From nobody Thu May 1 10:42:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19F011A6F9E for ; Thu, 1 May 2014 10:42:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.484 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.484 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O5EDe75eCdp4 for ; Thu, 1 May 2014 10:42:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdpipgw02.twcable.com (cdpipgw02.twcable.com [165.237.59.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 323081A0914 for ; Thu, 1 May 2014 10:42:10 -0700 (PDT) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.13 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None 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"draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org" , "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 May 2014 17:42:12 -0000 --_000_CF87FFA81A4FDwesleygeorgetwcablecom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBzZWUgdGhhdCB5b3UgaGF2ZSBzdWJtaXR0ZWQgdHdvIGRyYWZ0cyBmb3IgSVB2NiByb3V0ZXIg SURzIGluIElTSVMgYW5kIE9TUEYsIG5vdGluZyB0aGF0IHRoZSBleGlzdGluZyByb3V0ZXIgSUQg aXMgb25seSA0IG9jdGV0cy4gVGhpcyBoYXMgYWxzbyBjb21lIHVwIGluIElEUiBmb3IgQkdQLiBU aGUgYXV0aG9ycyBvZiB0aGF0IGRyYWZ0IGFyZSBjb3BpZWQuIEnigJlsbCBnaXZlIHlvdSBhIHNp bWlsYXIgc2V0IG9mIGZlZWRiYWNrIHRvIHdoYXQgSSBnYXZlIHRoZW0gLQ0KDQpJdCBpcyBpbXBv cnRhbnQgdG8gZGlzdGluZ3Vpc2ggYmV0d2VlbiBwbGFjZXMgd2hlcmUgYSB1bmlxdWUgaWRlbnRp 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with mapi; Thu, 1 May 2014 13:50:41 -0400 From: "George, Wes" To: "xuxiaohu@huawei.com" Date: Thu, 1 May 2014 13:50:40 -0400 Thread-Topic: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs Thread-Index: Ac9lZd4zbhHa3+wMTomT3AazRGvGkg== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.1.140326 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CF8801231A50Bwesleygeorgetwcablecom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/ONGq4CjNLcLjOxXSZVUY4xnrNO0 Cc: "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" , "sunset4@ietf.org" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 May 2014 17:50:53 -0000 --_000_CF8801231A50Bwesleygeorgetwcablecom_ Content-Type: 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CjwvZm9udD4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_CF8801231A50Bwesleygeorgetwcablecom_-- From nobody Thu May 1 16:00:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9F271A8030 for ; Thu, 1 May 2014 16:00:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.149 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.149 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tzo8UwbtgcOb for ; Thu, 1 May 2014 16:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE6D1A82E2 for ; Thu, 1 May 2014 16:00:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.111] (modemcable060.86-160-184.mc.videotron.ca [184.160.86.60]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 92C9940387; Thu, 1 May 2014 19:00:17 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C4CBC826-EDFC-45EC-907C-E5C5EBE37CCD" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\)) From: Marc Blanchet In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 1 May 2014 19:00:16 -0400 Message-Id: <87123D89-E09C-4DD7-8DB2-E884356B76EF@viagenie.ca> References: To: Wesley George X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/6aAog8uOshlCfVtHv8fqmrsfnyY Cc: "xuxiaohu@huawei.com" , "sunset4@ietf.org" , "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 May 2014 23:00:24 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C4CBC826-EDFC-45EC-907C-E5C5EBE37CCD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Le 2014-05-01 =E0 13:50, George, Wes a =E9crit= : > I got a bounce-back on all 3 draft aliases, trying again with the = authors=92s email addresses directly.=20 >=20 > From: , "George, Wes" > Date: Thursday, May 1, 2014 at 1:42 PM > To: "draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org" = , = "draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org" = > Cc: "draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org" = , "sunset4@ietf.org" = > Subject: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >=20 > I see that you have submitted two drafts for IPv6 router IDs in ISIS = and OSPF, noting that the existing router ID is only 4 octets. This has = also come up in IDR for BGP. The authors of that draft are copied. I=92ll = give you a similar set of feedback to what I gave them -=20 >=20 > It is important to distinguish between places where a unique = identifier is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address assigned to the = device has been used to provide that unique ID, vs. places where the = actual IP address has some sort of importance to the protocol (I.e. That = information must be available to take action on). > In other words, is the protocol requirement that the ID be unique = across some domain, but that the actual value does not matter, or is the = protocol requirement that the value must correspond to something on the = router? In many of the former cases, the fact that the value isn=92t = relevant has been used to make recommendations that are easier for = humans to deal with (I.e. Tying the router ID to an IP address) but that = value as a human-readable set of info does not necessarily justify = changes to the protocol to support that convention as we move to IPv6.=20= > I would argue that the router ID used in routing protocols must merely = be unique, but it doesn=92t have to be an IP address at all. Thus it is = not strictly necessary to create a new field to carry IPv6 addresses = when operating without IPv4 addresses on a network. If you believe = otherwise, the justification needs to be documented in the draft.=20 >=20 > There are many places in IETF protocols where a 32 bit unique = identifier is needed, Back about 13 years ago, when we converted the NTP code to IPv6 and run = the first IPv6 NTP server, we had the same issue. NTP4 had a 32 bit id = to uniquely identify servers. We tried various ways with NTP protocol = engineers and the result was to keep the 32 bit id as is, with some = additional protocol logic "behind the scene". Marc. > and by convention an IPv4 address has been used. It would be far more = useful to write a general draft identifying this problem and discussing = several solutions, including simply generating unique IDs manually, = systematically generating a random ID, etc. the place for such a draft = may be in Sunset4, either as a part of the existing gap analysis draft = or as another standalone draft.=20 >=20 > There was rather a long discussion about this on IDR, thread here: = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?qdr=3Da&email_list=3Didr&q=3D%22= %5Bidr%5D+%5Bv6ops%5D+BGP+Identifier%22&as=3D1&gbt=3D1 >=20 > And in the IDR meeting, minutes: > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/minutes/minutes-89-idr (see page = 11) >=20 > I=92d encourage the authors of these drafts to work together on this. >=20 > Thanks, > =20 > Wes George >=20 > Anything below this line has been added by my company=92s mail server, = I have no control over it. > ----------- >=20 > This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable = proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject = to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended = solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. = If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby = notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken = in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is = strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this = E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently = delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 --Apple-Mail=_C4CBC826-EDFC-45EC-907C-E5C5EBE37CCD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Le 2014-05-01 =E0 13:50, George, Wes = <wesley.george@twcable.com>= ; a =E9crit :

I got a bounce-back on all 3 draft aliases, trying again with the = authors=92s email addresses directly. 


I see that you have submitted two drafts for IPv6 router IDs in = ISIS and OSPF, noting that the existing router ID is only 4 octets. This = has also come up in IDR for BGP. The authors of that draft are copied. = I=92ll give you a similar set of feedback to what I gave them - 

It is important to distinguish between places where a unique = identifier is needed, and by convention an IPv4 = address assigned to the device has been used to provide that unique ID, = vs. places where the actual IP address has some sort of importance to = the protocol (I.e. That information must be available to take action on).
In other words, is the protocol requirement that the ID be unique = across some domain, but that the actual value does not matter, or is the = protocol requirement that the value must correspond to something on the = router? In many of the former cases, the fact that the value isn=92t relevant has been used to make = recommendations that are easier for humans to deal with (I.e. Tying the = router ID to an IP address) but that value as a human-readable set of = info does not necessarily justify  changes to the protocol to support that convention as we move to IPv6. 
I would argue that the router ID used in routing protocols must = merely be unique, but it doesn=92t have to be an IP address at all. Thus = it is not strictly necessary to create a new field to carry IPv6 = addresses when operating without IPv4 addresses on a network. If you believe otherwise, the justification needs to be = documented in the draft. 

There are many places in IETF protocols where a 32 bit unique = identifier is needed, =

Back = about 13 years ago, when we converted the NTP code to IPv6 and run the = first IPv6 NTP server, we had the same issue. NTP4 had a 32 bit id to = uniquely identify servers.  We tried various ways with NTP protocol = engineers and the result was to keep the 32 bit id as is, with some = additional protocol logic "behind the = scene".

Marc.


and by = convention an IPv4 address has been used. It would be far more useful to = write a general draft identifying this problem and discussing several = solutions, including simply generating unique IDs manually, systematically generating a = random ID, etc.  the place for such a draft may be in Sunset4, = either as a part of the existing gap analysis draft or as another = standalone = draft. 







And in the IDR meeting, minutes:

I=92d encourage the authors of these drafts to work together on = this.

Thanks,
  
Wes George

Anything below this line has been added by my company=92s mail = server, I have no control over it.
-----------

This E-mail and any of = its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable proprietary information, = which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to = Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If = you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby = notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken = in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have = received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and = permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any = printout.
_______________________________________________
sunset4 mailing = list
sunset4@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4

= --Apple-Mail=_C4CBC826-EDFC-45EC-907C-E5C5EBE37CCD-- From nobody Sat May 3 09:14:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1105C1A0097 for ; Sat, 3 May 2014 09:14:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.328 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.328 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uJcYA5a65T6o for ; Sat, 3 May 2014 09:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta.chinamobile.com (cmccmta.chinamobile.com [221.176.64.232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DF4D31A0031 for ; Sat, 3 May 2014 09:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.20.12]) by rmmx-oa_allagent02-12002 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee2536515dd680-fd680; Sun, 04 May 2014 00:14:22 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee2536515dd680-fd680 Received: from adminPC (unknown[125.97.240.164]) by rmsmtp-oa_rmapp02-12002 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee2536515dd663-84826; Sun, 04 May 2014 00:14:22 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee2536515dd663-84826 From: "Fan, Peng" To: "'George, Wes'" , , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 00:14:36 +0800 Message-ID: <005001cf66ea$c7cd88b0$57689a10$@chinamobile.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0051_01CF672D.D5F50E70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQIDHmaQ8zcXCJcOJCQnu6vkU/0WB5rHljdQ Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/d_zXlOPyVc1gribDlkzeR8_Yqb0 Cc: draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org, sunset4@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 May 2014 16:14:47 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01CF672D.D5F50E70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Wesley, =20 Thanks for the information. I=E2=80=99ve been working on this following = the feedbacks from the last meeting, and will contact Xiaohu to see if = we are on the same page. =20 Best regards, Peng =20 From: sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of George, Wes Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 1:42 AM To: draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org; = draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org Cc: draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org; sunset4@ietf.org Subject: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs =20 I see that you have submitted two drafts for IPv6 router IDs in ISIS and = OSPF, noting that the existing router ID is only 4 octets. This has also = come up in IDR for BGP. The authors of that draft are copied. = I=E2=80=99ll give you a similar set of feedback to what I gave them -=20 =20 It is important to distinguish between places where a unique identifier = is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address assigned to the device has = been used to provide that unique ID, vs. places where the actual IP = address has some sort of importance to the protocol (I.e. That = information must be available to take action on). In other words, is the protocol requirement that the ID be unique across = some domain, but that the actual value does not matter, or is the = protocol requirement that the value must correspond to something on the = router? In many of the former cases, the fact that the value = isn=E2=80=99t relevant has been used to make recommendations that are = easier for humans to deal with (I.e. Tying the router ID to an IP = address) but that value as a human-readable set of info does not = necessarily justify changes to the protocol to support that convention = as we move to IPv6.=20 I would argue that the router ID used in routing protocols must merely = be unique, but it doesn=E2=80=99t have to be an IP address at all. Thus = it is not strictly necessary to create a new field to carry IPv6 = addresses when operating without IPv4 addresses on a network. If you = believe otherwise, the justification needs to be documented in the = draft.=20 =20 There are many places in IETF protocols where a 32 bit unique identifier = is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address has been used. It would be = far more useful to write a general draft identifying this problem and = discussing several solutions, including simply generating unique IDs = manually, systematically generating a random ID, etc. the place for = such a draft may be in Sunset4, either as a part of the existing gap = analysis draft or as another standalone draft.=20 =20 There was rather a long discussion about this on IDR, thread here: = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?qdr=3Da = = &email_list=3Didr&q=3D%22%5Bidr%5D+%5Bv6ops%5D+BGP+Identifier%22&as=3D1&g= bt=3D1 =20 And in the IDR meeting, minutes: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/minutes/minutes-89-idr (see page 11) =20 I=E2=80=99d encourage the authors of these drafts to work together on = this. =20 Thanks, =20 Wes George =20 Anything below this line has been added by my company=E2=80=99s mail = server, I have no control over it. ----------- =20 _____ =20 This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable = proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject = to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended = solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. = If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby = notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken = in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is = strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this = E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently = delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01CF672D.D5F50E70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Wesley,

 

Thanks for the information. I=E2=80=99ve been working on this = following the feedbacks from the last meeting, and will contact Xiaohu = to see if we are on the same page.

 

Best regards,

Peng

 

From:= = sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of George, = Wes
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 1:42 AM
To: = draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org; = draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org
Cc: = draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org; = sunset4@ietf.org
Subject: [sunset4] IPv6 router = IDs

 

I see that you have submitted two drafts for IPv6 router IDs in ISIS = and OSPF, noting that the existing router ID is only 4 octets. This has = also come up in IDR for BGP. The authors of that draft are copied. = I=E2=80=99ll give you a similar set of feedback to what I gave them = - 

 

It is important to distinguish between places where a unique identifier = is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address assigned to the = device has been used to provide that unique ID, vs. places where the = actual IP address has some sort of importance to the protocol (I.e. That = information must be available to take action = on).

In other words, is the protocol requirement that the ID be unique = across some domain, but that the actual value does not matter, or is the = protocol requirement that the value must correspond to something on the = router? In many of the former cases, the fact that the value = isn=E2=80=99t relevant has been used to make recommendations that are = easier for humans to deal with (I.e. Tying the router ID to an IP = address) but that value as a human-readable set of info does not = necessarily justify  changes to the protocol to support that = convention as we move to IPv6. 

I would argue that the router ID used in routing protocols must merely = be unique, but it doesn=E2=80=99t have to be an IP address at all. Thus = it is not strictly necessary to create a new field to carry IPv6 = addresses when operating without IPv4 addresses on a network. If you = believe otherwise, the justification needs to be documented in the = draft. 

 

There are many places in IETF protocols where a 32 bit unique = identifier is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address has been used. = It would be far more useful to write a general draft identifying this = problem and discussing several solutions, including simply generating = unique IDs manually, systematically generating a random ID, etc. =  the place for such a draft may be in Sunset4, either as a part of = the existing gap analysis draft or as another standalone = draft. 

 

 

And in the IDR meeting, minutes:

 

I=E2=80=99d encourage the authors of these drafts to work together on = this.

 

Thanks,

  

=

Wes = George

 

Anything below this line has = been added by my company=E2=80=99s mail server, I have no control over = it.

-----------

 

Thi= s E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable = proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject = to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended = solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. = If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby = notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken = in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is = strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this = E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently = delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any = printout.

------=_NextPart_000_0051_01CF672D.D5F50E70-- From nobody Sun May 4 12:49:58 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2778A1A0160; Sun, 4 May 2014 01:29:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.251 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.251 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id in1zbsTqFSFX; Sun, 4 May 2014 01:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E05D31A00F9; Sun, 4 May 2014 01:29:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BGJ50163; Sun, 04 May 2014 08:29:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sun, 4 May 2014 09:28:01 +0100 Received: from nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.40) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sun, 4 May 2014 09:29:09 +0100 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.115]) by nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Sun, 4 May 2014 16:29:05 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "George, Wes" Thread-Topic: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs Thread-Index: Ac9lZd4zbhHa3+wMTomT3AazRGvGkgCB6UTQ Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 08:29:04 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826F90C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826F90CNKGEML512MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/mca3uE1MPM9S9fsE9d4xVxYr5i0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 04 May 2014 12:49:51 -0700 Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" , "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" , "sunset4@ietf.org" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 May 2014 08:29:23 -0000 --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826F90CNKGEML512MBSchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mdaHcFQSx2Z2; Sun, 4 May 2014 06:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AC8F1A0099; Sun, 4 May 2014 06:42:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=36632; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1399210923; x=1400420523; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=hQCWoub7slpHj8i4WVENKae50iOQlIWfF7p092GiNVI=; b=ATU1j9xwxDCwFBiFkm+/XTgww0Wwdyz3MKjUU1RDNiP/BPRXtgs3HQ5H f2vfKacLEKRjh+WSDTdd+7kp5BqrL3Af9O/DvQNb7NTMODwEirgM0W2dK 6qFJpFsihVI39NXRpfhLBnq4NYYVclkrFHnC8nUE7V5yi9qkC9rs6SInq A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AiUFAMhCZlOtJV2Y/2dsb2JhbABYgkJET1iCZ7kEiHsZdRZ0giUBAQEEIwo6CwcQAgEGAhEDAQEBCxYHAwICAjAUCQgBAQQOBQgBEogmDYlvnB6jexeJMYQ/EAIBHg0SAQcGBAYBAoJyNoEVBIVJjzGFdpE4gzSCLw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,982,1389744000"; d="scan'208,217";a="322356662" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 May 2014 13:42:01 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com [173.37.183.85]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s44Dg1Iw029307 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sun, 4 May 2014 13:42:01 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([169.254.5.230]) by xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com ([173.37.183.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Sun, 4 May 2014 08:42:00 -0500 From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" To: Xuxiaohu , "George, Wes" Thread-Topic: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs Thread-Index: Ac9lZd4zbhHa3+wMTomT3AazRGvGkgCB6UTQAAwJqUA= Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 13:42:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826F90C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826F90C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.21.100.245] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F3ADE4747C9E124B89F0ED2180CC814F23D81B50xmbalnx02ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/tgGhIzItrgIgLxPCoOp8xum7m9o X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 04 May 2014 12:49:50 -0700 Cc: "sunset4@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 May 2014 13:42:16 -0000 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[194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4B0B1A0204; Sun, 4 May 2014 19:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BDU93245; Mon, 05 May 2014 02:31:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 5 May 2014 03:30:06 +0100 Received: from NKGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.37) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 5 May 2014 03:31:35 +0100 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.115]) by nkgeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.37]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 5 May 2014 10:31:32 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" , "George, Wes" Thread-Topic: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs Thread-Index: Ac9lZd4zbhHa3+wMTomT3AazRGvGkgCB6UTQAAwJqUAAGERfYA== Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 02:31:31 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FA7A@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826F90C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FA7ANKGEML512MBSchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/k_eBJYqBcv0oZcNCv5U2EgPOmYo Cc: "sunset4@ietf.org" , "ospf@ietf.org" , "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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From: Acee Lindem To: Xuxiaohu , "George, Wes" Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs Thread-Index: AQHPaG44vFcgsGweDEKs/k/4sOkGnw== Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 14:28:01 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.1.140326 x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.12] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CF8CEDD42D52Baceelindemericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprLIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPlO5sv/Rgg74TnBbrG16wWxw99J7V 4uui2UwWLffusVus3LOf3WLJ5uusFlvPr2J0YPeYd2Ehm0fLkbesHkuW/GTyWL3mFUsASxSX TUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxvsdj5kKZrQzVTy8tJKtgXF+A1MXIyeHhICJxOcf11kgbDGJC/fWs3Ux cnEICRxllFh4+wsjhLOMUeLIocnsIFVsAjoSzx/9YwaxRQR8JU6sOQpmMwu8ZJTYfl0ZxBYW MJDYdeEWK0SNocShySeZIGw9iSeT1oPZLAIqEus/HAHbzCtgKtHZ18IGYjMCXfH91BomiJni EreezIe6VEBiyZ7zzBC2qMTLx//A5osCzXx3HKZGSWLO62tQ90RJ7PhwhhlivqDEyZlPWCYw isxCMnYWkrJZSMpmMXIAxTUl1u/ShyhRlJjS/ZAdwtaQaJ0zF8q2llj5cS07spoFjByrGDlK 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mb-aye.local ([190.112.53.211]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s45FsoSb053632 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 5 May 2014 15:54:51 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) Message-ID: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 10:54:49 -0500 From: joel jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/29.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Acee Lindem , Xuxiaohu , "George, Wes" References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="MnK0xd831xgKVl8dVmlOwmGtCFv446i3O" X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (nagasaki.bogus.com [147.28.0.81]); Mon, 05 May 2014 15:54:53 +0000 (UTC) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/a4Sj0l0FpKjDSOztt3Q4j-_RbTg Cc: "ospf@ietf.org" , "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" , "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "sunset4@ietf.org" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] [Isis-wg] IPv6 router IDs X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 15:56:00 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --MnK0xd831xgKVl8dVmlOwmGtCFv446i3O Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 5/5/14, 9:28 AM, Acee Lindem wrote: > Xiaohu =E2=80=93 what are precisely the situations that you think you n= eed this > IPv6 address?=20 > Acee if you're using router-id's as equivalency as an ipv4 unicast addresses. you're doing so at your peril because there is zero assurance that those actually map. the first time you have a router id of 11100000000000000000000000000101 well bummer. I don't find the embedding of semantic meaning in router-ids to be more compelling then it was in ip addresses. > From: Xuxiaohu > > Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:29 AM > To: "George, Wes" > > Cc: OSPF - OSPF WG List >, > "isis-wg@ietf.org " >, "fanpeng@chinamobile.com > " >, "sunset4@ietf.org > " >= , > "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com " > > > Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >=20 > Hi Wes, >=20 > =20 >=20 > Thanks for pointing out these two drafts. >=20 > =20 >=20 > The motivation for these two drafts > (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is very= > simple: the IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used for= > advertising router capabilities can be flooded across areas, > however, only a 4-octect router ID is carried in them. As a result,= > it=E2=80=99s hard for routers in one area to establish correlations= between > IPv6 addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. For > example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a L3VPN > session with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6 > addresses. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B vi= a > a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B has the > ELC (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before > > inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet . However, the Capability > TLV originated by router B doesn=E2=80=99t carried an IPv6 address = of its > own. As a result, it=E2=80=99s hard for router A to know the ELC of= router B. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Xiaohu >=20 > =20 >=20 > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:*George, Wes [mailto:wesley.george@twc= able.com] > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:*2014=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=882=E6=97= =A51:51 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:*Xuxiaohu > *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:*sunset4@ietf.org ; > fanpeng@chinamobile.com ; > lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:*Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >=20 > =20 >=20 > I got a bounce-back on all 3 draft aliases, trying again with the > authors=E2=80=99s email addresses directly.=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > *From: *, "George, Wes" > > *Date: *Thursday, May 1, 2014 at 1:42 PM > *To: *"draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org > " > >, > "draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org > " > > > *Cc: *"draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org > " > >, > "sunset4@ietf.org " > > *Subject: *[sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >=20 > =20 >=20 > I see that you have submitted two drafts for IPv6 router IDs in ISI= S > and OSPF, noting that the existing router ID is only 4 octets. This= > has also come up in IDR for BGP. The authors of that draft are > copied. I=E2=80=99ll give you a similar set of feedback to what I g= ave them -=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > It is important to distinguish between places where a unique > identifier is needed, and by *convention* an IPv4 address assigned > to the device has been used to provide that unique ID, vs. places > where the actual IP address has some sort of importance to the > protocol (I.e. That information must be available to take action on= ). >=20 > In other words, is the protocol requirement that the ID be unique > across some domain, but that the actual value does not matter, or i= s > the protocol requirement that the value must correspond to somethin= g > on the router? In many of the former cases, the fact that the value= > isn=E2=80=99t relevant has been used to make recommendations that a= re easier > for humans to deal with (I.e. Tying the router ID to an IP address)= > but that value as a human-readable set of info does not necessarily= > justify changes to the protocol to support that convention as we > move to IPv6.=20 >=20 > I would argue that the router ID used in routing protocols must > merely be unique, but it doesn=E2=80=99t have to be an IP address a= t all. > Thus it is not strictly necessary to create a new field to carry > IPv6 addresses when operating without IPv4 addresses on a network. > If you believe otherwise, the justification needs to be documented > in the draft.=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > There are many places in IETF protocols where a 32 bit unique > identifier is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address has been > used. It would be far more useful to write a general draft > identifying this problem and discussing several solutions, includin= g > simply generating unique IDs manually, systematically generating a > random ID, etc. the place for such a draft may be in Sunset4, > either as a part of the existing gap analysis draft or as another > standalone draft.=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > There was rather a long discussion about this on IDR, thread > here: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?qdr=3Da&email_list=3D= idr&q=3D%22%5Bidr%5D+%5Bv6ops%5D+BGP+Identifier%22&as=3D1&gbt=3D1 >=20 > =20 >=20 > And in the IDR meeting, minutes: >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/minutes/minutes-89-idr (see page= 11) >=20 > =20 >=20 > I=E2=80=99d encourage the authors of these drafts to work together = on this. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > =20 >=20 > Wes George >=20 > =20 >=20 > Anything below this line has been added by my company=E2=80=99s mai= l server, > I have no control over it. >=20 > ----------- >=20 > =20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- >=20 > This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cabl= e > proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or > subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is= > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it= > is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail,= > you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, > copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and > attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be > unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify > the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any > copy of this E-mail and any printout. >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 >=20 --MnK0xd831xgKVl8dVmlOwmGtCFv446i3O Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlNntEkACgkQ8AA1q7Z/VrIZEACgiC+YSghYMANdgep1OB2oaeMf F9AAniUXr71eyoaCgjzutVV+F+Vn0KV/ =rC49 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --MnK0xd831xgKVl8dVmlOwmGtCFv446i3O-- From nobody Mon May 5 18:48:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com 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from LHREML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 6 May 2014 02:46:59 +0100 Received: from NKGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.32) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 6 May 2014 02:48:07 +0100 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.115]) by nkgeml401-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.32]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 6 May 2014 09:48:01 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: joel jaeggli , Acee Lindem , "George, Wes" Thread-Topic: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs Thread-Index: AQHPaHqbrKqcAEziXE+afYJntDEJr5syyEpw Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 01:48:00 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> In-Reply-To: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: 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sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8BD61A06A7 for ; Tue, 6 May 2014 06:13:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R8pd885ryj6S for ; Tue, 6 May 2014 06:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdptpa-oedge-vip.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.225]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73E631A06A1 for ; Tue, 6 May 2014 06:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [65.190.6.125] ([65.190.6.125:34586] helo=[10.0.1.4]) by cdptpa-oedge02 (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.5.0.35861 r(Momo-dev:tip)) with ESMTP id 3D/73-15603-C00E8635; Tue, 06 May 2014 13:13:51 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\)) From: Acee Lindem In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 09:13:46 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: Xuxiaohu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874) X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.168.130:25 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/vpnulLJ9KoWupB4IxxAvJtbo9gU X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 06 May 2014 06:24:20 -0700 Cc: "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "George, Wes" , "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" , joel jaeggli , OSPF List , Acee Lindem , "sunset4@ietf.org" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] =?utf-8?b?W09TUEZdIOetlOWkjTogW0lzaXMtd2ddICAgIElQdjYg?= =?utf-8?q?router_IDs?= X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 May 2014 13:13:57 -0000 On May 5, 2014, at 9:48 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: >=20 >=20 >> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Isis-wg = [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 joel jaeggli >> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=885=E6=97=A5= 23:55 >> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Acee Lindem; Xuxiaohu; George, Wes >> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: ospf@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; = isis-wg@ietf.org; >> sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>=20 >> On 5/5/14, 9:28 AM, Acee Lindem wrote: >>> Xiaohu =E2=80=93 what are precisely the situations that you think = you need >>> this >>> IPv6 address? >>> Acee >>=20 >> if you're using router-id's as equivalency as an ipv4 unicast = addresses. >> you're doing so at your peril because there is zero assurance that = those actually >> map. the first time you have a router id of >> 11100000000000000000000000000101 well bummer. >=20 > The IPv6 router ID sub-TLV of the ISIS router capability TLV must = carry a "routable" IPv6 address. If the name of the sub-TLV seems = confusing, it can be changed to IPv6 address sub-TLV. Independent of what you call it, you didn=E2=80=99t answer my question. = Other than TE, what the use cases where it is needed?=20 Acee=20 >=20 > Best regards, > Xiaohu >=20 >> I don't find the embedding of semantic meaning in router-ids to be = more >> compelling then it was in ip addresses. >>=20 >>> From: Xuxiaohu > >>> Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:29 AM >>> To: "George, Wes" >> > >>> Cc: OSPF - OSPF WG List >, >>> "isis-wg@ietf.org " >> >, "fanpeng@chinamobile.com >>> " >> >, "sunset4@ietf.org >>> " >> >, "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >> " >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>=20 >>> Hi Wes, >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thanks for pointing out these two drafts. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The motivation for these two drafts >>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and >>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is = very >>> simple: the IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used = for >>> advertising router capabilities can be flooded across areas, >>> however, only a 4-octect router ID is carried in them. As a = result, >>> it=E2=80=99s hard for routers in one area to establish = correlations between >>> IPv6 addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. For >>> example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a = L3VPN >>> session with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6 >>> addresses. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B = via >>> a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B has the >>> ELC (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before >>> >>> inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet . However, the Capability >>> TLV originated by router B doesn=E2=80=99t carried an IPv6 = address of its >>> own. As a result, it=E2=80=99s hard for router A to know the ELC = of router B. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Best regards, >>>=20 >>> Xiaohu >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:*George, Wes = [mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com] >>> *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:*2014=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=882=E6=97= =A51:51 >>> *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:*Xuxiaohu >>> *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:*sunset4@ietf.org ; >>> fanpeng@chinamobile.com ; >>> lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >>> *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:*Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I got a bounce-back on all 3 draft aliases, trying again with the >>> authors=E2=80=99s email addresses directly. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> *From: *, "George, Wes" >> > >>> *Date: *Thursday, May 1, 2014 at 1:42 PM >>> *To: *"draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org >>> " >>> >> >, >>> "draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org >>> " >>> >> > >>> *Cc: *"draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org >>> " >>> >> >, >>> "sunset4@ietf.org " >> > >>> *Subject: *[sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I see that you have submitted two drafts for IPv6 router IDs in = ISIS >>> and OSPF, noting that the existing router ID is only 4 octets. = This >>> has also come up in IDR for BGP. The authors of that draft are >>> copied. I=E2=80=99ll give you a similar set of feedback to what I = gave >>> them - >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> It is important to distinguish between places where a unique >>> identifier is needed, and by *convention* an IPv4 address = assigned >>> to the device has been used to provide that unique ID, vs. places >>> where the actual IP address has some sort of importance to the >>> protocol (I.e. That information must be available to take action = on). >>>=20 >>> In other words, is the protocol requirement that the ID be unique >>> across some domain, but that the actual value does not matter, or = is >>> the protocol requirement that the value must correspond to = something >>> on the router? In many of the former cases, the fact that the = value >>> isn=E2=80=99t relevant has been used to make recommendations that = are easier >>> for humans to deal with (I.e. Tying the router ID to an IP = address) >>> but that value as a human-readable set of info does not = necessarily >>> justify changes to the protocol to support that convention as we >>> move to IPv6. >>>=20 >>> I would argue that the router ID used in routing protocols must >>> merely be unique, but it doesn=E2=80=99t have to be an IP address = at all. >>> Thus it is not strictly necessary to create a new field to carry >>> IPv6 addresses when operating without IPv4 addresses on a = network. >>> If you believe otherwise, the justification needs to be = documented >>> in the draft. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> There are many places in IETF protocols where a 32 bit unique >>> identifier is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address has been >>> used. It would be far more useful to write a general draft >>> identifying this problem and discussing several solutions, = including >>> simply generating unique IDs manually, systematically generating = a >>> random ID, etc. the place for such a draft may be in Sunset4, >>> either as a part of the existing gap analysis draft or as another >>> standalone draft. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> There was rather a long discussion about this on IDR, thread >>> here: >>> = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?qdr=3Da&email_list=3Didr&q=3D%22= %5 >>> Bidr%5D+%5Bv6ops%5D+BGP+Identifier%22&as=3D1&gbt=3D1 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> And in the IDR meeting, minutes: >>>=20 >>> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/minutes/minutes-89-idr (see >>> page 11) >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I=E2=80=99d encourage the authors of these drafts to work = together on this. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Wes George >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Anything below this line has been added by my company=E2=80=99s = mail server, >>> I have no control over it. >>>=20 >>> ----------- >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> -- >>>=20 >>> This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner = Cable >>> proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or >>> subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail = is >>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which = it >>> is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this = E-mail, >>> you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, >>> copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and >>> attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be >>> unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please = notify >>> the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and = any >>> copy of this E-mail and any printout. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sunset4 mailing list >>> sunset4@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 >>>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf From nobody Tue May 6 18:10:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A900B1A049E; Tue, 6 May 2014 18:10:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.952 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.952 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, 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Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.115]) by nkgeml410-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 7 May 2014 09:10:07 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Acee Lindem Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W09TUEZdIOetlOWkjTogW0lzaXMtd2ddIFtzdW5zZXQ0XSAgIElQdjYgcm91?= =?utf-8?Q?ter_IDs?= Thread-Index: AQHPaHqbrKqcAEziXE+afYJntDEJr5syyEpwgAA6qgCAAU39MA== Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 01:10:07 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0827025D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/fqbO1ryMvISA8m2rKYjv9T9T1H4 Cc: "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "George, Wes" , "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" , joel jaeggli , OSPF List , Acee Lindem , "sunset4@ietf.org" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: [sunset4] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBbT1NQRl0g562U5aSNOiBbSXNpcy13Z10g?= =?utf-8?q?___IPv6_router_IDs?= X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 May 2014 01:10:28 -0000 SGkgQWNlZSwNCg0KVGhlIG1vdGl2YXRpb24gZm9yIHRoZXNlIHR3byBkcmFmdHMgKGh0dHA6Ly90 b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LXh1LWlzaXMtaXB2Ni1yb3V0ZXItaWQtMDAgYW5kIGh0 dHA6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LXh1LW9zcGYtaXB2Ni1yb3V0ZXItaWQtMDAp IGlzIHZlcnkgc2ltcGxlOiB0aGUgSVB2NiBJU0lTfE9TUEYgY2FwYWJpbGl0eSBUTFYvUkktTFNB IHdoaWNoIGFyZSB1c2VkIGZvciBhZHZlcnRpc2luZyByb3V0ZXIgY2FwYWJpbGl0aWVzIGNhbiBi ZSBmbG9vZGVkIGFjcm9zcyBhcmVhcywgaG93ZXZlciwgb25seSBhIDQtb2N0ZWN0IHJvdXRlciBJ 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nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.40) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 9 May 2014 01:53:30 +0100 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.115]) by nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 9 May 2014 08:53:27 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Anton Smirnov Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W09TUEZdIOetlOWkjTogIOetlOWkjTogW0lzaXMtd2ddIFtzdW5zZXQ0XSAg?= =?utf-8?Q?_IPv6_router_IDs?= Thread-Index: AQHPaszAZ+MqL81gOE6aeUtkjcsikZs3Z9yQ Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 00:53:26 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270C0C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0827025D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536B9971.4080700@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <536B9971.4080700@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/NEwTg7ElI5U8rJOy44dv57Gb4yY Cc: "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" , "George, Wes" , joel jaeggli , OSPF List , "sunset4@ietf.org" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] =?utf-8?b?W09TUEZdIOetlOWkjTogIOetlOWkjTogW0lzaXMtd2dd?= =?utf-8?q?____IPv6_router_IDs?= X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 00:53:44 -0000 SGkgQW50b24sDQoNCldoZW4gSVNJUyBjYXBhYmlsaXR5IFRMVnMgYXJlIGZsb29kZWQgYWNyb3Nz IGFyZWFzLCByb3V0ZXJzIGluIG9uZSBhcmVhIG1heSBuZWVkIHRvIGVzdGFibGlzaCBjb3JyZWxh dGlvbnMgYmV0d2VlbiBJUCBhZGRyZXNzZXMgYW5kIGNhcGFiaWxpdGllcyBvZiByb3V0ZXJzIGlu 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IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+ID4+Pj4+ IHN1bnNldDQgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4+Pj4+IHN1bnNldDRAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gPj4+Pj4g aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9zdW5zZXQ0DQo+ID4+Pj4+DQo+ ID4+Pj4NCj4gPj4+DQo+ID4+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+Pj4gT1NQRiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPj4+IE9TUEZAaWV0Zi5vcmcN Cj4gPj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vb3NwZg0KPiA+DQo+ ID4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiBP U1BGIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiA+IE9TUEZAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRm Lm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL29zcGYNCj4gPg0K From nobody Fri May 9 01:58:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FC8D1A0041; Fri, 9 May 2014 01:58:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.303 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.303 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id neOm5w_YvIFX; Fri, 9 May 2014 01:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linfre.de (linfre.de [83.151.26.85]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23F891A0205; Fri, 9 May 2014 01:58:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.43.66.140] (194.163.249.24) by linfreserv.linfre (Axigen) with (AES256-SHA encrypted) ESMTPSA id 157F61; Fri, 9 May 2014 10:57:54 +0200 Message-ID: <536C9892.50107@linfre.de> Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 10:57:54 +0200 From: Karsten Thomann User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Xuxiaohu , Anton Smirnov References: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0827025D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536B9971.4080700@cisco.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270C0C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270C0C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AXIGEN-DK-Result: No records DomainKey-Status: no signature X-AxigenSpam-Level: 4 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/DohplH1v2Gi73yfz6h1qkCbEV-U Cc: "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "George, Wes" , "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" , joel jaeggli , OSPF List , "sunset4@ietf.org" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] =?utf-8?b?W09TUEZdIOetlOWkjTogIOetlOWkjTogW0lzaXMtd2dd?= =?utf-8?q?____IPv6_router_IDs?= X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 08:58:12 -0000 Hi Xiaohu, I think I've understand your problem now, but please don't call it a Router ID, the router ID must not be an IP address. To avoid any confusion about it please call it a router ip or router address within the TLV. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand your drafts right you're not requesting a real IPv6 Router ID instead of the (arbitrary) 32bit ID, but a simple TLV to carry the routable IPv6 address of the router which advertises the capability. If I understand it right, we should maybe fix the text of the other rfc to refect that it is an routable IP address, instead of a (possible) arbitrary but unique Router ID. Kind regards Karsten Am 09.05.2014 02:53, schrieb Xuxiaohu: > Hi Anton, > > When ISIS capability TLVs are flooded across areas, routers in one area may need to establish correlations between IP addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. For example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a L3VPN session with IS-IS router B in another area. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B via a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B (identified by an IP address) has the ELC (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet. In such case, it needs to contain at least one routable IP address in the capability TLV which has been flooded across area boundaries. In the IPv4 network, the 4-octect router ID field could contain such routable IPv4 address. However, in the IPv6 network, there is no counterpart field to contain a routable IPv6 address. > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > >> -----邮件原件----- >> 发件人: Anton Smirnov [mailto:asmirnov@cisco.com] >> 发送时间: 2014年5月8日 22:49 >> 收件人: Xuxiaohu >> 抄送: isis-wg@ietf.org; George, Wes; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; joel jaeggli; >> OSPF List; sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >> 主题: Re: [OSPF] 答复: 答复: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >> >> Hello Xiaohu, >> this whole thread started from George Wes stating that even in pure >> IPv4 world Router ID in many protocols is NOT an IPv4 address. For convenience >> it frequently is but on the binary scale "ID guaranteed to be routable IPv4 >> address"/"ID is just a number" - the Router ID is NOT an IPv4 address. >> >> So, before you convince people that IPv6 Rtr ID is needed you must start >> from discussing when and why Router ID is being used as IPv4 address in pure >> IPv4 world. I believe this in other words is what Acee asking you. >> >> Anton >> >> >> On 05/07/2014 03:10 AM, Xuxiaohu wrote: >>> Hi Acee, >>> >>> The motivation for these two drafts >> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is very simple: the >> IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used for advertising router >> capabilities can be flooded across areas, however, only a 4-octect router ID is >> carried in them. As a result, it’s hard for routers in one area to establish >> correlations between IPv6 addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. >> For example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a L3VPN session >> with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6 addresses. When router >> A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B via a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants >> to know whether router B has the ELC >> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before inserting an EL into >> the MPLS-SR packet . However, the Capability TLV originated by router B >> doesn’t carried an IPv6 address of its own. As a result, it ! >> s hard fo >> r router A to know the ELC of router B. >>> Best regards, >>> Xiaohu >>> >>>> -----邮件原件----- >>>> 发件人: Acee Lindem [mailto:acee@lindem.com] >>>> 发送时间: 2014年5月6日 21:14 >>>> 收件人: Xuxiaohu >>>> 抄送: joel jaeggli; Acee Lindem; George, Wes; sunset4@ietf.org; OSPF >>>> List; isis-wg@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; >>>> lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >>>> 主题: Re: [OSPF] 答复: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 5, 2014, at 9:48 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -----邮件原件----- >>>>>> 发件人: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 joel jaeggli >>>>>> 发送时间: 2014年5月5日 23:55 >>>>>> 收件人: Acee Lindem; Xuxiaohu; George, Wes >>>>>> 抄送: ospf@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; isis-wg@ietf.org; >>>>>> sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >>>>>> 主题: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/5/14, 9:28 AM, Acee Lindem wrote: >>>>>>> Xiaohu – what are precisely the situations that you think you need >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> IPv6 address? >>>>>>> Acee >>>>>> if you're using router-id's as equivalency as an ipv4 unicast addresses. >>>>>> you're doing so at your peril because there is zero assurance that >>>>>> those actually map. the first time you have a router id of >>>>>> 11100000000000000000000000000101 well bummer. >>>>> The IPv6 router ID sub-TLV of the ISIS router capability TLV must >>>>> carry a >>>> "routable" IPv6 address. If the name of the sub-TLV seems confusing, >>>> it can be changed to IPv6 address sub-TLV. >>>> >>>> Independent of what you call it, you didn’t answer my question. Other >>>> than TE, what the use cases where it is needed? >>>> >>>> Acee >>>> >>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Xiaohu >>>>> >>>>>> I don't find the embedding of semantic meaning in router-ids to be >>>>>> more compelling then it was in ip addresses. >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Xuxiaohu >>> > >>>>>>> Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:29 AM >>>>>>> To: "George, Wes" >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cc: OSPF - OSPF WG List >, >>>>>>> "isis-wg@ietf.org " >>>>>> >, "fanpeng@chinamobile.com >>>>>>> " >>>>>> >, "sunset4@ietf.org >>>>>>> " >>>>>> >, "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >>>>>> " >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Wes, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for pointing out these two drafts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The motivation for these two drafts >>>>>>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and >>>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is very >>>>>>> simple: the IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used for >>>>>>> advertising router capabilities can be flooded across areas, >>>>>>> however, only a 4-octect router ID is carried in them. As a result, >>>>>>> it’s hard for routers in one area to establish correlations between >>>>>>> IPv6 addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. For >>>>>>> example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a L3VPN >>>>>>> session with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6 >>>>>>> addresses. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B >> via >>>>>>> a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B has >> the >>>>>>> ELC (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before >>>>>>> >>>>>>> inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet . However, the Capability >>>>>>> TLV originated by router B doesn’t carried an IPv6 address of its >>>>>>> own. As a result, it’s hard for router A to know the ELC of router B. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Xiaohu >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *发件人:*George, Wes [mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com] >>>>>>> *发送时间:*2014年5月2日1:51 >>>>>>> *收件人:*Xuxiaohu >>>>>>> *抄送:*sunset4@ietf.org ; >>>>>>> fanpeng@chinamobile.com ; >>>>>>> lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >> >>>>>>> *主题:*Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I got a bounce-back on all 3 draft aliases, trying again with the >>>>>>> authors’s email addresses directly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From: *, "George, Wes" >>>>>> > >>>>>>> *Date: *Thursday, May 1, 2014 at 1:42 PM >>>>>>> *To: *"draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org >>>>>>> " >>>>>>> >>>>>> >, >>>>>>> "draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org >>>>>>> " >>>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>>> *Cc: *"draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org >>>>>>> " >>>>>>> >>>>>> >, >>>>>>> "sunset4@ietf.org " >>>>>> > >>>>>>> *Subject: *[sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I see that you have submitted two drafts for IPv6 router IDs in ISIS >>>>>>> and OSPF, noting that the existing router ID is only 4 octets. This >>>>>>> has also come up in IDR for BGP. The authors of that draft are >>>>>>> copied. I’ll give you a similar set of feedback to what I gave >>>>>>> them - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is important to distinguish between places where a unique >>>>>>> identifier is needed, and by *convention* an IPv4 address assigned >>>>>>> to the device has been used to provide that unique ID, vs. places >>>>>>> where the actual IP address has some sort of importance to the >>>>>>> protocol (I.e. That information must be available to take action on). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In other words, is the protocol requirement that the ID be unique >>>>>>> across some domain, but that the actual value does not matter, or is >>>>>>> the protocol requirement that the value must correspond to >> something >>>>>>> on the router? In many of the former cases, the fact that the value >>>>>>> isn’t relevant has been used to make recommendations that are >> easier >>>>>>> for humans to deal with (I.e. Tying the router ID to an IP address) >>>>>>> but that value as a human-readable set of info does not necessarily >>>>>>> justify changes to the protocol to support that convention as we >>>>>>> move to IPv6. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would argue that the router ID used in routing protocols must >>>>>>> merely be unique, but it doesn’t have to be an IP address at all. >>>>>>> Thus it is not strictly necessary to create a new field to carry >>>>>>> IPv6 addresses when operating without IPv4 addresses on a >> network. >>>>>>> If you believe otherwise, the justification needs to be documented >>>>>>> in the draft. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are many places in IETF protocols where a 32 bit unique >>>>>>> identifier is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address has been >>>>>>> used. It would be far more useful to write a general draft >>>>>>> identifying this problem and discussing several solutions, including >>>>>>> simply generating unique IDs manually, systematically generating a >>>>>>> random ID, etc. the place for such a draft may be in Sunset4, >>>>>>> either as a part of the existing gap analysis draft or as another >>>>>>> standalone draft. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There was rather a long discussion about this on IDR, thread >>>>>>> here: >>>>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?qdr=a&email_list=idr&q=% >>>>>>> 22 >>>>>>> %5 >>>>>>> Bidr%5D+%5Bv6ops%5D+BGP+Identifier%22&as=1&gbt=1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And in the IDR meeting, minutes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/minutes/minutes-89-idr (see >>>>>>> page 11) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I’d encourage the authors of these drafts to work together on this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wes George >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anything below this line has been added by my company’s mail >> server, >>>>>>> I have no control over it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----------- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner >> Cable >>>>>>> proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or >>>>>>> subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is >>>>>>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it >>>>>>> is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, >>>>>>> you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, >>>>>>> copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and >>>>>>> attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be >>>>>>> unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify >>>>>>> the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and >> any >>>>>>> copy of this E-mail and any printout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> sunset4 mailing list >>>>>>> sunset4@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 >>>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> OSPF mailing list >>>>> OSPF@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSPF mailing list >>> OSPF@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>> > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf From nobody Fri May 9 02:32:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com 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DQo+ID4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4g PiBPU1BGIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiA+IE9TUEZAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5p ZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL29zcGYNCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IElzaXMtd2cgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IElz aXMtd2dAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9p c2lzLXdnDQo= From nobody Fri May 9 02:49:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE1911A023F; Fri, 9 May 2014 02:49:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.303 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.303 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ilDUIpnYDjM7; Fri, 9 May 2014 02:49:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from linfre.de (linfre.de [83.151.26.85]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A557A1A0237; Fri, 9 May 2014 02:49:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.43.66.140] (194.163.249.24) by linfreserv.linfre (Axigen) with (AES256-SHA encrypted) ESMTPSA id 394318; Fri, 9 May 2014 11:49:29 +0200 Message-ID: <536CA4AA.20107@linfre.de> Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 11:49:30 +0200 From: Karsten Thomann User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Xuxiaohu , Anton Smirnov References: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0827025D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536B9971.4080700@cisco.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270C0C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536C9892.50107@linfre.de> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270D2D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270D2D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AXIGEN-DK-Result: No records DomainKey-Status: no signature X-AxigenSpam-Level: 4 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/dLhoY1so8GtyWSei_VMNP7pv9VM Cc: "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" , "George, Wes" , joel jaeggli , OSPF List , "sunset4@ietf.org" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] =?utf-8?b?W0lzaXMtd2ddIFtPU1BGXSDnrZTlpI06ICDnrZTlpI06?= =?utf-8?q?_____IPv6_router_IDs?= X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 09:49:46 -0000 Hi Xuxiaohu, I think that the question of the purpose of the drafts is clear now and I hope George can confirm it. The problem I would like to get addressed is the term Router ID in the drafts, as the Router ID is not necessarily a routable address, if possible with an update to the rfc also for the IPv4 "Router ID" in the TLV... Or do you (or someone else) have any objections or problems with a change of the term to clarify that it is not the router ID? Kind regards Am 09.05.2014 11:31, schrieb Xuxiaohu: > Hi Karsten, > > Your understanding is completely correct. > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > >> -----邮件原件----- >> 发件人: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 Karsten Thomann >> 发送时间: 2014年5月9日 16:58 >> 收件人: Xuxiaohu; Anton Smirnov >> 抄送: isis-wg@ietf.org; George, Wes; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; joel jaeggli; >> OSPF List; sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >> 主题: Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] 答复: 答复: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >> >> Hi Xiaohu, >> >> I think I've understand your problem now, but please don't call it a Router ID, the >> router ID must not be an IP address. >> To avoid any confusion about it please call it a router ip or router address within >> the TLV. >> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand your drafts right you're not >> requesting a real IPv6 Router ID instead of the (arbitrary) 32bit ID, but a simple >> TLV to carry the routable IPv6 address of the router which advertises the >> capability. >> >> If I understand it right, we should maybe fix the text of the other rfc to refect >> that it is an routable IP address, instead of a (possible) arbitrary but unique >> Router ID. >> >> Kind regards >> Karsten >> >> Am 09.05.2014 02:53, schrieb Xuxiaohu: >>> Hi Anton, >>> >>> When ISIS capability TLVs are flooded across areas, routers in one area may >> need to establish correlations between IP addresses and capabilities of routers in >> another area. For example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a >> L3VPN session with IS-IS router B in another area. When router A needs to send >> L3VPN traffic to router B via a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether >> router B (identified by an IP address) has the ELC >> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before inserting an EL into >> the MPLS-SR packet. In such case, it needs to contain at least one routable IP >> address in the capability TLV which has been flooded across area boundaries. In >> the IPv4 network, the 4-octect router ID field could contain such routable IPv4 >> address. However, in the IPv6 network, there is no counterpart field to contain a >> routable IPv6 address. >>> Best regards, >>> Xiaohu >>> >>>> -----邮件原件----- >>>> 发件人: Anton Smirnov [mailto:asmirnov@cisco.com] >>>> 发送时间: 2014年5月8日 22:49 >>>> 收件人: Xuxiaohu >>>> 抄送: isis-wg@ietf.org; George, Wes; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; joel >>>> jaeggli; OSPF List; sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >>>> 主题: Re: [OSPF] 答复: 答复: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>> >>>> Hello Xiaohu, >>>> this whole thread started from George Wes stating that even in >>>> pure >>>> IPv4 world Router ID in many protocols is NOT an IPv4 address. For >>>> convenience it frequently is but on the binary scale "ID guaranteed >>>> to be routable IPv4 address"/"ID is just a number" - the Router ID is NOT an >> IPv4 address. >>>> So, before you convince people that IPv6 Rtr ID is needed you >>>> must start from discussing when and why Router ID is being used as >>>> IPv4 address in pure >>>> IPv4 world. I believe this in other words is what Acee asking you. >>>> >>>> Anton >>>> >>>> >>>> On 05/07/2014 03:10 AM, Xuxiaohu wrote: >>>>> Hi Acee, >>>>> >>>>> The motivation for these two drafts >>>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and >>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is very >>>> simple: the >>>> IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used for advertising >>>> router capabilities can be flooded across areas, however, only a >>>> 4-octect router ID is carried in them. As a result, it’s hard for >>>> routers in one area to establish correlations between IPv6 addresses and >> capabilities of routers in another area. >>>> For example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a >>>> L3VPN session with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6 >>>> addresses. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B via >>>> a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B has the ELC >>>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before >>>> inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet . However, the Capability TLV >>>> originated by router B doesn’t carried an IPv6 address of its own. As a result, >> it ! >>>> s hard fo >>>> r router A to know the ELC of router B. >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Xiaohu >>>>> >>>>>> -----邮件原件----- >>>>>> 发件人: Acee Lindem [mailto:acee@lindem.com] >>>>>> 发送时间: 2014年5月6日 21:14 >>>>>> 收件人: Xuxiaohu >>>>>> 抄送: joel jaeggli; Acee Lindem; George, Wes; sunset4@ietf.org; OSPF >>>>>> List; isis-wg@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; >>>>>> lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >>>>>> 主题: Re: [OSPF] 答复: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 5, 2014, at 9:48 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----邮件原件----- >>>>>>>> 发件人: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 joel jaeggli >>>>>>>> 发送时间: 2014年5月5日 23:55 >>>>>>>> 收件人: Acee Lindem; Xuxiaohu; George, Wes >>>>>>>> 抄送: ospf@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; isis-wg@ietf.org; >>>>>>>> sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >>>>>>>> 主题: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 5/5/14, 9:28 AM, Acee Lindem wrote: >>>>>>>>> Xiaohu – what are precisely the situations that you think you >>>>>>>>> need this >>>>>>>>> IPv6 address? >>>>>>>>> Acee >>>>>>>> if you're using router-id's as equivalency as an ipv4 unicast addresses. >>>>>>>> you're doing so at your peril because there is zero assurance >>>>>>>> that those actually map. the first time you have a router id of >>>>>>>> 11100000000000000000000000000101 well bummer. >>>>>>> The IPv6 router ID sub-TLV of the ISIS router capability TLV must >>>>>>> carry a >>>>>> "routable" IPv6 address. If the name of the sub-TLV seems >>>>>> confusing, it can be changed to IPv6 address sub-TLV. >>>>>> >>>>>> Independent of what you call it, you didn’t answer my question. >>>>>> Other than TE, what the use cases where it is needed? >>>>>> >>>>>> Acee >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> Xiaohu >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't find the embedding of semantic meaning in router-ids to >>>>>>>> be more compelling then it was in ip addresses. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: Xuxiaohu >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:29 AM >>>>>>>>> To: "George, Wes" >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cc: OSPF - OSPF WG List >, >>>>>>>>> "isis-wg@ietf.org " >>>>>>>> >, "fanpeng@chinamobile.com >>>>>>>>> " >>>>>>>> >, "sunset4@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> " >>>>>>>> >, "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >>>>>>>> " >>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Wes, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for pointing out these two drafts. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The motivation for these two drafts >>>>>>>>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and >>>>>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is >> very >>>>>>>>> simple: the IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used >> for >>>>>>>>> advertising router capabilities can be flooded across areas, >>>>>>>>> however, only a 4-octect router ID is carried in them. As a result, >>>>>>>>> it’s hard for routers in one area to establish correlations >> between >>>>>>>>> IPv6 addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. For >>>>>>>>> example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a >> L3VPN >>>>>>>>> session with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6 >>>>>>>>> addresses. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to >>>>>>>>> router B >>>> via >>>>>>>>> a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B >>>>>>>>> has >>>> the >>>>>>>>> ELC (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet . However, the >> Capability >>>>>>>>> TLV originated by router B doesn’t carried an IPv6 address of its >>>>>>>>> own. As a result, it’s hard for router A to know the ELC of >> router B. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Xiaohu >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *发件人:*George, Wes [mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com] >>>>>>>>> *发送时间:*2014年5月2日1:51 >>>>>>>>> *收件人:*Xuxiaohu >>>>>>>>> *抄送:*sunset4@ietf.org ; >>>>>>>>> fanpeng@chinamobile.com >> ; >>>>>>>>> lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >>>> >>>>>>>>> *主题:*Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I got a bounce-back on all 3 draft aliases, trying again with the >>>>>>>>> authors’s email addresses directly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *From: *, "George, Wes" >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> *Date: *Thursday, May 1, 2014 at 1:42 PM >>>>>>>>> *To: *"draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org >>>>>>>>> " >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >, >>>>>>>>> "draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org >>>>>>>>> " >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> *Cc: *"draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org >>>>>>>>> " >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >, >>>>>>>>> "sunset4@ietf.org " >> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> *Subject: *[sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I see that you have submitted two drafts for IPv6 router IDs in >> ISIS >>>>>>>>> and OSPF, noting that the existing router ID is only 4 octets. This >>>>>>>>> has also come up in IDR for BGP. The authors of that draft are >>>>>>>>> copied. I’ll give you a similar set of feedback to what I >>>>>>>>> gave them - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is important to distinguish between places where a unique >>>>>>>>> identifier is needed, and by *convention* an IPv4 address >> assigned >>>>>>>>> to the device has been used to provide that unique ID, vs. places >>>>>>>>> where the actual IP address has some sort of importance to the >>>>>>>>> protocol (I.e. That information must be available to take action >> on). >>>>>>>>> In other words, is the protocol requirement that the ID be >> unique >>>>>>>>> across some domain, but that the actual value does not matter, >> or is >>>>>>>>> the protocol requirement that the value must correspond to >>>> something >>>>>>>>> on the router? In many of the former cases, the fact that the >> value >>>>>>>>> isn’t relevant has been used to make recommendations that >>>>>>>>> are >>>> easier >>>>>>>>> for humans to deal with (I.e. Tying the router ID to an IP >> address) >>>>>>>>> but that value as a human-readable set of info does not >> necessarily >>>>>>>>> justify changes to the protocol to support that convention as >> we >>>>>>>>> move to IPv6. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would argue that the router ID used in routing protocols must >>>>>>>>> merely be unique, but it doesn’t have to be an IP address at all. >>>>>>>>> Thus it is not strictly necessary to create a new field to carry >>>>>>>>> IPv6 addresses when operating without IPv4 addresses on a >>>> network. >>>>>>>>> If you believe otherwise, the justification needs to be >> documented >>>>>>>>> in the draft. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There are many places in IETF protocols where a 32 bit unique >>>>>>>>> identifier is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address has >> been >>>>>>>>> used. It would be far more useful to write a general draft >>>>>>>>> identifying this problem and discussing several solutions, >> including >>>>>>>>> simply generating unique IDs manually, systematically >> generating a >>>>>>>>> random ID, etc. the place for such a draft may be in Sunset4, >>>>>>>>> either as a part of the existing gap analysis draft or as another >>>>>>>>> standalone draft. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There was rather a long discussion about this on IDR, thread >>>>>>>>> here: >>>>>>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?qdr=a&email_list=idr&q >>>>>>>>> =% >>>>>>>>> 22 >>>>>>>>> %5 >>>>>>>>> Bidr%5D+%5Bv6ops%5D+BGP+Identifier%22&as=1&gbt=1 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And in the IDR meeting, minutes: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/minutes/minutes-89-idr >>>>>>>>> (see page 11) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I’d encourage the authors of these drafts to work together on >> this. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Wes George >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Anything below this line has been added by my company’s >>>>>>>>> mail >>>> server, >>>>>>>>> I have no control over it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time >>>>>>>>> Warner >>>> Cable >>>>>>>>> proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or >>>>>>>>> subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This >> E-mail is >>>>>>>>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it >>>>>>>>> is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, >>>>>>>>> you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, >>>>>>>>> copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and >>>>>>>>> attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be >>>>>>>>> unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify >>>>>>>>> the sender immediately and permanently delete the original >>>>>>>>> and >>>> any >>>>>>>>> copy of this E-mail and any printout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> sunset4 mailing list >>>>>>>>> sunset4@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> OSPF mailing list >>>>>>> OSPF@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> OSPF mailing list >>>>> OSPF@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSPF mailing list >>> OSPF@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf >> _______________________________________________ >> Isis-wg mailing list >> Isis-wg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg From nobody Fri May 9 02:57:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 184B51A023F; Fri, 9 May 2014 02:57:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.952 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.952 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vUpG0SWoxkX4; Fri, 9 May 2014 02:57:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39D2B1A0268; Fri, 9 May 2014 02:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BGO28657; Fri, 09 May 2014 09:57:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 9 May 2014 10:55:24 +0100 Received: from nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.40) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 9 May 2014 10:57:06 +0100 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.115]) by nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 9 May 2014 17:57:00 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Karsten Thomann , Anton Smirnov Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W0lzaXMtd2ddIFtPU1BGXSDnrZTlpI06ICDnrZTlpI06ICBbc3Vuc2V0NF0g?= =?utf-8?Q?__IPv6_router_IDs?= Thread-Index: AQHPa2TU0KeJfDl/fkGY3udMB/Ik+Zs3+2mQ//9/owCAAIayEA== Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 09:56:59 +0000 Message-ID: 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"lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: [sunset4] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBbSXNpcy13Z10gW09TUEZdIOetlOWkjTog?= =?utf-8?b?IOetlOWkjTogICAgIElQdjYgcm91dGVyIElEcw==?= X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 09:57:30 -0000 SGkgS2Fyc3RlbiwNCg0KVGhlIHRlcm0gInJvdXRhYmxlIElQIGFkZHJlc3MgIiBsb29rcyBnb29k IHRvIG1lLiANCg0KQmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLA0KWGlhb2h1IA0KDQo+IC0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2 LS0tLS0NCj4g5Y+R5Lu25Lq6OiBLYXJzdGVuIFRob21hbm4gW21haWx0bzprYXJzdGVuX3Rob21h bm5AbGluZnJlLmRlXQ0KPiDlj5HpgIHml7bpl7Q6IDIwMTTlubQ15pyIOeaXpSAxNzo1MA0KPiDm lLbku7bkuro6IFh1eGlhb2h1OyBBbnRvbiBTbWlybm92DQo+IOaKhOmAgTogaXNpcy13Z0BpZXRm Lm9yZzsgR2VvcmdlLCBXZXM7IGZhbnBlbmdAY2hpbmFtb2JpbGUuY29tOyBqb2VsIGphZWdnbGk7 DQo+IE9TUEYgTGlzdDsgc3Vuc2V0NEBpZXRmLm9yZzsgbGl6aGVucWlhbmdAY2hpbmFtb2JpbGUu 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sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A718F1A028A; Fri, 9 May 2014 05:11:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h5qTw3OYCz_p; Fri, 9 May 2014 05:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B93921A0289; Fri, 9 May 2014 05:11:33 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-f79c96d000001cfc-e8-536c76d4f9a0 Received: from EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.81]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id F6.1C.07420.4D67C635; Fri, 9 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X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.12] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrJIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPoO7Vspxgg/tH+C1atrFarG94wW5x 9NB7VotXp9YwWmy5dZTJ4uui2UwWLffusVus3LOf3WLJ5uusFlvPr2J04PI4e2QBo8e8CwvZ PKb83sjq0XLkLavHkiU/mTweHjzE7rF6zSuWAPYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsErow7bZeZCu5sY6zY ceMDSwNjyybGLkZODgkBE4l32/ewQdhiEhfurQeyuTiEBI4ySkya0soM4SxjlFg8awsTSBWb gI7E80f/mEFsEQEliVvnN7OCFDELNDJL/NjxDiwhLFAqsfzvPTaIojKJ15uvQjU4SbTd2MgC YrMIqEi0bjzMCmLzCthL/LqxmRFi2xdmiTsTr4A1cAqESTw+eA5sECPQfd9PrQG7gllAXOLW k/lMEHcLSCzZc54ZwhaVePn4HyuErSQx5/U1oDgHUL2mxPpd+hCmtcSibzkQUxQlpnQ/ZIc4 QVDi5MwnLBMYxWchWTALoXkWQvMsJM2zkDQvYGRdxchRWpxalptuZLCJERjXxyTYdHcw7nlp eYhRgINRiYd3QWh2sBBrYllxZe4hRmkOFiVx3oIvscFCAumJJanZqakFqUXxRaU5qcWHGJk4 OKUaGJ1F/+SYZ9h/Z/z/f9H9Czp9d25tmbvkkGph8SvbGzUL7e/+022bmbNzzTpGl2VMep5O 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cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pc2lzLXdnDQoNCg== From nobody Fri May 9 14:08:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 795811A00D5; Fri, 9 May 2014 13:55:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jcFTuJ68PhNy; Fri, 9 May 2014 13:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EED81A00C3; Fri, 9 May 2014 13:55:54 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f799b6d000000b0f-c4-536cef44b3c8 Received: from 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4+IE9TUEYgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0 DQo+Pj4gT1NQRkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vb3NwZg0KPj4gDQo+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4gSXNpcy13ZyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4+IElzaXMtd2dAaWV0Zi5vcmcN Cj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaXNpcy13Zw0KPiBfX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBJc2lzLXdnIG1h aWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBJc2lzLXdnQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaXNpcy13Zw0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KSXNpcy13ZyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCklzaXMtd2dAaWV0Zi5vcmcN Cmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaXNpcy13Zw0K From nobody Fri May 9 14:08:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74C9F1A0078; Thu, 8 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b=O9eqD+b78yjSdW5uL5YAv+GnhU/9pJESXhXDPuNsciuuStbuMb8noruu BOq8AEg8S+8Z2jx6I6qnyXqLuc6HxmbZD78LZewXXs8D+LFpb6GukITNC MU3D5h96JDht6VVplEpexJXpsk72afVekqspsFn00MILVDcznCWl+RR2O w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqcEAPGYa1OtJssW/2dsb2JhbABZg1WDP7s+hmtRAYEpdIIlAQEBBAEBASAPAQUvBwQGARAJAhEDAQIBAgIFFggDAgIJAwIBAgEVHwYDCAYNAQUCAQEFEogmDY8enB6kUheBKoxGEAIBSgUHgnSBSwEDlH2EO4E8kT+DODs X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,1010,1389744000"; d="scan'208";a="41976873" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 May 2014 14:49:26 +0000 Received: from as-lnx.cisco.com (ams-asmirnov-8714.cisco.com [10.55.140.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s48EnLWc004326 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 8 May 2014 14:49:24 GMT Message-ID: <536B9971.4080700@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 16:49:21 +0200 From: Anton Smirnov Organization: Cisco Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Xuxiaohu References: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0827025D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0827025D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Authenticated-User: asmirnov Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/y0GzNn4V5Xg9N8srBR1hutXjMAQ X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 09 May 2014 14:07:40 -0700 Cc: "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" , "George, Wes" , joel jaeggli , OSPF List , "sunset4@ietf.org" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] =?utf-8?b?W09TUEZdIOetlOWkjTogIOetlOWkjTogW0lzaXMtd2dd?= =?utf-8?q?____IPv6_router_IDs?= X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 May 2014 14:49:34 -0000 Hello Xiaohu, this whole thread started from George Wes stating that even in pure IPv4 world Router ID in many protocols is NOT an IPv4 address. For convenience it frequently is but on the binary scale "ID guaranteed to be routable IPv4 address"/"ID is just a number" - the Router ID is NOT an IPv4 address. So, before you convince people that IPv6 Rtr ID is needed you must start from discussing when and why Router ID is being used as IPv4 address in pure IPv4 world. I believe this in other words is what Acee asking you. Anton On 05/07/2014 03:10 AM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > Hi Acee, > > The motivation for these two drafts (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is very simple: the IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used for advertising router capabilities can be flooded across areas, however, only a 4-octect router ID is carried in them. As a result, it’s hard for routers in one area to establish correlations between IPv6 addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. For example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a L3VPN session with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6 addresses. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B via a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B has the ELC (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet . However, the Capability TLV originated by router B doesn’t carried an IPv6 address of its own. As a result, it’s hard f o r router A to know the ELC of router B. > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > >> -----邮件原件----- >> 发件人: Acee Lindem [mailto:acee@lindem.com] >> 发送时间: 2014年5月6日 21:14 >> 收件人: Xuxiaohu >> 抄送: joel jaeggli; Acee Lindem; George, Wes; sunset4@ietf.org; OSPF List; >> isis-wg@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >> 主题: Re: [OSPF] 答复: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >> >> >> On May 5, 2014, at 9:48 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>> -----邮件原件----- >>>> 发件人: Isis-wg [mailto:isis-wg-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 joel jaeggli >>>> 发送时间: 2014年5月5日 23:55 >>>> 收件人: Acee Lindem; Xuxiaohu; George, Wes >>>> 抄送: ospf@ietf.org; fanpeng@chinamobile.com; isis-wg@ietf.org; >>>> sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >>>> 主题: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>> >>>> On 5/5/14, 9:28 AM, Acee Lindem wrote: >>>>> Xiaohu – what are precisely the situations that you think you need >>>>> this >>>>> IPv6 address? >>>>> Acee >>>> >>>> if you're using router-id's as equivalency as an ipv4 unicast addresses. >>>> you're doing so at your peril because there is zero assurance that >>>> those actually map. the first time you have a router id of >>>> 11100000000000000000000000000101 well bummer. >>> >>> The IPv6 router ID sub-TLV of the ISIS router capability TLV must carry a >> "routable" IPv6 address. If the name of the sub-TLV seems confusing, it can be >> changed to IPv6 address sub-TLV. >> >> Independent of what you call it, you didn’t answer my question. Other than TE, >> what the use cases where it is needed? >> >> Acee >> >> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Xiaohu >>> >>>> I don't find the embedding of semantic meaning in router-ids to be >>>> more compelling then it was in ip addresses. >>>> >>>>> From: Xuxiaohu > > >>>>> Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:29 AM >>>>> To: "George, Wes" >>>> > >>>>> Cc: OSPF - OSPF WG List >, >>>>> "isis-wg@ietf.org " >>>> >, "fanpeng@chinamobile.com >>>>> " >>>> >, "sunset4@ietf.org >>>>> " >>>> >, "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >>>> " >>>>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>>> >>>>> Hi Wes, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for pointing out these two drafts. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The motivation for these two drafts >>>>> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id-00 and >>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id-00) is very >>>>> simple: the IPv6 ISIS|OSPF capability TLV/RI-LSA which are used for >>>>> advertising router capabilities can be flooded across areas, >>>>> however, only a 4-octect router ID is carried in them. As a result, >>>>> it’s hard for routers in one area to establish correlations between >>>>> IPv6 addresses and capabilities of routers in another area. For >>>>> example, assume IS-IS router A in one area has established a L3VPN >>>>> session with IS-IS router B in another area over their own IPv6 >>>>> addresses. When router A needs to send L3VPN traffic to router B via >>>>> a MPLS-SR tunnel, router A wants to know whether router B has the >>>>> ELC (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-isis-mpls-elc-00) before >>>>> >>>>> inserting an EL into the MPLS-SR packet . However, the Capability >>>>> TLV originated by router B doesn’t carried an IPv6 address of its >>>>> own. As a result, it’s hard for router A to know the ELC of router B. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Xiaohu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *发件人:*George, Wes [mailto:wesley.george@twcable.com] >>>>> *发送时间:*2014年5月2日1:51 >>>>> *收件人:*Xuxiaohu >>>>> *抄送:*sunset4@ietf.org ; >>>>> fanpeng@chinamobile.com ; >>>>> lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >>>>> *主题:*Re: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I got a bounce-back on all 3 draft aliases, trying again with the >>>>> authors’s email addresses directly. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From: *, "George, Wes" >>>> > >>>>> *Date: *Thursday, May 1, 2014 at 1:42 PM >>>>> *To: *"draft-xu-isis-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org >>>>> " >>>>> >>>> >, >>>>> "draft-xu-ospf-ipv6-router-id@tools.ietf.org >>>>> " >>>>> >>>> > >>>>> *Cc: *"draft-fan-idr-ipv6-bgp-id@tools.ietf.org >>>>> " >>>>> >>>> >, >>>>> "sunset4@ietf.org " >>>> > >>>>> *Subject: *[sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I see that you have submitted two drafts for IPv6 router IDs in ISIS >>>>> and OSPF, noting that the existing router ID is only 4 octets. This >>>>> has also come up in IDR for BGP. The authors of that draft are >>>>> copied. I’ll give you a similar set of feedback to what I gave >>>>> them - >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It is important to distinguish between places where a unique >>>>> identifier is needed, and by *convention* an IPv4 address assigned >>>>> to the device has been used to provide that unique ID, vs. places >>>>> where the actual IP address has some sort of importance to the >>>>> protocol (I.e. That information must be available to take action on). >>>>> >>>>> In other words, is the protocol requirement that the ID be unique >>>>> across some domain, but that the actual value does not matter, or is >>>>> the protocol requirement that the value must correspond to something >>>>> on the router? In many of the former cases, the fact that the value >>>>> isn’t relevant has been used to make recommendations that are easier >>>>> for humans to deal with (I.e. Tying the router ID to an IP address) >>>>> but that value as a human-readable set of info does not necessarily >>>>> justify changes to the protocol to support that convention as we >>>>> move to IPv6. >>>>> >>>>> I would argue that the router ID used in routing protocols must >>>>> merely be unique, but it doesn’t have to be an IP address at all. >>>>> Thus it is not strictly necessary to create a new field to carry >>>>> IPv6 addresses when operating without IPv4 addresses on a network. >>>>> If you believe otherwise, the justification needs to be documented >>>>> in the draft. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There are many places in IETF protocols where a 32 bit unique >>>>> identifier is needed, and by convention an IPv4 address has been >>>>> used. It would be far more useful to write a general draft >>>>> identifying this problem and discussing several solutions, including >>>>> simply generating unique IDs manually, systematically generating a >>>>> random ID, etc. the place for such a draft may be in Sunset4, >>>>> either as a part of the existing gap analysis draft or as another >>>>> standalone draft. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There was rather a long discussion about this on IDR, thread >>>>> here: >>>>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?qdr=a&email_list=idr&q=%22 >>>>> %5 >>>>> Bidr%5D+%5Bv6ops%5D+BGP+Identifier%22&as=1&gbt=1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> And in the IDR meeting, minutes: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/minutes/minutes-89-idr (see >>>>> page 11) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I’d encourage the authors of these drafts to work together on this. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Wes George >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Anything below this line has been added by my company’s mail server, >>>>> I have no control over it. >>>>> >>>>> ----------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> -- >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable >>>>> proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or >>>>> subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is >>>>> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it >>>>> is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, >>>>> you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, >>>>> copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and >>>>> attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be >>>>> unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify >>>>> the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any >>>>> copy of this E-mail and any printout. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sunset4 mailing list >>>>> sunset4@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OSPF mailing list >>> OSPF@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > > _______________________________________________ > OSPF mailing list > OSPF@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ospf > From nobody Fri May 9 19:16:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF4261A0126; Fri, 9 May 2014 15:11:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0P2KSHG89wIS; Fri, 9 May 2014 15:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D04071A0115; Fri, 9 May 2014 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f799b6d000000b0f-8b-536d00fbdffc Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id C4.ED.02831.BF00D635; Fri, 9 May 2014 18:23:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB101.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.118]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Fri, 9 May 2014 18:11:23 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: Uma Chunduri , Xuxiaohu Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W0lzaXMtd2ddIFtPU1BGXSDnrZTlpI06ICDnrZTlpI06ICBbc3Vuc2V0NF0g?= =?utf-8?Q?__IPv6_router_IDs?= Thread-Index: AQHPayEhilMRcoAw9Uy/UwdzvGJxy5s4NlMAgAAJRACAACzOAIAAk7UA//+ejwA= Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 22:11:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0827025D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536B9971.4080700@cisco.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270C0C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536C9892.50107@linfre.de> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270D2D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B228@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B228@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.1.140326 x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: 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http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/dNeEsMZjNM2c6AT3d8XWTdUWQzk X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 09 May 2014 19:16:43 -0700 Cc: "isis-wg@ietf.org" , "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" , Anton Smirnov , Wes George , Joel jaeggli , OSPF List , "sunset4@ietf.org" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] =?utf-8?b?W0lzaXMtd2ddIFtPU1BGXSDnrZTlpI06ICDnrZTlpI06?= =?utf-8?q?_____IPv6_router_IDs?= X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 22:11:41 -0000 SGkgVW1hLCANCg0KU2VlIGlubGluZS4gDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpG cm9tOiBVbWEgQ2h1bmR1cmkgPHVtYS5jaHVuZHVyaUBlcmljc3Nvbi5jb20+DQpEYXRlOiBGcmlk YXksIE1heSA5LCAyMDE0IDI6MDAgUE0NClRvOiBFcmljc3NvbiA8YWNlZS5saW5kZW1AZXJpY3Nz b24uY29tPiwgWHV4aWFvaHUgPHh1eGlhb2h1QGh1YXdlaS5jb20+DQpDYzogImlzaXMtd2dAaWV0 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usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63D531A0158; Fri, 9 May 2014 18:47:01 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f799b6d000000b0f-4c-536d337beacd Received: from EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.96]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 70.02.02831.B733D635; Fri, 9 May 2014 21:58:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB101.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.118]) by EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.96]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Fri, 9 May 2014 21:46:54 -0400 From: Acee Lindem To: Uma Chunduri Thread-Topic: =?big5?B?W0lzaXMtd2ddIFtPU1BGXSC1qs5gOiAgtarOYDogIFtzdW5zZXQ0XSAgIElQdjYg?= =?big5?Q?router_IDs?= Thread-Index: AQHPayEhilMRcoAw9Uy/UwdzvGJxy5s4NlMAgAAJRACAACzOAIAAk7UA//+ejwCAAJTMAIAAHMaA Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 01:46:53 +0000 Message-ID: <96F7B28A-FAE8-48BF-9A88-985E3AAC9436@ericsson.com> References: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> 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"sunset4@ietf.org" , Xuxiaohu , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] =?big5?b?W0lzaXMtd2ddIFtPU1BGXSC1qs5gOiAgtarOYDogICAg?= =?big5?b?IElQdjYgcm91dGVyIElEcw==?= X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 01:47:03 -0000 --_000_96F7B28AFAE848BF9A88985E3AAC9436ericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgVW1hLA0KDQpPbiBNYXkgOSwgMjAxNCwgYXQgODowMyBQTSwgVW1hIENodW5kdXJpIDx1bWEu Y2h1bmR1cmlAZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tPG1haWx0bzp1bWEuY2h1bmR1cmlAZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tPj4g d3JvdGU6DQoNCkhpIEFjZWUsDQpJbi1saW5lIFtVbWFdOg0KDQo+SSBjYW4gc2VlIHRoZXNlIC0N Cj4xLiAgUkxGQSBUTERQIHNlc3Npb24gd2l0aG91dCBoYXZpbmcgdG8gd29ycnkgYSBQUSBub2Rl IHN1cHBvcnRzIFRFIG9yDQo+bm90DQoNCkkgZG9uJ3QgdGhpbmsgdGhpcyBpcyBhIGdvb2QgdXNl 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On May 9, 2014, at 8:03 PM, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi Acee,
In-line [Uma]:
 
>I can see these -
>1.  RLFA TLDP session without having to worry a PQ node suppo= rts TE or
>not
 
I don't think this is a good use case. You need to have an the AF topo= logy in order to compute the remote LFA. Also, you may inherit remote LFA t= argets for external and prefixes from other areas but you will never comput= e remote LFA targets in other areas (at least not with today's algorithms).
 
[Uma]: It doesn't have to be a different area.= Take a simplest case of one area or an L2 domain; after having computed al= l the PQ nodes in that area/domain if the PQ node doesn't support TE and do= esn't advertise router ID (TLV 134) which IP address you would pick for TLDP session ?  You can't reliabl= y know from the advertised prefixes from the node that it is hosted by = ; the node if router ID is not emitted by the node (as it doesn't support T= E).

The only advantage I can see is that a router can explicitly specify w= hich local address it wants to use for targeted LFA sessions. 

 
>2. Orchestration software on a controller or an application which = is
>having access to
>   the topology database of the network may determine th= e node IP
>address without having to go through the hoops (to determine if it= 's
>redistributed or leaked etc..)
>   with this TLV.
 
Can you be more precise? If the orchestration application is going to = orchestrate across multiple areas, I would hope it would have visibility to= the topologies of these areas.
 
[Uma]: Even for a same area or domain having a= node advertise it's loopback as router ID without relation any relation to= TE (supported or not) is a benefit in this case.
The ability of an application on a controller = to know this easily is a huge advantage.
Also there could be multiple loopback and each= for different purposes. For e.g. a PCE on a controller with https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pceps<= span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> can know PCC address
with a firewall port/IP opened on the router f= or TLS connection. It would be great this can happen easily and automatical= ly.

I don=A1=A6t think anyone would have a firewall within an IGP routing = domain. Hence, it would be the same purported advantage as above. 

Thanks,
Acee 



 
--
Uma C.

--_000_96F7B28AFAE848BF9A88985E3AAC9436ericssoncom_-- From nobody Sun May 11 19:41:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9A961A03CC; Sun, 11 May 2014 19:41:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DoyTUe9Rv27U; Sun, 11 May 2014 19:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailc2.tigertech.net (mailc2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.156]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D38301A0148; Sun, 11 May 2014 19:41:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailc2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B3C61E67; Sun, 11 May 2014 19:41:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at c2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (pool-70-106-135-10.clppva.east.verizon.net [70.106.135.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailc2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AC8AD1E66; Sun, 11 May 2014 19:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <537034E9.9090806@joelhalpern.com> Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 22:41:45 -0400 From: "Joel M. Halpern" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Uma Chunduri , Acee Lindem References: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0827025D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536B9971.4080700@cisco.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270C0C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536C9892.50107@linfre.de> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270D2D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B228@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B362@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> <96F7B28A-FAE8-48BF-9A88-985E3AAC9436@ericsson.com> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B80D@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B80D@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/dHkpiR0sSHHZVlLU3moWYsdcsAc Cc: Joel jaeggli , OSPF List , "sunset4@ietf.org" , Wes George , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] =?utf-8?b?W0lzaXMtd2ddIFtPU1BGXSDnrZTlpI06ICDnrZTlpI06?= =?utf-8?q?_____IPv6_router_IDs?= X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 02:41:55 -0000 (Only to Acee and Uma. I will let you two sort this out on the list.) Reading this thread, it look's to me like whatever uses this has, they are not related to the router ID. So if there is anything here at all, it is some other service address advertisement. Uma, I would point out that currently one can not assume that a received router ID is a usqble address. Hence, there has to be an upgrade to the advertising router to indicate this new usage. If there is an upgrade, then most of the use cases are addressed either by upgrading to the feature you really want, or by some form of service address advertisement. Router ID does not seem to be the right hook. Yours, Joel On 5/11/14, 10:29 PM, Uma Chunduri wrote: > Hi Acee, > > My comments inline [Uma1] > > -- > > Uma C. > > *From:*Acee Lindem > *Sent:* Friday, May 09, 2014 6:47 PM > *To:* Uma Chunduri > *Cc:* Xuxiaohu; isis-wg@ietf.org; Wes George; Anton Smirnov; > fanpeng@chinamobile.com; Joel jaeggli; OSPF List; sunset4@ietf.org; > lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com > *Subject:* Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] 答复: 答复: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs > > Hi Uma, > > On May 9, 2014, at 8:03 PM, Uma Chunduri > wrote: > > > > Hi Acee, > > In-line [Uma]: > >>I can see these - > >>1. RLFA TLDP session without having to worry a PQ node supports TE or > >>not > > I don't think this is a good use case. You need to have an the AF > topology in order to compute the remote LFA. Also, you may inherit > remote LFA targets for external and prefixes from other areas but you > will never compute remote LFA targets in other areas (at least not with > today's algorithms). > > [Uma]: It doesn't have to be a different area. Take a simplest case of > one area or an L2 domain; after having computed all the PQ nodes in that > area/domain if the PQ node doesn't support TE and doesn't advertise > router ID (TLV 134) which IP address you would pick for TLDP session ? > You can't reliably know from the advertised prefixes from the node that > it is hosted by the node if router ID is not emitted by the node (as it > doesn't support TE). > > The only advantage I can see is that a router can explicitly specify > which local address it wants to use for targeted LFA sessions. > > > [Uma1]: Yes Acee. This is more practical way and a separate IP can be > hosted for this and this has to be advertised as “router IP” > >>2. Orchestration software on a controller or an application which is > >>having access to > >> the topology database of the network may determine the node IP > >>address without having to go through the hoops (to determine if it's > >>redistributed or leaked etc..) > >> with this TLV. > > Can you be more precise? If the orchestration application is going to > orchestrate across multiple areas, I would hope it would have visibility > to the topologies of these areas. > > [Uma]: Even for a same area or domain having a node advertise it's > loopback as router ID without relation any relation to TE (supported or > not) is a benefit in this case. > > The ability of an application on a controller to know this easily is a > huge advantage. > > Also there could be multiple loopback and each for different purposes. > For e.g. a PCE on a controller > withhttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcepscan know PCC address > > with a firewall port/IP opened on the router for TLS connection. It > would be great this can happen easily and automatically. > > I don’t think anyone would have a firewall within an IGP routing domain. > Hence, it would be the same purported advantage as above. > > [Uma]: IMO, it depends on the controller (where it’s located) and how > many areas/ASes it is overseeing and also depends on applications it’s > giving to access to network nodes. > > In a pure IGP environment, application of FW may not be > necessary, but giving access to the nodes through > applications/controller is completely a different thing and security > requirements can be different. > > Also the main point as you can see here is not only about > security but it’s about giving visibility of the “router IP” through > topology database to an outside entity. > > Overall , FWIW it’s an useful addition to indicate this through (a > sub-tlv of) the router capability TLV as presented here. > > -- > > Uma C. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Isis-wg mailing list > Isis-wg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg > From nobody Sun May 11 20:01:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B30711A03D8; Sun, 11 May 2014 20:01:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q_eIlsVge785; Sun, 11 May 2014 20:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEBA51A0162; Sun, 11 May 2014 20:01:37 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f799b6d000000b0f-5c-536fe7d74275 Received: from EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.84]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 92.03.02831.7D7EF635; Sun, 11 May 2014 23:12:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB105.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.122]) by EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Sun, 11 May 2014 23:01:25 -0400 From: Uma Chunduri To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Acee Lindem Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W0lzaXMtd2ddIFtPU1BGXSDnrZTlpI06ICDnrZTlpI06ICBbc3Vuc2V0NF0g?= =?utf-8?Q?__IPv6_router_IDs?= Thread-Index: AQHPayEh4teIod3/r0eOb3fsPY20bZs4NlMAgAAJRACAACzPgIAATNyggABawgD//78V0IAAfSKAgALpvfCAAEpBgP//vt6A Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 03:01:23 +0000 Message-ID: <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B857@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> References: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0827025D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536B9971.4080700@cisco.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270C0C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536C9892.50107@linfre.de> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270D2D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B228@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B362@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> <96F7B28A-FAE8-48BF-9A88-985E3AAC9436@ericsson.com> 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dmTxBYzsqxg5SotTy3LTjQw3MQIj85gEm+MOxgWfLA8xCnAwKvHwLtiVHyzEmlhWXJl7iFGa g0VJnDf9U2ywkEB6YklqdmpqQWpRfFFpTmrxIUYmDk6pBsa8nb/uzzyz5V+WvYzf4Td/7hv9 NP58a5mP64LOM+d3LzxhYzc5V72ZT02fMfLcqr/X08+suzitrKPvwTSvXavlTy/a9XhG9IKO hUc4jlfzf7r8eZb6luMt3x+Xzve+sUfx28f0lX338/m2CshlLDsc9uykS+WLovg3856+ZWne a7bw/myvNXbTmZRYijMSDbWYi4oTAU+W9tCtAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/LHVZxsRBbs6XjS4gbvf0YUUtSmo Cc: Joel jaeggli , OSPF List , "sunset4@ietf.org" , Wes George , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] =?utf-8?b?W0lzaXMtd2ddIFtPU1BGXSDnrZTlpI06ICDnrZTlpI06?= =?utf-8?q?_____IPv6_router_IDs?= X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 03:01:40 -0000 --_000_1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B857eusaamb105erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F081A03E5 for ; Sun, 11 May 2014 21:25:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mb-aye.local (c-67-188-0-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.188.0.113]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s4C4PN06095512 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 12 May 2014 04:25:24 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) Message-ID: <53704D2C.4000808@bogus.com> Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 21:25:16 -0700 From: joel jaeggli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/29.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Uma Chunduri , "Joel M. Halpern" , Acee Lindem References: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0827025D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536B9971.4080700@cisco.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270C0C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536C9892.50107@linfre.de> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270D2D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B228@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B362@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> <96F7B28A-FAE8-48BF-9A88-985E3AAC9436@ericsson.com> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B80D@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> <537034E9.9090806@joelhalpern.com> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B857@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B857@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="dRl6gs2Eqn1xPvwJMfK368EcVGCgUOoxC" X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (nagasaki.bogus.com [147.28.0.81]); Mon, 12 May 2014 04:25:25 +0000 (UTC) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/6pQAbR5aNMeEusaSH3GEk7gGHNA Cc: OSPF List , Wes George , "sunset4@ietf.org" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: Re: [sunset4] =?utf-8?b?W0lzaXMtd2ddIFtPU1BGXSDnrZTlpI06ICDnrZTlpI06?= =?utf-8?q?_____IPv6_router_IDs?= X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 04:25:34 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --dRl6gs2Eqn1xPvwJMfK368EcVGCgUOoxC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 5/11/14, 8:01 PM, Uma Chunduri wrote: > Dear Joel, > =20 >>Uma, I would point out that currently one cannot assume that a received= router ID is a usqble address. =20 > =20 > I agree this is true for OSPF. > =20 > But for IS-IS it's always a routable IP, but the point is it may not be= > there if there is no TE. an sub tlv 6 interface-id is a not router-id an isis system id is neither 32 bits nor ip. > RFC 6119 > " 4.1. IPv6 TE Router ID TLV > =20 > The IPv6 TE Router ID TLV is TLV type 140. > =20 > The IPv6 TE Router ID TLV contains a 16-octet IPv6 address. A= > stable > global IPv6 address MUST be used, so that the router ID provid= es a > routable address, regardless of the state of a node's interfac= es. > =20 > If a router does not implement traffic engineering, it MAY > include or > omit the IPv6 TE Router ID TLV." IPv6 TE Router ID TLV is not semantically equivalent to router-id or system id and should not be treated as such. > Same story for IPv4 per RFC 5305. It's better to leave this "Router ID"= > alone for this purpose (or relax this to non TE purposes too, but one > can't advertise multiple of them). > =20 >>Hence, there has to be an upgrade to the advertising router to indicate= this new usage. If there is an upgrade, then most of the use cases are = addressed either by upgrading to the feature you really want, or by some = form of service address >advertisement. Router ID does not > seem to be the right hook. > =20 > Instead of "Router ID", I agree it's better to call it as Service IP or= > "routable IP address" TLV. > Yes, upgrade would be require for any node to emit this one! > =20 > -- > Uma C. > =20 > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] > Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2014 7:42 PM > To: Uma Chunduri; Acee Lindem > Cc: Wes George; Joel jaeggli; OSPF List; sunset4@ietf.org; > lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com > Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [= sunset4] IPv6 router IDs > =20 > (Only to Acee and Uma. I will let you two sort this out on the list.) > =20 > Reading this thread, it look's to me like whatever uses this has, they > are not related to the router ID. > So if there is anything here at all, it is some other service address > advertisement. > =20 > Uma, I would point out that currently one can not assume that a receive= d > router ID is a usqble address. Hence, there has to be an upgrade to th= e > advertising router to indicate this new usage. If there is an upgrade,= > then most of the use cases are addressed either by upgrading to the > feature you really want, or by some form of service address > advertisement. Router ID does not seem to be the right hook. > =20 > Yours, > Joel > =20 > On 5/11/14, 10:29 PM, Uma Chunduri wrote: >> Hi Acee, >> >> My comments inline [Uma1] >> >> -- >> >> Uma C. >> >> *From:*Acee Lindem >> *Sent:* Friday, May 09, 2014 6:47 PM >> *To:* Uma Chunduri >> *Cc:* Xuxiaohu; isis-wg@ietf.org ; Wes George= ; Anton Smirnov; >> fanpeng@chinamobile.com ; Joel jaeggli= ; > OSPF List; sunset4@ietf.org ; >> lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com >> *Subject:* Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D= : [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs >> >> Hi Uma, >> >> On May 9, 2014, at 8:03 PM, Uma Chunduri > > wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Acee, >> >> In-line [Uma]: >> >>>I can see these - >> >>>1. RLFA TLDP session without having to worry a PQ node supports TE or= >> >>>not >> >> I don't think this is a good use case. You need to have an the AF=20 >> topology in order to compute the remote LFA. Also, you may inherit=20 >> remote LFA targets for external and prefixes from other areas but you = >> will never compute remote LFA targets in other areas (at least not=20 >> with today's algorithms). >> >> [Uma]: It doesn't have to be a different area. Take a simplest case of= =20 >> one area or an L2 domain; after having computed all the PQ nodes in=20 >> that area/domain if the PQ node doesn't support TE and doesn't=20 >> advertise router ID (TLV 134) which IP address you would pick for TLDP= session ? >> You can't reliably know from the advertised prefixes from the node=20 >> that it is hosted by the node if router ID is not emitted by the node= =20 >> (as it doesn't support TE). >> >> The only advantage I can see is that a router can explicitly specify=20 >> which local address it wants to use for targeted LFA sessions. >> >> >> [Uma1]: Yes Acee. This is more practical way and a separate IP can be = >> hosted for this and this has to be advertised as =E2=80=9Crouter IP=E2= =80=9D >> >>>2. Orchestration software on a controller or an application which is >> >>>having access to >> >>> the topology database of the network may determine the node IP >> >>>address without having to go through the hoops (to determine if it's >> >>>redistributed or leaked etc..) >> >>> with this TLV. >> >> Can you be more precise? If the orchestration application is going to = >> orchestrate across multiple areas, I would hope it would have=20 >> visibility to the topologies of these areas. >> >> [Uma]: Even for a same area or domain having a node advertise it's=20 >> loopback as router ID without relation any relation to TE (supported=20 >> or >> not) is a benefit in this case. >> >> The ability of an application on a controller to know this easily is a= =20 >> huge advantage. >> >> Also there could be multiple loopback and each for different purposes.= >> For e.g. a PCE on a controller >> withhttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pce-pcepscan know PCC=20 >> address >> >> with a firewall port/IP opened on the router for TLS connection. It=20 >> would be great this can happen easily and automatically. >> >> I don=E2=80=99t think anyone would have a firewall within an IGP routi= ng domain. >> Hence, it would be the same purported advantage as above. >> >> [Uma]: IMO, it depends on the controller (where it=E2=80=99s located) = and how=20 >> many areas/ASes it is overseeing and also depends on applications it=E2= =80=99s=20 >> giving to access to network nodes. >> >> In a pure IGP environment, application of FW may not be = >> necessary, but giving access to the nodes through=20 >> applications/controller is completely a different thing and security=20 >> requirements can be different. >> >> Also the main point as you can see here is not only about= =20 >> security but it=E2=80=99s about giving visibility of the =E2=80=9Crout= er IP=E2=80=9D through=20 >> topology database to an outside entity. >> >> Overall , FWIW it=E2=80=99s an useful addition to indicate this throug= h (a=20 >> sub-tlv of) the router capability TLV as presented here. >> >> -- >> >> Uma C. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Isis-wg mailing list >> Isis-wg@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg >> > =20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 >=20 --dRl6gs2Eqn1xPvwJMfK368EcVGCgUOoxC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlNwTSwACgkQ8AA1q7Z/VrKa+ACbBw7Zsx0lXuOqbGYhJXm3fylH Y6kAn1Pyw6mIOMVthVlcc35HNZJ2A/+3 =kuhj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --dRl6gs2Eqn1xPvwJMfK368EcVGCgUOoxC-- From nobody Mon May 12 06:26:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C2E1A03A5; Sun, 11 May 2014 18:44:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.352 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.352 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yRny-Z51xfTh; Sun, 11 May 2014 18:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DD691A03A2; Sun, 11 May 2014 18:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BEA79715; Mon, 12 May 2014 01:44:23 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 12 May 2014 02:42:51 +0100 Received: from NKGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.33) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 12 May 2014 02:44:21 +0100 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.115]) by nkgeml402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 12 May 2014 09:44:14 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Acee Lindem Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?W0lzaXMtd2ddIFtPU1BGXSDnrZTlpI06ICDnrZTlpI06ICBbc3Vuc2V0NF0g?= =?utf-8?Q?__IPv6_router_IDs?= Thread-Index: AQHPa2TU0KeJfDl/fkGY3udMB/Ik+Zs3+2mQ//+nTICABIztEA== Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 01:44:13 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082712E7@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0827025D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536B9971.4080700@cisco.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270C0C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536C9892.50107@linfre.de> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270D2D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sunset4/Kx7_3PiVbM_2hDJIUGcAL_99DtQ X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 12 May 2014 06:26:55 -0700 Cc: "isis-wg@ietf.org" , Wes George , Anton Smirnov , "fanpeng@chinamobile.com" , Joel jaeggli , OSPF List , Karsten Thomann , "sunset4@ietf.org" , "lizhenqiang@chinamobile.com" Subject: [sunset4] 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22:29:59 -0400 From: Uma Chunduri To: Acee Lindem Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?W0lzaXMtd2ddIFtPU1BGXSC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogIFtzdW5zZXQ0XSAgIElQ?= =?gb2312?Q?v6_router_IDs?= Thread-Index: AQHPayEh4teIod3/r0eOb3fsPY20bZs4NlMAgAAJRACAACzPgIAATNyggABawgD//78V0IAAfSKAgALpvfA= Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 02:29:59 +0000 Message-ID: <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B80D@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> References: <5367B449.7090304@bogus.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0826FEA2@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0827025D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536B9971.4080700@cisco.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270C0C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <536C9892.50107@linfre.de> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08270D2D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B228@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> <1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B362@eusaamb105.ericsson.se> <96F7B28A-FAE8-48BF-9A88-985E3AAC9436@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <96F7B28A-FAE8-48BF-9A88-985E3AAC9436@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.12] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B80Deusaamb105erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrAIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPoG71g/xggwVr+C1atrFarG94wW5x 9NB7VotXp9YwWnxdNJvJouXePXaLlXv2s1ss2Xyd1WLr+VWMDpweZ48sYPSYd2Ehm8eU3xtZ PVqOvGX1WLLkJ5PH6jWvWALYorhsUlJzMstSi/TtErgynjxtYy3YPZ2x4s2ynAbGSd2MXYyc HBICJhIHds9mhrDFJC7cW8/WxcjFISRwlFFi9+oLYAkhgeWMEjs+iYDYbAJ6Eh+n/mQHsUUE tCQ6335nB2lgFvjGJLGx9xRrFyMHh7BAscS8d5oQNSUSV74+YoKwkyTufTnNBmKzCKhKLD62 jBXE5hXwlbjUMIsdYvEUNol7T/6BXccp4CBx6sVesGWMQNd9P7UGbBCzgLjErSfzmSCuFpBY suc81AeiEi8f/2OFsJUk5ry+xgxRny9xs2kHI8QyQYmTM5+wTGAUnYVk1CwkZbOQlEHEtSTm NfyGqlGUmNL9kB3C1pS4MvkQlK0tsWzha+YFjOyrGDlKi1PLctONDDcxAqP4mASb4w7GBZ8s DzEKcDAq8fAu2JUfLMSaWFZcmXuIUZqDRUmcN/1TbLCQQHpiSWp2ampBalF8UWlOavEhRiYO 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Hi Acee,

 <= /p>

My comments inline [Uma1]=

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: Acee Lin= dem
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2014 6:47 PM
To: Uma Chunduri
Cc: Xuxiaohu; isis-wg@ietf.org; Wes George; Anton Smirnov; fanpeng@c= hinamobile.com; Joel jaeggli; OSPF List; sunset4@ietf.org; lizhenqiang@chin= amobile.com
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [OSPF] =B4=F0=B8=B4: =B4=F0=B8=B4<= span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-se= rif"">: [sunset4] IPv6 router IDs

 

Hi Uma,

 

On May 9, 2014, at 8:03 PM, Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@ericsson.com> wro= te:



Hi Acee,

In-line [Uma]:

 

>I can see these -=

>1.  RLFA TLDP session without = having to worry a PQ node supports TE or

>not

 

I don't think this is a good use case. = You need to have an the AF topology in order to compute the remote LFA. Als= o, you may inherit remote LFA targets for external and prefixes from other areas but you will never compute remote LFA targets in other ar= eas (at least not with today's algorithms).

 

[Uma]: It doesn't have to= be a different area. Take a simplest case of one area or an L2 domain; aft= er having computed all the PQ nodes in that area/domain if the PQ node doesn't support TE and doesn't advertise router ID (TLV 134= ) which IP address you would pick for TLDP session ?  You can't reliab= ly know from the advertised prefixes from the node that it is hosted by&nbs= p; the node if router ID is not emitted by the node (as it doesn't support TE).=

 

The only advantage I can see is that a router can ex= plicitly specify which local address it wants to use for targeted LFA sessi= ons. 


[Uma1]: Yes Acee. This is more practical way = and a separate IP can be hosted for this and this has to be advertised as = =A1=B0router IP=A1=B1

 

>2. Orchestration software on a cont= roller or an application which is

>having access to<= /p>

>   the topology database = of the network may determine the node IP

>address without having to go throug= h the hoops (to determine if it's

>redistributed or leaked etc..)=

>   with this TLV.

 

Can you be more precise? If the orchest= ration application is going to orchestrate across multiple areas, I would h= ope it would have visibility to the topologies of these areas.

 

[Uma]: Even for a same ar= ea or domain having a node advertise it's loopback as router ID without rel= ation any relation to TE (supported or not) is a benefit in this case.

The ability of an applica= tion on a controller to know this easily is a huge advantage.

Also there could be multi= ple loopback and each for different purposes. For e.g. a PCE on a controlle= r with https://tools.ietf.org/html/draf= t-ietf-pce-pceps can know PCC address

with a firewall port/IP o= pened on the router for TLS connection. It would be great this can happen e= asily and automatically.

 

I don=A1=AFt think anyone would have a firewall with= in an IGP routing domain. Hence, it would be the same purported advantage a= s above. 

 <= /p>

[Uma]: IMO, it depends on= the controller (where it=A1=AFs located) and how many areas/ASes it is ove= rseeing and also depends on applications it=A1=AFs giving to access to network nodes.

    &= nbsp;        In a pure IGP environment, = application of FW may not be necessary, but  giving access to the node= s through applications/controller is completely a different thing and security requirements can be different.

    &= nbsp;       Also the main point as you can se= e here is not only about security but it=A1=AFs about giving visibility of = the =A1=B0router IP=A1=B1 through topology database to an outside entity.

 <= /p>

Overall , FWIW it=A1=AFs = an useful addition to indicate this through (a sub-tlv of) the router capab= ility TLV as presented here.

    &= nbsp;      

--

Uma  C.

--_000_1B502206DFA0C544B7A60469152008633F27B80Deusaamb105erics_-- From nobody Sat May 31 08:04:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8F8B1A06F9; Thu, 29 May 2014 20:21:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hw8IVdHLE0-j; Thu, 29 May 2014 20:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ihemail1.lucent.com (ihemail1.lucent.com [135.245.0.33]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 860161A02E8; Thu, 29 May 2014 20:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us70tusmtp1.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-5-2-63.lucent.com [135.5.2.63]) by ihemail1.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id s4U3KWOF029343 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); 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