From nobody Thu Jul 2 17:22:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 620A53A09A9; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 17:20:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: rdd@cert.org, suit@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.7.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <159373563438.30173.17257762793507431003@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2020 17:20:34 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] suit - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 108 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 00:20:44 -0000 Dear Russ Housley, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. suit Session 1 (1:40 requested) Friday, 31 July 2020, Session I 1100-1240 Room Name: Room 6 size: 6 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/108/sessions/suit.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Software Updates for Internet of Things Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Russ Housley Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 100 Minutes Number of Attendees: 80 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: ipwave lamps stir teep ipsecme mile rats sacm Key Participant Conflict: oauth secdispatch saag tls mls acme cfrg ace People who must be present: Russ Housley Dave Thaler Roman Danyliw Hannes Tschofenig David Waltermire Henk Birkholz Brendan Moran Milosch Meriac David Brown Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Jul 2 23:00:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A00F3A052C; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 23:00:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jFBFRtKDg1mz; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 23:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1ED143A0D12; Thu, 2 Jul 2020 23:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.42.112] (p5089ae91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.174.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49yk6Q3JsqzyTZ; Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:29:18 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 615446958.354246-561ce5a163472f83e03dc0abcde6b9d0 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Message-Id: <94B927FA-0F6F-4F82-877E-9C115B045A79@tzi.org> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 07:29:18 +0200 To: suit@ietf.org, teep@ietf.org, din@irtf.org, rats@ietf.org, lake@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF108: FINAL AGENDA X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2020 06:00:17 -0000 Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the FINAL AGENDA for IETF108. Remember that, occasionally, further agenda changes do happen. There has been no change from the DRAFT AGENDA in the Conflicts I noted: LAKE/SUIT (!). ACE/RATS. (I think 6LO/COSE can be ignored.) The only significant change is that LAKE/SUIT/LOOPS has been exchanged with CORE/TLS/TSVWG (Tuesday 1410Z vs. Friday 1100Z). Also, the mysterious HACKATHON has vanished. All times appear to be in UTC, even though nothing says so in the text agenda; https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc gives the same times. This time, I have focused on the events in Week 31; please see the original agenda for Week 30 preliminaries. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten MONDAY, July 27, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 1 ART dispatch Dispatch WG - Joint with ARTAREA Rm 2 IRTF pearg Privacy Enhancements and Assessments Research = Group Rm 5 SEC *** teep Trusted Execution Environment Provisioning WG 1300-1350 Session II Rm 2 ART *** cbor Concise Binary Object Representation Maintenance = and Extensions WG Rm 3 INT intarea Internet Area Working Group WG Rm 6 RTG babel Babel routing protocol WG Rm 7 RTG detnet Deterministic Networking WG 1410-1550 Session III Rm 1 ART webtrans WebTransport WG Rm 3 IRTF qirg Quantum Internet Research Group Rm 7 SEC gnap Grant Negotiation and Authorization Protocol WG TUESDAY, July 28, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 1 ART *** asdf A Semantic Definition Format for Data and = Interactions of Things BOF Rm 2 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Rm 3 IRTF irtfopen IRTF Open Meeting Rm 8 TSV masque Multiplexed Application Substrate over QUIC = Encryption WG 1300-1350 Session II Rm 7 SEC mls Messaging Layer Security WG Rm 8 SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG 1410-1550 Session III Rm 1 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Rm 6 SEC tls Transport Layer Security WG Rm 7 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG WEDNESDAY, July 29, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 4 RTG bier Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG Rm 5 SEC *** ace Authentication and Authorization for Constrained = Environments WG Rm 6 SEC *** rats Remote ATtestation ProcedureS WG Rm 7 TSV quic QUIC WG 1300-1350 Session II Rm 1 INT *** 6lo IPv6 over Networks of Resource-constrained Nodes = WG Rm 4 RTG rift Routing In Fat Trees WG Rm 5 SEC *** cose CBOR Object Signing and Encryption WG Rm 6 TSV tsvarea Transport Area Open Meeting 1410-1550 IETF Plenary - Plenary THURSDAY, July 30, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 3 OPS anima Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and = Approach WG Rm 4 RTG raw Reliable and Available Wireless WG Rm 5 SEC secdispatch Security Dispatch WG Rm 6 TSV tsvwg Transport Area Working Group WG 1300-1350 Session II Rm 4 INT *** lpwan IPv6 over Low Power Wide-Area Networks WG Rm 7 SEC saag Security Area Open Meeting 1410-1550 Session III Rm 2 INT add Adaptive DNS Discovery WG Rm 3 INT *** drip Drone Remote ID Protocol WG Rm 6 SEC acme Automated Certificate Management Environment WG FRIDAY, July 31, 2020 1100-1240 Session I Rm 5 SEC *** lake Lightweight Authenticated Key Exchange WG Rm 6 SEC *** suit Software Updates for Internet of Things WG Rm 7 TSV loops Local Optimizations on Path Segments BOF 1300-1350 Session II Rm 3 ART wpack Web Packaging WG Rm 4 INT 6man IPv6 Maintenance WG Rm 6 SEC emu EAP Method Update WG 1410-1550 Session III Rm 1 ART *** core Constrained RESTful Environments WG Rm 4 IRTF coinrg Computing in the Network Research Group Rm 7 SEC privacypass Privacy Pass WG From nobody Wed Jul 8 06:33:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 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([82.197.204.96]) by mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 08 Jul 2020 15:32:59 +0200 From: Koen Zandberg To: suit References: Autocrypt: addr=koen.zandberg@inria.fr; keydata= mQINBFfiUE0BEAC2GQfspM4LKuFBsuBVG5f8iKIg3SQIeyK5tG+fHrLYIt+qXIrya1rxX4MQ iGtJmG0F+iVOAZZXLvT3nd1L7jIvT83fUULRKsxGeq8swHhHRdtyiSNDCdpY3Z0PmF6nyoEV kevB5FHQPLWZIMdvX324ihJ1qN34yIBBy+Q2rk2FP8Dn0PDHcCwiY9PCzurpNDcEjQ2EdsO2 pFAUy8m04A0H9pH3Up/o6xhsQsbt4Q9U1YuGJiUpMXXBq+6hufafRtRjPIypr4LCYAVaKsds R5GxLcFrNXiMxDf3tVTrF2PebXhepamDbG7ujpiYZ5x8fKEFvrUJSM2Qz+agf0JqsueXowy7 nwNrcn9ygShydizAZ34OSphGCxnmJ6j6aTp/bo77GXJnvT3hACYHX7vmTg6ODII9pLQCYda4 ML2rL6u06oLnvyoC2Q7RQKgfMSDgA3Vx+yeWI4IoxmtNXjnFvrfGCIY347rhjBrQL4Za1xuL uw0YggCCIH1Qp6z+MNXcIuHEeS5HJJsUQlN6OfBwCWI2hfToilo+/7xv4sIc6+aknLhmE3H2 FuDYFh3Z7TUoLL3K/Jcx3ndmsajh3UNsnYPxiOLkFIKJgDfQg+Xi7eqVSaBslSPNjsw78lNc qkCSOZXuDfd7h4cuvn6m+VdFz2yRLoOhZPxc2jBd9QxSsXBIqwARAQABtC5Lb2VuIFphbmRi 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protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lNAlRuC6J8VcJnQ2C1TzunonTi8wwKCxg" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Some proposals for updates to the SUIT manifest specification X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2020 13:33:04 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --lNAlRuC6J8VcJnQ2C1TzunonTi8wwKCxg Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Ua5q7HWLClqQoxp6QnW7qloQMvNcE3pc1" --Ua5q7HWLClqQoxp6QnW7qloQMvNcE3pc1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Here are some of the promised numbers. The numbers here are the flash space occupied in the binary for a SAM R21 Xplained Pro (Cortex-M0+) with -Os,=C2=A0 assertions and logging disa= bled and without link-time optimization. The application is the suit update example[1] provided by RIOT and updated to draft-ietf-suit-manifest-07 Version,=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 CBOR,=C2=A0=C2= =A0 COSE,=C2=A0 SUIT,=C2=A0=C2=A0 Total image suit-manifest-07,=C2=A0 1100 B, 900 B, 1933 B, 73915 B suit-manifest-03,=C2=A0 1100 B, 900 B, 2068 B, 74083 B Note that the total image is the full image size and includes more than the sum of the mentioned sub components and is provided here to put the numbers in perspective. The takeaway message here is that the numbers didn't change much the last few iterations which I consider a good thing.= I've also took a closer look at the bstr wrapping and where they improve the manifest parsing, see inline below. In most cases it boils down to whether the object might potentially >>>> My opinion on each of the bstrs is: >>>> >>>> 1) We must keep the bstr wrappers around all envelope elements. >> Yes please, this is one of the few places where they really help. After another look I believe it is okay to remove the bstr wrapping around the SUIT_Authentication_Wrapper. Parsing or skipping is easy enough as long as the individual SUIT_Authentication_Block's are bstr wrapped. >>>> 3) I=E2=80=99m not entirely sure we should keep the bstr wrapper aro= und the >>>> common block, but I think it=E2=80=99s useful. It always lives withi= n the >>>> extent of the current manifest, so overruns will be detected on the >>>> first pass by the parser, and the extent of the common block can be >>>> recorded prior to the execution of any command sequences. I can live without this being wrapped I think. In my case the full common block is always parsed and there is no situation where it should be skipped for later parsing. >>>> 4) I would not argue against removing the bstr wrappers around >>>> command sequences, provided that we register a tag for either the >>>> command sequence or the SUIT Digest. > > I think the other option is that we could use separate keys for digest > and for command sequence. What I don=E2=80=99t like about that option i= s that > it=E2=80=99s not clear what a device should do if both are present and = one of > the goals of this specification is to eliminate that kind of > uncertainty. That being the case, I think I would want a SUIT_Digest > tag or a SUIT_Command_Sequence tag. Probably a Command Sequence tag, > since that would make the manifest smaller when including digests. I don't really see the point in swapping a bstr wrapper for a tag, depending on the tag value and the bstr length, this might save a byte. Anything I'm missing here that would make this beneficial? >>>> 5) I think we could safely remove the bstr wrappers around the >>>> elements inside of the common block, including the command >>>> sequence. This incurs a negligible execution time overhead when >>>> accessing some common elements, but produces manifests that are a >>>> few bytes smaller. I strongly prefer to keep the bstr wrappers around the SUIT_Command_Sequence when used as argument for the suit-directive-run-sequence and the suit-directive-try-each. Especially in the case of the suit-directive-try-each, the full SUIT_Command_Sequence must be skipped if a condition inside the sequence fails. This is significantly easier on the parser if it is bstr wrapped. Cheers, Koen [1]: https://github.com/bergzand/RIOT/tree/pr/suit/ietf_v7/examples/suit_updat= e --Ua5q7HWLClqQoxp6QnW7qloQMvNcE3pc1-- --lNAlRuC6J8VcJnQ2C1TzunonTi8wwKCxg Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEM1a0jNDzUUT3pcy6CJWok+bSmFsFAl8FywoACgkQCJWok+bS mFuXHQ//QGvQFP4RqOwDXGXGS0u28WZnaluNz2+Ur0nhEsU/kNFlq3ykH+drrguS IEP8T+CKAgE+eHgaHCc+E00FAtgSrumwpjiELmroolAvYVV1LapJGaweriaKoXCu 2W847n9OoWP360Uc6lAIdVpnANkdcogmPgsQF72zzISNfsCn1L9HWBeURtQmrugi a/6bnxwBQ6GNeE11Tz0SPqsQFeYGQQ4P8ytC6SQEisYRzNmkyhKWTziN8XoxBj/Z MqQxFJFonkDgjDeQfWbytUMda/bdieTiZD1uRthfi8JYjo3DTfJatOUuQXpjb1Jj zQ68j0+FA1ds3mb885yNnBpjAZVhp8c4dzoZMLWfon/MD9yA5kevipk211n9rBBu TmRIwfcrNJuPi9wOyjXr1z1LQgMpEU/hwxxtBdmzuS6gKU4X9JCKkk/Faa8v7QJm Z5rf5Vo5ne+IdIfM/6BJvmqfca5+cfyzorcrC0TjnVXsAck3xROkfuIAF3SQV68Y CVAeQmyEpvIEv4RCVqkCCgQnYUOPQPPNK2/zvufnjJJAjat4yEpxJ+IN6p8jeGtY ADq56O1TAuCHyfq7OhJq5aqcz35erg+yIPg+rd7GUSTq/Z2rAaGhSndUsRfIJ5s3 VLs5oec2hAL09igxR/9ku61IrxyY+0wTP3Fj/V5nmKMbc+jQXio= =DTOl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --lNAlRuC6J8VcJnQ2C1TzunonTi8wwKCxg-- From nobody Wed Jul 8 11:44:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB7DB3A0795 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 2020 11:44:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2NQWz178TdFw for ; Wed, 8 Jul 2020 11:44:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53EDE3A0794 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 2020 11:44:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0111C300B1A for ; Wed, 8 Jul 2020 14:44:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id nCMbEFRTOuZA for ; Wed, 8 Jul 2020 14:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-72-66-113-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.113.56]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 435B1300464 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 2020 14:44:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2020 14:44:52 -0400 To: suit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] DRAFT SUIT Agenda X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2020 18:44:57 -0000 Please review and comment. Russ = = = = = = SUIT Working Group at Virtual IETF 108 Agenda ------ 1) Logistics - Agenda Bashing - Minute Taker - Jabber Scribe - Bluesheets 2) Developers Gatherings - Report from SUIT Hackathon on 13 July 2020 3) SUIT Architecture - draft-ietf-suit-architecture - Submitted to IESG for Publication 4) SUIT Information Model - draft-ietf-suit-information-model - Submitted to IESG for Publication 5) SUIT Manifest Format - draft-ietf-suit-manifest - Active WG Document 6) Any Other Business (if time permits) Jabber: xmpp:suit@jabber.ietf.org?join MeetEcho: https://www.meetecho.com/ietf108/suit Etherpad: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-108-suit# From nobody Wed Jul 8 11:55:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9C763A0063 for ; Wed, 8 Jul 2020 11:55:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.7.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <159423451287.30459.8550170955724699964@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2020 11:55:12 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Milestones changed for suit WG X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2020 18:55:13 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit manifest information model to the IESG for publication as Informational.", resolved as "Done". URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/suit/about/ From nobody Mon Jul 13 00:53:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3C953A0A24; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 00:53:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: suit@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.8.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: suit@ietf.org Message-ID: <159462682582.20854.13051414345981804409@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 00:53:45 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-08.txt X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 07:53:46 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Software Updates for Internet of Things WG of the IETF. Title : A Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR)-based Serialization Format for the Software Updates for Internet of Things (SUIT) Manifest Authors : Brendan Moran Hannes Tschofenig Henk Birkholz Koen Zandberg Filename : draft-ietf-suit-manifest-08.txt Pages : 108 Date : 2020-07-13 Abstract: This specification describes the format of a manifest. A manifest is a bundle of metadata about the firmware for an IoT device, where to find the firmware, the devices to which it applies, and cryptographic information protecting the manifest. Firmware updates and secure boot both tend to use sequences of common operations, so the manifest encodes those sequences of operations, rather than declaring the metadata. The manifest also serves as a building block for secure boot. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-manifest/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-suit-manifest-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 13 02:37:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C4C33A0CF0; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 02:37:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=qqoKaBJp; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=qqoKaBJp Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lnuv8_J1xwP3; 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Ip=[63.35.35.123]; Helo=[64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB5EUR03FT035.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM6PR08MB2967 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] [Secdispatch] Call for agenda items Secdispatch IETF108 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 09:37:52 -0000 I would like to address draft-moran-suit-mud-00 in Secdispatch at IETF108. Draft location: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moran-suit-mud/ Prior discussion: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/suit/z0pU6ERSH1sapk= 15UM0fAGeoEvY/ Discussion of other work in the area: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html= /draft-richardson-opsawg-mud-acceptable-urls-00 This draft was raised with suit, since it would involve an extension to dra= ft-ietf-suit-manifest, however the suit chairs suggested that it should go = to Secdispatch before being sent to suit. This draft would be pursued by me and Hannes Tschofenig, but there may be o= ther authors who wish to contribute as well. I would like to see this draft sent to a working group for consideration fo= r adoption. Discussion should be reasonably short. I expect to give a 2-3 minute briefi= ng on the draft. Best Regards, Brendan IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid= ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p= lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any= other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in = any medium. Thank you. From nobody Mon Jul 13 12:56:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A30173A0769; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:56:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: suit@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.8.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: suit@ietf.org Message-ID: <159467019863.20849.8131775269196387312@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 12:56:38 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] I-D Action: draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09.txt X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 19:56:39 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Software Updates for Internet of Things WG of the IETF. Title : A Concise Binary Object Representation (CBOR)-based Serialization Format for the Software Updates for Internet of Things (SUIT) Manifest Authors : Brendan Moran Hannes Tschofenig Henk Birkholz Koen Zandberg Filename : draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09.txt Pages : 109 Date : 2020-07-13 Abstract: This specification describes the format of a manifest. A manifest is a bundle of metadata about the firmware for an IoT device, where to find the firmware, the devices to which it applies, and cryptographic information protecting the manifest. Firmware updates and secure boot both tend to use sequences of common operations, so the manifest encodes those sequences of operations, rather than declaring the metadata. The manifest also serves as a building block for secure boot. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-manifest/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jul 23 15:37:49 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E3463A046A for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:37:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=microsoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vq-TSwQXw2k9 for ; Thu, 23 Jul 2020 15:37:46 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Received: from MORRIS.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([fe80::555b:9498:552e:d1bb]) by MORRIS.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([fe80::555b:9498:552e:d1bb%13]) with mapi id 15.01.1979.003; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 17:53:55 -0400 From: Roman Danyliw To: suit Thread-Topic: AD Review of draft-ietf-suit-architecture-11 Thread-Index: AdZiA6g9Hqm5NGWtSGe2uyi38ZWIyw== Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 21:53:55 +0000 Message-ID: <81b43f1fd1b940e88d0a1ede4072b399@cert.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.64.202.156] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] AD Review of draft-ietf-suit-architecture-11 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 21:54:01 -0000 Hi! I performed an AD review of draft-ietf-suit-architecture-11. I have a few = editorial comments and some places where additional clarity would be helpfu= l. These can be handle in parallel to the IETF LC. ** Abstract. "... a solid and secure firmware update mechanism ...", "soli= d" seems imprecise? ** Abstract. Typo. s/Incorporating such update mechanism/Incorporating such= an update mechanism/ ** Abstract. "Incorporating such [an] update mechanism ... is recommended = by security experts", is there a reference for those experts. Obviously it= can'' be cited in the abstract, but I was expecting this claim to be backe= d somewhere in the subsequent text. Is it perhaps the [RFC8240]? ** Section 1. "When developing Internet Of Things (IoT) devices, one of th= e most difficult problems to solve ...", I don't disagree. Is there a refe= rence that can be used to back this claim? ** Section 1. Editorial. s/into used software libraries/into the software = libraries used/=20 ** Section 1. Editorial. Per "[t]his version of the document assumes ... F= uture versions ...", this language confused me a bit. It seems to me that = this document specifies some particular assumptions. However, an updated s= pecification might say something else. Practically, there isn't going to b= e a "future version of _this_ document".=20 ** Section 2. Typo. s/the the/the/ ** Section 2. Typo. s/succesfully/successfully/ ** Section 2. Typo. s/interchangably/interchangeably/ ** Section 2. Per the definition of the status tracker, it would be helpfu= l to also note the diversity of options on who operates it, in addition to = the deployment models. The operator could be the author, device owner, or = even a third party. ** Section 3.3. Per "For confidentiality protection of the firmware image, = it must be done in such a way that every intended recipient can decrypt it"= , is there a missing (very obvious) qualifier to add - "... and no one else= ". =20 ** Section 3.3. Per "Due to the nature of unchangeable code in ROM ... the= use of post-quantum secure signature mechanisms ...are attractive", what i= s one to do with this (correct) observation. It doesn't seem aligned with = the style/framing of the other text/requirements - i.e., what does "attract= ive" mean? ** Section 3.3. Typo. s/[I-D.ietf-suit-manifest]}/ [I-D.ietf-suit-manifest]= / ** Section 3.5. Per "A power failure at any time must not cause a failure = of the device", this seems to be specifying things outside the scope of the= update mechanism. ** Section 3.5. Per "One way to achieve this functionality ...", no disagr= eement, but this seems to veer into how to satisfy the requirement rather t= han articulating it (which is what this section seems to be about) ** Section 3.7. Per "Since parsers are known sources of bugs they must be = minimal", "minimal" how? How do I know I have a "small parser"? To give a= n ridiculous example, I could strip out all error handling from my parser t= o make it's binary footprint be small? I'm not thinking this needs to be = precisely defined, but are we talking about complexity? Including only the = bare necessary features? Possible to implement without a lot of external li= brary dependencies? ** Section 3.7. Per "Additionally, it must be easy to parse only those fie= lds that are required to validate at least one signature or MAC with minima= l exposure", what is "minimal exposure" in this context? =20 ** Section 3.9. This section didn't read like a requirement. It reads lik= e a statement of what the architecture is. ** Section 3.10. This section didn't read like a requirement. It reads li= ke a statement of what the architecture is. ** Section 3.11. Per "Later it turns out that other use cases may benefit = from a standardized manifest format also for conveying software and even = personalization data alongside software.", I'm confused about the distinct= ions between made here. -- "... may benefit from a standardized manifest format also for conveying= software ...", right, what's new use case? All along "software" or "firmw= are" (interchangeable words per Section 2) have been the focus. What's dif= ferent about the software here? -- why is "... personalization data" special? Section 1 already noted that= "configuration data" is part of the software? Is it that there is some ki= nd of additional user interaction? ** Section 3.11. Editorial. s/format also for/format for also/ ** Section 5. Per "For confidentiality protection of firmware images the a= uthor needs to be in possession of the certificate/public key or a pre-shar= ed key of a device", no issues with this guidance. However, Section 1 note= s that PSK wouldn't be discussed (i.e., Section 1 =3D "This version of the = document assumes asymmetric cryptography and a public key infrastructure. = Future versions may also describe a symmetric key approach for very constra= ined devices.") ** Section 5. The narrative for Figure 4 doesn't seem complete. For examp= le, it doesn't explain the sequencing of the manifest vs. firmware delivery= , or the role of the status tracker. ** Section 8. Per "Hence, the following building blocks are necessary for = a firmware update solution: ...", I read the bullet as these are "must have= s" for the device. However, I thought that integration with the device man= agement server per the operating model requirement in Section 3.10 was only= applicable to server-initiated and hybrid? Do I need the device managemen= t server in system that only supports client-initiated operation? ** Section 8. Per "... ability to access security algorithms, such as SHA-= 256, to compute a fingerprint over the firmware image and a digital signatu= re algorithm ",=20 -- would it be worthwhile to drop the reference to SHA-256 to make the text= more generic? -- would it be more accurate to say: "... ability to use a cryptographic li= brary or API to compute a fingerprint and verify the digital signature of t= he firmware image"=20 ** Figure 5. Typo. In Title. s/Upate/Update/ ** Section 9. Editorial. OLD Figure 6 shows an example follow with the device using a status tracker. =20 NEW Figure 6 illustrates an example where a device using a status tracker. ** Section 9. Per "At a later point in time the author uploads a new firmw= are along with the manifest to the ... the status tracker ...", given that = there are multiple ways in which the status tracker could learn about these= updates beyond the author explicitly uploading it (and that this is the on= ly example with the status tracker), it might be helpful to clarify the oth= er possibilities too. ** Section 11. This section makes a robust list of what is important, but = out of scope. Such a list is helpful. I think what would also be helpful = to restate the requirements for the security properties of this architectur= e, even if this is done by reference to text in Section 3. I'd recommend s= aying something like: -- No reliance on link, network or transport layer security properties (Sec= tion 3.2) -- Authentication of the identity of the manifest and firmware image author= (Section 3.3) -- End-to-end integrity of the manifest between the author and device (Sect= ion 3.3) -- End-to-end integrity of the firmware image between the author and the de= vice (Section 3.3)=20 -- to include confidentiality, integrity and authentication -- Rollback protection for the device (Section 3.4) -- Support for expressive authorization permissions (Section 3.9) Regards, Roman From nobody Fri Jul 24 15:31:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietf.org Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 040293A09B9; Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:30:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.10.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: draft-ietf-suit-architecture@ietf.org, housley@vigilsec.com, rdd@cert.org, suit-chairs@ietf.org, Russ Housley , suit@ietf.org Reply-To: last-call@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <159562985799.11606.7118461420663229421@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 15:30:58 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Last Call: (A Firmware Update Architecture for Internet of Things) to Informational RFC X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 22:30:58 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Software Updates for Internet of Things WG (suit) to consider the following document: - 'A Firmware Update Architecture for Internet of Things' as Informational RFC The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2020-08-14. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract Vulnerabilities with Internet of Things (IoT) devices have raised the need for a solid and secure firmware update mechanism that is also suitable for constrained devices. Incorporating such update mechanism to fix vulnerabilities, to update configuration settings as well as adding new functionality is recommended by security experts. This document lists requirements and describes an architecture for a firmware update mechanism suitable for IoT devices. The architecture is agnostic to the transport of the firmware images and associated meta-data. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-suit-architecture/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. 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Fri, 24 Jul 2020 22:51:15 +0000 From: Dave Thaler To: suit Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 Thread-Index: AdZiCUkrB1qNrZ3lS5i4ApAjr2sBOQ== Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 22:51:15 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SetDate=2020-07-24T22:51:14Z; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Name=Internal; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SiteId=72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_ActionId=a69722e0-1ed6-4784-8819-6ce0a71a5958; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_ContentBits=0 authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=microsoft.com; x-originating-ip: [2601:600:9780:16f0:f064:2d53:7fe5:528b] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 23b75c43-c1c0-4aed-cf32-08d830241262 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR2101MB1106: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BL0PR2101MB1027152EC8DAD9B3847C3E89A3770BL0PR2101MB1027_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BL0PR2101MB1027.namprd21.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 23b75c43-c1c0-4aed-cf32-08d830241262 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Jul 2020 22:51:15.7237 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 0dyF+HPOFZaMBevB7Z8cRA7mVjphneONL5cG4EMkLG+L0Y6BnwiabqqDdDGJpZw1stD2ocRAXRuL9CSFSgI6MH3v1c3Fw+tcy7a9jY/7RdQ= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR2101MB1106 Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Review of draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 22:51:21 -0000 --_000_BL0PR2101MB1027152EC8DAD9B3847C3E89A3770BL0PR2101MB1027_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable During the IETF hackathon week, I went through all of the suit manifest dra= ft and kept notes. My full review in context is at https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/2017/05/draft-ietf-su= it-manifest-09.pdf which is too long to copy into email here. Besides lots of editorial comments, there's a few technical comments/questi= ons, including (but there may be more depending on whether you interpret some others as ed= itorial or technical): 1. Apparent contradictions about whether on systems with a single comp= onent, whether setting the component index should clear the dependency inde= x or not. 2. What it means to "break" is underspecified (I'm guessing continue o= n to the next command after try-each, as opposed to go on to the next manif= est, but it's not stated in the doc). 3. Section 6.7 seems to require using multiple processes, not just mul= tiple threads, without justification. 4. The trust model when multiple manifest processors exist, in two or = more security domains, is underspecified, and not mentioned in the Security= Considerations section. 5. Suit-text-version-required expression syntax is underspecified. 6. SUIT_Report and Reporting Engine text is added but does not appear = to be about what goes in a SUIT manifest, so I argue that it doesn't belong= in this spec (and is arguable as to whether it's in scope for SUIT at all)= . It reads like SUIT_Record is yet another alternative to IPFIX, syslog, e= tc., and doesn't state the rationale for defining a new format. You might s= ay that it could be used in an octetArray in IPFIX if someone defined such = a field, but this document doesn't, and indeed if SUIT_Record is not someth= ing that would appear in a SUIT manifest, then I think it should not be in = this document. o Furthermore, it says SUIT_Report can go in an attestation report. What= 's the rationale for that as opposed to some more typical logging/reporting= mechanism that might integrate with existing error reporting mechanisms an= d trouble ticketing? I don't think this was motivated in either the suit ar= chitecture or the suit IM document, and I don't recall it ever being discus= sed on the SUIT list or WG meeting (but maybe it was and I forgot?) Again= , I think my preferred course would be to sever it from the SUIT manifest s= pecification. 7. Defining a new identifier space (UUIDs) for vendors is not motivate= d. So a vendor can't use an existing OUI or IANA private enterprise number= that can be easily looked up? You have to instead use an opaque identifier= with no way to directly look up its meaning? What is the rationale for inv= enting a new space rather than being able to reuse an existing one that can= be looked up to get an org name, contact info, etc.? (Yes there is suit-te= xt-vendor-domain but that's severable and optional to implement at all.) An= d a UUID takes up more bytes than either an OUI or a PEN, so is worse for c= onstrained devices, so why not use an existing space that is shorter and he= nce more applicable to constrained devices? 8. The time-of-day and day-of-week wait events are underspecified in t= erms of whether they are in local time or UTC. 9. If I understand correctly, if a dependency manifest sets Strict Ord= er to false, this will then carry over to the dependent manifest, potential= ly leading to a source of unexpected bugs. Is my understanding correct? 10. For conditions that are optional to implement, I couldn't tell if tha= t means that if not implemented by a manifest processor, they are treated a= s passing, failing, or as parse errors. 11. There are several commands where in certain contexts the doc says the= y "MUST have no effect". But why not make them illegal to appear in such c= ontexts? Why spend the extra space to include them in the manifest just t= o have no effect? 12. Swap directive is underspecified in terms of what should happen if th= e destination doesn't yet exist (i.e., fail vs move). 13. IANA considerations section doesn't yet meet the requirements of RFC = 8126. For example, it specifies Expert Review but contains insufficient in= formation to instruct an expert how to review, per the guidelines in that R= FC. I know the doc is long (109 pages) so forgive me if some answers are elsewh= ere in the doc and I just missed them, which just means maybe a cross-reference would be sufficient. :) Dave --_000_BL0PR2101MB1027152EC8DAD9B3847C3E89A3770BL0PR2101MB1027_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

During the IETF hackathon week, I went through all o= f the suit manifest draft and kept notes.

My full review in context is at

https://www.microsoft= .com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/2017/05/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09.pdf

which is too long to copy into email here.

 

Besides lots of editorial comments, there’s a = few technical comments/questions, including

(but there may be more depending on whether you inte= rpret some others as editorial or technical):

1.      Apparent contradictions about whether on systems wi= th a single component, whether setting the component index should clear the= dependency index or not.

2.      What it means to “break” is underspecif= ied (I’m guessing continue on to the next command after try-each, as = opposed to go on to the next manifest, but it’s not stated in the doc= ).

3.      Section 6.7 seems to require using multiple process= es, not just multiple threads, without justification.

4.      The trust model when multiple manifest processors e= xist, in two or more security domains, is underspecified, and not mentioned= in the Security Considerations section.

5.      Suit-text-version-required expression syntax is und= erspecified.

6.      SUIT_Report and Reporting Engine text is added but = does not appear to be about what goes in a SUIT manifest, so I argue that i= t doesn’t belong in this spec (and is arguable as to whether it’= ;s in scope for SUIT at all).  It reads like SUIT_Record is yet another alternative to IPFIX, syslog, etc., and doesn&#= 8217;t state the rationale for defining a new format. You might say that it= could be used in an octetArray in IPFIX if someone defined such a field, b= ut this document doesn’t, and indeed if SUIT_Record is not something that would appear in a SUIT manifest, then I = think it should not be in this document.

o   Furthermore, it says SUIT_Report can go in a= n attestation report.  What’s the rationale for that as opposed = to some more typical logging/reporting mechanism that might integrate with = existing error reporting mechanisms and trouble ticketing? I don’t think this was motivated in either the suit archi= tecture or the suit IM document, and I don’t recall it ever being dis= cussed on the SUIT list or WG meeting (but maybe it was and I forgot?) = ;  Again, I think my preferred course would be to sever it from the SUIT manifest specification.

7.      Defining a new identifier space (UUIDs) for vendors= is not motivated.  So a vendor can’t use an existing OUI or IAN= A private enterprise number that can be easily looked up? You have to inste= ad use an opaque identifier with no way to directly look up its meaning? What is the rationale for inventing a new sp= ace rather than being able to reuse an existing one that can be looked up t= o get an org name, contact info, etc.? (Yes there is suit-text-vendor-domai= n but that’s severable and optional to implement at all.) And a UUID takes up more bytes than either an OUI or= a PEN, so is worse for constrained devices, so why not use an existing spa= ce that is shorter and hence more applicable to constrained devices?

8.      The time-of-day and day-of-week wait events are und= erspecified in terms of whether they are in local time or UTC.

9.      If I understand correctly, if a dependency manifest= sets Strict Order to false, this will then carry over to the dependent man= ifest, potentially leading to a source of unexpected bugs.  Is my unde= rstanding correct?

10.   For conditions that are optional to implement, I co= uldn’t tell if that means that if not implemented by a manifest proce= ssor, they are treated as passing, failing, or as parse errors.<= /p>

11.   There are several commands where in certain context= s the doc says they “MUST have no effect”.  But why not ma= ke them illegal to appear in such contexts?   Why spend the extra= space to include them in the manifest just to have no effect?

12.   Swap directive is underspecified in terms of what s= hould happen if the destination doesn’t yet exist (i.e., fail vs move= ).

13.   IANA considerations section doesn’t yet meet = the requirements of RFC 8126.  For example, it specifies Expert Review= but contains insufficient information to instruct an expert how to review,= per the guidelines in that RFC.

 

I know the doc is long (109 pages) so forgive me if = some answers are elsewhere in the doc and I just missed them,
which just means maybe a cross-reference would be sufficient. J

 

Dave

 

--_000_BL0PR2101MB1027152EC8DAD9B3847C3E89A3770BL0PR2101MB1027_-- From nobody Sat Jul 25 13:24:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 138AE3A0AA4 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 13:24:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zj6hYmcD2ahV for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 13:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EF9B3A0AA3 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 13:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C465300B7D for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 16:24:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id RC-hRvIptV_k for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 16:24:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-72-66-113-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.113.56]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 01144300B84 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 16:24:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.15\)) Message-Id: <46EF83C0-849E-4D5E-B5AB-AA9662D2663C@vigilsec.com> References: To: suit Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 16:24:47 -0400 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.15) Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Visit NomCom during office hours X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 20:24:51 -0000 If anyone is interested in finding out more about NomCom or about = standing for a leadership position, please visit with NomCom during = office hours next week. Russ > I wanted to let everyone know that NomCom will be holding some office = hours next week. If you want to stop by and talk with us (just to say = Hi, ask about NomCom, ask about being a nominee for the various I* = positions, etc.), we'd love to see and hear from you. >=20 > The date and times (which are also posted on the IETF 108 Agenda) are: >=20 > Monday, July 27, 16:00-17:00 UTC WebEx: = https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm13c41ae118e538b6d25efb25d41307ee= > Tuesday, July 28, 09:30-10:30 UTC WebEx: = https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm6132b48c3eac5469a41043ce55dada20= > Thursday, July 30, 20:00-21:00 UTC WebEx: = https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j..php?MTID=3Dmf7ce451931e35818fd7b3bf44abd102= 6 >=20 > In addition to being available by WebEx, those of us who can will = simultaneously be on Gather.Town (possibly in a special NomCom corner). = To find us, the easiest way is to go to the Participants list (at right = of the Gather screen), find "Barbara Stark", left click on my name and = select "Locate". >=20 > See you next week! > Barbara=20 >=20 From nobody Sun Jul 26 13:07:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBDC73A140F for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:06:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9yJzsh4EEi_k for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFF8D3A1410 for ; Sun, 26 Jul 2020 13:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D69C338A5A; Sun, 26 Jul 2020 15:46:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id ExZ591a3XBzH; Sun, 26 Jul 2020 15:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7412238A59; Sun, 26 Jul 2020 15:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 742B71AA; Sun, 26 Jul 2020 16:06:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Dave Thaler , suit In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Review of draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 20:06:58 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Dave Thaler wrote: > During the IETF hackathon week, I went through all of the suit manifest draft and kept notes. > My full review in context is at > https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/2017/05/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09.pdf > which is too long to copy into email here. I appreciate the edits, but would it be as easy for you to do this via github review now? Or are you doing this offline somewhere? > 11. There are several commands where in certain contexts the doc says > they "MUST have no effect". But why not make them illegal to appear in > such contexts? Why spend the extra space to include them in the > manifest just to have no effect? I prefer that we tell the receiver how/if to ignore illegal stuff, rather than assume that we can put requirements on the sender. > I know the doc is long (109 pages) so forgive me if some answers are > elsewhere in the doc and I just missed them, > which just means maybe a cross-reference would be sufficient. :) I found a bunch of what I think are internal references, like "[full-cddl]" was impossible to follow. for example: } The complete CDDL description is provided in [full-cddl], examples } are given in [examples] and a design rational is offered in } [design-rationale]. Finally, [implementation-matrix] gives a I think that there is some xml2rfc rendering issue here. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl8d4lgACgkQgItw+93Q 3WUa9AgArKB3sUKdafBYP/Or+wZ4UnY7bW9eP9zi7r+9mqlJKVxnM+5r351alGyQ th16CtE/SkB58FvfiAxItcZlXdt+Ejsxs+iYdxtB69S908haif0bZ7RXy58vHPk+ C97uLlWpgm3imgKbkQiJbo3cRAb9pVchBT0mVJbt+d+VOeIF198xO2vGTPXpU1wb ropZm3M0+vlDxIi5fzEbqRpYs8W9soy5taECGYp4a/kcZhRjqV7P4ZRkfxYBlxhZ CAxcHpdMLkK8cz8/2vgJyU3U7vNf03ujQ6Dh7DxJdURm37N5Kj5tjVHbIpPZExM5 cN+Ko0hEfdLt7Rrg/bJ4ivny3J84dQ== =M38s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Jul 27 07:46:39 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5910C3A1B93 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 07:46:36 -0700 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d="scan'208";a="31599259" Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de ([141.12.72.89]) by mail-mtaKA28.fraunhofer.de with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 27 Jul 2020 17:15:14 +0200 Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-10) with ESMTPS id 06RFFDJE015519 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:15:13 +0200 Received: from [192.168.16.50] (79.206.156.41) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:15:08 +0200 To: Brendan Moran , Dave Thaler CC: suit References: <70453005-8DFA-4DBE-8C04-9882839D5005@arm.com> From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: <3ff3915e-c61c-2c00-f780-a77c9ab494cc@sit.fraunhofer.de> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:15:07 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <70453005-8DFA-4DBE-8C04-9882839D5005@arm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [79.206.156.41] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Review of draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:15:28 -0000 Hi Brendan, hi Dave thanks for your extensive summary, Brendan! This is very useful. Just two small additions. While CBOR OID seems to be a good match, that unfortunately introduces a timing problem (as does packed), but maybe we can devise a way around that. As PEN are not a rare choice in CBOR-based representations, I'd just want to voice support for the notion of being very careful here. We can of course start to create a qualified name that involves a PEN (among other things), but we are not the only ones that might attempt such a thing and therefore might require some ealignment. Viele Grüße, Henk On 27.07.20 16:42, Brendan Moran wrote: > Hi Dave, > > Thank you very much for your very detailed review! Of course, it will > take me some time to work through this review. I will do my best to > clarify these technical comments as I work through. In general, the > issues you’ve listed look to me like the “right” answer is fairly > obvious, so I will straighten them out. There are several comments that > I think deserve a little more clarification. > > 6. SUIT_Report > >> SUIT_Report and Reporting Engine text is added but does not appear to >> be about what goes in a SUIT manifest, so I argue that it doesn’t >> belong in this spec (and is arguable as to whether it’s in scope for >> SUIT at all) > > You’re right. This has not been raised on the list. If it’s more > appropriate to put it in a new draft, I’m happy to do that. However, > it’s a natural consequence of adding the SUIT_Reporting_Policy, which > was discussed at the virtual interim. It seemed to me that if a > reporting policy was specified, then an implementor would naturally want > to know how to report that information. If there is a need for logging > SUIT commands, along with their arguments and results, this seems very > specific to SUIT in general and the SUIT manifest in specific. I > struggle to see what document would be more appropriate than the SUIT > manifest for the SUIT_Report. > >> Furthermore, it says SUIT_Report can go in an attestation report. >> What’s the rationale for that as opposed to some more typical >> logging/reporting mechanism that might integrate with existing error >> reporting mechanisms and trouble ticketing? > > SUIT_Reporting_Policy has two output channels: “system information,” > that is the “actual” values compared against in conditions, and “command > records” which are effectively logs of command execution. For an update > case, these are adequately served by logging infrastructure. However, in > a bootloader case, this is inadequate because the bootloader and the > booted application are different security domains. This means that any > system information or command records need to be protected from > modification by the application. Typically, this would be done with a > signature; I don’t see how this is different from attestation. > > The discussion of a Reporting Engine seems necessary: it’s the thing > that consumes reporting policy. > >> 7.Defining a new identifier space (UUIDs) for vendors is not >> motivated.  So a vendor can’t use an existing OUI or IANA private >> enterprise number that can be easily looked up? You have to instead >> use an opaque identifier with no way to directly look up its meaning? >> What is the rationale for inventing a new space rather than being able >> to reuse an existing one that can be looked up to get an org name, >> contact info, etc.? (Yes there is suit-text-vendor-domain but that’s >> severable and optional to implement at all.) And a UUID takes up more >> bytes than either an OUI or a PEN, so is worse for constrained >> devices, so why not use an existing space that is shorter and hence >> more applicable to constrained devices? > 7. Vendor IDs > I’d argue that I have not defined a new identifier space. It was defined > in RFC4122. That said, I think that PEN could be beneficial if we can > work around some of the complexities associated with it. > > OUIs may be prohibitive for small manufacturers (US $2,995). For > example, I have seen small manufacturers avoid building USB devices due > to the cost of obtaining a USB VID. Class IDs still require a UUID Name > Space Identifier. There is no rule I can find for constructing an OUI > UUID, so it cannot be used as a UUID Name Space Identifier. > > > Private Enterprise Numbers seem manageable by small manufacturers. > There is a UUID Name Space Identifier for OIDs, however this gets a bit > confusing. You would need to construct a class ID as follows: > > Vendor_UUID = uuid.uuid5(uuid.NAMESPACE_OID, EncodeOID(‘1.3.6.1.4.1.’ + > PEN)) > Class_UUID = uuid.uuid5(Vendor_UUID, Class_Information) > > The problem here is that EncodeOID() is not specified at all in RFC4122. > The closest we get is: > >> For example, some name spaces are the >> domain name system, URLs, ISO Object IDs (OIDs), X.500 Distinguished >> Names (DNs), and reserved words in a programming language. > So Class IDs become unpredictable because OID encoding is underspecified > in RFC4122. I can see the Vendor_UUID being computed with several > different versions of EncodeOID: > - Encode as dotted-integer string > - Encode as DER OID > - Encode as value of DER OID (no tag/length) > - Lots of other ASN.1 encodings possible. > - Future CBOR OID? > > I do not believe we should specify the use of OUIs because 1) they cost > $3000, 2) there is no UUID namespace for OUIs > > I’m not against using a PEN, but we would also need to provide extremely > strict encoding guidelines for constructing Vendor UUIDs, since the > Vendor UUID is needed as the Name Space ID for the Class UUID. For > encoding in the manifest I think we should insist on using the PEN > directly rather than the full OID. But what would we do with a PEN > sub-assignment? > > There’s a lot more complexity here than just “use a PEN.” > > > Best Regards, > Brendan > > >> On 24 Jul 2020, at 23:51, Dave Thaler >> > > wrote: >> >> During the IETF hackathon week, I went through all of the suit >> manifest draft and kept notes. >> My full review in context is at >> https://www.microsoft..com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/2017/05/draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09.pdf >> >> which is too long to copy into email here. >> Besides lots of editorial comments, there’s a few technical >> comments/questions, including >> (but there may be more depending on whether you interpret some others >> as editorial or technical): >> 1.Apparent contradictions about whether on systems with a single >> component, whether setting the component index should clear the >> dependency index or not. >> 2.What it means to “break” is underspecified (I’m guessing continue on >> to the next command after try-each, as opposed to go on to the next >> manifest, but it’s not stated in the doc). >> 3.Section 6.7 seems to require using multiple processes, not just >> multiple threads, without justification. >> 4.The trust model when multiple manifest processors exist, in two or >> more security domains, is underspecified, and not mentioned in the >> Security Considerations section. >> 5.Suit-text-version-required expression syntax is underspecified. >> 6.SUIT_Report and Reporting Engine text is added but does not appear >> to be about what goes in a SUIT manifest, so I argue that it doesn’t >> belong in this spec (and is arguable as to whether it’s in scope for >> SUIT at all).  It reads like SUIT_Record is yet another alternative to >> IPFIX, syslog, etc., and doesn’t state the rationale for defining a >> new format. You might say that it could be used in an octetArray in >> IPFIX if someone defined such a field, but this document doesn’t, and >> indeed if SUIT_Record is not something that would appear in a SUIT >> manifest, then I think it should not be in this document. >> oFurthermore, it says SUIT_Report can go in an attestation report. >> What’s the rationale for that as opposed to some more typical >> logging/reporting mechanism that might integrate with existing error >> reporting mechanisms and trouble ticketing? I don’t think this was >> motivated in either the suit architecture or the suit IM document, and >> I don’t recall it ever being discussed on the SUIT list or WG meeting >> (but maybe it was and I forgot?)   Again, I think my preferred course >> would be to sever it from the SUIT manifest specification. >> 7.Defining a new identifier space (UUIDs) for vendors is not >> motivated.  So a vendor can’t use an existing OUI or IANA private >> enterprise number that can be easily looked up? You have to instead >> use an opaque identifier with no way to directly look up its meaning? >> What is the rationale for inventing a new space rather than being able >> to reuse an existing one that can be looked up to get an org name, >> contact info, etc.? (Yes there is suit-text-vendor-domain but that’s >> severable and optional to implement at all.) And a UUID takes up more >> bytes than either an OUI or a PEN, so is worse for constrained >> devices, so why not use an existing space that is shorter and hence >> more applicable to constrained devices? >> 8.The time-of-day and day-of-week wait events are underspecified in >> terms of whether they are in local time or UTC. >> 9.If I understand correctly, if a dependency manifest sets Strict >> Order to false, this will then carry over to the dependent manifest, >> potentially leading to a source of unexpected bugs.  Is my >> understanding correct? >> 10.For conditions that are optional to implement, I couldn’t tell if >> that means that if not implemented by a manifest processor, they are >> treated as passing, failing, or as parse errors. >> 11.There are several commands where in certain contexts the doc says >> they “MUST have no effect”.  But why not make them illegal to appear >> in such contexts?   Why spend the extra space to include them in the >> manifest just to have no effect? >> 12.Swap directive is underspecified in terms of what should happen if >> the destination doesn’t yet exist (i.e., fail vs move). >> 13.IANA considerations section doesn’t yet meet the requirements of >> RFC 8126.  For example, it specifies Expert Review but contains >> insufficient information to instruct an expert how to review, per the >> guidelines in that RFC. >> I know the doc is long (109 pages) so forgive me if some answers are >> elsewhere in the doc and I just missed them, >> which just means maybe a cross-reference would be sufficient.J >> Dave >> _______________________________________________ >> Suit mailing list >> Suit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit > > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the > contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy > the information in any medium. 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(Fed)" To: Henk Birkholz , Brendan Moran , Dave Thaler CC: suit Thread-Topic: [Suit] Review of draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 Thread-Index: AdZiCUkrB1qNrZ3lS5i4ApAjr2sBOQCGs7sAAAEnfoAAAPfFoA== Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:43:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <70453005-8DFA-4DBE-8C04-9882839D5005@arm.com> <3ff3915e-c61c-2c00-f780-a77c9ab494cc@sit.fraunhofer.de> In-Reply-To: <3ff3915e-c61c-2c00-f780-a77c9ab494cc@sit.fraunhofer.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: sit.fraunhofer.de; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; sit.fraunhofer.de; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [129.6.104.16] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b82e61f5-676e-45c2-010e-08d83243e07d x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CH2PR09MB4299: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 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(Fed)" , Brendan Moran , Dave Thaler CC: suit References: <70453005-8DFA-4DBE-8C04-9882839D5005@arm.com> <3ff3915e-c61c-2c00-f780-a77c9ab494cc@sit.fraunhofer.de> From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: <4d3ed839-c495-0c47-fcbb-931944166090@sit.fraunhofer.de> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 17:51:07 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [79.206.156.41] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Review of draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:51:24 -0000 Hi Dave, yes exactly. This I-D is now revitalized due to some re-occurring requirements - SUIT being one of the domains of interest. Viele Grüße, Henk On 27.07.20 17:43, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote: > By CBOR OID are your referring to draft-bormann-cbor-tags-oid? > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bormann-cbor-tags-oid/ > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Suit On Behalf Of Henk Birkholz > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2020 11:15 AM > To: Brendan Moran ; Dave Thaler > Cc: suit > Subject: Re: [Suit] Review of draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 > > Hi Brendan, > hi Dave > > thanks for your extensive summary, Brendan! This is very useful. Just two small additions. > > While CBOR OID seems to be a good match, that unfortunately introduces a timing problem (as does packed), but maybe we can devise a way around that. > > As PEN are not a rare choice in CBOR-based representations, I'd just want to voice support for the notion of being very careful here. We can of course start to create a qualified name that involves a PEN (among other things), but we are not the only ones that might attempt such a thing and therefore might require some ealignment. > > Viele Grüße, > > Henk > > On 27.07.20 16:42, Brendan Moran wrote: >> Hi Dave, >> >> Thank you very much for your very detailed review! Of course, it will >> take me some time to work through this review. I will do my best to >> clarify these technical comments as I work through. In general, the >> issues you’ve listed look to me like the “right” answer is fairly >> obvious, so I will straighten them out. There are several comments >> that I think deserve a little more clarification. >> >> 6. SUIT_Report >> >>> SUIT_Report and Reporting Engine text is added but does not appear to >>> be about what goes in a SUIT manifest, so I argue that it doesn’t >>> belong in this spec (and is arguable as to whether it’s in scope for >>> SUIT at all) >> >> You’re right. This has not been raised on the list. If it’s more >> appropriate to put it in a new draft, I’m happy to do that. However, >> it’s a natural consequence of adding the SUIT_Reporting_Policy, which >> was discussed at the virtual interim. It seemed to me that if a >> reporting policy was specified, then an implementor would naturally >> want to know how to report that information. If there is a need for >> logging SUIT commands, along with their arguments and results, this >> seems very specific to SUIT in general and the SUIT manifest in >> specific. I struggle to see what document would be more appropriate >> than the SUIT manifest for the SUIT_Report. >> >>> Furthermore, it says SUIT_Report can go in an attestation report. >>> What’s the rationale for that as opposed to some more typical >>> logging/reporting mechanism that might integrate with existing error >>> reporting mechanisms and trouble ticketing? >> >> SUIT_Reporting_Policy has two output channels: “system information,” >> that is the “actual” values compared against in conditions, and >> “command records” which are effectively logs of command execution. For >> an update case, these are adequately served by logging infrastructure. >> However, in a bootloader case, this is inadequate because the >> bootloader and the booted application are different security domains. >> This means that any system information or command records need to be >> protected from modification by the application. Typically, this would >> be done with a signature; I don’t see how this is different from attestation. >> >> The discussion of a Reporting Engine seems necessary: it’s the thing >> that consumes reporting policy. >> >>> 7.Defining a new identifier space (UUIDs) for vendors is not >>> motivated.  So a vendor can’t use an existing OUI or IANA private >>> enterprise number that can be easily looked up? You have to instead >>> use an opaque identifier with no way to directly look up its meaning? >>> What is the rationale for inventing a new space rather than being >>> able to reuse an existing one that can be looked up to get an org >>> name, contact info, etc.? (Yes there is suit-text-vendor-domain but >>> that’s severable and optional to implement at all.) And a UUID takes >>> up more bytes than either an OUI or a PEN, so is worse for >>> constrained devices, so why not use an existing space that is shorter >>> and hence more applicable to constrained devices? >> 7. Vendor IDs >> I’d argue that I have not defined a new identifier space. It was >> defined in RFC4122. That said, I think that PEN could be beneficial if >> we can work around some of the complexities associated with it. >> >> OUIs may be prohibitive for small manufacturers (US $2,995). For >> example, I have seen small manufacturers avoid building USB devices >> due to the cost of obtaining a USB VID. Class IDs still require a UUID >> Name Space Identifier. There is no rule I can find for constructing an >> OUI UUID, so it cannot be used as a UUID Name Space Identifier. >> >> >> Private Enterprise Numbers seem manageable by small manufacturers. >> There is a UUID Name Space Identifier for OIDs, however this gets a >> bit confusing. You would need to construct a class ID as follows: >> >> Vendor_UUID = uuid.uuid5(uuid.NAMESPACE_OID, EncodeOID(‘1.3.6.1.4.1.’ >> + >> PEN)) >> Class_UUID = uuid.uuid5(Vendor_UUID, Class_Information) >> >> The problem here is that EncodeOID() is not specified at all in RFC4122. >> The closest we get is: >> >>> For example, some name spaces are the >>> domain name system, URLs, ISO Object IDs (OIDs), X.500 Distinguished >>> Names (DNs), and reserved words in a programming language. >> So Class IDs become unpredictable because OID encoding is >> underspecified in RFC4122. I can see the Vendor_UUID being computed >> with several different versions of EncodeOID: >> - Encode as dotted-integer string >> - Encode as DER OID >> - Encode as value of DER OID (no tag/length) >> - Lots of other ASN.1 encodings possible. >> - Future CBOR OID? >> >> I do not believe we should specify the use of OUIs because 1) they >> cost $3000, 2) there is no UUID namespace for OUIs >> >> I’m not against using a PEN, but we would also need to provide >> extremely strict encoding guidelines for constructing Vendor UUIDs, >> since the Vendor UUID is needed as the Name Space ID for the Class >> UUID. For encoding in the manifest I think we should insist on using >> the PEN directly rather than the full OID. But what would we do with a >> PEN sub-assignment? >> >> There’s a lot more complexity here than just “use a PEN.” >> >> >> Best Regards, >> Brendan >> >> >>> On 24 Jul 2020, at 23:51, Dave Thaler >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> During the IETF hackathon week, I went through all of the suit >>> manifest draft and kept notes. >>> My full review in context is at >>> https://www.microsoft..com/en-us/research/uploads/prod/2017/05/draft- >>> ietf-suit-manifest-09.pdf >>> >> ietf-suit-manifest-09.pdf> which is too long to copy into email here. >>> Besides lots of editorial comments, there’s a few technical >>> comments/questions, including (but there may be more depending on >>> whether you interpret some others as editorial or technical): >>> 1.Apparent contradictions about whether on systems with a single >>> component, whether setting the component index should clear the >>> dependency index or not. >>> 2.What it means to “break” is underspecified (I’m guessing continue >>> on to the next command after try-each, as opposed to go on to the >>> next manifest, but it’s not stated in the doc). >>> 3.Section 6.7 seems to require using multiple processes, not just >>> multiple threads, without justification. >>> 4.The trust model when multiple manifest processors exist, in two or >>> more security domains, is underspecified, and not mentioned in the >>> Security Considerations section. >>> 5.Suit-text-version-required expression syntax is underspecified. >>> 6.SUIT_Report and Reporting Engine text is added but does not appear >>> to be about what goes in a SUIT manifest, so I argue that it doesn’t >>> belong in this spec (and is arguable as to whether it’s in scope for >>> SUIT at all).  It reads like SUIT_Record is yet another alternative >>> to IPFIX, syslog, etc., and doesn’t state the rationale for defining >>> a new format. You might say that it could be used in an octetArray in >>> IPFIX if someone defined such a field, but this document doesn’t, and >>> indeed if SUIT_Record is not something that would appear in a SUIT >>> manifest, then I think it should not be in this document. >>> oFurthermore, it says SUIT_Report can go in an attestation report. >>> What’s the rationale for that as opposed to some more typical >>> logging/reporting mechanism that might integrate with existing error >>> reporting mechanisms and trouble ticketing? I don’t think this was >>> motivated in either the suit architecture or the suit IM document, >>> and I don’t recall it ever being discussed on the SUIT list or WG >>> meeting (but maybe it was and I forgot?)   Again, I think my >>> preferred course would be to sever it from the SUIT manifest specification. >>> 7.Defining a new identifier space (UUIDs) for vendors is not >>> motivated.  So a vendor can’t use an existing OUI or IANA private >>> enterprise number that can be easily looked up? You have to instead >>> use an opaque identifier with no way to directly look up its meaning? >>> What is the rationale for inventing a new space rather than being >>> able to reuse an existing one that can be looked up to get an org >>> name, contact info, etc.? (Yes there is suit-text-vendor-domain but >>> that’s severable and optional to implement at all.) And a UUID takes >>> up more bytes than either an OUI or a PEN, so is worse for >>> constrained devices, so why not use an existing space that is shorter >>> and hence more applicable to constrained devices? >>> 8.The time-of-day and day-of-week wait events are underspecified in >>> terms of whether they are in local time or UTC. >>> 9.If I understand correctly, if a dependency manifest sets Strict >>> Order to false, this will then carry over to the dependent manifest, >>> potentially leading to a source of unexpected bugs.  Is my >>> understanding correct? >>> 10.For conditions that are optional to implement, I couldn’t tell if >>> that means that if not implemented by a manifest processor, they are >>> treated as passing, failing, or as parse errors. >>> 11.There are several commands where in certain contexts the doc says >>> they “MUST have no effect”.  But why not make them illegal to appear >>> in such contexts?   Why spend the extra space to include them in the >>> manifest just to have no effect? >>> 12.Swap directive is underspecified in terms of what should happen if >>> the destination doesn’t yet exist (i.e., fail vs move). >>> 13.IANA considerations section doesn’t yet meet the requirements of >>> RFC 8126.  For example, it specifies Expert Review but contains >>> insufficient information to instruct an expert how to review, per the >>> guidelines in that RFC. >>> I know the doc is long (109 pages) so forgive me if some answers are >>> elsewhere in the doc and I just missed them, which just means maybe a >>> cross-reference would be sufficient.J Dave >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Suit mailing list >>> Suit@ietf.org >>> https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww >>> .ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=02%7C01%7Cdavid.walter >>> mire%40nist.gov%7Ce1a91bc27b184eb4affa08d8323ff57b%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797 >>> a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637314597580328389&sdata=1HJE9Qiicoe%2 >>> BTGq7kaodbBn23m6L31VL5OQLI3mHoAY%3D&reserved=0 >> >> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are >> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended >> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose >> the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or >> copy the information in any medium. Thank you. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Suit mailing list >> Suit@ietf.org >> https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww. >> ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermi >> re%40nist.gov%7Ce1a91bc27b184eb4affa08d8323ff57b%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93 >> e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637314597580328389&sdata=1HJE9Qiicoe%2BTGq >> 7kaodbBn23m6L31VL5OQLI3mHoAY%3D&reserved=0 >> > > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fsuit&data=02%7C01%7Cdavid.waltermire%40nist.gov%7Ce1a91bc27b184eb4affa08d8323ff57b%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C0%7C637314597580328389&sdata=1HJE9Qiicoe%2BTGq7kaodbBn23m6L31VL5OQLI3mHoAY%3D&reserved=0 > From nobody Mon Jul 27 08:57:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 726CF3A1AAA for ; 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Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:56:19 +0000 From: Brendan Moran To: Henk Birkholz CC: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" , Dave Thaler , suit Thread-Topic: [Suit] Review of draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 Thread-Index: AdZiCUkrB1qNrZ3lS5i4ApAjr2sBOQCGs7sAAAEnfoAAAPfFoAAAShiAAAAuWAA= Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 15:56:19 +0000 Message-ID: <47ADA831-3033-4901-B652-749940E0EC7F@arm.com> References: <70453005-8DFA-4DBE-8C04-9882839D5005@arm.com> <3ff3915e-c61c-2c00-f780-a77c9ab494cc@sit.fraunhofer.de> <4d3ed839-c495-0c47-fcbb-931944166090@sit.fraunhofer.de> In-Reply-To: <4d3ed839-c495-0c47-fcbb-931944166090@sit.fraunhofer.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Authentication-Results-Original: sit.fraunhofer.de; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;sit.fraunhofer.de; dmarc=none action=none header.from=arm.com; x-originating-ip: [82.20.19.206] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-HT: Tenant X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 3afd0264-fa66-4318-8a25-08d832459ec5 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: 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Archived-At: Subject: [Suit] Packed CBOR X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 15:46:29 -0000 T24gTW9uZGF5LCBDYXJzdGVuIHByZXNlbnRlZCBQYWNrZWQgQ0JPUiAoZHJhZnQtYm9ybWFubi1j Ym9yLXBhY2tlZC0wMCkgYXQgdGhlIENCT1Igd29ya2luZyBncm91cCwgd2hpY2ggYWRvcHRlZCBp dC4gVGhpcyBpcyBhbiBleHRlbnNpb24gdG8gdGhlIENCT1Igc3RhbmRhcmQgKFJGQzcwNDkpIHRo YXQgZW5hYmxlcyDigJxwYWNraW5n4oCdIG9mIENCT1Igb2JqZWN0cyB1c2luZyBhIENCT1ItYmFz ZWQgZGljdGlvbmFyeSBjb21wcmVzc2lvbiBzY2hlbWUuDQoNCklmIHRoaXMgaGFkIGJlZW4gaW4g ZHJhZnQgMTggbW9udGhzIGFnbywgdGhlIFNVSVQgbWFuaWZlc3Qgd291bGQgaGF2ZSB1c2VkIGl0 IGluc3RlYWQgb2YgdGhlIOKAnGNvbW1vbuKAnSBibG9jay4gVGhlIGNvbW1vbiBibG9jayBpcyBh IGRlLWZhY3RvIHBhY2tpbmcgbWVjaGFuaXNtIHRoYXQgd291bGQgYmUgbGFyZ2VseSBzdXBwbGFu dGVkIGJ5IHBhY2tlZCBDQk9SLiBJdCBzaW1wbGlmaWVzIG1hbnkgb2YgdGhlIHNjaGVtZXMgdGhh 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b24gMiBkb2VzIHRoZSBzYW1lLCBidXQgcHJvdmlkZXMgbW9yZSBiZW5lZml0cy4gMiBpcyBhcmd1 YWJseSBtb3JlIGRldGVjdGFibGUsIHNpbmNlIGl04oCZcyBlYXNpZXIgdG8gcmVwb3J0IG1hbmlm ZXN0IHYyIHN1cHBvcnQsIHRoYW4gdG8gcmVwb3J0IHN1cHBvcnQgZm9yIGEgc3BlY2lmaWMgQ0JP UiB0YWcgd2l0aGluIHRoZSBTVUlUIE1hbmlmZXN0IFByb2Nlc3Nvci4NCg0KT3B0aW9uIDMgZGVs YXlzIFNVSVQgYm90aCBmb3IgdXBkYXRlcyB0byBTVUlUIGl0c2VsZiwgYW5kIGZvciB0aGUgZGVw ZW5kZW5jeSBvbiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWNib3ItcGFja2VkLTAwLg0KDQpJZiBpdCB3ZXJlbuKAmXQg Zm9yIHRoZSBkZWxheXMsIEnigJlkIGdvIGZvciBPcHRpb24gMy4gV2l0aCB0aGUgZGVsYXlzLCBJ 4oCZbSBub3Qgc3VyZSB3aGF0IHRoZSByaWdodCBhbnN3ZXIgaXMuIDEgJiAyIGZyYWN0dXJlIHRo ZSBlY29zeXN0ZW0gb2YgdXBkYXRhYmxlIGRldmljZXMgaW50byDigJxoYXZlc+KAnSBhbmQg4oCc aGF2ZSBub3RzLuKAnQ0KDQpJIHBsYW4gdG8gZGlzY3VzcyB0aGlzIHRvbW9ycm93IGF0IHRoZSBT VUlUIG1lZXRpbmcuDQoNCg0KQmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzLA0KQnJlbmRhbg0KSU1QT1JUQU5UIE5PVElD RTogVGhlIGNvbnRlbnRzIG9mIHRoaXMgZW1haWwgYW5kIGFueSBhdHRhY2htZW50cyBhcmUgY29u ZmlkZW50aWFsIGFuZCBtYXkgYWxzbyBiZSBwcml2aWxlZ2VkLiBJZiB5b3UgYXJlIG5vdCB0aGUg aW50ZW5kZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50LCBwbGVhc2Ugbm90aWZ5IHRoZSBzZW5kZXIgaW1tZWRpYXRlbHkg YW5kIGRvIG5vdCBkaXNjbG9zZSB0aGUgY29udGVudHMgdG8gYW55IG90aGVyIHBlcnNvbiwgdXNl IGl0IGZvciBhbnkgcHVycG9zZSwgb3Igc3RvcmUgb3IgY29weSB0aGUgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gaW4g YW55IG1lZGl1bS4gVGhhbmsgeW91Lg0K From nobody Thu Jul 30 09:03:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4BDB3A0BDF for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:03:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DYfxbSK9US69 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC7113A0BB8 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 270EF300B22 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 12:02:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id DzpXKRQmFStk for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 12:02:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-72-66-113-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.113.56]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 73827300AB1; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 12:02:54 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.15\)) From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: <7C066E44-8C55-4229-993A-28FD0572992B@arm.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 12:02:55 -0400 Cc: suit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7A2CA643-5784-428A-8771-08BAC9CA7D0E@vigilsec.com> References: <7C066E44-8C55-4229-993A-28FD0572992B@arm.com> To: Brendan Moran X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Packed CBOR X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 16:03:07 -0000 Brendan: Perhaps it is too early to say, but is this CBOR-based dictionary = compression scheme likely to be widely supported in CBOR libraries? To = me, the answer to that question weighs heavily on the preferred way = forward. Russ > On Jul 30, 2020, at 11:46 AM, Brendan Moran = wrote: >=20 > On Monday, Carsten presented Packed CBOR = (draft-bormann-cbor-packed-00) at the CBOR working group, which adopted = it. This is an extension to the CBOR standard (RFC7049) that enables = =E2=80=9Cpacking=E2=80=9D of CBOR objects using a CBOR-based dictionary = compression scheme. >=20 > If this had been in draft 18 months ago, the SUIT manifest would have = used it instead of the =E2=80=9Ccommon=E2=80=9D block. The common block = is a de-facto packing mechanism that would be largely supplanted by = packed CBOR. It simplifies many of the schemes that SUIT already uses = and makes the manifest more compact besides. >=20 > If we were to adopt it now, this would cause two substantial changes = in SUIT: >=20 > 1. Removing several existing SUIT deduplication mechanisms. > 2. Placing a dependency on draft-ietf-cbor-packed-00. >=20 > Both of these would delay SUIT. >=20 > It would have benefits: >=20 > 1. Simplify the manifest structure (complexity moved to packed cbor) > 2. Make the manifest smaller >=20 >=20 > I see several options ahead of us: > 1. Make no change, apply packed CBOR as and when it makes sense. > 2. Make no change now, but plan for a v2 SUIT manifest draft > 3. Adopt packed CBOR & simplify manifest now. >=20 > Option 1 is somewhat problematic in that it splits the ecosystem = we=E2=80=99re trying to create. Option 2 does the same, but provides = more benefits. 2 is arguably more detectable, since it=E2=80=99s easier = to report manifest v2 support, than to report support for a specific = CBOR tag within the SUIT Manifest Processor. >=20 > Option 3 delays SUIT both for updates to SUIT itself, and for the = dependency on draft-ietf-cbor-packed-00. >=20 > If it weren=E2=80=99t for the delays, I=E2=80=99d go for Option 3. = With the delays, I=E2=80=99m not sure what the right answer is. 1 & 2 = fracture the ecosystem of updatable devices into =E2=80=9Chaves=E2=80=9D = and =E2=80=9Chave nots.=E2=80=9D >=20 > I plan to discuss this tomorrow at the SUIT meeting. >=20 >=20 > Best Regards, > Brendan > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > Suit mailing list > Suit@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit From nobody Thu Jul 30 09:20:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32FA13A0BC6 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:20:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=EhgGb9SM; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=armh.onmicrosoft.com header.b=EhgGb9SM Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0802MB2201 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Packed CBOR X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 16:22:50 -0000 SGkgUnVzcywNCg0KSSByZWFsbHkgZG9u4oCZdCBrbm93LiBJ4oCZbSBub3Qgc3VyZSBpZiBDYXJz dGVuIHdvdWxkIGhhdmUgaW5wdXQgb24gdGhhdCBwb2ludCB5ZXQuIE9mIGNvdXJzZSwgaWYgd2Ug YWRvcHQgaXQsIGl0IHdpbGwgZm9yY2UgbWUgdG8gc3VwcG9ydCBpdCBpbiBteSBwdWxsIHBhcnNl ciENCg0KQnJlbmRhbg0KDQo+IE9uIDMwIEp1bCAyMDIwLCBhdCAxNzowMiwgUnVzcyBIb3VzbGV5 IDxob3VzbGV5QHZpZ2lsc2VjLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+DQo+IEJyZW5kYW46DQo+DQo+IFBlcmhh cHMgaXQgaXMgdG9vIGVhcmx5IHRvIHNheSwgYnV0IGlzIHRoaXMgQ0JPUi1iYXNlZCBkaWN0aW9u YXJ5IGNvbXByZXNzaW9uIHNjaGVtZSBsaWtlbHkgdG8gYmUgd2lkZWx5IHN1cHBvcnRlZCBpbiBD 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2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17ADC3A0FB3 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:34:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3qNJxcHIoiZn for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 000733A0D27 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:34:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE420389E4; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id MAdzc0qy1agA; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.21]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00E6E389DB; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:13:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D8F35C; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:34:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Brendan Moran , Dave Thaler , suit In-Reply-To: <3ff3915e-c61c-2c00-f780-a77c9ab494cc@sit.fraunhofer.de> References: <70453005-8DFA-4DBE-8C04-9882839D5005@arm.com> <3ff3915e-c61c-2c00-f780-a77c9ab494cc@sit.fraunhofer.de> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Review of draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 17:34:24 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable dthaler> 6. SUIT_Report dthaler> SUIT_Report and Reporting Engine text is added but does not ap= pear to be dthaler> about what goes in a SUIT manifest, so I argue that it doesn= =E2=80=99t belong in dthaler> this spec (and is arguable as to whether it=E2=80=99s in scope= for SUIT at all) bm> You=E2=80=99re right. This has not been raised on the list. If it= =E2=80=99s more bm> appropriate to put it in a new draft, I=E2=80=99m happy to do that.= However, it=E2=80=99s a bm> natural consequence of adding the=C2=A0SUIT_Reporting_Policy, which= was bm> discussed at the virtual interim. It seemed to me that if a reporti= ng bm> policy was specified, then an implementor would naturally want to k= now how bm> to report that information. If there is a need for logging SUIT com= mands, bm> along with their arguments and results, this seems very specific to= SUIT in bm> general and the SUIT manifest in specific. I struggle to see what d= ocument bm> would be more appropriate than the SUIT manifest for the SUIT_Repor= t. I had tweaked on Dave's question here about whether IPFIX might be an appropriate transport. I am intringued by this possibility. I would like to understand more about this as a concept. I think that I would not want an IPFIX client in a bootloader, so: dthaler> Furthermore, it says SUIT_Report can go in an attestation repo= rt. What=E2=80=99s dthaler> the rationale for that as opposed to some more typical logging= /reporting dthaler> mechanism that might integrate with existing error reporting m= echanisms dthaler> and trouble ticketing? bm> SUIT_Reporting_Policy has two output channels: =E2=80=9Csystem info= rmation,=E2=80=9D that bm> is the =E2=80=9Cactual=E2=80=9D values compared against in conditio= ns, and =E2=80=9Ccommand bm> records=E2=80=9D which are effectively logs of command execution. F= or an update bm> case, these are adequately served by logging infrastructure. Howeve= r, in a bm> bootloader case, this is inadequate because the bootloader and the = booted bm> application are different security domains. This means that any sys= tem bm> information or command records need to be protected from modificati= on by bm> the application. Typically, this would be done with a signature; I = don=E2=80=99t bm> see how this is different from attestation. I don't know what "existing error reporting mechanism" a bootloader (in a nanny cam) might have access to :-) From=20Dave's probably TEEP point of view, I can see that the TAM could well provide a very rich of facilities. The observation that the bootloader and booted application are in different security domains is probably more relevant than the observation I was going to make that the bootloader might not have any network. I think that we can reasonably separate this into another draft, that I think, TEEP would ignore. bm> 7. Vendor IDs bm> I=E2=80=99d argue that I have not defined a new identifier space. I= t was defined in bm> RFC4122. That said, I think that PEN could be beneficial if we can = work bm> around some of the complexities associated with it. bm> bm> OUIs may be prohibitive for small manufacturers (US $2,995). For ex= ample, I bm> have seen small manufacturers avoid building USB devices due to the= cost of bm> obtaining a USB VID. Class IDs still require a UUID Name Space bm> Identifier. There is no rule I can find for constructing an OUI UUI= D, so it bm> cannot be used as a UUID Name Space Identifier. At one point, this was just not an issue because you always had to get one for ethernet. But, in many lower-end semi-industrial cases, the network is provided by a "wifi module", which really does layers 1-4 (sometimes TLS too), so the vendors do not pay for ethernet OUI. bm> Private Enterprise Numbers seem manageable by small manufacturers. bm> There is a UUID Name Space Identifier for OIDs, however this gets a= bit bm> confusing. You would need to construct a class ID as follows: PENs are easy. You send an email to IANA, and a week or so later, you get number. I have one. bm> There=E2=80=99s a lot more complexity here than just =E2=80=9Cuse a= PEN.=E2=80=9D =2D- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect = [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl8jBJoACgkQgItw+93Q 3WW32wf/XbP7S5IP6LG7/CWD+TT0kFLG+Nd3JGIM8gobTtFjkOsm5MbS/VLB5jHZ +YZBuaRFnZmTfwxeIPESRP9z1UsiUCRKp9+OAJaUEGkcGIkBzRwMpuhUI0KRccJ0 Bi/GN8ts7Tke2eJSimiG71TpxRSN+RBCXor50yQUEIl+TO7jp/iVANp4ZO1Ue488 ryui526jJnYbc8pWYFifRBIKJ4T56Id/keHbv4mYrMWVx/OjUd9AyprIuGElAc6+ DwJ5f2adc9+Z7M8bWxZ3qrAUfKTuhhRyXbqBHBfAbRRb6YtpBf3eeSqSpVh2uj7U 33H/2x7sRTFPIREZgUbYEh2MfU+AGQ== =CTCV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Jul 30 10:44:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2EDB3A0D0B for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:44:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ffd2w6Ld_SUj for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85A043A10E4 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9675D389B0; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:23:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 2weDAPSOkvSt; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C284389A0; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id AED0235C; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:44:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Brendan Moran cc: Henk Birkholz , Dave Thaler , suit , "Waltermire\, David A. \(Fed\)" In-Reply-To: <47ADA831-3033-4901-B652-749940E0EC7F@arm.com> References: <70453005-8DFA-4DBE-8C04-9882839D5005@arm.com> <3ff3915e-c61c-2c00-f780-a77c9ab494cc@sit.fraunhofer.de> <4d3ed839-c495-0c47-fcbb-931944166090@sit.fraunhofer.de> <47ADA831-3033-4901-B652-749940E0EC7F@arm.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Review of draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 17:44:52 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Brendan Moran wrote: > 1. Class IDs should be UUIDs. > 2. UUIDs require a Name Space ID. > 3. The Name Space ID should be unique per-vendor. > 4. There must be a way to convert a vendor identifier to a Name Space ID in a consistent way. > OUI does not provide this. > PEN might provide this, but it would require a specification of the > correct encoding to use when creating a UUID from an OID. This is > missing in RFC4122, despite the inclusion of NAMESPACE_OID. I'm looking at section 8.7.5.1 to try to understand things. It seems that rather than have VendorID be hash of DNS_PREFIX, why not just have it be a PEN, encoded as a cbor integer? (Not an OID, just the PEN) You could permit a bstr or integer here, so for those that have some kind of concern about identifying the vendor, they can go with hash of something. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl8jBu8ACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXM0Af/XsJlccLeEHU/rNII/581EM2T1Wg8ksFa8nNMgQI8ZuBBe2TGvY7ik2sI OgdjqkoTVPTB5r/MfCom9CYfPQPxkraF3eHaa5jcsuHIcZhOmstFsjUeM2kCK5ll 9rVKju6tBpWaEbMxT2M6tqP5ILQO6puswEx7qZIHOvBVJAY/NnE9/1snFtpiLvw4 lb4WdZgRO/OujJ1p+RlYdSkCDd58VNDv69WToA6UJ5i+WquBcI7/IGZU25wxRbiW dgBfMg3VLycIhmYVoC86tVbLzicMr+o4b+jciaMeJ2YWUUYkVHqD4Fd1pUwR2IW4 OD8d4iMXZ5YH4RnJWjUdeRldQHeJrw== =dUKk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Jul 30 10:46:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2557D3A0CDD for ; 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Thu, 30 Jul 2020 17:46:41 +0000 From: Brendan Moran To: Michael Richardson CC: Henk Birkholz , Dave Thaler , suit , "Waltermire, David A. 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CTRY:IE; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:CAL; SFV:NSPM; H:64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com; PTR:ec2-63-35-35-123.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(4636009)(376002)(136003)(346002)(39860400002)(396003)(46966005)(4326008)(316002)(53546011)(8936002)(86362001)(82310400002)(6486002)(6512007)(81166007)(107886003)(5660300002)(36906005)(8676002)(356005)(54906003)(6506007)(26005)(47076004)(6862004)(2616005)(33656002)(336012)(70586007)(70206006)(36756003)(83380400001)(2906002)(478600001)(186003)(82740400003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jul 2020 17:46:47.9623 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5d32e170-e677-4a0b-b940-08d834b0886e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d; Ip=[63.35.35.123]; Helo=[64aa7808-outbound-1.mta.getcheckrecipient.com] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: VE1EUR03FT055.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBBPR08MB4281 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Review of draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 17:46:53 -0000 WXVwLiBUaGF04oCZcyB0aGUgZWFzeSBwYXJ0LiBUaGUgaGFyZCBwYXJ0IGlzOiB3aGF04oCZcyB0 aGUgdXVpZCBOYW1lIFNwYWNlIElkZW50aWZpZXIgb2YgdGhlIENsYXNzIElEPw0KDQpCZXN0IFJl Z2FyZHMsDQpCcmVuZGFuDQoNCj4gT24gMzAgSnVsIDIwMjAsIGF0IDE4OjQ0LCBNaWNoYWVsIFJp Y2hhcmRzb24gPG1jcitpZXRmQHNhbmRlbG1hbi5jYT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+DQo+IO+7vw0KPiBCcmVu ZGFuIE1vcmFuIDxCcmVuZGFuLk1vcmFuQGFybS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPj4gMS4gIENsYXNzIElE cyBzaG91bGQgYmUgVVVJRHMuDQo+PiAyLiAgVVVJRHMgcmVxdWlyZSBhIE5hbWUgU3BhY2UgSUQu DQo+PiAzLiAgVGhlIE5hbWUgU3BhY2UgSUQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHVuaXF1ZSBwZXItdmVuZG9yLg0K Pj4gNC4gIFRoZXJlIG11c3QgYmUgYSB3YXkgdG8gY29udmVydCBhIHZlbmRvciBpZGVudGlmaWVy IHRvIGEgTmFtZSBTcGFjZSBJRCBpbiBhIGNvbnNpc3RlbnQgd2F5Lg0KPg0KPj4gT1VJIGRvZXMg bm90IHByb3ZpZGUgdGhpcy4NCj4+IFBFTiBtaWdodCBwcm92aWRlIHRoaXMsIGJ1dCBpdCB3b3Vs ZCByZXF1aXJlIGEgc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUNCj4+IGNvcnJlY3QgZW5jb2RpbmcgdG8g dXNlIHdoZW4gY3JlYXRpbmcgYSBVVUlEIGZyb20gYW4gT0lELiBUaGlzIGlzDQo+PiBtaXNzaW5n IGluIFJGQzQxMjIsIGRlc3BpdGUgdGhlIGluY2x1c2lvbiBvZiBOQU1FU1BBQ0VfT0lELg0KPg0K PiBJJ20gbG9va2luZyBhdCBzZWN0aW9uIDguNy41LjEgdG8gdHJ5IHRvIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgdGhp bmdzLg0KPiBJdCBzZWVtcyB0aGF0IHJhdGhlciB0aGFuIGhhdmUgVmVuZG9ySUQgYmUgaGFzaCBv ZiBETlNfUFJFRklYLA0KPiB3aHkgbm90IGp1c3QgaGF2ZSBpdCBiZSBhIFBFTiwgZW5jb2RlZCBh cyBhIGNib3IgaW50ZWdlcj8NCj4gKE5vdCBhbiBPSUQsIGp1c3QgdGhlIFBFTikNCj4NCj4gWW91 IGNvdWxkIHBlcm1pdCBhIGJzdHIgb3IgaW50ZWdlciBoZXJlLCBzbyBmb3IgdGhvc2UgdGhhdCBo YXZlIHNvbWUga2luZCBvZg0KPiBjb25jZXJuIGFib3V0IGlkZW50aWZ5aW5nIHRoZSB2ZW5kb3Is IHRoZXkgY2FuIGdvIHdpdGggaGFzaCBvZiBzb21ldGhpbmcuDQo+DQo+IC0tDQo+IE1pY2hhZWwg UmljaGFyZHNvbiA8bWNyK0lFVEZAc2FuZGVsbWFuLmNhPiwgU2FuZGVsbWFuIFNvZnR3YXJlIFdv cmtzDQo+IC09IElQdjYgSW9UIGNvbnN1bHRpbmcgPS0NCj4NCj4NCj4NCklNUE9SVEFOVCBOT1RJ Q0U6IFRoZSBjb250ZW50cyBvZiB0aGlzIGVtYWlsIGFuZCBhbnkgYXR0YWNobWVudHMgYXJlIGNv bmZpZGVudGlhbCBhbmQgbWF5IGFsc28gYmUgcHJpdmlsZWdlZC4gSWYgeW91IGFyZSBub3QgdGhl IGludGVuZGVkIHJlY2lwaWVudCwgcGxlYXNlIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGltbWVkaWF0ZWx5 IGFuZCBkbyBub3QgZGlzY2xvc2UgdGhlIGNvbnRlbnRzIHRvIGFueSBvdGhlciBwZXJzb24sIHVz ZSBpdCBmb3IgYW55IHB1cnBvc2UsIG9yIHN0b3JlIG9yIGNvcHkgdGhlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGlu IGFueSBtZWRpdW0uIFRoYW5rIHlvdS4NCg== From nobody Thu Jul 30 10:48:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6E653A0D5E for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:48:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rTce5hqswiLI for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E74FC3A10E9 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB5BA389E4; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id Bhlg9mLvxr4H; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B93F389B0; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F74735C; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 13:47:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Dave Thaler cc: Brendan Moran , suit In-Reply-To: References: <70453005-8DFA-4DBE-8C04-9882839D5005@arm.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Review of draft-ietf-suit-manifest-09 X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 17:48:02 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave Thaler wrote: > Example concrete proposal: > 1) Change suit-parameter-vendor-identifier to be a =E2=80=9Cuint= =E2=80=9D that MUST be a PEN. > 2) Define a well-known =E2=80=9CPEN_NAMESPACE_UUID=E2=80=9D uuid = in the SUIT manifest spec. > 3) Change the recommended method to create a vendor UUID as the n= amespace for class UUID to: > Vendor_UUID =3D uuid.uuid5(uuid. PEN_NAMESPACE_UUID, PEN)) Your choice of variables doesn't match the document, so I was confused for a bit. I think you mean, that to replace: The RECOMMENDED method to create a class ID is: Class ID =3D UUID5(Vendor ID, Class-Specific-Information) with: Vendor_UUID =3D uuid.uuid5(uuid.PEN_NAMESPACE_UUID, PEN)) and I'm good with that, and I should have read the entire thread before suggesting the same thing. =2D- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works -=3D IPv6 IoT consulting =3D- --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAl8jB7kACgkQgItw+93Q 3WVsRAf+KDfUw1K3Y03uUfltOh95fMIa9kBZT/ITG8LKccUOXF9/RXIId+sl3xQI AbR1otjMpnBcQxIQmsoEtYq5AkMrBSK/vxtVxEGWW1RjSYxD7ZGM63oTzPcgB7HC dYn0ZAT6EuBu+y/+r+LpebjE4wXvwaG3OU/nHaUyziKCX831LguTlFZMbBlhmUjj rKmU1taJNkfUWsa8OJKKOULnCHAoKj1ggd5FAYj5ld/vF3XIwh7jZkXk5OGLPL1V sQq6Zh7jgUXX2G3Mw7NUSYdxPRirXXEzLolalt0gopIGDq5c7N2UYiflQRonkkeg 1TEKheJviC/vpMcV3ZUd/ryTKemyiA== =HgR6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Jul 30 10:51:37 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: suit@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044473A0BD4 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:51:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v3wUsLs-wZnL for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:51:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.augustcellars.com (augustcellars.com [50.45.239.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9613F3A044A for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:51:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Jude (73.180.8.170) by mail2.augustcellars.com (192.168.0.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:51:26 -0700 From: Jim Schaad To: 'Brendan Moran' , 'Russ Housley' CC: 'suit' References: <7C066E44-8C55-4229-993A-28FD0572992B@arm.com> <7A2CA643-5784-428A-8771-08BAC9CA7D0E@vigilsec.com> <8F44F248-5181-487F-85BF-A1DCB5037428@arm.com> In-Reply-To: <8F44F248-5181-487F-85BF-A1DCB5037428@arm.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:51:25 -0700 Message-ID: <03b101d6669a$0d2c1d80$27845880$@augustcellars.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQJbZSkIedDi4IWS0ULilo/ytCnCHQDv0vFyAiRcnFen/cSK8A== X-Originating-IP: [73.180.8.170] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Packed CBOR X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 17:51:35 -0000 Two things:=20 1. The CBOR working group has agreed to discuss the packed CBOR, but it = has not yet been adopted and would, at a minimum still need to go = through an adoption call. 2. I cannot answer about all CBOR implementations, but I would expect = that the ones that I regularly work with are very likely to adopt it. =20 There are some ideas around things like dictionaries which have not been = thought through with any degree of completeness. My personal = expectation is that 18 months would be an earliest possible date but = others may disagree with that. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Suit On Behalf Of Brendan Moran Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2020 9:23 AM To: Russ Housley Cc: suit Subject: Re: [Suit] Packed CBOR Hi Russ, I really don=E2=80=99t know. I=E2=80=99m not sure if Carsten would have = input on that point yet. Of course, if we adopt it, it will force me to = support it in my pull parser! Brendan > On 30 Jul 2020, at 17:02, Russ Housley wrote: > > Brendan: > > Perhaps it is too early to say, but is this CBOR-based dictionary = compression scheme likely to be widely supported in CBOR libraries? To = me, the answer to that question weighs heavily on the preferred way = forward. > > Russ > >> On Jul 30, 2020, at 11:46 AM, Brendan Moran = wrote: >> >> On Monday, Carsten presented Packed CBOR = (draft-bormann-cbor-packed-00) at the CBOR working group, which adopted = it. This is an extension to the CBOR standard (RFC7049) that enables = =E2=80=9Cpacking=E2=80=9D of CBOR objects using a CBOR-based dictionary = compression scheme. >> >> If this had been in draft 18 months ago, the SUIT manifest would have = used it instead of the =E2=80=9Ccommon=E2=80=9D block. The common block = is a de-facto packing mechanism that would be largely supplanted by = packed CBOR. It simplifies many of the schemes that SUIT already uses = and makes the manifest more compact besides. >> >> If we were to adopt it now, this would cause two substantial changes = in SUIT: >> >> 1. Removing several existing SUIT deduplication mechanisms. >> 2. Placing a dependency on draft-ietf-cbor-packed-00. >> >> Both of these would delay SUIT. >> >> It would have benefits: >> >> 1. Simplify the manifest structure (complexity moved to packed cbor)=20 >> 2. Make the manifest smaller >> >> >> I see several options ahead of us: >> 1. Make no change, apply packed CBOR as and when it makes sense. >> 2. Make no change now, but plan for a v2 SUIT manifest draft 3. Adopt = >> packed CBOR & simplify manifest now. >> >> Option 1 is somewhat problematic in that it splits the ecosystem = we=E2=80=99re trying to create. Option 2 does the same, but provides = more benefits. 2 is arguably more detectable, since it=E2=80=99s easier = to report manifest v2 support, than to report support for a specific = CBOR tag within the SUIT Manifest Processor. >> >> Option 3 delays SUIT both for updates to SUIT itself, and for the = dependency on draft-ietf-cbor-packed-00. >> >> If it weren=E2=80=99t for the delays, I=E2=80=99d go for Option 3. = With the delays, I=E2=80=99m not sure what the right answer is. 1 & 2 = fracture the ecosystem of updatable devices into =E2=80=9Chaves=E2=80=9D = and =E2=80=9Chave nots.=E2=80=9D >> >> I plan to discuss this tomorrow at the SUIT meeting. >> >> >> Best Regards, >> Brendan >> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. Thank you. >> _______________________________________________ >> Suit mailing list >> Suit@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/suit > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are = confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the = contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy = the information in any medium. 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[134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E95CA3A0DBC for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 15:03:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.116] (p5089ae91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.174.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4BHktw3gk8zygh; Fri, 31 Jul 2020 00:03:20 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <03b101d6669a$0d2c1d80$27845880$@augustcellars.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 00:03:19 +0200 Cc: Brendan Moran , Russ Housley , suit X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 617839399.445407-5e3abd58d0f92c15fcfec1a934093bc7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7A5370E9-B24F-4749-B39E-B92603BB4549@tzi.org> References: <7C066E44-8C55-4229-993A-28FD0572992B@arm.com> <7A2CA643-5784-428A-8771-08BAC9CA7D0E@vigilsec.com> <8F44F248-5181-487F-85BF-A1DCB5037428@arm.com> <03b101d6669a$0d2c1d80$27845880$@augustcellars.com> To: Jim Schaad X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Suit] Packed CBOR X-BeenThere: suit@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Software Updates for Internet of Things List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 22:03:25 -0000 >=20 > 2. I cannot answer about all CBOR implementations, but I would expect = that the ones that I regularly work with are very likely to adopt it. =20= Some implementations would only provide the unpacker, some would provide = (various complexity levels of) packing as well. Note that a CBOR = library that does not implement any of this still enables doing the = pointer-chasing in the application, so the actual coverage may be = greater. > There are some ideas around things like dictionaries which have not = been thought through with any degree of completeness. My personal = expectation is that 18 months would be an earliest possible date but = others may disagree with that. The design space is huge, which tends to slow down development. I think = we will design this in a way that the basic tag 6 packing can be = combined with other tags to achieve the more esoteric feature sets. If = we manage to get the interface to these (future) tags right, we might = not need those 18 months. (Anything below 12 months to RFC is certainly = unlikely.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten