From nobody Thu Apr 2 08:45:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D64C1ACC82 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2015 08:45:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.225 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.225 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y0_MsNoe8MMf for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2015 08:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdpipgw02.twcable.com (cdpipgw02.twcable.com [165.237.59.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED0261ACD46 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2015 08:45:02 -0700 (PDT) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.14 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,511,1422939600"; d="scan'208";a="669608916" Received: from unknown (HELO PRVPEXHUB05.corp.twcable.com) ([10.136.163.14]) by cdpipgw02.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 02 Apr 2015 11:30:38 -0400 Received: from PRVPEXVS10.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.40]) by PRVPEXHUB05.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.14]) with mapi; Thu, 2 Apr 2015 11:45:02 -0400 From: "George, Wes" To: Tom Taylor , "sunset4@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 11:45:02 -0400 Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt Thread-Index: AdBtW/tM+iOpA6zgSvmhSlwuC3ZKdw== Message-ID: References: <20140929155531.9911.46197.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <54298319.7010605@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54298319.7010605@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "Donley, Chris \(Cable Labs\)" Subject: Re: [sunset4] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2015 15:45:05 -0000 QXV0aG9ycyAtDQoNCkJhc2VkIG9uIHRoZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGR1cmluZyB0aGUgbWVldGluZyBp biBEYWxsYXMsIHBsZWFzZSBwdWJsaXNoIGEgbmV3DQp2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIHRoaXMgd2l0aCBhIHNs aWdodGx5IGRpZmZlcmVudCBuYW1lLiBXZSB3aWxsIG5vdCBsaW5rIHRoZSB0d28NCmluICJyZXBs YWNlcyIsIGFuZCB0aGlzIHdpbGwgY2xlYXIgdGhlIGV4aXN0aW5nIElQUiBlbmN1bWJyYW5jZS4N Cg0KU2VwYXJhdGVseSwgd2lsbCB0aGUgY2FibGUgTGFicyBmb2xrcyBjb25maXJtIHRoYXQgdGhl IG5ldyBkcmFmdCBkb2VzIG5vdA0KaGF2ZSBhbnkgb2YgeW91ciBJUFIgaW4gaXQ/DQoNCk9uY2Ug dGhpcyBpcyBjb21wbGV0ZWQsIHdlIHdpbGwgY2FsbCBmb3IgV0cgYWRvcHRpb24uIFNvcnJ5IGZv 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dGVudHMgb2YgYW5kIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzIHRvIHRoaXMgRS1tYWlsIGlzIHN0cmljdGx5IHByb2hp Yml0ZWQgYW5kIG1heSBiZSB1bmxhd2Z1bC4gSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgdGhpcyBFLW1h aWwgaW4gZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkgdGhlIHNlbmRlciBpbW1lZGlhdGVseSBhbmQgcGVy bWFuZW50bHkgZGVsZXRlIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCBhbmQgYW55IGNvcHkgb2YgdGhpcyBFLW1haWwg YW5kIGFueSBwcmludG91dC4NCg== From nobody Fri Apr 3 06:44:41 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37AB61A92AE; Fri, 3 Apr 2015 06:44:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.425 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.425 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1_3Q_Yp3qMY2; Fri, 3 Apr 2015 06:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdpipgw01.twcable.com (cdpipgw01.twcable.com [165.237.59.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2620A1A8ABD; Fri, 3 Apr 2015 06:44:35 -0700 (PDT) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.13 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,517,1422939600"; d="scan'208,217";a="849049143" Received: from unknown (HELO PRVPEXHUB04.corp.twcable.com) ([10.136.163.13]) by cdpipgw01.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 03 Apr 2015 09:30:42 -0400 Received: from PRVPEXVS10.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.40]) by PRVPEXHUB04.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.13]) with mapi; Fri, 3 Apr 2015 09:44:35 -0400 From: "George, Wes" To: Ca By , "Fred Baker (fred)" Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 09:44:34 -0400 Thread-Topic: [v6ops] IPv4 trajectory Thread-Index: AdBuFFHyJK3o8nZ3RKykwdIXbZ5ANw== Message-ID: References: <551AF135.3060602@gmail.com> <551B37B9.4090400@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D143FC8D4C060wesleygeorgetwcablecom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: IPv6 Ops WG , "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] [v6ops] IPv4 trajectory X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 13:44:40 -0000 --_000_D143FC8D4C060wesleygeorgetwcablecom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QWRkaW5nIHN1bnNldDQsIHNpbmNlIHRoaXMgbG9va3MgYSBsb3QgbGlrZSBhIGRpc2N1c3Npb24g YWJvdXQgdHVybmluZyBvZmYgSVB2NC4gOi0pDQoNCkZyb206IENhIEJ5IDxjYi5saXN0NkBnbWFp bC5jb208bWFpbHRvOmNiLmxpc3Q2QGdtYWlsLmNvbT4+DQpEYXRlOiBUdWVzZGF5LCBNYXJjaCAz 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mapi; Fri, 3 Apr 2015 10:08:39 -0400 From: "George, Wes" To: Ca By , IPv6 Ops WG Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 10:08:38 -0400 Thread-Topic: [v6ops] The need for local-ipv4 socket transition solutions -- NAT64/DNS64 remains insufficient Thread-Index: AdBuF644V3CcDbzaRjSAYhfCS60Dlg== Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D14414A14C161wesleygeorgetwcablecom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] [v6ops] The need for local-ipv4 socket transition solutions -- NAT64/DNS64 remains insufficient X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 14:08:44 -0000 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nobody Fri Apr 3 10:34:53 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A181ACDFF; Fri, 3 Apr 2015 10:34:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -114.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-114.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I8FAA1udovrP; Fri, 3 Apr 2015 10:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC4881ACDFE; Fri, 3 Apr 2015 10:34:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=58378; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1428082486; x=1429292086; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=WoXRvoSiKdpVUMQY8RrZ0RT107rk8zZOwULvoWofQkw=; b=j9zrDuZoqc3eZrxE3gs8+6yQNErEs1S/akdkYEYrxZPT+iVyHSDJRE9m CEpNpzI45uZFAAMfevzXvZzCixpShJV30jax/lILDWGQ3UzjhIirq+eWF 1RwRhhx0Wm+VrhKQlMNYTZpGgNZyklTFGGQ1oEuNNVABitSXHi1BFnAwL I=; X-Files: transition.xml, transition.txt, transition.html, signature.asc : 13207, 13426, 27796, 487 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0DgBQAozh5V/4ENJK1cgkhDUlwFgxDAV4IEhXMKAoEvTAEBAQEBAX6EHwEBBBoJBEAGDBACAQgSJgEJAgIyFw4CBA4FDoghDbUZmA0BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXiymEFhEBJxgSBwmCXy+BFgWGU4gJgg+BboEzVIQKggGBHREpgnuMMoNIIoNvbwGBCjl/AQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,518,1422921600"; d="xml'217?asc'217?html'217,217?txt'217,217?scan'217,217,208,217"; a="408976421" Received: from alln-core-9.cisco.com ([173.36.13.129]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Apr 2015 17:34:44 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com [173.36.12.79]) by alln-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t33HYiO1009444 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Apr 2015 17:34:44 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([169.254.9.67]) by xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com ([173.36.12.79]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 3 Apr 2015 12:34:44 -0500 From: "Fred Baker (fred)" To: "George, Wes" Thread-Topic: [v6ops] IPv4 trajectory Thread-Index: AQHQbjR4SwYTQhluR0mkL23V7qY82g== Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 17:34:43 +0000 Message-ID: <028FC16B-8D26-4CDE-8F17-19148B20B99C@cisco.com> References: <551AF135.3060602@gmail.com> <551B37B9.4090400@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.19.64.117] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_21832243-2299-4097-964E-D62C1CC7BF87"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Ca By , IPv6 Ops WG , "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] [v6ops] IPv4 trajectory X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2015 17:34:51 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_21832243-2299-4097-964E-D62C1CC7BF87 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5CF6462A-9F96-45D5-B33E-C3DF553015CF" --Apple-Mail=_5CF6462A-9F96-45D5-B33E-C3DF553015CF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dumb question. There were at least a couple of comments early in the = thread about =E2=80=9Cwe should have an ID that says this=E2=80=9D. I = hacked one together, basically an updated version of the email. (1) are we interested enough to actually have a draft, or does it just = seem cute? (2) if we=E2=80=99re interested enough to have a draft, what working = group? (3) if we=E2=80=99re interested enough to have a draft, it seems to me = that I should have 1-3 co-authors, from SP, enterprise, and perhaps CDN = environments, that can comment with some authority about the process and = considerations in their environments. I would want the co-authors to add = text as they deem it appropriate. See attached. --Apple-Mail=_5CF6462A-9F96-45D5-B33E-C3DF553015CF Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=transition.xml Content-Type: application/xml; name="transition.xml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ruminations on the IPv4->IPv6 Transition Cisco Systems
Santa Barbara 93117 California USA fred@cisco.com
Operations and Management IPv6 Operations This note presents the author's perspective on the transition.
Seven years after its writing, the Basic Transition Mechanisms for IPv6 Hosts and Routers, seems a little naive. The model proposed was that the Internet, and any of its component networks, would go through three essential phases: IPv4-only network IPv4+IPv6 Dual Stack network IPv6-only Network In fairness, the authors were trying to describe the transition in broad terms, so the naiveté is excusable. However, reality appears to be more like: IPv4-only network IPv4 with lab experiments or isolated IPv6 networks without IPv6-capable services IPv4 with in some combination of overlay and native IPv6 deployment IPv4+IPv6 (native) dual stack network IPv6+IPv4 non-native, translated or overlay (e.g., as a service) IPv6 with little bits of IPv4 here and there IPv6-only Even that is to some extent naive; only the smallest of networks can change overnight. Real networks change in a piecemeal fashion. So in a network that is somewhere in the process of transition probably has components in each of those phases.
There are a variety of transition technologies available in either commerical or open source implementation. The following is a fairly comprehensive list, but may be partial. 464XLAT: Combination of Stateful and Stateless Translation Translation between IPv4 and a configured native IPv6 address ( ) Mapping of Address and Port with Encapsulation (MAP) Mapping of Address and Port using Double Translation (MAP-T) Stateless Single Translation to an IPv4-embedded IPv6 Address () Stateful Single Translation to an IPv6 Address () Dual-Stack Lite Broadband Deployments Following IPv4 Exhaustion Lightweight 4over6: An Extension to the DS-Lite Architecture LISP (4 over 6, )
As noted in , the network appears to go through about seven steps or phases.
The first step is the existing IPv4 Internet.
With the publication of the original IPv6 Specification, and especially with its successor, researchers started learning about the technology. On March 30 1995, they set up the first interconnection between two independent IPv6 implementations, between sipper.pa-x.dec.com and ottawa.inria.fr. Several academic and research networks such as Renater, HEANET, and Internet2, deployed the technology in a trial mode. Many networks continue to kick the tires, lacking a business requirement to go to the next step.
The third phase is wider trial deployment. This often involves IPv6/IPv4 tunnels, local network deployment, 6rd, or ISATAP.
The fourth step is Dual Stack deployment. This calls for careful definition, as there are cheap versions that stop at "we turned them both on, but of course IPv4 is the one we depend on". In a Dual Stack deployment, either protocol is useful and usable for any purpose; it is feasible to turn IPv4 off for any supported service. It is retained because of specific applications, equipment, or constituencies that would object.
The network begins to overcome the objections, and turn IPv4 off for some set of equipment or applications. Content exists that must be reached on IPv4-only networks including the general Internet, and not all services within the network may be fully IPv6-capable. For that reason, IPv4 must be maintained. But to reduce costs or to manage the shrinking IPv4 address space, IPv4 is carried via translation or encapsulation, using technologies such as those mentioned in .
As IPv6 proves viable, the overlay or translation system gets turned off. At this point, IPv4 assumes a legacy status, comparable to AppleTalk or DECNet.
IPv4 has been turned off everywhere. It is cold in hell, and some IT managers are having it pried out of their cold, dead hands.
The steps in fall broadly into three groups: IPv4 networks, perhaps with some toys, IPv6 networks with mitigations for issues related to IPv4, and the Dual Stack Network. What may not be obvious is that the transition from IPv4 with trial IPv6 deployment to IPv6 with legacy IPv4 deployment has a choice: one can go through Dual Stack or Simulated Dual Stack phases, but there is no need to go through both. Dual Stack will be easier, in the sense that for an instant both technologies are feasible and then IPv4 is turned off. However, it may be more expensive. We are beginning to see networks opt for IPv6 with an IPv4 translation or overlay, whatever problems that may bring.
This memo asks the IANA for no new parameters.
What - are my insecurities showing?
Privacy was not considered in the writing of this memo.
April 2015
--Apple-Mail=_5CF6462A-9F96-45D5-B33E-C3DF553015CF Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=transition.txt Content-Type: text/plain; name="transition.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IPv6 Operations F. Baker Internet-Draft Cisco Systems Intended status: Standards Track March 31, 2015 Expires: October 2, 2015 Ruminations on the IPv4->IPv6 Transition draft-baker-v6ops-transition-ruminations-00 Abstract This note present's the author's perspective on the transition. Status of This Memo This Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF). Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts. The list of current Internet- Drafts is at http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/current/. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." This Internet-Draft will expire on October 2, 2015. Copyright Notice Copyright (c) 2015 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the document authors. All rights reserved. This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal Provisions Relating to IETF Documents (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of publication of this document. Please review these documents carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect to this document. Code Components extracted from this document must include Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as described in the Simplified BSD License. Baker Expires October 2, 2015 [Page 1] =0C Internet-Draft IPv4->IPv6 Transition March 2015 Table of Contents 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 2. Transition Technologies: IPv4 as a Service . . . . . . . . . 3 3. Steps in the transition . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3.1. IPv4-only network . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3.2. IPv4 with scattered IPv6 experiments . . . . . . . . . . 4 3.3. IPv4+non-native IPv6, translated or overlay (e.g., as a service) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3.4. IPv4+IPv6 native dual stack network . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3.5. IPv6+non-native IPv4, translated or overlay (e.g., as a service) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3.6. IPv6 with scattered legacy IPv4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3.7. IPv6-only . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4. Ruminations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 5. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 7. Privacy Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 8. Acknowledgements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 9. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 Appendix A. Change Log . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 Author's Address . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 1. Introduction Seven years after its writing, the Basic Transition Mechanisms for IPv6 Hosts and Routers [RFC4213], seems a little naive. The model proposed was that the Internet, and any of its component networks, would go through three essential phases: 1. IPv4-only network 2. IPv4+IPv6 Dual Stack network 3. IPv6-only Network In fairness, the authors were trying to describe the transition in broad terms, so the naivete is excusable. However, reality appears to be more like: 1. IPv4-only network 2. IPv4 with lab experiments or isolated IPv6 networks without IPv6-capable services 3. IPv4 with in some combination of overlay and native IPv6 deployment Baker Expires October 2, 2015 [Page 2] =0C Internet-Draft IPv4->IPv6 Transition March 2015 4. IPv4+IPv6 (native) dual stack network 5. IPv6+IPv4 non-native, translated or overlay (e.g., as a service) 6. IPv6 with little bits of IPv4 here and there 7. IPv6-only Even that is to some extent naive; only the smallest of networks can change overnight. Real networks change in a piecemeal fashion. So in a network that is somewhere in the process of transition probably has components in each of those phases. 2. Transition Technologies: IPv4 as a Service There are a variety of transition technologies available in either commerical or open source implementation. The following is a fairly comprehensive list, but may be partial. o 464XLAT: Combination of Stateful and Stateless Translation [RFC6877] o Translation between IPv4 and a configured native IPv6 address ([I-D.ietf-v6ops-siit-dc] [I-D.ietf-v6ops-siit-dc-2xlat] [I-D.anderson-v6ops-siit-eam]) o Mapping of Address and Port with Encapsulation (MAP) [I-D.ietf-softwire-map] o Mapping of Address and Port using Double Translation (MAP-T) [I-D.ietf-softwire-map-t] o Stateless Single Translation to an IPv4-embedded IPv6 Address ([RFC6145]) o Stateful Single Translation to an IPv6 Address ([RFC6146]) o Dual-Stack Lite Broadband Deployments Following IPv4 Exhaustion [RFC6333] o Lightweight 4over6: An Extension to the DS-Lite Architecture [I-D.ietf-softwire-lw4over6] o LISP (4 over 6, [I-D.ietf-lisp-introduction]) Baker Expires October 2, 2015 [Page 3] =0C Internet-Draft IPv4->IPv6 Transition March 2015 3. Steps in the transition As noted in Section 1, the network appears to go through about seven steps or phases. 3.1. IPv4-only network The first step is the existing IPv4 Internet. 3.2. IPv4 with scattered IPv6 experiments With the publication of the original IPv6 Specification [RFC1883], and especially with its successor [RFC2460], researchers started learning about the technology. On March 30 1995, they set up the first interconnection between two independent IPv6 implementations, between sipper.pa-x.dec.com and ottawa.inria.fr. Several academic and research networks such as Renater, HEANET, and Internet2, deployed the technology in a trial mode. Many networks continue to kick the tires, lacking a business requirement to go to the next step. 3.3. IPv4+non-native IPv6, translated or overlay (e.g., as a service) The third phase is wider trial deployment. This often involves IPv6/ IPv4 tunnels, local network deployment, 6rd [RFC5569], or ISATAP [RFC5214]. 3.4. IPv4+IPv6 native dual stack network The fourth step is Dual Stack deployment. This calls for careful definition, as there are cheap versions that stop at "we turned them both on, but of course IPv4 is the one we depend on". In a Dual Stack deployment, either protocol is useful and usable for any purpose; it is feasible to turn IPv4 off for any supported service. It is retained because of specific applications, equipment, or constituencies that would object. 3.5. IPv6+non-native IPv4, translated or overlay (e.g., as a service) The network begins to overcome the objections, and turn IPv4 off for some set of equipment or applications. Content exists that must be reached on IPv4-only networks including the general Internet, and not all services within the network may be fully IPv6-capable. For that reason, IPv4 must be maintained. But to reduce costs or to manage the shrinking IPv4 address space, IPv4 is carried via translation or encapsulation, using technologies such as those mentioned in Section 2. Baker Expires October 2, 2015 [Page 4] =0C Internet-Draft IPv4->IPv6 Transition March 2015 3.6. IPv6 with scattered legacy IPv4 As IPv6 proves viable, the overlay or translation system gets turned off. At this point, IPv4 assumes a legacy status, comparable to AppleTalk or DECNet. 3.7. IPv6-only IPv4 has been turned off everywhere. It is cold in hell, and some IT managers are having it pried out of their cold, dead hands. 4. Ruminations The steps in Section 3 fall broadly into three groups: IPv4 networks, perhaps with some toys, IPv6 networks with mitigations for issues related to IPv4, and the Dual Stack Network. What may not be obvious is that the transition from IPv4 with trial IPv6 deployment (Section 3.3) to IPv6 with legacy IPv4 deployment (Section 3.6) has a choice: one can go through Dual Stack (Section 3.4) or Simulated Dual Stack (Section 3.5) phases, but there is no need to go through both. Dual Stack will be easier, in the sense that for an instant both technologies are feasible and then IPv4 is turned off. However, it may be more expensive. We are beginning to see networks opt for IPv6 with an IPv4 translation or overlay, whatever problems that may bring. 5. IANA Considerations This memo asks the IANA for no new parameters. 6. Security Considerations What - are my insecurities showing? 7. Privacy Considerations Privacy was not considered in the writing of this memo. 8. Acknowledgements 9. Informative References [I-D.anderson-v6ops-siit-eam] tore, t., "Explicit Address Mappings for Stateless IP/ICMP Translation", draft-anderson-v6ops-siit-eam-03 (work in progress), January 2015. Baker Expires October 2, 2015 [Page 5] =0C Internet-Draft IPv4->IPv6 Transition March 2015 [I-D.ietf-lisp-introduction] Cabellos-Aparicio, A. and D. Saucez, "An Architectural Introduction to the Locator/ID Separation Protocol (LISP)", draft-ietf-lisp-introduction-12 (work in progress), February 2015. [I-D.ietf-softwire-lw4over6] Cui, Y., Qiong, Q., Boucadair, M., Tsou, T., Lee, Y., and I. Farrer, "Lightweight 4over6: An Extension to the DS- Lite Architecture", draft-ietf-softwire-lw4over6-13 (work in progress), November 2014. [I-D.ietf-softwire-map-t] Li, X., Bao, C., Dec, W., Troan, O., Matsushima, S., and T. Murakami, "Mapping of Address and Port using Translation (MAP-T)", draft-ietf-softwire-map-t-08 (work in progress), December 2014. [I-D.ietf-softwire-map] Troan, O., Dec, W., Li, X., Bao, C., Matsushima, S., Murakami, T., and T. Taylor, "Mapping of Address and Port with Encapsulation (MAP)", draft-ietf-softwire-map-12 (work in progress), November 2014. [I-D.ietf-v6ops-siit-dc-2xlat] tore, t., "SIIT-DC: Dual Translation Mode", draft-ietf- v6ops-siit-dc-2xlat-00 (work in progress), January 2015. [I-D.ietf-v6ops-siit-dc] tore, t., "SIIT-DC: Stateless IP/ICMP Translation for IPv6 Data Centre Environments", draft-ietf-v6ops-siit-dc-00 (work in progress), December 2014. [RFC1883] Deering, S. and R. Hinden, "Internet Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification", RFC 1883, December 1995. [RFC2460] Deering, S. and R. Hinden, "Internet Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification", RFC 2460, December 1998. [RFC4213] Nordmark, E. and R. Gilligan, "Basic Transition Mechanisms for IPv6 Hosts and Routers", RFC 4213, October 2005. [RFC5214] Templin, F., Gleeson, T., and D. Thaler, "Intra-Site Automatic Tunnel Addressing Protocol (ISATAP)", RFC 5214, March 2008. [RFC5569] Despres, R., "IPv6 Rapid Deployment on IPv4 Infrastructures (6rd)", RFC 5569, January 2010. Baker Expires October 2, 2015 [Page 6] =0C Internet-Draft IPv4->IPv6 Transition March 2015 [RFC6145] Li, X., Bao, C., and F. Baker, "IP/ICMP Translation Algorithm", RFC 6145, April 2011. [RFC6146] Bagnulo, M., Matthews, P., and I. van Beijnum, "Stateful NAT64: Network Address and Protocol Translation from IPv6 Clients to IPv4 Servers", RFC 6146, April 2011. [RFC6333] Durand, A., Droms, R., Woodyatt, J., and Y. Lee, "Dual- Stack Lite Broadband Deployments Following IPv4 Exhaustion", RFC 6333, August 2011. [RFC6877] Mawatari, M., Kawashima, M., and C. Byrne, "464XLAT: Combination of Stateful and Stateless Translation", RFC 6877, April 2013. Appendix A. Change Log Initial Version: April 2015 Author's Address Fred Baker Cisco Systems Santa Barbara, California 93117 USA Email: fred@cisco.com Baker Expires October 2, 2015 [Page 7] --Apple-Mail=_5CF6462A-9F96-45D5-B33E-C3DF553015CF Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=transition.html Content-Type: text/html; name="transition.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ruminations on the IPv4->IPv6 Transition
IPv6 Operations F. Baker
Internet-Draft Cisco Systems
Intended status: Standards Track March 31, 2015
Expires: October 2, 2015

Ruminations on the IPv4->IPv6 Transition
draft-baker-v6ops-transition-ruminations-00

Abstract

This note present's the author's perspective on the transition.

Status of This Memo

This Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79.

Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF). Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts. The list of current Internet-Drafts is at http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/current/.

Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."

This Internet-Draft will expire on October 2, 2015.

Copyright Notice

Copyright (c) 2015 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the document authors. All rights reserved.

This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal Provisions Relating to IETF Documents (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of publication of this document. Please review these documents carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect to this document. Code Components extracted from this document must include Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as described in the Simplified BSD License.

Table of Contents

1. Introduction

Seven years after its writing, the Basic Transition Mechanisms for IPv6 Hosts and Routers [RFC4213], seems a little naive. The model proposed was that the Internet, and any of its component networks, would go through three essential phases:

  1. IPv4-only network
  2. IPv4+IPv6 Dual Stack network
  3. IPv6-only Network

In fairness, the authors were trying to describe the transition in broad terms, so the naiveté is excusable. However, reality appears to be more like:

  1. IPv4-only network
  2. IPv4 with lab experiments or isolated IPv6 networks without IPv6-capable services
  3. IPv4 with in some combination of overlay and native IPv6 deployment
  4. IPv4+IPv6 (native) dual stack network
  5. IPv6+IPv4 non-native, translated or overlay (e.g., as a service)
  6. IPv6 with little bits of IPv4 here and there
  7. IPv6-only

Even that is to some extent naive; only the smallest of networks can change overnight. Real networks change in a piecemeal fashion. So in a network that is somewhere in the process of transition probably has components in each of those phases.

2. Transition Technologies: IPv4 as a Service

There are a variety of transition technologies available in either commerical or open source implementation. The following is a fairly comprehensive list, but may be partial.

3. Steps in the transition

As noted in Section 1, the network appears to go through about seven steps or phases.

3.1. IPv4-only network

The first step is the existing IPv4 Internet.

3.2. IPv4 with scattered IPv6 experiments

With the publication of the original IPv6 Specification [RFC1883], and especially with its successor [RFC2460], researchers started learning about the technology. On March 30 1995, they set up the first interconnection between two independent IPv6 implementations, between sipper.pa-x.dec.com and ottawa.inria.fr. Several academic and research networks such as Renater, HEANET, and Internet2, deployed the technology in a trial mode.

Many networks continue to kick the tires, lacking a business requirement to go to the next step.

3.3. IPv4+non-native IPv6, translated or overlay (e.g., as a service)

The third phase is wider trial deployment. This often involves IPv6/IPv4 tunnels, local network deployment, 6rd [RFC5569], or ISATAP [RFC5214].

3.4. IPv4+IPv6 native dual stack network

The fourth step is Dual Stack deployment. This calls for careful definition, as there are cheap versions that stop at "we turned them both on, but of course IPv4 is the one we depend on". In a Dual Stack deployment, either protocol is useful and usable for any purpose; it is feasible to turn IPv4 off for any supported service. It is retained because of specific applications, equipment, or constituencies that would object.

3.5. IPv6+non-native IPv4, translated or overlay (e.g., as a service)

The network begins to overcome the objections, and turn IPv4 off for some set of equipment or applications. Content exists that must be reached on IPv4-only networks including the general Internet, and not all services within the network may be fully IPv6-capable. For that reason, IPv4 must be maintained. But to reduce costs or to manage the shrinking IPv4 address space, IPv4 is carried via translation or encapsulation, using technologies such as those mentioned in Section 2.

3.6. IPv6 with scattered legacy IPv4

As IPv6 proves viable, the overlay or translation system gets turned off. At this point, IPv4 assumes a legacy status, comparable to AppleTalk or DECNet.

3.7. IPv6-only

IPv4 has been turned off everywhere. It is cold in hell, and some IT managers are having it pried out of their cold, dead hands.

4. Ruminations

The steps in Section 3 fall broadly into three groups: IPv4 networks, perhaps with some toys, IPv6 networks with mitigations for issues related to IPv4, and the Dual Stack Network. What may not be obvious is that the transition from IPv4 with trial IPv6 deployment [step3] to IPv6 with legacy IPv4 deployment [step6] has a choice: one can go through Dual Stack [step4] or Simulated Dual Stack [step5] phases, but there is no need to go through both. Dual Stack will be easier, in the sense that for an instant both technologies are feasible and then IPv4 is turned off. However, it may be more expensive. We are beginning to see networks opt for IPv6 with an IPv4 translation or overlay, whatever problems that may bring.

5. IANA Considerations

This memo asks the IANA for no new parameters.

6. Security Considerations

What - are my insecurities showing?

7. Privacy Considerations

Privacy was not considered in the writing of this memo.

8. Acknowledgements

9. Informative References

[I-D.anderson-v6ops-siit-eam] tore, t., "Explicit Address Mappings for Stateless IP/ICMP Translation", Internet-Draft draft-anderson-v6ops-siit-eam-03, January 2015.
[I-D.ietf-lisp-introduction] Cabellos-Aparicio, A. and D. Saucez, "An Architectural Introduction to the Locator/ID Separation Protocol (LISP)", Internet-Draft draft-ietf-lisp-introduction-12, February 2015.
[I-D.ietf-softwire-lw4over6] Cui, Y., Qiong, Q., Boucadair, M., Tsou, T., Lee, Y. and I. Farrer, "Lightweight 4over6: An Extension to the DS-Lite Architecture", Internet-Draft draft-ietf-softwire-lw4over6-13, November 2014.
[I-D.ietf-softwire-map] Troan, O., Dec, W., Li, X., Bao, C., Matsushima, S., Murakami, T. and T. Taylor, "Mapping of Address and Port with Encapsulation (MAP)", Internet-Draft draft-ietf-softwire-map-12, November 2014.
[I-D.ietf-softwire-map-t] Li, X., Bao, C., Dec, W., Troan, O., Matsushima, S. and T. Murakami, "Mapping of Address and Port using Translation (MAP-T)", Internet-Draft draft-ietf-softwire-map-t-08, December 2014.
[I-D.ietf-v6ops-siit-dc] tore, t., "SIIT-DC: Stateless IP/ICMP Translation for IPv6 Data Centre Environments", Internet-Draft draft-ietf-v6ops-siit-dc-00, December 2014.
[I-D.ietf-v6ops-siit-dc-2xlat] tore, t., "SIIT-DC: Dual Translation Mode", Internet-Draft draft-ietf-v6ops-siit-dc-2xlat-00, January 2015.
[RFC1883] Deering, S. and R. Hinden, "Internet Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification", RFC 1883, December 1995.
[RFC2460] Deering, S. and R. Hinden, "Internet Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification", RFC 2460, December 1998.
[RFC4213] Nordmark, E. and R. Gilligan, "Basic Transition Mechanisms for IPv6 Hosts and Routers", RFC 4213, October 2005.
[RFC5214] Templin, F., Gleeson, T. and D. Thaler, "Intra-Site Automatic Tunnel Addressing Protocol (ISATAP)", RFC 5214, March 2008.
[RFC5569] Despres, R., "IPv6 Rapid Deployment on IPv4 Infrastructures (6rd)", RFC 5569, January 2010.
[RFC6145] Li, X., Bao, C. and F. Baker, "IP/ICMP Translation Algorithm", RFC 6145, April 2011.
[RFC6146] Bagnulo, M., Matthews, P. and I. van Beijnum, "Stateful NAT64: Network Address and Protocol Translation from IPv6 Clients to IPv4 Servers", RFC 6146, April 2011.
[RFC6333] Durand, A., Droms, R., Woodyatt, J. and Y. Lee, "Dual-Stack Lite Broadband Deployments Following IPv4 Exhaustion", RFC 6333, August 2011.
[RFC6877] Mawatari, M., Kawashima, M. and C. Byrne, "464XLAT: Combination of Stateful and Stateless Translation", RFC 6877, April 2013.

Appendix A. Change Log

Initial Version:
April 2015

Author's Address

Fred Baker Cisco Systems Santa Barbara, California 93117 USA EMail: fred@cisco.com
--Apple-Mail=_5CF6462A-9F96-45D5-B33E-C3DF553015CF-- --Apple-Mail=_21832243-2299-4097-964E-D62C1CC7BF87 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQEVAwUBVR7K559ieig10VPpAQIrDQgAhcbvb4iBfsMyECB4fgoxfQbf3o9UvdKm gl8CHB28CYHinClMc9F+n/mcDbHOHgs3ND5KsBhsFI2UdBYGXuaAacunzFEIMJfB B5IcMUbDElWUo6OyLSDM4+KHxzNjyfjzbnwoJP+PzciBj6WVQDyCg5zRHnL45Og2 ikIy7g1ZatoyHnDFzj6LegEBzkMdWMGUxhU3PvvEKBGCx4/pIWv3T2UNEhq8o4EE fV9aBpGNliUistlJbNukmv6Foq8jyHixlD064igiMusLda8gMouzKPKf4+hEg/Aj UsiEm/QFCsUFWdQUdBFzKowhAwIu7ZAGr26a91ND8ehbaUdy+34thQ== =8Vx6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_21832243-2299-4097-964E-D62C1CC7BF87-- From nobody Tue Apr 7 16:00:20 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04F651A1B6D for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2015 16:00:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.701 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gv4_oMAfPLyv for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2015 16:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x22a.google.com (mail-ob0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80CAE1A1B69 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2015 16:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbeb7 with SMTP id eb7so39614404obb.3 for ; Tue, 07 Apr 2015 16:00:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=yVnkR5M3ohgJBe2es6ZhpQ/J8NfKwDtTR/VCHHTKaOA=; b=J7YJiEIY952fqwpgKRf0T1xvLi7u97wbTvC1Tmk2ZSpzrU5R6g6pr3hvGpFnJ4HmSO oOyKGLj4RG4bfeKv23CMjsss0oCnn7omg8ruKh+kh7xrWxW8BsF1Rrujlk1w9xlt6S11 85L0YpC/cs+Bgpj4Rbdxr50ZHL22sTAxB7Nn72uhjrN5JS316SUWiu0QyEOdB686Cd+D yzOm1lnURzKd+Nl2Y/vjWshbRaB9g9cWxlT0SX1NW9OlZkAzOabDbWHTLTO4KzXx3nTh VMoC1hl+pgrM3UBShNqPLlSgoyj1jDcVoXpAi62xAPRrJtKmAQGggr/hNvo1TzmuFRr6 eB/A== X-Received: by 10.182.128.33 with SMTP id nl1mr27562975obb.3.1428447613010; Tue, 07 Apr 2015 16:00:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.152.163 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Apr 2015 15:59:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: "Mukom Akong T." Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 02:59:32 +0400 Message-ID: To: sunset4@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=e89a8ff2544c8de15605132a6099 Archived-At: Subject: [sunset4] Fwd: Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-06 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2015 23:00:18 -0000 --e89a8ff2544c8de15605132a6099 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff2544c8de15105132a6097 --e89a8ff2544c8de15105132a6097 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I committed to reviewing this draft. I only have one suggestion for the authors to improve legibility: itemising the specific set of criteria for review in section 2. I also attach the reviewed document. P/S: This is my first review so I might not be aware of a proper procedure to submit it, please point me to the right procedure if this isn't it. Regards. --=20 Mukom Akong T. http://about.me/perfexcellence | twitter: @perfexcellent ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------- =E2=80=9CWhen you work, you are the FLUTE through whose lungs the whisperin= g of the hours turns to MUSIC" - Kahlil Gibran ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------- --=20 Mukom Akong T. http://about.me/perfexcellence | twitter: @perfexcellent ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------------------------- =E2=80=9CWhen you work, you are the FLUTE through whose lungs the whisperin= g of the hours turns to MUSIC" - Kahlil Gibran ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------- --e89a8ff2544c8de15105132a6097 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I committed to reviewing this draft. I only have one sugge= stion for the authors to improve legibility: itemising the =C2=A0specific s= et of criteria for review in section 2.

I also attach the reviewed document.
<= div>
P/S: This is my first review so I might not be aware of = a proper procedure to submit it, please point me to the right procedure if = this isn't it.

Regards.
--

Mukom Akong T.

http://about.me/perfe= xcellence | =C2=A0twitter: @perfexcellent
--------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------
=E2=80=9CWhen you work, you = are the FLUTE through whose lungs the whispering of the hours turns to MUSI= C" - Kahlil Gibran
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Mukom Akong T.

http://about.me/perfexcellence | =C2=A0twitter: @perf= excellent
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=E2=80=9CWhen you work, you are the FLUTE through whose lungs th= e whispering of the hours turns to MUSIC" - Kahlil Gibran
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(ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BgvIX4mqVS8N; Thu, 9 Apr 2015 08:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdpipgw01.twcable.com (cdpipgw01.twcable.com [165.237.59.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A86F1A8777; Thu, 9 Apr 2015 08:20:23 -0700 (PDT) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.12 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,550,1422939600"; d="scan'208";a="851854562" Received: from unknown (HELO PRVPEXHUB03.corp.twcable.com) ([10.136.163.12]) by cdpipgw01.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 09 Apr 2015 11:05:59 -0400 Received: from PRVPEXVS10.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.40]) by PRVPEXHUB03.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.12]) with mapi; Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:20:22 -0400 From: "George, Wes" To: "Fred Baker (fred)" Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:20:26 -0400 Thread-Topic: [sunset4] [v6ops] IPv4 trajectory Thread-Index: AdBy2LJ8cVZsi0zoS0KflxyLWDnfCQ== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: IPv6 Ops WG , "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] [v6ops] IPv4 trajectory X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 15:20:26 -0000 SSB0aGluayB5b3UgbWVhbiAiaXQgaXMgKm5vdCogZmVhc2libGUiIGluIDMuNA0KDQpHZW5lcmFs bHksIEkgdGhpbmsgdXBkYXRlcyB0byB0aGUgdHJhbnNpdGlvbiBndWlkYW5jZSBhcmUgc29tZXdo YXQgdXNlZnVsLA0KYXQgbGVhc3QgYWNrbm93bGVkZ2luZyB0aGF0IGR1ZSB0byB0aGUgbGltaXRl ZCBhbW91bnQgb2YgSVB2NCBhZGRyZXNzDQpzcGFjZSBhdmFpbGFibGUsIHRoZSBub3Rpb24gb2Yg Y29udGludWVkIHBhcmFsbGVsIHN1cHBvcnQgZm9yIElQdjQgc3VjaA0KdGhhdCB5b3UgY2FuIHBy b3ZpZGUgdHJ1bHkgbmF0aXZlIGR1YWwtc3RhY2sgaXMgZ29pbmcgdG8gYmVjb21lDQppbmNyZWFz 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dGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGltbWVkaWF0ZWx5IGFuZCBwZXJtYW5lbnRseSBkZWxldGUgdGhlIG9y aWdpbmFsIGFuZCBhbnkgY29weSBvZiB0aGlzIEUtbWFpbCBhbmQgYW55IHByaW50b3V0Lg0K From nobody Mon Apr 13 00:46:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2D351A1F70 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 00:46:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.062 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.062 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 91s6UEKy1ILC for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 00:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8976F1A1BFF for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 00:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3F8A4A1; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 09:46:34 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1428911194; bh=Qpv5LCEzAKPRZJmnGmUpTUynMazCmBVhBDoErr8rcDM=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=iMn87QlXfKhP/FRDkfxbbyY+KrOZby9V24E0FOY4ENoqRm5q8wK7aGhMlYC5eV0wd afYyDbnKJJ0QQ/K1pq6qdgPr7gPB1fgQSfnzTUfBA5fYlbKRglBnHfV5t1LbbuYHJ0 tdJ9g4C8n8WE4Apb/W3XHeICIC//TkgNjmLPmDvk= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 382809F; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 09:46:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 09:46:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: "Mukom Akong T." In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Archived-At: Cc: sunset4@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sunset4] Fwd: Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-06 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 07:46:38 -0000 On Wed, 8 Apr 2015, Mukom Akong T. wrote: > I committed to reviewing this draft. I only have one suggestion for the > authors to improve legibility: itemising the specific set of criteria for > review in section 2. > > I also attach the reviewed document. > > P/S: This is my first review so I might not be aware of a proper procedure > to submit it, please point me to the right procedure if this isn't it. I also promised to review this document. I found nothing objectionable in the document, it looks useful and I support it. I had a thought though, I remember a linux kernel message I saw a long time ago regarding an soon-to-be-deprecated API, and that it gave syslog warnings that a certain process used it. Would it make sense to recommend operating system manufacturers to implement functions so admins/users could see what applications uses legacy IPv4-only-APIs? Or perhaps just say that a gap is that it's hard for the user to know what applications use ipv4-only API and thus they could be helped by understanding this better to know if they can turn off IPv4 completely or if they need to keep it running but might firewall it or something? -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Mon Apr 13 16:58:28 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D73971B29E7; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 16:58:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -113.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-113.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham 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X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AOBQBmVyxV/4ENJK1SCoMMUlwFgxCCCMFPhgEegSRMAQEBAQEBfoQiBCMKRwUSAUABCQIEMCcEDhMGB4gPDbZylhgBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXiiyFGAYLAVGCby+BFgWGWYgIgiuBboEzWIYWgR06hjyFT4M9g00igVuCFHCBCjl/AQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,573,1422921600"; d="txt'?html'217?scan'217,208,217";a="411548737" Received: from alln-core-9.cisco.com ([173.36.13.129]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Apr 2015 23:57:52 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com [173.36.12.88]) by alln-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t3DNvqoH003293 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 13 Apr 2015 23:57:52 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([169.254.9.151]) by xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com ([173.36.12.88]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 18:57:52 -0500 From: "Fred Baker (fred)" To: IPv6 Ops WG Thread-Topic: v6ops charter update discussion Thread-Index: AQHQdkWm8ikSWPZ7MU+dYPCm4QvW9g== Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 23:57:52 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bGFyIHdvcmsgaXRlbS4gSWYgdGhlcmUgaXMgbm8gbG9uZ2VyIHN1ZmZpY2llbnRcbmludGVyZXN0 IGluIHRoZSBXRyBpbiBhIHdvcmsgaXRlbSwgdGhlIGl0ZW0gbWF5IGJlIHJlbW92ZWQgZnJvbSB0 aGVcbmxpc3Qgb2YgV0cgaXRlbXMuXG5cblNwZWNpZnlpbmcgYW55IHByb3RvY29scyBvciB0cmFu c2l0aW9uIG1lY2hhbmlzbXMgaXMgb3V0IG9mIHNjb3BlXG5vZiB0aGUgV0cuXG4nLCAndXJsMSc6 ICcnLCAnc3VibWl0JzogJ0dlbmVyYXRlIGRpZmYnLCAndXJsMic6ICcnLCAnLS1uZXdjb2xvdXIn OiAnZ3JlZW4nfSAtLT48L2JvZHk+PC9odG1sPg== --_003_AD667352663E4333ACFD2BA0919482E0ciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Apr 13 22:19:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7FD91B3398; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 22:19:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.661 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ngK9_FaNhDW4; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 22:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C17C1B3393; Mon, 13 Apr 2015 22:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2A6ECA1; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 07:19:33 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1428988773; bh=fPFkXxnewBzGEKHs6pYpb3FCizibDBVtvSf4X8PRycg=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Ok8FrrroxWNo+j/QXy172vhUxn+vaMDlYIH3DQXnKTejMwGrpN9O7kJ+HxufwHigc aiO0cja1RgGENeAsK8sD58+bYed2y2bB2qsW7Pxq4HCSpz9GAzfm/ID4UicxzW/C/0 tjAqqXFpFxM/d10g3UIiJZwnHRNRLhAmPrk+IyVM= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8239F; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 07:19:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 07:19:33 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: "Fred Baker (fred)" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-137064504-1792334646-1428988773=:16871" Archived-At: Cc: IPv6 Ops WG , "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] [v6ops] v6ops charter update discussion X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 05:19:38 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---137064504-1792334646-1428988773=:16871 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Mon, 13 Apr 2015, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: > Lee and I are reviewing the v6ops charter. I have attached a proposed charter and diffs against the current one. Joel has not commented on this yet, and while we have run it by the sunset4 chairs, we haven’t gotten a reading from them. Sunset4 is relevant because possibly the ipv4-as-a-service discussion would be better handled there. In this email, I’m soliciting opinions in general. > > The charter update started with Lee feeling that the fourth bullet of our current charter, which reads > 4. Publish Informational or BCP RFCs that identify and analyze > solutions for deploying IPv6 within common network environments, > such as ISP Networks, Enterprise Networks, Unmanaged Networks > (Home/Small Office), and Cellular Networks. > (http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/v6ops/charter/) > is largely done. We know how to deploy IPv6. Hm, while I generally agree with you, does this mean that these kinds of RFCs will be out-of-scope for v6ops going forward? I would hate for us to take this out of the charter and then turn people away when they show up with a document for a solution we didn't think of yet. Or perhaps paragraph 1 is enough to allow for capturing these kinds of documents? > 4. Describe an operational roadmap to IPv6-only network deployment, > with or without IPv4 delivered as an overlay or translation > service. Fully agreed. > On another point, Lee and I have been discussing the operational reports > we had at IETF 92, and feel that was time well spent. Those had a common > thread, which was the deployment of Softwire’s MAP-E and MAP-T > technologies in their networks. We are thinking about asking companies > deploying IPv6 in Europe, Asia, and South America to make reports in the > coming three meetings, on their IPv6 deployments and the issues they > face. Would that be of general interest? How would you propose to tune > that concept? I think this is worthwile, as long as it's not going to be come a long list of 10-15 minute presentations saying the same thing. For those, we can keep it on the list. I always welcome operational reports in the meetings, but they need to contain news, not "we experienced the same thing as and solved it the same way". I would like to hear from the ds.lite deployers out there, I know they exist. Also from 464XLAT+NAT64 deployments (probably in mobile). -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se ---137064504-1792334646-1428988773=:16871-- From nobody Tue Apr 14 03:26:57 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFA4E1A8830 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 03:26:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G5RfIj76iTTA for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 03:26:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEE731A882E for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 03:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BRJ41137; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:26:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.71) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 11:26:49 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.31]) by SZXEMA412-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.71]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 18:26:36 +0800 From: "Huangjing (A)" To: "Donley, Chris (Cable Labs)" Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHP2/3Rwmp6d3eiP0aaO1Hkh+DnzJwXwA+AgSK5zwCAEwi4MA== Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:26:35 +0000 Message-ID: <774B240D54DAB844B37EE80C2DD8E8BC6492909D@SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <20140929155531.9911.46197.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <54298319.7010605@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.114.194] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: "sunset4@ietf.org" , Tom Taylor Subject: Re: [sunset4] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 10:26:57 -0000 Hi, Chris, Could you please help to confirm the IPR issue? Thanks a lot! I am one of the co-authors. Best Regards James > -----Original Message----- > From: sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of George, Wes > Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2015 11:45 PM > To: Tom Taylor; sunset4@ietf.org > Cc: Donley, Chris (Cable Labs) > Subject: Re: [sunset4] Fwd: New Version Notification for > draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt >=20 > Authors - >=20 > Based on the discussion during the meeting in Dallas, please publish a ne= w > version of this with a slightly different name. We will not link the two = in > "replaces", and this will clear the existing IPR encumbrance. >=20 > Separately, will the cable Labs folks confirm that the new draft does not= have > any of your IPR in it? >=20 > Once this is completed, we will call for WG adoption. Sorry for the Texas > two-step, but this was the recommended way to address the IPR concerns. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Wes >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 9/29/14, 12:04 PM, "Tom Taylor" wrote: >=20 > >Draft has been posted. Detailed changes as described in the response to > >Lee Howard's review, plus deletion of the section on deterministic CGN > >as agreed in Toronto. > > > >Tom Taylor > > > >-------- Original Message -------- > >Subject: New Version Notification for > >draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt > >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:55:31 -0700 > >From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > >To: Tom Taylor , Weibo Li > >, James Huang , Gang > Chen > >, Weibo Li , Tina Tsou > >, Jing Huang , > >Tina Tsou , Tom Taylor > >, Gang Chen > > > > > >A new version of I-D, draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt > >has been successfully submitted by Tom Taylor and posted to the IETF > >repository. > > > >Name: draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation > >Revision: 05 > >Title: Analysis of NAT64 Port Allocation Methods for Shared IPv4 > >Addresses > >Document date: 2014-09-29 > >Group: Individual Submission > >Pages: 19 > >URL: > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocat > >ion > >-05.txt > >Status: > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation > >/ > >Htmlized: > >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05 > >Diff: > >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocatio= n > >-05 > > > >Abstract: > > This document enumerates methods of port assignment in Carrier Grade > > NATs (CGNs), focused particularly on NAT64 environments. A > > theoretical framework of different NAT port allocation methods is > > described. The memo is intended to clarify and focus the port > > allocation discussion and propose an integrated view of the > > considerations for selection of the port allocation mechanism in a > > given deployment. > > > > > > > > > > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > >submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > >tools.ietf.org. > > > >The IETF Secretariat > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >sunset4 mailing list > >sunset4@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 >=20 >=20 > This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable > proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to > copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely = for the > use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not = the > intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any disse= mination, > distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and > attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If= you > have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately = and > permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any print= out. > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 From nobody Tue Apr 14 07:15:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE471A92FC for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 07:15:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.226 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.226 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AMM7LLxRNeoV for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 07:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ondar.cablelabs.com (ondar.cablelabs.com [192.160.73.61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B41B71A92BA for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 07:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kyzyl.cablelabs.com (kyzyl [10.253.0.7]) by ondar.cablelabs.com (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id t3EEFMKQ010386; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 08:15:22 -0600 Received: from exchange.cablelabs.com (10.5.0.19) by kyzyl.cablelabs.com (F-Secure/fsigk_smtp/407/kyzyl.cablelabs.com); Tue, 14 Apr 2015 08:15:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Virus-Status: clean(F-Secure/fsigk_smtp/407/kyzyl.cablelabs.com) Received: from EXCHANGE.cablelabs.com ([::1]) by EXCHANGE.cablelabs.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 08:15:20 -0600 From: Chris Donley To: "Huangjing (A)" Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt Thread-Index: AdBtW/tM+iOpA6zgSvmhSlwuC3ZKdwJc8ryA///be4A= Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:15:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20140929155531.9911.46197.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <54298319.7010605@gmail.com> <774B240D54DAB844B37EE80C2DD8E8BC6492909D@SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <774B240D54DAB844B37EE80C2DD8E8BC6492909D@SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 x-originating-ip: [10.4.11.23] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8AA7FFF3D644614384E6964FFE9E9DC5@cablelabs.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "sunset4@ietf.org" , Tom Taylor Subject: Re: [sunset4] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:15:34 -0000 Confirmed - you have removed our IPR. One note is that our deterministic CGN document has been published as RFC 7422. Would you please update the reference in your next release? Thanks, Chris On 4/14/15 4:26 AM, "Huangjing (A)" wrote: >Hi, Chris, > >Could you please help to confirm the IPR issue? Thanks a lot! > >I am one of the co-authors. > >Best Regards >James > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of George, Wes >> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2015 11:45 PM >> To: Tom Taylor; sunset4@ietf.org >> Cc: Donley, Chris (Cable Labs) >> Subject: Re: [sunset4] Fwd: New Version Notification for >> draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt >>=20 >> Authors - >>=20 >> Based on the discussion during the meeting in Dallas, please publish a >>new >> version of this with a slightly different name. We will not link the >>two in >> "replaces", and this will clear the existing IPR encumbrance. >>=20 >> Separately, will the cable Labs folks confirm that the new draft does >>not have >> any of your IPR in it? >>=20 >> Once this is completed, we will call for WG adoption. Sorry for the >>Texas >> two-step, but this was the recommended way to address the IPR concerns. >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> Wes >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 9/29/14, 12:04 PM, "Tom Taylor" wrote: >>=20 >> >Draft has been posted. Detailed changes as described in the response to >> >Lee Howard's review, plus deletion of the section on deterministic CGN >> >as agreed in Toronto. >> > >> >Tom Taylor >> > >> >-------- Original Message -------- >> >Subject: New Version Notification for >> >draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt >> >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:55:31 -0700 >> >From: internet-drafts@ietf.org >> >To: Tom Taylor , Weibo Li >> >, James Huang , Gang >> Chen >> >, Weibo Li , Tina Tsou >> >, Jing Huang , >> >Tina Tsou , Tom Taylor >> >, Gang Chen >> > >> > >> >A new version of I-D, draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt >> >has been successfully submitted by Tom Taylor and posted to the IETF >> >repository. >> > >> >Name: draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation >> >Revision: 05 >> >Title: Analysis of NAT64 Port Allocation Methods for Shared >>IPv4 >> >Addresses >> >Document date: 2014-09-29 >> >Group: Individual Submission >> >Pages: 19 >> >URL: >> >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocat >> >ion >> >-05.txt >> >Status: >> >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation >> >/ >> >Htmlized: >> >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05 >> >Diff: >> >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocati= on >> >-05 >> > >> >Abstract: >> > This document enumerates methods of port assignment in Carrier >>Grade >> > NATs (CGNs), focused particularly on NAT64 environments. A >> > theoretical framework of different NAT port allocation methods is >> > described. The memo is intended to clarify and focus the port >> > allocation discussion and propose an integrated view of the >> > considerations for selection of the port allocation mechanism in a >> > given deployment. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> >submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at >> >tools.ietf.org. >> > >> >The IETF Secretariat >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >sunset4 mailing list >> >sunset4@ietf.org >> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 >>=20 >>=20 >> This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable >> proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject >>to >> copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended >>solely for the >> use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are >>not the >> intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any >>dissemination, >> distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of >>and >> attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. >>If you >> have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender >>immediately and >> permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any >>printout. >> _______________________________________________ >> sunset4 mailing list >> sunset4@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 From nobody Tue Apr 14 13:51:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE4721A1BAA; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:51:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9w_72xVkFwpt; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x235.google.com (mail-pd0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C57F1A1B9C; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pdbqd1 with SMTP id qd1so25368335pdb.2; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:51:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=AfJqHyfZ1E7Upcakq1RAxDQ/ijrd2NViF7YZrmEaZ1o=; b=O6z6YhGu8H3XgFxY8Ly1PdhLdF+OjAysu6GPYdUeVa0PhvcjEtP6gdGxySFfBQLHMF M28VSabvVd4jbp29vxEUmU3xXdTe7grASVZVYWiSfAfz7BUy3C53vhmL2wgHmbXMDlRQ MV1JdhW+cRH8gnxXXIVom5gaAV9QM3Oc8WgTfDFFacssi+IRuC0JzY/CujGH6kP4ALLi L2H9c/BprEIi7Gr4797bAQ7hqHzQaHdPmU/KsK7BJI093FtrrXJBtY8b6J2DAjqbtZe2 1rScVP2ji3UCqcK+yaEVyCp3f8JbjfmiIdj8NAeIbF8QtffHi+5sRVMzRMO+q4EYvs2V L8wA== X-Received: by 10.70.129.202 with SMTP id ny10mr39443189pdb.107.1429044709165; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:632e:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:632e:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id yy2sm1986641pbb.6.2015.04.14.13.51.45 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 Apr 2015 13:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <552D7DE3.8060607@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 08:51:47 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mikael Abrahamsson , "Fred Baker (fred)" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: IPv6 Ops WG , "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] [v6ops] v6ops charter update discussion X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:51:51 -0000 On 14/04/2015 17:19, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > On Mon, 13 Apr 2015, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: >=20 >> Lee and I are reviewing the v6ops charter. I have attached a proposed = charter and diffs against the current one. Joel has not >> commented on this yet, and while we have run it by the sunset4 chairs,= we haven=E2=80=99t gotten a reading from them. Sunset4 is >> relevant because possibly the ipv4-as-a-service discussion would be be= tter handled there. In this email, I=E2=80=99m soliciting >> opinions in general. >> >> The charter update started with Lee feeling that the fourth bullet of = our current charter, which reads >> 4. Publish Informational or BCP RFCs that identify and analyze >> solutions for deploying IPv6 within common network environments,= >> such as ISP Networks, Enterprise Networks, Unmanaged Networks >> (Home/Small Office), and Cellular Networks. >> (http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/v6ops/charter/) >> is largely done. We know how to deploy IPv6. >=20 > Hm, while I generally agree with you, does this mean that these kinds o= f RFCs will be out-of-scope for v6ops going forward? I > would hate for us to take this out of the charter and then turn people = away when they show up with a document for a solution we > didn't think of yet. I agree that we should not exclude such work, and it could be that the existing documents need corrections, but on the other hand the time for soliciting new work in this area is past. > Or perhaps paragraph 1 is enough to allow for capturing these kinds of = documents? Yes, because it mentions "solutions". >> 4. Describe an operational roadmap to IPv6-only network deployment,= >> with or without IPv4 delivered as an overlay or translation >> service. >=20 > Fully agreed. >=20 >> On another point, Lee and I have been discussing the operational repor= ts we had at IETF 92, and feel that was time well spent. >> Those had a common thread, which was the deployment of Softwire=E2=80=99= s MAP-E and MAP-T technologies in their networks. We are >> thinking about asking companies deploying IPv6 in Europe, Asia, and So= uth America to make reports in the coming three >> meetings, on their IPv6 deployments and the issues they face. Would th= at be of general interest? How would you propose to tune >> that concept? >=20 > I think this is worthwile, as long as it's not going to be come a long = list of 10-15 minute presentations saying the same thing. > For those, we can keep it on the list. I always welcome operational rep= orts in the meetings, but they need to contain news, not > "we experienced the same thing as and solved it the same way". Correct, and I don't think it needs to be strictly regional, although that may be a travel optimisation. I would suggesting soliciting lightnin= g talks on ipv6-ops@lists.cluenet.de. There are handy messages there from time to time, like http://lists.cluenet.de/pipermail/ipv6-ops/2014-December/010402.html Brian >=20 > I would like to hear from the ds.lite deployers out there, I know they = exist. Also from 464XLAT+NAT64 deployments (probably in > mobile). >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops >=20 From nobody Tue Apr 14 20:49:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C815B1B2B4B; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:49:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nAoCbnyfIrNc; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C4FF1A90EE; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mb-aye.local ([IPv6:2601:9:3402:7bb1:a91b:59a7:3bc0:aa1a]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id t3F3nFne098641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:49:16 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) To: "Fred Baker (fred)" , IPv6 Ops WG references: From: joel jaeggli x-enigmail-draft-status: N1110 message-id: <552DDFBA.6000104@bogus.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 20:49:14 -0700 user-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.0 mime-version: 1.0 in-reply-to: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="w2SXp8bSxc4DmjNn7V9i4Hi59hGXbwq3g" Archived-At: Cc: "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] v6ops charter update discussion X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 03:49:26 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --w2SXp8bSxc4DmjNn7V9i4Hi59hGXbwq3g Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 4/13/15 4:57 PM, Fred Baker (fred) wrote: > Lee and I are reviewing the v6ops charter. I have attached a proposed > charter and diffs against the current one. Joel has not commented on > this yet, and while we have run it by the sunset4 chairs, we haven=92t > gotten a reading from them. Sunset4 is relevant because possibly the > ipv4-as-a-service discussion would be better handled there. In this > email, I=92m soliciting opinions in general. not to cast aspersions in any direction in particular, but if we seem operators running such things and have cause to provide advice on them then by all means I'm fine with that here. that seems consistent with work on for example 464xlat > The charter update started with Lee feeling that the fourth bullet of > our current charter, which reads 4. Publish Informational or BCP RFCs > that identify and analyze solutions for deploying IPv6 within common > network environments, such as ISP Networks, Enterprise Networks, > Unmanaged Networks (Home/Small Office), and Cellular Networks.=20 > (http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/v6ops/charter/) is largely done. We > know how to deploy IPv6. I largely agree that some victory can be declared there. > In addition, I think we need, collectively, to figure out how to get > to IPv6-only. A large issue is =93so how do we connect to IPv4 content > and services from an IPv6-only network=94, which is where > ipv4-as-a-service comes in. I propose adding a bullet item regarding > a road map to IPv6-only. I think we're probably front-running the community of contributors by a fair bit, but I think there are people and projects niddling around the edges even as they employ some transition mechanism for backwards compatibility. > 4. Describe an operational roadmap to IPv6-only network deployment,=20 > with or without IPv4 delivered as an overlay or translation service. > > In my mind, that includes operational discussions of deployments and > deployment issues in IPv4-as-a-service; one possible update would be > to make that more explicit. >=20 > In other respects, the update is mostly editorial. >=20 > The other three tasks remain unchanged - collect operational > experience, identify operational and security risks, and turn them > over to other working groups - notably 6man. yup > Hoping for your input. Do you agree with these changes? If not, what > changes, or further changes, would you recommend? >=20 > As to proposed milestones, I=92d like to believe that >=20 > these are done: draft-ietf-v6ops-6to4-to-historic=20 > draft-ietf-v6ops-cidr-prefix >=20 > we can finalize and ship these by July:=20 > draft-ietf-v6ops-design-choices draft-ietf-v6ops-pmtud-ecmp-problem >=20 > and these by November: draft-ietf-v6ops-siit-dc-* (would like a > deployment report for siit-dc and siit-dc-2xlat in support) (would > like one for 464xlat as well) >=20 > On another point, Lee and I have been discussing the operational > reports we had at IETF 92, and feel that was time well spent. Those > had a common thread, which was the deployment of Softwire=92s MAP-E and= > MAP-T technologies in their networks. We are thinking about asking > companies deploying IPv6 in Europe, Asia, and South America to make > reports in the coming three meetings, on their IPv6 deployments and > the issues they face. Would that be of general interest? How would > you propose to tune that concept? >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ sunset4 mailing list=20 > sunset4@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 >=20 --w2SXp8bSxc4DmjNn7V9i4Hi59hGXbwq3g Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.22 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iEYEARECAAYFAlUt37oACgkQ8AA1q7Z/VrInhQCfboo/mXoShw6+jzperiy+VRB3 EwYAn3M5uqDcPxwSGtcGhClRGGLHPcup =a+nc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --w2SXp8bSxc4DmjNn7V9i4Hi59hGXbwq3g-- From nobody Tue Apr 14 21:43:48 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE77B1B2C15 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:43:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.012 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.012 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SJlk-5vXEqUW for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta3.chinamobile.com (cmccmta3.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B93001B2C10 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.1]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app12-12012 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2eec552dec65f2b-3e2a6; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:43:18 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2eec552dec65f2b-3e2a6 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmccPC (unknown[223.69.29.129]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr01-12001 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee1552dec64ab2-6e403; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:43:18 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee1552dec64ab2-6e403 From: "Fan, Peng" To: "'Mukom Akong T.'" , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:43:14 +0800 Message-ID: <002601d07736$b1b8ec10$152ac430$@chinamobile.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01D07779.BFDEC420" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHfZkjvV0SZoUNPXZcpDPuo1l+PgQJBA0i7nR2YU/A= Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sunset4] Fwd: Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-06 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 04:43:47 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01D07779.BFDEC420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Mukom for the review. Your comments will be incorporated in = the next revision of the draft. =20 Best regards, Peng =20 From: sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mukom Akong = T. Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 7:00 AM To: sunset4@ietf.org Subject: [sunset4] Fwd: Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-06 =20 I committed to reviewing this draft. I only have one suggestion for the = authors to improve legibility: itemising the specific set of criteria = for review in section 2. =20 I also attach the reviewed document. =20 P/S: This is my first review so I might not be aware of a proper = procedure to submit it, please point me to the right procedure if this = isn't it. =20 Regards. --=20 Mukom Akong T. http://about.me/perfexcellence | twitter: @perfexcellent=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------------------------------------------------------- =E2=80=9CWhen you work, you are the FLUTE through whose lungs the = whispering of the hours turns to MUSIC" - Kahlil Gibran -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------------------------------------ =20 --=20 Mukom Akong T. http://about.me/perfexcellence | twitter: @perfexcellent=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------------------------------------------------------- =E2=80=9CWhen you work, you are the FLUTE through whose lungs the = whispering of the hours turns to MUSIC" - Kahlil Gibran -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01D07779.BFDEC420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thank you Mukom for the review. Your comments will be incorporated in = the next revision of the draft.

 

Best regards,

Peng

 

From:= sunset4 = [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mukom Akong = T.
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 7:00 AM
To: = sunset4@ietf.org
Subject: [sunset4] Fwd: Review of = draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-06

 

I committed to reviewing this = draft. I only have one suggestion for the authors to improve legibility: = itemising the  specific set of criteria for review in section = 2.

 

I also attach the reviewed = document.

 

P/S: This is my first review so I = might not be aware of a proper procedure to submit it, please point me = to the right procedure if this isn't = it.

 

Regards.

--


Mukom = Akong T.

http://about.me/perfexcellence |  twitter: = @perfexcellent =
---------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------
= =E2=80=9CWhen you work, you are the FLUTE through whose lungs the = whispering of the hours turns to MUSIC" - Kahlil = Gibran
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---



 

--


Mukom Akong T.

http://about.me/perfexcellence |  twitter: = @perfexcellent =
---------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------
= =E2=80=9CWhen you work, you are the FLUTE through whose lungs the = whispering of the hours turns to MUSIC" - Kahlil = Gibran
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---

------=_NextPart_000_0027_01D07779.BFDEC420-- From nobody Tue Apr 14 21:44:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 346221B2C14 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:44:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.21 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LVE0LYhaPAzn for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta2.chinamobile.com (cmccmta2.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A4B941B2C10 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.3]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app08-12008 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee8552decaf6df-3ea7c; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:44:33 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee8552decaf6df-3ea7c X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmccPC (unknown[223.69.29.129]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr02-12002 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee2552decaf8c1-71e34; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:44:33 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee2552decaf8c1-71e34 From: "Fan, Peng" To: "'Mikael Abrahamsson'" , "'Mukom Akong T.'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:44:32 +0800 Message-ID: <002b01d07736$de30bde0$9a9239a0$@chinamobile.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHfZkjvV0SZoUNPXZcpDPuo1l+PgQJBA0i7A5xaoq6dAJYOEA== Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: Cc: sunset4@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sunset4] Fwd: Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-06 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 04:44:43 -0000 Thank you Mikael for the review. Section 5 deals with operating system related issues. I rewrite Problem 8 a little, please see if it reflects your concerns. Regarding the recommendation of OS developer implementing functions to reveal IPv4 dependency, it seems to be a solution idea that can be seen as a candidate of the words "how to discover existing dependencies" in appendix A.3 (also rewrite as follows). I guess this requires the OS to have an exhaustive list of legacy IPv4-only APIs and a runtime knowledge of what APIs are currently called by what applications, and I would also like to hear the opinion of the WG if this is an implementable and rational way that OS is expected to realize. //PROBLEM 8 OLD: Completely disabling IPv4 at runtime often reveals implementation bugs. Hard-coded dependencies on IPv4 abound, such as on the 127.0.0.1 address assigned to the loopback interface. It is therefore often operationally impossible to completely disable IPv4 on individual nodes. NEW: Completely disabling IPv4 at runtime often reveals implementation bugs. Hard-coded dependencies on IPv4 abound, such as on the 127.0.0.1 address assigned to the loopback interface, and legacy IPv4-only APIs are widely used by applications. It is hard for the administrators and users to know what applications running on the operating system have implementation problems of IPv4 dependency. It is therefore often operationally impossible to completely disable IPv4 on individual nodes. //Appendix A.3 OLD: It would be useful for the IETF to provide guidelines to programmers on how to avoid creating dependencies on IPv4, how to discover existing dependencies, and how to eliminate them. Having programs and operating systems that behave well in an IPv6-only environment is prerequisite for IPv4 sunsetting. NEW: It would be useful for the IETF to provide guidelines to programmers on how to avoid creating dependencies on IPv4, how to discover existing dependencies, and how to eliminate them. It would be useful if operating systems provide functions for users to see what applications uses legacy IPv4-only APIs, so they can know it better whether they can turn off IPv4 completely. Having programs and operating systems that behave well in an IPv6-only environment is prerequisite for IPv4 sunsetting. Best regards, Peng -----Original Message----- From: sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mikael Abrahamsson Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 3:47 PM To: Mukom Akong T. Cc: sunset4@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sunset4] Fwd: Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-06 On Wed, 8 Apr 2015, Mukom Akong T. wrote: > I committed to reviewing this draft. I only have one suggestion for > the authors to improve legibility: itemising the specific set of > criteria for review in section 2. > > I also attach the reviewed document. > > P/S: This is my first review so I might not be aware of a proper > procedure to submit it, please point me to the right procedure if this isn't it. I also promised to review this document. I found nothing objectionable in the document, it looks useful and I support it. I had a thought though, I remember a linux kernel message I saw a long time ago regarding an soon-to-be-deprecated API, and that it gave syslog warnings that a certain process used it. Would it make sense to recommend operating system manufacturers to implement functions so admins/users could see what applications uses legacy IPv4-only-APIs? Or perhaps just say that a gap is that it's hard for the user to know what applications use ipv4-only API and thus they could be helped by understanding this better to know if they can turn off IPv4 completely or if they need to keep it running but might firewall it or something? -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se _______________________________________________ sunset4 mailing list sunset4@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 From nobody Wed Apr 15 06:59:55 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03D031B3495; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 06:59:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.225 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.225 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XspgSzfigJ2K; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 06:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdpipgw01.twcable.com (cdpipgw01.twcable.com [165.237.59.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C98C1A90A3; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 06:59:50 -0700 (PDT) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.12 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,582,1422939600"; d="scan'208";a="854337084" Received: from unknown (HELO PRVPEXHUB03.corp.twcable.com) ([10.136.163.12]) by cdpipgw01.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 15 Apr 2015 09:44:55 -0400 Received: from PRVPEXVS10.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.41]) by PRVPEXHUB03.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.12]) with mapi; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:59:49 -0400 From: "George, Wes" To: "Fred Baker (fred)" , IPv6 Ops WG Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:59:48 -0400 Thread-Topic: [v6ops] v6ops charter update discussion Thread-Index: AdB3hG+slPpV2G3pTNuZbTGOCfKhIA== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.9.150325 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] [v6ops] v6ops charter update discussion X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:59:53 -0000 T24gNC8xMy8xNSwgNzo1NyBQTSwgIkZyZWQgQmFrZXIgKGZyZWQpIiA8ZnJlZEBjaXNjby5jb20+ IHdyb3RlOg0KDQoNCj5MZWUgYW5kIEkgYXJlIHJldmlld2luZyB0aGUgdjZvcHMgY2hhcnRlci4g SSBoYXZlIGF0dGFjaGVkIGEgcHJvcG9zZWQNCj5jaGFydGVyIGFuZCBkaWZmcyBhZ2FpbnN0IHRo ZSBjdXJyZW50IG9uZS4gSm9lbCBoYXMgbm90IGNvbW1lbnRlZCBvbiB0aGlzDQo+eWV0LCBhbmQg 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2LGNtT771DFN for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2015 10:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdcipgw02.twcable.com (cdcipgw02.twcable.com [165.237.91.111]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B88D31B2A0B for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2015 10:46:48 -0700 (PDT) X-SENDER-IP: 10.136.163.10 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,617,1422939600"; d="scan'208,217";a="241201658" Received: from unknown (HELO PRVPEXHUB01.corp.twcable.com) ([10.136.163.10]) by cdcipgw02.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/RC4-MD5; 21 Apr 2015 13:32:27 -0400 Received: from PRVPEXVS10.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.41]) by PRVPEXHUB01.corp.twcable.com ([10.136.163.10]) with mapi; Tue, 21 Apr 2015 13:46:47 -0400 From: "George, Wes" To: "sunset4@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 13:46:47 -0400 Thread-Topic: WG Adoption call for draft-chen-sunset4-nat64-port-allocation Thread-Index: AdB8WyOiX0GG6mrkQ/i+3lGM3Zd4Gg== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.9.150325 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D15C05474E335wesleygeorgetwcablecom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [sunset4] WG Adoption call for draft-chen-sunset4-nat64-port-allocation X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 17:46:51 -0000 --_000_D15C05474E335wesleygeorgetwcablecom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhpcyB3aWxsIHN0YXJ0IHRoZSB0d28gd2VlayBhZG9wdGlvbiBjYWxsIGZvciBkcmFmdC1jaGVu 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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.0.1.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20150422131430.9441.20647.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 06:14:30 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: sunset4@ietf.org Subject: [sunset4] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07.txt X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 13:14:33 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Sunsetting IPv4 Working Group of the IETF. Title : Gap Analysis for IPv4 Sunset Authors : Simon Perreault Tina Tsou Cathy Zhou Peng Fan Filename : draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2015-04-22 Abstract: Sunsetting IPv4 refers to the process of turning off IPv4 definitively. It can be seen as the final phase of the migration to IPv6. This memo enumerates difficulties arising when sunsetting IPv4, and identifies the gaps requiring additional work. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Apr 25 23:06:11 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8949E1A00DB for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 23:06:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LkyJHWBJzhgw for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 23:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x234.google.com (mail-wi0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D3C01B3625 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 23:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by widdi4 with SMTP id di4so64408689wid.0 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 23:06:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=B7tsnmTE1ryS1ukPgK1WOIn8QSxYj2ine8AKWfhfWEs=; b=J9+9woRpatoaRBtW5W+7mw/C4XqhPFi9zrQEoEzySzbFpJjUih3UOOzxwRrEyVaElG M0DaZRUQo8+Op/0SiBGYht7f8mKhovMIrHczmc9dVpHMAJn/gwfEgGCAgUHZpemWi5Re YSyvtMyZYFfTmTO8zztNnjH+tDY7E7HWZH1+ZFXR6/dxhWiH/D87AxXsccpOLszDk2o/ B3bILzs0TG9Epi04QE+b68Z8BmO7v+KoxZzZpOzhJRJs3vi75++NcH7H7t84CGYqcDRG OCMtoa2ykT5QRna4s9YdKUJkrBBduY4m94zsJOT8PHv8NbFSaZ0HDnx6sGWwl0DSXXxe 8FyQ== X-Received: by 10.194.121.68 with SMTP id li4mr11941123wjb.84.1430028366380; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 23:06:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.23.15 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Apr 2015 23:05:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Linhui Sun Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 14:05:45 +0800 Message-ID: To: sunset4@ietf.org, draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01176f11cc067f05149a6c8d Archived-At: Cc: cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.cn, fanpeng@chinamobile.com Subject: [sunset4] Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 06:06:09 -0000 --089e01176f11cc067f05149a6c8d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dear authors, I read this document and think it is really a good and useful work. The draft describes various problems that we may encounter when we desire to sunset the IPv4, also some corresponding solutions is available in the appendix. Meanwhile, I've got some minor questions and comments about this document. Since I'm not pretty much familiar with the sunset4 area, please correct me if I got something wrong. Some detailed comments: 1. In section 3.1, PROBLEM 2. Are the "default routers" just the "relay agents" in DHCP? If so, it would be better to use "relay agents" instead of the "default routers". 2. In section 3.2, the last paragraph. The text says "using this option requires running an IPv4 DHCP server". However, I think we could run a DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 server (RFC7341) here to solve the problem. DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 aims to solve the problem that DHCPv4 messages cannot be transported in pure IPv6 networks. Thus there is no need to design another equivalent protocol of RFC2563 using DHCPv6 as described in the section A.1.2. 3. In section 6, PROBLEM 13. You mentioned DHCP here, do you mean DHCP should also have a similar mechanism? Best Regards Linhui --089e01176f11cc067f05149a6c8d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear authors,

I read this document and = think it is really a good and useful work. The draft describes various prob= lems that we may encounter when we desire to sunset the IPv4, also some cor= responding solutions is available in the appendix.

Meanwhile, I've got some minor questions and comments about this docum= ent. Since I'm not pretty much familiar with the sunset4 area, please c= orrect me if I got something wrong.

Some detailed = comments:
1. In section 3.1, PROBLEM 2. Are the "default rou= ters" just the "relay agents" in DHCP? If so, it would be be= tter to use "relay agents" instead of the "default routers&q= uot;.

2. In section 3.2, the last paragraph. The t= ext says "using this option requires running an IPv4 DHCP server"= . However, I think we could run a DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 server (RFC7341) here = to solve the problem. DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 aims to solve the problem that DHC= Pv4 messages cannot be transported in pure IPv6 networks. Thus there is no = need to design another equivalent protocol of RFC2563 using DHCPv6 as descr= ibed in the section A.1.2.

3. In section 6, PROBLE= M 13. You mentioned DHCP here, do you mean DHCP should also have a similar = mechanism?

Best Regards
Linhui
--089e01176f11cc067f05149a6c8d-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 05:51:27 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D9401B314F for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 05:51:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.012 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.012 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nGhmQHCviHA3 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 05:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta2.chinamobile.com (cmccmta2.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9CAC21B314E for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 05:51:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.3]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app06-12006 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee6553e30c6cf5-481f6; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 20:51:19 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee6553e30c6cf5-481f6 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmccPC (unknown[10.2.52.166]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr02-12002 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee2553e30c6594-26673; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 20:51:19 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee2553e30c6594-26673 From: "Fan, Peng" To: "'Linhui Sun'" , , References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 20:51:19 +0800 Message-ID: <003901d080e8$db63c060$922b4120$@chinamobile.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01D0812B.E988FC30" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQH2tmz/2ZYtYLCzX2oeGHyzznY5Cp0UW5yw Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: Cc: cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.cn Subject: Re: [sunset4] Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 12:51:25 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01D0812B.E988FC30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Linhui, =20 Many thanks for the review and comments. I=E2=80=99ll give my = understanding of the second and third comments first. =20 Comment 2: I think RFC7341 solves the problem of transporting DHCPv4 message in an = IPv6 only network, but not disabling IPv4 address auto-configuration. I = think we can add RFC7341 to the second paragraph of A.1.2 as a = referential solution, and it should be used in combination with RFC2563. = In this way, IPv4 addr autoconf can be disabled over pure IPv6 access = network, but still running an IPv4 DHCP server is needed. =20 Comment 3: Problem 13 states that other provisioning protocols such as DHCP may = also develop similar on-demand IPv4 address provisioning mechanism as = proposed for PPP, thus we may encounter the same problem when using = those protocols. =20 Best regards, Peng =20 From: sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Linhui Sun Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 2:06 PM To: sunset4@ietf.org; draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org Cc: cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.cn; fanpeng@chinamobile.com Subject: [sunset4] Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07 =20 Dear authors, =20 I read this document and think it is really a good and useful work. The = draft describes various problems that we may encounter when we desire to = sunset the IPv4, also some corresponding solutions is available in the = appendix. =20 Meanwhile, I've got some minor questions and comments about this = document. Since I'm not pretty much familiar with the sunset4 area, = please correct me if I got something wrong. =20 Some detailed comments: 1. In section 3.1, PROBLEM 2. Are the "default routers" just the "relay = agents" in DHCP? If so, it would be better to use "relay agents" instead = of the "default routers". =20 2. In section 3.2, the last paragraph. The text says "using this option = requires running an IPv4 DHCP server". However, I think we could run a = DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 server (RFC7341) here to solve the problem. DHCPv4 = over DHCPv6 aims to solve the problem that DHCPv4 messages cannot be = transported in pure IPv6 networks. Thus there is no need to design = another equivalent protocol of RFC2563 using DHCPv6 as described in the = section A.1.2. =20 3. In section 6, PROBLEM 13. You mentioned DHCP here, do you mean DHCP = should also have a similar mechanism? =20 Best Regards Linhui ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01D0812B.E988FC30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Linhui,

 

Many thanks for the review and comments. I=E2=80=99ll give my = understanding of the second and third comments = first.

 

Comment 2:

I think RFC7341 solves the problem of transporting DHCPv4 message in = an IPv6 only network, but not disabling IPv4 address auto-configuration. = I think we can add RFC7341 to the second paragraph of A.1.2 as a = referential solution, and it should be used in combination with RFC2563. = In this way, IPv4 addr autoconf can be disabled over pure IPv6 access = network, but still running an IPv4 DHCP server is = needed.

 

Comment 3:

Problem 13 states that other provisioning protocols such as DHCP may = also develop similar on-demand IPv4 address provisioning mechanism as = proposed for PPP, thus we may encounter the same problem when using = those protocols.

 

Best regards,

Peng

 

From:= sunset4 = [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Linhui = Sun
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 2:06 PM
To: = sunset4@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org
Cc: = cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.cn; fanpeng@chinamobile.com
Subject: = [sunset4] Review of = draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07

 

Dear = authors,

 

I read this document and think it = is really a good and useful work. The draft describes various problems = that we may encounter when we desire to sunset the IPv4, also some = corresponding solutions is available in the = appendix.

 

Meanwhile, I've got some minor = questions and comments about this document. Since I'm not pretty much = familiar with the sunset4 area, please correct me if I got something = wrong.

 

Some detailed = comments:

1. In section 3.1, PROBLEM 2. Are the "default = routers" just the "relay agents" in DHCP? If so, it would = be better to use "relay agents" instead of the "default = routers".

 

2. In section 3.2, the last = paragraph. The text says "using this option requires running an = IPv4 DHCP server". However, I think we could run a DHCPv4 over = DHCPv6 server (RFC7341) here to solve the problem. DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 = aims to solve the problem that DHCPv4 messages cannot be transported in = pure IPv6 networks. Thus there is no need to design another equivalent = protocol of RFC2563 using DHCPv6 as described in the section = A.1.2.

 

3. In section 6, PROBLEM 13. You = mentioned DHCP here, do you mean DHCP should also have a similar = mechanism?

 

Best = Regards

Linhui

------=_NextPart_000_003A_01D0812B.E988FC30-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 07:07:22 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CBFB1A1A00 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 07:07:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.389 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.389 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VOBSp9rIpQkw for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 07:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta1.chinamobile.com (cmccmta1.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 004561A0AFE for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 07:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.1]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app03-12003 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee3553e3787605-48ba6; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:20:07 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee3553e3787605-48ba6 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmccPC (unknown[10.2.52.166]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr01-12001 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee1553e3784fa9-26de7; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:20:07 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee1553e3784fa9-26de7 From: "Fan, Peng" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:20:07 +0800 Message-ID: <005101d080ec$e1787730$a4696590$@chinamobile.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJ2iyB81nzJrC6J8fFd7ot16jmROAGvVuxKnAdIRhA= Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sunset4] WG Adoption call for draft-chen-sunset4-nat64-port-allocation X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 14:07:19 -0000 Support for adoption. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "George, Wes" Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 13:46:47 -0400 Subject: [sunset4] WG Adoption call for = draft-chen-sunset4-nat64-port-allocation To: "sunset4@ietf.org" This will start the two week adoption call for = draft-chen-sunset4-nat64-port-allocation. This is the draft that = previously was known as draft-chen-sunset4-cng-port-allocation but was = renamed once the IPR-encumbered text was removed. http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-sunset4-nat64-port-allocation/= Please send support for adoption to the list, as well as any comments to = improve the draft. This is a current charter milestone for the WG. Thanks, Wes Anything below this line has been added by my company=E2=80=99s mail = server, I have no control over it. ----------- ________________________________ This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable = proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject = to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended = solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. = If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby = notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken = in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is = strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this = E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently = delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. From nobody Mon Apr 27 21:58:50 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39311A003B for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:58:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.511 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rpYz3giBwlAe for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta1.chinamobile.com (cmccmta1.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 68D371A0027 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:58:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.5]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app03-12003 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee3553f137af67-55514; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 12:58:35 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee3553f137af67-55514 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmccPC (unknown[10.2.52.166]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr03-12003 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee3553f1378f26-3c05c; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 12:58:35 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee3553f1378f26-3c05c From: "Fan, Peng" To: "'Linhui Sun'" , , References: <003901d080e8$db63c060$922b4120$@chinamobile.com> In-Reply-To: <003901d080e8$db63c060$922b4120$@chinamobile.com> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 12:58:37 +0800 Message-ID: <002901d0816f$fd0b3ef0$f721bcd0$@chinamobile.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002A_01D081B3.0B324F80" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQH2tmz/2ZYtYLCzX2oeGHyzznY5CgIrIV77nQQM09A= Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: Cc: cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.cn Subject: Re: [sunset4] Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 04:58:49 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01D081B3.0B324F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is an example that explains PROBLEM2. In a home network, when a = host makes a DHCP request, the home router, which runs a DHCP server, = responds to the request. In the response, the default router is set to = the address of the home router (e.g., 192.168.1.1). The problem is that = this happens irrelevant of the state of WAN connectivity on the home = router. The home router always sets 192.168.1.1 as the default router in = the DHCP response even if it doesn't have access to the Internet. This = makes hosts on the LAN think that they can reach the Internet by sending = packets to 192.168.1.1, which can cause timeouts and connection = failures, even if IPv6 is available. =20 From: sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fan, Peng Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 8:51 PM To: 'Linhui Sun'; sunset4@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org Cc: cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.cn Subject: Re: [sunset4] Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07 =20 Hi Linhui, =20 Many thanks for the review and comments. I=E2=80=99ll give my = understanding of the second and third comments first. =20 Comment 2: I think RFC7341 solves the problem of transporting DHCPv4 message in an = IPv6 only network, but not disabling IPv4 address auto-configuration. I = think we can add RFC7341 to the second paragraph of A.1.2 as a = referential solution, and it should be used in combination with RFC2563. = In this way, IPv4 addr autoconf can be disabled over pure IPv6 access = network, but still running an IPv4 DHCP server is needed. =20 Comment 3: Problem 13 states that other provisioning protocols such as DHCP may = also develop similar on-demand IPv4 address provisioning mechanism as = proposed for PPP, thus we may encounter the same problem when using = those protocols. =20 Best regards, Peng =20 From: sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Linhui Sun Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 2:06 PM To: sunset4@ietf.org; draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org Cc: cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.cn; fanpeng@chinamobile.com Subject: [sunset4] Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07 =20 Dear authors, =20 I read this document and think it is really a good and useful work. The = draft describes various problems that we may encounter when we desire to = sunset the IPv4, also some corresponding solutions is available in the = appendix. =20 Meanwhile, I've got some minor questions and comments about this = document. Since I'm not pretty much familiar with the sunset4 area, = please correct me if I got something wrong. =20 Some detailed comments: 1. In section 3.1, PROBLEM 2. Are the "default routers" just the "relay = agents" in DHCP? If so, it would be better to use "relay agents" instead = of the "default routers". =20 2. In section 3.2, the last paragraph. The text says "using this option = requires running an IPv4 DHCP server". However, I think we could run a = DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 server (RFC7341) here to solve the problem. DHCPv4 = over DHCPv6 aims to solve the problem that DHCPv4 messages cannot be = transported in pure IPv6 networks. Thus there is no need to design = another equivalent protocol of RFC2563 using DHCPv6 as described in the = section A.1.2. =20 3. In section 6, PROBLEM 13. You mentioned DHCP here, do you mean DHCP = should also have a similar mechanism? =20 Best Regards Linhui ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01D081B3.0B324F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Here is an example that explains PROBLEM2. In a home network, when a = host makes a DHCP request, the home router, which runs a DHCP server, = responds to the request. In the response, the default router is set to = the address of the home router (e.g., 192.168.1.1). The problem is that = this happens irrelevant of the state of WAN connectivity on the home = router. The home router always sets 192.168.1.1 as the default router in = the DHCP response even if it doesn't have access to the Internet. This = makes hosts on the LAN think that they can reach the Internet by sending = packets to 192.168.1.1, which can cause timeouts and connection = failures, even if IPv6 is available.

 

From:= sunset4 = [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fan, = Peng
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 8:51 PM
To: = 'Linhui Sun'; sunset4@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org
Cc: = cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.cn
Subject: Re: [sunset4] Review of = draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07

 

Hi Linhui,

 

Many thanks for the review and comments. I=E2=80=99ll give my = understanding of the second and third comments = first.

 

Comment 2:

I think RFC7341 solves the problem of transporting DHCPv4 message in = an IPv6 only network, but not disabling IPv4 address auto-configuration. = I think we can add RFC7341 to the second paragraph of A.1.2 as a = referential solution, and it should be used in combination with RFC2563. = In this way, IPv4 addr autoconf can be disabled over pure IPv6 access = network, but still running an IPv4 DHCP server is = needed.

 

Comment 3:

Problem 13 states that other provisioning protocols such as DHCP may = also develop similar on-demand IPv4 address provisioning mechanism as = proposed for PPP, thus we may encounter the same problem when using = those protocols.

 

Best regards,

Peng

 

From:= sunset4 = [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Linhui = Sun
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 2:06 PM
To: = sunset4@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org
Cc: = cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.cn; fanpeng@chinamobile.com
Subject: = [sunset4] Review of = draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07

 

Dear = authors,

 

I read this document and think it = is really a good and useful work. The draft describes various problems = that we may encounter when we desire to sunset the IPv4, also some = corresponding solutions is available in the = appendix.

 

Meanwhile, I've got some minor = questions and comments about this document. Since I'm not pretty much = familiar with the sunset4 area, please correct me if I got something = wrong.

 

Some detailed = comments:

1. In section 3.1, PROBLEM 2. Are the "default = routers" just the "relay agents" in DHCP? If so, it would = be better to use "relay agents" instead of the "default = routers".

 

2. In section 3.2, the last = paragraph. The text says "using this option requires running an = IPv4 DHCP server". However, I think we could run a DHCPv4 over = DHCPv6 server (RFC7341) here to solve the problem. DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 = aims to solve the problem that DHCPv4 messages cannot be transported in = pure IPv6 networks. Thus there is no need to design another equivalent = protocol of RFC2563 using DHCPv6 as described in the section = A.1.2.

 

3. In section 6, PROBLEM 13. You = mentioned DHCP here, do you mean DHCP should also have a similar = mechanism?

 

Best = Regards

Linhui

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01D081B3.0B324F80-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 22:22:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA1521A0047 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 22:22:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id inNA07VRjjij for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 22:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22e.google.com (mail-wi0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2119C1A000F for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 22:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by widdi4 with SMTP id di4so125014343wid.0 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 22:22:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=K12mC5banuV2e08iWnpm3AkcWhpxYOeyIh9n2eDVMeQ=; b=zrC/ppwB6Opsb4XufjkXvZWeUzsyf+jKIJ1zsM41jcOEDi0qyyMLmQmLpwhRMLroJT pkfbertVsDl1BB7rMSXwp9vH4DmFHV900x7R1VEYsjb9wxe4Lh4FaIQPj0rLYOW3u7TL XSoohem32XbailpQH8qi1SWSQ++pxA2Bnjf/ojc5gczUO3C5lN1yi7gv7+PJw8XySTck GpGl0uY0ZHBu3qEKlniW22C3AthsQGocVHEkVX6nSUagjq0I+v65W3PTuv8ItCPsOOJy IDoGRQkL2lzj3eW2/KtZVmyTdt2TfzdZXewxS5SkKpXZbbL6xMUpI6h6B1gyj3EzOYrm UBjQ== X-Received: by 10.194.81.104 with SMTP id z8mr28268104wjx.45.1430198526839; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 22:22:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.23.15 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 22:21:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <002901d0816f$fd0b3ef0$f721bcd0$@chinamobile.com> References: <003901d080e8$db63c060$922b4120$@chinamobile.com> <002901d0816f$fd0b3ef0$f721bcd0$@chinamobile.com> From: Linhui Sun Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 13:21:46 +0800 Message-ID: To: "Fan, Peng" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bf0c58e2690750514c20be4 Archived-At: Cc: Yong Cui , draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org, sunset4@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sunset4] Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 05:22:11 -0000 --047d7bf0c58e2690750514c20be4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Peng Thanks for your explanations, please see some comments inline. 2015-04-28 12:58 GMT+08:00 Fan, Peng : > Here is an example that explains PROBLEM2. In a home network, when a host > makes a DHCP request, the home router, which runs a DHCP server, responds > to the request. In the response, the default router is set to the address > of the home router (e.g., 192.168.1.1). The problem is that this happens > irrelevant of the state of WAN connectivity on the home router. The home > router always sets 192.168.1.1 as the default router in the DHCP response > even if it doesn't have access to the Internet. This makes hosts on the L= AN > think that they can reach the Internet by sending packets to 192.168.1.1, > which can cause timeouts and connection failures, even if IPv6 is availab= le. > [Linhui]: Great, this example is useful for me to understand this question. > > > *From:* sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Fan, Pen= g > *Sent:* Monday, April 27, 2015 8:51 PM > *To:* 'Linhui Sun'; sunset4@ietf.org; > draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org > *Cc:* cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.cn > *Subject:* Re: [sunset4] Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07 > > > > Hi Linhui, > > > > Many thanks for the review and comments. I=E2=80=99ll give my understandi= ng of the > second and third comments first. > > > > Comment 2: > > I think RFC7341 solves the problem of transporting DHCPv4 message in an > IPv6 only network, but not disabling IPv4 address auto-configuration. I > think we can add RFC7341 to the second paragraph of A.1.2 as a referentia= l > solution, and it should be used in combination with RFC2563. In this way, > IPv4 addr autoconf can be disabled over pure IPv6 access network, but sti= ll > running an IPv4 DHCP server is needed. > [Linhui]: Agree, I think adding DHCP4o6 as an alternative solution in the appendix is the best way. Since I've ignored that DHCP4o6 will not implemented on every IPv4 or dual-stack host. Thus it would be clearer to treat it as an alternative. > > > Comment 3: > > Problem 13 states that other provisioning protocols such as DHCP may also > develop similar on-demand IPv4 address provisioning mechanism as proposed > for PPP, thus we may encounter the same problem when using those protocol= s. > [Linhui]: Well, I could get your idea now : ) > > > Best regards, > > Peng > > > > *From:* sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Linhui > Sun > *Sent:* Sunday, April 26, 2015 2:06 PM > *To:* sunset4@ietf.org; draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org > *Cc:* cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.cn; fanpeng@chinamobile.com > *Subject:* [sunset4] Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07 > > > > Dear authors, > > > > I read this document and think it is really a good and useful work. The > draft describes various problems that we may encounter when we desire to > sunset the IPv4, also some corresponding solutions is available in the > appendix. > > > > Meanwhile, I've got some minor questions and comments about this document= . > Since I'm not pretty much familiar with the sunset4 area, please correct = me > if I got something wrong. > > > > Some detailed comments: > > 1. In section 3.1, PROBLEM 2. Are the "default routers" just the "relay > agents" in DHCP? If so, it would be better to use "relay agents" instead = of > the "default routers". > > > > 2. In section 3.2, the last paragraph. The text says "using this option > requires running an IPv4 DHCP server". However, I think we could run a > DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 server (RFC7341) here to solve the problem. DHCPv4 ove= r > DHCPv6 aims to solve the problem that DHCPv4 messages cannot be transport= ed > in pure IPv6 networks. Thus there is no need to design another equivalent > protocol of RFC2563 using DHCPv6 as described in the section A.1.2. > > > > 3. In section 6, PROBLEM 13. You mentioned DHCP here, do you mean DHCP > should also have a similar mechanism? > > > > Best Regards > > Linhui > > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 > > Best Regards, Linhui --047d7bf0c58e2690750514c20be4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Peng

Thanks for your explanations, = please see some comments inline.

2015-04-28 12:58 GMT+08:00 Fan, Peng <fanpeng@c= hinamobile.com>:

Here is an example that explains PROBLEM2. In a home network, when a= host makes a DHCP request, the home router, which runs a DHCP server, resp= onds to the request. In the response, the default router is set to the addr= ess of the home router (e.g., 192.168.1.1). The problem is that this happen= s irrelevant of the state of WAN connectivity on the home router. The home = router always sets 192.168.1.1 as the default router in the DHCP response e= ven if it doesn't have access to the Internet. This makes hosts on the = LAN think that they can reach the Internet by sending packets to 192.168.1.= 1, which can cause timeouts and connection failures, even if IPv6 is availa= ble.

[Linhui]: Great, this example = is useful for me to understand this question.

=C2=A0

From: sunse= t4 [mailto:su= nset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Fan, Peng
Sent: M= onday, April 27, 2015 8:51 PM
To: 'Linhui Sun'; sunset4@ietf.org; draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org
Cc: cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.= cn
Subject: Re: [sunset4] Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapana= lysis-07

=C2=A0

Hi Linhui,

=C2=A0

Many thanks for the re= view and comments. I=E2=80=99ll give my understanding of the second and thi= rd comments first.

=C2=A0

Comment 2:

I think RFC7341 solves the problem of transport= ing DHCPv4 message in an IPv6 only network, but not disabling IPv4 address = auto-configuration. I think we can add RFC7341 to the second paragraph of A= .1.2 as a referential solution, and it should be used in combination with R= FC2563. In this way, IPv4 addr autoconf can be disabled over pure IPv6 acce= ss network, but still running an IPv4 DHCP server is needed.

[Linhui]: Agree, I think adding DHCP4= o6 as an alternative solution in the appendix is the best way. Since I'= ve ignored that DHCP4o6 will not implemented on every IPv4 or dual-stack ho= st. Thus it would be clearer to treat it as an alternative.=C2=A0
<= div class=3D"h5">

=

=C2= =A0

Commen= t 3:

Problem 13 states that other provisioning protocols such as DHCP may also= develop similar on-demand IPv4 address provisioning mechanism as proposed = for PPP, thus we may encounter the same problem when using those protocols.=

[Linhui]: Well, I coul= d get your idea now : )=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Best regards,

Peng

=C2=A0

From: sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Linhui Sun
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 2= :06 PM
To: = sunset4@ietf.org; draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org=
Cc: cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.cn; fanpeng@chinamobile.com
Subject: [sunset4= ] Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07

=C2=A0

=

Dear authors,

=C2=A0

I read t= his document and think it is really a good and useful work. The draft descr= ibes various problems that we may encounter when we desire to sunset the IP= v4, also some corresponding solutions is available in the appendix.<= u>

= =C2=A0

Meanwhile, I've got some minor questions and comments about thi= s document. Since I'm not pretty much familiar with the sunset4 area, p= lease correct me if I got something wrong.

=C2=A0<= /p>

Some detailed com= ments:

1. In section 3.1, PROBLEM 2. Are the "default routers"= ; just the "relay agents" in DHCP? If so, it would be better to u= se "relay agents" instead of the "default routers".<= /u>

=C2=A0

2. In section 3.2, the last paragraph. The text says "usin= g this option requires running an IPv4 DHCP server". However, I think = we could run a DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 server (RFC7341) here to solve the proble= m. DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 aims to solve the problem that DHCPv4 messages cannot= be transported in pure IPv6 networks. Thus there is no need to design anot= her equivalent protocol of RFC2563 using DHCPv6 as described in the section= A.1.2.

=C2=A0

3. In section 6, PROBLEM 13. You mentioned DHCP here= , do you mean DHCP should also have a similar mechanism?

=C2=A0<= u>

Bes= t Regards

Linhui

=

_______________________________________________
sunset4 mailing list
sunset4@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4

Best Regards,
Linhui=
--047d7bf0c58e2690750514c20be4-- From nobody Mon Apr 27 22:34:33 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 536681A003B for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 22:34:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.961 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.961 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fx2yeAQEj-tM for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 22:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69D231A00B8 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2015 22:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 139F5A2; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 07:34:27 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1430199267; bh=kiwg76lcX31qCmRbnXSI3k+rCI8N65+hRflErC4mP3g=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=tGAbbPiXTXsUt50LnREdXdFd85JnLf5XHf8zXLWx1Qwy2S26ucjetG0bEWb6WkxSI 6g73/DmhYMP8WSRLoN0ElMTtUm0sicuWPg6UBv4DyJz4jP7pLqflnYSVzO+1jFbjnP xGZ2ceFGe/fdolTU7I53bhC+RfeLgjFkNgO9/1A8= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6299F; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 07:34:27 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 07:34:27 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: "Fan, Peng" In-Reply-To: <002b01d07736$de30bde0$9a9239a0$@chinamobile.com> Message-ID: References: <002b01d07736$de30bde0$9a9239a0$@chinamobile.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Cc: "'Mukom Akong T.'" , sunset4@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sunset4] Fwd: Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-06 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 05:34:32 -0000 Hi, these changes look good to me! Thanks. On Wed, 15 Apr 2015, Fan, Peng wrote: > Thank you Mikael for the review. Section 5 deals with operating system > related issues. I rewrite Problem 8 a little, please see if it reflects your > concerns. Regarding the recommendation of OS developer implementing > functions to reveal IPv4 dependency, it seems to be a solution idea that can > be seen as a candidate of the words "how to discover existing dependencies" > in appendix A.3 (also rewrite as follows). I guess this requires the OS to > have an exhaustive list of legacy IPv4-only APIs and a runtime knowledge of > what APIs are currently called by what applications, and I would also like > to hear the opinion of the WG if this is an implementable and rational way > that OS is expected to realize. > > //PROBLEM 8 > OLD: > Completely disabling IPv4 at runtime often reveals implementation bugs. > Hard-coded dependencies on IPv4 abound, such as on the 127.0.0.1 address > assigned to the loopback interface. It is therefore often operationally > impossible to completely disable IPv4 on individual nodes. > > NEW: > Completely disabling IPv4 at runtime often reveals implementation bugs. > Hard-coded dependencies on IPv4 abound, such as on the 127.0.0.1 address > assigned to the loopback interface, and legacy IPv4-only APIs are widely > used by applications. It is hard for the administrators and users to know > what applications running on the operating system have implementation > problems of IPv4 dependency. It is therefore often operationally impossible > to completely disable IPv4 on individual nodes. > > //Appendix A.3 > OLD: > It would be useful for the IETF to provide guidelines to programmers on how > to avoid creating dependencies on IPv4, how to discover existing > dependencies, and how to eliminate them. Having programs and operating > systems that behave well in an IPv6-only environment is prerequisite for > IPv4 sunsetting. > > NEW: > It would be useful for the IETF to provide guidelines to programmers on how > to avoid creating dependencies on IPv4, how to discover existing > dependencies, and how to eliminate them. It would be useful if operating > systems provide functions for users to see what applications uses legacy > IPv4-only APIs, so they can know it better whether they can turn off IPv4 > completely. Having programs and operating systems that behave well in an > IPv6-only environment is prerequisite for IPv4 sunsetting. > > Best regards, > Peng > > -----Original Message----- > From: sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mikael > Abrahamsson > Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 3:47 PM > To: Mukom Akong T. > Cc: sunset4@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [sunset4] Fwd: Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-06 > > On Wed, 8 Apr 2015, Mukom Akong T. wrote: > >> I committed to reviewing this draft. I only have one suggestion for >> the authors to improve legibility: itemising the specific set of >> criteria for review in section 2. >> >> I also attach the reviewed document. >> >> P/S: This is my first review so I might not be aware of a proper >> procedure to submit it, please point me to the right procedure if this > isn't it. > > I also promised to review this document. > > I found nothing objectionable in the document, it looks useful and I support > it. > > I had a thought though, I remember a linux kernel message I saw a long time > ago regarding an soon-to-be-deprecated API, and that it gave syslog warnings > that a certain process used it. Would it make sense to recommend operating > system manufacturers to implement functions so admins/users could see what > applications uses legacy IPv4-only-APIs? Or perhaps just say that a gap is > that it's hard for the user to know what applications use ipv4-only API and > thus they could be helped by understanding this better to know if they can > turn off IPv4 completely or if they need to keep it running but might > firewall it or something? > > -- > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se > > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 > > > -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Tue Apr 28 01:02:35 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1F841A1A91 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 01:02:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.388 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.388 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RELAY_IS_221=2.222, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P6JtINcyF17r for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 01:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta2.chinamobile.com (cmccmta2.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 911111A1A6E for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 01:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spf.mail.chinamobile.com (unknown[172.16.121.5]) by rmmx-syy-dmz-app07-12007 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee7553f3df3155-59695; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 15:59:48 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee7553f3df3155-59695 X-RM-SPAM-FLAG: 00000000 Received: from cmccPC (unknown[10.2.52.166]) by rmsmtp-syy-appsvr03-12003 (RichMail) with SMTP id 2ee3553f3df3684-419a5; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 15:59:48 +0800 (CST) X-RM-TRANSID: 2ee3553f3df3684-419a5 From: "Fan, Peng" To: "'Linhui Sun'" References: <003901d080e8$db63c060$922b4120$@chinamobile.com> <002901d0816f$fd0b3ef0$f721bcd0$@chinamobile.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 15:59:50 +0800 Message-ID: <006501d08189$4d977aa0$e8c66fe0$@chinamobile.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0066_01D081CC.5BBC8F60" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQH2tmz/2ZYtYLCzX2oeGHyzznY5CgIrIV77Ae840uICNs+FEpzjFUbw Content-Language: zh-cn Archived-At: Cc: 'Yong Cui' , sunset4@ietf.org, draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [sunset4] Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07 X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 08:02:35 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01D081CC.5BBC8F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A small complementary comment, inline [FP] please. Comment 2: I think RFC7341 solves the problem of transporting DHCPv4 message in an = IPv6 only network, but not disabling IPv4 address auto-configuration. I = think we can add RFC7341 to the second paragraph of A.1.2 as a = referential solution, and it should be used in combination with RFC2563. = In this way, IPv4 addr autoconf can be disabled over pure IPv6 access = network, but still running an IPv4 DHCP server is needed. [Linhui]: Agree, I think adding DHCP4o6 as an alternative solution in = the appendix is the best way. Since I've ignored that DHCP4o6 will not = implemented on every IPv4 or dual-stack host. Thus it would be clearer = to treat it as an alternative.=20 [FP] Giving it a second thought, since it requires the implementation of = DHCP4o6 client on the hosts, application of DHCP4o6+RFC2563 to disable = IPv4 auto-configuration may be rather restricted. DHCP4o6 is not = designed to be used universally, as shown in the text of RFC7341: This is intended as a special-purpose mechanism that will be implemented on nodes that must obtain IPv4 configuration information using DHCPv4 in specific environments where native DHCPv4 is not available. Such nodes are expected to follow the advice in Section 9; nodes that do not require this functionality are expected not to implement it, or not to enable it by default. =20 Best regards, Peng =20 Comment 3: Problem 13 states that other provisioning protocols such as DHCP may = also develop similar on-demand IPv4 address provisioning mechanism as = proposed for PPP, thus we may encounter the same problem when using = those protocols. [Linhui]: Well, I could get your idea now : )=20 =20 Best regards, Peng =20 From: sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Linhui Sun Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 2:06 PM To: sunset4@ietf.org; draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org Cc: cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.cn; fanpeng@chinamobile.com Subject: [sunset4] Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07 =20 Dear authors, =20 I read this document and think it is really a good and useful work. The = draft describes various problems that we may encounter when we desire to = sunset the IPv4, also some corresponding solutions is available in the = appendix. =20 Meanwhile, I've got some minor questions and comments about this = document. Since I'm not pretty much familiar with the sunset4 area, = please correct me if I got something wrong. =20 Some detailed comments: 1. In section 3.1, PROBLEM 2. Are the "default routers" just the "relay = agents" in DHCP? If so, it would be better to use "relay agents" instead = of the "default routers". =20 2. In section 3.2, the last paragraph. The text says "using this option = requires running an IPv4 DHCP server". However, I think we could run a = DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 server (RFC7341) here to solve the problem. DHCPv4 = over DHCPv6 aims to solve the problem that DHCPv4 messages cannot be = transported in pure IPv6 networks. Thus there is no need to design = another equivalent protocol of RFC2563 using DHCPv6 as described in the = section A.1.2. =20 3. In section 6, PROBLEM 13. You mentioned DHCP here, do you mean DHCP = should also have a similar mechanism? =20 Best Regards Linhui _______________________________________________ sunset4 mailing list sunset4@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 Best Regards, Linhui ------=_NextPart_000_0066_01D081CC.5BBC8F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A small complementary comment, inline [FP] = please.

Comment 2:

I think RFC7341 solves the problem of transporting DHCPv4 message in = an IPv6 only network, but not disabling IPv4 address auto-configuration. = I think we can add RFC7341 to the second paragraph of A.1.2 as a = referential solution, and it should be used in combination with RFC2563. = In this way, IPv4 addr autoconf can be disabled over pure IPv6 access = network, but still running an IPv4 DHCP server is needed.

<= div>

[Linhui]: Agree, I think = adding DHCP4o6 as an alternative solution in the appendix is the best = way. Since I've ignored that DHCP4o6 will not implemented on every IPv4 = or dual-stack host. Thus it would be clearer to treat it as an = alternative. 

[FP] Giving it a second thought, since it requires the implementation = of DHCP4o6 client on the hosts, application of DHCP4o6+RFC2563 to = disable IPv4 auto-configuration may be rather restricted. DHCP4o6 is not = designed to be used universally, as shown in the text of = RFC7341:

This is intended as a special-purpose mechanism that

   will be implemented on nodes that must obtain IPv4 = configuration

   information using DHCPv4 in specific environments where = native DHCPv4

   is not available.  Such nodes are expected to = follow the advice in

   Section 9; nodes that do not require this functionality = are expected

   not to implement it, or not to enable it by = default.

 

Best regards,

Peng

 

Comment 3:

Problem 13 states that other provisioning protocols such as DHCP may = also develop similar on-demand IPv4 address provisioning mechanism as = proposed for PPP, thus we may encounter the same problem when using = those protocols.

<= div>

[Linhui]: Well, I could get = your idea now : ) 

 

Best regards,

Peng

 

From:= sunset4 = [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Linhui Sun
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 2:06 = PM
To: sunset4@ietf.org; draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis@tools.ietf.org
Cc: cuiyong@tsinghua.edu.cn; fanpeng@chinamobile.com
Subject: = [sunset4] Review of draft-ietf-sunset4-gapanalysis-07

 

Dear authors,

 

I read this document and think it is really a good and = useful work. The draft describes various problems that we may encounter = when we desire to sunset the IPv4, also some corresponding solutions is = available in the appendix.

 

Meanwhile, I've got some minor questions and comments about = this document. Since I'm not pretty much familiar with the sunset4 area, = please correct me if I got something = wrong.

 

Some detailed comments:

1. In section 3.1, PROBLEM 2. Are the "default = routers" just the "relay agents" in DHCP? If so, it would = be better to use "relay agents" instead of the "default = routers".

 

2. In section 3.2, the last paragraph. The text says = "using this option requires running an IPv4 DHCP server". = However, I think we could run a DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 server (RFC7341) here = to solve the problem. DHCPv4 over DHCPv6 aims to solve the problem that = DHCPv4 messages cannot be transported in pure IPv6 networks. Thus there = is no need to design another equivalent protocol of RFC2563 using DHCPv6 = as described in the section A.1.2.

 

3. In section 6, PROBLEM 13. You mentioned DHCP here, do = you mean DHCP should also have a similar = mechanism?

 

Best Regards

Linhui


_______________________________________________
sunse= t4 mailing list
sunset4@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4<= /o:p>

Best Regards,

Linhui

------=_NextPart_000_0066_01D081CC.5BBC8F60-- From nobody Tue Apr 28 02:13:36 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A0791A1BB1 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 02:13:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v44NtXu0HkA9 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 02:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD0F41A1BB0 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 02:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BRX41220; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 09:13:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEMA414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.72.73) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 10:13:29 +0100 Received: from SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.31]) by SZXEMA414-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.72.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 28 Apr 2015 17:12:53 +0800 From: "Huangjing (A)" To: Chris Donley Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt Thread-Index: AQHP2/3Rwmp6d3eiP0aaO1Hkh+DnzJwXwA+AgSK5zwCAEwi4MP//ujGAgBYw86A= Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 09:12:52 +0000 Message-ID: <774B240D54DAB844B37EE80C2DD8E8BC6492BD8F@SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <20140929155531.9911.46197.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <54298319.7010605@gmail.com> <774B240D54DAB844B37EE80C2DD8E8BC6492909D@SZXEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.66.116.136] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Cc: "sunset4@ietf.org" , Tom Taylor Subject: Re: [sunset4] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 09:13:35 -0000 Done, reference updated to RFC7422 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-sunset4-nat64-port-allocation-00 James -----Original Message----- From: Chris Donley [mailto:C.Donley@cablelabs.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 10:15 PM To: Huangjing (A) Cc: Tom Taylor; sunset4@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sunset4] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-chen-sunset4= -cgn-port-allocation-05.txt Confirmed - you have removed our IPR. One note is that our deterministic C= GN document has been published as RFC 7422. Would you please update the re= ference in your next release? Thanks, Chris On 4/14/15 4:26 AM, "Huangjing (A)" wrote: >Hi, Chris, > >Could you please help to confirm the IPR issue? Thanks a lot! > >I am one of the co-authors. > >Best Regards >James > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of George,=20 >> Wes >> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2015 11:45 PM >> To: Tom Taylor; sunset4@ietf.org >> Cc: Donley, Chris (Cable Labs) >> Subject: Re: [sunset4] Fwd: New Version Notification for=20 >> draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt >>=20 >> Authors - >>=20 >> Based on the discussion during the meeting in Dallas, please publish=20 >>a new version of this with a slightly different name. We will not=20 >>link the two in "replaces", and this will clear the existing IPR=20 >>encumbrance. >>=20 >> Separately, will the cable Labs folks confirm that the new draft does=20 >>not have any of your IPR in it? >>=20 >> Once this is completed, we will call for WG adoption. Sorry for the=20 >>Texas two-step, but this was the recommended way to address the IPR=20 >>concerns. >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> Wes >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 9/29/14, 12:04 PM, "Tom Taylor" wrote: >>=20 >> >Draft has been posted. Detailed changes as described in the response=20 >> >to Lee Howard's review, plus deletion of the section on=20 >> >deterministic CGN as agreed in Toronto. >> > >> >Tom Taylor >> > >> >-------- Original Message -------- >> >Subject: New Version Notification for=20 >> >draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt >> >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:55:31 -0700 >> >From: internet-drafts@ietf.org >> >To: Tom Taylor , Weibo Li=20 >> >, James Huang , Gang >> Chen >> >, Weibo Li , Tina Tsou=20 >> >, Jing Huang ,=20 >> >Tina Tsou , Tom Taylor=20 >> >, Gang Chen >> > >> > >> >A new version of I-D, draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05.txt >> >has been successfully submitted by Tom Taylor and posted to the IETF=20 >> >repository. >> > >> >Name: draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation >> >Revision: 05 >> >Title: Analysis of NAT64 Port Allocation Methods for Shared >>IPv4 >> >Addresses >> >Document date: 2014-09-29 >> >Group: Individual Submission >> >Pages: 19 >> >URL: >> >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allo >> >cat >> >ion >> >-05.txt >> >Status: >> >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocat >> >ion >> >/ >> >Htmlized: >> >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocation-05 >> >Diff: >> >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-chen-sunset4-cgn-port-allocat >> >ion >> >-05 >> > >> >Abstract: >> > This document enumerates methods of port assignment in Carrier >>Grade >> > NATs (CGNs), focused particularly on NAT64 environments. A >> > theoretical framework of different NAT port allocation methods is >> > described. The memo is intended to clarify and focus the port >> > allocation discussion and propose an integrated view of the >> > considerations for selection of the port allocation mechanism in a >> > given deployment. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of=20 >> >submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at=20 >> >tools.ietf.org. >> > >> >The IETF Secretariat >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >sunset4 mailing list >> >sunset4@ietf.org >> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 >>=20 >>=20 >> This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable =20 >>proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject=20 >>to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended=20 >>solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is=20 >>addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you=20 >>are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or=20 >>action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this=20 >>E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. >>If you >> have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender=20 >>immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this=20 >>E-mail and any printout. >> _______________________________________________ >> sunset4 mailing list >> sunset4@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4