From nobody Mon Jul 9 08:37:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93D95131007; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 08:37:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 98Itg3xSLK0P; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 08:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9001:583::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C77E213102F; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 08:37:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0122332.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w69FaYjY010601; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 16:37:07 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=akamai.com; h=subject : to : cc : references : from : message-id : date : mime-version : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=jan2016.eng; bh=9N6+kd40adAK8qf5LDCIaA/VtO0mV1AtdOFZPYZjazk=; b=oLHNdrHcVgxLayCYaCsHGjcqXm1AJ0zjpDJKhbBLnSsFoVq72LXvo/d4405yDEbqcqjg FtO+/6BMgr3GkeBmG3VGuuYtUqB7CwMeFPEO/soxOwPFJliJs4NMY7kDMOoqBLp/9z01 hZqPJxFKVlFAYJfX4imPvxA0D7BcHHIfGlRUcYcw0aTbMTpWbMLSSUGnJ6x/9Cb8u2wQ S8YrejyidUfm2qYginBjRHBrmKWYGxBC/SO0AAigCwhirdLFb18qXtDpGhuyxnGndK40 tnWdPOW/1ai1eZB2il5F+IezcOvFVJBHwXwltfus5kvXN4hz+26Pf39p3ZvNDKjAGP7C uQ== Received: from prod-mail-ppoint2 (prod-mail-ppoint2.akamai.com [184.51.33.19]) by mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2k2pah5wcr-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 09 Jul 2018 16:37:07 +0100 Received: from pps.filterd (prod-mail-ppoint2.akamai.com [127.0.0.1]) by prod-mail-ppoint2.akamai.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id w69FZFL3002451; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 11:37:06 -0400 Received: from prod-mail-relay11.akamai.com ([172.27.118.250]) by prod-mail-ppoint2.akamai.com with ESMTP id 2k2ruutypw-1; Mon, 09 Jul 2018 11:37:06 -0400 Received: from [172.28.116.174] (bowill.kendall.corp.akamai.com [172.28.116.174]) by prod-mail-relay11.akamai.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B70C1FC78; Mon, 9 Jul 2018 15:37:06 +0000 (GMT) To: Simon Perreault , tram@ietf.org Cc: Cullen Jennings , Eric Rescorla , draft-ietf-tram-turnbis@ietf.org References: From: Brandon Williams Message-ID: <960aa101-3c9c-360a-3165-6a603b04d106@akamai.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 11:37:03 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-07-09_07:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1806210000 definitions=main-1807090178 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-07-09_07:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1806210000 definitions=main-1807090178 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tram] Allow TURN to forward inbound connectivity checks without permission X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2018 15:37:12 -0000 Hi guys, Just checking in to figure out whether/when you might have a chance to look over the doc changes. I know with the meeting coming up next week you're unlikely to have time this week. Still I figured I'd send a ping now, even if it's more of a warning that I'll try to find a chance to touch base with you in-person next week. --Brandon On 06/13/2018 09:16 AM, Brandon Williams wrote: > EKR and Cullen, > > The turnbis draft was updated to allow permissionless inbound > connectivity checks. It would be useful for you to review the relevant > changes to verify that you think the use case(s) you had in mind will be > covered by the update. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-turnbis/ > > Thanks, > --Brandon > > On 03/19/2018 06:50 AM, Simon Perreault wrote: >> Tramsters, >> >> $subject is an very interesting idea from EKR presented today by >> Cullen in DISPATCH. Could/should we do this in TURN-bis? This could >> make TURN *much* more attractive for certain use cases that require >> fewer round trips... >> >> Simon >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tram mailing list >> tram@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram >> > > _______________________________________________ > tram mailing list > tram@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram -- Brandon Williams Platform Engineering Akamai Technologies Inc. From nobody Tue Jul 10 09:12:44 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 713A0130E23; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:12:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KbZs3A1imiY5; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb0-x229.google.com (mail-yb0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91701130FDF; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb0-x229.google.com with SMTP id s8-v6so8820412ybe.8; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:12:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NZeXRsZPFmDwfideC+I60dq26ESftL0ZLjDICwGah0k=; b=hQam3JGfGdOcdx0FpnFqsnOG96HkA9u0eAJsYj2htDJpUwTzzMp57WPGVYUC2wq9sG BuZ4yicFOgl+mJ3mK5Oy155AUG+oQGD7nkyZIKmTn02eE98Kj0nvK6XYDCsPo9Z2BffX hfJOhYUfjBCWfEgR3SM7sWAPxF4TGDmARha1dyZaxqjlKibwz9AHWhzOdUp4aXG+X/Kk yrkerWlIrnSofyweZabLz0fJ+bXL8iYJkd8a/9O2RravCjm+BxmPF3n6zCt96CdmBYFQ qBGwDC/8tURPuaRRG+jNmoSgEIj+vyotU4NDA1OPuX3Wxe3jWzLc0ykJgCcGrmzY337R VLPg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NZeXRsZPFmDwfideC+I60dq26ESftL0ZLjDICwGah0k=; b=iejQluW1GIyXRJygx7eAup6PDAjW/8uoQZecSwE8tHoq/poXwKeIxBlpKxcbqfm0Ar Qa9BYN0O4atw8S05HGpFVN0pd1gOep5Gi1kQz2SoS4goqUg/BUTfaUE6kKQ63DOtNmHq am5yY4NeYg/+S2J3mPswAMr/BjkicKwt/HZ1UUYpuqoObBhS3stkoJlSmnFhm8wEHxDf P6PidBSwhusw3VPlQYCNs2agLQ/j8Ak9XHRJBjDSatZw6B8XygRijPAGzgibRQotRiz8 kwUHx2t0I01FnGJfJscwybSFZAbTFB8KnEDr7OkQH+TFJKzqSeDtT6dRplcEXZ9VnM8r aCIg== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0I/4jhskcYPDKtsZ+AKBLZIslMuq1ILg9fkiHlVmvt0qMZtl1A ASdi1sJiAp2Aw0tze3MP1oHgjr99SwEGhiK/gwQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpcf+NHsGsJUavPBsFBd7qhsNN0eMsHISnF1ffPvzd76lea9m9me7qMm/zPIWl2qgD/VHjL9cuXBv/bcrzpAttA= X-Received: by 2002:a25:6f8b:: with SMTP id k133-v6mr6224327ybc.286.1531239159576; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:12:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <152421676370.10784.8969648253452773656.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55552202-8550-235b-b907-5f7dd65dbde2@petit-huguenin.org> <20e88a52-5283-8b7f-36dc-64cd936d693f@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <20e88a52-5283-8b7f-36dc-64cd936d693f@ericsson.com> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 11:12:28 -0500 Message-ID: To: Gonzalo Camarillo Cc: Marc Petit-Huguenin , draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org, tram-chairs@ietf.org, tram@ietf.org, "Asveren, Tolga" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002c401b0570a7660b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tram] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-07 X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 16:12:43 -0000 --0000000000002c401b0570a7660b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear TRAMsters, On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:35 AM Gonzalo Camarillo < Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > related to the following exchange between Marc and Spencer: > > > > If using authentication in > > > > > > UDP-based protocols that want to use any of these mechanisms, > > > including the PMTUD-SUPPORTED attribute, to signal PMTUD > capabilities > > > MUST ensure that it cannot be used to launch an amplification > attack. > > > For example, using authentication can ensure this. > > > > > > is only one way to ensure prevention of amplification attacks, is > there any > > > guidance or reference you could point to that would help > implementers > > > evaluate other approaches? > > > > It's a good question. I have to think about that. > > > > > > Thanks for the quick and thorough responses. > > > > I think I'm good on your responses for all my other questions. I'll let > > the working group chew on this one, and let the chairs/shepherd let me > > know when to request Last Call. > > Where are we with this? Do we have a way forward? > I didn't mean to ask a hard question here. Is this going to be difficult to figure out? Spencer > Cheers, > > Gonzalo > --0000000000002c401b0570a7660b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear TRAMsters,=C2=A0

<= div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:35 AM Gonzalo Camarillo <Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com= > wrote:
Hi,

related to the following exchange between Marc and Spencer:

>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> If using authentication in
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0UDP-based protocols that want to u= se any of these mechanisms,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 including the PMTUD-SUPPORTED att= ribute, to signal PMTUD capabilities
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 MUST ensure that it cannot be use= d to launch an amplification attack.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 For example, using authentication= can ensure this.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> is only one way to ensure prevention of amplif= ication attacks, is there any
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> guidance or reference you could point to that = would help implementers
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> evaluate other approaches?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It's a good question.=C2=A0 I have to think abo= ut that.
>
>
> Thanks for the quick and thorough responses.
>
> I think I'm good on your responses for all my other questions. I&#= 39;ll let
> the working group chew on this one, and let the chairs/shepherd let me=
> know when to request Last Call.

Where are we with this? Do we have a way forward?

=
I didn't mean to ask a hard question here. Is this going to = be difficult to figure out?

Spencer
=C2= =A0
Cheers,

Gonzalo
--0000000000002c401b0570a7660b-- From nobody Tue Jul 10 09:47:39 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13267131008; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:47:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.107 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eSee0wgeVwws; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implementers.org (unknown [92.243.22.217]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6693D131010; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:648:8300:e8a:d995:8d35:5a3c:68b] (unknown [IPv6:2601:648:8300:e8a:d995:8d35:5a3c:68b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65432AE8D8; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 18:47:32 +0200 (CEST) To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , Gonzalo Camarillo Cc: draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org, tram-chairs@ietf.org, tram@ietf.org, "Asveren, Tolga" References: <152421676370.10784.8969648253452773656.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55552202-8550-235b-b907-5f7dd65dbde2@petit-huguenin.org> <20e88a52-5283-8b7f-36dc-64cd936d693f@ericsson.com> From: Marc Petit-Huguenin Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=marc@petit-huguenin.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE6Mh9wBEADrUEDZChteJbQtsHwZITZExr7TAqT7pniNwhBX3nFgd+FrV3lsLKJ1rym2 52MAYpubXEJZGzMp6uCCAnROWbtmQbOm8z/jHnjxHhPqfuYCYPpAQqu8K/Sc194Rp37krMwB jz32yr7+gvWLzRgQGKIh9d2mzy8QLMETVWWQWGb6fEfpOxXo0wumN1rc/275kZwOu44JIPGg zbgwZdnEqYOUUa18K9MXeRDoWbwDISP30CvKuZDwD14lbBE3o7tBQrU9uoMhE7eFlTjbsCox qoubI2tZSuOTF8mRXjPmNrRGtf9mYkQnOB7y6qy/QxmOVMq4IRtHzOYIm/EZ6NTodcpZQHOM 2v6B6YK9uKrYrapSpJzn4f9oU7alT31Y3o2hOlxAWDQ16+Dd1MOPYsKQXOwY1/ihm4PTjiJ8 ud8yPzy7c+BSVs5wkBU6QuLNIgZHrrxdn+KxM+F/oAVtfzO7XzVoeOcXyWi3/CHL5pgoBruY enIF/RrRuplpy09pvZjmFPNfqKBYJGnqpQuqsQwO7LsFqDqfY2EuHg+KsGN1XuN+jxXc48/1 gCnKw7ALSPWEb7g25wD6KfiZTAcyRTG8LePNFQKhw61LbIWmkw9EaVLyXvwPTc1iCSc0dDT/ pcT/z+8xrWOyWGZNZAjR584NlDpKollbItcxYtFcYZkvTCmOVwARAQABtC1NYXJjIFBldGl0 LUh1Z3VlbmluIDxtYXJjQHBldGl0LWh1Z3VlbmluLm9yZz6JAjsEEwEIACUCGyMGCwkIBwMC BhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheAAhkBBQJX8tdbAAoJECnERZXWan7EiNkQAIbS72cyalFjxQ1l vEW9S8NjjwIMbb5+NC2XqDakAmZq+Aav/Yfk8aEc+eAWBboVC3NBBjYojMRXK1XEnD7xPQ1X rWd23TDibKajy/2fo/MS9/s6uPFOAINi1ykOMq8ShxMHcIPC/dvVt59a7DV1KPGlnUheNR7N 4rIbkL5KndatD38yTGkyKsFvVKTHJn3y5zqHTGP0BjE1rxsGEBn4h+EzxVCIMVFQUeMVPKPV dlQY9fxdicSGPK2WKo1KL3CVpnYTuNCAVIGA9DPTXPPKvEte+/+xv10I03pj4w87iMUZt7Ca FTO55Gsf8hZvmpuB224yzrAbquA450EUVcQ7KAPcHrph5KAu0d3nwrjrUDn/RWWbyRiVrPtf hmnAAhkSv7oOxzyMdLvqt7XKGKbABhrl1ZRF8QbquOkyu8n3Bz2Osgw7JyFn9N6svlFPmpML UTEi64NewvN6zszKs/zBS6bn7na75gxHNvjSZpSF6uSLYgmKbyG8vkY/i0s0e0njjOHcpNx1 0mNZ+wOoCgHtSCZFyv14ncioJTiSjtZCs+srW9PFlbOg73C1Op42xV5Y+dh/mCC+rweKtB3t yTAy52v8vPG0VjsLS52x6yUsoDjYV33AmTEaWmGzN5t8BX/qh7pgNIEd9TEwrR3B4LjqMmUk XXWSJG5IM8Zr2OE/t2vyuQINBE6Mh9wBEAC/i4Lh4XEgwi/yHr3XLx/+f38ztn5rrk8XRsK2 WUpu5evxw9iK2oelqWtS71XkW57EavJOjvP4t8FWqRKED5jWN741n12iW/EeLx3KoHMcPTfY 4WWvprxiZPfnCIpQ8j8x0QQSA+Hf96BSkAkOGNkiJDuus5z4XwTktn9gFOwLVx4VRMo+lrCy um6BDHI+4/sOWnrNp2WptI4YKM/uA0HpuLpPKLra0ZW6Bp2TewNpAjbst/VHjqewab0PeSCn CQiHkqIibdgOATT0K6KoVtMxp/WPRSfVImfWCHjT2G7HFMcb6w/jlPSb+u4VtL9yn76CCg8F SqTtzFuqPtbXkhrdSgks/grxiQryMXwpO0uSuUgZ3u2TSs+65Bl2CM5cq+2aBIER5qhpnCv7 B00uHuoNqUEK0VEpLKcqi2ZeVM5oO8iOaBgS9Gh082HQ5JDijEV2J5e4rwXjbRnJ4hqpTjSy caW8HnPI+4S0aqVxbnqW7T6l/xnn7ivK3aPqaRKqUSedHCU3oHIU31n0o5+f5htQeDs/Tpzn ARHkyzu9vZ9CvQXk8daZorA+j/38q6mWU6Mw8FRIu1qPQDmqljobk3vC9BZRSJOn3P8jNMM7 w1j+7Da3rxGBylfa3fmHPyY7dvdyeLmsq7egzTJkpAMN55Qat7iuXeeCdBQLAFHLBP1tvwAR AQABiQIfBBgBCAAJAhsMBQJX8tdcAAoJECnERZXWan7EkMgP/isd3lrSsm/8t+U44LY0/x67 cPmiKa9biveywJZ9Y+Zu/pUP44dP670mY7PmEDGC6lRiPKGmhf7vqq6JJFOqX64VWePQ9QZp kkzAUmIJwQ2Kmcmfrs0J5w2Lf5qaNji25fQYbon0eUFy6eN3BNRSIcg0+OsH7HubTWfpZeJu B7V7k8OFt2+HDx7aNdNutDJIu4V25AzGfonARQzJK62cmB0pwYXpcyDO152OwP12XbpXxXA1 xHGYQBRL98pSbMU5xsMw8j9VQHQRS94aT9Qqnz9SrYuISnMV2WGyIE0rAY3GGz3IcN5LVE1N vSP51ih+YJg/qsBYs8obbfEIZelOuznWf120RgV7P+7ZWCSBohmchuyELQzl9D7FXfulkXA3 RapKQcGJMVPIHYgnlvmE0OXfJl1z09nYRQHitoQhWtviHWl7x/KL42aUzHirLR61iVA2kqkO BhU+u+g2w8qrZj+lJfXIxlbVyLOuBVqkfcK28AR9RriB4Q5hvbDeQJMgfZsV2hBt7huBOqkH nnbSCguqfnmwLGkxoM7RVjCQwvC1M57uwdKMlsTVaBP0RreZnrDngLamK+ibXYe7p8pPAWD9 cuHvkkjML7cIfuvbScDYRmGzia3V9+LVzQCm+q/6xUY1SZvrDz7OaJOy3Xb1d+aPhYaNC0TQ 7IqA1dx8rZYQ Message-ID: <017a2d06-d87d-3564-9567-117989903192@petit-huguenin.org> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 09:47:25 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="a4Xkoz3CXLymZ8W39cHTEZN3GFXaeaKQR" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tram] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-07 X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 16:47:38 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --a4Xkoz3CXLymZ8W39cHTEZN3GFXaeaKQR Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="B7ySwPIPxToorTu9JfmTVsPyuEfO3ONr5"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marc Petit-Huguenin To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF , Gonzalo Camarillo Cc: draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org, tram-chairs@ietf.org, tram@ietf.org, "Asveren, Tolga" Message-ID: <017a2d06-d87d-3564-9567-117989903192@petit-huguenin.org> Subject: Re: [tram] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-07 References: <152421676370.10784.8969648253452773656.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55552202-8550-235b-b907-5f7dd65dbde2@petit-huguenin.org> <20e88a52-5283-8b7f-36dc-64cd936d693f@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: --B7ySwPIPxToorTu9JfmTVsPyuEfO3ONr5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 07/10/2018 09:12 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > Dear TRAMsters, >=20 > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:35 AM Gonzalo Camarillo < > Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com> wrote: >=20 >> Hi, >> >> related to the following exchange between Marc and Spencer: >> >>> > If using authentication in >>> > >>> > UDP-based protocols that want to use any of these mechanisms,= >>> > including the PMTUD-SUPPORTED attribute, to signal PMTUD >> capabilities >>> > MUST ensure that it cannot be used to launch an amplificatio= n >> attack. >>> > For example, using authentication can ensure this. >>> > >>> > is only one way to ensure prevention of amplification attacks, = is >> there any >>> > guidance or reference you could point to that would help >> implementers >>> > evaluate other approaches? >>> >>> It's a good question. I have to think about that. >>> >>> >>> Thanks for the quick and thorough responses. >>> >>> I think I'm good on your responses for all my other questions. I'll l= et >>> the working group chew on this one, and let the chairs/shepherd let m= e >>> know when to request Last Call. >> >> Where are we with this? Do we have a way forward? >> >=20 > I didn't mean to ask a hard question here. Is this going to be difficul= t to > figure out? >=20 The short answer is that I could not find a good reference pointing to gu= idance about that, so I prepared some text that I want to discuss with my= co-author next week in Montreal. --=20 Marc Petit-Huguenin Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug --B7ySwPIPxToorTu9JfmTVsPyuEfO3ONr5-- --a4Xkoz3CXLymZ8W39cHTEZN3GFXaeaKQR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEBSI+IuCHU8MsI1GjKcRFldZqfsQFAltE4yEACgkQKcRFldZq fsQWTg/+L3nMnbFyne8j6twEzEmXAbbpI80PmE00E6NR4UrK+8s91sFKZu1cFGum jNV1hvHoabnT1Lejio7qhXcDK2oqmHdnUJ7mqAutVE/zNwj1IaCIJ546cxp8z4C8 xX07FnTO4GW6Lt/NfCPa230nIW9QkkfWMP6lg9QtfFASHi6aI95F+4OInoDd9QTO fSF+B1pHgL+5oNoR/wPqWPC1v6pGvf8cipVtOy1NuN5W8V0QOefBdMSgNGLyBAvu DE8VpZHfpJt1I5iU2cR2epPulgbUQnjM62FSfWIc8Kp/zxQyApZP0att913r59B/ 2avrEvrnpa65fZ+Y01AlHl9syxWMWk+FSetdR+qe8sQ+MnY/jNjzCeDob8lywDtg M+75C9cIbP6wq5cQiZSm0HHvaM6pE6wmoe+aTwugDHbItldCmhmGdR8e3XRTqDZ3 ivPaKiGyLojKuVDXD0++ZtcxMDFRuTuA7aK5qJ+zn37WCpGmehk0QBJ+O1+YwSaU aTCXNQkwPuLwqxvLC9m3obNb10oVHxI4/wDdzKz3O13FDJ1ADgn/4ZJZyNhJ41pL NLkxZnSdN4RQ6DNx98DEdScmipX2+09uCeIl+KVASyY08n9CdLrIXuUPQNuY19lc m9qaqrUGvVL3NbFdwfdZ/ujM8dpIjgqfylY9kExo9GJkm88rAi0= =dUVt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --a4Xkoz3CXLymZ8W39cHTEZN3GFXaeaKQR-- From nobody Fri Jul 13 14:11:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91F38130E37; 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Fri, 13 Jul 2018 14:11:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <152421676370.10784.8969648253452773656.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55552202-8550-235b-b907-5f7dd65dbde2@petit-huguenin.org> <20e88a52-5283-8b7f-36dc-64cd936d693f@ericsson.com> <017a2d06-d87d-3564-9567-117989903192@petit-huguenin.org> In-Reply-To: <017a2d06-d87d-3564-9567-117989903192@petit-huguenin.org> From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 16:11:32 -0500 Message-ID: To: Marc Petit-Huguenin Cc: Gonzalo Camarillo , draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org, tram-chairs@ietf.org, tram@ietf.org, "Asveren, Tolga" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000046b1150570e7edbc" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tram] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-07 X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 21:11:48 -0000 --00000000000046b1150570e7edbc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Marc, On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 11:47 AM Marc Petit-Huguenin < marc@petit-huguenin.org> wrote: > On 07/10/2018 09:12 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > > Dear TRAMsters, > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:35 AM Gonzalo Camarillo < > > Gonzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> related to the following exchange between Marc and Spencer: > >> > >>> > If using authentication in > >>> > > >>> > UDP-based protocols that want to use any of these mechanisms, > >>> > including the PMTUD-SUPPORTED attribute, to signal PMTUD > >> capabilities > >>> > MUST ensure that it cannot be used to launch an amplification > >> attack. > >>> > For example, using authentication can ensure this. > >>> > > >>> > is only one way to ensure prevention of amplification attacks, is > >> there any > >>> > guidance or reference you could point to that would help > >> implementers > >>> > evaluate other approaches? > >>> > >>> It's a good question. I have to think about that. > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks for the quick and thorough responses. > >>> > >>> I think I'm good on your responses for all my other questions. I'll let > >>> the working group chew on this one, and let the chairs/shepherd let me > >>> know when to request Last Call. > >> > >> Where are we with this? Do we have a way forward? > >> > > > > I didn't mean to ask a hard question here. Is this going to be difficult > to > > figure out? > > > > The short answer is that I could not find a good reference pointing to > guidance about that, Good to know. Thank you. > so I prepared some text that I want to discuss with my co-author next week > in Montreal. > That will be excellent. I'll await the output from that discussion. Spencer > -- > Marc Petit-Huguenin > Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org > Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org > Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug > > --00000000000046b1150570e7edbc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Marc,=C2=A0

On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 11:47 AM Marc Petit-Huguenin <marc@petit-huguenin.org> wrote:<= br>
On 07/10/2018 09:12 AM, Spencer Daw= kins at IETF wrote:
> Dear TRAMsters,
>
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:35 AM Gonzalo Camarillo <
> Go= nzalo.Camarillo@ericsson.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> related to the following exchange between Marc and Spencer:
>>
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> If using authentication in
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0UDP-based protocols that w= ant to use any of these mechanisms,
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 including the PMTUD-SUPPO= RTED attribute, to signal PMTUD
>> capabilities
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 MUST ensure that it canno= t be used to launch an amplification
>> attack.
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 For example, using authen= tication can ensure this.
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> is only one way to ensure prevention o= f amplification attacks, is
>> there any
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> guidance or reference you could point = to that would help
>> implementers
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> evaluate other approaches?
>>>
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It's a good question.=C2=A0 I have to t= hink about that.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the quick and thorough responses.
>>>
>>> I think I'm good on your responses for all my other questi= ons. I'll let
>>> the working group chew on this one, and let the chairs/shepher= d let me
>>> know when to request Last Call.
>>
>> Where are we with this? Do we have a way forward?
>>
>
> I didn't mean to ask a hard question here. Is this going to be dif= ficult to
> figure out?
>

The short answer is that I could not find a good reference pointing to guid= ance about that,

Good to know. Thank you.= =C2=A0
=C2=A0
so I prepared s= ome text that I want to discuss with my co-author next week in Montreal.

That will be excellent. I'll await th= e output from that discussion.=C2=A0

Spencer
=
=C2=A0
--
Marc Petit-Huguenin
Email: marc@pe= tit-huguenin.org
Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org
Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug

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