From nobody Wed Sep 3 17:01:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B3581A8771; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 17:01:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BExp1s7PStnd; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 17:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FDD31A8774; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 17:00:51 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f79916d00000623a-d6-54075420e4cd Received: from EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.84]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id B9.4A.25146.02457045; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 19:47:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 20:00:48 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" , "'draft-tissa-netmod-oam@tools.ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: draft-tissa-netmod-oam Thread-Index: Ac+tKouGZjiF/7GjRZGwGunQsgwS9AVplJ1wAT/fSeA= Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 00:00:47 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B82A71B@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B82567E@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.10] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B82A71Beusaamb103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrKIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPiK5CCHuIwZnPphZ7t71ktXj87RC7 xa2lK1kt5l9sZLV4Ol/S4vOfbYwWxy/8ZrSYt+sDk0X3j6dsDpweU35vZPVYsuQnk8eXy5/Z ApijuGxSUnMyy1KL9O0SuDI2N35iLFg9k6ni+6JNTA2MbZ8Yuxg5OSQETCT+v5rFBGGLSVy4 t56ti5GLQ0jgKKPE5kvrWCCcZYwSB3bMYAOpYhMwknixsYcdJCEi0M8o8X7eHbAqZoFGJonv 19+zglQJC6hIPD9wFqxDREBVYn/jf2YI20ri69K1YPtYgGpe/rkIVs8r4CuxZM9OJoh1Exgl Pk3pBDuQEyjR3PuKBcRmBDrw+6k1YM3MAuISt57MhzpcAKj5PDOELSrx8vE/VghbSWLS0nOs EPX5Et/mr2GGWCYocXLmE5YJjKKzkIyahaRsFpIyiLiOxILdn9ggbG2JZQtfM8PYZw48ZkIW X8DIvoqRo7Q4tSw33chwEyMwXo9JsDnuYFzwyfIQowAHoxIP7wJWthAh1sSy4srcQ4zSHCxK 4rya1fOChQTSE0tSs1NTC1KL4otKc1KLDzEycXBKNTCqXGqU6FRI+tmWLxsSXHN667dHG45/ 9eFZlH50qa/4yZkP54qqVa1yWmghkj9rxn+xvszlHfcuJ9oeqDyjtWIyJ7uI2gKXAxz35i46 d3zD9CfTtqukPRT43fr/ytGwAIFHljZcDd+8BYVur89YnGbL5cO/vuJKiM/hikdePHdsnygz eDX/+q6kxFKckWioxVxUnAgAY9KYUbgCAAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/QsBuJWPyWgS7So1a0gBy8Lr382o Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "mpls@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "time@ietf.org" , "'netmod@ietf.org'" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Time] draft-tissa-netmod-oam X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 00:01:04 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B82A71Beusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tissa, thank you for detailed and informative response. Information about OAM work= at TRILL WG is very interesting as I haven't been following it in much det= ails. I'd note that applicability of the model developed at TRILL WG to MPL= S OAM is not clear to me. I think that it would be helpful to discuss relev= ance of the TRILL's OAM model at MPLS and MPLS technology related WGs befor= e presenting it as the model that encompasses MPLS. Similarly, I think, for= the IP. Perhaps, for the time, we can refer to the model as TRILL OAM. Mor= e notes in-lined and tagged GIM>>. Regards, Greg From: Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir) [mailto:tsenevir@cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 8:24 AM To: Gregory Mirsky; 'draft-tissa-netmod-oam@tools.ietf.org' Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; time@ietf.org; 'netmod@= ietf.org'; nvo3@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: RE: draft-tissa-netmod-oam Greg Before answering the specific questions below, would like explain few aspe= cts related to the extended CFM model used here. CFM originally was design= ed exclusively for Ethernet. As part of the TRILL OAM work we decoupled CFM= model from Ethernet based addressing and made it addressing independent. T= hat is the CFM model that is referred here. CFM defines a complete fault model that include fault domains, Test point, = Layering etc. Strict definition of such is needed to develop a complete OAM= solution regardless of the underline technology. CFM does a fantastic job = in accomplishing that and AFIK there is no other model. We are leveraging t= hat model. The word generic OAM is utilized here to indicate that the model can be app= lied regardless of the underlying technology. YANG model is not a one-one copy of CFM YANG defined in MEF. Rather it is d= efined with address independent and extensibility in mind. With the above in mind, specific answers in-line: From: L2vpn [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Mirsky Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:15 PM To: 'draft-tissa-netmod-oam@tools.ietf.org' Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; time@ietf.org; 'netmod@ietf.org'; nvo3@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@iet= f.org Subject: draft-tissa-netmod-oam Dear Authors, et.al, please kindly consider my comments and questions to this document: * Introduction o "... it is a reasonable choice to develop the unified OAM framework ba= sed on those (CFM) concepts." I agree that for packet switching connection-= oriented networks that are based on G.800 architecture CFM, but more so Y.1= 731, provides shared concepts. I think that the same cannot be said for con= nectionless packet switching networks. Thus extending CFM model onto arbitr= ary networks without consideration whether these are connection-oriented or= connectionless is very questionable approach, IMO; [Answer] As stated above it is the OAM Model that is leveraged here. Regard= less of connection oriented or not the model on Fault domains, Test points = etc is valid. In theory connection oriented can be broken in to connection establishment = and data forwarding. With that in mind, one can define Fault domain and tes= t points. Followed by definition of the Fault identifications tools accordi= ngly. Do you have a preferred OAM tool for fault verification/isolation and loss= and performance monitoring for connection oriented connectuons ?. If so wo= uld like to review and map to the model. GIM>> I don't have "favorite tool" but would point that in connectionless n= etwork one cannot define Mis-connection defect and thus OAM models for con= nectionless and connection-oriented networks would be different. o "...CFM, it is a reasonable choice to develop the unified OAM framework= based on those concepts" IP OAM is not based on Ethernet Service OAM model= or principles but, IMO, OAM of overlay networks more closer resemble IP OA= M as these networks are connectionless in their architecture; [Answer] Please see the answer above and extended CFM model. It is the mod= el that is presented here, regardless of the connectioness, OAM tools need= fault domains and fault boundaries. Addidtionally as stated in the explana= tion above, there is nothing Ethernet in CFM, once the addressing is decoup= led. o "The YANG model presented in this document is the base model and suppor= ts IP Ping and Traceroute." If only these and similar OAM tools, e.g. LSP p= ing, Loopback/Linktrace, are in scope of the document, then, I believe, the= title may say something like "YANG model of on-demand OAM tool to detect a= nd localize Loss of Continuity defect". Referring to ping/traceroute as "ge= neric OAM" comes as stretch too far; [Answer] I think there is a miss understanding this model is not limited to= Ping and Trace route. Ping and traceroute are only examples to get the wor= k stared and discussion going. As we go along other tools will be mapped to= the model. GIM>> LSP Ping does more that ICMP or CFM's Loopback and Linktrace as it ve= rifies correlation between control and data planes. Had that functionality = been removed by TRILL OAM from "extended CFM model"? o "...initiate a performance monitoring session can do so in the same ma= nner regardless of the underlying protocol or technology" I'd point to work= of LMAP WG on informational model of performance measurements in large-sca= le access networks, work of ITU-T's SG15, MEF. Perhaps sentence can be stop= ped after "... or a Traceroute". [Answer] I did not fully understand your point. o "In this document we define the YANG model for Generic OAM" Can you pro= vide definition or reference to the definition of the "Generic OAM"? It is = challenging to validate informational model of something that not been suff= iciently defined. [Answer] As explained earlier terminology generic OAM is used to indicate = that the presented OAM model can be applied independent of the underlying t= echnology. In section 1, we have stated the following: "..In this document,= we take the [8021Q] CFM model and extend it to a technology independent fr= amework and build the corresponding YANG model accordingly. The YANG model = presented in this document is the base model and supports IP Ping and Trace= route. The generic OAM YANG model is designed such that it can be extended = to cover various technologies. Technology dependent nodes and RPC commands = are defined in technology specific YANG models, which use and extend the ba= se model defined here. .... " GIM>> Had other WGs agreed that the proposed by TRILL WG OAM model is repre= sentative of their technologies? If not, then what "Generic" is there? * Section 3 o "This allows users to traverse between OAM of different technologies at= ease through a uniform API set." Usually relationships between OAM layers = referred and viewed as OAM interworking. There are several examples of IETF= addressing aspects of OAM interworking. I think that interworking includes= not only scenarios of nested OAM layers but peering layers and thus is bro= ader than introduced in the document "nested OAM". [Answer] Can you please provide some example here, I am not quite clear. Guessing from the word peering, if we are referring to cascaded sections of= different technologies such as IP Cloud, MPLS cloud and another IP cloud. = Then the model presented here is the answer. You can have an end end OAM se= ssion at a higher MD-Level. Each of the clouds below can have separate OAM = at a lower MD-Level. These can be utilized for fault isolation. o Figure 1 depicts OAM of both connection-oriented and connectionless net= works. What you see common, generic in respective OAM of these networks? [Answer] Please see the answers above. * Section 4 o "In IP, the MA can be per IP Subnet ..." As there's no definition of MA= in IP, is this the definition or one of examples. Can MA in IP network be = other than per IP Subnet? [Answer] It is ".. can be", so it meant to be an example and other possibil= ities are not ruled out and model does not assume any such limitation. o "Under each MA, there can be two or more MEPs (Maintenance End Points)"= Firstly, since you adopt MA-centric terminology, MEP stands for Maintenanc= e Association End Point. Secondly, in some OAM models Down and Up MEP being= distinguished. Would your model consider that? As there's no definition of= MEP for several networks you've listed, e.g. IP, how the YANG model will a= bstract something that is not defined? And thirdly, how and where MIPs are = located in IP OAM? [Answer] Yes model accept both UP/Down. One cannot say for IP there is no MEP. MEP is a functional abstraction of a= test point that generate and respond to OAM messages. In that regard IP de= vices today have an implicit MEP at the CPU. The model allow to provide mor= e semantics to the MEP and allow to create UP/Down per interface or other s= cope, hence providing more granularity in fault isolation/verification and = monitoring. GIM>> Is IP MEP being defined as being in control plane/CPU? What if it is = in NPU, i.e. data plane? If on CPU, then what differentiates Up MEP from Do= wn MEP from POV of packets it transmits and receives? And how MIP functions= in IP based on TRILL OAM model? Is it, as in Ethernet OAM, constructed of = two MHFs? Thank you for your consideration of my notes and looking forward to the int= eresting discussion. Thank you for spending time to review and comment. We are updating the next= version with comments received so far and specifically during IETF in Cana= da. We are more than happy enhance where applicable or need more clarity. Regards, Greg --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B82A71Beusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Tissa,

thank you for detailed= and informative response. Information about OAM work at TRILL WG is very i= nteresting as I haven’t been following it in much details. I’d = note that applicability of the model developed at TRILL WG to MPLS OAM is not clear to me. I think that it would be helpful = to discuss relevance of the TRILL’s OAM model at MPLS and MPLS techno= logy related WGs before presenting it as the model that encompasses MPLS. S= imilarly, I think, for the IP. Perhaps, for the time, we can refer to the model as TRILL OAM. More notes in-lined = and tagged GIM>>.

 

   &nbs= p;            Regard= s,

   &nbs= p;            &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;   Greg

 

From: Tissa Se= nevirathne (tsenevir) [mailto:tsenevir@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 8:24 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky; 'draft-tissa-netmod-oam@tools.ietf.org'
Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; time@ietf.org; '= netmod@ietf.org'; nvo3@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: RE: draft-tissa-netmod-oam

 

Greg=

 

Before answering the s= pecific questions below,  would like explain few aspects related to th= e extended CFM model used here. CFM  originally was designed exclusive= ly for Ethernet. As part of the TRILL OAM work we decoupled CFM model from Ethernet based addressing and made it addressi= ng independent. That is the CFM model that is referred here.

 

CFM defines a complete= fault model that include fault domains, Test point, Layering etc. Strict d= efinition of such is needed to develop a complete OAM solution regardless o= f the underline technology. CFM does a fantastic job in accomplishing that and AFIK there is no other model. We= are leveraging that model.

 

The word generic OAM i= s utilized here to indicate that the model can be applied regardless of the= underlying technology.

 

YANG model is not a on= e-one copy of CFM YANG defined in MEF. Rather it is defined with address in= dependent and extensibility in mind.

 

With the above in mind= , specific answers in-line:

 

From: L2vpn [<= a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Mirsky
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:15 PM
To: 'draft-tissa-netmod-oam@tools.ietf.org'
Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; = time@ietf.org; 'netmod@ietf.org'; nvo3= @ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: draft-tissa-netmod-oam

 

Dear Authors, et.al,

please kindly consider my comments and questions to = this document:

·         Introduction

o    “… it is a reasonable choi= ce to develop the unified OAM framework based on those (CFM) concepts.̶= 1; I agree that for packet switching connection-oriented networks that are = based on G.800 architecture CFM, but more so Y.1731, provides shared concepts. I think that the same cannot be said for connectionless p= acket switching networks. Thus extending CFM model onto arbitrary networks = without consideration whether these are connection-oriented or connectionle= ss is very questionable approach, IMO;

 

 

[Answer] As stated abo= ve it is the OAM Model that is leveraged here. Regardless of connection ori= ented or not the model on Fault domains, Test points etc is valid.

 

In theory connection o= riented can be broken in to connection establishment and data forwarding. W= ith that in mind, one can define Fault domain and test points. Followed by = definition of the Fault identifications tools accordingly.

 

Do you have a preferre= d OAM tool  for fault verification/isolation and loss and performance = monitoring for connection oriented connectuons ?. If so would like to revie= w and map to the model.

 

GIM>> I don̵= 7;t have “favorite tool” but would point that in connectionless= network one cannot define Mis-connection defect and thus OAM models for &n= bsp;connectionless and connection-oriented networks would be different.

 

o   “…CFM, it is a reasonable choice= to develop the unified OAM framework based on those concepts” IP OAM= is not based on Ethernet Service OAM model or principles but, IMO, OAM of = overlay networks more closer resemble IP OAM as these networks are connectionless in their architecture;

 

[Answer]  Please = see the answer above and extended CFM model. It is the model that is presen= ted here, regardless of the connectioness,  OAM tools need fault domai= ns and fault boundaries. Addidtionally as stated in the explanation above, there is nothing Ethernet in CFM, once the addre= ssing is decoupled.

 

o   “The YANG model presented in this docu= ment is the base model and supports IP Ping and Traceroute.” If only = these and similar OAM tools, e.g. LSP ping, Loopback/Linktrace, are in scop= e of the document, then, I believe, the title may say something like “YANG model of on-demand OAM tool to detect a= nd localize Loss of Continuity defect”. Referring to ping/traceroute = as “generic OAM” comes as stretch too far;

 

[Answer] I think there= is a miss understanding this model is not limited to Ping and Trace route.= Ping and traceroute are only examples to get the work stared and discussio= n going. As we go along other tools will be mapped to the model.

 

GIM>> LSP Ping d= oes more that ICMP or CFM’s Loopback and Linktrace as it verifies cor= relation between control and data planes. Had that functionality been remov= ed by TRILL OAM from “extended CFM model”?

 

o    “…initiate a performance m= onitoring session can do so in the same manner regardless of the underlying= protocol or technology” I’d point to work of LMAP WG on inform= ational model of performance measurements in large-scale access networks, work of ITU-T’s SG15, MEF. Perhaps sentence can be stopped= after “… or a Traceroute”.

[Answer] I did not ful= ly understand your point.

 

o   “In this document we define the YANG m= odel for Generic OAM” Can you provide definition or reference to the = definition of the “Generic OAM”? It is challenging to validate = informational model of something that not been sufficiently defined.

 

[Answer]  As expl= ained earlier terminology generic OAM is used to indicate that the presente= d OAM model can be applied independent of the underlying technology. In sec= tion 1, we have stated the following: “..In this document, we take the [8021Q] CFM model and extend it to a technology= independent framework and build the corresponding YANG model accordingly. = The YANG model presented in this document is the base model and supports IP= Ping and Traceroute. The generic OAM YANG model is designed such that it can be extended to cover various t= echnologies. Technology dependent nodes and RPC commands are defined in tec= hnology specific YANG models, which use and extend the base model defined h= ere. …. “

 

GIM>> Had other = WGs agreed that the proposed by TRILL WG OAM model is representative of the= ir technologies? If not, then what “Generic” is there?

 

·         Section 3

o   “This allows users to traverse between= OAM of different technologies at ease through a uniform API set.” Us= ually relationships between OAM layers referred and viewed as OAM interwork= ing. There are several examples of IETF addressing aspects of OAM interworking. I think that interworking includes not only s= cenarios of nested OAM layers but peering layers and thus is broader than i= ntroduced in the document “nested OAM”.

[Answer]  Can you= please provide some example here, I am not quite clear.<= /p>

 

Guessing from the word= peering, if we are referring to cascaded sections of different technologie= s such as IP Cloud, MPLS cloud and another IP cloud. Then the model present= ed here is the answer. You can have an end end OAM session at a higher MD-Level. Each of the clouds below can = have separate OAM at a lower MD-Level. These can be utilized for fault isol= ation.

 

o   Figure 1 depicts OAM of both connection-orie= nted and connectionless networks. What you see common, generic in respectiv= e OAM of these networks?

 

[Answer] Please see th= e answers above.

 

·         Section 4

o   “In IP, the MA can be per IP Subnet &#= 8230;” As there’s no definition of MA in IP, is this the defini= tion or one of examples. Can MA in IP network be other than per IP Subnet?<= o:p>

[Answer] It is “= .. can be”, so it meant to be an example and other possibilities are = not ruled out and model does not assume any such limitation.

 

o   “Under each MA, there can be two or mo= re MEPs (Maintenance End Points)” Firstly, since you adopt MA-centric= terminology, MEP stands for Maintenance Association End Point. Secondly, i= n some OAM models Down and Up MEP being distinguished. Would your model consider that? As there’s no definition of MEP for = several networks you’ve listed, e.g. IP, how the YANG model will abst= ract something that is not defined? And thirdly, how and where MIPs are loc= ated in IP OAM?

 

[Answer] Yes model acc= ept both UP/Down.

 

One cannot say for IP = there is no MEP. MEP is a functional abstraction of a test point that gener= ate and respond to OAM messages. In that regard IP devices today have an im= plicit MEP at the CPU. The model allow to provide more semantics to the MEP and allow to create UP/Down per inter= face or other scope, hence providing more granularity in fault isolation/ve= rification and monitoring.

 

GIM>> Is IP MEP = being defined as being in control plane/CPU? What if it is in NPU, i.e. dat= a plane? If on CPU, then what differentiates Up MEP from Down MEP from POV = of packets it transmits and receives? And how MIP functions in IP based on TRILL OAM model? Is it, as in Ethernet OA= M, constructed of two MHFs?

 

Thank you for your consideration of my notes and loo= king forward to the interesting discussion.

 

Thank you for spending= time to review and comment. We are updating the next version with comments= received so far and specifically during IETF in Canada. We are more than h= appy enhance where applicable or need more clarity.

 

Regards,

    =     Greg

--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B82A71Beusaamb103erics_-- From nobody Fri Sep 5 04:10:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A902C1A066A for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 04:10:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.169 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.169 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iKRi9OmZhns0 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 04:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1BAF1A064D for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 04:10:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=544; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1409915441; x=1411125041; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: content-transfer-encoding; bh=fwkUg3A9bKKvUgPpbOvZgiWPqo0Sba0BFBnkcCWPJPo=; b=ctFHGNN3BenZ+GIHcMrcbA/CMgLh4t5WhFq16dMmPm20p+WlskIRTruG ePzcUJCVbXMa68qGf9wI2+1gKxdHv/2MLb0AFgwMrCvljZlqxKjP/WAFO vyuSyF22UVaInOdBMbNr7PblCs7NopPxESYf6OHrU7d70iwlAO5pARS3K E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ap8EAOSYCVStJssW/2dsb2JhbABZ1Q+BI3eEQjYKATwWGAMCAQIBSw0BBwEBiD6+FwEXj02EUwEEnGyHPIRjiQeDYzuCfgEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,472,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="166279746" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Sep 2014 11:10:39 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.85] (ams-bclaise-8914.cisco.com [10.60.67.85]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s85BAcBV013200; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 11:10:39 GMT Message-ID: <54099A2E.2040102@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 13:10:38 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "time@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/ga8hWvpeJsGWADK5tRz7HyJi7KU Cc: "ops-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [Time] Mailing list name change request: from TIME to LIME X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 11:10:49 -0000 Dear all, Based on the feedback received during the last IETF meeting, the mailing list name has been confusing. A few NTP-interested people showed up in our meetings... and where disappointed :-) I just approved the name change from TIME to LIME: Layer Independent OAM Management in the multi-layer environment (LIME). All people subscribed to TIME should be automatically subscribed to LIME. We added a special note to move the TIME archive to LIME. Let's see if this is possible: I'll keep you posted. Regards, Benoit From nobody Sat Sep 6 01:05:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 558761A02FC for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 08:43:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9_yNkMYuAUrK for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 08:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x236.google.com (mail-ig0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60DFB1A071C for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 08:42:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ig0-f182.google.com with SMTP id a13so3561052igq.9 for ; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 08:42:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=drGktLmoPOs4fa4QeF6Ng8Wj2BwcMGE8iUo2OyI3/vg=; b=X9G0ngPrasyW6T/jMOGGNFx1CZc0K6mGuBaxrMfbc8f29E573+z3Iq9lSiE/+3I/7v Hskz2a4hmccBi7t0xHG0T/UMzgbDD0BCaZRGupSNy8KzPfi2evXjAvL04vk7r7mCWqJn ASU/cxLjWqqIddFLUmS9C2n7kud8On6ncc6FZSlI1lsTc6mKfBnyS162HW5lnfxs2eBY xwxFpzh70NapAJpkpl2PgCNz5mNU6BxfYLQgWo8dU6rJFruH4/+fYSLvWEvgQKZ5s64o WfdITKv52XO5eaxNGPa5EECM5cNoctSnJX0mBBuqciFX2QJ9QstjjFRaR2pIS1sSmYHq YFBg== X-Received: by 10.50.55.68 with SMTP id q4mr5905101igp.44.1409931777829; Fri, 05 Sep 2014 08:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.97.48] ([67.210.160.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id mj4sm1800954igb.2.2014.09.05.08.42.56 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 05 Sep 2014 08:42:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5409DA04.2020200@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 11:43:00 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "time@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/9ayrTtJU4RYeZ2UMzIsBIX1MxAU X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 01:05:23 -0700 Subject: [Time] Editor's proposed draft of TIME/LIME Problem Statement X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 15:43:00 -0000 Qin Wu drafted me as editor of the Problem Statement I-D. There has been a lot of activity behind the scenes. When I was brought into the picture, I was given a version -03 of draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam as a starting point. This built on the published -02 version but had a lot more text up front and in the future work section. It also dropped "Architecture" from the title, removing it as a focus. My view was that the Problem Statement had to be tightly focussed precisely on that topic, and the future work section would become the core of a gap analysis document. This view was accepted. As a result, I have prepared an Editor's Proposal, draft-edprop-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-ps-00, which I plan to submit on Monday after some people have looked it over. It is much stripped down from the original text and has a lot of new text, but I hope it is not a shock to TIME/LIME participants. A key issue was extremely careful attention to terminology and nuances of meaning. The concluding Problem Statement section is fairly brief, so I'll quote it here: 5. Problem Statement Operators have a need for a management subsystem satisfying the objectives stated in Section 3. The analysis presented above indicates that the solution lies in the direction of a consolidated management function that operates in the first instance on a technology and layer independent view of network and service performance. There is value in attempting to define an architecture for consolidated management that may reasonably be argued to meet the stated objectives. If this attempt succeeds, it can be followed up with a gap analysis, which in turn will define a further program of standardization. At the detailed level, Section 4.3.1 and Section 4.3.2 deal with the matter of abstraction and its relationship to the specification of YANG modules. This is work beyond the initial definition of architecture and awaits justification and prioritization by the gap analysis. A similar consideration relates to the solution to the ECMP problem. The remaining issue is the OAM interworking issue identified in Section 4.3.3. This is architectural in nature, and should be addressed by the proposed work on architecture. Tom Taylor From nobody Sat Sep 6 02:38:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 648371A01FF for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2014 02:38:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.364 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.364 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0UEBauUOjYXA for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2014 02:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C59A41A0201 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2014 02:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BJD11001; Sat, 06 Sep 2014 09:38:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.34) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sat, 6 Sep 2014 10:37:58 +0100 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.209]) by nkgeml403-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Sat, 6 Sep 2014 17:37:51 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Tom Taylor , "time@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Time] Editor's proposed draft of TIME/LIME Problem Statement Thread-Index: AQHPyalU4JMG30eSaUSJISQbv/6P1Zvz0sfg Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 09:37:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5409DA04.2020200@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <5409DA04.2020200@gmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/ixPn7nFPUIH3W_TuxOKt44zkoQw Subject: Re: [Time] Editor's proposed draft of TIME/LIME Problem Statement X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." 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Sat, 6 Sep 2014 03:11:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9waIPKv8R7FU for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2014 03:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x235.google.com (mail-la0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D96AC1A003A for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2014 03:10:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f53.google.com with SMTP id q1so6642278lam.12 for ; Sat, 06 Sep 2014 03:10:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; 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([2001:1bc8:101:f101:d21:a993:29a4:c25d]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id my10sm1582562lbb.9.2014.09.06.03.10.56 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 06 Sep 2014 03:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Jouni In-Reply-To: <5409DA04.2020200@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 13:10:54 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <461483BC-58E7-483D-8B81-FB15C015C4B7@gmail.com> References: <5409DA04.2020200@gmail.com> To: Tom Taylor X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/QfB1PWVJXnWcV-I3hsmOQSfsqfI Cc: "time@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Time] Editor's proposed draft of TIME/LIME Problem Statement X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 10:11:01 -0000 Tom, I had a read on this document. Good stuff. I have one lame comment = though. The preamble building the "background and justification" is just = too verbose and tries to address to many cases. When we get to problem = statement part and the architecture part it was hard to put everything = together in my head. I admit I have not spent much time on this specific = topic but still.. I would try to illustrate the background with one = concrete use case example that people can easily relate to and then = state "there are other out there..". - Jouni On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:43 PM, Tom Taylor wrote: > Qin Wu drafted me as editor of the Problem Statement I-D. >=20 > There has been a lot of activity behind the scenes. When I was = brought into the picture, I was given a version -03 of = draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam as a starting point. This built on the = published -02 version but had a lot more text up front and in the future = work section. It also dropped "Architecture" from the title, removing it = as a focus. >=20 > My view was that the Problem Statement had to be tightly focussed = precisely on that topic, and the future work section would become the = core of a gap analysis document. This view was accepted. As a result, I = have prepared an Editor's Proposal, = draft-edprop-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-ps-00, which I plan to submit on = Monday after some people have looked it over. It is much stripped down = from the original text and has a lot of new text, but I hope it is not a = shock to TIME/LIME participants. A key issue was extremely careful = attention to terminology and nuances of meaning. >=20 > The concluding Problem Statement section is fairly brief, so I'll = quote it here: >=20 > 5. Problem Statement >=20 > Operators have a need for a management subsystem satisfying the > objectives stated in Section 3. The analysis presented above > indicates that the solution lies in the direction of a consolidated > management function that operates in the first instance on a > technology and layer independent view of network and service > performance. >=20 > There is value in attempting to define an architecture for > consolidated management that may reasonably be argued to meet the > stated objectives. If this attempt succeeds, it can be followed up > with a gap analysis, which in turn will define a further program of > standardization. >=20 > At the detailed level, Section 4.3.1 and Section 4.3.2 deal with the > matter of abstraction and its relationship to the specification of > YANG modules. This is work beyond the initial definition of > architecture and awaits justification and prioritization by the gap > analysis. A similar consideration relates to the solution to the > ECMP problem. >=20 > The remaining issue is the OAM interworking issue identified in > Section 4.3.3. This is architectural in nature, and should be > addressed by the proposed work on architecture. >=20 > Tom Taylor =09 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Time mailing list > Time@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time From nobody Sat Sep 6 05:20:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3DAC1A0267 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2014 03:41:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JR0qgEJD17pJ for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2014 03:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x22f.google.com (mail-ig0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F5281A0081 for ; Sat, 6 Sep 2014 03:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ig0-f175.google.com with SMTP id uq10so607347igb.8 for ; Sat, 06 Sep 2014 03:41:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4BxKniFMxj6Lf2lqVBz65Q9mOmsYmgzT+Io/IgylSSI=; b=nQw2jmmptvRktegz+xLzqTjxchnJ0W1xbganKorvQghei0BXLRseaeSQMA1/To1qNQ bYwTJSOYkJ0qmBKQdqul3nPUnEPxEImmVr/aCIkpLwtxOL0w6aB5YWq8VbpE99i+qUXW pWU08HW7pkQhugcJnYHhQx9cgSirjLks3ZUzsjgL1oe+HcQpF4WyTO0yH8f3WEBo0d1m farqqL2WgF+r9Bf7uU+OFDEi+7/gaEMFOURCQeNXVk6LekttaOSCoeMvAbZYw/NuZaRB WEFcWi0kpivsoWrJTdzPnwpfhjTk9QmWyYrynky56MsVUnOr9xhTJkCopHP3XtLMqFJL LWUQ== X-Received: by 10.50.4.9 with SMTP id g9mr10997932igg.42.1410000091479; Sat, 06 Sep 2014 03:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.97.8] ([67.210.160.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id vn5sm5885135igb.1.2014.09.06.03.41.30 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 06 Sep 2014 03:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <540AE4DF.5010500@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 06:41:35 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jouni References: <5409DA04.2020200@gmail.com> <461483BC-58E7-483D-8B81-FB15C015C4B7@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <461483BC-58E7-483D-8B81-FB15C015C4B7@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/CB1Hu7V163BMWnGOtqPEymoiPOE X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 05:20:58 -0700 Cc: "time@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Time] Editor's proposed draft of TIME/LIME Problem Statement X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 10:41:34 -0000 Thanks, Jouni. We can work on that. Tom On 06/09/2014 6:10 AM, Jouni wrote: > > Tom, > > I had a read on this document. Good stuff. I have one lame comment though. The preamble building the "background and justification" is just too verbose and tries to address to many cases. When we get to problem statement part and the architecture part it was hard to put everything together in my head. I admit I have not spent much time on this specific topic but still.. I would try to illustrate the background with one concrete use case example that people can easily relate to and then state "there are other out there..". > > - Jouni > > > On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:43 PM, Tom Taylor wrote: > >> Qin Wu drafted me as editor of the Problem Statement I-D. >> >> There has been a lot of activity behind the scenes. When I was brought into the picture, I was given a version -03 of draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam as a starting point. This built on the published -02 version but had a lot more text up front and in the future work section. It also dropped "Architecture" from the title, removing it as a focus. >> >> My view was that the Problem Statement had to be tightly focussed precisely on that topic, and the future work section would become the core of a gap analysis document. This view was accepted. As a result, I have prepared an Editor's Proposal, draft-edprop-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-ps-00, which I plan to submit on Monday after some people have looked it over. It is much stripped down from the original text and has a lot of new text, but I hope it is not a shock to TIME/LIME participants. A key issue was extremely careful attention to terminology and nuances of meaning. >> >> The concluding Problem Statement section is fairly brief, so I'll quote it here: >> >> 5. Problem Statement >> >> Operators have a need for a management subsystem satisfying the >> objectives stated in Section 3. The analysis presented above >> indicates that the solution lies in the direction of a consolidated >> management function that operates in the first instance on a >> technology and layer independent view of network and service >> performance. >> >> There is value in attempting to define an architecture for >> consolidated management that may reasonably be argued to meet the >> stated objectives. If this attempt succeeds, it can be followed up >> with a gap analysis, which in turn will define a further program of >> standardization. >> >> At the detailed level, Section 4.3.1 and Section 4.3.2 deal with the >> matter of abstraction and its relationship to the specification of >> YANG modules. This is work beyond the initial definition of >> architecture and awaits justification and prioritization by the gap >> analysis. A similar consideration relates to the solution to the >> ECMP problem. >> >> The remaining issue is the OAM interworking issue identified in >> Section 4.3.3. This is architectural in nature, and should be >> addressed by the proposed work on architecture. >> >> Tom Taylor >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Time mailing list >> Time@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time > > From nobody Sun Sep 7 17:30:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 639FC1A0ACD for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 17:30:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.047 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.047 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.347, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iun_lP8qSLA3 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 17:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x22b.google.com (mail-ig0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1C651A0ACC for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 17:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ig0-f171.google.com with SMTP id l13so1927473iga.10 for ; Sun, 07 Sep 2014 17:30:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jXB7A3M3tEw61pBH/XZ7mzKChyDAFW+uyjKGcajD+ds=; b=diMGEP7Ngs4y8Ff/+ShQlk9ZKaUZeVkLpfOHSpM9H8Ps6mFxgoW6CbVA3NK87RrhAy 7WB0gxUcJpD71nULxNsUy95cpsow1P3kOP02yoqVbxEbpaqrb3zBfxagl1O0Ob+F7cBl UjJoaA4I6q3+Y/p4CvDY5fO2sGOgHnLRKqJnrHxXb5kkavnqHDPh/hqDt5jBngrNWeiv K7gRGj+yZGqRYJ1VrAP+pt34dWfK19+qacJvZ/DaU7I7G9fjjwynad0/qWIfL03CspwI G6HnIVgZmixou4jWGJhWm7X4YZazA7Te6r7TQTFHXKLS11yJFvKPNU6pAdKJqUwYBIkb i1HA== X-Received: by 10.50.111.132 with SMTP id ii4mr19982159igb.8.1410136243409; Sun, 07 Sep 2014 17:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.97.55] ([67.210.160.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id m9sm7687580igd.14.2014.09.07.17.30.42 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 07 Sep 2014 17:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <540CF8B2.10006@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 20:30:42 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jouni References: <5409DA04.2020200@gmail.com> <461483BC-58E7-483D-8B81-FB15C015C4B7@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <461483BC-58E7-483D-8B81-FB15C015C4B7@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/4ZOem__8vygfnaLhQgtDHKxzGBQ Cc: "time@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Time] Editor's proposed draft of TIME/LIME Problem Statement X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 00:30:45 -0000 How about if the following text goes into the Introduction? 1.1 A Vision of Layer and Technology Independent Management What follows is based on the assumption of a network supported by a strict hierarchy of underlying layers in the data plane. There may be multiple layers at a given level of the OSI layer 1-2-3 hierarchy, but that is irrelevant to the vision. A management application presents to an user a view of this network and its supporting layers that is strictly topological, free of any technology specific information. The user notes a defect along a path serving a particular customer. Looking at the next lower path, the user also sees a defect. Looking the next lower path again, there is also a defect. No lower defect is noted. At this point it is appropriate to indicate what the user can see along a given path. The path is divided into one or more segments, each spanned by a specific transport technology. However, as already stated, the user does not see any technology specific information. Instead, as well as distinguishing the segments, the user can identify the managed elements at the beginning and end of each segment. To clarify the situation, the user issues an abstract Continuity Check command, directed toward the initial managed element of the segment in which a fault appears to lie (i.e., in the lowest layer where a defect was observed). By means to be determined by architectural choice, this command is converted into a technology-specific request which is executed across the selected segment. Possible outcomes include: (1) The fault could come clear as a result of the test. The immediate problem is solved (and may have affected multiple upper paths besides the one of initial interest) and the point at which it occurred could be flagged for follow-up maintenance. (2) Local craft action to clear the fault is available in timely fashion. (3) Timely local craft action is not possible, and capacity is reallocated on other paths to ensure that service levels are maintained. Note that capacity reallocation can be done based on the topological view of the network, still on a layer and technology independent basis. In case (2), technology specific management capabilities are likely to be required by the craftperson following up on the problem. The remainder of this document defines the problem that motivates a layer and technology independent view of the network, and provides guidelines for the creation of a management architecture that would make such a view possible. Tom On 06/09/2014 6:10 AM, Jouni wrote: > > Tom, > > I had a read on this document. Good stuff. I have one lame comment though. The preamble building the "background and justification" is just too verbose and tries to address to many cases. When we get to problem statement part and the architecture part it was hard to put everything together in my head. I admit I have not spent much time on this specific topic but still.. I would try to illustrate the background with one concrete use case example that people can easily relate to and then state "there are other out there..". > > - Jouni > > > On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:43 PM, Tom Taylor wrote: > >> Qin Wu drafted me as editor of the Problem Statement I-D. >> >> There has been a lot of activity behind the scenes. When I was brought into the picture, I was given a version -03 of draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam as a starting point. This built on the published -02 version but had a lot more text up front and in the future work section. It also dropped "Architecture" from the title, removing it as a focus. >> >> My view was that the Problem Statement had to be tightly focussed precisely on that topic, and the future work section would become the core of a gap analysis document. This view was accepted. As a result, I have prepared an Editor's Proposal, draft-edprop-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-ps-00, which I plan to submit on Monday after some people have looked it over. It is much stripped down from the original text and has a lot of new text, but I hope it is not a shock to TIME/LIME participants. A key issue was extremely careful attention to terminology and nuances of meaning. >> >> The concluding Problem Statement section is fairly brief, so I'll quote it here: >> >> 5. Problem Statement >> >> Operators have a need for a management subsystem satisfying the >> objectives stated in Section 3. The analysis presented above >> indicates that the solution lies in the direction of a consolidated >> management function that operates in the first instance on a >> technology and layer independent view of network and service >> performance. >> >> There is value in attempting to define an architecture for >> consolidated management that may reasonably be argued to meet the >> stated objectives. If this attempt succeeds, it can be followed up >> with a gap analysis, which in turn will define a further program of >> standardization. >> >> At the detailed level, Section 4.3.1 and Section 4.3.2 deal with the >> matter of abstraction and its relationship to the specification of >> YANG modules. This is work beyond the initial definition of >> architecture and awaits justification and prioritization by the gap >> analysis. A similar consideration relates to the solution to the >> ECMP problem. >> >> The remaining issue is the OAM interworking issue identified in >> Section 4.3.3. This is architectural in nature, and should be >> addressed by the proposed work on architecture. >> >> Tom Taylor >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Time mailing list >> Time@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time > > From nobody Sun Sep 7 20:22:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E94B91A6EDE for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 20:22:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1nHX446GMENl for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 20:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x233.google.com (mail-pd0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AE7F1A6EE5 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2014 20:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f179.google.com with SMTP id g10so6935642pdj.10 for ; Sun, 07 Sep 2014 20:22:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LRgKQnIE8+IOIzzY43m6dhkcTSVlX56hYsL8UrBkCfI=; b=wVX02UPbFyoHzLZuqHNc0+7A8JAN6nIc7HBMawzTPuhVVou1Py+PogXg536Rvkvu3j 3L/KFggD1hjlu4AOda1u6ZzRaCqE0cUYLvGLjuH0kbHZbGCSA4f4JklwxUhXl1TYTIqP amZ3IDPz5IoiSh1Bfl/CyC/KdhZZUQ4Z5C8oDQSiYCTts+Aa2WVFlj/ggam+V8hvkwkW j3O2ZlDfdPIRo89y3IzGiRu8yvilRd3cL0ZQpKSyxhFGwO1rmEGiyNxLtBQVyW4nC2wj JoyHcZVq8OOWe9Q3rRiIqRkIA7RcBMeQeVRg7GWq5uHP7iA7+1j/Z4T71MHoWXwutF23 T4Og== X-Received: by 10.66.168.165 with SMTP id zx5mr892600pab.133.1410146522566; Sun, 07 Sep 2014 20:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spandex.local (69-161-3-58-rb2.sol.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net. [69.161.3.58]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id hz4sm6379630pbc.22.2014.09.07.20.22.01 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 07 Sep 2014 20:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <540D20D8.6050704@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 19:22:00 -0800 From: Melinda Shore User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: time@ietf.org References: <5409DA04.2020200@gmail.com> <461483BC-58E7-483D-8B81-FB15C015C4B7@gmail.com> <540CF8B2.10006@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <540CF8B2.10006@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/NtWuBVhPiHgdZjdEFhaWQ70QXJc Subject: Re: [Time] Editor's proposed draft of TIME/LIME Problem Statement X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 03:22:05 -0000 On 9/7/14 4:30 PM, Tom Taylor wrote: > 1.1 A Vision of Layer and Technology Independent Management I just had a thorough read of a recent version of the problem statement and I think that the terminology around the problem really needs to be tweaked. In some sense we've already got layer- and technology- independent management, in the form of several highly modular protocols that can convey management and/or configuration information for all sorts of devices and protocols. What's unique here is that there's a proposal to path-couple management messages and possibly have them intercepted by management modules in varying sorts of devices along that path. It's been proposed before (for example, I proposed it here: draft-shore-nls-tl-06.txt) but has never been developed. What's significant about this proposal that it attempts to deal with managing and diagnosing problems that may be related to topology, perhaps without foreknowledge of topology or routing. I'd try to be clearer about why this is interesting. "Layer and Technology Independence" is one aspect of it but not one that's unique to this proposal. Melinda From nobody Mon Sep 8 01:01:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B3781A6F39 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 01:01:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lCHCSTTIyYKp for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 01:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD33F1A6F2E for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 01:01:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=8361; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1410163276; x=1411372876; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=Mi2j2+F3CVNfi+llyw0Q30uyXaFlL6JO3xJsdBf0xJw=; b=iuX2Hnre/BoOj7lrDrxUT2UIcD/Q66FHlUj52og0+FOtfwe9rzxzvN1h gNU1Cn+ZPvtsPK3UEtvGzGlrlzMPADWeQz1ixtOYxoICfj9GyzwstiNWi y0DLgUmB3E6KbTs4EzHyJ2fowH3sTcj75Fgs7LQk6hq4rsJLm1ewjvJSI 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhEGAFhhDVStJssW/2dsb2JhbABYjQ7IawGBJXiEBAEBBG4LECwlDwJGBg0BBwEBiD67EgEXj00HhEwFmCyERodBjWuDYzuCfgEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,485,1406592000"; d="scan'208,217";a="169822432" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Sep 2014 08:01:14 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.84] (ams-bclaise-8913.cisco.com [10.60.67.84]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8881Doe006656; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 08:01:13 GMT Message-ID: <540D6249.205@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 10:01:13 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "time@ietf.org" References: <540B022E.3070601@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <540B022E.3070601@cisco.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <540B022E.3070601@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030304070203090901020800" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/EltZSmlEqzWN1_nd20ZuL67bVlo Cc: "ops-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [Time] OAM Initiative: Situation X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 08:01:18 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030304070203090901020800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all, [Let us call this "OAM Inititiave" for now, as the mailing list is being renamed from TIME to LIME] During the last IETF meeting, there were various discussions with different audiences regarding OAM. Here is what we concluded: 1. Building an OAM generic protocol is impractical for multiple reasons. 2. It is desirable to have an unified view of OAM information at each layer, in order to correlate information, and detect the faulty element in the network path 3.. Consistent configuration, reporting, and presentation for the OAM mechanisms makes sense. 4. Using YANG as a modeling language is a logical choice. Note that there are already some efforts in that direction 5. A set of guidelines for future OAM developments would be welcome for consistency sake We also believe that there is sufficient interest to start working on a charter proposal. Regards, Joel and Benoit (OPS ADs) We should preserve the existing OAM technology implementations and behavior "on-the-wire" We will propose a unified management interface for multiple OAM technologies that will expose a common set of management interface capabilities for different OAM technologies (e.g. ping, traceroute) The management interface implementation will convert the defined common management capabilities to the OAM technology specific operations We will model OAM operations management using YANG following Specific OAM technology models will augment the generic OAM management model Cisco will support continued development of technology specific OAM standards within the appropriate IETF technology working groups We will promote generic OAM in the IETF OPS Working Group We will propose a set of guidelines new OAM technology implementations should follow We will investigate methods for scaling the return of large volumes of OAM data from the network --------------030304070203090901020800 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all,

[Let us call this "OAM Inititiave" for now, as the mailing list is being renamed from TIME to LIME]

During the last IETF meeting, there were various discussions with different audiences regarding OAM.

Here is what we concluded:
1. Building an OAM generic protocol is impractical for multiple reasons.
2. It is desirable to have an unified view of OAM information at each layer, in order to correlate information, and detect the faulty element in the network path
3.. Consistent configuration, reporting, and presentation for the OAM mechanisms makes sense.
4. Using YANG as a modeling language is a logical choice. Note that there are already some efforts in that direction
5. A set of guidelines for future OAM developments would be welcome for consistency sake

We also believe that there is sufficient interest to start working on a charter proposal.

Regards, Joel and Benoit (OPS ADs)












·         We should preserve the existing OAM technology implementations and behavior “on-the-wire”

·         We will propose a unified management interface for multiple OAM technologies that will expose a common set of management interface capabilities for different OAM technologies (e.g. ping, traceroute)

·         The management interface implementation will convert the defined common management capabilities to the OAM technology specific operations

·         We will model OAM operations management using YANG following

·         Specific OAM technology models will augment the generic OAM management model

·         Cisco will support continued development of technology specific OAM standards within the appropriate IETF technology working groups

·         We will promote generic OAM in the IETF OPS Working Group

·         We will propose a set of guidelines new OAM technology implementations should follow

·         We will investigate methods for scaling the return of large volumes of OAM data from the network

--------------030304070203090901020800-- From nobody Mon Sep 8 01:16:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63D421A6F44 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 01:16:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id en2_UVj3Dk_e for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 01:16:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7ADF81A6F39 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 01:16:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=10028; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1410164163; x=1411373763; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to; bh=jts8I4oHD2GG8jOW/mnfMhJev/NuGuNP3cpoBj1tQ+A=; b=YbYlT6eGY8NM3B9t4BvTneMtYEC48D46Bx3yHhaM5kTGlxFYoRR5JLR9 CZoa0jqyDwNyB588B549ijgm4dDq2Ez9T5a/PI2/V6zrUKR8f/CpNmyd5 hqKSRUmS/GAhETWAl/yOAc4NrEltWVZMlhaiSjXNAxsao5RyPg6kNf/F+ k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhsGANhkDVStJssW/2dsb2JhbABYg2BXgnyFW8Eahn5TAYEleIQDAQEBAgIjVQ0EGwEDAQIKFgsCAgkDAgECATsCCAYNBgIBAYg+DaYAlQ0BF401gXIEEQwMBoJzgVMFjyuGRYcCgV+FYoR7iHCDYzsvAQEBAYJLAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,485,1406592000"; d="scan'208,217";a="170486829" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Sep 2014 08:16:00 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.84] (ams-bclaise-8913.cisco.com [10.60.67.84]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s888Fw9Z003733 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 08:15:59 GMT Message-ID: <540D65BE.5010302@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 10:15:58 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "time@ietf.org" References: <20140820200806.30600.80876.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140820200806.30600.80876.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20140820200806.30600.80876.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020908090503010909070802" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/4_B2VdsZOARzxMAv0uArf-SjFFI Subject: [Time] Fwd: New Liaison Statement, "Liaison to IETF on YANG Service OAM models" X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 08:16:05 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020908090503010909070802 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FYI. Regards, Benoit -------- Original Message -------- Subject: New Liaison Statement, "Liaison to IETF on YANG Service OAM models" Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:08:06 -0700 From: Liaison Statement Management Tool To: , <-university.de>, Tom Nadeau , <>@ietfa.amsl.com> CC: Benoit Claise , Joel Jaeggli , "Nan Chen" , Bill Bjorkman , Raghu Ranganathan , , , , , , , Title: Liaison to IETF on YANG Service OAM models Submission Date: 2014-07-31 URL of the IETF Web page: http://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1346/ From: MEF (Mike Bencheck ) To: NETCONF Data Modeling Language (Jürgen Schönwälder , Tom Nadeau ) Cc: Benoit Claise ,Joel Jaeggli ,Nan Chen ,Bill Bjorkman ,Raghu Ranganathan ,kevin@metroethernetforum.org,netmod@ietf.org,tsbsg15@itu.int,glenn.parsons@ericsson.com,tnadeau@lucidvision.com Response Contact: nan@metroethernetforum.org, rraghu@ciena.com Technical Contact: Purpose: For information Body: Dear Jürgen Schönwälder, Tom Nadeau, and Benoit Claise: The MEF wants to communicate to the IETF NETCONF Data Modeling Language (netmod) Working Group that MEF has existing YANG Service OAM Fault Monitoring (MEF 38) and Service OAM Performance Monitoring (MEF 39) specifications. MEF 38 and MEF 39 are published specifications and can be found on the MEF public website at: http://www.metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Technical_Specifications/PDF/MEF_38.pdf http://www.metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Technical_Specifications/PDF/MEF_39.pdf There appears to be some direct overlap with these specifications and the goals of the Working Group, specifically in the area of MD, MA (MEG) and MEP definitions as found in http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-netmod-oam/. We request that IETF review and consider using these models, if applicable. We look forward to feedback from you on this subject. The MEF Technical Committee meets next in Atlanta in October 27-29, 2014. Attachments: Liaison to IETF on YANG Service OAM models https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2014-07-31-mef-netmod-liaison-to-ietf-on-yang-service-oam-models-attachment-1.pdf . --------------020908090503010909070802 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit FYI.

Regards, Benoit


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: New Liaison Statement, "Liaison to IETF on YANG Service OAM models"
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:08:06 -0700
From: Liaison Statement Management Tool <lsmt@ietf.org>
To: <Jürgen Schönwälder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs@ietfa.amsl.com>, <-university.de>, Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com@ietfa.amsl.com>, <>@ietfa.amsl.com>
CC: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, Joel Jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>, "Nan Chen" <nan@metroethernetforum.org>, Bill Bjorkman <bill@metroethernetforum.net>, Raghu Ranganathan <rraghu@ciena.com>, <kevin@metroethernetforum.org>, <netmod@ietf.org>, <tsbsg15@itu.int>, <glenn.parsons@ericsson.com>, <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>, <nan@metroethernetforum.org>, <rraghu@ciena.com> 


Title: Liaison to IETF on YANG Service OAM models
Submission Date: 2014-07-31
URL of the IETF Web page: http://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1346/

From: MEF (Mike Bencheck <mike.bencheck@siamasystems.com>)
To: NETCONF Data Modeling Language (Jürgen Schönwälder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, Tom Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>)
Cc: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>,Joel Jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>,Nan Chen <nan@metroethernetforum.org>,Bill Bjorkman <bill@metroethernetforum.net>,Raghu Ranganathan <rraghu@ciena.com>,kevin@metroethernetforum.org,netmod@ietf.org,tsbsg15@itu.int,glenn.parsons@ericsson.com,tnadeau@lucidvision.com
Response Contact: nan@metroethernetforum.org, rraghu@ciena.com
Technical Contact: 
Purpose: For information

Body: Dear Jürgen Schönwälder, Tom Nadeau, and Benoit Claise:

The MEF wants to communicate to the IETF NETCONF Data Modeling Language (netmod) Working Group that MEF has existing YANG Service OAM Fault Monitoring (MEF 38) and Service OAM Performance Monitoring (MEF 39) specifications. 

MEF 38 and MEF 39 are published specifications and can be found on the MEF public website at:

http://www.metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Technical_Specifications/PDF/MEF_38.pdf

http://www.metroethernetforum.org/Assets/Technical_Specifications/PDF/MEF_39.pdf

There appears to be some direct overlap with these specifications and the goals of the Working Group, specifically in the area of MD, MA (MEG) and MEP definitions as found in http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-netmod-oam/.

We request that IETF review and consider using these models, if applicable. We look forward to feedback from you on this subject.

The MEF Technical Committee meets next in Atlanta in October 27-29, 2014.
Attachments:

    Liaison to IETF on YANG Service OAM models
    https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2014-07-31-mef-netmod-liaison-to-ietf-on-yang-service-oam-models-attachment-1.pdf

.


--------------020908090503010909070802-- From nobody Mon Sep 8 08:36:58 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70F5E1A8876 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 08:36:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yPknE5E-id3G for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 08:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x229.google.com (mail-ie0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 850311A8878 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 08:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f169.google.com with SMTP id rl12so2339174iec.28 for ; Mon, 08 Sep 2014 08:36:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XMtPf6ojXx3zRQtBG+5b/xGUdj3XP/1oEYsTZNubByE=; b=xpGmYYhrDt88RQoc7wfWCiSJLrmW4dfg20bZfgxOtBFcQ66whvbqGSPmLtZglnadXP 6xy3AlWIZ0yumsstLS4bUdHyfi6iNIreAumcgFmrSQmlMkHAgRV//rFG0pf3NDm99GrE vq67+0HzopgoZGlvykSsGJDnGBX0qIZquLdKrADKhj716d4TZYxyBGg4adtvpQJk3L16 wW4SOyyp7/eDVQpznUsJXctwr3dGnwaDwbXdJNGnyK9m2W3NZn1j96D6R7swMjk1DwhT 0Uer7msoKJA+UPAdSXvIHZJ87KzAiNLEjRf+Eht3C2Myw0tFNkpqiAuhUlfQkEtsKHtm NFgw== X-Received: by 10.50.142.100 with SMTP id rv4mr24808718igb.43.1410190597809; Mon, 08 Sep 2014 08:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.97.175] ([67.210.160.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id x9sm11256953igw.15.2014.09.08.08.36.37 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Sep 2014 08:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <540DCD05.3030508@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 11:36:37 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: time@ietf.org, Benoit Claise References: <540B022E.3070601@cisco.com> <540D6249.205@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <540D6249.205@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/1f1V0s8FVjgnoVPWlQHtKLCu4hs Subject: Re: [Time] OAM Initiative: Situation - Sketch of a charter X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 15:36:51 -0000 It seems to me, taking Melinda's remarks into account, that the one work item missing from this announcement is the means whereby management is tied together along a path. The original TIME/LIME proposal spoke in terms of discovery by a centralized management application. Melinda suggests path-coupled management messages, possibly intercepted by management modules in varying sorts of devices along that path. Would this be an appropriate item of exploration within the charter? Tom Taylor On 08/09/2014 4:01 AM, Benoit Claise wrote: > Dear all, > > [Let us call this "OAM Inititiave" for now, as the mailing list is being > renamed from TIME to LIME] > > During the last IETF meeting, there were various discussions with > different audiences regarding OAM. > > Here is what we concluded: > 1. Building an OAM generic protocol is impractical for multiple reasons. > 2. It is desirable to have an unified view of OAM information at each > layer, in order to correlate information, and detect the faulty element > in the network path > 3.. Consistent configuration, reporting, and presentation for the OAM > mechanisms makes sense. > 4. Using YANG as a modeling language is a logical choice. Note that > there are already some efforts in that direction > 5. A set of guidelines for future OAM developments would be welcome for > consistency sake > > We also believe that there is sufficient interest to start working on a > charter proposal. > > Regards, Joel and Benoit (OPS ADs) > ... From nobody Mon Sep 8 12:52:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B7241A0326 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:52:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0xJVDmItxQ0X for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-f177.google.com (mail-we0-f177.google.com [74.125.82.177]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB5C61A037A for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:52:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-we0-f177.google.com with SMTP id u57so2336328wes.8 for ; Mon, 08 Sep 2014 12:52:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject :date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :thread-index:content-language; bh=+EVmwZ0eFk5My5H4K6tIEhesXGuS4zUqKNJ+hz35wsQ=; b=HHpD5ytj2XQVD+nUrnB3yESJMjhWVnTDXWp+VFeIsknT+LLsge00rNrxWlHQ0Url4d 3grgHEltvE5PkMTjeEwOAoc5hBDHHbv3hWe+giKaA/pJ8VI0j/M0rXVsGvXRIkFa5BCR 6t/fsJGhpP5Hq5nTzMVbLxYC61Jvn+zXci7Z0vMr/dM+057BXoAHx2hGs+3QC++cEsDy vl+99etxIJjPDz9DBsw4lBpF4QOdCkyko3s81zwA4myLVMzFHcyrfbgYjBtHaruxLsPL kEyA+dkQY8d9MjP5flOO2k42/ErwLY42kRyylbIONQTpqxbIIXCGH/xMzzzihiC8JPXF 9S8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmR1Owx2GIQOpH60+wFJX+kJ+UE4ffTzYUbMFjxOFG66k+NAO3owqssGMEm4u1fOCKnsTcX X-Received: by 10.180.228.106 with SMTP id sh10mr7205873wic.65.1410205965472; Mon, 08 Sep 2014 12:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Serenity (88-97-23-122.dsl.zen.co.uk. [88.97.23.122]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id mv14sm12973482wic.20.2014.09.08.12.52.43 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Sep 2014 12:52:44 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Daniel King X-Google-Original-Sender: "Daniel King" From: "Daniel King" To: "'Tom Taylor'" , "'Jouni'" References: <5409DA04.2020200@gmail.com> <461483BC-58E7-483D-8B81-FB15C015C4B7@gmail.com> <540CF8B2.10006@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <540CF8B2.10006@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:52:37 +0100 Message-ID: <008301cfcb9e$714d33f0$53e79bd0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AQGznz1/0zDIyf0CADmk7jeAEIn8XwE4yn0iAYkqCH2cGetQUA== Content-Language: en-gb Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/b0x-3TDTw3aBCZlHyRstbY_IHuU Cc: time@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Time] Editor's proposed draft of TIME/LIME Problem Statement X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 19:52:53 -0000 Hi Tom and Jouni, The vision statement for layer/technology independent management would be a useful addition in the P-S document. Br, Dan. -----Original Message----- From: Time [mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Taylor Sent: 08 September 2014 01:31 To: Jouni Cc: time@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Time] Editor's proposed draft of TIME/LIME Problem Statement How about if the following text goes into the Introduction? 1.1 A Vision of Layer and Technology Independent Management What follows is based on the assumption of a network supported by a strict hierarchy of underlying layers in the data plane. There may be multiple layers at a given level of the OSI layer 1-2-3 hierarchy, but that is irrelevant to the vision. A management application presents to an user a view of this network and its supporting layers that is strictly topological, free of any technology specific information. The user notes a defect along a path serving a particular customer. Looking at the next lower path, the user also sees a defect. Looking the next lower path again, there is also a defect. No lower defect is noted. At this point it is appropriate to indicate what the user can see along a given path. The path is divided into one or more segments, each spanned by a specific transport technology. However, as already stated, the user does not see any technology specific information. Instead, as well as distinguishing the segments, the user can identify the managed elements at the beginning and end of each segment. To clarify the situation, the user issues an abstract Continuity Check command, directed toward the initial managed element of the segment in which a fault appears to lie (i.e., in the lowest layer where a defect was observed). By means to be determined by architectural choice, this command is converted into a technology-specific request which is executed across the selected segment. Possible outcomes include: (1) The fault could come clear as a result of the test. The immediate problem is solved (and may have affected multiple upper paths besides the one of initial interest) and the point at which it occurred could be flagged for follow-up maintenance. (2) Local craft action to clear the fault is available in timely fashion. (3) Timely local craft action is not possible, and capacity is reallocated on other paths to ensure that service levels are maintained. Note that capacity reallocation can be done based on the topological view of the network, still on a layer and technology independent basis. In case (2), technology specific management capabilities are likely to be required by the craftperson following up on the problem. The remainder of this document defines the problem that motivates a layer and technology independent view of the network, and provides guidelines for the creation of a management architecture that would make such a view possible. Tom On 06/09/2014 6:10 AM, Jouni wrote: > > Tom, > > I had a read on this document. Good stuff. I have one lame comment though. The preamble building the "background and justification" is just too verbose and tries to address to many cases. When we get to problem statement part and the architecture part it was hard to put everything together in my head. I admit I have not spent much time on this specific topic but still.. I would try to illustrate the background with one concrete use case example that people can easily relate to and then state "there are other out there..". > > - Jouni > > > On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:43 PM, Tom Taylor wrote: > >> Qin Wu drafted me as editor of the Problem Statement I-D. >> >> There has been a lot of activity behind the scenes. When I was brought into the picture, I was given a version -03 of draft-ww-opsawg-multi-layer-oam as a starting point. This built on the published -02 version but had a lot more text up front and in the future work section. It also dropped "Architecture" from the title, removing it as a focus. >> >> My view was that the Problem Statement had to be tightly focussed precisely on that topic, and the future work section would become the core of a gap analysis document. This view was accepted. As a result, I have prepared an Editor's Proposal, draft-edprop-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-ps-00, which I plan to submit on Monday after some people have looked it over. It is much stripped down from the original text and has a lot of new text, but I hope it is not a shock to TIME/LIME participants. A key issue was extremely careful attention to terminology and nuances of meaning. >> >> The concluding Problem Statement section is fairly brief, so I'll quote it here: >> >> 5. Problem Statement >> >> Operators have a need for a management subsystem satisfying the >> objectives stated in Section 3. The analysis presented above >> indicates that the solution lies in the direction of a consolidated >> management function that operates in the first instance on a >> technology and layer independent view of network and service >> performance. >> >> There is value in attempting to define an architecture for >> consolidated management that may reasonably be argued to meet the >> stated objectives. If this attempt succeeds, it can be followed up >> with a gap analysis, which in turn will define a further program of >> standardization. >> >> At the detailed level, Section 4.3.1 and Section 4.3.2 deal with the >> matter of abstraction and its relationship to the specification of >> YANG modules. This is work beyond the initial definition of >> architecture and awaits justification and prioritization by the gap >> analysis. A similar consideration relates to the solution to the >> ECMP problem. >> >> The remaining issue is the OAM interworking issue identified in >> Section 4.3.3. This is architectural in nature, and should be >> addressed by the proposed work on architecture. >> >> Tom Taylor >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Time mailing list >> Time@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time > > _______________________________________________ Time mailing list Time@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/time From nobody Mon Sep 8 18:08:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B98C1A0344 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 18:08:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SImNOt8OlZMk for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 18:08:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x236.google.com (mail-ie0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 049C81A0342 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 18:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f182.google.com with SMTP id tr6so2410092ieb.27 for ; Mon, 08 Sep 2014 18:08:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Edtw5SMoYC3X5IggZsa2J2R6Wo7Ygy4qJJr+49EyFeY=; b=o3oqjDcypoGhQ9QXex+16LHTofhxubGAHYvr0ooAyKAOmxl/ZHdK+efHFXWQDKRHni VRhdQKERMOyON92OCcp7h3J8703eCnhYOvdmyOXLM+5vmltvt28f50EO9/fcnBASUAoa zrPrRzLqinjxQEiHwOg2p/beYO/h/gPUvqz/rkMEPJQbMe1igWZEMi59rr3sXTaOZBlz qC0t3u/7iK13FWWrTJTlaWKJBASoDXTfxM0kgk0MSh+AwqxAIRSt3KR6zHMS3/WUWhZE supnZJiJhTvBA7C2CM/6FxUUdboYRE1bjqJFwsM0kiijtaowqYaxIzfPJMBlvOqYPKiv EkXQ== X-Received: by 10.42.39.142 with SMTP id h14mr36329264ice.32.1410224898458; Mon, 08 Sep 2014 18:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.97.17] ([67.210.160.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id o20sm10522741igw.11.2014.09.08.18.08.17 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Sep 2014 18:08:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <540E52F6.2030308@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 21:08:06 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Daniel King , 'Jouni' References: <5409DA04.2020200@gmail.com> <461483BC-58E7-483D-8B81-FB15C015C4B7@gmail.com> <540CF8B2.10006@gmail.com> <008301cfcb9e$714d33f0$53e79bd0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <008301cfcb9e$714d33f0$53e79bd0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/EvmEGQkXyRT8_Vzor1kGhnJq5TU Cc: time@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Time] Editor's proposed draft of TIME/LIME Problem Statement X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 01:08:20 -0000 Thanks, Dan I also had a few helpful comments from Mishael Wexler regarding terminology and the problem statement itself to fold in. Given the announcement from the ADs, the work on the current PS seems to be overtaken by events, and attention should shift to drafting a charter. I'll do the updates to draft-edprop and submit it as a matter of record. Some of it should be useful in the charter drafting. Tom On 08/09/2014 3:52 PM, Daniel King wrote: > Hi Tom and Jouni, > > The vision statement for layer/technology independent management would be a > useful addition in the P-S document. > > Br, Dan. > ... From nobody Mon Sep 8 18:54:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E18521A0369 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 18:53:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.064 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.064 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3AXP9PGRkiqU for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 18:53:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 887C51A0360 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 18:53:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BJF07870; Tue, 09 Sep 2014 01:53:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.38) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 02:53:53 +0100 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.209]) by nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 09:53:45 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Tom Taylor , Jouni Thread-Topic: [Time] Editor's proposed draft of TIME/LIME Problem Statement Thread-Index: AQHPyalU4JMG30eSaUSJISQbv/6P1ZvzXEAAgAKCjwCAAixoYA== Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 01:53:44 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5409DA04.2020200@gmail.com> <461483BC-58E7-483D-8B81-FB15C015C4B7@gmail.com> <540CF8B2.10006@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <540CF8B2.10006@gmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/5UX46Py4oQcEFMfbtBtREWFZVmI Cc: "time@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Time] Editor's proposed draft of TIME/LIME Problem Statement X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." 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VGltZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby90aW1l DQo= From nobody Mon Sep 8 20:15:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1723F1A06E7 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:15:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.064 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.064 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vKtnBZpMuGOJ for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 585121A06E8 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:15:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BJF12873; Tue, 09 Sep 2014 03:15:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML410-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.41) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 04:15:43 +0100 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.209]) by nkgeml410-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 11:15:36 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Melinda Shore , "time@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Time] Editor's proposed draft of TIME/LIME Problem Statement Thread-Index: AQHPyalU4JMG30eSaUSJISQbv/6P1ZvzXEAAgAKCjwCAAC/cAIACByzQ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 03:15:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5409DA04.2020200@gmail.com> <461483BC-58E7-483D-8B81-FB15C015C4B7@gmail.com> <540CF8B2.10006@gmail.com> <540D20D8.6050704@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <540D20D8.6050704@gmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/F8zPjuUyO0YDuICP2kDqny2ELxY Subject: Re: [Time] Editor's proposed draft of TIME/LIME Problem Statement X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." 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ZQ0K From nobody Mon Sep 8 20:33:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A735E1A048F for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:33:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.402 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.402 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zaL1XUd1VMJF for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5FFF1A0415 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BJF13812; Tue, 09 Sep 2014 03:33:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.38) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 04:33:28 +0100 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.209]) by nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 11:33:23 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Benoit Claise , "time@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Time] OAM Initiative: Situation Thread-Index: AQHPyzsV5leRXFyR6UG18J0dy3VbNZv4JEaA Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 03:33:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <540B022E.3070601@cisco.com> <540D6249.205@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <540D6249.205@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845C151Bnkgeml501mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/zygsYgF-C-cGWZEKgXof8bCPsJY Cc: "ops-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Time] OAM Initiative: Situation X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 03:33:33 -0000 --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845C151Bnkgeml501mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhhbmsgQmVub2l0IGFuZCBKb2VsIGZvciB0aGUgdXBkYXRlIG9mIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IHN0YXR1 cy4NCqGwT0FNIGluaXRpYXRpdmWhsSBpcyBhIGdvb2QgbmFtZSwgSSB0aGluay4NCkl0IHJlbWlu ZCBtZSBJRVNHL0lBQiBhcnJhbmdlZCBhIEpvaW50IERlc2lnbiBTZXNzaW9uIG9uIEZvcndhcmRp bmcgUGxhbmUgT0FNDQpCZWZvcmUgdG8gZGlzY3VzcyB0dW5uZWxlZCBmb3J3YXJkaW5nIHBsYW5l IE9BTSwNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbC1hcmNoaXZlL3dlYi9vYW0vY3VycmVudC9t c2cwMDAzNy5odG1sDQoNCkhvd2V2ZXIgdGhlIHNjb3BlIG9mIHRoaXMgZGVzaWduIHNlc3Npb24g aXMgbGltaXRlZCB0byB0aGUgZm9yd2FyZGluZyBwbGFuZS4gUHJvcG9zYWxzIGNvbmNlcm5pbmcN Ck9uIGNvbnRyb2wvbWFuYWdlbWVudCBwbGFuZSB3YXMgbm90IHRvdWNoZWQuDQoNCkV2ZW4gdGhp cywgc29tZSBvZiB0aGVpciBwcm9wb3NhbCBtYXRjaGVzIHdoYXQgd2UgcHJvcG9zZWQgaW4gdGhl IFBTIGRyYWZ0IHJpZ2h0IG5vdywgLmUuZy4sDQpJbiBkcmFmdC1ib25pY2Etb2FtLWNvbnNpZGVy YXRpb25zLTAwLCBpdCBzYWlkOg0KobANClRoZSBBUEkgc2hvdWxkIGluc3VsYXRlIHRoZSB1c2Vy IGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIGZyb20gdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZw0KICAgZGV0YWlsczoNCg0KICAgICAgLSBU aGUgcHJvY2VkdXJlIHRoYXQgdGhlIE9BTSBtZWNoYW5pc20gZW1wbG95ZWQgdG8gb2J0YWluIE9B TQ0KICAgICAgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24NCg0KICAgICAgLSBXaGV0aGVyIHRoZSBPQU0gbWVjaGFuaXNt IGlzIGludGVncmF0ZWQgaW50byB0aGUgbG93ZXIgbGF5ZXINCiAgICAgIHByb3RvY29sDQoNCqGx DQpSZWdhcmRzIQ0KLVFpbg0Kt6K8/sjLOiBUaW1lIFttYWlsdG86dGltZS1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYu b3JnXSC0+rHtIEJlbm9pdCBDbGFpc2UNCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE0xOo51MI4yNUgMTY6MDENCsrV vP7IyzogdGltZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0Ks63LzTogb3BzLWFkc0B0b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZw0K1vfM4jog W1RpbWVdIE9BTSBJbml0aWF0aXZlOiBTaXR1YXRpb24NCg0KRGVhciBhbGwsDQoNCltMZXQgdXMg Y2FsbCB0aGlzICJPQU0gSW5pdGl0aWF2ZSIgZm9yIG5vdywgYXMgdGhlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdCBp cyBiZWluZyByZW5hbWVkIGZyb20gVElNRSB0byBMSU1FXQ0KRHVyaW5nIHRoZSBsYXN0IElFVEYg bWVldGluZywgdGhlcmUgd2VyZSB2YXJpb3VzIGRpc2N1c3Npb25zIHdpdGggZGlmZmVyZW50IGF1 ZGllbmNlcyByZWdhcmRpbmcgT0FNLg0KDQpIZXJlIGlzIHdoYXQgd2UgY29uY2x1ZGVkOg0KMS4g QnVpbGRpbmcgYW4gT0FNIGdlbmVyaWMgcHJvdG9jb2wgaXMgaW1wcmFjdGljYWwgZm9yIG11bHRp cGxlIHJlYXNvbnMuDQoyLiBJdCBpcyBkZXNpcmFibGUgdG8gaGF2ZSBhbiB1bmlmaWVkIHZpZXcg b2YgT0FNIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGF0IGVhY2ggbGF5ZXIsIGluIG9yZGVyIHRvIGNvcnJlbGF0ZSBp bmZvcm1hdGlvbiwgYW5kIGRldGVjdCB0aGUgZmF1bHR5IGVsZW1lbnQgaW4gdGhlIG5ldHdvcmsg cGF0aA0KMy4uIENvbnNpc3RlbnQgY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbiwgcmVwb3J0aW5nLCBhbmQgcHJlc2Vu dGF0aW9uIGZvciB0aGUgT0FNIG1lY2hhbmlzbXMgbWFrZXMgc2Vuc2UuDQo0LiBVc2luZyBZQU5H IGFzIGEgbW9kZWxpbmcgbGFuZ3VhZ2UgaXMgYSBsb2dpY2FsIGNob2ljZS4gTm90ZSB0aGF0IHRo ZXJlIGFyZSBhbHJlYWR5IHNvbWUgZWZmb3J0cyBpbiB0aGF0IGRpcmVjdGlvbg0KNS4gQSBzZXQg b2YgZ3VpZGVsaW5lcyBmb3IgZnV0dXJlIE9BTSBkZXZlbG9wbWVudHMgd291bGQgYmUgd2VsY29t ZSBmb3IgY29uc2lzdGVuY3kgc2FrZQ0KV2UgYWxzbyBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgaXMgc3Vm ZmljaWVudCBpbnRlcmVzdCB0byBzdGFydCB3b3JraW5nIG9uIGEgY2hhcnRlciBwcm9wb3NhbC4N ClJlZ2FyZHMsIEpvZWwgYW5kIEJlbm9pdCAoT1BTIEFEcykNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0K DQoNCg0KKiAgICAgICAgIFdlIHNob3VsZCBwcmVzZXJ2ZSB0aGUgZXhpc3RpbmcgT0FNIHRlY2hu b2xvZ3kgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25zIGFuZCBiZWhhdmlvciChsG9uLXRoZS13aXJlobENCg0KKiAg ICAgICAgIFdlIHdpbGwgcHJvcG9zZSBhIHVuaWZpZWQgbWFuYWdlbWVudCBpbnRlcmZhY2UgZm9y IG11bHRpcGxlIE9BTSB0ZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgdGhhdCB3aWxsIGV4cG9zZSBhIGNvbW1vbiBzZXQg b2YgbWFuYWdlbWVudCBpbnRlcmZhY2UgY2FwYWJpbGl0aWVzIGZvciBkaWZmZXJlbnQgT0FNIHRl Y2hub2xvZ2llcyAoZS5nLiBwaW5nLCB0cmFjZXJvdXRlKQ0KDQoqICAgICAgICAgVGhlIG1hbmFn ZW1lbnQgaW50ZXJmYWNlIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIHdpbGwgY29udmVydCB0aGUgZGVmaW5lZCBj b21tb24gbWFuYWdlbWVudCBjYXBhYmlsaXRpZXMgdG8gdGhlIE9BTSB0ZWNobm9sb2d5IHNwZWNp ZmljIG9wZXJhdGlvbnMNCg0KKiAgICAgICAgIFdlIHdpbGwgbW9kZWwgT0FNIG9wZXJhdGlvbnMg bWFuYWdlbWVudCB1c2luZyBZQU5HIGZvbGxvd2luZw0KDQoNCiogICAgICAgICBTcGVjaWZpYyBP QU0gdGVjaG5vbG9neSBtb2RlbHMgd2lsbCBhdWdtZW50IHRoZSBnZW5lcmljIE9BTSBtYW5hZ2Vt ZW50IG1vZGVsDQoNCiogICAgICAgICBDaXNjbyB3aWxsIHN1cHBvcnQgY29udGludWVkIGRldmVs b3BtZW50IG9mIHRlY2hub2xvZ3kgc3BlY2lmaWMgT0FNIHN0YW5kYXJkcyB3aXRoaW4gdGhlIGFw cHJvcHJpYXRlIElFVEYgdGVjaG5vbG9neSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3Vwcw0KDQoqICAgICAgICAgV2Ug d2lsbCBwcm9tb3RlIGdlbmVyaWMgT0FNIGluIHRoZSBJRVRGIE9QUyBXb3JraW5nIEdyb3VwDQoN CiogICAgICAgICBXZSB3aWxsIHByb3Bvc2UgYSBzZXQgb2YgZ3VpZGVsaW5lcyBuZXcgT0FNIHRl Y2hub2xvZ3kgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25zIHNob3VsZCBmb2xsb3cNCiogICAgICAgICBXZSB3aWxs IGludmVzdGlnYXRlIG1ldGhvZHMgZm9yIHNjYWxpbmcgdGhlIHJldHVybiBvZiBsYXJnZSB2b2x1 bWVzIG9mIE9BTSBkYXRhIGZyb20gdGhlIG5ldHdvcmsNCg0K --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845C151Bnkgeml501mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thank Beno= it and Joel for the update of the current status.

=A1=B0OAM = initiative=A1=B1 is a good name, I think.

It remind = me IESG/IAB arranged a Joint Design Session on Forwarding Plane OAM

Before to = discuss tunneled forwarding plane OAM,

http://www= .ietf.org/mail-archive/web/oam/current/msg00037.html<= /p>

 = ;

However th= e scope of this design session is limited to the forwarding plane. Proposal= s concerning

On control= /management plane was not touched.

 = ;

Even this,= some of their proposal matches what we proposed in the PS draft right now,= .e.g.,

In draft-b= onica-oam-considerations-00, it said:

=A1=B0

The API sh= ould insulate the user application from the following

 &nbs= p; details:

 = ;

 &nbs= p;    - The procedure that the OAM mechanism employed to obt= ain OAM

 &nbs= p;    information

 = ;

 &nbs= p;    - Whether the OAM mechanism is integrated into the low= er layer

 &nbs= p;    protocol

 = ;

=A1=B1

Regards!

-Qin<= /o:p>

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB:= Time [mailto:time-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Benoit Claise
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:<= span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=CB=CE=CC=E5;colo= r:windowtext"> 2014=C4=EA9=D4=C28=C8=D5 16:01
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: time@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: ops-ads@tools.ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [Time] OAM Initiative: Situation

 

Dear all,

[Let us call this "OAM Inititiave" for now, as the mailing list i= s being renamed from TIME to LIME]

During the last IETF meeting, there were vari= ous discussions with different audiences regarding OAM.

Here is what we concluded:
1. Building an OAM generic protocol is impractical for multiple reasons. 2. It is desirable to have an unified view of OAM information at each layer= , in order to correlate information, and detect the faulty element in the n= etwork path
3.. Consistent configuration, reporting, and presentation for the OAM mecha= nisms makes sense.
4. Using YANG as a modeling language is a logical choice. Note that there a= re already some efforts in that direction
5. A set of guidelines for future OAM developments would be welcome for con= sistency sake

We also believe that there is sufficient inte= rest to start working on a charter proposal.

Regards, Joel and Benoit (OPS ADs)=

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

=A1=A4         We should preserve the existing OAM technology = implementations and behavior =A1=B0on-the-wire=A1=B1

=A1=A4         We will propose a unified management interface = for multiple OAM technologies that will expose a common set of management i= nterface capabilities for different OAM technologies (e.g. ping, traceroute= )

=A1=A4         The management interface implementation will co= nvert the defined common management capabilities to the OAM technology spec= ific operations

=A1=A4         We will model OAM operations management using Y= ANG following

=A1=A4         Specific OAM technology models will augment the= generic OAM management model

=A1=A4         Cisco will support continued development of tec= hnology specific OAM standards within the appropriate IETF technology worki= ng groups

=A1=A4         We will promote generic OAM in the IETF OPS Wor= king Group

=A1=A4         We will propose a set of guidelines new OAM tec= hnology implementations should follow

= =A1=A4  &nb= sp;      We will investigate methods for scaling the ret= urn of large volumes of OAM data from the network

 

--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845C151Bnkgeml501mbschi_-- From nobody Tue Sep 9 06:49:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C2F1A02EC for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 06:49:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R4esBO6T5w9C for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 06:49:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x234.google.com (mail-ie0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 740911A034D for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 06:49:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f180.google.com with SMTP id rd18so2688951iec.25 for ; Tue, 09 Sep 2014 06:49:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=j21QOPvwQcOXk+0PoNktzN2l+kyiiPi5ZKJRpOM92Ck=; b=hnXdq44KtscC0/XUqfnMUR4M3CxkhwIjYPySYxaFlJpAUNU+qXgxVxSrEvqpQPiBZ2 AD4my39zPyxmYuumRTSzNiRUaEnuWSjSJ1OBgNdTZ3Dr/f0jygw4qXE01EQZMj1322aa bBK36ttuSmH71APFJlwfbBecYOgU5HC2CNAwkfYt5Iq+ASDqz6Ifkg3ltNzmauTSuLLS 3Rf+jD0DUOxwMX3AjqEKK7ISkH3HGWl6Of6iaZubD5kY7GE7zcBPtVj/OW62IQslXVdp 5ovNaQiqa6v1gory0csF9M6p6SNCqWPcg46ac7ciBJNd/p6/uZuzMd3SCCFa7mj+WS9a 4Avw== X-Received: by 10.50.142.68 with SMTP id ru4mr32347359igb.18.1410270586849; Tue, 09 Sep 2014 06:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.97.17] ([67.210.160.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j4sm11880532igx.20.2014.09.09.06.49.45 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 09 Sep 2014 06:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <540F0579.6050608@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 09:49:45 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "time@ietf.org" References: <20140909133445.14121.45700.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140909133445.14121.45700.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20140909133445.14121.45700.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/3wzny0rivA0t8LBViRwxXVoE3Qg Cc: Qin Wu , Mishael Wexler Subject: [Time] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-edprop-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-ps-00.txt X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 13:49:49 -0000 I've submitted the Editor's Proposal for the Problem Statement. As I said earlier, this could provide source material for the charter, but basically appears to be overtaken by events. I did notice an editorial glitch in Sec. 6, where I moved some terminology up to Sec. 2 but failed to clean up. I can fix that, but I think that's as far as we want to go for the moment. Regarding authorship: I reverted to the technical definition of author. I understand that a lot of the text I worked with came from from Qin and Mishael in the first place. The list of Contributors indicates those people who added text or strongly influenced the development of the document. I'm sorry if anyone feels betrayed by these changes, but if the document does go further, I imagine the usual political adjustments to authorship will take place. Tom Taylor -------- Original Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-edprop-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-ps-00.txt Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 06:34:45 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Tom Taylor , Qin Wu , Mishael Wexler , T. Taylor , Mishael Wexler , Qin Wu A new version of I-D, draft-edprop-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-ps-00.txt has been successfully submitted by T. Taylor and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-edprop-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-ps Revision: 00 Title: Problem Statement for Layer and Technology Independent OAM in a Multi- Layer Environment Document date: 2014-09-09 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 17 URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-edprop-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-ps-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-edprop-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-ps/ Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-edprop-opsawg-multi-layer-oam-ps-00 Abstract: Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) mechanisms are critical building blocks in network operations. They used for service fulfillment assurance, and for service diagnosis, troubleshooting, and repair. The current practice is that many technologies rely on their own OAM protocols and procedures that are exclusive to a given layer. At present, there is little consolidation of OAM in the management plane or well-documented inter-layer OAM operation. Vendors and operators dedicate significant resources and effort through the whole OAM life-cycle each time a new technology is introduced. This is exacerbated when dealing with integration of OAM into overlay networks, which require better OAM visibility since there is no method to exchange OAM information between overlay and underlay. This document analyzes the problem space for multi-layer OAM in the management plane with a focus on layer and technology independent OAM management considerations. It concludes that an attempt to define an architecture for consolidated management should be undertaken, and if this attempt satisfies key objectives, a gap analysis and a program of standardization should follow. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From nobody Tue Sep 9 07:37:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC0D1A6FB2 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 07:37:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.153 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.153 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7YZXSmwz4bsS for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 07:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 486F01A6FB0 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 07:37:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2044; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1410273470; x=1411483070; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NEhGzBxZnblgpBN5d9wx24qLk2Z4BYq7hxp68VcEkP8=; b=h/HUAUT/7dHR/tE56m2oemT9K5fdjCr7o3Fh4bMzykQYka+m1sIbpqOg lHY5MLJV470f/UZnpR7OsqUwfJsnZlTvJrJsitP7/zFcIIQ5AEc5ZTzz9 b0Ux/xC9pP3XDRLbdhBFb3gwXB/KPKaM4b1EIpKi6+tjpIkHapuMd9zQW w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqIEAH0QD1StJssW/2dsb2JhbABZ0w+DHwGBI3iEAwEBAQMBODYKBgsLGAkMCg8JAwIBAgFFBgEMCAEBiDYIvFgBF49UCoRCAQSYLYRGh0GNbYNjO4J+AQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,491,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="167111657" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Sep 2014 14:37:47 +0000 Received: from [10.149.0.247] (dhcp-10-149-0-247.cisco.com [10.149.0.247]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s89EbjRO004022; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 14:37:45 GMT Message-ID: <540F10B9.9090400@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 16:37:45 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Taylor , time@ietf.org References: <540B022E.3070601@cisco.com> <540D6249.205@cisco.com> <540DCD05.3030508@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <540DCD05.3030508@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/4vE4Sffz6VbxTP8yvD3YjDgA5ww Subject: Re: [Time] OAM Initiative: Situation - Sketch of a charter X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 14:37:51 -0000 Hi Tom, > It seems to me, taking Melinda's remarks into account, that the one > work item missing from this announcement is the means whereby > management is tied together along a path. The original TIME/LIME > proposal spoke in terms of discovery by a centralized management > application. Exactly. Interesting that the problem statement changed along the time. > Melinda suggests path-coupled management messages, possibly > intercepted by management modules in varying sorts of devices along > that path. Would this be an appropriate item of exploration within the > charter? This point was not discussed in details during the last meeting. Let's keep in mind that there were no BoF but two quick presentations in OPSAWG and the Routing Area. My point is: shouldn't we start by walking before running, i.e. focusing first on consistent configuration, reporting, and presentation for the centralized management? Regards, Benoit > > Tom Taylor > > On 08/09/2014 4:01 AM, Benoit Claise wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> [Let us call this "OAM Inititiave" for now, as the mailing list is being >> renamed from TIME to LIME] >> >> During the last IETF meeting, there were various discussions with >> different audiences regarding OAM. >> >> Here is what we concluded: >> 1. Building an OAM generic protocol is impractical for multiple reasons. >> 2. It is desirable to have an unified view of OAM information at each >> layer, in order to correlate information, and detect the faulty element >> in the network path >> 3.. Consistent configuration, reporting, and presentation for the OAM >> mechanisms makes sense. >> 4. Using YANG as a modeling language is a logical choice. Note that >> there are already some efforts in that direction >> 5. A set of guidelines for future OAM developments would be welcome for >> consistency sake >> >> We also believe that there is sufficient interest to start working on a >> charter proposal. >> >> Regards, Joel and Benoit (OPS ADs) >> > ... > . > From nobody Tue Sep 9 19:34:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22EAD1A0360 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 19:34:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y1S7hy7CvNFQ for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 19:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22b.google.com (mail-ie0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E4131A0348 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 19:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f171.google.com with SMTP id y20so292330ier.2 for ; Tue, 09 Sep 2014 19:33:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TQlRYq5ry6ku5yU/UyvQxFUDiN5VNY7aiE6mUzwK8Xc=; b=YAx5UjZDeWW/gcGMlmKPMkn06a5H7PzqrtDT+pTfWmqF6VDvIX2kz58Zt84vAdIbMG Rs0HLq+ibN4K7Ckk9zvFa4Rdkl/J6RVM2V6454NxXuwWLUSJFKE5vJ/w0stBsTnmDipd +b6sJLx0Pke+1ibHikmKFObYhtGtKfASQgPCFr2TLaiiAtgKdczJNF7VsiIK8X8+PP7v ASGizh4YM90a9Gm9tARX06JF1qX5GnF7Xmy8C97V5iOUcoZu/5GhAqEp4cSiDuagWwDH lTbxfjpwqJFvA+RNA1JVLPoJ4eVrjLWgwtX1cpAW+br7WCoRoT2+8vvO3WR+CQ+pI+le fkrg== X-Received: by 10.42.86.145 with SMTP id u17mr2355264icl.20.1410316437487; Tue, 09 Sep 2014 19:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.97.18] ([67.210.160.130]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w8sm859821igl.13.2014.09.09.19.33.56 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 09 Sep 2014 19:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <540FB894.20406@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 22:33:56 -0400 From: Tom Taylor User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benoit Claise , time@ietf.org References: <540B022E.3070601@cisco.com> <540D6249.205@cisco.com> <540DCD05.3030508@gmail.com> <540F10B9.9090400@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <540F10B9.9090400@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/SWZlmTm6vGVochIzobxFG9I5nd0 Subject: Re: [Time] OAM Initiative: Situation - Sketch of a charter X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 02:34:00 -0000 On 09/09/2014 10:37 AM, Benoit Claise wrote: > Hi Tom, > >> It seems to me, taking Melinda's remarks into account, that the one >> work item missing from this announcement is the means whereby >> management is tied together along a path. The original TIME/LIME >> proposal spoke in terms of discovery by a centralized management >> application. > Exactly. Interesting that the problem statement changed along the time. [PTT] Personally, I'd be happy to go with discovery by a centralized management application as the objective. >> Melinda suggests path-coupled management messages, possibly >> intercepted by management modules in varying sorts of devices along >> that path. Would this be an appropriate item of exploration within the >> charter? [PTT] I had not intended to focus on Melinda's proposal in my note, but on the whole topic of discovery. In any event, I can see where discovery can be carved off, though it has to be done eventually. > This point was not discussed in details during the last meeting. Let's > keep in mind that there were no BoF but two quick presentations in > OPSAWG and the Routing Area. > My point is: shouldn't we start by walking before running, i.e. focusing > first on consistent configuration, reporting, and presentation for the > centralized management? [PTT] Yes, this has clear priority given that there may be related work in progress already. > > Regards, Benoit >> >> Tom Taylor >> >> On 08/09/2014 4:01 AM, Benoit Claise wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> >>> [Let us call this "OAM Inititiave" for now, as the mailing list is being >>> renamed from TIME to LIME] >>> >>> During the last IETF meeting, there were various discussions with >>> different audiences regarding OAM. >>> >>> Here is what we concluded: >>> 1. Building an OAM generic protocol is impractical for multiple reasons. >>> 2. It is desirable to have an unified view of OAM information at each >>> layer, in order to correlate information, and detect the faulty element >>> in the network path >>> 3.. Consistent configuration, reporting, and presentation for the OAM >>> mechanisms makes sense. >>> 4. Using YANG as a modeling language is a logical choice. Note that >>> there are already some efforts in that direction >>> 5. A set of guidelines for future OAM developments would be welcome for >>> consistency sake >>> >>> We also believe that there is sufficient interest to start working on a >>> charter proposal. >>> >>> Regards, Joel and Benoit (OPS ADs) >>> >> ... >> . >> > > From nobody Wed Sep 10 19:04:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F14DF1A0322 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 19:04:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.064 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.064 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZPZgu1iNwusm for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 19:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD9881A0313 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 19:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BMK73347; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 02:04:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.33) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 03:03:39 +0100 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.209]) by nkgeml402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 10:03:33 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Benoit Claise , Tom Taylor , "time@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Time] OAM Initiative: Situation - Sketch of a charter Thread-Index: AQHPy3q+XrvFxMfZE0OjF9YXiJqj+5v4WiuAgALO41A= Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 02:03:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: <540B022E.3070601@cisco.com> <540D6249.205@cisco.com> <540DCD05.3030508@gmail.com> <540F10B9.9090400@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <540F10B9.9090400@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/GbRa94RIHwRhHAPX1hcZWmUrFlk Subject: Re: [Time] OAM Initiative: Situation - Sketch of a charter X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." 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Pj4gV2UgYWxzbyBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgaXMgc3VmZmljaWVudCBpbnRlcmVzdCB0byBz dGFydCB3b3JraW5nIG9uIA0KPj4gYSBjaGFydGVyIHByb3Bvc2FsLg0KPj4NCj4+IFJlZ2FyZHMs IEpvZWwgYW5kIEJlbm9pdCAoT1BTIEFEcykNCj4+DQo+IC4uLg0KPiAuDQo+DQoNCl9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpUaW1lIG1haWxpbmcgbGlz dA0KVGltZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby90 aW1lDQo= From nobody Thu Sep 11 23:26:58 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CCF1A0005 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:26:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.852 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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Thread-Topic: [Time] Fwd: New Liaison Statement, "Liaison to IETF on YANG Service OAM models" Thread-Index: AQHPyz0w3Tz+hCcPY0ei/vkmJvN+mZv9DPwg Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 06:26:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20140820200806.30600.80876.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <540D65BE.5010302@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <540D65BE.5010302@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA845C2BC6nkgeml501mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/jZbryhVnKPAIxVa76M4VvlQXTLo Subject: Re: [Time] Fwd: New Liaison Statement, "Liaison to IETF on YANG Service OAM models" X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." 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boundary="_000_9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C89AD33AZFFEXMB04globa_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/V80yiJ--XeHqjcZGmYoW8rSdi_E Subject: Re: [Time] Fwd: New Liaison Statement, "Liaison to IETF on YANG Service OAM models" X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." 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[80.57.215.85]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id u10sm9548702wix.2.2014.09.14.14.46.39 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 14 Sep 2014 14:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <54160CBE.4000508@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 23:46:38 +0200 From: Huub van Helvoort User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: time@ietf.org References: <20140820200806.30600.80876.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <540D65BE.5010302@cisco.com> <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C89AD33@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> In-Reply-To: <9904FB1B0159DA42B0B887B7FA8119CA5C89AD33@AZ-FFEXMB04.global.avaya.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/HOYYRrcCvWCvaOhfqEzoSrXCsCc Subject: Re: [Time] Fwd: New Liaison Statement, "Liaison to IETF on YANG Service OAM models" X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: huubatwork@gmail.com List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:46:45 -0000 Hello Dan, You write: > My opinion is that the IETF should be involved in the development of > data models (using YANG or other Data Modeling Languages) only when > these model IETF technologies (for example routing protocols). I agree. This should be starting point of the development. > Data > models (using YANG or other DMLs) that refer to technologies developed > out of the IETF (like layer 2 protocols, or ITU-T OAM) should be > developed by the respective organizations. Indeed. And what we can do is ask other SDOs if they would like to be involved in developing a generic DML. Then they can also share their network objectives to develop such a model. > If Generic multi-layer OAM is defined by the IETF, a possible data model > can be developed here. Yes. Regards, Huub. -- ***************************************************************** 请记住，你是独一无二的，就像其他每一个人一样 From nobody Sun Sep 14 18:41:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4F4A1A0481; Sun, 14 Sep 2014 18:41:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.064 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.064 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SpSeKT3aLfw1; Sun, 14 Sep 2014 18:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7FD11A047E; Sun, 14 Sep 2014 18:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BJK28617; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 01:41:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.37) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 02:41:41 +0100 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.21]) by nkgeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.37]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 09:41:34 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Benoit Claise , "time@ietf.org" , "lime@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Time] Mailing list name change request: from TIME to LIME Thread-Index: AQHPyPoS6duZ5hQUNU6uUEZ7ikwqGJwBeByw Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 01:41:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <54099A2E.2040102@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <54099A2E.2040102@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/GON60USnG6xZLUcXy9J_EmPfKok Cc: "ops-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Time] Mailing list name change request: from TIME to LIME X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 01:41:45 -0000 SGksDQpUYWxraW5nIHdpdGggdG9vbHMgcGVvcGxlLCBNYWlsbWFuIGRvZXMgbm90IHN1cHBvcnQg bGlzdCBuYW1lIGNoYW5nZXMuDQpTbyB0b29scyBwZW9wbGUgaGVscCB1cyBjcmVhdGUgYSBuZXcg bGlzdCBsaW1lQGlldGYub3JnIHRoYXQgaXMgc3VwcG9zZWQgdG8gcmVwbGFjZSB0aW1lQGlldGYu b3JnLg0KQWxsIHBlb3BsZSBzdWJzY3JpYmVkIHRvIFRJTUUgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGF1dG9tYXRpY2Fs bHkgc3Vic2NyaWJlZCB0byBMSU1FLg0KDQpXZSB3aWxsIHNlZSBob3cgdG8gbW92ZSBkaXNjdXNz aW9uIHRvIHRoZSBuZXcgbGlzdCBsaW1lQGlldGYub3JnLiBUaGFua3MhDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMhDQot UWluDQotLS0tLdPKvP7Urbz+LS0tLS0NCreivP7IyzogVGltZSBbbWFpbHRvOnRpbWUtYm91bmNl c0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gtPqx7SBCZW5vaXQgQ2xhaXNlDQq3osvNyrG85DogMjAxNMTqOdTCNcjVIDE5 OjExDQrK1bz+yMs6IHRpbWVAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCrOty806IG9wcy1hZHNAdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcN Ctb3zOI6IFtUaW1lXSBNYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QgbmFtZSBjaGFuZ2UgcmVxdWVzdDogZnJvbSBUSU1F IHRvIExJTUUNCg0KRGVhciBhbGwsDQoNCkJhc2VkIG9uIHRoZSBmZWVkYmFjayByZWNlaXZlZCBk dXJpbmcgdGhlIGxhc3QgSUVURiBtZWV0aW5nLCB0aGUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IG5hbWUgaGFzIGJl ZW4gY29uZnVzaW5nLg0KQSBmZXcgTlRQLWludGVyZXN0ZWQgcGVvcGxlIHNob3dlZCB1cCBpbiBv dXIgbWVldGluZ3MuLi4gYW5kIHdoZXJlIGRpc2FwcG9pbnRlZCA6LSkNCg0KSSBqdXN0IGFwcHJv dmVkIHRoZSBuYW1lIGNoYW5nZSBmcm9tIFRJTUUgdG8gTElNRTogTGF5ZXIgSW5kZXBlbmRlbnQg T0FNIE1hbmFnZW1lbnQgaW4gdGhlIG11bHRpLWxheWVyIGVudmlyb25tZW50IChMSU1FKS4NCg0K QWxsIHBlb3BsZSBzdWJzY3JpYmVkIHRvIFRJTUUgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGF1dG9tYXRpY2FsbHkgc3Vi c2NyaWJlZCB0byBMSU1FLg0KV2UgYWRkZWQgYSBzcGVjaWFsIG5vdGUgdG8gbW92ZSB0aGUgVElN RSBhcmNoaXZlIHRvIExJTUUuIExldCdzIHNlZSBpZiB0aGlzIGlzIHBvc3NpYmxlOiBJJ2xsIGtl ZXAgeW91IHBvc3RlZC4NCg0KUmVnYXJkcywgQmVub2l0DQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpUaW1lIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KVGltZUBpZXRm Lm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby90aW1lDQo= From nobody Mon Sep 15 02:01:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: time@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B4E31A02ED; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 02:01:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.064 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.064 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qyaQGj9uBl5p; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 02:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89BBE1A0240; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 02:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BJK63386; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 09:01:06 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.35) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 10:01:05 +0100 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.21]) by nkgeml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 17:01:01 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "lime@ietf.org" , "time@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Welcome to the "Lime" mailing list Thread-Index: AQHPzq/jqyeEoQPPP0aoqrU/IALEpJwB5piQ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 09:01:00 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/time/KSKwTcXzQ7E3epnzBo3KgguOCFk Cc: Benoit Claise Subject: Re: [Time] Welcome to the "Lime" mailing list X-BeenThere: time@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Transport Independent OAM in Multi-Layer network Entity \(TIME\) discussion list." 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