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Cc: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>, tools-discuss@ietf.org
Subject: [Tools-discuss] Philly code sprint?
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Since Cullen brought up the code sprint - will we do one in Philly?  
(I'd be good to know early for travel planning reasons.)

Lars


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Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: Philly code sprint?
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I'm for having another one. At the next one, I might actually finish  
what I started at the last one :-)

I suspect it will be relatively easy to set up a similar arrangement  
to last time if there are some people that  want to put the time in.


On Jan 2, 2008, at 12:35 AM, Lars Eggert wrote:

> Since Cullen brought up the code sprint - will we do one in Philly?  
> (I'd be good to know early for travel planning reasons.)
>
> Lars


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From: "George Jones" <eludom@gmail.com>
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We're closing down the former opsec mailing list, opsec@ops.ietf.org,
and replacing with

  https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsec

There's a lot of history/useful discussion in the old list.
Is there any way we can have pointer to the old list archvies

  http://ops.ietf.org/lists/opsec/

added to the "About OPSEC" section of the mailing list ?

The status page, opsec status page (tools.ietf.org/wg/opsec)
currently points to the old list.   Should probably point
to the new.

Thanks,
---George Jones


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Hi George,

On 2008-01-08 16:48 George Jones said the following:
> We're closing down the former opsec mailing list, opsec@ops.ietf.org,
> and replacing with
> 
>   https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/opsec
> 
> There's a lot of history/useful discussion in the old list.
> Is there any way we can have pointer to the old list archvies
> 
>   http://ops.ietf.org/lists/opsec/
> 
> added to the "About OPSEC" section of the mailing list ?

The list admins should be able to add this in the Mailman
interface for the new list.

> The status page, opsec status page (tools.ietf.org/wg/opsec)
> currently points to the old list.   Should probably point
> to the new.

This should be updated automatically when the secretariat's
database is updated (which should also result in the charter
page, <http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/opsec-charter.html>
being updated accordingly).

I suggest you ask ietf-action@ietf.org to fix the database.


Best,

	Henrik


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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:19:19 -0600
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] HTML P2PSIP charter corrupted?
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I'm not sure who is generating what these days (especially with the 
secretariat shuffle), but from http://tools.ietf.org/wg/p2psip/ I'm looking 
at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/p2psip-charter.html, which seems to be 
very corrupted (what I'm seeing is an unformatted text blast that is 
obviously from the ID tracker).

Is anyone else able to verify this?

Thanks,

Spencer 




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Hi Spencer,

On 2008-01-09 04:19 Spencer Dawkins said the following:
> I'm not sure who is generating what these days (especially with the 
> secretariat shuffle), but from http://tools.ietf.org/wg/p2psip/ I'm looking 
> at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/p2psip-charter.html, which seems to be 
> very corrupted (what I'm seeing is an unformatted text blast that is 
> obviously from the ID tracker).
> 
> Is anyone else able to verify this?

The pages on www.ietf.org is the secretariat's responsibility, so this
charter page is cared for by them.

A quick check showed me an OK page, but then I did:

  henrik@chardonnay $ host www.ietf.org
  
  www.ietf.org is an alias for ietf.org.
  ietf.org has address 209.173.57.180
  ietf.org has address 209.173.53.180
  ietf.org has IPv6 address 2610:a0:c779:b::d1ad:35b4
  ietf.org mail is handled by 10 chiedprmail1.ietf.org.
  ietf.org mail is handled by 10 stiedprmail1.ietf.org.

and used the two IP addresses directly in the browser, and saw:

The page at http://209.173.57.180/html.charters/p2psip-charter.html is broken,
while the page at http://209.173.53.180/html.charters/p2psip-charter.html is
OK.

This could be a transition problem; I'm Bcc:ing ietf-action and Cc:ing
Ray on this.


	Henrik


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I cancelled this, as it appears to be submission tool spam (see  
attached diff from 01). Tools team, if you aren't aware already, it  
looks like somebody is up to no good with the submission tool...



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<body > 
  <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> 
  <tr bgcolor="orange"><th></th><th>&nbsp;draft-gregorio-uritemplate-01.txt&nbsp;</th><th> </th><th>&nbsp;draft-kuldeep-uritemplate-00.txt&nbsp;</th><th></th></tr> 
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Network Working Group                                   J. Gregorio, Ed.</td><td> </td><td class="right">Network Working Group                                   J. Gregorio, Ed.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Internet-Draft</td><td> </td><td class="right">Internet-Draft</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Intended status: Standards Track                          M. Hadley, Ed.</td><td> </td><td class="right">Intended status: Standards Track                          M. Hadley, Ed.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0001" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">Expires: J<span class="delete">anuary 10</span>, 2008                               Sun Microsystems</td><td> </td><td class="rblock">Expires: J<span class="insert">une 8</span>, 2008                               Sun Microsystems</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">                                                      M. Nottingham, Ed.</td><td> </td><td class="right">                                                      M. Nottingham, Ed.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">                                                              D. Orchard</td><td> </td><td class="right">                                                              D. Orchard</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">                                                       BEA Systems, Inc.</td><td> </td><td class="right">                                                       BEA Systems, Inc.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0002" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">                                                            J<span class="delete">uly 9, 2007</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">                                                            J<span class="insert">an 9, 2008</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">                              URI Template</td><td> </td><td class="right">                              URI Template</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td><a name="diff0003" /></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="lblock">                     draft-<span class="delete">gregorio-uritemplate-01</span></td><td> </td><td class="rblock">                     draft-<span class="insert">kuldeep-uritemplate-00</span></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">Status of this Memo</td><td> </td><td class="right">Status of this Memo</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any</td><td> </td><td class="right">   By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware</td><td> </td><td class="right">   applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes</td><td> </td><td class="right">   have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79.</td><td> </td><td class="right">   aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79.</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>
      <tr><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td><td class="left">   Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.  Note that</td><td> </td><td class="right">   Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.  Note that</td><td class="lineno" valign="top"></td></tr>

     <tr><td></td><td class="left"></td><td> </td><td class="right"></td><td></td></tr>
     <tr bgcolor="gray"><th colspan="5" align="center"><a name="end">&nbsp;End of changes. 3 change blocks.&nbsp;</a></th></tr>
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On 11/01/2008, at 8:52 PM, IETF I-D Submission Tool wrote:

> Manual Posting Requested for following Internet-Draft:
>
> I-D Submission Tool URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/idst/status.cgi?submission_id=4191
>
>
> Filename:	   draft-kuldeep-uritemplate
> Version:	   00
> Staging URL:	   http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/staging/draft-kuldeep-uritemplate-00.txt
> Title:		   URI Template
> Creation_date:	   2008-01-09
> WG ID:		   Indvidual Submission
> Number_of_pages: 9
> Abstract:
> URI Templates are strings that can be transformed into URIs after
> embedded variables are substituted.  This document defines the syntax
> and processing of URI Templates.Editorial Note
>
> To provide feedback on this Internet-Draft, join the W3C URI mailing
> list (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/uri/) [1].
>
> Submitter: Joe Gregorio (joeg@bitworking.org)
> Submitter is not found in the Authors list
>
> Author(s):
> Joe Gregorio, joe@bitworking.org
> Marc Hadley, Marc.Hadley@sun.com
> Mark Nottingham, mnot@pobox.com
> David Orchard, dorchard@bea.com
>
>
>



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On 2008-01-12 01:46, Mark Nottingham wrote:
> I cancelled this, as it appears to be submission tool spam (see attached
> diff from 01). Tools team, if you aren't aware already, it looks like
> somebody is up to no good with the submission tool...

That's why we specified the need for a confirmation handshake.
It's not foolproof, but it should catch people who are just fiddling
around.

You'd be amazed (well, perhaps not) by some of the bogus IPR disclosures
and mailing list creation requests that show up via the tools.

    Brian


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Hi, something isn't as it should be, it could be on my side:

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-rfc2026-changes-02
I end up on an empty page.  Before that I tried...
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-rfc2026-changes-02.txt
...and got an error (once), now I'm redirected to the ...-02,
still an empty page :-)
=20
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-rfc2026-changes
This goes to -02 and you guess it, an empty page.  Using the
known "tools server tricks" I think that www3.tools needs a
kick or reboot, www1.tools and www2.tools give me what I want.

Another point, how tricky would it be if I-D "announcements"
include the link to the tools server version ?  IIRC I looked
in either -00 or -01 of this I-D, and because I'm lazy I hope
that the diff is all I need to stay up to date.

 Frank



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Subject: [Tools-discuss] IETF CSE (was: Call for Comment: RFC 4693
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Jari Arkko wrote:
=20
> =
http://www.google.com/custom?hl=3Den&client=3Dgoogle-coop-np&cof=3DAH%3Al=
eft%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2F%3BCX%3AIETF%2520%2526%2520IRTF%252=
0Mailing%2520List%2520Search%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fietf.org%2Fimages%2Fietfl=
ogo2f.gif%3BLH%3A100%3BLP%3A1%3BGFNT%3A%23666666%3BDIV%3A%23cccccc%3B&adk=
w=3DAELymgVmPhm6xOxqVYYkLfBhjlELCLKCNQ0MPgwdQ0YYMMlbPd1rUYSeqxsu4ZwC8EzV_=
JAjgaE_RNl1WM42lnF9xaa_CbZjt_ghkmydtVLy5Mxr_9Vrdq19SPdf3Gl5Pe3QiF1xGEsu&q=
=3Dion-ad-sponsoring&btnG=3DSearch&cx=3D006728497408158459967%3Aybxjdw-bj=
jw

Wow, these CSE URLs can get rather weird.  You can trim it radically:

http://www.google.com/?cx=3D006728497408158459967%3Aybxjdw-bjjw&q=3Dion-a=
d-sponsoring

The refinements are nice, is that your CSE ?  They now support to
limit the refinements to four (one line) automagically picking the
four most relevant refinements depending on the query.  I've not
yet tested it.

Users of a CSE with a browser not supporting opensearch can use a
"Google gadget" to add it to their iGoogle page, or to "syndicate"
it elsewhere (e.g. in a blog, but it needs Javascript):

http://gmodules.com/ig/creator?synd=3Dopen&url=3Dhttp://hmdmhdfmhdjmzdtjm=
zdtzktdkztdjz.googlepages.com/tiny_cse.xml

> Personally, I think we should keep the concept.

Yes, I looked for the "subpoena ION" some days ago, and found it,
<http://purl.net/xyzzy/-a9/subpoena> (another way to trim URLs :-)

 Frank



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Subject: RE: [Tools-discuss] www3.tools oddity
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:28:00 +0200
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www3 (aka merlot) has run out of disk space, and Henrik
is on vacation with limited email access. (This also
explains why Daily Dose hasn't been updated in couple
of days.)

He should be back in office on Monday, so this should=20
get fixed soon...

Best regards,
Pasi=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ext Frank Ellermann [mailto:nobody@xyzzy.claranet.de]=20
> Sent: 18 January, 2008 11:34
> To: tools-discuss@ietf.org
> Subject: [Tools-discuss] www3.tools oddity
>=20
> Hi, something isn't as it should be, it could be on my side:
>=20
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-rfc2026-changes-02
> I end up on an empty page.  Before that I tried...
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-rfc2026-changes-02.txt
> ...and got an error (once), now I'm redirected to the ...-02,
> still an empty page :-)
> =20
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-rfc2026-changes
> This goes to -02 and you guess it, an empty page.  Using the
> known "tools server tricks" I think that www3.tools needs a
> kick or reboot, www1.tools and www2.tools give me what I want.
>=20
> Another point, how tricky would it be if I-D "announcements"
> include the link to the tools server version ?  IIRC I looked
> in either -00 or -01 of this I-D, and because I'm lazy I hope
> that the diff is all I need to stay up to date.
>=20
>  Frank
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>=20


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Pasi is right, and I actually got it fixed just about the time
his email was written.  Sorry for the bother!  And thanks to
Bill Fenner who assisted when I didn't have shell access myself.


	Henrik

On 2008-01-18 17:28 Pasi.Eronen@nokia.com said the following:
> www3 (aka merlot) has run out of disk space, and Henrik
> is on vacation with limited email access. (This also
> explains why Daily Dose hasn't been updated in couple
> of days.)
> 
> He should be back in office on Monday, so this should 
> get fixed soon...
> 
> Best regards,
> Pasi 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ext Frank Ellermann [mailto:nobody@xyzzy.claranet.de] 
>> Sent: 18 January, 2008 11:34
>> To: tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> Subject: [Tools-discuss] www3.tools oddity
>>
>> Hi, something isn't as it should be, it could be on my side:
>>
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-rfc2026-changes-02
>> I end up on an empty page.  Before that I tried...
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-rfc2026-changes-02.txt
>> ...and got an error (once), now I'm redirected to the ...-02,
>> still an empty page :-)
>>  
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-rfc2026-changes
>> This goes to -02 and you guess it, an empty page.  Using the
>> known "tools server tricks" I think that www3.tools needs a
>> kick or reboot, www1.tools and www2.tools give me what I want.
>>
>> Another point, how tricky would it be if I-D "announcements"
>> include the link to the tools server version ?  IIRC I looked
>> in either -00 or -01 of this I-D, and because I'm lazy I hope
>> that the diff is all I need to stay up to date.
>>
>>  Frank
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
> 


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Henrik Levkowetz wrote on the general list:
=20
> Submitting 'sieve' in the document search form on
> http://tools.ietf.org/html returns 3028 as the first result

Oops, this is also a CSE, I wasn't aware of this.

It's simple to create an A9 opensearch description
for a CSE using its CX number, it's also simple to
configure a "Google gadget" with a given CX number
(for browsers not supporting opensearch, but still
supporting <iframe> etc. for this "googlet" magic).

And it's simple to create redirections (tiny URLs)
for any CSE, e.g. http://purl.net/xyzzy/-a9/sieve
is similar to what your CSE finds (RFC 3028 is the
second result, the WG page is the first).

I've not yet figured out how to "boost" IETF tools
HTML results over say rfc-editor text results.  Do
you have a "professional" CSE ?  Unlike free CSEs
they can offer their search results as feeds, with
more features.

Is the source of your CSE published anywhere ?  It
would be interesting to see how the refinements in
your CSE work - another feature I haven't figured
out yet.

My opensearch + "googlet" sources are published on
http://hmdmhdfmhdjmzdtjmzdtzktdkztdjz.googlepages.com/index.html
For copies of the CSE context and annotations see
http://hmdmhdfmhdjmzdtjmzdtzktdkztdjz.googlepages.com/xyzzy.ctx.xml
http://hmdmhdfmhdjmzdtjmzdtzktdkztdjz.googlepages.com/xyzzy.ann.xml

 Frank



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From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 22 15:31:39 2008
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Greetings again. This morning, a new Internet Draft was posted that 
had a full URL (scheme included) in its title. This is clearly bad 
because these get posted to the Internet Drafts archive. This could 
lead to a cross-site scripting attack on the IETF web site.

Proposal: the draft submission tool should remove the scheme from any 
URL it sees in any field that might get posted to an official IETF 
mailing list. This means scrubbing the title, author, filename, 
pages, date, and abstract. (Yes, we should not assume that someone 
won't be tricky and, after posting a draft, change what is sent back 
to have a link around the page count that could be used as an attack 
vector.)

--Paul Hoffman, Director
--VPN Consortium


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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] The Internet Draft posting tool should not allow
	URLs in any fields
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:16:15 -0800
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On Jan 22, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:

> Greetings again. This morning, a new Internet Draft was posted that  
> had a full URL (scheme included) in its title. This is clearly bad  
> because these get posted to the Internet Drafts archive. This could  
> lead to a cross-site scripting attack on the IETF web site.

No, it can't.  A URL is just plain text.  In any case, the IETF website
has no privacy-sensitive services that would be vulnerable to cookie
authentication being stolen via XSS on broken browsers.

> Proposal: the draft submission tool should remove the scheme from  
> any URL it sees in any field that might get posted to an official  
> IETF mailing list. This means scrubbing the title, author,  
> filename, pages, date, and abstract. (Yes, we should not assume  
> that someone won't be tricky and, after posting a draft, change  
> what is sent back to have a link around the page count that could  
> be used as an attack vector.)

What the tool should remove is angle brackets and anything that
looks like UTF-7 encoding.  Regular text that is only used in
text fields is no danger whatsoever.

....Roy



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From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 22 16:27:24 2008
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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:25:47 -0800
To: "Roy T. Fielding" <fielding@gbiv.com>
From: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
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	allow URLs in any fields
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At 1:16 PM -0800 1/22/08, Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>On Jan 22, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:
>
>>Greetings again. This morning, a new Internet Draft was posted that 
>>had a full URL (scheme included) in its title. This is clearly bad 
>>because these get posted to the Internet Drafts archive. This could 
>>lead to a cross-site scripting attack on the IETF web site.
>
>No, it can't.  A URL is just plain text.

True, but it was presented in the archive as a live link. See 
<http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i-d-announce/current/msg18520.html>. 
It was also

>In any case, the IETF website
>has no privacy-sensitive services that would be vulnerable to cookie
>authentication being stolen via XSS on broken browsers.

...yet. Assuming that we will never have such services seems 
optimistic, or short-sighted, or both.

>>Proposal: the draft submission tool should remove the scheme from 
>>any URL it sees in any field that might get posted to an official 
>>IETF mailing list. This means scrubbing the title, author, 
>>filename, pages, date, and abstract. (Yes, we should not assume 
>>that someone won't be tricky and, after posting a draft, change 
>>what is sent back to have a link around the page count that could 
>>be used as an attack vector.)
>
>What the tool should remove is angle brackets and anything that
>looks like UTF-7 encoding.

That would be good as well.

>Regular text that is only used in
>text fields is no danger whatsoever.

...unless one of the other tools, like the list archiver, turns 
things that look like URLs into URLs. Which our mail archiver does.

--Paul Hoffman, Director
--VPN Consortium


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From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 22 18:07:26 2008
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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] The Internet Draft posting tool should not allow
	URLs in any fields
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:07:29 -0800
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On Jan 22, 2008, at 1:25 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:

> At 1:16 PM -0800 1/22/08, Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>> On Jan 22, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings again. This morning, a new Internet Draft was posted  
>>> that had a full URL (scheme included) in its title. This is  
>>> clearly bad because these get posted to the Internet Drafts  
>>> archive. This could lead to a cross-site scripting attack on the  
>>> IETF web site.
>>
>> No, it can't.  A URL is just plain text.
>
> True, but it was presented in the archive as a live link. See  
> <http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/i-d-announce/current/ 
> msg18520.html>.

An anchor href is not a source of XSS.

> It was also
>
>> In any case, the IETF website
>> has no privacy-sensitive services that would be vulnerable to cookie
>> authentication being stolen via XSS on broken browsers.
>
> ...yet. Assuming that we will never have such services seems  
> optimistic, or short-sighted, or both.

XSS attacks are the purest form of bullshit security on the net -- they
make servers run around and "fix" what would otherwise be normal data
display based on the theory that some broken browser and some insecure
security mechanism can be used in combination to fool a user into
revealing sensitive information across sites.  The vast majority of
such reports are just nonsense.  If you can't show a specific
attack vector that works by inserting text into the Title, then
asking the tools group to change the titles is a BAD IDEA.

>>> Proposal: the draft submission tool should remove the scheme from  
>>> any URL it sees in any field that might get posted to an official  
>>> IETF mailing list. This means scrubbing the title, author,  
>>> filename, pages, date, and abstract. (Yes, we should not assume  
>>> that someone won't be tricky and, after posting a draft, change  
>>> what is sent back to have a link around the page count that could  
>>> be used as an attack vector.)
>>
>> What the tool should remove is angle brackets and anything that
>> looks like UTF-7 encoding.
>
> That would be good as well.
>
>> Regular text that is only used in
>> text fields is no danger whatsoever.
>
> ...unless one of the other tools, like the list archiver, turns  
> things that look like URLs into URLs. Which our mail archiver does.

Then fix the mail archiver, if it needs to be fixed.  What specific
attacks are enabled by adding an anchor to a URI reference?  Using
the text in other attributes would, but not in anchor href.

....Roy



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Subject: [Tools-discuss] IRTF wiki error -- disk full?
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When entering new ticket comment:

> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/trac/web/main.py", line  
> 406, in dispatch_request
>     dispatcher.dispatch(req)
>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/trac/web/main.py", line  
> 237, in dispatch
>     resp = chosen_handler.process_request(req)
>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/trac/ticket/web_ui.py",  
> line 290, in process_request
>     self._do_save(req, db, ticket)
>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/trac/ticket/web_ui.py",  
> line 557, in _do_save
>     cnum=internal_cnum):
>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/trac/ticket/model.py",  
> line 240, in save_changes
>     (self[name], self.id))
>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/trac/db/util.py", line 50,  
> in execute
>     return self.cursor.execute(sql_escape_percent(sql), args)
>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/trac/db/ 
> sqlite_backend.py", line 56, in execute
>     args or [])
>   File "/var/lib/python-support/python2.4/trac/db/ 
> sqlite_backend.py", line 48, in _rollback_on_error
>     return function(self, *args, **kwargs)
> OperationalError: database or disk is full

cheers,

--aaron


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Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:24:39 -0800
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At 3:07 PM -0800 1/22/08, Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>XSS attacks are the purest form of bullshit security on the net -- they
>make servers run around and "fix" what would otherwise be normal data
>display based on the theory that some broken browser and some insecure
>security mechanism can be used in combination to fool a user into
>revealing sensitive information across sites.  The vast majority of
>such reports are just nonsense.  If you can't show a specific
>attack vector that works by inserting text into the Title, then
>asking the tools group to change the titles is a BAD IDEA.

OK, so if folks on these two lists agree with Roy about this, feel 
free to ignore my initial request.

--Paul Hoffman, Director
--VPN Consortium


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From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 25 04:40:54 2008
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] IPR information in 1id-index.txt
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Hi, secretariat (BCC'ed),

the 1id-index.txt database seems to have been updated recently to  
include full author information (great!) as well as an indication  
whether an IPR statement has been filed for a draft (also a good  
idea). Example:

    "Profile for Datagram Congestion Control Protocol (DCCP)  
Congestion ID 4:
    TCP-Friendly Rate Control for Small Packets (TFRC-SP)", Sally  
Floyd, Eddie
    Kohler, Intellectual Property, 18-Nov-07, <draft-ietf-dccp- 
ccid4-01.txt,.ps>

However, the IPR information is not accurate. At least for the example  
above, I was unaware that an IPR statement had been filed, and  
searching through the IPR disclosures also comes up empty. The same  
seems to be true for some other TSV area drafts I checked. You  
probably want to check if there's a bug in the scripts that extract  
this information fromt he IPR disclosure database.

Lars

PS: The format in which 1id-index.txt was modified also causes xml2rfc  
to add "I. Property" as an author to all drafts that are flagged as  
having Intellectual Property, which needs to be fixed. You probably  
want to work with the tools team in order to come up with a way of  
flagging an IPR disclosure in a way that doesn't have that side effect:

   [I-D.ietf-dccp-ccid4]
              Floyd, S., Kohler, E., and I. Property, "Profile for
              Datagram Congestion Control Protocol (DCCP) Congestion ID
              4:  TCP-Friendly Rate Control for Small Packets
              (TFRC-SP)", draft-ietf-dccp-ccid4-01 (work in progress),
              November 2007.


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From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 25 07:20:38 2008
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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:20:33 +0100
From: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik.levkowetz@ericsson.com>
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Hi,

Adding Michael and AMS' Glen and James as Cc:

Comments at the end.

On 2008-01-25 10:40 Lars Eggert said the following:
> Hi, secretariat (BCC'ed),
> 
> the 1id-index.txt database seems to have been updated recently to  
> include full author information (great!) as well as an indication  
> whether an IPR statement has been filed for a draft (also a good  
> idea). Example:
> 
>     "Profile for Datagram Congestion Control Protocol (DCCP) Congestion ID 4:
>     TCP-Friendly Rate Control for Small Packets (TFRC-SP)", Sally Floyd, Eddie
>     Kohler, Intellectual Property, 18-Nov-07, <draft-ietf-dccp-ccid4-01.txt,.ps>
> 
> However, the IPR information is not accurate. At least for the example  
> above, I was unaware that an IPR statement had been filed, and  
> searching through the IPR disclosures also comes up empty. The same  
> seems to be true for some other TSV area drafts I checked. You  
> probably want to check if there's a bug in the scripts that extract  
> this information fromt he IPR disclosure database.
> 
> Lars
> 
> PS: The format in which 1id-index.txt was modified also causes xml2rfc  
> to add "I. Property" as an author to all drafts that are flagged as  
> having Intellectual Property, which needs to be fixed. You probably  
> want to work with the tools team in order to come up with a way of  
> flagging an IPR disclosure in a way that doesn't have that side effect:
> 
>    [I-D.ietf-dccp-ccid4]
>               Floyd, S., Kohler, E., and I. Property, "Profile for
>               Datagram Congestion Control Protocol (DCCP) Congestion ID
>               4:  TCP-Friendly Rate Control for Small Packets
>               (TFRC-SP)", draft-ietf-dccp-ccid4-01 (work in progress),
>               November 2007.

And while all unilateral changes to the format of files which may be
parsed by other tools is a rather bad idea -- please coordinate with
know tool authors first, and announce changes before implementing them --
in this case the format used makes it virtually impossible to determine
from the format alone whether "I. Property" is an author or something
else.

If this is an accident/program bug, we need to find and fix it -- if
this is an intentional change, then please revert the part causing the
"Intellectual Property" indication until we can agree on a format which
can be parsed by the tools which extract information from this file...


	Henrik


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Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
> ...
> And while all unilateral changes to the format of files which may be
> parsed by other tools is a rather bad idea -- please coordinate with
> know tool authors first, and announce changes before implementing them --
> in this case the format used makes it virtually impossible to determine
> from the format alone whether "I. Property" is an author or something
> else.
> 
> If this is an accident/program bug, we need to find and fix it -- if
> this is an intentional change, then please revert the part causing the
> "Intellectual Property" indication until we can agree on a format which
> can be parsed by the tools which extract information from this file...
> ...

+1.

+2 on making all this information available in XML in the first place, 
though.

BR, Julian


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Henrik Levkowetz wrote:

> If this is an accident/program bug, we need to find and fix it -- if
> this is an intentional change, then please revert the part causing
> the "Intellectual Property" indication until we can agree on a
> format which can be parsed by the tools which extract information
> from this file...

As an author of tools that parse 1id-index.txt (including
the Daily Dose of IETF), I'd like to second Julian's suggestion
to have draft information available in easily machine-parsable
format (such as XML or tab-separated).

This file should, at the very least, combine the information in
1id-abstract.txt (latest version, title, authors, date, abstract)=20
and all_id.txt (latest version, date, I-D tracker state). Including=20
additional fields, such as "responsible AD", would be nice.

Best regards,
Pasi


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Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: [xml2rfc] Mr I. Property is authoring a lot of
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On 2008-1-25, at 19:23, ext Marshall Rose wrote:
>> the format of 1id-index.txt seems to have changed. It now indicates  
>> whether an IPR disclosure has been filed for a draft, e.g.,
>>
>>  "Profile for Datagram Congestion Control Protocol (DCCP)  
>> Congestion ID 4:
>>  TCP-Friendly Rate Control for Small Packets (TFRC-SP)", Sally  
>> Floyd, Eddie
>>  Kohler, Intellectual Property, 18-Nov-07, <draft-ietf-dccp- 
>> ccid4-01.txt,.ps>
> ...
>> I'd be good to fix this before the IETF submission deadline comes.
>
> thanks for catching this. the scripts have been updated to ignore  
> this. it should take about 24 hours before the files themselves are  
> corrected.

Thanks for fixing this!

However, note that there are other issues that still exist with 1id- 
index.txt. For example:

   "TCP Friendly Rate Control (TFRC): Protocol Specification",  
University
   London, Sally Floyd, Jitendra Padhye, Joerg Widmer, Intellectual  
Property,
   25-Jan-08, <draft-ietf-dccp-rfc3448bis-04.txt,.pdf>

I don't know why it says "University London" as an author, instead of  
"Mark Handley" (or why the "College" is missing.)

Something's still fishy with the scripts.

Lars


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Henrik Levkowetz wrote:

> If this is an accident/program bug, we need to find and fix it -- if
> this is an intentional change, then please revert the part causing
> the "Intellectual Property" indication until we can agree on a
> format which can be parsed by the tools which extract information
> from this file...

As an author of tools that parse 1id-index.txt (including
the Daily Dose of IETF), I'd like to second Julian's suggestion
to have draft information available in easily machine-parsable
format (such as XML or tab-separated).

This file should, at the very least, combine the information in
1id-abstract.txt (latest version, title, authors, date, abstract)=20
and all_id.txt (latest version, date, I-D tracker state). Including=20
additional fields, such as "responsible AD", would be nice.

Best regards,
Pasi




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> However, note that there are other issues that still exist with 1id- 
> index.txt. For example:
>
>   "TCP Friendly Rate Control (TFRC): Protocol Specification",  
> University
>   London, Sally Floyd, Jitendra Padhye, Joerg Widmer, Intellectual  
> Property,
>   25-Jan-08, <draft-ietf-dccp-rfc3448bis-04.txt,.pdf>
>
> I don't know why it says "University London" as an author, instead  
> of "Mark Handley" (or why the "College" is missing.)
>
> Something's still fishy with the scripts.

sorry, it's not the scripts, it's the 1id-abstracts.txt file that the  
secretariat is putting out. the scripts parse the file based on the  
same rules that have been in place for the last N years.

last week, i added a thing to deal with the "Intellectual Property".

if someone has a thing of lists that we should ignore like  
"University London", i guess i can add those.

however, perhaps the secretariat might want to review their  
procedures for producing this file, and understanding why it's gone  
sideways...

/mtr



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On 2008-1-28, at 19:31, ext Marshall Rose wrote:
>> However, note that there are other issues that still exist with 1id- 
>> index.txt. For example:
>>
>>  "TCP Friendly Rate Control (TFRC): Protocol Specification",  
>> University
>>  London, Sally Floyd, Jitendra Padhye, Joerg Widmer, Intellectual  
>> Property,
>>  25-Jan-08, <draft-ietf-dccp-rfc3448bis-04.txt,.pdf>
>>
>> I don't know why it says "University London" as an author, instead  
>> of "Mark Handley" (or why the "College" is missing.)
>>
>> Something's still fishy with the scripts.
>
> sorry, it's not the scripts, it's the 1id-abstracts.txt file that  
> the secretariat is putting out.

Sorry for being imprecise - I meant the scripts that generate 1id- 
abstracts.txt on the secretariat side. I only CC'ed the xml2rfc list  
for information.

Lars


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> Sorry for being imprecise - I meant the scripts that generate 1id- 
> abstracts.txt on the secretariat side. I only CC'ed the xml2rfc  
> list for information.

oops!

my bad.

/mtr



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Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] IPR information in 1id-index.txt
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Hi,

Adding Michael and AMS' Glen and James as Cc:

Comments at the end.

On 2008-01-25 10:40 Lars Eggert said the following:
> Hi, secretariat (BCC'ed),
> 
> the 1id-index.txt database seems to have been updated recently to  
> include full author information (great!) as well as an indication  
> whether an IPR statement has been filed for a draft (also a good  
> idea). Example:
> 
>     "Profile for Datagram Congestion Control Protocol (DCCP) Congestion ID 4:
>     TCP-Friendly Rate Control for Small Packets (TFRC-SP)", Sally Floyd, Eddie
>     Kohler, Intellectual Property, 18-Nov-07, <draft-ietf-dccp-ccid4-01.txt,.ps>
> 
> However, the IPR information is not accurate. At least for the example  
> above, I was unaware that an IPR statement had been filed, and  
> searching through the IPR disclosures also comes up empty. The same  
> seems to be true for some other TSV area drafts I checked. You  
> probably want to check if there's a bug in the scripts that extract  
> this information fromt he IPR disclosure database.
> 
> Lars
> 
> PS: The format in which 1id-index.txt was modified also causes xml2rfc  
> to add "I. Property" as an author to all drafts that are flagged as  
> having Intellectual Property, which needs to be fixed. You probably  
> want to work with the tools team in order to come up with a way of  
> flagging an IPR disclosure in a way that doesn't have that side effect:
> 
>    [I-D.ietf-dccp-ccid4]
>               Floyd, S., Kohler, E., and I. Property, "Profile for
>               Datagram Congestion Control Protocol (DCCP) Congestion ID
>               4:  TCP-Friendly Rate Control for Small Packets
>               (TFRC-SP)", draft-ietf-dccp-ccid4-01 (work in progress),
>               November 2007.

And while all unilateral changes to the format of files which may be
parsed by other tools is a rather bad idea -- please coordinate with
know tool authors first, and announce changes before implementing them --
in this case the format used makes it virtually impossible to determine
from the format alone whether "I. Property" is an author or something
else.

If this is an accident/program bug, we need to find and fix it -- if
this is an intentional change, then please revert the part causing the
"Intellectual Property" indication until we can agree on a format which
can be parsed by the tools which extract information from this file...


	Henrik




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Count me in, if there is one.

Jari

Cullen Jennings kirjoitti:
>
> I'm for having another one. At the next one, I might actually finish
> what I started at the last one :-)
>
> I suspect it will be relatively easy to set up a similar arrangement
> to last time if there are some people that want to put the time in.
>
>
> On Jan 2, 2008, at 12:35 AM, Lars Eggert wrote:
>
>> Since Cullen brought up the code sprint - will we do one in Philly?
>> (I'd be good to know early for travel planning reasons.)
>>
>> Lars
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
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>



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From tools-discuss-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 29 13:58:38 2008
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] process overview for documents
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Hi,

I created some tools to analyze and visualize the process related to the
development of every RFC. From draft-smith-00 to RFC.

Here's an example:

 
http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/draft-ietf-mobike-protocol-timing.html

The grey area is the time spent in individual draft phase, blue WG time,
yellow IESG, and pink RFC Editor. All drafts that have this chart are
available from

  http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/drafts.html

This is work in progress and there are a number of limitations, such as
lack of metadata information, lack of replaced-by information, and even
some document revisions for older drafts are missing. But if people are
interested in looking at their own WG's documents and where the time
went it is now possible. Further work includes trying to get rid of some
of the limitations, and using this information to gather some statistics
of the entire IETF process and how it changes from year to year.

Jari



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Neat tool!

	Tony Hansen
	tony@att.com

Jari Arkko wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I created some tools to analyze and visualize the process related to the
> development of every RFC. From draft-smith-00 to RFC.
> 
> Here's an example:
> 
>  
> http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/draft-ietf-mobike-protocol-timing.html
> 
> The grey area is the time spent in individual draft phase, blue WG time,
> yellow IESG, and pink RFC Editor. All drafts that have this chart are
> available from
> 
>   http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/drafts.html
> 
> This is work in progress and there are a number of limitations, such as
> lack of metadata information, lack of replaced-by information, and even
> some document revisions for older drafts are missing. But if people are
> interested in looking at their own WG's documents and where the time
> went it is now possible. Further work includes trying to get rid of some
> of the limitations, and using this information to gather some statistics
> of the entire IETF process and how it changes from year to year.
> 
> Jari
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss


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From: Cullen Jennings <fluffy@cisco.com>
To: Tools Discuss <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
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Impp: xmpp:cullenfluffyjennings@jabber.org
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Re: Philly code sprint?
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Let's just decide that we are having one on Saturday - something like  
9am to 9pm. We can ask Russ and Ray if we can make same arrangements  
as last time and if not, we can make alternative arrangements for a  
locations.


On Jan 29, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Jari Arkko wrote:

> Count me in, if there is one.
>
> Jari
>
> Cullen Jennings kirjoitti:
>>
>> I'm for having another one. At the next one, I might actually finish
>> what I started at the last one :-)
>>
>> I suspect it will be relatively easy to set up a similar arrangement
>> to last time if there are some people that want to put the time in.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2008, at 12:35 AM, Lars Eggert wrote:
>>
>>> Since Cullen brought up the code sprint - will we do one in Philly?
>>> (I'd be good to know early for travel planning reasons.)
>>>
>>> Lars
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>
>>
>



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On 2008-01-30 03:11 Cullen Jennings said the following:
> Let's just decide that we are having one on Saturday - something like  =

> 9am to 9pm. We can ask Russ and Ray if we can make same arrangements =20
> as last time and if not, we can make alternative arrangements for a =20
> locations.

Sounds good to me.

	Henrik

> On Jan 29, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Jari Arkko wrote:
>=20
>> Count me in, if there is one.
>>
>> Jari
>>
>> Cullen Jennings kirjoitti:
>>> I'm for having another one. At the next one, I might actually finish
>>> what I started at the last one :-)
>>>
>>> I suspect it will be relatively easy to set up a similar arrangement
>>> to last time if there are some people that want to put the time in.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2008, at 12:35 AM, Lars Eggert wrote:
>>>
>>>> Since Cullen brought up the code sprint - will we do one in Philly?
>>>> (I'd be good to know early for travel planning reasons.)
>>>>
>>>> Lars
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tools-discuss mailing list
>>> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>>>
>>>
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> Tools-discuss@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>=20


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On 2008-1-29, at 20:58, ext Jari Arkko wrote:
> I created some tools to analyze and visualize the process related to  
> the
> development of every RFC. From draft-smith-00 to RFC.
>
> Here's an example:
> http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/draft-ietf-mobike-protocol-timing.html

Neat!

Once this is considered stable enough, can the plot be included on the  
normal tools page of a draft (http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mobike/draft-ietf-mobike-protocol/ 
  in this example), with a link to your details page?

Lars


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> Once this is considered stable enough, can the plot be included on the
> normal tools page of a draft
> (http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mobike/draft-ietf-mobike-protocol/ in this
> example), with a link to your details page?
Henrik is working on a new style for the tools draft pages, and I think
that includes some sort of timeline visualization, though for slightly
different purposes (clicking on versions and diffs). Perhaps he could
add a pointer to the full timeline in that, too.

By the way, a related topic is that I've been thinking of creating pages
for each person where it would be easy to navigate between your own
drafts. Authorstats maintains already pages like
http://www.arkko.com/tools/allstats/larseggert.html and you can get to
the tools page by clicking on your drafts. However, you cannot get to
the new process timeline pages, and you cannot get back from either the
tools or the timeline pages to the author. Any ideas on how to do this?

Jari



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On 2008-01-30 16:44 Jari Arkko said the following:
>> Once this is considered stable enough, can the plot be included on the=

>> normal tools page of a draft
>> (http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mobike/draft-ietf-mobike-protocol/ in this
>> example), with a link to your details page?
> Henrik is working on a new style for the tools draft pages, and I think=

> that includes some sort of timeline visualization, though for slightly
> different purposes (clicking on versions and diffs). Perhaps he could
> add a pointer to the full timeline in that, too.

Yes, that's the plan.

	Henrik

> By the way, a related topic is that I've been thinking of creating page=
s
> for each person where it would be easy to navigate between your own
> drafts. Authorstats maintains already pages like
> http://www.arkko.com/tools/allstats/larseggert.html and you can get to
> the tools page by clicking on your drafts. However, you cannot get to
> the new process timeline pages, and you cannot get back from either the=

> tools or the timeline pages to the author. Any ideas on how to do this?=

>=20
> Jari



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