Subject: [Tools-discuss] [Fwd: Re: New tool prototypes]

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:06:36 +0100

Forwarding an interesting note from Fred Baker on the wg chairs list,
relevant to the notification services in general and the draft
notifications draft in particular.

	Henrik

Subject: Re: New tool prototypes
From: Baker Fred <[email-masked]>
To: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Cc: WG Chairs <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 10:20:14 -0800

Thanks much for this.

I have been looking at what the best way might be to stay on top of 
changes in drafts related to a working group. I have been thinking 
about possibly using one of the paid or free "web site watching" 
services, or installing one of several PERL or AppleScript applications 
on my own computer. It would be *really*nice* if somewhere, perhaps in 
the I-D tracker, a "tickle" function could be installed.

What I'm looking for is, as a working group chair, to have the working 
group chairs notified by email whenever a new draft is posted that 
claims to have relevance to my WG. That would be any draft-ietf-<wg> 
draft, or any personal submission draft-<name>-<wg>. There are four 
possible actions that I was WG chair might then do:

  - draft-<name>-<wg>-*-00.txt
	invite discussion on the WG mailer, with a view to determining whether 
this is really appropriate to the WG and is really a good solution to 
its stated problem

  - other draft-<name>-<wg>-*
	discuss draft with authors

  - draft-ietf-<wg>-*-00.txt
	note to working group encouraging people to comment on the mailer

  - other draft-ietf-<wg>-*
	note to authors copying WG asking them to summarize changes and 
inviting discussion

In addition, whenever the ID tracker changes status for my WG (at most 
once per day), I would like myself and my co-chair to receive an email 
noting that there was a change and summarizing the change. For example, 
it might include as an attachment the html page that would result from 
opening the ID tracker and typing in my WG's name, but with diff 
marking highlighting what changed (the state of a given draft changed 
or whatever).

In addition, whenever the ID tracker changes *detail* status for a 
draft in my WG (at most once per day), I want the authors to be sent a 
note, copying the chairs and the WG, indicating the state change and 
containing the URL. For example, if an AD enters a note, the authors 
would get a tickle email. I would (obviously) have to say who the 
authors were.

I can do part of that from services like http://www.changedetect.com/, 
and maybe that is the right solution in the near term. What the 
services I see won't give me is the ability to list other recipients 
for the email like my co-chair or the authors, or the WG, or to tell me 
about new drafts being posted. So I'm not completely wacko...

Maybe I just need to do some scripting?

On Mar 4, 2005, at 4:08 AM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:

>
> Two prototypes of new tools for the IETF community are now available 
> from
> the Tools-team website, http://tools.ietf.org/ :
>    1. Workgroup agenda pages with embedded html links to all drafts 
> and URLs
>    referred to in the agendas: http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/62/
>
>    2. Workgroup status pages showing the current status of the drafts
>    belonging to a workgroup: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/
>
> There are links from the html-ized agenda page to both the html-ized WG
> agendas and to the WG status pages, and links from the WG status pages 
> to the
> WG agendas.
>
> As these are prototypes, they are not expected to be perfect or 
> complete,
> but they are expected to be useful to the community as-is, and comments
> on functionality, missing features and bugs are welcome!
>
> Comments will be taken as input to specification of full-fledged 
> versions
> of similar tools, and may also be fed back into the prototypes.
>
>
> 	Henrik
>
> _______________________________________________
> IETF-Announce mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
>

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---

From: Tony Hansen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 16:25:19 -0500

I think what Fred is proposing would have lots of uses, not only for WG 
chairs but for anyone who is interested in the documents of a particular 
set of working groups.

Of course, it assumes and perpetuates the notion that WG documents are 
named draft-ietf-WG, a topic that was recently discussed separately.

	Tony Hansen
	[email-masked]

Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> changes in drafts related to a working group. I have been thinking about 
> possibly using one of the paid or free "web site watching" services, or 
> installing one of several PERL or AppleScript applications on my own 
> computer. It would be *really*nice* if somewhere, perhaps in the I-D 
> tracker, a "tickle" function could be installed.
> 
>     invite discussion on the WG mailer, with a view to determining 
> whether this is really appropriate to the WG and is really a good 
> solution to its stated problem
> 
> opening the ID tracker and typing in my WG's name, but with diff marking 
> highlighting what changed (the state of a given draft changed or whatever).
> 
> In addition, whenever the ID tracker changes *detail* status for a draft 
> in my WG (at most once per day), I want the authors to be sent a note, 
> copying the chairs and the WG, indicating the state change and 
> and maybe that is the right solution in the near term. What the services 
> I see won't give me is the ability to list other recipients for the 
> email like my co-chair or the authors, or the WG, or to tell me about 
> new drafts being posted. So I'm not completely wacko...
>

---

From: Baker Fred <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:08:57 -0800

> named draft-ietf-WG, a topic that was recently discussed separately.

In my WG, they are...

But that said, I have 38 sites I am monitoring, 36 of which are 
documents somewhere in the IETF mill, about 8 of which are mine 
personally. The concept, as you say, is in no sense limited to WG 
documents.

---

From: "Alex Rousskov" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 11:58:49 -0700

> notifications draft in particular.

IMO, the current notification draft (or its intent) should already address  
most Fred's needs. The one important feature that we need to think about  
is aggregating of events. Fred wants "one notification about X per day".  
Current draft does not seem to address it well. We need to decide where  
aggregation fits into the notification architecture. Note that aggregation  
is yet another argument for having a generic layer because most  
aggregation logic is likely to be independent from the event generator  
type.

Thanks,

Alex.