From nobody Sat Nov 1 06:03:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22581A87AF for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 06:03:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EYszWoIfJxjO for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 06:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25FEF1A8729 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 06:03:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=16110; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1414846983; x=1416056583; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=lTgzvEB0AdtDp+igU41eKb1oSqoXY1my8mTRffbJ87k=; b=UrP1l6jznhsv+fLLhga6Dt80LsiUE+3ruc4/wpTiAnR3hfain5B/zyNx vuA5KB+/CGU/H6X7EUHaRIvGXOr1kKSSTOYomti9FTL8eXJHh3DU/n6XJ hBfNy0OElXnWwtYl1VKkBKy6jhbAEp3JPPD3krNHOc9wMXoZszEMwsNOA Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AiAFAFnZVFStJV2S/2dsb2JhbABcgkhGVFgEzS8BCYdNAoEVFgEBAQEBcguEAgEBAQQBAQFrGwIBCBEDAQIoByEGCxQJCAIEE4gsAxINwmINhkABAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBFQSOVoIpDQsGhEUFizaGYolUghGBMYNNimKGbYN4bIFIgQMBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,295,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="365324338" Received: from rcdn-core-10.cisco.com ([173.37.93.146]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 01 Nov 2014 13:03:01 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com [173.37.183.75]) by rcdn-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA1D313x030229 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 13:03:01 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.15.139]) by xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([173.37.183.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 08:03:01 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: "tram@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [tram] STUN-bis adoption call Thread-Index: AQHP9dQpvU0/6VkLB0aiooUjjAix4Q== Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 13:03:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <544A6085.70707@akamai.com> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A2834F0ED@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> <544E547C.20903@akamai.com> <5452B3AB.1080300@akamai.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.3.140616 x-originating-ip: [10.65.74.201] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D07AD92B17A40rmohanrciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/tXGYJYTzS_fZwy3ToB-0aVvP5t8 Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis adoption call X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2014 13:03:06 -0000 --_000_D07AD92B17A40rmohanrciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 I support adoption of the document as WG draft. From: Oleg Moskalenko > Date: Friday, 31 October 2014 10:07 pm To: "Pal Martinsen (palmarti)" > Cc: "tram@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis adoption call +1 On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Pal Martinsen (palmarti) > wrote: +1 to adoption. .-. P=E5l-Erik On 30 Oct 2014, at 22:54, Brandon Williams > wrote: Thanks for that clarification on intent. It allows me to give an unambiguous +1 on adoption --Brandon On 10/29/2014 02:21 AM, Gonzalo Salgueiro (gsalguei) wrote: Brandon - You raise a valid point that bears some clarification. For the purposes of= WG adoption, let's focus on agreeing to the list of items we want to tackl= e. Once we have a WG draft, we can iterate on the actual text to ensure we= have text that is representative of WG consensus. Cheers, Gonzalo On Oct 27, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Brandon Williams > wrote: On 10/24/2014 11:10 PM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: Regarding fragmentation (item 5) ... I don't see any substantive changes. I don't see anything about this in appendix B.2, so I don't think I'm missing anything. There were discussions about fragmentation support in the list sometime bac= k but without any conclusions. Please provide more details. My primary point is that improved guidance on fragmentation and message siz= es is one of the things on the list of open items and it doesn't appear tha= t any changes have been made yet. I mostly wanted to confirm that there isn= 't something about this already in the document that I'm not seeing. --Brandon -- Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer Emerging Products Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc. _______________________________________________ tram mailing list tram@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram -- Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer Emerging Products Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc. _______________________________________________ tram mailing list tram@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram _______________________________________________ tram mailing list tram@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram --_000_D07AD92B17A40rmohanrciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <88A1C7B9F109A042AD5807F5BAF3D4D4@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+1

I support adoption of the document as WG draft.

From: Oleg Moskalenko <mom040267@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, 31 October 2014 10:07= pm
To: "Pal Martinsen (palmarti)&= quot; <palmarti@cisco.com><= br> Cc: "tram@ietf.org" <tram@i= etf.org>
Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis adopti= on call

+1

On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Pal Martinsen (= palmarti) <palmarti@cisco.com> wrote:
+1 to adoption.

.-.
P=E5l-Erik

On 30 Oct 2014, at 22:54, Brandon Williams <brandon.williams@akamai.com&g= t; wrote:

Thanks for that clarification on intent.

It allows me to give an unambiguous

+1 on adoption

--Brandon

On 10/29/2014 02:21 AM, Gonzalo Salgueiro (gsalguei) wrote:
Brandon -

You raise a valid point that bears some clarification.  For the purpos= es of WG adoption, let's focus on agreeing to the list of items we want to = tackle.  Once we have a WG draft, we can iterate on the actual text to= ensure we have text that is representative of WG consensus.

Cheers,

Gonzalo




On Oct 27, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Brandon Williams &l= t;brandon.= williams@akamai.com> wrote:

On 10/24/2014 11:10 PM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote:
Regarding fragmentation (item 5) ... I don't see = any substantive changes. I
don't see anything about this in appendix B.2, so= I don't think I'm missing
anything.
There were discussions about fragmentation support in the list sometime bac= k but without any conclusions.
Please provide more details.


My primary point is that improved guidance on fragmentation and message siz= es is one of the things on the list of open items and it doesn't appear tha= t any changes have been made yet. I mostly wanted to confirm that there isn= 't something about this already in the document that I'm not seeing.

--Brandon

--
Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer
Emerging Products Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc.

_______________________________________________
tram mailing list
tram@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram


-- 
Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer
Emerging Products Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc.

________________________= _______________________
tram mailing list
tram@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram


_______________________________________________
tram mailing list
tram@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram


 --_000_D07AD92B17A40rmohanrciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Nov 3 07:31:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2CFC1A0273 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 07:31:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 66-EX79wvb5t for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 07:30:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2881A1A010D for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 07:30:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2050; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415028659; x=1416238259; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=mvzwpzQyOiLMr6IXUD16CO5CwWVNhXVjCBnj0RK+ZlE=; b=Ps2/BYj9ZtrD7X/bt00WBtKvRK5ZHLZ3QXLOKzKKERJfIgCnfPM03/B9 bBLWEz8ftvgDXvTXXcittvVzWJVlNhKXmc/VaW72GkmTahC1Kx+Dqj2d+ lkdsGONsH6H47EAGB0NUxTEpCmt6E7DJOFoLB4vug75KqQDaOXMqgTvlY Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhcFAJeeV1StJA2D/2dsb2JhbABcgw5UWATNfAqHTQKBIhYBAQEBAX2EAwEBBAEBATc0GwIBCBgeECcLJQIEARKIQQ3HcAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEVBJEXhEsFkhqLZ4Exg02RUoN4bIFIgQMBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,308,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="92861326" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Nov 2014 15:30:59 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x01.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x01.cisco.com [173.36.12.75]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA3FUwPT021215 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Nov 2014 15:30:58 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x07.cisco.com ([169.254.7.56]) by xhc-aln-x01.cisco.com ([173.36.12.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 09:30:58 -0600 From: "Prashanth Patil (praspati)" To: Brandon Williams , "tram@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [tram] STUN-bis adoption call Thread-Index: AQHP93sdTcU5161TNE+I4HDaX4ujEQ== Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 15:30:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <544A6085.70707@akamai.com> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A2834F0ED@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> <544E547C.20903@akamai.com> <5452B3AB.1080300@akamai.com> In-Reply-To: <5452B3AB.1080300@akamai.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.5.141003 x-originating-ip: [10.65.76.65] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <4273BFA26A0B1C4588E298BED2F494B2@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/Zv6OwEfqbFgPodCLwE4cEGgFvpU Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis adoption call X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 15:31:01 -0000 +1 on adoption. -Prashanth On 10/31/14 3:24 AM, "Brandon Williams" wrote: >Thanks for that clarification on intent. > >It allows me to give an unambiguous > >+1 on adoption > >--Brandon > >On 10/29/2014 02:21 AM, Gonzalo Salgueiro (gsalguei) wrote: >> Brandon - >> >> You raise a valid point that bears some clarification. For the >>purposes of WG adoption, let's focus on agreeing to the list of items we >>want to tackle. Once we have a WG draft, we can iterate on the actual >>text to ensure we have text that is representative of WG consensus. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Gonzalo >> >> >> >>> On Oct 27, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Brandon Williams >>> wrote: >>> >>> On 10/24/2014 11:10 PM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: >>>>> Regarding fragmentation (item 5) ... I don't see any substantive >>>>>changes. I >>>>>> don't see anything about this in appendix B.2, so I don't think I'm >>>>>>missing >>>>>> anything. >>>> There were discussions about fragmentation support in the list >>>>sometime back but without any conclusions. >>>> Please provide more details. >>>> >>> >>> My primary point is that improved guidance on fragmentation and >>>message sizes is one of the things on the list of open items and it >>>doesn't appear that any changes have been made yet. I mostly wanted to >>>confirm that there isn't something about this already in the document >>>that I'm not seeing. >>> >>> --Brandon >>> >>> -- >>> Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer >>> Emerging Products Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tram mailing list >>> tram@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram >> > >--=20 >Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer >Emerging Products Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc. > >_______________________________________________ >tram mailing list >tram@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram From nobody Mon Nov 3 21:47:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 283811A88BA for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 21:47:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.094 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.094 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hGaf-c7aKBpj for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 21:47:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CF6B1A88B8 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 21:47:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=11454; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415080025; x=1416289625; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=yIUA3I/+bPSTrfOlUb5gpJ6/5JAVNyOOmTsrAWPIuAk=; b=DceQaOoRtXpFnhPJjxw2U67p5vKW/my4dVUmA28k3pz0B58JlnFqwECC 1Pp9uVoFpZTel/q4DjFOlkjQmojBZDBwhT5IPDCsepwYkOQiPrnhLhZ3K i6YqgBu9jQkruEPOzQ3Ce5tcLrdL9e+DbrQoP8MVskYaaISrKzAfe9Bqr g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: An0GAC9nWFStJV2b/2dsb2JhbABcgkhGVFgEgwK7No4tgXGHTQIcgQoWAQEBAQF9hAIBAQEEHQYKXAIBCA4DBAEBCx0DAgICMBQJCAIEARIIiDkNtj6VEwEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAReQLhEBHxYhAQaCcTaBHgWSGoRPiEk9gxCNSYQJggAegVpsgQ85gQMBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,311,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="369350286" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Nov 2014 05:47:04 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com [173.37.183.78]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA45l4wF019282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Nov 2014 05:47:04 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.15.250]) by xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([fe80::200:5efe:173.37.183.34%12]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 23:47:04 -0600 From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" To: Simon Perreault , "tram@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [tram] STUN-bis adoption call Thread-Index: AQHP74kujxIWxKPPY0GL4Xv+jnj0F5xQBdww Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 05:47:03 +0000 Message-ID: <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A28354829@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.65.48.139] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A28354829xmbrcdx10ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/_5ShIcTrnwAmSxgfjnvlRXsEAP8 Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis adoption call X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." 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FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cbm3AQ842EgR for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:11:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-x229.google.com (mail-vc0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A21FD1A88DF for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:11:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id hy4so4926173vcb.14 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:11:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=jTpBr7U11geH7vOF8SdHundQnW01zwV6QKunWP/GZlc=; b=DrTBmaCxyryIv3DKidM7T2RiVQdb/cLFZOvT4cz/jP5nBByIdDR6fb9YLVpfUf14AG 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10.220.195.196 with SMTP id ed4mr4821334vcb.65.1415758318810; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:11:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.237.130 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:11:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20141002070839.18899.72936.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A2833A171@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> From: Justin Uberti Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:11:38 -0800 Message-ID: To: "Olle E. Johansson" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1c324ae58e005079feb18 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/ZpqHCmaII9xr2ZJgOUm0Nv-RH_A Cc: Simon Perreault , Oleg Moskalenko , "tram@ietf.org" , "Tirumaleswar Reddy \(tireddy\)" , Peter Thatcher Subject: Re: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-turn-third-party-authz-05.txt X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 02:12:05 -0000 --001a11c1c324ae58e005079feb18 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 The next thing we need to do is to make a request to W3C to add the necessary field to carry the access token into the RTCIceServer structure, so that we can get this wired up end-to-end in WebRTC browsers. On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Olle E. Johansson wrote: > > On 14 Oct 2014, at 16:19, Simon Perreault wrote: > > +1! > > Great work Oleg! +pi ! > > /O > > Simon > > On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 6:13 AM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) < > tireddy@cisco.com> wrote: > >> Awesome. >> >> >> >> -Tiru >> >> >> >> *From:* tram [mailto:tram-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Oleg >> Moskalenko >> *Sent:* Monday, October 13, 2014 3:12 PM >> *To:* tram@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [tram] I-D Action: >> draft-ietf-tram-turn-third-party-authz-05.txt >> >> >> >> The third-party authorization option has been implemented in Coturn: >> >> https://code.google.com/p/coturn/ >> >> Oleg >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:18 AM, Oleg Moskalenko >> wrote: >> >> I agree with the changes. >> >> Thanks >> Oleg >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tram mailing list >> tram@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram >> >> > _______________________________________________ > tram mailing list > tram@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram > > > > _______________________________________________ > tram mailing list > tram@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram > > --001a11c1c324ae58e005079feb18 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The next thing we need to do is to make a request to W3C t= o add the necessary field to carry the access token into the RTCIceServer s= tructure, so that we can get this wired up end-to-end in WebRTC browsers.

On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Olle E. Johansson <= oej@edvina.net><= /span> wrote:

On 14 Oct 2014, at 16:19, Simon Perreault <sperreault@jive.com&= gt; wrote:

+1!

=
Great work Oleg! +pi !

/O

<= blockquote type=3D"cite">
Simon

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 6:1= 3 AM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) <tireddy@cisco.com> wrote= :

Awesome.

=C2= =A0

-Tir= u

=C2=A0

From: tram [mailto:t= ram-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Oleg Moskalenko
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 3:12 PM
To: tram@ietf.org=
Subject: Re: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-turn-third-party-aut= hz-05.txt

=C2=A0

The third-party = authorization option has been implemented in Coturn:

https://cod= e.google.com/p/coturn/

Oleg<= /u>

=C2=A0

On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:18 AM, Oleg Moskalenk= o <mom040267@gm= ail.com> wrote:

I agree with the= changes.

Thanks
Oleg

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
tram mailing list
tram@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram


_______________________________________________
tram mailing list
tram@ietf.org
https://= www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram

_______________________________________________
tram mailing list
tram@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram


--001a11c1c324ae58e005079feb18-- From nobody Tue Nov 11 18:21:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71B731A90C8 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:21:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IWZ6cA55BurD for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-f169.google.com (mail-lb0-f169.google.com [209.85.217.169]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0D7F1A911A for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:21:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f169.google.com with SMTP id 10so8616389lbg.14 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:21:34 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=imeUsR9GFjEE7cVnouSz8ghK9cZydBL6IFnWoBT9pkw=; b=VqUVhCeLAod+MsdHKeJOq9QWS1O7KDJ4/u0mJaF+ZLWUFxGFkD3CyG51qMpW4HLRHT ryH/yD77OkhgWTtbsZEV8YJXYKGrucDqBfYdKQJ5r2cg1motv3LlkjESTj/G17kTSHv/ EUODbigCQcGlIB+U9SBhqWR8jom54CuaUGWdywaF7Hp4ho38jgR8/zIr+pgKvsZnEa2q G6kB9F0VgMfjK0bDsrQrJDK+UWNCmWtVwcxz/aP+qX4Vd4ROeKKXDDwPe2TUMVuJJYLs FIyEj/y2/s1ZX8vTT9SJ6lU2Bg6QNzI/Y6c4IIes5ec1y7ERPMii2RddojKwe/OjCn9n r5FA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkWgQQQW6u233Th5r6QkGz8a4BFWwDErKAZIe1SuCsGYWGwCC5s6JjQo4AGmsNclyjah7gT MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.27.2 with SMTP id p2mr2526237lag.19.1415758894515; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:21:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.25.84.135 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:21:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20141002070839.18899.72936.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A2833A171@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 16:21:34 -1000 Message-ID: From: Simon Perreault To: Justin Uberti Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0158c200feddac0507a00d88 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/D7gHYsvmV9TcqEz2JMZriCWdcws Cc: Oleg Moskalenko , "Olle E. Johansson" , "tram@ietf.org" , "Tirumaleswar Reddy \(tireddy\)" , Peter Thatcher Subject: Re: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-turn-third-party-authz-05.txt X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 02:21:39 -0000 --089e0158c200feddac0507a00d88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Justin Uberti wrote: > The next thing we need to do is to make a request to W3C to add the > necessary field to carry the access token into the RTCIceServer structure, > so that we can get this wired up end-to-end in WebRTC browsers. Are you volunteering to make this request? Or is anyone else willing to do it? Thanks, Simon --089e0158c200feddac0507a00d88 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Justin Uberti <juberti@google.com>= ; wrote:
The next thing we need to= do is to make a request to W3C to add the necessary field to carry the acc= ess token into the RTCIceServer structure, so that we can get this wired up= end-to-end in WebRTC browsers.

Are you volunteering = to make this request? Or is anyone else willing to do it?

Thanks,
Simon
--089e0158c200feddac0507a00d88-- From nobody Tue Nov 11 23:50:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 972441A6FE7 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 23:50:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.972 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.972 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JVJ9ZNem5d7f for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 23:50:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-x22b.google.com (mail-vc0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7B981A802B for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 23:50:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vc0-f171.google.com with SMTP id id10so1829414vcb.16 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 23:50:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=8kweYBjW6CxfBL/4/11ggH+hIzFfpGjZltIal61YGcc=; b=NgX6T+eu/RKH/gKh2tmMH2gv8DRjP2lAYPGd/4Yv9Jny8WP7sKAyLCa3CdU85Sta7R wOMUmjJGAc6JQc309VHjokjbA4UrPSH0Xj7YiLP0fQJdbgdE8s3A035eTAdP7s47HjJd 98h7xSp1mFIuVtXDiSlQxUVASDOFlfPh4j1Q/QX4VB7P/GvvqadTwP96tcPLZrmEjZM8 m/Sd/BqXcYjPCzgpQNkYrSN6hWnGoL/ru4eM/SO9Oh7HtF2toBQyKWvRZLHlJpw/ii75 o9KwtdjxWu+0LP3t+GXy8645vZjA37Y9RKqwyMQuVLTaRKTULtWyua0oP8xCEotVDaPu kh0A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=8kweYBjW6CxfBL/4/11ggH+hIzFfpGjZltIal61YGcc=; b=Tf5ymSzR8sQo304j4GlnQYSCSAC9JvCMAPyi3DBHc3V1HQAjeHW9NemSh3aNAU56gZ wTUJmJwCoNto4mROBQlLD8jcO73mejuBwghSWX4Qyw5G6Bg5rRBcMQbDEbiwSIOyA1L/ c4Smsh3oW2og1gLfXAR5o55DBA9S+vkrDCo5qjzmvcV2yzVAETQ0HlnBs2E9zhRxKApP AUujxz4iQO1pxTCS94phNXZK2ulW1Hp+QmtC8yIFJ+dCRWeYw9SlSFALRIHrwelH1rJI 1uXkI2HSIYstUm0palgY3hWZ6DOCb1AJ9MxaaLMOW6+HJYmh5qXBqZXvsSc4EWcIR47j ADGA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl6gJPdLps9XpaRIrc754DLzd8dHKQQiv/i0A6E/m+DQcZVzKpsQ0i/OfcL0TVZ0o9siTyJ X-Received: by 10.220.168.193 with SMTP id v1mr12065111vcy.39.1415778620726; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 23:50:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.237.130 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 23:50:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20141002070839.18899.72936.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A2833A171@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> From: Justin Uberti Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 23:50:00 -0800 Message-ID: To: Simon Perreault Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d450ec5052d0507a4a5a2 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/32sw6IXWCd9QAcOrDjysYFWr1G8 Cc: Oleg Moskalenko , "Olle E. Johansson" , "tram@ietf.org" , "Tirumaleswar Reddy \(tireddy\)" , Peter Thatcher Subject: Re: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-turn-third-party-authz-05.txt X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 07:50:23 -0000 --047d7b5d450ec5052d0507a4a5a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I have a pile of tweaks to make to the W3C spec, but once I clear those out I can take this on. On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 6:21 PM, Simon Perreault wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Justin Uberti wrote: > >> The next thing we need to do is to make a request to W3C to add the >> necessary field to carry the access token into the RTCIceServer structure, >> so that we can get this wired up end-to-end in WebRTC browsers. > > > Are you volunteering to make this request? Or is anyone else willing to do > it? > > Thanks, > Simon > --047d7b5d450ec5052d0507a4a5a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have a pile of tweaks to make to the W3C spec, but once = I clear those out I can take this on.

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 6:21 PM, Simon Perreault = <sperreault@jive.com> wrote:

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Justin Uberti <jub= erti@google.com> wrote:
The= next thing we need to do is to make a request to W3C to add the necessary = field to carry the access token into the RTCIceServer structure, so that we= can get this wired up end-to-end in WebRTC browsers.
Are you volunteering to make this request? Or is anyone else willin= g to do it?

Thanks,
Simon

--047d7b5d450ec5052d0507a4a5a2-- From nobody Wed Nov 12 13:30:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA6D31AD2D9 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 13:30:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id slan9jP8F18J for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 13:30:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx11.unify.com (mx11.unify.com [62.134.46.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D7A61A9169 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 13:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from MCHP01HTC.global-ad.net (unknown [172.29.42.234]) by mx11.unify.com (Server) with ESMTP id 843C81EB8512 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 22:29:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from MCHP04MSX.global-ad.net ([169.254.1.125]) by MCHP01HTC.global-ad.net ([172.29.42.234]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 22:29:47 +0100 From: "Hutton, Andrew" To: "tram@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: origin-02 - Security considerations. Thread-Index: AQHP8iXRxN6yr9nGYE24HH0y2sxbzJxdluDw Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:29:46 +0000 Message-ID: <9F33F40F6F2CD847824537F3C4E37DDF1E60A759@MCHP04MSX.global-ad.net> References: <20141027203654.26735.33855.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20141027203654.26735.33855.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.29.42.225] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/YdJUs6PCmw7hc-9WzCDPVw8Gfic Subject: [tram] origin-02 - Security considerations. X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:30:35 -0000 The recent update to the security considerations of draft-ietf-tram-stun-or= igin-02 states: "The particular STUN and TURN servers used are selected by the real-time co= mmunications service provider (i.e. the web provider for WebRTC or the SIP = or XMPP service provider)" At least in the case of WebRTC I don't think this is necessarily true given= the discovery mechanisms under discussion and we may also need to take in = to account the turn proxy proposed in draft-schwartz-rtcweb-return-03 assum= ing it is adopted. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: 27 October 2014 10:37 > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: tram@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-stun-origin-02.txt >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the TURN Revised and Modernized Working > Group of the IETF. >=20 > Title : An Origin Attribute for the STUN Protocol > Authors : Alan Johnston > Justin Uberti > John Yoakum > Kundan Singh > Filename : draft-ietf-tram-stun-origin-02.txt > Pages : 13 > Date : 2014-10-27 >=20 > Abstract: > STUN, or Session Traversal Utilities for NAT, is a protocol used to > assist other protocols traverse Network Address Translators or NATs. > STUN, and STUN extensions such as TURN, or Traversal Using Relays > around NAT, and ICE, Interactive Communications Establishment, have > been around for many years but with WebRTC, Web Real-Time > Communications, STUN and related extensions are about to see major > deployments and implementation due to these protocols being > implemented in browsers. This specification defines an ORIGIN > attribute for STUN that can be used in similar ways to the HTTP > header field of the same name. WebRTC browsers utilizing STUN and > TURN would include this attribute which would provide servers with > additional information about the STUN and TURN requests they > receive. > This specification defines the usage of the STUN ORIGIN attribute > for > web and SIP contexts. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-stun-origin/ >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tram-stun-origin-02 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-tram-stun-origin-02 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Wed Nov 12 17:57:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C01C11A036E for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:57:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.972 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.972 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nNK3zOSRQ6g2 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:57:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-x233.google.com (mail-vc0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B86011A1AAC for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:57:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vc0-f179.google.com with SMTP id le20so1834447vcb.38 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:57:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type; bh=OosDTstUqVHH/f98K9QuxAhcbMaUSo6k5VHicDrsf1k=; b=B/Qa57QcTImeNGTj3hOyhbrtIy/7BkQrPad2hcgMD0g3k/9Cavp5AMiz2EE08k/8lt cHbSu0ydtMK0LHm+NSu2BFzIYn684DHanJG64MkoHUI6dR01ovpZm0WsebBPovIyBiLM MkUkUO6cHYnYeA5vsy80WKYsXuilWouPRPtwb1zKD4Z9U7SBvUHtH7L7ChqlDwEQA46T J5ghqoMYmIL1yO5sBjUfhbBKTcF270BZSkt0rEoaLZWAu8PP7et5nk6SeAV54QgaSn82 HSKzjBLheNshwDNnDKH6t7eEHQkya4yx23wS03AyO3jCwI0c3csoivx4tcGyEpGf/GiA AeDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=OosDTstUqVHH/f98K9QuxAhcbMaUSo6k5VHicDrsf1k=; b=X1uYktaI61I86o/dbbvT/EKowbC7/MGUzX73t74JcF82Khp4QPmU53n7rspkXHAOW9 Ck5+xOV+ml3rqLDV/F6R6jCWVcuohLiyaePKg2aFhfsTBuKmc2b7HCOktuneiSlY67DM WiZhi2JY1uCi8ypk3rw9uETzip0BZxoT8/bSlc2yYCyBFHwL8yhB7keXrxwKgnLYYqta 63JPCHJraWHl85mM31kQjgKIGmqy06FewNsyUH4elwmWO0g6MdYDHrVsnPVogGwjnSC2 wxXZSMtVuTSkwYy0qCddxp3P1BDUmbhxVq8CuMtrm8xv5e1iuOhmgKUXFsFNI1++H4Yq 2nJw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl0yMv7/zZyCqsUbZ14fIMOSTlUn0M7OJQkR2zAK9KhBWBXwTOmh6uvwefu4uMOrialFHxE X-Received: by 10.52.228.67 with SMTP id sg3mr31087533vdc.2.1415843859905; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:57:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.237.130 with HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:57:19 -0800 (PST) From: Justin Uberti Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:57:19 -0800 Message-ID: To: "tram@ietf.org" , Dan Wing , Peter Thatcher Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01183d4e542c220507b3d647 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/-y5_Xu4j89UZK2HPBgmWCBUHxXw Subject: [tram] STUN retransmit count attribute X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 01:57:42 -0000 --089e01183d4e542c220507b3d647 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Following up on the STUN retransmit discussion today: I went back and looked through the rationale for why we considered adding a retransmit count, and it was basically to allow the remote side to know when ICE responses were getting lost, perhaps due to some internal error in a NAT. FWIW, in our impl we do update the transaction ID on each retransmit, since we do want to calculate an accurate RTT. --089e01183d4e542c220507b3d647 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Following up on the STUN retransmit discussion today:
= I went back and looked through the rationale for why we considered adding a= retransmit count, and it was basically to allow the remote side to know wh= en ICE responses were getting lost, perhaps due to some internal error in a= NAT.

FWIW, in our impl we do update the transaction ID = on each retransmit, since we do want to calculate an accurate RTT.
--089e01183d4e542c220507b3d647-- From nobody Wed Nov 12 18:08:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5A151A1AEA for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:08:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2cglvqsObs63 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:08:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.bemta7.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta7.messagelabs.com [216.82.254.104]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 714251A1B01 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:08:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [216.82.254.20] by server-8.bemta-7.messagelabs.com id 01/00-03121-59214645; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 02:08:21 +0000 X-Env-Sender: Mark.Duckworth@polycom.com X-Msg-Ref: server-16.tower-47.messagelabs.com!1415844501!12731499!1 X-Originating-IP: [140.242.64.158] X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 6.12.4; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 4464 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2014 02:08:21 -0000 Received: from crpehubprd01.polycom.com (HELO crpehubprd02.polycom.com) (140.242.64.158) by server-16.tower-47.messagelabs.com with AES128-SHA encrypted SMTP; 13 Nov 2014 02:08:21 -0000 Received: from PWEHUB01.polycom.com (10.236.2.221) by crpehubprd02.polycom.com (10.236.0.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.192.1; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:01:51 -0800 Received: from CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com ([fe80::9050:ae9:abfa:9da8]) by PWEHUB01.polycom.com ([fe80::99a8:f785:3f0c:2bb6%17]) with mapi; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:01:51 -0800 From: "Duckworth, Mark" To: "tram@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:01:47 -0800 Thread-Topic: STUN-bis and MD5 problem Thread-Index: Ac/+5FMb/UUgYOuBTTKv4TVx/nFOQw== Message-ID: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F968DAFD743@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/eFCs4z4G0wVfRYLpFb0Bm8rVARE Subject: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 02:08:42 -0000 Hello, I am trying to understand how the MD5 problem is or will be addressed. Is = it expected to be addressed in a future version of STUN-bis according to th= e "Hash Agility Plan" section? Regards, Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: tram [mailto:tram-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tirumaleswar > Reddy (tireddy) > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 5:10 PM > To: Brandon Williams; tram@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis adoption call ... snip ... > > Finally, there has been some discussion on the list about concerns > regarding > > the use of MD5 for generation and storage of keys and a hope that we > could > > move away from that mechanism. I'm not particularly concerns about that > > myself, since we would be using the third party auth mechanism. >=20 > But when TURN server is deployed in Enterprise network then it may have t= o > support both first and third party mechanisms. > The problem with MD5 is documented in > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7376#section-4. >=20 > Cheers, > -Tiru >=20 > > That said, I > > was expecting to see some reference to these concerns in the context of > hash > > agility. Perhaps that item just hasn't been addressed yet and will be i= n a > > future revision. > > > > --Brandon From nobody Wed Nov 12 21:31:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50CDA1A1B81 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:31:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7PyXxhKAuWQ4 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:31:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBC8B1A1B2E for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:31:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1660; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415856668; x=1417066268; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=b65ZpRLNudmoTOVRNwZ+EexRtXb/G2Zh6M8lvrQx+Is=; b=P4hlgG32K+Nk7q9TffGuwVga70nZjbMvqmXMlfXdTy1oNjoi78LTcpvp bLxo2FjX87DDZP8MUIfERNYHgTpIBgWBprZW3TQbeELeQt+a+O6RA6I2N rYmCjvnCVyn5M/P88eTLMHlazEcM1z+JTs/Za4PBjdTn7NDBoaPjF1zHq s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AowIACtBZFStJA2K/2dsb2JhbABcgw5UWQSDAslUCodPAhyBARYBAQEBAX2EAgEBAQMBAQEBIBE6CwULAgEIDgoCAiYCAgIlCxUQAgQOBYg4CQ24bJZKAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBEwSBLY9nB4J3NoEeBYUiAo0Wi3eBNI19hzaDfG2BSIEDAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,374,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="96154425" Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Nov 2014 05:31:07 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com [173.37.183.86]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAD5V66R022106 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 13 Nov 2014 05:31:06 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.6.134]) by xhc-rcd-x12.cisco.com ([173.37.183.86]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 23:31:05 -0600 From: "Pal Martinsen (palmarti)" To: Justin Uberti Thread-Topic: [tram] STUN retransmit count attribute Thread-Index: AQHP/uU7vVhGE+O0U06Nybs8d4MCNZxebNMA Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 05:31:05 +0000 Message-ID: <218861C5-1774-4C46-B0CE-9D14138BA7CB@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.21.146.215] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <3905E644145B724EAE44E15A297403B5@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/UAJQCxIw_PTwJTK5exlVstGn0bI Cc: "tram@ietf.org" , "Dan Wing \(dwing\)" , Peter Thatcher Subject: Re: [tram] STUN retransmit count attribute X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 05:31:08 -0000 DQo+IE9uIDEyIE5vdiAyMDE0LCBhdCAxNTo1NywgSnVzdGluIFViZXJ0aSA8anViZXJ0aUBnb29n bGUuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IEZvbGxvd2luZyB1cCBvbiB0aGUgU1RVTiByZXRyYW5zbWl0 IGRpc2N1c3Npb24gdG9kYXk6DQo+IEkgd2VudCBiYWNrIGFuZCBsb29rZWQgdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUg cmF0aW9uYWxlIGZvciB3aHkgd2UgY29uc2lkZXJlZCBhZGRpbmcgYSByZXRyYW5zbWl0IGNvdW50 LCBhbmQgaXQgd2FzIGJhc2ljYWxseSB0byBhbGxvdyB0aGUgcmVtb3RlIHNpZGUgdG8ga25vdyB3 aGVuIElDRSByZXNwb25zZXMgd2VyZSBnZXR0aW5nIGxvc3QsIHBlcmhhcHMgZHVlIHRvIHNvbWUg aW50ZXJuYWwgZXJyb3IgaW4gYSBOQVQuDQo+IA0KPiBGV0lXLCBpbiBvdXIgaW1wbCB3ZSBkbyB1 cGRhdGUgdGhlIHRyYW5zYWN0aW9uIElEIG9uIGVhY2ggcmV0cmFuc21pdCwgc2luY2Ugd2UgZG8g d2FudCB0byBjYWxjdWxhdGUgYW4gYWNjdXJhdGUgUlRULg0KDQpGb3Igd2ViUlRDIGFuZCB0aGUg cmF0ZSBsaW1pdGluZyBvZiB0aGUgY29ubmVjdGl2aXR5IGNoZWNrcyB0aGF0IG1ha2VzIHNlbnNl Lg0KDQpGb3Igb2xkIHNjaG9vbCB2YW5pbGxhIElDRSB0cmFuc2FjdGlvbnMgYW5kIHJldHJhbnNt aXNzaW9ucyBhcmUgZGVjb3VwbGVkLiBUaGUgY29ubmVjdGl2aXR5IGNoZWNrIGZhaWxzIHdoZW4g dGhlIHRyYW5zYWN0aW9uIGZhaWxzLiANCg0KTWF5YmUgdGhlIHF1ZXN0aW9uIGlzIHRvIGFzayBp biBNTVVTSUMgaXMgaWYgdGhlIFNUVU4gdHJhbnNhY3Rpb24gdGVybSBpcyBzdGlsbCB2YWxpZCBp biB0b2RheXMgdXNlIGNhc2VzPyBDb3VsZCBhbHNvIGhhdmUgdGhlIGFkZGVkIGJlbmVmaXQgb2Yg cmVkdWNpbmcgdGhlIG51bWJlcnMgb2YgdGltZXJzIG5lZWRlZCBpbiBJQ0UgKFRyYW5zYWN0aW9u IHRpbWVyIGFuZCByZXRyYW5zbWl0IHRpbWVyKQ0KDQpBIGNvdW50ZXIgb2YgbG9zdCBTVFVOIHBh Y2tldHMgb24gdGhlIHdpcmUgd291bGQgYWxzbyBiZSBuaWNlIGFzIGEgY3J1ZGUgaW5kaWNhdGlv biB0byBzZXZlcmUgcGFja2V0IGxvc3MuDQoNCi4tLg0KUMOlbC1FcmlrIA0KDQoNCj4gX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gdHJhbSBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3QNCj4gdHJhbUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvL3RyYW0NCg0K From nobody Thu Nov 13 02:13:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA3B11A6FCF for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 02:13:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.236 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.236 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qt8eXoodkud4 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 02:13:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from implementers.org (implementers.org [IPv6:2604:3400:dc1:41:216:3eff:fe5b:8240]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CFED1A6FC0 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 02:13:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:40b8:0:6c46:3d96:4fd3:8f70] (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:40b8:0:6c46:3d96:4fd3:8f70]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2597D20433; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:13:16 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <54648439.1070605@acm.org> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 03:13:13 -0700 From: Marc Petit-Huguenin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Duckworth, Mark" , "tram@ietf.org" References: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F968DAFD743@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> In-Reply-To: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F968DAFD743@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/gJVYIGO3z7kYDx9RIVOwFhRYPlY Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:13:20 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 11/12/2014 07:01 PM, Duckworth, Mark wrote: > Hello, > I am trying to understand how the MD5 problem is or will be addressed. Is it expected to be addressed in a future version of STUN-bis according to the "Hash Agility Plan" section? No, the problem that the "Hash Agility Plan" will solve (replacing HMAC-SHA1) is orthogonal to this problem. My understanding was that the third party credential mechanism (draft-ietf-tram-turn-third-party-authz) was the replacement to the long term credential mechanism (LTCM) for people who care. (we cannot simply deprecate the LTCM because it was designed to match the way SIP stores its passwords). > > Regards, > Mark > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tram [mailto:tram-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tirumaleswar >> Reddy (tireddy) >> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 5:10 PM >> To: Brandon Williams; tram@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis adoption call > > ... snip ... > >>> Finally, there has been some discussion on the list about concerns >> regarding >>> the use of MD5 for generation and storage of keys and a hope that we >> could >>> move away from that mechanism. I'm not particularly concerns about that >>> myself, since we would be using the third party auth mechanism. >> >> But when TURN server is deployed in Enterprise network then it may have to >> support both first and third party mechanisms. >> The problem with MD5 is documented in >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7376#section-4. >> >> Cheers, >> -Tiru >> >>> That said, I >>> was expecting to see some reference to these concerns in the context of >> hash >>> agility. Perhaps that item just hasn't been addressed yet and will be in a >>> future revision. >>> >>> --Brandon > > _______________________________________________ > tram mailing list > tram@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram > - -- Marc Petit-Huguenin Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Blog: http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJUZIQ4AAoJECnERZXWan7ERb0P/i8NS7B5h8tPoygatKmNTS5E H2ioi8jMs3gTXscG+8aJwbj7+P6N2RHPl3Lk000snvZgf+aFrL/yGLpQPim8F2sQ IaPGhPzd0jW49hAVf4grngQiB4mYHLh8OPZgXZB7vGiIwL9CbJp7i5Dwir+VEfNS JDpe1ANUjRvdmmJvW9fvAxB75tHXPv+EPZGHVUp1zcnz+LHHQR3PG5zw6v0B5+Lz mGhMRFBhgn54OT3brykutb4Rn/zXjW4dmp4H3OSh7ploCAiaGuMJISpRjpPE5pvu yDi2PKNxm+XiTcx6wXC9CbtYP2UEv5bysZnjog03huxUmR0g1M4P8AMqrHOd/en+ CLLeTpxK39SM7U2WWGWIe5hziJ+XvEHVCQYWWk4HZYi0rqaiRdzYgVG7YwoKzgd7 ouNXB1Xz1gMcqnvHI2ewQq7BvzDqfdZxI67byTNuogUAl/hisZreLjOD27MXoe15 rpHWBIKgS+YYdIQDB/U/W4VzCcgadOHG5/Jv2A+bHowWUKkdjhthBOgSM/we1IF0 r5djO8+nm/8Jnps+BvkFetvW/yKk5IDYJlLdVzq4QEOx3uvVpUBXLeYIA3DK0X+r TGS4yeYTmbwp2K16qNbt52mpZZCiu3UYTDL/+GrYcAip7y1oexilwwiJbOhK1PB/ Seujhr6zMkyZbViONmx2 =4vIO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Thu Nov 13 13:10:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 096CB1AD57B for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:10:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 88RoToabxToe for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:10:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-f173.google.com (mail-lb0-f173.google.com [209.85.217.173]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3181A1AD574 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:10:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f173.google.com with SMTP id n15so11878494lbi.32 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:10:18 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=7+egC+nD+xh/XcHkag1a3MDsYXCqb7B14rzJ1AWlui8=; b=D4oBDJFSOQ8qLpRFOU/U4VcS5p0RfDXZi1rcaDrkfQWqwz98nJKZC/aT2lQzxgSwUx G+B9a11So+HRtPYwFuoaBUQIMXm7m0auZwZHPIXetw57CPHfVF1OKAWj9bUoLofTKgZB 0wnSLu+brEHrRWT2doNqcbP/fRUi2FS86mxXdT2EwV/J8ESRGpN5PcdATVVVz4wNI8Vi gJjZZiwwGqhkZnwwHkNfZC7lSpXgLpX4qLQMWLyQl7bQjb3pFQrD6vXoMvtcMKxVlUXD r1E6aPCPyuBsJd2vFqDHZJjPbzxNtdSRO+kccqPk8JdArj0BaOjR0eFpVilzXlfIqGT0 nYDA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQniM7BLYOBMqQJ6QhfaF3xZfRe52gxa6K/TzWLGCA2a4dVUhsUPCQ0CJ9G49AHkdlK6caKg MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.172.97 with SMTP id bb1mr4543239lbc.38.1415913018607; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:10:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.25.84.135 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:10:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54648439.1070605@acm.org> References: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F968DAFD743@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> <54648439.1070605@acm.org> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:10:18 -1000 Message-ID: From: Simon Perreault To: Marc Petit-Huguenin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c33e9081e14d0507c3f041 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/xe7vVAeyAA5Sv3INQ4aD_rD3-Ik Cc: "Duckworth, Mark" , "tram@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:10:27 -0000 --001a11c33e9081e14d0507c3f041 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Marc Petit-Huguenin wrote: > > I am trying to understand how the MD5 problem is or will be addressed. > Is it expected to be addressed in a future version of STUN-bis according to > the "Hash Agility Plan" section? > > No, the problem that the "Hash Agility Plan" will solve (replacing > HMAC-SHA1) is orthogonal to this problem. My understanding was that the > third party credential mechanism (draft-ietf-tram-turn-third-party-authz) > was the replacement to the long term credential mechanism (LTCM) for people > who care. I feel that third-party-authz is much too heavy for people who just want a better hash algorithm. And it's an optional extension, not a core part of STUN (unless we make it so in STUN-bis). > (we cannot simply deprecate the LTCM because it was designed to match the > way SIP stores its passwords). That's just a poor excuse IMHO. I think it is unreasonable to publish in 2015 a protocol that stores its passwords with MD5. Simon --001a11c33e9081e14d0507c3f041 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Marc Petit-Huguenin <= ;petithug@acm.org= > wrote:
> I am trying to= understand how the MD5 problem is or will be addressed.=C2=A0 Is it expect= ed to be addressed in a future version of STUN-bis according to the "H= ash Agility Plan" section?

No, the problem that the "Hash Agility Plan" will solve (r= eplacing HMAC-SHA1) is orthogonal to this problem.=C2=A0 My understanding w= as that the third party credential mechanism (draft-ietf-tram-turn-third-pa= rty-authz) was the replacement to the long term credential mechanism (LTCM)= for people who care.

I feel that third-par= ty-authz is much too heavy for people who just want a better hash algorithm= . And it's an optional extension, not a core part of STUN (unless we ma= ke it so in STUN-bis).
=C2=A0
(we cannot s= imply deprecate the LTCM because it was designed to match the way SIP store= s its passwords).

That's just a poor excuse IMHO.=

I thi= nk it is unreasonable to publish in 2015 a protocol that stores its passwor= ds with MD5.

Simon
--001a11c33e9081e14d0507c3f041-- From nobody Thu Nov 13 15:31:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CA8D1AE2BB; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:31:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vMskiG2Yfz_I; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:31:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 203291AE19C; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:31:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141113233136.1202.62064.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:31:36 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/5CTKmjBeMG6Mt9r7rXLZ9FxFDRM Cc: tram@ietf.org Subject: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-stunbis-00.txt X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 23:31:37 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the TURN Revised and Modernized Working Group of the IETF. Title : Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) Authors : Marc Petit-Huguenin Gonzalo Salgueiro Jonathan Rosenberg Dan Wing Rohan Mahy Philip Matthews Filename : draft-ietf-tram-stunbis-00.txt Pages : 51 Date : 2014-11-13 Abstract: Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) is a protocol that serves as a tool for other protocols in dealing with Network Address Translator (NAT) traversal. It can be used by an endpoint to determine the IP address and port allocated to it by a NAT. It can also be used to check connectivity between two endpoints, and as a keep-alive protocol to maintain NAT bindings. STUN works with many existing NATs, and does not require any special behavior from them. STUN is not a NAT traversal solution by itself. Rather, it is a tool to be used in the context of a NAT traversal solution. This document obsoletes RFC 5389. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-stunbis/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tram-stunbis-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Nov 13 16:31:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44D931A016A for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:30:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.094 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.094 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RIF5r7rKDECX for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:30:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-8.cisco.com (alln-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.142.95]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 259BA1A01AA for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:30:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=9558; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415925048; x=1417134648; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=oHQQdaQDt2YfSiQRTINd3o/1AFrvWKGPxG6+GtPoFTc=; b=bA6opSwD7v64vo5FLkpcqLRhjOfW+0soG2IuOUHpn14k2wrNBnB9Svh+ UyGj3r4gQjEUOnWW2SZ+HaTiptaC/tnyAZq2hlo2RV9Y5AfvRaWeL7UYh MZm7hX4ce5BHGqO1faAOa8hmVHdezypWGy9cJUZ3EZdgYUuRM9UhDnat5 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AosIABNNZVStJV2d/2dsb2JhbABbgkhGVFkEgwLRQgIcgQMWAQEBAQF9hAIBAQEDASMKTAULAgEIDgMEAQEBCh0DAgICMBQJCAEBBAENBQiIMAm6UZYoAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF5BjFhsGAYJ3NoEeBZI6ol6CAgIcgVxtgUiBAwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.07,381,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="96478393" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by alln-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Nov 2014 00:30:41 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com [173.36.12.84]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAE0Ufhj008737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:30:41 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.15.250]) by xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com ([173.36.12.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:30:41 -0600 From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" To: Simon Perreault , Marc Petit-Huguenin Thread-Topic: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem Thread-Index: Ac/+5FMb/UUgYOuBTTKv4TVx/nFOQwAeGZSAABbyyAAABdfioA== Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:30:40 +0000 Message-ID: <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A283648D9@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> References: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F968DAFD743@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> <54648439.1070605@acm.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.70.233.135] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A283648D9xmbrcdx10ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/_JS4SlIOZbw7pe49Y9CKBz58WEE Cc: "Duckworth, Mark" , "tram@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." 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X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.194 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4uFzGFBDj-sC for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 17:52:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com (prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com [72.246.2.115]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E6191A000B for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 17:52:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by postfix.imss70 (Postfix) with ESMTP id 348CB47FBD for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:52:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from prod-mail-relay06.akamai.com (prod-mail-relay06.akamai.com [172.17.120.126]) by prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2932147F92 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:52:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [172.28.115.172] (bowill.kendall.corp.akamai.com [172.28.115.172]) by prod-mail-relay06.akamai.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21C5D2046 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:52:45 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <5465606D.7090906@akamai.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:52:45 -0500 From: Brandon Williams User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tram@ietf.org References: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F968DAFD743@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> <54648439.1070605@acm.org> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A283648D9@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A283648D9@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/lx0TALoHb2MBcJlYnbdC1G5MAbs Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:52:48 -0000 In my opinion, this is directly related to the hash agility plan, because identification of an appropriate key derivation function for each supported HMAC algorithm is important. I think mandating the use of MD5 as the KDF for SHA1 was a mistake to begin with, since it goes counter to the HMAC RFC. I think improved hash agility requires an improvement to the KDF, too. --Brandon On 11/13/2014 07:30 PM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: > *From:*tram [mailto:tram-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Simon Perreault > *Sent:* Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:10 AM > *To:* Marc Petit-Huguenin > *Cc:* Duckworth, Mark; tram@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Marc Petit-Huguenin > wrote: > > > I am trying to understand how the MD5 problem is or will be > addressed. Is it expected to be addressed in a future version of > STUN-bis according to the "Hash Agility Plan" section? > > No, the problem that the "Hash Agility Plan" will solve (replacing > HMAC-SHA1) is orthogonal to this problem. My understanding was that the > third party credential mechanism > (draft-ietf-tram-turn-third-party-authz) was the replacement to the long > term credential mechanism (LTCM) for people who care. > > I feel that third-party-authz is much too heavy for people who just want > a better hash algorithm. And it's an optional extension, not a core part > of STUN (unless we make it so in STUN-bis). > > [TR] Yup, TURN server deployed in Enterprise network could support both > first party authentication and third-party-authz. > > (we cannot simply deprecate the LTCM because it was designed to > match the way SIP stores its passwords). > > > That's just a poor excuse IMHO. > > I think it is unreasonable to publish in 2015 a protocol that stores its > passwords with MD5. > > [TR] What is the problem of moving to SHA-2 ? > > -Tiru > > Simon > -- Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer Emerging Products Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc. From nobody Thu Nov 13 19:13:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C36B11A212D for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:13:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UPP47lXBxwIA for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:13:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-6.cisco.com (alln-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.142.93]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B82691A1BA3 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:13:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2928; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415934796; x=1417144396; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=GLzXwSmhBBx2Kg9ScyifApVow+PKP+pvfLY1YTYuCOc=; b=cKL54CH/jI77ZxX5P3tJB4zXPuwzWvEkqvvwgr5q1AsFicMI73wokzmn 2U+sYNqgt9jMfxb8VYGT5H/cvQLfZe6TC8cj2Qtkul2NWY3JX9/27Er/g ApLCfJaNuOmbRORTSqgA7HUlMdE0iEQJQfFGfs/zdqEaJ0h+dEjl9gto8 s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhIFAFdyZVStJV2a/2dsb2JhbABbgw5VWQTMdgqHTgKBIRYBAQEBAX2EAgEBAQQBAQE3NBcEAgEIEQQBAQEKDgYJBycLFAkIAQEEARIIiDkN0G4BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXkHE4BhKDFYEeBZJHhFuJG5UJggICHIFcbYFIgQMBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,382,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="96505753" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Nov 2014 03:13:16 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com [173.37.183.78]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAE3DF8I020951 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:13:15 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.15.250]) by xhc-rcd-x04.cisco.com ([fe80::200:5efe:173.37.183.34%12]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:13:15 -0600 From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" To: Brandon Williams , "tram@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem Thread-Index: Ac/+5FMb/UUgYOuBTTKv4TVx/nFOQwAeGZSAABbyyAAABdfioAAEBWuAAAn+81A= Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:13:14 +0000 Message-ID: <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A28364B55@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> References: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F968DAFD743@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> <54648439.1070605@acm.org> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A283648D9@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> <5465606D.7090906@akamai.com> In-Reply-To: <5465606D.7090906@akamai.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.70.233.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/559QMKRYZih2PPeB9eYfQ1ufnxg Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:13:19 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: tram [mailto:tram-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Williams > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 3:53 PM > To: tram@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem >=20 > In my opinion, this is directly related to the hash agility plan, because > identification of an appropriate key derivation function for each support= ed > HMAC algorithm is important. I think mandating the use of > MD5 as the KDF for SHA1 was a mistake to begin with, since it goes counte= r > to the HMAC RFC. I think improved hash agility requires an improvement to > the KDF, too. SHA-2 can be used for key generation based on username, realm and password.= KDF discussed in http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5869 can be used to generat= e appropriate keying material for message integrity of STUN messages and it= s length can be determined based on the hash algorithm negotiated. -Tiru >=20 > --Brandon >=20 > On 11/13/2014 07:30 PM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: > > *From:*tram [mailto:tram-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Simon > > Perreault > > *Sent:* Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:10 AM > > *To:* Marc Petit-Huguenin > > *Cc:* Duckworth, Mark; tram@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem > > > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Marc Petit-Huguenin > > > wrote: > > > > > I am trying to understand how the MD5 problem is or will be > > addressed. Is it expected to be addressed in a future version of > > STUN-bis according to the "Hash Agility Plan" section? > > > > No, the problem that the "Hash Agility Plan" will solve (replacing > > HMAC-SHA1) is orthogonal to this problem. My understanding was that > > the third party credential mechanism > > (draft-ietf-tram-turn-third-party-authz) was the replacement to the > > long term credential mechanism (LTCM) for people who care. > > > > I feel that third-party-authz is much too heavy for people who just > > want a better hash algorithm. And it's an optional extension, not a > > core part of STUN (unless we make it so in STUN-bis). > > > > [TR] Yup, TURN server deployed in Enterprise network could support > > both first party authentication and third-party-authz. > > > > (we cannot simply deprecate the LTCM because it was designed to > > match the way SIP stores its passwords). > > > > > > That's just a poor excuse IMHO. > > > > I think it is unreasonable to publish in 2015 a protocol that stores > > its passwords with MD5. > > > > [TR] What is the problem of moving to SHA-2 ? > > > > -Tiru > > > > Simon > > >=20 > -- > Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer Emerging Products > Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > tram mailing list > tram@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram From nobody Thu Nov 13 19:48:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC4BF1A00A6 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:48:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.194 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.194 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6OaL8gXIVg5M for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:48:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com (prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com [72.246.2.115]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F7FD1A6EF0 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:46:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by postfix.imss70 (Postfix) with ESMTP id 650F547D5A for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:46:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from prod-mail-relay07.akamai.com (prod-mail-relay07.akamai.com [172.17.121.112]) by prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF6247D59 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:46:48 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [172.28.115.172] (bowill.kendall.corp.akamai.com [172.28.115.172]) by prod-mail-relay07.akamai.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45EB280055 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:46:48 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <54657B28.8020306@akamai.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 22:46:48 -0500 From: Brandon Williams User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "tram@ietf.org" References: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F968DAFD743@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> <54648439.1070605@acm.org> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A283648D9@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> <5465606D.7090906@akamai.com> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A28364B55@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A28364B55@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/B6oZ179OQzVmW0tiMSsVtrGAE-c Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:48:05 -0000 Sure, that's one way to resolve the "MD5 as KDF" problem for SHA-2 HMAC (and maybe some others too). I'm simply arguing that solving HASH agility and solving KDF agility are linked and should probably be considered collectively. --Brandon On 11/13/2014 10:13 PM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tram [mailto:tram-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Williams >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 3:53 PM >> To: tram@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem >> >> In my opinion, this is directly related to the hash agility plan, because >> identification of an appropriate key derivation function for each supported >> HMAC algorithm is important. I think mandating the use of >> MD5 as the KDF for SHA1 was a mistake to begin with, since it goes counter >> to the HMAC RFC. I think improved hash agility requires an improvement to >> the KDF, too. > > SHA-2 can be used for key generation based on username, realm and password. KDF discussed in http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5869 can be used to generate appropriate keying material for message integrity of STUN messages and its length can be determined based on the hash algorithm negotiated. > > -Tiru > >> >> --Brandon >> >> On 11/13/2014 07:30 PM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: >>> *From:*tram [mailto:tram-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Simon >>> Perreault >>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:10 AM >>> *To:* Marc Petit-Huguenin >>> *Cc:* Duckworth, Mark; tram@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Marc Petit-Huguenin >>> > wrote: >>> >>> > I am trying to understand how the MD5 problem is or will be >>> addressed. Is it expected to be addressed in a future version of >>> STUN-bis according to the "Hash Agility Plan" section? >>> >>> No, the problem that the "Hash Agility Plan" will solve (replacing >>> HMAC-SHA1) is orthogonal to this problem. My understanding was that >>> the third party credential mechanism >>> (draft-ietf-tram-turn-third-party-authz) was the replacement to the >>> long term credential mechanism (LTCM) for people who care. >>> >>> I feel that third-party-authz is much too heavy for people who just >>> want a better hash algorithm. And it's an optional extension, not a >>> core part of STUN (unless we make it so in STUN-bis). >>> >>> [TR] Yup, TURN server deployed in Enterprise network could support >>> both first party authentication and third-party-authz. >>> >>> (we cannot simply deprecate the LTCM because it was designed to >>> match the way SIP stores its passwords). >>> >>> >>> That's just a poor excuse IMHO. >>> >>> I think it is unreasonable to publish in 2015 a protocol that stores >>> its passwords with MD5. >>> >>> [TR] What is the problem of moving to SHA-2 ? >>> >>> -Tiru >>> >>> Simon >>> >> >> -- >> Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer Emerging Products >> Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tram mailing list >> tram@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram -- Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer Emerging Products Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc. From nobody Fri Nov 14 01:11:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F13671A8746 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:10:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cu5CE4TuIukG for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:10:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AF6A1A8753 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:10:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3948; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415956206; x=1417165806; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=1dLgRpZY3WrZ6bRQFWr/qe6xXtX3s3HwONCXLPMtDlY=; b=IY6r9WKwcmIL8fZcsU/hI4Ga39h1mvz3VNVc4+Lp7WOrBDjEqyK8XJ8e kfwuklMXjL4cNoqb2xVeTot/7NZasuQ7svspuDoxwK1ZUN1oDFRuKQmCN kF8/VtZLKbkiHp1LX04/UaOzv7E5IbTv62fPVHICsZh6cswlDXuo45HI4 s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhIFAHfGZVStJA2J/2dsb2JhbABbgw5VWQTMeAqHTgKBHxYBAQEBAX2EAgEBAQQBAQE3NBcEAgEIEQQBAQEKDgYJBycLFAkIAgQBEgiIOQ3QdwEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAReQcTgGEoMVgR4FkB+CKIRbiRuVCYICAhyBXG2BSIEDAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,384,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="372228711" Received: from alln-core-4.cisco.com ([173.36.13.137]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Nov 2014 09:10:04 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com [173.36.12.85]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAE9A4cT030012 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:10:04 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([169.254.15.250]) by xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com ([173.36.12.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:10:04 -0600 From: "Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy)" To: Brandon Williams , "tram@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem Thread-Index: Ac/+5FMb/UUgYOuBTTKv4TVx/nFOQwAeGZSAABbyyAAABdfioAAEBWuAAAn+81D//8/lAIAAClQQ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:10:03 +0000 Message-ID: <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A28365245@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> References: <5C4AC54BFF7A0842A6A11F554D6FB52F968DAFD743@CRPMBOXPRD08.polycom.com> <54648439.1070605@acm.org> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A283648D9@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> <5465606D.7090906@akamai.com> <913383AAA69FF945B8F946018B75898A28364B55@xmb-rcd-x10.cisco.com> <54657B28.8020306@akamai.com> In-Reply-To: <54657B28.8020306@akamai.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.70.233.42] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/HZU6th5IBKGBgpH6oGgJfW_9Ge8 Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:10:45 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: tram [mailto:tram-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Williams > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 5:47 PM > To: tram@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem >=20 > Sure, that's one way to resolve the "MD5 as KDF" problem for SHA-2 HMAC > (and maybe some others too). I'm simply arguing that solving HASH agility > and solving KDF agility are linked and should probably be considered > collectively. Agreed. -Tiru >=20 > --Brandon >=20 > On 11/13/2014 10:13 PM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: tram [mailto:tram-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Brandon > >> Williams > >> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 3:53 PM > >> To: tram@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem > >> > >> In my opinion, this is directly related to the hash agility plan, > >> because identification of an appropriate key derivation function for > >> each supported HMAC algorithm is important. I think mandating the use > >> of > >> MD5 as the KDF for SHA1 was a mistake to begin with, since it goes > >> counter to the HMAC RFC. I think improved hash agility requires an > >> improvement to the KDF, too. > > > > SHA-2 can be used for key generation based on username, realm and > password. KDF discussed in http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5869 can be used= to > generate appropriate keying material for message integrity of STUN > messages and its length can be determined based on the hash algorithm > negotiated. > > > > -Tiru > > > >> > >> --Brandon > >> > >> On 11/13/2014 07:30 PM, Tirumaleswar Reddy (tireddy) wrote: > >>> *From:*tram [mailto:tram-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Simon > >>> Perreault > >>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:10 AM > >>> *To:* Marc Petit-Huguenin > >>> *Cc:* Duckworth, Mark; tram@ietf.org > >>> *Subject:* Re: [tram] STUN-bis and MD5 problem > >>> > >>> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Marc Petit-Huguenin > >>> > wrote: > >>> > >>> > I am trying to understand how the MD5 problem is or will be > >>> addressed. Is it expected to be addressed in a future version of > >>> STUN-bis according to the "Hash Agility Plan" section? > >>> > >>> No, the problem that the "Hash Agility Plan" will solve (replacing > >>> HMAC-SHA1) is orthogonal to this problem. My understanding was that > >>> the third party credential mechanism > >>> (draft-ietf-tram-turn-third-party-authz) was the replacement to the > >>> long term credential mechanism (LTCM) for people who care. > >>> > >>> I feel that third-party-authz is much too heavy for people who just > >>> want a better hash algorithm. And it's an optional extension, not a > >>> core part of STUN (unless we make it so in STUN-bis). > >>> > >>> [TR] Yup, TURN server deployed in Enterprise network could support > >>> both first party authentication and third-party-authz. > >>> > >>> (we cannot simply deprecate the LTCM because it was designed to > >>> match the way SIP stores its passwords). > >>> > >>> > >>> That's just a poor excuse IMHO. > >>> > >>> I think it is unreasonable to publish in 2015 a protocol that stores > >>> its passwords with MD5. > >>> > >>> [TR] What is the problem of moving to SHA-2 ? > >>> > >>> -Tiru > >>> > >>> Simon > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer Emerging > >> Products Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> tram mailing list > >> tram@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram >=20 > -- > Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer Emerging Products > Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > tram mailing list > tram@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram From nobody Tue Nov 18 17:25:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C69201ACE30 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:25:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cTmyolnnleIQ for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:25:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com (prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com [72.246.2.115]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F6E1ACE2E for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:25:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by postfix.imss70 (Postfix) with ESMTP id E095F47529 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:25:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from prod-mail-relay06.akamai.com (prod-mail-relay06.akamai.com [172.17.120.126]) by prod-mail-xrelay07.akamai.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF19947504 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:25:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [172.28.115.172] (bowill.kendall.corp.akamai.com [172.28.115.172]) by prod-mail-relay06.akamai.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 618A52036 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:25:01 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <546BF16D.2030004@akamai.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:25:01 -0500 From: Brandon Williams User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "tram@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/uVTyjN7rqzzwdJHAMlpAisvjDRg Subject: [tram] STUN Origin Security Considerations X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:25:04 -0000 Hi all, In the meeting, I promised to follow up on this with a note to the list. Text in the current draft states the following: The STUN ORIGIN attribute also has privacy implications in that the origin information is shared with a STUN or TURN server which otherwise might not know this information. This information could be used to track usage of real-time communication services. A STUN or TURN server will always know the public IP address of each user, but the ORIGIN attribute provides more information about which service or provider is being used. The particular STUN and TURN servers used are selected by the real-time communications service provider (i.e. the web provider for WebRTC or the SIP or XMPP service provider). In addition, they are usually also run by the same provider, or by a trusted partner, especially for TURN. However, a service or provider using a public STUN server needs to recognize that the operator of the public STUN server will learn the identity of the service or provider through this extension. The last three sentences give the impression that the privacy concern does not apply to TURN servers, only to STUN servers, because TURN servers are more likely to be run by the application provider or a trusted partner of the application provider. This might not be true for auto-discovered, public, and other types of untrusted 3rd party TURN servers. The draft refers to "public STUN server" privacy implications, but I think the language could be broadened to cover all untrusted 3rd party relay servers. I propose the following minor modifications to the text, which I think clarify the intent. My changes are inclosed in [ ]. The particular STUN and TURN servers used are [usually] selected by the real-time communications provider ... However, a service or provider using an [untrusted third party] STUN [or TURN] server needs to recognize that the operator of the [third party] STUN [or TURN] server will learn the identity of the service or provider through this extension. Does this seem reasonable? --Brandon -- Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer Emerging Products Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc. From nobody Tue Nov 18 19:08:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A6831ACF75 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:08:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B63fdTgjvV36 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:08:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pd0-x236.google.com (mail-pd0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 675BB1ACF7A for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:08:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pd0-f182.google.com with SMTP id r10so390241pdi.27 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:08:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to; bh=795oNohiWV7/+wd1XL8IorJ5KHRm5tisrRkihiKI17s=; b=QXsvkf8x6KmBQOh96j7udrhMpURWF8bkvrmztG5f1PscAgNrk98UCEuXwn8kegd2XK +dhEVK8RbLkukyiFbAKxSa334KozTQ7xZqipkdblRZjnwY6n2flYZIHQBNvZDeQ2AjhU S0kgGV+Iz66+RQb5a/3obC24/4FEc+8/nm89YPwth5CuZ+4r5HGTTEgRqzX/XZQi2czR Z51AyMYozZJ16kGYHaGBS8pO2I5A7Vrn2JF+K18EyYv6/MKDp++t1g1GVj23N20/JixV TVCIG+LswzjmuctgIaukV8JrFpK8wMlysOF+UOu0kv59+p6ngyaj+ZVGTB0zcHEl+vqQ R0LQ== X-Received: by 10.68.167.99 with SMTP id zn3mr42012460pbb.30.1416366496624; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:08:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.73.195.151] (nat-dip27-wl-a.cfw-a-gci.corp.yahoo.com. [66.228.162.32]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id j5sm258309pdp.9.2014.11.18.19.08.15 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:08:15 -0800 (PST) References: <546BF16D.2030004@akamai.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <546BF16D.2030004@akamai.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11D201) From: Oleg Moskalenko Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:08:13 -0800 To: Brandon Williams Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/aOapGnKtlY7yycFiaDltwojlCYg Cc: "tram@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [tram] STUN Origin Security Considerations X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 03:08:20 -0000 That's a reasonable change. Oleg > On Nov 18, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Brandon Williams wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > In the meeting, I promised to follow up on this with a note to the list. >=20 > Text in the current draft states the following: >=20 > The STUN ORIGIN attribute also has privacy implications in that the > origin information is shared with a STUN or TURN server which > otherwise might not know this information. This information could be > used to track usage of real-time communication services. A STUN or > TURN server will always know the public IP address of each user, but > the ORIGIN attribute provides more information about which service or > provider is being used. The particular STUN and TURN servers used > are selected by the real-time communications service provider (i.e. > the web provider for WebRTC or the SIP or XMPP service provider). In > addition, they are usually also run by the same provider, or by a > trusted partner, especially for TURN. However, a service or provider > using a public STUN server needs to recognize that the operator of > the public STUN server will learn the identity of the service or > provider through this extension. >=20 > The last three sentences give the impression that the privacy concern does= not apply to TURN servers, only to STUN servers, because TURN servers are m= ore likely to be run by the application provider or a trusted partner of the= application provider. This might not be true for auto-discovered, public, a= nd other types of untrusted 3rd party TURN servers. The draft refers to "pub= lic STUN server" privacy implications, but I think the language could be bro= adened to cover all untrusted 3rd party relay servers. >=20 > I propose the following minor modifications to the text, which I think cla= rify the intent. My changes are inclosed in [ ]. >=20 > The particular STUN and TURN servers used are [usually] selected by > the real-time communications provider ... >=20 > However, a service or provider using an [untrusted third party] STUN > [or TURN] server needs to recognize that the operator of the > [third party] STUN [or TURN] server will learn the identity of the > service or provider through this extension. >=20 > Does this seem reasonable? >=20 > --Brandon >=20 > --=20 > Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer > Emerging Products Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > tram mailing list > tram@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram From nobody Tue Nov 18 19:29:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BBAD1ACF6B for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:29:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3bA_dmb_iodR for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:29:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x229.google.com (mail-wg0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38AC91ACF68 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:29:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wg0-f41.google.com with SMTP id y19so10229731wgg.28 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:29:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=HXa82AhEs3+k0G4g7V91IfBo+uloiw0Y2RvqAg7H9pU=; b=J5Jdzvjy/wLUGw1GRX+0DyMhW2kwydvBQmEDLK4i9pmSgb/KkTXYx7pcuFQGy9CRFX 8JFpv2RC/kMjSTd5J2IsgE8Q6Be+v2Q6FQAD8tUapUq9B4moy4CpWdmUkG/dxlAgFQhS OzGcO301llq0dYyIx4q/W+vXAVf7xtClcfhaALqKbdatKNNMq0le7tDQx9LZXLnAQR2k aNCbhBteUy6V6jcjQlGac1x+TE/7qeHPee12ZLHYXuEeNv2e6FZKnLp3Z0hlv2l+9WdK AEBvYZnTU4ShmVnfiwhanMvYMbUsE5lyZZf4hyHI7uCCSuejaOf7vkJxiUlHlW+8Y/AS IMEg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.8.130 with SMTP id r2mr1375907wia.60.1416367780941; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:29:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.117.137 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:29:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <546BF16D.2030004@akamai.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:29:40 -0600 Message-ID: From: Alan Johnston To: Oleg Moskalenko Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0444029a74556405082dd2c3 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/Fh1XXzflRj44qpV7KLr4CXVxmn4 Cc: "tram@ietf.org" , Brandon Williams Subject: Re: [tram] STUN Origin Security Considerations X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 03:29:45 -0000 --f46d0444029a74556405082dd2c3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Agreed. Thanks for sending this, Brandon. I will change this text and rev the document, unless someone disagrees. - Alan - On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Oleg Moskalenko wrote: > That's a reasonable change. > > Oleg > > > On Nov 18, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Brandon Williams < > brandon.williams@akamai.com> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > In the meeting, I promised to follow up on this with a note to the list. > > > > Text in the current draft states the following: > > > > The STUN ORIGIN attribute also has privacy implications in that the > > origin information is shared with a STUN or TURN server which > > otherwise might not know this information. This information could be > > used to track usage of real-time communication services. A STUN or > > TURN server will always know the public IP address of each user, but > > the ORIGIN attribute provides more information about which service or > > provider is being used. The particular STUN and TURN servers used > > are selected by the real-time communications service provider (i.e. > > the web provider for WebRTC or the SIP or XMPP service provider). In > > addition, they are usually also run by the same provider, or by a > > trusted partner, especially for TURN. However, a service or provider > > using a public STUN server needs to recognize that the operator of > > the public STUN server will learn the identity of the service or > > provider through this extension. > > > > The last three sentences give the impression that the privacy concern > does not apply to TURN servers, only to STUN servers, because TURN servers > are more likely to be run by the application provider or a trusted partner > of the application provider. This might not be true for auto-discovered, > public, and other types of untrusted 3rd party TURN servers. The draft > refers to "public STUN server" privacy implications, but I think the > language could be broadened to cover all untrusted 3rd party relay servers. > > > > I propose the following minor modifications to the text, which I think > clarify the intent. My changes are inclosed in [ ]. > > > > The particular STUN and TURN servers used are [usually] selected by > > the real-time communications provider ... > > > > However, a service or provider using an [untrusted third party] STUN > > [or TURN] server needs to recognize that the operator of the > > [third party] STUN [or TURN] server will learn the identity of the > > service or provider through this extension. > > > > Does this seem reasonable? > > > > --Brandon > > > > -- > > Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer > > Emerging Products Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tram mailing list > > tram@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram > > _______________________________________________ > tram mailing list > tram@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram > --f46d0444029a74556405082dd2c3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Agreed.=C2=A0

Thanks for sending this, = Brandon.=C2=A0 I will change this text and rev the document, unless someone= disagrees.

- Alan -

On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Ol= eg Moskalenko <mom040267@gmail.com> wrote:
That's a reasonable change.

Oleg

> On Nov 18, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Brandon Williams <brandon.williams@akamai.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> In the meeting, I promised to follow up on this with a note to the lis= t.
>
> Text in the current draft states the following:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The STUN ORIGIN attribute also has privacy implications in= that the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0origin information is shared with a STUN or TURN server wh= ich
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0otherwise might not know this information.=C2=A0 This info= rmation could be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0used to track usage of real-time communication services.= =C2=A0 A STUN or
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0TURN server will always know the public IP address of each= user, but
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0the ORIGIN attribute provides more information about which= service or
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0provider is being used.=C2=A0 The particular STUN and TURN= servers used
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0are selected by the real-time communications service provi= der (i.e.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0the web provider for WebRTC or the SIP or XMPP service pro= vider).=C2=A0 In
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0addition, they are usually also run by the same provider, = or by a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0trusted partner, especially for TURN.=C2=A0 However, a ser= vice or provider
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0using a public STUN server needs to recognize that the ope= rator of
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0the public STUN server will learn the identity of the serv= ice or
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0provider through this extension.
>
> The last three sentences give the impression that the privacy concern = does not apply to TURN servers, only to STUN servers, because TURN servers = are more likely to be run by the application provider or a trusted partner = of the application provider. This might not be true for auto-discovered, pu= blic, and other types of untrusted 3rd party TURN servers. The draft refers= to "public STUN server" privacy implications, but I think the la= nguage could be broadened to cover all untrusted 3rd party relay servers. >
> I propose the following minor modifications to the text, which I think= clarify the intent. My changes are inclosed in [ ].
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0The particular STUN and TURN servers used are [usually] se= lected by
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0the real-time communications provider ...
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0However, a service or provider using an [untrusted third p= arty] STUN
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0[or TURN] server needs to recognize that the operator of t= he
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0[third party] STUN [or TURN] server will learn the identit= y of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0service or provider through this extension.
>
> Does this seem reasonable?
>
> --Brandon
>
> --
> Brandon Williams; Senior Principal Software Engineer
> Emerging Products Engineering; Akamai Technologies Inc.
>
> _______________________________________________
> tram mailing list
> tram@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram

_______________________________________________
tram mailing list
tram@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram

--f46d0444029a74556405082dd2c3-- From nobody Tue Nov 25 20:35:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 594901A8A3C; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 20:35:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vqJJbNr-m3na; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 20:35:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C28AC1A8A20; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 20:35:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141126043538.11006.90336.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 20:35:38 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/ZLHTLjVgjGQbqC1G4HWcj6r0UNA Cc: tram@ietf.org Subject: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-alpn-08.txt X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 04:35:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the TURN Revised and Modernized Working Group of the IETF. Title : Application Layer Protocol Negotiation (ALPN) Labels for Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) Usages Authors : Prashanth Patil Tirumaleswar Reddy Gonzalo Salgueiro Marc Petit-Huguenin Filename : draft-ietf-tram-alpn-08.txt Pages : 5 Date : 2014-11-25 Abstract: Application Layer Protocol Negotiation (ALPN) labels for Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) usages, such as Traversal Using Relays around NAT (TURN) and NAT discovery, are defined in this document to allow an application layer to negotiate STUN usages within the Transport Layer Security (TLS) connection. ALPN protocol identifiers defined in this document apply to both TLS and Datagram Transport Layer Security (DTLS). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-alpn/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tram-alpn-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-tram-alpn-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Nov 28 06:07:28 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6892B1A1B6C for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 06:07:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fex-rWIa5WQD for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 06:07:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-f182.google.com (mail-lb0-f182.google.com [209.85.217.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0442A1A1A6D for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 06:07:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f182.google.com with SMTP id f15so6178990lbj.27 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 06:07:13 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=rh3vNag2VIma8LpiMOAKhEfRBejIEBaRYj8FDOJqeZo=; b=OOozDJ8Ha3S8T78jEa44AX7odZwXearaq1fv5yNoqfLIEBZXtIye15SAg77sX0Q4PS JFyiQnZVUcc1i62nOJQoz1+PIzizVsE3IbBVc3/4rELzvokM6kGTgilSKWMOsfLrm3Q1 oThj/64TPvNqbNXBDomCKowVEpB2JMlsaiO3SbIudw0rJAYGNBUYDyoXZ1PlKJKQrxWq LTafjj8+y0bmNN4Vjwtih9uUIwNJSswva/ErhY15loiNQEjxLZGwcnKsx1yIPzwpaH+U o5HDmz41Z7UWre+o+/kbNBavHaWZ1HtxVdxHu8E2qrStE9E/WAlZjHWR58Bi2Gm8lAsr xphQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn4/hABg9yAryP+inSlKUoLvxe/+tcgFBBKgyKymueJcJPOXPPkAb4qQOpqFluOZFTccSO4 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.56.134 with SMTP id a6mr44277328lbq.25.1417183633283; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 06:07:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.25.84.145 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 06:07:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:07:13 -0500 Message-ID: From: Simon Perreault To: "tram@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1133a8760b3a250508ebc7b3 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/w5PjeBkQNd8_ntqmOrKw8dOTtEY Subject: [tram] IETF 91 TRAM minutes X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 14:07:18 -0000 --001a1133a8760b3a250508ebc7b3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Tramsters, The minutes have been posted: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/minutes/minutes-91-tram Let the chairs know if there's any mistake. Thanks a lot to Andy Hutton! Simon & Gonzalo --001a1133a8760b3a250508ebc7b3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tramsters,

The minutes have been posted= :
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/minutes/minutes-91-tram
<= /div>

Let the chairs know if there's any mistake.

Thanks a lot to Andy Hutton!

Simon & Gonzalo
--001a1133a8760b3a250508ebc7b3-- From nobody Fri Nov 28 06:09:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E15B61A1B4E for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 06:09:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zJSMkkrKtPQ0 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 06:09:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-lb0-f174.google.com (mail-lb0-f174.google.com [209.85.217.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB2861A1B42 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 06:09:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-lb0-f174.google.com with SMTP id w7so5748908lbi.33 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 06:09:01 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=nYZkJtgoUWAYuScYeniTBT217RDgqIMN/4ur4VouZMs=; b=brES1V7oB3uGlRdnkiCVIyw2yLKRZ6Ul+KOlpCvMpTqNU2cQ8tOs18kV3O1EcqKvCm Q5SU6DmW0ZCisBxIMHgniouGEIHIE+uElvvOu7OAimN6eMXyeCliGNKf3v/FWuD1/MPA 7LEynUDxyty6JEocjMLcGSi3M6GAUyEBB+nhDf56QCGcC2E0aiNEGAfAqnm8/usowTOG ZJbbn6+rGLi5VdaOkXPRDQ1LSgxEdPMFuRwsfjfxB0TbwO2Ay30ZydgJpKyI+yDc9p6X u3VSUAl63iTHxrDyyqhcE4RUa+k+xCvQwr+JFUVco6/KHr/dtI44zAE/yJQ2osK0WwGv 0jhw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl2ZktYf/mfhxl/H9FD6J9C2QL+lJoQ1TeSZVnPIwMPD0J9eUjS9ok9xJUswx9OX3/I4Wmb MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.168.97 with SMTP id zv1mr44557100lbb.6.1417183741157; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 06:09:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.25.84.145 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 06:09:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <546BF16D.2030004@akamai.com> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:09:01 -0500 Message-ID: From: Simon Perreault To: Alan Johnston Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c341c8793c770508ebcd27 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tram/afHG1yhYZy3v9HBniyYXsQaM6uQ Cc: Oleg Moskalenko , "tram@ietf.org" , Brandon Williams Subject: Re: [tram] STUN Origin Security Considerations X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 14:09:06 -0000 --001a11c341c8793c770508ebcd27 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Alan Johnston wrote: > Thanks for sending this, Brandon. I will change this text and rev the > document, unless someone disagrees. Good! We'll start WGLC when the new rev is posted. Simon --001a11c341c8793c770508ebcd27 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 10:29 PM, Alan Johnston <alan.b.johnston@g= mail.com> wrote:
Thanks f= or sending this, Brandon.=C2=A0 I will change this text and rev the documen= t, unless someone disagrees.

Good! We'll start WG= LC when the new rev is posted.

Simon
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