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From: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
To: "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Reminder: Doodle poll for virtual interim
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Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2020 13:07:58 +0000
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Subject: [Teep] Reminder: Doodle poll for virtual interim
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From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>, "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
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Subject: Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
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I opened one pull request for editorial issues (https://github.com/ietf-tee=
p/architecture/pull/109),
and filed seven other issues listed at https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues

110) Service Provider discussion is confusing<https://github.com/ietf-teep/=
architecture/issues/110>
111) Terminology section is not consistently ordered<https://github.com/iet=
f-teep/architecture/issues/111>
112) Text about carriers is confusing<https://github.com/ietf-teep/architec=
ture/issues/112>
113) Section 6.2.3 contradicts section 4.2<https://github.com/ietf-teep/arc=
hitecture/issues/113>
114) Figure 3 is too hard to understand<https://github.com/ietf-teep/archit=
ecture/issues/114>
115) Reference to IANA number<https://github.com/ietf-teep/architecture/iss=
ues/115>
116) Incorrect/obsolete statements about TEEP Broker<https://github.com/iet=
f-teep/architecture/issues/116>

I have ideas about how to address all of them, but if others have comments,=
 please speak up.

The possibly(?) contentious one might be that in #110 I am proposing to use=
 the term
"App Developer" throughout, instead of using "Service Provider" in some pla=
ces and "App Developer" in others
and then saying they're synonymous like it does now.   (I'd be ok with ment=
ioning that in some contexts an App Developer
might be known as a "Service Provider" if that is important to GlobalPlatfo=
rm folks.)

Dave

From: TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 4:17 AM
To: teep@ietf.org
Subject: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture

Hi all,

This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) for TEEP architecture.  T=
he version to be reviewed is https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-ar=
chitecture-05<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3=
A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-teep-architecture-05&data=3D02%7C=
01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7C88bfc467b880468e461e08d787a2196d%7C72f988bf8=
6f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637127002642640827&sdata=3DaallqAzJH3MqV2=
bbzMzwvD3OXhpRFyPJVHeaWye4x40%3D&reserved=3D0>

The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 January 2020.

Please send your comments to the list before this date and your assessment =
of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publication.

Regards,
Tiru & Nancy

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I opened one pull request for editorial issues<span =
style=3D"color:#1F497D"> (<a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/architect=
ure/pull/109">https://github.com/ietf-teep/architecture/pull/109</a>),
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and filed seven other issues listed at <span style=
=3D"color:#1F497D">
<a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/architecture/issues">https://github=
.com/ietf-teep/architecture/issues</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">110) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/110">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Service Provider discussion is confusing</span></a><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">111) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/111">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Terminology section is not consistently ordered</spa=
n></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">112) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/112">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Text about carriers is confusing</span></a><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">113) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/113">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Section 6.2.3 contradicts section 4.2</span></a><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">114) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/114">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Figure 3 is too hard to understand</span></a><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">115) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/115">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:#24292E;te=
xt-decoration:none">Reference to IANA number</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">116) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/116">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:#24292E;te=
xt-decoration:none">Incorrect/obsolete statements about TEEP Broker</span><=
/a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have ideas about how to address all of them, but i=
f others have comments, please speak up.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The possibly(?) contentious one might be that in #11=
0 I am proposing to use the term<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8220;App Developer&#8221; throughout, instead of u=
sing &#8220;Service Provider&#8221; in some places and &#8220;App Developer=
&#8221; in others<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and then saying they&#8217;re synonymous like it doe=
s now.&nbsp;&nbsp; (I&#8217;d be ok with mentioning that in some contexts a=
n App Developer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">might be known as a &#8220;Service Provider&#8221; i=
f that is important to GlobalPlatform folks.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dave<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> TEEP &lt;teep-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>O=
n Behalf Of </b>
Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 23, 2019 4:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> teep@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architec=
ture<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) fo=
r TEEP architecture. &nbsp;The version to be reviewed is
<a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-teep-architecture-05&amp;data=3D02%7=
C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7C88bfc467b880468e461e08d787a2196d%7C72f988bf=
86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637127002642640827&amp;sdata=3DaallqAzJH=
3MqV2bbzMzwvD3OXhpRFyPJVHeaWye4x40%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-architecture-05</a> <o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 Ja=
nuary 2020.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please send your comments to the list before this da=
te and your assessment of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publicat=
ion.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tiru &amp; Nancy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>
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Subject: Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
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[As an individual]

Hi Dave,



I have reviewed the draft and have comments and nits listed below:



a) It is not clear from the Introduction how TEE is different from a Closed=
 OS like Google Chromebook or Windows 10S ?

     The benefit of Payment application running in Closed OS verses in TEE =
is not evident from the description. What part of the Payment application r=
uns in the REE and TEE respectively ?

     If biometric identification information is securely stored in TEE for =
identification, how does the TEE identify the biometric identification info=
rmation is not retrieved by an malicious agent in the REE.

     Section 3.3 (Internet of things), How does the architecture ensure the=
 sensitive data is retrieved by a legitimate application in the REE and not=
 by an malicious application ?



b) Why should the list of trust anchors on the device be managed by the Dev=
ice's network carrier ?

     (you may want to define the term "network carrier").



c) If the REE is compromised (for example by malware), it could terminate t=
he TEEP broker in REE. How is this attack mitigated ?



d) What happens if the malicious agent acting as TEEP broker launches attac=
ks (e.g. garbage data, replay attack, DoS of messages etc.,) on the TEEP ag=
ent, and how will the TEEP agent defend itself ?



e) The below line is not clear to me:

Enumeration and access to the appropriate TEEP Broker is up to the Rich Exe=
cution Environment and the Untrusted Applications.



h) A use case explaining the use of multiple TAM, multiple TEEP brokers on =
a device, and multiple TEE would be useful to the reader of the specificati=
on.



i) When a TEEP Broker receives a request from an Untrusted Application

   to install a TA, a list of TAM URIs may be provided for that TA, and

   the request is passed to the TEEP Agent.  If the TEEP Agent decides

   that the TA needs to be installed, the TEEP Agent selects a single

   TAM URI that is consistent with the list of trusted TAMs provisioned

   on the device invokes the HTTP transport for TEEP to connect to the

   TAM URI and begins a TEEP protocol exchange.



Comment> I am not sure why the architecture draft is discussing the protoco=
l aspects like HTTP for TEEP ?



j) What if the malware in REE instructs the TEEP agent via TEEP broker to k=
eep installing/uninstalling TA (over-whelm the TEEP agent and TEE or instal=
ling un-necessary TA to have no memory for the required TA) ?



i) What is the use case for "Personalization data" ?



j) Why is Section 4.5 discussing Case 1 when it not in use ?



k) The below line is not clear to me (please elaborate):

Consequently, a TAM generally communicates with an Untrusted Application ab=
out how it gets messages that originate from a TEE inside a device.



l) What is the use case for one TA and multiple SP ?



m) what is the use case for keeping the TA binary secret from the TAM ?



n) We allow a way for an Untrusted Application to check the trustworthiness=
 of a TA.



Comment> You may want to re-phrase the above line, and remove "we".



o) A notification that an incoming TEEP session is being requested by a TEE=
P Agent.



Comment> What you meant by "incoming TEEP session" ?



p) How does the TEEP broker communicate with the TEEP agent ?



q) Section 5.3 says the architecture uses PKI but Section 9.1 discusses sel=
f-signed certificates. Please fix.



r) In Figure 4, for the purpose of "Code signing" my understanding is the l=
ocation of corresponding CA certs is both TEE and TAM.



s)I have seen several malicious apps in App store in both Android and iOS, =
it is possible for an malicious App developer to publish both malicious unt=
rusted applications

   and malicious trusted applications.  I don't think the TEEP architecture=
 prevents this attack and it is the responsibility of TAM and App store to =
remove such apps

    (see https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2018/01/how-we-fought-ba=
d-apps-and-malicious.html)



Cheers,

-Tiru


From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:44 AM
To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>; teep@ie=
tf.org
Subject: RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture


CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you =
recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

________________________________
I opened one pull request for editorial issues (https://github.com/ietf-tee=
p/architecture/pull/109),
and filed seven other issues listed at https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues

110) Service Provider discussion is confusing<https://github.com/ietf-teep/=
architecture/issues/110>
111) Terminology section is not consistently ordered<https://github.com/iet=
f-teep/architecture/issues/111>
112) Text about carriers is confusing<https://github.com/ietf-teep/architec=
ture/issues/112>
113) Section 6.2.3 contradicts section 4.2<https://github.com/ietf-teep/arc=
hitecture/issues/113>
114) Figure 3 is too hard to understand<https://github.com/ietf-teep/archit=
ecture/issues/114>
115) Reference to IANA number<https://github.com/ietf-teep/architecture/iss=
ues/115>
116) Incorrect/obsolete statements about TEEP Broker<https://github.com/iet=
f-teep/architecture/issues/116>

I have ideas about how to address all of them, but if others have comments,=
 please speak up.

The possibly(?) contentious one might be that in #110 I am proposing to use=
 the term
"App Developer" throughout, instead of using "Service Provider" in some pla=
ces and "App Developer" in others
and then saying they're synonymous like it does now.   (I'd be ok with ment=
ioning that in some contexts an App Developer
might be known as a "Service Provider" if that is important to GlobalPlatfo=
rm folks.)

Dave

From: TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 4:17 AM
To: teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>
Subject: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture

Hi all,

This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) for TEEP architecture.  T=
he version to be reviewed is https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-ar=
chitecture-05<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3=
A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-teep-architecture-05&data=3D02%7C=
01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7C88bfc467b880468e461e08d787a2196d%7C72f988bf8=
6f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637127002642640827&sdata=3DaallqAzJH3MqV2=
bbzMzwvD3OXhpRFyPJVHeaWye4x40%3D&reserved=3D0>

The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 January 2020.

Please send your comments to the list before this date and your assessment =
of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publication.

Regards,
Tiru & Nancy

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[As an individual]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Dave,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I have reviewed the draft and have comments and n=
its listed below:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">a) It is not clear from the Introduction how TEE =
is different from a Closed OS like Google Chromebook or Windows 10S ?<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;The benefit of Payment a=
pplication running in Closed OS verses in TEE is not evident from the descr=
iption. What part of the Payment application runs in the REE and TEE respec=
tively ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If biometric identificat=
ion information is securely stored in TEE for identification, how does the =
TEE identify the biometric identification information is not retrieved by a=
n malicious agent in the REE.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Section 3.3 (Internet of=
 things), How does the architecture ensure the sensitive data is retrieved =
by a legitimate application in the REE and not by an malicious application =
? &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">b) Why should the list of trust anchors on the de=
vice be managed by the Device's network carrier ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (you may want to define =
the term &quot;network carrier&quot;).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">c) If the REE is compromised (for example by malw=
are), it could terminate the TEEP broker in REE. How is this attack mitigat=
ed ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">d) What happens if the malicious agent acting as =
TEEP broker launches attacks (e.g. garbage data, replay attack, DoS of mess=
ages etc.,) on the TEEP agent, and how will the TEEP agent defend itself ?<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">e) The below line is not clear to me:<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Enumeration and access to the appropriate TEEP Br=
oker is up to the Rich Execution Environment and the Untrusted Applications=
.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">h) A use case explaining the use of multiple TAM,=
 multiple TEEP brokers on a device, and multiple TEE would be useful to the=
 reader of the specification.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">i) When a TEEP Broker receives a request from an =
Untrusted Application<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; to install a TA, a list of TAM URIs =
may be provided for that TA, and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; the request is passed to the TEEP Ag=
ent.&nbsp; If the TEEP Agent decides<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; that the TA needs to be installed, t=
he TEEP Agent selects a single<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; TAM URI that is consistent with the =
list of trusted TAMs provisioned<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; on the device invokes the HTTP trans=
port for TEEP to connect to the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; TAM URI and begins a TEEP protocol e=
xchange.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Comment&gt; I am not sure why the architecture dr=
aft is discussing the protocol aspects like HTTP for TEEP ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">j) What if the malware in REE instructs the TEEP =
agent via TEEP broker to keep installing/uninstalling TA (over-whelm the TE=
EP agent and TEE or installing un-necessary TA to have no memory for the re=
quired TA) ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">i) What is the use case for &quot;Personalization=
 data&quot; ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">j) Why is Section 4.5 discussing Case 1 when it n=
ot in use ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">k) The below line is not clear to me (please elab=
orate):<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Consequently, a TAM generally communicates with a=
n Untrusted Application about how it gets messages that originate from a TE=
E inside a device.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">l) What is the use case for one TA and multiple S=
P ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">m) what is the use case for keeping the TA binary=
 secret from the TAM ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">n) We allow a way for an Untrusted Application to=
 check the trustworthiness of a TA.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Comment&gt; You may want to re-phrase the above l=
ine, and remove &quot;we&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">o) A notification that an incoming TEEP session i=
s being requested by a TEEP Agent.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Comment&gt; What you meant by &quot;incoming TEEP=
 session&quot; ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">p) How does the TEEP broker communicate with the =
TEEP agent ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">q) Section 5.3 says the architecture uses PKI but=
 Section 9.1 discusses self-signed certificates. Please fix.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">r) In Figure 4, for the purpose of &quot;Code sig=
ning&quot; my understanding is the location of corresponding CA certs is bo=
th TEE and TAM.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">s)I have seen several malicious apps in App store=
 in both Android and iOS, it is possible for an malicious App developer to =
publish both malicious untrusted applications
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and malicious trusted applicati=
ons.&nbsp; I don't think the TEEP architecture prevents this attack and it =
is the responsibility of TAM and App store to remove such apps
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(see <a href=3D"https://a=
ndroid-developers.googleblog.com/2018/01/how-we-fought-bad-apps-and-malicio=
us.html">
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2018/01/how-we-fought-bad-apps-an=
d-malicious.html</a>)
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-Tiru<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Thaler &lt;dthaler@microsoft.com&g=
t; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy &lt;TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com=
&gt;; teep@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"1" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" style=3D"background:#F3FF33;border:solid #9B9A87 1.5pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border:none;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#9=
B8B3E">CAUTION</span></strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#9B8B3E">:</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&qu=
ot;,sans-serif;color:black"> External email. Do not click links or open
 attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.<=
/span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I opened one pull request for editorial issues<span =
style=3D"color:#1F497D"> (<a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/architect=
ure/pull/109">https://github.com/ietf-teep/architecture/pull/109</a>),
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and filed seven other issues listed at <span style=
=3D"color:#1F497D">
<a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/architecture/issues">https://github=
.com/ietf-teep/architecture/issues</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">110) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/110">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Service Provider discussion is confusing</span></a><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">111) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/111">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Terminology section is not consistently ordered</spa=
n></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">112) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/112">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Text about carriers is confusing</span></a><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">113) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/113">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Section 6.2.3 contradicts section 4.2</span></a><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">114) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/114">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Figure 3 is too hard to understand</span></a><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">115) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/115">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:#24292E;te=
xt-decoration:none">Reference to IANA number</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">116) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/116">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:#24292E;te=
xt-decoration:none">Incorrect/obsolete statements about TEEP Broker</span><=
/a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have ideas about how to address all of them, but i=
f others have comments, please speak up.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The possibly(?) contentious one might be that in #11=
0 I am proposing to use the term<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8220;App Developer&#8221; throughout, instead of u=
sing &#8220;Service Provider&#8221; in some places and &#8220;App Developer=
&#8221; in others<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and then saying they&#8217;re synonymous like it doe=
s now.&nbsp;&nbsp; (I&#8217;d be ok with mentioning that in some contexts a=
n App Developer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">might be known as a &#8220;Service Provider&#8221; i=
f that is important to GlobalPlatform folks.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dave<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> TEEP &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:teep-bounces=
@ietf.org">teep-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 23, 2019 4:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:teep@ietf.org">teep@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architec=
ture<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) fo=
r TEEP architecture. &nbsp;The version to be reviewed is
<a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-teep-architecture-05&amp;data=3D02%7=
C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7C88bfc467b880468e461e08d787a2196d%7C72f988bf=
86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637127002642640827&amp;sdata=3DaallqAzJH=
3MqV2bbzMzwvD3OXhpRFyPJVHeaWye4x40%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-architecture-05</a> <o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 Ja=
nuary 2020.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please send your comments to the list before this da=
te and your assessment of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publicat=
ion.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tiru &amp; Nancy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>, Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>, "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
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Hi Tiru,

Thanks for the review. There is clearly room for improving the write-up.

A few remarks below.

From: TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 7:39 AM
To: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>; teep@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e


[As an individual]

Hi Dave,



I have reviewed the draft and have comments and nits listed below:



a) It is not clear from the Introduction how TEE is different from a Closed=
 OS like Google Chromebook or Windows 10S ?

     The benefit of Payment application running in Closed OS verses in TEE =
is not evident from the description. What part of the Payment application r=
uns in the REE and TEE respectively ?

     If biometric identification information is securely stored in TEE for =
identification, how does the TEE identify the biometric identification info=
rmation is not retrieved by an malicious agent in the REE.

     Section 3.3 (Internet of things), How does the architecture ensure the=
 sensitive data is retrieved by a legitimate application in the REE and not=
 by an malicious application ?



[Hannes] The TEE adds another layer of software isolation. To protect one T=
A to steal data from another TA the two TAs need to be isolated against eac=
h other. Depending on the TEE technology you are using this is accomplished=
 via different means.



It is up to the application developer to decide how they best want to separ=
ate the REE and the TEE part, which in part depends a bit on what type of p=
ayment protocol they are using. In some other cases (probably more realisti=
c) they may be using an already existing payment system, which is provided =
as a TA, and they are just using it. In general, it does not strike me as a=
 great idea to have random smart phone app developers writing their own pay=
ment software.



b) Why should the list of trust anchors on the device be managed by the Dev=
ice's network carrier ?

     (you may want to define the term "network carrier").



[Hannes] The text says the following:



"
The list of Trust Anchors is normally modifiable
      by the Device's owner or Device Administrator.  However the Device
      manufacturer and network carrier may restrict some modifications,
      for example, by not allowing the manufacturer or carrier's Trust
      Anchor to be removed or disabled.

"



This describes current practice in the mobile phone industry and may not ne=
cessarily be applicable to other deployment scenarios. Hence, there is no r=
equired behavior here.





c) If the REE is compromised (for example by malware), it could terminate t=
he TEEP broker in REE. How is this attack mitigated ?



[Hannes] If the REE is compromised then that's typically not a good thing b=
ut the REE side still cannot access anything on the secure world, if implem=
ented correctly. It could, however, indeed terminate the TEEP broker and av=
oid any calls to the secure world. This would be a DoS attack. It would be =
possible to periodically schedule an interrupt that is processed by the sec=
ure world to let the secure world double-check the state of the normal worl=
d.



d) What happens if the malicious agent acting as TEEP broker launches attac=
ks (e.g. garbage data, replay attack, DoS of messages etc.,) on the TEEP ag=
ent, and how will the TEEP agent defend itself ?



[Hannes] The TEEP agent dispatches calls to the trusted applications. It is=
 typically a shim layer that just checks parameters of the requests and the=
n relays them to the TAs. Having a rock solid implementation of the TEEP ag=
ent is important and of course the TAs need to be implemented properly as w=
ell.



The GP TEE Client API is meant to provide a reference design for an API tha=
t allows data passing back and forth. So, implementing that API properly wi=
ll be important. This is why there is this open source project to implement=
 that API so that other developers can just use it.





e) The below line is not clear to me:

Enumeration and access to the appropriate TEEP Broker is up to the Rich Exe=
cution Environment and the Untrusted Applications..



[Hannes] There may be multiple TEEP Brokers on the system and the interacti=
on between untrusted apps and the TEEP broker is up to a policy implemented=
 by the developer.



h) A use case explaining the use of multiple TAM, multiple TEEP brokers on =
a device, and multiple TEE would be useful to the reader of the specificati=
on.



[Hannes] Definitely a good idea to add text with use cases.

Here is my quick response:



  *   Multiple TAMs: you could think about this as having multiple code rep=
ositories. Different SPs may prefer to use certain TAMs for their software =
distribution.
  *   Multiple TEEP brokers: this can occur when you have a broker offered =
by the OS and one bundled with the untrusted app.
  *   Multiple TEEs: This depends on the TEE technology. In the TrustZone c=
ase you may have a multi-processor system and each processor comes with Tru=
stZone support.



i) When a TEEP Broker receives a request from an Untrusted Application

   to install a TA, a list of TAM URIs may be provided for that TA, and

   the request is passed to the TEEP Agent.  If the TEEP Agent decides

   that the TA needs to be installed, the TEEP Agent selects a single

   TAM URI that is consistent with the list of trusted TAMs provisioned

   on the device invokes the HTTP transport for TEEP to connect to the

   TAM URI and begins a TEEP protocol exchange.



Comment> I am not sure why the architecture draft is discussing the protoco=
l aspects like HTTP for TEEP ?



[Hannes] I believe it does not need to mention HTTP but it could list it as=
 an example.



j) What if the malware in REE instructs the TEEP agent via TEEP broker to k=
eep installing/uninstalling TA (over-whelm the TEEP agent and TEE or instal=
ling un-necessary TA to have no memory for the required TA) ?



[Hannes] Having a compromised REE environment that causes all sorts of apps=
 to be installed is possible (assuming the TEE is authorizing the installat=
ion of those apps). An implementation of the secure world, most likely the =
TEE OS, will have to make sure that the device does not install TAs and ove=
rwrite the memory space they have been configured to use.



i) What is the use case for "Personalization data" ?



[Hannes] Personalization data is meant to make each instance of the TA uniq=
ue and potentially tie it to a specific user. Imagine a TA that implements =
biometric functionality: there has to be something in TA that relates this =
instance of the TA to a specific human, for example by storing a fingerprin=
t alongside the TA as configuration data.



j) Why is Section 4.5 discussing Case 1 when it not in use ?



[Hannes] We just describe the possible approach and illustrates how things =
are done today. There is, however, a lot of development going on in the are=
a of TEEs and I suspect that we will see all sorts of different use cases s=
howing up in the future as the technology gets used in different environmen=
ts.





k) The below line is not clear to me (please elaborate):

Consequently, a TAM generally communicates with an Untrusted Application ab=
out how it gets messages that originate from a TEE inside a device.



[Hannes] The key point of that paragraph is that today TEEs do not communic=
ate with the outside world but require the cooperation with something on th=
e REE side.



l) What is the use case for one TA and multiple SP ?



[Hannes] I am not sure. I let Ming, DaveW, or DaveT respond.



m) what is the use case for keeping the TA binary secret from the TAM ?



[Hannes] it is more and more common today to protect binaries from inspecti=
on because this gives attackers a lot of information. If you don't want to =
use it and only sign the binaries that's fine too. But the option is there =
for you to protect the confidentiality of the binary.



n) We allow a way for an Untrusted Application to check the trustworthiness=
 of a TA.



Comment> You may want to re-phrase the above line, and remove "we".



[Hannes] I think we should delete this paragraph:

"

   We allow a way for an Untrusted Application to check the

   trustworthiness of a TA.  A TEEP Broker has a function to allow an

   application to query the information about a TA.

"





o) A notification that an incoming TEEP session is being requested by a TEE=
P Agent.



Comment> What you meant by "incoming TEEP session" ?



[Hannes] Dave should respond to this one because it relates to the HTTP tra=
nsport, I believe.



p) How does the TEEP broker communicate with the TEEP agent ?



[Hannes] Via an API, for example the GP TEEP Client API.



q) Section 5.3 says the architecture uses PKI but Section 9.1 discusses sel=
f-signed certificates. Please fix.



[Hannes] We need to clarify the statement about the self-signed TA binaries=
.



r) In Figure 4, for the purpose of "Code signing" my understanding is the l=
ocation of corresponding CA certs is both TEE and TAM.



[Hannes] I believe it would be useful to also store the CA cert that is use=
d for code signing at the TAM because then it can verify the signed TAs.

If we indeed believe the text in Section 9.1 is correct then that code sign=
ing CA cert also needs to be made available to the TEEP Broker and potentia=
lly even to the untrusted app.



s)I have seen several malicious apps in App store in both Android and iOS, =
it is possible for an malicious App developer to publish both malicious unt=
rusted applications

   and malicious trusted applications.  I don't think the TEEP architecture=
 prevents this attack and it is the responsibility of TAM and App store to =
remove such apps

    (see https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2018/01/how-we-fought-ba=
d-apps-and-malicious.html)



[Hannes] Yes, it would be the responsibility of the TAM, the device manufac=
turer and the SP / developer to ensure that they do not distribute maliciou=
s TAs.



Ciao

Hannes



Cheers,

-Tiru


From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com<mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:44 AM
To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com<mailto:Ti=
rumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>>; teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture


CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you =
recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

________________________________
I opened one pull request for editorial issues (https://github.com/ietf-tee=
p/architecture/pull/109),
and filed seven other issues listed at https://github..com/ietf-teep/archit=
ecture/issues<https://github.com/ietf-teep/architecture/issues>

110) Service Provider discussion is confusing<https://github.com/ietf-teep/=
architecture/issues/110>
111) Terminology section is not consistently ordered<https://github.com/iet=
f-teep/architecture/issues/111>
112) Text about carriers is confusing<https://github.com/ietf-teep/architec=
ture/issues/112>
113) Section 6.2.3 contradicts section 4.2<https://github.com/ietf-teep/arc=
hitecture/issues/113>
114) Figure 3 is too hard to understand<https://github.com/ietf-teep/archit=
ecture/issues/114>
115) Reference to IANA number<https://github.com/ietf-teep/architecture/iss=
ues/115>
116) Incorrect/obsolete statements about TEEP Broker<https://github.com/iet=
f-teep/architecture/issues/116>

I have ideas about how to address all of them, but if others have comments,=
 please speak up.

The possibly(?) contentious one might be that in #110 I am proposing to use=
 the term
"App Developer" throughout, instead of using "Service Provider" in some pla=
ces and "App Developer" in others
and then saying they're synonymous like it does now.   (I'd be ok with ment=
ioning that in some contexts an App Developer
might be known as a "Service Provider" if that is important to GlobalPlatfo=
rm folks.)

Dave

From: TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 4:17 AM
To: teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>
Subject: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture

Hi all,

This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) for TEEP architecture.  T=
he version to be reviewed is https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-ar=
chitecture-05<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3=
A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-teep-architecture-05&data=3D02%7C=
01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7C88bfc467b880468e461e08d787a2196d%7C72f988bf8=
6f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637127002642640827&sdata=3DaallqAzJH3MqV2=
bbzMzwvD3OXhpRFyPJVHeaWye4x40%3D&reserved=3D0>

The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 January 2020.

Please send your comments to the list before this date and your assessment =
of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publication.

Regards,
Tiru & Nancy
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid=
ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p=
lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any=
 other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in =
any medium. Thank you.

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Tiru, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks for the review. There is clearly room for imp=
roving the write-up.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A few remarks below. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> TEEP &lt;teep-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>O=
n Behalf Of </b>
Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 7, 2020 7:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dave Thaler &lt;dthaler@microsoft.com&gt;; teep@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-arch=
itecture<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[As an individual]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Dave,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I have reviewed the draft and have comments and n=
its listed below:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">a) It is not clear from the Introduction how TEE =
is different from a Closed OS like Google Chromebook or Windows 10S ?<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;The benefit of Payment a=
pplication running in Closed OS verses in TEE is not evident from the descr=
iption. What part of the Payment application runs in the REE and TEE respec=
tively ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If biometric identificat=
ion information is securely stored in TEE for identification, how does the =
TEE identify the biometric identification information is not retrieved by a=
n malicious agent in the REE.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Section 3.3 (Internet of=
 things), How does the architecture ensure the sensitive data is retrieved =
by a legitimate application in the REE and not by an malicious application =
? &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] The TEE adds another layer of software i=
solation. To protect one TA to steal data from another TA the two TAs need =
to be isolated against each other. Depending on the TEE technology you are =
using this is accomplished via different
 means. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">It is up to the application developer to decide h=
ow they best want to separate the REE and the TEE part, which in part depen=
ds a bit on what type of payment protocol they are using. In some other cas=
es (probably more realistic) they
 may be using an already existing payment system, which is provided as a TA=
, and they are just using it. In general, it does not strike me as a great =
idea to have random smart phone app developers writing their own payment so=
ftware.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">b) Why should the list of trust anchors on the de=
vice be managed by the Device's network carrier ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (you may want to define =
the term &quot;network carrier&quot;).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] The text says the following: <o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&#8220;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">The list of Trust Anchors is normally modifiab=
le<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; by the Device's=
 owner or Device Administrator.&nbsp; However the Device<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; manufacturer an=
d network carrier may restrict some modifications,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; for example, by=
 not allowing the manufacturer or carrier's Trust<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Anchor to be re=
moved or disabled.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&#8220;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">This describes current practice in the mobile pho=
ne industry and may not necessarily be applicable to other deployment scena=
rios. Hence, there is no required behavior here.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">c) If the REE is compromised (for example by malw=
are), it could terminate the TEEP broker in REE. How is this attack mitigat=
ed ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] If the REE is compromised then that&#821=
7;s typically not a good thing but the REE side still cannot access anythin=
g on the secure world, if implemented correctly. It could, however, indeed =
terminate the TEEP broker and avoid any
 calls to the secure world. This would be a DoS attack. It would be possibl=
e to periodically schedule an interrupt that is processed by the secure wor=
ld to let the secure world double-check the state of the normal world.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">d) What happens if the malicious agent acting as =
TEEP broker launches attacks (e.g. garbage data, replay attack, DoS of mess=
ages etc.,) on the TEEP agent, and how will the TEEP agent defend itself ?<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] The TEEP agent dispatches calls to the t=
rusted applications. It is typically a shim layer that just checks paramete=
rs of the requests and then relays them to the TAs. Having a rock solid imp=
lementation of the TEEP agent is important
 and of course the TAs need to be implemented properly as well. <o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">The GP TEE Client API is meant to provide a refer=
ence design for an API that allows data passing back and forth. So, impleme=
nting that API properly will be important. This is why there is this open s=
ource project to implement that API
 so that other developers can just use it. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">e) The below line is not clear to me:<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Enumeration and access to the appropriate TEEP Br=
oker is up to the Rich Execution Environment and the Untrusted Applications=
..<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] There may be multiple TEEP Brokers on th=
e system and the interaction between untrusted apps and the TEEP broker is =
up to a policy implemented by the developer.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">h) A use case explaining the use of multiple TAM,=
 multiple TEEP brokers on a device, and multiple TEE would be useful to the=
 reader of the specification.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] Definitely a good idea to add text with =
use cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Here is my quick response: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Multiple TAMs:=
 you could think about this as having multiple code repositories. Different=
 SPs may prefer to use certain TAMs for their software distribution.
<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1=
">Multiple TEEP brokers: this can occur when you have a broker offered by t=
he OS and one bundled with the untrusted app.
<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1=
">Multiple TEEs: This depends on the TEE technology. In the TrustZone case =
you may have a multi-processor system and each processor comes with TrustZo=
ne support.
<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">i) When a TEEP Broker receives a request from an =
Untrusted Application<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; to install a TA, a list of TAM URIs =
may be provided for that TA, and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; the request is passed to the TEEP Ag=
ent.&nbsp; If the TEEP Agent decides<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; that the TA needs to be installed, t=
he TEEP Agent selects a single<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; TAM URI that is consistent with the =
list of trusted TAMs provisioned<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; on the device invokes the HTTP trans=
port for TEEP to connect to the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp; TAM URI and begins a TEEP protocol e=
xchange.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Comment&gt; I am not sure why the architecture dr=
aft is discussing the protocol aspects like HTTP for TEEP ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] I believe it does not need to mention HT=
TP but it could list it as an example.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">j) What if the malware in REE instructs the TEEP =
agent via TEEP broker to keep installing/uninstalling TA (over-whelm the TE=
EP agent and TEE or installing un-necessary TA to have no memory for the re=
quired TA) ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] Having a compromised REE environment tha=
t causes all sorts of apps to be installed is possible (assuming the TEE is=
 authorizing the installation of those apps). An implementation of the secu=
re world, most likely the TEE OS,
 will have to make sure that the device does not install TAs and overwrite =
the memory space they have been configured to use.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">i) What is the use case for &quot;Personalization=
 data&quot; ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] Personalization data is meant to make ea=
ch instance of the TA unique and potentially tie it to a specific user. Ima=
gine a TA that implements biometric functionality: there has to be somethin=
g in TA that relates this instance
 of the TA to a specific human, for example by storing a fingerprint alongs=
ide the TA as configuration data.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">j) Why is Section 4.5 discussing Case 1 when it n=
ot in use ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] We just describe the possible approach a=
nd illustrates how things are done today. There is, however, a lot of devel=
opment going on in the area of TEEs and I suspect that we will see all sort=
s of different use cases showing up
 in the future as the technology gets used in different environments. <o:p>=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">k) The below line is not clear to me (please elab=
orate):<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Consequently, a TAM generally communicates with a=
n Untrusted Application about how it gets messages that originate from a TE=
E inside a device.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] The key point of that paragraph is that =
today TEEs do not communicate with the outside world but require the cooper=
ation with something on the REE side.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">l) What is the use case for one TA and multiple S=
P ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] I am not sure. I let Ming, DaveW, or Dav=
eT respond.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">m) what is the use case for keeping the TA binary=
 secret from the TAM ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] it is more and more common today to prot=
ect binaries from inspection because this gives attackers a lot of informat=
ion. If you don&#8217;t want to use it and only sign the binaries that&#821=
7;s fine too. But the option is there for you
 to protect the confidentiality of the binary. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">n) We allow a way for an Untrusted Application to=
 check the trustworthiness of a TA.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Comment&gt; You may want to re-phrase the above l=
ine, and remove &quot;we&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] I think we should delete this paragraph:=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&#8220;<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; We allow a way for an Untrust=
ed Application to check the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; trustworthiness of a TA.&nbsp=
; A TEEP Broker has a function to allow an<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; application to query the info=
rmation about a TA.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&#8220;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">o) A notification that an incoming TEEP session i=
s being requested by a TEEP Agent.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Comment&gt; What you meant by &quot;incoming TEEP=
 session&quot; ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] Dave should respond to this one because =
it relates to the HTTP transport, I believe.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">p) How does the TEEP broker communicate with the =
TEEP agent ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] Via an API, for example the GP TEEP Clie=
nt API. <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">q) Section 5.3 says the architecture uses PKI but=
 Section 9.1 discusses self-signed certificates. Please fix.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] We need to clarify the statement about t=
he self-signed TA binaries.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">r) In Figure 4, for the purpose of &quot;Code sig=
ning&quot; my understanding is the location of corresponding CA certs is bo=
th TEE and TAM.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] I believe it would be useful to also sto=
re the CA cert that is used for code signing at the TAM because then it can=
 verify the signed TAs.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">If we indeed believe the text in Section 9.1 is c=
orrect then that code signing CA cert also needs to be made available to th=
e TEEP Broker and potentially even to the untrusted app.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">s)I have seen several malicious apps in App store=
 in both Android and iOS, it is possible for an malicious App developer to =
publish both malicious untrusted applications
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and malicious trusted applicati=
ons.&nbsp; I don't think the TEEP architecture prevents this attack and it =
is the responsibility of TAM and App store to remove such apps
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(see <a href=3D"https://a=
ndroid-developers.googleblog.com/2018/01/how-we-fought-bad-apps-and-malicio=
us.html">
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2018/01/how-we-fought-bad-apps-an=
d-malicious.html</a>)
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[Hannes] Yes, it would be the responsibility of t=
he TAM, the device manufacturer and the SP / developer to ensure that they =
do not distribute malicious TAs.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Ciao<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Hannes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-Tiru<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Thaler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dthal=
er@microsoft.com">dthaler@microsoft.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:TirumaleswarRedd=
y_Konda@McAfee.com">TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:teep@ietf.org">teep@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"1" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" style=3D"background:#F3FF33;border:solid #9B9A87 1.5pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border:none;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#9=
B8B3E">CAUTION</span></strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#9B8B3E">:</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&qu=
ot;,sans-serif;color:black"> External email. Do not click links or open
 attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.<=
/span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I opened one pull request for editorial issues<span =
style=3D"color:#1F497D"> (<a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/architect=
ure/pull/109">https://github.com/ietf-teep/architecture/pull/109</a>),
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and filed seven other issues listed at <span style=
=3D"color:#1F497D">
<a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/architecture/issues">https://github=
..com/ietf-teep/architecture/issues</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">110) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/110">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Service Provider discussion is confusing</span></a><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">111) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/111">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Terminology section is not consistently ordered</spa=
n></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">112) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/112">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Text about carriers is confusing</span></a><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">113) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/113">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Section 6.2.3 contradicts section 4.2</span></a><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">114) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/114">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Figure 3 is too hard to understand</span></a><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">115) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/115">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:#24292E;te=
xt-decoration:none">Reference to IANA number</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">116) <a href=3D"https://github.com/ietf-teep/archite=
cture/issues/116">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:#24292E;te=
xt-decoration:none">Incorrect/obsolete statements about TEEP Broker</span><=
/a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have ideas about how to address all of them, but i=
f others have comments, please speak up.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The possibly(?) contentious one might be that in #11=
0 I am proposing to use the term<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8220;App Developer&#8221; throughout, instead of u=
sing &#8220;Service Provider&#8221; in some places and &#8220;App Developer=
&#8221; in others<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and then saying they&#8217;re synonymous like it doe=
s now.&nbsp;&nbsp; (I&#8217;d be ok with mentioning that in some contexts a=
n App Developer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">might be known as a &#8220;Service Provider&#8221; i=
f that is important to GlobalPlatform folks.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dave<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> TEEP &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:teep-bounces=
@ietf.org">teep-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 23, 2019 4:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:teep@ietf.org">teep@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architec=
ture<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) fo=
r TEEP architecture. &nbsp;The version to be reviewed is
<a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-teep-architecture-05&amp;data=3D02%7=
C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7C88bfc467b880468e461e08d787a2196d%7C72f988bf=
86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637127002642640827&amp;sdata=3DaallqAzJH=
3MqV2bbzMzwvD3OXhpRFyPJVHeaWye4x40%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-architecture-05</a> <o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 Ja=
nuary 2020.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please send your comments to the list before this da=
te and your assessment of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publicat=
ion.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tiru &amp; Nancy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid=
ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p=
lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any=
 other person, use it for any purpose,
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From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
To: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>, "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>, "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
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Subject: Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
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Below

From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 1:28 AM
To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>; Dave Th=
aler <dthaler@microsoft.com>; teep@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture

Hi Tiru,

Thanks for the review. There is clearly room for improving the write-up.

A few remarks below.

From: TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 7:39 AM
To: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com<mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com>>; teep=
@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e


[As an individual]

Hi Dave,



I have reviewed the draft and have comments and nits listed below:



a) It is not clear from the Introduction how TEE is different from a Closed=
 OS like Google Chromebook or Windows 10S ?

     The benefit of Payment application running in Closed OS verses in TEE =
is not evident from the description. What part of the Payment application r=
uns in the REE and TEE respectively ?

     If biometric identification information is securely stored in TEE for =
identification, how does the TEE identify the biometric identification info=
rmation is not retrieved by an malicious agent in the REE.

     Section 3.3 (Internet of things), How does the architecture ensure the=
 sensitive data is retrieved by a legitimate application in the REE and not=
 by an malicious application ?



[Hannes] The TEE adds another layer of software isolation. To protect one T=
A to steal data from another TA the two TAs need to be isolated against eac=
h other. Depending on the TEE technology you are using this is accomplished=
 via different means.



It is up to the application developer to decide how they best want to separ=
ate the REE and the TEE part, which in part depends a bit on what type of p=
ayment protocol they are using. In some other cases (probably more realisti=
c) they may be using an already existing payment system, which is provided =
as a TA, and they are just using it. In general, it does not strike me as a=
 great idea to have random smart phone app developers writing their own pay=
ment software.



The document (intentionally) makes no statement about whether a "close OS" =
as you put it, is or is not a TEE.   The question is really about whether s=
uch an OS prevents code injection attacks (e.g., due to buffer overruns or =
whatever else), prevents data modification attacks, etc.



b) Why should the list of trust anchors on the device be managed by the Dev=
ice's network carrier ?

     (you may want to define the term "network carrier").



This is issue #112 that I filed.   Personally I think the term "carrier" sh=
ould be removed from the doc.



[Hannes] The text says the following:



"
The list of Trust Anchors is normally modifiable
      by the Device's owner or Device Administrator.  However the Device
      manufacturer and network carrier may restrict some modifications,
      for example, by not allowing the manufacturer or carrier's Trust
      Anchor to be removed or disabled.

"



This describes current practice in the mobile phone industry and may not ne=
cessarily be applicable to other deployment scenarios. Hence, there is no r=
equired behavior here.





c) If the REE is compromised (for example by malware), it could terminate t=
he TEEP broker in REE. How is this attack mitigated ?



[Hannes] If the REE is compromised then that's typically not a good thing b=
ut the REE side still cannot access anything on the secure world, if implem=
ented correctly. It could, however, indeed terminate the TEEP broker and av=
oid any calls to the secure world. This would be a DoS attack. It would be =
possible to periodically schedule an interrupt that is processed by the sec=
ure world to let the secure world double-check the state of the normal worl=
d.



Right.  DoS attacks by the REE are, in general, not prevented (some TEEs ma=
y prevent them but most won't).

The TEEP architecture doesn't change this.



d) What happens if the malicious agent acting as TEEP broker launches attac=
ks (e.g. garbage data, replay attack, DoS of messages etc.,) on the TEEP ag=
ent, and how will the TEEP agent defend itself ?



[Hannes] The TEEP agent dispatches calls to the trusted applications. It is=
 typically a shim layer that just checks parameters of the requests and the=
n relays them to the TAs. Having a rock solid implementation of the TEEP ag=
ent is important and of course the TAs need to be implemented properly as w=
ell.



The GP TEE Client API is meant to provide a reference design for an API tha=
t allows data passing back and forth. So, implementing that API properly wi=
ll be important. This is why there is this open source project to implement=
 that API so that other developers can just use it.



The TEEP Agent implements a secure protocol (the TEEP protocol) between it =
and a TAM.
That protocol must be secure against attacks by untrusted intermediaries, i=
ncluding routers, HTTP proxies, and TEEP brokers.



e) The below line is not clear to me:

Enumeration and access to the appropriate TEEP Broker is up to the Rich Exe=
cution Environment and the Untrusted Applications..



[Hannes] There may be multiple TEEP Brokers on the system and the interacti=
on between untrusted apps and the TEEP broker is up to a policy implemented=
 by the developer.



I agree the line is confusingly worded.



h) A use case explaining the use of multiple TAM, multiple TEEP brokers on =
a device, and multiple TEE would be useful to the reader of the specificati=
on.



Isn't that what Figure 2 already provides?  Can you elaborate on what you'r=
e looking for?



[Hannes] Definitely a good idea to add text with use cases.

Here is my quick response:


-        Multiple TAMs: you could think about this as having multiple code =
repositories. Different SPs may prefer to use certain TAMs for their softwa=
re distribution.
-        Multiple TEEP brokers: this can occur when you have a broker offer=
ed by the OS and one bundled with the untrusted app.
-        Multiple TEEs: This depends on the TEE technology. In the TrustZon=
e case you may have a multi-processor system and each processor comes with =
TrustZone support.



i) When a TEEP Broker receives a request from an Untrusted Application

   to install a TA, a list of TAM URIs may be provided for that TA, and

   the request is passed to the TEEP Agent.  If the TEEP Agent decides

   that the TA needs to be installed, the TEEP Agent selects a single

   TAM URI that is consistent with the list of trusted TAMs provisioned

   on the device invokes the HTTP transport for TEEP to connect to the

   TAM URI and begins a TEEP protocol exchange.



Comment> I am not sure why the architecture draft is discussing the protoco=
l aspects like HTTP for TEEP ?



[Hannes] I believe it does not need to mention HTTP but it could list it as=
 an example.



Sure.



On the other hand, we have a WG document, and the architecture document can=
 mention it as explaining how that doc fits into the architecture and relat=
es to the other docs.



j) What if the malware in REE instructs the TEEP agent via TEEP broker to k=
eep installing/uninstalling TA (over-whelm the TEEP agent and TEE or instal=
ling un-necessary TA to have no memory for the required TA) ?



An REE can always conduct DoS attacks against a TEEP agent as discussed in =
your question (c) above.

However the word "instructs" is incorrect since the TEEP Agent is authorita=
tive, your question should say "requests" instead, since the TEEP agent is =
free to ignore/reject the request.  (This is why section 6.2.1 has "Request=
TA", as does the transport spec.)



[Hannes] Having a compromised REE environment that causes all sorts of apps=
 to be installed is possible (assuming the TEE is authorizing the installat=
ion of those apps). An implementation of the secure world, most likely the =
TEE OS, will have to make sure that the device does not install TAs and ove=
rwrite the memory space they have been configured to use.



i)                 What is the use case for "Personalization data" ?



There is an example in section 4.4:

=D8  an example of

=D8  personalization data might be a secret symmetric key used by the TA

=D8  to communicate with the SP



[Hannes] Personalization data is meant to make each instance of the TA uniq=
ue and potentially tie it to a specific user. Imagine a TA that implements =
biometric functionality: there has to be something in TA that relates this =
instance of the TA to a specific human, for example by storing a fingerprin=
t alongside the TA as configuration data.



j) Why is Section 4.5 discussing Case 1 when it not in use ?



[Hannes] We just describe the possible approach and illustrates how things =
are done today. There is, however, a lot of development going on in the are=
a of TEEs and I suspect that we will see all sorts of different use cases s=
howing up in the future as the technology gets used in different environmen=
ts.



Agree with Hannes.



k) The below line is not clear to me (please elaborate):

Consequently, a TAM generally communicates with an Untrusted Application ab=
out how it gets messages that originate from a TEE inside a device.



[Hannes] The key point of that paragraph is that today TEEs do not communic=
ate with the outside world but require the cooperation with something on th=
e REE side.



That whole paragraph is confusingly worded, and I currently plan to rewrite=
 it based on my marked up hard copy :)



l) What is the use case for one TA and multiple SP ?



[Hannes] I am not sure. I let Ming, DaveW, or DaveT respond.



No idea, I'd propose deleting that section.   I was confused by it as well.



m) what is the use case for keeping the TA binary secret from the TAM ?



[Hannes] it is more and more common today to protect binaries from inspecti=
on because this gives attackers a lot of information. If you don't want to =
use it and only sign the binaries that's fine too. But the option is there =
for you to protect the confidentiality of the binary.



I believe the use case is where the app developer considers the TA binary i=
tself to be secret (e.g., intellectual property worth protecting), but want=
s to allow it to be distributed through a TAM that is run by another organi=
zation, one with more hosting capacity.   Thus the developer puts an encryp=
ted binary in that TAM, and then runs their own lighter weight TAM that jus=
t hands out decryption keys which doesn't need nearly as much much capacity=
/bandwidth.



n) We allow a way for an Untrusted Application to check the trustworthiness=
 of a TA.



Comment> You may want to re-phrase the above line, and remove "we".



[Hannes] I think we should delete this paragraph:

"

   We allow a way for an Untrusted Application to check the

   trustworthiness of a TA.  A TEEP Broker has a function to allow an

   application to query the information about a TA.

"



Agreed it should be deleted.  This was the second point of issue #116 that =
I filed.



o) A notification that an incoming TEEP session is being requested by a TEE=
P Agent.



Comment> What you meant by "incoming TEEP session" ?



[Hannes] Dave should respond to this one because it relates to the HTTP tra=
nsport, I believe.



The TEEP protocol requires the agent to connect to the TAM.   This is a not=
ification about the initial connection.

See the transport spec for more details.



p) How does the TEEP broker communicate with the TEEP agent ?



[Hannes] Via an API, for example the GP TEEP Client API.



Right, implementation-specific detail.



q) Section 5.3 says the architecture uses PKI but Section 9.1 discusses sel=
f-signed certificates. Please fix.



[Hannes] We need to clarify the statement about the self-signed TA binaries=
.



Sure.  Figure 4 talks about multiple certificates.   5.3 is a general state=
ment about multiple types.

9.1 is about one specific type of cert that may or may not have a PKI.

So they are not in contradiction but yes clarification would be good.



r) In Figure 4, for the purpose of "Code signing" my understanding is the l=
ocation of corresponding CA certs is both TEE and TAM.



[Hannes] I believe it would be useful to also store the CA cert that is use=
d for code signing at the TAM because then it can verify the signed TAs.



I don't believe there is any such requirement on a TAM.   It might be "usef=
ul" but is not required in my view.



If we indeed believe the text in Section 9.1 is correct then that code sign=
ing CA cert also needs to be made available to the TEEP Broker and potentia=
lly even to the untrusted app.



I don't believe the text in 9.1 is correct.



s)I have seen several malicious apps in App store in both Android and iOS, =
it is possible for an malicious App developer to publish both malicious unt=
rusted applications

   and malicious trusted applications.  I don't think the TEEP architecture=
 prevents this attack and it is the responsibility of TAM and App store to =
remove such apps

    (see https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2018/01/how-we-fought-ba=
d-apps-and-malicious.html<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?u=
rl=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fandroid-developers.googleblog.com%2F2018%2F01%2Fhow-we-f=
ought-bad-apps-and-malicious.html&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%=
7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7=
C0%7C637139861908969481&sdata=3DgNv0t73IFUqZmdnXjWmpb9bAyoYGfczM6oRe66Qlaog=
%3D&reserved=3D0>)



[Hannes] Yes, it would be the responsibility of the TAM, the device manufac=
turer and the SP / developer to ensure that they do not distribute maliciou=
s TAs.



It's the responsibility of the TAM to not install malicious trusted apps, o=
nly authorized ones.

I don't think it's correct to say it's the responsibility of the TAM to "re=
move" malicious trusted apps, since it shouldn't have installed it in the f=
irst place.

The only case where "removal" might make sense is if the TAM previously aut=
horized a trusted app, and later changed its policy that such TA is no long=
er authorized (e.g., because it was determined to be buggy or malicious or =
whatever else).



Ciao

Hannes



Cheers,

-Tiru


From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com<mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:44 AM
To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com<mailto:Ti=
rumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>>; teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture


CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you =
recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

________________________________
I opened one pull request for editorial issues (https://github.com/ietf-tee=
p/architecture/pull/109<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fpull%2F109&data=3D=
02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f9=
88bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908969481&sdata=3DS36SLw%2F=
2T7yK210awwzbpWTE0LAN9r1WFtkE5qG%2Bfl0%3D&reserved=3D0>),
and filed seven other issues listed at https://github..com/ietf-teep/archit=
ecture/issues<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3=
A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fissues&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdtha=
ler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91=
ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908979441&sdata=3D5aqxPRt0miAe5DsoenjkTn2=
qbJlVWTeciLtw9SBVn1E%3D&reserved=3D0>

110) Service Provider discussion is confusing<https://nam06.safelinks.prote=
ction.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitectur=
e%2Fissues%2F110&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4=
c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908=
979441&sdata=3DKPNhnXV43eP8ZmdSqv3Vkbcj%2FPUlt5G3qYUgWPOBT%2F0%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
111) Terminology section is not consistently ordered<https://nam06.safelink=
s.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farch=
itecture%2Fissues%2F111&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5=
f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63713=
9861908979441&sdata=3DY%2FwhR2qzEc86xYboYueIlwI7jGUlIUnUp03qQ%2FclAMs%3D&re=
served=3D0>
112) Text about carriers is confusing<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fissu=
es%2F112&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d=
79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908989393&s=
data=3DR1xs7Zt7GAt%2Bj0cv8rE273CmG4Y%2FPSQ5bB1SXVVjUS0%3D&reserved=3D0>
113) Section 6.2.3 contradicts section 4.2<https://nam06.safelinks.protecti=
on.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2=
Fissues%2F113&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908989=
393&sdata=3DfYt0nEoCNSxthFVKq%2FmxutxQgpThx8L1Vn3h%2BxLhKxE%3D&reserved=3D0=
>
114) Figure 3 is too hard to understand<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fis=
sues%2F114&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa0=
8d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908989393=
&sdata=3Do%2F6RQy0IdDZQ1Z5wDYg5WVamJ31SS6JUzU8nCLB8ksk%3D&reserved=3D0>
115) Reference to IANA number<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fissues%2F115=
&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece=
5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908999352&sdata=3Dx=
PDRcUGvaicejeAxxLOt5Cc%2BaFAEpe1X1XBnW8TOrY8%3D&reserved=3D0>
116) Incorrect/obsolete statements about TEEP Broker<https://nam06.safelink=
s.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farch=
itecture%2Fissues%2F116&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5=
f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63713=
9861908999352&sdata=3DO8lfJd0TAW1aEU50xAO7U09PPsCtcrCCPBFNHlPC2pA%3D&reserv=
ed=3D0>

I have ideas about how to address all of them, but if others have comments,=
 please speak up.

The possibly(?) contentious one might be that in #110 I am proposing to use=
 the term
"App Developer" throughout, instead of using "Service Provider" in some pla=
ces and "App Developer" in others
and then saying they're synonymous like it does now.   (I'd be ok with ment=
ioning that in some contexts an App Developer
might be known as a "Service Provider" if that is important to GlobalPlatfo=
rm folks.)

Dave

From: TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 4:17 AM
To: teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>
Subject: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture

Hi all,

This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) for TEEP architecture.  T=
he version to be reviewed is https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-ar=
chitecture-05<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3=
A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-teep-architecture-05&data=3D02%7C=
01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf8=
6f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861909009306&sdata=3DjkSiFYpG8FFVJU=
Pk7nzK4VCH2j3im3RyFYtQj7ieHCw%3D&reserved=3D0>

The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 January 2020.

Please send your comments to the list before this date and your assessment =
of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publication.

Regards,
Tiru & Nancy
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid=
ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p=
lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any=
 other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in =
any medium. Thank you.

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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Below<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:#1F4=
97D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b> Hannes Tscho=
fenig &lt;Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 7, 2020 1:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy &lt;TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com=
&gt;; Dave Thaler &lt;dthaler@microsoft.com&gt;; teep@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Hi Tiru, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Thanks for the review. Th=
ere is clearly room for improving the write-up.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">A few remarks below. <o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b> TEEP &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org">teep-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 7, 2020 7:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dave Thaler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com">dthaler=
@microsoft.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:teep@ietf.org">teep@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-arch=
itecture<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[As an individual]<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Hi Dave,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">I have reviewed the dr=
aft and have comments and nits listed below:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">a) It is not clear fro=
m the Introduction how TEE is different from a Closed OS like Google Chrome=
book or Windows 10S ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nb=
sp;The benefit of Payment application running in Closed OS verses in TEE is=
 not evident from the description. What part of the Payment application run=
s in the REE and TEE respectively ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; If biometric identification information is securely stored in TEE for id=
entification, how does the TEE identify the biometric identification inform=
ation is not retrieved by an malicious agent in the REE.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; Section 3.3 (Internet of things), How does the architecture ensure the s=
ensitive data is retrieved by a legitimate application in the REE and not b=
y an malicious application ? &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] The TEE adds =
another layer of software isolation. To protect one TA to steal data from a=
nother TA the two TAs need to be isolated against each other. Depending on =
the TEE technology you are using this
 is accomplished via different means. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">It is up to the applic=
ation developer to decide how they best want to separate the REE and the TE=
E part, which in part depends a bit on what type of payment protocol they a=
re using. In some other cases (probably
 more realistic) they may be using an already existing payment system, whic=
h is provided as a TA, and they are just using it. In general, it does not =
strike me as a great idea to have random smart phone app developers writing=
 their own payment software.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The document (inten=
tionally) makes no statement about whether a &#8220;close OS&#8221; as you =
put it, is or is not a TEE.&nbsp;&nbsp; The question is really about whethe=
r such an OS prevents code injection attacks (e.g., due to
 buffer overruns or whatever else), prevents data modification attacks, etc=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">b) Why should the list=
 of trust anchors on the device be managed by the Device's network carrier =
?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; (you may want to define the term &quot;network carrier&quot;).<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">This is issue #112 =
that I filed.&nbsp;&nbsp; Personally I think the term &#8220;carrier&#8221;=
 should be removed from the doc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] The text says=
 the following:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&#8220;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">The list of Trust A=
nchors is normally modifiable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; by the Device's owner or Device Administrator.&nbsp; However th=
e Device<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; manufacturer and network carrier may restrict some modification=
s,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; for example, by not allowing the manufacturer or carrier's Trus=
t<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; Anchor to be removed or disabled.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&#8220;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">This describes current=
 practice in the mobile phone industry and may not necessarily be applicabl=
e to other deployment scenarios. Hence, there is no required behavior here.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">c) If the REE is compr=
omised (for example by malware), it could terminate the TEEP broker in REE.=
 How is this attack mitigated ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] If the REE is=
 compromised then that&#8217;s typically not a good thing but the REE side =
still cannot access anything on the secure world, if implemented correctly.=
 It could, however, indeed terminate the TEEP
 broker and avoid any calls to the secure world. This would be a DoS attack=
. It would be possible to periodically schedule an interrupt that is proces=
sed by the secure world to let the secure world double-check the state of t=
he normal world.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Right.&nbsp; DoS at=
tacks by the REE are, in general, not prevented (some TEEs may prevent them=
 but most won&#8217;t).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The TEEP architectu=
re doesn&#8217;t change this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">d) What happens if the=
 malicious agent acting as TEEP broker launches attacks (e.g. garbage data,=
 replay attack, DoS of messages etc.,) on the TEEP agent, and how will the =
TEEP agent defend itself ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] The TEEP agen=
t dispatches calls to the trusted applications. It is typically a shim laye=
r that just checks parameters of the requests and then relays them to the T=
As. Having a rock solid implementation
 of the TEEP agent is important and of course the TAs need to be implemente=
d properly as well.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">The GP TEE Client API =
is meant to provide a reference design for an API that allows data passing =
back and forth. So, implementing that API properly will be important. This =
is why there is this open source project
 to implement that API so that other developers can just use it. <o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The TEEP Agent impl=
ements a secure protocol (the TEEP protocol) between it and a TAM.<br>
That protocol must be secure against attacks by untrusted intermediaries, i=
ncluding routers, HTTP proxies, and TEEP brokers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">e) The below line is n=
ot clear to me:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Enumeration and access=
 to the appropriate TEEP Broker is up to the Rich Execution Environment and=
 the Untrusted Applications..<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] There may be =
multiple TEEP Brokers on the system and the interaction between untrusted a=
pps and the TEEP broker is up to a policy implemented by the developer.<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I agree the line is=
 confusingly worded.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">h) A use case explaini=
ng the use of multiple TAM, multiple TEEP brokers on a device, and multiple=
 TEE would be useful to the reader of the specification.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Isn&#8217;t that wh=
at Figure 2 already provides?&nbsp; Can you elaborate on what you&#8217;re =
looking for?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] Definitely a =
good idea to add text with use cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Here is my quick respo=
nse: <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l4 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7=
.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;
</span></span><![endif]>Multiple TAMs: you could think about this as having=
 multiple code repositories. Different SPs may prefer to use certain TAMs f=
or their software distribution.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l4 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7=
.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;
</span></span><![endif]>Multiple TEEP brokers: this can occur when you have=
 a broker offered by the OS and one bundled with the untrusted app.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l4 level1 lfo3">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7=
.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;
</span></span><![endif]>Multiple TEEs: This depends on the TEE technology. =
In the TrustZone case you may have a multi-processor system and each proces=
sor comes with TrustZone support.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">i) When a TEEP Broker =
receives a request from an Untrusted Application<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp; to instal=
l a TA, a list of TAM URIs may be provided for that TA, and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp; the reque=
st is passed to the TEEP Agent.&nbsp; If the TEEP Agent decides<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp; that the =
TA needs to be installed, the TEEP Agent selects a single<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp; TAM URI t=
hat is consistent with the list of trusted TAMs provisioned<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp; on the de=
vice invokes the HTTP transport for TEEP to connect to the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp; TAM URI a=
nd begins a TEEP protocol exchange.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Comment&gt; I am not s=
ure why the architecture draft is discussing the protocol aspects like HTTP=
 for TEEP ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] I believe it =
does not need to mention HTTP but it could list it as an example.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sure.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">On the other hand, =
we have a WG document, and the architecture document can mention it as expl=
aining how that doc fits into the architecture and relates to the other doc=
s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">j) What if the malware=
 in REE instructs the TEEP agent via TEEP broker to keep installing/uninsta=
lling TA (over-whelm the TEEP agent and TEE or installing un-necessary TA t=
o have no memory for the required TA)
 ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">An REE can always c=
onduct DoS attacks against a TEEP agent as discussed in your question (c) a=
bove.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">However the word &#=
8220;instructs&#8221; is incorrect since the TEEP Agent is authoritative, y=
our question should say &#8220;requests&#8221; instead, since the TEEP agen=
t is free to ignore/reject the request.&nbsp; (This is why section
 6.2.1 has &#8220;RequestTA&#8221;, as does the transport spec.)<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] Having a comp=
romised REE environment that causes all sorts of apps to be installed is po=
ssible (assuming the TEE is authorizing the installation of those apps). An=
 implementation of the secure world,
 most likely the TEE OS, will have to make sure that the device does not in=
stall TAs and overwrite the memory space they have been configured to use.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.5in;mso-=
list:l2 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">i)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>What is the use case for &quot;Personalization data=
&quot; ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There is an example=
 in section 4.4:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo6;word-break:break-all">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Wingdings;=
color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=D8<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &=
quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:#FFFDF5">an example of<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo5;word-break:break-all">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Wingdings;=
color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=D8<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &=
quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:#FFFDF5">personalization dat=
a might be a secret symmetric key used by the TA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-=
list:l1 level1 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=D8<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;">&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:=
&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:#FFFDF5">to communicate with=
 the SP</span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] Personalizati=
on data is meant to make each instance of the TA unique and potentially tie=
 it to a specific user. Imagine a TA that implements biometric functionalit=
y: there has to be something in TA that
 relates this instance of the TA to a specific human, for example by storin=
g a fingerprint alongside the TA as configuration data.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">j) Why is Section 4.5 =
discussing Case 1 when it not in use ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] We just descr=
ibe the possible approach and illustrates how things are done today. There =
is, however, a lot of development going on in the area of TEEs and I suspec=
t that we will see all sorts of different
 use cases showing up in the future as the technology gets used in differen=
t environments.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Agree with Hannes.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">k) The below line is n=
ot clear to me (please elaborate):<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Consequently, a TAM ge=
nerally communicates with an Untrusted Application about how it gets messag=
es that originate from a TEE inside a device.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] The key point=
 of that paragraph is that today TEEs do not communicate with the outside w=
orld but require the cooperation with something on the REE side.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">That whole paragrap=
h is confusingly worded, and I currently plan to rewrite it based on my mar=
ked up hard copy
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span><span st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">l) What is the use cas=
e for one TA and multiple SP ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] I am not sure=
. I let Ming, DaveW, or DaveT respond.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">No idea, I&#8217;d =
propose deleting that section.&nbsp;&nbsp; I was confused by it as well.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">m) what is the use cas=
e for keeping the TA binary secret from the TAM ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] it is more an=
d more common today to protect binaries from inspection because this gives =
attackers a lot of information. If you don&#8217;t want to use it and only =
sign the binaries that&#8217;s fine too. But the
 option is there for you to protect the confidentiality of the binary. <o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I believe the use c=
ase is where the app developer considers the TA binary itself to be secret =
(e.g., intellectual property worth protecting), but wants to allow it to be=
 distributed through a TAM that is run
 by another organization, one with more hosting capacity.&nbsp;&nbsp; Thus =
the developer puts an encrypted binary in that TAM, and then runs their own=
 lighter weight TAM that just hands out decryption keys which doesn&#8217;t=
 need nearly as much much capacity/bandwidth.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">n) We allow a way for =
an Untrusted Application to check the trustworthiness of a TA.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Comment&gt; You may wa=
nt to re-phrase the above line, and remove &quot;we&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] I think we sh=
ould delete this paragraph:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&#8220;<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; We=
 allow a way for an Untrusted Application to check the<o:p></o:p></span></p=
re>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; tr=
ustworthiness of a TA.&nbsp; A TEEP Broker has a function to allow an<o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; ap=
plication to query the information about a TA.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&#8220;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Agreed it should be=
 deleted.&nbsp; This was the second point of issue #116 that I filed.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">o) A notification that=
 an incoming TEEP session is being requested by a TEEP Agent.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Comment&gt; What you m=
eant by &quot;incoming TEEP session&quot; ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] Dave should r=
espond to this one because it relates to the HTTP transport, I believe.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The TEEP protocol r=
equires the agent to connect to the TAM.&nbsp;&nbsp; This is a notification=
 about the initial connection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">See the transport s=
pec for more details.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">p) How does the TEEP b=
roker communicate with the TEEP agent ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] Via an API, f=
or example the GP TEEP Client API.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Right, implementati=
on-specific detail.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">q) Section 5.3 says th=
e architecture uses PKI but Section 9.1 discusses self-signed certificates.=
 Please fix.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] We need to cl=
arify the statement about the self-signed TA binaries.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sure.&nbsp; Figure =
4 talks about multiple certificates.&nbsp;&nbsp; 5.3 is a general statement=
 about multiple types.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">9.1 is about one sp=
ecific type of cert that may or may not have a PKI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So they are not in =
contradiction but yes clarification would be good.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">r) In Figure 4, for th=
e purpose of &quot;Code signing&quot; my understanding is the location of c=
orresponding CA certs is both TEE and TAM.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] I believe it =
would be useful to also store the CA cert that is used for code signing at =
the TAM because then it can verify the signed TAs.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I don&#8217;t belie=
ve there is any such requirement on a TAM.&nbsp;&nbsp; It might be &#8220;u=
seful&#8221; but is not required in my view.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">If we indeed believe t=
he text in Section 9.1 is correct then that code signing CA cert also needs=
 to be made available to the TEEP Broker and potentially even to the untrus=
ted app.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I don&#8217;t belie=
ve the text in 9.1 is correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">s)I have seen several =
malicious apps in App store in both Android and iOS, it is possible for an =
malicious App developer to publish both malicious untrusted applications
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and =
malicious trusted applications.&nbsp; I don't think the TEEP architecture p=
revents this attack and it is the responsibility of TAM and App store to re=
move such apps
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;(see <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt=
ps%3A%2F%2Fandroid-developers.googleblog.com%2F2018%2F01%2Fhow-we-fought-ba=
d-apps-and-malicious.html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbc=
f3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7=
C637139861908969481&amp;sdata=3DgNv0t73IFUqZmdnXjWmpb9bAyoYGfczM6oRe66Qlaog=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2018/01/how-we-fought-bad-apps-an=
d-malicious.html</a>)
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] Yes, it would=
 be the responsibility of the TAM, the device manufacturer and the SP / dev=
eloper to ensure that they do not distribute malicious TAs.<span style=3D"c=
olor:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It&#8217;s the resp=
onsibility of the TAM to not install malicious trusted apps, only authorize=
d ones.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I don&#8217;t think=
 it&#8217;s correct to say it&#8217;s the responsibility of the TAM to &#82=
20;remove&#8221; malicious trusted apps, since it shouldn&#8217;t have inst=
alled it in the first place.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The only case where=
 &#8220;removal&#8221; might make sense is if the TAM previously authorized=
 a trusted app, and later changed its policy that such TA is no longer auth=
orized (e.g., because it was determined to be buggy
 or malicious or whatever else).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Ciao<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Hannes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">-Tiru<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Thaler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dthal=
er@microsoft.com">dthaler@microsoft.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:TirumaleswarRedd=
y_Konda@McAfee.com">TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:teep@ietf.org">teep@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"1" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" style=3D"background:#F3FF33;border:solid #9B9A87 1.5pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border:none;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#9=
B8B3E">CAUTION</span></strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#9B8B3E">:</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&qu=
ot;,sans-serif;color:black"> External email. Do not click links or open
 attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.<=
/span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I opened one pull request for editorial issues<span =
style=3D"color:#1F497D"> (<a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.out=
look.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fpull%=
2F109&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08=
d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908969481&=
amp;sdata=3DS36SLw%2F2T7yK210awwzbpWTE0LAN9r1WFtkE5qG%2Bfl0%3D&amp;reserved=
=3D0">https://github.com/ietf-teep/architecture/pull/109</a>),
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and filed seven other issues listed at <span style=
=3D"color:#1F497D">
<a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fissues&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdth=
aler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af9=
1ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908979441&amp;sdata=3D5aqxPRt0miAe5Dsoen=
jkTn2qbJlVWTeciLtw9SBVn1E%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://github..com/ietf-tee=
p/architecture/issues</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">110) <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fiss=
ues%2F110&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908979=
441&amp;sdata=3DKPNhnXV43eP8ZmdSqv3Vkbcj%2FPUlt5G3qYUgWPOBT%2F0%3D&amp;rese=
rved=3D0">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Service Provider discussion is confusing</span></a><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">111) <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fiss=
ues%2F111&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908979=
441&amp;sdata=3DY%2FwhR2qzEc86xYboYueIlwI7jGUlIUnUp03qQ%2FclAMs%3D&amp;rese=
rved=3D0">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Terminology section is not consistently ordered</spa=
n></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">112) <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fiss=
ues%2F112&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908989=
393&amp;sdata=3DR1xs7Zt7GAt%2Bj0cv8rE273CmG4Y%2FPSQ5bB1SXVVjUS0%3D&amp;rese=
rved=3D0">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Text about carriers is confusing</span></a><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">113) <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fiss=
ues%2F113&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908989=
393&amp;sdata=3DfYt0nEoCNSxthFVKq%2FmxutxQgpThx8L1Vn3h%2BxLhKxE%3D&amp;rese=
rved=3D0">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Section 6.2.3 contradicts section 4.2</span></a><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">114) <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fiss=
ues%2F114&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908989=
393&amp;sdata=3Do%2F6RQy0IdDZQ1Z5wDYg5WVamJ31SS6JUzU8nCLB8ksk%3D&amp;reserv=
ed=3D0">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Figure 3 is too hard to understand</span></a><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">115) <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fiss=
ues%2F115&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908999=
352&amp;sdata=3DxPDRcUGvaicejeAxxLOt5Cc%2BaFAEpe1X1XBnW8TOrY8%3D&amp;reserv=
ed=3D0">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:#24292E;te=
xt-decoration:none">Reference to IANA number</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">116) <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fiss=
ues%2F116&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908999=
352&amp;sdata=3DO8lfJd0TAW1aEU50xAO7U09PPsCtcrCCPBFNHlPC2pA%3D&amp;reserved=
=3D0">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:#24292E;te=
xt-decoration:none">Incorrect/obsolete statements about TEEP Broker</span><=
/a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have ideas about how to address all of them, but i=
f others have comments, please speak up.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The possibly(?) contentious one might be that in #11=
0 I am proposing to use the term<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8220;App Developer&#8221; throughout, instead of u=
sing &#8220;Service Provider&#8221; in some places and &#8220;App Developer=
&#8221; in others<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and then saying they&#8217;re synonymous like it doe=
s now.&nbsp;&nbsp; (I&#8217;d be ok with mentioning that in some contexts a=
n App Developer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">might be known as a &#8220;Service Provider&#8221; i=
f that is important to GlobalPlatform folks.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dave<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> TEEP &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:teep-bounces=
@ietf.org">teep-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 23, 2019 4:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:teep@ietf.org">teep@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architec=
ture<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) fo=
r TEEP architecture. &nbsp;The version to be reviewed is
<a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-teep-architecture-05&amp;data=3D02%7=
C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf=
86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861909009306&amp;sdata=3DjkSiFYpG8=
FFVJUPk7nzK4VCH2j3im3RyFYtQj7ieHCw%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-architecture-05</a> <o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 Ja=
nuary 2020.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please send your comments to the list before this da=
te and your assessment of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publicat=
ion.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tiru &amp; Nancy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,serif">IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and=
 any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are no=
t the intended recipient, please notify the sender
 immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it f=
or any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Thread-Topic: RATS virtual interim doodle poll closing this Friday 5pmPST
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From: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
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From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>
To: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>, "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
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Hi Hannes and Dave,

Thanks for the responses. Please see inline [TR]

From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 8, 2020 1:14 AM
To: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>; Konda, Tirumaleswar Redd=
y <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>; teep@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture


CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you =
recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

________________________________
Below

From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com<mailto:Hannes.Tschofenig=
@arm.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 1:28 AM
To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com<mailto:Ti=
rumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>>; Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com<mail=
to:dthaler@microsoft.com>>; teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture

Hi Tiru,

Thanks for the review. There is clearly room for improving the write-up.

A few remarks below.

From: TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 7:39 AM
To: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com<mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com>>; teep=
@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e


[As an individual]

Hi Dave,



I have reviewed the draft and have comments and nits listed below:



a) It is not clear from the Introduction how TEE is different from a Closed=
 OS like Google Chromebook or Windows 10S ?

     The benefit of Payment application running in Closed OS verses in TEE =
is not evident from the description. What part of the Payment application r=
uns in the REE and TEE respectively ?

     If biometric identification information is securely stored in TEE for =
identification, how does the TEE identify the biometric identification info=
rmation is not retrieved by an malicious agent in the REE.

     Section 3.3 (Internet of things), How does the architecture ensure the=
 sensitive data is retrieved by a legitimate application in the REE and not=
 by an malicious application ?



[Hannes] The TEE adds another layer of software isolation. To protect one T=
A to steal data from another TA the two TAs need to be isolated against eac=
h other. Depending on the TEE technology you are using this is accomplished=
 via different means.



It is up to the application developer to decide how they best want to separ=
ate the REE and the TEE part, which in part depends a bit on what type of p=
ayment protocol they are using. In some other cases (probably more realisti=
c) they may be using an already existing payment system, which is provided =
as a TA, and they are just using it. In general, it does not strike me as a=
 great idea to have random smart phone app developers writing their own pay=
ment software.



[TR] Got it, Thanks.



The document (intentionally) makes no statement about whether a "close OS" =
as you put it, is or is not a TEE.   The question is really about whether s=
uch an OS prevents code injection attacks (e.g., due to buffer overruns or =
whatever else), prevents data modification attacks, etc.



[TR] Closed OS prevent the above attacks, a malicious app cannot read/modif=
y the data of the other apps (e.g., ransomware attack is not possible, see =
https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/3438631?hl=3Den).



b) Why should the list of trust anchors on the device be managed by the Dev=
ice's network carrier ?

     (you may want to define the term "network carrier").



This is issue #112 that I filed.   Personally I think the term "carrier" sh=
ould be removed from the doc.



[TR] Works for me.



[Hannes] The text says the following:



"
The list of Trust Anchors is normally modifiable
      by the Device's owner or Device Administrator.  However the Device
      manufacturer and network carrier may restrict some modifications,
      for example, by not allowing the manufacturer or carrier's Trust
      Anchor to be removed or disabled.

"



This describes current practice in the mobile phone industry and may not ne=
cessarily be applicable to other deployment scenarios. Hence, there is no r=
equired behavior here.





c) If the REE is compromised (for example by malware), it could terminate t=
he TEEP broker in REE. How is this attack mitigated ?



[Hannes] If the REE is compromised then that's typically not a good thing b=
ut the REE side still cannot access anything on the secure world, if implem=
ented correctly. It could, however, indeed terminate the TEEP broker and av=
oid any calls to the secure world. This would be a DoS attack. It would be =
possible to periodically schedule an interrupt that is processed by the sec=
ure world to let the secure world double-check the state of the normal worl=
d.



Right.  DoS attacks by the REE are, in general, not prevented (some TEEs ma=
y prevent them but most won't).

The TEEP architecture doesn't change this.



[TR] You may want to explain the above threat vector in the document.



d) What happens if the malicious agent acting as TEEP broker launches attac=
ks (e.g. garbage data, replay attack, DoS of messages etc.,) on the TEEP ag=
ent, and how will the TEEP agent defend itself ?



[Hannes] The TEEP agent dispatches calls to the trusted applications. It is=
 typically a shim layer that just checks parameters of the requests and the=
n relays them to the TAs. Having a rock solid implementation of the TEEP ag=
ent is important and of course the TAs need to be implemented properly as w=
ell.



The GP TEE Client API is meant to provide a reference design for an API tha=
t allows data passing back and forth. So, implementing that API properly wi=
ll be important. This is why there is this open source project to implement=
 that API so that other developers can just use it.



The TEEP Agent implements a secure protocol (the TEEP protocol) between it =
and a TAM.
That protocol must be secure against attacks by untrusted intermediaries, i=
ncluding routers, HTTP proxies, and TEEP brokers.



[TR] Okay. I think it will be useful to discuss possible attacks by untrust=
ed intermediaries on the TEEP agent and how the TEEP agent can protect itse=
lf (either in this document or in the TEEP protocol specification) ?





e) The below line is not clear to me:

Enumeration and access to the appropriate TEEP Broker is up to the Rich Exe=
cution Environment and the Untrusted Applications..



[Hannes] There may be multiple TEEP Brokers on the system and the interacti=
on between untrusted apps and the TEEP broker is up to a policy implemented=
 by the developer.



I agree the line is confusingly worded.



[TR] Please fix in the next update.



h) A use case explaining the use of multiple TAM, multiple TEEP brokers on =
a device, and multiple TEE would be useful to the reader of the specificati=
on.



Isn't that what Figure 2 already provides?  Can you elaborate on what you'r=
e looking for?



[TR] I am looking for use cases, the text proposed by Hannes below looks li=
ke a good starting point.



[Hannes] Definitely a good idea to add text with use cases.

Here is my quick response:


-          Multiple TAMs: you could think about this as having multiple cod=
e repositories. Different SPs may prefer to use certain TAMs for their soft=
ware distribution.
-          Multiple TEEP brokers: this can occur when you have a broker off=
ered by the OS and one bundled with the untrusted app.
-          Multiple TEEs: This depends on the TEE technology. In the TrustZ=
one case you may have a multi-processor system and each processor comes wit=
h TrustZone support.



i) When a TEEP Broker receives a request from an Untrusted Application

   to install a TA, a list of TAM URIs may be provided for that TA, and

   the request is passed to the TEEP Agent.  If the TEEP Agent decides

   that the TA needs to be installed, the TEEP Agent selects a single

   TAM URI that is consistent with the list of trusted TAMs provisioned

   on the device invokes the HTTP transport for TEEP to connect to the

   TAM URI and begins a TEEP protocol exchange.



Comment> I am not sure why the architecture draft is discussing the protoco=
l aspects like HTTP for TEEP ?



[Hannes] I believe it does not need to mention HTTP but it could list it as=
 an example.



Sure.



On the other hand, we have a WG document, and the architecture document can=
 mention it as explaining how that doc fits into the architecture and relat=
es to the other docs.



[TR] Fair point.



j) What if the malware in REE instructs the TEEP agent via TEEP broker to k=
eep installing/uninstalling TA (over-whelm the TEEP agent and TEE or instal=
ling un-necessary TA to have no memory for the required TA) ?



An REE can always conduct DoS attacks against a TEEP agent as discussed in =
your question (c) above.

However the word "instructs" is incorrect since the TEEP Agent is authorita=
tive, your question should say "requests" instead, since the TEEP agent is =
free to ignore/reject the request.  (This is why section 6.2.1 has "Request=
TA", as does the transport spec.)



[Hannes] Having a compromised REE environment that causes all sorts of apps=
 to be installed is possible (assuming the TEE is authorizing the installat=
ion of those apps). An implementation of the secure world, most likely the =
TEE OS, will have to make sure that the device does not install TAs and ove=
rwrite the memory space they have been configured to use.



[TR] My suggestion is to discuss the above attack in the document.





i)                    What is the use case for "Personalization data" ?



There is an example in section 4.4:

  *   an example of

  *   personalization data might be a secret symmetric key used by the TA
  *   to communicate with the SP



[TR] Thanks, I missed the example.



[Hannes] Personalization data is meant to make each instance of the TA uniq=
ue and potentially tie it to a specific user. Imagine a TA that implements =
biometric functionality: there has to be something in TA that relates this =
instance of the TA to a specific human, for example by storing a fingerprin=
t alongside the TA as configuration data.



j) Why is Section 4.5 discussing Case 1 when it not in use ?



[Hannes] We just describe the possible approach and illustrates how things =
are done today. There is, however, a lot of development going on in the are=
a of TEEs and I suspect that we will see all sorts of different use cases s=
howing up in the future as the technology gets used in different environmen=
ts.



Agree with Hannes.



[TR] Okay.



k) The below line is not clear to me (please elaborate):

Consequently, a TAM generally communicates with an Untrusted Application ab=
out how it gets messages that originate from a TEE inside a device.



[Hannes] The key point of that paragraph is that today TEEs do not communic=
ate with the outside world but require the cooperation with something on th=
e REE side.



That whole paragraph is confusingly worded, and I currently plan to rewrite=
 it based on my marked up hard copy :)



[TR] Okay.



l) What is the use case for one TA and multiple SP ?



[Hannes] I am not sure. I let Ming, DaveW, or DaveT respond.



No idea, I'd propose deleting that section.   I was confused by it as well.



[TR] Works for me.



m) what is the use case for keeping the TA binary secret from the TAM ?



[Hannes] it is more and more common today to protect binaries from inspecti=
on because this gives attackers a lot of information. If you don't want to =
use it and only sign the binaries that's fine too. But the option is there =
for you to protect the confidentiality of the binary.



I believe the use case is where the app developer considers the TA binary i=
tself to be secret (e.g., intellectual property worth protecting), but want=
s to allow it to be distributed through a TAM that is run by another organi=
zation, one with more hosting capacity.   Thus the developer puts an encryp=
ted binary in that TAM, and then runs their own lighter weight TAM that jus=
t hands out decryption keys which doesn't need nearly as much much capacity=
/bandwidth.



[TR] Got it but it also allows the possibility of publishing malicious apps=
 the TAM/SP may not be able to validate (For instance Apple has a strict re=
view process of apps before publishing on the iOS app store). Encrypting th=
e binaries from inspection by attacker is required but TAM/SP are not neces=
sarily the attackers.



n) We allow a way for an Untrusted Application to check the trustworthiness=
 of a TA.



Comment> You may want to re-phrase the above line, and remove "we".



[Hannes] I think we should delete this paragraph:

"

   We allow a way for an Untrusted Application to check the

   trustworthiness of a TA.  A TEEP Broker has a function to allow an

   application to query the information about a TA.

"



Agreed it should be deleted.  This was the second point of issue #116 that =
I filed.



[TR] Okay.



o) A notification that an incoming TEEP session is being requested by a TEE=
P Agent.



Comment> What you meant by "incoming TEEP session" ?



[Hannes] Dave should respond to this one because it relates to the HTTP tra=
nsport, I believe.



The TEEP protocol requires the agent to connect to the TAM.   This is a not=
ification about the initial connection.

See the transport spec for more details.



[TR] Thanks for the clarification.





p) How does the TEEP broker communicate with the TEEP agent ?



[Hannes] Via an API, for example the GP TEEP Client API.



Right, implementation-specific detail.



[TR] Okay.



q) Section 5.3 says the architecture uses PKI but Section 9.1 discusses sel=
f-signed certificates. Please fix.



[Hannes] We need to clarify the statement about the self-signed TA binaries=
.



Sure.  Figure 4 talks about multiple certificates.   5.3 is a general state=
ment about multiple types.

9.1 is about one specific type of cert that may or may not have a PKI.

So they are not in contradiction but yes clarification would be good.



[TR] What is need for self-signed certificates when code signing certificat=
es by CA are used today ?



r) In Figure 4, for the purpose of "Code signing" my understanding is the l=
ocation of corresponding CA certs is both TEE and TAM.



[Hannes] I believe it would be useful to also store the CA cert that is use=
d for code signing at the TAM because then it can verify the signed TAs.



I don't believe there is any such requirement on a TAM.   It might be "usef=
ul" but is not required in my view.



[TR] why do you think verification in TAM is not required ?



If we indeed believe the text in Section 9.1 is correct then that code sign=
ing CA cert also needs to be made available to the TEEP Broker and potentia=
lly even to the untrusted app.



I don't believe the text in 9.1 is correct.



[TR] You may want to raise an issue in github to correct the text.



s)I have seen several malicious apps in App store in both Android and iOS, =
it is possible for an malicious App developer to publish both malicious unt=
rusted applications

   and malicious trusted applications.  I don't think the TEEP architecture=
 prevents this attack and it is the responsibility of TAM and App store to =
remove such apps

    (see https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2018/01/how-we-fought-ba=
d-apps-and-malicious.html<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?u=
rl=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fandroid-developers.googleblog.com%2F2018%2F01%2Fhow-we-f=
ought-bad-apps-and-malicious.html&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%=
7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7=
C0%7C637139861908969481&sdata=3DgNv0t73IFUqZmdnXjWmpb9bAyoYGfczM6oRe66Qlaog=
%3D&reserved=3D0>)



[Hannes] Yes, it would be the responsibility of the TAM, the device manufac=
turer and the SP / developer to ensure that they do not distribute maliciou=
s TAs.



It's the responsibility of the TAM to not install malicious trusted apps, o=
nly authorized ones.



I don't think it's correct to say it's the responsibility of the TAM to "re=
move" malicious trusted apps, since it shouldn't have installed it in the f=
irst place.

The only case where "removal" might make sense is if the TAM previously aut=
horized a trusted app, and later changed its policy that such TA is no long=
er authorized (e.g., because it was determined to be buggy or malicious or =
whatever else).



[TR] You may want to discuss the above case in the document.  If the truste=
d app is removed by TAM because it is malicious, some notification to the u=
ser would be helpful to remove the associated untrusted application in the =
REE.



-Tiru





Ciao

Hannes



Cheers,

-Tiru


From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com<mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:44 AM
To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com<mailto:Ti=
rumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>>; teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture


CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you =
recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

________________________________
I opened one pull request for editorial issues (https://github.com/ietf-tee=
p/architecture/pull/109<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fpull%2F109&data=3D=
02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f9=
88bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908969481&sdata=3DS36SLw%2F=
2T7yK210awwzbpWTE0LAN9r1WFtkE5qG%2Bfl0%3D&reserved=3D0>),
and filed seven other issues listed at https://github..com/ietf-teep/archit=
ecture/issues<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3=
A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fissues&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdtha=
ler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91=
ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908979441&sdata=3D5aqxPRt0miAe5DsoenjkTn2=
qbJlVWTeciLtw9SBVn1E%3D&reserved=3D0>

110) Service Provider discussion is confusing<https://nam06.safelinks.prote=
ction.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitectur=
e%2Fissues%2F110&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4=
c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908=
979441&sdata=3DKPNhnXV43eP8ZmdSqv3Vkbcj%2FPUlt5G3qYUgWPOBT%2F0%3D&reserved=
=3D0>
111) Terminology section is not consistently ordered<https://nam06.safelink=
s.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farch=
itecture%2Fissues%2F111&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5=
f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63713=
9861908979441&sdata=3DY%2FwhR2qzEc86xYboYueIlwI7jGUlIUnUp03qQ%2FclAMs%3D&re=
served=3D0>
112) Text about carriers is confusing<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fissu=
es%2F112&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d=
79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908989393&s=
data=3DR1xs7Zt7GAt%2Bj0cv8rE273CmG4Y%2FPSQ5bB1SXVVjUS0%3D&reserved=3D0>
113) Section 6.2.3 contradicts section 4.2<https://nam06.safelinks.protecti=
on.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2=
Fissues%2F113&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908989=
393&sdata=3DfYt0nEoCNSxthFVKq%2FmxutxQgpThx8L1Vn3h%2BxLhKxE%3D&reserved=3D0=
>
114) Figure 3 is too hard to understand<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.=
outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fis=
sues%2F114&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa0=
8d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908989393=
&sdata=3Do%2F6RQy0IdDZQ1Z5wDYg5WVamJ31SS6JUzU8nCLB8ksk%3D&reserved=3D0>
115) Reference to IANA number<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fissues%2F115=
&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece=
5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908999352&sdata=3Dx=
PDRcUGvaicejeAxxLOt5Cc%2BaFAEpe1X1XBnW8TOrY8%3D&reserved=3D0>
116) Incorrect/obsolete statements about TEEP Broker<https://nam06.safelink=
s.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farch=
itecture%2Fissues%2F116&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5=
f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63713=
9861908999352&sdata=3DO8lfJd0TAW1aEU50xAO7U09PPsCtcrCCPBFNHlPC2pA%3D&reserv=
ed=3D0>

I have ideas about how to address all of them, but if others have comments,=
 please speak up.

The possibly(?) contentious one might be that in #110 I am proposing to use=
 the term
"App Developer" throughout, instead of using "Service Provider" in some pla=
ces and "App Developer" in others
and then saying they're synonymous like it does now.   (I'd be ok with ment=
ioning that in some contexts an App Developer
might be known as a "Service Provider" if that is important to GlobalPlatfo=
rm folks.)

Dave

From: TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf =
Of Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2019 4:17 AM
To: teep@ietf.org<mailto:teep@ietf.org>
Subject: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture

Hi all,

This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) for TEEP architecture.  T=
he version to be reviewed is https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-ar=
chitecture-05<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3=
A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-teep-architecture-05&data=3D02%7C=
01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf8=
6f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861909009306&sdata=3DjkSiFYpG8FFVJU=
Pk7nzK4VCH2j3im3RyFYtQj7ieHCw%3D&reserved=3D0>

The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 January 2020.

Please send your comments to the list before this date and your assessment =
of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publication.

Regards,
Tiru & Nancy
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid=
ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p=
lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any=
 other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in =
any medium. Thank you.

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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Hannes and Dave,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks for the responses. Please see inline [TR] <o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Thaler &lt;dthaler@microsoft.com&g=
t; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 8, 2020 1:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hannes Tschofenig &lt;Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com&gt;; Konda, Tiru=
maleswar Reddy &lt;TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com&gt;; teep@ietf.org<br=
>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"1" cellpadding=3D"0" style=3D"bac=
kground:#F3FF33;border:solid #9B9A87 1.5pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border:none;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:#9B8B3E">CAUTION</span></strong><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#9B8B3E">:</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:bla=
ck">
 External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recogniz=
e the sender and know the content is safe.</span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Below<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:#1F4=
97D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b> Hannes Tscho=
fenig &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com">Hannes.Tschofenig@ar=
m.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 7, 2020 1:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:TirumaleswarRedd=
y_Konda@McAfee.com">TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com</a>&gt;; Dave Thaler=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com">dthaler@microsoft.com</a>&gt;=
;
<a href=3D"mailto:teep@ietf.org">teep@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Hi Tiru, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Thanks for the review. Th=
ere is clearly room for improving the write-up.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">A few remarks below. <o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b> TEEP &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org">teep-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 7, 2020 7:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dave Thaler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com">dthaler=
@microsoft.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:teep@ietf.org">teep@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-arch=
itecture<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[As an individual]<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Hi Dave,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">I have reviewed the dr=
aft and have comments and nits listed below:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">a) It is not clear fro=
m the Introduction how TEE is different from a Closed OS like Google Chrome=
book or Windows 10S ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nb=
sp;The benefit of Payment application running in Closed OS verses in TEE is=
 not evident from the description. What part of the Payment application run=
s in the REE and TEE respectively ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; If biometric identification information is securely stored in TEE for id=
entification, how does the TEE identify the biometric identification inform=
ation is not retrieved by an malicious agent in the REE.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; Section 3.3 (Internet of things), How does the architecture ensure the s=
ensitive data is retrieved by a legitimate application in the REE and not b=
y an malicious application ? &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] The TEE adds =
another layer of software isolation. To protect one TA to steal data from a=
nother TA the two TAs need to be isolated against each other. Depending on =
the TEE technology you are using this
 is accomplished via different means. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">It is up to the applic=
ation developer to decide how they best want to separate the REE and the TE=
E part, which in part depends a bit on what type of payment protocol they a=
re using. In some other cases (probably
 more realistic) they may be using an already existing payment system, whic=
h is provided as a TA, and they are just using it. In general, it does not =
strike me as a great idea to have random smart phone app developers writing=
 their own payment software.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] Got it, Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The document (inten=
tionally) makes no statement about whether a &#8220;close OS&#8221; as you =
put it, is or is not a TEE.&nbsp;&nbsp; The question is really about whethe=
r such an OS prevents code injection attacks (e.g., due to
 buffer overruns or whatever else), prevents data modification attacks, etc=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] Closed OS prevent the above attacks, a malic=
ious app cannot read/modify the data of the other apps (e.g., ransomware at=
tack is not possible, see
<a href=3D"https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/3438631?hl=3Den">ht=
tps://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/3438631?hl=3Den</a>).&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">b) Why should the list=
 of trust anchors on the device be managed by the Device's network carrier =
?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; (you may want to define the term &quot;network carrier&quot;).<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">This is issue #112 =
that I filed.&nbsp;&nbsp; Personally I think the term &#8220;carrier&#8221;=
 should be removed from the doc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] Works for me.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] The text says=
 the following:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&#8220;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">The list of Trust A=
nchors is normally modifiable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; by the Device's owner or Device Administrator.&nbsp; However th=
e Device<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; manufacturer and network carrier may restrict some modification=
s,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; for example, by not allowing the manufacturer or carrier's Trus=
t<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; Anchor to be removed or disabled.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&#8220;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">This describes current=
 practice in the mobile phone industry and may not necessarily be applicabl=
e to other deployment scenarios. Hence, there is no required behavior here.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">c) If the REE is compr=
omised (for example by malware), it could terminate the TEEP broker in REE.=
 How is this attack mitigated ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] If the REE is=
 compromised then that&#8217;s typically not a good thing but the REE side =
still cannot access anything on the secure world, if implemented correctly.=
 It could, however, indeed terminate the TEEP
 broker and avoid any calls to the secure world. This would be a DoS attack=
. It would be possible to periodically schedule an interrupt that is proces=
sed by the secure world to let the secure world double-check the state of t=
he normal world.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Right.&nbsp; DoS at=
tacks by the REE are, in general, not prevented (some TEEs may prevent them=
 but most won&#8217;t).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The TEEP architectu=
re doesn&#8217;t change this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] You may want to explain the above threat vec=
tor in the document.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">d) What happens if the=
 malicious agent acting as TEEP broker launches attacks (e.g. garbage data,=
 replay attack, DoS of messages etc.,) on the TEEP agent, and how will the =
TEEP agent defend itself ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] The TEEP agen=
t dispatches calls to the trusted applications. It is typically a shim laye=
r that just checks parameters of the requests and then relays them to the T=
As. Having a rock solid implementation
 of the TEEP agent is important and of course the TAs need to be implemente=
d properly as well.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">The GP TEE Client API =
is meant to provide a reference design for an API that allows data passing =
back and forth. So, implementing that API properly will be important. This =
is why there is this open source project
 to implement that API so that other developers can just use it. <o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The TEEP Agent impl=
ements a secure protocol (the TEEP protocol) between it and a TAM.<br>
That protocol must be secure against attacks by untrusted intermediaries, i=
ncluding routers, HTTP proxies, and TEEP brokers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] Okay. I think it will be useful to discuss p=
ossible attacks by untrusted intermediaries on the TEEP agent and how the T=
EEP agent can protect itself (either in this document or in the TEEP protoc=
ol specification) ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">e) The below line is n=
ot clear to me:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Enumeration and access=
 to the appropriate TEEP Broker is up to the Rich Execution Environment and=
 the Untrusted Applications..<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] There may be =
multiple TEEP Brokers on the system and the interaction between untrusted a=
pps and the TEEP broker is up to a policy implemented by the developer.<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I agree the line is=
 confusingly worded.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] Please fix in the next update. <span style=
=3D"color:#1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">h) A use case explaini=
ng the use of multiple TAM, multiple TEEP brokers on a device, and multiple=
 TEE would be useful to the reader of the specification.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Isn&#8217;t that wh=
at Figure 2 already provides?&nbsp; Can you elaborate on what you&#8217;re =
looking for?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] I am looking for use cases, the text propose=
d by Hannes below looks like a good starting point.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] Definitely a =
good idea to add text with use cases.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Here is my quick respo=
nse: <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l5 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7=
.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>Multiple TAMs: you could t=
hink about this as having multiple code repositories. Different SPs may pre=
fer to use certain TAMs for their software distribution.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l5 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7=
.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>Multiple TEEP brokers: thi=
s can occur when you have a broker offered by the OS and one bundled with t=
he untrusted app.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l5 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">-<span style=3D"font:7=
.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>Multiple TEEs: This depend=
s on the TEE technology. In the TrustZone case you may have a multi-process=
or system and each processor comes with TrustZone support.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">i) When a TEEP Broker =
receives a request from an Untrusted Application<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp; to instal=
l a TA, a list of TAM URIs may be provided for that TA, and<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp; the reque=
st is passed to the TEEP Agent.&nbsp; If the TEEP Agent decides<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp; that the =
TA needs to be installed, the TEEP Agent selects a single<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp; TAM URI t=
hat is consistent with the list of trusted TAMs provisioned<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp; on the de=
vice invokes the HTTP transport for TEEP to connect to the<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp; TAM URI a=
nd begins a TEEP protocol exchange.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Comment&gt; I am not s=
ure why the architecture draft is discussing the protocol aspects like HTTP=
 for TEEP ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] I believe it =
does not need to mention HTTP but it could list it as an example.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sure.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">On the other hand, =
we have a WG document, and the architecture document can mention it as expl=
aining how that doc fits into the architecture and relates to the other doc=
s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] Fair point. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">j) What if the malware=
 in REE instructs the TEEP agent via TEEP broker to keep installing/uninsta=
lling TA (over-whelm the TEEP agent and TEE or installing un-necessary TA t=
o have no memory for the required TA)
 ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">An REE can always c=
onduct DoS attacks against a TEEP agent as discussed in your question (c) a=
bove.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">However the word &#=
8220;instructs&#8221; is incorrect since the TEEP Agent is authoritative, y=
our question should say &#8220;requests&#8221; instead, since the TEEP agen=
t is free to ignore/reject the request.&nbsp; (This is why section
 6.2.1 has &#8220;RequestTA&#8221;, as does the transport spec.)<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] Having a comp=
romised REE environment that causes all sorts of apps to be installed is po=
ssible (assuming the TEE is authorizing the installation of those apps). An=
 implementation of the secure world,
 most likely the TEE OS, will have to make sure that the device does not in=
stall TAs and overwrite the memory space they have been configured to use.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] My suggestion is to discuss the above attack=
 in the document.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.5in;mso-=
list:l4 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">i)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>What is the use case for &=
quot;Personalization data&quot; ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There is an example=
 in section 4.4:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:black;margin-left:0in;mso-lis=
t:l1 level1 lfo7;word-break:break-all">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;backgro=
und:#FFFDF5">an example of<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"color:black;margin-left:0in;mso-lis=
t:l3 level1 lfo10;word-break:break-all">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;backgro=
und:#FFFDF5">personalization data might be a secret symmetric key used by t=
he TA<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"color:#1F49=
7D;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo10"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:#FFFDF5">to communicate with t=
he SP</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] Thanks, I missed the example. <o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] Personalizati=
on data is meant to make each instance of the TA unique and potentially tie=
 it to a specific user. Imagine a TA that implements biometric functionalit=
y: there has to be something in TA that
 relates this instance of the TA to a specific human, for example by storin=
g a fingerprint alongside the TA as configuration data.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">j) Why is Section 4.5 =
discussing Case 1 when it not in use ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] We just descr=
ibe the possible approach and illustrates how things are done today. There =
is, however, a lot of development going on in the area of TEEs and I suspec=
t that we will see all sorts of different
 use cases showing up in the future as the technology gets used in differen=
t environments.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Agree with Hannes.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] Okay. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">k) The below line is n=
ot clear to me (please elaborate):<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Consequently, a TAM ge=
nerally communicates with an Untrusted Application about how it gets messag=
es that originate from a TEE inside a device.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] The key point=
 of that paragraph is that today TEEs do not communicate with the outside w=
orld but require the cooperation with something on the REE side.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">That whole paragrap=
h is confusingly worded, and I currently plan to rewrite it based on my mar=
ked up hard copy
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] Okay. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">l) What is the use cas=
e for one TA and multiple SP ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] I am not sure=
. I let Ming, DaveW, or DaveT respond.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">No idea, I&#8217;d =
propose deleting that section.&nbsp;&nbsp; I was confused by it as well.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] Works for me.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">m) what is the use cas=
e for keeping the TA binary secret from the TAM ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] it is more an=
d more common today to protect binaries from inspection because this gives =
attackers a lot of information. If you don&#8217;t want to use it and only =
sign the binaries that&#8217;s fine too. But the
 option is there for you to protect the confidentiality of the binary. <o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I believe the use c=
ase is where the app developer considers the TA binary itself to be secret =
(e.g., intellectual property worth protecting), but wants to allow it to be=
 distributed through a TAM that is run
 by another organization, one with more hosting capacity.&nbsp;&nbsp; Thus =
the developer puts an encrypted binary in that TAM, and then runs their own=
 lighter weight TAM that just hands out decryption keys which doesn&#8217;t=
 need nearly as much much capacity/bandwidth.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] Got it but it also allows the possibility of=
 publishing malicious apps the TAM/SP may not be able to validate (For inst=
ance Apple has a strict review process of apps before publishing on the iOS=
 app store). Encrypting the binaries
 from inspection by attacker is required but TAM/SP are not necessarily the=
 attackers.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">n) We allow a way for =
an Untrusted Application to check the trustworthiness of a TA.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Comment&gt; You may wa=
nt to re-phrase the above line, and remove &quot;we&quot;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] I think we sh=
ould delete this paragraph:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&#8220;<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; We=
 allow a way for an Untrusted Application to check the<o:p></o:p></span></p=
re>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; tr=
ustworthiness of a TA.&nbsp; A TEEP Broker has a function to allow an<o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><span style=3D"color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp; ap=
plication to query the information about a TA.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&#8220;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Agreed it should be=
 deleted.&nbsp; This was the second point of issue #116 that I filed.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] Okay.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">o) A notification that=
 an incoming TEEP session is being requested by a TEEP Agent.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Comment&gt; What you m=
eant by &quot;incoming TEEP session&quot; ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] Dave should r=
espond to this one because it relates to the HTTP transport, I believe.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The TEEP protocol r=
equires the agent to connect to the TAM.&nbsp;&nbsp; This is a notification=
 about the initial connection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">See the transport s=
pec for more details.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] Thanks for the clarification.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">p) How does the TEEP b=
roker communicate with the TEEP agent ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] Via an API, f=
or example the GP TEEP Client API.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Right, implementati=
on-specific detail.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] Okay. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">q) Section 5.3 says th=
e architecture uses PKI but Section 9.1 discusses self-signed certificates.=
 Please fix.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] We need to cl=
arify the statement about the self-signed TA binaries.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Sure.&nbsp; Figure =
4 talks about multiple certificates.&nbsp;&nbsp; 5.3 is a general statement=
 about multiple types.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">9.1 is about one sp=
ecific type of cert that may or may not have a PKI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So they are not in =
contradiction but yes clarification would be good.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] What is need for self-signed certificates wh=
en code signing certificates by CA are used today ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">r) In Figure 4, for th=
e purpose of &quot;Code signing&quot; my understanding is the location of c=
orresponding CA certs is both TEE and TAM.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] I believe it =
would be useful to also store the CA cert that is used for code signing at =
the TAM because then it can verify the signed TAs.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I don&#8217;t belie=
ve there is any such requirement on a TAM.&nbsp;&nbsp; It might be &#8220;u=
seful&#8221; but is not required in my view.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">[TR] why do you thi=
nk verification in TAM is not required ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">If we indeed believe t=
he text in Section 9.1 is correct then that code signing CA cert also needs=
 to be made available to the TEEP Broker and potentially even to the untrus=
ted app.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I don&#8217;t belie=
ve the text in 9.1 is correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] You may want to raise an issue in github to =
correct the text.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">s)I have seen several =
malicious apps in App store in both Android and iOS, it is possible for an =
malicious App developer to publish both malicious untrusted applications
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;and =
malicious trusted applications.&nbsp; I don't think the TEEP architecture p=
revents this attack and it is the responsibility of TAM and App store to re=
move such apps
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;(see <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhtt=
ps%3A%2F%2Fandroid-developers.googleblog.com%2F2018%2F01%2Fhow-we-fought-ba=
d-apps-and-malicious.html&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbc=
f3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7=
C637139861908969481&amp;sdata=3DgNv0t73IFUqZmdnXjWmpb9bAyoYGfczM6oRe66Qlaog=
%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2018/01/how-we-fought-bad-apps-an=
d-malicious.html</a>)
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">[Hannes] Yes, it would=
 be the responsibility of the TAM, the device manufacturer and the SP / dev=
eloper to ensure that they do not distribute malicious TAs.<span style=3D"c=
olor:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It&#8217;s the resp=
onsibility of the TAM to not install malicious trusted apps, only authorize=
d ones.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I don&#8217;t think=
 it&#8217;s correct to say it&#8217;s the responsibility of the TAM to &#82=
20;remove&#8221; malicious trusted apps, since it shouldn&#8217;t have inst=
alled it in the first place.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The only case where=
 &#8220;removal&#8221; might make sense is if the TAM previously authorized=
 a trusted app, and later changed its policy that such TA is no longer auth=
orized (e.g., because it was determined to be buggy
 or malicious or whatever else).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR] You may want to discuss the above case in th=
e document.&nbsp; If the trusted app is removed by TAM because it is malici=
ous, some notification to the user would be helpful to remove the associate=
d untrusted application in the REE.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-Tiru<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Ciao<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Hannes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">-Tiru<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Thaler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dthal=
er@microsoft.com">dthaler@microsoft.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:TirumaleswarRedd=
y_Konda@McAfee.com">TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:teep@ietf.org">teep@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"1" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" style=3D"background:#F3FF33;border:solid #9B9A87 1.5pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border:none;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sa=
ns-serif;color:#9B8B3E">CAUTION</span></strong><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#9B8B3E">:</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:bla=
ck">
 External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recogniz=
e the sender and know the content is safe.</span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I opened one pull request for editorial issues<span =
style=3D"color:#1F497D"> (</span><a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%=
2Fpull%2F109&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4=
c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908=
969481&amp;sdata=3DS36SLw%2F2T7yK210awwzbpWTE0LAN9r1WFtkE5qG%2Bfl0%3D&amp;r=
eserved=3D0">https://github.com/ietf-teep/architecture/pull/109</a><span st=
yle=3D"color:#1F497D">),
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and filed seven other issues listed at <a href=3D"ht=
tps://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.co=
m%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fissues&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40micros=
oft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db=
47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908979441&amp;sdata=3D5aqxPRt0miAe5DsoenjkTn2qbJlVWTe=
ciLtw9SBVn1E%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">
https://github..com/ietf-teep/architecture/issues</a><span style=3D"color:#=
1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">110) <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fiss=
ues%2F110&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908979=
441&amp;sdata=3DKPNhnXV43eP8ZmdSqv3Vkbcj%2FPUlt5G3qYUgWPOBT%2F0%3D&amp;rese=
rved=3D0">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Service Provider discussion is confusing</span></a><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">111) <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fiss=
ues%2F111&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908979=
441&amp;sdata=3DY%2FwhR2qzEc86xYboYueIlwI7jGUlIUnUp03qQ%2FclAMs%3D&amp;rese=
rved=3D0">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Terminology section is not consistently ordered</spa=
n></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">112) <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fiss=
ues%2F112&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908989=
393&amp;sdata=3DR1xs7Zt7GAt%2Bj0cv8rE273CmG4Y%2FPSQ5bB1SXVVjUS0%3D&amp;rese=
rved=3D0">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Text about carriers is confusing</span></a><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">113) <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fiss=
ues%2F113&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908989=
393&amp;sdata=3DfYt0nEoCNSxthFVKq%2FmxutxQgpThx8L1Vn3h%2BxLhKxE%3D&amp;rese=
rved=3D0">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Section 6.2.3 contradicts section 4.2</span></a><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">114) <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fiss=
ues%2F114&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908989=
393&amp;sdata=3Do%2F6RQy0IdDZQ1Z5wDYg5WVamJ31SS6JUzU8nCLB8ksk%3D&amp;reserv=
ed=3D0">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Figure 3 is too hard to understand</span></a><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">115) <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fiss=
ues%2F115&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908999=
352&amp;sdata=3DxPDRcUGvaicejeAxxLOt5Cc%2BaFAEpe1X1XBnW8TOrY8%3D&amp;reserv=
ed=3D0">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:#24292E;te=
xt-decoration:none">Reference to IANA number</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">116) <a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.o=
utlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fietf-teep%2Farchitecture%2Fiss=
ues%2F116&amp;data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31=
fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861908999=
352&amp;sdata=3DO8lfJd0TAW1aEU50xAO7U09PPsCtcrCCPBFNHlPC2pA%3D&amp;reserved=
=3D0">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:#24292E;te=
xt-decoration:none">Incorrect/obsolete statements about TEEP Broker</span><=
/a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have ideas about how to address all of them, but i=
f others have comments, please speak up.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The possibly(?) contentious one might be that in #11=
0 I am proposing to use the term<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8220;App Developer&#8221; throughout, instead of u=
sing &#8220;Service Provider&#8221; in some places and &#8220;App Developer=
&#8221; in others<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and then saying they&#8217;re synonymous like it doe=
s now.&nbsp;&nbsp; (I&#8217;d be ok with mentioning that in some contexts a=
n App Developer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">might be known as a &#8220;Service Provider&#8221; i=
f that is important to GlobalPlatform folks.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dave<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> TEEP &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:teep-bounces=
@ietf.org">teep-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 23, 2019 4:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:teep@ietf.org">teep@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architec=
ture<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) fo=
r TEEP architecture. &nbsp;The version to be reviewed is
<a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-teep-architecture-05&amp;data=3D02%7=
C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%7C72f988bf=
86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637139861909009306&amp;sdata=3DjkSiFYpG8=
FFVJUPk7nzK4VCH2j3im3RyFYtQj7ieHCw%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-architecture-05</a> <o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 Ja=
nuary 2020.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please send your comments to the list before this da=
te and your assessment of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publicat=
ion.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tiru &amp; Nancy<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,serif">IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and=
 any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are no=
t the intended recipient, please notify the sender
 immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it f=
or any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CY4PR1601MB125473BCC69227A45D62FAA7EA390CY4PR1601MB1254_--


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From: Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
To: "suit@ietf.org" <suit@ietf.org>, "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
CC: Matthias Waehlisch <m.waehlisch@fu-berlin.de>
Thread-Topic: Hackathon almost "sold out"
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teep/YyOpnKPTpdj7PQupKqwn5MYQxDQ>
Subject: [Teep] Hackathon almost "sold out"
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Hi all,

the deadline for the "Securing the IoT (SIoT) Hackathon" is in 7 days but w=
e are reaching our maximum participant limit already.
If you plan to participate and have not yet registered, please do so as soo=
n as possible.

Here is the webpage with the registration link:
https://siot-hackathon.github.io

Ciao
Hannes & Matthias

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid=
ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p=
lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any=
 other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in =
any medium. Thank you.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confid=
ential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, p=
lease notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any=
 other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in =
any medium. Thank you.


From nobody Sat Jan 11 22:42:01 2020
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From: Mingliang Pei <mingliang.pei@broadcom.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2020 22:41:39 -0800
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To: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com>
Cc: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>,  "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
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Hi Tiru, thank you very much for your comments and suggestions. Thanks Dave
and Hannes for prompt response for us.

Please see my comments inlines, mostly on top of your last replies, and for
several questions that need additional clarification.

Thanks,

Ming

On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 11:53 PM Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <
TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com> wrote:

> Hi Hannes and Dave,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the responses. Please see inline [TR]
>
>
>
> *From:* Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 8, 2020 1:14 AM
> *To:* Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>; Konda, Tirumaleswar
> Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>; teep@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
>
>
>
> *CAUTION*: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless
> you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Below
>
>
>
> *From:* Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 7, 2020 1:28 AM
> *To:* Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>;
> Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>; teep@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
>
>
>
> Hi Tiru,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the review. There is clearly room for improving the write-up.
>
>
>
> A few remarks below.
>
>
>
> *From:* TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Konda, Tirumaleswar
> Reddy
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 7, 2020 7:39 AM
> *To:* Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>; teep@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for
> draft-ietf-teep-architecture
>
>
>
> [As an individual]
>
>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
>
>
> I have reviewed the draft and have comments and nits listed below:
>
>
>
> a) It is not clear from the Introduction how TEE is different from a
> Closed OS like Google Chromebook or Windows 10S ?
>
>      The benefit of Payment application running in Closed OS verses in TE=
E
> is not evident from the description. What part of the Payment application
> runs in the REE and TEE respectively ?
>
>      If biometric identification information is securely stored in TEE fo=
r
> identification, how does the TEE identify the biometric identification
> information is not retrieved by an malicious agent in the REE.
>
>      Section 3.3 (Internet of things), How does the architecture ensure
> the sensitive data is retrieved by a legitimate application in the REE an=
d
> not by an malicious application ?
>
>
>
> [Hannes] The TEE adds another layer of software isolation. To protect one
> TA to steal data from another TA the two TAs need to be isolated against
> each other. Depending on the TEE technology you are using this is
> accomplished via different means.
>
>
>
> It is up to the application developer to decide how they best want to
> separate the REE and the TEE part, which in part depends a bit on what ty=
pe
> of payment protocol they are using. In some other cases (probably more
> realistic) they may be using an already existing payment system, which is
> provided as a TA, and they are just using it. In general, it does not
> strike me as a great idea to have random smart phone app developers writi=
ng
> their own payment software.
>
>
>
> [TR] Got it, Thanks.
>
>
>
> The document (intentionally) makes no statement about whether a =E2=80=9C=
close OS=E2=80=9D
> as you put it, is or is not a TEE.   The question is really about whether
> such an OS prevents code injection attacks (e.g., due to buffer overruns =
or
> whatever else), prevents data modification attacks, etc..
>
>
>
> [TR] Closed OS prevent the above attacks, a malicious app cannot
> read/modify the data of the other apps (e.g., ransomware attack is not
> possible, see https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/3438631?hl=3De=
n
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3JPSEBNruBmUKctmhaBoGpT7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fsupport.google.com%2Fchromebook%2Fanswer%2F3438631%3Fhl%3Den>).
>
>
>
>
> b) Why should the list of trust anchors on the device be managed by the
> Device's network carrier ?
>
>      (you may want to define the term "network carrier").
>
>
>
> This is issue #112 that I filed.   Personally I think the term =E2=80=9Cc=
arrier=E2=80=9D
> should be removed from the doc.
>
>
>

Dave has this issue tracked, and I added comment there. For one, "a network
carrier" applies to mobile device only, and we have other TEE device types.
On the other hand, the "network carrier" text does have some relevance
here. For mobile devices, Trust Anchors are expected to be set by device
manufacturers. What to put by a device manufacturer into devices, however,
is often governed or instructed by the network carrier that a particular
mobile device is produced for. That is the history of this context. I think
we can make this as an example of set for such a case.

[TR] Works for me.
>
>
>
> [Hannes] The text says the following:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
> The list of Trust Anchors is normally modifiable
>
>       by the Device's owner or Device Administrator.  However the Device
>
>       manufacturer and network carrier may restrict some modifications,
>
>       for example, by not allowing the manufacturer or carrier's Trust
>
>       Anchor to be removed or disabled.
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
>
>
> This describes current practice in the mobile phone industry and may not
> necessarily be applicable to other deployment scenarios. Hence, there is =
no
> required behavior here.
>
>
>
>
>
> c) If the REE is compromised (for example by malware), it could terminate
> the TEEP broker in REE. How is this attack mitigated ?
>
>
>
> [Hannes] If the REE is compromised then that=E2=80=99s typically not a go=
od thing
> but the REE side still cannot access anything on the secure world, if
> implemented correctly. It could, however, indeed terminate the TEEP broke=
r
> and avoid any calls to the secure world. This would be a DoS attack.. It
> would be possible to periodically schedule an interrupt that is processed
> by the secure world to let the secure world double-check the state of the
> normal world.
>
>
>
> Right.  DoS attacks by the REE are, in general, not prevented (some TEEs
> may prevent them but most won=E2=80=99t).
>
> The TEEP architecture doesn=E2=80=99t change this.
>
>
>
> [TR] You may want to explain the above threat vector in the document.
>
>
[MP] Agreed. Will add some text on this.


>
> d) What happens if the malicious agent acting as TEEP broker launches
> attacks (e.g. garbage data, replay attack, DoS of messages etc.,) on the
> TEEP agent, and how will the TEEP agent defend itself ?
>
>
>
> [Hannes] The TEEP agent dispatches calls to the trusted applications. It
> is typically a shim layer that just checks parameters of the requests and
> then relays them to the TAs. Having a rock solid implementation of the TE=
EP
> agent is important and of course the TAs need to be implemented properly =
as
> well.
>
>
>
> The GP TEE Client API is meant to provide a reference design for an API
> that allows data passing back and forth. So, implementing that API proper=
ly
> will be important. This is why there is this open source project to
> implement that API so that other developers can just use it.
>
>
>
> The TEEP Agent implements a secure protocol (the TEEP protocol) between i=
t
> and a TAM.
> That protocol must be secure against attacks by untrusted intermediaries,
> including routers, HTTP proxies, and TEEP brokers.
>
>
>
> [TR] Okay. I think it will be useful to discuss possible attacks by
> untrusted intermediaries on the TEEP agent and how the TEEP agent can
> protect itself (either in this document or in the TEEP protocol
> specification) ?
>
>
>

[MP] We may add this and the above one in "Security Consideration".


>
> e) The below line is not clear to me:
>
> Enumeration and access to the appropriate TEEP Broker is up to the Rich
> Execution Environment and the Untrusted Applications..
>
>
>
> [Hannes] There may be multiple TEEP Brokers on the system and the
> interaction between untrusted apps and the TEEP broker is up to a policy
> implemented by the developer.
>
>
>
> I agree the line is confusingly worded.
>
>
>
> [TR] Please fix in the next update.
>

[MP] Agreed. Will fix. (Dave has had some on Multiple TEEP Broker).


>
> h) A use case explaining the use of multiple TAM, multiple TEEP brokers o=
n
> a device, and multiple TEE would be useful to the reader of the
> specification.
>
>
>
> Isn=E2=80=99t that what Figure 2 already provides?  Can you elaborate on =
what
> you=E2=80=99re looking for?
>
>
>
> [TR] I am looking for use cases, the text proposed by Hannes below looks
> like a good starting point.
>
>
>
> [Hannes] Definitely a good idea to add text with use cases.
>
> Here is my quick response:
>
>
>
> -          Multiple TAMs: you could think about this as having multiple
> code repositories. Different SPs may prefer to use certain TAMs for their
> software distribution.
>
> -          Multiple TEEP brokers: this can occur when you have a broker
> offered by the OS and one bundled with the untrusted app.
>
> -          Multiple TEEs: This depends on the TEE technology. In the
> TrustZone case you may have a multi-processor system and each processor
> comes with TrustZone support.
>
>
>
> i) When a TEEP Broker receives a request from an Untrusted Application
>
>    to install a TA, a list of TAM URIs may be provided for that TA, and
>
>    the request is passed to the TEEP Agent.  If the TEEP Agent decides
>
>    that the TA needs to be installed, the TEEP Agent selects a single
>
>    TAM URI that is consistent with the list of trusted TAMs provisioned
>
>    on the device invokes the HTTP transport for TEEP to connect to the
>
>    TAM URI and begins a TEEP protocol exchange.
>
>
>
> Comment> I am not sure why the architecture draft is discussing the
> protocol aspects like HTTP for TEEP ?
>
>
>
> [Hannes] I believe it does not need to mention HTTP but it could list it
> as an example.
>
>
>
> Sure.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, we have a WG document, and the architecture document
> can mention it as explaining how that doc fits into the architecture and
> relates to the other docs.
>
>
>
> [TR] Fair point.
>
>
>
> j) What if the malware in REE instructs the TEEP agent via TEEP broker to
> keep installing/uninstalling TA (over-whelm the TEEP agent and TEE or
> installing un-necessary TA to have no memory for the required TA) ?
>
>
>
> An REE can always conduct DoS attacks against a TEEP agent as discussed i=
n
> your question (c) above.
>
> However the word =E2=80=9Cinstructs=E2=80=9D is incorrect since the TEEP =
Agent is
> authoritative, your question should say =E2=80=9Crequests=E2=80=9D instea=
d, since the TEEP
> agent is free to ignore/reject the request.  (This is why section 6.2.1 h=
as
> =E2=80=9CRequestTA=E2=80=9D, as does the transport spec.)
>
>
>
> [Hannes] Having a compromised REE environment that causes all sorts of
> apps to be installed is possible (assuming the TEE is authorizing the
> installation of those apps). An implementation of the secure world, most
> likely the TEE OS, will have to make sure that the device does not instal=
l
> TAs and overwrite the memory space they have been configured to use.
>
>
>
> [TR] My suggestion is to discuss the above attack in the document.
>
>
>

[MP] Good point. We can add this threat discussion in Security
Consideration.


>
> i)                    What is the use case for "Personalization data" ?
>
>
>
> There is an example in section 4.4:
>
>    - an example of
>
>
>    - personalization data might be a secret symmetric key used by the TA
>    - to communicate with the SP
>
>
>
> [TR] Thanks, I missed the example.
>
>
>
> [Hannes] Personalization data is meant to make each instance of the TA
> unique and potentially tie it to a specific user. Imagine a TA that
> implements biometric functionality: there has to be something in TA that
> relates this instance of the TA to a specific human, for example by stori=
ng
> a fingerprint alongside the TA as configuration data.
>
>
>
> j) Why is Section 4.5 discussing Case 1 when it not in use ?
>
>
>
> [Hannes] We just describe the possible approach and illustrates how thing=
s
> are done today. There is, however, a lot of development going on in the
> area of TEEs and I suspect that we will see all sorts of different use
> cases showing up in the future as the technology gets used in different
> environments.
>
>
>
> Agree with Hannes.
>
>
>
> [TR] Okay.
>
>
>
> k) The below line is not clear to me (please elaborate):
>
> Consequently, a TAM generally communicates with an Untrusted Application
> about how it gets messages that originate from a TEE inside a device.
>
>
>
> [Hannes] The key point of that paragraph is that today TEEs do not
> communicate with the outside world but require the cooperation with
> something on the REE side.
>
>
>
> That whole paragraph is confusingly worded, and I currently plan to
> rewrite it based on my marked up hard copy J
>
>
>
> [TR] Okay.
>
>
>
> l) What is the use case for one TA and multiple SP ?
>
>
>
> [Hannes] I am not sure.. I let Ming, DaveW, or DaveT respond.
>
>
>
> No idea, I=E2=80=99d propose deleting that section.   I was confused by i=
t as well.
>
>
>

[MP] A TA software author can license the TA to multiple "buyers" who
installs to their own user devices via their own TAM providers. The buyers
are SPs in the original use case context. A TA developer doesn't
necessarily distribute the TA. We have changed the meaning of SP to be
interchangeable with an "App Developer" along with WG discussion, which
treats the TA authorizer (SP) to devices as the owner of the TA.

A SP may provide its own "TA personalization data". Different SPs may
provide different data. There needs a way to address the case when the same
TA is installed to a device by multiple providers. To this end, the
proposal was to have different "identifiers" for the TA to multiple SPs so
that they don't have to be overwritten. A Device Administrator may decide
which TAM and TA it allows to install to devices.

This is certainly a complex case, and not expected to be common in
practice. Do you feel that we can disallow such a case where a TA author
always directly works with a TAM service to distribute the TA? I feel that
this licensed TA case may still have a place here.

[TR] Works for me.
>
>
>
> m) what is the use case for keeping the TA binary secret from the TAM ?
>
>
>
> [Hannes] it is more and more common today to protect binaries from
> inspection because this gives attackers a lot of information. If you don=
=E2=80=99t
> want to use it and only sign the binaries that=E2=80=99s fine too. But th=
e option
> is there for you to protect the confidentiality of the binary.
>
>
>
> I believe the use case is where the app developer considers the TA binary
> itself to be secret (e.g., intellectual property worth protecting), but
> wants to allow it to be distributed through a TAM that is run by another
> organization, one with more hosting capacity.   Thus the developer puts a=
n
> encrypted binary in that TAM, and then runs their own lighter weight TAM
> that just hands out decryption keys which doesn=E2=80=99t need nearly as =
much much
> capacity/bandwidth.
>
>
>
> [TR] Got it but it also allows the possibility of publishing malicious
> apps the TAM/SP may not be able to validate (For instance Apple has a
> strict review process of apps before publishing on the iOS app store).
> Encrypting the binaries from inspection by attacker is required but TAM/S=
P
> are not necessarily the attackers.
>
>
[MP] I think this risk can be some contract between the TAM and the TA
provider to manage. When a TAM doesn't want to risk its reputation to
distribute malware, it may demand to inspect binary that a TA provider
gives. Agree with you that a TAM most probably have the original TA binary
access, who are not treated as an attacker by the TA developer.

Note that the more common case of TA binary encryption common is for the
TAM to encrypt the TA binary to prevent any man-in-the-middle from
inspecting the binary. App Developer encrypted TA binary has a decryption
key distribution challenge to a device. The separate TAM was devised for
this purpose, but that was largely used for "personalization data" support
case.


>
> n) We allow a way for an Untrusted Application to check the
> trustworthiness of a TA.
>
>
>
> Comment> You may want to re-phrase the above line, and remove "we".
>
>
>
> [Hannes] I think we should delete this paragraph:
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
>    We allow a way for an Untrusted Application to check the
>
>    trustworthiness of a TA.  A TEEP Broker has a function to allow an
>
>    application to query the information about a TA.
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
>
>
> Agreed it should be deleted.  This was the second point of issue #116 tha=
t
> I filed.
>
>
>
> [TR] Okay.
>
>
>

[MP] Agreed too. It was originally set there for local query without
contacting a remote TAM to check a TA.

o) A notification that an incoming TEEP session is being requested by a
> TEEP Agent.
>
>
>
> Comment> What you meant by "incoming TEEP session" ?
>
>
>
> [Hannes] Dave should respond to this one because it relates to the HTTP
> transport, I believe.
>
>
>
> The TEEP protocol requires the agent to connect to the TAM.   This is a
> notification about the initial connection.
>
> See the transport spec for more details.
>
>
>
> [TR] Thanks for the clarification.
>
>
>
>
>
> p) How does the TEEP broker communicate with the TEEP agent ?
>
>
>
> [Hannes] Via an API, for example the GP TEEP Client API.
>
>
>
> Right, implementation-specific detail.
>
>
>
> [TR] Okay.
>
>
>
> q) Section 5.3 says the architecture uses PKI but Section 9.1 discusses
> self-signed certificates. Please fix.
>
>
>
> [Hannes] We need to clarify the statement about the self-signed TA
> binaries.
>
>
>
> Sure.  Figure 4 talks about multiple certificates.   5.3 is a general
> statement about multiple types.
>
> 9.1 is about one specific type of cert that may or may not have a PKI.
>
> So they are not in contradiction but yes clarification would be good.
>
>
>
> [TR] What is need for self-signed certificates when code signing
> certificates by CA are used today ?
>
>
>
> r) In Figure 4, for the purpose of "Code signing" my understanding is the
> location of corresponding CA certs is both TEE and TAM.
>
>
>
> [Hannes] I believe it would be useful to also store the CA cert that is
> used for code signing at the TAM because then it can verify the signed TA=
s.
>
>
>
> I don=E2=80=99t believe there is any such requirement on a TAM.   It migh=
t be
> =E2=80=9Cuseful=E2=80=9D but is not required in my view.
>
>
>
> [TR] why do you think verification in TAM is not required ?
>
>
>

[MP]  TA signature verification must be verified. Currently a TEE will
check this code signing, and the CA certificate will be in TEE. See Figure
4 in the doc.

"Code Signing          1 per SP       TA binary          TEE"

Note the above "TA binary encryption" discussion. If a TA is given to a TAM
in an encrypted form, such a signature check isn't feasible. But we can
assume that TAM provider always vet TA binaries that it distributes for its
service reputation protection.

Note that there is also the other TA delivery mode where a TA's binary is
bundled inside an Untrusted Application as binary data. In this case, the
binary isn't sent to TAM for distribution.

There is also the other case: many SPs / TA App Developers use the same
extremely popular TAM service. Device manufacturers may want to limit to
accept only a set of TA providers by using the code signing CA trust list.
The architecture allows such support with the coding signing trust check in
TEE.

If we indeed believe the text in Section 9.1 is correct then that code
> signing CA cert also needs to be made available to the TEEP Broker and
> potentially even to the untrusted app.
>
>
>
> I don=E2=80=99t believe the text in 9.1 is correct.
>
>
>
[MP] See above comment.

> [TR] You may want to raise an issue in github to correct the text.
>
>
>
> s)I have seen several malicious apps in App store in both Android and iOS=
,
> it is possible for an malicious App developer to publish both malicious
> untrusted applications
>
>    and malicious trusted applications.  I don't think the TEEP
> architecture prevents this attack and it is the responsibility of TAM and
> App store to remove such apps
>
>     (see
> https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2018/01/how-we-fought-bad-apps-=
and-malicious.html
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3WoTUQiqn8S8EL5UYFU7jhw7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fa=
ndroid-developers.googleblog.com%252F2018%252F01%252Fhow-we-fought-bad-apps=
-and-malicious.html%26data%3D02%257C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cbc=
f3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%2=
57C0%257C637139861908969481%26sdata%3DgNv0t73IFUqZmdnXjWmpb9bAyoYGfczM6oRe6=
6Qlaog%253D%26reserved%3D0>)
>
>
>
>
> [Hannes] Yes, it would be the responsibility of the TAM, the device
> manufacturer and the SP / developer to ensure that they do not distribute
> malicious TAs.
>
>
>
> It=E2=80=99s the responsibility of the TAM to not install malicious trust=
ed apps,
> only authorized ones.
>
>
>
> I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s correct to say it=E2=80=99s the respon=
sibility of the TAM to
> =E2=80=9Cremove=E2=80=9D malicious trusted apps, since it shouldn=E2=80=
=99t have installed it in
> the first place.
>
> The only case where =E2=80=9Cremoval=E2=80=9D might make sense is if the =
TAM previously
> authorized a trusted app, and later changed its policy that such TA is no
> longer authorized (e.g., because it was determined to be buggy or malicio=
us
> or whatever else).
>
>
>
> [TR] You may want to discuss the above case in the document.  If the
> trusted app is removed by TAM because it is malicious, some notification =
to
> the user would be helpful to remove the associated untrusted application =
in
> the REE.
>
>
>
[MP] Good suggestion. We may touch on this point in Security Consideration
section too.

> -Tiru
>
>
>
>
>
> Ciao
>
> Hannes
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Tiru
>
>
>
> *From:* Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:44 AM
> *To:* Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>;
> teep@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
>
>
>
> *CAUTION*: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless
> you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> I opened one pull request for editorial issues (
> https://github.com/ietf-teep/architecture/pull/109
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/351u59QLtaPT81TMTAvunqB7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fg=
ithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitecture%252Fpull%252F109%26data%3D02%257C0=
1%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C72=
f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%257C0%257C637139861908969481%26sdata%3=
DS36SLw%252F2T7yK210awwzbpWTE0LAN9r1WFtkE5qG%252Bfl0%253D%26reserved%3D0>),
>
>
> and filed seven other issues listed at
> https://github..com/ietf-teep/architecture/issues
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3TrjBmWdEfiS7oUVpmi3Wif7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fg=
ithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitecture%252Fissues%26data%3D02%257C01%257C=
dthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C72f988bf=
86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%257C0%257C637139861908979441%26sdata%3D5aqxP=
Rt0miAe5DsoenjkTn2qbJlVWTeciLtw9SBVn1E%253D%26reserved%3D0>
>
>
>
> 110) Service Provider discussion is confusing
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/39cMDUsNGvSvaSRJP2CQiA57Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fg=
ithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitecture%252Fissues%252F110%26data%3D02%257=
C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C=
72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%257C0%257C637139861908979441%26sdata=
%3DKPNhnXV43eP8ZmdSqv3Vkbcj%252FPUlt5G3qYUgWPOBT%252F0%253D%26reserved%3D0>
>
> 111) Terminology section is not consistently ordered
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3VAiubTPBm8Nu7K6jeyK6yC7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fg=
ithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitecture%252Fissues%252F111%26data%3D02%257=
C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C=
72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%257C0%257C637139861908979441%26sdata=
%3DY%252FwhR2qzEc86xYboYueIlwI7jGUlIUnUp03qQ%252FclAMs%253D%26reserved%3D0>
>
> 112) Text about carriers is confusing
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/35JbtAkeyAguJKDDbAswm587Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fg=
ithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitecture%252Fissues%252F112%26data%3D02%257=
C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C=
72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%257C0%257C637139861908989393%26sdata=
%3DR1xs7Zt7GAt%252Bj0cv8rE273CmG4Y%252FPSQ5bB1SXVVjUS0%253D%26reserved%3D0>
>
> 113) Section 6.2.3 contradicts section 4.2
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3EXPNKjMEAd6Hx9XSx5RnEP7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fg=
ithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitecture%252Fissues%252F113%26data%3D02%257=
C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C=
72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%257C0%257C637139861908989393%26sdata=
%3DfYt0nEoCNSxthFVKq%252FmxutxQgpThx8L1Vn3h%252BxLhKxE%253D%26reserved%3D0>
>
> 114) Figure 3 is too hard to understand
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3Pv5ZDeQraj9Kioz4xbxtPN7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fg=
ithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitecture%252Fissues%252F114%26data%3D02%257=
C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C=
72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%257C0%257C637139861908989393%26sdata=
%3Do%252F6RQy0IdDZQ1Z5wDYg5WVamJ31SS6JUzU8nCLB8ksk%253D%26reserved%3D0>
>
> 115) Reference to IANA number
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/35d9oVECvbeBe1SvSPJ2Aix7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fg=
ithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitecture%252Fissues%252F115%26data%3D02%257=
C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C=
72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%257C0%257C637139861908999352%26sdata=
%3DxPDRcUGvaicejeAxxLOt5Cc%252BaFAEpe1X1XBnW8TOrY8%253D%26reserved%3D0>
>
> 116) Incorrect/obsolete statements about TEEP Broker
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/39puLGz66Tz8pqU7Trrs6Lk7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fg=
ithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitecture%252Fissues%252F116%26data%3D02%257=
C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C=
72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%257C0%257C637139861908999352%26sdata=
%3DO8lfJd0TAW1aEU50xAO7U09PPsCtcrCCPBFNHlPC2pA%253D%26reserved%3D0>
>
>
>
> I have ideas about how to address all of them, but if others have
> comments, please speak up.
>
>
>
> The possibly(?) contentious one might be that in #110 I am proposing to
> use the term
>
> =E2=80=9CApp Developer=E2=80=9D throughout, instead of using =E2=80=9CSer=
vice Provider=E2=80=9D in some
> places and =E2=80=9CApp Developer=E2=80=9D in others
>
> and then saying they=E2=80=99re synonymous like it does now.   (I=E2=80=
=99d be ok with
> mentioning that in some contexts an App Developer
>
> might be known as a =E2=80=9CService Provider=E2=80=9D if that is importa=
nt to
> GlobalPlatform folks.)
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> *From:* TEEP <teep-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Konda, Tirumaleswar
> Reddy
> *Sent:* Monday, December 23, 2019 4:17 AM
> *To:* teep@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) for TEEP architecture.
> The version to be reviewed is
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-architecture-05
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3J8myVCnpenkHpNeAegdSaG7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Ft=
ools.ietf.org%252Fhtml%252Fdraft-ietf-teep-architecture-05%26data%3D02%257C=
01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C7=
2f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%257C0%257C637139861909009306%26sdata%=
3DjkSiFYpG8FFVJUPk7nzK4VCH2j3im3RyFYtQj7ieHCw%253D%26reserved%3D0>
>
>
>
> The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 January 2020.
>
>
>
> Please send your comments to the list before this date and your assessmen=
t
> of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publication.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Tiru & Nancy
>
> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy th=
e
> information in any medium. Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
> TEEP mailing list
> TEEP@ietf.org
>
> https://clicktime.symantec.com/3E4xJQVFydcmnjgspEbLjV47Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F=
%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fteep
>

--0000000000005ff24e059beba7f3
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Tiru, thank you very much for your com=
ments and suggestions. Thanks Dave and Hannes for prompt response for us.<b=
r></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Please see my comments =
inlines, mostly on top of your last replies, and for several questions that=
 need additional clarification.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"ltr">Thanks,</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Ming</di=
v><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On W=
ed, Jan 8, 2020 at 11:53 PM Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com">TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@mcafee.com</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Hannes and Dave,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks for the responses. Please see inline [TR] <u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor blue;bord=
er-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1.5pt;paddi=
ng:0in 0in 0in 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;borde=
r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Thaler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dthal=
er@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">dthaler@microsoft.com</a>&gt; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 8, 2020 1:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hannes Tschofenig &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com</a>&gt;; Konda, Tirumaleswar=
 Reddy &lt;TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:teep@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">teep@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<table style=3D"background:rgb(243,255,51) none repeat scroll 0% 0%;border:=
1.5pt solid rgb(155,154,135)" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"1">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border:medium none;padding:0.75pt">
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:rgb(155,139,62)">CAUTION</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(155,139,62)">:</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:bla=
ck">
 External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recogniz=
e the sender and know the content is safe.</span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center" align=3D"center">
<hr width=3D"100%" size=3D"2" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Below<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:rgb=
(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;borde=
r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b>From:</b> Hannes Tsch=
ofenig &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com" target=3D"_blank">H=
annes.Tschofenig@arm.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 7, 2020 1:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:TirumaleswarRedd=
y_Konda@McAfee.com" target=3D"_blank">TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com</a=
>&gt;; Dave Thaler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com" target=3D"_=
blank">dthaler@microsoft.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:teep@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">teep@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Hi Tiru, <u></u><u></u><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Thanks for the review. T=
here is clearly room for improving the write-up.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">A few remarks below. <u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;borde=
r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><b>From:</b> TEEP &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:teep-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">teep-bounces@ietf.=
org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 7, 2020 7:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dave Thaler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dthaler@microsoft.com" target=
=3D"_blank">dthaler@microsoft.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:teep@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">teep@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-arch=
itecture<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[As an individual]<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Hi Dave,<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">I have reviewed the draft and have comments =
and nits listed below:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">a) It is not clear from the Introduction how=
 TEE is different from a Closed OS like Google Chromebook or Windows 10S ?<=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0The benefit of Paym=
ent application running in Closed OS verses in TEE is not evident from the =
description. What part of the Payment application runs in the REE and TEE r=
espectively ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If biometric identi=
fication information is securely stored in TEE for identification, how does=
 the TEE identify the biometric identification information is not retrieved=
 by an malicious agent in the REE.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Section 3.3 (Intern=
et of things), How does the architecture ensure the sensitive data is retri=
eved by a legitimate application in the REE and not by an malicious applica=
tion ? =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] The TEE adds another layer of softw=
are isolation. To protect one TA to steal data from another TA the two TAs =
need to be isolated against each other. Depending on the TEE technology you=
 are using this
 is accomplished via different means. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">It is up to the application developer to dec=
ide how they best want to separate the REE and the TEE part, which in part =
depends a bit on what type of payment protocol they are using. In some othe=
r cases (probably
 more realistic) they may be using an already existing payment system, whic=
h is provided as a TA, and they are just using it. In general, it does not =
strike me as a great idea to have random smart phone app developers writing=
 their own payment software.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] Got it, Thanks.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">The document (intentionally) makes =
no statement about whether a =E2=80=9Cclose OS=E2=80=9D as you put it, is o=
r is not a TEE.=C2=A0=C2=A0 The question is really about whether such an OS=
 prevents code injection attacks (e.g., due to
 buffer overruns or whatever else), prevents data modification attacks, etc=
..<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] Closed OS prevent the above attacks, a malicious app cannot read/mo=
dify the data of the other apps (e.g., ransomware attack is not possible, s=
ee
<a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3JPSEBNruBmUKctmhaBoGpT7Vc?u=3Dht=
tps%3A%2F%2Fsupport.google.com%2Fchromebook%2Fanswer%2F3438631%3Fhl%3Den" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/3438631?hl=3D=
en</a>).=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">b) Why should the list of trust anchors on t=
he device be managed by the Device&#39;s network carrier ?<u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 (you may want to de=
fine the term &quot;network carrier&quot;).<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">This is issue #112 that I filed.=C2=
=A0=C2=A0 Personally I think the term =E2=80=9Ccarrier=E2=80=9D should be r=
emoved from the doc.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0</p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Dave=
 has this issue tracked, and I added comment there. For one, &quot;a networ=
k carrier&quot; applies to mobile device only, and we have other TEE device=
 types. On the other hand, the &quot;network carrier&quot; text does have s=
ome relevance here. For mobile devices, Trust Anchors are expected to be se=
t by device manufacturers. What to put by a device manufacturer into device=
s, however, is often governed or instructed by the network carrier that a p=
articular mobile device is produced for. That is the history of this contex=
t. I think we can make this as an example of set for such a case.<br></div>=
<div> <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=
=3D"EN-US"><div><div style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor curren=
tcolor blue;border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium me=
dium 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><p><u></u></p>
<p>[TR] Works for me.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] The text says the following:
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=E2=80=9C<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">The list of Trust An=
chors is normally modifiable<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 by the Device&#39;s owner or Device Administrator.=C2=A0 Howev=
er the Device<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 manufacturer and network carrier may restrict some modificatio=
ns,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 for example, by not allowing the manufacturer or carrier&#39;s=
 Trust<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Anchor to be removed or disabled.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=E2=80=9C<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">This describes current practice in the mobil=
e phone industry and may not necessarily be applicable to other deployment =
scenarios. Hence, there is no required behavior here.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">c) If the REE is compromised (for example by=
 malware), it could terminate the TEEP broker in REE. How is this attack mi=
tigated ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] If the REE is compromised then that=
=E2=80=99s typically not a good thing but the REE side still cannot access =
anything on the secure world, if implemented correctly. It could, however, =
indeed terminate the TEEP
 broker and avoid any calls to the secure world. This would be a DoS attack=
.. It would be possible to periodically schedule an interrupt that is proce=
ssed by the secure world to let the secure world double-check the state of =
the normal world.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Right.=C2=A0 DoS attacks by the REE=
 are, in general, not prevented (some TEEs may prevent them but most won=E2=
=80=99t).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">The TEEP architecture doesn=E2=80=
=99t change this.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] You may want to explain the above threat vector in the document.<u>=
</u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u></p></div></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv><br></div><div>[MP] Agreed. Will add some text on this.<br></div><div> <=
br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-=
US"><div><div style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor =
blue;border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1.=
5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u></=
p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">d) What happens if the malicious agent actin=
g as TEEP broker launches attacks (e.g. garbage data, replay attack, DoS of=
 messages etc.,) on the TEEP agent, and how will the TEEP agent defend itse=
lf ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] The TEEP agent dispatches calls to =
the trusted applications. It is typically a shim layer that just checks par=
ameters of the requests and then relays them to the TAs. Having a rock soli=
d implementation
 of the TEEP agent is important and of course the TAs need to be implemente=
d properly as well.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">The GP TEE Client API is meant to provide a =
reference design for an API that allows data passing back and forth. So, im=
plementing that API properly will be important. This is why there is this o=
pen source project
 to implement that API so that other developers can just use it. <u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">The TEEP Agent implements a secure =
protocol (the TEEP protocol) between it and a TAM.<br>
That protocol must be secure against attacks by untrusted intermediaries, i=
ncluding routers, HTTP proxies, and TEEP brokers.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] Okay. I think it will be useful to discuss possible attacks by untr=
usted intermediaries on the TEEP agent and how the TEEP agent can protect i=
tself (either in this document or in the TEEP protocol specification) ?<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0</p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[MP]=
 We may add this and the above one in &quot;Security Consideration&quot;.</=
div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><div><div style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor cur=
rentcolor blue;border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium=
 medium 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><p><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">e) The below line is not clear to me:<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Enumeration and access to the appropriate TE=
EP Broker is up to the Rich Execution Environment and the Untrusted Applica=
tions..<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] There may be multiple TEEP Brokers =
on the system and the interaction between untrusted apps and the TEEP broke=
r is up to a policy implemented by the developer.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">I agree the line is confusingly wor=
ded.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p>[TR] Please fix in the next update. </p></div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div><div>[MP] Agreed. Will fix. (Dave has had some on Multiple TE=
EP Broker).<br></div><div> <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div style=3D"border-color:currentcolo=
r currentcolor currentcolor blue;border-style:none none none solid;border-w=
idth:medium medium medium 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><p><span style=3D"=
color:rgb(31,73,125)">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">h) A use case explaining the use of multiple=
 TAM, multiple TEEP brokers on a device, and multiple TEE would be useful t=
o the reader of the specification.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Isn=E2=80=99t that what Figure 2 al=
ready provides?=C2=A0 Can you elaborate on what you=E2=80=99re looking for?=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] I am looking for use cases, the text proposed by Hannes below looks=
 like a good starting point.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] Definitely a good idea to add text =
with use cases.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Here is my quick response: <u></u>
<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<u></u><span>-<span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>Multiple TAMs: you could thin=
k about this as having multiple code repositories. Different SPs may prefer=
 to use certain TAMs for their software distribution.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<u></u><span>-<span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>Multiple TEEP brokers: this c=
an occur when you have a broker offered by the OS and one bundled with the =
untrusted app.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<u></u><span>-<span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>Multiple TEEs: This depends o=
n the TEE technology. In the TrustZone case you may have a multi-processor =
system and each processor comes with TrustZone support.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">i) When a TEEP Broker receives a request fro=
m an Untrusted Application<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0=C2=A0 to install a TA, a list of TAM =
URIs may be provided for that TA, and<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0=C2=A0 the request is passed to the TE=
EP Agent.=C2=A0 If the TEEP Agent decides<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0=C2=A0 that the TA needs to be install=
ed, the TEEP Agent selects a single<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0=C2=A0 TAM URI that is consistent with=
 the list of trusted TAMs provisioned<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0=C2=A0 on the device invokes the HTTP =
transport for TEEP to connect to the<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0=C2=A0 TAM URI and begins a TEEP proto=
col exchange.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Comment&gt; I am not sure why the architectu=
re draft is discussing the protocol aspects like HTTP for TEEP ?<u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] I believe it does not need to menti=
on HTTP but it could list it as an example.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sure.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">On the other hand, we have a WG doc=
ument, and the architecture document can mention it as explaining how that =
doc fits into the architecture and relates to the other docs.<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] Fair point. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">j) What if the malware in REE instructs the =
TEEP agent via TEEP broker to keep installing/uninstalling TA (over-whelm t=
he TEEP agent and TEE or installing un-necessary TA to have no memory for t=
he required TA)
 ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">An REE can always conduct DoS attac=
ks against a TEEP agent as discussed in your question (c) above.<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">However the word =E2=80=9Cinstructs=
=E2=80=9D is incorrect since the TEEP Agent is authoritative, your question=
 should say =E2=80=9Crequests=E2=80=9D instead, since the TEEP agent is fre=
e to ignore/reject the request.=C2=A0 (This is why section
 6.2.1 has =E2=80=9CRequestTA=E2=80=9D, as does the transport spec.)<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] Having a compromised REE environmen=
t that causes all sorts of apps to be installed is possible (assuming the T=
EE is authorizing the installation of those apps). An implementation of the=
 secure world,
 most likely the TEE OS, will have to make sure that the device does not in=
stall TAs and overwrite the memory space they have been configured to use.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] My suggestion is to discuss the above attack in the document.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0</p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[MP]=
 Good point. We can add this threat discussion in Security Consideration.</=
div><div> <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor cu=
rrentcolor blue;border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium mediu=
m medium 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><p><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:1in">
<u></u><span>i)<span style=3D"font:7pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></span><u></u><span dir=3D"LTR"></span>What is the use case for &quo=
t;Personalization data&quot; ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">There is an example in section 4.4:=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li style=3D"color:black;margin-left:0in;word-break:break-all">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;backgro=
und:rgb(255,253,245) none repeat scroll 0% 0%">an example of<u></u><u></u><=
/span></li></ul>
<ul style=3D"margin-top:0in" type=3D"disc">
<li style=3D"color:black;margin-left:0in;word-break:break-all">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;backgro=
und:rgb(255,253,245) none repeat scroll 0% 0%">personalization data might b=
e a secret symmetric key used by the TA<u></u><u></u></span></li><li style=
=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot=
;Courier New&quot;;color:black;background:rgb(255,253,245) none repeat scro=
ll 0% 0%">to communicate with the SP</span><u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] Thanks, I missed the example. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] Personalization data is meant to ma=
ke each instance of the TA unique and potentially tie it to a specific user=
. Imagine a TA that implements biometric functionality: there has to be som=
ething in TA that
 relates this instance of the TA to a specific human, for example by storin=
g a fingerprint alongside the TA as configuration data.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">j) Why is Section 4.5 discussing Case 1 when=
 it not in use ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] We just describe the possible appro=
ach and illustrates how things are done today. There is, however, a lot of =
development going on in the area of TEEs and I suspect that we will see all=
 sorts of different
 use cases showing up in the future as the technology gets used in differen=
t environments.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Agree with Hannes.<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] Okay. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">k) The below line is not clear to me (please=
 elaborate):<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Consequently, a TAM generally communicates w=
ith an Untrusted Application about how it gets messages that originate from=
 a TEE inside a device.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] The key point of that paragraph is =
that today TEEs do not communicate with the outside world but require the c=
ooperation with something on the REE side.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">That whole paragraph is confusingly=
 worded, and I currently plan to rewrite it based on my marked up hard copy
</span><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings;color:rgb(31,73,125)">J<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] Okay. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">l) What is the use case for one TA and multi=
ple SP ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] I am not sure.. I let Ming, DaveW, =
or DaveT respond.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">No idea, I=E2=80=99d propose deleti=
ng that section.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I was confused by it as well.<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0</p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[MP]=
 A TA software author can license the TA to multiple &quot;buyers&quot; who=
 installs to their own user devices via their own TAM providers. The buyers=
 are SPs in the original use case context. A TA developer doesn&#39;t neces=
sarily distribute the TA. We have changed the meaning of SP to be interchan=
geable with an &quot;App Developer&quot; along with WG discussion, which tr=
eats the TA authorizer (SP) to devices as the owner of the TA.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>A SP may provide its own &quot;TA personalization data&quot;. =
Different SPs may provide different data. There needs a way to address the =
case when the same TA is installed to a device by multiple providers. To th=
is end, the proposal was to have different &quot;identifiers&quot; for the =
TA to multiple SPs so that they don&#39;t have to be overwritten. A Device =
Administrator may decide which TAM and TA it allows to install to devices.<=
br></div><div><br> </div><div>This is certainly a complex case, and not exp=
ected to be common in practice. Do you feel that we can disallow such a cas=
e where a TA author always directly works with a TAM service to distribute =
the TA? I feel that this licensed TA case may still have a place here.<br><=
/div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor cu=
rrentcolor blue;border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium mediu=
m medium 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><p><u></u></p>
<p>[TR] Works for me.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">m) what is the use case for keeping the TA b=
inary secret from the TAM ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] it is more and more common today to=
 protect binaries from inspection because this gives attackers a lot of inf=
ormation. If you don=E2=80=99t want to use it and only sign the binaries th=
at=E2=80=99s fine too. But the
 option is there for you to protect the confidentiality of the binary. <u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">I believe the use case is where the=
 app developer considers the TA binary itself to be secret (e.g., intellect=
ual property worth protecting), but wants to allow it to be distributed thr=
ough a TAM that is run
 by another organization, one with more hosting capacity.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thus =
the developer puts an encrypted binary in that TAM, and then runs their own=
 lighter weight TAM that just hands out decryption keys which doesn=E2=80=
=99t need nearly as much much capacity/bandwidth.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] Got it but it also allows the possibility of publishing malicious a=
pps the TAM/SP may not be able to validate (For instance Apple has a strict=
 review process of apps before publishing on the iOS app store). Encrypting=
 the binaries
 from inspection by attacker is required but TAM/SP are not necessarily the=
 attackers.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u></p></div></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv><br></div><div>[MP] I think this risk can be some contract between the T=
AM and the TA provider to manage. When a TAM doesn&#39;t want to risk its r=
eputation to distribute malware, it may demand to inspect binary that a TA =
provider gives. Agree with you that a TAM most probably have the original T=
A binary access, who are not treated as an attacker by the TA developer.<br=
></div><div><br></div><div>Note that the more common case of TA binary encr=
yption common is for the TAM to encrypt the TA binary to prevent any man-in=
-the-middle from inspecting the binary. App Developer encrypted TA binary h=
as a decryption key distribution challenge to a device. The separate TAM wa=
s devised for this purpose, but that was largely used for &quot;personaliza=
tion data&quot; support case.<br></div><div> <br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(2=
04,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div style=3D"border=
-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor blue;border-style:none none n=
one solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt">=
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">n) We allow a way for an Untrusted Applicati=
on to check the trustworthiness of a TA.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Comment&gt; You may want to re-phrase the ab=
ove line, and remove &quot;we&quot;.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] I think we should delete this parag=
raph:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=E2=80=9C<u></u><u></u></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 W=
e allow a way for an Untrusted Application to check the<u></u><u></u></span=
></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 t=
rustworthiness of a TA.=C2=A0 A TEEP Broker has a function to allow an<u></=
u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 a=
pplication to query the information about a TA.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=E2=80=9C<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Agreed it should be deleted.=C2=A0 =
This was the second point of issue #116 that I filed.<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] Okay.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0</p></div></div></div></blockqu=
ote><div><br></div><div>[MP] Agreed too. It was originally set there for lo=
cal query without contacting a remote TAM to check a TA.<br></div><div> <br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US=
"><div><div style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor bl=
ue;border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1.5p=
t;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">o) A notification that an incoming TEEP sess=
ion is being requested by a TEEP Agent.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Comment&gt; What you meant by &quot;incoming=
 TEEP session&quot; ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] Dave should respond to this one bec=
ause it relates to the HTTP transport, I believe.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">The TEEP protocol requires the agen=
t to connect to the TAM.=C2=A0=C2=A0 This is a notification about the initi=
al connection.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">See the transport spec for more det=
ails.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] Thanks for the clarification.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">p) How does the TEEP broker communicate with=
 the TEEP agent ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] Via an API, for example the GP TEEP=
 Client API.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Right, implementation-specific deta=
il.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] Okay. <u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">q) Section 5.3 says the architecture uses PK=
I but Section 9.1 discusses self-signed certificates. Please fix.<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] We need to clarify the statement ab=
out the self-signed TA binaries.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sure.=C2=A0 Figure 4 talks about mu=
ltiple certificates.=C2=A0=C2=A0 5.3 is a general statement about multiple =
types.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">9.1 is about one specific type of c=
ert that may or may not have a PKI.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">So they are not in contradiction bu=
t yes clarification would be good.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] What is need for self-signed certificates when code signing certifi=
cates by CA are used today ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">r) In Figure 4, for the purpose of &quot;Cod=
e signing&quot; my understanding is the location of corresponding CA certs =
is both TEE and TAM.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] I believe it would be useful to als=
o store the CA cert that is used for code signing at the TAM because then i=
t can verify the signed TAs.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">I don=E2=80=99t believe there is an=
y such requirement on a TAM.=C2=A0=C2=A0 It might be =E2=80=9Cuseful=E2=80=
=9D but is not required in my view.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">[TR] why do you think verification =
in TAM is not required ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0</span></p></div></div=
></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[MP]=C2=A0 TA signature verificatio=
n must be verified. Currently a TEE will check this code signing, and the C=
A certificate will be in TEE. See Figure 4 in the doc.</div><div><pre class=
=3D"gmail-newpage">&quot;Code Signing          1 per SP       TA binary    =
      TEE&quot;<br></pre></div><div>Note the above &quot;TA binary encrypti=
on&quot; discussion. If a TA is given to a TAM in an encrypted form, such a=
 signature check isn&#39;t feasible. But we can assume that TAM provider al=
ways vet TA binaries that it distributes for its service reputation protect=
ion.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Note that there is also the other TA deli=
very mode where a TA&#39;s binary is bundled inside an Untrusted Applicatio=
n as binary data. In this case, the binary isn&#39;t sent to TAM for distri=
bution.<br></div><div><br></div><div>There is also the other case: many SPs=
 / TA App Developers use the same extremely popular TAM service. Device man=
ufacturers may want to limit to accept only a set of TA providers by using =
the code signing CA trust list. The architecture allows such support with t=
he coding signing trust check in TEE.<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><div style=3D=
"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor blue;border-style:none=
 none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0i=
n 4pt"><p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u></span></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">If we indeed believe the text in Section 9.1=
 is correct then that code signing CA cert also needs to be made available =
to the TEEP Broker and potentially even to the untrusted app.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">I don=E2=80=99t believe the text in=
 9.1 is correct.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0</p></div></div></div></blockquote><div>[MP] See above comm=
ent. <br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=
=3D"EN-US"><div><div style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor curren=
tcolor blue;border-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium me=
dium 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><p><u></u></p>
<p>[TR] You may want to raise an issue in github to correct the text.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">s)I have seen several malicious apps in App =
store in both Android and iOS, it is possible for an malicious App develope=
r to publish both malicious untrusted applications
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0and malicious trusted appl=
ications.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t think the TEEP architecture prevents this attac=
k and it is the responsibility of TAM and App store to remove such apps
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0(see <a href=3D"http=
s://clicktime.symantec.com/3WoTUQiqn8S8EL5UYFU7jhw7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnam=
06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fandroid-=
developers.googleblog.com%252F2018%252F01%252Fhow-we-fought-bad-apps-and-ma=
licious.html%26data%3D02%257C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cbcf3b2c5f=
95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%257C0%25=
7C637139861908969481%26sdata%3DgNv0t73IFUqZmdnXjWmpb9bAyoYGfczM6oRe66Qlaog%=
253D%26reserved%3D0" target=3D"_blank">
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2018/01/how-we-fought-bad-apps-an=
d-malicious.html</a>)
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">[Hannes] Yes, it would be the responsibility=
 of the TAM, the device manufacturer and the SP / developer to ensure that =
they do not distribute malicious TAs.<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">It=E2=80=99s the responsibility of =
the TAM to not install malicious trusted apps, only authorized ones.<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80=99s =
correct to say it=E2=80=99s the responsibility of the TAM to =E2=80=9Cremov=
e=E2=80=9D malicious trusted apps, since it shouldn=E2=80=99t have installe=
d it in the first place.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">The only case where =E2=80=9Cremova=
l=E2=80=9D might make sense is if the TAM previously authorized a trusted a=
pp, and later changed its policy that such TA is no longer authorized (e.g.=
, because it was determined to be buggy
 or malicious or whatever else).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>[TR] You may want to discuss the above case in the document.=C2=A0 If th=
e trusted app is removed by TAM because it is malicious, some notification =
to the user would be helpful to remove the associated untrusted application=
 in the REE.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0</p></div></div></div></blockquote><div>[MP] Good suggestio=
n. We may touch on this point in Security Consideration section too.</div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><=
div style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor blue;borde=
r-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1.5pt;paddin=
g:0in 0in 0in 4pt"><p><u></u></p>
<p>-Tiru<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Ciao<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Hannes<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">-Tiru<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor blue;bord=
er-style:none none none solid;border-width:medium medium medium 1.5pt;paddi=
ng:0in 0in 0in 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;borde=
r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Thaler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dthal=
er@microsoft.com" target=3D"_blank">dthaler@microsoft.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 7, 2020 8:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:TirumaleswarRedd=
y_Konda@McAfee.com" target=3D"_blank">TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com</a=
>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:teep@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">teep@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<table style=3D"background:rgb(243,255,51) none repeat scroll 0% 0%;border:=
1.5pt solid rgb(155,154,135)" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D=
"1">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border:medium none;padding:0.75pt">
<p><b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-seri=
f;color:rgb(155,139,62)">CAUTION</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(155,139,62)">:</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:bla=
ck">
 External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recogniz=
e the sender and know the content is safe.</span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:center" align=3D"center">
<hr width=3D"100%" size=3D"2" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I opened one pull request for editorial issues<span =
style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"> (</span><a href=3D"https://clicktime.symant=
ec.com/351u59QLtaPT81TMTAvunqB7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fgithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252=
Farchitecture%252Fpull%252F109%26data%3D02%257C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft=
.com%257Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011d=
b47%257C1%257C0%257C637139861908969481%26sdata%3DS36SLw%252F2T7yK210awwzbpW=
TE0LAN9r1WFtkE5qG%252Bfl0%253D%26reserved%3D0" target=3D"_blank">https://gi=
thub.com/ietf-teep/architecture/pull/109</a><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,=
125)">),
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and filed seven other issues listed at <a href=3D"ht=
tps://clicktime.symantec.com/3TrjBmWdEfiS7oUVpmi3Wif7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fn=
am06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fgithub=
.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitecture%252Fissues%26data%3D02%257C01%257Cdthal=
er%2540microsoft.com%257Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C72f988bf86f14=
1af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%257C0%257C637139861908979441%26sdata%3D5aqxPRt0mi=
Ae5DsoenjkTn2qbJlVWTeciLtw9SBVn1E%253D%26reserved%3D0" target=3D"_blank">
https://github..com/ietf-teep/architecture/issues</a><span style=3D"color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">110) <a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/39cMD=
UsNGvSvaSRJP2CQiA57Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fgithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitectur=
e%252Fissues%252F110%26data%3D02%257C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cb=
cf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%=
257C0%257C637139861908979441%26sdata%3DKPNhnXV43eP8ZmdSqv3Vkbcj%252FPUlt5G3=
qYUgWPOBT%252F0%253D%26reserved%3D0" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Service Provider discussion is confusing</span></a><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">111) <a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3VAiu=
bTPBm8Nu7K6jeyK6yC7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fgithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitectur=
e%252Fissues%252F111%26data%3D02%257C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cb=
cf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%=
257C0%257C637139861908979441%26sdata%3DY%252FwhR2qzEc86xYboYueIlwI7jGUlIUnU=
p03qQ%252FclAMs%253D%26reserved%3D0" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Terminology section is not consistently ordered</spa=
n></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">112) <a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/35Jbt=
AkeyAguJKDDbAswm587Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fgithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitectur=
e%252Fissues%252F112%26data%3D02%257C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cb=
cf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%=
257C0%257C637139861908989393%26sdata%3DR1xs7Zt7GAt%252Bj0cv8rE273CmG4Y%252F=
PSQ5bB1SXVVjUS0%253D%26reserved%3D0" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Text about carriers is confusing</span></a><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">113) <a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3EXPN=
KjMEAd6Hx9XSx5RnEP7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fgithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitectur=
e%252Fissues%252F113%26data%3D02%257C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cb=
cf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%=
257C0%257C637139861908989393%26sdata%3DfYt0nEoCNSxthFVKq%252FmxutxQgpThx8L1=
Vn3h%252BxLhKxE%253D%26reserved%3D0" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Section 6.2.3 contradicts section 4.2</span></a><u><=
/u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">114) <a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3Pv5Z=
DeQraj9Kioz4xbxtPN7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fgithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitectur=
e%252Fissues%252F114%26data%3D02%257C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cb=
cf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%=
257C0%257C637139861908989393%26sdata%3Do%252F6RQy0IdDZQ1Z5wDYg5WVamJ31SS6JU=
zU8nCLB8ksk%253D%26reserved%3D0" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext=
;text-decoration:none">Figure 3 is too hard to understand</span></a><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">115) <a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/35d9o=
VECvbeBe1SvSPJ2Aix7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fgithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitectur=
e%252Fissues%252F115%26data%3D02%257C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cb=
cf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%=
257C0%257C637139861908999352%26sdata%3DxPDRcUGvaicejeAxxLOt5Cc%252BaFAEpe1X=
1XBnW8TOrY8%253D%26reserved%3D0" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(36,41,=
46);text-decoration:none">Reference to IANA number</span></a><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">116) <a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/39puL=
Gz66Tz8pqU7Trrs6Lk7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fgithub.com%252Fietf-teep%252Farchitectur=
e%252Fissues%252F116%26data%3D02%257C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cb=
cf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ece5%257C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%=
257C0%257C637139861908999352%26sdata%3DO8lfJd0TAW1aEU50xAO7U09PPsCtcrCCPBFN=
HlPC2pA%253D%26reserved%3D0" target=3D"_blank">
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif;color:rgb(36,41,=
46);text-decoration:none">Incorrect/obsolete statements about TEEP Broker</=
span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have ideas about how to address all of them, but i=
f others have comments, please speak up.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The possibly(?) contentious one might be that in #11=
0 I am proposing to use the term<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=E2=80=9CApp Developer=E2=80=9D throughout, instead =
of using =E2=80=9CService Provider=E2=80=9D in some places and =E2=80=9CApp=
 Developer=E2=80=9D in others<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">and then saying they=E2=80=99re synonymous like it d=
oes now.=C2=A0=C2=A0 (I=E2=80=99d be ok with mentioning that in some contex=
ts an App Developer<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">might be known as a =E2=80=9CService Provider=E2=80=
=9D if that is important to GlobalPlatform folks.)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dave<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;borde=
r-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> TEEP &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:teep-bounces=
@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">teep-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 23, 2019 4:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:teep@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">teep@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architec=
ture<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi all,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) fo=
r TEEP architecture.=C2=A0 The version to be reviewed is
<a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3J8myVCnpenkHpNeAegdSaG7Vc?u=3Dht=
tps%3A%2F%2Fnam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%25=
2F%252Ftools.ietf.org%252Fhtml%252Fdraft-ietf-teep-architecture-05%26data%3=
D02%257C01%257Cdthaler%2540microsoft.com%257Cbcf3b2c5f95b4c4c31fa08d79353ec=
e5%257C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%257C1%257C0%257C637139861909009306%=
26sdata%3DjkSiFYpG8FFVJUPk7nzK4VCH2j3im3RyFYtQj7ieHCw%253D%26reserved%3D0" =
target=3D"_blank">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-architecture-05</a> <u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 Ja=
nuary 2020.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please send your comments to the list before this da=
te and your assessment of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publicat=
ion.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tiru &amp; Nancy<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:&quot;Time=
s New Roman&quot;,serif">IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and a=
ny attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not =
the intended recipient, please notify the sender
 immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it f=
or any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
TEEP mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:TEEP@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">TEEP@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://clicktime.symantec.com/3E4xJQVFydcmnjgspEbLjV47Vc?u=3Dht=
tps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fteep" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://clicktime.symantec.com/3E4xJQVFydcmnjgspEbLjV47Vc?u=
=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fteep</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--0000000000005ff24e059beba7f3--


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From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>
To: Mingliang Pei <mingliang.pei@broadcom.com>
CC: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>, "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teep/MhL3Swv97jemrAj738nsjCG1YoA>
Subject: Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teep/toG0qPIwRihVJYpsqCqljyo_Bwc>
Subject: Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
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[...]

a) It is not clear from the Introduction how TEE is different from a Closed=
 OS like Google Chromebook or Windows 10S ?

[...]



[DT] The document (intentionally) makes no statement about whether a "close=
 OS" as you put it, is or is not a TEE.   The question is really about whet=
her such an OS prevents code injection attacks (e.g., due to buffer overrun=
s or whatever else), prevents data modification attacks, etc.



[TR] Closed OS prevent the above attacks, a malicious app cannot read/modif=
y the data of the other apps (e.g., ransomware attack is not possible, see =
https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/3438631?hl=3Den<https://nam06.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fsupport.google.com%2F=
chromebook%2Fanswer%2F3438631%3Fhl%3Den&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsof=
t.com%7C4a1e761bc5b7412883c508d794d8f70d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47=
%7C1%7C0%7C637141531903517840&sdata=3DAqPSd3PJDgbfJRXfJMRIg7EiK8GYWqGY3XNaF=
QJj5tQ%3D&reserved=3D0>).



That link contains insufficient information to say whether a ransomware att=
ack is possible, or whether the environment meets the other criteria of a T=
EE.  For example, the page mentions verified boot, which checks at boot tim=
e, but contains no statements about whether code modifications or additions=
 are prevented post-boot.   The Sandboxing section implies (especially the =
part about "app" in there) that code can be added after boot, without requi=
ring a security protocol equivalent to the TEEP protocol.  As such, I suspe=
ct it is inherently weaker than a TEE, and it would be an REE with classic =
security techniques.



It is not, however, the intent of this document to state whether such an OS=
 is, or is not, a TEE.   The intent is to state the criteria for what is a =
TEE, and then provide an architecture for provisioning one, in a way that i=
s sufficient for a reader to draw their own conclusions.



Dave

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:67.2pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">[&#8230;]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:62.4pt">a) It is not clear f=
rom the Introduction how TEE is different from a Closed OS like Google Chro=
mebook or Windows 10S ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:67.2pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">[&#8230;]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:26.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:26.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">[DT] The document (intentionally) makes no statement about whethe=
r a &#8220;close OS&#8221; as you put it, is or is not a TEE.&nbsp;&nbsp; T=
he question is really about whether such an OS prevents code
 injection attacks (e.g., due to buffer overruns or whatever else), prevent=
s data modification attacks, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:26.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:26.4pt">[TR] Closed OS preve=
nt the above attacks, a malicious app cannot read/modify the data of the ot=
her apps (e.g., ransomware attack is not possible, see
<a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fsupport.google.com%2Fchromebook%2Fanswer%2F3438631%3Fhl%3Den&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7C4a1e761bc5b7412883c508d794d8f70d%7C7=
2f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637141531903517840&amp;sdata=3DAq=
PSd3PJDgbfJRXfJMRIg7EiK8GYWqGY3XNaFQJj5tQ%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">
https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/3438631?hl=3Den</a>).&nbsp; <o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">That link contains =
insufficient information to say whether a ransomware attack is possible, or=
 whether the environment meets the other criteria of a TEE.&nbsp; For examp=
le, the page mentions verified boot, which
 checks at boot time, but contains no statements about whether code modific=
ations or additions are prevented post-boot.&nbsp;&nbsp; The Sandboxing sec=
tion implies (especially the part about &#8220;app&#8221; in there) that co=
de can be added after boot, without requiring a security
 protocol equivalent to the TEEP protocol.&nbsp; As such, I suspect it is i=
nherently weaker than a TEE, and it would be an REE with classic security t=
echniques.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It is not, however,=
 the intent of this document to state whether such an OS is, or is not, a T=
EE.&nbsp; &nbsp;The intent is to state the criteria for what is a TEE, and =
then provide an architecture for provisioning
 one, in a way that is sufficient for a reader to draw their own conclusion=
s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Dave<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>
To: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>, "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Teep] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture
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Hi Dave,

Please see inline [TR2]

From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 5:52 AM
To: Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>; Hannes =
Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com>; teep@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architecture


CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you =
recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

________________________________

[...]

a) It is not clear from the Introduction how TEE is different from a Closed=
 OS like Google Chromebook or Windows 10S ?

[...]



[DT] The document (intentionally) makes no statement about whether a "close=
 OS" as you put it, is or is not a TEE.   The question is really about whet=
her such an OS prevents code injection attacks (e.g., due to buffer overrun=
s or whatever else), prevents data modification attacks, etc.



[TR] Closed OS prevent the above attacks, a malicious app cannot read/modif=
y the data of the other apps (e.g., ransomware attack is not possible, see =
https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/3438631?hl=3Den<https://nam06.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fsupport.google.com%2F=
chromebook%2Fanswer%2F3438631%3Fhl%3Den&data=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsof=
t.com%7C4a1e761bc5b7412883c508d794d8f70d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47=
%7C1%7C0%7C637141531903517840&sdata=3DAqPSd3PJDgbfJRXfJMRIg7EiK8GYWqGY3XNaF=
QJj5tQ%3D&reserved=3D0>).



That link contains insufficient information to say whether a ransomware att=
ack is possible, or whether the environment meets the other criteria of a T=
EE.  For example, the page mentions verified boot, which checks at boot tim=
e, but contains no statements about whether code modifications or additions=
 are prevented post-boot.   The Sandboxing section implies (especially the =
part about "app" in there) that code can be added after boot, without requi=
ring a security protocol equivalent to the TEEP protocol.  As such, I suspe=
ct it is inherently weaker than a TEE, and it would be an REE with classic =
security techniques.



It is not, however, the intent of this document to state whether such an OS=
 is, or is not, a TEE.   The intent is to state the criteria for what is a =
TEE, and then provide an architecture for provisioning one, in a way that i=
s sufficient for a reader to draw their own conclusions.



[TR2] Got it, Thanks for the clarification. My other comment is regarding t=
he attacks discussed in first paragraph of Section 1. These attacks seem no=
t possible in closed OS. For example, sideloading of apps is not possible (=
unless developer mode is enabled), so installing apps from untrustworthy so=
urces is not applicable and data on which the applications are operating wi=
ll not be revealed to other apps because of sandboxing.



-Tiru



Dave

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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Dave,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please see inline [TR2] <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Dave Thaler &lt;dthaler@microsoft.com&g=
t; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 14, 2020 5:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy &lt;TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com=
&gt;; Hannes Tschofenig &lt;Hannes.Tschofenig@arm.com&gt;; teep@ietf.org<br=
>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-teep-architectur=
e<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"1" cellpadding=3D"0" style=3D"bac=
kground:#F3FF33;border:solid #9B9A87 1.5pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"border:none;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p><strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:#9=
B8B3E">CAUTION</span></strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#9B8B3E">:</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&qu=
ot;,sans-serif;color:black"> External email. Do not click links or open
 attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.<=
/span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:67.2pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">[&#8230;]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:62.4pt">a) It is not clear f=
rom the Introduction how TEE is different from a Closed OS like Google Chro=
mebook or Windows 10S ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:67.2pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">[&#8230;]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:26.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:26.4pt"><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D">[DT] The document (intentionally) makes no statement about whethe=
r a &#8220;close OS&#8221; as you put it, is or is not a TEE.&nbsp;&nbsp; T=
he question is really about whether such an OS prevents code
 injection attacks (e.g., due to buffer overruns or whatever else), prevent=
s data modification attacks, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:26.4pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:26.4pt">[TR] Closed OS preve=
nt the above attacks, a malicious app cannot read/modify the data of the ot=
her apps (e.g., ransomware attack is not possible, see
<a href=3D"https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2=
F%2Fsupport.google.com%2Fchromebook%2Fanswer%2F3438631%3Fhl%3Den&amp;data=
=3D02%7C01%7Cdthaler%40microsoft.com%7C4a1e761bc5b7412883c508d794d8f70d%7C7=
2f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637141531903517840&amp;sdata=3DAq=
PSd3PJDgbfJRXfJMRIg7EiK8GYWqGY3XNaFQJj5tQ%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">
https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/3438631?hl=3Den</a>).&nbsp; <o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">That link contains =
insufficient information to say whether a ransomware attack is possible, or=
 whether the environment meets the other criteria of a TEE.&nbsp; For examp=
le, the page mentions verified boot, which
 checks at boot time, but contains no statements about whether code modific=
ations or additions are prevented post-boot.&nbsp;&nbsp; The Sandboxing sec=
tion implies (especially the part about &#8220;app&#8221; in there) that co=
de can be added after boot, without requiring a security
 protocol equivalent to the TEEP protocol.&nbsp; As such, I suspect it is i=
nherently weaker than a TEE, and it would be an REE with classic security t=
echniques.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">It is not, however,=
 the intent of this document to state whether such an OS is, or is not, a T=
EE.&nbsp; &nbsp;The intent is to state the criteria for what is a TEE, and =
then provide an architecture for provisioning
 one, in a way that is sufficient for a reader to draw their own conclusion=
s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">[TR2] Got it, Thanks for the clarification. My ot=
her comment is regarding the attacks discussed in first paragraph of Sectio=
n 1. These attacks seem not possible in closed OS. For example, sideloading=
 of apps is not possible (unless developer
 mode is enabled), so installing apps from untrustworthy sources is not app=
licable and data on which the applications are operating will not be reveal=
ed to other apps because of sandboxing. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">-Tiru<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Dave<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Nicolae Paladi <n.paladi@gmail.com>
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Hi,

Opened issue #127 - The definition of "Untrusted Application" under =
Terminology does not read well.
Suggesting a minor edit (removing one word).

Currently:

Untrusted Application: An application running in a Rich Execution =
Environment, such as an Android, Windows, or iOS application.

As it reads now, the statement defines an untrusted application as an =
application that is running in a Rich Execution Environment (REE). The =
statement next provides examples of REEs - "Android", "Windows"; and =
continues with an example of an application "iOS application". This set =
of examples is inconsistent and hence confusing.

Suggested
Untrusted Application: An application running in a Rich Execution =
Environment, such as an Android, Windows, or iOS.


Best regards,

Nicolae


> On 23 Dec 2019, at 13:17, Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy =
<TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi all,
> =20
> This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) for TEEP =
architecture.  The version to be reviewed is =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-architecture-05 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-architecture-05>
> =20
> The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 January 2020.
> =20
> Please send your comments to the list before this date and your =
assessment of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publication.
> =20
> Regards,
> Tiru & Nancy
> _______________________________________________
> TEEP mailing list
> TEEP@ietf.org <mailto:TEEP@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teep =
<https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teep>

--Apple-Mail=_879A4765-F593-4BCD-9352-CD41093A8F7D
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><font=
 face=3D".SF NS Text" class=3D"">Hi,</font><div class=3D""><font =
face=3D".SF NS Text" class=3D""><br class=3D""></font></div><div =
class=3D""><font face=3D".SF NS Text" class=3D"">Opened issue #127 =
-&nbsp;<span style=3D"color: rgb(36, 41, 46); orphans: 2; widows: 2; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D"">The definition of =
"Untrusted Application" under Terminology does not read =
well.</span></font></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"orphans: 2; =
widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#24292e" face=3D".SF NS Text" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(36, 41, 46);" =
class=3D"">Suggesting</span>&nbsp;a minor edit (removing one =
word).</font></span></div><div class=3D""><span style=3D"orphans: 2; =
widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><font =
color=3D"#24292e" face=3D".SF NS Text" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></span></div><div class=3D""><p style=3D"box-sizing: =
border-box; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, 46); =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255); margin-top: 0px !important;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-weight: 600;" class=3D""><font face=3D".SF NS Text" =
class=3D"">Currently:</font></span></p><p style=3D"box-sizing: =
border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, =
46); font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><em style=3D"box-sizing:=
 border-box;" class=3D""><font face=3D".SF NS Text" class=3D"">Untrusted =
Application: An application running in a Rich Execution Environment, =
such as an Android, Windows, or iOS application.</font></em></p><p =
style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; =
color: rgb(36, 41, 46); font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; =
widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><font =
face=3D".SF NS Text" class=3D"">As it reads now, the statement defines =
an&nbsp;<span style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; font-weight: 600;" =
class=3D"">untrusted application</span>&nbsp;as an application that is =
running in a Rich Execution Environment (REE). The statement next =
provides examples of REEs - "<span style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; =
font-weight: 600;" class=3D"">Android</span>", "<span style=3D"box-sizing:=
 border-box; font-weight: 600;" class=3D"">Windows</span>"; and =
continues with an example of an application "<span style=3D"box-sizing: =
border-box; font-weight: 600;" class=3D"">iOS application</span>". This =
set of examples is inconsistent and hence confusing.</font></p><div =
style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; color: rgb(36, 41, =
46); font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; =
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); margin-bottom: 0px !important;" =
class=3D""><font face=3D".SF NS Text" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; font-weight: 600;" =
class=3D"">Suggested</span><br style=3D"box-sizing: border-box;" =
class=3D""><em style=3D"box-sizing: border-box;" class=3D"">Untrusted =
Application: An application running in a Rich Execution Environment, =
such as an Android, Windows, or iOS.</em></font></div></div><div =
class=3D""><p style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, 46); font-variant-ligatures: =
normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" =
class=3D""><font face=3D".SF NS Text" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></font></p><p style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: =
0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, 46); =
font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: =
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><font face=3D".SF NS Text" class=3D"">Best=
 regards,</font></p><div class=3D""><font face=3D".SF NS Text" =
class=3D"">Nicolae</font></div><p style=3D"box-sizing: border-box; =
margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, 46); =
font-family: -apple-system, system-ui, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Helvetica, =
Arial, sans-serif, &quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI =
Emoji&quot;; font-size: 14px; font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: =
2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></p><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On 23 Dec 2019, at 13:17, Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com" =
class=3D"">TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: CourierNewPSMT; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Hi =
all,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">This =
message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) for TEEP architecture. =
&nbsp;The version to be reviewed is<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-architecture-05" =
style=3D"color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-architecture-05</a>=
<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">The WGLC =
will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 January 2020.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">Please =
send your comments to the list before this date and your assessment of =
whether or not it is ready to proceed to publication.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" =
class=3D"">Regards,<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
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Thanks Nicolae, agreed your suggestion, Ming

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 5:15 AM Nicolae Paladi <n.paladi@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Opened issue #127 - The definition of "Untrusted Application" under
> Terminology does not read well.
> Suggesting a minor edit (removing one word).
>
> Currently:
>
> *Untrusted Application: An application running in a Rich Execution
> Environment, such as an Android, Windows, or iOS application.*
>
> As it reads now, the statement defines an untrusted application as an
> application that is running in a Rich Execution Environment (REE). The
> statement next provides examples of REEs - "Android", "Windows"; and
> continues with an example of an application "iOS application". This set
> of examples is inconsistent and hence confusing.
> Suggested
> *Untrusted Application: An application running in a Rich Execution
> Environment, such as an Android, Windows, or iOS.*
>
>
> Best regards,
> Nicolae
>
>
> On 23 Dec 2019, at 13:17, Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy <
> TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) for TEEP architecture.
> The version to be reviewed is
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teep-architecture-05
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3TQLbkkQueCxwGkB4jo52dg7Vc?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-teep-architecture-05>
>
> The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on 20 January 2020.
>
> Please send your comments to the list before this date and your assessment
> of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publication.
>
> Regards,
> Tiru & Nancy
> _______________________________________________
> TEEP mailing list
> TEEP@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teep
> <https://clicktime.symantec.com/3PMGCxha6jdmFEKy9YpKbdM7Vc?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fteep>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TEEP mailing list
> TEEP@ietf.org
>
> https://clicktime.symantec.com/3PMGCxha6jdmFEKy9YpKbdM7Vc?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fteep
>

--0000000000007d1756059c78e3cf
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Thanks Nicolae, agreed your suggestion, Ming<br></div><br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Ja=
n 16, 2020 at 5:15 AM Nicolae Paladi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:n.paladi@gmail.c=
om">n.paladi@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><font face=
=3D".SF NS Text">Hi,</font><div><font face=3D".SF NS Text"><br></font></div=
><div><font face=3D".SF NS Text">Opened issue #127 -=C2=A0<span style=3D"co=
lor:rgb(36,41,46);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">The definition of &quo=
t;Untrusted Application&quot; under Terminology does not read well.</span><=
/font></div><div><span style=3D"background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font fa=
ce=3D".SF NS Text" color=3D"#24292e"><span>Suggesting</span>=C2=A0a minor e=
dit (removing one word).</font></span></div><div><span style=3D"background-=
color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font face=3D".SF NS Text" color=3D"#24292e"><br></=
font></span></div><div><p style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;margin-bottom:16px=
;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-variant-ligatures:normal;background-color:rgb(255=
,255,255);margin-top:0px"><span style=3D"font-weight:600"><font face=3D".SF=
 NS Text">Currently:</font></span></p><p style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;mar=
gin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-variant-ligatures:n=
ormal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><em style=3D"box-sizing:border-box=
"><font face=3D".SF NS Text">Untrusted Application: An application running =
in a Rich Execution Environment, such as an Android, Windows, or iOS applic=
ation.</font></em></p><p style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;marg=
in-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-variant-ligatures:normal;background=
-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font face=3D".SF NS Text">As it reads now, the st=
atement defines an=C2=A0<span style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:60=
0">untrusted application</span>=C2=A0as an application that is running in a=
 Rich Execution Environment (REE). The statement next provides examples of =
REEs - &quot;<span style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:600">Android<=
/span>&quot;, &quot;<span style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:600">W=
indows</span>&quot;; and continues with an example of an application &quot;=
<span style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:600">iOS application</span=
>&quot;. This set of examples is inconsistent and hence confusing.</font></=
p><div style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;color:rgb(36,41,46);fo=
nt-variant-ligatures:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);margin-bottom=
:0px"><font face=3D".SF NS Text"><span style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;font-=
weight:600">Suggested</span><br style=3D"box-sizing:border-box"><em style=
=3D"box-sizing:border-box">Untrusted Application: An application running in=
 a Rich Execution Environment, such as an Android, Windows, or iOS.</em></f=
ont></div></div><div><p style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margi=
n-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-variant-ligatures:normal;background-=
color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font face=3D".SF NS Text"><br></font></p><p style=
=3D"box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41=
,46);font-variant-ligatures:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font=
 face=3D".SF NS Text">Best regards,</font></p><div><font face=3D".SF NS Tex=
t">Nicolae</font></div><p style=3D"box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0px;mar=
gin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(36,41,46);font-family:-apple-system,system-ui,&qu=
ot;Segoe UI&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,&quot;Apple Color Emoji&quot;,=
&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;;font-size:14px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;bac=
kground-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></p><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div=
>On 23 Dec 2019, at 13:17, Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com" target=3D"_blank">TirumaleswarReddy_Kon=
da@McAfee.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><div style=3D"font-family:Courie=
rNewPSMT;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-wei=
ght:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-tran=
sform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div s=
tyle=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-ser=
if">Hi all,<u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-s=
ize:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div><div sty=
le=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif=
">This message starts a Work Group Last Call (WGLC) for TEEP architecture.=
=C2=A0 The version to be reviewed is<span>=C2=A0</span><a href=3D"https://c=
licktime.symantec.com/3TQLbkkQueCxwGkB4jo52dg7Vc?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftools.ie=
tf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-teep-architecture-05" style=3D"color:rgb(149,79,=
114);text-decoration:underline" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-teep-architecture-05</a><u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"mar=
gin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;fon=
t-family:Calibri,sans-serif">The WGLC will last for 4 weeks and will end on=
 20 January 2020.<u></u><u></u></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;=
font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans=
-serif">Please send your comments to the list before this date and your ass=
essment of whether or not it is ready to proceed to publication.<u></u><u><=
/u></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:C=
alibri,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0=
.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Regards,<u></u><u></=
u></div><div style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Ca=
libri,sans-serif">Tiru &amp; Nancy<u></u><u></u></div></div><span style=3D"=
font-family:CourierNewPSMT;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-in=
dent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decor=
ation:none;float:none;display:inline">_____________________________________=
__________</span><br style=3D"font-family:CourierNewPSMT;font-size:12px;fon=
t-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:n=
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al;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><span style=3D"font-family:Courie=
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From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" <TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com>
To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>, "teep@ietf.org" <teep@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Teep] Trusted Execution Environment Provisioning (teep) WG Virtual Meeting: 2020-02-10
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The Trusted Execution Environment Provisioning (teep) Working Group will hold
a virtual interim meeting on 2020-02-10 from 10:00 to 11:00 America/New_York.


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