From nobody Wed Jun 14 18:44:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: supa@ietf.org Delivered-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E3CA127010; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 18:44:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: bclaise@cisco.com, supa-chairs@ietf.org, smccammon@amsl.com, supa@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.54.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149749106217.14008.17158925919660935842.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 18:44:22 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Supa] supa - Cancelling a meeting request for IETF 99 X-BeenThere: supa@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "This list is to discuss SUPA \(Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions\) related issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 01:44:22 -0000 A request to cancel a meeting session has just been submitted by Stephanie McCammon, on behalf of the supa working group. From nobody Thu Jun 15 04:39:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A803129BB2; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 04:39:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r2ViPfeYfU9r; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 04:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mh-1-0.lancs.ac.uk (mh-1-0.lancs.ac.uk [148.88.65.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 474B5129BAE; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 04:39:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ex-1-ht0.lancs.ac.uk ([10.42.18.57] helo=EX-1-HT0.lancs.local) by mh-1-0.lancs.ac.uk with esmtps (TLSv1:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.88) (envelope-from ) id 1dLT7y-0002rQ-9R; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 12:39:54 +0100 Received: from EX-0-MB2.lancs.local ([fe80::9d98:936b:54d1:c531]) by EX-1-HT0.lancs.local ([fe80::d9e8:ad10:d075:a6b6%12]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 12:39:54 +0100 From: "King, Daniel" To: SUPA list CC: "ops-ads@ietf.org" , "supa-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: SUPA Update Thread-Index: AdLlx7FI0gJYsnA1SY+UuT+jZNMvmg== Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:39:53 +0000 Message-ID: <65174429B5AF4C45BD0798810EC48E0A942C73B2@EX-0-MB2.lancs.local> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [109.156.71.217] x-iss-local-domain: 1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_65174429B5AF4C45BD0798810EC48E0A942C73B2EX0MB2lancsloca_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Supa] SUPA Update X-BeenThere: supa@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss SUPA \(Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions\) related issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:39:58 -0000 --_000_65174429B5AF4C45BD0798810EC48E0A942C73B2EX0MB2lancsloca_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear supa'rs, We have cancelled our formal meeting in Prague. This decision was taken bas= ed on a proposed plan to focus effort on completing the existing WG items a= nd prepare for closure of the supa working group sometime between IETF 99 a= nd 100. A plan that is yet to be approved by Benoit. During the last working group meeting Benoit stated: "the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16 July) unless there is substan= tive progress on the Information Model and especially on the Data Model dra= ft by one month before the Prague meeting." The authors of the Data Model and Information Model I-Ds did submit new ver= sions but we only received one review. However, Nevil and I are working wit= h the IM and DM authors to gather reviewers in preparation of Last Call. Es= sentially, we are working to prep folks who would be able to review the doc= uments we Last Call, ideally these should be from policy/yang implementers. The Framework I-D has also received a review which is positive, and I am in= the process of reviewing the document myself to also help prepare the docu= ment for Last Call. Additionally, the Applicability I-D (a non-working grou= p document) received a review which is also useful. We have also seen notifications from other SDOs following supa, specificall= y: - ONUG: Investigating I2NSF combined with the SUPA data model and framework - ETSI Experiential Networked Intelligence (ENI): New initiative defining c= ontext aware networking systems, SUPA was identified as a key building bloc= k - MEF Open Lifecycle Service Orchestrator (LSO): Using SUPA between functio= nal components However, the indication from ONUG, ETSI and MEF does not materially change = the situation of SUPA but it does demonstrate wider interest in our work, a= nd at least some responsibility for supa/IETF to complete it (if possible).= If you are aware of near-term implementations now is the time to highlight= them. Again, we felt we did not need a WG meeting in Prague to progress the worki= ng group I-Ds, and given the IETF agenda coordination call (is today) we ha= d to cancel the supa WG session request ASAP, and unfortunately before we h= ad a chance to communicate the current situation to the rest of the working= group. Apologies for any surprise when you saw the cancellation notificati= on, and the lack of opportunity for wider discussion. As mentioned our proposed plan has been submitted to Benoit and is yet to b= e approved, therefore we will wait for his thoughts and ultimate decision. The SUPA Chairs would sincerely like to thank everyone for their participat= ion and especially the authors of I-Ds for their efforts. BR, Nevil and Dan. --_000_65174429B5AF4C45BD0798810EC48E0A942C73B2EX0MB2lancsloca_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear supa’rs,

 

We have cancelled our formal meeting in Prague. This= decision was taken based on a proposed plan to focus effort on completing = the existing WG items and prepare for closure of the supa working group som= etime between IETF 99 and 100. A plan that is yet to be approved by Benoit.

 

During the last working group meeting Benoit stated:=

 

“the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16 = July) unless there is substantive progress on the Information Model and esp= ecially on the Data Model draft by one month before the Prague meeting.R= 21;

 

The authors of the Data Model and Information Model = I-Ds did submit new versions but we only received one review. However, Nevi= l and I are working with the IM and DM authors to gather reviewers in prepa= ration of Last Call. Essentially, we are working to prep folks who would be able to review the documents we = Last Call, ideally these should be from policy/yang implementers.

 

The Framework I-D has also received a review which i= s positive, and I am in the process of reviewing the document myself to als= o help prepare the document for Last Call. Additionally, the Applicability = I-D (a non-working group document) received a review which is also useful.

 

We have also seen notifications from other SDOs foll= owing supa, specifically:

- ONUG: Investigating I2NSF combined with the SUPA d= ata model and framework

- ETSI Experiential Networked Intelligence (ENI): Ne= w initiative defining context aware networking systems, SUPA was identified= as a key building block

- MEF Open Lifecycle Service Orchestrator (LSO): Usi= ng SUPA between functional components

 

However, the indication from ONUG, ETSI and MEF does= not materially change the situation of SUPA but it does demonstrate wider = interest in our work, and at least some responsibility for supa/IETF to com= plete it (if possible). If you are aware of near-term implementations now is the time to highlight them.

 

Again, we felt we did not need a WG meeting in Pragu= e to progress the working group I-Ds, and given the IETF agenda coordinatio= n call (is today) we had to cancel the supa WG session request ASAP, and un= fortunately before we had a chance to communicate the current situation to the rest of the working group. Apo= logies for any surprise when you saw the cancellation notification, and the= lack of opportunity for wider discussion.

 

As mentioned our proposed plan has been submitted to= Benoit and is yet to be approved, therefore we will wait for his thoughts = and ultimate decision.

 

The SUPA Chairs would sincerely like to thank everyo= ne for their participation and especially the authors of I-Ds for their eff= orts.

 

BR, Nevil and Dan.

--_000_65174429B5AF4C45BD0798810EC48E0A942C73B2EX0MB2lancsloca_-- From nobody Thu Jun 15 05:46:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 762BF129C34; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 05:46:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4a4fFk7N0ZGa; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 05:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C507129C2B; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 05:46:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=18298; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1497530797; x=1498740397; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=KtJMi6SUyH+7uEh2NSzVqt6vK52q1UgotlHe7D2SS0g=; b=RAEHRi/K+ZKiDB3FspcMW/HX00pxqdlNemFZq7DZzptiQhApTut6HaGU SLuK/CzJLABAjuK6EGrQnuumqSoH0tMrppaxUq3DoKk1BzXBXFkB4A5Ln vTkyqn6wWZTVM9TfilCdppeRdolaiV+2Mfbi7WNNpO2c3RNlVjJJTK1e5 k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BJAQAIgUJZ/xbLJq1dDgwBAQEBAgEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEIAQEBAYJvPIEPgQ2ODnOQY4EVj1qFOoIRLIV4AoMbGAECAQEBAQEBAWsohRk?= =?us-ascii?q?GbgUGEAtGVwYBDAYCAQGKEAMVEKxdK4cNBIQRAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBGAWGYoFgKwuCODSETQEBhg4BBIk9CohMjDaHLownggeJESOGUIkagyKIQx8?= =?us-ascii?q?4gQowIQgbFR8qhQ0cgSdBPjYBhxIECxeCGQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,343,1493683200"; d="scan'208,217";a="695162715" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 15 Jun 2017 12:46:34 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.38] (ams-bclaise-nitro5.cisco.com [10.55.221.38]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v5FCkYDl016571; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 12:46:34 GMT To: "King, Daniel" , SUPA list Cc: "ops-ads@ietf.org" , "supa-chairs@ietf.org" References: <65174429B5AF4C45BD0798810EC48E0A942C73B2@EX-0-MB2.lancs.local> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <666784c3-d4df-9fa1-9661-d8e182e2c7da@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 14:46:30 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <65174429B5AF4C45BD0798810EC48E0A942C73B2@EX-0-MB2.lancs.local> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A960793FD27F768C0D18529E" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Supa] SUPA Update X-BeenThere: supa@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss SUPA \(Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions\) related issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 12:46:42 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A960793FD27F768C0D18529E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all, After the last IETF, I put a calendar reminder on June 16th to decide on the next steps for SUPA. This is inline with the our previous meeting minutes, so it should not come as a surprise. Granted, this is one day earlier than foreseen, but the IESG agenda coordination call takes place today, and it was important from a scheduling point of view to understand if SUPA would meet. The chairs informed me that no SUPA meeting is required in Prague. That triggered this discussion, just one day earlier. Our meeting minutes: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/supa/current/msg01612.html At the SUPA WG at IETF 98 (Tuesday, 28 March) we discussed the progress of the WG. Benoit (our AD) summed up the situation, pointing out that our drafts are not updated very frequently, and that the SUPA mailing list has been very quiet between meetings. At the meeting the authors of the SUPA Information model and the SUPA Data Model drafts said that those drafts should be ready for WG Last Call by 1 June, so that they could be sent to IESG for approval by about 1 July. After summing up the pros and cons for SUPA continuing, Benoit concluded by saying that the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16 July) unless there is substantive progress on the Information Model and especially on the Data Model drafts by one month before the Prague meeting. 'Substantive progress' here means seeing comments on and/or reviews of these drafts demonstrating that people - outside the small group of authors - have carefully read the drafts, or better, that they are actually using SUPA's Information and Data Models. I've been watching the list. Since the last IETF meeting, we received two new drafts ... draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-info-model-03.txt draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-03.txt ... and some draft reviews: gunter.wang@ericsson.com on on draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framework: Good feedback but it seems like only editorial to me. Tony tianxu@chinamobile.com on draft-cheng-supa-applicability: Some editorial comments and three technical ones: 1. I wonder the meaning of section 3, the part copied from framework draft, may not be needed. 2. I suggest to replace the title of 4.2.2.and 4.2.3 with detailed information instead of writing just Example 1 / 2. 3. The writer wrote “We will define "edgeInterface" role and "EnterpriseDomain" later in this note” but I failed to find the explanation for these two term. Benoit => it's more like one technical comment, the last one. Haining Wang: 18901341229@189.cn on draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-03: I understand that the GPIM YANG model provides an example of how to convert IM to DM (for general policy), and John’s SNMP blocking example (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/supa/DWEzaSBK6KBdsmQ0FE2-eypTzeY) exposes some details. But I am sorry that the whole picture is still not clear to me. It would be nice if the ECA Data Model part can explain in more details. March Blanchet on draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framework: - larger comment: I’m not sure what to do with this document. It looks like a large wish list of features. I guess I’m probably too used to implementation/protocol details. I guess I will wait until to see the actual protocol/yang models. Let's analyze the situation: I don't consider those reviews (btw a single one the DM, none on the IM) as "substantive progress". I don't see interest from YANG module authors, ready to reuse the SUPA YANG constructs. Being a year late according to the charter milestones, the window of opportunity to produce reusable work has been closing rapidly. I believe that SUPA had multiple chances to make it happen, and failed to deliver. With this in mind, I don't see how I should conclude anything else than this WG will be closing at IETF 99. Regards, Benoit (OPS AD) > > Dear supa’rs, > > We have cancelled our formal meeting in Prague. This decision was > taken based on a proposed plan to focus effort on completing the > existing WG items and prepare for closure of the supa working group > sometime between IETF 99 and 100. A plan that is yet to be approved by > Benoit. > > During the last working group meeting Benoit stated: > > “the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16 July) unless there is > substantive progress on the Information Model and especially on the > Data Model draft by one month before the Prague meeting.” > > The authors of the Data Model and Information Model I-Ds did submit > new versions but we only received one review. However, Nevil and I are > working with the IM and DM authors to gather reviewers in preparation > of Last Call. Essentially, we are working to prep folks who would be > able to review the documents we Last Call, ideally these should be > from policy/yang implementers. > > The Framework I-D has also received a review which is positive, and I > am in the process of reviewing the document myself to also help > prepare the document for Last Call. Additionally, the Applicability > I-D (a non-working group document) received a review which is also > useful. > > We have also seen notifications from other SDOs following supa, > specifically: > > - ONUG: Investigating I2NSF combined with the SUPA data model and > framework > > - ETSI Experiential Networked Intelligence (ENI): New initiative > defining context aware networking systems, SUPA was identified as a > key building block > > - MEF Open Lifecycle Service Orchestrator (LSO): Using SUPA between > functional components > > However, the indication from ONUG, ETSI and MEF does not materially > change the situation of SUPA but it does demonstrate wider interest in > our work, and at least some responsibility for supa/IETF to complete > it (if possible). If you are aware of near-term implementations now is > the time to highlight them. > > Again, we felt we did not need a WG meeting in Prague to progress the > working group I-Ds, and given the IETF agenda coordination call (is > today) we had to cancel the supa WG session request ASAP, and > unfortunately before we had a chance to communicate the current > situation to the rest of the working group. Apologies for any surprise > when you saw the cancellation notification, and the lack of > opportunity for wider discussion. > > As mentioned our proposed plan has been submitted to Benoit and is yet > to be approved, therefore we will wait for his thoughts and ultimate > decision. > > The SUPA Chairs would sincerely like to thank everyone for their > participation and especially the authors of I-Ds for their efforts. > > BR, Nevil and Dan. > --------------A960793FD27F768C0D18529E Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dear all,

After the last IETF, I put a calendar reminder on June 16th to decide on the next steps for SUPA.
This is inline with the our previous meeting minutes, so it should not come as a surprise.
Granted, this is one day earlier than foreseen, but the IESG agenda coordination call takes place today, and it was important from a scheduling point of view to understand if SUPA would meet. The chairs informed me that no SUPA meeting is required in Prague. That triggered this discussion, just one day earlier.

Our meeting minutes: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/supa/current/msg01612.html
At the SUPA WG at IETF 98 (Tuesday, 28 March) we discussed the
progress of the WG.  Benoit (our AD) summed up the situation, pointing
out that our drafts are not updated very frequently, and that the SUPA
mailing list has been very quiet between meetings.

At the meeting the authors of the SUPA Information model and the SUPA
Data Model drafts said that those drafts should be ready for WG Last
Call by 1 June, so that they could be sent to IESG for approval by
about 1 July.

After summing up the pros and cons for SUPA continuing, Benoit
concluded by saying that the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16
July) unless there is substantive progress on the Information Model
and especially on the Data Model drafts by one month before the Prague
meeting.  'Substantive progress' here means seeing comments on and/or
reviews of these drafts demonstrating that people - outside the small
group of authors - have carefully read the drafts, or better, that they
are actually using SUPA's Information and Data Models.
I've been watching the list.
Since the last IETF meeting, we received two new drafts ...
    draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-info-model-03.txt
    draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-03.txt
... and some draft reviews:
gunter.wang@ericsson.com on on draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framework:
Good feedback but it seems like only editorial to me.
Tony tianxu@chinamobile.com on draft-cheng-supa-applicability:
Some editorial comments and three technical ones:

1.       I wonder the meaning of section 3, the part copied from framework draft, may not be needed.

2.       I suggest to replace the title of 4.2.2.and 4.2.3 with detailed information instead of writing just   Example 1 / 2.

3.       The writer wrote “We will define "edgeInterface" role and "EnterpriseDomain" later in  this note” but I failed to find the explanation for these two term.
Benoit => it's more like one technical comment, the last one.

Haining Wang: 18901341229@189.cn on draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-03:
I understand that the GPIM YANG model provides an example of how to convert IM to DM (for general policy), and John’s SNMP blocking example (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/supa/DWEzaSBK6KBdsmQ0FE2-eypTzeY) exposes some details. But I am sorry that the whole picture is still not clear to me. It would be nice if the ECA Data Model part can explain in more details.

March Blanchet on draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framework:
- larger comment: I’m not sure what to do with this document. It looks like a large wish list of features. I guess I’m probably too used to implementation/protocol details. I guess I will wait until to see the actual protocol/yang models.

Let's analyze the situation:
I don't consider those reviews (btw a single one the DM, none on the IM) as "substantive progress".
I don't see interest from YANG module authors, ready to reuse the SUPA YANG constructs.
Being a year late according to the charter milestones, the window of opportunity to produce reusable work has been closing rapidly.
I believe that SUPA had multiple chances to make it happen, and failed to deliver.
With this in mind, I don't see how I should conclude anything else than this WG will be closing at IETF 99.

Regards, Benoit (OPS AD)

Dear supa’rs,

 

We have cancelled our formal meeting in Prague. This decision was taken based on a proposed plan to focus effort on completing the existing WG items and prepare for closure of the supa working group sometime between IETF 99 and 100. A plan that is yet to be approved by Benoit.

 

During the last working group meeting Benoit stated:

 

“the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16 July) unless there is substantive progress on the Information Model and especially on the Data Model draft by one month before the Prague meeting.”

 

The authors of the Data Model and Information Model I-Ds did submit new versions but we only received one review. However, Nevil and I are working with the IM and DM authors to gather reviewers in preparation of Last Call. Essentially, we are working to prep folks who would be able to review the documents we Last Call, ideally these should be from policy/yang implementers.

 

The Framework I-D has also received a review which is positive, and I am in the process of reviewing the document myself to also help prepare the document for Last Call. Additionally, the Applicability I-D (a non-working group document) received a review which is also useful.

 

We have also seen notifications from other SDOs following supa, specifically:

- ONUG: Investigating I2NSF combined with the SUPA data model and framework

- ETSI Experiential Networked Intelligence (ENI): New initiative defining context aware networking systems, SUPA was identified as a key building block

- MEF Open Lifecycle Service Orchestrator (LSO): Using SUPA between functional components

 

However, the indication from ONUG, ETSI and MEF does not materially change the situation of SUPA but it does demonstrate wider interest in our work, and at least some responsibility for supa/IETF to complete it (if possible). If you are aware of near-term implementations now is the time to highlight them.

 

Again, we felt we did not need a WG meeting in Prague to progress the working group I-Ds, and given the IETF agenda coordination call (is today) we had to cancel the supa WG session request ASAP, and unfortunately before we had a chance to communicate the current situation to the rest of the working group. Apologies for any surprise when you saw the cancellation notification, and the lack of opportunity for wider discussion.

 

As mentioned our proposed plan has been submitted to Benoit and is yet to be approved, therefore we will wait for his thoughts and ultimate decision.

 

The SUPA Chairs would sincerely like to thank everyone for their participation and especially the authors of I-Ds for their efforts.

 

BR, Nevil and Dan.


--------------A960793FD27F768C0D18529E-- From nobody Sun Jun 18 12:07:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: supa@ietf.org Delivered-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A49D124217; Sun, 18 Jun 2017 12:07:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: supa@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149781284519.10715.7870818840365571635@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2017 12:07:25 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Supa] I-D Action: draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-04.txt X-BeenThere: supa@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "This list is to discuss SUPA \(Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions\) related issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2017 19:07:25 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions of the IETF. Title : Generic Policy Data Model for Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions (SUPA) Authors : Joel Halpern John Strassner Filename : draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-04.txt Pages : 70 Date : 2017-06-18 Abstract: This document defines two YANG policy data modules. The first is a generic policy model that is meant to be extended on an application- specific basis. The second is an exemplary extension of the first generic policy model, and defines rules as event-condition-action policies. Both models are independent of the level of abstraction of the content and meaning of a policy. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jun 20 00:39:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8A91287A3; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 00:39:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iSpBdKBz7tTG; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 00:39:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F2E21274D0; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 00:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DPL77716; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 07:38:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.210) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 08:37:45 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM505-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.152]) by DGGEMM402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.210]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 15:37:40 +0800 From: youlizhao To: Benoit Claise , "King, Daniel" CC: "ops-ads@ietf.org" , "supa-chairs@ietf.org" , SUPA list Thread-Topic: [Supa] SUPA Update Thread-Index: AdLlx7FI0gJYsnA1SY+UuT+jZNMvmv//lVMA//f1DaA= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 07:37:40 +0000 Message-ID: <7AD05E972D7A0F47B3368775A9FF85FC9E54C3@DGGEMM505-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <65174429B5AF4C45BD0798810EC48E0A942C73B2@EX-0-MB2.lancs.local> <666784c3-d4df-9fa1-9661-d8e182e2c7da@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <666784c3-d4df-9fa1-9661-d8e182e2c7da@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.63.184.92] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7AD05E972D7A0F47B3368775A9FF85FC9E54C3DGGEMM505MBXchina_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020205.5948D111.012A, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.1.152, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 0c41c3032265ace0f7de60d339e3cc59 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Supa] SUPA Update X-BeenThere: supa@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss SUPA \(Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions\) related issues." 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Dear Benoit AD,

 

Thanks for pushing and monitoring the= SUPA WG progress.

 

I am sorry to see the email below. I = am an engineer in Huawei, and recently we have been developing the code of = SUPA ECA policy to control the network. In particular, we provide restful interface to users for configuring ECA policies followi= ng the ECA DM.

 

To be honest, IMO, the ECA IM and DM = are not mature enough for direct implementation. We are revising some parts= facilitating the implementation.

 

Although the SUPA IM and DM still con= tain flaws, we hoped to see them completed (also other documents, e.g., SUP= A framework) so that we can complete our own implementations based on SUPA standard work.

 

Thanks for your consideration.

 

 

Regards,

Leo

 

From: SUPA [mailto:supa-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Benoit Claise
Sent: 2017=C4=EA6=D4=C215= =C8=D5 20:47
To: King, Daniel <d.king@lancaster.ac.uk>; SUPA list <supa@= ietf.org>
Cc: ops-ads@ietf.org; supa-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Supa] SUPA Update

 

Dear all,

After the last IETF, I put a calendar reminder on June 16th to decide on th= e next steps for SUPA.
This is inline with the our previous meeting minutes, so it should not come= as a surprise.
Granted, this is one day earlier than foreseen, but the IESG agenda coordin= ation call takes place today, and it was important from a scheduling point = of view to understand if SUPA would meet. The chairs informed me that no SU= PA meeting is required in Prague. That triggered this discussion, just one day earlier.

Our meeting minutes: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/supa/current/msg01612.html

At the SUPA WG at IETF 98 (Tuesday, 28 March) we discussed the
progress of the WG.  Benoit (our AD) summed up the situation, poi=
nting
out that our drafts are not updated very frequently, and that the SUPA=

mailing list has been very quiet between meetings.
 
At the meeting the authors of the SUPA Information model and the SUPA<=
o:p>
Data Model drafts said that those drafts should be ready for WG Last
Call by 1 June, so that they could be sent to IESG for approval by
about 1 July.
 
After summing up the pros and cons for SUPA continuing, Benoit
concluded by saying that the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16<=
o:p>
July) unless there is substantive progress on the Information Model
and especially on the Data Model drafts by one month before the Prague=

meeting.  'Substantive progress' here means seeing comments on an=
d/or
reviews of these drafts demonstrating that people - outside the small<=
o:p>
group of authors - have carefully read the drafts, or better, that the=
y
are actually using SUPA's Information and Data Models.

I've been watching the list.

Since the last IETF meeting, we received two new dra= fts ...

    draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-in= fo-model-03.txt
    draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-03.txt

... and some draft reviews:

gunter.w= ang@ericsson.com on on draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framewor= k:

Good feedback but it seems like only editorial to me= .

Tony tianx= u@chinamobile.com on draft-cheng-supa-applicability:

Some editorial comments and three technical ones:

1.       I wonder the meaning of section 3, the pa= rt copied from framework draft, may not be needed.

2.       I suggest to replace the title of 4.2.2.a= nd 4.2.3 with detailed information instead of writing just   Example 1 / 2.

3.       The writer wrote =A1=B0We w= ill define "edgeInterface" role and "EnterpriseDomain" = later in  this note=A1=B1 but I failed to find the explanation for the= se two term.

Benoit =3D> it's more like one technical comment,= the last one.


Haining Wang: 18901341229@189.cn = on draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-03:

I understand that the= GPIM YANG model provides an example of how to convert IM to DM (for genera= l policy), and John=A1=AFs SNMP blocking example (https://mailarchi= ve.ietf.org/arch/msg/supa/DWEzaSBK6KBdsmQ0FE2-eypTzeY) exposes some details. But I am sorry that the whole picture is still not c= lear to me. It would be nice if the ECA Data Model part can explain in more= details.

March Blanchet on draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-manag= ement-framework:

- larger comment: I=A1=AFm not sure what to do with = this document. It looks like a large wish list of features. I guess I=A1=AF= m probably too used to implementation/protocol details. I guess I will wait= until to see the actual protocol/yang models.


Let's analyze the situation:
I don't consider those reviews (btw a single one the DM, none on the IM) as= "substantive progress".
I don't see interest from YANG module authors, ready to reuse the SUPA YANG= constructs.
Being a year late according to the charter milestones, the window of opport= unity to produce reusable work has been closing rapidly.
I believe that SUPA had multiple chances to make it happen, and failed to d= eliver.
With this in mind, I don't see how I should conclude anything else than thi= s WG will be closing at IETF 99.

Regards, Benoit (OPS AD)

Dear supa=A1=AFrs,

 

We have cancelled our formal meeting in Prague. This decision was = taken based on a proposed plan to focus effort on completing the existing W= G items and prepare for closure of the supa working group sometime between IETF 99 and 100. A plan that is yet to= be approved by Benoit.

 

During the last working group meeting Benoit stated:

 

=A1=B0the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16 July) unless th= ere is substantive progress on the Information Model and especially on the = Data Model draft by one month before the Prague meeting.=A1=B1

 

The authors of the Data Model and Information Model I-Ds did submi= t new versions but we only received one review. However, Nevil and I are wo= rking with the IM and DM authors to gather reviewers in preparation of Last Call. Essentially, we are working = to prep folks who would be able to review the documents we Last Call, ideal= ly these should be from policy/yang implementers.

 

The Framework I-D has also received a review which is positive, an= d I am in the process of reviewing the document myself to also help prepare= the document for Last Call. Additionally, the Applicability I-D (a non-working group document) received a review whi= ch is also useful.

 

We have also seen notifications from other SDOs following supa, sp= ecifically:

- ONUG: Investigating I2NSF combined with the SUPA data model and = framework

- ETSI Experiential Networked Intelligence (ENI): New initiative d= efining context aware networking systems, SUPA was identified as a key buil= ding block

- MEF Open Lifecycle Service Orchestrator (LSO): Using SUPA betwee= n functional components

 

However, the indication from ONUG, ETSI and MEF does not materiall= y change the situation of SUPA but it does demonstrate wider interest in ou= r work, and at least some responsibility for supa/IETF to complete it (if possible). If you are aware of near-term = implementations now is the time to highlight them.

 

Again, we felt we did not need a WG meeting in Prague to progress = the working group I-Ds, and given the IETF agenda coordination call (is tod= ay) we had to cancel the supa WG session request ASAP, and unfortunately before we had a chance to communicate the = current situation to the rest of the working group. Apologies for any surpr= ise when you saw the cancellation notification, and the lack of opportunity= for wider discussion.

 

As mentioned our proposed plan has been submitted to Benoit and is= yet to be approved, therefore we will wait for his thoughts and ultimate d= ecision.

 

The SUPA Chairs would sincerely like to thank everyone for their p= articipation and especially the authors of I-Ds for their efforts.

 

BR, Nevil and Dan.

 

--_000_7AD05E972D7A0F47B3368775A9FF85FC9E54C3DGGEMM505MBXchina_-- From nobody Tue Jun 20 00:57:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36A4C1292C5; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 00:57:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fn1aYopR3kmh; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 00:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-he1eur01on0109.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.0.109]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B394127601; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 00:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from DB6PR0601MB2167.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.168.57.26) by DB6PR0601MB2165.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.168.57.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1178.14; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 07:57:01 +0000 Received: from DB6PR0601MB2167.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::440:e544:f57e:d13c]) by DB6PR0601MB2167.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::440:e544:f57e:d13c%14]) with mapi id 15.01.1178.018; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 07:57:01 +0000 From: "Diego R. Lopez" To: Benoit Claise CC: "King, Daniel" , SUPA list , "ops-ads@ietf.org" , "supa-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Supa] SUPA Update Thread-Index: AdLlx7FI0gJYsnA1SY+UuT+jZNMvmgADbe8AAPFY1oA= Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 07:57:01 +0000 Message-ID: <3790BAEB-0E40-413B-BD84-60EE2E9CF483@telefonica.com> References: <65174429B5AF4C45BD0798810EC48E0A942C73B2@EX-0-MB2.lancs.local> <666784c3-d4df-9fa1-9661-d8e182e2c7da@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <666784c3-d4df-9fa1-9661-d8e182e2c7da@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com; x-originating-ip: [176.84.209.231] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB6PR0601MB2165; 7: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 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2b769781-0dac-484b-cb83-08d4b7b1ef4b x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(300000500055)(300135000095)(300000501055)(300135300095)(300000502055)(300135100095)(22001)(2017030254075)(300000503055)(300135400095)(48565401081)(201703131423075)(201703031133081)(300000504055)(300135200095)(300000505055)(300135600095)(300000506048)(300135500095); SRVR:DB6PR0601MB2165; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB6PR0601MB2165: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(37575265505322)(40392960112811)(192374486261705)(788757137089)(95692535739014)(5213294742642); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(6040450)(601004)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(93006095)(93001095)(3002001)(10201501046)(100000703101)(100105400095)(6055026)(6041248)(20161123560025)(20161123558100)(201703131423075)(201702281529075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123564025)(20161123562025)(20161123555025)(6072148)(100000704101)(100105200095)(100000705101)(100105500095); SRVR:DB6PR0601MB2165; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:DB6PR0601MB2165; x-forefront-prvs: 03449D5DD1 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(979002)(39410400002)(39400400002)(39850400002)(39860400002)(39840400002)(39450400003)(24454002)(40134004)(252514010)(25724002)(10710500007)(2906002)(15650500001)(6246003)(3280700002)(81166006)(6506006)(82746002)(66066001)(38730400002)(110136004)(54356999)(76176999)(2900100001)(3660700001)(6512007)(54906002)(54896002)(8676002)(189998001)(2950100002)(236005)(50986999)(7110500001)(6436002)(8936002)(606005)(6916009)(53936002)(5250100002)(6306002)(99286003)(575784001)(83716003)(6116002)(102836003)(3846002)(4326008)(7906003)(6486002)(966005)(2420400007)(7736002)(229853002)(36756003)(5660300001)(86362001)(14454004)(53546009)(25786009)(478600001)(33656002)(969003)(989001)(999001)(1009001)(1019001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DB6PR0601MB2165; H:DB6PR0601MB2167.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:ovrnspm; PTR:InfoNoRecords; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: telefonica.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3790BAEB0E40413BBD8460EE2E9CF483telefonicacom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: telefonica.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Jun 2017 07:57:01.7273 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 9744600e-3e04-492e-baa1-25ec245c6f10 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR0601MB2165 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Supa] SUPA Update X-BeenThere: supa@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss SUPA \(Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions\) related issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 07:57:11 -0000 --_000_3790BAEB0E40413BBD8460EE2E9CF483telefonicacom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Benoit, While I cannot talk for YANG module authors, and it is true that the WG has= a significant delay in its deliverables, I =91d like to stress that SUPA h= as produced reusable work that is being used elsewhere, and a closing of th= e group before it finishes its commitments would damage these other works. = I am directly involved in the I2NSF WG (that is progressing quite well in m= y opinion), and in several collaborative European projects related with 5G = and security, including a number of network operators that are experimentin= g with SUPA-based policy statements. And I am aware of the ONUG interest as= well, though not being involved I cannot detail what they are targeting no= w. So I would ask you to reconsider the decision of closing SUPA at IETF 99. Be goode, On 15 Jun 2017, at 14:46 , Benoit Claise > wrote: Dear all, After the last IETF, I put a calendar reminder on June 16th to decide on th= e next steps for SUPA. This is inline with the our previous meeting minutes, so it should not come= as a surprise. Granted, this is one day earlier than foreseen, but the IESG agenda coordin= ation call takes place today, and it was important from a scheduling point = of view to understand if SUPA would meet. The chairs informed me that no SU= PA meeting is required in Prague. That triggered this discussion, just one = day earlier. Our meeting minutes: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/supa/current/msg= 01612.html At the SUPA WG at IETF 98 (Tuesday, 28 March) we discussed the progress of the WG. Benoit (our AD) summed up the situation, pointing out that our drafts are not updated very frequently, and that the SUPA mailing list has been very quiet between meetings. At the meeting the authors of the SUPA Information model and the SUPA Data Model drafts said that those drafts should be ready for WG Last Call by 1 June, so that they could be sent to IESG for approval by about 1 July. After summing up the pros and cons for SUPA continuing, Benoit concluded by saying that the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16 July) unless there is substantive progress on the Information Model and especially on the Data Model drafts by one month before the Prague meeting. 'Substantive progress' here means seeing comments on and/or reviews of these drafts demonstrating that people - outside the small group of authors - have carefully read the drafts, or better, that they are actually using SUPA's Information and Data Models. I've been watching the list. Since the last IETF meeting, we received two new drafts ... draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-info-model-03.txt draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-03.txt ... and some draft reviews: gunter.wang@ericsson.com on on draft-ietf-= supa-policy-based-management-framework: Good feedback but it seems like only editorial to me. Tony tianxu@chinamobile.com on draft-cheng-s= upa-applicability: Some editorial comments and three technical ones: 1. I wonder the meaning of section 3, the part copied from framework = draft, may not be needed. 2. I suggest to replace the title of 4.2.2.and 4.2.3 with detailed in= formation instead of writing just Example 1 / 2. 3. The writer wrote =93We will define "edgeInterface" role and "Enter= priseDomain" later in this note=94 but I failed to find the explanation fo= r these two term. Benoit =3D> it's more like one technical comment, the last one. Haining Wang: 18901341229@189.cn on draft-ietf-s= upa-generic-policy-data-model-03: I understand that the GPIM YANG model provides an example of how to convert= IM to DM (for general policy), and John=92s SNMP blocking example (https:/= /mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/supa/DWEzaSBK6KBdsmQ0FE2-eypTzeY) exposes so= me details. But I am sorry that the whole picture is still not clear to me.= It would be nice if the ECA Data Model part can explain in more details. March Blanchet on draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framework: - larger comment: I=92m not sure what to do with this document. It looks li= ke a large wish list of features. I guess I=92m probably too used to implem= entation/protocol details. I guess I will wait until to see the actual prot= ocol/yang models. Let's analyze the situation: I don't consider those reviews (btw a single one the DM, none on the IM) as= "substantive progress". I don't see interest from YANG module authors, ready to reuse the SUPA YANG= constructs. Being a year late according to the charter milestones, the window of opport= unity to produce reusable work has been closing rapidly. I believe that SUPA had multiple chances to make it happen, and failed to d= eliver. With this in mind, I don't see how I should conclude anything else than thi= s WG will be closing at IETF 99. Regards, Benoit (OPS AD) Dear supa=92rs, We have cancelled our formal meeting in Prague. This decision was taken bas= ed on a proposed plan to focus effort on completing the existing WG items a= nd prepare for closure of the supa working group sometime between IETF 99 a= nd 100. A plan that is yet to be approved by Benoit. During the last working group meeting Benoit stated: =93the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16 July) unless there is subst= antive progress on the Information Model and especially on the Data Model d= raft by one month before the Prague meeting.=94 The authors of the Data Model and Information Model I-Ds did submit new ver= sions but we only received one review. However, Nevil and I are working wit= h the IM and DM authors to gather reviewers in preparation of Last Call. Es= sentially, we are working to prep folks who would be able to review the doc= uments we Last Call, ideally these should be from policy/yang implementers. The Framework I-D has also received a review which is positive, and I am in= the process of reviewing the document myself to also help prepare the docu= ment for Last Call. Additionally, the Applicability I-D (a non-working grou= p document) received a review which is also useful. We have also seen notifications from other SDOs following supa, specificall= y: - ONUG: Investigating I2NSF combined with the SUPA data model and framework - ETSI Experiential Networked Intelligence (ENI): New initiative defining c= ontext aware networking systems, SUPA was identified as a key building bloc= k - MEF Open Lifecycle Service Orchestrator (LSO): Using SUPA between functio= nal components However, the indication from ONUG, ETSI and MEF does not materially change = the situation of SUPA but it does demonstrate wider interest in our work, a= nd at least some responsibility for supa/IETF to complete it (if possible).= If you are aware of near-term implementations now is the time to highlight= them. Again, we felt we did not need a WG meeting in Prague to progress the worki= ng group I-Ds, and given the IETF agenda coordination call (is today) we ha= d to cancel the supa WG session request ASAP, and unfortunately before we h= ad a chance to communicate the current situation to the rest of the working= group. Apologies for any surprise when you saw the cancellation notificati= on, and the lack of opportunity for wider discussion. As mentioned our proposed plan has been submitted to Benoit and is yet to b= e approved, therefore we will wait for his thoughts and ultimate decision. The SUPA Chairs would sincerely like to thank everyone for their participat= ion and especially the authors of I-Ds for their efforts. BR, Nevil and Dan. _______________________________________________ SUPA mailing list SUPA@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa -- "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno" Dr Diego R. Lopez Telefonica I+D http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/ e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com Tel: +34 913 129 041 Mobile: +34 682 051 091 ---------------------------------- ________________________________ Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, pu= ede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclus= ivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario ind= icado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o= copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislaci= =F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo = comunique inmediatamente por esta misma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n. The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidenti= al information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named = above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are= hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this co= mmunication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission = in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you h= ave received this communication in error and then delete it. Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinat=E1rio= , pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiada ou confidencial e =E9 para uso ex= clusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=E3o =E9 vossa senhoria o des= tinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utiliza=E7=E3o, div= ulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autoriza=E7=E3o pode estar proibida em virtude= da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe = que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destru= i=E7=E3o --_000_3790BAEB0E40413BBD8460EE2E9CF483telefonicacom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Benoit,

While I cannot talk for YANG module authors, and it is true= that the WG has a significant delay in its deliverables, I =91d like to st= ress that SUPA has produced reusable work that is being used elsewhere, and= a closing of the group before it finishes its commitments would damage these other works. I am directly involved in = the I2NSF WG (that is progressing quite well in my opinion), and in several= collaborative European projects related with 5G and security, including a = number of network operators that are experimenting with SUPA-based policy statements. And I am aware of the= ONUG interest as well, though not being involved I cannot detail what they= are targeting now.

So I would ask you to reconsider the decision of closing SU= PA at IETF 99.

Be goode,

On 15 Jun 2017, at 14:46 , Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> wrote:

Dear all,

After the last IETF, I put a calendar reminder on June 16th to decide on th= e next steps for SUPA.
This is inline with the our previous meeting minutes, so it should not come= as a surprise.
Granted, this is one day earlier than foreseen, but the IESG agenda coordin= ation call takes place today, and it was important from a scheduling point = of view to understand if SUPA would meet. The chairs informed me that no SU= PA meeting is required in Prague. That triggered this discussion, just one day earlier.

Our meeting minutes: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/supa/current/msg01612.html
At the SUPA WG at IETF 98 (Tuesday, =
28 March) we discussed the
progress of the WG.  Benoit (our AD) summed up the situation, pointing
out that our drafts are not updated very frequently, and that the SUPA
mailing list has been very quiet between meetings.

At the meeting the authors of the SUPA Information model and the SUPA
Data Model drafts said that those drafts should be ready for WG Last
Call by 1 June, so that they could be sent to IESG for approval by
about 1 July.

After summing up the pros and cons for SUPA continuing, Benoit
concluded by saying that the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16
July) unless there is substantive progress on the Information Model
and especially on the Data Model drafts by one month before the Prague
meeting.  'Substantive progress' here means seeing comments on and/or
reviews of these drafts demonstrating that people - outside the small
group of authors - have carefully read the drafts, or better, that they
are actually using SUPA's Information and Data Models.
I've been watching the list.
Since the last IETF meeting, we received two new drafts ...
    draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-in= fo-model-03.txt
    draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-03.txt
... and some draft reviews:
gunter.wang@ericsson.com on on draft-ietf-su= pa-policy-based-management-framework:
Good feedback but it seems like only editorial to me= .
Tony tianxu@chinamobile.com on draft-cheng-supa-applicability:
Some editorial comments and three technical ones:

1.       I wonder= the meaning of section 3, the part copied from framework draft, may not be= needed.

2.       I sugges= t to replace the title of 4.2.2.and 4.2.3 with detailed information instead= of writing just   Example 1 / 2.

3.       The writer wrote =93We will d= efine "edgeInterface" role and "EnterpriseDomain" later= in  this note=94 but I failed to find the explanation for these two t= erm.
Benoit =3D> it's more like one technical comment,= the last one.

Haining Wang: 18901341229@189.cn on draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-03:
I understand that th= e GPIM YANG model provides an example of how to convert IM to DM (for gener= al policy), and John=92s SNMP blocking example (https://= mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/supa/DWEzaSBK6KBdsmQ0FE2-eypTzeY) exposes some details. But I am sorry that the whole picture is still not c= lear to me. It would be nice if the ECA Data Model part can explain in more= details.

March Blanchet on draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framework:
- larger comment: I=92m not sure what to do with thi= s document. It looks like a large wish list of features. I guess I=92m prob= ably too used to implementation/protocol details. I guess I will wait until= to see the actual protocol/yang models.

Let's analyze the situation:
I don't consider those reviews (btw a single one the DM, none on the IM) as= "substantive progress".
I don't see interest from YANG module authors, ready to reuse the SUPA YANG= constructs.
Being a year late according to the charter milestones, the window of opport= unity to produce reusable work has been closing rapidly.
I believe that SUPA had multiple chances to make it happen, and failed to d= eliver.
With this in mind, I don't see how I should conclude anything else than thi= s WG will be closing at IETF 99.

Regards, Benoit (OPS AD)

Dear supa=92rs,

 

We have cancelled our formal meeting in Prague. This= decision was taken based on a proposed plan to focus effort on completing = the existing WG items and prepare for closure of the supa working group som= etime between IETF 99 and 100. A plan that is yet to be approved by Benoit.

 

During the last working group meeting Benoit stated:=

 

=93the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16 July= ) unless there is substantive progress on the Information Model and especia= lly on the Data Model draft by one month before the Prague meeting.=94

 

The authors of the Data Model and Information Model = I-Ds did submit new versions but we only received one review. However, Nevi= l and I are working with the IM and DM authors to gather reviewers in prepa= ration of Last Call. Essentially, we are working to prep folks who would be able to review the documents we = Last Call, ideally these should be from policy/yang implementers.

 

The Framework I-D has also received a review which i= s positive, and I am in the process of reviewing the document myself to als= o help prepare the document for Last Call. Additionally, the Applicability = I-D (a non-working group document) received a review which is also useful.

 

We have also seen notifications from other SDOs foll= owing supa, specifically:

- ONUG: Investigating I2NSF combined with the SUPA d= ata model and framework

- ETSI Experiential Networked Intelligence (ENI): Ne= w initiative defining context aware networking systems, SUPA was identified= as a key building block

- MEF Open Lifecycle Service Orchestrator (LSO): Usi= ng SUPA between functional components

 

However, the indication from ONUG, ETSI and MEF does= not materially change the situation of SUPA but it does demonstrate wider = interest in our work, and at least some responsibility for supa/IETF to com= plete it (if possible). If you are aware of near-term implementations now is the time to highlight them.

 

Again, we felt we did not need a WG meeting in Pragu= e to progress the working group I-Ds, and given the IETF agenda coordinatio= n call (is today) we had to cancel the supa WG session request ASAP, and un= fortunately before we had a chance to communicate the current situation to the rest of the working group. Apo= logies for any surprise when you saw the cancellation notification, and the= lack of opportunity for wider discussion.

 

As mentioned our proposed plan has been submitted to= Benoit and is yet to be approved, therefore we will wait for his thoughts = and ultimate decision.

 

The SUPA Chairs would sincerely like to thank everyo= ne for their participation and especially the authors of I-Ds for their eff= orts.

 

BR, Nevil and Dan.


_______________________________________________
SUPA mailing list
SUPA@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa

--
"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D
http://people.tid.= es/diego.lopez/

e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com
Tel:    +34 913 129 041
Mobile: +34 682 051 091
----------------------------------



Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, pu= ede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclus= ivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario ind= icado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede e= star prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este m= ensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta m= isma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n.

The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidenti= al information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named = above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are= hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If y= ou have received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immedia= tely reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error= and then delete it.

Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinat=E1rio= , pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiada ou confidencial e =E9 para uso ex= clusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=E3o =E9 vossa senhoria o des= tinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utiliza=E7=E3o, divulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autoriza=E7=E3o p= ode estar proibida em virtude da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta me= nsagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mes= ma via e proceda a sua destrui=E7=E3o
 --_000_3790BAEB0E40413BBD8460EE2E9CF483telefonicacom_-- From nobody Tue Jun 20 01:56:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E358129408; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 01:56:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.922 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9juwIFk45DNV; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 01:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sendh.mailex.chinaunicom.cn (sendh.mailex.chinaunicom.cn [210.53.66.231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9975D1293F5; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 01:56:02 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 0a000f36-f79016d000001965-78-5948e320895e Received: from M10-CEN-MLHUB01.cnc.intra ( [10.0.192.41]) by sendh.mailex.chinaunicom.cn (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 03.F0.06501.023E8495; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:56:00 +0800 (HKT) Received: from M10-HQ-MLCEN05.cnc.intra (10.249.212.35) by M10-CEN-MLHUB01.cnc.intra (10.0.192.41) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.406.0; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:56:00 +0800 Received: from M10-HQ-ML06.hq.cnc.intra (10.249.213.76) by M10-HQ-MLCEN05.cnc.intra (10.249.212.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1178.4; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:56:00 +0800 Received: from ying-PC (10.161.31.196) by M10-HQ-ML06.hq.cnc.intra (10.249.213.76) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1178.4; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:55:59 +0800 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 16:55:56 +0800 From: =?utf-8?B?WWluZyBDaGVuZw==?= To: =?utf-8?B?QmVub2l0IENsYWlzZQ==?= , =?utf-8?B?S2luZywgRGFuaWVs?= , =?utf-8?B?U1VQQSBsaXN0?= CC: =?utf-8?B?b3BzLWFkc0BpZXRmLm9yZw==?= , =?utf-8?B?c3VwYS1jaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc=?= References: <65174429B5AF4C45BD0798810EC48E0A942C73B2@EX-0-MB2.lancs.local>, <666784c3-d4df-9fa1-9661-d8e182e2c7da@cisco.com> Message-ID: <201706201655563497565@chinaunicom.cn> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 15, 201, 26 [cn] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====003_Dragon260454020707_=====" X-Originating-IP: [10.161.31.196] X-ClientProxiedBy: M10-HQ-MLF02.hq.cnc.intra (10.249.213.51) To M10-HQ-ML06.hq.cnc.intra (10.249.213.76) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpjkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42LhYjigqavw2CPS4OI9M4ujjyUsXqwLtlj8 ZDqzxfGuRmaL2VtWMTuwekz5vZHVY8mSn0wepw6kBzBHcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGV0vl/BVnDq MWPFjmW/mBoYT9xl7GLk5JAQMJFYv+EtM4QtJnHh3nq2LkYuDiGBA4wSRzb3skM4Wxkljh+Y COXsYJT4cLafGcJZzihx7NVXNpB+FgFViWnNnWCz2ATsJZq272IFKRIRmMsoMaXrHDtIglmg TuLP1b0sILaQQL3ExY2/wBqEBSwl3k34zwRi8woYSezY28EKcZSqxNW2Pqi4oMTJmU9YIOYE S6w+3QPUywE0R11i+S07iHJFiReXTzNB2FkSVzY8YZvAKDwLSfcsJN2zgLqZBTQl1u/Shwgr SkzpfsgOYWtItM6Zy44svoCRbRUjV7Cvu4WxhYGuv8kmRnDs8JvtYPyxxPUQowAHoxIPL8NX 90gh1sSy4srcQ4wSHMxKIrw8Jz0ihXhTEiurUovy44tKc1KLDzFKc7AoifOqxdhFCgmkJ5ak ZqemFqQWwWSZODilGhhLZwgVSy+rCjhW97v40Z6o2dNz+fhLp9gecprfoFZSc1HZ/zpX1osn q5fftLqyd4FNl4rU0qMax+t+/sg7wjOl9Hog44vlHtOnCj9at++79f4dLMqnQ/TOPQqeq9cv +2BXZPPOIpmlrjm9Wl+rmxWZRSR85FP8rWd9bwyZdzcy+rdtK1Mlm5sSS3FGoqEWc1FxIgD1 5IJ7mQIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Supa] =?utf-8?q?SUPA_Update?= X-BeenThere: supa@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss SUPA \(Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions\) related issues." 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X-Original-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA2AB131968 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 02:32:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IbaX_uNauYTb for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 02:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a.mx.secunet.com (a.mx.secunet.com [62.96.220.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3972129426 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 02:32:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by a.mx.secunet.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4950120097; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 11:32:40 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by secunet Received: from a.mx.secunet.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (a.mx.secunet.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yeAO8CKLfxQ8; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 11:32:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-essen-01.secunet.de (mail-essen-01.secunet.de [10.53.40.204]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by a.mx.secunet.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2EFA2008A; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 11:32:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.208.1.212] (10.208.1.212) by mail-essen-01.secunet.de (10.53.40.204) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.351.0; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 11:32:37 +0200 From: Johannes Merkle References: CC: "Liushucheng (Will Liu)" To: Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 11:32:37 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [10.208.1.212] X-G-Data-MailSecurity-for-Exchange-State: 0 X-G-Data-MailSecurity-for-Exchange-Error: 0 X-G-Data-MailSecurity-for-Exchange-Sender: 23 X-G-Data-MailSecurity-for-Exchange-Server: d65e63f7-5c15-413f-8f63-c0d707471c93 X-EXCLAIMER-MD-CONFIG: 2c86f778-e09b-4440-8b15-867914633a10 X-G-Data-MailSecurity-for-Exchange-Guid: 80831A7B-7785-4BBC-962C-1FBBDAA669FC Archived-At: Subject: [Supa] review for draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framework X-BeenThere: supa@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss SUPA \(Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions\) related issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 09:32:47 -0000 I have conducted a review of draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framework. These are my comments: - Generally, the specification is very abstract and not easy to understand. For instance, it is not explained, what exactly the translation of the information models to data models means. Maybe I lack the necessary experience in the field of network management. I was also surprised that the ID does not define any specific syntax or semantic. For an ID / RFC, the specification is quite vague and unspecific, and it reads like an introduction. - Abstract: YANG data models to encode policy, which will point to should be YANG data models to encode policies, which point to or YANG data models to encode a policy, which points to Section 1, 3rd paragraph: The GPIM defines concepts and terminology needed by policy management independent of the form and content of the policy rule. The ECA What does "form" exactly mean here. Syntax? Structure? Encoding? 4th paragraph: The GPIM and the EPRIM will both be translated into corresponding YANG [RFC6020][RFC6020bis] modules that define policy concepts, I suggest to replace "will" by "can". additional YANG modules may also be defined from the GPIM and/or EPRIM to manage specific functions. I suggest to change "defined" to "derived" Section 2 General: The following Terms are missing: SUPA, ECA, YANG, EMS, EMS/NMS/Controller, OSS/BSS/Orchestrator 3rd Paragrapgh (GPDM): the service(s) to be managed using policy. should be the service(s) to be managed using policies. or the service(s) to be managed using a policy. Section 3.1: 1st paragraph: information (e.g., part of a sentence that was cut out).) The meaning of "sentence" in this context is not clear to me. 2nd paragraph: operator interacts with the interface, which is then translated to configuration snippets. I don't understand. The interface is translated to configuration data? 3rd paragraph: Note that YANG models may not exist. In which context? 7th paragraph (1st paragraph on page 6): types of policies: ECA policy rules and declarative policy statements. The distinction between ECA policies and declarative policies is not explained. Furthermore, you could mention already here, that declarative policies are out-of-scope for this ID. 9th paragraph: During the run time, components communicate with the data instances for management and monitoring. I don't understand what you mean by "data instance" and how it could communicate? Figure 2: Some spaces are missing: ECAPolicyRule and PolicyRule Figure 2: OSS/BSS Orchestrator is shown but not listed in the explanation above. Explanation of Figure 2: ECA Policy Rule Information Data Model (EPRIM): should be ECA Policy Rule Information Model (EPRIM): Network Service and Resource Data Models: models of the service as These are not shown in Figure 2. Below Figure 3: Policies are used to control the management of resources and services, while data from resources and services are used to select and/or modify policies during runtime. The latter type of interaction should be mentioned in the explanation of the communication (1). Thus (1) policy manages and can adjust service behavior as necessary (1:1..n) should be (1) policy manages and can adjust service behavior as necessary (1:1..n). In addition, data from resources and services are used to select and/or modify policies during runtime. Section 3.3, 1st paragraph: ERPIM --> EPRIM Best regards, Johannes Liushucheng (Will Liu) schrieb am 18.05.2017 um 18:10: > Dear Johannes, > > Thanks for your response. I understand. Actually one of use cases of SUPA is related to SMNP. > > A normal review will be also helpful. Many thanks! > > Regards, > Will (Shucheng LIU) > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Johannes Merkle [mailto:johannes.merkle@secunet.com] >> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 6:07 PM >> To: Liushucheng (Will Liu) >> Subject: Re: IETF review >> >> Hi Will, >> >> I had a quick glance at your draft and see that it deals with network >> management. I have to confess that I am completely unexperienced in that >> area. My draft was dealing with authentication methods for SNMP and I was >> very happy that I didn't have to write anything specific about SNMP, because >> I wouldn't have been able to. Furthermore, I have not followed the activities >> of opsawg (except for my draft). >> >> Therefore, I con only offer a formal review (language, typos, >> comprehensibility for non-NM-experts), and I would be happy to do that in >> the beginning of June. Please indicate, if this is fine for you. >> >> Regards, >> Johannes >> >> Liushucheng (Will Liu) schrieb am 16.05.2017 um 17:58: >>> Hi Johannes, >>> >>> >>> >>> This is Will, who reviewed your draft >>> draft-ietf-opsawg-hmac-sha-2-usm-snmp-new >>> > snmp-new/>as an OPS area directorate. >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ops-dir/current/msg01694.html >>> >>> >>> >>> I wonder whether you could do me a favor. One of my drafts is looking >>> for review before it can be progressed. If you could help, please >>> review it and post your comments to the mailing list ( supa@ietf.org >> ). Many thanks! >>> >>> My draft link: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-manageme >>> nt-framework/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Will (Shucheng LIU) >>> >> > > -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Dr. Johannes Merkle Principal Division Innere Sicherheit secunet Security Networks AG Mergenthaler Allee 77 65760 Eschborn Germany Telefon +49 201 54 54-3091 Telefax +49 201 54 54-1325 Mobil +49 175 2224439 johannes.merkle@secunet.com www.secunet.com From nobody Tue Jun 20 19:16:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8D961296C9; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 19:16:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UkIFt_E2lz4r; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 19:16:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chinatelecom.cn (prt-mail.chinatelecom.cn [42.123.76.221]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95F3312957A; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 19:16:19 -0700 (PDT) HMM_SOURCE_IP: 172.18.0.188:48920.1981818840 HMM_ATTACHE_NUM: 0000 HMM_SOURCE_TYPE: SMTP Received: from clientip-219.142.69.75 (unknown [172.18.0.188]) by chinatelecom.cn (HERMES) with ESMTP id A8AD32800C4; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:15:55 +0800 (CST) Received: from ip<219.142.69.75> ([172.18.0.188]) by App0023 with ESMTP id b1f0f99a-8566-4928-9ac8-5e6fcb2bf19e for bclaise@cisco.com; Wed Jun 21 10:16:11 2017 0/X-Total-Score: 0: X-Real-From: xiechf.bri@chinatelecom.cn X-Receive-IP: 172.18.0.188 X-MEDUSA-Status: 0 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 10:15:51 +0800 From: "xiechf.bri@chinatelecom.cn" To: bclaise , =?UTF-8?B?S2luZywgRGFuaWVs?= , supa Cc: "ops-ads@ietf.org" , "supa-chairs@ietf.org" References: <65174429B5AF4C45BD0798810EC48E0A942C73B2@EX-0-MB2.lancs.local>, <666784c3-d4df-9fa1-9661-d8e182e2c7da@cisco.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7, 2, 8, 379[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2017062110155138677515@chinatelecom.cn> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart074765005788_=----" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Supa] SUPA Update X-BeenThere: supa@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss SUPA \(Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions\) related issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 02:16:25 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart074765005788_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 aGksIEJlb25pdC4NCg0KU29ycnkgdG8gc2VlIHRoaXMgZW1haWwuIFdlIGRvbuKAmXQgd2FudCB0 byBzZWUgU1VQQSBjbG9zaW5nIHJpZ2h0IG5vdyBhcyB3ZSBqdXN0IGZpbmlzaGVkIG91ciB0cmlh bCBvZiBhZGRyZXNzIG1hbmFnZW1lbnQgZnJhbWV3b3JrIHdoaWNoIG1heSBuZWVkIFNVUEEgcG9s aWN5IHRvIGd1aWRlIHRoZSBwb2xpY3kgcGFydC4NCkFzIGZhciBhcyB3ZSBhcmUgY29uY2VybmVk LCBvdXIgZ29hbCBpcyB0byBkZXZlbG9wIGEgcG9saWN5IG1vZHVsZSB0aGF0IGd1aWRlcyBhZGRy ZXNzIG1hbmFnZW1lbnQuIFRoZSBwb2xpY3kgbW9kdWxlIGRlZmluZXMgdGhlIGNvbnRyb2wgbG9n aWMgKHBvbGljaWVzKSwgYW5kIHNob3VsZCBiZSBzZXBhcmF0ZWQgZnJvbSBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlv biBkZXRhaWxzIHNvIHRoYXQgdGhleSBjYW4gYmUgY29uZmlndXJlZCBvciBhZGp1c3RlZCB0aHJv dWdoIG9wZW4gaW50ZXJmYWNlLg0KIA0KU1VQQSBXRyBkZWZpbmVzIHVuaWZvcm0gZm9ybWF0cyBh 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hi, Beonit.

Sorry to see = this email. We don=E2=80=99t want to see&nbs= p;SUPA closing right now as we just fin= ished our trial of address management framew= ork which may need SUPA policy to guide=  the policy part.
As far as we are&n= bsp;concerned, our goal is to develop a = ;policy module that guides address management.&nb= sp;The policy module defines the control log= ic (policies), and should be separated from&= nbsp;implementation details so that they can = ;be configured or adjusted through open inte= rface.
 
SUPA WG defines uniform formats&nb= sp;and models for policies, serves as the&nb= sp;foundation for policy-based control across dif= ferent system components, and enables automation.=  We believe the model-based method could&nbs= p;potentially avoid manual intervention and reduc= e our OPEX.

Thank you!

Chongfeng

=0A

=0A
xiechf@ctbri.com.cn
=0A
 
F= rom: Benoit Claise
=
Date: 2017-06-15 20:46
Subject: Re: [Supa] S= UPA Update
=0A =0A =0A =0A =0A
Dear all,
= =0A
=0A After the last IETF, I put a calendar reminder on Ju= ne 16th to=0A decide on the next steps for SUPA.
=0A This is = inline with the our previous meeting minutes, so it should=0A not com= e as a surprise.
=0A Granted, this is one day earlier than foresee= n, but the IESG=0A agenda coordination call takes place today, and it= was important=0A from a scheduling point of view to understand if SU= PA would meet.=0A The chairs informed me that no SUPA meeting is requ= ired in Prague.=0A That triggered this discussion, just one day earli= er.
=0A
=0A Our meeting minutes: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/supa/current/msg01612.htm= l
=0A
=0A 
At the SUPA =
WG at IETF 98 (Tuesday, 28 March) we discussed the=0Aprogress of the WG.  =
Benoit (our AD) summed up the situation, pointing=0Aout that our drafts ar=
e not updated very frequently, and that the SUPA=0Amailing list has been v=
ery quiet between meetings.=0AAt the meeting the authors of the SUPA Infor=
mation model and the SUPA=0AData Model drafts said that those drafts shoul=
d be ready for WG Last=0ACall by 1 June, so that they could be sent to IES=
G for approval by=0Aabout 1 July.=0AAfter summing up the pros and cons for=
 SUPA continuing, Benoit=0Aconcluded by saying that the WG will be closed =
at IETF 99 (Prague, 16=0AJuly) unless there is substantive progress on the=
 Information Model=0Aand especially on the Data Model drafts by one month =
before the Prague=0Ameeting.  'Substantive progress' here means seeing com=
ments on and/or=0Areviews of these drafts demonstrating that people - outs=
ide the small=0Agroup of authors - have carefully read the drafts, or bett=
er, that they=0Aare actually using SUPA's Information and Data Models.=0A
=0A I've been watching the list.
=0A =0A Since the last IETF meeting, we received two new drafts ...
= =0A
    draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-info-model-= 03.txt
=0A     draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-= model-03.txt
=0A
=0A ... and some draft reviews:
= =0A
=0A
gunter.wang@ericsson.com=0A on o= n draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framework:=0A Good f= eedback but it seems like only editorial to=0A me.
=0A =
=0A Tony tianxu@chinamobile.com=0A on dr= aft-cheng-supa-applicability:
=0A
Some editorial comments a= nd three technical ones:
=0A

1.  = ;     I wonder the meaning of section 3,=0A the par= t copied from framework draft, may not be needed.

=0A

2.    = ;   I suggest to replace the title of=0A 4.2.2.and 4.2.3= with detailed information instead of=0A writing just   = Example 1 / 2.

=0A <= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;= color:black" lang=3D"EN-US">3.       The writer wrote =E2= =80=9CWe will define=0A "edgeInterface" role and "EnterpriseDom= ain" later in  this=0A note=E2=80=9D but I failed to find = the explanation for these two=0A term.
=0A =
Benoit =3D> it's more like one technical comment,=0A = the last one.
=0A
=0A
=0A Haini= ng Wang: 18901341229@189.cn on=0A draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy= -data-model-03:
=0A
I understand that = the GPIM YANG=0A model provides an example of how to convert IM= to DM (for=0A general policy), and John=E2=80=99s SNMP blockin= g example (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/supa/DWEzaSBK6KB= dsmQ0FE2-eypTzeY)=0A exposes some details. But I am sorry t= hat the whole picture=0A is still not clear to me. It would be = nice if the ECA Data=0A Model part can explain in more details.=
=0A
=0A
=0A March B= lanchet on=0A draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framework:=0A
- larger comment: I=E2=80=99m not sure what to do with th= is=0A document. It looks like a large wish list of features. I gu= ess=0A I=E2=80=99m probably too used to implementation/protocol d= etails. I=0A guess I will wait until to see the actual protocol/y= ang=0A models.
=0A
=0A =0A
=0A Let's analyze the situation:
=0A I don't cons= ider those reviews (btw a single one the DM, none on the=0A IM) as "sub= stantive progress".
=0A I don't see interest from YANG module author= s, ready to reuse the=0A SUPA YANG constructs.
=0A Being a year = late according to the charter milestones, the window of=0A opportunity = to produce reusable work has been closing rapidly.
=0A I believe tha= t SUPA had multiple chances to make it happen, and=0A failed to deliver= .
=0A With this in mind, I don't see how I should conclude anything = else=0A than this WG will be closing at IETF 99.
=0A
=0A R= egards, Benoit (OPS AD)
=0A
=0A
=0A

Dear supa=E2=80=99rs,

=0A &= nbsp;

=0A

We have cancelled our formal meeting in=0A = Prague. This decision was taken based on a proposed plan to=0A fo= cus effort on completing the existing WG items and prepare=0A for= closure of the supa working group sometime between IETF 99=0A an= d 100. A plan that is yet to be approved by Benoit.

=0A =

=  

=0A

During the last working group meeting=0A = Benoit stated:

=0A

 

=0A =

=E2= =80=9Cthe WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague,=0A 16 July) unles= s there is substantive progress on the=0A Information Model and e= specially on the Data Model draft by=0A one month before the Prag= ue meeting.=E2=80=9D=0A

=0A

 =0A

The authors of the Data Model and=0A Information Model I= -Ds did submit new versions but we only=0A received one review. H= owever, Nevil and I are working with the=0A IM and DM authors to = gather reviewers in preparation of Last=0A Call. Essentially, we = are working to prep folks who would be=0A able to review the docu= ments we Last Call, ideally these=0A should be from policy/yang i= mplementers.

=0A

 

=0A

The Framewor= k I-D has also received a=0A review which is positive, and I am i= n the process of reviewing=0A the document myself to also help pr= epare the document for Last=0A Call. Additionally, the Applicabil= ity I-D (a non-working group=0A document) received a review which= is also useful.

=0A

 

=0A

We have= also seen notifications from other=0A SDOs following supa, speci= fically:

=0A

=0A

- ONUG: Investigating = I2NSF combined with=0A the SUPA data model and framework

=0A

- ETSI Experiential Networked Intelligence=0A (ENI):= New initiative defining context aware networking=0A systems, SUP= A was identified as a key building block

=0A

- MEF Open L= ifecycle Service Orchestrator=0A (LSO): Using SUPA between functi= onal components=0A

=0A

 

=0A=

However, the indication from ONUG, ETSI and=0A MEF does not m= aterially change the situation of SUPA but it=0A does demonstrate= wider interest in our work, and at least some=0A responsibility = for supa/IETF to complete it (if possible). If=0A you are aware o= f near-term implementations now is the time to=0A highlight them.=

=0A

 

=0A

Again, we felt we did n= ot need a WG meeting=0A in Prague to progress the working group I= -Ds, and given the=0A IETF agenda coordination call (is today) we= had to cancel the=0A supa WG session request ASAP, and unfortuna= tely before we had=0A a chance to communicate the current situati= on to the rest of=0A the working group. Apologies for any surpris= e when you saw the=0A cancellation notification, and the lack of = opportunity for=0A wider discussion.=0A

= =0A

 

=0A

As mentioned our proposed plan has been= =0A submitted to Benoit and is yet to be approved, therefore we= =0A will wait for his thoughts and ultimate decision.=0A =

=0A

 

=0A

The SUPA Chairs would s= incerely like to=0A thank everyone for their participation and es= pecially the=0A authors of I-Ds for their efforts.=0A

=0A

 

=0A

BR, Nevil and Dan.

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A =0A
=
=0A ------=_001_NextPart074765005788_=------ From nobody Wed Jun 21 22:58:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: supa@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A4C1271FD; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 22:58:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RG7CCpq5LZLV; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 22:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F56D126DCA; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 22:58:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=31522; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1498111114; x=1499320714; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=TGGzVHFijeeVF08hW4HQgJoycK2uqFbpoIeekkW4VDA=; b=hg4i2HIwuoiyuCpqDMq+OW0t9BMqKHFRC2RP/qioPufKbYAgqf6LROfJ iyeV9mGjPn93gmE5efACM7j/4mS0pytJfesJu1dZIMmVYxtWUr0wZVPXX T+L97mUevLxtxIwT2ZW6Zfv9oKbo3ZWkE/LyWgirONpKMIWClUXtDRml7 U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CNAADFW0tZ/xbLJq1dGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBgm88gQ+BDY4Fc5Brc4xDiEKCESEBCoV4AoM2GAECAQEBAQEBAWs?= =?us-ascii?q?ohRgBAQEBAwEBbAUGEAsYIAcHJwIdEQYNBgIBAYoQAxUQrVUqhwkEhC8BAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEdhFeCFmh4K4JFNIRNAQGGDwWJQQoHCYhDjEWHM4d?= =?us-ascii?q?ihE2CCVaEcoNLI4ZQiSWDJ4hKDxA4gQowIQgbFR8qhQ0cgWg+NgGHHQQLF4IZA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.39,372,1493683200"; d="scan'208,217";a="652756822" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 22 Jun 2017 05:58:28 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.38] (ams-bclaise-nitro5.cisco.com [10.55.221.38]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v5M5wShU015789; Thu, 22 Jun 2017 05:58:28 GMT To: "Diego R. Lopez" Cc: "King, Daniel" , SUPA list , "ops-ads@ietf.org" , "supa-chairs@ietf.org" References: <65174429B5AF4C45BD0798810EC48E0A942C73B2@EX-0-MB2.lancs.local> <666784c3-d4df-9fa1-9661-d8e182e2c7da@cisco.com> <3790BAEB-0E40-413B-BD84-60EE2E9CF483@telefonica.com> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 07:58:26 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3790BAEB-0E40-413B-BD84-60EE2E9CF483@telefonica.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------37AA79EB993B2EF9539C4867" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Supa] SUPA Update X-BeenThere: supa@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "This list is to discuss SUPA \(Simplified Use of Policy Abstractions\) related issues." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2017 05:58:39 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------37AA79EB993B2EF9539C4867 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Diego, Can you expand on the re-usability aspects. What is being reused? the information model, the data model, something else? I hope more than the concepts. What are you, yourself, reusing? Regards, Benoit > Hi Benoit, > > While I cannot talk for YANG module authors, and it is true that the > WG has a significant delay in its deliverables, I ‘d like to stress > that SUPA has produced reusable work that is being used elsewhere, and > a closing of the group before it finishes its commitments would damage > these other works. I am directly involved in the I2NSF WG (that is > progressing quite well in my opinion), and in several collaborative > European projects related with 5G and security, including a number of > network operators that are experimenting with SUPA-based policy > statements. And I am aware of the ONUG interest as well, though not > being involved I cannot detail what they are targeting now. > > So I would ask you to reconsider the decision of closing SUPA at IETF 99. > > Be goode, > >> On 15 Jun 2017, at 14:46 , Benoit Claise > > wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> After the last IETF, I put a calendar reminder on June 16th to decide >> on the next steps for SUPA. >> This is inline with the our previous meeting minutes, so it should >> not come as a surprise. >> Granted, this is one day earlier than foreseen, but the IESG agenda >> coordination call takes place today, and it was important from a >> scheduling point of view to understand if SUPA would meet. The chairs >> informed me that no SUPA meeting is required in Prague. That >> triggered this discussion, just one day earlier. >> >> Our meeting minutes: >> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/supa/current/msg01612.html >> >> At the SUPA WG at IETF 98 (Tuesday, 28 March) we discussed the >> progress of the WG. Benoit (our AD) summed up the situation, pointing >> out that our drafts are not updated very frequently, and that the SUPA >> mailing list has been very quiet between meetings. >> >> At the meeting the authors of the SUPA Information model and the SUPA >> Data Model drafts said that those drafts should be ready for WG Last >> Call by 1 June, so that they could be sent to IESG for approval by >> about 1 July. >> >> After summing up the pros and cons for SUPA continuing, Benoit >> concluded by saying that the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16 >> July) unless there is substantive progress on the Information Model >> and especially on the Data Model drafts by one month before the Prague >> meeting. 'Substantive progress' here means seeing comments on and/or >> reviews of these drafts demonstrating that people - outside the small >> group of authors - have carefully read the drafts, or better, that they >> are actually using SUPA's Information and Data Models. >> >> I've been watching the list. >> Since the last IETF meeting, we received two new drafts ... >> >> draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-info-model-03.txt >> draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-03.txt >> >> ... and some draft reviews: >> >> gunter.wang@ericsson.com on on >> draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framework: >> >> Good feedback but it seems like only editorial to me. >> >> Tony tianxu@chinamobile.com on draft-cheng-supa-applicability: >> >> Some editorial comments and three technical ones: >> >> 1. I wonder the meaning of section 3, the part >> copied from framework draft, may not be needed. >> >> 2. I suggest to replace the title of 4.2.2.and >> 4.2.3 with detailed information instead of writing just >> Example 1 / 2. >> >> 3. The writer wrote “We will define "edgeInterface" >> role and "EnterpriseDomain" later in this note” but I >> failed to find the explanation for these two term. >> >> Benoit => it's more like one technical comment, the last one. >> >> >> Haining Wang: 18901341229@189.cn on >> draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-03: >> >> I understand that the GPIM YANG model provides an example >> of how to convert IM to DM (for general policy), and >> John’s SNMP blocking example >> (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/supa/DWEzaSBK6KBdsmQ0FE2-eypTzeY) >> exposes some details. But I am sorry that the whole >> picture is still not clear to me. It would be nice if the >> ECA Data Model part can explain in more details. >> >> March Blanchet on >> draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framework: >> >> - larger comment: I’m not sure what to do with this >> document. It looks like a large wish list of features. I >> guess I’m probably too used to implementation/protocol >> details. I guess I will wait until to see the actual >> protocol/yang models. >> >> >> Let's analyze the situation: >> I don't consider those reviews (btw a single one the DM, none on the >> IM) as "substantive progress". >> I don't see interest from YANG module authors, ready to reuse the >> SUPA YANG constructs. >> Being a year late according to the charter milestones, the window of >> opportunity to produce reusable work has been closing rapidly. >> I believe that SUPA had multiple chances to make it happen, and >> failed to deliver. >> With this in mind, I don't see how I should conclude anything else >> than this WG will be closing at IETF 99. >> >> Regards, Benoit (OPS AD) >>> >>> Dear supa’rs, >>> >>> We have cancelled our formal meeting in Prague. This decision was >>> taken based on a proposed plan to focus effort on completing the >>> existing WG items and prepare for closure of the supa working group >>> sometime between IETF 99 and 100. A plan that is yet to be approved >>> by Benoit. >>> >>> During the last working group meeting Benoit stated: >>> >>> “the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16 July) unless there is >>> substantive progress on the Information Model and especially on the >>> Data Model draft by one month before the Prague meeting.” >>> >>> The authors of the Data Model and Information Model I-Ds did submit >>> new versions but we only received one review. However, Nevil and I >>> are working with the IM and DM authors to gather reviewers in >>> preparation of Last Call. Essentially, we are working to prep folks >>> who would be able to review the documents we Last Call, ideally >>> these should be from policy/yang implementers. >>> >>> The Framework I-D has also received a review which is positive, and >>> I am in the process of reviewing the document myself to also help >>> prepare the document for Last Call. Additionally, the Applicability >>> I-D (a non-working group document) received a review which is also >>> useful. >>> >>> We have also seen notifications from other SDOs following supa, >>> specifically: >>> >>> - ONUG: Investigating I2NSF combined with the SUPA data model and >>> framework >>> >>> - ETSI Experiential Networked Intelligence (ENI): New initiative >>> defining context aware networking systems, SUPA was identified as a >>> key building block >>> >>> - MEF Open Lifecycle Service Orchestrator (LSO): Using SUPA between >>> functional components >>> >>> However, the indication from ONUG, ETSI and MEF does not materially >>> change the situation of SUPA but it does demonstrate wider interest >>> in our work, and at least some responsibility for supa/IETF to >>> complete it (if possible). If you are aware of near-term >>> implementations now is the time to highlight them. >>> >>> Again, we felt we did not need a WG meeting in Prague to progress >>> the working group I-Ds, and given the IETF agenda coordination call >>> (is today) we had to cancel the supa WG session request ASAP, and >>> unfortunately before we had a chance to communicate the current >>> situation to the rest of the working group. Apologies for any >>> surprise when you saw the cancellation notification, and the lack of >>> opportunity for wider discussion. >>> >>> As mentioned our proposed plan has been submitted to Benoit and is >>> yet to be approved, therefore we will wait for his thoughts and >>> ultimate decision. >>> >>> The SUPA Chairs would sincerely like to thank everyone for their >>> participation and especially the authors of I-Ds for their efforts. >>> >>> BR, Nevil and Dan. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SUPA mailing list >> SUPA@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa > > -- > "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno" > > Dr Diego R. Lopez > Telefonica I+D > http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/ > > e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com > Tel: +34 913 129 041 > Mobile: +34 682 051 091 > ---------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su > destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial y > es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es > usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, > utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización puede estar > prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este > mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por > esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. > > The information contained in this transmission is privileged and > confidential information intended only for the use of the individual > or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, > distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. > If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it. > Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this > communication in error and then delete it. > > Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu > destinatário, pode conter informação privilegiada ou confidencial e é > para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se não é vossa > senhoria o destinatário indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, > utilização, divulgação e/ou cópia sem autorização pode estar proibida > em virtude da legislação vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, > rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e > proceda a sua destruição --------------37AA79EB993B2EF9539C4867 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Diego,

Can you expand on the re-usability aspects.
What is being reused? the information model, the data model, something else? I hope more than the concepts.
What are you, yourself, reusing?

Regards, Benoit
Hi Benoit,

While I cannot talk for YANG module authors, and it is true that the WG has a significant delay in its deliverables, I ‘d like to stress that SUPA has produced reusable work that is being used elsewhere, and a closing of the group before it finishes its commitments would damage these other works. I am directly involved in the I2NSF WG (that is progressing quite well in my opinion), and in several collaborative European projects related with 5G and security, including a number of network operators that are experimenting with SUPA-based policy statements. And I am aware of the ONUG interest as well, though not being involved I cannot detail what they are targeting now.

So I would ask you to reconsider the decision of closing SUPA at IETF 99.

Be goode,

On 15 Jun 2017, at 14:46 , Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> wrote:

Dear all,

After the last IETF, I put a calendar reminder on June 16th to decide on the next steps for SUPA.
This is inline with the our previous meeting minutes, so it should not come as a surprise.
Granted, this is one day earlier than foreseen, but the IESG agenda coordination call takes place today, and it was important from a scheduling point of view to understand if SUPA would meet. The chairs informed me that no SUPA meeting is required in Prague. That triggered this discussion, just one day earlier.

Our meeting minutes: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/supa/current/msg01612.html
At the SUPA WG at IETF 98 (Tuesday, 28 March) we discussed the
progress of the WG.  Benoit (our AD) summed up the situation, pointing
out that our drafts are not updated very frequently, and that the SUPA
mailing list has been very quiet between meetings.

At the meeting the authors of the SUPA Information model and the SUPA
Data Model drafts said that those drafts should be ready for WG Last
Call by 1 June, so that they could be sent to IESG for approval by
about 1 July.

After summing up the pros and cons for SUPA continuing, Benoit
concluded by saying that the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16
July) unless there is substantive progress on the Information Model
and especially on the Data Model drafts by one month before the Prague
meeting.  'Substantive progress' here means seeing comments on and/or
reviews of these drafts demonstrating that people - outside the small
group of authors - have carefully read the drafts, or better, that they
are actually using SUPA's Information and Data Models.
I've been watching the list.
Since the last IETF meeting, we received two new drafts ...
    draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-info-model-03.txt
    draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-03.txt
... and some draft reviews:
gunter.wang@ericsson.com on on draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framework:
Good feedback but it seems like only editorial to me.
Tony tianxu@chinamobile.com on draft-cheng-supa-applicability:
Some editorial comments and three technical ones:

1.       I wonder the meaning of section 3, the part copied from framework draft, may not be needed.

2.       I suggest to replace the title of 4.2.2.and 4.2.3 with detailed information instead of writing just   Example 1 / 2.

3.       The writer wrote “We will define "edgeInterface" role and "EnterpriseDomain" later in  this note” but I failed to find the explanation for these two term.
Benoit => it's more like one technical comment, the last one.

Haining Wang: 18901341229@189.cn on draft-ietf-supa-generic-policy-data-model-03:
I understand that the GPIM YANG model provides an example of how to convert IM to DM (for general policy), and John’s SNMP blocking example (https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/supa/DWEzaSBK6KBdsmQ0FE2-eypTzeY) exposes some details. But I am sorry that the whole picture is still not clear to me. It would be nice if the ECA Data Model part can explain in more details.

March Blanchet on draft-ietf-supa-policy-based-management-framework:
- larger comment: I’m not sure what to do with this document. It looks like a large wish list of features. I guess I’m probably too used to implementation/protocol details. I guess I will wait until to see the actual protocol/yang models.

Let's analyze the situation:
I don't consider those reviews (btw a single one the DM, none on the IM) as "substantive progress".
I don't see interest from YANG module authors, ready to reuse the SUPA YANG constructs.
Being a year late according to the charter milestones, the window of opportunity to produce reusable work has been closing rapidly.
I believe that SUPA had multiple chances to make it happen, and failed to deliver.
With this in mind, I don't see how I should conclude anything else than this WG will be closing at IETF 99.

Regards, Benoit (OPS AD)

Dear supa’rs,

 

We have cancelled our formal meeting in Prague. This decision was taken based on a proposed plan to focus effort on completing the existing WG items and prepare for closure of the supa working group sometime between IETF 99 and 100. A plan that is yet to be approved by Benoit.

 

During the last working group meeting Benoit stated:

 

“the WG will be closed at IETF 99 (Prague, 16 July) unless there is substantive progress on the Information Model and especially on the Data Model draft by one month before the Prague meeting.”

 

The authors of the Data Model and Information Model I-Ds did submit new versions but we only received one review. However, Nevil and I are working with the IM and DM authors to gather reviewers in preparation of Last Call. Essentially, we are working to prep folks who would be able to review the documents we Last Call, ideally these should be from policy/yang implementers.

 

The Framework I-D has also received a review which is positive, and I am in the process of reviewing the document myself to also help prepare the document for Last Call. Additionally, the Applicability I-D (a non-working group document) received a review which is also useful.

 

We have also seen notifications from other SDOs following supa, specifically:

- ONUG: Investigating I2NSF combined with the SUPA data model and framework

- ETSI Experiential Networked Intelligence (ENI): New initiative defining context aware networking systems, SUPA was identified as a key building block

- MEF Open Lifecycle Service Orchestrator (LSO): Using SUPA between functional components

 

However, the indication from ONUG, ETSI and MEF does not materially change the situation of SUPA but it does demonstrate wider interest in our work, and at least some responsibility for supa/IETF to complete it (if possible). If you are aware of near-term implementations now is the time to highlight them.

 

Again, we felt we did not need a WG meeting in Prague to progress the working group I-Ds, and given the IETF agenda coordination call (is today) we had to cancel the supa WG session request ASAP, and unfortunately before we had a chance to communicate the current situation to the rest of the working group. Apologies for any surprise when you saw the cancellation notification, and the lack of opportunity for wider discussion.

 

As mentioned our proposed plan has been submitted to Benoit and is yet to be approved, therefore we will wait for his thoughts and ultimate decision.

 

The SUPA Chairs would sincerely like to thank everyone for their participation and especially the authors of I-Ds for their efforts.

 

BR, Nevil and Dan.


_______________________________________________
SUPA mailing list
SUPA@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa

--
"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D
http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/

e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com
Tel:    +34 913 129 041
Mobile: +34 682 051 091
----------------------------------



Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción.

The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error and then delete it.

Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinatário, pode conter informação privilegiada ou confidencial e é para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se não é vossa senhoria o destinatário indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utilização, divulgação e/ou cópia sem autorização pode estar proibida em virtude da legislação vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destruição

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