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From: "Liushucheng (Will)" <liushucheng@huawei.com>
To: Nevil Brownlee <n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz>, SUPA list <supa@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Supa] DRAFT minutes for SUPA WG at IETF 95
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Date: Tue, 3 May 2016 18:48:04 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Supa] DRAFT minutes for SUPA WG at IETF 95
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>Bert: have not seem call for adoption in mailing list. want to review
>     the draft. Daniel King     <d.king@lancaster.ac.uk>

s/seem/seen and remove " Daniel King     <d.king@lancaster.ac.uk>"
=20
Should be=20
Bert: have not seen call for adoption in mailing list. want to review
     the draft.=20

The rests are fine with me.=20

Cheers,
Will (Shucheng LIU)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Supa [mailto:supa-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nevil Brownlee
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 11:37 PM
> To: SUPA list
> Cc: Nevil Brownlee
> Subject: [Supa] DRAFT minutes for SUPA WG at IETF 95
>=20
>=20
> Hi all:
>=20
> Thanks to Will(Shucheng) LIU for his careful note-taking!
>=20
> Here is the first draft of the minutes of our WG meeting at IETF 95 in Bu=
enos
> Aires.
>=20
> If you find any errors, or have suggestions for improvements (i.e. better=
 text ),
> please send them to me at the address cced on this email.  I plan to post=
 the
> final version on the SUPA Proceedings page on about 26 April.
>=20
> Cheers, Nevil
>=20
>=20
> SUPA Minutes by Will(Shucheng) LIU and Nevil Brownlee
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
> Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions WG (supa) Agenda for IETF 95, Bueno=
s
> Aires  (95-minutes-00) Friday, 8 April 2016, 1220-1320, Atlantico C
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
>=20
> Chairs:
> Nevil Brownlee  <n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz>
> Daniel King     <d.king@lancaster.ac.uk>
>=20
> About 30 people present, plus 5 others on Meetecho and 7 on jabber.
>=20
> AGENDA:
>=20
> 1. Note Well, Agenda review, Scribes                        =3D 2 min
>=20
> Chairs: Main focus is to get our deliverables going. No changes to the
> proposed agenda.
>=20
> 2. Update from last meeting / WG Status (Nevil)             =3D 3 min
>        - Call for adoption issued for Policy Model
>        - We need to decide on other drafts to adopt
>=20
> Nevil gave a brief update from the last WG meeting.
>=20
> 3. Current charter work items
>=20
>     a) Generic Policy Information Model                      =3D 10 min
>        draft-strassner-supa-generic-policy-info-model-05
>        Presenter: John Strassner [JS]
>=20
> JS: Motivation for building an information model is twofold
>      1) policy spans many different actors (end-users, business people,
>         application developers, admins, ...)
>      2) policies cover multiple technologies and abstractions
>         Hence, we need a consistent form and structure to enable
>         different actors to communicate with each other and work
>         together.  Reminded that the WG chairs issued a call for
>         adoption.
>=20
> Benoit: speak as a contributor: after checking the mailing list,
>      about the poll for adoption. Two questions: is it gppd work
>      to have IM?  shall we publish this?  The answers are, the
>      charter said we might work on IM and derive DM with IM. Then
>      nwe'll see in the end whether we should publish it.
>=20
> JS: aggree, good advice.
> Dan King:  Who has read this draft?  About 10 hands.
> Dan King:  Who think it would be a good start for a model, if we
>             decide to adopt?  - aroud 20 hands.
>      >>> Chairs will ask again (on list) for adoption as WG item.
>=20
>=20
>     b) YANG Data Model Draft(s)                              =3D 10
> min
>        draft-halpern-supa-generic-policy-data-model-00
>        Presenter: Joel [JH]
>=20
> JH: Is the working group willing to adopt this draft?
> Anh Le (Netcracker): Does this model nested policy (if then else if, etc)=
?
> JH: The representation of property of policy is captured by IM. There
>      are clauses,e.g., in ECA there are E/ C/ A clauses, each is a class.
> Bert: have not seem call for adoption in mailing list. want to review
>      the draft. Daniel King     <d.king@lancaster.ac.uk>
>=20
> Nevil: how many looked at the draft? - around 15 hands.
> Andy Bieman: is this to be the solution for users of SUPA?
> JH: Yes, this is the generic policy YANG DM, and hence,
>      a part of the SUPA solution.
> Nevil: are people ok with calling for adoption? - around 10 hands
> Bert: need more time to read it.
>      >>> Chairs will ask (on list) for adoption as WG item.
>=20
>=20
> c) Applicability of SUPA                                 =3D 10 min
>        draft-vadrevu-supa-applicability-06
>        Presenter: Ying Chen [YC]
>=20
> YC: Would like to see this I-D adopted by the WG.
> Will: It has several use cases, may need a priority of them
> YC: We have the actual use case that will be used in our network,
>      wewill focus on that.
> Diego Lopez: We have three model drafts, how should we merge and use
> them?
>      We need a single document describing the supa model.
> Dan King: Combine the use cases, merging of the architecture doc.
>      Show how the architecture.
>      How many people have read this document? - around 15 hands
> Nevil: There is a lot of work in here, but it's unclear how all of that
>      work meets the deliverables.  Would like to see it more concise and
>      focused, it needs further discussion on the list.  When it becomes
>      better define chairs will call for adoption as a WG item.
>=20
>=20
> d) SUPA Framework & Architecture                         =3D 10 min
>        Presenter: Bert [BW]
>=20
> BW: Proposes a path forward. Previous efforts were listed, asked a
>      set of questions that have been raised. proposed the formation
>      of a design team.
> Andy Bierman: too complex, I like a solution in the scope,  would like
>      to know who are implementing this and who will use it.
>=20
> Nevil: We already have a design team - the group of authors that have
>      authored this draft (or all of us in SUPA?).
>      I'd like to keep the wg focussed on its charter deliverables.
> Bert: Need an architecture, to clearly explain the particular
>      components to use.
> JS: Charter didn't contain architecture,  otherwise we need to recharter.
>      The IETF works bottom up, but architectures are done top-down.
> Bert: Framework should be used.
> Andy: Have a framework with no use cases, no need for a framework.
> Benoit: The charter says ... [reading the charter]
> JS: There are examples in the IM, there will be examples added to
>      the DM, applicability already has 5 use cases.
> Nevil: discuss on list.
> Joel: There are I-Ds out there, what is wrong with them?  Why can't we
>      discuss these drafts and fix them, instead of starting from scratch?
> Bert: I propose to have a design team to evaluate the exisitng ones.
> Georgios: Ask the authors of framework, whether they like to join
>      the design team.  Should discuss whether to work on exsitng or
>      write new ones.
> Nevil: Chair position: all should comment on the existing draft
>      candidates on the mailing list, discuss what part(s) should be
>      improved - "send text for improvements to the list!
>      We're running out of time, we have a another presentation from Jun
> Bi.
>=20
>=20
> 4. Discussion: which drafts to adopt as WG items?           =3D 5 min
>     Chairs will ask on list for adoption of IM and DM drafts
>       (marked >>> above)
>=20
> 5. Any Other Business                                       =3D
> Remaining min
>=20
>     a) Problem Statement for Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions (SUPA)
>        draft-bi-supa-problem-statement-00
>        Presenter: Jun  BI [JB]
> JB: This draft has existed for a while; the current version reflects
>      the changes that have been made to the supa value-proposition draft.
>=20
> Nevil: how many read it? - around 10 hands
>      We want to see the discussion on this go on, in particular we need
>      more discussion on the IM and DM.  More progress on DM would be
>      very welcome.
>=20
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Nevil Brownlee                          Computer Science
> Department
>   Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941             The University of Auckland
>   FAX: +64 9 373 7453   Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Supa mailing list
> Supa@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa


From nobody Tue May  3 12:39:51 2016
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From: "King, Daniel" <d.king@lancaster.ac.uk>
To: "Liushucheng (Will)" <liushucheng@huawei.com>, Nevil Brownlee <n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz>, SUPA list <supa@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Supa] DRAFT minutes for SUPA WG at IETF 95
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Date: Tue, 3 May 2016 19:39:39 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Supa] DRAFT minutes for SUPA WG at IETF 95
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Thanks Will. Updated.=20

BR, Dan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Supa [mailto:supa-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Liushucheng (Will)
Sent: 03 May 2016 23:48
To: Nevil Brownlee <n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz>; SUPA list <supa@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Supa] DRAFT minutes for SUPA WG at IETF 95

>Bert: have not seem call for adoption in mailing list. want to review
>     the draft. Daniel King     <d.king@lancaster.ac.uk>

s/seem/seen and remove " Daniel King     <d.king@lancaster.ac.uk>"
=20
Should be
Bert: have not seen call for adoption in mailing list. want to review
     the draft.=20

The rests are fine with me.=20

Cheers,
Will (Shucheng LIU)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Supa [mailto:supa-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nevil Brownlee
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 11:37 PM
> To: SUPA list
> Cc: Nevil Brownlee
> Subject: [Supa] DRAFT minutes for SUPA WG at IETF 95
>=20
>=20
> Hi all:
>=20
> Thanks to Will(Shucheng) LIU for his careful note-taking!
>=20
> Here is the first draft of the minutes of our WG meeting at IETF 95 in=20
> Buenos Aires.
>=20
> If you find any errors, or have suggestions for improvements (i.e.=20
> better text ), please send them to me at the address cced on this=20
> email.  I plan to post the final version on the SUPA Proceedings page on =
about 26 April.
>=20
> Cheers, Nevil
>=20
>=20
> SUPA Minutes by Will(Shucheng) LIU and Nevil Brownlee
>=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
> Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions WG (supa) Agenda for IETF 95,=20
> Buenos Aires  (95-minutes-00) Friday, 8 April 2016, 1220-1320,=20
> Atlantico C =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20
> Chairs:
> Nevil Brownlee  <n.brownlee@auckland.ac.nz>
> Daniel King     <d.king@lancaster.ac.uk>
>=20
> About 30 people present, plus 5 others on Meetecho and 7 on jabber.
>=20
> AGENDA:
>=20
> 1. Note Well, Agenda review, Scribes                        =3D 2 min
>=20
> Chairs: Main focus is to get our deliverables going. No changes to the=20
> proposed agenda.
>=20
> 2. Update from last meeting / WG Status (Nevil)             =3D 3 min
>        - Call for adoption issued for Policy Model
>        - We need to decide on other drafts to adopt
>=20
> Nevil gave a brief update from the last WG meeting.
>=20
> 3. Current charter work items
>=20
>     a) Generic Policy Information Model                      =3D 10 min
>        draft-strassner-supa-generic-policy-info-model-05
>        Presenter: John Strassner [JS]
>=20
> JS: Motivation for building an information model is twofold
>      1) policy spans many different actors (end-users, business people,
>         application developers, admins, ...)
>      2) policies cover multiple technologies and abstractions
>         Hence, we need a consistent form and structure to enable
>         different actors to communicate with each other and work
>         together.  Reminded that the WG chairs issued a call for
>         adoption.
>=20
> Benoit: speak as a contributor: after checking the mailing list,
>      about the poll for adoption. Two questions: is it gppd work
>      to have IM?  shall we publish this?  The answers are, the
>      charter said we might work on IM and derive DM with IM. Then
>      nwe'll see in the end whether we should publish it.
>=20
> JS: aggree, good advice.
> Dan King:  Who has read this draft?  About 10 hands.
> Dan King:  Who think it would be a good start for a model, if we
>             decide to adopt?  - aroud 20 hands.
>      >>> Chairs will ask again (on list) for adoption as WG item.
>=20
>=20
>     b) YANG Data Model Draft(s)                              =3D 10
> min
>        draft-halpern-supa-generic-policy-data-model-00
>        Presenter: Joel [JH]
>=20
> JH: Is the working group willing to adopt this draft?
> Anh Le (Netcracker): Does this model nested policy (if then else if, etc)=
?
> JH: The representation of property of policy is captured by IM. There
>      are clauses,e.g., in ECA there are E/ C/ A clauses, each is a class.
> Bert: have not seem call for adoption in mailing list. want to review
>      the draft. Daniel King     <d.king@lancaster.ac.uk>
>=20
> Nevil: how many looked at the draft? - around 15 hands.
> Andy Bieman: is this to be the solution for users of SUPA?
> JH: Yes, this is the generic policy YANG DM, and hence,
>      a part of the SUPA solution.
> Nevil: are people ok with calling for adoption? - around 10 hands
> Bert: need more time to read it.
>      >>> Chairs will ask (on list) for adoption as WG item.
>=20
>=20
> c) Applicability of SUPA                                 =3D 10 min
>        draft-vadrevu-supa-applicability-06
>        Presenter: Ying Chen [YC]
>=20
> YC: Would like to see this I-D adopted by the WG.
> Will: It has several use cases, may need a priority of them
> YC: We have the actual use case that will be used in our network,
>      wewill focus on that.
> Diego Lopez: We have three model drafts, how should we merge and use=20
> them?
>      We need a single document describing the supa model.
> Dan King: Combine the use cases, merging of the architecture doc.
>      Show how the architecture.
>      How many people have read this document? - around 15 hands
> Nevil: There is a lot of work in here, but it's unclear how all of that
>      work meets the deliverables.  Would like to see it more concise and
>      focused, it needs further discussion on the list.  When it becomes
>      better define chairs will call for adoption as a WG item.
>=20
>=20
> d) SUPA Framework & Architecture                         =3D 10 min
>        Presenter: Bert [BW]
>=20
> BW: Proposes a path forward. Previous efforts were listed, asked a
>      set of questions that have been raised. proposed the formation
>      of a design team.
> Andy Bierman: too complex, I like a solution in the scope,  would like
>      to know who are implementing this and who will use it.
>=20
> Nevil: We already have a design team - the group of authors that have
>      authored this draft (or all of us in SUPA?).
>      I'd like to keep the wg focussed on its charter deliverables.
> Bert: Need an architecture, to clearly explain the particular
>      components to use.
> JS: Charter didn't contain architecture,  otherwise we need to recharter.
>      The IETF works bottom up, but architectures are done top-down.
> Bert: Framework should be used.
> Andy: Have a framework with no use cases, no need for a framework.
> Benoit: The charter says ... [reading the charter]
> JS: There are examples in the IM, there will be examples added to
>      the DM, applicability already has 5 use cases.
> Nevil: discuss on list.
> Joel: There are I-Ds out there, what is wrong with them?  Why can't we
>      discuss these drafts and fix them, instead of starting from scratch?
> Bert: I propose to have a design team to evaluate the exisitng ones.
> Georgios: Ask the authors of framework, whether they like to join
>      the design team.  Should discuss whether to work on exsitng or
>      write new ones.
> Nevil: Chair position: all should comment on the existing draft
>      candidates on the mailing list, discuss what part(s) should be
>      improved - "send text for improvements to the list!
>      We're running out of time, we have a another presentation from=20
> Jun Bi.
>=20
>=20
> 4. Discussion: which drafts to adopt as WG items?           =3D 5 min
>     Chairs will ask on list for adoption of IM and DM drafts
>       (marked >>> above)
>=20
> 5. Any Other Business                                       =3D
> Remaining min
>=20
>     a) Problem Statement for Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions (SUPA)
>        draft-bi-supa-problem-statement-00
>        Presenter: Jun  BI [JB]
> JB: This draft has existed for a while; the current version reflects
>      the changes that have been made to the supa value-proposition draft.
>=20
> Nevil: how many read it? - around 10 hands
>      We want to see the discussion on this go on, in particular we need
>      more discussion on the IM and DM.  More progress on DM would be
>      very welcome.
>=20
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Nevil Brownlee                          Computer Science
> Department
>   Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941             The University of Auckland
>   FAX: +64 9 373 7453   Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Supa mailing list
> Supa@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa

_______________________________________________
Supa mailing list
Supa@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa


From nobody Tue May  3 18:13:22 2016
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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Nevil Brownlee, a Chair of the supa working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions
Area Name: Operations and Management Area
Session Requester: Nevil Brownlee

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  1.5 Hours
Number of Attendees: 75
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: i2nsf l3sm lime netmod netconf opsarea opsawg sdnrg pce
 Second Priority: rtgarea rtgwg i2rs



Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------


From nobody Mon May 23 14:27:21 2016
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Subject: [Supa] The SUPA WG has placed draft-halpern-supa-generic-policy-data-model in state "Candidate for WG Adoption"
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The SUPA WG has placed draft-halpern-supa-generic-policy-data-model in
state 
Candidate for WG Adoption (entered by Nevil Brownlee)

The document is available at
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-halpern-supa-generic-policy-data-model/


From nobody Mon May 23 15:03:52 2016
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From: "King, Daniel" <d.king@lancaster.ac.uk>
To: "supa@ietf.org" <supa@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: WG Adoption of draft-strassner-supa-generic-policy-info-model-05
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--_000_65174429B5AF4C45BD0798810EC48E0A8BCE8952EX0MB2lancsloca_
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Dear Supa'rs,

Following up the poll during the recent SUPA working group session @IETF95,=
 we would like to start the two week poll for adoption via the working grou=
p list for:

Generic Policy Information Model for Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions =
(SUPA)
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-strassner-supa-generic-policy-info-model-=
05

The adoption poll will end on June 6th. Please provide a clear indication o=
f your opinion in support or against the document, ideally with some though=
t for your decision.

The intention is to use this document as a base for addressing the followin=
g working group charter milestone:

"Submit the generic information model (Informational)"
https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/supa/charter/

We intend to follow-up the poll for this information model I-D, with a sepa=
rate adoption poll for the data model I-D (draft-halpern-supa-generic-polic=
y-data-model) that was also presented @IETF95 in the SUPA working group ses=
sion.

BR, Dan and Nevil.

--_000_65174429B5AF4C45BD0798810EC48E0A8BCE8952EX0MB2lancsloca_
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear Supa&#8217;rs,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Following up the poll during the recent SUPA working=
 group session @IETF95, we would like to start the two week poll for adopti=
on via the working group list for:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Generic Policy Information Model for Simplified Use =
of Policy Abstractions (SUPA)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-strassn=
er-supa-generic-policy-info-model-05">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-str=
assner-supa-generic-policy-info-model-05</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The adoption poll will end on June 6<sup>th</sup>. P=
lease provide a clear indication of your opinion in support or against the =
document, ideally with some thought for your decision.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The intention is to use this document as a base for =
addressing the following working group charter milestone:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8220;Submit the generic information model (Informa=
tional)&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/supa/char=
ter/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/supa/charter/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We intend to follow-up the poll for this information=
 model I-D, with a separate adoption poll for the data model I-D (draft-hal=
pern-supa-generic-policy-data-model) that was also presented @IETF95 in the=
 SUPA working group session. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">BR, Dan and Nevil. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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