha= t COSWID does. My understanding was that it documents the software librarie= s on devices. Whether it would be " libcurl 1.0.2" alone or all the librari= es that are used to build "libcurl 1.0.2" is a granularity question that th= e COSWID specs should / could also answer. That's why I thought it would be= useful to have it included in the manifest (as supplementary information; = as a severable field). If COSWID does not do this then someone needs to explain to me what purpose= it serves. Ciao Hannes -----Original Message----- From: Michael Richardson Sent: Friday, June 5, 2020 11:38 PM To: Hannes Tschofenig Cc: Eliot Lear ; Dick Brooks ; suit@ietf.org; Saad EL JAOUHARI ; Henk Birkholz= Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in man= ifest? Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > FWIW I thought that COSWID would provide information about the softwa= re > libraries on a device. No, AFAIK, it just identifies the materials. (i.e. "libcurl 1.0.2") Assembling them into a BOM requires another process: "curl 1.0.2" contains "libcurl 1.0.2", "curl-main", "libssl 1.1.1f", "glibc 2.19", "pcre 1.0.2" I could mis-understand though. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect = [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [ IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. From nobody Sat Jun 6 02:04:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC143A0FBF for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 02:04:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aZCYKUGczAH1 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 02:04:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7182D3A0FBA for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 02:04:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=39996; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1591434241; x=1592643841; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=RwRZq7XeDnu9zV8GqUel0P6uzg4VeETF3gdwDDYy47I=; b=cN1SXij0q2wXjIWM1d3DIPQSb6hNHlyXsBjCPqOmiUbYhpftVv759TBD ssAoNRaIpKwgNH59gEfuGR5kXvR8tWjMcF/HDDcL/Dz4PrCBYyHkfTnFk 6I4wzCQiKGIR5XLTI3Bpu6OOxMBGZ9KP9M9S3X0epkUAE56PEYu+gX5zp s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0A+AwDhWtte/xbLJq1mHAEBAQEBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?BARIBAQQEAQGCCoEjWIEfVAEgEiyEJIkBiAiBAYh+kBWBaAsBAQEMAQEjDAQ?= =?us-ascii?q?BAYFQgnQCgjUlOBMCAwEBCwEBBQEBAQIBBgRthVsMhXIBAQEBAgEjTQkFBwQ?= =?us-ascii?q?LEQQBAQEgAQYDAgIhJQkIBhODJgGCSwMOIA+vY3aBMoVRgwkNgiKBOIswgTm?= =?us-ascii?q?CACZrJxyBT0kHLj6BfiCBewESAYM1M4ItBI5eMxyjZyRMgmOCfYIOji9lhGQ?= =?us-ascii?q?DHYJoNYhdgzaBOI1ijmQDjmmNcoNNAgQGBQIVgWoiQyNwMxoIGxVlAYI+CTU?= =?us-ascii?q?SGQ2QTBeBAwECgXWCU4hZPwMwAjUCBgEHAQEDCZAVAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.73,479,1583193600"; d="scan'208,217"; a="26819288" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 06 Jun 2020 09:03:57 +0000 Received: from [10.61.199.107] ([10.61.199.107]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 05693sYx017360 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 6 Jun 2020 09:03:55 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <04B8CB97-9BB2-49CC-A3EB-875596C1B134@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_30AA7F1B-56CB-444B-BB9B-D942054AE99A" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2020 11:03:54 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Michael Richardson , Dick Brooks , "suit@ietf.org" , Henk Birkholz To: Hannes Tschofenig References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <5820.1591393073@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.199.107, [10.61.199.107] X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2020 09:04:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_30AA7F1B-56CB-444B-BB9B-D942054AE99A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 The NTIA is conducting an effort relatied to this known as SBOM = (Software Bill of Materials). They are in trials with healthcare = delivery organizations (HDOs) medical device manufacturers (MDMs) and = software providers, including people from the Linux Foundation. There = are several different formats discussed, including Software ID Tags = (SWID) (ISO-19770) and Software Package Data Exchange (SPDX) which looks = very much like what you showed, Dick. NTIA takes no position on what = formats are used. NIST is planning to move toward SWID as they = transition away from the structure used in the National Vulnerability = Database (NVD). I take no position on which of these formats is better, = so long as a downstream consumer can easily determine which format is = being presented ;-) The goal of SBOM is to provide transparency throughout the supply chain = as to what is running on an IoT device. SBOMs at a minimum are intended = to provide a manifest, and then optionally some additional stuff like a = dependency graph, licensing information, and maybe some additional = security attributes such as access requirements, and links assertions = about whether a particular component has a vulnerability or has been = patched. The US FDA is planning to require SBOMs as a part of pre-sales = qualification. There are great many open issues with regard to SBOMs, some of which = this group and the TEEP folk may wish to pursue. The biggest issue is = around naming. When referring to Java, is that com.sun.java or = com.oracle.java or does it matter? When referring to a supplier, is = that IBM or Red Hat (or if it=E2=80=99s REALLY old software, Cygnus)? A similar issue arises with versioning. Is that openssl 1.0.1 version = patched or unpatched and how does one know? Another issue is how an SBOM is retrieved. What is its well known = location? Does the BOM reside on the device, and is there an interface = to retrieve it? If not, where else is it? Is it even retrievable? = Does it require permissions to do so if it resides at a vendor locale, = and if so, how is versioning managed? This is the basis for draft-lear-opsawg-mud-sbom-00.txt that Scott Rose = from NIST and I put together, and would like to present at opsawg. The = goal of that draft is simply a means o discovery to determine how to = retrieve an SBOM. An example of how one would use this extension for an = on-the-box approach in its simplest form would be that the manufacturer = advertises a RESTful interface at /.well-known/sbom and returns its = favorite format (let=E2=80=99s say SPDX). The back end interface could = be as simple as =E2=80=98cat /var/lib/dkpg/installed=E2=80=99 or perhaps = a bit more complex using a more secure interface to retrieve a signed = manifest. Anyway, I provide this information mostly without fully understanding = the context here, but it seems relevant, given the line of discussion. = NTIA project information can be found at = https://www.ntia.doc.gov/SoftwareTransparency. Eliot > On 6 Jun 2020, at 10:19, Hannes Tschofenig = wrote: >=20 > I think the BOM terminology is misleading because hardware is not = software. The bill of material to produce an IoT product typically does = not change (unless you desolder parts) while the software and = configuration will regularly change. >=20 > Leaving that aside, I believe someone active in COSWID needs to = clarify what COSWID does. My understanding was that it documents the = software libraries on devices. Whether it would be " libcurl 1.0.2" = alone or all the libraries that are used to build "libcurl 1.0.2" is a = granularity question that the COSWID specs should / could also answer. = That's why I thought it would be useful to have it included in the = manifest (as supplementary information; as a severable field). >=20 > If COSWID does not do this then someone needs to explain to me what = purpose it serves. >=20 > Ciao > Hannes >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Richardson > > Sent: Friday, June 5, 2020 11:38 PM > To: Hannes Tschofenig > > Cc: Eliot Lear >; Dick Brooks = >; suit@ietf.org = ; Saad EL JAOUHARI >; Henk Birkholz = > > Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed = in manifest? >=20 >=20 > Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >> FWIW I thought that COSWID would provide information about the = software >> libraries on a device. >=20 > No, AFAIK, it just identifies the materials. (i.e. "libcurl 1.0.2") >=20 > Assembling them into a BOM requires another process: > "curl 1.0.2" contains "libcurl 1.0.2", "curl-main", > "libssl 1.1.1f", "glibc 2.19", "pcre 1.0.2" >=20 > I could mis-understand though. >=20 > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh = networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT = architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on = rails [ >=20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. --Apple-Mail=_30AA7F1B-56CB-444B-BB9B-D942054AE99A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 The = NTIA is conducting an effort relatied to this known as SBOM (Software = Bill of Materials).  They are in trials with healthcare delivery = organizations (HDOs) medical device manufacturers (MDMs) and software = providers, including people from the Linux Foundation.  There are = several different formats discussed, including Software ID Tags (SWID) = (ISO-19770) and Software Package Data Exchange (SPDX) which looks very = much like what you showed, Dick.  NTIA takes no position on what = formats are used.  NIST is planning to move toward SWID as they = transition away from the structure used in the National Vulnerability = Database (NVD).  I take no position on which of these formats is = better, so long as a downstream consumer can easily determine which = format is being presented ;-)

The goal of SBOM is to provide transparency throughout the = supply chain as to what is running on an IoT device.  SBOMs at a = minimum are intended to provide a manifest, and then optionally some = additional stuff like a dependency graph, licensing information, and = maybe some additional security attributes such as access requirements, = and links assertions about whether a particular component has a = vulnerability or has been patched.

The US FDA is planning to require SBOMs = as a part of pre-sales qualification.

There are great many open issues with = regard to SBOMs, some of which this group and the TEEP folk may wish to = pursue.  The biggest issue is around naming.  When referring = to Java, is that com.sun.java or com.oracle.java or does it matter? =  When referring to a supplier, is that IBM or Red Hat (or if it=E2=80= =99s REALLY old software, Cygnus)?

A similar issue arises with versioning. =  Is that openssl 1.0.1 version patched or unpatched and how does = one know?

Another issue is how an SBOM is retrieved.  What is its = well known location?  Does the BOM reside on the device, and is = there an interface to retrieve it?  If not, where else is it? =  Is it even retrievable?  Does it require permissions to do so = if it resides at a vendor locale, and if so, how is versioning = managed?

This = is the basis for draft-lear-opsawg-mud-sbom-00.txt that Scott Rose from = NIST and I put together, and would like to present at opsawg.  The = goal of that draft is simply a means o discovery to determine how to = retrieve an SBOM.  An example of how one would use this extension = for an on-the-box approach in its simplest form would be that the = manufacturer advertises a RESTful interface at /.well-known/sbom and = returns its favorite format (let=E2=80=99s say SPDX).  The back end = interface could be as simple as =E2=80=98cat /var/lib/dkpg/installed=E2=80= =99 or perhaps a bit more complex using a more secure interface to = retrieve a signed manifest.

Anyway, I provide this information mostly without fully = understanding the context here, but it seems relevant, given the line of = discussion.  NTIA project information can be found at https://www.ntia.doc.gov/SoftwareTransparency.

Eliot


On 6 Jun = 2020, at 10:19, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> wrote:

I think the BOM terminology is = misleading because hardware is not software. The bill of material to = produce an IoT product typically does not change (unless you desolder = parts) while the software and configuration will regularly = change.

Leaving that = aside, I believe someone active in COSWID needs to clarify what COSWID = does. My understanding was that it documents the software libraries on = devices. Whether it would be " libcurl 1.0.2" alone or all the libraries = that are used to build "libcurl 1.0.2" is a granularity question that = the COSWID specs should / could also answer. That's why I thought it = would be useful to have it included in the manifest (as supplementary = information; as a severable field).

If COSWID does not do this then someone needs to explain to = me what purpose it serves.

Ciao
Hannes

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca>
Sent: Friday, June 5, 2020 11:38 = PM
To: Hannes = Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
Cc: Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>; Dick Brooks <dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com>; suit@ietf.org; Saad EL JAOUHARI <saadeljaou@gmail.com>; Henk Birkholz = <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions = expressed in manifest?


Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> wrote:
FWIW = I thought that COSWID would provide information about the software
libraries on a device.

No, AFAIK, it just identifies = the materials. (i.e. "libcurl 1.0.2")

Assembling them into a BOM requires another = process:
 "curl = 1.0.2" contains "libcurl 1.0.2", "curl-main",
          &nb= sp;            = ;"libssl 1.1.1f", "glibc 2.19", "pcre 1.0.2"

I could mis-understand = though.

--
] =             &n= bsp; Never tell me the odds! =             &n= bsp;   | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Michael = Richardson, Sandelman Software Works =        |    IoT = architect   [
]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/ =        |   ruby on rails =    [

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DAcqXuqJmLi9hIlJYPN/4J4qFxj/CKCHKm/w52XTGkcJf0/iTZfZpU/p0y8DSX8g dUMo/zEgIVaLx0Ijo8ahWp1x6OhIsVYuA+bZafb/ru8kPZHG3c0GjtPahIxK7osP 5BSLjQQdYw8Y3R9indCHMOv14I7wQif/y60U7MmHevOv3KOzM3nh87r5iSsDhZvf C0covBtz5YnIa9Yw+n9clzrcl/pwvTmZumj/Myy6KHJtM5qEMA28MBjvdRl8W3wA BC2+rjcwrVo2TIVoUMbA8Z7D2+rnVIFQA3H+CzshOk4JfiRlBj3QJsXQvaiP31Tg == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudeghedgjeegucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne gfrhhlucfvnfffucdlqdegmdenucfjughrpefhvfhfjgfuffhokfggtgfothesrhdtreep vddtjeenucfhrhhomhepfdffihgtkhcuuehrohhokhhsfdcuoeguihgtkhesrhgvlhhirg gslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhep feehheejjeelkefgheeihfelueejjeelteetkedttdeiteevfeevgfffieffiedunecuff homhgrihhnpehrvghlihgrsghlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihthhitghsrdgtohhmpdhs uhhnrdhjrghvrgdpughotgdrghhovhenucfkphepvdduiedrudelfedrudegvddrvddvne cuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepughitghk sehrvghlihgrsghlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihthhitghsrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Received: from farpoint (unknown [216.193.142.22]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 59D833280065; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 09:52:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: "'Eliot Lear'" , "'Hannes Tschofenig'" Cc: "'Michael Richardson'" , , "'Henk Birkholz'" References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <5820.1591393073@localhost> <04B8CB97-9BB2-49CC-A3EB-875596C1B134@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <04B8CB97-9BB2-49CC-A3EB-875596C1B134@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2020 09:52:47 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <157a601d63c09$c4dd2d90$4e9788b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_157A7_01D63BE8.3DCE9AD0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQEpJGg3Q76y3b59AZfDOO6eGr7fRAJUo0s2Am+d4lkB06Pk1ADWaYOUAhdO83ACM65vWAF5pebOAo/piAQB3DbXe6mY0a7g Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2020 13:52:56 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_157A7_01D63BE8.3DCE9AD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_157A8_01D63BE8.3DCE9AD0" ------=_NextPart_001_157A8_01D63BE8.3DCE9AD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you, Eliot. That was very insightful and useful. I=E2=80=99ll = check out the ntia work =E2=80=93 looks promising. =20 Thanks, =20 Dick Brooks Never trust software, = always verify and report! =E2=84=A2 = http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: = dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 =20 From: Eliot Lear =20 Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2020 5:04 AM To: Hannes Tschofenig Cc: Michael Richardson ; Dick Brooks = ; suit@ietf.org; Henk Birkholz = Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in = manifest? =20 The NTIA is conducting an effort relatied to this known as SBOM = (Software Bill of Materials). They are in trials with healthcare = delivery organizations (HDOs) medical device manufacturers (MDMs) and = software providers, including people from the Linux Foundation. There = are several different formats discussed, including Software ID Tags = (SWID) (ISO-19770) and Software Package Data Exchange (SPDX) which looks = very much like what you showed, Dick. NTIA takes no position on what = formats are used. NIST is planning to move toward SWID as they = transition away from the structure used in the National Vulnerability = Database (NVD). I take no position on which of these formats is better, = so long as a downstream consumer can easily determine which format is = being presented ;-) =20 The goal of SBOM is to provide transparency throughout the supply chain = as to what is running on an IoT device. SBOMs at a minimum are intended = to provide a manifest, and then optionally some additional stuff like a = dependency graph, licensing information, and maybe some additional = security attributes such as access requirements, and links assertions = about whether a particular component has a vulnerability or has been = patched. =20 The US FDA is planning to require SBOMs as a part of pre-sales = qualification. =20 There are great many open issues with regard to SBOMs, some of which = this group and the TEEP folk may wish to pursue. The biggest issue is = around naming. When referring to Java, is that com.sun.java or = com.oracle.java or does it matter? When referring to a supplier, is = that IBM or Red Hat (or if it=E2=80=99s REALLY old software, Cygnus)? =20 A similar issue arises with versioning. Is that openssl 1.0.1 version = patched or unpatched and how does one know? =20 Another issue is how an SBOM is retrieved. What is its well known = location? Does the BOM reside on the device, and is there an interface = to retrieve it? If not, where else is it? Is it even retrievable? = Does it require permissions to do so if it resides at a vendor locale, = and if so, how is versioning managed? =20 This is the basis for draft-lear-opsawg-mud-sbom-00.txt that Scott Rose = from NIST and I put together, and would like to present at opsawg. The = goal of that draft is simply a means o discovery to determine how to = retrieve an SBOM. An example of how one would use this extension for an = on-the-box approach in its simplest form would be that the manufacturer = advertises a RESTful interface at /.well-known/sbom and returns its = favorite format (let=E2=80=99s say SPDX). The back end interface could = be as simple as =E2=80=98cat /var/lib/dkpg/installed=E2=80=99 or perhaps = a bit more complex using a more secure interface to retrieve a signed = manifest. =20 Anyway, I provide this information mostly without fully understanding = the context here, but it seems relevant, given the line of discussion. = NTIA project information can be found at = https://www.ntia.doc.gov/SoftwareTransparency. =20 Eliot =20 On 6 Jun 2020, at 10:19, Hannes Tschofenig > wrote: =20 I think the BOM terminology is misleading because hardware is not = software. The bill of material to produce an IoT product typically does = not change (unless you desolder parts) while the software and = configuration will regularly change. Leaving that aside, I believe someone active in COSWID needs to clarify = what COSWID does. My understanding was that it documents the software = libraries on devices. Whether it would be " libcurl 1.0.2" alone or all = the libraries that are used to build "libcurl 1.0.2" is a granularity = question that the COSWID specs should / could also answer. That's why I = thought it would be useful to have it included in the manifest (as = supplementary information; as a severable field). If COSWID does not do this then someone needs to explain to me what = purpose it serves. Ciao Hannes -----Original Message----- From: Michael Richardson < mcr@sandelman.ca> Sent: Friday, June 5, 2020 11:38 PM To: Hannes Tschofenig < = Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> Cc: Eliot Lear < lear@cisco.com>; Dick Brooks < = = dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com>; = suit@ietf.org; Saad EL JAOUHARI < = saadeljaou@gmail.com>; Henk Birkholz < = = henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de> Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in = manifest? Hannes Tschofenig > wrote: FWIW I thought that COSWID would provide information about the software libraries on a device. No, AFAIK, it just identifies the materials. (i.e. "libcurl 1.0.2") Assembling them into a BOM requires another process: "curl 1.0.2" contains "libcurl 1.0.2", "curl-main", "libssl 1.1.1f", "glibc 2.19", "pcre 1.0.2" I could mis-understand though. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh = networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT = architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca = http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. =20 ------=_NextPart_001_157A8_01D63BE8.3DCE9AD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thank you, = Eliot. That was very insightful and useful. I=E2=80=99ll check out the = ntia work =E2=80=93 looks promising.

 

 

From: Eliot Lear = <lear@cisco.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2020 5:04 = AM
To: Hannes Tschofenig = <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
Cc: Michael Richardson = <mcr@sandelman.ca>; Dick Brooks = <dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com>; suit@ietf.org; Henk Birkholz = <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
Subject: Re: [Suit] = How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in = manifest?

 

The NTIA is = conducting an effort relatied to this known as SBOM (Software Bill of = Materials).  They are in trials with healthcare delivery = organizations (HDOs) medical device manufacturers (MDMs) and software = providers, including people from the Linux Foundation.  There are = several different formats discussed, including Software ID Tags (SWID) = (ISO-19770) and Software Package Data Exchange (SPDX) which looks very = much like what you showed, Dick.  NTIA takes no position on what = formats are used.  NIST is planning to move toward SWID as they = transition away from the structure used in the National Vulnerability = Database (NVD).  I take no position on which of these formats is = better, so long as a downstream consumer can easily determine which = format is being presented ;-)

 

The goal of SBOM is to provide transparency throughout = the supply chain as to what is running on an IoT device.  SBOMs at = a minimum are intended to provide a manifest, and then optionally some = additional stuff like a dependency graph, licensing information, and = maybe some additional security attributes such as access requirements, = and links assertions about whether a particular component has a = vulnerability or has been patched.

 

The US FDA is planning to require SBOMs as a part of = pre-sales qualification.

 

There are great many open issues with regard to SBOMs, = some of which this group and the TEEP folk may wish to pursue.  The = biggest issue is around naming.  When referring to Java, is that = com.sun.java or com.oracle.java or does it matter?  When referring = to a supplier, is that IBM or Red Hat (or if it=E2=80=99s REALLY old = software, Cygnus)?

 

A = similar issue arises with versioning.  Is that openssl 1.0.1 = version patched or unpatched and how does one = know?

 

Another issue is how an SBOM is retrieved.  What = is its well known location?  Does the BOM reside on the device, and = is there an interface to retrieve it?  If not, where else is it? =  Is it even retrievable?  Does it require permissions to do so = if it resides at a vendor locale, and if so, how is versioning = managed?

 

This is the basis for = draft-lear-opsawg-mud-sbom-00.txt that Scott Rose from NIST and I put = together, and would like to present at opsawg.  The goal of that = draft is simply a means o discovery to determine how to retrieve an = SBOM.  An example of how one would use this extension for an = on-the-box approach in its simplest form would be that the manufacturer = advertises a RESTful interface at /.well-known/sbom and returns its = favorite format (let=E2=80=99s say SPDX).  The back end interface = could be as simple as =E2=80=98cat /var/lib/dkpg/installed=E2=80=99 or = perhaps a bit more complex using a more secure interface to retrieve a = signed manifest.

 

Anyway, I provide this information mostly without = fully understanding the context here, but it seems relevant, given the = line of discussion.  NTIA project information can be found = at https://www.ntia.d= oc.gov/SoftwareTransparency.

 

Eliot

 



On 6 Jun 2020, at 10:19, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com&g= t; wrote:

 

I think = the BOM terminology is misleading because hardware is not software. The = bill of material to produce an IoT product typically does not change = (unless you desolder parts) while the software and configuration will = regularly change.

Leaving that aside, I believe someone active in = COSWID needs to clarify what COSWID does. My understanding was that it = documents the software libraries on devices. Whether it would be " = libcurl 1.0.2" alone or all the libraries that are used to build = "libcurl 1.0.2" is a granularity question that the COSWID = specs should / could also answer. That's why I thought it would be = useful to have it included in the manifest (as supplementary = information; as a severable field).

If COSWID does not do this = then someone needs to explain to me what purpose it = serves.

Ciao
Hannes

-----Original Message-----
From: = Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelm= an.ca>
Sen= t: Friday, June 5, 2020 11:38 PM
To: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tsch= ofenig@arm.com>
Cc:= Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.= com>; Dick = Brooks <dick@reliab= leenergyanalytics.com>; suit@ietf.o= rg; Saad EL = JAOUHARI <saadeljaou@= gmail.com>; Henk = Birkholz <henk.birkho= lz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
Sub= ject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in = manifest?


Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com&g= t; wrote:

FWIW I = thought that COSWID would provide information about the = software
libraries on a device.


No, = AFAIK, it just identifies the materials. (i.e. "libcurl = 1.0.2")

Assembling them into a BOM requires another = process:
 "curl 1.0.2" contains "libcurl = 1.0.2", = "curl-main",
        = ;            =    "libssl 1.1.1f", "glibc 2.19", = "pcre 1.0.2"

I could mis-understand = though.

--
] =             &= nbsp; Never tell me the odds! =             &= nbsp;   | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Michael = Richardson, Sandelman Software Works =        |    IoT = architect   [
]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/ =        |   ruby on rails =    [

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email = and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you = are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and = do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any = purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank = you.

 

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d="scan'208";a="114997275" Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de ([141.12.72.89]) by mail-mtaS26.fraunhofer.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 06 Jun 2020 19:00:32 +0200 Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-10) with ESMTPS id 056H0U1E012419 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Sat, 6 Jun 2020 19:00:30 +0200 Received: from [192.168.16.50] (79.234.115.101) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 19:00:24 +0200 To: Hannes Tschofenig , Eliot Lear CC: Michael Richardson , Dick Brooks , "suit@ietf.org" References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <5820.1591393073@localhost> <04B8CB97-9BB2-49CC-A3EB-875596C1B134@cisco.com> From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: <4dfd0498-85fb-fe94-11d5-66f1375126e8@sit.fraunhofer.de> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2020 19:00:24 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [79.234.115.101] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2020 17:00:46 -0000 Hi all, my comment preliminary about this is (as my previous comment seems to have been gobbled up by something) is basically this: Yes. In summary (my previous, gobbled up comment was more elaborate): * SBOM seems to be a sub-set of CoSWID, and * a co-author of CosSWID is a member of the NTIA SBOM group. Effectively, as I tried to post previously, I am looking at this: > Performing program introspection for risks... > *************** PROPERTIES ******************* > ----> Manufacturer : Microsoft > ----> ProductCode : {B6B7DDDB-1FF6-47F6-AB32-457052610E19} > ----> ProductName : PowerToys (Preview) > ----> ProductVersion : 0.15.2 > *************** FILES AND COMPONENTS ******************* > ----> Executable; FileName: ruguzy_l.exe|PowerToys.exe in module: > powertoys_exe > ----> Executable; FileName: h-ey7k2x.exe|PowerToysSettings.exe in module: > settings_exe > ----> Executable; FileName: syxida6a.dll|Notifications.dll in module: > notifications_dll I am rather sure that CoSWID can represent exactly this sub-set of of application context. In general, CoSWID are more on the semantic inter-operational side of things (in contrast of SBOM). In essnece, CoSWID can express this SBOM context. The question here is (,I think), if SBOM efforts intend to go down into this lane of representation context. We can talk more about this. But while CoSWID in fact incorporates the SBOM context, I wonder if the strict prescriptions of CoSWID are in fact appropriate for the rather loose context of expressiveness of SBOM. If your target of SBOM is - effectually - resilient and reliable post-processing, then CoSWID is seems to be a viable candidate. If your goal is to convey a rather unspecified set of software components via a loose set of attributes (which I think SBOM is all about today), CoSWID seems to be way too specific due to the corresponding goal of semantic interoperability. please correct me, if I am wrong here. Viele Grüße, Henk On 06.06.20 12:03, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > Thanks, Eliot. This is very useful background on the terminology. I have > hear about this NTIA effort but didn’t follow it. > > I am not surprised that you already wrote a draft about it. Thanks for > the pointer. > > Ciao > > Hannes > > PS: I am still wondering how COSWID fits into all of this now. > > *From:* Eliot Lear > *Sent:* Saturday, June 6, 2020 11:04 AM > *To:* Hannes Tschofenig > *Cc:* Michael Richardson ; Dick Brooks > ; suit@ietf.org; Henk Birkholz > > *Subject:* Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed > in manifest? > > The NTIA is conducting an effort relatied to this known as SBOM > (Software Bill of Materials).  They are in trials with healthcare > delivery organizations (HDOs) medical device manufacturers (MDMs) and > software providers, including people from the Linux Foundation.  There > are several different formats discussed, including Software ID Tags > (SWID) (ISO-19770) and Software Package Data Exchange (SPDX) which looks > very much like what you showed, Dick.  NTIA takes no position on what > formats are used.  NIST is planning to move toward SWID as they > transition away from the structure used in the National Vulnerability > Database (NVD).  I take no position on which of these formats is better, > so long as a downstream consumer can easily determine which format is > being presented ;-) > > The goal of SBOM is to provide transparency throughout the supply chain > as to what is running on an IoT device.  SBOMs at a minimum are intended > to provide a manifest, and then optionally some additional stuff like a > dependency graph, licensing information, and maybe some additional > security attributes such as access requirements, and links assertions > about whether a particular component has a vulnerability or has been > patched. > > The US FDA is planning to require SBOMs as a part of pre-sales > qualification. > > There are great many open issues with regard to SBOMs, some of which > this group and the TEEP folk may wish to pursue.  The biggest issue is > around naming.  When referring to Java, is that com.sun.java or > com.oracle.java or does it matter?  When referring to a supplier, is > that IBM or Red Hat (or if it’s REALLY old software, Cygnus)? > > A similar issue arises with versioning.  Is that openssl 1.0.1 version > patched or unpatched and how does one know? > > Another issue is how an SBOM is retrieved.  What is its well known > location?  Does the BOM reside on the device, and is there an interface > to retrieve it?  If not, where else is it?  Is it even retrievable? >  Does it require permissions to do so if it resides at a vendor locale, > and if so, how is versioning managed? > > This is the basis for draft-lear-opsawg-mud-sbom-00.txt that Scott Rose > from NIST and I put together, and would like to present at opsawg.  The > goal of that draft is simply a means o discovery to determine how to > retrieve an SBOM.  An example of how one would use this extension for an > on-the-box approach in its simplest form would be that the manufacturer > advertises a RESTful interface at /.well-known/sbom and returns its > favorite format (let’s say SPDX).  The back end interface could be as > simple as ‘cat /var/lib/dkpg/installed’ or perhaps a bit more complex > using a more secure interface to retrieve a signed manifest. > > Anyway, I provide this information mostly without fully understanding > the context here, but it seems relevant, given the line of discussion. >  NTIA project information can be found at > https://www.ntia.doc.gov/SoftwareTransparency. > > Eliot > > > > On 6 Jun 2020, at 10:19, Hannes Tschofenig > > wrote: > > I think the BOM terminology is misleading because hardware is not > software. The bill of material to produce an IoT product typically > does not change (unless you desolder parts) while the software and > configuration will regularly change. > > Leaving that aside, I believe someone active in COSWID needs to > clarify what COSWID does. My understanding was that it documents the > software libraries on devices. Whether it would be " libcurl 1.0.2" > alone or all the libraries that are used to build "libcurl 1.0.2" is > a granularity question that the COSWID specs should / could also > answer. That's why I thought it would be useful to have it included > in the manifest (as supplementary information; as a severable field). > > If COSWID does not do this then someone needs to explain to me what > purpose it serves. > > Ciao > Hannes > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Richardson > > Sent: Friday, June 5, 2020 11:38 PM > To: Hannes Tschofenig > > Cc: Eliot Lear >; Dick Brooks > >;suit@ietf.org > ; Saad EL JAOUHARI >; Henk Birkholz > > > Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed > in manifest? > > > Hannes Tschofenig > wrote: > > FWIW I thought that COSWID would provide information about the > software > libraries on a device. > > > No, AFAIK, it just identifies the materials. (i.e. "libcurl 1.0.2") > > Assembling them into a BOM requires another process: >  "curl 1.0.2" contains "libcurl 1.0.2", "curl-main", >                        "libssl 1.1.1f", "glibc 2.19", "pcre 1.0.2" > > I could mis-understand though. > > -- > ]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh > networks [ > ]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        |    IoT > architect   [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca > http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [ > > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose > the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store > or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. > > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the > contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy > the information in any medium. Thank you. From nobody Sat Jun 6 12:14:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5210A3A0A94 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 12:14:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TtNZqc5m1god for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 12:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B692B3A0A93 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 12:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id F09EC5C00B5; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 15:14:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 06 Jun 2020 15:14:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=4cRppwLwO/lRUP6mh6rCqOzav5qwltR6ImoEfxb49 Y4=; b=a5TaB3AKnahd8KdvgIArPt6rBZ606U5RaW7lhS0wSK3O8LvJ9McrRRRRx bjYvJAnJcUhPo/1Sw47s1H2q5j4VvXg6omiVUq3GUNH5f6toNQIRDNZ7ASOsg7ms 2n+ujNo4IeDA6F7rsYTbrJyfps+r0fwCNGQtPdvfXv1DXQOS0gbS5/zlLxBq20zl AQc0W8buSye3Sz8xI6zDfjdpOSPWUTXSRj+N821Gr5lJzgenC9wt6YTz3qs/y28i O0BehhCDilglTlNlXKGrAQK7j+uXIOGzMChxvM4poBXYQnQHavD4up1Pv/FUSjE3 ausHFkfPIP1hdbZIU74MRQzvmDr2Q== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudeghedgudegvdcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefhvfhfjgfuffhokfggtgfgofhtsehtqhertddvtdejnecuhfhrohhmpedf ffhitghkuceurhhoohhkshdfuceoughitghksehrvghlihgrsghlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnh grlhihthhitghsrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeejteffteefudeilefhleei feevgfefveegteeltdethfeugffgfffhheevleeugfenucffohhmrghinheprhgvlhhirg gslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomhenucfkphepvdduiedrudelfedr udegvddrvddvnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrh homhepughitghksehrvghlihgrsghlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihthhitghsrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Received: from farpoint (unknown [216.193.142.22]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1D8E03280059; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 15:14:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: "'Henk Birkholz'" , "'Hannes Tschofenig'" , "'Eliot Lear'" Cc: "'Michael Richardson'" , References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <5820.1591393073@localhost> <04B8CB97-9BB2-49CC-A3EB-875596C1B134@cisco.com> <4dfd0498-85fb-fe94-11d5-66f1375126e8@sit.fraunhofer.de> In-Reply-To: <4dfd0498-85fb-fe94-11d5-66f1375126e8@sit.fraunhofer.de> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2020 15:14:14 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <16b4c01d63c36$ad504db0$07f0e910$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQEpJGg3Q76y3b59AZfDOO6eGr7fRAJUo0s2Am+d4lkB06Pk1ADWaYOUAhdO83ACM65vWAF5pebOAo/piAQB3DbXewHtbRIsATZX7KGpf/ki4A== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2020 19:14:23 -0000 Henk, Thanks for raising the question of context, it goes directly to the = point of what purpose an SBOM serves. My case is very specific to performing US Bulk Electric System NERC = CIP0-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 software integrity and authenticity verification = using a risk assessment control function. I'm guessing that my = requirements may not represent the broader audience.=20 The main philosophical underpinnings of this risk assessment are:=20 - Collect corroborating evidence from data gathered throughout the risk = assessment to assign a trust score, called a SAGScore(TM) that enables a = party to make a risk based decision to install/not install a software = object; - A software object is presumed guilty until proven innocent;=20 - Never trust software, always verify and report!(TM) The risk assessment software introspection function uses the SBOM as the = baseline for establishing the product developer, product = name/identifier, version, release date and component parts that are = contained within the software object. This information is used to start = the investigation/risk assessment. Corroborating evidence confirming the = integrated file SBOM contents align with other information gathered = during procurement negotiations and other "ground truth", are used to = determine a trust score. The integral SBOM also aids in the = identification of malware and vulnerabilities that may be embedded in = the software object, which the original developer may not even be aware = of. I want the ability to initiate a vulnerability search using the SBOM = contents and this requires alignment of the SBOM metadata across CVE = databases and domains. CVE search engines have a very poor signal/noise ratio, based on my = experience. One vendor is starting a new vulnerability search operation, = Rapid 7 AttackerKB, that I've asked to include parameter based search = capabilities using an expressive language, i.e. sql, to search for vulns = using parameters such as component filename, product name, version = identifier, legal vendor name and source location URL, using data = obtained from an integrated SBOM. I'm hoping this will improve the = signal/noise ratio of CVE search results - don't know if this will be = delivered, but I have put in my wish list. Ideally values found in the = SBOM will align with those kept in the CVE databases. To summarize, I'm hoping to use a "integrated firmware level SBOM" as = the primary information source that must be validated and proven = trustworthy through the use of a corroborating evidence algorithm, = triangulated among several data sources, including CVE and "known = malware" databases.=20 I know some people are looking to use an SBOM in license management, but = that is not my case. I'm looking to keep bad software from being = installed in the US Bulk Electric System and the integrated SBOM of a = downloaded software object is my starting point for the risk assessment. Thanks to everyone that has contributed their time, talent, knowledge = and experience to this discussion; it is truly appreciated. Thanks, Dick Brooks Never trust software, always verify and report! =E2=84=A2 http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 -----Original Message----- From: Henk Birkholz =20 Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2020 1:00 PM To: Hannes Tschofenig ; Eliot Lear = Cc: Michael Richardson ; Dick Brooks = ; suit@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in = manifest? Hi all, my comment preliminary about this is (as my previous comment seems to = have been gobbled up by something) is basically this: Yes. In summary (my previous, gobbled up comment was more elaborate): * SBOM seems to be a sub-set of CoSWID, and * a co-author of CosSWID is a member of the NTIA SBOM group. Effectively, as I tried to post previously, I am looking at this: > Performing program introspection for risks... > *************** PROPERTIES ******************* > ----> Manufacturer : Microsoft > ----> ProductCode : {B6B7DDDB-1FF6-47F6-AB32-457052610E19} > ----> ProductName : PowerToys (Preview) ProductVersion : 0.15.2 > *************** FILES AND COMPONENTS ******************* > ----> Executable; FileName: ruguzy_l.exe|PowerToys.exe in module: > powertoys_exe > ----> Executable; FileName: h-ey7k2x.exe|PowerToysSettings.exe in = module: > settings_exe > ----> Executable; FileName: syxida6a.dll|Notifications.dll in = module: > notifications_dll I am rather sure that CoSWID can represent exactly this sub-set of of = application context. In general, CoSWID are more on the semantic = inter-operational side of things (in contrast of SBOM). In essnece, = CoSWID can express this SBOM context. The question here is (,I think), = if SBOM efforts intend to go down into this lane of representation = context. We can talk more about this. But while CoSWID in fact incorporates the = SBOM context, I wonder if the strict prescriptions of CoSWID are in fact = appropriate for the rather loose context of expressiveness of SBOM. If your target of SBOM is - effectually - resilient and reliable = post-processing, then CoSWID is seems to be a viable candidate. If your goal is to convey a rather unspecified set of software = components via a loose set of attributes (which I think SBOM is all = about today), CoSWID seems to be way too specific due to the = corresponding goal of semantic interoperability. please correct me, if I = am wrong here. Viele Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Henk On 06.06.20 12:03, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > Thanks, Eliot. This is very useful background on the terminology. I=20 > have hear about this NTIA effort but didn=E2=80=99t follow it. >=20 > I am not surprised that you already wrote a draft about it. Thanks for = > the pointer. >=20 > Ciao >=20 > Hannes >=20 > PS: I am still wondering how COSWID fits into all of this now. >=20 > *From:* Eliot Lear > *Sent:* Saturday, June 6, 2020 11:04 AM > *To:* Hannes Tschofenig > *Cc:* Michael Richardson ; Dick Brooks=20 > ; suit@ietf.org; Henk Birkholz=20 > > *Subject:* Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed = > in manifest? >=20 > The NTIA is conducting an effort relatied to this known as SBOM=20 > (Software Bill of Materials). They are in trials with healthcare=20 > delivery organizations (HDOs) medical device manufacturers (MDMs) and=20 > software providers, including people from the Linux Foundation. There = > are several different formats discussed, including Software ID Tags > (SWID) (ISO-19770) and Software Package Data Exchange (SPDX) which=20 > looks very much like what you showed, Dick. NTIA takes no position on = > what formats are used. NIST is planning to move toward SWID as they=20 > transition away from the structure used in the National Vulnerability=20 > Database (NVD). I take no position on which of these formats is=20 > better, so long as a downstream consumer can easily determine which=20 > format is being presented ;-) >=20 > The goal of SBOM is to provide transparency throughout the supply=20 > chain as to what is running on an IoT device. SBOMs at a minimum are=20 > intended to provide a manifest, and then optionally some additional=20 > stuff like a dependency graph, licensing information, and maybe some=20 > additional security attributes such as access requirements, and links=20 > assertions about whether a particular component has a vulnerability or = > has been patched. >=20 > The US FDA is planning to require SBOMs as a part of pre-sales=20 > qualification. >=20 > There are great many open issues with regard to SBOMs, some of which=20 > this group and the TEEP folk may wish to pursue. The biggest issue is = > around naming. When referring to Java, is that com.sun.java or=20 > com.oracle.java or does it matter? When referring to a supplier, is=20 > that IBM or Red Hat (or if it=E2=80=99s REALLY old software, Cygnus)? >=20 > A similar issue arises with versioning. Is that openssl 1.0.1 version = > patched or unpatched and how does one know? >=20 > Another issue is how an SBOM is retrieved. What is its well known=20 > location? Does the BOM reside on the device, and is there an=20 > interface to retrieve it? If not, where else is it? Is it even = retrievable? > Does it require permissions to do so if it resides at a vendor=20 > locale, and if so, how is versioning managed? >=20 > This is the basis for draft-lear-opsawg-mud-sbom-00.txt that Scott=20 > Rose from NIST and I put together, and would like to present at=20 > opsawg. The goal of that draft is simply a means o discovery to=20 > determine how to retrieve an SBOM. An example of how one would use=20 > this extension for an on-the-box approach in its simplest form would=20 > be that the manufacturer advertises a RESTful interface at=20 > /.well-known/sbom and returns its favorite format (let=E2=80=99s say = SPDX). =20 > The back end interface could be as simple as =E2=80=98cat=20 > /var/lib/dkpg/installed=E2=80=99 or perhaps a bit more complex using a = more secure interface to retrieve a signed manifest. >=20 > Anyway, I provide this information mostly without fully understanding=20 > the context here, but it seems relevant, given the line of discussion. > NTIA project information can be found at=20 > https://www.ntia.doc.gov/SoftwareTransparency. >=20 > Eliot >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 6 Jun 2020, at 10:19, Hannes Tschofenig > > = wrote: >=20 > I think the BOM terminology is misleading because hardware is not > software. The bill of material to produce an IoT product typically > does not change (unless you desolder parts) while the software and > configuration will regularly change. >=20 > Leaving that aside, I believe someone active in COSWID needs to > clarify what COSWID does. My understanding was that it documents = the > software libraries on devices. Whether it would be " libcurl = 1.0.2" > alone or all the libraries that are used to build "libcurl 1.0.2" = is > a granularity question that the COSWID specs should / could also > answer. That's why I thought it would be useful to have it = included > in the manifest (as supplementary information; as a severable = field). >=20 > If COSWID does not do this then someone needs to explain to me = what > purpose it serves. >=20 > Ciao > Hannes >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Richardson > > Sent: Friday, June 5, 2020 11:38 PM > To: Hannes Tschofenig > > Cc: Eliot Lear >; Dick = Brooks > >;suit@ietf.org > ; Saad EL JAOUHARI >; Henk Birkholz > > > Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions = expressed > in manifest? >=20 >=20 > Hannes Tschofenig > wrote: >=20 > FWIW I thought that COSWID would provide information about the > software > libraries on a device. >=20 >=20 > No, AFAIK, it just identifies the materials. (i.e. "libcurl=20 > 1.0.2") >=20 > Assembling them into a BOM requires another process: > "curl 1.0.2" contains "libcurl 1.0.2", "curl-main", > "libssl 1.1.1f", "glibc 2.19", "pcre = 1.0.2" >=20 > I could mis-understand though. >=20 > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 = mesh > networks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT > architect [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca > http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ >=20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments = are > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the = intended > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not = disclose > the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store > or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. >=20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are=20 > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended=20 > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose=20 > the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or=20 > copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From nobody Sat Jun 6 15:59:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E1543A003E for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 15:59:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id flhGbcz3Pqgs for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 15:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A44893A003C for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 15:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6481389BB for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 18:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id Fqzt6-w7pixz for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 18:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA5F3899B for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 18:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF40B0 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2020 18:59:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "suit\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <5820.1591393073@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2020 22:59:27 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > I think the BOM terminology is misleading because hardware is not > software. The bill of material to produce an IoT product typically does > not change (unless you desolder parts) while the software and > configuration will regularly change. This thinking is really a serious part of the problem that I think SBOM is trying to address. We think that the hardware does not change, because it's hardware, but it does change, because it's a device with an MCU with code baked in by the manufacturer. *AND* hardware *DOES* change because there are line cards, expansion slots, USB connectors that provide PCIe connectivity... But, a TPM is good example of something one might call hardware, but it's got a whole SoC in there with software. That software could have bugs. > Leaving that aside, I believe someone active in COSWID needs to clarify > what COSWID does. My understanding was that it documents the software Agreed. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl7cH8YACgkQgItw+93Q 3WW32wf/Vnu38aF4kCnG3r43BVplkvgjaTkgi5cRujva6369wxHfbRgDSLAWR+Pw GbP6qpJBY2quUwq7EpOQC060G5GAAB5zcATH8f9Skkx03TQElo/jY/BAjygzbB28 GGgETDtJAUr5buFR99dA3IJM8JBmEKTkBeLcxgFh+d6WJEH21DikTOelWSB0CZ6y eIp6WrB4qREVGUncmqFhqBqAWFUeqHS5FyB5xCN1/zrGOZw0dwrhGfEXT997gZHI pgmcH8uI33rCIqEcvWQvjqjFXN66OEtx04wZlokht2NMMvN9ZCk3MgM7HajEBaVn Pr9abJT3o+URyEXJ9vzKEaNjvERXlw== =R/ej -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Jun 8 04:27:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0070D3A0971 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 04:27:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Mon, 8 Jun 2020 11:27:38 +0000 Received: from AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f5:e4d9:51ff:eae]) by AM0PR08MB3716.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::39f5:e4d9:51ff:eae%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3066.023; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 11:27:38 +0000 From: Hannes Tschofenig To: Michael Richardson , "suit@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? 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X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2020 11:27:50 -0000 Hi Michael, Of course it depends a bit on the type of devices you look at. Many IoT dev= ices are purpose built and they cannot be extended or the extension possibi= lities are extremely limited. It is not like a PC where you plug in PCI car= ds, add more DRAM chips, or swap out the processor. This is why an IoT prod= uct developed for precision farming will not become your smart vacuum clean= er the next day. RFC 7228 was written to explain that there are many IoT de= vices that are different to general purpose computing devices. We are mixin= g the properties of general purpose computing devices with the billions of = low end IoT devices out there. Not only is the hardware different but also = the software running on those devices. FWIW the software development proces= s is also different. I have to look at the links Eliot shared but I hope that people are not ove= rly excited about the value of having information about what software versi= on is on their devices for the purpose of drawing security conclusions. You= have been at many hackathons where we created firmware for Cortex M-class = devices and we used, for example, Mbed TLS in many instances. Does this tel= l you anything about the security? Can you draw conclusions when you hear t= hat version X has a security vulnerability? Should you be concerned when a = security researcher was able to mount a fault injection attack against a sp= ecific MCU with a specific version of Mbed TLS running on it? No, not reall= y because you have to know what compile-time configurations were used to bu= ild the firmware, what hardware it is running on and what run-time configur= ation is present. I understand that people want to have some easy way to find out whether the= ir devices are secure but the story is obviously more complex. Not a surpri= se to you, for sure, but maybe for others who are not following the embedde= d development space. Ciao Hannes PS: We are drifting a bit away from the actual manifest work done in this g= roup ... -----Original Message----- From: Suit On Behalf Of Michael Richardson Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2020 12:59 AM To: suit@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in man= ifest? Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > I think the BOM terminology is misleading because hardware is not > software. The bill of material to produce an IoT product typically do= es > not change (unless you desolder parts) while the software and > configuration will regularly change. This thinking is really a serious part of the problem that I think SBOM is = trying to address. We think that the hardware does not change, because it's hardware, but it d= oes change, because it's a device with an MCU with code baked in by the man= ufacturer. *AND* hardware *DOES* change because there are line cards, expansion slots,= USB connectors that provide PCIe connectivity... But, a TPM is good example of something one might call hardware, but it's g= ot a whole SoC in there with software. That software could have bugs. > Leaving that aside, I believe someone active in COSWID needs to clari= fy > what COSWID does. My understanding was that it documents the software Agreed. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D = IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. 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Mon, 8 Jun 2020 11:36:43 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=F8nningstad=2C_=D8yvind?= To: "suit@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Valid but partial updates (possible threat) Thread-Index: AdY9hz9HHRG3eHplSsijjyFulvlEYA== Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 11:36:43 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nordicsemi.no; x-originating-ip: [2001:8c0:5140:12:48c6:23d0:5484:5a84] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 688933e4-dc4f-4199-aeae-08d80ba03844 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR05MB4356: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 042857DBB5 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: mXH+3XuF35ETbcRRmEVMZuaRd4NI2vpMi9ioJ5TZCrsPnsiLtXMrFc1Mr6vwsvsqJ/qJRrpMIrHB86P4oITmpa4ovpx9DOKKhioo0TYyOrbWuZKKEfdORZQBIcvYi5TgErKZ0x8A60E7/WecMyNlV5khkL3xpNHNLBlhqGPjAy4oOfXRExIAX0iLt8WHGqHF8xaqFQG14FArUvcHERl6RxuhIdbXZke+tkpoVyzHIBkBl/fJ94MwXTcFOfJ0sL2gomPPEIb3IlSZ/RmHpskbXBWVFcuwGr2SRr0ERUyOm/5PRzq7J4gHL4kFuUI0xD70sexIB6emy6aHYQtx47yZcw== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nordicsemi.no X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 688933e4-dc4f-4199-aeae-08d80ba03844 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Jun 2020 11:36:43.8643 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 28e5afa2-bf6f-419a-8cf6-b31c6e9e5e8d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: TZgrCYAgE3KCiK/DlbutquCXNEmBe8DwhOjqPCnbQfspHaV5+f5hfVOaoLZyfWp97Az6bg8MTr+erY6xf8eJ6EJ/ocwfGBVqI+zgMm2asPFpltclHrdw+svLWKCZrdOv X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR05MB4356 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Valid but partial updates (possible threat) X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2020 11:36:52 -0000 Hi I have a concern about root manifests. By root manifest I mean the manifest= that describes the whole coordinated update (all payloads, dependencies, a= nd conditions). For secure boot, the root manifest serves as the "entry poi= nt" for booting the system. Imagine a device is expecting a new root manifest, and an attacker inserts = a different manifest in its stead. The replacement manifest is a valid depe= ndency manifest of a valid new root manifest but not a root manifest itself= . When executed as a root manifest this manifest leaves the device in a bad= state (e.g. No app or incompatible with existing app/libraries). How to pr= otect against this (without resorting to transport-specific security)? Mayb= e a dedicated component for the manifest, with a separate class ID? If so, = this must be known by the implementer, so it should be made explicit in the= manifest document. I think this can also go into the information model as = a distinct threat (even if it is very related to 4.2.3. THREAT.IMG.INCOMPA= TIBLE: Mismatched Firmware), since it needs specific action from the implem= enter. Something like: "Valid but partial update An attacker sends a subset of a valid update, that when applied in isolatio= n breaks compatibility with other software on the device, or otherwise leav= es the Software in a bad or incomplete state." =D8yvind R=F8nningstad From nobody Mon Jun 8 07:15:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227683A0B62 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 07:15:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 57zNft-eGTeD for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 07:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 590963A0B60 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 07:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B260E5C00C7; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 10:15:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 08 Jun 2020 10:15:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=gb1RUxYzOz/0EMTnjikOw6jLm3+LwIIpRW+xxsdy3 Mc=; b=t3fSPsmYMuKurL+ee4ZRreH/RsO5WsKlPq3FiGIUfd5lWYPWvyaFZiVPn PveajyPwUaQYQTW9CGws1DgPPsHAaTNg+5J2orv2zZkl/AT3P4KAZyscLCc2APN7 tnCdZWDEKnurLg25I/YO7F/ov2NskAiPmq9fLd2N8U3kMJwMI3ulSHsB31nNqzV6 qEgp0+DUHY0UgSA3EQjspuKu3cbKP2ItfMHLM+N4ouO3kdSuJSqcxjui8nFNBKIO tuZ4b7k2mFoZwERq8Hoi9WoRjT5r4cVWm6nIZTMWAJkELAouO/LWzPLZcIpzcwtZ alTa4yb0LTppA28en6yydTFxwn/sg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudehvddgudefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefhvfhfjgfuffhokfggtgfgofhtse htqhertddvtddunecuhfhrohhmpedfffhitghkuceurhhoohhkshdfuceoughitghksehr vghlihgrsghlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihthhitghsrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtth gvrhhnpeekgfelffejtdduuddvtdeugeevjefhhfehfeeutdeukedvieefhfefffeiuefg vdenucffohhmrghinheprhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtg homhdpihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecukfhppedvudeirdduleefrddugedvrddvvdenucevlhhu shhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeguihgtkhesrhgvlh hirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from farpoint (unknown [216.193.142.22]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1F4433061DC5; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 10:15:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?'R=F8nningstad=2C_=D8yvind'?= , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 10:15:31 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <1e1cd01d63d9f$46a45ec0$d3ed1c40$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQH8BjzMoS/Ro1UJIeYo9HWw+CF6iKiDMXFw Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Valid but partial updates (possible threat) X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2020 14:15:39 -0000 This is precisely the type of attack I'm looking to detect before any attempt at installation of the software. Good use case, =D8yvind.=20 Thanks, Dick Brooks Never trust software, always verify and report! =99 http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 -----Original Message----- From: Suit On Behalf Of R=F8nningstad, =D8yvind Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 7:37 AM To: suit@ietf.org Subject: [Suit] Valid but partial updates (possible threat) Hi I have a concern about root manifests. By root manifest I mean the = manifest that describes the whole coordinated update (all payloads, dependencies, = and conditions). For secure boot, the root manifest serves as the "entry = point" for booting the system. Imagine a device is expecting a new root manifest, and an attacker = inserts a different manifest in its stead. The replacement manifest is a valid dependency manifest of a valid new root manifest but not a root manifest itself.. When executed as a root manifest this manifest leaves the = device in a bad state (e.g. No app or incompatible with existing app/libraries). = How to protect against this (without resorting to transport-specific = security)? Maybe a dedicated component for the manifest, with a separate class ID? = If so, this must be known by the implementer, so it should be made explicit = in the manifest document. I think this can also go into the information = model as a distinct threat (even if it is very related to 4.2.3. THREAT.IMG.INCOMPATIBLE: Mismatched Firmware), since it needs specific action from the implementer. Something like: "Valid but partial update An attacker sends a subset of a valid update, that when applied in = isolation breaks compatibility with other software on the device, or otherwise = leaves the Software in a bad or incomplete state." =D8yvind R=F8nningstad _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit From nobody Mon Jun 8 08:24:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A90BD3A0CB3 for ; Mon, 8 Jun 2020 08:24:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham 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<8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <5820.1591393073@localhost> <04B8CB97-9BB2-49CC-A3EB-875596C1B134@cisco.com> <4dfd0498-85fb-fe94-11d5-66f1375126e8@sit.fraunhofer.de> From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: <682a5299-55c5-9e1c-9d4e-c19c0ea169aa@sit.fraunhofer.de> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 10:01:35 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [79.234.115.101] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 08:02:08 -0000 Hi Hannes, the core definition of an ISO interoperable CoSWID is basically done. The work on extensions to use them as endorsements is done. Maybe some of this guidance on "describing software on a device" can go into the text about endorsements and reference values. We can talk more about a separate document whhile the CoSWID RIM and SUIT Manifests I-D progress. There is an upcoming update to the design of severable fields that will homogenize the use of these fields via one CDDL group definition. In general, I think, it is likely that a CoSWID will reside in the envelope (and its digest in the signed manifest). I am rather sure that we will add a few sentences about that "where do these fields go and why do it this way" earlier than section 8/9 as that became a quite vital concept to how manifests are using COSE and why it can be okay to have "unsigned" serverable fields in the envelope, etc. Maybe even in the next I-D submission already. Viele Grüße, Henk On 09.06.20 09:21, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > Thanks, Henk, for sharing your views on this subject. > > In the manifest we currently allow various pieces of information to be conveyed. Those are placed in severable fields, i.e. fields that can be removed from the manifest prior to forwarding it to the IoT device (without impacting the security wrapper). > > We have extension points in the manifest (in the envelope to be more precise) to get other "encodings" / "formats" added in the future. > > It sounds to me that this entire idea of describing software on a device is a still work in progress and further work is needed. Luckily, there is nothing in the manifest that depends on the process of this work. It would still be good, maybe in a separate document, to explain how this COSID & co is supposed to provide extra value. > > Ciao > Hannes > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Henk Birkholz > Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2020 7:00 PM > To: Hannes Tschofenig ; Eliot Lear > Cc: Michael Richardson ; Dick Brooks ; suit@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? > > Hi all, > > my comment preliminary about this is (as my previous comment seems to have been gobbled up by something) is basically this: > > Yes. In summary (my previous, gobbled up comment was more elaborate): > > * SBOM seems to be a sub-set of CoSWID, and > * a co-author of CosSWID is a member of the NTIA SBOM group. > > Effectively, as I tried to post previously, I am looking at this: > >> Performing program introspection for risks... >> *************** PROPERTIES ******************* >> ----> Manufacturer : Microsoft >> ----> ProductCode : {B6B7DDDB-1FF6-47F6-AB32-457052610E19} >> ----> ProductName : PowerToys (Preview) ProductVersion : 0.15.2 >> *************** FILES AND COMPONENTS ******************* >> ----> Executable; FileName: ruguzy_l.exe|PowerToys.exe in module: >> powertoys_exe >> ----> Executable; FileName: h-ey7k2x.exe|PowerToysSettings.exe in module: >> settings_exe >> ----> Executable; FileName: syxida6a.dll|Notifications.dll in module: >> notifications_dll > > I am rather sure that CoSWID can represent exactly this sub-set of of application context. In general, CoSWID are more on the semantic inter-operational side of things (in contrast of SBOM). In essnece, CoSWID can express this SBOM context. The question here is (,I think), if SBOM efforts intend to go down into this lane of representation context. > > We can talk more about this. But while CoSWID in fact incorporates the SBOM context, I wonder if the strict prescriptions of CoSWID are in fact appropriate for the rather loose context of expressiveness of SBOM. > > If your target of SBOM is - effectually - resilient and reliable post-processing, then CoSWID is seems to be a viable candidate. > > If your goal is to convey a rather unspecified set of software components via a loose set of attributes (which I think SBOM is all about today), CoSWID seems to be way too specific due to the corresponding goal of semantic interoperability. please correct me, if I am wrong here. > > Viele Grüße, > > Henk > > > > > On 06.06.20 12:03, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >> Thanks, Eliot. This is very useful background on the terminology. I >> have hear about this NTIA effort but didn’t follow it. >> >> I am not surprised that you already wrote a draft about it. Thanks for >> the pointer. >> >> Ciao >> >> Hannes >> >> PS: I am still wondering how COSWID fits into all of this now. >> >> *From:* Eliot Lear >> *Sent:* Saturday, June 6, 2020 11:04 AM >> *To:* Hannes Tschofenig >> *Cc:* Michael Richardson ; Dick Brooks >> ; suit@ietf.org; Henk Birkholz >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed >> in manifest? >> >> The NTIA is conducting an effort relatied to this known as SBOM >> (Software Bill of Materials). They are in trials with healthcare >> delivery organizations (HDOs) medical device manufacturers (MDMs) and >> software providers, including people from the Linux Foundation. There >> are several different formats discussed, including Software ID Tags >> (SWID) (ISO-19770) and Software Package Data Exchange (SPDX) which >> looks very much like what you showed, Dick. NTIA takes no position on >> what formats are used. NIST is planning to move toward SWID as they >> transition away from the structure used in the National Vulnerability >> Database (NVD). I take no position on which of these formats is >> better, so long as a downstream consumer can easily determine which >> format is being presented ;-) >> >> The goal of SBOM is to provide transparency throughout the supply >> chain as to what is running on an IoT device. SBOMs at a minimum are >> intended to provide a manifest, and then optionally some additional >> stuff like a dependency graph, licensing information, and maybe some >> additional security attributes such as access requirements, and links >> assertions about whether a particular component has a vulnerability or >> has been patched. >> >> The US FDA is planning to require SBOMs as a part of pre-sales >> qualification. >> >> There are great many open issues with regard to SBOMs, some of which >> this group and the TEEP folk may wish to pursue. The biggest issue is >> around naming. When referring to Java, is that com.sun.java or >> com.oracle.java or does it matter? When referring to a supplier, is >> that IBM or Red Hat (or if it’s REALLY old software, Cygnus)? >> >> A similar issue arises with versioning. Is that openssl 1.0.1 version >> patched or unpatched and how does one know? >> >> Another issue is how an SBOM is retrieved. What is its well known >> location? Does the BOM reside on the device, and is there an >> interface to retrieve it? If not, where else is it? Is it even retrievable? >> Does it require permissions to do so if it resides at a vendor >> locale, and if so, how is versioning managed? >> >> This is the basis for draft-lear-opsawg-mud-sbom-00.txt that Scott >> Rose from NIST and I put together, and would like to present at >> opsawg. The goal of that draft is simply a means o discovery to >> determine how to retrieve an SBOM. An example of how one would use >> this extension for an on-the-box approach in its simplest form would >> be that the manufacturer advertises a RESTful interface at >> /.well-known/sbom and returns its favorite format (let’s say SPDX). >> The back end interface could be as simple as ‘cat >> /var/lib/dkpg/installed’ or perhaps a bit more complex using a more secure interface to retrieve a signed manifest. >> >> Anyway, I provide this information mostly without fully understanding >> the context here, but it seems relevant, given the line of discussion. >> NTIA project information can be found at >> https://www.ntia.doc.gov/SoftwareTransparency. >> >> Eliot >> >> >> >> On 6 Jun 2020, at 10:19, Hannes Tschofenig >> > wrote: >> >> I think the BOM terminology is misleading because hardware is not >> software. The bill of material to produce an IoT product typically >> does not change (unless you desolder parts) while the software and >> configuration will regularly change. >> >> Leaving that aside, I believe someone active in COSWID needs to >> clarify what COSWID does. My understanding was that it documents the >> software libraries on devices. Whether it would be " libcurl 1.0.2" >> alone or all the libraries that are used to build "libcurl 1.0.2" is >> a granularity question that the COSWID specs should / could also >> answer. That's why I thought it would be useful to have it included >> in the manifest (as supplementary information; as a severable field). >> >> If COSWID does not do this then someone needs to explain to me what >> purpose it serves. >> >> Ciao >> Hannes >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Michael Richardson > >> Sent: Friday, June 5, 2020 11:38 PM >> To: Hannes Tschofenig > > >> Cc: Eliot Lear >; Dick Brooks >> > >;suit@ietf.org >> ; Saad EL JAOUHARI > >; Henk Birkholz >> > > >> Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed >> in manifest? >> >> >> Hannes Tschofenig > > wrote: >> >> FWIW I thought that COSWID would provide information about the >> software >> libraries on a device. >> >> >> No, AFAIK, it just identifies the materials. (i.e. "libcurl >> 1.0.2") >> >> Assembling them into a BOM requires another process: >> "curl 1.0.2" contains "libcurl 1.0.2", "curl-main", >> "libssl 1.1.1f", "glibc 2.19", "pcre 1.0.2" >> >> I could mis-understand though. >> >> -- >> ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh >> networks [ >> ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT >> architect [ >> ] mcr@sandelman.ca >> http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ >> >> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are >> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended >> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose >> the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store >> or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. >> >> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are >> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended >> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose >> the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or >> copy the information in any medium. Thank you. > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. > From nobody Tue Jun 9 02:27:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 551463A07AA for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 02:27:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id msPMIqJ2BMRT for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 02:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE6A13A0528 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 02:27:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5033; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1591694834; x=1592904434; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=1lZkJuYqRzW6RvjIPsXvRRYrfAjduqFNv7FwuK5UMrw=; b=XocA/+UiTEL6wFEmvO+0+oNoRVyGq0ArwW2LRZcMvjatpJSGoHbXwlel XAKUcu7214tClUndsb5CjHV5xny3FcURahp53A//5yxSBoCUnEoLlwM+q C9612zuej8dKVkkRMxZ00wGkp1qs7LtF07fDAsjzXMEfPjnu05TslRcdG c=; X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DQBQDAVd9e/xbLJq1mHAEBAQEBAQcBARIBAQQEAQGCC?= =?us-ascii?q?gKBIVI2gUMBIBIshCSJAYgIk2qIEgsBAQEMAQEvBAEBgVCCdAKCFSU4EwIDA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAwIDAQEBAQUBAQECAQYEbYVnQgEQAYUeAQEBAQIBI1YFCwsEFCoCAlcGE?= =?us-ascii?q?4Mmgl0gr3V2gTKFUYUfgTgBigSCZoIAgTgcghgHLj6EGINKM4ItBI8TiUqaK?= =?us-ascii?q?IEBgmOCfZYJAx2eSqtGg00CBAYFAhWBaiKBVjMaCBsVZQGCPj4SGQ2fCj8DM?= =?us-ascii?q?DcCBgEHAQEDCYVfijIBAQ?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.73,491,1583193600"; d="scan'208,217"; a="24529719" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 09 Jun 2020 09:27:01 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-61-106-171.cisco.com (dhcp-10-61-106-171.cisco.com [10.61.106.171]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 0599R08v021970 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:27:01 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <224F26E6-D4C3-4B10-A343-71D55E1A2EE2@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_99649FEE-C81B-4A21-9CAA-B444F7A69CE0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 11:27:00 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Michael Richardson , "suit@ietf.org" To: Hannes Tschofenig References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <5820.1591393073@localhost> <5789.1591484358@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.106.171, dhcp-10-61-106-171.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 09:27:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_99649FEE-C81B-4A21-9CAA-B444F7A69CE0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hannes > On 8 Jun 2020, at 13:27, Hannes Tschofenig = wrote: >=20 > I have to look at the links Eliot shared but I hope that people are = not overly excited about the value of having information about what = software version is on their devices for the purpose of drawing security = conclusions. You have been at many hackathons where we created firmware = for Cortex M-class devices and we used, for example, Mbed TLS in many = instances. Does this tell you anything about the security? Can you draw = conclusions when you hear that version X has a security vulnerability? = Should you be concerned when a security researcher was able to mount a = fault injection attack against a specific MCU with a specific version of = Mbed TLS running on it? No, not really because you have to know what = compile-time configurations were used to build the firmware, what = hardware it is running on and what run-time configuration is present. Actually, the people who should be concerned are the manufacturers, who = are going to receive calls from customers who have learned that the = manufacturer used EmbedOS but didn=E2=80=99t know that the option in a = particular device is disabled. This is an aspect of SBOMs that is = understood to be problematic, and so discussion is gradually shifting to = something they call Vulnerability EXchange (VEX) (I hate the name, but = as someone who created something called MUD I have no real leg to stand = on). The idea behind VEX, fuzzy as it is, is that one would be able to = query to determine if the manufacturer has investigated and = affirmatively determined whether a particular product has a particular = vulnerability. I like the concept, because in industrial much of the = tooling is already flagging quite a lot of false positive CVEs. Eliot= --Apple-Mail=_99649FEE-C81B-4A21-9CAA-B444F7A69CE0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hannes

On 8 Jun 2020, at 13:27, Hannes = Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> wrote:

I have to look at the links = Eliot shared but I hope that people are not overly excited about the = value of having information about what software version is on their = devices for the purpose of drawing security conclusions. You have been = at many hackathons where we created firmware for Cortex M-class devices = and we used, for example, Mbed TLS in many instances. Does this tell you = anything about the security? Can you draw conclusions when you hear that = version X has a security vulnerability? Should you be concerned when a = security researcher was able to mount a fault injection attack against a = specific MCU with a specific version of Mbed TLS running on it? No, not = really because you have to know what compile-time configurations were = used to build the firmware, what hardware it is running on and what = run-time configuration is present.

Actually, the people who should be concerned = are the manufacturers, who are going to receive calls from customers who = have learned that the manufacturer used EmbedOS but didn=E2=80=99t know = that the option in a particular device is disabled.  This is an = aspect of SBOMs that is understood to be problematic, and so discussion = is gradually shifting to something they call Vulnerability EXchange = (VEX) (I hate the name, but as someone who created something called MUD = I have no real leg to stand on).  The idea behind VEX, fuzzy as it = is, is that one would be able to query to determine if the manufacturer = has investigated and affirmatively determined whether a particular = product has a particular vulnerability.  I like the concept, = because in industrial much of the tooling is already flagging quite a = lot of false positive CVEs.

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bnkgbWVkaXVtLiBUaGFuayB5b3UuDQo= From nobody Tue Jun 9 07:18:31 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E1DC3A03F2 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 07:18:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DuGjzLMsGrd5 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 07:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com 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mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 7C33F306218B; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 10:18:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: "'Eliot Lear'" , "'Hannes Tschofenig'" Cc: "'Michael Richardson'" , References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <5820.1591393073@localhost> <5789.1591484358@localhost> <224F26E6-D4C3-4B10-A343-71D55E1A2EE2@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <224F26E6-D4C3-4B10-A343-71D55E1A2EE2@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 10:18:20 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <000001d63e68$d5d67190$818354b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01D63E47.4EC65830" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQEpJGg3Q76y3b59AZfDOO6eGr7fRAJUo0s2Am+d4lkB06Pk1ADWaYOUAhdO83ACM65vWAF5pebOAo/piAQCuLadxwEldBKmAnje01ypebYLYA== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 14:18:29 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01D63E47.4EC65830 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01D63E47.4EC65830" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01D63E47.4EC65830 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Eliot on this point =E2=80=9CI like the concept, because in = industrial much of the tooling is already flagging quite a lot of false = positive CVEs.=E2=80=9D =20 The current vulnerability reporting domain has a very poor signal/noise = ratio (lots of false positives) and the latency between vulnerability = discovery and CVE data repository awareness can be significantly longer = than it should be to effectively mitigate a vulnerability. =20 This is perhaps the biggest problem I=E2=80=99m facing, making it = difficult to determine an accurate trustworthiness level (score) for a = software object. =20 I have to agree; MUD =E2=80=93 what were you drinking when that became = the best choice? =20 Thanks, =20 Dick Brooks Never trust software, = always verify and report! =E2=84=A2 = http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: = dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 =20 From: Suit On Behalf Of Eliot Lear Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2020 5:27 AM To: Hannes Tschofenig Cc: Michael Richardson ; suit@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in = manifest? =20 Hannes On 8 Jun 2020, at 13:27, Hannes Tschofenig > wrote: =20 I have to look at the links Eliot shared but I hope that people are not = overly excited about the value of having information about what software = version is on their devices for the purpose of drawing security = conclusions. You have been at many hackathons where we created firmware = for Cortex M-class devices and we used, for example, Mbed TLS in many = instances. Does this tell you anything about the security? Can you draw = conclusions when you hear that version X has a security vulnerability? = Should you be concerned when a security researcher was able to mount a = fault injection attack against a specific MCU with a specific version of = Mbed TLS running on it? No, not really because you have to know what = compile-time configurations were used to build the firmware, what = hardware it is running on and what run-time configuration is present. =20 Actually, the people who should be concerned are the manufacturers, who = are going to receive calls from customers who have learned that the = manufacturer used EmbedOS but didn=E2=80=99t know that the option in a = particular device is disabled. This is an aspect of SBOMs that is = understood to be problematic, and so discussion is gradually shifting to = something they call Vulnerability EXchange (VEX) (I hate the name, but = as someone who created something called MUD I have no real leg to stand = on). The idea behind VEX, fuzzy as it is, is that one would be able to = query to determine if the manufacturer has investigated and = affirmatively determined whether a particular product has a particular = vulnerability. I like the concept, because in industrial much of the = tooling is already flagging quite a lot of false positive CVEs. =20 Eliot ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01D63E47.4EC65830 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I agree = with Eliot on this point =E2=80=9CI like the concept, because in = industrial much of the tooling is already flagging quite a lot of false = positive CVEs.=E2=80=9D

 

The current = vulnerability reporting domain has a very poor signal/noise ratio (lots = of false positives) and the latency between vulnerability discovery and = CVE data repository awareness can be significantly longer than it should = be to effectively mitigate a vulnerability.

 

This is = perhaps the biggest problem I=E2=80=99m facing, making it difficult to = determine an accurate trustworthiness level (score) for a software = object.

 

I have to agree; MUD =E2=80=93 what were you drinking = when that became the best choice?

 

 

From: Suit = <suit-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Eliot = Lear
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2020 5:27 AM
To: Hannes = Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
Cc: Michael = Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>; = suit@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and = firmware versions expressed in manifest?

 

Hannes



On 8 Jun 2020, at 13:27, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com&g= t; wrote:

 

I have to = look at the links Eliot shared but I hope that people are not overly = excited about the value of having information about what software = version is on their devices for the purpose of drawing security = conclusions. You have been at many hackathons where we created firmware = for Cortex M-class devices and we used, for example, Mbed TLS in many = instances. Does this tell you anything about the security? Can you draw = conclusions when you hear that version X has a security vulnerability? = Should you be concerned when a security researcher was able to mount a = fault injection attack against a specific MCU with a specific version of = Mbed TLS running on it? No, not really because you have to know what = compile-time configurations were used to build the firmware, what = hardware it is running on and what run-time configuration is = present.

 

Actually, the people who should be concerned are the = manufacturers, who are going to receive calls from customers who have = learned that the manufacturer used EmbedOS but didn=E2=80=99t know that = the option in a particular device is disabled.  This is an aspect = of SBOMs that is understood to be problematic, and so discussion is = gradually shifting to something they call Vulnerability EXchange (VEX) = (I hate the name, but as someone who created something called MUD I have = no real leg to stand on).  The idea behind VEX, fuzzy as it is, is = that one would be able to query to determine if the manufacturer has = investigated and affirmatively determined whether a particular product = has a particular vulnerability.  I like the concept, because in = industrial much of the tooling is already flagging quite a lot of false = positive CVEs.

 

Eliot

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-1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2aIEH_vfHWlX; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B63AC3A090F; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495F538A35; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id BebVEe1L0yCn; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1C6938A2A; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCE93A9; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:13:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: suit@ietf.org, lwig@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org, sacm@ietf.org reply-to: lwig@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] next steps in clarifying scoping terminology for SUIT, CoSWID, MUD and SBOM X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 16:13:39 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain {I've set the reply-to to lwig, which I think is appropriate} SUIT aims at devices where the firmware can be updated as one (or a counted on fingers few) blob. This is a good constraint, and because it's a "few" blobs, the edge isn't overly sharp. For instance, we have a common understanding that while SUIT is inappropriate for Smartphone APPs, it is appropriate for the core "System", "Rescue" and "Radio/Broadband" images that are typical for phones. Such smartphones do not fit into RFC7228, and yet they are not "unconstrained" We constrast SUIT to devices where the is potentially many packages that can be updated, up to and including the Linux/Windows desktop/server environment where there are potentially thousands of packages. In RFC7228, we described a series of useful terms and classes, and we have repeatedly come back wishing to have some notions of "class 3+" to describe classes of more capable devices, up to and including "classic" desktop and server OS installations. I think that as we move towards dealing with SBOM concepts (whether via CoSWID, or in liason to IoTSF and/or NTIA) that it would be useful if we worked on an rfc7228bis (or a companion document: nothing wrong with 7228 really), that allowed us to speak more intelligently about different classes of devices. I believe that this should go to the point of having an IANA Registry for the class types, and that RFC8520(MUD) and maybe CoSWID would want to assert such a thing. And probably into some other netmod protocol. Given device FOO on one's Enterprise network, which seems to have a vulnerability, how does one upgrade it? Forklift? JTAG cable? OTA via custom protocol? OTA with SUIT? "apt-get"? "windows-update"? Can device download while it is operational? For instance, my impression is that 90% of Industrial/Smart-City IoT devices in a space way above class 2 (a class 4 or 5!) which are essentially a RPI/Grapeboard/equivalent. In the *best case* running a Yocto build with many many input packages, but only a single image on the output. In a worst case, they are literally Raspberry PI running Raspbian, and dpkg, with the resulting SDcard getting cloned. These devices are hardwired/cabled manually, or experience two-touch onboarding to WiFI or Lora... and they talk back to some cloud provided system that itself may have an unknown set of packages. The SBOM situation could not be worse: it would not surprise me to find gnutls, openssl and gpg crypto on the target system, each with their own copy a RSA and ECDSA encrypt, and should some new oracle/etc. kind of attack to come along, that devices in the field will be completely unevenly patched. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl7ftS0ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WWcYAf7Bsbx4sUAXxz8Gml/9Ccvni1nOFjIxs4bzYW35xQbxBlUcVnhiP0J60rz EwNOvBsKQS12/ncm7INZgsJItBnVa57Zq75WwLyuiWb8adpE1iYQ0UgWXwgSq7aX cIZ3LfWsyqjaWWBvjFARjSSn22hOqB+pELGzq3Y+iWsREM8yq9FSKoo0yfPDF6xZ lKsfgbADzNkC4k/Re2wVKVRO6v17LjHJuGmsVc+B1oTmjkHfUL/77WBboEuLB9Q5 Z4/KaRu0HUfMTuWuNDo0kOve6KjTBkPeNwV2Dh3m+R/7gQwiiYZRNdhFy4y76/Gt /SJsfRdvO9HGrizJFAqFoT7rhUIgTw== =sWMD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jun 9 09:36:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECEDB3A0905 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:36:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 70XUCnSIZRs5 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC1043A08AD for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB886300B04 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:36:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id mI2mxv8sYLym for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:36:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-72-66-113-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.113.56]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B93A5300A48 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:36:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Message-Id: <768B51FA-9712-49FD-91DE-7F43001E864D@vigilsec.com> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:36:03 -0400 To: suit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Shepherd Writeup for draft-ietf-suit-architecture X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 16:36:08 -0000 h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-architecture/shepherdwrite= up/ Please review and comment. I will proceed with the request for IESG = publication in parallel to the review of the writeup. Russ From nobody Tue Jun 9 09:36:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF1F63A0905; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:36:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R0lYNPZM8wd2; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9879F3A08AD; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E73BF5C00B7; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 09 Jun 2020 12:36:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=zS+nZ4v/vOoHONwbYGPBsXEGrq+EPW0iajwHHBMis uo=; b=Uo3YMhJLxgIsgBQV0yK4HplP07vknNxfR7CjGWOLQ9VJqH4u9nYqdDN5f vF+9xO5nMYN8C23PlxobLiYmRoFkL0YZzXNTlleOFOktXKaCn+N/SLrzM1FLZrKM DNwHcGwV9L/9cgeSQZzpJa+r3hW6m2M4goXbrY/ZRdgKM2K0dWunvEpeGdS54caF cCqYwLYnecX3dNcYMpnQFVUe1PVq7/7ACjMne8YUWHQ+hyo6i75Pf6Jns+7MIZud LinTzIgCd55KKt9YWE+jzbVe3S92wJUW+fczQh+Gvl0OIquOOL1fZ8FITwKHMIeo 3HHc9df0IOCTqJDZRcp5exHwvdmUA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudehgedguddtgecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephffvfhgjufffohfkgggtgffoth esthejghdtvddtvdenucfhrhhomhepfdffihgtkhcuuehrohhokhhsfdcuoeguihgtkhes rhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrth htvghrnhepgedukeeujeelvdfftddvveegheeihfffffdujedthffgtdegkeevjeffgeeh hefhnecuffhomhgrihhnpehrvghlihgrsghlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihthhitghsrd gtohhmnecukfhppedvudeirdduleefrddugedvrddvvdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigv pedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeguihgtkhesrhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvg hrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from farpoint (unknown [216.193.142.22]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8163530618C1; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:36:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: , , , References: <22789.1591719213@localhost> In-Reply-To: <22789.1591719213@localhost> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:36:20 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <013201d63e7c$1cb1ced0$56156c70$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGbwf3yKibs4Vd6QV5H3AFmUN06yqlFdBfA Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] next steps in clarifying scoping terminology for SUIT, CoSWID, MUD and SBOM X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 16:36:28 -0000 +1 Thanks, Dick Brooks Never trust software, always verify and report! T http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 -----Original Message----- From: Suit On Behalf Of Michael Richardson Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2020 12:14 PM To: suit@ietf.org; lwig@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; sacm@ietf.org Subject: [Suit] next steps in clarifying scoping terminology for SUIT, CoSWID, MUD and SBOM {I've set the reply-to to lwig, which I think is appropriate} SUIT aims at devices where the firmware can be updated as one (or a counted on fingers few) blob. This is a good constraint, and because it's a "few" blobs, the edge isn't overly sharp. For instance, we have a common understanding that while SUIT is inappropriate for Smartphone APPs, it is appropriate for the core "System", "Rescue" and "Radio/Broadband" images that are typical for phones. Such smartphones do not fit into RFC7228, and yet they are not "unconstrained" We constrast SUIT to devices where the is potentially many packages that can be updated, up to and including the Linux/Windows desktop/server environment where there are potentially thousands of packages. In RFC7228, we described a series of useful terms and classes, and we have repeatedly come back wishing to have some notions of "class 3+" to describe classes of more capable devices, up to and including "classic" desktop and server OS installations. I think that as we move towards dealing with SBOM concepts (whether via CoSWID, or in liason to IoTSF and/or NTIA) that it would be useful if we worked on an rfc7228bis (or a companion document: nothing wrong with 7228 really), that allowed us to speak more intelligently about different classes of devices. I believe that this should go to the point of having an IANA Registry for the class types, and that RFC8520(MUD) and maybe CoSWID would want to assert such a thing. And probably into some other netmod protocol. Given device FOO on one's Enterprise network, which seems to have a vulnerability, how does one upgrade it? Forklift? JTAG cable? OTA via custom protocol? OTA with SUIT? "apt-get"? "windows-update"? Can device download while it is operational? For instance, my impression is that 90% of Industrial/Smart-City IoT devices in a space way above class 2 (a class 4 or 5!) which are essentially a RPI/Grapeboard/equivalent. In the *best case* running a Yocto build with many many input packages, but only a single image on the output. In a worst case, they are literally Raspberry PI running Raspbian, and dpkg, with the resulting SDcard getting cloned. These devices are hardwired/cabled manually, or experience two-touch onboarding to WiFI or Lora... and they talk back to some cloud provided system that itself may have an unknown set of packages. The SBOM situation could not be worse: it would not surprise me to find gnutls, openssl and gpg crypto on the target system, each with their own copy a RSA and ECDSA encrypt, and should some new oracle/etc. kind of attack to come along, that devices in the field will be completely unevenly patched. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- From nobody Tue Jun 9 09:36:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AC603A09DC; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:36:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Russ Housley via Datatracker To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.3.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: suit@ietf.org, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, Russ Housley , suit-chairs@ietf.org, housley@vigilsec.com Message-ID: <159172060154.25201.7270844810757668610@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 09:36:41 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-suit-architecture-11 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 16:36:46 -0000 Russ Housley has requested publication of draft-ietf-suit-architecture-11 as Informational on behalf of the SUIT working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-architecture/ From nobody Tue Jun 9 09:39:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553533A097F for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:39:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=ZmuK0wkp; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=ZmuK0wkp Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gUP6j2iJEvJZ for ; 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Ip=[63.35.35.123]; Helo=[64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR0801MB1630 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Shepherd Writeup for draft-ietf-suit-architecture X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 16:39:28 -0000 Looks good to me. -----Original Message----- From: Suit On Behalf Of Russ Housley Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 6:36 PM To: suit Subject: [Suit] Shepherd Writeup for draft-ietf-suit-architecture https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-architecture/shepherdwrite= up/ Please review and comment. I will proceed with the request for IESG public= ation in parallel to the review of the writeup. Russ _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. From nobody Tue Jun 9 09:40:23 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E59B3A0985 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:40:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8Kgg-cUtK1k1 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D5B453A0905 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:40:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65B8138A32; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id qms6aP1XO3ik; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C885389B2; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8934B696; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:40:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Eliot Lear , Hannes Tschofenig , "suit\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <224F26E6-D4C3-4B10-A343-71D55E1A2EE2@cisco.com> References: <8b6d01d639d0$62614150$2723c3f0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <20437.1591317129@localhost> <1076601d63b3a$d53f5d90$7fbe18b0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <5820.1591393073@localhost> <5789.1591484358@localhost> <224F26E6-D4C3-4B10-A343-71D55E1A2EE2@cisco.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] How are firmware and firmware versions expressed in manifest? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 16:40:22 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Eliot Lear wrote: > stand on). The idea behind VEX, fuzzy as it is, is that one would be > able to query to determine if the manufacturer has investigated and > affirmatively determined whether a particular product has a particular > vulnerability. I like the concept, because in industrial much of the > tooling is already flagging quite a lot of false positive CVEs. Let me tell you as an opensource software maintainer, that I get CVEs to review that apply to version Y of product Z which is of class "SSL VPN", and yet, the CVE people will pattern matched on "VPN", and assumed it must apply to IPsec systems too. The WTF level is ridiculous. The cost of review is serious and signficant, particularly as the details are often really hard to find. VEX will be a good thing. Being able to sign them would be awesome. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl7fu28ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUqgQf/Srx2TiuGGtJ5XvoGiVuSmjV8OpUeFROSiGYRpk3JoRxffByjhdxNv8BF aTozUEDZI+DcHlasHHHANOq2D3sLvcig4RXycQ7x7eSCsA878vYdhacqEcR5riUu 6mAodveenIJHrdezYeuZuzO0qld7qwqy3wEES3QNZFFiV4rLp86RrxgTGSRlle4f CAvzYix7pm/DMjkUEjAPmPKBq1CcOx80mSzdvnJR8fUw+aNp92Jg8GcMgfnEGz0s TfB3Xtgtmw/PXe4jOccJ8DmVjQrff5kQ5G9Ul2DVnA5v0tT4qmkMPM0vGgkjMASn T06e/Mq7FN2JGKMyQlPwAcOzpULdAw== =EXtD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jun 9 09:57:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33C033A09DA; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 09:57:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: suit@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.3.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: suit@ietf.org Message-ID: <159172182811.25374.5903061570049149239@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 09:57:08 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07.txt X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 16:57:08 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Software Updates for Internet of Things WG of the IETF. Title : A Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR)-based Serialization Format for the Software Updates for Internet of Things (SUIT) Manifest Authors : Brendan Moran Hannes Tschofenig Henk Birkholz Koen Zandberg Filename : draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07.txt Pages : 84 Date : 2020-06-09 Abstract: This specification describes the format of a manifest. A manifest is a bundle of metadata about the firmware for an IoT device, where to find the firmware, the devices to which it applies, and cryptographic information protecting the manifest. Firmware updates and secure boot both tend to use sequences of common operations, so the manifest encodes those sequences of operations, rather than declaring the metadata. The manifest also serves as a building block for secure boot. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-manifest/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 9 10:15:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC6553A0A8B for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 10:15:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=uXZ5c/GQ; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=uXZ5c/GQ Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MCtjQRHv4wK9 for ; 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Ip=[63.35.35.123]; Helo=[64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PR2PR08MB4764 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 17:15:03 -0000 Hi all, I just submitted version -07 of the manifest draft. Here are the changes: * Corrected the boilerplate text (it was wrong also in the architecture and= the information model draft) * All CDDL text is now concentrated in one place. This should make it easie= r to read. * Fixed various TBDs for parameter descriptions in the text * Enhanced IANA consideration section * Completed the Implementation Conformance Matrix * Removed mailing list info Here is the doc: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 Here is the diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. From nobody Tue Jun 9 10:32:37 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A1433A0B92 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 10:32:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_GOV_DKIM_AU=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nist.gov Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vsvgnOoNnN4q for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 10:32:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GCC02-DM3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm3gcc02on2136.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.91.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F31FE3A0B67 for ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 10:32:33 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=kmK004lmvkoCewBG0MSLL8EdQ9W+PW0R6ZhvQHm+Y6we5I1rO+HoeFqIZ4feG39v6VPUXH1Spt6nj31qN5whCR4IRA0ymPsTsaznNCkS53Bnp8bn3Ge56GxA4uHbfCubGD/UxGpdy81bvhK7FaYqJrZQkHobE7OfUayfOmYq254oEkK9/mvfWw8OSWN78Jt/FoEGgJrPlwMitu/ib4sRHAL/wABEUXUNM7idmrZGE/vVgVK8P3LW63Ukgfb1ErAqDCatDpWGa6b5ytl8FGAOJmcVcdZ+7w+Eob0RXhX2i27J2rXQAiZphiW3bo9VEVrtkqjQQghIXseh2VEb9iwCCg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=4NmGjiT5wQ3cNWd1IqZA4Co834onS4VKL1dN1I2bpd8=; b=LGkBZhoYQLKr/4YbC/bRjIbLdLSgHZXmt5XguRRyWW1E7Paov+z65+iuFBI0m8mbZb4V2VtwV+BS8RLZDE7ciXNy0oWKryTVdb2mRKfVuQ/+ts9TAd2+Kxuf7s/b2vkc2jH5CT1XoW7DbDU+gXpFHh7C3ymn5gG7nEc97LpnuI/QMfvsv7VEQp9THDvLnHtlhxCfbYZ9rui1CtIZfGWT+TjpyR6h4NAETx+51/xivhruR2AFsk46RC9Ysw5V6VtDfOQe1mAE+w1m7JQBklXZvXhMnkoYyJWO3i30s0SzE00MsumUd0FSo8irko+IdGsHFXAlZezgOG1WGrQ1BoPWLA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nist.gov; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nist.gov; dkim=pass header.d=nist.gov; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nist.gov; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=4NmGjiT5wQ3cNWd1IqZA4Co834onS4VKL1dN1I2bpd8=; b=g3jjlCvm1c33wLXVRTtag4gUsE3Kp3tOe98zlBhA8dt98SJen0iYihecrE0GB+A+BquVL1x2LqZwAn+UrcIQsy2TJdPoX8nGsoMuy0zkucHx7BQ+Fa0x9BaHGhxjUz6eOgUOg2KaspHp3AmX0XJHIsVUuuc2jXJAEcIib2k1wK4= Received: from CH2PR09MB4251.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:36::17) by CH2PR09MB4252.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:6d::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3066.18; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 17:32:32 +0000 Received: from CH2PR09MB4251.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::715c:31e6:7e11:420a]) by CH2PR09MB4251.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::715c:31e6:7e11:420a%4]) with mapi id 15.20.3066.023; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 17:32:31 +0000 From: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" To: Hannes Tschofenig , suit Thread-Topic: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? Thread-Index: AdY+g8RioMdZuMGSTiyeIUnWZR+rOA== Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 17:32:31 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: arm.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;arm.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [129.6.152.73] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 18cefbda-a8cc-4984-c547-08d80c9b1718 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CH2PR09MB4252: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 042957ACD7 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: qE+A5NNG+gZc6n0mwcg0clOQQp2SSsQlPA/O4fibJiS6g/tHZJ8uYF1CcJylV4szC3S9JX4KAiHLSNRgCzPmNEKTC6SDevfK1Z3alDgHSHRmHSs5xy6t9Dxgmo3Ov6zlZGx0Fs5EWho4YWDFXR7UNVmHjPqXLW2wRoQhD7gXyYpTE5zDnzNDJShnj/dGixlfaSaeomGy486lKplA+vbF4dcn18VhqazwF/pNzcZiZLBMy2L9fq9FD1QTMdzG3Crkg3mlQo5bpWdj+NLrzg8hcvmwxzabLag/A/M8zYnA5l9JRIcGPE1ccnOyASKvfntBUT8nY8bE0CN61HjGjRxWQ//FWvakzCfaC7xhuiYsBj4ksJtwPg3kq2gHcny5dhYE/N5UObWbBLSGpdjaVLMGbQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CH2PR09MB4251.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(39860400002)(376002)(136003)(396003)(366004)(346002)(45080400002)(316002)(5660300002)(8936002)(966005)(478600001)(71200400001)(9686003)(110136005)(2906002)(52536014)(55016002)(66446008)(8676002)(66946007)(66556008)(86362001)(64756008)(33656002)(83380400001)(66476007)(26005)(53546011)(76116006)(6506007)(7696005)(186003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: Opwqp0Ah2uxba6vwBTdyW1/mmMwW4ukUJ3ECTHXqKyK69FsWrWzfhY4HkJkHncsP9bbFEsSDtGRi2dAW2en5/ZW2e6VxlB7lBE7o4cuER6pOyLd1HJTHvs/rI9jwpGbDFot2tynKjSvN/njy7KwSlx+a3GnR+AKXWnR3spLgZwbfKWnC6Xt7cbnYb8sep72vb1fRA2mab9OoFeFQUtfYFZbA0AcBo0N5lPvmFBykuaReqhNv02FxBpjEm2e1iiZ9XSHvZzap2j0eJr2+IZwDxGuFZfMZ3NmlCun2hUAWwJ89iSBjUlfsxFme8QEeGSxT4afOP5FEdSWAbdmX01NNLn/XVdMLvNLIqafQLFhbTMOJsBhfZJA/K2+2yBOUFwabtmgrLyc5Lbwd4FGAaVTmAWA7Itz4Bxyo6C8sE9+LCHmYcA8haocDoqNgA3V/bTiweGZ7E+Xyv/Kep7he/ZlQUdFkdEYetIDQm159n3PXvLY= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 18cefbda-a8cc-4984-c547-08d80c9b1718 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Jun 2020 17:32:31.9171 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: dWVP12ZYM8g/y5cN2+ef5Vl5TO/FsBTYcXw133ekHP/4x6dq9QQNxYTURq9eUdb4OkjEyIcXofnlz5v6+bdW4Q== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR09MB4252 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 17:32:36 -0000 I'd like to get a sense from the working group about how mature everyone th= inks this draft is. Do you think there are any significant areas or work th= at still need to be addressed before starting a WGLC? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Suit On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:15 PM To: suit Subject: [Suit] draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 Hi all, I just submitted version -07 of the manifest draft. Here are the changes: * Corrected the boilerplate text (it was wrong also in the architecture and= the information model draft) * All CDDL text is now concentrated in one place. This should make it easie= r to read. * Fixed various TBDs for parameter descriptions in the text * Enhanced IANA consideration section * Completed the Implementation Conformance Matrix * Removed mailing list info Here is the doc: https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.i= etf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-suit-manifest-07&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.wal= termire%40nist.gov%7C0bebc9420b4d4a8414d708d80c98afec%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93= e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637273197219461344&sdata=3DFIDOF03YpTKQXnVbfFWd= FZlbMyCWRCh6pS4MeGnAP4M%3D&reserved=3D0 Here is the diff: https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-ietf-suit-manifest-07&data=3D02%7C01%7Cd= avid.waltermire%40nist.gov%7C0bebc9420b4d4a8414d708d80c98afec%7C2ab5d82fd8f= a4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637273197219461344&sdata=3D6FNvlZKR51Ad= HRb2y2gLZHflbNxg5Xug%2BQxAQSJPlMs%3D&reserved=3D0 Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40n= ist.gov%7C0bebc9420b4d4a8414d708d80c98afec%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61d= ec%7C1%7C0%7C637273197219461344&sdata=3D%2Fa4VetAyNJLU776I5uy%2Bf2%2Fs3= %2FCGVPVG5iytA3MQZ4s%3D&reserved=3D0 From nobody Tue Jun 9 10:41:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DA713A0B24; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 10:41:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k0s33aMMrKCJ; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 10:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89EB83A0AFD; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 10:41:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5F8638A39; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 13:38:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 1k1mR_FumJui; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 13:38:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 470F938A36; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 13:38:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 867C9696; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 13:41:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: lwip@ietf.org, suit@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org, sacm@ietf.org Reply-To: lwip@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <22789.1591719213@localhost> References: <22789.1591719213@localhost> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] next steps in clarifying scoping terminology for SUIT, CoSWID, MUD and SBOM X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 17:41:14 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain {Annoyingly, the LWIG wg's ML is LWIP@ietf.org. We gotta stop own-goals like this. My appologies for repeating myself} {I've set the reply-to to lwig, which I think is appropriate} SUIT aims at devices where the firmware can be updated as one (or a counted on fingers few) blob. This is a good constraint, and because it's a "few" blobs, the edge isn't overly sharp. For instance, we have a common understanding that while SUIT is inappropriate for Smartphone APPs, it is appropriate for the core "System", "Rescue" and "Radio/Broadband" images that are typical for phones. Such smartphones do not fit into RFC7228, and yet they are not "unconstrained" We constrast SUIT to devices where the is potentially many packages that can be updated, up to and including the Linux/Windows desktop/server environment where there are potentially thousands of packages. In RFC7228, we described a series of useful terms and classes, and we have repeatedly come back wishing to have some notions of "class 3+" to describe classes of more capable devices, up to and including "classic" desktop and server OS installations. I think that as we move towards dealing with SBOM concepts (whether via CoSWID, or in liason to IoTSF and/or NTIA) that it would be useful if we worked on an rfc7228bis (or a companion document: nothing wrong with 7228 really), that allowed us to speak more intelligently about different classes of devices. I believe that this should go to the point of having an IANA Registry for the class types, and that RFC8520(MUD) and maybe CoSWID would want to assert such a thing. And probably into some other netmod protocol. Given device FOO on one's Enterprise network, which seems to have a vulnerability, how does one upgrade it? Forklift? JTAG cable? OTA via custom protocol? OTA with SUIT? "apt-get"? "windows-update"? Can device download while it is operational? For instance, my impression is that 90% of Industrial/Smart-City IoT devices in a space way above class 2 (a class 4 or 5!) which are essentially a RPI/Grapeboard/equivalent. In the *best case* running a Yocto build with many many input packages, but only a single image on the output. In a worst case, they are literally Raspberry PI running Raspbian, and dpkg, with the resulting SDcard getting cloned. These devices are hardwired/cabled manually, or experience two-touch onboarding to WiFI or Lora... and they talk back to some cloud provided system that itself may have an unknown set of packages. The SBOM situation could not be worse: it would not surprise me to find gnutls, openssl and gpg crypto on the target system, each with their own copy a RSA and ECDSA encrypt, and should some new oracle/etc. kind of attack to come along, that devices in the field will be completely unevenly patched. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl7fybAACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUMVwf/XBzAVofWiR4iA0MF3VBNznALL+JfyH4l77qRU4mDx0WuLUuiNWVT/f0h y5Z2ornMUxaHwBk2Yi2RZAwnure7uXBGyPjepbNW/KU7sqGEHZWAHoOThD/2xf74 jmZcRvOdTXl/zBC9ksXQ2T6ZYaA0sPGeCtGosq2VMDuv0dn69BCHNSE+TLNFAZ9k pfTvCMqXEqbl4Jiim41vWh/U6/eg3pEqrk+hJKF8xa/e5mid5Myd/XY2hxn+PyKW QjQv/J2VCIdvM6hm+T3CjOxIdegQYRGYnzkd/PvnStAg3xfKZpnJlnm4JmjhaJfI DL4QG4emW6/Cho3XcrxEqn85TA0Rqw== =AQqp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jun 9 11:23:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7F273A0CD4 for ; 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Tue, 9 Jun 2020 18:23:05 +0000 From: Hannes Tschofenig To: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" , suit Thread-Topic: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? 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X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 18:23:19 -0000 Hi David, the last few draft updates have focused on improving readability. I also be= lieve we need more examples and that's something I will focus on next. The upcoming hackathon might also help to provide further input. Ciao Hannes -----Original Message----- From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 7:33 PM To: Hannes Tschofenig ; suit Subject: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? I'd like to get a sense from the working group about how mature everyone th= inks this draft is. Do you think there are any significant areas or work th= at still need to be addressed before starting a WGLC? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Suit On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:15 PM To: suit Subject: [Suit] draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 Hi all, I just submitted version -07 of the manifest draft. Here are the changes: * Corrected the boilerplate text (it was wrong also in the architecture and= the information model draft) * All CDDL text is now concentrated in one place. This should make it easie= r to read. * Fixed various TBDs for parameter descriptions in the text * Enhanced IANA consideration section * Completed the Implementation Conformance Matrix * Removed mailing list info Here is the doc: https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.i= etf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-suit-manifest-07&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.wal= termire%40nist.gov%7C0bebc9420b4d4a8414d708d80c98afec%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93= e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637273197219461344&sdata=3DFIDOF03YpTKQXnVbfFWd= FZlbMyCWRCh6pS4MeGnAP4M%3D&reserved=3D0 Here is the diff: https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-ietf-suit-manifest-07&data=3D02%7C01%7Cd= avid.waltermire%40nist.gov%7C0bebc9420b4d4a8414d708d80c98afec%7C2ab5d82fd8f= a4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637273197219461344&sdata=3D6FNvlZKR51Ad= HRb2y2gLZHflbNxg5Xug%2BQxAQSJPlMs%3D&reserved=3D0 Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40n= ist.gov%7C0bebc9420b4d4a8414d708d80c98afec%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61d= ec%7C1%7C0%7C637273197219461344&sdata=3D%2Fa4VetAyNJLU776I5uy%2Bf2%2Fs3= %2FCGVPVG5iytA3MQZ4s%3D&reserved=3D0 IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. From nobody Tue Jun 9 12:06:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4040E3A0D0B; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:06:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id snBRB-VBlsoa; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D75163A0D09; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 12:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.42.112] (p5089ae91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.174.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49hKNG0vjBzyNT; Tue, 9 Jun 2020 21:06:21 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <22789.1591719213@localhost> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 21:06:21 +0200 Cc: suit@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org, sacm@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 613422381.026311-eb8d20bec41f1b23ddbead370ca7b1b9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <22789.1591719213@localhost> To: lwip@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] next steps in clarifying scoping terminology for SUIT, CoSWID, MUD and SBOM X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2020 19:06:29 -0000 Hi Michael, > On 2020-06-09, at 18:13, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > [=E2=80=A6] smartphones do not fit into RFC7228, and yet they are not = "unconstrained" >=20 > We constrast SUIT to devices where the is potentially many packages = that > can be updated, up to and including the Linux/Windows desktop/server > environment where there are potentially thousands of packages. >=20 > In RFC7228, we described a series of useful terms and classes, and we = have > repeatedly come back wishing to have some notions of "class 3+" to = describe > classes of more capable devices, up to and including "classic" desktop = and > server OS installations. >=20 > I think that as we move towards dealing with SBOM concepts (whether = via > CoSWID, or in liason to IoTSF and/or NTIA) that it would be useful if = we > worked on an rfc7228bis (or a companion document: nothing wrong with = 7228 really), > that allowed us to speak more intelligently about different classes of > devices. There is activity on a 7228 bis. Would https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bormann-lwig-7228bis-06#table-1 have helped you? This has a number of experimental classes above 2; both in the M Group = (microcontrollers) and the J Group (general purpose computers =E2=80=94 = pun only accessible to people who know how Jeeps got their name). Note that Sections 3.1..3.3 have more experimental categories; not sure = these are useful for what you are trying to do. 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Ob80s9AZBpSGacwkh2mYL+RstS+2CAyFPaBKDC1DcEO2pEsZA6yf+e4rrshaTxBx5AHWMETf9n5hpjty6POKuGbZZsuDJ7veO792jprOagv7Yz7Ofl1jbvg5RoQLIlFpGlYHBq0XaBCsNkZo2j7wi67jfUpjTR26Hqv8Eg7b2GNY1mOt7YagHOvtAkfdkhyBzLS1hwTWA0znqPyiMEuxUgHsIdupGj9jGHLIBSIaeL1Iz1RmjRpfZtkHmiG4bQ40RJfPCPNyA8TF40YTIlAdyMlue04BCZPnjklE4qtObAcilvoRdZOK8+xe7AN9LdMQNfbKKcAjj+ngAZPv9RdAcMbvXR3/gWVM7bpX58rNbJwMirhSHcZ9+LGxU5UVexSg7uoHy7wqinK/5ox//Zjtzz1e9Ou7ydeItV+UAl8C5ntHXHCC0R0wdm0kdN94X7Q6KoltwIsy3T1eAgRdv/irxRKFl0q0uPNhqV1kQlBqH1U= X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jun 2020 13:05:46.2310 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 112cf3d0-cd5c-4ebb-bcf7-08d80e0827c1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d; Ip=[63.35.35.123]; Helo=[64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR08MB3687 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] next steps in clarifying scoping terminology for SUIT, CoSWID, MUD and SBOM X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 13:15:55 -0000 I think there may be some misconceptions about SUIT here. The SUIT charter says: > This group will focus on defining a firmware update solution (taking into > account past learnings from RFC 4108 and other firmware update solutions)= that > will be usable on Class 1 (as defined in RFC 7228) devices, i.e., devices= with > ~10 KiB RAM and ~100 KiB flash. The solution may apply to more capable de= vices > as well. The suit manifest does, happily, apply to more capable devices. The suit ma= nifest is, in principle, being adopted in TEEP, which targets more capable = devices. Certainly, the design of suit was explicitly intended to target Class 1 dev= ices, however I am not aware of any missing feature or any missing function= ality that would inherently restrict SUIT from being used for many componen= t, high capability systems. I see no inherent problem with using suit manifests to deploy smartphone ap= ps, docker containers, VM images, linux packages, kernel images, recovery p= artitions or bootloaders. Please could you explain what the problem you see is that would make suit i= nappropriate for smartphone apps or many-component systems. Best Regards, Brendan > On 9 Jun 2020, at 17:13, Michael Richardson wrote= : > > > {I've set the reply-to to lwig, which I think is appropriate} > > SUIT aims at devices where the firmware can be updated as one (or a count= ed > on fingers few) blob. This is a good constraint, and because it's a "few= " > blobs, the edge isn't overly sharp. > > For instance, we have a common understanding that while SUIT is inappropr= iate > for Smartphone APPs, it is appropriate for the core "System", "Rescue" an= d > "Radio/Broadband" images that are typical for phones. > Such smartphones do not fit into RFC7228, and yet they are not "unconstra= ined" > > We constrast SUIT to devices where the is potentially many packages that > can be updated, up to and including the Linux/Windows desktop/server > environment where there are potentially thousands of packages. > > In RFC7228, we described a series of useful terms and classes, and we hav= e > repeatedly come back wishing to have some notions of "class 3+" to descri= be > classes of more capable devices, up to and including "classic" desktop an= d > server OS installations. > > I think that as we move towards dealing with SBOM concepts (whether via > CoSWID, or in liason to IoTSF and/or NTIA) that it would be useful if we > worked on an rfc7228bis (or a companion document: nothing wrong with 7228= really), > that allowed us to speak more intelligently about different classes of > devices. > > I believe that this should go to the point of having an IANA Registry > for the class types, and that RFC8520(MUD) and maybe CoSWID would want to > assert such a thing. And probably into some other netmod protocol. > > Given device FOO on one's Enterprise network, which seems to have a > vulnerability, how does one upgrade it? > > Forklift? JTAG cable? OTA via custom protocol? OTA with SUIT? > "apt-get"? "windows-update"? Can device download while it is operational? > > For instance, my impression is that 90% of Industrial/Smart-City IoT devi= ces > in a space way above class 2 (a class 4 or 5!) which are essentially a > RPI/Grapeboard/equivalent. In the *best case* running a Yocto build with > many many input packages, but only a single image on the output. In a wo= rst > case, they are literally Raspberry PI running Raspbian, and dpkg, with > the resulting SDcard getting cloned. > > These devices are hardwired/cabled manually, or experience two-touch > onboarding to WiFI or Lora... and they talk back to some cloud provided > system that itself may have an unknown set of packages. > > The SBOM situation could not be worse: it would not surprise me to find > gnutls, openssl and gpg crypto on the target system, each with their > own copy a RSA and ECDSA encrypt, and should some new oracle/etc. kind > of attack to come along, that devices in the field will be completely > unevenly patched. > > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. From nobody Thu Jun 11 08:02:32 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED36C3A08F0 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 08:02:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DlY5No3OUAc3 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 08:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 023F53A08DB for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 08:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D8B5300B5F for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 11:02:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id h4WL2xyHbM58 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 11:02:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-72-66-113-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.113.56]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EF45C300B1F for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 11:02:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D9CCABF7-2794-4EC4-8E99-7CC7C7F4DCAD" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 11:02:22 -0400 References: <159181529656.16063.6964178024900109434@ietfa.amsl.com> To: suit In-Reply-To: <159181529656.16063.6964178024900109434@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Fwd: Nomcom 2020-2021 Second Call For Volunteers X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 15:02:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D9CCABF7-2794-4EC4-8E99-7CC7C7F4DCAD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Please volunteer. If you cannot volunteer yourself, please twist some = arms. The IETF needs a strong pool of NomCom volunteers. Russ -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Nomcom 2020-2021 Second Call For Volunteers Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 11:54:56 -0700 From: NomCom Chair 2020 = To: IETF Announcement List = CC: ietf@ietf.org This is the second sending of the call for volunteers for the 2020-2021 = NomCom. I wanted to mention a few updates from the previous email (sent 2 weeks = ago): - I've fixed the URL at the bottom of the email to point to = https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2020/ = instead of /2019/. This was = a test to see if anyone was paying attention. Apparently, some people = were. ;) - The IETF 108 registration form includes a checkbox that will let you = volunteer. You can use this instead of emailing me, when you register = for IETF 108. - I currently have 39 volunteers. Last year had 149. I need more = volunteers! = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- The IETF NomCom appoints people to fill the open slots on the LLC, IETF = Trust, the IAB, and the IESG. Ten voting members for the NomCom are selected in a verifiably random = way from a pool of volunteers. The more volunteers, the better chance we = have of choosing a random yet representative cross section of the IETF = population. The details of the operation of the NomCom can be found in BCP 10 (RFC = 8713). RFC 3797 details the selection algorithm. Special for this year (and only this year), we also have RFC 8788 = (one-off update to RFC 8713 / BCP 10) to tell us who is eligible to = volunteer: Members of the IETF community must have attended at least three of the last five in-person IETF meetings in order to volunteer. The five meetings are the five most recent in-person meetings that ended prior to the date on which the solicitation for NomCom volunteers was submitted for distribution to the IETF community. Because no IETF 107 in-person meeting was held, for the 2020-2021 Nominating Committee those five meetings are IETFs 102 [Montreal, Canada; July 2018], 103 [Bangkok, Thailand; November 2018], 104 [Prague, Czech Republic; March 2019], 105 [Montreal, Canada; July 2019], and 106 [Singapore; November 2019]. Keep in mind that eligibility is based on in-person attendance at the = five listed meetings. You can check your eligibility at: = https://www.ietf.org/registration/nomcom.py = . If you qualify, please volunteer. Before you decide to volunteer, please = remember that anyone appointed to this NomCom will not be considered as = a candidate for any of the positions that the 2020 - 2021 NomCom is = responsible for filling. People commonly volunteer by ticking the box on IETF registration forms. = The IETF 106 form did not ask whether people were willing to volunteer. = IETF 107 did ask, but all those registrations were canceled. I have = asked the Secretariat if it is possible to get the list if volunteers = from canceled IETF 107 registrations. If that list is available, I will = contact all who are verified as eligible. But given the uncertainty of = this process, I would encourage people to volunteer directly (see the = bottom of this email for instructions). Thank you for volunteering! The list of people and posts whose terms end with the March 2021 IETF = meeting, and thus the positions for which this NomCom is responsible, = are IETF Trust: Joel Halpern LLC: Maja Andjelkovic IAB: Jari Arkko Jeff Tantsura Mark Nottingham Stephen Farrell Wes Hardaker Zhenbin Li IESG: Alissa Cooper, IETF Chair/GEN AD Alvaro Retana, RTG AD Barry Leiba, ART AD Deborah Brungard, RTG AD =C3=89ric Vyncke, INT AD Magnus Westerlund, TSV AD Roman Danyliw, SEC AD Warren Kumari, OPS AD All appointments are for 2 years. The Routing area has 3 ADs and the = General area has 1; all other areas have 2 ADs. Thus, all areas (that = have more than one AD) have at least one continuing AD. The primary activity for this NomCom will begin in July 2020 and should = be completed in January 2021. The NomCom will have regularly scheduled = conference calls to ensure progress. There will be activities to collect = requirements from the community, review candidate questionnaires, review = feedback from community members about candidates, and talk to = candidates. While being a NomCom member does require some time commitment it is also = a very rewarding experience. As a member of the NomCom it is very important that you be willing and = able to attend either videoconference or in-person meetings (which may = not happen) during 14-20 November (IETF 109 - Bangkok) to conduct = interviews. Videoconference attendance will be supported whether or not = there are in-person meetings. Orientation and setting of the NomCom = schedule will be done by videoconference during the week 20-24 July = (exact time and date to be determined after NomCom membership is = finalized on July 12), the week prior to IETF 108. Being at IETF 110 = (Prague) is not essential. Please volunteer by sending me an email before 23:59 UTC June 24, 2020, = as follows: To: nomcom-chair-2020@ietf.org Subject: NomCom 2020-21 Volunteer Please include the following information in the email body: Your Full Name: // as you write it on the IETF registration form Current Primary Affiliation: // Typically what goes in the Company field // in the IETF Registration Form Emails: // All email addresses used to register for the past 5 IETF = meetings // Preferred email address first Telephone: // For confirmation if selected You should expect an email response from me within 5 business days = stating whether or not you are qualified. If you don't receive this = response, please re-send your email with the tag "RESEND"" added to the = subject line. If you are not yet sure if you would like to volunteer, please consider = that NomCom members play a very important role in shaping the leadership = of the IETF. Questions by email or voice are welcome. Volunteering for = the NomCom is a great way to contribute to the IETF! You can find a detailed timeline on the NomCom web site at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/nomcom/2020/ = I will be publishing a more detailed target timetable, as well as = details of the randomness seeds to be used for the RFC 3797 selection = process, within the next few weeks. Thank you! Barbara Stark bs7652 at att dot com nomcom-chair-2020 at ietf dot org --Apple-Mail=_D9CCABF7-2794-4EC4-8E99-7CC7C7F4DCAD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 =20 =20

Please volunteer.  If you cannot = volunteer yourself, please twist some arms.  The IETF needs a = strong pool of NomCom volunteers.

Russ


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Nomcom 2020-2021 Second Call For = Volunteers
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 11:54:56 -0700
From: NomCom Chair 2020 <nomcom-chair-2020@ietf.org&= gt;
To: IETF Announcement List <ietf-announce@ietf.org><= /td>
CC: ietf@ietf.org


This is the second sending of the call for volunteers for the 2020-2021 NomCom.

I wanted to mention a few updates from the previous email (sent 2 weeks ago):
- I've fixed the URL at the bottom of the email to point to https://datatracker.iet= f.org/nomcom/2020/ instead of /2019/. This was a test to see if anyone was paying attention. Apparently, some people were. ;)
- The IETF 108 registration form includes a checkbox that will let you volunteer. You can use this instead of emailing me, when you register for IETF 108.
- I currently have 39 volunteers. Last year had 149. I need more volunteers!
= --------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------
The IETF NomCom appoints people to fill the open slots on the LLC, IETF Trust, the IAB, and the IESG.

Ten voting members for the NomCom are selected in a verifiably random way from a pool of volunteers. The more volunteers, the better chance we have of choosing a random yet representative cross section of the IETF population.

The details of the operation of the NomCom can be found in BCP 10 (RFC 8713). RFC 3797 details the selection algorithm.
=
Special for this year (and only this year), we also have RFC 8788 (one-off update to RFC 8713 / BCP 10) to tell us who is eligible to volunteer:

Members of the IETF community must have attended at least three = of
the last five in-person IETF meetings in order to volunteer.

The five meetings are the five most recent in-person meetings = that
ended prior to the date on which the solicitation for NomCom
volunteers was submitted for distribution to the IETF = community.
Because no IETF 107 in-person meeting was held, for the = 2020-2021
Nominating Committee those five meetings are IETFs
102 [Montreal, Canada; July 2018],
103 [Bangkok, Thailand; November 2018],
104 [Prague, Czech Republic; March 2019],
105 [Montreal, Canada; July 2019], and 106 [Singapore; November 2019].

Keep in mind that eligibility is based on in-person attendance at the five listed meetings. You can check your eligibility at: https://www.ietf.org/= registration/nomcom.py.

If you qualify, please volunteer. Before you decide to volunteer, please remember that anyone appointed to this NomCom will not be considered as a candidate for any of the positions that the 2020 - 2021 NomCom is responsible for filling.

People commonly volunteer by ticking the box on IETF registration forms. The IETF 106 form did not ask whether people were willing to volunteer. IETF 107 did ask, but all those registrations were canceled. I have asked the Secretariat if it is possible to get the list if volunteers from canceled IETF 107 registrations. If that list is available, I will contact all who are verified as eligible. But given the uncertainty of this process, I would encourage people to volunteer directly (see the bottom of this email for instructions). Thank you for volunteering!

The list of people and posts whose terms end with the March 2021 IETF meeting, and thus the positions for which this NomCom is responsible, are

IETF Trust:
Joel Halpern

LLC:
Maja Andjelkovic

IAB:
Jari Arkko
Jeff Tantsura
Mark Nottingham
Stephen Farrell
Wes Hardaker
Zhenbin Li

IESG:
Alissa Cooper, IETF Chair/GEN AD
Alvaro Retana, RTG AD
Barry Leiba, ART AD
Deborah Brungard, RTG AD
=C3=89ric Vyncke, INT AD
Magnus Westerlund, TSV AD
Roman Danyliw, SEC AD
Warren Kumari, OPS AD

All appointments are for 2 years. The Routing area has 3 ADs and the General area has 1; all other areas have 2 ADs. Thus, all areas (that have more than one AD) have at least one continuing AD.

The primary activity for this NomCom will begin in July 2020 and should be completed in January 2021. The NomCom will have regularly scheduled conference calls to ensure progress. There will be activities to collect requirements from the community, review candidate questionnaires, review feedback from community members about candidates, and talk to candidates.

While being a NomCom member does require some time commitment it is also a very rewarding experience.

As a member of the NomCom it is very important that you be willing and able to attend either videoconference or in-person meetings (which may not happen) during 14-20 November (IETF 109 - Bangkok) to conduct interviews. Videoconference attendance will be supported whether or not there are in-person meetings. Orientation and setting of the NomCom schedule will be done by videoconference during the week 20-24 July (exact time and date to be determined after NomCom membership is finalized on July 12), the week prior to IETF 108. Being at IETF 110 (Prague) is not essential.

Please volunteer by sending me an email before 23:59 UTC June 24, 2020, as follows:

To: nomcom-chair-2020@ietf.org<= br class=3D""> Subject: NomCom 2020-21 Volunteer

Please include the following information in the email body:

Your Full Name: // as you write it on the IETF registration = form

Current Primary Affiliation:
// Typically what goes in the Company field
// in the IETF Registration Form

Emails: // All email addresses used to register for the past 5 IETF meetings
// Preferred email address first

Telephone: // For confirmation if selected

You should expect an email response from me within 5 business days stating whether or not you are qualified. If you don't receive this response, please re-send your email with the tag "RESEND"" added to the subject line.

If you are not yet sure if you would like to volunteer, please consider that NomCom members play a very important role in shaping the leadership of the IETF. Questions by email or voice are welcome. Volunteering for the NomCom is a great way to contribute to the IETF!

You can find a detailed timeline on the NomCom web site at:
https://datatracker.iet= f.org/nomcom/2020/

I will be publishing a more detailed target timetable, as well as details of the randomness seeds to be used for the RFC 3797 selection process, within the next few weeks.

Thank you!

Barbara Stark
bs7652 at att dot com
nomcom-chair-2020 at ietf dot org
= --Apple-Mail=_D9CCABF7-2794-4EC4-8E99-7CC7C7F4DCAD-- From nobody Thu Jun 11 15:17:32 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 117763A07DB; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 15:17:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FR3S0ryFsNKj; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 15:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76D4C3A07E7; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 15:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CE893898D; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 18:14:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 3rTF-Ok5kwy6; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 18:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 310523898C; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 18:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6294B2A2; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 18:17:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Brendan Moran , suit Reply-to: suit@ietf.org cc: lwip@ietf.org, "opsawg\@ietf.org" , sacm In-Reply-To: <018B67EC-89A6-4880-99E2-1A3FAB5960E4@arm.com> References: <22789.1591719213@localhost> <018B67EC-89A6-4880-99E2-1A3FAB5960E4@arm.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] next steps in clarifying scoping terminology for SUIT, CoSWID, MUD and SBOM X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 22:17:31 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain {Please no negative aspersions were intended!} Brendan Moran wrote: > I think there may be some misconceptions about SUIT here. So, let's distinguish what draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 *CAN* do, from what the *SUIT* *WG* needs to be able to defend. So, we often articially limit applicability for solutions in order to be able to get complete coverage, particularly when it comes to Security Considerations. We then can come back, write a new applicability statement and extend usage. It is my understanding that this is what the WG is doing. >> This group will focus on defining a firmware update solution (taking into >> account past learnings from RFC 4108 and other firmware update solutions) that >> will be usable on Class 1 (as defined in RFC 7228) devices, i.e., devices with >> ~10 KiB RAM and ~100 KiB flash. The solution may apply to more capable devices >> as well. > The suit manifest does, happily, apply to more capable devices. The > suit manifest is, in principle, being adopted in TEEP, which targets > more capable devices. Yes, that's definitely true. And quite reasonably the things which are deployed into the secure enclaves managed by the TEEP Agent might look a lot like "APPs", and I would not fault some marketing person who wanted to call them "Trusted Apps" [Afterall, we more or less call them that in the TEEP Intro, and then use the term TA from when on], but, there is a lot of difference in the attack surface for a TEEP TA than for an Android APK due to the number of linkages to other services in Android, the use of Dalvik VM (and it's replacement whose name I've forgotten), down to the libc that it uses and the kernel underneath. > Certainly, the design of suit was explicitly intended to target Class 1 > devices, however I am not aware of any missing feature or any missing > functionality that would inherently restrict SUIT from being used for > many component, high capability systems. > I see no inherent problem with using suit manifests to deploy > smartphone apps, docker containers, VM images, linux packages, kernel > images, recovery partitions or bootloaders. In SUIT we have stayed away from saying anything about the contents of the blob. It can be a compressed file system, Intel HEX code, or even tar.gz. What I *think* that we agree is that there ought *not* be 1292 blobs, each one a different *file*. It wouldn't be wrong, and it probably would work, but if it turned out it was O(n^2) [or O(2^n)!] in the number of blobs, then that would be a concern, wouldn't it? I haven't thought about this, nor do I expect to, since I think n<10. So, I did say *specifically* that I do expect to use SUIT for: docker containers VM images kernel images recovery partitions bootloaders I'm less sure that it should admit that it can be used for apps and linux packages, because I'm very much certain that the Security Considerations for some of this will overwhelm us, and overwhelm the readers. In particular the dependancy relationship that often needs to be expressed can be quite complex. Can our MANIFEST be extended to support it? I'm sure. Should we spend the time now? No, because, I don't think those constituencies want to replace what they have now. > Please could you explain what the problem you see is that would make > suit inappropriate for smartphone apps or many-component systems. I hope that I have explained myself. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl7irXQACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVcOwgAhUs6aEH+wQOTrToIlNb0JPOireDy5T030tJolJH60CK0ZvVye4KHgmNz Zwwr7CTwSL9lgx9SbSSLWofy+J77+SixXQhtJTuuHiBnLHusLBUaisddnfB/Roy6 FoYdkPUBgxyyS9S/yitmCRgjRNt+NJCEpLiz7ijzi/XpcvRgpNTQSAykdoLFAlnv Nw4gV3n+9+UJ3zrN8ZpkYOtPen1T4lGtoNzAmEu1bKap2+3jo2HGsmht7ROKmtQ4 VnD9dWzqTMmSGYnHTOEdkQXGJ+DU8u2tfOHMA6RNAFNLbGBDffpt7ZfIIfxhQDgi Z9XafbH3br1gVcNIw/ooAErhdiCA0g== =SQkV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sun Jun 14 14:23:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FE683A00B2; Sun, 14 Jun 2020 14:23:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.792 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.792 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, LOCALPART_IN_SUBJECT=1.107, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2FgmbKOx7_2I; Sun, 14 Jun 2020 14:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D8813A00B0; Sun, 14 Jun 2020 14:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2065389FD; Sun, 14 Jun 2020 17:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id fn1erizQuSpV; Sun, 14 Jun 2020 17:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 093F4389FB; Sun, 14 Jun 2020 17:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBACD75F; Sun, 14 Jun 2020 17:23:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: draft-moran-suit-mud@ietf.org, suit@ietf.org cc: Eliot Lear , opsawg@ietf.org, rats@ietf.org, Henk Birkholz X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] draft-moran-suit-mud, EAT and MUD X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2020 21:23:18 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Hi, I read draft-moran-suit-mud today. It would naturally fall into a MUD WG if we had that. As it is, I have no idea where to discuss this, and thus another shotgun. I gather the mailman deletes my Reply-To suggestions. I feel that this document should be adopted and the details filed in, but I have no idea what WG it belongs in given the current state of things. {It totally fits into the IoT lifecycle security WG I had proposed} I knew it was around since it was talked about at the Hackathon a bunch, but I hadn't read the result until today. If you use Hypothesis my comments are at: https://hyp.is/go?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-moran-suit-mud-00.html&group=__world__ I'm not sure what that does if you don't have the plugin installed. I'd prefer to write them as a pull request since they are mostly suggestions on fixing some wording rather than any kind of substantive request for changes. Substantive comments: "At the time of onboarding, devices report their manifest in use to the MUD manager." so I think that we will need to detail this!!! When using an IDevID based onboarding system (BRSKI/BRSKI-TEEP/BRSKI-AE or EAP-NOOB with some certificate based system) then the MUD certificate OID is available. But, that's not the manifest of the software currently running, and it would not be reasonable to embed that into the IDevID for the reasons I explain at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-richardson-opsawg-mud-acceptable-urls-00#section-2 More interesting is that you are requesting: Each time a device is updated, rebooted, or otherwise substantially changed, it will execute an attestation. Among other claims in the Entity Attestation Token (EAT) [I-D.ietf-rats-eat], the device will report its software digest(s), configuration digest(s), primary manifest URI, and primary manifest digest to the MUD manager. Well, that attestation is actually ideal for use during onboarding as well. It seems to me that the path of trust should go like: 1) (Manufacturer IDevID PKI) -> IDevID. 2) IDevID -> "generic" MUD file (signed by key from Manufacturer PKI <%>) 3) MUD file -> identifies key that signs firmware manifests 4) SUIT MANIFEST -> "specific" (per version) MUD file I had previous suggested that the SBOM be attached to the per-version MUD file, but I am not so sure anymore. Note that the EAT described above would be *Evidence* (not Attestation Results), per the architecture. It would be signed by the IDevID in <2>. Finally, if you didn't see my message to secdispatch about IDevID. https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/secdispatch/Hqe1lHG2wnW_9NxJLazEYbmGYN0/ -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl7mlT8ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVWsgf/RbQyeq1Nc5xk9rQAXMrIgN3iftaR/n8plHYo3a08wgn2nGQbMYmdt53g VYhKNfwW0JlpFEWlT1enqusqWGzJXAaXC1q9eHxlzbHnhm6QWECnVzLEQ/EO3BbR IPHy+sc57ZonkQwzww69Re2iruquxCX+vg89dBxfO5qatSOV3H7U6XWr3+zXIIgT ddeB+XUEtkXW9K7Y6Wp0OykMTdCiVIKFg59GHdXviJDnO2RqmNrmjOg/DEzXALP0 5lVGbsSTVX2zHvw6vEBRmBogVBK+10gvrVDZdD3RzoylLjHSsYbtp1OS0W3ftHkt b93aGFymtOdh9wAW76i+nEm6cHQIaQ== =fO03 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue Jun 16 09:22:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DAEA3A18D6 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 09:22:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YaYMEFXU8UvU for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 09:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEE133A18CC for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 09:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6272C300AA3 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:22:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id z6tJdy64I4MA for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-72-66-113-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.113.56]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BC13D300A55 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:22:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BE3725AC-D008-44CD-B077-020C37AB9B56" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 12:22:18 -0400 To: suit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Ripple20 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 16:22:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BE3725AC-D008-44CD-B077-020C37AB9B56 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Just in case anyone forgot why SUIT is so important to the IoT = ecosystem... = https://thehackernews.com/2020/06/new-critical-flaws-put-billions-of.html?= utm_source=3Dfeedburner&utm_medium=3Dfeed&utm_campaign=3DFeed%3A+TheHacker= sNews+%28The+Hackers+News+-+Cyber+Security+Blog%29&_m=3D3n.009a.2250.sd0ao= 0e9al.1eue = --Apple-Mail=_BE3725AC-D008-44CD-B077-020C37AB9B56 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Just in case anyone forgot why = SUIT is so important to the IoT ecosystem...


https://thehackernews.com/2020/06/new-critical-flaws-put-billio= ns-of.html?utm_source=3Dfeedburner&utm_medium=3Dfeed&utm_campaign=3D= Feed%3A+TheHackersNews+%28The+Hackers+News+-+Cyber+Security+Blog%29&_m= =3D3n.009a.2250.sd0ao0e9al.1eue



= --Apple-Mail=_BE3725AC-D008-44CD-B077-020C37AB9B56-- From nobody Tue Jun 16 09:39:54 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89A163A00C0 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 09:39:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s8JbOKTneUZP for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 09:39:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5EAED3A00C4 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 09:39:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4208; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1592325572; x=1593535172; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=lSnz3UVolIZ4Mk8Yp4WmktniTasghoKUC82DujyEO1E=; b=YJt0sYqoW4bBiP46Vo21FmYPUJ7kiR9yhuXuyEerbXFzIQNu8DnpaOoU twqHu7Sb6MWboItQa1Ud68RpKXSsvKv6Z3prmkGVMJdUvSos6Hgnoe3by 3DZbkmcZJQeEi3pGQERXXdLuy7xVmj/RkasP+me0h0CXgKgkNlDM1MXug s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CoAADL9Ohe/xbLJq1mGgEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEDAQEBARIBAQEBAgIBAQEBQIFKAoEhgQdvVAEgEiyNJYgIk2qIEgsBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?MAQEYAQcPBAEBhEUCghglOBMCAwEBCwEBBQEBAQIBBgRthVsMQgEQAYUeAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQIBAQFsCwULCwQULicwBhMagwwBglwgD7UcdIE0hDoBgRaFCAaBOAGMdII?= =?us-ascii?q?AgREnHIJNPoJcAQECFAOFDYItBLRCgmSDAYU+kGADHZ5omyqQWINOAgQGBQI?= =?us-ascii?q?VgWoigVYzGggbFTsqAYI+PhIZDZIPhRSFRD8DMAIBAQEIKgIGCAEBAwmGMYp?= =?us-ascii?q?kAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.73,518,1583193600"; d="scan'208,217"; a="27113785" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 16 Jun 2020 16:39:28 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-61-101-14.cisco.com (dhcp-10-61-101-14.cisco.com [10.61.101.14]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 05GGdRut031483 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Jun 2020 16:39:28 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <9D9F401F-3DD8-48F7-92F5-9B5AAEF1D8E0@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_48111F68-3B91-4524-82E9-EF2773FC0967" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:39:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: suit To: Russ Housley References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.101.14, dhcp-10-61-101-14.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Ripple20 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 16:39:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_48111F68-3B91-4524-82E9-EF2773FC0967 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks for passing that along, Russ. This is also an interesting test = case for the discussion that we just had re SBOM. The focus of that = work has largely been on OSS. Well. Eliot > On 16 Jun 2020, at 18:22, Russ Housley wrote: >=20 > Just in case anyone forgot why SUIT is so important to the IoT = ecosystem... >=20 > = https://thehackernews.com/2020/06/new-critical-flaws-put-billions-of.html?= utm_source=3Dfeedburner&utm_medium=3Dfeed&utm_campaign=3DFeed%3A+TheHacker= sNews+%28The+Hackers+News+-+Cyber+Security+Blog%29&_m=3D3n.009a.2250.sd0ao= 0e9al.1eue = >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit --Apple-Mail=_48111F68-3B91-4524-82E9-EF2773FC0967 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Thanks for passing that along, Russ.  This is also an = interesting test case for the discussion that we just had re SBOM. =  The focus of that work has largely been on OSS.  Well.

Eliot

On 16 Jun 2020, at 18:22, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com> wrote:

Just in = case anyone forgot why SUIT is so important to the IoT = ecosystem...

https://thehackernews.com/2020/06/new-critical-flaws-put-billio= ns-of.html?utm_source=3Dfeedburner&utm_medium=3Dfeed&utm_campaign=3D= Feed%3A+TheHackersNews+%28The+Hackers+News+-+Cyber+Security+Blog%29&_m= =3D3n.009a.2250.sd0ao0e9al.1eue


_____________________________________________= __
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit

= --Apple-Mail=_48111F68-3B91-4524-82E9-EF2773FC0967-- From nobody Tue Jun 16 10:12:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 940EC3A0783 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 10:12:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4D_kTn4T2GaF for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 10:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 542E03A077D for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 10:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id A99445C0035; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 13:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 16 Jun 2020 13:12:05 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=fD1Xb9 sygLdQR2OFyC9ZoTaml0KMV83UT8hMmkVAMeE=; b=nOT1+zQKdHukhANwQSawrJ PeCFY//u8EsJGH+/PGQAw4Rb01gHHSURVgp1y0mgTfIU8DeHUW621NjgbmWYx7rG HZykQkobtIBtxauFnaMM70P4hlMvhl5/qhK7ND2OWPf/jZARm9U1mBV94Xbas2Jt yeHcudg5nKxuh6NWP8NX/JVaE8EgpA7GsW+NMo9sBMQxSdjCFbLjORhltxWEeEjx D1nz1DQmMl3ghMQOVvFXvt4UtkXF6P67t7qymJw6XleExEzGfJnBg7NQc4mnvqSX jAl+QDH8eHTUNExp9VrLEpftNZuriJSxI0Ws42d07cG5GZ+xvHcOJusCvohEMGNQ == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudejtddguddufecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefhvfhfjgfuffhokfggtgfothesrhdtghepvddtvdenucfhrhhomhepfdff ihgtkhcuuehrohhokhhsfdcuoeguihgtkhesrhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrg hlhihtihgtshdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepkedvvedugfejvdfhveehhfej gfdvgeegtddvtdffueegjeekheefveekteeiteeunecuffhomhgrihhnpehrvghlihgrsg hlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihthhitghsrdgtohhmpdhthhgvhhgrtghkvghrnhgvfihs rdgtohhmpdhivghtfhdrohhrghenucfkphepvdduiedrudelfedrudegvddrvddvnecuve hluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepughitghksehr vghlihgrsghlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihthhitghsrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Received: from farpoint (unknown [216.193.142.22]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1C458328005D; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 13:12:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: "'Eliot Lear'" , "'Russ Housley'" Cc: "'suit'" References: <9D9F401F-3DD8-48F7-92F5-9B5AAEF1D8E0@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <9D9F401F-3DD8-48F7-92F5-9B5AAEF1D8E0@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 13:12:00 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <44c701d64401$415e3f40$c41abdc0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_44C8_01D643DF.BA4FAC80" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQG+wxrzAypCg1McIomWLtn0vlY2pAG9USWcqPyO9YA= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Ripple20 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:12:09 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_44C8_01D643DF.BA4FAC80 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_44C9_01D643DF.BA4FAC80" ------=_NextPart_001_44C9_01D643DF.BA4FAC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eliot, I want to thank you for pointing me to the NTIA SBOM work. I spoke with Allan Friedman of NTIA this morning. I explained the importance of having SBOM metadata aligned with CVE database vendors to enable automated CVE searches that should produce a better signal/noise ratio as part of a risk assessment supporting NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 (software verification). Today's CVE search results produce a significant number of false positives, rendering them nearly useless. FYI: I've offered to assist NTIA within the energy industry, hopefully starting with a communication to DOE regarding the 5/1 emergency Executive Order on cybersecurity and the potential benefits of an SBOM. Thanks, Dick Brooks Never trust software, always verify and report! T http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 From: Suit On Behalf Of Eliot Lear Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 12:39 PM To: Russ Housley Cc: suit Subject: Re: [Suit] Ripple20 Thanks for passing that along, Russ. This is also an interesting test case for the discussion that we just had re SBOM. The focus of that work has largely been on OSS. Well. Eliot On 16 Jun 2020, at 18:22, Russ Housley > wrote: Just in case anyone forgot why SUIT is so important to the IoT ecosystem... https://thehackernews.com/2020/06/new-critical-flaws-put-billions-of.html?ut m_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheHackersNews+%28T he+Hackers+News+-+Cyber+Security+Blog%29&_m=3n.009a.2250.sd0ao0e9al.1eue _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit ------=_NextPart_001_44C9_01D643DF.BA4FAC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Eliot,

 

         &= nbsp;      I want to thank you for pointing me = to the NTIA SBOM work. I spoke with Allan Friedman of NTIA this morning. = I explained the importance of having SBOM metadata aligned with CVE = database vendors to enable automated CVE searches that should produce a = better signal/noise ratio as part of  a risk assessment supporting = NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 (software verification). Today’s CVE = search results produce a significant number of false positives, = rendering them nearly useless.

 

FYI: =  I’ve offered to assist NTIA within the energy industry, = hopefully starting with a communication to DOE regarding the 5/1 = emergency Executive Order on cybersecurity and the potential benefits of = an SBOM.

 

 

 

From: Suit = <suit-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Eliot = Lear
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 12:39 PM
To: Russ = Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
Cc: suit = <suit@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Suit] = Ripple20

 

Thanks for = passing that along, Russ.  This is also an interesting test case = for the discussion that we just had re SBOM.  The focus of that = work has largely been on OSS.  Well.

 

Eliot



On 16 Jun 2020, at 18:22, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com> = wrote:

 

 

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aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 16 Jun 2020 17:30:00 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-61-101-14.cisco.com (dhcp-10-61-101-14.cisco.com [10.61.101.14]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 05GHTxbH009888 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:29:59 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_077CAD33-67C5-4493-B4ED-534F50CB37C0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 19:29:58 +0200 In-Reply-To: <44c701d64401$415e3f40$c41abdc0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> Cc: Eliot Lear , Russ Housley , suit To: Dick Brooks References: <9D9F401F-3DD8-48F7-92F5-9B5AAEF1D8E0@cisco.com> <44c701d64401$415e3f40$c41abdc0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.101.14, dhcp-10-61-101-14.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Ripple20 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:30:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_077CAD33-67C5-4493-B4ED-534F50CB37C0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Dick > On 16 Jun 2020, at 19:12, Dick Brooks = wrote: >=20 > Eliot, > =20 > I want to thank you for pointing me to the NTIA SBOM = work. I spoke with Allan Friedman of NTIA this morning. I explained the = importance of having SBOM metadata aligned with CVE database vendors to = enable automated CVE searches that should produce a better signal/noise = ratio as part of a risk assessment supporting NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part = 1.6 (software verification). Today=E2=80=99s CVE search results produce = a significant number of false positives, rendering them nearly useless. Right. Until someone does an evaluation, there=E2=80=99s almost no = point. How this would work with the NTIA model is that those products = that publish SBOMs would immediately be considered potentially = vulnerable, and then VEX would provide the opportunity to refine that to = =E2=80=9Cnot vulnerable=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cvulnerable with = workaround=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cvulnerable with fix=E2=80=9D, etc. I do have a question for the chairs/AD. I realize that this is a bit = out of scope for SUIT. Is there a more appropriate list we should be = vectored to? Thanks for the group=E2=80=99s indulgence to this point. Eliot > =20 > FYI: I=E2=80=99ve offered to assist NTIA within the energy industry, = hopefully starting with a communication to DOE regarding the 5/1 = emergency Executive Order on cybersecurity and the potential benefits of = an SBOM. > =20 > =20 > Thanks, > =20 > Dick Brooks > > Never trust software, always verify and report! = =E2=84=A2 > http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com = > Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com = > Tel: +1 978-696-1788 > =20 > From: Suit On Behalf Of Eliot Lear > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 12:39 PM > To: Russ Housley > Cc: suit > Subject: Re: [Suit] Ripple20 > =20 > Thanks for passing that along, Russ. This is also an interesting test = case for the discussion that we just had re SBOM. The focus of that = work has largely been on OSS. Well. > =20 > Eliot >=20 >=20 >> On 16 Jun 2020, at 18:22, Russ Housley > wrote: >> =20 >> Just in case anyone forgot why SUIT is so important to the IoT = ecosystem... >> =20 >> = https://thehackernews.com/2020/06/new-critical-flaws-put-billions-of.html?= utm_source=3Dfeedburner&utm_medium=3Dfeed&utm_campaign=3DFeed%3A+TheHacker= sNews+%28The+Hackers+News+-+Cyber+Security+Blog%29&_m=3D3n.009a.2250.sd0ao= 0e9al.1eue = >> =20 >> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Suit mailing list >> Suit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit = > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit --Apple-Mail=_077CAD33-67C5-4493-B4ED-534F50CB37C0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Dick

On 16 Jun 2020, at 19:12, Dick Brooks <dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com> wrote:

Eliot,
 
          &nb= sp;     I want to thank you for pointing me to the = NTIA SBOM work. I spoke with Allan Friedman of NTIA this morning. I = explained the importance of having SBOM metadata aligned with CVE = database vendors to enable automated CVE searches that should produce a = better signal/noise ratio as part of  a risk assessment supporting = NERC CIP-010-3 R1, Part 1.6 (software verification). Today=E2=80=99s CVE = search results produce a significant number of false positives, = rendering them nearly useless.

Right.  Until someone does an evaluation, = there=E2=80=99s almost no point.  How this would work with the NTIA = model is that those products that publish SBOMs would immediately be = considered potentially vulnerable, and then VEX would provide the = opportunity to refine that to =E2=80=9Cnot vulnerable=E2=80=9D to = =E2=80=9Cvulnerable with workaround=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9Cvulnerable with = fix=E2=80=9D, etc.

I do have a = question for the chairs/AD.  I realize that this is a bit out of = scope for SUIT.  Is there a more appropriate list we should be = vectored to?  Thanks for the group=E2=80=99s indulgence to this = point.

Eliot

 
FYI: =  I=E2=80=99ve offered to assist NTIA within the energy industry, = hopefully starting with a communication to DOE regarding the 5/1 = emergency Executive Order on cybersecurity and the potential benefits of = an SBOM.
 
 
Thanks,
 
Dick Brooks
<image001.jpg>
Never trust software, always verify and = report! =E2=84=A2
http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com
Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com
Tel: +1 = 978-696-1788
 
From: Suit <suit-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of Eliot Lear
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 = 12:39 PM
To: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
Cc: suit = <suit@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Suit] Ripple20
 
Thanks for passing that along, Russ.  This is also an = interesting test case for the discussion that we just had re SBOM. =  The focus of that work has largely been on OSS.  Well.
 
Eliot


On 16 Jun 2020, at 18:22, Russ Housley = <housley@vigilsec.com> = wrote:
 
Just in case anyone forgot why SUIT is so important to the = IoT ecosystem...
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit
 
_______________________________________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit

= --Apple-Mail=_077CAD33-67C5-4493-B4ED-534F50CB37C0-- From nobody Tue Jun 16 14:22:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040E83A07A6; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:22:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cert.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QT-r7qIrPGY0; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from taper.sei.cmu.edu (taper.sei.cmu.edu [147.72.252.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF8423A079C; 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Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:52:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: "'Roman Danyliw'" , "'Eliot Lear'" Cc: "'suit'" , "'Russ Housley'" , "'Friedman, Allan'" References: <9D9F401F-3DD8-48F7-92F5-9B5AAEF1D8E0@cisco.com> <44c701d64401$415e3f40$c41abdc0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <6e24de15cc5e4477aed5ec9914893e6c@cert.org> In-Reply-To: <6e24de15cc5e4477aed5ec9914893e6c@cert.org> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:52:26 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <016501d64428$6f2dc720$4d895560$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQG+wxrzAypCg1McIomWLtn0vlY2pAG9USWcAje9f/8A0CEt1QJZ4WjnqNHLqiA= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Ripple20 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:52:36 -0000 Thank you, Roman. The focus on SBOM took an interesting twist in May when Edison Electric = Institute released boilerplate procurement language specifying that = software vendors supply SBOM's as part of the NERC Supply Chain = standards that are scheduled to go into effect on 10/1/2020.=20 https://www.eei.org/issuesandpolicy/Documents/EEI%20Law%20-%20Model%20Pro= curement%20Contract%20Language.pdf Excerpt from EEI procurement language I'm referring to:=20 Requirement R1.2.5 Verification of software integrity and authenticity = of all software and patches provided by the vendor for use in the BES = Cyber System. Proposed EEI Contract Language Hardware, Firmware, Software, and Patch Integrity and Authenticity: ... (e) Contractor shall provide a software bill of materials for procured = (including licensed) products consisting of a list of components and = associated metadata that make up a component. With regard to vulnerability reporting: I'm currently working with the = Oasis-Open CTI workgroup developing STIX and TAXII standards; = https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/cti/index.php=20 I've also heard that NIST is working on some enhancements to the NVD = that may offer some improved search results with a better signal/noise = ratio (less false positives). The ideal scenario would be to have standardized SBOM data and semantics = that are also used in the vulnerability search criteria of the = vulnerability databases; this would provide a level of interoperability = that the energy industry could really benefit from in their software = risk assessment controls.=20 Thanks, Dick Brooks Never trust software, always verify and report! =E2=84=A2 http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 -----Original Message----- From: Roman Danyliw =20 Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 5:23 PM To: Eliot Lear ; Dick Brooks = Cc: suit ; Russ Housley Subject: RE: [Suit] Ripple20 Hi! [snip] > I do have a question for the chairs/AD. I realize that this is a bit=20 > out of scope for SUIT. Is there a more appropriate list we should be = vectored to? Thanks for the group=E2=80=99s indulgence to this point. A timely and important topic here. Indeed, solving SBOM directly is out = of scope for the current SUIT charter, but this list seems like the = closest we currently have to discussing security issues in the software = supply chain. I'm fine with it staying on suit@ietf. If the volume = increases, we can certainly make a dedicated list. As exchanging CVE data was discussed too, the MILE WG has work in = exchanging vulnerability data, but not with the lens suggested here. Thanks for checking Regards, Roman From nobody Tue Jun 16 18:18:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5273A0CE5 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:18:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kXk3teDnAmLk for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:18:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-x32f.google.com (mail-ot1-x32f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8304E3A0CE6 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:18:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id n6so342005otl.0 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:18:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=QVT2YiCzaxf+1GLwLvRO4pxU+esUfYUnlOzbnfeJ0n4=; b=n4D62ZLqA2U0SNy5ySC6j4oieBKenJvM2v3Z+8COnIrRcp/0FX0Wwb3vkrN9kRTtbM DMgINjtV5pwE5qemL2PanVaH+Lm7sgtxRoFMD22xTHMsf7/t0oGRriCztJ4b/iiB3T0f AXmpTGfbV57hj3Na9ozLztEHxIHt3q9ewYGnxJAj12UK5Ye81wPMaL/6VOS4g8GP9/YY lonngzl01z7Xhsv4AeLhV1k+DM4dfmMaZW0sVAiHXIu4MKshJIv9st/DNTa5MuISPsJA S5JWtVCeRoQ6hiuapX/xDQ+KEn92twJdh65vKzy7V1KOC29fHd/GSABC0DKFB+lE55gC 0jIw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QVT2YiCzaxf+1GLwLvRO4pxU+esUfYUnlOzbnfeJ0n4=; b=g2kkKcB7vZsOOSp/Xji7g0Dc2cX2e1McgphExNaiFzBbcCCytcLeXYQSZl1lZr6uVn aXBjpUW8+TLPrAM3GNF3RVxq5wWKUHm7ZF8f3FJdYQFC7lMom6mzp0H55b26zfQLHh0n tUTWiHqQL8M4QCvxYRBngZhawngzPTLXHPXs5OdKb5NWyzohUXttizju5UqKIhzWiged JHikWosK1y9aKRlDsrfVDHuy7dcI4L5SSrKKcB7APO+XqHKK/LGponmeFQ6zakQXMIqZ 7421yVR5jNjudAgnCNxbW5n4g0ZgZbFe84m4nK1dWxfT0UqGhb2JC/lTO23ofZq2UzpA X2MA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533fiBhHvONpN0uklN0/73bz3g3D7PJIzC3N3227zAs63pDHvcC+ UDeJdkXdaRldVgyIV5b3Mn9KTg7DQvMi3nc+52E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJziJiJ2qCrDCCUaJ6koeXjcrz2bsYRq+ZjgktcE8ndDhvZ1w5CRz4RIN/pZzzkxpu8TMYjypSQG2gUT0BT1RSE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6830:141a:: with SMTP id v26mr4890096otp.250.1592356692732; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:18:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9D9F401F-3DD8-48F7-92F5-9B5AAEF1D8E0@cisco.com> <44c701d64401$415e3f40$c41abdc0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <6e24de15cc5e4477aed5ec9914893e6c@cert.org> In-Reply-To: <6e24de15cc5e4477aed5ec9914893e6c@cert.org> From: Kathleen Moriarty Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:17:36 -0400 Message-ID: To: Roman Danyliw Cc: Eliot Lear , Dick Brooks , Russ Housley , suit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000006b05b05a83d6f38" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Ripple20 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 01:18:15 -0000 --00000000000006b05b05a83d6f38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With a quick look, it seems like there could be ties into RATS as well. Best regards, Kathleen On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 5:22 PM Roman Danyliw wrote: > Hi! > > [snip] > > > I do have a question for the chairs/AD. I realize that this is a bit > out of scope for SUIT. > > Is there a more appropriate list we should be vectored to? Thanks for > the group=E2=80=99s indulgence to this point. > > A timely and important topic here. Indeed, solving SBOM directly is out > of scope for the current SUIT charter, but this list seems like the close= st > we currently have to discussing security issues in the software supply > chain. I'm fine with it staying on suit@ietf. If the volume increases, > we can certainly make a dedicated list. > > As exchanging CVE data was discussed too, the MILE WG has work in > exchanging vulnerability data, but not with the lens suggested here. > > Thanks for checking > > Regards, > Roman > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit > --=20 Best regards, Kathleen --00000000000006b05b05a83d6f38 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
With a quick look, it seems like there could be ties into = RATS as well.

Best regards,
Kathleen

On T= ue, Jun 16, 2020 at 5:22 PM Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org> wrote:
Hi!

[snip]

> I do have a question for the chairs/AD.=C2=A0 I realize that this is a= bit out of scope for SUIT. =C2=A0
> Is there a more appropriate list we should be vectored to?=C2=A0 Thank= s for the group=E2=80=99s indulgence to this point.

A timely and important topic here.=C2=A0 Indeed, solving SBOM directly is o= ut of scope for the current SUIT charter, but this list seems like the clos= est we currently have to discussing security issues in the software supply = chain.=C2=A0 I'm fine with it staying on suit@ietf.=C2=A0 If the volume= increases, we can certainly make a dedicated list.

As exchanging CVE data was discussed too, the MILE WG has work in exchangin= g vulnerability data, but not with the lens suggested here.

Thanks for checking

Regards,
Roman
_______________________________________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit


--

Best regards,
Kathleen
--00000000000006b05b05a83d6f38-- From nobody Thu Jun 18 11:43:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3D303A0E18 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:43:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YNQOkw6VJo38 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D0193A0E17 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 11:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0558E300B43 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:43:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id zLstBFBZWMaX for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-72-66-113-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.113.56]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6A840300B1A for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:43:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:43:02 -0400 References: <8B18059D-608B-41AD-B12D-8BB33895B402@vigilsec.com> <3A876E1C-225F-4667-97E5-506C682A8364@vigilsec.com> To: suit In-Reply-To: <3A876E1C-225F-4667-97E5-506C682A8364@vigilsec.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Doodle pool for SUIT Virtual Hackathon X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 18:43:08 -0000 We are all set to hold the SUIT Virtual Hackathon on 13 July 2020. I = hope to see you online during the hackaton. Russ > On Jun 2, 2020, at 11:11 AM, Russ Housley = wrote: >=20 > All responders have said that 13 and 14 July 2020 are acceptable = dates, but 13 July 2020 has one less "if need be" response. So, we are = going to start working toward a Virtual Hackathon on13 July 2020. >=20 > Russ >=20 >=20 >> On May 26, 2020, at 4:52 PM, Russ Housley = wrote: >>=20 >> We would like to hold a SUIT Virtual Hackathon about a week before = IETF 108, which will also be virtual. A Doodle poll has been set up to = puck the best date. >>=20 >> https://doodle.com/poll/6scac6wpupyd4vfh >>=20 >> We expect the Hackathon to start around 13:00 UTC and run for about 8 = hours. We expect to start with the usual tutorial and kick-off = activities, and we expect to wrap up with short summaries of what got = accomplished. We expect people to come and go, but the WebEx will be = available for people to collaborate throughout that time. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Russ, Dave, Dave >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Suit mailing list >> Suit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit >=20 From nobody Thu Jun 18 14:48:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC723A0FEC for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:48:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, PDS_TONAME_EQ_TOLOCAL_SHORT=1.999, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yVkIxAf7AV5s for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 946053A0FDC for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 14:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07320300B64 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 17:48:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 4o-Xc5JmzWUD for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 17:48:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-72-66-113-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.113.56]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7987F300A31 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2020 17:48:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 17:48:34 -0400 References: <8B18059D-608B-41AD-B12D-8BB33895B402@vigilsec.com> <3A876E1C-225F-4667-97E5-506C682A8364@vigilsec.com> <9286.1592513919@localhost> To: suit In-Reply-To: <9286.1592513919@localhost> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Doodle pool for SUIT Virtual Hackathon X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2020 21:48:39 -0000 > On Jun 18, 2020, at 4:58 PM, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > Russ Housley wrote: >> We are all set to hold the SUIT Virtual Hackathon on 13 July 2020. I >> hope to see you online during the hackaton. >=20 > 9-5? UTC? Madrid (CET) time? Sorry, I should have included that information. The IETF 108 hackathon starts at 07:00 PDT / 10:00 EDT / 14:00 UTC, and = the SUIT virtual will do the same. Russ From nobody Mon Jun 22 07:21:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF313A0D96 for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 07:21:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aCvMwhGa3Rai for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 07:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 819523A0DAD for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 07:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB170300B3C for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 10:21:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id AFaOrJCjxcZp for ; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 10:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-72-66-113-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.113.56]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C1849300A98; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 10:21:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9CA36E55-8400-47A1-B3C0-53B490A39E07"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 10:21:27 -0400 In-Reply-To: <12373.1592169791@localhost> Cc: draft-moran-suit-mud@ietf.org, suit , rats@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org, Henk Birkholz , Eliot Lear To: Michael Richardson References: <12373.1592169791@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] draft-moran-suit-mud, EAT and MUD X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 14:21:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9CA36E55-8400-47A1-B3C0-53B490A39E07 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think that the best way forward is to ask SECDISPATCH. I do not think = SUIT is a bad answer, but we have a process to pick. Russ > On Jun 14, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Michael Richardson = wrote: >=20 > Hi, I read draft-moran-suit-mud today. > It would naturally fall into a MUD WG if we had that. > As it is, I have no idea where to discuss this, and thus another = shotgun. > I gather the mailman deletes my Reply-To suggestions. >=20 > I feel that this document should be adopted and the details filed in, = but I > have no idea what WG it belongs in given the current state of things. > {It totally fits into the IoT lifecycle security WG I had proposed} >=20 > I knew it was around since it was talked about at the Hackathon a = bunch, but > I hadn't read the result until today. >=20 > If you use Hypothesis my comments are at: > = https://hyp.is/go?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-moran-su= it-mud-00.html&group=3D__world__ > I'm not sure what that does if you don't have the plugin installed. > I'd prefer to write them as a pull request since they are mostly = suggestions > on fixing some wording rather than any kind of substantive request for > changes. >=20 > Substantive comments: > "At the time of onboarding, devices report their manifest in use to = the MUD > manager." >=20 > so I think that we will need to detail this!!! > When using an IDevID based onboarding system = (BRSKI/BRSKI-TEEP/BRSKI-AE or > EAP-NOOB with some certificate based system) then the MUD certificate = OID is available. > But, that's not the manifest of the software currently running, and it = would > not be reasonable to embed that into the IDevID for the reasons I = explain at: > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-richardson-opsawg-mud-acceptab= le-urls-00#section-2 >=20 > More interesting is that you are requesting: > Each time a device is updated, rebooted, or otherwise = substantially > changed, it will execute an attestation. > Among other claims in the Entity Attestation Token (EAT) > [I-D.ietf-rats-eat], the device will report its software = digest(s), > configuration digest(s), primary manifest URI, and primary = manifest > digest to the MUD manager. >=20 > Well, that attestation is actually ideal for use during onboarding as = well. >=20 > It seems to me that the path of trust should go like: >=20 > 1) (Manufacturer IDevID PKI) -> IDevID. > 2) IDevID -> "generic" MUD file (signed by key from Manufacturer = PKI <%>) > 3) MUD file -> identifies key that signs firmware manifests > 4) SUIT MANIFEST -> "specific" (per version) MUD file >=20 > I had previous suggested that the SBOM be attached to the per-version = MUD > file, but I am not so sure anymore. >=20 > Note that the EAT described above would be *Evidence* (not Attestation > Results), per the architecture. It would be signed by the IDevID in = <2>. >=20 > Finally, if you didn't see my message to secdispatch about IDevID. > = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/secdispatch/Hqe1lHG2wnW_9NxJLazEYbmG= YN0/ >=20 > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --Apple-Mail=_9CA36E55-8400-47A1-B3C0-53B490A39E07 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iFwEARECAB0WIQRJuTEKFXbtfFQz5huK5O7Q9ZwRywUCXvC+ZwAKCRCK5O7Q9ZwR ywfdAKDArxi5FjeP6SZWbDyo2gyPzFQYwgCYkDEPfERC5U1w58kYYe+04dP9aw== =Stry -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_9CA36E55-8400-47A1-B3C0-53B490A39E07-- From nobody Mon Jun 22 07:43:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6066B3A0DB0; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 07:43:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aA3YxN6HcQ7o; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 07:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36EEF3A0D54; Mon, 22 Jun 2020 07:43:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1233; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1592836986; x=1594046586; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc: to:references; bh=WqJdOYFFh2vYOJsLjb3cjW3rOgAgwy9ZHWedBsGT9OM=; b=VzLHhMrYY2Yzg2AH2bqHZeIoSSYACW999eX1tatOY/ZaOlEEhHa7HfTi M8uZaNU7gWzL2B6/bai4j8VNghDXXeD+gr7NlbDurjakyaXZpMdh/uWy2 X3IelQuE/VFGdnghm6q1nUjW+AjMedmKUynGmU7P1PvEgf9x11sURe3Eg Y=; X-Files: signature.asc : 488 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CNAwCnwvBe/xbLJq1mHAEBAQEBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?BARIBAQQEAQGCCoIqgUMBIBIshCSJAYgMm34EBwEBAQkDAQEvBAEBhEAHAoI?= =?us-ascii?q?sJTgTAgMBAQsBAQUBAQECAQYEbYVnhXIBAQEBAgEjVgULCxgqAgJXBhODJgG?= =?us-ascii?q?CXCC1TnaBMoVRhRMQgTiBU4sqggCBESccgk0+h1Ezgi0EmhaaPYJkgwKBJpU?= =?us-ascii?q?BAx2CXwGcG6wkg08CBAYFAhWBaiKBVjMaCBsVZQGCPj4SGQ2cZz8DMDcCBgE?= =?us-ascii?q?HAQEDCZBkAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.75,267,1589241600"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="27340009" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 22 Jun 2020 14:43:02 +0000 Received: from dhcp-10-61-111-164.cisco.com (dhcp-10-61-111-164.cisco.com [10.61.111.164]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 05MEh1Hv027450 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 22 Jun 2020 14:43:01 GMT From: Eliot Lear Message-Id: <4BE0A1F6-D474-4AEA-AF2B-6C67A1A37F5F@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F3B85A6A-45E4-412D-A6C2-8C286D23BB89"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 16:43:00 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Michael Richardson , draft-moran-suit-mud@ietf.org, suit , rats@ietf.org, opsawg@ietf.org, Henk Birkholz To: Russ Housley References: <12373.1592169791@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.61.111.164, dhcp-10-61-111-164.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] draft-moran-suit-mud, EAT and MUD X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 14:43:14 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F3B85A6A-45E4-412D-A6C2-8C286D23BB89 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I think that=E2=80=99s a fine answer. > On 22 Jun 2020, at 16:21, Russ Housley wrote: >=20 >=20 > I think that the best way forward is to ask SECDISPATCH. I do not = think SUIT is a bad answer, but we have a process to pick. >=20 > Russ --Apple-Mail=_F3B85A6A-45E4-412D-A6C2-8C286D23BB89 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEmNC9kEYdsJKnsmEdh7ZrRtnSejMFAl7ww3QACgkQh7ZrRtnS ejNVFQf+IN2jV83t7wKYx67fYxrtXIExuR5Jh+Z4DxbDLcTTGIJEfqlNm/ygKD+5 gQQhshJMSYbVTshPp4ex5Jta6fmaS1VyR2uEfVR0Q7IUpt/nkEuVqIg3JKxSTRnY ngW6yxsqEDxsw0RmV8n0k2P97UhtgRGZ0d6lOPMnS/FRLx+EmB9I69kt5JncCBzN mqiVTAxu8ctJVvLEpV7Bm6Irxs9CjsYuIWnQ0b3t4veAS/UHT3VyZehfqCkoQkeb 0l9oBo2jE3EapDWhZimcanGnVSBIbs3KXIl9iYNHFTHnjLlBHI8V/L99O+MlRjZh k7juZCFecadF4mcnqRr9+ZwEeEqogg== =LWDS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_F3B85A6A-45E4-412D-A6C2-8C286D23BB89-- From nobody Tue Jun 23 08:46:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74D1B3A0FB6 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 08:46:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qWwamtZznDmC for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 08:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjmda13.webex.com (sjmda13.webex.com [64.68.124.151]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6C3F3A0FBB for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 08:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rva2rmd102.webex.com (sjc02-wxpd-lb03-v140.webex.com [10.252.16.111]) by sjmda13.webex.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 760463020AC1 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 15:46:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from rva2rmd102.webex.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rva2rmd102.webex.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEA031020051 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 15:46:41 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 15:46:41 +0000 (GMT) From: SUIT Working Group Reply-To: suit-chairs@ietf.org To: suit@ietf.org Message-ID: <901340796.799531592927201976.JavaMail.nobody@rva2rmd102.webex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_159903_2058729270.1592927201976" X-Priority: 3 Importance: normal X-WBX-INFO: X-WBX-SID=456680, X-WBX-CID=164855442706541908, X-WBX-TID=4s3mc8wvsmoqqvtb1r8soj48hi07w3sct592g40vwngirtmgb2b9syeu, X-WBX-RID=f36b80bdbd5f4c759f353e13f70a320b, X-WBX-SVC:Meeting Center, X-WBX-TT:Meeting Invitation, Date:Tue Jun 23 15:46:41 GMT 2020 reminder-40.6.0-3140 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Webex meeting invitation: SUIT Hackathon X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org 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From: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" To: Hannes Tschofenig , suit Thread-Topic: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? Thread-Index: AdY+g8RioMdZuMGSTiyeIUnWZR+rOAABnQhwArrkIZA= Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 16:30:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: arm.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;arm.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [129.6.218.246] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2b1584a1-dfa6-41ff-d328-08d81792bd44 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR09MB5061: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 04433051BF x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: p0sezpk0jq04DDqxVnbQjLLsRSSwjY9wAgUbu153z6rvUYoRzRDznhpXRv6yVECEQ4IoarUInFzDKpPMGi6q0/A58VLSBlwMBkgekh0R0MtshExTD8VutIyeju1UdAs/44jAB0Gj5HSBWCE9Po3N4DwVpTcbSYCYlAI8vrWmPs1sYah8g/6Cejb/bgITCviZnvCEP7M62jpxumoJ0w1KIXCi8/pjPuaKBXghBoF6XCh/xZ12bWY/sJ4KobVNa87bHuUiNZ1EGzR4hrz7ZC4zeSEviAYQyAlnyY3wPzECxUC9ZDWVsWWB5FVKGNY619mFzHt1lkgFsMH0O1B8Bss1mFEjfaUnH+K3oSWgKg0CBNtRViaWZtphG9GsUz9iDHn3s5gT9dlWYpXX4AMtbDrZXw== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DM6PR09MB4256.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(366004)(53546011)(45080400002)(498600001)(8936002)(2906002)(966005)(7696005)(33656002)(110136005)(8676002)(83380400001)(66946007)(76116006)(9686003)(55016002)(66446008)(52536014)(64756008)(66556008)(66476007)(6506007)(86362001)(26005)(186003)(71200400001)(5660300002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: Ln0E4852DY/Mro4SWn+8pvbOf1hp6jh2rDcn6NvvVIW6BhYwZm56gPTSp3e4KMpEdBqbFf2suPvVQLZvchVKC7AVL33a+crNYJ656GCM6SPssk9L+88kRPedmTZIRDFg0GnGDUDfYSCpE99BU5YSev7R176v10bPkE1vS3bIkQPk0fvIF64EU9dddAuxz0424L9qSgmRdTozXuuAlXOIyq3OWv0/d8N5b+yhLHNjJZ33F3FpDU8bEGJ8vYSI6UmlaRVT/QiGRzDCGIrkfn4uFKhzs3FQcwqi4md4wJOPykvaDvv8hXbdrazTIvCKJH1J+VRHP3YztPT3rqZ9lq/e6jQcVCflL4aCQp+RQi/Ff7t7Dw2Dg3GUGh0+7AlxeMAVuNTvJZIxd1i/hGoFD0b3RhVLg+IAmxKSg1VKkV5cVVK3zkWTfOmsjzsn1QOjAJ5RMDGoPvJ9IAqXmby47HkeyZ9r+EjAuV8MfxRJCZLWQlM= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DM6PR09MB4256.namprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2b1584a1-dfa6-41ff-d328-08d81792bd44 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Jun 2020 16:30:27.0101 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: FqSEyWSXMqAdHbIPCg7EjG9dWvw8PURDVfQz6KrGHKqNGj9aOB9nA1Ak3kpha2gsXWm2MoLu8Cx6Nz7VJnHn7A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR09MB5061 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 16:30:36 -0000 Hannes, Do you plan to provide an update with more examples before the IETF meeting= ? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Hannes Tschofenig =20 Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 2:23 PM To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) ; suit Subject: RE: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? Hi David, the last few draft updates have focused on improving readability. I also be= lieve we need more examples and that's something I will focus on next. The upcoming hackathon might also help to provide further input. Ciao Hannes -----Original Message----- From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 7:33 PM To: Hannes Tschofenig ; suit Subject: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? I'd like to get a sense from the working group about how mature everyone th= inks this draft is. Do you think there are any significant areas or work th= at still need to be addressed before starting a WGLC? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Suit On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:15 PM To: suit Subject: [Suit] draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 Hi all, I just submitted version -07 of the manifest draft. Here are the changes: * Corrected the boilerplate text (it was wrong also in the architecture and= the information model draft) * All CDDL text is now concentrated in one place. This should make it easie= r to read. * Fixed various TBDs for parameter descriptions in the text * Enhanced IANA consideration section * Completed the Implementation Conformance Matrix * Removed mailing list info Here is the doc: https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.i= etf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-suit-manifest-07&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.wal= termire%40nist.gov%7Caeb629d8c4974384e31d08d80ca23065%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93= e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637273238026315038&sdata=3Dx7vJqnQn2BZ5vB6epqMW= QxKQcZDPge2vcrDXFOdUkJo%3D&reserved=3D0 Here is the diff: https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-ietf-suit-manifest-07&data=3D02%7C01%7Cd= avid.waltermire%40nist.gov%7Caeb629d8c4974384e31d08d80ca23065%7C2ab5d82fd8f= a4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637273238026324995&sdata=3DN3%2FREsY%2B= WdbGNueWgx5O9wnvz7iivoa%2FJtT%2FkPx75%2BE%3D&reserved=3D0 Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40n= ist.gov%7Caeb629d8c4974384e31d08d80ca23065%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61d= ec%7C1%7C0%7C637273238026324995&sdata=3Do8czKKEG6wt6%2BtIJiIv5OXy5R9d17= AfcTqYzOVpTsSY%3D&reserved=3D0 IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. 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Tue, 23 Jun 2020 17:46:07 +0000 From: Hannes Tschofenig To: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" , suit Thread-Topic: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? 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X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 17:46:19 -0000 The authors were planning to ship another draft update in time for the hack= athon. I was thinking about adding a few examples and those could be discussed and= refined during the hackathon. -----Original Message----- From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 6:30 PM To: Hannes Tschofenig ; suit Subject: RE: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? Hannes, Do you plan to provide an update with more examples before the IETF meeting= ? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Hannes Tschofenig Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 2:23 PM To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) ; suit Subject: RE: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? Hi David, the last few draft updates have focused on improving readability. I also be= lieve we need more examples and that's something I will focus on next. The upcoming hackathon might also help to provide further input. Ciao Hannes -----Original Message----- From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 7:33 PM To: Hannes Tschofenig ; suit Subject: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? I'd like to get a sense from the working group about how mature everyone th= inks this draft is. Do you think there are any significant areas or work th= at still need to be addressed before starting a WGLC? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Suit On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:15 PM To: suit Subject: [Suit] draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 Hi all, I just submitted version -07 of the manifest draft. Here are the changes: * Corrected the boilerplate text (it was wrong also in the architecture and= the information model draft) * All CDDL text is now concentrated in one place. This should make it easie= r to read. * Fixed various TBDs for parameter descriptions in the text * Enhanced IANA consideration section * Completed the Implementation Conformance Matrix * Removed mailing list info Here is the doc: https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.i= etf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-suit-manifest-07&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.wal= termire%40nist.gov%7Caeb629d8c4974384e31d08d80ca23065%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93= e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637273238026315038&sdata=3Dx7vJqnQn2BZ5vB6epqMW= QxKQcZDPge2vcrDXFOdUkJo%3D&reserved=3D0 Here is the diff: https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-ietf-suit-manifest-07&data=3D02%7C01%7Cd= avid.waltermire%40nist.gov%7Caeb629d8c4974384e31d08d80ca23065%7C2ab5d82fd8f= a4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637273238026324995&sdata=3DN3%2FREsY%2B= WdbGNueWgx5O9wnvz7iivoa%2FJtT%2FkPx75%2BE%3D&reserved=3D0 Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40n= ist.gov%7Caeb629d8c4974384e31d08d80ca23065%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61d= ec%7C1%7C0%7C637273238026324995&sdata=3Do8czKKEG6wt6%2BtIJiIv5OXy5R9d17= AfcTqYzOVpTsSY%3D&reserved=3D0 IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. 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Tue, 23 Jun 2020 18:48:43 +0000 From: Hannes Tschofenig To: suit Thread-Topic: Hackathon in July Thread-Index: AdZJhVy8buirK7EyQz+PV1j4gyMBgQ== Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 18:48:43 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ts-tracking-id: ca5c37ce-90a8-418b-b209-48d7bb0dead2.0 x-checkrecipientchecked: true Authentication-Results-Original: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=arm.com; x-originating-ip: [80.92.123.2] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-HT: Tenant X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 7b9ee83c-6141-4f88-8818-08d817a613e8 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR08MB3347:|AM5PR0802MB2482: X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: x-checkrecipientrouted: true nodisclaimer: true x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508;OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 04433051BF X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-Microsoft-Antispam-Untrusted: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info-Original: V6DWdQZJcfCRb6/t7U1QXSBRK1oOmmtC7XS7xhPA5YgTieARNjfeu8z2f4QYJzv4IQT6pgzByHW0lTkOff91ItFCo0qpuxV3MynCEXqb3WGysA6EZOthvy8gJKVjDmhAnvezR46jlE/mDmJTEWx5Jhl9TQ2baRYzN3FdJCldEv275NZ8vBBTIJETOEPNfwYecofwDhZqkHBd45dnCtbFyGPU4oUqAPdlO+nZtBSAtORu9mlmz5YGw479LT2EPz/EGgGFwbWl/mDuGKxkpVPWOzvnXrbdYJcuvUtC8Jd7wy3NwG1d3qMQ83J/NwQesC0g4/vycD4NsfYmY8M54L58z+hE2cObM+ACALBBE5ghaZ7+VJv8Przdf2ZN4f/cewyalt1MIiQ7S3+L2brZLaN2sA== X-Forefront-Antispam-Report-Untrusted: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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Ip=[63.35.35.123]; Helo=[64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5PR0802MB2482 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Hackathon in July X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 18:49:00 -0000 --_000_AM0PR08MB3716C6483CAB6678CE9B5AE2FA940AM0PR08MB3716eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, You have seen Russ posting the date and the webex for the hackathon in July= (Monday, 13th July). Needless to say that we also need to do a bit of planning. I offered to help with the organization. If you would like to participate i= n this SUIT Hackathon please add your name, email address, and (if you alre= ady know) your project idea to the group wiki page at https://trac.ietf.org= /trac/suit. We will then discuss offlist how the different hackathon projects fit toget= her, who needs to collaborate with whom, what software environment we need = to setup, what hardware needs to be utilized, etc. Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. --_000_AM0PR08MB3716C6483CAB6678CE9B5AE2FA940AM0PR08MB3716eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

You have seen Russ posting the date and the webex fo= r the hackathon in July (Monday, 13th July).

Needless to say that we also need to do a bit of pla= nning.

 

I offered to help with the organization. If you woul= d like to participate in this SUIT Hackathon please add your name, email ad= dress, and (if you already know) your project idea to the group wiki page a= t https://trac.ietf.org/trac/suit= .

We will then discuss offlist how the different hacka= thon projects fit together, who needs to collaborate with whom, what softwa= re environment we need to setup, what hardware needs to be utilized, etc. &= nbsp;

 

Ciao

Hannes

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. --_000_AM0PR08MB3716C6483CAB6678CE9B5AE2FA940AM0PR08MB3716eurp_-- From nobody Tue Jun 23 12:39:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 684A93A0978 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 12:39:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.886 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.886 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4u1JS7SJKw5U for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 12:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84A893A0977 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 12:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2414F300B39 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 15:39:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id P23bYkBDYdQf for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 15:39:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-72-66-113-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.113.56]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48B3530009A; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 15:39:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Message-Id: <4822A982-A5D3-4740-9949-8B9B34CE95F7@vigilsec.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B3A0CA7D-0820-4903-B693-AC9CBDD8E2B3" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 15:39:05 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: suit To: Hannes Tschofenig References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Hackathon in July X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 19:39:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B3A0CA7D-0820-4903-B693-AC9CBDD8E2B3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Please add your name and projects here: = https://trac.ietf.org/trac/suit/wiki/SuitHackathon Russ > On Jun 23, 2020, at 2:48 PM, Hannes Tschofenig = wrote: >=20 > Hi all,=20 > =20 > You have seen Russ posting the date and the webex for the hackathon in = July (Monday, 13th July). > Needless to say that we also need to do a bit of planning.=20 > =20 > I offered to help with the organization. If you would like to = participate in this SUIT Hackathon please add your name, email address, = and (if you already know) your project idea to the group wiki page = athttps://trac.ietf.org/trac/suit .=20 > We will then discuss offlist how the different hackathon projects fit = together, who needs to collaborate with whom, what software environment = we need to setup, what hardware needs to be utilized, etc. =20 > =20 > Ciao > Hannes > =20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. = _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit = --Apple-Mail=_B3A0CA7D-0820-4903-B693-AC9CBDD8E2B3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Please add your name and projects here: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/suit/wiki/SuitHackathon

Russ


On Jun 23, 2020, at 2:48 PM, Hannes = Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com> wrote:

Hi = all, 
 
You have = seen Russ posting the date and the webex for the hackathon in July = (Monday, 13th July).
Needless = to say that we also need to do a bit of planning. 
 
I offered = to help with the organization. If you would like to participate in this = SUIT Hackathon please add your name, email address, and (if you already = know) your project idea to the group wiki page athttps://trac.ietf.org/trac/suit. 
We will = then discuss offlist how the different hackathon projects fit together, = who needs to collaborate with whom, what software environment we need to = setup, what hardware needs to be utilized, etc.  
 
Ciao
Hannes
 
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any = attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not = the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not = disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or = store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. = _______________________________________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit

= --Apple-Mail=_B3A0CA7D-0820-4903-B693-AC9CBDD8E2B3-- From nobody Tue Jun 23 14:31:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C72F73A0BA5 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 14:31:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.103 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.103 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_GOV_DKIM_AU=-0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nist.gov Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3i7SaSXJKxlh for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 14:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GCC02-BL0-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2gcc02on2138.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.89.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9A013A0BA1 for ; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 14:31:01 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=n120TXkeC5HwU6d7HMPfiwXF58zqrmf+PxslM6/aS6wamXL9vl5ucQVCpASRLWYG3rD4UPnPY7VmBPoCXRuYCbslR4bJVkPLAlrG/+8wLuAxLIT5EebgfTJc97ZIiTmwvBQXN8dlmcpKQn8YZHVi6gcNTB/8jYktYUxy5R5Hy3Dbza8bGNxIpRAF7HA/Ab/fOHko9ma2szVkKAa7r2va628A8bAdhy800Cy+ZwCH2tEhuqkpyqN7Emk5xIRsh4JAmao8IeqcihexjClow6ijuA/jvNQr4ez877A0ZKcxbYeIwK4l74aCgtEi1PGYEMfGH6unv/93MenZY+NimwRqfA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=LSmtOSmJgtQ3J+utQlR3g3tSsg59KZ1Cawe3qsQHbP0=; b=P9BmopqMYRNcmp6A9CoYaND99lcFtLRa6wmPNQlA7zzjeG2B9T+ShmR6tZNVgJ2df3oEJcTi0+ahIKGHZWx5zCL3foyMt3u19pTIeuESsLEM1CMmeGufGUMgDEzXyBfL5YWKB9yQgrsrb7yPmpznFLayVI3UeimjsOaQ1DHActeVqRQEtgWQw1AU8A8qtjRIi8ZWA9BJy92+ApNSdX3D71Fo0lRN09UJ+9DVSuEHDbQMdSmn14oqYDw1CQi9Y+PnIGNAl1I8B+Jrhwyz+1PbcDTw9FLuJLVvJkrocHD87tsey1BAQLaW6dTEc7c8Q03n9pKkmSTQBABCt4JIEE0gOQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nist.gov; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nist.gov; dkim=pass header.d=nist.gov; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nist.gov; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=LSmtOSmJgtQ3J+utQlR3g3tSsg59KZ1Cawe3qsQHbP0=; b=jKh2kFYmSSKa9VMk5JdtHc8M0y8ykctyJAtq889XOElmrxPu0/e1m1HiCvYcDPxCMSqYYugy6Jud1UztlbtFXcB0qYufv5wfYexL7eS3sbNu0YgrOG668zUf7xTkacV6Bqb+gT0UEhd9QEzBjKEl7B627oX2KXhPdTX/ZMuLpqg= Received: from DM6PR09MB4256.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:209::20) by DM6PR09MB3146.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:7b::28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3109.22; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 21:30:59 +0000 Received: from DM6PR09MB4256.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::745e:4cd0:ee15:65c1]) by DM6PR09MB4256.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::745e:4cd0:ee15:65c1%5]) with mapi id 15.20.3109.027; Tue, 23 Jun 2020 21:30:59 +0000 From: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" To: Hannes Tschofenig , suit Thread-Topic: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? Thread-Index: AdY+g8RioMdZuMGSTiyeIUnWZR+rOAABnQhwArrkIZAABA8aYAAAQqEw Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 21:30:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: arm.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;arm.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [129.6.218.246] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d4e7286d-3c68-49a2-fe26-08d817bcb8f2 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR09MB3146: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 04433051BF x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: AZRlcGr5bIdCf7B9DVArjdsB6r+yTb04Tyl9KeSeMukCFlznwBpEYfM1k63Pixk1w58tu73zG9SYw+A/H2MdUVKuC8OHUPUEG6zXnir2zi1/zZMGZvaW5EFXtIOKUJ1Hy5wUaSeATnkKgliL1ssg1Iv6CdVvjkZE+SdEV9TGn4Awf6CC849GXx9js1i3mMx36t1azM5P1jZTS2Vf6sYGfrtRzMKqumBbGa5ue/d5vjTghONqk6e6JroX+TtbtZuAavhgEL/dsLXbQflNFeQ8jrtzrkrnEDhGHBMXJH52M6kgT+2eKZ9rkKlN/voDyIY/SDXuGypaY+3K0jREJDlM0knUFVe2MKl9ou4NWx3QuCdJKcUohCcs5WejLA02pXmR9R73l5DKzwAC09TMI89biQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DM6PR09MB4256.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(136003)(396003)(376002)(366004)(39860400002)(346002)(9686003)(26005)(52536014)(8936002)(5660300002)(55016002)(8676002)(66946007)(2906002)(86362001)(186003)(66556008)(76116006)(66476007)(71200400001)(64756008)(6506007)(66446008)(53546011)(966005)(478600001)(33656002)(45080400002)(110136005)(7696005)(83380400001)(316002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: vjtXWCp6ulTc9rooRU2seSeinaxCNQjIt0YsoSGXhoZmFOANHojkLUONM3JemcedlwDRrQuB7CBXGNhn0+GX6XF2UcZR04uBpDYRXHhAnBE4Rr12Kj5if8IkHJtYXGGYL/HKmaF9Wi5WcFo45zJDs/LWjnea2+fbtp0ndxaOuEuLkynjU6QNUEiVR0yWAKbe/z19U6MPISeiK+iW85Z835qtKjwoVWB15zIaaR+Wdr4+meVHA/K97xd27NlQA4Otx8OSLwvWSBwq8BGV1qv6rLYZwQucGrLWmsleYei2z6DWd7vsB6MpdXWtCA0CJtMs8oPLJJy4Lmmv8r0sIdvqldIU5HH19D/Rzl0QEe3K9EKGHKmAh1oJ9wKmdA6omn2CLh6dpsh+Vuuhq0RRxXN7EDnQdERjt3heQ0GK6tuQQdroGZnjApgjls5bI2skDFyehDhsE1lGfBM7KBRphv5xUNJQsudufs2K4QD4hB8bHck= x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d4e7286d-3c68-49a2-fe26-08d817bcb8f2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Jun 2020 21:30:59.3464 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: OxpfUQUlJh9pwK8jqghA0ZWqiVyqQu87/+kTyzATvX7ba6fZ8L+OkHnkXbZXiVe1PwpGjPqjSTa60e7y/QuR/w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM6PR09MB3146 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 21:31:05 -0000 That would be great. I talked with Dave and Russ today. We want to be in a = good position to start a WG on the manifest after the IETF 108 WG meeting i= f possible. To this end, we need to work through any remaining issues. This means that any updates to the manifest draft need to be identified and= worked as part of the hackathon. Do you think this will be possible? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Hannes Tschofenig =20 Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 1:46 PM To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) ; suit Subject: RE: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? The authors were planning to ship another draft update in time for the hack= athon. I was thinking about adding a few examples and those could be discussed and= refined during the hackathon. -----Original Message----- From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 6:30 PM To: Hannes Tschofenig ; suit Subject: RE: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? Hannes, Do you plan to provide an update with more examples before the IETF meeting= ? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Hannes Tschofenig Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 2:23 PM To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) ; suit Subject: RE: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? Hi David, the last few draft updates have focused on improving readability. I also be= lieve we need more examples and that's something I will focus on next. The upcoming hackathon might also help to provide further input. Ciao Hannes -----Original Message----- From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 7:33 PM To: Hannes Tschofenig ; suit Subject: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? I'd like to get a sense from the working group about how mature everyone th= inks this draft is. Do you think there are any significant areas or work th= at still need to be addressed before starting a WGLC? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Suit On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:15 PM To: suit Subject: [Suit] draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 Hi all, I just submitted version -07 of the manifest draft. Here are the changes: * Corrected the boilerplate text (it was wrong also in the architecture and= the information model draft) * All CDDL text is now concentrated in one place. This should make it easie= r to read. * Fixed various TBDs for parameter descriptions in the text * Enhanced IANA consideration section * Completed the Implementation Conformance Matrix * Removed mailing list info Here is the doc: https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.i= etf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-suit-manifest-07&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.wal= termire%40nist.gov%7C813f72b1e9614545aedd08d8179d55b5%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93= e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637285311809216524&sdata=3DEGpO%2ByNDuxtenIRZbv= 8H6IY46H8uwdFrX0qprOGII6A%3D&reserved=3D0 Here is the diff: https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-ietf-suit-manifest-07&data=3D02%7C01%7Cd= avid.waltermire%40nist.gov%7C813f72b1e9614545aedd08d8179d55b5%7C2ab5d82fd8f= a4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637285311809226518&sdata=3DK5AiUbsml%2B= %2Bf79FfOAj9lwUatSIK4NLmn3MnTkIMrbY%3D&reserved=3D0 Ciao Hannes IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40n= ist.gov%7C813f72b1e9614545aedd08d8179d55b5%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61d= ec%7C1%7C0%7C637285311809226518&sdata=3DJl7ZQNRIyx5cpfbACkbhp77j2PbfcYw= nKlr72iZQZWQ%3D&reserved=3D0 IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. From nobody Wed Jun 24 02:59:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B7D3A0CEC for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 02:59:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.396 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.396 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iBd3Ea9Q0T-h for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 02:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-f173.google.com (mail-pl1-f173.google.com [209.85.214.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACEC33A0B9F for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 02:59:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f173.google.com with SMTP id k6so860408pll.9 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 02:59:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=yWR0S3HAnqW3A/OjdH4L5yYUzqYIMfV/pzIis7Ztf4U=; b=a3XDVkV+gBE2hefdpzOjsiEgkWYwx2oStyCbEQHKxu/2IMjTi1KGb3OUEwV4frFRRg KGsFIImATpjp6r6PvubfHrKEgrtdhVBTcPqwJDBknnXPM+6wJa7sVLgQTIR0+uTRlMpb TRxbay5LE34ekYG16166GKTlR8imkEc6UizE73GGF4Wjo4Y0N7WwEL6oPdmSNwFIPJOB VNg/bv2AFjDbhkB5pDWdfitzFdyn4YAHedByQ045NMCOu7yDktWIPMOV5s0KFAJ9H0bl CPEc28EBJRLI9Oacoy5xrpnkHJzHfCoBW8CmiM5dWiNcqrWB40qxLXyuXcG0QYO/dbDt yuAQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531K1LdVrKytdpiR3XuW03nDDQ/xUrbfPBJQNeH5pl4ZpgWFnMjK R5dlwEyGWAMwvr8WNd2BUPif4iT99OjeMuVlw4kIxwCC X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJypotFqzJATDb95FegI8/bMUeZ69zxwaTZ1kzmgXkWwJMrUuvrKZHMkR4+Q3wfZgyzEWsuCIxC7qGUfSX2R2tU= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:a9c8:: with SMTP id b8mr1779708plr.48.1592992741759; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 02:59:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Emmanuel Baccelli Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 11:58:50 +0200 Message-ID: To: suit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000809ee505a8d18633" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 09:59:05 -0000 --000000000000809ee505a8d18633 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dave, all our team (including Koen) is working on upgrading our SUIT implementation (open sourced, in RIOT) to comply with version -07 of the manifest draft. It seems healthy to plan on having such implementation work under our belt by the time WGLC starts. If all goes as planned, we should indeed be in such a position after the hackathon and IETF108? Cheers, Emmanuel On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 11:31 PM Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote: > That would be great. I talked with Dave and Russ today. We want to be in = a > good position to start a WG on the manifest after the IETF 108 WG meeting > if possible. To this end, we need to work through any remaining issues. > > This means that any updates to the manifest draft need to be identified > and worked as part of the hackathon. > > Do you think this will be possible? > > Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hannes Tschofenig > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 1:46 PM > To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) ; suit < > suit@ietf.org> > Subject: RE: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? > > The authors were planning to ship another draft update in time for the > hackathon. > I was thinking about adding a few examples and those could be discussed > and refined during the hackathon. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 6:30 PM > To: Hannes Tschofenig ; suit > Subject: RE: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? > > Hannes, > > Do you plan to provide an update with more examples before the IETF > meeting? > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hannes Tschofenig > Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 2:23 PM > To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) ; suit < > suit@ietf.org> > Subject: RE: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? > > Hi David, > > the last few draft updates have focused on improving readability. I also > believe we need more examples and that's something I will focus on next. > The upcoming hackathon might also help to provide further input. > > Ciao > Hannes > > -----Original Message----- > From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 7:33 PM > To: Hannes Tschofenig ; suit > Subject: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? > > I'd like to get a sense from the working group about how mature everyone > thinks this draft is. Do you think there are any significant areas or wor= k > that still need to be addressed before starting a WGLC? > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Suit On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig > Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:15 PM > To: suit > Subject: [Suit] draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 > > Hi all, > > I just submitted version -07 of the manifest draft. > > Here are the changes: > > * Corrected the boilerplate text (it was wrong also in the architecture > and the information model draft) > * All CDDL text is now concentrated in one place. This should make it > easier to read. > * Fixed various TBDs for parameter descriptions in the text > * Enhanced IANA consideration section > * Completed the Implementation Conformance Matrix > * Removed mailing list info > > Here is the doc: > > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools= .ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-suit-manifest-07&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.w= altermire%40nist.gov%7C813f72b1e9614545aedd08d8179d55b5%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a= 93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637285311809216524&sdata=3DEGpO%2ByNDuxtenIRZ= bv8H6IY46H8uwdFrX0qprOGII6A%3D&reserved=3D0 > > Here is the diff: > > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.i= etf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-ietf-suit-manifest-07&data=3D02%7C01%7= Cdavid.waltermire%40nist.gov%7C813f72b1e9614545aedd08d8179d55b5%7C2ab5d82fd= 8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637285311809226518&sdata=3DK5AiUbsml%= 2B%2Bf79FfOAj9lwUatSIK4NLmn3MnTkIMrbY%3D&reserved=3D0 > > Ciao > Hannes > > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the > contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy th= e > information in any medium. Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.i= etf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%4= 0nist.gov%7C813f72b1e9614545aedd08d8179d55b5%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c6= 1dec%7C1%7C0%7C637285311809226518&sdata=3DJl7ZQNRIyx5cpfbACkbhp77j2Pbfc= YwnKlr72iZQZWQ%3D&reserved=3D0 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the > contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy th= e > information in any medium. Thank you. > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the > contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy th= e > information in any medium. Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit > --000000000000809ee505a8d18633 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dave, all

our team (i= ncluding Koen) is working on upgrading our SUIT implementation (open source= d, in RIOT) to comply with version -07 of the manifest draft.
It = seems healthy to plan on having such implementation work under our belt by = the time WGLC starts.
If all goes as planned, we should indeed be= in such a position after the hackathon and IETF108?

Cheers,

E= mmanuel


On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 11:31= PM Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">That would be great. I tal= ked with Dave and Russ today. We want to be in a good position to start a W= G on the manifest after the IETF 108 WG meeting if possible. To this end, w= e need to work through any remaining issues.

This means that any updates to the manifest draft need to be identified and= worked as part of the hackathon.

Do you think this will be possible?

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 1:46 PM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>; suit <suit@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC?

The authors were planning to ship another draft update in time for the hack= athon.
I was thinking about adding a few examples and those could be discussed and= refined during the hackathon.

-----Original Message-----
From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 6:30 PM
To: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>; suit <suit@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC?

Hannes,

Do you plan to provide an update with more examples before the IETF meeting= ?

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 2:23 PM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>; suit <suit@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC?

Hi David,

the last few draft updates have focused on improving readability. I also be= lieve we need more examples and that's something I will focus on next.<= br> The upcoming hackathon might also help to provide further input.

Ciao
Hannes

-----Original Message-----
From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 7:33 PM
To: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>; suit <suit@ietf.org>
Subject: Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC?

I'd like to get a sense from the working group about how mature everyon= e thinks this draft is. Do you think there are any significant areas or wor= k that still need to be addressed before starting a WGLC?

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Suit <s= uit-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Hannes Tschofenig
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:15 PM
To: suit <suit@ietf.o= rg>
Subject: [Suit] draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07

Hi all,

I just submitted version -07 of the manifest draft.

Here are the changes:

* Corrected the boilerplate text (it was wrong also in the architecture and= the information model draft)
* All CDDL text is now concentrated in one place. This should make it easie= r to read.
* Fixed various TBDs for parameter descriptions in the text
* Enhanced IANA consideration section
* Completed the Implementation Conformance Matrix
* Removed mailing list info

Here is the doc:
https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outloo= k.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-suit-manifest= -07&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40nist.gov%7C813f72b1e9614545= aedd08d8179d55b5%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C6372853118092= 16524&amp;sdata=3DEGpO%2ByNDuxtenIRZbv8H6IY46H8uwdFrX0qprOGII6A%3D&= amp;reserved=3D0

Here is the diff:
https://gcc02.safelinks.protecti= on.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-i= etf-suit-manifest-07&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40nist.gov%7= C813f72b1e9614545aedd08d8179d55b5%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C= 0%7C637285311809226518&amp;sdata=3DK5AiUbsml%2B%2Bf79FfOAj9lwUatSIK4NLm= n3MnTkIMrbY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0

Ciao
Hannes

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dht= tps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&amp;data=3D02%7C01= %7Cdavid.waltermire%40nist.gov%7C813f72b1e9614545aedd08d8179d55b5%7C2ab5d82= fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637285311809226518&amp;sdata=3DJl7Z= QNRIyx5cpfbACkbhp77j2PbfcYwnKlr72iZQZWQ%3D&amp;reserved=3D0
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit
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Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:03:26 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=F8nningstad=2C_=D8yvind?= To: suit Thread-Topic: Manifest-07 review Thread-Index: AdZJ/dxWDAt2IAgGSk6bbwUyoDHNSg== Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:03:26 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nordicsemi.no; x-originating-ip: [2001:8c0:5140:12:512d:398b:437b:97ec] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 0e5b327f-7f8c-4126-a889-08d81825d6b2 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR05MB4515: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0444EB1997 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: XFOHxsM6LmXEkGIvzVC35iQj8/e3X11i0Co7SbRKetp3lRquDalFXdRaOgDepju9CckLMOgwr8tKbX7YMrzo5BfVxSahfdbiVpZZixgVBLsacxtCQ/jafzTwT/3QRYKGBLq/ljqgHBmYMAhs4+ChZlGSBa8CzbyqHfFmQSdzwc9/VgTHrhvdDqXre/q5xZIXfcIAzMlfe9tP7G/O3SF7Pbj039I8j/g3sB4fikoh8Pn9pV5VQzNynUXeSvgEM9myd/ny1WooncGT11LPjeOzDWAw9m+hknSQeezEW2UI5QC65b4BGVT5SuUJY8SxLyopmqsAMEu8GvdENxDsa6VcjQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nordicsemi.no X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0e5b327f-7f8c-4126-a889-08d81825d6b2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Jun 2020 10:03:26.7084 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 28e5afa2-bf6f-419a-8cf6-b31c6e9e5e8d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: MLFeTSIPookH7oPHpqsEUgRnSOVqW9fTcaSVdf7gTd+CouVVn2Hppogos7Iv5LCuxJ/NUL8S4ri3MQchfjJ5cCKrehSX+80pDO3mKkVxhyIp6JC/94VT4QhkuoY7Thlm X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR05MB4515 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Manifest-07 review X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:03:32 -0000 Hi guys, here is a review of manifest-07. Mostly small stuff. Questions: . Section 6.4: What are the guidelines for extracting the vendor-id, class-= id, device-id, or version of a component? . Suit-condition-component-offset is used in an example, but marked as TBD = in its section. I see that it is described in 6.4 as "assert(offsetof(compo= nent) =3D=3D arg)". What are the semantics of "offsetof"? . Can suit-directive-process-dependency be done on a component, or just on = a dependency? Generally, there seems to be some mismatch between the descri= ption in 6.4 (which implies that most directives and conditions only apply = to a component index) and textual descriptions e.g. in 9.8.4.1 and 9.8.4.2 = (which imply that directives and conditions apply to whichever is available= of component index and dependency index). . (It would be very beneficial to make 6.4 "Abstract Machine Description" m= ore prominent, e.g. by linking from the individual section for commands, si= nce 6.4 contains very useful info about how the commands work, and it's har= d to discover otherwise.) . What (if any) are the rules regarding when to perform dependency-resoluti= on, payload-fetch, and install, and when to perform only validate, load, an= d run? . suit-manifest-sequence-number: "Each Recipient MUST reject any manifest t= hat has a sequence number lower than its current sequence number." Are ther= e several "current sequence number"s or just one for each SUIT processor. E= xactly when is the "current sequence number" updated? . What should the processor do when waiting on a suit-directive-wait? Can i= t be interpreted as "try again later", or "busy wait"? . There are important limitations to what sort of commands can be in suit-c= ommon. Could the limitations be reflected in the CDDL? It seems like a natu= ral thing to do, to make the limitations more prominent. . When processing dependencies, how do we know when to a) expect a signatur= e and b) check the signature on a dependency manifest? . Did we mean for short payloads to be embeddable in the manifest (I can't = find this)? This would be very useful for setting configuration options via= SUIT manifests.=20 . Is the device-identifier unique for each individual device, or for a coll= ection of devices?=09 . Why are suit-directive-set-component-index and suit-directive-set-depende= ncy-index not implemented through set-parameters? Are they subject to the s= ame override mechanics? If not, it might be confusing with suit-parameter-s= ource-component, which seems to be analogous to set-component-index, but mi= ght have subtly different behavior because of override mechanics. Nits: . Suit-directive-fetch: "manifest-index" is not referred to elsewhere in th= e document. . Section 7: Suggested edit in bold: "A digest should always be set using O= verride Parameters, since this prevents a less-privileged dependent OR depe= ndency from replacing the digest." . suit-condition-update-authorized seems like it could use some metadata to= help determine what is being authorized, e.g. A human readable prompt if u= ser interaction is required, or an identifier if multiple instances of the = condition are used in a manifest. Thanks for the good work, =D8yvind From nobody Wed Jun 24 04:28:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E8163A0D6A for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 04:28:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=74wrZW9o; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=74wrZW9o Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EbbUsY-qVbg2 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 04:28:50 -0700 (PDT) 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Wed, 24 Jun 2020 11:28:39 +0000 From: Brendan Moran To: suit CC: Henk Birkholz , Koen Zandberg , Hannes Tschofenig Thread-Topic: Some proposals for updates to the SUIT manifest specification Thread-Index: AQHWShqbFYlFIQ7qD0ivO12T8G5lDg== Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 11:28:39 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Authentication-Results-Original: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=arm.com; x-originating-ip: [82.20.19.206] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-HT: Tenant X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 0227867d-b07e-4f7d-3cc2-08d81831c21a x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM5PR0801MB1745:|AM5PR0801MB1665: x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: x-checkrecipientrouted: true nodisclaimer: true x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0444EB1997 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(Fed)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=F8nningstad=2C_=D8yvind?= , suit Thread-Topic: Manifest-07 review Thread-Index: AdZJ/dxWDAt2IAgGSk6bbwUyoDHNSgALZjZA Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 13:29:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: nordicsemi.no; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;nordicsemi.no; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [132.163.220.253] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d7e20e5e-ad9e-4b6a-7f0a-08d81842afd4 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CH2PR09MB4474: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0444EB1997 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 9OXe7GHsbfrdprshEtkSbxCrnYkhvv2x/SHYb623+uHnhBuUz6gnBfuvUEr8bpV/+Q1reET4H67uao9FMfB7FyCVDCu9hLqJJLVpy39Ga7kRh12YycBtK3j69kl5NIIYH3bUWJWF8Nn/BD4qfM94h5o5kmQ7ewecFn22hsd3KeRsPi2Knd/vPb/qoSukl+cGlXNQE/IT+KZKfE9VFo015qeLLrXoIj7m1Yzg+78hLrnshxzcYPCm23L4mk766P/NTqf2SCp6ru6xXoFdgK2xd+xXqAooDjea6/FUl1x08gWB1Qrr3UPHBREVogEVanL02Z5Ci8DG++exN1weNzFGgt45l0hePaStUUJ8G6/IhY73HwHEKSrO9pKwSCv35Rd5sY1jiIWsdA6L4K5pJytWwg== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CH2PR09MB4251.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(346002)(376002)(136003)(39850400004)(396003)(366004)(8676002)(76116006)(52536014)(66556008)(8936002)(186003)(66946007)(83380400001)(316002)(26005)(66476007)(66574015)(64756008)(66446008)(110136005)(966005)(71200400001)(5660300002)(86362001)(6506007)(33656002)(53546011)(9686003)(2906002)(7696005)(55016002)(45080400002)(478600001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CH2PR09MB4251.namprd09.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d7e20e5e-ad9e-4b6a-7f0a-08d81842afd4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Jun 2020 13:29:56.8547 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: iZA1bgMpw5Dc3zp7Oamk78/ZRPny9+A477UCRykeJk14rQcTha6xJt3vmDvSVGjyvbi8IpBvApvK0sfOUhvb0g== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR09MB4474 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 13:30:00 -0000 =D8yvind, Thanks for this review! Dave -----Original Message----- From: Suit On Behalf Of R=F8nningstad, =D8yvind Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 6:03 AM To: suit Subject: [Suit] Manifest-07 review Hi guys, here is a review of manifest-07. Mostly small stuff. Questions: .. Section 6.4: What are the guidelines for extracting the vendor-id, class= -id, device-id, or version of a component? .. Suit-condition-component-offset is used in an example, but marked as TBD= in its section. I see that it is described in 6.4 as "assert(offsetof(comp= onent) =3D=3D arg)". What are the semantics of "offsetof"? .. Can suit-directive-process-dependency be done on a component, or just on= a dependency? Generally, there seems to be some mismatch between the descr= iption in 6.4 (which implies that most directives and conditions only apply= to a component index) and textual descriptions e.g. in 9.8.4.1 and 9.8.4.2= (which imply that directives and conditions apply to whichever is availabl= e of component index and dependency index). .. (It would be very beneficial to make 6.4 "Abstract Machine Description" = more prominent, e.g. by linking from the individual section for commands, s= ince 6.4 contains very useful info about how the commands work, and it's ha= rd to discover otherwise.) .. What (if any) are the rules regarding when to= perform dependency-resolution, payload-fetch, and install, and when to per= form only validate, load, and run? .. suit-manifest-sequence-number: "Each Recipient MUST reject any manifest = that has a sequence number lower than its current sequence number." Are the= re several "current sequence number"s or just one for each SUIT processor. = Exactly when is the "current sequence number" updated? .. What should the processor do when waiting on a suit-directive-wait? Can = it be interpreted as "try again later", or "busy wait"? .. There are important limitations to what sort of commands can be in suit-= common. Could the limitations be reflected in the CDDL? It seems like a nat= ural thing to do, to make the limitations more prominent. .. When processing dependencies, how do we know when to a) expect a signatu= re and b) check the signature on a dependency manifest? .. Did we mean for short payloads to be embeddable in the manifest (I can't= find this)? This would be very useful for setting configuration options vi= a SUIT manifests.=20 .. Is the device-identifier unique for each individual device, or for a col= lection of devices?=09 .. Why are suit-directive-set-component-index and suit-directive-set-depend= ency-index not implemented through set-parameters? Are they subject to the = same override mechanics? If not, it might be confusing with suit-parameter-= source-component, which seems to be analogous to set-component-index, but m= ight have subtly different behavior because of override mechanics. Nits: .. Suit-directive-fetch: "manifest-index" is not referred to elsewhere in t= he document. .. Section 7: Suggested edit in bold: "A digest should always be set using = Override Parameters, since this prevents a less-privileged dependent OR dep= endency from replacing the digest." .. suit-condition-update-authorized seems like it could use some metadata t= o help determine what is being authorized, e.g. A human readable prompt if = user interaction is required, or an identifier if multiple instances of the= condition are used in a manifest. Thanks for the good work, =D8yvind _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.iet= f.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40n= ist.gov%7C909e99a025494e915e6008d81825e30f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61d= ec%7C1%7C0%7C637285898291416907&sdata=3DHww6iMALkbaHZQLb1VeYGCDfb7yrQGb= pUbUa%2FD5u4Fo%3D&reserved=3D0 From nobody Wed Jun 24 06:34:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70A6A3A0DC3 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 06:34:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_GOV_DKIM_AU=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nist.gov Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ejyubjxz50Pm for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 06:34:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GCC02-BL0-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2gcc02on2119.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.89.119]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0E773A0C69 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 06:34:55 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Qn63LllsJHoxOvg1nPbWsJD5/Kqg2zSmNLTrF3nnpWSxwpcn8SUvSuqXNFRufAgfUXz6RkI67cQsEi0IH+C3harHdbLWWHzCUZt+ExEy7N/7LVk82h7fYMKtj58Fx0WjinT+wjVLmMFpAgb+VBNDKxVcGHZsfIZYLuuQvqNJrBpB0zO/cN8P5uG4T9zLF3fhnqHlJY2vqgsIid7nKJKDfBnpJKHB8SrghX4dD8+PIhImodIrbZ0cWbL64NVEsd6HDU+FwC3JZCwEdUyABZIyr/uHtvNeQNQOgejmI2OI3E8agsmtL8ev0Houc+PPksZ6dCUmoHhMQrCQh5r99qAZ9Q== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=WYOwkykUrGivhbTb9l05i3U8yCx4w7Tql1Nhq8Ial2M=; b=D9Cm92Ub0PBlpEJEW3wcSR0Av0mPolKauyuoxmx5kPgrwLjj5UE+Dd4616+XUCu8rwN5hwJ3KwrhF4xiqBuNSGL9lUb7JgJxUWIz0vxh0EtI0gHS985Te5ZjP7mXcjoAMpZ++CEW51jRdKWI7oxPoX9TfZvn37Pqdlr7pvjM2q2zykiu+ov+V5lx4/81dXOHbhk17fEzZ7al5THUfC/USCXUEoZznmyyK1bdYYSTL1IRJf6dJDoVpkgMvc38r1gEibwvJKFRpQIVz/6185ZwPP5gOgpdr92X5HtkWZVcWPGqhdc2UqDzJ9/27PKf2sZb5IQzLWrcY4MHC//ALcp/uw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nist.gov; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nist.gov; dkim=pass header.d=nist.gov; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nist.gov; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=WYOwkykUrGivhbTb9l05i3U8yCx4w7Tql1Nhq8Ial2M=; b=BsvP49lTu2k7MrV8TyUiJBXtWbFjixGh5daO02njNAxHOFh5S3EvjI6E/SzIuklIa28XrO7svRuzAZ4ENa4h2QAZIw89fJ+fll86vXYbRoyIEpyJyEfZw+64HGySRKh9CHqYbbuZqKnYbXOkikJC3WgXNugdCymVAOVrrwlI+bw= Received: from CH2PR09MB4251.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:36::17) by CH2PR09MB4489.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:6a::9) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3109.22; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 13:34:53 +0000 Received: from CH2PR09MB4251.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ddf9:c0ba:7ee3:c00f]) by CH2PR09MB4251.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ddf9:c0ba:7ee3:c00f%6]) with mapi id 15.20.3131.020; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 13:34:53 +0000 From: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" To: Emmanuel Baccelli , suit Thread-Topic: [Suit] Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? Thread-Index: AdY+g8RioMdZuMGSTiyeIUnWZR+rOAABnQhwArrkIZAABA8aYAAAQqEwACG/1AAAB3zesA== Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 13:34:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: inria.fr; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;inria.fr; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [132.163.220.253] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 17bce8a2-c743-4b70-8e3d-08d8184360c0 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CH2PR09MB4489: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0444EB1997 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: b7wQvGGjrFYGa781Zto9GS9sKAOoGhtNDr4yN4Fh8Aqn+a1cngzGpnxGk+EPr7tqZt753vshmy+PTi/HFTwGXusf6rQxGecaX+PDUMpfXCFQH4FtPXrhoFHkgYJ7+saHak2haxG6dTDr5is152lX9kmM8/q1tge900iynkgQ5sQUxuGw6A05yeuRJySEV6kdw5IhLVTP2SNuC7EG+4zZ3GRki8cy0cZbNV8TzK5KRDKK2M/dmciU4nC7sqEwjs+HxXai2/VBVAl85X3SFMatn6T6wlL9l0Rg+pvRSTALTvjJxR5RzPBGlpKNhdBe0yRn1g5ftEZ8GkPc2FG+jPy4jkHGso7QFIfuQpmsM/CwoHEkzgchsCKYbGaW3u7mNiUJuR6Mj1mvMb2mq1BS7TP8Pg== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CH2PR09MB4251.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(39850400004)(396003)(376002)(136003)(366004)(346002)(9686003)(66556008)(66446008)(110136005)(33656002)(53546011)(26005)(8676002)(2906002)(7696005)(6506007)(186003)(8936002)(316002)(966005)(66476007)(55016002)(478600001)(45080400002)(66946007)(5660300002)(166002)(52536014)(83380400001)(71200400001)(64756008)(76116006)(86362001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CH2PR09MB425173ADFFEC81637F2298E6F0950CH2PR09MB4251namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 17bce8a2-c743-4b70-8e3d-08d8184360c0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Jun 2020 13:34:53.6648 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Wo5ItPdSodx3vLfA/pnGn9nIyavh+6DpAWeXJQwf6Ng/ZRyI7MW/G7M+Wa3fm6uLD74+uzO9llSZ+MaNTLNPyQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR09MB4489 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Is draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 ready for WGLC? X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 13:34:58 -0000 --_000_CH2PR09MB425173ADFFEC81637F2298E6F0950CH2PR09MB4251namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RW1tYW51ZWwsDQoNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIHVwZGF0ZS4gVGhpcyBpcyBnb29kIG5ld3MuDQoN CkhhdmUgeW91IGhhZCBhIGNoYW5jZSB0byByZXZpZXcgdGhlIHVwZGF0ZXMgdGhhdCBCcmVuZGFu IGlzIHByb3Bvc2luZz8gV2lsbCB0aGVzZSBjaGFuZ2VzIGltcGFjdCB5b3VyIHNjaGVkdWxlPw0K DQpUaGFua3MsDQpEYXZlDQoNCkZyb206IFN1aXQgPHN1aXQtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZz4gT24g QmVoYWxmIE9mIEVtbWFudWVsIEJhY2NlbGxpDQpTZW50OiBXZWRuZXNkYXksIEp1bmUgMjQsIDIw MjAgNTo1OSBBTQ0KVG86IHN1aXQgPHN1aXRAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW1N1aXRd IElzIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtc3VpdC1tYW5pZmVzdC0wNyByZWFkeSBmb3IgV0dMQz8NCg0KSGkgRGF2 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24 Jun 2020 09:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 24 Jun 2020 09:35:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=yyJuGEgcSFNTe24tGQIVNpEglusHFE9+xYCvRdUcW gM=; b=GTXW410WBlr4XfZ7+xgQBJSXhhN2vTc31n2TcHzfZi3hW/NerrnxcGkWy j4Fgj+yTKg7RT2kkSsGSz7QgrHUgr2cJzhZhINfwDp7mqlnT3Iab01I4pY+Y5C+G 7NuD7esTfHNUQI+bNDpmd9Pz5ijtwpwt4+bcSC609D2Tl3M9CGvNqNBmSMhOZuET CE8fW8QRhBIA3EgDCaSnc6muyPJz+zcdgLiS6frLIPw9BiZQrs76EzYZUs9hGpr+ rN9WWqF0AUllZedCZC65ubk86loFCvA0Nn0SBMq63x1QDALTS1rdkijV3RKyljUZ a5RjG1r3K9rssdHNrIdA9CTFzVRng== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudekjedgheelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhephffvfhgjufffohfkgggtgffothesthhqredtvddtudenucfhrhhomhepfdff ihgtkhcuuehrohhokhhsfdcuoeguihgtkhesrhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrg hlhihtihgtshdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepgffhvdeuieehgfdvhfdtheff feffvdejteejffduffegffelvdefiedtueeffedunecuffhomhgrihhnpehrvghlihgrsg hlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihthhitghsrdgtohhmpdhouhhtlhhoohhkrdgtohhmpdhi vghtfhdrohdpihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecukfhppedvudeirdduleefrddugedvrddvvdenuc evlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeguihgtkhes rhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from farpoint (unknown [216.193.142.22]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 65C833280059; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 09:35:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: "'Waltermire, David A. \(Fed\)'" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?'R=F8nningstad=2C_=D8yvind'?= , "'suit'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 09:35:44 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <1cd0f01d64a2c$5e98ffb0$1bcaff10$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQKpL0nszvV6zOMibCT1agukCYEJygIeSVKVpzEGnuA= Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 13:35:52 -0000 Are there plans for a standard file naming nomenclature to identify = software objects that contain a suit manifest?=20 Today, I use the filename extension to drive an introspection procedure = to generate an SBOM and having a defined filename extension to indicate = that a suit manifest is present would help, otherwise I have to parse each file = to determine which SBOM introspection procedure to invoke. Thanks, Dick Brooks Never trust software, always verify and report! =99 http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 -----Original Message----- From: Suit On Behalf Of Waltermire, David A. = (Fed) Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 9:30 AM To: R=F8nningstad, =D8yvind ; suit Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review =D8yvind, Thanks for this review! Dave -----Original Message----- From: Suit On Behalf Of R=F8nningstad, =D8yvind Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 6:03 AM To: suit Subject: [Suit] Manifest-07 review Hi guys, here is a review of manifest-07. Mostly small stuff. Questions: ... Section 6.4: What are the guidelines for extracting the vendor-id, class-id, device-id, or version of a component? ... Suit-condition-component-offset is used in an example, but marked as = TBD in its section. I see that it is described in 6.4 as "assert(offsetof(component) =3D=3D arg)". What are the semantics of = "offsetof"? ... Can suit-directive-process-dependency be done on a component, or = just on a dependency? Generally, there seems to be some mismatch between the description in 6.4 (which implies that most directives and conditions = only apply to a component index) and textual descriptions e.g. in 9.8.4.1 and 9.8.4.2 (which imply that directives and conditions apply to whichever = is available of component index and dependency index). ... (It would be very beneficial to make 6.4 "Abstract Machine = Description" more prominent, e.g. by linking from the individual section for = commands, since 6.4 contains very useful info about how the commands work, and = it's hard to discover otherwise.) .. What (if any) are the rules regarding = when to perform dependency-resolution, payload-fetch, and install, and when = to perform only validate, load, and run? ... suit-manifest-sequence-number: "Each Recipient MUST reject any = manifest that has a sequence number lower than its current sequence number." Are there several "current sequence number"s or just one for each SUIT processor. Exactly when is the "current sequence number" updated? ... What should the processor do when waiting on a suit-directive-wait? = Can it be interpreted as "try again later", or "busy wait"? ... There are important limitations to what sort of commands can be in suit-common. Could the limitations be reflected in the CDDL? It seems = like a natural thing to do, to make the limitations more prominent. ... When processing dependencies, how do we know when to a) expect a signature and b) check the signature on a dependency manifest? ... Did we mean for short payloads to be embeddable in the manifest (I = can't find this)? This would be very useful for setting configuration options = via SUIT manifests.=20 ... Is the device-identifier unique for each individual device, or for a collection of devices?=09 ... Why are suit-directive-set-component-index and suit-directive-set-dependency-index not implemented through = set-parameters? Are they subject to the same override mechanics? If not, it might be confusing with suit-parameter-source-component, which seems to be = analogous to set-component-index, but might have subtly different behavior because = of override mechanics. Nits: ... Suit-directive-fetch: "manifest-index" is not referred to elsewhere = in the document. ... Section 7: Suggested edit in bold: "A digest should always be set = using Override Parameters, since this prevents a less-privileged dependent OR dependency from replacing the digest." ... suit-condition-update-authorized seems like it could use some = metadata to help determine what is being authorized, e.g. A human readable prompt = if user interaction is required, or an identifier if multiple instances of = the condition are used in a manifest. Thanks for the good work, =D8yvind _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.i= etf.o rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40ni= st.go v%7C909e99a025494e915e6008d81825e30f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7= C1% 7C0%7C637285898291416907&sdata=3DHww6iMALkbaHZQLb1VeYGCDfb7yrQGbpUbUa= %2FD5 u4Fo%3D&reserved=3D0 _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit From nobody Wed Jun 24 06:42:29 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D65C93A0DC3 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 06:42:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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d="scan'208";a="116169953" Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de ([141.12.72.89]) by mail-mtaS26.fraunhofer.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 24 Jun 2020 15:48:33 +0200 Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-10) with ESMTPS id 05ODmXUI021882 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 24 Jun 2020 15:48:33 +0200 Received: from [192.168.16.50] (79.234.126.119) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 15:48:28 +0200 To: Brendan Moran , Dick Brooks CC: suit , "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" References: <1cd0f01d64a2c$5e98ffb0$1bcaff10$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <54E7F290-B43D-4D72-9E8C-DE1B7E74F03E@arm.com> From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 15:48:26 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <54E7F290-B43D-4D72-9E8C-DE1B7E74F03E@arm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [79.234.126.119] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 13:48:43 -0000 Are we talking about every "software object" that starts with a CBOR tag as defined in this document? I assume that a manifest in the form of a file can be wrapped or not be wrapped in a SUIT envelope. Would that result in the same file extension ".suit"? Viele Grüße, Henk On 24.06.20 15:42, Brendan Moran wrote: > The intent is to register a CBOR tag that identifies the manifest envelope. This allows detection of manifests by signature in the first 2-3 bytes. A typical filename extension would be fine. I think the most suitable suggestion would be “.suit” if that suits the working group. We’re past the days of 3 letter extensions now, right? > > Best Regards, > Brendan > >> On 24 Jun 2020, at 14:35, Dick Brooks wrote: >> >> Are there plans for a standard file naming nomenclature to identify software >> objects that contain a suit manifest? >> >> Today, I use the filename extension to drive an introspection procedure to >> generate an SBOM and having a defined filename extension to indicate that a >> suit manifest is present would help, otherwise I have to parse each file to >> determine which SBOM introspection procedure to invoke. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dick Brooks >> >> Never trust software, always verify and report! T >> http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com >> Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com >> Tel: +1 978-696-1788 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Suit On Behalf Of Waltermire, David A. (Fed) >> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 9:30 AM >> To: Rønningstad, Øyvind ; suit >> >> Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review >> >> Øyvind, >> >> Thanks for this review! >> >> Dave >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Suit On Behalf Of Rønningstad, Øyvind >> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 6:03 AM >> To: suit >> Subject: [Suit] Manifest-07 review >> >> Hi guys, here is a review of manifest-07. Mostly small stuff. >> >> Questions: >> .... Section 6.4: What are the guidelines for extracting the vendor-id, >> class-id, device-id, or version of a component? >> .... Suit-condition-component-offset is used in an example, but marked as TBD >> in its section. I see that it is described in 6.4 as >> "assert(offsetof(component) == arg)". What are the semantics of "offsetof"? >> .... Can suit-directive-process-dependency be done on a component, or just on >> a dependency? Generally, there seems to be some mismatch between the >> description in 6.4 (which implies that most directives and conditions only >> apply to a component index) and textual descriptions e.g. in 9.8.4.1 and >> 9.8.4.2 (which imply that directives and conditions apply to whichever is >> available of component index and dependency index). >> .... (It would be very beneficial to make 6.4 "Abstract Machine Description" >> more prominent, e.g. by linking from the individual section for commands, >> since 6.4 contains very useful info about how the commands work, and it's >> hard to discover otherwise.) .. What (if any) are the rules regarding when >> to perform dependency-resolution, payload-fetch, and install, and when to >> perform only validate, load, and run? >> .... suit-manifest-sequence-number: "Each Recipient MUST reject any manifest >> that has a sequence number lower than its current sequence number." Are >> there several "current sequence number"s or just one for each SUIT >> processor. Exactly when is the "current sequence number" updated? >> .... What should the processor do when waiting on a suit-directive-wait? Can >> it be interpreted as "try again later", or "busy wait"? >> .... There are important limitations to what sort of commands can be in >> suit-common. Could the limitations be reflected in the CDDL? It seems like a >> natural thing to do, to make the limitations more prominent. >> .... When processing dependencies, how do we know when to a) expect a >> signature and b) check the signature on a dependency manifest? >> .... Did we mean for short payloads to be embeddable in the manifest (I can't >> find this)? This would be very useful for setting configuration options via >> SUIT manifests. >> .... Is the device-identifier unique for each individual device, or for a >> collection of devices? >> .... Why are suit-directive-set-component-index and >> suit-directive-set-dependency-index not implemented through set-parameters? >> Are they subject to the same override mechanics? If not, it might be >> confusing with suit-parameter-source-component, which seems to be analogous >> to set-component-index, but might have subtly different behavior because of >> override mechanics. >> >> Nits: >> .... Suit-directive-fetch: "manifest-index" is not referred to elsewhere in >> the document. >> .... Section 7: Suggested edit in bold: "A digest should always be set using >> Override Parameters, since this prevents a less-privileged dependent OR >> dependency from replacing the digest." >> .... suit-condition-update-authorized seems like it could use some metadata >> to help determine what is being authorized, e.g. A human readable prompt if >> user interaction is required, or an identifier if multiple instances of the >> condition are used in a manifest. >> >> >> Thanks for the good work, >> >> Øyvind >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Suit mailing list >> Suit@ietf.org >> https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.o >> rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40nist..go >> v%7C909e99a025494e915e6008d81825e30f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1% >> 7C0%7C637285898291416907&sdata=Hww6iMALkbaHZQLb1VeYGCDfb7yrQGbpUbUa%2FD5 >> u4Fo%3D&reserved=0 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Suit mailing list >> Suit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Suit mailing list >> Suit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit > > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit > From nobody Wed Jun 24 07:01:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BF73A0DB7 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 07:01:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XHkjH4DPg1aP for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 07:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 090523A0DC3 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 07:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B4AB300B74 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:01:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id k_J1T5LDwPDr for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-72-66-113-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.113.56]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8431A3004AF; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:01:34 -0400 Cc: suit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <74DED04B-800F-405A-B0F6-CD0AD125B04A@vigilsec.com> References: <1cd0f01d64a2c$5e98ffb0$1bcaff10$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <54E7F290-B43D-4D72-9E8C-DE1B7E74F03E@arm.com> To: Brendan Moran X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 14:01:46 -0000 I think .suit is a very reasonable choice. We may also want to add a = section that registers a media type for the manifest files, which helps = with fetching these by HTTP and HTTPS. Russ > On Jun 24, 2020, at 9:48 AM, Henk Birkholz = wrote: >=20 > Are we talking about every "software object" that starts with a CBOR = tag as defined in this document? >=20 > I assume that a manifest in the form of a file can be wrapped or not = be wrapped in a SUIT envelope. Would that result in the same file = extension ".suit"? >=20 > Viele Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, >=20 > Henk >=20 > On 24.06.20 15:42, Brendan Moran wrote: >> The intent is to register a CBOR tag that identifies the manifest = envelope. This allows detection of manifests by signature in the first = 2-3 bytes. A typical filename extension would be fine. I think the most = suitable suggestion would be =E2=80=9C.suit=E2=80=9D if that suits the = working group. We=E2=80=99re past the days of 3 letter extensions now, = right? >> Best Regards, >> Brendan >>> On 24 Jun 2020, at 14:35, Dick Brooks = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Are there plans for a standard file naming nomenclature to identify = software >>> objects that contain a suit manifest? >>>=20 >>> Today, I use the filename extension to drive an introspection = procedure to >>> generate an SBOM and having a defined filename extension to indicate = that a >>> suit manifest is present would help, otherwise I have to parse each = file to >>> determine which SBOM introspection procedure to invoke. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>>=20 >>> Dick Brooks >>>=20 >>> Never trust software, always verify and report! T >>> http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com >>> Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com >>> Tel: +1 978-696-1788 >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Suit On Behalf Of Waltermire, David A. = (Fed) >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 9:30 AM >>> To: R=C3=B8nningstad, =C3=98yvind = ; suit >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review >>>=20 >>> =C3=98yvind, >>>=20 >>> Thanks for this review! >>>=20 >>> Dave >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Suit On Behalf Of R=C3=B8nningstad, = =C3=98yvind >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 6:03 AM >>> To: suit >>> Subject: [Suit] Manifest-07 review >>>=20 >>> Hi guys, here is a review of manifest-07. Mostly small stuff. >>>=20 >>> Questions: >>> .... Section 6.4: What are the guidelines for extracting the = vendor-id, >>> class-id, device-id, or version of a component? >>> .... Suit-condition-component-offset is used in an example, but = marked as TBD >>> in its section. I see that it is described in 6.4 as >>> "assert(offsetof(component) =3D=3D arg)". What are the semantics of = "offsetof"? >>> .... Can suit-directive-process-dependency be done on a component, = or just on >>> a dependency? Generally, there seems to be some mismatch between the >>> description in 6.4 (which implies that most directives and = conditions only >>> apply to a component index) and textual descriptions e.g. in 9.8.4.1 = and >>> 9.8.4.2 (which imply that directives and conditions apply to = whichever is >>> available of component index and dependency index). >>> .... (It would be very beneficial to make 6.4 "Abstract Machine = Description" >>> more prominent, e.g. by linking from the individual section for = commands, >>> since 6.4 contains very useful info about how the commands work, and = it's >>> hard to discover otherwise.) .. What (if any) are the rules = regarding when >>> to perform dependency-resolution, payload-fetch, and install, and = when to >>> perform only validate, load, and run? >>> .... suit-manifest-sequence-number: "Each Recipient MUST reject any = manifest >>> that has a sequence number lower than its current sequence number." = Are >>> there several "current sequence number"s or just one for each SUIT >>> processor. Exactly when is the "current sequence number" updated? >>> .... What should the processor do when waiting on a = suit-directive-wait? Can >>> it be interpreted as "try again later", or "busy wait"? >>> .... There are important limitations to what sort of commands can be = in >>> suit-common. Could the limitations be reflected in the CDDL? It = seems like a >>> natural thing to do, to make the limitations more prominent. >>> .... When processing dependencies, how do we know when to a) expect = a >>> signature and b) check the signature on a dependency manifest? >>> .... Did we mean for short payloads to be embeddable in the manifest = (I can't >>> find this)? This would be very useful for setting configuration = options via >>> SUIT manifests. >>> .... Is the device-identifier unique for each individual device, or = for a >>> collection of devices? >>> .... Why are suit-directive-set-component-index and >>> suit-directive-set-dependency-index not implemented through = set-parameters? >>> Are they subject to the same override mechanics? If not, it might be >>> confusing with suit-parameter-source-component, which seems to be = analogous >>> to set-component-index, but might have subtly different behavior = because of >>> override mechanics. >>>=20 >>> Nits: >>> .... Suit-directive-fetch: "manifest-index" is not referred to = elsewhere in >>> the document. >>> .... Section 7: Suggested edit in bold: "A digest should always be = set using >>> Override Parameters, since this prevents a less-privileged dependent = OR >>> dependency from replacing the digest." >>> .... suit-condition-update-authorized seems like it could use some = metadata >>> to help determine what is being authorized, e.g. A human readable = prompt if >>> user interaction is required, or an identifier if multiple instances = of the >>> condition are used in a manifest. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thanks for the good work, >>>=20 >>> =C3=98yvind >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Suit mailing list >>> Suit@ietf.org >>> = https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ie= tf.o >>> = rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40nis= t..go >>> = v%7C909e99a025494e915e6008d81825e30f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C= 1% >>> = 7C0%7C637285898291416907&sdata=3DHww6iMALkbaHZQLb1VeYGCDfb7yrQGbpUbUa%= 2FD5 >>> u4Fo%3D&reserved=3D0 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Suit mailing list >>> Suit@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Suit mailing list >>> Suit@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit >> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. >> _______________________________________________ >> Suit mailing list >> Suit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit From nobody Wed Jun 24 07:23:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 077C13A0E3B for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 07:23:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oz9ydgu9oMOQ for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 07:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19AA53A0E34 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 07:22:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D6F5C00A5; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:22:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=EVQJ7z6rDUja3Fa4V8uUcGYx1NEUqkOKf14mH62Vz Zs=; b=cVRbMORCAiv1x1zR8bfWpieSwXpfr118ZUXCYIQhUR3QNsGMpCTD1EQch AarpmoayyjV3QgFGHXQgOcuec21KNYIDNpZ/uwH5Bbb3hvdtXkRSMqpleAPY5ZNa Sk2rP3pBoIPcY6CMjlSdGpa2xRgVzFz0QI6R3XfqzAj4sm1E9EiirGRmxlhJkZ/g oFpYT3A5pO2Ydt1/23JDFqyP8VBKFTRzcuTOpw07/3N2jGChZGfNNWVs3xQztWod ahjexUQPqJyaWSPPa16xfkv4rwL+abAHg+NykXmNKEQD5rAHDjLvsASIkI31aI9O 7swm+VEU4sOQHvLNyiJ31sdCUFk7Q== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudekjedgieelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhephffvfhgjufffohfkgggtgffothesthhqredtvddtjeenucfhrhhomhepfdff ihgtkhcuuehrohhokhhsfdcuoeguihgtkhesrhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrg hlhihtihgtshdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepjeetffetfeduieelhfelieef vefgfeevgeetledttefhuefggfffhfehveeluefgnecuffhomhgrihhnpehrvghlihgrsg hlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihthhitghsrdgtohhmnecukfhppedvudeirdduleefrddu gedvrddvvdenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhroh hmpeguihgtkhesrhgvlhhirggslhgvvghnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from farpoint (unknown [216.193.142.22]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5D5E43280066; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:22:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: "'Russ Housley'" , "'Brendan Moran'" Cc: "'suit'" References: <1cd0f01d64a2c$5e98ffb0$1bcaff10$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <54E7F290-B43D-4D72-9E8C-DE1B7E74F03E@arm.com> <74DED04B-800F-405A-B0F6-CD0AD125B04A@vigilsec.com> In-Reply-To: <74DED04B-800F-405A-B0F6-CD0AD125B04A@vigilsec.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:22:53 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <1d06d01d64a32$f4b6f6e0$de24e4a0$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQKpL0nszvV6zOMibCT1agukCYEJygIeSVKVAmLOQoQBg0fzvgH/P7tTAUui7qmm94z8wA== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 14:23:01 -0000 +1 +1 +1 That would be greatly appreciated - Thanks Russ.=20 Thanks, Dick Brooks Never trust software, always verify and report! =E2=84=A2 http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 -----Original Message----- From: Suit On Behalf Of Russ Housley Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 10:02 AM To: Brendan Moran Cc: suit Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review I think .suit is a very reasonable choice. We may also want to add a = section that registers a media type for the manifest files, which helps = with fetching these by HTTP and HTTPS. Russ > On Jun 24, 2020, at 9:48 AM, Henk Birkholz = wrote: >=20 > Are we talking about every "software object" that starts with a CBOR = tag as defined in this document? >=20 > I assume that a manifest in the form of a file can be wrapped or not = be wrapped in a SUIT envelope. Would that result in the same file = extension ".suit"? >=20 > Viele Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, >=20 > Henk >=20 > On 24.06.20 15:42, Brendan Moran wrote: >> The intent is to register a CBOR tag that identifies the manifest = envelope. This allows detection of manifests by signature in the first = 2-3 bytes. A typical filename extension would be fine. I think the most = suitable suggestion would be =E2=80=9C.suit=E2=80=9D if that suits the = working group. We=E2=80=99re past the days of 3 letter extensions now, = right? >> Best Regards, >> Brendan >>> On 24 Jun 2020, at 14:35, Dick Brooks = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Are there plans for a standard file naming nomenclature to identify=20 >>> software objects that contain a suit manifest? >>>=20 >>> Today, I use the filename extension to drive an introspection=20 >>> procedure to generate an SBOM and having a defined filename=20 >>> extension to indicate that a suit manifest is present would help,=20 >>> otherwise I have to parse each file to determine which SBOM = introspection procedure to invoke. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>>=20 >>> Dick Brooks >>>=20 >>> Never trust software, always verify and report! T=20 >>> http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com >>> Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com >>> Tel: +1 978-696-1788 >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Suit On Behalf Of Waltermire, David A. = >>> (Fed) >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 9:30 AM >>> To: R=C3=B8nningstad, =C3=98yvind = ; suit=20 >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review >>>=20 >>> =C3=98yvind, >>>=20 >>> Thanks for this review! >>>=20 >>> Dave >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Suit On Behalf Of R=C3=B8nningstad, = =C3=98yvind >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 6:03 AM >>> To: suit >>> Subject: [Suit] Manifest-07 review >>>=20 >>> Hi guys, here is a review of manifest-07. Mostly small stuff. >>>=20 >>> Questions: >>> .... Section 6.4: What are the guidelines for extracting the=20 >>> vendor-id, class-id, device-id, or version of a component? >>> .... Suit-condition-component-offset is used in an example, but=20 >>> marked as TBD in its section. I see that it is described in 6.4 as >>> "assert(offsetof(component) =3D=3D arg)". What are the semantics of = "offsetof"? >>> .... Can suit-directive-process-dependency be done on a component,=20 >>> or just on a dependency? Generally, there seems to be some mismatch=20 >>> between the description in 6.4 (which implies that most directives=20 >>> and conditions only apply to a component index) and textual=20 >>> descriptions e.g. in 9.8.4.1 and >>> 9.8.4.2 (which imply that directives and conditions apply to=20 >>> whichever is available of component index and dependency index). >>> .... (It would be very beneficial to make 6.4 "Abstract Machine = Description" >>> more prominent, e.g. by linking from the individual section for=20 >>> commands, since 6.4 contains very useful info about how the commands = >>> work, and it's hard to discover otherwise.) .. What (if any) are the = >>> rules regarding when to perform dependency-resolution,=20 >>> payload-fetch, and install, and when to perform only validate, load, = and run? >>> .... suit-manifest-sequence-number: "Each Recipient MUST reject any=20 >>> manifest that has a sequence number lower than its current sequence=20 >>> number." Are there several "current sequence number"s or just one=20 >>> for each SUIT processor. Exactly when is the "current sequence = number" updated? >>> .... What should the processor do when waiting on a=20 >>> suit-directive-wait? Can it be interpreted as "try again later", or = "busy wait"? >>> .... There are important limitations to what sort of commands can be = >>> in suit-common. Could the limitations be reflected in the CDDL? It=20 >>> seems like a natural thing to do, to make the limitations more = prominent. >>> .... When processing dependencies, how do we know when to a) expect=20 >>> a signature and b) check the signature on a dependency manifest? >>> .... Did we mean for short payloads to be embeddable in the manifest = >>> (I can't find this)? This would be very useful for setting=20 >>> configuration options via SUIT manifests. >>> .... Is the device-identifier unique for each individual device, or=20 >>> for a collection of devices? >>> .... Why are suit-directive-set-component-index and=20 >>> suit-directive-set-dependency-index not implemented through = set-parameters? >>> Are they subject to the same override mechanics? If not, it might be = >>> confusing with suit-parameter-source-component, which seems to be=20 >>> analogous to set-component-index, but might have subtly different=20 >>> behavior because of override mechanics. >>>=20 >>> Nits: >>> .... Suit-directive-fetch: "manifest-index" is not referred to=20 >>> elsewhere in the document. >>> .... Section 7: Suggested edit in bold: "A digest should always be=20 >>> set using Override Parameters, since this prevents a less-privileged = >>> dependent OR dependency from replacing the digest." >>> .... suit-condition-update-authorized seems like it could use some=20 >>> metadata to help determine what is being authorized, e.g. A human=20 >>> readable prompt if user interaction is required, or an identifier if = >>> multiple instances of the condition are used in a manifest. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thanks for the good work, >>>=20 >>> =C3=98yvind >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Suit mailing list >>> Suit@ietf.org >>> = https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fww >>> w.ietf.o=20 >>> = rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%4 >>> 0nist..go=20 >>> v%7C909e99a025494e915e6008d81825e30f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61 >>> dec%7C1% >>> = 7C0%7C637285898291416907&sdata=3DHww6iMALkbaHZQLb1VeYGCDfb7yrQGbpU >>> bUa%2FD5 >>> u4Fo%3D&reserved=3D0 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Suit mailing list >>> Suit@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Suit mailing list >>> Suit@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit >> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. >> _______________________________________________ >> Suit mailing list >> Suit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit From nobody Wed Jun 24 07:25:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B079C3A0E45 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 07:25:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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(Fed)" Thread-Topic: [Suit] Manifest-07 review Thread-Index: AdZJ/dxWDAt2IAgGSk6bbwUyoDHNSgALZjZAAAA5wQAAADlfgAAAOC0AAAFFcQA= Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 14:24:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1cd0f01d64a2c$5e98ffb0$1bcaff10$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <54E7F290-B43D-4D72-9E8C-DE1B7E74F03E@arm.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Authentication-Results-Original: sit.fraunhofer.de; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;sit.fraunhofer.de; dmarc=none action=none header.from=arm.com; x-originating-ip: [82.20.19.206] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-HT: Tenant X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: f4a5c16c-3bc2-47a6-6aa5-08d8184a603a x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM6PR08MB3557:|AM0PR08MB3905: X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: x-checkrecipientrouted: true nodisclaimer: true x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508;OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 0444EB1997 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ihthhitghsrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeihfeuudeffeelhfelvdfftdel gfelleejgfdvuedvhfekkeehkeegtdekjeeggfenucffohhmrghinheprhgvlhhirggslh gvvghnvghrghihrghnrghlhihtihgtshdrtghomhenucfkphepvdduiedrudelfedrudeg vddrvddvnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomh epughitghksehrvghlihgrsghlvggvnhgvrhhghigrnhgrlhihthhitghsrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Received: from farpoint (unknown [216.193.142.22]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 22EB5328005A; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:32:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dick Brooks" To: "'Brendan Moran'" , "'Henk Birkholz'" Cc: "'suit'" , "'Waltermire, David A. \(Fed\)'" References: <1cd0f01d64a2c$5e98ffb0$1bcaff10$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <54E7F290-B43D-4D72-9E8C-DE1B7E74F03E@arm.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 10:32:42 -0400 Organization: Reliable Energy Analytics Message-ID: <1d1af01d64a34$53a40020$faec0060$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_1D1B0_01D64A12.CC956D60" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQKpL0nszvV6zOMibCT1agukCYEJygIeSVKVAmLOQoQBg0fzvgH/P7tTAnrL6dCm7hW4UA== Content-Language: en-us Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 14:32:50 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_1D1B0_01D64A12.CC956D60 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_1D1B1_01D64A12.CC956D60" ------=_NextPart_001_1D1B1_01D64A12.CC956D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would find it ideal, for my SAG-PM risk assessment logic, to have the = suit manifest digitally signed and to have that signed manifest = contained in a digitally signed software object so that the two are = forever linked in this =E2=80=9Cvirtual blockchain = relationship=E2=80=9D. =20 Thanks, =20 Dick Brooks Never trust software, = always verify and report! =E2=84=A2 = http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: = dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com Tel: +1 978-696-1788 =20 From: Brendan Moran =20 Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 10:25 AM To: Henk Birkholz Cc: Dick Brooks ; suit = ; Waltermire, David A. (Fed) = Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review =20 I=E2=80=99m not certain what *we* are talking about. *I* am talking = about SUIT_Envelope or, to be more precise, SUIT_Envelope_Tagged (that = is #6.TBD(SUIT_Envelope)). I think that SUIT_Envelope_Tagged could have = a =E2=80=9C.suit=E2=80=9D file name extension. I think it=E2=80=99s = probably a bad idea to have SUIT_Manifest floating around on your system = without the envelope or a signature. Maybe you could add a COSE_Sign to = it. Then, you might want a =E2=80=9C.cose=E2=80=9D file name extension.=20 Brendan On 24 Jun 2020, at 14:48, Henk Birkholz > wrote: =20 Are we talking about every "software object" that starts with a CBOR tag = as defined in this document? I assume that a manifest in the form of a file can be wrapped or not be = wrapped in a SUIT envelope. Would that result in the same file extension = ".suit"? Viele Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Henk On 24.06.20 15:42, Brendan Moran wrote: The intent is to register a CBOR tag that identifies the manifest = envelope. This allows detection of manifests by signature in the first = 2-3 bytes. A typical filename extension would be fine. I think the most = suitable suggestion would be =E2=80=9C.suit=E2=80=9D if that suits the = working group. We=E2=80=99re past the days of 3 letter extensions now, = right? Best Regards, Brendan On 24 Jun 2020, at 14:35, Dick Brooks > wrote: Are there plans for a standard file naming nomenclature to identify = software objects that contain a suit manifest? Today, I use the filename extension to drive an introspection procedure = to generate an SBOM and having a defined filename extension to indicate = that a suit manifest is present would help, otherwise I have to parse each file = to determine which SBOM introspection procedure to invoke. Thanks, Dick Brooks Never trust software, always verify and report! T http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com = =20 Tel: +1 978-696-1788 -----Original Message----- From: Suit > On = Behalf Of Waltermire, David A. (Fed) Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 9:30 AM To: R=C3=B8nningstad, =C3=98yvind >; suit > Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review =C3=98yvind, Thanks for this review! Dave -----Original Message----- From: Suit > On = Behalf Of R=C3=B8nningstad, =C3=98yvind Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 6:03 AM To: suit > Subject: [Suit] Manifest-07 review Hi guys, here is a review of manifest-07. Mostly small stuff. Questions: .... Section 6.4: What are the guidelines for extracting the vendor-id, class-id, device-id, or version of a component? .... Suit-condition-component-offset is used in an example, but marked = as TBD in its section. I see that it is described in 6.4 as "assert(offsetof(component) =3D=3D arg)". What are the semantics of = "offsetof"? .... Can suit-directive-process-dependency be done on a component, or = just on a dependency? Generally, there seems to be some mismatch between the description in 6.4 (which implies that most directives and conditions = only apply to a component index) and textual descriptions e.g. in 9.8.4.1 and 9.8.4.2 (which imply that directives and conditions apply to whichever = is available of component index and dependency index). .... (It would be very beneficial to make 6.4 "Abstract Machine = Description" more prominent, e.g. by linking from the individual section for = commands, since 6.4 contains very useful info about how the commands work, and = it's hard to discover otherwise.) .. What (if any) are the rules regarding = when to perform dependency-resolution, payload-fetch, and install, and when = to perform only validate, load, and run? .... suit-manifest-sequence-number: "Each Recipient MUST reject any = manifest that has a sequence number lower than its current sequence number." Are there several "current sequence number"s or just one for each SUIT processor. Exactly when is the "current sequence number" updated? .... What should the processor do when waiting on a suit-directive-wait? = Can it be interpreted as "try again later", or "busy wait"? .... There are important limitations to what sort of commands can be in suit-common. Could the limitations be reflected in the CDDL? It seems = like a natural thing to do, to make the limitations more prominent. .... When processing dependencies, how do we know when to a) expect a signature and b) check the signature on a dependency manifest? .... Did we mean for short payloads to be embeddable in the manifest (I = can't find this)? This would be very useful for setting configuration options = via SUIT manifests. .... Is the device-identifier unique for each individual device, or for = a collection of devices? .... Why are suit-directive-set-component-index and suit-directive-set-dependency-index not implemented through = set-parameters? Are they subject to the same override mechanics? If not, it might be confusing with suit-parameter-source-component, which seems to be = analogous to set-component-index, but might have subtly different behavior because = of override mechanics. Nits: .... Suit-directive-fetch: "manifest-index" is not referred to elsewhere = in the document. .... Section 7: Suggested edit in bold: "A digest should always be set = using Override Parameters, since this prevents a less-privileged dependent OR dependency from replacing the digest." .... suit-condition-update-authorized seems like it could use some = metadata to help determine what is being authorized, e.g. A human readable prompt = if user interaction is required, or an identifier if multiple instances of = the condition are used in a manifest. Thanks for the good work, =C3=98yvind _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org =20 https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.i= etf.o rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40ni= st..go v%7C909e99a025494e915e6008d81825e30f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7= C1% 7C0%7C637285898291416907&sdata=3DHww6iMALkbaHZQLb1VeYGCDfb7yrQGbpUbUa= %2FD5 u4Fo%3D&reserved=3D0 _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Suit mailing list Suit@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit =20 IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you.=20 ------=_NextPart_001_1D1B1_01D64A12.CC956D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I would = find it ideal, for my SAG-PM risk assessment logic, to have the suit = manifest digitally signed and to have that signed manifest contained in = a digitally signed software object so that the two are forever linked in = this =E2=80=9Cvirtual blockchain relationship=E2=80=9D.

 

 

From: Brendan Moran = <Brendan.Moran@arm.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 = 10:25 AM
To: Henk Birkholz = <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
Cc: Dick Brooks = <dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com>; suit <suit@ietf.org>; = Waltermire, David A. (Fed) = <david.waltermire=3D40nist.gov@dmarc.ietf.org>
Subject: = Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review

 

I=E2=80=99m = not certain what *we* are talking about. *I* am talking about = SUIT_Envelope or, to be more precise, SUIT_Envelope_Tagged (that is = #6.TBD(SUIT_Envelope)). I think that SUIT_Envelope_Tagged could have = a =E2=80=9C.suit=E2=80=9D file name extension. I think it=E2=80=99s = probably a bad idea to have SUIT_Manifest floating around on your system = without the envelope or a signature. Maybe you could add a COSE_Sign to = it. Then, you might want a =E2=80=9C.cose=E2=80=9D file name = extension.



Brendan



On 24 Jun 2020, at 14:48, Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunho= fer.de> wrote:

 

Are we talking about every "software object" = that starts with a CBOR tag as defined in this document?

I assume = that a manifest in the form of a file can be wrapped or not be wrapped = in a SUIT envelope. Would that result in the same file extension = ".suit"?

Viele Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe,

Henk

On = 24.06.20 15:42, Brendan Moran wrote:

The = intent is to register a CBOR tag that identifies the manifest envelope. = This allows detection of manifests by signature in the first 2-3 bytes. = A typical filename extension would be fine. I think the most suitable = suggestion would be =E2=80=9C.suit=E2=80=9D if that suits the working = group. We=E2=80=99re past the days of 3 letter extensions now, = right?
Best Regards,
Brendan

On = 24 Jun 2020, at 14:35, Dick Brooks <dick@reliableenergyanaly= tics.com> wrote:

Are there plans for a standard file = naming nomenclature to identify software
objects that contain a suit = manifest?

Today, I use the filename extension to drive an = introspection procedure to
generate an SBOM and having a defined = filename extension to indicate that a
suit manifest is present would = help, otherwise I have to parse each file to
determine which SBOM = introspection procedure to invoke.

Thanks,

Dick = Brooks

Never trust software, always verify and report! T
http://www.reliableenergy= analytics.com
Email: dick@reliableenergyanaly= tics.com
Tel: +1 978-696-1788

-----Original = Message-----
From: Suit <suit-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of Waltermire, David A. (Fed)
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 = 9:30 AM
To: R=C3=B8nningstad, =C3=98yvind <Oyvind.Ronningstad@nordi= csemi.no>; suit
<suit@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: = [Suit] Manifest-07 review

=C3=98yvind,

Thanks for this = review!

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Suit = <suit-bounces@ietf.org> On = Behalf Of R=C3=B8nningstad, =C3=98yvind
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, = 2020 6:03 AM
To: suit <suit@ietf.org>
Subject: [Suit] = Manifest-07 review

Hi guys, here is a review of manifest-07. = Mostly small stuff.

Questions:
.... Section 6.4: What are the = guidelines for extracting the vendor-id,
class-id, device-id, or = version of a component?
.... Suit-condition-component-offset is used = in an example, but marked as TBD
in its section. I see that it is = described in 6.4 as
"assert(offsetof(component) =3D=3D = arg)". What are the semantics of "offsetof"?
.... Can = suit-directive-process-dependency be done on a component, or just = on
a dependency? Generally, there seems to be some mismatch between = the
description in 6.4 (which implies that most directives and = conditions only
apply to a component index) and textual descriptions = e.g. in 9.8.4.1 and
9.8.4.2 (which imply that directives and = conditions apply to whichever is
available of component index and = dependency index).
.... (It would be very beneficial to make 6.4 = "Abstract Machine Description"
more prominent, e.g. by = linking from the individual section for commands,
since 6.4 contains = very useful info about how the commands work, and it's
hard to = discover otherwise.) .. What (if any) are the rules regarding when
to = perform dependency-resolution, payload-fetch, and install, and when = to
perform only validate, load, and run?
.... = suit-manifest-sequence-number: "Each Recipient MUST reject any = manifest
that has a sequence number lower than its current sequence = number." Are
there several "current sequence number"s = or just one for each SUIT
processor. Exactly when is the = "current sequence number" updated?
.... What should the = processor do when waiting on a suit-directive-wait? Can
it be = interpreted as "try again later", or "busy = wait"?
.... There are important limitations to what sort of = commands can be in
suit-common. Could the limitations be reflected in = the CDDL? It seems like a
natural thing to do, to make the = limitations more prominent.
.... When processing dependencies, how do = we know when to a) expect a
signature and b) check the signature on a = dependency manifest?
.... Did we mean for short payloads to be = embeddable in the manifest (I can't
find this)? This would be very = useful for setting configuration options via
SUIT manifests.
.... = Is the device-identifier unique for each individual device, or for = a
collection of devices?
.... Why are = suit-directive-set-component-index = and
suit-directive-set-dependency-index not implemented through = set-parameters?
Are they subject to the same override mechanics? If = not, it might be
confusing with suit-parameter-source-component, = which seems to be analogous
to set-component-index, but might have = subtly different behavior because of
override = mechanics.

Nits:
.... Suit-directive-fetch: = "manifest-index" is not referred to elsewhere in
the = document.
.... Section 7: Suggested edit in bold: "A digest = should always be set using
Override Parameters, since this prevents a = less-privileged dependent OR
dependency from replacing the = digest."
.... suit-condition-update-authorized seems like it = could use some metadata
to help determine what is being authorized, = e.g. A human readable prompt if
user interaction is required, or an = identifier if multiple instances of the
condition are used in a = manifest.


Thanks for the good = work,

=C3=98yvind

_________________________________________= ______
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp= s%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.o
rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&amp;data=3D= 02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40nist..go
v%7C909e99a025494e915e6008d81825= e30f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%
7C0%7C637285898291416907&= amp;amp;sdata=3DHww6iMALkbaHZQLb1VeYGCDfb7yrQGbpUbUa%2FD5
u4Fo%3D&= amp;reserved=3D0

_______________________________________________Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/suit

________________________________________= _______
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/suit

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any = attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not = the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not = disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or = store or copy the information in any medium. Thank = you.
_______________________________________________
Suit mailing = list
Suit@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/suit

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any = attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not = the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not = disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or = store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. =

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nobody Wed Jun 24 08:08:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16783A0ECC for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 08:08:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c30vbSrrCPZ0 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 08:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C8E53A0EC6 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 08:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A894E300B81 for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 11:08:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id RLCsNpdqQ7eC for ; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 11:08:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-72-66-113-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.113.56]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CFA6D3004AF; Wed, 24 Jun 2020 11:08:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0331ACF7-44CE-4423-9170-1BA86402AF30" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 11:08:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: Henk Birkholz , suit , Dick Brooks , "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" To: Brendan Moran References: <1cd0f01d64a2c$5e98ffb0$1bcaff10$@reliableenergyanalytics.com> <54E7F290-B43D-4D72-9E8C-DE1B7E74F03E@arm.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 15:08:12 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0331ACF7-44CE-4423-9170-1BA86402AF30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I was talking about the file extension for a signed manifest. Russ > On Jun 24, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Brendan Moran = wrote: >=20 > I=E2=80=99m not certain what *we* are talking about. *I* am talking = about SUIT_Envelope or, to be more precise, SUIT_Envelope_Tagged (that = is #6.TBD(SUIT_Envelope)). I think that SUIT_Envelope_Tagged could have = a =E2=80=9C.suit=E2=80=9D file name extension. I think it=E2=80=99s = probably a bad idea to have SUIT_Manifest floating around on your system = without the envelope or a signature. Maybe you could add a COSE_Sign to = it. Then, you might want a =E2=80=9C.cose=E2=80=9D file name extension. >=20 > Brendan >=20 >> On 24 Jun 2020, at 14:48, Henk Birkholz = > wrote: >>=20 >> Are we talking about every "software object" that starts with a CBOR = tag as defined in this document? >>=20 >> I assume that a manifest in the form of a file can be wrapped or not = be wrapped in a SUIT envelope. Would that result in the same file = extension ".suit"? >>=20 >> Viele Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, >>=20 >> Henk >>=20 >> On 24.06.20 15:42, Brendan Moran wrote: >>> The intent is to register a CBOR tag that identifies the manifest = envelope. This allows detection of manifests by signature in the first = 2-3 bytes. A typical filename extension would be fine. I think the most = suitable suggestion would be =E2=80=9C.suit=E2=80=9D if that suits the = working group. We=E2=80=99re past the days of 3 letter extensions now, = right? >>> Best Regards, >>> Brendan >>>> On 24 Jun 2020, at 14:35, Dick Brooks = > wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Are there plans for a standard file naming nomenclature to identify = software >>>> objects that contain a suit manifest? >>>>=20 >>>> Today, I use the filename extension to drive an introspection = procedure to >>>> generate an SBOM and having a defined filename extension to = indicate that a >>>> suit manifest is present would help, otherwise I have to parse each = file to >>>> determine which SBOM introspection procedure to invoke. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>>=20 >>>> Dick Brooks >>>>=20 >>>> Never trust software, always verify and report! T >>>> http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com = >>>> Email: dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com >>>> Tel: +1 978-696-1788 >>>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Suit On Behalf Of Waltermire, David = A. (Fed) >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 9:30 AM >>>> To: R=C3=B8nningstad, =C3=98yvind = ; suit >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review >>>>=20 >>>> =C3=98yvind, >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks for this review! >>>>=20 >>>> Dave >>>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Suit On Behalf Of R=C3=B8nningstad, = =C3=98yvind >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 6:03 AM >>>> To: suit >>>> Subject: [Suit] Manifest-07 review >>>>=20 >>>> Hi guys, here is a review of manifest-07. Mostly small stuff. >>>>=20 >>>> Questions: >>>> .... Section 6.4: What are the guidelines for extracting the = vendor-id, >>>> class-id, device-id, or version of a component? >>>> .... Suit-condition-component-offset is used in an example, but = marked as TBD >>>> in its section. I see that it is described in 6.4 as >>>> "assert(offsetof(component) =3D=3D arg)". What are the semantics of = "offsetof"? >>>> .... Can suit-directive-process-dependency be done on a component, = or just on >>>> a dependency? Generally, there seems to be some mismatch between = the >>>> description in 6.4 (which implies that most directives and = conditions only >>>> apply to a component index) and textual descriptions e.g. in = 9.8.4.1 and >>>> 9.8.4.2 (which imply that directives and conditions apply to = whichever is >>>> available of component index and dependency index). >>>> .... (It would be very beneficial to make 6.4 "Abstract Machine = Description" >>>> more prominent, e.g. by linking from the individual section for = commands, >>>> since 6.4 contains very useful info about how the commands work, = and it's >>>> hard to discover otherwise.) .. What (if any) are the rules = regarding when >>>> to perform dependency-resolution, payload-fetch, and install, and = when to >>>> perform only validate, load, and run? >>>> .... suit-manifest-sequence-number: "Each Recipient MUST reject any = manifest >>>> that has a sequence number lower than its current sequence number." = Are >>>> there several "current sequence number"s or just one for each SUIT >>>> processor. Exactly when is the "current sequence number" updated? >>>> .... What should the processor do when waiting on a = suit-directive-wait? Can >>>> it be interpreted as "try again later", or "busy wait"? >>>> .... There are important limitations to what sort of commands can = be in >>>> suit-common. Could the limitations be reflected in the CDDL? It = seems like a >>>> natural thing to do, to make the limitations more prominent. >>>> .... When processing dependencies, how do we know when to a) expect = a >>>> signature and b) check the signature on a dependency manifest? >>>> .... Did we mean for short payloads to be embeddable in the = manifest (I can't >>>> find this)? This would be very useful for setting configuration = options via >>>> SUIT manifests. >>>> .... Is the device-identifier unique for each individual device, or = for a >>>> collection of devices? >>>> .... Why are suit-directive-set-component-index and >>>> suit-directive-set-dependency-index not implemented through = set-parameters? >>>> Are they subject to the same override mechanics? If not, it might = be >>>> confusing with suit-parameter-source-component, which seems to be = analogous >>>> to set-component-index, but might have subtly different behavior = because of >>>> override mechanics. >>>>=20 >>>> Nits: >>>> .... Suit-directive-fetch: "manifest-index" is not referred to = elsewhere in >>>> the document. >>>> .... Section 7: Suggested edit in bold: "A digest should always be = set using >>>> Override Parameters, since this prevents a less-privileged = dependent OR >>>> dependency from replacing the digest." >>>> .... suit-condition-update-authorized seems like it could use some = metadata >>>> to help determine what is being authorized, e.g. A human readable = prompt if >>>> user interaction is required, or an identifier if multiple = instances of the >>>> condition are used in a manifest. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks for the good work, >>>>=20 >>>> =C3=98yvind >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Suit mailing list >>>> Suit@ietf.org >>>> = https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ie= tf.o >>>> = rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40nis= t..go >>>> = v%7C909e99a025494e915e6008d81825e30f%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C= 1% >>>> = 7C0%7C637285898291416907&sdata=3DHww6iMALkbaHZQLb1VeYGCDfb7yrQGbpUbUa%= 2FD5 >>>> u4Fo%3D&reserved=3D0 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Suit mailing list >>>> Suit@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Suit mailing list >>>> Suit@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit >>> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Suit mailing list >>> Suit@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit >=20 > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit --Apple-Mail=_0331ACF7-44CE-4423-9170-1BA86402AF30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I = was talking about the file extension for a signed manifest.

Russ


On Jun 24, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Brendan Moran = <Brendan.Moran@arm.com> wrote:

I=E2=80=99m not certain what *we* are talking about. *I* am talking = about SUIT_Envelope or, to be more precise, SUIT_Envelope_Tagged (that = is #6.TBD(SUIT_Envelope)). I think that SUIT_Envelope_Tagged could have a =E2=80=9C.suit=E2=80=9D = file name extension. I think it=E2=80=99s probably a bad idea to have SUIT_Manifest floating = around on your system without the envelope or a signature. Maybe you = could add a COSE_Sign to it. Then, you might want a =E2=80=9C.cose=E2= =80=9D file name extension.

Brendan

On 24 Jun 2020, at 14:48, Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de> wrote:

Are we talking about every "software object" that starts = with a CBOR tag as defined in this document?

I assume that a manifest in the form of a file can be wrapped or not be = wrapped in a SUIT envelope. Would that result in the same file extension = ".suit"?

Viele Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe,

Henk

On 24.06.20 15:42, Brendan Moran wrote:
The intent is to register a CBOR = tag that identifies the manifest envelope. This allows detection of = manifests by signature in the first 2-3 bytes. A typical filename = extension would be fine. I think the most suitable suggestion would be =E2=80=9C.suit=E2=80=9D if that suits the working group. = We=E2=80=99re past the days of 3 letter extensions now, right?
Best Regards,
Brendan
On 24 Jun 2020, at 14:35, Dick = Brooks <dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com> wrote:

Are there plans for a standard file naming nomenclature to identify = software
objects that contain a suit manifest?

Today, I use the filename extension to drive an introspection procedure = to
generate an SBOM and having a defined filename extension to indicate = that a
suit manifest is present would help, otherwise I have to parse each file = to
determine which SBOM introspection procedure to invoke.

Thanks,

Dick Brooks

Never trust software, always verify and report! T
http://www.reliableenergyanalytics.com
Email: = dick@reliableenergyanalytics.com
Tel: +1 978-696-1788

-----Original Message-----
From: Suit <suit-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Waltermire, David = A. (Fed)
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 9:30 AM
To: R=C3=B8nningstad, =C3=98yvind <Oyvind.Ronningstad@nordicsemi.no>; suit
<suit@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Suit] Manifest-07 review

=C3=98yvind,

Thanks for this review!

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Suit <suit-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of R=C3=B8nningstad, = =C3=98yvind
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2020 6:03 AM
To: suit <suit@ietf.org>
Subject: [Suit] Manifest-07 review

Hi guys, here is a review of manifest-07. Mostly small stuff.

Questions:
.... Section 6.4: What are the guidelines for extracting the = vendor-id,
class-id, device-id, or version of a component?
.... Suit-condition-component-offset is used in an example, but marked = as TBD
in its section. I see that it is described in 6.4 as
"assert(offsetof(component) =3D=3D arg)". What are the semantics of = "offsetof"?
.... Can suit-directive-process-dependency be done on a component, or = just on
a dependency? Generally, there seems to be some mismatch between the
description in 6.4 (which implies that most directives and conditions = only
apply to a component index) and textual descriptions e.g. in 9.8.4.1 = and
9.8.4.2 (which imply that directives and conditions apply to whichever = is
available of component index and dependency index).
.... (It would be very beneficial to make 6.4 "Abstract Machine = Description"
more prominent, e.g. by linking from the individual section for = commands,
since 6.4 contains very useful info about how the commands work, and = it's
hard to discover otherwise.) .. What (if any) are the rules regarding = when
to perform dependency-resolution, payload-fetch, and install, and when = to
perform only validate, load, and run?
.... suit-manifest-sequence-number: "Each Recipient MUST reject any = manifest
that has a sequence number lower than its current sequence number." = Are
there several "current sequence number"s or just one for each SUIT
processor. Exactly when is the "current sequence number" updated?
.... What should the processor do when waiting on a suit-directive-wait? = Can
it be interpreted as "try again later", or "busy wait"?
.... There are important limitations to what sort of commands can be = in
suit-common. Could the limitations be reflected in the CDDL? It seems = like a
natural thing to do, to make the limitations more prominent.
.... When processing dependencies, how do we know when to a) expect a
signature and b) check the signature on a dependency manifest?
.... Did we mean for short payloads to be embeddable in the manifest (I = can't
find this)? This would be very useful for setting configuration options = via
SUIT manifests.
.... Is the device-identifier unique for each individual device, or for = a
collection of devices?
.... Why are suit-directive-set-component-index and
suit-directive-set-dependency-index not implemented through = set-parameters?
Are they subject to the same override mechanics? If not, it might be
confusing with suit-parameter-source-component, which seems to be = analogous
to set-component-index, but might have subtly different behavior because = of
override mechanics.

Nits:
.... Suit-directive-fetch: "manifest-index" is not referred to elsewhere = in
the document.
.... Section 7: Suggested edit in bold: "A digest should always be set = using
Override Parameters, since this prevents a less-privileged dependent = OR
dependency from replacing the digest."
.... suit-condition-update-authorized seems like it could use some = metadata
to help determine what is being authorized, e.g. A human readable prompt = if
user interaction is required, or an identifier if multiple instances of = the
condition are used in a manifest.


Thanks for the good work,

=C3=98yvind

_______________________________________________
Suit mailing list
Suit@ietf.org
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= --Apple-Mail=_0331ACF7-44CE-4423-9170-1BA86402AF30-- From nobody Sat Jun 27 01:30:32 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E3DB3A07CB; Sat, 27 Jun 2020 01:30:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pymnh01bM-sF; Sat, 27 Jun 2020 01:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 305543A07C6; Sat, 27 Jun 2020 01:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.116] (p5089ae91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.174.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49v5F273KjzyXW; Sat, 27 Jun 2020 09:37:26 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 614936246.760429-e878f76976a86e074d77e63a5ef9909c Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Message-Id: <77085D5E-EC1C-4285-A880-1EC02A73FF0F@tzi.org> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2020 09:37:26 +0200 To: suit@ietf.org, teep@ietf.org, din@irtf.org, rats@ietf.org, lake@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] [Ace] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF108: DRAFT AGENDA X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2020 08:30:23 -0000 Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the DRAFT AGENDA for IETF108. Remember that there is still quite some potential for changes. Conflicts that meet the eye: LAKE/SUIT (!). ACE/RATS. (I think 6LO/COSE can be ignored.) HACKATHON is on top of CORE, but I don't know what that slot on Friday is supposed to be. All times appear to be in UTC, even though nothing says so; https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc gives the same times. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten MONDAY, July 27, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 1 ART dispatch Dispatch WG Rm 5 IRTF pearg Privacy Enhancements and Assessments = Research Group Rm 2 SEC *** teep Trusted Execution Environment = Provisioning WG 1300-1350 Session II Rm 4 ART *** cbor Concise Binary Object Representation = Maintenance and Extensions WG Rm 6 INT intarea Internet Area Working Group WG Rm 2 RTG babel Babel routing protocol WG Rm 5 RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG 1410-1550 Session III Rm 5 ART webtrans WebTransport WG Rm 4 IRTF qirg Quantum Internet Research Group Rm 2 SEC gnap Grant Negotiation and Authorization = Protocol WG TUESDAY, July 28, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 1 ART *** asdf A Semantic Definition Format for Data = and Interactions of Things BOF Rm 2 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Rm 3 IRTF irtfopen IRTF Open Meeting Rm 8 TSV masque Multiplexed Application Substrate over = QUIC Encryption WG 1300-1350 Session II Rm 4 SEC mls Messaging Layer Security WG Rm 3 SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG 1410-1550 Session III Rm 4 SEC *** lake Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange = WG Rm 3 SEC *** suit Software Updates for Internet of Things = WG Rm 2 TSV loops Local Optimizations on Path Segments BOF WEDNESDAY, July 29, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 5 RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Rm 4 SEC *** ace Authentication and Authorization for = Constrained Environments WG Rm 3 SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG Rm 2 TSV quic QUIC WG 1300-1350 Session II Rm 6 ART webtrans WebTransport WG Rm 2 INT *** 6lo IPv6 over Networks of = Resource-constrained Nodes WG Rm 4 RTG rift Routing In Fat Trees WG Rm 5 SEC *** cose CBOR Object Signing and Encryption WG Rm 1 TSV tsvarea Transport Area Open Meeting THURSDAY, July 30, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 6 OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model = and Approach WG Rm 4 RTG raw Reliable and Available Wireless WG Rm 5 SEC secdispatch Security Dispatch WG Rm 2 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 1300-1350 Session II Rm 3 INT *** lpwan IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks = WG Rm 2 SEC saag Security Area Open Meeting 1410-1550 Session III Rm 6 INT add Adaptive DNS Discovery WG Rm 7 INT *** drip Drone Remote ID Protocol WG Rm 4 SEC acme Automated Certificate Management = Environment WG FRIDAY, July 31, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 8 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Rm 6 GEN hackathon Hackathon Rm 2 SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Rm 1 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 1300-1350 Session II Rm 3 ART wpack Web Packaging WG Rm 4 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Rm 6 SEC emu EAP Method Update WG 1410-1550 Session III Rm 1 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Rm 7 IRTF coinrg Computing in the Network Research Group Rm 3 SEC privacypass Privacy Pass WG _______________________________________________ Ace mailing list Ace@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace From nobody Tue Jun 30 03:36:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: 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