From nobody Wed May 2 05:09:15 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: teep@ietf.org Delivered-To: teep@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B9D120454; Wed, 2 May 2018 05:09:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: teep@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.79.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152526294915.10748.17372460276999470193@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 02 May 2018 05:09:09 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Teep] I-D Action: draft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol-00.txt X-BeenThere: teep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: A Protocol for Dynamic Trusted Execution Environment Enablement List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 May 2018 12:09:09 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Trusted Execution Environment Provisioning WG of the IETF. Title : The Open Trust Protocol (OTrP) Authors : Mingliang Pei Andrew Atyeo Nick Cook Minho Yoo Hannes Tschofenig Filename : draft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol-00.txt Pages : 114 Date : 2018-05-01 Abstract: This document specifies the Open Trust Protocol (OTrP), a protocol to install, update, and delete applications in a Trusted Execution Environment (TEE) and to manage their security configuration. TEEs are used in environments where security services should be isolated from a regular operating system (often called rich OS). This form of compartmentalization grants a smaller codebase access to security sensitive services and restricts communication from the rich OS to those security services via mediated access. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed May 2 07:13:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: teep@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: teep@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CF66127076 for ; Wed, 2 May 2018 07:13:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.089 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3CV79t-CJ3Kq for ; Wed, 2 May 2018 07:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mga18.intel.com (mga18.intel.com [134.134.136.126]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE396126D85 for ; Wed, 2 May 2018 07:13:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Amp-Result: SKIPPED(no attachment in message) X-Amp-File-Uploaded: False Received: from fmsmga003.fm.intel.com ([10.253.24.29]) by orsmga106.jf.intel.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 02 May 2018 07:13:48 -0700 X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.49,354,1520924400"; d="scan'208,217"; a="46195765" Received: from fmsmsx106.amr.corp.intel.com ([10.18.124.204]) by FMSMGA003.fm.intel.com with ESMTP; 02 May 2018 07:13:48 -0700 Received: from crsmsx152.amr.corp.intel.com (172.18.7.35) by FMSMSX106.amr.corp.intel.com (10.18.124.204) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.319.2; Wed, 2 May 2018 07:13:47 -0700 Received: from crsmsx102.amr.corp.intel.com ([169.254.2.199]) by CRSMSX152.amr.corp.intel.com ([169.254.5.178]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Wed, 2 May 2018 08:13:46 -0600 From: "Wheeler, David M" To: Mingliang Pei , "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" , "teep@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption Thread-Index: AQHTyq142RjpvyjwDU2wIosP54am7aQTJwQAgAC1LgCACM2bgA== Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 14:13:45 +0000 Message-ID: <0627F5240443D2498FAA65332EE46C84367D27EF@CRSMSX102.amr.corp.intel.com> References: <38924978-1EB8-4E25-A8EE-55F85A5FD173@cisco.com> <6F8051FA-C7F7-4E53-B8F8-5F45290F8D7F@symantec.com> In-Reply-To: <6F8051FA-C7F7-4E53-B8F8-5F45290F8D7F@symantec.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-titus-metadata-40: eyJDYXRlZ29yeUxhYmVscyI6IiIsIk1ldGFkYXRhIjp7Im5zIjoiaHR0cDpcL1wvd3d3LnRpdHVzLmNvbVwvbnNcL0ludGVsMyIsImlkIjoiZjFiYTAzYmEtNDc4NC00MDkyLThlYjQtZWI1NjFhODkyMjQ3IiwicHJvcHMiOlt7Im4iOiJDVFBDbGFzc2lmaWNhdGlvbiIsInZhbHMiOlt7InZhbHVlIjoiQ1RQX05UIn1dfV19LCJTdWJqZWN0TGFiZWxzIjpbXSwiVE1DVmVyc2lvbiI6IjE2LjUuOS4zIiwiVHJ1c3RlZExhYmVsSGFzaCI6IjF1cDNCalB2TEUxR1wvTTNZWmFIbUlIQ04reUpCR29vK0RSQ1BBc0RyTjhBPSJ9 x-ctpclassification: CTP_NT dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.0.200.100 dlp-reaction: no-action 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[193.10.66.61]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r5-v6sm3145682ljr.41.2018.05.04.02.35.25 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 04 May 2018 02:35:25 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_09C443F9-2528-4579-8F37-4DA4C8B952E0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Nicolae Paladi In-Reply-To: <2F635C9F-199B-4118-9D80-CD35ADA74261@symantec.com> Date: Fri, 4 May 2018 11:35:24 +0200 Cc: Dave Thaler , "Wheeler, David M" , "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" , "teep@ietf.org" Message-Id: <6C77FC20-EB64-46B7-8D2D-69693E163D95@gmail.com> References: <38924978-1EB8-4E25-A8EE-55F85A5FD173@cisco.com> <6F8051FA-C7F7-4E53-B8F8-5F45290F8D7F@symantec.com> <0627F5240443D2498FAA65332EE46C84367D27EF@CRSMSX102.amr.corp.intel.com> <2F635C9F-199B-4118-9D80-CD35ADA74261@symantec.com> To: Mingliang Pei X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption X-BeenThere: teep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: A Protocol for Dynamic Trusted Execution Environment Enablement List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 May 2018 09:35:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_09C443F9-2528-4579-8F37-4DA4C8B952E0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello, I have read through the 06 OTrP document; besides a list of = miscellaneous omissions and minor misses (that can be addressed later), = several points caught my eye: 1. In =C2=A75.2 the acronym =E2=80=9CAIK=E2=80=9D from "TEE SP = anonymous key (AIK)=E2=80=9D reads very similar to the concept of an = =E2=80=9CAttestation Identity Key=E2=80=9D (e.g. from [1]).=20 Is that the purpose? If yes, the key and its role should be introduced, = otherwise a different acronym could be used. 2. In =C2=A76.3.1 the draft mentions that =E2=80=9CIt is important to = ensure a legitimate OTrP Agent is installed=E2=80=9D.=20 However, it is not clear what a =E2=80=9Clegitimate=E2=80=9D agent is = and how one can ensure that a =E2=80=9Clegitimate=E2=80=9D agent = installed. Given that the agent runs in the REE where the applications are by = definition un-trusted (as per 3.1), this paragraph leads to a dead end. What is the relation between a =E2=80=9Clegitimate=E2=80=9D application = and a =E2=80=9Ctrusted=E2=80=9D application? 3. =C2=A76.3.2 states twice (duplication) that only one OTrP agent is = expected.=20 However, given that =E2=80=9Ca user can dynamically download and install = an OTrP Agent on demand=E2=80=9D (as per =C2=A76.3.1), it is unclear = what this expectation is based on. Moreover, the interaction is multiple OTrP agents on the platform is not = discussed. Best regards, Nicolae =3D=3D=3D=3D [1] Ernie Brickell, Jan Camenisch, and Liqun Chen. 2004. Direct = anonymous attestation. In Proceedings of the 11th ACM conference on = Computer and communications security (CCS '04). ACM, New York, NY, USA, = 132-145. DOI=3Dhttp://dx.doi.org/10.1145/1030083.1030103 > On 02 May 2018, at 20:23, Mingliang Pei = wrote: >=20 > Thanks Dave T, that is correct. > =20 > Hi Dave W, yes, I can confirm that it is exactly the same version as = v06 OTrP except a few typo fixes. The plan is to rename the = =E2=80=9Cadopted=E2=80=9D version v06 first to WG named draft, and we = work on revision from there with full continuity. > =20 > Thanks, > =20 > Ming > =20 > From: Dave Thaler > Date: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 10:13 AM > To: "Wheeler, David M" , Mingliang Pei = , "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" = , "teep@ietf.org" > Subject: RE: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption > =20 > You can see the diffs at > =20 > I see that a number of typos were fixed, but there were no substantial = differences. > =20 > Dave > =20 > From: TEEP On Behalf Of Wheeler, David M > Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 7:14 AM > To: Mingliang Pei ; Nancy Cam-Winget = (ncamwing) ; teep@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption > =20 > Ming, > Can you just confirm that there are NO DIFFERENCES between the last = released version and the 06 OTrP document? > If there are differences, can you give a short summary so I know where = to look? > Much appreciated, > Dave Wheeler > =20 > =20 > <>From: TEEP [mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Mingliang Pei > Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 10:46 AM > To: Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) >; teep@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption > =20 > Thank you Nancy, Dave and all for your support, comments and = suggestions. > =20 > Yes, I will rename the draft to = =E2=80=9Cdraft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol=E2=80=9D and resubmit it very = soon. > =20 > Thanks, again, > =20 > Ming > =20 > From: TEEP > on = behalf of "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" > > Date: Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 8:58 AM > To: "teep@ietf.org " > > Subject: [EXT] Re: [Teep] Call for adoption > =20 > Hearing (or reading) no strong objections, = =E2=80=9Cdraft-pei-opentrustprotocol=E2=80=9D is adopted by the WG. > =20 > A few comments have already been provided that can be addressed in = subsequent versions some can also be clarified in the architecture = draft. > =20 > Ming: when you get a chance, please submit the draft with the name: = draft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol > =20 > Your chairs, Dave and Nancy > =20 > From: "ncamwing@cisco.com " = > > Date: Monday, April 2, 2018 at 11:07 AM > To: "teep@ietf.org " > > Subject: Call for adoption > =20 > All, <> > =20 > There was strong interest and consensus at the TEEP f2f IETF 101 = meeting in London for adopting > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-pei-opentrustprotocol/ = as a draft protocol. > =20 > This is a call for adoption as a working group draft . If you have = any concerns or objections please respond > by April 16th. > =20 > Warm regards, Nancy > _______________________________________________ > TEEP mailing list > TEEP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teep --Apple-Mail=_09C443F9-2528-4579-8F37-4DA4C8B952E0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hello,

I = have read through the 06 OTrP document; besides a list of miscellaneous = omissions and minor misses (that can be addressed later), several points = caught my eye:

1. In =C2=A75.2 the acronym =E2=80=9CAIK=E2=80=9D from =  "TEE SP anonymous key (AIK)=E2=80=9D reads very similar to the = concept of an =E2=80=9CAttestation Identity Key=E2=80=9D  (e.g. = from [1]). 
Is that the purpose? If yes, the = key and its role should be introduced, otherwise a different acronym = could be used.

2. In =C2=A76.3.1 the draft mentions that =E2=80=9CIt is = important to ensure a legitimate OTrP Agent is = installed=E2=80=9D. 
However, it is not clear = what a =E2=80=9Clegitimate=E2=80=9D agent is and how one can ensure that = a =E2=80=9Clegitimate=E2=80=9D agent installed.
Given that the agent runs in the REE where the applications = are by definition un-trusted (as per 3.1), this paragraph leads to a = dead end.
What is the relation between a = =E2=80=9Clegitimate=E2=80=9D application and a =E2=80=9Ctrusted=E2=80=9D = application?

3. =C2=A76.3.2 states twice = (duplication) that only one OTrP agent is expected. 
However, given that =E2=80=9Ca user can dynamically download = and install an OTrP Agent on demand=E2=80=9D (as per =C2=A76.3.1), it is = unclear what this expectation is based on.
Moreover, = the interaction is multiple OTrP agents on the platform is not = discussed.


Best regards,
Nicolae

=3D=3D=3D=3D

[1] Ernie Brickell, Jan Camenisch, and Liqun Chen. 2004. = Direct anonymous attestation. In Proceedings = of the 11th ACM conference on Computer and communications = security (CCS '04). ACM, New York, NY, USA, 132-145. = DOI=3Dhttp://dx.doi.org/10.1145/1030083.1030103


On 02 May 2018, at 20:23, = Mingliang Pei <Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com> wrote:

Thanks Dave T, that is = correct.
 
Hi Dave W, yes, I can confirm that = it is exactly the same version as v06 OTrP except a few typo fixes. The = plan is to rename the =E2=80=9Cadopted=E2=80=9D version v06 first to WG = named draft, and we work on revision from there with full = continuity.
 
Thanks,
 
Ming
 
From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 = at 10:13 AM
To: "Wheeler, David M" = <david.m.wheeler@intel.com>, Mingliang Pei <Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com>, "Nancy Cam-Winget = (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>, "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Teep] [EXT] Re: = Call for adoption
 
You can see the diffs at
 
I see = that a number of typos were fixed, but there were no substantial = differences.
 
Dave
 
From: TEEP = <teep-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of Wheeler, David = M
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 7:14 = AM
To: Mingliang Pei <Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com>; Nancy Cam-Winget = (ncamwing) <ncamwing@cisco.com>; teep@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call = for adoption
 
Ming,
Can you just confirm that there are NO = DIFFERENCES between the last released version and the 06 OTrP = document?
If there are differences, can you give a short summary so I = know where to look?
Much appreciated,
Dave = Wheeler
 
 
From: TEEP [mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Mingliang = Pei
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 = 10:46 AM
To: Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) = <ncamwing@cisco.com>; teep@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call = for adoption
 
Thank you Nancy, Dave and all for your support, comments and = suggestions.
 
Yes, I will rename the draft to = =E2=80=9Cdraft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol=E2=80=9D and resubmit it very = soon.
 
Thanks, again,
 
Ming
 
From: TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Nancy Cam-Winget = (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
Date: Thursday, April 26, = 2018 at 8:58 AM
To: "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [Teep] Call = for adoption
 
Hearing (or reading) no strong objections, = =E2=80=9Cdraft-pei-opentrustprotocol=E2=80=9D is adopted by the = WG.
 
A few comments have already been = provided that can be addressed in subsequent versions some can also be = clarified in the architecture draft.
 
Ming: when you get a chance, = please submit the draft with the name:  = draft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol
 
Your chairs, Dave = and Nancy
 
From: "ncamwing@cisco.com" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
Date: Monday, April 2, 2018 = at 11:07 AM
To: "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
Subject: Call for = adoption
 
All,
 
There was strong = interest and consensus at the TEEP f2f IETF 101 meeting in London for = adopting
 
This is a call for adoption as a = working group draft .  If you have any concerns or objections = please respond
by April 16th.
 
Warm regards, = Nancy
_______________________________________________
TEEP mailing list
TEEP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teep

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David M" , "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" , "teep@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption Thread-Index: AQHT4h/Z9YjDpAacJkectcHgDJuKwqQcrWUA//+eNgCAAwaZAIAIh9GA Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 02:51:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <38924978-1EB8-4E25-A8EE-55F85A5FD173@cisco.com> <6F8051FA-C7F7-4E53-B8F8-5F45290F8D7F@symantec.com> <0627F5240443D2498FAA65332EE46C84367D27EF@CRSMSX102.amr.corp.intel.com> <2F635C9F-199B-4118-9D80-CD35ADA74261@symantec.com> <6C77FC20-EB64-46B7-8D2D-69693E163D95@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6C77FC20-EB64-46B7-8D2D-69693E163D95@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.9.0.180116 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com; x-originating-ip: [155.64.23.48] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BL0PR16MB2146; 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[193.10.64.23]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j188-v6sm3031412lfg.52.2018.05.15.05.56.59 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 15 May 2018 05:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0748B4FD-3CBD-4D91-B7D8-E653B0480601" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Nicolae Paladi In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 14:56:58 +0200 Cc: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" , "teep@ietf.org" , "Wheeler, David M" , Dave Thaler Message-Id: References: <38924978-1EB8-4E25-A8EE-55F85A5FD173@cisco.com> <6F8051FA-C7F7-4E53-B8F8-5F45290F8D7F@symantec.com> <0627F5240443D2498FAA65332EE46C84367D27EF@CRSMSX102.amr.corp.intel.com> <2F635C9F-199B-4118-9D80-CD35ADA74261@symantec.com> <6C77FC20-EB64-46B7-8D2D-69693E163D95@gmail.com> To: Mingliang Pei X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption X-BeenThere: teep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: A Protocol for Dynamic Trusted Execution Environment Enablement List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 12:57:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0748B4FD-3CBD-4D91-B7D8-E653B0480601 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Mingliang,=20 thank you for the clarifications. Comments and suggestions inline. > On 10 May 2018, at 04:51, Mingliang Pei = wrote: >=20 > Hi Nicolae, > =20 > Thank you very much for your comments. Sorry for delayed reply. Please = see my comments inline. > =20 > Best, > =20 > Ming > =20 > From: Nicolae Paladi > > Date: Friday, May 4, 2018 at 2:35 AM > To: Mingliang Pei > > Cc: Dave Thaler >, "Wheeler, David M" = >, "Nancy = Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" >, = "teep@ietf.org " > > Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption > =20 > Hello,=20 > =20 > I have read through the 06 OTrP document; besides a list of = miscellaneous omissions and minor misses (that can be addressed later), = several points caught my eye: > =20 > 1. In =C2=A75.2 the acronym =E2=80=9CAIK=E2=80=9D from "TEE SP = anonymous key (AIK)=E2=80=9D reads very similar to the concept of an = =E2=80=9CAttestation Identity Key=E2=80=9D (e.g. from [1]).=20 > Is that the purpose? If yes, the key and its role should be = introduced, otherwise a different acronym could be used. > =20 > Ming: it is different. The TAM will still know a device=E2=80=99s = identity basing on TEE key and we introduced AIK to make the application = itself no need to access TEE device key. We were aware of DAA but = didn=E2=80=99t make it a requirement to use. Nicolae: I understand; in ANY that case it should be introduced in the = acronym list (I assume it is an acronym; would be nice to know what it = stands for), and also explained in the text body. > =20 > 2. In =C2=A76.3.1 the draft mentions that =E2=80=9CIt is important to = ensure a legitimate OTrP Agent is installed=E2=80=9D.=20 > However, it is not clear what a =E2=80=9Clegitimate=E2=80=9D agent is = and how one can ensure that a =E2=80=9Clegitimate=E2=80=9D agent = installed. > Given that the agent runs in the REE where the applications are by = definition un-trusted (as per 3.1), this paragraph leads to a dead end. > What is the relation between a =E2=80=9Clegitimate=E2=80=9D = application and a =E2=80=9Ctrusted=E2=80=9D application? > =20 > Ming: =E2=80=9Ctrusted=E2=80=9D application refers to those running in = TEE side. You are right, an OTrP Agent cannot be always trusted. We = recommend that it is installed as a =E2=80=9Csystem=E2=80=9D app that = has better protection than a user installed app. If an OTrP agent = applicaton is compromised, it cannot steal anything because data is = encrypted end-to-end, and TAM will detect it. One threat is that it may = cause Denial-of-service to TA management requests. Thanks for your = comment; we can elaborate this in =E2=80=9CSecurity Consideration=E2=80=9D= section. How do you think? > =20 Nicolae: I think discussing the security aspects of the OTrP Agent in = the =E2=80=9CSecurity Consideration=E2=80=9D section is a good idea.=20 I would actually move the sentence =E2=80=9CIt is important to ensure a = legitimate OTrP Agent is installed=E2=80=9D also to the =E2=80=9CSecurity = Consideration=E2=80=9D section - to both motivate this importance, = outline the risks and suggest mitigations.=20 Otherwise it does not help to underly this importance if earlier in the = text the REE was declared untrusted. > 3. =C2=A76.3.2 states twice (duplication) that only one OTrP agent is = expected.=20 > However, given that =E2=80=9Ca user can dynamically download and = install an OTrP Agent on demand=E2=80=9D (as per =C2=A76.3.1), it is = unclear what this expectation is based on. > Moreover, the interaction is multiple OTrP agents on the platform is = not discussed. > =20 > Ming: the OTrP assumes that only one active TEE is installed in a = device, see Section 12 and 7.8 etc. You raised a good point on what if a = user downloads multiple OTrP agent. It was expected that one = =E2=80=9Csystem=E2=80=9D OTrP agent is used that associates with the = underlying TEE. Supporting multiple different OTrP agents are out of = scope for the spec. The focus is on the =E2=80=9Cmessaging protocol=E2=80=9D= that are exchanged. How an OTrP agent is installed and interact with = TEE are left out for implementations. We will add clarification about = this. Thanks again for your questions here. Nicolae: Sounds good; explicitly marking the scope and the assumptions = here will be helpful. > =20 > Best regards, > Nicolae > =20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D > =20 > [1] Ernie Brickell, Jan Camenisch, and Liqun Chen. 2004. Direct = anonymous attestation. In Proceedings of the 11th ACM conference on = Computer and communications security (CCS '04). ACM, New York, NY, USA, = 132-145. DOI=3Dhttp://dx.doi.org/10.1145/1030083.1030103 = > =20 > =20 >> On 02 May 2018, at 20:23, Mingliang Pei > wrote: >> =20 >> Thanks Dave T, that is correct. >> =20 >> Hi Dave W, yes, I can confirm that it is exactly the same version as = v06 OTrP except a few typo fixes. The plan is to rename the = =E2=80=9Cadopted=E2=80=9D version v06 first to WG named draft, and we = work on revision from there with full continuity. >> =20 >> Thanks, >> =20 >> Ming >> =20 >> From: Dave Thaler > >> Date: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 at 10:13 AM >> To: "Wheeler, David M" >, Mingliang Pei = >, "Nancy = Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" >, = "teep@ietf.org " > >> Subject: RE: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption >> =20 >> You can see the diffs at >> =20 >> I see that a number of typos were fixed, but there were no = substantial differences. >> =20 >> Dave >> =20 >> From: TEEP > On = Behalf Of Wheeler, David M >> Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 7:14 AM >> To: Mingliang Pei >; Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) = >; teep@ietf.org = >> Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption >> =20 >> Ming, >> Can you just confirm that there are NO DIFFERENCES between the last = released version and the 06 OTrP document? >> If there are differences, can you give a short summary so I know = where to look? >> Much appreciated, >> Dave Wheeler >> =20 >> =20 >> <>From: TEEP [mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Mingliang Pei >> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 10:46 AM >> To: Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) >; teep@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption >> =20 >> Thank you Nancy, Dave and all for your support, comments and = suggestions. >> =20 >> Yes, I will rename the draft to = =E2=80=9Cdraft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol=E2=80=9D and resubmit it very = soon. >> =20 >> Thanks, again, >> =20 >> Ming >> =20 >> From: TEEP > on = behalf of "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" > >> Date: Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 8:58 AM >> To: "teep@ietf.org " > >> Subject: [EXT] Re: [Teep] Call for adoption >> =20 >> Hearing (or reading) no strong objections, = =E2=80=9Cdraft-pei-opentrustprotocol=E2=80=9D is adopted by the WG. >> =20 >> A few comments have already been provided that can be addressed in = subsequent versions some can also be clarified in the architecture = draft. >> =20 >> Ming: when you get a chance, please submit the draft with the name: = draft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol >> =20 >> Your chairs, Dave and Nancy >> =20 >> From: "ncamwing@cisco.com " = > >> Date: Monday, April 2, 2018 at 11:07 AM >> To: "teep@ietf.org " > >> Subject: Call for adoption >> =20 >> All, <> >> =20 >> There was strong interest and consensus at the TEEP f2f IETF 101 = meeting in London for adopting >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-pei-opentrustprotocol/ = as a draft protocol. >> =20 >> This is a call for adoption as a working group draft . If you have = any concerns or objections please respond >> by April 16th. >> =20 >> Warm regards, Nancy >> _______________________________________________ >> TEEP mailing list >> TEEP@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teep = > =20 > _______________________________________________ > TEEP mailing list > TEEP@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teep = --Apple-Mail=_0748B4FD-3CBD-4D91-B7D8-E653B0480601 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Mingliang, 

thank you for the clarifications. Comments and suggestions = inline.

On 10 May 2018, at 04:51, Mingliang Pei = <Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com> wrote:

Hi = Nicolae,
 
Thank you very much for your comments. Sorry for delayed = reply. Please see my comments inline.
 
Best,
 
Ming
 
From: Nicolae Paladi <n.paladi@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, May 4, 2018 at = 2:35 AM
To: Mingliang Pei <Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com>
Cc: Dave = Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>, "Wheeler, David M" <david.m.wheeler@intel.com>,= "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>, "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: = Call for adoption
 
Hello, 
 
I have read through the 06 OTrP = document; besides a list of miscellaneous omissions and minor misses = (that can be addressed later), several points caught my eye:
 
1. In =C2=A75.2 the acronym =E2=80=9CAIK=E2= =80=9D from  "TEE SP anonymous key (AIK)=E2=80=9D reads very = similar to the concept of an =E2=80=9CAttestation Identity Key=E2=80=9D =  (e.g. from [1]). 
Is that the purpose? If = yes, the key and its role should be introduced, otherwise a different = acronym could be used.
 
Ming: it = is different. The TAM will still know a device=E2=80=99s identity basing = on TEE key and we introduced AIK to make the application itself no need = to access TEE device key. We were aware of DAA but didn=E2=80=99t make = it a requirement to use.

Nicolae: I understand; in ANY that case it should = be introduced in the acronym list (I assume it is an acronym; would be = nice to know what it stands for), and also explained in the text = body.

 
2. In =C2=A76.3.1 the draft mentions that =E2=80=9CIt is = important to ensure a legitimate OTrP Agent is installed=E2=80=9D. 
However, it is not clear what a =E2=80=9Clegitimate=E2=80=9D = agent is and how one can ensure that a =E2=80=9Clegitimate=E2=80=9D = agent installed.
Given that the agent runs in the REE = where the applications are by definition un-trusted (as per 3.1), this = paragraph leads to a dead end.
What is the relation = between a =E2=80=9Clegitimate=E2=80=9D application and a =E2=80=9Ctrusted=E2= =80=9D application?
 
Ming: =E2=80=9Ctrusted=E2=80=9D application refers to those = running in TEE side. You are right, an OTrP Agent cannot be always = trusted. We recommend that it is installed as a =E2=80=9Csystem=E2=80=9D = app that has better protection than a user installed app. If an OTrP = agent applicaton is compromised, it cannot steal anything because data = is encrypted end-to-end, and TAM will detect it. One threat is that it = may cause Denial-of-service to TA management requests. Thanks for your = comment; we can elaborate this in =E2=80=9CSecurity Consideration=E2=80=9D= section. How do you think?
 
Nicolae: I think discussing the security aspects = of the OTrP Agent in the =E2=80=9CSecurity Consideration=E2=80=9D = section is a good idea. 
I would actually move the = sentence =E2=80=9CIt is important to ensure a legitimate OTrP Agent is = installed=E2=80=9D also to the =E2=80=9CSecurity Consideration=E2=80=9D = section - to both motivate this importance, outline the risks and = suggest mitigations. 
Otherwise it does not help to = underly this importance if earlier in the text the REE was declared = untrusted.

3. =C2=A76.3.2 states twice = (duplication) that only one OTrP agent is expected. 
However, given that =E2=80=9Ca user can dynamically download = and install an OTrP Agent on demand=E2=80=9D (as per =C2=A76.3.1), it is = unclear what this expectation is based on.
Moreover, the interaction is multiple OTrP agents on the = platform is not discussed.
 
Ming: the OTrP assumes that only one active TEE is installed = in a device, see Section 12 and 7.8 etc. You raised a good point on what = if a user downloads multiple OTrP agent. It was expected that one = =E2=80=9Csystem=E2=80=9D OTrP agent is used that associates with the = underlying TEE. Supporting multiple different OTrP agents are out of = scope for the spec. The focus is on the =E2=80=9Cmessaging protocol=E2=80=9D= that are exchanged. How an OTrP agent is installed and interact with = TEE are left out for implementations. We will add clarification about = this. Thanks again for your questions = here.

Nicolae: Sounds good; explicitly marking the scope = and the assumptions here will be helpful.

 
Best regards,
Nicolae
 
=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
[1] Ernie = Brickell, Jan Camenisch, and Liqun Chen. 2004. Direct anonymous = attestation. In Proceedings of the 11th ACM conference on Computer = and communications security (CCS '04). ACM, New York, NY, USA, = 132-145. DOI=3Dhttp://dx.doi.org/10.1145/1030083.1030103
 
 
On 02 May 2018, at 20:23, Mingliang Pei <Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com>= wrote:
 
Thanks Dave T, that is = correct.
 
Hi Dave W, yes, I can confirm that it is exactly the same = version as v06 OTrP except a few typo fixes. The plan is to rename the = =E2=80=9Cadopted=E2=80=9D version v06 first to WG named draft, and we = work on revision from there with full continuity.
 
Thanks,
 
Ming
 
From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 = at 10:13 AM
To: "Wheeler, David M" = <david.m.wheeler@intel.com>,= Mingliang Pei <Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com>, "Nancy Cam-Winget = (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>, "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Teep] [EXT] Re: = Call for adoption
 
You can see the diffs at
 
I see that a number of typos were fixed, = but there were no substantial differences.
 
Dave
 
From: TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of Wheeler, David = M
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 7:14 = AM
To: Mingliang Pei <Mingliang_Pei@symantec.com>; Nancy Cam-Winget = (ncamwing) <ncamwing@cisco.com>; teep@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call = for adoption
 
Ming,
Can you just confirm that there are NO = DIFFERENCES between the last released version and the 06 OTrP = document?
If there = are differences, can you give a short summary so I know where to = look?
Much = appreciated,
Dave = Wheeler
 
 
From: TEEP [mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Mingliang = Pei
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 = 10:46 AM
To: Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) = <ncamwing@cisco.com>; teep@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call = for adoption
 
Thank you Nancy, Dave and = all for your support, comments and suggestions.
 
Yes, I will rename the draft to = =E2=80=9Cdraft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol=E2=80=9D and resubmit it very = soon.
 
Thanks, again,
 
Ming
 
From: TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of = "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
Date: Thursday, April 26, = 2018 at 8:58 AM
To: "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [Teep] Call = for adoption
 
Hearing (or reading) no strong = objections, =E2=80=9Cdraft-pei-opentrustprotocol=E2=80=9D is adopted by = the WG.
 
A few comments have already been provided that can be = addressed in subsequent versions some can also be clarified in the = architecture draft.
 
Ming: when you get a chance, please submit the draft with the = name:  draft-ietf-teep-opentrustprotocol
 
Your chairs, Dave and Nancy
 
From: "ncamwing@cisco.com" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
Date: Monday, April 2, 2018 = at 11:07 AM
To: "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
Subject: Call for adoption
 
All,
 
There was = strong interest and consensus at the TEEP f2f IETF 101 meeting in London = for adopting
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-pei-opentrustprotocol/  as a = draft protocol.
 
This is a = call for adoption as a working group draft .  If you have any = concerns or objections please respond
by April 16th.
 
Warm = regards, Nancy
_______________________________________________
TEEP mailing list
TEEP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teep
 
_______________________________________________
TEEP mailing list
TEEP@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teep

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X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.6.18) x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.222.224.114] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7C5EE1C429E24A048B9EE25A36AB489Dqtiqualcommcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Teep] [EXT] Re: Call for adoption X-BeenThere: teep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: A Protocol for Dynamic Trusted Execution Environment Enablement List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 08:34:53 -0000 --_000_7C5EE1C429E24A048B9EE25A36AB489Dqtiqualcommcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 T24gMTUgTWF5IDIwMTgsIGF0IDE2OjE2LCBEYXZlIFRoYWxlciA8ZHRoYWxlckBtaWNyb3NvZnQu Y29tPG1haWx0bzpkdGhhbGVyQG1pY3Jvc29mdC5jb20+PiB3cm90ZToNCg0KPj4gMi4gSW4gwqc2 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[77.146.131.25]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id f6-v6sm1272023wrj.63.2018.05.19.21.22.51 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 19 May 2018 21:22:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Anders Rundgren To: "teep@ietf.org" Message-ID: Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 06:22:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [Teep] Yet another take on TEEP signatures X-BeenThere: teep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: A Protocol for Dynamic Trusted Execution Environment Enablement List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 20 May 2018 04:22:56 -0000 As some of you know, I'm not overly convinced that shrouding your precious data in Base64Url is a great solution. In the TEEP case, it has effectively forced you adding an artificial SD object over the signed TBS object. However, there seems to be a cool way combining Detached JWS with a pretty simple JSON canonicalization scheme: https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/issues/714 Anders From nobody Tue May 22 07:41:55 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: teep@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: teep@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C939E12EB4F for ; Tue, 22 May 2018 07:41:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MPhYwV5R9tXb for ; Tue, 22 May 2018 07:41:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (dmz-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu [18.7.68.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8D5D12EB4E for ; Tue, 22 May 2018 07:41:51 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: 12074424-287ff70000006523-2e-5b042c2d4cf0 Received: from mailhub-auth-3.mit.edu ( [18.9.21.43]) (using TLS with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 21.60.25891.D2C240B5; Tue, 22 May 2018 10:41:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH-1.MIT.EDU [18.9.28.11]) by mailhub-auth-3.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id w4MEflCf020289; Tue, 22 May 2018 10:41:48 -0400 Received: from kduck.kaduk.org (24-107-191-124.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com [24.107.191.124]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.12.4) with ESMTP id w4MEfhC7005028 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 22 May 2018 10:41:46 -0400 Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 09:41:44 -0500 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Anders Rundgren Cc: "teep@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20180522144143.GJ61236@kduck.kaduk.org> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.1 (2017-09-22) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrFIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixCmqraunwxJtcKFNwOLhqyWsFkv/fGN2 YPLYOesuu8eSJT+ZApiiuGxSUnMyy1KL9O0SuDLWXPvJXPCJtWLJzM2MDYz3WboYOTkkBEwk 2lpa2LsYuTiEBBYzSRy+8g/K2cgosfb+DkYI5yqTRHvbbtYuRg4OFgFVidOv9EC62QRUJBq6 LzOD2CICxhKrLl4Fm8osoCyxd8saVhBbWMBcYvuX2ewgNi/Qti9r3oPZQgI2El9O9zJDxAUl Ts58AtWrJXHj30smkFXMAtISy/9xgIQ5BWwl3t25wQRii4KM7zvEPoFRYBaS7llIumchdC9g ZF7FKJuSW6Wbm5iZU5yarFucnJiXl1qka66Xm1mil5pSuokRFKTsLio7GLt7vA8xCnAwKvHw rhBjiRZiTSwrrsw9xCjJwaQkyhv2lDlaiC8pP6UyI7E4I76oNCe1+BCjBAezkgjvp0tM0UK8 KYmVValF+TApaQ4WJXHe3EWM0UIC6YklqdmpqQWpRTBZGQ4OJQnebdpAewSLUtNTK9Iyc0oQ 0kwcnCDDeYCG94LU8BYXJOYWZ6ZD5E8xKkqJ8/KCJARAEhmleXC9oCQikb2/5hWjONArwrw2 IFU8wAQE1/0KaDAT0OCLy5lBBpckIqSkGhh547qVPVlqxSee/pvuytxQLbblTQ5/8M2rXVOP RG7uSrP4su6sz/XZ4elpbHfyaqvOOe7hSCrONeVqOf8tr//wn/+NExa+XKlkMVFLI7jjp9bn PLajt9yeJr5Klr5nv8sxajvv0QezGpKPr+OfJiK3KmTxsqqIHMd929TrQyfe2/3xw0+vU/lK LMUZiYZazEXFiQAxftgc/QIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Teep] Yet another take on TEEP signatures X-BeenThere: teep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: A Protocol for Dynamic Trusted Execution Environment Enablement List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 14:41:54 -0000 On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 06:22:49AM +0200, Anders Rundgren wrote: > As some of you know, I'm not overly convinced that shrouding your precious data in Base64Url is a great solution. > > In the TEEP case, it has effectively forced you adding an artificial SD object over the signed TBS object. > > However, there seems to be a cool way combining Detached JWS with a pretty simple JSON canonicalization scheme: > > https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/issues/714 How does this work relate to the "Cleartext JOSE" BoF proposal that was propsed for London but withdrawn before the IESG/IAB BoF call? (IIRC one of the conclusions from the discussion at that time was that the JOSE list would be a good place to discuss the topic.) -Ben From nobody Tue May 22 08:42:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: teep@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: teep@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D282412741D for ; Tue, 22 May 2018 08:42:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wZ5srBgDPAMK for ; Tue, 22 May 2018 08:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D627127286 for ; Tue, 22 May 2018 08:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id m129-v6so1034887wmb.3 for ; Tue, 22 May 2018 08:42:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uepEBbdgRh01lTfRbXClGEWuiakShr0du6ZN5FSeLCc=; b=LN6oyZEOKGu5Gr6qYjC33OkQBZ5tVtrAgBpHmLuU9jh688ekc1O6tgT/074HyglPe1 xX/6Prz2nkQeFEsc7kHHs56HewwaLsqT07Z01N7wmFJUzQUmr3ieJI9wBKO+eF8dOP8T b6+P9HA6j4JDGPsyAFLDJ0ZAVj+lGgHLy5BBUHzqYK6TJ+nfM2wxhJwMXsyt9cyYHu2j 4g98KEeQYZNUfEMi02ua8INqHlI/QUwhBzf7KTWhJpDFUxFJWDg0duNp7llSsBlrRr6K BV64/sbVjlqZilhIdRMH7yIPKTaqgNfY1b6RL1LSXqz6Bi2VGaOYkIgLBQRl3sKv8pdR 6Wbw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=uepEBbdgRh01lTfRbXClGEWuiakShr0du6ZN5FSeLCc=; b=UBmCfnhOIVeN4o/3S7aACuwfpronIEzqHvyDlgtqP+yc165Nn0HPV1/OhS0XbRlsFH he2P7qq4U0v0uajWARYTvsdX4aY9doetr4zt8Vl2cmWmjf2+VCOzBIOfgJoQLjx2I19i Xivaa2PZP3Qmkmv7n5IaKvbIhNdSCbupjoo5kMlOapoYwXyHMcXR1s1JNHGhmvUgsphL 53TvUIv/3xr45o0cmQJ+8qusF7C6E3a25Ws/c4v3QT8b292B9LeKZBbY2orCnhJScUCt Q/VO+TK1SYESexkV4S9fuKpMwme9HYjjyLwDYI1i3Uv4N8NQ4sDYrDSQh1opT8yGYPyn PNXw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwdaHJJQnAl2FS6zZ5ozFmdV++Hij40a2WAhfO7qVFxEqRAk4LM7 A+xFbidq6/wypAsZ1lPgEn7ucg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZrBCw3d7NrLR01JDvXPUwbKFUA6WJRuMf57v08TrZbHg7qhvr5M3PyW3gmXpjc2igDZxPzngA== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:1549:: with SMTP id 70-v6mr1482659wmv.35.1527003744524; Tue, 22 May 2018 08:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.79] (25.131.146.77.rev.sfr.net. [77.146.131.25]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 135-v6sm241749wmx.21.2018.05.22.08.42.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 22 May 2018 08:42:23 -0700 (PDT) To: Benjamin Kaduk Cc: "teep@ietf.org" References: <20180522144143.GJ61236@kduck.kaduk.org> From: Anders Rundgren Message-ID: <06944cc3-422f-353d-d0b5-eca4241c4ada@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 17:42:20 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20180522144143.GJ61236@kduck.kaduk.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Teep] Yet another take on TEEP signatures X-BeenThere: teep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: A Protocol for Dynamic Trusted Execution Environment Enablement List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 15:42:30 -0000 On 2018-05-22 16:41, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 06:22:49AM +0200, Anders Rundgren wrote: >> As some of you know, I'm not overly convinced that shrouding your precious data in Base64Url is a great solution. >> >> In the TEEP case, it has effectively forced you adding an artificial SD object over the signed TBS object. >> >> However, there seems to be a cool way combining Detached JWS with a pretty simple JSON canonicalization scheme: >> >> https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/issues/714 > > How does this work relate to the "Cleartext JOSE" BoF proposal that > was propsed for London but withdrawn before the IESG/IAB BoF call? Good question! It is effectively an alternative solution to the same basic problem (base64 encoding messages is a nuisance). The primary advantages over https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-erdtman-jose-cleartext-jws-00 include: - Uses the existing JWS standard "as is" - Can be used without any changes to JSON serializers or parsers > (IIRC one of the conclusions from the discussion at that time was > that the JOSE list would be a good place to discuss the topic.) Since the mentioned draft haven't got a single comment since it was published 2 months ago, the JOSE list doesn't seem like the right forum which is why I rather posted this in TEEP who could benefit from a signature solution that doesn't interfere with applications. I hope to have a public on-line demo running by Friday. Cheers, Anders > > -Ben > From nobody Wed May 23 16:01:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: teep@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: teep@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7462812D80F for ; Wed, 23 May 2018 16:01:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=protonmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pNpEftgOelrR for ; Wed, 23 May 2018 16:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-1857040135.protonmail.ch (mail-1857040135.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C128512D7F9 for ; Wed, 23 May 2018 16:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 19:01:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=default; t=1527116493; bh=YTQACe5x+AUV9YzKt8LDTiuXQoFNUTAh38sflXrXVvs=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From; b=LQpc77kunILuWVp7XFtk2/W+SD8omYqdikG9lXhHf8b9UvCQixHSElFAsKgKdnsD9 vy/bFaHt71dpoYag3IKQRFX13eDbl/OOqQOu72mf1bsRZNb4Ru/WeFaEMVUHiXsO4K g6zdtRjFJdx12keNlyepe9V0s8MP6/dTX4k9tSuk= To: Benjamin Kaduk From: Mingliang Pei Cc: Anders Rundgren , "teep@ietf.org" Reply-To: Mingliang Pei Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20180522144143.GJ61236@kduck.kaduk.org> References: <20180522144143.GJ61236@kduck.kaduk.org> Feedback-ID: 3CUKShkgNRl4gezbHY4Li1GpNOo_gZpq-BFEQOfuw651WYbF7c31amACwTsNoj9T8I-xyt7F2DVLlloxDzOW5A==:Ext:ProtonMail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Teep] Yet another take on TEEP signatures X-BeenThere: teep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: A Protocol for Dynamic Trusted Execution Environment Enablement List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 23:01:42 -0000 Hi Anders, Thanks for your comments; yes, I didn't forget your suggestions. We underst= ood that a detached signature would make the message more intuitive and fri= endly. On the other hand, more importantly, I consider it is more important= to leverage existing standards that have been endorsed for ease of interop= erability in implementation without overarching into the messaging signing = format itself in this protocol spec. If detached JSON signing can get endor= sed as a standard format in future we can add a message profiling draft at = the time to also support the new signing format. For now, I would suggest t= hat we stay with format that is compliant with the current JWS and JWE for = better interoperability. Thanks, Ming =E2=80=8BSent with ProtonMail Secure Email.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On May 22, 2018 7:41 AM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 06:22:49AM +0200, Anders Rundgren wrote: >=20 > > As some of you know, I'm not overly convinced that shrouding your preci= ous data in Base64Url is a great solution. > >=20 > > In the TEEP case, it has effectively forced you adding an artificial SD= object over the signed TBS object. > >=20 > > However, there seems to be a cool way combining Detached JWS with a pre= tty simple JSON canonicalization scheme: > >=20 > > https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/issues/714 >=20 > How does this work relate to the "Cleartext JOSE" BoF proposal that >=20 > was propsed for London but withdrawn before the IESG/IAB BoF call? >=20 > (IIRC one of the conclusions from the discussion at that time was >=20 > that the JOSE list would be a good place to discuss the topic.) >=20 > -Ben >=20 > TEEP mailing list >=20 > TEEP@ietf.org >=20 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teep From nobody Wed May 23 18:10:20 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: teep@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: teep@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9549512D88F for ; Wed, 23 May 2018 18:10:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.309 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.309 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=symantec.com header.b=bfy51JVf; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=symantec.com header.b=qhy9bkNn Received: from 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ADUXVKLL0q7osGctV9iFr426F7xGbwoecqTM5poSx+/HctxqfeJOhl5MrpnLFWRiDFtbNhtUdy1iEQ== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:7204:: with SMTP id n4-v6mr727800wmc.138.1527232093269; Fri, 25 May 2018 00:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.79] (25.131.146.77.rev.sfr.net. [77.146.131.25]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id x130-v6sm8584024wme.24.2018.05.25.00.08.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 25 May 2018 00:08:12 -0700 (PDT) To: Mingliang Pei , Benjamin Kaduk Cc: "teep@ietf.org" References: <20180522144143.GJ61236@kduck.kaduk.org> From: Anders Rundgren Message-ID: <262dd456-9e2b-df5a-e649-70ddfdc25182@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 09:08:09 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Teep] Yet another take on TEEP signatures X-BeenThere: teep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: A Protocol for Dynamic Trusted Execution Environment Enablement List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 07:08:18 -0000 On 2018-05-24 01:01, Mingliang Pei wrote: > Hi Anders, > > Thanks for your comments; yes, I didn't forget your suggestions. We understood that a detached signature would make the message more intuitive and friendly. Right, in your case it would also remove a *redundant message layer*. The only "non-standard" feature is a canonicalization scheme while JWS is used exactly as described in RFC 7515. Since usable standards seldom gain by being created in "absolute vacuum", I would be very happy working with you and the TEEP WG to make this a reality. The core piece needed (canonicalization) is already available for ECMAscript, Java, Python3 and .NET. Documentation: https://github.com/cyberphone/jws-jcs#combining-detached-jws-with-jcs-json-canonicalization-scheme On-line demo: https://mobilepki.org/jws-jcs/home In case you would reconsider this as a viable option, I could imagine meeting at IETF-102. Thanx Anders On the other hand, more importantly, I consider it is more important to leverage existing standards that have been endorsed for ease of interoperability in implementation without overarching into the messaging signing format itself in this protocol spec. If detached JSON signing can get endorsed as a standard format in future we can add a message profiling draft at the time to also support the new signing format. For now, I would suggest that we stay with format that is compliant with the current JWS and JWE for better interoperability. > > Thanks, > > Ming > > ​Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.​ > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > > On May 22, 2018 7:41 AM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > >> On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 06:22:49AM +0200, Anders Rundgren wrote: >> >>> As some of you know, I'm not overly convinced that shrouding your precious data in Base64Url is a great solution. >>> >>> In the TEEP case, it has effectively forced you adding an artificial SD object over the signed TBS object. >>> >>> However, there seems to be a cool way combining Detached JWS with a pretty simple JSON canonicalization scheme: >>> >>> https://github.com/w3c/payment-request/issues/714 >> >> How does this work relate to the "Cleartext JOSE" BoF proposal that >> >> was propsed for London but withdrawn before the IESG/IAB BoF call? >> >> (IIRC one of the conclusions from the discussion at that time was >> >> that the JOSE list would be a good place to discuss the topic.) >> >> -Ben >> >> TEEP mailing list >> >> TEEP@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teep > > From nobody Thu May 31 21:37:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: teep@ietf.org Delivered-To: teep@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE042126C0F; Thu, 31 May 2018 21:36:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: nance@winget.net, teep@ietf.org, kaduk@mit.edu, teep-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <152782781867.15324.4537092949858591992.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 21:36:58 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Teep] teep - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 102 X-BeenThere: teep@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: A Protocol for Dynamic Trusted Execution Environment Enablement List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 04:36:59 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Nancy Cam-Winget, a Chair of the teep working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Trusted Execution Environment Provisioning Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Nancy Cam-Winget Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 75 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: suit t2trg sacm ace core mile Second Priority: tls saag v6ops 6man intarea anima Third Priority: doh dots People who must be present: Dave Thaler Nancy Cam-Winget Benjamin Kaduk Resources Requested: Special Requests: ---------------------------------------------------------