From kim@aida-event.de  Thu Jan  1 10:54:56 2009
Return-Path: <kim@aida-event.de>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39913A6972
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu,  1 Jan 2009 10:54:56 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -12.69
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.69 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id IcIj8YZW4f6p
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu,  1 Jan 2009 10:54:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ppp-94-67-185-145.home.otenet.gr (ppp-94-67-185-145.home.otenet.gr [94.67.185.145])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E5B4A3A6801
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Thu,  1 Jan 2009 10:54:53 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Happy New Year 2009 Greeting Gifts
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090101185454.E5B4A3A6801@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Thu,  1 Jan 2009 10:54:53 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD>
<BODY><p align="center"><a href="http://metbig.com/">
<img border="0" src="http://images.lapmet.com/new.jpg"></a></p>
<div align="center">
  <table border="0" width="500" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" bgcolor="#ffffcc" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt">
    <tr>
      <td>
      <blockquote><p><br>
        Please do not reply to this email. To contact Max Volume, please
        visit <a href="http://hermid.com/">us</a></p>
        <hr><p><font size="1">This email message was sent to <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>. If
        you do not wish to receive further communications from Max Volume,
        click <a href="http://hermid.com/">
        here</a> to unsubscribe.
        </font></p><p><font size="1">If you've experience any difficulty
        in being removed from a Max Volume email list, click <a href="http://lapbig.com/">
        here</a> for personalized help.</font></p><hr>
        <p><font size="1">Copyright © 2008 Max Volume, Inc. All rights reserved.<br>
        65856 A Alaska, Luissvill, AT 43125</font></p></blockquote>
</td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From mamycat76@alicepro.fr  Thu Jan  1 13:05:19 2009
Return-Path: <mamycat76@alicepro.fr>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5014D3A6AC1
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu,  1 Jan 2009 13:05:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -16.39
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.39 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id nJxfPsiBoiPb
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu,  1 Jan 2009 13:05:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from p54929EF8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (p54929EF8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.146.158.248])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4E8363A6916
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Thu,  1 Jan 2009 13:05:16 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: May your Dreams Come True!
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090101210517.4E8363A6916@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Thu,  1 Jan 2009 13:05:16 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><p align="center"><a href="http://metdot.com/">
<img border="0" src="http://images.lapbig.com/new.jpg"></a></p>
<div align="center">
  <table border="0" width="500" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" bgcolor="#ffffcc" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt">
    <tr>
      <td>
      <blockquote><p><br>
        Please do not reply to this email. To contact Max Volume, please
        visit <a href="http://metbig.com/">us</a></p>
        <hr><p><font size="1">This email message was sent to <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>. If
        you do not wish to receive further communications from Max Volume,
        click <a href="http://metdot.com/">
        here</a> to unsubscribe.
        </font></p><p><font size="1">If you've experience any difficulty
        in being removed from a Max Volume email list, click <a href="http://hermid.com/">
        here</a> for personalized help.</font></p><hr>
        <p><font size="1">Copyright © 2008 Max Volume, Inc. All rights reserved.<br>
        65856 A Alaska, Luissvill, AT 43125</font></p></blockquote>
</td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From jhumni@aitlbd.net  Thu Jan  1 15:23:38 2009
Return-Path: <jhumni@aitlbd.net>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 277D13A67B3
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu,  1 Jan 2009 15:23:38 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -22.532
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-22.532 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033,
	RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id bWCNEwyJGZMd
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu,  1 Jan 2009 15:23:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: from amechad.net (unknown [190.176.39.157])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8198A3A6452
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Thu,  1 Jan 2009 15:23:34 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: When will we meet again?
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090101232335.8198A3A6452@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Thu,  1 Jan 2009 15:23:34 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><a href="http://advocacywrite.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://advocacywrite.com/adv3.jpg" border=0 alt="Having trouble viewing this email?
Click here to view as a webpage."></a></BODY></HTML>


From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Jan  2 10:41:20 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C04B63A682D;
	Fri,  2 Jan 2009 10:41:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A1053A684E
	for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Fri,  2 Jan 2009 06:01:26 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.299
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id 3H5OkRkvkvVH for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>;
	Fri,  2 Jan 2009 06:01:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lakerest.net (unknown [IPv6:2001:240:585:2:203:6dff:fe1a:4ddc])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F331D3A657C
	for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Fri,  2 Jan 2009 06:01:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.1.1.54] ([10.1.1.54]) (authenticated bits=0)
	by lakerest.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n02E18pa034057
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT);
	Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:01:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from rrs@lakerest.net)
Message-Id: <320CE8A9-7D00-41F6-8FAD-68EDBCED2B20@lakerest.net>
From: Randall Stewart <rrs@lakerest.net>
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= <Michael.Tuexen@lurchi.franken.de>
In-Reply-To: <285DDEEC-A174-402B-B1FF-C46D27881690@lurchi.franken.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:01:07 -0500
References: <378D168A-A299-4798-BF35-F97AD254BAE7@lurchi.franken.de>
	<49266BB0.8070908@sun.com>
	<52970.72.78.222.225.1227296961.squirrel@webmail.eecis.udel.edu>
	<492A7020.6020208@sun.com>
	<8A3B5057-3D34-415B-92C5-0EB0DE300131@lakerest.net>
	<492A928E.4070208@sun.com>
	<DB841DF3-C8DB-417A-A846-7F76CA1DFF57@lurchi.franken.de>
	<492ADE24.9080007@sun.com>
	<C37A1A87-07FF-4FC4-AD97-92B884B8AA25@lurchi.franken.de>
	<492B7A5D.3090107@sun.com> <20081125045620.GA14604@openss7.org>
	<178E7662-4128-4F6F-BFD6-3F51B7FC3B48@lurchi.franken.de>
	<492C1DC2.4060604@sun.com>
	<285DDEEC-A174-402B-B1FF-C46D27881690@lurchi.franken.de>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3)
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:41:19 -0800
Cc: tsvwg <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] SCTP support for Solaris
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org

Sorry for seeing this so late :-(


On Nov 25, 2008, at 3:13 PM, Michael T=FCxen wrote:

>>
> So the idea is to be able to be able to provide a some cmghdr
> structure, each one for
> - The PPID
> - The stream id
> - Sending ordered/unordered
> - the PR-SCTP policy
> - the PR-SCTP value
> - the SCTP-AUTH keyid
> - the flags (from the sndrcv info flags)
> - the context
> - and a couple more that I forgot...
>
> The experience I had is that people avoid using the the
> cmghdr stuff... That is why we added sctp_sendmsg() which
> was just a wrapper added to handle the cmghdr stuff..


I tend to agree with you here Michael. I have taught
quite a few classes on the SCTP socket API.. where you
get blood curdling screams, groans and moans is when you
try to get folks to use the cmsg stuff. Its real ugly
and quite awkward to use. Most folks just plain do not
want to use it.

No matter what we do, I think having something simple
to use is far better. Even if that means wrapping a library
call to work with the cmsg headers (like lk-sctp does).

R

------------------------------
Randall Stewart
803-317-4952 (cell)
803-345-0391(direct)



From jgonzalez@aiu.edu  Fri Jan  2 19:08:12 2009
Return-Path: <jgonzalez@aiu.edu>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FCA33A6810
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Fri,  2 Jan 2009 19:08:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -35.623
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-35.623 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742,
	SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id 1P9QIcG+t2sS
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Fri,  2 Jan 2009 19:08:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ald-mpls.com (unknown [189.25.44.250])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A204D3A68D1
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Fri,  2 Jan 2009 19:08:09 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: We need you here, now!
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090103030810.A204D3A68D1@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Fri,  2 Jan 2009 19:08:09 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1250">
</HEAD>
<BODY><a href="http://finishspeak.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://finishspeak.com/adv3.jpg" border=0 alt="Having trouble viewing this email?
Click here to view as a webpage."></a></BODY></HTML>


From kim@ak.net  Sat Jan  3 06:21:14 2009
Return-Path: <kim@ak.net>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B164D3A68AA
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat,  3 Jan 2009 06:21:14 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -13.013
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.013 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id HfTNcu7qKSk9
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sat,  3 Jan 2009 06:21:14 -0800 (PST)
Received: from acctcorp.com (unknown [190.3.124.38])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8B6613A67F6
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sat,  3 Jan 2009 06:21:09 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Enjoy your life full of stylish things
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090103142110.8B6613A67F6@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sat,  3 Jan 2009 06:21:09 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><b><p align="center"><a href="http://merewane.com/">
<img border="0" src="http://images.merewane.com/1.jpg" alt="Choose from a huge range of splendid accessories sold at quite reasonable price!"></a></p>
<div align="center">
  <table border="0" width="500" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" bgcolor="#ffffff" style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt">
    <tr>
      <td>
      <blockquote><p><br>
        Please do not reply to this email. To contact Armstrong Shank Advertising, please
        visit <a href="http://merepick.com/">us</a></p>
        <hr><p><font size="1">This email message was sent to <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>. If
        you do not wish to receive further communications from Armstrong Shank Advertising,
        click <a href="http://meredome.com/">
        here</a> to unsubscribe.
        </font></p><p><font size="1">If you've experience any difficulty
        in being removed from a Armstrong Shank Advertising email list, click <a href="http://pickwane.com/">
        here</a> for personalized help.</font></p><hr>
        <p><font size="1">Copyright © 2008 Armstrong Shank Advertising, Inc. All rights reserved.<br>
        7450 S Seneca, Haysville, KS 67060</font></p></blockquote>
</td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From kouxgx@3ming.net  Sat Jan  3 14:23:25 2009
Return-Path: <kouxgx@3ming.net>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C94A13A67AD
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat,  3 Jan 2009 14:23:25 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.344
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.344 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888,
	FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129,
	HELO_EQ_TELESP=1.245, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742,
	SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, SARE_RECV_SPAM_DOMN02=1.666,
	TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083,
	URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id IsP79XkerqCa
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sat,  3 Jan 2009 14:23:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 189-68-187-227.dsl.telesp.net.br (189-68-187-227.dsl.telesp.net.br [189.68.187.227])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id EF6253A63EC
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sat,  3 Jan 2009 14:23:23 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: We need your presence
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090103222323.EF6253A63EC@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sat,  3 Jan 2009 14:23:23 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1250">
</HEAD>
<BODY><a href="http://harmonyamong.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://harmonyamong.com/adv3.jpg" border=0 alt="Having trouble viewing this email?
Click here to view as a webpage."></a></BODY></HTML>


From linn.valke@ajs-isc.com  Sun Jan  4 01:00:43 2009
Return-Path: <linn.valke@ajs-isc.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B563A681A
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sun,  4 Jan 2009 01:00:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -14.449
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id I-XOsXz2cu5f
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sun,  4 Jan 2009 01:00:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from dslb-088-068-111-029.pools.arcor-ip.net (dslb-084-059-133-247.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.59.133.247])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 94A883A68AD
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sun,  4 Jan 2009 01:00:40 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: I had an accident, come now!
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090104090041.94A883A68AD@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sun,  4 Jan 2009 01:00:40 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><a href="http://generalfar.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://generalfar.com/adv3.jpg" border=0 alt="Having trouble viewing this email?
Click here to view as a webpage."></a></BODY></HTML>


From ketaset@3mail.com  Sun Jan  4 01:51:55 2009
Return-Path: <ketaset@3mail.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDE93A6899
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sun,  4 Jan 2009 01:51:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -26.392
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-26.392 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_80=2, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_RU=0.595, HOST_EQ_RU=0.875,
	HTML_EXTRA_CLOSE=2.809, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033,
	RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id gfy82xnyD58s
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sun,  4 Jan 2009 01:51:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 230.87-54-92.telenet.ru (230.87-54-92.telenet.ru [92.54.87.230])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 23E303A6808
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sun,  4 Jan 2009 01:51:52 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Returned mail: Quota exceeded
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090104095153.23E303A6808@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sun,  4 Jan 2009 01:51:52 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD>
<BODY><tr><td>
<div align=center> <a href="http://sidedistant.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://sidedistant.com/adv1.jpg" border=0 alt="Click Here!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal><strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured 
Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. This will not unsubscribe 
you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN 
Feature Offers. This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be 
responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.<br><br>
C2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://sidedistant.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://sidedistant.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | 
<a href="http://sidedistant.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
          Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052
</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></div></div></BODY></HTML>


From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Sun Jan  4 06:03:56 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE4A628C0EF;
	Sun,  4 Jan 2009 06:03:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B52AE28C0EF
	for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Sun,  4 Jan 2009 06:03:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id P7h1T+HLU-2j for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sun,  4 Jan 2009 06:03:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lakerest.net (unknown [IPv6:2001:240:585:2:203:6dff:fe1a:4ddc])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 591BB28C0E1
	for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Sun,  4 Jan 2009 06:03:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.1.1.54] ([10.1.1.54]) (authenticated bits=0)
	by lakerest.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n04E3a60062493
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT);
	Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:03:37 -0500 (EST)
	(envelope-from randall@lakerest.net)
Message-Id: <BC82CF02-CDB0-4558-BB25-B07AAD43A68B@lakerest.net>
From: Randy Stewart <randall@lakerest.net>
To: Tim Stevens <tim.stevens@intec.ugent.be>
In-Reply-To: <49269D37.5020609@intec.ugent.be>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:03:36 -0500
References: <4926859A.5040107@intec.ugent.be>
	<53812149-8995-4929-A85F-5FF596C50FA5@lakerest.net>
	<49269D37.5020609@intec.ugent.be>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3)
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] Multihoming during SCTP 4-way handshake?
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org

Just saw this... sorry for the delay..

On Nov 21, 2008, at 6:36 AM, Tim Stevens wrote:

> Dear Randy,
>
> Thanks alot for your help!
>
> Considering scenario 2, see my comments below.
>
>>> Scenario 2:
>>> Consider that both hosts support RFC5061. Is the following  
>>> sequence of
>>> events correct?
>>> 1) C1 sends INIT to S1
>>> 2) S1 receives the request, but prefers to use interface S2
>>> 3) S2 sends INIT ACK + ADDRESS PARAMETERS S2,S1 + SET PRIMARY  
>>> ADDRESS
>>> S2 to C1
>>> 4) interface S1 becomes unreachable (due to some network event)
>>> 5) C1 sends COOKIE ECHO + HEARTBEAT to S2 (because S2 is  
>>> UNCONFIRMED?)
>>> 6) S2 sends COOKIE ACK + HEARTBEAT ACK to C1
>>> 7) connection ESTABLISHED
>>
>> When S2 sends the INIT it is not legal for it to bundle a
>> Set-Primary in it. The INIT and INIT-ACK chunks are specifically
>> prohibited from having any other chunks bundled with them.
>>
>> S2 could send the INIT-ACK (remember it has no state either)... and
>> when the cookie arrives it could send
>>
>>
>> COOKIE-ACK, SET-PRIMARY.
>>
>
> I think I must have misunderstood RFC5061 in this case... The last  
> paragraph in Section 4.2.4 reads:
>   "Valid Chunk Appearance
>
>   The Set Primary IP Address parameter may appear in the ASCONF, the
>   INIT, or the INIT-ACK Chunk Type.  The inclusion of this parameter  
> in
>   the INIT or INIT-ACK can be used to indicate an initial preference  
> of
>   primary address."
>
> How should I interpret this paragraph?

Sorry, my bad, I was thinking in terms of bundling an ASCONF. Of course
the sender of an INIT or INIT-ACK can validly include a SET-PRIMARY  
parameter
in the INIT/INIT-ACK.

But as it states in RFC5061 the set-primary is a "suggestion", the
receiver of a set primary is NEVER under any obligation to do it. They
should, at least try, if they can. However when a set-primary is done
on an UNCONFIRMED address then the receiver MUST NOT honor it since
it violates a MUST NOT in the 4960 base spec... i.e. you cannot
send data to a unconfirmed address.

I suppose if the implementation wanted, it could hold a "flag" if you  
will, on the
destination and AFTER it is confirmed change that to be the primary..  
but this of
course is an implementation detail.

R


>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Tim
>

-----
Randall Stewart
randall@lakerest.net






From lizrogers@alfresco-holidays.com  Sun Jan  4 09:18:54 2009
Return-Path: <lizrogers@alfresco-holidays.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45CB73A6A7E
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sun,  4 Jan 2009 09:18:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -16.248
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_80=2, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955,
	HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_TELESP=1.245, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295,
	HTML_EXTRA_CLOSE=2.809, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619,
	RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_RECV_SPAM_DOMN02=1.666, SARE_UNI=0.591,
	TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id SytLH0PdwuU3
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sun,  4 Jan 2009 09:18:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 201-92-13-25.dsl.telesp.net.br (201-92-13-25.dsl.telesp.net.br [201.92.13.25])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 377D53A687C
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sun,  4 Jan 2009 09:18:51 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090104171852.377D53A687C@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sun,  4 Jan 2009 09:18:51 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><tr><td>
<div align=center> <a href="http://sidedistant.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://sidedistant.com/adv1.jpg" border=0 alt="Click Here!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal><strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured 
Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. This will not unsubscribe 
you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN 
Feature Offers. This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be 
responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.<br><br>
C2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://sidedistant.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://sidedistant.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | 
<a href="http://sidedistant.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
          Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052
</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></div></div></BODY></HTML>


From maejima-k@ambia.co.jp  Sun Jan  4 12:01:26 2009
Return-Path: <maejima-k@ambia.co.jp>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DEF63A6972
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sun,  4 Jan 2009 12:01:26 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -48.164
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-48.164 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HELO_EQ_NE_JP=1.244,
	HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, HOST_EQ_NE_JP=2.599, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033,
	SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id TdjPKVcfFO2P
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sun,  4 Jan 2009 12:01:26 -0800 (PST)
Received: from p4057-ipbf902hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp (p4057-ipbf902hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp [58.91.31.57])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C5E473A689C
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sun,  4 Jan 2009 12:01:22 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Is your cell phone always busy?
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090104200123.C5E473A689C@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sun,  4 Jan 2009 12:01:22 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
</HEAD>
<BODY><a href="http://poseprogress.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://poseprogress.com/adv3.jpg" border=0 alt="Having trouble viewing this email?
Click here to view as a webpage."></a></BODY></HTML>


From mcrow@alum.mit.edu  Sun Jan  4 13:16:37 2009
Return-Path: <mcrow@alum.mit.edu>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D6363A6A7E
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sun,  4 Jan 2009 13:16:37 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -17.896
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_60=1, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119,
	HOST_EQ_USERONOCOM=1.444, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067,
	RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666,
	TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id tYmCz6+UDipy
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sun,  4 Jan 2009 13:16:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 84.122.46.68.dyn.user.ono.com (84.122.46.68.dyn.user.ono.com [84.122.46.68])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0BEA23A6A0F
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sun,  4 Jan 2009 13:16:34 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Delivery Status Notification
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090104211635.0BEA23A6A0F@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sun,  4 Jan 2009 13:16:34 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
</HEAD>
<BODY><a href="http://majornext.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://majornext.com/osdfa1.jpg" border=0 alt="Having trouble viewing this email? Click 
here to view as a webpage."></a></BODY></HTML>


From msulzend@abby-cheat.com  Sun Jan  4 13:23:18 2009
Return-Path: <msulzend@abby-cheat.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68A023A68F6
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sun,  4 Jan 2009 13:23:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -25.847
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-25.847 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_60=1, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765,
	FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619,
	RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742,
	SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id xZ3vR1YsJXWg
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sun,  4 Jan 2009 13:23:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 84.122.46.68.dyn.user.ono.com (84.122.46.68.dyn.user.ono.com [84.122.46.68])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DB6AE3A682D
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sun,  4 Jan 2009 13:23:14 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090104212316.DB6AE3A682D@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sun,  4 Jan 2009 13:23:14 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
</HEAD>
<BODY><a href="http://couragenorth.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://couragenorth.com/osdfa1.jpg" border=0 alt="Having trouble viewing this email? Click 
here to view as a webpage."></a></BODY></HTML>


From owan@aiolos.com  Mon Jan  5 09:22:21 2009
Return-Path: <owan@aiolos.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A94193A686B
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Mon,  5 Jan 2009 09:22:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -20.774
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-20.774 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083,
	URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id BEtVwn-60npW
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Mon,  5 Jan 2009 09:22:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from afo.net (unknown [189.107.195.130])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E0C143A677E
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Mon,  5 Jan 2009 09:22:18 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order 55204
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 080623-0, 23/06/2008), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Message-Id: <20090105172219.E0C143A677E@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Mon,  5 Jan 2009 09:22:18 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://segmentwing.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://segmentwing.com/uye5.jpg" border=0 alt="Click Here!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>©2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://segmentwing.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://segmentwing.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://segmentwing.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 20458</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From mavoice@ama-assn.org  Mon Jan  5 11:06:43 2009
Return-Path: <mavoice@ama-assn.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AF383A69F6
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Mon,  5 Jan 2009 11:06:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -35.277
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-35.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955,
	HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_EXTRA_CLOSE=2.809, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id 9FIYeWLbnNj7
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Mon,  5 Jan 2009 11:06:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from bhe201062232217.res-com.wayinternet.com.br (bhe201062232217.res-com.wayinternet.com.br [201.62.232.217])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C981E3A6937
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Mon,  5 Jan 2009 11:06:40 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: failure notice
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090105190640.C981E3A6937@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Mon,  5 Jan 2009 11:06:40 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1250">
</HEAD>
<BODY><tr><td>
<div align=center> <a href="http://responsibilityview.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://responsibilityview.com/adv1.jpg" border=0 alt="Click Here!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal><strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured 
Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. This will not unsubscribe 
you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN 
Feature Offers. This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be 
responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.<br><br>
C2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://responsibilityview.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://responsibilityview.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | 
<a href="http://responsibilityview.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
          Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052
</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></div></div></BODY></HTML>


From jedavi@accentdisplay.com  Mon Jan  5 17:25:45 2009
Return-Path: <jedavi@accentdisplay.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F08BD3A68DA
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Mon,  5 Jan 2009 17:25:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.847
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.847 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id 9KV43T6eMPre
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Mon,  5 Jan 2009 17:25:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ppp-124-120-9-19.revip2.asianet.co.th (ppp-124-120-0-25.revip2.asianet.co.th [124.120.0.25])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B98A43A65A5
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Mon,  5 Jan 2009 17:25:43 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: We need you here, now!
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090106012543.B98A43A65A5@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Mon,  5 Jan 2009 17:25:43 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><a href="http://generalfar.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://generalfar.com/adv3.jpg" border=0 alt="Having trouble viewing this email?
Click here to view as a webpage."></a></BODY></HTML>


From jhenry@3cis.biz  Mon Jan  5 21:36:21 2009
Return-Path: <jhenry@3cis.biz>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB86928C106
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Mon,  5 Jan 2009 21:36:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -41.915
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-41.915 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id Zkm4433BVkzk
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Mon,  5 Jan 2009 21:36:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ameripath.com (unknown [92.113.84.88])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id ED70528C10A
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Mon,  5 Jan 2009 21:36:10 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order 61802
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090106053611.ED70528C10A@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Mon,  5 Jan 2009 21:36:10 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://compassionmight.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://compassionmight.com/uye5.jpg" border=0 alt="Click Go To Site!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>©2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://compassionmight.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://compassionmight.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://compassionmight.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 28066</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From kitamura@580b.com.tw  Tue Jan  6 10:24:00 2009
Return-Path: <kitamura@580b.com.tw>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F243C3A690D
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Tue,  6 Jan 2009 10:24:00 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -16.922
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.922 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033,
	RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id QNDT+06FvgRu
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Tue,  6 Jan 2009 10:24:00 -0800 (PST)
Received: from amoplans.com (unknown [201.37.12.158])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3A3103A6883
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Tue,  6 Jan 2009 10:23:58 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Order status 54069
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 090106-0, 06/01/2009), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Message-Id: <20090106182359.3A3103A6883@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Tue,  6 Jan 2009 10:23:58 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://dancesee.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://dancesee.com/uye5.jpg" border=0 alt="Click Go To Site!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>©2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://dancesee.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://dancesee.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://dancesee.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 89265</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From moggf@123arabia.com  Tue Jan  6 12:51:23 2009
Return-Path: <moggf@123arabia.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4ABD3A6A5C
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Tue,  6 Jan 2009 12:51:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -32.89
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-32.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id V-8Uvw9xEEh5
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Tue,  6 Jan 2009 12:51:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from athedsl-431208.home.otenet.gr (athedsl-431208.home.otenet.gr [79.131.236.102])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9ED193A69C2
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Tue,  6 Jan 2009 12:51:20 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Order status 56712
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090106205121.9ED193A69C2@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Tue,  6 Jan 2009 12:51:20 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://reflectionsilent.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://reflectionsilent.com/uye5.jpg" border=0 alt="Click Go To Site!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>©2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://reflectionsilent.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://reflectionsilent.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://reflectionsilent.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 88821</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From mbxpvsl@amuse-mc.com  Tue Jan  6 19:49:58 2009
Return-Path: <mbxpvsl@amuse-mc.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2FF63A683E
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Tue,  6 Jan 2009 19:49:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.017
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.017 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_80=2, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482,
	FH_HELO_EQ_CHARTER=2.175, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888,
	FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HOST_EQ_CHARTER=1.295, HOST_EQ_DHCP=1.295,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id RcClfFoRGQXO
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Tue,  6 Jan 2009 19:49:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 121-138-22-190.adsl.terra.cl (121-138-22-190.adsl.terra.cl [190.22.138.121])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 626713A692F
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Tue,  6 Jan 2009 19:49:56 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: It's cold, don't keep me waiting
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090107034957.626713A692F@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Tue,  6 Jan 2009 19:49:56 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
</HEAD>
<BODY><a href="http://catchcentury.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://catchcentury.com/adv3.jpg" border=0 alt="Having trouble viewing this email?
Click here to view as a webpage."></a></BODY></HTML>


From j.bermudez@airpma.net  Wed Jan  7 06:15:36 2009
Return-Path: <j.bermudez@airpma.net>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F8328C14F
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Wed,  7 Jan 2009 06:15:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -30.535
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-30.535 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295,
	HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id wQz2sKl2YTZa
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Wed,  7 Jan 2009 06:15:33 -0800 (PST)
Received: from cpc3-derb8-0-0-cust161.lei3.cable.ntl.com (cpc3-derb8-0-0-cust161.lei3.cable.ntl.com [82.17.80.162])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 97A3B28C147
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Wed,  7 Jan 2009 06:15:31 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order 02265
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090107141532.97A3B28C147@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Wed,  7 Jan 2009 06:15:31 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://mouthwent.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://mouthwent.com/uye5.jpg" border=0 alt="Click Go To Site!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>©2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://mouthwent.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://mouthwent.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://mouthwent.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 84076</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From jjbndpv@amico-jp.com  Wed Jan  7 06:36:54 2009
Return-Path: <jjbndpv@amico-jp.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA41F3A680F
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Wed,  7 Jan 2009 06:36:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 1.208
X-Spam-Level: *
X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.208 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144,
	HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067,
	RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666,
	TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083,
	URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id Aqr+pGTFNO33
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Wed,  7 Jan 2009 06:36:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 12.120.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es (12.121.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es [87.221.121.12])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 53D223A6805
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Wed,  7 Jan 2009 06:36:51 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Where are you, man?
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090107143652.53D223A6805@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Wed,  7 Jan 2009 06:36:51 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><a href="http://sentenceselect.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://sentenceselect.com/adv3.jpg" border=0 alt="Having trouble viewing this email?
Click here to view as a webpage."></a></BODY></HTML>


From jxjw@aisidi.com.cn  Wed Jan  7 06:43:22 2009
Return-Path: <jxjw@aisidi.com.cn>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B20F73A694D
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Wed,  7 Jan 2009 06:43:22 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.503
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_ALMOST_IP=5.417, FH_HOST_ALMOST_IP=1.889,
	FH_HOST_EQ_DYNAMICIP=2.177, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144,
	HTML_EXTRA_CLOSE=2.809, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877,
	RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id b9CGTAX2GjHA
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Wed,  7 Jan 2009 06:43:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 242.Red-83-60-197.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net (242.Red-83-60-197.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net [83.60.197.242])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B7F703A6921
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Wed,  7 Jan 2009 06:43:18 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Undeliverable Mail
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090107144320.B7F703A6921@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Wed,  7 Jan 2009 06:43:18 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><tr><td>
<div align=center> <a href="http://shinesame.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://shinesame.com/adv1.jpg" border=0 alt="Click Here!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal><strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured 
Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. This will not unsubscribe 
you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN 
Feature Offers. This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be 
responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.<br><br>
C2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://shinesame.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://shinesame.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | 
<a href="http://shinesame.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
          Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052
</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></div></div></BODY></HTML>


From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Jan  7 07:24:01 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B934A3A69B6;
	Wed,  7 Jan 2009 07:24:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 530EA3A69B6
	for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Wed,  7 Jan 2009 07:24:00 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -106.599
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id EE6q0dCQuomz for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>;
	Wed,  7 Jan 2009 07:23:59 -0800 (PST)
Received: from g1t0026.austin.hp.com (g1t0026.austin.hp.com [15.216.28.33])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C4F3A6877
	for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Wed,  7 Jan 2009 07:23:59 -0800 (PST)
Received: from g5t0012.atlanta.hp.com (g5t0012.atlanta.hp.com [15.192.0.49])
	(using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by g1t0026.austin.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 373DBC06B;
	Wed,  7 Jan 2009 15:23:45 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from [192.168.98.100] (pool-71-255-130-196.cncdnh.east.verizon.net
	[71.255.130.196])
	by g5t0012.atlanta.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8C70110026;
	Wed,  7 Jan 2009 15:23:44 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <4964C8FF.9080103@hp.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:23:43 -0500
From: Vlad Yasevich <vladislav.yasevich@hp.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070604)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Randall Stewart <rrs@lakerest.net>
References: <378D168A-A299-4798-BF35-F97AD254BAE7@lurchi.franken.de>	<49266BB0.8070908@sun.com>	<52970.72.78.222.225.1227296961.squirrel@webmail.eecis.udel.edu>	<492A7020.6020208@sun.com>	<8A3B5057-3D34-415B-92C5-0EB0DE300131@lakerest.net>	<492A928E.4070208@sun.com>	<DB841DF3-C8DB-417A-A846-7F76CA1DFF57@lurchi.franken.de>	<492ADE24.9080007@sun.com>	<C37A1A87-07FF-4FC4-AD97-92B884B8AA25@lurchi.franken.de>	<492B7A5D.3090107@sun.com>
	<20081125045620.GA14604@openss7.org>	<178E7662-4128-4F6F-BFD6-3F51B7FC3B48@lurchi.franken.de>	<492C1DC2.4060604@sun.com>	<285DDEEC-A174-402B-B1FF-C46D27881690@lurchi.franken.de>
	<320CE8A9-7D00-41F6-8FAD-68EDBCED2B20@lakerest.net>
In-Reply-To: <320CE8A9-7D00-41F6-8FAD-68EDBCED2B20@lakerest.net>
X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Michael_T=FCxen?= <Michael.Tuexen@lurchi.franken.de>,
	tsvwg <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] SCTP support for Solaris
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org

Randall Stewart wrote:
> Sorry for seeing this so late :-(
> 
> 
> On Nov 25, 2008, at 3:13 PM, Michael Tüxen wrote:
> 
>>>
>> So the idea is to be able to be able to provide a some cmghdr
>> structure, each one for
>> - The PPID
>> - The stream id
>> - Sending ordered/unordered
>> - the PR-SCTP policy
>> - the PR-SCTP value
>> - the SCTP-AUTH keyid
>> - the flags (from the sndrcv info flags)
>> - the context
>> - and a couple more that I forgot...
>>
>> The experience I had is that people avoid using the the
>> cmghdr stuff... That is why we added sctp_sendmsg() which
>> was just a wrapper added to handle the cmghdr stuff..
> 
> 
> I tend to agree with you here Michael. I have taught
> quite a few classes on the SCTP socket API.. where you
> get blood curdling screams, groans and moans is when you
> try to get folks to use the cmsg stuff. Its real ugly
> and quite awkward to use. Most folks just plain do not
> want to use it.
> 
> No matter what we do, I think having something simple
> to use is far better. Even if that means wrapping a library
> call to work with the cmsg headers (like lk-sctp does).
> 
> R
> 

Then we'll just have to state that sctp_sendmsg() can not be
used when any new extension that would require additional parameters
to be passed down since it can't really handle them without
an API change.

One such extension that recently came up during implementation
is the new partial reliability policy stuff.  Currently, sctp_sendmsg
can take a pr_value, allowing it to specify the value as applied to
a given policy, but there is no documented way to specify the policy.

Thus one could preserve the old behavior of defaulting to timeout policy,
or one could hack something in an non-interoperable manner using flags or
something else.

As it stands right now, sctp_sendmsg() is underspecified wrt to PR policy.

-vlad


From kellyvo@almozoon.com  Wed Jan  7 08:52:46 2009
Return-Path: <kellyvo@almozoon.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12F8B3A6A78
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Wed,  7 Jan 2009 08:52:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -35.568
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-35.568 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id nsbkxCf7Ur9G
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Wed,  7 Jan 2009 08:52:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ADSL-TPLUS-15-233.intnet.mu (ADSL-TPLUS-15-212.intnet.mu [202.123.15.212])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D2EE23A67E9
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Wed,  7 Jan 2009 08:52:40 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Message 77524
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090107165242.D2EE23A67E9@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Wed,  7 Jan 2009 08:52:40 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://operateslave.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://operateslave.com/uye5.jpg" border=0 alt="Click Go To Site!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>©2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://operateslave.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://operateslave.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://operateslave.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 06775</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From oscar.solano@aeromar.co.cr  Wed Jan  7 19:26:54 2009
Return-Path: <oscar.solano@aeromar.co.cr>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E9603A69CC
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Wed,  7 Jan 2009 19:26:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -38.26
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-38.26 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[AWL=-4.471, BAYES_60=1, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HTML_EXTRA_CLOSE=2.809, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id MnG9-tjJ+iKy
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Wed,  7 Jan 2009 19:26:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: from aluform.be (unknown [201.29.194.84])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6AB9D3A6993
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Wed,  7 Jan 2009 19:26:50 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Non delivery report: 5.9.4 (Spam SLS/RBL)
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090108032652.6AB9D3A6993@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Wed,  7 Jan 2009 19:26:50 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
</HEAD>
<BODY><tr><td>
<div align=center> <a href="http://heavybring.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://heavybring.com/adv1.jpg" border=0 alt="Click Here!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal><strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured 
Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. This will not unsubscribe 
you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN 
Feature Offers. This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be 
responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.<br><br>
C2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://heavybring.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://heavybring.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | 
<a href="http://heavybring.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
          Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052
</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></div></div></BODY></HTML>


From m.mazzarellol@amb.com.br  Thu Jan  8 03:42:57 2009
Return-Path: <m.mazzarellol@amb.com.br>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9EE23A6A4A
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu,  8 Jan 2009 03:42:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -27.081
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-27.081 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id xqxY01smXvns
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu,  8 Jan 2009 03:42:57 -0800 (PST)
Received: from gw-ham.riensch.de (gw-ham.riensch.de [213.128.153.17])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C34113A6A07
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Thu,  8 Jan 2009 03:42:54 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Message 28665
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090108114254.C34113A6A07@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Thu,  8 Jan 2009 03:42:54 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1250">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://motivationnine.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://motivationnine.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>©2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://motivationnine.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://motivationnine.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://motivationnine.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 31603</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From myachina@absolutecollection.com  Thu Jan  8 08:04:05 2009
Return-Path: <myachina@absolutecollection.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB8163A6AEB
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu,  8 Jan 2009 08:04:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -12.113
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.113 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_95=3, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_EXTRA_CLOSE=2.809,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id yYka62IrOVpB
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu,  8 Jan 2009 08:04:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 4dcsi.com (unknown [190.189.229.125])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9F3443A68E0
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Thu,  8 Jan 2009 08:04:03 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090108160403.9F3443A68E0@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Thu,  8 Jan 2009 08:04:03 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD>
<BODY><tr><td>
<div align=center> <a href="http://horseself.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://horseself.com/adv1.jpg" border=0 alt="Click Here!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal><strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured 
Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. This will not unsubscribe 
you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN 
Feature Offers. This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be 
responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.<br><br>
C2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://horseself.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://horseself.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | 
<a href="http://horseself.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
          Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052
</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></div></div></BODY></HTML>


From mailman@amico.on.ca  Thu Jan  8 10:20:34 2009
Return-Path: <mailman@amico.on.ca>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BB693A6936
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu,  8 Jan 2009 10:20:34 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -8.762
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.762 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id M-W3Fh2nwcJJ
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu,  8 Jan 2009 10:20:33 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ppp-58-8-209-135.revip2.asianet.co.th (ppp-58-8-8-67.revip2.asianet.co.th [58.8.8.67])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DB71E3A68F0
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Thu,  8 Jan 2009 10:20:31 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order 35049
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090108182031.DB71E3A68F0@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Thu,  8 Jan 2009 10:20:31 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://motivationnine.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://motivationnine.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>©2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://motivationnine.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://motivationnine.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://motivationnine.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 37364</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From tsw61169@yahoo.com  Thu Jan  8 11:47:54 2009
Return-Path: <tsw61169@yahoo.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 285733A6962
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu,  8 Jan 2009 11:47:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -32.259
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-32.259 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, GB_H_CANADIAN=0.5,
	GB_H_PHARMACY=1, GB_PHARMACY=1, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553,
	HOST_EQ_RU=0.875, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877,
	RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SBL=20, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id VKE9BXuCycbd
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu,  8 Jan 2009 11:47:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mta.email.webmd.com (adsl-89-134-18-63.monradsl.monornet.hu [89.134.18.63])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E18D43A67B6
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Thu,  8 Jan 2009 11:47:52 -0800 (PST)
Content-Return: allowed
X-Mailer: CME-V6.5.4.3; MSN
Message-Id: <20090108094740.3413.qmail@mta.email.webmd.com>
From: "Doctor Romeo" <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
To: tsvwg-archive@ietf.org
Subject: RE: (Canadian Pharmacy Message) Wish to add more fire ino your bedroom life?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Date: Thu,  8 Jan 2009 11:47:52 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1">
</HEAD>
<BODY><div align=center><a href="http://pj.idlisi.cn"><img src="http://mediapix.ru/pics/014c649d3c078b093d81eb0b3f3f7d18.jpg"></a></div></a></BODY></HTML>



From johnhdd@alppilux.fi  Thu Jan  8 16:02:36 2009
Return-Path: <johnhdd@alppilux.fi>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ABD03A69CB
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu,  8 Jan 2009 16:02:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.885
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.885 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_CPE=0.5,
	HOST_EQ_CPE=0.979, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id BFJyx1eaGF0v
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu,  8 Jan 2009 16:02:35 -0800 (PST)
Received: from cpe-72-227-70-200.maine.res.rr.com (cpe-72-227-70-200.maine.res.rr.com [72.227.70.200])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9E81D3A69A2
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Thu,  8 Jan 2009 16:02:33 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order 33811
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090109000234.9E81D3A69A2@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Thu,  8 Jan 2009 16:02:33 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://asrealization.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://asrealization.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>©2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://asrealization.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://asrealization.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://asrealization.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 20913</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From nolfe20663@amerireach.com  Fri Jan  9 00:41:15 2009
Return-Path: <nolfe20663@amerireach.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4EC63A67D8
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Fri,  9 Jan 2009 00:41:15 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -32.157
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-32.157 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_80=2, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04=2.041, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619,
	RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_HTML_A_BODY=0.742,
	SARE_HTML_IMG_ONLY=1.666, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id uhCtfEPRdAl7
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Fri,  9 Jan 2009 00:41:11 -0800 (PST)
Received: from alfadelta.com (unknown [194.228.15.83])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 40EFB3A6853
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Fri,  9 Jan 2009 00:41:09 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Returned mail: unreachable recipients
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090109084110.40EFB3A6853@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Fri,  9 Jan 2009 00:41:09 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
</HEAD>
<BODY><a href="http://islandstrength.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://islandstrength.com/10.jpg" border=0 alt="Having trouble viewing this email?
Click here to view as a webpage."></a></BODY></HTML>


From oliviabarrett@0donnell.com  Fri Jan  9 17:51:21 2009
Return-Path: <oliviabarrett@0donnell.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 526493A6B25
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Fri,  9 Jan 2009 17:51:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -44.111
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-44.111 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295,
	HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877,
	RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id 7HcrqmSi78hf
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Fri,  9 Jan 2009 17:51:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from cpc3-warr5-0-0-cust187.bagu.cable.ntl.com (cpc3-warr5-0-0-cust187.bagu.cable.ntl.com [86.5.36.188])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D47003A6985
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Fri,  9 Jan 2009 17:51:16 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order 07235
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090110015116.D47003A6985@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Fri,  9 Jan 2009 17:51:16 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://dividebar.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://dividebar.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://dividebar.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://dividebar.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://dividebar.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 79526</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From koykkapcw@amrusa.com  Sat Jan 10 02:53:58 2009
Return-Path: <koykkapcw@amrusa.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C26628C0D6
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:53:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -33.545
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-33.545 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id cpa8eVKqStx9
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:53:57 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ajsbbs.com (unknown [85.106.228.76])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id F1F323A681A
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:53:54 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order 22378
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090110105355.F1F323A681A@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:53:54 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://founddid.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://founddid.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://founddid.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://founddid.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://founddid.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 47290</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From lulun@afo.net  Sat Jan 10 07:08:46 2009
Return-Path: <lulun@afo.net>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3468B3A689B
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:08:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -13.545
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.545 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id Iyqbq-LLZgLb
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:08:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: from agriquality.com (unknown [85.102.105.137])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9919B3A68D7
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:08:42 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Message 18391
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 000762-5, 31.07.2007), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Message-Id: <20090110150843.9919B3A68D7@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:08:42 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://founddid.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://founddid.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://founddid.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://founddid.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://founddid.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 43161</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From ldqehmez@alruck.com  Sat Jan 10 07:57:28 2009
Return-Path: <ldqehmez@alruck.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 159CD3A6912
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:57:28 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -23.001
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-23.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129,
	HELO_EQ_PL=1.135, HOST_EQ_PL=1.95, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_UNI=0.591,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id epPWOXttJ3iz
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:57:27 -0800 (PST)
Received: from anh35.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl (anh35.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl [83.26.89.35])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 85F0A3A6908
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:57:24 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Message 26974
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090110155725.85F0A3A6908@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:57:24 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#eeeeee">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://harmonytop.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://harmonytop.com/newtop2.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<br><div align=center>©2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://harmonytop.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://harmonytop.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://harmonytop.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 49353</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Sat Jan 10 08:12:31 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B003A6908;
	Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:12:31 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E10FA28C108;
	Tue,  6 Jan 2009 11:08:47 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.412
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.412 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.187, 
	BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id TG1JDA-nLA1s; Tue,  6 Jan 2009 11:08:47 -0800 (PST)
Received: from exprod7og103.obsmtp.com (exprod7og103.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.159])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C2F03A6A98;
	Tue,  6 Jan 2009 11:08:47 -0800 (PST)
Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by
	exprod7ob103.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP
	ID DSNKSWOsMtOTgoJ3zs7flPjce/tIyWPfMog5@postini.com;
	Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:08:35 PST
Received: from p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net (66.129.254.71) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net
	(172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.1.336.0;
	Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:04:22 -0800
Received: from p-emsmtp03.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.54]) by p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net
	with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:04:22 -0800
Received: from emailwf1.jnpr.net ([10.10.2.33]) by p-emsmtp03.jnpr.net with
	Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959);	 Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:04:21 -0800
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:04:18 -0500
Message-ID: <3525C9833C09ED418C6FD6CD9514668C05660B4F@emailwf1.jnpr.net>
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
Thread-Topic: Last Call: draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf (Reduced Backus-Naur Form
	(RBNF) A Syntax Used in Various Protocol Specifications) to
	Proposed Standard 
Thread-Index: AclwMIRsBs6pUzOtTVCjiAYG5vI6zwAABnxA
From: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>, <mpls@lists.ietf.org>, <pce@ietf.org>,
	<routing-discussion@ietf.org>, <tsvwg@ietf.org>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2009 19:04:21.0767 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[95523170:01C97031]
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:12:30 -0800
Cc: Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>,
	Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>,
	David Ward <dward@cisco.com>
Subject: [Tsvwg] FW: Last Call: draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf (Reduced
	Backus-Naur Form (RBNF) A Syntax Used in Various Protocol
	Specifications) to Proposed Standard
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org

FYI.  This may be of interest to the CCAMP, MPLS, PCE and TSVWG WGs.

thanks, Ross

-----Original Message-----
From: ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:ietf-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of The IESG
Sent: 06 January 2009 13:56
To: IETF-Announce
Subject: Last Call: draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf (Reduced Backus-Naur
Form (RBNF) A Syntax Used in Various Protocol Specifications) to
Proposed Standard=20

The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to consider
the following document:

- 'Reduced Backus-Naur Form (RBNF) A Syntax Used in Various Protocol=20
   Specifications '
   <draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf-07.txt> as a Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action.  Please send substantive comments to the
ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2009-02-03. Exceptionally,=20
comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please=20
retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

The file can be obtained via
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-farrel-rtg-common-bnf-07.txt


IESG discussion can be tracked via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=3Dview_id&dTag=
=3D
17681&rfc_flag=3D0

_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce


From liuzhihong@acebj.com  Sat Jan 10 16:33:01 2009
Return-Path: <liuzhihong@acebj.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 115153A6A8A
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:33:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -15.327
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.327 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033,
	RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id JXLXkYytWsNy
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:33:00 -0800 (PST)
Received: from abs-cbn.com (unknown [91.193.35.137])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D277D3A6A87
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:32:47 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Order status 28350
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090111003258.D277D3A6A87@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:32:47 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1250">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://founddid.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://founddid.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://founddid.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://founddid.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://founddid.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 23872</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From laurent.hopsorts@afaq.org  Sun Jan 11 20:29:19 2009
Return-Path: <laurent.hopsorts@afaq.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E3FE28C29C
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:29:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -25.678
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-25.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067,
	RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id U3JjTji5-8Yi
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:29:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 88.204.203.249.metro.online.kz (88.204.203.249.metro.online.kz [88.204.203.249])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 27CB03A6908
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:29:15 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Message 28907
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090112042917.27CB03A6908@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:29:15 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://stoodtube.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://stoodtube.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://stoodtube.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://stoodtube.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://stoodtube.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 39148</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From mario@adbibendum.be  Mon Jan 12 00:31:16 2009
Return-Path: <mario@adbibendum.be>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A4D83A67E6
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 00:31:16 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -29.49
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-29.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295,
	HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_HU=1.35, HOST_EQ_HU=1.245,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877,
	RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id GjQNs71PcGYD
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Mon, 12 Jan 2009 00:31:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 183-93-86.ip.adsl.hu (183-93-86.ip.adsl.hu [81.183.93.86])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0929C3A67F8
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 00:31:08 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order 20052
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090112083109.0929C3A67F8@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 00:31:08 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://motivationdevelop.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://motivationdevelop.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://motivationdevelop.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://motivationdevelop.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://motivationdevelop.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 88414</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From kukcxoeytykih@ais-uk.org  Tue Jan 13 03:21:03 2009
Return-Path: <kukcxoeytykih@ais-uk.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E2D3A681A
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:21:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -51.266
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-51.266 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_MISMATCH_UK=1.749, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id l05bKhC3iiAK
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:21:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: from afco.demon.co.uk (unknown [122.164.76.254])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 56E853A67E5
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:21:00 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order 47313
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090113112101.56E853A67E5@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:21:00 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1250">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://prosperityhave.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://prosperityhave.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://prosperityhave.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://prosperityhave.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://prosperityhave.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 37768</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From orae@akumar.com  Tue Jan 13 07:07:18 2009
Return-Path: <orae@akumar.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E458D3A67B1
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:07:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -13.508
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.508 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_95=3, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144,
	HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_12=2.46,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_1=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id n6vy84ZOYYKi
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:07:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from host222-12-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it (host222-12-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it [87.16.12.222])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1718228C0F0
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:07:16 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Message 97410
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090113150717.1718228C0F0@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 07:07:16 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1250">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#eeeeee">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://thereoptimism.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://thereoptimism.com/newtop2.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<br><div align=center>©2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://thereoptimism.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://thereoptimism.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://thereoptimism.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 71141</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Jan 15 00:22:48 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1363A6839;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:22:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C6A3A67D6
	for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:22:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.694
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.694 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[AWL=-0.584, BAYES_05=-1.11]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id M4YjrRZcgDIh for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:22:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 98A303A6839
	for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:22:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 15 Jan 2009 08:22:29 -0000
Received: from unknown (EHLO 4FIL42860) [192.100.124.156]
	by mail.gmx.net (mp024) with SMTP; 15 Jan 2009 09:22:29 +0100
X-Authenticated: #29516787
X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18REMcGqB4R2IiSci2Hfr60GuGkRwBTrhdB8nEmPv
	+kwmjUOrMOjL2n
From: "Hannes Tschofenig" <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net>
To: <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:24:21 +0200
Message-ID: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350
Thread-Index: Acl26qph0wBcJ3qqQWeFAXcqVAXFMQ==
X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0
X-FuHaFi: 0.59
Subject: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org

By coincident I ran into the following draft: 
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05

Section 2.3 says: 

"
   On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for
   authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we note that
   clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers, NSIS
   has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited to
   unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the
   relevant services.  We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the
   UNI.  Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed
   between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not required.
"

and the IANA consideration section says:

"
   This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as
   RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network
   Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the option
   of the interconnected networks.
"

The text (to me) sounds like that this DSCP essentially requires RSVP to be
implemented in order to get this to work. This is IMHO not correct. 

To give you one other example of a standardized mechanism that would do the
job: Rx/Gx (3GPP)

Ciao
Hannes



From novelty-hu@aldeasamexico.com  Thu Jan 15 02:48:36 2009
Return-Path: <novelty-hu@aldeasamexico.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73C283A67E6
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:48:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -12.968
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.968 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635,
	HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_UNI=0.591,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id N476twgH33T9
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:48:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: from host46-155-static.22-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it (host46-155-static.22-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it [87.22.155.46])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BCBEF3A6877
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:48:26 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Message 33848
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090115104827.BCBEF3A6877@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:48:26 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://responsibilitysight.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://responsibilitysight.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://responsibilitysight.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://responsibilitysight.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://responsibilitysight.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 15711</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Jan 15 05:00:11 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 526FE28C23D;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:00:11 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E867E28C23D
	for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:00:10 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id chvvJbKBuxdz for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:00:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from portland.eukhost.com (portland.eukhost.com [92.48.97.5])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E97D28C117
	for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:00:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 190-82-143-146.adsl.tie.cl ([190.82.143.146]:56375
	helo=[205.10.80.216])
	by portland.eukhost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <carlberg@g11.org.uk>)
	id 1LNRp5-0000Yh-Rx; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:59:48 +0000
In-Reply-To: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net>
References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <DA976043-F857-45D2-AFB2-5FBC1D54E2A6@g11.org.uk>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: ken carlberg <carlberg@g11.org.uk>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 09:59:48 -0300
To: "Hannes Tschofenig" <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1)
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,
	please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - portland.eukhost.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - g11.org.uk
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org

I'm afraid you've lost me.  The words "recommend" and "such as" from  
the cited text below doesn't IMO come close to giving an impression  
of "essentially requires".  The cited text makes an observation about  
the work from NSIS, with (my) assumption that the authors choose to  
discuss the topic within the context of IETF signaling protocols.

If you would like to advocate the integration of Rx/Gx (3GPP) with  
the work at hand, perhaps it may be more helpful to describe this  
suggested interaction in more detail with suggested text.

cheers,

-ken


On Jan 15, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote:

> By coincident I ran into the following draft:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
>
> Section 2.3 says:
>
> "
>    On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for
>    authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we note that
>    clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers,  
> NSIS
>    has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited to
>    unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the
>    relevant services.  We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the
>    UNI.  Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed
>    between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not  
> required.
> "
>
> and the IANA consideration section says:
>
> "
>    This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as
>    RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network
>    Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the  
> option
>    of the interconnected networks.
> "
>
> The text (to me) sounds like that this DSCP essentially requires  
> RSVP to be
> implemented in order to get this to work. This is IMHO not correct.
>
> To give you one other example of a standardized mechanism that  
> would do the
> job: Rx/Gx (3GPP)
>
> Ciao
> Hannes
>



From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Jan 15 05:04:58 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6AA28C10B;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:04:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F3EE28C10B
	for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:04:57 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.546
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.053, 
	BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id CbNfmyYclSFy for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:04:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net
	[217.115.75.233])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4E9828C101
	for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:04:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55])
	by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id
	n0FD4PGL029440
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:04:25 +0100
Received: from demuexc025.nsn-intra.net (demuexc025.nsn-intra.net
	[10.159.32.12])
	by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP
	id n0FD4Puh021415; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:04:25 +0100
Received: from FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.0.15]) by
	demuexc025.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); 
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:04:25 +0100
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:04:58 +0200
Message-ID: <C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC6582@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
In-Reply-To: <DA976043-F857-45D2-AFB2-5FBC1D54E2A6@g11.org.uk>
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
Thread-Topic: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
Thread-Index: Acl3EYcoGMD+BkgeT4mcqBQuzvAf4QAADQyw
References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net>
	<DA976043-F857-45D2-AFB2-5FBC1D54E2A6@g11.org.uk>
From: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" <hannes.tschofenig@nsn.com>
To: "ext ken carlberg" <carlberg@g11.org.uk>,
	"Hannes Tschofenig" <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2009 13:04:25.0060 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[CA65FA40:01C97711]
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org

Hi Ken,=20

I would like the document not to talk about this at all.=20
I don't know why it has to.=20

Ciao
Hannes=20

>-----Original Message-----
>From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org]=20
>On Behalf Of ext ken carlberg
>Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:00
>To: Hannes Tschofenig
>Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
>Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
>
>I'm afraid you've lost me.  The words "recommend" and "such=20
>as" from the cited text below doesn't IMO come close to giving=20
>an impression of "essentially requires".  The cited text makes=20
>an observation about the work from NSIS, with (my) assumption=20
>that the authors choose to discuss the topic within the=20
>context of IETF signaling protocols.
>
>If you would like to advocate the integration of Rx/Gx (3GPP)=20
>with the work at hand, perhaps it may be more helpful to=20
>describe this suggested interaction in more detail with suggested text.
>
>cheers,
>
>-ken
>
>
>On Jan 15, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote:
>
>> By coincident I ran into the following draft:
>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
>>
>> Section 2.3 says:
>>
>> "
>>    On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for
>>    authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we=20
>note that
>>    clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers,=20
>> NSIS
>>    has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited to
>>    unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the
>>    relevant services.  We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the
>>    UNI.  Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed
>>    between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not=20
>> required.
>> "
>>
>> and the IANA consideration section says:
>>
>> "
>>    This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as
>>    RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network
>>    Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the=20
>> option
>>    of the interconnected networks.
>> "
>>
>> The text (to me) sounds like that this DSCP essentially=20
>requires RSVP=20
>> to be implemented in order to get this to work. This is IMHO not=20
>> correct.
>>
>> To give you one other example of a standardized mechanism that would=20
>> do the
>> job: Rx/Gx (3GPP)
>>
>> Ciao
>> Hannes
>>
>
>


From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Jan 15 05:13:44 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4168128C200;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:13:44 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B196828C200
	for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:13:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id MHaT7ycdgZI7 for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:13:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from portland.eukhost.com (portland.eukhost.com [92.48.97.5])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81F1528C101
	for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:13:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 190-82-143-146.adsl.tie.cl ([190.82.143.146]:56487
	helo=[205.10.80.216])
	by portland.eukhost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <carlberg@g11.org.uk>)
	id 1LNS2C-0003G3-G0; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:13:20 +0000
In-Reply-To: <C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC6582@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net>
	<DA976043-F857-45D2-AFB2-5FBC1D54E2A6@g11.org.uk>
	<C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC6582@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: ken carlberg <carlberg@g11.org.uk>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:13:21 -0300
To: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" <hannes.tschofenig@nsn.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1)
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,
	please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - portland.eukhost.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - g11.org.uk
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org

ok, but could you make a stronger case as for why?  the cited text  
presents context and recommendations with what we have on hand now,  
but doesn't make a hard requirement of MUST.  if someone else comes  
along later and defines a better widget, or simply another way of  
accomplishing the fundamental objectives of the draft with a  
different signaling protocol....great, and please let's encourage  
them to tell "us" how.

cheers,

-ken


On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:04 AM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) wrote:

> Hi Ken,
>
> I would like the document not to talk about this at all.
> I don't know why it has to.
>
> Ciao
> Hannes
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org]
>> On Behalf Of ext ken carlberg
>> Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:00
>> To: Hannes Tschofenig
>> Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
>>
>> I'm afraid you've lost me.  The words "recommend" and "such
>> as" from the cited text below doesn't IMO come close to giving
>> an impression of "essentially requires".  The cited text makes
>> an observation about the work from NSIS, with (my) assumption
>> that the authors choose to discuss the topic within the
>> context of IETF signaling protocols.
>>
>> If you would like to advocate the integration of Rx/Gx (3GPP)
>> with the work at hand, perhaps it may be more helpful to
>> describe this suggested interaction in more detail with suggested  
>> text.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> -ken
>>
>>
>> On Jan 15, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote:
>>
>>> By coincident I ran into the following draft:
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime- 
>>> dscp-05
>>>
>>> Section 2.3 says:
>>>
>>> "
>>>    On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for
>>>    authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we
>> note that
>>>    clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers,
>>> NSIS
>>>    has not at this time been finalized and in any event is  
>>> limited to
>>>    unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the
>>>    relevant services.  We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the
>>>    UNI.  Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed
>>>    between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not
>>> required.
>>> "
>>>
>>> and the IANA consideration section says:
>>>
>>> "
>>>    This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as
>>>    RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network
>>>    Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the
>>> option
>>>    of the interconnected networks.
>>> "
>>>
>>> The text (to me) sounds like that this DSCP essentially
>> requires RSVP
>>> to be implemented in order to get this to work. This is IMHO not
>>> correct.
>>>
>>> To give you one other example of a standardized mechanism that would
>>> do the
>>> job: Rx/Gx (3GPP)
>>>
>>> Ciao
>>> Hannes
>>>
>>
>>



From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Jan 15 05:19:27 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C49FA3A68D8;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:19:27 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A853A3A68D8
	for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:19:26 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.566
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[AWL=-0.967, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id Fq+GZHGg0fOH for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:19:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net
	[217.115.75.234])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3F803A679C
	for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:19:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55])
	by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id
	n0FDJ2bx017625
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:19:02 +0100
Received: from demuexc024.nsn-intra.net (demuexc024.nsn-intra.net
	[10.159.32.11])
	by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP
	id n0FDJ2RZ014797; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:19:02 +0100
Received: from FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.0.15]) by
	demuexc024.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); 
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:19:02 +0100
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:19:35 +0200
Message-ID: <C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC65C9@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
In-Reply-To: <6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk>
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
Thread-Topic: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
Thread-Index: Acl3ExH+cU+exuk+QJCCKmU/iXDz2gAAEdKA
References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net>
	<DA976043-F857-45D2-AFB2-5FBC1D54E2A6@g11.org.uk>
	<C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC6582@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
	<6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk>
From: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" <hannes.tschofenig@nsn.com>
To: "ext ken carlberg" <carlberg@g11.org.uk>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2009 13:19:02.0252 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[D53EDAC0:01C97713]
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org

Creating the perception that only RSVP can be used to provide the
required functionality does not reflect reality.=20
If one wants to be fair then this has to be stated. When protocols are
discussed then it would be fair to say that there isn't only RSVP and
NSIS.=20

Does this make sense to you?=20

Ciao
Hannes

>-----Original Message-----
>From: ext ken carlberg [mailto:carlberg@g11.org.uk]=20
>Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:13
>To: Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)
>Cc: Hannes Tschofenig; tsvwg@ietf.org
>Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
>
>ok, but could you make a stronger case as for why?  the cited=20
>text presents context and recommendations with what we have on=20
>hand now, but doesn't make a hard requirement of MUST.  if=20
>someone else comes along later and defines a better widget, or=20
>simply another way of accomplishing the fundamental objectives=20
>of the draft with a different signaling protocol....great, and=20
>please let's encourage them to tell "us" how.
>
>cheers,
>
>-ken
>
>
>On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:04 AM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN -=20
>FI/Espoo) wrote:
>
>> Hi Ken,
>>
>> I would like the document not to talk about this at all.
>> I don't know why it has to.
>>
>> Ciao
>> Hannes
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On=20
>>> Behalf Of ext ken carlberg
>>> Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:00
>>> To: Hannes Tschofenig
>>> Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
>>>
>>> I'm afraid you've lost me.  The words "recommend" and "such=20
>as" from=20
>>> the cited text below doesn't IMO come close to giving an impression=20
>>> of "essentially requires".  The cited text makes an=20
>observation about=20
>>> the work from NSIS, with (my) assumption that the authors choose to=20
>>> discuss the topic within the context of IETF signaling protocols.
>>>
>>> If you would like to advocate the integration of Rx/Gx (3GPP) with=20
>>> the work at hand, perhaps it may be more helpful to describe this=20
>>> suggested interaction in more detail with suggested text.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> -ken
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 15, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote:
>>>
>>>> By coincident I ran into the following draft:
>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-
>>>> dscp-05
>>>>
>>>> Section 2.3 says:
>>>>
>>>> "
>>>>    On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for
>>>>    authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we
>>> note that
>>>>    clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth=20
>brokers,=20
>>>> NSIS
>>>>    has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited=20
>>>> to
>>>>    unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized=20
>and has the
>>>>    relevant services.  We therefore recommend the use of=20
>RSVP at the
>>>>    UNI.  Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed
>>>>    between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not=20
>>>> required.
>>>> "
>>>>
>>>> and the IANA consideration section says:
>>>>
>>>> "
>>>>    This traffic class requires the use of capacity=20
>admission such as
>>>>    RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network
>>>>    Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the=20
>>>> option
>>>>    of the interconnected networks.
>>>> "
>>>>
>>>> The text (to me) sounds like that this DSCP essentially
>>> requires RSVP
>>>> to be implemented in order to get this to work. This is IMHO not=20
>>>> correct.
>>>>
>>>> To give you one other example of a standardized mechanism=20
>that would=20
>>>> do the
>>>> job: Rx/Gx (3GPP)
>>>>
>>>> Ciao
>>>> Hannes
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>


From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Jan 15 05:34:54 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F38AB28C200;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:34:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29AD928C200
	for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:34:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id 8RrD6v1P-gE4 for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:34:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: from portland.eukhost.com (portland.eukhost.com [92.48.97.5])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBCB928C133
	for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:34:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 190-82-143-146.adsl.tie.cl ([190.82.143.146]:56646
	helo=[205.10.80.216])
	by portland.eukhost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <carlberg@g11.org.uk>)
	id 1LNSMe-0003hB-Vy; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:34:29 +0000
In-Reply-To: <C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC65C9@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net>
	<DA976043-F857-45D2-AFB2-5FBC1D54E2A6@g11.org.uk>
	<C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC6582@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
	<6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk>
	<C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC65C9@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <631E7BDF-E12B-4C7B-B3A9-BB3BD1713D84@g11.org.uk>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: ken carlberg <carlberg@g11.org.uk>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:34:29 -0300
To: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" <hannes.tschofenig@nsn.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1)
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,
	please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - portland.eukhost.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - g11.org.uk
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org

no, and this discussion is becoming circular.  I go back to the  
preciseness of the language in the text of the draft that discusses  
RSVP as a recommendation, not a requirement in the form of a must.

to follow your line of reasoning, we would need to go back to all  
protocols that interact with SIP and say "please consider other  
protocols like H.323, and perform the interaction in the following  
way (blah, blah, blah)", since there are others means to signal the  
establishment of sessions.

the two of us seem to agree to disagree.

kindest regards,

-ken


On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:19 AM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo) wrote:

> Creating the perception that only RSVP can be used to provide the
> required functionality does not reflect reality.
> If one wants to be fair then this has to be stated. When protocols are
> discussed then it would be fair to say that there isn't only RSVP and
> NSIS.
>
> Does this make sense to you?
>
> Ciao
> Hannes
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ext ken carlberg [mailto:carlberg@g11.org.uk]
>> Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:13
>> To: Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)
>> Cc: Hannes Tschofenig; tsvwg@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
>>
>> ok, but could you make a stronger case as for why?  the cited
>> text presents context and recommendations with what we have on
>> hand now, but doesn't make a hard requirement of MUST.  if
>> someone else comes along later and defines a better widget, or
>> simply another way of accomplishing the fundamental objectives
>> of the draft with a different signaling protocol....great, and
>> please let's encourage them to tell "us" how.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> -ken
>>
>>
>> On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:04 AM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN -
>> FI/Espoo) wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ken,
>>>
>>> I would like the document not to talk about this at all.
>>> I don't know why it has to.
>>>
>>> Ciao
>>> Hannes
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of ext ken carlberg
>>>> Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:00
>>>> To: Hannes Tschofenig
>>>> Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
>>>>
>>>> I'm afraid you've lost me.  The words "recommend" and "such
>> as" from
>>>> the cited text below doesn't IMO come close to giving an impression
>>>> of "essentially requires".  The cited text makes an
>> observation about
>>>> the work from NSIS, with (my) assumption that the authors choose to
>>>> discuss the topic within the context of IETF signaling protocols.
>>>>
>>>> If you would like to advocate the integration of Rx/Gx (3GPP) with
>>>> the work at hand, perhaps it may be more helpful to describe this
>>>> suggested interaction in more detail with suggested text.
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>>
>>>> -ken
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 15, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> By coincident I ran into the following draft:
>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-
>>>>> dscp-05
>>>>>
>>>>> Section 2.3 says:
>>>>>
>>>>> "
>>>>>    On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for
>>>>>    authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we
>>>> note that
>>>>>    clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth
>> brokers,
>>>>> NSIS
>>>>>    has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited
>>>>> to
>>>>>    unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized
>> and has the
>>>>>    relevant services.  We therefore recommend the use of
>> RSVP at the
>>>>>    UNI.  Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be  
>>>>> discussed
>>>>>    between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not
>>>>> required.
>>>>> "
>>>>>
>>>>> and the IANA consideration section says:
>>>>>
>>>>> "
>>>>>    This traffic class requires the use of capacity
>> admission such as
>>>>>    RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network
>>>>>    Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the
>>>>> option
>>>>>    of the interconnected networks.
>>>>> "
>>>>>
>>>>> The text (to me) sounds like that this DSCP essentially
>>>> requires RSVP
>>>>> to be implemented in order to get this to work. This is IMHO not
>>>>> correct.
>>>>>
>>>>> To give you one other example of a standardized mechanism
>> that would
>>>>> do the
>>>>> job: Rx/Gx (3GPP)
>>>>>
>>>>> Ciao
>>>>> Hannes
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>



From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Jan 15 08:36:45 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A47E03A6969;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:36:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23F353A6962
	for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:36:44 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.548
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.548 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.051, 
	BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id wOG6qSgfRmwy for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:36:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (demumfd001.nsn-inter.net
	[217.115.75.233])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 121123A68FF
	for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 08:36:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55])
	by demumfd001.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id
	n0FGaI11021311
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:36:18 +0100
Received: from demuexc024.nsn-intra.net (demuexc024.nsn-intra.net
	[10.159.32.11])
	by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP
	id n0FGaIWD003721; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:36:18 +0100
Received: from FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.0.15]) by
	demuexc024.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); 
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:36:17 +0100
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:36:52 +0200
Message-ID: <C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FE66E6@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
In-Reply-To: <631E7BDF-E12B-4C7B-B3A9-BB3BD1713D84@g11.org.uk>
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
Thread-Topic: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
Thread-Index: Acl3FgrhPI5wOOzqRJilBeBxB6jYzAAC34Jg
References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net>
	<DA976043-F857-45D2-AFB2-5FBC1D54E2A6@g11.org.uk>
	<C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC6582@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
	<6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk>
	<C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC65C9@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
	<631E7BDF-E12B-4C7B-B3A9-BB3BD1713D84@g11.org.uk>
From: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" <hannes.tschofenig@nsn.com>
To: "ext ken carlberg" <carlberg@g11.org.uk>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2009 16:36:17.0878 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[63D40F60:01C9772F]
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org

Hi Ken,=20

Don't give up so quickly. I know, you are not the author of the document
but let us look at the text in detail and my proposal for change:=20


2.3.  Recommendations on implementation of an Admitted Telephony Service
      Class

   It is the belief of the authors that either PHB implementation
   described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA and capacity
   admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are sufficient to
   provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service
   class.


CHANGE PROPOSAL:
"
   It is the belief of the working group that either PHB implementation
   described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA and capacity
   admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are sufficient to
   provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service
   class.
"

REASON: I hope the working group believes it as well and not only the
authors.=20

   If preemption is required, as described in section 2.3.5.2 of
   [RFC4542], this provides the tools for carrying out the preemption.
   If preemption is not in view, or if used in addition to preemptive
   services, the application of different thresholds depending on call
   precedence has the effect of improving the probability of call
   completion by admitting preferred calls at a time that other calls
   are being refused.  Routine and priority traffic can be admitted
   using the same DSCP value, as the choice of which calls are admitted
   is handled in the admission procedure executed in the control plane,
   not the policing of the data plane.

   On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for
   authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we note that
   clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers, NSIS
   has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited to
   unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the
   relevant services.  We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the
   UNI.  Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed
   between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not required.

CHANGE PROPOSAL:

"
As previously noted, the PHB implementation requires the QoS resource
request triggered from the end device (UNI interface) and the subscriber
to be authenticated and authorized. Different mechanisms are available
for conveying the QoS information and also for performing the
authentication and authorization. This document does not mandate a
specific protocol to be used.=20
"

REASON: The discussion regarding NSIS vs. RSVP is irrelevant for this
document. The recommendation for RSVP is not necessary in order to
accomplish the overall goal of this document.=20

5.  Security Considerations

   A major requirement of this service is effective use of a signaling
   protocol such as RSVP, with the capabilities to identify its user
   either as an individual or as a member of some corporate entity, and
   assert a policy such as "routine" or "priority".

   This capability, one has to believe, will be abused by script kiddies
   and others if the proof of identity is not adequately strong or if
   policies are written or implemented improperly by the carriers.  This
   goes without saying, but this section is here for it to be said...

A question: Is there really a (major) requirement to identity the user
as individual or as a member of some corporate entity? I would have said
that there are authentication and authorization requirement but not
necessarily regarding the membership.=20

4.  IANA Considerations

   This note requests that IANA assign a DSCP value to a second EF
   traffic class consistent with [RFC3246] and [RFC3247] in the
   "Differentiated Services Field Codepoints" registry.  It implements
   the Telephony Service Class described in [RFC4594] at lower speeds
   and is included in the Real Time Treatment Aggregate [RFC5127] at
   higher speeds.  The recommended value for the code point is 101100,
   paralleling the EF code point, which is 101110.  The code point
   should be referred to as VOICE-ADMIT.

   This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as
   RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network
   Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the option
   of the interconnected networks.

SUGGESTION: Delete last paragraph as it does not add anything beyond
what was said in the document.

Ciao
Hannes

>-----Original Message-----
>From: ext ken carlberg [mailto:carlberg@g11.org.uk]=20
>Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:34
>To: Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)
>Cc: Hannes Tschofenig; tsvwg@ietf.org
>Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
>
>no, and this discussion is becoming circular.  I go back to=20
>the preciseness of the language in the text of the draft that=20
>discusses RSVP as a recommendation, not a requirement in the=20
>form of a must.
>
>to follow your line of reasoning, we would need to go back to=20
>all protocols that interact with SIP and say "please consider=20
>other protocols like H.323, and perform the interaction in the=20
>following way (blah, blah, blah)", since there are others=20
>means to signal the establishment of sessions.
>
>the two of us seem to agree to disagree.
>
>kindest regards,
>
>-ken
>
>
>On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:19 AM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN -=20
>FI/Espoo) wrote:
>
>> Creating the perception that only RSVP can be used to provide the=20
>> required functionality does not reflect reality.
>> If one wants to be fair then this has to be stated. When=20
>protocols are=20
>> discussed then it would be fair to say that there isn't only=20
>RSVP and=20
>> NSIS.
>>
>> Does this make sense to you?
>>
>> Ciao
>> Hannes
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ext ken carlberg [mailto:carlberg@g11.org.uk]
>>> Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:13
>>> To: Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)
>>> Cc: Hannes Tschofenig; tsvwg@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
>>>
>>> ok, but could you make a stronger case as for why?  the cited text=20
>>> presents context and recommendations with what we have on hand now,=20
>>> but doesn't make a hard requirement of MUST.  if someone else comes=20
>>> along later and defines a better widget, or simply another way of=20
>>> accomplishing the fundamental objectives of the draft with a=20
>>> different signaling protocol....great, and please let's encourage=20
>>> them to tell "us" how.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> -ken
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:04 AM, Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN -
>>> FI/Espoo) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Ken,
>>>>
>>>> I would like the document not to talk about this at all.
>>>> I don't know why it has to.
>>>>
>>>> Ciao
>>>> Hannes
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On=20
>>>>> Behalf Of ext ken carlberg
>>>>> Sent: 15 January, 2009 15:00
>>>>> To: Hannes Tschofenig
>>>>> Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm afraid you've lost me.  The words "recommend" and "such
>>> as" from
>>>>> the cited text below doesn't IMO come close to giving an=20
>impression=20
>>>>> of "essentially requires".  The cited text makes an
>>> observation about
>>>>> the work from NSIS, with (my) assumption that the authors=20
>choose to=20
>>>>> discuss the topic within the context of IETF signaling protocols.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you would like to advocate the integration of Rx/Gx=20
>(3GPP) with=20
>>>>> the work at hand, perhaps it may be more helpful to describe this=20
>>>>> suggested interaction in more detail with suggested text.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> -ken
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 15, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> By coincident I ran into the following draft:
>>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-
>>>>>> dscp-05
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Section 2.3 says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "
>>>>>>    On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for
>>>>>>    authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we
>>>>> note that
>>>>>>    clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth
>>> brokers,
>>>>>> NSIS
>>>>>>    has not at this time been finalized and in any event=20
>is limited=20
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>    unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized
>>> and has the
>>>>>>    relevant services.  We therefore recommend the use of
>>> RSVP at the
>>>>>>    UNI.  Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be=20
>>>>>> discussed
>>>>>>    between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not=20
>>>>>> required.
>>>>>> "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and the IANA consideration section says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "
>>>>>>    This traffic class requires the use of capacity
>>> admission such as
>>>>>>    RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network
>>>>>>    Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI=20
>is at the=20
>>>>>> option
>>>>>>    of the interconnected networks.
>>>>>> "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The text (to me) sounds like that this DSCP essentially
>>>>> requires RSVP
>>>>>> to be implemented in order to get this to work. This is IMHO not=20
>>>>>> correct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To give you one other example of a standardized mechanism
>>> that would
>>>>>> do the
>>>>>> job: Rx/Gx (3GPP)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ciao
>>>>>> Hannes
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>


From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Jan 15 12:40:48 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE603A6848;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:40:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A28F63A6842
	for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:40:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, 
	BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id prddqQHhEx81 for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:40:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: from portland.eukhost.com (portland.eukhost.com [92.48.97.5])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 353B13A6848
	for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:40:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 190-82-143-146.adsl.tie.cl ([190.82.143.146]:57479
	helo=[205.10.80.216])
	by portland.eukhost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <carlberg@g11.org.uk>)
	id 1LNZ0m-0003wd-Sk; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:40:21 +0000
In-Reply-To: <C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FE66E6@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net>
	<DA976043-F857-45D2-AFB2-5FBC1D54E2A6@g11.org.uk>
	<C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC6582@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
	<6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk>
	<C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC65C9@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
	<631E7BDF-E12B-4C7B-B3A9-BB3BD1713D84@g11.org.uk>
	<C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FE66E6@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <59B6EA27-0120-4DAF-8401-A9041F411F71@g11.org.uk>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: ken carlberg <carlberg@g11.org.uk>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:40:25 -0300
To: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" <hannes.tschofenig@nsn.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1)
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse,
	please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - portland.eukhost.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - g11.org.uk
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org

Hannes,

I always appreciate your determination, but I'm just not convinced by  
your arguments :-)....more below...

> Hi Ken,
>
> Don't give up so quickly. I know, you are not the author of the  
> document
> but let us look at the text in detail and my proposal for change:
>
>
> 2.3.  Recommendations on implementation of an Admitted Telephony  
> Service
>       Class
>
>    It is the belief of the authors that either PHB implementation
>    described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA and capacity
>    admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are sufficient to
>    provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service
>    class.
>
>
> CHANGE PROPOSAL:
> "
>    It is the belief of the working group that either PHB  
> implementation
>    described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA and capacity
>    admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are sufficient to
>    provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service
>    class.
> "
>
> REASON: I hope the working group believes it as well and not only the
> authors.

fine and reasonable change from my perspective.

>    If preemption is required, as described in section 2.3.5.2 of
>    [RFC4542], this provides the tools for carrying out the preemption.
>    If preemption is not in view, or if used in addition to preemptive
>    services, the application of different thresholds depending on call
>    precedence has the effect of improving the probability of call
>    completion by admitting preferred calls at a time that other calls
>    are being refused.  Routine and priority traffic can be admitted
>    using the same DSCP value, as the choice of which calls are  
> admitted
>    is handled in the admission procedure executed in the control  
> plane,
>    not the policing of the data plane.
>
>    On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for
>    authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we note that
>    clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers,  
> NSIS
>    has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited to
>    unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the
>    relevant services.  We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the
>    UNI.  Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed
>    between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not  
> required.
>
> CHANGE PROPOSAL:
>
> "
> As previously noted, the PHB implementation requires the QoS resource
> request triggered from the end device (UNI interface) and the  
> subscriber
> to be authenticated and authorized. Different mechanisms are available
> for conveying the QoS information and also for performing the
> authentication and authorization. This document does not mandate a
> specific protocol to be used.
> "
>
> REASON: The discussion regarding NSIS vs. RSVP is irrelevant for this
> document. The recommendation for RSVP is not necessary in order to
> accomplish the overall goal of this document.

the problem is that you are leaving out the *critical* term of  
capacity admission in your proposed text.  And yes, take that out,  
and I have no qualms in removing references/text concerning NSIS and  
RSVP.  But, capacity admission has to be there...its part of the  
foundation for the draft in the first place.

While the term QoS tends to imply the probable use of capacity  
admission, its too broad a term with respect to how you choose to use  
it above.  For instance, I can configure filters for a CBQ router to  
alter the QoS for certain types of flow and thus influence the QoS  
received by those flows, but that effort does not necessarily deal  
with capacity admission.

> 5.  Security Considerations
>
>    A major requirement of this service is effective use of a signaling
>    protocol such as RSVP, with the capabilities to identify its user
>    either as an individual or as a member of some corporate entity,  
> and
>    assert a policy such as "routine" or "priority".
>
>    This capability, one has to believe, will be abused by script  
> kiddies
>    and others if the proof of identity is not adequately strong or if
>    policies are written or implemented improperly by the carriers.   
> This
>    goes without saying, but this section is here for it to be said...
>
> A question: Is there really a (major) requirement to identity the user
> as individual or as a member of some corporate entity? I would have  
> said
> that there are authentication and authorization requirement but not
> necessarily regarding the membership.

I don't have a strong opinion on this, so I suggest one of the co- 
authors chime in on this.

> 4.  IANA Considerations
>
>    This note requests that IANA assign a DSCP value to a second EF
>    traffic class consistent with [RFC3246] and [RFC3247] in the
>    "Differentiated Services Field Codepoints" registry.  It implements
>    the Telephony Service Class described in [RFC4594] at lower speeds
>    and is included in the Real Time Treatment Aggregate [RFC5127] at
>    higher speeds.  The recommended value for the code point is 101100,
>    paralleling the EF code point, which is 101110.  The code point
>    should be referred to as VOICE-ADMIT.
>
>    This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as
>    RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network
>    Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the  
> option
>    of the interconnected networks.
>
> SUGGESTION: Delete last paragraph as it does not add anything beyond
> what was said in the document.

let's not for now :-)

cheers,

-ken



From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Jan 15 12:46:30 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AFF73A6970;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:46:30 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B353A6970
	for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:46:28 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.567
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.567 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[AWL=-0.968, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id cRfhjlVob4lz for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:46:24 -0800 (PST)
Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net
	[217.115.75.234])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BBF73A68C1
	for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:46:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: from demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.55])
	by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id
	n0FKk4k9004044
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL);
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:46:04 +0100
Received: from demuexc025.nsn-intra.net (demuexc025.nsn-intra.net
	[10.159.32.12])
	by demuprx016.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP
	id n0FKk49d011626; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:46:04 +0100
Received: from FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.0.15]) by
	demuexc025.nsn-intra.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); 
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:46:04 +0100
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:46:35 +0200
Message-ID: <C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FE676D@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
In-Reply-To: <59B6EA27-0120-4DAF-8401-A9041F411F71@g11.org.uk>
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
Thread-Topic: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
Thread-Index: Acl3UYHHveW14oZXSp6ZaQj2iJs7UgAAFYjw
References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net>
	<DA976043-F857-45D2-AFB2-5FBC1D54E2A6@g11.org.uk>
	<C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC6582@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
	<6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk>
	<C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC65C9@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
	<631E7BDF-E12B-4C7B-B3A9-BB3BD1713D84@g11.org.uk>
	<C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FE66E6@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
	<59B6EA27-0120-4DAF-8401-A9041F411F71@g11.org.uk>
From: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" <hannes.tschofenig@nsn.com>
To: "ext ken carlberg" <carlberg@g11.org.uk>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Jan 2009 20:46:04.0224 (UTC)
	FILETIME=[4862FC00:01C97752]
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org

Hi Ken,=20

See below.=20

>Hannes,
>
>I always appreciate your determination, but I'm just not=20
>convinced by your arguments :-)....more below...
>
>> Hi Ken,
>>
>> Don't give up so quickly. I know, you are not the author of the=20
>> document but let us look at the text in detail and my proposal for=20
>> change:
>>
>>
>> 2.3.  Recommendations on implementation of an Admitted Telephony=20
>> Service
>>       Class
>>
>>    It is the belief of the authors that either PHB implementation
>>    described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA=20
>and capacity
>>    admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are=20
>sufficient to
>>    provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service
>>    class.
>>
>>
>> CHANGE PROPOSAL:
>> "
>>    It is the belief of the working group that either PHB=20
>> implementation
>>    described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA=20
>and capacity
>>    admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are=20
>sufficient to
>>    provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service
>>    class.
>> "
>>
>> REASON: I hope the working group believes it as well and not=20
>only the=20
>> authors.
>
>fine and reasonable change from my perspective.
>
>>    If preemption is required, as described in section 2.3.5.2 of
>>    [RFC4542], this provides the tools for carrying out the=20
>preemption.
>>    If preemption is not in view, or if used in addition to preemptive
>>    services, the application of different thresholds=20
>depending on call
>>    precedence has the effect of improving the probability of call
>>    completion by admitting preferred calls at a time that other calls
>>    are being refused.  Routine and priority traffic can be admitted
>>    using the same DSCP value, as the choice of which calls are=20
>> admitted
>>    is handled in the admission procedure executed in the control=20
>> plane,
>>    not the policing of the data plane.
>>
>>    On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for
>>    authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we=20
>note that
>>    clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers,=20
>> NSIS
>>    has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited to
>>    unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the
>>    relevant services.  We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the
>>    UNI.  Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed
>>    between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not=20
>> required.
>>
>> CHANGE PROPOSAL:
>>
>> "
>> As previously noted, the PHB implementation requires the QoS=20
>resource=20
>> request triggered from the end device (UNI interface) and the=20
>> subscriber to be authenticated and authorized. Different mechanisms=20
>> are available for conveying the QoS information and also for=20
>> performing the authentication and authorization. This document does=20
>> not mandate a specific protocol to be used.
>> "
>>
>> REASON: The discussion regarding NSIS vs. RSVP is irrelevant=20
>for this=20
>> document. The recommendation for RSVP is not necessary in order to=20
>> accomplish the overall goal of this document.
>
>the problem is that you are leaving out the *critical* term of=20
>capacity admission in your proposed text.  And yes, take that=20
>out, and I have no qualms in removing references/text=20
>concerning NSIS and RSVP.  But, capacity admission has to be=20
>there...its part of the foundation for the draft in the first place.

That's in the previous paragraph. I believe that there is no reason to
repeat it again.=20

>
>While the term QoS tends to imply the probable use of capacity=20
>admission, its too broad a term with respect to how you choose=20
>to use it above.  For instance, I can configure filters for a=20
>CBQ router to alter the QoS for certain types of flow and thus=20
>influence the QoS received by those flows, but that effort=20
>does not necessarily deal with capacity admission.

That's true. Signaling the QoS parameters does not imply capacity
admission control.=20
However, I believe it is covered by the previous paragraph already.=20

>
>> 5.  Security Considerations
>>
>>    A major requirement of this service is effective use of a=20
>signaling
>>    protocol such as RSVP, with the capabilities to identify its user
>>    either as an individual or as a member of some corporate entity,=20
>> and
>>    assert a policy such as "routine" or "priority".
>>
>>    This capability, one has to believe, will be abused by script=20
>> kiddies
>>    and others if the proof of identity is not adequately strong or if
>>    policies are written or implemented improperly by the carriers.  =20
>> This
>>    goes without saying, but this section is here for it to be said...
>>
>> A question: Is there really a (major) requirement to=20
>identity the user=20
>> as individual or as a member of some corporate entity? I would have=20
>> said that there are authentication and authorization requirement but=20
>> not necessarily regarding the membership.
>
>I don't have a strong opinion on this, so I suggest one of the=20
>co- authors chime in on this.
>
>> 4.  IANA Considerations
>>
>>    This note requests that IANA assign a DSCP value to a second EF
>>    traffic class consistent with [RFC3246] and [RFC3247] in the
>>    "Differentiated Services Field Codepoints" registry.  It=20
>implements
>>    the Telephony Service Class described in [RFC4594] at lower speeds
>>    and is included in the Real Time Treatment Aggregate [RFC5127] at
>>    higher speeds.  The recommended value for the code point=20
>is 101100,
>>    paralleling the EF code point, which is 101110.  The code point
>>    should be referred to as VOICE-ADMIT.
>>
>>    This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as
>>    RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network
>>    Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the=20
>> option
>>    of the interconnected networks.
>>
>> SUGGESTION: Delete last paragraph as it does not add anything beyond=20
>> what was said in the document.
>
>let's not for now :-)

Then, I suggest to remove the RSVP part.=20

Ciao
Hannes

>
>cheers,
>
>-ken
>
>


From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Jan 15 14:08:38 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0833028C108;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:08:38 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C08728C108
	for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:08:37 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id AA6RlKa17jeo for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:08:36 -0800 (PST)
Received: from co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com
	(co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18FE828C0F4
	for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:08:36 -0800 (PST)
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.37,272,1231131600"; d="scan'208";a="157982944"
Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5])
	by co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com with ESMTP; 15 Jan 2009 17:08:20 -0500
Received: from unknown (HELO 300815ANEX3.global.avaya.com) ([198.152.6.140])
	by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP;
	15 Jan 2009 17:08:20 -0500
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:09:05 -0500
Message-ID: <3036F4A94122BD4AAAAB441FE888452801605C26@300815ANEX3.global.avaya.com>
In-Reply-To: <C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FE676D@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
Thread-Topic: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
Thread-Index: Acl3UYHHveW14oZXSp6ZaQj2iJs7UgAAFYjwAAIR06A=
References: <001701c976ea$ab75aad0$80b5b70a@nsnintra.net><DA976043-F857-45D2-AFB2-5FBC1D54E2A6@g11.org.uk><C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC6582@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net><6382543B-7D30-4705-A77E-686BB9369476@g11.org.uk><C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FC65C9@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net><631E7BDF-E12B-4C7B-B3A9-BB3BD1713D84@g11.org.uk><C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FE66E6@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net><59B6EA27-0120-4DAF-8401-A9041F411F71@g11.org.uk>
	<C41BFCED3C088E40A8510B57B165C162FE676D@FIESEXC007.nsn-intra.net>
From: "Rodrig, Benny (Benny)" <brodrig@avaya.com>
To: "Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)" <hannes.tschofenig@nsn.com>,
	"ext ken carlberg" <carlberg@g11.org.uk>
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>,
	<mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org

Hi Ken,

Hannes's point does make sense to me, that the language of the 2nd
paragraph of section 2.3 is rather strong and can give the wrong
impression that RSVP in particular, and not just good capacity admission
in general, is necessary for this service. =20

Instead, the 1st paragraph of section 2.3 can perhaps be changed along
the lines of the following text:

Support for an Admitted Telephony service class requires, at the UNI,
adequate AAA and capacity admission procedures as described in Section
2.2. This document does not mandate a specific protocol to be used. It
is the belief of the working group that either PHB implementation
described in Section 2.1 is sufficient to provide the services required,
if coupled with such adequate AAA and capacity admission procedures.
Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed between the
relevant networks, and are recommended but not required.

Benny=20

-----Original Message-----
From: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Tschofenig, Hannes (NSN - FI/Espoo)
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 3:47 PM
To: ext ken carlberg
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] draft-ietf-tsvwg-admitted-realtime-dscp-05

Hi Ken,=20

See below.=20

>Hannes,
>
>I always appreciate your determination, but I'm just not convinced by=20
>your arguments :-)....more below...
>
>> Hi Ken,
>>
>> Don't give up so quickly. I know, you are not the author of the=20
>> document but let us look at the text in detail and my proposal for
>> change:
>>
>>
>> 2.3.  Recommendations on implementation of an Admitted Telephony=20
>> Service
>>       Class
>>
>>    It is the belief of the authors that either PHB implementation
>>    described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA
>and capacity
>>    admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are
>sufficient to
>>    provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service
>>    class.
>>
>>
>> CHANGE PROPOSAL:
>> "
>>    It is the belief of the working group that either PHB=20
>> implementation
>>    described in Section 2.1, if coupled with adequate AAA
>and capacity
>>    admission procedures as described in Section 2.2, are
>sufficient to
>>    provide the services required for an Admitted Telephony service
>>    class.
>> "
>>
>> REASON: I hope the working group believes it as well and not
>only the
>> authors.
>
>fine and reasonable change from my perspective.
>
>>    If preemption is required, as described in section 2.3.5.2 of
>>    [RFC4542], this provides the tools for carrying out the
>preemption.
>>    If preemption is not in view, or if used in addition to preemptive
>>    services, the application of different thresholds
>depending on call
>>    precedence has the effect of improving the probability of call
>>    completion by admitting preferred calls at a time that other calls
>>    are being refused.  Routine and priority traffic can be admitted
>>    using the same DSCP value, as the choice of which calls are=20
>> admitted
>>    is handled in the admission procedure executed in the control=20
>> plane,
>>    not the policing of the data plane.
>>
>>    On the point of what protocols and procedures are required for
>>    authentication, authorization, and capacity admission, we
>note that
>>    clear standards do not at this time exist for bandwidth brokers,=20
>> NSIS
>>    has not at this time been finalized and in any event is limited to
>>    unicast sessions, and that RSVP has been standardized and has the
>>    relevant services.  We therefore recommend the use of RSVP at the
>>    UNI.  Procedures at the NNI are business matters to be discussed
>>    between the relevant networks, and are recommended but not=20
>> required.
>>
>> CHANGE PROPOSAL:
>>
>> "
>> As previously noted, the PHB implementation requires the QoS
>resource
>> request triggered from the end device (UNI interface) and the=20
>> subscriber to be authenticated and authorized. Different mechanisms=20
>> are available for conveying the QoS information and also for=20
>> performing the authentication and authorization. This document does=20
>> not mandate a specific protocol to be used.
>> "
>>
>> REASON: The discussion regarding NSIS vs. RSVP is irrelevant
>for this
>> document. The recommendation for RSVP is not necessary in order to=20
>> accomplish the overall goal of this document.
>
>the problem is that you are leaving out the *critical* term of capacity

>admission in your proposed text.  And yes, take that out, and I have no

>qualms in removing references/text concerning NSIS and RSVP.  But,=20
>capacity admission has to be there...its part of the foundation for the

>draft in the first place.

That's in the previous paragraph. I believe that there is no reason to
repeat it again.=20

>
>While the term QoS tends to imply the probable use of capacity=20
>admission, its too broad a term with respect to how you choose to use=20
>it above.  For instance, I can configure filters for a CBQ router to=20
>alter the QoS for certain types of flow and thus influence the QoS=20
>received by those flows, but that effort does not necessarily deal with

>capacity admission.

That's true. Signaling the QoS parameters does not imply capacity
admission control.=20
However, I believe it is covered by the previous paragraph already.=20

>
>> 5.  Security Considerations
>>
>>    A major requirement of this service is effective use of a
>signaling
>>    protocol such as RSVP, with the capabilities to identify its user
>>    either as an individual or as a member of some corporate entity,=20
>> and
>>    assert a policy such as "routine" or "priority".
>>
>>    This capability, one has to believe, will be abused by script=20
>> kiddies
>>    and others if the proof of identity is not adequately strong or if
>>    policies are written or implemented improperly by the carriers.  =20
>> This
>>    goes without saying, but this section is here for it to be said...
>>
>> A question: Is there really a (major) requirement to
>identity the user
>> as individual or as a member of some corporate entity? I would have=20
>> said that there are authentication and authorization requirement but=20
>> not necessarily regarding the membership.
>
>I don't have a strong opinion on this, so I suggest one of the
>co- authors chime in on this.
>
>> 4.  IANA Considerations
>>
>>    This note requests that IANA assign a DSCP value to a second EF
>>    traffic class consistent with [RFC3246] and [RFC3247] in the
>>    "Differentiated Services Field Codepoints" registry.  It
>implements
>>    the Telephony Service Class described in [RFC4594] at lower speeds
>>    and is included in the Real Time Treatment Aggregate [RFC5127] at
>>    higher speeds.  The recommended value for the code point
>is 101100,
>>    paralleling the EF code point, which is 101110.  The code point
>>    should be referred to as VOICE-ADMIT.
>>
>>    This traffic class requires the use of capacity admission such as
>>    RSVP services together with AAA services at the User/Network
>>    Interface (UNI); the use of such services at the NNI is at the=20
>> option
>>    of the interconnected networks.
>>
>> SUGGESTION: Delete last paragraph as it does not add anything beyond=20
>> what was said in the document.
>
>let's not for now :-)

Then, I suggest to remove the RSVP part.=20

Ciao
Hannes

>
>cheers,
>
>-ken
>
>


From lements@alfa.com  Thu Jan 15 17:48:52 2009
Return-Path: <lements@alfa.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AA4B3A67AB
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:48:52 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 1.419
X-Spam-Level: *
X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.419 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888,
	FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395,
	HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	SARE_RECV_SPAM_DOMN0b=1.666, SARE_UNI=0.591, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id PdNxBa6Jur1X
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:48:47 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 125-230-66-45.dynamic.hinet.net (125-230-66-45.dynamic.hinet.net [125.230.66.45])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 34F6C3A63EC
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:48:45 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: News from Microsoft
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090116014846.34F6C3A63EC@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:48:45 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://watchbelieve.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://watchbelieve.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://watchbelieve.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://watchbelieve.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://watchbelieve.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 63888</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From loaugusto@aluservice.com.br  Fri Jan 16 10:33:01 2009
Return-Path: <loaugusto@aluservice.com.br>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C92803A6A4F
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:33:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -41.568
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-41.568 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id KlCgFrgov02K
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:33:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: from cm149.sigma226.maxonline.com.sg (cm149.sigma226.maxonline.com.sg [218.212.226.149])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2FBD83A69D8
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:32:58 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Message 40458
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090116183300.2FBD83A69D8@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:32:58 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1250">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://plainrise.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://plainrise.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://plainrise.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://plainrise.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://plainrise.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 49422</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From klass@accord.com.tw  Fri Jan 16 12:49:40 2009
Return-Path: <klass@accord.com.tw>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 552063A693A
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:49:40 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -42.544
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-42.544 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id mYI8fcx4TvuK
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:49:39 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 66-50-172-91.prtc.net (adsl-64-237-173-49.prtc.net [64.237.173.49])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 83B5F3A6808
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:49:37 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: News from Microsoft
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090116204938.83B5F3A6808@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:49:37 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://plainrise.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://plainrise.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://plainrise.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://plainrise.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://plainrise.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 12638</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From mullerqluzcolleague@ama-assn.org  Fri Jan 16 18:30:21 2009
Return-Path: <mullerqluzcolleague@ama-assn.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FC2A3A6A7E
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:30:21 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -16.75
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RDNS_NONE=0.1, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083,
	URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id QcvYXxCDZ8OI
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:30:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from agemont.it (unknown [189.121.76.53])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 1C6093A69DD
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:30:14 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: News from Microsoft
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090117023018.1C6093A69DD@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:30:14 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1250">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://prettycontrol.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://prettycontrol.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://prettycontrol.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://prettycontrol.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://prettycontrol.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 49513</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From lcooleyh@alperservices.com  Fri Jan 16 22:21:02 2009
Return-Path: <lcooleyh@alperservices.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 015893A6820
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:21:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -8.139
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.139 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id tYBC+wK0UXdm
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:21:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ppp-58-9-16-30.revip2.asianet.co.th (ppp-58-9-16-30.revip2.asianet.co.th [58.9.16.30])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E6AF33A6843
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:20:59 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Order status 32311
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090117062059.E6AF33A6843@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:20:59 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://eastfollow.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://eastfollow.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://eastfollow.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://eastfollow.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://eastfollow.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 37912</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From oorsteppedstraggliest@abacusinfo.com  Sat Jan 17 11:13:52 2009
Return-Path: <oorsteppedstraggliest@abacusinfo.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7FD73A69C2
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:13:52 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -17.113
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.113 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_28=1.561,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033,
	RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083,
	URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id Dxf2PjG+NreS
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:13:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from host86-151-179-122.range86-151.btcentralplus.com (host86-151-179-122.range86-151.btcentralplus.com [86.151.179.122])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BDB703A6813
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:13:48 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Pfizer Admin
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090117191348.BDB703A6813@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:13:48 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
</HEAD>
<BODY>      <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" width="728">
         <tr>
            <td style="padding-top: 15px;">January 16, 2009 |
                <font color="#336699">"SPECIAL OFFERS"-Pfizer  Company!</font><br>
                                <img src="http://www.cbsnews.com/common/images/email/summary/header_summary.gif" vspace="3" width="366" height="55">
                                </td>
         </tr>
      </table>
      <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
         <tr>
            <td valign="top">
               <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" width="726">
                  <tr>
                     <td style="padding: 10px 12px;">
                        <div style="border-top: 0; padding: 0; margin-bottom: 12px;">
                                                        <blockquote>
                                                                <p align="left"><br>
                                                                <a href="http://meatthough.com/"><img border="0" src="http://skyintuition.com/10.gif"></a></p>
                                                        </blockquote>
                                                </div>
                        <div style="font-size: 11px; margin-left: 10px;"><br></div>
                                                <img src="http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/common/images/transp.gif" width="10" height="10"></td>
                  </tr>
               </table>
            </td>
         </tr>
      </table><br><table width="728" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
         <tr>
            <td style="font-size: 11px;">
                Contact: Email Administrator,  Pfizer World Headquarters 064 E. 42nd Street  New York, NY 08604
                <br>®  2001-2009 Pfizer Inc. All rights reserved!
                <br><b>Pfizer is a licensee of the TRUSTe Privacy Program!, 
                                <a href="http://formstrength.com/">click here</a>.</b><br><br><span style="font-size: 14px; color: #69C;">»</span>
                <a href="http://wisdomelse.com/">Help</a>
                 <span style="font-size: 14px; color: #69C;">»</span><a href="http://teachpresent.com/">Advertise</a>
                 <span style="font-size: 14px; color: #69C;">»</span><a href="http://realizationraise.com/">Terms of Service</a>
                 <span style="font-size: 14px; color: #69C;">»</span><a href="http://realizationraise.com/">Privacy Policy</a></td>
</tr></table></BODY></HTML>


From krispygoose@abspc.com  Sat Jan 17 13:02:36 2009
Return-Path: <krispygoose@abspc.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE7313A67B5
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:02:36 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -20.281
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-20.281 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_EQ_PL=1.135, HOST_EQ_PL=1.95, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_UNI=0.591,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id lb8bAZ-3mOlR
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:02:34 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 2.wod.airbites.pl (2.wod.airbites.pl [91.146.224.9])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3B7153A67AC
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:02:32 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Order status 26498
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090117210233.3B7153A67AC@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:02:32 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://believeour.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://believeour.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://believeour.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://believeour.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://believeour.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 31655</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From karenfnn@alsa-national.org  Sat Jan 17 23:48:08 2009
Return-Path: <karenfnn@alsa-national.org>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1CC23A6810
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:48:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.592
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.592 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768,
	HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_28=1.561,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id vYMt4Hz0n-V7
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:48:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from cpc2-hatf2-0-0-cust511.lutn.cable.ntl.com (cpc2-hatf2-0-0-cust511.lutn.cable.ntl.com [82.10.78.0])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2C9E03A67B3
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:48:06 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: SPECIAL OFFERS
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090118074807.2C9E03A67B3@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:48:06 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
</HEAD>
<BODY>      <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" width="728">
         <tr>
            <td style="padding-top: 15px;">January 16, 2009 |
                <font color="#336699">"SPECIAL OFFERS"-Pfizer  Company!</font><br>
                                <img src="http://www.cbsnews.com/common/images/email/summary/header_summary.gif" vspace="3" width="366" height="55">
                                </td>
         </tr>
      </table>
      <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
         <tr>
            <td valign="top">
               <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" width="726">
                  <tr>
                     <td style="padding: 10px 12px;">
                        <div style="border-top: 0; padding: 0; margin-bottom: 12px;">
                                                        <blockquote>
                                                                <p align="left"><br>
                                                                <a href="http://themchick.com/"><img border="0" src="http://hatbroad.com/10.gif"></a></p>
                                                        </blockquote>
                                                </div>
                        <div style="font-size: 11px; margin-left: 10px;"><br></div>
                                                <img src="http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/common/images/transp.gif" width="10" height="10"></td>
                  </tr>
               </table>
            </td>
         </tr>
      </table><br><table width="728" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
         <tr>
            <td style="font-size: 11px;">
                Contact: Email Administrator,  Pfizer World Headquarters 787 E. 42nd Street  New York, NY 29322
                <br>®  2001-2009 Pfizer Inc. All rights reserved!
                <br><b>Pfizer is a licensee of the TRUSTe Privacy Program!, 
                                <a href="http://skyintuition.com/">click here</a>.</b><br><br><span style="font-size: 14px; color: #69C;">»</span>
                <a href="http://wisdomelse.com/">Help</a>
                 <span style="font-size: 14px; color: #69C;">»</span><a href="http://teachpresent.com/">Advertise</a>
                 <span style="font-size: 14px; color: #69C;">»</span><a href="http://hatbroad.com/">Terms of Service</a>
                 <span style="font-size: 14px; color: #69C;">»</span><a href="http://formstrength.com/">Privacy Policy</a></td>
</tr></table></BODY></HTML>


From jmwalsho@aliroo.com  Sun Jan 18 05:48:52 2009
Return-Path: <jmwalsho@aliroo.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E1DA3A685E
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:48:52 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.675
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.675 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_28=1.561, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033,
	RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083,
	URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id 7atm+MO4xVMG
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:48:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: from dslb-092-072-160-008.pools.arcor-ip.net (dslb-092-072-160-008.pools.arcor-ip.net [92.72.160.8])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C994A3A679C
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:48:49 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Pfizer Admin
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090118134849.C994A3A679C@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:48:49 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY>      <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" width="728">
         <tr>
            <td style="padding-top: 15px;">January 16, 2009 |
                <font color="#336699">"SPECIAL OFFERS"-Pfizer  Company!</font><br>
                                <img src="http://www.cbsnews.com/common/images/email/summary/header_summary.gif" vspace="3" width="366" height="55">
                                </td>
         </tr>
      </table>
      <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
         <tr>
            <td valign="top">
               <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" width="726">
                  <tr>
                     <td style="padding: 10px 12px;">
                        <div style="border-top: 0; padding: 0; margin-bottom: 12px;">
                                                        <blockquote>
                                                                <p align="left"><br>
                                                                <a href="http://formstrength.com/"><img border="0" src="http://meatthough.com/10.gif"></a></p>
                                                        </blockquote>
                                                </div>
                        <div style="font-size: 11px; margin-left: 10px;"><br></div>
                                                <img src="http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/common/images/transp.gif" width="10" height="10"></td>
                  </tr>
               </table>
            </td>
         </tr>
      </table><br><table width="728" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
         <tr>
            <td style="font-size: 11px;">
                Contact: Email Administrator,  Pfizer World Headquarters 062 E. 42nd Street  New York, NY 42208
                <br>®  2001-2009 Pfizer Inc. All rights reserved!
                <br><b>Pfizer is a licensee of the TRUSTe Privacy Program!, 
                                <a href="http://themchick.com/">click here</a>.</b><br><br><span style="font-size: 14px; color: #69C;">»</span>
                <a href="http://wisdomelse.com/">Help</a>
                 <span style="font-size: 14px; color: #69C;">»</span><a href="http://realizationraise.com/">Advertise</a>
                 <span style="font-size: 14px; color: #69C;">»</span><a href="http://hatbroad.com/">Terms of Service</a>
                 <span style="font-size: 14px; color: #69C;">»</span><a href="http://traditioncheck.com/">Privacy Policy</a></td>
</tr></table></BODY></HTML>


From mandolinintricacy@acuster.com  Sun Jan 18 23:24:46 2009
Return-Path: <mandolinintricacy@acuster.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A4A28C16C
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 23:24:46 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -42.363
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-42.363 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DNS_FROM_RFC_BOGUSMX=1.482, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HELO_EQ_PL=1.135, HOST_EQ_PL=1.95,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id VE3c9TpLzaut
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Sun, 18 Jan 2009 23:24:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ats106.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl (ats106.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl [83.27.0.106])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4502E28C107
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 23:24:42 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Order status 58592
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090119072444.4502E28C107@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 23:24:42 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://oftengenerosity.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://oftengenerosity.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://oftengenerosity.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://oftengenerosity.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://oftengenerosity.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 32569</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From jlrd@accessvt.com  Mon Jan 19 05:02:50 2009
Return-Path: <jlrd@accessvt.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 128033A67FD
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:02:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -13.066
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.066 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526,
	HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, SARE_UNI=0.591,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id Tg0vDlpXrzlw
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:02:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 5ac08cb2.bb.sky.com (5ac08cb2.bb.sky.com [90.192.140.178])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 451903A67E5
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:02:47 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your order 92495
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090119130248.451903A67E5@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:02:47 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://placescale.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://placescale.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://placescale.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://placescale.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://placescale.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 11572</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From nabashir@altuwairqi.com  Mon Jan 19 09:48:41 2009
Return-Path: <nabashir@altuwairqi.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD49E28C0F7
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:48:41 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.95
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.95 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888,
	FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129,
	HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877,
	RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id 6JHkC9aS8QBT
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:48:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 201-25-182-170.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br (201-25-182-170.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [201.25.182.170])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D8A693A698C
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:48:37 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Administrator
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090119174838.D8A693A698C@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:48:37 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#B1B1B1"><div style="padding: 20px 20px 40px 20px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
<table width="450" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center" bgcolor="#ffffff">
        <tr>
<td style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px; font-family:'Trebuchet MS', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:20px; color:#000000;" > 
We ship Worldwide! To all countries! To all destinations!</td>
        </tr>
        <tr>            <td style="padding:10px 0px 30px 0px;">
<div style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px;">
	<div style="border-top:5px solid #666666; padding-top:10px;  font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:10px; color:#666666;">
<a href="http://casechair.com/"><img src="http://casechair.com/sdjbvsj.gif" alt="Not see a picture? Click Here!" border="0" 
class="featureImage" style="padding:100px 100px 100px 100px;" /></a>
	</div> </td>
        </tr>

        <tr>
                <td style="padding:20px 10px 10px 0px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please log in to www.casechair.com, click on "My Account", 
								click "Update" to edit your registration details and uncheck the "Receive Newsletter?" check box.<br>
                                Or unsubscribe at
                                <a href="http://casechair.com/faq.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">http://methoddegree.com/faq.php</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                <a href="http://casechair.com/privacy_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Privacy Statement</a>  |
                                <a href="http://casechair.com/shipping_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Terms &amp; Conditions</a>  |
                                <a href="http://casechair.com/contacts.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Contact</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                BRANDKEYWORD Ltd.<br>
                                Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 0, B221. 964 Clements Road. London. SE87 7DG
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                &copy; 2006-2008 BRANDKEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved
                        </p></td> </tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From nutrition@africaonline.co.zw  Mon Jan 19 13:24:15 2009
Return-Path: <nutrition@africaonline.co.zw>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A7B83A68AF
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:24:15 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 4.658
X-Spam-Level: ****
X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.658 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888,
	FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BLUEYON=1.4,
	HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20,
	URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083,
	URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id ans6wD11Q41i
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:24:14 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 82-34-221-91.cable.ubr03.gill.blueyonder.co.uk (82-34-221-91.cable.ubr03.gill.blueyonder.co.uk [82.34.221.91])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8F9873A6808
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:24:10 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: News from Microsoft
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090119212413.8F9873A6808@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:24:10 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://areasimilar.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://areasimilar.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://areasimilar.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://areasimilar.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://areasimilar.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 83889</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From kb49er8@alphawest.com.au  Mon Jan 19 16:01:10 2009
Return-Path: <kb49er8@alphawest.com.au>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03DA3A67DF
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:01:10 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 2.965
X-Spam-Level: **
X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.965 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597,
	FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888,
	FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.526, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,
	HTML_SHORT_LINK_IMG_2=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	SARE_UNI=0.591, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10,
	URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id UfWHwUzgvcYr
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:01:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 189-54-18-65-nd.cpe.vivax.com.br (189-54-18-65-nd.cpe.vivax.com.br [189.54.18.65])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 174BE28C19E
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:01:08 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Message 50175
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090120000109.174BE28C19E@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:01:08 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=600 align=center>
<tr><td class=EC_container bgcolor="#efefef">
<table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr>
<td><div align=center> <a href="http://areasimilar.com/" target="_blank">
<img src="http://areasimilar.com/brgfd.jpg" border=0 alt="Go To Site Now!"></a></div>
</td></tr><tr><td class=EC_legal>
<strong>About this mailing: </strong><br>
You are receiving this e-mail because you subscribed to MSN Featured Offers. 
Microsoft respects your privacy. If you do not wish to receive this MSN Featured Offers e-mail, please click the "Unsubscribe" link below. 
This will not unsubscribe you from e-mail communications from third-party advertisers that may appear in MSN Feature Offers. 
This shall not constitute an offer by MSN. MSN shall not be responsible or liable for the advertisers' content nor any of the goods or service
 advertised. Prices and item availability subject to change without notice.
 <br><br>c2008 Microsoft | <a href="http://areasimilar.com/" target="_blank">Unsubscribe</a> | 
<a href="http://areasimilar.com/" target="_blank">More Newsletters</a> | <a href="http://areasimilar.com/" target="_blank">Privacy</a><br><br>
Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 89114</td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>


From jconel@aiu.edu  Mon Jan 19 18:15:28 2009
Return-Path: <jconel@aiu.edu>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915C53A6A78
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:15:28 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -40.054
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-40.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5
	tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, GB_I_LETTER=-2,
	HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_DYNAMIC=1.144,
	HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5,
	RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5,
	RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905,
	RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1,
	URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32])
	by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
	with ESMTP id onKen0Lz4O5j
	for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>;
	Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:15:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from h238.59.91.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net (h238.59.91.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net [75.91.59.238])
	by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 16E813A698E
	for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:15:21 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: BRANDKEYWORD, Ltd
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090120021523.16E813A698E@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:15:21 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#B1B1B1"><div style="padding: 20px 20px 40px 20px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
<table width="450" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center" bgcolor="#ffffff">
        <tr>
<td style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px; font-family:'Trebuchet MS', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:20px; color:#000000;" > 
We ship Worldwide! To all countries! To all destinations!</td>
        </tr>
        <tr>            <td style="padding:10px 0px 30px 0px;">
<div style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px;">
	<div style="border-top:5px solid #666666; padding-top:10px;  font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:10px; color:#666666;">
<a href="http://harmonymind.com/"><img src="http://harmonymind.com/sdjbvsj.gif" alt="Dont see a picture? Click Here!" border="0" 
class="featureImage" style="padding:100px 100px 100px 100px;" /></a>
	</div> </td>
        </tr>

        <tr>
                <td style="padding:20px 10px 10px 0px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please log in to www.harmonymind.com, click on "My Account", 
								click "Update" to edit your registration details and uncheck the "Receive Newsletter?" check box.<br>
                                Or unsubscribe at
                                <a href="http://harmonymind.com/faq.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">http://harmonymind.com/faq.php</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                <a href="http://harmonymind.com/privacy_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Privacy Statement</a>  |
                                <a href="http://harmonymind.com/shipping_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Terms &amp; Conditions</a>  |
                                <a href="http://harmonymind.com/contacts.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Contact</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                BRANDKEYWORD Ltd.<br>
                                Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 6, B881. 680 Clements Road. London. SE88 1DG
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                &copy; 2006-2008 BRANDKEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved
                        </p></td> </tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>



From joseph@allends.com  Wed Jan 21 10:12:31 2009
Return-Path: <joseph@allends.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE09F3A69BB for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:12:31 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.691
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.691 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RP50qwfSAHwT for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:12:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 119-59-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net (119-59-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net [91.124.59.119]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2DEEA3A69B7 for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:12:27 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Message from President
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090121181229.2DEEA3A69B7@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:12:27 -0800 (PST) <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1250">
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#B1B1B1"><div style="padding: 20px 20px 40px 20px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
<table width="450" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center" bgcolor="#ffffff">
        <tr>
<td style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px; font-family:'Trebuchet MS', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:20px; color:#000000;" > 
We ship Worldwide! To all countries! To all destinations!</td>
        </tr>
        <tr>            <td style="padding:10px 0px 30px 0px;">
<div style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px;">
	<div style="border-top:5px solid #666666; padding-top:10px;  font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:10px; color:#666666;">
<a href="http://cloudachievement.com/"><img src="http://cloudachievement.com/sdjbvsj.gif" alt="Cant see a picture? Click Here!" border="0" 
class="featureImage" style="padding:100px 100px 100px 100px;" /></a>
	</div> </td>
        </tr>

        <tr>
                <td style="padding:20px 10px 10px 0px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please log in to www.cloudachievement.com, click on "My Account", 
								click "Update" to edit your registration details and uncheck the "Receive Newsletter?" check box.<br>
                                Or unsubscribe at
                                <a href="http://cloudachievement.com/faq.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">http://cloudachievement.com/faq.php</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                <a href="http://cloudachievement.com/privacy_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Privacy Statement</a>  |
                                <a href="http://cloudachievement.com/shipping_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Terms &amp; Conditions</a>  |
                                <a href="http://cloudachievement.com/contacts.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Contact</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                BRANDKEYWORD Ltd.<br>
                                Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 4, B650. 446 Clements Road. London. SE44 4DG
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                &copy; 2006-2008 BRANDKEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved
                        </p></td> </tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>

From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Jan 21 11:59:59 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 274CC28C0E1; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:59:59 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50A283A68CD; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:59:58 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 1.72
X-Spam-Level: *
X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.469, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MszsVJwyvudR; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:59:57 -0800 (PST)
Received: from WOTAN.TR-Sys.de (gateway.tr-sys.de [213.178.172.147]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AC053A6A47; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:59:56 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ZEUS.TR-Sys.de by w. with ESMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.26 $/16.3) id AA294427876; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:57:56 +0100
Received: (from ah@localhost) by z.TR-Sys.de (8.9.3 (PHNE_25183)/8.7.3) id UAA02570; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:57:51 +0100 (MEZ)
From: Alfred =?hp-roman8?B?SM5uZXM=?= <ah@tr-sys.de>
Message-Id: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de>
To: iesg@ietf.org
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 20:57:51 +0100 (MEZ)
X-Mailer: ELM [$Revision: 1.17.214.3 $]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=hp-roman8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: [Tsvwg] API related DISCUSS for draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org Hello,

I stumbled over the mid-December IESG deliberations regarding the
I-D after LC, draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto, and got stuck at the DISCUSS
position in favor of an API specification in the draft.

I have serious concerns with that position.

For the most part, the IETF has refrained from doing that entirely,
and when it indeed dealt with specifying APIs, it was based on
implementation experience.

The still not finalized SCTP socket API spec story seems to
support my observation that strong feedback from implementations
and use cases can have an important impact on the details of an
API specification, its resulting versatility, and its acceptance.

Externally visible behavior has traditionally been specified first,
giving the API time to evolve.  Therefore, I strongly suggest to *not*
add the specification of a concrete extension of the sockets API (in
support of TCP-UTO) to the draft under consideration, at this stage.

This topic should be re-visited when, at some time in the future,
a revised document targeting at Draft Standard for TCP-UTO might
be considered.


Kind regards,
  Alfred HÎnes.

-- 

+------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
| TR-Sys Alfred Hoenes   |  Alfred Hoenes   Dipl.-Math., Dipl.-Phys.  |
| Gerlinger Strasse 12   |  Phone: (+49)7156/9635-0, Fax: -18         |
| D-71254  Ditzingen     |  E-Mail:  ah@TR-Sys.de                     |
+------------------------+--------------------------------------------+


From mbusquet@almirall.es  Wed Jan 21 13:16:13 2009
Return-Path: <mbusquet@almirall.es>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA173A6AC5 for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:16:13 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -34.974
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-34.974 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_DIALIN=3.384, HELO_EQ_DIP_DIALIN=1.573, HOST_EQ_DIP_TDIAL=2.144, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_UNA=1.231, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ROaqW0wEz2b for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:16:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: from p5B21E540.dip.t-dialin.net (p5B21E540.dip.t-dialin.net [91.33.229.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 864963A679C for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:16:10 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: For Our Users: Exclusive Jan Offer
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090121211611.864963A679C@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:16:10 -0800 (PST) <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
</HEAD>
<BODY><table width="600" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1" bgcolor="#d8d8d8"><tr><td>
<table width="600" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
  <tr>
   <td ><table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
 width="600"> 
	  <tr>
	   <td bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><img
 src="http://ads1.msn.com/ads/pronws/CIQ4440/images/asus_r11_c1.jpg"
 width="14" height="184" border="0" alt=""></td>
	   <td width="568" height="174" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<a href="http://appreciationforest.com/"><br><img border="0" alt="Do not see a picture? Visit our site now!" 
src="http://appreciationforest.com/79fdsgs1.gif"></a>
	   </td>
	   <td bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><img
 src="http://ads1.msn.com/ads/pronws/CIQ4440/images/asus_r11_c15.jpg"
 width="18" height="184" border="0" alt=""></td>
	  </tr>
	</table></td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
   <td><table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
 width="600">
	  <tr>
	   <td bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><img
 src="http://ads1.msn.com/ads/pronws/CIQ4440/images/asus_r11_c1.jpg"
 width="14" height="184" border="0" alt=""></td>
	   <td width="568" height="174" bgcolor="#ffffff">
	   <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"
 style="color:#000000; font-size:10px"><br>*Offer expires January 31,
 2009.<br><br>

As a valued Windows Live Hotmail customer, we hope you find this
 Windows Vista Ultimate offer valuable. If you would prefer to no longer
 receive promotional offers about Windows Vista Ultimate please click <a
 href="http://appreciationforest.com/privacy_policy.php" target="_blank">here</a>.   <br>
<br>
For general information about how to manage your Communication
 Preferences with Microsoft please click <a
 href="http://appreciationforest.com/" target="_blank">here</a>. 

<br>
<br>
If you have questions about Microsoft privacy policies, please read our
 online <a href="http://appreciationforest.com/privacy_policy.php"
 target="_blank">Privacy Statement</a>. <br>
<br>
Opting out of Microsoft e-mail offers will not affect any newsletters
 you have requested nor restrict important customer communications
 concerning your Microsoft products.<br>
<br>
Microsoft Corporation <br>
One Microsoft Way <br>
Redmond, WA 97757<br>
<br>
<br>
	   </font>
	   </td>
	   <td bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><img
 src="http://ads1.msn.com/ads/pronws/CIQ4440/images/asus_r11_c15.jpg"
 width="18" height="184" border="0" alt=""></td>
	  </tr>
	</table></td>
  </tr>
</table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table>
</body>
<br>..<br><font size="1" face="arial,helvetica">Message-Id:
 &lt;20098037799905.6F1D.45163058-4731@cimail17.msn.com&gt;</font>
<br>
<img src="http://cimail15.msn.com/images/blankpixel.gif/Key=5806.Cnx7n..D.JpQ9LD"></BODY></HTML>

From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Jan 21 15:11:19 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43F7E3A68E4; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:11:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A7E33A68E4 for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:11:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.249
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6PpgCEDtOjGY for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:11:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from amailer.gwdg.de (amailer.gwdg.de [134.76.10.18]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 046A13A687A for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:11:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from dsl54026089.pool.t-online.hu ([84.2.96.137] helo=[192.168.1.101]) by mailer.gwdg.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <fu@cs.uni-goettingen.de>) id 1LPmDr-0002r5-Ck for tsvwg@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:10:59 +0100
Message-ID: <4977AC9E.7040401@cs.uni-goettingen.de>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:15:42 +0100
From: Xiaoming Fu <fu@cs.uni-goettingen.de>
Organization: University of Goettingen, Germany
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: tsvwg@ietf.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Authenticated: Id:xfu
X-Virus-Scanned: (clean) by exiscan+sophie
Subject: [Tsvwg] Call for papers: ICNP 2009
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org [Sincere apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP.]

                          CALL FOR PAPERS
                             ICNP 2009
        17th IEEE International Conference on Network Protocols
                       October 13-16, 2009
                    Princeton, New Jersey, USA
                  http://www.ieee-icnp.org/2009

ICNP, the IEEE International Conference on Network Protocols is the
premier conference covering all aspects of network protocols. ICNP will
be held in its seventeenth year at Princeton, New Jersey from October
13-16th, 2009. Papers with significant research contributions on network
protocols are solicited for submission. Papers related to all aspects of
network protocols including design, implementation, analysis,
performance and specification are relevant. Papers must not be
previously published nor under review in any other conference or
journal. Only original papers that have not been published previously or
submitted for publication and under review by another conference or
journal elsewhere can be submitted. Papers containing plagiarized
material will be subject to the IEEE Plagiarism policy and will be
rejected without review. Topics of interest include, but are not limited to:
• Protocol design, implementation, testing and analysis.
• Measurement studies of protocol performance.
• Protocols for wireless ad hoc and sensor networks.
• Protocols for peer-to-peer networks.
• Protocols for specific functions such as routing, flow/congestion
control, network management.
• Protocols for security, survivability and fault-tolerance.

Papers must be directly relevant to protocols. Papers on general
networking where protocols are only a secondary focus will be considered
only if they are of exceptionally high quality.

Papers will be subject to a double-blind review process. The identity of
authors and referees will not be revealed to each other. To ensure blind
reviewing, the authors' names and affiliations should not appear in the
paper. Bibliographic references should protect the authors' anonymity.
Papers should adhere to the IEEE format and should not be more than 10
pages. The font size should not be smaller than 10pt.  Further
instructions will be posted on the ICNP website
(http://www.ieee-icnp.org/2009).

Authors of accepted papers will be expected to register for the
conference and the paper must be presented at the conference in order
for the paper to appear in the conference proceedings.

Important Dates:
Abstract Submission:        April 10, 2009 8:59 P.M. EDT
Paper Submission:           April 17, 2009 8:59 P.M. EDT (Hard Deadline)
Notification of Acceptance: July  28, 2009
Camera Ready Version Due:   September 4, 2009

Organizing Committee:

Executive Committee:
David Lee                   Ohio State University, USA (Chair)
Mostafa Ammar               Georgia Tech. USA
Ken Calvert                 University of Kentucky, USA
Teruo Higashino             Osaka University, Japan
Raymond Miller              University of Maryland, USA

General Chairs:
K.K. Ramakrishnan           AT & T Labs Research, USA
Henning Schulzrinne         Columbia University, USA

Program Chairs:
Timothy Griffin             University of Cambridge, U.K.
Srikanth V. Krishnamurthy   University of California, Riverside, USA

For more details, visit the conference webpage:
http://www.ieee-icnp.org/2009

Regards,
Xiaoming Fu
IEEE ICNP'09 Publicity Chair




From lob96jm@acrosscare.com  Thu Jan 22 07:31:03 2009
Return-Path: <lob96jm@acrosscare.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 096353A6829 for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:31:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.669
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.669 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_EQ_MODEMCABLE=0.768, HOST_EQ_MODEMCABLE=1.368, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e8vJ0XY7RqlQ for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:31:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: from cm-93-156-73-195.telecable.es (cm-93-156-73-195.telecable.es [93.156.73.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3FB493A6886 for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:30:59 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Payment Accepted!
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090122153101.3FB493A6886@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:30:59 -0800 (PST) <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#B1B1B1"><div style="padding: 20px 20px 40px 20px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
<table width="450" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center" bgcolor="#ffffff">
        <tr>
<td style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px; font-family:'Trebuchet MS', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:20px; color:#000000;" > 
We ship Worldwide! To all countries! To all destinations!</td>
        </tr>
        <tr>            <td style="padding:10px 0px 30px 0px;">
<div style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px;">
	<div style="border-top:5px solid #666666; padding-top:10px;  font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:10px; color:#666666;">
<a href="http://witguess.com/"><img src="http://witguess.com/sdjbvsj.gif" alt="Cant see a picture? Click Here!" border="0" 
class="featureImage" style="padding:100px 100px 100px 100px;" /></a>
	</div> </td>
        </tr>

        <tr>
                <td style="padding:20px 10px 10px 0px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please log in to www.witguess.com, click on "My Account", 
								click "Update" to edit your registration details and uncheck the "Receive Newsletter?" check box.<br>
                                Or unsubscribe at
                                <a href="http://witguess.com/faq.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">http://witguess.com/faq.php</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                <a href="http://witguess.com/privacy_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Privacy Statement</a>  |
                                <a href="http://witguess.com/shipping_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Terms &amp; Conditions</a>  |
                                <a href="http://witguess.com/contacts.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Contact</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                BRANDKEYWORD Ltd.<br>
                                Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 6, B665. 470 Clements Road. London. SE68 6DG
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                &copy; 2006-2008 BRANDKEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved
                        </p></td> </tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>

From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Jan 22 09:19:08 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D73B43A695B; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:19:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A86528C1E3; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:54:32 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.613
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.613 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.167, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v+ybsvir6+oe; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:54:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: from sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (sca-es-mail-2.Sun.COM [192.18.43.133]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553E83A6954; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:54:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-2.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n0MGs85T000970; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:54:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0KDV00501T1ENU00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Chris.Newman@Sun.COM); Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:54:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.1.110.5] by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0KDV004K0TM5IB90@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:54:08 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:54:05 -0800
From: Chris Newman <Chris.Newman@Sun.COM>
In-reply-to: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de>
To: Alfred H?nes <ah@tr-sys.de>, iesg@ietf.org
Message-id: <1FFDE2586B687DAD64427796@446E7922C82D299DB29D899F>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-disposition: inline
References: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de>
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:19:07 -0800
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] API related DISCUSS for draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org I absolutely agree with your position except the statement about the IETF 
refraining from APIs (we have done APIs such as getaddrinfo, advanced 
sockets, LDAP C API, GSSAPI, etc).  If you read my discuss position, I am 
not asking for inclusion of the API in this spec, but I am asking for the 
specification to be revised to either:

* Make it clear the intention is to have communication of this information 
between
  application protocol implementations and the TCP stack.
* Have an informative reference to the forum where API development is 
occurring so such
  communication can become possible in real world implementations rather 
than prototypes.

  or

* Make it clear this is implemented only in the TCP stack and applications 
are not involved.

		- Chris

--On January 21, 2009 20:57:51 +0100 "Alfred H?nes" <ah@tr-sys.de> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I stumbled over the mid-December IESG deliberations regarding the
> I-D after LC, draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto, and got stuck at the DISCUSS
> position in favor of an API specification in the draft.
>
> I have serious concerns with that position.
>
> For the most part, the IETF has refrained from doing that entirely,
> and when it indeed dealt with specifying APIs, it was based on
> implementation experience.
>
> The still not finalized SCTP socket API spec story seems to
> support my observation that strong feedback from implementations
> and use cases can have an important impact on the details of an
> API specification, its resulting versatility, and its acceptance.
>
> Externally visible behavior has traditionally been specified first,
> giving the API time to evolve.  Therefore, I strongly suggest to *not*
> add the specification of a concrete extension of the sockets API (in
> support of TCP-UTO) to the draft under consideration, at this stage.
>
> This topic should be re-visited when, at some time in the future,
> a revised document targeting at Draft Standard for TCP-UTO might
> be considered.
>
>
> Kind regards,
>   Alfred H?nes.


From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Jan 22 09:19:09 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2190028C247; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:19:09 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4736428C246; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -5.603
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.603 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.157, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 91ZbmvOjaauV; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (sca-es-mail-1.Sun.COM [192.18.43.132]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 264FC3A68D0; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from fe-sfbay-10.sun.com ([192.18.43.129]) by sca-es-mail-1.sun.com (8.13.7+Sun/8.12.9) with ESMTP id n0MHGNmo012591; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: from conversion-daemon.fe-sfbay-10.sun.com by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) id <0KDV00D01UJQ0T00@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com> (original mail from Chris.Newman@Sun.COM); Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:23 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.1.110.5] by fe-sfbay-10.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-8.04 (built Feb 28 2007)) with ESMTPSA id <0KDV0049HUN8IBB0@fe-sfbay-10.sun.com>; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:22 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:16:20 -0800
From: Chris Newman <Chris.Newman@Sun.COM>
In-reply-to: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de>
To: Alfred H?nes <ah@tr-sys.de>, iesg@ietf.org
Message-id: <B034B9C57DB9038977D5454F@446E7922C82D299DB29D899F>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-disposition: inline
References: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de>
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:19:07 -0800
Cc: tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] API related DISCUSS for draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org I just saw version 11 show up, and I believe the new section 5 addressed my 
concern.  I do hope those interested in getting this deployed in 
applications will engage the implementers to help avoid deployment of 
disjoint API variants among Posix/socket API systems.

		- Chris

--On January 21, 2009 20:57:51 +0100 "Alfred H?nes" <ah@tr-sys.de> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I stumbled over the mid-December IESG deliberations regarding the
> I-D after LC, draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto, and got stuck at the DISCUSS
> position in favor of an API specification in the draft.
>
> I have serious concerns with that position.
>
> For the most part, the IETF has refrained from doing that entirely,
> and when it indeed dealt with specifying APIs, it was based on
> implementation experience.
>
> The still not finalized SCTP socket API spec story seems to
> support my observation that strong feedback from implementations
> and use cases can have an important impact on the details of an
> API specification, its resulting versatility, and its acceptance.
>
> Externally visible behavior has traditionally been specified first,
> giving the API time to evolve.  Therefore, I strongly suggest to *not*
> add the specification of a concrete extension of the sockets API (in
> support of TCP-UTO) to the draft under consideration, at this stage.
>
> This topic should be re-visited when, at some time in the future,
> a revised document targeting at Draft Standard for TCP-UTO might
> be considered.
>
> Kind regards,
>   Alfred H?nes.


From marpereira@abril.com.br  Thu Jan 22 23:01:42 2009
Return-Path: <marpereira@abril.com.br>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B3193A68D4 for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:01:42 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -40.954
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-40.954 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.167, BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qnHv0DDoeMsE for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:01:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from admin.spamcop.net (unknown [125.160.49.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A86FB3A6941 for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:01:34 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: RECOVERY: H14252 is OK
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090123070137.A86FB3A6941@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:01:34 -0800 (PST) <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#e2e2e2"><div style="padding: 20px 20px 40px 20px; background-color:#e2e2e2;">
<table width="450" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center" bgcolor="#ffffff">
        <tr>
<td style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px; font-family:'Trebuchet MS', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:20px; color:#000000;" > 
We ship Worldwide! To all countries! To all destinations!</td>
        </tr>
        <tr>            <td style="padding:10px 0px 30px 0px;">
<div style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px;">
	<div style="border-top:5px solid #666666; padding-top:10px;  font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:10px; color:#666666;">
<a href="http://bornrealization.com/"><img src="http://bornrealization.com/dirpic1.gif" alt="Click Here!" border="0" 
class="featureImage" style="padding:100px 100px 100px 100px;" /></a>
	</div> </td>
        </tr>

        <tr>
                <td style="padding:20px 10px 10px 0px; background-color:#e2e2e2;">
                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please log in to www.bornrealization.com, click on "My Account", 
								click "Update" to edit your registration details and uncheck the "Receive Newsletter?" check box.<br>
                                Or unsubscribe at
                                <a href="http://bornrealization.com/faq.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">http://bornrealization.com/faq.php</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                <a href="http://bornrealization.com/privacy_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Privacy Statement</a>  |
                                <a href="http://bornrealization.com/shipping_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Terms &amp; Conditions</a>  |
                                <a href="http://bornrealization.com/contacts.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Contact</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                BRANDKEYWORD Ltd.<br>
                                Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 2, B271. 534 Clements Road. London. SE47 4DG
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                &copy; 2006-2009 BRANDKEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved
                        </p></td> </tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>

From mechling@allied-brokers.com  Thu Jan 22 23:22:03 2009
Return-Path: <mechling@allied-brokers.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6B303A6A3F for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:22:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -21.302
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-21.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_NONE=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SWKlrec57s+h for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:22:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 4ad.com (unknown [200.121.141.3]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 45B983A6941 for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:22:00 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Great Finds
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090123072201.45B983A6941@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:22:00 -0800 (PST) <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1250">
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#B1B1B1"><div style="padding: 20px 20px 40px 20px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
<table width="450" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center" bgcolor="#ffffff">
        <tr>
<td style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px; font-family:'Trebuchet MS', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:20px; color:#000000;" > 
We ship Worldwide! To all countries! To all destinations!</td>
        </tr>
        <tr>            <td style="padding:10px 0px 30px 0px;">
<div style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px;">
	<div style="border-top:5px solid #666666; padding-top:10px;  font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:10px; color:#666666;">
<a href="http://happinessfew.com/"><img src="http://happinessfew.com/sdjbvsj.gif" alt="Cant see a picture? Click Here!" border="0" 
class="featureImage" style="padding:100px 100px 100px 100px;" /></a>
	</div> </td>
        </tr>

        <tr>
                <td style="padding:20px 10px 10px 0px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please log in to www.happinessfew.com, click on "My Account", 
								click "Update" to edit your registration details and uncheck the "Receive Newsletter?" check box.<br>
                                Or unsubscribe at
                                <a href="http://happinessfew.com/faq.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">http://happinessfew.com/faq.php</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                <a href="http://happinessfew.com/privacy_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Privacy Statement</a>  |
                                <a href="http://happinessfew.com/shipping_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Terms &amp; Conditions</a>  |
                                <a href="http://happinessfew.com/contacts.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Contact</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                BRANDKEYWORD Ltd.<br>
                                Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 1, B141. 360 Clements Road. London. SE70 4DG
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                &copy; 2006-2008 BRANDKEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved
                        </p></td> </tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>

From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Jan 23 00:08:39 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2B6E3A6A78; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:08:39 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7DD3A6A78 for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:08:38 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.693
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.693 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.594, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bq7A-30BCW0T for <tsvwg@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:08:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mgw-mx03.nokia.com (smtp.nokia.com [192.100.122.230]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 768853A6A6D for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:08:37 -0800 (PST)
Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-mx03.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.6/Switch-3.2.6) with ESMTP id n0N87xhE019506 for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:08:18 +0200
Received: from vaebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.160.244.30]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959);  Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:08:13 +0200
Received: from mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com ([172.21.143.97]) by vaebh104.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:08:13 +0200
Received: from leon.remlab.net (esdhcp041160.research.nokia.com [172.21.41.160]) by mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id n0N88Bs7003226 for <tsvwg@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:08:12 +0200
From: "=?roman8?q?R=C5mi?= Denis-Courmont" <remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com>
Organization: Maemo Software - Nokia Devices R&D
To: tsvwg@ietf.org
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:08:26 +0200
User-Agent: KMail/1.10.3 (Linux/2.6.27.10; KDE/4.1.3; i686; ; )
References: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de>
In-Reply-To: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="roman8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200901231008.26443.remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jan 2009 08:08:13.0415 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCFA2770:01C97D31]
X-Nokia-AV: Clean
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] API related DISCUSS for draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org On Wednesday 21 January 2009 21:57:51 ext Alfred H=CEnes, you wrote:
> I stumbled over the mid-December IESG deliberations regarding the
> I-D after LC, draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto, and got stuck at the DISCUSS
> position in favor of an API specification in the draft.
>
> I have serious concerns with that position.
>
> For the most part, the IETF has refrained from doing that entirely,
> and when it indeed dealt with specifying APIs,

I humbly think that is a big mistake.

There are quite a bunch of otherwise good IETF technologies that would=20
probably have gained much wider acceptance, had they had an Informational A=
PI,=20
rather than none.

I could start with various DNS record types, like SRV, NAPTR, etc -=20
implementors stick to A and AAAA because these two do have "easy to use"=20
standard APIs.

IPsec is another example. It was "unprogrammable", at least until the very=
=20
late BTNS working group. Compare to SSL/TLS, which though it has no "standa=
rd"=20
API, can be layered easily atop sockets.


Specifying APIs is perhaps not absolutely needed, but I feel concepting a s=
ane=20
API, and outlining its architecture in an informational appendix should be =
a=20
MUST (as applicable).

=2D-=20
R=C5mi Denis-Courmont
Maemo Software, Nokia Devices R&D


From tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Jan 23 00:37:04 2009
Return-Path: <tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tsvwg-archive@optimus.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72A103A6920; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:37:04 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tsvwg@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CC3E3A6920; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:37:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.6
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gAPB4ZwfPdX9; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:37:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.fit.nokia.com (unknown [IPv6:2001:2060:40:1::123]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 877C43A67FB; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:37:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [IPv6:2001:2060:40:2:219:e3ff:fe06:dc74] ([IPv6:2001:2060:40:2:219:e3ff:fe06:dc74]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.fit.nokia.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n0N8aeKL015203 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:36:41 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from lars.eggert@nokia.com)
Message-Id: <10C7DFB2-2F9A-4F6E-936A-FC76596BED9A@nokia.com>
From: Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>
To: Denis-Courmont Remi (Nokia-D/Helsinki) <Remi.Denis-Courmont@nokia.com>
In-Reply-To: <200901231008.26443.remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-44-989527136; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:36:37 +0200
References: <200901211957.UAA02570@TR-Sys.de> <200901231008.26443.remi.denis-courmont@nokia.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3)
X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0.1 (mail.fit.nokia.com [IPv6:2001:2060:40:1::123]); Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:36:41 +0200 (EET)
X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.94.2/8894/Fri Jan 23 06:59:14 2009 on fit.nokia.com
X-Virus-Status: Clean
Cc: tcpm@ietf.org, tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] API related DISCUSS for draft-ietf-tcpm-tcp-uto
X-BeenThere: tsvwg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Transport Area Working Group <tsvwg.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tsvwg>
List-Post: <mailto:tsvwg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg>, <mailto:tsvwg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org --Apple-Mail-44-989527136
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=US-ASCII;
	format=flowed;
	delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 2009-1-23, at 10:08, Denis-Courmont Remi (Nokia-D/Helsinki) wrote:
> There are quite a bunch of otherwise good IETF technologies that would
> probably have gained much wider acceptance, had they had an  
> Informational API,
> rather than none.

FYI, the option does have a high-level API (Section 3).

Lars

PS: Also, this discussion should be on the TCPM list.
--Apple-Mail-44-989527136
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename=smime.p7s
Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature;
	name=smime.p7s
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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==

--Apple-Mail-44-989527136--

From ml@aati-us.com  Fri Jan 23 06:22:15 2009
Return-Path: <ml@aati-us.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D64E3A68D7 for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 06:22:15 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.845
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.845 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, DNS_FROM_OPENWHOIS=1.13, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_MISMATCH_NET=0.311, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lKEWA6csazkH for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 06:22:14 -0800 (PST)
Received: from akirakiden.agns.co.jp (127-210-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net [94.178.210.127]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 70E693A6843 for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 06:22:12 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Your Payment Has Been Initiated
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090123142213.70E693A6843@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 06:22:12 -0800 (PST) <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#B1B1B1"><div style="padding: 20px 20px 40px 20px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
<table width="450" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center" bgcolor="#ffffff">
        <tr>
<td style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px; font-family:'Trebuchet MS', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:20px; color:#000000;" > 
We ship Worldwide! To all countries! To all destinations!</td>
        </tr>
        <tr>            <td style="padding:10px 0px 30px 0px;">
<div style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px;">
	<div style="border-top:5px solid #666666; padding-top:10px;  font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:10px; color:#666666;">
<a href="http://stonemain.com/"><img src="http://stonemain.com/sdjbvsj.gif" alt="Cant see a picture? Click Here!" border="0" 
class="featureImage" style="padding:100px 100px 100px 100px;" /></a>
	</div> </td>
        </tr>

        <tr>
                <td style="padding:20px 10px 10px 0px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please log in to www.stonemain.com, click on "My Account", 
								click "Update" to edit your registration details and uncheck the "Receive Newsletter?" check box.<br>
                                Or unsubscribe at
                                <a href="http://stonemain.com/faq.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">http://stonemain.com/faq.php</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                <a href="http://stonemain.com/privacy_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Privacy Statement</a>  |
                                <a href="http://stonemain.com/shipping_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Terms &amp; Conditions</a>  |
                                <a href="http://stonemain.com/contacts.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Contact</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                BRANDKEYWORD Ltd.<br>
                                Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 7, B314. 849 Clements Road. London. SE48 0DG
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                &copy; 2006-2008 BRANDKEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved
                        </p></td> </tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>

From jaychent@accl.com  Sat Jan 24 07:42:22 2009
Return-Path: <jaychent@accl.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B3AC3A6B4A for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 07:42:22 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -33.402
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-33.402 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jAimek4jTIWB for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 07:42:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from fw2.jc.com.br (fw2.jc.com.br [201.18.30.226]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 740343A6AD3 for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 07:42:19 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Mail could not be delivered
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090124154220.740343A6AD3@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 07:42:19 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1250">
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#e2e2e2"><div style="padding: 20px 20px 40px 20px; background-color:#e2e2e2;">
<table width="450" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center" bgcolor="#ffffff">
        <tr>
<td style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px; font-family:'Trebuchet MS', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:20px; color:#000000;" > 
We ship Worldwide! To all countries! To all destinations!</td>
        </tr>
        <tr>            <td style="padding:10px 0px 30px 0px;">
<div style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px;">
        <div style="border-top:5px solid #666666; padding-top:10px;  font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:10px; color:#666666;">
<a href="http://helddivision.com/"><img src="http://helddivision.com/dirpic1.gif" alt="Click Here!" border="0" 
class="featureImage" style="padding:100px 100px 100px 100px;" /></a>
        </div> </td>
        </tr>

        <tr>
                <td style="padding:20px 10px 10px 0px; background-color:#e2e2e2;">
                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please log in to www.helddivision.com, click on "My Account", 
                                                                click "Update" to edit your registration details and uncheck the "Receive Newsletter?" check box.<br>
                                Or unsubscribe at
                                <a href="http://helddivision.com/faq.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">http://helddivision.com/faq.php</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                <a href="http://helddivision.com/privacy_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Privacy Statement</a>  |
                                <a href="http://helddivision.com/shipping_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Terms &amp; Conditions</a>  |
                                <a href="http://helddivision.com/contacts.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Contact</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                BRANDKEYWORD Ltd.<br>
                                Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 9, B640. 117 Clements Road. London. SE98 8DG
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                &copy; 2006-2009 BRANDKEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved
                        </p></td> </tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>

From ldqehmez@alruck.com  Sat Jan 24 09:12:29 2009
Return-Path: <ldqehmez@alruck.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFDC328C1DD for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:12:29 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -20.991
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-20.991 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP=1.398, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rEgMk1E13waS for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:12:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from dslb-088-067-050-124.pools.arcor-ip.net (dslb-092-074-137-130.pools.arcor-ip.net [92.74.137.130]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3DE6B3A6809 for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:12:27 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Message from President
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090124171228.3DE6B3A6809@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:12:27 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#B1B1B1"><div style="padding: 20px 20px 40px 20px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
<table width="450" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center" bgcolor="#ffffff">
        <tr>
<td style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px; font-family:'Trebuchet MS', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:20px; color:#000000;" > 
We ship Worldwide! To all countries! To all destinations!</td>
        </tr>
        <tr>            <td style="padding:10px 0px 30px 0px;">
<div style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px;">
	<div style="border-top:5px solid #666666; padding-top:10px;  font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:10px; color:#666666;">
<a href="http://bringdiscuss.com/"><img src="http://bringdiscuss.com/sdjbvsj.gif" alt="Cant see a picture? Click Here!" border="0" 
class="featureImage" style="padding:100px 100px 100px 100px;" /></a>
	</div> </td>
        </tr>

        <tr>
                <td style="padding:20px 10px 10px 0px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please log in to www.bringdiscuss.com, click on "My Account", 
								click "Update" to edit your registration details and uncheck the "Receive Newsletter?" check box.<br>
                                Or unsubscribe at
                                <a href="http://bringdiscuss.com/faq.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">http://bringdiscuss.com/faq.php</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                <a href="http://bringdiscuss.com/privacy_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Privacy Statement</a>  |
                                <a href="http://bringdiscuss.com/shipping_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Terms &amp; Conditions</a>  |
                                <a href="http://bringdiscuss.com/contacts.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Contact</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                BRANDKEYWORD Ltd.<br>
                                Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 7, B397. 287 Clements Road. London. SE35 9DG
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                &copy; 2006-2008 BRANDKEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved
                        </p></td> </tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>

From mailer-daemon@agulin.aoyama.ac.jp  Sat Jan 24 12:46:45 2009
Return-Path: <mailer-daemon@agulin.aoyama.ac.jp>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CD4928B797 for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:46:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.05
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.05 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_DB=0.888, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR2=4.395, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, TVD_RCVD_IP=1.931, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_OB_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QwpF1e+HEUuf for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:46:44 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 201-40-24-238.bsace703.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br (201-40-24-238.bsace703.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [201.40.24.238]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CDB923A685C for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:46:42 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: PayPal - Email Handling Opinion Needed
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 090123-0, 23/01/2009), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Message-Id: <20090124204642.CDB923A685C@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:46:42 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1250">
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#B1B1B1"><div style="padding: 20px 20px 40px 20px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
<table width="450" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center" bgcolor="#ffffff">
        <tr>
<td style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px; font-family:'Trebuchet MS', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:20px; color:#000000;" > 
We ship Worldwide! To all countries! To all destinations!</td>
        </tr>
        <tr>            <td style="padding:10px 0px 30px 0px;">
<div style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px;">
	<div style="border-top:5px solid #666666; padding-top:10px;  font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:10px; color:#666666;">
<a href="http://bringdiscuss.com/"><img src="http://bringdiscuss.com/sdjbvsj.gif" alt="Cant see a picture? Click Here!" border="0" 
class="featureImage" style="padding:100px 100px 100px 100px;" /></a>
	</div> </td>
        </tr>

        <tr>
                <td style="padding:20px 10px 10px 0px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please log in to www.bringdiscuss.com, click on "My Account", 
								click "Update" to edit your registration details and uncheck the "Receive Newsletter?" check box.<br>
                                Or unsubscribe at
                                <a href="http://bringdiscuss.com/faq.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">http://bringdiscuss.com/faq.php</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                <a href="http://bringdiscuss.com/privacy_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Privacy Statement</a>  |
                                <a href="http://bringdiscuss.com/shipping_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Terms &amp; Conditions</a>  |
                                <a href="http://bringdiscuss.com/contacts.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Contact</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                BRANDKEYWORD Ltd.<br>
                                Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 3, B242. 338 Clements Road. London. SE32 3DG
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                &copy; 2006-2008 BRANDKEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved
                        </p></td> </tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>

From katoutdd@akira-kozai.co.jp  Sun Jan 25 04:09:04 2009
Return-Path: <katoutdd@akira-kozai.co.jp>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD02728C199 for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 04:09:04 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -33.546
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-33.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HELO_EQ_NE_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, HOST_EQ_NE_JP=2.599, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_28=1.561, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4nEz4a3ILQrW for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 04:09:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: from p1097-ipad29sasajima.aichi.ocn.ne.jp (p4247-ipad47sasajima.aichi.ocn.ne.jp [211.17.88.247]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 291653A6A62 for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 04:09:02 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Message from InterScan Messaging Security Suite
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090125120903.291653A6A62@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 04:09:02 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY><P><center><table width="600" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr>  
<td width="100%" align="center">  <font face="verdana" size="2" color="#444444"> 
Having trouble viewing this email? Click 
<a href="http://earthoften.com/">here</a> to view as a webpage.<br>  </font> </td> </tr> </table> </center></P>
<table cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 border=1 bordercolor="#ffffff" 
bgcolor=#ffffff width=600 align=center style="border-style: solid"><tr><td><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" 
bordercolor="" width="100%" bgcolor=""><tr><td valign="top" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" align="center">
<table  width="100%" bgColor="#ffffff" border="0" borderColor="" cellPadding="0" cellSpacing="0">
<tr><td style="font-family:Arial; font-size:13px">
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" align="center"><a href="http://earthoften.com/">
<img id="image-placeholder" src="http://earthoften.com/8dvs9.jpg" alt="Best prices! Go to Our Site!" thid="179757" border="0"></a></p>
</td></tr></table></p></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="600" align="center">
                        <tr><td><font face="verdana" size="1" color="#777777">
                        This email was sent to:  <b><tsvwg-archive@ietf.org></b><br><br>
                        <table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="450" ID="Table1" Border=0>
                        <tr><td><font face="verdana" size="1" color="#777777">
                        This email was sent by: Canadian Internet Services, Inc.<br>                                                                                                              
                        1214 W. Abram St. City, Arlington 
                        </font></td></tr>
                        </table><br><br>          
 We respect your right to privacy - <a href="http://earthoften.com/shipping_policy.php"  style="color: #0000ff">view our policy</a>
                       </font></td><td width=150>
                       </tr>
                       <tr>
                       <td colspan="2" align="center">
                       <font face="verdana" size="1" color="#777777">
                       <br><a href="http://earthoften.com/privacy_policy.php" >Manage Subscriptions</a> | 
                       <a href="http://earthoften.com/contacts.php" >Update Profile</a> | 
                       <a href="http://earthoften.com/faq.php" >One-Click Unsubscribe</a>                                                                      
                       </font></td></tr></table></BODY></HTML>

From nferrand@absi.fr  Thu Jan 29 03:17:55 2009
Return-Path: <nferrand@absi.fr>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 029A23A6A71 for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 03:17:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -12.178
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.178 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_EQ_D_D_D_D=1.597, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, FM_DDDD_TIMES_2=1.999, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC=4.295, HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR=2.426, HELO_EQ_DSL=1.129, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LMua82iqtuW9 for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 03:17:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lns-bzn-24-82-64-132-5.adsl.proxad.net (lns-bzn-42-82-255-105-178.adsl.proxad.net [82.255.105.178]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 29A263A6A60 for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 03:17:51 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Receipt for Your Payment
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090129111752.29A263A6A60@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 03:17:51 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#B1B1B1"><div style="padding: 20px 20px 40px 20px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
<table width="450" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center" bgcolor="#ffffff">
        <tr>
<td style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px; font-family:'Trebuchet MS', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:20px; color:#000000;" > 
We ship Worldwide! To all countries! To all destinations!</td>
        </tr>
        <tr>            <td style="padding:10px 0px 30px 0px;">
<div style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px;">
	<div style="border-top:5px solid #666666; padding-top:10px;  font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:10px; color:#666666;">
<a href="http://rightflower.com/"><img src="http://rightflower.com/sdjbvsj.gif" alt="Cant see a picture? Click Here!" border="0" 
class="featureImage" style="padding:100px 100px 100px 100px;" /></a>
	</div> </td>
        </tr>

        <tr>
                <td style="padding:20px 10px 10px 0px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please log in to www.rightflower.com, click on "My Account", 
								click "Update" to edit your registration details and uncheck the "Receive Newsletter?" check box.<br>
                                Or unsubscribe at
                                <a href="http://rightflower.com/faq.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">http://rightflower.com/faq.php</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                <a href="http://rightflower.com/privacy_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Privacy Statement</a>  |
                                <a href="http://rightflower.com/shipping_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Terms &amp; Conditions</a>  |
                                <a href="http://rightflower.com/contacts.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Contact</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                KEYWORD Ltd.<br>
                                Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 0, B837. 300 Clements Road. London. SE83 9DG
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                &copy; 2006-2008 KEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved
                        </p></td> </tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>

From lzoarenaceous@aandmelectronics.com  Fri Jan 30 06:14:29 2009
Return-Path: <lzoarenaceous@aandmelectronics.com>
X-Original-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F2228C28E for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:14:29 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.924
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.924 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, FH_HELO_ALMOST_IP=5.417, FH_HOST_ALMOST_IP=1.889, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_DYNAMIC_SPLIT_IP=3.493, HOST_EQ_STATIC=1.172, HOST_EQ_STATICIP=1.511, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_32=1.778, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=1.457, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100=0.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E4_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_E8_51_100=1.5, RAZOR2_CHECK=0.5, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.96, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=0.877, RCVD_IN_XBL=3.033, URIBL_AB_SURBL=10, URIBL_BLACK=20, URIBL_JP_SURBL=10, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.083, URIBL_SC_SURBL=10, URIBL_WS_SURBL=10, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rIeRgtf9zw4S for <ietfarch-tsvwg-archive@core3.amsl.com>; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:14:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 208.Red-88-7-5.staticIP.rima-tde.net (208.Red-88-7-5.staticIP.rima-tde.net [88.7.5.208]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8745C28C28F for <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:14:22 -0800 (PST)
To: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
Subject: Invoice from itunes.com
From: <tsvwg-archive@ietf.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Importance: High
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20090130141424.8745C28C28F@core3.amsl.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 06:14:22 -0800 (PST)

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-2">
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#B1B1B1"><div style="padding: 20px 20px 40px 20px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
<table width="450" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center" bgcolor="#ffffff">
        <tr>
<td style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px; font-family:'Trebuchet MS', Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:20px; color:#000000;" > 
We ship Worldwide! To all countries! To all destinations!</td>
        </tr>
        <tr>            <td style="padding:10px 0px 30px 0px;">
<div style="padding:10px 10px 10px 10px;">
	<div style="border-top:5px solid #666666; padding-top:10px;  font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:10px; color:#666666;">
<a href="http://moversolar.com/"><img src="http://moversolar.com/sdjbvsj.gif" alt="Cant see a picture? Click Here!" border="0" 
class="featureImage" style="padding:100px 100px 100px 100px;" /></a>
	</div> </td>
        </tr>

        <tr>
                <td style="padding:20px 10px 10px 0px; background-color:#B1B1B1;">
                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                To unsubscribe from this mailing list, please log in to www.moversolar.com, click on "My Account", 
								click "Update" to edit your registration details and uncheck the "Receive Newsletter?" check box.<br>
                                Or unsubscribe at
                                <a href="http://moversolar.com/faq.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">http://moversolar.com/faq.php</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                <a href="http://moversolar.com/privacy_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Privacy Statement</a>  |
                                <a href="http://moversolar.com/shipping_policy.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Terms &amp; Conditions</a>  |
                                <a href="http://moversolar.com/contacts.php" style="font-weight:bold; color:#666666">Contact</a>
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                KEYWORD Ltd.<br>
                                Tower Bridge Business Complex. Unit 5, B584. 124 Clements Road. London. SE28 7DG
                        </p>

                        <p style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:9px; color:#666666;">
                                &copy; 2006-2008 KEYWORD, Ltd. All Rights Reserved
                        </p></td> </tr></table></div></BODY></HTML>