
From nobody Fri Apr  1 10:50:48 2016
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Subject: Re: [Trans] [trans] #124 (rfc6962-bis): introduction needs work
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#124: introduction needs work

Changes (by melinda.shore@gmail.com):

 * status:  new => closed
 * resolution:   => wontfix


-- 
--------------------------+---------------------------
 Reporter:  kent@bbn.com  |       Owner:  kent@bbn.com
     Type:  defect        |      Status:  closed
 Priority:  major         |   Milestone:
Component:  rfc6962-bis   |     Version:
 Severity:  -             |  Resolution:  wontfix
 Keywords:                |
--------------------------+---------------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/trans/trac/ticket/124#comment:2>
trans <https://tools.ietf.org/trans/>


From nobody Fri Apr  1 12:56:20 2016
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From: Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com>
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Subject: [Trans] revisions to Section 3.3 and 3.4
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I'll be working on these revisions in response to comments from various 
sources,
while many of you are enjoying sunny days in BA.

Steve


From nobody Fri Apr  1 17:35:42 2016
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Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 1, 2016, at 16:56, Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com> wrote:
>=20
> I'll be working on these revisions in response to comments from various so=
urces,
> while many of you are enjoying sunny days in BA.
>=20

A bunch of is waited 45 minutes for a taxi and none came because it was rain=
ing too hard


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> Steve
> 
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> Trans@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Trans] [trans] #101 (gossip): Handle Shutdown Log Case
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#101: Handle Shutdown Log Case

Changes (by linus@nordu.net):

 * owner:  draft-ietf-trans-threat-analysis@tools.ietf.org =>
     melinda.shore@gmail.com


-- 
---------------------------+--------------------------------------
 Reporter:  tom@ritter.vg  |       Owner:  melinda.shore@gmail.com
     Type:  defect         |      Status:  new
 Priority:  major          |   Milestone:
Component:  gossip         |     Version:
 Severity:  -              |  Resolution:
 Keywords:                 |
---------------------------+--------------------------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/trans/trac/ticket/101#comment:2>
trans <https://tools.ietf.org/trans/>


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#103: Evaluate if we need tighter requirements around STHs when we take into
account multiple logs.

Changes (by linus@nordu.net):

 * owner:  draft-ietf-trans-threat-analysis@tools.ietf.org =>
            linus@nordu.net
 * status:  new => assigned


-- 
---------------------------+------------------------------
 Reporter:  tom@ritter.vg  |       Owner:  linus@nordu.net
     Type:  defect         |      Status:  assigned
 Priority:  major          |   Milestone:
Component:  gossip         |     Version:
 Severity:  -              |  Resolution:
 Keywords:                 |
---------------------------+------------------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/trans/trac/ticket/103#comment:2>
trans <https://tools.ietf.org/trans/>


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#101: Handle Shutdown Log Case

Changes (by melinda.shore@gmail.com):

 * status:  new => closed
 * resolution:   => fixed


-- 
---------------------------+--------------------------------------
 Reporter:  tom@ritter.vg  |       Owner:  melinda.shore@gmail.com
     Type:  defect         |      Status:  closed
 Priority:  major          |   Milestone:
Component:  gossip         |     Version:
 Severity:  -              |  Resolution:  fixed
 Keywords:                 |
---------------------------+--------------------------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/trans/trac/ticket/101#comment:3>
trans <https://tools.ietf.org/trans/>


From nobody Thu Apr  7 16:32:43 2016
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From: Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
To: "trans@ietf.org" <trans@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 16:32:36 -0700
Thread-Topic: Issue with redaction and CN-IDs
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Subject: [Trans] Issue with redaction and CN-IDs
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------=_NextPart_000_0615_01D190EB.17B90210
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Section 4.2 in 6962-bis says:
When a precertificate contains that extension and contains a CN-ID
   [RFC6125], the CN-ID MUST match the first DNS-ID and have the same
   labels redacted.  TLS clients will use the first entry in the
   SEQUENCE OF INTEGERs to reconstruct both the first DNS-ID and the CN-
   ID.

I'm aware of a problem (confirmed by Peter Bowen at Amazon) with Java7 and
Java8 where getting a new certificate with a different SAN ordering from the
previous one will prevent those Java clients from successfully validating
the new certificate, at least until the cache in the client expires the old
cert information. In most cases, we put the CN-ID in the first SAN field,
but there are exceptions made in cases like this.
        
I think the spec used to say that the first item in the SEQUENCE represented
the CN-ID, and I missed the discussion where that changed.

-Rick

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To: Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
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Subject: Re: [Trans] Issue with redaction and CN-IDs
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On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com> wrote:
> Section 4.2 in 6962-bis says:
> When a precertificate contains that extension and contains a CN-ID
>    [RFC6125], the CN-ID MUST match the first DNS-ID and have the same
>    labels redacted.  TLS clients will use the first entry in the
>    SEQUENCE OF INTEGERs to reconstruct both the first DNS-ID and the CN-
>    ID.
>
> I'm aware of a problem (confirmed by Peter Bowen at Amazon) with Java7 and
> Java8 where getting a new certificate with a different SAN ordering from the
> previous one will prevent those Java clients from successfully validating
> the new certificate, at least until the cache in the client expires the old
> cert information. In most cases, we put the CN-ID in the first SAN field,
> but there are exceptions made in cases like this.
>
> I think the spec used to say that the first item in the SEQUENCE represented
> the CN-ID, and I missed the discussion where that changed.

More than just working around bugs in Java, there are names that can
be placed in a dNSName entry that cannot be commonName value due to
length.  According to RFC5280, commonName has an upper bound of 64
total characters while dNSNames have a bound of 63 characters per
label and a total length limit in excess of 200 characters.  Therefore
a CA may not be able to place the first DNS-ID in the CN-ID field.

I also wonder how to handle multiple CN-IDs in a single certificate.
There is not, to my knowledge, a requirement that the Subject only
contain one attribute of type commonName.

Thanks,
Peter


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From: Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
To: Peter Bowen <pzbowen@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 17:46:19 -0700
Thread-Topic: [Trans] Issue with redaction and CN-IDs
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Subject: Re: [Trans] Issue with redaction and CN-IDs
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-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bowen [mailto:pzbowen@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 5:34 PM
To: Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
Cc: trans@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Trans] Issue with redaction and CN-IDs

<snip>

	I also wonder how to handle multiple CN-IDs in a single certificate.
	There is not, to my knowledge, a requirement that the Subject only contain 
one attribute of type commonName.

Dan Kaminsky's PKI Layer Cake paper 
(https://www.cosic.esat.kuleuven.be/publications/article-1432.pdf) exposed 
vulnerabilities around multiple CN-IDs, but we neglected to outlaw them in the 
CABF BRs.

-Rick

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Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 17:47:40 -0700
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From: Peter Bowen <pzbowen@gmail.com>
To: Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
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Subject: Re: [Trans] Issue with redaction and CN-IDs
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On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Bowen [mailto:pzbowen@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 5:34 PM
> To: Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
> Cc: trans@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Trans] Issue with redaction and CN-IDs
>
> <snip>
>
>         I also wonder how to handle multiple CN-IDs in a single certificate.
>         There is not, to my knowledge, a requirement that the Subject only contain
> one attribute of type commonName.
>
> Dan Kaminsky's PKI Layer Cake paper
> (https://www.cosic.esat.kuleuven.be/publications/article-1432.pdf) exposed
> vulnerabilities around multiple CN-IDs, but we neglected to outlaw them in the
> CABF BRs.

Ah, then ignore that question in the trans context.  We can fix in the
CABF context.


From nobody Fri Apr  8 02:59:05 2016
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To: Peter Bowen <pzbowen@gmail.com>, Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
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From: Rob Stradling <rob.stradling@comodo.com>
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Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2016 10:58:54 +0100
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Subject: Re: [Trans] Issue with redaction and CN-IDs
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The CABForum BRs say this:

"7.1.4.2.2. Subject Distinguished Name Fields
a. Certificate Field: subject:commonName (OID 2.5.4.3)
Required/Optional: Deprecated (Discouraged, but not prohibited)
Contents: If present, this field MUST contain a single IP address or 
Fully‐Qualified Domain Name that is one of the values contained in the 
Certificate's subjectAltName extension (see section 7.1.4.2.1)."

I believe the intent of "...MUST contain a single...that is one of the 
values..." was to outlaw multiple CN-IDs.  Clarification would help though.

On 08/04/16 01:47, Peter Bowen wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com> wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peter Bowen [mailto:pzbowen@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2016 5:34 PM
>> To: Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com>
>> Cc: trans@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Trans] Issue with redaction and CN-IDs
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>          I also wonder how to handle multiple CN-IDs in a single certificate.
>>          There is not, to my knowledge, a requirement that the Subject only contain
>> one attribute of type commonName.
>>
>> Dan Kaminsky's PKI Layer Cake paper
>> (https://www.cosic.esat.kuleuven.be/publications/article-1432.pdf) exposed
>> vulnerabilities around multiple CN-IDs, but we neglected to outlaw them in the
>> CABF BRs.
>
> Ah, then ignore that question in the trans context.  We can fix in the
> CABF context.

-- 
Rob Stradling
Senior Research & Development Scientist
COMODO - Creating Trust Online


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From: Rob Stradling <rob.stradling@comodo.com>
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Subject: Re: [Trans] Issue with redaction and CN-IDs
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On 08/04/16 01:33, Peter Bowen wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Rick Andrews <Rick_Andrews@symantec.com> wrote:
>> Section 4.2 in 6962-bis says:
>> When a precertificate contains that extension and contains a CN-ID
>>     [RFC6125], the CN-ID MUST match the first DNS-ID and have the same
>>     labels redacted.  TLS clients will use the first entry in the
>>     SEQUENCE OF INTEGERs to reconstruct both the first DNS-ID and the CN-
>>     ID.
>>
>> I'm aware of a problem (confirmed by Peter Bowen at Amazon) with Java7 and
>> Java8 where getting a new certificate with a different SAN ordering from the
>> previous one will prevent those Java clients from successfully validating
>> the new certificate, at least until the cache in the client expires the old
>> cert information. In most cases, we put the CN-ID in the first SAN field,
>> but there are exceptions made in cases like this.
>>
>> I think the spec used to say that the first item in the SEQUENCE represented
>> the CN-ID, and I missed the discussion where that changed.

That idea may have been discussed, but FWIW I don't see it in any 
previous version of the draft.

We did change CN-ID redaction from disallowed to allowed:
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/trans/trac/ticket/17
https://github.com/google/certificate-transparency-rfcs/commit/49de5eb87e1e6d29e50c418c00654a79a950522d

> More than just working around bugs in Java, there are names that can
> be placed in a dNSName entry that cannot be commonName value due to
> length.  According to RFC5280, commonName has an upper bound of 64
> total characters while dNSNames have a bound of 63 characters per
> label and a total length limit in excess of 200 characters.  Therefore
> a CA may not be able to place the first DNS-ID in the CN-ID field.

I notice that "the CN-ID MUST match the first DNS-ID and have the same 
labels redacted" is also problematic for IDNs, where some CAs put the 
A-label in the SAN dNSName field and the corresponding U-label in the 
Subject CN field.

e.g.
https://crt.sh/?id=16244739&opt=cablint

I think we should update the draft to say that the first INTEGER in the 
SEQUENCE corresponds to the (zero or more) Subject CN(s), the second 
INTEGER corresponds to the first SAN dNSName, etc, etc.

> I also wonder how to handle multiple CN-IDs in a single certificate.
> There is not, to my knowledge, a requirement that the Subject only
> contain one attribute of type commonName.
>
> Thanks,
> Peter

-- 
Rob Stradling
Senior Research & Development Scientist
COMODO - Creating Trust Online


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Subject: Re: [Trans] Issue with redaction and CN-IDs
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Peter,

It's good that this potential problem has been identified, but it
ought to be addressed in 6962-bis, not via an action in the CABF context.
I say this for a few reasons:

     - CABF cert policies do not apply to all cert that one might encounter
       in a browser
     - Eran has argued that CT applies to all TLS-based communications, not
       just browser/web server interactions (I still disagree about this)
     - 6962-bis wants to become an IETF standard and thus relying on an 
external
       spec to address a potential security concern is not appropriate.

If Rob can adjust text in 6962-bis to address this problem, that's the 
preferred approach.

Steve

> Ah, then ignore that question in the trans context.  We can fix in the
> CABF context.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trans mailing list
> Trans@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
>


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>      - 6962-bis wants to become an IETF standard and thus relying on an
> external
>        spec to address a potential security concern is not appropriate.
>=20
> If Rob can adjust text in 6962-bis to address this problem, that's the
> preferred approach.

Plus-one!



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Subject: Re: [Trans] Issue with redaction and CN-IDs
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On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:25 AM, Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com> wrote:
> It's good that this potential problem has been identified, but it
> ought to be addressed in 6962-bis, not via an action in the CABF context.
> I say this for a few reasons:
>
>     - CABF cert policies do not apply to all cert that one might encounter
>       in a browser
>     - 6962-bis wants to become an IETF standard and thus relying on an
> external
>       spec to address a potential security concern is not appropriate.
>
> If Rob can adjust text in 6962-bis to address this problem, that's the
> preferred approach.

Stephen,

This is obviously the correct answer.

The real challenge will be determining how to map redaction info to
the DN, given that DN is a SEQUENCE OF(SET OF(Attribute)) and that SET
is unordered.  I'm thinking the right answer is to borrow ASN.1
Distinguished Encoding Rules to set the order of SET when a SET has
more than one commonName attribute, as I think the most common state.

Thanks,
Peter


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Subject: Re: [Trans] Issue with redaction and CN-IDs
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On 08/04/16 15:15, Peter Bowen wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:25 AM, Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com> wrote:
>> It's good that this potential problem has been identified, but it
>> ought to be addressed in 6962-bis, not via an action in the CABF context.
>> I say this for a few reasons:
>>
>>      - CABF cert policies do not apply to all cert that one might encounter
>>        in a browser
>>      - 6962-bis wants to become an IETF standard and thus relying on an
>> external
>>        spec to address a potential security concern is not appropriate.
>>
>> If Rob can adjust text in 6962-bis to address this problem, that's the
>> preferred approach.
>
> Stephen,
>
> This is obviously the correct answer.
>
> The real challenge will be determining how to map redaction info to
> the DN, given that DN is a SEQUENCE OF(SET OF(Attribute)) and that SET
> is unordered.

We originally said that CNs could not be redacted at all because we were 
trying to avoid this complexity.

> I'm thinking the right answer is to borrow ASN.1
> Distinguished Encoding Rules to set the order of SET when a SET has
> more than one commonName attribute, as I think the most common state.

Does anyone actually need the ability to redact different numbers of 
labels in multiple CNs?

I'm guessing not, in which case let's not make this more complex than it 
needs to be.

> Thanks,
> Peter

-- 
Rob Stradling
Senior Research & Development Scientist
COMODO - Creating Trust Online


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Subject: Re: [Trans] Issue with redaction and CN-IDs
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On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 2:40 PM, Rob Stradling <rob.stradling@comodo.com> wrote:
> On 08/04/16 15:15, Peter Bowen wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:25 AM, Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> It's good that this potential problem has been identified, but it
>>> ought to be addressed in 6962-bis, not via an action in the CABF context.
>>> I say this for a few reasons:
>>>
>>>      - CABF cert policies do not apply to all cert that one might
>>> encounter
>>>        in a browser
>>>      - 6962-bis wants to become an IETF standard and thus relying on an
>>> external
>>>        spec to address a potential security concern is not appropriate.
>>>
>>> If Rob can adjust text in 6962-bis to address this problem, that's the
>>> preferred approach.
>>
>>
>> Stephen,
>>
>> This is obviously the correct answer.
>>
>> The real challenge will be determining how to map redaction info to
>> the DN, given that DN is a SEQUENCE OF(SET OF(Attribute)) and that SET
>> is unordered.
>
>
> We originally said that CNs could not be redacted at all because we were
> trying to avoid this complexity.
>
>> I'm thinking the right answer is to borrow ASN.1
>> Distinguished Encoding Rules to set the order of SET when a SET has
>> more than one commonName attribute, as I think the most common state.
>
>
> Does anyone actually need the ability to redact different numbers of labels
> in multiple CNs?
>
> I'm guessing not, in which case let's not make this more complex than it
> needs to be.

So I think the easiest method would be to append one more element to
the sequence for CN redaction level.  I think it should go at the end,
rather than the beginning, as it should be more likely to not have a
common name than not having a SAN.


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#17: Add advice on CNs

Changes (by rob.stradling@comodo.com):

 * status:  closed => reopened
 * resolution:  fixed =>


Comment:

 It's problematic to require the Subject CN, if present, to match the first
 SAN dNSName.  See this thread for discussion:
 https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/trans/q3mT1tSeKJkh2TDftElF8WBlLp8

 Let's adopt Peter Bowen's suggestion to "...append one more element to
 the sequence for CN redaction level.  I think it should go at the end,
 rather than the beginning, as it should be more likely to not have a
 common name than not having a SAN."

-- 
-----------------------------+---------------------------------------
 Reporter:  benl@google.com  |       Owner:  rob.stradling@comodo.com
     Type:  defect           |      Status:  reopened
 Priority:  major            |   Milestone:
Component:  rfc6962-bis      |     Version:
 Severity:  -                |  Resolution:
 Keywords:                   |
-----------------------------+---------------------------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/trans/trac/ticket/17#comment:9>
trans <https://tools.ietf.org/trans/>


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#17: Add advice on CNs

Changes (by rob.stradling@comodo.com):

 * milestone:   => review


Comment:

 Fixed by https://github.com/google/certificate-transparency-
 rfcs/commit/11b145a7c9865dd8e6f04c6edb19e6fdc4b1a174

-- 
-----------------------------+---------------------------------------
 Reporter:  benl@google.com  |       Owner:  rob.stradling@comodo.com
     Type:  defect           |      Status:  reopened
 Priority:  major            |   Milestone:  review
Component:  rfc6962-bis      |     Version:
 Severity:  -                |  Resolution:
 Keywords:                   |
-----------------------------+---------------------------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/trans/trac/ticket/17#comment:10>
trans <https://tools.ietf.org/trans/>


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Public Notary Transparency  of the IETF.

        Title           : Certificate Transparency
        Authors         : Ben Laurie
                          Adam Langley
                          Emilia Kasper
                          Eran Messeri
                          Rob Stradling
	Filename        : draft-ietf-trans-rfc6962-bis-14.txt
	Pages           : 52
	Date            : 2016-04-11

Abstract:
   This document describes a protocol for publicly logging the existence
   of Transport Layer Security (TLS) certificates as they are issued or
   observed, in a manner that allows anyone to audit certification
   authority (CA) activity and notice the issuance of suspect
   certificates as well as to audit the certificate logs themselves.
   The intent is that eventually clients would refuse to honor
   certificates that do not appear in a log, effectively forcing CAs to
   add all issued certificates to the logs.

   Logs are network services that implement the protocol operations for
   submissions and queries that are defined in this document.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-trans-rfc6962-bis/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-trans-rfc6962-bis-14

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-trans-rfc6962-bis-14


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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#17: Add advice on CNs

Changes (by melinda.shore@gmail.com):

 * status:  reopened => closed
 * resolution:   => fixed


-- 
-----------------------------+---------------------------------------
 Reporter:  benl@google.com  |       Owner:  rob.stradling@comodo.com
     Type:  defect           |      Status:  closed
 Priority:  major            |   Milestone:  review
Component:  rfc6962-bis      |     Version:
 Severity:  -                |  Resolution:  fixed
 Keywords:                   |
-----------------------------+---------------------------------------

Ticket URL: <https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/trans/trac/ticket/17#comment:11>
trans <https://tools.ietf.org/trans/>


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From: Eran Messeri <eranm@google.com>
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Subject: [Trans] Proposal: Allow redaction of exactly one DNS-ID
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--94eb2c084190cb321e05303b3c5f
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I'm looking for feedback on limiting the name redaction mechanism specified
in section 4.2 of RFC6962-bis
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-trans-rfc6962-bis-14#section-4.2>.

My proposal is to allow redaction exactly only of the first DNS-ID in the
subjectAltName extension.
Right now 6962-bis allows redaction of multiple DNS-IDs by requiring an
extension with repeating integer values, each indicating the number of
redacted labels in the corresponding DNS-ID entry.

I am proposing this to simplify implementing clients - not having loop over
one extension, match it with fields in another extension and dealing with
the edge cases where there's a mismatch is one less source of bugs.

However it may enforce certain limitations on CAs / domain owners that are
fundamental to this feature (each redacted domain name will need to be in a
separate certificate, for a start, or not being able to redact a CN-ID).
Hence feedback is appreciated.

Eran

--94eb2c084190cb321e05303b3c5f
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;m looking for feedback on limiting the name redactio=
n mechanism specified in <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-=
trans-rfc6962-bis-14#section-4.2">section 4.2 of RFC6962-bis</a>.<div><br><=
/div><div>My proposal is to allow redaction exactly only of the first DNS-I=
D in the subjectAltName extension.</div><div>Right now 6962-bis allows reda=
ction of multiple DNS-IDs by requiring an extension with repeating integer =
values, each indicating the number of redacted labels in the corresponding =
DNS-ID entry.</div><div><br></div><div>I am proposing this to simplify impl=
ementing clients - not having loop over one extension, match it with fields=
 in another extension and dealing with the edge cases where there&#39;s a m=
ismatch is one less source of bugs.</div><div><br></div><div>However it may=
 enforce certain limitations on CAs / domain owners that are fundamental to=
 this feature (each redacted domain name will need to be in a separate cert=
ificate, for a start, or not being able to redact a CN-ID). Hence feedback =
is appreciated.</div><div><br></div><div>Eran</div></div>

--94eb2c084190cb321e05303b3c5f--


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Subject: Re: [Trans] Proposal: Allow redaction of exactly one DNS-ID
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 21:17:44 +0100
Eran Messeri <eranm@google.com> wrote:

> I'm looking for feedback on limiting the name redaction mechanism
> specified in section 4.2 of RFC6962-bis
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-trans-rfc6962-bis-14#section-4.2>.
> 
> My proposal is to allow redaction exactly only of the first DNS-ID in
> the subjectAltName extension.
> Right now 6962-bis allows redaction of multiple DNS-IDs by requiring
> an extension with repeating integer values, each indicating the
> number of redacted labels in the corresponding DNS-ID entry.
> 
> I am proposing this to simplify implementing clients - not having
> loop over one extension, match it with fields in another extension
> and dealing with the edge cases where there's a mismatch is one less
> source of bugs.
> 
> However it may enforce certain limitations on CAs / domain owners
> that are fundamental to this feature (each redacted domain name will
> need to be in a separate certificate, for a start, or not being able
> to redact a CN-ID). Hence feedback is appreciated.

 From an implementer's perspective, I like the idea of changing the
redaction extension to contain a single integer.  Why not have it apply
to all DNS-IDs in the certificate (including CN-ID) instead of just the
first? I think this would make client implementations slightly simpler
(since clients could apply the redaction uniformly to all DNS-IDs), and
satisfy more use cases (since all names could be redacted).  However,
this would not work if a domain owner wanted to redact both
secret.example.com and subservice.secret.example.com to ?.example.com
and ?.?.example.com.

Another possibility is for the extension to instead specify the number
of *un*redacted labels at the end of the DNS-ID, which I suspect would
satisfy almost all use cases.  If a domain owner wants to redact,
they probably want to redact all hostnames under a particular domain,
and counting the number of unredacted labels would make this possible.
The downside is that it's messy to think in terms of unredacted labels,
and a naive implementation might perform the calculation number_of_labels
- number_of_unredacted_labels, which could cause trouble if the cert is
malformed and number_of_unredacted_labels > number_of_labels.

Regards,
Andrew


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Subject: Re: [Trans] Proposal: Allow redaction of exactly one DNS-ID
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On Wed, 13 Apr 2016, Andrew Ayer wrote:

> Another possibility is for the extension to instead specify the number
> of *un*redacted labels at the end of the DNS-ID, which I suspect would
> satisfy almost all use cases.  If a domain owner wants to redact,
> they probably want to redact all hostnames under a particular domain,

(no hats on)

I don't think that is true. A big use case I think is to have
certificates within and outside the split DNS view for the corporate
versus public DNS. Eg *.nohats.ca and intranet.nohats.ca. Although
I agree that an organisation should probably get two certificates in
such a case.

Is the implementation of the current text really that much harder? I
think it would be better if the specification would not be limited,
unless it is a significant continious cost (eg extra load on servers).

The one-time programming cost seems less important[*]

Paul
[*] I am an implementor of RFCs too :)


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From: Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com>
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Subject: [Trans] revised threat analysis doc
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We've just posted a revised version of this doc.  Here is a quick 
summary of the changes.

1. Revised the introduction to discuss the AIA extension and its status 
relative to 5280
and to CABF cert policies.

2. Added a paragraph to 3.2.1.1.1 to note an attack in which a malicious 
CA revokes
a bogus cert but sends a "god" OCSP response to a targeted user 
(browser). Also added
a few words to the paragraph in 3.2.1.1.2 noting the same sort of attack.

3. Revised section 3.3 to note that 5280 warns about the dangers of 
having duplicate names,
in the Security Considerations section. Divided the text into 
subsections to address different
forms of the colluding CA attack, in an effort to make this section 
easier to read.

4. Revised the 3.3 text to better distinguish among attacks based on 
revocation of the
doppelganger EE cert vs. revocation of the cert of the CA that issued 
and logged this
bogus cert. The discussion notes why these revocation actions might or 
might not be
effective, depending on implementation details that are not specified in 
5280 or other RFCs.

5. Added text to note that, in this context, a CA and bogus web server 
could cause
a targeted user (browser) to get a "good" OCSP response as part of the 
colluding CA attack,
if the browser asks the web server for the OCSP response. (This is 
relevant to the
discussion of whether an AIA extension is included in the bogus EE cert.)

6. Revised Section 3.4 to address comments received from Bryan 
(offlist), including
his suggestion to create subsections of 3.4 (which motivated creating 
such subsections
in 3.3).

Steve


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To: "trans@ietf.org" <trans@ietf.org>
From: Stephen Kent <kent@bbn.com>
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Subject: [Trans] slight timing whoops
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We've been having trouble getting the -05 version of the threat analysis 
posted, so
my message about the changes that have been incorporated is a bit premature.

Here is the modified text:

*Introduction, page 4:*

Certificate Revocations Lists (CRLs) [RFC5280] are the primary meansof
    certificate revocation established by IETF standards.Unfortunately, 
most
    browsers do not make use of CRLs to check therevocation status of 
certificates
    presented by a TLS Server(Subject). Some browsers make use of Online
    Certificate  StatusProtocol (OCSP) data [RFC6960] as a 
standards-based alternative
    toCRLs. If a certificate contains an Authority Information Access 
(AIA )
    extension [RFC5280], it directs a replying party to an OCSP server to
    which a request can be directed. This extension also may be used by a
    browser to request OCSP responses from a TLS server with which it is
    communicating [RFC6066, RFC6961].

    RFC 5280 does not require inclusion of an AIA extension in 
certificates,
    so a browser cannot assume that this extension will be present. The
    Certification Authority and Browser Forum (CABF) baseline 
requirements and
    extended validation guidelines do mandate inclusion of this 
extension in EE
    certificates (in conjunction with their certificate policies). (See
https://cabforum.org for the most recent versions of these policies.)

    In addition to the revocation status data dissemination mechanisms 
specified
    by IETF standards, most browser vendors employ proprietary means of

conveying certificate revocation status information to their products, 
e.g.,
    via a blacklist that enumerates revoked certificates (EE or CA).Such
    capabilities enable a browser vendor to cause browsers toreject any
    certificates on the blacklist. This approach also can be employed to
    remedy mis-issuance.Throughout the remainder of this document 
references to
    certificaterevocation as a remedy encompass this and analogous forms of
    browser behavior, if available. Note: there are no IETF standards 
that define
    browser blacklist mechanisms.


3.2.1.1.1. Self-monitoring Subject

< add a second paragraph>

    A malicious CA might revoke a bogus certificate to avoid having browser
    vendors take punitive action against the CA and/or to persuade them 
to not
    enter the bogus certificate on a vendor-maintained blacklist. 
However, the CA
    might provide a “good” OCSP response (from a server it operates) to 
a targeted
    user (browser instance) as a way to circumvent the remediation 
nominally offered
    by revocation. No component of CT is tasked with detecting this sort 
of misbehavior
    by a CA. (The misbehavior is analogous to a log offering split views 
to different
    clients. The Audit element of CT is tasked with detecting this sort 
of attack.)

3.2.1.1.2. Benign third party Monitor

If a benign third party monitor is checking the logs to which 
acertificate was
    submitted and is protecting the targeted Subject, itwill detect the 
bogus certificate
    and will alert the Subject. TheSubject will then ask the CA to 
revoke the bogus
    certificate. As in3.2.1.1.1, the CA may or may not revoke the 
certificate and it
    might revoke the  certificate but provide “good” OCSP responses to a 
targeted user
    (browser instance).


--------

3.3 Malicious, Colluding CAs


Section 3.2 examined attacks in which a single CA might issue a bogus 
certificate. There is also the potential that two or more CAs might 
collude to issue a bogus certificate in a fashion designed to foil the 
remediation (but not detection) safeguards envisioned by CT. Their goal 
would be trick a CT-aware browser into accepting a bogus certificate 
because it was accompanied by a valid SCT, while evading certificate 
revocation status indications. This section explores such scenarios.


In this attack two CAs that do not share a common path to a trust 
anchor, collude to create a “doppelganger” (bogus) EE certificate. The 
attack need not be initiated by trust anchors; any subordinate pair of 
(not name-constrained) CAs can effect this attack without the knowledge 
of superiors CAs (which are presumed to be benign). The two CAs must 
have the same Subject name and the same public key for the attack. (RFC 
5280 doe not explicitly preclude the creation of two CAs with the same 
name, so long as the parent CAs are distinct. Requirements for Subject 
name uniqueness apply individually to each CA but not across CA 
boundaries, as per Section 4.2.1.6. However, the Security Considerations 
section of RFC 5280 warns that name collisions could cause security 
problems.)


Because the two CAs have the same name and make use of the same key, 
each can issue the (bogus) doppelganger certificates. One of the CAs 
would log the certificate and acquire an SCT for it, while the other 
would not.


Because the bogus certificate is logged, it is subject to detection as 
such by a Monitor. Once the bogus certificate is detected it is 
anticipated that action will be taken to render it invalid. The bogus 
certificate itself might be revoked by the CA that issued and logged it, 
an action that masks the malicious intent of that CA. A browser vendor 
might add the bogus certificate to a blacklist maintained by the vendor, 
e.g., because the CA failed to revoke the bogus certificate.


If the CA that logged the bogus certificate is suspected of being 
malicious, e.g., because it has a history of using bogus certificates, 
the certificate of that CA might itself be revoked. This revocation 
might be effected by the parent of that CA (which is not complicit), or 
by a browser vendor using a blacklist. Whether the proposed attack can 
achieve its goal depends on which revocation mechanism is employed, and 
which certificate or certificates are revoked.


3.3.1 Revocation of the Bogus Certificate


If the bogus (EE) certificate is revoked by the CA that issued and 
logged it, browsers should treat that certificate as invalid. However, a 
browser checking a CRL or OCSP response might not match this revocation 
status data against the doppelganger issued by the second CA. This is 
because revocation status checking is performed in the context of a 
certification path (during path validation). The doppelgangers have 
different certification paths and thus the revocation status data for 
each might be acquired and managed independently. (RFC 5280 does not 
provide implementation guidance for management of revocation data. It is 
known that some relying party implementations maintain such information 
on a per-certificate path basis, but others might not.)


Even if the bogus certificates contain an AIA extension pointing to an 
OCSP server the attack might still succeed. (As noted in the Section 1, 
RFC 5280 does not mandate inclusion this extension, but its presence is 
required by CABF requirements.) As noted in Section 3.2.1.1.1, a 
malicious CA could send a “good” OCSP response to a targeted browser 
instance, even if other parties are provided with a “revoked” response. 
Also note that a TLS server can supply an OCSP response to a browser as 
part of the TLS handshake [RFC6961], if requested by the browser. A TLS 
server posing as the entity named in the bogus certificate could acquire 
a “good” OCSP response from the colluding CAs to effect the attack. Only 
if the browser relies upon a trusted, third-party OCSP responder, one 
not part of the collusion, would the attack fail.


The analysis above also applies to the use of CRLs to disseminate 
certificate revocation status data. The doppelganger certificate could 
contain a CRL distribution point extension instead of an AIA extension. 
In that case a site supplying CRLs for the colluding CAs could supply 
different CRLs to different requestors, in an attempt to hide the 
revocation status of the doppelganger from targeted browsers instances. 
This is analogous to a split-view attack effected by a CT log. However, 
as noted in Section 3.2.1.1 and 3.2.1.1.1, no element of CT is 
responsible for detecting inconsistent reporting of certificate 
revocation status data. (Monitoring in the CT context tracks log entries 
made by CAs or Subjects. Auditing is designed to detect misbehavior by 
logs, not by CAs per se.)

If the CA that logged the certificate does not revoke it, a browser 
vendor might enter the bogus certificate into a “blacklist”. 
Unfortunately, there are no IETF standards for such blacklists. Thus it 
is conceivable that the revocation status data also might be managed in 
a path-specific fashion. If that were true, then the attack could 
succeed. However, if a vendor maintains revocation status data in a 
path-independent fashion, then the attack will fail. For example, if 
revoked certificates are identified by CA name and serial number, or a 
hash of the certificate, this attack would fail.


3.2.2 Revocation of the Colluding CA Certificate


If the CA that logged the bogus certificate is viewed as acting 
maliciously, its parent might revoke that CA’s certificate. Even though 
the two colluding CAs have the same name and use the same public key, 
their certificates are distinct, e.g., they were issued by different 
parents and almost certainly have different certificate serial numbers. 
Thus revocation of the certificate of the CA that logged the bogus 
certificate does not affect the certificate of its colluding partner. In 
this case, the bogus EE certificate would be treated as valid when it 
appears in a certification path involving the second colluding CA. Thus 
revocation the certificate for the CA that was detected as malicious 
does not prevent this attack from succeeding.


A vendor also might choose to add the certificate of the CA that issued 
the bogus certificate to its blacklist, e.g., if that CA refuses to 
revoke the bogus certificate. This also may not prevent the bogus 
certificate from being accepted by a browser. For example, if the CA 
certificate blacklist entry is analogous to a CRL entry (Subject name of 
the parent of the malicious CA and the serial number of the malicious 
CA’s certificate), the colluding CA’s certificate would still be valid 
in this case.


-------

3.4 Undetected Compromise of CAs or Logs

Sections 3.1 and 3.2 examined attacks in the context of non-malicious 
and malicious CAs, and benign and misbehaving logs. Another class of 
attacks might occur in the context of a non-malicious CA and/or a benign 
log. Specifically these CT elements might be compromised and the 
compromise might go undetected. Compromise of CAs and logs was noted in 
Section 2, as was coercion of a CA. As noted there, a compromised CA is 
essentially a malicious CA, and thus the discussions in Section 3.2 are 
applicable. The case of an undetected compromise warrants some 
additional discussion, since some relying parties may see signed objects 
issued by the legitimate (non-malicious) CA, others may see signed 
objects from its compromised counterpart, and some may see objects from 
both. In the case of a compromised CA or log the adversary is presumed 
to have access to the private key used by a CA to sign certificates, or 
used by a log to sign SCTs and STHs. Because the compromise is 
undetected, there will be no effort by a CA to have its certificate 
revoked or by a log to shut down the log.

3.4.1 Compromised CA, Benign Log

In the case of a compromised (non-malicious) CA, an attacker uses the 
purloined private key to generate a bogus certificate (that the 
compromised CA would not issue). If this certificate is submitted to a 
(benign) log, then it subject to detection by a Monitor, as discussed in 
3.1.1.1. If the bogus certificate is submitted to a misbehaving log, 
then an SCT can be generated, but there will be no entry for it, as 
discussed in 3.1.1.2. If the bogus certificate is not logged, then there 
will be no SCT, and the implications are as described in 3.1.2.

This sort of attack may be most effective if the CA that is the victim 
of the attack has issueda certificate for the targeted Subject. In this 
case the bogus certificate will then have the same certification path as 
the legitimate certificate, which may help hide the bogus certificate. 
However, means of remedying the attack are independent of this aspect, 
i.e., revocation canbe effected irrespective of whether the targeted 
Subject received its certificate from the compromised CA.

A compromised (non-malicious) CA may be able to revoke the bogus 
certificate if it is detected by a Monitor, and the targeted Subject has 
been notified. It can do so only when the serial number of the bogus 
certificate is made known to this CA. Also, the bogus certificatecannot 
have been issued with an Authority Information Access (AIA) or CRL 
Distribution Point (CRL DP) extension that enables only the malicious 
twin to revoke the certificate. (The AIA extension in the bogus 
certificate could be used to direct relying parties to an OCSP server 
controlled by the malicious twin. The CRL DP extension could be used to 
direct relying parties to a CRL controlled by the malicious twin.) If 
the bogus certificate contains either extension, the compromised CA 
cannot effectively revoke it, but it will also be apparent that the 
bogus certificate was issued by the malicious twin. (The AIA or CRL DP 
extension would provide a strong indication that the bogus certificate 
was not generated by the compromised CA itself.)

If the serial number of the bogus certificate is the same as for a 
valid, not-expired certificate issued by the CA (to the target or to 
another Subject), then revocationposes a problem. This is because 
revocation of the bogus certificate will also invalidate a legitimate 
certificate. This problem may cause the compromised CA to delay 
revocation, thus allowing the bogus certificate to remain a danger for a 
longer time.

The compromised CA may not realize that the bogus certificate was issued 
by a malicious twin; one occurrence of this sort might be regarded as an 
error, and not cause the CA to transition to a new key pair. (This 
assumes that the bogus certificate does not contain an AIA or CRL DP 
extension that wrests control of revocation from the compromised CA.) If 
the compromised CA does determine that its private key has been stolen, 
it may take some time to transition to a new key pair, and reissue 
certificates to all of its legitimate Subjects. Thus an attack of this 
sort may take a while to be remedied.

Also note that the malicious twin of the compromised CA may be capable 
of issuing its own CRL or OCSP responses, without changing any AIA/CRL 
DP data present in the targeted certificate. The revocation status data 
from the evil twin will appear as valid as those of the compromised CA. 
If the attacker has the ability to control the sources of revocation 
status data available to a targeted user (browser instance), then the 
user may not become aware of the attack.

A bogus certificate issued by the malicious CA will not match the SCT 
for the legitimate certificate, since they are not identical, e.g., at a 
minimum the private keys do not match. Thus a CT-aware browser that 
rejects certificates without SCTs (see 3.1.2.2) will reject a bogus 
certificate created under these circumstances if it is not logged. If 
the bogus certificate is detected and logged, browsers that require an 
SCT will reject the bogus certificate.

3.4.2 Benign CA, Compromised Log

A benign CA does not issue bogus certificates, except as a result of an 
accident or attack. So, in normal operation, it is not clear what 
behavior by a compromised log would yield an attack. If a bogus 
certificate is issued by a benign CA (under these circumstances) is 
submitted to a compromised (non-malicious) log, then both an SCT and a 
log entry will be created. Again, it is not clear what additional 
adverse actions the compromised log would perform to further an attack 
on CT.

3.4.3 Compromised CA, Compromised Log

As noted in 3.4.1, an evil twin CA may issue a bogus certificate that 
contains the same Subject name as a legitimate certificate issued by the 
compromised CA. Alternatively, the bogus certificate may contain a 
different name but reuse a serial number from a valid, not revoked 
certificate issued by that CA.

The evil twin CA might submit a bogus certificate to the evil twin of a 
compromised log. The operator of the evil twin log can use the purloined 
private key to generate SCTs for certificates that have not been logged 
by its legitimate counterpart. These SCTs will appear valid relative to 
the public key associated with the legitimate log. However, an STH 
issued by the legitimate log will not correspond to a tree containing 
these SCTs. Thus thorough checking of the SCTs issued by the evil twin 
log will identify this discrepancy.

An Auditor checking for log consistency might conclude that the 
compromised log is acting maliciously, and is presenting a split view to 
its clients. In this fashion the compromised log may be shunned and 
forced to shut down. However, if an attacker targets a set of TLS 
clients that do not have access to the legitimate log, they may not be 
able to detect this inconsistency. In this case CT would need to rely on 
a distributed gossiping audit mechanism to detect the compromise (see 
Section 5.6).

In general, this sort of attack is analogous to a malicious CA creating 
a bogus certificate and receiving an SCT (with no log entry) from a 
misbehaving log (Section 4.2.1.2). The lack of a log entry prevents 
detection of the bogus certificate by Monitors, and the presence of the 
SCT prevents rejection by a CT-aware browser that accepts SCTs from the 
compromised log.





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<html>
  <head>

    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    We've been having trouble getting the -05 version of the threat
    analysis posted, so<br>
    my message about the changes that have been incorporated is a bit
    premature.<br>
    <br>
    Here is the modified text:<br>
    <br>
    <meta name="Title" content="">
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Courier"><b>Introduction,
page
          4:</b><o:p></o:p></span></p>
    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
        style="mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
    <p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes">   </span>Certificate
Revocations
      Lists (CRLs) [RFC5280] are the primary means<o:p></o:p><span
        style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>of <br>
         certificate
      revocation established by IETF standards.<o:p></o:p><span
        style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Unfortunately,
      most <br>
         browsers do not make use of CRLs to check the<o:p></o:p><span
        style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>revocation
      status of certificates <br>
         presented by a TLS Server<o:p></o:p><span
        style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>(Subject). Some
      browsers make use of Online <br>
         Certificate  Status<o:p></o:p><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Protocol
      (OCSP)
      data [RFC6960] as a standards-based alternative <br>
         to<o:p></o:p><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>CRLs. If a
      certificate contains an Authority Information Access (AIA ) <br>
         extension
      [RFC5280], it directs a replying party to an OCSP server to <br>
         which a request can
      be directed. This extension also may be used by a <br>
         browser to request OCSP
      responses from a TLS server with which it is <br>
         communicating [RFC6066, RFC6961]. <o:p></o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoPlainText">   RFC 5280 does not require inclusion of an
      AIA extension
      in certificates, <br>
         so a browser cannot assume that this extension will be
      present. The <br>
         Certification Authority and Browser Forum (CABF) baseline
      requirements
      and <br>
         extended validation guidelines do mandate inclusion of this
      extension in EE
      <br>
         certificates (in conjunction with their certificate policies).
      (See <br>
         <a href="https://cabforum.org">https://cabforum.org</a> for
      the most recent
      versions of these policies.)<o:p></o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoPlainText">   In addition to the revocation status data
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      mechanisms specified <br>
         by IETF standards, most browser vendors employ proprietary
      means of<o:p></o:p></p>
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      certificate
      revocation status information to their products, e.g., <br>
         via a blacklist that
      enumerates revoked certificates (EE or CA).<o:p></o:p><span
        style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>Such
      <br>
         capabilities enable a browser vendor to cause browsers to<o:p></o:p><span
        style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>reject any
      <br>
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      employed to <br>
         remedy mis-issuance.<o:p></o:p><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> 
      </span>Throughout the
      remainder of this document references to <br>
         certificate<o:p></o:p><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>revocation
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      remedy encompass this and analogous forms of <br>
         browser <o:p></o:p><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"></span><font
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    <p class="MsoPlainText">3.2.1.1.1. Self-monitoring Subject<o:p></o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoPlainText">&lt; add a second paragraph&gt;<o:p></o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoPlainText">   A malicious CA might revoke a
      bogus certificate to avoid having browser <br>
         vendors take punitive action against
      the CA and/or to persuade them to not <br>
         enter the bogus certificate on a
      vendor-maintained blacklist. However, the CA <br>
         might provide a “good” OCSP
      response (from a server it operates) to a targeted <br>
         user (browser instance) as a way to
      circumvent the remediation nominally offered <br>
         by revocation. No component of CT
      is tasked with detecting this sort of misbehavior <br>
         by a CA. (The misbehavior is
      analogous to a log offering split views to different <br>
         clients. The Audit element
      of CT is tasked with detecting this sort of attack.)<o:p></o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
    <p class="MsoPlainText">3.2.1.1.2. Benign third party Monitor<o:p></o:p></p>
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      the
      CA may or may not revoke the certificate and it <br>
         might revoke the  certificate
      but provide “good” OCSP responses to a targeted user <br>
         (browser instance).<o:p></o:p></p>
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      <!--StartFragment-->
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US">3.3 Malicious, Colluding CAs<br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Section 3.2 examined attacks in
          which a single CA might
          issue a bogus certificate. There is also the potential that
          two or more CAs
          might collude to issue a bogus certificate in a fashion
          designed to foil the
          remediation (but not detection) safeguards envisioned by CT.
          Their goal would
          be trick a CT-aware browser into accepting a bogus certificate
          because it was
          accompanied by a valid SCT, while evading certificate
          revocation status
          indications. This section explores such scenarios.<br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In this attack two CAs that do not
          share a common
          path to a trust anchor, collude to create a “doppelganger”
          (bogus) EE
          certificate. The attack need not be initiated by trust
          anchors; any subordinate
          pair of (not name-constrained) CAs can effect this attack
          without the knowledge
          of superiors CAs (which are presumed to be benign). The two
          CAs must have the
          same Subject name and the same public key for the attack. (RFC
          5280 doe not
          explicitly preclude the creation of two CAs with the same
          name, so long as the
          parent CAs are distinct. Requirements for Subject name
          uniqueness apply
          individually to each CA but not across CA boundaries, as per
          Section 4.2.1.6.
          However, the Security Considerations section of RFC 5280 warns
          that name
          collisions could cause security problems.) <br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Because the two CAs have the same
          name and make use
          of the same key, each can issue the (bogus) doppelganger
          certificates. One of
          the CAs would log the certificate and acquire an SCT for it,
          while the other
          would not. <br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Because the bogus certificate is
          logged, it is
          subject to detection as such by a Monitor. Once the bogus
          certificate is
          detected it is anticipated that action will be taken to render
          it invalid. The
          bogus certificate itself might be revoked by the CA that
          issued and logged it,
          an action that masks the malicious intent of that CA. A
          browser vendor might
          add the bogus certificate to a blacklist maintained by the
          vendor, e.g.,
          because the CA failed to revoke the bogus certificate. <br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If the CA that logged the bogus
          certificate is
          suspected of being malicious, e.g., because it has a history
          of using bogus
          certificates, the certificate of that CA might itself be
          revoked. This revocation
          might be effected by the parent of that CA (which is not
          complicit), or by a
          browser vendor using a blacklist. Whether the proposed attack
          can achieve its
          goal depends on which revocation mechanism is employed, and
          which certificate
          or certificates are revoked.<br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US">3.3.1 Revocation of the Bogus
          Certificate<br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If the bogus (EE) certificate is
          revoked by the CA
          that issued and logged it, browsers should treat that
          certificate as invalid.
          However, a browser checking a CRL or OCSP response might not
          match this
          revocation status data against the doppelganger issued by the
          second CA. This
          is because revocation status checking is performed in the
          context of a
          certification path (during path validation). The doppelgangers
          have different
          certification paths and thus the revocation status data for
          each might be
          acquired and managed independently. (RFC 5280 does not provide
          implementation
          guidance for management of revocation data. It is known that
          some relying party
          implementations maintain such information on a per-certificate
          path basis, but
          others might not.)<br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Even if the bogus certificates
          contain an AIA
          extension pointing to an OCSP server the attack might still
          succeed. (As noted
          in the Section 1, RFC 5280 does not mandate inclusion this
          extension, but its
          presence is required by CABF requirements.) <span
            style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>As noted in Section
          3.2.1.1.1, a malicious CA
          could send a “good” OCSP response to a targeted browser
          instance, even if other
          parties are provided with a “revoked” response. Also note that
          a TLS server can
          supply an OCSP response to a browser as part of the TLS
          handshake [RFC6961], if
          requested by the browser. A TLS server posing as the entity
          named in the bogus
          certificate could acquire a “good” OCSP response from the
          colluding CAs to
          effect the attack. Only if the browser relies upon a trusted,
          third-party OCSP
          responder, one not part of the collusion, would the attack
          fail.<br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The analysis above also applies to
          the use of CRLs
          to disseminate certificate revocation status data. The
          doppelganger certificate
          could contain a CRL distribution point extension instead of an
          AIA extension.
          In that case a site supplying CRLs for the colluding CAs could
          supply different
          CRLs to different requestors, in an attempt to hide the
          revocation status of
          the doppelganger from targeted browsers instances. This is
          analogous to a
          split-view attack effected by a CT log. However, as noted in
          Section 3.2.1.1
          and 3.2.1.1.1, no element of CT is responsible for detecting
          inconsistent
          reporting of certificate revocation status data. (Monitoring
          in the CT context
          tracks log entries made by CAs or Subjects. Auditing is
          designed to detect
          misbehavior by logs, not by CAs per se.) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If the CA that logged the
          certificate does not
          revoke it, a browser vendor might enter the bogus certificate
          into a
          “blacklist”. Unfortunately, there are no IETF standards for
          such blacklists. Thus
          it is conceivable that the revocation status data also might
          be managed in a
          path-specific fashion. If that were true, then the attack
          could succeed.
          However, if a vendor maintains revocation status data in a
          path-independent
          fashion, then the attack will fail. For example, if revoked
          certificates are
          identified by CA name and serial number, or a hash of the
          certificate, this attack
          would fail.<br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US">3.2.2 Revocation of the Colluding
          CA Certificate <br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
          New Roman&quot;;
          mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If the CA that logged the bogus
          certificate is
          viewed as acting maliciously, its parent might revoke that
          CA’s certificate.
          Even though the two colluding CAs have the same name and use
          the same public
          key, their certificates are distinct, e.g., they were issued
          by different
          parents and almost certainly have different certificate serial
          numbers. Thus
          revocation of the certificate of the CA that logged the bogus
          certificate does
          not affect the certificate of its colluding partner. In this
          case, the bogus EE
          certificate would be treated as valid when it appears in a
          certification path
          involving the second colluding CA. Thus revocation the
          certificate for the CA
          that was detected as malicious does not prevent this attack
          from succeeding. <br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
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          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
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          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times
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          mso-fareast-language:EN-US">A vendor also might choose to add
          the certificate
          of the CA that issued the bogus certificate to its blacklist,
          e.g., if that CA
          refuses to revoke the bogus certificate. This also may not
          prevent the bogus
          certificate from being accepted by a browser. For example, if
          the CA
          certificate blacklist entry is analogous to a CRL entry
          (Subject name of the parent
          of the malicious CA and the serial number of the malicious
          CA’s certificate),
          the colluding CA’s certificate would still be valid in this
          case. <br>
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      <!--StartFragment-->
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">-------<br>
          <br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">3.4 Undetected
          Compromise of CAs or Logs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">Sections
          3.1 and 3.2 examined attacks in the context of non-malicious
          and malicious CAs,
          and benign and misbehaving logs. Another class of attacks
          might occur in the
          context of a non-malicious CA and/or a benign log.
          Specifically these CT
          elements might be compromised and the compromise might go
          undetected. Compromise
          of CAs and logs was noted in Section 2, as was coercion of a
          CA. As noted
          there, a compromised CA is essentially a malicious CA, and
          thus the discussions
          in Section 3.2 are applicable. The case of an undetected
          compromise warrants
          some additional discussion, since some relying parties may see
          signed objects issued
          by the legitimate (non-malicious) CA, others may see signed
          objects from its
          compromised counterpart, and some may see objects from both.
          In the case of a
          compromised CA or log the adversary is presumed to have access
          to the private
          key used by a CA to sign certificates, or used by a log to
          sign SCTs and STHs.
          Because the compromise is undetected, there will be no effort
          by a CA to have
          its certificate revoked or by a log to shut down the log.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">3.4.1
          Compromised CA, Benign Log<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">In the
          case of a compromised (non-malicious) CA, an attacker uses the
          purloined
          private key to generate a bogus certificate (that the
          compromised CA would not
          issue). If this certificate is submitted to a (benign) log,
          then it subject to
          detection by a Monitor, as discussed in 3.1.1.1. If the bogus
          certificate is
          submitted to a misbehaving log, then an SCT can be generated,
          but there will be
          no entry for it, as discussed in 3.1.1.2. If the bogus
          certificate is not logged,
          then there will be no SCT, and the implications are as
          described in 3.1.2.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">This sort
          of attack may be most effective if the CA that is the victim
          of the attack has
          issued<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>a certificate
          for the targeted
          Subject. In this case the bogus certificate will then have the
          same
          certification path as the legitimate certificate, which may
          help hide the bogus
          certificate. However, means of remedying the attack are
          independent of this
          aspect, i.e., revocation can<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>be
          effected
          irrespective of whether the targeted Subject received its
          certificate from the
          compromised CA. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">A compromised
          (non-malicious) CA may be able to revoke the bogus certificate
          if it is detected
          by a Monitor, and the targeted Subject has been notified. It
          can do so only
          when the serial number of the bogus certificate is made known
          to this CA. Also,
          the bogus certificate<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>cannot
          have been issued
          with an Authority Information Access (AIA) or CRL Distribution
          Point (CRL DP) extension
          that enables only the malicious twin to revoke the
          certificate. (The AIA
          extension in the bogus certificate could be used to direct
          relying parties to an
          OCSP server controlled by the malicious twin. The CRL DP
          extension could be
          used to direct relying parties to a CRL controlled by the
          malicious twin.) <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>If
          the bogus certificate contains either
          extension, the compromised CA cannot effectively revoke it,
          but it will also be
          apparent that the bogus certificate was issued by the
          malicious twin. (The AIA or
          CRL DP extension would provide a strong indication that the
          bogus certificate
          was not generated by the compromised CA itself.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">If the
          serial number of the bogus certificate is the same as for a
          valid, not-expired
          certificate issued by the CA (to the target or to another
          Subject), then
          revocation<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>poses a
          problem. This is
          because revocation of the bogus certificate will also
          invalidate a legitimate
          certificate. This problem may cause the compromised CA to
          delay revocation,
          thus allowing the bogus certificate to remain a danger for a
          longer time. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">The
          compromised CA may not realize that the bogus certificate was
          issued by a
          malicious twin; one occurrence of this sort might be regarded
          as an error, and
          not cause the CA to transition to a new key pair. (This
          assumes that the bogus
          certificate does not contain an AIA or CRL DP extension that
          wrests control of
          revocation from the compromised CA.) <span
            style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>If
          the compromised CA does determine that its private key has
          been stolen, it may
          take some time to transition to a new key pair, and reissue
          certificates to all
          of its legitimate Subjects. Thus an attack of this sort may
          take a while to be
          remedied.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">Also note
          that the malicious twin of the compromised CA may be capable
          of issuing its own
          CRL or OCSP responses, without changing any AIA/CRL DP data
          present in the
          targeted certificate. The revocation status data from the evil
          twin will appear
          as valid as those of the compromised CA. If the attacker has
          the ability to
          control the sources of revocation status data available to a
          targeted user
          (browser instance), then the user may not become aware of the
          attack.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">A bogus
          certificate issued by the malicious CA will not match the SCT
          for the
          legitimate certificate, since they are not identical, e.g., at
          a minimum the
          private keys do not match. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Thus
          a
          CT-aware browser that rejects certificates without SCTs (see
          3.1.2.2) will
          reject a bogus certificate created under these circumstances
          if it is not
          logged. If the bogus certificate is detected and logged,
          browsers that require
          an SCT will reject the bogus certificate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">3.4.2
          Benign CA, Compromised Log<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">A benign
          CA does not issue bogus certificates, except as a result of an
          accident or attack.
          So, in normal operation, it is not clear what behavior by a
          compromised log
          would yield an attack. If a bogus certificate is issued by a
          benign CA (under
          these circumstances) is submitted to a compromised
          (non-malicious) log, then both
          an SCT and a log entry will be created. Again, it is not clear
          what additional
          adverse actions the compromised log would perform to further
          an attack on CT.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">3.4.3
          Compromised CA, Compromised Log<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">As noted
          in 3.4.1, an evil twin CA may issue a bogus certificate that
          contains the same
          Subject name as a legitimate certificate issued by the
          compromised CA.
          Alternatively, the bogus certificate may contain a different
          name but reuse a
          serial number from a valid, not revoked certificate issued by
          that CA. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">The evil
          twin CA might submit a bogus certificate to the evil twin of a
          compromised log.
          The operator of the evil twin log can use the purloined
          private key to generate
          SCTs for certificates that have not been logged by its
          legitimate counterpart.
          These SCTs will appear valid relative to the public key
          associated with the
          legitimate log. However, an STH issued by the legitimate log
          will not
          correspond to a tree containing these SCTs. Thus thorough
          checking of the SCTs
          issued by the evil twin log will identify this discrepancy. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">An
          Auditor checking for log consistency might conclude that the
          compromised log is
          acting maliciously, and is presenting a split view to its
          clients. In this
          fashion the compromised log may be shunned and forced to shut
          down. However, if
          an attacker targets a set of TLS clients that do not have
          access to the
          legitimate log, they may not be able to detect this
          inconsistency. In this case
          CT would need to rely on a distributed gossiping audit
          mechanism to detect the
          compromise (see Section 5.6).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier">In
          general, this sort of attack is analogous to a malicious CA
          creating a bogus
          certificate and receiving an SCT (with no log entry) from a
          misbehaving log
          (Section 4.2.1.2). The lack of a log entry prevents detection
          of the bogus
          certificate by Monitors, and the presence of the SCT prevents
          rejection by a
          CT-aware browser that accepts SCTs from the compromised log.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
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      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
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      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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--------------030807060802070902070007--


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Subject: [Trans] I-D Action: draft-ietf-trans-threat-analysis-05.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Public Notary Transparency  of the IETF.

        Title           : Attack Model and Threat for Certificate Transparency
        Author          : Stephen Kent
	Filename        : draft-ietf-trans-threat-analysis-05.txt
	Pages           : 31
	Date            : 2016-04-07

Abstract:
   This document describes an attack model and discusses threats for
   the Web PKI context in which security mechanisms to detect mis-
   issuance of web site certificates are being developed. The model
   provides an analysis of detection and remediation mechanisms for
   both syntactic and semantic mis-issuance. The model introduces an
   outline of attacks to organize the discussion. The model also
   describes the roles played by the elements of the Certificate
   Transparency (CT) system, to establish a context for the model.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-trans-threat-analysis/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-trans-threat-analysis-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-trans-threat-analysis-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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--047d7bd76d7a0486a80530d604ae
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

(looking at the TXT version)

Page 3

First para ends with a spurious ")".

There are two classes of beneficiaries of CT: certificate Subjects
  and relying parties (RPs). In the initial focus context of CT, the
  Web PKI, Subjects are web sites and RPs are browsers employing HTTPS
  to access these web sites.

CAs are also beneficiaries - they get to find out about key loss or abuse
of their platform, for example.

      it directs a replying party to an OCSP
  server

Should be "relying".

Page 4

Finally, if an RP were to check logs for
  individual certificates, that would disclose to logs the identity of
  web sites being visited by the RP, a privacy violation. Thus this
  attack model assumes that RPs will not check log entries.

It is not clear that:

a) All RPs care about privacy in this respect,

b) That checking logs is necessarily privacy violating (for example, we've
announced an experimental DNS-based protocol for log checking, which we are
implementing in Chrome),

therefore it seems unwarranted to assume that RPs will not check log
entries.

Page 5

There is no
  agreed-upon Audit function design for CT at the time of this
  writing. As a result, the model merely notes where Auditing is
  needed to detect certain classes of attacks.

Section 9.4 of 6962-bis-14 has a comprehensive design for auditing.

Page 6

[ 4] SCT (embedded in pre-cert, if applicable)

SCTs are not embedded in pre-certs.

Page 8

Spoofing
  enables an adversary to acquire information that a TLS-enabled
  client would not communicate if the client were aware of the
  spoofing.

There are surely many other issues with spoofing - e.g. serving malware.

An adversary
  may achieve this in various ways, e.g., by causing a user to click
  on a link to the website, or by manipulation of the DNS response
  sent to a TLS client.

If a link alone works, then the site is not spoofed with a mis-issued
certificate, surely?

Also, MitM is probably the most common attack vector.

The elements of CT may themselves be targets of attacks, as
  described below. A criminal organization might compromise a CA and
  cause it to issue bogus certificates, or it may exert influence over
  a CA (or CA staff) to do so, e.g., through extortion or physical
  threat. (Even though the CA is not intentionally malicious in this
  case, the action is equivalent to a malicious CA, hence the use of
  the term "bogus" here.) A nation state may operate or influence a CA
  that is part of the large set of "root CAs" in browsers. A CA,
  acting in this fashion, is termed a "malicious" CA. A nation state
  also might compromise a CA in another country, to effect issuance of
  bogus certificates. In this case the (non-malicious) CA, upon
  detecting the compromise (perhaps because of CT) is expected to work
  with Subjects to remedy the mis-issuance.

There's also social engineering, which is mentioned elsewhere, but I
suspect should be here, too.

It seems unlikely that a
  compromised, non-malicious, log would...

This seems odd - a compromised non-malicious log is effectively
uncompromised, isn't it?

Page 9.

CT is not designed to
  detect and counter this type of locally-authorized interception.

Actually CT is designed to detect it but it seems likely that browsers will
explicitly ignore it.

Page 10.

(and elsewhere) is there really any difference between a benign third-part
monitor and self-monitoring? Couldn't the doc be simplified by treating
them as the same?

(A misbehaving log also could create and report entries
  for bogus certificates that have not been issued by the indicated CA
  (hereafter called "fake")

This is slightly confusing, as on the face of it, the log could not create
such a cert, since it doesn't have the CA key. Later wording makes it clear
that the idea is that the cert would not, in fact, be signed by a trusted
CA.

3.1.1.2.1/3.1.1.2.2

Since I think that benign third party and self monitors are essentially the
same, it is odd that these two sections differ so much.

Page 11.

Note that independent of any mis-issuance on the part of the CA, a
  misbehaving Monitor could issue false warnings to a Subject that it
  protects. These could cause the Subject to report non-existent
  semantic problems to the issuing CA and cause the CA to do needless
  investigative work or perhaps incorrectly revoke and re-issue the
  Subject's certificate.

This para is general, rather than to do with the section it is in, and
hence should probably be somewhere else.

However, the CT architecture does not describe how
  such behavior by browsers can be deployed incrementally throughout
  the Internet. As a result, this attack model does not assume that
  browsers will reject a certificate that is not accompanied by an
  SCT.

Given that incremental deployment is already under way, this seems
unnecessarily dogmatic.

Page 13.

For example, the CA could make excuses about inadequate
  proof that the certificate is bogus, or argue that it cannot quickly
  revoke the certificate because of legal concerns, etc. In this case,
  the CT mechanisms will have detected mis-issuance, but the
  information logged by CT does not help remedy the problem. (See
  Sections 4 and 6.)

The logged information clearly _helps_, it just may not be all that is
needed.

Page 14.

3.2.2.1 is essentially the same as 3.1.1.2, just refer to the previous text?

Page 15.

Their goal would be trick a CT-aware browser into accepting a
  bogus certificate because it was accompanied by a valid SCT, while
  evading certificate revocation status indications. This section
  explores such scenarios.

The attack as described only requires colluding CAs in the case where EE
certs do not contain links to revocation information.

When EE certs do contain such links, the attack described is simply an
attack on certificate revocation, regardless of whether one or more CAs
might have issued the doppelgangers.

In either case, the attack is nothing to do with CT, which does not claim
to do anything to help with integrity or correctness of revocation
information.

Even if the bogus certificates contain an AIA extension pointing to
  an OCSP server the attack might still succeed. (As noted in the
  Section 1, RFC 5280 does not mandate inclusion this extension, but
  its presence is required by CABF requirements.)  As noted in Section
  3.2.1.1.1, a malicious CA could send a "good" OCSP response to a
  targeted browser instance, even if other parties are provided with a
  "revoked" response. Also note that a TLS server can supply an OCSP
  response to a browser as part of the TLS handshake [RFC6961], if
  requested by the browser. A TLS server posing as the entity named in
  the bogus certificate could acquire a "good" OCSP response from the
  colluding CAs to effect the attack. Only if the browser relies upon
  a trusted, third-party OCSP responder, one not part of the
  collusion, would the attack fail.

All this is independent of the attack and of CT, and applies generally to
revocation.


  The analysis above also applies to the use of CRLs to disseminate
  certificate revocation status data. The doppelganger certificate
  could contain a CRL distribution point extension instead of an AIA
  extension. In that case a site supplying CRLs for the colluding CAs
  could supply different CRLs to different requestors, in an attempt
  to hide the revocation status of the doppelganger from targeted
  browsers instances. This is analogous to a split-view attack
  effected by a CT log. However, as noted in Section 3.2.1.1 and
  3.2.1.1.1, no element of CT is responsible for detecting
  inconsistent reporting of certificate revocation status data.
  (Monitoring in the CT context tracks log entries made by CAs or
  Subjects. Auditing is designed to detect misbehavior by logs, not by
  CAs per se.)

Likewise.

Page 20.

This will happen
  only if the log performs syntactic checks in general, and if the log
  is capable of performing the checks applicable to the submitted
  (pre-)certificate.

Anyone can detect syntactic mis-issuance, the log does not need to do it.

For example: https://crt.sh/?cablint=1+week
<https://www.google.com/url?q=https://crt.sh/?cablint%3D1%2Bweek&sa=D&ust=1461067017647000&usg=AFQjCNHX_OatZkczH7TIIEeyYuTshcFzIg>
.

Page 21.

If the (pre-)certificate is submitted by the non-malicious issuing
  CA, and if the CA has a record of the certificate content

Clearly there is a record in the log!

This analysis suggests that syntactic mis-issuance of a certificate
  can be avoided by a CA if it makes use of logs that are capable of
  performing these checks for the types of certificates that are
  submitted,

The CA can obviously perform these checks itself, logs are not special in
this regard.

Throughout this section there is talk about syntactic checking by logs,
which is not a defined function of logs.

Unfortunately, experience suggests that
  many browsers do not perform thorough syntactic checks on
  certificates, and so it seems unlikely that browsers will be a
  reliable way to detect erroneous certificates.

What is unfortunate is that a very large number of extant certs have syntax
errors and so browsers can't usefully perform checks.

Moreover, a protocol
  used by a browser to notify a Subject and/or CA of an erroneous
  certificate represents a DoS potential, and thus may not be
  appropriate.

Subjects are already subject to DoS by virtue of serving web pages. This
doesn't seem like a valid concern.

Such browsers would benefit from
  having such checks performed by a log and reported in the SCT.

Browsers don't need help to perform syntax checks, it just isn't viable to
do so.

Page 26.

Thus, for now, CT does not seem to provide a
  way to remedy this form of attack, even though it provides a basis
  for detecting such attacks.

CT doesn't claim to provide remedies for attacks, just information that
reveals them. Once more, you are describing  a flaw with the whole system,
not a flaw in CT.

 Absent a well-defined mechanism that enables Monitors to verify that
  data from logs are reported in a consistent fashion, CT cannot claim
  to provide protection against logs that are malicious or may
  conspire with, or are victims of, attackers effecting certificate
  mis-issuance. The mechanism needs to protect the privacy of users
  with respect to which web sites they visit. It needs to scale to
  accommodate a potentially large number of self-monitoring Subjects
  and a vast number of browsers, if browsers are part of the
  mechanism. Even when an Audit mechanism is defined, it will be
  necessary to describe how the CT system will deal with a misbehaving
  or compromised log. For example, will there be a mechanism to alert
  all browsers to reject SCTs issued by such a log? Absent a
  description of a remediation strategy to deal with misbehaving or
  compromised logs, CT cannot ensure detection of mis-issuance in a
  wide range of scenarios.

The absence of a standard to do a thing does not make the thing impossible.
In practice, none of this actually seems to be a problem, nor in need of
standardisation at this time.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>(looking at the TXT version)</div><div><br></div><div=
>Page 3</div><div><br></div>First para ends with a spurious &quot;)&quot;.<=
div><br></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:&#39;courier=
 new&#39;;font-size:13.3333px;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255=
,253,245)">   There are two classes of beneficiaries of CT: certificate Sub=
jects</span></div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e2b-ea2c-962b-363158be191f"><span style=3D"=
font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vert=
ical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0and relying parties (RPs). In the initial focus context of CT=
, the</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new=
&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;backgro=
und-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;whi=
te-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0Web PKI, =
Subjects are web sites and RPs are browsers employing HTTPS</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0=
);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253=
,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-lin=
e-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier=
 new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;bac=
kground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0to access these web sites.</sp=
an></span><div><br></div><div>CAs are also beneficiaries - they get to find=
 out about key loss or abuse of their platform, for example.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-f=
amily:&#39;courier new&#39;;font-size:13.3333px;white-space:pre-wrap;backgr=
ound-color:rgb(255,253,245)">it directs a replying party to an OCSP</span><=
/div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-internal-gu=
id-7c6b0a0e-2e2d-5ef5-354f-808237ae692f"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px=
;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline=
;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0serve=
r</span></span><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"courier new"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:13.3333px;white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></font>Should be =
&quot;relying&quot;.</div><div><br></div><div>Page 4</div><div><br></div><d=
iv><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0=
a0e-2e2e-f2d1-0cb2-a49e9817a8e3"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-fa=
mily:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-s=
pace:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">   Finally, if an RP were =
to check logs for</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39=
;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-=
wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;whi=
te-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0individua=
l certificates, that would disclose to logs the identity of</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0=
);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253=
,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-colo=
r:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0web sites being visited by the RP, a priva=
cy violation. Thus this</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-famil=
y:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-spac=
e:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333=
px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseli=
ne;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0att=
ack model assumes that RPs will not check log entries.</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);ver=
tical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)=
"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><=
/span></div><div><br></div><div>It is not clear that:</div><div><br></div><=
div>a) All RPs care about privacy in this respect,</div><div><br></div><div=
>b) That checking logs is necessarily privacy violating (for example, we&#3=
9;ve announced an experimental DNS-based protocol for log checking, which w=
e are implementing in Chrome),</div><div><br></div><div>therefore it seems =
unwarranted to assume that RPs will not check log entries.</div><div><br></=
div><div>Page 5</div><div><br></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e34-d5f7-d663-f219714ccf95"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0)=
;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,=
245)">   There is no</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&=
#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:p=
re-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-f=
amily:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-=
space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0agreed-upon =
Audit function design for CT at the time of this</span><span style=3D"font-=
size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-=
align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br =
class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);=
vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,2=
45)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0writing. As a result, the model merely notes where Auditi=
ng is</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new=
&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;backgro=
und-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-=
line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;cour=
ier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;=
background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0needed to detect certain cl=
asses of attacks.</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39=
;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-=
wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-kix-line-break"></span></span></div><br>Section 9.4 of 6962-bis-14 =
has a comprehensive design for auditing.<div><br></div><div>Page 6</div><di=
v><br></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6=
b0a0e-2e36-0462-d1d3-322c1a8fff8c"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-=
family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white=
-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">    [ 4] SCT (embedded i=
n pre-cert, if applicable)</span></span><br></div><br>SCTs are not embedded=
 in pre-certs.<div><br></div><div>Page 8</div><div><br></div><div><span id=
=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e36-bdf0-48a6-8571b45d1c=
19"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-colo=
r:rgb(255,253,245)">   Spoofing</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;fo=
nt-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-fa=
mily:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-s=
pace:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0enables an ad=
versary to acquire information that a TLS-enabled</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical=
-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br=
 class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size=
:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-alig=
n:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=
=C2=A0client would not communicate if the client were aware of the</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rg=
b(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(=
255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0=
,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,2=
53,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0spoofing.</span></span><br></div><br>There are surely=
 many other issues with spoofing - e.g. serving malware.<div><br></div><div=
><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e37-c441-8214-a6ebc83=
2199d"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;=
;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-c=
olor:rgb(255,253,245)">   An adversary</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.33=
33px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:base=
line;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-f=
amily:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-=
space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0may achieve =
this in various ways, e.g., by causing a user to click</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);ver=
tical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)=
"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align=
:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=
=C2=A0on a link to the website, or by manipulation of the DNS response</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:=
rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0=
);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253=
,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0sent to a TLS client.</span></span><br></div><br>If a l=
ink alone works, then the site is not spoofed with a mis-issued certificate=
, surely?<div><br></div><div>Also, MitM is probably the most common attack =
vector.</div><div><br></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0=
a0e-2e6d-b0ce-98a7-5e069af6c866"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-fa=
mily:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-s=
pace:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">   The elements of CT may =
themselves be targets of attacks, as</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333=
px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseli=
ne;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#=
39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pr=
e-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0described below. A c=
riminal organization might compromise a CA and</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-al=
ign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br cl=
ass=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font=
-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;whit=
e-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0cause it t=
o issue bogus certificates, or it may exert influence over</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0)=
;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,=
245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13=
.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:b=
aseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=
=A0a CA (or CA staff) to do so, e.g., through extortion or physical</span><=
span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:r=
gb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb=
(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertica=
l-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =
=C2=A0=C2=A0threat. (Even though the CA is not intentionally malicious in t=
his</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#=
39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;backgroun=
d-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0=
,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,2=
53,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0case, the action is equivalent to a malicious CA, hen=
ce the use of</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;cou=
rier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap=
;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color=
:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0the term &quot;bogus&quot; here.) A nation =
state may operate or influence a CA</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333p=
x;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baselin=
e;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#3=
9;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre=
-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0that is part of the l=
arge set of &quot;root CAs&quot; in browsers. A CA,</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertic=
al-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><=
br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px=
;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline=
;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0actin=
g in this fashion, is termed a &quot;malicious&quot; CA. A nation state</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color=
:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D=
"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);ver=
tical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)=
"> =C2=A0=C2=A0also might compromise a CA in another country, to effect iss=
uance of</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier =
new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;back=
ground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rg=
b(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(=
255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0bogus certificates. In this case the (non-malici=
ous) CA, upon</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;cou=
rier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap=
;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color=
:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0detecting the compromise (perhaps because o=
f CT) is expected to work</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-fam=
ily:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-sp=
ace:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line=
-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier =
new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;back=
ground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0with Subjects to remedy the mis=
-issuance.</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courie=
r new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;ba=
ckground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span>=
</span></div><div><br></div><div>There&#39;s also social engineering, which=
 is mentioned elsewhere, but I suspect should be here, too.</div><div><br><=
/div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e6f-2dc8-8cfb-8a25c16252=
6b"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-colo=
r:rgb(255,253,245)">   It seems unlikely that a</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-a=
lign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br c=
lass=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-fami=
ly:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-spa=
ce:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0compromised, no=
n-malicious, log would...</span></span><br></div><br>This seems odd - a com=
promised non-malicious log is effectively uncompromised, isn&#39;t it?<div>=
<br></div><div>Page 9.</div><div><br></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c=
6b0a0e-2e70-37c9-babd-f9eb7ad9d689"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font=
-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;whit=
e-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">   CT is not designed t=
o</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39=
;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-=
color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-a=
lign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=
=A0=C2=A0detect and counter this type of locally-authorized interception.</=
span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-col=
or:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span></span></div><div><span>=
<span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:=
rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rg=
b(255,253,245)"><br></span></span></div>Actually CT is designed to detect i=
t but it seems likely that browsers will explicitly ignore it.<div><br></di=
v><div>Page 10.</div><div><br></div><div>(and elsewhere) is there really an=
y difference between a benign third-part monitor and self-monitoring? Could=
n&#39;t the doc be simplified by treating them as the same?</div><div><br><=
/div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e72-7840-0e88-07d2393e07bb"><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,=
0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,25=
3,245)">   (A misbehaving log also could create and report entries</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rg=
b(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(=
255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;fo=
nt-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0for bogu=
s certificates that have not been issued by the indicated CA</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,=
0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,25=
3,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-fam=
ily:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-sp=
ace:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0(hereafter cal=
led &quot;fake&quot;)</span></span><br></div><br><div>This is slightly conf=
using, as on the face of it, the log could not create such a cert, since it=
 doesn&#39;t have the CA key. Later wording makes it clear that the idea is=
 that the cert would not, in fact, be signed by a trusted CA.</div><div><br=
></div><div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e7a-1ab8-799d-be115d32a4ba"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0=
,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,2=
53,245)">3.1.1.2.1/</span></span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-famil=
y:&#39;courier new&#39;;font-size:13.3333px;white-space:pre-wrap;background=
-color:rgb(255,253,245)">3.1.1.2.2</span><span><span style=3D"font-size:13.=
3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:ba=
seline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br></span><=
/span></div></div><br>Since I think that benign third party and self monito=
rs are essentially the same, it is odd that these two sections differ so mu=
ch.<div><br></div><div>Page 11.</div><div><br></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e7b-461=
4-ccc7-0ae482e1432a"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;co=
urier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wra=
p;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">   Note that independent of any mis-is=
suance on the part of the CA, a</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;fo=
nt-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"=
font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vert=
ical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0misbehaving Monitor could issue false warnings to a Subject t=
hat it</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier ne=
w&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;backgr=
ound-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-=
family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white=
-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0protects. T=
hese could cause the Subject to report non-existent</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertic=
al-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><=
br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></=
span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-col=
or:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0semantic problems to the issuing CA and c=
ause the CA to do needless</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-fa=
mily:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-s=
pace:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-=
size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-=
align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=
=A0=C2=A0investigative work or perhaps incorrectly revoke and re-issue the<=
/span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;=
color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-co=
lor:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:=
&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:=
pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0Subject&#39;s cert=
ificate.</span></span><br></div><br>This para is general, rather than to do=
 with the section it is in, and hence should probably be somewhere else.<di=
v><br></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-in=
ternal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e7c-7d96-93e9-c118faeb8c32"><span style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align=
:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">   Howeve=
r, the CT architecture does not describe how</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-alig=
n:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br clas=
s=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,=
0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,25=
3,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0such behavior by browsers can be deployed incrementall=
y throughout</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;cour=
ier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;=
background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-=
family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white=
-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0the Interne=
t. As a result, this attack model does not assume that</span><span style=3D=
"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);ver=
tical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)=
"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:=
rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0browsers will reject a certificate that is n=
ot accompanied by an</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&=
#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:p=
re-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333=
px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseli=
ne;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0SCT=
.</span></span><br></div><br>Given that incremental deployment is already u=
nder way, this seems unnecessarily dogmatic.<div><br></div><div>Page 13.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-in=
ternal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e7d-7825-42b0-ad326097ad22"><span style=3D"font-size:=
13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align=
:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">   For ex=
ample, the CA could make excuses about inadequate</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical=
-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br=
 class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0=
);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253=
,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0proof that the certificate is bogus, or argue that it c=
annot quickly</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;cou=
rier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap=
;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-famil=
y:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-spac=
e:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0revoke the certi=
ficate because of legal concerns, etc. In this case,</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);verti=
cal-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">=
<br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,=
0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,=
253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0the CT mechanisms will have detected mis-issuance, b=
ut the</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier ne=
w&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;backgr=
ound-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;=
courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-w=
rap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0information logged by C=
T does not help remedy the problem. (See</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.=
3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:ba=
seline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D=
"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertica=
l-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =
=C2=A0=C2=A0Sections 4 and 6.)</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;whi=
te-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span></span></div><br>The logged =
information clearly _helps_, it just may not be all that is needed.<div><br=
></div><div>Page 14.</div><div><br></div><div>3.2.2.1 is essentially the sa=
me as 3.1.1.2, just refer to the previous text?</div><div><br></div><div>Pa=
ge 15.</div><div><br></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs=
-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e81-46e5-da2a-5e43e47e4856"><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-al=
ign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">   The=
ir goal would be trick a CT-aware browser into accepting a</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0)=
;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,=
245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,=
0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,=
253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0bogus certificate because it was accompanied by a va=
lid SCT, while</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;co=
urier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wra=
p;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#3=
9;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre=
-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0evading certificate r=
evocation status indications. This section</span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
3.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:=
baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=
=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-a=
lign:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=
=A0=C2=A0explores such scenarios.</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;=
font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;=
white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span></span></div><br>The attack as =
described only requires colluding CAs in the case where EE certs do not con=
tain links to revocation information.<br><br>When EE certs do contain such =
links, the attack described is simply an attack on certificate revocation, =
regardless of whether one or more CAs might have issued the doppelgangers.<=
br><br>In either case, the attack is nothing to do with CT, which does not =
claim to do anything to help with integrity or correctness of revocation in=
formation.<div><br></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-internal-guid=
-7c6b0a0e-2e82-6ce8-39bb-8db752eb9d9d"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;f=
ont-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;w=
hite-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">   Even if the bogus=
 certificates contain an AIA extension pointing to</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertica=
l-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><b=
r class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
3.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:=
baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=
=A0an OCSP server the attack might still succeed. (As noted in the</span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rg=
b(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(=
255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0)=
;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,=
245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0Section 1, RFC 5280 does not mandate inclusion this exte=
nsion, but</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courie=
r new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;ba=
ckground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break=
"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#3=
9;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background=
-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0its presence is required by CABF requ=
irements.) =C2=A0As noted in Section</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333=
px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseli=
ne;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-=
family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white=
-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A03.2.1.1.1, =
a malicious CA could send a &quot;good&quot; OCSP response to a</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0=
,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255=
,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);=
vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,2=
45)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0targeted browser instance, even if other parties are prov=
ided with a</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;couri=
er new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;b=
ackground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-brea=
k"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#=
39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;backgroun=
d-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0&quot;revoked&quot; response. Also n=
ote that a TLS server can supply an OCSP</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.=
3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:ba=
seline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D=
"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;f=
ont-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;w=
hite-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0respons=
e to a browser as part of the TLS handshake [RFC6961], if</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);=
vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,2=
45)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font=
-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical=
-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =
=C2=A0=C2=A0requested by the browser. A TLS server posing as the entity nam=
ed in</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new=
&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;backgro=
und-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-colo=
r:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0the bogus certificate could acquire a &quo=
t;good&quot; OCSP response from the</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333p=
x;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baselin=
e;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-f=
amily:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-=
space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0colluding CA=
s to effect the attack. Only if the browser relies upon</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);=
vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,2=
45)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font=
-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical=
-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =
=C2=A0=C2=A0a trusted, third-party OCSP responder, one not part of the</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:=
rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,=
0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,=
253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0collusion, would the attack fail.</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);=
vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,2=
45)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span></span></div><div><=
span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-col=
or:rgb(255,253,245)"><br></span></span></div>All this is independent of the=
 attack and of CT, and applies generally to revocation.<div><br></div><div>=
<span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e83-2b07-4520-9cea69de536a"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb=
(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(2=
55,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-ali=
gn:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=
=C2=A0The analysis above also applies to the use of CRLs to disseminate</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color=
:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertic=
al-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =
=C2=A0=C2=A0certificate revocation status data. The doppelganger certificat=
e</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39=
;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-=
color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);=
vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,2=
45)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0could contain a CRL distribution point extension instead =
of an AIA</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier=
 new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;bac=
kground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(=
0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(25=
5,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0extension. In that case a site supplying CRLs for =
the colluding CAs</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39=
;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-=
wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-colo=
r:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0could supply different CRLs to different r=
equestors, in an attempt</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-fami=
ly:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-spa=
ce:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-bre=
ak"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&=
#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0to hide the revocation status of th=
e doppelganger from targeted</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-=
family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white=
-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line=
-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier =
new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;back=
ground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0browsers instances. This is ana=
logous to a split-view attack</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font=
-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;whit=
e-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-lin=
e-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier=
 new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;bac=
kground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0effected by a CT log. However,=
 as noted in Section 3.2.1.1 and</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;f=
ont-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;w=
hite-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-=
line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;cour=
ier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;=
background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A03.2.1.1.1, no element of CT=
 is responsible for detecting</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font=
-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;whit=
e-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-lin=
e-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier=
 new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;bac=
kground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0inconsistent reporting of cert=
ificate revocation status data.</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;fo=
nt-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-l=
ine-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;couri=
er new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;b=
ackground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0(Monitoring in the CT contex=
t tracks log entries made by CAs or</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333p=
x;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baselin=
e;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-k=
ix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;c=
ourier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wr=
ap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0Subjects. Auditing is de=
signed to detect misbehavior by logs, not by</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-alig=
n:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br clas=
s=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-fami=
ly:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-spa=
ce:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0CAs per se.)</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-colo=
r:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span></span></div><br=
>Likewise.<div><br></div><div>Page 20.</div><div><br></div><div><span id=3D=
"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-do=
cs-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e84-78e2-2f1e-fa91e6f69804"><span style=3D"font-=
size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-=
align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">   T=
his will happen</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;c=
ourier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wr=
ap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(=
0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(25=
5,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0only if the log performs syntactic checks in gener=
al, and if the log</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#3=
9;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre=
-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><=
span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:r=
gb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb=
(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0is capable of performing the checks applicable =
to the submitted</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;=
courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-w=
rap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb=
(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(2=
55,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0(pre-)certificate. </span></span><br></div><br>An=
yone can detect syntactic mis-issuance, the log does not need to do it.<div=
><br></div><div>For example:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/url?q=
=3Dhttps://crt.sh/?cablint%3D1%2Bweek&amp;sa=3DD&amp;ust=3D1461067017647000=
&amp;usg=3DAFQjCNHX_OatZkczH7TIIEeyYuTshcFzIg" style=3D"font-size:13px;text=
-decoration:none;color:rgb(102,17,204);font-family:arial,sans-serif,sans">h=
ttps://crt.sh/?cablint=3D1+week</a>.</div><div><br></div><div>Page 21.</div=
><div><br></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-=
gmail-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e86-69bc-5eb2-384d4740079f"><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,=
0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,=
253,245)">   If the (pre-)certificate is submitted by the non-malicious iss=
uing</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&=
#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;backgrou=
nd-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333p=
x;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baselin=
e;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0CA, =
and if the CA has a record of the certificate content</span></span><br></di=
v><div><span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier ne=
w&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;backgr=
ound-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br></span></span></div>Clearly there is a rec=
ord in the log!<div><br></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmai=
l-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e87-588d-5c58-fce0a3d52b1b=
"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:=
rgb(255,253,245)">   This analysis suggests that syntactic mis-issuance of =
a certificate</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;cou=
rier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap=
;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gm=
ail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.33=
33px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:base=
line;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0c=
an be avoided by a CA if it makes use of logs that are capable of</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb=
(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(2=
55,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-k=
ix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;c=
ourier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wr=
ap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0performing these checks =
for the types of certificates that are</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.33=
33px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:base=
line;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0=
,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255=
,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0submitted, </span></span><br></div><br>The CA can o=
bviously perform these checks itself, logs are not special in this regard.<=
div><br></div><div>Throughout this section there is talk about syntactic ch=
ecking by logs, which is not a defined function of logs.</div><div><br></di=
v><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-internal-=
guid-7c6b0a0e-2e88-f537-e171-9007ea96fc92"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333=
px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseli=
ne;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">   Unfortunately=
, experience suggests that</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-fa=
mily:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-s=
pace:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-g=
mail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-ali=
gn:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=
=C2=A0many browsers do not perform thorough syntactic checks on</span><span=
 style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0=
,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255=
,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-=
break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier n=
ew&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;backg=
round-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0certificates, and so it seems un=
likely that browsers will be a</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;fon=
t-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;whi=
te-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gma=
il-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font=
-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical=
-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =
=C2=A0=C2=A0reliable way to detect erroneous certificates. </span></span><b=
r></div><br>What is unfortunate is that a very large number of extant certs=
 have syntax errors and so browsers can&#39;t usefully perform checks.<div>=
<br></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-docs-internal-guid=
-7c6b0a0e-2e89-8efd-f12c-2ab19cb0f751"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;f=
ont-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;w=
hite-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">   Moreover, a proto=
col</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#=
39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;backgroun=
d-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-li=
ne-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courie=
r new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;ba=
ckground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0used by a browser to notify a=
 Subject and/or CA of an erroneous</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px=
;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline=
;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail=
-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13=
.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:b=
aseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=
=A0certificate represents a DoS potential, and thus may not be</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,=
0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,=
253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span=
><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color=
:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:r=
gb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0appropriate.</span></span><br></div><br>Subje=
cts are already subject to DoS by virtue of serving web pages. This doesn&#=
39;t seem like a valid concern.<div><br></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-gmail-=
gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e8a-4d2b-8afd-1e9b4aa2b3bc"><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);=
vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,2=
45)">   Such browsers would benefit from</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.=
3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:ba=
seline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D=
"gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333p=
x;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baselin=
e;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0havi=
ng such checks performed by a log and reported in the SCT.</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0)=
;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,=
245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span></span></div><b=
r>Browsers don&#39;t need help to perform syntax checks, it just isn&#39;t =
viable to do so.<div><br></div><div>Page 26.<br><div><br></div><div><span i=
d=3D"gmail-gmail-docs-internal-guid-7c6b0a0e-2e8b-a46f-dda3-f00f4da82e1c"><=
span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:r=
gb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb=
(255,253,245)">   Thus, for now, CT does not seem to provide a</span><span =
style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,=
0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,=
253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertic=
al-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =
=C2=A0=C2=A0way to remedy this form of attack, even though it provides a ba=
sis</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#=
39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;backgroun=
d-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span><=
span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:r=
gb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb=
(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0for detecting such attacks.</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);=
vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,2=
45)"><br class=3D"gmail-gmail-kix-line-break"></span></span></div><br>CT do=
esn&#39;t claim to provide remedies for attacks, just information that reve=
als them. Once more, you are describing =C2=A0a flaw with the whole system,=
 not a flaw in CT.<div><br></div><div><span id=3D"gmail-docs-internal-guid-=
7c6b0a0e-2e90-fc62-71e5-e562bfdd4aa0"><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;fo=
nt-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)">  =C2=A0Absent a well=
-defined mechanism that enables Monitors to verify that</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);=
vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,2=
45)"><br class=3D"gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.=
3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:ba=
seline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=
=A0data from logs are reported in a consistent fashion, CT cannot claim</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color=
:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D=
"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);ver=
tical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)=
"> =C2=A0=C2=A0to provide protection against logs that are malicious or may=
</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;=
;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-c=
olor:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0)=
;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,=
245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0conspire with, or are victims of, attackers effecting ce=
rtificate</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier=
 new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;bac=
kground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-kix-line-break"></span><=
span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:r=
gb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb=
(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0mis-issuance. The mechanism needs to protect th=
e privacy of users</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#3=
9;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre=
-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-kix-line-break"=
></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39=
;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-=
color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0with respect to which web sites they v=
isit. It needs to scale to</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-fa=
mily:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-s=
pace:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-kix-lin=
e-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier=
 new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;bac=
kground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0accommodate a potentially larg=
e number of self-monitoring Subjects</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333=
px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseli=
ne;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gma=
il-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#=
39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pr=
e-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0and a vast number of=
 browsers, if browsers are part of the</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.33=
33px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:base=
line;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"g=
mail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:=
&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:=
pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0mechanism. Even wh=
en an Audit mechanism is defined, it will be</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-alig=
n:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br clas=
s=3D"gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-f=
amily:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-=
space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0necessary to=
 describe how the CT system will deal with a misbehaving</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);=
vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,2=
45)"><br class=3D"gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"font-size:13.=
3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:ba=
seline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=
=A0or compromised log. For example, will there be a mechanism to alert</spa=
n><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:=
rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=3D"=
font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vert=
ical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0all browsers to reject SCTs issued by such a log? Absent a</s=
pan><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;co=
lor:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-colo=
r:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-kix-line-break"></span><span style=
=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);=
vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,2=
45)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0description of a remediation strategy to deal with misbeh=
aving or</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier =
new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;back=
ground-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-kix-line-break"></span><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rg=
b(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(=
255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0compromised logs, CT cannot ensure detection of =
mis-issuance in a</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39=
;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-=
wrap;background-color:rgb(255,253,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-kix-line-break">=
</span><span style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;=
;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-c=
olor:rgb(255,253,245)"> =C2=A0=C2=A0wide range of scenarios.</span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:13.3333px;font-family:&#39;courier new&#39;;color:rgb(0,0,=
0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:rgb(255,25=
3,245)"><br class=3D"gmail-kix-line-break"></span></span></div></div><br><d=
iv>The absence of a standard to do a thing does not make the thing impossib=
le. In practice, none of this actually seems to be a problem, nor in need o=
f standardisation at this time.</div><div><br></div></div>

--047d7bd76d7a0486a80530d604ae--


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To: "trans@ietf.org" <trans@ietf.org>
From: Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:08:06 -0800
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Subject: [Trans] IETF 96 planning
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Hi, all:

At the moment it doesn't look like there's much on the
table[*], although we've got some pending work on gossip and
on logging other types of data (DNSSEC, blobs).  I'm
hopeful that we'll be making progress on both types of
documents and it's possible there will be issues that will
benefit from face-to-face discussion, so I'd like to go
ahead and request a 1-hour session, with the possibility
of cancelling it if we don't need it.  If you are planning
on asking for time on the agenda, please make sure that
there's been enough mailing list discussion of your draft
to identify what issues would benefit from in-person
conversation.

Melinda

[* the -bis document will be starting working group last call
shortly, and the threat document will restart working group
last call once Steve addresses Ben's comments.]


From nobody Tue Apr 26 12:13:49 2016
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From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
To: "trans\@ietf.org" <trans@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Trans] STHExtension expression
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in rfc6962-bis-14, both the TreeHeadDataV2 (section 5.7) and
SignedTreeHeadDataV2 (section 5.8) structures have an SthExtensions
member.  The SignedTreeHeadDataV2 structure itself contains a
digitally-signed struct "signature" that contains a TransItem
merkle_tree_head which is constrained to be a TreeHeadDataV2.

  https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-trans-rfc6962-bis-14

I'm assuming that the the implication here is that
SignedTreeHeadDataV2.signature.merkel_tree_head is not expected to be
literally included in the bytestream, or else we'd have two copies of
the sth_extensions field in the SignedTreeHeadDataV2, which i don't
think we want.

But the specification of whether SthExtensions are present is unclear.
in the STHv2 description, it says:

       enum {
           reserved(65535)
       } SthExtensionType;

       struct {
           SthExtensionType sth_extension_type;
           opaque sth_extension_data<0..2^16-1>;
       } SthExtension;

       struct {
           LogID log_id;
           uint64 timestamp;
           uint64 tree_size;
           NodeHash root_hash;
           SthExtension sth_extensions<0..2^16-1>;
           digitally-signed struct {
               TransItem merkle_tree_head;
           } signature;
       } SignedTreeHeadDataV2;

 [...]

   "sth_extensions" is a vector of 0 or more STH extensions.  This
   vector MUST NOT include more than one extension with the same
   "sth_extension_type".  The extensions in the vector MUST be ordered
   by the value of the "sth_extension_type" field, smallest value first.
   If an implementation sees an extension that it does not understand,
   it SHOULD ignore that extension.  Furthermore, an implementation MAY
   choose to ignore any extension(s) that it does understand.

This is not an "opaque" data type, so there is no indicator of the
number of extensions available in the bytestream.

Consider the case of zero extensions:

 log_id
 timestamp
 tree_size
 root_hash
 signature

and the case of one extension:

 log_id
 timestamp
 tree_size
 root_hash
 extension_0
 signature

if the start of the signature was mistakable for the start of an
SthExtension, then there is a potential for ambiguity.

This concatenated array representation is used in TreeHeadDataV2, as
well as in TLS 1.2 for client and server Extensions (a list of TLV
extensions at the tail of the Hello handshake message), and for
Certificate messages (a distinct and independent Certificate handshake
message).  But those uses have the advantage of an external frame
indicating the overall length of the repeated datatype.

I see four possible resolutions, none of which are that great; i'd be
happy with a better proposal:

(a) explicitly indicate the number of extensions to expect:

index ef69039..0b09171 100644
--- a/rfc6962-bis.xml
+++ b/rfc6962-bis.xml
@@ -654,6 +654,7 @@ d0 d1   d2 d3           d0 d1   d2 d3  d4 d5</artwork>
         uint64 timestamp;
         uint64 tree_size;
         NodeHash root_hash;
+        uint8 extension_count;
         SthExtension sth_extensions&lt;0..2^16-1&gt;;
         digitally-signed struct {
             TransItem merkle_tree_head;

(b) If the size of the signature is guaranteed to be known or computable
    in advance, move the extensions to follow the signature, so that
    they're delimited by the size and framing of the STHv2 itself:

--- a/rfc6962-bis.xml
+++ b/rfc6962-bis.xml
@@ -654,10 +654,10 @@ d0 d1   d2 d3           d0 d1   d2 d3  d4 d5</artwork>
         uint64 timestamp;
         uint64 tree_size;
         NodeHash root_hash;
-        SthExtension sth_extensions&lt;0..2^16-1&gt;;
         digitally-signed struct {
             TransItem merkle_tree_head;
         } signature;
+        SthExtension sth_extensions&lt;0..2^16-1&gt;;
     } SignedTreeHeadDataV2;</artwork>
         </figure>
         <t>

(c) If the size of the signature is guaranteed to be known or computable
    in advance, provide guidance on determining the signatures in a
    reverse scan:

--- a/rfc6962-bis.xml
+++ b/rfc6962-bis.xml
@@ -682,6 +682,12 @@ d0 d1   d2 d3           d0 d1   d2 d3  d4 d5</artwork>
           <spanx style="verb">sth_extensions</spanx> is a vector of 0 or more STH extensions. This vector MUST NOT include more than one extension with the same <spanx style="verb">sth_extension_type</spanx>. The extensions in the vector MUST be ordered by the value of the <spanx style="verb">sth_extension_type</spanx> field, smallest value first. If an implementation sees an extension that it does not understand, it SHOULD ignore that extension. Furthermore, an implementation MAY choose to ignore any extension(s) that it does understand.
         </t>
         <t>
+          To determine the size of the <spanx
+          style="verb">sth_extensions</spanx> field, subtract the
+          expected size of the <spanx style="verb">signature</spanx>
+          field from the size of the SignedTreeHeadDataV2 object.
+        </t>
+        <t>
           <spanx style="verb">merkle_tree_head</spanx> is a <spanx style="verb">TransItem</spanx> structure that MUST be of type <spanx style="verb">tree_head_v2</spanx> (see <xref target="tree_head"/>).
         </t>
       </section>


(d) treat the signature as a very special-cased extension:

--- a/rfc6962-bis.xml
+++ b/rfc6962-bis.xml
@@ -628,7 +628,7 @@ d0 d1   d2 d3           d0 d1   d2 d3  d4 d5</artwork>
           <spanx style="verb">root_hash</spanx> is the root of the Merkle Hash Tree.
         </t>
         <t>
-          <spanx style="verb">sth_extensions</spanx> matches the STH extensions of the corresponding STH.
+          <spanx style="verb">sth_extensions</spanx> matches the STH extensions of the corresponding STH, with the "signature" extension removed.
         </t>
       </section>
       <section title="Signed Tree Head (STH)" anchor="STH">
@@ -641,7 +641,7 @@ d0 d1   d2 d3           d0 d1   d2 d3  d4 d5</artwork>
           </preamble>
           <artwork>
     enum {
-        reserved(65535)
+        signature(65535)
     } SthExtensionType;
 
     struct {
@@ -655,9 +655,6 @@ d0 d1   d2 d3           d0 d1   d2 d3  d4 d5</artwork>
         uint64 tree_size;
         NodeHash root_hash;
         SthExtension sth_extensions&lt;0..2^16-1&gt;;
-        digitally-signed struct {
-            TransItem merkle_tree_head;
-        } signature;
     } SignedTreeHeadDataV2;</artwork>
         </figure>
         <t>
@@ -682,6 +679,15 @@ d0 d1   d2 d3           d0 d1   d2 d3  d4 d5</artwork>
           <spanx style="verb">sth_extensions</spanx> is a vector of 0 or more STH extensions. This vector MUST NOT include more than one extension with the same <spanx style="verb">sth_extension_type</spanx>. The extensions in the vector MUST be ordered by the value of the <spanx style="verb">sth_extension_type</spanx> field, smallest value first. If an implementation sees an extension that it does not understand, it SHOULD ignore that extension. Furthermore, an implementation MAY choose to ignore any extension(s) that it does understand.
         </t>
         <t>
+          The extension of type "signature" is special, in that it
+          contains a signature made by the log as defined in <xref
+          target="signature_algorithms"/>, and it is omitted from the
+          data being signed.  The <spanx
+          style=verb">sth_extensions</spanx> field of a
+          SignedTreeHeadDataV2 MUST contain a "signature" extension as
+          the last extension.
+        </t>
+        <t>
           <spanx style="verb">merkle_tree_head</spanx> is a <spanx style="verb">TransItem</spanx> structure that MUST be of type <spanx style="verb">tree_head_v2</spanx> (see <xref target="tree_head"/>).
         </t>
       </section>



Any suggestions on how to resolve this?

    --dkg


From nobody Tue Apr 26 13:01:08 2016
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To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>, "trans@ietf.org" <trans@ietf.org>
References: <87lh40uqsb.fsf@alice.fifthhorseman.net>
From: Rob Stradling <rob.stradling@comodo.com>
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Subject: Re: [Trans] STHExtension expression
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sth_extensions is a variable-length vector (see 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5246#section-4.3).  "<0..2^16-1>" means 
that the first two bytes of the encoding of this field are the length of 
its value.  In the case of zero extensions, these two bytes will be: 
0x00 0x00.

There's no ambiguity AFAICT.

Does this resolve your concern?

On 26/04/16 20:13, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote:
> in rfc6962-bis-14, both the TreeHeadDataV2 (section 5.7) and
> SignedTreeHeadDataV2 (section 5.8) structures have an SthExtensions
> member.  The SignedTreeHeadDataV2 structure itself contains a
> digitally-signed struct "signature" that contains a TransItem
> merkle_tree_head which is constrained to be a TreeHeadDataV2.
>
>   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-trans-rfc6962-bis-14
>
> I'm assuming that the the implication here is that
> SignedTreeHeadDataV2.signature.merkel_tree_head is not expected to be
> literally included in the bytestream, or else we'd have two copies of
> the sth_extensions field in the SignedTreeHeadDataV2, which i don't
> think we want.
>
> But the specification of whether SthExtensions are present is unclear.
> in the STHv2 description, it says:
>
>        enum {
>            reserved(65535)
>        } SthExtensionType;
>
>        struct {
>            SthExtensionType sth_extension_type;
>            opaque sth_extension_data<0..2^16-1>;
>        } SthExtension;
>
>        struct {
>            LogID log_id;
>            uint64 timestamp;
>            uint64 tree_size;
>            NodeHash root_hash;
>            SthExtension sth_extensions<0..2^16-1>;
>            digitally-signed struct {
>                TransItem merkle_tree_head;
>            } signature;
>        } SignedTreeHeadDataV2;
>
>  [...]
>
>    "sth_extensions" is a vector of 0 or more STH extensions.  This
>    vector MUST NOT include more than one extension with the same
>    "sth_extension_type".  The extensions in the vector MUST be ordered
>    by the value of the "sth_extension_type" field, smallest value first.
>    If an implementation sees an extension that it does not understand,
>    it SHOULD ignore that extension.  Furthermore, an implementation MAY
>    choose to ignore any extension(s) that it does understand.
>
> This is not an "opaque" data type, so there is no indicator of the
> number of extensions available in the bytestream.
>
> Consider the case of zero extensions:
>
>  log_id
>  timestamp
>  tree_size
>  root_hash
>  signature
>
> and the case of one extension:
>
>  log_id
>  timestamp
>  tree_size
>  root_hash
>  extension_0
>  signature
>
> if the start of the signature was mistakable for the start of an
> SthExtension, then there is a potential for ambiguity.
>
> This concatenated array representation is used in TreeHeadDataV2, as
> well as in TLS 1.2 for client and server Extensions (a list of TLV
> extensions at the tail of the Hello handshake message), and for
> Certificate messages (a distinct and independent Certificate handshake
> message).  But those uses have the advantage of an external frame
> indicating the overall length of the repeated datatype.
>
> I see four possible resolutions, none of which are that great; i'd be
> happy with a better proposal:
>
> (a) explicitly indicate the number of extensions to expect:
>
> index ef69039..0b09171 100644
> --- a/rfc6962-bis.xml
> +++ b/rfc6962-bis.xml
> @@ -654,6 +654,7 @@ d0 d1   d2 d3           d0 d1   d2 d3  d4 d5</artwork>
>          uint64 timestamp;
>          uint64 tree_size;
>          NodeHash root_hash;
> +        uint8 extension_count;
>          SthExtension sth_extensions&lt;0..2^16-1&gt;;
>          digitally-signed struct {
>              TransItem merkle_tree_head;
>
> (b) If the size of the signature is guaranteed to be known or computable
>     in advance, move the extensions to follow the signature, so that
>     they're delimited by the size and framing of the STHv2 itself:
>
> --- a/rfc6962-bis.xml
> +++ b/rfc6962-bis.xml
> @@ -654,10 +654,10 @@ d0 d1   d2 d3           d0 d1   d2 d3  d4 d5</artwork>
>          uint64 timestamp;
>          uint64 tree_size;
>          NodeHash root_hash;
> -        SthExtension sth_extensions&lt;0..2^16-1&gt;;
>          digitally-signed struct {
>              TransItem merkle_tree_head;
>          } signature;
> +        SthExtension sth_extensions&lt;0..2^16-1&gt;;
>      } SignedTreeHeadDataV2;</artwork>
>          </figure>
>          <t>
>
> (c) If the size of the signature is guaranteed to be known or computable
>     in advance, provide guidance on determining the signatures in a
>     reverse scan:
>
> --- a/rfc6962-bis.xml
> +++ b/rfc6962-bis.xml
> @@ -682,6 +682,12 @@ d0 d1   d2 d3           d0 d1   d2 d3  d4 d5</artwork>
>            <spanx style="verb">sth_extensions</spanx> is a vector of 0 or more STH extensions. This vector MUST NOT include more than one extension with the same <spanx style="verb">sth_extension_type</spanx>. The extensions in the vector MUST be ordered by the value of the <spanx style="verb">sth_extension_type</spanx> field, smallest value first. If an implementation sees an extension that it does not understand, it SHOULD ignore that extension. Furthermore, an implementation MAY choose to ignore any extension(s) that it does understand.
>          </t>
>          <t>
> +          To determine the size of the <spanx
> +          style="verb">sth_extensions</spanx> field, subtract the
> +          expected size of the <spanx style="verb">signature</spanx>
> +          field from the size of the SignedTreeHeadDataV2 object.
> +        </t>
> +        <t>
>            <spanx style="verb">merkle_tree_head</spanx> is a <spanx style="verb">TransItem</spanx> structure that MUST be of type <spanx style="verb">tree_head_v2</spanx> (see <xref target="tree_head"/>).
>          </t>
>        </section>
>
>
> (d) treat the signature as a very special-cased extension:
>
> --- a/rfc6962-bis.xml
> +++ b/rfc6962-bis.xml
> @@ -628,7 +628,7 @@ d0 d1   d2 d3           d0 d1   d2 d3  d4 d5</artwork>
>            <spanx style="verb">root_hash</spanx> is the root of the Merkle Hash Tree.
>          </t>
>          <t>
> -          <spanx style="verb">sth_extensions</spanx> matches the STH extensions of the corresponding STH.
> +          <spanx style="verb">sth_extensions</spanx> matches the STH extensions of the corresponding STH, with the "signature" extension removed.
>          </t>
>        </section>
>        <section title="Signed Tree Head (STH)" anchor="STH">
> @@ -641,7 +641,7 @@ d0 d1   d2 d3           d0 d1   d2 d3  d4 d5</artwork>
>            </preamble>
>            <artwork>
>      enum {
> -        reserved(65535)
> +        signature(65535)
>      } SthExtensionType;
>
>      struct {
> @@ -655,9 +655,6 @@ d0 d1   d2 d3           d0 d1   d2 d3  d4 d5</artwork>
>          uint64 tree_size;
>          NodeHash root_hash;
>          SthExtension sth_extensions&lt;0..2^16-1&gt;;
> -        digitally-signed struct {
> -            TransItem merkle_tree_head;
> -        } signature;
>      } SignedTreeHeadDataV2;</artwork>
>          </figure>
>          <t>
> @@ -682,6 +679,15 @@ d0 d1   d2 d3           d0 d1   d2 d3  d4 d5</artwork>
>            <spanx style="verb">sth_extensions</spanx> is a vector of 0 or more STH extensions. This vector MUST NOT include more than one extension with the same <spanx style="verb">sth_extension_type</spanx>. The extensions in the vector MUST be ordered by the value of the <spanx style="verb">sth_extension_type</spanx> field, smallest value first. If an implementation sees an extension that it does not understand, it SHOULD ignore that extension. Furthermore, an implementation MAY choose to ignore any extension(s) that it does understand.
>          </t>
>          <t>
> +          The extension of type "signature" is special, in that it
> +          contains a signature made by the log as defined in <xref
> +          target="signature_algorithms"/>, and it is omitted from the
> +          data being signed.  The <spanx
> +          style=verb">sth_extensions</spanx> field of a
> +          SignedTreeHeadDataV2 MUST contain a "signature" extension as
> +          the last extension.
> +        </t>
> +        <t>
>            <spanx style="verb">merkle_tree_head</spanx> is a <spanx style="verb">TransItem</spanx> structure that MUST be of type <spanx style="verb">tree_head_v2</spanx> (see <xref target="tree_head"/>).
>          </t>
>        </section>
>
>
>
> Any suggestions on how to resolve this?
>
>     --dkg
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trans mailing list
> Trans@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/trans
>

-- 
Rob Stradling
Senior Research & Development Scientist
COMODO - Creating Trust Online


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Is it necessary for me to point out
      that this draft has not fixed the problems from the previous
      drafts? Isn't this supposed to be a <a
href="https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/trans/Chrura2NHqziL_O7a3W1ncXPTxM">working
        group document</a>? Why does the document still talk about two
      different CAs that have the same name and same key, and that are
      "both" controlled by the same entity (the attacker)?<br>
      <br>
      This insistence on referring to this CA as "two CAs" is not only
      factually wrong (as are the statements about RFC 5280), they lead
      to confusion. The text suggests that the two or more CAs that
      might collude to issue a bogus certificate are the "two CAs" that
      "have the same Subject name and the same public key," but it is
      not. The two colluding CAs are the two CAs that each issue a
      cross-certificate to the <b>one</b> (bogus) CA that issues the
      (bogus) EE certificate.<br>
      <br>
      Granted, "colluding" may not be the appropriate term. They may be
      two CAs that have been unknowingly compromised by the attacker
      into issuing the cross-certificates to the (bogus) CA controlled
      by the attacker. But what makes this attack different is the two
      cross-certificates; so if there is any collusion, it is between
      the issuers of the cross-certificates.<br>
      <br>
      On 04/14/2016 09:55 AM, Stephen Kent wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:570FA14E.4010109@bbn.com" type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      We've been having trouble getting the -05 version of the threat
      analysis posted, so<br>
      my message about the changes that have been incorporated is a bit
      premature.<br>
      <br>
      Here is the modified text:<o:p></o:p>
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        <!--StartFragment--> </p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US">3.3 Malicious,
          Colluding CAs<br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Section 3.2
          examined attacks in which a single CA might issue a bogus
          certificate. There is also the potential that two or more CAs
          might collude to issue a bogus certificate in a fashion
          designed to foil the remediation (but not detection)
          safeguards envisioned by CT. Their goal would be trick a
          CT-aware browser into accepting a bogus certificate because it
          was accompanied by a valid SCT, while evading certificate
          revocation status indications. This section explores such
          scenarios.<br>
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      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In this attack
          two CAs that do not share a common path to a trust anchor,
          collude to create a “doppelganger” (bogus) EE certificate. The
          attack need not be initiated by trust anchors; any subordinate
          pair of (not name-constrained) CAs can effect this attack
          without the knowledge of superiors CAs (which are presumed to
          be benign). The two CAs must have the same Subject name and
          the same public key for the attack. (RFC 5280 doe not
          explicitly preclude the creation of two CAs with the same
          name, so long as the parent CAs are distinct. Requirements for
          Subject name uniqueness apply individually to each CA but not
          across CA boundaries, as per Section 4.2.1.6. However, the
          Security Considerations section of RFC 5280 warns that name
          collisions could cause security problems.) <br>
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      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Because the two
          CAs have the same name and make use of the same key, each can
          issue the (bogus) doppelganger certificates. One of the CAs
          would log the certificate and acquire an SCT for it, while the
          other would not. <br>
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      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Because the bogus
          certificate is logged, it is subject to detection as such by a
          Monitor. Once the bogus certificate is detected it is
          anticipated that action will be taken to render it invalid.
          The bogus certificate itself might be revoked by the CA that
          issued and logged it, an action that masks the malicious
          intent of that CA. A browser vendor might add the bogus
          certificate to a blacklist maintained by the vendor, e.g.,
          because the CA failed to revoke the bogus certificate. <br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If the CA that
          logged the bogus certificate is suspected of being malicious,
          e.g., because it has a history of using bogus certificates,
          the certificate of that CA might itself be revoked. This
          revocation might be effected by the parent of that CA (which
          is not complicit), or by a browser vendor using a blacklist.
          Whether the proposed attack can achieve its goal depends on
          which revocation mechanism is employed, and which certificate
          or certificates are revoked.<br>
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      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US">3.3.1 Revocation
          of the Bogus Certificate<br>
        </span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If the bogus (EE)
          certificate is revoked by the CA that issued and logged it,
          browsers should treat that certificate as invalid. However, a
          browser checking a CRL or OCSP response might not match this
          revocation status data against the doppelganger issued by the
          second CA. This is because revocation status checking is
          performed in the context of a certification path (during path
          validation). The doppelgangers have different certification
          paths and thus the revocation status data for each might be
          acquired and managed independently. (RFC 5280 does not provide
          implementation guidance for management of revocation data. It
          is known that some relying party implementations maintain such
          information on a per-certificate path basis, but others might
          not.)<br>
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      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Even if the bogus
          certificates contain an AIA extension pointing to an OCSP
          server the attack might still succeed. (As noted in the
          Section 1, RFC 5280 does not mandate inclusion this extension,
          but its presence is required by CABF requirements.) <span
            style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>As noted in Section
          3.2.1.1.1, a malicious CA could send a “good” OCSP response to
          a targeted browser instance, even if other parties are
          provided with a “revoked” response. Also note that a TLS
          server can supply an OCSP response to a browser as part of the
          TLS handshake [RFC6961], if requested by the browser. A TLS
          server posing as the entity named in the bogus certificate
          could acquire a “good” OCSP response from the colluding CAs to
          effect the attack. Only if the browser relies upon a trusted,
          third-party OCSP responder, one not part of the collusion,
          would the attack fail.<br>
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      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The analysis
          above also applies to the use of CRLs to disseminate
          certificate revocation status data. The doppelganger
          certificate could contain a CRL distribution point extension
          instead of an AIA extension. In that case a site supplying
          CRLs for the colluding CAs could supply different CRLs to
          different requestors, in an attempt to hide the revocation
          status of the doppelganger from targeted browsers instances.
          This is analogous to a split-view attack effected by a CT log.
          However, as noted in Section 3.2.1.1 and 3.2.1.1.1, no element
          of CT is responsible for detecting inconsistent reporting of
          certificate revocation status data. (Monitoring in the CT
          context tracks log entries made by CAs or Subjects. Auditing
          is designed to detect misbehavior by logs, not by CAs per se.)
          <o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If the CA that
          logged the certificate does not revoke it, a browser vendor
          might enter the bogus certificate into a “blacklist”.
          Unfortunately, there are no IETF standards for such
          blacklists. Thus it is conceivable that the revocation status
          data also might be managed in a path-specific fashion. If that
          were true, then the attack could succeed. However, if a vendor
          maintains revocation status data in a path-independent
          fashion, then the attack will fail. For example, if revoked
          certificates are identified by CA name and serial number, or a
          hash of the certificate, this attack would fail.<br>
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      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US">3.2.2 Revocation
          of the Colluding CA Certificate <br>
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      <p class="MsoNormal"
        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br>
        <span
          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

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          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Courier;mso-bidi-font-family:&quot;Times

          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If the CA that
          logged the bogus certificate is viewed as acting maliciously,
          its parent might revoke that CA’s certificate. Even though the
          two colluding CAs have the same name and use the same public
          key, their certificates are distinct, e.g., they were issued
          by different parents and almost certainly have different
          certificate serial numbers. Thus revocation of the certificate
          of the CA that logged the bogus certificate does not affect
          the certificate of its colluding partner. In this case, the
          bogus EE certificate would be treated as valid when it appears
          in a certification path involving the second colluding CA.
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          New Roman&quot;; mso-fareast-language:EN-US">A vendor also
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          example, if the CA certificate blacklist entry is analogous to
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From nobody Thu Apr 28 21:38:41 2016
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Subject: [Trans] trans - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 96
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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Melinda Shore, a Chair of the trans working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Public Notary Transparency 
Area Name: Security Area
Session Requester: Melinda Shore

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  1 Hour
Number of Attendees: 50
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: dane curdle dnsop tls
 Second Priority: ipsecme saag



Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------

