From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 05 20:10:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOOCJ-0005rk-9y; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 20:10:35 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOOCI-0005rX-Fr for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 20:10:34 -0500 Received: from c-69-181-78-47.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([69.181.78.47] helo=delta.rtfm.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOOCE-0002Wu-6v for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2007 20:10:34 -0500 Received: from networkresonance.com (localhost.rtfm.com [127.0.0.1]) by delta.rtfm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 771371CC24 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2007 17:09:38 -0800 (PST) To: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailer: MH-E 7.4.2; nmh 1.2; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 20) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:09:38 -0800 From: EKR Message-Id: <20070306010938.771371CC24@delta.rtfm.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Subject: [Tools-discuss] Potential new tool: getdrafts X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org I'm one of those people who prints out every draft that they need to read for each IETF. I usually do this manually, but I got tired of it so this time I wrote a little perl script that scrapes the agendas for each WG you specify, tries to find anything that looks like it might be a draft name and then downloads it. It will also print them out for you if you have enscript. This isn't finished and I worry that I'm not being paranoid enough about scrubbing the input from the agenda page before passing strings to the shell (though I don't know of any problems) but I thought it might be a useful contribution. A copy can be found at: https://svn.resiprocate.org/rep/ietf-drafts/ekr/getdrafts.pl -Ekr _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 06 02:43:40 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOUKd-0006PU-Nn; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 02:43:35 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOUKc-0006OX-Go for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 02:43:34 -0500 Received: from av7-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.181]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOUKb-0008HL-2G for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 02:43:34 -0500 Received: by av7-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 47F5D38094; Tue, 6 Mar 2007 08:42:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.102]) by av7-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 215CE38079; Tue, 6 Mar 2007 08:42:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (81-232-110-214-no16.tbcn.telia.com [81.232.110.214]) by smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B85EF37E4B; Tue, 6 Mar 2007 08:43:29 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HOUKW-0002bz-O9; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 08:43:28 +0100 Message-ID: <45ED1BA8.7080007@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 08:43:36 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Macintosh/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: EKR Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Potential new tool: getdrafts References: <20070306010938.771371CC24@delta.rtfm.com> In-Reply-To: <20070306010938.771371CC24@delta.rtfm.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: ekr@networkresonance.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hi, on 2007-03-06 02:09 EKR said the following: > I'm one of those people who prints out every draft that they need to > read for each IETF. I usually do this manually, but I got tired of it so > this time I wrote a little perl script that scrapes the agendas for each > WG you specify, tries to find anything that looks like it might be a > draft name and then downloads it. It will also print them out for you if > you have enscript. Cool. > This isn't finished and I worry that I'm not being paranoid enough about > scrubbing the input from the agenda page before passing strings to the > shell As a general comment, you might want to consider having the -T option on the hash-bang line; that will turn on taint checking, and you won't be able to do anything dangerous with unscrubbed values. -w could also be a good idea (i.e., use -Tw; hash-bang lines only pass on *one* option group). In this particular case, your filter for bad stuff (/^[a-zA-Z\-0-9]+-\d\d$/) looks good to me, except it doesn't exactly match valid/existing draft names. No recent drafts use upper-case letters, so even if you get a match containing an upper-case letter, you won't be able to retrieve a matching draft. On the other hand, there are 9 drafts from the last 365 days which have a period character as part of the name (even if that's un-acceptable in a draft name, according to 1id-guidelines). So the filter regex /^[a-z0-9\.-]+-\d\d$/ should be a closer match to draft names. > (though I don't know of any problems) but I thought it might > be a useful contribution. Certainly looks useful to me. Henrik > A copy can be found at: > https://svn.resiprocate.org/rep/ietf-drafts/ekr/getdrafts.pl _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 06 11:42:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOcjf-00064x-Eq; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 11:41:59 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOcje-00064o-9j for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 11:41:58 -0500 Received: from c-69-181-78-47.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([69.181.78.47] helo=delta.rtfm.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOcjd-0000kN-04 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 11:41:58 -0500 Received: from networkresonance.com (localhost.rtfm.com [127.0.0.1]) by delta.rtfm.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CADE41CC75; Tue, 6 Mar 2007 08:41:05 -0800 (PST) To: Henrik Levkowetz Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Potential new tool: getdrafts In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 06 Mar 2007 08:43:36 +0100." <45ED1BA8.7080007@levkowetz.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 7.4.2; nmh 1.2; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 20) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 08:41:05 -0800 From: EKR Message-Id: <20070306164105.CADE41CC75@delta.rtfm.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > on 2007-03-06 02:09 EKR said the following: > > I'm one of those people who prints out every draft that they need to > > read for each IETF. I usually do this manually, but I got tired of it so > > this time I wrote a little perl script that scrapes the agendas for each > > WG you specify, tries to find anything that looks like it might be a > > draft name and then downloads it. It will also print them out for you if > > you have enscript. > > Cool. > > > This isn't finished and I worry that I'm not being paranoid enough about > > scrubbing the input from the agenda page before passing strings to the > > shell > > As a general comment, you might want to consider having the -T option > on the hash-bang line; that will turn on taint checking, and you won't > be able to do anything dangerous with unscrubbed values. This is more of a pain in the ass than it sounds since it applies to all command line args and most of them are trusted. But that said, I guess it's worth doing since you might want to put it in a web app or something. > -w could also > be a good idea (i.e., use -Tw; hash-bang lines only pass on *one* option > group). Yeah.... > In this particular case, your filter for bad stuff (/^[a-zA-Z\-0-9]+-\d\d$/) > looks good to me, except it doesn't exactly match valid/existing draft names. > No recent drafts use upper-case letters, so even if you get a match > containing an upper-case letter, you won't be able to retrieve a matching > draft. I didn't know if that was a hard rule or not. On the other hand, there are 9 drafts from the last 365 days which > have a period character as part of the name (even if that's un-acceptable > in a draft name, according to 1id-guidelines). So the filter regex > /^[a-z0-9\.-]+-\d\d$/ should be a closer match to draft names. Sure. I can fix that. I was just thinking about how "." was a pathname component. :) > > (though I don't know of any problems) but I thought it might > > be a useful contribution. > > Certainly looks useful to me. That's good to hear. I've checked in a new version into the SVN repository that incorporates your suggestions. Not sure what next steps are here. I'm happy to just publish a pointer to it, but also happy to contribute it to the IETF tools... whatever makes the most sense... -Ekr _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 06 12:54:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOdsG-0000M5-9b; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 12:54:56 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOdsF-0000LL-0x for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 12:54:55 -0500 Received: from av11-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net ([81.228.8.183]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HOdsD-0004gG-I4 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 12:54:55 -0500 Received: by av11-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id F2C87380F1; Tue, 6 Mar 2007 18:54:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net [81.228.8.92]) by av11-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E6F380E5; Tue, 6 Mar 2007 18:54:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (81-232-110-214-no16.tbcn.telia.com [81.232.110.214]) by smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F2B37E49; Tue, 6 Mar 2007 18:54:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HOdsB-0006qu-8u; Tue, 06 Mar 2007 18:54:51 +0100 Message-ID: <45EDAAF4.8070208@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 18:55:00 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Macintosh/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: EKR Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Potential new tool: getdrafts References: <20070306164105.CADE41CC75@delta.rtfm.com> In-Reply-To: <20070306164105.CADE41CC75@delta.rtfm.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.2.0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: ekr@networkresonance.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0682067519==" Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============0682067519== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig27A329A2F4C1D19177AF152F" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig27A329A2F4C1D19177AF152F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, on 2007-03-06 17:41 EKR said the following: > Henrik Levkowetz wrote: =2E.. >> As a general comment, you might want to consider having the -T option >> on the hash-bang line; that will turn on taint checking, and you won't= >> be able to do anything dangerous with unscrubbed values. >=20 > This is more of a pain in the ass than it sounds since it applies to al= l > command line args and most of them are trusted. But that said, I guess > it's worth doing since you might want to put it in a web app or somethi= ng. Yes, I know! Although perl isn't my first language, I've used it, also w= ith -T, and it is a bother to untaint everything. But you do get some extra security, which you'll want if you use it in a web app, as you say. =2E.. >> In this particular case, your filter for bad stuff (/^[a-zA-Z\-0-9]+-\= d\d$/) >> looks good to me, except it doesn't exactly match valid/existing draft= names. >> No recent drafts use upper-case letters, so even if you get a match >> containing an upper-case letter, you won't be able to retrieve a match= ing >> draft. >=20 > I didn't know if that was a hard rule or not. Yup, it is. 1id-guidelines.txt requires the name to only contain [a-z0-9-], but the secretariat's checks don't seem to trigger on embedded period characters,= so those slip through at present. >=20 > On the other hand, there are 9 drafts from the last 365 days which >> have a period character as part of the name (even if that's un-accepta= ble >> in a draft name, according to 1id-guidelines). So the filter regex >> /^[a-z0-9\.-]+-\d\d$/ should be a closer match to draft names. >=20 > Sure. I can fix that. I was just thinking about how "." was a=20 > pathname component. :) And so it is, and it shouldn't be permitted, but one has to work the existing realities ,;-) >=20 >> > (though I don't know of any problems) but I thought it might >> > be a useful contribution. >>=20 >> Certainly looks useful to me. >=20 > That's good to hear.=20 >=20 > I've checked in a new version into the SVN repository that incorporates= > your suggestions. >=20 > Not sure what next steps are here. I'm happy to just publish a pointer > to it, but also happy to contribute it to the IETF tools... whatever > makes the most sense... I'll set up a page using the regular tool page format, and let you see if it suits you. It would be good if you could put a license on it; whatever you feel is appropriate. Henrik --------------enig27A329A2F4C1D19177AF152F Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFF7ar0eVhrtTJkXCMRApvyAKDltmtnoQppwBz7wT4OKDq9+aO1oQCfaSOp uob3Oc9tJ8BiGaczaB6Yu4Y= =IrC/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig27A329A2F4C1D19177AF152F-- --===============0682067519== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --===============0682067519==-- From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Sat Mar 10 11:33:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HQ4VQ-00019M-Bi; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:33:16 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPOhn-0001yY-77 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2007 14:55:15 -0500 Received: from ihemail1.lucent.com ([135.245.0.33]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HPOhk-0004vk-OE for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2007 14:55:15 -0500 Received: from ihmail.ih.lucent.com (h135-1-218-70.lucent.com [135.1.218.70]) by ihemail1.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id l28Jt7ut028149 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 13:55:07 -0600 (CST) Received: from [135.185.244.90] (il0015vkg1.ih.lucent.com [135.185.244.90]) by ihmail.ih.lucent.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l28Jt7M21881 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2007 13:55:07 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <45F06A1B.8050208@alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:55:07 -0600 From: "Vijay K. Gurbani" Organization: Bell Labs Security Technology Research Group User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.33 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:33:14 -0500 Subject: [Tools-discuss] Proposed modification to xml2rfc.tcl X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hi: For IETF 68, a couple of my drafts were rejected since I was using xml2rfc v1.31. This version did not have the "IETF Trust" boilerplate. Upon notification of the rejection, I went ahed and downloaded the next release, xml2rfc v1.32. I have not yet seen my resubmitted drafts appear in the IETF archives. I hope they do. However, that aside, it will be good if xml2rfc.tcl tool automatically notified the user that a new version is available. That way, people that do not subscribe to the tools-discuss mailing list know when to upgrade. Thanks, - vijay -- Vijay K. Gurbani, Bell Laboratories, Alcatel-Lucent 2701 Lucent Lane, Rm. 9F-546, Lisle, Illinois 60532 (USA) Email: vkg@{alcatel-lucent.com,bell-labs.com,acm.org} WWW: http://www.alcatel-lucent.com/bell-labs _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Sat Mar 10 14:50:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HQ7aT-0007Ft-1i; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 14:50:41 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HQ7aR-00074e-B7 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 14:50:39 -0500 Received: from av12-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net ([81.228.8.185]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HQ7aO-0005o2-TP for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 14:50:39 -0500 Received: by av12-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id B503237FEB; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 20:50:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net [81.228.8.92]) by av12-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8905537F0E; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 20:50:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (81-232-110-214-no16.tbcn.telia.com [81.232.110.214]) by smtp4-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7507237E43; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 20:50:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HQ7aC-0005hN-P3; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 20:50:24 +0100 Message-ID: <45F30BF7.300@levkowetz.com> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 20:50:15 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: EKR Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Potential new tool: getdrafts References: <20070306164105.CADE41CC75@delta.rtfm.com> <45EDAAF4.8070208@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <45EDAAF4.8070208@levkowetz.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: ekr@networkresonance.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hi ekr, on 2007-03-06 18:55 Henrik Levkowetz said the following: ... >> Not sure what next steps are here. I'm happy to just publish a pointer >> to it, but also happy to contribute it to the IETF tools... whatever >> makes the most sense... > > I'll set up a page using the regular tool page format, and let you see > if it suits you. It would be good if you could put a license on it; > whatever you feel is appropriate. Ok, I've set up a page, here: http://www1.tools.ietf.org/tools/getdrafts/ With a link from the new tool overview page I've started to generate from the individual tool pages and tool descriptions: http://www1.tools.ietf.org/tools/ Does this work for you? Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Sun Mar 11 06:30:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HQLJF-0007MJ-3l; Sun, 11 Mar 2007 06:29:49 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HQLJE-0007ME-IU for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Sun, 11 Mar 2007 06:29:48 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net ([193.234.218.130]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HQLJ9-00006h-32 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Sun, 11 Mar 2007 06:29:44 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7EA71986B4; Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:29:34 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7405F198645; Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:29:34 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <45F3DA0E.2030903@piuha.net> Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:29:34 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Vijay K. Gurbani" Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Proposed modification to xml2rfc.tcl References: <45F06A1B.8050208@alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <45F06A1B.8050208@alcatel-lucent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org I think this would be very useful. Or even downloaded itself automatically, or at least the often changing boilerplate parts... Jari Vijay K. Gurbani kirjoitti: > Hi: For IETF 68, a couple of my drafts were rejected since I was using > xml2rfc v1.31. This version did not have the "IETF Trust" boilerplate. > Upon notification of the rejection, I went ahed and downloaded the next > release, xml2rfc v1.32. > > I have not yet seen my resubmitted drafts appear in the IETF archives. > I hope they do. > > However, that aside, it will be good if xml2rfc.tcl tool automatically > notified the user that a new version is available. That way, > people that do not subscribe to the tools-discuss mailing list know > when to upgrade. > > Thanks, > > - vijay _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Sun Mar 18 13:30:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HSzCs-0001v4-Hx; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 13:30:10 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HSzCr-0001uz-Tu for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 13:30:09 -0400 Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HSzCq-000809-IS for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 13:30:09 -0400 Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HSzCk-0007c1-Op for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:30:02 +0100 Received: from du-001-077.access.de.clara.net ([212.82.227.77]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:30:02 +0100 Received: from nobody by du-001-077.access.de.clara.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:30:02 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:28:57 +0100 Organization: Lines: 20 Message-ID: <45FD76D9.1167@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <45F1620D.40609@alvestrand.no> <87bqj2jxzu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F176FC.4060204@alvestrand.no> <45F4221B.5475@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45F57D58.50804@zurich.ibm.com> <20070313021426.A2694766132@berkshire.machshav.com> <24C1544937513DB00EBF2972@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <45F83970.1F5D@xyzzy.claranet.de> <7.0.1.0.0.20070314171032.03aa7b28@stevecrocker.com> <45F88550.351F@xyzzy.claranet.de> <87abye3kae.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F91FBF.50408@zurich.ibm.com> <877itgp1xp.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45FBE55A.FE0@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FD6521.9000604@levkowetz.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: du-001-077.access.de.clara.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: ipr-wg@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] IONs on the tool server (was: ISSUE: adopt RFC 4693 section 2.2 paragraph 5) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > In cases where the xml file is available, text can be > produced with xml2rfc. [...] > For a very early cut of assembling something like this, try > http://www1.tools.ietf.org/html/ion-procdocs That's nice... :-) I've immediately replaced my old link http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-procdoc-roadmap by your version. > Should work for the above link now, and for all tool > servers and ions shortly. Great, thanks. Copied to the tools list for info. Frank _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Sun Mar 18 17:12:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HT2fZ-0008Og-2k; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:12:01 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HT2fY-0008Ob-2a for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:12:00 -0400 Received: from mtagate8.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.141]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HT2fW-000214-Kl for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:12:00 -0400 Received: from d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.38.185]) by mtagate8.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l2ILBvnN058120 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 21:11:57 GMT Received: from d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.37.228]) by d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l2ILBvI11814660 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 21:11:57 GMT Received: from d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l2ILBv5g032542 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 21:11:57 GMT Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d06av02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l2ILBvjE032537; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 21:11:57 GMT Received: from [9.4.210.54] ([9.4.210.54]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA330094; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 22:11:56 +0100 Message-ID: <45FDAB1D.4080108@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 22:11:57 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Ellermann Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IONs on the tool server References: <45F1620D.40609@alvestrand.no> <87bqj2jxzu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F176FC.4060204@alvestrand.no> <45F4221B.5475@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45F57D58.50804@zurich.ibm.com> <20070313021426.A2694766132@berkshire.machshav.com> <24C1544937513DB00EBF2972@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <45F83970.1F5D@xyzzy.claranet.de> <7.0.1.0.0.20070314171032.03aa7b28@stevecrocker.com> <45F88550.351F@xyzzy.claranet.de> <87abye3kae.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F91FBF.50408@zurich.ibm.com> <877itgp1xp.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45FBE55A.FE0@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FD6521.9000604@levkowetz.com> <45FD76D9.1167@xyzzy.claranet.de> In-Reply-To: <45FD76D9.1167@xyzzy.claranet.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org But... this seems all wrong. There is *no* text version of that ION. It only exists in HTML. ION authors get to choose txt or html. It happens that an ION developed with XML2RFC is stored in SVN in xml and html formats, but the valid version for public use is the one in http://www.ietf.org/IESG/content/ions/ I don't see the point in synthesising a txt version, and still less of synthesising an html version for a text ION, which will normally be a very simple document. Consider me puzzled. Incidentally, the IONization folklore is being gathered at http://www1.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IonIzation Brian On 2007-03-18 18:28, Frank Ellermann wrote: > Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > >> In cases where the xml file is available, text can be >> produced with xml2rfc. > [...] >> For a very early cut of assembling something like this, try > >> http://www1.tools.ietf.org/html/ion-procdocs > > That's nice... :-) I've immediately replaced my old link > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-procdoc-roadmap > by your version. > >> Should work for the above link now, and for all tool >> servers and ions shortly. > > Great, thanks. Copied to the tools list for info. > > Frank > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Sun Mar 18 19:36:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HT4v8-0001Gc-QY; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:36:14 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HT4v7-0001CG-UW for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:36:13 -0400 Received: from av9-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.185]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HT4v6-00083N-CY for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:36:13 -0400 Received: by av9-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 04B463D6B8; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 00:36:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp3-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp3-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.101]) by av9-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A99F3C799; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 00:36:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (81-232-110-214-no16.tbcn.telia.com [81.232.110.214]) by smtp3-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5EEB37E43; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 00:36:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HT4uy-00038K-UZ; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 00:36:05 +0100 Message-ID: <45FDCCE3.7070907@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 00:36:03 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IONs on the tool server References: <45F1620D.40609@alvestrand.no> <87bqj2jxzu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F176FC.4060204@alvestrand.no> <45F4221B.5475@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45F57D58.50804@zurich.ibm.com> <20070313021426.A2694766132@berkshire.machshav.com> <24C1544937513DB00EBF2972@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <45F83970.1F5D@xyzzy.claranet.de> <7.0.1.0.0.20070314171032.03aa7b28@stevecrocker.com> <45F88550.351F@xyzzy.claranet.de> <87abye3kae.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F91FBF.50408@zurich.ibm.com> <877itgp1xp.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45FBE55A.FE0@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FD6521.9000604@levkowetz.com> <45FD76D9.1167@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FDAB1D.4080108@zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <45FDAB1D.4080108@zurich.ibm.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: brc@zurich.ibm.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1a1bf7677bfe77d8af1ebe0e91045c5b Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hi Brian, The following comments are my personal, subjective views, and I have no particular need to enforce them on other people -- just take them as a personal comment on this. on 2007-03-18 22:11 Brian E Carpenter said the following: > But... this seems all wrong. > > There is *no* text version of that ION. It only exists in HTML. > ION authors get to choose txt or html. It happens that an ION > developed with XML2RFC is stored in SVN in xml and html formats, > but the valid version for public use is the one > in http://www.ietf.org/IESG/content/ions/ Umm. Ok. But I'd think that it's the text that matters, not the format? Anyway, personally I find the style sheet used for the html format of RFC document ugly and distracting, and I'd rather read something formatted according to a template I feel at home with. I don't know how much weight that should carry, but I don't think it should be ignored. I have considered producing one or more alternative .css style sheets for xml2rfc output, or alternative styling for the xslt processor, but haven't had time... The HTML version *does* have the advantage of embedded links,but those links aren't always the most useful links, which was the thing that lead to Frank's reaction and my 'fix'...: > I don't see the point in synthesising a txt version, and still > less of synthesising an html version for a text ION, which will > normally be a very simple document. Take ion-procdocs as an example. The public version mentions a large number of userful RFCs, and each one is linked to the reference section, where it is linked to a plain-text version of the RFC with no further links. As mentioned by Frank, the html format you get using the htmlification lets each mention of an RFC lead directly to a hyperlinked version of that RFC, without going via the reference section, and without ending up in a text/plain document with no outgoing hyper-links. The same result could be achieved by fixing the html result from xml2rfc to point directly to RFCs at the point of reference, rather than indirectly; and by pointing to RFCs with hyperlinks, rather than to text/plain versions with no further links. But doing *that* fix is beyond what I can do in a couple of hours. If the xml2rfc maintainers are attentive and responsive, they will do something about this which will remove any benefit of the re-htmlized versions of IONs, but that isn't available for use today... > Consider me puzzled. Incidentally, the IONization folklore is > being gathered at > http://www1.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IonIzation Thanks for the link. I wasn't aware of this page. I hope that I've provided some explanation of my view above, reducing the puzzlement; without of course meaning that we necessarily need to have the same view on this. Regards, Henrik > Brian > > On 2007-03-18 18:28, Frank Ellermann wrote: >> Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> >>> In cases where the xml file is available, text can be >>> produced with xml2rfc. >> [...] >>> For a very early cut of assembling something like this, try >> >>> http://www1.tools.ietf.org/html/ion-procdocs >> >> That's nice... :-) I've immediately replaced my old link >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-procdoc-roadmap >> by your version. >> >>> Should work for the above link now, and for all tool >>> servers and ions shortly. >> >> Great, thanks. Copied to the tools list for info. >> >> Frank >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Sun Mar 18 19:46:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HT554-0005gs-TK; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:46:30 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HT554-0005gn-6b for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:46:30 -0400 Received: from drakken.dbc.mtview.ca.us ([168.143.123.173]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HT551-0000ZA-Rj for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:46:30 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by drakken.dbc.mtview.ca.us (8.12.11/8.12.8) with ESMTP id l2INkB4l023829; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 15:46:11 -0800 In-Reply-To: <45FDCCE3.7070907@levkowetz.com> References: <45F1620D.40609@alvestrand.no> <87bqj2jxzu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F176FC.4060204@alvestrand.no> <45F4221B.5475@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45F57D58.50804@zurich.ibm.com> <20070313021426.A2694766132@berkshire.machshav.com> <24C1544937513DB00EBF2972@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <45F83970.1F5D@xyzzy.claranet.de> <7.0.1.0.0.20070314171032.03aa7b28@stevecrocker.com> <45F88550.351F@xyzzy.claranet.de> <87abye3kae.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F91FBF.50408@zurich.ibm.com> <877itgp1xp.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45FBE55A.FE0@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FD6521.9000604@levkowetz.com> <45FD76D9.1167@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FDAB1D.4080108@zurich.ibm.com> <45FDCCE3.7070907@levkowetz.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <49FF14DD-F2D2-4724-95E1-EBA6C045D1AB@dbc.mtview.ca.us> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marshall Rose Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IONs on the tool server Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:46:02 -0700 To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d17f825e43c9aed4fd65b7edddddec89 Cc: Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org > If the xml2rfc > maintainers are attentive and responsive, they will do something > about this which will remove any benefit of the re-htmlized versions > of IONs, but that isn't available for use today... if people want changes to xml2rfc, then they will send a concise, thoughtful note to the xml2rfc list explaining what problem needs to be solved along with possible suggestions... /mtr _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 19 02:02:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTAwT-00030L-Kf; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 02:02:01 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTAwT-00030F-2U for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 02:02:01 -0400 Received: from mtagate1.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.134]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTAwN-0001cb-4L for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 02:02:01 -0400 Received: from d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.38.185]) by mtagate1.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l2J61soV128662 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:01:54 GMT Received: from d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.37.216]) by d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l2J61sAH1912910 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:01:54 GMT Received: from d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l2J61rLo019720 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:01:53 GMT Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l2J61rgR019717; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:01:53 GMT Received: from [9.145.135.56] (sig-9-145-135-56.de.ibm.com [9.145.135.56]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA244902; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 07:01:52 +0100 Message-ID: <45FE2750.7080208@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 07:01:52 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marshall Rose Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IONs on the tool server References: <45F1620D.40609@alvestrand.no> <87bqj2jxzu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F176FC.4060204@alvestrand.no> <45F4221B.5475@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45F57D58.50804@zurich.ibm.com> <20070313021426.A2694766132@berkshire.machshav.com> <24C1544937513DB00EBF2972@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <45F83970.1F5D@xyzzy.claranet.de> <7.0.1.0.0.20070314171032.03aa7b28@stevecrocker.com> <45F88550.351F@xyzzy.claranet.de> <87abye3kae.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F91FBF.50408@zurich.ibm.com> <877itgp1xp.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45FBE55A.FE0@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FD6521.9000604@levkowetz.com> <45FD76D9.1167@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FDAB1D.4080108@zurich.ibm.com> <45FDCCE3.7070907@levkowetz.com> <49FF14DD-F2D2-4724-95E1-EBA6C045D1AB@dbc.mtview.ca.us> In-Reply-To: <49FF14DD-F2D2-4724-95E1-EBA6C045D1AB@dbc.mtview.ca.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Henrik, I get it. I thought a bit more after sending my note but it was bedtime before I understood Frank's "dead end" comment. However I'd caution against going too far too fast on IONs. They are an experiment, and the ability to use xml2rfc for them was an afterthought, when I realised that several xml2rfc drafts were likely to become IONs instead of RFCs. So, if we decide to make IONs a permanent feature (a decision for the new IESG about the end of 2007) we could have a real discussion about the best way to integrate the various tools. Meanwhile obviously I have no problem with experimentation. Marshall, I think the cosmetics of the HTML rendering could be debated for ever. Personally I like the xml2rfc rendering more than the tools Courier rendering, but I do like the concept that all RFCs cited by an RFC are also HTMLized in the tools rendering. Brian On 2007-03-19 00:46, Marshall Rose wrote: >> If the xml2rfc >> maintainers are attentive and responsive, they will do something >> about this which will remove any benefit of the re-htmlized versions >> of IONs, but that isn't available for use today... > > if people want changes to xml2rfc, then they will send a concise, > thoughtful note to the xml2rfc list explaining what problem needs to be > solved along with possible suggestions... > > /mtr > > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 19 03:15:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTC5Y-0002jU-U6; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 03:15:28 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTC5Y-0002jM-1j for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 03:15:28 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTC5U-0006qa-LR for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 03:15:28 -0400 Received: from sj-dkim-2.cisco.com ([171.71.179.186]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Mar 2007 00:15:24 -0700 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l2J7FOu8024856; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 00:15:24 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l2J7FLMF001074; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 07:15:23 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.174]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 19 Mar 2007 00:15:20 -0700 Received: from [10.0.0.161] ([10.21.155.81]) by xfe-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 19 Mar 2007 00:15:20 -0700 In-Reply-To: <45FE2750.7080208@zurich.ibm.com> References: <45F1620D.40609@alvestrand.no> <87bqj2jxzu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F176FC.4060204@alvestrand.no> <45F4221B.5475@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45F57D58.50804@zurich.ibm.com> <20070313021426.A2694766132@berkshire.machshav.com> <24C1544937513DB00EBF2972@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <45F83970.1F5D@xyzzy.claranet.de> <7.0.1.0.0.20070314171032.03aa7b28@stevecrocker.com> <45F88550.351F@xyzzy.claranet.de> <87abye3kae.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F91FBF.50408@zurich.ibm.com> <877itgp1xp.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45FBE55A.FE0@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FD6521.9000604@levkowetz.com> <45FD76D9.1167@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FDAB1D.4080108@zurich.ibm.com> <45FDCCE3.7070907@levkowetz.com> <49FF14DD-F2D2-4724-95E1-EBA6C045D1AB@dbc.mtview.ca.us> <45FE2750.7080208@zurich.ibm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <5EA4FE32-5093-477D-B623-7048BA2F9C89@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Fred Baker Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IONs on the tool server Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 08:15:13 +0100 To: Brian E Carpenter X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Mar 2007 07:15:20.0273 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A641C10:01C769F6] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2284; t=1174288524; x=1175152524; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=fred@cisco.com; z=From:=20Fred=20Baker=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tools-discuss]=20IONs=20on=20the=20tool=20server |Sender:=20; bh=/9TWU6SoMv+zdQxTXtXipo1G/r0HQkcCPTd+EFcORBk=; b=ONFj3Vx3WYNhVdNOx9KE2tY9Fbi+Ul99NtQhIazKovkMqoF/949mPsFu65h0F2VI02AsLPkJ l15eLrlBOYmZvzTf3aAsGQuIVMvwXKX75JKHpqkudKZL/jmZ9zkIvCyd; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-2; header.From=fred@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/sjdkim2002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , tools-discuss@ietf.org, Marshall Rose X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org As you know, I don't see the fascination with IONs. But if we are going to mess with them, I really don't see a reason to mess with the format over cosmetic issues. If you have structural comments, that is something that can be specified and gotten correct, but a popularity context on what looks good to one eye on the screen vs someone else's eye is a lose-lose argument that has no endpoint. And I happen to like xml2rfc's html output. On Mar 19, 2007, at 7:01 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Henrik, > > I get it. I thought a bit more after sending my note but it was > bedtime > before I understood Frank's "dead end" comment. > > However I'd caution against going too far too fast on IONs. They > are an > experiment, and the ability to use xml2rfc for them was an > afterthought, > when I realised that several xml2rfc drafts were likely to become IONs > instead of RFCs. > > So, if we decide to make IONs a permanent feature (a decision for the > new IESG about the end of 2007) we could have a real discussion about > the best way to integrate the various tools. Meanwhile obviously > I have no problem with experimentation. > > Marshall, > > I think the cosmetics of the HTML rendering could be debated for > ever. Personally I like the xml2rfc rendering more than the tools > Courier rendering, but I do like the concept that all RFCs cited by > an RFC are also HTMLized in the tools rendering. > > Brian > > > On 2007-03-19 00:46, Marshall Rose wrote: >>> If the xml2rfc >>> maintainers are attentive and responsive, they will do something >>> about this which will remove any benefit of the re-htmlized versions >>> of IONs, but that isn't available for use today... >> if people want changes to xml2rfc, then they will send a concise, >> thoughtful note to the xml2rfc list explaining what problem needs >> to be solved along with possible suggestions... >> /mtr >> _______________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 19 04:04:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTCqP-0006le-Qq; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 04:03:53 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTCqO-0006lU-NR for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 04:03:52 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net ([193.234.218.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTCqN-0005ZQ-5D for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 04:03:52 -0400 Received: from p130.piuha.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E376C198690; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:03:47 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6290419867C; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:03:47 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <45FE43E2.3000209@piuha.net> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:03:46 +0100 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070306) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IONs on the tool server References: <45F1620D.40609@alvestrand.no> <87bqj2jxzu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F176FC.4060204@alvestrand.no> <45F4221B.5475@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45F57D58.50804@zurich.ibm.com> <20070313021426.A2694766132@berkshire.machshav.com> <24C1544937513DB00EBF2972@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <45F83970.1F5D@xyzzy.claranet.de> <7.0.1.0.0.20070314171032.03aa7b28@stevecrocker.com> <45F88550.351F@xyzzy.claranet.de> <87abye3kae.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F91FBF.50408@zurich.ibm.com> <877itgp1xp.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45FBE55A.FE0@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FD6521.9000604@levkowetz.com> <45FD76D9.1167@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FDAB1D.4080108@zurich.ibm.com> <45FDCCE3.7070907@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <45FDCCE3.7070907@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org FWIW, if you Henrik can put the IONs on the tools site, that would be great -- I generally expect the tools service to provide a better service in some way than our official things. I don't mind if you can convert existing ION formats to tools site formats, as long as you can do it for all IONs and you are not losing information. IONs come official either in text or html, and some, but not all, of these have xml source. By the way, my xml2rfc template for IONs is here: http://www.arkko.com/publications/iesg/ion-xml-template.html If it would be great if the tools representation of IONs worked well with this. Jari P.S. Personally, I kind of like the xml2rfc html output. _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 19 06:24:19 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTF2J-0006NU-Bp; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:24:19 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTF2H-0006MC-IR for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:24:17 -0400 Received: from av10-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net ([81.228.8.182]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTF2E-0007gc-As for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:24:17 -0400 Received: by av10-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 00B9E37E42; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:24:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp4-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (smtp4-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net [81.228.8.93]) by av10-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C85C37E42; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:24:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (81-232-110-214-no16.tbcn.telia.com [81.232.110.214]) by smtp4-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D51037E4E; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:24:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HTF2A-0007YA-Ex; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:24:10 +0100 Message-ID: <45FE64C9.8070704@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:24:09 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IONs on the tool server References: <45F1620D.40609@alvestrand.no> <87bqj2jxzu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F176FC.4060204@alvestrand.no> <45F4221B.5475@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45F57D58.50804@zurich.ibm.com> <20070313021426.A2694766132@berkshire.machshav.com> <24C1544937513DB00EBF2972@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <45F83970.1F5D@xyzzy.claranet.de> <7.0.1.0.0.20070314171032.03aa7b28@stevecrocker.com> <45F88550.351F@xyzzy.claranet.de> <87abye3kae.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F91FBF.50408@zurich.ibm.com> <877itgp1xp.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45FBE55A.FE0@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FD6521.9000604@levkowetz.com> <45FD76D9.1167@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FDAB1D.4080108@zurich.ibm.com> <45FDCCE3.7070907@levkowetz.com> <49FF14DD-F2D2-4724-95E1-EBA6C045D1AB@dbc.mtview.ca.us> <45FE2750.7080208@zurich.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <45FE2750.7080208@zurich.ibm.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: brc@zurich.ibm.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hi Brian, on 2007-03-19 07:01 Brian E Carpenter said the following: > Henrik, > > I get it. I thought a bit more after sending my note but it was bedtime > before I understood Frank's "dead end" comment. Ah. Ok. > However I'd caution against going too far too fast on IONs. They are an > experiment, and the ability to use xml2rfc for them was an afterthought, > when I realised that several xml2rfc drafts were likely to become IONs > instead of RFCs. > > So, if we decide to make IONs a permanent feature (a decision for the > new IESG about the end of 2007) we could have a real discussion about > the best way to integrate the various tools. Meanwhile obviously > I have no problem with experimentation. Sure, and Ok. Henrik > Marshall, > > I think the cosmetics of the HTML rendering could be debated for > ever. Personally I like the xml2rfc rendering more than the tools > Courier rendering, but I do like the concept that all RFCs cited by > an RFC are also HTMLized in the tools rendering. > > Brian > > > On 2007-03-19 00:46, Marshall Rose wrote: >>> If the xml2rfc >>> maintainers are attentive and responsive, they will do something >>> about this which will remove any benefit of the re-htmlized versions >>> of IONs, but that isn't available for use today... >> >> if people want changes to xml2rfc, then they will send a concise, >> thoughtful note to the xml2rfc list explaining what problem needs to be >> solved along with possible suggestions... >> >> /mtr >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tools-discuss mailing list >> Tools-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss > _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 19 06:29:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTF7L-0001vF-6E; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:29:31 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTF7K-0001um-OL for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:29:30 -0400 Received: from av12-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net ([81.228.8.185]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTF7J-0000C5-AK for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:29:30 -0400 Received: by av12-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id CB07F37E9B; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:29:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp4-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (smtp4-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net [81.228.8.93]) by av12-1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BDDE37E48; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:29:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (81-232-110-214-no16.tbcn.telia.com [81.232.110.214]) by smtp4-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B78F37E49; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:29:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HTF7H-0003Lo-Ug; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:29:28 +0100 Message-ID: <45FE6606.9080608@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 11:29:26 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jari Arkko Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IONs on the tool server References: <45F1620D.40609@alvestrand.no> <87bqj2jxzu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F176FC.4060204@alvestrand.no> <45F4221B.5475@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45F57D58.50804@zurich.ibm.com> <20070313021426.A2694766132@berkshire.machshav.com> <24C1544937513DB00EBF2972@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <45F83970.1F5D@xyzzy.claranet.de> <7.0.1.0.0.20070314171032.03aa7b28@stevecrocker.com> <45F88550.351F@xyzzy.claranet.de> <87abye3kae.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F91FBF.50408@zurich.ibm.com> <877itgp1xp.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45FBE55A.FE0@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FD6521.9000604@levkowetz.com> <45FD76D9.1167@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FDAB1D.4080108@zurich.ibm.com> <45FDCCE3.7070907@levkowetz.com> <45FE43E2.3000209@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: <45FE43E2.3000209@piuha.net> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.2.0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net, tools-discuss@ietf.org, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0833822904==" Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============0833822904== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig80D09CD6A44380834AB39890" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig80D09CD6A44380834AB39890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jari, on 2007-03-19 09:03 Jari Arkko said the following: > FWIW, if you Henrik can put the IONs on the tools site, > that would be great -- I generally expect the tools service > to provide a better service in some way than our official > things. I don't mind if you can convert existing ION formats > to tools site formats, as long as you can do it for all IONs Right, > and you are not losing information. Right. > IONs come official > either in text or html, and some, but not all, of these > have xml source. By the way, my xml2rfc template for > IONs is here: >=20 > http://www.arkko.com/publications/iesg/ion-xml-template.html Ah. With another person already approaching me about putting some templates up on the tools server, I see a "Templates" area coming up... > If it would be great if the tools representation of IONs > worked well with this. Right. I'll give it some attention. Henrik --------------enig80D09CD6A44380834AB39890 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFF/mYHeVhrtTJkXCMRAl59AJ4n5TO+jIk3GMlIcaxLwWIIEqUx4ACg5+Im 1ZQxqFprS4KA9jiu8B5o658= =4AQE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig80D09CD6A44380834AB39890-- --===============0833822904== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --===============0833822904==-- From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 19 09:27:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTHtr-0001b9-OR; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:27:47 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTHtq-0001az-Fw for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:27:46 -0400 Received: from mtagate2.de.ibm.com ([195.212.29.151]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTHtV-0006YR-QO for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:27:46 -0400 Received: from d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.167.49]) by mtagate2.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l2JDRPe8072272 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 13:27:25 GMT Received: from d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com [9.149.165.228]) by d12nrmr1607.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v8.3) with ESMTP id l2JDROsV1355972 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:27:24 +0100 Received: from d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id l2JDROwD005413 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:27:24 +0100 Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d12av02.megacenter.de.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l2JDROOa005395; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:27:24 +0100 Received: from [9.4.210.54] ([9.4.210.54]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA169844; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:27:23 +0100 Message-ID: <45FE8FBC.1050203@zurich.ibm.com> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:27:24 +0100 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: IBM User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IONs on the tool server References: <45F1620D.40609@alvestrand.no> <87bqj2jxzu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F176FC.4060204@alvestrand.no> <45F4221B.5475@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45F57D58.50804@zurich.ibm.com> <20070313021426.A2694766132@berkshire.machshav.com> <24C1544937513DB00EBF2972@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <45F83970.1F5D@xyzzy.claranet.de> <7.0.1.0.0.20070314171032.03aa7b28@stevecrocker.com> <45F88550.351F@xyzzy.claranet.de> <87abye3kae.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F91FBF.50408@zurich.ibm.com> <877itgp1xp.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45FBE55A.FE0@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FD6521.9000604@levkowetz.com> <45FD76D9.1167@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FDAB1D.4080108@zurich.ibm.com> <45FDCCE3.7070907@levkowetz.com> <45FE43E2.3000209@piuha.net> <45FE6606.9080608@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <45FE6606.9080608@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Cc: Jari Arkko , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On 2007-03-19 11:29, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > Hi Jari, > > on 2007-03-19 09:03 Jari Arkko said the following: >> FWIW, if you Henrik can put the IONs on the tools site, >> that would be great -- I generally expect the tools service >> to provide a better service in some way than our official >> things. I don't mind if you can convert existing ION formats >> to tools site formats, as long as you can do it for all IONs > > Right, > >> and you are not losing information. > > Right. > >> IONs come official >> either in text or html, and some, but not all, of these >> have xml source. By the way, my xml2rfc template for >> IONs is here: >> >> http://www.arkko.com/publications/iesg/ion-xml-template.html And the xml source is in SVN https://www1.tools.ietf.org/svn/group/iesg/ions/drafts/ion-ion-xml-template.xml Brian > > Ah. With another person already approaching me about putting > some templates up on the tools server, I see a "Templates" area > coming up... > >> If it would be great if the tools representation of IONs >> worked well with this. > > Right. I'll give it some attention. > > > Henrik > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Tools-discuss mailing list > Tools-discuss@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 19 13:33:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTLj1-0005Sc-0t; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 13:32:51 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTLj0-0005Rr-7v for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 13:32:50 -0400 Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTLig-0006oT-Vo for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 13:32:50 -0400 Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 19 Mar 2007 17:32:26 -0000 Received: from p508FBF46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (EHLO [192.168.178.22]) [80.143.191.70] by mail.gmx.net (mp052) with SMTP; 19 Mar 2007 18:32:26 +0100 X-Authenticated: #1915285 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19lzSt0kTpled31CBUX9ywa4ZwflfqBvSXSU8xtUN OkSEW9/LhFoQiI Message-ID: <45FEC926.9080706@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:32:22 +0100 From: Julian Reschke User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de; rv:1.8.0.4) Gecko/20060516 Thunderbird/1.5.0.4 Mnenhy/0.7.4.666 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IONs on the tool server References: <45F1620D.40609@alvestrand.no> <87bqj2jxzu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F176FC.4060204@alvestrand.no> <45F4221B.5475@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45F57D58.50804@zurich.ibm.com> <20070313021426.A2694766132@berkshire.machshav.com> <24C1544937513DB00EBF2972@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <45F83970.1F5D@xyzzy.claranet.de> <7.0.1.0.0.20070314171032.03aa7b28@stevecrocker.com> <45F88550.351F@xyzzy.claranet.de> <87abye3kae.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F91FBF.50408@zurich.ibm.com> <877itgp1xp.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45FBE55A.FE0@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FD6521.9000604@levkowetz.com> <45FD76D9.1167@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FDAB1D.4080108@zurich.ibm.com> <45FDCCE3.7070907@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <45FDCCE3.7070907@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Cc: Brian E Carpenter , tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Henrik Levkowetz schrieb: > ... > Take ion-procdocs as an example. The public version mentions a large > number of userful RFCs, and each one is linked to the reference > section, where it is linked to a plain-text version of the RFC with > no further links. As mentioned by Frank, the html format you get > using the htmlification lets each mention of an RFC lead directly to > a hyperlinked version of that RFC, without going via the reference > section, and without ending up in a text/plain document with no > outgoing hyper-links. > ... See my proposed extension, as implemented in rfc2629.xslt (). It still makes the [FOO] a link to the references section, but allows to add the section number (which then becomes a *direct* link into the HTML version). Best regards, Julian _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 19 19:14:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTR2z-0002UW-6V; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:13:49 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTR2x-0002UL-Bh for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:13:47 -0400 Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTR2e-0002ZQ-Py for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:13:46 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HTR2Q-0000Qi-SA for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:13:14 +0100 Received: from d252210.dialin.hansenet.de ([80.171.252.210]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:13:14 +0100 Received: from nobody by d252210.dialin.hansenet.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:13:14 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:12:06 +0100 Organization: Lines: 6 Message-ID: <45FF18C6.2BFA@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <45F1620D.40609@alvestrand.no> <87bqj2jxzu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F176FC.4060204@alvestrand.no> <45F4221B.5475@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45F57D58.50804@zurich.ibm.com> <20070313021426.A2694766132@berkshire.machshav.com> <24C1544937513DB00EBF2972@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <45F83970.1F5D@xyzzy.claranet.de> <7.0.1.0.0.20070314171032.03aa7b28@stevecrocker.com> <45F88550.351F@xyzzy.claranet.de> <87abye3kae.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F91FBF.50408@zurich.ibm.com> <877itgp1xp.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45FBE55A.FE0@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FD6521.9000604@levkowetz.com> <45FD76D9.1167@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FDAB1D.4080108@zurich.ibm.com> <45FDCCE3.7070907@levkowetz.com> <45FE43E2.3000209@piuha.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: d252210.dialin.hansenet.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: IONs on the tool server X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Jari Arkko wrote: > P.S. Personally, I kind of like the xml2rfc html output. Strong ACK. _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Mon Mar 19 19:23:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTRBw-0001AK-SK; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:23:04 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTRBv-0001AF-Ew for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:23:03 -0400 Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTRBt-0004Ky-2m for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:23:03 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HTRBi-0001hO-0F for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:22:50 +0100 Received: from d252210.dialin.hansenet.de ([80.171.252.210]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:22:49 +0100 Received: from nobody by d252210.dialin.hansenet.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:22:49 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 00:22:10 +0100 Organization: Lines: 14 Message-ID: <45FF1B22.969@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <45F1620D.40609@alvestrand.no> <87bqj2jxzu.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F176FC.4060204@alvestrand.no> <45F4221B.5475@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45F57D58.50804@zurich.ibm.com> <20070313021426.A2694766132@berkshire.machshav.com> <24C1544937513DB00EBF2972@B50854F0A9192E8EC6CDA126> <45F83970.1F5D@xyzzy.claranet.de> <7.0.1.0.0.20070314171032.03aa7b28@stevecrocker.com> <45F88550.351F@xyzzy.claranet.de> <87abye3kae.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45F91FBF.50408@zurich.ibm.com> <877itgp1xp.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org> <45FBE55A.FE0@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FD6521.9000604@levkowetz.com> <45FD76D9.1167@xyzzy.claranet.de> <45FDAB1D.4080108@zurich.ibm.com> <45FDCCE3.7070907@levkowetz.com> <45FE43E2.3000209@piuha.net> <45FF18C6.2BFA@xyzzy.claranet.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: d252210.dialin.hansenet.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: IONs on the tool server X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org >> P.S. Personally, I kind of like the xml2rfc html output. > Strong ACK. Argh, I read "rfcmarkup" where Jari clearly wrote "xml2rfc". Withdrawing the "strong ACK", I like monospaced Courier and the original layout with page numbers better than Helvetica. Of course I know that this costs me meta data and non-ASCII. Sorry for the confusion, Frank _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 20 08:45:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTdiG-0002Yf-L4; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 08:45:16 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTdiE-0002YN-Q6 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 08:45:14 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTdiB-0001jt-AN for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 08:45:14 -0400 Received: from sj-dkim-3.cisco.com ([171.71.179.195]) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Mar 2007 05:45:10 -0700 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-3.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l2KCjAs1000862; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 05:45:10 -0700 Received: from xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-211.cisco.com [171.70.151.144]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l2KCitMH002461; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 12:44:55 GMT Received: from xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.187]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 20 Mar 2007 05:44:55 -0700 Received: from [130.129.16.105] ([10.21.89.214]) by xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 20 Mar 2007 05:44:53 -0700 In-Reply-To: <45FF9660.30201@nttv6.net> References: <4BCA7B44-4BF8-4694-AF3B-EBA4B06EB86E@cisco.com> <45FF9660.30201@nttv6.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <167C8585-0E46-479A-8E42-5562AA9040D4@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Fred Baker Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 13:44:50 +0100 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2007 12:44:54.0111 (UTC) FILETIME=[8EEE16F0:01C76AED] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=41405; t=1174394710; x=1175258710; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim3002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=fred@cisco.com; z=From:=20Fred=20Baker=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20idnits=20in=20draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps |Sender:=20; bh=cIQxdCLSILSyJReVVybn32IvOovjvu86RynNF5phAJ8=; b=NPTkO7sAVic6+bjnSAbqJT7qR9tFsJs66RLgbLvaWJCGA9pf+RN/MJt8uDRpMphz4poiBdSy fNg0HVdWMsdTPL9leEiipdAaO5VKPMIDmab1U+tSgc94BiQzJEiivwu0; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-3; header.From=fred@cisco.com; dkim=pass (si g from cisco.com/sjdkim3002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 60b8b0c899e456b83ab883a8a820ab4b Cc: Ruri Hiromi , kanayama@inetcore.com, fujisaki@syce.net, Arifumi Matsumoto Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: idnits in draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Input to the next rev of idnits whenever it comes... I posted the idnits output to a team doing a job in v6ops. The fault in part complained about the use of ULA addresses, which one has to consider correct in the context. We need one of two things: a documented set of ULAs that the tool will accept, or that the tool will accept any ULA. On Mar 20, 2007, at 9:08 AM, Arifumi Matsumoto wrote: > Good Morning Fred. > > About addresses like 3ffe:1800::.. and 192.47.., I can change > them to documentation address. However, about ULA addresses like > fd01:..., how I can change them ? > > Fred Baker wrote: >> I'll need an updated draft addressing this: >> idnits 2.04.01 >> tmp/draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-00.txt: >> tmp/draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-00.txt(243): Found possible >> IPv6 address '3ffe:1800:a:1::' in position 37; this doesn't match >> RFC3848's suggested 2001:DB8::/32 address range. >> --> | 3ffe:1800:a:1::/64 >> ^ >> tmp/draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-00.txt(297): Found possible >> IPv6 address '3ffe:1800::E' in position 52; this doesn't match >> RFC3848's suggested 2001:DB8::/32 address range. >> --> | Internet | | Host-B | 3ffe: >> 1800::EUI64 >> ^ >> tmp/draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-00.txt(310): Found possible >> IPv6 address '3ffe:1800:a:1::' in position 37; this doesn't match >> RFC3848's suggested 2001:DB8::/32 address range. >> --> | 3ffe:1800:a:1::/64 >> ^ >> tmp/draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-00.txt(521): Found possible >> IPv4 address '192.47.163.1' in position 46; this doesn't match >> RFC3330's suggested 192.0.2.0/24 address range. >> --> +-----+--+ A = 192.47.163.1 >> ^ >> tmp/draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-00.txt(531): Found possible >> IPv6 address 'fd01:2:3::' in position 32; this doesn't match >> RFC3848's suggested 2001:DB8::/32 address range. >> --> | fd01:2:3::/48 (ULA) >> ^ >> tmp/draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-00.txt(536): Found possible >> IPv6 address 'fd01:2:3:4::' in position 37; this doesn't match >> RFC3848's suggested 2001:DB8::/32 address range. >> --> | fd01:2:3:4::/64 (ULA) >> ^ >> tmp/draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-00.txt(540): Found possible >> IPv6 address 'fd01:2:3:4::100' in position 37; this doesn't match >> RFC3848's suggested 2001:DB8::/32 address range. >> --> +-+----+ fd01:2:3:4::100 (ULA) >> ^ >> tmp/draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-00.txt(578): Found possible >> IPv6 address 'fc12:3456:789a::80' in position 47; this doesn't >> match RFC3848's suggested 2001:DB8::/32 address range. >> --> +----+-+ +-->+------+ >> fc12:3456:789a::80 >> ^ >> tmp/draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-00.txt(581): Found possible >> IPv6 address 'fc12:3456:789a::' in position 9; this doesn't match >> RFC3848's suggested 2001:DB8::/32 address range. >> --> fc12:3456:789a::/48 | | >> ^ >> tmp/draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-00.txt(710): Appendix start: >> Appendix A. Appendix. Revision History. >> Appendix start: Appendix A. Appendix. Revision History >> Checking boilerplate required by RFC 3978 and 3979, updated by >> RFC 4748: >> * This document has an original RFC 3978 Section 5.4 Copyright >> Line, >> instead of the newer IETF Trust Copyright according to RFC 4748. >> * This document has an original RFC 3978 Section 5.5 Disclaimer, >> instead of >> the newer disclaimer which includes the IETF Trust according >> to RFC 4748. >> Checking nits according to http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id- >> guidelines.txt: >> No issues found here. >> Checking nits according to http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html: >> * There are 1 instance of lines with non-RFC3330-compliant IPv4 >> addresses >> in the document. If these are example addresses, they should >> be changed. >> * There are 8 instances of lines with non-RFC3849-compliant IPv6 >> addresses >> in the document. If these are example addresses, they should >> be changed. >> Miscellaneous warnings: >> - The copyright year in the RFC 3978 Section 5.4 Copyright Line >> does not >> match the current year >> Checking references for intended status: Proposed Standard >> - Outdated reference: A later version (-03) exists of >> draft-fujisaki-dhc-addr-select-opt-02 >> - Outdated reference: A later version (-06) exists of >> draft-ietf-v6ops-nap-04 >> Summary: 4 errors, 3 warnings >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----------- 2 IPv6 Operations Working >> Group A. Matsumoto >> 3 Internet-Draft >> T. Fujisaki >> 4 Intended status: Standards >> Track NTT >> 5 Expires: May 14, >> 2007 R. Hiromi >> 6 >> K. Kanayama >> 7 >> Intec Netcore >> 8 >> November 10, 2006 >> 10 Problem Statement of Default Address Selection in Multi- >> prefix >> 11 Environment: Operational Issues of RFC3484 Default >> Rules >> 12 draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps-00.txt >> 14 Status of this Memo >> 16 By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents >> that any >> 17 applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she >> is aware >> 18 have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or >> she becomes >> 19 aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of >> BCP 79. >> 21 Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet >> Engineering >> 22 Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. >> Note that >> 23 other groups may also distribute working documents as >> Internet- >> 24 Drafts. >> 26 Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum >> of six months >> 27 and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other >> documents at any >> 28 time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as >> reference >> 29 material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." >> 31 The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at >> 32 http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. >> 34 The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be >> accessed at >> 35 http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. >> 37 This Internet-Draft will expire on May 14, 2007. >> 39 Copyright Notice >> 41 Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2006). >> 43 Abstract >> 45 One physical network can carry multiple logical >> networks. Moreover, >> 46 we can use multiple physical networks at the same time in >> a host. In >> 47 that environment, end-hosts might have multiple IP >> addresses and be >> 48 required to use them selectively. Without an appropriate >> source/ >> 49 destination address selection mechanism, the host will >> experience >> 50 some trouble in the communication. RFC 3484 defines both >> the source >> 51 and destination address selection algorithms, but the >> multi-prefix >> 52 environment considered here needs additional rules beyond >> the default >> 53 operation. This document describes the possible problems >> that end- >> 54 hosts could encounter in an environment with multiple >> logical >> 55 networks. >> 57 Table of Contents >> 59 1. >> Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 >> 60 1.1. Scope of this >> document . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 >> 61 2. Problem >> Statement . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 >> 62 2.1. Source Address >> Selection . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 >> 63 2.1.1. Multiple Routers on Single >> Interface . . . . . . . . . 4 >> 64 2.1.2. Ingress Filtering >> Problem . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 >> 65 2.1.3. Half-Closed Network >> Problem . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 >> 66 2.1.4. Combined Use of Global and >> ULA . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 >> 67 2.1.5. Site >> Renumbering . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 >> 68 2.1.6. Multicast Source Address >> Selection . . . . . . . . . . 8 >> 69 2.1.7. Temporary Address >> Selection . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 >> 70 2.2. Destination Address >> Selection . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 >> 71 2.2.1. IPv4 or IPv6 >> prioritization . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 >> 72 2.2.2. ULA and IPv4 dual-stack >> environment . . . . . . . . . 10 >> 73 2.2.3. ULA or Global >> Prioritization . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 >> 74 3. >> Solutions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 >> 75 3.1. More Specific Routes (RFC >> 4191) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 >> 76 3.2. Policy Table >> Manipulation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 >> 77 3.3. Revising RFC >> 3484 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 >> 78 4. >> Conclusion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 >> 79 5. Security >> Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 >> 80 6. IANA >> Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 >> 81 7. >> References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 >> 82 7.1. Normative >> References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 >> 83 7.2. Informative >> References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 >> 84 Appendix A. Appendix. Revision >> History . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 >> 85 Authors' >> Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 >> 86 Intellectual Property and Copyright >> Statements . . . . . . . . . . 15 >> 88 1. Introduction >> 90 One physical network can carry multiple logical >> networks. In that >> 91 case, an end-host has multiple IP addresses. In the IPv4- >> IPv6 dual >> 92 stack environment or in a site connected to both ULA >> [RFC4193] and >> 93 Global scope networks, an end-host has multiple IP >> addresses. These >> 94 are examples of the networks that we focus on in this >> document. In >> 95 such an environment, an end-host will encounter some >> communication >> 96 trouble. >> 98 Inappropriate source address selection at the end-host >> causes >> 99 unexpected asymmetric routing or filtering by a router on >> the way >> 100 back or discard due to there being no route to the host. >> 102 Considering a multi-prefix environment, the destination >> address >> 103 selection is also important for correct communication >> establishment. >> 104 The key to the appropriate process will come from the >> way to >> 105 configure the source address and destination address to the >> 106 interfaces at the end-hosts by the network policy of the >> site. >> 108 RFC 3484 [RFC3484] defines both source and destination >> address >> 109 selection algorithms. In most cases, the host will be >> able to >> 110 communicate with the targeted host using the >> algorithms. But there >> 111 are still problematic cases such as when multiple >> default routes are >> 112 supplied. This document describes such possibilities of >> false >> 113 dropping during address selection. >> 115 In addition, the provision of an address policy table is >> an important >> 116 matter. RFC 3484 describes all the algorithms for >> setting the >> 117 address policy table but it makes no mention of the >> provisions of >> 118 address policy and does not define how to set it except >> manually. >> 120 1.1. Scope of this document >> 122 There has been a lot of discussion about "multiple >> addresses/ >> 123 prefixes" but the multi-homing issues for redundancy are >> out of our >> 124 scope. Cooperation with a mechanism like shim6 is >> rather desirable. >> 125 We focus on an end-site network environment. The scope >> of this >> 126 document is to sort out problematic cases of false >> dropping of the >> 127 address selection within a multi-prefix environment. >> 129 2. Problem Statement >> 131 2.1. Source Address Selection >> 132 2.1.1. Multiple Routers on Single Interface >> 134 ================== >> 135 | Internet | >> 136 ================== >> 137 | | >> 138 2001:db8::/32 | | 3ffe:1800::/32 >> 139 +----+-+ +-+----+ >> 140 | ISP1 | | ISP2 | >> 141 +----+-+ +-+----+ >> 142 | | >> 143 2001:db8:a::/48 | | 3ffe:1800:a::/48 >> 144 +------+---+ +----+-----+ >> 145 | Gateway1 | | Gateway2 | >> 146 +--------+-+ +-+--------+ >> 147 | | >> 148 2001:db8:a:1::/64 | | 3ffe:1800:a:1::/64 >> 149 | | >> 150 -----+-+-----+------ >> 151 | >> 152 +-+----+ 2001:db8:a:1:EUI64 >> 153 | Host | 3ffe:1800:a:1:EUI64 >> 154 +------+ >> 156 [Fig. 1] >> 158 Generally speaking, there is no interaction between next- >> hop >> 159 determination and address selection. In this example, >> when Host >> 160 sends a packet via Gateway1, the Host does not >> necessarily choose the >> 161 address 2001:db8:a:1::EUI64 given by Gateway1 as the >> source address. >> 162 This causes the same problem as described in the next >> section >> 163 'Ingress Filtering Problem'. >> 165 To solve this case, one approach is to configure >> correctly both the >> 166 routing configuration and address selection policy at >> Host. You can >> 167 use RFC 4191 [RFC4191] to deliver routing information to >> hosts. >> 168 Another approach is to configure the gateways to make >> use of packet >> 169 redirection between the gateways. >> 171 2.1.2. Ingress Filtering Problem >> 173 ================== >> 174 | Internet | >> 175 ================== >> 176 | | >> 177 2001:db8::/32 | | 3ffe:1800::/32 >> 178 +----+-+ +-+----+ >> 179 | ISP1 | | ISP2 | >> 180 +----+-+ +-+----+ >> 181 | | >> 182 2001:db8:a::/48 | | 3ffe:1800:a::/48 >> 183 ++-------++ >> 184 | Gateway | >> 185 +----+----+ >> 186 | 2001:db8:a:1::/64 >> 187 | 3ffe:1800:a:1::/64 >> 188 ------+---+---------- >> 189 | >> 190 +-+----+ 2001:db8:a:1:EUI64 >> 191 | Host | 3ffe:1800:a:1:EUI64 >> 192 +------+ >> 194 [Fig. 2] >> 196 When a relatively small site, which we call a "customer >> network", is >> 197 attached to two upstream ISPs, each ISP delegates a >> network address >> 198 block, which is usually /48, and a host has multiple >> IPv6 addresses. >> 200 When the source address of an outgoing packet is not the >> one that is >> 201 delegated by an upstream ISP, there is a possibility >> that the packet >> 202 will be dropped at the ISP by its Ingress Filter. Ingress >> 203 filtering(uRPF: unicast Reverse Path Forwarding) is >> becoming more and >> 204 more popular among ISPs in order to mitigate the damage >> of DoS >> 205 attacks. >> 207 In this example, when the Gateway chooses the default >> route to ISP2 >> 208 and the Host chooses 2001:db8:a:1::EUI64 as the source >> address for >> 209 packets sent to a host(2001:fa8::1) somewhere in the >> Internet, the >> 210 packets may be dropped at ISP2 because of Ingress >> Filtering. >> 212 One possible solution for this problem is to adopt >> source-address- >> 213 based routing at the customer site's gateway, but this >> manner of >> 214 routing is not very popular at the moment. >> 216 2.1.3. Half-Closed Network Problem >> 218 You can see a second typical source address selection >> problem in a >> 219 multihome site with global-closed mixed connectivity >> like the figure >> 220 below. In this case, Host-A is in a multihomed network >> and has two >> 221 IPv6 addresses, one delegated from each of the upstream >> ISPs. Note >> 222 that ISP2 is a closed network and does not have >> connectivity to the >> 223 Internet. >> 225 +--------+ >> 226 | Host-C | 3ffe:503:c:1:EUI64 >> 227 +-----+--+ >> 228 | >> 229 ============== +--------+ >> 230 | Internet | | Host-B | 3ffe: >> 1800::EUI64 >> 231 ============== +--------+ >> 232 | | >> 233 2001:db8::/32 | | 3ffe:1800::/32 >> 234 +----+-+ +-+---++ >> 235 | ISP1 | | ISP2 | (Closed Network/ >> VPN tunnel) >> 236 +----+-+ +-+----+ >> 237 | | >> 238 2001:db8:a::/48 | | 3ffe:1800:a::/48 >> 239 ++-------++ >> 240 | Gateway | >> 241 +----+----+ >> 242 | 2001:db8:a:1::/64 >> 243 | 3ffe:1800:a:1::/64 >> 244 ------+---+---------- >> 245 | >> 246 +--+-----+ 2001:db8:a:1:EUI64 >> 247 | Host-A | 3ffe:1800:a:1:EUI64 >> 248 +--------+ >> 250 [Fig. 3] >> 252 You don't need two physical network connection here. >> The connection >> 253 from Gateway to ISP2 can be a logical link over ISP1 and >> the >> 254 Internet. >> 256 When Host-A starts the connection to Host-B in ISP2, the >> source >> 257 address of a sending packet will be the one delegated >> from ISP2, that >> 258 is 3ffe:1800:a:1:EUI64, because of rule 8 (longest >> matching prefix) >> 259 in RFC 3484. >> 261 Host-C is located somewhere in the Internet and has an >> IPv6 address >> 262 3ffe:503:c:1:EUI64. When Host-A sends a packet to Host- >> C, the >> 263 longest matching algorithm chooses 3ffe:1800:a:1:EUI64 >> for the source >> 264 address. In this case, the packet goes through ISP1 and >> may be >> 265 filtered by ISP1's ingress filter. Even if the packet >> is fortunately >> 266 not filtered by ISP1, a return packet from Host-C cannot >> possibly be >> 267 delivered to Host-A because the return packet is >> destined for 3ffe: >> 268 1800:a:1:EUI64, which is closed from the Internet. >> 270 In this case, source-address-based routing alone >> described in the >> 271 previous section does not solve the problem. What is >> important is >> 272 that each host chooses a correct source address for a given >> 273 destination address as far as NAT does not exist in the >> IPv6 world. >> 275 2.1.4. Combined Use of Global and ULA >> 277 ============ >> 278 | Internet | >> 279 ============ >> 280 | >> 281 | >> 282 +----+----+ >> 283 | ISP | >> 284 +----+----+ >> 285 | >> 286 2001:db8:a::/48 | >> 287 +----+----+ >> 288 | Gateway | >> 289 +-+-----+-+ >> 290 | | 2001:db8:a:100::/64 >> 291 fd01:2:3:200:/64 | | fd01:2:3:100:/64 >> 292 -----+--+- -+--+---- >> 293 | | >> 294 fd01:2:3:200:EUI64 | | 2001:db8:a: >> 100:EUI64 >> 295 +----+----+ +-+----+ fd01:2:3:100:EUI64 >> 296 | Printer | | Host | >> 297 +---------+ +------+ >> 299 [Fig. 4] >> 301 As NAP [I-D.ietf-v6ops-nap] describes, using ULA may be >> beneficial in >> 302 some scenarios. If ULA is used for internal >> communication, packets >> 303 with ULA addresses need to be filtered at Gateway. >> 305 There is no serious problem related to address selection >> in this >> 306 case, thanks to the unlikeness of ULA and Global Unicast >> Address for >> 307 now. RFC 3484's longest matching rule chooses the >> correct address >> 308 for both intra-site and extra-site communication. >> 310 In a few years, however, the longest matching rule will >> not be able >> 311 to choose the correct address anymore: the moment the >> assignment of >> 312 those Global Unicast Addresses whose beginning bit is 1 >> starts. In >> 313 RFC 4291 [RFC4291], almost all the space of IPv6, >> including those >> 314 with beginning bit 1, is assigned as Global Unicast >> Addresses. >> 316 2.1.5. Site Renumbering >> 318 RFC 4192 [RFC4192] describes a recommended procedure for >> renumbering >> 319 a network from one prefix to another. An auto- >> configured address has >> 320 a lifetime, so by stopping advertisement of the old >> prefix it is >> 321 eventually invalidated. >> 323 However, it takes a long time to invalidate the old >> prefix. You >> 324 cannot stop routing to the old prefix as long as the old >> prefix is >> 325 not deprecated. This issue can be a tough issue for ISP >> network >> 326 administrator. >> 328 +-----+---+ >> 329 | Gateway | >> 330 +----+----+ >> 331 | 2001:db8:b::/64 (new) >> 332 | 2001:db8:a::/64 (old) >> 333 ------+---+---------- >> 334 | >> 335 +--+-----+ 2001:db8:b::EUI64 >> (new) >> 336 | Host-A | 2001:db8:a::EUI64 (old) >> 337 +--------+ >> 339 [Fig. 5] >> 341 2.1.6. Multicast Source Address Selection >> 343 This case is an example of Site-local or Global >> prioritization. When >> 344 you send a multicast packet across site-borders, the >> source address >> 345 of the multicast packet must be a global scope address. >> The longest >> 346 matching algorithm, however, selects a ULA address if >> the sending >> 347 host has both a ULA and a global address. >> 349 2.1.7. Temporary Address Selection >> 351 RFC 3041 [RFC3041] defines a Temporary Address. The >> usage of >> 352 Temporary Address has both pros and cons. It is good >> for viewing >> 353 web-pages or communicating with the general public, but >> it is bad for >> 354 a service that uses address-based authentication and for >> logging >> 355 purpose. >> 357 It would be better if you could turn the temporary >> address on and >> 358 off. It would also be better if you could switch its >> usage per >> 359 service(destination address). The same situation can be >> found when >> 360 using HA and CoA in MobileIP network. >> 362 2.2. Destination Address Selection >> 364 2.2.1. IPv4 or IPv6 prioritization >> 366 The default policy table gives IPv6 addresses higher >> precedence than >> 367 IPv4 addresses. There seem to be many cases, however, >> where network >> 368 administrators want to control the address selection >> policy of end- >> 369 hosts the other way around. >> 371 +---------+ >> 372 | Tunnel | >> 373 | Service | >> 374 +--+---++-+ >> 375 | || >> 376 | || >> 377 ===========||== >> 378 | Internet || | >> 379 ===========||== >> 380 | || >> 381 192.0.2.0/24 | || >> 382 +----+-+ || >> 383 | ISP | || >> 384 +----+-+ || >> 385 | || >> 386 IPv4 (Native) | || IPv6 (Tunnel) >> 387 192.0.2.0/26 | || >> 388 ++-----++-+ >> 389 | Gateway | >> 390 +----+----+ >> 391 | 2001:db8:a:1::/64 >> 392 | 192.0.2.0/28 >> 393 | >> 394 ------+---+---------- >> 395 | >> 396 +-+----+ 2001:db8:a:1:EUI64 >> 397 | Host | 192.0.2.2 >> 398 +------+ >> 400 [Fig. 6] >> 402 In the figure above, a site has native IPv4 and tunneled >> IPv6 >> 403 connectivity. Therefore, the administrator may want to >> set a higher >> 404 priority for using IPv4 than using IPv6 because the >> quality of the >> 405 tunnel network seems to be worse than that of the native >> transport. >> 407 2.2.2. ULA and IPv4 dual-stack environment >> 409 This is a special form of IPv4 and IPv6 prioritization. >> When an >> 410 enterprise has IPv4 Internet connectivity but does not >> yet have IPv6 >> 411 Internet connectivity, and the enterprise wants to >> provide site-local >> 412 IPv6 connectivity, ULA is the best choice for site-local >> IPv6 >> 413 connectivity. Each employee host will have both an IPv4 >> global or >> 414 private address and a ULA. Here, when this host tries >> to connect to >> 415 Host-C that has registered both A and AAAA records in >> the DNS, the >> 416 host will choose AAAA as the destination address and ULA >> for the >> 417 source address. This will clearly result in a >> connection failure. >> 419 +--------+ >> 420 | Host-C | AAAA = 2001:db8::80 >> 421 +-----+--+ A = 192.47.163.1 >> 422 | >> 423 ============ >> 424 | Internet | >> 425 ============ >> 426 | no IPv6 connectivity >> 427 +----+----+ >> 428 | Gateway | >> 429 +----+----+ >> 430 | >> 431 | fd01:2:3::/48 (ULA) >> 432 | 192.0.2.0/24 >> 433 ++--------+ >> 434 | Router | >> 435 +----+----+ >> 436 | fd01:2:3:4::/64 (ULA) >> 437 | 192.0.2.240/28 >> 438 ------+---+---------- >> 439 | >> 440 +-+----+ fd01:2:3:4::100 (ULA) >> 441 | Host | 192.0.2.245 >> 442 +------+ >> 444 [Fig. 7] >> 446 2.2.3. ULA or Global Prioritization >> 448 It is very common to differentiate services by the >> client's source >> 449 address. IP-address-based authentication is an extreme >> example of >> 450 this. Another typical example is a web service that has >> pages for >> 451 the public and internal pages for employees or involved >> parties. Yet >> 452 another example is DNS zone splitting. >> 454 However, ULA and IPv6 global address both have global >> scope, and RFC >> 455 3484 default rules do not specify which address should >> be given >> 456 priority. This point makes IPv6 implementation of >> address-based >> 457 service differentiation a bit harder. >> 459 +------+ >> 460 | Host | >> 461 +-+--|-+ >> 462 | | >> 463 ===========|== >> 464 | Internet | | >> 465 ===========|== >> 466 | | >> 467 | | >> 468 +----+-+ +-->+------+ >> 469 | ISP +------+ DNS | 2001:db8:a::80 >> 470 +----+-+ +-->+------+ >> fc12:3456:789a::80 >> 471 | | >> 472 2001:db8:a::/48 | | >> 473 fc12:3456:789a::/48 | | >> 474 +----+----|+ >> 475 | Gateway || >> 476 +---+-----|+ >> 477 | | 2001:db8:a:100::/64 >> 478 | | fc12:3456:789a:100:/64 >> 479 --+-+---|----- >> 480 | | >> 481 +-+---|+ 2001:db8:a:100:EUI64 >> 482 | Host | fc12:3456:789a:100:EUI64 >> 483 +------+ >> 485 [Fig. 7] >> 487 3. Solutions >> 489 3.1. More Specific Routes (RFC 4191) >> 491 This method enables network administrator to distribute >> routing >> 492 information to end-hosts. It can solve only two >> problems in this >> 493 document, that is 2.1.1, 2.2.2. Routing information >> doesn't >> 494 determine the source address when multiple addresses are >> attached to >> 495 the outgoing network interface. So, it cannot be used >> for every >> 496 cases here. >> 498 3.2. Policy Table Manipulation >> 500 Almost all the problem cases raised in this document can >> be solved by >> 501 configuring the policy table at end-hosts. The problem >> for a site- >> 502 administrator is that he does not have the means to >> deliver policies >> 503 to end-hosts. Therefore, we proposed a method for policy >> 504 distribution in the form of DHCPv6 option >> 505 [I-D.fujisaki-dhc-addr-select-opt]. The usage of this >> mechanisim is >> 506 illustrated in another I-D [I-D.arifumi-ipv6-policy-dist]. >> 508 3.3. Revising RFC 3484 >> 510 Revising address selection rules defined in RFC 3484 in >> another idea. >> 511 These problems are, however, too network-environment- >> specific, so >> 512 it's not easy to have all-purpose rule set. >> 514 4. Conclusion >> 516 We have covered problems related to destination or >> source address >> 517 selection. These problems have their roots in the >> situation where >> 518 end-hosts have multiple IP addresses. In this >> situation, every end- >> 519 host must choose an appropriate destination and source >> address, which >> 520 cannot be achieved only by routers. >> 522 It should be noted that end-hosts must be informed about >> routing >> 523 policies of their upstream networks for appropriate address >> 524 selection. A site administrator must consider every >> possible address >> 525 false-selection problem and take countermeasures >> beforehand. >> 527 5. Security Considerations >> 529 Address false-selection can lead to serious security >> problem, such as >> 530 session hijack. However, it should be noted that >> address selection >> 531 is eventually up to end-hosts. We have no means to >> enforce one >> 532 specific address selection policy to every end-host. >> So, a network >> 533 administrator has to take countermeasures for unexpected >> address >> 534 selection. >> 536 6. IANA Considerations >> 538 This document has no actions for IANA. >> 540 7. References >> 542 7.1. Normative References >> 544 [RFC3484] Draves, R., "Default Address Selection for >> Internet >> 545 Protocol version 6 (IPv6)", RFC 3484, >> February 2003. >> 547 [RFC4193] Hinden, R. and B. Haberman, "Unique Local >> IPv6 Unicast >> 548 Addresses", RFC 4193, October 2005. >> 550 7.2. Informative References >> 552 [I-D.arifumi-ipv6-policy-dist] >> 553 Matsumoto, A., "Practical Usages of Address >> Selection >> 554 Policy Distribution", draft-arifumi-ipv6- >> policy-dist-01 >> 555 (work in progress), June 2006. >> 557 [I-D.fujisaki-dhc-addr-select-opt] >> 558 Fujisaki, T., "Distributing Default Address >> Selection >> 559 Policy using DHCPv6", >> 560 draft-fujisaki-dhc-addr-select-opt-02 (work >> in progress), >> 561 June 2006. >> 563 [I-D.ietf-v6ops-nap] >> 564 Velde, G., "Network Architecture Protection >> for IPv6", >> 565 draft-ietf-v6ops-nap-04 (work in progress), >> October 2006. >> 567 [RFC3041] Narten, T. and R. Draves, "Privacy Extensions >> for >> 568 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration in IPv6", >> RFC 3041, >> 569 January 2001. >> 571 [RFC4191] Draves, R. and D. Thaler, "Default Router >> Preferences and >> 572 More-Specific Routes", RFC 4191, November 2005. >> 574 [RFC4192] Baker, F., Lear, E., and R. Droms, >> "Procedures for >> 575 Renumbering an IPv6 Network without a Flag >> Day", RFC 4192, >> 576 September 2005. >> 578 [RFC4291] Hinden, R. and S. Deering, "IP Version 6 >> Addressing >> 579 Architecture", RFC 4291, February 2006. >> 581 Appendix A. Appendix. Revision History >> 583 01: >> 584 Authors' addresses corrected. >> 585 Solutions section added. >> 586 Security Considerations section fully rewritten. >> 587 Some editorial changes. >> 589 Authors' Addresses >> 591 Arifumi Matsumoto >> 592 NTT PF Lab >> 593 Midori-Cho 3-9-11 >> 594 Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 >> 595 Japan >> 597 Phone: +81 422 59 3334 >> 598 Email: arifumi@nttv6.net >> 600 Tomohiro Fujisaki >> 601 NTT PF Lab >> 602 Midori-Cho 3-9-11 >> 603 Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 >> 604 Japan >> 606 Phone: +81 422 59 7351 >> 607 Email: fujisaki@syce.net >> 609 Ruri Hiromi >> 610 Intec Netcore, Inc. >> 611 Shinsuna 1-3-3 >> 612 Koto-ku, Tokyo 136-0075 >> 613 Japan >> 615 Phone: +81 3 5665 5069 >> 616 Email: hiromi@inetcore.com >> 618 Ken-ichi Kanayama >> 619 Intec Netcore, Inc. >> 620 Shinsuna 1-3-3 >> 621 Koto-ku, Tokyo 136-0075 >> 622 Japan >> 624 Phone: +81 3 5665 5069 >> 625 Email: kanayama@inetcore.com >> 627 Full Copyright Statement >> 629 Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2006). >> 631 This document is subject to the rights, licenses and >> restrictions >> 632 contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, >> the authors >> 633 retain all their rights. >> 635 This document and the information contained herein are >> provided on an >> 636 "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/ >> SHE REPRESENTS >> 637 OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY AND >> THE INTERNET >> 638 ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS >> OR IMPLIED, >> 639 INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE >> OF THE >> 640 INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY >> IMPLIED >> 641 WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A >> PARTICULAR PURPOSE. >> 643 Intellectual Property >> 645 The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or >> scope of any >> 646 Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might >> be claimed to >> 647 pertain to the implementation or use of the technology >> described in >> 648 this document or the extent to which any license under >> such rights >> 649 might or might not be available; nor does it represent >> that it has >> 650 made any independent effort to identify any such >> rights. Information >> 651 on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC >> documents can be >> 652 found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. >> 654 Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat >> and any >> 655 assurances of licenses to be made available, or the >> result of an >> 656 attempt made to obtain a general license or permission >> for the use of >> 657 such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this >> 658 specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR >> repository at >> 659 http://www.ietf.org/ipr. >> 661 The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its >> attention any >> 662 copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other >> proprietary >> 663 rights that may cover technology that may be required to >> implement >> 664 this standard. Please address the information to the >> IETF at >> 665 ietf-ipr@ietf.org. >> 667 Acknowledgment >> 669 Funding for the RFC Editor function is provided by the IETF >> 670 Administrative Support Activity (IASA). _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 20 11:55:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTgfr-0006Sp-Lo; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:54:59 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTgfq-0006Sj-Nx for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:54:58 -0400 Received: from av6-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.179]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTgfo-0008Sw-4u for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:54:58 -0400 Received: by av6-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 5627237E6A; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:54:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.102]) by av6-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21AF337E47; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:54:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (81-232-110-214-no16.tbcn.telia.com [81.232.110.214]) by smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9078E37E4E; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:54:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HTgfZ-0005hT-U5; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:54:42 +0100 Message-ID: <460003C1.50906@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:54:41 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fred Baker Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Re: idnits in draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps References: <4BCA7B44-4BF8-4694-AF3B-EBA4B06EB86E@cisco.com> <45FF9660.30201@nttv6.net> <167C8585-0E46-479A-8E42-5562AA9040D4@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <167C8585-0E46-479A-8E42-5562AA9040D4@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: fred@cisco.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, hiromi@inetcore.com, kanayama@inetcore.com, fujisaki@syce.net, arifumi@nttv6.net, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Cc: fujisaki@syce.net, Arifumi Matsumoto , kanayama@inetcore.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, Ruri Hiromi X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hi Fred, (Resending with a body size which will be accepted by the list) on 2007-03-20 13:44 Fred Baker said the following: > Input to the next rev of idnits whenever it comes... > > I posted the idnits output to a team doing a job in v6ops. The fault > in part complained about the use of ULA addresses, which one has to > consider correct in the context. We need one of two things: a > documented set of ULAs that the tool will accept, or that the tool > will accept any ULA. Right. Currently, no ULAs are accepted. I can implement either of your proposals easily: (a) Accept any address in the FC00::/7 range (b) Accept a subset of FC00::/7 as informally allocated documentation ULAs; e.g., FC00:2001:db8::/48 It seems to me that (a) is preferable, as (b) has the drawback that people won't generally know about it unless we produce a rfc3849bis. Would that work? Or would people find some variation on (b) better? Henrik > On Mar 20, 2007, at 9:08 AM, Arifumi Matsumoto wrote: >> Good Morning Fred. >> >> About addresses like 3ffe:1800::.. and 192.47.., I can change >> them to documentation address. However, about ULA addresses like >> fd01:..., how I can change them ? ... _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 20 12:39:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HThMg-0003Gm-1f; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 12:39:14 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HThMe-0003G9-Ng for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 12:39:12 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HThME-0007FC-SJ for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 12:39:12 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Mar 2007 17:38:47 +0100 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l2KGckA8021421; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:38:46 +0100 Received: from xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com (xbh-ams-332.cisco.com [144.254.231.87]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l2KGcUlZ011929; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:38:30 GMT Received: from xfe-ams-332.cisco.com ([144.254.231.73]) by xbh-ams-332.emea.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:38:30 +0100 Received: from [10.0.0.240] ([10.61.66.64]) by xfe-ams-332.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:38:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: <46000047.8000603@levkowetz.com> References: <4BCA7B44-4BF8-4694-AF3B-EBA4B06EB86E@cisco.com> <45FF9660.30201@nttv6.net> <167C8585-0E46-479A-8E42-5562AA9040D4@cisco.com> <46000047.8000603@levkowetz.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <12F9D44B-6738-4137-8B10-85C4FD0966DA@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Fred Baker Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Re: idnits in draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 17:38:27 +0100 To: Henrik Levkowetz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2007 16:38:29.0876 (UTC) FILETIME=[30FA1B40:01C76B0E] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=239; t=1174408726; x=1175272726; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=fred@cisco.com; z=From:=20Fred=20Baker=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[Tools-discuss]=20Re=3A=20idnits=20in=20draft-ietf-v6 ops-addr-select-ps |Sender:=20; bh=SfnJCyqJH3BMUvRzoPczUrQgc017ffrMWr40/Ur1Eek=; b=wdjfWqxGSZZHpXaky9e5M60AkNMBpb+UMC68j3zubXXnInncsC+8MpuEQuXe5oKuhPfhYbFE YTpTlhrbtJSA0dqhh79uw6yjJrVgBUp2CCmExH4qkRxASSXfFby7XFgA; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=fred@cisco.com; dkim=pass (s ig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Cc: fujisaki@syce.net, Arifumi Matsumoto , kanayama@inetcore.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, Ruri Hiromi X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org On Mar 20, 2007, at 4:39 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > It seems to me that (a) is preferable, as (b) has the drawback > that people won't generally know about it unless we produce a > rfc3849bis. I'm OK wit (a) accept all ULAs. _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Mar 20 13:32:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTiCC-0007rz-Iy; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 13:32:28 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTiCB-0007qA-KV for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 13:32:27 -0400 Received: from av9-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net ([81.228.8.180]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HTiBt-0001Jf-C3 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 13:32:27 -0400 Received: by av9-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id CDB3938378; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:32:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtp4-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (smtp4-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net [81.228.8.93]) by av9-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B92F338354; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:32:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (81-232-110-214-no16.tbcn.telia.com [81.232.110.214]) by smtp4-2-sn2.hy.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A0D37E43; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:32:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HTiBq-0004I0-7X; Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:32:06 +0100 Message-ID: <46001A96.3040602@levkowetz.com> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:32:06 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Macintosh/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fred Baker Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Re: idnits in draft-ietf-v6ops-addr-select-ps References: <4BCA7B44-4BF8-4694-AF3B-EBA4B06EB86E@cisco.com> <45FF9660.30201@nttv6.net> <167C8585-0E46-479A-8E42-5562AA9040D4@cisco.com> <46000047.8000603@levkowetz.com> <12F9D44B-6738-4137-8B10-85C4FD0966DA@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <12F9D44B-6738-4137-8B10-85C4FD0966DA@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.2.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: fred@cisco.com, fujisaki@syce.net, arifumi@nttv6.net, kanayama@inetcore.com, tools-discuss@ietf.org, hiromi@inetcore.com, henrik-sent@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org, Ruri Hiromi , kanayama@inetcore.com, fujisaki@syce.net, Arifumi Matsumoto X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hi, on 2007-03-20 17:38 Fred Baker said the following: > On Mar 20, 2007, at 4:39 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > >> It seems to me that (a) is preferable, as (b) has the drawback >> that people won't generally know about it unless we produce a >> rfc3849bis. > > I'm OK wit (a) accept all ULAs. Ok. idnits v2.04.03 is out with this implemented. Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 28 13:00:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWbVV-0003eI-Mm; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:00:21 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HU12o-0004fG-N1 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:40:02 -0400 Received: from mail.mail.rss.rogers.com ([142.146.31.23]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HU12Y-0005TX-Gf for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:40:02 -0400 Received: from rssesnexigwb.rss.rogers.com (HELO rsoesnexigwb.rci.rogers.ca) ([142.146.14.122]) by mail.mail.rss.rogers.com with ESMTP; 21 Mar 2007 09:38:14 -0400 Received: from RSSESNGTABHA.rci.rogers.ca ([10.1.235.19]) by rsoesnexigwb.rci.rogers.ca with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:38:14 -0400 Received: from CL01ESN04GTAMBD.rci.rogers.ca ([10.1.89.16]) by RSSESNGTABHA.rci.rogers.ca with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:38:13 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 09:37:16 -0400 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Remote participation Thread-Index: AcdrvghjjuONdFTDSLCIG0qO+dqyyw== From: "Peter Sherbin" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Mar 2007 13:38:13.0294 (UTC) FILETIME=[2C346CE0:01C76BBE] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:00:21 -0400 Subject: [Tools-discuss] Remote participation X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org To Whom it May Concern: What are options to listen / participate in plenary sessions remotely? Thank you, Peter Sherbin Product Manager, Business IP Services 416 718-6469 _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 28 13:06:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWbb7-0006T6-8a; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:06:09 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWbb5-0006Sz-RE for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:06:07 -0400 Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWbb4-0003r6-9c for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:06:07 -0400 Received: from root by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1HWbQM-0007Hb-6G for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:55:02 +0200 Received: from d252026.dialin.hansenet.de ([80.171.252.26]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:55:02 +0200 Received: from nobody by d252026.dialin.hansenet.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:55:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: tools-discuss@ietf.org From: Frank Ellermann Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:20:44 +0200 Organization: Lines: 26 Message-ID: <460A95DC.4C8F@xyzzy.claranet.de> References: <20070327203242.GA12587@sources.org> <6.0.0.20.2.20070328130410.056b4e30__23496.6057622389$1175062255$gmane$org@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: d252026.dialin.hansenet.de X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (OS/2; U) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: ltru@lists.ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: An official Web site for IETF Languages? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Martin Duerst wrote: > [chair hat on] > As already said below, there are no official Web pages for > IETF standards/BCPs or IETF WGs. But there is no need for > a Web site to be official to be useful. Hi, I copy that question to the tools list, after all tools pages for WGs are only "semi-official". They've links to the jabber logs, charter, official drafts, related drafts, etc., so maybe it's possible to sneak in a link to related pages somewhere, if the Chair(s) support(s) it. For LTRU that could be Stephane's site, and for DKIM Dave's dkim.org. There are more examples. It would be also nice to have a list of all IANA expert review lists established by IETF RFCs, a subset of what's now the list of "other lists". With that list the IESG, IANA, and other folks would always know what _should_ be out there. Based on that not yet existing list of review lists the tools server could allow to add "related review lists" to WG pages, in the case of WG LTRU iana-languages. Frank _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 28 13:40:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWc7s-0003rW-2K; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:40:00 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWc7r-0003rR-1L for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:39:59 -0400 Received: from mail121.messagelabs.com ([216.82.241.195]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWc7n-0001ih-OJ for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:39:59 -0400 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-10.tower-121.messagelabs.com!1175103594!16690768!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7.1; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [134.24.146.4] Received: (qmail 31567 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2007 17:39:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO attrh0i.attrh.att.com) (134.24.146.4) by server-10.tower-121.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2007 17:39:54 -0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh0i.attrh.att.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l2SHdss8021132 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:39:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by attrh0i.attrh.att.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l2SHdow8021093 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:39:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [135.91.110.64] (thansen-n.mt.att.com[135.91.110.64](untrusted sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20070328173950gw10010g4qe> (Authid: tony); Wed, 28 Mar 2007 17:39:50 +0000 Message-ID: <460AA884.9060804@att.com> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:40:20 -0400 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Subject: [Tools-discuss] any palm hackers out there? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org It's been suggested that there be a downloadable version of the venue maps that we've been providing the last couple of IETFs. I'm interested in pursuing this further, and think the first version should be a palm application. But, I have limited experience writing palm programs. Is there anyone who would be willing to help out in such an effort? Tony Hansen tony@att.com _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 28 13:47:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWcFA-0007sv-2P; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:47:32 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWcF9-0007sq-0k for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:47:31 -0400 Received: from vapor.isi.edu ([128.9.64.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWcF7-0002tF-MH for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:47:31 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (110.sub-75-214-197.myvzw.com [75.214.197.110]) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l2SHlFCO016470; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <460AAA18.6020801@isi.edu> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 10:47:04 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (Windows/20070116) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Hansen Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] any palm hackers out there? References: <460AA884.9060804@att.com> In-Reply-To: <460AA884.9060804@att.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2.0 X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0203840979==" Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============0203840979== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigFE44E26A9CD52BD8BB814E39" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigFE44E26A9CD52BD8BB814E39 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tony Hansen wrote: > It's been suggested that there be a downloadable version of the venue > maps that we've been providing the last couple of IETFs. I'm interested= > in pursuing this further, and think the first version should be a palm > application. But, I have limited experience writing palm programs. Why not just post a PDF? There's a viewer for the Palm. Joe --------------enigFE44E26A9CD52BD8BB814E39 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGCqoYE5f5cImnZrsRAgDsAKDUivn0FJZLMfNEZQ+OxCLRWXCvAwCcDw05 cofc5I+pUXH9ZxoSHcuvpPk= =5pPw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigFE44E26A9CD52BD8BB814E39-- --===============0203840979== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --===============0203840979==-- From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Wed Mar 28 13:57:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWcOd-0003ww-Qq; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:57:19 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWcOb-0003wi-Vr for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:57:17 -0400 Received: from mail146.messagelabs.com ([216.82.245.131]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWcOa-00045l-N1 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:57:17 -0400 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-7.tower-146.messagelabs.com!1175104635!6274629!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7.1; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [134.24.146.4] Received: (qmail 25001 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2007 17:57:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO attrh0i.attrh.att.com) (134.24.146.4) by server-7.tower-146.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2007 17:57:15 -0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh0i.attrh.att.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l2SHvEru005081 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by attrh0i.attrh.att.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l2SHvCDM005063 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [135.91.110.64] (thansen-n.mt.att.com[135.91.110.64](untrusted sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20070328175712gw10010g50e> (Authid: tony); Wed, 28 Mar 2007 17:57:12 +0000 Message-ID: <460AAC95.4020700@att.com> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:57:41 -0400 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] any palm hackers out there? References: <460AA884.9060804@att.com> <460AAA18.6020801@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <460AAA18.6020801@isi.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Just converting from PNG to PDF isn't sufficient as the words on it are not readable. Would Acrobat Reader easily allow interactivity for a PDF version of a venue map? BTW, viewing the web page via the web works just fine for me. And people could easily download just the web page for viewing offline. Tony Hansen tony@att.com Joe Touch wrote: > > Tony Hansen wrote: >> It's been suggested that there be a downloadable version of the venue >> maps that we've been providing the last couple of IETFs. I'm interested >> in pursuing this further, and think the first version should be a palm >> application. But, I have limited experience writing palm programs. > > Why not just post a PDF? There's a viewer for the Palm. _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 29 00:55:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWmfE-00041w-Ej; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:55:08 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWmfD-00041r-Ct for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:55:07 -0400 Received: from vapor.isi.edu ([128.9.64.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWmfC-0005pX-1J for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:55:07 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (pool-71-106-84-92.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.106.84.92]) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l2T4sj0Y025336; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 21:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <460B4689.3050304@isi.edu> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 21:54:33 -0700 From: Joe Touch User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0b2 (Windows/20070116) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Hansen Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] any palm hackers out there? References: <460AA884.9060804@att.com> <460AAA18.6020801@isi.edu> <460AAC95.4020700@att.com> In-Reply-To: <460AAC95.4020700@att.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2.0 X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0770826993==" Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============0770826993== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigF9F3C5835C8618A4E84EB718" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigF9F3C5835C8618A4E84EB718 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tony Hansen wrote: > Just converting from PNG to PDF isn't sufficient as the words on it are= > not readable. They should be if they are in the PNG; alternately, the PDF could be created from the same source. > Would Acrobat Reader easily allow interactivity for a PDF version of a > venue map? Zoom, pan, sure. I don't know what more interactivity is needed in a map. Too many Palm apps are written when a data file to an existing app would suffice. Here's an alternative to PDF: http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e9825234/mapview/index.html > BTW, viewing the web page via the web works just fine for me. And peopl= e > could easily download just the web page for viewing offline. That's not as direct on a Palm; not all Palms have web viewers. Joe --------------enigF9F3C5835C8618A4E84EB718 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGC0aJE5f5cImnZrsRAr3sAJ912PpctzMiVG3itj7TWsYbzSWzpwCfZd+L K3/yDSWf6zHL66ZIuQYKh+w= =FEKk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigF9F3C5835C8618A4E84EB718-- --===============0770826993== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss --===============0770826993==-- From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 29 08:38:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWttX-0000xR-OO; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:38:23 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWttW-0000x6-Nj for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:38:22 -0400 Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.60]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWttP-0003rL-4R for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:38:22 -0400 Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 8FCE620BEC; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:38:12 +0200 (CEST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-a9cedbb0000073d5-9a-460bb3340b1d Received: from esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.121]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 84CAB20B0C; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:38:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.170]) by esealmw128.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:38:12 +0200 Received: from [147.214.237.61] ([147.214.237.61]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:38:11 +0200 Message-ID: <460BB334.4040006@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:38:12 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.9 (Macintosh/20061207) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Ellermann Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Re: An official Web site for IETF Languages? References: <20070327203242.GA12587@sources.org> <6.0.0.20.2.20070328130410.056b4e30__23496.6057622389$1175062255$gmane$org@localhost> <460A95DC.4C8F@xyzzy.claranet.de> In-Reply-To: <460A95DC.4C8F@xyzzy.claranet.de> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Mar 2007 12:38:11.0679 (UTC) FILETIME=[1CC796F0:01C771FF] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Cc: ltru@lists.ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Hi Frank, Martin, On 2007-03-28 18:20 Frank Ellermann said the following: > Martin Duerst wrote: > >> [chair hat on] >> As already said below, there are no official Web pages for >> IETF standards/BCPs or IETF WGs. But there is no need for >> a Web site to be official to be useful. > > Hi, I copy that question to the tools list, after all tools > pages for WGs are only "semi-official". They've links to > the jabber logs, charter, official drafts, related drafts, > etc., so maybe it's possible to sneak in a link to related > pages somewhere, if the Chair(s) support(s) it. Sure. I just have to work out a good way of doing it so that it becomes self-service for the chairs, rather than them having to ask me to do it -- that makes me a bottleneck. > For LTRU that could be Stephane's site, and for DKIM Dave's > dkim.org. There are more examples. > > It would be also nice to have a list of all IANA expert > review lists established by IETF RFCs, a subset of what's > now the list of "other lists". With that list the IESG, > IANA, and other folks would always know what _should_ be > out there. Based on that not yet existing list of review > lists the tools server could allow to add "related review > lists" to WG pages, in the case of WG LTRU iana-languages. Right, that seems useful and reasonable. Henrik _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 29 11:28:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWwYO-0007N7-M7; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:28:44 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWwYN-0007N1-Nd for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:28:43 -0400 Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com ([216.82.250.83]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWwYJ-0008T0-B3 for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:28:43 -0400 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-10.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1175182118!14754687!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7.1; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [134.24.146.4] Received: (qmail 18338 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2007 15:28:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO attrh9i.attrh.att.com) (134.24.146.4) by server-10.tower-120.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 29 Mar 2007 15:28:38 -0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh9i.attrh.att.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l2TFSa2q003293 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:28:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by attrh9i.attrh.att.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l2TFSWHk003245 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:28:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [135.210.113.178] (unknown[135.210.113.178](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20070329152833gw10010gbce> (Authid: tony); Thu, 29 Mar 2007 15:28:33 +0000 Message-ID: <460BDB43.8000206@att.com> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:29:07 -0400 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] any palm hackers out there? References: <460AA884.9060804@att.com> <460AAA18.6020801@isi.edu> <460AAC95.4020700@att.com> <460B4689.3050304@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <460B4689.3050304@isi.edu> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org I think we're having a serious disconnect here. My take is that people want a "room finder", not a "map". Yes, acrobat offers zoom and pan. And if you have sufficient detail within the map, you can zoom around and pan around a map. That's all fine and dandy if you know where you want to go and need to know how to navigate there. But it doesn't help you quickly *find* a given room. And I agree with the people asking that that's where a small app *could* be beneficial. Tony Hansen tony@att.com Joe Touch wrote: > > Tony Hansen wrote: >> Just converting from PNG to PDF isn't sufficient as the words on it are >> not readable. > > They should be if they are in the PNG; alternately, the PDF could be > created from the same source. > >> Would Acrobat Reader easily allow interactivity for a PDF version of a >> venue map? > > Zoom, pan, sure. I don't know what more interactivity is needed in a > map. Too many Palm apps are written when a data file to an existing app > would suffice. Here's an alternative to PDF: > > http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e9825234/mapview/index.html > >> BTW, viewing the web page via the web works just fine for me. And people >> could easily download just the web page for viewing offline. > > That's not as direct on a Palm; not all Palms have web viewers. > > Joe > > _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 29 12:07:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWx9Z-0001TA-Qs; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:07:09 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWlt8-00083D-Ku for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:05:26 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWlt4-0001YB-TF for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:05:26 -0400 Received: from fe-amer-04.sun.com ([192.18.108.178]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l2T45M7a026799 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 04:05:22 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JFN00401CHOWL00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Chris.Newman@Sun.COM) for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:05:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dhcp-blr03-251-131.india.sun.com ([129.158.251.131]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JFN00FJGCOTG120@mail-amer.sun.com>; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:05:22 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 09:35:17 +0530 From: Chris Newman In-reply-to: <460A95DC.4C8F@xyzzy.claranet.de> To: Frank Ellermann , ltru@lists.ietf.org Message-id: <1E33069B13A9916F8B4058BB@dhcp-blr03-251-131.india.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline References: <20070327203242.GA12587@sources.org> <460A95DC.4C8F@xyzzy.claranet.de> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:07:08 -0400 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: [Ltru] Re: An official Web site for IETF Languages? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org This has been done before. See the WG page for lemonade: which points to an "Additional LEMONADE Web Page". If the WG chair asks the area advisor (that's now me for LTRU) to add such a link, I'll put in a ticket with the secretariat to do that. On the tools front, it would be nice if updates to the charter page (with the exception of the charter text itself which requires full IESG approval) that are within the purview of the area directors / WG chairs could be made directly. - Chris Frank Ellermann wrote on 3/28/07 18:20 +0200: > Martin Duerst wrote: > >> [chair hat on] >> As already said below, there are no official Web pages for >> IETF standards/BCPs or IETF WGs. But there is no need for >> a Web site to be official to be useful. > > Hi, I copy that question to the tools list, after all tools > pages for WGs are only "semi-official". They've links to > the jabber logs, charter, official drafts, related drafts, > etc., so maybe it's possible to sneak in a link to related > pages somewhere, if the Chair(s) support(s) it. > > For LTRU that could be Stephane's site, and for DKIM Dave's > dkim.org. There are more examples. > > It would be also nice to have a list of all IANA expert > review lists established by IETF RFCs, a subset of what's > now the list of "other From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 29 12:07:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWx9Z-0001TA-Qs; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:07:09 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWlt8-00083D-Ku for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:05:26 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWlt4-0001YB-TF for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:05:26 -0400 Received: from fe-amer-04.sun.com ([192.18.108.178]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l2T45M7a026799 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 04:05:22 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JFN00401CHOWL00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Chris.Newman@Sun.COM) for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:05:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dhcp-blr03-251-131.india.sun.com ([129.158.251.131]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JFN00FJGCOTG120@mail-amer.sun.com>; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:05:22 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 09:35:17 +0530 From: Chris Newman In-reply-to: <460A95DC.4C8F@xyzzy.claranet.de> To: Frank Ellermann , ltru@lists.ietf.org Message-id: <1E33069B13A9916F8B4058BB@dhcp-blr03-251-131.india.sun.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline References: <20070327203242.GA12587@sources.org> <460A95DC.4C8F@xyzzy.claranet.de> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:07:08 -0400 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: [Ltru] Re: An official Web site for IETF Languages? X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org This has been done before. See the WG page for lemonade: which points to an "Additional LEMONADE Web Page". If the WG chair asks the area advisor (that's now me for LTRU) to add such a link, I'll put in a ticket with the secretariat to do that. On the tools front, it would be nice if updates to the charter page (with the exception of the charter text itself which requires full IESG approval) that are within the purview of the area directors / WG chairs could be made directly. - Chris Frank Ellermann wrote on 3/28/07 18:20 +0200: > Martin Duerst wrote: > >> [chair hat on] >> As already said below, there are no official Web pages for >> IETF standards/BCPs or IETF WGs. But there is no need for >> a Web site to be official to be useful. > > Hi, I copy that question to the tools list, after all tools > pages for WGs are only "semi-official". They've links to > the jabber logs, charter, official drafts, related drafts, > etc., so maybe it's possible to sneak in a link to related > pages somewhere, if the Chair(s) support(s) it. > > For LTRU that could be Stephane's site, and for DKIM Dave's > dkim.org. There are more examples. > > It would be also nice to have a list of all IANA expert > review lists established by IETF RFCs, a subset of what's > now the list of "other lists". With that list the IESG, > IANA, and other folks would always know what _should_ be > out there. Based on that not yet existing list of review > lists the tools server could allow to add "related review > lists" to WG pages, in the case of WG LTRU iana-languages. > > Frank > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 29 12:07:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWx9Z-0001TK-UH; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:07:09 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWm3i-0005re-Or for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:16:22 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWm3h-0004Ii-5Z for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:16:22 -0400 Received: from fe-amer-04.sun.com ([192.18.108.178]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l2T4GKpf016734 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 04:16:20 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JFN00601CXHKC00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Chris.Newman@Sun.COM) for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dhcp-blr03-251-131.india.sun.com ([129.158.251.131]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JFN00FMSD73G120@mail-amer.sun.com>; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 09:46:15 +0530 From: Chris Newman In-reply-to: <460A95DC.4C8F@xyzzy.claranet.de> To: Frank Ellermann , ltru@lists.ietf.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline References: <20070327203242.GA12587@sources.org> <460A95DC.4C8F@xyzzy.claranet.de> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:07:08 -0400 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] list of IANA expert review lists (was Re: [Ltru] Re: An official Web site ...) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Frank Ellermann wrote on 3/28/07 18:20 +0200: > It would be also nice to have a list of all IANA expert > review lists established by IETF RFCs, a subset of what's > now the list of "other lists". With that list the IESG, > IANA, and other folks would always know what _should_ be > out there. This is a good suggestion. As incoming Apps AD the list of apps-related IANA review lists is something I just have to learn from my predecessor or co-AD. So collecting that information in one place would smooth the AD transition in addition to being generally useful for the community. Thanks, - Chris _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listilists". With that list the IESG, > IANA, and other folks would always know what _should_ be > out there. Based on that not yet existing list of review > lists the tools server could allow to add "related review > lists" to WG pages, in the case of WG LTRU iana-languages. > > Frank > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Thu Mar 29 12:07:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWx9Z-0001TK-UH; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:07:09 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWm3i-0005re-Or for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:16:22 -0400 Received: from brmea-mail-4.sun.com ([192.18.98.36]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HWm3h-0004Ii-5Z for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:16:22 -0400 Received: from fe-amer-04.sun.com ([192.18.108.178]) by brmea-mail-4.sun.com (8.13.6+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id l2T4GKpf016734 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2007 04:16:20 GMT Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) id <0JFN00601CXHKC00@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Chris.Newman@Sun.COM) for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dhcp-blr03-251-131.india.sun.com ([129.158.251.131]) by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-6.01 (built Apr 3 2006)) with ESMTPSA id <0JFN00FMSD73G120@mail-amer.sun.com>; Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 09:46:15 +0530 From: Chris Newman In-reply-to: <460A95DC.4C8F@xyzzy.claranet.de> To: Frank Ellermann , ltru@lists.ietf.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline References: <20070327203242.GA12587@sources.org> <460A95DC.4C8F@xyzzy.claranet.de> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:07:08 -0400 Cc: tools-discuss@ietf.org Subject: [Tools-discuss] list of IANA expert review lists (was Re: [Ltru] Re: An official Web site ...) X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Frank Ellermann wrote on 3/28/07 18:20 +0200: > It would be also nice to have a list of all IANA expert > review lists established by IETF RFCs, a subset of what's > now the list of "other lists". With that list the IESG, > IANA, and other folks would always know what _should_ be > out there. This is a good suggestion. As incoming Apps AD the list of apps-related IANA review lists is something I just have to learn from my predecessor or co-AD. So collecting that information in one place would smooth the AD transition in addition to being generally useful for the community. Thanks, - Chris _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss nfo/tools-discuss From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Mar 30 01:16:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HX9Si-0002Wx-LU; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 01:15:44 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HX9Sh-0002WE-6y for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 01:15:43 -0400 Received: from smtp7-g19.free.fr ([212.27.42.64]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1HX9Sf-0006jW-Lu for tools-discuss@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 01:15:43 -0400 Received: from asus.online.fr (ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net [82.241.91.24]) by smtp7-g19.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46571558B; Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:15:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:15:40 +0200 To: Henrik Levkowetz , Frank Ellermann From: JFC Morfin Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Re: An official Web site for IETF Languages? In-Reply-To: <460BB334.4040006@ericsson.com> References: <20070327203242.GA12587@sources.org> <6.0.0.20.2.20070328130410.056b4e30__23496.6057622389$1175062255$gmane$org@localhost> <460A95DC.4C8F@xyzzy.claranet.de> <460BB334.4040006@ericsson.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: <20070330051536.A46571558B@smtp7-g19.free.fr> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Cc: ltru@lists.ietf.org, tools-discuss@ietf.org X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Dear Henri, Such a site if utilised by the users after an RFC is published, will de facto act as a "official" source of evolution of the RFC and should be monitored by the WG under the control of its Chair. But WGs are not permanent. Such a site should therefore be closed when the WG is closed. I strongly suggest that such a linking and its terms be approved by the IESG. jfc At 14:38 29/03/2007, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >Hi Frank, Martin, > >On 2007-03-28 18:20 Frank Ellermann said the following: > > Martin Duerst wrote: > > > >> [chair hat on] > >> As already said below, there are no official Web pages for > >> IETF standards/BCPs or IETF WGs. But there is no need for > >> a Web site to be official to be useful. > > > > Hi, I copy that question to the tools list, after all tools > > pages for WGs are only "semi-official". They've links to > > the jabber logs, charter, official drafts, related drafts, > > etc., so maybe it's possible to sneak in a link to related > > pages somewhere, if the Chair(s) support(s) it. > >Sure. I just have to work out a good way of doing it so that >it becomes self-service for the chairs, rather than them >having to ask me to do it -- that makes me a bottleneck. > > > For LTRU that could be Stephane's site, and for DKIM Dave's > > dkim.org. There are more examples. > > > > It would be also nice to have a list of all IANA expert > > review lists established by IETF RFCs, a subset of what's > > now the list of "other lists". With that list the IESG, > > IANA, and other folks would always know what _should_ be > > out there. Based on that not yet existing list of review > > lists the tools server could allow to add "related review > > lists" to WG pages, in the case of WG LTRU iana-languages. > >Right, that seems useful and reasonable. > > > Henrik > >_______________________________________________ >Tools-discuss mailing list >Tools-discuss@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss _______________________________________________ Tools-discuss mailing list Tools-discuss@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss