Return-Path: Received: from FILTER-ELIST-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HTR00902R710Q@elistx.com> (original mail from david.burdett@commerceone.com); Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:40:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HTR00901R710P@elistx.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:40:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from C1SCAMSG02.commerceone.com (mail3.commerceone.com [63.80.93.189]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) with ESMTP id <0HTR004LZR70CL@elistx.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:40:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:37:54 -0800 From: david.burdett@commerceone.com Subject: RE: Daily activity report To: galvin@acm.org, ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com Message-id: <99F57F955F3EEF4DABA7C88CFA7EB45A0CB999F6@c1plenaexm04.commerceone.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-Topic: Daily activity report Thread-Index: AcP9kkExuvz/kUOkR5GOyYxWMrw/KAAALMSw Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: , List-Id: It also contains the Beagle virus in the ZIP file which Norton Antivirus = did not immediately detect (at least on my PC) so just delete it. David -----Original Message----- From: James M Galvin [mailto:galvin@acm.org] Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 4:33 PM To: ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com Subject: Re: Daily activity report This message was forged. It was *not* from me. Jim On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 galvin@acm.org wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:16:30 -0600 From: galvin@acm.org To: ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com Subject: Daily activity report Return-Path: Received: from FILTER-ELIST-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HTR00802QW7IE@elistx.com> (original mail from galvin@acm.org); Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:33:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HTR00801QW7ID@elistx.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:33:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (one.elistx.com [209.116.252.130]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) with ESMTP id <0HTR0069RQW62H@elistx.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:33:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:33:00 -0500 (EST) From: James M Galvin Subject: Re: Daily activity report In-reply-to: X-X-Sender: galvin@three.elistx.com To: ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: , List-Id: This message was forged. It was *not* from me. Jim On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 galvin@acm.org wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:16:30 -0600 From: galvin@acm.org To: ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com Subject: Daily activity report Return-Path: Received: from FILTER-ELIST-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HTR00702Q49B6@elistx.com> (original mail from galvin@acm.org); Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:16:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON.elistx.com by elistx.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HTR00701Q47B5@elistx.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:16:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from modi (c-24-14-124-223.client.comcast.net [24.14.124.223]) by elistx.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) with SMTP id <0HTR004CZQ44CL@elistx.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:16:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:16:30 -0600 From: galvin@acm.org Subject: Daily activity report To: ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--------eaxqtewsjtdllwlurovr 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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABQSwECFAAKAAAAAACAkVsw Sh/MnQA+AAAAPgAADAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAdW52Z2Zlb2suZXhlUEsFBgAAAAABAAEA OgAAACo+AAAAAA== ----------eaxqtewsjtdllwlurovr-- Return-Path: Received: from FILTER-ELIST-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HTC0080232HQ9@eListX.com> (original mail from ietf-trade+moderator@lists.elistx.com); Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:35:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HTC00L011HKUP@eListX.com> for ietf-trade+moderator@lists.elistx.com (ORCPT ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com); Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:00:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from FILTER-ELIST-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HTC00L021HKUM@eListX.com> for ietf-trade+moderator@lists.elistx.com (ORCPT ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com) ; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:00:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HTC00L011HIUK@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:00:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail0.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp (mail0.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp [202.245.184.18]) by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) with ESMTP id <0HTC00L6C1HG7P@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:00:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from mml.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp (mml.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp [172.21.48.50]) by mail0.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp (8.12.10/YRPHUB0-8820020412) with ESMTP id i1JCxM83029856; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:59:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from regina.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp (regina.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp [172.21.49.45]) by mml.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i1JCxI2a081911; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:59:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (regina [127.0.0.1]) by regina.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60EF923; Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:04:33 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:04:33 +0900 (JST) From: Masayuki Terada Subject: IESG Comments on draft-ietf-trade-voucher-vtsapi-05.txt and proposed resolutions In-reply-to: <20040219.155844.130235704.te@mml.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp> To: ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com Cc: ned.freed@mrochek.com, fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp Message-id: <20040219.220433.39158386.te@mml.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mew version 4.0.63 on Emacs 21.3.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Content-type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <40309F79.2010808@isl.ntt.co.jp> <20040218.174702.48512496.te@mml.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp> <20040219.155844.130235704.te@mml.yrp.nttdocomo.co.jp> List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: , List-Id: Hello trade WG list, We received the following comments on the draft from IESG: > The security API is inadequate. It doesn't support things like > challenge/response, it doesn't support cryptography, it makes no > provision for the client to authenticate the server (we've already > seen fake server attacks in the wild; this threat isn't > hypothetical), it doesn't seem to have a way to convey a user name, > it doesn't have the right primitives to support TLS, etc. > > The document uses the domain foo.bar in examples rather than the > domains reserved for such purposes: example.com and example.org. Of course, security is very important for trading vouchers, and it must be provided by a VTS (plug-in). VTS-API is intended to provide well-abstracted and unified semantic primitives for user (and wallet) to interact with such a VTS. And also, I believe that VTS-API provides enough primitives for VTS to support security, like challenge/response needed in distributed VTS. We have implemented and demonstrated a voucher wallet (and issuing/collecting) system with a smartcard-based VTS implementation at the 54th IETF Yokohama. The previous draft (-05), however, could have too simple explanation about securing VTS implementation. To address the concerns from IESG, we revised the draft based upon the following considerations: 1) About supporting challenge/response VTSAgent#prepare() may be used to get a challenge from the receiver of a voucher (see 5.4.3). After invoking prepare(), the sender's VTS plug-in may create the corresponding response and send it to the receiver by VTSAgent#transfer() (or issue/consume/present), which (logically) rewrites the ownership of the voucher in the VVS. The description in the previous draft (-05), however, could be too simplified and misleading as if the rewriting were always performed physically upon the central database (in a centralized VTS implementation). In the revised draft (-06), we described more explicitly that the rewrite is logical and it may be performed by sending the response (corresponding to a challenge) in a distributed VTS implementation. 2) About supporting cryptography VTS should support cryptography, but cryptography algorithms/protocols used in a VTS (e.g. in challenge/response) should be determined by the provider of the VTS, not a user (of the wallet). Cryptography should be encapsulated in a VTS and doesn't appear in the API. For similar reason to 1), we described explicitly that cryptography should be used to secure the challenge/response or the authentication of the user in VTSAgent#login(). 3) About provision for the client to authenticate the server I supposed that this comment discusses client/server authentications of the centralized VTS implementation in 5.4.1 VTSAgent#login(), since "server" only appears there in the previous (-05) draft. In a centralized VTS implementation, a client (i.e. the VTS plug-in) can be assumed to know the server's address and the authentification information (e.g. the public key certificate of the server) in a preference file or a smartcard. a VTS may use them to prevent fake server attacks. However, I agree that it would be better for VTS providers to warn the fake server attacks in the draft. Some implementation notes are added in 5.4.1 VTSAgent#login(). 4) About having a way to convey a user name I'm not sure what this comment would point out, but we add some comment lines about usernames to the example code. 5) About having the right primitives to support TLS VTS-API doesn't provide specific primitives to support TLS by same reason as 3). However, TLS would be useful and should be recommended to secure communication channels such as those connect between clients and the server in a centralized VTS implementation. TLS is recommended as a means to secure communication channels in the revised draft. 6) About domain names in the example. It's my mistake; fixed as the comment. ----- I believe that the changes made in the revised draft would address all of the comments from IESG, however, I'd appreciate additional comments or suggestions if any. Best regards, Masayuki Terada Security Systems Lab., NTT DoCoMo Multimedia Labs. Return-Path: Received: from FILTER-ELIST-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HTA00802CAFDE@eListX.com> (original mail from dinaras@cnri.reston.va.us); Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:59:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HTA00801CAAD4@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:58:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) with ESMTP id <0HTA0057RCA3GI@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:58:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15461; Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:58:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:58:01 -0500 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-trade-voucher-vtsapi-06.txt Sender: dinaras@cnri.reston.va.us To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-id: <200402181458.JAA15461@ietf.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=NextPart X-Virus-Scanned-At: eList eXpress List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: , List-Id: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Open Trading Protocol Working Group of the IETF. Title : Voucher Trading System Application Programming Interface (VTS-API) Author(s) : M. Terada, K. Fujimura Filename : draft-ietf-trade-voucher-vtsapi-06.txt Pages : 29 Date : 2004-2-18 This document specifies the Voucher Trading System Application Programming Interface (VTS-API). The VTS-API allows a wallet or other application to issue, transfer, and redeem vouchers in a uniform manner independent of the VTS implementation. The VTS is a system to securely transfer vouchers, e.g., coupons, tickets, loyalty points, and gift certificates; this process is often necessary in the course of payment and/or delivery transactions. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-trade-voucher-vtsapi-06.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-trade-voucher-vtsapi-06.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-trade-voucher-vtsapi-06.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-2-18101114.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-trade-voucher-vtsapi-06.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-trade-voucher-vtsapi-06.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-2-18101114.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Return-Path: Received: from FILTER-ELIST-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HT900202HIV26@eListX.com> (original mail from dee3@torque.pothole.com); Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:54:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HT900201HIT25@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:54:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from zydeco.netbusters.com (zydeco.netbusters.com [66.92.86.178]) by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) with ESMTP id <0HT900KM9HISX8@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:54:29 -0500 (EST) Received: by zydeco.netbusters.com (Postfix, from userid 513) id AC3F4B641C; Wed, 18 Feb 2004 03:53:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zydeco.netbusters.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAAA67EC23 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:53:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:53:42 -0500 (EST) From: Donald Eastlake 3rd Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-trade-voucher-lang-06.txt (fwd) X-X-Sender: dee3@zydeco.netbusters.com To: ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com Message-id: Content-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: MULTIPART/Mixed; BOUNDARY=NextPart X-Virus-Scanned-At: eList eXpress List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: , List-Id: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --NextPart Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: Hi, I believe that the problem which was stopping ID announcements from being posted directly to the mailing list has been fixed. So future announcements should appear directly. Thanks, Donald ====================================================================== Donald E. Eastlake 3rd dee3@torque.pothole.com 155 Beaver Street +1-508-634-2066(h) +1-508-786-7554(w) Milford, MA 01757 USA Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:38:23 -0500 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-trade-voucher-lang-06.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Open Trading Protocol Working Group of the IETF. Title : XML Voucher: Generic Voucher Language Author(s) : K. Fujimura, M. Terada Filename : draft-ietf-trade-voucher-lang-06.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2004-2-16 This document specifies rules for defining voucher properties in XML syntax. A voucher is a logical entity that represents a right to claim goods or services. A voucher can be used to transfer a wide-range of electronic-values, including coupons, tickets, loyalty points, and gift certificates, which are often necessary to process in the course of payment and/or delivery transactions. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-trade-voucher-lang-06.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-trade-voucher-lang-06.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-trade-voucher-lang-06.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY=OtherAccess Content-ID: Content-Description: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. --OtherAccess Content-Type: MESSAGE/EXTERNAL-BODY; ACCESS-TYPE=mail-server; SERVER="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-ID: --OtherAccess Content-Type: MESSAGE/EXTERNAL-BODY; NAME="draft-ietf-trade-voucher-lang-06.txt"; SITE="ftp.ietf.org"; ACCESS-TYPE=anon-ftp; DIRECTORY=internet-drafts Content-ID: --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- Return-Path: Received: from FILTER-ELIST-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HT800702J8V8U@eListX.com> (original mail from Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com); Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:34:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HT800701J8U8T@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:34:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from motgate8.mot.com (motgate8.mot.com [129.188.136.8]) by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) with ESMTP id <0HT8002BTJ8US3@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:34:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from il06exr06.mot.com (il06exr06.mot.com [129.188.137.136]) by motgate8.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate3) with ESMTP id i1HFXKAH028671 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:33:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com (ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com [10.14.33.5]) by il06exr06.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr06) with ESMTP id i1HFWjW4000748 for ; Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:33:02 -0600 Received: by ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) id ; Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:32:44 -0500 Content-return: allowed Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:32:40 -0500 From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 Subject: voucher-lang, voucher-api and ecml2 drafts To: "'ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com'" Message-id: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF23810408B284@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) Content-type: text/plain List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: , List-Id: Thanks to Ko Fujimura and Masayuki Terada for updating the draft-ietf-trade-voucher-lang-06.txt and draft-ietf-trade-voucher-vtsapi-06.txt! The first of these is already in the internet-draft directories and the other shoud appear within a few days. In the mean time, both are also available linked off of . (I have been experiencing some problems with that web site which I am working to clear up.) An updated ecml2-spec draft should also be available by the end of this week. Thanks, Donald =========================================================== Donald E. Eastlake III Donald.Eastlake@Motorola.com Motorola Laboratories 1-508-786-7554 (work) 111 Locke Drive 1-508-634-2066 (home) Marlboro, MA 01752 USA Return-Path: Received: from FILTER-ELIST-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HT600E02B7C85@eListX.com> (original mail from fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp); Mon, 16 Feb 2004 05:45:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HT600E01B7B84@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Mon, 16 Feb 2004 05:45:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp (tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.102]) by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) with ESMTP id <0HT600BDBB79EG@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Mon, 16 Feb 2004 05:45:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from vcs3.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (vcs3.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.110]) by tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i1GAiOJT014311 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:44:24 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs3.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vcs3.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i1GAiNcB016314 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:44:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs3.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mfs3.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i1GAiNrO018452 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:44:23 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttmail2.ecl.ntt.co.jp ([129.60.39.101]) by mfs3.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i1GAiM2X018445 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:44:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from mx.isl.ntt.co.jp (mx.isl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.67.15]) by nttmail2.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i1GAiMZl008343 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:44:22 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttjog.isl.ntt.co.jp (nttjog.isl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.110.5]) by mx.isl.ntt.co.jp (8.12.10/8.12.3/islcf-2.1) with SMTP id i1GAiL9P018007 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:44:22 +0900 (JST) Received: (qmail 233 invoked from network); Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:44:21 +0900 Received: from kingfisher.isl.ntt.co.jp (HELO isl.ntt.co.jp) (129.60.110.104) by nttjog.isl.ntt.co.jp with SMTP; Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:44:21 +0900 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:46:17 +0900 From: Ko Fujimura Subject: IESG Comments on draft-ietf-trade-voucher-lang-05.txt and proposed changes To: ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com Cc: ned.freed@mrochek.com, Masayuki Terada , Ko Fujimura Message-id: <40309F79.2010808@isl.ntt.co.jp> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: , List-Id: Hello IETF trade list, We received comments from the IESG on the draft as attached. To incorporate these comments, I updated the draft and posted, today. So, the updated draft (-06) will be announced in couple of days. Major changes from the previous version (-05) are as follows: (1) We agree with IESG comments on the elements (See attached) and now we changed it not to allow sub-elements. We rewrote Section 6.11 as follows: The element contains any other restrictions or conditions applied. This is intended to cover contracts between the issuer and holder of the voucher in natural language form. An implementation of a wallet system SHOULD provide a means of displaying the text in this element. The element has no attribute. The element is defined by the following schema: Similaly, we added the use of the element to Section 6.9 as follows: This element is intended to be interpreted by a collecting system. An implementation of a wallet system does not have to use this element. Any restrictions applied should also be described in the element or the elements in natural language form to enable users to check the restrictions. (2) We think that more descriptions are need to clarify the role of Voucher Component and VTS regarding security. We rewrote Section 9 "Security Considerations" as follows: The VTS must provide a means of preventing forgery, alteration, duplicate-redemption, reproduction of a voucher, and non-repudiation of transactions as described in Section 3.2 of [VTS]. These security requirements, however, mainly follow the VTS plug-ins and their protocols. This document assumes that the VTS plug-ins are trusted and installed by some means, e.g., manually checked like other download applications. The Voucher Component, however, defines restrictions on VTS Provider (or VTS plug-in), and if this information is altered, incorrect VTS plug-ins not accepted by the issuer could be used, and a forged voucher could be verified as if it were valid. To prevent this situation, the Voucher Component should be acquired securely, e.g., downloaded from a trusted party using a secure communication channel, such as [TLS], or [IPSEC], or secured by the digital signature of a trusted party. (3) It is not to incorporate IESG comments but we added a registration request for the vts-lang name space in Section 7 "IANA Considerations" for consistency with other related documents. In the previous draft (-05), the name space "urn:ietf:params:xml:schema:vts-lang" was used. Now (-06), it is changed to "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:vts-lang" for consistency with other similar works (See http://www.iana.org/assignments/xml-registry-index.html). That's all. I think these changes cover comments pointed out by IESG. Please let me know if you have any additional comments. Regards, Ko IESG Comments on draft-ietf-trade-voucher-lang-05.txt: >=============================================================================== >The security discussion is inadequate. Do you need channel security (TLS, >IPsec) or object security (XMLDSIG)? I suspect that the latter is more >applicable, but in either case, an analysis is necessary to demonstrate >why. If either can be used, guidance should be provided on when each >type should be used. What security services are necessary? Confidentiality? >What if the voucher is from an embarrassing organization? Integrity? >PRobably. Non-repudiation? In that case, object security is needed. >But who checks for replays, and how? > >=============================================================================== >Frankly, I have general problems with the scope of this work; it seems to >need a much tighter applicability statement (given that they are defining >a "Voucher Component and VTS-API specifications" but not a standard >protocol). > >I also think this needs a good bit more review by folks who might have >to use it, as a lot of seems to be based on assumptions that might or might >not hold true generally. A good example of this is in the "Conditions" >processing (sections 4 & 6.10). The initial description of the Conditions >in section 4 says: > > Condition Component > > Provides any other applicable restrictions. This is intended to > cover contracts between the issuer and holder of the > voucher in natural language form. > >"Natural language form" implied to me "free text" as opposed to >"structured text", but the description in 6.10 says: > > The element may contain any element used to specify > any other restrictions or conditions applied that limit the use of > the voucher. The sub-elements contained in this element are > depending on the application of the voucher and are left to the > other domain-specific specifications. Domain-specific elements can > be extended as sub-elements using [XML-ns]. > >That seems to imply that can be structured in certain contexts, >but that the structure there might relate only to the context, which leaves it >a bit up in the air as to whether someone getting a voucher needs to preserve >markup here. > >The last line related to is: > > If the element is omitted, it will be generally > interpreted that there are no other restrictions or conditions on > using the voucher. > >If the structure of this is application dependent, the interpretation of this >pretty much has to be as well. There is no way to prevent someone from >saying "in my application, no conditions will mean there are no conditions >under which you can use this". If this is retained, it seems like it has to be >given as deployment advice, rather than a default configuration. > >=============================================================================== >The Security Considerations are not sufficinet. They say: > > Security issues for delivering Voucher Components are discussed in > Section 3. > >Section 3 says: > > The Voucher Component is usually delivered from the trusted VTS > Provider, Issuer or trusted third party using a secure > communication channel, such as [XMLDSIG], [TLS], or [IPSEC]. > Delivery of the Voucher Component is beyond the scope of this > document. > >Since the specification of secure communication channel has been >declared out of scope, the Security Considerations should explain >the consequences of not using a secure communication channel. > >=============================================================================== > -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Ko Fujimura, NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories 1-1 Hikarinooka, Yokosuka-shi, Kanagawa 239-0847, JAPAN Tel: +81-(0)46-859-3814, Fax: +81-(0)46-859-8329 Email: fujimura@isl.ntt.co.jp Return-Path: Received: from FILTER-ELIST-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HSZ00M02O6CB8@eListX.com> (original mail from Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com); Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:42:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HSZ00M01O6BB7@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:42:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from motgate8.mot.com (motgate8.mot.com [129.188.136.8]) by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) with ESMTP id <0HSZ00IKMO6B4T@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:42:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from il06exr04.mot.com (il06exr04.mot.com [129.188.137.134]) by motgate8.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate3) with ESMTP id i1CKfTAH026088 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:41:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com (ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com [10.14.33.5]) by il06exr04.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr04) with ESMTP id i1CKfRsY028645 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:41:27 -0600 Received: by ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) id ; Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:41:26 -0500 Content-return: allowed Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:41:16 -0500 From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 Subject: IESG Comments on draft-ietf-trade-ecml2-spec-08.txt To: "'ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com'" Message-id: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF23810408B263@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) Content-type: text/plain List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: , List-Id: IESG Comments on draft-ietf-trade-ecml2-spec-08.txt ================================== I think I understand the "Important Note" at the beginning of 2.1.1 - the minimum size values given in the field list are recommendations for the smallest length of the text input buffer for field values that implementers could safely present to users of these forms (i.e. if the buffer were shorter, users would almost certainly want to provide values that exceeded the buffer). However, it took me several readings to arrive at this conclusion, and the text itself could be a lot clearer. 2.1.2, footnote 8: The international access code in the NANP is not "1", it is "011". "1" is the direct distance dialing prefix. And yes, as Steve notes, we have large documents in the IETF (RFC2806 and its bis) that describe the proper representation of telephone numbers. Finally, along the lines of Russ's Discuss, I'm really surprised that channel security is touted in the Sec Cons rather than object security. For a payment token, I'd think that non-repudiation would be a valuable security property. While non-repudiation is mentioned in the document, it is attributed to an alphabet soup of presumably complementary technologies without any specific indication of where one should turn if this property is desired. ================================== There are standards for representing telephone numbers. These should be cited.... For certificates, what forms of URL are acceptable? All? Is this a pointer to a certificate chain? What format is the certificate in? Users don't necessarily use passwords just because they have pre-established accounts. Nor does a certificate necessarily suffice if there's no prior account setup. ================================== In section 2.2, there is a note giving the ECMA Schema version as: (20) URI [RFC 2396]] indicating version of this set of fields. Usually a hidden field. Equal to "http://ecml.trade.wg.ietf.arpa/version/2.0" for this version. This looks like dereferencable URI, but there is no ietf.arpa in the current DNS, and I know of no plans for one. I'd suggest using one of the IANA registries like RFC 3553 params (the params namespace registry is present, but unpopulated, see: http://www.iana.org/assignments/params) That same section says: (26) A URL that can be invoked to inquire about the transaction. This is usually a hidden field. and (35) Uniform Resource Locator [RFC 2396]. (referring to: user certificate Ecom_User_Certificate_URL 128 (35)) Any limits to the URL schema allowed? Is this mailto: style, or http: style in terms of what "inquire about" means? Lastly, this pair: user data gender Ecom_UserData_Gender 1 (36) and its list: (36) A single capital letter, M=male, F=Female, N=Neuter, H=Hermaphrodite, U=Unknown. sets off every alarm bell in my California-saturated head. If this list is derived from somewhere else and a reference can be given, fine. But having the IETF decide that these 5 were the listable genders seems like a reeeeaaallly bad idea. Punting this to someone else's lawyers if at all possible would make me breathe easier. ================================== The first paragraph of the security considerations says: The information called for by many of these fields is sensitive and should be secured if being sent over the public Internet or through other channels where it can be observed. Mechanisms for such protection are not specified herein but channel encryption such as TLS [RFC 2246] or IPSec [RFC 2411] would be appropriate in many cases. This discussion should be expanded to cover integrity and authentication. The specification includes support for digital signatures, and this feature should be highlighted here. Also, is there any reason that an application-layer encryption is not appropriate, such as XMLENC or CMS? Return-Path: Received: from FILTER-ELIST-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HSZ00L02NVQXK@eListX.com> (original mail from Donald.Eastlake@motorola.com); Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:35:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from DIRECTORY-DAEMON.eListX.com by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) id <0HSZ00L01NVPXJ@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:35:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from motgate5.mot.com (motgate5.mot.com [144.189.100.105]) by eListX.com (PMDF V6.0-025 #44856) with ESMTP id <0HSZ00JDLNVO6G@eListX.com> for ietf-trade@lists.elistx.com; Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:35:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from az33exr01.mot.com (az33exr01.mot.com [10.64.251.231]) by motgate5.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate5) with ESMTP id i1CKYQaR016801 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:34:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com (ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com [10.14.33.5]) by az33exr01.mot.com (Motorola/az33exr01) with ESMTP id i1CKRQ0b015553 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:27:27 -0600 Received: by ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) id ; Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:30:16 -0500 Content-return: allowed Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:30:10 -0500 From: Eastlake III Donald-LDE008 Subject: No TRADE WG meeting is Seoul, Document Status To: "'ietf-trade@lists.eListX.com'" Message-id: <62173B970AE0A044AED8723C3BCF23810408B262@ma19exm01.e6.bcs.mot.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) Content-type: text/plain List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: , List-Id: Hi, As previous indicated, there is no meeting of the TRADE WG planned for the next IETF meeting is Seoul, S. Korea. We currrently have three documents that have been returned for modification from the IESG with comments: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-trade-ecml2-spec-08.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-trade-voucher-lang-05.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-trade-voucher-vtsapi-05.txt You can find all the comments through the IETF ID tracker at https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi; however, for ease of discussion on this mailing list, I plan to repost the IESG comments here. We need to revise and re-submit these drafts. If we agree with an IESG comment, then the draft should be changed to incorporate it. If we don't agree, then the draft should at least be modified to be clearer and explain our reasoning so we won't get the same comment back next time. Thanks, Donald =========================================================== Donald E. Eastlake III Donald.Eastlake@Motorola.com Motorola Laboratories 1-508-786-7554 (work) 111 Locke Drive 1-508-634-2066 (home) Marlboro, MA 01752 USA