Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] FW: Subpoena to IETF / Authentication of Documents

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:35:32 +0200

Hi Brian,

On 2015-04-15 15:28, Brian Mack wrote:
> Henry,

Henrik, actually.

> We are outside lawyers for Metaswitch Networks and are involved in ongoing litigation in the Eastern District of Texas.
> 
> We subpoenaed the Internet Society d/b/a the IETF and they provided us with a declaration authenticating several IETF RFCs (and providing the date of publication (public availability)).
> 
> The IETF was unable to authenticate several documents hosted at tools.ietf.org (see below).  Would someone who runs the "tools" page be able to provide us with a short declaration?  We could send over a draft for you to review an sign.
> 
> These documents are very important to our case as prior art publications.

What I can assert about the documents is limited, given the date of the
documents (dates in 2000), as the dates are before I started fetching
documents directly from the IETF site.

There are 2 archives which started fetching documents earlier than I did,
and at least one of them is still up and running; hopefully you will have
better luck contacting the maintainer of that repository.

You can find the repository here:
  http://www.potaroo.net/ietf/

It is being run by Geoff Huston, <[email-masked]>.

If he has the documents in question in his repository, he may be able to
assert that he has copied them directly from the ietf site at the dates
indicated by the file system.  On my system, that's respectively

	2000-03-10 08:29 draft-kuthan-fcp-00.txt
	2000-06-15 09:42 draft-kuthan-fcp-01.txt
	2000-11-29 08:09 draft-kuthan-fcp-02.txt

but I am not in a position to assert that they were in my possession
with their current content at that time, unfortunately.

Best regards,

	Henrik

> 
> Please advise.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian
> 
> 
> From: Jorge Contreras [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 10:23 AM
> To: Brian Mack
> Subject: Re: Subpoena to IETF / Authentication of Documents
> Importance: High
> 
> Dear Brian,
> 
> Please see the explanation that I received from the IETF records custodian below:
> 
> "The process of authenticating an Internet-Draft (I-D) includes a confirmation that we, the Secretariat, can assert that we have had a solid chain of custody of the I-D in question from its initial filing through today.  In the case of the I-Ds listed below, we cannot make that assertion.
> Specifically, the I-Ds listed as being present on "tools.ietf.org<http://tools.ietf.org/>" are not able to be authenticated.  The "tools" servers are owned and operated by volunteers not under the direct control of the IETF, and the authenticity of *any* I-Ds on those servers, while *likely* to be valid, can never be *confirmed* to be valid.  Likewise the single I-D appearing in the "www.ietf.org/archive/id<http://www.ietf.org/archive/id>" location is shown by our records to be a copy of an I-D from the tools servers, and can therefore also not be authenticated.
> To be authentic, an I-D must be (a) on the actual www.ietf.org<http://www.ietf.org/> website and (b) confirmed by AMS to be in our chain-of-custody line from its original submission and (c) be a direct match for that source document, byte-for-byte.
> Since the I-Ds in the list below fail item (b) in the above process, AMS and the IETF cannot make any representation as to the authenticity of those I-Ds."
> 
> Please let me know if you would like to discuss.
> 
> Best regards,
> Jorge
> 
> Jorge L. Contreras
> Contreras Legal Strategy LLC
> 1711 Massachusetts Ave. NW, No. 710
> Washington, DC 20036
> [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
> 
> The contents of this message may be attorney-client privileged and confidential.  If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message immediately.
> 
> 
> From: Brian Mack <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>
> Date: Sunday, April 12, 2015 at 10:11 PM
> To: Jorge Contreras <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>
> Subject: RE: Subpoena to IETF / Authentication of Documents
> 
> Jorge,
> 
> We received your response to our subpoena in the Genband v. Metaswitch Networks case (2:14-cv-33).
> 
> There are a few documents that were included in included in Attachment B of the Morris declaration that could not be authenticated.  The declaration says these documents are not contained in the IETF records, but many still appear on the IETF website and are dated on the face of the documents.  Can you check on the following documents, and provide a declaration if possible on their authenticity as IETF documents (if not also on public availability)?
> 
> If you'd like to chat, I am around tomorrow afternoon.  The documents in bold below are particularly important to our case.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian
> 
> 
> 
> "Firewall Control Protocol Framework and Requirements" <draft-kuthan-fcp-00.txt>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kuthan-fcp-00
> 
> 
> "Firewall Control Protocol Framework and Requirements" <draft-kuthan-fcp-01.txt>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kuthan-fcp-01
> 
> 
> "Middlebox Communication: Framework and Requirements" <draft-kuthan-fcp-02.txt>
> 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kuthan-fcp-02
> 
> 
> 
> "H.323 Firewall Control Interface (HFCI")
> 
> <draft-rfced-info-mercer-00.txt>
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-rfced-info-mercer-00.txt
> 
> http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-rfced-info-mercer-00.txt
> 
> "The SIP INFO Method" <draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-info-method-00.pdf>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mmusic-sip-info-method-00
> "Mapping between ISUP and SIP" <draft-schulzrinne-ss7-00>
> http://www.cs.columbia.edu/sip/drafts/draft-schulzrinne-ss7-00.pdf
> "Media Gateway Control Protocol (MGCP) Call Flows" <draft-huitema-megaco-mgcp-flows-01>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-huitema-megaco-mgcp-flows-01
> The IP Network Address Translator (NAT)
> <draft-rfced-info-srisuresh-05.txt<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rfced-info-srisuresh-05.txt>>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rfced-info-srisuresh-05
> "A Proposal for Internet and Public Switched Telephone Networks (PSTN) Internetworking" [Dated March 1997 on Page 4]
> <draft-faynberg-telephone-sw-net-00.txt>
> http://tools.ietf.org/pdf/draft-faynberg-telephone-sw-net-00.pdf
> https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-faynberg-telephone-sw-net-00.txt
> "Analysis of Services and Interfaces used when Interworking Between the Internet and the Intelligent Network (I.N.)" [stating that "Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months" and that the draft "Expires on 7 January 1998"]
> <draft-conroy-interfaces-in-net-00.txt>
> https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-conroy-interfaces-in-net-00.txt
> http://tools.ietf.org/pdf/draft-conroy-interfaces-in-net-00.pdf
> "SIP for Click-To-Dial-Back and Third-Party Control" [dated November 20, 1997 on page 1]
> draft-ietf-pint-sip-00.txt
> https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-pint-sip-00.txt
> http://tools.ietf.org/pdf/draft-ietf-pint-sip-00.pdf
> "Architectural Framework for Signaling Transport" [dated February 1999 on page 1]
> draft-ietf-sigtran-framework-arch-00.txt
> https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sigtran-framework-arch-00.txt
> http://tools.ietf.org/pdf/draft-ietf-sigtran-framework-arch-00.pdf
> "PSTN-Internet Internetworking - An Architecture Overview" [Dated November 1997 on page 1]
> <draft-ietf-pint-inweb-00.txt>
> https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-pint-inweb-00.txt
> http://tools.ietf.org/pdf/draft-ietf-pint-inweb-00.pdf
> "Pre-PINT Callback Service Implementation Experiences"  [stating that "Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months" and that the draft "Expires on 21 May 1998"]
> <draft-ietf-pint-internet-callcenter-00.txt>
> https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-pint-internet-callcenter-00.txt
> http://tools.ietf.org/pdf/draft-ietf-pint-internet-callcenter-00.pdf
> "The PINT Profile of SIP and SDP: a Protocol for IP Access to Telephone Call Services" [dated August 7, 1998 on page 1]
> draft-ietf-pint-profile-00.txt
> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/42/I-D/draft-ietf-pint-profile-00.txt
> "RFC2458 - Toward the PSTN/Internet Inter-Networking--Pre-PINT Implementations" [dated March 1998 on page 1]
> https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-pint-pre-implement-00.txt
> http://tools.ietf.org/pdf/draft-ietf-pint-pre-implement-02.pdf
> "A Proposal for Internet Call Waiting Service using SIP An Implementation Report" [dated November 1998 at the bottom of page 1]
> <draft-ietf-pint-icw-00.txt>
> https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-pint-icw-00.txt
> "A proposal for the provisioning of PSTN initiated services running on the Internet" [dated March 1999 on page 2]
> <draft-ietf-pint-saint-00.txt>
> https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-pint-saint-00.txt
> http://tools.ietf.org/pdf/draft-ietf-pint-saint-00.pdf
> 
> From: Jorge Contreras [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 7:42 AM
> To: Brian Mack
> Subject: Re: Subpoena to IETF / Authentication of Documents
> 
> Brian,
> 
> I can accept service.  For your records, please note our new address below (though email correspondence is by far the most reliable way to communicate).
> 
> I will be in touch once I have reviewed the request with my client.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jorge L. Contreras
> Contreras Legal Strategy LLC
> 1711 Massachusetts Ave. NW, No. 710
> Washington, DC 20036
> [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
> 
> The contents of this message may be attorney-client privileged and confidential.  If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message immediately.
> 
> 
> From: Brian Mack <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>
> Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 9:30 PM
> To: Jorge Contreras <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>
> Subject: Subpoena to IETF / Authentication of Documents
> 
> 
> Contreras Legal Strategy LLC
> P.O. Box 4752
> St. Louis, MO 63108
> E-mail: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
> To whom it may concern:
> 
> Attached is a subpoena to The Internet Society d/b/a The Internet Engineering Take Force (IETF).  Please let me know if you can accept email service of this subpoena.
> 
> Best,
> Brian
> 
> Brian Mack
> Associate,
> Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan, LLP
> 
> 50 California Street, 22nd Floor
> San Francisco, CA 94111
> 415-875-6423 Direct
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> 
> 
>