Subject: [Tools-discuss] w3c schema valdation web tool

From: Jari Urpalainen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:50:59 +0300

Hi all !
I have written a small apache module to handle w3c schema validation 
with the Xerces C++ library. The validation tool is available at 
<http://validate.openlaboratory.net/>. If there's any interest I could 
also opensource this module (although it may take some time...).  
Anyway, I'd appreciate any comments or improvement requests. So this 
tool could be added to the available authoring tools if there's any 
interest,
br Jari
ps. submitting this tool does not mean that I'd like the w3c schema 
language (there are better tools available imo). However, it is the 
prevailing  standard.

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From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:53:21 +0200

Hi Jari,

> tool could be added to the available authoring tools if there's any 

Looks like a nice tool.  Should be added to the tools inventory on
http://tools.ietf.org/  Would you be kind enough to look at the tools
inventory pages there - e.g., http://tools.ietf.org/verif-tools, 
http://tools.ietf.org/author-tools, and suggest an entry for your
tool.  

Regards,

	Henrik

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From: Carsten Bormann <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:00:23 +0200

On Oct 13 2005, at 16:53 Uhr, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:

>> submitting this tool does not mean that I'd like the w3c schema

At some point, we probably should agree to do IETF development of XML  
Schemas in Relax-NG (Compact).
It is easy to generate W3C Schemas from RNC -- more food for the  
tools page.

Gruesse, Carsten

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From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:12:57 +0200

Hi Carsten,

> It is easy to generate W3C Schemas from RNC -- more food for the  

With respect to using Relax-NG compact I totally agree - I might go so
far as to say that it's the only tolerable schema specification format
for XML I've come across.

	Henrik

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From: Larry Masinter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:55:36 -0700

> > Schemas in Relax-NG (Compact).

The debate about validation mechanisms frequently becomes a religious
one.  In particular, this was a hot topic in the development of
RFC 3470, BCP 70, on "Guidelines for the use of XML in IETF protocols".

Do you mean that you intend to try to get IETF consensus to update BCP 70
to recommend Relax-NG over other mechanisms for expressing XML validity?

See the discussion around June 2002 in

http://www.imc.org/ietf-xml-use/mail-archive/maillist.html

Larry
--
http://larry.masinter.net

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From: Carsten Bormann <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:14:00 +0200

> to recommend Relax-NG over other mechanisms for expressing XML  

Well, BCP 70 does the right thing and leaves the selection of the  
validation mechanism to the standardization process.
(Clearly, depending on existing context, in some cases only W3C  
schemas might fit and occasionally there are even reasons to use DTDs.)

Still, on the level of "best current practice", I wouldn't mind a  
stronger guideline of "default" development strategy:
Develop in RNC, express in both RNC (for readability) and W3C Schema  
where the latter is required for some reason.

Fortunately, section 4.10 already discourages dependence on the PSVI.

Some time has passed since the 2002 discussions that led to BCP 70.
XML-heavy WGs seem to group around RNC already (e.g., atompub).
I'm more concerned with WGs where XML schemas are more ancillary;  
these are the ones that would benefit most from additional guidance.

(This answer is just for clarification; we are leaving the domain of  
the tools group if we want to continue this discussion.
None of this is in any way detracting from the usefulness of a W3C  
schema validation tool on the IETF tools page.)

Gruesse, Carsten

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From: Jari Urpalainen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:30:48 +0300

>http://tools.ietf.org/author-tools, and suggest an entry for your
How about W3C Schema validation tool utilizing Xerces under

http://tools.ietf.org/verif-tools

>>language (there are better tools available imo). However, it is the 
And yes it would be really really nice if WGs adopted Relax NG 
(unfortunately there seems to be some ;) resistance, but let's keep 
trying...). And btw. I might add RNG validator as well as a convert tool 
from w3c schema to rng onto the web page, too.
thanks,
Jari

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From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:34:00 +0200

on 2005-10-14 08:30 Jari Urpalainen said the following:
[...]
> http://tools.ietf.org/verif-tools

Done!

> from w3c schema to rng onto the web page, too.

Sounds good.  Let me know if I need to update the tools page.

	Henrik