Subject: [Tools-discuss] etherpad flaky and trouble reporting

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 14:09:09 -0500

https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org  was offline Tuesday, and seems still flaky
this afternoon.  Many of us use it for design team meetings and the like.
Today, I connect and it works for half a minute, and then stops.

I'm sure that I'm reporting this in the wrong place :-)

Truth is that I don't have a good way to find out where to report what to
other than my fading brain cells.  Or what services have SLAs and which ones
do not.

First suggestion:
       www.ietf.org/problems   should list all the distinct services, and
                                point to where to report.

      (of course, if you can't get to that page, then the web site is
      broken...)

Second suggestion:
       if the name is in *.tools.ietf.org then the thing has no SLA, and we
       shouldn't depend upon it, and there is no ticketing system to complain with.

       (I don't know if that is true.  Maybe this is unworkable)

--
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        | network architect  [
]     [email-masked]  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 20:38:16 +0100

Hi Michael,

I'm responding only through the list, not to you directly, in order to
be able to say this:  Please look at the bottom of this message, at the
list footer, and see if that gives you the information you need in order
to report an issue with etherpad.tools.ietf.org.

	Henrik

A few remarks inline, also.

>                                 point to where to report.

I can of course put the info which is now in the footer, there too.  But
then you'll complain that there's no place that points to that page.
>        shouldn't depend upon it, and there is no ticketing system to complain

The list pointer provides both a link to the ticketing system, which does
exist, and a direct email address.

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 17:22:00 -0500

I hope you understand that I'm trying to make the situation better,
not just complaining.

>Please report datatracker.ietf.org and mailarchive.ietf.org
>bugs at http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
>or send email to [email-masked]

okay, I think that I got that.

At least, I figured out from reading it that etherpad.tools.ietf.org should
not be reported there to [email-masked].

But, if my login doesn't work, or I need something tweaked with a document or
a permission that I think I should have, I think that datatracker-project is
the wrong place, and I should go to ietf-action or sometimes maybe the
secretariat directly.

And then there is [email-masked] which I think is for meeting issues, but it also
applies to jabber issues, and jabber is used between meetings as well.
I don't know if I can use [email-masked] between meetings, or which services it
would cover between meetings.  How would I get an ietf.webex.com account in
order to organize an virtual interim meeting?

I know that there is a page somewhere that tells me what to do with issues.
I found: https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/issues/ which reminded what
mtd@ was for and wasn't for.  I found that on the meeting page for 101.

>Please report tools.ietf.org bugs at
>http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues
>or send email to [email-masked]

so it doesn' say "*.tools.ietf.org", and it says "bugs" not service
interruptions.
If I can't get to tools.ietf.org, then I should email.

I would not have been able to see that footer though unless I happened to
have a tools-discuss email around to look at... and I don't think I've ever
scrolled down that far before :-)

    > then you'll complain that there's no place that points to that page.

Yes, that's true.
But maybe we can socialize a single place better than the algorithm that you
provided in the footer.

    > exist, and a direct email address.

I'm not sure that the average IETF'er needs or should be be on tools-discuss
to report a problem with the infrastructure.

--
Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-

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From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 00:32:10 +0100

Hi Michael,

> I hope you understand that I'm trying to make the situation better,

Yes :-)

I also understand from the additional examples below that you are pointing
at an issue which is much larger than just the datatracker and tools.ietf.org.

> okay, I think that I got that.

:-)

> the wrong place, and I should go to ietf-action or sometimes maybe the

Ok, with respect to non-bug issues related to tools, I think I'll tweak the
text in the footer a bit, so it's clear that the email address there is valid
for _all_ issues related to *.tools.ietf.org.  Good point.

> If I can't get to tools.ietf.org, then I should email.

Ack.  I'll tweak the text.

> scrolled down that far before :-)

Heh.  But that text _is_ intended for all the issues that still are reported
on this list, rather than to the points of contact given in the footer.

The wider issue you point at above clearly needs a different handling.

> But maybe we can socialize a single place better than the algorithm that you

Maybe.  At the moment I'm thinking of having a summary of the appropriate
points of contact on one single page, with a link directly from the
www.ietf.org front page, and also from the datatracker.  (Although I'm not
sure how often people find the bug reporting link which is already in the
datatracker menus...)

> to report a problem with the infrastructure.

Agreed, indeed not.

Best,

	Henrik

---

From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 14:40:45 +1300

On 01/02/2018 12:32, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
...
> sure how often people find the bug reporting link which is already in the

There's already https://www.ietf.org/contact/ if you can stand the Stupid Large
Font, but it has too many words and omits http://tools.ietf.org/tools/ietfdb
and http://tools.ietf.org/tools/issues.

It's linked quite prominently from the top menu bar on https://www.ietf.org
and from https://www.ietf.org/links/. So I'd expect people to look there
first. 

    Brian