From nobody Tue Oct 2 02:15:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 379CA130DD6 for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 02:15:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d9CqQC77U2Cf for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 02:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-out12.electric.net (smtp-out12.electric.net [89.104.206.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AD97130DD2 for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 02:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1g7Gm9-0008QL-Uf by out12a.electric.net with emc1-ok (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1g7Gm9-0008Uk-Vs; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 02:15:29 -0700 Received: by emcmailer; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 02:15:29 -0700 Received: from [130.226.226.11] (helo=post.kb.dk) by out12a.electric.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1g7Gm9-0008QL-Uf; Tue, 02 Oct 2018 02:15:29 -0700 Received: from EXCH-01.kb.dk (unknown [10.5.0.111]) by post.kb.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E9BD69187; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 11:15:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EXCH-02.kb.dk (10.5.0.112) by EXCH-01.kb.dk (10.5.0.111) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1415.2; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 11:15:29 +0200 Received: from EXCH-02.kb.dk ([fe80::b595:1a1f:5666:b29]) by EXCH-02.kb.dk ([fe80::b595:1a1f:5666:b29%7]) with mapi id 15.01.1415.002; Tue, 2 Oct 2018 11:15:29 +0200 From: Eld Zierau To: "Dale R. Worley" , "urn@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: PWID as citation (was: Suggested PWID URN for Persistent Web IDentifiers - version 3) Thread-Index: AQHUR+1JIzAdb4aoaEaEW201Vk8FqaULzsOQ Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2018 09:15:29 +0000 Message-ID: <288cc7e4ce4e480c8938c0ab504c6dbd@kb.dk> References: <87worvv217.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> In-Reply-To: <87worvv217.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Accept-Language: da-DK, en-US Content-Language: da-DK X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.226.229.95] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-IP: 130.226.226.11 X-Env-From: elzi@kb.dk X-Proto: esmtp X-Revdns: post-03.kb.dk X-HELO: post.kb.dk X-TLS: X-Authenticated_ID: X-PolicySMART: 10573177 X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (c) X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (s) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] PWID as citation (was: Suggested PWID URN for Persistent Web IDentifiers - version 3) X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2018 09:15:38 -0000 Just to let you know,=20 - I will be back next week with comments and new draft - last week, at iPRES 2018 - the 15th International Conference on Digital P= reservation - the interest for the PWID was great, - and also expressed by = the best poster award for my PWID poster Best regards, Eld -----Original Message----- From: Dale R. Worley =20 Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2018 4:27 AM To: Eld Zierau ; urn@ietf.org Subject: PWID as citation (was: Suggested PWID URN for Persistent Web IDent= ifiers - version 3) Thinking again about PWIDs as citations ... One feature of a citation is that it's not just an identifier for retrievin= g a specific instance of a resource. If that instance is unavailable, info= rmation can be extracted from the citation that can be used to retrieve oth= er instances of the resource. I.e., if the cited instance is in Library A,= information from the citation (author, title, etc.) can be used to locate another instance in Library B. The citation is= *transparent* as a source of information for *partial matching* against th= e universe of information resources. >From this point of view, retrieval URLs for web archives are *opaque*, at l= east, unless one knows the specifics of how each archive constructs its URL= s. But PWID URNs are *transparent*; the archived URL and timestamp can be extr= acted from the URN algorithmicly. And those can be used to search other we= b archives for similar archived resources. (Presumably, other archives don= 't have archived resources with exactly the same timestamps.) Conversely, if the archives are amenable, we can have straightforward resol= ution by having each archive register a URL prefix with IANA. Like the cur= rent DOI resolver, when a URN is prefixed with its archive's URL prefix and= then fetched, the referenced resource is returned. And I think this combination of features is something new -- PWIDs could be= *algorithmicly resolvable* (using their specified archives), and yet also = be *citations* (transparently providing enough information that a human can= find similar resources in other archives). Dale From nobody Thu Oct 11 10:53:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9760E130EBC for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:45:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jLPHXn0EQ8_3 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:45:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x32c.google.com (mail-wm1-x32c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8E5D130EBE for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x32c.google.com with SMTP id i8-v6so9628415wmg.0 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:45:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id :references:to; bh=GnjZhqUgVmB45enCPghHjZArKzzvxlZcHa01K5CmWjs=; b=uXJn6NZEirJTm3zdUy3d/6cuAiO695TtvaW1p5Hou3ArPxKw823oyO4xwcFKvDMW9Z 0MDiXtr4dGqGBwhEG7JvwOdk/xYy2Itvrgc6oFJTdofjGk0iWi/tAVGWWAJxoHtWvcwD 1SZl3L1zy94JhaafgVIHxOZEGvaPRpa79b4oiwmhVFyOWFcHKMei9cGU1jcaJFe07OHQ zJhB72UqGYJ5lDcyWyeIzd7TqzfpRDkn3umCX4H74EzjULi+Za9Rfe8oZvAnYBWjZKx7 c5225O5z5QlLTabsn4vbp30zlFCheuzUEsw4TMHgeY50BUU46nHdI8GGrN9zg7jqI+CE BsUQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to :date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=GnjZhqUgVmB45enCPghHjZArKzzvxlZcHa01K5CmWjs=; b=s9CiaRGd+wjWH6ZLr6ciDhBcr7BATdw5HTeaj3Y/qxx6un+3KOx7Q+ZVTWA5eQ2tsa Lw2PsgHvn1u6SXw4HC6I3dK9HH/LAF4FFShyLQpqVP+VYtdsZoUEW02qD+e940qOwGsj q2XYvvydG36WQqA5z+GwjTQ9oVeezCnB8XOQAmxOlHMt+bN6RYXvur2nhu6PgF+fXiLt J+xEDm5VEIJ+GnnsF/M1sFpe2/TbcAx6yOAMMUPQPtJIBd+F4SThBdHJyo11yT9kzacU eTpQIwnmdz0hjrdv2nX2BEbF5+asfVM0oqd16ja4Z3RDCepOaK4PsUnJkFDCj+jIUqCj 2ouQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfojDf+hhXtoBykVCCL+a7FwM2fCEC+zxH+zxmUL1Qhei5R10FSvu 1AQqNrgT377v/mHMiVMh79s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV63tlsUWRLxDJAM469iywmjXGIEAttlXxWht7dEDny23t6cFcBnugivrHius3NpjKgft/XQ8GA== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:3a92:: with SMTP id h140-v6mr2295009wma.69.1539276313990; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:45:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.22.36.177] (93-51-213-243.ip268.fastwebnet.it. [93.51.213.243]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v16-v6sm21093021wru.31.2018.10.11.09.45.12 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 11 Oct 2018 09:45:12 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Enrico Francesconi Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_84C0CC16-01EB-44F0-BB6A-EFA5018C447F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.0 \(3094\)) From: Enrico Francesconi In-Reply-To: <921B7656-86DB-471A-9085-91381725D2BC@ittig.cnr.it> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 18:45:07 +0200 Cc: Pierluigi Spinosa , LUPO Caterina , urn@ietf.org, Alexey Melnikov , Barry Leiba , Peter Saint-Andre , john-ietf@jck.com, L.Svensson@dnb.de, "Hakala, Juha E" Message-Id: <48CF1A9A-E476-478C-8A91-923393357D50@ittig.cnr.it> References: <87a7tk6wgz.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> <921B7656-86DB-471A-9085-91381725D2BC@ittig.cnr.it> To: "Dale R. Worley" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3094) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 10:53:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [urn] Moving ahead with draft-spinosa-urn-lex X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 16:45:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_84C0CC16-01EB-44F0-BB6A-EFA5018C447F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear Dale, we are back to you because we would like to ask you if there has been = any evolution on the so called "experimental=E2=80=9D registration of = the URN:LEX namespace.=20 The last version of the URN:LEX specifications has been submitted on = June 2018 and from that day we did not received any feedback. So we were wondering if any action is required by us. Thanks a lot for your collaboration best regards Pierluigi and Enrico --------------------------------------------------------- Enrico Francesconi ITTIG - CNR Institute of Legal Information Theory and Techniques Italian National Research Council Via de' Barucci 20 50127 Florence Italy Tel: +39-055-4399-665 Fax: +39-055-4399-605 email: francesconi@ittig.cnr.it --------------------------------------------------------- > On 04 giu 2018, at 22:46, Enrico Francesconi = wrote: >=20 > Dear Dale, > thanks for your message and to the colleagues who approved your = proposal to move ahead with urn-lex registration.=20 >=20 > As for the issue you raised about the maintenance of the registry of = jurisdiction codes, we agree at this stage to be ITTIG-CNR the > Registrar. In this respect we propose the following changes: >=20 > Section 3.1 >=20 > "However, a special register for the , maintained > by IANA, is required, the rules of which are defined in section 11.2." > =E2=80=94> > "However, a special register for the is required, > the rules of which are defined in section 11.2." >=20 > [...] >=20 > Section 11.2 >=20 > "IANA is requested to create a new registry for , > with the following format:" > =E2=80=94> > "It is requested to create a new registry for , > with the following format:" >=20 > [...] >=20 > "un.org "; "United Nations"; "DPI, United Nations, =
, "; [reference] > =E2=80=94>=20 > "un.org "; "United Nations"; "DPI, United Nations, =
, "; [reference] > In the current experimental LEX registration phase, ITTIG-CNR will = take care to create and maintain the registry for . > As the criteria of the LEX names assignment will be consolidated, = after the experimental phase such registry will be maintained by > IANA. > The adopted registration policy is compliant with the "Expert Review" = as specified in [RFC8126]. > Designated Expert(s) will assign jurisdiction codes based on the = following principles: " >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > If you think that such changes are sufficient, we are going to produce > the draft v. 13 and upload it in the ietf versioning service. >=20 > Thanks! > Best regards > Pierluigi and Enrico >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------- > Enrico Francesconi > ITTIG - CNR > Institute of Legal Information Theory and Techniques > Italian National Research Council >=20 > Via de' Barucci 20 > 50127 Florence > Italy >=20 > Tel: +39-055-4399-665 > Fax: +39-055-4399-605 > email: francesconi@ittig.cnr.it > --------------------------------------------------------- >=20 >> On 01 mag 2018, at 02:38, Dale R. Worley > wrote: >>=20 >> My apologies for not working on this earlier. >>=20 >> The current draft of "urn-lex" is draft-spinosa-urn-lex-12. People = have >> criticized its proposed URN system in many ways, but it seems to me = that >> most of the criticisms are "bibliographic", they concern good ways to >> create identifiers for written works. As such, the IETF is not a = good >> forum for correcting most of those problems. >>=20 >> My proposal is that we implement "rough consensus and running code" = -- >> obtain a usable registration of the "lex" URN namespace so that the >> authors and ITTIG can put the "lex" URNs into practice. The process = of >> using the URNs will educate the authors regarding the correct = resolution >> of the various problems, and will likely cause them to later submit a >> revised registration. >>=20 >> That is, the registration we create at this time will be understood = to >> be experimental in nature. >>=20 >> In order to be suitable as an "experimental" registration, there are = a >> few problems that must be resolved: >>=20 >> 1. The URN syntax must conform to the generic URN syntax. >>=20 >> 2. The requirements of uniqueness and persistence must be met. (That >> is, any URN designates at most one resource, and the resource that it >> designates must not change over time. However, it is permissible to >> have multiple URNs designate the same resource.) >>=20 >> 3. The process or authority that assigns each URN must be = well-defined. >>=20 >> Item 1 is taken care of, in that the syntax in -12 conforms (as far = as I >> can tell) to the URN syntax in RFC 8141. >>=20 >> Item 2 is the responsibility of the Jurisdictional Registrars, in the >> same way that the naming authorities of many other URN namespaces are >> responsible for uniqueness and persistence. >>=20 >> Item 3 requires that a registry of jurisdiction codes and = Jurisdictional >> Registrars be maintained. Section 11.2 of the -12 draft proposes = that >> IANA maintain the registry. Given the experimental nature of the URN >> registration, it seems to me to be premature to involve IANA, = especially >> since the principles that the Designated Export must implement are >> likely to change over time. Instead, it seems to me that the best >> choice for registrar is ITTIG-CNR, the proposer and developer of the = URN >> namespace. >>=20 >> When the namespace definition is transitioned to a non-experimental >> status (including fixing a good set of policies to assign = jurisdiction >> codes), the registry can be transferred to IANA to implement the = proven >> policies. >>=20 >> Following this path requires only small changes for -13, viz., = updating >> section 11.2. >>=20 >> Dale >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Archived discussions: >>=20 >> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn/current/msg03828.html = >> 16 Nov 2017 >> "urn:lex draft v. 12" >>=20 >> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn/current/msg03811.html >> starting 20 Sep 2017 >> "Request for new URN namespace review: LEX" >> Message-Id: = <1505909590.1544977.1112321704.5FEB92F9@webmail.messagingengine.com> >>=20 >> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn-nid/current/msg01270.html >> starting 29 Apr 2014 >> "Publication request for draft-spinosa-urn-lex" >> Message-Id: = >>=20 >> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn-nid/current/msg01204.html >> starting 27 Mar 2013 >> "Application for a formal URN NID" >> Message-Id: <23A64284-6B03-4B24-B680-54A61E96BECA at ittig.cnr.it> >>=20 >> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn-nid/current/msg01059.html >> 15 Oct 2009 >> "URN LEX Namespace submission" >=20 --Apple-Mail=_84C0CC16-01EB-44F0-BB6A-EFA5018C447F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Dear Dale,
   we are back to you = because we would like to ask you if there has been any evolution on the = so called "experimental=E2=80=9D registration of the URN:LEX = namespace. 
The last version of the URN:LEX = specifications has been submitted on June 2018 and from that day we did = not received any feedback.
So we were wondering if = any action is required by us.

Thanks a lot for your = collaboration
best regards

   Pierluigi and = Enrico


---------------------------------------------------------
Enrico Francesconi
ITTIG - CNR
Institute of Legal Information Theory and Techniques
Italian National Research Council

Via de' Barucci 20
50127 Florence
Italy

Tel: +39-055-4399-665
Fax: +39-055-4399-605
email: francesconi@ittig.cnr.it
---------------------------------------------------------
=

On 04 giu 2018, at 22:46, Enrico Francesconi <francesconi@ittig.cnr.it> wrote:

Dear Dale,
   thanks for your message = and to the colleagues who approved your proposal to move ahead with = urn-lex registration. 

As for the = issue you raised about the maintenance of the registry = of jurisdiction codes, we agree at this stage to be ITTIG-CNR = the
Registrar. In this respect we propose the = following changes:

Section 3.1

"However, a special register for the = <jurisdiction-code>, maintained
by IANA, is = required, the rules of which are defined in section 11.2."
=E2=80=94>
"However, a special register for = the <jurisdiction-code> is required,
the rules of = which are defined in section 11.2."

[...]

Section 11.2

"IANA = is requested to create a new registry for <jurisdiction-code>,
with the following format:"
=E2=80=94>
"It is requested to create a new registry for = <jurisdiction-code>,
with the following format:"

[...]

"un.org"; "United Nations"; "DPI, = United Nations, <address>, <contact>"; [reference]
=E2=80=94> 
"un.org"; "United Nations"; "DPI, United Nations, = <address>, <contact>"; [reference]
In the = current experimental LEX registration phase, ITTIG-CNR will take = care to create and maintain the registry for = <jurisdiction-code>.
As the criteria of the LEX = names assignment will be consolidated, after the experimental phase = such registry will be maintained by
IANA.
The adopted registration policy is compliant with the "Expert Review" as specified = in [RFC8126].
Designated Expert(s) will assign = jurisdiction codes based on the following principles: "




If = you think that such changes are sufficient, we are going to produce
the draft v. 13 and upload it in the ietf versioning = service.

Thanks!
Best = regards
   Pierluigi and Enrico


---------------------------------------------------------
Enrico Francesconi
ITTIG - CNR
Institute of Legal Information Theory and Techniques
Italian National Research Council

Via de' Barucci 20
50127 Florence
Italy

Tel: +39-055-4399-665
Fax: +39-055-4399-605
email: francesconi@ittig.cnr.it
---------------------------------------------------------
=

On 01 mag 2018, at 02:38, Dale R. Worley <worley@ariadne.com> = wrote:

My apologies for not working on this earlier.
The current draft of "urn-lex" is draft-spinosa-urn-lex-12. =  People have
criticized its proposed URN system in = many ways, but it seems to me that
most of the criticisms = are "bibliographic", they concern good ways to
create = identifiers for written works.  As such, the IETF is not a good
forum for correcting most of those problems.

My proposal is that we implement "rough consensus and running = code" --
obtain a usable registration of the "lex" URN = namespace so that the
authors and ITTIG can put the "lex" = URNs into practice.  The process of
using the URNs = will educate the authors regarding the correct resolution
of= the various problems, and will likely cause them to later submit a
revised registration.

That is, = the registration we create at this time will be understood to
be experimental in nature.

In = order to be suitable as an "experimental" registration, there are a
few problems that must be resolved:

1. The URN syntax must conform to the generic URN syntax.

2. The requirements of uniqueness and = persistence must be met.  (That
is, any URN = designates at most one resource, and the resource that it
designates must not change over time.  However, it is = permissible to
have multiple URNs designate the same = resource.)

3. The process or authority that = assigns each URN must be well-defined.

Item = 1 is taken care of, in that the syntax in -12 conforms (as far as I
can tell) to the URN syntax in RFC 8141.

Item 2 is the responsibility of the Jurisdictional = Registrars, in the
same way that the naming authorities of = many other URN namespaces are
responsible for uniqueness = and persistence.

Item 3 requires that a = registry of jurisdiction codes and Jurisdictional
Registrars= be maintained.  Section 11.2 of the -12 draft proposes that
IANA maintain the registry.  Given the experimental = nature of the URN
registration, it seems to me to be = premature to involve IANA, especially
since the principles = that the Designated Export must implement are
likely to = change over time.  Instead, it seems to me that the best
choice for registrar is ITTIG-CNR, the proposer and developer = of the URN
namespace.

When = the namespace definition is transitioned to a non-experimental
status (including fixing a good set of policies to assign = jurisdiction
codes), the registry can be transferred to = IANA to implement the proven
policies.

Following this path requires only small changes for -13, = viz., updating
section 11.2.

Dale
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------
Archived discussions:

https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn/current/msg03828.html=
16 Nov 2017
"urn:lex draft v. 12"

https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn/current/msg03811.html=
starting 20 Sep 2017
"Request for new = URN namespace review: LEX"
Message-Id: = <1505909590.1544977.1112321704.5FEB92F9@webmail.messagingengine.com>=

https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn-nid/current/msg01270.= html
starting 29 Apr 2014
"Publication = request for draft-spinosa-urn-lex"
Message-Id: = <CALaySJJk5YiCQZqt6WoWkqfAzi2A04HEAH=3DvG0pVAy8e45N5aQ@mail.gmail.com&g= t;

https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn-nid/current/msg01204.= html
starting 27 Mar 2013
"Application for a = formal URN NID"
Message-Id: = <23A64284-6B03-4B24-B680-54A61E96BECA at ittig.cnr.it>

https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/urn-nid/current/msg01059.= html
15 Oct 2009
"URN LEX Namespace = submission"


= --Apple-Mail=_84C0CC16-01EB-44F0-BB6A-EFA5018C447F-- From nobody Fri Oct 12 04:52:25 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D141130E17 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 04:52:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hu5eslZBF-dL for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 04:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-out12.electric.net (smtp-out12.electric.net [89.104.206.43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 932DC130DE2 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 04:52:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 1gAvzJ-000Ymz-T2 by out12a.electric.net with emc1-ok (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1gAvzJ-000YoR-UC; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 04:52:13 -0700 Received: by emcmailer; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 04:52:13 -0700 Received: from [130.226.226.11] (helo=post.kb.dk) by out12a.electric.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1gAvzJ-000Ymz-T2; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 04:52:13 -0700 Received: from EXCH-02.kb.dk (unknown [10.5.0.112]) by post.kb.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id E72CD91F5B; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 13:52:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EXCH-02.kb.dk (10.5.0.112) by EXCH-02.kb.dk (10.5.0.112) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1415.2; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 13:52:12 +0200 Received: from EXCH-02.kb.dk ([fe80::b595:1a1f:5666:b29]) by EXCH-02.kb.dk ([fe80::b595:1a1f:5666:b29%7]) with mapi id 15.01.1415.002; Fri, 12 Oct 2018 13:52:12 +0200 From: Eld Zierau To: "Dale R. Worley" , "urn@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: PWID as citation (was: Suggested PWID URN for Persistent Web IDentifiers - version 3) Thread-Index: AQHUR+1JIzAdb4aoaEaEW201Vk8FqaULzsOQgAtR5SA= Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 11:52:12 +0000 Message-ID: <38304f4593c740908ab31d98dc3ad263@kb.dk> References: <87worvv217.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> Accept-Language: da-DK, en-US Content-Language: da-DK X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [130.226.229.95] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-IP: 130.226.226.11 X-Env-From: elzi@kb.dk X-Proto: esmtp X-Revdns: post-03.kb.dk X-HELO: post.kb.dk X-TLS: X-Authenticated_ID: X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (c) X-Virus-Status: Scanned by VirusSMART (s) X-PolicySMART: 10573177 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] PWID as citation (was: Suggested PWID URN for Persistent Web IDentifiers - version 3) X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 11:52:23 -0000 I am working on it, ... but due to seasonal holiday, flues and extra deadli= nes, I will not be able to send a new draft and responses before start of N= ovember Best regards, Eld=20 -----Original Message----- From: Eld Zierau=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 11:15 AM To: 'Dale R. Worley' ; urn@ietf.org Subject: RE: PWID as citation (was: Suggested PWID URN for Persistent Web I= Dentifiers - version 3) Just to let you know, - I will be back next week with comments and new draft - last week, at iPRES 2018 - the 15th International Conference on Digital P= reservation - the interest for the PWID was great, - and also expressed by = the best poster award for my PWID poster Best regards, Eld -----Original Message----- From: Dale R. Worley Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2018 4:27 AM To: Eld Zierau ; urn@ietf.org Subject: PWID as citation (was: Suggested PWID URN for Persistent Web IDent= ifiers - version 3) Thinking again about PWIDs as citations ... One feature of a citation is that it's not just an identifier for retrievin= g a specific instance of a resource. If that instance is unavailable, info= rmation can be extracted from the citation that can be used to retrieve oth= er instances of the resource. I.e., if the cited instance is in Library A,= information from the citation (author, title, etc.) can be used to locate another instance in Library B. The citation is= *transparent* as a source of information for *partial matching* against th= e universe of information resources. >From this point of view, retrieval URLs for web archives are *opaque*, at l= east, unless one knows the specifics of how each archive constructs its URL= s. But PWID URNs are *transparent*; the archived URL and timestamp can be extr= acted from the URN algorithmicly. And those can be used to search other we= b archives for similar archived resources. (Presumably, other archives don= 't have archived resources with exactly the same timestamps.) Conversely, if the archives are amenable, we can have straightforward resol= ution by having each archive register a URL prefix with IANA. Like the cur= rent DOI resolver, when a URN is prefixed with its archive's URL prefix and= then fetched, the referenced resource is returned. And I think this combination of features is something new -- PWIDs could be= *algorithmicly resolvable* (using their specified archives), and yet also = be *citations* (transparently providing enough information that a human can= find similar resources in other archives). 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Tue, 23 Oct 2018 11:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dragon.local ([76.25.3.152]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t20-v6sm283824ioa.64.2018.10.23.11.52.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 23 Oct 2018 11:52:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Saint-Andre To: "Svensson, Lars" , "urn@ietf.org" References: <87fu1yhwlk.fsf@hobgoblin.ariadne.com> <241B7429-246F-4D13-9402-393315B4727A@gmail.com> <6D608C59-3032-494C-92F8-959FA5D4CA91@gmail.com> <48eaed30-d3a0-fa81-da88-8759d795978a@mozilla.com> <17e4d21c533440a48bd0e1459ab5f48a@dnb.de> <55ac5694-a235-34b4-a49f-9fe9deb350f7@mozilla.com> Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=stpeter@mozilla.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFonEf4BEADvZ+RGsJoOyZaw2rKedB9pBb2nNXVGgymNS9+FAL/9SsfcrKaGYSiWEz7P Lvc97hWH3LACFAHvnzoktv+4IWHjItvhdi9kUQ3Gcbahe55OcdZuSXXH3w5cHF0rKz9aYRpN jENqXM5dA8x4zIymJraqYvHlFsuuPB8rcRIV9SKsvcy14w9iRqu770NjXfE/aIsyRwwmTPiU FQ0fOSDPA/x2DLjed/GYHem90C5vF4Er9InMqH5KAMLnjIYZ9DbPx5c5EME4zW/d648HOvPB bm+roZs4JTHBhjlrTtzDDpMcxHq1e8YPvSdDLPvgFXDcTD4+ztkdO5rvDkbc61QFcLlidU8H 3KBiOVMA/5Rgl4lcWZzGfJBnwvSrKVPsxzpuCYDg01Y/7TH4AuVkv5Na6jKymJegjxEuJUNw CBzAhxOb0H9dXROkvxnRdYS9f0slcNDBrq/9h9dIBOqLhoIvhu+Bhz6L/NP5VunQWsEleGaO 3gxGh9PP/LMyjweDjPz74+7pbyOW0b5VnIDFcvCTJKP0sBJjRU/uqmQ25ckozuYrml0kqVGp EfxhSKVqCFoAS4Q7ux99yT4re2X1kmlHh3xntzmOaRpcZsS8mJEnVyhJZBMOhqE280m80ZbS CYghd2K0EIuRbexd+lfdjZ+t8ROMMdW5L51CJVigF0anyYTcAwARAQABzSdQZXRlciBTYWlu dC1BbmRyZSA8c3RwZXRlckBtb3ppbGxhLmNvbT7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQQ1VSPTuPTvyWCdvvRl YYwYf2gUqQUCWicR/gIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRBlYYwY f2gUqdaREAChG8qU1853mP0sv2Mersns8TLG1ztgoKHvMXFlMUpNz6Oi6CjjaMNFhP7eUY4T D43+yQs7f4qCkOAPWuuqO8FbNWQ+yUoVkqF8NUrrVkZUlZ1VZBMQHNlaEwwu1CGoHsLoRohP SiZ0hpmGTWB3V6cDDK4KN6nl610WJbzE9LeKY1AxtePdJi2KM281U0Fz8ntij1jWu0gF2xU4 Sez46JDogHLWKgd0srauhcCVzZjAhiWrXp1+ryzSWYaZO8Kh8SnF1f4o6jtYikMqkxUaI5nX wvD3kNX4AMSkCAZfG7Jcfj/SLDojTcREgO87g7B9bcOOsHN4lj3lHoFV0aXpgPmjfIvAjJHu fHkXZAQAH8w0u9bgJqRn703+A4NPfLopnjegyhlNi7fQ3cMQV1H7Oj7WrB/pCcprx+1u/6Uq oTtDwWh1U5uVthVAI0QojpNWR08zABDX19TlGtVoeygaQV3CAEolxTiYQtCfVavUzUplCZ/t 3v4YiRov+NylflJd+1akyOs1IAgARf444BnoH1fotkpfXNOpp9wUXXwsQcFRdP7vpMkSCkc0 sxPNTVX3ei0QImp4NsrFdaep7LV3zEb3wkAp6KE5Qno4hVVEypULbvB0G6twNZbeRfcs2Rjp jnPb2fofvg2WhAKB20dnRfIfK8OKTD/P+JDcauJANjmekM7BTQRaJxH+ARAApPwkbOTChAQu jMvteb/xcwuL5JZElmLxIqvJhqybV7JknM+3ATyN0CTYQFvPTgIrhpk4zSn0A6pEePdK8mKK 5/aHyd7pr7rLEi1sI/X3UE8ld/E83MExksKrYbs0UX1wSQwYXU6g64KicnuP2Abqg+8wrQ18 1nPcZci9jJI75XVPnTdUpZD5aaQWGp7IJ06NTbiOk30I50ORfulgKoe4m3UfsMALFxIx3pJk oy76xC2tjxYGf+4Uq1M0iK3Wy655GrcwXq/5ieODNUcAZzvK5hsUVRodBq0Lq3g1ivQF4ba7 RQayDzlW6XgoeU49xnCr9XdZYnTnj4iaPmr2NtY6AacBwRz+bJsyugeSyGgHsnVGyUSMk8YN wZHvUykMjH21LLzIUX5NFlcumLUXDOECELCJwewui4W81sI5Sq/WDJet+iJwwylUX22TSulG VwDS+j66TLZpk1hEwPanGLwFBSosafqSNBMDVWegKWvZZVyoNHIaaQbrTIoAwuAGvdVncSQz ttC6KkaFlAtlZt3+eUFWlMUOQ9jxQKTWymyliWKrx+S6O1cr4hwVRbg7RQkpfA8E2Loa13oO vRSQy/M2YBRZzRecTKY6nslJo6FWTftpGO7cNcvbmQ6I++5cBG1B1eNy2RFGJUzGh1vlYo51 pdfSg0U1oPHBPCHNvPYCJ7UAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBDVVI9O49O/JYJ2+9GVhjBh/aBSp BQJaJxH+AhsMBQkJZgGAAAoJEGVhjBh/aBSpAw0P/1tEcEaZUO1uLenNtqysi3mQ6qAHYALR Df3p2z/RBKRVx0DJlzDfDvJ2R/GRwoo+vyCviecuG2RNKmJbf1vSm/QTtbQMUjwut9mx6KCY CyKwniqdhaMBmjCfV2DB2MxxZLYMtDfx/2mY7vzAci7AkjC+RkSUByMEOkyscUydKC/ETdf9 tvI8GhTY/8Q7JSylS3lQA5pMUHiIf+KpSmqKZeBPkGc7nSKM1w1UKUvFAsyyVsiG6A/hWrTr 7tTQAl7YfjtOGE8n4IKGktvrT99bbh9wdWKZ5FdHUN9hx2Q8VP8+0lR1CH2laVFbEwCOv1vM W4cgQDLxwwpo1iOTdHBVtQDxlQ9hPMKVlB1KP9KjchxuiLc24wLmCjP3pDMml4LQxOYB34Eq cgPZ3uHvJZG309sb2wTMTWaXobWNI++ZrsRD5GTmuzF3kkx3krtrq6HI5NSaemxK6MTDTjDN Rj/OwTl0yU35eJXuuryB20GFOSUsxiw00I2hMGQ1Cy9L/+IW6Dvotd8O3LmKh2tFArzXaKLx /rZyGNurS/Go5YjHp8wdJOs7Ka2p1U31js24PMWO6hf6hIiY2WRUsnE6xZNhvBTgKOY6u0KT V6hTevFqEw7OAZDCWUoE2Ob2/oHGZCCMW5SLAMgp7eihF0kGf2S2CmpIFYXGb61hAD8SqSY7 Fn7V Message-ID: <370bfde8-8318-73de-3a3a-c70709787b8e@mozilla.com> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 12:52:16 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <55ac5694-a235-34b4-a49f-9fe9deb350f7@mozilla.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [urn] [Marketing Mail] Re: New Version Notification for draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03.txt (Was Re: URN expert review of 'etsi' NID) X-BeenThere: urn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Revisions to URN RFCs List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2018 18:52:23 -0000 Hi all, Yesterday Mahesh submitted a revised I-D: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-04 Although I'd prefer to see more detail in the syntax description (which exists in documentation on the ETSI site), as far as I can see all issues have been addressed and this can move forward. Peter On 8/14/18 1:20 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > During discussion with IANA, Lars noticed that the "Security and > Privacy" section of the template says: > > If an namespace is URN-equivalent to another namespace used by the > device, as per the rules specified in Section 3.1 of URNs [RFC8141], > Section 6.1 of URI Generic Syntax [RFC3986], and the lexical rules > specified in this document, the request is rejected. > > It would be helpful to clarify what kind of request is involved here > (presumably a configuration or management request using YANG, but let's > make that explicit). > > Also, the "Purpose" section says "the URN" in two places, but that > should be "the URN namespace". > > The "Declaration of syntactic structure" section doesn't seem to reflect > the structure of the examples (e.g., "urn:etsi:yang:etsi-services"). Do > you foresee having additional "sub-identifiers" other than "yang"? > > Finally, draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03 uses the old template from RFC 3406, > but IANA requires that registrations use the new template from RFC 8141. > > Thanks! > > Peter > > On 6/14/18 9:22 AM, Svensson, Lars wrote: >> Apart from what Peter already said, I have no further comments on this draft, as far as I'm concerned we're ready to proceed. >> >> Best, >> >> Lars >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: urn [mailto:urn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter Saint-Andre >>> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 2:57 AM >>> To: urn@ietf.org >>> Subject: [Marketing Mail] Re: [urn] New Version Notification for draft-mahesh-etsi- >>> urn-03.txt (Was Re: URN expert review of 'etsi' NID) >>> >>> Thanks, Mahesh, that is helpful. >>> >>> I'm still not sure if we want to make a normative reference to RFC 1737 >>> (an Informational RFC from 1994) in the Security Considerations section; >>> do you feel that it discusses issues that we left out of RFC 8141? >>> >>> Other than that, the document looks ready to proceed. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> On 6/13/18 5:18 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: >>>> ETSI has now published a web page that is publicly available and >>>> describes the two questions outlined below. Please let us know if there >>>> are any questions. >>>> >>>> https://portal.etsi.org/PNNS/GenericAllocation/ETSIURNNamespace.aspx >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> On Jun 8, 2018, at 8:18 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> The following update to the draft addresses the comments raised as >>>>> part of expert review. The remaining action items are for us to make >>>>> available a public version of the ancillary document, whose URL was >>>>> provided in the draft, that describes: >>>>> >>>>> - the NSS namespace and how it will be allocated by ETSI >>>>> - how a separate “root” namespace under the allocated URN can be used >>>>> for experimental namespaces. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> --------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> A new version of I-D, draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03.txt >>>>> has been successfully submitted by Mahesh Jethanandani and posted to the >>>>> IETF repository. >>>>> >>>>> Name:draft-mahesh-etsi-urn >>>>> Revision:03 >>>>> Title:URN Namespace for ETSI Documents >>>>> Document date:2018-06-08 >>>>> Group:Individual Submission >>>>> Pages:6 >>>>> URL: >>>>>            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03.txt >>>>> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn/ >>>>> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03 >>>>> Htmlized: >>>>>       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mahesh-etsi-urn >>>>> Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-03 >>>>> >>>>> Abstract: >>>>>   This document describes the Namespace Identifier (NID) 'etsi' for >>>>>   Uniform Resource Names (URNs) used to identify resources published by >>>>>   European Telecommunications Standards Institute (http://etsi.org). >>>>>   ETSI specifies and manages resources that utilize this URN >>>>>   identification model.  Management activities for these and other >>>>>   resources types are handled by the manager of the ETSI Protocol >>>>>   Naming and Numbering Service (PNNS). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>>> submission >>>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> The IETF Secretariat >>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 7, 2018, at 6:53 PM, Dale R. Worley >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Comments on draft-mahesh-etsi-urn-02 >>>>>> >>>>>>   1.1.  Terminology >>>>>> >>>>>>       | PNNS    | Protocol Name and Numbering Service             | >>>>>> >>>>>> It would be helpful to state that PNNS is an ETSI function: >>>>>> >>>>>>       | PNNS    | ETSI Protocol Name and Numbering Service        | >>>>>> >>>>>>   Declaration of syntactic structure: >>>>>> >>>>>>      The syntax of namespace specific strings for the 'etsi' namespace >>>>>>      is in Uniform Resource Names (URNs) [RFC8141]. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is completely legitimate, but it is not satisfying.  If ETSI has >>>>>> plans for how it will organize the space of NSSs, it would be nice to >>>>>> describe them here. >>>>>> >>>>>>   Relevant ancillary documentation: >>>>>> >>>>>>      ETSI publishes information regarding the registered resources in >>>>>>      the ETSI URN Namespace (EUN) registry >>>>>>      (https://portal.etsi.org/PNNS/GenericAllocation/ >>>>>>      ETSIURNNamespace.aspx). >>>>>> >>>>>> It's good that ETSI gives the URL of its URN registry; many other >>>>>> organizations do not.  However, I notice that that URL is >>>>>> password-protected.  It would be much better for the community if the >>>>>> registry was readable by the world, since there is no stated intention >>>>>> that etsi URNs are used only within a closed community. >>>>>> >>>>>>   Identifier uniqueness considerations: >>>>>> >>>>>>      [...]  ETSI is expected to guarantee the uniqueness [...] >>>>>> >>>>>> Formally, this registration is being submitted by ETSI, so it reads >>>>>> oddly for ETSI to say "ETSI is expected...".   Much better would be >>>>>> "ETSI will...". >>>>>> >>>>>> Similarly, "ETSI could..." is used where it is more natural to say "ETSI >>>>>> may...". >>>>>> >>>>>>      Note that using experimental types may create >>>>>>      collision as multiple users may use the same values for different >>>>>>      resources and specific strings. >>>>>> >>>>>> It would be very helpful if the registration stated how the ETSI >>>>>> registry will make clear how to recognize experimental URIs within the >>>>>> etsi namespace. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dale >>>>> >>>>> Mahesh Jethanandani >>>>> mjethanandani@gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> urn mailing list >>>> urn@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/urn >>>> >> > From nobody Wed Oct 24 12:41:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: urn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8162412DDA3 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2018 12:41:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com 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