Subject: [Tools-discuss] bibliographical references

From: Jamal Hadi Salim <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 14:21:40 -0400

Hi there,

I am not sure who to talk to - but this looked like a tools issue perhaps;
if you are the wrong email address i would appreciate your guidance on who to
talk to.
My name is consistently being mispelt over the last many years in many
references; for example:
http://xml.resource.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-ietf-forces-sctptml-02.xml
shows:
<author initials="J" surname="Salim" fullname="Jamal Hadi  Salim">

In the draft xml submission - this was entered as:
<author fullname="Jamal Hadi Salim" initials="J." surname="Hadi Salim">

As you can see some tool which creates the references has a bug which
picks only one name in my surname.

This issue currently exists in at least 3 IETF drafts.

cheers,
jamal

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:05:39 +0200

Hi Jamal,

> This issue currently exists in at least 3 IETF drafts.

The source of the trouble seems to be that although your name is entered
correctly in the IETF database (I checked) the bibxml files are created by
processing the author information after it has been exported in text format.

This is unfortunate, and I don't know if the creator and maintainers of
xml2rfc has a solution to this -- they may well have that, I just don't
know.

I'm cc:ing Marshall Rose who will know.

Regards,

	Henrik

---

From: Adam Roach <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 15:21:36 -0500

The xml2rfc tool seems to aggressively trim names on certain kinds of
boundaries, and discard information that the author clearly intended to be
part of his name. For example, whenever I get a new copy of xml2rfc, I
comment out the following lines:

        if {[string compare $av(initials) ""]} {
            set av(initials) [lindex [split $av(initials) .] 0].
        }

This allows me to generate documents with my preferred designation of "A.B.
Roach," instead of having to fix them up in AUTH48. (FWIW, I don't care for
the interaction between having a first initial that is an article and a last
name that is a noun without the ability to insert an intervening letter).

It would be kind of nice if the tool stopped thinking that it knows how to
represent our names better than we do.

/a

On 6/1/09 3:05 PM, "Henrik Levkowetz" <[email-masked]> wrote:

> _______________________________________________
> Tools-discuss mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss

---

From: Richard Barnes <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:25:22 -0400

> (FWIW, I don't care for

Having trouble parsing this sentence.  Are you looking to allow names
like "The X Files"?
--Richard

---

From: "Bill Ver Steeg (versteb)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:28:33 -0400

This does seem to be aggressive. Ver Steeg becomes Steeg. Van Caenegem
becomes Caenegem.

Any way to make the "official" version of the tools know about 2-part
last names?

Bill Ver Steeg 

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked]
[mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Adam Roach
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:22 PM
To: Henrik Levkowetz; Jamal Hadi Salim
Cc: [email-masked]; Marshall Rose
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] bibliographical references

The xml2rfc tool seems to aggressively trim names on certain kinds of
boundaries, and discard information that the author clearly intended to
be part of his name. For example, whenever I get a new copy of xml2rfc,
I comment out the following lines:

This allows me to generate documents with my preferred designation of
"A.B.
Roach," instead of having to fix them up in AUTH48. (FWIW, I don't care
for the interaction between having a first initial that is an article
and a last name that is a noun without the ability to insert an
intervening letter).

It would be kind of nice if the tool stopped thinking that it knows how
to represent our names better than we do.

/a

On 6/1/09 3:05 PM, "Henrik Levkowetz" <[email-masked]> wrote:

>> I am not sure who to talk to - but this looked like a tools issue 
>> perhaps; if you are the wrong email address i would appreciate your 
>> guidance on who to talk to.
>> My name is consistently being mispelt over the last many years in 
>> many references; for example:
>> http://xml.resource.org/public/rfc/bibxml3/reference.I-D.draft-ietf-f
>> orces-sc
>> tptml-02.xml
>> shows:

> The source of the trouble seems to be that although your name is 
> entered correctly in the IETF database (I checked) the bibxml files 
> are created by processing the author information after it has been
exported in text format.
> 
> This is unfortunate, and I don't know if the creator and maintainers 
> of xml2rfc has a solution to this -- they may well have that, I just 
> don't know.
>

---

From: Julian Reschke <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:34:05 +0200

> Any way to make the "official" version of the tools know about 2-part

How about trying to make the tools chain extract the metadata from the 
XML version, when present?

BR, Julian

---

From: Marshall Rose <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:47:50 -0700

for the i-d repository, we are given a text file to produce the  
references file. there is no structured information.

if the i-d repository can produce it's only references files, that  
would be the preferred solution...

/mtr

On Jun 1, 2009, at 13:05 , Henrik Levkowetz wrote:

>> perhaps;
> entered
> of

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:30:09 +0200

> XML version, when present?

I thought that the bibxml draft author information was derived from one of
the textual exports of the IETF database author information, and if so then
Jamal's case won't be helped at all -- the information is already correct
in the database, but the export format looses the distinction between
given, middle, and family name, so the bibxml generation software will
have to guess.

Setting up an xml export format would be rather trivial; if anybody would
like to pitch in, then please show up at the code sprint in Stockholm
(see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETF75Sprint) and we
should be able to make this happen.

Best,

	Henrik

---

From: "Bill Ver Steeg (versteb)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 17:33:00 -0400

Seeing as how I have been taking from the tools and not putting, I will
try to make it to the Stockholm code sprint. Hopefully the travel gods
line up properly.

Bill VerSteeg 

-----Original Message-----
From: Henrik Levkowetz [mailto:[email-masked]] 
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:30 PM
To: Julian Reschke
Cc: Bill Ver Steeg (versteb); Marshall Rose; [email-masked];
Jamal Hadi Salim

On 2009-06-01 22:34 Julian Reschke said the following:
>  > This does seem to be aggressive. Ver Steeg becomes Steeg. Van 
> Caenegem  > becomes Caenegem.
>  >
>  > Any way to make the "official" version of the tools know about 
> 2-part  > last names?
>  >
>  > Bill Ver Steeg
> 

> XML version, when present?

I thought that the bibxml draft author information was derived from one
of the textual exports of the IETF database author information, and if
so then Jamal's case won't be helped at all -- the information is
already correct in the database, but the export format looses the
distinction between given, middle, and family name, so the bibxml
generation software will have to guess.

Setting up an xml export format would be rather trivial; if anybody
would like to pitch in, then please show up at the code sprint in
Stockholm (see
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb/wiki/IETF75Sprint) and we should
be able to make this happen.

Best,

	Henrik

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:41:13 +0200

> try to make it to the Stockholm code sprint. Hopefully the travel gods

Splendid!

Best,

	Henrik

---

From: Jamal Hadi Salim <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 19:15:26 -0400

Much thanks everybody. I dont have much time myself, but i will drop by if
i show up at the meeting.

cheers,
jamal