From nobody Mon Nov 2 20:31:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 791CF1B2D57; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 20:31:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.225 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.225 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9HUY8Ih7p6vY; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 20:31:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from pacdcmhout01.cable.comcast.com (PACDCMHOUT01.cable.comcast.com [68.87.31.167]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C239A1B2D12; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 20:31:35 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"dnsop@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-jjmb-sunset4-dns-forwarding-ipv4aas-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHRFUd7foUpK2I9C0GX0e+YjfXiOZ6KoOwA Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 04:30:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151102074846.14431.30976.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.7.151005 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [96.115.73.252] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <884CC657508F1C42A488E606A9680CA9@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprMKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXiEq4ko7vMwiLM4PBJaYuZPf8YLe6+ucxi 8X7dGTaLV6fWMFqs3LOf3aL16E1WBzaPs0cWMHpM+b2R1ePwhfssHkuW/GTymHn8C0sAaxSX TUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxoz3tQULVCoer+5kbWBcodzFyMkhIWAiMXflLjYIW0ziwr31QDYXh5DA LiaJBesesUM4exgl/v9dCpNhlNiy5CRU5gSjxNzJU8D62QRsJF5/+MkIYosI+EicuPaKBaSI 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pacdcmhout01.cable.comcast.com (SMTP Gateway) with SMTP id 11.E5.04607.79C48365; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 00:56:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from PACDCEX42.cable.comcast.com (24.40.2.141) by pacdcexhub04.cable.comcast.com (24.40.56.121) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.181.6; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 00:55:47 -0500 Received: from PACDCEX41.cable.comcast.com (24.40.2.140) by PACDCEX42.cable.comcast.com (24.40.2.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1044.25; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 00:55:46 -0500 Received: from PACDCEX41.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::3aea:a7ff:fe36:8b0c]) by PACDCEX41.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::3aea:a7ff:fe36:8b0c%19]) with mapi id 15.00.1044.021; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 00:55:46 -0500 From: "Brzozowski, John" To: Alain Durand , "sunset4@ietf.org" , "dnsop@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [DNSOP] New Version Notification for draft-jjmb-sunset4-dns-forwarding-ipv4aas-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHRFfxHfoUpK2I9C0GX0e+YjfXiOQ== Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 05:55:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.7.151005 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [96.115.73.252] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprGKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXiEq4kozvdxyLM4P5SfYuXTbvYLWb2/GO0 uPvmMovF+3Vn2CxenVrDaLFyz352i9ajN1kd2D3OHlnA6DHl90ZWj8MX7rN4LFnyk8lj5vEv LAGsUVw2Kak5mWWpRfp2CVwZkzdcZy/osKjYtWwbcwPjBbMuRk4OCQETiZvL+tghbDGJC/fW s3UxcnEICexiktjws4EdwtnDKLH2xGKwKqAMo0TTIQmIxAlGiYeT74El2ARsJF5/+MnYxcjB ISJQKvHwSTVIDbPAbUaJhrk/2UBqhAVSJCb9W8QMYosIpEqcnnyFBcLWk2j7cI8JpJdFQEWi bYMISJhXwF7i/+qPLCBhIQEjiWnr5EDCnALGEpufHwbbygh09PdTa5hAbGYBcYlbT+YzQTwj ILFkz3lmCFtU4uXjf6wgtijQpvZT/9kg4gYSW5fuY4GwFSX+zV4PtopZQFNi/S59iJEOEsv2 74YarygxpfshO8RlghInZz6BukxPYt4DaYgp4hKHj+xgncAoOwvJQbMQhs5CMnQWkqGzkAxd 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draft-jjmb-sunset4-dns-forwarding-ipv4aas-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHRFUd7foUpK2I9C0GX0e+YjfXiOZ6KoOwA//8ldnWAAAJ8mYAA8VaA Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 06:01:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151102074846.14431.30976.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <20151103052757.DAF2D3BBB299@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151103053711.A9AF43BBB46A@rock.dv.isc.org> In-Reply-To: <20151103053711.A9AF43BBB46A@rock.dv.isc.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.7.151005 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [96.115.73.253] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprNKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXiEq4ko6vuZxFmsGeDuMXMnn+MFnffXGax eL/uDJvFq1NrGC2uvLjPYrFyz352i9ajN1kd2D3OHlnA6DHl90ZWj8MX7rN4LFnyk8lj5vEv LB4PHr9jDmCL4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MrYd3IdY0GLZMXk7ZOYGhg3SHQxcnBICJhIrN6d08XI 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draft-jjmb-sunset4-dns-forwarding-ipv4aas-00.txt X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2015 06:03:22 -0000 TWFyayB0aGlzIGlzIGluIHBhcnQsIHdoYXQgd2UgYXJlIHBsYW5uaW5nIG9uIGRvaW5nLiAgSG93 ZXZlciwgd2hhdCB3ZQ0Kd2FudCB0byBtYWtlIHN1cmUgd2UgaGFkIHdhcyBzdGFuZGFyZHMgcmVm ZXJlbmNlKHMpIHRoYXQgd2UgY291bGQgcG9pbnQNCmltcGxlbWVudGVycyB0by4gIEFsc28gbm90 ZSB0aGlzIGNhc2Ugb25seSBwZXJ0YWlucyB0byBETlMgcXVlcmllcyB0aGF0DQphcmUgZGlyZWN0 ZWQgYXQgdGhlIExBTiBvZiB0aGUgQ1BFIHJvdXRlciBpLmUuIDEwLjAuMC4xLiAgVGhlcmUgYXJl IG90aGVyDQp1c2UgY2FzZXMgdGhhdCB3ZSB0aG91Z2h0IHdvdWxkIGJlIHZhbHVhYmxlIHRvIGVu dW1lcmF0ZSwgaW5jbHVkaW5nIGNhc2VzDQp3aGVyZSBob3N0cyBhcmUgY29uZmlndXJlZCB3aXRo IGEgcHVibGljbHkgcm91dGFibGUgSVB2NCBETlMgc2VydmVyDQphZGRyZXNzIG9yIEROUyBzZXJ2 ZXJzIHRoYXQgYXJlIGluIHRoZSBjdXN0b21lcuKAmXMgcHJlbWlzZXMgdGhhdCBhcmUgZHVhbA0K 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T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SKRfpiLZLMJY; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 22:03:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from pacdcmhout01.cable.comcast.com (PACDCMHOUT01.cable.comcast.com [68.87.31.167]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A38111B29F1; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 22:03:44 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: 44571fa7-f79626d0000011ff-a6-56384e3e2a5b Received: from pacdcexhub05.cable.comcast.com (cas-umc02.ndceast.pa.bo.comcast.net [68.87.34.28]) (using TLS with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by pacdcmhout01.cable.comcast.com (SMTP Gateway) with SMTP id 2E.56.04607.F3E48365; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 01:03:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from PACDCEX46.cable.comcast.com (24.40.2.145) by pacdcexhub05.cable.comcast.com (24.40.56.122) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.181.6; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 01:03:40 -0500 Received: from PACDCEX41.cable.comcast.com (24.40.2.140) by PACDCEX46.cable.comcast.com (24.40.2.145) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1044.25; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 01:03:39 -0500 Received: from PACDCEX41.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::3aea:a7ff:fe36:8b0c]) by PACDCEX41.cable.comcast.com ([fe80::3aea:a7ff:fe36:8b0c%19]) with mapi id 15.00.1044.021; Tue, 3 Nov 2015 01:03:39 -0500 From: "Brzozowski, John" To: Mark Andrews Thread-Topic: [DNSOP] New Version Notification for draft-jjmb-sunset4-dns-forwarding-ipv4aas-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHRFUd7foUpK2I9C0GX0e+YjfXiOZ6KoOwA//8ldnWAAAJ8mYAA8VaAgAAAq4A= Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 06:03:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20151102074846.14431.30976.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <20151103052757.DAF2D3BBB299@rock.dv.isc.org> <20151103053711.A9AF43BBB46A@rock.dv.isc.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.5.7.151005 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [96.115.73.253] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <7E210D97BC586B4BA201662782D9114C@cable.comcast.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Forward X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprDKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXiEq4ko2vvZxFmMH2FhMXMnn+MFnffXGax eL/uDJvFq1NrGC2uvLjPYrFyz352i9ajN1kd2D3OHlnA6DHl90ZWj8MX7rN4LFnyk8lj5vEv LB4PHr9jDmCL4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MroOHCMseCCQsXcneINjE/kuxg5OSQETCROf/vFBmGL SVy4tx7MFhLYxSRxqj2qi5ELyN7DKPFj1xpGCGcXo8TnUzdYIapOMEpsnpMLYrMJ2Ei8/vCT EcQWEVCQaHv7ignEZhbYzCTxaYs0iC0skCIx6d8iZoiaVInTk6+wQNh+Es0np4HNZBFQkfh7 sQPM5hWwl3i6ZCEbxOLDTBJfrs0DW8Ap4CDxfkY/mM0IdPb3U2uglolL3HoynwniHQGJJXvO M0PYohIvH/8DGyoqoCfRfuo/1MsGEluX7mOBsBUl9n1YAVTPATRHU2L9Ln2IkQ4STVufsEDY ihJTuh+yQ9wmKHFyJkicA+g2PYl5D6QhpohLHD6yg3UCo+wsJAfNQhg6C8nQWUiGzkIydAEj 6ypGuYLE5JTk3Iz80hIDQ73kxKScVL3k/NzkxOISEL2JEZxm5JfvYLz3wukQowAHoxIPb4mZ 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2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2C461B3B49 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:19:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2puNHDE21tOo for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:19:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-x236.google.com (mail-lb0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D88B31B3B45 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:19:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by lbbkw15 with SMTP id kw15so24928493lbb.0 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:19:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=9Jm0YJcZDOVcVuh6Q7pLIrqHCFE6r3YCTceEHm16RI4=; b=J8PQYoCRj0sU5p3YSjZdGsCDVFBft+nkvrOme8xT7VcxBZAhuMQaPXbNA/zxJ+qJ59 nqU/NWL330IrTRNYXcrEXqIIgrj6Pn8mgENOXHUjIp4Vl6WKracUB8tpPcuhh1fljoiU csurG6dEuMjRFShbEf/1l1QrDAv3H0CXhLzcjrsS7Kn7gxGvpPnxt0NYMTdwsplH/O5y YLaE3apHa6P7zOOGruhBdgIZlAeC0SzIE2kDxJTt8CNVrMYx1+j6iWjKtL/Alwsg7OKo EKTexYg1aN4OvyAyCLqZdMXol/13KZ5Y+AmkXeVFo6TI8AsF5z2vUuhdLsc5kSsn1HyB wa5w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.172.138 with SMTP id bc10mr5455665lbc.74.1447280357002; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:19:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.220.8 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 14:19:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20151007072041.68bcd4dd@echo.ms.redpill-linpro.com> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 16:19:16 -0600 Message-ID: From: Alberto Leiva To: GangChen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: Tore Anderson , sunset4@ietf.org, draft-ietf-sunset4-nat64-port-allocation@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [sunset4] draft-ietf-sunset4-nat64-port-allocation X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 22:19:20 -0000 > Am I missing something? No, I was. Thank you for your time. On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 11:19 AM, GangChen wrote: > 2015-10-08 6:46 GMT+08:00, Alberto Leiva : >> You did figure hole punching out. It's my opinion on it that confuses yo= u. >> >>> Not sure I understand correctly, >>> it seems you prefer using port randomization to facilitate the hole >>> punching process, >> >> It's the other way around. I do prefer port randomization, but it makes >> hole punching difficult. >> >> As an implementor, I prefer port randomization over hole punching. But >> that's just my opinion. >> >>> in which simultaneous open of TCP connections are >>> involved. >> >> People achieves hole punching by doing a Simultaneous Open. So, for the >> purposes of this discussion, think hole punching =3D Simultaneous Open. >> >>> I may not able to figure out the hole punching process based >>> on port randomization, since port randomization may not can help users >>> to discover their exact NAT mapping, also it can't replace outbound >>> signalling, e.g., SIP. >> >> Exactly. Since the port mapping is random, people can't predict it, so t= hey >> can't punch the hole. > > People could use behave technologies (stun/turn/ice) to determine the > port mapping even there is random port mapping. I can't see the > difficulty. Am I missing something? > >> Therefore, a random NAT64 has little reason to have to deal with the >> trouble of supporting Simultaneous Open. >> >> "Dealing with the trouble of supporting Simultaneous Open" is having to >> store a fake session and a packet for 6 seconds, and then answer an ICMP >> error to the packet. >> >>> I guess it's similar meaning as for "STATELESS NAT64". There is the >>> term. Best reference serving the concept is RFC6145. that's it. >> >> Fine. But really; what is the problem with using official terms in a for= mal >> document? >> >> On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 9:33 AM, GangChen wrote: >> >>> 2015-10-07 13:20 GMT+08:00, Tore Anderson : >>> > * GangChen >>> > >>> >> 2015-09-25 4:15 GMT+08:00, Alberto Leiva : >>> >> > "Stateless NAT64" doesn't exist. Or, at the very least, it isn't >>> >> > defined in any standards that I have seen. >>> >> >>> >> RFC7599 may help. >>> >> There are several statements, like "It builds on existing stateless >>> >> NAT64 techniques specified in [RFC6145],...", "A stateless NAT64 >>> >> function [RFC6145] is extended to allow stateless mapping of IPv4 ..= ." >>> > >>> > Except for the fact that the RFC7599 is making a false claim here: >>> > RFC6145 simply *doesn't* specify =C2=ABstateless NAT64=C2=BB. As it h= appens, the >>> > only occurrence of the string =C2=ABNAT64=C2=BB in RFC6145 is in a re= ference to >>> > RFC6146. >>> > >>> > Any draft could potentially include a sentence such as =C2=ABblah bla= h, the >>> > Awesome Buttered Bacon Protocol (ABBP) [RFC2460], blah blah=C2=BB. Bu= t that >>> > doesn't mean that =C2=ABABBP=C2=BB from that point on becomes a offic= ially >>> > correct >>> > name for the protocol specified in RFC2460, now does it? >>> >>> Completely agree. >>> >>> In another words, RFC2460 may not represent the entire ABBP, but that >>> is first thing people flash in their mind, isn't it? >>> >>> I guess it's similar meaning as for "STATELESS NAT64". There is the >>> term. Best reference serving the concept is RFC6145. that's it. >>> >>> BTW, the statement in this draft is "Stateless NAT is performed in >>> compliance with [RFC6145]." So, that is not saying RFC6145 is complete >>> stateless nat, but the algorithm for stateless processing is referring >>> the RFC6145. >>> >>> BRs >>> Gang >>> >>> >>> >>> > Tore >>> > >>> >>