From nobody Mon Jan 4 13:44:06 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: taps@ietf.org Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 763671AC3CE; Mon, 4 Jan 2016 13:38:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.11.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160104213813.14269.2128.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2016 13:38:13 -0800 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 04 Jan 2016 13:44:05 -0800 Cc: falk-ietf@dgftech.com, taps-chairs@ietf.org, spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com, taps@ietf.org Subject: [Taps] taps - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 95 X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2016 21:38:13 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Aaron Falk, a Chair of the taps working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Transport Services Area Name: Transport Area Session Requester: Aaron Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 80 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: apparea appsawg tsvarea aqm rmcat ippm tsvwg iccrg tcpm Second Priority: webpush tcpinc ppsp nvo3 mptcp icnrg httpbis irtfopen Third Priority: mmusic tram Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Jan 4 13:48:26 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 495FD1AC3D5 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2016 13:48:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DavcHyuArtgU for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2016 13:48:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yk0-x233.google.com (mail-yk0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BC061AC3C3 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 2016 13:48:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yk0-x233.google.com with SMTP id x67so261917585ykd.2 for ; Mon, 04 Jan 2016 13:48:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=fI5O1yCu4GEc/84Z9lxDGBhc2w8l+YxgJG5Y166GDb8=; b=boMfXC/E2qtPPQhDVase5FZDaBu8paJyQFsBUs+1ueUOpQtqxNM1qNscFXbt7ouUtG 6Qeu174iwq1YiImne5NtZwL8HICZJYzgX3ibBKY36o+R1KNafHNUhK8F82eDPm3QksdQ guk4I4ePp8EeDvC8qp2b/eue7qUYV4onruiHPvBwUWwYf+g2bBg8bIzasShAcSyw3N5a UcMxbH/NBKUZkqKPCFJLWKUNkfs3XEI0+16yi9810OX6dwy8IVV64aIYzltXEzwZUKXf 9km2mIAA7yS0x1mOUGNGGviFBERfRYDbmK7zJC+n8bsVLnb/e0wcOQ+EYsB/pTp6K/fp be0w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.129.95.138 with SMTP id t132mr63299922ywb.61.1451944102855; Mon, 04 Jan 2016 13:48:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.83.2 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Jan 2016 13:48:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 16:48:22 -0500 Message-ID: From: Aaron Falk To: "taps@ietf.org" , Spencer Dawkins Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11470a5a7c0d1c0528891425 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Taps] TAPS WGLC: draft-ietf-taps-transports-08 - ends Dec 31 X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2016 21:48:25 -0000 --001a11470a5a7c0d1c0528891425 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 WGLC is closed. We received a couple of reviews and encouragements to publish. Given that, combined with the supportive meeting discussion, my assessment is that this document is approved by the working group. --aaron On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Aaron Falk wrote: > This email announces a TAPS Working Group Last Call (WGLC) on: > > Services provided by IETF transport protocols and congestion > control mechanisms > draft-ietf-taps-transports-08.txt > > > Due to the timing (many people take time off during the December > holidays), this WGLC will run for slightly longer than usual - it will be > for just over 3 weeks, ending at midnight US Eastern (daylight) Time on > Thursday, December 31st. Comments should be sent to the taps@ietf.org > list, although purely editorial comments may be sent directly to the > authors (draft-ietf-taps-transports@ietf.org). > > We're looking for at least a couple more reviews during WGLC - please > email the chair (aaron.falk@gmail.com) if you're interested and willing > to review this draft (otherwise, we'll have to go "beat the bushes" for > reviewers). > > Thanks, > > --aaron > --001a11470a5a7c0d1c0528891425 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
WGLC is closed.=C2=A0 We received a couple of reviews and = encouragements to publish.=C2=A0 Given that, combined with the supportive m= eeting discussion, my assessment is that this document is approved by the w= orking group.

--aaron

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Aaron Fa= lk <aaron.falk@gmail.com> wrote:
This email anno= unces a=C2=A0TAPS=C2=A0Working Group Last Call (WGLC) on:<= br style=3D"font-size:12.8px">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0Services provided by IETF transport protocols and congesti= on control mechanisms
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0draft-ietf-taps-transports-08.txt

Due to the timi= ng (many people take time off during the December holidays), this=C2=A0WGLC=C2=A0will=C2=A0run for slight= ly longer than usual - it will be for just over 3 weeks, ending at=C2=A0midnight US Eastern (daylight) Time on= Thursday, December 31st.=C2=A0 Com= ments should be sent to the=C2=A0taps@ietf.org=C2=A0list,=C2=A0although purely editorial comments may be sent directly to the = authors (draft-ietf-taps-transports@ietf.org).

= We're looking for at least a couple more=C2=A0reviews during=C2=A0= WGLC=C2=A0- please email the chair = (aaron.falk@gmail= .com) if=C2=A0you're interested and willing to review this dra= ft (otherwise, we'll have=C2=A0= to go "beat the bushes" for reviewers).

Thanks,=C2=A0

--aaron

--001a11470a5a7c0d1c0528891425-- From nobody Wed Jan 6 14:14:04 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A97331A1ABB for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 14:14:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t5SvxMYzsTE9 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 14:14:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x22f.google.com (mail-qk0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08D1B1A1A93 for ; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 14:14:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id q19so109715999qke.3 for ; Wed, 06 Jan 2016 14:13:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=GmT3Zo3e+d4zpXt8oHEtNuteqYlxepC9BfgH1M1v0/U=; b=vBnpHhH50lmbOMeD+EQ+HNHh/RcxuOo35t30KPPw/MEaRKtq2TRrz/hDzrJZynYlAc 0rFKKAa1YXGIb4Yp4sOFXky9VA0ZXmFNcT/xX9EqX2uuXg4u9IfFFHM2L3wnBl/J+S/L dz3ZWHB7V4rZ6+K5tPMwKFyRnvxUlo6bKa/s/n9VEXw82UmRbxjJE6p1IPHfIhT88tA2 YqtqIhgqGIznx4GMauQpJHPZc1/cMVD0mblSfvxaaaP/19xU7NML2FOfZuH47EvCQY7X d6ggdEvs6BIBwJZebAx8mNZrAjPtMWUqYhS+Up4MPp4HVK/0P5/FamUv3wix7Zcnkbbm i8ig== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.129.71.5 with SMTP id u5mr85741572ywa.91.1452118439140; Wed, 06 Jan 2016 14:13:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.83.2 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Jan 2016 14:13:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 17:13:59 -0500 Message-ID: From: Aaron Falk To: Michael Welzl , " Khademi" , Michael Tuexen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114d7196bca5ee0528b1ab63 Archived-At: Cc: "taps@ietf.org" Subject: [Taps] plans for draft-welzl-taps-transports? X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2016 22:14:02 -0000 --001a114d7196bca5ee0528b1ab63 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Michael, et al- Now that we've settled the first doc, what is the plan for completing your proposed approach (which I'll refer to as doc 1b)? As a strawman, let me suggest that you extend the 1b draft to include the additional protocols to be included and the authors of the analogous sections from doc 1 perform the 3 pass analysis, perhaps with some assistance from you and your co-authors. I'm open to alternative proposals but would like to figure out where we are going while the year is still fresh and uncluttered. :) An initial step is to submit the draft as a wg doc. Since just substituting "ietf' for "welzl" will cause the draftstring to collide with doc 1, I suggest something like draft-ietf-taps-3pass. --aaron --001a114d7196bca5ee0528b1ab63 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Michael, et al-

Now that we've s= ettled the first doc, what is the plan for completing your proposed approac= h (which I'll refer to as doc 1b)?=C2=A0 As a strawman, let me suggest = that you extend the 1b draft to include the additional protocols to be incl= uded and the authors of the analogous sections from doc 1 perform the 3 pas= s analysis, perhaps with some assistance from you and your co-authors.=C2= =A0 I'm open to alternative proposals but would like to figure out wher= e we are going while the year is still fresh and uncluttered. :)
=
An initial step is to submit the draft as a wg doc.=C2=A0 Si= nce just substituting "ietf' for "welzl" will cause the = draftstring to collide with doc 1, I suggest something like draft-ietf-taps= -3pass.

--aaron
--001a114d7196bca5ee0528b1ab63-- From nobody Thu Jan 7 02:55:20 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 287F01A88B9 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2016 02:55:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0rnDcKwQ7sBa for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2016 02:55:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out5.uio.no (mail-out5.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:10::17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E3901A88B8 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2016 02:55:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-mx3.uio.no ([129.240.10.44]) by mail-out5.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1aH8Dp-00060b-B0; Thu, 07 Jan 2016 11:55:13 +0100 Received: from boomerang.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.135]) by mail-mx3.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) user michawe (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1aH8Do-0005hS-Rl; Thu, 07 Jan 2016 11:55:13 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Michael Welzl In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 11:55:11 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5383E27B-AB4E-4F3C-8ECE-C47F02EB0698@ifi.uio.no> References: To: Aaron Falk X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Ratelimit-Test: rcpts/h 4 msgs/h 1 sum rcpts/h 6 sum msgs/h 2 total rcpts 36849 max rcpts/h 54 ratelimit 0 X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-6.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.048, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: AF4492BF7906015D86E070FEA3AC802883D18CE6 X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.68.135 spam_score: -59 maxlevel 80 minaction 1 bait 0 mail/h: 1 total 8836 max/h 17 blacklist 0 greylist 1 ratelimit 0 Archived-At: Cc: Michael Tuexen , " Khademi" , "taps@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Taps] plans for draft-welzl-taps-transports? X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2016 10:55:18 -0000 Aaron, all, In fact we've been working on an update, which I should be able to post = VERY soon - sorry for keeping you in the dark while this takes a little = longer than expected! More below: > On 06 Jan 2016, at 23:13, Aaron Falk wrote: >=20 > Hi Michael, et al- >=20 > Now that we've settled the first doc, what is the plan for completing = your proposed approach (which I'll refer to as doc 1b)? As a strawman, = let me suggest that you extend the 1b draft to include the additional = protocols to be included and the authors of the analogous sections from = doc 1 perform the 3 pass analysis, perhaps with some assistance from you = and your co-authors. I'm open to alternative proposals but would like = to figure out where we are going while the year is still fresh and = uncluttered. :) I agree about involving the folks from doc 1 if they're willing - but I = don't think we need to be strict about this mapping: whoever volunteers = should be welcome, I think. That's because the workload is probably much = higher for most protocols, and overall it's quite a different task, so = let's see... The update that I'll post soon is almost ready now, it contains: > >>> - addressing the many comments by Gorry > >>> - addressing the comments by Karen on the TAPS list > >>> - fixing the language chaos, to make use of one terminology that's = in line with the other TAPS document > >>> - an appendix explaining how to contribute > >>> - many other fixes For the version following this, we have Gorry up for UDP and Christoph = Paasch has already volunteered for MPTCP. > An initial step is to submit the draft as a wg doc. Since just = substituting "ietf' for "welzl" will cause the draftstring to collide = with doc 1, I suggest something like draft-ietf-taps-3pass. I like how Stein put it in his presentation in Yokohama: = draft-ietf-taps-transports explains what transport service features = exist, whereas draft-welzl-taps-transports explains how to use them. Hence I suggest: draft-ietf-taps-transport-usage ... and this will already be the updated version, coming VERY soon = (maybe even today or tomorrow). Ok? Cheers, Michael From nobody Thu Jan 7 11:50:51 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B7661AC3B5 for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2016 11:50:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QKYghcXVTUuQ for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2016 11:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yk0-x22c.google.com (mail-yk0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D21921A90AA for ; Thu, 7 Jan 2016 11:50:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yk0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id v14so247368267ykd.3 for ; Thu, 07 Jan 2016 11:50:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=HIwWlfLc8DJ0Ptx6Xy13Q09OSIlO05d5sMuJ0hPm/aU=; b=FpM00BKTbudJEEctZ+6rbncbA8oYBxuzMWKAI36cUuY/KTRFJzbwFdi+8TcH5fBn3d r+lMPC8P8riztbBV+/+cLpbR7/T2D5JVL5XGGKapJ9Eq1/Ob6B+pjQJjTdN8RiJVbV2a YQOXOJjFMQj0ReUOcqlXrVfZaMyGsa/LLU+aMMRqJlhUpcX29OY10ryy3AgFwMeMjQ/P znMjyKs9RW8mTv1FPyaYKLLj7QB3GH1+mIensI0wFt+OjbQISKeS2TZ/sWT6W82yWtiK a9osGcM1MWH5yog6sWhOlH5UMW2K9xdhV+k+kGitS0mLlYRXEGiDUg9hfwJcwEZH4AGK XsfA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.129.125.87 with SMTP id y84mr70151130ywc.261.1452196248164; Thu, 07 Jan 2016 11:50:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.83.2 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Jan 2016 11:50:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5383E27B-AB4E-4F3C-8ECE-C47F02EB0698@ifi.uio.no> References: <5383E27B-AB4E-4F3C-8ECE-C47F02EB0698@ifi.uio.no> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2016 14:50:48 -0500 Message-ID: From: Aaron Falk To: Michael Welzl Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114931448423bd0528c3c965 Archived-At: Cc: Michael Tuexen , " Khademi" , "taps@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Taps] plans for draft-welzl-taps-transports? X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jan 2016 19:50:50 -0000 --001a114931448423bd0528c3c965 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 5:55 AM, Michael Welzl wrote: > In fact we've been working on an update, which I should be able to post > VERY soon - sorry for keeping you in the dark while this takes a little > longer than expected! > Great! An initial step is to submit the draft as a wg doc. Since just >> substituting "ietf' for "welzl" will cause the draftstring to collide with >> doc 1, I suggest something like draft-ietf-taps-3pass. > > > I like how Stein put it in his presentation in Yokohama: > draft-ietf-taps-transports explains what transport service features exist, > whereas draft-welzl-taps-transports explains how to use them. > Hence I suggest: draft-ietf-taps-transport-usage > > Works for me. > ... and this will already be the updated version, coming VERY soon (maybe > even today or tomorrow). Ok? > Terrific! --aaron --001a114931448423bd0528c3c965 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= hu, Jan 7, 2016 at 5:55 AM, Michael Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no> wrote:
In fact we've been working= on an update, which I should be able to post VERY soon - sorry for keeping= you in the dark while this takes a little longer than expected!

Great!

An initial step is to submit the= draft as a wg doc.=C2=A0 Since just substituting "ietf' for "= ;welzl" will cause the draftstring to collide with doc 1, I suggest so= mething like draft-ietf-taps-3pass.

I like how Stein put it in his presentation in Yokohama: draft-ietf-= taps-transports explains what transport service features exist, whereas dra= ft-welzl-taps-transports explains how to use them.
Hence I suggest: draft-ietf-taps-transport-usage


Works for me.
=C2=A0
... and this will already be the updated version, coming VERY soon (maybe e= ven today or tomorrow). Ok?

Terrific!

--aaron
--001a114931448423bd0528c3c965-- From nobody Fri Jan 8 11:18:36 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: taps@ietf.org Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA6F61B2B19; Fri, 8 Jan 2016 11:18:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.11.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160108191827.14272.97043.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 11:18:27 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: taps@ietf.org Subject: [Taps] I-D Action: draft-ietf-taps-transports-usage-00.txt X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 19:18:28 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Transport Services Working Group of the IETF. Title : On the Usage of Transport Service Features Provided by IETF Transport Protocols Authors : Michael Welzl Michael Tuexen Naeem Khademi Filename : draft-ietf-taps-transports-usage-00.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2016-01-08 Abstract: This document describes how transport protocols expose services to applications and how an application can configure and use the features of a transport service. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-taps-transports-usage/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-taps-transports-usage-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jan 11 10:17:37 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB2951A8F4B; Mon, 11 Jan 2016 10:17:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K38wj1gAOv4Q; Mon, 11 Jan 2016 10:17:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out5.uio.no (mail-out5.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:10::17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C33B1A8F48; Mon, 11 Jan 2016 10:17:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-mx3.uio.no ([129.240.10.44]) by mail-out5.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1aIh24-0004ZK-4i; Mon, 11 Jan 2016 19:17:32 +0100 Received: from mail-ex02.exprod.uio.no ([129.240.52.5]) by mail-mx3.uio.no with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1aIh23-0007jB-LH; Mon, 11 Jan 2016 19:17:32 +0100 Received: from mail-ex01.exprod.uio.no (2001:700:100:52::4) by mail-ex02.exprod.uio.no (2001:700:100:52::5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1130.7; Mon, 11 Jan 2016 19:17:31 +0100 Received: from mail-ex01.exprod.uio.no ([fe80::5c5b:6cfb:485b:6990]) by mail-ex01.exprod.uio.no ([fe80::5c5b:6cfb:485b:6990%20]) with mapi id 15.00.1130.005; Mon, 11 Jan 2016 19:17:31 +0100 From: Naeem Khademi To: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Taps] I-D Action: draft-ietf-taps-transports-usage-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHRSklsOEN9d0/QSk267SScEdrajZ72k1WA Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 18:17:31 +0000 Message-ID: <905F3CA6-5742-4CD9-A1A5-ED9CDACDA4CF@ifi.uio.no> References: <20160108191827.14272.97043.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20160108191827.14272.97043.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, nb-NO, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [129.240.169.51] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <068F858E05E4804EBA8C6D5E4F620688@mail.uio.no> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Ratelimit-Test: rcpts/h 6 msgs/h 4 sum rcpts/h 7 sum msgs/h 4 total rcpts 4991 max rcpts/h 50 ratelimit 0 X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-6.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.048, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: 3797F3C478DC4638C515CA221B4CC6685583FC85 X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.52.5 spam_score: -59 maxlevel 80 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 24 total 1248283 max/h 1401 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 X-UiOonly: 702CC4067E2B4C4FF48534D0359F92B40999D1F8 Archived-At: Cc: "taps@ietf.org" , "i-d-announce@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Taps] I-D Action: draft-ietf-taps-transports-usage-00.txt X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 18:17:37 -0000 On behalf of the authors, we welcome any volunteers willing to contribute t= o this draft by incorporating the protocols agreed on during TAPS WG meetin= g in Yokohama.=20 Cheers, Naeem > On Jan 8, 2016, at 8:18 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. > This draft is a work item of the Transport Services Working Group of the = IETF. >=20 > Title : On the Usage of Transport Service Features Provi= ded by IETF Transport Protocols > Authors : Michael Welzl > Michael Tuexen > Naeem Khademi > Filename : draft-ietf-taps-transports-usage-00.txt > Pages : 27 > Date : 2016-01-08 >=20 > Abstract: > This document describes how transport protocols expose services to > applications and how an application can configure and use the > features of a transport service. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-taps-transports-usage/ >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-taps-transports-usage-00 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Taps mailing list > Taps@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/taps From nobody Fri Jan 29 06:32:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: taps@ietf.org Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B64591A6EDC; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 06:32:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.13.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160129143213.12517.14512.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 06:32:13 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: taps@ietf.org Subject: [Taps] I-D Action: draft-ietf-taps-transports-09.txt X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:32:13 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Transport Services Working Group of the IETF. Title : Services provided by IETF transport protocols and congestion control mechanisms Authors : Godred Fairhurst Brian Trammell Mirja Kuehlewind Filename : draft-ietf-taps-transports-09.txt Pages : 54 Date : 2016-01-29 Abstract: This document describes, surveys, classifies and compares the protocol mechanisms provided by existing IETF protocols, as background for determining a common set of transport services. It examines the Transmission Control Protocol (TCP), Multipath TCP, the Stream Control Transmission Protocol (SCTP), the User Datagram Protocol (UDP), UDP-Lite, the Datagram Congestion Control Protocol (DCCP), the Internet Control Message Protocol (ICMP), the Realtime Transport Protocol (RTP), File Delivery over Unidirectional Transport/Asynchronous Layered Coding Reliable Multicast (FLUTE/ALC), and NACK-Oriented Reliable Multicast (NORM), Transport Layer Security (TLS), Datagram TLS (DTLS), and the Hypertext Transport Protocol (HTTP) when used as a pseudotransport. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-taps-transports/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-taps-transports-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-taps-transports-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Jan 29 08:18:46 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8991B29C6 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 08:18:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KpA6BB-qkHAn for ; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 08:18:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yk0-x231.google.com (mail-yk0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5258F1B3127 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 08:18:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yk0-x231.google.com with SMTP id k129so74642773yke.0 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 08:18:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=OnGdH3VA3cLfOEMjCdiw2KvCTpRQSUuVcFvHkymclWU=; b=u+vKB0sxNTU/csaRkaH8/Y7TSDuhi/baElyEVPt5n9GXW9rlZBbv8tmGoAJnkMnMTU Z3IZhxRt/BvaqjgK+QUPAXy6hLBZdTtl01zvoijajGgUVssiWBgzvVzgX6On8k5iUTO+ 3hVYAI5BtrIf30uIvnPjQfHXoynmFYIa7rjD8VmNb9+rGQ8ZslD55PKcb2wgokqoRl7S M/mb9HBhTdt3xJ216ezPzY/lIc2Z6zCTR93pBge/tMf3m2wE5GPD0VQf+wI8B1/oF9o6 I77CuwBMpUcslZyaAEWV60i0D45cEsaGhxOvGjt4QHV/V5WBgw9CKa9gauvs7FaTSDeE u4Hg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=OnGdH3VA3cLfOEMjCdiw2KvCTpRQSUuVcFvHkymclWU=; b=MzlAq6WTkw6UEEDYfunUMVprStbWyji6rYUAkD6Q00rmTLSaCfsfOBZOOuhgm6aFDp ghfypOr0VBnik528/Fg2/DIdPv8EsLtJmyI0B5yArgNNNpfcRZHL7e9I/ok8bnLN/nBB vnKcAfTrkB5arQ44NyocKifXhWDa2mFENAz4ri1Ng9tx1g5RuCDAdP5OULrvjT+D0Zut uF+4rkwlCp2sCc8QuYdYQO23Os8Qo0wkTlN8GXd4lgy45E3XcoIF8Yjkof4LCIeuaVsd ipkNm/6sqq6eJ9Ia8K8Lhl+54qltiC5Ldr3pY+rmRXv/uWnxtmOhD9z/kGN9icQE8Bub LDtA== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQHFzDB6LV9k4x19c5rvfkP1npz8RCnSFZDfUvb9wmllIDWT10DiQJdrdKcdBFDh0wYwJW806V9j8ubkA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.37.230.216 with SMTP id d207mr5102838ybh.139.1454084317546; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 08:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.83.2 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 08:18:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 11:18:37 -0500 Message-ID: From: Aaron Falk To: "taps@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c0a7faa38938e052a7b6302 Archived-At: Subject: [Taps] WGLC2 for draft-ietf-taps-transports-09.txt -- ending Feb 12, 2016 X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 16:18:43 -0000 --94eb2c0a7faa38938e052a7b6302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As Brian highlights below, doc 1 has had a pretty thorough scrub and tidy while incorporating last call comments. I think the number of changes is sufficient that the group should take another look. Please send comments, pro or con, to the list. --aaron ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Brian Trammell Date: Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 9:39 AM Subject: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-taps-transports-09.tx= t To: Aaron Falk Cc: Mirja K=C3=BChlewind , Gorry Fairhurst= < gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Hi, Aaron, We went over the document over the past week addressing WGLC comments, and also spent a good deal of time with a fine-tooth comb double-checking editorial flow as well as the alignment of the per-protocol features with those in the definitive feature list in section 5. As you can see from the diff, the changes here (especially with respect to things we found that were missing from the list in section 5) are not all entirely editorial, so we may need to run a second WGLC on this. Chair's prerogative, of course, but I wanted to make sure you knew we weren't trying to sneak one past you here. :) If you believe one is not necessary, then this is very nearly ready to go. In any case, we'd also like to slightly rearrange the transport protocol sections in order to eliminate forward references, but we'd want to do that after any second WGLC comments, since it'll make the diffs hard to follow. Thanks, cheers, Brian > Begin forwarded message: > > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-taps-transports-09.txt > Date: 29 Jan 2016 15:32:13 CET > To: "Mirja Kuehlewind" , "Gorry Fairhurst" , "Brian Trammell" , "Godred Fairhurst" > > > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-taps-transports-09.txt > has been successfully submitted by Brian Trammell and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-ietf-taps-transports > Revision: 09 > Title: Services provided by IETF transport protocols and congestion control mechanisms > Document date: 2016-01-28 > Group: taps > Pages: 54 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-taps-transports-09.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-taps-transports/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-taps-transports-09 > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-taps-transports-09 > > Abstract: > This document describes, surveys, classifies and compares the > protocol mechanisms provided by existing IETF protocols, as > background for determining a common set of transport services. It > examines the Transmission Control Protocol (TCP), Multipath TCP, the > Stream Control Transmission Protocol (SCTP), the User Datagram > Protocol (UDP), UDP-Lite, the Datagram Congestion Control Protocol > (DCCP), the Internet Control Message Protocol (ICMP), the Realtime > Transport Protocol (RTP), File Delivery over Unidirectional > Transport/Asynchronous Layered Coding Reliable Multicast (FLUTE/ALC), > and NACK-Oriented Reliable Multicast (NORM), Transport Layer Security > (TLS), Datagram TLS (DTLS), and the Hypertext Transport Protocol > (HTTP) when used as a pseudotransport. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > --94eb2c0a7faa38938e052a7b6302 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As Brian highlights below, doc 1 has had a pretty tho= rough scrub and tidy while incorporating last call comments.=C2=A0 I think = the number of changes is sufficient that the group should take another look= .=C2=A0 Please send comments, pro or con, to the list.

=
--aaron


---------- = Forwarded message ----------
From: Brian T= rammell <ietf@= trammell.ch>
Date: Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 9:39 AM
Subject= : Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-taps-transports-09.txt
To= : Aaron Falk <aaron.falk@gmail.c= om>
Cc: Mirja K=C3=BChlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>, Gorry Fairhurst= <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>

Hi, Aaron,

We went over the document over the past week addressing WGLC comments, and = also spent a good deal of time with a fine-tooth comb double-checking edito= rial flow as well as the alignment of the per-protocol features with those = in the definitive feature list in section 5. As you can see from the diff, = the changes here (especially with respect to things we found that were miss= ing from the list in section 5) are not all entirely editorial, so we may n= eed to run a second WGLC on this. Chair's prerogative, of course, but I= wanted to make sure you knew we weren't trying to sneak one past you h= ere. :) If you believe one is not necessary, then this is very nearly ready= to go.

In any case, we'd also like to slightly rearrange the transport protoco= l sections in order to eliminate forward references, but we'd want to d= o that after any second WGLC comments, since it'll make the diffs hard = to follow.

Thanks, cheers,

Brian


> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: internet-drafts@ietf= .org
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-taps-transports-09.tx= t
> Date: 29 Jan 2016 15:32:13 CET
> To: "Mirja Kuehlewind" <mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch>, "Gorry Fair= hurst" <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.u= k>, "Brian Trammell" <ietf@trammell.ch>, "Godred Fairhurst" <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-taps-transports-09.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Brian Trammell and posted to the > IETF repository.
>
> Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-taps-transports
> Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A009
> Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Services= provided by IETF transport protocols and congestion control mechanisms
> Document date:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2016-01-28
> Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 taps
> Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 54
> URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-taps-t= ransports-09.txt
> Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-taps-transports/
> Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ht= tps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-taps-transports-09
> Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-taps-transpo= rts-09
>
> Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes, surveys, classifies and compares = the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0protocol mechanisms provided by existing IETF protocols, a= s
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0background for determining a common set of transport servi= ces.=C2=A0 It
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0examines the Transmission Control Protocol (TCP), Multipat= h TCP, the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Stream Control Transmission Protocol (SCTP), the User Data= gram
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Protocol (UDP), UDP-Lite, the Datagram Congestion Control = Protocol
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0(DCCP), the Internet Control Message Protocol (ICMP), the = Realtime
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Transport Protocol (RTP), File Delivery over Unidirectiona= l
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Transport/Asynchronous Layered Coding Reliable Multicast (= FLUTE/ALC),
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0and NACK-Oriented Reliable Multicast (NORM), Transport Lay= er Security
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0(TLS), Datagram TLS (DTLS), and the Hypertext Transport Pr= otocol
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0(HTTP) when used as a pseudotransport.
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of subm= ission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >
> The IETF Secretariat
>


--94eb2c0a7faa38938e052a7b6302-- From nobody Sat Jan 30 00:40:45 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 177461B368D for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 00:40:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4DIk0JIb7lAs for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 00:40:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out5.uio.no (mail-out5.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:10::17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD8EE1B368C for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 00:40:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-mx3.uio.no ([129.240.10.44]) by mail-out5.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1aPR5D-00068l-Bj for taps@ietf.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 09:40:39 +0100 Received: from 089144206244.atnat0015.highway.bob.at ([89.144.206.244] helo=[192.168.0.101]) by mail-mx3.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) user michawe (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1aPR5C-0006zd-4G for taps@ietf.org; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 09:40:39 +0100 From: Michael Welzl Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8DF82044-BAA9-45B5-A56D-918FE8D1CB06" Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 09:40:35 +0100 References: To: "taps@ietf.org" Message-Id: <82BF984C-F2CD-40F2-872D-758207BEC887@ifi.uio.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Ratelimit-Test: rcpts/h 7 msgs/h 6 sum rcpts/h 8 sum msgs/h 6 total rcpts 37744 max rcpts/h 54 ratelimit 0 X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: 04027BB9DECE46D770E14B7BE3E62A1540BA4ADE X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 89.144.206.244 spam_score: -49 maxlevel 80 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 6 total 7 max/h 6 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Archived-At: Subject: [Taps] What about draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services ? X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 08:40:44 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8DF82044-BAA9-45B5-A56D-918FE8D1CB06 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi everyone, Looking at the current charter items, when TAPS is over, folks will see = RFCs describing services of transports, an overview of what a TAPS = system should provide, and how it could be implemented - but they do = lack background unless they read stuff elsewhere: why is a TAPS system = even needed? What is so important about it? What are its benefits, = compared to simply building your own protocol? I think it makes sense to provide these answers in an RFC. As part of = the effort to motivate the need for TAPS, such text was written up in = draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services-01 = Is this group interested in taking this document further? What do = y=E2=80=99all think? Cheers, Michael --Apple-Mail=_8DF82044-BAA9-45B5-A56D-918FE8D1CB06 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi everyone,

Looking at the = current charter items, when TAPS is over, folks will see RFCs describing = services of transports, an overview of what a TAPS system should = provide, and how it could be implemented - but they do lack background = unless they read stuff elsewhere: why is a TAPS system even needed? = What is so important about it? What are its benefits, compared to simply = building your own protocol?

I think it makes sense to provide these answers in an RFC. As = part of the effort to motivate the need for TAPS, such text was written = up in draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-ser= vices-01

Is = this group interested in taking this document further? What do y=E2=80=99a= ll think?

Cheers,
Michael

= --Apple-Mail=_8DF82044-BAA9-45B5-A56D-918FE8D1CB06-- From nobody Sat Jan 30 20:13:01 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2020E1B3F3F for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 20:12:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Z6_-DWXMJeK for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 20:12:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C07F41B3EFC for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 20:12:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.189] (cpe-172-250-251-17.socal.res.rr.com [172.250.251.17]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u0V4CiSb017573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sat, 30 Jan 2016 20:12:46 -0800 (PST) To: Michael Welzl , "taps@ietf.org" References: <82BF984C-F2CD-40F2-872D-758207BEC887@ifi.uio.no> From: Joe Touch Message-ID: <56AD89BB.20906@isi.edu> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2016 20:12:43 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <82BF984C-F2CD-40F2-872D-758207BEC887@ifi.uio.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: touch@isi.edu Subject: Re: [Taps] What about draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services ? X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 04:12:59 -0000 This might be a useful document, but it seems like it overlooks a few "elephants in the room": 1) lots of services use TCP or UDP because they want to work through NATs 2) lots of services do just fine with the services provided by TCP or UDP It would be useful to address those issues head-on. Otherwise, this really looks like a group that's looking under its own lamppost for solutions. Joe On 1/30/2016 12:40 AM, Michael Welzl wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Looking at the current charter items, when TAPS is over, folks will see > RFCs describing services of transports, an overview of what a TAPS > system should provide, and how it could be implemented - but they do > lack background unless they read stuff elsewhere: why is a TAPS system > even needed? What is so important about it? What are its benefits, > compared to simply building your own protocol? > > I think it makes sense to provide these answers in an RFC. As part of > the effort to motivate the need for TAPS, such text was written up in > draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services-01 > > Is this group interested in taking this document further? What do y’all > think? > > Cheers, > Michael > > > > _______________________________________________ > Taps mailing list > Taps@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/taps > From nobody Sun Jan 31 00:00:03 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DCE81A902A for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 00:00:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GZuk6YHADPnJ for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 23:59:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out4.uio.no (mail-out4.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:10::15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7ECF1A9028 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2016 23:59:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-mx2.uio.no ([129.240.10.30]) by mail-out4.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1aPmvM-0005NL-Vv; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 08:59:56 +0100 Received: from 089144207162.atnat0016.highway.bob.at ([89.144.207.162] helo=[192.168.0.101]) by mail-mx2.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) user michawe (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1aPmvL-0008L8-Q3; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 08:59:56 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) From: Michael Welzl In-Reply-To: <56AD89BB.20906@isi.edu> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 08:59:49 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <82BF984C-F2CD-40F2-872D-758207BEC887@ifi.uio.no> <56AD89BB.20906@isi.edu> To: Joe Touch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Ratelimit-Test: rcpts/h 12 msgs/h 4 sum rcpts/h 17 sum msgs/h 6 total rcpts 37788 max rcpts/h 54 ratelimit 0 X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: B6EE6A50C17C7B6F14B9E03370946E92A2476BDE X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 89.144.207.162 spam_score: -49 maxlevel 80 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 4 total 12 max/h 6 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Archived-At: Cc: "taps@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Taps] What about draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services ? X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 08:00:02 -0000 Perfectly fine by me to incorporate that! The main question on the table is: provided that we'll incorporate such = comments, should this be a product of the WG? You say =93this might be a useful document=94, so I take that as a =93yes=94= from you=85 Cheers, Michael > On 31. jan. 2016, at 05.12, Joe Touch wrote: >=20 > This might be a useful document, but it seems like it overlooks a few > "elephants in the room": >=20 > 1) lots of services use TCP or UDP because they want to work through = NATs >=20 > 2) lots of services do just fine with the services provided by TCP or = UDP >=20 > It would be useful to address those issues head-on. Otherwise, this > really looks like a group that's looking under its own lamppost for > solutions. >=20 > Joe >=20 > On 1/30/2016 12:40 AM, Michael Welzl wrote: >> Hi everyone, >>=20 >> Looking at the current charter items, when TAPS is over, folks will = see >> RFCs describing services of transports, an overview of what a TAPS >> system should provide, and how it could be implemented - but they do >> lack background unless they read stuff elsewhere: why is a TAPS = system >> even needed? What is so important about it? What are its benefits, >> compared to simply building your own protocol? >>=20 >> I think it makes sense to provide these answers in an RFC. As part of >> the effort to motivate the need for TAPS, such text was written up in >> draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services >> = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services-01 >>=20 >> Is this group interested in taking this document further? What do = y=92all >> think? >>=20 >> Cheers, >> Michael >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Taps mailing list >> Taps@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/taps >>=20 From nobody Sun Jan 31 07:05:38 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E466C1B2A2D for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 07:05:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hEwd4z4iEb8O for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 07:05:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from pegasus.erg.abdn.ac.uk (pegasus.erg.abdn.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:241:204::f0f0]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFE231B2A2C for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 07:05:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (galactica.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.210.32]) by pegasus.erg.abdn.ac.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C9E9B1B001D2; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 15:13:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 212.159.18.54 (SquirrelMail authenticated user gorry) by erg.abdn.ac.uk with HTTP; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 15:05:33 -0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <82BF984C-F2CD-40F2-872D-758207BEC887@ifi.uio.no> <56AD89BB.20906@isi.edu> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 15:05:33 -0000 From: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk To: "Michael Welzl" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.23 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal Archived-At: Cc: "taps@ietf.org" , Joe Touch Subject: Re: [Taps] What about draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services ? X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 15:05:38 -0000 I think documents that describe how the IETF got to decisions can be useful, providing useful insights to why things emerged. However, I think they are more usefully published as an RFC when the WG heads towards the end of the design process - when its can be clearer what they need to contain - an ID can exist and evolve to capture the inputs as the WG heads towards its milestones. Gorry > Perfectly fine by me to incorporate that! > The main question on the table is: provided that we'll incorporate such > comments, should this be a product of the WG? > You say “this might be a useful document”, so I take that as a “yes” from > you… > > Cheers, > Michael > > >> On 31. jan. 2016, at 05.12, Joe Touch wrote: >> >> This might be a useful document, but it seems like it overlooks a few >> "elephants in the room": >> >> 1) lots of services use TCP or UDP because they want to work through >> NATs >> >> 2) lots of services do just fine with the services provided by TCP or >> UDP >> >> It would be useful to address those issues head-on. Otherwise, this >> really looks like a group that's looking under its own lamppost for >> solutions. >> >> Joe >> >> On 1/30/2016 12:40 AM, Michael Welzl wrote: >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> Looking at the current charter items, when TAPS is over, folks will see >>> RFCs describing services of transports, an overview of what a TAPS >>> system should provide, and how it could be implemented - but they do >>> lack background unless they read stuff elsewhere: why is a TAPS system >>> even needed? What is so important about it? What are its benefits, >>> compared to simply building your own protocol? >>> >>> I think it makes sense to provide these answers in an RFC. As part of >>> the effort to motivate the need for TAPS, such text was written up in >>> draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services-01 >>> >>> Is this group interested in taking this document further? What do y’all >>> think? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Michael >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Taps mailing list >>> Taps@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/taps >>> > > _______________________________________________ > Taps mailing list > Taps@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/taps > From nobody Sun Jan 31 09:07:41 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: taps@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0881ACE65 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 09:07:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vt5qbscObHuy for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 09:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out5.uio.no (mail-out5.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:10::17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62AF91A1B18 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 09:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-mx2.uio.no ([129.240.10.30]) by mail-out5.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1aPvTK-0007Zk-Ij; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 18:07:34 +0100 Received: from [80.122.90.134] (helo=[192.168.0.117]) by mail-mx2.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) user michawe (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1aPvTI-00065E-Pz; Sun, 31 Jan 2016 18:07:34 +0100 References: <82BF984C-F2CD-40F2-872D-758207BEC887@ifi.uio.no> <56AD89BB.20906@isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13D15) From: Michael Welzl Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 18:07:25 +0100 To: gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Ratelimit-Test: rcpts/h 6 msgs/h 3 sum rcpts/h 7 sum msgs/h 4 total rcpts 37814 max rcpts/h 54 ratelimit 0 X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: 6AE8E1D6C6A84EFF2EB5B6D807DF9AC74F5989CF X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 80.122.90.134 spam_score: -49 maxlevel 80 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 3 total 4 max/h 3 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Archived-At: Cc: Joe Touch , "taps@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Taps] What about draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services ? X-BeenThere: taps@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions on Transport Services List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 17:07:40 -0000 this makes a lot of sense to me Sent from my iPhone > On 31. jan. 2016, at 16.05, gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk wrote: >=20 > I think documents that describe how the IETF got to decisions can be > useful, providing useful insights to why things emerged. >=20 > However, I think they are more usefully published as an RFC when the WG > heads towards the end of the design process - when its can be clearer what= > they need to contain - an ID can exist and evolve to capture the inputs as= > the WG heads towards its milestones. >=20 > Gorry >=20 >> Perfectly fine by me to incorporate that! >> The main question on the table is: provided that we'll incorporate such >> comments, should this be a product of the WG? >> You say =E2=80=9Cthis might be a useful document=E2=80=9D, so I take that= as a =E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D from >> you=E2=80=A6 >>=20 >> Cheers, >> Michael >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 31. jan. 2016, at 05.12, Joe Touch wrote: >>>=20 >>> This might be a useful document, but it seems like it overlooks a few >>> "elephants in the room": >>>=20 >>> 1) lots of services use TCP or UDP because they want to work through >>> NATs >>>=20 >>> 2) lots of services do just fine with the services provided by TCP or >>> UDP >>>=20 >>> It would be useful to address those issues head-on. Otherwise, this >>> really looks like a group that's looking under its own lamppost for >>> solutions. >>>=20 >>> Joe >>>=20 >>>> On 1/30/2016 12:40 AM, Michael Welzl wrote: >>>> Hi everyone, >>>>=20 >>>> Looking at the current charter items, when TAPS is over, folks will see= >>>> RFCs describing services of transports, an overview of what a TAPS >>>> system should provide, and how it could be implemented - but they do >>>> lack background unless they read stuff elsewhere: why is a TAPS system >>>> even needed? What is so important about it? What are its benefits, >>>> compared to simply building your own protocol? >>>>=20 >>>> I think it makes sense to provide these answers in an RFC. As part of >>>> the effort to motivate the need for TAPS, such text was written up in >>>> draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moncaster-tsvwg-transport-services-01= >>>>=20 >>>> Is this group interested in taking this document further? What do y=E2=80= =99all >>>> think? >>>>=20 >>>> Cheers, >>>> Michael >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Taps mailing list >>>> Taps@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/taps >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Taps mailing list >> Taps@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/taps >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Taps mailing list > Taps@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/taps