From tsvwg-admin@ietf.org Tue Jun 6 13:02:37 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14732 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:02:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA07796; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:54:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA07768 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:54:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lombok-fi.lerc.nasa.gov ([139.88.112.33]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA14495 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from guns (guns.lerc.nasa.gov [139.88.87.35]) by lombok-fi.lerc.nasa.gov (NASA LeRC 8.9.1.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00218; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:54:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200006061654.MAA00218@lombok-fi.lerc.nasa.gov> To: tsvwg@ietf.org Cc: "Sally Floyd" , hari@lcs.mit.edu From: Mark Allman Reply-To: mallman@grc.nasa.gov Organization: Late Night Hackers, NASA Glenn, Cleveland, Ohio Song-of-the-Day: November Rain Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:54:10 -0400 Subject: [Tsvwg] Internet-Drafts@ietf.org: I-D ACTION:draft-allman-tcp-lossrec-00.txt Sender: tsvwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Transport Area Working Group X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org Sally Floyd, Hari Balakrishnan and I have put together an Internet-Draft that outlines a small set of changes to TCP that makes loss recovery more robust in the face of small window sizes (or a ton of ACK loss). The I-D announcement is attached. We'd appreciate hearing any comments you might have, as well as any references to related work that we may have unintentionally overlooked. Thanks, allman ------- Forwarded Message A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Enhancing TCP's Loss Recovery Using Early Duplicate Acknowledgment Response Author(s) : M. Allman, H. Balakrishnan, S. Floyd Filename : draft-allman-tcp-lossrec-00.txt Pages : 9 Date : 05-Jun-00 This document proposes two new TCP mechanisms that can be used to more effectively recover lost segments when a connection's congestion window is small, or when a large number of segments are lost in a single transmission window. The first of these mechanisms, 'Limited Transmit', calls for sending a new data segment in response to each of the first two duplicate acknowledgments that arrive at the sender. The second mechanism is to reduce, in certain special circumstances, the number of duplicate acknowledgments required to trigger a fast retransmission. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-allman-tcp-lossrec-00.txt ------- End of Forwarded Message _______________________________________________ tsvwg mailing list tsvwg@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg From tsvwg-admin@ietf.org Tue Jun 6 13:42:10 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15487 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA08401; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA08370 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:36:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from info.iet.unipi.it ([131.114.9.184]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15340 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:36:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from luigi@localhost) by info.iet.unipi.it (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA94338; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 19:35:44 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from luigi) From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <200006061735.TAA94338@info.iet.unipi.it> In-Reply-To: <200006061654.MAA00200@lombok-fi.lerc.nasa.gov> from Mark Allman at "Jun 6, 2000 12:54:06 pm" To: mallman@grc.nasa.gov Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 19:35:44 +0200 (CEST) CC: tsvwg@ietf.org, floyd@aciri.org, hari@lcs.mit.edu X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL61 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Tsvwg] Re: new internet draft Sender: tsvwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Transport Area Working Group X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [reply Cc to the tsvwg list as requested...] > Sally Floyd, Hari Balakrishnan and I have put together an > Internet-Draft that outlines a small set of changes to TCP that > makes loss recovery more robust in the face of small window sizes > (or a ton of ACK loss). The I-D announcement is attached. We > request that the discussion of this document take place on the > transport area WG mailing list (tsvwg@ietf.org). > > We'd appreciate hearing any comments you might have, as well as any > references to related work that we may have unintentionally > overlooked. Sec.3, "Reduction of the Retransmission Threshold" is very close to something i implemented back in 1995-1996 in FreeBSD together with SACK, see http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/sack.html http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/selack.ps but i suppose there have been many others doing the same thing. cheers luigi -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- Luigi RIZZO, luigi@iet.unipi.it . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ . Universita` di Pisa TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) Mobile +39-347-0373137 -----------------------------------+------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ tsvwg mailing list tsvwg@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg From tsvwg-admin@ietf.org Thu Jun 8 12:37:01 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA11429 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:37:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA18046; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:16:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA18014 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.29]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10694 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:16:47 -0400 (EDT) From: zainprov@swbell.net Received: from zainprov ([207.193.24.81]) by mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0FVU00D3EFA52U@mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net> for tsvwg@ietf.org; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:06:13 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 11:06:13 -0500 (CDT) Date-warning: Date header was inserted by mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net To: tsvwg@ietf.org Message-id: <0FVU00DNPFEB2U@mta5.rcsntx.swbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Subject: [Tsvwg] Shocking LOSE 10-100lbs. 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Thank you, Sherry Wilson _______________________________________________ tsvwg mailing list tsvwg@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg From tsvwg-admin@ietf.org Thu Jun 8 13:06:22 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA12171 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 13:06:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19306; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19275 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:46:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sabre.sjf.novell.com ([130.57.86.42]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA11665 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:46:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mahdavi@localhost) by sabre.sjf.novell.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA31632; Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:45:22 -0700 Reply-To: mahdavi@novell.com To: mallman@grc.nasa.gov Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org, "Sally Floyd" , hari@lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Internet-Drafts@ietf.org: I-D ACTION:draft-allman-tcp-lossrec-00.txt References: <200006061654.MAA00218@lombok-fi.lerc.nasa.gov> From: Jamshid Mahdavi Date: 08 Jun 2000 09:45:22 -0700 In-Reply-To: Mark Allman's message of "Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:54:10 -0400" Message-ID: Lines: 30 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Sender: tsvwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Transport Area Working Group X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org Some minor clarifications/additions: In section 2, it might be good to clarify what is the correct behavior in the case where the retransmission threshold is > 3. It says you should send N-1 Limited Transmits, but it also says max 2 in the example. If the threshold is N packets, you might send N-1 LTs at an effective window of cwnd-MSS. After reaching N dupacks, you then drop to cwnd/2. For N=3, this happens quite quickly. For larger N, there might be concern about prologing congestion. Some of the recent work on reordering has hinted at larger values for this threshold, which is why I suggest adding a small amount of text to clarify the standard and the possible concerns in this area. In section 3, it would be nice to see a short "SHOULD" or "MAY" at the beginning which specifies the algorithm. Like "In the case where duplicate ACKs are detected, and there is no new data to use for a Limited Transmit, and there are fewer than 4 segments outstanding, the sender MAY reduce the retransmit threshold to N-1, where N is the number of packets outstanding". That is kind of rough, but I think something like that would clarify exactly what the change to 2581 is in section 3. --Jamshid _______________________________________________ tsvwg mailing list tsvwg@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg From tsvwg-admin@ietf.org Mon Jun 12 02:02:28 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA23134 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 02:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA25632; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 01:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA25601 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 01:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elk.aciri.org (elk.aciri.org [192.150.187.21]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA19607 for ; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 01:54:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from elk.aciri.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elk.aciri.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA59877; Sun, 11 Jun 2000 22:54:26 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from floyd@elk.aciri.org) Message-Id: <200006120554.WAA59877@elk.aciri.org> To: mahdavi@novell.com cc: tsvwg@ietf.org, hari@lcs.mit.edu, mallman@grc.nasa.gov From: Sally Floyd Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Internet-Drafts@ietf.org: I-D ACTION:draft-allman-tcp-lossrec-00.txt Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 22:54:26 -0700 Sender: tsvwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Transport Area Working Group X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org Jamshid - >Some minor clarifications/additions: >In section 2, it might be good to clarify what is the correct behavior >in the case where the retransmission threshold is > 3. It says you >should send N-1 Limited Transmits, but it also says max 2 in the >example. Yep, we will clarify that. We are currently only proposing Limited Transmit for the first two dup acks. (When someone has a concrete proposal for a mechanism for an adaptive duplicate acknowledgement threshold to take to the IETF, they can deal with the question of extending Limited Transmit then, I would say. The current proposal is in the context of a duplicate acknowledgement threshold of at most three packets.) >In section 3, it would be nice to see a short "SHOULD" or "MAY" at the >beginning which specifies the algorithm. Will do. Thanks for the suggested sentence to add, it seems just right. - Sally _______________________________________________ tsvwg mailing list tsvwg@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg From tsvwg-admin@ietf.org Tue Jun 27 19:28:08 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA26391 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:28:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA05415; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA05384 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:16:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA26295; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:16:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ISI.EDU (jet.isi.edu [128.9.160.87]) by boreas.isi.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19048; Tue, 27 Jun 2000 16:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200006272316.QAA19048@boreas.isi.edu> To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: rfc-ed@ISI.EDU, tsvwg@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary=NextPart Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 16:16:02 -0700 From: RFC Editor Subject: [Tsvwg] RFC 2861 on TCP Congestion Window Validation Sender: tsvwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Transport Area Working Group X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org --NextPart A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 2861 Title: TCP Congestion Window Validation Author(s): M. Handley, J. Padhye, S. Floyd Status: Experimental Date: June 2000 Mailbox: mjh@aciri.org, padhye@aciri.org, floyd@aciri.org Pages: 11 Characters: 26993 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-handley-tcp-cwv-02.txt URL: ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2861.txt TCP's congestion window controls the number of packets a TCP flow may have in the network at any time. However, long periods when the sender is idle or application-limited can lead to the invalidation of the congestion window, in that the congestion window no longer reflects current information about the state of the network. This document describes a simple modification to TCP's congestion control algorithms to decay the congestion window cwnd after the transition from a sufficiently-long application-limited period, while using the slow-start threshold ssthresh to save information about the previous value of the congestion window. An invalid congestion window also results when the congestion window is increased (i.e., in TCP's slow-start or congestion avoidance phases) during application-limited periods, when the previous value of the congestion window might never have been fully utilized. We propose that the TCP sender should not increase the congestion window when the TCP sender has been application-limited (and therefore has not fully used the current congestion window). We have explored these algorithms both with simulations and with experiments from an implementation in FreeBSD. This document is a product of the Transport Area Working Group of the IETF. This memo defines an Experimental Protocol for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Discussion and suggestions for improvement are requested. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. Requests to be added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example: To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG Subject: getting rfcs help: ways_to_get_rfcs Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution.echo Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC Authors, for further information. Joyce K. Reynolds and Sandy Ginoza USC/Information Sciences Institute ... Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant Mail Reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the RFCs. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="RFC-INFO@RFC-EDITOR.ORG" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <000627161330.RFC@RFC-EDITOR.ORG> RETRIEVE: rfc DOC-ID: rfc2861 --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="rfc2861.txt"; site="ftp.isi.edu"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="in-notes" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <000627161330.RFC@RFC-EDITOR.ORG> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ tsvwg mailing list tsvwg@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg From tsvwg-admin@ietf.org Fri Jun 30 12:33:26 2000 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA21539 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:33:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from optimus.ietf.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA04534; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:25:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin [132.151.1.176]) by optimus.ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA04505 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.terastack.com (mailgate.terastack.com [195.173.195.66]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA21256 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:25:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from exchange.synaxia.com (unverified) by mail.terastack.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 17:18:20 +0100 Received: by EXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 30 Jun 2000 17:25:39 +0100 Message-Id: From: Chris Aston To: "'tsvwg@ietf.org'" Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 17:25:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Tsvwg] Status changes of "TCP Congestion Window Validation" Sender: tsvwg-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: tsvwg-admin@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Transport Area Working Group X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org Can anyone help me understand the reasons behind the status changes of the "TCP Congestion Window Validation" RFC? In the mail to tsvwg of 30 Oct 99 it talks about considering it as a "Proposed Standard". Then in April 2000 it was approved by the IESG for publication, but as an "Informational" RFC. Then just a few days ago it was published as RFC 2861, but as an "Experimental" RFC. I guess I've got two questions: 1) What was the reasoning behind (and implications of) the status changes in this RFC? So far I haven't been able to find any email discussion about it. 2) More generally, does this mean that it's not possible to assume anything about the final status of an internet draft ie do you really have to wait for it to be published by the RFC editor? Many thanks, Chris Aston Principal Development Engineer Synaxia Networks _______________________________________________ tsvwg mailing list tsvwg@ietf.org http://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg