From nobody Mon Mar 14 10:28:37 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E527812D686 for ; Mon, 14 Mar 2016 10:28:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.873 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.873 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iXGb4zzrxyzt for ; Mon, 14 Mar 2016 10:28:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdpipgw01.twcable.com (unknown [165.237.59.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D207112DBE8 for ; Mon, 14 Mar 2016 10:28:33 -0700 (PDT) X-SENDER-IP: 10.64.163.149 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.24,336,1454994000"; d="scan'208,217";a="1234665761" Received: from unknown (HELO exchpapp08.corp.twcable.com) ([10.64.163.149]) by cdpipgw01.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 14 Mar 2016 13:23:12 -0400 Received: from EXCHPAPP03.corp.twcable.com (10.64.163.144) by exchpapp08.corp.twcable.com (10.64.163.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1156.6; Mon, 14 Mar 2016 13:28:31 -0400 Received: from EXCHPAPP03.corp.twcable.com ([10.64.163.144]) by exchpapp03.corp.twcable.com ([10.64.163.144]) with mapi id 15.00.1156.000; Mon, 14 Mar 2016 13:28:31 -0400 From: "George, Wes" To: "sunset4@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Agenda items? Thread-Index: AQHRfhbteHaLjCUMuE2k3i7GIF+h9w== Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 17:28:30 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.1.160122 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.64.163.240] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-11.0.0.1191-8.000.1202-22192.004 x-tm-as-result: No--35.211100-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D30C6CFE81D22wesleygeorgetwcablecom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [sunset4] Agenda items? 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Mon, 14 Mar 2016 16:22:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YbGGCpcJql4h for ; Mon, 14 Mar 2016 16:22:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgwkm03.jp.fujitsu.com (mgwkm03.jp.fujitsu.com [202.219.69.170]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE43212D7E2 for ; Mon, 14 Mar 2016 16:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kw-mxoi1.gw.nic.fujitsu.com (unknown [192.168.231.131]) by mgwkm03.jp.fujitsu.com with smtp id 7bb6_017a_b5375c40_1557_46f3_9f81_5e03741e6721; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:22:42 +0900 Received: from m3050.s.css.fujitsu.com (msm.b.css.fujitsu.com [10.134.21.208]) by kw-mxoi1.gw.nic.fujitsu.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51AEDAC0315 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:22:42 +0900 (JST) X-SecurityPolicyCheck: OK by SHieldMailChecker v2.3.2 X-SHieldMailCheckerPolicyVersion: FJ-ISEC-20150624-1 X-SHieldMailCheckerMailID: efe343e5d0784c78baaf0bad728547ec To: "George, Wes" , "sunset4@ietf.org" References: From: Naoki Matsuhira Message-ID: <56E747BB.2040603@jp.fujitsu.com> Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:22:35 +0900 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Cc: matsuhira@jp.fujitsu.com Subject: Re: [sunset4] Agenda items? X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 23:22:49 -0000 I would like to request slot for presentation of these IDs. https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-matsuhira-m46e-fp-00.txt https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-matsuhira-m46e-pr-00.txt Regards, Naoki Matsuhira On 2016/03/15 2:28, George, Wes wrote: > As you can see, we have a meeting scheduled for BA. > As of right now, we have a single agenda item: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-howard-sunset4-v4historic-00 > > While I fully expect that this item can expand to fill all available > time, if there are other things that the WG wishes to discuss, please > respond ASAP to request agenda time. > > Thanks, > > Wes > > Anything below this line has been added by my company’s mail server, I > have no control over it. > > ----------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable > proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject > to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. > If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby > notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken > in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is > strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this > E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently > delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. > > > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 > From nobody Tue Mar 15 05:09:24 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5419412D9C6 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 05:09:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.007 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.007 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_03_06=1.592, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1K5D23tWYQIe for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 05:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl4mhob14.myregisteredsite.com (atl4mhob14.myregisteredsite.com [209.17.115.52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AD9E12D9B9 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 05:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailpod.hostingplatform.com ([10.30.71.206]) by atl4mhob14.myregisteredsite.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u2FC9HcM027542 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:09:17 -0400 Received: (qmail 7995 invoked by uid 0); 15 Mar 2016 12:09:17 -0000 X-TCPREMOTEIP: 68.100.192.186 X-Authenticated-UID: lee@asgard.org Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.12?) (lee@asgard.org@68.100.192.186) by 0 with ESMTPA; 15 Mar 2016 12:09:17 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.1.160122 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:09:14 +0100 From: Lee Howard To: "sunset4@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Declaring IPv4 Historic Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3540874157_5748514" Archived-At: Subject: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:09:23 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3540874157_5748514 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable As noted below, I=B9ve posted a draft. I thought I=B9d start a thread for discussing it. PLEASE Please please read the draft before commenting. It=B9s very short, les= s than 500 words, and I anticipate a lot of people having strong feelings about it. I would really rather not waste time arguing about things it doesn=B9t say. To that end, I=B9ve also written a blog post, explaining in a level of detail I thought inappropriate for the draft: http://www.wleecoyote.com/blog/ipv4-historic.htm Thank you, Lee From: sunset4 on behalf of Wesley George Date: Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:28 PM To: "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: [sunset4] Agenda items? > As you can see, we have a meeting scheduled for BA. > As of right now, we have a single agenda item: >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-howard-sunset4-v4historic-00 >=20 > While I fully expect that this item can expand to fill all available time= , if > there are other things that the WG wishes to discuss, please respond ASAP= to > request agenda time. >=20 > Thanks, > =20 > Wes > =20 > Anything below this line has been added by my company=B9s mail server, I ha= ve no > control over it. > ----------- >=20 >=20 >=20 > This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable > proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to > copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely = for > the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are = not > the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the > contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may= be > unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the se= nder > immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-ma= il > and any printout. > _______________________________________________ sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 --B_3540874157_5748514 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
As noted below, I’ve po= sted a draft. I thought I’d start a thread for discussing it.

PLEASE Please please read the draft before commenting. It&#= 8217;s very short, less than 500 words, and I anticipate a lot of people hav= ing strong feelings about it. I would really rather not waste time arguing a= bout things it doesn’t say.

To that end, I= 217;ve also written a blog post, explaining in a level of detail I thought i= nappropriate for the draft: http://www.wleecoyote.com/blog/ipv4-historic.htm

Thank you,

Lee

<= span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: sunset4 <sunset4-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Wesley G= eorge <Wesley.George@twcable.c= om>
Date: Monday, March 14,= 2016 at 6:28 PM
To: "sunset4@ietf.org" <sunset4@ietf.org>
Subject: [sunset4] Agenda items?

As you can see, we have a mee= ting scheduled for BA. 
As of right now, we have a single age= nda item:


While I fully expect that th= is item can expand to fill all available time, if there are other things tha= t the WG wishes to discuss, please respond ASAP to request agenda time. = ;

Thanks,

 

Wes

=

 

Anyth= ing below this line has been added by my company’s mail server, I have= no control over it.

--------= ---



This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable propri= etary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyrigh= t belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the use= of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mai= l, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or= action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail = is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the = sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this = E-mail and any printout.
_______________________________________________ sunset4 mailing list sunset4@ietf.org https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/sunset4
--B_3540874157_5748514-- From nobody Tue Mar 15 05:30:05 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C4D12D79A for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 05:29:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FgSRsviM2Y4Q for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 05:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E759712D9C6 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 05:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.20.10.4] (modemcable093.65-160-184.mc.videotron.ca [184.160.65.93]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 549C347688; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:29:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc Blanchet" To: "Lee Howard" Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:29:51 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_16A49255-189F-4D10-8480-F33FBC45550D_=" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.3r5187) Archived-At: Cc: "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:29:57 -0000 --=_MailMate_16A49255-189F-4D10-8480-F33FBC45550D_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; markup=markdown Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 15 Mar 2016, at 3:09, Lee Howard wrote: > As noted below, I¹ve posted a draft. I thought I¹d start a thread > for > discussing it. starting the discussion ;-) - courageous you are. «  The IETF does not update Historic RFCs. Therefore, the IETF will no longer work on IPv4 technologies, including transition technologies. » I think this needs clarification. For example: - what does that mean for current protocols specifications that are already dual-stacked, when they are updated? If there is a field with IPv4 address in the update specification, what does that really mean? It might just break the protocol if we avoid the IPv4 address in the update. SIP/WebRTC comes to mind… - transition technologies. you meant I guess IPv4 to IPv6 transition technologies. Might be good to be more explicit. - transition technologies: there are a few that are « helping » IPv6 deployment, one in mind is NAT64/DNS64. Does this mean we can not work on augmenting/making NAT64/DNS64 better? Marc. > > PLEASE Please please read the draft before commenting. It¹s very > short, less > than 500 words, and I anticipate a lot of people having strong > feelings > about it. I would really rather not waste time arguing about things it > doesn¹t say. > > To that end, I¹ve also written a blog post, explaining in a level of > detail > I thought inappropriate for the draft: > http://www.wleecoyote.com/blog/ipv4-historic.htm > > Thank you, > > Lee > > From: sunset4 on behalf of Wesley George > > Date: Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:28 PM > To: "sunset4@ietf.org" > Subject: [sunset4] Agenda items? > >> As you can see, we have a meeting scheduled for BA. >> As of right now, we have a single agenda item: >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-howard-sunset4-v4historic-00 >> >> While I fully expect that this item can expand to fill all available >> time, if >> there are other things that the WG wishes to discuss, please respond >> ASAP to >> request agenda time. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Wes >> >> Anything below this line has been added by my company¹s mail server, >> I have no >> control over it. >> ----------- >> >> >> >> This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable >> proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or >> subject to >> copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended >> solely for >> the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you >> are not >> the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that >> any >> dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to >> the >> contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and >> may be >> unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify >> the sender >> immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this >> E-mail >> and any printout. >> _______________________________________________ sunset4 mailing list >> sunset4@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 > > > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 --=_MailMate_16A49255-189F-4D10-8480-F33FBC45550D_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 15 Mar 2016, at 3:09, Lee Howard wrote:

As noted below, I=C2=B9ve posted a draft. I thought I=C2=B9= d start a thread for
discussing it.

starting the discussion ;-)
- courageous you are.

=C2=AB=C2=A0 The IETF does not update Historic RFCs. T= herefore, the IETF will no
longer work on IPv4 technologies, including transition technologies.=C2= =A0=C2=BB

I think this needs clarification. For example:
- what does that mean for current protocols specifications that are alrea= dy dual-stacked, when they are updated? If there is a field with IPv4 add= ress in the update specification, what does that really mean? It might j= ust break the protocol if we avoid the IPv4 address in the update. SIP/We= bRTC comes to mind=E2=80=A6
- transition technologies. you meant I guess IPv4 to IPv6 transition tec= hnologies. Might be good to be more explicit.
- transition technologies: there are a few that are =C2=AB=C2=A0helping=C2= =A0=C2=BB IPv6 deployment, one in mind is NAT64/DNS64. Does this mean we = can not work on augmenting/making NAT64/DNS64 better?

Marc.

PLEASE Please please read the draft before commenting. It= =C2=B9s very short, less
than 500 words, and I anticipate a lot of people having strong feelings about it. I would really rather not waste time arguing about things it doesn=C2=B9t say.

To that end, I=C2=B9ve also written a blog post, explaini= ng in a level of detail
I thought inappropriate for the draft:
http://www.w= leecoyote.com/blog/ipv4-historic.htm

Thank you,

Lee

From: sunset4 sunset4-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of Wesley George
Wesley.George@twcable.com
Date: Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:28 PM
To: "sunset4@ietf.org" sunset4@ietf.org
Subject: [sunset4] Agenda items?

As you can see, we have a meeting scheduled for BA.
As of right now, we have a single agenda item:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-howard-sunset4-v4hist= oric-00

While I fully expect that this item can expand to fill al= l available time, if
there are other things that the WG wishes to discuss, please respond ASAP= to
request agenda time.

Thanks,

Wes

Anything below this line has been added by my company=C2=B9= s mail server, I have no

control over it.

This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time W= arner Cable
proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to=
copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely = for
the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are = not
the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the<= br> contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may= be
unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the se= nder
immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-ma= il
and any printout.
_______________________________________________ sunset4 mailing list
sunset4@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/sunset4

sunset4 mailing list
sunset4@ietf.org
https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4

--=_MailMate_16A49255-189F-4D10-8480-F33FBC45550D_=-- From nobody Tue Mar 15 05:43:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FCA12D589 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 05:43:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.828 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.828 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p_YOSCVoqSdx for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 05:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdpipgw01.twcable.com (unknown [165.237.59.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C17512DA0B for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 05:42:57 -0700 (PDT) X-SENDER-IP: 10.64.163.149 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.24,339,1454994000"; d="scan'208";a="1234894422" Received: from unknown (HELO exchpapp08.corp.twcable.com) ([10.64.163.149]) by cdpipgw01.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 15 Mar 2016 08:37:31 -0400 Received: from EXCHPAPP03.corp.twcable.com (10.64.163.144) by exchpapp08.corp.twcable.com (10.64.163.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1156.6; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:42:55 -0400 Received: from EXCHPAPP03.corp.twcable.com ([10.64.163.144]) by exchpapp03.corp.twcable.com ([10.64.163.144]) with mapi id 15.00.1156.000; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:42:55 -0400 From: "George, Wes" To: Naoki Matsuhira , "sunset4@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Agenda items? Thread-Index: AQHRfrgyTXIU7Y2gj0qtCdxJS4EJVQ== Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:42:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <56E747BB.2040603@jp.fujitsu.com> In-Reply-To: <56E747BB.2040603@jp.fujitsu.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.1.160122 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.64.163.240] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-11.0.0.1191-8.000.1202-22194.005 x-tm-as-result: No--55.917700-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sunset4] Agenda items? X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:43:09 -0000 SSdkIGxpa2UgdG8gZ2V0IHNvbWUgb3RoZXIgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBvbiBsaXN0LCBlaXRoZXIgc3Vw cG9ydCBvcg0Kbm9uLXN1cHBvcnQgZm9yIGRpc2N1c3NpbmcgdGhpcyBpbiB0aGUgbWVldGluZywg YXMgY3VycmVudGx5IG9ubHkgbXlzZWxmDQphbmQgb25lIG90aGVyIHBlcnNvbiBoYXMgcmVzcG9u ZGVkLg0KDQpBcyBhIGNoYWlyLCBJIG5vdGUgdGhhdCB5b3UgaGF2ZSBhIG51bWJlciBvZiBvdXRz dGFuZGluZyBjb21tZW50cw0KcmVnYXJkaW5nIGFjdHVhbCB1c2UgY2FzZSBhbmQgcHJvYmxlbSB0 aGF0IHlvdSdyZSBzb2x2aW5nIHRoYXQgYXJlIG5vdA0KcmVhbGx5IGFkZHJlc3NlZCB0byBteSBz YXRpc2ZhY3Rpb24geWV0LCBsZWFkaW5nIG1lIHRvIGJlbGlldmUgdGhhdCB3ZSdkDQplbmQgdXAg cmV2aXNpdGluZyB0aGUgc2FtZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIHRoYXQgaGFzIGhhcHBlbmVkIG9uLWxpc3Qg dGh1cyBmYXIuDQpZb3UgaGF2ZSB1bnRpbCAyMSBNYXJjaCB0byBzdWJtaXQgcmV2aXNlZCBkcmFm dHMuIEkgc3VnZ2VzdCB0aGF0IHlvdSB0YWtlDQphZHZhbnRhZ2Ugb2YgdGhhdC4NCg0KVGhhbmtz LA0KDQpXZXMNCg0KDQoNCk9uIDMvMTQvMTYsIDc6MjIgUE0sICJOYW9raSBNYXRzdWhpcmEiIDxt YXRzdWhpcmFAanAuZnVqaXRzdS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+DQo+SSB3b3VsZCBsaWtlIHRvIHJl cXVlc3Qgc2xvdCBmb3IgcHJlc2VudGF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZXNlIElEcy4NCj4NCj5odHRwczovL3d3 dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9pZC9kcmFmdC1tYXRzdWhpcmEtbTQ2ZS1mcC0wMC50eHQNCj5odHRwczovL3d3 dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9pZC9kcmFmdC1tYXRzdWhpcmEtbTQ2ZS1wci0wMC50eHQNCj4NCj5SZWdhcmRz LA0KPg0KPk5hb2tpIE1hdHN1aGlyYQ0KPg0KPk9uIDIwMTYvMDMvMTUgMjoyOCwgR2VvcmdlLCBX ZXMgd3JvdGU6DQo+PiBBcyB5b3UgY2FuIHNlZSwgd2UgaGF2ZSBhIG1lZXRpbmcgc2NoZWR1bGVk IGZvciBCQS4NCj4+IEFzIG9mIHJpZ2h0IG5vdywgd2UgaGF2ZSBhIHNpbmdsZSBhZ2VuZGEgaXRl bToNCj4+DQo+PiBodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtaG93YXJkLXN1bnNl dDQtdjRoaXN0b3JpYy0wMA0KPj4NCj4+IFdoaWxlIEkgZnVsbHkgZXhwZWN0IHRoYXQgdGhpcyBp dGVtIGNhbiBleHBhbmQgdG8gZmlsbCBhbGwgYXZhaWxhYmxlDQo+PiB0aW1lLCBpZiB0aGVyZSBh cmUgb3RoZXIgdGhpbmdzIHRoYXQgdGhlIFdHIHdpc2hlcyB0byBkaXNjdXNzLCBwbGVhc2UNCj4+ IHJlc3BvbmQgQVNBUCB0byByZXF1ZXN0IGFnZW5kYSB0aW1lLg0KPj4NCj4+IFRoYW5rcywNCj4+ DQo+PiBXZXMNCj4+DQo+PiBBbnl0aGluZyBiZWxvdyB0aGlzIGxpbmUgaGFzIGJlZW4gYWRkZWQg YnkgbXkgY29tcGFueeKAmXMgbWFpbCBzZXJ2ZXIsIEkNCj4+IGhhdmUgbm8gY29udHJvbCBvdmVy IGl0Lg0KPj4NCj4+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+Pg0KPj4NCj4+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KPj4N Cj4+IFRoaXMgRS1tYWlsIGFuZCBhbnkgb2YgaXRzIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzIG1heSBjb250YWluIFRp bWUgV2FybmVyIENhYmxlDQo+PiBwcm9wcmlldGFyeSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgd2hpY2ggaXMgcHJp dmlsZWdlZCwgY29uZmlkZW50aWFsLCBvciBzdWJqZWN0DQo+PiB0byBjb3B5cmlnaHQgYmVsb25n aW5nIHRvIFRpbWUgV2FybmVyIENhYmxlLiBUaGlzIEUtbWFpbCBpcyBpbnRlbmRlZA0KPj4gc29s ZWx5IGZvciB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIHRoZSBpbmRpdmlkdWFsIG9yIGVudGl0eSB0byB3aGljaCBpdCBp cyBhZGRyZXNzZWQuDQo+PiBJZiB5b3UgYXJlIG5vdCB0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50IG9m IHRoaXMgRS1tYWlsLCB5b3UgYXJlIGhlcmVieQ0KPj4gbm90aWZpZWQgdGhhdCBhbnkgZGlzc2Vt aW5hdGlvbiwgZGlzdHJpYnV0aW9uLCBjb3B5aW5nLCBvciBhY3Rpb24gdGFrZW4NCj4+IGluIHJl bGF0aW9uIHRvIHRoZSBjb250ZW50cyBvZiBhbmQgYXR0YWNobWVudHMgdG8gdGhpcyBFLW1haWwg aXMNCj4+IHN0cmljdGx5IHByb2hpYml0ZWQgYW5kIG1heSBiZSB1bmxhd2Z1bC4gSWYgeW91IGhh dmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgdGhpcw0KPj4gRS1tYWlsIGluIGVycm9yLCBwbGVhc2Ugbm90aWZ5IHRoZSBz ZW5kZXIgaW1tZWRpYXRlbHkgYW5kIHBlcm1hbmVudGx5DQo+PiBkZWxldGUgdGhlIG9yaWdpbmFs IGFuZCBhbnkgY29weSBvZiB0aGlzIEUtbWFpbCBhbmQgYW55IHByaW50b3V0Lg0KPj4NCj4+DQo+ PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4gc3Vu c2V0NCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4+IHN1bnNldDRAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lmll dGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vc3Vuc2V0NA0KPj4NCg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KDQpUaGlzIEUtbWFpbCBhbmQgYW55IG9mIGl0cyBhdHRhY2htZW50 cyBtYXkgY29udGFpbiBUaW1lIFdhcm5lciBDYWJsZSBwcm9wcmlldGFyeSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiwg d2hpY2ggaXMgcHJpdmlsZWdlZCwgY29uZmlkZW50aWFsLCBvciBzdWJqZWN0IHRvIGNvcHlyaWdo dCBiZWxvbmdpbmcgdG8gVGltZSBXYXJuZXIgQ2FibGUuIFRoaXMgRS1tYWlsIGlzIGludGVuZGVk IHNvbGVseSBmb3IgdGhlIHVzZSBvZiB0aGUgaW5kaXZpZHVhbCBvciBlbnRpdHkgdG8gd2hpY2gg aXQgaXMgYWRkcmVzc2VkLiBJZiB5b3UgYXJlIG5vdCB0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50IG9m IHRoaXMgRS1tYWlsLCB5b3UgYXJlIGhlcmVieSBub3RpZmllZCB0aGF0IGFueSBkaXNzZW1pbmF0 aW9uLCBkaXN0cmlidXRpb24sIGNvcHlpbmcsIG9yIGFjdGlvbiB0YWtlbiBpbiByZWxhdGlvbiB0 byB0aGUgY29udGVudHMgb2YgYW5kIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzIHRvIHRoaXMgRS1tYWlsIGlzIHN0cmlj dGx5IHByb2hpYml0ZWQgYW5kIG1heSBiZSB1bmxhd2Z1bC4gSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQg dGhpcyBFLW1haWwgaW4gZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkgdGhlIHNlbmRlciBpbW1lZGlhdGVs eSBhbmQgcGVybWFuZW50bHkgZGVsZXRlIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCBhbmQgYW55IGNvcHkgb2YgdGhp cyBFLW1haWwgYW5kIGFueSBwcmludG91dC4NCg== From nobody Tue Mar 15 09:48:37 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FD2612D61A for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 09:48:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tz8G4JdNhHtB for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 09:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stereo.hq.phicoh.net (stereo6-he.hq.phicoh.net [IPv6:2001:470:d16a:10:2a0:c9ff:fe9f:17a9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE5412DAEB for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 09:47:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stereo.hq.phicoh.net (localhost [::ffff:127.0.0.1]) by stereo.hq.phicoh.net with esmtp (Smail #91) id m1afs8H-0000FjC; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:47:45 +0100 Message-Id: To: sunset4@ietf.org From: Philip Homburg Sender: pch-bBB316E3E@u-1.phicoh.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:09:14 +0100 ." Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:47:44 +0100 Archived-At: Cc: Lee Howard Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 16:48:35 -0000 > PLEASE Please please read the draft before commenting. It's very > short, less than 500 words, and I anticipate a lot of people > having strong feelings about it. I would really rather not waste > time arguing about things it doesn't say. > > To that end, I've also written a blog post, explaining in a > level of detail I thought inappropriate for the draft: > [1]http://www.wleecoyote.com/blog/ipv4-historic.htm It seems to me that the implications of Section 3 make it that this draft should not be published. I think 'It does mean that any Standards Track RFC with a Normative reference to RFC791 is Historic.' is also problematic. If you can't develop new standards that involve the protocol that carries more than 50% of the world internet traffic, then you are doing something wrong. From nobody Tue Mar 15 10:15:45 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 474A312DB3C for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:15:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vMSxqGiqmeqE for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x233.google.com (mail-vk0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2372312D663 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:15:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk0-x233.google.com with SMTP id c3so29287967vkb.3 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:15:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to; bh=MObCM9Y4qPR+xjYVV5UwB9X2H4VMuC1VptS1UkH5Ivw=; b=Bz/gyoY3oz0N235Ra2AoT+BTcq2qUNHSjpeklpM6hbdiDTT7X3jvAUOTRDkoVlEDx/ 0uSlbaGqTvy1ESN2vJYHuDPNtb5DJ7QxKZewArLR2jjVZuyTKnxk8DcZ1Y+YP0vSk0oJ EnJyuYBSJg2Sa+wAOsxHNTNxhbTi3V3wste2SufeU+wILFwi5Fq+A5WlEkNjFpV+CcxH FMgptQ7syashSU/SuQDDWo+GukRxaenTziSFB2pNa5YnXjD13j3OGfmZqRcb3i5qeNoL 8eVA7LSNCE0jjVpeaPMabe7X0JejkWariTZUN2iR9Kp1xdRbnRV3NntYsVuPlwvQmMnA Mjag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=MObCM9Y4qPR+xjYVV5UwB9X2H4VMuC1VptS1UkH5Ivw=; b=ZJIwrQb9j2UEVM5eWCI/4xZzJm/alcE6+H2fbLvA1irf8zoVi1y/LPqnh1hjdRnICm oCUGgHTmM65vOxDhlUYxq8YaoDv7lui4Bj7MvI8CxYggFxoTUUacVluVCZJKv624hvfI zKdGkQfw/PyFxiDbTQRUjgsV6gKXWetbDaK4Bfbhszs4qA85+2wa9CsSgQuSu0ovAn6L VK8jdy6a9cLYwfiWDbmyy4a/pDQ68K1oJZfgWG9zPwRHROvPTYILFcQY6H1ACz3C0pEA tp5QhDvp9WoefcZGY+xr+i1RWW1gAPV2DZCMysIleCwC1xmoa1EV11BjtAJw5qHYJQjt g/ag== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJwNDXNxU85QzeCHzyMU7PfUrZW1guIvXVBvpmTGp949TbyDonoCkXohiMLsAISLQ== X-Received: by 10.31.8.17 with SMTP id 17mr28877783vki.139.1458062139213; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:15:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.11.120] ([201.210.100.165]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id o141sm9829328vkd.19.2016.03.15.10.15.37 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:15:38 -0700 (PDT) To: sunset4@ietf.org References: From: Alejandro Acosta X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110 Message-ID: <56E84335.4090709@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:45:33 -0430 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080806030301020702090403" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:15:44 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080806030301020702090403 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Lee, I read both, your blog post and your draft. I believe this is a quite interesting idea, actually I support it but my suggestion is to make (the whole draft) it more "IPv4 core" centric. I mean, for example: "The IETF does not update Historic RFCs. Therefore, the IETF will no longer work on IPv4 technologies, including transition technologies. " I would remove transition technologies, also, as suggested by Marc, more context around this text would be a good idea. Regards, Alejandro, El 3/15/2016 a las 2:39 AM, Lee Howard escribió: > As noted below, I’ve posted a draft. I thought I’d start a thread for > discussing it. > > PLEASE Please please read the draft before commenting. It’s very > short, less than 500 words, and I anticipate a lot of people having > strong feelings about it. I would really rather not waste time arguing > about things it doesn’t say. > > To that end, I’ve also written a blog post, explaining in a level of > detail I thought inappropriate for the > draft: http://www.wleecoyote.com/blog/ipv4-historic.htm > > Thank you, > > Lee > > From: sunset4 > on behalf of Wesley George > > > Date: Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:28 PM > To: "sunset4@ietf.org " > > Subject: [sunset4] Agenda items? > > As you can see, we have a meeting scheduled for BA. > As of right now, we have a single agenda item: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-howard-sunset4-v4historic-00 > > While I fully expect that this item can expand to fill all > available time, if there are other things that the WG wishes to > discuss, please respond ASAP to request agenda time. > > Thanks, > > > > Wes > > > > Anything below this line has been added by my company’s mail > server, I have no control over it. > > ----------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner > Cable proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, > or subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This > E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity > to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of > this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, > distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents > of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may > be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please > notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original > and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. > _______________________________________________ sunset4 mailing > list sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 > > > > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 --------------080806030301020702090403 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Lee,
  I read both, your blog post and your draft.
  I believe this is a quite interesting idea, actually I support it but my suggestion is to make (the whole draft) it more "IPv4 core" centric.
  I mean, for example:

"The IETF does not update Historic RFCs.  Therefore, the IETF will no
   longer work on IPv4 technologies, including transition technologies.
"

  I would remove transition technologies, also, as suggested by Marc, more context around this text would be a good idea.
 
Regards,

Alejandro,


El 3/15/2016 a las 2:39 AM, Lee Howard escribió:
As noted below, I’ve posted a draft. I thought I’d start a thread for discussing it.

PLEASE Please please read the draft before commenting. It’s very short, less than 500 words, and I anticipate a lot of people having strong feelings about it. I would really rather not waste time arguing about things it doesn’t say.

To that end, I’ve also written a blog post, explaining in a level of detail I thought inappropriate for the draft: http://www.wleecoyote.com/blog/ipv4-historic.htm

Thank you,

Lee

From: sunset4 <sunset4-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Wesley George <Wesley.George@twcable.com>
Date: Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:28 PM
To: "sunset4@ietf.org" <sunset4@ietf.org>
Subject: [sunset4] Agenda items?

As you can see, we have a meeting scheduled for BA. 
As of right now, we have a single agenda item:


While I fully expect that this item can expand to fill all available time, if there are other things that the WG wishes to discuss, please respond ASAP to request agenda time. 

Thanks,

 

Wes

 

Anything below this line has been added by my company’s mail server, I have no control over it.

-----------



This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout.
_______________________________________________ sunset4 mailing list sunset4@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 


_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4

--------------080806030301020702090403-- From nobody Tue Mar 15 10:24:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 207F512D5D3 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:24:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.591 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.591 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9-HKDYEBzaTx for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crp-spam-02.corp.cira.ca (mx2.cira.ca [192.228.22.117]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9139612D586 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:24:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at corp.cira.ca Received: from EXCH-01.CORP.CIRA.CA ([fe80::2073:dbc0:bb14:ab50]) by EXCH-02.CORP.CIRA.CA ([fe80::3c25:d5f2:72b8:e35c%17]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:24:09 -0400 From: Jacques Latour To: Alejandro Acosta , "sunset4@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic Thread-Index: AQHRfrOGfZOvot/mt0i5ZhFdM84CCp9bAjeA//+9nxA= Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:24:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <56E84335.4090709@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <56E84335.4090709@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US, en-CA Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.16.4.84] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C059877D829F76429F49E0B48705D888DDDEA7FDEXCH01CORPCIRAC_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:24:14 -0000 --_000_C059877D829F76429F49E0B48705D888DDDEA7FDEXCH01CORPCIRAC_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lee, It's the right thing to do to set a stake in the ground and stop developing= new standards that rely on IPv4. Why not now? +1 I think your draft is more appropriate at this time than the one we were wo= rking on to shutdown IPv4 on a specific date (https://github.com/jacqueslat= our/Shutdown-IPv4) Jacques From: sunset4 [mailto:sunset4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alejandro Acos= ta Sent: March-15-16 1:16 PM To: sunset4@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic Hi Lee, I read both, your blog post and your draft. I believe this is a quite interesting idea, actually I support it but my = suggestion is to make (the whole draft) it more "IPv4 core" centric. I mean, for example: "The IETF does not update Historic RFCs. Therefore, the IETF will no longer work on IPv4 technologies, including transition technologies. " I would remove transition technologies, also, as suggested by Marc, more = context around this text would be a good idea. Regards, Alejandro, El 3/15/2016 a las 2:39 AM, Lee Howard escribi=F3: As noted below, I've posted a draft. I thought I'd start a thread for discu= ssing it. PLEASE Please please read the draft before commenting. It's very short, les= s than 500 words, and I anticipate a lot of people having strong feelings a= bout it. I would really rather not waste time arguing about things it doesn= 't say. To that end, I've also written a blog post, explaining in a level of detail= I thought inappropriate for the draft: http://www.wleecoyote.com/blog/ipv4= -historic.htm Thank you, Lee From: sunset4 > o= n behalf of Wesley George > Date: Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:28 PM To: "sunset4@ietf.org" > Subject: [sunset4] Agenda items? As you can see, we have a meeting scheduled for BA. As of right now, we have a single agenda item: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-howard-sunset4-v4historic-00 While I fully expect that this item can expand to fill all available time, = if there are other things that the WG wishes to discuss, please respond ASA= P to request agenda time. Thanks, Wes Anything below this line has been added by my company's mail server, I have= no control over it. ----------- ________________________________ This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable propri= etary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyrig= ht belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the u= se of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the= intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissem= ination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents= of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawf= ul. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender imm= ediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail an= d any printout. _______________________________________________ sunset4 mailing list sunset= 4@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/s= unset4 _______________________________________________ sunset4 mailing list sunset4@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 --_000_C059877D829F76429F49E0B48705D888DDDEA7FDEXCH01CORPCIRAC_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Lee,

 <= /p>

It's the right thing to d= o to set a stake in the ground and stop developing new standards that rely = on IPv4. Why not now?  +1

 <= /p>

I think your draft is mor= e appropriate at this time than the one we were working on to shutdown IPv4= on a specific date (https://github.com/jacqueslatour/Shutdown-IPv4)<= /p>

 <= /p>

Jacques=

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From:= sunset4 [mailto:sun= set4-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alejandro Acosta
Sent: March-15-16 1:16 PM
To: sunset4@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic

 

Hi Lee,
  I read both, your blog post and your draft.
  I believe this is a quite interesting idea, actually I support it bu= t my suggestion is to make (the whole draft) it more "IPv4 core" = centric.
  I mean, for example:

"The IETF does not update Historic RFCs.  Therefore, the IETF wil= l no
   longer work on IPv4 technologies, including transition technol= ogies.
"

  I would remove transition technologies, also, as suggested by Marc, = more context around this text would be a good idea.
 
Regards,

Alejandro,


El 3/15/2016 a las 2:39 AM, Lee Howard escribi=F3:

As noted below, I’ve posted a draft. I thought= I’d start a thread for discussing it.

 

PLEASE Please please read the draft before commentin= g. It’s very short, less than 500 words, and I anticipate a lot of pe= ople having strong feelings about it. I would really rather not waste time = arguing about things it doesn’t say.

 

To that end, I’ve also written a blog post, ex= plaining in a level of detail I thought inappropriate for the draft: <= a href=3D"http://www.wleecoyote.com/blog/ipv4-historic.htm">http://www.wlee= coyote.com/blog/ipv4-historic.htm

 

Thank you,

 

Lee

 

From: sunset4 <sunset4-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Wesley George <Wesley.George@twcable.com> Date: Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:28 PM
To: "sunset4@ietf.org&q= uot; <sunset4@ietf.org>
Subject: [sunset4] Agenda items?

 

As you can see, we have a meeting sched= uled for BA. 

As of right now, we have a single agend= a item:

 

 

While I fully expect that this item can= expand to fill all available time, if there are other things that the WG w= ishes to discuss, please respond ASAP to request agenda time. 

 

Thanks,<= /span>

 

Wes

 

Anything below this= line has been added by my company’s mail server, I have no control o= ver it.

-----------

 


This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable propri= etary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyrig= ht belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the u= se of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mai= l, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, o= r action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mai= l is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the = sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this= E-mail and any printout.

_______________________________________________ suns= et4 mailing list sunset4@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 




_______________________________________________
sunset4 mailing list
sunset4@ietf.org

https://www.=
ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4

 

--_000_C059877D829F76429F49E0B48705D888DDDEA7FDEXCH01CORPCIRAC_-- From nobody Tue Mar 15 10:27:02 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 698E312D647 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:27:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xB2cuqLgFgcx for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjc1-mx02-inside.nominum.com (sjc1-mx02-inside.nominum.com [64.89.234.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 548F412D640 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:27:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-03.win.nominum.com [64.89.235.66]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certificate Authority - G2" (verified OK)) by sjc1-mx02-inside.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D9DC740029; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:27:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mbx-03.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([169.254.4.19]) by CAS-03.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.235.66]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:26:59 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: Philip Homburg , "sunset4@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic Thread-Index: AQHRftplp7HcFaK2QkK/zW25rJegsJ9aweh4 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:26:58 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630797A3F18C@mbx-03.WIN.NOMINUM.COM> References: Your message of "Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:09:14 +0100 ." , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [71.233.41.235] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Lee Howard Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:27:01 -0000 When was the last document published that updated one of the IPv4 specifica= tions? Are we counting routing drafts? From nobody Tue Mar 15 10:40:57 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57BA612D586 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:40:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.239 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.239 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_03_06=1.592, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.77] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id baFTBwWJAzvy for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:40:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl4mhob14.myregisteredsite.com (atl4mhob14.myregisteredsite.com [209.17.115.52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1653212DC68 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailpod.hostingplatform.com ([10.30.71.204]) by atl4mhob14.myregisteredsite.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u2FHeSHa018051 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:40:28 -0400 Received: (qmail 1699 invoked by uid 0); 15 Mar 2016 17:40:28 -0000 X-TCPREMOTEIP: 204.235.115.163 X-Authenticated-UID: lee@asgard.org Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.71.36.43?) (lee@asgard.org@204.235.115.163) by 0 with ESMTPA; 15 Mar 2016 17:40:27 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.1.160122 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:40:24 +0100 From: Lee Howard To: Ted Lemon , Philip Homburg , "sunset4@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630797A3F18C@mbx-03.WIN.NOMINUM.COM> In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630797A3F18C@mbx-03.WIN.NOMINUM.COM> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 17:40:55 -0000 (I do not intend to reply to every message; I would rather hear opinions, and occasionally summarize points for discuss or check consensus on individual points; but answering questions is different) On 3/15/16, 6:26 PM, "Ted Lemon" wrote: >When was the last document published that updated one of the IPv4 >specifications? > >Are we counting routing drafts? https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc791 says that rfc791 has been updated three times: RFC 1349 , Type of Service in the Internet Protocol Suite, 1992. RFC 2474 , Definition of the Differentiated Services Field (DS Field) in the IPv4 and IPv6 Headers, 1998. RFC 6864 , Updated Specification of the IPv4 ID Field, 2013. I would argue that if a case like any of those happened today, it would be fine to update IPv6 and leave IPv4 as it is. Lee From nobody Tue Mar 15 11:01:13 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57DAC12DC06 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:01:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YDk6mRb8-s4U for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjc1-mx02-inside.nominum.com (sjc1-mx02-inside.nominum.com [64.89.234.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 009ED12DC68 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webmail.nominum.com (cas-04.win.nominum.com [64.89.235.67]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mail.nominum.com", Issuer "Go Daddy Secure Certificate Authority - G2" (verified OK)) by sjc1-mx02-inside.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0E9D74002E for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:01:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mbx-03.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([169.254.4.19]) by CAS-04.WIN.NOMINUM.COM ([64.89.235.67]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:01:08 -0700 From: Ted Lemon To: "sunset4@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic Thread-Index: AQHRftplp7HcFaK2QkK/zW25rJegsJ9aweh4gAAlbAD//+O1XA== Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:01:07 +0000 Message-ID: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630797A3F1C7@mbx-03.WIN.NOMINUM.COM> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630797A3F18C@mbx-03.WIN.NOMINUM.COM>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [71.233.41.235] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:01:12 -0000 > >Are we counting routing drafts? > https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc791 says that rfc791 has been updated three times: So, "no"? :) Ah, I should have read more carefully--you do say explicitly that you are j= ust talking about RFC 791. I don't really see the point of this, but I don't have a specific objection= , either. From nobody Tue Mar 15 11:33:56 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F7AF12D5D4 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:33:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xtFdAMbKKkuc for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9081F12D672 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mb-2.local ([IPv6:2601:647:4204:51:6031:96a1:90c1:c5b8]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id u2FIXhUA003119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:33:44 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) To: Ted Lemon , Philip Homburg , "sunset4@ietf.org" References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630797A3F18C@mbx-03.WIN.NOMINUM.COM> From: joel jaeggli Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:33:42 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630797A3F18C@mbx-03.WIN.NOMINUM.COM> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Gw6B4Ae4ilcH5xSfdjXQbJod0shVa4tou" Archived-At: Cc: Lee Howard Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:33:54 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --Gw6B4Ae4ilcH5xSfdjXQbJod0shVa4tou Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="2IohIKITXCT2F5PGrsFbVgev7pLqhh6hc" From: joel jaeggli To: Ted Lemon , Philip Homburg , "sunset4@ietf.org" Cc: Lee Howard Message-ID: Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630797A3F18C@mbx-03.WIN.NOMINUM.COM> In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630797A3F18C@mbx-03.WIN.NOMINUM.COM> --2IohIKITXCT2F5PGrsFbVgev7pLqhh6hc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/15/16 10:26 AM, Ted Lemon wrote: > When was the last document published that updated one of the IPv4 speci= fications? I didn't look very hard, but 6864 updates RFC 791, RFC 2003, RFC 1122 > Are we counting routing drafts? >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 >=20 --2IohIKITXCT2F5PGrsFbVgev7pLqhh6hc-- --Gw6B4Ae4ilcH5xSfdjXQbJod0shVa4tou Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iEYEARECAAYFAlboVYYACgkQ8AA1q7Z/VrJxuACcCPV/gd8ZzWiDml/uZbz+1igK SxwAnAiIcxtSj20xo8zxC6FADjzeDBiZ =Gnll -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Gw6B4Ae4ilcH5xSfdjXQbJod0shVa4tou-- From nobody Tue Mar 15 11:35:21 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C41E12D6E7 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:35:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dIfGPd-sTaGI for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AE6912D686 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mb-2.local ([IPv6:2601:647:4204:51:6031:96a1:90c1:c5b8]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id u2FIYvCJ003130 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:34:57 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) To: Alejandro Acosta , sunset4@ietf.org References: <56E84335.4090709@gmail.com> From: joel jaeggli Message-ID: <1ce25a8a-dc6c-b96d-54e7-24e8a9da12b9@bogus.com> Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:34:55 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <56E84335.4090709@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="7WnlrHHekS3lqqGhdxTGAj64AsHbcoK9R" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:35:20 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --7WnlrHHekS3lqqGhdxTGAj64AsHbcoK9R Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="kuoKfRPwNMh21Vr5LohlPuSDCbJ7dwqS3" From: joel jaeggli To: Alejandro Acosta , sunset4@ietf.org Message-ID: <1ce25a8a-dc6c-b96d-54e7-24e8a9da12b9@bogus.com> Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic References: <56E84335.4090709@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <56E84335.4090709@gmail.com> --kuoKfRPwNMh21Vr5LohlPuSDCbJ7dwqS3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 3/15/16 10:15 AM, Alejandro Acosta wrote: > Hi Lee, > I read both, your blog post and your draft. > I believe this is a quite interesting idea, actually I support it but= > my suggestion is to make (the whole draft) it more "IPv4 core" centric.= > I mean, for example: >=20 > "The IETF does not update Historic RFCs. Therefore, the IETF will no > longer work on IPv4 technologies, including transition technologies.= > " >=20 > I would remove transition technologies, also, as suggested by Marc, > more context around this text would be a good idea. I have demonstrably less interest in transition technologies then I do in the continued function operation and maintenance of legacy ipv4 until such time as I not longer need it. which is not to say that transition technologies don't have glaring issues. many of them do. > Regards, >=20 > Alejandro, >=20 >=20 > El 3/15/2016 a las 2:39 AM, Lee Howard escribi=F3: >> As noted below, I=92ve posted a draft. I thought I=92d start a thread = for >> discussing it. >> >> PLEASE Please please read the draft before commenting. It=92s very >> short, less than 500 words, and I anticipate a lot of people having >> strong feelings about it. I would really rather not waste time arguing= >> about things it doesn=92t say. >> >> To that end, I=92ve also written a blog post, explaining in a level of= >> detail I thought inappropriate for the >> draft: http://www.wl= eecoyote.com/blog/ipv4-historic.htm >> >> Thank you, >> >> Lee >> >> From: sunset4 >> <sunset4-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf >> of Wesley George > > >> Date: Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:28 PM >> To: "sunset4@ietf.org" > > >> Subject: [sunset4] Agenda items? >> >> As you can see, we have a meeting scheduled for BA.=20 >> As of right now, we have a single agenda item: >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-howard-sunset4-v4historic-00 >> >> While I fully expect that this item can expand to fill all >> available time, if there are other things that the WG wishes to >> discuss, please respond ASAP to request agenda time.=20 >> >> Thanks, >> >> =20 >> >> Wes >> >> =20 >> >> Anything below this line has been added by my company=92s mail >> server, I have no control over it. >> >> ----------- >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ >> >> This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner >> Cable proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, >> or subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This >> E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity >> to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of= >> this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, >> distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents= >> of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may >> be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please >> notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original >> and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. >> _______________________________________________ sunset4 mailing >> list sunset4@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4=20 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sunset4 mailing list >> sunset4@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 >=20 --kuoKfRPwNMh21Vr5LohlPuSDCbJ7dwqS3-- --7WnlrHHekS3lqqGhdxTGAj64AsHbcoK9R Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iEYEARECAAYFAlboVc8ACgkQ8AA1q7Z/VrJCBgCdGpfzX2qqlLw4DmVNpj4GHT9l kzQAn2/snbJuxR3j4GiiWQKyQnvOEtqR =Tk4W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --7WnlrHHekS3lqqGhdxTGAj64AsHbcoK9R-- From nobody Tue Mar 15 11:45:56 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C3B12DD0E for ; 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Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:45:51 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-013.cisco.com (173.37.102.23) by XCH-RCD-015.cisco.com (173.37.102.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:45:50 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-013.cisco.com ([173.37.102.23]) by XCH-RCD-013.cisco.com ([173.37.102.23]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:45:50 -0500 From: "Fred Baker (fred)" To: Ted Lemon Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic Thread-Index: AQHRfurlqQBlyyw0UkGG8FLf6g/Nhg== Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:45:50 +0000 Message-ID: <941B97F2-D0C0-44F8-BEE4-D3A3D66AC195@cisco.com> References: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630797A3F18C@mbx-03.WIN.NOMINUM.COM> In-Reply-To: <8D23D4052ABE7A4490E77B1A012B630797A3F18C@mbx-03.WIN.NOMINUM.COM> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.19.64.117] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8D1D8322-F789-448F-9553-A665F2D41289"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Lee Howard , Philip Homburg , "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:45:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8D1D8322-F789-448F-9553-A665F2D41289 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Mar 15, 2016, at 10:26 AM, Ted Lemon wrote: >=20 > When was the last document published that updated one of the IPv4 = specifications? >=20 > Are we counting routing drafts? By "one of the IPv4 specifications" do you mean RFC 791, or "a = specification using IPv4"? If you mean "updates 791", That was February 2013: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc0791 0791 Internet Protocol. J. Postel. September 1981. (Format: TXT=3D97779 bytes) (Obsoletes RFC0760) (Updated by RFC1349, RFC2474, RFC6864) (Also STD0005) (Status: INTERNET STANDARD) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC0791) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6864 6864 Updated Specification of the IPv4 ID Field. J. Touch. February = 2013. (Format: TXT=3D44418 bytes) (Updates RFC0791, RFC1122, RFC2003) (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC6864) If you mean "a specification using IPv4", that would have been in = January 2016: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6826 6826 Multipoint LDP In-Band Signaling for Point-to-Multipoint and Multipoint-to-Multipoint Label Switched Paths. IJ. Wijnands, Ed., = T. Eckert, N. Leymann, M. Napierala. January 2013. (Format: TXT=3D23927 bytes) (Updated by RFC7438) (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC6826) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7246 7246 Multipoint Label Distribution Protocol In-Band Signaling in a Virtual Routing and Forwarding (VRF) Table Context. IJ. Wijnands, Ed., P. Hitchen, N. Leymann, W. Henderickx, A. Gulko, J. Tantsura. June 2014. (Format: TXT=3D24698 bytes) (Updated by RFC7438) = (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC7246) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7438 7438 Multipoint LDP (mLDP) In-Band Signaling with Wildcards. IJ. Wijnands, Ed., E. Rosen, A. Gulko, U. Joorde, J. Tantsura. January 2015. (Format: TXT=3D36744 bytes) (Updates RFC6826, RFC7246) = (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD) (DOI: 10.17487/RFC7438) [RFC6826] and [RFC7246] define the following Opaque Value TLVs: Transit IPv4 Source TLV, Transit IPv6 Source TLV, Transit VPNv4 Source TLV, and Transit VPNv6 Source TLV. The value field of each such TLV is divided into a number of subfields, one of which contains an IP source address, and one of which contains an IP group address. Per those documents, these fields must contain valid IP addresses. Procedures for the use of a wildcard group in the following TLVs (defined in [RFC6826] or [RFC7246]) are outside the scope of the current document: Transit IPv4 Bidir TLV, Transit IPv6 Bidir TLV, Transit VPNv4 Bidir TLV, and Transit VPNv6 Bidir TLV. --Apple-Mail=_8D1D8322-F789-448F-9553-A665F2D41289 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIVAwUBVuhYXUayAOS/EQ8MAQIl5hAAzkGKBcEGLnc0cNUb7H34wiJsRVSDvhyW jA/gHPUeGzCCaNLnLfXf+0che1HeQEl1yJg0qdgW+P3lBrzBoiLEIuX2Pm7O8h/a e1wTChsijTBSwcq9MPAzMuTyz8xl+fnmGcYhTIQSSLMq5nosYegRZI7pkKMl/DzO NsIp+c005fy2X/x6U6ATeO4oCME108GEz5LtRidKv9Gdxg8ltD1EtCxmXLusNXYa AzAuiV8/XnH08tYo2MZ5vTwvASE3HNLQi6IcaWmXURyCkqvL+ggaTdk5gi2AFf9l AXyvUQVZ6T1RgHlRH18ReOfLRF7IyQqwURFDmi8UqCHaOrUfQS9R74xD6Vi2+DCE n1chLWX9yvLCssPyEnIvlO9gz4O3+B1Y0S6UI6Oxx/PICYWObB0AiMhd+fTvA/ZZ 7ZJ+PY5eMaOTlp8Hyd3JGaDgaO/TFfBozRwQWuARbr/w0Dy5E19A2Fn+7SgUAOvX YgjPzRmVqkjTgKl1HtRvM/zN1ZXb+FdvCdfiJ14nN8QSSCWYe/VSQagL4YcPMnm6 McppoAtDMa5MxrRdKkIHIp2Ct1ukf4I557Ds7DoHeaG3bT9rDtn3Rl/ukdWeamWs FxSjOmz4vnEBOqaIMsqot8NtmmJRGYGX6V3IBt1QSP1yelwbfgUKJNpLdO+x3ZDq pTRKRmaYvi0= =C+T4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_8D1D8322-F789-448F-9553-A665F2D41289-- From nobody Tue Mar 15 11:57:26 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C611612D6C2 for ; Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:57:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.622 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.622 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham 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2016 14:57:20 -0400 From: "George, Wes" To: Philip Homburg , "sunset4@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic Thread-Index: AQHRfux/lovzux5/KEeIspELAHei6A== Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:57:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.1.160122 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.64.163.240] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-11.0.0.1191-8.000.1202-22196.002 x-tm-as-result: No--43.267700-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <705D22D29CC1C8419255CBE86E03EFE4@twcable.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group 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Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:51:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=Vi6a4YOcXaMIuL+xlhak2xSD5clEC7ctPPriaUOwZro=; b=WydBrW/uQWaAZlRUgYF2xDkO1OkaiAGTIfWuecB4pCQxw06uqPd4rPATVKGEv1ng+g 5WgJcgsoK4Tui6/gmUrnBzH1Pscv5etDhiKZuV8cpAAoLlhVnZvjRB0uD1cPMrk86AVa sSo/ozSJ27fD5T8hmRtqYUQik4MlJhddS+e7muWXV6rdGeMEY1Yo9Raa5iAYxccADOvX 4Ph3QvGnPiI146Ny3m6wYrliLyMuTW7PaYxXX2b2DSl1u1AbIrTbnVEDWOZSjh0YwbE2 rDAWKEBsB7xekwFJYPNMuVm/ftRc9fwBYdvKUnukqMSWWP3/NRic/dXDk3N9i0zaDRNF a36Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=Vi6a4YOcXaMIuL+xlhak2xSD5clEC7ctPPriaUOwZro=; b=jknfmBf5U1EP8uKLUPYxP0RMI/XwygYkkOROfXdqmhf/tkEci1xCdNm3lGOhqZu1wW NndzgftFtDNbhrgWR4mA2SsmMs9jGSR9U/jZXiupFoBiC6plP2sSVq9iYyrWS/lDDQ8R 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X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 20:51:32 -0000 --e89a8f83aaefc98bd1052e1c8fd7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 11:57 AM, George, Wes wrote: > > > On 3/15/16, 12:47 PM, "sunset4 on behalf of Philip Homburg" > wrote: > > >If you can't develop new > >standards that involve the protocol that carries more than 50% of the > >world > >internet traffic, then you are doing something wrong. > > > WG] I don't think that's what this draft is suggesting. The vast majority > of IETF standards are wholly agnostic to the version number in the IP > packet, and as such will continue regardless of whether IPv4 is declared > historic. What changes is that it is no longer strictly necessary (or > permitted) to make concessions in the standard to ensure that it works > properly over the now historic IP version in cases where the IP version > matters to the protocol or standard being developed. > As an example: if I as a software developer have a program that was > originally developed to work on Windows XP, and I deprecate support for > that OS, the downrev version that I wrote before I deprecated support for > XP will keep working, and while it's possible that the new version I > optimized to run on Windows 8 and 10 might mostly still work on XP, if yo= u > file a bug complaining that something, especially a feature that I > newly-introduced on the current version of software, doesn't work on XP, > I'll ignore you. > > Additionally, consider the time scale at which IETF operates - 2-3 years > for significant deployment of new standards is usually fairly aggressive, > and this draft is going to take some time to achieve consensus, in > addition to it being dependent on IPv6 being elevated to full Standard. > I'm not convinced that by then IPv4 will still be the majority given its > current burn rate and IPv6's growth rate. > > Thanks > Wes George > > +1 to Wes and the I-D being good as is. It is crisp and clear statement of how we as the IETF are moving forward. CB Anything below this line has been added by my company=E2=80=99s mail server= , I > have no control over it. > ----------- > > > ________________________________ > > This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable > proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to > copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely > for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you > are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified th= at > any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to > the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and > may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify > the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy o= f > this E-mail and any printout. > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 > --e89a8f83aaefc98bd1052e1c8fd7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 11:57 AM, George, Wes <wesley.george@t= wcable.com> wrote:


On 3/15/16, 12:47 PM, "sunset4 on behalf of Philip Homburg"
<sunset4-bo= unces@ietf.org on behalf of pch-sunset4@u-1.phicoh.com> wrote:

>If you can't develop new
>standards that involve the protocol that carries more than 50% of the >world
>internet traffic, then you are doing something wrong.

</chair hat>
WG] I don't think that's what this draft is suggesting. The vast ma= jority
of IETF standards are wholly agnostic to the version number in the IP
packet, and as such will continue regardless of whether IPv4 is declared historic. What changes is that it is no longer strictly necessary (or
permitted) to make concessions in the standard to ensure that it works
properly over the now historic IP version in cases where the IP version
matters to the protocol or standard being developed.
As an example: if I as a software developer have a program that was
originally developed to work on Windows XP, and I deprecate support for
that OS, the downrev version that I wrote before I deprecated support for XP will keep working, and while it's possible that the new version I optimized to run on Windows 8 and 10 might mostly still work on XP, if you<= br> file a bug complaining that something, especially a feature that I
newly-introduced on the current version of software, doesn't work on XP= ,
I'll ignore you.

Additionally, consider the time scale at which IETF operates - 2-3 years for significant deployment of new standards is usually fairly aggressive, and this draft is going to take some time to achieve consensus, in
addition to it being dependent on IPv6 being elevated to full Standard.
I'm not convinced that by then IPv4 will still be the majority given it= s
current burn rate and IPv6's growth rate.

Thanks
Wes George


+1 to Wes and the I-D being good as is.=C2=A0 It is crisp and clea= r statement of how we as the IETF are moving forward.

<= div>CB=C2=A0

Anything below this line has been added by my company=E2=80=99s mail server= , I
have no control over it.
-----------


________________________________

This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable propri= etary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyrig= ht belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the u= se of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the= intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissem= ination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents= of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawf= ul. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender imm= ediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail an= d any printout.
____________________________= ___________________
sunset4 mailing list
sunset4@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4

--e89a8f83aaefc98bd1052e1c8fd7-- From nobody Wed Mar 16 06:36:43 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4121912D50A for ; Wed, 16 Mar 2016 06:36:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vqt_OsHX_JPF for ; Wed, 16 Mar 2016 06:36:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22a.google.com (mail-wm0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F148212D532 for ; Wed, 16 Mar 2016 06:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id l68so72914718wml.1 for ; Wed, 16 Mar 2016 06:36:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=D1qUHgqY1lY3E+vxxRYHDQKht4tNAF63x+Ln5EeRp0Q=; b=Htew1UZLmSnXJ9ajsv7mPGLrCcnhp6+7VoKy3B1jxSZBfgd0UNgaYgMjWTtL7pLcfU vJEygR7MA3gZWHw2C4sQyAlbaVV+I+nF1Ty0y4aLDjjUxRZ1eKqY6xz3mP0i51ts/xnt DPTkIw/hIDxmJ71mjbMN0D5U/faWc+qIw6PJncfBegzBt8STb0N/nRxygucrI0AaE4Wi Pbu99301GV2kGRjxI5cxt7RhB5gYab5vGA77l2Jmw7sgZcHDrDiYBoqec67lsZC9Z37N L8hp4Lt1AR2PZvNne5TNP+C+1ThG9OLGhvfrUMTzPMGlAdW3Le/gCAybXSTXuXutf56X +EaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=D1qUHgqY1lY3E+vxxRYHDQKht4tNAF63x+Ln5EeRp0Q=; b=EOwi3Wyv7RrJhcULbIsT3f5ZRJSO9nQ2BHc+Co71OQTdMOisZfAvV2Psuc5+DyLSJ/ HtgIzTuF+Ja/fK6Kjrdy6QssK9LH87//7433IwpEwRxyndketoqS2p2wq5Qg3Pw9gKn2 YzwDHSIA07R+4LPNfe+32HH9S+oedOsqSR3j/l5aadYWRq2v7dYxovwVUo28leszjYQA uJCKtBkhYVfc/TU4j8bY5V0mQV/VHyl0shRWwiEG2sKbGZgTjSU96hENdjkDM6vM5nDP OiC8kuSiACe7XxGERhZV26N8DwORYyBjmiVsJj311TORfcX2PBBpwBJvc4Z9rCAr4tHU jQ1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJIMpcEl9bXgzaNrY4nCtwt8m/xs7obAaHgh3gtHrqnGvEYU7dADtTF16QHivvI5ZT2TTsBF4cNCujYO8Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.205.103 with SMTP id lf7mr3840635wjc.147.1458135392390; Wed, 16 Mar 2016 06:36:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.242.70 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Mar 2016 06:36:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 08:36:32 -0500 Message-ID: From: Scott Morizot To: Lee Howard Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7ba97d68191ab3052e2a9aa0 Archived-At: Cc: "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 13:36:42 -0000 --047d7ba97d68191ab3052e2a9aa0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:09 AM, Lee Howard wrote: > As noted below, I=E2=80=99ve posted a draft. I thought I=E2=80=99d start = a thread for > discussing it. > > PLEASE Please please read the draft before commenting. It=E2=80=99s very = short, > less than 500 words, and I anticipate a lot of people having strong > feelings about it. I would really rather not waste time arguing about > things it doesn=E2=80=99t say. > > +1 I've read the draft and your blog post and it does seem like the appropriate and logical next step. Scott --047d7ba97d68191ab3052e2a9aa0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= ue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:09 AM, Lee Howard <Lee@asgard.org> wrote:=
As noted be= low, I=E2=80=99ve posted a draft. I thought I=E2=80=99d start a thread for = discussing it.

PLEASE Please please read the draft= before commenting. It=E2=80=99s very short, less than 500 words, and I ant= icipate a lot of people having strong feelings about it. I would really rat= her not waste time arguing about things it doesn=E2=80=99t say.
<= br>

+1

I've read the draft and your blog post and it does seem like the appro= priate and logical next step.

Scott=C2=A0
--047d7ba97d68191ab3052e2a9aa0-- From nobody Wed Mar 16 07:46:34 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F73112D9A5 for ; Wed, 16 Mar 2016 07:46:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -114.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-114.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bs4ghlyuTlDp for ; Wed, 16 Mar 2016 07:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D0DA12D9A1 for ; Wed, 16 Mar 2016 07:46:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2802; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1458139579; x=1459349179; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=rJ5uvHVFcNfnKMuyT2Pd4DCepDz2J6kM0H1lHXJXltQ=; b=IXW8xa6Q8cFom0BWqOBFkEzLO24zDof/Ew5Uomb4lEk9Mg1mojz6/dJU zEAydc5tm1itCMbwFfW9fAq4vJ7Jz87LEdTrF7EXNeweB/DHWBqmVUnaT E3oK21P8WBqtbhC6/wwABi12eeG9Uj/Lm5yhWjKm4fuRTuqJltnZUXyP3 U=; X-Files: signature.asc : 833 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0C3AgBhcelW/49dJa1egnpMgUEGuXoOg?= =?us-ascii?q?W+GDQKBPTgUAQEBAQEBAWQnhDgJAQEBAwF5BQsCAQgDARQuIRElAgQOBQ6IBAM?= =?us-ascii?q?KCLp3DYRMAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBDQiIEYJRgj6FKYEPBZdRAYMbg?= =?us-ascii?q?WaHCoF1gWWHb4UxhyyHUgEeAUODZWqJZX4BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.24,345,1454976000"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="83431492" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 16 Mar 2016 14:46:18 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-013.cisco.com (xch-aln-013.cisco.com [173.36.7.23]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u2GEkIOj002536 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Mar 2016 14:46:18 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-013.cisco.com (173.37.102.23) by XCH-ALN-013.cisco.com (173.36.7.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Wed, 16 Mar 2016 09:46:17 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-013.cisco.com ([173.37.102.23]) by XCH-RCD-013.cisco.com ([173.37.102.23]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Wed, 16 Mar 2016 09:46:17 -0500 From: "Fred Baker (fred)" To: Lee Howard Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic Thread-Index: AQHRf5KYqQBlyyw0UkGG8FLf6g/Nhg== Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 14:46:17 +0000 Message-ID: <8775534F-6B57-445D-8B92-D2EE0CE5FF65@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.19.64.117] Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9E7F81AC-C7E5-4E42-97A1-AD81279D6F4E"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 14:46:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9E7F81AC-C7E5-4E42-97A1-AD81279D6F4E Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2075995C-62D1-4831-B4F0-7888EAF178BE" --Apple-Mail=_2075995C-62D1-4831-B4F0-7888EAF178BE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Mar 16, 2016, at 6:36 AM, Scott Morizot wrote: >=20 > I've read the draft and your blog post and it does seem like the = appropriate and logical next step. ++ --Apple-Mail=_2075995C-62D1-4831-B4F0-7888EAF178BE Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
On Mar 16, 2016, at 6:36 AM, Scott Morizot <tmorizot@gmail.com> wrote:

I've read the draft and your blog post and it does seem like the appropriate and logical next step.

++
--Apple-Mail=_2075995C-62D1-4831-B4F0-7888EAF178BE-- --Apple-Mail=_9E7F81AC-C7E5-4E42-97A1-AD81279D6F4E Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iQIVAwUBVulxuEayAOS/EQ8MAQI56xAAgr9lwaTKstzr45N9PpxbVxbS8DYf8b3o /L8aGg8SjbrXgExuCNIT6aKjRo9DMFGo1SLfOa74fpGpC68At4paqWybk5C3lRW4 Xfo5kcMr0J7x+c2C1ilWl0fErG+O0YvZ/VYcydYOhutIexAkZXVwcNeTJ9nudmcv 8kWygesRuhAj3zygT0nZR+u7sui/C41kZaLgdvJ8VKhULlWED3PvWaF5r9kyGvUg 8SC/5gCqxHppWQVGd5xQXUVkk5EQdwo1OGsS1CcixNNZDhQO8K+CJNhk8BCqgwl8 ooplacCANlKI2cMOslrjc4/BTRApb55baC7mwJ26pUp0P/k+0n8a5NvR5jgl713f 4dwX05RHAVaK/jEJAFflBF98TmtuqXBpanHAPWqRx3lZoStYBXe8UtJ1vEeYGViA 0vd5MoVEfM8p/xjSmXyv8KkgSdd2CbbzGyb6J+d5ZdL0fQyuPJi8g1ULrPaPZ6sb p0fLN3tlnxkqMNiK/TadixZ9rPz1HJ8GVz9YRM1cYeNUa/hmiuq/dlf5UfMF+Bud WiafMQHPuhIO/j1lPJ0FQ4jV1lI3uKDTpUqyzI9b+ii0jjWfVrfenySuUKShosvJ xEna71r6/cFiOLAJNEfe+sHCCYARnYgYdkxp3b5LRBtWGClK2Me9IdC+A/t+tvPl r/2F0ETQxW8= =QZ+G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_9E7F81AC-C7E5-4E42-97A1-AD81279D6F4E-- From nobody Wed Mar 16 08:37:00 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3024D12D9AD for ; 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b=Wa/ExaB32swhSPDW0Q/9iJfgqQ/AvDLw0MfeNooNckPL5o1VPb4oQ7SDt+9msl1gm kv5AgL5T6iY3XV0yY1Axo/YMeTobZmYhskzB6zaD7TiFWIg/wAwQB/aXk5QEveO/cu bEHE5I/NkBavy32euxQf9Bx6KKckQ+2N4fsaYUXE= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv Received: from zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id MGgaD7KCUwK3; Wed, 16 Mar 2016 20:26:34 +0200 (EET) Received: from [IPv6:2a02:2149:8745:de00:cd47:d697:91f4:74f] (ip-2a02-2149-8745-de00-cd47-d697-91f4-074f.ip6.forthnet.gr [IPv6:2a02:2149:8745:de00:cd47:d697:91f4:74f]) by zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 56E081202A3; Wed, 16 Mar 2016 20:26:34 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <56E9A555.7000808@forthnet.gr> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 20:26:29 +0200 From: Tassos Chatzithomaoglou User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:35.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/35.0 SeaMonkey/2.32.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sunset4@ietf.org" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2016 18:26:42 -0000 I support the idea of this draft, but... > The IETF does not update Historic RFCs. Therefore, the IETF will no= > longer work on IPv4 technologies, including transition technologies.= =2E..i would like to see included some clarifications about the transitio= n technologies. It seems risky to "abandon" softwires/behave work without having good exp= osure on operators. It's like we assume that everything transition-related will either work f= ine or won't be needed. Also i would to have more information about the draft's effect on DHCP an= d any new options may come out. -- Tassos Lee Howard wrote on 15/3/16 09:09: > As noted below, I=E2=80=99ve posted a draft. I thought I=E2=80=99d star= t a thread for discussing it. > > PLEASE Please please read the draft before commenting. It=E2=80=99s ver= y short, less than 500 words, and I anticipate a lot of people having str= ong feelings about it. I would really rather not waste time arguing about= things it doesn=E2=80=99t say. > > To that end, I=E2=80=99ve also written a blog post, explaining in a lev= el of detail I thought inappropriate for the draft: http://www.wleecoyote= =2Ecom/blog/ipv4-historic.htm > > Thank you, > > Lee > > From: sunset4 > on behalf of Wesley George > > Date: Monday, March 14, 2016 at 6:28 PM > To: "sunset4@ietf.org " > > Subject: [sunset4] Agenda items? > > As you can see, we have a meeting scheduled for BA.=20 > As of right now, we have a single agenda item: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-howard-sunset4-v4historic-00 > > While I fully expect that this item can expand to fill all availabl= e time, if there are other things that the WG wishes to discuss, please r= espond ASAP to request agenda time.=20 > > Thanks, > > =20 > > Wes > > =20 > > Anything below this line has been added by my company=E2=80=99s mai= l server, I have no control over it. > > ----------- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------------------------------------------- > > This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cabl= e proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject = to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended sole= ly for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If y= ou are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified= that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relati= on to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibit= ed and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please= notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and an= y copy of this E-mail and any printout. > _______________________________________________ sunset4 mailing lis= t sunset4@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman= /listinfo/sunset4=20 > > > > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 From nobody Thu Mar 17 05:33:45 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6301512D530 for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 05:33:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.236 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.236 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R_-SoKiqTShf for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 05:33:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.bemta5.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta5.messagelabs.com [195.245.231.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B91E12D8F1 for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 05:25:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [85.158.139.3] by server-14.bemta-5.messagelabs.com id 41/6D-16885-C22AAE65; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:25:16 +0000 X-Env-Sender: nick.heatley@ee.co.uk X-Msg-Ref: server-16.tower-90.messagelabs.com!1458217515!30210205!1 X-Originating-IP: [149.254.241.76] X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 8.11; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 17842 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2016 12:25:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtpml01.ee.co.uk) (149.254.241.76) by server-16.tower-90.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 17 Mar 2016 12:25:15 -0000 Received: from EEUKWV0941.EEAD.EEINT.CO.UK (Not Verified[10.246.209.218]) by smtpml01.ee.co.uk with MailMarshal (v7, 2, 3, 6978) id ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:25:02 +0000 Received: from UK31S005EXS02.EEAD.EEINT.CO.UK (Not Verified[10.246.208.27]) by EEUKWV0941.EEAD.EEINT.CO.UK with Trustwave SEG (v7, 3, 6, 7949) id ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:25:14 +0000 Received: from UK30S005EXS06.EEAD.EEINT.CO.UK ([fe80::314c:b96c:4a9a:8a79]) by UK31S005EXS02.EEAD.EEINT.CO.UK ([2002:62c:2a56::62c:2a56]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:25:14 +0000 From: "Heatley, Nick" To: Ca By , "George, Wes" Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic Thread-Index: AQHRftply0nzV3Xs3EGc602VeMP0kJ9a20kAgAAf54CAAM60oA== Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:25:14 +0000 Message-ID: <6536E263028723489CCD5B6821D4B213170D9028@UK30S005EXS06.EEAD.EEINT.CO.UK> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.246.208.5] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_6536E263028723489CCD5B6821D4B213170D9028UK30S005EXS06EE_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: Philip Homburg , "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 12:33:44 -0000 --_000_6536E263028723489CCD5B6821D4B213170D9028UK30S005EXS06EE_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 KzEsIEkgYWdyZWUuDQpPdGhlciBTRE9zIHdvdWxkIGFwcHJlY2lhdGUgdGhlIGNsZWFyIGRpcmVj dGlvbiB0aGUgSUVURiB3b3VsZCBiZSBzZXR0aW5nIGJ5IHRoaXMuDQpOaWNrDQoNCkZyb206IHN1 bnNldDQgW21haWx0bzpzdW5zZXQ0LWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBDYSBC 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ESMTP id zkMz1AfmxjaA for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 08:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl4mhob21.registeredsite.com (unknown [209.17.115.115]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F36D12D9A7 for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 08:35:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailpod.hostingplatform.com ([10.30.71.203]) by atl4mhob21.registeredsite.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u2HFZoEj017968 for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:35:50 -0400 Received: (qmail 9471 invoked by uid 0); 17 Mar 2016 15:35:50 -0000 X-TCPREMOTEIP: 204.235.115.163 X-Authenticated-UID: lee@asgard.org Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.71.36.43?) (lee@asgard.org@204.235.115.163) by 0 with ESMTPA; 17 Mar 2016 15:35:49 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.1.160122 Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:35:47 +0100 From: Lee Howard To: Tassos Chatzithomaoglou , "sunset4@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic References: <56E9A555.7000808@forthnet.gr> In-Reply-To: <56E9A555.7000808@forthnet.gr> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 15:35:54 -0000 On 3/16/16, 7:26 PM, "sunset4 on behalf of Tassos Chatzithomaoglou" wrote: >I support the idea of this draft, but... >> The IETF does not update Historic RFCs. Therefore, the IETF will no >> longer work on IPv4 technologies, including transition technologies. >...i would like to see included some clarifications about the transition >technologies. >It seems risky to "abandon" softwires/behave work without having good >exposure on operators. >It's like we assume that everything transition-related will either work >fine or won't be needed. This is one of the most common comments I=B9ve gotten so far. I do think there=B9s operational experience with all of the major transition technologies, but they=B9re all still fairly new. What would folks think of modifying the statement from: the IETF will no longer work on IPv4 technologies, including transition technologies. To: the IETF will no longer develop new IPv4 technologies, including IPv4-IPv6 transition technologies.=20 I=B9d like to get across the idea that new development will be in IPv6, not IPv4. The IPv4 spec itself won=B9t be updated at all (once it=B9s Historic), but transition technologies could be revised for operational and security reasons. Also, I feel pretty strongly (but will listen to consensus) that it=B9s too late to develop any new transition (or life-extension) technologies.=20 > >Also i would to have more information about the draft's effect on DHCP >and any new options may come out. What would you like it to say? Can we stop it with new DHCP (v4) options, and just put them in IPv6? Do we need to list all IPv4-specific protocols and technologies and specify whether they can be revised? > >-- >Tassos Thanks, Lee From nobody Thu Mar 17 10:09:43 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F3412DC6F for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:09:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.702 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.702 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=forthnet.gr Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aN7n5SZp_GFs for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zm-out-01.forthnet.gr (zm-out-01.forthnet.gr [194.219.0.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACC6912DC7D for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv (zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv [10.24.31.15]) by zm-out-01.forthnet.gr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E3D412245C for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 19:08:22 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost (localhost6.localdomain6 [IPv6:::1]) by zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25629120214; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 19:08:22 +0200 (EET) X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent Authentication-Results: zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=forthnet.gr Received: from zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 5VZb5a6XElHg; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 19:08:21 +0200 (EET) Received: from localhost (localhost6.localdomain6 [IPv6:::1]) by zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv (Postfix) with ESMTP id A228C12022B; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 19:08:21 +0200 (EET) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv A228C12022B DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=forthnet.gr; s=zm; t=1458234501; bh=5IX4ovqMka9Hl0JB+/QLbsPM+tb5zPJz6GbqNOikTv8=; h=Message-ID:Date:From:MIME-Version:To:Subject:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Pbf7Nc1as9oyMNKVv5MNna3q2ZWuXzYuCQe79SEBEYgUCnQcj9MOHmV62yELOw3CJ lsf0pEQM1OHmYcXTkht1HmLo6xRRck2JaXCALSFxu6B4d9lKbZYfAILsTV+Ifv6Lm1 Z8j7bHZI6G09M2bsMa4iP3LjGdSNQJg32ojRfZ+E= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv Received: from zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 4HandjkxFxQB; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 19:08:21 +0200 (EET) Received: from [IPv6:2a02:2149:8745:de00:8e7:9b3c:e9e5:bff6] (ip-2a02-2149-8745-de00-08e7-9b3c-e9e5-bff6.ip6.forthnet.gr [IPv6:2a02:2149:8745:de00:8e7:9b3c:e9e5:bff6]) by zm-in-01.cloud.forthnet.prv (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 6D126120214; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 19:08:21 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <56EAE47F.6080102@forthnet.gr> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 19:08:15 +0200 From: Tassos Chatzithomaoglou User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:35.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/35.0 SeaMonkey/2.32.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sunset4@ietf.org" References: <56E9A555.7000808@forthnet.gr> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 17:09:43 -0000 >> Also i would to have more information about the draft's effect on DHCP >> and any new options may come out. > What would you like it to say? > Can we stop it with new DHCP (v4) options, and just put them in IPv6? Do > we need to list all IPv4-specific protocols and technologies and specify > whether they can be revised? > > > I consider DHCPv4 one of the most-used protocols that will stay for a long time with us, because it's not directly affected by what happens on the global internet. I can even imagine whole "islands" staying on IPv4 and using it for many decades. Assuming IPv4 is declared as historic, does this mean that no other options are expected to be defined for DHCP? Do we assume that any new applications won't need those? Maybe a note should be added about the exclusion of creating new options for such cases. So the actual protocol standard won't see any development, but protocol "extensions" through standard-defined options may happen. -- Tassos From nobody Thu Mar 17 10:36:49 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92B4912DC79 for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:36:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tqbTI9nseNl0 for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:36:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jazz.viagenie.ca (jazz.viagenie.ca [IPv6:2620:0:230:8000::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC91C12DD0C for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [206.123.31.198] (h198.viagenie.ca [206.123.31.198]) by jazz.viagenie.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 036B347728; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:28:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc Blanchet" To: "Lee Howard" Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:28:24 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <56E9A555.7000808@forthnet.gr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_29648457-B8D4-413A-9AC5-8D4F710AB7D1_=" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.4r5234) Archived-At: Cc: "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 17:36:47 -0000 --=_MailMate_29648457-B8D4-413A-9AC5-8D4F710AB7D1_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; markup=markdown Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 17 Mar 2016, at 6:35, Lee Howard wrote: > On 3/16/16, 7:26 PM, "sunset4 on behalf of Tassos Chatzithomaoglou" > wrote: > >> I support the idea of this draft, but... >>> The IETF does not update Historic RFCs. Therefore, the IETF will >>> no >>> longer work on IPv4 technologies, including transition >>> technologies. >> ...i would like to see included some clarifications about the >> transition >> technologies. >> It seems risky to "abandon" softwires/behave work without having good >> exposure on operators. >> It's like we assume that everything transition-related will either >> work >> fine or won't be needed. > > This is one of the most common comments I¹ve gotten so far. I do > think > there¹s operational experience with all of the major transition > technologies, but they¹re all still fairly new. > > What would folks think of modifying the statement from: > the IETF will no > longer work on IPv4 technologies, including transition > technologies. > > > To: > the IETF will no > longer develop new IPv4 technologies, including IPv4-IPv6 > transition > technologies. I like it better. I would suggest « including IPv4 to IPv6 transition technologies. (to avoid excluding NAT64 and related that are needed for the next decade… > > I¹d like to get across the idea that new development will be in IPv6, > not > IPv4. The IPv4 spec itself won¹t be updated at all (once it¹s > Historic), > but transition technologies could be revised for operational and > security > reasons. Also, I feel pretty strongly (but will listen to consensus) > that > it¹s too late to develop any new transition (or life-extension) > technologies. I agree, except for v6 to v4 such as NAT64. Marc. > >> >> Also i would to have more information about the draft's effect on >> DHCP >> and any new options may come out. > > What would you like it to say? > Can we stop it with new DHCP (v4) options, and just put them in IPv6? > Do > we need to list all IPv4-specific protocols and technologies and > specify > whether they can be revised? > > > >> >> -- >> Tassos > > Thanks, > > Lee > > > > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 --=_MailMate_29648457-B8D4-413A-9AC5-8D4F710AB7D1_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 17 Mar 2016, at 6:35, Lee Howard wrote:

On 3/16/16, 7:26 PM, "sunset4 on behalf of Tassos Chatzit= homaoglou"
<sunset4-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of achatz@forthnet.gr> wrote:

I support the idea of this draft, but...

The IETF does not update Historic RFCs. Therefore, the I= ETF will no
longer work on IPv4 technologies, including transition technologies.

...i would like to see included some clarifications about= the transition
technologies.
It seems risky to "abandon" softwires/behave work without having good
= exposure on operators.
It's like we assume that everything transition-related will either work fine or won't be needed.

This is one of the most common comments I=C2=B9ve gotten = so far. I do think
there=C2=B9s operational experience with all of the major transition
technologies, but they=C2=B9re all still fairly new.

What would folks think of modifying the statement from: the IETF will no
longer work on IPv4 technologies, including transition technologies.

To:
the IETF will no
longer develop new IPv4 technologies, including IPv4-IPv6 transition technologies.

I like it better. I would suggest =C2=AB=C2=A0including I= Pv4 to IPv6 transition technologies. (to avoid excluding NAT64 and relat= ed that are needed for the next decade=E2=80=A6

I=C2=B9d like to get across the idea that new development= will be in IPv6, not
IPv4. The IPv4 spec itself won=C2=B9t be updated at all (once it=C2=B9s H= istoric),
but transition technologies could be revised for operational and security=
reasons. Also, I feel pretty strongly (but will listen to consensus) that=
it=C2=B9s too late to develop any new transition (or life-extension)
technologies.

I agree, except for v6 to v4 such as NAT64.

Marc.

Also i would to have more information about the draft's e= ffect on DHCP
and any new options may come out.

What would you like it to say?
Can we stop it with new DHCP (v4) options, and just put them in IPv6? Do<= br> we need to list all IPv4-specific protocols and technologies and specify<= br> whether they can be revised?

--
Tassos

Thanks,

Lee

sunset4 mailing list
sunset4@ietf.org
https://www.iet= f.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4

--=_MailMate_29648457-B8D4-413A-9AC5-8D4F710AB7D1_=-- From nobody Thu Mar 17 10:45:31 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DB9812D9F0 for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:45:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fawo6BtZoIe3 for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x235.google.com (mail-qg0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8E9812DC8A for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:39:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qg0-x235.google.com with SMTP id w104so78200206qge.1 for ; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:39:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+qXRPOsWCxbCWt5igSOmu091o00vyqJJwajMr2lCCsI=; b=bhb7+2t5FRyh8aPM4E4SaW39oEGgliWJ/ziCPNdYiZGPJth+5EVFGNxwM6XDL7Tu8X XV5Eia/5+kIrlGaFcyaXNgFsFOIReVxwQIbyAFTJec3xHsfNMa/SJvWGWS4ekw7Npq1P DHaAMIu+VBkxZnF5pthBeDS6FNGNg6IRxCGm2GR+f6XG3l+jL9MWq5pUIRFy7EOn96Lg HM3kq6b1XNVuNOwHYsJZELmC60oBnHDu4P8wmCr5YUDZqxfOpToMdrEDOnE94xAPeZl3 9bbAuJkKWdkMW+74N1H8kX+2I7eTwyApUGc/idr0Q4uDe28WOVpSqZJSgaS4HJgTHURm pyRg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+qXRPOsWCxbCWt5igSOmu091o00vyqJJwajMr2lCCsI=; b=ctnRzW8WSuUS8FyRgdDlt/nnDxXd7alpmXg6P+w2npA9lzA4DdHmTeDaLU+7KxHlHs 2tFoaTFc6j+Q/sMLjgNh3GC+CVJuSKgyBgR3YMO+RwIw5yqW5DoCe3Dq1d8A+oMlFta4 vOv7pvG7FtOjCgZmzPQiCT3JBh0si4ybUbwI7WNWiDrs8lj8WmAtRjUptk9lsEmnJDFm 71uPmhuQfBF1U7WbxLbVWzcqL2DgB+kDJ7CYXKAYLyxxaNi0vbAH0V2fmK17MMlouHOI rIdNSiri11ZklLIsnkx6XSwzfltXAbd+hhPMCdWMS6SA6gChog60IR6jFRyMecY6XHvs QE3g== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJtOnN+L75hhUT1IysFb1Z7KyFflNlAT9jnhFokikNatb3OftpKLJar8nouSlBV6g== X-Received: by 10.140.89.103 with SMTP id u94mr15968755qgd.3.1458236350064; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:39:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:470:5:516:5592:4e0e:85d4:6899? ([2001:470:5:516:5592:4e0e:85d4:6899]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s188sm4185194qhc.35.2016.03.17.10.39.09 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 17 Mar 2016 10:39:09 -0700 (PDT) To: sunset4@ietf.org References: <20160316153332.28815.63723.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008D04FFA@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> From: Alejandro Acosta Message-ID: <56EAEBB5.3060708@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:09:01 -0430 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008D04FFA@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [sunset4] TR: New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-ip-version-5-8-9-historic-00.txt X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 17:45:29 -0000 Makes sense to me El 3/16/2016 a las 11:05 AM, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com escribió: > Dear all, > > Since Lee started with 4, what about 5, 8 and 9. > > Comments are more than welcome. > > Cheers, > Med > >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] >> Envoyé : mercredi 16 mars 2016 16:34 >> À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN >> Objet : New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-ip-version-5-8-9- >> historic-00.txt >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-boucadair-ip-version-5-8-9-historic-00.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to the >> IETF repository. >> >> Name: draft-boucadair-ip-version-5-8-9-historic >> Revision: 00 >> Title: Reclassification of ST (IP version 5), PIP (IP version 8) and >> TUBA (IP version 9) to Historic >> Document date: 2016-03-16 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 5 >> URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair-ip- >> version-5-8-9-historic-00.txt >> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-ip- >> version-5-8-9-historic/ >> Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-ip-version-5- >> 8-9-historic-00 >> >> >> Abstract: >> This document reclassifies ST (IP version 5), PIP (IP version 8) and >> TUBA (IP version 9) to Historic status. >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> The IETF Secretariat > _______________________________________________ > sunset4 mailing list > sunset4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4 From nobody Thu Mar 17 11:11:00 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC3412D9C5 for ; 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Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.242.70 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.242.70 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Mar 2016 11:10:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <56EAE47F.6080102@forthnet.gr> References: <56E9A555.7000808@forthnet.gr> <56EAE47F.6080102@forthnet.gr> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 13:10:38 -0500 Message-ID: From: Scott Morizot To: Tassos Chatzithomaoglou Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114412843894f3052e428c02 Archived-At: Cc: sunset4@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 18:10:58 -0000 --001a114412843894f3052e428c02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Mar 17, 2016 12:09, "Tassos Chatzithomaoglou" wrote: > I consider DHCPv4 one of the most-used protocols that will stay for a long time with us, because it's not directly affected by what happens on the global internet. And, as with IPv4 itself, declaring v4 historic does nothing to prevent people from using dhcpv4 as long as they require it. It simply means the IETF will no longer work on the protocol. DHCP already includes a way to define custom options if users of the historic IPv4 protocol decide to define and use a new option. I'm not sure I see a need for the standards body to spend time on it. No strong objection either if it's something enough people want to spend time and energy doing, but since DHCPv4 is tightly coupled with IPv4, it seems reasonable that it be considered historic as well. > I can even imagine whole "islands" staying on IPv4 and using it for many decades. >From an enterprise perspective that seems incredibly foolish. It's actually at the edge that v4 is required for the long haul. Having begun the transition, the sooner most of our enterprise is on one protocol again the better. > Assuming IPv4 is declared as historic, does this mean that no other options are expected to be defined for DHCP? For DHCPv4, that seems reasonable. New work should focus on DHCPv6, which is a pretty different protocol. But again, I don't feel particularly strongly either way. > Do we assume that any new applications won't need those? Part of making v4 historic means that the IETF is only committed to ensuring new protocols work with v6, at least if I've understood the definition correctly. New stuff might still work over v4, but it becomes a case of caveat emptor. > Maybe a note should be added about the exclusion of creating new options for such cases. So the actual protocol standard won't see any development, but protocol "extensions" through standard-defined options may happen. It is an interesting question how a protocol that's as tightly coupled with IPv4 as DHCPv4 is impacted by making IPv4 historic. I don't recall seeing anything that directly addressed that question. Scott --001a114412843894f3052e428c02 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mar 17, 2016 12:09, "Tassos Chatzithomaoglou" <achatz@forthnet.gr> wrote:
> I consider DHCPv4 one of the most-used protocols that will stay for a = long time with us, because it's not directly affected by what happens o= n the global internet.

And, as with IPv4 itself, declaring v4 historic does nothing= to prevent people from using dhcpv4 as long as they require it. It simply = means the IETF will no longer work on the protocol. DHCP already includes a= way to define custom options if users of the historic IPv4 protocol decide= to define and use a new option. I'm not sure I see a need for the stan= dards body to spend time on it.

No strong objection either if it's something enough peop= le want to spend time and energy doing, but since DHCPv4 is tightly coupled= with IPv4, it seems reasonable that it be considered historic as well.

> I can even imagine whole "islands" staying on= IPv4 and using it for many decades.

From an enterprise perspective that seems incredibly foolish= . It's actually at the edge that v4 is required for the long haul. Havi= ng begun the transition, the sooner most of our enterprise is on one protoc= ol again the better.

> Assuming IPv4 is declared as historic, does this mean t= hat no other options are expected to be defined for DHCP?

For DHCPv4, that seems reasonable. New work should focus on = DHCPv6, which is a pretty different protocol. But again, I don't feel p= articularly strongly either way.

> Do we assume that any new applications won't need t= hose?

Part of making v4 historic means that the IETF is only commi= tted to ensuring new protocols work with v6, at least if I've understoo= d the definition correctly. New stuff might still work over v4, but it beco= mes a case of caveat emptor.

> Maybe a note should be added about the exclusion of cre= ating new options for such cases. So the actual protocol standard won't= see any development, but protocol "extensions" through standard-= defined options may happen.

It is an interesting question how a protocol that's as t= ightly coupled with IPv4 as DHCPv4 is impacted by making IPv4 historic. I d= on't recall seeing anything that directly addressed that question.

Scott

--001a114412843894f3052e428c02-- From nobody Sun Mar 20 00:01:48 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2336912D709 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 00:01:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y6yQM3x0gZFU for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 00:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pv36p08im-ztdg07111401.me.com (pv36p08im-ztdg07111401.me.com [17.142.193.35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4032412D705 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 00:01:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pv36p08im-ztdg07111501.me.com ([17.142.193.37]) by pv36p08im-ztdg07111401.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.36.0 64bit (built Sep 8 2015)) with ESMTP id <0O4B00BMWSUBZO00@pv36p08im-ztdg07111401.me.com> for sunset4@ietf.org; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 07:01:29 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:,, definitions=2016-03-20_03:,, signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=1 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1510270003 definitions=main-1603200111 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_Fc6CkxHrkUhGMbrbIljMlQ)" Received: from localhost ([17.142.193.57]) by pv36p08im-ztdg07111501.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Dec 4 2014)) with ESMTP id <0O4B0093XSUGQG40@pv36p08im-ztdg07111501.mac.com>; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 07:01:28 +0000 (GMT) To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com From: Greg Skinner Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 07:01:28 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: iCloud MailClient16BHotfix1 MailServer16B51.24857-16A-711-67daed14afd0 X-Originating-IP: [198.144.201.12] Message-id: <36d7134b-2c8d-4981-969d-a63e13dba810@me.com> Archived-At: Cc: sunset4@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sunset4] =?utf-8?q?TR=3A_New_Version_Notification_for_draft-bouc?= =?utf-8?q?adair-ip-version-5-8-9-historic-00=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 07:01:47 -0000 --Boundary_(ID_Fc6CkxHrkUhGMbrbIljMlQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Mohamed,=0A=0AWas it your intention to have this draft published as an RFC= , or to let the status change stand? =C2=A0The reason I'm asking is becaus= e reclassification to Historic seems to be handled differently depending u= pon circumstances. =C2=A0Also, it might be a good idea to reclassify some = of the other RFCs mentioned in this draft to Historic, such as 1287, 1380,= and 1752. =C2=A01550 (referenced in 1752) could also be a candidate.=0A=0A= Greg=0A=0AOn Mar 16, 2016, at 08:37 AM, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote= :=0A=0ADear all,=0A=0ASince Lee started with 4, what about 5, 8 and 9.=0A=0A= Comments are more than welcome.=0A=0ACheers,=0AMed=0A=0A-----Message d'ori= gine-----=0ADe=C2=A0: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@iet= f.org]=0AEnvoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: mercredi 16 mars 2016 16:34=0A=C3=80=C2=A0: BO= UCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN=0AObjet=C2=A0: New Ve= rsion Notification for draft-boucadair-ip-version-5-8-9-=0Ahistoric-00.txt= =0A=0A=0AA new version of I-D, draft-boucadair-ip-version-5-8-9-historic-0= 0.txt=0Ahas been successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to= the=0AIETF repository.=0A=0AName: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-boucadair-ip-= version-5-8-9-historic=0ARevision: =C2=A0 =C2=A000=0ATitle: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Reclassification of ST (IP versio= n 5), PIP (IP version 8) and=0ATUBA (IP version 9) to Historic=0ADocument = date: =C2=A0 =C2=A02016-03-16=0AGroup: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Individual Submission=0APages: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A05=0A= URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucadair-ip-=0Aversion-5-= 8-9-historic-00.txt=0AStatus: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bouca= dair-ip-=0Aversion-5-8-9-historic/=0AHtmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html= /draft-boucadair-ip-version-5-=0A8-9-historic-00=0A=0A=0AAbstract:=0AThis = document reclassifies ST (IP version 5), PIP (IP version 8) and=0ATUBA (IP= version 9) to Historic status.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0APlease note that it may take= a couple of minutes from the time of=0Asubmission=0Auntil the htmlized ve= rsion and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.=0A=0AThe IETF Secretariat=0A= =0A_______________________________________________=0Asunset4 mailing list=0A= sunset4@ietf.org=0Ahttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4=0A= --Boundary_(ID_Fc6CkxHrkUhGMbrbIljMlQ) Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="Boundary_(ID_uwdq92TeeI9M+2q8zHDnJQ)"; type="text/html" --Boundary_(ID_uwdq92TeeI9M+2q8zHDnJQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Mohamed,

Was it your in= tention to have this draft published as an RFC, or to let the status change stand?  The reason I'm as= king is because reclassification to Historic seems to be handled different= ly depending upon circumstances.  Also, it might be a good idea to re= classify some of the other RFCs mentioned in this draft to Historic, such = as 1287, 1380, and 1752.  1550 (referenced in 1752) could also be a c= andidate.

Greg
On Mar 16, 2016, at 08:37 AM, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:

=
Dear all,

Since Lee st= arted with 4, what about 5, 8 and 9.

Comments are more than welcome= .

Cheers,
Med

-----Message d'origine-----
De : internet-draf= ts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
Envoy=C3=A9 : mercredi 16 m= ars 2016 16:34
=C3=80 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed IMT/OLN; JACQUENET Christian IMT/OL= N
Objet&= nbsp;: New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-ip-version-5-8-9-
historic-00.= txt

=

A new vers= ion of I-D, draft-boucadair-ip-version-5-8-9-historic-00.txt
<= blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"quoted-plain-text">has been successfully= submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:      = draft-boucadair-ip-version-5-8-9-historic
Revision:    00
Title:     &= nbsp;          Reclassification of ST (IP version= 5), PIP (IP version 8) and
TUBA (IP version 9) to Historic
Document date:    20= 16-03-16
Group:                Individual = Submission
Pages:      5
URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boucad= air-ip-
version-5-8-9-historic-00.txt
Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-boucadair-ip-=
ver= sion-5-8-9-historic/
Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-ip-versio= n-5-
8-9-historic-00


Abstract:
This document reclassifies ST (IP version 5), PIP (IP version 8) and<= /blockquote>
TUBA (IP= version 9) to Historic status.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time = of
submi= ssion
un= til the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretari= at

_______________________________________________
suns= et4 mailing list
sunset4@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4
= --Boundary_(ID_uwdq92TeeI9M+2q8zHDnJQ)-- --Boundary_(ID_Fc6CkxHrkUhGMbrbIljMlQ)-- From nobody Sun Mar 20 23:40:17 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDC0112D672 for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 23:40:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.618 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.618 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sIHSeY36kkdn for ; Sun, 20 Mar 2016 23:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias92.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.92]) 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Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008D1951E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <36d7134b-2c8d-4981-969d-a63e13dba810@me.com> In-Reply-To: <36d7134b-2c8d-4981-969d-a63e13dba810@me.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008D1951EOPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.2.1.2478543, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2016.3.21.55716 Archived-At: Cc: "sunset4@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [sunset4] TR: New Version Notification for draft-boucadair-ip-version-5-8-9-historic-00.txt X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 06:40:16 -0000 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Mar 2016 18:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pv36p08im-ztdg07101401.me.com (pv36p08im-ztdg07101401.me.com [17.142.193.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A49612D576 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 18:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pv36p08im-ztdg07101501.me.com ([17.142.193.36]) by pv36p08im-ztdg07101401.me.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.36.0 64bit (built Sep 8 2015)) with ESMTP id <0O4F002PK1W74V50@pv36p08im-ztdg07101401.me.com> for sunset4@ietf.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 01:09:43 +0000 (GMT) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:,, definitions=2016-03-22_01:,, signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1510270003 definitions=main-1603220016 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_WNJeLT/uvbItww401uwqrA)" Received: from localhost ([17.142.193.57]) by pv36p08im-ztdg07101501.mac.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.35.0 64bit (built Dec 4 2014)) with ESMTP id <0O4F007E91W7XF80@pv36p08im-ztdg07101501.mac.com>; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 01:09:43 +0000 (GMT) To: Lee Howard From: Greg Skinner Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 01:09:41 +0000 (GMT) X-Mailer: iCloud MailClient16BHotfix1 MailServer16B51.24857-16A-711-67daed14afd0 X-Originating-IP: [198.144.201.12] Message-id: Archived-At: Cc: sunset4@ietf.org Subject: Re: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic X-BeenThere: sunset4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: sunset4 working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 01:09:47 -0000 --Boundary_(ID_WNJeLT/uvbItww401uwqrA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable It occurred to me that there might be some people who have an active inter= est in updating the IPv4=0Astandard in the not too distant future, such as= those who want to use 240.0.0.0/4.=0A=0AHas an Historic RFC ever been put= back on the standards track? =C2=A0Is there even a process for doing that= ? =C2=A0(I couldn't find one offhand.) =C2=A0If the IPv4 standard was recl= assified as Historic, and there was some desire from an active group to up= date it, that could become a big mess.=0A=0AGreg=0A=0AOn Mar 15, 2016, at = 05:09 AM, Lee Howard wrote:=0A=0AAs noted below, I=E2=80=99= ve posted a draft. I thought I=E2=80=99d start a thread for discussing it.= =0A=0APLEASE Please please read the draft before commenting. It=E2=80=99s = very short, less than 500 words, and I anticipate a lot of people having s= trong feelings about it. I would really rather not waste time arguing abou= t things it doesn=E2=80=99t say.=0A=0ATo that end, I=E2=80=99ve also writt= en a blog post, explaining in a level of detail I thought inappropriate fo= r the draft:=C2=A0http://www.wleecoyote.com/blog/ipv4-historic.htm=0A=0ATh= ank you,=0A=0ALee=0A=0AFrom: sunset4 on behalf = of Wesley George =0ADate: Monday, March 14, 201= 6 at 6:28 PM=0ATo: "sunset4@ietf.org" =0ASubject: [sunse= t4] Agenda items?=0A=0AAs you can see, we have a meeting scheduled for BA.= =C2=A0=0AAs of right now, we have a single agenda item:=0A=0Ahttps://tools= .ietf.org/html/draft-howard-sunset4-v4historic-00=0A=0AWhile I fully expec= t that this item can expand to fill all available time, if there are other= things that the WG wishes to discuss, please respond ASAP to request agen= da time.=C2=A0=0A=0AThanks,=0A=C2=A0=0AWes=0A=C2=A0=0AAnything below this = line has been added by my company=E2=80=99s mail server, I have no control= over it.=0A-----------=0A=0A=0AThis E-mail and any of its attachments may= contain Time Warner Cable proprietary information, which is privileged, c= onfidential, or subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This = E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which= it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, yo= u are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or ac= tion taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail i= s strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mai= l in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete th= e original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout.=0A_______________= ________________________________ sunset4 mailing list sunset4@ietf.org htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4= --Boundary_(ID_WNJeLT/uvbItww401uwqrA) Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="Boundary_(ID_tUCAxYXSVJwxhmrEpV0SyA)"; type="text/html" --Boundary_(ID_tUCAxYXSVJwxhmrEpV0SyA) Content-type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
It occurred to me that there might be some people who have an active = interest in updating the IPv4
standard in the not too distant fu= ture, such as those who want to use 240.0.0.0/4.

Has an Historic RFC ever been put back on the standar= ds track?  Is there even a process for doing that?  (I couldn't = find one offhand.)  If the IPv4 standard was reclassified as Historic= , and there was some desire from an active group to update it, that could = become a big mess.

Greg

On Mar 15, 2016, at 05:09 AM, Lee Howard <Lee@asgard.org> = wrote:

= As noted below, I=E2=80=99ve posted a draft. I thought I=E2=80=99d start a= thread for discussing it.

PLEASE Please please r= ead the draft before commenting. It=E2=80=99s very short, less than 500 wo= rds, and I anticipate a lot of people having strong feelings about it. I w= ould really rather not waste time arguing about things it doesn=E2=80=99t = say.

To that end, I=E2=80=99ve also written a blo= g post, explaining in a level of detail I thought inappropriate for the dr= aft: http://www= .wleecoyote.com/blog/ipv4-historic.htm

Thank = you,

Lee

From: sunset4 <sun= set4-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Wesley George <Wesley.George@twcable.com>
Date: Monday, March 1= 4, 2016 at 6:28 PM
To: "sunset4@ietf.org" <sunset= 4@ietf.org>
Subject: [sunset4] Agenda items?

As you can see, we have a meeting scheduled for BA. 
=
As of right now, we have a single agenda item:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-howard-sunset4-v4historic-00<= /a>



This E-mail and any= of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable proprietary information,= which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to T= ime Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the indivi= dual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recip= ient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distr= ibution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attac= hments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you h= ave received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately an= d permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any prin= tout.
______________________________________________= _ sunset4 mailing list sunset4@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sunset4
= --Boundary_(ID_tUCAxYXSVJwxhmrEpV0SyA)-- --Boundary_(ID_WNJeLT/uvbItww401uwqrA)-- From nobody Tue Mar 22 05:21:11 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: sunset4@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC8F12D588 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:21:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kFLt_k6au7Wv for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cdpipgw02.twcable.com (cdpipgw02.twcable.com [165.237.59.23]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88CED12D5A4 for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 05:21:05 -0700 (PDT) X-SENDER-IP: 10.64.163.145 X-SENDER-REPUTATION: None X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.24,376,1454994000"; d="scan'208,217";a="1019379432" Received: from unknown (HELO exchpapp04.corp.twcable.com) ([10.64.163.145]) by cdpipgw02.twcable.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 22 Mar 2016 08:20:07 -0400 Received: from EXCHPAPP03.corp.twcable.com (10.64.163.144) by exchpapp04.corp.twcable.com (10.64.163.145) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1156.6; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 08:21:03 -0400 Received: from EXCHPAPP03.corp.twcable.com ([10.64.163.144]) by exchpapp03.corp.twcable.com ([10.64.163.144]) with mapi id 15.00.1156.000; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 08:21:03 -0400 From: "George, Wes" To: Greg Skinner , Lee Howard Thread-Topic: [sunset4] Declaring IPv4 Historic Thread-Index: AQHRhDVNmlX3EgRMcEKVvfrf0BJPlw== Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 12:21:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.1.160122 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