From nobody Fri Aug 10 12:35:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47B03130EAE for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 12:35:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.711 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Htz6nYGmrri2 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 12:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9005:57f::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C546F130F69 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 12:35:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0122330.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w7AJVcIp001121; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 20:35:31 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=akamai.com; h=subject : to : references : from : message-id : date : mime-version : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=jan2016.eng; bh=NEjXWdYH9ONwPX7z6f/arpKioxWFXqlCbbcb9OrVW/0=; b=YTOFE7+3dgorCXv+wXCtGNxD0TAQilK20W+e8QwGEXsUz/PTqbvClRRCZUJuxOsuUz3R HrleW4kTwa56Hf28pH9Hnm804z2ND9T9nphZbMlkfSS5lu4zQsTIxnyIjeGF829qrFDE wdmNtZMBGVBs9/aq2BP38JjENmlfeY0E4rZ/Zb0Gl8ZsVsikTT6/EBDviRmKtQr2OaaE Rtxt04yQpVg5Ou3kkOhKHcKU5o4phlIh9QFHqQkwhT7TmGumf1oogwPmhGdUEk020khD GA/9qy/buRpYTpTx+raBPRkKYtc5SWD7AZ3Bi9QcuFewcCPbCDf5SX9NJbgGb+hOHLu8 9A== Received: from prod-mail-ppoint2 (prod-mail-ppoint2.akamai.com [184.51.33.19]) by mx0b-00190b01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2kqww5fpc2-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 10 Aug 2018 20:35:31 +0100 Received: from pps.filterd (prod-mail-ppoint2.akamai.com [127.0.0.1]) by prod-mail-ppoint2.akamai.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id w7AJYspv024341; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:35:30 -0400 Received: from prod-mail-relay10.akamai.com ([172.27.118.251]) by prod-mail-ppoint2.akamai.com with ESMTP id 2kn7fupxmj-1; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:35:29 -0400 Received: from [172.28.19.112] (bowill.kendall.corp.akamai.com [172.28.19.112]) by prod-mail-relay10.akamai.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FFD31FCD8; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 19:35:29 +0000 (GMT) To: tram@ietf.org, Eric Rescorla , Cullen Jennings , Nils Ohlmeier , Justin Uberti , "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" References: <152809326560.20924.1993421118096117008@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Brandon Williams Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:35:29 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-08-10_12:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=8 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1808100209 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-08-10_12:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=8 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1808100209 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19.txt X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 19:35:40 -0000 Hi all, The one remaining item that I have been hoping for before submitted turnbis for publication is review of permissionless ICE relay support from someone who intends to make use of this new feature in the protocol. I attempted to get commitments for review from EKR and Cullen in Montreal, but they were each busy enough with other things that they weren't prepared to make such a commitment. So, with that in mind, I have a couple of questions for the list. For those of you who have reviewed this new content (namely Nils, Justin, and Ram): Have any of you implemented support for this capability? Or do you intend to in the near future? For the rest of you, is there anyone who has not reviewed the changes yet who has implemented these changes? I'm mostly concerned about verifying that an implementor has looked at this carefully enough to be confident that it can be implemented effectively, especially as regards relevant security controls to protect the client that is behind a relay that supports this capability. I'll appreciate any feedback from the list about this. Thanks, --Brandon On 06/04/2018 02:24 AM, Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy wrote: > This revision addresses comments from Justin. > > -Tiru > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tram [mailto:tram-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet- >> drafts@ietf.org >> Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 11:51 AM >> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> Cc: tram@ietf.org >> Subject: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19.txt >> >> >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >> This draft is a work item of the TURN Revised and Modernized WG of the IETF. >> >> Title : Traversal Using Relays around NAT (TURN): Relay Extensions >> to Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) >> Authors : Tirumaleswar Reddy >> Alan Johnston >> Philip Matthews >> Jonathan Rosenberg >> Filename : draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19.txt >> Pages : 84 >> Date : 2018-06-03 >> >> Abstract: >> If a host is located behind a NAT, then in certain situations it can >> be impossible for that host to communicate directly with other hosts >> (peers). In these situations, it is necessary for the host to use >> the services of an intermediate node that acts as a communication >> relay. This specification defines a protocol, called TURN (Traversal >> Using Relays around NAT), that allows the host to control the >> operation of the relay and to exchange packets with its peers using >> the relay. TURN differs from some other relay control protocols in >> that it allows a client to communicate with multiple peers using a >> single relay address. >> >> The TURN protocol was designed to be used as part of the ICE >> (Interactive Connectivity Establishment) approach to NAT traversal, >> though it also can be used without ICE. >> >> This document obsoletes RFC 5766 and RFC 6156. >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-turnbis/ >> >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19 >> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19 >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tram mailing list >> tram@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram > > _______________________________________________ > tram mailing list > tram@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram > -- Brandon Williams Platform Engineering Akamai Technologies Inc. From nobody Fri Aug 10 13:59:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5315130ECC for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 13:59:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mozilla.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HTr5u6ntcWpq for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 13:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl0-x22e.google.com (mail-pl0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AAA6130E41 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 13:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id d5-v6so4520865pll.4 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 13:59:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mozilla.com; s=google; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=fBNUa+TsLH2brlf4NA7EB2RRcnEwIdgCgo1forhc3sQ=; b=JIKStwDDP4IaCxGtnjn+AF5IrB25r3Qce/3MQHdJCIx3o9xrI78YX06PLfQQfLoTFj EW2/IT6eUTOhWdz6+IJtQ8MTRRsKYFvEVXlYU2q+MAHr2Q0OQbP1ppPZc+dPJ4GENNkJ 6Ht/ydax3/V9g4D2SqXF4FjKHCcHdbhwb13AE= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=fBNUa+TsLH2brlf4NA7EB2RRcnEwIdgCgo1forhc3sQ=; b=GdLMFR8zwH9ml30MbfTYDSgnSXBOyt2pTeg87vE2BTN5bW+OJWsEZbRiFMlAsozB1G cNVA8MDXfibrTMdycLKUMqEzQWG/LLpegDH6kQjZ1AsWD8RqV4g6o/OFlJ4P9VH3t0JD EBxYbIYMGMuP651c7xByZReo8lMZ3SpGGclRjWnKDJ2YVDnTDk0zPieUSyasEiwzxEW+ qwqG5rmWtIf3bRLrhjpmNuDHGj9Tig22sxFLBUGoRtDF2k+hk5UrsOb52A9bUR/FPoKx ztlc3oDQSq2AgILujr+nDfCCDYPdOrDt3cWZuTwJCB0SRBW6Z30B5IGeAi7PFFeYJstD asFA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHmJ4KQmJQBHYi9nrtUUhmtw0BKhI/tGnAoKsOGRPqTwR3g30rK 5LdSXRmS4a6PcGJujUq22vmmwg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPx2bwYzQj4J4uKYcVSDqOk9MrePbpqqQlwpXAQJTttIHNeQJNKSAnFVBeccDbRt+DlT7tLIJw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:a50a:: with SMTP id s10-v6mr7394205plq.147.1533934759847; Fri, 10 Aug 2018 13:59:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2620:101:80fc:224:b9f6:d0b5:aaf1:be2a? ([2620:101:80fc:224:b9f6:d0b5:aaf1:be2a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z2-v6sm9905986pgv.12.2018.08.10.13.59.17 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 10 Aug 2018 13:59:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Nils Ohlmeier Message-Id: <00B25F74-14C8-43A8-97BD-58981FA9DE01@mozilla.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_89E24078-B9FA-4462-8829-47A79E5DE8F2"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 13:59:15 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: tram@ietf.org, Eric Rescorla , Cullen Jennings , Justin Uberti , "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Brandon Williams References: <152809326560.20924.1993421118096117008@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19.txt X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2018 20:59:24 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_89E24078-B9FA-4462-8829-47A79E5DE8F2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Brandon, Mozilla doesn=E2=80=99t own or operate TURN servers or server code. I=E2=80=99m expecting that Firefox ICE implementation would start to = answer STUN bindings requests from the TURN relay right away with no = change. So if I=E2=80=99m not mistaken it should work with a TURN server right = away. Happy to test with a server implementation/prototype any time. Best regards Nils Ohlmeier > On Aug 10, 2018, at 12:35, Brandon Williams = wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > The one remaining item that I have been hoping for before submitted > turnbis for publication is review of permissionless ICE relay support > from someone who intends to make use of this new feature in the > protocol. I attempted to get commitments for review from EKR and = Cullen > in Montreal, but they were each busy enough with other things that = they > weren't prepared to make such a commitment. So, with that in mind, I > have a couple of questions for the list. >=20 > For those of you who have reviewed this new content (namely Nils, > Justin, and Ram): Have any of you implemented support for this > capability? Or do you intend to in the near future? >=20 > For the rest of you, is there anyone who has not reviewed the changes > yet who has implemented these changes? >=20 > I'm mostly concerned about verifying that an implementor has looked at > this carefully enough to be confident that it can be implemented > effectively, especially as regards relevant security controls to = protect > the client that is behind a relay that supports this capability. >=20 > I'll appreciate any feedback from the list about this. >=20 > Thanks, > --Brandon >=20 > On 06/04/2018 02:24 AM, Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy wrote: >> This revision addresses comments from Justin. >>=20 >> -Tiru >>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: tram [mailto:tram-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet- >>> drafts@ietf.org >>> Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 11:51 AM >>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >>> Cc: tram@ietf.org >>> Subject: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19.txt >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >>> This draft is a work item of the TURN Revised and Modernized WG of = the IETF. >>>=20 >>> Title : Traversal Using Relays around NAT (TURN): = Relay Extensions >>> to Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) >>> Authors : Tirumaleswar Reddy >>> Alan Johnston >>> Philip Matthews >>> Jonathan Rosenberg >>> Filename : draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19.txt >>> Pages : 84 >>> Date : 2018-06-03 >>>=20 >>> Abstract: >>> If a host is located behind a NAT, then in certain situations it = can >>> be impossible for that host to communicate directly with other = hosts >>> (peers). In these situations, it is necessary for the host to use >>> the services of an intermediate node that acts as a communication >>> relay. This specification defines a protocol, called TURN = (Traversal >>> Using Relays around NAT), that allows the host to control the >>> operation of the relay and to exchange packets with its peers = using >>> the relay. TURN differs from some other relay control protocols = in >>> that it allows a client to communicate with multiple peers using a >>> single relay address. >>>=20 >>> The TURN protocol was designed to be used as part of the ICE >>> (Interactive Connectivity Establishment) approach to NAT = traversal, >>> though it also can be used without ICE. >>>=20 >>> This document obsoletes RFC 5766 and RFC 6156. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-turnbis/ >>>=20 >>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19 >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19 >>>=20 >>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>=20 >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tram mailing list >>> tram@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> tram mailing list >> tram@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram >>=20 >=20 > -- > Brandon Williams > Platform Engineering > Akamai Technologies Inc. --Apple-Mail=_89E24078-B9FA-4462-8829-47A79E5DE8F2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; 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Mon, 13 Aug 2018 08:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.2.142] ([160.79.219.114]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p21-v6sm11900426qtb.32.2018.08.13.08.28.20 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 13 Aug 2018 08:28:21 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Lennox In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 11:28:20 -0400 Cc: tram@ietf.org, Eric Rescorla , Cullen Jennings , Nils Ohlmeier , Justin Uberti , "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4A9C259E-A978-4556-97A7-E638CD0699EB@vidyo.com> References: <152809326560.20924.1993421118096117008@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Brandon Williams X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19.txt X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 15:28:25 -0000 I=E2=80=99d also like to get security review of this change, especially = from the perspective of people running firewalls. One of the design goals of TURN originally was that it behave like an = address-dependent filtering firewall / NAT =E2=80=94 you can=E2=80=99t = get incoming traffic from a peer you don=E2=80=99t already know about. = This was so it can=E2=80=99t be used to tunnel connections to an open = server behind a firewall, e.g. to allow a controller somewhere on the = open Internet to contact malware running inside a corporate network. Thus, network operators can be more confident about allowing TURN = traffic out through their firewalls. Permissionless ICE relay support breaks this guarantee, if you can = tunnel your traffic to make it look like ICE connectivity checks, and = I=E2=80=99m worried it will make operators less willing to allow TURN = out of their networks. Now, maybe the relevant operators are already not allowing TURN, or = there are already plenty of ways to tunnel in traffic, so this isn=E2=80=99= t a concern. But if we change this property, I=E2=80=99d like to make = sure we=E2=80=99re doing so with full consciousness and deliberation. > On Aug 10, 2018, at 3:35 PM, Brandon Williams = wrote: >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > The one remaining item that I have been hoping for before submitted > turnbis for publication is review of permissionless ICE relay support > from someone who intends to make use of this new feature in the > protocol. I attempted to get commitments for review from EKR and = Cullen > in Montreal, but they were each busy enough with other things that = they > weren't prepared to make such a commitment. So, with that in mind, I > have a couple of questions for the list. >=20 > For those of you who have reviewed this new content (namely Nils, > Justin, and Ram): Have any of you implemented support for this > capability? Or do you intend to in the near future? >=20 > For the rest of you, is there anyone who has not reviewed the changes > yet who has implemented these changes? >=20 > I'm mostly concerned about verifying that an implementor has looked at > this carefully enough to be confident that it can be implemented > effectively, especially as regards relevant security controls to = protect > the client that is behind a relay that supports this capability. >=20 > I'll appreciate any feedback from the list about this. >=20 > Thanks, > --Brandon >=20 > On 06/04/2018 02:24 AM, Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy wrote: >> This revision addresses comments from Justin. >>=20 >> -Tiru >>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: tram [mailto:tram-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet- >>> drafts@ietf.org >>> Sent: Monday, June 4, 2018 11:51 AM >>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >>> Cc: tram@ietf.org >>> Subject: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19.txt >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >>> This draft is a work item of the TURN Revised and Modernized WG of = the IETF. >>>=20 >>> Title : Traversal Using Relays around NAT (TURN): = Relay Extensions >>> to Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) >>> Authors : Tirumaleswar Reddy >>> Alan Johnston >>> Philip Matthews >>> Jonathan Rosenberg >>> Filename : draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19.txt >>> Pages : 84 >>> Date : 2018-06-03 >>>=20 >>> Abstract: >>> If a host is located behind a NAT, then in certain situations it = can >>> be impossible for that host to communicate directly with other = hosts >>> (peers). In these situations, it is necessary for the host to use >>> the services of an intermediate node that acts as a communication >>> relay. This specification defines a protocol, called TURN = (Traversal >>> Using Relays around NAT), that allows the host to control the >>> operation of the relay and to exchange packets with its peers = using >>> the relay. TURN differs from some other relay control protocols = in >>> that it allows a client to communicate with multiple peers using a >>> single relay address. >>>=20 >>> The TURN protocol was designed to be used as part of the ICE >>> (Interactive Connectivity Establishment) approach to NAT = traversal, >>> though it also can be used without ICE. >>>=20 >>> This document obsoletes RFC 5766 and RFC 6156. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-turnbis/ >>>=20 >>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19 >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19 >>>=20 >>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>=20 >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tram mailing list >>> tram@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> tram mailing list >> tram@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram >>=20 >=20 > --=20 > Brandon Williams > Platform Engineering > Akamai Technologies Inc. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > tram mailing list > tram@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tram >=20 From nobody Tue Aug 14 00:30:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A65130D7A; 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Tue, 14 Aug 2018 01:29:20 -0600 Received: from BN6PR16MB1425.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (10.172.207.19) by BN6PR16MB1524.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (10.172.208.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1038.23; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 07:29:22 +0000 Received: from BN6PR16MB1425.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::19f3:f489:712f:e2b2]) by BN6PR16MB1425.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::19f3:f489:712f:e2b2%7]) with mapi id 15.20.1038.025; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 07:29:22 +0000 From: "Konda, Tirumaleswar Reddy" To: Jonathan Lennox , Brandon Williams CC: Cullen Jennings , Eric Rescorla , "tram@ietf.org" , Justin Uberti , "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , Nils Ohlmeier Thread-Topic: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-turnbis-19.txt Thread-Index: AQHT+8xh/jJZZ9WI/kiamzsF73X1WKRPoaJggGopW4CABHHxAIAA772Q Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 07:29:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <152809326560.20924.1993421118096117008@ietfa.amsl.com> <4A9C259E-A978-4556-97A7-E638CD0699EB@vidyo.com> In-Reply-To: <4A9C259E-A978-4556-97A7-E638CD0699EB@vidyo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: dlp-product: dlpe-windows dlp-version: 11.0.500.52 dlp-reaction: no-action authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=TirumaleswarReddy_Konda@McAfee.com; 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([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pFV9OkgxuF98; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implementers.org (unknown [92.243.22.217]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F9E0130E65; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 09:08:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:648:8400:8e7d:d467:42b4:d0c3:3ec9] (unknown [IPv6:2601:648:8400:8e7d:d467:42b4:d0c3:3ec9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 925DAAE002; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 18:07:59 +0200 (CEST) From: Marc Petit-Huguenin To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Cc: draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org, tram-chairs@ietf.org, tram@ietf.org, Tolga Asveren References: <152421676370.10784.8969648253452773656.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 16:08:16 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --5JpZrfy9n4F1sajG1UyDFPKlSMNWMuNva Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="wRWJc4dJbO7SifTNS4NBysK3VrUqVWQ6R"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marc Petit-Huguenin To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Cc: draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org, tram-chairs@ietf.org, tram@ietf.org, Tolga Asveren Message-ID: Subject: Re: Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-07 References: <152421676370.10784.8969648253452773656.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55552202-8550-235b-b907-5f7dd65dbde2@petit-huguenin.org> In-Reply-To: --wRWJc4dJbO7SifTNS4NBysK3VrUqVWQ6R Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi SPencer, Sorry for the delay on resolving that issue. See below for my answer. On 05/15/2018 08:33 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > Hi, Marc, >=20 > On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 6:50 PM, Marc Petit-Huguenin < > marc@petit-huguenin.org> wrote: >=20 [...] >> >>> >>> If using authentication in >>> >>> UDP-based protocols that want to use any of these mechanisms, >>> including the PMTUD-SUPPORTED attribute, to signal PMTUD capabilit= ies >>> MUST ensure that it cannot be used to launch an amplification atta= ck. >>> For example, using authentication can ensure this. >>> >>> is only one way to ensure prevention of amplification attacks, is the= re >> any >>> guidance or reference you could point to that would help implementers= >>> evaluate other approaches? >> >> It's a good question. I have to think about that. >> >=20 > Thanks for the quick and thorough responses. >=20 > I think I'm good on your responses for all my other questions. I'll let= the > working group chew on this one, and let the chairs/shepherd let me know= > when to request Last Call. >=20 As far as I can tell, there is 3 major ways of preventing source IP spoof= ing at this layer, but I was not able to find a unique reference that poi= nts to an explanation to these. So the plan is to add, after some copy-editing with my co-editor, the fol= lowing text in replacement of the "For example, using authentication can = ensure this." sentence: " An amplification attack can be prevented using three different techniques: o Authentication, where the source of the packet and the destination share a secret. o 3 way handshake with some form of unpredictable cookie. o Make sure that the total size of the traffic potentially generated is lower than the size of the request that generated it." Would that resolve that issue? Thanks. --=20 Marc Petit-Huguenin Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug --wRWJc4dJbO7SifTNS4NBysK3VrUqVWQ6R-- --5JpZrfy9n4F1sajG1UyDFPKlSMNWMuNva Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEBSI+IuCHU8MsI1GjKcRFldZqfsQFAlt6510ACgkQKcRFldZq fsT6hw/+L+5fPGzH9r8ZddFM1zY6hCdm7V2D00GBZ0i/4YPYFTEN8u8c1U+G+fct D+ylag9jWEzIn+6kgLiqDVhIm+SbW31AV4IKIlpmA9sQ3WxfGaCNnqjc6tGiyDe5 r0YLpOxMaMIm5LHht6sA6gw1woKBeueOfkPecBQnwRl6mAHjQQNSfN9zxkRbPznn Erz4ZyWYGyPymGhZDh4+PvaNE9muFpYndFdPyG1SjA76WUeDmJT2eopHyxtC5LMi yIEgl3Z5rROi65TraRiZ++d65udFeJZXe7AqHGhE+KfNmtoKVhpJfBxN5LOIEuFz dFEtaWRmX4snb8cOEjCCo8/xmMBNaDo9nO5N/0QIFduwwOTxaqB48sZP/4MdfJwS 05Ly63SEvNzUP7XIVNJQtzua/clREBI5fYursxXWIu3ipC8cjSi1nS9DfckdRzaF sSmBf91+aT7GOfGVoFBrtUzTc1WWT3Lj0a21D6PhkJ9MJkb3cu4tTAlTW5hAlg+X GkYtV66ZOt0slsSjosfr/dlZU8QKJxPIE/qhSHpUmjCCRA54DUlOEJUMuvrXklJZ Dpr1Qci2LaDRuhM9TJ0FJ1a/QZGDWOKJYZFmTSbLZvRwzJhHTgkgYhztN5lsNvL0 FYERgAbBtXKEpvSt5Zrj4KTOFiwsfzoINu2Rggai5YuZb1IBQoo= =t1kZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --5JpZrfy9n4F1sajG1UyDFPKlSMNWMuNva-- From nobody Mon Aug 20 10:32:09 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2126B130DC1; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 10:32:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o6E6LqJH4Zj3; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 10:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw1-xc36.google.com (mail-yw1-xc36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 76E45130D7A; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 10:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw1-xc36.google.com with SMTP id s68-v6so7119026ywg.2; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 10:32:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6OwYoVaZsutHaHqIDGv6Fm66MkCyd3/Ah2ozYnwpXi8=; b=YUzP+tPANSfhdLYGHn7yBbWZo/G0HQW4KkWTv7vWNUEWSEMpoLCzW1b8ocLT7vilgS talGMj8HC2N/cMMNwEogXDeX1QBBwDN7uDYG/cJpkWUMHISzu6HJ4crU3T/oO3xjWSoD kS26EXpE7aF5i7VKT9qPYtRfrmIyD3BTdXkxt+aklH0DERfRHghGzFwmVCI/ePNAMSoO hgEDSpqjIVkKQRv9MnLBNKBU1HQt597gxb3UTBLpg4oay64UixnzW9ze8GmRICpAuCXd tDt9etSMPRKOESUxKGjTF2VQnZWXWXRZ+0GRKpnJathMsN74X3pMrmPPVL7w0eMfkrH0 KhIA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6OwYoVaZsutHaHqIDGv6Fm66MkCyd3/Ah2ozYnwpXi8=; b=FP4WwzgDHnTZ7TvmjN/BH6D1f2aJMPFzzwnv8E/8BCC2QC+GgD/OguR2JfOA+E8f/G BHWVVtyex3Ce4O6Ii8zJ4Zvf2l6QULAwBSEMiuqGI0mGRNNA/3v4e/Fl1rKDZu5IUMew 4YbTPtSrMdeQ1Zok6vpHdKTiw7jQxa9EwjYZjn0+Q5pLuUuAJ8n41eGOZk9QCS1mfV4H 0sMmRlW/UN+MFWdBcRIR4YdbvR8X1maoUTcr3aU6QfEjGT2s+3cjJiAZmDTmQNgKqwlB rQHJ/dGXr90XSAzwaslkBh/dAirLEFyGYPOK6ZESd3KfMFsYyrF7oh8VlvfthnXMF8Cq X0Sg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlEIwYHWef8ZsswIZNIRLYBayXhfYomDwj2iIhQxsprxByu/X4MQ kZbvScFGC6SyVNseOY+N06ZsWSC7TTho5BjEYwM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPz5rYBiYudgjaga+5gKve243cis+RzizBMPpqM3S3L7Sa6x5gtLsqTOOxPCOJUTnsCrEzcBS95wbfuLkArUUSQ= X-Received: by 2002:a81:4dd5:: with SMTP id a204-v6mr5933820ywb.179.1534786324463; Mon, 20 Aug 2018 10:32:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <152421676370.10784.8969648253452773656.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55552202-8550-235b-b907-5f7dd65dbde2@petit-huguenin.org> In-Reply-To: From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 12:31:52 -0500 Message-ID: To: Marc Petit-Huguenin Cc: draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org, tram-chairs@ietf.org, tram@ietf.org, "Asveren, Tolga" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ad081d0573e1494b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tram] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-07 X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2018 17:32:08 -0000 --000000000000ad081d0573e1494b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Marc, On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 11:08 AM Marc Petit-Huguenin < marc@petit-huguenin.org> wrote: > Hi SPencer, > > Sorry for the delay on resolving that issue. See below for my answer. > > On 05/15/2018 08:33 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > > Hi, Marc, > > > > On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 6:50 PM, Marc Petit-Huguenin < > > marc@petit-huguenin.org> wrote: > > > > [...] > > >> > >>> > >>> If using authentication in > >>> > >>> UDP-based protocols that want to use any of these mechanisms, > >>> including the PMTUD-SUPPORTED attribute, to signal PMTUD > capabilities > >>> MUST ensure that it cannot be used to launch an amplification > attack. > >>> For example, using authentication can ensure this. > >>> > >>> is only one way to ensure prevention of amplification attacks, is there > >> any > >>> guidance or reference you could point to that would help implementers > >>> evaluate other approaches? > >> > >> It's a good question. I have to think about that. > >> > > > > Thanks for the quick and thorough responses. > > > > I think I'm good on your responses for all my other questions. I'll let > the > > working group chew on this one, and let the chairs/shepherd let me know > > when to request Last Call. > > > > As far as I can tell, there is 3 major ways of preventing source IP > spoofing at this layer, but I was not able to find a unique reference that > points to an explanation to these. > > So the plan is to add, after some copy-editing with my co-editor, the > following text in replacement of the "For example, using authentication can > ensure this." sentence: > > > " An amplification attack can be prevented using three different > techniques: > > o Authentication, where the source of the packet and the destination > share a secret. > > o 3 way handshake with some form of unpredictable cookie. > > o Make sure that the total size of the traffic potentially generated > is lower than the size of the request that generated it." > > > Would that resolve that issue? > Yes, it would. I was hoping there would be a good reference you can point to, but if there's not, this is helpful. I might suggest that your first sentence be something like "An amplification attack can be prevented using techniques such as:" just in case a security reviewer happens to know of a fourth technique. But I'll let you and Gonzalo do the right thing, and I'll request Last Call for your next version. Thanks for chasing this down! Spencer > Thanks. > > -- > Marc Petit-Huguenin > Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org > Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org > Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug > > > > --000000000000ad081d0573e1494b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Marc,=C2=A0

On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 11:08 AM Marc Petit-Huguenin <marc@petit-huguenin.org> wrote:<= br>
Hi SPencer,

Sorry for the delay on resolving that issue.=C2=A0 See below for my answer.=

On 05/15/2018 08:33 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote:
> Hi, Marc,
>
> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 6:50 PM, Marc Petit-Huguenin <
> marc@peti= t-huguenin.org> wrote:
>

[...]

>>
>>>
>>> If using authentication in
>>>
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0UDP-based protocols that want to use any of these = mechanisms,
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 including the PMTUD-SUPPORTED attribute, to signa= l PMTUD capabilities
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 MUST ensure that it cannot be used to launch an a= mplification attack.
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 For example, using authentication can ensure this= .
>>>
>>> is only one way to ensure prevention of amplification attacks,= is there
>> any
>>> guidance or reference you could point to that would help imple= menters
>>> evaluate other approaches?
>>
>> It's a good question.=C2=A0 I have to think about that.
>>
>
> Thanks for the quick and thorough responses.
>
> I think I'm good on your responses for all my other questions. I&#= 39;ll let the
> working group chew on this one, and let the chairs/shepherd let me kno= w
> when to request Last Call.
>

As far as I can tell, there is 3 major ways of preventing source IP spoofin= g at this layer, but I was not able to find a unique reference that points = to an explanation to these.

So the plan is to add, after some copy-editing with my co-editor, the follo= wing text in replacement of the "For example, using authentication can= ensure this." sentence:


"=C2=A0 An amplification attack can be prevented using three different=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0techniques:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Authentication, where the source of the packet and the= destination
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 share a secret.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 3 way handshake with some form of unpredictable cookie= .

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Make sure that the total size of the traffic potential= ly generated
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is lower than the size of the request that generated i= t."


Would that resolve that issue?

Yes, it = would.=C2=A0

I was hoping there would be a good re= ference you can point to, but if there's not, this is helpful.=C2=A0

I might suggest that your first sentence be somethin= g like=C2=A0

"An amplification attack can be = prevented using techniques such as:"=C2=A0

ju= st in case a security reviewer happens to know of a fourth technique. But I= 'll let you and Gonzalo do the right thing, and I'll request Last C= all for your next version.

Thanks for chasing this= down!

Spencer
=C2=A0
Thanks.

--
Marc Petit-Huguenin
Email: marc@pe= tit-huguenin.org
Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org
Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug



--000000000000ad081d0573e1494b-- From nobody Sat Aug 25 14:56:13 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietf.org Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F33A8130EE8; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 14:56:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: tram@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tram@ietf.org Message-ID: <153523416492.2962.6885092578249496527@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 14:56:04 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [tram] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-09.txt X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 21:56:05 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the TURN Revised and Modernized WG of the IETF. Title : Path MTU Discovery Using Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) Authors : Marc Petit-Huguenin Gonzalo Salgueiro Filename : draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-09.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2018-08-25 Abstract: This document describes a Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) Usage for Path MTU Discovery (PMTUD) between a client and a server. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Aug 29 04:54:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D08DF129AB8; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 04:54:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wJCvEQirmmDC; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 04:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implementers.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:4b98:dc0:45:216:3eff:fe7f:7abd]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BFE1130E85; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 04:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:648:8400:8e7d:5445:8b08:3b93:5610] (unknown [IPv6:2601:648:8400:8e7d:5445:8b08:3b93:5610]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60429AE004; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 13:54:10 +0200 (CEST) To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Cc: draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org, tram-chairs@ietf.org, tram@ietf.org, "Asveren, Tolga" References: <152421676370.10784.8969648253452773656.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55552202-8550-235b-b907-5f7dd65dbde2@petit-huguenin.org> From: Marc Petit-Huguenin Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=marc@petit-huguenin.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE6Mh9wBEADrUEDZChteJbQtsHwZITZExr7TAqT7pniNwhBX3nFgd+FrV3lsLKJ1rym2 52MAYpubXEJZGzMp6uCCAnROWbtmQbOm8z/jHnjxHhPqfuYCYPpAQqu8K/Sc194Rp37krMwB jz32yr7+gvWLzRgQGKIh9d2mzy8QLMETVWWQWGb6fEfpOxXo0wumN1rc/275kZwOu44JIPGg zbgwZdnEqYOUUa18K9MXeRDoWbwDISP30CvKuZDwD14lbBE3o7tBQrU9uoMhE7eFlTjbsCox qoubI2tZSuOTF8mRXjPmNrRGtf9mYkQnOB7y6qy/QxmOVMq4IRtHzOYIm/EZ6NTodcpZQHOM 2v6B6YK9uKrYrapSpJzn4f9oU7alT31Y3o2hOlxAWDQ16+Dd1MOPYsKQXOwY1/ihm4PTjiJ8 ud8yPzy7c+BSVs5wkBU6QuLNIgZHrrxdn+KxM+F/oAVtfzO7XzVoeOcXyWi3/CHL5pgoBruY enIF/RrRuplpy09pvZjmFPNfqKBYJGnqpQuqsQwO7LsFqDqfY2EuHg+KsGN1XuN+jxXc48/1 gCnKw7ALSPWEb7g25wD6KfiZTAcyRTG8LePNFQKhw61LbIWmkw9EaVLyXvwPTc1iCSc0dDT/ pcT/z+8xrWOyWGZNZAjR584NlDpKollbItcxYtFcYZkvTCmOVwARAQABtDFNYXJjIFBldGl0 LUh1Z3VlbmluIDxtYXJjLnBldGl0LWh1Z3VlbmluQDh4OC5jb20+iQJOBBMBCAA4FiEEBSI+ IuCHU8MsI1GjKcRFldZqfsQFAlgqCm0CGyMFCwkIBwIGFQgJCgsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ KcRFldZqfsTWsRAAjh/m618wTGN0NauvycFi4tku1pfsCbU8/Sh1F3fp8TJiZN77g1i46G24 1w3/d5lc7Wx5FolAvE9+lxu4pVFJt4pNQ0oChaCJhjrvqmYP56fuu2Jpw+deRDYpnElYUbCc k+3/mB3st+3jERVAE0J4Vtt/SpjJKuG9WoEpNd20qXADWMkJJAow9qtR0uzbIM0Xiw/nlvNV Exq1387YuGnWonsdzWOTalf0v6R2fv0/rn9XKTzI4ieKwpszlOxVOK8djbc/J+uICd3Popmg dVz8JKj1Zuk6GBPlint1HmpEv1IClxb4DgfUXb03qVdnF08tb5usZwjrVaFGoQ8AsZf3BNgC y3pG9/0x4SsVsKl6uOh5erUFCU8SI43J2GoZuFS26v3msQUIIsuQCJpk2l+gCeNBlvn8fAgf yOXiReexWEHy76BzvlPGu77fFyiLgxzHL/jUl5oLrO2DxuizG82UVtrwqOHyj7Gge1qwbyQz 64haUeA/dmSnvBB3v/VHgIEf7dEY7Pp7sXaHA4LYhBWXfKbDsNeoa4X4XQz7fkBj44YMnSzf pvLZrTX/mAmcU6IZzdwVQVBmA/35EF3WoYPer7rfubI7zFShTCY35mjN88apFoC+cNJsrjbt I/1TeLIU+tZTmEsU719+vdaFCyhOXmzRmVB7gknZlUuTXNJY0XC5Ag0EToyH3AEQAL+LguHh cSDCL/IevdcvH/5/fzO2fmuuTxdGwrZZSm7l6/HD2Irah6Wpa1LvVeRbnsRq8k6O8/i3wVap EoQPmNY3vjWfXaJb8R4vHcqgcxw9N9jhZa+mvGJk9+cIilDyPzHRBBID4d/3oFKQCQ4Y2SIk O66znPhfBOS2f2AU7AtXHhVEyj6WsLK6boEMcj7j+w5aes2nZam0jhgoz+4DQem4uk8outrR lboGnZN7A2kCNuy39UeOp7BpvQ95IKcJCIeSoiJt2A4BNPQroqhW0zGn9Y9FJ9UiZ9YIeNPY bscUxxvrD+OU9Jv67hW0v3KfvoIKDwVKpO3MW6o+1teSGt1KCSz+CvGJCvIxfCk7S5K5SBne 7ZNKz7rkGXYIzlyr7ZoEgRHmqGmcK/sHTS4e6g2pQQrRUSkspyqLZl5Uzmg7yI5oGBL0aHTz YdDkkOKMRXYnl7ivBeNtGcniGqlONLJxpbwec8j7hLRqpXFuepbtPqX/GefuK8rdo+ppEqpR J50cJTegchTfWfSjn5/mG1B4Oz9OnOcBEeTLO729n0K9BeTx1pmisD6P/fyrqZZTozDwVEi7 Wo9AOaqWOhuTe8L0FlFIk6fc/yM0wzvDWP7sNrevEYHKV9rd+Yc/Jjt293J4uayrt6DNMmSk Aw3nlBq3uK5d54J0FAsAUcsE/W2/ABEBAAGJAh8EGAEIAAkCGwwFAlfy11wACgkQKcRFldZq fsSQyA/+Kx3eWtKyb/y35TjgtjT/Hrtw+aIpr1uK97LAln1j5m7+lQ/jh0/rvSZjs+YQMYLq VGI8oaaF/u+qrokkU6pfrhVZ49D1BmmSTMBSYgnBDYqZyZ+uzQnnDYt/mpo2OLbl9BhuifR5 QXLp43cE1FIhyDT46wfse5tNZ+ll4m4HtXuTw4W3b4cPHto10260Mki7hXbkDMZ+icBFDMkr rZyYHSnBhelzIM7XnY7A/XZdulfFcDXEcZhAFEv3ylJsxTnGwzDyP1VAdBFL3hpP1CqfP1Kt i4hKcxXZYbIgTSsBjcYbPchw3ktUTU29I/nWKH5gmD+qwFizyhtt8Qhl6U67OdZ/XbRGBXs/ 7tlYJIGiGZyG7IQtDOX0PsVd+6WRcDdFqkpBwYkxU8gdiCeW+YTQ5d8mXXPT2dhFAeK2hCFa 2+IdaXvH8ovjZpTMeKstHrWJUDaSqQ4GFT676DbDyqtmP6Ul9cjGVtXIs64FWqR9wrbwBH1G uIHhDmG9sN5AkyB9mxXaEG3uG4E6qQeedtIKC6p+ebAsaTGgztFWMJDC8LUznu7B0oyWxNVo E/RGt5mesOeAtqYr6Jtdh7unyk8BYP1y4e+SSMwvtwh+69tJwNhGYbOJrdX34tXNAKb6r/rF RjVJm+sPPs5ok7LddvV35o+Fho0LRNDsioDV3HytlhA= Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 04:54:02 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="CBXlQvIkzps2vLOm9DzeASNBX1TG03V0k" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tram] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-07 X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:54:16 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --CBXlQvIkzps2vLOm9DzeASNBX1TG03V0k Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Bn7A0b4zbp9xfDW3xqICeMBUkvZAkGuhm"; protected-headers="v1" From: Marc Petit-Huguenin To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Cc: draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org, tram-chairs@ietf.org, tram@ietf.org, "Asveren, Tolga" Message-ID: Subject: Re: Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-07 References: <152421676370.10784.8969648253452773656.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55552202-8550-235b-b907-5f7dd65dbde2@petit-huguenin.org> In-Reply-To: --Bn7A0b4zbp9xfDW3xqICeMBUkvZAkGuhm Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Spencer, I case you missed the announcement, I published a new version of draft-ie= tf-tram-stun-pmtud with the modifications described in this thread. Thanks. On 08/20/2018 10:31 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: > Hi, Marc, >=20 > On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 11:08 AM Marc Petit-Huguenin < > marc@petit-huguenin.org> wrote: >=20 >> Hi SPencer, >> >> Sorry for the delay on resolving that issue. See below for my answer.= >> >> On 05/15/2018 08:33 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote: >>> Hi, Marc, >>> >>> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 6:50 PM, Marc Petit-Huguenin < >>> marc@petit-huguenin.org> wrote: >>> >> >> [...] >> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> If using authentication in >>>>> >>>>> UDP-based protocols that want to use any of these mechanisms, >>>>> including the PMTUD-SUPPORTED attribute, to signal PMTUD >> capabilities >>>>> MUST ensure that it cannot be used to launch an amplification >> attack. >>>>> For example, using authentication can ensure this. >>>>> >>>>> is only one way to ensure prevention of amplification attacks, is t= here >>>> any >>>>> guidance or reference you could point to that would help implemente= rs >>>>> evaluate other approaches? >>>> >>>> It's a good question. I have to think about that. >>>> >>> >>> Thanks for the quick and thorough responses. >>> >>> I think I'm good on your responses for all my other questions. I'll l= et >> the >>> working group chew on this one, and let the chairs/shepherd let me kn= ow >>> when to request Last Call. >>> >> >> As far as I can tell, there is 3 major ways of preventing source IP >> spoofing at this layer, but I was not able to find a unique reference = that >> points to an explanation to these. >> >> So the plan is to add, after some copy-editing with my co-editor, the >> following text in replacement of the "For example, using authenticatio= n can >> ensure this." sentence: >> >> >> " An amplification attack can be prevented using three different >> techniques: >> >> o Authentication, where the source of the packet and the destinati= on >> share a secret. >> >> o 3 way handshake with some form of unpredictable cookie. >> >> o Make sure that the total size of the traffic potentially generat= ed >> is lower than the size of the request that generated it." >> >> >> Would that resolve that issue? >> >=20 > Yes, it would. >=20 > I was hoping there would be a good reference you can point to, but if > there's not, this is helpful. >=20 > I might suggest that your first sentence be something like >=20 > "An amplification attack can be prevented using techniques such as:" >=20 > just in case a security reviewer happens to know of a fourth technique.= But > I'll let you and Gonzalo do the right thing, and I'll request Last Call= for > your next version. >=20 > Thanks for chasing this down! >=20 > Spencer >=20 >=20 >> Thanks. >> >=20 --=20 Marc Petit-Huguenin Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug --Bn7A0b4zbp9xfDW3xqICeMBUkvZAkGuhm-- --CBXlQvIkzps2vLOm9DzeASNBX1TG03V0k Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEBSI+IuCHU8MsI1GjKcRFldZqfsQFAluGiVoACgkQKcRFldZq fsQg8w//awF/OdVfOp94g3VWtGJ2mwrXerdDVhy9q36hb13OaLk3bObnNQWa0qA7 hdvgi4L0bHAbsm3i8YDbCz6a5BsUfF6S3j5/wLR2fnZBegpxsD2Ao5qE0CQSlRVL 0AcwUlaY6ssZh/eZorKGtF0qTTADV8oOScj3ptuJSYUK+iTuLGBSLx9UTO7ZVYz4 GP18USFGTMIPuLLfVvdetihIWAqZFUogpREcIPCiqMeofWEROabo/3LIid8dfxJt TjXlyc5W2VrNAGVLGF9X3E2jQkBs+/8kDi9fP3t8cwq8QWngpZ32wh0t0TS1VwMo zo5/HRWwm6zO/TsgPirL8iOUYAjU69Af+QYvZc3z1A65qkpX4aIH6iCURV0rXr9N VEHQjMD/XKFxWyORyGxrN2TE+wvPEbWVWOJDz9p1CllC9zTlS80C70xTRblZxIWV mA+UKv6LA7w0Sre749gxoeBvXRA0GUeuVS7LtbnqWhL18isKOkbj/gik+u//HIHh ObAId/QA/z7/O58k1fD6TMWzLwEJK/XCoCaZnl1lqjVOy+Pq0YcJQvkR+XGDUhhF jahdyEVLxBgsmsHfe69/UFo1SzqTornmmpcHZ6wkEJQNwp/frfGY2rA6wsEyMrcl ETflf+suJmRFK0nxssFOdCOQYwIx++O/gG8PW+KiBDUOnTlm7h4= =pbEe -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --CBXlQvIkzps2vLOm9DzeASNBX1TG03V0k-- From nobody Wed Aug 29 07:57:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07FF0130EBE; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 07:57:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qV8xJ_ImSkWG; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 07:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb0-x234.google.com (mail-yb0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EE2A130EAE; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 07:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb0-x234.google.com with SMTP id o17-v6so2116113yba.2; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 07:57:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LUtMiIhPzSz6v1m84MCWL8xcCEdoZ6wtLR0prbdxeLE=; b=HnVxnkwSM+5rJf0ccoqPwKRSC0rhX+uLshFCoJahMNZLlNSznpQd/1MTAEp8F2L+5p U2KJSZr1//CNvfmxMftLJBTsFAS0GuM3w7YpMf3YNUAGWrf5TrJoAypLYVloSeym/TV8 VziiiYP87tq+oMAlyW1mdPCNrvUWmgtFQStv2YmiKPxwYe7fPztMHR0kHcwGNjnpEGRB gPFY8Gp0tzeUrBZOwftxOBrjKliB6MFWaITuVH+1F92EcGhTXVOkPerUlq9cawYkFNWs AsGXpJGOORTy1FpudmGMm5VpiXrbRl3ERa/4TdvbktqLnA71M8RqawHr1vgEncqws2lg ooTQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LUtMiIhPzSz6v1m84MCWL8xcCEdoZ6wtLR0prbdxeLE=; b=K04RxZrtiI4tHYUWY86zvEwTMwlon5V9iTXtrxdIq0CFyG8Rypa/w4K8VNY5nzAyYd CH9L6AVb/zFRbq1P+2RSJofQBwf/FEUEN1ImY6y1M/tw9DO9e3OBOURK57r5khooLJFZ cqWRSbm85scELXbboxr3N0/LZSqh+a6WIfv8Ty58UK2bngHI2ikFRkco3vT2O1OwNWGQ dOKw5ND7oJ1TBhsfcvWjjEISPZKp2XUnV5UbS0vOc4ulihJDi46CkbWDhpW3qetDB+8k wJXvN/y1hCuy9wPy8FcYDFNS68ZjitQ2athSwAU2Ev5w4xJsTuUw9RcB3D3j1JWXU0YM y6FQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51DuwOXNgMW6eID4Oluf+vJK1uDL2en1zI+Y98WxOWSg4qA//S/Y 2kiPqbYo3qtNGNAQ+YP3owpsfmXe53Qsb+cInxc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdYcGpBy0DmGeg9yPXhJqXeRA3rTWDl5zindSScIHnK2x4qNaeQ/GlklSLecmzhfCwuyNgkRZgchlqIVeK2ycIo= X-Received: by 2002:a25:570b:: with SMTP id l11-v6mr3331570ybb.490.1535554622366; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 07:57:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <152421676370.10784.8969648253452773656.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <55552202-8550-235b-b907-5f7dd65dbde2@petit-huguenin.org> In-Reply-To: From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 09:56:50 -0500 Message-ID: To: Marc Petit-Huguenin Cc: draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org, tram-chairs@ietf.org, tram@ietf.org, "Asveren, Tolga" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ccaace0574942be2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tram] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud-07 X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 14:57:18 -0000 --000000000000ccaace0574942be2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Marc, On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 6:54 AM Marc Petit-Huguenin wrote: > Hi Spencer, > > I case you missed the announcement, I published a new version of > draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud with the modifications described in this thread. > "Missed" is too strong a word, but I sure didn't request Last Call when I saw that you'd done that. Sorry! And I just requested Last Call a moment ago. Thanks for chasing the last question for me. Spencer --000000000000ccaace0574942be2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Marc,=C2=A0

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 6:54 AM Marc Petit-Huguenin <marc@petit-huguenin.org> wrote:<= br>
Hi Spencer,

I case you missed the announcement, I published a new version of draft-ietf= -tram-stun-pmtud with the modifications described in this thread.

"Missed" is too strong a word, but I s= ure didn't request Last Call when I saw that you'd done that.=C2=A0=

Sorry! And I just requested Last Call a moment ag= o.

Thanks for chasing the last question for me.

Spencer=C2=A0
--000000000000ccaace0574942be2-- From nobody Wed Aug 29 09:04:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tram@ietf.org Delivered-To: tram@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA69130DD9; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 09:04:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: tram-chairs@ietf.org, tram@ietf.org, Tolga Asveren , tasveren@rbbn.com, spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com, Gonzalo Camarillo , draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud@ietf.org Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Message-ID: <153555866076.14917.1997729596064110592.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 09:04:20 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [tram] Last Call: (Path MTU Discovery Using Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN)) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: tram@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: "Discussing the creation of a Turn Revised And Modernized \(TRAM\) WG, which goal is to consolidate the various initiatives to update TURN and STUN." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 16:04:21 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the TURN Revised and Modernized WG (tram) to consider the following document: - 'Path MTU Discovery Using Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN)' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2018-09-12. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document describes a Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) Usage for Path MTU Discovery (PMTUD) between a client and a server. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tram-stun-pmtud/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.