Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FY200E018TSWX@eListX.com>; Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FY200E018TRWW@eListX.com> (original mail from scoya@cnri.reston.va.us) ; Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FY200E038TRWU@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:32:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FY200E018TQWT@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FY200ALW8TPRB@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA10309; Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:30:27 -0400 From: The IESG Subject: Protocol Action: Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) HTTP Supplement to Proposed Standard Sender: scoya@cnri.reston.va.us To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: RFC Editor , IANA Cc: Internet Architecture Board Cc: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Message-id: <200007211830.OAA10309@ietf.org> List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , The IESG has approved the Internet-Draft 'Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) HTTP Supplement' as a Proposed Standard. In the same action, the IESG approved publication of HTTP MIME Type Handler Detection as an Informational RFC. These documents are the product of the Internet Open Trading Protocol Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Ned Freed and Patrik Faltstrom. Technical Summary Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) messages will be carried as XML documents. As such, the goal of mapping to the transport layer is to ensure that the underlying XML documents are carried successfully between the various parties. The document draft-ietf-trade-iotp-http-07.txt describes that mapping for the Hyper Text Transport Protocol (HTTP), Versions 1.0 and 1.1 [RFCs 1945, 2616]. The document draft-ietf-trade-mime-detector-03.txt explains common problems with the use of Accept header in HTTP for serverside discovery of client capabilities, and describes what can be done (spring 2000) using Java and other mechanisms to give client as good content as possible. Working Group Summary There was consensus in the working group. The content type application/iotp has been discussed on the ietf-types mailing list. Protocol Quality The documents were reviewed by Patrik Faltstrom. Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXY007019LV9X@eListX.com>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:58:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXY007019LR9T@eListX.com> (original mail from lde008@dma.isg.mot.com) ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXY007039LP9J@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:58:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXY007019LJ9A@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXY001EU9LF7E@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id HAA08924 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:56:55 -0700 (MST) Received: [from noah.dma.isg.mot.com (noah.dma.isg.mot.com [150.21.2.29]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id HAA24147 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:56:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from dma.isg.mot.com (nrlab-10.dma.isg.mot.com [150.21.50.48]) by noah.dma.isg.mot.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17351; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:56:52 -0400 From: Donald Eastlake 3rd Subject: TRADE WG meeting at Pittsburgh IETF meeting Sender: lde008@dma.isg.mot.com To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Cc: lde008@dma.isg.mot.com Message-id: <200007191456.KAA17351@noah.dma.isg.mot.com> List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , The TRADE WG meeting has been scheduled for 1pm (1300) to 3:15pm (1515) on Tuesday, August 1st, at the Pittsburgh IETF meeting. Donald ================================================================== Donald Eastlake 3rd +1 978-562-2827(h) dee3@torque.pothole.com 140 Forest Avenue +1 508-261-5434(w) lde008@dma.isg.mot.com Hudson, MA 01749 USA Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXQ00801TLWW9@eListX.com>; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXQ00801TLVW7@eListX.com> (original mail from dee3@torque.pothole.com) ; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXQ00803TLUW5@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXQ00801TLRW2@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from torque.pothole.com ([38.138.52.132]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXQ0081TTLQ64@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by torque.pothole.com (8.8.2/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA01008; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:30:50 -0400 From: "Donald E. Eastlake 3rd" Subject: update ECML 1.1 draft To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Cc: dee3@torque.pothole.com Message-id: <200007151430.KAA01008@torque.pothole.com> X-Authentication-warning: torque.pothole.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , X-MTS: smtp The ECML alliance has produced an updated ECML 1.1 draft which is available at . Donald ===================================================================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd dee3@torque.pothole.com 140 Forest Avenue +1 978-562-2827(h) Hudson, MA 01749 USA +1 508-261-5434(w) Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXP00401QWNYS@eListX.com>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:33:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXP00401QWLYR@eListX.com> (original mail from smith@interlog.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:33:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXP00403QWKYN@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:33:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXP00401QWJYM@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXP00MD7QWIO4@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ip189.toronto17.dialup.canada.psi.net (ip189.toronto17.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.5.83.189]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA19966; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:32:12 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Chris Smith Subject: Re: Two questions to IOTP spec In-reply-to: <396EE868.1F6@c-lab.de> X-X-Sender: smith@mail.interlog.com To: Johannes Lessmann Cc: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , On Fri, 14 Jul 2000, Johannes Lessmann wrote: > I have two questions: > > 1) Imagine a consumer makes an order (step 1 in Offer Doc Exchange). > How can a merchant directly tell him that the ordered goods are > not available. As far as i see, the merchant would need to > send back an Offer Resp Block with Status comp with CompletionCode > "PermNotAvail" or "TempNotAvail". But in order to do this, the > StatusType must be "Delivery". Yet we are in an Offer Exchange, so > the StatusType has to be "Offer" according to the spec. > Where am i wrong? IOTP is a purchase protocol, and as such, would not normally get invoked until after 'shopping' is finished. A completely integrated merchant would control the availability of goods to be placed in a virtual shopping cart (for example). When the consumer indicates "checkout", the merchant would already know that only available items are in the cart and so everything that the consumer wants is available. Alternatively, if there is the possibility of unavailable items in the cart, the merchant has three choices: a) since the request to 'checkout' is not actually a request of type application/iotp, the merchant is free to respond with text/html and specify the goods that are not available. The consumer can then be given controls to either remove the goods from the cart, accept them as backordered, or any other option the merchant thinks is worthwhile. b) The merchant can proceed to produce an offer of type application/iotp, and the invoice details can specify that items are included (and to be paid for) or have been back-ordered, and can be paid for at a later date. c) If the merchant is confident that re-supply is coming soon, they can simply create an offer for all requested goods, accept payment, and ship goods as they arrive. In this case, the merchant should have some contingency arrangements in the event that expected shipments do not arrive. > 2) As far as i see, the IOTP only deals with communication between > a consumer and a non-consumer. Is that true? Would it not be > sensefull if the Delivery Request were initiated by the merchant > rather than the consumer (step 1 of Delivery Doc Exchange)? > How does a merchant get to know that the payment was successfully > performed? Or cancelled? If a merchant wishes, they can assign themselves all the roles of Merchant, PaymentHandler, and DeliveryHandler. That way, they get to see all the information you have indicated. The trading roles are like actors in a play. Any given merchant is free to set up a "one-man show" and play all the parts himself. In many cases, though, merchants are already outsourcing their logistics. In this case, the DeliveryHandler could even be (example!) FedEx, who can read the DeliveryRequest, check the original OfferResponse signature from the Merchant and the PaymentResponse signature from the PaymentHandler, and move the goods from storage into the delivery channel. In a best case scenario, you could order physical goods at 11:59 PM for next day 9 AM delivery. IOTP simply *allows* (but does not force) this capability. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Smith Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00H01YPXAT@eListX.com>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00H01YPUAM@eListX.com> (original mail from ietf-trade-moderator@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00H01YPSAC@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:25:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00G01XFLZ2@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-moderator@moderate.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00G01XFKZ1@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-moderator@lists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00G03XFKYZ@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00G01XFJYY@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:57:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iprsystems.com (mail.ozauthors.com [203.33.146.221]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXO00DAVXFGWB@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:57:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpe-24-192-78-175.qld.bigpond.net.au ([24.192.78.175] verified) by iprsystems.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3b9) with ESMTP id 170118; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 23:57:08 +0930 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 23:12:25 +1000 From: Renato Iannella Subject: Re: Other name for "digital-right"? In-reply-to: <396D15BA.7176472D@isl.ntt.co.jp> To: Ko Fujimura , ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Message-id: <2771891.3172605145@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.0.2 (MacOS) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , --On 13/7/00 10:04 AM +0900 Ko Fujimura wrote: >> Call it a "voucher", but don't use the word "rights" as this >> means "intellectual property rights". > > Thank you for a good suggestion. But I have another concern; a "voucher" > might be an appropriate word in USA but it might be misunderstood as a > "discount coupon" in UK. So, I prefer a word of which meaning is more > neutral. > > In this sense, I would like to stick to "rights". Are there any idea > like "XXXXX rights" which correspond to "IP rights"? I think the term "rights" is the potentially more misleading term. For example, if you compare it to XRML [1]. Cheers...Renato Chief Scientist, IPR Systems Pty Ltd ...............................unlocking the value of information [1] http://www.xrml.org/ Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00G01TMUBQ@eListX.com>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00G01TMSBH@eListX.com> (original mail from ietf-trade-moderator@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00G01TMPBC@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00D01N9HXS@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-moderator@moderate.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 06:17:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00D01N9GXP@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-moderator@lists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 06:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00D03N9FXN@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 06:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00D01N9EXM@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 06:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni-paderborn.de (uni-paderborn.de [131.234.22.30]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXO00D7HN9D7I@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 06:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pigpen.c-lab.de ([131.234.80.53]:60814 "HELO pigpen") by mail.uni-paderborn.de with SMTP id ; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:16:09 +0200 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:16:08 +0200 From: Johannes Lessmann Subject: Two questions to IOTP spec Sender: lessmann@uni-paderborn.de To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Message-id: <396EE868.1F6@c-lab.de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , Hi, i intend to make a test implementation of IOTP. I have two questions: 1) Imagine a consumer makes an order (step 1 in Offer Doc Exchange). How can a merchant directly tell him that the ordered goods are not available. As far as i see, the merchant would need to send back an Offer Resp Block with Status comp with CompletionCode "PermNotAvail" or "TempNotAvail". But in order to do this, the StatusType must be "Delivery". Yet we are in an Offer Exchange, so the StatusType has to be "Offer" according to the spec. Where am i wrong? 2) As far as i see, the IOTP only deals with communication between a consumer and a non-consumer. Is that true? Would it not be sensefull if the Delivery Request were initiated by the merchant rather than the consumer (step 1 of Delivery Doc Exchange)? How does a merchant get to know that the payment was successfully performed? Or cancelled? Please excuse me if the quesions were already discussed earlier. Thanks, Johannes C-Lab, Germany Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00001D0OFR@eListX.com>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00001D0OFQ@eListX.com> (original mail from dee3@torque.pothole.com) ; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00003D0NFO@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00001D0NFN@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from torque.pothole.com ([38.138.52.132]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXM00014D0L7O@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by torque.pothole.com (8.8.2/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA29207; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:42:12 -0400 From: "Donald E. Eastlake 3rd" Subject: TRADE meeting in Pittsburgh To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Cc: dee3@torque.pothole.com Message-id: <200007130442.AAA29207@torque.pothole.com> X-Authentication-warning: torque.pothole.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , X-MTS: smtp The first preliminary IETF schedule for the upcoming meeting in Pittsburg, which may get posted on the IETF web site tonight, had the TRADE WG meeting on Thursday. However, due to a conflict, I have asked the schedulers to see if they can move it earlier in the week. Thanks, Donald ===================================================================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd dee3@torque.pothole.com 140 Forest Avenue +1 978-562-2827(h) Hudson, MA 01749 USA +1 508-261-5434(w) Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00A012YE8N@eListX.com>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00A012YD8M@eListX.com> (original mail from fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp) ; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00A032YD8K@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:03:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00A012YC8J@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tama3.tas.ntt.co.jp (tama3.tas.ntt.co.jp [192.68.248.40]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXM0069Q2Y5UP@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nttmail.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail.tas.ntt.co.jp [192.68.248.11]) by tama3.tas.ntt.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W/01/21/00) with ESMTP id KAA20592 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:02:13 +0900 (JST envelope-from fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp) Received: from alsace.isl.ntt.co.jp by nttmail.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W/07/11/00) with ESMTP id KAA02202 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:02:08 +0900 (JST envelope-from fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp) Received: from isl.ntt.co.jp (degas.isl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.104.56]) by alsace.isl.ntt.co.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) with ESMTP id KAA00629 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:02:07 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:04:58 +0900 From: Ko Fujimura Subject: Re: Other name for "digital-right"? To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Message-id: <396D15BA.7176472D@isl.ntt.co.jp> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [ja] (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: ja References: <396B0AA2.E82DC48E@isl.ntt.co.jp> List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , I received a comment: > > I agreed it, but I'm still wondering how to change it. There are several > > candidates, e.g., electronic rights, digital instruments, XML-Rights, > > XML-Ticket, ... but I haven't decided yet. Does anyone give me any idea? > > Any suggestion is appreciated. > > Call it a "voucher", but don't use the word "rights" as this > means "intellectual property rights". Thank you for a good suggestion. But I have another concern; a "voucher" might be an appropriate word in USA but it might be misunderstood as a "discount coupon" in UK. So, I prefer a word of which meaning is more neutral. In this sense, I would like to stick to "rights". Are there any idea like "XXXXX rights" which correspond to "IP rights"? Ko Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXJ008017R0DH@eListX.com>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXJ008017QYDG@eListX.com> (original mail from fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp) ; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXJ008037QYDE@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXJ008017QXDD@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tama3.tas.ntt.co.jp (tama3.tas.ntt.co.jp [192.68.248.40]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXJ004LV7MDVS@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:54:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nttmail.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail.tas.ntt.co.jp [192.68.248.11]) by tama3.tas.ntt.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W/01/21/00) with ESMTP id UAA02663 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:50:23 +0900 (JST envelope-from fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp) Received: from alsace.isl.ntt.co.jp by nttmail.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W/07/11/00) with ESMTP id UAA00178 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:50:21 +0900 (JST envelope-from fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp) Received: from isl.ntt.co.jp (degas.isl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.104.56]) by alsace.isl.ntt.co.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) with ESMTP id UAA23769 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:50:21 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:53:06 +0900 From: Ko Fujimura Subject: Other name for "digital-right"? To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Message-id: <396B0AA2.E82DC48E@isl.ntt.co.jp> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [ja] (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: ja List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , Hi all, I'm now working on revising draft-ietf-trade-dtr-requirements-00. Someone pointed out that "digital-right" is confusing with "IP rights" at the last meeting as described in the meeting note: http://lists.elistx.com/archives/ietf-trade/200004/msg00000.html I agreed it, but I'm still wondering how to change it. There are several candidates, e.g., electronic rights, digital instruments, XML-Rights, XML-Ticket, ... but I haven't decided yet. Does anyone give me any idea? Any suggestion is appreciated. Ko ---------------------------------------------------------- Ko Fujimura, NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories 1-1 Hikarinooka, Yokosuka-shi, Kanagawa 239-0847, JAPAN Tel: +81-(0)468-59-3814, Fax: +81-(0)468-59-2241 Email: fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXH00201ZMZHP@eListX.com>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXH00201ZMVHO@eListX.com> (original mail from dee3@torque.pothole.com) ; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXH00203ZMUHM@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:01:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXH00201ZMRHL@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from torque.pothole.com ([38.138.52.132]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXH001CMZMODF@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by torque.pothole.com (8.8.2/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA24297 for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:02:42 -0400 From: "Donald E. Eastlake 3rd" Subject: TRADE WG meeting at IETF in Pittsburgh To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Message-id: <200007102002.QAA24297@torque.pothole.com> X-Authentication-warning: torque.pothole.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , X-MTS: smtp Hi, I'm working on a draft agenda. Anyone who would like to make any presentations at the TRADE WG meeting at the IETF Pittsburgh meeting should contact me. Thanks, Donald ===================================================================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd dee3@torque.pothole.com 140 Forest Avenue +1 978-562-2827(h) Hudson, MA 01749 USA +1 508-261-5434(w) Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FY200E018TSWX@eListX.com>; Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:32:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FY200E018TRWW@eListX.com> (original mail from scoya@cnri.reston.va.us) ; Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FY200E038TRWU@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:32:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FY200E018TQWT@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FY200ALW8TPRB@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA10309; Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 14:30:27 -0400 From: The IESG Subject: Protocol Action: Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) HTTP Supplement to Proposed Standard Sender: scoya@cnri.reston.va.us To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: RFC Editor , IANA Cc: Internet Architecture Board Cc: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Message-id: <200007211830.OAA10309@ietf.org> List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , The IESG has approved the Internet-Draft 'Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) HTTP Supplement' as a Proposed Standard. In the same action, the IESG approved publication of HTTP MIME Type Handler Detection as an Informational RFC. These documents are the product of the Internet Open Trading Protocol Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Ned Freed and Patrik Faltstrom. Technical Summary Internet Open Trading Protocol (IOTP) messages will be carried as XML documents. As such, the goal of mapping to the transport layer is to ensure that the underlying XML documents are carried successfully between the various parties. The document draft-ietf-trade-iotp-http-07.txt describes that mapping for the Hyper Text Transport Protocol (HTTP), Versions 1.0 and 1.1 [RFCs 1945, 2616]. The document draft-ietf-trade-mime-detector-03.txt explains common problems with the use of Accept header in HTTP for serverside discovery of client capabilities, and describes what can be done (spring 2000) using Java and other mechanisms to give client as good content as possible. Working Group Summary There was consensus in the working group. The content type application/iotp has been discussed on the ietf-types mailing list. Protocol Quality The documents were reviewed by Patrik Faltstrom. Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXY007019LV9X@eListX.com>; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:58:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXY007019LR9T@eListX.com> (original mail from lde008@dma.isg.mot.com) ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:58:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXY007039LP9J@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:58:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXY007019LJ9A@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:58:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXY001EU9LF7E@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id HAA08924 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:56:55 -0700 (MST) Received: [from noah.dma.isg.mot.com (noah.dma.isg.mot.com [150.21.2.29]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id HAA24147 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:56:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from dma.isg.mot.com (nrlab-10.dma.isg.mot.com [150.21.50.48]) by noah.dma.isg.mot.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17351; Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:56:52 -0400 From: Donald Eastlake 3rd Subject: TRADE WG meeting at Pittsburgh IETF meeting Sender: lde008@dma.isg.mot.com To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Cc: lde008@dma.isg.mot.com Message-id: <200007191456.KAA17351@noah.dma.isg.mot.com> List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , The TRADE WG meeting has been scheduled for 1pm (1300) to 3:15pm (1515) on Tuesday, August 1st, at the Pittsburgh IETF meeting. Donald ================================================================== Donald Eastlake 3rd +1 978-562-2827(h) dee3@torque.pothole.com 140 Forest Avenue +1 508-261-5434(w) lde008@dma.isg.mot.com Hudson, MA 01749 USA Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXQ00801TLWW9@eListX.com>; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXQ00801TLVW7@eListX.com> (original mail from dee3@torque.pothole.com) ; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:29:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXQ00803TLUW5@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:29:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXQ00801TLRW2@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from torque.pothole.com ([38.138.52.132]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXQ0081TTLQ64@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:29:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by torque.pothole.com (8.8.2/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA01008; Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:30:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:30:50 -0400 From: "Donald E. Eastlake 3rd" Subject: update ECML 1.1 draft To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Cc: dee3@torque.pothole.com Message-id: <200007151430.KAA01008@torque.pothole.com> X-Authentication-warning: torque.pothole.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , X-MTS: smtp The ECML alliance has produced an updated ECML 1.1 draft which is available at . Donald ===================================================================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd dee3@torque.pothole.com 140 Forest Avenue +1 978-562-2827(h) Hudson, MA 01749 USA +1 508-261-5434(w) Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXP00401QWNYS@eListX.com>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:33:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXP00401QWLYR@eListX.com> (original mail from smith@interlog.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:33:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXP00403QWKYN@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:33:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXP00401QWJYM@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.interlog.com (smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXP00MD7QWIO4@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:33:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ip189.toronto17.dialup.canada.psi.net (ip189.toronto17.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.5.83.189]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA19966; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 20:32:12 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Chris Smith Subject: Re: Two questions to IOTP spec In-reply-to: <396EE868.1F6@c-lab.de> X-X-Sender: smith@mail.interlog.com To: Johannes Lessmann Cc: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , On Fri, 14 Jul 2000, Johannes Lessmann wrote: > I have two questions: > > 1) Imagine a consumer makes an order (step 1 in Offer Doc Exchange). > How can a merchant directly tell him that the ordered goods are > not available. As far as i see, the merchant would need to > send back an Offer Resp Block with Status comp with CompletionCode > "PermNotAvail" or "TempNotAvail". But in order to do this, the > StatusType must be "Delivery". Yet we are in an Offer Exchange, so > the StatusType has to be "Offer" according to the spec. > Where am i wrong? IOTP is a purchase protocol, and as such, would not normally get invoked until after 'shopping' is finished. A completely integrated merchant would control the availability of goods to be placed in a virtual shopping cart (for example). When the consumer indicates "checkout", the merchant would already know that only available items are in the cart and so everything that the consumer wants is available. Alternatively, if there is the possibility of unavailable items in the cart, the merchant has three choices: a) since the request to 'checkout' is not actually a request of type application/iotp, the merchant is free to respond with text/html and specify the goods that are not available. The consumer can then be given controls to either remove the goods from the cart, accept them as backordered, or any other option the merchant thinks is worthwhile. b) The merchant can proceed to produce an offer of type application/iotp, and the invoice details can specify that items are included (and to be paid for) or have been back-ordered, and can be paid for at a later date. c) If the merchant is confident that re-supply is coming soon, they can simply create an offer for all requested goods, accept payment, and ship goods as they arrive. In this case, the merchant should have some contingency arrangements in the event that expected shipments do not arrive. > 2) As far as i see, the IOTP only deals with communication between > a consumer and a non-consumer. Is that true? Would it not be > sensefull if the Delivery Request were initiated by the merchant > rather than the consumer (step 1 of Delivery Doc Exchange)? > How does a merchant get to know that the payment was successfully > performed? Or cancelled? If a merchant wishes, they can assign themselves all the roles of Merchant, PaymentHandler, and DeliveryHandler. That way, they get to see all the information you have indicated. The trading roles are like actors in a play. Any given merchant is free to set up a "one-man show" and play all the parts himself. In many cases, though, merchants are already outsourcing their logistics. In this case, the DeliveryHandler could even be (example!) FedEx, who can read the DeliveryRequest, check the original OfferResponse signature from the Merchant and the PaymentResponse signature from the PaymentHandler, and move the goods from storage into the delivery channel. In a best case scenario, you could order physical goods at 11:59 PM for next day 9 AM delivery. IOTP simply *allows* (but does not force) this capability. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Smith Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00H01YPXAT@eListX.com>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:25:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00H01YPUAM@eListX.com> (original mail from ietf-trade-moderator@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00H01YPSAC@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 10:25:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00G01XFLZ2@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-moderator@moderate.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00G01XFKZ1@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-moderator@lists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00G03XFKYZ@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:57:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00G01XFJYY@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:57:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iprsystems.com (mail.ozauthors.com [203.33.146.221]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXO00DAVXFGWB@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:57:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpe-24-192-78-175.qld.bigpond.net.au ([24.192.78.175] verified) by iprsystems.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.3b9) with ESMTP id 170118; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 23:57:08 +0930 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 23:12:25 +1000 From: Renato Iannella Subject: Re: Other name for "digital-right"? In-reply-to: <396D15BA.7176472D@isl.ntt.co.jp> To: Ko Fujimura , ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Message-id: <2771891.3172605145@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mulberry/2.0.2 (MacOS) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , --On 13/7/00 10:04 AM +0900 Ko Fujimura wrote: >> Call it a "voucher", but don't use the word "rights" as this >> means "intellectual property rights". > > Thank you for a good suggestion. But I have another concern; a "voucher" > might be an appropriate word in USA but it might be misunderstood as a > "discount coupon" in UK. So, I prefer a word of which meaning is more > neutral. > > In this sense, I would like to stick to "rights". Are there any idea > like "XXXXX rights" which correspond to "IP rights"? I think the term "rights" is the potentially more misleading term. For example, if you compare it to XRML [1]. Cheers...Renato Chief Scientist, IPR Systems Pty Ltd ...............................unlocking the value of information [1] http://www.xrml.org/ Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00G01TMUBQ@eListX.com>; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00G01TMSBH@eListX.com> (original mail from ietf-trade-moderator@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00G01TMPBC@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00D01N9HXS@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-moderator@moderate.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 06:17:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00D01N9GXP@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-moderator@lists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 06:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00D03N9FXN@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 06:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXO00D01N9EXM@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Fri, 14 Jul 2000 06:17:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from uni-paderborn.de (uni-paderborn.de [131.234.22.30]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXO00D7HN9D7I@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 06:17:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pigpen.c-lab.de ([131.234.80.53]:60814 "HELO pigpen") by mail.uni-paderborn.de with SMTP id ; Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:16:09 +0200 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:16:08 +0200 From: Johannes Lessmann Subject: Two questions to IOTP spec Sender: lessmann@uni-paderborn.de To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Message-id: <396EE868.1F6@c-lab.de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , Hi, i intend to make a test implementation of IOTP. I have two questions: 1) Imagine a consumer makes an order (step 1 in Offer Doc Exchange). How can a merchant directly tell him that the ordered goods are not available. As far as i see, the merchant would need to send back an Offer Resp Block with Status comp with CompletionCode "PermNotAvail" or "TempNotAvail". But in order to do this, the StatusType must be "Delivery". Yet we are in an Offer Exchange, so the StatusType has to be "Offer" according to the spec. Where am i wrong? 2) As far as i see, the IOTP only deals with communication between a consumer and a non-consumer. Is that true? Would it not be sensefull if the Delivery Request were initiated by the merchant rather than the consumer (step 1 of Delivery Doc Exchange)? How does a merchant get to know that the payment was successfully performed? Or cancelled? Please excuse me if the quesions were already discussed earlier. Thanks, Johannes C-Lab, Germany Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00001D0OFR@eListX.com>; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:41:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00001D0OFQ@eListX.com> (original mail from dee3@torque.pothole.com) ; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00003D0NFO@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00001D0NFN@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from torque.pothole.com ([38.138.52.132]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXM00014D0L7O@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by torque.pothole.com (8.8.2/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA29207; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:42:12 -0400 From: "Donald E. Eastlake 3rd" Subject: TRADE meeting in Pittsburgh To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Cc: dee3@torque.pothole.com Message-id: <200007130442.AAA29207@torque.pothole.com> X-Authentication-warning: torque.pothole.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , X-MTS: smtp The first preliminary IETF schedule for the upcoming meeting in Pittsburg, which may get posted on the IETF web site tonight, had the TRADE WG meeting on Thursday. However, due to a conflict, I have asked the schedulers to see if they can move it earlier in the week. Thanks, Donald ===================================================================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd dee3@torque.pothole.com 140 Forest Avenue +1 978-562-2827(h) Hudson, MA 01749 USA +1 508-261-5434(w) Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00A012YE8N@eListX.com>; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00A012YD8M@eListX.com> (original mail from fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp) ; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00A032YD8K@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:03:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXM00A012YC8J@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tama3.tas.ntt.co.jp (tama3.tas.ntt.co.jp [192.68.248.40]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXM0069Q2Y5UP@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nttmail.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail.tas.ntt.co.jp [192.68.248.11]) by tama3.tas.ntt.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W/01/21/00) with ESMTP id KAA20592 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:02:13 +0900 (JST envelope-from fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp) Received: from alsace.isl.ntt.co.jp by nttmail.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W/07/11/00) with ESMTP id KAA02202 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:02:08 +0900 (JST envelope-from fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp) Received: from isl.ntt.co.jp (degas.isl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.104.56]) by alsace.isl.ntt.co.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) with ESMTP id KAA00629 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:02:07 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:04:58 +0900 From: Ko Fujimura Subject: Re: Other name for "digital-right"? To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Message-id: <396D15BA.7176472D@isl.ntt.co.jp> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [ja] (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: ja References: <396B0AA2.E82DC48E@isl.ntt.co.jp> List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , I received a comment: > > I agreed it, but I'm still wondering how to change it. There are several > > candidates, e.g., electronic rights, digital instruments, XML-Rights, > > XML-Ticket, ... but I haven't decided yet. Does anyone give me any idea? > > Any suggestion is appreciated. > > Call it a "voucher", but don't use the word "rights" as this > means "intellectual property rights". Thank you for a good suggestion. But I have another concern; a "voucher" might be an appropriate word in USA but it might be misunderstood as a "discount coupon" in UK. So, I prefer a word of which meaning is more neutral. In this sense, I would like to stick to "rights". Are there any idea like "XXXXX rights" which correspond to "IP rights"? Ko Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXJ008017R0DH@eListX.com>; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXJ008017QYDG@eListX.com> (original mail from fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp) ; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:54:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXJ008037QYDE@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXJ008017QXDD@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com); Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tama3.tas.ntt.co.jp (tama3.tas.ntt.co.jp [192.68.248.40]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXJ004LV7MDVS@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 07:54:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nttmail.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail.tas.ntt.co.jp [192.68.248.11]) by tama3.tas.ntt.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W/01/21/00) with ESMTP id UAA02663 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:50:23 +0900 (JST envelope-from fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp) Received: from alsace.isl.ntt.co.jp by nttmail.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.9.3+3.2W/3.7W/07/11/00) with ESMTP id UAA00178 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:50:21 +0900 (JST envelope-from fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp) Received: from isl.ntt.co.jp (degas.isl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.104.56]) by alsace.isl.ntt.co.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) with ESMTP id UAA23769 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:50:21 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 20:53:06 +0900 From: Ko Fujimura Subject: Other name for "digital-right"? To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Message-id: <396B0AA2.E82DC48E@isl.ntt.co.jp> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [ja] (Win98; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: ja List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , Hi all, I'm now working on revising draft-ietf-trade-dtr-requirements-00. Someone pointed out that "digital-right" is confusing with "IP rights" at the last meeting as described in the meeting note: http://lists.elistx.com/archives/ietf-trade/200004/msg00000.html I agreed it, but I'm still wondering how to change it. There are several candidates, e.g., electronic rights, digital instruments, XML-Rights, XML-Ticket, ... but I haven't decided yet. Does anyone give me any idea? Any suggestion is appreciated. Ko ---------------------------------------------------------- Ko Fujimura, NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories 1-1 Hikarinooka, Yokosuka-shi, Kanagawa 239-0847, JAPAN Tel: +81-(0)468-59-3814, Fax: +81-(0)468-59-2241 Email: fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp Return-Path: Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXH00201ZMZHP@eListX.com>; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXH00201ZMVHO@eListX.com> (original mail from dee3@torque.pothole.com) ; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:01:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ELISTS-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXH00203ZMUHM@eListX.com> for ietf-trade-1104-outbound@reprocess.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:01:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) id <0FXH00201ZMRHL@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@elists.eListX.com (ORCPT rfc822;ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:01:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from torque.pothole.com ([38.138.52.132]) by eListX.com (PMDF V5.2-33 #43584) with ESMTP id <0FXH001CMZMODF@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by torque.pothole.com (8.8.2/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA24297 for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:02:42 -0400 From: "Donald E. Eastlake 3rd" Subject: TRADE WG meeting at IETF in Pittsburgh To: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Message-id: <200007102002.QAA24297@torque.pothole.com> X-Authentication-warning: torque.pothole.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Help: , X-MTS: smtp Hi, I'm working on a draft agenda. Anyone who would like to make any presentations at the TRADE WG meeting at the IETF Pittsburgh meeting should contact me. Thanks, Donald ===================================================================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd dee3@torque.pothole.com 140 Forest Avenue +1 978-562-2827(h) Hudson, MA 01749 USA +1 508-261-5434(w)