Subject: [Tools-team] [Fwd: Re: Software tools for IETF -- suggestions?]

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:19:19 +0200

Got the message below from Lisa Dussault.  Will be interesting to see
how this compares with Bill's plone based site.

	Henrik

Subject: Re: Software tools for IETF -- suggestions?
From: Lisa Dusseault <[email-masked]>
To: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:44:29 -0700

I've been working on a software tool for the IETF to improve  
collaboration (particularly within WGs) and more ad-hoc publication  
processes, and I think it's now ready to unveil.

The site is <http://ietf.cse.ucsc.edu/>.  It's a WebDAV server, so any  
path on the server, e.g. <http://ietf.cse.ucsc.edu/caldav/> offers  
support for WebDAV methods.  The only exception is the path  
<http://ietf.cse.ucsc.edu/xythoswfs/webui/>, which is the path to a  
Web-based GUI that allows access to both the basic WebDAV functionality  
and some advanced, non-standard features offered by the server  
software.

The server software is Xythos WebFile Server, provided free for this  
site by Xythos Software, Inc.  <www.xythos.com>.  The software supports  
RFC2518 (WebDAV) including locking, RFC3253 (versioning), RFC3744  
(access control) and more. The site hosting is free from UCSC.  (The  
machine hardware was purchased by me, so I'd be happy to take donations  
until that cost is somewhat defrayed.)

Currently I'm managing site administration, which means I am setting up  
accounts and creating directories.  I am happy to create accounts and  
directories for WG chairs, editors, secretaries, and other IETF-related  
work efforts.

What can you do with a directory and some accounts on this server???
  - In the http://ietf.cse.ucsc.edu/caldav directory, I and my  
co-authors alternately work on a draft -- one of us can lock it and  
edit it and post changes back to the server.  We turned versioning on  
so we can see who changed it, and when, and download different versions  
to compare them (e.g. do a diff).
  - Publish presentations before or after meetings, get comments on them  
(check out the comments feature on the file's information page)
  - Keep your own archive of supporting material (e.g. meeting notes).
  - Maintain simple issues lists (e.g. in a spreadsheet) and delegate  
editing the issues list
  - Store and make public (or private) interop results, test suites, etc
  - Probably much more, but I'm not going to exhaustively list it.

Thanks to Marshall Rose, Jim Whitehead and Sung Kim for their help  
getting this project off the ground.  Comments welcome.

Lisa

On Sep 10, 2004, at 3:02 PM, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:

> (This is a copy of a posting made to the [email-masked] mailing list
>  - I think that wgchairs may have particularly interesting tool
>  suggestions, so don't want you to miss it :-)  /Henrik)
>
>
> IETFers,
>
> Do you have ideas for software tools that would make your IETF work
> easier? Do you have feedback about current IETF automation efforts?
>
> As part of the overall effort to improve IETF operations and structure,
> a Tools team has been chartered to develop requirements for additional
> and revised electronic tools to aid in the IETF operations.
>
> The charter of the Tools team (found at the IETF Tools web site,
> http://tools.ietf.org/) focuses initially on tools to improve the
> interface between IETF administration and the broader community; but
> will also look at tools to aid in the operation of individual working
> groups and the tasks of standards development.
>
> The Tools team is soliciting new tool suggestions and general comments,
> to be refined into a series of tool specifications.  Tool  
> specifications
> will then be used to implement or adopt software for IETF.
>
> The first item on Tools team list is the automation of draft submission
> to allow for quick and painless validation and posting of  
> Internet-Drafts.
> The first document describing the new draft submission tool is  
> available at:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tools-draft-submission 
> -00.txt
>
> What should we work on next? Please visit the list of possible future
> tools and send us additions as well as priority preferences:
> http://tools.ietf.org/wiki/ToolSuggestions
>
> Please send all Tools-related feedback to [email-masked], a
> newly formed mailing list; do this also if you add information to the
> wiki pages.  Subscription instructions:
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss
>
> --------
>
> The members of the tools team are:
>
>   * Alex Rousskov
>   * Bill Fenner
>   * Larry Masinter
>   * Stanislav Shalunov
>   * Henrik Levkowetz (chair)
>
> Schedule:
>
>   The group will initially focus on additional tools for use in the
>   interface between the IETF administration and the broader IETF
>   community.  The first draft of a set of requirements for an
>   Internet-Drafts Submission Tool has been posted, and feedback is
>   welcome.
>
>   Other administrative tools are expected to be specified over the next
>   six months. We will put together a list and priority schedule within
>   that time frame.
>
>   The Tools team may also conduct polls within the community for input  
> on
>   priorities, requirements, and feedback on currently deployed tools.
>
>   After the initial focus on administrative tools, the group will turn
>   its attention to tools of use for aiding working groups, authors and
>   other parts of the IETF community.
>
> --------
>
> 	Regards,
>
> 		Henrik
>

_______________________________________________
Tools-team mailing list
[email-masked]
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-team

---

From: Alex Rousskov <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:31:30 -0600 (MDT)

> how this compares with Bill's plone based site.

It looks like Lisa hosts and makes Xythos WFS software available to 
IETF WGS. The software seems to allow basic file manipulation and file 
comments. In other words, you get a directory of files that you can 
manage (rather than a collection of web pages). Files can contain 
HTML, of course.

My understanding is that with Plone one can do a lot more Web- and 
IETF-specific customizations. One can build web sites for WGs, for 
example. However, basic actions like providing a list of editable 
files would take more effort with Plone.

So, it looks like these two tools operate on a different level. Xythos 
software is for managing individual files and directories. Plone is 
for managing web sites.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Xythos seems to lack support for 
concurrent document changes (multiple authors changing a single 
document) and related conflict resolution schemes. These are common in 
software world, and I personally find it very useful for co-authoring 
drafts. Does Plone have any plugins for that?

Thanks,

Alex.

---

From: Henrik Levkowetz <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:44:24 +0200

Alex Rousskov wrote:

> It looks like Lisa hosts and makes Xythos WFS software available to IETF 
> WGS. The software seems to allow basic file manipulation and file 
> manage (rather than a collection of web pages). Files can contain HTML, 
> of course.
> 
> example. However, basic actions like providing a list of editable files 
> would take more effort with Plone.

Maybe Bill can tell us?  I was also thinking that the plone site
apparently provides WebDAV functionality too - and the impression
I got from the xythos site was that you had to do download/upload
in order to do changes, with no more sophisticated method supported
through the web interface.

> software is for managing individual files and directories. Plone is for 
> managing web sites.
> 

If so, that would be clearly interesting.  I agree on the apparent
Xythos capability here.

	Henrik

---

From: Harald Tveit Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:34:50 +0200

one nice thing about the webdav site is that I can view it as a file system 
in konqueror by putting webdav: rather than http: into the URL..... there's 
also supposed to be a "webdav" Linux file system type.....

---

From: Bill Fenner <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 11:47:56 -0700

This is true of the plone site too;
webdav://rtg.ietf.org:1980/RoutingArea/
(or webdavs://rtg.ietf.org:1981/RoutingArea/)
gives you an access-controlled view of the site; wg chairs can
edit files under /wg/<wgname>; ADs can edit files in the whole site;
users can edit files in /Members/<username>.

MacOS X has a davfs (that's how the iDisk works), so I use this
along with cadaver.

With plone, you're editing the file behind the content; with
Lisa's site, you're editing the content - this lets plone do
stuff like the wiki-like "structured text" formatting for
the "real site".

I've added an email gateway to my site; email to a certain address
is added as a new news item with "requested to publish" state, so
I can easily forward messages from ietf-announce.  I've also added
an RSS feed of news, http://rtg.ietf.org/allnews/RSSTopic .

So far, I haven't found a versioning product for plone.

  Bill