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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "huubatwork@gmail.com" <huubatwork@gmail.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain boundary
Thread-Index: AQHPlGMAPmdm9niSIEyuCBB+f0TZxZuKuO5Q
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 07:05:43 +0000
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References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B6A4@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <53B15EED.2020701@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain boundary
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi, Hub=
b:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">What we=
 like to see is transport independent multi-layer OAM can adopt IEEE802.1ag=
 CFM model and make CFM terminologies being used<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">not spe=
cific to a given transport technology, just like MPLS-TP.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Therefo=
re I am not sure we should reuse these CFM terminologies used in IEEE802.1a=
g and MPLS-TP or we should define TIME specific terminologies, e.g., T-MEP,=
 T-MIP.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">For you=
r comments, please see my reply inline.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regards=
!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext">=B7=A2=
=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext"> Time [m=
ailto:time-bounces@ietf.org]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:wi=
ndowtext">=B4=FA=B1=ED </span>
</b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5=
;color:windowtext">Huub van Helvoort<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:wi=
ndowtext">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;colo=
r:windowtext"> 2014</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-US">6</span>=D4=C2<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">30</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 20:58<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> time@ietf.org<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> Re: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain boundary<o:p></o:p></span></span></=
p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello Qin,<br>
<br>
You wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi, Greg:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks for your review to probl=
em statement draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf=
.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-01">http://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-01</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 4 gives an architecture=
 overview of management plane OAM,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">You comment on the following qu=
oted sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=A1=B0MEP is a maintenance func=
tional entity that is implemented into<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; network entity at =
the maintenance domain boundary&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoCommentText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">as =A1=B0Not necessarily, =
e.g. MEP at Level &lt; 7 in Ethernet Service OAM as CFM or Y.1731=A1=B1.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">Unfortunatel=
y MPLS-TP has only one MEL, fixed at &quot;7&quot;.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Qin]: I thought in MPLS-TP or IEEE 802.=
1ag, there are customer level(e.g.,MD7,6,5), service provider level(e.g.,MD=
4,3), operator level(e.g.MD2,1,0)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">What am I missing?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoCommentText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Are you saying MEP can be =
placed either at the maintenance domain boundary or within maintenance doma=
in?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">First of all=
 you have to correct the expansion of MEP and MIP:<br>
MEP =3D Maintenance entity End Point<br>
MIP =3D Maintenance entity Intermediate Point.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">MEPs and MIP=
s that belong to the same Maintenance Entity (ME) are not<br>
aware of any MEPs or MIPs outside the ME they belong to.<br>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Qin]: We are not sure we should reuse C=
FM terms or redefine CFM terms that are specific to TIME usage.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">So one question I like to ask here is:<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Is ME a MPLS-TP specific term? Or Is Mai=
ntenance entity End Point a MPLS-TP specific term?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">In the current draft, we haven=A1=AFt de=
fined Maintenance Entity yet, it looks a little confusing when we use Maint=
enance Entity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Since Maintenance Entity is not network =
entity or functional entity but a relationship between two Maintenance endp=
oints.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:#1F497D=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">So the second question is<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Is MIP part of ME if ME is defined as th=
e relationship between two MEPs?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">The third question is:<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">How Maintenance entity is different from=
 Maintenance Association?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:#1F497D=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">A Maintenanc=
e Entity can be any path, tunnel or section in the<br>
network.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=
=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:#1F497D">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">So it can exist between domain boundaries (NNIs) but also inside<br>
a domain, or across multiple domains (end-to-end ME).<br>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Qin]: You seems to answer my question a=
bove. Let me repeat what you said.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Are you saying MEP should still be locat=
ed at the edge of domain however ME can exist either at the edge of domain =
or
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Inside domain?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><br>
In section 4 I notice:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MEP is a maintenance functional enti=
ty that is implemented<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; into a Network Element either at the=
 maintenance domain boundary or<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; in the maintenance domain and can ge=
nerate, send and receive OAM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; packets.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">What is the difference between generate and send =
OAM packets?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Qin]: I think we can remove=
 =A1=B0generate=A1=B1 from the above sentence to avoid confusion.<o:p></o:p=
></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pr=
e>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MIP is a maintenance functional enti=
ty that is implemented<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; into a Network Element in the mainte=
nance domain and can forward OAM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; packets.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">A MIP can also respond to OAM messages sent by th=
e source MEP.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Qin]: Thanks for correction=
. Howe about the following change:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">NEW TEXT:<o:p></o:p></span><=
/pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=A1=B0<o:p></o:p></span></pr=
e>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MIP is a maintenance functional enti=
ty that is implemented<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; into a Network Element in the mainte=
nance domain and can forward OAM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; packets or respond only when trigger=
ed by a specific OAM function <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"text-indent:18.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">(e.g., Path Discover=
y or Connectivity Verification).<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></pr=
e>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; &nbsp;Either MEP or MIP may be at differen=
t layer and use various<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; different encapsulating protocols.<o=
:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">This is confusing, as I explained above.<o:p></o:=
p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">MEPs and MIPs can exist in different layers/techn=
ologies.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">However in the same layer ME MIPs cannot exist wi=
thout MEPs.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">MEPs and MIPs in the same ME in a layer are not a=
ware of <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">MEPs and MIPs other ME in the same layer, nor in =
other layers.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Qin]: Agree. I think we can=
 simply remove this confusing sentence or rephrase the above sentence as fo=
llows:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=A1=B0<o:p></o:p></span></pr=
e>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"margin-left:15.75pt;mso-para=
-margin-left:1.5gd;text-align:left">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;bac=
kground:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">MEPs or MIPs in the same domain but be=
long to different ME may be at different layer and use various<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;
<span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">different encapsulat=
ing protocols.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></pr=
e>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dos this make sense?<o:p></o=
:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pr=
e>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best regards, Huub.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">*************************************************=
****************<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>=C7=EB=BC=C7=D7=A1=A3=AC=C4=E3=CA=C7=
=B6=C0=D2=BB=CE=DE=B6=FE=B5=C4=A3=AC=BE=CD=CF=F1=C6=E4=CB=FB=C3=BF=D2=BB=B8=
=F6=C8=CB=D2=BB=D1=F9 <span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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Subject: Re: [Time] [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency
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Hello Greg,

I agree with you:
> I agree that agreeing on terminology is important, if not critical to in order to have productive discussion and to reach positive results.
> I think that "reachability" is "continuity", i.e. availability of a path between two end-points.
I always use this analogy:
Continuity means "a" wire is connected and current can flow.
> "Connectivity" does include "continuity" but as well, IMO, it monitors for unwarranted OAM packets either sent by unexpected source of addressed to other destination. "Connectivity", IMO, requires presence of "connection" defined between two end-points.
Connectivity means that the correct (color coded) wire is connected.
So Connectivity includes continuity.

Best regards, Huub.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Taylor [mailto:tom.taylor.stds@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 6:05 AM
> To: Qin Wu; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Cc: Gregory Mirsky
> Subject: Re: [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency
>
> I think one problem here is over-use of the word "connectivity". Aren't you really testing for reachability?
>
> Tom Taylor
>
> On 30/06/2014 3:39 AM, Qin Wu wrote:
>> Thanks for comments on the following proposed table or figure as follows:
>> Greg>MPLS-TP uses LSP ping or, though more rarely, ICMP as-is. In fact, MPLS-TP largely re-used all IP/MPLS OAM though adding some functionality, i.e. RDI, CV, and PCS.
>> Greg>Again, as in previous comment, MPLS-TP OAM does not present itself “different OAM technology”.
>>
>> [Qin]: You are right, I realized both LSP Ping and MPLS-OAM use MPLS technology while ICMP uses IP technology. I will fix this in the update.
>>
>> Greg>should add OWAMP and TWAMP for Performance Measurement in the
>> Greg>following table
>>
>> [Qin]: Agree.
>>
>> Greg>Echo(Ping) in fact belongs continuity check.
>>
>> [Qin]: Agree.
>>
>> Greg>Echo(Ping) does not provide CV as IP is connectionless and has no definition of Misconnection defect.
>>
>> [Qin]:Not sure about this. RFC7276 said LSP Ping is used for end-to-end
>>     Connectivity Verification between two LERs.
>> Therefore I think  IP Ping can also provide CV, what am I missing?
>>
>> Greg>Actually can be used for BW, Delay and Loss measurement, though very rough.
>>
>> [Qin]: Agree and will add this into the  following table.
>>
>> Greg>Not, BFD and BFD Echo do not provide CV for the same reason as for ICMP – do definition of Misconnection defect. Besides, BFD Echo doesn’t work for multi-hop case but only for single hop.
>>
>> [Qin]: Not sure about this. RFC7276 said SP Ping is used for end-to-end
>>     Connectivity Verification between two LERs.
>> Since BFD Echo is similar to LSP Ping, I think BFD Echo also can provide CV.
>>
>> Greg>LSP Ping provides Continuity Check too
>>
>> [Qin]: Agree.
>>
>> Greg>All MPLS-TP OAM applicable to IP/MPLS as well
>>
>> [Qin]: Agree.
>> Greg>MPLS-TP provides CC through use of BFD MPLS-TP provides CV
>> Greg>through use of BFD and extension  to provide Source ID.
>>
>> [Qin]: Besides using BFD, is there any other way to provide CC or CV?
>>
>>
>> 发件人: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 Qin Wu
>> 发送时间: 2014年6月25日 16:06
>> 收件人: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
>> 抄送: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
>> 主题: [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency
>>
>> Hi, Mohamed:
>> Thanks for details review to problem statement draft
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00
>> and update I sent to you.
>>
>> Regarding strong technology dependency issue, Section 4.2 gives an
>> address scheme  example to explain why the existing OAM mechanism has
>> strong Technology as follows:
>> “
>>
>> Addressing scheme is a good example for an issue
>>
>> that has a high price for being non-generic.  Ping of IPv4 and IPv6
>>
>> looks different in the addressing scheme as well in the ICMP
>>
>> indication field, but they have the same OAM functionalities.
>> ”
>> You asked to clarify the exact point of this paragraph.
>> I think what this paragraph said is
>> For IP ping, IPv4 Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol [RFC4443] use different IP technology but share the same OAM function.
>>
>> But I agree with you address scheme is not a typical example for strong technology dependency.
>> I think the typical example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are
>> using different network technology but share the same OAM
>> functionality, i.e., Path Discovery.  Another example is ICMP,BFD,LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology but share the same functionality, i.e., continuity check.
>>
>> The following figure shows common OAM functionalities shared by various existing OAM protocols.
>>      |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>>      |        |Continuity |  Connectivity|    Path      | Performance|
>>      |        |  Check    |  Verification|  Discovery   | Monitoring |
>>      +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>>      |        |           |              |              |            |
>>      | ICMP   |           |   Echo(Ping) |  Traceroute  |            |
>>      |        |           |              |              |            |
>>      +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>>      |        |           |              |              |            |
>>      | BFD    |  BFD      |   BFD Echo   |              |            |
>>      |        | Control   |              |              |            |
>>      +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>>      | LSP    |           |              |              | - Delay    |
>>      | Ping   |           |   Ping       |  Traceroute  | - Packet   |
>>      |        |           |              |              |    Loss    |
>>      +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>>      |        |           |              |              |            |
>>      | IPPM   |           |              |              |            |
>>      |        |           |              |              |            |
>>      |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>>      | MPLS-TP|           |              |              |            |
>>      | OAM    |  CC       |   CV         |  Traceroute  | -Delay     |
>>      |        |           |              |              | -Packet    |
>>      |        |           |              |              |   Loss     |
>>      +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>>
>> Hope this clarifies.
>>
>> Regards!
>> -Qin
>>
>> 发件人: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com<mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
>> [mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]
>> 发送时间: 2014年6月24日 22:13
>> 收件人: Qin Wu
>> 主题: RE: Unified oam BOF proposal request in IETF 90
>>
>> Hi Qin,
>>
>> Please find attached a first set of comments.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Med
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OPSAWG mailing list
>> OPSAWG@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsawg
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Time mailing list
> Time@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hello Qin,<br>
      <br>
      Indeed ITU-T worked together with IEEE on the CFM concept.<br>
      ITU-T has added/developed OAM tools for performance monitoring.<br>
      G.8013 (Ethernet OAM) and G.8113.1 (MPLS-TP OAM) are aligned.<br>
      <br>
      Bets regards, Huub.<br>
    </div>
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Hi,
            Hubb:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Thanks
            for your clarification.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">That
            is to say, In IETF MPLS-TP OAM tools, we can use BFD to
            provide CC and CV(See RFC6428) and use LSP ping to provide
            CV (See RFC6426).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">ITU-T
            MPLS-TP adopt IEEE802.1ag CFM conception and integrate
            Ethernet OAM tools, then within MPLS-TP, we can use CFM OAM
            tool to provide CC and CV.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><b><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:;
                  color:windowtext"><span lang="EN-US">:</span></span></b><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:;color:windowtext"
                lang="EN-US"> Time [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
              </span><b><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:;color:windowtext">
                   </span>
              </b><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:;color:windowtext"
                lang="EN-US">Huub van Helvoort<br>
              </span><b><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:;color:windowtext">
                  ʱ<span lang="EN-US">:</span></span></b><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:;color:windowtext"
                lang="EN-US"> 2014</span><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:;color:windowtext"><span
                  lang="EN-US">6</span><span lang="EN-US">30</span><span
                  lang="EN-US"> 20:40<br>
                </span><b>ռ<span lang="EN-US">:</span></b><span
                  lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:time@ietf.org">time@ietf.org</a><br>
                </span><b><span lang="EN-US">:</span></b><span
                  lang="EN-US"> Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Qin, </span><span
              style="font-family:">ã</span><span lang="EN-US"><br>
              <br>
              You wondered:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;[Qin]:
              Besides using BFD, is there any other way to provide CC or
              CV?</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </blockquote>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">Yes.
            Please read ITU-T recommendation G.8113.1 (MPLS-TP<br>
            OAM tools based on G.8013/Y.1731).<br>
            It describes the CCM OAM tool that provides CC and CV, it is
            in fact<br>
            the Ethernet CCM with an MPLS-TP header.<br>
            <br>
            (G.8113.2 describes MPLS-TP OAM tools based on BFD and
            LSP-ping).<br>
            <br>
            Best regards, Huub.<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;</span><b><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"><span
                lang="EN-US">:</span></span></b><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US"> OPSAWG
            [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
          </span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"> </span></b><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">Qin Wu<br>
          </span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">ʱ<span
                lang="EN-US">:</span></span></b><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US"> 2014</span><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"><span lang="EN-US">6</span><span
              lang="EN-US">25</span><span lang="EN-US"> 16:06<br>
            </span><b>ռ<span lang="EN-US">:</span></b><span
              lang="EN-US"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:time@ietf.org">
                time@ietf.org</a>; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">opsawg@ietf.org</a><br>
            </span><b><span lang="EN-US">:</span></b><span
              lang="EN-US"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">
                mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a><br>
            </span><b><span lang="EN-US">:</span></b><span
              lang="EN-US"> [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency</span></span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            lang="EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Hi,
            Mohamed:</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Thanks
            for details review to problem statement draft</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00</a></span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">and
            update I sent to you.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Regarding
            strong technology dependency issue,</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Section
            4.2 gives an address scheme&nbsp; example to explain why the
            existing OAM mechanism has strong</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Technology
            as follows:</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"></span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">Addressing scheme
            is a good example for an issue</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">that has a high
            price for being non-generic.&nbsp; Ping of IPv4 and IPv6</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">looks different in
            the addressing scheme as well in the ICMP</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier
            New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">indication field,
            but they have the same OAM functionalities.</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"></span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">You
            asked to clarify the exact point of this paragraph.</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">I
            think what this paragraph said is</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">For
            IP ping, IPv4 Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol
            [RFC4443] use different IP technology but share the same OAM
            function.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">But
            I agree with you address scheme is not a typical example for
            strong technology dependency.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">I
            think the typical example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM
            are using different network technology but share the same
            OAM</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">functionality,
            i.e., Path Discovery.&nbsp; Another example is ICMP,BFD,LSP Ping
            and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology but
            share</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">the
            same functionality, i.e., continuity check. &nbsp;</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">The
            following figure shows common OAM functionalities shared by
            various existing OAM protocols.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |Continuity |&nbsp; Connectivity|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Path&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |
            Performance|</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; Check&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; Verification|&nbsp; Discovery&nbsp;&nbsp; |
            Monitoring |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |
            ICMP&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Echo(Ping) |&nbsp; Traceroute&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;
            &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |
            BFD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; BFD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; BFD Echo&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |
            &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Control&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |
            LSP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | -
            Delay&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |
            Ping&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Ping&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp; Traceroute&nbsp; | -
            Packet&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
            Loss&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |
            IPPM&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |
            MPLS-TP|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
            &nbsp;&nbsp;|</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |
            OAM&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; CC&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; CV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; Traceroute&nbsp; |
            -Delay&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |
            -Packet&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;
            Loss&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Hope
            this clarifies.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Regards!</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">-Qin</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><b><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"><span
                    lang="EN-US">:</span></span></b><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>
                [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>]
                <br>
              </span><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:">
                  ʱ<span lang="EN-US">:</span></span></b><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">
                2014</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"><span
                  lang="EN-US">6</span><span lang="EN-US">24</span><span
                  lang="EN-US"> 22:13<br>
                </span><b>ռ<span lang="EN-US">:</span></b><span
                  lang="EN-US"> Qin Wu<br>
                </span><b><span lang="EN-US">:</span></b><span
                  lang="EN-US"> RE: Unified oam BOF proposal request in
                  IETF 90</span></span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            lang="EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
            ;color:#003300&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">Hi Qin,</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
            ;color:#003300&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
            ;color:#003300&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">Please
            find attached a first set of comments.</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
            ;color:#003300&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
            ;color:#003300&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">Cheers,</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New
            ;color:#003300&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;" lang="EN-US">Med</span><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US"><br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">Time mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Time@ietf.org">Time@ietf.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US"><br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">*****************************************************************<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>סǶһ޶ģÿһһ <span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
*****************************************************************
              סǶһ޶ģÿһһ </pre>
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Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2014 10:38:42 +0200
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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hello Qin,<br>
      <br>
      You replied:<br>
      <br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Hi,
            Hubb:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">What
            we like to see is transport independent multi-layer OAM can
            adopt IEEE802.1ag CFM model and make CFM terminologies being
            used</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    OK, good approach.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">not
            specific to a given transport technology, just like MPLS-TP.</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    The terms I used are not MPLS-TP specific, they apply to Ethernet
    too.<br>
    From a management point of view they are applicable to ATRM, SDH,
    OTN...<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Therefore
            I am not sure we should reuse these CFM terminologies used
            in IEEE802.1ag and MPLS-TP or we should define TIME specific
            terminologies, e.g., T-MEP, T-MIP.</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I would recommend not to introduce yet another terminology, but
    stick<br>
    to the CFM terminology you mention above.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">For
            your comments, please see my reply inline.</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I added some responses [Huub]<br>
    <br>
    Best regards, Huub.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p><br>
            </o:p><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><b><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:;
                  color:windowtext"><span lang="EN-US">:</span></span></b><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:;color:windowtext"
                lang="EN-US"> Time [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
              </span><b><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:;color:windowtext">
                   </span>
              </b><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:;color:windowtext"
                lang="EN-US">Huub van Helvoort<br>
              </span><b><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:;color:windowtext">
                  ʱ<span lang="EN-US">:</span></span></b><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:;color:windowtext"
                lang="EN-US"> 2014</span><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:;color:windowtext"><span
                  lang="EN-US">6</span><span lang="EN-US">30</span><span
                  lang="EN-US"> 20:58<br>
                </span><b>ռ<span lang="EN-US">:</span></b><span
                  lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:time@ietf.org">time@ietf.org</a><br>
                </span><b><span lang="EN-US">:</span></b><span
                  lang="EN-US"> Re: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain
                  boundary<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hello Qin,<br>
              <br>
              You wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi, Greg:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thanks for your review
              to problem statement draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoPlainText"><span lang="EN-US"><a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-01">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-01</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Section 4 gives an
              architecture overview of management plane OAM,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">You comment on the
              following quoted sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">MEP is a maintenance
              functional entity that is implemented into<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; network entity at
              the maintenance domain boundary&nbsp;
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoCommentText"><span lang="EN-US">as Not
              necessarily, e.g. MEP at Level &lt; 7 in Ethernet Service
              OAM as CFM or Y.1731.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </blockquote>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">Unfortunately
            MPLS-TP has only one MEL, fixed at "7".<br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">[Qin]: I thought in
            MPLS-TP or IEEE 802.1ag, there are customer
            level(e.g.,MD7,6,5), service provider level(e.g.,MD4,3),
            operator level(e.g.MD2,1,0)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">What am I missing?</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    [Huub] During the development of MPLS-TP OAM the IETF insisted on
    using only<br>
    one maintenance level (MEL) per maintenance entity (ME), and use TCM<br>
    to provide the required levels. Please read RFC6371.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoCommentText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>Are you
            saying MEP can be placed either at the maintenance domain
            boundary or within maintenance domain?</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    [Huub] According to 802.1ag a Maintenance Domain (MD) consists of
    one or more <br>
    Maintenance Associations (MA). An MA is the connection between two
    MEPs.<br>
    ITU-T uses Maintenance Entity Group (MEG) for MD and&nbsp; Maintenance
    Entity (ME)<br>
    for MA.<br>
    An MD can be (but not necessarily always is) an operator domain.<br>
    MA/ME can exist for customers (C-UNI to C-UNI), service providers
    (N-UNI to<br>
    N-UNI), carriers intra-domain(E-NNI to E-NNI), inter-domain (NNI to
    NNI).<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoCommentText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">First
            of all you have to correct the expansion of MEP and MIP:<br>
            MEP = Maintenance entity End Point<br>
            MIP = Maintenance entity Intermediate Point.</span><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">MEPs
            and MIPs that belong to the same Maintenance Entity (ME) are
            not<br>
            aware of any MEPs or MIPs outside the ME they belong to.<br>
            <br>
          </span><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">[Qin]: We are not sure we
            should reuse CFM terms or redefine CFM terms that are
            specific to TIME usage.</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    [Huub] I think you will create more confusion by introducing more
    terminology.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">So one question I like to
            ask here is:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Is ME a MPLS-TP specific
            term? Or Is Maintenance entity End Point a MPLS-TP specific
            term?</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    [Huub] No they are not. They are used for other technologies too.<br>
    There are already management models that use these terms.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">In the current draft, we
            havent defined Maintenance Entity yet, it looks a little
            confusing when we use Maintenance Entity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Since Maintenance Entity
            is not network entity or functional entity but a
            relationship between two Maintenance endpoints.</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    [Huub] It is the same as Maintenance Association, as explained
    above.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:;color:#1F497D"
          lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><span style="color:#1F497D"
          lang="EN-US">So the second question is<o:p></o:p></span>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Is MIP part of ME if ME
            is defined as the relationship between two MEPs?</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    [Huub] Yes.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><span
          style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">The third question is:<o:p></o:p></span>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">How Maintenance entity is
            different from Maintenance Association?</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    [Huub] It is the same&nbsp; ;-)<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">A
            Maintenance Entity can be any path, tunnel or section in the<br>
            network.</span><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US">
          </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"
            lang="EN-US">So it can exist between domain boundaries
            (NNIs) but also inside<br>
            a domain, or across multiple domains (end-to-end ME).<br>
            <br>
          </span><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">[Qin]: You seems to
            answer my question above. Let me repeat what you said.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Are you saying MEP should
            still be located at the edge of domain however ME can exist
            either at the edge of domain or
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Inside domain?</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    [Huub] A MEP is at the end of an ME/MA. A MEG/MD can contain one or
    more ME/MAs.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US"><br>
            In section 4 I notice:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MEP is a maintenance functional entity that is implemented<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; into a Network Element either at the maintenance domain boundary or<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; in the maintenance domain and can generate, send and receive OAM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; packets.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">What is the difference between generate and send OAM packets?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">[Qin]: I think we can remove generate from the above sentence to avoid confusion.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MIP is a maintenance functional entity that is implemented<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; into a Network Element in the maintenance domain and can forward OAM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; packets.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">A MIP can also respond to OAM messages sent by the source MEP.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">[Qin]: Thanks for correction. Howe about the following change:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">NEW TEXT:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MIP is a maintenance functional entity that is implemented<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; into a Network Element in the maintenance domain and can forward OAM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; packets or respond only when triggered by a specific OAM function <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre style="text-indent:18.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">(e.g., Path Discovery or Connectivity Verification).<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"></span></pre>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    [Huub] OK, this is better.<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
      type="cite">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <pre><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp; &nbsp;Either MEP or MIP may be at different layer and use various<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; different encapsulating protocols.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">This is confusing, as I explained above.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">MEPs and MIPs can exist in different layers/technologies.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">However in the same layer ME MIPs cannot exist without MEPs.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">MEPs and MIPs in the same ME in a layer are not aware of <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span lang="EN-US">MEPs and MIPs other ME in the same layer, nor in other layers.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">[Qin]: Agree. I think we can simply remove this confusing sentence or rephrase the above sentence as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="margin-left:15.75pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.5gd;text-align:left"
          align="left">
          <span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:;background:yellow;mso-
            highlight:yellow" lang="EN-US">MEPs or MIPs in the same
            domain but belong to different ME may be at different layer
            and use various<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;
            <span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">different
              encapsulating protocols.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <pre><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
        <pre><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Dos this make sense?</span></pre>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    [Huub] I think it does not. How about:<br>
    <p class="MsoNormal"
      style="margin-left:15.75pt;mso-para-margin-left:1.5gd;text-align:left"
      align="left">
      <span
        style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:;background:yellow;mso-
        highlight:yellow" lang="EN-US">MEPs and MIPs can exist in the
        same maintenance domain and belong to different MEs.<br>
        They can also exist at different layers and use various<o:p></o:p></span><span
        style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:" lang="EN-US"><span
          style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"> encapsulating
          protocols.</span></span><br>
      &nbsp;<br>
      <br>
    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
*****************************************************************
              סǶһ޶ģÿһһ </pre>
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Subject: Re: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain boundary
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Hi Huub,

Very very minor and common correction....

(2014/07/01 17:38), Huub van Helvoort wrote:
>
>> First of all you have to correct the expansion of MEP and MIP:
>> MEP = Maintenance entity End Point
>> MIP = Maintenance entity Intermediate Point.
>>
>>

If you are refering to ITU-T G.8013/Y.1731 (or RFC 6371), they are MEG (Maintenance Entity Group) End Point and Intermediate Point :-)

Thanks, Yuji


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Huub,<br>
      <br>
      Very very minor and common correction....<br>
      <br>
      (2014/07/01 17:38), Huub van Helvoort wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:53B27392.4000700@gmail.com" type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=ISO-2022-JP">
      <br>
      <blockquote
cite="mid:B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com"
        type="cite">
        <div class="WordSection1">
          <p class="MsoCommentText"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:$BAWBN(B" lang="EN-US">First
              of all you have to correct the expansion of MEP and MIP:<br>
              MEP = Maintenance entity End Point<br>
              MIP = Maintenance entity Intermediate Point.</span><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:$BAWBN(B;color:#1F497D"
              lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:left" align="left"><span
              style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
          <br>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    If you are refering to ITU-T G.8013/Y.1731 (or RFC 6371),&nbsp; they are
    MEG (Maintenance Entity Group) End Point and Intermediate Point :-)<br>
    <br>
    Thanks, Yuji<br>
    &nbsp;<br>
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "huubatwork@gmail.com" <huubatwork@gmail.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
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Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 11:02:51 +0000
Message-ID: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BFAD@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com>
References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845491A9@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330016F2E@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84573094@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933001D499@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845756DA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B68F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <53B15A8F.3080500@gmail.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BCA1@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <53B26192.2060707@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
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<body bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thank f=
or explanation on relation between G.8013 and IEEE 802.1ag CFM.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I see t=
he pictures how these ITU-T documents are related.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Most im=
portant G.8113.2 is defined by IETF based on IETF work (e.g.,RFC6426,RFC642=
8).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regards=
!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext">=B7=A2=
=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext"> Time [m=
ailto:time-bounces@ietf.org]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:wi=
ndowtext">=B4=FA=B1=ED </span>
</b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5=
;color:windowtext">Huub van Helvoort<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:wi=
ndowtext">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;colo=
r:windowtext"> 2014</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-US">7</span>=D4=C2<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">1</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 15:22<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> Qin Wu; time@ietf.org<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello Qin,<br>
<br>
Indeed ITU-T worked together with IEEE on the CFM concept.<br>
ITU-T has added/developed OAM tools for performance monitoring.<br>
G.8013 (Ethernet OAM) and G.8113.1 (MPLS-TP OAM) are aligned.<br>
<br>
Bets regards, Huub.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi, Hub=
b:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks =
for your clarification.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">That is=
 to say, In IETF MPLS-TP OAM tools, we can use BFD to provide CC and CV(See=
 RFC6428) and use LSP ping to provide CV (See RFC6426).</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">ITU-T M=
PLS-TP adopt IEEE802.1ag CFM conception and integrate Ethernet OAM tools, t=
hen within MPLS-TP, we can use CFM OAM tool to provide CC and CV.</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regards=
!</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Qin</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext">=B7=A2=
=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext"> Time [<=
a href=3D"mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:wi=
ndowtext">=B4=FA =B1=ED </span>
</b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5=
;color:windowtext">Huub van Helvoort<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:wi=
ndowtext">=B7=A2 =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;col=
or:windowtext"> 2014</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-US">6</span>=D4=C2<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">30</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 20:40<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">
time@ietf.org</a><br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Qin, </span><span style=3D"font=
-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=FA=BA=C3=A3=AC</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<br>
You wondered:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;[=
Qin]: Besides using BFD, is there any other way to provide CC or CV?</span>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">Yes. Please =
read ITU-T recommendation G.8113.1 (MPLS-TP<br>
OAM tools based on G.8013/Y.1731).<br>
It describes the CCM OAM tool that provides CC and CV, it is in fact<br>
the Ethernet CCM with an MPLS-TP header.<br>
<br>
(G.8113.2 describes MPLS-TP OAM tools based on BFD and LSP-ping).<br>
<br>
Best regards, Huub.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><b><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:<=
/span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:=CB=CE=CC=E5">
 OPSAWG [<a href=3D"mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:opsawg-bounces@i=
etf.org</a>]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B4=FA=
=B1=ED </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:=CB=CE=CC=E5">Qin Wu<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U=
S">6</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">25</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 16:06<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">
time@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">opsawg@ietf.org</a><b=
r>
</span><b>=B3=AD=CB=CD<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> <a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">
mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a><br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi, Moh=
amed:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks =
for details review to problem statement draft</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><a href=
=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00">http://t=
ools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00</a></span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">and upd=
ate I sent to you.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regardi=
ng strong technology dependency issue,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Section=
 4.2 gives an address scheme&nbsp; example to explain why the existing OAM =
mechanism has strong</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Technol=
ogy as follows:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">=A1=B0<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New , serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Addressing scheme is a good exa=
mple for an issue</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New , serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">that has a high price for being=
 non-generic.&nbsp; Ping of IPv4 and IPv6</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New , serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">looks different in the addressi=
ng scheme as well in the ICMP</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;C=
ourier New , serif&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">indication field, but they have=
 the same OAM functionalities.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">=A1=B1<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">You ask=
ed to clarify the exact point of this paragraph.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I think=
 what this paragraph said is</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">For IP =
ping, IPv4 Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol [RFC4443] use diff=
erent IP technology but share the same OAM function.</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">But I a=
gree with you address scheme is not a typical example for strong technology=
 dependency.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I think=
 the typical example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different =
network technology but share the same OAM</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">functio=
nality, i.e., Path Discovery.&nbsp; Another example is ICMP,BFD,LSP Ping an=
d MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology but share</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">the sam=
e functionality, i.e., continuity check. &nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">The fol=
lowing figure shows common OAM functionalities shared by various existing O=
AM protocols.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |--------&#43;-----------&#43;--------------&#43;--------------&#43;------=
------&#43;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |Continuity |&nbsp; Connectivi=
ty|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Path&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Performance|</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; Check&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp; Verification|&nbsp; Discovery&nbsp;&nbsp; | Monitoring |</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &#43;--------&#43;-----------&#43;--------------&#43;--------------&#43;--=
----------&#43;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 | ICMP&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Echo(Ping) |&nbsp; Traceroute&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &#43;--------&#43;-----------&#43;--------------&#43;--------------&#43;--=
----------&#43;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 | BFD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; BFD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&=
nbsp; BFD Echo&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Control&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &#43;--------&#43;-----------&#43;--------------&#43;--------------&#43;--=
----------&#43;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 | LSP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | - Delay&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 | Ping&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Ping&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp; Trace=
route&nbsp; | - Packet&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Loss&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &#43;--------&#43;-----------&#43;--------------&#43;--------------&#43;--=
----------&#43;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 | IPPM&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |--------&#43;-----------&#43;--------------&#43;--------------&#43;------=
------&#43;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 | MPLS-TP|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;=
|</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 | OAM&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; CC&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&n=
bsp;&nbsp; CV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; Trace=
route&nbsp; | -Delay&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | -Packet&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Loss&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 &#43;--------&#43;-----------&#43;--------------&#43;--------------&#43;--=
----------&#43;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hope th=
is clarifies.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regards=
!</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Qin</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span l=
ang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">
<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.co=
m</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mailto:mohamed.bouca=
dair@orange.com</a>]
<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD =CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-=
US">6</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">24</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 22:13<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> Qin Wu<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> RE: Unified oam BOF proposal request in IETF 90</span></span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Hi Qin,</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Please find attached a fi=
rst set of comments.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Cheers,</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Courier New&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">Med</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________________________<o=
:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">Time mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"mailto:Time@ietf.org">Time@ietf.org</a=
><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/=
time">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">*************************************************=
****************<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>=C7=EB=BC=C7=D7=A1=A3=AC=C4=E3=CA=C7=
=B6=C0=D2=BB=CE=DE=B6=FE=B5=C4=A3=AC=BE=CD=CF=F1=C6=E4=CB=FB=C3=BF=D2=BB=B8=
=F6=C8=CB=D2=BB=D1=F9 <span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">*************************************************=
****************<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>=C7=EB=BC=C7=D7=A1=A3=AC=C4=E3=CA=C7=
=B6=C0=D2=BB=CE=DE=B6=FE=B5=C4=A3=AC=BE=CD=CF=F1=C6=E4=CB=FB=C3=BF=D2=BB=B8=
=F6=C8=CB=D2=BB=D1=F9 <span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "huubatwork@gmail.com" <huubatwork@gmail.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain boundary
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Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 11:42:36 +0000
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<body bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi, Huu=
b:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks =
for your proposed changes and help address this issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I agree=
 sticking to the existing CFM terminologies will be a good choice.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Then we=
 can apply these terms to Ethernet, IP, SDH, OTN,ATM=A1=AD<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">And we =
can enhance CFM model if needed but try to reuse the existing terms defined=
 by CFM model.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regardi=
ng RFC6371, why the IETF insisted on using only<br>
one maintenance level (MEL) per maintenance entity (ME) in MPLS-TP OAM?<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Why mul=
tiple MELs per ME is not allowed? Do we need to relax this restriction defi=
ned by RFC6371?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">If I us=
es both Ethernet OAM and IP OAM in the same maintenance entity, do I need t=
o allow two MELs per ME?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Or the =
layer the OAM is applied has nothing to do with MEL?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regards=
!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext">=B7=A2=
=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext"> Time [m=
ailto:time-bounces@ietf.org]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:wi=
ndowtext">=B4=FA=B1=ED </span>
</b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5=
;color:windowtext">Huub van Helvoort<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:wi=
ndowtext">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;colo=
r:windowtext"> 2014</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-US">7</span>=D4=C2<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">1</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 16:39<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> Qin Wu; time@ietf.org<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> Re: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain boundary<o:p></o:p></span></span></=
p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello Qin,<br>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">You replied:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi, Hubb:</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">What we like to see is tra=
nsport independent multi-layer OAM can adopt IEEE802.1ag CFM model and make=
 CFM terminologies being used</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">OK, good approach.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">not specific to a given tr=
ansport technology, just like MPLS-TP.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">The terms I used are not MPLS-T=
P specific, they apply to Ethernet too.<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">From a manag=
ement point of view they are applicable to ATM, SDH, OTN...<br>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Therefore I am not sure we=
 should reuse these CFM terminologies used in IEEE802.1ag and MPLS-TP or we=
 should define TIME specific terminologies, e.g.,
 T-MEP, T-MIP.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">I would recommend not to introd=
uce yet another terminology, but stick<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">to the CFM t=
erminology you mention above.<br>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">For your comments, please =
see my reply inline.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">I added some responses [Huub]<b=
r>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&gt;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">Best regards=
, Huub.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><br>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext">=B7=A2=
=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext"> Time [<=
a href=3D"mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:wi=
ndowtext">=B4=FA =B1=ED </span>
</b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5=
;color:windowtext">Huub van Helvoort<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:wi=
ndowtext">=B7=A2 =CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;col=
or:windowtext"> 2014</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-US">6</span>=D4=C2<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">30</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 20:58<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">
time@ietf.org</a><br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> Re: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain boundary</span></span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello Qin,<br>
<br>
You wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi, Greg:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks for your review to probl=
em statement draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf=
.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-01">http://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-01</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Section 4 gives an architecture=
 overview of management plane OAM,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">You comment on the following qu=
oted sentence<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=A1=B0MEP is a maintenance func=
tional entity that is implemented into<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; network entity at =
the maintenance domain boundary&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=A1=B1<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoCommentText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">as =A1=B0Not necessarily, =
e.g. MEP at Level &lt; 7 in Ethernet Service OAM as CFM or Y.1731=A1=B1.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">Unfortunatel=
y MPLS-TP has only one MEL, fixed at &quot;7&quot;.<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Qin]: I thought in MPLS-TP or IEEE 802.=
1ag, there are customer level(e.g.,MD7,6,5), service provider level(e.g.,MD=
4,3), operator level(e.g.MD2,1,0)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">What am I missing?</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">[Huub] Durin=
g the development of MPLS-TP OAM the IETF insisted on using only<br>
one maintenance level (MEL) per maintenance entity (ME), and use TCM<br>
to provide the required levels. Please read RFC6371.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoCommentText"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;Are you saying MEP c=
an be placed either at the maintenance domain boundary or within maintenanc=
e domain?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">[Huub] Accor=
ding to 802.1ag a Maintenance Domain (MD) consists of one or more
<br>
Maintenance Associations (MA). An MA is the connection between two MEPs.<br=
>
ITU-T uses Maintenance Entity Group (MEG) for MD and&nbsp; Maintenance Enti=
ty (ME)<br>
for MA.<br>
An MD can be (but not necessarily always is) an operator domain.<br>
MA/ME can exist for customers (C-UNI to C-UNI), service providers (N-UNI to=
<br>
N-UNI), carriers intra-domain(E-NNI to E-NNI), inter-domain (NNI to NNI).<b=
r>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">First of all=
 you have to correct the expansion of MEP and MIP:<br>
MEP =3D Maintenance entity End Point<br>
MIP =3D Maintenance entity Intermediate Point.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">MEPs and MIP=
s that belong to the same Maintenance Entity (ME) are not<br>
aware of any MEPs or MIPs outside the ME they belong to.<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Qin]: We are not sure we should reuse C=
FM terms or redefine CFM terms that are specific to TIME usage.</span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">[Huub] I thi=
nk you will create more confusion by introducing more terminology.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Qin]: Okay.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">So one question I like to ask here is:</=
span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Is ME a MPLS-TP specific term? Or Is Mai=
ntenance entity End Point a MPLS-TP specific term?</span><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">[Huub] No th=
ey are not. They are used for other technologies too.<br>
There are already management models that use these terms.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">In the current draft, we haven=A1=AFt de=
fined Maintenance Entity yet, it looks a little confusing when we use Maint=
enance Entity</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Since Maintenance Entity is not network =
entity or functional entity but a relationship between two Maintenance endp=
oints.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">[Huub] It is=
 the same as Maintenance Association, as explained above.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:#1F497D=
">So the second question is</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:1=
2.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Is MIP part of ME if ME is defined as th=
e relationship between two MEPs?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">[Huub] Yes.<=
br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:#1F497D=
">The third question is:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">How Maintenance entity is different from=
 Maintenance Association?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">[Huub] It is=
 the same&nbsp; ;-)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">A Maintenanc=
e Entity can be any path, tunnel or section in the<br>
network.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=
=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:#1F497D">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">So it can exist between domain boundaries (NNIs) but also inside<br>
a domain, or across multiple domains (end-to-end ME).<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Qin]: You seems to answer my question a=
bove. Let me repeat what you said.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Are you saying MEP should still be locat=
ed at the edge of domain however ME can exist either at the edge of domain =
or
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Inside domain?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">[Huub] A MEP=
 is at the end of an ME/MA. A MEG/MD can contain one or more ME/MAs.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><br>
In section 4 I notice:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MEP is a maintenance functional enti=
ty that is implemented<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; into a Network Element either at the=
 maintenance domain boundary or<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; in the maintenance domain and can ge=
nerate, send and receive OAM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; packets.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">What is the difference between generate and send =
OAM packets?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Qin]: I think we can remove=
 =A1=B0generate=A1=B1 from the above sentence to avoid confusion.</span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MIP is a maintenance functional enti=
ty that is implemented<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; into a Network Element in the mainte=
nance domain and can forward OAM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; packets.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">A MIP can also respond to OAM messages sent by th=
e source MEP.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Qin]: Thanks for correction=
. Howe about the following change:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></=
span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">NEW TEXT:</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=A1=B0</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; MIP is a maintenance functional enti=
ty that is implemented<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; into a Network Element in the mainte=
nance domain and can forward OAM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; packets or respond only when trigger=
ed by a specific OAM function <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"text-indent:18.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">(e.g., Path Discover=
y or Connectivity Verification).<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=A1=B1</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">[Huub] OK, t=
his is better.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp; &nbsp;Either MEP or MIP may be at differen=
t layer and use various<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; different encapsulating protocols.<o=
:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">This is confusing, as I explained above.<o:p></o:=
p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">MEPs and MIPs can exist in different layers/techn=
ologies.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">However in the same layer ME MIPs cannot exist wi=
thout MEPs.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">MEPs and MIPs in the same ME in a layer are not a=
ware of <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">MEPs and MIPs other ME in the same layer, nor in =
other layers.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">[Qin]: Agree. I think we can=
 simply remove this confusing sentence or rephrase the above sentence as fo=
llows:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=A1=B0</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"margin-left:15.75pt;mso-para=
-margin-left:1.5gd;text-align:left">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;bac=
kground:yellow">MEPs or MIPs in the same domain but belong to different ME =
may be at different layer and use various</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">&nbsp;&nbsp;
<span style=3D"background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">different encapsulat=
ing protocols.</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">=A1=B1</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calib=
ri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Dos this make sense?</span><=
span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">[Huub] I thi=
nk it does not. How about:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margi=
n-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:15.75pt;mso-margin-top-alt:0cm=
;mso-para-margin-right:0cm;mso-para-margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-para-margin-le=
ft:1.5gd;text-align:left">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;bac=
kground:yellow">MEPs and MIPs can exist in the same maintenance domain and =
belong to different MEs.<br>
They can also exist at different layers and use various</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;background:yello=
w;mso-highlight:yellow"> encapsulating protocols.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
"><br>
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">-- <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">*************************************************=
****************<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>=C7=EB=BC=C7=D7=A1=A3=AC=C4=E3=CA=C7=
=B6=C0=D2=BB=CE=DE=B6=FE=B5=C4=A3=AC=BE=CD=CF=F1=C6=E4=CB=FB=C3=BF=D2=BB=B8=
=F6=C8=CB=D2=BB=D1=F9 <span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>, "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Strong Technology Dependency
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Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2014 09:26:04 +0900
From: Yuji Tochio <tochio@jp.fujitsu.com>
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To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B6A4@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <53B15EED.2020701@gmail.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <53B27392.4000700@gmail.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BFDF@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain boundary
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Hi Qin,

(2014/07/01 20:42), Qin Wu wrote:
>
> Regarding RFC6371, why the IETF insisted on using only
> one maintenance level (MEL) per maintenance entity (ME) in MPLS-TP OAM?
>
> Why multiple MELs per ME is not allowed? Do we need to relax this restriction defined by RFC6371?
>
> If I uses both Ethernet OAM and IP OAM in the same maintenance entity, do I need to allow two MELs per ME?
>
> Or the layer the OAM is applied has nothing to do with MEL?
>
>

The reason of single MEL per ME (LSP) can be found in RFC 5317 and RFC 5860.
The slidew 33 - 38 as attached to RFC 5317 will help you.
Note that MEL is considered for Ethernet OAM but not for MPLS(-TP).

And I recommend you should read draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm for your concern.

Regards, Yuji


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      <div class="WordSection1"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Regarding
            RFC6371, why the IETF insisted on using only<br>
            one maintenance level (MEL) per maintenance entity (ME) in
            MPLS-TP OAM?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Why
            multiple MELs per ME is not allowed? Do we need to relax
            this restriction defined by RFC6371?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">If
            I uses both Ethernet OAM and IP OAM in the same maintenance
            entity, do I need to allow two MELs per ME?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Or
            the layer the OAM is applied has nothing to do with MEL?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    The reason of single MEL per ME (LSP) can be found in RFC 5317 and
    RFC 5860.<br>
    The slidew 33 - 38 as attached to RFC 5317 will help you.<br>
    Note that MEL is considered for Ethernet OAM but not for MPLS(-TP).<br>
    <br>
    And I recommend you should read
    draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm for your concern.<br>
    <br>
    Regards, Yuji &nbsp; <br>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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From nobody Tue Jul  1 19:33:28 2014
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>, "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Strong Technology Dependency
Thread-Index: AQHPkExClaEuAYsfAkmaJiSeVAvEmZuIxghggAF5cuCAAFSaoIABTXhQgAA373A=
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 02:33:08 +0000
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References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845491A9@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330016F2E@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84573094@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933001D499@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845756DA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B68F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E4426@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BCE4@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E52E4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se>
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Subject: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>, "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Strong Technology Dependency
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--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E55DBeusaamb103erics_--


From nobody Tue Jul  1 19:54:02 2014
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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
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References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845491A9@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330016F2E@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84573094@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933001D499@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845756DA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B68F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E4426@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BCE4@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E52E4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C3FA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E55DB@eusaamb103.ericsson.se>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/lKgjmgyRbk9RVh4d01bib4HM0Nc
Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
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Greg and Qin,

Couldn=E2=80=99t follow the thread to its entirety due to various inline =
questions and responses.

Is the confusion due to lack of right term to define OAM function(s) OR =
the existing OAM functions defined are not sufficient enough?
I believe RFC7276 identified comprehensively. Do you think something =
missing?

-sam
On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:38 PM, Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> =
wrote:

> Hi Qin,
> if proactive continuity check viewed as not sufficient and there=E2=80=99=
s a requirement to do proactive connectivity verification. But that, =
IMO, will move us into more narrow segment of use cases, as we=E2=80=99ve =
learned from MPLS-TP. On-demand OAM tools would not require new =
definitions and can be usd for troubleshooting as-is, IMO.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 7:33 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Good point.
> So what you propose seems like we should integrate BFD with IP =
technology and accommodate the definitions (e.g., continuity defect, =
Misconnection Defect, defect entry , defect exit) used in RFC6428 which =
is earlier applied to MPLS-TP to IP encapsulation.
> Am my understanding correct?
> =20
> Regards!
> -Qin
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Gregory Mirsky =
[mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5 =
7:32
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> more in-lininess with the GIM2>> tag in dramatic red.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 8:40 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi, Greg:
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Gregory Mirsky =
[mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=881=E6=97=A5 =
6:33
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> thank you for kind consideration of my comments. Glad we=E2=80=99re =
agree on most so we can clip them and concentrate on few remaining.
> Please find my notes in-line and tagged GIM>> below.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 12:39 AM
> To: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Cc: Gregory Mirsky
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> [=E2=80=A6]
> =20
> Greg>Echo(Ping) does not provide CV as IP is connectionless and has no =
definition of Misconnection defect.
> =20
> [Qin]:Not sure about this. RFC7276 said LSP Ping is used for =
end-to-end
>   Connectivity Verification between two LERs.
> Therefore I think  IP Ping can also provide CV, what am I missing?
> GIM>> I think of CV as proactive OAM mechanism that detects particular =
defect and has clear definition of defect entry and defect exit =
criteria. LSP Ping verifies consistency between control and data plane. =
That, IMO, is close to CV but without definition of defect state is not =
the CV.
> =20
> [Qin]: Interesting point, maybe we can category CV into strict CV and =
loose CV. I think you are talking about strict CV.
> Alternatively, we may need a clear definition of CV that can be =
applied to any technologies, i.e., technology independent terminology.
> =20
> GIM2>> I think of them more from on-demand vs. proactive OAM tools =
POV. The latter is, IMO, defect detecting tool while the former is =
useful for troubleshooting, mostly.
> =20
> [...]
> =20
> Greg>Not, BFD and BFD Echo do not provide CV for the same reason as =
for ICMP =E2=80=93 do definition of Misconnection defect. Besides, BFD =
Echo doesn=E2=80=99t work for multi-hop case but only for single hop.
> =20
> [Qin]: Not sure about this. RFC7276 said SP Ping is used for =
end-to-end
>   Connectivity Verification between two LERs.
> Since BFD Echo is similar to LSP Ping, I think BFD Echo also can =
provide CV.
> GIM>> Unlike LSP Ping BFD does not verify consistency of data plane =
vs. control plane. BFD could and may be used as CV if it would be =
accompanied with definition of Misconnection Defect, its Entry and Exit =
conditions and how the defect gets signaled, i.e. through Diag field. So =
far applicability of the code for Mis-connectivity defect, defined in =
RFC 6428, not been discussed in IP or IP/MPLS networks but only in =
MPLS-TP domains.
> =20
> [Qin]: So your point is the current BFD only can integrated into =
MPLS-TP to provide CV, am I right?
> What about RFC5885 =E2=80=9CBidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) =
for the Pseudowire Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV)=E2=80=9D=
, can I understand it as BFD being integrated with PW to provide CV?
> =20
> GIM2>> Not only in context of MPLS-TP. In fact, BFD does ensures, as =
Huub illustrated, that the right colored wire is plugged in. But except =
for MPLS-TP mis-connectivity is not being treated as a defect. the =
missing part =E2=80=93 definition of mis-connectivity defect entry and =
exit conditions in case of IP encapsulation of BFD control packet. =
Perhaps for RFCs 5881, 5883, 5884 definition given in RFC 6428 may be =
used as foundation but must be adopted to IP encapsulation. As for =
choice of terms, =E2=80=9Cconnectivity verification=E2=80=9D vs. =
=E2=80=9Ccontinuity check=E2=80=9D,  in RFC 5885 it may be debatable =
whether it is CV, considering possible use of ICMP and/or LSP ping, or =
only CC.
> =20
> [=E2=80=A6]
> =20
> Greg>MPLS-TP provides CC through use of BFD
> Greg>MPLS-TP provides CV through use of BFD and extension  to provide =
Source ID.
> =20
> [Qin]: Besides using BFD, is there any other way to provide CC or CV?
> GIM>> I think of CV as optional mode that may be realized with the =
help of CC mechanism. Thus, in addition to Loss of Continuity defect, =
there must be definition of Mis-connection defect. It could be BFD, =
CCM/ETH-CC or else (though not sure whether there=E2=80=99s anything =
=E2=80=9Celse=E2=80=9D).
> =20
> [Qin] Yes, CC and CV can be complementary. We need to generalize these =
terms and apply them to various technologies.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] =
=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Qin Wu
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8825=E6=97=A5=
 16:06
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi, Mohamed:
> Thanks for details review to problem statement draft
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00
> and update I sent to you.
> =20
> Regarding strong technology dependency issue,
> Section 4.2 gives an address scheme  example to explain why the =
existing OAM mechanism has strong
> Technology as follows:
> =E2=80=9C
> Addressing scheme is a good example for an issue
> that has a high price for being non-generic.  Ping of IPv4 and IPv6
> looks different in the addressing scheme as well in the ICMP
> indication field, but they have the same OAM functionalities.
> =E2=80=9D
> You asked to clarify the exact point of this paragraph.
> I think what this paragraph said is
> For IP ping, IPv4 Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol =
[RFC4443] use different IP technology but share the same OAM function.
> =20
> But I agree with you address scheme is not a typical example for =
strong technology dependency.
> I think the typical example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are =
using different network technology but share the same OAM
> functionality, i.e., Path Discovery.  Another example is ICMP,BFD,LSP =
Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology but share
> the same functionality, i.e., continuity check. =20
> =20
> The following figure shows common OAM functionalities shared by =
various existing OAM protocols.
>    |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |Continuity |  Connectivity|    Path      | Performance|
>    |        |  Check    |  Verification|  Discovery   | Monitoring |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | ICMP   |           |   Echo(Ping) |  Traceroute  |            |
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | BFD    |  BFD      |   BFD Echo   |              |            |
>    |        | Control   |              |              |            |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    | LSP    |           |              |              | - Delay    |
>    | Ping   |           |   Ping       |  Traceroute  | - Packet   |
>    |        |           |              |              |    Loss    |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | IPPM   |           |              |              |            |
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    | MPLS-TP|           |              |              |            |
>    | OAM    |  CC       |   CV         |  Traceroute  | -Delay     |
>    |        |           |              |              | -Packet    |
>    |        |           |              |              |   Loss     |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
> =20
> Hope this clarifies.
> =20
> Regards!
> -Qin
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
[mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5=
 22:13
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Unified oam BOF proposal request in IETF 90
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> =20
> Please find attached a first set of comments.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> _______________________________________________
> Time mailing list
> Time@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time


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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Greg =
and Qin,<div><br></div><div>Couldn=E2=80=99t follow the thread to its =
entirety due to various inline questions and =
responses.</div><div><br></div><div>Is the confusion due to lack of =
right term to define OAM function(s) OR the existing OAM functions =
defined are not sufficient enough?</div><div>I believe RFC7276 =
identified comprehensively. Do you think something =
missing?</div><div><br></div><div>-sam</div><div><div><div>On Jul 1, =
2014, at 7:38 PM, Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com">gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</a=
>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Hi Qin,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">if proactive continuity check viewed as not sufficient and =
there=E2=80=99s a requirement to do proactive connectivity verification. =
But that, IMO, will move us into more narrow segment of use cases, as =
we=E2=80=99ve learned from MPLS-TP. On-demand OAM tools would not =
require new definitions and can be usd for troubleshooting as-is, =
IMO.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Greg<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: solid none =
none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Qin Wu [<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, July 01, 2014 7:33 =
PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory=
 Mirsky; <a href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">time@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">opsawg@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><spa=
n class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong Technology =
Dependency<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Good =
point.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So what you =
propose seems like we should integrate BFD with IP technology and =
accommodate the definitions (e.g.,</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, =
176, 80);">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">continuity defect, Misconnection Defect, defect entry , defect =
exit) used in RFC6428 which is earlier applied to MPLS-TP to IP =
encapsulation.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Am my =
understanding correct?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory Mirsky [<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: =
underline;">mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span>:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>2014<span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=B9=B4</span>7<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=9C=88</span>2<spa=
n lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=97=A5</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>7:32<br><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span>:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Qin Wu;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">time@ietf.org</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">opsawg@ietf.org</a><br><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span>:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong Technology =
Dependency<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span>&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Hi Qin,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">more in-lininess with the GIM2&gt;&gt; tag in dramatic =
red.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Greg<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: solid none =
none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Qin Wu [<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, June 30, 2014 8:40 =
PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory=
 Mirsky;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">time@ietf.org</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">opsawg@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong Technology =
Dependency<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span>&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi, =
Greg:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: solid none =
none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory Mirsky [<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: =
underline;">mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span>:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>2014<span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=B9=B4</span>7<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=9C=88</span>1<spa=
n lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=97=A5</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>6:33<br><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span>:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Qin Wu;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">time@ietf.org</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">opsawg@ietf.org</a><br><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span>:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong Technology =
Dependency<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span>&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Hi Qin,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">thank you for kind consideration of my comments. Glad we=E2=80=99re=
 agree on most so we can clip them and concentrate on few =
remaining.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Please find my notes in-line and tagged GIM&gt;&gt; =
below.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Greg<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: solid none =
none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Qin Wu [<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, June 30, 2014 12:39 =
AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">time@ietf.org</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">opsawg@ietf.org</a><br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory =
Mirsky<br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong Technology =
Dependency<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span>&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">[=E2=80=A6]<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Greg&gt;Echo(Ping) =
does not provide CV as IP is connectionless and has no definition of =
Misconnection defect.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin]:Not sure =
about this. RFC7276 said LSP Ping is used for =
end-to-end<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp; =
Connectivity Verification between two LERs.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);">Therefore I think &nbsp;IP Ping can also provide CV, what am =
I missing?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 80);">GIM&gt;&gt; I think =
of CV as proactive OAM mechanism that detects particular defect and has =
clear definition of defect entry and defect exit criteria. LSP Ping =
verifies consistency between control and data plane. That, IMO, is close =
to CV but without definition of defect state is not the =
CV.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin]: Interesting =
point, maybe we can category CV into strict CV and loose CV. I think you =
are talking about strict CV.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Alternatively, we may need a clear definition of CV that can be =
applied to any technologies, i.e., technology independent =
terminology.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: red;">GIM2&gt;&gt; I =
think of them more from on-demand vs. proactive OAM tools POV. The =
latter is, IMO, defect detecting tool while the former is useful for =
troubleshooting, mostly.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">[...]<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Greg&gt;Not, BFD =
and BFD Echo do not provide CV for the same reason as for ICMP =E2=80=93 =
do definition of Misconnection defect. Besides, BFD Echo doesn=E2=80=99t =
work for multi-hop case but only for single =
hop.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin]: Not sure =
about this. RFC7276 said SP Ping is used for =
end-to-end<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp; =
Connectivity Verification between two LERs.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);">Since BFD Echo is similar to LSP Ping, I think BFD Echo also =
can provide CV.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 176, 80);">GIM&gt;&gt; Unlike =
LSP Ping BFD does not verify consistency of data plane vs. control =
plane. BFD could and may be used as CV if it would be accompanied with =
definition of Misconnection Defect, its Entry and Exit conditions and =
how the defect gets signaled, i.e. through Diag field. So far =
applicability of the code for Mis-connectivity defect, defined in RFC =
6428, not been discussed in IP or IP/MPLS networks but only in MPLS-TP =
domains.</span><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin]: So your =
point is the current BFD only can integrated into MPLS-TP to provide CV, =
am I right?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">What about RFC5885 =
=E2=80=9CBidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) for the Pseudowire =
Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV)=E2=80=9D, can I =
understand it as BFD being integrated with PW to provide =
CV?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: red;">GIM2&gt;&gt; =
Not only in context of MPLS-TP. In fact, BFD does ensures, as Huub =
illustrated, that the right colored wire is plugged in. But except for =
MPLS-TP mis-connectivity is not being treated as a defect. the missing =
part =E2=80=93 definition of mis-connectivity defect entry and exit =
conditions in case of IP encapsulation of BFD control packet. Perhaps =
for RFCs 5881, 5883, 5884 definition given in RFC 6428 may be used as =
foundation but must be adopted to IP encapsulation. As for choice of =
terms, =E2=80=9Cconnectivity verification=E2=80=9D vs. =E2=80=9Ccontinuity=
 check=E2=80=9D, &nbsp;in RFC 5885 it may be debatable whether it is CV, =
considering possible use of ICMP and/or LSP ping, or only =
CC.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">[=E2=80=A6]<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Greg&gt;MPLS-TP =
provides CC through use of BFD<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);">Greg&gt;MPLS-TP provides CV through use of BFD and =
extension&nbsp; to provide Source ID.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin]: Besides =
using BFD, is there any other way to provide CC or =
CV?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">GIM&gt;&gt; I =
think of CV as optional mode that may be realized with the help of CC =
mechanism. Thus, in addition to Loss of Continuity defect, there must be =
definition of Mis-connection defect. It could be BFD, CCM/ETH-CC or else =
(though not sure whether there=E2=80=99s anything =
=E2=80=9Celse=E2=80=9D).<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin] Yes, CC and =
CV can be complementary. We need to generalize these terms and apply =
them to various technologies.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Greg<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: solid none =
none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>OPSAWG [<a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;">mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b>Qin =
Wu<br><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span>:=
</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>2014<span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=B9=B4</span>6<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=9C=88</span>25<sp=
an lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=97=A5</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>16:06<br><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span>:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">time@ietf.org</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">opsawg@ietf.org</a><br><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81</span>:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: =
underline;">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a><br><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span>:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[OPSAWG] Strong Technology =
Dependency<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span>&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi, =
Mohamed:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks for details =
review to problem statement draft<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);"><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00<=
/a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">and update I sent =
to you.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regarding strong =
technology dependency issue,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Section =
4.2 gives an address scheme&nbsp; example to explain why the existing =
OAM mechanism has strong<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Technology as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">=E2=80=9C<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: 'Courier New';">Addressing =
scheme is a good example for an issue<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: =
'Courier New';">that has a high price for being non-generic.&nbsp; Ping =
of IPv4 and IPv6<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: 'Courier New';">looks different =
in the addressing scheme as well in the ICMP<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: =
'Courier New';">indication field, but they have the same OAM =
functionalities.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You asked to =
clarify the exact point of this paragraph.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);">I think what this paragraph said =
is<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">For IP ping, IPv4 =
Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol [RFC4443] use different IP =
technology but share the same OAM function.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">But I agree with =
you address scheme is not a typical example for strong technology =
dependency.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I think the =
typical example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different =
network technology but share the same OAM<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);">functionality, i.e., Path Discovery.&nbsp; Another example is =
ICMP,BFD,LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology =
but share<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">the same =
functionality, i.e., continuity check. =
&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The following =
figure shows common OAM functionalities shared by various existing OAM =
protocols.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+<o:p></o:=
p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |Continuity |&nbsp; =
Connectivity|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Path&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | =
Performance|<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp; Check&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; Verification|&nbsp; =
Discovery&nbsp;&nbsp; | Monitoring |<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+<o:p></o:=
p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; | ICMP&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp; Echo(Ping) |&nbsp; Traceroute&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+<o:p></o:=
p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; | BFD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
BFD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; BFD Echo&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; | =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></=
o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: =
left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Control&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+<o:p></o:=
p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; | =
LSP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; | - Delay&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; | Ping&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp; Ping&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp; =
Traceroute&nbsp; | - Packet&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Loss&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+<o:p></o:=
p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; | IPPM&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+<o:p></o:=
p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; =
font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; | =
MPLS-TP|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; | OAM&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
CC&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; =
CV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
Traceroute&nbsp; | -Delay&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; | -Packet&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Loss&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+<o:p></o:=
p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: =
justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);">Hope this clarifies.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, =
73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: solid none =
none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; =
padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[<a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: =
underline;">mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span>:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>2014<span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E5=B9=B4</span>6<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=9C=88</span>24<sp=
an lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=97=A5</span><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>22:13<br><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span>:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Qin Wu<br><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span>:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Unified oam BOF =
proposal request in IETF 90<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: left; font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span>&nbsp;</span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">Hi =
Qin,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">Please find attached a first set of =
comments.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; text-align: justify; font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, =
0);">Med<o:p></o:p></span></div></div>____________________________________=
___________<br>Time mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Time@ietf.org">Time@ietf.org</a><br>https://www.ietf.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/time</div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>, Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
Thread-Topic: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
Thread-Index: AQHPkExClaEuAYsfAkmaJiSeVAvEmZuIxghggAF5cuCAAFSaoIABTXhQgAA373CAAAJR4P//fy4AgACIjQA=
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 03:09:00 +0000
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References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845491A9@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330016F2E@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84573094@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933001D499@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845756DA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B68F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E4426@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BCE4@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E52E4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C3FA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E55DB@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <772B4CEA-8B89-4F65-A33C-74F755412073@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
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--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C44Bnkgeml501mbschi_--


From nobody Tue Jul  1 20:15:03 2014
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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C44B@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 20:14:50 -0700
Message-Id: <3C7BBD97-DED8-4835-B0C2-B4EE8FDB8969@gmail.com>
References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845491A9@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330016F2E@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84573094@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933001D499@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845756DA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B68F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E4426@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BCE4@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E52E4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C3FA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E55DB@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <772B4CEA-8B89-4F65-A33C-74F755412073@gmail.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C44B@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com>
To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
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Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/Hyv96V5vGkHaLeAc5TEjVapmDMQ
Cc: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
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Hi Qin,

thanks for the reply
On Jul 1, 2014, at 8:09 PM, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> wrote:

> Hi, Sam:
> I think the open issue here is the definition of CC and CV in the =
RFC7276 is not consistent with what Greg see CC and CV(I potential agree =
with his observation,J).
> e.g., the definition of CC and CV doesn=E2=80=99t consider =
misconnection defect or defect entry and exit criteria?
> Therefore when we talk about whether BFC support CC or CV or whether =
IP Ping or LSP ping support CC or CV,
> The answer become fuzzy? Do we need to tweak RFC7276 or do we need to =
stick the definition of RFC7276?
Establishing definition is important before discussing what each of =
different tools could do.
If RFC7276 doesn=E2=80=99t define correctly, then right thing to do is =
get it fixed.
But if you want to define altogether a new term, then it is fine, but I =
am not a big fan of that.

cheers
-sam
> =20
> Regards!
> -Qin
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Time [mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org] =
=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Sam Aldrin
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5 =
10:54
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Gregory Mirsky
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: opsawg@ietf.org; time@ietf.org; Qin Wu
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Greg and Qin,
> =20
> Couldn=E2=80=99t follow the thread to its entirety due to various =
inline questions and responses.
> =20
> Is the confusion due to lack of right term to define OAM function(s) =
OR the existing OAM functions defined are not sufficient enough?
> I believe RFC7276 identified comprehensively. Do you think something =
missing?
> =20
> -sam
> On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:38 PM, Gregory Mirsky =
<gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Hi Qin,
> if proactive continuity check viewed as not sufficient and there=E2=80=99=
s a requirement to do proactive connectivity verification. But that, =
IMO, will move us into more narrow segment of use cases, as we=E2=80=99ve =
learned from MPLS-TP. On-demand OAM tools would not require new =
definitions and can be usd for troubleshooting as-is, IMO.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 7:33 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Good point.
> So what you propose seems like we should integrate BFD with IP =
technology and accommodate the definitions (e.g., continuity defect, =
Misconnection Defect, defect entry , defect exit) used in RFC6428 which =
is earlier applied to MPLS-TP to IP encapsulation.
> Am my understanding correct?
> =20
> Regards!
> -Qin
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Gregory Mirsky =
[mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5 =
7:32
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> more in-lininess with the GIM2>> tag in dramatic red.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 8:40 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi, Greg:
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Gregory Mirsky =
[mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=881=E6=97=A5 =
6:33
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> thank you for kind consideration of my comments. Glad we=E2=80=99re =
agree on most so we can clip them and concentrate on few remaining.
> Please find my notes in-line and tagged GIM>> below.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 12:39 AM
> To: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Cc: Gregory Mirsky
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> [=E2=80=A6]
> =20
> Greg>Echo(Ping) does not provide CV as IP is connectionless and has no =
definition of Misconnection defect.
> =20
> [Qin]:Not sure about this. RFC7276 said LSP Ping is used for =
end-to-end
>   Connectivity Verification between two LERs.
> Therefore I think  IP Ping can also provide CV, what am I missing?
> GIM>> I think of CV as proactive OAM mechanism that detects particular =
defect and has clear definition of defect entry and defect exit =
criteria. LSP Ping verifies consistency between control and data plane. =
That, IMO, is close to CV but without definition of defect state is not =
the CV.
> =20
> [Qin]: Interesting point, maybe we can category CV into strict CV and =
loose CV. I think you are talking about strict CV.
> Alternatively, we may need a clear definition of CV that can be =
applied to any technologies, i.e., technology independent terminology.
> =20
> GIM2>> I think of them more from on-demand vs. proactive OAM tools =
POV. The latter is, IMO, defect detecting tool while the former is =
useful for troubleshooting, mostly.
> =20
> [...]
> =20
> Greg>Not, BFD and BFD Echo do not provide CV for the same reason as =
for ICMP =E2=80=93 do definition of Misconnection defect. Besides, BFD =
Echo doesn=E2=80=99t work for multi-hop case but only for single hop.
> =20
> [Qin]: Not sure about this. RFC7276 said SP Ping is used for =
end-to-end
>   Connectivity Verification between two LERs.
> Since BFD Echo is similar to LSP Ping, I think BFD Echo also can =
provide CV.
> GIM>> Unlike LSP Ping BFD does not verify consistency of data plane =
vs. control plane. BFD could and may be used as CV if it would be =
accompanied with definition of Misconnection Defect, its Entry and Exit =
conditions and how the defect gets signaled, i.e. through Diag field. So =
far applicability of the code for Mis-connectivity defect, defined in =
RFC 6428, not been discussed in IP or IP/MPLS networks but only in =
MPLS-TP domains.
> =20
> [Qin]: So your point is the current BFD only can integrated into =
MPLS-TP to provide CV, am I right?
> What about RFC5885 =E2=80=9CBidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) =
for the Pseudowire Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV)=E2=80=9D=
, can I understand it as BFD being integrated with PW to provide CV?
> =20
> GIM2>> Not only in context of MPLS-TP. In fact, BFD does ensures, as =
Huub illustrated, that the right colored wire is plugged in. But except =
for MPLS-TP mis-connectivity is not being treated as a defect. the =
missing part =E2=80=93 definition of mis-connectivity defect entry and =
exit conditions in case of IP encapsulation of BFD control packet. =
Perhaps for RFCs 5881, 5883, 5884 definition given in RFC 6428 may be =
used as foundation but must be adopted to IP encapsulation. As for =
choice of terms, =E2=80=9Cconnectivity verification=E2=80=9D vs. =
=E2=80=9Ccontinuity check=E2=80=9D,  in RFC 5885 it may be debatable =
whether it is CV, considering possible use of ICMP and/or LSP ping, or =
only CC.
> =20
> [=E2=80=A6]
> =20
> Greg>MPLS-TP provides CC through use of BFD
> Greg>MPLS-TP provides CV through use of BFD and extension  to provide =
Source ID.
> =20
> [Qin]: Besides using BFD, is there any other way to provide CC or CV?
> GIM>> I think of CV as optional mode that may be realized with the =
help of CC mechanism. Thus, in addition to Loss of Continuity defect, =
there must be definition of Mis-connection defect. It could be BFD, =
CCM/ETH-CC or else (though not sure whether there=E2=80=99s anything =
=E2=80=9Celse=E2=80=9D).
> =20
> [Qin] Yes, CC and CV can be complementary. We need to generalize these =
terms and apply them to various technologies.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] =
=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Qin Wu
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8825=E6=97=A5=
 16:06
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi, Mohamed:
> Thanks for details review to problem statement draft
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00
> and update I sent to you.
> =20
> Regarding strong technology dependency issue,
> Section 4.2 gives an address scheme  example to explain why the =
existing OAM mechanism has strong
> Technology as follows:
> =E2=80=9C
> Addressing scheme is a good example for an issue
> that has a high price for being non-generic.  Ping of IPv4 and IPv6
> looks different in the addressing scheme as well in the ICMP
> indication field, but they have the same OAM functionalities.
> =E2=80=9D
> You asked to clarify the exact point of this paragraph.
> I think what this paragraph said is
> For IP ping, IPv4 Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol =
[RFC4443] use different IP technology but share the same OAM function.
> =20
> But I agree with you address scheme is not a typical example for =
strong technology dependency.
> I think the typical example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are =
using different network technology but share the same OAM
> functionality, i.e., Path Discovery.  Another example is ICMP,BFD,LSP =
Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology but share
> the same functionality, i.e., continuity check. =20
> =20
> The following figure shows common OAM functionalities shared by =
various existing OAM protocols.
>    |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |Continuity |  Connectivity|    Path      | Performance|
>    |        |  Check    |  Verification|  Discovery   | Monitoring |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | ICMP   |           |   Echo(Ping) |  Traceroute  |            |
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | BFD    |  BFD      |   BFD Echo   |              |            |
>    |        | Control   |              |              |            |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    | LSP    |           |              |              | - Delay    |
>    | Ping   |           |   Ping       |  Traceroute  | - Packet   |
>    |        |           |              |              |    Loss    |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | IPPM   |           |              |              |            |
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    | MPLS-TP|           |              |              |            |
>    | OAM    |  CC       |   CV         |  Traceroute  | -Delay     |
>    |        |           |              |              | -Packet    |
>    |        |           |              |              |   Loss     |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
> =20
> Hope this clarifies.
> =20
> Regards!
> -Qin
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
[mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5=
 22:13
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Unified oam BOF proposal request in IETF 90
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> =20
> Please find attached a first set of comments.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> _______________________________________________
> Time mailing list
> Time@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><div><br></div>Hi Qin,<div><br></div><div>thanks for =
the reply<br><div><div>On Jul 1, 2014, at 8:09 PM, Qin Wu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com">bill.wu@huawei.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi, Sam:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I think the open issue here is the =
definition of CC and CV in the RFC7276 is not consistent with what Greg =
see CC and CV(I potential agree with his observation,</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Wingdings; =
color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">J</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">).<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">e.g., the definition of CC and CV doesn=E2=80=99t =
consider misconnection defect or defect entry and exit =
criteria?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">Therefore when we talk about whether BFC support CC =
or CV or whether IP Ping or LSP ping support CC or =
CV,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">The answer become fuzzy? Do we need to tweak RFC7276 =
or do we need to stick the definition of =
RFC7276?</span></div></div></div></blockquote>Establishing definition is =
important before discussing what each of different tools could =
do.</div><div>If RFC7276 doesn=E2=80=99t define correctly, then right =
thing to do is get it fixed.</div><div>But if you want to define =
altogether a new term, then it is fine, but I am not a big fan of =
that.</div><div><br></div><div>cheers</div><div>-sam</div><div><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt;"><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Time [<a =
href=3D"mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<sp=
an class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Sam Aldrin<br></span><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>2014</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=B9=B4<span lang=3D"EN-US">7</span>=E6=9C=88=
<span lang=3D"EN-US">2</span>=E6=97=A5<span lang=3D"EN-US"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>10:54<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=
=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span=
 class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory =
Mirsky<br></span><b>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">opsawg@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">time@ietf.org</a>; Qin =
Wu<br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: =
[Time] Strong Technology =
Dependency<o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Greg and Qin,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Couldn=E2=80=99t follow the thread to its entirety due to =
various inline questions and =
responses.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">Is the confusion due to lack of right term to define OAM =
function(s) OR the existing OAM functions defined are not sufficient =
enough?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I believe RFC7276 identified comprehensively. Do you =
think something missing?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">-sam<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:38 PM, =
Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; =
text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi =
Qin,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; =
text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">if proactive =
continuity check viewed as not sufficient and there=E2=80=99s a =
requirement to do proactive connectivity verification. But that, IMO, =
will move us into more narrow segment of use cases, as we=E2=80=99ve =
learned from MPLS-TP. On-demand OAM tools would not require new =
definitions and can be usd for troubleshooting as-is, IMO.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">Qin Wu [<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, July 01, 2014 7:33 =
PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory=
 Mirsky;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">time@ietf.org</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">opsawg@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong Technology =
Dependency</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Good point.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So what you propose seems =
like we should integrate BFD with IP technology and accommodate the =
definitions (e.g.,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 176, =
80);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">continuity =
defect, Misconnection Defect, defect entry , defect exit) used in =
RFC6428 which is earlier applied to MPLS-TP to IP =
encapsulation.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Am =
my understanding correct?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Regards!</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">-Qin</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">Gregory Mirsky [<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color:=
 purple;">mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br></span><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">2014</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">7</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3D"EN-US">2</span>=E6=97=A5<spa=
n class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">7:32<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">Qin Wu;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">RE: Strong =
Technology Dependency</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Qin,</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">more in-lininess with the =
GIM2&gt;&gt; tag in dramatic red.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">Qin Wu [<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, June 30, 2014 8:40 =
PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory=
 Mirsky;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong Technology =
Dependency</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi, Greg:</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">Gregory Mirsky [<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color:=
 purple;">mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br></span><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">2014</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">7</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3D"EN-US">1</span>=E6=97=A5<spa=
n class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">6:33<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">Qin Wu;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">RE: Strong =
Technology Dependency</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Qin,</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">thank you for kind =
consideration of my comments. Glad we=E2=80=99re agree on most so we can =
clip them and concentrate on few remaining.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Please find my notes =
in-line and tagged GIM&gt;&gt; below.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">Qin Wu [<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, June 30, 2014 12:39 =
AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory =
Mirsky<br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong Technology =
Dependency</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[=E2=80=A6]</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Greg&gt;Echo(Ping) does =
not provide CV as IP is connectionless and has no definition of =
Misconnection defect.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">[Qin]:Not sure about this. RFC7276 said LSP Ping is used for =
end-to-end</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp; Connectivity Verification between two LERs.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Therefore I think =
&nbsp;IP Ping can also provide CV, what am I missing?</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 176, 80);">GIM&gt;&gt; I think of CV =
as proactive OAM mechanism that detects particular defect and has clear =
definition of defect entry and defect exit criteria. LSP Ping verifies =
consistency between control and data plane. That, IMO, is close to CV =
but without definition of defect state is not the CV.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin]: Interesting point, =
maybe we can category CV into strict CV and loose CV. I think you are =
talking about strict CV.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Alternatively, we may need a clear definition of CV that can be =
applied to any technologies, i.e., technology independent =
terminology.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: red;">GIM2&gt;&gt; I =
think of them more from on-demand vs. proactive OAM tools POV. The =
latter is, IMO, defect detecting tool while the former is useful for =
troubleshooting, mostly.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">[...]</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Greg&gt;Not, BFD and BFD Echo do not provide CV for the same =
reason as for ICMP =E2=80=93 do definition of Misconnection defect. =
Besides, BFD Echo doesn=E2=80=99t work for multi-hop case but only for =
single hop.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">[Qin]: Not sure about this. RFC7276 said SP Ping is used for =
end-to-end</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp; Connectivity Verification between two LERs.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Since BFD Echo is similar =
to LSP Ping, I think BFD Echo also can provide CV.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 176, 80);">GIM&gt;&gt; Unlike LSP =
Ping BFD does not verify consistency of data plane vs. control plane. =
BFD could and may be used as CV if it would be accompanied with =
definition of Misconnection Defect, its Entry and Exit conditions and =
how the defect gets signaled, i.e. through Diag field. So far =
applicability of the code for Mis-connectivity defect, defined in RFC =
6428, not been discussed in IP or IP/MPLS networks but only in MPLS-TP =
domains.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">[Qin]: So your point is the current BFD only can integrated into =
MPLS-TP to provide CV, am I right?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">What about RFC5885 =
=E2=80=9CBidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) for the Pseudowire =
Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV)=E2=80=9D, can I =
understand it as BFD being integrated with PW to provide CV?</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: red;">GIM2&gt;&gt; Not only in context of =
MPLS-TP. In fact, BFD does ensures, as Huub illustrated, that the right =
colored wire is plugged in. But except for MPLS-TP mis-connectivity is =
not being treated as a defect. the missing part =E2=80=93 definition of =
mis-connectivity defect entry and exit conditions in case of IP =
encapsulation of BFD control packet. Perhaps for RFCs 5881, 5883, 5884 =
definition given in RFC 6428 may be used as foundation but must be =
adopted to IP encapsulation. As for choice of terms, =E2=80=9Cconnectivity=
 verification=E2=80=9D vs. =E2=80=9Ccontinuity check=E2=80=9D, &nbsp;in =
RFC 5885 it may be debatable whether it is CV, considering possible use =
of ICMP and/or LSP ping, or only CC.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[=E2=80=A6]</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Greg&gt;MPLS-TP provides =
CC through use of BFD</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Greg&gt;MPLS-TP provides CV through use of BFD and =
extension&nbsp; to provide Source ID.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin]: Besides using BFD, =
is there any other way to provide CC or CV?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">GIM&gt;&gt; I think of CV =
as optional mode that may be realized with the help of CC mechanism. =
Thus, in addition to Loss of Continuity defect, there must be definition =
of Mis-connection defect. It could be BFD, CCM/ETH-CC or else (though =
not sure whether there=E2=80=99s anything =E2=80=9Celse=E2=80=9D).</span><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin] Yes, CC and CV can =
be complementary. We need to generalize these terms and apply them to =
various technologies.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">OPSAWG [<a href=3D"mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Qin Wu<br></span><b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">2014</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">6</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3D"EN-US">25</span>=E6=97=A5<sp=
an class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">16:06<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br></span><b>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a><br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=
=A2=98<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">[OPSAWG] Strong =
Technology Dependency</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi, Mohamed:</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks for details review =
to problem statement draft</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color:=
 =
purple;">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00</sp=
an></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">and =
update I sent to you.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Regarding strong technology dependency issue,</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Section 4.2 gives an =
address scheme&nbsp; example to explain why the existing OAM mechanism =
has strong</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Technology as follows:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';">Addressing scheme is a good example for an =
issue</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">that has a high price for being =
non-generic.&nbsp; Ping of IPv4 and IPv6</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';">looks different in the addressing scheme as well in the =
ICMP</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; =
text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New';">indication field, but they have the same =
OAM functionalities.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You =
asked to clarify the exact point of this paragraph.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I think what this =
paragraph said is</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">For =
IP ping, IPv4 Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol [RFC4443] =
use different IP technology but share the same OAM function.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">But I agree with you =
address scheme is not a typical example for strong technology =
dependency.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I =
think the typical example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using =
different network technology but share the same OAM</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">functionality, i.e., Path =
Discovery.&nbsp; Another example is ICMP,BFD,LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM =
are using different network technology but share</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">the same functionality, =
i.e., continuity check. &nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The following figure =
shows common OAM functionalities shared by various existing OAM =
protocols.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|Continuity |&nbsp; Connectivity|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Path&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Performance|</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp; Check&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; Verification|&nbsp; =
Discovery&nbsp;&nbsp; | Monitoring |</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; | ICMP&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp; Echo(Ping) |&nbsp; Traceroute&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; | BFD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
BFD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; BFD Echo&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; | =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|</span>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
| Control&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; | LSP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; | - Delay&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; | Ping&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp; Ping&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp; =
Traceroute&nbsp; | - Packet&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Loss&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; | IPPM&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; | =
MPLS-TP|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;|</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; | =
OAM&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; CC&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp; CV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
Traceroute&nbsp; | -Delay&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; | -Packet&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Loss&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><s=
pan lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hope this =
clarifies.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Regards!</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">-Qin</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;"><a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[<a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br></span><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">2014</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">6</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3D"EN-US">24</span>=E6=97=A5<sp=
an class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">22:13<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">Qin =
Wu<br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">RE: Unified oam =
BOF proposal request in IETF 90</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">Hi Qin,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">Please find attached a first set =
of comments.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, =
0);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, =
0);">Cheers,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">Med</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;">_______________________________________________<br>Time =
mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:Time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;">Time@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time</a></span></div></d=
iv></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_C203FD5F-3CF0-4E2E-BC0F-723A1CBFEB08--


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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: Yuji Tochio <tochio@jp.fujitsu.com>
Thread-Topic: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain boundary
Thread-Index: AQHPlGMAPmdm9niSIEyuCBB+f0TZxZuKuO5Q//+n6QCAALNHcIAAVWoAgACzyVA=
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 03:19:40 +0000
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References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B6A4@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <53B15EED.2020701@gmail.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <53B27392.4000700@gmail.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BFDF@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <53B3519C.50403@jp.fujitsu.com>
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Subject: Re: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain boundary
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi, Yuj=
i:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks =
for pointing me to the relevant references. I will read.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I see h=
ow MEL is used in slide 36 associated with RFC5317.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">It look=
s MEL is used to identify which part of network the fault happens, e.g.,<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">MEL x: =
Carrier1;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">MEL y: =
Carrier1, Region 1;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">MEL z: =
Carrier1, Region 2;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regardi=
ng you are saying =A1=B0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;MS PGothic&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">MEL is consid=
ered for Ethernet OAM but not for MPLS(-TP)</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;MS PGothic&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;">=A1=B1</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I am a =
little bit consumed, Isn=A1=AFt Ethernet OAM has already been integrated in=
to MPLS-TP?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">What am=
 I missing?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regards=
!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext">=B7=A2=
=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext"> Yuji To=
chio [mailto:tochio@jp.fujitsu.com]
<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;color:wi=
ndowtext">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><=
span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;colo=
r:windowtext"> 2014</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5;color:windowtext">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-US">7</span>=D4=C2<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">2</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 8:26<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> Qin Wu<br>
</span><b>=B3=AD=CB=CD<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> time@ietf.org<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> Re: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain boundary<o:p></o:p></span></span></=
p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Qin,<br>
<br>
(2014/07/01 20:42), Qin Wu wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regardi=
ng RFC6371, why the IETF insisted on using only<br>
one maintenance level (MEL) per maintenance entity (ME) in MPLS-TP OAM?</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Why mul=
tiple MELs per ME is not allowed? Do we need to relax this restriction defi=
ned by RFC6371?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">If I us=
es both Ethernet OAM and IP OAM in the same maintenance entity, do I need t=
o allow two MELs per ME?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Or the =
layer the OAM is applied has nothing to do with MEL?</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;MS PGothic&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-al=
ign:left"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
MS PGothic&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
The reason of single MEL per ME (LSP) can be found in RFC 5317 and RFC 5860=
.<br>
The slidew 33 - 38 as attached to RFC 5317 will help you.<br>
Note that MEL is considered for Ethernet OAM but not for MPLS(-TP).<br>
<br>
And I recommend you should read draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm for=
 your concern.<br>
<br>
Regards, Yuji &nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
Thread-Index: AQHPkExClaEuAYsfAkmaJiSeVAvEmZuIxghggAF5cuCAAFSaoIABTXhQgAA373CAAAJR4P//fy4AgACIjQD//31WAIAAiTtg
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 03:29:30 +0000
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Cc: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C48F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 20:33:05 -0700
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References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845491A9@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330016F2E@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84573094@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933001D499@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845756DA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B68F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E4426@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BCE4@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E52E4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C3FA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E55DB@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <772B4CEA-8B89-4F65-A33C-74F755412073@gmail.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C44B@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <3C7BBD97-DED8-4835-B0C2-B4EE8FDB8969@gmail.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C48F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com>
To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
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Cc: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
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Hi Qin,

RFC 7276 Sec 5.2, Table 4 does the same. :D

-sam
On Jul 1, 2014, at 8:29 PM, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> wrote:

> Sam:
> This issue is related to figure 1 we gave in the section 3.2 of =
draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-01(http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-ops=
awg-multi-layer-oam-01).
> We need to figure out whether the figure 1 needs to be updated given =
the definition of CC and CV.
> =20
> Regards!
> -Qin
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Time [mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org] =
=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Sam Aldrin
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5 =
11:15
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Gregory Mirsky; opsawg@ietf.org; time@ietf.org
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> =20
> thanks for the reply
> On Jul 1, 2014, at 8:09 PM, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Hi, Sam:
> I think the open issue here is the definition of CC and CV in the =
RFC7276 is not consistent with what Greg see CC and CV(I potential agree =
with his observation,J).
> e.g., the definition of CC and CV doesn=E2=80=99t consider =
misconnection defect or defect entry and exit criteria?
> Therefore when we talk about whether BFC support CC or CV or whether =
IP Ping or LSP ping support CC or CV,
> The answer become fuzzy? Do we need to tweak RFC7276 or do we need to =
stick the definition of RFC7276?
> Establishing definition is important before discussing what each of =
different tools could do.
> If RFC7276 doesn=E2=80=99t define correctly, then right thing to do is =
get it fixed.
> But if you want to define altogether a new term, then it is fine, but =
I am not a big fan of that.
> =20
> cheers
> -sam
> =20
> Regards!
> -Qin
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Time [mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org] =
=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Sam Aldrin
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5 =
10:54
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Gregory Mirsky
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: opsawg@ietf.org; time@ietf.org; Qin Wu
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Greg and Qin,
> =20
> Couldn=E2=80=99t follow the thread to its entirety due to various =
inline questions and responses.
> =20
> Is the confusion due to lack of right term to define OAM function(s) =
OR the existing OAM functions defined are not sufficient enough?
> I believe RFC7276 identified comprehensively. Do you think something =
missing?
> =20
> -sam
> On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:38 PM, Gregory Mirsky =
<gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Hi Qin,
> if proactive continuity check viewed as not sufficient and there=E2=80=99=
s a requirement to do proactive connectivity verification. But that, =
IMO, will move us into more narrow segment of use cases, as we=E2=80=99ve =
learned from MPLS-TP. On-demand OAM tools would not require new =
definitions and can be usd for troubleshooting as-is, IMO.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 7:33 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Good point.
> So what you propose seems like we should integrate BFD with IP =
technology and accommodate the definitions (e.g., continuity defect, =
Misconnection Defect, defect entry , defect exit) used in RFC6428 which =
is earlier applied to MPLS-TP to IP encapsulation.
> Am my understanding correct?
> =20
> Regards!
> -Qin
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Gregory Mirsky =
[mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5 =
7:32
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> more in-lininess with the GIM2>> tag in dramatic red.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 8:40 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi, Greg:
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Gregory Mirsky =
[mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=881=E6=97=A5 =
6:33
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> thank you for kind consideration of my comments. Glad we=E2=80=99re =
agree on most so we can clip them and concentrate on few remaining.
> Please find my notes in-line and tagged GIM>> below.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 12:39 AM
> To: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Cc: Gregory Mirsky
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> [=E2=80=A6]
> =20
> Greg>Echo(Ping) does not provide CV as IP is connectionless and has no =
definition of Misconnection defect.
> =20
> [Qin]:Not sure about this. RFC7276 said LSP Ping is used for =
end-to-end
>   Connectivity Verification between two LERs.
> Therefore I think  IP Ping can also provide CV, what am I missing?
> GIM>> I think of CV as proactive OAM mechanism that detects particular =
defect and has clear definition of defect entry and defect exit =
criteria. LSP Ping verifies consistency between control and data plane. =
That, IMO, is close to CV but without definition of defect state is not =
the CV.
> =20
> [Qin]: Interesting point, maybe we can category CV into strict CV and =
loose CV. I think you are talking about strict CV.
> Alternatively, we may need a clear definition of CV that can be =
applied to any technologies, i.e., technology independent terminology.
> =20
> GIM2>> I think of them more from on-demand vs. proactive OAM tools =
POV. The latter is, IMO, defect detecting tool while the former is =
useful for troubleshooting, mostly.
> =20
> [...]
> =20
> Greg>Not, BFD and BFD Echo do not provide CV for the same reason as =
for ICMP =E2=80=93 do definition of Misconnection defect. Besides, BFD =
Echo doesn=E2=80=99t work for multi-hop case but only for single hop.
> =20
> [Qin]: Not sure about this. RFC7276 said SP Ping is used for =
end-to-end
>   Connectivity Verification between two LERs.
> Since BFD Echo is similar to LSP Ping, I think BFD Echo also can =
provide CV.
> GIM>> Unlike LSP Ping BFD does not verify consistency of data plane =
vs. control plane. BFD could and may be used as CV if it would be =
accompanied with definition of Misconnection Defect, its Entry and Exit =
conditions and how the defect gets signaled, i.e. through Diag field. So =
far applicability of the code for Mis-connectivity defect, defined in =
RFC 6428, not been discussed in IP or IP/MPLS networks but only in =
MPLS-TP domains.
> =20
> [Qin]: So your point is the current BFD only can integrated into =
MPLS-TP to provide CV, am I right?
> What about RFC5885 =E2=80=9CBidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) =
for the Pseudowire Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV)=E2=80=9D=
, can I understand it as BFD being integrated with PW to provide CV?
> =20
> GIM2>> Not only in context of MPLS-TP. In fact, BFD does ensures, as =
Huub illustrated, that the right colored wire is plugged in. But except =
for MPLS-TP mis-connectivity is not being treated as a defect. the =
missing part =E2=80=93 definition of mis-connectivity defect entry and =
exit conditions in case of IP encapsulation of BFD control packet. =
Perhaps for RFCs 5881, 5883, 5884 definition given in RFC 6428 may be =
used as foundation but must be adopted to IP encapsulation. As for =
choice of terms, =E2=80=9Cconnectivity verification=E2=80=9D vs. =
=E2=80=9Ccontinuity check=E2=80=9D,  in RFC 5885 it may be debatable =
whether it is CV, considering possible use of ICMP and/or LSP ping, or =
only CC.
> =20
> [=E2=80=A6]
> =20
> Greg>MPLS-TP provides CC through use of BFD
> Greg>MPLS-TP provides CV through use of BFD and extension  to provide =
Source ID.
> =20
> [Qin]: Besides using BFD, is there any other way to provide CC or CV?
> GIM>> I think of CV as optional mode that may be realized with the =
help of CC mechanism. Thus, in addition to Loss of Continuity defect, =
there must be definition of Mis-connection defect. It could be BFD, =
CCM/ETH-CC or else (though not sure whether there=E2=80=99s anything =
=E2=80=9Celse=E2=80=9D).
> =20
> [Qin] Yes, CC and CV can be complementary. We need to generalize these =
terms and apply them to various technologies.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] =
=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Qin Wu
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8825=E6=97=A5=
 16:06
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi, Mohamed:
> Thanks for details review to problem statement draft
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00
> and update I sent to you.
> =20
> Regarding strong technology dependency issue,
> Section 4.2 gives an address scheme  example to explain why the =
existing OAM mechanism has strong
> Technology as follows:
> =E2=80=9C
> Addressing scheme is a good example for an issue
> that has a high price for being non-generic.  Ping of IPv4 and IPv6
> looks different in the addressing scheme as well in the ICMP
> indication field, but they have the same OAM functionalities.
> =E2=80=9D
> You asked to clarify the exact point of this paragraph.
> I think what this paragraph said is
> For IP ping, IPv4 Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol =
[RFC4443] use different IP technology but share the same OAM function.
> =20
> But I agree with you address scheme is not a typical example for =
strong technology dependency.
> I think the typical example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are =
using different network technology but share the same OAM
> functionality, i.e., Path Discovery.  Another example is ICMP,BFD,LSP =
Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology but share
> the same functionality, i.e., continuity check. =20
> =20
> The following figure shows common OAM functionalities shared by =
various existing OAM protocols.
>    |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |Continuity |  Connectivity|    Path      | Performance|
>    |        |  Check    |  Verification|  Discovery   | Monitoring |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | ICMP   |           |   Echo(Ping) |  Traceroute  |            |
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | BFD    |  BFD      |   BFD Echo   |              |            |
>    |        | Control   |              |              |            |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    | LSP    |           |              |              | - Delay    |
>    | Ping   |           |   Ping       |  Traceroute  | - Packet   |
>    |        |           |              |              |    Loss    |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | IPPM   |           |              |              |            |
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    | MPLS-TP|           |              |              |            |
>    | OAM    |  CC       |   CV         |  Traceroute  | -Delay     |
>    |        |           |              |              | -Packet    |
>    |        |           |              |              |   Loss     |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
> =20
> Hope this clarifies.
> =20
> Regards!
> -Qin
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
[mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5=
 22:13
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Unified oam BOF proposal request in IETF 90
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> =20
> Please find attached a first set of comments.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> _______________________________________________
> Time mailing list
> Time@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time


--Apple-Mail=_2A9E6B00-BAA5-4BDA-8B67-915EBCA659D3
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hi =
Qin,<div><br></div><div>RFC 7276 Sec 5.2, Table 4 does the same. =
:D</div><div><br></div><div>-sam<br><div><div>On Jul 1, 2014, at 8:29 =
PM, Qin Wu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com">bill.wu@huawei.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">Sam:<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">This issue is related to figure 1 =
we gave in the section 3.2 of draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-01(<a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-01" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-01<=
/a>).<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">We need to figure out whether the figure 1 needs to =
be updated given the definition of CC and =
CV.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt;"><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Time [<a =
href=3D"mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<sp=
an class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Sam Aldrin<br></span><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:=
 10pt;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>2014</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=B9=B4<span lang=3D"EN-US">7</span>=E6=9C=88=
<span lang=3D"EN-US">2</span>=E6=97=A5<span lang=3D"EN-US"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>11:15<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=
=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span=
 class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Qin =
Wu<br></span><b>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory =
Mirsky; <a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">opsawg@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">time@ietf.org</a><br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=
=98<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Time] Strong =
Technology Dependency<o:p></o:p></span></span></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi =
Qin,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">thanks for the =
reply<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">On Jul 1, 2014, at 8:09 PM, Qin Wu &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;">bill.wu@huawei.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi, =
Sam:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I think the =
open issue here is the definition of CC and CV in the RFC7276 is not =
consistent with what Greg see CC and CV(I potential agree with his =
observation,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">J</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">).</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">e.g., the definition of CC and CV =
doesn=E2=80=99t consider misconnection defect or defect entry and exit =
criteria?</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Therefore when we talk about =
whether BFC support CC or CV or whether IP Ping or LSP ping support CC =
or CV,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The answer =
become fuzzy? Do we need to tweak RFC7276 or do we need to stick the =
definition of RFC7276?</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US">Establishing definition is important before discussing =
what each of different tools could =
do.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">If RFC7276 doesn=E2=80=99t define correctly, then right =
thing to do is get it fixed.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">But if you want to define =
altogether a new term, then it is fine, but I am not a big fan of =
that.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">cheers<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">-sam<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><blockquote =
style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards!</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">-Qin</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">Time [<a href=3D"mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org</a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Sam Aldrin<br></span><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">2014</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">7</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3D"EN-US">2</span>=E6=97=A5<spa=
n class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">10:54<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">Gregory =
Mirsky<br></span><b>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">opsawg@ietf.org</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">time@ietf.org</a>; Qin Wu<br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span=
 lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">Re: [Time] =
Strong Technology Dependency</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Greg and =
Qin,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Couldn</span>=E2=80=99<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">t follow the thread to its entirety due to various inline =
questions and responses.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Is the confusion due to lack =
of right term to define OAM function(s) OR the existing OAM functions =
defined are not sufficient =
enough?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">I believe RFC7276 identified comprehensively. Do you =
think something missing?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">-sam<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:38 PM, =
Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color:=
 purple;">gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</span></a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi =
Qin,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">if =
proactive continuity check viewed as not sufficient and there=E2=80=99s =
a requirement to do proactive connectivity verification. But that, IMO, =
will move us into more narrow segment of use cases, as we=E2=80=99ve =
learned from MPLS-TP. On-demand OAM tools would not require new =
definitions and can be usd for troubleshooting as-is, IMO.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">Qin Wu [<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, July 01, 2014 7:33 =
PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory=
 Mirsky;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong Technology =
Dependency</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; =
text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Good =
point.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So =
what you propose seems like we should integrate BFD with IP technology =
and accommodate the definitions (e.g.,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(0, 176, 80);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">continuity defect, Misconnection Defect, defect entry , defect =
exit) used in RFC6428 which is earlier applied to MPLS-TP to IP =
encapsulation.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Am =
my understanding correct?</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards!</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">-Qin</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">Gregory Mirsky [<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color:=
 purple;">mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br></span><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">2014</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">7</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3D"EN-US">2</span>=E6=97=A5<spa=
n class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">7:32<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">Qin Wu;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">RE: Strong =
Technology Dependency</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; =
text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi =
Qin,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">more =
in-lininess with the GIM2&gt;&gt; tag in dramatic red.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">Qin Wu [<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, June 30, 2014 8:40 =
PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory=
 Mirsky;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong Technology =
Dependency</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; =
text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi, =
Greg:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div=
 style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">Gregory Mirsky [<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color:=
 purple;">mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br></span><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">2014</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">7</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3D"EN-US">1</span>=E6=97=A5<spa=
n class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">6:33<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">Qin Wu;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">RE: Strong =
Technology Dependency</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; =
text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi =
Qin,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">thank =
you for kind consideration of my comments. Glad we=E2=80=99re agree on =
most so we can clip them and concentrate on few remaining.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Please find my notes =
in-line and tagged GIM&gt;&gt; below.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">Qin Wu [<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, June 30, 2014 12:39 =
AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory =
Mirsky<br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong Technology =
Dependency</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; =
text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">[=E2=80=A6]</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div=
 style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Greg&gt;Echo(Ping) does =
not provide CV as IP is connectionless and has no definition of =
Misconnection defect.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin]:Not sure about =
this. RFC7276 said LSP Ping is used for end-to-end</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp; Connectivity =
Verification between two LERs.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Therefore I think =
&nbsp;IP Ping can also provide CV, what am I missing?</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 176, 80);">GIM&gt;&gt; I think of CV =
as proactive OAM mechanism that detects particular defect and has clear =
definition of defect entry and defect exit criteria. LSP Ping verifies =
consistency between control and data plane. That, IMO, is close to CV =
but without definition of defect state is not the CV.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin]: Interesting point, =
maybe we can category CV into strict CV and loose CV. I think you are =
talking about strict CV.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Alternatively, we may =
need a clear definition of CV that can be applied to any technologies, =
i.e., technology independent terminology.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: red;">GIM2&gt;&gt; I think of them more from =
on-demand vs. proactive OAM tools POV. The latter is, IMO, defect =
detecting tool while the former is useful for troubleshooting, =
mostly.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">[...]</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Greg&gt;Not, BFD and BFD Echo do not provide CV for the same =
reason as for ICMP =E2=80=93 do definition of Misconnection defect. =
Besides, BFD Echo doesn=E2=80=99t work for multi-hop case but only for =
single hop.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">[Qin]: Not sure about this. RFC7276 said SP Ping is used for =
end-to-end</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp; Connectivity Verification between two LERs.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Since BFD Echo is similar =
to LSP Ping, I think BFD Echo also can provide CV.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 176, 80);">GIM&gt;&gt; Unlike LSP =
Ping BFD does not verify consistency of data plane vs. control plane. =
BFD could and may be used as CV if it would be accompanied with =
definition of Misconnection Defect, its Entry and Exit conditions and =
how the defect gets signaled, i.e. through Diag field. So far =
applicability of the code for Mis-connectivity defect, defined in RFC =
6428, not been discussed in IP or IP/MPLS networks but only in MPLS-TP =
domains.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">[Qin]: So your point is the current BFD only can integrated into =
MPLS-TP to provide CV, am I right?</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">What about RFC5885 =
=E2=80=9CBidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) for the Pseudowire =
Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV)=E2=80=9D, can I =
understand it as BFD being integrated with PW to provide CV?</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: red;">GIM2&gt;&gt; Not only in context of =
MPLS-TP. In fact, BFD does ensures, as Huub illustrated, that the right =
colored wire is plugged in. But except for MPLS-TP mis-connectivity is =
not being treated as a defect. the missing part =E2=80=93 definition of =
mis-connectivity defect entry and exit conditions in case of IP =
encapsulation of BFD control packet. Perhaps for RFCs 5881, 5883, 5884 =
definition given in RFC 6428 may be used as foundation but must be =
adopted to IP encapsulation. As for choice of terms, =E2=80=9Cconnectivity=
 verification=E2=80=9D vs. =E2=80=9Ccontinuity check=E2=80=9D, &nbsp;in =
RFC 5885 it may be debatable whether it is CV, considering possible use =
of ICMP and/or LSP ping, or only CC.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[=E2=80=A6]</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Greg&gt;MPLS-TP provides =
CC through use of BFD</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Greg&gt;MPLS-TP provides =
CV through use of BFD and extension&nbsp; to provide Source =
ID.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">[Qin]: Besides using BFD, is there any other way to provide CC or =
CV?</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">GIM&gt;&gt; I think of CV as optional mode that may be realized =
with the help of CC mechanism. Thus, in addition to Loss of Continuity =
defect, there must be definition of Mis-connection defect. It could be =
BFD, CCM/ETH-CC or else (though not sure whether there=E2=80=99s =
anything =E2=80=9Celse=E2=80=9D).</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin] Yes, CC and CV can =
be complementary. We need to generalize these terms and apply them to =
various technologies.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">OPSAWG [<a href=3D"mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Qin Wu<br></span><b><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">2014</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">6</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3D"EN-US">25</span>=E6=97=A5<sp=
an class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">16:06<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br></span><b>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a><br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=
=A2=98<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">[OPSAWG] Strong =
Technology Dependency</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; =
text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi, =
Mohamed:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Thanks for details review to problem statement draft</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color:=
 =
purple;">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00</sp=
an></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">and =
update I sent to you.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regarding strong =
technology dependency issue,</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Section 4.2 gives an =
address scheme&nbsp; example to explain why the existing OAM mechanism =
has strong</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Technology as follows:</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';">Addressing scheme is a good example for an =
issue</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">that has a high price for being =
non-generic.&nbsp; Ping of IPv4 and IPv6</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';">looks different in the addressing scheme as well in the =
ICMP</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">indication field, but they have the =
same OAM functionalities.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">=E2=80=9D</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You asked to clarify the =
exact point of this paragraph.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I think what this =
paragraph said is</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">For =
IP ping, IPv4 Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol [RFC4443] =
use different IP technology but share the same OAM function.</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">But I agree with you =
address scheme is not a typical example for strong technology =
dependency.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I =
think the typical example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using =
different network technology but share the same OAM</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">functionality, i.e., Path =
Discovery.&nbsp; Another example is ICMP,BFD,LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM =
are using different network technology but share</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">the same functionality, =
i.e., continuity check. &nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The following figure =
shows common OAM functionalities shared by various existing OAM =
protocols.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+<o:p></o:=
p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|Continuity |&nbsp; Connectivity|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Path&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | =
Performance|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp; Check&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; Verification|&nbsp; =
Discovery&nbsp;&nbsp; | Monitoring =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+<o:p></o:=
p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; | ICMP&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp; Echo(Ping) |&nbsp; Traceroute&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+<o:p></o:=
p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; | BFD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
BFD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; BFD Echo&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; | =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></=
o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
| Control&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+<o:p></o:=
p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; | LSP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; | - Delay&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; | Ping&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp; Ping&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp; =
Traceroute&nbsp; | - Packet&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Loss&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+<o:p></o:=
p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; | IPPM&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+<o:p></o:=
p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; | =
MPLS-TP|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; | OAM&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
CC&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; =
CV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
Traceroute&nbsp; | -Delay&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; | -Packet&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Loss&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+<o:p></o:=
p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hope this =
clarifies.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Regards!</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">-Qin</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div=
 style=3D"border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, =
223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style=3D"margin: =
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;"><a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[<a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br></span><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt;">2014</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">6</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3D"EN-US">24</span>=E6=97=A5<sp=
an class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">22:13<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">Qin =
Wu<br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US">RE: Unified oam =
BOF proposal request in IETF 90</span></span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; =
text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">Hi Qin,</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">&nbsp;</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; text-align: =
justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">Please find attached a first set =
of comments.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, =
0);">&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, =
0);">Cheers,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=
=E4=BD=93; text-align: justify;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">Med</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, =
sans-serif;">_______________________________________________<br>Time =
mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:Time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">Time@ietf.org</span></a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time</span></a></span></div=
></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div=
><br></div></body></html>=

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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
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Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 03:35:44 +0000
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--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C4CCnkgeml501mbschi_--


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From: Yuji Tochio <tochio@jp.fujitsu.com>
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To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B6A4@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <53B15EED.2020701@gmail.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BDB8@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <53B27392.4000700@gmail.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BFDF@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <53B3519C.50403@jp.fujitsu.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C46E@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain boundary
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Hi Qin,

(2014/07/02 12:19), Qin Wu wrote:
>
> Hi, Yuji:
>
> Thanks for pointing me to the relevant references. I will read.
>
> I see how MEL is used in slide 36 associated with RFC5317.
>
> It looks MEL is used to identify which part of network the fault happens, e.g.,
>
> MEL x: Carrier1;
>
> MEL y: Carrier1, Region 1;
>
> MEL z: Carrier1, Region 2;
>

To consider the slide, SPME, section 3.2 of RFC 6371, is adapted to MPLS-TP OAM architecure.
So far, MPLS-TP has only one MEL as Huub pointed out.

Regards, Yuji

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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Qin,<br>
      <br>
      (2014/07/02 12:19), Qin Wu wrote:<br>
    </div>
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">Thanks
            for pointing me to the relevant references. I will read.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">I
            see how MEL is used in slide 36 associated with RFC5317.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">It
            looks MEL is used to identify which part of network the
            fault happens, e.g.,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D" lang="EN-US">MEL
            x: Carrier1;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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            y: Carrier1, Region 1;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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            z: Carrier1, Region 2;</span></p>
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    <br>
    To consider the slide, SPME, section 3.2 of RFC 6371, is adapted to
    MPLS-TP OAM architecure.<br>
    So far, MPLS-TP has only one MEL as Huub pointed out. <br>
    <br>
    Regards, Yuji<br>
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: Yuji Tochio <tochio@jp.fujitsu.com>
Thread-Topic: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain boundary
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I see, =
thanks for clarification.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:windowtext">=B7=A2=BC=FE=
=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:windowtext"> Yuji Tochio
 [mailto:tochio@jp.fujitsu.com] <br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:windowte=
xt">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:windowtext=
"> 2014</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;color:wind=
owtext">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-US">7</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">2</sp=
an>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 12:02<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> Qin Wu<br>
</span><b>=B3=AD=CB=CD<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> time@ietf.org<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> Re: [Time] MEP and maintenance domain boundary<o:p></o:p></span></span></=
p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Qin,<br>
<br>
(2014/07/02 12:19), Qin Wu wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi, Yuj=
i:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks =
for pointing me to the relevant references. I will read.</span><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I see h=
ow MEL is used in slide 36 associated with RFC5317.</span><span lang=3D"EN-=
US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">It look=
s MEL is used to identify which part of network the fault happens, e.g.,</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">MEL x: =
Carrier1;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">MEL y: =
Carrier1, Region 1;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">MEL z: =
Carrier1, Region 2;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=
=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;MS PGothic&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
To consider the slide, SPME, section 3.2 of RFC 6371, is adapted to MPLS-TP=
 OAM architecure.<br>
So far, MPLS-TP has only one MEL as Huub pointed out. <br>
<br>
Regards, Yuji<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C54Bnkgeml501mbschi_--


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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 22:46:29 -0700
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References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845491A9@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330016F2E@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84573094@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933001D499@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845756DA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B68F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E4426@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BCE4@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E52E4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C3FA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E55DB@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <772B4CEA-8B89-4F65-A33C-74F755412073@gmail.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E56CF@eusaamb103.ericsson.se>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
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Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
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Hi Greg,

response inline.
On Jul 1, 2014, at 10:31 PM, Gregory Mirsky =
<gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:

> Hi Sam,
> I don=E2=80=99t agree with all points of RFC 7276, in particular its =
use of Connectivity Verification for connectionless networks.
Well, if RFC7276 defined terms incorrectly, it should be fixed, rather =
than re-defining the meaning here. Else we will create confusion with =
multiple meanings and interpretations.

> I believe that in connectionless network only Continuity Check could =
be realized. Tools like ICMP and LSP ping verify not connection but =
correlation between control plane and data plane.
I don=E2=80=99t think you can equate LSP ping with ICMP. And I don=E2=80=99=
t agree that LSP ping only verifies CP to DP. For ex: RFC4379 response =
codes 4, 5, 9 etc do not correlate CP to DP, rather verify DP. Does that =
make it connection verification? As per RFC7276, answer is yes.=20
> To use CV to characterize them, IMO, confuses discussion and, I =
believe, we had it sorted during MPLS-TP work.
At least I am not confused if I use the existing definition of RFC7276. =
:D

-sam
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 7:54 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky
> Cc: Qin Wu; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Greg and Qin,
> =20
> Couldn=E2=80=99t follow the thread to its entirety due to various =
inline questions and responses.
> =20
> Is the confusion due to lack of right term to define OAM function(s) =
OR the existing OAM functions defined are not sufficient enough?
> I believe RFC7276 identified comprehensively. Do you think something =
missing?
> =20
> -sam
> On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:38 PM, Gregory Mirsky =
<gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Hi Qin,
> if proactive continuity check viewed as not sufficient and there=E2=80=99=
s a requirement to do proactive connectivity verification. But that, =
IMO, will move us into more narrow segment of use cases, as we=E2=80=99ve =
learned from MPLS-TP. On-demand OAM tools would not require new =
definitions and can be usd for troubleshooting as-is, IMO.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 7:33 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Good point.
> So what you propose seems like we should integrate BFD with IP =
technology and accommodate the definitions (e.g., continuity defect, =
Misconnection Defect, defect entry , defect exit) used in RFC6428 which =
is earlier applied to MPLS-TP to IP encapsulation.
> Am my understanding correct?
> =20
> Regards!
> -Qin
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Gregory Mirsky =
[mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5 =
7:32
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> more in-lininess with the GIM2>> tag in dramatic red.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 8:40 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi, Greg:
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Gregory Mirsky =
[mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=881=E6=97=A5 =
6:33
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> thank you for kind consideration of my comments. Glad we=E2=80=99re =
agree on most so we can clip them and concentrate on few remaining.
> Please find my notes in-line and tagged GIM>> below.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 12:39 AM
> To: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Cc: Gregory Mirsky
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> [=E2=80=A6]
> =20
> Greg>Echo(Ping) does not provide CV as IP is connectionless and has no =
definition of Misconnection defect.
> =20
> [Qin]:Not sure about this. RFC7276 said LSP Ping is used for =
end-to-end
>   Connectivity Verification between two LERs.
> Therefore I think  IP Ping can also provide CV, what am I missing?
> GIM>> I think of CV as proactive OAM mechanism that detects particular =
defect and has clear definition of defect entry and defect exit =
criteria. LSP Ping verifies consistency between control and data plane. =
That, IMO, is close to CV but without definition of defect state is not =
the CV.
> =20
> [Qin]: Interesting point, maybe we can category CV into strict CV and =
loose CV. I think you are talking about strict CV.
> Alternatively, we may need a clear definition of CV that can be =
applied to any technologies, i.e., technology independent terminology.
> =20
> GIM2>> I think of them more from on-demand vs. proactive OAM tools =
POV. The latter is, IMO, defect detecting tool while the former is =
useful for troubleshooting, mostly.
> =20
> [...]
> =20
> Greg>Not, BFD and BFD Echo do not provide CV for the same reason as =
for ICMP =E2=80=93 do definition of Misconnection defect. Besides, BFD =
Echo doesn=E2=80=99t work for multi-hop case but only for single hop.
> =20
> [Qin]: Not sure about this. RFC7276 said SP Ping is used for =
end-to-end
>   Connectivity Verification between two LERs.
> Since BFD Echo is similar to LSP Ping, I think BFD Echo also can =
provide CV.
> GIM>> Unlike LSP Ping BFD does not verify consistency of data plane =
vs. control plane. BFD could and may be used as CV if it would be =
accompanied with definition of Misconnection Defect, its Entry and Exit =
conditions and how the defect gets signaled, i.e. through Diag field. So =
far applicability of the code for Mis-connectivity defect, defined in =
RFC 6428, not been discussed in IP or IP/MPLS networks but only in =
MPLS-TP domains.
> =20
> [Qin]: So your point is the current BFD only can integrated into =
MPLS-TP to provide CV, am I right?
> What about RFC5885 =E2=80=9CBidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) =
for the Pseudowire Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV)=E2=80=9D=
, can I understand it as BFD being integrated with PW to provide CV?
> =20
> GIM2>> Not only in context of MPLS-TP. In fact, BFD does ensures, as =
Huub illustrated, that the right colored wire is plugged in. But except =
for MPLS-TP mis-connectivity is not being treated as a defect. the =
missing part =E2=80=93 definition of mis-connectivity defect entry and =
exit conditions in case of IP encapsulation of BFD control packet. =
Perhaps for RFCs 5881, 5883, 5884 definition given in RFC 6428 may be =
used as foundation but must be adopted to IP encapsulation. As for =
choice of terms, =E2=80=9Cconnectivity verification=E2=80=9D vs. =
=E2=80=9Ccontinuity check=E2=80=9D,  in RFC 5885 it may be debatable =
whether it is CV, considering possible use of ICMP and/or LSP ping, or =
only CC.
> =20
> [=E2=80=A6]
> =20
> Greg>MPLS-TP provides CC through use of BFD
> Greg>MPLS-TP provides CV through use of BFD and extension  to provide =
Source ID.
> =20
> [Qin]: Besides using BFD, is there any other way to provide CC or CV?
> GIM>> I think of CV as optional mode that may be realized with the =
help of CC mechanism. Thus, in addition to Loss of Continuity defect, =
there must be definition of Mis-connection defect. It could be BFD, =
CCM/ETH-CC or else (though not sure whether there=E2=80=99s anything =
=E2=80=9Celse=E2=80=9D).
> =20
> [Qin] Yes, CC and CV can be complementary. We need to generalize these =
terms and apply them to various technologies.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] =
=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Qin Wu
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8825=E6=97=A5=
 16:06
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi, Mohamed:
> Thanks for details review to problem statement draft
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00
> and update I sent to you.
> =20
> Regarding strong technology dependency issue,
> Section 4.2 gives an address scheme  example to explain why the =
existing OAM mechanism has strong
> Technology as follows:
> =E2=80=9C
> Addressing scheme is a good example for an issue
> that has a high price for being non-generic.  Ping of IPv4 and IPv6
> looks different in the addressing scheme as well in the ICMP
> indication field, but they have the same OAM functionalities.
> =E2=80=9D
> You asked to clarify the exact point of this paragraph.
> I think what this paragraph said is
> For IP ping, IPv4 Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol =
[RFC4443] use different IP technology but share the same OAM function.
> =20
> But I agree with you address scheme is not a typical example for =
strong technology dependency.
> I think the typical example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are =
using different network technology but share the same OAM
> functionality, i.e., Path Discovery.  Another example is ICMP,BFD,LSP =
Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology but share
> the same functionality, i.e., continuity check. =20
> =20
> The following figure shows common OAM functionalities shared by =
various existing OAM protocols.
>    |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |Continuity |  Connectivity|    Path      | Performance|
>    |        |  Check    |  Verification|  Discovery   | Monitoring |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | ICMP   |           |   Echo(Ping) |  Traceroute  |            |
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | BFD    |  BFD      |   BFD Echo   |              |            |
>    |        | Control   |              |              |            |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    | LSP    |           |              |              | - Delay    |
>    | Ping   |           |   Ping       |  Traceroute  | - Packet   |
>    |        |           |              |              |    Loss    |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | IPPM   |           |              |              |            |
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    | MPLS-TP|           |              |              |            |
>    | OAM    |  CC       |   CV         |  Traceroute  | -Delay     |
>    |        |           |              |              | -Packet    |
>    |        |           |              |              |   Loss     |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
> =20
> Hope this clarifies.
> =20
> Regards!
> -Qin
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com =
[mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5=
 22:13
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Unified oam BOF proposal request in IETF 90
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> =20
> Please find attached a first set of comments.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> _______________________________________________
> Time mailing list
> Time@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time


--Apple-Mail=_9D97FA5F-022A-4D6C-A81D-0EB58E0F39AE
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hi =
Greg,<div><br></div><div>response inline.<br><div><div>On Jul 1, 2014, =
at 10:31 PM, Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com">gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</a=
>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Sam,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I don=E2=80=99t agree with all =
points of RFC 7276, in particular its use of Connectivity Verification =
for connectionless networks.</span></div></div></div></blockquote>Well, =
if RFC7276 defined terms incorrectly, it should be fixed, rather than =
re-defining the meaning here. Else we will create confusion with =
multiple meanings and interpretations.</div><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);"> I believe that in connectionless network only =
Continuity Check could be realized. Tools like ICMP and LSP ping verify =
not connection but correlation between control plane and data plane. =
</span></div></div></div></blockquote>I don=E2=80=99t think you can =
equate LSP ping with ICMP. And I don=E2=80=99t agree that LSP ping only =
verifies CP to DP. For ex: RFC4379 response codes 4, 5, 9 etc do not =
correlate CP to DP, rather verify DP. Does that make it connection =
verification? As per RFC7276, answer is yes.&nbsp;<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">To use CV to characterize them, IMO, confuses =
discussion and, I believe, we had it sorted during MPLS-TP =
work.</span></div></div></div></blockquote>At least I am not confused if =
I use the existing definition of RFC7276. =
:D</div><div><br></div><div>-sam<br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class=3D"WordSection1" =
style=3D"page: WordSection1;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Greg<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Sam Aldrin [<a =
href=3D"mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com">mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com</a>]<sp=
an class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, July 01, 2014 7:54 =
PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory=
 Mirsky<br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Qin Wu; <a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">time@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">opsawg@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><spa=
n class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Time] Strong =
Technology Dependency<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Greg =
and Qin,<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">Couldn=E2=80=99t follow the thread to its entirety due to =
various inline questions and responses.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;">Is the confusion due to lack of right term to define =
OAM function(s) OR the existing OAM functions defined are not sufficient =
enough?<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">I =
believe RFC7276 identified comprehensively. Do you think something =
missing?<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">-sam<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;">On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:38 PM, Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;">gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Qin,</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">if proactive continuity =
check viewed as not sufficient and there=E2=80=99s a requirement to do =
proactive connectivity verification. But that, IMO, will move us into =
more narrow segment of use cases, as we=E2=80=99ve learned from MPLS-TP. =
On-demand OAM tools would not require new definitions and can be usd for =
troubleshooting as-is, IMO.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">Qin Wu [<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, July 01, 2014 7:33 =
PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory=
 Mirsky;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">time@ietf.org</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">opsawg@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong Technology =
Dependency</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Good point.</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So what you propose seems =
like we should integrate BFD with IP technology and accommodate the =
definitions (e.g.,</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 176, 80);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: =
rgb(31, 73, 125);">continuity defect, Misconnection Defect, defect entry =
, defect exit) used in RFC6428 which is earlier applied to MPLS-TP to IP =
encapsulation.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Am my understanding =
correct?</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards!</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">-Qin</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">Gregory Mirsky [<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br></span><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">2014</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">7</span><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E6=9C=88</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">2</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">=E6=97=A5</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">7:32<br></span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">Qin Wu;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br></span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">RE: Strong Technology Dependency</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Qin,</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">more in-lininess with the =
GIM2&gt;&gt; tag in dramatic red.</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">Qin Wu [<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, June 30, 2014 8:40 =
PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory=
 Mirsky;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong Technology =
Dependency</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi, Greg:</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">Gregory Mirsky [<a =
href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br></span><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">2014</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">7</span><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E6=9C=88</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">1</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">=E6=97=A5</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">6:33<br></span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">Qin Wu;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br></span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">RE: Strong Technology Dependency</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Qin,</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">thank you for kind =
consideration of my comments. Glad we=E2=80=99re agree on most so we can =
clip them and concentrate on few remaining.</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Please find my notes =
in-line and tagged GIM&gt;&gt; below.</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">Qin Wu [<a =
href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, June 30, 2014 12:39 =
AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br><b>Cc:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory =
Mirsky<br><b>Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong Technology =
Dependency</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[=E2=80=A6]</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Greg&gt;Echo(Ping) does =
not provide CV as IP is connectionless and has no definition of =
Misconnection defect.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin]:Not sure about =
this. RFC7276 said LSP Ping is used for end-to-end</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp; Connectivity =
Verification between two LERs.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Therefore I think &nbsp;IP Ping can also provide CV, what am I =
missing?</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 176, 80);">GIM&gt;&gt; I think of CV =
as proactive OAM mechanism that detects particular defect and has clear =
definition of defect entry and defect exit criteria. LSP Ping verifies =
consistency between control and data plane. That, IMO, is close to CV =
but without definition of defect state is not the CV.</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin]: Interesting point, =
maybe we can category CV into strict CV and loose CV. I think you are =
talking about strict CV.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Alternatively, we may need a clear definition of CV that can be =
applied to any technologies, i.e., technology independent =
terminology.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: red;">GIM2&gt;&gt; I think of them more from =
on-demand vs. proactive OAM tools POV. The latter is, IMO, defect =
detecting tool while the former is useful for troubleshooting, =
mostly.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[...]</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Greg&gt;Not, BFD and BFD =
Echo do not provide CV for the same reason as for ICMP =E2=80=93 do =
definition of Misconnection defect. Besides, BFD Echo doesn=E2=80=99t =
work for multi-hop case but only for single hop.</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin]: Not sure about =
this. RFC7276 said SP Ping is used for end-to-end</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp; Connectivity =
Verification between two LERs.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Since BFD Echo is similar to LSP Ping, I think BFD Echo also can =
provide CV.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 176, 80);">GIM&gt;&gt; Unlike LSP =
Ping BFD does not verify consistency of data plane vs. control plane. =
BFD could and may be used as CV if it would be accompanied with =
definition of Misconnection Defect, its Entry and Exit conditions and =
how the defect gets signaled, i.e. through Diag field. So far =
applicability of the code for Mis-connectivity defect, defined in RFC =
6428, not been discussed in IP or IP/MPLS networks but only in MPLS-TP =
domains.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin]: So your point is =
the current BFD only can integrated into MPLS-TP to provide CV, am I =
right?</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">What about RFC5885 =
=E2=80=9CBidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) for the Pseudowire =
Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV)=E2=80=9D, can I =
understand it as BFD being integrated with PW to provide CV?</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: red;">GIM2&gt;&gt; Not only in context of =
MPLS-TP. In fact, BFD does ensures, as Huub illustrated, that the right =
colored wire is plugged in. But except for MPLS-TP mis-connectivity is =
not being treated as a defect. the missing part =E2=80=93 definition of =
mis-connectivity defect entry and exit conditions in case of IP =
encapsulation of BFD control packet. Perhaps for RFCs 5881, 5883, 5884 =
definition given in RFC 6428 may be used as foundation but must be =
adopted to IP encapsulation. As for choice of terms, =E2=80=9Cconnectivity=
 verification=E2=80=9D vs. =E2=80=9Ccontinuity check=E2=80=9D, &nbsp;in =
RFC 5885 it may be debatable whether it is CV, considering possible use =
of ICMP and/or LSP ping, or only CC.</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[=E2=80=A6]</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Greg&gt;MPLS-TP provides =
CC through use of BFD</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Greg&gt;MPLS-TP provides CV through use of BFD and =
extension&nbsp; to provide Source ID.</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin]: Besides using BFD, =
is there any other way to provide CC or CV?</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">GIM&gt;&gt; I think of CV =
as optional mode that may be realized with the help of CC mechanism. =
Thus, in addition to Loss of Continuity defect, there must be definition =
of Mis-connection defect. It could be BFD, CCM/ETH-CC or else (though =
not sure whether there=E2=80=99s anything =E2=80=9Celse=E2=80=9D).</span><=
span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[Qin] Yes, CC and CV can =
be complementary. We need to generalize these terms and apply them to =
various technologies.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">OPSAWG [<a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">Qin Wu<br></span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">2014</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">6</span><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E6=9C=88</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">25</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">=E6=97=A5</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">16:06<br></span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;"><a href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color:=
 purple;">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br></span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;"><a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a><br></span><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">[OPSAWG] Strong Technology =
Dependency</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi, Mohamed:</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks for details review =
to problem statement draft</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00" =
style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color:=
 =
purple;">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00</sp=
an></a></span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">and update I sent to =
you.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regarding strong =
technology dependency issue,</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Section 4.2 gives an address scheme&nbsp; example to explain why =
the existing OAM mechanism has strong</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">Technology as follows:</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">=E2=80=9C</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';">Addressing scheme is a good example for an =
issue</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';">that has a high price for being non-generic.&nbsp; Ping =
of IPv4 and IPv6</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';">looks different in the addressing scheme as well in the =
ICMP</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
'Courier New';">indication field, but they have the same OAM =
functionalities.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">=E2=80=9D</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You asked to clarify the =
exact point of this paragraph.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I =
think what this paragraph said is</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">For =
IP ping, IPv4 Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol [RFC4443] =
use different IP technology but share the same OAM function.</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">But I agree with you =
address scheme is not a typical example for strong technology =
dependency.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I think the typical =
example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network =
technology but share the same OAM</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">functionality, i.e., Path Discovery.&nbsp; Another example is =
ICMP,BFD,LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology =
but share</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">the same functionality, =
i.e., continuity check. &nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, =
125);">&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The following figure =
shows common OAM functionalities shared by various existing OAM =
protocols.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |Continuity |&nbsp; =
Connectivity|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Path&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | =
Performance|</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
Check&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; Verification|&nbsp; =
Discovery&nbsp;&nbsp; | Monitoring |</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; | ICMP&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp; Echo(Ping) |&nbsp; Traceroute&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; | BFD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp; BFD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; BFD =
Echo&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; | =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|</span>=
<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Control&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; | LSP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; | - Delay&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; | =
Ping&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp; Ping&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp; =
Traceroute&nbsp; | - Packet&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Loss&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; | IPPM&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; | =
MPLS-TP|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;|</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; | =
OAM&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; CC&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp; CV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
Traceroute&nbsp; | -Delay&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; | -Packet&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Loss&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span =
style=3D"font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;&nbsp; =
+--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hope this =
clarifies.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards!</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">-Qin</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style=3D"border-style: =
solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: =
1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;"><a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[<a =
href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;"><span style=3D"color: =
purple;">mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a>]<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br></span><b><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">2014</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">6</span><span =
lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E6=9C=88</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">24</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">=E6=97=A5</span><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">22:13<br></span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">Qin Wu<br></span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
SimSun;">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; =
font-family: SimSun;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10pt; font-family: SimSun;">RE: Unified oam BOF proposal request in IETF =
90</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', =
serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">Hi Qin,</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">Please find attached a first set =
of comments.</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">&nbsp;</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">Cheers,</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; =
text-align: justify;"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: =
'Courier New'; color: rgb(0, 51, 0);">Med</span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times =
New Roman', serif;"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: =
Helvetica, =
sans-serif;">_______________________________________________<br>Time =
mailing list<br><a href=3D"mailto:Time@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; =
text-decoration: underline;">Time@ietf.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time" style=3D"color: =
purple; text-decoration: =
underline;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time</a></span></div></d=
iv></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_9D97FA5F-022A-4D6C-A81D-0EB58E0F39AE--


From nobody Tue Jul  1 23:02:20 2014
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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
Thread-Index: AQHPkExClaEuAYsfAkmaJiSeVAvEmZuIxghggAF5cuCAAFSaoIABTXhQgAA373CAAAJR4IAASFgA///mGKCAAEoqgP//wMbQ
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 06:02:00 +0000
Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E5726@eusaamb103.ericsson.se>
References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845491A9@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330016F2E@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84573094@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933001D499@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845756DA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B68F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E4426@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BCE4@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E52E4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C3FA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E55DB@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <772B4CEA-8B89-4F65-A33C-74F755412073@gmail.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E56CF@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8EE0F85-4830-4674-908D-ABC775BDDF76@gmail.com>
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Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
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From nobody Tue Jul  1 23:06:38 2014
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References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845491A9@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330016F2E@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84573094@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933001D499@OPEXCLILM23.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845756DA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457B68F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E4426@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457BCE4@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E52E4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457C3FA@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E55DB@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <772B4CEA-8B89-4F65-A33C-74F755412073@gmail.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E56CF@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <B8EE0F85-4830-4674-908D-ABC775BDDF76@gmail.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B7E5726@eusaamb103.ericsson.se>
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From: Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 23:06:15 -0700
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/KggMpDF9gJwMSAyulSvR8ouaqpc
Cc: "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>, Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
Subject: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
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Hi Greg,

That would be ideal. Thanks.

Sam

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 1, 2014, at 11:02 PM, Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> w=
rote:
>=20
> Hi Sam,
> I=E2=80=99ll look into whether filing Errata is the best path.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 10:46 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky
> Cc: Qin Wu; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi Greg,
> =20
> response inline.
> On Jul 1, 2014, at 10:31 PM, Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> w=
rote:
>=20
>=20
> Hi Sam,
> I don=E2=80=99t agree with all points of RFC 7276, in particular its use o=
f Connectivity Verification for connectionless networks.
> Well, if RFC7276 defined terms incorrectly, it should be fixed, rather tha=
n re-defining the meaning here. Else we will create confusion with multiple m=
eanings and interpretations.
>=20
>=20
> I believe that in connectionless network only Continuity Check could be re=
alized. Tools like ICMP and LSP ping verify not connection but correlation b=
etween control plane and data plane.
> I don=E2=80=99t think you can equate LSP ping with ICMP. And I don=E2=80=99=
t agree that LSP ping only verifies CP to DP. For ex: RFC4379 response codes=
 4, 5, 9 etc do not correlate CP to DP, rather verify DP. Does that make it c=
onnection verification? As per RFC7276, answer is yes.=20
>=20
> To use CV to characterize them, IMO, confuses discussion and, I believe, w=
e had it sorted during MPLS-TP work.
> At least I am not confused if I use the existing definition of RFC7276. :D=

> =20
> -sam
>=20
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Sam Aldrin [mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 7:54 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky
> Cc: Qin Wu; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Greg and Qin,
> =20
> Couldn=E2=80=99t follow the thread to its entirety due to various inline q=
uestions and responses.
> =20
> Is the confusion due to lack of right term to define OAM function(s) OR th=
e existing OAM functions defined are not sufficient enough?
> I believe RFC7276 identified comprehensively. Do you think something missi=
ng?
> =20
> -sam
> On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:38 PM, Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> w=
rote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Hi Qin,
> if proactive continuity check viewed as not sufficient and there=E2=80=99s=
 a requirement to do proactive connectivity verification. But that, IMO, wil=
l move us into more narrow segment of use cases, as we=E2=80=99ve learned fr=
om MPLS-TP. On-demand OAM tools would not require new definitions and can be=
 usd for troubleshooting as-is, IMO.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 7:33 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Good point.
> So what you propose seems like we should integrate BFD with IP technology a=
nd accommodate the definitions (e.g., continuity defect, Misconnection Defec=
t, defect entry , defect exit) used in RFC6428 which is earlier applied to M=
PLS-TP to IP encapsulation.
> Am my understanding correct?
> =20
> Regards!
> -Qin
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsso=
n.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5 7:=
32
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> more in-lininess with the GIM2>> tag in dramatic red.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 8:40 PM
> To: Gregory Mirsky; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi, Greg:
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsso=
n.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=881=E6=97=A5 6:=
33
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu; time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> thank you for kind consideration of my comments. Glad we=E2=80=99re agree o=
n most so we can clip them and concentrate on few remaining.
> Please find my notes in-line and tagged GIM>> below.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> From: Qin Wu [mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 12:39 AM
> To: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Cc: Gregory Mirsky
> Subject: RE: Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> [=E2=80=A6]
> =20
> Greg>Echo(Ping) does not provide CV as IP is connectionless and has no def=
inition of Misconnection defect.
> =20
> [Qin]:Not sure about this. RFC7276 said LSP Ping is used for end-to-end
>   Connectivity Verification between two LERs.
> Therefore I think  IP Ping can also provide CV, what am I missing?
> GIM>> I think of CV as proactive OAM mechanism that detects particular def=
ect and has clear definition of defect entry and defect exit criteria. LSP P=
ing verifies consistency between control and data plane. That, IMO, is close=
 to CV but without definition of defect state is not the CV.
> =20
> [Qin]: Interesting point, maybe we can category CV into strict CV and loos=
e CV. I think you are talking about strict CV.
> Alternatively, we may need a clear definition of CV that can be applied to=
 any technologies, i.e., technology independent terminology.
> =20
> GIM2>> I think of them more from on-demand vs. proactive OAM tools POV. Th=
e latter is, IMO, defect detecting tool while the former is useful for troub=
leshooting, mostly.
> =20
> [...]
> =20
> Greg>Not, BFD and BFD Echo do not provide CV for the same reason as for IC=
MP =E2=80=93 do definition of Misconnection defect. Besides, BFD Echo doesn=E2=
=80=99t work for multi-hop case but only for single hop.
> =20
> [Qin]: Not sure about this. RFC7276 said SP Ping is used for end-to-end
>   Connectivity Verification between two LERs.
> Since BFD Echo is similar to LSP Ping, I think BFD Echo also can provide C=
V.
> GIM>> Unlike LSP Ping BFD does not verify consistency of data plane vs. co=
ntrol plane. BFD could and may be used as CV if it would be accompanied with=
 definition of Misconnection Defect, its Entry and Exit conditions and how t=
he defect gets signaled, i.e. through Diag field. So far applicability of th=
e code for Mis-connectivity defect, defined in RFC 6428, not been discussed i=
n IP or IP/MPLS networks but only in MPLS-TP domains.
> =20
> [Qin]: So your point is the current BFD only can integrated into MPLS-TP t=
o provide CV, am I right?
> What about RFC5885 =E2=80=9CBidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) for t=
he Pseudowire Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV)=E2=80=9D, can=
 I understand it as BFD being integrated with PW to provide CV?
> =20
> GIM2>> Not only in context of MPLS-TP. In fact, BFD does ensures, as Huub i=
llustrated, that the right colored wire is plugged in. But except for MPLS-T=
P mis-connectivity is not being treated as a defect. the missing part =E2=80=
=93 definition of mis-connectivity defect entry and exit conditions in case o=
f IP encapsulation of BFD control packet. Perhaps for RFCs 5881, 5883, 5884 d=
efinition given in RFC 6428 may be used as foundation but must be adopted to=
 IP encapsulation. As for choice of terms, =E2=80=9Cconnectivity verificatio=
n=E2=80=9D vs. =E2=80=9Ccontinuity check=E2=80=9D,  in RFC 5885 it may be de=
batable whether it is CV, considering possible use of ICMP and/or LSP ping, o=
r only CC.
> =20
> [=E2=80=A6]
> =20
> Greg>MPLS-TP provides CC through use of BFD
> Greg>MPLS-TP provides CV through use of BFD and extension  to provide Sour=
ce ID.
> =20
> [Qin]: Besides using BFD, is there any other way to provide CC or CV?
> GIM>> I think of CV as optional mode that may be realized with the help of=
 CC mechanism. Thus, in addition to Loss of Continuity defect, there must be=
 definition of Mis-connection defect. It could be BFD, CCM/ETH-CC or else (t=
hough not sure whether there=E2=80=99s anything =E2=80=9Celse=E2=80=9D).
> =20
> [Qin] Yes, CC and CV can be complementary. We need to generalize these ter=
ms and apply them to various technologies.
> =20
>                 Regards,
>                                 Greg
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=BB=
=A3=E8=A1=A8 Qin Wu
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8825=E6=97=A5 1=
6:06
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [OPSAWG] Strong Technology Dependency
> =20
> Hi, Mohamed:
> Thanks for details review to problem statement draft
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00
> and update I sent to you.
> =20
> Regarding strong technology dependency issue,
> Section 4.2 gives an address scheme  example to explain why the existing O=
AM mechanism has strong
> Technology as follows:
> =E2=80=9C
> Addressing scheme is a good example for an issue
> that has a high price for being non-generic.  Ping of IPv4 and IPv6
> looks different in the addressing scheme as well in the ICMP
> indication field, but they have the same OAM functionalities.
> =E2=80=9D
> You asked to clarify the exact point of this paragraph.
> I think what this paragraph said is
> For IP ping, IPv4 Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol [RFC4443] u=
se different IP technology but share the same OAM function.
> =20
> But I agree with you address scheme is not a typical example for strong te=
chnology dependency.
> I think the typical example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using di=
fferent network technology but share the same OAM
> functionality, i.e., Path Discovery.  Another example is ICMP,BFD,LSP Ping=
 and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology but share
> the same functionality, i.e., continuity check. =20
> =20
> The following figure shows common OAM functionalities shared by various ex=
isting OAM protocols.
>    |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |Continuity |  Connectivity|    Path      | Performance|
>    |        |  Check    |  Verification|  Discovery   | Monitoring |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | ICMP   |           |   Echo(Ping) |  Traceroute  |            |
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | BFD    |  BFD      |   BFD Echo   |              |            |
>    |        | Control   |              |              |            |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    | LSP    |           |              |              | - Delay    |
>    | Ping   |           |   Ping       |  Traceroute  | - Packet   |
>    |        |           |              |              |    Loss    |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    | IPPM   |           |              |              |            |
>    |        |           |              |              |            |
>    |--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
>    | MPLS-TP|           |              |              |            |
>    | OAM    |  CC       |   CV         |  Traceroute  | -Delay     |
>    |        |           |              |              | -Packet    |
>    |        |           |              |              |   Loss     |
>    +--------+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+
> =20
> Hope this clarifies.
> =20
> Regards!
> -Qin
> =20
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com [mailto:mohamed.=
boucadair@orange.com]=20
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8824=E6=97=A5 2=
2:13
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Unified oam BOF proposal request in IETF 90
> =20
> Hi Qin,
> =20
> Please find attached a first set of comments.
> =20
> Cheers,
> Med
> _______________________________________________
> Time mailing list
> Time@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time
> =20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Hi Greg,</div><div><br></div><div>That=
 would be ideal. Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>Sam<br><br>Sent from my iP=
ad</div><div><br>On Jul 1, 2014, at 11:02 PM, Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com">gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Sam,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I=E2=80=99ll look into whet=
her filing Errata is the best path.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p=
>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Sam Aldrin [=
<a href=3D"mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com">mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 01, 2014 10:46 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gregory Mirsky<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Qin Wu; <a href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">time@ietf.org</a>; <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">opsawg@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Time] Strong Technology Dependency<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Greg,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">response inline.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 1, 2014, at 10:31 PM, Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com">gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Sam,</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I don=E2=80=99t agree with a=
ll points of RFC 7276, in particular its use of Connectivity Verification fo=
r connectionless networks.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Well, if RFC7276 defined terms incorrectly, it should=
 be fixed, rather than re-defining the meaning here. Else we will create con=
fusion with multiple meanings and interpretations.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I believe that in connectio=
nless network only Continuity Check could be realized. Tools like ICMP and L=
SP ping verify not connection but correlation between
 control plane and data plane. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I don=E2=80=99t think you can equate LSP ping with IC=
MP. And I don=E2=80=99t agree that LSP ping only verifies CP to DP. For ex: R=
FC4379 response codes 4, 5, 9 etc do not correlate CP to DP, rather verify D=
P. Does that make it connection verification?
 As per RFC7276, answer is yes.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">To use CV to characterize t=
hem, IMO, confuses discussion and, I believe, we had it sorted during MPLS-T=
P work.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">At least I am not confused if I use the existing defi=
nition of RFC7276. :D<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-sam<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; Greg</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-co=
nverted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Sam
 Aldrin [<a href=3D"mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com">mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.c=
om</a>]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, July=
 01, 2014 7:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory Mirsky<=
br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Qin Wu; <a href=
=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">
time@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">opsawg@ietf.org</a><br=
>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [Time]=
 Strong Technology Dependency</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg and Qin,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Couldn=E2=80=99t follow the thread to its entirety du=
e to various inline questions and responses.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Is the confusion due to lack of right term to define O=
AM function(s) OR the existing OAM functions defined are not sufficient enou=
gh?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe RFC7276 identified comprehensively. Do you t=
hink something missing?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">-sam<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:38 PM, Gregory Mirsky &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com"><span style=3D"color:purple">gregor=
y.mirsky@ericsson.com</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Hi Qin,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">if proactive continuity check viewed as not sufficient and there=E2=80=99s=
 a requirement to do proactive connectivity verification. But that,
 IMO, will move us into more narrow segment of use cases, as we=E2=80=99ve l=
earned from MPLS-TP. On-demand OAM tools would not require new definitions a=
nd can be usd for troubleshooting as-is, IMO.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-co=
nverted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Qin
 Wu [<a href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com"><span style=3D"color:purple">mail=
to:bill.wu@huawei.com</span></a>]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Tuesday, July=
 01, 2014 7:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory Mirsky;=
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:time@ie=
tf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span class=3D=
"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org"><spa=
n style=3D"color:purple">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong=
 Technology Dependency</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Good point.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">So what you propose seems like we should integrate BFD with IP technology a=
nd accommodate the definitions (e.g.,</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#00B050">&nbsp;=
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot=
;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">continuity
 defect, Misconnection Defect, defect entry , defect exit) used in RFC6428 w=
hich is earlier applied to MPLS-TP to IP encapsulation.</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Am my understanding correct?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Regards!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">-Qin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</spa=
n></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><sp=
an class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:SimSun">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:S=
imSun">Gregory
 Mirsky [<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com"><span style=3D"color=
:purple">mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</span></a>]<span class=3D"apple-=
converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span></b><=
b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span clas=
s=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimS=
un">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">=
2014</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun=
;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E5=B9=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:SimSun">7</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E6=9C=88</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">2</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E6=97=A5</s=
pan><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:SimSun">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:SimSun">7:32<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span class=3D"appl=
e-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">&nbsp=
;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">Qin
 Wu;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:tim=
e@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span clas=
s=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">=
<span style=3D"color:purple">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span></b><b><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;</span><=
/span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">RE:
 Strong Technology Dependency</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Hi Qin,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">more in-lininess with the GIM2&gt;&gt; tag in dramatic red.</span><o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-co=
nverted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Qin
 Wu [<a href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com"><span style=3D"color:purple">mail=
to:bill.wu@huawei.com</span></a>]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, June 3=
0, 2014 8:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory Mirsky;=
<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:time@ie=
tf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span class=3D=
"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org"><spa=
n style=3D"color:purple">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong=
 Technology Dependency</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Hi, Greg:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</spa=
n></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><sp=
an class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:SimSun">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:S=
imSun">Gregory
 Mirsky [<a href=3D"mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com"><span style=3D"color=
:purple">mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com</span></a>]<span class=3D"apple-=
converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span></b><=
b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span clas=
s=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimS=
un">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">=
2014</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun=
;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E5=B9=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:SimSun">7</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E6=9C=88</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">1</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E6=97=A5</s=
pan><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:SimSun">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:SimSun">6:33<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span class=3D"appl=
e-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">&nbsp=
;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">Qin
 Wu;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:tim=
e@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<span clas=
s=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">=
<span style=3D"color:purple">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span></b><b><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;</span><=
/span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">RE:
 Strong Technology Dependency</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Hi Qin,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">thank you for kind consideration of my comments. Glad we=E2=80=99re agree o=
n most so we can clip them and concentrate on few remaining.</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Please find my notes in-line and tagged GIM&gt;&gt; below.</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;=
Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-co=
nverted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Qin
 Wu [<a href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com"><span style=3D"color:purple">mail=
to:bill.wu@huawei.com</span></a>]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp=
;</span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, June 3=
0, 2014 12:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mail=
to:time@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">time@ietf.org</span></a>;<spa=
n class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf=
.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Gregory Mirsky<=
br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: Strong=
 Technology Dependency</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">[=E2=80=A6]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Greg&gt;Echo(Ping) does not provide CV as IP is connectionless and has no d=
efinition of Misconnection defect.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">[Qin]:Not sure about this. RFC7276 said LSP Ping is used for end-to-end</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp; Connectivity Verification between two LERs.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Therefore I think &nbsp;IP Ping can also provide CV, what am I missing?</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#00B050=
">GIM&gt;&gt; I think of CV as proactive OAM mechanism that detects particul=
ar defect and has clear definition of defect entry and defect
 exit criteria. LSP Ping verifies consistency between control and data plane=
. That, IMO, is close to CV but without definition of defect state is not th=
e CV.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">[Qin]: Interesting point, maybe we can category CV into strict CV and loos=
e CV. I think you are talking about strict CV.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Alternatively, we may need a clear definition of CV that can be applied to=
 any technologies, i.e., technology independent terminology.</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:red">GI=
M2&gt;&gt; I think of them more from on-demand vs. proactive OAM tools POV. T=
he latter is, IMO, defect detecting tool while the former is
 useful for troubleshooting, mostly.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">[...]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Greg&gt;Not, BFD and BFD Echo do not provide CV for the same reason as for=
 ICMP =E2=80=93 do definition of Misconnection defect. Besides, BFD
 Echo doesn=E2=80=99t work for multi-hop case but only for single hop.</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">[Qin]: Not sure about this. RFC7276 said SP Ping is used for end-to-end</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp; Connectivity Verification between two LERs.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Since BFD Echo is similar to LSP Ping, I think BFD Echo also can provide C=
V.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#00B050=
">GIM&gt;&gt; Unlike LSP Ping BFD does not verify consistency of data plane v=
s. control plane. BFD could and may be used as CV if it would
 be accompanied with definition of Misconnection Defect, its Entry and Exit c=
onditions and how the defect gets signaled, i.e. through Diag field. So far a=
pplicability of the code for Mis-connectivity defect, defined in RFC 6428, n=
ot been discussed in IP or
 IP/MPLS networks but only in MPLS-TP domains.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">[Qin]: So your point is the current BFD only can integrated into MPLS-TP t=
o provide CV, am I right?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">What about RFC5885 =E2=80=9CBidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD) for t=
he Pseudowire Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV)=E2=80=9D,
 can I understand it as BFD being integrated with PW to provide CV?</span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:red">GI=
M2&gt;&gt; Not only in context of MPLS-TP. In fact, BFD does ensures, as Huu=
b illustrated, that the right colored wire is plugged in. But
 except for MPLS-TP mis-connectivity is not being treated as a defect. the m=
issing part =E2=80=93 definition of mis-connectivity defect entry and exit c=
onditions in case of IP encapsulation of BFD control packet. Perhaps for RFC=
s 5881, 5883, 5884 definition given in
 RFC 6428 may be used as foundation but must be adopted to IP encapsulation.=
 As for choice of terms, =E2=80=9Cconnectivity verification=E2=80=9D vs. =E2=
=80=9Ccontinuity check=E2=80=9D, &nbsp;in RFC 5885 it may be debatable wheth=
er it is CV, considering possible use of ICMP and/or LSP ping, or
 only CC.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">[=E2=80=A6]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Greg&gt;MPLS-TP provides CC through use of BFD</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Greg&gt;MPLS-TP provides CV through use of BFD and extension&nbsp; to prov=
ide Source ID.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">[Qin]: Besides using BFD, is there any other way to provide CC or CV?</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">GIM&gt;&gt; I think of CV as optional mode that may be realized with the h=
elp of CC mechanism. Thus, in addition to Loss of Continuity
 defect, there must be definition of Mis-connection defect. It could be BFD,=
 CCM/ETH-CC or else (though not sure whether there=E2=80=99s anything =E2=80=
=9Celse=E2=80=9D).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">[Qin] Yes, CC and CV can be complementary. We need to generalize these ter=
ms and apply them to various technologies.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Greg</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</spa=
n></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><sp=
an class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:SimSun">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:S=
imSun">OPSAWG
 [<a href=3D"mailto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">ma=
ilto:opsawg-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space=
">&nbsp;</span></span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8</span></b><spa=
n class=3D"apple-converted-space"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun">&nbsp;</span></b></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:SimSun">Qin
 Wu<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span></b><=
b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span clas=
s=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimS=
un">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">=
2014</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun=
;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E5=B9=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:SimSun">6</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E6=9C=88</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">25</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E6=97=A5</=
span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:SimSun">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:SimSun">16:06<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span class=3D"appl=
e-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">&nbsp=
;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun"><a href=3D=
"mailto:time@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">time@ietf.org</span></a>=
;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:opsawg=
@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">opsawg@ietf.org</span></a><br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81</span></b><b><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;</span><=
/span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun"><a href=3D"mailto:=
mohamed.boucadair@orange.com"><span style=3D"color:purple">mohamed.boucadair=
@orange.com</span></a><br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span></b><b><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;</span><=
/span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">[OPSAWG]
 Strong Technology Dependency</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Hi, Mohamed:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Thanks for details review to problem statement draft</span><o:p></o:p></p>=

<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00">=
<span style=3D"color:purple">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-mult=
i-layer-oam-00</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">and update I sent to you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Regarding strong technology dependency issue,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Section 4.2 gives an address scheme&nbsp; example to explain why the exist=
ing OAM mechanism has strong</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Technology as follows:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">=E2=80=9C</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Addressing scheme is a good exa=
mple for an issue</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">that has a high price for being=
 non-generic.&nbsp; Ping of IPv4 and IPv6</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">looks different in the addressi=
ng scheme as well in the ICMP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">indication field, but they have=
 the same OAM functionalities.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">=E2=80=9D</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">You asked to clarify the exact point of this paragraph.</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">I think what this paragraph said is</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">For IP ping, IPv4 Ping protocol [RFC792] and IPv6 ping protocol [RFC4443] u=
se different IP technology but share the same OAM function.</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">But I agree with you address scheme is not a typical example for strong te=
chnology dependency.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">I think the typical example is ICMP, LSP Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using di=
fferent network technology but share the same OAM</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">functionality, i.e., Path Discovery.&nbsp; Another example is ICMP,BFD,LSP=
 Ping and MPLS-TP OAM are using different network technology
 but share</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">the same functionality, i.e., continuity check. &nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">The following figure shows common OAM functionalities shared by various ex=
isting OAM protocols.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; |----=
----+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |Continuity |&nbsp; Connectivity|&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; Path&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Performance|</span><o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; Check&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbs=
p; Verification|&nbsp; Discovery&nbsp;&nbsp; | Monitoring |</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; +----=
----+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; | ICM=
P&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |=
&nbsp;&nbsp; Echo(Ping) |&nbsp; Traceroute&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbs=
p;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; +----=
----+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; | BFD=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; BFD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; B=
FD Echo&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Control&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; +----=
----+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; | LSP=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; | - Delay&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; | Pin=
g&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |=
&nbsp;&nbsp; Ping&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp; Traceroute&nbs=
p; | - Packet&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Loss&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; +----=
----+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; | IPP=
M&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; |----=
----+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; | MPL=
S-TP|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;|</span><o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; | OAM=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; CC&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nb=
sp; CV&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; Traceroute&nb=
sp; | -Delay&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | -Packet&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Loss&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;&nbsp; +----=
----+-----------+--------------+--------------+------------+</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Hope this clarifies.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">Regards!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">-Qin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D=
">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</spa=
n></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><sp=
an class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:SimSun">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:S=
imSun"><a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com"><span style=3D"color:=
purple">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a><span class=3D"apple-converte=
d-space">&nbsp;</span>[<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com"><span=
 style=3D"color:purple">mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</span></a>]<span=
 class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span></b><=
b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span clas=
s=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimS=
un">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">=
2014</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun=
;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E5=B9=B4</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:SimSun">6</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E6=9C=88</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">24</span><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E6=97=A5</=
span><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:SimSun">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:SimSun">22:13<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span class=3D"appl=
e-converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">&nbsp=
;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">Qin
 Wu<br>
</span><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun;=
mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN">=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span></b><b><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-convert=
ed-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">&nbsp;</span><=
/span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">RE:
 Unified oam BOF proposal request in IETF 90</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#003300">Hi Qin,</span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#003300">&nbsp;</span><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#003300">Please find attac=
hed a first set of comments.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#003300">&nbsp;</span><o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#003300">Cheers,</span><o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify"><span style=3D"font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:#003300">Med</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helv=
etica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">________________________________________=
_______<br>
Time mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Time@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">Time@ietf.org<=
/span></a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time"><span style=3D"color:=
purple">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time</span></a></span><o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>


</div></blockquote></body></html>=

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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>, "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Issue of OAM information Information gathering Gathering from Service Function
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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 07:49:30 +0000
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From nobody Thu Jul  3 01:00:32 2014
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From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com>
To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>, "opsawg@ietf.org" <opsawg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Issue of OAM information Information gathering Gathering from Service Function
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Subject: Re: [Time] Issue of OAM information Information gathering Gathering from Service Function
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From nobody Fri Jul  4 06:20:34 2014
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Update of TIME PS and Use case drafts
Thread-Index: Ac+XirQwUQt1uwT6Q5u2iI9TRXfX/w==
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 13:20:20 +0000
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Subject: [Time] Update of TIME PS and Use case drafts
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Hi,folks:
Here is a minor update to TIME problem statement and Use case drafts.
You may checkout.
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-02
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-=
01.txt
Have a nice weekend and also hope to have a nice discussion in Toronto with=
 you,:)

Regards!
-Qin

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,folks:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Here is a minor update to TIME =
problem statement and Use case drafts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">You may checkout.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-02">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft=
-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-02</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-01.txt">http://tools=
.ietf.org/html/draft-king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-01.txt</a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Have a nice weekend and also ho=
pe to have a nice discussion in Toronto with you,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-family:Wingdings">J</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
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From nobody Fri Jul  4 18:17:45 2014
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: ramki Krishnan <ramk@Brocade.com>, Jiangyuanlong <jiangyuanlong@huawei.com>, Sam Aldrin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Fault management in SFC
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References: <20140702191729.12270.32098.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CA+C0YO0D=SB0VJ+A9_V-sK1KX=Vje0rxzpEWrpiWvkChD=yCtA@mail.gmail.com> <3B0A1BED22CAD649A1B3E97BE5DDD68B5A77ADC8@szxema506-mbs.china.huawei.com> <C7634EB63EFD984A978DFB46EA5174F2C14FDB8457@HQ1-EXCH01.corp.brocade.com>
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--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8457F430nkgeml501mbschi_--


From nobody Sun Jul  6 13:41:49 2014
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From: Daniel King <daniel@olddog.co.uk>
To: mishael.wexler@huawei.com
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Subject: Re: [Time] TIME PS and Use Case drafts uploaded
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Hi Mishael,

Thanks for the suggestion and clear ASCII art example. You make a very valid
point, and something we surmised previously in the early discussions of
TIME, end-to-end services are often built using multiple layers and/or
domains.

The recently updated Use Case I-D
(http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-
01 has two updates related to your comment:

- End to End IP service carrier across two domains, one is IP/MPLS, the
second is Ethernet/MPLS.
- Service Function Chaining example, requiring continuation of OAM functions
across SFC domains, independent of the stitching technology.

We will also need to discuss the SFC case in more detail as there is an OAM
abstraction objective (capabilities, in-service status, and
troubleshooting), so that the management system may operate SFC-based
services that traverse multiple technologies.

Br, Dan.

> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Mishael
> Wexler <mishael.wexler@huawei.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Daniel/Qin,
>
> Greetings for the new use-case document.
> I would like to raise another important use-case which is actually a
> combination of two cases described in the draft.
>
> In a given network when looking end2end you will have at least one IP/MPLS
> domain and one SFC domain.
> The following use-case figure may help understanding this (sorry for the
> simple graphic J).
> The overall service is provides from the CE device to the other "end" of the
> network traversing several domains/segments.
>
> It is beneficial to be able to see the service as a whole from an OAM
> perspective and maintain the end to end chain.
> This is of course in addition to the OAM for each segment, done
> independently.
>
> IMO, we should think how to integrate the two parts or at least convey some
> information from segment to segment.
>
> Mishael
>
> ============================================================================
> ==============================================
>
> 2.4.  IP/MPLS OAM combined with L4-L7 OAM
>
> <---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> End to End Service
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------->
> <----------------------------------------IP/MPLS
> domain------------------------------------->
> <----------------------------------------SFC
> domain--------------------------------->
>
> From: Time [mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 11:22 AM
> To: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: [Time] TIME PS and Use Case drafts uploaded
>
> Hi, Folks:
> The new version of TIME PS and Use case drafts have been uploaded:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-01.txt
> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-00.tx
> t
>
> Your comments/inputs/feedback are welcome!
>
> Regards!
> -Qin
>
>


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From: LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO <luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com>
To: Daniel King <daniel@olddog.co.uk>, "mishael.wexler@huawei.com" <mishael.wexler@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [Time] TIME PS and Use Case drafts uploaded
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Daniel King <daniel@olddog.co.uk> wrote:


Hi Mishael,

Thanks for the suggestion and clear ASCII art example. You make a very vali=
d
point, and something we surmised previously in the early discussions of
TIME, end-to-end services are often built using multiple layers and/or
domains.

The recently updated Use Case I-D
(http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case=
-
01 has two updates related to your comment:

- End to End IP service carrier across two domains, one is IP/MPLS, the
second is Ethernet/MPLS.
- Service Function Chaining example, requiring continuation of OAM function=
s
across SFC domains, independent of the stitching technology.

We will also need to discuss the SFC case in more detail as there is an OAM
abstraction objective (capabilities, in-service status, and
troubleshooting), so that the management system may operate SFC-based
services that traverse multiple technologies.

Br, Dan.

> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Mishael
> Wexler <mishael.wexler@huawei.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Daniel/Qin,
>
> Greetings for the new use-case document.
> I would like to raise another important use-case which is actually a
> combination of two cases described in the draft.
>
> In a given network when looking end2end you will have at least one IP/MPL=
S
> domain and one SFC domain.
> The following use-case figure may help understanding this (sorry for the
> simple graphic J).
> The overall service is provides from the CE device to the other "end" of =
the
> network traversing several domains/segments.
>
> It is beneficial to be able to see the service as a whole from an OAM
> perspective and maintain the end to end chain.
> This is of course in addition to the OAM for each segment, done
> independently.
>
> IMO, we should think how to integrate the two parts or at least convey so=
me
> information from segment to segment.
>
> Mishael
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> 2.4.  IP/MPLS OAM combined with L4-L7 OAM
>
> <------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
> End to End Service
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
> -------------->
> <----------------------------------------IP/MPLS
> domain------------------------------------->
> <----------------------------------------SFC
> domain--------------------------------->
>
> From: Time [mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 11:22 AM
> To: time@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org
> Subject: [Time] TIME PS and Use Case drafts uploaded
>
> Hi, Folks:
> The new version of TIME PS and Use case drafts have been uploaded:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-01.txt
> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-00=
.tx
> t
>
> Your comments/inputs/feedback are welcome!
>
> Regards!
> -Qin
>
>

_______________________________________________
Time mailing list
Time@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time

________________________________

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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, ramki Krishnan <ramk@Brocade.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>, "daniel@olddog.co.uk" <daniel@olddog.co.uk>
Thread-Topic: Fault management in SFC
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Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 12:57:05 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Time] Fault management in SFC
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<body lang=3D"ZH-CN" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">The generi=
c requirements aspect of
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-krishnan-sfc-oam-req-framework@tools.ietf.org"><spa=
n style=3D"color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none">draft-krishnan-sfc-oam-req-f=
ramework@tools.ietf.org</span></a> maybe more fit into
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><a href=3D=
"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case=
-01"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;text-decoration:none">http://tools.ietf.o=
rg/html/draft-king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-01</span></a>.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">draft-king=
-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-01 did sort out some high level requi=
rements in the section 4.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">But high l=
evel requirements in draft-king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-01 are=
 not specific to SFC OAM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">They also =
can be applicable to Overlay OAM described in section 3.3 of draft-king-ops=
awg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regarding =
draft-jxc-sfc-fm-00, is it too rush to go to solution scope to discuss what=
 kind of SFC specific OAM functionalities need to be support
 and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">What SFC s=
pecific packet format looks like?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Regards!<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> sfc [ma=
ilto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B4=FA=
=B1=ED </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:=CB=CE=CC=E5">Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U=
S">7</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">5</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 3:41<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> ramki Krishnan<br>
</span><b>=B3=AD=CB=CD<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> Sam Aldrin; Jiangyuanlong; Nobo Akiya (nobo); sfc@ietf.org; draft-krishna=
n-sfc-oam-req-framework@tools.ietf.org<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> Re: [sfc] Fault management in SFC<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi, Ramki,&nbsp;Yuanlong, <o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks for bringing up these tw=
o documents! Here's my initial observations:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">draft-krishnan-sfc-oam-req-fram=
ework:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-=
alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">This document seems to be really thin in actual conten=
t.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Removing the introduction, acronyms, and boiler, there=
's a bit over a page of very generic very high-level requirements.<o:p></o:=
p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-=
margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">Although the title says &quot;SFC OAM Requirements and=
 Framework&quot;, I do not see text supporting a framework.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></li></ul>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">draft-jxc-sfc-fm-00:<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-=
alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">I am concerned with the creation of a new OAM Protocol=
 in Section 3. SFC architectural documents have a goal of reusing OAM proto=
cols, not re-inventing.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=
=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 l=
fo2">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">It's not clear of the value of defining a TLV structur=
e when there's no Types. In other words, why draw TLV ASCII diagrams when t=
he requirements and gap analysis are not clear?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:a=
uto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">The document says things like &quot;BFD can also be us=
ed as a tool of proactive CC &amp; CV in SFC.&quot;, but then goes on into =
drawing packets...<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I agree this can be a topic for=
 discussions in Toronto.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Carlos.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Jul 4, 2014, at 9:48 AM, ram=
ki Krishnan &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ramk@Brocade.com">ramk@Brocade.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Sam, Yu=
anlong, All,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">We uploade=
d a document on the SFC OAM topic yesterday &nbsp;=A8C this includes requir=
ements besides framework. Given the importance of this topic, guess
 many of us were working on this in parallel. We should probably get togeth=
er in Toronto to take the appropriate next steps.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><a href=3D=
"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-krishnan-sfc-oam-req-framework/"><s=
pan style=3D"color:purple">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-krishnan-=
sfc-oam-req-framework/</span></a></span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-=
family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks,</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Ramki</spa=
n><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span></s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">sfc
 [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">mail=
to:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&n=
bsp;</span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</spa=
n></b>Jiangyuanlong<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday, July=
 04, 2014 1:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Sam Aldrin;<sp=
an class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.=
org"><span style=3D"color:purple">sfc@ietf.org</span></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Carlos Pignata=
ro (cpignata); Nobo Akiya (nobo)<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[sfc] Fau=
lt management in SFC</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=
=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hi Sam and all,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=A1=AF<=
/span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">m
 glad to see your draft on SFC OAM framework, it is a very basic and import=
ant piece of work in my view.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">We have also uploaded an=
 I-D discussing fault management in SFC, does anyone of you have an interes=
t in this kind of work?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">The link to this I-D is:=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org/html/draft-jxc-sfc-fm-00"><span style=3D"color:purple">http://tool=
s.ietf.org/html/draft-jxc-sfc-fm-00</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Your opinions are greatl=
y appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideog=
raph"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Yuanlong</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span></s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma=
&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">sfc
 [<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">mail=
to:sfc-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&n=
bsp;</span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</spa=
n></b>Sam Aldrin<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, Ju=
ly 03, 2014 3:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mai=
lto:sfc@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">sfc@ietf.org</span></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Carlos Pignata=
ro (cpignata); Nobo Akiya (nobo)<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[sfc] Fwd=
: New Version Notification for draft-aldrin-sfc-oam-framework-00.txt</span>=
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">We have submitted a new draft for SFC OAM framework.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">Kindly review the ID and provide your comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=
=E5">cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">-sam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" =
style=3D"font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">---------- Forwarded message ----------<=
br>
From: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:=
purple">internet-drafts@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<br>
Date: Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 12:17 PM<br>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-aldrin-sfc-oam-framework-00.txt=
<br>
To: Nobo Akiya &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nobo@cisco.com"><span style=3D"color:p=
urple">nobo@cisco.com</span></a>&gt;, &quot;Sam K. Aldrin&quot; &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:aldrin.ietf@gmail.com"><span style=3D"color:purple">aldrin.ietf@=
gmail.com</span></a>&gt;, Carlos Pignataro &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cpignata@c=
isco.com"><span style=3D"color:purple">cpignata@cisco.com</span></a>&gt;<br=
>
<br>
<br>
<br>
A new version of I-D, draft-aldrin-sfc-oam-framework-00.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Sam K. Aldrin and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; draft-aldrin-sfc-oam-framework<br>
Revision: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 00<br>
Title: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Service Function Chaining Operatio=
ns, Administration and Maintenance Framework<br>
Document date: &nbsp;2014-07-02<br>
Group: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Individual Submission<br>
Pages: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;11<br>
URL: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.ietf.or=
g/internet-drafts/draft-aldrin-sfc-oam-framework-00.txt" target=3D"_blank">=
<span style=3D"color:purple">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-aldr=
in-sfc-oam-framework-00.txt</span></a><br>
Status: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&n=
bsp;</span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-aldrin-sfc-oam=
-framework/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:purple">https://datatra=
cker.ietf.org/doc/draft-aldrin-sfc-oam-framework/</span></a><br>
Htmlized: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;<=
/span><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-aldrin-sfc-oam-framework-=
00" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:purple">http://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-aldrin-sfc-oam-framework-00</span></a><br>
<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;This document provides reference framework for Operations,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;Administration and Maintenance (OAM) of Service Function Chain=
ing<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp;(SFC).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at<span class=3D"apple-co=
nverted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/" target=3D"_b=
lank"><span style=3D"color:purple">tools.ietf.org</span></a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" <tsenevir@cisco.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: YANG models for OAM
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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 12:07:02 +0000
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Hi, Tissa:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">There are many options for SFC OAM, BFD extension, Generic Header=
 extension, Generic TLV extension.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Unlike other existing OAM protocols, mechanisms and tools, SFC ne=
ed to address OAM for the technology that is above layer 3.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">SFC haven=A1=AFt developed OAM protocol yet at the top of layer 3=
.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Before they developing OAM protocol, they need to figure out whet=
her they need to develop technology dependent OAM protocol,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Or technology independent OAM protocol since SFC OAM and Overlay =
OAM share a lot of similarities(e.g., both can use overlay technology to st=
itch a set of overlay node or service
 node to form the end to end path). Why not build one protocol to support b=
oth?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">That=A1=AFs why we bring up transport independent OAM covering va=
rious heterogeneous network technologies and propose to consolidate OAM in =
both<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Management plane and data plane.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-02">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft=
-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-02</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-01.txt">http://tools=
.ietf.org/html/draft-king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-01.txt</a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Regarding flow-entropy, why not reuse entropy mechanisms in the e=
xisting underlying transport. How is flow entropy different from ECMP choic=
e you proposed in the draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">If my understanding is correct, IEEE 802.1ag only support Equal C=
ost Tree (ECT) mechanism instead of ECMP, IEEE802.1Qbp support ECMP,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Are you proposing to combine ECT supported by IEEE 802.1ag with E=
CMP supported by IEEE 802.1Qbp and use them together at the same time in th=
e same network?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Also BFD and IEEE 802.1ag CFM share a lot of commonality, e.g., C=
CM-interval, BFD interval. If we integrate them together, we really need to=
 think about how to integrate them together
 in the management plane. Is there any common component we can define for b=
oth? How we define these component and make them more extensible.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> Tissa S=
enevirathne (tsenevir) [mailto:tsenevir@cisco.com]
<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U=
S">6</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">30</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 0:20<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> Qin Wu; time@ietf.org<br>
</span><b>=B3=AD=CB=CD<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> netmod@ietf.org; nvo3@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org; l2vpn@ietf.org; opsawg@ie=
tf.org<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> RE: YANG models for OAM<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Qin<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">There a=
re several way this is applicable to SFC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">=
<span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New=
 Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"=
>SFC is underlayer independent , which means it can have all sorts of encap=
 types underneath, the model presented in tissa-netmod-oam, address exactly=
 that issue. Instead of re-inventing
 and re-implementing various different OAM the draft propose to integrate t=
hem at the management layer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">=
<span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New=
 Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"=
>In this draft we define a flow-entropy as an opaque element that each of t=
he technology type can specify and include. If we look at draft-quinn-sfc-n=
sh-02.txt, it define a block that specifies
 SFC. SFC version of YANG &nbsp;can specify this as part of its flow entrop=
y. The beauty is that it is all up to the technology to specify that (size =
and shape is technology dependent) and base model is still intact.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">With th=
e above in mind , can you please review draft-tissa-netmod-oam and see it i=
s flexible and extensible enough to for the purpose. If things are missing =
we can add and extend.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I have =
requested netmod WG chairs for a presentation slot for further discussion o=
f the draft. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> Qin Wu [<a href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com">mailto:=
bill.wu@huawei.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir); <a href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">=
time@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:netmod@ietf.org">netmod@ietf.org</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">
nvo3@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:trill@ietf.org">trill@ietf.org</a>; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">
l2vpn@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">opsawg@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: YANG models for OAM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Hi, Tissa:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Thanks for initiating discussion on this topic.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Unified OAM for multi-Layer network is a good idea to me.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00 we proposed in opsawg laid out=
 the an initial description of the problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">The question to</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">draft-=
tissa-netmod-oam is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">I am wondering how this generic Yang Model can be applied to SFC =
environment?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">How do you support the case where two endpoints support different=
 layer OAM or doesn=A1=AFt support any OAM at that layer.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">BTW: I have cc=A1=AFed time mailing list since I believe this mai=
ling list is purposed to look for generic and integrated OAM covering vario=
us heterogeneous networking technologies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> netmod =
[<a href=3D"mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org<=
/a>]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B4=FA=
=B1=ED </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:=CB=CE=CC=E5">Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U=
S">6</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">11</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 3:03<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:netmod@ietf.org">
netmod@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">nvo3@ietf.org</a>; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:trill@ietf.org">
trill@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">l2vpn@ietf.org</a>; <=
a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">
opsawg@ietf.org</a><br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> [netmod] YANG models for OAM<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">All<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We have published YANG model fo=
r OAM. #1 draft below place the generic framework for OAM, that can be augm=
ented for different technologies. #2 and #3 are application of the concept =
to NVO3 and TRILL,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-netmod-oam/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-tissa-netmod-oam/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-nvo3-yang-oam/">http://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/draft-tissa-nvo3-yang-oam/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">3.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-trill-yang-oam/">http://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-tissa-trill-yang-oam/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please review and share your co=
mments<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Tissa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84580501nkgeml501mbschi_--


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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" <tsenevir@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-tissa-netmod-oam-01
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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 13:09:46 +0000
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DQoNCg==


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From: "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" <tsenevir@cisco.com>
To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: YANG models for OAM
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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 14:47:59 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Time] YANG models for OAM
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Qin<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">May be a point is miss=
ed here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thought SFC ca=
n go up and down on layers, what controls that behavior ? Is=A1=AFnt it the=
 Service header ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Is the OAM com=
es down to fault isolation, verification , monitoring etc for the specified=
 SH ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Like discussed before =
(many times) exact en-cap is less important what is important is to have a =
model that define OAM framework and scope. CFM to my opinion do an excellen=
t job in defining what is needed. Hence
 the choice of a similar model for the YANG Model.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">You have noted BFD and=
 CFM are similar because they have similar set of timers. That is a wrong c=
omparison. Have similar set of timers does not make two protocols the same.=
 What makes them is what framework they
 follows. &nbsp;We have used key word CFM here loosely. Though we borrow lo=
ts of concepts form CFM there are things that needed to be revisited.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I have requested prese=
ntation slots in nvo3 and NETMOD working groups and will be going through i=
n details how each one of the technologies map to YANG model presented here=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Qin Wu [=
mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 08, 2014 5:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir); time@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> netmod@ietf.org; nvo3@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org; l2vpn@ietf.org; =
opsawg@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: YANG models for OAM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Hi, T=
issa:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">There=
 are many options for SFC OAM, BFD extension, Generic Header extension, Gen=
eric TLV extension.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Unlik=
e other existing OAM protocols, mechanisms and tools, SFC need to address O=
AM for the technology that is above layer 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">SFC h=
aven=A1=AFt developed OAM protocol yet at the top of layer 3.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Befor=
e they developing OAM protocol, they need to figure out whether they need t=
o develop technology dependent OAM protocol,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Or te=
chnology independent OAM protocol since SFC OAM and Overlay OAM share a lot=
 of similarities(e.g., both can use overlay technology to stitch a set of o=
verlay node or service node to form
 the end to end path). Why not build one protocol to support both?<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">That=
=A1=AFs why we bring up transport independent OAM covering various heteroge=
neous network technologies and propose to consolidate OAM in both<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Manag=
ement plane and data plane.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsaw=
g-multi-layer-oam-02">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-laye=
r-oam-02</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-ops=
awg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-01.txt">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-=
king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-01.txt</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Regar=
ding flow-entropy, why not reuse entropy mechanisms in the existing underly=
ing transport. How is flow entropy different from ECMP choice you proposed =
in the draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">If my=
 understanding is correct, IEEE 802.1ag only support Equal Cost Tree (ECT) =
mechanism instead of ECMP, IEEE802.1Qbp support ECMP,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Are y=
ou proposing to combine ECT supported by IEEE 802.1ag with ECMP supported b=
y IEEE 802.1Qbp and use them together at the same time in the same network?=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Also =
BFD and IEEE 802.1ag CFM share a lot of commonality, e.g., CCM-interval, BF=
D interval. If we integrate them together, we really need to think about ho=
w to integrate them together in the
 management plane. Is there any common component we can define for both? Ho=
w we define these component and make them more extensible.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Regar=
ds!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">-Qin<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:SimSun">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:SimSun"> Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir) [<a href=3D"mailto:tsenevir@=
cisco.com">mailto:tsenevir@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>:</b> 2014<span lang=
=3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>30<span lang=3D"=
ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 0:20<br>
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>:</b> Qin Wu; <a href=3D"m=
ailto:time@ietf.org">time@ietf.org</a><br>
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span>:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:netmod@i=
etf.org">netmod@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">nvo3@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:trill=
@ietf.org">
trill@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">l2vpn@ietf.org</a>; <=
a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">
opsawg@ietf.org</a><br>
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>:</b> RE: YANG models for OAM<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Qin<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There are several way =
this is applicable to SFC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">SFC is underla=
yer independent , which means it can have all sorts of encap types undernea=
th, the model presented in tissa-netmod-oam, address exactly that issue. In=
stead of re-inventing and re-implementing
 various different OAM the draft propose to integrate them at the managemen=
t layer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">In this draft =
we define a flow-entropy as an opaque element that each of the technology t=
ype can specify and include. If we look at draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-02.txt, it d=
efine a block that specifies SFC.
 SFC version of YANG &nbsp;can specify this as part of its flow entropy. Th=
e beauty is that it is all up to the technology to specify that (size and s=
hape is technology dependent) and base model is still intact.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">With the above in mind=
 , can you please review draft-tissa-netmod-oam and see it is flexible and =
extensible enough to for the purpose. If things are missing we can add and =
extend.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I have requested netmo=
d WG chairs for a presentation slot for further discussion of the draft. &n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Qin Wu [=
<a href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir); <a href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">=
time@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:netmod@ietf.org">netmod@ietf.org</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">
nvo3@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:trill@ietf.org">trill@ietf.org</a>; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">
l2vpn@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">opsawg@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: YANG models for OAM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Hi, T=
issa:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Thank=
s for initiating discussion on this topic.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Unifi=
ed OAM for multi-Layer network is a good idea to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">draft=
-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00 we proposed in opsawg laid out the an initial=
 description of the problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">The q=
uestion to</span>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">draft-tissa-netmod-oam is<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">I am =
wondering how this generic Yang Model can be applied to SFC environment?<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">How d=
o you support the case where two endpoints support different layer OAM or d=
oesn=A1=AFt support any OAM at that layer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">BTW: =
I have cc=A1=AFed time mailing list since I believe this mailing list is pu=
rposed to look for generic and integrated OAM covering various heterogeneou=
s networking technologies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Regar=
ds!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">-Qin<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:SimSun">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:SimSun"> netmod [<a href=3D"mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:=
netmod-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=FA=B1=ED </span></b>Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevi=
r)<br>
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>:</b> 2014<span lang=
=3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>11<span lang=3D"=
ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 3:03<br>
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ne=
tmod@ietf.org">netmod@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">nvo3@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:trill=
@ietf.org">
trill@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">l2vpn@ietf.org</a>; <=
a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">
opsawg@ietf.org</a><br>
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>:</b> [netmod] YANG models for O=
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">All<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We have published YANG model for OAM. #1 draft below=
 place the generic framework for OAM, that can be augmented for different t=
echnologies. #2 and #3 are application of the concept to NVO3 and TRILL,<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ti=
ssa-netmod-oam/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-netmod-oam/</a=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ti=
ssa-nvo3-yang-oam/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-nvo3-yang-o=
am/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ti=
ssa-trill-yang-oam/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-trill-yang=
-oam/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please review and share your comments<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tissa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_FBEA3E19AA24F847BA3AE74E2FE193562EEC5C77xmbrcdx08ciscoc_--


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From: "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" <tsenevir@cisco.com>
To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: YANG models for OAM
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#43;SFC working group=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> nvo3 [ma=
ilto:nvo3-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 08, 2014 7:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Qin Wu; time@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> l2vpn@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; nvo3@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org;=
 trill@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Qin<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">May be a point is miss=
ed here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thought SFC ca=
n go up and down on layers, what controls that behavior ? Is=A1=AFnt it the=
 Service header ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Is the OAM com=
es down to fault isolation, verification , monitoring etc for the specified=
 SH ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Like discussed before =
(many times) exact en-cap is less important what is important is to have a =
model that define OAM framework and scope. CFM to my opinion do an excellen=
t job in defining what is needed. Hence
 the choice of a similar model for the YANG Model.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">You have noted BFD and=
 CFM are similar because they have similar set of timers. That is a wrong c=
omparison. Have similar set of timers does not make two protocols the same.=
 What makes them is what framework they
 follows. &nbsp;We have used key word CFM here loosely. Though we borrow lo=
ts of concepts form CFM there are things that needed to be revisited.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I have requested prese=
ntation slots in nvo3 and NETMOD working groups and will be going through i=
n details how each one of the technologies map to YANG model presented here=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Qin Wu [=
<a href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 08, 2014 5:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir); <a href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">=
time@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:netmod@ietf.org">netmod@ietf.org</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">
nvo3@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:trill@ietf.org">trill@ietf.org</a>; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">
l2vpn@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">opsawg@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: YANG models for OAM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Hi, T=
issa:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">There=
 are many options for SFC OAM, BFD extension, Generic Header extension, Gen=
eric TLV extension.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Unlik=
e other existing OAM protocols, mechanisms and tools, SFC need to address O=
AM for the technology that is above layer 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">SFC h=
aven=A1=AFt developed OAM protocol yet at the top of layer 3.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Befor=
e they developing OAM protocol, they need to figure out whether they need t=
o develop technology dependent OAM protocol,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Or te=
chnology independent OAM protocol since SFC OAM and Overlay OAM share a lot=
 of similarities(e.g., both can use overlay technology to stitch a set of o=
verlay node or service node to form
 the end to end path). Why not build one protocol to support both?<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">That=
=A1=AFs why we bring up transport independent OAM covering various heteroge=
neous network technologies and propose to consolidate OAM in both<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Manag=
ement plane and data plane.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsaw=
g-multi-layer-oam-02">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-laye=
r-oam-02</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-king-ops=
awg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-01.txt">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-=
king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-01.txt</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Regar=
ding flow-entropy, why not reuse entropy mechanisms in the existing underly=
ing transport. How is flow entropy different from ECMP choice you proposed =
in the draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">If my=
 understanding is correct, IEEE 802.1ag only support Equal Cost Tree (ECT) =
mechanism instead of ECMP, IEEE802.1Qbp support ECMP,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Are y=
ou proposing to combine ECT supported by IEEE 802.1ag with ECMP supported b=
y IEEE 802.1Qbp and use them together at the same time in the same network?=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Also =
BFD and IEEE 802.1ag CFM share a lot of commonality, e.g., CCM-interval, BF=
D interval. If we integrate them together, we really need to think about ho=
w to integrate them together in the
 management plane. Is there any common component we can define for both? Ho=
w we define these component and make them more extensible.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Regar=
ds!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">-Qin<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:SimSun">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:SimSun"> Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir) [<a href=3D"mailto:tsenevir@=
cisco.com">mailto:tsenevir@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>:</b> 2014<span lang=
=3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>30<span lang=3D"=
ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 0:20<br>
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>:</b> Qin Wu; <a href=3D"m=
ailto:time@ietf.org">time@ietf.org</a><br>
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B3=AD=CB=CD</span>:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:netmod@i=
etf.org">netmod@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">nvo3@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:trill=
@ietf.org">
trill@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">l2vpn@ietf.org</a>; <=
a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">
opsawg@ietf.org</a><br>
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>:</b> RE: YANG models for OAM<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Qin<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">There are several way =
this is applicable to SFC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">SFC is underla=
yer independent , which means it can have all sorts of encap types undernea=
th, the model presented in tissa-netmod-oam, address exactly that issue. In=
stead of re-inventing and re-implementing
 various different OAM the draft propose to integrate them at the managemen=
t layer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">In this draft =
we define a flow-entropy as an opaque element that each of the technology t=
ype can specify and include. If we look at draft-quinn-sfc-nsh-02.txt, it d=
efine a block that specifies SFC.
 SFC version of YANG &nbsp;can specify this as part of its flow entropy. Th=
e beauty is that it is all up to the technology to specify that (size and s=
hape is technology dependent) and base model is still intact.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">With the above in mind=
 , can you please review draft-tissa-netmod-oam and see it is flexible and =
extensible enough to for the purpose. If things are missing we can add and =
extend.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I have requested netmo=
d WG chairs for a presentation slot for further discussion of the draft. &n=
bsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Qin Wu [=
<a href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com">mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir); <a href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">=
time@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:netmod@ietf.org">netmod@ietf.org</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">
nvo3@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:trill@ietf.org">trill@ietf.org</a>; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">
l2vpn@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">opsawg@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: YANG models for OAM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Hi, T=
issa:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Thank=
s for initiating discussion on this topic.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Unifi=
ed OAM for multi-Layer network is a good idea to me.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">draft=
-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00 we proposed in opsawg laid out the an initial=
 description of the problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">The q=
uestion to</span>
<span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">draft-tissa-netmod-oam is<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">I am =
wondering how this generic Yang Model can be applied to SFC environment?<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">How d=
o you support the case where two endpoints support different layer OAM or d=
oesn=A1=AFt support any OAM at that layer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">BTW: =
I have cc=A1=AFed time mailing list since I believe this mailing list is pu=
rposed to look for generic and integrated OAM covering various heterogeneou=
s networking technologies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">Regar=
ds!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">-Qin<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:SimSun">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB</span></b><b><span style=3D"font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:SimSun">:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:SimSun"> netmod [<a href=3D"mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:=
netmod-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B4=FA=B1=ED </span></b>Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevi=
r)<br>
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4</span>:</b> 2014<span lang=
=3D"ZH-CN">=C4=EA</span>6<span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D4=C2</span>11<span lang=3D"=
ZH-CN">=C8=D5</span> 3:03<br>
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB</span>:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ne=
tmod@ietf.org">netmod@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">nvo3@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:trill=
@ietf.org">
trill@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">l2vpn@ietf.org</a>; <=
a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">
opsawg@ietf.org</a><br>
<b><span lang=3D"ZH-CN">=D6=F7=CC=E2</span>:</b> [netmod] YANG models for O=
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">All<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We have published YANG model for OAM. #1 draft below=
 place the generic framework for OAM, that can be augmented for different t=
echnologies. #2 and #3 are application of the concept to NVO3 and TRILL,<o:=
p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo6"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ti=
ssa-netmod-oam/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-netmod-oam/</a=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo6"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ti=
ssa-nvo3-yang-oam/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-nvo3-yang-o=
am/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo6"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]><a href=3D"http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ti=
ssa-trill-yang-oam/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-trill-yang=
-oam/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please review and share your comments<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tissa<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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From nobody Tue Jul  8 18:28:23 2014
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" <tsenevir@cisco.com>, "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: YANG models for OAM
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Subject: Re: [Time] YANG models for OAM
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Hi, Tissa:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">I don=A1=AFt think the idea you proposed have any inconsistency w=
ith what we are proposing in draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-02. But looks =
like we are debating something,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.5pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">You and us are both looking for OAM consolidation in the manageme=
nt, in addition, we are looking for OAM consolidation in the data plane.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Please see my reply inline below.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> Tissa S=
enevirathne (tsenevir) [mailto:tsenevir@cisco.com]
<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U=
S">7</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">8</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 22:48<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> Qin Wu; time@ietf.org<br>
</span><b>=B3=AD=CB=CD<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> netmod@ietf.org; nvo3@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org; l2vpn@ietf.org; opsawg@ie=
tf.org<br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> RE: YANG models for OAM<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Qin<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">May be =
a point is missed here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l2 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">=
<span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New=
 Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"=
>Thought SFC can go up and down on layers, what controls that behavior ? Is=
=A1=AFnt it the Service header ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">[Qin]: It is possible, but who control that behavior, it is the m=
anagement plane, the management plane need to interact with different layer=
 OAM in the data plane or
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Management plane need to interact with OAM protocol that is defin=
ed for SFC at the top of layer 3.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l2 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">=
<span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New=
 Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"=
>Is the OAM comes down to fault isolation, verification , monitoring etc fo=
r the specified SH ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">[Qin]: =
Not clear whether SH is the only approach. OAM information can be put into =
BDF protocol or Generic TLV as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Like di=
scussed before (many times) exact en-cap is less important what is importan=
t is to have a model that define OAM framework and scope. CFM to my opinion=
 do an excellent job in defining what
 is needed. Hence the choice of a similar model for the YANG Model.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">[Qin]: We are on the same page, but isn=A1=AFt more straightforwa=
rd and reasonable to define Generic OAM framework separated from Yang Data =
model for Generic OAM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">That=A1=AFs what we like to propose in the draft-ww-opsawg-multi-=
layer-oam-02. Developing separate Architecture and Framework from Transport=
 Independent OAM Problem statement draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Generic OAM framework should also allow more interaction between =
data plane and management plane and more interworking between different lay=
er OAM protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">You hav=
e noted BFD and CFM are similar because they have similar set of timers. Th=
at is a wrong comparison. Have similar set of timers does not make two prot=
ocols the same.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">[Qin]: That=A1=AFs not what we are proposing, we hope in the mana=
gement plane there is some common components or elements that can be used b=
y not only BFD, but also CFM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">What ma=
kes them is what framework they follows. &nbsp;We have used key word CFM he=
re loosely. Though we borrow lots of concepts form CFM there are things tha=
t needed to be revisited.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I have =
requested presentation slots in nvo3 and NETMOD working groups and will be =
going through in details how each one of the technologies map to YANG model=
 presented here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">[Qin]: That would be a very good survey, in my opinion, before go=
ing there, isn=A1=AFt more nice to have a gap analysis document to<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">a .Identify technology dependent and independent component<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">b. &nbsp;analyze and understand the different motivations and opp=
ortunities for optimisation of OAM in different technology networks,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">and the trade-offs between those optimisations and the overall ad=
vantage of a generic OAM mechanism.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> Qin Wu [<a href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com">mailto:=
bill.wu@huawei.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 08, 2014 5:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir); <a href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">=
time@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:netmod@ietf.org">netmod@ietf.org</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">
nvo3@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:trill@ietf.org">trill@ietf.org</a>; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">
l2vpn@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">opsawg@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: YANG models for OAM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Hi, Tissa:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">There are many options for SFC OAM, BFD extension, Generic Header=
 extension, Generic TLV extension.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Unlike other existing OAM protocols, mechanisms and tools, SFC ne=
ed to address OAM for the technology that is above layer 3.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">SFC haven=A1=AFt developed OAM protocol yet at the top of layer 3=
.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Before they developing OAM protocol, they need to figure out whet=
her they need to develop technology dependent OAM protocol,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Or technology independent OAM protocol since SFC OAM and Overlay =
OAM share a lot of similarities(e.g., both can use overlay technology to st=
itch a set of overlay node or service
 node to form the end to end path). Why not build one protocol to support b=
oth?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">That=A1=AFs why we bring up transport independent OAM covering va=
rious heterogeneous network technologies and propose to consolidate OAM in =
both<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Management plane and data plane.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-02">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft=
-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-02</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-01.txt">http://tools=
.ietf.org/html/draft-king-opsawg-time-multi-layer-oam-use-case-01.txt</a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Regarding flow-entropy, why not reuse entropy mechanisms in the e=
xisting underlying transport. How is flow entropy different from ECMP choic=
e you proposed in the draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">If my understanding is correct, IEEE 802.1ag only support Equal C=
ost Tree (ECT) mechanism instead of ECMP, IEEE802.1Qbp support ECMP,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Are you proposing to combine ECT supported by IEEE 802.1ag with E=
CMP supported by IEEE 802.1Qbp and use them together at the same time in th=
e same network?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Also BFD and IEEE 802.1ag CFM share a lot of commonality, e.g., C=
CM-interval, BFD interval. If we integrate them together, we really need to=
 think about how to integrate them together
 in the management plane. Is there any common component we can define for b=
oth? How we define these component and make them more extensible.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> Tissa S=
enevirathne (tsenevir) [<a href=3D"mailto:tsenevir@cisco.com">mailto:tsenev=
ir@cisco.com</a>]
<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U=
S">6</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">30</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 0:20<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> Qin Wu; <a href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">
time@ietf.org</a><br>
</span><b>=B3=AD=CB=CD<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> <a href=3D"mailto:netmod@ietf.org">
netmod@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">nvo3@ietf.org</a>; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:trill@ietf.org">
trill@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">l2vpn@ietf.org</a>; <=
a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">
opsawg@ietf.org</a><br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> RE: YANG models for OAM<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Qin<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">There a=
re several way this is applicable to SFC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">=
<span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New=
 Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"=
>SFC is underlayer independent , which means it can have all sorts of encap=
 types underneath, the model presented in tissa-netmod-oam, address exactly=
 that issue. Instead of re-inventing
 and re-implementing various different OAM the draft propose to integrate t=
hem at the management layer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">=
<span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New=
 Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"=
>In this draft we define a flow-entropy as an opaque element that each of t=
he technology type can specify and include. If we look at draft-quinn-sfc-n=
sh-02.txt, it define a block that specifies
 SFC. SFC version of YANG &nbsp;can specify this as part of its flow entrop=
y. The beauty is that it is all up to the technology to specify that (size =
and shape is technology dependent) and base model is still intact.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">With th=
e above in mind , can you please review draft-tissa-netmod-oam and see it i=
s flexible and extensible enough to for the purpose. If things are missing =
we can add and extend.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">I have =
requested netmod WG chairs for a presentation slot for further discussion o=
f the draft. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"> Qin Wu [<a href=3D"mailto:bill.wu@huawei.com">mailto:=
bill.wu@huawei.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir); <a href=3D"mailto:time@ietf.org">=
time@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:netmod@ietf.org">netmod@ietf.org</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">
nvo3@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:trill@ietf.org">trill@ietf.org</a>; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">
l2vpn@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">opsawg@ietf.org</a><=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: YANG models for OAM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Hi, Tissa:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Thanks for initiating discussion on this topic.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Unified OAM for multi-Layer network is a good idea to me.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-00 we proposed in opsawg laid out=
 the an initial description of the problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">The question to</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D">draft-=
tissa-netmod-oam is<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">I am wondering how this generic Yang Model can be applied to SFC =
environment?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">How do you support the case where two endpoints support different=
 layer OAM or doesn=A1=AFt support any OAM at that layer.<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">BTW: I have cc=A1=AFed time mailing list since I believe this mai=
ling list is purposed to look for generic and integrated OAM covering vario=
us heterogeneous networking technologies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color=
:#1F497D">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=
=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> netmod =
[<a href=3D"mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org<=
/a>]
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B4=FA=
=B1=ED </span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:=CB=CE=CC=E5">Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)<br>
</span><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=B7=A2=
=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5"> 2014</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5">=C4=EA<span lang=3D"EN-U=
S">6</span>=D4=C2<span lang=3D"EN-US">11</span>=C8=D5<span lang=3D"EN-US">
 3:03<br>
</span><b>=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"=
EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:netmod@ietf.org">
netmod@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:nvo3@ietf.org">nvo3@ietf.org</a>; <a=
 href=3D"mailto:trill@ietf.org">
trill@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn@ietf.org">l2vpn@ietf.org</a>; <=
a href=3D"mailto:opsawg@ietf.org">
opsawg@ietf.org</a><br>
</span><b>=D6=F7=CC=E2<span lang=3D"EN-US">:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
> [netmod] YANG models for OAM<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">All<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We have published YANG model fo=
r OAM. #1 draft below place the generic framework for OAM, that can be augm=
ented for different technologies. #2 and #3 are application of the concept =
to NVO3 and TRILL,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo6"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-netmod-oam/">http://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-tissa-netmod-oam/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo6"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-nvo3-yang-oam/">http://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/draft-tissa-nvo3-yang-oam/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 leve=
l1 lfo6"><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><span style=3D"mso-list:=
Ignore">3.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"http://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-trill-yang-oam/">http://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-tissa-trill-yang-oam/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please review and share your co=
mments<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Tissa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA8458087Dnkgeml501mbschi_--


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To: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>, "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" <tsenevir@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-tissa-netmod-oam-01
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "Nobo Akiya (nobo)" <nobo@cisco.com>, "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" <tsenevir@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-tissa-netmod-oam-01
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Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2014 13:26:33 +0000
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "time@ietf.org" <time@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: TIME proposal in OPS-Area meeting and RTGWG meeting
Thread-Index: Ac+mZLRdcwchI1ZcRcO1nl5LVG7l8g==
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 10:55:20 +0000
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Subject: [Time] TIME proposal in OPS-Area meeting and RTGWG meeting
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Hi, folks:
Just want to remind we have two presentations on TIME Proposal in opsawg me=
eting and rtgwg meeting.
0900-1130  Morning Session I
Ontario     OPS                    opsawg      Operations and Management Ar=
ea Working Group WG - Combined with OPSAREA

1520-1650  Afternoon Session II

Ballroom          RTG         rtgwg                 Routing Area Working Gr=
oup WG

If you want to know the latest progress and status of TIME proposal, please=
 join us.
Your comments/thoughts/concerns are also appreciated.




Regards!
-Qin

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi, folks:<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.12%;margin-left:-.75pt;border-coll=
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<td style=3D"padding:.75pt 24.0pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Just want to remind we have two=
 presentations on TIME Proposal in opsawg meeting and rtgwg meeting.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%;border-collapse:collapse">
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<td style=3D"padding:.75pt 24.0pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">0900-1130&nbsp; Morning Session=
 I<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ontario&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 OPS &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; opsawg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 Operations and Management Area Working Group WG - Combined with OPSAREA<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
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<td style=3D"padding:.75pt 24.0pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt 24.0pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt 24.0pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt 24.0pt .75pt .75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">1520-1650&nbsp; Afternoon Sessi=
on II<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Ballroom&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; RTG &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; r=
tgwg&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Routing Area Working Group WG<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If you want to know the latest =
progress and status of TIME proposal, please join us.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Your comments/thoughts/concerns=
 are also appreciated.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:6.5pt;=
font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">-Qin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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