Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] idnits complaint: boilerplate complaints hard to track down

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:43:08 +0200

Hi Randall,

Sorry for the late response.  Inline:

On 2010-03-31 22:32 Randall Gellens said:
> Hi Henrik,
> 
> Sorry for not being more clear.  I was using verbose mode, but it was 
> still difficult to find the exact boilerplate text, since I needed 
> the "may contain" version.

Ok.  I understand that there is a problem :-) , but I don't fully understand
what the problem is.  Could you point me to or send me the input file, and
maybe a suggestion of what idnits could have said in order to be more helpful?

Best,

	Henrik

---

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 12:14:45 -0700

Hi Henrik,

As an example, run draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist-05.txt through.  It 
complains about the license text, which is fine, but it says:

      (You're using the IETF Trust Provisions' Section 6.b License Notice from
      12 Feb 2009 rather than one of the newer Notices.  See
      http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/.)

What I think would be most helpful would be to replace the "See" 
sentence with "Use one of the allowable boilerplate text blocks from 
FOO.  For more information on IETF licensing, please see 
http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/".  Then, replace FOO with a URL 
to a page that lists the currently allowable boilerplate text blocks. 
That is, the three or whatever main alternatives, with versions with 
and without the "may contain ... prior to November 10, 2008" text.

This way a draft author who discovers he is using a now-outdated 
boilerplate could easily see the allowable boilerplate blocks, pick 
the one that is appropriate, and replace the old text with the new.

idnits 2.12.02

tmp/draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist-05.txt:

   Checking boilerplate required by RFC 5378 and the IETF Trust (see
   http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info):
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

   ** The document seems to lack a License Notice according IETF Trust
      Provisions of 28 Dec 2009, Section 6.b.i or Provisions of 12 Sep 2009
      Section 6.b -- however, there's a paragraph with a matching beginning.
      Boilerplate error?

      IETF Trust Legal Provisions of 28-dec-2009, Section 6.b(i), paragraph 3:
      "This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal Provisions
       Relating to IETF Documents (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info)
       in effect on the date of publication of this document.  Please
       review these documents carefully, as they describe your rights and
       restrictions with respect to this document.  Code Components
       extracted from this document must include Simplified BSD License
       text as described in Section 4.e of the Trust Legal Provisions and
       are provided without warranty as described in the Simplified BSD
       License."    

      ... text found in draft:
      "This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal Provisions
       Relating to IETF Documents in effect on the date of publication of
.................................^
       this document (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info). Please review
       these documents carefully, as they describe your rights and
       restrictions with respect to this document."

      (You're using the IETF Trust Provisions' Section 6.b License Notice from
      12 Feb 2009 rather than one of the newer Notices.  See
      http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/.)

-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
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People that are really very weird can get into sensitive
positions and have a tremendous impact on history.
    --then U.S. Vice President Dan Quayle

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 11:33:54 +0200

Hi Randall,

(Adding Cc: to Marshall, for the IETF Trust)

> and without the "may contain ... prior to November 10, 2008" text.

Ok, now I understand.  I don't have any objections; I actually think
it would be a rather good idea to be able to do so.  However, no such
document is available from the trust today.  I have some reason to believe
it will be done for the next boilerplate revision, but it's actually
needed also for the current one, to support such usage as you suggest
above.

Perhaps the trust could be encouraged to put up something based on the
blank-ID template which Joe Touch sent to the WG chairs list recently.
(Enclosed below).

But until there's actually something which is on the trust's website
and has official standing, I'm reluctant to refer to something else
than the current trust document, however troublesome that is for the
current cut-and-paste use-case.

Finally, I have one other comment -- see after your next paragraph...

> the one that is appropriate, and replace the old text with the new.

Yes.  But maybe it's not well expressed in the "(You're using the ..."
paragraph, but the most recent boilerplate, which can be just cut-and-
pasted into the document, is the one quoted earlier in the idnits
output, after the error message indicated with '**' and before the
text found in the document.  And idnits tries to do this for most
earlier boilerplate, so the verbose output should give you something
to cut-and-paste, for all outdated boilerplate.  And if there's no
modern boilerplate at all found, it will emit a full set of the most
common ietf-stream boilerplate.

I think the responses above still doesn't quite provide the help and
assistance that would be reasonable in your case, but I also don't
have a better response until the trust puts up a boilerplate sample
document.

Best,

	Henrik

---

From: Randall Gellens <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 14:14:36 -0700

Hi Henrik,

>  blank-ID template which Joe Touch sent to the WG chairs list recently.

Doing so would be a terrific idea.  I can see your dilemma of not 
wanting to point to an unofficial URL.  I think the best course may 
depend on how long it will take to have something "official",  If, as 
you suggest, the trust can take the Joe Touch text and put it up on a 
web page fairly quickly, then waiting for this seems best.  On the 
other hand, if it might take the trust a few months, then putting up 
an unofficial page on the tools site, linked to from the idnits page, 
might be a good interim step; idnits can give a URL to this text.

Really, I don't see much problem with an unofficial page, since it's 
an extension of idnits; it lists the text that idnits finds 
acceptable.

>  common ietf-stream boilerplate.

I didn't think the text in the verbose response was what I needed to 
substitute.

>  Attachment converted: TiLand:joe-touch-blank-i-d.txt (TEXT/R*ch) (016C4014)

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